September 30, 2025 • 26 mins
For women with ADHD, anger doesn’t always come out as yelling. It often hides in plain sight. Rage leaks out through tears, silence, shutdowns, guilt, or even endless “rage cleaning.” In this episode of Angry on the Inside, Jess and Jeannine break down why so many late-diagnosed women were taught that anger is unsafe, how that message turns rage inward, and the toll it takes on our bodies and relationships.
They call out the lies behind “good girls don’t get mad,” unpack the shame cycle, and dig into the burnout, exhaustion, and physical symptoms that follow when anger gets buried instead of expressed. You’ll hear real talk about the ways ADHD rage shows up crying in fury, shutting down mid-argument, replaying fights for days in our minds, or feeling that buzzing intensity under your skin.
Most importantly, Jess and Jeannine share how to start reframing anger as information, finding outlets that actually release it, and modeling healthier expressions of rage for the next generation of ADHD women. This isn’t about silencing anger, it’s about finally letting it breathe.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Jessica (00:00)ADHD rage in women doesn't always explode. There's a better chance it'll leak.
(00:01):
Jeannine Thill (00:05)we end up crying or yelling or both.
Jessica (00:07)Not because we're sad, but because we were trained that anger isn't safe.
Jeannine Thill (00:12)then comes the pity, which is the last thing we want. We don't want to be comforted. We want to express our anger without shame or fear of being discarded.
Jessica (00:19)Instead, we fawn, go quiet, or even shut completely down.
Jeannine Thill (00:24)and end up exactly where the podcast lives. angry on the inside.
Jessica (00:27)Welcome back. I'm Jess.
Jeannine Thill (00:29)and I'm Janine.
Jessica (00:30)Two mics, one mission, telling the truth about ADHD rage.
Jeannine Thill (00:34)where anger gets airtime without apology.
Jessica (00:36)a reminder, we're not doctors, therapists or psychologists.
Jeannine Thill (00:41)We are certified ADHD coaches, but this podcast isn't coaching.
Jessica (00:45)It's too late diagnosed women telling the truth about what we know and what we've lived.
Jeannine Thill (00:45)too late.
In what too many of us have had to figure out the hard way. Take what resonates, laugh with us, rage with us, and know you're not alone.
Jessica (00:59)ADHD rage in women is an intense, fast-rising wave of anger that feels overwhelming
Jeannine Thill (01:05)But underneath, it's the result of years of unprocessed frustration, masking, and unmet needs.
Jessica (01:10)Because women are taught that anger isn't acceptable, often shows up differently through tears, silence, or shutdowns.
Jeannine Thill (01:17)Or by turning the anger inward rather than letting it out with open yelling.
Jessica (01:21)when we're talking about ADHD rage and saying that we are too emotional, I think that's an interesting way to start. The bulk of us, especially late diagnosed women, spent a large amount of time in their life being told that they are too emotional, over emotional, too emotional, too sensitive. We take everything too personally. And that's probably...
the case in some ways, but there's reasoning behind it. And I think that reasoning is important. Knowing the reasoning now will help save our daughters later to keep them from making the same mistakes that we have.
Jeannine Thill (01:57)if we're late diagnosed, all that time we spent not knowing what was going on, that frustration of not understanding what was going on inside of us and knowing we were feeling something, whether it was anger or sadness, but the outside world telling us, no, you you're too emotional, you're wrong.
(00:22):
Jessica (02:13)we're both, trying to find words to talk about how we deal with anger, which is rather ironic considering that's the problem we're having is that none of us deal with anger properly and it sits and it, it boils over or it turns inside.
That paradigm shift happens between the ages of 10 to 14.
when we're going through puberty. And that's when a lot of these emotions become internal. And these are the things we want to look out for for our daughters. Are they crying? Are they constantly crying? Are they actually sad? It's okay to ask your daughter, are you sad or are you mad? Because I will tell you one of the worst things is crying because you are so angry and someone coming up to you and telling you to smile.
Jeannine Thill (02:55)The dreaded, you should smile. Yes. Smile more. Just smile more. People would like you too if you smiled more.
Jessica (02:57)Yeah, just smile. And
Isn't that a wonderful line?
Jeannine Thill (03:03)Yeah. Yeah.
that's so true especially if your daughter's diagnosed young, is that feeling like, you know, she must be dealing with it better or she's getting better or her ADHD is getting better because it but instead of having that on the
Instead of that anger, her being upset or frustrated or mad, it's no longer on the outside. It now has gone internalized. So it's still there. It's that They've just learned. They've heard that message. yeah. You know, nice girls don't get angry. Nice girls smile. So it's all still there. They have just learned how to bury it, which is actually heartbreaking to me because I think there are a lot of girls that people stop thinking they need support or help,
Jessica (03:39)Exactly. It is.
Jeannine Thill (03:45)Suddenly on the outside they look like they're, quote unquote better. really it's probably just gotten worse. It's just now all underground and turned inward.
Jessica (03:53)excellent point that this is the time where it appears that girls with ADHD need less support. And it's really when they need more. And this is also a time where mothers tend to back off quite a bit and say, ⁓ she's just going through puberty or you know how this goes. We need to check in with our daughters. It's important because
Again, the manifestation of ADHD rage in women most oftentimes is tears, but it can also be silence. It can be a fawn response. These are very dangerous things. If we are pushed into silence by our anger, we have essentially become nonverbal. You have reached a point where you cannot either make complete sentences.
talk as much as you normally would you're giving one word answers or you completely stop talking that is a serious cost on your nervous system and our nervous system is the main priority that is our main focus no matter what we're talking about ADHD locks into that nervous system the autonomic nervous system which is the one that controls everything else in your body literally
Jeannine Thill (04:47)time.
it's still there, That anger though is still there. since we're not verbalizing it, and it's just sitting inside of us, you will see that, girls, teenage girls with ADHD have higher rates of self-harm, higher rates of substance abuses.
Jessica (05:06)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (05:18)The anger finds a way to come out. The problem is, is the way it does come out is very unhealthy. It's not talked out. It's not thought through. It's not explained.
Jessica (05:28)the big question is, when that rage goes inside, how will it manifest? How will it manifest in our young girls and these newer generations? That's scary. It's scary for not just moms, but the aunts and the grandmothers and the sisters We are a community.
We can all be the type that say, we do better talking with men or we have more guy friends or whatever else, but we really are all connected and we have to make sure that we are keeping an eye out for these younger generations because you don't realize how much you can truly help them. Yes, there's an increase in self harm and there's an increase in eating disorders and different things like that. There's also an increase in hypersexuality.
And there's an increase in, the possibility of assault towards these girls
(00:43):
Jeannine Thill (06:18)I love what you're saying. And I'm just thinking, is that a whole nother podcast? Is that a whole nother episode about the girl?
Jessica (06:21)Mm.
It is. It is.
Jeannine Thill (06:26)I think it's good that not only we're talking about our daughters, but I think you can start to see it in yourself. I remember reading about all this stuff about like what it's like for girls and besides seeing it and my daughter of seeing it me. Like, that's what I experienced when I was a teenager. So maybe that's a whole nother podcast. I don't know what you think.
Jessica (06:39)right?
I
I wrote down walking statistics, young girls.
Jeannine Thill (06:45)we showed all these signs when we were teenagers.
Jessica (06:48)I always felt was that I was a walking autistic. I was from a divorced home. I didn't see my dad very often. So I had daddy issues. I was hypersexual.
Jeannine Thill (06:56)You're more statistically relevant than me, gosh darn it.
Jessica (06:59)Not in good way.
Jeannine Thill (07:00)So good girls don't get mad, right? That's the message from day one. We're told to be nice and to smile.
Jessica (07:06)Exactly. So we turn that anger in on ourselves and it looks like tears or guilt instead of rage. the guilt factor is also one of those things that just floors me. I know that I had guilt. I will get angry. I will get mad. I'll reach a point where I blow up and then I am back apologizing for blowing up when really I could have blown up 15 or 20 times before that. And I get in my head, well,
I held it in. Do you ever have that issue where you're ready to freak out, but it's 15 different issues that have happened and the fight you're having is only on one issue, now I can bring them up because I've reached like that, that maximum level. it's like, you have to reach like a certain pinnacle, In your mind, like that tank has to be completely full before you can let all the gas out.
you feel guilty because you're like, I should have said
something before and then I didn't say anything and it just spirals.
Jeannine Thill (07:55)then the person who's receiving or witnessing receiving, however you want to put it, that anger is looking at you like, why are you upset about this little thing? Because then that's when you're too emotional. You're too easily upset. What's your problem? And you can't say, yeah, because I've been frustrated about all these other things that I never spoke up. this is the straw that broke the camel's back. And it might look really minor.
Jessica (08:06)Right. going to say.
Jeannine Thill (08:18)to the person on, you know, the other person, but to you it's not.
Jessica (08:22)And maybe that is a direction to heal When we are screaming and flipping out and we can't catch our breath and everything's just coming out at once the person that we're yelling at, they aren't seeing the 15, 20 threads tied to this one little incident.
if we do learn to take the time to say, yeah, I am flipping out completely, but it's because I'm thinking of these 20 things. Maybe that's part of the healing process.
(01:04):
Jeannine Thill (08:44)Yeah. Well, and I think at least I know have known for me in those moments have come where I've just exploded is I do think why, did this one thing set me off? And so I'm even surprised by it. feels like it's almost this out of body experience of suddenly I am so angry and all of this is coming out and I'm almost just as surprised as the other person because I've just tried to bury all those other things.
Those are their 15 things that I didn't speak up about. I didn't, talk about and so it's almost just as surprising and upsetting to me as I think as it is to the other person.
Jessica (09:22)I think this is also a situation where women will find themselves saying, you know, I rarely get angry, but when I do.
Jeannine Thill (09:29)Mm-hmm.
Jessica (09:30)These are the types of things we say
that should be some red flags getting thrown up in the air. I really get angry, but when I do, I can remember every time I've ever gotten so angry that I said something. You shouldn't have to have that monumentous moment in your head because you're flipping out. And remember, that's the one time you got mad. Getting frustrated and letting off steam and being able to at least speak directly.
Those are all normal things. Those are all things that are absolutely normal that there doesn't have to be shame about. And in healthy relationships,
Jeannine Thill (09:57)Yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be an event.
It doesn't have to be an event for sure.
Jessica (10:05)agreed.
Here's the kicker. If you can't let anger out, it will eat you from the inside out. And that might sound dramatic.
Jeannine Thill (10:14)Yeah, and suddenly...
and suddenly you're not just angry, you're exhausted, resentful, and maybe you even made yourself sick.
Jessica (10:21)ADHD burnout, autistic burnout, neurodiverse burnout is much different than the standard.
For the ADHD community, when we start to experience burnout, the exhaustion doesn't go away. Typically, to heal from burnout at its full extent can take up to two years because of the effects that it has on your mind, your body,
Jeannine Thill (10:27)Okay, broke up.
Jessica (10:44)and primarily your nervous system.
Jeannine Thill (10:46)So how many times have we been told we're hormonal or irrational when really we're just angry?
Jessica (10:52)⁓ the hormonal, that one gets me every time. Or irrational. What's the fastest way to piss a woman off? Tell her she's hormonal or irrational. Or tell her to calm down. hormones are such a complete misunderstanding from most of the population and what a hormone actually is. it is truly more than just estrogen and testosterone.
Jeannine Thill (10:55)I'm
(01:25):
tell her to be a hood. Yeah, because we're the only ones who have hormones. Yeah,
Jessica (11:13)But that is an in-depth discussion for a different day.
Jeannine Thill (11:16)Yeah.
Jessica (11:18)Tears, migraines, going silent. That's rage showing up sideways.
And I love that line that it shows up sideways because it's really like to the left. What's adjacent? What's adjacent to my anger, right? I can't feel this anger. So I look to the left or I look to the right and what's there. Cause that's what I'm going to grab onto next.
Jeannine Thill (11:37)Exactly.
And I got nothing else to say on that.
Jessica (11:39)me either. So stop telling women to calm down. What we need are ways to let the anger out without guilt.
Jeannine Thill (11:47)Processing anger isn't about control. It's about finding a release that doesn't leave you drowning in shame.
Jessica (11:53)that release can look messy and that's still healthier than internalizing. what are those messy releases?
the release looks messy and that's still healthier than internalizing. that release means that you are creating a space where that rage is acknowledged. But we have to take it one step further. We are acknowledging the fact that we have this internal rage. We are acknowledging the fact that we are upset and we are angry and we do not understand how to release this anger. So we must also take the steps to understand it.
and take the steps to recognize a healthy outlet instead of stuffing it back inside, which so many of us do. what are you doing to stuff that rage back inside? How are you holding it? How do you feel the next day, the next month? Are you ruminating about this shit that you're just pushing back inside of you? How is that going to show up for you and your health? How is that going to make your ADHD rage show up for you?
For me, the hardest times was in my thirties, which was right around that hormonal shift into paramedic pause, where I had no idea what was going on with me. And they kept putting me on SSRIs and telling me I was having anxiety and that I was depressed. And I felt like I was going crazy. I was crying at the drop of a hat. There didn't have to be any reason.
Jessica (13:15)⁓
Jeannine Thill (13:15)anger is definitely information. I've started to think of my anger as a compass. it tells me when something's off.
Jessica (13:21)If you're angry, it's usually because something matters deeply to you. There are boundaries that have been crossed, or there is an unmet need or an injustice, but there is some underlying reason.
Jeannine Thill (13:32)anger, it's not a weakness, but you think of it as data. know, something's telling you that something's off.
Jessica (13:39)we have to look at societally how we are raised as women and how anger and women coincide together, How many boundaries do we allow to be crossed? What do we tolerate in our daily lives that we should not be tolerating?
boundaries that are continuously crossed and yet we don't do anything about it? they just continue to snowball into these horrible events that happen to us as women, us as a community. There's a lot to it. And this is where we talk about stopping and recognizing what anger is, stopping and understanding where the anger is coming from. Because Janine is 100 % correct.
It is data. How do we look at it as data?
Anger is data. Reframing it as a guide instead of a flaw will change everything for you. It will completely turn your perspective in a different direction as to these feelings that you're having
(01:46):
Jeannine Thill (14:37)Thank
learning how to be angry is skill set. I think is actually a really good takeaway.
And for women, especially with ADHD, it's a skill no one ever taught us.
Jessica (14:48)It's interesting to try to look at modern expressions of being able to release anger. guys, they play rough, they have adrenaline seeking hobbies.
they're taught to be able to wrestle around and then 10 minutes later be best friends again, For us, any acts of anger, a lot of times we consider, acts of violence. there is a difference between the two, a very stark difference between the two of anger and violence. And I think that's something that women tend to mix together because there are so much violence towards women and anger towards women But
There are other perspectives to take it What are ways that we can get our anger out? there's different type of contact sports. A lot of women, young and old, who were in contact sports throughout their lives, they know how to get rough and they know how to get angry, but they also understand how to interact with other women. These are amazing social skills.
Contact sports have results for women, their confidence, their understanding of their bodies and their understanding of their emotions, whether they are intense, angry
learning how to regulate your nervous system. Roller derby, which I know sounds funny, but there are a lot of women's roller derby leagues they are awesome. Those are some awesome hardcore chicks. you don't have to be in physical contact to get that angry out. There are anger workouts. There's primal scream therapy.
Jeannine Thill (16:02)roller derby. That'd be fun. are.
learning how to even communicate our anger. I mean, I know that's always been a struggle for me, especially when it's around expressing an unmet need
So really just assertiveness classes. I have a friend who does improv and she said it's really helped her actually emotionally too because she can stay in the moment. I was like, that's interesting. learning negotiation skills.
which we could go on and on about how women are never taught how to negotiate. just learning how to communicate what's inside, being comfortable with that and finding the right words is so important.
Jessica (16:51)I what I'm hearing is communicating in the moment, That seems to be the key. whether it's through the improv or through negotiations and debating.
Jeannine Thill (16:54)and right here that seems to be
it's dealing with being flooded. when all those emotions have just taken over get yourself on top of those emotions, being able to express them.
I think the communication, know, that piece is really important when we start talking about relationships and probably more those intimate relationships, whether it could be a partner, could also be a child, you know, a friend, a parent, a sibling. But I think especially if we talk about like a romantic partnership of...
Helping them be aware that expressing your anger might be difficult for you and to make sure that they can I'm gonna say meet your energy, but almost be able to accept your energy to be able to accept When you are angry and giving you the space to be able to express it and to feel comfortable with it
Jessica (17:44)Yes, you are right. Sometimes women need that. And if we get it a little more often, our confidence will grow and we will be more comfortable in having extended conversations
Jeannine Thill (17:53)Yeah.
Jessica (17:56)We as families and mothers and aunts and all these, you know, as women, we're trying to understand what does exacerbate this anger, what does trigger this anger, what makes it overflow, right? What makes the damn break? Because we're holding it in, because we're not recognizing what it is. And there are so many different things that can be done. Rage journaling.
you can never have enough journals. And if it's a case that you journal in it two times and then you never ever do it again and you throw it away 10 years later, it still helped for those two times that you used it. So do it.
(02:07):
Jeannine Thill (18:19)Never.
Yeah, yeah.
the famous therapy of writing a letter, but never sending it of just getting all of it out, just getting it all on paper. especially if you're addressing it specifically to the person. I know I've used that numerous times and it is really, I know, I have found it very beneficial.
Jessica (18:40)Yes.
it is extremely beneficial. especially in trauma survivors, they will say they have difficulties in verbalizing. And by verbalizing the situations, it actually extends the trauma instead, writing it down is an outlet and allows your brain to process that emotion get it down and get it out,
Primary source getting it out you have to get it out of your body because it will make you physically sick and it comes in a hundred different ways It comes in the headache. in the nausea. exhaustion, a weakened immune system There are so many ways that it can show up, but it will show up
We have women's groups modeling healthy anger for the next generation. We have the younger generation who teach us more than what any of us It's really important that we also give them their props, right? Because they are experiencing these new set of setting their boundaries and with each other and the way that they interact with each other. It might be slightly different when they interact with us, but when they're interacting with their own generation.
A lot of them, know how to put their foot down. A lot of women know where to lay those lines down and how to hold them. And that is extraordinary. And it will help.
Jeannine Thill (20:05)Yeah, that is so true.
Jessica (20:07)now it's time for our fun new segment.
Jeannine Thill (20:09)Here's where we confess the stuff we thought everybody did. Turns out, nope.
Jessica (20:13)That's awesome. Let's talk about the moments ADHD pulled the rug out from under our definition of normal.
Jeannine Thill (20:19)Because sometimes the weirdest thing isn't us, it's realizing how much we've been carrying.
Jessica (20:24)thinking it's normal to cry every time you're angry because that's the only safe outlet you were taught? That's not normal.
Jeannine Thill (20:31)What? It's not? I thought it was.
Believing that everyone replays angry moments in their heads for days or even for weeks afterwards, unable to let it go.
Jessica (20:40)how old I was when I realized that one was not normal. That was something like that I still do. Do you ever talk in front of the mirror? you get so intense about it like you're talking in the mirror like you're having a conversation
Jeannine Thill (20:51)I'll talk out loud to myself about it.
Jessica (20:52)Yeah.
Jeannine Thill (20:53)I still think other people do it. They just don't admit to it.
Jessica (20:56)Assuming it's normal to feel physically hot, shaky, or like your skin is buzzing every time you get upset. So it's not normal to feel like you're vibrating when you're holding in your internal anger.
(02:28):
Jeannine Thill (21:06)Hmm. That's interesting. Yeah. Wonder what that's like. Thinking that shutting down mid-argument and going completely silent is just a personality trait.
Jessica (21:15)Isn't that funny? That we can so easily push that off for ourselves assume that we're supposed to be taking on the responsibility of all this. But yet if somebody else did it, we would be so worried. We'd be like, my goodness, my goodness. But for us, we're just like, it must just be my personality.
Jeannine Thill (21:30)I know. I should work on that.
Jessica (21:32)Believing everyone feels instant guilt immediately after expressing anger, no matter how justified it was. So people can get angry and not feel like shit about it.
Jeannine Thill (21:41)See, I don't know. That's hard to believe. How could you not? You just can't imagine what that would be like. It's just to release it and be okay with it.
Jessica (21:51)Right? Catch and release, catch and release.
Jeannine Thill (21:53)Oh,
Can't imagine. Assuming rage cleaning or other destructive chores is how everyone vents. Yeah, but at least your house is clean afterwards.
Jessica (22:02)I love a good rage clean. Do you? I don't know. When I was in my twenties, that was like the only way I could clean my house. That or if somebody called and said they were on their way over.
Jeannine Thill (22:03)So is it really that bad? No.
And, oh my God, my mom taught me that. she used to joke about having, you have people over just so you make sure you clean your house. And I swear I used to do that. cleaning out things like cleaning out a closet or anything With some good angry music in the background. It's not healthy, but it's productive.
Jessica (22:22)Okay.
Well, it's
when I'm doing the rage cleaning, but it's like I'm organizing something. I like to call that the purge. God only knows what's getting thrown out, but it's happening.
Jeannine Thill (22:30)but it's like I'm walking into something.
Ooh, that was...
Yeah, that's not bad.
anger isn't the enemy, it's the shame that follows that is.
Jessica (22:43)Expressing anger differently isn't just about us. It's about modeling something healthier for our next generations. I know we've mentioned the younger generations multiple times here, but early help is what makes so much of what we deal with with late diagnosis disappear. Had we had the foundation and the help the diagnosis is early,
the environments that we needed, it would have made a difference. It does make a difference. It doesn't fix ADHD. There is no fix to ADHD. And I know there's a lot out there right now that's saying there is. It's not a fix, but it is a measure to allow someone to be able to control and regulate their nervous system, their thoughts.
their feelings, their anger. these are the things that can literally save people. Understanding how to handle your anger, understanding how to process, these can be the differences between somebody jumping out of their car in a road rage incident and ruining more than one life, you can say, that's not true. But it is, it is.
(02:49):
there comes a point where your nervous system can no longer take things. And I know that that type of talk is an ultimate extreme, but it really is the reason why we want to focus on the younger generations and we want to show up for them and show that we can learn and what we can do and what we can change while we are standing here. Even though we didn't have that help, don't
be pissed because you didn't have that help and choose to withhold help from others because you didn't get it in the first place.
Jeannine Thill (24:18)excellent point. Somehow the older generations sometimes tend to do that. But I think also not just for the younger generations, but for ourselves as well, is that self-compassion, that understanding, all of that that we didn't get We have the opportunity to give that to ourselves now, is to give ourselves grace, compassion, and understanding.
Jessica (24:38)we have so many of us and so much access to each other now that maybe we don't realize because we've spent a lifetime feeling so alone and so secluded and preferring to be alone. It is a self survival reaction because we are not creatures who are meant to be completely and utterly alone, but those who like to be alone typically
It's because they have been trained that that is the safest place to be is alone. That is the calmest place to be is when you are alone. And there's nothing wrong with being alone and with needing alone time, because that is part of regulating your nervous system. But it's also important to remember that you are not alone. And there are so many of us here who need to know and understand and
Jeannine Thill (25:25)There are so many of us here. ⁓
Jessica (25:31)at least experience visually or verbally the things that each of us have gone through.
Jeannine Thill (25:38)Yeah, that is so true. And that's why we're here.
Jessica (25:41)It is because you're not alone.
Jeannine Thill (25:43)remember your anger is valid. You're not broken.
Jessica (25:46)Is that going to be our new outro?
Jeannine Thill (25:46)mean.
No, I thought it was gonna just be like, thanks for listening.
Jessica (25:52)How about unfinished outro, fully felt rage?
Jeannine Thill (25:55)How about outro pending? Anger ongoing?
Jessica (25:58)Ooh, I do like that.
Jeannine Thill (26:01)How about, we may not have an outro, but we've got each other.
Jessica (26:05)I got you babe.
Jeannine Thill (26:05)I got you. Okay, till next time.
Jessica (26:09)Thanks again for listening to Angry on the Inside. Remember, you're not alone. We are here.
Jessica (00:00)ADHD rage in women doesn't always explode. There's a better chance it'll leak.
(00:01):
Jeannine Thill (00:05)we end up crying or yelling or both.
Jessica (00:07)Not because we're sad, but because we were trained that anger isn't safe.
Jeannine Thill (00:12)then comes the pity, which is the last thing we want. We don't want to be comforted. We want to express our anger without shame or fear of being discarded.
Jessica (00:19)Instead, we fawn, go quiet, or even shut completely down.
Jeannine Thill (00:24)and end up exactly where the podcast lives. angry on the inside.
Jessica (00:27)Welcome back. I'm Jess.
Jeannine Thill (00:29)and I'm Janine.
Jessica (00:30)Two mics, one mission, telling the truth about ADHD rage.
Jeannine Thill (00:34)where anger gets airtime without apology.
Jessica (00:36)a reminder, we're not doctors, therapists or psychologists.
Jeannine Thill (00:41)We are certified ADHD coaches, but this podcast isn't coaching.
Jessica (00:45)It's too late diagnosed women telling the truth about what we know and what we've lived.
Jeannine Thill (00:45)too late.
In what too many of us have had to figure out the hard way. Take what resonates, laugh with us, rage with us, and know you're not alone.
Jessica (00:59)ADHD rage in women is an intense, fast-rising wave of anger that feels overwhelming
Jeannine Thill (01:05)But underneath, it's the result of years of unprocessed frustration, masking, and unmet needs.
Jessica (01:10)Because women are taught that anger isn't acceptable, often shows up differently through tears, silence, or shutdowns.
Jeannine Thill (01:17)Or by turning the anger inward rather than letting it out with open yelling.
Jessica (01:21)when we're talking about ADHD rage and saying that we are too emotional, I think that's an interesting way to start. The bulk of us, especially late diagnosed women, spent a large amount of time in their life being told that they are too emotional, over emotional, too emotional, too sensitive. We take everything too personally. And that's probably...
the case in some ways, but there's reasoning behind it. And I think that reasoning is important. Knowing the reasoning now will help save our daughters later to keep them from making the same mistakes that we have.
Jeannine Thill (01:57)if we're late diagnosed, all that time we spent not knowing what was going on, that frustration of not understanding what was going on inside of us and knowing we were feeling something, whether it was anger or sadness, but the outside world telling us, no, you you're too emotional, you're wrong.
(00:22):
Jessica (02:13)we're both, trying to find words to talk about how we deal with anger, which is rather ironic considering that's the problem we're having is that none of us deal with anger properly and it sits and it, it boils over or it turns inside.
That paradigm shift happens between the ages of 10 to 14.
when we're going through puberty. And that's when a lot of these emotions become internal. And these are the things we want to look out for for our daughters. Are they crying? Are they constantly crying? Are they actually sad? It's okay to ask your daughter, are you sad or are you mad? Because I will tell you one of the worst things is crying because you are so angry and someone coming up to you and telling you to smile.
Jeannine Thill (02:55)The dreaded, you should smile. Yes. Smile more. Just smile more. People would like you too if you smiled more.
Jessica (02:57)Yeah, just smile. And
Isn't that a wonderful line?
Jeannine Thill (03:03)Yeah. Yeah.
that's so true especially if your daughter's diagnosed young, is that feeling like, you know, she must be dealing with it better or she's getting better or her ADHD is getting better because it but instead of having that on the
Instead of that anger, her being upset or frustrated or mad, it's no longer on the outside. It now has gone internalized. So it's still there. It's that They've just learned. They've heard that message. yeah. You know, nice girls don't get angry. Nice girls smile. So it's all still there. They have just learned how to bury it, which is actually heartbreaking to me because I think there are a lot of girls that people stop thinking they need support or help,
Jessica (03:39)Exactly. It is.
Jeannine Thill (03:45)Suddenly on the outside they look like they're, quote unquote better. really it's probably just gotten worse. It's just now all underground and turned inward.
Jessica (03:53)excellent point that this is the time where it appears that girls with ADHD need less support. And it's really when they need more. And this is also a time where mothers tend to back off quite a bit and say, ⁓ she's just going through puberty or you know how this goes. We need to check in with our daughters. It's important because
Again, the manifestation of ADHD rage in women most oftentimes is tears, but it can also be silence. It can be a fawn response. These are very dangerous things. If we are pushed into silence by our anger, we have essentially become nonverbal. You have reached a point where you cannot either make complete sentences.
talk as much as you normally would you're giving one word answers or you completely stop talking that is a serious cost on your nervous system and our nervous system is the main priority that is our main focus no matter what we're talking about ADHD locks into that nervous system the autonomic nervous system which is the one that controls everything else in your body literally
Jeannine Thill (04:47)time.
it's still there, That anger though is still there. since we're not verbalizing it, and it's just sitting inside of us, you will see that, girls, teenage girls with ADHD have higher rates of self-harm, higher rates of substance abuses.
Jessica (05:06)Mm-hmm.
Jeannine Thill (05:18)The anger finds a way to come out. The problem is, is the way it does come out is very unhealthy. It's not talked out. It's not thought through. It's not explained.
Jessica (05:28)the big question is, when that rage goes inside, how will it manifest? How will it manifest in our young girls and these newer generations? That's scary. It's scary for not just moms, but the aunts and the grandmothers and the sisters We are a community.
We can all be the type that say, we do better talking with men or we have more guy friends or whatever else, but we really are all connected and we have to make sure that we are keeping an eye out for these younger generations because you don't realize how much you can truly help them. Yes, there's an increase in self harm and there's an increase in eating disorders and different things like that. There's also an increase in hypersexuality.
And there's an increase in, the possibility of assault towards these girls
(00:43):
Jeannine Thill (06:18)I love what you're saying. And I'm just thinking, is that a whole nother podcast? Is that a whole nother episode about the girl?
Jessica (06:21)Mm.
It is. It is.
Jeannine Thill (06:26)I think it's good that not only we're talking about our daughters, but I think you can start to see it in yourself. I remember reading about all this stuff about like what it's like for girls and besides seeing it and my daughter of seeing it me. Like, that's what I experienced when I was a teenager. So maybe that's a whole nother podcast. I don't know what you think.
Jessica (06:39)right?
I
I wrote down walking statistics, young girls.
Jeannine Thill (06:45)we showed all these signs when we were teenagers.
Jessica (06:48)I always felt was that I was a walking autistic. I was from a divorced home. I didn't see my dad very often. So I had daddy issues. I was hypersexual.
Jeannine Thill (06:56)You're more statistically relevant than me, gosh darn it.
Jessica (06:59)Not in good way.
Jeannine Thill (07:00)So good girls don't get mad, right? That's the message from day one. We're told to be nice and to smile.
Jessica (07:06)Exactly. So we turn that anger in on ourselves and it looks like tears or guilt instead of rage. the guilt factor is also one of those things that just floors me. I know that I had guilt. I will get angry. I will get mad. I'll reach a point where I blow up and then I am back apologizing for blowing up when really I could have blown up 15 or 20 times before that. And I get in my head, well,
I held it in. Do you ever have that issue where you're ready to freak out, but it's 15 different issues that have happened and the fight you're having is only on one issue, now I can bring them up because I've reached like that, that maximum level. it's like, you have to reach like a certain pinnacle, In your mind, like that tank has to be completely full before you can let all the gas out.
you feel guilty because you're like, I should have said
something before and then I didn't say anything and it just spirals.
Jeannine Thill (07:55)then the person who's receiving or witnessing receiving, however you want to put it, that anger is looking at you like, why are you upset about this little thing? Because then that's when you're too emotional. You're too easily upset. What's your problem? And you can't say, yeah, because I've been frustrated about all these other things that I never spoke up. this is the straw that broke the camel's back. And it might look really minor.
Jessica (08:06)Right. going to say.
Jeannine Thill (08:18)to the person on, you know, the other person, but to you it's not.
Jessica (08:22)And maybe that is a direction to heal When we are screaming and flipping out and we can't catch our breath and everything's just coming out at once the person that we're yelling at, they aren't seeing the 15, 20 threads tied to this one little incident.
if we do learn to take the time to say, yeah, I am flipping out completely, but it's because I'm thinking of these 20 things. Maybe that's part of the healing process.
(01:04):
Jeannine Thill (08:44)Yeah. Well, and I think at least I know have known for me in those moments have come where I've just exploded is I do think why, did this one thing set me off? And so I'm even surprised by it. feels like it's almost this out of body experience of suddenly I am so angry and all of this is coming out and I'm almost just as surprised as the other person because I've just tried to bury all those other things.
Those are their 15 things that I didn't speak up about. I didn't, talk about and so it's almost just as surprising and upsetting to me as I think as it is to the other person.
Jessica (09:22)I think this is also a situation where women will find themselves saying, you know, I rarely get angry, but when I do.
Jeannine Thill (09:29)Mm-hmm.
Jessica (09:30)These are the types of things we say
that should be some red flags getting thrown up in the air. I really get angry, but when I do, I can remember every time I've ever gotten so angry that I said something. You shouldn't have to have that monumentous moment in your head because you're flipping out. And remember, that's the one time you got mad. Getting frustrated and letting off steam and being able to at least speak directly.
Those are all normal things. Those are all things that are absolutely normal that there doesn't have to be shame about. And in healthy relationships,
Jeannine Thill (09:57)Yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't have to be an event.
It doesn't have to be an event for sure.
Jessica (10:05)agreed.
Here's the kicker. If you can't let anger out, it will eat you from the inside out. And that might sound dramatic.
Jeannine Thill (10:14)Yeah, and suddenly...
and suddenly you're not just angry, you're exhausted, resentful, and maybe you even made yourself sick.
Jessica (10:21)ADHD burnout, autistic burnout, neurodiverse burnout is much different than the standard.
For the ADHD community, when we start to experience burnout, the exhaustion doesn't go away. Typically, to heal from burnout at its full extent can take up to two years because of the effects that it has on your mind, your body,
Jeannine Thill (10:27)Okay, broke up.
Jessica (10:44)and primarily your nervous system.
Jeannine Thill (10:46)So how many times have we been told we're hormonal or irrational when really we're just angry?
Jessica (10:52)⁓ the hormonal, that one gets me every time. Or irrational. What's the fastest way to piss a woman off? Tell her she's hormonal or irrational. Or tell her to calm down. hormones are such a complete misunderstanding from most of the population and what a hormone actually is. it is truly more than just estrogen and testosterone.
Jeannine Thill (10:55)I'm
(01:25):
tell her to be a hood. Yeah, because we're the only ones who have hormones. Yeah,
Jessica (11:13)But that is an in-depth discussion for a different day.
Jeannine Thill (11:16)Yeah.
Jessica (11:18)Tears, migraines, going silent. That's rage showing up sideways.
And I love that line that it shows up sideways because it's really like to the left. What's adjacent? What's adjacent to my anger, right? I can't feel this anger. So I look to the left or I look to the right and what's there. Cause that's what I'm going to grab onto next.
Jeannine Thill (11:37)Exactly.
And I got nothing else to say on that.
Jessica (11:39)me either. So stop telling women to calm down. What we need are ways to let the anger out without guilt.
Jeannine Thill (11:47)Processing anger isn't about control. It's about finding a release that doesn't leave you drowning in shame.
Jessica (11:53)that release can look messy and that's still healthier than internalizing. what are those messy releases?
the release looks messy and that's still healthier than internalizing. that release means that you are creating a space where that rage is acknowledged. But we have to take it one step further. We are acknowledging the fact that we have this internal rage. We are acknowledging the fact that we are upset and we are angry and we do not understand how to release this anger. So we must also take the steps to understand it.
and take the steps to recognize a healthy outlet instead of stuffing it back inside, which so many of us do. what are you doing to stuff that rage back inside? How are you holding it? How do you feel the next day, the next month? Are you ruminating about this shit that you're just pushing back inside of you? How is that going to show up for you and your health? How is that going to make your ADHD rage show up for you?
For me, the hardest times was in my thirties, which was right around that hormonal shift into paramedic pause, where I had no idea what was going on with me. And they kept putting me on SSRIs and telling me I was having anxiety and that I was depressed. And I felt like I was going crazy. I was crying at the drop of a hat. There didn't have to be any reason.
Jessica (13:15)⁓
Jeannine Thill (13:15)anger is definitely information. I've started to think of my anger as a compass. it tells me when something's off.
Jessica (13:21)If you're angry, it's usually because something matters deeply to you. There are boundaries that have been crossed, or there is an unmet need or an injustice, but there is some underlying reason.
Jeannine Thill (13:32)anger, it's not a weakness, but you think of it as data. know, something's telling you that something's off.
Jessica (13:39)we have to look at societally how we are raised as women and how anger and women coincide together, How many boundaries do we allow to be crossed? What do we tolerate in our daily lives that we should not be tolerating?
boundaries that are continuously crossed and yet we don't do anything about it? they just continue to snowball into these horrible events that happen to us as women, us as a community. There's a lot to it. And this is where we talk about stopping and recognizing what anger is, stopping and understanding where the anger is coming from. Because Janine is 100 % correct.
It is data. How do we look at it as data?
Anger is data. Reframing it as a guide instead of a flaw will change everything for you. It will completely turn your perspective in a different direction as to these feelings that you're having
(01:46):
Jeannine Thill (14:37)Thank
learning how to be angry is skill set. I think is actually a really good takeaway.
And for women, especially with ADHD, it's a skill no one ever taught us.
Jessica (14:48)It's interesting to try to look at modern expressions of being able to release anger. guys, they play rough, they have adrenaline seeking hobbies.
they're taught to be able to wrestle around and then 10 minutes later be best friends again, For us, any acts of anger, a lot of times we consider, acts of violence. there is a difference between the two, a very stark difference between the two of anger and violence. And I think that's something that women tend to mix together because there are so much violence towards women and anger towards women But
There are other perspectives to take it What are ways that we can get our anger out? there's different type of contact sports. A lot of women, young and old, who were in contact sports throughout their lives, they know how to get rough and they know how to get angry, but they also understand how to interact with other women. These are amazing social skills.
Contact sports have results for women, their confidence, their understanding of their bodies and their understanding of their emotions, whether they are intense, angry
learning how to regulate your nervous system. Roller derby, which I know sounds funny, but there are a lot of women's roller derby leagues they are awesome. Those are some awesome hardcore chicks. you don't have to be in physical contact to get that angry out. There are anger workouts. There's primal scream therapy.
Jeannine Thill (16:02)roller derby. That'd be fun. are.
learning how to even communicate our anger. I mean, I know that's always been a struggle for me, especially when it's around expressing an unmet need
So really just assertiveness classes. I have a friend who does improv and she said it's really helped her actually emotionally too because she can stay in the moment. I was like, that's interesting. learning negotiation skills.
which we could go on and on about how women are never taught how to negotiate. just learning how to communicate what's inside, being comfortable with that and finding the right words is so important.
Jessica (16:51)I what I'm hearing is communicating in the moment, That seems to be the key. whether it's through the improv or through negotiations and debating.
Jeannine Thill (16:54)and right here that seems to be
it's dealing with being flooded. when all those emotions have just taken over get yourself on top of those emotions, being able to express them.
I think the communication, know, that piece is really important when we start talking about relationships and probably more those intimate relationships, whether it could be a partner, could also be a child, you know, a friend, a parent, a sibling. But I think especially if we talk about like a romantic partnership of...
Helping them be aware that expressing your anger might be difficult for you and to make sure that they can I'm gonna say meet your energy, but almost be able to accept your energy to be able to accept When you are angry and giving you the space to be able to express it and to feel comfortable with it
Jessica (17:44)Yes, you are right. Sometimes women need that. And if we get it a little more often, our confidence will grow and we will be more comfortable in having extended conversations
Jeannine Thill (17:53)Yeah.
Jessica (17:56)We as families and mothers and aunts and all these, you know, as women, we're trying to understand what does exacerbate this anger, what does trigger this anger, what makes it overflow, right? What makes the damn break? Because we're holding it in, because we're not recognizing what it is. And there are so many different things that can be done. Rage journaling.
you can never have enough journals. And if it's a case that you journal in it two times and then you never ever do it again and you throw it away 10 years later, it still helped for those two times that you used it. So do it.
(02:07):
Jeannine Thill (18:19)Never.
Yeah, yeah.
the famous therapy of writing a letter, but never sending it of just getting all of it out, just getting it all on paper. especially if you're addressing it specifically to the person. I know I've used that numerous times and it is really, I know, I have found it very beneficial.
Jessica (18:40)Yes.
it is extremely beneficial. especially in trauma survivors, they will say they have difficulties in verbalizing. And by verbalizing the situations, it actually extends the trauma instead, writing it down is an outlet and allows your brain to process that emotion get it down and get it out,
Primary source getting it out you have to get it out of your body because it will make you physically sick and it comes in a hundred different ways It comes in the headache. in the nausea. exhaustion, a weakened immune system There are so many ways that it can show up, but it will show up
We have women's groups modeling healthy anger for the next generation. We have the younger generation who teach us more than what any of us It's really important that we also give them their props, right? Because they are experiencing these new set of setting their boundaries and with each other and the way that they interact with each other. It might be slightly different when they interact with us, but when they're interacting with their own generation.
A lot of them, know how to put their foot down. A lot of women know where to lay those lines down and how to hold them. And that is extraordinary. And it will help.
Jeannine Thill (20:05)Yeah, that is so true.
Jessica (20:07)now it's time for our fun new segment.
Jeannine Thill (20:09)Here's where we confess the stuff we thought everybody did. Turns out, nope.
Jessica (20:13)That's awesome. Let's talk about the moments ADHD pulled the rug out from under our definition of normal.
Jeannine Thill (20:19)Because sometimes the weirdest thing isn't us, it's realizing how much we've been carrying.
Jessica (20:24)thinking it's normal to cry every time you're angry because that's the only safe outlet you were taught? That's not normal.
Jeannine Thill (20:31)What? It's not? I thought it was.
Believing that everyone replays angry moments in their heads for days or even for weeks afterwards, unable to let it go.
Jessica (20:40)how old I was when I realized that one was not normal. That was something like that I still do. Do you ever talk in front of the mirror? you get so intense about it like you're talking in the mirror like you're having a conversation
Jeannine Thill (20:51)I'll talk out loud to myself about it.
Jessica (20:52)Yeah.
Jeannine Thill (20:53)I still think other people do it. They just don't admit to it.
Jessica (20:56)Assuming it's normal to feel physically hot, shaky, or like your skin is buzzing every time you get upset. So it's not normal to feel like you're vibrating when you're holding in your internal anger.
(02:28):
Jeannine Thill (21:06)Hmm. That's interesting. Yeah. Wonder what that's like. Thinking that shutting down mid-argument and going completely silent is just a personality trait.
Jessica (21:15)Isn't that funny? That we can so easily push that off for ourselves assume that we're supposed to be taking on the responsibility of all this. But yet if somebody else did it, we would be so worried. We'd be like, my goodness, my goodness. But for us, we're just like, it must just be my personality.
Jeannine Thill (21:30)I know. I should work on that.
Jessica (21:32)Believing everyone feels instant guilt immediately after expressing anger, no matter how justified it was. So people can get angry and not feel like shit about it.
Jeannine Thill (21:41)See, I don't know. That's hard to believe. How could you not? You just can't imagine what that would be like. It's just to release it and be okay with it.
Jessica (21:51)Right? Catch and release, catch and release.
Jeannine Thill (21:53)Oh,
Can't imagine. Assuming rage cleaning or other destructive chores is how everyone vents. Yeah, but at least your house is clean afterwards.
Jessica (22:02)I love a good rage clean. Do you? I don't know. When I was in my twenties, that was like the only way I could clean my house. That or if somebody called and said they were on their way over.
Jeannine Thill (22:03)So is it really that bad? No.
And, oh my God, my mom taught me that. she used to joke about having, you have people over just so you make sure you clean your house. And I swear I used to do that. cleaning out things like cleaning out a closet or anything With some good angry music in the background. It's not healthy, but it's productive.
Jessica (22:22)Okay.
Well, it's
when I'm doing the rage cleaning, but it's like I'm organizing something. I like to call that the purge. God only knows what's getting thrown out, but it's happening.
Jeannine Thill (22:30)but it's like I'm walking into something.
Ooh, that was...
Yeah, that's not bad.
anger isn't the enemy, it's the shame that follows that is.
Jessica (22:43)Expressing anger differently isn't just about us. It's about modeling something healthier for our next generations. I know we've mentioned the younger generations multiple times here, but early help is what makes so much of what we deal with with late diagnosis disappear. Had we had the foundation and the help the diagnosis is early,
the environments that we needed, it would have made a difference. It does make a difference. It doesn't fix ADHD. There is no fix to ADHD. And I know there's a lot out there right now that's saying there is. It's not a fix, but it is a measure to allow someone to be able to control and regulate their nervous system, their thoughts.
their feelings, their anger. these are the things that can literally save people. Understanding how to handle your anger, understanding how to process, these can be the differences between somebody jumping out of their car in a road rage incident and ruining more than one life, you can say, that's not true. But it is, it is.
(02:49):
there comes a point where your nervous system can no longer take things. And I know that that type of talk is an ultimate extreme, but it really is the reason why we want to focus on the younger generations and we want to show up for them and show that we can learn and what we can do and what we can change while we are standing here. Even though we didn't have that help, don't
be pissed because you didn't have that help and choose to withhold help from others because you didn't get it in the first place.
Jeannine Thill (24:18)excellent point. Somehow the older generations sometimes tend to do that. But I think also not just for the younger generations, but for ourselves as well, is that self-compassion, that understanding, all of that that we didn't get We have the opportunity to give that to ourselves now, is to give ourselves grace, compassion, and understanding.
Jessica (24:38)we have so many of us and so much access to each other now that maybe we don't realize because we've spent a lifetime feeling so alone and so secluded and preferring to be alone. It is a self survival reaction because we are not creatures who are meant to be completely and utterly alone, but those who like to be alone typically
It's because they have been trained that that is the safest place to be is alone. That is the calmest place to be is when you are alone. And there's nothing wrong with being alone and with needing alone time, because that is part of regulating your nervous system. But it's also important to remember that you are not alone. And there are so many of us here who need to know and understand and
Jeannine Thill (25:25)There are so many of us here. ⁓
Jessica (25:31)at least experience visually or verbally the things that each of us have gone through.
Jeannine Thill (25:38)Yeah, that is so true. And that's why we're here.
Jessica (25:41)It is because you're not alone.
Jeannine Thill (25:43)remember your anger is valid. You're not broken.
Jessica (25:46)Is that going to be our new outro?
Jeannine Thill (25:46)mean.
No, I thought it was gonna just be like, thanks for listening.
Jessica (25:52)How about unfinished outro, fully felt rage?
Jeannine Thill (25:55)How about outro pending? Anger ongoing?
Jessica (25:58)Ooh, I do like that.
Jeannine Thill (26:01)How about, we may not have an outro, but we've got each other.
Jessica (26:05)I got you babe.
Jeannine Thill (26:05)I got you. Okay, till next time.
Jessica (26:09)Thanks again for listening to Angry on the Inside. Remember, you're not alone. We are here.
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