March 27, 2025 • 56 mins
What if your doctor was just a call away—without insurance hurdles or long wait times? In this episode, Dr. Jordan Salmon shares firsthand experiences of how Direct Primary Care (DPC) makes healthcare more accessible, personal, and efficient. We break down the problems with traditional healthcare and explore how DPC gives patients direct access to quality care when they need it most. Tune in for an insightful look at the future of medicine and why more patients and doctors are choosing this innovative model.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Jordan SalmonWe had been hit by Hurricane Beryl. Electricity was completely out and I was just starting up my business. So we—--you know—---we didn't have a huge empanelment. And so we kinda just shut things down. But then I got a call from someone who had cut themself with a chainsaw.
(00:19):
Jordan SalmonAnd they were like, “Hey, we need some help. Can you take care of us?” And so I was like,” Well, yeah, come on over.” So he came over to my office, and I stitched him up in my office without electricity.
Jordan SalmonSo it was Hurricane Beryl, middle of the day, no electricity, super hot, sweaty. Doing these stitches, probably one of the hardest jobs I've done in terms of stitching and—--but we got them taken care of in the middle of Hurricane Beryl. I mean, you know, just after Hurricane Beryl. Doing all the cleanup and all that craziness.
(00:51):
Wayne LowryI mean, that's Direct Primary Care for you right there.
Jordan SalmonThat's Direct Primary Care, right? Just meeting people where they're at.
Wayne LowryLike, middle of a hurricane, stitching somebody up, they cut themselves with a chainsaw like nothing more Direct Primary Care than that.
Jordan SalmonThat's right. Yeah. It's kind of crazy.
(01:19):
Wayne LowryHello and welcome to the Best DPC podcast, the World's #1 podcast covering all things Direct Primary Care. I am your host, Wayne Lowry. I am not a doctor, but I once beat my sister in the game of operation.
Wayne LowryToday, I'm thrilled to have with me Doctor Jordan Salmon. He is a family physician, US Air Force veteran, a father of five, and the founder of Health Rising Direct Primary Care based in North Houston in Humble, TX.
(01:49):
Wayne LowryFrom serving in the military to transforming healthcare with DPC, Doctor Salmon's Story is one you won't wanna miss. So, let's dive in and introduce Doctor Salmon. Welcome to the podcast.
Jordan SalmonThank you very much for having me. Pleasure to be here.
Wayne LowrySo you are—-so tell me a little bit about yourself and what are you doing right now?
(02:14):
Jordan SalmonSo yeah, I’m a family physician like you mentioned. I was in the US Air Force, got my training over at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas. Great experience for me there. I went to England, I deployed to England or didn't deploy, I was PCS.
Jordan SalmonSo, they moved me to England for a few years. I was working in the emergency room there and that was kind of where my whole DPC story began. It was more of a health story actually. So for me personally, I wasn't doing very well from a health perspective.
(02:49):
Wayne LowryHow so?
Jordan SalmonIt was pandemic, so my hours actually got cut a little bit because there was no one going in the emergency room.
Jordan SalmonSo, they didn't need me as much. I had more time to do lazy things, and so I did more lazy things, and my health declined. I hit the obesity threshold, and I was depressed. We were far from family. And it was kind of a struggle for me at that time.
(03:16):
Wayne LowrySo you packed on your COVID 15 lbs or what?
Jordan SalmonMy COVID pounds. Yeah, they accumulated pretty rapidly. I mean, I had always kind of struggled with my weight, and this kind of took it to a new level. Right. And so I wasn't in a good place, and that's when I started to say, “Hey, I need to make some changes, but I'm a doctor, so I should know the answers.”
(03:41):
Jordan SalmonAnd so I went to see myself. It was like, “Alright, Doctor Salmon, tell me what we need to do. Right, you're obese, you're struggling with depression.” And I didn't have the answers that I wanted to have at that time. I was like, “Ok, well, you gotta lose weight. And you know, depression, you can see a therapist or here's a pill.” Didn't have great answers for myself.
(04:03):
Wayne LowryI was gonna say, you know, always when you start with talking about yourself in the third person, that's a little bit of a red flag right there. So are you sure you're okay now? Do you still refer to yourself as Doctor Salmon? I mean that's…
Jordan SalmonI am, yeah. So it was the beginning for me of a health revolution. Right? And that started my journey into discovering DPC and recognizing some of the needs that we really have. So I started changing quite a bit.
(04:30):
Jordan SalmonI learned a lot about things that we don't talk as much about in the healthcare setting. The things that really get someone to be healthy. And so we started making significant nutrition changes, exercise changes, getting better sleep. I learned a lot about mental health from a whole new perspective and how we can improve our mental health and ended up…
(04:51):
Wayne LowryWell, I'm excited to dive into some of those topics related to your passion and what you're doing with your practice, before we jump into that, though, I wanna ask you a little bit about your personal life and some of the things that you're involved in. What do you do for fun?
Jordan SalmonSure, sure. Yeah.
Jordan SalmonYeah. OK. Yeah, I see where you're at now. So, for me, I love sports. I like watching sports. I like college football more than NFL.
(05:18):
Wayne LowryOK, what's your team?
Jordan SalmonI went to BYU, so that was my undergrad, and so I still cheer for BYU even though I'm in Houston. This is where the Houston Cougars are. So I'm not BYU cougar. I don't say that too loudly, but yeah, that's who I cheer for..
Wayne LowryWell, you can just say I'm a Cougar fan or, no, don't say that.
Jordan SalmonThat's right. That's right. I'm a Cougar fan.
Wayne LowryIt's important to add that S at the end if you just say you're a cougar fan, people might actually have some real questions about sending anyone over. So let's be real careful about our terminology there. That's my bad.
(05:46):
Jordan SalmonThere you go. That's right, that's right.
Wayne LowrySo, you enjoy college football? I love college football. In fact, I think on a previous podcast, I think I might talk about this every podcast, to be honest. We're getting our own collegiate team down here in the Rio Grande Valley, and I am pumped. I've got my season tickets on order. We'll be doing seat assignment next month or later this month, and yeah, so we're pumped to have college football.
(06:19):
Jordan SalmonYeah. No, I love sports. And my kids all play sports. So, you know, I'm a coach for one of my daughter’s soccer teams, so heavily involved in sports and love, you know, being active.
Wayne LowryNow you said one of your daughters. How many kids do you have?
Jordan SalmonI have five kids. Yep. So, three daughters. Two of my daughters are in soccer, and then I'm the coach for one of their teams. Yeah.
Wayne LowryFive kids.
(06:42):
Wayne LowryNow, are your daughters the oldest? Do you have a bunch of girls and then some boys at the end? Or they all mixed in?
Jordan SalmonWe have we got book in boys, so first one's a boy. Last one's a boy. And I think that's how it'll be.
Wayne LowryWell, I asked that because I was a girl dad, you know, for the longest. So I have two girls, and then I have my son. And that's one of the challenges. You know, when you're used to raising girls, you kind of understand things. And then all of a sudden the boys different, and I have a friend who's good friend, who's the opposite. He's a bunch of boys, and then he has a girl, and it's like okay, you gotta rethink everything when you are used to parenting 1 gender, not just having them both intermixed in the chain.
(07:24):
Jordan SalmonYeah, it definitely changes things up for sure yeah.
Wayne LowryAnd on top of that, you got a business, you're in the sports, you've got a business, you're a busy man, I assume.
Jordan SalmonYeah, we're very busy.
Wayne LowrySo, when we were discussing this podcast, I noticed you were born in Canada. So tell me about that. How long did you live in Canada?
(07:48):
Jordan SalmonSo I didn't live in Canada long, but I was born there. My parents moved when I was a baby. For my dad to go to school, came down to the States, and then we just visited Canada pretty regularly, so I still enjoy Canada. They've got probably better chocolate than we have in America, and yeah.
Wayne LowryReally? So chocolate of all the things I've never heard, people I was assuming you're going to be like, you know, really enjoy the Maple syrup or something, I don't know, but chocolate?
(08:17):
Jordan SalmonMaple syrup is good, too, yeah. They've got a handful of different candies that, you know, candy bars and chocolate bars and things like that that we don't have here in the US.
Wayne LowryWell, you could pay. You could pay like a 25% tariff and get it.
Wayne LowryHold on. Just to be clear, not making a political statement, just making an observation that if you want chocolate it would cost you know 25% more right now.
(08:41):
Jordan SalmonThat's true. It's better to just fly to Canada now.
Wayne LowryIt's cheaper to fly to Canada, eat all the chocolates you want. So, you mentioned a little bit about your health journey and your transformation. Now, you lost a tremendous amount of weight when you started your practice, right? Or leading into your practice. Tell us about that.
Jordan SalmonSo yeah, like I was mentioning. That was a challenging time in life where I was. Didn't really feel very good and had to learn a lot about losing weight. I've come to realize, you know, weight loss is extremely hard.
(09:16):
Jordan SalmonI see a lot of patients who struggle with it, and especially in America, my weight loss happened in England. So I think it's a little bit easier there, right? We don't have as many fast food restaurants. They have, actually, very different laws regarding the types of foods that they're allowed to sell in stores and things like that.
Jordan SalmonBut, needless to say, I learned a lot just about making small changes. how to improve my health ended up losing 65 lbs. And felt tremendously better. I mean, you know, that was an entire child that, you know, I was carrying around, and so losing that weight really reshaped the way that I think about health and the way that I approach treating patients.
(09:54):
Wayne LowryI think, to be honest, I think if I lived in England and had to eat green peas every day, I would probably lose 65 lbs.
Jordan SalmonI know, so maybe I shouldn't say it's a great thing. I should just say, you know, it just happened because I was in England, right, and everyone loses weight.
Wayne LowryBut really I think that's interesting. You know, I think about a trip I took to Italy. I spent two weeks in Italy and lost weight, eating pizza and, you know, enjoying the cuisine and actually lost weight came back here, tried to eat the same thing.
(10:25):
Wayne LowryForget about it. Like, I'm going to pack on the bounce. So, there's something to be said about what is in the American diet versus what ingredients are in the same style of food in European countries. So maybe we'll dive into that. Maybe we'll look at that here in a minute.
Wayne LowrySo you lost a lot of weight, you've gotten involved in this health journey and that's been part of your inspiration and motivation to open up your own Direct Primary Care clinic. So, what are you doing with Health Rising? What are some of the goals? And just tell us a little bit about your clinic.
(11:11):
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. So Health Rising Direct Primary Care. So we are a clinic, I mean a lot of the goals that we have are aligned with most DPC practices where I think that the care that we deliver and the insurance-based system just is not great care.
Jordan SalmonPeople are being rushed in and rushed out. We're treating them kind of like they're on a conveyor belt and you just got to get them in and get them out. And it doesn't end up being good medicine. We're treating diseases as opposed to treating people. And that's not the way that we need healthcare to be, right?
(11:44):
Jordan SalmonSo at Health Rising Direct Primary Care, we try and treat people like people, right? We listen to them. We try and let them know that they're seen. We let them know that they're heard and that we are here to be their team member and work with them as opposed to just giving them a list of things that they need to do on their own and send them out the door as quick as we can.
Wayne LowrySo if someone were to walk into your clinic, what would be the first thing that they would notice? Tell me about like that first experience of walking.
(12:11):
Jordan SalmonFirst thing is they're going to see me greeting them at the door, and they're not going to wait in the waiting room. So they don't have to wait.
Wayne LowryHold on. I'm gonna stop you right there. So how else are they going to know what's happening in the National Geographic from 1984?
Jordan SalmonYou know, that's a good point. And so if people are really interested in that stuff, you know, they can go back to insurance-based care and learn all they want to know about that. But here we just try and take care of their health. That's what we do.
(12:40):
Wayne LowryI got you. So they walk in, you greet them at the door. How big is your lobby?
Jordan SalmonSo we share a lobby with a dermatologist here. And so you know for right now that's kind of where our space is at and it's a great you know good sized lobby but then we're off on the side, we've got a couple of rooms and we take care of patients over there. And so pretty much getting you right in the room right off the bat.
(13:03):
Wayne LowrySo, you have the patients that are—we're going to talk about about the person you've been—so, don't get the wrong idea, but I'm thinking about if the dermatologist is practicing in traditional care, then I'm guessing they've got people in the waiting room and your people are just walking right in, coming straight in. There's probably a little bit of envy there. I mean, if we're being honest.
Jordan SalmonYeah. And so, absolutely. I mean our patients aren't waiting, right. They're coming right in and and they don't have to wait, we just don't believe in that kind of medicine.
(13:35):
Wayne LowrySo they walk in, you greet them at the door, you take them back. You've got how many little exam rooms or triage set up or what do you have.?
Jordan SalmonWe have two rooms, so we'll just—-we usually do vitals and kind of check them in in one of those rooms. I've got a staff member that helps me out with getting that done. We're a very small clinic and the way that we're able to help pass on savings is by keeping things small and keeping it that way.
(14:04):
Wayne LowryGotcha. So you got them. You have somebody that's helping get them checked in. Now when they walk in, are you handing them a big sack of paperwork to fill out? How do you even know who they are?
Jordan SalmonSo I know all my patients just by seeing them come in the door. That's something that I didn't know beforehand, right before I would have to ask everyone what their name was, but at this stage I'm, you know, I know every one of my patients by name. So they're walking in and I see you. And I know who you are. So we're taking care of you right away.
(14:39):
Wayne LowryAwesome.
Wayne LowryI want to take a quick break to talk about bestdpc.com. Are you a doctor looking to break free from the headaches of insurance and take control of your practice? Or maybe you're an employer searching for an affordable healthcare solution that actually works.
Wayne LowryAt bestdpc.com we cut through the noise and connect you with the country's best Direct Primary Care clinics. Whether you're a patient tired of surprise medical bills or a physician ready to build a thriving membership-based practice.
(15:09):
Wayne LowryWe've got the tools and resources you need. Find the best DPC doctors near you. Get expert advice and take the first step towards better healthcare.
Wayne LowryVisit bestbc.com today and see why Direct Primary Care is the future of medicine. That's bestdpc.com because great healthcare should be simple, affordable, and built around you.
(15:30):
Wayne LowrySo what kind of tool stack—-sorry your tech stack. Thinking about the tools that you're using. You've got people coming in. They've got that elevated customer experience they get to see their doctor right away. They know you. You know them. You're getting them set up. They're not out there waiting.
(15:51):
Wayne LowryWhat are you doing as far as tech goes to help through that process? So tell us a little bit about your tech stack. Let's geek out about tech.
Jordan SalmonAbsolutely. So I love my system. My EMR system is amazing because it will send, you know, it has automatic reminders for my patients. So they get their text reminders automatically the day before.
(16:13):
Wayne LowryTell me what system are you using?
Jordan SalmonI use Atlas MD.
Wayne LowryAtlas. Yeah. Tell us how it works.
Jordan SalmonIt's a really good system, it works—you know it integrates automatically with my medical—like my note keeping, all of that is together with my texting, and my phone calls, and billing, right? So it's all kind of a one system that works pretty well for me.
(16:40):
Jordan SalmonAnd so it automatically sends text reminders to my patients beforehand. And if I want to send them texts, I do that directly from my EMR system so that I'm not having a text conversation with the patient and then having to make notes about what we talked about later.
Jordan SalmonIt's just automatically in their system in their chart, so they can text me personally, we have those conversations regularly. And that's just part of their record, their medical records. It's kind of a private room.
(17:04):
Wayne LowryOK, so I was going to say so. If they texted you, I'm guessing that the text messaging then is picked up through your system or Atlas.
Jordan SalmonYeah, it's automatically integrated. So any text they send me just get uploaded into their chart and it's through the system that we can perform that text messaging.
(17:27):
Wayne LowryAlright, So what other pieces of tech are you using?
Jordan SalmonSo I use some AI as well. So you know AI is here to stay. It's just part of our lives today and it helps me with writing notes and kind of making my system and my part more efficient so that I can spend more time with my patients.
Wayne LowryNow is that integrated in your EMR?
(17:51):
Jordan SalmonIt is, yeah. So the AI is—-there's multiple tools for that AI where I can use it to, you know, automatically draft. So, I'll you know, review patients’ labs, for example, and we're reviewing their labs and then the AI just automatically integrates that into a note that I can then send to the patient so that they can kind of see it really nicely aligned.
Jordan SalmonSee all my review on what's going on with their labs or, you know, other things like we get a bunch of records sent in from another clinic, and AI helps me just analyze that information and pull out those pertinent details, put it into the patient's chart so that then we can make sure that we're getting them good care.
(18:28):
Wayne LowryWell, you know, with a lot of concerns that come out through, you know, privacy concerns, the fact that it's integrated into the system is probably a bit of comfort.
Jordan SalmonYeah, I mean, I'm not going to ChatGPT to ask him—you know,”Hey, here's my patient. What should we do about this?” Right, we're not doing any of that.
Wayne Lowry“Here's my patient. Here's how old they are. Here's where they live. That's how much money they make. You're going to keep that private for me, right? AI, you're not going to send a drone after them are you?”
(18:58):
Wayne LowryWell so, that's interesting cause yeah, the different AI models that are out there, I'm curious—-what they—-And I'll do my own research on that. I'm curious what AI model they're tied in with whether it's a one of the open source models like a llama, or hopefully not DeepSeek. I'm just saying, or if it's one of the closed models like OpenAI, ChatGPT or Claude or Grock. I mean—-there's so many—-there's so many advancements right now, with AI. It's seems like every day there's some new announcement or some new way to integrate it into your practice.
(19:37):
Wayne LowrySo for you, you feel like the AI has boosted your ability to do what? To provide clearer notes to shorten your time, administrative headache? Like what would you say AI is helping the best for you?
Jordan SalmonSo. AI is helping to streamline the administrative burden so that I can be more efficient with the things that I'm most effective at, which is taking good care of patients right being there for them.
(20:10):
Jordan SalmonBecause in your typical insurance-based clinic right we would have like a 20 minute appointment, but I'd spend at least 25% of that time just doing documentation, charting, trying to do all that stuff. And so AI is helping to streamline that so that the majority of my time with the patient is with the patient.
Wayne LowrySo what are you doing for virtual care? Do you have any particular system you're using on that?
(20:36):
Jordan SalmonSo my Atlas MD does that as well. So I have a—--it's got telemedicine services just integrated with my EMR system and so my patients when they book their appointments they can do—-they can book a face to face visit, but if they're like “Hey, I want this to be a virtual appointment.” We just book it as a virtual appointment and then I send them a link through my EMR and then automatically pulls up and we have a quick chat virtually.
(21:01):
Jordan SalmonIt's been great. I've had patients that have given me great comments that it's, you know, it's streamlined, it's fast, it doesn't take them a lot of time to log on to the system or. figuring it out. So that's been awesome.
Wayne LowryGotcha. So what would you say now? What about other tech? Are you a Google person? Are you using Microsoft products? What are you using just to help with your administrative work?
(21:24):
Jordan SalmonThat's a good question. I mean, I like Google and I think Google helps me out quite a bit just with, you know, a lot of their basic Google Docs and things like that, compiling information and getting patient notes and or like, not patient notes, but like the patient instruction.
Jordan SalmonYou know, if I want to send a patient instructions and things like that, I can have that all in Google Docs because my goal is I don't think we should be sending faxes anymore. I don't think we should be doing paper anymore. I don't hand my patients paper. They don't hand me paper like we just make things electronic. That's the way that our current world should be.
(22:02):
Wayne LowryYeah. So how—then will anyone be able to judge your penmanship for prescription writing? If you're doing everything? And I mean—-you are a doctor after all—-I mean, there is a standard of scribbledness that we all expect.
Jordan SalmonThat is true. Unfortunately then, most people just—-they don't know, and they'll probably never get to see that anymore. So that will be, you know, my penmanship will just stay horrendous, but nobody will ever realize how horrendous it really is and that's the thing.
(22:32):
Wayne LowryI think we should probably go ahead and add that into the show notes. I'll send you a notepad, let you scribble, and then take a picture and send it over.
Jordan SalmonI'm just using AI. I have them right before me.
Wayne LowryYou say recreate—recreate it. Okay, so we talked a little bit about tech, your tech stack. What about—-what are you seeing like a typical day at Health Rising? How many patients are you seeing? How big is your panel? What's kind of your goal for your practice?
(23:00):
Wayne LowryWhen it comes to how many people you want to see, you want to add more providers, you know. What are some of those things—-you know a typical day and and what are you looking towards?
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. So we're a really young practice. We only opened up last year. So we're at 100 patients and we're looking to grow. I, you know, I probably will have around 500 patients for each provider and eventually we will grow to have multiple providers.
(23:31):
Jordan SalmonI really see a Direct Primary Care model that incorporates all of your basic primary care needs, any of your chronic care needs, really helping patients to optimize their health. So I envision a system where we involve a lot of…like physical therapy and our therapy services, right, mental health therapy services, all of those things to have them incorporated so that our patients can have access to all of those things. And what that will actually look like. I'm excited to find out. I don't think I have all those answers yet but those are things, that's kind of the vision that I have for the long term.
(24:12):
Wayne LowryNow what about pricing? What are you? Are you in family pricing? You're doing individual pricing kind of how—what's your approach to that? I know every mark is going to be different, so anyone listening to this, knows what goes for Humble TX. I guarantee it’s not the same, that goes to New York City, NY.
Jordan SalmonAbsolute and I've learned really fast that you can't compare, right? I mean, I think I started doing that, especially when you're getting, you're gaining your empanelment and “You're like, wow, this is going slower than I thought.”
(24:43):
Jordan SalmonYou have to recognize that every location has its different, you know, things are going to progress differently and you got to just do—--focus on you and on what your systems are, you know where you're at.
Jordan SalmonSo for us, our pricing is $99.00 for anyone 20 to 44 and then above 45 and up is $139.00. And that's the monthly price. We do do an enrollment fee to get people onboarded and help with some of those annual labs, but we include those annual labs with your membership.
(25:13):
Wayne LowryOkay, so do you draw the labs there?
Jordan SalmonYep, yeah—--we do—--We try and create a lot of conveniences, right? So we do our labs in-house. So that way patients don't have to make multiple stops.
Wayne LowryOkay, cool.
Wayne LowrySo I wanna transition now—if it's OK—to talk a little bit about preventative care ‘cause I know that's a real big passion of yours with wellness and considering that aspect of your practice. You mentioned your personal health journey, how has your personal health journey transformed how you look at medicine and its role—the role of Wellness and medicine and healthy living, and how is that integrated into your practice?
(25:59):
Jordan SalmonI think that that is a huge driver for the way that I practice medicine and a big reason for why I started my practice. I believe in a very different kind of healthcare than the insurance-based model. I think insurance-based care is…
(26:21):
Jordan SalmonIt's essentially stuck in—it's got a lot of problems with it, right? And we could try and get into every single one of those problems. And I just think that direct primary care solves a lot of those issues. It's a model where the way that our insurance-based healthcare is going to make money is if we get as many people on as many medications as possible and having as many procedures as possible and seeing the doctor as often as possible.
(26:52):
Jordan SalmonAnd none of those things were what were needed for me to get healthy and get to where I'm at. And so the answers—and this is kind of what I talk about with my patients—the real answers to health are within us as humans, right?
Jordan SalmonIt's in us and learning how to bring that out of us with the way that we're living our lives and choosing a different pattern of living helps us to live better and feel better. And that's really the key to health. And so I try to help patients with that. It's a lot of like lifestyle medicine, right, integrative medicine.
(27:29):
Jordan SalmonThere's a lot of different terms for different ways to think about it, but I just try to think of it as health, right? What gets someone healthy? What gets someone to feeling really good, feeling well and living their lives in that way so that they're loving their lives. And it's really the key to helping someone to, you know, that's what's going to help someone who's struggling with diabetes, someone who's struggling with high blood pressure.
(27:53):
Jordan SalmonThe answer is, you know, we've gone to medication so often because that's how the billing models are set up in the insurance-based system.
Jordan SalmonBut you can treat those things without medications, right? If we're living differently and we start eating differently and we start sleeping better and we start connecting socially, that can improve our mental health. That can improve our blood pressure. That can improve these things that we focus on, and we try and push, you know, a lot of the things that the insurance-based system is pushing.
(28:23):
Wayne LowrySo you mentioned sleep, you mentioned what we eat. So tell us, you know, in your mind, how important the right diet, the right sleep or right amount of sleep, like how does all that kind of mix in healthy living?
(28:44):
Wayne LowryWhat are some ways that you see that we should really focus in those areas and what kind of success do we see?
Jordan SalmonWell, CDC said 60 to 80% of our chronic diseases are caused by lifestyle choices, right? So, if people are living—if we get ourselves to live healthy lifestyles, we can absolutely, significantly decrease the burden of these chronic diseases that we're struggling with in our country today.
(29:17):
Wayne LowryWhat? What does the healthy style look like?
Jordan SalmonSo—
Wayne LowryHealthy living, sorry.
Jordan SalmonYeah. So, I think that we often get stuck in that paradigm of like, you know, what is the healthy answer, right? And we try to make things really black and white. I admit there's a lot more gray to it, right? And it's not going to be perfect for every single person.
Jordan SalmonAnd that's why we need direct primary care where we're able to adjust your “healthy living" for you based on you and not compare that to your neighbor and say, “that's how you need to live,” right? “That's how you need to eat.”
(29:53):
Jordan SalmonAnd you know that's—a lot of the weight loss programs and a lot of the things that we have today are pushing a lot of: “This is the answer. You have to do it this way,” and that's really not the answer. The answer is for you to figure out, “Okay, well, how is this going to work for me?”, “How am I going to make this happen for me?” And you can go through each one of those. You know, the main components of healthy living. You're looking at getting really good sleep, right? Adequate sleep on a regular basis.
(30:22):
Wayne LowrySo 4 hours a night, every other night?
Jordan SalmonThere you go.
Jordan SalmonNo, so you know, you got to be sleeping…it's going to be somewhere between seven to nine hours of sleep. Generally for most adults, right? And that's going to vary. You're going to have bad nights. You're going to have—I've got a baby at home and it doesn't happen like that every night.
(30:47):
Jordan SalmonAnd so, you're having to adjust to your current status of where things are at for you and that's hard for patients to do and hard for patients to understand, but that's what you gotta do. You gotta recognize that you can't just pinpoint it and say, “Oh, you gotta get 8 hours of sleep every night if you're not getting 8 hours of sleep, then that's the end for you.” Like, you got to be willing to let yourself be human.
(31:09):
Jordan SalmonThat's a huge part of being human, right? And accepting that, “Alright, I'm a human. I'm gonna have a baby at home, and that's gonna change my sleep patterns, and that's okay. And I'm gonna get through this, and it's going to be a little different season of life for me.” And then when we get out of that season, then we start adjusting to try and help it improve.
Jordan SalmonAnd…that's really how we improve our health is we are continually adjusting and changing as we grow and as we adapt and as—you know—the way that our human body breaks down and we move forward in life, it's going to change the way the amount of sleep that we're going to get and how well we get that sleep and all the other components of healthy living, right?
(31:53):
Jordan SalmonSo, you're looking at the—I was going to mention them, right? Jordan Salmon I think it's important to kind of know, “Alright, well, what are the things that we focus on?” There's a lot of them, right? The ones that I try to focus on with my patients are sleep, getting really good sleep and trying to get adequate sleep for that time period of your life as well as we can, right? And then nutrition, eating Whole Foods, right?
Wayne LowryLike the whole bag of onions?
(32:14):
Jordan SalmonThe whole? Yeah, we've got a lot of processed foods in our country and we're not eating nearly enough fruits and vegetables. And so we're trying to supplement our lack of nutrition in our diet and that's not the way that it needs to be. You know, you focus on your diet to get your diet right, and then the supplements are where that diet is not giving you what you need.
Jordan SalmonSo, having good nutrition is really important.
(32:38):
Jordan SalmonAnd then, stress management, mental health, right? Those are huge components. It's really about the way that our thoughts are and I probably won't go too deep into that, but that's something I try to help my patients with, recognizing thought patterns and changing those thought patterns to help them as they're moving forward with their mental health.
Jordan SalmonAnd then social connection is a huge one, right? We want to connect socially with people. We want to be seen and we want people to see, we want to see other people and connect on a deep level.
(33:09):
Wayne LowryI mean, that's why we have, you know, this video going right now. I feel so connected to you right now. Right? Ain’t that what happened during COVID? People turned to virtual meetings. And what happened to our mental health?
Jordan SalmonYeah, I mean, you can see it, right? You can see the struggle that goes on there and we realize, “Ohh, that's a pretty critical component of our health.”
(33:33):
Jordan SalmonAnd to connect with people socially, we are social creatures as humans and we need to connect socially on a regular basis and that is something that I try and help my patients to do, right? Making goals on that, working towards that, it's something that helps improve your health absolutely.
Wayne LowrySo, did you go through all seven? I'm not really good at math.
(33:55):
Jordan SalmonLet's see. I think I hit most of them…I mean, those are the main components, right?
Wayne LowryHow about this? At the end of this, I'm gonna have everybody connected to you. So, if we watch this podcast and we're like, “Hey, he missed one,” they can reach out to you and schedule a consultation and maybe become members.
(34:16):
Jordan SalmonThere you go. So, we're not going to give you all the answers here because you gotta come see me.
Wayne LowryThat's right. And if you're in Cleveland, OH, there is a direct flight to the Intercontinental airport in Houston, TX. So you could be—
Jordan SalmonOr we do telemedicine. We do telemedicine.
Wayne LowryOh, OK, well, there you go.
(34:37):
Wayne LowrySo, part of your practice now, I understand you're starting to work with some small employer groups as well, right? So I guess some of your panel or most of your panels, probably private individuals that found you through your marketing efforts or just being known in the Community or a referral from a friend, but now you're starting to see local businesses and do some corporate wellness type work. Tell us a little bit about that and what you're seeing as far as impact.
(35:07):
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. So that's one of the great benefits of DPC, right? We can provide really unparalleled access to medical services to businesses and that's really what businesses—that's the reason that they wanted to provide medical services, right?
Jordan SalmonThey want to…they want their employees to be healthy and they want them to not miss work and they want them to do good work and to enjoy their job and to stay at their job. And that's what DPC provides, right?
(35:38):
Jordan SalmonYou're getting really good retention in your employees because you're working with the DPC. You're getting them really good care. They know what their health's at. They can get access to care really fast, so they're not missing time, they're more productive at work.
Jordan SalmonAnd so for an employer, it just makes a lot of sense to say, “Hey, let's use DPC, we can actually cut a lot of costs, give our employees really good access to care, they get better care, it's personalized and they're giving me better work.” And that's…I mean, isn't that what you want as an employee?
(36:08):
Wayne LowryTake a quick break to talk about scalebyseo.com.
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(36:30):
Wayne LowryWith the right SEO strategy, your practice becomes the obvious choice when people are looking for better healthcare options. If you're not showing up where they're searching, you're missing out.
Wayne LowryBe visible, get found. Grow your practice. Don't leave growth to chance. Visit scalebyseo.com today and let's get your clinic in front of the right people.
(36:53):
Wayne LowrySo on top of that, like I mentioned, you're working with small businesses, you're starting to see an impact with that.
Wayne LowryWhat about just on a very personal level? What are some of the successes you've seen working in direct primary care? I don't think we mentioned this specifically or asked this specifically, but how much time do you typically spend with the patient and how has that additional time over traditional medicine maybe enhanced some outcomes for you?
(37:25):
Jordan SalmonSo, I have a lot of patients that have had significant improvements in their health with working with me and I think that is in part because of the time that I'm able to spend with my patients. I'm spending at least an hour with my patients on an initial visit and then follow up visits usually like 1/2 an hour.
Jordan SalmonAnd in the insurance-based system, when I was working in insurance-based care right, you're probably getting 10 minutes if you're lucky to be, you know, with your physician. But it's not the kind of care and it's not the kind of personalization because in those 10 minutes, I'm having to get to know you for the first time. So now, I already know you and we're spending that time.
(38:05):
Jordan SalmonWe already have things that we're working on. We know where your health is at, what your health goals are at, and we're able to work a lot better at moving you, moving that needle more significantly towards improving your health outcomes. And so, I think it's having really good results in that regard.
Wayne LowryAwesome.
Wayne LowryAll right. So, is there a particular success story that comes to mind?
(38:28):
Jordan SalmonYeah. So I mean, I talked with my patients about, I call it like the health rising pathway to walk through that would probably take an entire podcast. We won't go there, but it's essentially the process of making little changes and how you make those small changes on a regular basis to get to where you want to be to make these big goals.
(38:49):
Jordan SalmonLosing 65 pounds, for example, right? It takes time. So, I've had some patients who have worked with me on that pathway and have lost a notable amount of weight, have improved their mental health and are just feeling a lot better.
Jordan SalmonAnd I think that it speaks volumes for the kind of medicine that we're trying to practice, where it's not your quick fix type medicine in the insurance-based system that we're seeing that it's just not working like we often want it to.
(39:14):
Wayne LowryMm-hmm.
Wayne LowryWell, let's transition to another topic. I want to talk about the future of DPC.
Wayne LowryAnd maybe what you're seeing in your practice in your community and what are some of the opportunities you see going forward with DPC. Now, obviously you're in a very large market and not everybody that's listening to this podcast can relate to being in Houston and competing in the Houston market.
(39:44):
Wayne LowryBut in any market, whether there's a couple million people that live, you know, within 60 miles of you or a couple thousand people that live within 60 miles of you, there's going to be challenges in growing your practice. So, what are some of the things that you have seen? What are some ways that you found success that could relate to maybe anyone that's listening to growing their practice, like what are you seeing as successful things to help grow your practice?
(40:14):
Jordan SalmonSo I mean, it's a lot like small business work, right? You gotta network, you gotta learn how to connect with people and you gotta do it really quickly and efficiently. And so, that's where I'm seeing the most success: person to person, one person hearing about me. And there's times when you don't realize what kind of business you're going to get from these small encounters.
(40:37):
Jordan SalmonAnd so, you really have to just put yourself out there. That's one of the challenges of starting a business that might be an uncomfortable thing to do as a doctor, right? We're not used to that. It's not something that we've had to do to market ourselves. And that can feel awkward at times.
Jordan SalmonBut you have to recognize, like, “Hey there, there's a demand for this. People want this. Whenever people hear about this, they're very intrigued. It's an exciting topic. People want to talk about this and there's a lot of people that don't know about it.” And so I'm doing a lot of educating, a lot of one-on-one conversations, lunches, just talking to people about what DPC is, how it can benefit them.
(41:18):
Jordan SalmonAnd you know, some of the challenges that I see is a lot of people are stuck in the insurance-based mindset and they are like, “Well, I have my insurance-based care and that's kind of what we have.” But then they have friends who maybe don't have that or you know, there's certain professions that need DPC or they're like “Hey, I don't have great insurance with my business or with where I'm at,” and so we can fill a lot of those gaps for them.
(41:47):
Jordan SalmonSo, it's a lot of just finding those people and that's through word of mouth, that's through networking, that's through connecting with people and letting them know that this is an alternative. This is an option. This is available. And then people want to engage with it and connect to it.
Wayne LowrySo you talked about networking. What type of networking opportunities are you involved in?
(42:10):
Jordan SalmonYeah. So I try and leverage my patients, right? So my patients, you know, I have patients who are business owners. I have patients who have colleagues who are business owners. And so it's finding them and saying, “Hey, I'd love the chance to just talk with, you know, talk with your boss. I'd love to come and talk with your employees and just tell them what I do, what I'm offering, and how we can serve them and meet some of these medical needs that they have going on.”
(42:36):
Jordan SalmonI am involved with some other networking groups, right? So, I've joined the Chamber of Commerce. I've joined the BNI, which is a networking group. And in those groups, we're connecting with other business owners and we're talking to them about what we do and about how DPC can solve a lot of the issues and the challenges that they have of providing great benefits to their employees.
Jordan SalmonAnd right now we're seeing insurance prices continuing to rise pretty significantly and I think a lot of—and then you know and with inflation and just how things are at right now—I think a lot of business owners are looking for alternative solutions to meet the medical needs of their employees.
(43:14):
Wayne LowryYeah. So you mentioned BNI, I'm guessing those type of groups:Chambers, BMI not only is giving you new relationships, but also helping you refine your pitch, right? Because there aren't really great opportunities to say, “Hey, what resonates with somebody,” you know? You might say it 10 different ways to 10 different people to find out, “Hey, this is what really resonates.”
(43:37):
Jordan SalmonYes, yes, absolutely. And what are those things that get them to perk their ears up and say, “Oh, tell me more about that,” or “That sounds like something I want to know more about,” right? And that's really what you're trying to find out.
Jordan SalmonAnd, you know, I've learned from networking, it's like developing a relationship, right? Someone's not going to marry you on the first date, and so you can't expect them to join your practice the first time they hear about you.
(44:06):
Jordan SalmonYou've got to work at it, you've got to connect with them, you've got to reconnect with them and continue to pursue it and recognize when there's a potential for business opportunity and be a—and accept the fact that it doesn't always happen the first time you talk to someone that's just part of starting business.
Wayne LowryYeah. So, when you look at the landscape of healthcare, and you look at what trends you see in just overall healthcare, whether it's being more proactive and patient focused and you know some of those, maybe some of those buzzwords. But when we look at that in trends, how do you think DPC will play a role in that compared to the traditional, you go to the doctor when you're sick?
(44:51):
Jordan SalmonI think there is a huge growth opportunity for that wellness aspect. People do not feel good in the insurance-based system and they want to feel good. They want to feel well. They want to get healthier, they don't want to just have the sick care model like that we have and they're looking for alternatives and I think DPC provides. We are perfectly situated to provide that to them.
(45:23):
Wayne LowryDescribe sick care. How would you define sick here?
Jordan SalmonSick care is essentially recognizing that I'm going to go to the doctor at the last possible second.
Jordan SalmonAnd that's really what insurance-based care is, right. If you think about insurance, insurance is really just, that's like the catastrophes. It's like, hey, when things are going really bad.
(45:47):
Jordan SalmonThat's when insurance steps in, sometimes and so it's not hypothetically, they're supposed to, right? That's what you're paying them for.
Wayne LowryHypothetically.
Wayne LowryThey're supposed to.
Wayne LowryThat's what they're contracted to do, but yeah.
Jordan SalmonExactly. And whether they do it or not. Yeah. OK. So, so sick carries, essentially, that it's that insurance-based model of like, hey, if there's an accident in my health, right. You know, like the car accident. If there's a healthcare accident with my health, that's when I'll get medical care.
(46:18):
Jordan SalmonAnd that's really what sick care is, it's just waiting until there's an accident. Waiting until, oh, my goodness, now you have diabetes. Instead of saying, hey, you know what it looks like we're on the trajectory to develop diabetes. Let's develop a plan to avoid that. That's really the kind of medicine that direct primary care is trying to develop.
(46:39):
Wayne LowrySo maybe another way I think about this in direct primary care, it's helping steer people to the most affordable option for their healthcare. So the most affordable option when you are not a full-fledged diabetic with the most expensive drugs is to catch it early.
Jordan SalmonYeah. Wayne Lowry And we hear about that like people are relieved when they say “ohh we caught the cancer early and we're able to do something about it” but at the same time we have how many stories have we heard? How many people have been in our lives that “Oh no, I must have just left, slept on my left arm wrong.” And then their heart attack.
(47:20):
Wayne LowryAnd then there's all of these complications of life because they never were preemptively looking at ways to help themselves and they didn't have someone in their corner that was intentional with them and providing the time with them and looking at their overall holistic healthcare needs.
(47:43):
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. I mean, my patients will come in to me earlier than they would have typically gone to the doctor before. And the reason for that is because I'm not charging them a copay, we're not doing co-insurance.
Jordan SalmonIt's they're already paying for the services. And so they're like, “hey, well, if we're paying for the services, if there's something I think I need to be seen for, let's chat about it” and so I'm able to see them sooner. Catch things sooner and it's easier to treat things when you take care of them sooner.
(48:12):
Wayne LowrySo what kind of advice would you give to someone that's looking at maybe they're in the traditional healthcare model and they're looking at becoming a DPC provider, what are some words of wisdom or words of advice you might give them?
(48:33):
Jordan SalmonYou'll never be ready, so just do it. I mean, I think there's just a lot of burnout in the insurance-based system, but then whenever you're trying to change or do something new, there's going to be a lot of challenges and struggles and fears and doubts and that's just part of being human.
(48:57):
Jordan SalmonAnd so you have to decide what you ultimately want down the road, right? It's just the same as a patient, right? When you got a patient coming in to see you, you're having to decide. Okay, do you want to actually live on this healthier trajectory? Potentially avoid heart attacks and avoid some of the potential things that we see down the road with your current trajectory that you're on?
(49:19):
Jordan SalmonAnd I think we're seeing the trajectory of the insurance-based system is not a trajectory that most physicians want to stay in and so you have to just decide if that's where you want to continue to chug along and stay and if you do then?
Jordan SalmonGood luck. Hope things go well for you, but I think I just see kind of a whole different type of medicine in DPC and I think a lot of people are hearing about it. It sounds great, but there's so many unknowns and it's challenging to do that.
(49:47):
Jordan SalmonBut I think it's so much more rewarding to do that, right? It's so much more rewarding to take that leap of faith and just say “We're going to try something different because we believe in a different kind of model that gives better care to people.” I mean, that's why I went into medicine, right?
Wayne LowryYeah.
Wayne LowrySo you know something I was gonna ask you is did you have someone that was really a mentor for you and direct primary care when you got in, was there someone that you were able to work closely with for a period of time?
(50:17):
Jordan SalmonThere have been a couple of physicians that I've talked to and just chatting with them about “how did you do this and how did you do that?”
Jordan SalmonAnd one of the things wasn't working and it's like, “hey, this isn't working” and he gave me some good advice to kind of revamp my marketing and do some different strategies and part of starting a business, you're just going to make a lot of mistakes.
(50:41):
Jordan SalmonAnd obviously, we all want to avoid making mistakes, right? That's the goal. But you also have to accept that part of the journey is going to require making mistakes in the process.
Jordan SalmonSo you just move forward with it and just say, you know what, my ultimate goal of having a better kind of career and better outcomes for my patients is a higher goal than the struggle and the challenges of making mistakes and losing money in some of these marketing strategies or you know all the things, the mistakes that you make as an early business owner, it's just part of that process.
(51:17):
Wayne LowrySo if you're talking to someone that's really considering making this jump, how would you encourage them related to managing a work life balance? How would that enter into the scene?
Jordan SalmonSo I've had better work life balance starting a business and it's been a major driver in why I'm doing direct primary care because I think in order to give the best care to my patients, I have to be in the best place myself.
(51:49):
Jordan SalmonAnd that means that I'm having a better balance with all of the demands that I have on my time and on my life. I'm a dad of five, right? And so I knew that I couldn't continue with the insurance-based model and continue to give the kind of care that I wanted to give my patients.
Jordan SalmonAnd so if you really want a better work life balance then I think you need to, as a primary care physician, DPC is going to be the future for us.
(52:16):
Wayne LowryAwesome. Well, we've got one last section I want to jump into before we wrap up this podcast. A little section I like to call “Keeping It Reels.”
Wayne LowryThe purpose of this section is a rapid fire. When asked some quick questions, give me a short answer. I cannot promise you'll go viral on social media, but I will do my best to put it out there. So I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions.
(52:43):
Wayne LowryJust throw out what you think might be a good answer and we'll go with it. So, are you ready? You ready for this? Keeping It Reels, alright, number one, what is the most surprising thing you've learned about running a DPC practice?
Jordan SalmonOkay.
Jordan SalmonStarting a business is hard. It's real hard. But it's worth it.
(53:09):
Wayne LowryAlright, number two, if you could have a superpower to help you with your practice, what would that superpower be?
Jordan SalmonI would divide myself into six different people and have them all be working on 6 different tasks at the same time.
Wayne LowrySo it's easier to multiply yourself than just hire people. Is that what you're telling me?
(53:33):
Jordan SalmonWell, when you hire someone, you have to train them on doing it the way that you want it done and getting it how you want it to be, so…
Wayne LowryGotcha. You are a US Air Force veteran. How has your military experience shaped your approach to healthcare?
Jordan SalmonOh, so I am much more adaptable I think. I'll tell you a quick story. I deployed. I had one hour. I was given one hour to deploy. They called me up. I had just worked a 24-hour shift and then I deployed and within an hour was gone again. So that was crazy. But that's just the adaptability that you learn in the Air Force.
(54:17):
Wayne LowryLast question, what one thing would you tell your younger self about healthcare?
Jordan SalmonOh. I would say that it's going to be a challenge. You're going to learn a lot and just keep going.
Wayne LowryJust keep going. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Jordan. Appreciate your time today. That's it for today's episode of the Best DPC podcast, a huge thank you to Dr. Jordan Salmon for joining us and sharing his incredible journey to learn more about his work, make sure you check out his website.
(54:58):
Wayne LowryAll of this will be in the show notes so you can click on the link yourself or if you want to type it in later, it's healthrisingdpc.com to visit his website, you can follow him on Instagram at Health Rising DPC.
Wayne LowryFor more DPC goodness, head over to bestdpc.com, where you're gonna find reviews and directories of DPC's all across America. Look for those that are featured, if they're featured, it means hey, they are wanting your business and they want to be in a primary care relationship with you. So please check out bestdpc.com. Follow us on social media.
(55:40):
Wayne LowryPlease, it costs you nothing to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Like, comment, share, click the notification bell, that's all. That's all I ask and l won’t ask for a single dime for many of you people they're watching, but please help share the message. Do you like audio podcasts only? Is that your preference? Fine.
(56:01):
Wayne LowryFollow us on any one of your favorite podcast channels until next time. Remember, your health matters, demand the best with direct primary care. Bye bye.
Jordan SalmonWe had been hit by Hurricane Beryl. Electricity was completely out and I was just starting up my business. So we—--you know—---we didn't have a huge empanelment. And so we kinda just shut things down. But then I got a call from someone who had cut themself with a chainsaw.
(00:19):
Jordan SalmonAnd they were like, “Hey, we need some help. Can you take care of us?” And so I was like,” Well, yeah, come on over.” So he came over to my office, and I stitched him up in my office without electricity.
Jordan SalmonSo it was Hurricane Beryl, middle of the day, no electricity, super hot, sweaty. Doing these stitches, probably one of the hardest jobs I've done in terms of stitching and—--but we got them taken care of in the middle of Hurricane Beryl. I mean, you know, just after Hurricane Beryl. Doing all the cleanup and all that craziness.
(00:51):
Wayne LowryI mean, that's Direct Primary Care for you right there.
Jordan SalmonThat's Direct Primary Care, right? Just meeting people where they're at.
Wayne LowryLike, middle of a hurricane, stitching somebody up, they cut themselves with a chainsaw like nothing more Direct Primary Care than that.
Jordan SalmonThat's right. Yeah. It's kind of crazy.
(01:19):
Wayne LowryHello and welcome to the Best DPC podcast, the World's #1 podcast covering all things Direct Primary Care. I am your host, Wayne Lowry. I am not a doctor, but I once beat my sister in the game of operation.
Wayne LowryToday, I'm thrilled to have with me Doctor Jordan Salmon. He is a family physician, US Air Force veteran, a father of five, and the founder of Health Rising Direct Primary Care based in North Houston in Humble, TX.
(01:49):
Wayne LowryFrom serving in the military to transforming healthcare with DPC, Doctor Salmon's Story is one you won't wanna miss. So, let's dive in and introduce Doctor Salmon. Welcome to the podcast.
Jordan SalmonThank you very much for having me. Pleasure to be here.
Wayne LowrySo you are—-so tell me a little bit about yourself and what are you doing right now?
(02:14):
Jordan SalmonSo yeah, I’m a family physician like you mentioned. I was in the US Air Force, got my training over at Nellis Air Force Base in Las Vegas. Great experience for me there. I went to England, I deployed to England or didn't deploy, I was PCS.
Jordan SalmonSo, they moved me to England for a few years. I was working in the emergency room there and that was kind of where my whole DPC story began. It was more of a health story actually. So for me personally, I wasn't doing very well from a health perspective.
(02:49):
Wayne LowryHow so?
Jordan SalmonIt was pandemic, so my hours actually got cut a little bit because there was no one going in the emergency room.
Jordan SalmonSo, they didn't need me as much. I had more time to do lazy things, and so I did more lazy things, and my health declined. I hit the obesity threshold, and I was depressed. We were far from family. And it was kind of a struggle for me at that time.
(03:16):
Wayne LowrySo you packed on your COVID 15 lbs or what?
Jordan SalmonMy COVID pounds. Yeah, they accumulated pretty rapidly. I mean, I had always kind of struggled with my weight, and this kind of took it to a new level. Right. And so I wasn't in a good place, and that's when I started to say, “Hey, I need to make some changes, but I'm a doctor, so I should know the answers.”
(03:41):
Jordan SalmonAnd so I went to see myself. It was like, “Alright, Doctor Salmon, tell me what we need to do. Right, you're obese, you're struggling with depression.” And I didn't have the answers that I wanted to have at that time. I was like, “Ok, well, you gotta lose weight. And you know, depression, you can see a therapist or here's a pill.” Didn't have great answers for myself.
(04:03):
Wayne LowryI was gonna say, you know, always when you start with talking about yourself in the third person, that's a little bit of a red flag right there. So are you sure you're okay now? Do you still refer to yourself as Doctor Salmon? I mean that's…
Jordan SalmonI am, yeah. So it was the beginning for me of a health revolution. Right? And that started my journey into discovering DPC and recognizing some of the needs that we really have. So I started changing quite a bit.
(04:30):
Jordan SalmonI learned a lot about things that we don't talk as much about in the healthcare setting. The things that really get someone to be healthy. And so we started making significant nutrition changes, exercise changes, getting better sleep. I learned a lot about mental health from a whole new perspective and how we can improve our mental health and ended up…
(04:51):
Wayne LowryWell, I'm excited to dive into some of those topics related to your passion and what you're doing with your practice, before we jump into that, though, I wanna ask you a little bit about your personal life and some of the things that you're involved in. What do you do for fun?
Jordan SalmonSure, sure. Yeah.
Jordan SalmonYeah. OK. Yeah, I see where you're at now. So, for me, I love sports. I like watching sports. I like college football more than NFL.
(05:18):
Wayne LowryOK, what's your team?
Jordan SalmonI went to BYU, so that was my undergrad, and so I still cheer for BYU even though I'm in Houston. This is where the Houston Cougars are. So I'm not BYU cougar. I don't say that too loudly, but yeah, that's who I cheer for..
Wayne LowryWell, you can just say I'm a Cougar fan or, no, don't say that.
Jordan SalmonThat's right. That's right. I'm a Cougar fan.
Wayne LowryIt's important to add that S at the end if you just say you're a cougar fan, people might actually have some real questions about sending anyone over. So let's be real careful about our terminology there. That's my bad.
(05:46):
Jordan SalmonThere you go. That's right, that's right.
Wayne LowrySo, you enjoy college football? I love college football. In fact, I think on a previous podcast, I think I might talk about this every podcast, to be honest. We're getting our own collegiate team down here in the Rio Grande Valley, and I am pumped. I've got my season tickets on order. We'll be doing seat assignment next month or later this month, and yeah, so we're pumped to have college football.
(06:19):
Jordan SalmonYeah. No, I love sports. And my kids all play sports. So, you know, I'm a coach for one of my daughter’s soccer teams, so heavily involved in sports and love, you know, being active.
Wayne LowryNow you said one of your daughters. How many kids do you have?
Jordan SalmonI have five kids. Yep. So, three daughters. Two of my daughters are in soccer, and then I'm the coach for one of their teams. Yeah.
Wayne LowryFive kids.
(06:42):
Wayne LowryNow, are your daughters the oldest? Do you have a bunch of girls and then some boys at the end? Or they all mixed in?
Jordan SalmonWe have we got book in boys, so first one's a boy. Last one's a boy. And I think that's how it'll be.
Wayne LowryWell, I asked that because I was a girl dad, you know, for the longest. So I have two girls, and then I have my son. And that's one of the challenges. You know, when you're used to raising girls, you kind of understand things. And then all of a sudden the boys different, and I have a friend who's good friend, who's the opposite. He's a bunch of boys, and then he has a girl, and it's like okay, you gotta rethink everything when you are used to parenting 1 gender, not just having them both intermixed in the chain.
(07:24):
Jordan SalmonYeah, it definitely changes things up for sure yeah.
Wayne LowryAnd on top of that, you got a business, you're in the sports, you've got a business, you're a busy man, I assume.
Jordan SalmonYeah, we're very busy.
Wayne LowrySo, when we were discussing this podcast, I noticed you were born in Canada. So tell me about that. How long did you live in Canada?
(07:48):
Jordan SalmonSo I didn't live in Canada long, but I was born there. My parents moved when I was a baby. For my dad to go to school, came down to the States, and then we just visited Canada pretty regularly, so I still enjoy Canada. They've got probably better chocolate than we have in America, and yeah.
Wayne LowryReally? So chocolate of all the things I've never heard, people I was assuming you're going to be like, you know, really enjoy the Maple syrup or something, I don't know, but chocolate?
(08:17):
Jordan SalmonMaple syrup is good, too, yeah. They've got a handful of different candies that, you know, candy bars and chocolate bars and things like that that we don't have here in the US.
Wayne LowryWell, you could pay. You could pay like a 25% tariff and get it.
Wayne LowryHold on. Just to be clear, not making a political statement, just making an observation that if you want chocolate it would cost you know 25% more right now.
(08:41):
Jordan SalmonThat's true. It's better to just fly to Canada now.
Wayne LowryIt's cheaper to fly to Canada, eat all the chocolates you want. So, you mentioned a little bit about your health journey and your transformation. Now, you lost a tremendous amount of weight when you started your practice, right? Or leading into your practice. Tell us about that.
Jordan SalmonSo yeah, like I was mentioning. That was a challenging time in life where I was. Didn't really feel very good and had to learn a lot about losing weight. I've come to realize, you know, weight loss is extremely hard.
(09:16):
Jordan SalmonI see a lot of patients who struggle with it, and especially in America, my weight loss happened in England. So I think it's a little bit easier there, right? We don't have as many fast food restaurants. They have, actually, very different laws regarding the types of foods that they're allowed to sell in stores and things like that.
Jordan SalmonBut, needless to say, I learned a lot just about making small changes. how to improve my health ended up losing 65 lbs. And felt tremendously better. I mean, you know, that was an entire child that, you know, I was carrying around, and so losing that weight really reshaped the way that I think about health and the way that I approach treating patients.
(09:54):
Wayne LowryI think, to be honest, I think if I lived in England and had to eat green peas every day, I would probably lose 65 lbs.
Jordan SalmonI know, so maybe I shouldn't say it's a great thing. I should just say, you know, it just happened because I was in England, right, and everyone loses weight.
Wayne LowryBut really I think that's interesting. You know, I think about a trip I took to Italy. I spent two weeks in Italy and lost weight, eating pizza and, you know, enjoying the cuisine and actually lost weight came back here, tried to eat the same thing.
(10:25):
Wayne LowryForget about it. Like, I'm going to pack on the bounce. So, there's something to be said about what is in the American diet versus what ingredients are in the same style of food in European countries. So maybe we'll dive into that. Maybe we'll look at that here in a minute.
Wayne LowrySo you lost a lot of weight, you've gotten involved in this health journey and that's been part of your inspiration and motivation to open up your own Direct Primary Care clinic. So, what are you doing with Health Rising? What are some of the goals? And just tell us a little bit about your clinic.
(11:11):
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. So Health Rising Direct Primary Care. So we are a clinic, I mean a lot of the goals that we have are aligned with most DPC practices where I think that the care that we deliver and the insurance-based system just is not great care.
Jordan SalmonPeople are being rushed in and rushed out. We're treating them kind of like they're on a conveyor belt and you just got to get them in and get them out. And it doesn't end up being good medicine. We're treating diseases as opposed to treating people. And that's not the way that we need healthcare to be, right?
(11:44):
Jordan SalmonSo at Health Rising Direct Primary Care, we try and treat people like people, right? We listen to them. We try and let them know that they're seen. We let them know that they're heard and that we are here to be their team member and work with them as opposed to just giving them a list of things that they need to do on their own and send them out the door as quick as we can.
Wayne LowrySo if someone were to walk into your clinic, what would be the first thing that they would notice? Tell me about like that first experience of walking.
(12:11):
Jordan SalmonFirst thing is they're going to see me greeting them at the door, and they're not going to wait in the waiting room. So they don't have to wait.
Wayne LowryHold on. I'm gonna stop you right there. So how else are they going to know what's happening in the National Geographic from 1984?
Jordan SalmonYou know, that's a good point. And so if people are really interested in that stuff, you know, they can go back to insurance-based care and learn all they want to know about that. But here we just try and take care of their health. That's what we do.
(12:40):
Wayne LowryI got you. So they walk in, you greet them at the door. How big is your lobby?
Jordan SalmonSo we share a lobby with a dermatologist here. And so you know for right now that's kind of where our space is at and it's a great you know good sized lobby but then we're off on the side, we've got a couple of rooms and we take care of patients over there. And so pretty much getting you right in the room right off the bat.
(13:03):
Wayne LowrySo, you have the patients that are—we're going to talk about about the person you've been—so, don't get the wrong idea, but I'm thinking about if the dermatologist is practicing in traditional care, then I'm guessing they've got people in the waiting room and your people are just walking right in, coming straight in. There's probably a little bit of envy there. I mean, if we're being honest.
Jordan SalmonYeah. And so, absolutely. I mean our patients aren't waiting, right. They're coming right in and and they don't have to wait, we just don't believe in that kind of medicine.
(13:35):
Wayne LowrySo they walk in, you greet them at the door, you take them back. You've got how many little exam rooms or triage set up or what do you have.?
Jordan SalmonWe have two rooms, so we'll just—-we usually do vitals and kind of check them in in one of those rooms. I've got a staff member that helps me out with getting that done. We're a very small clinic and the way that we're able to help pass on savings is by keeping things small and keeping it that way.
(14:04):
Wayne LowryGotcha. So you got them. You have somebody that's helping get them checked in. Now when they walk in, are you handing them a big sack of paperwork to fill out? How do you even know who they are?
Jordan SalmonSo I know all my patients just by seeing them come in the door. That's something that I didn't know beforehand, right before I would have to ask everyone what their name was, but at this stage I'm, you know, I know every one of my patients by name. So they're walking in and I see you. And I know who you are. So we're taking care of you right away.
(14:39):
Wayne LowryAwesome.
Wayne LowryI want to take a quick break to talk about bestdpc.com. Are you a doctor looking to break free from the headaches of insurance and take control of your practice? Or maybe you're an employer searching for an affordable healthcare solution that actually works.
Wayne LowryAt bestdpc.com we cut through the noise and connect you with the country's best Direct Primary Care clinics. Whether you're a patient tired of surprise medical bills or a physician ready to build a thriving membership-based practice.
(15:09):
Wayne LowryWe've got the tools and resources you need. Find the best DPC doctors near you. Get expert advice and take the first step towards better healthcare.
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(15:30):
Wayne LowrySo what kind of tool stack—-sorry your tech stack. Thinking about the tools that you're using. You've got people coming in. They've got that elevated customer experience they get to see their doctor right away. They know you. You know them. You're getting them set up. They're not out there waiting.
(15:51):
Wayne LowryWhat are you doing as far as tech goes to help through that process? So tell us a little bit about your tech stack. Let's geek out about tech.
Jordan SalmonAbsolutely. So I love my system. My EMR system is amazing because it will send, you know, it has automatic reminders for my patients. So they get their text reminders automatically the day before.
(16:13):
Wayne LowryTell me what system are you using?
Jordan SalmonI use Atlas MD.
Wayne LowryAtlas. Yeah. Tell us how it works.
Jordan SalmonIt's a really good system, it works—you know it integrates automatically with my medical—like my note keeping, all of that is together with my texting, and my phone calls, and billing, right? So it's all kind of a one system that works pretty well for me.
(16:40):
Jordan SalmonAnd so it automatically sends text reminders to my patients beforehand. And if I want to send them texts, I do that directly from my EMR system so that I'm not having a text conversation with the patient and then having to make notes about what we talked about later.
Jordan SalmonIt's just automatically in their system in their chart, so they can text me personally, we have those conversations regularly. And that's just part of their record, their medical records. It's kind of a private room.
(17:04):
Wayne LowryOK, so I was going to say so. If they texted you, I'm guessing that the text messaging then is picked up through your system or Atlas.
Jordan SalmonYeah, it's automatically integrated. So any text they send me just get uploaded into their chart and it's through the system that we can perform that text messaging.
(17:27):
Wayne LowryAlright, So what other pieces of tech are you using?
Jordan SalmonSo I use some AI as well. So you know AI is here to stay. It's just part of our lives today and it helps me with writing notes and kind of making my system and my part more efficient so that I can spend more time with my patients.
Wayne LowryNow is that integrated in your EMR?
(17:51):
Jordan SalmonIt is, yeah. So the AI is—-there's multiple tools for that AI where I can use it to, you know, automatically draft. So, I'll you know, review patients’ labs, for example, and we're reviewing their labs and then the AI just automatically integrates that into a note that I can then send to the patient so that they can kind of see it really nicely aligned.
Jordan SalmonSee all my review on what's going on with their labs or, you know, other things like we get a bunch of records sent in from another clinic, and AI helps me just analyze that information and pull out those pertinent details, put it into the patient's chart so that then we can make sure that we're getting them good care.
(18:28):
Wayne LowryWell, you know, with a lot of concerns that come out through, you know, privacy concerns, the fact that it's integrated into the system is probably a bit of comfort.
Jordan SalmonYeah, I mean, I'm not going to ChatGPT to ask him—you know,”Hey, here's my patient. What should we do about this?” Right, we're not doing any of that.
Wayne Lowry“Here's my patient. Here's how old they are. Here's where they live. That's how much money they make. You're going to keep that private for me, right? AI, you're not going to send a drone after them are you?”
(18:58):
Wayne LowryWell so, that's interesting cause yeah, the different AI models that are out there, I'm curious—-what they—-And I'll do my own research on that. I'm curious what AI model they're tied in with whether it's a one of the open source models like a llama, or hopefully not DeepSeek. I'm just saying, or if it's one of the closed models like OpenAI, ChatGPT or Claude or Grock. I mean—-there's so many—-there's so many advancements right now, with AI. It's seems like every day there's some new announcement or some new way to integrate it into your practice.
(19:37):
Wayne LowrySo for you, you feel like the AI has boosted your ability to do what? To provide clearer notes to shorten your time, administrative headache? Like what would you say AI is helping the best for you?
Jordan SalmonSo. AI is helping to streamline the administrative burden so that I can be more efficient with the things that I'm most effective at, which is taking good care of patients right being there for them.
(20:10):
Jordan SalmonBecause in your typical insurance-based clinic right we would have like a 20 minute appointment, but I'd spend at least 25% of that time just doing documentation, charting, trying to do all that stuff. And so AI is helping to streamline that so that the majority of my time with the patient is with the patient.
Wayne LowrySo what are you doing for virtual care? Do you have any particular system you're using on that?
(20:36):
Jordan SalmonSo my Atlas MD does that as well. So I have a—--it's got telemedicine services just integrated with my EMR system and so my patients when they book their appointments they can do—-they can book a face to face visit, but if they're like “Hey, I want this to be a virtual appointment.” We just book it as a virtual appointment and then I send them a link through my EMR and then automatically pulls up and we have a quick chat virtually.
(21:01):
Jordan SalmonIt's been great. I've had patients that have given me great comments that it's, you know, it's streamlined, it's fast, it doesn't take them a lot of time to log on to the system or. figuring it out. So that's been awesome.
Wayne LowryGotcha. So what would you say now? What about other tech? Are you a Google person? Are you using Microsoft products? What are you using just to help with your administrative work?
(21:24):
Jordan SalmonThat's a good question. I mean, I like Google and I think Google helps me out quite a bit just with, you know, a lot of their basic Google Docs and things like that, compiling information and getting patient notes and or like, not patient notes, but like the patient instruction.
Jordan SalmonYou know, if I want to send a patient instructions and things like that, I can have that all in Google Docs because my goal is I don't think we should be sending faxes anymore. I don't think we should be doing paper anymore. I don't hand my patients paper. They don't hand me paper like we just make things electronic. That's the way that our current world should be.
(22:02):
Wayne LowryYeah. So how—then will anyone be able to judge your penmanship for prescription writing? If you're doing everything? And I mean—-you are a doctor after all—-I mean, there is a standard of scribbledness that we all expect.
Jordan SalmonThat is true. Unfortunately then, most people just—-they don't know, and they'll probably never get to see that anymore. So that will be, you know, my penmanship will just stay horrendous, but nobody will ever realize how horrendous it really is and that's the thing.
(22:32):
Wayne LowryI think we should probably go ahead and add that into the show notes. I'll send you a notepad, let you scribble, and then take a picture and send it over.
Jordan SalmonI'm just using AI. I have them right before me.
Wayne LowryYou say recreate—recreate it. Okay, so we talked a little bit about tech, your tech stack. What about—-what are you seeing like a typical day at Health Rising? How many patients are you seeing? How big is your panel? What's kind of your goal for your practice?
(23:00):
Wayne LowryWhen it comes to how many people you want to see, you want to add more providers, you know. What are some of those things—-you know a typical day and and what are you looking towards?
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. So we're a really young practice. We only opened up last year. So we're at 100 patients and we're looking to grow. I, you know, I probably will have around 500 patients for each provider and eventually we will grow to have multiple providers.
(23:31):
Jordan SalmonI really see a Direct Primary Care model that incorporates all of your basic primary care needs, any of your chronic care needs, really helping patients to optimize their health. So I envision a system where we involve a lot of…like physical therapy and our therapy services, right, mental health therapy services, all of those things to have them incorporated so that our patients can have access to all of those things. And what that will actually look like. I'm excited to find out. I don't think I have all those answers yet but those are things, that's kind of the vision that I have for the long term.
(24:12):
Wayne LowryNow what about pricing? What are you? Are you in family pricing? You're doing individual pricing kind of how—what's your approach to that? I know every mark is going to be different, so anyone listening to this, knows what goes for Humble TX. I guarantee it’s not the same, that goes to New York City, NY.
Jordan SalmonAbsolute and I've learned really fast that you can't compare, right? I mean, I think I started doing that, especially when you're getting, you're gaining your empanelment and “You're like, wow, this is going slower than I thought.”
(24:43):
Jordan SalmonYou have to recognize that every location has its different, you know, things are going to progress differently and you got to just do—--focus on you and on what your systems are, you know where you're at.
Jordan SalmonSo for us, our pricing is $99.00 for anyone 20 to 44 and then above 45 and up is $139.00. And that's the monthly price. We do do an enrollment fee to get people onboarded and help with some of those annual labs, but we include those annual labs with your membership.
(25:13):
Wayne LowryOkay, so do you draw the labs there?
Jordan SalmonYep, yeah—--we do—--We try and create a lot of conveniences, right? So we do our labs in-house. So that way patients don't have to make multiple stops.
Wayne LowryOkay, cool.
Wayne LowrySo I wanna transition now—if it's OK—to talk a little bit about preventative care ‘cause I know that's a real big passion of yours with wellness and considering that aspect of your practice. You mentioned your personal health journey, how has your personal health journey transformed how you look at medicine and its role—the role of Wellness and medicine and healthy living, and how is that integrated into your practice?
(25:59):
Jordan SalmonI think that that is a huge driver for the way that I practice medicine and a big reason for why I started my practice. I believe in a very different kind of healthcare than the insurance-based model. I think insurance-based care is…
(26:21):
Jordan SalmonIt's essentially stuck in—it's got a lot of problems with it, right? And we could try and get into every single one of those problems. And I just think that direct primary care solves a lot of those issues. It's a model where the way that our insurance-based healthcare is going to make money is if we get as many people on as many medications as possible and having as many procedures as possible and seeing the doctor as often as possible.
(26:52):
Jordan SalmonAnd none of those things were what were needed for me to get healthy and get to where I'm at. And so the answers—and this is kind of what I talk about with my patients—the real answers to health are within us as humans, right?
Jordan SalmonIt's in us and learning how to bring that out of us with the way that we're living our lives and choosing a different pattern of living helps us to live better and feel better. And that's really the key to health. And so I try to help patients with that. It's a lot of like lifestyle medicine, right, integrative medicine.
(27:29):
Jordan SalmonThere's a lot of different terms for different ways to think about it, but I just try to think of it as health, right? What gets someone healthy? What gets someone to feeling really good, feeling well and living their lives in that way so that they're loving their lives. And it's really the key to helping someone to, you know, that's what's going to help someone who's struggling with diabetes, someone who's struggling with high blood pressure.
(27:53):
Jordan SalmonThe answer is, you know, we've gone to medication so often because that's how the billing models are set up in the insurance-based system.
Jordan SalmonBut you can treat those things without medications, right? If we're living differently and we start eating differently and we start sleeping better and we start connecting socially, that can improve our mental health. That can improve our blood pressure. That can improve these things that we focus on, and we try and push, you know, a lot of the things that the insurance-based system is pushing.
(28:23):
Wayne LowrySo you mentioned sleep, you mentioned what we eat. So tell us, you know, in your mind, how important the right diet, the right sleep or right amount of sleep, like how does all that kind of mix in healthy living?
(28:44):
Wayne LowryWhat are some ways that you see that we should really focus in those areas and what kind of success do we see?
Jordan SalmonWell, CDC said 60 to 80% of our chronic diseases are caused by lifestyle choices, right? So, if people are living—if we get ourselves to live healthy lifestyles, we can absolutely, significantly decrease the burden of these chronic diseases that we're struggling with in our country today.
(29:17):
Wayne LowryWhat? What does the healthy style look like?
Jordan SalmonSo—
Wayne LowryHealthy living, sorry.
Jordan SalmonYeah. So, I think that we often get stuck in that paradigm of like, you know, what is the healthy answer, right? And we try to make things really black and white. I admit there's a lot more gray to it, right? And it's not going to be perfect for every single person.
Jordan SalmonAnd that's why we need direct primary care where we're able to adjust your “healthy living" for you based on you and not compare that to your neighbor and say, “that's how you need to live,” right? “That's how you need to eat.”
(29:53):
Jordan SalmonAnd you know that's—a lot of the weight loss programs and a lot of the things that we have today are pushing a lot of: “This is the answer. You have to do it this way,” and that's really not the answer. The answer is for you to figure out, “Okay, well, how is this going to work for me?”, “How am I going to make this happen for me?” And you can go through each one of those. You know, the main components of healthy living. You're looking at getting really good sleep, right? Adequate sleep on a regular basis.
(30:22):
Wayne LowrySo 4 hours a night, every other night?
Jordan SalmonThere you go.
Jordan SalmonNo, so you know, you got to be sleeping…it's going to be somewhere between seven to nine hours of sleep. Generally for most adults, right? And that's going to vary. You're going to have bad nights. You're going to have—I've got a baby at home and it doesn't happen like that every night.
(30:47):
Jordan SalmonAnd so, you're having to adjust to your current status of where things are at for you and that's hard for patients to do and hard for patients to understand, but that's what you gotta do. You gotta recognize that you can't just pinpoint it and say, “Oh, you gotta get 8 hours of sleep every night if you're not getting 8 hours of sleep, then that's the end for you.” Like, you got to be willing to let yourself be human.
(31:09):
Jordan SalmonThat's a huge part of being human, right? And accepting that, “Alright, I'm a human. I'm gonna have a baby at home, and that's gonna change my sleep patterns, and that's okay. And I'm gonna get through this, and it's going to be a little different season of life for me.” And then when we get out of that season, then we start adjusting to try and help it improve.
Jordan SalmonAnd…that's really how we improve our health is we are continually adjusting and changing as we grow and as we adapt and as—you know—the way that our human body breaks down and we move forward in life, it's going to change the way the amount of sleep that we're going to get and how well we get that sleep and all the other components of healthy living, right?
(31:53):
Jordan SalmonSo, you're looking at the—I was going to mention them, right? Jordan Salmon I think it's important to kind of know, “Alright, well, what are the things that we focus on?” There's a lot of them, right? The ones that I try to focus on with my patients are sleep, getting really good sleep and trying to get adequate sleep for that time period of your life as well as we can, right? And then nutrition, eating Whole Foods, right?
Wayne LowryLike the whole bag of onions?
(32:14):
Jordan SalmonThe whole? Yeah, we've got a lot of processed foods in our country and we're not eating nearly enough fruits and vegetables. And so we're trying to supplement our lack of nutrition in our diet and that's not the way that it needs to be. You know, you focus on your diet to get your diet right, and then the supplements are where that diet is not giving you what you need.
Jordan SalmonSo, having good nutrition is really important.
(32:38):
Jordan SalmonAnd then, stress management, mental health, right? Those are huge components. It's really about the way that our thoughts are and I probably won't go too deep into that, but that's something I try to help my patients with, recognizing thought patterns and changing those thought patterns to help them as they're moving forward with their mental health.
Jordan SalmonAnd then social connection is a huge one, right? We want to connect socially with people. We want to be seen and we want people to see, we want to see other people and connect on a deep level.
(33:09):
Wayne LowryI mean, that's why we have, you know, this video going right now. I feel so connected to you right now. Right? Ain’t that what happened during COVID? People turned to virtual meetings. And what happened to our mental health?
Jordan SalmonYeah, I mean, you can see it, right? You can see the struggle that goes on there and we realize, “Ohh, that's a pretty critical component of our health.”
(33:33):
Jordan SalmonAnd to connect with people socially, we are social creatures as humans and we need to connect socially on a regular basis and that is something that I try and help my patients to do, right? Making goals on that, working towards that, it's something that helps improve your health absolutely.
Wayne LowrySo, did you go through all seven? I'm not really good at math.
(33:55):
Jordan SalmonLet's see. I think I hit most of them…I mean, those are the main components, right?
Wayne LowryHow about this? At the end of this, I'm gonna have everybody connected to you. So, if we watch this podcast and we're like, “Hey, he missed one,” they can reach out to you and schedule a consultation and maybe become members.
(34:16):
Jordan SalmonThere you go. So, we're not going to give you all the answers here because you gotta come see me.
Wayne LowryThat's right. And if you're in Cleveland, OH, there is a direct flight to the Intercontinental airport in Houston, TX. So you could be—
Jordan SalmonOr we do telemedicine. We do telemedicine.
Wayne LowryOh, OK, well, there you go.
(34:37):
Wayne LowrySo, part of your practice now, I understand you're starting to work with some small employer groups as well, right? So I guess some of your panel or most of your panels, probably private individuals that found you through your marketing efforts or just being known in the Community or a referral from a friend, but now you're starting to see local businesses and do some corporate wellness type work. Tell us a little bit about that and what you're seeing as far as impact.
(35:07):
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. So that's one of the great benefits of DPC, right? We can provide really unparalleled access to medical services to businesses and that's really what businesses—that's the reason that they wanted to provide medical services, right?
Jordan SalmonThey want to…they want their employees to be healthy and they want them to not miss work and they want them to do good work and to enjoy their job and to stay at their job. And that's what DPC provides, right?
(35:38):
Jordan SalmonYou're getting really good retention in your employees because you're working with the DPC. You're getting them really good care. They know what their health's at. They can get access to care really fast, so they're not missing time, they're more productive at work.
Jordan SalmonAnd so for an employer, it just makes a lot of sense to say, “Hey, let's use DPC, we can actually cut a lot of costs, give our employees really good access to care, they get better care, it's personalized and they're giving me better work.” And that's…I mean, isn't that what you want as an employee?
(36:08):
Wayne LowryTake a quick break to talk about scalebyseo.com.
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(36:30):
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(36:53):
Wayne LowrySo on top of that, like I mentioned, you're working with small businesses, you're starting to see an impact with that.
Wayne LowryWhat about just on a very personal level? What are some of the successes you've seen working in direct primary care? I don't think we mentioned this specifically or asked this specifically, but how much time do you typically spend with the patient and how has that additional time over traditional medicine maybe enhanced some outcomes for you?
(37:25):
Jordan SalmonSo, I have a lot of patients that have had significant improvements in their health with working with me and I think that is in part because of the time that I'm able to spend with my patients. I'm spending at least an hour with my patients on an initial visit and then follow up visits usually like 1/2 an hour.
Jordan SalmonAnd in the insurance-based system, when I was working in insurance-based care right, you're probably getting 10 minutes if you're lucky to be, you know, with your physician. But it's not the kind of care and it's not the kind of personalization because in those 10 minutes, I'm having to get to know you for the first time. So now, I already know you and we're spending that time.
(38:05):
Jordan SalmonWe already have things that we're working on. We know where your health is at, what your health goals are at, and we're able to work a lot better at moving you, moving that needle more significantly towards improving your health outcomes. And so, I think it's having really good results in that regard.
Wayne LowryAwesome.
Wayne LowryAll right. So, is there a particular success story that comes to mind?
(38:28):
Jordan SalmonYeah. So I mean, I talked with my patients about, I call it like the health rising pathway to walk through that would probably take an entire podcast. We won't go there, but it's essentially the process of making little changes and how you make those small changes on a regular basis to get to where you want to be to make these big goals.
(38:49):
Jordan SalmonLosing 65 pounds, for example, right? It takes time. So, I've had some patients who have worked with me on that pathway and have lost a notable amount of weight, have improved their mental health and are just feeling a lot better.
Jordan SalmonAnd I think that it speaks volumes for the kind of medicine that we're trying to practice, where it's not your quick fix type medicine in the insurance-based system that we're seeing that it's just not working like we often want it to.
(39:14):
Wayne LowryMm-hmm.
Wayne LowryWell, let's transition to another topic. I want to talk about the future of DPC.
Wayne LowryAnd maybe what you're seeing in your practice in your community and what are some of the opportunities you see going forward with DPC. Now, obviously you're in a very large market and not everybody that's listening to this podcast can relate to being in Houston and competing in the Houston market.
(39:44):
Wayne LowryBut in any market, whether there's a couple million people that live, you know, within 60 miles of you or a couple thousand people that live within 60 miles of you, there's going to be challenges in growing your practice. So, what are some of the things that you have seen? What are some ways that you found success that could relate to maybe anyone that's listening to growing their practice, like what are you seeing as successful things to help grow your practice?
(40:14):
Jordan SalmonSo I mean, it's a lot like small business work, right? You gotta network, you gotta learn how to connect with people and you gotta do it really quickly and efficiently. And so, that's where I'm seeing the most success: person to person, one person hearing about me. And there's times when you don't realize what kind of business you're going to get from these small encounters.
(40:37):
Jordan SalmonAnd so, you really have to just put yourself out there. That's one of the challenges of starting a business that might be an uncomfortable thing to do as a doctor, right? We're not used to that. It's not something that we've had to do to market ourselves. And that can feel awkward at times.
Jordan SalmonBut you have to recognize, like, “Hey there, there's a demand for this. People want this. Whenever people hear about this, they're very intrigued. It's an exciting topic. People want to talk about this and there's a lot of people that don't know about it.” And so I'm doing a lot of educating, a lot of one-on-one conversations, lunches, just talking to people about what DPC is, how it can benefit them.
(41:18):
Jordan SalmonAnd you know, some of the challenges that I see is a lot of people are stuck in the insurance-based mindset and they are like, “Well, I have my insurance-based care and that's kind of what we have.” But then they have friends who maybe don't have that or you know, there's certain professions that need DPC or they're like “Hey, I don't have great insurance with my business or with where I'm at,” and so we can fill a lot of those gaps for them.
(41:47):
Jordan SalmonSo, it's a lot of just finding those people and that's through word of mouth, that's through networking, that's through connecting with people and letting them know that this is an alternative. This is an option. This is available. And then people want to engage with it and connect to it.
Wayne LowrySo you talked about networking. What type of networking opportunities are you involved in?
(42:10):
Jordan SalmonYeah. So I try and leverage my patients, right? So my patients, you know, I have patients who are business owners. I have patients who have colleagues who are business owners. And so it's finding them and saying, “Hey, I'd love the chance to just talk with, you know, talk with your boss. I'd love to come and talk with your employees and just tell them what I do, what I'm offering, and how we can serve them and meet some of these medical needs that they have going on.”
(42:36):
Jordan SalmonI am involved with some other networking groups, right? So, I've joined the Chamber of Commerce. I've joined the BNI, which is a networking group. And in those groups, we're connecting with other business owners and we're talking to them about what we do and about how DPC can solve a lot of the issues and the challenges that they have of providing great benefits to their employees.
Jordan SalmonAnd right now we're seeing insurance prices continuing to rise pretty significantly and I think a lot of—and then you know and with inflation and just how things are at right now—I think a lot of business owners are looking for alternative solutions to meet the medical needs of their employees.
(43:14):
Wayne LowryYeah. So you mentioned BNI, I'm guessing those type of groups:Chambers, BMI not only is giving you new relationships, but also helping you refine your pitch, right? Because there aren't really great opportunities to say, “Hey, what resonates with somebody,” you know? You might say it 10 different ways to 10 different people to find out, “Hey, this is what really resonates.”
(43:37):
Jordan SalmonYes, yes, absolutely. And what are those things that get them to perk their ears up and say, “Oh, tell me more about that,” or “That sounds like something I want to know more about,” right? And that's really what you're trying to find out.
Jordan SalmonAnd, you know, I've learned from networking, it's like developing a relationship, right? Someone's not going to marry you on the first date, and so you can't expect them to join your practice the first time they hear about you.
(44:06):
Jordan SalmonYou've got to work at it, you've got to connect with them, you've got to reconnect with them and continue to pursue it and recognize when there's a potential for business opportunity and be a—and accept the fact that it doesn't always happen the first time you talk to someone that's just part of starting business.
Wayne LowryYeah. So, when you look at the landscape of healthcare, and you look at what trends you see in just overall healthcare, whether it's being more proactive and patient focused and you know some of those, maybe some of those buzzwords. But when we look at that in trends, how do you think DPC will play a role in that compared to the traditional, you go to the doctor when you're sick?
(44:51):
Jordan SalmonI think there is a huge growth opportunity for that wellness aspect. People do not feel good in the insurance-based system and they want to feel good. They want to feel well. They want to get healthier, they don't want to just have the sick care model like that we have and they're looking for alternatives and I think DPC provides. We are perfectly situated to provide that to them.
(45:23):
Wayne LowryDescribe sick care. How would you define sick here?
Jordan SalmonSick care is essentially recognizing that I'm going to go to the doctor at the last possible second.
Jordan SalmonAnd that's really what insurance-based care is, right. If you think about insurance, insurance is really just, that's like the catastrophes. It's like, hey, when things are going really bad.
(45:47):
Jordan SalmonThat's when insurance steps in, sometimes and so it's not hypothetically, they're supposed to, right? That's what you're paying them for.
Wayne LowryHypothetically.
Wayne LowryThey're supposed to.
Wayne LowryThat's what they're contracted to do, but yeah.
Jordan SalmonExactly. And whether they do it or not. Yeah. OK. So, so sick carries, essentially, that it's that insurance-based model of like, hey, if there's an accident in my health, right. You know, like the car accident. If there's a healthcare accident with my health, that's when I'll get medical care.
(46:18):
Jordan SalmonAnd that's really what sick care is, it's just waiting until there's an accident. Waiting until, oh, my goodness, now you have diabetes. Instead of saying, hey, you know what it looks like we're on the trajectory to develop diabetes. Let's develop a plan to avoid that. That's really the kind of medicine that direct primary care is trying to develop.
(46:39):
Wayne LowrySo maybe another way I think about this in direct primary care, it's helping steer people to the most affordable option for their healthcare. So the most affordable option when you are not a full-fledged diabetic with the most expensive drugs is to catch it early.
Jordan SalmonYeah. Wayne Lowry And we hear about that like people are relieved when they say “ohh we caught the cancer early and we're able to do something about it” but at the same time we have how many stories have we heard? How many people have been in our lives that “Oh no, I must have just left, slept on my left arm wrong.” And then their heart attack.
(47:20):
Wayne LowryAnd then there's all of these complications of life because they never were preemptively looking at ways to help themselves and they didn't have someone in their corner that was intentional with them and providing the time with them and looking at their overall holistic healthcare needs.
(47:43):
Jordan SalmonYeah, absolutely. I mean, my patients will come in to me earlier than they would have typically gone to the doctor before. And the reason for that is because I'm not charging them a copay, we're not doing co-insurance.
Jordan SalmonIt's they're already paying for the services. And so they're like, “hey, well, if we're paying for the services, if there's something I think I need to be seen for, let's chat about it” and so I'm able to see them sooner. Catch things sooner and it's easier to treat things when you take care of them sooner.
(48:12):
Wayne LowrySo what kind of advice would you give to someone that's looking at maybe they're in the traditional healthcare model and they're looking at becoming a DPC provider, what are some words of wisdom or words of advice you might give them?
(48:33):
Jordan SalmonYou'll never be ready, so just do it. I mean, I think there's just a lot of burnout in the insurance-based system, but then whenever you're trying to change or do something new, there's going to be a lot of challenges and struggles and fears and doubts and that's just part of being human.
(48:57):
Jordan SalmonAnd so you have to decide what you ultimately want down the road, right? It's just the same as a patient, right? When you got a patient coming in to see you, you're having to decide. Okay, do you want to actually live on this healthier trajectory? Potentially avoid heart attacks and avoid some of the potential things that we see down the road with your current trajectory that you're on?
(49:19):
Jordan SalmonAnd I think we're seeing the trajectory of the insurance-based system is not a trajectory that most physicians want to stay in and so you have to just decide if that's where you want to continue to chug along and stay and if you do then?
Jordan SalmonGood luck. Hope things go well for you, but I think I just see kind of a whole different type of medicine in DPC and I think a lot of people are hearing about it. It sounds great, but there's so many unknowns and it's challenging to do that.
(49:47):
Jordan SalmonBut I think it's so much more rewarding to do that, right? It's so much more rewarding to take that leap of faith and just say “We're going to try something different because we believe in a different kind of model that gives better care to people.” I mean, that's why I went into medicine, right?
Wayne LowryYeah.
Wayne LowrySo you know something I was gonna ask you is did you have someone that was really a mentor for you and direct primary care when you got in, was there someone that you were able to work closely with for a period of time?
(50:17):
Jordan SalmonThere have been a couple of physicians that I've talked to and just chatting with them about “how did you do this and how did you do that?”
Jordan SalmonAnd one of the things wasn't working and it's like, “hey, this isn't working” and he gave me some good advice to kind of revamp my marketing and do some different strategies and part of starting a business, you're just going to make a lot of mistakes.
(50:41):
Jordan SalmonAnd obviously, we all want to avoid making mistakes, right? That's the goal. But you also have to accept that part of the journey is going to require making mistakes in the process.
Jordan SalmonSo you just move forward with it and just say, you know what, my ultimate goal of having a better kind of career and better outcomes for my patients is a higher goal than the struggle and the challenges of making mistakes and losing money in some of these marketing strategies or you know all the things, the mistakes that you make as an early business owner, it's just part of that process.
(51:17):
Wayne LowrySo if you're talking to someone that's really considering making this jump, how would you encourage them related to managing a work life balance? How would that enter into the scene?
Jordan SalmonSo I've had better work life balance starting a business and it's been a major driver in why I'm doing direct primary care because I think in order to give the best care to my patients, I have to be in the best place myself.
(51:49):
Jordan SalmonAnd that means that I'm having a better balance with all of the demands that I have on my time and on my life. I'm a dad of five, right? And so I knew that I couldn't continue with the insurance-based model and continue to give the kind of care that I wanted to give my patients.
Jordan SalmonAnd so if you really want a better work life balance then I think you need to, as a primary care physician, DPC is going to be the future for us.
(52:16):
Wayne LowryAwesome. Well, we've got one last section I want to jump into before we wrap up this podcast. A little section I like to call “Keeping It Reels.”
Wayne LowryThe purpose of this section is a rapid fire. When asked some quick questions, give me a short answer. I cannot promise you'll go viral on social media, but I will do my best to put it out there. So I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions.
(52:43):
Wayne LowryJust throw out what you think might be a good answer and we'll go with it. So, are you ready? You ready for this? Keeping It Reels, alright, number one, what is the most surprising thing you've learned about running a DPC practice?
Jordan SalmonOkay.
Jordan SalmonStarting a business is hard. It's real hard. But it's worth it.
(53:09):
Wayne LowryAlright, number two, if you could have a superpower to help you with your practice, what would that superpower be?
Jordan SalmonI would divide myself into six different people and have them all be working on 6 different tasks at the same time.
Wayne LowrySo it's easier to multiply yourself than just hire people. Is that what you're telling me?
(53:33):
Jordan SalmonWell, when you hire someone, you have to train them on doing it the way that you want it done and getting it how you want it to be, so…
Wayne LowryGotcha. You are a US Air Force veteran. How has your military experience shaped your approach to healthcare?
Jordan SalmonOh, so I am much more adaptable I think. I'll tell you a quick story. I deployed. I had one hour. I was given one hour to deploy. They called me up. I had just worked a 24-hour shift and then I deployed and within an hour was gone again. So that was crazy. But that's just the adaptability that you learn in the Air Force.
(54:17):
Wayne LowryLast question, what one thing would you tell your younger self about healthcare?
Jordan SalmonOh. I would say that it's going to be a challenge. You're going to learn a lot and just keep going.
Wayne LowryJust keep going. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Jordan. Appreciate your time today. That's it for today's episode of the Best DPC podcast, a huge thank you to Dr. Jordan Salmon for joining us and sharing his incredible journey to learn more about his work, make sure you check out his website.
(54:58):
Wayne LowryAll of this will be in the show notes so you can click on the link yourself or if you want to type it in later, it's healthrisingdpc.com to visit his website, you can follow him on Instagram at Health Rising DPC.
Wayne LowryFor more DPC goodness, head over to bestdpc.com, where you're gonna find reviews and directories of DPC's all across America. Look for those that are featured, if they're featured, it means hey, they are wanting your business and they want to be in a primary care relationship with you. So please check out bestdpc.com. Follow us on social media.
(55:40):
Wayne LowryPlease, it costs you nothing to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Like, comment, share, click the notification bell, that's all. That's all I ask and l won’t ask for a single dime for many of you people they're watching, but please help share the message. Do you like audio podcasts only? Is that your preference? Fine.
(56:01):
Wayne LowryFollow us on any one of your favorite podcast channels until next time. Remember, your health matters, demand the best with direct primary care. Bye bye.
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