BeTempered Episode 33 - Facing the Lion: Mark Metzger's Story of Survival, Faith, and Strength

Ever wonder how a boy from a small dirt farm in Springfield, Ohio, could build a thriving construction empire? Join us as we share Mark Metzger's extraordinary journey from helping with early morning chores on a family dairy farm to founding a successful construction business. Mark's story is one of hard work and determination, shaped by the lessons learned from a large family. Through the ups and downs, including the trials of the 1987 recession, Mark's commitment to his employees, whom he considers family, shines through. Discover how his education at the University of Dayton and a relentless work ethic propelled him to overcome challenges in both personal and professional spheres.

Mark Metzger shares an extraordinary story of survival after a near-fatal encounter with a lion during a hunting trip in Ethiopia. His tale reflects resilience, faith, and the enduring power of community, as he illustrates the challenges of coping with a life-threatening experience and the impact it had on his life.

As Mark recounts his experiences, we’ll explore the balancing act of family life, long work hours, and the dream of transforming an old farmhouse into a cozy home. With his children grown and leading their own lives, Mark found a new passion—hunting—which opened a new chapter of adventure and bonding for his family. From local small-game hunts to thrilling ventures in Texas and Argentina, these experiences illustrate how shared interests can strengthen family ties. Tune in to hear how Mark Metzger’s life journey embodies resilience and the enduring power of family values.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, Dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Thanks, Allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
it's your home, you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatron's come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom showerdoors and many other products

(00:20):
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years,
Kitchen class the clear choice.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the Be Tempered podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
This is Be.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Tempered.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, episode number 33.
33.
Yeah, beautiful day outside,beautiful day, beautiful day
inside.
Yes, outside's a little cold,yeah, a little cold outside
today, but we're in a newlocation and we are excited
today to hear the story of MrMark Metzger.

(01:13):
So, mark, welcome to the BeTempered Podcast, thank you, and
thank you for having us in yourbeautiful home.
You're welcome, it's amazing.
It is amazing.
This is a um.
I'm excited for you to shareyour story about, uh, everything
that that we see here, and yourstory in business and your
story in faith and your familyand all that you've been through
.
You've you've done some amazingthings in life, although I know

(01:35):
you think that that you haven'tbut.
I assure you once people hearthis, they're they're going to
recognize you do so.
Um, don't know you and I reallydon't know your story.
Growing up kind of talk aboutgrowing up as a child and then
getting into the school years.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Okay, I was raised in Springfield, ohio, outside of
Springfield, on a small dirtfarm.
My dad, I think, had 35 acresand we raised everything we
could raise.
He worked at Wright Pat and sowe started Dairy Herd.
When I was 12 or 13, I wasshipped off to a farmer up north
because he had got his handscaught in a combine and his son

(02:14):
got hurt, pulling him out, sothey didn't have any help.
So I went up there and I workedabout six months when I was 12
years old, away from home.
Wow, and that kind of set, mywork style, got me going.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:26):
Because once I knew that it was possible, I didn't
have a choice.
But when I figured out it wasdone, I knew it was possible,
and so that's kind of the way mywork life started.
I've been on a farm all but acouple years when college.
I've been on a farm somehow oranother.
So I really like the farm life.
It's set me up to be successful, I think you know.

(02:47):
You know how it is.
You got to work every day,whether you want to or not, and
it comes and goes.
So anyway, I have sevenbrothers and sisters.
I'm the fifth in line.
I've have four other brothersand three sisters, three other
brothers, forces, I don't know.
I got eight of them anyway.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
There's eight total.
There's eight total.

Speaker 4 (03:08):
Yeah, and being a middle one, we milked 60 head of
cows until I was 15 or 16.
And then I was starting to getin high school and my other
brothers older brothers were allleaving, so dad switched over
from a dairy herd to a Herefordherd and so I knew how to work,

(03:32):
ended up going to NorthwesternHigh School.
From there I went to theUniversity of Dayton, graduated
in 1971 with an engineeringdegree in civil engineering I
went to work, for while I was inschool I worked for a local
surveying company, spent fiveyears working for them or six
years working for them, got mylicense and then the opportunity

(03:54):
to come along to start my ownbusiness, and started that
business in 1975.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Okay Construction, business Construction business
yeah.
So I want to back up a littlebit because I'm always, you know
, being a farm kid and growingup on the farm.
You know we had beef cattlegrowing up, we had pigs, but
never dairy, and so whenever Irun into someone who was raised

(04:25):
on a dairy farm, it's always Idon't know that people
understand, who haven't beenraised on a farm, what kind of
work it takes to milk cows twicea day every day, no matter what
.
So having a big family thatobviously helps right.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Because I'm sure you were all involved.
Well, everybody had to work.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, but talk about you know, were there vacations?
Growing up, like a lot of thekids have these days?
No, I mean, you were workingall the time.
Yeah, back up, like a lot ofthe kids have these days no, I
mean, you were working all thetime yeah, back up just a little
bit more.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
Like I say, my dad was a full-time employee of rec
patterson and so my mom was thedairy um the dairy header that
she ran the place and, like Isaid, I've had three older
brothers and and they grew up inthe business I the first thing
I remember on the farm isgetting the cows in.
That's the first thing Iremember going out in the field

(05:09):
and bringing the cows up andstanding in the barn so they
wouldn't leave until they gotmilked.
That's the first thing Iremember is being a toddler
sometime around the way, and soit was.
I think we look forward togoing to the Cincinnati Red
Lanes game once a year, and sowe picked Blackberries to get
that money to go.
And when we got enough money toget Blackberries, somehow we

(05:31):
got somebody the neighbor,somebody to take care of the
herd that night and we went tothe Cincinnati Reds game.
Yeah, and that was my vacationfor until I went to college.
Yeah, that's right, I don'tever remember having a childhood
vacation.
So not that I was deprived ofanything, but I never had a
vacation.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Well, you didn't know any different.
And two, that's where you gotyour work ethic, because, like
you said, being on a farm,there's always work to be done,
but when you bring livestockinto the situation, then it's a
whole nother realm.
You get a day like today.
What is it?
10 degrees outside, still gotmilk cows, milk cows.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Keep water from freezing.
Do everything else you gotta do.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yeah, so that's an awesome childhood growing up,
even though I'm sure some peoplemight look at that and think
why the heck would anybody wannado that?

Speaker 4 (06:18):
Oh, I would do it again.
Yeah, I would not change it foranything.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Were you milking by hand or did you know?

Speaker 4 (06:23):
we, we had the surge milkers, the first kind of their
air milkers, but you still hadto wash every one of them down,
you had to clean them up and,you know, get them fed while
they're eating, while they'remilking, and just there was just
work everywhere.
Carry the milk.
We, we did carry the milk for alot of years to to the, to the
cooler, but then we then finallygot in lines where the milk
would go from the milker to thecooler.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
Yeah, that's awesome.
So then, so you go through, yougo to University of Dayton I'm
a Flyer alum, so engineeringdegree and what makes you do?
You?
Come right out of school anddecide you're going to start
your own business.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
No, I like to say I worked for a surveying company
two years while I was in school.
I needed the money to pay forschool, so I worked as a
surveyor for two years and thenthey hired me on and I worked
for them for three or four yearsand a lot of our business was
working for contractors and I'dalways been a con.
I mean, I always liked doingthings.
We built things at barn, webuilt a home and everything else

(07:17):
, so I was always handy with myhands and building things.
But um, so I just got around it.
And then somebody from one ofthe companies we worked for, tom
Williams, had offered that hewanted to go out on his own and
he needed an engineer.
And I fit the bill.
So we got together and made itwork.
So it started out as kind oflike a partnership.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, but talk about the struggles early on.
I mean anybody that starts abusiness or, like me, buying a
business.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
You don't know how to run a business no talk about
the challenges of gettingstarted well, first off, I could
say none of us know how to runthe business.
The paperwork is mind-boggling.
When you start, yeah, you knowit's easy to get once.
Once you've spent two or threeyears doing it, gets easy.
But getting that point it'sreally tough.
We didn't have any money.
I mean mean I was fresh out,like I say, out of college and

(08:07):
we had to all kick in some moneyand I had to go borrow money
and then we didn't get salariesfor six months because we didn't
have any work or didn't getpaid for any work.
We were working but we weren'tgetting paid for any work, and
so we were living on Diane'ssecretary salary for about a
year a year and a half, you knowand struggling with payments

(08:28):
and everything else, likeeverybody else does, and nowhere
to get the money.
Cause it's.
You know you've got, you'respending all your time doing
what you can do and it's just.
It was a real struggle,challenge, but I think every
minute of it was worth it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
The joy's in the journey right.

Speaker 4 (08:40):
The joy's in the journey.
Well, sometimes it's in thegetting there Right.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
And I assume at this time you're probably raising a
family.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
Raising a family, yeah, so kind of talk about that
, the whole combination of thebusiness and the family and all
that stuff.
So Diane and I got married in75.
We had our first child in 75.
We started business in 75.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
That's a great year.
That's a great year.
75 has been a great year.

Speaker 4 (09:04):
So, like you say, the challenge was getting married.
I had a little house up in Enonfrom when I got it from school
and we stayed there for three orfour years, but anyway it was a
challenge.
Just to get payments done I wasworking 12 and 14 hours a day
and then driving home and thenby the time I got home I really

(09:25):
didn't feel like talking andDiane had been in the house all
day and that's all she felt likedoing was talking.
So it was a challenge that wayto get you know, get us you know
, you know how it is.
You've been there, you know youspend too much time in the
field and all of a sudden yousomebody's got to talk to you.
I mean that was that and wemoved in here.
In 70 or 77 we moved in hereand that was another challenge

(09:50):
because this was an old, brokedown farmhouse.
It wasn't.
It wasn't like it is today.
Nobody will believe that, butit was an old, broke down
farmhouse.
Matter of fact, my mom and, uh,diane's mom, sat in the back
little back room here and theywere kind of crying that we took
this challenge on that.
You know, you guys, you guysdon't know what you're doing.
And I promised Diane, I saidgive me 10 years.
I mean it's not going to beperfect, but give me 10 years

(10:11):
and I'll have you a nice placeto live.
And she bought into thatprogram somehow.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
And you, see what we did.

Speaker 4 (10:21):
Diane's off mic listening.
I didn't even know she was overhere.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
The 10-year plan okay , yeah the 10-year plan.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
We'd fix up a room and you know, get a little money
together and fix up anotherroom, buy a piece of carpet, lay
the carpet and get things likethat.
So it was a good living.
It was challenging.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:41):
It was tough.
You had to depend on each other.
I mean, diane depend, we dependon each other so much now and
it's all due to that challenge,you know.
Yeah, I mean she knows what I'mthinking and I know what she's
going to do, so it's it's justkind of it's been a life like
that, but, um, we, I like achallenge.
I take a challenge on everytime.
I I take it on head on yeah youknow, I don't let him me, I

(11:03):
just take them on and get in.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
So which is the best way to do it?

Speaker 4 (11:06):
And.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
I think it goes back to being raised on a dairy farm.
It's a challenge.
You got to do it.

Speaker 4 (11:11):
I mean you can't make an excuse and say I don't feel
like doing it today.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Hey, let's, let's do it and let's let's get through
it and be better because of it.
So kind of talk about that.

Speaker 4 (11:22):
Okay, Well, it was.
It was.
It's a design buildconstruction business.
So we were designing buildingsand then having to go build them
.
So you make a promise to anowner and you got to keep that
promise.
You know I, I made promisesthat I had to really work hard
at keeping.
You know, promising peoplethey're going to get in in six
months and then you know you geta money, a rainy month and
don't get anything done.
And then next you got to put ittogether.

(11:43):
So a lot of late days, a lot oflate nights.
Uh, diane said I work.
You know I, just that's, all Idid was work.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
So maybe that was a challenge I should not have done
, but yeah but when you're, yeah, when you're, when you're you
know, trying to be successfuland to grow, that you gotta do,
you gotta do yeah, yeah, soyou're bringing on employees and
talk about those kind ofchallenges.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
Well, the good start was I had three partners to
start with and they took a lotof the heavy load off of me.
I was the engineer trying toget the work done, so they were
doing the paperwork and hiringpeople and things like that.
But still, even then it washard to find help and we kept
growing individually and thenwe'd throw them out and grab
another guy and wait to see howhe was going to work out and

(12:25):
keep him because he's a good oneand you know, uh, so that was
that was the other challenge.
Uh, getting work was achallenge.
Get work to make money on, youknow, yeah, you know we always
get work, but can you make moneyon it and things like that.
So, but the I guess, throughthree, four or five years, we're
finally what I would call asuccessful contractor.
We're doing work.
We don't.
We don't have to have.

(12:46):
You know we don't have to go tothe bank and ask for money to
keep business going.
You know that's always that'sthe new guys is challenged.
They got to go to the bank andask for money, but then they got
to pay it back.
You know you don't have to makemoney.
You got to pay back money thatyou've borrowed.
So that's, that's always been achallenge.
But then about, oh, six or sevenor eight years into the
business, we were really goodshape and then the recession of,

(13:08):
I think, 87 came along and we'dstored up a little bit of money
to keep business open.
But the 87 recession, there wasno work for anybody.
I mean, you couldn't go out andpay people to give you jobs,
there was just none, and it justall went away.
We finished up jobs, moneydried up and we took the
challenge of taking on a coupleof really tough jobs at a cheap

(13:31):
price to keep the crews all busy, I mean.
But this time I had adopted allmy crews, all my people, all
the good ones anyway, they'reall my brothers and we adopted
them all, and so I think it's myjob to take care of them and
keep them going, absolutely.
But we took on a firehouse jobin Kettering and we knew it was

(13:52):
cheap, but I had, like I said,we wanted to work, but it was a
lot cheaper than what we hadever thought.
And then two or three of thecontractors of that job also
went out of business while theywere trying to do the same thing
, and so we got into a real bigmoney pit.
Probably lost somewhere nearhalf a million bucks in that pit
and we were out of money.

(14:14):
And there was a time when Ithink I laid down and I says,
god, get me out of this somehowbecause I don't know the way,
god get me out of this somehowbecause I don't know the way.
And a little time later one ofthe banks says, yeah, we can
give you a little bit of moneyto stay alive.
And that comes.
A little bit of money came, alittle bit more money came
another job, came back to ourfeet, put everything back

(14:37):
together, paid everybody off,got the work done, built them a
real nice firehouse, and it waslike starting over from a pit
instead of starting over frombeginning yeah you know, because
of the money we lost.
But most of my good peoplestayed with us.
Some of them took a, took ayear off even, yeah, and then
say, when you get, when you getback on your feet, call me,

(14:59):
we'll be back.
And so most of them came backand we went back at it and we're
, from there on, we we knew toput a year's worth of money away
for just that kind of a time.
Sure, so you didn't have to goout and beat yourself up and
take it away.
That was one of the lessons Ilearned to put money back and
keep it back.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, one amazing thing in business to be where
you think, hey, we finally madeit, Made it yeah.
And then all of a sudden, thebottom drops out.
You know and you talk about,you know your relationships with
your employees.
I mean, I feel the same way andI try to tell any anytime I
hire a guy, uh, or, or a ladythat works for us.
You know, I don't, I don't wantit to be somewhere.

(15:38):
I'm not hiring you to do thisjob.
You know this, this projectthat we have, I want you to be
here forever.
And so you know that's not justgiving them a paycheck.
You know that's that's gettingto know them, getting to know
their story and their familiesand their needs and caring about
them, because we all havestories, we all have issues, um,
so it speaks volumes of youthat you're.

(15:59):
You know the people you hadworking for.
You said, hey, I'll take a yearoff and I'll come back.
You know that's an amazingthing and it has to feel good
for you to know that, hey, I gotthese guys that are that are
going to come back and and helpme when we need help.

Speaker 4 (16:14):
Like I said, I treated them like my brothers,
but they treated me like I wastheir brother too.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
I mean, it's kind of it kind of goes both ways you
ask for respect and you getrespect, or you show respect and
you get respect, yeah.
So you get through thatchallenging time and you're
better because of it and thingsare growing, kids are growing,
family's growing, life's crazybusy, crazy busy, yeah.
Where does it go from there?

Speaker 4 (16:36):
Well, it keeps going.
Like I say, I kept my businessgoing for 42 years.
42 years I was running.
As the process of the businesswent, my partners got old and
went out or retired and whatever.
I took on a new young man as aworker and then as a partner and
he was my partner for 30 yearsand it was always the plan that

(17:00):
you know he was going to takethe business over and finish,
you know, finish what I startedand I was going to take the
business over and finish what Istarted and I was trying to
retire.
So I was taking three days offa week, two days off a week,
taking some time off.
He was trying to get intorunning the business and getting
it done right.
He went on a cruise and hepassed away that day.
Okay, so I'm going from reallygood help, things moving really

(17:24):
smooth and perfect to okay.
I've got to go back to work andbesides, losing a very dear
friend.
But then I had a challenge ofrestarting, do my thing over
again and that took about threeyears or four years and I
finally found a buyer for thebusiness and it's going well now
.
It's a very successful business, construction manager of Ohio

(17:48):
and we probably built, I don'tknow, 60 or 80 commercial plants
in Dayton and around Daytonarea, plus a lot of warehouses,
office buildings and everythingelse.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah so all those ups and downs of business,
I know you are a faithful manand what got you through those
challenging times.
I mean, you talk about layingin bed at night and saying you
know, dear God, help me.
You know what continued to getyou through every day, those

(18:18):
challenges that you faced.

Speaker 4 (18:20):
Actually my kids and my family, diane, I mean, I
always worried about them.
You know what.
Then it was my job to take careof them.
So diane probably is you know,she's a rock solid and she's got
me through everything I evergot through yeah but then you
know that, that being said, I Ido, I do have a real strong
faith in god.
Yeah, you know it's his plan,it's not my plan.

(18:43):
You know, I believe that, Ibelieve he's.
He's got a plan for me and I'mgonna just follow it.
Do it again.
Sometimes I step off the wrongroad, sometimes I got to get
back on it, but you know he'sgot that plan and I've got that
trust in him that he will takecare of me.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Yeah, you know and you're an amazing man somewhere
along the lines, obviously, withif anybody's watching the
YouTube video, you can see someunique animals around us and
we're in your home.
And this is nothing here,compared to what's in the other
room.
You got into hunting.
Talk about what got you intohunting and then where all that

(19:18):
led.
Can I back up a minute?
You back up?

Speaker 4 (19:21):
I had three daughters and they were raised here, very
successful young ladies.
It was my life for a long time,I mean from the time they were
born until they went throughcollege.
All the time I was working, Iwas working for them, I was
working to get them throughcollege, I was paying the bills,

(19:41):
getting all that done.
And the last one kind of wentaway and was about halfway
through her schooling and all ofa sudden I got two of them out
and all of a sudden there'smoney left over.
You know, I mean I'd beenpaying for three in college at
the same time at one point andso all of a sudden there's money
left over and so I mean I gotmoney and I got time.

(20:03):
The kids are now gone and I gotmoney and time.
So I guess I got into huntingthat way, kind of like an
afterthought of sport, whatever.
I mean I hunted.
Every farm I've ever been onI've hunted, but it's always
been small game and we never haddeer here.
Until I know, 20 years ago wenever had a deer on the farm.
So it was always small gamerabbits, pheasants, quail,

(20:25):
squirrel, yeah, yeah.
But then I got into hunting.
I had some friends that werekind of hunters that I met up
with and you know, over theyears you start talking about
what you like to do.
I like to hunt, but these guyswere bigger hunters than I were.
So I think my first hunt was in97.
I went to texas on a game ranchhunt and then we went to after

(20:49):
that hunt we went to argentinaat a real international hunt the
first international hunt nowgoing from texas to argentina.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
That's a pretty big, that's a pretty big jump.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
That's a pretty big jump.

Speaker 2 (20:58):
So what makes you make that jump?

Speaker 4 (21:03):
I don't know.
You know it's one of those thatyou know.
Actually, I went to aconvention with my buddies.
We're all going in there.
Like I say, two of them arereal hunters and the other one
is just tag along like I was.
And you know, we've been toTexas hunting, we've been to
hunting a couple of places andmaybe in dove hunting a couple

(21:24):
of places, but we're out therelooking for the hunts that are
on the market, and the Argentinahunt just grabbed me.
I don't know it, just it justseemed like I've always wanted
to go to Argentina.
I always read about Argentina,I always did all that, not the
hunting part of it, but just thecountry itself.
And so I just we took a chance,country itself, and so I just
we took a chance.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Yeah, yeah, and so Diane and I went and we spent.
I don't know, 15 or 18 daysthere, yeah, and so it's one
thing for for you as a man to gohunt, but then Diane wants to
go with you yes so you make it afamily affair to go on these
hunts?
Yes, yeah, most, most all ofthem.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
Diane.
Diane has been on 90 of thehunts with me.
She's hunted a couple of times,but she's mostly just a partner
to go with.
She enjoys the outdoors, sheenjoys the wildlife.
She just really doesn't likeshooting much, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Who's the better shot ?

Speaker 4 (22:13):
She is.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
All women are better shots.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
I mean, if you give me a guy and a girl and I'm
supposed to train them to shoot,the girl's always going to be a
better shot than the guybecause they don't have that
macho.
They've got to do somethingdifferent.
They just follow the rules andjust go at it.
But that answer.
But she only misses a few ofthe hunts.
And those are the ones that arereal cold she doesn't like the
cold and the ones that are realhot, like the bongo hunting.

(22:40):
It's real over desert.

Speaker 3 (22:42):
What was it in Argentina that you were hunting?

Speaker 4 (22:45):
We had a group of things we were hunting.
They're famous for their birds,their doves, so we hunted doves
for a few days and then we wenton to a big game hunt.
We hunted buffalo, their littledeer there's not one in here,
but the little rocket deers,they're just little bitty things
and then some other big game,this black buck behind me, so

(23:08):
just things like that.
You know it was a full bag hunt.
So we had, I think, probablybrought I don't know 10 animals
back home with us.
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
So you go on, you go to your hunt on Argentina and
talk about all the differentplaces that you've been since
that Argentina trip.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
There's a lot of them , so I'm going to miss them.
Sure, let's start with myfavorite place to go.
My favorite place to go huntingis in South Africa.
We've made friends there.
We'd love to just go visit themand then hunt while we're there
.
But I've been to several of thenorthern countries here in
Canada.
I've been to Ireland, england,scotland and then Africa.

(23:49):
I've been to 12 or 14 of theAfrican countries.
Okay, yeah, so that's veryunique.
Yeah, I actually went topassport control, I don't know
two or three years ago and theguy asked me how many times have
you been to Africa?
I was coming back from Africa,so it must have been three years
ago.
He says how many times have youbeen to Africa?
I says I don't know.
He says your passport says 36.
I says, okay, 36.

(24:11):
So you know, it's not that I'vebeen to a lot of countries, but
I've been to a lot of reallygood places.
Yeah, yeah.
And everybody I find a lot ofgood people and most everybody
that I've met around, they'vebeen hard workers, they've been
dedicated to their job, they'vebeen dedicated to their family,

(24:32):
and that's what I always lookfor.
Yeah, so that's my you know,and that's what you are.
That's my forte.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, and that's what you are, that's my forte, yeah,
so I want to get into the storythat a lot of people know, but
maybe not in the kind of detailthat I read last night of what
you wrote about.
So you know, you've got allthese mounts around here and
it's amazing to be in here, butyou said something when I walked

(24:58):
in earlier.
You um about going on thesehunts and why you went on these
hunts, especially in Africa.
Talk about the need over therefor what you were doing.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Okay, um, I, my first trip to Africa was it was it
was, I'm going to say it was amajor hunting trip that I didn't
really understand the Africancontinent, I didn't understand
the African people, but I wantedto go hunting there.
So I did, and when I found outhow much good we were doing
hunting in Africa, well, firstoff, just to explain it, we

(25:30):
would go to a ranch and theranch would have a village or
we'd go to the village, whatever, depending on where we are, but
the villagers basically gotpaid for us to be there.
Then they got to keep the meatand then they got other things
and other benefits and they gotmoney from government, from the
permits, and so we finallyrealized that it's a sustainable

(25:53):
use thing in Africa.
What really stays, what reallypays, stays.
So if they got animals thatpeople will buy or come hunt,
they'll protect them and guardthem and everything else.
So if they've got animals thatpeople will buy or come hunt,
they'll protect them and guardthem and everything else.
So it's a really conservationthing over there, and I didn't
understand all this when I firstwent, and so everything we hunt
over there, it gets fully used,the meat gets fully eaten, what

(26:16):
looks like animals.
We bring back here.
What we get, we get to hide inthe horns and that's about all
we get, and so everything elseis foam and paste, plastic and
glass.
But I didn't realize how poorthe African people really are
and that a dollar for them islike a lot of dollars for us,
really.

(26:36):
And so when you go do something, even though it's expensive,
and you know that half of thatmoney is going to go to those
people, it gets easy to do.
It gets easy for me to do andtherefore when I go over there,
we always shoot a couple extraanimals for the orphanage, we
always shoot a couple animalsfor the schools or whatever.
So we always do that and we payfor them and they eat the meat.

(27:00):
It's a win-win situation.
I get to hunt them and they getto keep them you know, that's
great.
And it's you know, some of thecountries that don't allow you
to hunt certain animals.
Those animals don't exist inthose countries, you know,
because the people eat them,right, you know, and so people
are that hungry they will catchand eat everything you can.

(27:21):
Yeah, yeah, and that's.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
I had no idea, yeah, just like you did going over
there.
You didn't know, yeah, and sothat's an amazing thing, I think
, for people.
You know where they see allthese mountain and everything
and they may have a certainthought in their mind, but to to
recognize what you just said,that hey, the meat goes to those
villages and to those people tofeed them because they may not
have a cow in the freezer or pigin the the freezer like we do.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
They're very lucky to have an onion or two in the
garden.
That's how poor they are.
There's nobody here in Americathat's anywhere near as poor as
they are, and you can go pickthe poorest people you can find
here.
There's no one as poor as theyare.
I mean, we went to somevillages where they had a little
garden and they were saving theonions for a special time.
They weren't going out andeating the onions, they were

(28:01):
going out and saving them for aspecial occasion.
So yeah, they're that poor andthey have no way of the
villagers.
The local villagers have no wayreally of making money without
going and working these gameranches and farms.
I mean that's where they gettheir money.
They don't, you know.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, that's amazing.
So Ethiopia right.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
They're in Ethiopia.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
So you're in Ethiopia , yeah, and you're going on a
specific hunt.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
Yeah, I'm looking for an antelope.
Okay, a lot like this antelopebehind us.
It's a specific antelope.
Lives up in a mountain it'scalled a mountain yellow and we
planned this hunt for a while.
I fly from here to Atlanta andthen Atlanta to Joburg and then
Joburg or not, to that one.

(28:48):
I went the other way around,sorry.
I went to England and then downto Ethiopia.
We get in Ethiopia anotherreally poor country, ethiopia.
We get in Ethiopia anotherreally poor country and we go to
the hotel where we're standingthe first night and I get
sitting down talking to theguides and everything else and
the game scout, which is ourgame wardens, or whatever he
comes in and he says we have arogue lion down at the sugar

(29:11):
cane plantation a couple, threehours from here, that you need
to go shoot, and you know it'skind of.
When somebody tells me I needto do something, I always ask
the question why do I need?

Speaker 3 (29:21):
to do this.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
And it came across that we needed to go shoot this
animal kind of before we couldeven hunt, because it's been
such a problem for them.
Because it's been such aproblem for them, the Africans
are absolutely terrified atlions and leopards and the cats.
They just they sneak.
The problem is that the catsneaks in and steals them and
that's why they tell the kidsstay close, do this.

(29:45):
And so from the time they'relittle, they're afraid of lions.
Okay.
So we says, okay, we'll, let usgo down and look and see what
it's like, let us go get ourhunt done, and then you know
we'll come back and take care ofit.
And he says, well, we'd likefor you to go down and try to
kill it first.
So the next day we head downand we're equipped to hunt

(30:06):
antelope, we're equipped to bemountain climbers.
Okay, this line is on asugarcane plantation.
There's people everywhere,people always.
It's a 24 hour operation.
They're burning sugarcane,they're trucking sugarcane,
they're doing everything on thisplantation, but the kids and
the cattle keep disappearing,and the sheep and the goats,
okay, and they know it's a lion,they know it's a rogue lion,

(30:30):
but we can't find it.
We look hard, we look and lookand can't find it, can't find
any tracks.
We can't find any tracksbecause the tracks have already
been stomped on, run over, dragup.
So I finally talked to the kidsand they can show us where
there's a kill.
Yeah, it's a lion kill.
Then they show us another spotwhere there's some leftover fur,
hair and you know hide.

(30:54):
We think it's a kill, but youcan't tell for sure.
So we start talking to peoplearound.
We spent a whole day justlooking and looking and looking
and can't find a sign of thisline, nothing.
And then one of the truckersfinally stopped and asked what
we're doing and we say we'relooking for this line.
He says you never see it in thedaytime, we only see it at
night.
You know, we drive the trucksand we see it on the roads.
So we decided to start huntingand we started hunting the night
, hunted the first night,driving, driving, driving,

(31:14):
driving, looking, looking,looking, looking, nothing,
nothing, nothing.
The second night we finally weredriving it's I don't know, get
a good start, but about 2.30 inthe morning we finally see the
lion running up a drainage ditch.
We luckily got a shot at it.
I rolled it over, thought itwas dead.

(31:37):
It did everything a lion'ssupposed to do.
It rolls over, screams, criesout, does everything it does,
but then it gets up and runs off.
So the change gets on.
He's hit well because we canfind a trail of blood without
much trouble.
We trace him through this fieldand that field and the next
field and the next field.
He still has plenty of life inhim.

(31:57):
One of the fields we pull in,and it's sugarcane, and
sugarcane on this plantation isin all different stages of
growth.
Some of the fields are justplowed dirt and some have the
little shoots of sugarcane thatare only just the start of it
and some of it's really denseand thick and heavy and when you
say dense and thick, I've seensugar cane fields down in the

(32:18):
dominican and costa rica, buttalk about how dense and how I
mean that stuff gets tall itgets tall, you know, and it's
dense.
It's a mature field, ready toharvest, is nothing but a green
mat woven together within itself.
The only way you can thinkabout getting through the sugar
cane is there's an area abouttwo foot off the ground that

(32:40):
gets no sunlight.
That's how thick it is.
It gets no sunlight so nothinggrows there.
So you can actually getunderneath there and you can
crawl in the fields if you wantto.
Anyway, after I shot this lion,we him, chased him, chased him
and we get into, uh, the middleof the night, when the lights
batteries are gone no lights,it's, you know.

(33:02):
So we can.
At one point, uh, cliff, welooked down the lane and there
was a lion looking at us, lookeddown one of the sugar cane
lanes and cliff got a shot off,a quick shot, shot him in the
foot.
We think, well, we know he shothim in the foot.
At that time we didn't knowwhere.
He screams and runs off.
We keep chasing and about 4o'clock in the morning we
decided we don't have any lightsand he's going into this really

(33:24):
thick patch of sugar cane, sowe'll just let him go lay down
and die.
He's been running all night.
He can't have much left.
He's bleeding, he's stillbleeding, so he can't have much
left.
So let him go in there and die.
So we went in and tried to geta nap until daylight Come out.
At daylight, crawled in thisthick patch of cane,

(33:59):
no-transcript, around and aroundand around and nobody sees
anything.
So we keep going and we come, Idon't know.
We come to a patch no biggerthan this room of open space.
Cliff's in front of me slidingalong and I'm behind him sliding
along, and all of a suddenCliff rolls out of the way and

(34:22):
this lion jumps right in my lap.
I don't hardly see him coming,I just barely see him here and I
fight him off.
But he grabs my leg and I don'tknow if you've ever seen a cat
kill a dog.
I mean a dog kill a cat.
They just take me, pick him upand they shake him.
They shake him.
Well, he's had me.
He's got me shaking and shakingand shaking.
He's trying to.
He's trying to get me.
I somehow get the composure toput my gun.

(34:43):
It's across my lap.
I just kind of slide it down myleg and push it in his mouth
and that's the only way I knowhow to get him off of me and I
get him to where Cliff can nowget his composure because he's
been rolling on the dirt.
He can get his composure, getshis rifle out, goes to shoot him
, the rifle jams I can tell youthat rifle story after a while.
But he goes to shoot him andthe rifle jams, he reloads it

(35:04):
and shoots him.
Then two or three minutes, rightat that point it's like I'm
poisoned and Cliff's the problem.
So the line drops me like I'm ahot potato and jumps Cliff and
I roll over here to the air.
I get another shot off at him.
I mean he's standing this wayat Cliff, I can still see it.
He's standing on Cliff tryingto get him and his body's just
there.
So I get a shot at him and twominutes later he's dead.

(35:25):
But that's kind of thebeginning of the story, not the
end.
He bit my arms, both of them,crushed my femur and put a big
gash in the back of my leg.
After we shot the line, cliffcomes over behind me and says

(35:48):
come on, let's back up and lethim die.
And I'm sitting this waylooking but my foot's doing
something like that to the left.
I says we just better sit here,and so we just sit there and we
were waiting and he dies in.
So, but anyway, my feet, myfemurs crushed, my there's no
connection between my hip and myfoot and he's bleeding because
the line got him.
He's bleeding.
So what we do is bandage, youknow, the best with.

(36:09):
We bandage each other the bestwe can with what we have, so
T-shirts and whatever else, andeverything else.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
All of it's clean.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
All of it's clean.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, in the middle of a sugar cane and I'm sure
it's not 50 degrees.
No, it's sweating.

Speaker 4 (36:24):
Yeah, it's hot, and you've just been mauled by a
lion, yeah, so anyway, thenatives are so afraid of this
lion we can't get him to comehelp us.
We can call him, we can, youknow, we got the guy's names and
call him and he says I ain'tcoming in there.
I mean, most of this is in adifferent language, so I'm not
sure what's going on.
But Cliff's yelling at him andthey just won't come.

(36:46):
And finally we convince himthat the lion is dead and that
we need help.
And so they finally come in.
Uh, at this time we've alreadybandaged ourselves up and ready
to try to get out of there.
Um, cliff is only, I'm gonna say, superficially hurt.
I don't mean that that way, buthe's got a big guy, a big bite
in his leg, a big arm, but hisbones are all still together and

(37:06):
everything else.
I'm kind of the the wimp of thefamily.
So there's, this cane is sothick that there's really no way
for me to get out without justsitting on my butt and pushing
my way out.
I mean, I can't stand up, can'tdo a hop, can't do anything.
I just got to kind of sit on mybutt and kind of drag myself
out, and I remember a couple oftimes where it got so thick you

(37:28):
couldn't do anything.
So the guys would break overthe sugar cane and I would crawl
, push my way through that so Icould keep on going.
Finally getting away, gotpushed out.
Uh, get on, get out to where theirrigation ditches are, and
they keep them kind of I won'tsay mowed, but kind of cleaned
up so we can at least walk inthem.
And I do it, you're not walking.
Well, I do a two-man walk.
Okay, I do a two-man walk, oneon the side, one on the side and

(37:50):
me in the middle, uh, and wehop back to the uh, to the buggy
, the truck, and I remember thisthis is kind of distinctly
remember that I'm sitting downin front of the truck, there,
the crew's all out gettingthings gathered up that we had
scattered around, getting theline, getting this, getting
everything getting ready to go.
And I remember thinking thiswould be a good time for me just
to give it up and lay out andbe quiet.

(38:11):
But I don't, because I know, ifI do, my, my, my, my health is
not in my hands at that point.
Yeah, you know, and ethiopia isnoted for having the absolute
worst medical field in the world.
That's comforting yeah, that'skind of so, but anyway, I'm not
thinking about that at that time.

(38:32):
We go to get in the truck, getall loaded up, we go to the
infirmary.
You know, sugar Can Plains gota good infirmary.
Well, it's an infirmary fortrucks and tractors.
It's not an infirmary forpeople.
They do have a few Band-Aidsand a few old rags, so we get
bundled up and do all that, andthe one thing they do, though,

(38:54):
they get us an ambulance to thenearest hospital, which is two
and a half hours away.
Okay, that's their only goodhospital.
So, get on this flatbed.
That's all it is is a flatbed,both of us on the back end of it
.
They're driving down thesereally nice, comfortable roads.
Dirt roads, rocks bumps, ruts,ditches, gravelss, you know

(39:18):
everything else bouncing around.
But we finally get to thehospital.
Um, they get us in there andreally nice young doctor.
He looks us over.
He says, uh, you guys are inbad shape.
And I said, yeah, I think weare.
What kind of pain are you?
in.
I'm.
I'm actually Actually I'm in apain that I can handle, because

(39:38):
what's really saved my life backin the part between getting out
of the sugar cane and gettingto the infirmary was that my leg
swelled up like a balloon andit stents off all of the
bleeding.
I mean it's dripping but it'snot bleeding, but it's as big as
my body.
Or off all of the bleeding.
I mean it's dripping but it'snot bleeding, but it's, it's as
big as a big as my body orbigger Okay.
Okay, because of the trauma andthat kind of what kept me from

(40:00):
bleeding out and everything else, it just stopped bleeding.
And anyway, we get to thisinfirmary and there's nothing
there.
So they get us on a flatbedtruck, we drive to the hospital,
they admit us, us, the doctor,I, somehow, on the bouncy road,
I realized I had this evacuationinsurance.
I paid for this evacuationinsurance that's supposed to

(40:21):
help me in these situations.
So I tell the doctor that whenwe get in he's looking over,
trying to, trying to trying tochange advantages, which isn't
really doing any good, but he'strying to do something.
And I, I, he says, I said him,you know, just call this number
and see what they say, and Ifinally convinced him to call
and I'm half dreary now becausethe fever has now already taken

(40:43):
over, and so he's talking and Ican almost hear him say I think
he's got a broken leg.
Well, I mean, it's kind ofobvious.
My first point, you know, andthe guy I could, hear the guy on
the other line says what do youmean?
You think he's got a broken leg?
He says well, we don't have anx-ray machine.
And they said okay.
They immediately says we'recoming to get him, and so they

(41:05):
scrambled a jet, but about?
They scrambled a jet fromFrance, I think Paris.
By the time they got there it'sanother four hours or five
hours.
Then he put us on the plane ajet fly us to South Africa,
which is another six hours.
So it's actually I'm getting toSouth Africa, the hospital
there, and it's 36 hours.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Since the Inmala.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
So it's 36 hours later and the fever's.
You know I'm 100% with catfever and all kinds of fevers,
but they took very good care ofme at the hospital.
The hospital had done the firstheart transplant in the world.
So it's a good hospital.
There's nothing wrong with it.
The only thing is they don'tspeak any English.
But other than that everythingelse is good.
So they take me into theater,which is their emergency room.

(41:51):
They clean me into into theater, which is their emergency room.
They clean me out and see whatthey can do.
Swelling's too big to do anyrepair work or anything like
that, and the actually thedamage is too big to do the
repair work anyway for them atthis stage.
So they they install an extrafixator which is just a eiffel
tower on your leg.
Bolt me here together, bolt medown there together.
Everything's fine.
You know legs.
Good now, you won't, you're notgoing to squish it, you're not

(42:13):
going to bruise an artery orsomething like that.
So okay then with the infection, I laid in the hospital there
nine days with the draincleaning it out, antibiotics,
another drain cleaning it out,antibiotics.
It took nine days to get itdown.
In the meantime, diane uh, I had, I had stolen a phone, somehow

(42:39):
gotten a phone and, uh, I calledhome and, you know, called
diane.
I was going to tell her mysituation and of course, the
only day she's not here is theday that I call.
So I leave a message in myfeverish state that Cliff and I
have been mauled by a lion,we're in South Africa, and I
don't say anything else becausethey don't know much else.
Okay, so, anyway, so she gets,she gets, she comes in and gets

(43:06):
that call and you know, you knowhow that works.
But she immediately gets on thephone, starts looking for us.
She calls our friends in SouthAfrica.
They do a very wonderful job oftrying to find me, which is a
difficult task, and it's ahopeful day and a half of her
worrying about us.
Yeah, I'm just seeing where weare.
Even after Nadine found us, itwas almost impossible.

(43:29):
They wouldn't give anyinformation to Nadine because
she wasn't family.
And then Diane's calling themand she's trying to get in and
they don't talk English andthere's no phone in the room.
There's no phone for me to getto, and so it's a lack of
communication between the nursesand me and her, and that went
on for about a day and a half.
So she's sitting here a day anda half.

(43:49):
And she asked the nurse can youjust tell me his injuries?
And the nurse says one leg, onearm.
And that's the injuries one legand one arm.
Now she knows I've beenattacked by a lion.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Do I have one leg or?

Speaker 4 (44:05):
do I have one arm or what is going on and I, you know
, it's kind of, when you sitback and look at it, it's kind
of comical the way it all wentdown, but it was not a bit funny
at the time.
No, yes, so, uh, anyway.
So then she called the next dayand finally got the head nurse
and they finally, after shebegged, pestered him so many
times, they finally got a phonein the room somehow.
They brought in a cell phone ornight and then I finally got to
talk to her.
But in the meantime my friendsfrom south africa had come up

(44:29):
and had taken pictures and sentthem home and I was all covered
up with a sheet and smiling andbeing a nice guy with a picture,
and she texted Johan back, takeoff the sheet.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
She wanted to see how bad it was.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
And so she was here like I don't know, maybe a week,
with an airline ticket to go.
Whenever I said go and I toldher, you know, we decided it was
better for her to stay herebecause that's the way she could
get me home From there.
She couldn't get me home.
So anyway, as it worked out,nine days later I get on, I get
my fever breaks enough that theythink I can travel the 18 hours

(45:07):
it takes to get here.
Okay, and so with the jet theywould have flown me, they would
have med-jetted me from here tothere and to there, to there and
there, but the fuel and thecapacity of the jet was small,
they would have had to make sixstops on the way and it would
have taken a day and a half Idon't know two days to get here.
So they put me on a, theybooked me on a first class

(45:28):
ticket from on.
South African Air flew me fromjoe berg to dallas date
washington dc.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Now I'll stop you non-stop.
Yeah, I want, I want to stopyou, though.
What was it like getting on theplane?

Speaker 4 (45:41):
well, um, first off.
Uh, getting on the plane was achallenge at best.
We had the wrong equipment toget on the plane we had.
We had a fixed hard cot, rollerwheels and everything else, and
they couldn't even get me onthe plane.
They tried to get me throughthe first-class door and it
wouldn't go.
Then they tried to get methrough the baggage claim it

(46:04):
wouldn't go.
They finally run me throughwhere they pushed the food
through, because it's connectedto the body of the plane, where
they could put me down in thebottom where the luggage goes.
But then they had no way ofgetting me up.
So they run me in there and thecot they had could not make
turns around the aisles.
Well, you know, we have a hardtime walking around the aisles,

(46:25):
so it's not obvious.
So they decided that they couldput me on one of these
stretchers the best way to sayit.
They couldn't figure out how toget me off the cot and onto the
stretcher without all that, andthey didn't want to.
No pressure on my leg, ofcourse, and so I'm hopping
around doing everything.
They put me up on the seat ofone of the seats, put me up on

(46:46):
the armrest and I sat there andbalanced myself until they take
the wheel cart out and bring thebody cart in, and so I'm
sitting there balancing, andthen they do such a nice job of
getting me over there.
They don't know how to handleme, but one of the stewards
that's there to help grabs myexterior fixator and uses that
as a handle to put me on.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
Well, that worked, but it didn't feel so well, and
that's what's holding your legtogether.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
That's what's holding my leg together.
Yeah, so that's what's holdingyour leg together.
That's what's holding my legtogether.
Yeah, so that's, but it was.
They did get me in a nice seat.
I was at a challenge, though,with the exterior fixator and my
hips.
If I'd have been a half inchbigger, I would not have been
able to get on that seat.
Half inch, yeah, just half inch.
I'm stuck on both sides, youknow, I just there's.
I mean, I can't turn over, Ican't do anything.

(47:32):
I'm stuck on both sides.
So if it had been, the seat'sbeen a half inch or an inch
narrower, I don't know whatthey'd have done with me.
They'd have done something elsebecause I wouldn't have been
able to get in the seat, and yougot to ride how many?
hours 18.
Shoot, what's your pain like?

Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, manageable, it's all perspective, right, it
is all perspective.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Pain is a thing that you can learn to live with, or
learn to not be able to livewith.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, so you make it back to the States.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
I make it back to the States.
We land in Washington DallasAirport.
A medjet picks me up there andflies me to Dayton.
Now when I get on that medjet,the nurses have all the medicine
I need.
So at that point they calm medown.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Life gets a little better.

Speaker 4 (48:18):
Life gets like I don't care.
And then they bring me intoMiami Valley here in Dayton and
Diane was an EMT.
She is an EMT, she was workingat that point so she knew the
back way to get in and they knewthat she was coming.
So she intercepts them beforethey get me into the emergency
room and I told the nurses Isays when you see her you better

(48:39):
just get out of the way becauseshe's going to run right over
you so anyway.
So we reunite and things are allgood.
So they get me in a room.
I think I spent 15 days inMiami Valley.
First five or six, I go in andthey cut me, they opened me up
and we'll flush it out, installantibiotic beads, antibiotics,

(49:06):
sew it back up.
And the doctor told Diane thatI can't explain it.
It's just like it's.
It's like glue or goo, it'sjust, it's just all pussy and
everything else, and it's justso that went on and everything
else, and it's just so that wenton.
I think that was three timesthey did.
They did a flush and and resealand then on the fourth time
they, uh, they decided theycould start reconstruction, but
it's more important to get me inthe situation where I could be

(49:26):
comfortable and move aroundeverything else.
So, yeah, uh, 15 days, I don'tknow how many operations six or
seven and finally I could getout of the hospital in a
wheelchair, then on the crutches.
Then we had a hospital bed putin this room so the dying could
take care of me.
I was on an antibiotic drip,antibiotic tablets and

(49:48):
antibiotic cream for a long timewhen they found out they were
treating me for the wrong thing.
Oh no, well, at that time I wasone of the only people that had
been infected by a bacteriathat was found only in goats,
and I had it.
Really, yeah, we figured thelion had eaten an infected goat,

(50:10):
given me the bacteria and theywere treating me for other
things.
And so then we all one day theyjust said, yep, stop everything
, we're gonna start over withsomething else.
So they come in with a newbatch of antibiotics, but anyway
, it's a long time.
It was about 18 months Total.
Well, yeah, total when I wasback to where I could just maybe

(50:31):
walk.
I still had time after that toget strength and get bending.
One thing that did happen, andit probably would happen to
anybody they had taken my leglike this and left it like that
for too long and it stayed likethat.
It wouldn't bend.
So after the reconstruction andhealing of the bone, which

(50:51):
didn't heal very well because ofall the antibiotics, which we
found out later that theantibiotics were keeping the
bone from healing.
So after that then I wasstiff-legged, so I had to work
all that out.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Physical therapy and all that Physical therapy and
farm therapy.
So you glossed over something alittle bit.
When the mauling happened youtalked about, cliff had a chance
to take the shot right and hisgun jammed.
Yeah.
So talk about that, becausethat's kind of significant right
.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
It is kind of significant.
It goes back to the beginningof the story.
We were out there huntingantelope.
So Cliff wouldn't even becarrying a gun at that time.
It's not a non-dangerous animal, I'm the guy that's got the gun
.
So, okay, it's not anon-dangerous animal, I'm the
guy that's got the gun.
So when we were told we had tokill this lion, cliff said do
you have a gun that I can use,because we're not going in there

(51:43):
with one gun.
That's not going to happen.
So there was a colonel there ofsome sort Actually I don't know
his title, but he was calledColonel.
He had an old it must have beena .458, be my guess, okay, an
old Army gun.
And you know it worked when heshot it, but when it was needed
it jammed.
Now, cliff being a gunman, hequickly unjammed it and used it.

(52:09):
But I guess what I'm trying tosay is we were in the spot.
We were in because we reallydidn't have the right equipment.
You know we didn't start right.
So that's one of the thingsthat somebody says what would
you change?
I'd say if I knew I was goingto hunt lions, I'd go hunt lions
, but you were there to huntantelope.
Yeah, we were thinking about a300-yard shot with a nice small
rifle that shoots flat andeverything else.
Now we're face-to-face with alion.

(52:29):
Yeah, it wants to eat you.
It's a different show.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
So at the end of the day, I mean, we know, because
we're sitting here and you'resitting here and the lion's over
there, yeah, so you won.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
You won at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
And you helped that village right Right, that's kind
of the bigger story, I guess.

Speaker 4 (52:50):
The bigger story is that we controlled a man-eating
lion.
We disposed of it properly.
I mean, I know some people thatmight shoot it and just let it
go because leave it in there,It'll stay in there until it
comes out.
But that's not the way, youknow, life goes in my mind.
You know you dispatch thingsproperly and do everything right
.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:05):
Earlier you talked about what was the survival rate
?

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Oh it's at the time, the statistics was that if you'd
been mauled by a lion, therewas only a 13% survival rate.
So I'm one of the lucky ones.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I guess I'm one of the ones that gets to put a one
in there, or a three, I'm notsure, right, what's more amazing
is that you know, not onlybeing mauled, but just surviving
the trek from those sugar canefields to the different
hospitals.
And what if you wouldn't havehad insurance, you know, I mean,
who knows where the story wouldbe what if you wouldn't have
had insurance.

Speaker 4 (53:36):
I mean, who knows where the story would be?
You bring it up, but when I gotinto Joburg they said we need
$10,000 down payment.
I says no, you take creditcards.
And the girl says well, if yougot one, that's good.
And I gave her my AmericanExpress.
She says well, that'll work.

Speaker 2 (53:58):
He said I guess that's what you were going to
throw me on the street.
I mean, all these things lineup.
You know, it's amazing.
It's amazing.
God was definitely watchingover you, yeah, every day of the
way.

Speaker 4 (54:08):
I was about a quarter inch away from my feet.
I forget the name of the bloodvessel in the leg, but if it had
been punctured it's asix-minute bleed.
And it was just that far away.
Blood vessel in the leg, but ifit had been punctured it's a
six-minute bleed, you know.
And it was just that far awayfrom the damage.
My main nerve in my leg wasjust inches away from being
damaged.
So all of those things wereGod's blessing.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
All by a lion Fever that only goats have, that the
doctors couldn't figure out.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
And even when you get back into the States and they
talk about you know how.
You know all the pus andeverything in your leg, I mean
just yeah, it's amazing.
I mean, you're a miracle.

Speaker 4 (54:42):
And then with with the bone not healing over a
period of time, it was like inthat must happen.
In February, September, October, I had to go in and get a bone
graft because the bones weren'ttalking to each other.
So that was another operationwhere they went in and actually
put a bowtie from the top of myknee to the to the femur that
was crushed and so they wouldstart talking together and come

(55:03):
back together.
That's part of the reason itwas an 18-month recovery,
because they bones wouldn't talkand wouldn't feel each other
and then on top all that you got.

Speaker 2 (55:11):
You know you got Diane back here worrying sick.
Your kids, I'm sure, are allworried sick.
You know um, you got a businessstill yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (55:22):
So I mean how's?

Speaker 3 (55:22):
that no, I mean, there's all these other things
and you're fighting for yourlife.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Good thing, I had a good partner.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good partner.
Good, good employees and yeah,um, because if it was an 18
month total, I mean that's tough.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
I did get back into the office.
Oh, maybe again I'm guessing,maybe four months, three months
after I could put weight on myfoot, a little weight anyway,
and I had to keep my foot up.
So I'd get in my drafting tableand then I had a stool that I
could put my foot up on likethis, and I could still work.
So I was back.
That was kind of a saving gracefor me.

(55:58):
Um, diane and I argued about itand she was right, of course,
but it was it was it was one ofthose things that it, it, you
know.
For a while there I was reallyworried that I wasn't going to
be able to save my leg and a lotof things like that and a lot
that goal goes through your headand it gets you up and gets you
down and you know.
And then, uh, diane's one timeI was fussing, I guess and she

(56:19):
says you know, it's your leg, itain't your head in your hands.
Yeah, you know, you got thattalent, just don't worry about
it.
So, I don't know, a month afterthat she had me.
We, I was sitting at my draftingdesk at work with my foot
propped up on a stool doing myjob and uh, she would take me in
, get me up the steps and get medown the steps and then she'd
take the kids, the grandkids,and go play for someplace for an

(56:41):
hour, two hours or three hoursand whatever I felt or whatever
she thought I could do, yeah,and then she'd come pick me up.
So that was a great uh, thatwas a great thing that she did
for me.
That uh got me back into theswing of real things.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, amazing well then, I realized you.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Then I realized you know I've got to recover, but if
I don't, I've still got this.
I mean, I'm still not.
It's not like I, you know, it'snot like the amputee we talked
about earlier, where you don'thave any hands at all.
Right, it's just.
You know, I was fortunate.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Yeah, amazing, amazing story.
So, as we go on this plane, Iappreciate you sharing all that
and all your wisdom.
Do you have any closingthoughts?
Is there a Bible verse, a quotethat you lean?
On when you're in the hospitaljust trying to figure out what
was going on and fightingthrough that pain that would

(57:34):
resonate in your mind or thatyou live by, that you could
share with our listeners.

Speaker 4 (57:39):
I don't know if I have a quote or a thought, but I
did depend on God a lot and Idepend on God a lot.
I think one of the things thatI think about a lot is that
everything we have here wasgiven to us.
It was given to us and if hewants to take it, he can take it
whenever he wants to, and Ileaned on that as saying that he

(58:00):
allowed me to keep the thingsthat I needed so I guess maybe
if I had a motto.
I said God, let me keep what hethought I needed.
And since then he's blessed memore than that, because I've
probably gotten closer to himbecause of it, I've probably
grown in to him.
Because of it, I've probablygrown in my faith and I've been
able to give it back to otherpeople, and I think that's one

(58:22):
of the things as a result of thewhole thing going from a real
tragedy to a real blessing.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
Yeah yeah, that's amazing and it's just an amazing
story of resilience and I thinkanybody out there, all these
stories that we try to share onthis podcast, you know people
are going through a fire or havebeen through all these
different things, you know.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
Jason COVID getting electrocuted losing his arms.

Speaker 2 (58:46):
Mark Metzger, getting mauled by a lion, should have
died right.
But look at you and you'rethankful for all that stuff, and
you're grateful and yourecognize that life is good and
that you know we're notguaranteed tomorrow.
And so, mark, I can't thank youenough.
I appreciate the hospitality,letting us come in your home and
move some things around so wecan get this set up and maybe

(59:09):
we'll be able to get a pictureof the lion that we can put into
the podcast where people cansee it.
That's a pretty cool thing.
So we appreciate your time.
Ben, you got anything to add?

Speaker 3 (59:19):
No, but it's mind-blowing you know I did okay
.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Yeah, you did amazing , you did amazing.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
When Dan originally texted he said you know it's
going to be an experience cominghere and I mean it's amazing
and the story I mean I justcan't imagine.
I imagine you cling to thefaith, obviously.
You know you always hear.
I remember growing up my momalways saying, like about
ethiopia, about how poor it was,I can't imagine needing medical
, you know help and everythingthere.
And then the day that you'resitting there and I mean you had

(59:48):
to have doubt okay, and the waythat you said you're fortunate,
like you're just extremelyblessed, you know, and I imagine
that grew your faith Huge.
It does.

Speaker 4 (59:57):
It's huge.
Yeah, have you been back?
I have not been back toEthiopia, but I've been back.
I've been hunting several timessince then.
I actually killed a lion, Idon't know, two years ago.
Okay, so I've been back in thesaddle.
Yeah, yeah, well, good.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
All right, well, appreciate your ears and we
appreciate Mark, and go out andbe tempered.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
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