What if true leadership meant taking full responsibility, even when the stakes are at their highest? On this episode, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr take a deep dive into the principles of Extreme Ownership, inspired by Jocko Willink’s teachings. Joined by Matty Ledgerwood, they explore the role of leadership in shaping culture, the balance between humility and assertiveness, and the critical importance of fostering trust and accountability. As they dissect decision-making in politics, they challenge the all-too-common tendency to shift blame rather than embrace responsibility.
We also share the incredible story of Coach Kemper, who turned a struggling high school football team into champions, reviving school spirit and showcasing the transformative power of leadership. Through experiences in youth sports coaching, we discuss how adversity can be harnessed as a tool for growth—building confidence, resilience, and life skills that extend far beyond the field.
Leadership often means living in a "glass house," under constant scrutiny. Dan and Ben break down how to stay positive, remain mission-focused, and practice servant leadership to create meaningful impact. Drawing inspiration from influential figures like Chad Wright of the Three of Seven Project, they highlight how personal growth fuels leadership success. Plus, with insights on maximizing social media engagement for greater visibility, this episode is packed with strategies to help leaders at any level elevate their influence and drive real change.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, Dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thanks, allie.
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(00:26):
Kitchen's best.
The clear choice.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
This is Be Tempered.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, episode number 42.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Confidently, you sure , yep.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Good.
Good.
We've got an interesting topictoday that is near and dear to
my heart and very important inour world today, which is a
leadership.
Leaders must own everything intheir world.
There's no one else to blame.
The leader sets the tone.
(01:22):
Whether a team succeeds orfails is all on the leader.
That is extreme ownership.
Good leaders don't make excuses.
Instead, they figure out a wayto get it done and win.
A leader must be humble but notpassive, aggressive but not
overbearing but not overbearing.
(01:42):
They must instill a culture ofaccountability, discipline and
trust, because without these, ateam, no matter how talented,
will fail.
And this is a passage fromJocko Willink in his book
Extreme Ownership how US NavySEALs lead and win.
(02:02):
And that right there is thefoundation of everything we're
talking about today.
Leadership isn't just aboutbeing in charge, it's about
taking full ownership of theculture you create.
And to help us break this down,back for round number three,
we've got Maddie Ledgerwood herewith me.
Maddie, again, welcome back tothe Be Tempered podcast.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
It is great to be with back with you guys.
Appreciate the invite.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, and if if you're not watching, maddie is
loaded up on the be temperedgear.
He looks good with the hat andshirt and, uh, you know, I love
seeing seeing that people walkin our buddy, matt roberts I see
him at the gym every morning.
Sometimes he'll walk in, he'llhave the be tempered shirt on
and it just makes me feel good.
That's right.
(02:47):
It's pretty awesome.
It should.
So, matty, hearing those wordsfrom Jocko, you said you read
the book I'm in.
I'm about three quarters of theway through that book, extreme
Ownership, which is fantasticbook to read.
What stands out to you mostabout leadership's role in
shaping culture, aboutleadership's role in shaping
(03:07):
culture.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
That's a big question .
I mean, if you start with hisfirst sentence there, where he
talks about you know, the leaderhas to own everything.
You know that's that concept ofresponsibility.
Like, you know, the leader iswilling to hold the line on
every piece of whatever it isthat comes across.
You know, the leader is willingto hold the line on every,
every piece of whatever it isthat that comes across.
Uh, you know the desk, and sohe he's, he's not scared of that
(03:31):
responsibility, um, and as heowns the responsibility for
everything that is going on,then that allows him to begin to
develop a way of doing things.
So much of that comes from theleader's personality, who he is,
(03:52):
his upbringing, his experiencesin life, and that's what makes
every leader a little bitdifferent, a little bit unique,
because they're going to colorit with who they are, with, with
their, with who they are, um,but, at the core, every leader
is creating a culture.
I think, honestly, the questionis whether or not they're
(04:12):
creating a good culture or not.
Um, you know this, this worldruns on leadership.
Ai is impressive, um, but AIdoesn't run countries, it
doesn't run businesses.
Uh, it, it.
It doesn't run families.
It doesn't run businesses.
It doesn't run families.
It doesn't run nonprofits.
It doesn't run churches.
At the end of the day, there'salways somebody in charge, and
(04:33):
you know whether that person isa good leader or a bad leader.
You know that remains to bedecided, but make no mistake
about it leadership runs theworld.
But make no mistake about it.
Leadership runs the world.
And so if you've got a guywho's willing to own his stuff
and is responsible and thencreates a culture around you
know who he is he can be anexceptional leader.
(04:56):
She can be an exceptionalleader.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
For sure, for sure, and I think we see that in
today's society, especially inpolitics, right, absolutely.
You know, the politicalenvironment is one where it's
more about placing blame andpointing the finger.
It's not about taking ownership.
And maybe that's because of howour elections work, with, you
know, changing every four yearsor two years, depending on
(05:20):
whatever it is.
But that's what drives me crazyabout politics is that people
don't take ownership for thosedecisions, even if they voted on
something, um, you know, 10years ago and and that whatever
that was voted on makes thechange doesn't happen for 10
years.
And then they're like, oh no,no, you know, I didn't my mind
changed, or this or that mantake ownership for it.
(05:41):
I uh be vulnerable and be likeyou know what?
Yeah, this is a decision I madeat this time, but you know,
I've seen things happen and thisis why my mind has changed.
You got to take ownership of it.
That annoys me to no end degreewhen people try to place blame
Absolutely.
So you're involved in business,you run your own business,
(06:01):
you've got a family.
You're involved in business,you run your own business,
you've got a family.
You're involved in your church,you're involved in the
community.
You do so many things.
How do leaders balance holdingpeople accountable while still
creating an environment of trustand respect?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
The hardest person to lead is yourself, and good
leaders always start there.
They start with theresponsibility they have to move
themselves forward, to improvetheir weaknesses, to uh, to to
put their strengths on display,I guess.
(06:43):
But they've learned to leadthemselves.
Exceptional leaders across theboard.
They've learned to leadthemselves.
When you learn to lead yourself,which is the hardest person
there is to lead, it is mucheasier than to.
So here's the thing we offer somuch grace for ourself and we
(07:06):
will give ourselves massiveleads and and uh, you know
justifications and everythingelse, cause, oh, they don't.
They don't understand what Ihad to deal with or what I was
went through, or they don'tunderstand my past, or they
don't understand.
This is why I am the way I amand and excuse, excuse, excuse,
just like you're talking aboutsomeone who's leading themselves
, has learned to shut all thatoff and just push forward.
(07:30):
But as they've learned to dothat, it actually does help them
.
Then, have grace with otherpeople, because the flip side of
us having grace with ourselvesis that we have no grace with
anyone else, and so everyoneelse gets a super short leash.
And you know, do it exactlythis way, or the way I said to
do it.
Or you know, and and and and,all of a sudden, all this grace
(07:51):
and justification we have forourself we no longer have with
anyone else.
Person who leads themselves well, they're able to then offer
grace to other people, andthat's what people need in order
to follow.
They need to feel like, hey,this guy has my best interest at
heart, this lady really caresabout me, this is someone I can
(08:14):
I feel confident or comfortablebehind following.
And so I think, if you have aleader who is willing to hold
themselves accountable, to leadthemselves well, that you do
start to juggle a lot of things,because you know, that does
(08:36):
become a person that people arekind of gravitate towards.
But if that person has thecharacter to lead themselves
well, that really is what allowsthem to be able to share that
leadership in a family unit andin a business unit and in a
sports league and whatever thedifferent avenues are.
(08:57):
And so balancing it is tough,but it starts with leading
yourself well.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
It does.
That's a, that's a hundredpercent.
I think back, you know, towhere I was as a leader in high
school, you know, in sports, incollege, in sports and in school
, and then at a young agerunning a business and trying to
figure things out and andfinally, really for me it hasn't
really clicked.
I mean, I feel like I did agood job in leadership at that
(09:26):
young age but I honestly feellike I've just gotten started
the past two or three years whenI recognized I've got to get
myself right, I've got to get mymind right, I've got to get my
body right so that I can be apositive influence on the people
that work for me, on mychildren, on my wife, on our
(09:46):
friends, to try to do what I sayis make this world a better
place.
You know I can't, I can't relyon, you know, our politicians
and our world leaders and theseother people.
It starts with us and that'sthat's the core to to being a
good leader, I feel like, isgetting yourself right, like you
said, so that other peoplewatch you and want to strive to
(10:13):
be like you and uh, and, andthat's a difficult thing.
And I thought back to um, myhigh school football days and,
um, I thought back to myfreshman year in high school.
We were, oh, in 10, we did notwin a single.
To my freshman year in highschool.
We were 0-10.
We did not win a single game.
My freshman year in high school, and the coach that we had was
not a bad coach, he was a goodguy but he worked a full-time
job.
He showed up right whenpractice started and we just
(10:38):
weren't good.
But my sophomore year we got anew coach who came in.
He was a teacher, he was aformer football player, college
football player, tried out forthe NFL.
He was a big man, he demanded abig presence and he was a
leader and he led by example.
And I look back on that becausewe went one and nine.
(11:01):
My sophomore year he startedcreating a culture of hey, if
you want to succeed you have towork.
You can't just show up andexpect it to happen.
One and nine sophomore year.
Two and eight junior year.
We're starting to develop thatculture.
That's only two wins.
We still we're not good, butyou could feel the change in the
(11:23):
momentum, not only from oursmall little football team with
40 kids on it, but in the school, the environment of the school.
Coming into our senior year, wewere rocking and rolling.
We felt really good about wherewe were at.
We had a great core of kids.
We had other kids in our classthat had never played football.
That came out because theywanted to be a part of that
(11:44):
culture and we went six and fourand that's.
You know, that's a winningrecord.
At the time that was our schoolrecord for the most wins in a
football season, but it wasawesome.
It was a great season.
I mean it was.
It was a very rewarding to seewhere we came from, you know,
with the prior three yearshaving three wins out of 30
(12:06):
games, to being able to go sixand four.
And it was all because of theleadership of coach Kemper, who
came in and changed the culture.
We followed his lead and so Ilearned so much, you know, as a
young 15, 16, 17, 18 year oldkid from him that I was able to
carry on into college, um, butthat was a.
(12:26):
That was a pivotal moment in mylife where I like, okay, this,
this is what a leader looks like, and so so that was a.
That was a big deal for me.
Have there been experienceslike that in your life, maybe
maybe at church, maybe at school, maybe with your family or
business, where where you can,can you?
You can remember specific timeswhere it was like okay, that's
what leadership looks like.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Yeah, I would say I'm similar to you in the sense
that I didn't really uh everview myself as much of a leader.
Um, you know, till till Ireally began this journey of a
lot of personal growth and andthen through that, I was like
you know that that's valuableand that that that carries, you
know, some help with it.
(13:09):
And so you know this wholetopic of leadership even though
I've been around it a lot in mylife, I wouldn't say it's
something that I've really umpersonal to me till the last
five or six years or so.
And so, yeah, as I sit now andlook back, I can say, you know,
there I had elements of thatgrowing up and you know, I, I, I
saw it displayed, uh, you know,here and there, um, I, I did
(13:34):
have a, uh, we went, I went to areally really really small
college and, uh, they had asmall football team.
It honestly was basically just aglorified high school football
team.
So I don't tell people I playedcollege football, because that
is not true, but I was on theteam and and you know, we did
have a coach that was was likethat and who did push us and you
(13:56):
know he did create a culture ofaccountability.
He created a culture of workand hard work and and I thought
about that a lot and I thinkthere is a common of
accountability.
He created a culture of workand hard work and and I've
thought about that a lot and Ithink there is a common thread
there, and I think this is whycoaches are so valuable, because
they both encourage you andthey challenge you.
They expect something from youthat you don't think you have to
(14:17):
.
You don't think you have thecapacity to do it.
Can we, can we actually get tosix wins?
And we've only ever won one ortwo wins a season.
Yeah, you know, I mean, he sawsomething in you guys that you
didn't even see in yourself, andhe encouraged you and he pushed
you.
Yeah, and leadership does both,and so, you know, I tend to, uh
(14:38):
, sit a lot more on theencouraging and loving side and
and I've had to work on thechallenge side, you know to to
to speak plainly and clearly andand expect things from people
more than they can expect fromthemselves.
Good leaders draw from peoplewhat they don't know is in there
, and that creates momentum, andthat's where leadership starts
(15:01):
to work, because you get peoplewho say they start to develop
some confidence I can do this.
I didn't know I could do this.
I have a skill that I neverrealized I had before, and all
of a sudden they start to buildsome confidence.
Well, then they buy in more,and then they buy in more.
It's like this compoundingeffect that you know, you.
(15:22):
You, you have someone who'swilling, at the beginning, to
push a rock all by himself, withall of his might, and, and
eventually he gets an entirearmy of people that are pushing
the rock as well.
Um, but someone has to start it.
Someone's got to be the personthat says, hey, we're going to
get moving in a direction, and,uh, so yeah, good leadership
(15:43):
will bring encouragement andchallenge.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, for sure.
We're kind of dealing with itright now on our little youth
basketball team that Ben and Icoach these, you know, these 10
and 11 year old kids, thatthey've had a really good season
.
We haven't had a lot ofcompetition, um, we're
undefeated, uh, which doesn'tmean anything to me, quite
honestly, because what I'mtrying to develop is these boys
(16:06):
when they're in middle schooland when they go into high
school, you know, and trying topush them in ways that they may
not be pushed at home, because alot of these boys are raised a
lot differently than how I raisemy kids, and not in a bad way.
I raise my kids and not in abad way um, more of a comfort.
(16:27):
Um, you know, we don't want anypain for for this little kid or
that little kid, and we had acouple of tests, uh games this
weekend where it did tested theboys and uh, and we had to have
a little come to Jesus talk athalftime and um um, you know,
there's some things I just can't.
I can't stand and uh, and theywere doing it and um, you know
they came out second half of thegame and and they changed, um,
(16:49):
and and for me you talk aboutrewarding is is when you, when
you see something someone'sdoing like a young, especially a
kid I mean really working withkids is is, uh, what I truly
enjoy doing the most and seeingthem and their element where
they're essentially giving up.
You know, things get tough,it's hard.
(17:11):
I'm going to start crying.
I'm going to look to the standsat mom and dad no, that don't,
that doesn't work with me and uh, and then to flip that switch
and say, look, boys, this is,this is why you're here.
You're not here to beat a team46 to nothing, like we did last
week.
You're here for somecompetition, to get better, to
push yourself, so that when youface better competition, you can
(17:32):
fight through that adversityand you may not win, because
guess what In life, you're goingto lose a lot more than you win
and you've got to figure outhow to deal with that.
So it's been a really fun, uh,really, this past weekend was
really fun for me to be able topush them because we hadn't had
that chance yet.
I mean, you've been a part ofthat right, and that's what I
was thinking.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
When you know, when you talk about good leaders and
everything, and and then theadversity.
Well, what happened?
Like two weeks ago at practice?
We had some games where wemissed some layups and stuff.
We're like, okay, we're gonnakeep track of them.
For every layup we miss, we'regonna do five right.
So we missed 20 oh man.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
So let's do the math and you can see.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
The kids faces are like no, we missed 19 or 19.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
That's right, that's right 95 push-ups to do, and so
the kids are like you there's noway he's gonna make us do 95.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
What do we do?
We did 100.
Yeah, we did 100, that's right.
We got to like 90 and there'sno way he's going to make us do
95.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
What'd we do?
We did a hundred.
We did a hundred.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
We got to like 90 and there's probably like seven or
eight kids that are like this isawesome, I can't believe I'm
doing this and we do what 10?
And then wait maybe like five,10 seconds and do.
Then it got to the point whereit's like, okay, we're at 80.
Are we going to just do 95?
Or at this point, are we goingto do a hundred?
And they're, we're gonna do 100, you know.
And then seeing those kids,they couldn't do it.
(18:42):
You know, if you told them, hey, you're gonna do 100 push-ups
five minutes ago when they firststarted, would they have done
it?
No, but you got them to thatpoint where they started
believing in themselves like Igot this, I can do this, I can
do this.
And same thing for football,like with our uh, our peewee
football that we were on um.
You know my oldest, he just gotdone with sixth grade, so now
he's going to school ball.
But his class, when weoriginally started in third
(19:04):
grade, was 13 kids that playedfootball.
And then the next year, youknow, the kids had fun, they
learned, they enjoyed it.
So the next year, you know,we're up to 18.
And then, fifth grade year,it's like 23.
Then last year it's 30.
And I'll never forget so weused to do at the end of
practice on Thursdays.
We're going to hey, you knowwhat we're going to do 100-yard
suicides Every 10 yards.
Going to do it all the way downthe field Because you know why
(19:26):
no other team does it.
And you know you're pushingyourselves, you're showing
yourselves that fourth quartercomes around, you can do it.
And last year I'll never forgetthe first time we did it, like
I heard about this, I heardabout this, I can't wait.
And then what they do, they didevery five yards.
And then there's times whereit's like hey, we've reached
time, boys, like we're not gonnahave time to do it, and there's
kids that stayed after and thenall of a sudden they all did it
(19:48):
as a team.
And then you're like that'swhat you're trying to instill in
these kids, right, and stuffthat when they first start out,
you know we can't do that.
We can't do that to the pointwhere it's no, like we love
doing that.
That's what makes us different.
You know that work ethic andyou guys talk about like back to
high school ball and stuff likethat.
I was lucky enough to see bothsides of it.
So for high school football.
(20:09):
We had a coach.
My freshman year, sophomoreyear comes around, we get
another coach and he sticksaround for two years, probably
the best coach that we had.
And then senior year you knowthat coach quit on us, so four.
And then senior year you knowthat coach quit on us, so four
years.
We had three coaches.
Each time they come in in thespring, it's like, hey, like
we're gonna build something here, we're gonna build culture.
I believe in you boys, I loveyou boys, it's what we're gonna
(20:29):
do.
And all of a sudden, here comesoctober.
Hey guys, um, I decided to takeanother position over here.
Yeah, use this as a steppingstool.
You know, same thing.
Next one comes in.
He was probably the best onebecause he played college ball.
He was kind of like your coach,right, like no, you know, I
remember I had thumb surgery andI was half in half out of it
because we had to go straight toa scrimmage and I remember this
(20:51):
guy was so intense, threw abarbell across the, you know,
across the locker room, snappedhis clipboard.
I mean just fiery guy.
Pretty sure he was on roids.
So you know, we had terribleculture.
Every time was a stepping stone, stepping stone.
Freshman year we had 19 kidscome out in our class.
You know how Dixie is.
We finished with 23 on ourroster, like my senior year, for
(21:14):
all the grades.
Well, what happened was we werein a walkthrough and the
seniors that year were in awalkthrough.
Kids, you know're.
When they come across in thedrag route, you're going to step
up and you're going to nailthem like you're just going to
nail them.
So we're walking throughliteral walkthroughs this coach
is talking about it and seniortakes off one of our freshmen's
head, wearing helmets, helmet tohelmet, flies up, lands on his
(21:35):
back next day.
There was only six of us leftin that senior class.
Everybody else is like thatcoach don't care about us.
You know flip side basketball.
We had leaders, true leaders.
You had coach edder for threeyears and coach miller for a
year, and those guys wereleaders.
They were building culture.
They were pushing us,explaining everything, every
aspect of the game, what itmeans to be a leader.
(21:57):
And my sophomore year was whenI started playing varsity and
I'll never forget.
Coach Etter comes up.
He's like you can't be a vocalleader At this point, like
you're younger.
We got seniors, we got juniors,but you're going to outwork
everybody, like I know your workethic.
He said when we run suicides,we're going to do it until
somebody beats you.
And I know that you're notgoing to give up.
So you push yourself.
(22:18):
I don't care if a kid cussesyou out, he punches you, you
just keep going.
And that instilled in me, youknow.
You don't always have to talkabout it, you know it's work
ethic, it's the little things.
There's different type ofleaders, right, you got people
that are, I feel like you gotthe smart people, the smart
leaders that are just veryknowledgeable and people follow
them.
You know those are.
(22:38):
Then you got the other leadersthat are work ethic.
Like I'm not going to be ableto tell you, I'm not going to
verbalize everything I want youto do, but you're going to see
me working and you're going tobe like I want to work, like
that, like I want to get there.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
So yeah, no, that's good I, I, yeah, and a good
coach knows that struggle isgood for his team and he's not
scared to let them struggle, umand uh, and then know and I
think you bring up a good pointat the end there that you know
really what then is leadership?
You know, I mean, if you canhave a, do you have to be smart,
(23:12):
Do you have to be athletic, Doyou have to have an unbeatable
work ethic?
You know, I think Maxwell saysthat leadership.
John Maxwell says leadership isinfluence.
You know, I think Maxwell saysthat leadership.
John Maxwell says leadership isinfluence.
Dr Axe, Josh Axe, says thatleadership is a, is a.
I mean, he basically saidleadership's a combination of
(23:32):
encouragement and challenge,like we talked about already.
And so you know, it's not atitle.
You don't have to have the name, you don't have to have the CEO
at the end, you don't have to.
That's not leadership.
I like to think leadership is amixture of being a dreamer and
(23:53):
then being a lover of people,and you have to have a vision.
And where you're going, you canbe a people person.
But if you don't have anywhere,have a vision.
And where you're going Like,you can be a people person, Um,
but if you don't have anywhereto take them, you're not going
anywhere.
Um, but uh, but you, you.
So you have to know whereyou're going and you have to see
a world that no one else sees.
(24:14):
And and then have the have, theuh, the ability or the courage I
guess is really a better way tosay it to move people there,
even though the path is notalways clear.
But then you have to do it withan absolute love for people.
The coaches who are the bestare the ones where the guys know
(24:35):
, the ladies know, that thatcoach loves me and that will
motivate people way more thananything else you talk about.
Well, he, he's on his way outthe door.
Nobody wants to put in for thatguy, Right, Uh, you know, but
you get the guy who's willing toget down there and do the
pushups with you All of a sudden.
That's a different bond, that'sa different relationship.
(24:55):
That guy's leading not justfrom the front, he's leading
from behind, Right, and so youknow that it, it, it takes both.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
It comes down to trust too, right you?
have.
You have to develop that trustto where whether it's a team,
whether it's a business, nomatter what it is, um, people
have to trust you.
They have to trust that thatyou have their best interests at
heart.
That is also the best interestfor the team or for the business
or for whatever.
So trust is a big thing.
(25:22):
I just finished this book byJohn Maxwell, high Road
Leadership, and I don't know ifyou can see it if you're not
watching, but I got notes.
It's written up, highlighted.
I got you know all thesepost-it notes everywhere and I
want to read a passage herebecause John is the master in
leadership in everything he does.
(25:43):
I think this is like his.
I don't know 40th book he'swritten a lot of books, but he
is fantastic.
So John says to be a goodleader, you need positive energy
.
When you don't put otherpeople's opinions in perspective
, you end up expending yourenergy in a nonproductive way.
When someone criticizes you orexpresses negative opinions
(26:04):
about you, if you're in thewrong, then it's your concern
and you need to work on yourselfto fix it.
But if the criticism ornegative comments are not true,
you shouldn't take them to heart.
Don't let someone else's issuebecome yours.
The best thing you can do as ahigh road leader is not to take
it, not to take the bait.
The moment you let yourself besucked in emotionally, you're
(26:28):
playing their negative game andthat game is not worthy of your
time and attention.
The easiest thing to be in theworld is you.
The most difficult thing to beis what other people want you to
be.
Don't let them put you in thatposition.
Talk about that how otherpeople can bring you down and
(26:48):
you're in a leadership position.
I mean, being a leader isdifficult.
It's very difficult and it meansyou have to make decisions that
can could negatively affectpeople in their mind, even
though it may be the bestdecision for the team or the
organization.
So talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
I.
You live in a glass house inleadership.
Everyone's going to questionyour motives, everyone's going
to question your opinions,everyone's going to question
your decisions.
Most of them are going to havethe ability to do that after
something has happened, and sothey can look at something in
reverse and say, well, look,this didn't go well because you
did these five things and youare, on the other hand, you have
to figure everything out beforeit's happened.
(27:30):
That's leadership, and so youdon't have the.
You know, you don't have theluxury of looking back to.
You're trying to figure it outas you go forward, and so it is
easy to live in that glass box,and it is very easy, over time,
for all of the opinions and thecriticism that come from living
(27:51):
in that glass box to reallybegin to drag you down.
No doubt.
I think this comes back to whatare you doing?
Why are you doing it?
If, if you are in a position ofleadership to pad your pocket
to just better your own life,there's only so much of that
(28:13):
glass house pressure you'regoing to be able to take before
you say, screw it.
If, if you are in it for anykind of self-serving thing, it's
going to be difficult.
But if why you are doing it isbecause you believe to the core
(28:33):
of your being that what you dois important, that it adds value
, that it is significant for theworld of the people around you,
you can deal with that a littlebit better because you're not
stuck on.
You know well, this persondoesn't like me, or that I can't
believe they said that, or theyhave no idea what I went
through to do, what we did, andthen they're, they're, they're
(28:55):
pulling it all apart.
No, you, you, you stick closeto why are you doing what you're
doing?
And and, uh, that that'sessential.
I, you know, I mean, I can, Ican speak for myself.
Um, obviously, I'm a, I'm a manof, of faith.
Um, I have a relationship withChrist and that is the most
(29:16):
important piece about my life,my life Scripture talks about in
John chapter 17.
Let me get my verse here John 13, 13,.
You know, there's a story whereChrist is with his disciples
and it's right before Christ iscrucified and he goes in there
(29:37):
and they're all sitting aroundhaving dinner and he gets up and
he takes on the role of aservant and he begins to wash
their feet and we don't reallyunderstand the ritual foot
washing, like you know, in ourculture.
But you know, they wore sandalsand it was dusty and it was it
was agricultural, so they'restomping through, uh, you know
(29:57):
feces and it's nasty and youknow.
So feet were disgusting andthey were gross and only the
lowliest of servants would evertouch someone else's feet.
And Christ comes in and he putson a servant's robe and he
begins to wash their feet.
And you know, first the guys,the disciples, were just what is
(30:17):
he doing?
What?
Why?
Why?
You are Lord, why would youwash my feet?
And he says this in verse 13.
He says you call me teacher andLord, and you are right, for so
I am.
But if I, then your Lord andteacher, have washed your feet,
you also ought to wash oneanother's feet.
(30:38):
And the principle is that realleadership is about serving
people and if you want tosurvive the glass house of
criticism, serve people.
You're not there for yourself.
You're not there to make a namefor yourself.
You're not there to better yourposition.
(30:59):
You're not there to climb theladder for yourself.
You're not there to better yourposition.
You're not there to climb theladder.
You are there for that personand in the same way that Christ
would exemplify what it means toyou know, be a servant, take
care of other people.
That is how we are supposed tolead.
When it comes to leadership andI say that the world revolves on
leadership, it does and outsideof our call to bring people to
(31:25):
Christ, I can't think of a morenoble calling than to be a
leader that understands thatthey are to serve people, that
they are to add value to people,that they are to improve the
quality of everyone else aroundthem.
And so I guess I can say formyself that's how I deal with
(31:48):
the glass house, that it's notabout me.
And there is criticism.
It is difficult, and leadersare leaders are humans.
We, we, we will tend to takethings personally.
It's hard not to.
But if we lose sight of whywe're doing what we're doing, it
it gets to us.
But if we stick with man, itdoesn't matter.
(32:11):
I'm here to serve Now.
That makes a huge difference,yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Being a servant leader.
That that is the key, I think,in life, like for me, what I
have learned, especially youknow in the past what 40, what
42, 42, 42 episodes.
You know we're not doing thispodcast for Dan Schmidt and Ben
Spahr, right?
We're doing this podcast sopeople can learn your story,
(32:39):
people can learn Sean Rubish'sstory, jason Coger's story.
They can hear these stories ofpeople who not only have been
through difficulties in theirlife or build a business or let
a family or let a church orwhatever it is they were.
What they're doing by tellingtheir story is serving others.
They're sharing those, thosedifficulties that they faced
(33:02):
with others being servant.
And and I think once you realizethat that's where true
fulfillment is, not only whetheryou're a leader or you're not a
leader and and I want to talkabout that a little bit get into
um, you may not be thequarterback of the team, you may
not be the captain of the team,you may not be the owner of the
(33:24):
business, the president of theUnited States.
You can be involved in anorganization or a team and still
have play a leadership role.
So talk about Maddie people inan organization or on a team who
may not feel like they're aleader, but how they can take
their role to actually be aleader.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Yeah.
So I mean, I think that's whereJohn Maxwell's definition is so
helpful, because leadership isinfluence and that's not a title
.
There are way too many peoplewho have the title and are not
really qualified to be theleaders, and so don't ever get
stuck on your title.
Don't get stuck on what youfeel like is your, your, your
(34:05):
job description, your leadershipis based on your influence, and
you alone control that.
You control how you treatpeople, you control how you
interact with people, youcontrol how you speak, you
control how you react.
That's all on you.
And if you control, if you, ifyou're working on those things,
don't be surprised when yourinfluence begins to expand.
(34:28):
But I did put a cut down acouple notes and related to that
how do you lead when you're notin charge?
And remember that everyone whois a leader is also a follower
in some sense.
No one is leading in everyaspect of their life, and so
there is an element foreverybody where I'm not in
charge, and yet I still need tobring influence to the table.
(34:50):
Like we talked about,leadership is about being able
to have a vision of the future,and it doesn't have to be.
I need to create aworld-changing product.
It doesn't have to be.
I have to come up with an ideathat no one has had before.
But you see, a way forward thatyou can get there.
(35:11):
But you may not be the onecalling the shots.
And so what are some practicalthings that you can do that help
you influence up the chain ofcommand for people that are over
you?
Number one they will listen toyou when you listen to them.
The fastest way to get yourboss or your leader or whoever
(35:34):
that person that's over you,your coach, if you listen to
them, it's going to be mucheasier for them to listen to you
.
But if you shut down what theysay, if you argue, if you get
defensive, they don't.
They're not going to have timeto hear what you want to say.
So they listen when you listento them.
Always start with honor andrespect, like we just talked
(35:55):
about.
Leaders are human.
We are as insecure as anyoneelse in the world is.
We fight that on a daily basis.
It is a get out of bed struggle, from from from when we get out
of bed to when we get back inbed, you know.
And so whoever is over you thatyou're trying to influence up,
(36:15):
they're insecure.
So start with honor and respect.
Don't belittle them, don't tearthem apart.
Uh, you know, honor them, lovethem, respect them.
If they feel that you actuallyhave their back, they're going
to listen to you.
Um, you gotta be honest.
Whatever you're trying to say,whatever you're trying to
communicate, you have to be ableto communicate it.
(36:36):
I tend to like say somethingbut it takes me a hundred miles
to get there because I'll beataround the bush, and I've had to
learn.
I got to take the fastest routehere.
I have to communicate clearly,honestly.
For me that means I have toreally think through what I'm
going to say before I say it.
If I'm just talking off the topof my head, I just going to
kind of fall into my pattern oftaking forever to say what I
(36:57):
need to say.
So you do have to be honest.
Don't waste your words.
Don't beat around the bush.
Only deal in facts.
Don't make up something that'snot true.
Okay.
If you have to confrontsomebody, something in someone,
only deal with what you know.
Never, never, never fill in theblanks.
Okay, that's the fastest wayfor them to shut you down,
(37:21):
because you don't know theirmotives.
You can't be sure that they didsomething the way you think
that they did it.
And so you know, use a lot ofwords like I think, or it seems,
or maybe there's a pattern,never run in with some dogmatic,
where you always do this andyou always say that and no deal
in facts, not your emotions.
(37:47):
It is interesting that if youneed to say something to a
leader when you say it reallymatters, we all have rhythms in
our day.
There are times when I'm on ajob site and I'm getting
peppered with 50 differentquestions at once.
That's probably not a real goodtime to talk to me about
something that bothered youyesterday.
My brain is in a milliondifferent places at that point.
(38:10):
So you know, if you havesomething to say, just pay
attention to when you say it.
It really does matter.
There's a, there's a time and aplace.
Um, if you want to be heard, ifwhat you're saying is really
important, then take the time tofigure out when I should say it
.
Um, don't threaten theirposition.
Leadership is service.
(38:32):
It is not self-serving, um.
And if you are out to betteryourself and you're hoping that
if I can push back against thisleader, that maybe I will take
his spot or his job, or you knowthat's very self-serving.
Do not expect to have anyinfluence up the chain of
command that way.
(38:52):
Respect who they are, respecthow they've gotten to that
position, honor them uh, in thatyou know a good leader is is
respect how they've gotten tothat position.
Honor them in that you know agood leader is.
I don't know of a good leaderwho doesn't want someone
underneath them that providesthem helpful feedback and is
honest with them and isinterested in the cause of which
(39:15):
they are pushing.
And so I think most leaderswould welcome a person who says
I'm not in charge, but I reallywant to still influence the
direction of where we're going.
I don't know any leaders whowould say I don't want that at
all.
If that leader exists, then heis just completely about himself
and maybe you ought to find anew position.
But any good leader is going towelcome that.
(39:37):
But you have to do it in theright way, and so you know,
whatever your position is, thatdoesn't matter.
Your title doesn't matter.
It comes down to your influence.
If you've positioned yourselfin a place where you are a good
help and a good employee andyou're a good listener and
you're empathetic andunderstanding of them, they will
listen For sure.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
And I, I, uh, I don't know what podcast I was
listening to last week, but itwas someone that that has done
very, very well in their life.
But they talked about how, whenthey started at a specific
company, you know, they hadthese expectations of of being
the big shot, you know, comingright in and being the big shot
because of their experiencesfrom a prior job where they came
in and they weren't.
They were kind of put in theirplace.
(40:20):
So then what they did iseverything that nobody else
wanted to do, from cleaning thebathrooms to sweeping the floors
, to staying late, to come inand early, to doing it to where
everybody took notice, to, towhere they were, so that they
made themselves so valuablebecause of all the different
things they did outside of theirjob you know their specific job
(40:43):
duties that they had to takenote of what this person was
doing.
And then they worked themselvesup up the company ladder
because of that and they keptdoing it, even though they were
in a leadership position.
They would, you know, pick uptrash around the bathroom, you
know.
I mean all these little thingsthat you can do even if you're
not the owner, the leader, youknow, the project manager.
(41:07):
You know, whatever it is, youcan do the little things that
people take notice of, and Ithink that's important.
And one big thing that I haveI've really learned throughout
my life and again especially thepast couple years is stop
chasing what's easy.
You know we talk aboutdiscipline, we talked about it,
you know I don't know whatepisode it was 20-something or
(41:29):
whatever back about developingdiscipline.
But doing what's easy is theselfish choice.
What's easy for you is rarelywhat's best for others.
That's right and that's part ofleadership is sometimes you got
to take that difficult road.
You got to have that difficultconversation or you got to have
a come to Jesus moment with,with your team.
(41:50):
Um to where you.
You know it's tough, you knowit's not.
Conflict is not easy and it'snot always necessary, but
there's times when it is.
And if you're going to be aleader, you've got to take the
tough road In a lot of cases.
If you take what's easy, it'srarely the best choice.
(42:10):
And we talked about John Maxwelland he's got a famous quote.
It says a leader is one whoknows the way, goes the way and
shows the way.
You know.
So that goes back to you know,if you're doing pushups with
your team or if you're cleaningtoilets.
You know people see that youdon't just say, hey, go do this,
you do it with them or you showthem how to do it.
(42:32):
So those are all valuable,valuable things, maddie.
Is there anything else outthere you can think of?
Maybe you've dealt with in yourbusiness life, in your church
life, in your family life, whereyou know leadership took a
critical role and you had tostep up.
Speaker 5 (42:55):
I mean, obviously, you know, my journey in being a
business owner has been ajourney in developing leadership
and what started out as I amI'm I'm broke and I've got bills
and I have to survive, you knowturned into a business.
And then you know, a businesshas to evolve and as it evolves
(43:18):
I have to evolve, I have tochange.
You know I've made a lot ofmistakes along the way.
I've handled situations poorlyand so the the evolving of
(43:40):
myself into that leadership roleand I'm a long way you know
from where I need to be.
But I guess just want to, youknow, encourage your listeners
that I mean, this isn't like,this is a daily thing.
Like you, there's a struggleinvolved.
You're not going to always getit right, but be authentic, say
I'm sorry, I screwed up.
(44:01):
You know, man, people get a lotof grace for that when you just
own it.
You know, back to talking aboutyour responsibility level and
stuff.
So you're not going to get itright, but own it when you don't
and be okay with the process,fall in love with the journey of
the growth, fall in love withthe journey of the growth, fall
in love with the journey ofimproving in my leadership
(44:21):
skills and, um, you know, aleader is someone who has to
continually be learning.
Uh, you've got to put yourselfin a position to do that.
Uh, if you don't have a methodfor cultivating your mind and
turning over the soil in yourmind, you need one.
Uh, you can't lead effectivelywithout it.
You can't lead without knowingwhere you're going.
(44:43):
And so you know, maybe you needto sit down and figure that out
Again.
For me, the business has beenthe training ground for
leadership for me, and then thathas translated into so many
other areas of my life, and soI'm grateful, you know, that the
Lord put all that together.
I, it's not really how I wouldhave planned it, um, but but for
(45:06):
me it was necessary, um to, toget to where we're at, and we're
only just getting started.
There's a long way to go.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I agree, I uh, that's what I say.
I feel like I am just gettingstarted and you hit on something
there and I think we've talkedabout this before.
But you know, for those peoplewho you know, whether it's it's
with your work or it's with yourum, your mind, your body,
whatever it is, take it day byday.
You know, don't, don't set outto do something and think that
(45:38):
you're going to do it, and nottake it day by day, because what
you have to do is when you wakeup in the morning.
You know, I wake up everymorning early.
It's tough, it's really toughgetting out of bed and then it's
tough going to work out.
You know, I'm constantly in mymind telling myself oh, come on,
you, you got out of bed, you'rehere, you're doing what you
(46:05):
need to do, but I'm not reallypushing myself, but I do, I push
, my try to push myself hard.
I know what my demons are.
I know what my weaknesses are.
I know that when, um, when I'mnot busy, I'm lazy and I don't
like that feeling.
Even on, even on Sundayafternoons, you know, we get
back from a basketball game andI'm sitting on the couch and I'm
on my phone or I'm reading abook, like I feel lazy and I do
not like that feeling.
(46:26):
So what do I do?
What did I just apply for here?
A couple months ago I heard on aon a podcast.
It was on the resilience show,chad Wright.
He's a former Navy SEAL.
It was on the resilience show,chad right.
He's a former Navy SEAL.
Crazy story Uh was not a gooddude but was a Navy SEAL.
Turns his life around, findsfaith, starts a.
Um, it's called a three ofseven project.
(46:49):
He's down in Rome, rome,georgia, and he heard him on
this podcast telling his storyand he talked about this
opportunity called the right ofpassage.
And so I get online and I startlooking what is the right of
passage?
Well, the right of passage is achallenge.
It's a 24 hour hike in themountains of Georgia, no breaks,
(47:12):
no stops, 24 hours through thedarkness and the light.
And uh, but you had to applyfor it.
You know, you had to kind oftell your story and apply for it
.
And I was like well you knowwhat?
I'm going to go out and walk forsix hours.
So I went to the Arboretum oneSaturday morning at five in the
morning and I just walked forsix hours Cause I just wanted to
(47:32):
see.
You know, may work out everyday, but when you get to those
you know you're talking hoursand not one hour.
I don't know how I'm going to.
You know how, how my body'sgoing to react.
So I did the six hour thing andit hurt.
I'm not gonna lie.
It did hurt.
Um, but I was like you knowwhat that means.
I'm getting soft, I need, Ineed something more.
(47:53):
So I applied for it and uh,good or bad, I was accepted.
And so at the end of June, uh,I'll be doing the rite of
passage with Chad and hisbrother and a couple other Navy
SEALs and, uh, you know, Iadmire, I admire all our
military personnel, those whohave served our country and
those, for some reason, you know, like Jocko and those guys and
(48:16):
Chad, you know, I just there'sjust something different about,
about those leaders whosacrifice so much, not only
mentally and physically, to getthrough hell week and to get
through the challenges of tryingto become a Navy SEAL and then
going and serving our countryright, sacrificing their lives.
(48:39):
You know, having their, theirbrothers or their sisters beside
them die the ultimate sacrifice.
And so my journey is now to seecan I walk alongside these guys
and figure out where mymentality is?
So, uh, I don't know what thathas to do with leadership,
(48:59):
really, other than what I'mtrying to do is push myself and
maybe others will see that totry to push themselves, because
again it goes back to me withwanting to improve our community
, to improve my family, toimprove our friendships, um, and
if that means I've got to gothrough some pain and some
sacrifice to do that, I'm goingto do that.
(49:19):
So at the end of June, maybe mylast days, that's a long walk
it is yeah, I did.
I did 20 miles in the six hours.
So, um, yeah, yeah, if you'retalking maybe 60, 80, a hundred
miles, I don't.
I don't know what it'll be, butum yeah, ready or not, I come
(49:41):
at least georgia, and gene'sprobably really cool that's
right you won't have to sweattoo much they'll be shaded
I'll carry a pack yeah, not abig pack, but, um, yeah, I've
got a whole list of stuff theysent me that I have to have to
take.
So I'm really, I'm reallyexcited and you know, I think I
sent when I got accepted, I dida screenshot of the email and
sent it to some friends and, andthen Brad, was like
(50:04):
congratulations, I think.
So I'm excited for that, but um,I don't know how I got down
that rabbit hole, but regardless, um, you know, those are things
I'm trying to do, and and andmy leadership role is is to show
others that, um, you know, I'mgoing to try to push myself, you
know, to the to the best of myabilities.
(50:27):
And so, maddie, is thereanything in closing, you want to
add any uh words of inspirationout there?
Speaker 5 (50:34):
Yeah, everyone has influence, um, and so what you
do with it is really up to you.
Uh, you can be a good leader.
You can be a bad leader.
We have a ton ofrepresentations of bad leaders
all around us.
What you decide to do with thatreally is up to you.
And so I would say that God hasplaced inside of everybody a
(50:56):
capacity, and that capacity isthe way that we are fearfully
and wonderfully made and puttogether and then, over our life
, our humanity kind of buriesthat.
Our experiences bury that, our,our fears bury that, our
weaknesses bury that.
And, um, I you know, I thinkthe, the, the reality of the
(51:17):
struggle is man, how do I, howdo I be exactly who I was
created to be?
Because that's what the worldneeds.
The world needs who you weremade to be, and that is
leadership.
If you're who God made you to be, there will be people following
, and so don't be scared to stepinto that, to figure that out,
(51:39):
don't be scared of the strugglesDan's talking about, to work
through your humanity, to workthrough your weaknesses, um,
that's all part of the process.
But your world needs you, uh,and your world is better because
you're in your world and uh,your responsibility is to
continue to improve it.
And you know I mean.
(51:59):
The reality is, if we all, ifwe all live that way every day,
that idea of servant leadership,we do change the world.
And that's what leaders do.
They change the world.
The world's different becauseof leadership, and so it's a
high calling, the highest ofcallings, and so jump in.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Great advice, Ben.
You got anything to add.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
No, I just feel.
So this is kind of on topic,kind of not right.
One of the big things I feellike with leadership is
confidence.
That's one of the big things Ifeel like in a leader.
You've got to be confident andyou've got to be strong in your
morals and so back, I don't know, I get old.
I feel like I'm still like 18,you know, but really I'm 37.
(52:48):
But this is back earlier in mylife.
My sister-in-law was engaged tothis guy and he had demons that
he was struggling and I was soyoung in my, in my faith and my
confidence.
I always battledself-confidence and it was
something where it's like youfeel something you know, talk
about man of God and and beingin your faith, right, and I just
(53:10):
like you know, I'm not notqualified, I'm not not the
person to tell this guy aboutGod.
Well, tragically he died andI'll never forget just sitting
in his funeral and I'm sittingthere like man.
I wish I would have saidsomething, you know, and it's
just goes back to kind of likewhere, where a leader comes from
right Confidence, so fastforward, like maybe six, seven
(53:31):
years later saw somebody onFacebook read to say something
and I reached out to him and Ididn't say anything that changed
my life or his life, you know,but we talked about God for a
minute and a little bit.
Tragically, one day he got hitby a semi truck on the side of
the road and he died.
And I'm just sitting there likejust thinking like at least I
(53:52):
said something that time, youknow.
At least I know where he'sgoing, you know, because the
time I did and I still strugglewith that and I say that and
just confidence You're alwaysbuilding, right, and those
little things like that itconstantly, you're constantly
building through life.
I feel like God puts you throughthings for certain reasons,
right?
I know I talk about my missiontrip a lot.
(54:12):
That was the time to justchange my life completely and,
um, you know, feeling dealingwith self-confidence issues and
self-esteem issues when I wasyounger, you know that was
originally why I tried to changemy weight and everything was
because I was so overweight andI felt just.
And then you go over to Haitiand you know I was just when I
(54:34):
first started working for Danhad jeans and a polo on at the
gym and everybody's like man, Ididn't even recognize you in
jeans and a polo.
So I always just wearsweatpants and t-shirt.
I really don't care what I looklike.
Well, that goes back to haiti,right?
Remember doing revivals at nightand these people going like I
can't go, like I'm not allowedgoing to church, I'm not allowed
doing being with god, becausewhat I wear and you know.
(54:56):
So that's like, if it's justsuch a battle that I constantly
deal with with, like selfself-esteem.
So, when I got back from Haiti,I'm like I'm not going to try
to dress to impress anyone, I'mnot going to try to lose weight
for other people, I'm just goingto try to build on myself,
right, build my self-confidence,build this stuff.
And when you're talking aboutleader and the man of God and
stuff like that, and just likethat's where your leadership
(55:16):
starts, right, cause who youknow, serving a people, who's
that based off of Jesus, right,the ultimate.
So that's where I just kind offelt like that was.
You know, confidence is whereleadership comes from, too, and
none of us are confident.
I feel like that's somethingthat everyone battles with is
confidence, you know.
But if you've somehow anchoryourself in faith, anchor
(55:38):
yourself in your morals, and youjust are confident in it, then
I feel like that creates abetter leader as well.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
I agree those are valuable words and I think, you
know, if anything this podcasthas taught me, is that a lot of
people are struggling, you know,and they're struggling in their
own difficulties, whatever, andSome may seem big to other
people and not big to some, butto that individual they're
(56:07):
difficulties that they're tryingto get through and people are
struggling.
I hope that anybody listeningto this podcast is not afraid to
talk to those people, to havethose conversations.
You don't have to give them,you know, all these these words
of wisdoms or these great quotesthat we're reading, it's, it's
(56:28):
a lot of times.
It's just about how you doingand listening, you know, and
just saying, hey man, I knowit's tough, you know tomorrow's
a new day, You're going to getthrough it.
I think that's important.
I think it's, it's somethingthat I've learned, you know,
(56:48):
just in the past year of ofdoing this podcast is, you know,
kind of taking a step back andlooking at at how other people
were raised, the challenges thatthey faced, the difficulties
that may be happening in theirlives or in their work, or
whatever it may be.
Is is just offering that ear tolisten, because a lot of people
are out there struggling and Ithink that's part of being a
leader.
And whether or not you're aleader in your business or on
your sports team, you can be aleader at your school.
(57:11):
If you're a kid and you knowsomeone's struggling, sit down
and talk to them, offer thatadvice, just to be there.
For, know, we all have a lot togive, um, and and it may be
different for what I can give,to what Maddie can give or what
Ben can give Um, but everybody'sgot something to give and uh,
and don't be afraid to do it.
(57:32):
So, um, maddie, thank you.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
Pleasure to be with you guys.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
Appreciate you guys.
Leadership you guys are.
You guys are rock stars.
I look up to both of you.
Well, we appreciate youAppreciate you.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
For sure, people can find Matty
ledgerwoodhomerestorationcom Yep.
Get on Facebook, instagram,check out all those pictures.
Amazing work, very, verycreative, very unique in the
construction industry, whetheryou're looking for a home, a
home addition, a bathroomremodel, whatever it is, you
guys kind of do a little bit ofeverything, right.
Speaker 5 (58:05):
We do and I am.
I am one piece of that.
There's a huge team behind it,and I am they.
I have a lot of guys that areway better at this than I am,
and so I'm grateful for them.
I just get to steer the boat alittle bit, and that's
leadership, right.
Speaker 3 (58:20):
Yes, hey, everybody again.
Like share, subscribe, hit thatlittle bell notification on the
YouTube channel.
We appreciate your continuedsupport.
I just continue to love to havethose conversations with people
at basketball games or you knowout in the community that they
talk about a specific episode.
(58:41):
There's certain things thatpeople take from these podcasts.
Right, it may just be onecomment, it may be one quote, it
may be somebody's story, butevery episode I'll get something
where it's like man, thatreally hit me because I went
through this with my mom or thishappened, and so be sure to
share it with others.
As the Be Tempered movementcontinues to grow.
(59:01):
Share it with others as, as, uh, you know, the be tempered
movement continues to grow.
We're going to do our part touh continue to provide quality
guests and and amazing storiesand, uh, you know continue to
move this thing forward.
Speaker 4 (59:10):
One of the biggest ways is also to comment.
If you can just comment and putan at and then tag somebody in
it, those comments get into thealgorithm and then we get more
views and then more people cansee it.
But, like Dan said, every timethere's at least one or two,
that just yeah.
And it's always one or two youdon't expect, you know.
It's like well, I'm sure thisepisode will hit so and so yeah.
Then you get a text from theother, so and so that you didn't
think about, so it's prettycool, yeah, but thank you
(59:32):
everybody and go out and betempered hi, my name is ali
schmidt.
This is my dad, dan he ownskatrin.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Allie.
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it's your home you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass Final replacement
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(01:00:00):
Catron's Glass, the clear.
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, Dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thanks, allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
it's your home you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass Final replacement
.
Windows from Catron's come witha lifetime warranty, including
accidental glass breakagereplacement.
Also ask for custom showerdoors and many other products
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years.
(00:26):
Kitchen's best.
The clear choice.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
This is Be Tempered.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, episode number 42.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Confidently, you sure , yep.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Good.
Good.
We've got an interesting topictoday that is near and dear to
my heart and very important inour world today, which is a
leadership.
Leaders must own everything intheir world.
There's no one else to blame.
The leader sets the tone.
(01:22):
Whether a team succeeds orfails is all on the leader.
That is extreme ownership.
Good leaders don't make excuses.
Instead, they figure out a wayto get it done and win.
A leader must be humble but notpassive, aggressive but not
overbearing but not overbearing.
(01:42):
They must instill a culture ofaccountability, discipline and
trust, because without these, ateam, no matter how talented,
will fail.
And this is a passage fromJocko Willink in his book
Extreme Ownership how US NavySEALs lead and win.
(02:02):
And that right there is thefoundation of everything we're
talking about today.
Leadership isn't just aboutbeing in charge, it's about
taking full ownership of theculture you create.
And to help us break this down,back for round number three,
we've got Maddie Ledgerwood herewith me.
Maddie, again, welcome back tothe Be Tempered podcast.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
It is great to be with back with you guys.
Appreciate the invite.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, and if if you're not watching, maddie is
loaded up on the be temperedgear.
He looks good with the hat andshirt and, uh, you know, I love
seeing seeing that people walkin our buddy, matt roberts I see
him at the gym every morning.
Sometimes he'll walk in, he'llhave the be tempered shirt on
and it just makes me feel good.
That's right.
(02:47):
It's pretty awesome.
It should.
So, matty, hearing those wordsfrom Jocko, you said you read
the book I'm in.
I'm about three quarters of theway through that book, extreme
Ownership, which is fantasticbook to read.
What stands out to you mostabout leadership's role in
shaping culture, aboutleadership's role in shaping
(03:07):
culture.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
That's a big question .
I mean, if you start with hisfirst sentence there, where he
talks about you know, the leaderhas to own everything.
You know that's that concept ofresponsibility.
Like, you know, the leader iswilling to hold the line on
every piece of whatever it isthat comes across.
You know, the leader is willingto hold the line on every,
every piece of whatever it isthat that comes across.
Uh, you know the desk, and sohe he's, he's not scared of that
(03:31):
responsibility, um, and as heowns the responsibility for
everything that is going on,then that allows him to begin to
develop a way of doing things.
So much of that comes from theleader's personality, who he is,
(03:52):
his upbringing, his experiencesin life, and that's what makes
every leader a little bitdifferent, a little bit unique,
because they're going to colorit with who they are, with, with
their, with who they are, um,but, at the core, every leader
is creating a culture.
I think, honestly, the questionis whether or not they're
(04:12):
creating a good culture or not.
Um, you know this, this worldruns on leadership.
Ai is impressive, um, but AIdoesn't run countries, it
doesn't run businesses.
Uh, it, it.
It doesn't run families.
It doesn't run businesses.
It doesn't run families.
It doesn't run nonprofits.
It doesn't run churches.
At the end of the day, there'salways somebody in charge, and
(04:33):
you know whether that person isa good leader or a bad leader.
You know that remains to bedecided, but make no mistake
about it leadership runs theworld.
But make no mistake about it.
Leadership runs the world.
And so if you've got a guywho's willing to own his stuff
and is responsible and thencreates a culture around you
know who he is he can be anexceptional leader.
(04:56):
She can be an exceptionalleader.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
For sure, for sure, and I think we see that in
today's society, especially inpolitics, right, absolutely.
You know, the politicalenvironment is one where it's
more about placing blame andpointing the finger.
It's not about taking ownership.
And maybe that's because of howour elections work, with, you
know, changing every four yearsor two years, depending on
(05:20):
whatever it is.
But that's what drives me crazyabout politics is that people
don't take ownership for thosedecisions, even if they voted on
something, um, you know, 10years ago and and that whatever
that was voted on makes thechange doesn't happen for 10
years.
And then they're like, oh no,no, you know, I didn't my mind
changed, or this or that mantake ownership for it.
(05:41):
I uh be vulnerable and be likeyou know what?
Yeah, this is a decision I madeat this time, but you know,
I've seen things happen and thisis why my mind has changed.
You got to take ownership of it.
That annoys me to no end degreewhen people try to place blame
Absolutely.
So you're involved in business,you run your own business,
(06:01):
you've got a family.
You're involved in business,you run your own business,
you've got a family.
You're involved in your church,you're involved in the
community.
You do so many things.
How do leaders balance holdingpeople accountable while still
creating an environment of trustand respect?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
The hardest person to lead is yourself, and good
leaders always start there.
They start with theresponsibility they have to move
themselves forward, to improvetheir weaknesses, to uh, to to
put their strengths on display,I guess.
(06:43):
But they've learned to leadthemselves.
Exceptional leaders across theboard.
They've learned to leadthemselves.
When you learn to lead yourself,which is the hardest person
there is to lead, it is mucheasier than to.
So here's the thing we offer somuch grace for ourself and we
(07:06):
will give ourselves massiveleads and and uh, you know
justifications and everythingelse, cause, oh, they don't.
They don't understand what Ihad to deal with or what I was
went through, or they don'tunderstand my past, or they
don't understand.
This is why I am the way I amand and excuse, excuse, excuse,
just like you're talking aboutsomeone who's leading themselves
, has learned to shut all thatoff and just push forward.
(07:30):
But as they've learned to dothat, it actually does help them
.
Then, have grace with otherpeople, because the flip side of
us having grace with ourselvesis that we have no grace with
anyone else, and so everyoneelse gets a super short leash.
And you know, do it exactlythis way, or the way I said to
do it.
Or you know, and and and and,all of a sudden, all this grace
(07:51):
and justification we have forourself we no longer have with
anyone else.
Person who leads themselves well, they're able to then offer
grace to other people, andthat's what people need in order
to follow.
They need to feel like, hey,this guy has my best interest at
heart, this lady really caresabout me, this is someone I can
(08:14):
I feel confident or comfortablebehind following.
And so I think, if you have aleader who is willing to hold
themselves accountable, to leadthemselves well, that you do
start to juggle a lot of things,because you know, that does
(08:36):
become a person that people arekind of gravitate towards.
But if that person has thecharacter to lead themselves
well, that really is what allowsthem to be able to share that
leadership in a family unit andin a business unit and in a
sports league and whatever thedifferent avenues are.
(08:57):
And so balancing it is tough,but it starts with leading
yourself well.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
It does.
That's a, that's a hundredpercent.
I think back, you know, towhere I was as a leader in high
school, you know, in sports, incollege, in sports and in school
, and then at a young agerunning a business and trying to
figure things out and andfinally, really for me it hasn't
really clicked.
I mean, I feel like I did agood job in leadership at that
(09:26):
young age but I honestly feellike I've just gotten started
the past two or three years whenI recognized I've got to get
myself right, I've got to get mymind right, I've got to get my
body right so that I can be apositive influence on the people
that work for me, on mychildren, on my wife, on our
(09:46):
friends, to try to do what I sayis make this world a better
place.
You know I can't, I can't relyon, you know, our politicians
and our world leaders and theseother people.
It starts with us and that'sthat's the core to to being a
good leader, I feel like, isgetting yourself right, like you
said, so that other peoplewatch you and want to strive to
(10:13):
be like you and uh, and, andthat's a difficult thing.
And I thought back to um, myhigh school football days and,
um, I thought back to myfreshman year in high school.
We were, oh, in 10, we did notwin a single.
To my freshman year in highschool.
We were 0-10.
We did not win a single game.
My freshman year in high school, and the coach that we had was
not a bad coach, he was a goodguy but he worked a full-time
job.
He showed up right whenpractice started and we just
(10:38):
weren't good.
But my sophomore year we got anew coach who came in.
He was a teacher, he was aformer football player, college
football player, tried out forthe NFL.
He was a big man, he demanded abig presence and he was a
leader and he led by example.
And I look back on that becausewe went one and nine.
(11:01):
My sophomore year he startedcreating a culture of hey, if
you want to succeed you have towork.
You can't just show up andexpect it to happen.
One and nine sophomore year.
Two and eight junior year.
We're starting to develop thatculture.
That's only two wins.
We still we're not good, butyou could feel the change in the
(11:23):
momentum, not only from oursmall little football team with
40 kids on it, but in the school, the environment of the school.
Coming into our senior year, wewere rocking and rolling.
We felt really good about wherewe were at.
We had a great core of kids.
We had other kids in our classthat had never played football.
That came out because theywanted to be a part of that
(11:44):
culture and we went six and fourand that's.
You know, that's a winningrecord.
At the time that was our schoolrecord for the most wins in a
football season, but it wasawesome.
It was a great season.
I mean it was.
It was a very rewarding to seewhere we came from, you know,
with the prior three yearshaving three wins out of 30
(12:06):
games, to being able to go sixand four.
And it was all because of theleadership of coach Kemper, who
came in and changed the culture.
We followed his lead and so Ilearned so much, you know, as a
young 15, 16, 17, 18 year oldkid from him that I was able to
carry on into college, um, butthat was a.
(12:26):
That was a pivotal moment in mylife where I like, okay, this,
this is what a leader looks like, and so so that was a.
That was a big deal for me.
Have there been experienceslike that in your life, maybe
maybe at church, maybe at school, maybe with your family or
business, where where you can,can you?
You can remember specific timeswhere it was like okay, that's
what leadership looks like.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Yeah, I would say I'm similar to you in the sense
that I didn't really uh everview myself as much of a leader.
Um, you know, till till Ireally began this journey of a
lot of personal growth and andthen through that, I was like
you know that that's valuableand that that that carries, you
know, some help with it.
(13:09):
And so you know this wholetopic of leadership even though
I've been around it a lot in mylife, I wouldn't say it's
something that I've really umpersonal to me till the last
five or six years or so.
And so, yeah, as I sit now andlook back, I can say, you know,
there I had elements of thatgrowing up and you know, I, I, I
saw it displayed, uh, you know,here and there, um, I, I did
(13:34):
have a, uh, we went, I went to areally really really small
college and, uh, they had asmall football team.
It honestly was basically just aglorified high school football
team.
So I don't tell people I playedcollege football, because that
is not true, but I was on theteam and and you know, we did
have a coach that was was likethat and who did push us and you
(13:56):
know he did create a culture ofaccountability.
He created a culture of workand hard work and and I thought
about that a lot and I thinkthere is a common of
accountability.
He created a culture of workand hard work and and I've
thought about that a lot and Ithink there is a common thread
there, and I think this is whycoaches are so valuable, because
they both encourage you andthey challenge you.
They expect something from youthat you don't think you have to
(14:17):
.
You don't think you have thecapacity to do it.
Can we, can we actually get tosix wins?
And we've only ever won one ortwo wins a season.
Yeah, you know, I mean, he sawsomething in you guys that you
didn't even see in yourself, andhe encouraged you and he pushed
you.
Yeah, and leadership does both,and so, you know, I tend to, uh
(14:38):
, sit a lot more on theencouraging and loving side and
and I've had to work on thechallenge side, you know to to
to speak plainly and clearly andand expect things from people
more than they can expect fromthemselves.
Good leaders draw from peoplewhat they don't know is in there
, and that creates momentum, andthat's where leadership starts
(15:01):
to work, because you get peoplewho say they start to develop
some confidence I can do this.
I didn't know I could do this.
I have a skill that I neverrealized I had before, and all
of a sudden they start to buildsome confidence.
Well, then they buy in more,and then they buy in more.
It's like this compoundingeffect that you know, you.
(15:22):
You, you have someone who'swilling, at the beginning, to
push a rock all by himself, withall of his might, and, and
eventually he gets an entirearmy of people that are pushing
the rock as well.
Um, but someone has to start it.
Someone's got to be the personthat says, hey, we're going to
get moving in a direction, and,uh, so yeah, good leadership
(15:43):
will bring encouragement andchallenge.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
Yeah, for sure.
We're kind of dealing with itright now on our little youth
basketball team that Ben and Icoach these, you know, these 10
and 11 year old kids, thatthey've had a really good season
.
We haven't had a lot ofcompetition, um, we're
undefeated, uh, which doesn'tmean anything to me, quite
honestly, because what I'mtrying to develop is these boys
(16:06):
when they're in middle schooland when they go into high
school, you know, and trying topush them in ways that they may
not be pushed at home, because alot of these boys are raised a
lot differently than how I raisemy kids, and not in a bad way.
I raise my kids and not in abad way um, more of a comfort.
(16:27):
Um, you know, we don't want anypain for for this little kid or
that little kid, and we had acouple of tests, uh games this
weekend where it did tested theboys and uh, and we had to have
a little come to Jesus talk athalftime and um um, you know,
there's some things I just can't.
I can't stand and uh, and theywere doing it and um, you know
they came out second half of thegame and and they changed, um,
(16:49):
and and for me you talk aboutrewarding is is when you, when
you see something someone'sdoing like a young, especially a
kid I mean really working withkids is is, uh, what I truly
enjoy doing the most and seeingthem and their element where
they're essentially giving up.
You know, things get tough,it's hard.
(17:11):
I'm going to start crying.
I'm going to look to the standsat mom and dad no, that don't,
that doesn't work with me and uh, and then to flip that switch
and say, look, boys, this is,this is why you're here.
You're not here to beat a team46 to nothing, like we did last
week.
You're here for somecompetition, to get better, to
push yourself, so that when youface better competition, you can
(17:32):
fight through that adversityand you may not win, because
guess what In life, you're goingto lose a lot more than you win
and you've got to figure outhow to deal with that.
So it's been a really fun, uh,really, this past weekend was
really fun for me to be able topush them because we hadn't had
that chance yet.
I mean, you've been a part ofthat right, and that's what I
was thinking.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
When you know, when you talk about good leaders and
everything, and and then theadversity.
Well, what happened?
Like two weeks ago at practice?
We had some games where wemissed some layups and stuff.
We're like, okay, we're gonnakeep track of them.
For every layup we miss, we'regonna do five right.
So we missed 20 oh man.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
So let's do the math and you can see.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
The kids faces are like no, we missed 19 or 19.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
That's right, that's right 95 push-ups to do, and so
the kids are like you there's noway he's gonna make us do 95.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
What do we do?
We did 100.
Yeah, we did 100, that's right.
We got to like 90 and there'sno way he's going to make us do
95.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
What'd we do?
We did a hundred.
We did a hundred.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
We got to like 90 and there's probably like seven or
eight kids that are like this isawesome, I can't believe I'm
doing this and we do what 10?
And then wait maybe like five,10 seconds and do.
Then it got to the point whereit's like, okay, we're at 80.
Are we going to just do 95?
Or at this point, are we goingto do a hundred?
And they're, we're gonna do 100, you know.
And then seeing those kids,they couldn't do it.
(18:42):
You know, if you told them, hey, you're gonna do 100 push-ups
five minutes ago when they firststarted, would they have done
it?
No, but you got them to thatpoint where they started
believing in themselves like Igot this, I can do this, I can
do this.
And same thing for football,like with our uh, our peewee
football that we were on um.
You know my oldest, he just gotdone with sixth grade, so now
he's going to school ball.
But his class, when weoriginally started in third
(19:04):
grade, was 13 kids that playedfootball.
And then the next year, youknow, the kids had fun, they
learned, they enjoyed it.
So the next year, you know,we're up to 18.
And then, fifth grade year,it's like 23.
Then last year it's 30.
And I'll never forget so weused to do at the end of
practice on Thursdays.
We're going to hey, you knowwhat we're going to do 100-yard
suicides Every 10 yards.
Going to do it all the way downthe field Because you know why
(19:26):
no other team does it.
And you know you're pushingyourselves, you're showing
yourselves that fourth quartercomes around, you can do it.
And last year I'll never forgetthe first time we did it, like
I heard about this, I heardabout this, I can't wait.
And then what they do, they didevery five yards.
And then there's times whereit's like hey, we've reached
time, boys, like we're not gonnahave time to do it, and there's
kids that stayed after and thenall of a sudden they all did it
(19:48):
as a team.
And then you're like that'swhat you're trying to instill in
these kids, right, and stuffthat when they first start out,
you know we can't do that.
We can't do that to the pointwhere it's no, like we love
doing that.
That's what makes us different.
You know that work ethic andyou guys talk about like back to
high school ball and stuff likethat.
I was lucky enough to see bothsides of it.
So for high school football.
(20:09):
We had a coach.
My freshman year, sophomoreyear comes around, we get
another coach and he sticksaround for two years, probably
the best coach that we had.
And then senior year you knowthat coach quit on us, so four.
And then senior year you knowthat coach quit on us, so four
years.
We had three coaches.
Each time they come in in thespring, it's like, hey, like
we're gonna build something here, we're gonna build culture.
I believe in you boys, I loveyou boys, it's what we're gonna
(20:29):
do.
And all of a sudden, here comesoctober.
Hey guys, um, I decided to takeanother position over here.
Yeah, use this as a steppingstool.
You know, same thing.
Next one comes in.
He was probably the best onebecause he played college ball.
He was kind of like your coach,right, like no, you know, I
remember I had thumb surgery andI was half in half out of it
because we had to go straight toa scrimmage and I remember this
(20:51):
guy was so intense, threw abarbell across the, you know,
across the locker room, snappedhis clipboard.
I mean just fiery guy.
Pretty sure he was on roids.
So you know, we had terribleculture.
Every time was a stepping stone, stepping stone.
Freshman year we had 19 kidscome out in our class.
You know how Dixie is.
We finished with 23 on ourroster, like my senior year, for
(21:14):
all the grades.
Well, what happened was we werein a walkthrough and the
seniors that year were in awalkthrough.
Kids, you know're.
When they come across in thedrag route, you're going to step
up and you're going to nailthem like you're just going to
nail them.
So we're walking throughliteral walkthroughs this coach
is talking about it and seniortakes off one of our freshmen's
head, wearing helmets, helmet tohelmet, flies up, lands on his
(21:35):
back next day.
There was only six of us leftin that senior class.
Everybody else is like thatcoach don't care about us.
You know flip side basketball.
We had leaders, true leaders.
You had coach edder for threeyears and coach miller for a
year, and those guys wereleaders.
They were building culture.
They were pushing us,explaining everything, every
aspect of the game, what itmeans to be a leader.
(21:57):
And my sophomore year was whenI started playing varsity and
I'll never forget.
Coach Etter comes up.
He's like you can't be a vocalleader At this point, like
you're younger.
We got seniors, we got juniors,but you're going to outwork
everybody, like I know your workethic.
He said when we run suicides,we're going to do it until
somebody beats you.
And I know that you're notgoing to give up.
So you push yourself.
(22:18):
I don't care if a kid cussesyou out, he punches you, you
just keep going.
And that instilled in me, youknow.
You don't always have to talkabout it, you know it's work
ethic, it's the little things.
There's different type ofleaders, right, you got people
that are, I feel like you gotthe smart people, the smart
leaders that are just veryknowledgeable and people follow
them.
You know those are.
(22:38):
Then you got the other leadersthat are work ethic.
Like I'm not going to be ableto tell you, I'm not going to
verbalize everything I want youto do, but you're going to see
me working and you're going tobe like I want to work, like
that, like I want to get there.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
So yeah, no, that's good I, I, yeah, and a good
coach knows that struggle isgood for his team and he's not
scared to let them struggle, umand uh, and then know and I
think you bring up a good pointat the end there that you know
really what then is leadership?
You know, I mean, if you canhave a, do you have to be smart,
(23:12):
Do you have to be athletic, Doyou have to have an unbeatable
work ethic?
You know, I think Maxwell saysthat leadership.
John Maxwell says leadership isinfluence.
You know, I think Maxwell saysthat leadership.
John Maxwell says leadership isinfluence.
Dr Axe, Josh Axe, says thatleadership is a, is a.
I mean, he basically saidleadership's a combination of
(23:32):
encouragement and challenge,like we talked about already.
And so you know, it's not atitle.
You don't have to have the name, you don't have to have the CEO
at the end, you don't have to.
That's not leadership.
I like to think leadership is amixture of being a dreamer and
(23:53):
then being a lover of people,and you have to have a vision.
And where you're going, you canbe a people person.
But if you don't have anywhere,have a vision.
And where you're going Like,you can be a people person, Um,
but if you don't have anywhereto take them, you're not going
anywhere.
Um, but uh, but you, you.
So you have to know whereyou're going and you have to see
a world that no one else sees.
(24:14):
And and then have the have, theuh, the ability or the courage I
guess is really a better way tosay it to move people there,
even though the path is notalways clear.
But then you have to do it withan absolute love for people.
The coaches who are the bestare the ones where the guys know
(24:35):
, the ladies know, that thatcoach loves me and that will
motivate people way more thananything else you talk about.
Well, he, he's on his way outthe door.
Nobody wants to put in for thatguy, Right, Uh, you know, but
you get the guy who's willing toget down there and do the
pushups with you All of a sudden.
That's a different bond, that'sa different relationship.
(24:55):
That guy's leading not justfrom the front, he's leading
from behind, Right, and so youknow that it, it, it takes both.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
It comes down to trust too, right you?
have.
You have to develop that trustto where whether it's a team,
whether it's a business, nomatter what it is, um, people
have to trust you.
They have to trust that thatyou have their best interests at
heart.
That is also the best interestfor the team or for the business
or for whatever.
So trust is a big thing.
(25:22):
I just finished this book byJohn Maxwell, high Road
Leadership, and I don't know ifyou can see it if you're not
watching, but I got notes.
It's written up, highlighted.
I got you know all thesepost-it notes everywhere and I
want to read a passage herebecause John is the master in
leadership in everything he does.
(25:43):
I think this is like his.
I don't know 40th book he'swritten a lot of books, but he
is fantastic.
So John says to be a goodleader, you need positive energy
.
When you don't put otherpeople's opinions in perspective
, you end up expending yourenergy in a nonproductive way.
When someone criticizes you orexpresses negative opinions
(26:04):
about you, if you're in thewrong, then it's your concern
and you need to work on yourselfto fix it.
But if the criticism ornegative comments are not true,
you shouldn't take them to heart.
Don't let someone else's issuebecome yours.
The best thing you can do as ahigh road leader is not to take
it, not to take the bait.
The moment you let yourself besucked in emotionally, you're
(26:28):
playing their negative game andthat game is not worthy of your
time and attention.
The easiest thing to be in theworld is you.
The most difficult thing to beis what other people want you to
be.
Don't let them put you in thatposition.
Talk about that how otherpeople can bring you down and
(26:48):
you're in a leadership position.
I mean, being a leader isdifficult.
It's very difficult and it meansyou have to make decisions that
can could negatively affectpeople in their mind, even
though it may be the bestdecision for the team or the
organization.
So talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
I.
You live in a glass house inleadership.
Everyone's going to questionyour motives, everyone's going
to question your opinions,everyone's going to question
your decisions.
Most of them are going to havethe ability to do that after
something has happened, and sothey can look at something in
reverse and say, well, look,this didn't go well because you
did these five things and youare, on the other hand, you have
to figure everything out beforeit's happened.
(27:30):
That's leadership, and so youdon't have the.
You know, you don't have theluxury of looking back to.
You're trying to figure it outas you go forward, and so it is
easy to live in that glass box,and it is very easy, over time,
for all of the opinions and thecriticism that come from living
(27:51):
in that glass box to reallybegin to drag you down.
No doubt.
I think this comes back to whatare you doing?
Why are you doing it?
If, if you are in a position ofleadership to pad your pocket
to just better your own life,there's only so much of that
(28:13):
glass house pressure you'regoing to be able to take before
you say, screw it.
If, if you are in it for anykind of self-serving thing, it's
going to be difficult.
But if why you are doing it isbecause you believe to the core
(28:33):
of your being that what you dois important, that it adds value
, that it is significant for theworld of the people around you,
you can deal with that a littlebit better because you're not
stuck on.
You know well, this persondoesn't like me, or that I can't
believe they said that, or theyhave no idea what I went
through to do, what we did, andthen they're, they're, they're
(28:55):
pulling it all apart.
No, you, you, you stick closeto why are you doing what you're
doing?
And and, uh, that that'sessential.
I, you know, I mean, I can, Ican speak for myself.
Um, obviously, I'm a, I'm a manof, of faith.
Um, I have a relationship withChrist and that is the most
(29:16):
important piece about my life,my life Scripture talks about in
John chapter 17.
Let me get my verse here John 13, 13,.
You know, there's a story whereChrist is with his disciples
and it's right before Christ iscrucified and he goes in there
(29:37):
and they're all sitting aroundhaving dinner and he gets up and
he takes on the role of aservant and he begins to wash
their feet and we don't reallyunderstand the ritual foot
washing, like you know, in ourculture.
But you know, they wore sandalsand it was dusty and it was it
was agricultural, so they'restomping through, uh, you know
(29:57):
feces and it's nasty and youknow.
So feet were disgusting andthey were gross and only the
lowliest of servants would evertouch someone else's feet.
And Christ comes in and he putson a servant's robe and he
begins to wash their feet.
And you know, first the guys,the disciples, were just what is
(30:17):
he doing?
What?
Why?
Why?
You are Lord, why would youwash my feet?
And he says this in verse 13.
He says you call me teacher andLord, and you are right, for so
I am.
But if I, then your Lord andteacher, have washed your feet,
you also ought to wash oneanother's feet.
(30:38):
And the principle is that realleadership is about serving
people and if you want tosurvive the glass house of
criticism, serve people.
You're not there for yourself.
You're not there to make a namefor yourself.
You're not there to better yourposition.
(30:59):
You're not there to climb theladder for yourself.
You're not there to better yourposition.
You're not there to climb theladder.
You are there for that personand in the same way that Christ
would exemplify what it means toyou know, be a servant, take
care of other people.
That is how we are supposed tolead.
When it comes to leadership andI say that the world revolves on
leadership, it does and outsideof our call to bring people to
(31:25):
Christ, I can't think of a morenoble calling than to be a
leader that understands thatthey are to serve people, that
they are to add value to people,that they are to improve the
quality of everyone else aroundthem.
And so I guess I can say formyself that's how I deal with
(31:48):
the glass house, that it's notabout me.
And there is criticism.
It is difficult, and leadersare leaders are humans.
We, we, we will tend to takethings personally.
It's hard not to.
But if we lose sight of whywe're doing what we're doing, it
it gets to us.
But if we stick with man, itdoesn't matter.
(32:11):
I'm here to serve Now.
That makes a huge difference,yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Being a servant leader.
That that is the key, I think,in life, like for me, what I
have learned, especially youknow in the past what 40, what
42, 42, 42 episodes.
You know we're not doing thispodcast for Dan Schmidt and Ben
Spahr, right?
We're doing this podcast sopeople can learn your story,
(32:39):
people can learn Sean Rubish'sstory, jason Coger's story.
They can hear these stories ofpeople who not only have been
through difficulties in theirlife or build a business or let
a family or let a church orwhatever it is they were.
What they're doing by tellingtheir story is serving others.
They're sharing those, thosedifficulties that they faced
(33:02):
with others being servant.
And and I think once you realizethat that's where true
fulfillment is, not only whetheryou're a leader or you're not a
leader and and I want to talkabout that a little bit get into
um, you may not be thequarterback of the team, you may
not be the captain of the team,you may not be the owner of the
(33:24):
business, the president of theUnited States.
You can be involved in anorganization or a team and still
have play a leadership role.
So talk about Maddie people inan organization or on a team who
may not feel like they're aleader, but how they can take
their role to actually be aleader.
Speaker 5 (33:43):
Yeah.
So I mean, I think that's whereJohn Maxwell's definition is so
helpful, because leadership isinfluence and that's not a title
.
There are way too many peoplewho have the title and are not
really qualified to be theleaders, and so don't ever get
stuck on your title.
Don't get stuck on what youfeel like is your, your, your
(34:05):
job description, your leadershipis based on your influence, and
you alone control that.
You control how you treatpeople, you control how you
interact with people, youcontrol how you speak, you
control how you react.
That's all on you.
And if you control, if you, ifyou're working on those things,
don't be surprised when yourinfluence begins to expand.
(34:28):
But I did put a cut down acouple notes and related to that
how do you lead when you're notin charge?
And remember that everyone whois a leader is also a follower
in some sense.
No one is leading in everyaspect of their life, and so
there is an element foreverybody where I'm not in
charge, and yet I still need tobring influence to the table.
(34:50):
Like we talked about,leadership is about being able
to have a vision of the future,and it doesn't have to be.
I need to create aworld-changing product.
It doesn't have to be.
I have to come up with an ideathat no one has had before.
But you see, a way forward thatyou can get there.
(35:11):
But you may not be the onecalling the shots.
And so what are some practicalthings that you can do that help
you influence up the chain ofcommand for people that are over
you?
Number one they will listen toyou when you listen to them.
The fastest way to get yourboss or your leader or whoever
(35:34):
that person that's over you,your coach, if you listen to
them, it's going to be mucheasier for them to listen to you
.
But if you shut down what theysay, if you argue, if you get
defensive, they don't.
They're not going to have timeto hear what you want to say.
So they listen when you listento them.
Always start with honor andrespect, like we just talked
(35:55):
about.
Leaders are human.
We are as insecure as anyoneelse in the world is.
We fight that on a daily basis.
It is a get out of bed struggle, from from from when we get out
of bed to when we get back inbed, you know.
And so whoever is over you thatyou're trying to influence up,
(36:15):
they're insecure.
So start with honor and respect.
Don't belittle them, don't tearthem apart.
Uh, you know, honor them, lovethem, respect them.
If they feel that you actuallyhave their back, they're going
to listen to you.
Um, you gotta be honest.
Whatever you're trying to say,whatever you're trying to
communicate, you have to be ableto communicate it.
(36:36):
I tend to like say somethingbut it takes me a hundred miles
to get there because I'll beataround the bush, and I've had to
learn.
I got to take the fastest routehere.
I have to communicate clearly,honestly.
For me that means I have toreally think through what I'm
going to say before I say it.
If I'm just talking off the topof my head, I just going to
kind of fall into my pattern oftaking forever to say what I
(36:57):
need to say.
So you do have to be honest.
Don't waste your words.
Don't beat around the bush.
Only deal in facts.
Don't make up something that'snot true.
Okay.
If you have to confrontsomebody, something in someone,
only deal with what you know.
Never, never, never fill in theblanks.
Okay, that's the fastest wayfor them to shut you down,
(37:21):
because you don't know theirmotives.
You can't be sure that they didsomething the way you think
that they did it.
And so you know, use a lot ofwords like I think, or it seems,
or maybe there's a pattern,never run in with some dogmatic,
where you always do this andyou always say that and no deal
in facts, not your emotions.
(37:47):
It is interesting that if youneed to say something to a
leader when you say it reallymatters, we all have rhythms in
our day.
There are times when I'm on ajob site and I'm getting
peppered with 50 differentquestions at once.
That's probably not a real goodtime to talk to me about
something that bothered youyesterday.
My brain is in a milliondifferent places at that point.
(38:10):
So you know, if you havesomething to say, just pay
attention to when you say it.
It really does matter.
There's a, there's a time and aplace.
Um, if you want to be heard, ifwhat you're saying is really
important, then take the time tofigure out when I should say it
.
Um, don't threaten theirposition.
Leadership is service.
(38:32):
It is not self-serving, um.
And if you are out to betteryourself and you're hoping that
if I can push back against thisleader, that maybe I will take
his spot or his job, or you knowthat's very self-serving.
Do not expect to have anyinfluence up the chain of
command that way.
(38:52):
Respect who they are, respecthow they've gotten to that
position, honor them uh, in thatyou know a good leader is is
respect how they've gotten tothat position.
Honor them in that you know agood leader is.
I don't know of a good leaderwho doesn't want someone
underneath them that providesthem helpful feedback and is
honest with them and isinterested in the cause of which
(39:15):
they are pushing.
And so I think most leaderswould welcome a person who says
I'm not in charge, but I reallywant to still influence the
direction of where we're going.
I don't know any leaders whowould say I don't want that at
all.
If that leader exists, then heis just completely about himself
and maybe you ought to find anew position.
But any good leader is going towelcome that.
(39:37):
But you have to do it in theright way, and so you know,
whatever your position is, thatdoesn't matter.
Your title doesn't matter.
It comes down to your influence.
If you've positioned yourselfin a place where you are a good
help and a good employee andyou're a good listener and
you're empathetic andunderstanding of them, they will
listen For sure.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
And I, I, uh, I don't know what podcast I was
listening to last week, but itwas someone that that has done
very, very well in their life.
But they talked about how, whenthey started at a specific
company, you know, they hadthese expectations of of being
the big shot, you know, comingright in and being the big shot
because of their experiencesfrom a prior job where they came
in and they weren't.
They were kind of put in theirplace.
(40:20):
So then what they did iseverything that nobody else
wanted to do, from cleaning thebathrooms to sweeping the floors
, to staying late, to come inand early, to doing it to where
everybody took notice, to, towhere they were, so that they
made themselves so valuablebecause of all the different
things they did outside of theirjob you know their specific job
(40:43):
duties that they had to takenote of what this person was
doing.
And then they worked themselvesup up the company ladder
because of that and they keptdoing it, even though they were
in a leadership position.
They would, you know, pick uptrash around the bathroom, you
know.
I mean all these little thingsthat you can do even if you're
not the owner, the leader, youknow, the project manager.
(41:07):
You know, whatever it is, youcan do the little things that
people take notice of, and Ithink that's important.
And one big thing that I haveI've really learned throughout
my life and again especially thepast couple years is stop
chasing what's easy.
You know we talk aboutdiscipline, we talked about it,
you know I don't know whatepisode it was 20-something or
(41:29):
whatever back about developingdiscipline.
But doing what's easy is theselfish choice.
What's easy for you is rarelywhat's best for others.
That's right and that's part ofleadership is sometimes you got
to take that difficult road.
You got to have that difficultconversation or you got to have
a come to Jesus moment with,with your team.
(41:50):
Um to where you.
You know it's tough, you knowit's not.
Conflict is not easy and it'snot always necessary, but
there's times when it is.
And if you're going to be aleader, you've got to take the
tough road In a lot of cases.
If you take what's easy, it'srarely the best choice.
(42:10):
And we talked about John Maxwelland he's got a famous quote.
It says a leader is one whoknows the way, goes the way and
shows the way.
You know.
So that goes back to you know,if you're doing pushups with
your team or if you're cleaningtoilets.
You know people see that youdon't just say, hey, go do this,
you do it with them or you showthem how to do it.
(42:32):
So those are all valuable,valuable things, maddie.
Is there anything else outthere you can think of?
Maybe you've dealt with in yourbusiness life, in your church
life, in your family life, whereyou know leadership took a
critical role and you had tostep up.
Speaker 5 (42:55):
I mean, obviously, you know, my journey in being a
business owner has been ajourney in developing leadership
and what started out as I amI'm I'm broke and I've got bills
and I have to survive, you knowturned into a business.
And then you know, a businesshas to evolve and as it evolves
(43:18):
I have to evolve, I have tochange.
You know I've made a lot ofmistakes along the way.
I've handled situations poorlyand so the the evolving of
(43:40):
myself into that leadership roleand I'm a long way you know
from where I need to be.
But I guess just want to, youknow, encourage your listeners
that I mean, this isn't like,this is a daily thing.
Like you, there's a struggleinvolved.
You're not going to always getit right, but be authentic, say
I'm sorry, I screwed up.
(44:01):
You know, man, people get a lotof grace for that when you just
own it.
You know, back to talking aboutyour responsibility level and
stuff.
So you're not going to get itright, but own it when you don't
and be okay with the process,fall in love with the journey of
the growth, fall in love withthe journey of the growth, fall
in love with the journey ofimproving in my leadership
(44:21):
skills and, um, you know, aleader is someone who has to
continually be learning.
Uh, you've got to put yourselfin a position to do that.
Uh, if you don't have a methodfor cultivating your mind and
turning over the soil in yourmind, you need one.
Uh, you can't lead effectivelywithout it.
You can't lead without knowingwhere you're going.
(44:43):
And so you know, maybe you needto sit down and figure that out
Again.
For me, the business has beenthe training ground for
leadership for me, and then thathas translated into so many
other areas of my life, and soI'm grateful, you know, that the
Lord put all that together.
I, it's not really how I wouldhave planned it, um, but but for
(45:06):
me it was necessary, um to, toget to where we're at, and we're
only just getting started.
There's a long way to go.
Speaker 3 (45:13):
I agree, I uh, that's what I say.
I feel like I am just gettingstarted and you hit on something
there and I think we've talkedabout this before.
But you know, for those peoplewho you know, whether it's it's
with your work or it's with yourum, your mind, your body,
whatever it is, take it day byday.
You know, don't, don't set outto do something and think that
(45:38):
you're going to do it, and nottake it day by day, because what
you have to do is when you wakeup in the morning.
You know, I wake up everymorning early.
It's tough, it's really toughgetting out of bed and then it's
tough going to work out.
You know, I'm constantly in mymind telling myself oh, come on,
you, you got out of bed, you'rehere, you're doing what you
(46:05):
need to do, but I'm not reallypushing myself, but I do, I push
, my try to push myself hard.
I know what my demons are.
I know what my weaknesses are.
I know that when, um, when I'mnot busy, I'm lazy and I don't
like that feeling.
Even on, even on Sundayafternoons, you know, we get
back from a basketball game andI'm sitting on the couch and I'm
on my phone or I'm reading abook, like I feel lazy and I do
not like that feeling.
(46:26):
So what do I do?
What did I just apply for here?
A couple months ago I heard on aon a podcast.
It was on the resilience show,chad Wright.
He's a former Navy SEAL.
It was on the resilience show,chad right.
He's a former Navy SEAL.
Crazy story Uh was not a gooddude but was a Navy SEAL.
Turns his life around, findsfaith, starts a.
Um, it's called a three ofseven project.
(46:49):
He's down in Rome, rome,georgia, and he heard him on
this podcast telling his storyand he talked about this
opportunity called the right ofpassage.
And so I get online and I startlooking what is the right of
passage?
Well, the right of passage is achallenge.
It's a 24 hour hike in themountains of Georgia, no breaks,
(47:12):
no stops, 24 hours through thedarkness and the light.
And uh, but you had to applyfor it.
You know, you had to kind oftell your story and apply for it
.
And I was like well you knowwhat?
I'm going to go out and walk forsix hours.
So I went to the Arboretum oneSaturday morning at five in the
morning and I just walked forsix hours Cause I just wanted to
(47:32):
see.
You know, may work out everyday, but when you get to those
you know you're talking hoursand not one hour.
I don't know how I'm going to.
You know how, how my body'sgoing to react.
So I did the six hour thing andit hurt.
I'm not gonna lie.
It did hurt.
Um, but I was like you knowwhat that means.
I'm getting soft, I need, Ineed something more.
(47:53):
So I applied for it and uh,good or bad, I was accepted.
And so at the end of June, uh,I'll be doing the rite of
passage with Chad and hisbrother and a couple other Navy
SEALs and, uh, you know, Iadmire, I admire all our
military personnel, those whohave served our country and
those, for some reason, you know, like Jocko and those guys and
(48:16):
Chad, you know, I just there'sjust something different about,
about those leaders whosacrifice so much, not only
mentally and physically, to getthrough hell week and to get
through the challenges of tryingto become a Navy SEAL and then
going and serving our countryright, sacrificing their lives.
(48:39):
You know, having their, theirbrothers or their sisters beside
them die the ultimate sacrifice.
And so my journey is now to seecan I walk alongside these guys
and figure out where mymentality is?
So, uh, I don't know what thathas to do with leadership,
(48:59):
really, other than what I'mtrying to do is push myself and
maybe others will see that totry to push themselves, because
again it goes back to me withwanting to improve our community
, to improve my family, toimprove our friendships, um, and
if that means I've got to gothrough some pain and some
sacrifice to do that, I'm goingto do that.
(49:19):
So at the end of June, maybe mylast days, that's a long walk
it is yeah, I did.
I did 20 miles in the six hours.
So, um, yeah, yeah, if you'retalking maybe 60, 80, a hundred
miles, I don't.
I don't know what it'll be, butum yeah, ready or not, I come
(49:41):
at least georgia, and gene'sprobably really cool that's
right you won't have to sweattoo much they'll be shaded
I'll carry a pack yeah, not abig pack, but, um, yeah, I've
got a whole list of stuff theysent me that I have to have to
take.
So I'm really, I'm reallyexcited and you know, I think I
sent when I got accepted, I dida screenshot of the email and
sent it to some friends and, andthen Brad, was like
(50:04):
congratulations, I think.
So I'm excited for that, but um,I don't know how I got down
that rabbit hole, but regardless, um, you know, those are things
I'm trying to do, and and andmy leadership role is is to show
others that, um, you know, I'mgoing to try to push myself, you
know, to the to the best of myabilities.
(50:27):
And so, maddie, is thereanything in closing, you want to
add any uh words of inspirationout there?
Speaker 5 (50:34):
Yeah, everyone has influence, um, and so what you
do with it is really up to you.
Uh, you can be a good leader.
You can be a bad leader.
We have a ton ofrepresentations of bad leaders
all around us.
What you decide to do with thatreally is up to you.
And so I would say that God hasplaced inside of everybody a
(50:56):
capacity, and that capacity isthe way that we are fearfully
and wonderfully made and puttogether and then, over our life
, our humanity kind of buriesthat.
Our experiences bury that, our,our fears bury that, our
weaknesses bury that.
And, um, I you know, I thinkthe, the, the reality of the
(51:17):
struggle is man, how do I, howdo I be exactly who I was
created to be?
Because that's what the worldneeds.
The world needs who you weremade to be, and that is
leadership.
If you're who God made you to be, there will be people following
, and so don't be scared to stepinto that, to figure that out,
(51:39):
don't be scared of the strugglesDan's talking about, to work
through your humanity, to workthrough your weaknesses, um,
that's all part of the process.
But your world needs you, uh,and your world is better because
you're in your world and uh,your responsibility is to
continue to improve it.
And you know I mean.
(51:59):
The reality is, if we all, ifwe all live that way every day,
that idea of servant leadership,we do change the world.
And that's what leaders do.
They change the world.
The world's different becauseof leadership, and so it's a
high calling, the highest ofcallings, and so jump in.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
Great advice, Ben.
You got anything to add.
Speaker 4 (52:26):
No, I just feel.
So this is kind of on topic,kind of not right.
One of the big things I feellike with leadership is
confidence.
That's one of the big things Ifeel like in a leader.
You've got to be confident andyou've got to be strong in your
morals and so back, I don't know, I get old.
I feel like I'm still like 18,you know, but really I'm 37.
(52:48):
But this is back earlier in mylife.
My sister-in-law was engaged tothis guy and he had demons that
he was struggling and I was soyoung in my, in my faith and my
confidence.
I always battledself-confidence and it was
something where it's like youfeel something you know, talk
about man of God and and beingin your faith, right, and I just
(53:10):
like you know, I'm not notqualified, I'm not not the
person to tell this guy aboutGod.
Well, tragically he died andI'll never forget just sitting
in his funeral and I'm sittingthere like man.
I wish I would have saidsomething, you know, and it's
just goes back to kind of likewhere, where a leader comes from
right Confidence, so fastforward, like maybe six, seven
(53:31):
years later saw somebody onFacebook read to say something
and I reached out to him and Ididn't say anything that changed
my life or his life, you know,but we talked about God for a
minute and a little bit.
Tragically, one day he got hitby a semi truck on the side of
the road and he died.
And I'm just sitting there likejust thinking like at least I
(53:52):
said something that time, youknow.
At least I know where he'sgoing, you know, because the
time I did and I still strugglewith that and I say that and
just confidence You're alwaysbuilding, right, and those
little things like that itconstantly, you're constantly
building through life.
I feel like God puts you throughthings for certain reasons,
right?
I know I talk about my missiontrip a lot.
(54:12):
That was the time to justchange my life completely and,
um, you know, feeling dealingwith self-confidence issues and
self-esteem issues when I wasyounger, you know that was
originally why I tried to changemy weight and everything was
because I was so overweight andI felt just.
And then you go over to Haitiand you know I was just when I
(54:34):
first started working for Danhad jeans and a polo on at the
gym and everybody's like man, Ididn't even recognize you in
jeans and a polo.
So I always just wearsweatpants and t-shirt.
I really don't care what I looklike.
Well, that goes back to haiti,right?
Remember doing revivals at nightand these people going like I
can't go, like I'm not allowedgoing to church, I'm not allowed
doing being with god, becausewhat I wear and you know.
(54:56):
So that's like, if it's justsuch a battle that I constantly
deal with with, like selfself-esteem.
So, when I got back from Haiti,I'm like I'm not going to try
to dress to impress anyone, I'mnot going to try to lose weight
for other people, I'm just goingto try to build on myself,
right, build my self-confidence,build this stuff.
And when you're talking aboutleader and the man of God and
stuff like that, and just likethat's where your leadership
(55:16):
starts, right, cause who youknow, serving a people, who's
that based off of Jesus, right,the ultimate.
So that's where I just kind offelt like that was.
You know, confidence is whereleadership comes from, too, and
none of us are confident.
I feel like that's somethingthat everyone battles with is
confidence, you know.
But if you've somehow anchoryourself in faith, anchor
(55:38):
yourself in your morals, and youjust are confident in it, then
I feel like that creates abetter leader as well.
Speaker 3 (55:46):
I agree those are valuable words and I think, you
know, if anything this podcasthas taught me, is that a lot of
people are struggling, you know,and they're struggling in their
own difficulties, whatever, andSome may seem big to other
people and not big to some, butto that individual they're
(56:07):
difficulties that they're tryingto get through and people are
struggling.
I hope that anybody listeningto this podcast is not afraid to
talk to those people, to havethose conversations.
You don't have to give them,you know, all these these words
of wisdoms or these great quotesthat we're reading, it's, it's
(56:28):
a lot of times.
It's just about how you doingand listening, you know, and
just saying, hey man, I knowit's tough, you know tomorrow's
a new day, You're going to getthrough it.
I think that's important.
I think it's, it's somethingthat I've learned, you know,
(56:48):
just in the past year of ofdoing this podcast is, you know,
kind of taking a step back andlooking at at how other people
were raised, the challenges thatthey faced, the difficulties
that may be happening in theirlives or in their work, or
whatever it may be.
Is is just offering that ear tolisten, because a lot of people
are out there struggling and Ithink that's part of being a
leader.
And whether or not you're aleader in your business or on
your sports team, you can be aleader at your school.
(57:11):
If you're a kid and you knowsomeone's struggling, sit down
and talk to them, offer thatadvice, just to be there.
For, know, we all have a lot togive, um, and and it may be
different for what I can give,to what Maddie can give or what
Ben can give Um, but everybody'sgot something to give and uh,
and don't be afraid to do it.
(57:32):
So, um, maddie, thank you.
Speaker 5 (57:35):
Pleasure to be with you guys.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (57:37):
Appreciate you guys.
Leadership you guys are.
You guys are rock stars.
I look up to both of you.
Well, we appreciate youAppreciate you.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
For sure, people can find Matty
ledgerwoodhomerestorationcom Yep.
Get on Facebook, instagram,check out all those pictures.
Amazing work, very, verycreative, very unique in the
construction industry, whetheryou're looking for a home, a
home addition, a bathroomremodel, whatever it is, you
guys kind of do a little bit ofeverything, right.
Speaker 5 (58:05):
We do and I am.
I am one piece of that.
There's a huge team behind it,and I am they.
I have a lot of guys that areway better at this than I am,
and so I'm grateful for them.
I just get to steer the boat alittle bit, and that's
leadership, right.
Speaker 3 (58:20):
Yes, hey, everybody again.
Like share, subscribe, hit thatlittle bell notification on the
YouTube channel.
We appreciate your continuedsupport.
I just continue to love to havethose conversations with people
at basketball games or you knowout in the community that they
talk about a specific episode.
(58:41):
There's certain things thatpeople take from these podcasts.
Right, it may just be onecomment, it may be one quote, it
may be somebody's story, butevery episode I'll get something
where it's like man, thatreally hit me because I went
through this with my mom or thishappened, and so be sure to
share it with others.
As the Be Tempered movementcontinues to grow.
(59:01):
Share it with others as, as, uh, you know, the be tempered
movement continues to grow.
We're going to do our part touh continue to provide quality
guests and and amazing storiesand, uh, you know continue to
move this thing forward.
Speaker 4 (59:10):
One of the biggest ways is also to comment.
If you can just comment and putan at and then tag somebody in
it, those comments get into thealgorithm and then we get more
views and then more people cansee it.
But, like Dan said, every timethere's at least one or two,
that just yeah.
And it's always one or two youdon't expect, you know.
It's like well, I'm sure thisepisode will hit so and so yeah.
Then you get a text from theother, so and so that you didn't
think about, so it's prettycool, yeah, but thank you
(59:32):
everybody and go out and betempered hi, my name is ali
schmidt.
This is my dad, dan he ownskatrin.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
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(01:00:00):
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