BeTempered Episode 49 - Faith After Firefights: Retired Colonel George Glaze on Trauma and Transformation

When retired Army Colonel George Glaze rolls up his sleeves to help troubled youth through horse therapy or counsel police officers as a chaplain, he's drawing from a lifetime of hard-earned wisdom. In a powerful conversation with hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr, Colonel Glaze opens up about his journey—from leading troops through the streets of Baghdad to guiding his congregation at Beach Grove Church of the Brethren.

With raw honesty, Colonel Glaze recounts the emotional toll of delivering 23 casualty notifications to families of fallen soldiers. “A mom crying in Spanish is a mom crying,” he reflects—capturing the universal language of grief that knows no boundaries. His words connect deeply, whether or not you've worn a uniform.

What makes this episode stand out is Colonel Glaze’s ability to blend battlefield leadership with deep vulnerability. He shares the moment his own healing journey began: after losing his temper at a bus driver in front of his family, he realized he needed help. It’s a powerful gateway into a broader discussion about PTSD and the ongoing mental health challenges faced by veterans and first responders.

Listeners will also be moved by his tribute to his wife Valerie, who attended over 100 memorial services while raising their children alone during his deployments. Her quiet strength and resilience shine as a reminder of the emotional weight service families often carry behind the scenes.

From soldier to pastor, equine therapist to police chaplain, Colonel Glaze's story is a testament to the power of faith, service, and transformation. “In loving one another, you're loving God,” he says—a simple yet profound truth at the heart of his life’s work.

Have you ever wondered how true warriors carry their invisible scars? Join Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr for an unforgettable conversation with Colonel George Glaze, as he shares wisdom on processing trauma, finding purpose, and turning pain into healing for others.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Father, we thank you for today, we thank you for your
son and we thank you for theblessings that we have.
And may we not take it forgranted, father.
May we use this platform, thisdiscussion, this fellowship, to
bring honor and glory to you.
May we get out of the way ofthe message that's in our hearts
that again may lead more peopleto live Christ and to live life

(00:25):
, for it's in Jesus' name wepray.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Amen.
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, Dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.

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(00:55):
Catron's Glass the clear choice.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.

Speaker 5 (01:04):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
We're your hosts, dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
This is Be Tempered.
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast, episode number 49.
All right, episode number 49.
All right, he got it.
49.
Today, we've got an inspiringman here.
I'm going to read a littleintro about our guest.

(01:35):
Retired Army Colonel George AGlaze is a distinguished
military leader and communityfigure.
His notable military serviceincludes a focus on soldier
welfare.
In 2012, colonel Glazeemphasized the importance of
creating a supportive commandenvironment to address suicide
prevention within the Army.

(01:55):
Beyond his military career,colonel Glaze has been active in
his local community.
In 2020, he was introduced asthe new pastor at Beach Grove
Church of the Brethren, bringinghis leadership skills to serve
the congregation.
Colonel Glaze's dedication toboth his country and community
underscore his commitment toservice and leadership.

(02:17):
His multifaceted careerreflects a dedication to both
national service and localinvolvement, reflects a
dedication to both nationalservice and local involvement,
highlighting his diversecontributions to society.
Colonel Glaze spent decadesleading soldiers in the United
States Army, not only on thebattlefield, but in the fight
for mental health and soldierwelfare, emphasizing the
importance of leadership andpreventing tragedies like

(02:41):
suicide.
Colonel Glaze, it's a privilegeand honor to have you here
today.
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
It's my honor.
I appreciate being here.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Yeah, we had a couple .
We've got some common friends.
You got a neighbor that I seeat the Y every morning and I
told you when we met last weekthat two different instances
both of them came up to me notknowing that the other did and
your name was brought up thatyou needed to come and tell your

(03:11):
story on the podcast.
So I'm grateful for both ofthose men and I'm grateful for
you having the courage to comein and tell your story.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
I appreciate it, and those two people are suspect.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
you know, that's the advice we got from them.
That's why we won't mentiontheir names.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
I am humbled.
That introduction is veryhumbling.
Um, I want to put up front thatI want to get out of the way.
Uh, I know you asked me to tellmy story and how it could help
people.
I know that, Um, but in tellingmy story, it, it, it a lot of.
It's crazy.
I don't believe half of it.
Um, there's a lot ofexperiences that I was able to

(03:46):
have and I'm grateful andblessed for it, but when you
list them all together, uh, itcan go and inflate my ego.
I have a healthy, uh ego fromhaving the room called to
attention, to whole building youknow I had a parking spot as a
Colonel all these things thatcan make your ego large.
And so I have a really bigchain that ties down that tiger

(04:09):
in my head and we don't want tofeed him.
We don't want to feed him, orhe gets hungry.
But I hope that this can benefitothers is what we're doing.

Speaker 4 (04:18):
Well, and you say that, but I also, as people,
will hear your story.
We will come to find out thatyou are a servant leader, you're
someone who leads by example.
You're someone who deflects.
You know all the recognitionthat you do deserve, and so by
hearing this, people will cometo recognize that.
So, yeah, so what we want to dois how we start every, every

(04:43):
episode is we want to know yourstory.
We want to start from thebeginning.
We want to hear about childhood.
We want to hear about those,those people that had big
impacts on your life and yourfamily and your friends and all
those good things.
So your thing.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Um, I have notes, yeah, um, it's a good childhood.
I had two older brothers.
Uh, we had our fair share.
I was the baby, that means I'mright all the time, that also
means I'm spoiled but we had ourfair share of brotherly love
and fights and all that.
But it was a good childhood.
I was in the Boy Scouts earlybecause my dad was a Boy Scout

(05:16):
and my other two brothers wereBoy Scouts.
He was Eagle Scout and allthree of us are Eagle Scout and
that even was interesting thatmy son, josh, he's Eagle Scout
too.
So that's in there.
A lot of skills come from that.
I'm in the middle of rangerschool and we're canoeing and I
realized the water is about 59degrees, it's about 32.

(05:39):
This is in Florida in thewinter, and the guy in front of
me is not feathering his paddle.
He does not know that concept.
He is splashing and it'sgetting on my leg and we got
hypothermia.
That could be, you know,minutes away.
So I'm trying to instruct himto do the J stroke.
A silly little thing like thatcomes all the way back from when

(05:59):
I was a boy scout and I got tocanoe and mirror badge.
That's a little aside.
I went.
Uh, I grew up in enon, which isa little town and backwards it
spells none, it has one trafficlight.
But it was a great place togrow up with little league and
the high schools and middleschools and the elementary
schools, everybody.
It was a community.
So that was cool for us.

(06:20):
Um, this is going to beinteresting with the Boy Scout
thing.
When I was young Boy Scout Ilooked up the ranks.
This is corny, okay, butthere's tenderfoot, there's

(06:41):
first class, there's secondclass, first class, star, life
and eagle.
There's six Early on.
I put together those six ranksis the same thing as being a
second lieutenant, a firstlieutenant, a captain, a major
lieutenant, colonel and colonel,which is 06.
The eagle is on the top.
I know that sounds corny, butin my little mind that back then
even that's kind of where I waswanting to go I didn't know how
I'd get there, I didn didn'tknow if I could, but that that

(07:03):
Eagle Scout and then uh, therank I was able to uh get uh
meant something.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
So you knew from an early age that you wanted to be
in the military.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
I initially was Navy because my dad was Navy.
Um, I stayed up every year, uh,had to get extra sleep to
prepare for it.
My mom thought you could bankit, but you remember when Tora,
Tora, Tora and Midway would onlycome on once a year there's no
DVD, there's no VCR and so Iwould stay up with my dad and
watch those and those were thebest ones going.
So I was Navy until theapplications came back and had

(07:38):
said the army said we'll takeyou as you are, and the military
academy, and then the NavalAcademy, said we'll take you
with a waiver because of youreyes.
And so I went with the folksthat like me as I am so you were
ready to go.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
I was ready to go, so you rolled into the army yes, I
went to.

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Uh well, so I'm at west point.
I get in there somehow.
I'll tell you how I I get ahandout flyers.
My mom arranged it.
I get a handout flyers for ayoung congressman from
springfield just coming upthrough the ranks and it ends up
being Mike DeWine and I thinkhe had something to do with me
being able to get into WestPoint.
West Point was amazing, tough,and so here's a funny aside that

(08:19):
I was doing fine in high school.
I wasn't a 4.0, but I was upthere advanced calculus and
stuff like that.
I ran four years cross-countryand track.
The track was really onlykeeping me in shape for
cross-country, the same coach,but I was all that and a bag of
chips.
I mean, I was running a 59quarter.
I was running a 201 half mile.

(08:40):
I was running a 501 mile.
I was running a 1028 two and ahalf mile.
I was running a 501 mile.
I was running a 1028 to an appmile.
I was all that.
And then I go to West Point andthen I go down to try to get out
of the hazing that is normallygoing on with the plebes.
I want to go down and be a corescore, a core squad athlete.
I want to be on one of theteams and then it lets me eat
like a human or normal and besocializing a lot more than I am

(09:04):
getting when I'm getting hazedin the mess hall with all the
other freshmen.
Okay, well, I go down to the,to the track house.
I stand in front of it, hadattention to the track coach,
civilian.
He's what do you want, glaze?
And I said, well, sure, I, I'dlike to help the track team.
And he's okay, what do you do,sir?
I run a 59 quarter.
Okay, what else A 501 mile?
What else A 201 half mile, a1028, two and a half mile.

(09:29):
And he laughed he goes Glaze.
I got girls running that inpractice right now.
Go back up the hill and I justscooted.
It was humbling, it wasamazingly humming, yeah.

Speaker 4 (09:40):
So talk about so what's next for you while you're
in West Point?
Now you're.
Now you're back in the messhall.
Right Now you're.
You're one of those plebs youtalked about.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
And it is a tough grind.
If I got those good grades youknow the close to 4.0 or 3.9, I
mean I'm hanging in with a 2.65.
It's tough.
It was tough to physically.
I was in it, I was sold out, ifyou will.
There was nothing else going onin the world but me trying to
go through those four years.
I kind of also got a littlephilosophy.

(10:11):
They don't shoot the lead duckand they don't shoot the rear
duck.
They shoot the duck in themiddle usually, and so I'll stay
.
No, it's the other way around.
They usually shoot the firstduck or the last duck and I'm in
the middle at 265.
so I'm good, um, but I was ableto get infantry out of that uh
graduated and then was uh atranger school okay, so talk

(10:31):
about ranger school rangerschool is a whole nother start
overseas because, again, I waswest point grad and had to stick
her in my car and a ring on myfinger and ranger school
immediately humbles you.
Um, you take the ring off,you're going to 62 days of
intense training where they tryto um, get you to be hungry, wet
and cold and those three thingsin my life I will try to avoid

(10:54):
to have those three things allat once.
I can be cold and wet, but I'llbe nibbling on something.
I always try never to havethose three together because
psychologically, physiologically, you are not making as good of
decisions as you could.
A couple, for instance, is again, you report in at a ranger
school and there's a physicaltest, a PT test, and you're

(11:16):
doing push-ups and sit-ups andjust to mess with you, get in
that head of yours early.
You come up to do your push-ups.
There's a line of 50 guys andyou come up to do your push-ups
and you'll get one, two, threethis is the ri, the ranger
instructor, counting them.
Three, four, four, four, four,get up, go back to the end of

(11:36):
the line and you could do thatfive or six times, I mean.
And that's just the sit-up orthe push-up and then you've got
the run.
So it's a constant messing ofyour mind and you end up having
a twisted sense of humor whereyou've kind of got to laugh.
You've got to laugh it off.
If you take it serious it couldbreak you.
So that came on at an early age.

Speaker 4 (11:56):
So not only physical, I mean major physical
challenges, but the mentalprobably tougher than the
physical.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
right yes, Again, the cold, wet, hungry hits after
that and the funny thing is youknow all that in a bag of chips
coming out of West Point.
Okay, you're a roster number.
I was.
I was R 43 or something, so itwasn't colonel or captain or
major or Lieutenant, it was kididiot.
I bet you're a kid idiot.
And he'd come over and call youby your roster number and you

(12:21):
weren't wearing your rank ornothing and again you outrank
the guy in the in the army worldbut not in ranger school, and
you go and do whatever they say.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:31):
Did you ever feel like quitting?

Speaker 1 (12:33):
I got married.
I went on a winter break so Igraduated, or I was in the
desert phase in Utah on the 15thof December, on the 19th of
December of December, beingmarried by Ellis Guthrie in the
Eaton Church of the Brethren,and then I go back for the
Florida phase, the final phase,into January.
And so when I got down thereafter Christmas break and I look

(12:57):
at my ring, I have a wife, Ihave a lovely life to go, there
was chance, there wasopportunities, there were things
that you would think about, butI just couldn't.
Uh that half moon shaped patch,ranger, gold and black, I
couldn't leave without it yeah,so you were determined you
weren't stopping, you were goingto continue on.

Speaker 4 (13:16):
Yeah, it was in there , had to, so talk about
finishing up ranger schoolfinishing it up, there's another
funny story.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
My dad and Valerie come down for the graduation and
my dad is out there to pin onmy tab.
He pins on my tab and he bumpsinto the guy that's putting his
tab on his son in front of mewho's a Marine Lieutenant.
They go to Ranger school andit's G Gordon Liddy.
And in G Gordon Liddy's tenuremy dad bumps into him and
there's two guys, one on eitherside of G Gordon Liddy, and

(13:44):
they're obviously have thingsunder their jackets that make
them bulky.
And I'm like dad, don't bump GGordon Liddy, please don't do it
again.
Graduating ranger school, then Igo to my first assignment at
Fort Campbell, kentucky.
Um, that was an adventure.
Uh, the wife moved along rightthere with me, valerie.
Uh, we had gotten married againon that ranger break.
Um, me, valerie, we had gottenmarried again on that ranger

(14:07):
break.
But then we go to the fieldimmediately at the 101st for
eight weeks.
So Valerie's in an apartmentsaying what just happened?
You fast forward a couple ofyears.
I'm going to Desert Shield,desert Storm.
Valerie's six months pregnant.
I'm getting on the aircraft togo to Iraq and my XO, the major
above me, said turned around onthe aircraft said you're not

(14:27):
coming back for that bird.
You know that I'm like Roger,that sir.
So again the hardships.
We're over there.
Six months we deployed afterthe Ohio National Guard here.
My brother-in-law's in thatOhio National Guard was.
He deployed first, and then Ideployed active duty and then I
come back active duty and thenI'm there in the in the Preble

(14:49):
County Fairgrounds when theyreturn that summer.
And so it does tell you thehard work that the National
Guard does.
You can't, you can't take thatfrom them.
They go the first in, last out.

Speaker 4 (14:59):
So how was that on your?

Speaker 1 (15:00):
wife Tough because she came home and she had Josh
at Wright Patterson Air Forcebase because she stayed with her
mom and dad, uh, in Eaton.
Um and I came home three monthslater and and held Josh for the
first time when I was, when Igot home.
Um, that was a tough time, um,but we got through it.

(15:21):
That.
That that's an early indicator,which I'll get into later about
Valerie, how special she is.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
Yeah, so.
So keep going with that.
So you, you come back.
What's, what's next on thehorizon?

Speaker 1 (15:31):
So we were at 18 divisions at that time and we
went down to 10.
A third of the army is let goand if you had the combat patch,
you're obviously looked on alittle bit better than those
that didn't.
So it was a tough time in thearmy.
Uh, they were letting peopleout without fulfilling their
commitment, like from west pointor all that.
But um, obviously, um, we'resolid and so we just kept moving

(15:54):
along.
Our next assignment was at fortriley, the big red one.
Uh, fort riley, kansas, and Iwas able to have a couple
company commands there, which isusually only have one.
But I was fortunate, and I wasalso interestingly able to
deploy to Cuba and be a companycommander down there over the
Haitians that were getting inthe water and swimming towards

(16:18):
the United States, and becausethe president at the time I
believe Bill Clinton, coming in,had said we'll accept you if
you come to the Floridashoreline.
And they were getting in thewater, trying to swim and the
Navy was picking them up andputting them in Cuba, not
knowing what to do with them.
And then we find out there's115 of them that are HIV
infected and that's a wholenother game.
That was back.

(16:38):
Magic Hadn't even come out yetwith it.
It was just you could look atyou and get hiv.
It was really misunderstood andI had a camp, uh, to house
those hiv infected haitians uh,and so I'm trying to provide for
them for their food.
They like plantains, all thesethings that were a different
cuisine for them, but that wasan interesting 93 days um down

(17:02):
in cuba yeah and then so FortRiley was.
It was good again set me up withthe jobs that you need to have
to continue to promote.
Then I was able to go to FortPolk, louisiana.
I was an observer controllerwhich hangs out a unit.
The units come into FortCampbell to train and we cadre
fall in on them and help coachthem through train ups and then

(17:23):
they can go to war.
I it's, it's what we've donefor the last 20-25 years.
You either go to the nationaltraining center at fort irwin
for tank and bradley or you goto the light infantry down at
fort polk, and that was verygood, because now I'm coaching,
uh, and learning at the sametime.
I was able to get a live firejob.
That was cool.
We picked on the guys thatdidn't have live fire.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
There they play laser tag so explain live fire for
those that don't know.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
So laser tag is you shoot and a blank goes off and
it shoots a laser out and itkills a guy because his buzzers
go off, gotcha, and that's kindof play live fire.
Though we actually have thelive fire ammo, we have ranges,
we we set up live fires wherethe individuals practice during
the day and we coach them, andthen it goes to nighttime and we
we hit either the wood line orwe can.
We have a, a mount site, amilitary operations on urban

(18:14):
terrain site, a little city.
Yeah.
It was named Shugart Gordon forthe two warrant officers that
were in the Blackhawk downrescue.
So Shugart Gordon was thevillage and that was a great job
to have to oversee that.
The complexities of the urbanenvironment and military
operations, oh yeah, and thatwould stead me in future
military operations we'll talkabout.

Speaker 4 (18:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's good.
So then, what's next from there?

Speaker 1 (18:38):
I go to Leavenworth Fort Leavenworth, not the prison
.
I go for the school.
That's good.
There's the Command and GeneralStaff college where you learn
how to be a major.
And then I was able to, againselected for a pretty cool
school called Sam's school foradvanced military studies.
The nickname is Jedi warrior.
They pull about 52 kids out ayear and let them go to this

(19:00):
intensive training on not whatto think but how to think.
Go to this intensive trainingon not what to think but how to
think, and it was really cool.
And then when you graduate yougo to a division and two of you
usually go and you're theplanner behind the two-star
general at the commandinggeneral level, and that was cool
.
I'm always planning andtemplating, and trying to
control chaos is what you do incombat, and so that gave me a

(19:23):
whole nother skill set in doingthat.
It was pretty cool, and oh, bythe way, I got a couple of
masters out of that.

Speaker 4 (19:28):
So yeah, so you just continue to reeducate yourself.
You're moving up the ranks.
Yeah.
And then what's next?

Speaker 1 (19:36):
This is blessed.
I mean, this is a blessing, allof this is a blessing.
But you saw this as a young kid, okay, but not this detail.
But yeah, as it came out.
But you're right, yeah, so thenwe're from leavenworth, snow
kansas, and we go to hawaii.
And the funny story there is wehave, uh, snowboards for the
kids from from leavenworth.
We get to hawaii and they'reunloading our household goods

(19:59):
and the hawaiians there go, hey,bruh, what's this?
And they hold up the, thesnowboard, and they're like,
yeah, that's snowboard.
And they're like you're notgoing to need that here.
So within a couple years we getboogie boards which are in the
surf.
And then we next assignment goto germany.
And when we get to germany, uh,the germans are holding up
these boogie boards and they'regoing vases das?
And they're like what is that?

Speaker 5 (20:20):
I'm like, yeah, that's for the surf and they're
like you're not.
What is that?

Speaker 1 (20:21):
I'm like, yeah, that's for the surf, and they're
like you're not going to needthat.
Snow shovels and all that weregone too.
It's kind of funny.
But Hawaii was amazing.
Four years Blessed again to getthere.
Kids loved it, family loved it,made great friends.
But then I deployed for 14months to Iraq in 04 to 05.

(20:43):
14 months, so 14 months out ofthe uh 48 months of Hawaii.
I'm I'm down range and by thetime I get back, ready to get my
Hawaii back on um we're, she'salready packed the household
goods Valerie has and is sendingthem to Germany, because that's
the orders that came down.
Uh, so I get a couple of monthson the beach, maybe don't even
get a sunburn right.

(21:05):
But over in Iraq I really got toknow the Kurds.
The Kurds are in the northeastof Iraq, kurdistan.
They really don't considerthemselves part of Iraq.
They're between Iran and Iraqand the Kurds are just great
people.
They want to be like us.
They have an economy like us.
They're just great folks.
And that was our entry pointwhen we started the Iraq war is

(21:28):
they went through Kurdistan andthe Kurds made the way for us to
be able to get in there.
So I was able to work with them, but obviously the Arabs in the
area were not content with usworking with them, so I was able
to be an operations officer.
There, had a great mentor,colonel Miles, milo Miles.
I'm going to mention a coupleguys specifically because

(21:49):
they're the mentors that youremember.
I could even go into a littlebit of the lessons learned, or
vignette here, I determinedearly on, watching this guy for
sure, but others.
There's a couple differentleadership styles in the Army.
There's compliance and thenthere is inspirational.
And in the compliance mode youare going to do that and I'm

(22:13):
going to stand here and watchyou do it.
And I'm going to use language,I'm going to use energy, anger,
to make you do that.
I will get you to do that.
And the crazy thing is I'm notblaming the Army for any ptsd or
anything like that, but that'sthe fuel that gets it to move
and I get recognized for thatand then I get promoted.
So anger is a fuel that is, asyou know.

(22:36):
They won't brief it, they won'tput it in a fuel manual, but
that gets results.
And I will get that, uh, byusing anger.
But the compliance is theleader that has to stand over
you to get it done.
Inspirational, which is what youtry to be, you try to be able
to give an intent or the visionand then, once they've been

(22:56):
around you for a while, you know, first six months you can't do
this in battalion command, butafter a year and certainly you
know half a year in combat theystart to see.
I think that's what he wants.
I know what he wants actuallyand they start moving out under
that and then it may not beexactly what you wanted, but you
don't dare take away thatinitiative that they just showed
.
You encourage it, you resourceit and, uh, maybe give them a

(23:19):
little bit.
Uh, uh, corrected vision, butagain, not critical.
Uh, you want to encourage itwhen they use their initiative.
And so that's the compliance.
I believe I had leaders that didthat.
I believe I was a complianceleader.
And then we have theinspirational.
And if you ask me as a pastoror as a Christian, then Jesus
Christ was inspirational.

(23:39):
He's not standing or be to dothis.
He doesn't want a robot, it is.
He is inspiring you from yourheart by showing you the vision,
by showing you what this shouldlook like.

Speaker 4 (23:48):
Yeah, that's all great.
The inspirational leadership, Ithink, is what we all strived
for right Strive for that typeof leadership.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
So that was Hawaii, and then I get to Germany.
Now I'm a battalion commander.
It's at Big Red 1 again.
See, fort Riley had the big redone and then it moved to
Germany and now I catch back upwith my unit.
I was only in three units, ifyou think about it, and all
three.
I went to combat with the 101st,the 25th ID, out of Hawaii, and
then the big red one and I'mout of Schweinfurt, germany.

(24:20):
806 soldiers.
We train up and we deploy andwe're in baghdad, uh, with tanks
and bradley's.
So 101st is light infantry, the25th is light infantry, there's
not tanks and brads.
And then now I have tanks andbrads and uh and 806 soldiers,
and that was 15 months duringthe rotation, 12 months they

(24:43):
come down halfway through.
Um, general petraeus and othershad, you know, made a decision
that we need to get out off themain bases and be lily pads.
It's a technique and we need tohelp the, the local populace,
and so we did that.
But they also extended usanother three months.
So imagine that, that you havegot your soldiers for for 12

(25:03):
months in the headspace.
Right, that's what they'rethinking.
Now you've got to tell themokay, you're going to stay an
extra three months and rememberthey have all the ammo they'd
ever want.

Speaker 5 (25:13):
So I'm joking.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
But that was a tough one and 15 months is a long time
to be deployed.
And then we came back.
I was in charge of an area itwas the southeastern part of
Baghdad, if you will Um 65,000,I mean it was pretty, pretty big
chunk, um yeah.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Can you talk about that a little bit and what that
was like being in Baghdad andsome of those challenges you
faced?

Speaker 1 (25:42):
See, it's an urban environment too.
So we go back to that.
What I learned at Fort Polk,it's all this is God's hand in
everything, see, and I know thatnow I perhaps didn't fully
recognize it at the time it wasgoing.
I had a lot of conversationswith God when I was downrange,
obviously, and he had some withme, but really didn't come home
to put it all together, uh,until I retired.

(26:05):
Um, it was tough times, uh, 23casualties, um, and around 86
wounded at 806.
And then, uh, that's a toughone.
I'll go into my wife on thisone too, because it really uh,
it really showcases her as hercharacter.

(26:26):
And so we would have a casualtyin Iraq and the platoon or the
company would stand down, wewould bring them back on the
base, we would cover them downwith leaders and chaplains and a
psychologist could show up andthey'd be not doing any combat
operations for 24 to 48 hours.
You would have the individualsthat were killed.

(26:48):
They would then be taken to thecombat surgical hospital there
in Baghdad, which wasinterestingly manned by forks
from folks from right pat, whichwas pretty cool.
Okay, the 88th cache.
We would have those flown outand they're on their way back to
germany, probably, and thenback to the states, but we would

(27:09):
have that casualty and then,within about four or five days,
we would have a memorial servicethere downrange.
An amazing grace would beplayed, and it happened to be
played with bagpipes, because wehad a surgeon there on our base
that was proficient withbagpipes and amazing grace, and
so, to be quite honest, thatthat goes to a place for me when

(27:32):
I hear the bagpipes amazinggrace.
But anyway, we have thatsoldier be taken out.
We would do a memorial downrange and then we would get
those soldiers back out.
They, they had to get back out.
I don't want to say they haveto get back on the bike or they
have to ride the horse, but theyneed to get back out.
And they need to get back outand do justice.

(27:53):
Now, that's a fine line,because they may want to get
revenge.
They're angry, they saw theirbuddy in pieces.
It's just horrific.
But they need to go out withthe leadership and look, we
don't do that.
We're americans, we don't playthat way.
We will get them, we willprosecute them, but we, we don't
do what they do, and so thatwas something, though, that we

(28:15):
felt we were going out and doingsomething.
Now go back to germany.
My wife's in germany witharound 200 spouses.
There's probably 110 spousesthat are over in the States that
chose not to deploy with theirhusband, but there's 200 up
there in Germany.
I've already called after theincident one or two days the

(28:38):
mother or the new widow would becontacted by a chaplain or
someone in the chain of command.
I would then phone call fromthere from Iraq on a phone that
I had specially given to me forthis, and it would call anywhere
and I would talk the momthrough or the widow through how

(29:01):
their loved one passed.
He died with soldiers all around, with friends all around.
I would not be graphic, ofcourse, but let them know that
they were doing their job, doingtheir mission, and they were
with loved ones and, in general,went quickly.
The lethality of the weapons wehave these days does that, but

(29:24):
I would be able to provide that.
I also want to say that 13 outof the 23 were Hispanic, and so
I don't play nice with theHispanic disparaging, I don't.
Anyway, I would have to have atranslator.
I had an Iraqi translator whenI was out on the block, but I'd
have to have a Hispanicgentleman.

(29:45):
One of my soldiers was fromCuba and we would call and I
would start talking and he wouldtranslate and then the mom
would cry out loud and that alsoprobably stay with me forever.
And a mom crying in Spanish isa mom crying.
There's no, it's universal.
So that was part of what I,what we had to deal with, um.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
I stopped you for a second.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
How do you process all of that?
Because that's a heavy burdenas a leader to have to make
those calls and to hear thosescreams and cries after you
already, probably in a lot ofcases, knew the young person who
lost their lives.
How does that affect you?

(30:33):
Hmm?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Usually you don't handle it well, um, had to be
stoic, had to be on the I can'tbe off for the unit, for the
soldiers, for the mission, uh,and so didn't handle it.
Then, when I got back retired,at the dayton va I, I am being
talked with uh to a doctor andwe're going through some of that

(30:58):
, and he it's kind of funny, butit's not, it's uh, it is he
said, george, you you took thoseevents and you put them in a
crate and you put them in awarehouse, okay, and you have a
warehouse with 23 and probablythe 82 wounded and you have a
lot in there and that warehouseis full and, george, we need to

(31:18):
pull each one of them out andprocess better and then put them
back in, if that's what we needto do.
But need to do that.
And I, without even batting aneye or thinking, I said let's
just build another warehouse,and it's my humor disarming.
But it's a challenge.
You deal with it slowly.
You deal with it with all thesupport groups and the support

(31:40):
folks I have in my life and I'llbe able to talk to those as
well.
Um, but it's, it's an ongoingprocess obviously.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
For sure, and I, you know, for those who are
listening, if you're, if you'rewatching, and I know, ben and I
can see, I mean, we can see itin your face, we can hear it in
your voice, um, because you care, right, and um, that's a,
that's a, um, I mean it.
It almost makes me emotionaljust hearing you, hearing you

(32:08):
talk about this, because I tryto put myself in other people's
position and as a leader, as abusiness owner, um, you know,
just having difficultconversations is one thing, but
when you got to call someone andtell them, hey, johnny's no
longer here, but he, he servedhis country well but you see, I
went to the train ups or I couldeven had him in front of me

(32:30):
holding court, do an article 15and take money from him.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
I could have, or I could have put a ward on him or
gave him a coin that week orthere.
There, yeah you, you know him,you have to, and I in a but
direct, no direct way, andsometimes indirect.
They were doing it on my orders.
They worked for other bosses,company commanders and platoon
leaders, but no, theresponsibility is on me.
I took them down there to Iraqfrom Germany, and so I feel that

(32:57):
I think you're supposed to yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
It would be hard not to yeah.
So 15, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Oh yeah, I got to tell you about not to yeah, so
15, go ahead.
Oh yeah, I got to tell youabout my wife yeah.
So they're back in Germany andthey're waiting on a phone call,
waiting on a phone call thatone of the soldiers passed and I
tell, I call my wife and thenshe now, within about five days
they'll have a memorial backthere and she now will be with
that widow back there and shenow will be with that widow and

(33:29):
she will be sitting behind thatwidow at the chapel with two
kids, one on either side maybecrying their eyes out, and
there's boots and the dog tagsin the rifle up front and
they're doing a memorial by thegreat folks we had in our rear
detachment back there in germany.
But she is helping that newwidow through that, that their
life is gone, it's just uprooted.
The kids are out of school,they're going back to a school

(33:50):
somewhere in the United StatesDon't know the new widow
processing and what is she goingto do for housing, all of this
stuff.
Now the Army is really goodabout taking care of that.
We really did a good job.
When they would come backThey'd always have a casualty
assistance officer and all thesethings.
There were systems, but thesystem for my wife, I just say

(34:11):
if you watch the movie we WereSoldiers Once and Young and how
they process.
It's not as elementary as that,but it is close where they have
to deal with that.
I would ask you what schoolingmy wife had in dealing with that
.
Okay, she had just rawcharacter.
And then what help does shecome?

(34:33):
I have a VA, I have medications, I have doctors that can help
me, and how does she come?
I have a VA, I have medications, I have doctors that can help
me, and how does she processthat with 23 casualties?
And of the 108 casualties in thebrigade, each battalion
commander's wife went to thememorials of their sister
battalions and so she's gone tomore than 108 memorial services

(34:57):
in a 15-month period.
So hats off to a wife thatcould do that.
She also raised the kids whileI'm downrange.
In fact, josh got his eaglespecifically because my wife and
the wives stepped in the BoyScout troop and went camping
with them and did all thosethings to make sure they're
merit badges.
She also knows all my warts,she knows all my faults, she's

(35:20):
seen me angry, she's seen all ofthe stuff that comes back and
she has chosen to stay with me.
And it's a character, it's justinherent in her a goodness and I
saw it today before leaving.
She's talking to the dog,gracie, as she comes in from
being outside and just being assweet.

(35:40):
The voice changes and just hi,gracie, and making Gracie feel
special and that dog's tail isgoing crazy.
She makes who she's withspecial feel special and equal.
Now, that's funny to play onbecause I'm probably a little
more ornery, but when we hadpigs on the farm, she's wanting
it to be equal.
So when she sees the alpha pigpicking on the other pigs, she's

(36:03):
taking a stick and hitting onthat alpha pig, saying you be
fair and uh.
But that's just the sweetnessin her Uh, and I couldn't have
done.
I could not do any of itwithout Valerie.

Speaker 4 (36:13):
Yeah, an amazing relationship sounds like and a
very pivotal person in your life, as as every wife should we be.
But, like you said, I thinkthat's a that's an important
point to make, because it's notsomething you know.
I thought about, um, you know,dealing with what you dealt with
, but then on the backside,having that support, an amazing
woman to be able to, to getthrough that unsung hero.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
I mean, when you think about it, you know you
went up through this trainingand they teach you how to you go
through all these differentdrills and scenarios to get you
prepared for it.
I never knew that about.
Like the wives and stuff I youknow they're not prepared.
I mean right, training oranything, and then they go deal
with over and over and overseeing what could possibly

(36:57):
happen to their husband.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
And probably having the fear of what if they get the
call about you.
Right, Right.
So just constant fear.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
The widows have a death day, they have a wedding
day, they have all these thingsevery year.
So they have a smell of acookie.
He liked peanut butter cookies,and so we do remember.
We need to remember the spousesof our servicemen and women as
well, as we'll talk about lawenforcement and first responders

(37:28):
.
Okay, that's pretty deep.
We'll go to the Pentagon, sofrom Germany yeah.
That phone rings that I onlysend out casualty notifications.
My phone rings in the middle,out in the field.
I'm out in Baghdad and I'm like, okay, who's calling me?
And it's the XO, a colonel tothe vice chief of staff.

(37:53):
I didn't get any permissionsfor names on those folks.

Speaker 4 (37:56):
Nobody listens to this.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
Phone rings for the vice chief of staff says, hey,
colonel Glaze.
I said yes, sir, you would youconsider being a legislative
assistant for the vice chief ofstaff of the army?
I'm like, okay, I don't knowwhat that is, I'm in combat
right now with living a dreamand but yes, sir, I certainly,
obviously wouldn't refuse it,but I need to get back to you.

(38:21):
And in two weeks my boss therein Baghdad called me who do you
know in the Pentagon?
I'm like I don't know anybodyin the Pentagon.
And I'm getting assigned to bethe vice chief of staff's
legislative assistant, withoutpolitical science as a degree or
any of that.
I'm a mechanical engineer but Iwas chosen, I believe, probably

(38:42):
for combat experience rangertab life experience fresh, and
he was a tanker.
So he's also a combat vetseveral times over.
But I think he wanted that.
He wanted the raw honesty.
When we're down range, I'mlooking at you and I tell you
some, it's true.
And and he surrounded himselfwith folks like that, uh, that

(39:05):
would tell him the unvarnishedtruth.
Now I will tell you that wewent to a private uh dinner
around Christmas time at thatgentleman's house and his wife
said some very important stuff.
That do you know.
I thank you for giving yourboss the unvarnished truth,

(39:27):
because two doors down right nowis Stan McChrystal packing out
his house because he had folksthat didn't tell him the
unvarnished truth.
You are invaluable.
You need to continue to tellthe general the truth and we did
that as best we can and thatwould get us in trouble

(39:49):
sometimes with other generals,but they weren't four stars,
they were three or two or one,but they still got a big bite
and you would tell them thingsthat he needed to hear, not what
he wanted to hear.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
That's what I was going to say.
You know, sounds like a veryimpressive leader because he he
had probably seen plenty ofpolitics people, you know, just
telling him what he wanted tohear and he recognized.
For this to be done right, Ineed real people that can tell
me real things.
He was another inspirational.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
he's one of the three that I count as inspirational
and could.
All he had to do was give me alook.
He didn't have to yell althoughhe was italian so he could but
he just had to give me a look ofdisappointment and I'd be
crushed and I would moveeverything.
I'd move hell and high waternot to have that happen again
and get ahead of him.
And that's that was our job.

(40:40):
So yeah, it was great.
I learned a lot.
As he was retiring, he said,george, I want you to go over
and be in charge of the suicideprevention office for the army.
And I'm like, I looked right athim I go no, and he's the vice.
So he's in charge of all thecolonels in the army.
He tells them all where to go.

(41:00):
He's telling me there, right,and I was funny by saying no.
He smiled a little and I said,roger, that sir.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
He let me get away with it.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
That's the kind of guy he was.
He was just a great guy and Iwent over there with his mantra
of making sure people know thetruth.
He had a special knack hewanted to know everything about
traumatic brain injury andsuicide and so he wanted uh,
himself, his representative overthere, to to make sure because

(41:31):
it was over in the g1, thepersonnel side of the army, and
they, uh, they may not have hisflavor, and so he was retiring
and he put me over there as astay behind to make sure the
rear on the personnel side ofthe Army and they may not have
his flavor, and so he wasretiring and he put me over
there as a stay-behind to makesure the rear guard, if you will
that his vision could be stillimplemented.
And I tried to do that.
In doing so I was briefing the9 to 17 suicides a day that we

(41:54):
were having out of active dutyto the SEC Army, to the chief
and to the vice and to thesergeant major of the Army.
It was a lot for a couple yearsand we could probably we'll get
in.
Yeah, we'll jump to that page.
I hope we get to come back.
We'll jump to that page.
I hope we get a comeback Inthat I am seeing the damage and

(42:25):
the damage of suicide and PTSDand TBI, traumatic brain injury.
They all lead to a negativeresult a permanent solution for
a temporary problem.
If you will, I go, I'm out atdinner.
This is HIPAA protected, butI'm telling everybody.
I go out to dinner with myfamily and we're in downtown DC
and a bus is in the way metrobus parked right there in the

(42:45):
middle of the road and ain'tnobody able to go around.
And I'm the third car back andI sit there for five minutes.
I'm not honking, I'm not fromNew Jersey, but obviously I'm
getting elevatedking.
I'm not from New Jersey, butobviously I'm getting elevated.
Uh, and I get out of the car andI go walking by, uh, the second
car and the first car, andthey're looking at me, um, and I

(43:06):
go up to the bus driver, uh andI, I let him have it.
Uh, I am.
I am barking like I'm inBaghdad.
Right there, I'm a battalioncommander.
There's a problem and I'm goingto fix it and thank goodness
that that gentleman was notarmed or that he did not.
He returned in kind but he didnot elevate, which is thankful

(43:26):
for everybody involved.
We went back and forth to a bussupervisor who was there and
they ended up moving the bus,but I had presented my way in a
way, unlike my kids and my wife.
So I'm walking back and thefirst car is giving me the look,
the second car is giving me thelook and I get back in the car

(43:48):
and the worst thing the mostcatastrophic, if you will, the
one that got me to go get helpwas my wife's look.
And then I look back and my twokids are just looking at me
like what.
And so I went that next weekdown to Fort Belvoir and I see a
doc, I see a couple of docs.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Was that the first time anything like that had
happened?

Speaker 1 (44:12):
No, there was, I'm sure, a lot of subtleties, a lot
of probably not as out in theopen like that, but I'm sure the
wife and friends and coworkershad seen parts of that.
But that's where it came out.
I go down and I see a doc andagain, I'm not picking on a
system, I'm just explaining myexperiences.
But I see a doc who is acivilian and not like me, and so

(44:38):
throw prescriptions at me,would say, but they're doing
their best, they're seeing somany right and they're trying it
, but it is meds here, medsthere, meds there, and I'm
loaded up with meds and thencontinue on working for the vice
.
Of course it's all good.
I don't let him know, becausethe stigma and all that, I'm
still playing at that gameprobably.

(44:59):
But um, I then, within a coupleweeks, I'm seeing a
psychologist, uh, at fortbelvoir, and this is, he's a
navy guy, but anyway, a littlebetter than a psychiatrist.
Um, I'm seeing him and I'mthere for like a month every
month and I'm coming down and hesays something that was funny

(45:21):
to me and again, I you alwaysgot to have humor in this or you
could go, you could go crazy.
But he said to me you knowyou're doing a lot for us,
you're doing a lot for theservice and I'm like, okay, what
are you doing here?
Where's this coming from?
Well, you're coming in herewith all your scare badges, your

(45:42):
uniform you're not and you'resitting right out front.
You sign in, you sit right outfront and you come in for your
appointment.
I'm like, okay, I that's, Idon't get it.
Have you ever noticed thatthere's no one else sitting
there with you?
I'm like, well, no, I justthought I was here.
No, when you go out there nexttime, look down at the two doors
down the foot doctor, the footdoctor he's got a little crowd
out there and foot doctor is onleave this week.
Okay, I'm just gonna let youknow.
So, ah, okay.

(46:05):
So now I'm honoring my normalself with loving soldiers and I
gotta okay.
So the next week I'm coming in,I sign in and I go down by the
foot doctor and sit with a bunchof soldiers and I'm loving it.
Within a week or two, I'mstriking up conversations with
them, getting to know their kidsor wife or whatever.
I'm chatting with them andhaving fun.
That's what I'm in the army foris to be with those guys.

(46:25):
Um, and so within aboutprobably gave it a couple more
weeks, maybe five weeks now dothe same thing and I go down
same crew, we're all talking andI just looked over to one of
the NCOs non-commissionedofficers I said, hey, sergeant,
how's that foot coming?
Anyway?
I looked right at him and hisfoot he's like wow.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
It's just like I did something in church.

Speaker 4 (46:49):
You gotta be kidding.

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Did you just do that and I, yeah, I really know
you've been coming a while,how's your foot coming?

Speaker 1 (47:02):
And he like wow, sir, you know my like.
Yeah, I know.
So what are we doing down here,man?
What are we doing?
Right, we're getting help.
So I'm going back down therey'all be silly down here if you
want and we moved down there andit's just a small thing, but it
shows the stigma.
It shows I don't want to gethelp and I can continue to
perform without getting help.

Speaker 4 (47:19):
Trying to compartmentalize all those
thoughts and feelings andeverything and not show your
emotion.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
You're a man and you don't need that help and all
that.
Now here's a funnier story andI'll try to keep names out of it
before I get you in trouble.
I come to work and the boss, sowe'll just leave it at that,
right?
The boss is yelling to get thisquarterback Monday morning, get
this quarterback on the phone.
And his XO is like what, okay,sir, you don't say no, right?

(47:45):
And he's getting someone on thephone and within 45 minutes we
had the quarterback for one ofthe professional teams.
It's really only 50 miles awayfrom here or so and he's chewing
them out.
He's chewing this quarterbackout.
Do you know what you did thisweekend?
I'm sure he's on the otherangle.
I got a clue.
Why is it?
Why is a four star got me onthe phone at 8 30 in the morning

(48:06):
.
You got hurt, you got hit.
You got a concussion, admit it,yeah, and you went back in.
Do you know what that does?
Do you know what that does?
All of my soldiers watch you, alot of you too, specifically,
you're that good and you wentback out there playing hurt.
You had a brain injury, aconcussion, and you went back

(48:29):
out and you just said I'm toughguy and all that, and I don't
work, it don't work.
And then he proceeded to explainin the same illustration I use
Okay, your head's like aMountain Dew, can you get a
concussion?
It puts a dent in that MountainDew can, okay, you need to go
somewhere, someplace and nottake any more stimuli in and

(48:52):
we'll work out that dent, we'llput it, but they'll never not
have a crease in that MountainDew.
Can the dent's out, but thecrease is still there.
And you didn't do that.
Go to a place, no light, nosensory perceptions, just stop.
And if you get hit again whenyou have a dent, it will be a
dent on a dent and you can't geta dent out of a dent.

(49:12):
It is not repairable or itwon't be the same out of a dent.
It is not repairable or itwon't be the same.
So you need to not do that.
And I'm pretty sure thatquarterback changed his
viewpoint and it was pretty coolto hear that and have it
explained that way.
But that's how passionate thatboss was and I think I still
carry some of that with me youdo.

Speaker 4 (49:33):
It's obvious's obvious.
Yeah, it's obvious, yeah.
So so how, through through yourjourney with all of that is are
you feeling better?
Is it being released?
How's all that going?

Speaker 1 (49:48):
Um, so let's go jump back to retirement Sure, because
that's going to get to that.
Yeah.
I have a hobby farm.
I got out in 13.
I got 20 acres hobby farm.
I'm an expert because I watch,you know, four YouTubes.
So I have chickens, I haverabbits, I have turkeys, and
then I get pigs, and then I getsheep, and then I get cows, and

(50:12):
it's huge.
We don't have any running waterto all the barns or nothing,
and so there's a lot of work.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
You're a glutton for punishment.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
Yeah, and then I, yeah, and my wife really, as you
just said, valerie, and sowithin a month or two it's
getting pretty large.
But I hear a sermon at Churchof the Brethren from our brand
new youth pastor and it wasabout Adam and it was about
Jesus and the framework and thestructure and the similarities
were there and I was like, wow,I'm a mechanical engineer, I

(50:48):
understand that.
I think that's pretty cool.
I need more of that.
I want to see the structure andthe framework and the theology.
And so I went to my pastor, dan, and I said, hey, I need more
of that.
He goes, okay.
Well, I don't want you to go tothis university, I want you to
go to this one.
And I went down to CincinnatiChristian University in
Cincinnati.
It used to be the CincinnatiBible College.

(51:10):
I went down there and I wantyou to take courses from this
specific professor, johnnyPresley, because it's awesome
and he will teach you more thanyou can handle.
And so I went down there.
Within two weeks I'm in acourse and it's an intensive
course that's over six days.
It's a whole semester in sixdays.
He does it once a year and Ifall in on it and it's the
doctrine of grace and that getsjam-packed into my head and I'm

(51:35):
loving it.
I'm in there.
Whatever I got to do, I'm goingto seminary.
Well, valerie comes to hersenses and says, okay, while
you're doing that, I'm not goingto be doing the farming thing
by myself.
So within the next year,everybody goes into freezers you
know all the chickens and therabbits and everybody.
But along the way down thereI'm trying to take the courses

(51:56):
from all the guys with the deepwater.
They are the ones, the ReggieJacksons and the bullpens.
I don't want to go to the newguys, I want to go to the guys
that are and I've gotten luckyblessed to have them.
But one of them is a Dr DavidRoadcup, and he teaches me
spiritual formation and, all ofa sudden, that framework of

(52:19):
theology that you can controlbecause it's framework, engineer
, I can control it.
You talk spiritual formation,you talk about your heart and
relationship with Christ.
Now it's another game.
It's not even a game, it'sanother way of life.
It's not controllable, it's not, it's soft and yeah, yeah, and
so that changed my life, with drdavid roach cup as a mentor.

(52:42):
He still is to this day andthat, just that is one mechanism
.
Obviously, within a year Igraduate, they close.
I say I broke, but theuniversity closed, sadly.
But within a year I'm pulpitfilling in a church and after
that year they're like would youlike to stick around?

(53:03):
We can only pay you part-time.
And I said, sure, but I knowthis job, just like battalion
command.
I mean, it's not, you can payme part-time, I have a pension
that's going to take care of therest easily, but it's at 2 in
the morning at hospice and I'mneeded.
I'm going to be there Tuesdaymorning so and they knew that
and that's what we've been doingso far.

(53:23):
So, um, that's where I'm at onon the church part.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Yeah, so as as you go through, you're getting through
part of your PTSD and you'regetting stronger in your faith
and stronger in your religion.
Are you still involved with thesuicide prevention or is that
all in the past?

Speaker 1 (53:47):
It has been on specific instances, talking with
folks that are dealing withsomeone with suicide ideologies
or thinking that or um, and alsoin just can I say representing
it in conversations when it'snot, uh, it's not commit suicide
, it's die by suicide.
You don't commit heart attack,you die by a heart attack.

(54:09):
And so getting that kind ofmindset out there gets it away
from a mysterious and they'remessed up.
Here's a good, for instance um,you break your arm, then you go
to the doctor and he sets itand he puts it in a cast and
you're going through six weeksin a cast and then you'll go for
six more weeks after that's offthrough some, uh, physical

(54:31):
training, therapy.
You'll get it fixed and it'sokay by everybody.
You have something challengingwith your emotions.
It's in your head.
People can't see it, theprotocols aren't defined and
noticeable.
Like a cast, then you're, thenyou're cast out or alienated, or
or he's weird, or he hassomething in his head and it's
not treated like an illness orlike a medical condition that we

(54:55):
can fix with therapy and withchemicals, with prescription
drugs, that kind of stuff.
It's treated in an ambiguousway.
I mean, if you think 60, 70years ago we used to have a
sanitarium where we would sendfolks away and they would.
They would just be locked awayor they'd be at shock treatment
and some of these other thingsthat I think we've figured out
by now.

(55:15):
That just don't.
It's not sustainable, it's notworking.
So if I can represent that insome of the endeavors and go
into the part-time pastor, whichis really full-time I've also
now been part of a stablemoments.
It's a horse therapy for youththat needs to have therapy,

(55:37):
youth that's had trouble whetherthey're scenarios at home or
whatever that they can come outonce a week and be at a horse
ranch and that they can then usethe horse as a medium.
A horse again, I sound like anexpert, but I just watched a
couple of YouTube videos.
A horse is again I sound likean expert, but I just watched a

(55:59):
couple of YouTube videos.
A horse is a prey animal.
It's always scared of beingeaten.
It's going to be prey.
It's not an alpha or a predator, and so it has the same timid
personality that perhaps someonethat has been damaged or needs
assistance, and so when you canget someone that has those
challenges to interact with ananimal that has those challenges
, there's empathy in the past,and then there's sympathy and

(56:21):
then there's understanding andthen I'm possibly there as a
mentor to facilitate that or tooffer encouragement or do all
that kind of stuff.
The part that got me on that issimilar to doing the police
stuff I'm doing now too.
I took the 13-hour courseonline to be a horse therapist

(56:43):
and you get certification andall that.
There was like a 20-minute clipwhere the psychologist is
trying to explain to you that akid a kid can come at you with
outrage and displaying acts ofaggression and anger and cuss
words and acting out and theymay most likely be doing it for

(57:06):
you then to be mad and thenfinally get to the point I can't
handle it.
I give up on you.
They drive you to that point sothat you reconfirm their belief
of themselves.
And I heard that and I rewoundit.
I played it again that are yousaying a kid may act out just so

(57:28):
that you confirm the identityhe already thinks he has and
he's worthless?
I can't get help, I'm worthless.
Something like that how can Inot be part of.
I mean I just was like, okay,you could have shown me that 20
minute clip and not the 13 hourscenarios, but that got me into
how can you not be part ofsomething If that and that's out
there.
I'm not saying that's anyparticulars where I'm at or any

(57:50):
cases or anything like that.
I'm just saying if that's outthere, I kind of need to be part
of that.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
I think and I can tell that it's helping you as
well it does.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
You're seeing that?
Yeah, exactly it.
The therapy by me helping ishelping me.
Obviously, I also say, when I'mdoing the Lord's work, I'm not
doing somebody else's Right, andso I want to continue to try to
be doing the Lord's work.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
One other opportunity , and again these are all like
wow, look what he's doing.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
And it's not that, it's just.
I'll probably tell you how muchtherapy I do need.
Richmond police department hastaken on a couple of chaplains
there's four of us, uh,volunteers, and they're from a
couple churches here in town, aswell as a deacon, I believe,
and then myself, and we arethere to assist the officers.

(58:45):
I haven't gone on a ride alongyet.
I do have a badge and an IEcard and but we've gone to some
devotionals and all that.
But the same population can bechallenged first responders.
They see things, theyexperience things that no one
should experience or see, justlike combat, just like these

(59:05):
kids in the horse therapy, andthey could use some assistance
and they may not want it, justlike the soldier with the stigma
, right, but if, but, if I couldbe any way helpful.
Just ministry of presence isjust being there.
You don't have to say anythingwitty, you don't have to talk,
you just be there and listen andtry.
If there's any way that I couldhelp, how can I not be part of

(59:29):
that?
I mean?

Speaker 4 (59:31):
yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
I mean hearing your story and Iheard part of this as we met
there last week.
Man, like you are on a missionfrom God.
You know there's obviously beenthings in your life that you've
seen that you will never unsee.
There's conversations you'vehad that I'm sure that you will

(59:52):
never forget those cries andthose screams of those widows.
But look at what you're doingnow.
You're right back into it.
But I can tell by theconversation, the tone of your
voice, I can see your facechange that it's helping you
just as much as it's helpingthose other people, and that is

(01:00:12):
an awesome thing to see.

Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
It does, it helps and in helping others you you're
helping yourself.
Yeah, part of that is and thiswas from this conference I just
went to last week theInternational Conference for
Police Chaplains.
It was in Indianapolis.
It's an organization, againinternational, but that's an

(01:00:35):
organization for chaplains thathelp the police, the sheriff,
first responders.
Love God, love one another asyourself.
So we're to love God, love oneanother.
And in loving God, it'ssometimes hard to see that
tangible, but you can love oneanother.
That's tangible.
In loving one another, you'reloving God.
But don't forget that lastcouple words as yourself, how

(01:01:00):
can you not love yourself andhelp others?
How can you not love yourselfand then love others?
If you can't love yourself, itmakes it really hard to not love
others.
And so love your neighbor asyourself means self-care, and
that was a big part of theconference.
To talk about that, to be ableto talk to the officers or to be

(01:01:21):
able to talk to thecongregation we need to take
care of ourself.
Who's not going to want you totake care of yourself?
And that's straight up Satan.
Is your parents or your lovedones going to be telling you
don't take care of yourself?
They're not.
So we need time to do that, todecompress, to take some of that

(01:01:43):
noise that you hear at work andget rid of it and that was a
big piece of what we talkedabout this weekend is to love
thy neighbor as yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
It's amazing, I've got two final questions here.
You've been awesome.
I mean it's awesome, I've beentalking too much.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
No, no, this is what we want.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
This is exactly what we want and you know, as you're
telling all these stories, I canonly imagine someone listening
right now who's battling PTSD.
Maybe it's someone from ourmilitary, maybe it's a first
responder, a police officerthat's hearing you talk, that's
been holding all this stuff in.
That's why we do this, isbecause there's one person out

(01:02:30):
there that needs to hear it andwill hear it, and it's because
of you being vulnerable and openand sharing your story and
super thankful for you doingthis.
Final two questions.
If you could sit on a benchsomewhere and have a
conversation with someone,living or deceased, who would it
be and why?

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
It would have to be Jesus Christ.
It's a lot of your answers Iunderstand.
It would be interesting to goback to some interesting
specific people on how they madedecisions or what, but to
obviously sit down with jesus,which we'll be able to um to see
the viewpoint, if I'm lookingat all these jobs and all these

(01:03:13):
experiences and gettingperspectives and tools to then
help others and myself, then tosit with the master that has all
the tools he built you so to beable to sit with him and get
the why it's not so much thewhat, it's the why you can tell
a soldier what to do, but whenyou tell him the why he can go

(01:03:36):
and do it without you over him,you're inspirational.
That way To sit with Christ andhear him would be over
enriching, it'd be amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
Yeah, great answer.
Any closing thoughts, words ofwisdom.
Bible verse quotes somethingyou lean on when, when, when
you're in maybe a dark momentwhere you're thinking about you
know some of those difficultiesand things you've.
You've seen conversations thatyou've had that you, you fall
back on, as is there somethingyou can share with our listeners
.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Well, I, I use first Samuel three, 10, and it's speak
, lord, for your servantslistening, because I want to be
able to hear.
There's a lot in that verse.
Speak, lord, for your servantis listening.
It's orientation, yourorientation, must turn to the
Lord.
Your attitude must be willingto take advice, in it's humility

(01:04:33):
, it's obedience.
So speak, lord, for yourservant is listening.
The trick for me, and a lot ofus, is listening.
Stop and listen.
And I strive to do that everyday.
You know, pick up your crossdaily.
It might be every five minutesfor me to do that, but I try to

(01:04:54):
do that.
One little cute one and this isme for the anger management
piece, which, again, I'll tellyou when I went to the BA, I go
see a nice lady.
She's the the door catcher, youknow she's your.
You got to go through her toget to a doc and I said I, no

(01:05:14):
offense, but I need a rooster.
And she's like what I said yeah, I kind of need to see a
rooster.
And then she thought, oh, Ikind of know what you mean, okay
.
So then of course I getassigned to the anger management
specialist and he is a rooster,he has hawk all around the room
and he's had challenges likethat great relationship.

(01:05:35):
I worked with him for over ayear.
He did transfer out one littletechnique which is kind of silly
.
But the mint that you get at anItalian restaurant, it has
medicinal purposes.
The mint actually does calmyour stomach from all the acids
and the Italian food, the spicy,and so it does have a chemical

(01:05:55):
process.
But he, he, he gave me a mint.
He took one too.
He said put that in your mouth,don't chew it, suck on it.
And it took me one minute and32 seconds to suck it down.
No chewing on it, no biting,just suck it down and he goes.
Okay, while you're doing that,imagine that you've just been

(01:06:16):
cut off on a Walmart parking lot, took your spot, you pop that
mint in your mouth.
You are not allowed to make agesture, you're not allowed to
make a reaction, you're notallowed to say anything.
You sit and think until thatmint is gone, and that will give
you separation, that will giveyou a minute 32, if you will, um
, maybe get a bigger mint, Idon't know, but that will give

(01:06:38):
you time to think.
And he, uh, from hisperspective, was what would your
wife want you to say?
What would your mom and dad?
And then I added at the end ofit, after I put the mint in the
way, was what would Christ wantyou to do in that moment?
You're representing him here ornot.
You can choose how yourresponse is.
You can't choose sometimes thesituation you're in, but you can

(01:07:01):
choose your response and thatwill show a lot what's coming
out of your heart.

Speaker 4 (01:07:09):
Yeah, you are an amazing man and again I thank
you for sharing your story.
You know it's one, it's obvious.
It's rooted in service andsacrifice and a deep sense of
purpose.
You've worn the uniform withhonor, you've led with
conviction and now you continueto serve your community with

(01:07:29):
grace and humility and it is anawesome, awesome thing to see.
Thank you for your service,thank you for your leadership,
thank you for doing all that youdid, even though that was your
job.
Beyond that, it was soimportant because I'm sure those

(01:07:54):
conversations you had you weretrained to have those difficult
conversations with those familymembers, but you held a lot of
that in right and you still doto this day.
I know that you do, I can see itand I can feel it, but by
talking, by helping others, byhaving those conversations,
that's therapy for you right andit's therapy for others and I

(01:08:16):
hope anyone out there listeningthat hears your story recognizes
that there's someone I need togo speak with, there's someone
that needs to go speak with,there's someone that needs to
hear my story and so superappreciative of you and your
service and coming up here today.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Well, thank you and speak Lord, for your servant is
listening.

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
That's great, ben, you got anything to add?

Speaker 5 (01:08:39):
Yeah, you were going to read out of your book.
Was there something that youwanted to read out of there?

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Out of the conference .
A couple books, the Body Keepsthe Score.
Amazing, the Trauma that weAccumulate.
And then this is one moreBulletproof Spirit, if I were to
say some of the statistics.
The number one cause of deathfor police is suicide.
There are nearly 200 suchdeaths every year in the United
States.
The rate of suicides forretired officers increases

(01:09:07):
tenfold.
Military statistics are evengrimmer.
On the average, one active-dutysoldier and 21 veterans die by
suicide every day.
And of all the working policeofficers, 15 to 18 percent have
post-traumatic stress disorderand over 200,000 vets suffer
from this disorder.
The statistics in here.

(01:09:28):
But this is just one tool, ahandbook that could help
everybody.
But specifically this is gearedtowards the officers that are
serving in this town in thesheriff's office and all the
other first responders.
A medic rolls up, uh.
An EMT rolls up and sees things.
That's just tough, uh, and he'ssaving lives and making a

(01:09:52):
difference.
But, um, he needs taken care of, or she needs taken care of,
just like, uh, the rest of us,yeah man.

Speaker 5 (01:09:59):
And what was the?
And you said in the Catholicconference, what was said about
the suicide?
It was said to love othersright, or you know, love others
or Christ, right Love love God,love one another and love
yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
So all those come in play with what this book is
trying to do.
It's taking care of each other,but it's also taking care of
yourself, and all of that pointstowards honoring God.
So yeah, I just think that'spowerful.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
It is very, very powerful If someone wants to
find you, to get a hold of you.
I don't expect you to give outyour cell phone number here.
How can they maybe come in to aservice to see you?
Or do you have social media oranything where someone can find
you to have a conversation?

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
I don't.
I have email, but you can gothrough the church.
Sure Church website has myemail, so talk.
Which is what?
Beach Grove Church of theBrethren out of Hollinsburg,
ohio.
Okay, and then maybe if theybug you, they'll bug you, yeah
we can.

Speaker 4 (01:10:57):
I can get you connected.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
I'm not saying I'm trying to invite myself back,
but here's what I did.
Mention you ready you ready.
Yeah, I scuba dove in Cuba andI saw the continental divide.
I went down 120 feet, which isnot legally possible for a
beginner.
I had also goat eyeballs inIraq and I also had them,
meaning you ate them ate them,and then I have had to remove

(01:11:21):
unborn piglets from their dyingmop.
These are experiences thatmaybe I need to share.
On episode two.
If someone bugs you enough andthey want to hear how did he eat
goat eyeballs, we'll get bugged, it'll be me.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
I'll bug Dan and Bob.
We'll get you back to tell moreof those stories.
You're an inspiration to manyand I hope here's what I hope.
I hope whoever's out therelistening and hears this shows
up at your church, shows up tohear you preach, shows up to
tell you how big of an impactthat your story had on them.
That's what I hope.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
It's a family, that's all I can say.
There's maybe 35 to 50.
It's a family.
After the third year I've beendoing it, maybe five on six.
Now I'm no longer apprehensive.
I got to say the right or the.
I'm talking to a small group,I'm talking to family, and so
everybody there has that givingspirit and forgiving spirit and

(01:12:13):
they know God's talking and Imay get in the way once in a
while, but God is really layingit on me to to say this or that,
and so it is a great familychurch way out in the country.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
Well, if you want to get ahold of of, uh, George, hit
us up, be tempered.
Uh, we'll be happy to make thatconnection.
Or or go see him on a on aSunday and hear him preach.
But thank you again, Thanks.
Thank you for your service,Thank you for your time.
Everybody share this thing.
You know you've got service menor women, first responders,
police officers, firefightersout there who need to hear this

(01:12:48):
story and can be deeply impactedin a positive way.
So share, subscribe, do allthose fun things.
We appreciate your ears, Go outand be tempered.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
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This is my dad, Dan.
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