BeTempered Episode 51 - Flipping the Script: Dan and Ben Get Real with Guest Host Matty Ledgerwood

BeTempered Episode 51: Tables Turned – Dan and Ben in the Hot Seat

In this milestone 51st episode of BeTempered, things get flipped—literally. Instead of leading the conversation, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr find themselves on the other side of the mic, interviewed by their good friend Matty Ledgerwood. The result? A refreshingly raw and deeply personal look at what it really means to live with intention, lean into discomfort, and commit to lifelong growth.

Dan opens up about a pivotal moment in 2022 when he realized he was just... too comfortable. On the surface, life looked good—successful career, stability, routine. But deep down, he knew he had more to give, more to explore, more to become. That awareness didn’t just spark a few journal entries—it lit the fire that would become this very podcast. His story is a reminder that growth isn’t always born from crisis; sometimes, it’s born from a quiet nudge that says, “You’re not done yet.”

Ben shares his journey of overcoming self-doubt and stepping into his own potential. He credits key mentors who believed in him before he believed in himself, and he speaks candidly about the pressures of being a role model—not just in public, but at home. “What are my kids seeing? What example am I setting for them?” he asks. For Ben, growth isn’t a personal pursuit—it’s generational. His reflections underscore the truth that how we grow directly impacts those we love most.

The conversation gets real about the fear of failure and the voice of imposter syndrome that so many of us hear but rarely admit. Instead of avoiding these uncomfortable topics, they lean in. “Failure only exists if you quit growing,” Matty says, a line that resonates deeply with both hosts. They emphasize that growth isn’t about perfection or speed—it’s about consistency, honesty, and showing up for yourself every single day.

One of the most powerful takeaways from this episode is that growth doesn’t have to be flashy. It might start with something simple—like going for a walk, being honest in a tough conversation, or choosing to reflect instead of react. Dan and Ben’s willingness to be vulnerable in this episode reminds us that personal development is messy, nonlinear, and absolutely worth it.

So—how are you choosing to grow today?

Tune in, reflect, and join the conversation. Dan and Ben want to hear how their journey is impacting yours.
 Visit www.betempered.com to listen and connect.

Support the show

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Thanks, allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
it's your home, you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatron's come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom showerdoors and many other products

(00:20):
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years,
kitchen's best, the clear choice.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
This is Be Tempered.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Good morning.
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast.
I am your host today, mattyLedgerwood.
This is episode number 51.
We got the 51.
Nailed it.
That's impressive.
So you get to look at my uglymug today.
I'm sorry about your luck there.
I'm going to tell you why,though.
We're all playing musicalchairs today.

(01:12):
I'm hosting, and I have twofabulous guests by the name of
Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr, andwe just thought that you guys
needed a chance to sit in thehot seat for once.
Dan said he's very nervousabout this, so we're going to.
So yeah, dan and Ben, welcometo your own podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us, Matty.
Yeah, you're welcome.

Speaker 4 (01:37):
Appreciate that.
By the way, dan, this is stillyour bill, not mine, but okay.
So I think one of the reasonsthat your podcast has gained
some traction is because, uh,you're telling stories about
people who are going throughlots of different seasons of
life and, um, your listenerslike we're attracted to that

(02:00):
because we're living out some ofthose same stories every single
day.
And you know, we've got our ownset of struggles and
disappointments, our own set offear, and so it's super helpful
when we get to hear how someonehas kind of worked through that
and their perspective in it andsome of the tough times that

(02:21):
they have faced.
And the other thing that Ithink that is helpful with that
is that it kind of reminds usthat we're not alone.
You know that there's otherpeople out there that are.
It's okay to be hard a littlebit, and, at least for me, it
gives me confidence that, hey,I'm not the only guy out here
who's on the struggle bus somedays.

(02:42):
I'm not the only guy out herewho's on the struggle bus some
days.
And so my opinion is that thereason that those are the
stories that we keep hearing onthe podcast is because you two
guys in particular, you know,this struggle is real here, and
your own growth journey hasbrought you to a point that

(03:04):
you've got a podcast now.
I mean, this podcast is adirect result of Dan.
Your own growth journey hasbrought you to a point that
you've got a podcast now.
I mean, this podcast is adirect result of Dan your own
growth journey, and so that ideaof personal growth working
through the struggle, it reallyis one of the foundational
tenants of this podcast, and sowho better to discuss growth
mindset with than you two guys?
So our theme today will becultivating a growth mindset,

(03:29):
and I'm gonna bring somequestions.
They don't even know what theseare yet.
They wanted to fly blind.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
So, dan, wanted to fly blind.

Speaker 4 (03:36):
Dan wanted to fly blind.
Ben would have preferred somepreparation.
So I don't know what I'm doing.
They don't know what they'redoing, so I'm not sure what
you're going to get.
But here we go.
So I don't know that.
I've ever seen growth to beunintentional.
Nobody accidentally grows,nobody accidentally loses a

(03:57):
bunch of weight.
Nobody accidentally has a greatmarriage.
Nobody accidentally builds agreat life.
So growth happens on purpose.
Growth is intentional.
So if you're going to grow, youhave to be able to realize that
I need to grow.
Dan, can you tell us about amoment in your life where you're

(04:20):
like man?
Something's got to change.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Yeah, well, first off , thanks for stepping into this
position.
Yeah, of course you know it wasan idea that we had with uh
coming to almost to episode 52,our first full year.
Um, you know, we wanted to dosomething different and actually
this was kind of yoursuggestion.
So, uh, I said, well, thanks.

Speaker 4 (04:42):
Maddie, this is, this is the role that you can fill.
But back to your said well,thanks, matty.
This is the role.
I shouldn't have opened mymouth, because here I am doing
it.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
The role that you can fill.
But back to your question, yeah, there was a specific time when
I knew that it was time for meto make a change and I've always
tried to live my life as a goodman, as a good husband, as a
good father, as a good rolemodel to other people, and I

(05:06):
think for the most part, I did.
But I knew deep down that I, I,I didn't feel like I was in,
that there was a lot more for me, and so I, I started.
It was.
It was in middle of of 2022when I just started to have
these feelings like man, I'mjust.
You know, we came out of COVIDand I was comfortable.

(05:30):
Business was good, family wasgood, everybody was healthy.
Um, covid, for us, was a, was a, was a, family was a, was a
very good time.
I mean, we, we grew closertogether cause we got to spend a
lot of time together.
We had a pond on a farm wherewe did a lot of fishing and
swimming and just just a lot offamily time.
So it was great.

(05:50):
But I was comfortable and I knewit and I just felt like I was
slipping into an abyss, of beingtoo comfortable, and I started
having dreams and I've told someof this story before, but I
started having dreams at nightabout being diabetic, about not
you know, about something.
Something was about to happen,or I felt like something was

(06:12):
about to happen in my life whereI was either going to get sick,
health wise, I just, I don'tknow.
I just had this feeling.
I just had this feeling, andyou know it.
It came about when I went to um.
The tipping point was when Iwent to my good friend Brad's
son's football game and and I'vetold the story about learning

(06:39):
about 75 hard uh from my goodfriend Jeff Swanson that was
what I needed to do right then,not for my health, but more so
for my mindset, just because Iknew that I was just.
I just felt like I was justspiraling out of control
mentally.

(07:00):
The food that I was eating,just the, you know, it was just
comfort and it and it.
It didn't feel good, though,and so that was the moment for
me where that was when the lightswitch went off and I told
myself it's time for the changeand this is the change that I
need.
So that was where my growthmore recently happened here in

(07:23):
the past two to three years.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
Okay, and would you say that you know this idea of a
growth mindset.
Is that something that reallyoriginated two, three, four
years ago, or was there elementsof that earlier on?

Speaker 2 (07:37):
No, I mean you know from from childhood, growing up
on a farm and watching my dadyou know, who was raised in the
in the family funeral home, um,go into farming when no one else
in his family had been a farmer.
You know, start with basically,I think, 150 acres raising pigs
, uh, splitting it all 50, 50with the landowner, um, and

(08:01):
watching him grow to, you know,raising 500 head of cattle to to
farming over 2000 acres, andand watching that, watching him
work hard to continue to grow.
And that's that's where itstarted.
So I've always had that in mymind.
I had it when I was in highschool and I knew I wanted to

(08:22):
play college football.
You know, watching the people Iaspired to be like in sports
and in that there's alwaysthings that have pushed me to be
better.
But looking back there, two tothree years ago, I just knew I
was in a bad spot.
I knew and nobody else probablywould have known, but I just, I

(08:44):
just had this feeling thatthere is more for me out there
to do.
There are people that I canhelp and I certainly can't help
with where I was mentally atthat time.
So that was, that was theswitch that I need, but I but I
had a great foundation growingup and watching my parents, you
know, build that farm and workhard, and I think, for me, you
know if, if anyone asks me, youknow how can I get to.

(09:04):
You know, build that farm andwork hard, and I think, for me,
you know, if anyone asks me, youknow how can I get to.
You know, here's where I'm at,how can I get to here.
It's consistency, it's beingconsistent every single day and
what you do to try to reach thatgoal or to try to accomplish
whatever it is that you'rereaching, you're you're reaching
for.
So um had that foundation earlyon as a kid and um, I just got

(09:27):
to that point in 2022 where Iknew that it was.
It was time for a big changefor me to make the impact that I
wanted to make.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
I don't think that.
That, uh, I think most peoplewould say that you know, if they
adopt this mindset of continualgrowth in their life, it does
seem like there's a tippingpoint, you know, somewhere along
the line where they're like man, it's it's time to move.
Um, and so I that that seemsrather common.
Uh, in in these types ofconversations.
Would you say up to that pointthat there was a certain

(10:00):
limiting belief that maybe wouldhave kept you from getting
there sooner?
Or do you think that that thebread just hadn't cooked long
enough in the oven yet?

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Yeah, it probably hadn't cooked long enough.
I, I again, I, I knew, um, Idon't know, I just had this tug,
and maybe it was, maybe it wasfrom God just saying hey, you're
not doing what I want you to do.
You know, it's time for you tobe the man that I, I made you
out to be, and so I just thinkthat was, that was the pivotal

(10:32):
moment in my life at 43 yearsold, where it was time to take
that, uh, that leap of faith, tobe a better father to my
children, to give them somethingto look at and to say holy cow,
dad went from 300 pounds to 200pounds.
He went from, you know, fallingasleep on Sunday afternoon,

(10:54):
taking a nap for two hours, to,you know, grind and work, and
you know, spending time with us,being at all of our sporting
events, pushing us in themornings to go and work out, and
all these things you know to bethat positive influence that
you know.
Maybe I was a positiveinfluence before, but I just
didn't feel like it.
I feel like I, I, there wasjust that time where I just had
so much more to give, and thatwas the, that was the push that

(11:16):
I needed.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
I do like my Sunday afternoon naps.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
I guess I haven't grown quite enough yet?

Speaker 4 (11:23):
I guess I haven't grown quite enough yet, ben.
I think that you know, when itcomes to growth, we deal with so
much humanity along the way,there's so much of ourselves

(11:49):
that are past that it limits us,feels like it stops us from
growing, and I think thatusually there's people that you
know God will place in your lifethat see something in you me
that we don't even see inourselves.
You know, because we tend toalways look at ourselves through
all of the insecurity.
Can you identify someone inyour past who was like man, this
guy, this lady, whatever,believed in me and that really
has made a difference in my lifetoday?

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, so I think you know I can think of multiple and
different stages of your life,right?
So in high school you knowCoach Etter I talk about Coach
Etter, coach Miller a lot, whoyou know I didn't believe in
myself quite a lot.
I was always my sport was a lot.
I was always my sport wasfootball.
Like that was always my, mybiggest sport.
I just love hitting people andstuff like that.
But then, um, you know mysophomore year, I figured you

(12:33):
know, we, they kept the freshmantogether our freshman year.
They wanted that group to, togain, you know, traction
together.
And then our sophomore year, Ifigured we kind of all just be
on the jv together.
That was when Coach Hedderpulled me up and he saw
something in me that I didn'tbecause I was never a basketball
player, like it's not my sport,but he saw my work ethic and
him telling me about like seeingmy work ethic, the way I worked

(12:56):
on the field and stuff likethat.
It's kind of he basically whatI thought was a sport trait,
right, he told me, taught methat it was actually a human
trait.
Like he's like you know, ben,like your motor and everything
like that is what is.
You know that's what's going todrive you in this world.
And so from that it helped megrow, you know, on the

(13:18):
basketball court, because thatyear I played varsity and would
guard like their bigs and stufflike that.
But looking back, like that setmy whole entire life like work
ethic, like that's what I wantto be known for, you know.
And so, you know, looking backthen and then you move on and
I've always had likeinsecurities, like you're
talking about, with likeself-esteem whether it's.

(13:39):
You know, I always joke withDan about being smart, but where
do you always, you know, getthose insecurities from?
It's from a real place.
I even when you joke aroundabout it.
So, um, you know, the first partwas, um, my faith, which I feel
like is a big part of my lifenow.
Uh, you know, I would neverconsider myself to go on a
mission trip.
There's a guy named Nick lamb.

(14:00):
He was, he'd been six yearsolder than me in school and we
went to CLC, had Jude and allthis, and then I would never
have thought of going on amission trip At CLC.
We've kind of felt like we, youknow, lisa and I, my wife, we
would talk about going to.
They go to Swaziland, africa,and they would do missions over
there, and we're like I'm notqualified to go over there, you
know.

(14:20):
Well, then, you know, thingshappened at CLC.
We switched church to FirstBaptist, which I think was a God
thing, and then Nick, becausehe knew me, was able to call me
out on that, and so he was likewell, you are good enough, think
about all the things that youcan do over there.
We go over there and I realizeGod has a place for everybody,

(14:40):
even if you're not the smartestor sharpest tool in the shed,
and so I feel like that helpedme with my insecurities there.
And then, um, you know, hererecently I would never have
thought to be in the position Iam and, dan, you know I don't, I
still don't know why at thepebble edge, you came up and
talked to me about 75 hard, butyou know, from there, just him
stepping out and doing that.
Then now I'm in a position whereI'm having a podcast or I or

(15:02):
well, I co-host a podcast andyou know talking to people about
growth and then the position Iam in, like project managing and
stuff like that.
You know all that belief.
So Dan is a big, huge part inthat as well.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yeah, there's no doubt that we need people in our
life to continue to help us togrow and to inspire us.
For sure, um, I, I completelyagree that, uh, uh, that, uh,
the Lord doesn't need skill, uh,from anyone, he just needs
willingness and half the battles, becoming willing, uh, for sure

(15:34):
, um, can you think of your,maybe, dan, can you think of
something in your life whereyou're like, okay, I, there's
this decision in front of me tomake and, uh, this is, this is a
risk, this is bold, this is big, and maybe even a lot of people
around you were like no, Idon't know that that's really,

(15:55):
uh, really, uh, a good one.
And you're like and you, you'relike, no, this is what I got to
do, I need to do it.
And then you end up making thatdecision and it ends up really
working out or changing things.
Can you do, you have somethinglike that?
Can you talk about a momentwhere you know your, your desire
to grow and to improve pushedyou to a point to risk something

(16:16):
that many other people wouldn'tbe willing to risk?

Speaker 2 (16:20):
This podcast.
Sure, you know, when I hiredBen and brought him onto the
team and we started havingconversations and you know I was
already, you know, a year and ahalf, two years into my you
know my mind shift, change andmy journey, you know, to to get
better and to improve myself,you know that was the next step

(16:45):
that I, I I'd seen in my mind.
You know I I had listened tomany different podcasts and you
know just inspirational peoplelike Ed Milet and John Gordon
and Brendan Brouchard and, um,you know all these, these men
and and some women that are justsuper inspirational and I knew

(17:06):
what it did for me to help mymind and to help me to cultivate
better leadership and to be abetter man and a better person.
And Ben and I started to have aconversation about doing a
podcast and it was in the backof my mind but I was just so
insecure about what do I have tooffer that people would

(17:30):
actually listen.
One, I hated to hear my voice Imean, most people do.
And then, for two, you knowjust that fear of being judged
and what people were going tosay and what people were going
to think.
And you know, I specificallyremember us having that
conversation, ben and I havingthe conversation, deciding, okay

(17:50):
, we're going to do this.
And, uh, you know, startrecording in the basement.
And then you were our firstinterview, episode two, um, and
you know, when we made the shiftto go to put it out on social
media, that was a very, verynerve wracking time for for me,
because that was in my eyes,that was when it became real.

(18:13):
That was when, you know, we hadalready recorded I don't know
how many different podcasts,maybe three or four, I don't
remember exactly what the numberwas, but I felt pretty good
about it, but I was just anxiousand nervous and you know, oh
boy, here we go, Um, but I, Ijust kept having this feeling in
my mind and and I'd have thesedreams of you know how this

(18:38):
could impact that one personthat we set out to help, and so
that was a big challenge for meto get over mentally and be like
, all right, I'm going to takethat step, to do this, to put
this out there.
And then there were multiplethings throughout this past year
which is so hard for me tobelieve that this is this is

(19:00):
episode number 51.
We're about to record episode52.
And, to think back, it seemslike decades ago that we did
this, you know and um, but Ilook at what it's done for for
me, for Ben, for all the gueststhat we've had on the show, and

(19:22):
what it's, what it's helped dofor my business, um, and I mean,
it was just one of the scariestthings I've ever done, but has
been one of the most rewardingthings that I've ever done is is
this podcast, and so I'm I'mexcited to see where it goes.
That's awesome.

Speaker 4 (19:42):
Talk about the.
You know you take a big risk.
Okay, this is everyone'slistening.
They're they're.
You know they're calculatingrisks right now in their life.
Do I take that risk or not?
You take the risk.
Um, what kind of growth haveyou seen come from this risk of
starting the podcast?

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Confidence.
Um, I feel like for me.
You know I was never Confidence.
I feel like for me.
You know, I was never.
I may have seemed like I was aconfident person, but until
we've actually got into the meatand potatoes, you know, say
halfway through doing thesepodcasts, I was never confident
in my abilities.
I was always questioning why me?

(20:20):
Why, you know, I'm notqualified to do this, I'm not
qualified to interview thesepeople, and so I would set
different benchmarks for myself.
I said, okay, um, dan, let'ssee if you can get Bill Courtney
, let's see if you can get JohnO'Leary these names that these
people that we've interviewed,um, you know that are are famous

(20:41):
people, that that you know dopublic speaking and motivational
speaking all over the countryand the world.
And we did, and I was like, ok,I can do that.
So I proved to myself that wecould get these people and
interview these people and sharetheir stories and have these
conversations.
From that it just, you know,it's slowly helped to build my

(21:08):
confidence, um, that we are onthe right path and that that I
am the right person for the betempered podcast and that Ben is
the right person for the betempered podcast and that
everyone that that comes andsits at this table and that we
are fortunate enough tointerview and to have them share
their stories, they're theright person for for this
podcast.
So, um, yeah, that's been,that's been.
The biggest thing for me isjust help help my confidence in

(21:29):
myself.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Uh, I don't think people understand how much
growth comes from that risk,when you take it, and that what
that does for you as a person.
Person.
It changes so many things inyour life.
But just the willingness to say, hey, I'm going to take a risk,
and if you're willing to, ifyou're like me, I don't know, I
don't know, I don't know if Ican do it.

(21:53):
And usually the risk revolvesaround our insecurities we're
not good enough, we're not smartenough, we're not, we can't
communicate well enough, I don'thave the right words to say, I
don't have the right background,I don't have the right
experiences.
But you are who God created youto be and that capacity that
you have is valuable and ifyou're willing to take that risk

(22:16):
, the amount of growth thatcomes from that is incalculable
100% yeah 100% incalculable.
My opinion a hundred percent.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
Um, benny boy, tell me about amoment in your life where you're

(22:37):
like option a, option B, maybeeven C, or no options at all,
but it ain't working where I'mat and I've got to move.
Yeah, tell me about that moment.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
Well, first one that pops to mind is obviously coming
to Catrons.
That'd be probably optionnumber one.
Um, so you know I I started insales.
Uh, let's see, it'd been about15 years ago is when I started
in sales and and grew up, thecompany and, um, you know, the
company that I worked for filedbankruptcy and then I go work

(23:06):
for another company that thevice president, um, from my old
company came and found me andwas like hey, you come here, you
work from home.
You know, you talk aboutcomfort and growth.
So you know, when I, when wecame to patrons, it was kind of
big God thing.
Um, cause, you know, Dan and Iwere coaching at the time,

(23:27):
coaching together, and he made acouple comments and it just
kind of was sitting on my heart,sitting on my heart.
And then, you know, dan kind offelt the same thing.
So we had a conversation.
So, you know, there was thatoption of okay, so you've been
doing something for 15 years,like you're good at it.
You know, um, there was never achance, like I wasn't going to
lose my job there.
Like you know, I was verycomfortable.

(23:51):
I uh had my customer base thatI built for a long time.
But then there was this, thisnew opportunity, right, option B
, which would have been Catrons,and at that time there was no B
tempered it was.
It was just, you know, it was,uh, just Catrons.
And you know, dan and I talkedand and just feeling that chance
for growth.
Like you know, one thing thatreally led me there was iron
sharpens iron.
We've been coaching together,we've been, um, you know,

(24:14):
talking a lot of practice andthen we had similar, you know, I
think we talked about similarthings, like where Dan lost a
whole bunch of weight, I lost awhole bunch of weight and all
these things and and growth andfaith and all that.
And it's just like, okay, Ihave no idea where this could
lead.
I don't know.
Um, you know, I I think I'd bebetter off, but I'm not a
hundred percent sure.
Or I could stay at home, whereyou know it's pretty easy,

(24:37):
rolling out of bed and justdoesn't matter what you have on,
just hop on the computer andfind inventory and you know
we're living comfortably andit's just.
That would be probably my best.
You know, my best comparisonthere and what drew me was, like
I said, the growth, right, ironsharpens iron.
It's something I extremelybelieve in.
And then, something that wetalk about all the time we

(24:58):
actually had a shirt that saidit was, you know, uncomfortable.
Or you know comfort does notcome for, or your growth does
not come from being comfortable.
You know you have to beuncomfortable for growth, and so
that's one of the big reasons.

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Yeah, I, I mean I I say it a lot, you know you've
got to become comfortable beinguncomfortable and say you can't.
you can't grow without it,thinking about comfort and
discomfort and stuff like that.
If growth is uncomfortable andI want you both to answer this

(25:34):
what then motivates you to grow?
Because we are naturally wiredto seek out comfort and
relaxation.
We're naturally wired to putourselves in a position where
we've given ourself the easiestway possible.
And so if the real growth, ifthe stuff in that requires risk,
that's massive discomfort,what's motivating the growth

(25:58):
then?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
for me.
I I always again, I go back tolistening to someone like Ed
Milet he is the mostinspirational man that I
listened to him and John Maxwell.
They're the best at what theydo as far as motivation,
leadership, discipline.
When I look at my fitness, Ilook at Navy SEALs and I know
that that's painful and I knowas a as a podcaster with Be

(26:55):
Tempered Podcast, I know I got along way to go.
Long way to go.
I'm okay with that.
That's part of the growthprocess.
I know that come the end of June, when I go down to Georgia and
I hike for 24 hours in themountains with a bunch of Navy
SEALs, that's going to hurt.
That's going to be growth.

(27:16):
But that for me and this wasnot me three years ago, this was
not me four years ago I wouldhave never done anything like
this.
But as I've gone, you know,from 2022 to, you know, 51

(27:36):
episodes ago with the podcast tobringing Ben on and and and
having um again, that ironsharpens iron I I just strive
now and I, I want to be betterand I know I can be better.
I feel like there's so muchmore for me, even though I am so
much further ahead than I wasthis time last year, this time
two years ago, three years ago,20 years ago.
I feel like there's so muchmore.

(27:57):
So I am always constantlylooking at people who I feel are
way better than me and I'mgoing to try to get there.
I'm going to do everything thatI can to get there, and I know
it's going to hurt and I'm okaywith that.
So that's what it is for me.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
You have an answer there bud.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah, so I, first off , I agree a hundred percent with
what Dan said.
You know, like we just talkedabout iron sharpens iron.
The second thing, I think, iswhen you're in that
uncomfortable, or when you'reuncomfortable and you're feeling
that discomfort, I think thebig thing is to look ahead.
Right, don't look back to whereyou came from.
You know what I came from therelike that's pretty good job.

(28:34):
I think the big thing is youlook at the goal, you look at
where you're trying to go and Ifeel like that's what drives me
to keep going, like that's whatdrives me to keep going and no
matter, no matter what phaseI've been in where I'm
struggling, if I just keeplooking at that goal and being
like do I want to get there?
Is that who you want to be?
And I just think you know youlook in the mirror where you're

(28:57):
at and ask yourself is thatwhere the goal is?
And I think that's what drivesme.
The other thing that drives meis, you know, having three boys.
What are they going to do?
What are they looking at?
What kind of father am I beingfor them when they see me?
Are they seeing, you know, adad that just wakes up, hates
his job, goes in 9 to 5, comesback home he's so tired and
physically and mentallyexhausted from the day that he

(29:18):
doesn't have time to spend withthem.
Is that what I want them to see?
Is what you know a father, whata man is.
No, like I want my boys to wakeup and be like, oh, dad's still
at the gym, or, you know, comehome from work and you know I
had a great day at the office orno matter what.
Like my mindset back home is Iwant to be a great dad and I
want to have the energy to dowhatever their dreams are.

(29:38):
I want them to start chasing itnow, and I just feel like
that's why I keep trying toteach them and what you know,
why I coach all these kids indifferent sports.
I feel like as soon as oneseason ends, we're in another
one.
Why do I do that?
It's because I want those kidsto understand like we're not
looking at where we are rightnow.
We're looking at where we'regoing to be in a year.
We're looking where you want toget at in life.
What do you want?

(29:58):
And so that's that's what Ifeel like, if I can show them
what discomfort, looks like withme, or being uncomfortable and
I continue to keep growing, thenthat's what I want them to see
is you keep going for that goaland you remind them that's what
you're going for, is the goal,and just keep looking down, keep
looking forward, don't lookbehind.

Speaker 4 (30:19):
What would you say to ?
I think the start is what is sohard it's getting moving.
Um, so what do you say tosomeone that says, man, I got,
I've got dreams, and I just like, like, how do I manufacture the
motivation?
Like I don't feel, like, youknow, I, I'd like to change, but

(30:40):
the but, the heart of thechange, feels to be too big, and
so I'm not sure that the juiceis worth the squeeze.
What do we say to that person?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Well, I'm going to tell you it's actually a lot
easier than you think, and yourmind will play tricks on you,
right?
Your mind is constantly goingto be telling you you can't, you
can't, you can't, you can't,you're, you can't get better.
You shouldn't do this.
There's always going to be that, that negative pull on you.

(31:10):
You want the simple truth.
Go outside and go for a walk.
Don't put your earbuds in, justgo outside and go for it,
whether it's down your road,whether it's at a local park,
wherever it might be, go for awalk.
Take 30 minutes, take an hourand just walk.
Be with your thoughts, be, bewith where you're at and talk to

(31:33):
yourself.
Talk to yourself as you'regoing.
I'm telling you, I've talked toso many people and it's been
such a huge impact on my life,whether it's at the beginning of
the day, whether it's the endof the day, just go outside,
breathe in that fresh air, walk,listen.
If you're a person of faith,like we are, ask God, say hey,

(31:54):
here I am, be with me right now.
Give me that guidance that Ineed.
You know what I'm thinkingabout.
You know what I'm wanting to do.
Give me some guidance and justwalk.
It is really that simple.
You don't have to go run, youdon't have to go to the gym and
work out, just go for a walk andbe with your thoughts, be with

(32:14):
your mind and have a littlefaith that, um, you know you're
going to get the direction thatyou need.
Because I'm telling you, youknow, you might not that first
walk, but if you go for a week,you know you go every couple of
days and you take that walk,you're going to figure things
out and that's been really thebiggest thing for me.
That's helped to push me and togive me, you know, all these

(32:37):
different ideas and directionthat I pray for every day.
It's just a simple walk.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Yeah, I did mine early this morning and I spend
most of the time talking to Godand with my thoughts and I need
his help, I need his grace, Ineed his wisdom and he does do
that.
I like that.
You said it doesn't have to behard.
That's really what I wanted youto say Good job, uh, because I

(33:04):
think that we we, we look atgrowth as being so difficult.
And it doesn't have to bedifficult.
It just needs a little movement.
And if you can start small andget a little movement, you can
then build momentum.
And, uh, you know where Dan andBen are at growing.

(33:26):
You know they're gainingmomentum now, and so he's going
to do something this summer.
That, I think is crazy.
That's probably cause I haven'tgrown enough yet, uh, to get to
that point.
Or you're smart're smart, butbut that growth builds momentum,
yeah, and it doesn't have to behuge growth.

(33:46):
And so you know, to someonewho's listening, he's feeling
like man.
I feel like my life is stuck.
Don't feel stuck.
Just take a little baby stepand, little by little by little,
a little turns into a lot.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
Yeah, and I think that is truly the key is just
being consistent.
If you can be consistent,whether it's in your work,
whether it's in your fitness,your family.
Be consistent, do it every day.
If you do that, you will startstacking those wins, and again,
it doesn't have to be hard.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
Yeah, absolutely.
And the last podcast, I thinkyou had a Brian honor.
That was a couple of podcastsago, um, and you guys got into a
discussion on success and youknow when it's so hard to define
what success is, because wewere going to look at it through
an American mindset of you knowhouse and vehicles and vacation

(34:42):
, some kind of money, and youknow what kind of people respect
me, or you know something likethat, and those are all wrong.
That is not success.
If you can learn to definesuccess as growth, you're off to
the races.
That's right.
So talk about that.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, you know, we talked about it with Brian is,
you know I?
I, I was one of those peoplewho always thought it was.
You know when, when I look atsomeone successful, I again I'll
go back to Ed Milet.
He owns an Island, he's gotevery vehicle known to man, he
lives in a house on the ocean.
I mean, he's got anything andeverything where you would look
at him and you would thinkthat's success.

(35:20):
But it's really not.
Success again goes back togetting out of bed.
When your alarm clock goes off,it goes.
Goes back to spending time withyour quality time with your
kids and your family and yourwife.
Um, spending those those timeswith you know where, where we'll
have breakfast together andwe'll just sit and have a
conversation man to man aboutbusiness, about life, about

(35:43):
what's you know, what's going on.
That that's you know, um, youknow, affecting you in a
positive or negative way.
Uh, success is just showing up.
If you're going to do somethingfor someone, if you're going to
be there for someone, if you'regoing to go to work, go to work
when you're supposed to bethere on time, that's success.
And just doing it daily, it'sjust the little things.

(36:05):
I think we get caught in thissociety with social media again,
where everybody lives thisperfect, lavish lifestyle and
that's not true.
You know what is?
What is success for you?
Success is getting out of bed.
Maybe it's going for that walk,you know.
Maybe maybe your, your healthis not good and and you keep

(36:26):
saying why me?
Why are all these thingshappening to me?
Why am I sick?
Why am I hurt?
Why am I not having the successand I'm not moving up in in my
job when you know this guy is,or this this lady is?
Are you doing the little things?
Are you?
Are you being consistent inwhat you do or are you just
making excuses?

(36:47):
I mean, that's success to me isjust being consistent.

Speaker 4 (36:51):
I think it's a Craig or shell who says, um, the
difference between the life youhave and the life you want is
all of the little habits youhave in place, um, or something
similar to that, and it that isso true.
Yeah, it's the little stuff.
Um, ben, most of the importantthings in life are not big.

(37:13):
Um, you know, you're going tohave very few opportunities
where it's like a actually alife changing moment.
Big, you know, from one thingto the next, just massive.
So talk to me about a smallmoment, a quiet moment, a
something that would not bedramatic, not flashy, not
impressive, but something thatdeeply changed you as a person.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Um, I well.
So I think one of the bigthings is when the mind, when my
mindset, actually shifted.
Um, you know, when you'restruggling, paycheck to paycheck
at a young age, you know youview success as having money.
You know, man, I just want tobe successful, I just want to be
able to.
You know, have you know any?

(37:59):
You know, you see somebodydrive a new car.
I just want that new car.
But then, you know, I thinkwhen my mindset really started
shifting was having a kid.
You know, having your son.
You know, when he was young, hewas in the NICU for a while.
So he was like, I think, justabout two weeks old when I was
first able to hold him, becausehe was plugged in and all that
stuff, and I think that was themoment, like just that little

(38:24):
moment of you know, he still hada wire in, uh, like a feeding
tube, um, but that first momentthat I hold, uh, I held him and
it was just like.
You know, this is success, likehaving a family, having my boys
, and it's still reminded ofconstantly.
I mean, um, you know, the otherday I got home from work and
Ev's been just dying to gofishing, right, I mean just been
dying and Evie's four now, anduh, so we went and we caught one

(38:46):
fish.
The whole entire time but he'ssitting there and when he caught
that one fish, he starteddancing.
And you know, we get back inthe truck and he just looks at
me and he's like dad, this isthe greatest day in his life
because he just got to spendtime with his dad.

Speaker 4 (39:07):
So I think it's those little moments I often tell
people that I I aged a decadeovernight, from from going to
the hospital that morning toholding my boy at night, callan,
when they, when he finally wasthere, 10 years different.
I mean it's, it's remarkablewhat parenting will do for you
in that regard.

(39:27):
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, it is yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Pretty cool.
So growth is messy, it's hardwork and you know we just spent
time talking about success.
Is that you're growing?
Let's talk about failure,because how often, when you're
growing, are you always gettingit right?
Not very often.

(39:50):
Not very often.
Exactly.
Can you think of a time whenyou say, man, I failed big but,
boy, I grew a lot from it?

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, there's failure every day for me.
I mean I, whether it's, um, youknow, just struggling to do the
right thing, struggling to, um,say the right thing, man, I
don't know, Failure is one ofthose things I fear.

(40:24):
I don't, I don't, I don't knowhow to say this, but you know, I
, I fear the failure of, offinancial failure, I fear the
failure of not being a goodfather, I fear the failure of
not being a good father, I fearthe failure of not being a good
husband, and so everything I dois to offset that that fear of

(40:47):
failure.
Um, and there's, there'snumerous times in my life where,
um, you know, I can, I canthink back to early instances
with the business, where, youknow, we had some projects that
we failed to bid properly, thatI failed to bid properly, and
they could have very easily, andI'm, uh, the good Lord was

(41:08):
watching out for us um, that wedidn't sink the ship, and so
that failure made me a betterestimator.
That failure made me a betterestimator.
It made me a better businessowner.
Uh, it made me, you know, honein on my skills of of what I was
doing to, to get better atthose things.

(41:29):
Um, but it is.
It is my probably my biggestfear is is to fail, and you know
what failure to me might becompletely different to failure
to somebody else.
But, um, you know what failureto me might be completely
different failure to somebodyelse.
But you know, I want to be thebest man that I can be for my
family, for my employees, for mycommunity, and my fear of

(41:52):
failure motivates me to keepgoing, to keep moving forward,
because I, I don't want to fail.
So I didn't really answer yourquestion, but, uh, I'm going
through my mind on reallyspecific instances and, um,
there's a lot.
I mean, I, I failed a lot inathletics.

(42:14):
I failed a lot, Um, you know,in school I wasn't the greatest
student, Um, but I think fromall those little failures I I
was able to stack some wins tolearn from those.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Yeah.
So I I think back to my firstfield, or fear of, not fear of
failure.
Dan's got me on anotherquestion.
My first, my first growth fromfailure, I feel like, is, um,
you know, the first time in highschool, um, high school, having
that fear of failure or notfear of failure.
Jeez, louise, that failure Idon't know if it was really

(42:49):
considered a failure, but I wasscared to death to actually try,
right, like to go, so football.
I had a bunch of differentletters, college visits and
stuff like that, but I wasscared to take off Like I would
not.
I never really been away frommy parents and that was just
extreme, something that just Icouldn't leave my comfort zone

(43:12):
and so, looking back on that, Iview that as a failure, though
it was the first time that I setthat bar of being too scared to
try, you know, and being scaredof failure there, and so now
it's like if I fail, I'm goingto grow from it, right?
So I think saying yes tosituations is where I feel like

(43:32):
I've gotten the best growth fromfailure, because how many times
have I looked back and I'vesaid no to things because of
failure, like you're scared todeath of it.
And when you fail and you failand you fail, just make sure you
grow from it.
Right, I view failure as a loss.
Right, when you lose, you knowthat's a chance for growth.

(43:52):
Why did I lose?
How did I lose?
How can I make up for it?

Speaker 4 (43:56):
You know, I'm trying to think of it Well as you're
talking, it's given me sincewe're doing this on the fly,
kind of caught me off guard, butthat was your decision.

Speaker 2 (44:10):
I know, um, I go back to.
You know, prior to 2022,.
You know, throughout my wholelife, um, you know, being in
sports and then being infootball and college and then
coming out.
You know I was always a big guy, defensive lineman in college,
and so being big was just who Iwas.
And you know I would always, Iwould always say, all right, hey

(44:32):
, Monday, I'm going to startMonday, I'm going to start
working out, I'm going to behealthy, I'm going to lose
weight, I'm going to eat betterand do all those things.
And then, you know, maybe twoweeks would go by, maybe four
months would go by and I wouldhave a little bit of success,
but then I would fail.
You know, I w I would go backinto those old habits, into
those old routines and I woulddo that constantly.

(44:53):
For you know, a better part of20 years of my life, just a
constant.
You know I'm going to do it onMonday and I'd start it and then
I would fail.
And so you know, for me, youknow those, those 20 years prior
to 2022 was finally when.
You know, in 2022 was finallywhen that light switch, light

(45:13):
switch went off and I said I'mnot going to fail at this again.
I recognize that I can't lookweeks, months, years out.
I need to look at today.
I'm not going to go back tothat failure that I had the
prior 20 years.
I'm going to focus on today.
It goes again, goes back tosuccess.

(45:34):
I'm going to be successfultoday.
I'm going to go to bed tonight,I'm going to wake up tomorrow
and I'm going to do it again,but my focus is on that day, and
so that was probably the thewhere I I took all those
failures from the prior 20 yearsof making those promises to
myself that I didn't keep topushing forward and saying I am

(45:55):
not going to fail again, I'mgoing to be successful today.
So that was that's probably thebiggest thing for me that I
learned from in my failures.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
So if we I appreciate you guys sharing that stuff, I
I'm, you know, probing forvulnerability and I appreciate
that you go there If we candefine success as growth, and
then we fail and we grow fromthe failure as growth, and then
we fail and we grow from thefailure, was it actually failure
?
That's deep Cause.
We grew, right, right.

(46:24):
So it was a success and and andyou know, let's get into fear
of failure, because that is sucha that that's a showstopper for
most people we will literallycap our capacity, our God-given
potential, because of our fears,so much so that we're paralyzed

(46:46):
, we can't move, and so the fearis worse than the failing is,
because at least from thefailing I can learn.
And so I think, if we're goingto define success as we're
growing, we can't define failureas failure, if I grow

(47:07):
eventually grow from it.
It's just another opportunity tomove forward.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, it is.
And you know I talk about fearof failure and maybe it's not a
fear.
I just I am just determined tobe successful again on that
specific day.
So maybe it's not a fear.
I'm just I.
I'm just not going to fail, butif I do, I know that I'm going

(47:31):
to be okay and I'm going torebound from that and I'm going
to learn from it.
But I but, but today, today I'mgoing to be successful.
But if something knocks me offthat horse and I have a stumble
and I have a failure, I'm goingto get better because of it.
So I know I talk about.
I said that.
You know I have a massive fearof failure.

(47:52):
I guess I'm not afraid of itbecause I know it's going to
happen.
I'm not perfect.
None of us are perfect.
We're not Jesus.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
So yes, it's definitely motivating you a
hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
Yes, yeah, A hundred percent motivating me, which I
you know.
Then you got to turn that intodiscipline to just keep going
and get through those, thosefailures and those tough times.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
So yeah, and that might be one of the reasons.
I feel like it's it's hard tosit here and think of failures
because I can think of a millionthings that I've done wrong.
Right, like you sit here andyou're like, well, what have you
done wrong this week?
And it's like, well, let me getthe list out.
But I feel like maybe it's justthe mindset of it's not failure
, like it's just, yeah, youmessed up, but how do we correct

(48:36):
it?
And how do we go from there andthink of failures?
And I feel like when I think offailure, I think of an utter
catastrophe, like just somethingthat just absolutely.
And yeah, there's moments thatwrecked me and tore me up, but
you know, how do I move forwardfrom it?
Could I've got to where I ambecause of it?
No, so I don't really considerthat failure.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
You know so.
I don't really consider thatfailure, you know, and I, you
know I bring that up for thesake of people who listen, who
feel like yeah, but, but, butfailure is is the end, all be
all, and really the only failureis when you don't keep growing.
That's it.
And so you know, you are goingto have to employ some courage.

(49:17):
You are going to have to, youknow, find some motivation.
You are going to have to get upand do the little things, yes,
but just because you miss amorning doesn't mean you're a
failure.
It makes you a human and it'sokay to be a human.
But we put so much pressure onthat word failure and then,
conversely, put so much pressureon that word failure and then,

(49:38):
conversely, put so much pressureon the word success, and so
we're striving for somethingthat is really not achievable
and we're petrified of somethingthat is our humanity, that we
can't get away from.
And I think the result is isthat most people live the middle
of their life in aninsignificant fashion, stuck,

(50:00):
and so growth pushes us throughsome of that that insignificance
.
So I screw up, I don't get itright.
I miss a workout, I, I, I havea fight with my wife, I, I, I
screw up.
Okay, I'm a human.
At that point, for me, allthese thoughts start going

(50:25):
through my head You're a fraud,you're a fraud, you're a fraud,
you're a fake, you're a fake,you're a fake.
And there's all this self-doubtthat comes because I'm a human.
Okay, my sinful nature pouringout of me.
How do we deal with self-doubtwhen we don't always get it
right?

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Man, you're coming with a thunder.
Um, you just have to recognizethat there's there's good and
there's evil in this world.
Again, whether you are a personof faith or not, there there is
there's good and there's bad,and the bad is the self doubt,

(51:08):
right?
The good is the confidence thatthat that you know, tells you
to keep going, to keep doingthis.
The bad is saying what the heckare you doing?
You suck at this.
You know why.
Why are you continuing to do apodcast?
Nobody's listening to you.
The other side saying hey, youjust got a call the other day
from someone who was so impactedthat they're bawling their eyes

(51:30):
out on their phone on the phonetelling you the story about how
, you know, sam Flutterjohnstory impacted them because
their husband, who diedtragically in a farm accident
all of his, you know he was ableto give his organs to people as
far away as Africa.
So that's the good.

(51:51):
The bad is saying stop.
You're spending this money toproduce this podcast.
You're spending this money toproduce this podcast.
Why so?
How do we get through that?
You just keep going.
You don't stop.
You recognize that there'salways going to be those
naysayers and most of the timeit's yourself, it's not other

(52:14):
people.

Speaker 4 (52:15):
Biggest naysayers yourself.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
You are always going to be your biggest critic,
people, biggest naysayersyourself.
Yeah, you are always going tobe your biggest critic and
that's something for me that Ibattle with every single day is
hearing this guy on my left sidesaying you're an idiot.
The guy on the right sidesaying, no, you're not.
Just keep going, and so thatthat's what I do.
Is I just?
I just keep my head down andrecognize that, uh, I'm going to

(52:38):
hear both those voices everyday, but I'm going to keep going
.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I think that's the moment that you know, maybe not
when you first wake up and you,you know you sleep in.
You know not in those, but Ithink that's when the walk comes
in big for me.
You know, whenever I feel downon myself or I feel like a big
imposter, I pray about it.
You know, I feel like that'skind of centers me in everything
, because you know you you'regetting mad at yourself because
you missed a workout and you'reletting you, letting that define

(53:07):
you.
And then you go out and youpray and you're just like God,
like you know.
I know I didn't, you know youwouldn't ask God for forgiveness
for sleeping in right from thisin your workout.
But what you do is, you know,when you're talking to him, you
realize how much grace he givesyou.
Well, if God loves you andgiving you that kind of grace,
shouldn't you give yourselfgrace too?
You know, and I feel likethat's that's why I kind of fall

(53:29):
back on and you know I just yougotta give yourself grace.
We're going to mess up.
There's probably a reason.
Maybe you slept in.
You know there's days where youmight hit it hard for 10 days
in a row but all of a sudden,you know you had a late night
with your kids or work.
Your body might have needed it.
Okay, let's move on.
Get the next wind.
Once you get the next wind,stack another wind.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
And that's how you get back on track.
Yeah, that self-doubt is apowerful thing, because it will
it'll rob you of your future,it'll rob you of your ability to
be significant, it'll it'll robyou of everything that you're
supposed to be doing in life,because it just is always there.
It's that voice just speakingto you, and so, yeah, I agree.
I mean, I have to go back andsay what does God say?
That I am?
Does he say that I am?

(54:15):
You know, I'm redeemed becauseof his son?
Well, that's, that's awesome.
You know, all of a sudden it'slike, okay, well, I don't have
to be perfect.
Jesus was perfect, he's goodenough for me, and then that
helps me center myself.
Let's keep moving forward.
I don't want to operate with amindset of fear, that that I'm

(54:39):
paralyzed to move forwardbecause of my fear.
And so you know, we're going tomove forward with boldness and
courage, because ultimately,it's not even me anyway, that's
right.
Ultimately, god's workingthrough me, and so that
self-doubt is addressed, notthrough my own strength of can I

(55:02):
hold on tight enough, but can Ijust be who God made me to be
and be okay with that.
And then you know, as the fearscome, does God say that I am?
Does God say that I am?

Speaker 3 (55:16):
I go back to you know God, when he's on that cliff
and Satan's tempting him withall that stuff.
Right, like you know, you canjump off here and survive.
Like test God, keep testing God.
And Jesus was able to say like,well, it might not be true.
But like in myself, like Ialways feel like whenever

(55:36):
something's poking at me tellingme I'm not good enough, telling
me all this stuff.
Like I always feel likewhenever something's poking at
me telling me I'm not goodenough, telling me all this
stuff, like I viewed as Satandoing the kind of the same thing
you know and, like you said,I've remind yourself.
Who does God say you are.
I feel like that's what gets methrough a lot of times.

Speaker 4 (55:55):
That's awesome.
Um, um.
Since we're on the failure andthe self doubt side, let's just
keep hitting it.
Talk about rejection.
How does rejection play a rolein growth?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Oh man, um, you know it just continues to to shape
you and you know when you'rerejected.
You know I, when I hearrejection, I think of like being
rejected by a girl as a youngas a young man, you know and you
when you finally get thegumption to um to ask that girl

(56:26):
out and she says no, oh boy, youknow that's a slap in the face,
as as a young man, but I thinkthat's part of growing as a man
as well.
Um, you know, rejection issimilar to failure.
You know we get rejected everyday in business.
You know we have jobs we getand we have jobs we don't get.

(56:50):
And again, those are just againlearning moments, learning
moments to get better, andsometimes rejection catches you
off guard and other times, youknow it, it may not, may not as
much, but, um, rejection isagain one of those, one of those
moments that I use to grow andsay, okay, I was rejected for

(57:11):
whatever reason you know, forthis job or or or with this
person, or whatever it might be.
So what did I do to getrejected and how can I learn
from that to?
Um, you know, to move past thatand to get better because of it
.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
Yeah, and I think you said it in previous podcasts
rejection is God's protection.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
That's right.
Yeah, absolutely true.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, and I, you know I view that.
And then on the on the the flipside, you know that's
rejections Well, I use formotivation.
A lot of times you know, um,motivate you and, like Dan said,
you figure out why and then youmove on from it.
But sometimes you got to getback to that rejection to keep
fuel on that fire, just to keepyou going.
And I feel like a lot of timesthat's that's great motivation.

(57:55):
Yeah, you know do I want to berejected again?
How motivation?
Yeah, you know do I want to berejected again?
How did I get rejected?
What did we do wrong?
How can we grow from it?
And then you know the otherthings in life that are a lot
bigger than you know.
You're able to control it.
Sometimes you're not, might notbe able to control that
rejection, you know.
Just trust.
That's not the path for me.
We're going to move on.
We're going to find the rightpath.

Speaker 4 (58:13):
Yeah, absolutely, I like that rejection is God's
protection.
That's so true.
I, you know, if we can't trusthis sovereignty and all of the
situations in our life that aredifficult and hard, and it you
know, like, like that's wherethe trust is built with him and
us is is when it's difficult andwe choose to trust him.
You know, through thosesituations, ultimately our good

(58:36):
is his design and so he's goingto, you know, put us in a spot
where that really is helpful forus.
I deal with that side of itbecause when we're talking about
growth guys, it it's peoplelisten to growth and it's easy
to talk about success stories,but the real growth is happening

(58:57):
when it's messy and dirty andhard and difficult.
And again, I'm just trying togive you know, your listeners
like perspective that you guysare the real deal and you're
normal, normal guys likeeveryone else.
And you know what you're doingis not remarkable in the sense
that you're more skilled thananyone else, You're not smarter

(59:20):
than someone else, you don'thave a, you didn't get a special
ace up your sleeve that someoneelse didn't get.
But if you're willing to workthrough failure and rejection,
if you're willing to redefinesuccess to not be what, you know
, Americans define success asall of a sudden now can define

(59:43):
success as all of a sudden now.
Hey, there's some significancehere.
There's, there's something.
There's something here thatGod's doing with my life that is
different and better and moremeaningful and more impactful
and more powerful than anythingthat I've experienced in the
past.
So you're growing.
Talk about the tension betweenwhere you are and where you want

(01:00:03):
to get, because you're normal,You're human, You've got
self-doubt, You're dealing withfailure, You're dealing with
rejection, You're your own worstcritic.
You can see where I'm at andyou can see the future.
Talk about it.
I know how to get there.
We're going to go step by step,day by day.
We're going to grow, but thetension, the tension of can I be

(01:00:26):
content today and yet stillchange and grow for tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah, that's where we're at.
Right now is, you know, a yearinto this with the podcast and
you know, obviously, beingcontacted by all different walks
of life friends, family.
You know people who have beenimpacted by our show.
Thankfully we have, we havegrander visions ahead to do more

(01:01:00):
.
But man is that stressful, andit's not because I don't think
we can get there, because Ireally, truly do think that
we'll get to where we want to gobeyond our small area and
continue to grow this thing.
But it's how do we get there?

(01:01:21):
Who is in the car ride with usto get there and what's that
look like?
Because this isn't the onlything that we do.
Yeah, that's exactly right, andthat's the bigger challenge that
I face is trying to manageeverything else while feeling

(01:01:41):
this pull and this push to justkeep going, keep going, keep
going.
But I, every day, when I'm ableto take my walk in the
afternoon, at the end of the day, I all I keep hearing, and
maybe it's God telling me justbe consistent, just be
consistent, just just likeyou're taking every step on this

(01:02:01):
walk today.
Just be consistent witheverything that you do and I
will show you the way.
And that's probably been thebiggest thing for me is just
trying to lean more on my faith.
That I I, you know I've always,I've always been a man of
Christ.
I've always been faithful in mylife, but never to where I'm at

(01:02:21):
right now, never to where Ihave.
I have changed in the past,really in the past year, just
having that trust, um, trying togive up some of that control
that I I, you know you try tocontrol everything as an
entrepreneur and as a as afather, as a man, you know, keep
everything in the box.
As a man, you know, keepeverything in the box and just

(01:02:45):
to take a deep breath, let it go, and to take that step.
So how are we going to getthere?
I don't know how we're going toget there, but I'm not as
concerned about about it as Iwas six months ago.
I'm just saying, hey, you know,the right person's going to
come to me today to be on thepodcast in a couple months.
Um, the right situations aregoing to present themselves
where maybe we go into a school,maybe we we do something with a

(01:03:08):
father and a son at a camp.
I don't know what all thisstuff looks like.
We've got all these visions, um, and we'll get there with the
right people, but by taking thatstep every day.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
You can't grow without seeing aperspective for the future.
But to get to that perspectiveof the future you just have to
love the process, the process ofevery day just showing up and
ultimately God's going to leadand guide and direct in.
Whatever that future is, aslong as we stay, yield and

(01:03:42):
submitted to him for sure, andthat process is the hardest part
.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
That's the hardest part because that's the growth.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
That's what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Yeah, because everybody wants that instant
gratification, and I do too, butyou just, you just got to
follow the process.

Speaker 3 (01:03:59):
Currently taking that step with our boys right now in
basketball, trusting theprocess.
Currently taking that step withour boys right now in
basketball, trusting the process.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
That's right.
So success starts to grow,Momentum starts to take off.
It's easy to get lax and lazyand then feel like, yeah, you,
you touched on this at thebeginning.
I can kind of rest on.
I can rest on what I've done.

(01:04:28):
Maybe it was Ben talk about howyou stay grounded as you grow.
Here's the reality.
If you have a growth mindsetand you are consistent, your
life does improve.
Period 100%.
It's going to happen.
Okay, it's, it's, it's acertifiable facts.
So you are going to createmargin in your life and you're

(01:04:53):
going to create significance inyour life.
How do you stay grounded sothat you don't lose your ability
to to be significant, becausenow you feel like I've done it,
I'm good, I've.
You know what?
What got me here was all this,and now I don't really need that
for the future.
How do you stay grounded?

Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
My family, okay, yeah , my kids.
They keep me grounded.
You know they're.
They're the ones that areconstantly saying you haven't
done anything to have, you know,they, they keep me grounded,
but they also keep me motivated,yeah and uh, you know.
So, for me that's, it's myfamily.
It's again showing up every dayso that those kids, you know,

(01:05:38):
see what their dad's doing, tosee what, what, kim, what my
wife does every day, not just in, you know, our physical health,
not in just what we eat, but inhow we interact with, uh, with
people at our church.
you know, getting involved in,uh, helping the homeless and, uh
, you know, providing to thosein need, just setting that

(01:05:59):
example for them, because I wantthem to do the same thing, I
want them to do more, I wantthem to have a bigger impact
than than I can have, and so myfamily keeps me grounded, okay,
yeah, I think the other thing,like kind of part of that
question, is, you know, ifyou're taking one step at a time
and stacking those little winsand you just keep looking

(01:06:19):
forward, I feel like you don'treally have time to look back.

Speaker 3 (01:06:23):
You know what I mean.
Like you look at the end of theday, you're exhausted, You're
not paying attention, but you're, you just feel that you have
that feeling.
And I feel like there's dayswhere you know you might be late
, a little bit more lazy, but ifyou've been on that path for
you know, six months a year,that keeps you grounded.

(01:06:47):
I don't, I don't want to keepdoing this Like I feel right now
, like it's motivating, it's itjust you have that fire that's
in you that just wants you tokeep going one day after another
.
And if you keep taking thoselittle steps and just keep
stacking those wins, I feel likethat momentum is going to carry
you and keep you grounded ontop of your family Cause kids
ground you all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Yeah Well, and I think you know we're all aware
enough of our humanity to to belike, yeah, I screw up all the
time, it's still going to happen.
Uh, you can't get too big ahead when you realize that
you're, you still stink.
So uh and there's nothing wrongwith that, um, I, I'd say for me
, you know, and I again I'm, I'mcoming from a you know a spot

(01:07:22):
where my faith is the mostimportant thing about my life,
that you know, there's coming aday, you know, at some point my
life ends and I do, you know,I'm going to have the
opportunity to stand before God,I'm going to give him a count
of my life, and that day drivesme, it grounds me, it motivates
me because, man, I don't want to, I don't want to displease my

(01:07:43):
savior, and so, um, that's awhole nother, you know, that's,
that's his own topic in and ofitself, but it's a level of
motivation and grounding that'slike man, that's that's way more
important in the future.
That's coming, that's a, that'sa guaranteed date at some point
in my future.
And, and, man, I, I don't wantto show up and be like I wasted

(01:08:05):
your life, right, I wasted thetime you gave me, I wasted the
significance you gave me, Iwasted the skills you gave me,
the opportunities you gave me.
If I look at it like that, man,every day is, it is an
opportunity to do more, to growmore, to continue to, uh, to, to
challenge myself and and others, because ultimately that day's

(01:08:26):
coming for them too.
So, um, going from the the deepto the insignificant, we got
just a few minutes here.
This is rapid fire.
We want a little uh personalityhere.
Uh, coffee or tea, coffee,coffee, coffee.
I don't drink either.
Uh water, only um early bird ornight owl early bird early,

(01:08:51):
early, same um book yourecommend uh, I wouldn't say the
most, but give me a book yourecommend that you've read in
the last few years that you'relike man, this is, this is, this
is great, high road leadership.

Speaker 2 (01:09:03):
John Maxwell.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
That's on my list because of your recommendation.
That's next Play the man.
Play the man.
I don't know that one, markBatterson.
Okay, awesome, okay, look thoseup, guys.
Um, if someone's texting you,what is the most used emoji that
you use, uh, to communicate?
Do you use emojis when you textyeah, thumbs up.
Oh they're so boring I do thefire.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Fire.
Oh, I like that one.

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
Yeah, be tempered, there you go.
Does pineapple belong on pizza?

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
No, yeah, I don't eat pizza.
But yeah, you don't eat.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
You're such a.
What's your answer on that one,maddie?

Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
Um, okay, Up to a year ago I would have died on
the hill that you never putpineapple pizza in your mouth.
And I have a friend her name isPam and she said that I wasn't
living until I tried pineapplepizza.
It wasn't horrible, Was it withham?
It was Canadian bacon andpineapple.

(01:09:59):
So I wouldn't say I'm abeliever, but I did try it.
Favorite way to spend a day off.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Just being with the family hanging out.
You know, being outside whenthe weather's nice, throwing a
ball around and playingpickleball Cool.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
Fishing with my family.

Speaker 4 (01:10:18):
Fishing with your family.
That's awesome.
If your younger self could seeyou now, what would they be most
proud of?

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
Just taking that step , yeah, taking that step of, uh,
you know, just trying to be thebest version of myself, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
I think my family, that's what my I'd be proud of,
the father that I am, I think,at least I hope so.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
That's awesome, I would, I would.
I grew up with a ton of fear,tons and tons of fear.
It still plagues me to this day.
And so, um, having done thingsin my life that pushed me
through my fears, I would, I, Iwould never have expected that
as a eight year old kid.
So, um, so, to kind of wrap uphere, I want to do something.

(01:11:06):
Uh, everyone needs a littleencouragement on their growth
journey.
Uh and uh, you know, what theseguys are doing for all of us as
listeners is encouraging usevery day to keep after it.
And so, if you're, if you'velistened to the episode and
you've made it all the way tothe end, I want you to do
something.
I want you to hop on and, inthe comment section, I want you
just to leave a little sentence,a phrase, a thought, something

(01:11:30):
that tells Ben and Dan thatthey're killing it, they're
doing a great job and that weappreciate the work they're
putting in.
They would never ask for this.
Okay, they're probablyembarrassed that I'm saying it,
but, hey, they made me the hosttoday, so it's their own dang
fault.
Um, so, if you've made it tothe end, uh, drop something in
the comments of this episode andto say, guys, we appreciate

(01:11:51):
what you're doing, keep up thegood work.
Um, I'm grateful for these guys.
I'm grateful that they want togrow.
I'm better for it, you'rebetter for it, we're all better
for it.
Um, um, just tell them that.
So we don't have to be perfect,but we do have to grow.
So let's go grow a little bitevery week.
Thoughts, finish it up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
No, thank you for doing this.
Uh, it was great, definitelychallenged me a little bit.
Uh, you know, in my thinkingwith not not, uh, you know I'd
like to be prepared and Ialready told you I had a whole
list of stuff here anticipatingyour questions and, um, you know
, I wasn't prepared.
So, but I but I think that'spart of it is is just, you know,

(01:12:32):
we try to be authentic and whowe are and what we do, and and
again, everybody's got a storyand you can't you can't see 90%
of them and so, um, you know,for anybody out there who has a
story, who knows someone who hasa story, please reach out.
Um, we've got some amazingguests coming up.
We've had amazing guests.
If you haven't listened to allthe episodes, you know just

(01:12:55):
really appreciate, um, the loveand the support and and all the
messages and the phone callsthat that we've received,
because it, you know it it givesus that confidence that we are
on the right path and that weare on the right journey.
So, you know, we thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:13:08):
Yeah, um, just one thought that I had was cause.
This whole thing's been aboutgrowth and one of the big
spiritual things for me that, um, it's not, it's not a phrase or
anything, but it's a prayerthat I prayed.
Uh, one sermon it was.
If you want God to really useyou, then when you pray, you
know, pray intentionally.
And one of the biggest prayersthat I prayed was, uh, you know,
asking God to use me as histool, right, and when he does,

(01:13:32):
give me that that little earninginside of me of when it's time,
like I know that this is whyGod's wanting to use me.
And you, would you want to growspiritually?
Ask God to be his tool, be hishands, be his feet, and your
life will change.

Speaker 4 (01:13:49):
Absolutely true.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Yeah, you reminded me of something.
We'll try to wrap this up here.
We're an hour and 15 minutescranking along, but one of the
one of the biggest things for methat I prayed before we even
started doing the podcast a yearago was I had a very big
problem of being present, beingin the moment.
We could have a conversationand I would be listening to you,

(01:14:18):
make an eye contact, but mymind was somewhere else because
there's so many other thingsgoing on.
And so you know, my prayer wasGod help me to be in that moment
, to when I'm talking to someoneor I'm doing something, to be
in the moment.
You know we're we're alllooking to multitask and to do
all these different things atonce because we think the more
that we can do, the more we'llget done, the more successful
we'll be, and so I think thatwas one of the biggest things
for me, that that God put me onthat path.

(01:14:41):
To be present, to be in themoment when I'm interviewing
someone.
I don't want to look like anidiot and if I'm not listening
to you and I'm not seeing yourfacial expressions and I'm not
understanding what you're saying, to be prepared to ask the next
question, I'm not being present.
I think this was his way ofshowing me that you want to be
present.
Here you go, and so that thatyou know, as, as you talked

(01:15:04):
about, you know that prayer, um,you know, for me the, the, the
podcast started because God saidand he want to be present,
here's your opportunity.
So, everybody, we thank youagain for listening.
We thank Maddie for coming outand taking time out of his busy
schedule to give us some greatquestions and to give you some
insight on Ben and I.
And again, please continue tolike and to share and to give us

(01:15:29):
the support that you can and goout and be tempered.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
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