BeTempered Episode 58 – Answering the Call: Why Tim Pierson Left Corporate America for the Streets - BeTempered

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Thanks, allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
it's your home, you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatron's come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom showerdoors and many other products

(00:20):
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years,
kitchen's best, the clear choice.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
This is.
Be Tempered.
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, episode number 58.
58.
Today on the podcast, we arehonored to welcome a man whose
life exemplifies servantleadership and unwavering

(01:05):
commitment to communitytransformation.
Tim Pearson is the executivedirector of Bridges for Life, a
nonprofit organization inRichmond, indiana, dedicated to
supporting individuals andfamilies through recovery,
housing assistance and communityengagement.
Tim also leads the Drug-FreeWayne County Partnership and

(01:25):
community engagement.
Tim also leads the Drug-FreeWayne County Partnership,
working tirelessly to combatsubstance abuse through
prevention, education andsupport services.
His initiatives, such as Dinnerat the Lamp and Recovery
Together have become vitalresources for those in need,
offering not just assistance,but also hope and a path forward
.
Not just assistance, but alsohope and a path forward.

(01:49):
Beyond his professional roles,tim is a certified community
health worker and a devotedfamily man.
Alongside his wife, nikki, andtheir seven children, his faith
and dedication to service hadmade a lasting impact on
countless lives in Wayne County.
Tim, your journey is aninspiration and we're eager to
delve into the experiences thathave shaped your impactful work.
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast.

Speaker 4 (02:10):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, man, appreciate you
letting me be here with you and,as I told you earlier, I'm kind
of a new fan to your programand new to getting to know you
guys a little bit.
But just love the work you'redoing and love the dedication to
the faith and the faith messageand trying to bring
inspirational stories to thecommunity and others.
So thank you so much and sohonored to be here, really Thank

(02:30):
you.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
We appreciate that and your story is one, as we get
into it, where people will findinspiration.
I mean, what you're doing isamazing and it's one of those
things that is unseen.
So we appreciate what you'redoing and I'm excited for you to
share that story.
So how we start every podcast,as you know, is we like to go

(02:52):
back to childhood to hear howyou grew up.
So talk about childhood, whereyou grew up and what life was
like as a kid.

Speaker 4 (02:58):
Okay, I'll try to remember back as far as I can,
but I'm from Wayne County, livedhere aside from two years,
lived down in Cincinnati forsome work, lived here in Wayne
County my whole life.
So lived in two places, mywhole childhood, most of which
out in the country, so not farmbut country, and so we lived.
We just lived out kind of closeto New Paris but on the Indiana

(03:20):
side.
But yeah, so life was mom anddad and then three sisters, two
older, one younger, and so I wasa baby until she came along.
I was maybe 12 or 13, somethinglike that.
So, but it was kind of, youknow, what I would describe as
sort of the all-Americanmiddle-class experience.
It was a lot of values-basedinteractions God, family, work.

(03:43):
The order changed maybe alittle bit through the years,
but they were always present.
I mean, dad was a diesel truckmechanic, so hard worker, you
know, never stopped working.
As soon as he got home he'dkeep working.
You know that kind of deal,good man, great dad.
And then mom was a teacher bytrade, but most of the time that
we were growing up she justwould substitute teach every

(04:05):
once in a while, so she waspretty much stay-at-home.
Mom Went back to full-timeteaching after all of us were
grown and then, like I said, twoolder sisters and then a
younger and we were just went tochurch every Sunday.
We had a small Baptist churchwe went to.
My whole pretty much my wholechildhood Went there.
All kind of the normal thingsyou would sort of expect from a

(04:26):
nice, wholesome family that I'mreally blessed with.
So we had dinner at 5 everynight and Mom cooked every night
and family time, family games,vacations, this whole deal.
If Mom and Dad ever fought, wedidn't see it, we'd see them
holding hands, that kind ofthing.
So it was a good experience andany time I kind of reflect back

(04:51):
on it, I enjoy looking back onit.
But sometimes I feel a littleguilty because I was just so
blessed by that experience andyou know, you think about a lot
of the folks that we interactwith now that you see those
foundations that they were borninto that they had no control
over.
Right, that's, the onlydecision in our lives we don't
get to make is what family we'reborn into, and some are just
born into horrific circumstances.

(05:12):
So I try every day to not takethat for granted and be very
grateful for how I came up.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
That's awesome, great childhood.
Why do you think that youregret that, though, or feel bad
about how you were raised?

Speaker 4 (05:26):
Well, regret or feel bad may not be the right
characterization of it, butanytime you have a really big
blessing in your life, somethingthat is as meaningful as what
family I was born into, whereyou got lots of love from mom,
from dad, and you had all yourneeds met.
Sometimes you do take that forgranted.

(05:46):
You kind of forget that thatwas a significant thing that you
got in life that you didn't doanything to earn.
It's one thing.
You get some benefits from thehard work you put in.
Then you can have some level ofpride in that the good pride.
But with that it's like why wasI so fortunate to have that
experience?
But God works everything out.
The good pride.

(06:07):
But with that it's like why didI, why was I so fortunate to
have that experience?
But God works everything outthe good stuff, the bad stuff.
So I've always just thoughtwell, let's just be grateful for
it and try to learn from it.
And I think at the end it'sgiven me a much larger level of
compassion for those who haven'thad those experiences.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, and that's what I was going to say is, I think,
I think, being raised as youwere, that put the compassion in
your heart to do what you'redoing today.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
Yeah, that's how I would look at it Years later,
but yes, true.

Speaker 2 (06:30):
Kind of look at it.
So continue on throughchildhood.
Talk about school a little bit,yeah.

Speaker 4 (06:35):
So I went to Highland Heights School, which is of
course now a doctor's office, inPleasant View Middle School,
which is a church, I think, nowand so, and then just right on
through to Richmond High School,graduating in 89.
And so school was.
I was always a good student.
I kind of always think back onmy high school years.
It was just I was one of theseones that would not go back.

(06:56):
I'd go back in time a littlebit, but not that far back.
High school was just survival.
You know we were.
Oh, I came into high school andI had gained a bunch of weight.
I had bad eyesight since I wasvery little, so I got these
thick pop bottle glasses, youknow, and some heavyset got the
glasses.
You know, mom enjoyed shoppingat Kmart, so we didn't have the

(07:18):
designer clothes, you know.
So the first few years of highschool was a little rough, you
know it's.
You know, not of none of the,the what I would call real
traumatic bullying or anythinglike that, but you know a lot of
getting picked on and made funof this and that.
So but my summer, before mysenior year, then something in
me just sort of said oh, let'schange the narrative here a

(07:39):
little bit.
So I just I think it was 60 or70 pounds I lost in one summer
and got my contacts and ofcourse I was working then.
So it was like, okay, I'll gobuy my own clothes and got a
nice truck and you know, andthen get the girlfriend, and so
I went back into the senior yearkind of a new person at this
point, and so I didn't mind thesenior year a bit.
I kind of enjoyed it and kindof closed the school year out.

(08:02):
I was not, still not, mr Cool,don't, don't get me wrong, but I
was still very much an outsiderand kind of a loner.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
But you know, not in the James Dean kind of way.

Speaker 4 (08:14):
Yeah, it's kind of a little bit of a dork, you know
this kind of stuff, but but yeah, finished out high school there
and somewhere in that senioryear I picked up some an
interest in the criminal justicefield.
I think I kind of can rememberthinking about probation work or
something like that, maybe lawenforcement.
So I went to IU East rightafterwards and started studying
criminal justice and sort of setoff on that path till things

(08:36):
changed up a little bit.
But yeah, so just right onthrough.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
So what in high school, going into your senior
year?
What made that shift?
Do you know?

Speaker 4 (08:43):
I really don't know.
I thought about it a lot.
I'm not sure what piqued thatinterest.
I really don't know.
I knew that.
You know Mom had went tocollege, dad didn't, so there
wasn't a lot of pressure to goto school.
But you know, I had a sisterthat was going over to Earlham
and so there was a little bit ofpressure to what else are you
going to do?
I was already working, so Iknew I was going to work.

(09:04):
But and it was just interestingto me and I liked kind of
learning about those things andhow the law worked and all of
that type of stuff.
So I remember in just a yearand a half that I went to school
.
I just soaked it up and reallyenjoyed it and was interested in
it.
Still still am at some level,uh.
But yeah, I don't know whatreally triggered it, but off I
went.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
So you go off to school, but then something
changes again, right?

Speaker 4 (09:29):
Yeah, we had that next.
You know, I kind of sort oflook at it like that going
through, you know, younger years, childhood, everything was kind
of fairly normal, and so youjust kind of go up and you're
following this typical path.
And then I got sort ofpresented with an opportunity
that came very, very unexpected.
It sort of came about.

(09:49):
I was one of the jobs I had.
I was always working two orthree jobs since I was 15 or so,
but one of the jobs I had wasworking at the movie theater,
which was just the funnest jobyou could ever have, you know, I
mean a big $2.60 an hour, Ithink it was at the time,
whatever minimum wage was.
But you got free movies and yougot free Coke and popcorn and
all this stuff.
But I met a guy there Matt washis name, and he was the exact

(10:13):
opposite of what I was.
I mean, this guy was justtrouble.
I mean he was skateboarder, Imean the purple mohawk,
literally the whole bit, youknow.
And so he came to work and youwouldn't have ever thought that
the two of us would have becamefriends, but we became very,
very close friends quickly andso I was kind of he was maybe

(10:33):
three years younger than me, soI was kind of drawn to a little
bit of the trouble side that hewas getting into and and so we
would get into some trouble.
We were, you know, we wereushers, ushers at the movie
theater, but we we referred toit as the bouncers.
So the manager gave uspermission to get rid of anyone
that was not following the rulesand we did very regularly so if

(10:55):
they had their feet on theseats or they back, talk back.
When you could actually do that.
You know we're throwing peopleout of the movie theater.
Friday and Saturday nights wasjust, you know, just the heydays
.
It was fun.
So me and this guy, wedeveloped a great friendship.
So well, when I turned 21, Ididn't do, or I didn't think I
was going to do, what most dowhen they turn 21.

(11:15):
The idea of drinking andalcohol was not ever on my radar
, never even thought about it,never thought I would ever touch
a drop of it for sure.
I think somewhere in our, myparents' house there was a
bottle of wine that they maybehad held on to for a keepsake or
something.
But every once in a while I'dsee dad grab a beer from the
neighbor when he sort of offeredhim one just to be kind.

(11:37):
But we just, it just wasn'tpart of our life.
And so, but when I so, when Iturned 21, I had no plans of
that at all.
But Matt, who was only 17 or 18, he said, hey, do me a favor.
He said, would you go overthere to the Big Red Liquor or
whatever it was?
And he said, can you just buythis for me?
And I thought, well, this islike a rite of passage, this is
cool, I'm hanging out with thecool kid now.

(11:58):
And so, yeah, I'll buy him somebooze.
And so I.
I did.
Fortunately, the statute oflimitations is up on that minor
not planning on running foroffice, so we're good.
So I went there and I bought hima case of I think he was
drinking some little King'scream ales or something, and and
, uh well, when I handed it tohim he's, he's like, well, hey,

(12:19):
why don't you just come over tothe house?
And you know his parents wereout of town and he said, just
come over and you know, justhave a couple with me, and I was
.
He talked me into it prettyeasily and we went over, just me
and him.
We just hung out through thenight and just drank, drank,
drank, drank.
And so, um, kind of bringingthis back around to my
transition out of college intothe other field, so that we

(12:40):
drank all night and I just got,you know, first time drinking
and it was just like a cigarettedog, I'm throwing up everywhere
.
And so I ended up somehow inhis dad's minivan and I'm like
laying across the front seats.
And so later that morning whenhis dad comes home, first time I
ever met his dad, his dad opensthe door and I basically just

(13:01):
fall out.
I puked in his van and myhead's just hanging there and
I'm thinking this guy's going tokill me, you know.
And um well, he didn't kill me.
What ended up happening just inthe next couple of months was
that he offered me a job andwanted me to come work for him.
I don't know what it was thatdream to but years later he
would tell the story He'd be.
He'd be the first time I evermet Tim.

(13:23):
I knew he was going to be agood salesman and of course
nobody knew what the story was.
But we met and he was workingat an insurance office, a large
Fortune 500 company, and I neverthought I would do anything
like that at all.
But I knew that he had successwritten all over him.
They had a nice house.
They didn't really have fancycars because he didn't spend his

(13:45):
money on stuff like that, buthe had little side businesses.
And my buddy was in sales too,in a different field, and he's
like driving motorcycles,corvettes, and I mean I was
making three bucks an hour atthe movie theater with a couple
other jobs mowing grass and allthis stuff, and so I sort of saw
it as an opportunity to moveforward, saw it has an
opportunity to move forward.
And I think that was in what 93, 93 when I started and Mark was

(14:14):
his dad's name, and Mark toldme he said if you come to work
for me and do exactly what Itell you to do, he said, you
will make $50,000 this year.
Now this is at 21 and in 93.
He said if you don't, I'llwrite you a check for the
difference.
He said I guarantee you that'swhat you'll make, but you have
to do everything I say.
And so I was just drawn to himmore than I really was the
career, because I just likedeverything that this guy was.

(14:36):
I mean he was just, he wassmart, he was wise, he was witty
, he was successful, he was agreat Christian man.
I mean just had a great family.
And so I was just.
I did exactly that.
I just everything he told me todo, I did.
So I had a really unorthodoxstart into the business but I
ended up left school and about ayear and a half, maybe two,

(14:57):
close to two years in, I droppedout of school and just came to
work in the insurance businessselling door-to-door sales,
doing door-to-door insurancesales, and it just worked, ended
up sticking with that samecompany for what?
23 years 23 years.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, so it was a good ride.
Did you have to clean out hisvan?
I don't remember much aboutthat.

Speaker 4 (15:19):
Next, day I remember doing him a lot of favors.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Oh, I'm sure.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
I had to penance there somewhere.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
I'm sure, but it was good.
Wow, so 23 years in theinsurance business, so life's
pretty good, right?
You eventually get married.

Speaker 4 (15:39):
Yep, talk about your family a little bit.
Yeah, back during that season Ihad maybe been in the business
a couple years and we got a girlI had met at the movie theater.
We ended up falling in love andgetting married.
So the first couple years therewith the insurance business was
really good and I startedachieving and doing well.

(16:00):
And so there's kind of a twistto the story there, because I
didn't get to work with Mark forlong Cause he he ended up
passing away unexpectedly just acouple of years into our work
together and that just the waythat came about.
It was all kind of tied to atthe same time when we found out
we were expecting with our firstdaughter.
So I mean, kind of how thestory goes is so we were, uh,

(16:23):
for that two or three years Iwas working with Mark there in
the insurance business.
We're just booming.
I mean I was the youngest agentin the company nationally.
I mean the second closestperson in age to me in the
office was 30 years, my senior,I mean.
So I'm just 21 year old.
What do I know?
Kind of deal and we're breakingnational records.
I mean I mean we're justwinning trips, he's getting

(16:45):
promoted, I'm getting promoted.
I mean we're just moving.
And so during that season I gotmarried and I mean life's just
going really good.
We've got kind of all thisstuff going now, bought our
first house and got the nicevehicle, and you know we're off
now for the pursuit of the dream, you know, and so but the so my

(17:06):
wife at the time time she endedup I think she had a bad call
for something ended up going tothe doctor and through that
found out that we were expecting.
And so I can remember when Igot that news as much as I want
to even tell my family Mark wasthe guy I wanted to track down
because I was just like this islike this is the rite of passage
, it's like I'm gonna be a dadnow.
This is so cool.
I got to, and well, so he wasout of town that day with his
family on a trip, and so weended up going to my parents

(17:29):
that night and we're, you know,sitting there.
It was kind of one of thosemoments that, however many years
ago that was, it sort of getsetched in your mind forever, you
know.
And so we're telling my mom anddad and great news, everybody's
excited, we're in the middle ofhugs and we're just so excited,
you know.
And phone rings and it was Matt,my friend, calling to say that
his dad had been in a fataldrowning accident just a couple

(17:51):
hours prior.
They had went down toBrookville and it was just I'll
spare you the details, but itwas just a horrific scene and
his family was there andobserved and watched it all
happen.
It was just terrible.
So that that was, you know, oneof the first um big challenges
that came along, where it waslike, okay, all right, I kind of

(18:12):
grew up sheltered, you couldsay, maybe it just wasn't
experiencing too much of life'snegative stuff.
And then when that happened, itwas like, okay, different lens.
Now things are a lot different.
So things were a little roughthere for a little while.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
But well, especially someone who was a mentor to you
for sure.
And, um, you know, here's ahigh point of your life, you
know, expecting your first childand and he's the first guy you
want to go to, and then you findthat out.
I mean, that had to be to be adifficult time.
It was.

Speaker 4 (18:45):
It was tough.
That two or three-year period.
There had a number ofchallenges in it.
Just a number of months priorto that we had had my we were
just engaged at the time but herbest friend, who was her
roommate, she was murdered herein town and so she had this.
We had just came off the heelsof that and Mark was like this

(19:05):
great support for her and for meand you know, it was just this
horrible experience and so I hadlearned to kind of lean on him.
I remember kind of thinking thefirst time he met my dad, I
remember kind of feeling alittle guilty because I was sort
of like treating him sort oflike a father figure and I was
like, dad, you're still numberone kind of deal, but these were
two different men.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (19:25):
Mark, my dad was super silent and quiet.
Mark was just all of this andso, yeah, so when he was out of
the picture it was.
It was rough.
I mean I had had, obviouslysome sad moments and, you know,
been down like anybody, but thatwas the first time that I
really experienced some level ofdepression, not clinical but
just situational.

(19:46):
But it was tough.
It was tough to get up and goto work and I remember just we
used to sit in the office atnight working.
He would never let me in theoffice during office hours
because there was so muchnegativity there.
He just wanted to keep me fromit.
So we'd be in the field all dayselling and then in the evening
we would meet back in theoffice and just spend hours

(20:06):
together working on proposalsand building sales scripts and
you know, and just practicingand role playing and all this
stuff.
And so I can remember justsitting there in that office and
by myself, just you know, kindof these dramatic, you know,
sitting outside of his officedoor just sobbing, you know, it
was just just, it was just like,wow, why did that hit me so

(20:27):
hard?
And it was just I.
I knew what that feeling was ofhaving somebody so close to you
that it's just gone.
And of course, the um, theempathy I had for his family was
just, you know, overwhelming,because they were just amazing
people.
So so, yeah, so that that waskind of tough but we kept kind
of kept pushing forward and thenwe, um, of course, ended up
having our first daughter,taylor, and then she was moving

(20:49):
along pretty good, kind of gotback into work doing what I was
trying to do.
It ended up that I got kind ofmoving up the ladder still and
ended up in the position thatMark was in and so kind of
filling his shoes a little bit,and got the pleasure of hiring
his son later on to come intowork for me.
And then he is still there tothis day as one of the district
managers, the office, followingin his dad's footsteps uh, jesse

(21:12):
harrison, so proud of him andum, so, but yeah, so we once we
had the baby then we were abouteight months in and then kind of
next challenge hit us.
That's when my father passedaway unexpectedly, so when she
was only eight months old,taylor.
So you know, that kind ofbrought in this other set of
like okay okay, life isn'tperfect, you know, and so.

(21:32):
But that was, you know, that wasjust sort of an unexpected
thing out of nowhere.
I don't talk too much aboutthat.
I mean, it's still fresh, right.
It's like 28 years ago freshright.
It's like you just can't hardlyeven think about going down
that path with it.
But yeah, so that was kind ofdifficult, but then we just kept
you know, god's grace is alwaysthere and keep pushing through

(21:52):
and just stuck with the businessand just kept moving up the
ladder.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Yeah, so in a short period of time you lost two very
, very important men in yourlife.
How do you pick up the pieces?
I mean I?
I know you don't have a choice.
The choice is to keep movingforward, which you did, um, did
you find other mentors?
Did you just confine inyourself and just say, hey, this

(22:18):
is on me now?

Speaker 4 (22:20):
Oh, I definitely found, you know, what would end
up being the best mentor of mylife, which is my pastor, pastor
Holdeman from Lighthouse.
And so Ralph Holdeman, his son,is the lead pastor now, but
he's still on staff.
So I mean God just inserted himin my life just when I needed
it.
I mean we were kind of in aseason where we were out of

(22:42):
church a little bit and so wehad started kind of, you know,
thought, let's get back aroundand start.
You know, taylor was just maybea year old at the time, so we
were kind of like, you know, I'mthinking I've got to be a dad
here.
And me and Mark's son Matt, wehad kind of got on this drinking
spree for a three or four-yearperiod now where we're drinking
pretty regularly.
Pretty year period now wherewe're drinking pretty regularly,

(23:09):
pretty heavily, you know three,four or five days a week kind
of deal.
And so once she was born it waslike okay, I'm just not going
to do that anymore and I'llmaybe come back to that later
how that played into what I'mdoing now.
But I just said, okay, I meanwe were drinking, you know vodka
five nights a week and just Isaid I'm just not going to do
that anymore and I just stopped.
And so Matt had a little bitdifferent story.
He didn't quite stop at thatmoment.
He dealt with it for a numberof years, but anyway, so we,

(23:33):
what was I at here?
So when I had the baby and wesaid now we're just going to
turn and do something a littlebit different, it just was like
there's still some missingpieces there.
So we thought let's do somechurch looking.
And so we went and visited abunch of churches and first time
we ever went out to Lighthousewe've been out there for 26, 27
years now First time we everwent out there it was like, okay

(23:54):
, this is where God wants us tobe.
And the first conversation Iever had with Pastor Holderman
was just life-changing.
I mean, just one of thosemoments, and it was like, okay,
thank you God, this is a guy.
And so he became my dad andhe's my spiritual dad and I
think about him like a father,for sure, and we're just super
close.
But he, but he filled that void.

(24:15):
He was, he was all of that andmore.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
And so, yeah, he's been just you know probably
single-handedly the mostinfluential person in my life,
without a doubt.
Isn't that amazing how, throughthe loss of you know, at the
time where the two mostimportant men in your life you
just said he came into your life, you know, at a vulnerable time
when you needed him, but evenmore powerful than the others.
That's amazing.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
Yeah, exactly, I remember my first couple
experiences with him.
One was when we first went tothe church.
I just had like some questions.
I was very skeptical and it wasa different denomination than
we had grown up, and I just hadall these questions and I wrote
down on the visitor card I wantto talk to the pastor because I
had some questions.
And yeah, I remember he calledme the next day.
He said, yeah, you had somequestions, can I come by the

(25:05):
house?
And yeah, he came by the houseand we sat down and had a great
conversation and the two orthree things that I was kind of
hung up on that I thought thatmaybe that they were missing,
that they were off on a littlebit.
He showed me real quickly no,this is right.
And I was just like, okay, Icould see this guy's got some
value to offer me, I mean mainlythrough the Word, that he knew

(25:26):
the Word and I kind of thought Iknew it.
So I knew I needed someteaching of the Word.
So I saw him as very valuablein that respect.
And then, from an advicestandpoint, I mean I could tell
our whole community you wantadvice, go see Pastor Holtman,
he's got it.
But I remember before I knewhim very well.
We had just started attendingthe church and as I was getting

(25:47):
back into the job there was somedynamics there that was going
on.
Long story short, mark, when hewas there we had sort of an
arch enemy.
There was kind of a guy therethat just didn't like us, we
didn't like him, and so we werealways kind of butting heads.
And so when I went back to work, the guy that they took to

(26:07):
replace Mark's job was thisindividual who did not like me
at all.
He just didn't care for me, andso he made life very, very
difficult for me there andalmost made me want to leave the
business.
And so, well, what happened wasI decided I want to transfer to
another office, and we were, wewere going to move and go
somewhere else, and so that wasin motion.
And then some other thingshappened and I needed to come

(26:29):
back.
So here I am in the spot whereI have to go to this individual
he shall remain nameless and Ihave to go to him and basically
say can I have my position back?
And it was like I just do notwant to do that, because we had
came to almost physical stuff attimes.
It just got so tense he wasjust, he just treated me
horribly.
And so I remember I was like Idon't know if I can do this, so

(26:52):
maybe I'll just drive to Muncieevery day for it, because I just
my pride is not going to let mego apologize to him.
So I went to my pastor and Ijust said here's the situation
One of the first many times Isaid if you, you tell me what to
do, and I'm going to do it,whatever it is, I'm going to do
it.
Um, before you tell me, justtell me.
And of course he just uh, uh,talked to me about grace and

(27:15):
forgiveness and he said you knowyou need to go into his office
and just say is there somethingyou've done wrong that you need
to apologize for?
Address that, do that.
I mean he's just giving me thebiblical way to handle conflict
and then ask him to forgive you,and then that's it.
I said, well, how about his?
He's supposed to say, hey, I'msorry for all the trouble I gave

(27:36):
you.
He said that's not up to you,tim, that's for him.
And so it played out about likeI expected.
I gave him a pretty genuineapology and I really was sorry
for some of the things I'd done.
And this joker literally leansback in his chair, kicks his
feet up on the desk, and he'snot about to apologize to me for
anything, and he just sat thereand just made it, made me beg

(28:00):
for it, basically, and I didn'twant to drive to muncie every
day to work, I want to be hereclose to my family, and so I
just took it and just swallowedmy pride and um.
But you know, years later funnyturn of events it ended up that
I ended up having his position,he ended up getting demoted
working for and not that I'mhappy about it, but at some
point down the road I had to endup terminating this guy because

(28:22):
of stuff he was doing he wasn'tsupposed to be doing.
So it was kind of like justicefound its way, you know.
But I said all that just to saythat Pastor was jewels of
advice and wisdom, and so I'vebeen in his office many times
saying give me, give me give mesome of that stuff, so I need it
.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, that's called high road leadership.

Speaker 4 (28:42):
Take it to the high road.
Take it.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah.
So at some point, though, therebecomes another shift in your
mind where, I don't know, areyou getting too comfortable?
Is there a calling?
Something happens and you makea big change in your life.

Speaker 4 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Well, there's no other way toput it than it was a calling.
I mean, it was just God callingor pulling me out of where I
was into something else, and itwasn't kicking and screaming.
I mean, he had given me enoughglimpse, enough of a glimpse of
what I should be doing with mylife, that I was eager.

(29:19):
So, yeah, after you know, 20some years of doing that and I
really wasn't there were somethings that were happening that
I was a little not happy with.
I mean, I had been with thisone company long enough where I
you know, it's kind of like Ihad my kind of way of doing
things and and they were rockingthe boat on some things.
So we had some differences ofopinions, but nothing that would
have taken me out of the fieldat all and nothing that would

(29:43):
have made me leave the company.
I figured I'd be there foreverand so.
But yeah, it really came aboutfrom.
There was at the time, of course, just several years back, there
was a drug task force here intown that is kind of renamed
something.
It's been regrouped andsomething different now, but
guys that you may know pat tudorand jamie mostiano, these guys

(30:04):
that were on this task force andwell, they were going to the
different schools in the countyand they were doing this
presentation about drugs and allthis kind of stuff and it was a
really kind of like a dramaticpresentation.
They took a little heat for it,but it was a good message.
I mean, they're like rolling acoffin into the gymnasium and
they're, you know, kind of thescared straight kind of stuff
that some people say not a goodidea, don't do that anymore.

(30:26):
I don't know Whatever works, Isay, but so, but my kids had
seen that and it was kind of thetalk of the school for a little
bit.
There we were at Northeasternand but I didn't see the
presentation, but I was justhearing so much about it.
I was just intrigued by it.
I don't even know why I was sointerested.
I was just very interested inthat and I was really interested

(30:47):
in meeting the guys who did itand not I wasn't feeling any
kind of judgment against themfor doing it.
They took a little backlashdoing that kind of presentation,
but it was like I didn't feelthat at all.
I was just curious to meet them.
I didn't know who they were andso I remember I'm like
literally out on salesappointments in Richmond.
I got like my suit and tie onand I don't.
I'm just like I want to findthe drug task force.

(31:09):
I have no idea who they are,and so first stop was the jail.
And so I go in the jail and Iyou know, I've never been to
jail before, I don't know reallyhow it works.
So I'm just knocking on thewindow and I'm like I want to is
the drug task force here, can Italk to them?
And of course she's like, well,who are you, you know?
And so I got a shirt and tie.
It's like I'm not liking themin a foreman or something you

(31:29):
know.
I'm like I don't know.
I was like okay.
So I left, went to the citybuilding of course, walked in
there, knocked on the windowjust trying to find the drug
task force, you know.
And they're like, well, who areyou, you know?
And and so here comes out,walks, uh, jamie mostriano,
who's a kind of a monster of adude, you know.

(31:51):
He comes out and he's like well, who are?
Said, well, I kind of told youthe story.
I said I'm just curious, youdid a presentation at my kid's
school.
I just want to talk to you guysand learn.
I don't really know why I'mjust I feel compelled to do it.
Can I buy you all lunch one dayand just hear what's going on?
He said, sure, so you know,really, really good men.

(32:22):
And we just sat down for acouple hours and they just told
me all this information aboutdrugs and all the stuff that was
happening in the community thatI have lived in my entire life,
and I was just blown away.
I think that was a year wherewe were either number one or
number two in you know, the mostoverdosed deaths per, you know,
per capita.
And it was just like all ofthis was happening just right

(32:45):
within a 10 minute drive of meand I'm just clueless.
I mean, I know I lived kind ofin the rural part of the county
and but still it was like howcould I not know that it was
this bad?
I can just remember feelingcompelled.
And after that lunch I pulledPat Tudor aside and I was like,
and he was a Christian man and Isaid listen, I don't really

(33:05):
know why I'm here, but I'mcompelled.
I'm compelled to do something,and I don't know why.
And I sell, I sell insurancefor a living.
So help me, what?
What's next?
What do I do?
And he's like, well, I don'tnever had anybody asked me that.
And he said I don't know whatto tell you.
He said except he said there'sa meeting this week why don't
you come?
Come with me as a guest whichwas a drug-free Wayne County

(33:31):
meeting.
You know, this has been 10years ago now maybe.
And so I just went to themeeting and from that meeting on
.
I just started meeting people.
I mean I would just be in thesemeetings and just literally
just saying, all right, lord,out of these 50, 60 people here,
who's my next move?
And just like this, one personto the next person.
The first one I met at thatmeeting was Stacy Steele, who

(33:53):
worked out at the Boys and GirlsClub.
She's since passed away, butshe was leading the Drug-Free
Wayne County group.
I said can we meet?
I met just one person at a timeand I just started to plug
these people in just so that Icould learn, because I'm
thinking I don't know anythingabout this world at all.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
And you don't know why you're doing this and I
don't know why I'm doing it, andso you know.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
It sort of then led to, you know, across those
stepping stones, meeting people,and I ended up and went back to
school to kind of head down thesocial work field and then
that's where I kind of made thetransition and took the plunge
and left the insurance business,but you went from the comfort.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
I'm sure things were pretty good at the insurance
business.

Speaker 4 (34:36):
Yeah, it was nice, it was good.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
To social work.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
Yeah, it was jumping the deep end man.
It was like I was having ablast, but it was different.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, it was different.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
Yeah, I mean, the first role I got after I
graduated I was working for acompany called Lifeline Youth
and Family Services.
That covered the four or fivecounties around here was my
territory, and we were workingwith families that had had DCS
involvement, where the childrenhad been removed from the home.
And so my job whatever thetitle was I forget what it was,
but family consultant, I think.

(35:11):
My job was to work with mom ordad and help them get their kids
back.
Well, so for me, I was, youknow, very goal oriented.
I mean you know you spent yourlife doing commission only sales
.
I mean you know you got yourbusiness owners.
It's like, okay, we just getstuff done.
So so it's like, okay, sohere's the goal, here's what DCS
says you have to do to get yourkids back.

(35:32):
You got to a, b, c and d let'sgo.
So it's like, okay, you need ajob.
Oh, okay, we'll get your job bythe end of the day.
Get in the truck, let's go, andso we'll do applications.
I can get them employed and andyou know, two days later they
don't show up to work and it'slike, what did I miss here?
Uh, so there was so much morehappening there than what I
thought, and I was super greenin that world on how things

(35:55):
worked, all these systems, allof these ridiculous barriers
that are present that preventpeople from moving forward and
it was, it was fun, I had a tonof fun.
So I'm doing supervised visitsand with families and sitting at
the library with a kid and amom and just I.
I'm just soaking up this world,just learning as much as I can

(36:17):
about how all this stuff works,with in my mind thinking I still
don't know where I'm going withthis, but I need to know more
to be able to figure out what mynext move is.
So I just just learned andlearned and learned.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
What did your wife say when you said hey, honey,
I'm going to make the jump?
From discomfort to social work.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
Well, she's always my number one fan, so she um,
we'll maybe click back to that.
So this is, uh, this is wifenumber two, uh, from the from
the previous but uh, so, butyeah, she's just great.
So she, she's big on educationand was going back to school
herself later in life to, um,you know, she had worked in the
post office for a long time andwanted to go back and become an
occupational therapist and hassince started her own business,

(37:01):
and so she's very much into that.
So she was she was probablymore pushing me to do what you
want to do, do what you're.
You don't seem to be happy inwhat you're doing, so change the
gear, do something different.
And um, so, yeah, she was a big, big fan.
So, you know, we had somelittle adjustments to make.
And you don't get into socialwork for the money.
That's a disclaimer for anyonetrying to get in the field you

(37:25):
better have a heart for it.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Some social workers may go from social work to
insurance.
You went the opposite.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
Exactly Might be a better move some days.
But yeah, so it wasn't too bad,but it was great and it was
just a lot, a lot of learning, alot of education and it was.
It was a ton of fun.
I was enjoying it, for sure.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
So you're learning.
Uh, there had to be somechallenging situations and
stories that you learned about.
That would be way differentthan anything you had done for
your prior 20, some years in theinsurance company.
How are you able to disconnectwhen you went home from some of
those stories that?
That would be a challenge forme.

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah, it's such a good question and, um, I'm still
kind of sometimes baffled bythat.
I'll give you kind of a funnystory.
Like, um, when I was, um, whenI was working for that company,
they had um, I forget what theywere called, but they were like
sort of like a little pick-me-upsession or something they would
have.
So it was kind of like and Ikind of I hesitate to say this

(38:23):
because it feels like maybe I'mkind of poking fun and I don't
mean it this way.
I just want to come back toanswer your question.
But so during this meeting theywould basically just I think it
was on a Monday morning and itwas kind of like this real kind
of feel good kind of.
You know, we go around the roomand tell me about your weekend
and how were things and how areyou.
It was like self-care.
That's what I was trying.
It was a self-care meetingwhich I really didn't feel like

(38:45):
I needed.
I just thought why are wesitting here for two hours?
We have things to do.
You know this kind of deal, andso there's people talking about
you know that they had aproblem with their cat that
weekend or something.
And again, I'm not trying topoke fun at it.
It was just, it was this kindof a softer world than what my
mindset was.
So I wasn't, I didn't need anyof that.

(39:08):
It was like I'm good, I'm good,and so, as I would deal with
these situations, I have justfelt like I've just had this
gift.
I guess, if you will, maybesome wouldn't think of it as a
gift where I can just distancemyself from that.
I think I just see it as adefense mechanism.
I know that I have to do that.

(39:29):
So people are leaving thiscompany and other companies in
the social work field.
They're leaving by the drovesbecause of all the impact it has
on you and it's a very realwhat it does to an individual's
mental health.
I mean working for thatcompany's.
First time I ever heard of the.
What do they call the days off?
When you just want to?
You just kind of want a day offbecause you need it.
Personal day, yeah.
Personal day, okay.

(39:50):
Well, when the business I camefrom it was, you were just
straight commission, so you'dtake as many personal days as
you want, but you're not gettingpaid.
So I didn't take too manypersonal days.
So you know, just kind of takingcare of yourself and I, I so
appreciate that for sure, andagain don't mean to make light
of that because I know it's veryneeded, but there's, you know,
mass exodus of all these mentalhealth workers because of that.

(40:11):
But for me it just wasn't.
I just I was okay, just to turnthat off.
And so even now and I really doconsider that a blessing that I
can distance myself from thosethings, again probably
subconsciously doing it, becauseI know that I need to do that

(40:33):
At the end of the day it's anissue that I can't control and
so you know, you see, kind oflike you know definitely some
heartbreaking situations andkids in some tough spots, and I
guess maybe sometimes I mightcome across a little cold and
calloused about it because Idon't wear it too heavily, but I
don't find it to be helpful IfI take it on and it affects me

(40:54):
so much that I can no longer beeffective in helping you, then
let me just turn that switch offso that I can keep being
helpful to you.
If I burn myself out because I'mso worried about everything
that's going on, I just carry it, then what good am I?
So I enjoy being able todistance myself from that, but

(41:15):
it's tough because it is a bunchof mess and a bunch of sadness
for sure.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, so eventually you decide to make a change
again, but now more so for youstarting an organization,
correct?
Yeah, so talk about that shift.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Well, that originally kind of came about through a
ministry, through our church, sowe had um, um and and again,
everything.
Always, when you look back, youcan see all these little fine
moments where it's like, oh,that's what happened during that
moment.
In the moment you don't thinkabout it as being that
significant, but one of thosemoments for me was when we were

(41:56):
I was leading a Wednesday nightgroup at the church or I think I
was just substituting forsomeone who couldn't be there
and I'm kind of doing someteaching or whatever, and we
were talking about evangelismand I remember, you know, I
prepared my notes and we weretalking all about this and I
remember somewhere during myteaching, I said something to
the effect of you know, we as achurch, you know kind of one of

(42:18):
these self-righteous statements.
It's like we as a church needto get outside of the walls and
go out into the streets and doevangelism.
You know, that's kind of whatcame out of my mouth.
Of course that sounds good andright.
In that moment, I mean, it waslike the Holy Spirit said okay,
buddy, when's the last time youdid that?
And I thought, oh, never, I'venever done that.
I always sort of thought Icould check that evangelism box

(42:45):
off by being a good Christian inthe workplace.
And I mean I was the guy thatalways had a Bible in his office
and you know, I mean would praywith people and people always
knew I was a Christian but Inever really went out like that.
So from that moment on, fromthat teaching night, something
said you got to go out and startdoing that, doing some outreach

(43:06):
.
And I wasn't exactly sure whatthat looked like.
But what kept coming into mymind week after week was to do
it on a Friday night.
To do it on a Friday night, goout on a Friday evening and just
meet people and talk to people.
And it was about November,december somewhere in there.
So the idea of that was not tooappealing because it's kind of
cold, you know it's light.
So I sort of kind of dismissedthose notions I'm having until

(43:29):
probably about February,somewhere around the first week
of February that year, I'mliterally just laying in bed and
just woke up and just said Ithink it's like 11 or 12 at
night and I told my wife.
I said I have got to go out.
I mean, he's calling me to goout, I've just got to go.
So I just got up and gotdressed, put on some warm
clothes and went to grab thethermos, went to Speedway, got

(43:53):
some coffee, stopped and boughtsome little Debbie's or whatever
.
I didn't.
I didn't know what I was goingto do and so I just went out and
just started walking up anddown main street.
And I mean it's 12 o'clock atnight, february, it's cold.
I figured this is going to takeabout five minutes and I'll
realize no one's out here.
It was just the exact opposite.
There's all kinds of people out.
I'm like, why are you not athome, you know, but of course

(44:16):
many of them didn't have a home.
But and I just had the just themost amazing night of ministry.
I mean I met tons of people andjust got him some coffee, went
back to Speedway a couple oftimes to get the thermos
refilled, and I mean I just waslike, okay, I see now what I'm
supposed to be doing, but justpraying for people and
ministering, and so that startedthen an every Friday night

(44:38):
tradition, and so I went maybe,oh, four or five weeks on my own
and I'd stay out till two inthe morning or whatever, and
until finally one of my buddies,dwayne Harrison, who was a is
it really a co-founder?
Him and his wife with Bridges,with us, he said.
He said what are you doing onthe Fridays?
You're going out by yourselfand he thought he needed to come

(45:00):
protect me.
So he's like I'm coming with you.
And little did he know that Godwas working in his life as well
.
And so the two of us then endedup teaming up and we ended up,
over the course of the nextcouple years, then built a large
group of people that came andwe continued to do that on
Fridays and we it ended upmoving from handing out coffee
and a little Debbie's to webring the grill out, and we set

(45:23):
up on 12th and Main, over hereand just right outside of the
bar, and just grilled hamburgersor hot dogs and eventually we
got some ladies on the team thatwanted to cook a little bit
more for us.
So they're bringing outcrockpots, we're running
extension cords around the backof a building.
We're feeding like 100, 120people a night at 11 o'clock at
night all the way until the barclosed at 3.

(45:44):
And so, but through thatexperience then, me and Dwayne
again looking back, you canreally see it now, but you know
God was bringing the two of ustogether and our families
together for something a littlebit greater.
So through that ministry then,as we were talking to people and
ministering to people, we werejust trying to become more aware

(46:04):
of what resources were in thecommunity so we could get them
pointed in the right direction.
And that's really what justsort of birthed us deciding
maybe we could create somethinghere where we could help people.
And so we just began about atwo-year process of just sitting
at the table every few weeksplanning and developing what we
thought Bridges for Life wouldand could be, and the four of us

(46:27):
plus my daughter Taylor, wewould just sit down and plan and
finally decided to pull thetrigger on it and kind of get
the nonprofit thing going, andso it was like a whole new world
now.
I don't like the sound ofnonprofit.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
I know what that means, especially from a
commissioned sales guy.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
Yeah, that has to be terrifying, but we, you know,
turned out really really good.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
What surprised you most on those Friday nights that
you maybe didn't anticipate,phew.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
What a great question .
Many things, many things weresurprising, but probably what
most took me by surprise was thewarmness and the openness, not
that we were giving out, butthat we were getting back.
It still is shocking to me out,but that we were getting back
Still is shocking to me.

(47:16):
Just really really great peoplejust meeting tons of wonderful,
wonderful people that were veryopen to us and I believe now
what that is is that you know Idon't know where this would be
found in the Bible, but it'scertainly biblical and a
God-like principle is that Godjust seems to put in others

(47:38):
through the power of the HolySpirit, just puts in them a
trust coming back to me that Ineed to be able to help them.
I need you to trust me, and sopeople will develop a deep trust
in you quickly, and it may noteven be reciprocal.
I may not be trusting them thatmuch, but they're willing to

(48:01):
put their whole life in my handsfor a little while, and so you
know that is definitely throughthe Holy Spirit.
But that surprised me.
I always thought that I hatesaying that population, but you
know, those that areexperiencing homelessness or
those that are suffering withaddiction.
I always sort of thought ofthem as more standoffish, leave
me alone and every day, stillpleasantly surprised that that's

(48:24):
not the case.
It's like there's somethingthere that says I do need help.
And if you approach people verygenuinely and lovingly which is
how we were doing it, with nojudgment, and you can tell
people there's no judgment allday long, but they they know,
and so I don't have to announcethat to people.
I just hope that they'll feelit that it's like I'm really not

(48:45):
judging you.
Believe me, I have to convinceyou, I'm not judging you.
I love you and I want to helpyou, and so I think when they
sense that they just are, aredrawn to you.
So we just had some of theanybody that was part of that
Friday night group and there wasprobably 40 different people
that helped at some level.
Every single one of them wouldreflect back on those years that
we were doing it and the way wewere doing it as just an

(49:07):
amazing time in our lives.
We had so much fun and we justhad a blast and we'd walk the
neighborhoods first meetingpeople, and then come back and
set up the grill and stuff andyeah, we just had some amazing
encounters and saw God do somepowerful stuff and some great
miracles too.
Were you ever afraid?
No, I can't say as.

(49:28):
I was ever afraid.
I mean I don't.
I should probably have a littlemore fear sometimes, maybe a
little.
But yeah, I don't get takenback too much.
We weren't.
I was never worried about it.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, because you know, I think the stigma in
society is, you know, homelessaddicts.
You know those are people tofear, to be afraid of, kind of
out of sight, out of mind.
I don't want, you know you're,you're going out into the
community, downtown Richmond 11o'clock at night.
You don't know who's out there,but you don't care, you just

(50:01):
want to help and give back.
And that's amazing because Ithink well, I know more people
would have a bigger fear of hey,out of sight, out of mind.
I know there's homeless peopleout there.
I know there's people addictedto drugs.
I can't do anything for them.
You took the opposite approachand said hey, maybe I can help

(50:24):
one.
Right right and look at whatyou've done.
So what is Bridges for Lifedoing now?

Speaker 4 (50:30):
And let me back up to the previous statement.
I don't intend to try to soundlike some superhero or something
I previous statement I don'tintend to try to sound like some
superhero or something.
I just I haven't.
I didn't find that to be usefulto be afraid to approach
somebody.
Let's just do it so.
But yeah, I appreciate that.
So, bridges Now, so what we?
What has kind of happened isthat when we first kind of
developed it, we were reallyjust sort of trying to figure

(50:51):
out okay, so how exactly are wegoing to do this?
We originally thought we wouldprobably be a little more
focused on families with kids,and that was largely in part
because of Dwayne and his wifeJamie's involvement, because
they were the real familyelement of it.
They did family ministry at thechurch, worked with the youth,
worked with the kids.
That really wasn't my lane ormy wife's lane.

(51:12):
That really wasn't what we did.
So we sort of thought we'd leaninto that a little bit.
And then Dwayne and Jamie endedup answering a call they had to
answer, which was to start achurch down in Franklin County,
and they started a church downin Laurel, indiana.
So they had left us to go thereback in 2020.
And they're just doingphenomenal, by the way, and just

(51:33):
have an amazing ministry downthere in Laurel, a church right
downtown in Laurel called ReachCommunity Church.
So when they left, it shiftedthe gear a little bit because it
was kind of like, okay, theywere the real strength and the
backbone for family kind ofstuff, whereas I was a little
more working with theindividuals in addiction or
homelessness or whatever.

(51:54):
So we shifted the gear a littlebit there.
So really what we started doingwas just on an individual basis
, just trying to figure out okay, let's try to help this guy and
let's see how did we help him?
What are the things that I didthat were helpful?
And then the next guy, let'shelp him.
And we started to see somecommon things that were like

(52:16):
okay, these are things that arealways going to be helpful, and
then there's things that willsometimes be helpful based upon
that individual.
And so I tried to focus a loton the things that were always
helpful.
For an example, if someoneneeds their identifying
documents major problem in thatin that population group.
So, we can help with that, avariety of different things like

(52:38):
that.
Let's just build a relationship, all this stuff.
So from there then we startedto kind of package the programs
a little bit so that we couldkind of put a name to what it is
that we're doing.
So we started moved the Fridaynight outdoor ministry to more
of a sit-down type meal once wepicked up a location.
So for a couple years we wererenting space from the Reed

(53:00):
Church which is now called theReed Center.
We were in there for a coupleyears so we used the big
fellowship area in there andbrought our meal inside to where
we had people come in and sitdown and kind of
restaurant-style kind of diningexperience or whatever, so they
could come and sit down and getconnected.
So we should sort of packagethat.
And then the folks we werehelping in addiction that ended

(53:23):
up kind of growing into what wewould call the recover together
program or the building togetherprogram now the carpentry
apprenticeship program.
So those are to help kind ofpeople in recovery or trying to
get into recovery.
And then the the homelessoutreach operation reconnect we
call it is that direct outreachand support for those that are
in that kind of situation.
So we just tried to.

(53:44):
So there's a lot of things inthere that are kind of best
practices, things that makesense that you would do, and
then there's some things inthere that are unique to the way
we go about doing things, andwe just try to put all that
together in a little package sothat we could duplicate it for
one and also so that we couldsell it for another, so that we
could say this is we needsupport to do this work, and we

(54:06):
can't just say we help thehomeless and expect someone to
say, oh, here's a check.
You know, you got to be able toshow this is how we help them.
This is the process that we useto do it and these are the
steps that we take and these arethe results that we have, and
then you can hopefully get somefunding to keep things going.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
So give us some stats , some Wayne County stats that
people may not have any clueabout.
Let's see.

Speaker 4 (54:32):
So maybe a little disclaimer, given that I've only
worked with this population inWayne County.
I mean, I've read and studied alot about it and talked to a
lot of people that have workedin other things, but my
experience is limited here andso I've tried to mitigate that
by being a good student of thepeople I serve.

(54:54):
So I'm always asking questionsand I want to know everything
about what your life is like.
So could I need to learn, CauseI don't.
I've never been homeless andlived that experience myself.
So so when it comes to kind ofsome numbers and stuff so
homeless population, for example, if you were to have asked me,
you know a decade ago when I wasfirst getting into it, how many

(55:14):
homeless people or ishomelessness even an issue here,
I probably would have reallyminimized that and thought not
really.
I see a guy down by Krogerevery once in a while holding
the sign up, and you knowthere's a handful of them around
and so and then you move intokind of a little more scientific
approach with it, which is donethrough an initiative called

(55:36):
the Point in Time Count, whichis a HUD, a national HUD
initiative where on a 21,24-hour period during the year
there's an attempt to actuallymake a physical count of the
homeless population in yourcommunity, so that's called the
Point in Time or the PIT count,and so that's done in January,
usually around the 24th or soevery year, and that is a
national effort for anycommunities that want to

(55:59):
mobilize to do that.
So the pick count would saythat there's about several years
back when they first started it.
It was hard to get a good count, but the last couple years that
number would land somewherearound 80 or 90.
I think last year it was 91that we got.
But that is a very specific andsomewhat narrow definition of

(56:19):
homelessness that HUD uses.
That may not be how you or Iwould describe it.
So to say there's only 91people that are homeless in
Wayne County is a ridiculousstatement, Because, number one,
the population is very transient, so it's not the same 91 this
year as it is next year.
They're constantly moving andgrowing, and so you think, well,

(56:40):
what is the real number?
Well, that number is verydifficult to find, for sure.
But if you looked at just whatour work does like last year, we
and this is just the team ofjust a few people, literally
just a few people.
I mean our team interacted with213 people that were homeless
the day we met them.
Now, that's just our smalllittle group and that's just

(57:02):
Wayne County, really, morespecifically, Richmond.
So you think there's 200 thatwe found.
So I don't know what the numberis, but it is in the several
hundreds for sure.
I mean, and we're meeting newpeople every year, and this year
I think we've alreadyinteracted with 120 or something
like that people.

(57:22):
So, yeah, so it's hundreds,hundreds.
So that's probably a number.
Sometimes it might take peopleback a little bit and you know
we don't have tent cities here.
I mean, this isn't like a bigmetropolis where it's very clear
where all the homelesspopulation are.
It's not clear at all.
They're very, very hidden.

(57:42):
Most of them are in abandonedhouses or in encampments that
you may see, some you may notsee.
They're in sheds behindpeople's houses.
They're staying in their caroutside a friend's house, or
they're just sleeping in theircar somewhere else.
Or they're staying in their caroutside a friend's house, or
they're just sleeping in theircar somewhere else, or they're

(58:03):
they're just scatteredeverywhere and so they're.
It's hard to kind of say therethey are, because they're all
over the place.
So but yeah, I think of easilyinto the hundreds for sure four,
five, six, seven hundred,probably at any one point in
time would you expect that no?
what has been your perception ofit from kind of outside,
looking in with you?

Speaker 2 (58:22):
Uh, you know, I don't know that I I know maybe this
is bad on me ever gave it awhole lot of thought.
Um, you know, I would seepeople, especially where our
shop is on on South ninth street, see people walk by and think,
man, I wonder if that person'shomeless Um been to other places

(58:44):
where I you can, you can tellthat that person's homeless and
and um, I'm.
When I hear 200 people, thatkind of shocks me, like I would
have never guessed that in thiscommunity again because, like
you said, they're kind ofembedded, they're hidden in
certain spots or whatever.
Um, and I feel bad for sayingthat because, um, you know, I

(59:07):
feel like there's gotta be morethat I can do to help you and
there's gotta be more that maybeour local government can do to
help in a way.
And maybe they are, I justdon't know, I don't know that.
So that was one of the bigreasons why I wanted to have you
on here was to share thosestats, because there's probably
a lot more people like me outthere who either turn a blind

(59:29):
eye to it or just don't know.
And so that's why your story isamazing.
That you would go from thisnice, comfortable living to
putting yourself out at 11o'clock at night, going till two
in the morning, feedinghomeless people and having those
conversations to make thatimpact, to try to help to change

(59:50):
their lives, told me when wemet there, you know, a month or
so ago, you talked about theprogram I can't remember what
it's called about for addictswhen they're coming back, trying
to get back into the communityand doing some construction
project.
Can you talk about that alittle bit?

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
Yeah for sure.
Um, back up just slightly tothe individual who's leading
that program.
Uh, jeff Holthaus.
Um, another one of those guyswhere you kind of meet somebody
and you're like, okay, thisone's good, this is a good guy.
And so we were working at ahelping at a warming station out
there with Carl Reinhart andothers, and Jeff just showed up
one day wanting to help and justfrom the moment he came out

(01:00:26):
there to help, it was just like,okay, this guy's on a mission,
he's got, he's up to somethingand he was helping.
He was helping quite a bit andso, you know, through the coming
weeks and months we forged agreat friendship and he's like a
brother and he came in to helpme with bridges so he's, you
know, kind of works there withme now and so for that first
year we're just working anddoing the normal work we're

(01:00:48):
doing.
And and he had had kind of thisthought and he could, of course,
articulate a lot better, but hehad this vision, that of all
these houses that are aroundhere, because of his experience
as a 30-plus year carpenter hehad his own remodeling business
for 30 years here in Richmondand so kind of specialty in
older homes and I think he saidhe remodeled 400 and some

(01:01:11):
different houses there in hiscareer.
So he had always had thisthought that I could go around
to all these houses and just fixthem up, because we have a
housing crisis.
And we're, you know, dependingupon what study you look at, I
mean Wayne County is maybe 7,000different housing living units
short of what we should have andway short on income subsidized
type housings and housing units.

(01:01:31):
And so he thought, well, I'lljust go fix these places up.
And of course he you know hisbody said no, you can't do that.
And so, um, he ended up justreally seeking the Lord to
figure out what to do with thisthought he had.
And so where he ended up was hesaid, well, instead of me to go
in and fix them up, I'd like toteach guys how to do that.
And so that ended up reallynarrowing us down to what

(01:01:54):
population group?
So it was a group of guys inrecovery.
So that program BuildingTogether that's been around for
just about a year now reallycame from the idea to say how
can we get these guys on a pathforward and give them some
skills and give them anopportunity to get into a great
field a field that has a hugelabor shortage and help them to

(01:02:15):
learn the skills that they needto get a new start in life and
get on the path forward.
So we got some houses donatedthrough the county and that
program was funded throughopioid settlement funds, which
was a great use for thosedollars, because that's what
they're for is to help thosepeople that were hurt by those

(01:02:36):
atrocities.
So we received some kind ofstartup funding for that and a
few houses that were just youknow they were.
We paid for them what they wereworth zero because they were
just boarded up, healthdepartment condemned and you
know just that Richmond has alot of and so they gave us a few
of them and Jeff just we webuilt this program and Jeff just
is an amazing teacher andmentor for these guys.

(01:02:59):
So they typically are comingout of at least a 28-day program
.
I mean, we don't have a setnumber of days that they need to
be sober, but they got have alittle bit of sober time under
their belt for sure.
Usually the guys have 60 or 90days, something like that.
And and we've developed apartnership here with the

(01:03:20):
Centerstone RecoveryTransitional House, so a large
part of the guys that have beenin the program are living there
at that facility because it's athree-month transitional house.
So it just works out reallywell.
So it's very much arecovery-focused program.
So there's a lot of recoveryelements built into it.
But largely what's happening isthat they're learning how to
remodel houses from the groundup and so and Jeff is like just,

(01:03:43):
he's like the Mr Miyagi ofcarpentry- I mean so every nail
and every hammer is a lifelesson and he just beautifully
has transformed these guys'lives.
So we we had to work through afew wrinkles early on trying to
get the program developed right.
So you know, we had a few guysfall out at the beginning and so

(01:04:04):
we've tweaked quite a bit, butso far it's been really great.
We've had three guys thatgraduated.
It's a six-month program, sothree guys that have graduated
this year and two of them wentto work.
I mean they graduated and thevery next week they went to work
for uh, smorelli, you know, youknow, great builder here in
town I mean jobs they could nothave gotten.

(01:04:24):
Um, they learned and some ofthem had a little bit of
experience, but most they didn'thave any real experience.
They just were kind of goodwith their hands and they had.
They had some giftings for itand then jeff just just taught
them how to do it and they'reredoing the house.
So we've got one of the threethat's completely done.
The other one's close to doneand, yeah, so far so great.
It just transformed their livesand the guys are provided six

(01:04:50):
additional months of clean time.
So that's a lot in the recoveryworld.
Got you six more months of nouse and you know, and we pay
them during the program.
So they got a little bit ofwages that they've earned and
they built some greatrelationships with us.
We've laid some other recoverybricks into their foundation and
then they have learned how todo stuff and I'm not the

(01:05:13):
carpenter, so I'm alwaysimpressed with guys that can
build.
I'm like me and Jeff would walkthrough these houses and I'd be
like you sure we want thishouse.
Of course I look at it.
It's like this is a dump andJeff would look and be like, oh
yeah, I want this Cause he couldsee, you know he could see what
he could turn it into.
That's a great gift he has.
So, yeah, so, and they'rebeautiful and turned into
beautiful homes and and theseguys have just really been

(01:05:34):
transformed.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
So so what an amazing program to take people in
recovery, to take a home that inmost people's eyes probably
should have been torn down andto, to put that work into it, to
transform it back into a homethat that someone can live in
and you're you're helping tothat addict to or that person in

(01:05:56):
recovery to get their life back, to get it back on track.
That's pretty powerful.
That's a that's a pretty awesomeprogram, um, very, very unique,
um, I think so, all right, whatyou're doing is awesome.
You're you're hit your truecalling for sure.
And, um, I know you need help.

(01:06:18):
I know there's financial needsout there, so how can people, if
they want to get involvedwhether, uh, getting involved
with whatever program or gettinginvolved financially how can
people help?

Speaker 4 (01:06:32):
Yeah, Well, any, any number of things I mean
financially is always good,because these programs take they
take a lot of money.
Um, and getting someone fromhomelessness to the path forward
or in addiction out, there's agreat cost to that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
And um there's, we don't apologize for that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:51):
I mean an average person who's homeless costs
society about $38,000 a year.
We've discovered a path thatfor about $1,100, sounds like
sponsoring that way, but that'swhat our cost is per person that
we bring an individual out ofhomelessness and get them housed
on the path forward.
It costs about $1,100 and about10 or 12 hours of time.

(01:07:12):
So there's cost in that as well.
But from a financial standpoint, that's always donations are
always going to be put towardsthat people could donate to a
specific program, just donate tous generally.
Uh, we have a lot ofsponsorships for our Friday meal
program where someone cansponsor the meal for 294 bucks
for the week.
It feeds a hundred and somepeople and provides other

(01:07:33):
connections for them.
So we're feeding them prettycheap but nice meal and so, yeah
, folks can donate specificallyto programs or just generally
speaking to us and we'll do thatthrough the website.
Do it through the website yep,which is Mybridgesforlifeorg.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Mybridgesforlifeorg.
Okay.

Speaker 4 (01:07:52):
And then volunteer-wise, like a Friday
night our other programs don'toffer.
There's some opportunities forvolunteerism there, but our
Friday night program is alwayswelcome for volunteers.
We have a lot of groups thatcome out student groups and
church groups and businessgroups that will come out and
sponsor a meal and then bring ateam out to help serve.
So we always welcome folks tocome and help us on a Friday too

(01:08:13):
.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
That's pretty awesome , man.
I want to ask you one finalquestion.
So when you're in a dark moment, like when you lost your dad
and you lost your mentor, or anyother time in your life when
things have been tough, or maybeyou've helped someone who's
homeless and they can't helpthemselves, and no matter how

(01:08:34):
hard you try is there a Bibleverse, is there a quote?
Is there something that youlean on that helps you get you
through those tough times?

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
Oh sure, well, I love so many different things, of
course, but I love the quote andI can't credit it to my pastor
because it was said by someother guy that wrote a book by
the same title, but I love thequote that just simply says that
every setback, is a setup for acomeback, just a great reminder

(01:09:03):
to us that there's always hope.
There's always hope and so, nomatter how far it is, what's
that real old song's got a lyricin it I think about the cracks
are good because they let thelight in, kind of thing I mean.
So it doesn't matter how badit's gotten, there is always a
path forward, and if you can'tfigure it out for yourself,

(01:09:25):
that's what I can help you with,that's what we can help you
with, to help you see what thatpath forward is.
But yeah, I love that Everysetback is a setup for a
comeback.
That's pretty cool, and there isa book by that title by the
original Willie, somebody thatactually said that.
My pastor has said it many,many times so I give him a
little credit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
That's great, ben, you got anything to add?

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
I got a bunch there's a couple times over here Just
sit here and think so it's goingto sound like I'm rambling, but
two different things that Ithink about.
I kind of knew this is ourthird podcast today and each one
kind of hit me different, butthis one was the one that I knew
I was going to kind of strugglewith and like I was over here
just thinking, and there's twodifferent parts.
So the first part is on thehomeless part, where you talk

(01:10:07):
about 200 here in Wayne County.
I've only been working here forlike a year so I don't feel
like this is anywhere near likedayton, like when.
But there's a place there wherewe serve, called target dayton,
and basically they bus peoplein from all the different parts
of dayton to eat.
You know.
So think how big wayne county isand you know I don't see as

(01:10:30):
many as that and just listen tothose families that you don't
see.
Like I never see families onthe street corner in Dayton, but
there at those homelessshelters there's tons of them.
And I think I've told you thestory before about we were
serving Lisa and I were with thechurch and it was kind of like
the restaurant, like you weretalking about how you guys have
the restaurant set up and you'dhave people that would come and

(01:10:52):
they'd serve and I just rememberserving this one family and you
sit back and you listen andthey had kids and Lisa and I
didn't have kids at that time,but they were probably talking
like six, seven-year-olds andthe kids were very quiet, didn't
talk at all, but the adults aresitting there talking, and one
was talking about, yeah, wedidn't get to the shelter quick

(01:11:13):
enough last night, so you know,they slept under a bridge and
just like hearing those kinds ofthings.
And then, I don't know why, butwhen you're talking about 200
and when you were talkingearlier about how many of you
are here in wayne county, youknow, if we bust all of them in
I I, you said hundreds, I canjust think thousands, you know,
and I think that's a realisticnumber.

(01:11:34):
I mean, um, a lot of the placesthat we go and like the glass
that we replace and stuff thebig thing, squatters like well,
why are they squatting?
Well, they don't have a placeto go, you know.
And so that was the first thing.
And then the I was you, justthe quote that you just said.
And then, talking about therecovery.
My brother in law that's whathe passed away from was opioid

(01:11:58):
addiction.
He was gone for a year, and hewas gone for a year to get in
rehab, trying to get back, andthe last conversation he had
with my sister-in-law was thathe couldn't get clean and so he
kept trying to find a job.
Couldn't find a job?
Well, you couldn't get on apass.
So what do you go back to?
Right?
And so those programs like that, they don't get government

(01:12:22):
funded the way that they should,because people are trying to
get back on track, you know, andso I don't know.
I just can't thank you enoughfor all the different things
that you're doing.
It's such a, such a blessing.
If you change one life, you'vechanged thousands.
And just the selfless act thatyou do, from starting in

(01:12:45):
insurance and then now going tosocial work, where it's not a
money group so many times.
Everybody thinks advancing inthis world is by going after the
dollars.
Well, I'm taking the next stepin my career.
I'm taking the next step in mycareer is by going after the
dollars, you know.
Well, I'm taking the next stepin my career.
I'm taking the next step in mycareer, like I just I can't
thank you enough For sharingwith our listeners.
You're going to change a lot oflives, I know, with, hopefully,

(01:13:05):
funding for your programs, butalso maybe it will take some
people to look in the mirror,like how can I change stuff in
our town?
How can people change stuffhere in Wayne County?
How can you change stuff in ourtown?
How can people change stuffhere in wayne county?
How can you change stuff wherewe live in preble county?
How can we change stuff inmontgomery county?
Like it's just, I hope this isreally eye-opening, though, yeah
well, I appreciate that andsorry about your brother oh no,
I mean, it's tough well, acouple things that you were

(01:13:28):
talking I think are just soimportant.

Speaker 4 (01:13:30):
Is that you mentioned tell me again what you said,
that that he said.
He said I want to get clean butI can't something.

Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
So he went and got clean, um, and basically he
couldn't find a job, is what itwas.
And then he, when he couldn'tfind a job, then he went back to
his addiction and then at thatpoint it became something where
he couldn't overcome.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
Yeah well, if you look at, uh and this has been
probably one of the most, um,eyeopening things that I've
experienced and that's that'sbeen my whole journey is just
looking at this issue and theseindividuals through a different
lens.
But if you, when you look atthe emotional side of this, um,
of this group of people, I meanthere's, there's a lot happening

(01:14:14):
there, um, you're talking about, you know, we talk about like
some myths and stuff.
It's like you think, okay, sofor one.
We just think these people justneed to go get a job right.
Well, for one.
40, 40 to 60% of them do have ajob for one.
So there's that.
And then, secondly, you look atthe mental health side of it.
I mean you have two thirds ofindividuals that that are

(01:14:34):
experiencing homelessness have adiagnosed mental illness.
25% of them have a diagnosedsevere mental illness such as
schizophrenia.
So there's some very realemotional barriers there.
And so early on, I wouldinteract with someone who was
using drugs.
They're a person who uses drugsand I would just say here's the

(01:14:58):
answer Just stop doing it right.
I mean it's just kind of in oursimplistic minds it's like just
quit doing that right, and it'slike that would be just as easy
for them to say to me well, thethings you're doing in your
life that aren't good for you,quit doing them.
And even Paul can figure thatout, right.
He that aren't good for you,quit doing them.
And even Paul can figure thatout right.
He said I do the things I don'twant to do and I don't do the

(01:15:19):
things I know I should do.
So when you look at thatemotional side of it, the
observation I've made is thatit's a very individual situation
and everybody's situation isdifferent.
Okay, for sure, but what isrampant among the population,
what is epidemic in thepopulation, is high levels of

(01:15:39):
shame and hopelessness.
That's what they all have incommon.
And so now they may be on adifferent place on that spectrum
of how hopeless do I feel, howmuch shame am I feeling, but it
is always very, very present.
And then when you so you'relooking at what is it going to
take for them to get out of thisand the fortitude it's going to

(01:16:02):
take for them to get on thatpath forward.
I mean, the terrain of thatpath is altered greatly by their
level of emotional turmoil thatthey're experiencing.
I mean, from people who areadult, active users that you
have 80% of them that weresexually abused as a child, most
of them before age six, changesyour lens a little bit.

(01:16:24):
It's like you start to see thatindividual as someone that's
hurt and they get stuck in thatspot Like you talked about with
your brother.
It's like I can't find my wayout and even if I can get a
little clean time under my beltnow, I've got a couple guys I'm
working with now that are justcoming out of the jail.
I mean they have no identifyingdocuments.
They've got now a record that'sgoing to make job search not

(01:16:45):
impossible but difficult,Finding an apartment that's
decent to live in not impossiblebut very difficult.
Where am I going to get thedocuments?
I've got to get the firstmonth's rent.
I got to get the deposit I get.
All of a sudden, all thisstarts coming at them and
they're just like whateverglimmer of hope I had is gone,
and so it.

(01:17:05):
Folks get just stuck there andso you know, just kind of last
point on that.
So what I, what I found, isthat when you look at that shame
and that hopelessness and kindof where they're at on that
continuum of how bad is this,for me it really comes down to
kind of a personalresponsibility thing, because
they could be experiencing theirblight because of some really

(01:17:26):
bad decisions that they made.
They could be experiencingtheir blight because of some
really bad decisions someoneelse did.
Oftentimes it's a littlemixture of both.
You know there's a little bit.
But the way that they viewtheir situation changes the
dynamic.
So are they owning it at leastat some level to say I know I've

(01:17:48):
got to do some stuff, but ifthey're just being a victim and
a lot of blame, then there's notmuch hope out until that
mindset changes a little bit.
So that's where some real mentalhealth supports, you know,
really play in and that's whyI'm glad like recovery programs
now are usually dual diagnosisprograms, so they're addressing
mental health issues as well asthe substance issues as well.

(01:18:10):
So but yeah, it can just be avery it's a real tough hole to
get out of, so need a lot oflove and support to do it and
some real practical help too.
So but yeah, appreciate sharingthat.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
And people like you.

Speaker 4 (01:18:22):
Yeah, well, I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
People like you to take that step.

Speaker 4 (01:18:25):
And there are tons of us around here.
You had the wonderful CarlReinhardt in here, and I can go
through the list of people,people, people that just pour
into these population groups andwe're we're glad to have it,
but we need more, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
Yeah, tim, your dedication to serving the
Richmond community is trulycommendable.
Your efforts have not onlyprovided essential resources to
those in need, but have alsofostered a sense of hope and
resilience within our community.
Your story is a testament tothe power of faith, perseverance
and compassionate leadership.
Thank you for sharing yourstory, thank you, thank you for

(01:19:00):
what you're doing.
I hope that there's more thanone person out there who's heard
this story, who's maybe been onthe fence or maybe didn't know
about what's going on and theprograms that are out there that
you're doing.
That can really make a trueimpact on people trying to get
back into living everyday lifein a home, having a job, being a

(01:19:26):
productive member of society,and so I thank you for that.

Speaker 4 (01:19:30):
Thank you Appreciate you guys.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
Everybody share it.
Get it out there.
People need to hear this andknow what's going on in our
community and we appreciate Timand all he's doing and all those
on his team and go out and betempered.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Thanks, allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
it's your home, you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatron's come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom showerdoors and many other products

(01:20:04):
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years,
catron's Glass the clear choice.

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BeTempered Episode 58 – Answering the Call: Why Tim Pierson Left Corporate America for the Streets

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}BeTempered Episode 58 – Answering the Call: Why Tim Pierson Left Corporate America for the Streets