BeTempered Episode 63 – A Nurse, A Mother, A Survivor: Susan’s War Behind the Smile - BeTempered

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, Dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thanks, allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
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(00:26):
Kitchen's best.
The clear choice.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
This is Be Tempered.
What's up everybody.
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, episode number 63.
63, rolling right along.
Today's guest is someone whosestory is both heartbreaking and

(01:04):
inspiring.
Today's guest is someone whosestory is both heartbreaking and
inspiring A true testament ofresilience, faith and the
strength it takes to overcomelife's unseen battles.
Susan Preble grew up facingenormous challenges.
In her teenage years she wasuprooted from the only home she
knew, moved to a new town and,in the same season, battled
anorexia and was diagnosed withscoliosis.

(01:25):
But Susan's story doesn't endthere.
She walked through thecomplexities of a marriage and
motherhood, including a 20-yearmarriage to a man battling
severe pornography addictionWhile raising two young boys.
She fought emotional andspiritual battles that many
can't even imagine.
Emotional and spiritual battlesthat many can't even imagine.

(01:48):
A quick disclaimer this episodetouches on sensitive topics,
especially around addiction andits impact on marriage and
family.
It may not be suitable foryounger listeners, but it's a
conversation filled with hopeand encouragement for anyone
walking through similarstruggles or searching for
healing.
Today, susan is a registerednurse known for her energy,
compassion and wisdom.
She carries unseen scars butradiates perseverance,

(02:13):
redemption and the healing powerof faith.
Susan, welcome to the BeTempered podcast.

Speaker 5 (02:20):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
We're excited to have you.
I know you are extremely excitedto be here.
No, you and I met through somemutual friends and you know, it
seems like every time I meetwith someone, they always say I
don't have a story.
I don't know why they said I hada story and you sat down and

(02:42):
said the same thing and I thinkit was.
I don't know why they said Ihad a story and you sat down and
said the same thing and I thinkit was.
I don't know, an hour, maybetwo hours later I was like are
you kidding me, susan?
You have an unbelievable storyand I'm gracious for you to come
in here because I know that's achallenging seat to sit in and
I know there's anxiety.

(03:03):
It's a challenging seat to sitin and I know there's anxiety,
um, but I hope, as you havereflected on the questions and
the conversations that you and Ihad and that you've had with
many of your friends and yourboys, uh, and your husband, that
you recognize that your storywill help someone out there
dealing with many of the samesituations that you have dealt

(03:25):
with and are are, you know,continue to deal with in your
life.
So keep that all in mind as youtell your story, um, because
it's powerful.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
Yeah, thank you, I do think.
I think that is one of theproblems in general with people
is they?
They don't think that what theyhave endured is is that
important, and so we don't share.
You know, we don't.
We don't get that what theyhave endured is that important
and so we don't share yeah.
You know we don't get that outthere and there's probably a lot
of people that will listen tothis that have weathered similar
things quietly and they justdon't think it's that big of a

(03:57):
deal, you know life's hard Geton with it type of thing.
So, yeah, I definitely felt thatway and even preparing for this
, I felt like I'm not reallysure that this is going to rock
anybody's world.
But a friend of mine thismorning, when I was texting
people and saying hey, please bepraying at this time, said
somebody needs to hear this.

(04:19):
And so, you know, because myprayer was, please empty myself
of me, because one of myweaknesses is, you know, making
sure it plants, making sure Ilook good, making sure I sound
right, and then all of a sudden,like where's the spirit?
Right, he's just sitting therewatching me ride my horse over
the cliff, you know.
So, um, yeah, I mean that thatwas a real encouragement of just

(04:40):
all right, holy spirit.
Do what you want to do.
Yeah, just all right, holy.
Spirit, do what you want to do.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:43):
It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
It's amazing that power for sure, especially when
you, when you just let go andyou give it all up.
I, you know, past couple ofweeks I've went through a big
transformation with my faith,with some journeys that I have
went on, and so that's where I'm.
I'm trying.
I'm the same way as you.
You try to control everything.
You try to put on this facadeof everything's okay and, um,
it's okay that it's not right,and it's powerful when you share

(05:08):
that.
So how we like to start everypodcast is we want to start from
the beginning.
We want to hear your storygrowing up and then we'll get
into your adulthood and talkabout all those things.
So talk about where you grew upand what life was like for you
as a young kid.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
All right, um grew up in a seven people in my family,
five kids and I was number fourout of five.
My father worked with RostrumPrima but it got transferred
around a lot in our youngeryears and by the time I was born
we were in Michigan and at thatpoint my two older brothers, my

(05:47):
sister and I were all withinabout five years of each other
and my parents' plan had been tojust have this gaggle of kids.
But my mom and dad and I, whenwe lived in Michigan I was about
18 months old, were in a reallybad car accident that took my
mom out of commission forseveral months.
She was in a coma and you knowthe report to my dad was if she

(06:09):
comes out of this, you may havea fifth child here.
You know to raise type of thing.
So that slowed their wholeprogress down of having children
and it was five years laterthat my youngest brother was
born.
So at that point then we movedto Iowa and for two years and

(06:30):
then Pennsylvania.
So by the time I was seven,that's where we were, that's
where we landed and those werekind of all of our growing up
years, age seven to 16, you knowI was there and you know great
family, mom and dad were a team.
You know I was there and youknow great family, mom and dad
were a team.
You know Discipline was neverheld back.

(06:52):
You know you make a decision todo something that has
consequences, you're going topay the consequences.
You know, pretty certain we hadthe meanest parents in the
world, you know type of thing.
But they really really focusedon our faith and our family and
qualities about people that theyfelt were important Honesty,

(07:16):
being part of your community,helping in your community.
Not everything's worth a dime.
Sometimes it's just worth yourtime.
You know, and my parents werevery involved with things.
Dad was always involved withthe Lions Club, which was a
service organization then or youknow whatever.
We spent a lot of ChristmasEves in very smoky nursing homes
with vets, you know, sitting onlaps and coming home smelling

(07:39):
like cigarettes and you know.
But that was really importantthat they invested that in us so
that we would understand what.
What strengthens a communityand what makes a difference.
And probably Well, I would saydefinitely.

(08:01):
You know you learn those thingsfrom your parents and you see
them walk them out.
You don't necessarily do theright thing, you know, at the
right time.
So there were a lot of bumps inthe road there and I think, no
matter what how safe your familyis, there's the outside world
and things are going to happento you that your family may be

(08:23):
completely unaware of.
And so while that time frame ofthe 1970s was a fantastic time
to grow up, I mean you know yourmom said summer vacation
goodbye at eight o'clock in themorning and don't come back
until six.
I've got things to do.
And you just took off.
You know I mean you were justgone.
You know you may walk fivemiles to a pool or go riding

(08:46):
across a Creek and go up a Hill,and you know I mean things that
you know today you really can'tlet your kids just disappear
like that you know, Um, so itwas really a special time, but,
um, and I treasure it, and um,my, my siblings and I were close
, even my youngest brother, eventhough he was.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
we always called him kind of the afterthought you
know, you're just kind of ineverybody's way now you know.

Speaker 5 (09:11):
But all of those, all of those challenges good and
bad, you know, I think pulled ustogether even more as a family
and you knew, even if youcouldn't share everything that
was happening outside of thefamily circle with people, you
knew you had their love andtheir support and I think
sometimes it got you throughthose secret things that you
went through that you wouldn'tshare with anybody else because

(09:33):
that was a safe place at leastto go to, type of thing.
So super, super thankful that Ihad that safety net and that
they instilled those things inme how long did it take your mom
to recover?

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Did she fully recover from that accident?

Speaker 5 (09:53):
You know I was 18 months old when it happened, so
I would have never been able totell you I noticed a difference.
My father would always say youknow there was a shift.
She was just different afterthat, not worse, not better,
just her personality changed.
I mean, she had prettytraumatic brain injury and you
know, one of the things thathappened in the accident was we,

(10:15):
we drove this, we always droveVW vans.
My dad was six foot seven, soyou know he just needed space,
so that was always what we drove.
And we were going through anintersection and got T-boned.
Somebody ran a red light andthe van was pushed up against a
telephone pole.
Both my parents came out of thecar.
Apparently, I was ejected andthe van then fell on top of my

(10:37):
dad and he said you talk aboutsuperhuman strength.
He said I couldn't breathe.
So he said, every once in awhile, just muster enough
strength and push that up enoughthat I could take a breath and
I'd let it back down.
Well, my mom was on the otherside being crushed every time.
He did that.
You know he didn't know that.
I mean he didn't walk aroundwith guilt on that necessarily,

(11:00):
but you know it was it was.
It made a lot of her injuries alot worse during that time.
So yeah, I think I don't want tosay specific, but I would say
she was in a coma for a solidsix weeks and then probably had
six weeks of recovery before shecould come home.
And then even when she camehome, she had to learn how to

(11:22):
tie her shoes and how to use thebathroom appropriately and
things like that.
And here she had four kidsunder the age of six, right, but
for quite some time we were allfarmed out.
Dad said, you know, thecommunity and the family and the
church just just cloaked himand, you know, took care of us.
We were all different places,brought meals and things like

(11:43):
that.
And you know, he shared with mevery vulnerably.
Once he would be on his drivehome and then, like, highway
signs are a little bit morebasic than they are now, so you
might be driving along and itwould just say Texas, you know,
iowa, you know, and then you getmore specific.
But he would say all I have todo is just turn my wheel to the

(12:04):
right and I'm gone.
You know, I mean never did.
But you know that it wasdifficult for him to to face all
of that and not know what hisfuture with her looked like and
what was he going to do withthese kids and so.
But it was a long journey forher.
You know her mother, my dad'ssister, her sister I mean a lot

(12:24):
of people were sister her sister.
I mean a lot of people werethere for her for a while.
They spent a lot of time goingthrough albums to remind her of
that's.
When this one was born she hadsome lack of memory of she knew
we were her kids, but thedetails of things that you
remember about your kids beingborn and stuff weren't there.
So, yeah, so it was a longrecovery and my dad would say

(12:47):
that when she became pregnantwith my youngest brother, um,
that was the healing, the finalhealing type of thing, like that
was her resurrection child.
You know what I mean.
That was her.
I remember this one from here onyou know, Um, but yeah, I mean,
she's not really suffered fromanything physically as a result
of that.
It was a fairly miraculoushealing.

(13:10):
Yeah, what an amazing story sheactually was coded and they
pronounced her dead at one pointand she had a spontaneous
heartbeat as they were pullingher off everything.
And she's got a deeper story tothat which I'm not free to
share.
Sure, sure yeah.
Yeah, so life changing for heras well.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, for everybody.
So you.
So you did a lot of travelingaround the different states as
as a young girl, and then you'rein Pennsylvania and then you
make another move right, it's afamily.
Yeah.
This one was a little differentfor you.

Speaker 5 (13:44):
It was hugely different and in my introduction
you mentioned scoliosis.
That was actually diagnosed inPennsylvania, so that had
happened at the end of eighthgrade.
I don't know if you guysremember when they checked for
that, but you all go into a roomand you bend over and they look
at your back and I was the kidthat they said you know, go to

(14:13):
the left.
You know it's like, what's thatmean?
No one else is going to theleft.
So, um, you know, went to anorthopedic doctor and diagnosed
with scoliosis and the treatmentat that time was uh, bracing
and um, but they were prettymuch at the early stages of that
, so it was kind of a one bracefits all.
And, um, they put me in thatand said you know, you're in
this in 22 hours a day until youstop growing, and that felt

(14:33):
like a life sentence.
Here I'm getting ready to gointo high school, right?
You know this cute littleeighth grade girl was already
getting attention from boys, youknow.
And and you know, life was overyou know, type of thing.
But yeah, um, yeah, it was areally difficult.
That was a difficult transitionon me.
Um, I had always identifiedwith, with the physicality of
myself, um, that always broughton attention, you know, and so I

(14:57):
kind of felt like that waswhere my worth was.
And by that time I had had, um,I had been molested by a
neighbor boy as a 10 or 11 yearsold and then molested by an
older gentleman that I spentconsiderable time with going
places.
So those two events and thewhole bracing thing, you know, I

(15:20):
mean it was just reallychallenging to deal with that.
But again, I had the safety ofmy family, not that they knew
those things, but I could bethere and it was normal, you
know.
So then, yeah, we find outdad's being transferred to
Richmond, indiana, which myparents are thrilled about.
They grew up in Indiana.
This was coming back home fromthem.

(15:40):
They had done this St Louis,cincinnati, michigan, iowa,
pennsylvania, you know and theywere finally coming home.
The huge big shift for me wasthat my two oldest brothers at
that point were both in collegeand so they were staying in
Pennsylvania and my sister wasin her senior year was my junior
year in high school and we weremoving in February.

(16:03):
So the decision had been madeand she had been given the
choice you can come with us andfinish there, you can finish
here.
She was coming to school inIndiana to go to college at
Hanover.
So you know, she had already, Ithink, been decided at that
point and she decided to staywith one of her best friends and
so this family of seven becamea family of four.

(16:24):
I had this younger brother whoI'd never paid all that much
attention to other than to.
You can sleep in my bed if yougo downstairs and get me some
cookies first.
That was his role.
And I had my first serious highschool boyfriend who, of course,
I was going to marry.
So how in the world was I goingto leave him, you know?

(16:45):
So there were just these and ithappened really fast.
I mean, by the time they sharedit with me it was a matter of
weeks before, you know, we leftand I did not.
I did not handle it well and youknow I had grown up.
You know, when you grow up,making friends they're just kind
of put in your life.
You're not necessarilyintentional about meeting

(17:11):
somebody and finding commonground.
So the idea of going into aschool where all these people
had their own backgroundstogether and trying to break
into that was daunting.
I was also, you know, one ofthe Ford kids, I mean, but three
that came before me and theywere good students and they were
athletes and they had made aname, you know, and I wasn't any

(17:32):
of those things, but Istruggled with what we now know,
as ADD Didn't know it at thetime, thank goodness, honestly,
because you know you just had tofigure it out.
You know, you had to you, know,and so I'm thankful that I
didn't know that, because mypersonality probably would have
loaned to feeling like a victimand I will probably wouldn't
have made it through all of that.

(17:52):
Um, but um, lost my track, soyou're in.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
so you, so you moved to Richmond, you're at a, you're
at a vulnerable state as ayoung woman, you know, body
transitioning through somemolestation, that I mean how did
you deal with all of that?
Then scoliosis, then the move.
I mean that all had to be foryou because it sounds like maybe

(18:18):
you hit all that insideinternally, yeah.
So how do you deal with that?

Speaker 5 (18:28):
You try to control things, you know, and everything
was chaotic, everything feltout of control and the one thing
I found that I could controlwas what I ate.
And um, of course, I alreadyhad body image issues, I was
already hyper-focused on myphysicality and I began to eat

(18:50):
less and less.
And you know, there's also, Ithink, with that there is a I
don't know.
The only thing I can think ofis self-mutilation, which is not
the word I want, but this thingof almost self punishment.
You know you don't deservecertain things like, and that is
somehow falls in that controlthing.

(19:12):
So I treated myself poorly andcontrolled how I did it.
I, you know, I don't know howto unpack that any better.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
And you were probably angry.
I assume, with your parents.

Speaker 5 (19:23):
I didn't speak to my parents for like three months at
all.
You know, I mean they wouldcome, they would pray over me,
they would talk to me, and Ijust refused to speak.
You know, I was so angry, Ijust felt like everybody else
got what they wanted.
You know, my youngest brotherwas fine being there.
He was in fifth grade Sorry,this feels like it keeps
slipping and he was going toIndiana state of basketball.

(19:52):
You know, we we drove toIndiana every summer for two
weeks to see family and to go tothe Indy 500.
I mean, you know, indiana was agreat place to move and I was
like what the heck, you know?
And I moved from the suburbs tothe rural area.
I went to an all white highschool, you know, came to
Richmond from the suburbs to therural area.
I went to an all white highschool, you know, came to.
Richmond was not an all whitehigh school.
There were rules and hallways.
You walked in and didn't walkin, didn't know any of that, you

(20:13):
know.
So, um, yeah, it was.
It was a huge, huge shift forme in that way.
And so, yeah, the only way Ifelt like the one thing I could
control was was eating.
And so I, in fact I was sharingwith my husband the other day.
I found a while ago it'sactually it's been several years
ago, but the diet that I wroteout for myself, you know, and it

(20:35):
was a half of an apple in themorning, a cup of tea for lunch
and the other half of the appleat dinner, and you know, I mean
that was, and a ridiculousregimen of sit ups and push ups
and you know all this kind ofstuff, and that was a little
world that I could, I could bein control of.
How long did that go on?
My parents got pretty concerned, you know.

(21:03):
I probably dropped about 40pounds and wasn't a big girl,
you know, and they had me talkto the doctor once and the
doctor said look, you know,you're getting into a bad state
of malnutrition and it's reallygoing to affect your body.
And I already knew that Mensishad completely stopped.
You know all of the things thatwere normal.
Development of a young girl hadhalted pretty much, and at that

(21:25):
point I decided that I couldstill manage this, but very
sneakily, so I would maintain acertain weight that they
wouldn't be overly concernedabout, you know, and feel like,
okay, you know she's doing okay,but went away to college and it

(21:46):
just exacerbated, you know.
I mean I would eat mondaythrough thursday.
I'd stop eating thursday and Iwouldn't eat again until monday
morning and of course I was atcollege and it was the weekends
and you know I was alsomedicating with sure a lot of
different things.
So there was a lot of weekendsthat you know god gave me the
college roommate.

(22:06):
He did um that.
I just don't remember things.
You know, I just black outbecause I had no food and would
be drinking.

Speaker 3 (22:15):
Throughout throughout that time when you, when you're
in high school and you go intocollege, was there, did you?
Obviously, I'm sure you madenew friends, but were there
friends that you actually feltyou could confide in and tell
any of your past struggles withand what you were dealing with?
Or, or again, because of yourcontrol, you just kind of kept
it all in and just wore thisfacade.

Speaker 5 (22:35):
Yeah, you know the, the intrusion into my physical
space and the sexual type ofstuff didn't just stop, you know
, in Pennsylvania.
By then you know it was part ofan identity and I think a lot
of times you get for a womananyway, you get yourself into a

(22:57):
situation and feel like, well,I'm kind of at fault because I'm
here and I perpetuated this, soyou know type of thing and so
there thing.
So that part of thingsmolestation and the things I
endured as a young child myfamily will probably hear about
it for the first time here andthat's okay.

(23:19):
I did share it with an olderbrother once when we were
talking about his girls and Ijust felt like I needed to speak
into it and say, hey, look,this happened to me and no one
would ever know it.
Because you know when after ithappened I came home, like
nothing stopped, the world justkept going on and it just felt

(23:39):
like, okay, well, I'll just putthat over here.
It doesn't belong in the safespace, it belongs over here, in
this space, and so not really.
I mean my husband knows of it,my previous husband knew of it.
I mean those.
I think those are areas.
There's probably some friendsthat I probably touched on some
of that with.

(24:00):
I don't know if I, you know,went through the whole story
with.
I don't know if I went throughthe whole story.
I'm not ashamed of it.
I I.
It took me a long time to getthere, Um, but once I did, it
felt like I'm never, neverashamed to talk about it if it's
going to do somebody good.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
But I don't just bring it up because I need to
talk about it If, if there's, ifthere's a young girl and maybe
a young man out there right nowthat your story from your
childhood is have.
Is there some advice you couldgive them to help get out that?
Maybe, looking back now on allthe things you've been through

(24:38):
at your life, at this currentage, that you could say, hey,
here's what I would suggest youdo?

Speaker 5 (24:58):
Yeah, that's a tricky one because everybody's family
circumstances are different andI had a totally safe home and it
was hard for me to talk about.
And I have heard of youngladies who have shared, you know
, something that's happened tothem and they haven't been
believed.
So that's a tough one.
Just to say, talk to somebody.
But talk to somebody If amother or father is in a safe

(25:22):
space, if there's a schoolcounselor.
If that's not a safe space, ifthere's a school counselor, if
that's not a safe space, ifthere's an aunt or an uncle,
somebody that would at leastlisten.
Because when you can get it outand start to talk about it,
that's the beginning of thevictory.
The longer you keep it in, themore it weakens you, the more it
plays on your mind, and evilcan do a lot with that you know,

(25:48):
during that time, where wasyour faith at?
Well, I had grown up in a familyof faith.
Um, and my dad was alwaysinvolved and it was either a
deacon or an elder or some kindof leadership in the church.
Mom was always in the choirdoing women's ministries.
We were all involved in youthgroup.
We had kind of a wild youthgroup, you know not.

(26:10):
You know, we, we, some of uspartied a lot on the side, but
so it was always a part.
It was never something Idoubted.
But making it personal was inthe faith I grew up in.
That wasn't really stressed asmuch.
It was more obedience andbehavior and those kind of
things.
Kind of what you look like onthe outside Behind closed doors

(26:33):
is your own issue, you know.
So I had a childlike faith.
Sure.
But you know, when it was timeto make it my own, I, you know,
four years I went to college.
Pretty sure I never went into achurch on the Ball State campus
, I know I didn't, you know,unless I was lost, you know,

(26:54):
would come home and go to church.
But yeah, I didn't have that,that faith on my own At 24, I
had, right out of college notright out of college but pretty
soon after college got marriedand and then divorced two years
later and, um, just couldn'teven believe it.
You know, just, I was justfloored.

(27:15):
That that's where I was, that Iwas 24 years old.
My life was kind of a mess.
Um, there was a lot ofstruggles going on inside my
head and I was divorced and Iwas 24.
And I remember I used to get upreally early in the morning,
about 4 o'clock, to go to a gymfor a 5 o'clock workout class.

(27:36):
And I woke up one morning atlike 3.30 and kind of thought
that's weird that I got upbefore my alarm and just felt an
overwhelming presence of theHoly Spirit.
I mean, I would tell you myroom didn't even look the same
color and don't even remembergetting out of bed, but was on

(27:57):
my knees and just saying look, Idon't know what else to do.
Lord, I have clearly screwedthis all up, and so I guess I
need to hand the reins over toyou.
You know, like there was justthis understanding that I was
given with all of the thingsthat I had been taught and
parents who never ceased prayingfor me I mean never.

(28:21):
It was irritating how much mymother prayed for me you know
what she?
you know I mean, and she like,we prayed for you at Bible study
today and I'd be like, well,what does everybody Bible study
have to know my stuff, could youjust not?
You know what I mean.
So, um, that's beautiful lifelesson for me as I've watched my
kids and so so, yeah, I, atthat point there was a surrender

(28:50):
in my heart and anunderstanding that it wasn't
just about knowing that Christcame and died, it wasn't just
about understanding the storiesof creation and the worldwide
flood and all those things.
It wasn't.
It wasn't that, it wasunderstanding that.
That all pointed to Christcoming and he did that.
If I was the only person livingon this earth, he would have

(29:12):
done what he did for me, and itwas about a personal
relationship with him andunderstanding what he was
calling me to and it may look alot different than what he's
calling you to and that I neededto not worry about that.
I needed to.
You know.
Now I would say it was still agood four to five years of back
and forth.
You know I can live on bothsides of this fence.

(29:37):
You know I can have a foot oneach side and do this, but that
doesn't work well either.
So you know, it was a growingprocess.
It used to really bother methat people would be like you
know, I had this experience withGod.
My whole life turned around andI never went back to anything
again.
You know, I was like really Huh, Lucky you, you know it.
It was.
It was a back and forthstruggle, but, um, I also

(29:59):
learned that it's okay towrestle with God.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
It is, and it's um, it's common, it's daily.
I think anyone who tells youotherwise is lying.
Um.
I think that um especially,especially, you know especially
with our society today, it'shard not to wrestle with things
you know, the challenges that weface and the things that we see
and, um, you know, there's just, there's just so much out there

(30:24):
that that you know, and it's,it's probably the devil right
Playing that, uh, you know, onthis side of your shoulder and
Jesus on this side of yourshoulder and pulling you in all
these different directions.
But you know, you just, I think, with all the different
experiences that you've wentthrough, that I've went through
that, everybody listening, thatBen, everybody here, we all face
those battles.
We all face those struggles andit's just a matter of just

(30:46):
continuing to believe, you know,continuing to take that step,
uh, and recognizing that we'renot perfect by any means.
So you have that experience at24, you go through a divorce.
What's next for you?

Speaker 5 (30:59):
Um, just kind of redefining myself in a way, you
know, and you know, startedtaking church more seriously and
going getting a part of groupsthat would hold me accountable
to things, just working, and alot of my friends were still

(31:19):
single from college.
So for those years gosh went onfun ski trips with friends and
you know those kind of things.
So those years were really just, they were really healing years
.
Really had to, really came toterms with some of the things
that happened in my youth,recognizing I wasn't at fault

(31:40):
for a lot of things and I thinkGod and I you know, I was really
angry at God for a long timeabout some of the sexual things
that happened to me Just feltlike, oh, you didn't have my
back.
You know, I was really young,that was really unfair, you know
.
And coming to terms with there'ssin in this world and he's not

(32:02):
going to save you from it thethings that happen but he will
use them.
He will walk you through it.
And he's not going to save youfrom it the things that happen
but he will use them.
He will walk you through it andhe will strengthen you and if
you persevere, you will see thathe can make ugly, horrible
situations amazingly beautiful.
Um, and a lot of that happenedthen, so I get, I started

(32:22):
gaining some self-confidence andum where was your?

Speaker 3 (32:27):
how was the anorexia that gone away?

Speaker 5 (32:29):
Pretty much.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
Yeah, and how did that happen?

Speaker 5 (32:32):
You know I, I, I think during that time period, I
think the healing of all ofthose things I wasn't as
controlling with food Um, Iwouldn't say that it was absent,
I mean, I was still kind ofvery focused on that kind of
thing, but it was more from ahealthy perspective.
You know, I would almost say Ijust kind of grew out of it in a

(32:57):
way like it no longer served apurpose for me and I have been
really really blessed thatthere's a lot of things like
that, that, however, mypersonality was created.
I don't seem to have anaddictive personality for those
types of things to like.
I have to have that again.
I mean, I did a lot of drinkingand drugs in college and you

(33:22):
know I don't really have any ofthose things as hangups.
You know those aren't go-tostress relievers for me.
You know not that I don't enjoya glass of wine or you know
something like that, but it'snot the issue that I've seen.
There is alcoholism in my familyand I don't seem to struggle

(33:42):
with that or anything like that.
So I'm not sure why.
You know, after going throughwhat I went through with my
second husband, I saw that.
You know, some people haveaddiction issues and some of us
don't, and that's not a strength, that's not on me.

(34:03):
I mean, that's, that's a gift,you know?
Um, so yeah, I think otherthings probably moved in and
that kind of moved out and I andI just didn't need to do that
anymore in order to control myworld.
And the more I gave things overto Christ, the less those
things seem to even hang in mymind, you know.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yeah, yeah, amazing, um, and I appreciate your
vulnerability with that, becauseI know that's it's not easy for
you to talk about.
So you, you mentioned yoursecond husband, so let's, let's
start from there.
So you're, you're going throughthis process, you're single, um
, you know you're, you're,you're getting more involved in
your faith, and then you meetsomeone.
So, talk about that.

Speaker 5 (34:43):
So yeah, I was real involved with a church ministry
at the time that was a martialarts ministry, outreach to kids.
Thought it was kind ofinteresting, wanted to see how
they would blend that.
So I got involved in it and wasworking my way up in the ranks
of belts and got to a belt whereI was able to teach kids

(35:04):
certain things right withmartial arts and I really
appreciated how they did it.
You know it wasn't anaggressive.
You know, come into a room andfigure out who's the bigger guy.
It was like come into a roomand figure it out and if you see
danger, you protect the weakand you get them out and you go.
You don't look for a fight, youlook to get away from the fight
.
The last thing you do is attack, get them out and you go.

(35:25):
You don't look for a fight, youlook to get away from the fight
, the last thing you do isattack.
You know when everybody else isat risk.
That's when you do that, youknow, type of thing.
So it was.
There was a lot of really goodfoundations.
So the our Shidoshi, the guywho led us, took us to a
conference down in Florida.
The ministry we were part ofwas part of a larger ministry
called Gospel Martial Arts Unionand we were in Japan and
Australia and lots of differentplaces where these groups of men

(35:48):
, you know ran this ministry,and the CMAU ministry that I was
part of was underneath thatumbrella.
So we went down to Florida tolearn, you know, to be beaten up
and made feel small and have towalk like a duck for two miles
and things like that, whereyou're like this is just stupid.

(36:09):
And my ex-husband was one of theinstructors down there and so
we connected down there and hefollowed up with me and ended up
he was living in another stateI don't want to be too revealing
.
No, you're good, that was faraway from me.
It was on the west of themississippi and I was in indiana

(36:30):
and, um, he made it a a goal tocome and visit me every weekend
and and build a relationship.
Um, and we met in march and wewere married in may.
So it was pretty quick.
Yeah, it was really quick.
Yeah.

(36:50):
Um and I, you know, I, I feltlike we were doing the right
thing.
I mean, he was a believer, youknow, we, we prayed through this
.
We felt like we were doing theright thing.
Um had serious concerns for myfamily, you know.
My parents were like, uh, wedon't even know this person,
like he could take you away andwe never see you again.
You know, I had a brother whodrove all the way out from

(37:12):
Pennsylvania to sit and meet him, you know.
And so um felt like we wereheading in the in the right
direction, and I think we were.
And at that point in his lifehe had had some serious freedom
from this addiction.
And I could tell you now, after20 years of being married to

(37:34):
him, in that time frame he was adifferent person.
He physically looked different,his energy was different, his
focus was different.
But addiction is an ugly beast.
And um, in over 20 years, hedidn't even look like the same
person.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
You know so.
So talk about.
And this is the part of thestory where I want people to.
I don't want to say, becautious but, um, this is an
addiction, you know.
We hear about drugs, heroin,meth, you know all these
different things.
Alcoholism um, addiction topornography is one of those

(38:18):
things that's not talked about alot because, um, because it's
uncomfortable.
It's one of those things peopledo behind closed doors but it
affects so many people that wedon't even know about that we

(38:44):
probably communicate with on adaily basis and I want you to
get into this story as much asyou want to get into it.
More importantly, what I want tocome out of this is how you
were able to raise a familywhile this was going on, and the
difficulties, because, afteryou and I met, when you told me

(39:05):
everything and I'm sure youdidn't tell me everything, but
you told me enough where I justthought how could you live that
life for 20 years?
Because I can't imagine thestress that you faced, coming
home every day and just maybenot feeling worthy.
I don't know what the feelingis that you felt, but I want you

(39:27):
to go into it as much as youwant to go into it and recognize
that there are a lot of peopleout there who are going to be
listening, who are probablygoing to get punched in the
mouth by hearing some of thisstuff, um, but I think it is so
important to talk about because,again, I think it's one of
those hidden addictions thatnobody talks about.
So you marry this man, thingsare great.

(39:47):
He's, you know, an amazinghusband.
But then things start tounravel a little bit Right.
Um, talk about that.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
Yeah, you know I, I always preface things by saying
every good addict needs aco-addict, right, um?
And so you ask like, how didyou do that for 20 years, man, I
was built to do it, you know.
I mean, I'm a codependent.
I'm a nurse.
Most of us nurses struggle withsome level of codependency.
You depend on me, right, andthat makes me feel better about

(40:19):
me.
So fixing him was while I knewyou don't fix people that was a
comfort zone for me.
And also covering up what wasgoing on and lying about it was
also a comfort zone for me.
For a long time I just wantedto protect him and protect me,

(40:40):
right?
I wanted to make sure everybodyknew that I had made the right
choice, that this was a goodsituation, that you know he was.
I wouldn't make up that he wasdoing things he wasn't doing
because he was, you know,somewhere else, you know doing
something else, and I justdidn't want to face the reality
of that.
I think.
So it's a day by day process.
I also think some of the thingsthat I went through as a child,

(41:06):
good or bad, prepared me forenduring something that wasn't
pleasant for a long period oftime.
You know you don't reallyprocess your own yourself.
I remember in one of thecounseling sessions somebody was
challenging me to say like,well, how are you doing?
And however I was answering, itwasn't.
That person knew I was avoidingthe question or didn't know how

(41:29):
to answer the question.
And what came out of that was Iwas only doing as well as my
marriage was doing.
You know, if my marriage wasbad, I was bad.
My marriage was good, I wasgood.
And they were like no, how areyou?
Like, aside from everythingelse?
And it was the first time thatI realized I don't do me.
I have no idea how I'm doing,like, aside from everything else
.
And it was the first time thatI realized I don't do me.
I have no idea how I'm doing.

(41:49):
I have absolutely no idea,because I'm not important enough
to think about that.
It's how everybody else isdoing and that's how I'm doing.
So that was a big breakthrough,and that was relatively early on
, I mean within the first fiveyears of our marriage.
And at that time I remembertelling him like we've got to
share this with somebody else.

(42:10):
You know, I just can't.
I just can't not talk aboutthis with.
I can't even ask anybody forprayer.
I mean because then I wouldhave to reveal this and he was
very willing to do that In fact.
Then I almost he almostwouldn't stop talking about it.
It was very comfortable for himin circles to share what he was
struggling with and it almostit seemed to me almost to become

(42:32):
a source of pride for him, likeif I share this with everybody,
then everybody feels I'mdealing well with it and I'm on
the other side, which was neverthe truth.
So it often felt really, reallyvulnerable and like when he
would share those things and Iwould see people be like, oh man
, you know, good for you forsharing that.
I'm like, yeah, it's not goingto change a thing, you know what

(42:55):
I mean.
So.
So that was that was kind ofhard and that build up
bitterness.
There was a constant struggleof understanding that this was a
situation I was in and I had toturn it over to God and trust
that he was going to walk thisout well and then going yeah,
but you're not looking at myblueprint because this is not

(43:16):
going well, and you know so.
So there was, there was thatand this awareness that my my
part was to work on me.
There was that and thisawareness that my part was to
work on me, not him.
So you know, one of the thingsthat came out of that whole
situation was an unbelievablydeepened faith Because, you know

(43:36):
, during the marriage also, Iended up with bilateral breast
cancer, had to go through amastectomy and all that kind of
stuff.
Well, tail end of that, weseparated, you know.
So you get to this place wherethere is nowhere else to go but
down on your knees.
There just isn't.

(43:56):
You've come to absolutely theend of yourself and you know it
was just like that night Idescribed in my room.
It's like I don't even know, Idon't know how to do this, so
I'm just going to give it to youevery day and walk it out.
Now, during the day, you takeit back and forth and somebody
says something or hurt you andyou, you shame them and I mean
we got into those cycles.
You know it's very good atshaming him, which was would
send him into a cycle, right.
So you do this kind of veryunhealthy dance and then we

(44:21):
would have moments of strengththat we would talk about things,
and I knew he wanted it out ofhis life.
I knew he did.
But you know you talk toanybody with an addiction, a
smoker or whatever you know.
There's just that .0001% thatyou just can't let go of, and
that is all Satan needs.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, it's just so.

(44:42):
I don't understand that part ofit real well because I've.
I mean when I, you know, Ismoked cigarettes in college and
then when I got away frompeople who smoked cigarettes, I
had never bought a pack, so Ijust didn't smoke cigarettes
anymore.
I don't have that personality,not that it's not a struggle.
I mean there's still two peopleI can think of, I get around.
If they're smoking, I'll belike, oh, pass me a cigarette,

(45:05):
you know.
And when they leave I don'teven think about it, you know.
So I get that.
That's a blessing for me.
But it made it hard sometimes tounderstand.
Like, just stop.
But, like you said, it's atotally different addictive
beast because it's not asubstance.
You can't pour out the alcohol,you can't get rid of the drugs,
you can't keep them from goinggambling.

(45:28):
This one's up here and he usedto tell me that I've got videos
stored in my mind for years andyears and years.
I can play them anytime I want,you know.
And so it's a very, and somebodyshared with him once that he,
the gentleman who was sharing it, said he had several addictions

(45:51):
and one of them was heroin.
The other one was pornography,and pornography was much harder
than heroin to get rid of, and Ijust remember going what?
Oh my gosh, okay, this is evil.

(46:11):
Yeah, oh my gosh, okay, this is, this is, this is big evil.
Yeah, and um, you know, I think, like with most addictions, you
think if you just do it inprivate, it doesn't affect
anybody, but, um, it rots yoursoul.
I mean it does and, and I thinkhe would, he would tell you
that I mean it just shatters,your foundation crumbles and
that leeches out into everythingthat you do.

Speaker 3 (46:29):
So throughout that 20 year marriage you have children
.
Talk about that.

Speaker 5 (46:35):
That was scary.
Yeah, you know, when we startedthe marriage and he had told me
about this addiction prior toour getting married, I felt like
oh, he's, he's conquered this.
And he was in a time frame atthat point where it was not an
issue for him and he had thisnine weeks of like complete
sobriety for it and from it, andso I I and I didn't understand

(46:59):
a pornography addiction.
I'm like I'll just stop lookingat it and stop touching
yourself.
I mean, it seems pretty simpleto me, there's your solution.
But pretty early on in ourmarriage, within the first few
weeks, he shared with me that hewas struggling and that sent me
into a tailspin.
I felt like I was 12.
You know, I mean it was kind ofan ugly time for me and I

(47:23):
really really withdrew.
It was, it was kind of an uglytime for me and I really really
withdrew and and I, I came outof that, but I don't think ever
completely.
You know there was a there was ahedge of oh, second guessing,
yeah, um, so yeah, when, when wegot pregnant, of course I was
excited because I was 37.
Right, and I really hadn't.

(47:44):
I didn't more, not havingchildren necessarily, but you
know, wanted the opportunity, Iwas married and you know.
So we're excited.
But yeah, in the back of mymind I'm like, how does this
play out?
You know, I mean, whether it'sa girl or a boy, you know how
does this play out.
So we kind of doubled down.

(48:05):
We flew out to Colorado for twoweeks of intensive counseling.
I mean we were doing a lot ofthe right things, but he was
really living two differentlives.
I mean.
I think part of it was, youknow, look what I'm doing.
And the other part of it wasdon't look what I'm doing.
And so, right after my first sonwas born, which was five days

(48:27):
of labor and a very difficultbirth, and you know, after he
was born, he was rushed off tothe newborn ICU and you know, we
were told a lot of really badthings that meant and I was a
nurse and I knew what they meant.
You know I'm like OK, so livertransplant, ok, so this, so that
.
So that was a really rough 48,72 hours, and it was.

(48:47):
He was born on September 10thand nine 11, or he was born on.
He was due on September 10th,nine 11 happened.
He was born on September 26th,so I mean it was.
That was a timeframe, you knowwhat I mean.
The whole world had shifted andyou just knew, like my kids are
never going to know the world Igrew up in, you know, I mean
that's all.
So there were a lot of thingsat play and my husband had his

(49:08):
own company.
That was a.
He was involved in the Internet, website design, maintenance,
stuff like that, and his bigcash cows were airlines.
So a lot of them pulled theirbusiness right away and so he's
limping this along way, and sohe's limping this along.
And you know I'm going throughthis this five days in the

(49:30):
hospital of labor and and ourchild's in the newborn ICU and
you know all that kind of stuff.
And I had a real struggle withGod at that point too.
In fact, just shook my fist athim and I hate to even say it,
but I remember having aconversation with him saying and
I hate to even say it, but Iremember having a conversation
with him saying take your handsoff my son, he's mine, and how

(49:54):
dare you bring me this far andthen do this?
And I just, I was just, youknow, and I don't know what it
was that I opened my Bible onemorning and I, when I was
sitting there in the hospital,still after he'd been born, and
read the story of Jacobed, whichis Moses's mother putting her
son in a basket and sending himin the Nile River and trusting
that whatever happened to him,that was God's plan and that she

(50:16):
was going to rejoice inwhatever it was.
And it was just a rendering ofmy spirit.
You know it's like oh my gosh,I'm sorry, he's not mine, he's
yours, I forgot, you know, allright.
Oh my gosh, I'm sorry, he's notmine, he's yours, I forgot, you
know, all right, do whateveryou're gonna do, but if I leave
this hospital without him, youbetter, you better support me,
because I don't know how to dothat, you know.

(50:37):
So, yeah, so sometimes therewere things that that took my
mind off of what was going onwith my husband and I could just
focus on those things.
But I had some pretty poignantdreams that were really scary
about, you know, my son being acopy of my husband's struggles

(50:59):
and, you know, would wake up andjust like run and grab him out
of the crib.
I'm like, okay, no, he's stilla newborn, he's still perfect,
there's still time.
But you know, as the addictionworsened and I say worsened, I
mean he had struggled with thissince he was a teenager.
So you know, it's not like itcame around right when we got

(51:20):
married, but as it manifesteditself and really took hold, but
as it manifested stuff andreally took hold, he became very
oppressive.
So, you know, I mean I cook inthe kitchen.
He's watching over my shoulderand second-guessing what I'm
doing.
You know my son couldn't reallydo anything, right, there was,

(51:41):
you know, always a better way todo it or always.
And and so my struggle wasknowing my son needed to see a
united marriage in order to be astrong young man, but almost
always siding against my husband, with my son, and feeling like
that's a bad, that's a bad thing.
You know that he can't see thatdivision, but not knowing how
to, how to be united withsomebody, that I was really

(52:04):
struggling respecting, which isthe main thing a woman's
supposed to do.
For you know, men need respect,right, they don't need love as
much.
Women need love.
You know you don't have torespect me, I don't care, I mean
, you know, I mean it's adifferent beast, yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
While, at the same time, you're still a registered
nurse.
You're still working.
You're still a registered nurse.
You're still working.
You're still, you know, raisingyour son.
You know you go away for eightto 10 hours or 12 hours a day,
whatever your shift is, and thenyou come home to this whole
different life, right, man?
What a what a struggle that hadto be for you mentally.

Speaker 5 (52:41):
Oh yeah yeah, my mental health was health was.
That was a tough thing.
It really was, especially whenyou didn't have anybody to
really vent to or talk to aboutit.
So you know, when we first wentto counseling, the first
counseling that we went to,which was out in Colorado, was a
little odd for me, of course.
I was at that point I was likesix months pregnant, so that's

(53:02):
kind of a weird thing.
You know, point, I was like sixmonths pregnant, so that's kind
of a weird thing.
You know, um, but I mean I thinkit gave me some tools to use,
but at the same time I felt likeit was the takeaway for a lot
of the people that were therewith the addiction was kind of a
victimization of like this isjust who I am, type of thing.
I don't know that that wastheir point, but that was kind
of where it got around to.

(53:23):
For a lot of the people thatwere there with us was just that
you know this, this is, this ispart of who I am and I'm, I
struggle with it and I mighthave victory, but I don't know,
I left there feeling like therewas an excuse for him not to
have complete victory.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
This, the one that you went to, was that, um, the
one you told me about that wasmore of a Christian based type
therapy that the one you told meabout.

Speaker 5 (53:48):
That was more of a Christian-based type therapy.
In fact it was primarily forpastors and this was a house.
I think they could have eightcouples at a time and they were
booked six months out Justpeople who were speaking from a
pulpit and teaching, and myex-husband was not in that.

(54:09):
I don't even know how we gotinto the program.
I mean he had seen it in amagazine.
He brought it to me.
He said I think this is whatI'm struggling with hadn't
really identified it in his ownmind, and we applied and and got
accepted.
To come out almost like within amonth or two Retrospectively,
looking at the program andseeing what they were doing, I
was like how in the world thatwe aren't even in the ministry?

(54:30):
I mean, he headed up theministry, the Gospel Martial
Arts Union.
He was the president of thatwhen we met, but he wasn't a
pastor, teacher, that kind ofthing.
So you know, I know that thatwas God.
So whether I feel like that wasa really good experience for us
or not, there was something inthat that was very important for

(54:51):
me to go through and understandand it did help me understand
addiction better.
I was like, okay, this isn't you, you can't just stop looking at
that, stop touching yourselflike I get it there.
There's, there's chemicals atplay, there's things that have
built up in your brain, there'sthings that you need to
understand why it's driving youthere in order to to overcome
this.
Um.
So I know, I know it was a goodthing, it was just.

(55:14):
I think it was just like I saidI was pregnant and you know, we
, we hadn't really told too manypeople yet and I was still kind
of in a mentally in a in arough place.
And you know, just, I don't tobe fully candid, you know, our,
our intimacy life was a bitchallenging for me.
I I'd always felt unsafe in insexual relationships, but, um,

(55:37):
bringing what he brought intothat was um, it really, it
really brought out theinsecurities in what I'd
struggled with all my life and Ialso I was not very present a
lot of times just couldn't be.
So that's hard.
You don't even share thatintimacy.

(55:58):
Really, that intimacy is alltainted with this and they sens,
sense that and so, yeah, I mean, I think as, as my boys grew or
you know, they really sensethat I, there was a lot of
things.
He did well with them, but notconsistently, and what was

(56:19):
consistent was not good.
Right.
And so there was a underlyinglack of trust in the house.
There was arguments that theywould see and pent up
frustration with their mom.
I think I must have had areally stern look on my face a
lot of times.
My youngest would say that hewould often say it's not what

(56:40):
you're saying, it's your tone,or it's not what you're saying,
it's how you're looking at meand I'm like what you know?
But it was everything I coulddo just to to maintain and not
lose it on them.
It wasn't their issue, you know, but but I I think that a lot
of times also, I think I wouldbe unfeeling about something you

(57:02):
know.
My kids would say you know, mymom's not going to take us to
the hospital unless we'reabsolutely dying.
You know, I, I would minimizeeverything you know they'd come
in with you know, opened upwounds and I'd go get duct tape.
You're fine, you know we'll.
We'll take care of that here.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
You know, which is how my dad was, you know I mean
so um well and knowing yourstory, to this point of your
life, like you, you were thefixer.
You all those things that youdeal with dealt with as a young
woman, a young lady, firstmarriage, second marriage.

(57:39):
All those things that you'redealing with like why would you
take your kid to the hospital ifthey got a cut on her head?
I mean, that's a simple fix,right From what you're dealing
with, what you've been through,you kidding me.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
Well, and I think too , some of the things like I made
some really bad mistakes when Iwas a teenager and my dad made
sure that I would walk out theconsequences.
I forged some things in highschool and my dad found out
about it.
He took me to court and he mademe walk through that process
and I, you know, I thought mylife was over.
But I do remember the judgesaying to me at the end of all

(58:08):
of it, all the principles werethere, it was awful and it was a
long process, that how lucky Iwas to have parents that cared
that much.
And of course, I'm sittingthere going.
Are you kidding me?
This is caring.
Yeah, you know yeah.
I know, or you know, a time whenyou know, wearing this back
brace and I had gotten verysneaky about it and wasn't

(58:32):
wearing it anymore and tried to.
I used to go to school and takeit off.
But I tried to take it off onemorning before going to school
and I was trying to act like Ihad it on and my dad could tell
that I didn't and said to meright before I was leaving to go
to the bus come give me a hug,suze, which we were a hugging

(58:53):
family, but that was notsomething he would normally say
and the only thing I could thinkof saying was no.
And he said it again and I knew.
I knew the jig was up and so Itook off.
I ran out the back door.
I mentioned how tall my fatherwas.
His step is three of mine.
He caught up with me and, youknow, said we'll talk about this

(59:16):
this evening which I got to gothrough a whole day of school
knowing that you know butbasically the bottom line was
you know, when you can't showresponsibility, when you can't
show working through something,when you can't make right
decisions, there's privilegesyou don't get and you don't get
your license.
And at the time that was no bigdeal.
I had three older siblings andyou know I was like fine, I

(59:38):
don't care.
But the funny thing about thatis, years later, when I was in
college and getting ready to docommunity nursing and I needed a
car and I still didn't have mylicense, you know, I was 1920
years old and I went home and Iwas like Dad, you know, I've got
to learn community nursing.
I got to go out.

(59:59):
You know, I need a car, I needto.
And he said you can take theMercury.
It was this car that he boughtfor all the kids.
It had like super play in thewheel.
There was a hole in the floor,you know.
And I was like well, I don'thave my license.
And he goes why don't you haveyour license?
I'm like what you forgot?

(01:00:19):
But it showed the obediencenumber one of understanding that
Until he said yes, I wasn'tgoing to do that, even though
legally I probably could havegone and done it.
But number two was you will paythe price for your consequences
.
You can make whatever decisionyou want, but play out both
sides of it and if it is worthit to you to pay the

(01:00:41):
consequences, and you're goingto go ahead, just remember that
you agreed to that in your ownself and don't ever say you
don't deserve it.
And so that I think all of that, those kinds of experiences
played out in this like you, you, you accept where you are and
you push forward, and you, youthen make better choices, you

(01:01:04):
know, type of thing.
So I I think those things, alongwith all the other things that
I've shared, that I've gone,that I went through, were were
things that helped me to pushthrough and persevere and know
that you know there, there wasan end to this at some point,
whether it was the day I took mylast breath on earth and then

(01:01:24):
everything's perfect, or itwould work out like it would in
my mind, which was he wouldfinally surrender all of it.
My boys would watch thetransformation of a person and
what God can do, you know, andit didn't work out that way,
yeah, so how did it end?
So, you know, at one point whenmy boys were young teens, it was

(01:01:47):
earlier than I wanted to sharewith them.
He shared with them what waswhat his struggle was, which was
powerful and good, had he beenhealed, but he since he wasn't.
I think it became a littleconfusing for them because
unfortunately, both my boysvisualized things they shouldn't

(01:02:10):
have visualized right, bothwith their father in the picture
and not in the picture.
And my oldest son recently hasactually had to address his dad,
you know, in that situation.
So it continues on, but at atthe time, at their age, it's
very confusing.
You know, do what I say, notwhat I do.
Um and um.
We started having these weeklymeetings for we check in.

(01:02:36):
The boys wanted to do this andlike, how's it going dad?
How?
You know we, everybody wantedto support dad.
You know, like what can we do?
But pretty quickly they becamekind of the same thing, you know
, like, you know, in real,non-specific.
So it was kind of a tough week.
You know, what was it?
What's that mean?
Well, you know, just didn't gothe way I wanted it to.
You know, wouldn't give,wouldn't open up, but you just

(01:02:58):
kept everybody on that outercircle and so the way an addict
talks is to never actually beguilty, right, and so it just
kind of left you going.
Well, what does that mean?
Like?
Well, clearly it means that,okay so, and he was less and
less a part of things I was.
Usually I looked like a singleparent at a lot of baseball
games and at a lot of swim meetsand at a lot of band

(01:03:19):
performances and a lot of, youknow, theater stuff.
He may argue that, but in mymemory, you know, I was taking
him to practice, I was takinghim to the games.
I was, I was doing everything.
That's that's how it felt andthat may be my side of the story
, you know, but they, they sawthat, they felt that.

(01:03:41):
The boys felt that and I thinkby the time they were teenagers,
my boys were still coming to mefor all of their major issues
and I just knew that wasn't theway God designed it.
You know, I'm like I don't knowhow to walk you through that
one.
You know, I mean they'd sharethings with me that some of my
friends would just be like Ican't believe how your boys talk

(01:04:03):
to you and they'd shareeverything with you.
I'm like, I know, I know, likeI don't even know what to tell
them.
So that that and the fact thatit came to a real head for you
know, especially my oldest son,and when things started really
going bad for him, I knew I I'mlike, okay, I've got two bad, I

(01:04:27):
got two decisions to make.
Neither one of them was good,you know.
I mean, do we stay in thissituation?
Do we leave this situation?
And which lesson is it?
And I had been the gentleman whomarried us, who was a mentor to
Mac's husband, had told me,probably five years previous to
this, that biblically I could bereleased from this marriage.
There was infidelity, whetherit was physical or mental,

(01:04:51):
because you know, at that pointthere had been no activity
between us for years and yearsand years, which I was fine with
.
But you know, I mean, that'sjust how it manifests, you know,
I mean that the reality,pornography, is so far removed
from what intimacy is supposedto be Right.
And if you grow up with thosein your mind which is my warning

(01:05:11):
to boys now you look at thatstuff and you think that's what
it's all about, I'm telling youright now it is going to be a
rough marriage and if and ifwomen think that's how they're
supposed to perform.
It's going to be extremelylonely.
It's so warped, it's so warpedand it just leaves no room for
the health of a healthy woman.

(01:05:32):
Marriage in that intimacy realm, you know, it's always an
unsafe place to go, quitefrankly so, and it's supposed to
be the most sacred place thatyou have, right.
So you know.
Good job, satan.
You know, I mean you tear thatdown, you tear marriages down,
you tear families apart, whichis, you know, ultimately, what
ended up happening.
I just got to a point one daywhere I said we, I, you know,

(01:05:55):
we've been doing this for 20years and we're not anywhere
different than we were when westarted.
And I just don't know why.
You know what's the definitionof insanity Doing the same thing
over and over again, expectinga different result.
And I remember at that timesaying I, I'm, I'm done, I'm, I

(01:06:16):
just can't, I can't do this withyou anymore.
I've got to turn around and payfull attention to them and I
just can't do it with you.
Here.
We had separated twice, youknow, over this.
He had been homeless for a while.
I mean, we'd walk through someugly stuff trying to get him
through this and we were reallynowhere different.
And his response to me wasanger, was I'm tired of people

(01:06:38):
not believing me?
And if that's how you feel,then I'm out of here.
And I thought to myself thatwas confirmation, because
somebody who, of course, he wasalways claiming sobriety, right,
somebody who's fought to gettheir family back, who's sober,
who's been homeless, who's beenthrough counseling, that's not

(01:06:59):
their answer.
Their answer is no way.
I have fought too hard and Iwill do whatever it takes.
What do you need me to do?
And his was tuck my tail andrun and feel sorry for myself
and left 10 and a half hoursaway.
You know he didn't go to thenext city, he vacated and really
didn't hear much from him for awhile.

(01:07:21):
He called me two weeks latersaying he wasn't coming back.
You know there wasn't anythinghere.
For him it's like, oh ouch, Imean I don't care if that's the
way you feel about me, but yougot, I got a boy getting ready
to graduate high school.
I've got.
I mean I have two teenage boyshere.
What do you mean?
There's nothing.
Are you kidding me?
You know?
I mean that's how warped it gotin his mind, because that that

(01:07:43):
I know, that he knows, but Iknew he knew better than that,
but he, he was lost in theforest.
I mean it, it it had been partof his life for so long that his
reality was completelydifferent from the reality we
were in and um, and that reallyhasn't changed to this day,
unfortunately.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
So what was that feeling like for you?
Not, you know obviously yourcare and your concern for your
boys, but that feeling for youwhen he said I'm not coming back
.
For you, when he said I'm notcoming back Relief.

Speaker 5 (01:08:19):
Sadly, you know, like I, I don't care, you know, I, I
, I've been doing this on my ownfor 20 years, you getting out
of the way.
Just I can breathe Um, the.
When you live with somebody,that's that oppressive and you
can't do much.
That's right, it right, it'sfreedom.
And and along with that camehorrible guilt.

(01:08:40):
That that's how I felt, becauseI knew it wasn't going to feel
that way for my boys.
Right, they were going to walkthrough something and I've told
them that I did not have afather who did this, my father
to the his last breath.
I could depend on that man foranything, especially a harsh
word, if I needed to hear it.
You know, or like I'm not, Idon't agree with you on that one

(01:09:03):
.
I mean, he was a sounding boardfor me.
He was steadfast and he wasthere and his commitment was to
his kids and his wife and hisGod.
You know what I mean and I knewthat.
So I could not identify withwhat they were going through.
I, you know, I had no idea howit felt.
First of all, I'm not a boy.
Sure.
You know, second of all, myfather never vacated, never
abandoned me.

(01:09:23):
So I was at a bit of a loss asto how to walk them through it.
And so it was just, and, and inall honesty, I somewhat
abandoned them.
I lost myself at my work.
I'd work 80 hour work weeks.
I'd go in at five in themorning, come home at two in the
morning, get up and do it again, you know, and and leave my two

(01:09:44):
boys there.
My oldest boy was kind ofspinning out of control at that
time.
You know he was making reallybad choices and you know can't
reveal all those.
But I was called to school morethan once and had to take him
home for different reasons, andit was just this about face of
this.
You know I'm just going torebel against all this.
And then my youngest son wasjust, he was just kind of lost.

(01:10:08):
He's a person who really has to.
When you tell that child atnine in the morning what the
plan is, you better not deviatefrom it because he will let you
know.
You know he needs structure, heneeds organization, he that's
kind of how he thrives still tothis day.
And so he was.
He was just, you know, a flagfly.

(01:10:31):
He just didn't know what to do.
And, um, I think he felt, no,he felt abandoned by, by his dad
, but his brother who is nowdoing these different actions,
and he didn't know how to handlethat.
And then he was, you know, assiblings do, don't tell mom,
don't tell you know.
So then, and he couldn't nottell me the truth.
I mean, that was just hismakeup, you know.

(01:10:52):
I mean, he told me once heconfessed he looked at
pornography and he was like 10.
And I was like what?
Well, he had seen a magazine atthe grocery store of somebody
that was in a bikini and that'swhat he thought.
So he's got to tell me thatright away.
I mean, that was him, my oldestson's, much more like me.
You just keep it in, you justdon't share, you just
internalize.
So that was the harder one toraise.

(01:11:17):
You think, like if a child'slike me, I'm going to be able to
nail it.
And then you realize I didn'treally nail it and I don't
really know how I got throughthat.
So I don't really know how totell him to deal with this.
And dealing with yourself beinga parent, deal with a child who
was you as a child was likethat's not easy.
It's not a good place to be.

(01:11:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
So it's challenging.
Yeah, how are the boys now?

Speaker 5 (01:11:42):
Um, they're amazing.
Uh, you know, I, one of mybiggest things was like are
these boys ever going to likeeach other?
I mean they just oil and water.
I mean they just could not.
You know, my second born sonwas pretty sure he should have
been born first, from the minutehe came out, never let his
older brother forget it.
Older brother really resentedthat about him.

(01:12:05):
Their minds are different, theway they work through things.
My oldest is very laid back.
My youngest is not laid back.
He's extremely intentional andintense and, um, both of those
have great qualities.
But you know, you have to, youhave to hone those right.
They can, they can be yourbiggest fault, they can be your
biggest strength.
But my, my oldest works forBrian, you know, and so I was

(01:12:33):
really thankful that he wasgoing to go into something.
He graduated the year of COVIDthat what he was going into,
which was underwater welding.
All the schools closed down fora couple years, so he did some
other things and then Brianbrought him on.
You know, stay with me for acouple years.
I'll introduce you to somepeople in the trades.
We'll see what happens and andfour years later he's.
He's there and he's working andhe, he loves it, he loves what

(01:12:55):
he does.
He just got engaged to bemarried.
He is an amazing older brotherand my youngest went away.
He chose college, my oldestchose vocations and my youngest
chose college.
That was good Once he went awayto college, but it happened a

(01:13:15):
lot faster than I thought itwould.
I mean within months he wouldcome home and they were spending
all this time together to thepoint where I'm like, hey, your
bed is here in this house, whyare you always over there?
Now I'm fine with it, butthey've become very close and I
think it has helped them both toheal.
My oldest has found a safeplace to have a good

(01:13:38):
relationship.
I've told them both.
I'm like you know your dad'syour dad.
Sure.
And you've got to figure outwhere you can have a good
relationship with them.
It may never be the one youwant, but he's going to be here
and, and even though hestruggles with understanding his
reality, he does.
He loves you.
I know, he does, you know.
And so my, my oldest, foundthat place with him pretty,

(01:14:02):
pretty well, my youngest hasreally, really struggled to find
that place with him.
Um, but he struggles.
So that's good, that's whatI've told him.
It's great that you'restruggling, you know.
That means that there'ssomething there that you're
fighting for.
So you know they've gottenthere.
Like I said, most recently myoldest son had decided to have a

(01:14:22):
.
Well, he sent his dad a letterabout some things that were
really bothering him and laidsome boundaries and some rules,
and hasn't heard from his dadnow for months, because you know
his feelings are hurt, I'm sure, but he was prepared for that,
but it's still it's.
It's still hard, it's stillhurtful.
You know, I feelings are hurt,I'm sure, but he, he was
prepared for that, but it'sstill it's.
It's still hard, it's stillhurtful.
You know, I just want to go.

(01:14:42):
Really, man, do you know whatit takes for a kid to do that?
I could have never.
There were things I would haveliked to said to my dad that I,
just the minute I got in frontof him, I was 10 years old, with
pigtails.
You know, I'm like I can't sayanything.
You know that takes a lot andso, you know, I give him those
accolades, but it's not the same, you know.

(01:15:04):
But they're, they're both doingreally well, they both have a
ways to go, they both are.
They're wrestling, you know,with God.
Yeah, but they're wrestlingwith God.

Speaker 3 (01:15:14):
So amen, you know you've been doing that all your
life.

Speaker 5 (01:15:17):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:15:22):
I've been doing that all your life, right, I've been
doing that.
All I mean we all have, I mean,it's, it's, uh, again, it's a,
it's a, it's a struggle and youjust gotta you gotta believe and
you gotta continue to take thatstep and recognize there's
going to be things that aregoing to knock you off the horse
, right and um, and that you mayget knocked off for 20 years,
yeah, Um, but you continue tohave that feeling and you

(01:15:42):
continue to pray and um, I mean,I can't imagine all the times
in your life where you question.
God, you question why you know,haven't I been, wasn't I through
enough as a, as a 10 year oldgirl?
And here I am, you know, 40, 50years old, and now I'm dealing
with this you know, I'm livingthis life that um.
I don't.
I never anticipated living.

Speaker 1 (01:16:03):
Right, I mean, how many times did you tell yourself
that Ever?

Speaker 3 (01:16:06):
Um, susan, your story is amazing and and I am I'm
proud of you for sitting hereand and telling it, because I
think your story probablyresonates with more people than
some of our other guests storiesbecause, um, it's everyday life
, you know it's, it's raising afamily, it's dealing, uh, you

(01:16:30):
know, with someone who you love,you married, who's battling
addiction and you don't know howto fix it because they don't
know how to fix it, and you try,and you try, and you try, and
you try, and you keep takingthose steps and I'm sure there's
many, many times in that 20years you felt like you were
living a false life.

Speaker 5 (01:16:48):
Oh man, yeah, it's hard to feel like an imposter in
your own life and that is a lotof times.
But I felt that at my youth Ioften that like I wasn't really
there.
I was just kind of.
I was physically there, butthere was just this emptiness
about me and felt like I wasnever.
I didn't have any kind ofidentity that was my own.

(01:17:09):
And then when you get in thosesituations, that's something
that rears its head and that youbattle and while, yes,
frustrated with God, and while,yes, I just I don't get why
you're doing this.
I don't know how this plays out, also feeling like, yeah, you
did it to yourself.
You know, I mean that self,that voice, right, but I did

(01:17:29):
have to get to a place where,you know, raise your children up
in the way they should go andwhen they are old they will not
depart from it, and that is apromise, right.
And so I may never get to seewhat I've envisioned for my kids
ever, but I know that there isa promise and I know that I can
rest there.
I can rest there.

(01:17:50):
You know, for a long time Ididn't think I could.
I was like, yeah, but I mean,don't you think it'd be better
if we did it this way?
You know type of thing.
But I mean, don't you thinkit'd be better if we did it this
way?
You know type of thing.
But I bet I can rest there now,you know, hey, it doesn't
matter if I get to see what Ienvisioned our life being.
I never thought my boys wouldbe as close as they are now.

(01:18:10):
I never did, and I mean,they're just best friends, it's
a blessing, yeah.
I mean, it blows my mind.
I tell my now husband um, howI'm like.
You should have seen this threeyears ago.
You should have seen this twoyears ago Like this.
This would never have happened.
And now they're like alltogether all the time.

(01:18:32):
Yeah, I'm like.
You know, I don't even want tobe with either one of them as
much as they're with each other.
And he recognizes it.
He says well done, good job.
I'm like, believe me, like Isaid, I exited their lives for a
while too and just buriedmyself in my work and let

(01:18:54):
whatever happened happen.
And yeah, I mean, there's powerstronger than than us as
parents that are at play.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
All right.
One last question.
If you could sit on a parkbench and have a conversation
with someone, living or deceased, who would it be and why?

Speaker 5 (01:19:15):
I've thought about this one, cause I hear you ask
it all the time they would beliving.
Most of the people that I knowthat are deceased, that I miss.
I'm going to be with themforever, so it's really more the
people that are here that Idon't get to see.
I have a dear, dear friend.
There's two people that come tomind I don't know how to put
one in front of the other, buther name is Autumn and we

(01:19:39):
started motherhood together,together, and our souls just
clicked and they moved away 20years ago.
But we, you know, they were inSt Louis and we were all
homeschooling at the time, so wecould go there a lot.
Now they're in Indianapolis,see each other a lot.
She's walked a, you know, areally, really rough road.

(01:19:59):
Um has has lost a young childjust before he turned a year old
.
She's just gone through somestuff and I I miss her and we
just don't get the time that wewant.
And um, I, I think, I think itwould be her because I just I
don't get time with her and shestrengthens my spirit and my

(01:20:22):
soul.
And the other person would beBill, my husband, because we got
married in February and he'sstill living in Noblesville and
I'm still here, and so he's myperson and I get strength from
him, and so I would love youknow, I mean we're working
towards being in the same placeat the same time, but they both
feel that that part of me that'sjust like oh man, there you are

(01:20:47):
, you know, um, so I would, Iwould take that.
I maybe have to put autumnbefore him, cause I haven't seen
her for longer.
I just saw him last weekend.
I hadn't seen her for longer.
I just saw him last weekend.
I'm sure he understands.

Speaker 3 (01:21:00):
Oh my goodness, what a story.
Ben any questions comments.
You can think Comments.

Speaker 4 (01:21:06):
First one the praying .
And like planting the seed foryour son or your sons I should
say I just go back to like whenyou were a kid and you moved
here to Indiana and you're somad at your parents and you're
like I'm not talking to him, I'mnot talking to him.
My parents come in there andthey pray over me every single
night and like yeah how awesomeis that?
And like, still like that longago, like, and you're still
praying, and like you know, inGod's time your kids will, the

(01:21:27):
seed will come to you know thetime.
But I just was thinking aboutthat.
And then just how powerful andhow many different people you're
going to impact, right, like,maybe there's a wife or somebody
that's dealing with theirhusband watching porn and the
addictions or any addictionreally, and you know it's a
silent one that nobody knowsabout, you're not going to say
anything about it because it's,you know, it's dirty, it's just

(01:21:52):
embarrassing, disgusting, youknow.
And so you're going to supportthe women out there and then
bring the eyes to the husband,right, who's dealing with the
addiction and what it's doing toyour marriage, what you know,
are you dealing with some of thethings that you know, the
issues that you're having, thator what you had, I should say
and are they experiencing thesame things in their marriage?
Maybe you'll open their eyes tosee, like man, like here, I

(01:22:13):
thought it's, you know, hidden,not affecting anybody else, but
it really is.
And I just think, and it's, youknow, hidden, not affecting
anybody else, but it really is.
And I just think and then yougo.
You know as a young kid how youdeal with the molestation and
stuff like that.
It's just so many differentpeople that you're going to
touch and I just so thankful foryou to be so vulnerable.

Speaker 5 (01:22:31):
Thank you.
There's a lot of people thatthat probably have a similar
type story too.
It's, you know, and pornographyis becoming more accepted, you
know.
I mean the teenage boys now.
I mean it's.
My boys have had conversationswith me about no, it's kind of
normal.
I'm like it's not, like nobodyat 10 and they're 10 years old
goes.
I know what I want to be when Igrow up.

(01:22:52):
I want to be a porn star.
That is not.
That is not what women, I don'tcare.
If you feel like, hey, they'reout there, they're doing this,
believe me, it's not what theywant.
Or it's not what their parentshoped for them, or their
ex-spouse or their children orwho.
It's not, and it is.
It will, it will.
It'll weaken you, you know,just like any, any sin.

(01:23:16):
Honestly, I mean I, we look atit as a worse sin.
I don't think god looks at sinin that way, right?
sin is sin my issue with lyingis the same as somebody's issue.
I mean whatever separates youfrom him, it just looks worse.
And pornography, I mean thatwhole, that whole genre, if you
will supports sex slave trade.

(01:23:37):
It supports I'm childpornography, I mean it.
It has leached out into so manythings that people don't
understand.
By supporting that, what you'resupporting, you know.
And even video games.
I remember my son telling meonce that you can, in a video
game, you can stop and get outof your car and go into a strip
club and then on the video gamethere's naked women.
And I'm like what is wrong withpeople?

(01:23:57):
What is wrong with people?
Are you kidding me?
Like why, why is that even apart of something what you know?
But so it's.
It's kind of like what we weretalking about when we were
talking about you know, notknowing.
Like right here in Eatonthere's people who need shoes,
there's people who need laundrydone, like it's all around you
and I don't know if it's easierjust to go it's too exhausting
to be aware of it all the timeor if we just we're, we become.

(01:24:22):
I don't know if you've everheard the analogy of put a toad
in water and slowly heat it upand he'll just sit there.
He won't even notice thedifference.
If that's how we are, you knowit's like it's just it's.
You know it's what it is.
What are you gonna do?

Speaker 4 (01:24:33):
yeah, and hopefully it sparks something.
You know you mentioned thevideo games thing and everything
.
How early do you talk aboutthis with your kids?

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
You know, I mean that's.

Speaker 4 (01:24:41):
That's the whole next thing about it, Right, I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
it's an uncomfortable topic to talk about with
children, you know, and I have,I have a sophomore son, uh, and
then I have a 10 year old sonand three daughters, you know,
and it's conversation that we'regoing to have, uh, it needs to
be discussed and it doesn't meanthat you're going to stop
anything or stop them fromseeing anything.
But you know, these young kidsneed to be made aware that they

(01:25:06):
are being targeted.
Um, there's so many, there'sall this clickbait and things
you can click on where it maynot look like pornography, and
you click on it.
Then, all of a sudden I meanI've heard numerous stories
People tell me you know they'relooking at a to buy a certain
product and they click on thething and all of a sudden, boom,
it jumps right to.
You know, a naked lady, andit's a porn site.
I mean they're very, verycreative in how they market um

(01:25:29):
and and how they get you, andall it takes is just to see it
once.

Speaker 1 (01:25:33):
And then it's like whoa you know Um, so it's um.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
You know I, I was impacted by it.
I had a, a close spiritualfriend, um, who reached out to
me one evening, probably sixmonths ago, sent me a text and
and he was, he was going througha lot of struggles and I think
I shared a little bit this withyou when you were in the office
and he sent me a text it was 10o'clock at night on a Saturday

(01:26:02):
and he said when you get achance, uh, if you've got time
to talk, can you call me?
And I was like, yeah, I'mdriving home, I'll call you here
as soon as I get home.
So I called him and you know hehe proceeded to tell me that he
was addicted to pornography andthat it was something that he
had been battling since he was ayoung kid, you know, like your

(01:26:23):
ex-husband, and he felt like hewas living two lives and he was
getting therapy.
And this is someone who I lookedup to spiritually and that was
a real big punch in the gut forme because you know, you look at
at people like that and almostput them on a pedestal and you

(01:26:43):
don't even think that that wouldbe something they would be
addicted to, right because ofthe field that they're in.
And I was just, I mean, I feltempathy for him.
I was, you know, I justlistened, let him let, felt
empathy for him.
I was, you know, I justlistened, let him, you know.
For whatever reason he felt heconfided in me to tell me I

(01:27:04):
don't know if I'm the only onethat knows um, he's doing better
now, but I'm sure it's a battlehe's going to face, you know,
probably for the rest of hislife.
And this is someone who's who Ithought was as close to God as
you can get.
Yeah, so, but what's that showus?
You know, the closer that youget, the stronger that you get
in your faith.
Guess what?

(01:27:24):
The devil's right there to tryto tempt you and to to get you
to go down this other path.
So it is a battle.
I mean, spiritual warfare is areal thing.

Speaker 5 (01:27:34):
Yeah, Very, very real .
Yeah, I mean it's.
I dealt with it just this pastweekend.
It was ugly.
You know I had to go.
Oh my gosh, I'm so sad that I'mnot stronger than that.
I didn't see that coming, youknow.
But you know I had somebody whocalled me out and I, you're
right.
Oh my gosh, that was totallyself-serving, you know.
So it's, it's okay to fail tofail.

(01:27:57):
Just you gotta haveaccountability and you know men
need to speak into this for men.
Men need to be accountable tomen and men aren't necessarily
gift forgot.
You know you don't want to sitand chit chat about things like
that and but you know I'm that'snot an area I can reach out
into.
I can.
I can reach out into otherwomen's lives.
I can.
You know, I can share myexperiences, you know I I would

(01:28:18):
have loved if my story endeddifferently.
I would have loved for my familyto have stayed together.
I would have loved for him tohave been healed and we would be
here together talking about it.
I would have loved that.
But so you know, my advice isnot ever just get out of it, get
away.
You know I mean you got to walkit out with God.
I mean, like I said, I had twopeople.
You know my advice is not everjust get out of it, get away,
you know.
I mean you got to walk it outwith God.

(01:28:38):
I mean, like I said, I had twopeople spiritual leaders that
spoke into my marriage saying,look, I don't think he's going
to get over this, like you haveevery right.
And I'm like, yeah, god hasn'tgiven me that red flag yet, he
just hasn't.
So there must be more that Ineed to learn.
There must be more my sons needto endure.
There must be more that myex-husband needed to figure out.

(01:29:01):
It just wasn't time.
So I, you know, got to followwhat God does.
He'll give you the strength.
He'll give you the strength.

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Yeah, you've proven that.

Speaker 5 (01:29:09):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:29:10):
Yeah, susan, thank you for your honesty, your
vulnerability and yourwillingness to share the unseen
battles you faced.
Your story is a powerfulreminder that, no matter how
deep the scars or how heavy theburden, there is always hope,
healing and redemption on theother side of pain.
You've shown us that faith cancarry us through the darkest

(01:29:31):
seasons and that, with God'sgrace, we can rise stronger than
ever.

Speaker 5 (01:29:36):
Thank you, yeah, thank you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:29:38):
Yeah, everybody somebody out there you know is
facing something that Susan haswent through in her life and, uh
, I just ask that you share thatwith that someone that that may
have confided in you andwhatever struggles they're
facing, so that they can hearSusan's story and recognize that

(01:30:00):
there is light at the end ofthat tunnel.
But it's still going to bechallenging every day.
Yeah.
So everybody share.
Like all those good things goout and be tempered.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, Dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.

Speaker 2 (01:30:15):
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(01:30:36):
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BeTempered Episode 63 – A Nurse, A Mother, A Survivor: Susan’s War Behind the Smile

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}BeTempered Episode 63 – A Nurse, A Mother, A Survivor: Susan’s War Behind the Smile