BeTempered Episode 65 – The Fight, The Mountain, and the Man Who Wouldn’t Quit - BeTempered

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Thanks, allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
it's your home, you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatron's come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom showerdoors and many other products

(00:21):
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years,
kitchen's class, the clearchoice.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey, do you want to catch every episode live as it's
being recorded?
Log on to patreoncom slashbetempered for exclusive footage
, behind the scenes photos and alive recording as it takes
place.
Go to patreoncom slash betempered.
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, where we explore the
art of finding balance in achaotic world.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
We're your host, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.

Speaker 3 (01:06):
This is Be Tempered.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
What's up everybody?
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, Episode number 65-ish,
possibly 66, but it could be 65.
We're not sure, maybe somechanges, we don't know.
Man, I'm going to tell you rightnow, today's podcast episode is
going to be powerful.
We are fortunate enough to haveone of my rite of passage

(01:31):
teammates, ray mackelson, infrom the great province of
manitoba, um, up in in canada,up in Canada, and Ray if those
of you listening remember thepodcast where Ben interviewed me

(01:52):
about my rite of passageexperience, ray was the leader
of our group, our 18 men thattook that trek through the North
Georgia mountains, and Ray wasan unlikely leader, but we all
leaned on Ray's strength anddetermination to get through
that that 24 hour trek, morethan he knows.

(02:15):
And, um, you know, ray, rayflew in yesterday and uh has
been spending some time withwith uh, the Schmidt family in
Eaton, ohio and hopefully Idon't think we've overwhelmed
him.
But I'm excited for everyone tohear Ray's story, because what
you're going to find out fromthis episode is that you know,

(02:36):
as remarkable of a feat as itwas for Ray to complete the rite
of passage, it's even moreremarkable that he got on the
plane to fly to Georgia to do it.
And so, without further ado,ray, welcome to the Be Tempered
podcast.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
Welcome Ray.
Yeah, thank you very much forhaving me here.
It's been just a fantastic lastcouple of days and, yeah, I'm
just super grateful to be here.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, man, we're grateful to have you here, we're
grateful to hear your story.
You know, you and I had aconversation on the way back
from the airport yesterday tothe house and then sitting
outside talking and man, likethis is probably going to be a
little emotional for me, maybefor you as well, when we hear

(03:25):
the story.
So how we start every podcast,as you know, is we like to start
from the beginning.
So if you would start fromchildhood and lead us, we'll get
into the rite of passage.
So talk about childhood for youFor sure.

Speaker 4 (03:39):
So I was fortunate enough to have fantastic parents
that you know.
They love me very much and Iwas blessed to have, you know, a
great childhood, greatupbringing.
But always as a kid I had justa strong sense of fear, I guess,

(04:04):
always kind of in my life.
And you know, growing up I'd be, I'd be shy and nervous all the
time and you know it.
It started to manifest itselfmore and more as as I grew up
and you know, some of myearliest things I can remember

(04:26):
is just being a little kid inbed laying down and at nighttime
trying to sleep, and just thetotal crippling fear of
annihilation being somethingthat I was always in the back of
my head, like being afraid ofjust losing reality.

(04:46):
I guess, and that kind of, Ithink, laid the framework for
how I, through you know more ofchildhood.
I, you know, experienced quitea bit of anxiety and just kind

(05:13):
of, I would say, withdrawnbehavior sometimes, and most
people would probably think Iwas just a shy kid or whatever,
a shy kid or whatever.
Um, but uh, yeah, as I got intomy I would say, 10 to 12 years
old sort of years, that's where,uh, the first big manifestation

(05:34):
of this came about and, um, weI was in school we watched a
video on uh, the, the Hantavirus, which, um, you know, had
some kind of outbreak orwhatever in the 90s in New
Mexico, and something about thatjust flipped a switch in me
where I became totally obsessiveover becoming spontaneously ill

(06:02):
, you know, or or having uh, a,a spontaneous allergic reaction,
anyways, it's it kind of uhstarted to really affect
everything, like I.
I can't remember exactly, um,what happened in the days like
leading after that experience,but I know that, um, it became

(06:25):
almost impossible for me to go,uh, any sort of distance
anywhere that was away from fromwhat I perceived as help.
So, you know, we would try andgo to the Grand Beach, which is
an hour away from from our home,and that was impossible.
You know, as a kid, it becameit like we to.
I remember the first super bigpanic attack that I had.

(06:45):
We were driving out there andand we ended up having to turn
around because I just wasscreaming and in fear of being
away from what I thought waslike help, whether it was a
hospital or whatever.
And so I think that's when, uh,my parents started really

(07:07):
noticing oh there's, there's uh,something bigger starting to
happen.
And you know, like as a kid, I,I, I did, you know they probably
saw some of that because, uh, Iwould be unusually nervous, I
think, about certain things.
But yeah, so that happened inmy adolescence and then it kind

(07:33):
of, you know, continuedthroughout.
It would go through waves as Iwas becoming a teenager, you
know, of severity, Like whetherI could, you know, go do certain
things with my friends or not.
I'd always be kind of in theback of my mind, fearful, or
like starting to think, well,what's going on?
What's going on?
And and uh, like I told you, dan, um, I had uh like asthma and

(07:58):
stuff as a kid, um, where Ididn't do a lot of like sports
or anything like that, becauseas soon as I'd start running,
you know, I'd start getting anasthma attack and I'm like, okay
, well, that's totally in linewith the fear, right, it's, it's
starting to make me scared ofof just dying all of a sudden.
And and yeah, like I couldn't,I couldn't put on any weight or

(08:23):
anything I couldn't.
And yeah, like I couldn't, Icouldn't put on any weight or
anything I couldn't.
Eating was always a hard thingfor me.
Like, as soon as I'd try eating, I'd instantly feel nauseous.
So, trying to get me to eat asa child, my parents, they, they,
they had a hard time with that,I think.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
Can you talk about your faith at that age?
I mean, did you have faith?
Did you understand faith?

Speaker 4 (08:44):
Where was that as far in your life so so we were
raised Christian and, um, youknow, we did go to Sunday school
and things like that, and Ithink at that time in my life I
did, I, I wanted to rely on thatin some way, on that in some

(09:10):
way.
Um, but, uh, I, I didn't knowhow, you know, there was a.
I'd say there's, there was a,there wasn't, there wasn't a
personal relationship, I think,with the Lord at that time.
For me, you know, it was likethinking about faith when you're

(09:33):
that scared at that young ageand you don't really know what's
happening or anything.
It didn't stick with me.
It uh, it, it didn't.
It didn't stick with me.
You know, I, I, I, my mind wasjust too overrun, I think at the
time, like I was always a veryintrospective kid, like to uh to

(09:53):
a fault and it would, um, I'dnever really have the ability to
, to, to focus on something likethat to, to focus on something
like that.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, so you know this is going on, this.
This triggers 10, 11, 12 yearsold and it just it continues to
get a little worse and a littleworse and a little worse, right.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
So talk about some more of those, those instances
that you can remember where youcouldn't go places and and maybe
the impact that it had on yourparents.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
Yeah, so I, I know, like going on any trips and
stuff like that became a lotharder, um, trying to do things
with my friends, like in as wegot into high school and stuff,
you know, even just sometimesgoing on walks to to a place
that was, um, you know, a littlebit far away.

(10:46):
I'd be very, very scared and youknow, I think I probably hid it
well.
But you know, I was neverpresent in pretty much anything
that I would do, and even inschool I was always just just
this feeling of doom was alwayson my back and yeah, I'm sure it

(11:10):
affected almost everything Idid really Like, if I look back,
there's no time I can remembernot being influenced by that.
Um and like, for my parents,they had, uh, you know, taken me

(11:33):
to um child psychologist when Iwas younger to, and that I
think helped uh, I'm not surehow much it helped them
understand.
I'm sure it helped me start toto kind of display that there
was something kind of going on,you know, um, so this, this

(11:55):
continues to go on, but itcontinues to manifest worse and
worse and worse and worse.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Can you talk about you know, you told me some
things yesterday about how youwould be in certain positions,
yeah, holding your knees.
Yeah, kind of talk about that.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah.
So once I got to, uh, I wasfortunate enough that through my
later years of high school andum, early early adulthood, like
around 17 and 18, the, the panicattacks sort of, and the
anxiety in general, it peteredout a little bit, you know, and
I was able to function a littlebit more normally, you know.

(12:38):
And then when I became 19, Iremember I was 19 and this it
just kind of came out of nowhere, just a wicked panic attack.
And again, it's always aroundthis theme of of becoming
spontaneously ill, like withsome sort of reaction, and it it

(13:02):
actually I might even rememberI might have had a pineapple
drink I think is what I mighthave had and it just made a
tickle in my throat and, man,that just sent me to a place
that this panic just wouldn'tstop.
And so it was like, you know,you'd wake up and think, okay,

(13:27):
it'll be gone tomorrow.
That fear never left and, um,it just started getting worse
and worse and I would not, uh,you know I, I I'd be sitting
curled up in a ball for forhours on end just worrying about
this, this thing.

(13:47):
That never happened, obviously,but um, yeah and that that
continued and it got worse andworse through, uh, through my
19th and 20th year where, uh,there was a lot of time where I
wouldn't go out.
You know I was probablywithdrawing from my

(14:10):
relationships and it couldn'twork.
You know, it got to the pointwhere I couldn't work for a
while and stopped eating Becausejust the idea of eating food it
was like, okay, this is goingto give me an allergic reaction,
this is going to and so I wasalready a skinny kid and, like,

(14:33):
I got real skinny and it justkept manifesting until I
couldn't leave the house and I'dforce myself to sometimes try
and go on walks.
And it got.
It eventually got to the pointwhere that those didn't even
happen anymore.
You know, I was just stuckstuck locked in your room.

(14:54):
Yeah, curled up in a ball yeah,yeah, like when I remember it
was this time I was probably 20and, uh, my parents brought home
a house plant and uh, it was onthe counter upstairs in the
kitchen.
And I came home and I saw thatand I was so horrified that I

(15:16):
might smell something on thisplant that it would kill me,
that I went to the basement andliterally sat curled up in a
ball for four or five hoursuntil someone else came home,
and then I would feel some sortof safety, right, but even then,

(15:38):
you know, I couldn't go aroundthe plant.
I couldn't.
You know, it was really.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Tremend, tremendous fear.

Speaker 4 (15:46):
Yeah, yeah, and, and it was.
It was displaying itself in away that it was clearly mentally
ill like there is mentalillness involved and and like
there would also be elements ofuh, like obsessive, compulsive
things.
Like I, I would have to docertain things to feel that I
could continue on with my day,um, in order to get past some of
these things.
Like I would have to do certainthings to feel that I could
continue on with my day, um, inorder to get past some of these

(16:09):
things.
And uh, yeah, so that they,they started taking me to a, uh,
another psychologist when I was21,.
You know when I would see thisguy a couple of times.
Um, I tried.
I tried a couple other thingstoo, I think, like hypnotherapy
and stuff like that, and youknow there was no solution.

(16:30):
It just kept going and uh, Iremember it eventually got to
the point where we were at a um,and and I was brutally
depressed at this.
You can imagine, you know Iwasn't, I wasn't getting out, I
wasn't having fun, um, and uh, Iwas doing everything I could to
to, you know, with we did havethe internet at that time.

(16:52):
So we were, you know, trying to.
I was trying to figure thingsout on my own.
You know what kind of solutionsthere and I tried every
alternative sort of thing youcan imagine.
And um, yeah, we, I, we were atthis appointment and, uh, I
ended up having this panicattack during the appointment

(17:12):
and it.
It was to the point where, youknow I, I told the guy like I'm
ready to turn the off button onlife here.
The this is, this is beyondhorrible and I've been dealing
with that for the past couple ofyears.
Of those thoughts, right.
And so they admitted me to thehospital.

(17:37):
I was seen right away, put in,stayed there for five days and
they put me on benzodiazepinesand antidepressants and you know
the uh.
I remember actually having agood time in the hospital
because, like it was, it was um,because obviously the drugs

(18:00):
worked, you know they.
They instantly put me in astate of like.
Obviously the drugs worked,right, you know they.
They instantly put me in astate of like.
I was just in a dream and uh,so I stayed there, got out, um
and continued on the uh, the newcycle of now I'm on these meds
and uh, what is, what is lifelike now?

(18:21):
And so, uh, so what was lifelike now?

Speaker 2 (18:22):
And so uh so what was life like?

Speaker 4 (18:24):
life.
Uh, you know, from my, from mypoint of view, it got way better
, right Cause now I was able togo out again and, um, you know,
I was able to, to live, toeventually get a job again.
I, you know, started working,started seeing my friends again,
Um, I could, uh, could, on thesurface look normal.

(18:46):
You know, there was always fearin the back of my mind and I
would still get a panic attackhere and there.
But, yeah, I was taking thesemedications and thinking, okay,
well, this is life.
Now.
There wasn't any hugeadventures because I was, you
know, afraid still, but Ithought, well, maybe that's just

(19:09):
who I am.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
You were afraid, but it wasn't debilitating like it
was before, without themedication Exactly.
So how long were you on themedication?

Speaker 4 (19:17):
Seven years total, yeah, yeah.
So during this time of being onthe medication, I developed
like a chronic pain sort ofsyndrome where I was always like
the tension in my body was socrazy that all the muscles in my

(19:38):
shoulders and neck wereconstantly rigid and you know
just headaches all the time andyou know just just pain and uh
the it, it got really, really,really bad.
Uh, you know, there was, therewas points where I, you know
just laying in bed, you know, onthe verge of tears because

(19:58):
you're just so frustrated withwith how much pain you're in and
and uh, you know there's,there's nothing you can do about
it.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
So what years would this have been like when you,
when you, got on the medicationroughly, what was the year?
So I was 21.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
Um, so that would be, you know, 15 years ago.

Speaker 5 (20:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:17):
Um, and I would say the, the, the, the pain, you
know, started very shortly afterthat.
The pain, you know, startedvery shortly after that and what
I believe it was now is justthat inward manifestation of the
anxiety, like your body's justholding on to it and there's no
outlet really.

(20:37):
And so that eventually led meto the place where, you know, I
don't want to just skip over allmy 20s, uh, you know I don't
want to just skip over all mytwenties, but you know I just
lived a relatively normal lifefrom from being 21 to about 28.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
But you had mentioned yesterday it was almost like a
fog, right?
Yes, With those drugs.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Yeah, so, so, unknowing to me at the time,
they really blunted my abilityto feel emotions properly and
you know I'd have relationshipsduring these years and you know
they'd always be fleeting andand, and you know I was always

(21:23):
the.
You know I still had a lot offluctuation in my, in my ability
to, to be normal.
I guess you know like I'd haveum times where I, where you know
the anxiety does get the betterof me and stuff like that, and
the depression and things, um,and being a super introspective,
inward, inwardly focused personto you, you, it almost

(21:46):
amplifies things, right, um.
So, yeah, the uh and anddealing with that, along with
the pain as well, is like it'sjust a mixture for nothing.
Good, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
So seven years, yeah.
What makes you stop themedication?

Speaker 4 (22:04):
Seven years.
Yeah, what makes you stop themedication?
So at that time I was in my jobof being a tattooer, and the
pain is just too much now andI'm trying to find a solution to
it.
And I ended up contacting awoman off the internet that I

(22:30):
had read about.
You know, she was about painand I can't even remember
specifically what it was, but Ido remember she replied me and
she's like oh, you're onbenzodiazepines, you, that's
what's happening.
You've built a tolerance andthey're, they're causing
something in there.
And I was like oh, yeah well,the the doctors have been saying
for years that oh, youshouldn't be on this very long
uh, which really you're onlysupposed to be on benzos for

(22:52):
like two weeks max.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
And you're on for seven years, yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:56):
Yeah and uh, and so I'm like, okay, well, that makes
sense.
Um, let's try and get off ofthe like.
You know it should be as easyas you know.
You cut them down, whatever,and that was not the way it went
.
It was horrible trying to getoff of these.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
So where'd you go?
What did you have to do to getoff?
To wean yourself off?

Speaker 4 (23:30):
So I first started by just breaking them into pieces,
um, taking a little less eachday, and now the panic attacks
are starting to get strong againand I'm like, well, that's,
that's not very nice, um, and soI I do my own research, trying
to figure things out.
Uh, the doctor I was seeingwouldn't help me at all with
this.
So I tried seeing anotherdoctor and I'm like, I
researched, okay, uh, valium,which is a benzodiazepine as
well like I was on clonazbem,and uh, valium has a much longer

(23:53):
half-life and I've heard ofpeople using that uh and
diluting it in water and thentaking a little bit less, and
then it's just gentler on yourbody is what it is supposed to
be.
So I found a doctor that wouldagree to that, tried doing it,
and my body didn't agree withthat.
I dropped weight like crazy.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Did you have weight to drop?

Speaker 4 (24:17):
No, so I'm 6'1" and I was probably 125 when I started
this, and so I got to the pointwhere I looked so horrible that
I didn't even want to step onthe scale, and my parents were
concerned for sure.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Why did the doctor not want?
Like the original doctor, didhe just not want you to pull off
that medication?
You?

Speaker 4 (24:42):
know he wouldn't really give me the time of day.
Not want you to pull off thatmedication, you know I don't, he
wouldn't really give me thetime of day.
I was just not.
Uh, there was, there was nocare involved you know part of
the Canadian healthcare system.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, itwas uh, uh, I got nothing good
to say about that, um, but uh,yeah.

(25:03):
So I started trying, trying todo this, this, uh, valium,
tapered withdrawal, and uh, itwas just not working.
And I found, uh, I startedresearching, like benzodiazepine
, specific um clinics, you know,and uh, there was nothing in

(25:23):
Canada that I could find thatthat would service that.
And um, so what I did find wasa place in San Diego to go, and
that's what their their thingwas, and it was the, the.
The treatment was they hook youup to um, a, uh, um, a, uh
vitamin solution, uh, nad, whichis, uh, some derivative of B

(25:47):
vitamins, and it uh, basicallyflushes out the benzos.
And they say, hi, success rate,you're all good.
And uh, I was like, well,that's awesome.
Uh, you know it was veryexpensive, um, but uh, I went,
we went and did it, cause, likeit was, it was life or death at
that time, and my parents knewthat.

(26:08):
And so my mom came down with meand, uh, just that trip, that
was a hard trip to make, right,because I'm struggling to just
get on a plane and because ofthe anxiety.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
So how did you do that?

Speaker 4 (26:25):
Uh well, I mean, there was no.
There's no other option.
Your back was against the wall.
Yeah, so I do it and you knowyou can.
You can imagine what someonewho's scared is like, Like I'm
clinging to my mom.
I'm twenty six years old.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Probably a hundred pounds yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:40):
Yeah, and, and, and, and, just just going you know,
and I didn't.
At this time I didn't havefaith, you know, in the Lord.
It was from my perception.
It was all on my own and youknow I'll find out later that

(27:04):
you know the amount of prayingmy mom was doing for me.
That was.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
An amazing woman.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (27:14):
I'm sure my dad too, like my whole family, really
they're the support that I hadover my life has been, you know,
fantastic, because you know,I'm sure things would have went
a lot different if I didn't havethat support.
For sure, For sure.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
So you, so you go to San Diego, you go through this
treatment.
Do you remember what that waslike?

Speaker 4 (27:35):
Yeah, oh yeah, so I'm hooked up to the, the IV, uh,
the doctor they're very, verynice guy Um, the nurse is there
too, uh and um.
So you're, basically, you'rejust hooked up to an iv?
Uh for like eight or ten hoursa day and you just sit there and
uh, the.
They try and keep the, the, thedrip as as uh steady and as

(28:01):
fast as you can tolerate, andman, that's quite the, the, the
sensation.
So this, this fluid is goinginto you at a pretty steady
degree and the, the way thatthey kind of uh gauge how, how
much you can take is thepressure on your chest of like

(28:21):
when this is going through intoyour arm.
You know, you, you get to thepoint where it's just it's like
someone standing on your chest.
That's, uh, that's how it feels, it's, it's pretty wild and um,
you know, I'm just there takingit and uh, we're, we're staying
at a?
Um, a hotel, you know, but mymom is in the room with me
during the day, um, uh and uh,she's, you know, there with me

(28:49):
and just watching me drip away,and uh, yeah, so that and, I'm
sure, praying, you know thatthis works.
Yeah, yeah, and um, the, uh, thethat goes on, for I think we're
there 10 or 11 days.
Um, you know, and I'm I'mstruggling with, with this

(29:11):
experience, like it's uh, it'suh, each, each day is dealing
with these horrible panicattacks while this is happening,
and, um, because like the waythese panic attacks work and
it's not like I, um, becauselike the way these panic attacks
work and the it's not like Idon't even think calling it a
panic attack is the right word.
Right, it's just you.
You feel like you're justconstantly dying Like this, the,

(29:37):
just the fear of death is justconstantly upon you.
Um, and uh, like it's anoverwhelming sense of doom just
just constantly on you and um,you know, I'll find out
eventually.
You know that it's, it's adisorder of some, some other
type.
Uh, down the road.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, so so you, you leave San Diego.

Speaker 4 (30:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
You go back home?
Yeah, are you back to normal?

Speaker 4 (30:06):
No, not even close.
So leaving San Diego, gettingon that plane, was one of the
hardest things, because I hadlike a few little crumbs left of
these benzodiazepines left thatI hadn't thrown out yet.
And so the night before weleave I'm in that hotel room
with my mom just losing my mindin in fear, uh, for this, this

(30:33):
uh plane ride that we have tohave.
And, um, you know I, I I'mlooking at these pills and I'm
like I might have to do to takethem again, like all this would
be for nothing.
And, uh, you know I, I wish Icould remember the moment better

(30:57):
, but I, I remember there was a,there was a bit of letting go
there.
That really happened and weended up getting on the plane
and made it.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
And you didn't take those pills.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
No no, I didn't take the pills because you know it
would have ruined everything,you know.
But yeah, so I threw those out.
We got back home and I thoughtlike, especially after I did get
to talk to someone else whowent through this and they said
they were great.
So I get home and I'm not great.

(31:34):
I ended up being awake for 11days straight after that.
Just, I don't know what wasgoing on, but my body didn't
like whatever was happening andI I ended up finding out that
there's something called postwith acute post withdrawal
system syndrome, um fromBenzodiazepines 11 days yeah.

(31:55):
Of not sleeping, of not sleeping.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Where was your mind at?

Speaker 4 (31:59):
Oh, it was.
I don't know where it was.
It was.
I don't know where it was.
It was in such a fog, you know,like I, really I can barely
remember anything of that time.

(32:26):
You know, and the I do remember,I couldn't read things like
trying to look at a gas stationsign or something like couldn't
couldn't even tell what I waslooking at because it was blurry
.
Yeah, I think so.
I think I think my mind wasjust in so much of a fog that,
you know, you can't really tellwhat's going on.
And um, yeah, like, Ieventually get to sleep after
those 11 days and and I don'twant to say I'm starting to get

(32:49):
back to normal, but I'm startingto become a little bit more
functional, you know, and intotal, at that time I took off
six weeks of work.
And here's the thing thing tooabout this whole situation I am
working while this is happening,like, and my parents being as

(33:15):
supportive as they are when Iwas young, they always made it
so that you still have to liveessentially is what they
instilled in me, and so I clungto working, even if it was only

(33:38):
for two hours a day sometimesand only once or twice a week, I
would still do my tattoos orwhatever I need to do during
during these years.
And so, um, yeah, that's.
I'm sure I'm sure my clientscould tell I was probably like
like a little bug-eyed while I'm, while I'm working.

(33:59):
But you know, I really clung tothat because otherwise you're
staying at home and just likebeing consumed.
Yeah, you're trapped yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
So how long did this go on, where you were kind of in
this fog?
So you go seven years on thesedifferent medications, you go
away for 10, 11, 12 days to SanDiego and you come home after
going through that essentialdetox right.
And how long was this nextperiod of your life just trying

(34:30):
to get back on your feet?

Speaker 4 (34:33):
Uh, I would say that that the the withdrawal syndrome
took a total of about three anda half years to work its way
out and it went through variousstages.
There's waves and you know Iread online, like there's forums
or whatever of people who haveexperienced similar things and

(34:55):
yeah, you go through waves andtroughs of these feelings Highs
and lows, Highs and lows yeah,like some days are a little more
functional, some days are not.
You know you go through feelinglike.
For me, there was this horriblefeeling of, like anger and just

(35:19):
like rage that you know I neveracted upon I'm not a person who
raised my voice or anythinglike that but it was like, like
just pure hatred of, of, of alllife really is is almost how I
felt for a for a good chunk ofthis this time.
Um, and like you know, yourbody goes through these weird

(35:41):
feelings.
Like you just feel like you'rehungover or just horribly sick.
You know the sensitivity tolight, like you can't look
outside when the sunlighttouches your skin.
You just feel like needles arerubbing against you All sorts,

(36:04):
um, all all sorts, and like Iwas telling you to the, it took
me a couple months before Icould actually read again and
and like decipher what I waslooking at on like a page of
paper.
Um, just the, the, the amount of, uh damage to your brain, I
guess the that, the this, thisdoes over that period of time,
um, it's, it's pretty wild, yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
So three, three and a half years.
What?
What makes the switch to towhere you're at now, cause
you're probably from, from whereyou're at now to, you know,
backing up to where you finallycome out of that a little bit.
How many years are we talkingright now?

Speaker 4 (36:42):
Yeah, so that, um, that's about what?
Six and a half years, I think.
Uh, or sorry, I should say thatwithdrawal period lasted from
when I was about 30 to or, or,let's see, I'm getting my
getting my days all mixed uphere.

(37:03):
Here.
I went into treatment when Iwas 26 or 27.
Uh, so, yeah, it's probablystarted to become.
I started to get a little bitmore normal in in my early
thirties.
Okay, yeah, 33 and I'm 36 rightnow, almost 37.
So what starts to happen is, youknow, over that period of time,

(37:27):
I start getting something thatI had researched back in the day
, after hearing about MichaelaPeterson and her carnivore diet,

(37:51):
and so I remember reading aboutthis nurse who treated people
with agoraphobia, which is, Iguess, what you would call what
I had which is, I guess, whatyou would call what I had just
the fear of being out and awayfrom help and she treated them
with high doses of B vitamins.
And so I tried it.

(38:14):
I just went to the store,bought some B1 and B6, and I
took them in high doses andwithin about two weeks, uh, the
the feeling of doom that wasalways around me was gone.
I just woke up one day.
I was like, oh, that'sdifferent.

(38:34):
And uh, then I started to putthe pieces together.
Like, well, if I I justresearched, what do b vitamins
do in your body?
Well, they metabolizecarbohydrates.
And so I thought, well, ifshe's got rid of all the carbs
and she's doing great.
Maybe it's time to try that,and I do.
I go on carnivore diet.

(38:55):
It takes about two months ofadjusting to it.
You know your body takes acouple months.
But yeah, I became like a newperson.
All all the uh, the fear, thepanic I haven't had a panic
attack since.
Um, all the, the doom gone, theasthma gone, like the the I I

(39:18):
had uh, like uh kind of a rashthat was all over my chest for
years and years Gone.
It was crazy, just wild how,and it's like you literally
become different, like a wholenew person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it is,you know, just crazy to start

(39:41):
living life and you're like, ohwow, I'm alive now.
Yeah, and it is, you know, justcrazy to start living life and
you're like, oh wow, I'm alivenow.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Yeah, for 30 plus years of your life, you lived in
this tremendous fear.

Speaker 5 (39:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
And then all of a sudden, it's like you're born
again, mm-hmm.
So where do you go with that?

Speaker 4 (39:58):
So, you know, I just start, you know, living a normal
life, enjoying things now thatI didn't get to enjoy before.
But I mean, there's remnantsright of these things.
So, you know, I'm still eventhough now I can go for a drive,
you know, to the beach,whatever, and I can make it you
know, there's always like thatbackground.

(40:20):
It's almost like fear becomes ahabit, right, um, and you're,
you're still still fighting thatto some degree in all things,
like I, I picked up hunting andI really enjoyed that and uh,
you know, it was a realchallenge for me to go to these
remote places, sometimes bymyself, and like I'm, I'm

(40:41):
sitting there and I'm stillstruggling.
Uh, even though the, the I feellike the problem is actually
gone, the, the it, it's like itleaves a scar, you know, on your
, on your soul, to a degreewhere you've got to uh, go
through that and and deal withit and um, yeah, so, uh, but

(41:03):
overall I'm my, but overall myquality of life has improved
substantially and, yeah, thingsare good.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
So, with everybody hearing that story, you know,
and how you and I met was, youknow, in the North Georgia
mountains on our 24 hour trek.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
So you know, I want everybody to keep that in mind
here's a guy who was essentiallytrapped in your room in the
fetal position for hours uponhours of a time, because you may
have been scared of a plantthat your parents brought home
or picking up some sort ofdisease or something you were
just you know home, or pickingup some sort of disease or

(41:44):
something you were just you know, completely shut down in your
bedroom, trapped for many, manyyears to go through all those
things.
And then you decide, at somepoint in time, faith comes back
in your life and you decide I'mgoing to sign up for a 24-hour
trek with some Navy SEAL and abunch of crazy other dudes.

(42:05):
So kind of fast forward to thatpoint where faith comes back in
your life.
You are introduced to ChadWright and the 3 of 7 Project,
and why in the world you wouldeven consider signing up for
something?
Because had you been on a plane?

Speaker 4 (42:23):
yes, before that yeah , yeah, I had uh a couple times,
but again, those times were allwith uh drugs you know, yeah,
like, uh, I went, I wentoverseas, uh, and, and I was on
clonazepam the whole time.
You know, the, uh, uh, the, and, and I did, um, I think I

(42:48):
probably went on a plane maybetwice after the this whole thing
, uh, after I got off of thedrugs, um, but you know it's, it
was extremely uncomfortable forme, uh, it's, it's very hard
and so so.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
So when did faith start to come back in your life?

Speaker 4 (43:07):
I would say it, it, it started building over the
last two years two, two, two tothree years.
It started, uh, building itselfand I I didn't even know
realize that that's what washappening.
Um, but uh, there's just littlethings that start kind of
creeping in, uh, where you startrealizing things and and um,
you know, I've always thought alot about morality and what is

(43:33):
good and what is evil in my mind, and and it uh that that led me
, I think, in the direction abit as well as the fact that I,
um, and I think this comes withhaving a lot of problems is that

(43:56):
you become inwardly focused, uh, like I was already an
introspective person, but whenyou you start being consumed by
your problems, your problemsbecome bigger than everyone
else's to you, and and it leadsto selfishness.
And you know, after coming outof the, the withdrawal period,

(44:21):
you know I was, I, I was sodisgusted with myself and how
selfish I was just in mythinking and and and everything
that that you know, I felt likeI couldn't love at all.
I couldn't, I couldn't, myability to love was, was gone,

(44:45):
and you know, the, therealization I have now is is
that you know, god is love.
That is, that's where, that'swhere the love truly is, and
it's in that, that that's wherethe love truly is.
And it's in that sacrifice ofyourself to others that love is

(45:11):
truly shown.
And realizing that Jesus wasthat in its perfect is, it just
cracked me right open and uh,and that's how I found him.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
That's amazing, yeah, so at some point you decide or
you hear about this rite ofpassage thing with the three of
seven project.
Kind of talk about that andwhat made you think I need to do
that?

Speaker 4 (45:44):
So I'd say, um, it was.
It was this past October that Isigned up for it.
Uh, we were on, my girlfriendand I, uh, we were on our way
back to Winnipeg from Boston, wewent there for a concert and,

(46:04):
uh, on the way back, I waslistening to a podcast with Chad
and, uh, and he talked about,um, the, the rite of passage,
and you know, he said, oh yeah,it's the hardest thing that we
offer, and I don't knowsomething about it just uh,
clicked and I was like, yeah,this is what I gotta do.

(46:26):
And and and I remember tellingfrancesca my girlfriend, I was
like, yeah, I gotta do this.
And so this is, um, so octoberis what?
Six, seven or eight months ago?
um yeah and uh.
So the right about this time iswhen I'm starting to truly

(46:46):
realize that that, uh, jesus isthe way, and it was probably
only you know, like I.
I think I was already realizingthis at that time because I was
getting more involved withlearning about his sacrifice and

(47:10):
just the.
I think I was looking more intothe intellectual side of that
of of that and, um, I startedwanting to go to church and I
was like watching tele, or nottelevised, but like, um, virtual
church sessions and stuff likethat.

(47:31):
Yeah, yeah exactly yeah and, andit just started becoming more
and more apparent that this isthat god is real, and that this
is that God is real, and thatthis is this is it.
This is the truth, and yeah,that's when I like.

(47:51):
Very shortly after I had signedup for that, I gave my life to
Christ and the fruits of thathave been just unbelievable.
You know as soon as thathappened and uh like, and the
biggest is is being able to love, uh to, to love other people

(48:14):
and um, the, the.
I mean you can't, you can't puta price on that.
It's unbelievable, you can't,no, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
So you sign up, mm-hmm, you give your life to
Christ.
Yep, the event is the end ofJune, right?
What kind of training did youdo?

Speaker 4 (48:37):
So my perception of what the rite of passage was is
it was.
I underestimated it severely.
So you know, at first we getback and it's October and I'm
like, yeah, I'm going to train,I'm going to get up every day
and go and climb.
We've got a pretty steep hill.

(48:58):
It was a landfill but now it'sa park.
I'm like I'm gonna climb thisthing every day and uh, in my
mind I've built it up like, yeah, I'm gonna start a half an hour
a day and then build up.
So I did.
I started getting up at five inthe morning going to this hill,
doing it up and down, forstarted a half an hour and like
it never progressed more thanthat.

(49:19):
There was one day.
There was one day where my,where my timer didn't go off and
I did 45 minutes.
But but then winter comes andyou know that hill becomes just
pure ice.
You can't even go up it.
It's so steep.
So, um, yeah and uh, and so Ijust you know what everyone in
Winnipeg pretty much does is wejust withdraw for the winter and

(49:41):
do nothing.

Speaker 5 (49:42):
You know what?

Speaker 4 (49:42):
everyone in Winnipeg pretty much does is we just
withdraw for the winter and donothing?
And for anyone listening whodoesn't know, it gets to minus
40 Celsius there, Like it'shorrible, yeah and yeah.
So then once summer startscoming around, I do go back to
the hill a bit more once thesnow starts thawing, but I
didn't take any sort of serioustraining involved, and so about

(50:06):
a month before the thing, mygirlfriend and I we decided okay
, well, we got to start going onsome walks here, so the first
one we go on is probably a monthand a half before the ROP, and
it's a before the ROP and it's a.
We walk 15 kilometers and thatwas a rude awakening and but you

(50:36):
know, whatever I was like, okay, I got to start taking it more
seriously and then so I do startdoing a lot more like
exercising and stuff like that.
And then you know, a monthlater or two weeks later, we do
40 kilometers, which that'spretty good go, we did it in
nine hours.
Her dad came with us, okay, andthat was actually so fun.

(51:02):
But during this thing.
So I had experienced oncebefore that when I tried getting
into running a couple yearsback and I did a 10K and through
the 10K I ended up getting ITBsyndrome, like I can't pronounce

(51:23):
it, I ileothelial band orwhatever it is.
Anyways, it's a super painfulthing where you've got this big
band of tissue on the side ofyour leg that goes from your hip
to your knees and it startsrubbing against your knee
because of tension and becomessuper painful.
And so when I did that 10 K, um, you know that started hurting

(51:45):
at about six kilometers in anduh, and I I had come.
You know, I dealt with it thatday and it was, it was really
painful, but, um, you know,whatever, and I I didn't really
think much about that until Ilike it was in the back of my
mind a bit, but during the hillclimbs and stuff it never
bothered me.
So I was like, oh, maybe it'sall better.

(52:05):
Um, fingers crossed, yeah, sowe do this 40 K walk and uh, on
kilometer 15, it starts comingback and I'm like, oh no, by
kilometer 18, it's like, oh, thepain's about an eight or nine
out of ten.

(52:26):
And uh, I'm starting thinking,oh, this is some some rough
stuff here yeah and then youknow we continue the whole 40
and by the end of the 40 I'mlike oh, I can't extend my legs
anymore like my knees.
I'm doing like a stiff walk,like like a like a peg leg kind
of walk, because it's extremelypainful 40k is how many miles?

(52:49):
I was waiting for you to do themath it's 24 miles okay yeah,
about half of what we did, yeah,and so the night after that we
get home and we're all, we'reall sore, but I'm like extremely

(53:09):
, extremely sore and uh, I'm inbed at night and the pain is
like excruciating, absolutelyexcruciating, and, um, I end up
like I can't really go up anddownstairs.
You got to kind of like likecrab walk almost to get up and

(53:30):
down down to the bed, like fromthe bedroom to them, and so I
came down the the followingmorning and it was like
unbelievable how painful it was.
Um, and uh, you know, I, I, Ididn't, I, I honestly thought
that I wouldn't be able to dothe rap because it was so bad.

(53:53):
Like I thought, oh, I'm gonnahave to drop out, like I don't
even know if I'm gonna befunctional, because after I did
that 10k, it took a few daysbefore I could even bend my
knees and yeah.
But now the crazy thing is, Icame downstairs that day, I went
into the shower and I put myhands on my knees and I like,

(54:18):
just in tears, like said to theLord, if you can take this away,
please, if it's your will, doit.
And no joke, I walked out ofthere like nothing even happened
out of the shower and it waslike I was in shock.
I show Francesca and I'm likeit's like, wow, that's pretty
wild.

(54:38):
That's pretty wild and that,along with a couple other things
before that, led up to the ROP,led me to really believe that's
where I was supposed to be.
Because, yeah, like, what doyou do about that, right, when

(54:59):
you experience that?

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
You asked and received Mm-hmm when you, when
you experienced that yeah.
Yeah, you, you asked andreceived and, uh, yeah, so.
So then, fast forward togetting on the plane.
I mean, knowing your story,that's what blew me away
yesterday as we talked and just,I mean everybody.
Think about what Ray's talkedabout.
You know, growing up and theand the battles he faced and all

(55:23):
those challenges, um, in yourlife, and the anxiety and the
stress and all that stuff thatyou had had been through
mentally.
And now it's time to get on aplane by yourself, fly to the
States to go through somethingyou know is going to hurt, Like
I.
I know how I felt, I know theanxiety that I felt, but I

(55:44):
didn't battle what you battled.
So talk about that time goingto the airport, getting on the
plane and making that flightyeah.

Speaker 4 (55:51):
So the the day before I'm supposed to go on the plane
, um, I, uh, I have a littledaily Bible verse that pops up
and the one I get is from Isaiah, and it's those who hope in the

(56:11):
Lord will renew their strengthand they will soar on wings like
eagles and they will run andnot, they will walk and not grow
weary, they will run and notgrow faint.
And hopefully I said that oneproperly.
But, man, seeing that at thattiming, it was just like, oh,

(56:32):
okay, that put a lot ofconfidence in me that I'm going
the right place, place, and so,um, that, uh, that was always in
the back of my mind as I'mgetting on this plane and I'm
going into the, the, uh, it's a,it's a flying's a struggle for

(56:53):
me, um, but, uh, you know I'm,I'm at a place now where I do
have faith and it's um, and it'sdoable for me, you know, and I
get there and I, and as soon asI land, you know you get the
relief of, okay, I'm not in thesky anymore, and, uh, and, and I

(57:14):
get, I land in Atlanta and uh,I I end up having fun there.
You know, I'm just by myselfdriving around this big city and
I go to the aquarium and it'ssuper cool and everything.
And uh, then I go to my hoteland start start realizing what's
what's about to happen.
And uh, I wake up the next dayand make the two and a half hour

(57:40):
drive up to Rome and it's hot.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
It's so much hotter than I was expecting.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
It's hotter than Canada huh, oh, man, man.

Speaker 4 (57:52):
So the humidity, and I'm just like that fear starts
coming back where I'm like I'mnot prepared for heat.
I've had heat stroke before andit's horrible and I'm like the
doubts start creeping in.
I'm like am I going to get sickout there?
Am I going to?
you know start.
Am I going to die because ofheat stroke?
Am I going to whatever?

(58:13):
And it starts that I'm doing agood job of keeping that like
cyclical thinking of of horriblestuff at bay.
Um, you know, it's definitelynot like like what it used to be
, where it's all consuming, butyou know that that fear is still
there and it's so frustratingto come that far and to to still

(58:36):
have that um and uh.
But whatever, I'm like I camethis far, let's keep going.
Um, and and I even said tomyself when I was in Rome, after
I had lunch there, I was justlike man, I could, I could go
home right now and I've, I've,I've done more for this than

(58:57):
like I'd be happy is what Ithought at that time.
That's what I told myself.
And uh, but I'm like, oh, thelet's keep going.
So I go there, uh, make it tothe campsite and uh, I'm the
third person to show up.
Uh, billy and um and Matt areboth there, yeah and uh, so

(59:17):
they're awesome to to be thefirst ones that I meet them.
And and uh, they're super cool.
Uh, but I'm sitting there andthey're they're not struggling
with the heat and I'm sittingthere.
I'm like man, I'm just kind ofpouring water on myself and, um
and uh, everyone starts showingup and and I look around and I'm

(59:37):
like, oh man, these areeveryone's fit, everyone's, you
know.
I start thinking, well, I'm inthe wrong place here, and like
it's pretty apparent that I'mthe smallest guy, physically not
even comparable to everyoneelse, and I'm thinking, man, I'm

(59:59):
in for it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Well, little did you know.
We were all thinking the samething Exactly, and we all face
the same anxiety.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
And and you know you expressing that to me, uh,
before we we started really didhelp so much.
You know, just just uh, youknow, relieving and and and
sharing that experience yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Yeah, just just to let everybody know that you know
, hey, no matter how strong Imight've looked, or, or Tucker
or any of these other men lookedlike, we're still human, like
we were all still full of, ofanxiety and stress and doubt.
You know, have we done enoughtraining?
What's this going to?
Like the heat?

(01:00:43):
You know I hadn't been able totrain in that either, and so, uh
, we all face those same fears.
But but again, knowing yourstory like it is, it's truly
remarkable that you did fly intoAtlanta and then make the trek
up there to do it, cause, likeyou said, you could have very
easily turned around and wenthome and been like you know what

(01:01:04):
I gave it my best and probablyfelt okay.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
But it would have been a whole different
experience, not just for you but, for, you know, 17 other men,
yeah.
So we set up camp Chad comestalk about uh, and I, I want to,
I want to.
I haven't told this story yet.
You know, you and I talkedabout it, you obviously know.
So Chad comes in right and andBlake and chili and cornbread,

(01:01:32):
and they kind of lay the groundrules and talk about what, what
to expect and what the rules areand all those things, and then
they do a bag check.
Well, me, being the selfishperson that I am, you know one
of the items on the mandatorylist was a raincoat.
And so, you know, ray and I arenext to each other on the
picnic table, got our bags allopened up and Chad's coming
around and I hear he's checkingsomebody beside me and I hear

(01:01:55):
him say you got.
The first thing he said was yougot your raincoat.
And I thought, oh shit, I leftthe raincoat at the house on
purpose because I thought I, I'mgoing to welcome the rain, like
, if it rains, I will gladlyaccept the water soaking me.
And uh, I mean, I'm just in mymind now.
I'm panicking, like, like, ishe not going to let me go?

(01:02:18):
So he comes in, let me see yourrain gear and I kind of mumbled
, fumbled around and and youinstantly spoke up and you said,
hey, I got an extra raincoatand I'm like Holy cow and now I
know you are Jesus because ofeverything that we went through.
But that experience was like youknow.

(01:02:39):
That started to expose howselfish of a person I was,
because I the mandatory listwasn't that big and we'd had it.
That's the only thing that we'dhad for six months prior.
To know what was, you know, toexpect.
And here I didn't bring it.
If you want to show it up, Idon't know, maybe they wouldn't
have let me go, I don't know.
I don't know what the rulewould have been.
Um, so right there, you savedme, you know, and that wasn't,

(01:03:01):
that wasn't the first time.
So to kind of talk about thatexperience for you, as we were,
as we were doing the gear checkand going through that night, so
so Chad comes and sits us alldown and he the.

Speaker 4 (01:03:12):
The thing that really rattled me is like he he starts
saying this is not a placewhere you come and just try to
do your best and then you get toquit.
Know, part way through he saysthere's there's real
consequences for your, for youractions out there.
That there's.
There's not if, if, like, we'regoing into remote places where

(01:03:34):
there, if you need to get out,you you got to walk out.
You know there's no, there's noone coming to save you.
And I never thought about that,as you know, uh, and that that
shook me right up because I'mlike man, that is the thing that

(01:03:54):
I am most scared of is beingsomewhere far away from help and
and having something happen and, um, and man that's that just
said a, a type of type ofthinking that really took me to

(01:04:15):
some, some bad places throughoutthat night.
And so, uh, as soon as he saidthat, you know we go through the
gear check and everything, andI'm so flustered, I'm trying to
figure out what I need and Iprobably I probably went back
and forth from my tent to thecar, to the bag like five times
and didn't even do anything Iwas so mixed up, man and um and

(01:04:40):
uh yeah.
Then then the night came and wewe've as a team, decided okay,
we're getting up at 315.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Now hold on back up a little bit, because we divided
up into teams and we had toselect leaders.
Oh, that's right, yep yep, weselected leaders and you were
selected team one's leader.

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
Yeah, yeah, so it was , the two youngest guys were
nominated and it was, uh, caseyand I and, um, what'd you think
about that?
You know, I, I was kind of Idon't want to say I was happy
about it, but I was like, okay,well, if, if it's, if this is
going to be the hardest thing,then let it be the hardest thing
, um, so, so I was like I'm okaywith that responsibility.

(01:05:24):
You know, I'm not, I'm not agood leader, like that type of
personality, I don't think.
But I, I care about doing that,so so I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
You were the perfect leader.
You really were.
Thanks, man so starts to getdark, we all go to bed or try to
talk.

Speaker 4 (01:05:47):
Talk about your experience in your tent so my
tent was the uh, I got it for 40dollars, uh, because it was the
the smallest thing I could findand it was literally just the
size of my body.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
Yeah um, you look like you were the hot dog and
your tent was the bun.

Speaker 4 (01:06:07):
Exactly, it was so horrible, there was no
ventilation on it, it wasraining, it was raining, it was
hot, it was hot, and I was justin there, petrified, cooking,
and just covered in sweat.
I've got, I've got this onelittle bottle of liquid IV next
to me and, uh, and I'm, I'm soscared that I got up four times

(01:06:33):
throughout the night to pee.
I didn't, I didn't sleep asingle wink at all.
Um, I probably peed two litersof water.
That's how, like, just fear pee, you know.
And I get back in my tent eachtime and I'm like drinking, I
drink half of this thing and I'mlike I'm going to be so
dehydrated in the morning.
And like and I'm watching thetime tick away we got no service

(01:07:01):
.
I'm like desperately trying toget my phone reception to get
like a Bible verse forencouragement really.
And you know, the time justkeeps going and I'm just like
getting more into dread reallyand it's three o'clock rolls

(01:07:25):
around.
I got up at three.
It was 3.15 that everyone wassupposed to be up.
I got up at three, just startedwalking around and just not
having a good time.
Yeah, just worry fear, doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
So, everybody wakes up, we all get our stuff and you
know cause we had to be readybetween four and eight, um, and
you know we're all just sittingthere ready, waiting.
I mean that was, uh, I remembersitting next to you on the
picnic table and you know, Iknow how I felt and I remember
looking at you and I could justsee it in your face, you know,
like tremendous fear and um andanxiety, and you know just

(01:08:02):
trying to be encouraging.
You know cause we were allfeeling the same thing, um, so
you know we go through that time, would you say mentally.
Well, I'm not even going to saythat.
You know that that was a verydifficult time for, I think, for
all of us for me it wasprobably the most challenging
time was that that night before.

Speaker 5 (01:08:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
Just that stress and that anxiety and that doubt.
I had never really feltsomething that powerful where I
just felt like what have I done?
Yeah and um, so let's fastforward.
They, they, they pick us up,and now we're on our way to the
trail.

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
Yeah, yeah, so we're, we're on our way.
Um, I, I actually reallyenjoyed that.
Uh, that drive there cause I,I'm sitting up at the front, uh,
I, I've got the.
So, um, even before we gotgoing, um, I was super impressed

(01:08:59):
with with everybody there.
Like everyone was awesome, thepersonalities, the genuineness
of everyone there, incredible.
So that was really cool andjust knowing you got a bunch of
really awesome guys behind youis fantastic.

(01:09:20):
And then I'm sitting up at thefront, blake and Chili, blake's
driving, chili's in thepassenger seat, and you know, I
got to have a nice littleconversation with them just
about faith and you know justhow things are going and I
really enjoyed that.
They were awesome.
And I seen two armadillos onthe road.

(01:09:40):
I never even seen an armadillobefore, and so that was cool.
But then, you know, after, afterthat drive, we get to the place
and I look up and, oh, likethat's a mountain, that's a real
mountain, you know.
And so the doors open and andchili explained, like the way

(01:10:03):
this works is, I start going andyou guys get into formation and
there's no fussing around.
It's like you're going andthose doors open and we weren't
the cleanest uh getting out ofhere, and so, um, team, team, uh
, 2 ends up being in front.
We get out there.

(01:10:24):
It's not clear who's goingfirst.
And so we get a little bit of akick in the butt from Chad.
And so Team 2 starts going, andthey're going fast up that hill
.
And that was shocking how notonly how the pace that they
started off with, but the rateof incline of elevation change.

(01:10:47):
I was like, oh man, this firsthalf hour is brutal man.
It's way more than I wasexpecting, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
Yeah, I have the same feeling.
I thought this pace is going tobe difficult to maintain for me
.
And then, looking around atsome of the other guys, thinking
it's not just going to be methat's going to be struggling
with this.
So we take off, we're truckingthrough, we finally catch up.
I think Jamie may have yelledup front I don't know if Alan
was in front, or whoever was infront was like hey, slow the

(01:11:18):
pace down, we're not going to beable to maintain this.
Not everybody's going to beable to maintain this.
At what point in time did youstart to feel it, start to feel
some pain?

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
Um, it was.
It was about two hours in, Ithink that it became really
apparent that, okay, that thatknee thing that I was hoping was
not going to be an issue is aserious thing, like it's showing
itself.
And we went up right and on thedecline, the first decline,

(01:11:55):
that's when I was like, oh man,this is way too soon for this to
be happening.

Speaker 2 (01:12:01):
You got 22 hours to go, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:12:04):
And so that started happening and I was like
whatever, it's just pain.
I can't show it Like.
The atmosphere that this teamhad, you know it was that the
team was first right and I thinkthat probably caught all of us.

(01:12:28):
We didn't understand what thatmeant.
No, we didn't, you know,because to sign up for this it
probably is a secondary thing tothink about the team.
You're thinking what can I do?
How far can I go?
But um, the, the realization islike okay, now I'm part of this

(01:12:50):
team, they are counting on meand I can't show that it's a
problem and I tried not to forthe first bit.
You know, I really did my bestto, but I think that the limp
became apparent, uh, fairlyquickly, um, and I know, once we
got to that first resupply, uh,you could tell their reaction

(01:13:11):
from chad that I was like, oh,there's some doubts on this guy,
and I was still water all overmyself and I was like I was so
flustered, um, because that thatwas the, the, the course was so
much harder than what I wasexpecting.
You know, I I didn't know thatwe were really climbing

(01:13:32):
mountains, cause that's what wewere doing, man, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
So we get through that, for the first resupply was
a little chaotic, cause it wasour first one not really knowing
what to do.
I think we got through itpretty good as a team and that
set the foundation for the nextones to come.
But I didn't, I didn't noticeyour struggle until after it,
when we got close to that secondresupply and we started coming
down that fire road.

(01:13:57):
And that's when, um, I startedto notice you know you were.
You were four or five guys upahead of me and I could start to
see you limping and then I'dhear Chad yell out up at you or,
if we weren't in in front, hewas wanting you to be in front.
Um, you or Casey, or Wesley insome cases, um, but talk about

(01:14:22):
that when we started coming downthat mountain to that second
resupply and I think it wasScott that grabbed your bag
first to try to help you kind ofgo through that sequence of
events.
Cause that's where I feel likefor me I can't speak for the
other guys and maybe I can'tspeak for you, but I feel like
that was the moment that kind ofgalvanized us as a team, like

(01:14:46):
it could have went the completeopposite way than what it did.
So, talk about that experiencecoming down that mountain before
that second resupply.

Speaker 4 (01:14:55):
Yeah.
So, um, coming down there, the,the, the pain was already.
It was full full power.
Basically it was.
It was really bad, um and uh theeven even before that moment

(01:15:17):
happened, the, the, the carethat was starting to be shown.
Like I, I was struggling, evenon that first ascent, with, with
, with, just in taking calories,and I was so fortunate to have
Ryan behind me who had donethese, these, some of the trails

(01:15:38):
nearby, like he was familiarwith it and he's an experienced
trail guy and you know heprovided me with some honey and
stuff and that snapped me rightback and I started to understand
how important it was toactually keep the food going and
and like that.
But man, he, having him behindme, caring about and kind of

(01:16:00):
instructing me and guiding me,like what you're going to be
feeling and stuff, superimportant.
Then, as we're coming down that, to that second resupply and
having, uh, the, the peoplebehind me start saying you got
this ray, like and and startingto notice and and, uh, you know,
showing that they cared, was,was pretty massive.

(01:16:21):
And then, you know, showingthat they cared, was pretty
massive.
And then you know Scott comingand taking my bag, like I
remember when he asked me do youwant me to take this bag from
you?
And I didn't.
No one wants to be the guy,right, but I was like it has to.
I can't so sure you know, hasto.

(01:16:48):
I can't so sure, you know, justhaving the, the humility, I
guess, to be able to, to, to letgo of that your pride there and
be like I'm a, like I, I canfully admit I was a wreck, like
physically not, I'm not capableof this on my own so it like I
was so grateful for that.
Um, and yeah, we, we startedgoing down to this second
resupply.
Uh, you know, I don't have mybag anymore.
I'm looking like a, you know,pretty rough and uh, and and

(01:17:13):
Chad starts showing up.
Ray, you look like you need aCoke and uh, you know that,
adding some, some lightness toit, you know, I think that
really did help.
Yeah, um, yeah and uh, and thefact that that at that second
resupply, um, that people helpedme, you know, fill my bottles

(01:17:37):
up and and and got me straight,like that, that I can't be
grateful enough.
More great Like.
I can't, I can't express mygratitude for that.
Yeah, you know, and thatcontinued throughout this whole
day.
Um and uh, yeah, it waspowerful.

Speaker 2 (01:17:55):
It was.
It was powerful at some pointin time.
Where was your mind at as faras like faith and um, did you
ever, you know, like what youdid in the shower when you're,
when he was killing you afteryou did that training?
Did you ever, you know, prayand say I need you, oh,
constantly.

Speaker 4 (01:18:15):
It was from the, from the moment we literally got
going and me realizing, oh, thisis so much worse than I was
expecting.
Um, I, I, I was, I was prayingthat whole day, just just
constantly.
You know, uh, asking to, foryou know, if he can take the
pain away, take it away.

(01:18:36):
If not, you know, let me bearit.
Um, if not, you know, let mebear it.
And you know, give me thestrength to go.
And I really did keep mygratitude for still being there.

(01:18:56):
Like I knew how important itwas to be there, like there
never once did, did I ever, um,get angry or spiteful at at this
situation?
You know, um, but like it was,so it was just so hard.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
It was so hard and yeah, but you kept taking the
step, but you kept, I step, butyou kept, I mean you were in the
front of the pack, you kepttaking that step, you, you kept
moving forward.
Um, it was incredible to, to bea part of and to see, to witness
, yeah, um, and like I've saidbefore I I don't know what would
have happened if you would havequit um, because you were that,
that leader, um, whether youthink you were or not, you were
who we were all following, nomatter how fast or how slow.
It was truly, truly incredibleand that's why you're here,

(01:19:58):
because my wife, she's like you.
You got to get Ray in personbecause it's obvious that he had
, you know that you had atremendous impact on me and my
experience, you know, and myfaith journey, you know, along
that whole track.
It just was an amazingexperience At any time, were you

(01:20:21):
done?

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
Oh yeah, experience at any time.
Were you done?
Oh yeah, there I I truly feltlike I was done, even before we
we got going to to some degreelike I, I just felt so defeated
a lot.
But you know, there was alwayssomething, whether it was a look
, a smile from you or or one ofthe other guys, um, or there was
always one thing there that wasjust like just enough to keep
me in it and uh, and that it wasamazing, the timing of things

(01:20:55):
throughout the day, because eachtime that I was at the end of
the rope, you know, there wassomething there and I'm one of
the biggest turning points waswhen we were, when we were going
through that.
It was a rocky decline section.
After this, after the firstresupply I think, um, it was the
first or second resupply- itwas when cornbread came up and

(01:21:18):
talked to me that first time anduh, you know, like, like I, I
truly wanted this experience tobe something where I learn how
to surrender.
That was my, that was my why,you know.
And uh, and he came up to meand and started talking about
that, like what surrender reallyis to the Lord.

(01:21:40):
And, you know, one of thethings he said that really shook
me was that, you know, the Lordmight have put these rocks all
on this trail here just for youto stumble over, as long as it's

(01:22:00):
, you know, given the glory tohim.
You know it's here for you tosurrender to.
That's what this whole pain is.
And in realizing that and likeknowing, because I didn't know

(01:22:23):
what surrender was, I didn'tknow what it was to give
yourself to something fullybefore this and to let the Lord
do his work.
You hear about that, you hearpeople say it oh, just give it
to the Lord.
What even is that?
What is faith?
And that?
What is what is faith?
And that that's where it is.

(01:22:45):
It's, it's in that release, uh,of your own will, and it's like
I, I remember, after he hadtalked to me about that and I
was thinking, like I.
I'm in so much pain and so muchfear here.
I don't want to, I don't evenwant to try to be here, and so I

(01:23:10):
said I was just like Lord putit in me to have the put it in
my heart, to want to persevere,because I don't even want that.
And he did Like and that thatis the.
The crazy thing is, when thatstarted, when that started
waking up in me throughout theday, um, it was like it's

(01:23:37):
unexplainable how, how strongthat that was.
Um, and and as the dayprogressed you know there was,
there was some highs and lows,but you know, into the night
that came fully out and it was,uh, it, it was one of the best
things I've ever felt in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
Yeah, to truly surrender, yeah, yeah, and to
continue to take that step,because you know, we talked
about it yesterday where I felt,like you know, in the beginning
for me was was difficultbecause you know I we don't have
mountains here in Ohio andIndiana, I mean, it's pretty
flat, you've seen it Um, so thatwas a hard thing to train for.
In the spring in Ohio it'sfairly cool.

(01:24:20):
We don't have the humidityuntil we get into where we're at
now and in in July and August.
So I couldn't train for that,um, but I felt like, as the
longer we went, the strongerthat I got.
You know, we talked yesterdayabout climbing up to the top of

(01:24:42):
the mountain, the last mountain.
I think that was the fourthresupply and that was the best
I'd felt.
I mean, just like I felt likebetter than I had ever felt in
any training and was like man,like this is, I got this, but
then you know, a couple hourslater coming down, you know it's

(01:25:03):
like you start hallucinatingbecause you're so tired and
you're seeing things, and youknow you talked about some
things that you saw and asked ifI'd seen them.
I don't remember seeing that.
But you know, so I know we werea lot of hallucinating because
of our exhaustion, but you know,it was just amazing, how you
know, for me I felt like thelonger it went, the stronger

(01:25:26):
that I got, and and I felt likeyou know that was coming off of
you because of seeing thestruggle in the beginning, but
then, as coming down themountain, uh, you know, there
towards the end, as we'regetting into the early morning
hours, I felt like you gotstronger.
I mean you, you were stillstruggling, right, I mean we
were all struggling, but, um, itdidn't seem as visible, you

(01:25:49):
know, and I I think that reallygalvanized us again as a team.
Like it was very apparent to mewhen we got to that four, three
supply on top of the mountain.
Like I don't think we're losinganybody.

Speaker 5 (01:26:01):
Like.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
I think we've got this.
I mean, there's guys struggling, but we got this like nothing's
going to stop us now.
Um, it was.
It was remarkable.

Speaker 4 (01:26:10):
Yeah, yeah.
And like as the day, as we got,I would say, into the afternoon
and uh and evening of thatfirst day there, that, um, you
know, the, the personalitiesstarted meshing really well and
and we, we were starting to getto know each other and, like the

(01:26:31):
, I don't think there could havebeen a better group of people,
right, right, like each, eachperson took a role on their own
to to to do a part of it, and itwas incredible and just to hear
people encouraging others whenthey needed it, you know, just

(01:26:54):
wild, like when we were goingdown towards the third resupply,
that was the hardest decline.
The hardest part of the wholeday, I think for me was that
section, because it was all downand um, uh, like my knees were
gone and uh and we were justgetting the dinner time.
Yeah and um, you know for therewas a section of there where

(01:27:21):
Casey was behind me and uh, chadwas kind of razzing, I think,
to go a little quicker and andlike I was in agony just like
nails being driven through myknees and uh, casey was just
like you got this, man, don'teven, don't even think about
what they're saying, Just justkeep it going.
You're doing like like he, hejust had the right thing to say

(01:27:44):
at the right time and it wasjust genuine.
You know, just care, and man.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
So when we completed, we got to the end and we were
making that trek backindividually.
What were you thinking?
How were you feeling?

Speaker 4 (01:28:04):
I was just grateful there was, there was, uh, there
wasn't a sense of like a relief,like, oh yeah, we're done, it
was just peace.
And that peace continued forever since, really, because it's

(01:28:28):
I got to me.
What I experienced was fullassurance that the Lord is with
me, and to know that I don'tthink anyone can really
comprehend what that actuallymeans, uh, and but, but it's

(01:28:49):
like it really made meunderstand that all you, you,
you, if you have the faith, he's, he's there and he, he will
fulfill what he says he will do.
He will be the protection thatyou need, the guidance that you
need and the help that you need,and it will all be provided.

(01:29:13):
And that's all I could feel.
You know, I really I felt ittruly.
And how could you not just feelpeace with that?

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
Yeah, yeah, and that in that environment, after what
we had went through, that groupof men, seeing the thing you
know, seeing your struggle,casey, I mean we were all
struggled, um, not everybodyshowed it visibly, um, but
there's no doubt everybody wasshowing uh, had dealt with with
all their own differentstruggles throughout that time.
And that's a good answer piece,because, you know, I've been

(01:29:47):
trying to think, going back onthat moment at the end, and it's
like, man, what did I feel?
Like I, it wasn't like one ofthose, you win a, you win a
championship, you know, playingon a football team or a sport,
it was.
It was that feeling of peace,it was, you know, it was a
feeling of accomplishment, likewe had done this.
But it wasn't like a, a woohoomoment.

(01:30:08):
For me it was just like a wow,like we did it.
Yeah, I didn't do it, we did it, you know, we did it together.

Speaker 4 (01:30:17):
Yeah, yeah, and the, the realization of of that, we
yeah yeah, and the realizationof that we is like it's pretty
incredible.
It is, yeah, and it's like arealization of what you need to
let go of to be that we.

Speaker 2 (01:30:39):
Yeah, for the betterment of your teammates.
Ben, what questions do you havefor ray that you can think of?

Speaker 3 (01:30:47):
well, it's kind of a one for both you guys, because
both you guys went into it forindividual reasons.
Right, it's not like you werepart of a community and then
joined it and but you bothmentioned like the, the
finishing as a we and like thatteam I I know you said that you
it kind of clicked.
Was it the night before when itstarted clicking, when you
first started talking to eachother, or when did you?
I know there was times in the,you know, in the track, I think,

(01:31:07):
where you said that that's whenyou felt like you guys were
together, but you realized itbefore that it's going to be
like a unit type thing.
When did you guys kind ofrealize that?

Speaker 2 (01:31:17):
I would say you know when we were when I would say,
you know, when we were, when weeven just first met and everyone
was in the circle right and anduh I think it might've been

(01:31:40):
John uh text that that guysreally stepped up and were like,
hey, we're going to do this asa team.
you know we're and and for me,you know it had been all about
me.
You know, the whole time, youknow, I I did a little more
training than you and I didn'tbattle the same demons in my
mind and anxiety.

(01:32:00):
You know, during thosetrainings I was excited for it
but it was all about me.
Like it was all about what hadI, what I had done, what am I
going to endure, how am I goingto get through this?
And uh, they started talkingabout team and uh, you know,
we're going to complete thistogether.
And I was thinking, well, I'mgoing to complete it.
I don't know what the rest ofyou guys are, but that kind of

(01:32:23):
set the tone for me.
And then, you know, planted theseed, like, okay, we are a team
, you know we are a group.
But it didn't really hit until,like, again, for me I've said it
a couple of times it's comingdown to that second resupply,
when I was right behind you withyour bag and just just seeing
the pain and the agony that youwere in and how every step, I

(01:32:50):
mean it, dude, you look brutal.
I mean it was brutal.
Like I thought a couple oftimes I'm like it was going
through my mind Okay, how?
Carrying his bags one thing,but how are we going to?
Are we going to have two guyscarrying Ray?
Like how's this going to work?
Like that's really going tosuck.
You know, if we got to carry aguy, I mean, that's how, that's
how bad it was.
Um, but that was that moment.
You know, jamie was like youain't quitting here, right?

(01:33:11):
Oh man, yeah, you know, you'renot quitting here and uh, that's
when it kind of hit me like allright, we've got this, it ain't
about me.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
It's about we and uh, so that's that's what it was
for me.
Yeah, what was your moviesaying, Like when you guys, I
think his was your killing mesmalls?

Speaker 2 (01:33:28):
Yeah, from.

Speaker 4 (01:33:29):
Sandlot, mine was I'll be back.
That's a good one.
That's a really good one.

Speaker 3 (01:33:37):
I like that.
Um, so the the flight was thatyour first flight by yourself?
Because I know before you saidyou know, when you got on the
flight you had your mom with you, yeah, and stuff like that.

Speaker 4 (01:33:50):
Yeah, I went once when I was 23 to Germany, but I
mean, that was.

Speaker 3 (01:33:57):
I was so and that was meds.

Speaker 4 (01:33:59):
Yeah, I was so medicated I don't even remember
the flight, but yeah, I was soand that was meds.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
Yeah, I was so medicated I don't even remember
the flight, but um, so, even theflight to Georgia, that would
have been your first flight withno meds or anything, then by
yourself by myself.

Speaker 4 (01:34:08):
Yes, yeah, yeah, that is crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:34:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
That's what I say.
You know, everybody's heard metalk about you, you, and when we
did my recap, and then when youwere talking yesterday, I'm
like, oh my gosh, like it, it isalmost, it's not.
It's a miracle that you evensigned up, showed up, and then
you were elected the leader ofour group out of all those men,

(01:34:37):
and you were the reason that weall completed.
You know, I mean, yes, it was ateam effort, but you, I mean,
I'm telling you, you were thatbeacon of light up ahead of us,
that it was like and I've saidit before if Ray ain't quitting,
none of us are quitting.
And so it was the most powerfulexperience that I've had in my

(01:34:58):
life, where I know that Jesuswas present, present and he was
present in you, which, in return, put him in all of us.
Um, like it was.
It was remarkable.
I mean truly was.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:14):
And I obviously I wasn't.
I wasn't there, but listeningto your story coming up, I think
you did like a great job justexplaining everything that you
went through, like all the fearsand everything that you had to
overcome to come to this point,and then you know when faith
came into it.
You know the Bible verse,isaiah, when it popped up right
and then, all of a sudden, okay,I got this, god, thank you for

(01:35:34):
giving me the prayer.
And then, all of a sudden, doubtstarts creeping back in.
Then what happens?
The knee pain.
And then you're in the showerlike God, if you can't just take
away my pain and my knees.
And then what?

Speaker 4 (01:35:42):
happens, it does away right.

Speaker 3 (01:35:44):
Then you go and it's almost like you know, you're
praying the whole entire timewhen you're there.
you could have gave up, youcould have not went, but you
went.
And then you're just like God,you know, if you can't take the
pain, then just use it.
Like, use me, let me bear it.
And then now that you're doneand you hear people like Dan and
stuff that recap it and they'relike we see Jesus in Ray, you
know, and you talk about beingthat peace and when you talk

(01:36:06):
about your why of you're justwanting to surrender it right,
like yeah, I just take it, justtake it.
And then you know you feelalive, like you starting to feel
that Holy Spirit really comingin.
It's like you know you saidwhat to two years or so that
you're really been in your faith.

Speaker 4 (01:36:20):
Yeah, well, no only about seven months or so, okay.

Speaker 3 (01:36:25):
So seven months or so , yeah, and it just shows it
doesn't matter how far alongyou've been in faith or anything
like that, Like it's a constantthing, Like the Holy Spirit's
constantly moving in you.
It don't matter how new you areinto faith or how old you've
been into faith.
You know, like Dan grew up inchurch and all this and somebody
with little you know I wouldn'tsay little faith, but like

(01:36:45):
early on in their faith journey.
It doesn't matter.
God's going to use every singleperson and I feel like no
matter where you are in lifelike that's that's a big
takeaway from this is no matterwhere you are in life, no matter
how unqualified you feel, nomatter the whatever's holding
holding you back, god will getyou through it.
And man like, thank you so muchfor sharing, because it is just

(01:37:06):
, I feel like it's so powerfulso I'll throw a little wrench in
here.

Speaker 2 (01:37:10):
Sean, get on the mic over there if you would mic
check one two so we've got youknow.
Everybody knows sean rubish'sstory a good high school friend,
he.
He happens to be sitting on theother side of the glass.
He wanted to meet Ray.
Sean, do you have any questionsfor Ray, any comments that you
can think of, with everythingyou've been through in your life

(01:37:31):
and you know my experience thatI had with Arap, but anything
you want to add to this?

Speaker 5 (01:37:38):
Remarkable story.
First and foremost, what Irelate to're when you're little,
that fog, just being in, thatfog of trauma, I I kind of say
it's like a dream or a nightmarethat you're in that you just
can't wake up.
Yeah and uh, that really hithome with me.
Um, and to be in it as long asyou were in it, because I

(01:38:03):
remember very vividly of youknow how, how long I was in it
and how long it took to get outof it and uh, so that's what
kind of resonated with me, justthat.
And you, you describe itperfectly because I kind of
explained it like a dream whereyou're just walking around and
it's survival mode, and Iremember that very specifically

(01:38:28):
when I was a child and when youstarted talking about it, it
definitely hit home for me.
So I mean, I loved your storyand I'm a better person for
knowing your story.

Speaker 2 (01:38:43):
Thank you.
I think a lot of people are man.
I, you know, both you men areinspirations, um, to so many
people out there and, um, it'sremarkable, I mean, what a
blessing for me to be able tohave this opportunity to know
you guys, to know your storiesand to be able to share it with

(01:39:03):
others who will be impacted in apositive way.
And to kind of close this out,ray, if there's somebody out
there who is struggling withthat fear, that anxiety, that
stress, you know, maybe not asdeep as you were into it, um,
but you know just that fear ofof trying to take that next step

(01:39:26):
or how to get out of of theconfinement of their bedroom, um
, of their home, of whatever,whatever situation there is,
what advice would you have forsomebody to to try to take that
step in the right direction?

Speaker 4 (01:39:54):
I would say you know to know that it will pass.
You know the suffering isguaranteed, but the degree that
you will experience it is notalways going to be the same.
You know if it is absolutelyhorrible one day, it won't be,

(01:40:15):
you know.
So you just can't give up.
That's the thing right.
You just can't give up.
That is that's the thing right.
You just can't give up.
And if you truly ask forguidance in it from the Lord, I
do believe that you will find it.

(01:40:35):
And it won't be easy and itwill oftentimes not be the
answer that you want.
But it's not what you want,it's his will.
You just have to surrender tothat and keep going.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
That's a great answer .
You and I talked I think it wasthis morning about different
things.
You know some ideas that wehave for Be Tempered and the
movement that we're, thecommunity that we're trying to
create, and and Sean knows thisyou know we're we're looking for
people that that would get onstage and share their story, and

(01:41:11):
you know I knew people werecoming.
I didn't know who they were andand and we we talked about this
morning.
I think you're one of thosepeople.
You're one of those storiesthat people can relate to.
You know differently than whatSean went through, but there's
so much similarities in yourstory and Sean's story and the

(01:41:34):
struggles of just trying to getthrough those difficulties that
you faced, you know, as a youngchild and in your adulthood.
I mean, dude, you're only sevenmonths into this faith journey
that you faced as a young childand in your adulthood.

Speaker 4 (01:41:47):
I mean, dude, you're only seven months into this
faith journey.
How does it feel?
Oh, it's incredible because I'mjust so excited to see what
more happens, because theblessings are just like and the
abundance it's so incredible.
And you take like for me, Ican't be anything but grateful

(01:42:12):
for the things that happen, evenif it's something that's hard
to stomach, you know, or painfulit's like.
Oh no, I can see the good beingworked in it and it's an
opportunity.
So I'm, I'm just so excited forfor everything that's to happen
.
Yeah, it's amazing it's.

Speaker 2 (01:42:29):
it's also amazing that you take a farm kid from
rural Preble County, ohio, and atattoo artist from Winnipeg,
manitoba, and stick them in theNorth Georgia mountains where
one of them walks like ForrestGump.
And here we are in Richmond,indiana, recording a podcast.

(01:42:49):
You know you've been stayingwith my family for the last
couple of days and you knowwe've been taking you on a
whirlwind tour across ourcommunity and meeting people.
And you know we got another.
You know finish out today andyou fly home tomorrow.
It's truly remarkable how Godworks and how, you know, he puts
certain people in your lives atthe time that you need it.
And uh, man, I needed you.

(01:43:12):
I'm, I'm truly grateful for ourfriendship.
Um, you know, I don't knowwhere, where this is all going
to go, um, but I know that we'llcontinue to walk that path,
walk that journey, and there'llbe trials and there'll be
challenges along the way, butthere's no doubt that what

(01:43:32):
you've went through in your life, what we went through together
in those North Georgia mountains, I can bring it on man.
We're going to get through it nomatter what, so thank you,
thank you for being here.
Oh, man, like we're going toget through it no matter what,
um, so thank you, thank you forbeing here.

Speaker 4 (01:43:44):
Oh yeah, thank you very much.
It's been, it's been the bestyeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43:49):
All right, everybody, I don't know how you can't
share the story.
Uh, it's, it's truly remarkable.
Somebody out there needs tohear it.
Um, we, we continue to saythank you for your ears, for
your support, you know, continueto like and comment and do all
those things so we can continueto grow the show and to share
Ray's story and go out and betempered.

Speaker 1 (01:44:09):
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Speaker 2 (01:44:38):
Hey, do you want to catch every episode live as it's
being recorded?
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, behind the scenes, photos anda live recording as it takes
place.
Go to patreoncom slashbetempered.

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BeTempered Episode 65 – The Fight, The Mountain, and the Man Who Wouldn’t Quit

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}BeTempered Episode 65 – The Fight, The Mountain, and the Man Who Wouldn’t Quit