BeTempered Episode 69 - Doug Macias: Finding Faith, Community, and Recovery - BeTempered

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
God, I just thank you for bringing Doug here today
and his testimony and I just askthat you let it hit the ears of
everybody that everybody that'sgoing to affect.
Lord and God, I know that everytime we share a testimony, that
you're the one that gives us thetestimony, you're the one that
gets through the fire.
Satan puts stuff in our livesthat sometimes we get tempted

(00:21):
and sometimes we go with thetemptation.
But wherever we come back toyou at, you meet us right there
and I'm just so thankful that wedon't have to do anything to
receive your grace.
It's just there and I just askthat everybody's that, or
everybody that hears his storyand hears his testimony,
understands that, that the graceis there, that the only thing
we have to do is just understandit and accept it and also have

(00:44):
grace for ourselves, assometimes we're hard on
ourselves, we don't think wedeserve grace, but grace is all
we have lord and it's what givesus the peace to be able to
follow you as closely as we can.
And I just ask that you um justbe with doug as he shares his
testimony and give him power andand and give Dan the the right
things to ask, and I just askthat you just bless this and

(01:08):
just let us feel your presencehere, lord, and it's in your
name we pray.
Amen, amen, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hi, my name is Ali Schmidt.
This is my dad, Dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
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(01:40):
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Speaker 4 (01:47):
Hey, do you want to catch every episode live as it's
being recorded?
Log on to patreoncom slash betempered for exclusive footage,
behind the scenes, photos and alive recording as it takes place
.
Go to patreoncom slash betempered.
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, where we explore the
art of finding balance in achaotic world.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
We're your hosts, Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
This is Be.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Tempered.

Speaker 4 (02:21):
What's up everybody.
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, episode number 69.
69.
Boy, we got some beautifulweather.
Yeah, it's perfect outside.
Man, this is like this is mytime of year Now.
I know we got some heat left tocome, I'm sure.
But you get into that fallweather and those cool mornings
and long sleeves and sweatshirtsand man, I love it, I love it,

(02:44):
I love it, I love it.
Sleeves and sweatshirts and man, I love it, I love it, I love
it, I love it.
But today we have a specialguest with a powerful story, one
that I think probably many ofour listeners out there can
relate to, whether personally,or whether with a family member
or friend or someone who's who'sdealt with some of the similar
situations in life that ourguest has.
So I would like to welcome DougMacias to the Be Tempered

(03:08):
podcast.

Speaker 5 (03:08):
Welcome, doug, thank you.
Thanks for having me, yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
Why so serious?

Speaker 5 (03:14):
A lot of people say that and then they want me to
grow up.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
No, you're good man.
You know, we had a conversationa week or so ago and I've been
trying to make the connectionfor a while through mutual
friends and, and we did, and Ijust told you a little bit ago
that you know, that conversationdeeply impacted me because I
could, I could, see the changein you and I didn't even know

(03:42):
you prior and um, and I can seeit now.
I can, I can see the emotionand the passion in your face and
and um, I'm excited foreveryone to hear your story
because, like we talk about,there's one person out there
that needs to hear it and it'sgoing to help and uh, and that's
what it's all about.
So, how we like to start everyepisode is going back to

(04:03):
childhood, so, so talk aboutwhat life was like for you
growing up and where you grew up.

Speaker 5 (04:07):
Okay, thank you.
I mean, before I go there, Iwant to say a few thank yous.
Number one to Brian Ballinger.
He's the one that shared myname with you.
Thank you guys for theinvitation.
Thank you, dan, for waiting.
When you originally reached outin June, I knew why you reached

(04:30):
out I wasn't ready, for whateverreason.
Kind of some of the things thatwe talked about is, I've been
sober.
My sobriety date is December,the 20th, 2016.
So I'm eight and a half yearsin and I've given my shared my
story, my testimony, whateveryou want to call it uh, multiple
times, the majority of thetimes in 12 step rooms and

(04:54):
churches, things, platforms likethat.
I don't think I've ever done iton a live podcast where it's
strictly recovered.
Well, I mean, my recovery isgoing to be a big piece of it,
but put it out there foreverybody and it's going to
potentially live forever.
So I would say nerves, fear,shame, embarrassment, all that

(05:17):
stuff, but some things haveactually happened within since
then.
That finally got to a pointwhere I was ready.
So thank you for waiting.
Thanks for Kevin for being here.
So back to the original question.
So, born and raised in AltonIllinois, southern Illinois,

(05:40):
near St Louis Went to Catholicschool for about five years,
switched over to middle school.
Parents got divorced when I was16.
When that happened and that'sanother I guess I want to say
statement I want to make is I'mprobably going to share some

(06:04):
things today.
My intent here is to share mystory as honest and vulnerable
and raw as I can, and I may saysome things that may hurt some
people in some way, shape orform.
That's not my intent.
I am not pointing the finger orblaming anybody for anything

(06:26):
that's happened in my life.
What recovery has taught me isI got to look at what was my
role in it, what was my part init, and quit pointing the finger
at everybody else and point thefinger at Doug.
So if I do hurt anybody, Iapologize.
I owe a lot of people, a lot ofapologies over the years and
I'm simply doing my best to makemy amends, to make it right, to

(06:48):
be better.
So I mean when I talk about myparents' divorce, I mean when I
look back.
That was a moment where thingsinside of me started to go
different directions, when, whenparts of me got broken and I'm

(07:12):
not pointing the finger at mymom or my dad they did the best
that they could.
Everybody has challenges,everybody has problems,
everybody makes mistakes, butI'm not pointing the finger at
my mom or my dad, but when thathappened, um cause, growing up I
was relatively pretty goodstudent.
I got A's pretty easily withoutputting a lot of effort into it

(07:33):
.
I was a great procrastinatorwhen it came to the books flip
to the very back Um and I and Iwould do pretty good Um.
When I played sports andanything extra extracurricular,
I did pretty good at that too,without putting in very much
work or effort.
Um.
But when the divorce happened,um, that's when I pretty much

(07:55):
gave up all the sports.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
Um why do you, why do you think that?

Speaker 5 (08:01):
I think that's when I started chasing other things.
Maybe one of the things was Iwanted a car.
Mom and dad said get a job.
I got a job and I startedgetting addicted to money.
I'm one of those.
I get addicted to everythingfrom coffees at Roscoe's to

(08:27):
popsicles to Oreos.
One is not enough of anythingfor me.
So I got addicted to money.
But that's when I startedmessing around with drinking and
smoking weed.
But it was.
I also wanted to be the popularkid.
I was always a real short kidso I always wanted to be.

(08:50):
I thought it would be.
Things could make me popular orget attention.
So I mean I had to have theJordans and the Bo Jacksons and
the Reebok pumps.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
I had those.
You know, those are sweet yeah.

Speaker 5 (09:01):
Yeah, and I mean I had to have the at that time,
the eighty hundred dollar poloshirts.
So I, I think I'd I justidentified success or popularity
.
I wanted to.
I wanted to be the cool,popular kid with the guys and
the girls.
So I remember the first time Ihad a beer, I hated it.

(09:22):
I remember I think I even snuckinto the bathroom and poured
out.
But I wanted to be cool becauseI thought that's what the cool
kid, that's what the jocks did,that's what the popular, that's
what the people that had moneydid.
So I mean that's when I startedjust chasing all the things, um
, and that that partying, uh,behavior, lifestyle just

(09:46):
continued into my teens.
I think I, I think I was beforeI was 21.
I think I wrecked my, wrappedmy car around a telephone pole
and I remember and I we were ina small town and I feel pretty
comfortable and confident sayingI got, I got a, a get out of
jail free card, and I think itwas because there wasn't all the

(10:09):
technology as there was backthen and it was also because of
who our family was, our familyvery large, very reputable
family back in Alton.
So I think I got my first getout of jail free card.
So I didn't pay anyconsequences and I remember when
the cop was there, he wastrying to help me out.

(10:31):
Did you have your seatbelt on?
No, was it because of the rain?
Oh no, as soon as I pulled outof the neighborhood I hammered
it because I had the Mustangright.
So I mean, it was just theongoing cycle.
In my teens and then into my20s, it was the same thing.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
What'd you do so?
You finished high school.
Did you go to college?
You go into workforce?
What was your career path fromhigh school?

Speaker 5 (11:02):
I tried messing around with some college.
I always wanted to, but I justnever made it a priority.
I was always chasing the money.
I mean I think I was managing alocal pizza shop back home and
I think when I was in my teens Ithink I was making close to
$30,000 a year and I had thecompany paid pager right and I

(11:23):
think I even had a profitsharing because I had a great
relationship with the owner.
So I mean back then in the 90s,that's a lot of money for a kid
.
Right out of high school, rightI had the keys to the kingdom
and I moved around a lot.
I moved around a lot.

(11:45):
I moved around a lot.
I was like you know what, I'llmove.
My problems won't follow me.
It was the people, places andthings that I was around that
were the problem that wasusually associated with drinking
and drugging.
So it was pretty much the samepattern going through my 20s and
I'm sure we'll come back tosome of that later on down the

(12:06):
road.
30s same thing.
Early 30s I got a DUI in thecompany car.
Once again didn't suffer a lotof consequences.
Number one, because I lied.
I was a really good liar whenmy license got suspended.

(12:31):
I didn't tell my I had acompany car.
I didn't tell my I was on theroad all the time for my job.
I wasn't honest with myemployer and for me it was I'm
going to pay.
I always thought money was thesolution to all my problems.
I was like I'm going to get thebest lawyer to fight this to

(12:53):
minimize the damage as much aspossible, and that's what we did
.
And I remember I don't know whyI almost have a smile on my
face, but it just because of howgood of a manipulator I was and
how selfish I was the night Igot my DUI.
It was the night of the timechange.
So one of the one of our casestatements was we're going to

(13:14):
fight this based on the timebeing wrong, if you catch my
drift.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
Instead of owning it.

Speaker 5 (13:23):
Instead of just owning it.
Yeah, you know what we're goingto.
We're going to try to fightthis.
And that was about the timethat I was getting ready to move
out here to Indiana and Iremember when I finally got in
front of the judge, the judgewas like you know what?
This is your first offense,here's your community service,
da-da-da-da, and we're going tolet Indiana deal with you.
Problem anymore.

(13:47):
Another get out of jail freecard.
And I remember them also sayingthat uh, in St Louis and this
is no shot at Anheuser-Busch,but they're like Anheuser-Busch
donate so money, so much moneyto things like this that your
first DUI is you get, you get apretty good pass.
You come up, you show up foryour class, you do your
community service, so not a lotof consequences.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
You had to feel invincible, almost in a way that
you could do anything.

Speaker 5 (14:08):
I always did, um, because one of my solutions for
the longest time was when thingsget bad, I'll bury my head in
my work, I'll make more moneyand the money will fix my
problems.
So that's, I kept just themonth.
I mean the money and the jobelevations just kept on coming

(14:28):
my way.
So I moved out here to Indianaand, ironically so, my birth
date is July the 27th.
27 was always my favoritenumber.
My sobriety date's the 28th andI'll explain later why the 28th
versus the 27th.
Um, but it's ironic, todaybeing August the 27th, this is

(14:50):
my 15 year anniversary of, and Iactually moved out to Indiana.
So, moved out to Indiana,started this new job, um, and I
would take periods off ofdrinking and this and that,
trying to control and manage itmyself.
Um, but it was the same cyclethroughout my thirties, same
cycle throughout my 30s.
Same cycle, just different city, different story.

(15:12):
But I think this is where we'llreally start getting into my
story February 4th 2016.
Something happened that daythat made me finally really want
to get sober.
So that was in February, marchI'm trying, I'm trying, but then

(15:54):
Doug would go out and drink andthen he would say and do things
and then blame it on thedrinking.
Also, earlier that year one ofmy best friends growing up, he
died suddenly and it really atemy lunch because I hadn't hardly
seen him in years, so it wasreally eating my lunch that I

(16:17):
lost out on some of the lastyears of this guy's life and I
hadn't had hardly anything to dowith him for stupid selfish
reasons.
So rest in peace.
Wayman Lockhart A lot of youknow that name.
We lost him way too soon, butthen also that year.
So June was a big turning pointin that year.

(16:44):
So finally in June I'm like Igot to do something about this
drinking, like I'm a relativelysmart guy.
I've got a pretty good job andyou work for a ginormous
insurance company.
You've probably got some typeof assistance for this.
So I pull out my wallet, getout my insurance card, call the
800 number.
They refer me to an EAP.
Eap referred me to a therapistin the Noblesville area.

(17:08):
So I went to see.
Went to see her, puts paperworkin front of me, the intake
forms and it's score yourselfzero to eight when it comes to
drinking or drugging.
I scored high.
I know I score high, but that'snot my problem.
The drinking and the drugs.
Primarily the drinking isn't myproblem, it's the things that I

(17:33):
say and do when I'm drinking.
One of the main things I learnedfrom her and I'm so grateful
for her was her usage of words,and what I mean by that is she
didn't say Doug, you're analcoholic, doug, you need to do
this.
Doug, you need to do that.
She would say, maybe you shouldtry this.
She would lay out somesuggestions for me.

(17:57):
I would try some things.
Some things would work, somethings wouldn't.
And I wouldn't try some thingsbecause I wasn't that bad yet,
right, and so I turned 40 thatJuly.
So there's another reason why,cause I didn't understand why it
was escalating to the degreethat it was that year.
So I turned 40.

(18:19):
So I'm like, oh, this midlifecrisis thing is, it's the real
deal.
So I'm like, oh, this midlifecrisis thing is, it's the real
deal.
And then in August my temperreally started to come out in
bad ways, bad dangerous ways.

(18:41):
Other things that happened thatyear.
My mom had some health stuffgoing on.
My dad was diagnosed with hisfirst bout of prostate cancer,
um, and all along, I'm doing thetherapy and there would be a
suggestion out there like maybea 12 step meeting.
Yeah, um.
And then also that year, um, Iwas up in Fort Wayne for work

(19:05):
and I think I saw on Facebook orsomehow I got word that one of
my really good friends back homethat his little brother got
killed in the line of duty.
He was a police officer and Iremember I'm sitting in the
parking lot in Applebee's inFort Wayne and I didn't know
what to do.
I was like, do I just cancelthis meeting?

(19:26):
Do I head straight home rightnow to be with friends?
What do I do?
Went in, had the lunch with theclient, came out, finished my
day and then kind of got into mynormal routine.
I went and checked in at thehotel.
Actually, first I went and hada couple of drinks with another
client and then um went andchecked into the hotel and I

(19:49):
always got a hotel that waspretty close to a place where I
could get a bite to eat, sit atthe bar, uh, because that's
where you get the fastestservice, that's where you get
the best service.
There's also a TV there.
It's like a multitask right.
Take the laptop in and I'msitting at the bar.
And I couldn't hold tears back.
So people started asking hey,what's going on.

(20:12):
So people do what people do.
They started buying shots andthen the next thing I knew I
woke up in a completelydifferent hotel room than I
checked into different hotelroom that I checked into Phone
was dead.
So, uh, got juice in my phone,got into a taxi, I think and uh,

(20:38):
my phone lights up and I'mgetting messages from all kinds
of people starting to, um, saythings like we were getting
ready to start checking jailsand hospitals, say things like
we were getting ready to startchecking jails and hospitals.
So in my mind, okay, this isfinally affecting my work.
But when the fog starts to lift, when people are making
comments like that, they'realready seeing they've got a
clue what's going on.
Because that's also how Ibranded myself I was fun Doug, I

(21:02):
was party Doug, I'm the bigtime executive that's taking you
to the Colts games and buyingall the drinks and doing the big
fancy dinners, and I wassuccessful at doing it too.
So I remember I'm coming downHighway 69 and I text somebody.
I said I think I finally hitrock bottom.
So I think this was, I don'tknow, september, ish.
So the same things are stillgoing on, october, november, and

(21:31):
the therapist is saying thingslike maybe, maybe, a 12 step
meeting.
So I think at some point in thattimeframe I did go to one.
I got there late cause, lookingback now, if you've never been
to a 12 step meeting, findingthem can be a challenge.
Um walked in and I saw here'sme judging some rougher looking

(22:00):
people tattoos and anklebracelets and that type of stuff
.
So in my mind I'm like I'm notthat bad.
But I did hear some things thatkind of resonated.
So when I went back to mytherapist and she asked about it
, I said yeah, I went.
I was late, wasn't me, I wasn'tthat bad.
And she kind of just shakes herhead and she's like I'll kind

(22:21):
of give you the benefit of thedoubt on this one a little bit.
The place that you went it'sreally close to the courthouse,
so there's probably some peoplethere that they're there to get
their sheet signed.
They're getting the nudge fromthe judge and there again her
usage of words Maybe try onesomewhere else.
Okay, but I was getting ready togo home for Christmas and when

(22:41):
I go home for Christmas it's theend of the year, I'm
celebrating a successful workyear.
I'm going to be around, all myfamily, all my boys, all my
people.
So my partying is at anotherlevel because then, also here,
the big shot, doug, is cominghome, right.
So my plan was to go home andnot screw the holidays up like I

(23:04):
did the year before.
The year before the year before, I mean, I fell down my
brother's steps, I lost my brandnew company phone, things like
that.
So my therapist was like sowhat's your plan?
And I was like I got this.
And she kind of gives me a look.
She's like okay, what do yougot this time, doug?
And I was like I got this.
She's like what's this?

(23:24):
I'm like, oh, duels.
And she's like okay, so I headhome.
I think I got home on Friday and, yeah, my cousin was having a
big birthday party, soeverybody's there and I'm just
killing the old duels.
And then it was about nine or10 o'clock and my dad said all

(23:49):
right, son, we're heading home,because next day was Christmas
Eve.
Christmas Eve was a big deal atdad's house and I was like, oh,
dad, come on your son's home,it's your nephew's birthday,
everybody's here.
I said stay and have one more,and I'll have one with you.
So I had one, and that wasthree or four days off the races

(24:09):
.
Um, I should probably back up alittle bit.
Um the way things that weregetting the bottom half of that
year.
Um, I was starting to.
I was a really good drunkdriver and I'm really proud of
that.
Shame on me.
But things were getting so badthe end of that year I was

(24:36):
getting scared of myself and Iwas starting to have the
thoughts that if I go to jailagain, if I get another DUI, if
I lose my job, I'll either be injail or if I have to move back
home with mommy or daddy in thebasement, that's okay too.

(24:56):
That's the depth and thedarkness that my drinking was
taking me.
So back to back to Christmastime.
I'm off to the races for threeor four days.
On day four I come out of itand I got a gash on my head

(25:19):
again and I'm sitting on thecurb at the hotel and I'm crying
and I'm texting somebody sayingI think I'm 40 years old and my
life is out of control and Idon't know what to do.
So once again I did it.
Again I screwed up my holidays.

(25:39):
So I've got the rest of theyear off, but instead of staying
with friends and family theydon't want some of them don't
want anything to do with me,right, and it's the same of the
year off but instead of stayingwith friends and family, they I
mean, they don't want.
Some of them don't wantanything to do with me, right?

Speaker 4 (25:48):
And it's the same old song and dance, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (25:50):
So and and and apologies and my sorries were
worthless at that point to somepeople, right?
So, um, packed up, headed homelaying in bed licking my wounds
and I'm like, what do I do now?
My, it's the holidays.
Um, the 800 number, they're onvacation.

(26:11):
Uh, my therapist she's on.
She's on vacation.
Maybe I'll try this 12 stepthing.
Um, so the reason I choseDecember the 28th is my sobriety
date is because when I went outon the 26th, I don't know when
I got home.
So 27 has always been my number, right.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
You were hungover.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
I probably I could have possibly been drinking or
doing drugs on the 27th, I don'tknow, shameful right, but it's
the truth.
So that's why I landed on.
The 28th is my sobriety date.
But then on December, the 30th,yeah, six o'clock at night, I
closed out the books.
My best year ever made moremoney than I ever did in my life

(26:59):
.
I was so good.
They were sending me and aguest on an all expense paid
trip to Hawaii.
But at seven o'clock that nightI walked into my first 12 step
meeting.
So on one side of it, highs,but at the same time lowest of
the lows, my bottom and I.

(27:23):
At your first meeting you hear alot of things.
You hear a lot of things.
You hear a lot of experience.
You hear a lot of suggestionsand I remember the one thing
that really stuck out is yourmost important meeting is your
next meeting.
I know what that means and Iget that now and then.
The other thing that I rememberhearing is I don't know why we

(27:46):
give them our numbers.
We should be getting theirsbecause we know that they're not
going to use it.
You go to a 12-step meeting.
They hand around a piece ofpaper or something and all the
guys write down their numbersfor each other.
I get it now.
I mean, it's hard to pick up thephone and call somebody you'd
probably don't know.
And what I've learned throughthis journey is, I think one of

(28:08):
the hardest things for us to dois is to admit to ourselves we
got a problem.
And then I think one of thenext hardest things to do is to
reach out to somebody else andsay, hey, I need help Cause
we're men, right.
Yeah, we're in.
Look, I mean I'm a big strongman, right, that's a, that's a,
that's one of my jokes, rightthere.

(28:28):
But I mean we're not supposedto be honest, we're not supposed
to be vulnerable, we're notsupposed to cry.
Handle your business, man up,right.
All those, all those thingsthat I think a lot of us grew up
with.
I think times are changing.
Yeah, this podcast is anexample of that.
So I went to that meeting thenext day because that stuck in

(28:52):
my head your most importantmeeting is your next meeting.
So the next day, new Year's Eve, I'm in Carmel, indiana,
because that's where I wasliving at the time.
It's cold, it's dark, but Ifound a meeting in the back of a
church at like 8 or 9 o'clockat night probably 8 o'clock and
I get back there, it's darkthere again.
I don't know where I'm at, Idon't know what I'm looking for,

(29:16):
I don't like cold weather.
So I'm starting to walk intothis building and I saw somebody
was walking out and they said,I guess there's not a meeting.
I'm like, okay.
So I turned around and startedwalking back to my car and once
again, thank goodness, somebodyelse was walking in.
They said, hey, you're lookingfor a meeting.
I said, yeah.
She said come on in, we'regoing to have one.
And I think at that meetingthere was only three or four of

(29:38):
us and, um, there was a marriedcouple there and that was
something that gave me hope.
I was like, oh, hmm, there'sactually a married couple doing
this, because I thought onlylosers were doing this thing.
Right, all the judgment that wemake assumptions, and I'm so

(30:03):
grateful for them because theysimply do what we do.
After the meeting, he sat down,they took out a meeting
directory and they said okay,tomorrow here's a good meeting.
We suggest you go to Monday.
Tuesday went through the wholeweek, um.
So then I woke up, new year'sday, I didn't want to work out,
I didn't want to go to churchand I didn't want to go to a

(30:25):
meeting.
Thank goodness there was somelight coming on in there that
said probably not the best wayto start off your year.
So I got up, went to church andthere wasn't a whole lot of
church in me at the time.
The only thing that the onlything that was in me church
related is because I was.
I was hungry and searching anddesperate for help and answers,
no matter what rock it was under.

(30:45):
So went to church, went to workout and the meeting they
suggested wasn't until thatnight.
So my goal that day was when Iwalk in these rooms I hear all
these folks saying my name issuch and such and I'm a such and
such.
I didn't say that yet.
So got to that meeting.
That night it came around to meand I said my name is Doug and

(31:07):
I'm an alcoholic.
And then just waterworks.
And uh, I remember this bigHawaiian dude came over after
the meeting and put his hand onmy shoulder.
He's like all right, brother.
He was like you finally gotthat elephant off your chest.
Now you're going to have tolearn how to eat the elephant

(31:30):
one bite at a time.
Boy.
Do I get what that means now?
Um, so, I think it was thatnight I went home and, uh, I had
been avoiding my mom.

Speaker 4 (31:45):
Why.

Speaker 5 (31:47):
She could see what was going on and all I did was
deny it and fight it.
I didn't want to be honest withpeople.
I didn't want to talk to people.
The worse things got, the moreI isolated myself.
And it was a new year and Ididn't want to.
I didn't want to hide from mymom anymore.

(32:10):
I'm not going to cry today,even though I had Kleenex in my
back pocket.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
You're good man.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Um.
So I shared with her hey, I'mdoing this, I've started this,
uh, this 12 step thing.
And I remember her saying andit was one of the hardest things
to hear Hear my mom say I waslosing my son and I didn't know

(32:37):
what to do.
And she's in tears saying itHow'd that hit you About as hard
as anything can hit you?
Cause I think, at the end ofthe day, that's what a lot of us
want to do, is we want to makeour parents proud, right?
Yeah, um.
So the next day is a Monday.

(32:58):
We're still off of work.
So I wake up and I'm feelinggood about myself.
Right, I've been to a meeting.
How many days in a row?
I said I'm an alcoholic.
I talked to my mom.
So that day there, before I goback to work, it's all about
Doug.
That day I'm going out and I'mgetting a haircut, I'm getting a
shave, I'm getting a massage,I'm getting ready because this
is Doug.
Two point this is a new Dougcoming out the box, right?

(33:29):
So evening time rolls around andI did what I always did.
I went to the Mexican placebecause I'm Mexican, and sat at
the bar, got an O'Doul's and awater.
So the next day, tuesday, backto work and I went to a.
I went to a lunch 12th.
There was a 12 step meetingover lunch.
So it gets around to me and I'mlike it's day five.
I've been to five meetings in arow.
I said I'm an alcoholic.
I thought I told my mom andlast night I even did what I

(33:52):
always, what I always did.
I went to the bar that I got anOduels and one of the guys is
not supposed to do this, but hesaid stay the F away from the
bars and stay the F away fromthe Oduels and excuse my French
if I use it at any point in time, but that version of Doug,
those are the words that heunderstood, words like faith and

(34:14):
things like that.
There was none of that inside.
That was the language andvocabulary that I spoke and knew
, right.
So I kind of walk out of therefrustrated, frustrated, and I'm
like what the F?
I'm like you hear all thisstuff, read these books and and
and work these steps and go tomeetings and get a sponsor, and

(34:36):
I'm like this is like afull-time job.
How am I going to do this?
I already got one.
So, thankfully, when I got homeI saw that original little
booklet with all the names andnumbers on there that I'd gotten
on that first night that Ihadn't picked up and used yet,
cause I don't need your help.
I'm Doug, I can do this on myown Right, cause I always did.
I always did things a short,fast, easy way and I was good at

(35:00):
it.
Right, I've been rewarded forthat type of behavior on one
side of the fence for my entire,for my entire life.
Right, I've been rewarded forthat type of behavior on one
side of the fence for my entirefor my entire life, right?
So I picked up the phone and Isaid hey say.
I said hey, thank you forsaying what you said, because I
don't know what, I don't knowand this sounds like a full-time

(35:20):
job.
And he and he did what we do.
He said why don't you meet mefor dinner tomorrow at such and
such?
And then, if you want and thereagain the usage of words he
said and then, if you want, I'mgoing to go to a men's meeting.
If you want to join me?
He didn't say and then you'regoing to go or we're going to go
.
It was simply laying theopportunity out there, simply

(35:50):
laying the opportunity out there.
So then a big fast forward ofthe tape.
I'm sitting here today witheight and a half years sobriety,
but I'll throw some asterisksin there.
So your first year of sobriety.
They say there's somesuggestions, not rules.

(36:11):
There's suggestions, no bigdecisions.
Right, because the chances areyou've probably been drinking or
drugging or whatever you'redoing for for a little bit of
time.
Me, I started when I was 16, soI got 20 plus years of practice
and experience of drinking anddrugging and living and behaving
that way, right?
So your first year, maybe youfocus on getting sober and

(36:33):
staying sober.
So no big decisions when itcomes to relationships, jobs,
things like that.
There again, here's Doug right,this is Doug Doug.
I do things the fast, easy, theright way the first time.
So I got into a relationshipwith a woman that had two kids.
We got engaged, we moved intogether.

(36:55):
I decided to make a big jobmove.
I encouraged my mom to sell herhouse and move out here to
Indiana.
So lots of big changes, right.
So I get to the end of year oneand my sponsor says

(37:18):
congratulations, now don't F itup.
And I'm like what?
I'm like, why that?
Where's the party at?
Why isn't it like written inthe sky here?
Doug Macias has done all thesebig things right.
Um, about month 14, I remember Igot sick.

(37:40):
I didn't go to a meeting oneday.
A meeting led to one day led toa week.
A week led to almost a month.
All my stuff started comingback.
And I mean there's so manysayings, but they always say you
got to put your sobriety first.
Anything you put in front ofyour sobriety, you're at risk
losing and losing again.
So, fiance, kids looking to buya house, new job, my mom, all

(38:08):
this pile full of stuff in yearone, in front of my sobriety and
and I'm sick, right um, whatwas your sickness?
I think I had.
I probably had a cold orsomething, the flu.
Whatever you, whatever you hada man cold.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, yeah, you know how we do with that, it's severe
.

Speaker 5 (38:28):
So me and the fiance, some words were exchanged and
this and that, and I resorted tomy old behaviors.
What I call it now is my F itswitch F.
This F.
You pack a bag, I'm out.
Send mom an email.
Mom, I'm heading out of townfor work.
Need you to find me a new placeas close as you can to my new

(38:50):
office?
Right, so I get back.
She hands me the keys.
I had the movers come thatweekend to move all the big
stuff.
So here I am in this brand new,nice, dark apartment half an
hour or so away from where I gotsober at and the people that
helped me get and stay sober.
So I remember on.
I think it was whatever nightit was, it's irrelevant, but I'm

(39:13):
in this new dark apartment andI'm counting the places I can
walk and have a drink.
I'm having the thoughts I cango have one.
Nobody can know I can go haveone and I'm not going to hurt
anybody, but thank goodness, andthat's where I'm going to give
it to God.
I think God's the only thingthat helped keep me sober
overnight.

(39:34):
I should probably back up andinsert some of my faith journey
in there too at some point.
But thank goodness, the nextday I woke up and my brain was
trained enough by then.
Your most important meeting isyour next meeting.
So in Indy on Sunday morningsthey had the Sunday morning

(39:54):
breakfast meeting and I laughbecause I'm a foodie.
So I was like, ooh, breakfastmeeting, there's going to be
food there.
It sounds like that's themeeting I'm going to.
There ain't no breakfast atthat meeting.
That's one of the longeststanding meetings in Indy and
there's still no breakfast there.
I'm still a little resentfulabout it if you can't tell, but

(40:15):
it got me there, thank goodness.
Actually, no, I got my storymixed up.
So the dark night was on Friday.
Saturday I woke up and I wentto a men's meeting in Indy
Pre-COVID.
It was a 7.30 in the morningmeeting on a Saturday and
there's usually over 100 menthere one of the most powerful

(40:38):
meetings I've ever been to and Isat in the back with my hat on
because I didn't want any of youguys to see me and ask me how I
was doing, because I was doingexactly how you said I would be
doing if I didn't listen to you,based off of your experience.
Right, yeah?
So after the meeting, guys didwhat they did.
They came over, shook my handhow are you doing?
But during the meeting, when itcame around to me to share um,

(41:00):
that's what I said out loud.
I said I'm sitting back herecause I don't want none of you
guys asking me how I'm doing,because I'm doing exactly how I
was.
I'm doing shitty again.
I'm doing exactly how you saidI'd be doing if I didn't listen
to you and everything's fallingapart again.
So after the meeting they camearound, they shook my hand, they
hugged me, they gave me theirphone number.
They got my number.
We Next morning I go to theSunday morning breakfast meeting

(41:21):
.
And this is funny how therecovery network works.
So after I got out of thatmeeting I got a text message
from my first sponsor.
He said hey, heard you're notdoing that.
Great, you know that meetingyou went to they're looking for

(41:42):
somebody to give their lead,their testimony, the next week.
And I was like I don't want tohear this right now.
I don't want to get up in frontof a room of people and tell
them how I'm doing.
But I also learned in therecovery network that when
you're asked to do something,you simply say yes, you shut up
and you say yes.
So I did so.

(42:03):
I got up in front of a roomfull of people but it felt so
good to get it out.
And then my same sponsor down inFlorida again is texting me
again.
He's like hey, you know thatmeeting, they're looking for a
secretary, they're looking for aservice position.
In my head I'm like man, no, no, I don't want to do this.
I've got my life now.

(42:24):
I go to church every Sundaymorning, I've got my routine.
But I shut up and I listenedand that's when I really started
really doing service work.
Because we've got a in therecovery world we have tokens

(42:44):
and I've got my eight-year tokenwith me and there's a triangle
and it says Unity, recovery,unity and Service.
That's kind of one of thedrills that we'll do is we'll
kind of grade ourself what's theweakest area of your?
You're in the center of thistoken, right?
The service work I was doingbefore I was simply doing it
just because I was checkingbefore.

(43:05):
I was simply doing it justbecause I was checking the boxes
.
I was trying to do the bareminimum.
Um, so I did the serviceposition and then another moment
that happened that that timeperiod is my.
My original therapist reachedout to me Cause, if you know me,
I live.

(43:26):
I live my life out loud onsocial media and I think that
with a lot of people you cankind of tell what's going on in
their life by, maybe, some ofthe stuff they're posting and
they're sharing.
So my therapist reached out tome.
She sent me a, she sent me a DM, she slid into my DMS and that
what the kids say these days.
But she said, hey, I don't knowwhat's going on, but I think

(43:49):
maybe we should get together.
Okay, we sat down and she's likeI'm going to say a couple of
things.
I know you're probably notgoing to like to hear them, but
I think you might need to hearthem.
She's like I think you'redepressed and in my mind I'm
like F you, I'm a man, I'm notdepressed.
And then another conversationin my head F you, because my mom

(44:13):
always said that Because youcould be when Doug was drinking,
he could be fun Doug, or he'dbe booze bag Doug crying in his
beer sitting there crying at thebar.
He never knew which version ofDoug you were going to get, um.
But that that voice also, andthat voice inside my head, said

(44:33):
you know what, maybe she's right.
Maybe shut up and listen, doug,because you've been listening
to yourself for 40 years and itain't been working.
How's that been working out foryou, right?
And she said God bless her, youknow who you are, cause you're
probably going to listen to this, cause I still stay in touch
with her.
Um, she said I'm not just goingto write your prescription.

(44:57):
She was like maybe medicationis a tool or a solution, maybe
it's not.
She's like do like you do inyour recovery program, reach out
to at least 10 people.
I didn't want to reach out to10 people, just tell me what to
do, but I did it.
I shut up and I listened andshe said and make one of them
your doctor, make some of thempeople that are in recovery,

(45:18):
make some people reach out tosome that aren't in recovery.
Okay, and this is where I'm sograteful for my doctor.
So I go see my doctor.
I was very I was always veryopen about my drinking and
drugging and he said um, so youbelieve you have the disease of
alcoholism, right?
Yes?
And you treat it accordinglydaily, right yes?
He said maybe, just maybe, youhad this other disease of

(45:43):
depression and anxiety, and theylove to hang around each other
and they love to fuel each otherand press each other's buttons.
He said maybe.
He didn't say you're depressed,he wasn't, you know.
He said maybe.
There again the usage of words.
He said maybe we need to treatthat accordingly, daily and

(46:07):
separately from the alcoholism.
Like you do your.
Like you do your alcoholism.
I'm like okay, I can buy this.
He's like maybe we're going tosuggest a prescription, maybe
it's short term.
Maybe it's short term, maybeit's longterm, maybe it's
permanent.
Maybe you work on this, likeyou are your alcoholism, and
work on what's ever going oninside your heart and head.

(46:27):
Okay, so we, we, we did go downthe medication route and we had
to adjust it, but it helped,because what they always say is
2016 was my bottom right?
There's always another bottom.
I'm eight years in.
There's always anotherpotential bottom out there and

(46:49):
it could get worse.
I know where those bottomscould lead, but I think, but I
did the work, I did the work.

Speaker 4 (46:58):
I did the work was that the first time you felt
like you truly listened tosomebody?

Speaker 5 (47:07):
once I got into recovery, yeah, and then after I
hit that kind of next bottomabout 14 plus months in yeah, I
think that's when I mean after Ihit that kind of next bottom
about 14 plus months in yeah, Ithink that's when I finally
started listening.
I remember things that I heardand the tools I got in recovery.
Maybe it's time we take thecotton out of our ears and put

(47:28):
it in our mouth.
That's why God gave us two earsand one mouth, so that way we
can listen twice as much.
All the corny sayings that arejust gold, and I'm grateful for
the people I got sober with.
A lot of people say that I worka militant, aggressive program,

(47:49):
whatever you want to call it.
You know what I drankaggressively.
You know my disease that'sstill inside of me.
It's aggressive, it's militant.
At the end of the day, it's notgoing to rest until I'm dead,
right, yeah, there's the sayingthat it's it's out in the car
and then the car is running orit's out in the parking lot
doing pushups.
So I have to work.

(48:10):
I believe I have to work aprogram as as aggressive as I
did when I was out there doingthe things that I was doing.
Um, I know I'm kind of bouncingall over the place now, but you
want me to go down my faithjourney at all, how that played
into all that.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Yeah, absolutely, because what I, what I see when
I hear you, when I hear you talkabout the addictions in your
life and your work and all thesethings, I see this wall around
you.
I see these walls around yourshoulders, around your ears,
around your head.

(48:50):
But then I see where, once youstart to listen a little bit,
not to yourself but to others Istart to listen a little bit not
to yourself but to others Istart to see parts of that wall
fall in.
But then there's somebodytrying to build that wall back
up.
And then you listen again, oryou talk to someone or you

(49:11):
recognize your faults, and thenI see the wall come down.
But somebody's always trying tobuild that wall back up and I
don't know if that's you, Idon't know if that's the devil,
I don't know who it is, but Ikeep seeing you build the wall
and then the wall comes down.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
And every time.

Speaker 4 (49:27):
Every time the wall comes down, I see your shoulders
come down, and so I don't knowwhat that is.
But yes, I want to hear aboutyour faith journey, because I
know that that is a pivotalmoment in your life, to where
you are truly starting to tearthose walls down.

Speaker 5 (49:44):
Absolutely, and it's, it's, it's, it's.
It's pretty cool how you cansee right through me and you
really don't even know mebecause you're so right and it's
, it's all the things that yousaid.
It's me, it's, it's the devil,it's, it's, it's, it's all, it's
all that stuff, and I can'tbelieve I left out some of the
faith stuff in there and that'swhy I have it written down on
the script over there.

(50:04):
But I said, doug, come in thereand don't just have the
conversation.
So there you went to school,for went to Catholic school for
about five years.
There was really not a wholelot of church or religion in the
family.
What I say is there werecrosses on the walls.
Both families were Catholic.

(50:25):
We went to church for the bigthree weddings, funerals and
holidays, if that but alsodidn't have any bad experiences,
because I know that there are alot of people out there that
did have bad experiences, but Inever did.
I would say I was alwayscurious, um, and, like I said,
in 2016, I started going andvisiting this church and that
church just simply looking forhelp.

(50:45):
Um, but when I got intorecovery, seeing how, how rooted
, uh, the 12 step program that Iworked, what um worked, was and
is in spirituality.
I was open to it.
I was open to anything andeverything that you were selling
me just to help me out withthis drinking thing.
Right At first I didn't wantyour God, your Jesus, your

(51:08):
church.
But if that's part of thispackage I'm okay with it.
But it's also kind of in thewording that the 12 steps use.
They don't tell you what God,they don't tell you what
religion, they don't tell youwhat church you know.
But I think some of thehighlights.
I was open, I was open tolistening, I was opening to

(51:30):
suggestions and the more open Iwas, the more the more gifts I
was.
The more gifts I was receiving,the more the more help, the
more answers I was receiving.
And in about day 50 of sobrietya buddy of mine reached out,
wanted to get together for lunch, a guy that I know for over 20

(51:52):
years.
I met him through work.
He reached out to me and wantedto get together for lunch and I
really wanted to get togetherwith him.
And the reason I wanted to gettogether with him is that in
June of 16, he invited me tothis retreat and I was curious
about this retreat.
I was curious why he invited me, big man of faith.

(52:12):
But I thought he knew what wasgoing on with me, because when I
would get drunk sometimes Iwould send him messages because
I thought he might be somebodythat could help me.
So we were set to go to lunchand, uh, he reached out to me at
the last minute.
He said, hey, instead of goingto lunch, why don't we meet at

(52:33):
the gym?
And I'm like, oh, I don't wantto meet at the gym.
But I was like, shut up andlisten, doug, maybe to say hey,
instead of going to lunch, whydon't we meet at the gym?
And I'm like I don't want tomeet at the gym.
But I was like, shut up andlisten, doug, maybe just say,
yes, this guy is in better shapethan you, maybe you can learn
something from him.
So we get to the gym and we'reon the treadmills and we're
doing, oh, how's the wife, how'sthe life?
All the normal blah, blah, blah, the catch up.
I was like, all right man.

(52:53):
I was like you know that retreatthing you invited me to last
year, like, why did you inviteme to that?
And he said, douglas, he waslike the only answer I can give
you is that for some reason Godkeeps putting your name on my
heart and me just boom, becausethe day 50, my mind and my heart

(53:16):
were starting to open up.
And he's like, what makes youask?
And I'm like I'm like, allright, let's go sit down on a
bike.
So I just, I just word vomiteverything that's been going on
in my life for I don't know howmany years.
And he's like, wow.
And then he shared some thingswith me and I'm like, wow, Right

(53:42):
, you made here's anothersuccessful man that he's
actually had some problems tohis own problems, his own
situations, his own story.
But I'm like this is anothergrown man that on the outside I
thought had everything puttogether Right Cause I think a
lot of us just think and assumethat way, or at least I did for
the better part of my life.

Speaker 4 (54:02):
Okay, a lot of people .

Speaker 5 (54:04):
Yeah, and he said you know that retreat last year.
He was like there just happensto be another one next week and
I knew where he was going withit.
My wall started coming up, myshoulder started tensing up,
like you said, and see, and Iwas like, well, send me some
information, I'll check mycalendar Right.
One of the one of the normalresponses we all have when we're

(54:26):
already planning a no, a nothank you in our head.
He said, douglas, just say yes.
And that was one of the thingsI had heard in sobriety is when
people you just start saying yes.
And I was nervous about it andI remember sharing that in my
12-step meetings and somebodywrote down on a piece of paper.

(54:49):
They said, hey, when you'regoing through stuff like this,
we simply need to ask ourselveswhat's in the best interest of
our sobriety.
You're going through stuff likethis, we simply need to ask
ourselves what's in the bestinterest of our sobriety.
So I said okay.
I said, uh, this is one ofthose retreats where you don't
take your phone or nothing.
There's no technology.
So I was like it probablywouldn't hurt to go off the grid
, leave my phone off for 72hours.
Um, it is probably isn't thebest interest to my sobriety,

(55:11):
and if it helps me out and withmy spirituality at all, it's a
win, win, win.
Because when I was going inthere I didn't want your Bible,
I didn't want your G, I didn'twant your Bible thumping right.
So they pick you up at fiveo'clock on a Thursday for this,
and right before that I'm on thephone with my mom, I start a
fight, I'm yelling at her, I'mcrying.
She did nothing wrong.

(55:32):
I was scared.
I was scared Right.
So hop in the car with this guy.
We're heading down, we'reheading down to Indy, and I
remember he drops his bomb on me.
He was like oh yeah, when I,when we get there, I've got to
go to the airport.
I'm heading out of town forwork and I'm like what?
I'm like you mean, you're notgoing to be with me this whole
weekend, you're just dropping meoff with all these Jesus freaks

(55:55):
.
I'm like right, and he was likewhoops, sorry.
He was like just look, justlook, for this guy named Sky Ho.
Sky, if you hear this, thankyou, love you, brother.
And I was like who is thisfruitcake in my head?
I'm like who is this fruitcakenamed Sky Ho?

(56:21):
You're leaving me with and uh,and we get down there and I'm
I'm petrified right Cause I'mseeing all these people that all
these Jesus freaks?
Bible thumpers, right, I have noidea, right, but I'm just
scared.
So I remember one of the firstthings that we, uh, we did is we
sat down and they gave us somenote cards and look at the guy
on your left, that's your newbest friend.
And I'm like, oh, this is.
And, uh, one of the questionswas tell us something

(56:42):
interesting about yourself.
And in my mind I'm like there'snothing interesting about my
life right now.
I'm not here because I'm on awinning streak.
My life is hell right now.
My life is in shambles rightnow.
Right, and I was like writedown that I'm going out of town
for 30 days next week, which Ireally was.
I was going out of town forwork for 30 days and, uh, he

(57:04):
kind of just gave me this looklike what's interesting?
I'm like he probably, heprobably saw the walls now and
at the last minute I said Iscratched that out and I put on
there that I'm sober for 50something days.
And you saw, just I realizedwhat I had tasked him with, that
he was going to get up on stageand introduce that, this guy
that he doesn't even know, asthe alcoholic Right.

(57:26):
And God bless this guy, my newbest friend, Peter.
He did it with such gracebecause I remember standing up
there and my heads I'm notlooking at anybody, my head's on
the floor and I remember whenhe said it.
I remember lifting my eyes upand other guys going giving me
thumbs up and welcoming me withacceptance and grace.

(57:51):
And then, um I don't know ifanybody knows his name is this
guy's name is Dave Calabro.
He was the, the lead sports guyon the NBC network in
Indianapolis, a local celebrity.
And I remember when I picked myhead up off the ground, he's
looking at me and he's giving mea thumbs up.
So that gave me some.
That gave me some strength andhope.

(58:12):
Um, and they, they sat us at atable, at our own table.
I was the table of Luke, andGod blessed those guys that I
spent that weekend with becauseI was, I was broken and I was, I
was.
I let a lot out that weekendand I'm still.
I'm still connected with thoseguys.

(58:33):
I text them this morning saying, hey, here's what I'm doing
this morning, Thanks for being apart of this Cause they, they
helped me.
They helped me get sober andstay sober and they helped me
find my, my, my faith, myconnection.

Speaker 4 (58:51):
Isn't that amazing how, when you let down the walls
and you have all that fear andanxiety of going and doing
something, that you think thatyou're better than right.
That's what you thought.
You know I don't need this.
And how many years later isthis now?
I mean over eight, over eightyears later.
It still impacts you that those, those three days had on you.

(59:16):
What if you wouldn't have went?

Speaker 5 (59:19):
I mean other pieces that were so hugely
transformational.
That weekend is so that Sky Hoguy, that fruitcake, he was at
my table and he's there nudgingme the whole time and even on
Saturday I still don't want tobe there, kind of, I'm still

(59:40):
fighting, I'm still fighting it,I'm still fighting, all of it,
fighting, surrendering.
And the church that it was atright across the street is the
FBI building and we would getbreaks every once in a while to
get out and walk the parking lot.
It was nice weather outside andall the guys were walking
together, but I would walk bymyself.
I was still the loner, theisolator, right, because you're

(01:00:04):
not my people, you guys aredifferent, this or that.
So there was a big rock betweenthe church and the FBI building
and I used to go sit on it andI had an escape plan in my head.
I'm like, if I just can't takeit no more, I'm just going to
grab my stuff.
I don't have a wallet, I don'thave a phone, I'm just going to
go over to the FBI building attheir little security shack and
say, hey, I'm a recoveringalcoholic, I need one phone call

(01:00:27):
, help me out, help me out, bro.
But Saturday the wall reallystarted to come down and I
didn't want to go home.
That addiction to my phone.
I finally let that go and I waslike man, I don't want to go
home because I know as soon as Igo home I'm going to grab that
phone.
And the whole time Sky wasnudging me to get baptized and

(01:00:51):
at first I wanted nothing to dowith it.
But some of his words were likeuse this as an opportunity to
leave the old Doug behind.

(01:01:12):
Um, so I was like you know whatI think I want to.
So I got back, I got baptizedthat weekend and, uh, just in a,
a huge transformational weekendthat helped me get and stay
sober.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
Can you go back to that baptism?
When you felt the water, whatdid you feel?
What'd?

Speaker 5 (01:01:35):
you feel, um, I felt like it was an opportunity to
leave the old Doug behind, toleave, to leave, to leave as
much of it there as I could, andreally not understanding what

(01:01:55):
it meant then, and to have thesupport of the men, the guys
that were there, the 30, 40, 50,how many of our guys were there

(01:02:16):
that were doing nothing butvolunteering and serving,
sharing their testimoniesBecause that was another big
piece of the weekend is mensharing their stories, whether
it was related to drinking ordrugging, or depression, or
relationships, or being in theservice, whatever it was, the
vulnerability, the honesty andthe vulnerability.
So that was a transformationalweekend.

(01:02:37):
But I think what is worthsharing is when I got out of
there, I got addicted to Jesus,which was great, but the other
battle, the other internalbattle that started I was like
so which is more important?
Because on some there's some isGod number one or is my
sobriety number one?

(01:02:57):
And I struggled with that for awhile.
But where I landed is I use my,I use my faith, I use my
spirituality for my heart and Iuse my, uh, the things that I do
for my sobriety from my head,cause my prayer used to be hey,
god, keep me sober today.
Thanks for keeping me sober Now.

(01:03:19):
It's help me do the things thatI need to do, because just
praying and meditating and goingto church and reading the Bible
that type of stuff, memorizingBible verses it's all great.
I don't think that those arethe things that are going to
keep me sober.
I have to continue to spendtime with alcoholics and addicts
to remind me what it was like,because I'm a great forgetter.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
I'm a great forgetter .
You and I've used this a lot onthe podcast because it's almost
relatable to every singleperson that we've had on here.
But ed my let, someone who whowas was really inspirational in
my life here in the past coupleyears and master motivator, just
amazing man with words, and hisdad was an alcoholic and, um,

(01:04:13):
you know he talks about and heshares his story a lot about how
it hit him one night when hewas laying in bed here in the
past couple of years thatsomeone helped his dad, who had
the same issue.
That he had.
So he talks about.
You know, in life we're mostqualified to help the person we

(01:04:33):
used to be.
And when I hear your story anda lot of people that have been
through addiction, recovery andthose 12-step programs and AA
and all those things, those arethe people who have been down
the road you've been down, whohave faced the demons you've
faced, who have overcome thembut recognize that overcoming

(01:04:58):
them might just be that day andthen you're going to do it again
the next day.
You know, kevin asked you whenyou got here what you wanted
your title to be on the screen.
What'd you tell him?

Speaker 5 (01:05:12):
One at a time, Because that's what I learned in
the 12-step rooms.
The reason a lot of people askhow does it work?
Why does it work as good as itdoes?
It's simply one person sharingtheir experience.
I mean, 12-step programs arearound 80 years old, but there's

(01:05:36):
not rules.
Here's what you have to do.
They say things like thoroughlyfollow the path of the person in
front of you.
So I mean, I got sponsoredbecause of my sponsor, he had a
sponsor, and it's simply ussitting down and sharing what
our experience was like.
And then here's the tools infront of you, and at first it's

(01:05:58):
one day at a time and early onit's not even one day at a time
and I actually have a sign in myoffice at work.
And I also want to thank myemployer.
Thank God that I have anemployer that allows me to be as
open as I am, from my boss,which is the president, to my

(01:06:20):
coworkers and my peers and theboard of trustees that entrust
me to do what I do for them andto be able to live this out loud
as much as I can, because Ibelieve I don't do it for me.
There's a part of it in therefor me because I know at the end
of the day it's going to help.
But hopefully there's one thingin my, in my message and my
experience that helps others.

(01:06:40):
But early on, it's not justeven one day at one day at a
time is too much.
Sometimes it's one hour at atime, one thing at a time, one
minute at a time.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Um, that's powerful, it is and and.
It doesn't matter if it'saddiction, it doesn't matter if
it's fitness, it doesn't matterif it's food.
Um, you know, you have to trulybreak things down in small
segments.
You know, if you try to biteoff the apple, you know put the
whole apple in your mouth it'snot going to work.
But you eat it one bite at atime.
Right, your sobriety is onehour at a time.
I mean you're surrounded.
I mean, in this world it'sglorified to drink, to be cool.

(01:07:23):
Right, we see it on TV, we seeit in social media.
You know, young kids talk aboutit all the time, about how many
beers they had, how drunk theygot the night before.
You know it's a celebratedthing.
So to be on the flip side ofthat and recognize, man, there's
nothing good about it, likethere's really truly nothing
good about it.
The only good that came from itis that you recognize how bad

(01:07:46):
it was and now it's your goal inyour life to help others, which
, in return, helps you.

Speaker 5 (01:07:52):
Yeah, and for me is because I never like to paint a
picture that I don't point thefinger at the Anheuser-Busch's
or the Crown Royals it's I'llnever point the finger, that
I'll never point the finger ofblame.
Yes, we do live, and I thinkit's a fair statement that the
society and cultures that it'sit can be a big part of it from

(01:08:16):
a tradition standpoint.
Uh, but for me, um, and that'swhere I'll back up a little bit,
uh, cause, if I'm going to behere and honest, um, when I
started peeling back that onion,that layer of that onion, um, I
love to smoke weed.
Looking back now, that was atool I use for my anxiety.

(01:08:40):
That's why I liked it so much.
Um, I tried acid, had a badtrip one night.
It started snowing in July inSt Louis.
It doesn't snow in St Louis inJuly.
So that's when I was like, okay, acid, bad, and I put it in
that box.

(01:09:02):
In my 20s I got into cocaine.
I loved cocaine, loved it.
There was a stage where, um,because I was doing such a good
job of managing my life, I hadto move back in the basement
with mommy and my 20, in myearly twenties, and um Easter

(01:09:30):
Sunday morning I'm in thebasement by myself and I left my
face up and I've got blow allover my face.
Luckily, that little voiceinside my head went something's
probably not right with that,right?
So I put Coke in that box ofbad too.

(01:09:50):
So here I am, trying to manage,right, yeah.
And then in my early thirties Igot into pills.
I had a bad back and a bad neck.
I had an.
I had a resource to get Vicodin.
I loved Vicodin and I lovedtaking it about one or two

(01:10:14):
o'clock in the afternoon while Iwas at work, because it helped
me.
What I realized?
It helped me concentrate, helpslow my brain down that anxiety,
right, because I was also veryhyperproductive, because I'm
Doug, right, I get things done.
So, looking back, it was alwayssomething.

(01:10:36):
It was always something else.
And then I would just try tobox it up, compartmentalize it,
manage it, control it.
And then when I got sober, I hadthe chance to smoke cigarettes,
because when I was drinking Iwas smoking and I was scared to
put.
I hated smoking when I wasn'tdrinking, but I had to have it

(01:10:59):
when I was drinking.
So I had a chance to smoke acigarette.
I'm like no, I got scared toput those two hands close
together.
And then I had the opportunityto smoke weed because, yes, a
lot of opinions and laws havechanged on it, but I'm living
this new lifestyle now.
Right, I'm working this programwhere there's principles, I'm

(01:11:21):
trying to do things the rightway and not justify doing things
just for my selfish benefit.
So the conversation in my headwas if I get popped on the job,
I could lose my job and at theend of the day it's illegal.
So end of conversation, Doug,so no weed.
And then I actually, and then Iwas on a big golf trip, that 30
day trip.

(01:11:41):
I was on and, um, we weregolfing, and one of my buddies,
johnny the Greek, he busted outthe cigars at 10 o'clock in the
morning.
I love smoking cigars because Ilove to do everything right, and
I got that little bit of, gotthat little bit of buzz or rush
feeling from a cigar.
And that's when I said you knowwhat the definition of my

(01:12:04):
sobriety?
Because the only person that'sgoing to define what my sobriety
is is me and I'm not going tojudge you.
If your definition of sobrietyis doing this or doing that,
that's you.
If your definition of sobrietyis doing this or doing that,
that's you.
But the definition of mysobriety is I don't want to put
anything in my body that's goingto alter my mind in any way,
shape or form, outside of, maybe, starbucks and things of that

(01:12:27):
nature.

Speaker 4 (01:12:30):
Yeah, it's amazing.
And I think the other amazingthing is what you're doing now
Talk about, talk about your jobnow, um, and how different it is
from what you did before.

Speaker 5 (01:12:43):
How are we on on time ?
Do we need to do the shortversion of the long version?
It's this year show man, causeI don't think it's fair.
It doesn't make sense for me toshare what I'm doing now If I
don't include some of how I gothere.
Um, so I'm four years sober.
Well, I'm backing up a littlebit.
So this would have been 2020,21.
Um, I'm four years sober.

(01:13:06):
Um, I'm I'm bouncing around insome jobs because I was trying
to find what's my purpose andthis and that, trying to find
something meaningful.
So I'm bouncing around and on aFriday night I go to a church
event from this same retreatthat I went to because I'm still
staying connected to thatfamily.
And I look at my bank accountand I've got enough money until

(01:13:31):
payday for food, shelter and gas.
So on my way to the church, Istopped at another church
because I saw this.
You know those little housesthey have sometimes on street
corners and stuff with food inthere.
I got a box of the.
I got a box of food out ofthere.
So I go to the church event andeverybody's asking how things

(01:13:52):
were going and great.
After that church event, Iparked in a parking lot at a
hospital in Carmel, indiana,because that's where my shelter
was going to be that night,didn't have a place to live at
the time because ofcircumstances and choices.

(01:14:13):
Right, because the whole time Iwas making all that money I was
blowing it as fast as I wasgetting it, because my solution
was things are bad, bury my headin my work, make more money,
solve all the problems.
No, so about 12 or 1 o'clock inthe morning I'm cold, trying to
sleep in my car and I'm like Ican't do this, no more.

(01:14:35):
So I finally get on Google andI'm looking for men's shelters.
So I finally get one of them topick up the phone.
They say we can't get you intonight, but tomorrow we got a
bed for you.
So the next day I go check intothis place and I'm very
grateful that they gave me foodand shelter.

(01:14:56):
I was there for a while, but Iwasn't telling anybody I was
there.
I was telling some people, butI wasn't being honest.
So while I was there duringCOVID, a lot of everything got
shut down.
Right Recovery rooms got shutdown.
We had Zoom rooms.

(01:15:18):
So a guy that I knew in Carmelasked me if I would get on Zoom
that night and do my testimony.
It was a 12-step meeting onlinefor a guy that he knew in New
York, based in Miami now.
So I'm like, why me Right?

(01:15:38):
And?
But I said yes, I shut up.
I said yes, and for some reasonthat night I got on there with
a bunch of people I didn't know,four years sober and I finally
started sharing Some more thingsthat happened in my life that I
think uh, contributed why Ilike to put so much alcohol and

(01:16:03):
drugs in my body to try to fillholes.
Um, and I'd love to share morespecifics on some of that stuff,
but I know if I do share someof those specifics it could
possibly harm others or hurtpeople.

Speaker 4 (01:16:20):
Um, but you essentially shared that the
struggles from a shelter right.

Speaker 5 (01:16:27):
Yeah, I shared it from a yeah, from a shelter, um,
and why that's important to thestory is also why I'm in the
shelter one night.
I'm back in the food pantrywhich I.
That's one of the things I alsowhy I'm in the shelter One
night.
I'm back in the food pantry,which that's one of the things I
loved.
I can't believe I'm sittinghere saying I love being in a
shelter Because I'd have fullaccess to a food pantry 24-7.
I'm back there grabbing potatochips and cookies.
There's a chip clip from NatcoCredit Union back there.

(01:16:54):
For those that are local, natcoCredit Union is based and rooted
in Richmond, indiana, andthey're in Wayne and Fayette
County.
That's it, natco Credit Union.
I had known people there forover 20 years.
We met at a conference 20 plusyears ago.
We stayed in touch.
Then in my other walks of life,they were a client of mine in

(01:17:17):
two chapters.
I still stay in touch with thembecause they were helping me.
They hadn't repossessed my caryet I'm in a shelter, right,
they didn't repossess my shelter.
So I see this Natco creditunion ship back here.
So I see this Natco creditunion ship back here.
So I sent it to, I think, theCEO and God bless you, cindy at

(01:17:45):
Natco and everybody there.
So that was about November-ish,december-ish.
I moved down.
When I got out of the shelter Iwent to Greenfield because
that's where my mom was, and Iremember being on the phone I
think it was with Cindy, the CEOat Natco on December the 15th
and we always joked around aboutworking together.
She was like I can't afford you, but when I'm in Greenfield I'm

(01:18:09):
.
I was like you know what?
I think I'm closer to Richmondnow than I am Indy, and I think
that's when the wheel startedspinning March the 4th.
She reached out to me.
She's like hey, I think I gotsomething for you.
My community developmentmanager's retiring.

(01:18:29):
I think I can bring you in.
I said, yes, I had a prettygood job, but this was an
opportunity.
So getting ready to startworking in Richmond, indiana,
and people are like back inthere, like they're like why
Richmond's got it struggles,right?
So I'm living in Carmel's andFisher's and Westfield, but I
can't afford it, right?
People are like why are yougoing out to Richmond Really?

(01:18:49):
So then the next, and I didn'thave to move out here.
But at the same time I'm likeif I want to be the community
development manager.
I probably need to live in thatcommunity and know what's going
on.
Right, it's an hour, both ways,beautiful drive, but sometimes
it's dark.
And one morning I'm on my wayto work and it's really dark,
it's really foggy and I almosthit something right in front of

(01:19:11):
me School bus Because it was sodark coming up 40, so dark and
foggy, I could hardly sit andI'm like okay for safety, I got
to start making a move.
Uh, so that day there, um, I'mleaving the office to go to
lunch.
Half a mile from the office Isee a sign of a new apartment
for rent.

(01:19:31):
So I go to lunch and I'm likeMike, mom set, are you on
staying in Greenfield?
She's like I'm not, my rent'sgoing up.
So I go back by this apartmentclean enough, nice enough, price
is right enough.
They say give us a calltomorrow, we'll let you know.
And I'm like I don't have tofill out an application, I don't
have to do an application fee,because I'm used to that living

(01:19:52):
in St Louis and in Indiana andstuff.
The next day they call me backan hour early.
They're like if you wanted a,cheers.
And I'm like Whoa, whoa, whoa,this is going.
I'm going really fast again,cause that's what Doug does, and
I sat on it for about 45minutes.
I'm like, what are you doing Ifyou don't jump on this
apartment?
Somebody else is.
So the next thing you know I'mmoving to Richmond.

(01:20:12):
So here I am again making bigdecisions fast.
So everybody's like, whoa,you're working in Richmond, now
you're moving out there and, um,I call him one of the one of
the God shots I got.
That next day on the in theIndianapolis news the headline
story was the cookie problem inFishers, indiana, and if you

(01:20:33):
guys heard of crumble cookies,so the headline news that
morning was the cookie problemis the long line that people had
to wait in to get their highdollar cookies.
So that was my affirmationmoment right there.
It's like, doug, you are goingwhere you're supposed to be
going, or maybe you're going tobe doing a job now.

(01:20:54):
Maybe you are going to beserving some real problems, not
that you're going to solve allthe problems, but maybe you're
going to be involved in somework and have the opportunity
where there's real problems andnot cookie problems.
Um, so came out here to workfor Natco and I think reasons
that are really important,important to share that story is

(01:21:17):
um that first year that I'mhere um, september is recovery
month.
So how amazing is it that it'sAugust the 27th and we're
getting ready to kick offrecovery month and the very last
day of the month there's um alot of regional events.
That's International OverdoseAwareness Day, and one of the
churches was having an event andDana Sinclair, my coworker at

(01:21:42):
NatCo.
She asked me if I would do, Ithink, a 10 minute testimony and
I'm like, yeah, I do mytestimony, I do my leads all the
time, right.
So I walk into the church thatnight and, oh my God, the fear.
Because I saw this person thatI serve on a chamber of commerce
committee with.

(01:22:02):
I see this person, I'm seeingall these people because I'm the
new guy in town.
Right, I'm the communitydevelopment guy.
Now, right, I'm getting readyto get up on stage and out
myself as the new guy.
That's also the alcoholicrecovering alcoholic addict.
And I sat in the back like Idid.
Shoulders are getting all tight, hands are sweaty and I'm like,
oh my God, what am I going todo?

(01:22:23):
And for some reason, a voiceinside my head said stop running
from it, stop running from it.
So I got up on stage and I saidsome of those things like when
I got here, I got scared andafraid and embarrassed and
shameful because I saw you thatI serve on a chamber committee

(01:22:44):
with and that's when I startedsaying things like my name is
Doug Macias, I am an alcoholicand I am the community
development manager at NACOCredit because I had my NACO
shirt on.
So that was a huge moment forme where I drew a line in the
sand and really owned who I waspast and present and reasons.

(01:23:07):
I share things like that isbecause in our first year of
suggestions, that's one of thethings that I share with other
people now when they're curiousabout getting sober, because me,
when I first got sober, Iwanted to let everybody know
that I was sober and I was doingthis 12-step thing right.
But what I've learned is maybeyou should sit on that, maybe

(01:23:30):
you should put that on that listof big decisions in your first
year, because once you let itout, once you break your
anonymity, there's nothing thatI can say or do to control what
other people say or do or feelabout the information that I've
shared about me.
So I say it out loud, but Idon't say that you have to say

(01:23:52):
your story out loud.
That's a personal choice anddecision, but for me that's what
really helped.
So NACO Credit Union Richmond,wayne County, has been so
supportive and embracing on me,living it out loud as out loud
as I have, because all I want todo is help other people,

(01:24:12):
because I know it does helpother people, because I can sit
here and tell you all the greatstories.
But I remember my sponsorsaying things like if you want
to stay sober, you're going tohave to step over a lot of dead
bodies.
So for a while I was able tosay that the guys that I was
sponsoring, they're doing good.
But I do have the individualthat did die from drinking, that

(01:24:39):
did die the way that you hearpeople, that that people do die
when it comes to alcoholism andaddiction, when it comes to,
when it comes to suicide andthings like that.

Speaker 4 (01:24:55):
Suicide and things like that.
I'm going to stop you for asecond Because I think you hit
on.
The key to this life Is whenyou finally realize man, woman,

(01:25:18):
husband, wife, son, daughter,and when you realize it's not
about you, it's about helpingothers.
When you make that realization,I think that's when your life
truly changes.
And I don't know how manypeople will be watching this and
watch you, but as you weretelling that story and you were

(01:25:39):
talking about being in the back,getting sweaty hands, sweaty,
nervous, your shoulders dropped.
Like I saw it, like I saw thechange, like we've been doing
this now for an hour and 26minutes and when you started you

(01:26:02):
had those walls up and I justwatched you change.
Your shoulders dropped and theydropped right when you said I
don't know that you exactly saidit, but it came out that when
you realized that it wasn'tabout you, it was about helping
others, that's when you madethat change.

(01:26:22):
And I think that's the mostimportant piece in our life is
when we stop thinking aboutourselves and we start thinking
about others, and then sometimesthat's relating our story and
we start thinking about others,and then sometimes that's
relating our story, sharing ourstory to help others, Because
people can relate to thatvulnerability.
Whatever that story might be,but I just saw it.

(01:26:43):
I just saw it.
It's an awesome thing to see,man.
Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you, yeah, what you got,ben.

Speaker 1 (01:26:52):
So, if you can just talk a little bit about you kept
mentioning like the what, likethe approach, the words that
your therapist would say andlike the way that they would say
it, like they're not likecommanding you to do something
right, like you should, you needto do this, we're doing this.
When you got invited to theretreat, can you talk about like
that approach, a little bitLike the way that you said, like
the way that they worded it was, like it was like inviting you

(01:27:15):
to do something?
Can you kind of go back on thatCause you mentioned it like
several times when you weretalking and it seems like if
somebody would have approachedyou in another way, like you
would have probably been like no, like, absolutely not.

Speaker 5 (01:27:28):
Yeah, and I think it goes back to just how we are as
humans.
I don't think anybody anybodylikes to be told what to do, so

(01:27:52):
the language that I gravitatedto and the language and the
communication style that I tryto use now is simply here's my
experience, here's mysuggestions, if you want them.
Sometimes I ask permission.
Do you want me just to listenor do you want me to respond?
Here's what worked for me.
I consider myself a collector oftools.
Now I've got this bag sittinghere and I've got all the tools

(01:28:12):
that I've got from 12-stepprograms, from Celebrate
Recovery, from Recovery Church,from the church or churches.
I think there's many paths torecovery.
There's many paths to help tobetter.

(01:28:36):
I want to have a bag with everytool that Lowe's has.
Right, because when we'reworking on our car or something
at the house, if we don't havethe tool in our toolbox, we go
to the garage.
If it's not in the garage, we goout to Menards or Lowe's and
sometimes we think we bought thetool that's going to work, but

(01:28:57):
then we have to go back, and Ialso use the season analogy,
like right now we've gotlawnmowers and weed eaters and
about a month or two, and Idon't like wintertime, but when
the leaves start coming downwe're going to have to get out
of our rakes and then the snowis going to come right.
If I take my lawnmower out totry to plow the snow, it's

(01:29:19):
probably not going to work thatgood.
So I look at our recovery andlife in general.
We're going to go throughdifferent seasons and sometimes
I'm going to use a tool that'sgoing to help me today, but I
might be going through the samething two weeks from now.
That tool ain't going to work.
So I want to try to collect asmany tools as I can for myself,

(01:29:43):
but then to also to provide toothers.
Hey, this tool worked for me,but it might not work for you,
and I know your question startedoff with the language, but I
think it's just the way that wecommunicate.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
It's just another tool.

Speaker 5 (01:29:58):
And it's.
It's not telling people whatthey have to do.
It's not my business to eversay that anybody is an alcoholic
or an addict.
That's up to them.
I'm not going to ever tellanybody what they have to do.
I can give you suggestions onwhat worked for me and what has
worked for others in the 80years of 12 step programs and
things like that.
But it's um, it's just it.

(01:30:21):
It's it's open and it's.
It's based on experience andsuggestions.
At that makes sense and it's Itry not to use words like I or
you a whole lot and make it morewe.

(01:30:42):
And that was one of the bigthings that I learned in 12
steps.
You probably heard I'm a hugebeliever in 12 steps.
There's 12 steps, but there'sabout 200 words in those 12
steps and I remember peopletelling me earlier that
sometimes the about 200 words inthose 12 steps, and I remember
people telling me earlier thatsometimes the most powerful
words in the steps are thesmallest words.
And the most powerful word inthe 12 steps is the first word,
which is we.
If I've learned anything, it'sI can't do it alone.

(01:31:06):
I don't want to do it aloneanymore.
I see where that got me.
I see where that got me.
I see where it got me.
I mean, the first step is whenit talks about managing your

(01:31:37):
life.
My life had become unmanageable.
My mindset on that is is I'vegiven up full custody of my life
.
I never want to have it again.
I've given custody of my lifeto the 12 steps, to the rooms,
to my sponsors, to God, to otherpeople that have shared
experience, to other people thathave shared experience, because
I prove over and over again,when Doug tries to manage his

(01:31:58):
life on his own, things getmessed up real quick.
So I hope that answered yourquestion.
I don't know it does.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
And I also like the we thing, because you said you
know that you can't handle itLike like the we as in.
Like I've handled, I've triedto handle it, I can't handle it.
I can't handle it Like like thewe as in.
Like I've handled, I've triedto handle it, I can't handle it,
I can't handle it.
But I'd also imagine that's apretty lonely place too.
So when you hear somebody elsesay we, it gives you that power
to like you're not doing thisalone, like I'm here with you,
like you're not alone, no more.
Like we're going to battle ittogether.

Speaker 5 (01:32:36):
Yeah, I mean we is the most powerful word, because
the experience that I connectedto is I think I was about a year
or two in and for some reasonit was a Sunday afternoon I was
driving somewhere, it was nice,and I stopped to get gas, so I
had to go inside and go to thebathroom and it was a Sunday and
I walked past the beer coolers.
I wasn't tempted, but thethought came in my head.
I was like I wasn't tempted,but the thought came in my head.
I was like I wonder what the itthing will be that will ever

(01:32:57):
really really test my sobriety,Because that's something we
what's going to be that it thing, right, and it was my dad.
I was like, if and whenanything happened, because my
dad was, my dad was dying fromcancer.
I got sober in 16.
He died and he died in 18.
And, um, so it was my dad.
That was the thing in my head.

(01:33:20):
Um, and I was still in a frameof mind that if I go back out,
I'm not coming back.
If you catch my drift, if I goback out and drink or drug again
, I'm not coming back, I'm notgoing, I'm not going back to
that hell again out and drink ordrug again.
I'm not coming back, I'm notgoing.
I'm not going back to that hellagain.
I'll take myself out of thegame some way, shape or form.
That's a terrible place to bein.
That's a terrible place to bein.

(01:33:41):
That's a terrible mindset to bein when you're sober and
supposedly work in a program.
But that's where I realized howselfish I still was, because,
thank goodness, there was enoughnew thought patterns in my mind
that said how selfish wouldthat be, Doug, that you'd put
your parents in a position tohave to bury you.
How selfish would that be?

(01:34:02):
That?
That's the example, that's thememory that you would leave for
your niece and nephew that theiruncle took himself out the game
, and also the reminders of the12th step is.
It talks about carrying amessage and helping others.
Everything that I do, I'mcarrying a message that

(01:34:25):
represents 12 steps recovery,sobriety faith.
So everything I do, I'm anambassador of that.
Sobriety faith so everything Ido, I'm an ambassador of that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:44):
But my selfish just can get wrapped around.
That real quick, real quick man, that's powerful.
If I can ask one more thing,yeah, and this is this is one
that I wish.
We just had a podcast a coupledays ago and it was kind of on
the same thing.
But when you're at that spot andyou know, I'm trying to think
from a family aspect right thepart where you're going back to
the holidays again and you'restruggling again and you didn't

(01:35:07):
want it to be that holiday, youknow the same thing that
happened the last holiday again.
At that point, is there anythingthat your family or coworkers
um and this isn't like yourfamily or coworkers but when
somebody's at that spot andyou're a family member or your
coworker and you see somebodyfrom the outside in that spot,

(01:35:27):
what would be your advice tothem, how they could help, how
they could?
Is there a spot, like do youhave to hit rock bottom before
you get pulled out of there?
Or you know what I mean Likeit's not a your situation type
thing, but putting yourself backin that situation.
Somebody that's listening tothe podcast I might be seeing
somebody heading down that sameexact path what would be the I

(01:35:50):
wouldn't say answer, but whatwould be the approach.
They could go to meet themthere at that spot and pull them
out before they get to rockbottom, if there is.

Speaker 5 (01:35:59):
So I mean my suggestion based on experience.
So I'm an AA guy.
Aa is for me.
Then in 12-step programsthere's other programs like
Al-Anon.
That is for people on thereceiving end of us, if that

(01:36:20):
makes any sense.
So that's one of my.
I would say that's one of mybiggest, most popular
suggestions for people that areon the receiving end.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
So wives, moms, parents, coworkers, yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:36:34):
Yeah, I mean, that's my, that's the best tool that I
suggest, Um, but I don't want tosay what's funny, but what I?
What I also see in myexperience is so let's say
here's this Al-Anon book.
Mom knows it's there but won'tpick it up.

(01:37:01):
Wife knows it's there but won'tpick it up.
Friend knows that that book isthere but won't pick it up.
So, as much as we want you toquit your drinking, we want you
to quit your drugging.
Here's all the ways that we canhelp you out Go to treatment,
Go to rehab, Go to all thethings that we hear.

(01:37:27):
But on the other side of thecoin, the person that loves and
cares about that person so muchthey're just as stubborn, and
that person should do it becausehe loves that person.
That person should do itbecause they've got a great job.
That person should stop thedrinking or drugging because of

(01:37:47):
the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
So I don't know if that makes any sense.
Oh no, it makes sense.
And that's where I feel like weget to.
So many times, especially nowthat people are starting to tell
their stories and we get thesetestimonies on here, there's
nobody in here.
That's like, well, you know, myhusband was an alcoholic, or at
least that we had.
Yet my husband was an alcoholic.
But you know, I looked at thethings and nobody's telling that
.
Testimony right, so, testimonyright.

(01:38:10):
So it's like, how do we get thepeople that don't want to deal
with the confrontation, don'twant to deal with the, the
fights or the dirty work thatmight have to happen, to just
pick up the book and try?
You know what I mean.
It's not just a one-personbattle like that's what you kept
, the we, that's what's powerful.
And I feel like if the familymembers, if the co-workers,
whoever's seeing it, go downthat hole, if they they came and

(01:38:32):
approaches the we tried to pickup the book, I mean the
resources.

Speaker 5 (01:38:38):
Yeah, and I think, um I mean we, as there's a lot of
us, I mean in the community andbeyond that we we have those
conversations quite often um is,how do we do, how do we do more
of it, how do we do a betterjob of it?
I think that we're seeing aworld of change in the world

(01:39:00):
that we live in when it comes tostuff that life throws at us.
I mean, that's one of thethings that I look at.
I think COVID helped out with,as I think COVID really exposed
I use the analogy that if I openup my front door and look down
the street, when you knock onthe door, at every house
somebody's dealing withsomething, either it's

(01:39:21):
alcoholism or addiction, whetherit's legal or legal depression,
anxiety, issues with my job,issues with my spouse, and I
think COVID made it a little biteasier and acceptable for
people to say man, I'mstruggling, man, I need help.
So I think that we're seeing alot of change and mindset shifts

(01:39:47):
and habits and behaviors in allages and all generations.
But I still think that we havea long way to go, but I think
it's conversations like this andplatforms like this that are
making it a little bit easierand acceptable to do things.

Speaker 4 (01:40:10):
Yeah, for sure, all right.
Last question If you could siton a park bench and have a
conversation with someone,living or deceased, who would it
be and why?

Speaker 5 (01:40:22):
this is the question I've been dreading, because, um,
because I'm not gonna to cry mydad my dad.
He passed away on December, the15th of 2018, from cancer and

(01:40:47):
way too early in my mind and alot of our minds in my mind and
a lot of our minds, um, becauseof um, when mom and dad got
divorced, um, and I started torebel, um, I was mad at my dad

(01:41:10):
and I fought my dad.
I was all I met anger and hurtand pain.
Um, and I fought my dad.
I was all I meant anger andhurt and pain, and I'm not dad.
I'm not pointing the finger atyou, I'm not blaming you for
anything, but I think that'sjust what we as humans do.
We'll take our pain and angerand hurt and and point it at

(01:41:38):
somebody and we'll drink at itand we'll drug at it and we'll
run from it and we'll fight itand all that stuff, but for
years, just fought my dad anddidn't have a good relationship
and it sucks to say it out loud.
I don't like saying it out loud, but I remember it was in my
early 30s my dad was coming downto my office or something and I

(01:41:59):
said you know what?
You can either accept your dadfor the way things are, or you
can continue to have the broken,messy relationship you've had
with him, to have the broken,messy relationship you've had
with them, and I chose to acceptforgive whatever you want to

(01:42:30):
call it.
And we had a much betterrelationship during my 30s.
And I remember when I moved outhere.
I remember my stepmom sayingthat my dad was struggling with
me moving out here and Iremember one time, me and my dad
we didn't talk about thingseither, because I think that was
even more common back then, butstill common is men don't share

(01:42:52):
their feelings and talk abouttheir emotions and stuff, right.
And I remember one day I waswalking in.
I was walking in for lunch downat Elro cause.
I was meeting Cindy from Natcoand right as I'm walking in the
door, my phone's ringing.
It was my dad calling.
My dad didn't call that muchand he was like hey, dougie.
He was like I just wanted tocall you.

(01:43:12):
I got Mexican music on and I'mvacuuming and I miss you, son.
And then when he got cancer, Ididn't go home enough.

(01:43:33):
I always say it's interestingto say what comes out when I do
these.
I didn't go home enough.
I think life makes it hard forus, right, if we're in debt.
You got to go to work, but I'mglad I got sober when I did.
I'm glad that my dad got to seeme sober.

(01:43:55):
We didn't talk a lot, but Ithink we talked a lot and that
was one of the reasons I postedon Facebook all the time.
Him and my mom would be likepost when you get wherever
you're traveling to.
So I'm like I can kill twobirds with one stone.
I can check in at the hotelwherever I'm at, and now mom and
dad know I can check in at thehotel wherever I'm at, and now

(01:44:15):
mom and dad know.
But I think that was a way thatwe got to travel together when
he wasn't able to travel at theend.

Speaker 4 (01:44:22):
What would you say to him right now?

Speaker 5 (01:44:37):
That I'm still sorry.
I don't know if it's a Hispanicor a Mexican thing, but with
our family being big, we'restill proud of our last name,
the Macias, which we are.
But I feel like I disappointedand embarrassed the family, and

(01:45:01):
I always use the baseballanalogy because I can sit here
today and my life is great.
Right, my life is so good.
There's still so many things inmy life that aren't.
There's still a lot of messes,but what I share with other
people is the score of the ballgame.
I lived the way that I lived forover 20 years.
I've only been sober for eightyears, which is a long time, but
the score of the games onlyeight to 20.

(01:45:23):
I got a lot of innings that Istill got to play.
So I just hope that when I getabout 20 years of sobriety that
I've been able to clean up someof the messes with some of the
broken relationships withfriends and family that I still
have.
But I tell him that I'm sorry.
I tell him that I miss him andthat I'm trying.

(01:45:48):
I feel like I'm trying sofricking hard.

Speaker 4 (01:45:58):
It's amazing.
It's amazing man, and this is agood spot to end it.
I mean, you've shared so much,so much that people can gain
from you.
Know the trials that you wentthrough in your life and the
redemption is where you're atright now and recognizing that,

(01:46:19):
um, you know those walls willkeep trying to be built right
and you got to take that stepevery day to keep knocking them
back down, to be open, to bevulnerable, to share your
testimony, to share your story.
It is the reason that we do thisis because of what you said of

(01:46:41):
you know men don't do this.
You know men don't sit around atable and talk about their
failures and their faults andshow emotion.
That's not something that we'retaught to do, but it is so
important because we all carrythat baggage, whatever it is big

(01:47:01):
or small to some, not to others, but it's our, our own unique
story and, um, I knew this onewould be powerful and, uh, you,
I knew this one would bepowerful and you far exceeded my
expectations.
So I appreciate you sharing andbeing so vulnerable with your
story.

Speaker 5 (01:47:21):
Thank you, can I leave?
Can I leave two last statementson the table?
So number one is if there'sanybody out there that wants to
talk more, that wants to hearmore, because I always say is
this is a 49 year old, this is a49 year old, your story that

(01:47:41):
you're hearing.
Yeah, we probably talked foralmost two hours, thank you, but
I could.
There's still.
There's still a lot.
There's a lot more that Ididn't talk about and I'm
willing to share any and all ofit.
I don't care who knows what.
To a certain extent, if there'ssomething in there that can help
somebody, because I know thatit does, and not because I'm

(01:48:04):
Doug Macias, because that's whatwe do when we share our
experience, we know there'sgoing to be something there that
can help somebody.
So, if anybody, local or beyond, because there's a lot fast
forward the tape.
I've been here for four yearsnow.
There's a lot of really goodthings happening in Richmond,
wayne County.
We can do a lot more and we cando a lot bigger things.

(01:48:25):
So, near and far, if there'ssomething that I can help with
in some way, shape or form, andif I don't have the answers,
maybe I can point you in theright direction, cause I look at
it as two ways.
I've got my personal resume andI've got my professional resume
, and if there's anything that Ican bring to the table together
and help you out, that's whatit's all about.

(01:48:51):
And then the second thing that Iwant to close with is when I
always share my story.
I start with February the 4this when I always share my story.
I start with February the 4thof 2016.
That was the moment where Ireally wanted to get sober, the
moment I wanted to get sober forand it's helped me get sober,

(01:49:12):
it helped me stay sober, andthere's a person behind that
story, and I hope that theylisten to this and I think that
they'll know who I'm talkingabout.
But what makes it all worth itis that when I was walking in
today, I got a text from themthat said good luck.

(01:49:35):
And that simple text rightthere, for everything that's
behind the story, is a tool thatI'm going to put in my bag that
will help me stay sober andhelp others.

(01:49:55):
So, thank you, you know who youare.

Speaker 4 (01:50:02):
Thank you, Doug.

Speaker 5 (01:50:03):
Thank you guys, Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:50:05):
We appreciate the vulnerability and you know again
, we ask all of our listenersout there you know somebody,
family know again we ask all ofour listeners out there you know
somebody, family member, friend, that has battled some, or
maybe battling some, of the samedemons that Doug has just
shared and be sure to share, besure to support and do all those

(01:50:31):
things that we need to keep tokeep the momentum going for the
Be Tempered podcast.
We appreciate it.
We love you guys, appreciateDoug and his story and all those
stories that have been sharedto this point and those who are
to come, and we pray that thishelps somebody today Go out and
be tempered.
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.

Speaker 3 (01:51:07):
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Cajun's Glass.
Thanks, allie.
Go out and be tempered.
Also, ask for custom showerdoors and many other products
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years.
Kitchen's class, the clearchoice.

Speaker 4 (01:51:21):
Hey, do you want to catch every episode live as it's
being recorded?
Log on to patreoncom slashbetempered for exclusive footage
, behind the scenes, photos anda live recording as it takes
place.
Go to patreoncom slashbetempered.

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BeTempered Episode 69 - Doug Macias: Finding Faith, Community, and Recovery

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}BeTempered Episode 69 - Doug Macias: Finding Faith, Community, and Recovery