Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
God, I just thank you
for bringing Doug here today
and his testimony and I just askthat you let it hit the ears of
everybody that everybody that'sgoing to affect.
Lord and God, I know that everytime we share a testimony, that
you're the one that gives us thetestimony, you're the one that
gets through the fire.
Satan puts stuff in our livesthat sometimes we get tempted
(00:21):
and sometimes we go with thetemptation.
But wherever we come back toyou at, you meet us right there
and I'm just so thankful that wedon't have to do anything to
receive your grace.
It's just there and I just askthat everybody's that, or
everybody that hears his storyand hears his testimony,
understands that, that the graceis there, that the only thing
we have to do is just understandit and accept it and also have
(00:44):
grace for ourselves, assometimes we're hard on
ourselves, we don't think wedeserve grace, but grace is all
we have lord and it's what givesus the peace to be able to
follow you as closely as we can.
And I just ask that you um justbe with doug as he shares his
testimony and give him power andand and give Dan the the right
things to ask, and I just askthat you just bless this and
(01:08):
just let us feel your presencehere, lord, and it's in your
name we pray.
Amen, amen, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Hi, my name is Ali
Schmidt.
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Thanks, ali.
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Speaker 3 (01:47):
Hey, do you want to
catch every episode live as it's
being recorded?
Log on to patreoncom slash betempered for exclusive footage,
behind the scenes, photos and alive recording as it takes place
.
Go to patreoncom slash betempered.
Welcome to the Be Temperedpodcast, where we explore the
art of finding balance in achaotic world.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Join us as we delve
into insightful conversations,
practical tips and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
We're your hosts, dan
Schmidt and Ben Spahr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
This is Be Tempered.
What's up everybody, welcome tothe Be Tempered podcast,
episode number.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Number 70, Dan why
like that?
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Oh boy, hey.
Today we get the honor ofwelcoming Pastor Justin Wiggand.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Close enough Wiggand,
wiggand.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Pastor Justin Wiggand
.
He and his wife Jenny had thiscrazy idea many years ago that
God was calling them to plant achurch right in the small rural
communities that they both grewup in.
The calling turned intocommunity of faith, which
started within just a fewfamilies back in Lewisburg, ohio
, in 2007.
(03:03):
Since then, what started assomething small has grown into
something pretty amazing Nowfive campuses strong in Ohio and
Indiana all places where realpeople are being reached in the
hope of Jesus.
But here's what I love aboutJustin he's not just preaching
about discipline and faith, he'sliving it.
(03:23):
He's in the middle of the 75hard challenge right now which,
as you know, has beenlife-changing for me and also
for Ben.
That takes grit, commitment andthe willingness to get
uncomfortable, which is what BeTempered is all about.
So we're going to dig into hisstory what it looks like to
plant churches in small towns,how to stay authentic in a world
(03:46):
full of celebrity pastors, andwhat happens when faith and
discipline collide.
Pastor Justin, welcome to theshow.
Where'd you?
Speaker 4 (03:56):
get that?
Did you steal that from ourwebsite?
No, Because I don't even thinkthat that's on our website.
It's not.
But I'm sitting there listeningto it.
I'm like who wrote that?
Like?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
is it good?
Speaker 4 (04:06):
it's okay okay, I I
don't think I want to be viewed
that way like it was reallyintense me and my wife jenny,
and rural community and lewis,like god it sounded.
It sounded really intense.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Well, I really
appreciate it though okay, okay,
you know I can tell you ourresearch and development team
came up with it.
Which is who?
Some new technology, that'sgreat.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
And you just took
something and put it into the
chat.
Gpt Whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
We don't do that.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
What was that name?
I?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
have no idea, I have
no idea.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Is it getting hot in
here?
Must be a new app.
Is it a new app?
Is that what it is?
It's the corduroy that I'mwearing.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh man, well, welcome
to the podcast, thank you man.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
What an honor it is.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I've heard so many
good things about you guys, so
being here is kind of cool.
Well, your name has came upmany times over the past year or
so.
Lots of people saying, hey, youneed to get Pastor Justin on,
he's got a story to tell.
So how we start every podcastis we like to start from the
beginning.
So talk about childhood, whatit was like for you growing up
in in small town USA.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Wait, can I first say
like, ben Spahr is one of the
best basketball players.
I've ever seen in my life I'mserious, like just to get going
like I'm like man and cut.
He's the with the old group ofguys that I play with twice a
week.
He's probably the GOAT there.
(05:43):
So you know, I think that weshould just say that out loud
before we jump into the story.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
How many knee braces
are there in that league?
Speaker 4 (05:52):
You know there's
quite a few.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
It's all about the
guys you go with.
You know there's a lot.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
What's really bad is
when somebody just goes missing
and you're like, well, they'rehurt forever.
But no, ben started coming andman, what a great group of guys
there it is, but seeing Ben play, it's like he's next level.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
He's pretty solid.
I think I'm going to have tocome.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
I want to see some
highlight reels from Dixie when
he played there.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Oh yeah, A lot of
standing under the basket
getting one.
That was my favorite story Oneof my buddies was like hey, I
just uploaded all of our highschool games on youtube and I
got your game winning shot andI'm like I had a game winning
shot.
I like did not know, so youknow you.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
You talk about it
every time.
I see you.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You're like uncle
rico it was great he took it
comes out he took the shot, hemissed it and there's a wide
open backside layup that I got.
Yeah, that was my game winningworks, hey.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
But I want to say
this I've I've heard about you
guys a ton too.
A lot of people ask me hey, doyou listen to the be tempered
podcast?
And when you asked me to be on,I thought I better start
listening to be differentpodcasts.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
So uh, but you didn't
know we were on.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
YouTube I I.
Spotify is the only thing.
I don't have any like socialmedia, so I didn't know you were
on anything other than I knowyou're on Spotify because I have
that.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
So everybody out
there listening needs to go to
YouTube so they can watch thisyes, go to.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
YouTube, yep.
That way you can see thecorduroy in live action.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
And it's getting
warmer by the second in here so.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
All right so all
right.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
So where are we
starting?
At?
My childhood, how far?
Back.
Do we want to go?
Because I don't want to spend alot of time there.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Well, this is your
show.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You know, jeff Travis
was here a couple weeks ago and
you had to turn it into atwo-parter.
So, my goal is to not turn thisinto a two-parter, that's for
sure.
Let's go three-parter.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Oh man no way.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Um, you know, I grew
up in new Madison, um, the land
of tri village.
I'll be honest, tri villagewasn't tri village.
When I was going there, theythey weren't what they are now.
Um, but I went there.
My parents owned a campgroundso I grew up at a campground.
So all my pastor friends, theyall, they all joke that I'm the
socialist person.
They know because of that.
(08:04):
That campground, you grew up ina campground.
It was a family business.
We all work together.
You're, you know, you're justworking through the week.
My parents owned a publicswimming pool so you'd swim
during the.
On the weekends your friendswould come out like.
I grew up in a great spot, at acampground right outside of New
Madison.
It's called Arrowhead and, man,just one of the best ways you
(08:26):
could grow up and so many goodmemories there.
Um, so I just grew up in smallcommunities.
You know, new Madison was washome for a while.
I ended up transferring to asmall Christian school in high
school and, uh, cause, Iactually thought I wanted to go
in ministry at a young age.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I wanted to go in
ministry at a young age and what
planted that seed?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Man I don't really
know, it just always had that
little pull on me Started goingto church as a kid.
This girl I knew, which Ithought she was cute, right.
So her parents started takingme to church as a kid and man, I
fell in love with church.
I fell in love with God andreally didn't look back much
(09:08):
after that and just alwayswanted to go into ministry.
So, you know, I asked myparents if I could transfer to a
Christian school.
Some of my friends went to thatChristian school in high school
and so I was transferred toFaith Christian.
It was at Faith Baptist Churchin Greenville and I spent my
high school years there andthat's where I met my wife.
(09:28):
So can I tell you a great storyabout how I met my wife?
So we were in class and youknow, when the public schools
kids come to visit the Christianschool, like we're looked at as
we got thrown out of publicschool.
And there's the only place it'lltake you is the Christian
school.
So you know I'm visiting thereand you know, for all they knew
I was, you know, just gotexpelled from a different school
(09:50):
.
So I'm having to be here and II turn around and I look at this
girl behind me and I justlooked at her and I said, man,
you're cute.
You said that out loud, oh yeah, I said it out loud, a hundred
percent.
And she looked at me and shegoes please stop talking to me,
like she's super shy.
And from that point on I waslike well, game on Right, um.
(10:14):
So I pursued her and you knowwe ended up dating.
And so here's how I tell thestory.
And thank goodness my wifeisn't here, but I say we dated
on and off for a couple of yearsand then we got married, had
kids, started some churches,like that's my story.
But the longer that story gets,I'm a huge jerk and uh, but
(10:35):
we'll just keep it at keep it at, we dated on and off you know,
and but she's, she's gold.
But I met her in the 10th grade,9th, 10th grade.
I think we started dating in10th grade, but I met her in 9th
.
Yeah, that's how I met my wife.
She grew up right outside ofthe Greenville area, so small
towns are great for her too, andwe get it right.
(10:57):
If you grew up in small towns,you get small towns.
I just went to the Ohio Stategame last weekend with my son
and sitting in traffic I mean wewere talking earlier I get I
get claustrophobic.
Yeah, just being in a bigcommunity, being a big town, and
why anyone would want to leaveLewisburg or and Sonia or new
Madison or Richmond, like I haveno idea.
(11:19):
Like just plant, plant, staywhere you were planted, man,
it's so much better.
That's my opinion.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
You know, it's funny
that you say that, because I
remember Jeff Travis talkingabout how, when he went to
Lewisburg, they were like whatthe heck is this place?
Oh yeah, you know how small itwas yeah, for sure.
And it's funny to hear thepeople that are raised in a city
or an urban environmentcompared to us being raised out
in the country.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Yeah, because Jeff's
Detroit yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Like they're
terrified to come to the country
, like it's so quiet there wherewe're terrified to go to the
city.
It's just, it's just funny howyou know that, how Absolutely
Similar but different.
You know how we're both scaredof each other.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Jeff asked me.
He said what should I do?
And I said go buy a Menards hat.
Like, lose the skinny jeans, gobuy a Menards hat, it'll help
somewhat, you know, yeah.
Anyways, so you make it throughhigh school.
What's next for you?
Um, you know, make it throughhigh school and then just kind
of go off to to Bible collegeand just trying to follow that
(12:19):
dream there.
And, uh, you know, in thatprocess of time I asked my wife
to marry me.
So we get married.
And, oh man, what if I don'tknow?
We're on this podcast August3rd 2002.
You sure, yeah, I think so.
You know, the passcode to mylife is our anniversary so
(12:44):
pretty sure I don't know if Ishould have said that.
I might want to edit that out,whatever, but yeah, and her and
I Running that credit card now.
Thank you for that.
For sure, I left my wallet overthere, so I'm sure he's got it
Now.
He's got my passcode.
Oh, yeah, yeah, you're introuble.
So I'm sure he's got it Now.
(13:05):
He's got my passcode.
But just, you know, we, we gotout of there and then we jumped
into helping start a church andrule Kentucky and you know a guy
asked me.
He said, hey, you want to comeand help us with youth?
And I was like sure I didn'thave anything else to do.
So Jenny and I got married andthen we moved straight to
Kentucky right after our ourhoneymoon and you know I go to a
(13:27):
church where there's zero youthto help work with their youth.
And that was a trip.
You know, just trying to help achurch get started from the
ground up Changed facilities aton of times.
I remember one time we were inthis facility that it was a
reception hall on Saturday nightand then we had church there on
Sunday morning but they didn'tclean up on Sunday hall on
Saturday night.
And then we had church there onSunday morning but they didn't
(13:47):
clean up on Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Saturday night.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
So we'd get there
early on Sunday mornings just to
clean up.
It smelled like beer, I mean,you could just tell like there
was a party there.
So we're cleaning the thingevery Sunday morning.
So we did that for so long andwe were there for like four
years.
So we, that's that's how I kindof got started doing ministry
and, um, you know, we didn'thave a permanent facility.
(14:11):
So you know, we started meetingat a local YMCA, started
finding some youth and just youknow, hey, what can we do to
introduce young people to Jesus?
You know that, honestly, that'sthat's been my heart from time
time I can remember.
I actually think it's thesecret to life.
Knowing Jesus is huge and Ithink I can be that bold here.
Absolutely so that's really myheart cry.
(14:34):
So you know that was how allthat transpired and I think what
most people and I've told thisstory a lot, because when you
said, hey, I want you to tellyour story, I'm like, dude, I
tell my story all the time.
You know it's just to the COFfamily, so I don't tell it a lot
outside of that.
But really people ask me like,hey, how did COF get started?
(14:55):
Am I getting ahead?
Is this?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
okay, no, you're good
man, yeah Now.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
COF is Community of
Faith.
Yeah, so COF is Community ofFaith.
We started in 07 and reallystarted with six people.
There were six of us that youknow.
Just we felt led that you know,we should start a church.
And what happened was is when Iwas doing youth ministry in
Kentucky because we moved there.
(15:22):
We weren't from there, we werefrom New Madison and Greenville.
So when we were doing youthministry in Kentucky, I was
working at a pizza restauranttoo, and you had to get there
super early to cut, to makedough.
So I'd get there by myselfearly in the morning and I was
just cutting pizza dough overand over and over again.
You make the dough and then youcut it into balls and then it
(15:42):
makes pizza.
So I was just I'd use that timeto pray and I was praying and I
thought, lord, you know, whatdo you have for us?
What do you want Jenny and I todo?
And just something on theinside felt like we were going
to start a church in PrebleCounty and I was like, all right
, so I go, I go home.
That night and I kind of forgotabout it, cause you know the day
(16:03):
got away from me and you know Ikind of thought about it and I
went home and I was like hey,jenny, we didn't have any kids.
I said, hey, jenny, I I don'tknow this is crazy, but cause
she's from dark County and Ilived in dark County too.
So if you're from dark County,you don't think to go to Preble
County.
I don't know why, but somepeople think that if you're from
dark County, that the fair isthe greatest thing on the planet
(16:24):
, which it is amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
I'll give you that.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
But um, so it just
wasn't a thought to go probably
County, dark County, whatever.
And I came home and I told herI said, hey, jenny, uh, I think
we're supposed to start a churchin probably County.
And she kind of just broke downon me.
She's like me too, like it waswithout, it was without
hesitation, you know, um, andthat's kind of been, it's kind
(16:49):
of been her she's, she's support.
I mean it's been a tough roadbut she's been super supportive
over the years but was she so?
Speaker 3 (16:57):
did she hear that
calling too?
Or was she just?
She's just that supportive?
Speaker 4 (17:00):
no I think she heard
it too, like, like um, because
it was.
It was like it was confirmed onher.
On the inside She'd beenfeeling a toll too, but you know
she didn't know what to do withit really.
Or hey, is this, you know?
Is this God?
Is this, is this us?
What are we thinking?
Um?
So at that point we I mean, itwas a quick process we packed up
(17:22):
, sold our house, tried to andmoved to Ohio to try to start a
church.
So here's what's crazy.
We come to, we come to the areaand we thought all right, if
you're going to start a churchin Provo County, where would you
go?
Ben eaten, eaten.
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
So I'm, I'm assuming
it's eaten.
And so, man, there's a churchfor sale and eaten right beside
McDonald's.
And I was like money, this isit, this is the Lord, I know
it's him.
So I called on it and it wasthe church right beside
McDonald's.
If you're from that area, youknow what it is and it was over
a million dollars.
I was like, hey, Lord, you gotsomething wrong here, Like I
don't, because that's out of thebudget and anyway, Lord, you
(18:02):
got something wrong here, Like Idon't, because that's out of
the budget and anyway.
So you know, I didn't hearanything.
I just was like, well, I don't,I don't know what to do.
If that is the building, youknow what's it look like.
And man just continued to pray.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Now hold on one sec.
Yeah, so you decide to leaveKentucky.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
Uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
I assume not much
money in your pocket.
Yeah, I mean, we made a littlebit off of one of our houses,
but not a lot, so you're movingup here just pure faith.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Yeah, I mean now our
family's from here.
So that helped tremendously,knowing that we actually have
family up here.
But yeah, we're just trustingGod.
You know, and here's the thingwe went through a law firm to
get our 501 C three, which tookevery penny Jenny and I had.
So we actually, once we paidfor that, we had zero money and
(18:58):
so we just working trying tofigure it out.
Fear no, we look back and we'relike we didn't have any fear.
I think we were too young anddumb to have fear, or naive I
don't know what the word is butjust no fear.
I didn't know what it wouldlook like.
I mean, what was there to fear?
We were broke anyways, weweren't going to be broke, you
(19:21):
know, it's like what was thereto fear Ever, any doubt?
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Uh like, is this
really what I'm supposed?
Speaker 4 (19:30):
to do God, I think so
.
I mean sure, you, you alwayskind of run that through, but I
don't think I ever stopped to tothink that, hey, this isn't
right, like I just kept goingafter it.
You know you, you just you feelthat on the inside of you and
you just you just got to goafter it.
So we just did what we knew.
I mean, we found a building inLewisburg and really, after
(19:53):
praying it out, I was like, allright, lewisburg's probably the
place.
And uh, and knew a buddy askinghim about a church in Lewisburg
and he's like, yeah, I know onefor sale.
I was like, really, he's like,yeah, actually there's two.
And I said, can I look at them?
So we looked at them onSaturday and, uh, actually, the
original building that I stillpastor that location, that's the
(20:16):
one we started in and it wasrebuilt in 1894.
It was an old United brother inchurch which became a Methodist
church.
And I knew like, hey, this isthe building.
Looked at the other one.
The other one was newer butthis one was man.
It just seemed like it was theright one.
It was right on 503.
(20:39):
Loved the building, still lovethe building, and I remember
trying to talk about a leaseoption, right, cause we had no
money.
When I say we had no money,like dude, we had no money.
And uh, they, they agreed to alease that we could afford, but
it doubled every month until itgot to where it needed to be.
So it was like grow or die,that was the, or find a new
(21:05):
location or something.
And so, you know, we and and itwas a, it was very favorable,
like it was.
I don't remember what the termsof it was, but we get there
real quick and you know, withinthe first year, somebody comes
in and they're like hey, yourboiler's a ticking time bomb,
it's from the forties, it needsto be replaced.
And he goes, what's above theboiler room?
(21:29):
and I was like kids church like,uh, he goes, we might want to
do something about it.
I was like, all right, let's doit.
So I had to go get a loan, hadto go.
Somebody gave us a boiler, abrand new boiler, and but to
install it was 10 grand, whichat the time, man I mean.
So I went to a banker and I waslike, hey, man, we need, I
(21:51):
gotta have this, or we don'thave church.
And it was awful.
I didn't want to borrow moneyfor a boiler, but we needed a
boiler.
So it's just those early days,man, and I was working, uh, my
father-in-law, he doesconstruction.
Um, I'll have to shout out hisbusiness, trojan builders,
greenville, ohio.
Uh, he does, he does guttersand siding and windows.
(22:14):
He'd let me work whenever.
Another friend of mine, uh,gabe, he owns GMT roofing in
Greenville, he'd let me putroofs on, like I could just show
up and log hours whenever Icould and I'd have to go do a
funeral and then I'd come backand I'd get on the roof or just
whatever.
And, man, I thought this wouldjust be life, like that's what
it would be, and the church justkind of kept growing and I
(22:37):
don't know how many gaps youwant me to fill in between now
and where we're at today.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
No, yeah, like, why
do you?
What caused it to grow?
Speaker 4 (22:51):
You know, I I
honestly people ask me that all
the time, Like it's if you gointo a business and it's failing
, I mean, let's look atBlockbuster, right?
Am I allowed to say that onhere?
I?
Speaker 1 (22:56):
don't know.
I just crossed the line, butyou look at Blockbuster and
you're like the line.
Speaker 4 (23:02):
But you look at
Blockbuster and you're like it's
easy to see why they failed soeasy.
But why did Netflix thrive?
They about went bankrupt two orthree times.
It's hard to put your finger onwhy things actually grow.
But I just know this we justkept trying to reach the one
(23:24):
person, kept trying to reach thelost.
You know how quick can we getinvolved in the school?
I mean, I was coachingbasketball year two.
I was coaching they had anopening for junior high girls
basketball and I was like, yeah,let's go.
Sure man, some of the funnesttimes coaching there at the
(23:46):
school.
And today I still am involvedin the school.
I announced all the varsitygames, I announced football, I
announced basketball.
I love being involved in theschool and now my kids are, you
know, a little bit older.
So we got to do all the parentthings and the concession stands
and you know.
But just getting involved inthe school, that was, you know,
a huge, huge part of it.
And I think just reaching,trying to reach young people
(24:09):
from from the get go, just doingour best with what we had.
I think you can look back fromthe early days until now.
We just did everything to thebest of our ability with the
resources we had, and it's kindof the same that we're still
trying to do.
We try to do things to the bestof our ability with the
resources we had and it's kindof the same that we're still
trying to do.
We try to do things to the bestof our ability with the
resources we have.
But really, just man, I justwanted to reach Lewisburg.
(24:33):
I had people ask me all thetime did you set out to have
multi campuses?
And no, I mean honestly, I justwanted.
I just wanted to reach the townany way we could help out, any
way we could be involved in thecommunity any way we could.
And I think that's really why myheart is so focused on small
(24:53):
communities.
Rural communities is becauseyou have that ability, you can
get involved.
I remember going to chambermeetings where there were only
four of us and I was one of thefour in Lewisburg and we would
sit around and talk about howcan we make Lewisburg better?
And you can't always get that.
We have amazing.
We have a village manager inLewisburg.
(25:15):
He's amazing, like if I was ina big town.
I'm not going to go toIndianapolis, I don't even know
if they have village managers.
I mean, do you guys know?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I have no managers.
I mean, do you guys know thequestions?
Well, Indianapolis is not avillage.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Well, that's true.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
I came from a village
in New Lebanon, so I know what
you're talking about.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Yeah, it's like does
Dan just try to make?
Speaker 3 (25:34):
guests feel stupid.
Is that what he does?
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Because he totally
did right now.
It's my whole life.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
I take it back.
Speaker 4 (25:38):
No, no, no.
Actually I kind of walked rightinto that one.
So that's totally.
I wasn't going to say it, butGod told me Wow, that's great
man.
Um no, I hear myself.
Oh no.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
I can tell you why it
grew.
Okay, it's because of you.
I don't know about that.
No, it's because of thatleadership.
I mean, I, we didn't know eachother right before this and we
just had lunch together and kindof got to know each other.
But there's certain people youcan feel certain things from.
You can feel I don't know whatit is, maybe it's the Holy
(26:20):
spirit, I don't.
I don't know what it is.
You just have that feeling,that aura, that like.
I don't know what it's going totake.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
You just combined
like the whole Christianity with
like the new age world withaura and the Holy.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Spirit.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Like, let's try to
pick one here.
Dan, he redeemed himself.
Let's go.
Holy Spirit here, can we dothat?
Not aura?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Hey, thanks for
listening everyone.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Oh man, you guys are
great.
This is actually really fun.
This is terrible.
No, I'm trying to complimentyou, I get it.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
I make jokes when I'm
uncomfortable so deal with that
all right?
Speaker 3 (26:57):
No, but what I'm
saying is that there's certain
people that have certainleadership qualities that they
may not even know, and it's just.
It's just the simple thingslike helping that one person,
like that's our, that's ourwhole mission with.
Be Tempered is for your storyto reach one person, to do
something, to help someone else.
(27:19):
And you completely relied onfaith yeah, to move from
Kentucky you're making pizzas togo to Lewisburg, ohio, with $0
in your pocket, then a $10,000boiler that you had to go get a
loan for.
But what'd you do?
(27:39):
You got embedded in thecommunity.
You started getting involved.
Well, what happens?
And people start to know you,they start to feel that aura,
that presence, like, hey, I wantto get to know this guy a
little better, so maybe I'mgoing to go to his church.
Then you start preaching, right, then they get to know you even
more.
It's your vulnerability, it'syour leadership.
That's why it took off.
(28:01):
But my question is, knowingwhere you're at now, with all
those different campuses, how doyou go from one to two to three
?
Talk about that process,because there's a business side
to this.
Right, there is a business side.
Whether you want it to be ornot, there is, and you know I'm
(28:21):
a businessman and we've had wejust had the conversation an
hour or so ago, you know, atlunch about growth is hard right
and finding the right people isthe key to all of it.
So how did you go from $0 togrowing your church in Lewisburg
to then going to that secondcampus?
That had to have been a bigstep.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Yeah.
So I want to.
I want to clarify $0, becausethere is a really cool story in
this is that, uh, you know, Idon't know that everybody
believed in us when we said wewere going to start a church in
Lewisburg.
Most of the time people werelike why, like you know, they
have enough churches and youknow, and I love, I love the
(29:03):
churches in the community.
But it was just people didn'tunderstand.
My wife supported me, my momsupported me and my grandma like
they were all like honey, youcan do it with that, it's kind
of they kind of have to.
Like everybody else was justpitying me.
(29:24):
I could tell you know, but mygrandma, early on, my grandma
never, never made a lot of moneyand if she's listening, you're
amazing.
Grandma Wiggins, she's in her80s now.
I remember we told her we weregoing to start a church just
like a year prior, because therewas about a year gap before we
knew and when we opened thedoors, she just started saving
(29:46):
money.
She started saving money andshe gave us like $3,000 to start
and she had saved for a wholeyear and I couldn't believe it.
I mean, it helped us get on theright track.
So you know, we could say $0and obviously it didn't go real
far.
But the fact that she did thatI'll never, ever forget that my
(30:11):
grandma Wiggin, like she's putmoney aside and she gave what
she had, and man, what ablessing Right.
So a big shout out to GrandmaWiggin.
She, if you're listening, Idon't know, she knows technology
more than me.
You know, I think she's onFacebook more than she's one of
our YouTube subscribers.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
She's one of your
YouTube subscribers but just
really sweet.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
So I'm, you know, I
don't forget that but going from
that man.
There's just so many littleside stories along the way
getting established and you know, is this real?
Should we be doing this andhonestly getting back?
Like you say, it's me?
But oh my goodness, I look backand I was like, yeah, but I
(30:55):
just it's Jesus.
I want to point to that If Ihave anything that's good in me,
it's from him.
If I have any quality that isawesome, it's from him, like I
didn't manufacture this on myown.
The fact that I'm a betterbasketball player than Ben Spahr
that was from the Lord Like no,I'm definitely not a not a
(31:17):
better basketball player thananybody else there but the, the,
anything that we have good inus, it's, it's from the Lord.
So if I have any leadership inme, it's from the Lord.
So here's what I did know isthat we started, we started
growing a little bit early onand what I realized is I knew
(31:38):
nothing about leadership, Never.
I mean whatever just isorganically that you get from
growing up at a campground.
Growing up, I had a loving mom,I had a driven dad, Love them
both.
But whatever I got, justnaturally from growing up in the
environment.
I grew up and it was myleadership ability.
So I knew, man, I had to diginto leadership.
(31:59):
So I took the better part of adecade where I read every book,
went to conferences, listened toaudio CDs on leadership back in
the day like whatever I couldget my hands on.
And I did that for the betterpart of a decade because I
didn't.
I didn't know how, and then oneof the first people, um, so
(32:19):
when I first moved to KentuckyI'm going to go back a little
bit when I first moved toKentucky, I got hired on at
office Depot.
They were opening up a newstore and I needed a job.
So I went to Office Depot andthis guy, Keith Peterson.
He interviewed me, he hired me.
Man, we become really goodfriends, Great guy.
(32:40):
So he ended up leaving thatstore and he took another store
in Lexington, Kentucky, and Iended up going to a pizza place.
Well, I call him and I'm likehey man, I think we're moving
from Kentucky and Kentucky.
People are like crazy, theylove Kentucky basketball, they,
I mean, they love Kentucky, theydo not go to Ohio.
(33:00):
And um, so I told him, I saidhey man, I think we're gonna go
start a church in Preble County,Ohio, and he comes with us.
He, up through his family, theytransferred him from the
Lexington office Depot and theygave him the Trotwood Ohio
Office Depot.
Same thing, yeah, Like totallysame thing, Same, same same
(33:22):
thing, Same same everything.
But, yeah, he, he came up andhe, he helped.
And so you talk about thebusiness side like he.
He understood that so muchbetter than me.
I had no idea really.
And so, as the church has grownlike he was the guy to work in
three jobs helping.
(33:44):
I mean, I remember one time wewere joking about his answering
machine.
He had like two differentphones cause he was selling
truckloads of merchandise towholesalers.
He had a car lot.
He was working for a companypart-time and he was at the
church.
He was leading worship andrunning all the business side of
the church.
And he just moved up here andsaid I'm in Uprooted.
(34:07):
His whole family and his wifeworked for us for a while.
His son pastors are Arcanumchurch now and his other son's a
professional musician inNashville he's.
So him coming was huge and he'salways been.
You know, I I say that I'm thegas pedal, he's the brake pedal.
(34:28):
It's really nice when you havesomebody that will put the
brakes on, and he's he's beenreally good at that.
Over the years he's helped metremendously to make wise
decisions.
So, going from one campus to two, we grew, um, we were in two
services, Then we went to threeservices in Lewisburg and then
it's like, all right, what do wedo?
Um, I was like, well, let'sbuild a big building right on
(34:52):
the interstate.
That was my only thought.
It was my only solution, youknow, and something about it
didn't feel right, but I didn't.
We didn't know what else to do.
So I remember we, we were we'dpartner with the Pueblo County
YMCA for different things andthey had a church partner there
for several years and theirchurch partner was leaving and I
(35:15):
remember having a conversationat the time the Y director there
, his name was Josh Haynes Gooddude, man, Great dude and he had
a conversation and was justlike hey, you ever think about
COF being our church partner,Thinking we would just move
everything to Eden and withoutthinking like that'd be awesome,
let's do it.
So Keith kind of comes in.
(35:40):
He's like I don't know if we'reready for that right now, Like
you know.
And eventually we were ready andby the time the other church
went out and we started, youknow, building, building
excitement around it, we hadseveral families coming from
Eaton to Lewisburg and we askall them hey, do you want to do,
(36:01):
you want to help start a newchurch in Eaton?
And they're like where's itgoing to be?
We're like at the YMCA, we'regoing to set it up and tear it
down every week.
And people were just like, yeah, we're in, let's do it, let's
reach Eaton too.
And that's really what started.
That started something differenton the inside of me, Like a big
building with one big churchnever felt, just didn't feel
(36:24):
right.
I felt like the real Lord wasreally like hey, don't have
people leave their community tocome to your church, take the
church to the community.
And I'm like, all right, Idon't even know what that means,
I don't know what that lookslike, I don't know how to do
that, Still don't you know?
Um, but yeah, that's, that's,that's what happened.
(36:45):
That's how we kind of went fromone to two and uh, so there was
some big factors that happened.
Jeff came along right at thattime.
He did a podcast with him, JeffTravis pretty clear that he was
going to be the pastor of thatchurch.
He only wanted to commit tothree years because he's a
missionary by heart and hestayed for seven.
So you know, I milked a littlemore than he wanted to, but it
(37:08):
worked out well.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
So I want to stop you
for a second because a second,
because that's another key pieceAgain, the conversation that we
had earlier at lunch.
How do you go and you find theright person?
Because the most critical piece, or one of the most critical
pieces to any church is thepastor.
So how do you, how do you goand look for the right person?
Speaker 4 (37:34):
Well, you know,
there's always been the talk of
hey, do you put me on a screen,do we just live stream me into
every campus?
And man, that's never feltright for us.
Now there's people who do it.
I don't, I don't care how youdo it, for us it just didn't
feel right.
I met Jeff at a conference andI was like, hey, what do you do
and why do you do it in Troy,michigan?
I like Jeff you know he's gooddude and he's like uh, travel
(38:00):
and speak to youth groups and Ilive here because this is where
I'm from I was like, all right,you should move to Ohio.
That was it.
I just kind of planted that andleft and you know he ended up
moving to Ohio.
I leave a lot of details out.
It really annoys my wife.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Jeff.
Jeff filled those in.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
Yeah, I know, I know
my wife, you know somebody will
tell me it's my, I have a baby.
I'll be like hey, been spar,they had a baby.
And she's like, oh, what'd theyname it?
Like, listen, I've given youall the information.
I know she wants to know why,or she wants to know eye color,
weight, height, the whole thing,and I'm like honey, I have no
idea.
So I leave a lot of details outand I'm I'm okay with that If
(38:37):
you, jeff.
Jeff felt a ball head right.
So he ended up moving here andit was.
It was pretty clear.
But then there was somebodycoming to the Lewisburg campus.
That was just a mate and Icould list people from the early
days.
I had an early person whohelped us out administratively.
Her name was Jennifer Johnson.
She's a huge help to us.
But there was this girl comingand this family coming, dave and
(39:00):
Carrie Ann Helvey and I'll behonest, you guys are from the
Eaton community.
Dave and Carrie Ann just in mybrain they're two of my favorite
people, love them.
In my brain they're two of myfavorite people, love them.
And she like process admin.
She's why that Eaton church,like the ball, didn't get
dropped over there.
She just took up the mantle andran with it and I remember
(39:24):
she'd work all night at Channel7 because she's a meteorologist.
Check this out.
She might hear this and mightnot, but she started first,
started working for me and Iintroduced her as uh, she used
to be the weather girl.
Oh man, like she.
In the mid conversation shejust smiled and said
meteorologist, and I was like Iwas like, uh, carrie Ann is
(39:48):
never the weather girl.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
She is a
meteorologist and she has
degrees to prove it Right.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
So I've just kind of
laughed at that.
So I learned real quick Don'tever call her the weather girl.
If you're listening to this andyou see her, by all means feel
free to call her weather girl,we'll see her at football games,
yeah.
But you know, she was just sucha huge help.
She'd work all night at Channel7 because there'd be a storm or
something and then she'd get tothat campus at like 6.30 in the
(40:15):
morning and she'd make surethat it was running.
Every I was dotted, t wascrossed and it came time to we
needed another hire and thefirst place I went looking was
Carrie Ann and some of you don'tknow this, like Dave, helvey is
one of the best vocals andmusicians I've ever encountered.
I mean the guy when he sings andplays.
It's amazing, one of myfavorites.
(40:39):
And then his wife, carrie Ann.
I mean, just, she's a processmachine.
Sometimes I think she's justtrying to find new ways that we
can be better.
That drives me crazy.
But you've got to have peoplelike that on your team and she's
super valuable.
But, yeah, we brought her onright around that second campus
before we launched a third andshe played a huge role in
(41:02):
getting the third campus off theground.
And yeah, just like you said,great people coming around man.
Sometimes I look around and Ijust think we have better people
than than I deserve.
And he's brought some reallygood people along the way.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
So you just do a
really good job of listening to
the Lord, right.
Listen, I don't know, man, Ihope I want to you have to to
take, to take those steps to togo from $3,000 from your grandma
.
Which is amazing, to get a loanfor $10,000 to fix a boiler.
That's getting ready to blowwith the kids up above To the
(41:40):
next campus, to the next campus,to the next campus.
And now you've got how manytotal.
There's five, five total.
You're getting ready to build abuilding in Eaton.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Yeah, they broke
ground, so they're doing the
footer.
Actually this week I saw therewas some dirt getting moved.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
You have to listen,
like you have to listen.
That's one thing.
That's a big thing that Istruggle with.
That's why I say that, becausethere's a lot of similarities
between the Community FaithChurch and where we're at with
this podcast.
I mean, as you're talking likeI'm feeling what you felt early
on with this Sure, and one thingI'm trying to do and I think
(42:18):
Ben is too is we're just tryingto listen to what God wants us
to do, and that's really hardfor me.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Man, it really is,
because I just I mean honestly.
So when you read throughout theBible and first of all,
sometimes I'm like, hey, why isBen here?
He doesn't even talk.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
I mean, Ben, can you
interject something here?
That would be great.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
I sit here and
process the whole time.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
I do have stuff, I'm
just thinking All right, he
comes in.
At the end I come in so quiet,poor Ben you know Dan's a
communication major from Dayton.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
Oh wow, I am a
diploma major from Dixie.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Okay, that's, I'm
proud of you.
Thank you, and you hit the game, winning shot.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Layup.
Speaker 4 (43:01):
He hit a game winning
layup one time, one time In his
career.
That's amazing.
Yeah, you know, here you hope,hope.
I just want so.
To me, quick obedience is huge.
So there was a time where Godlooked at law and he's like go
to the land that I'll show you.
Now I'm sure there's a lot thathappened to between that right
Like because, but but really,soon after that, we just see,
(43:24):
lot goes.
You know, god asked Abraham totake his son up, isaac, isaac,
and sacrifice him.
It's like the next verse he'sloading up a donkey and it's
like whoa, whoa, what, like?
What did you go through?
What was the thought process?
Like, I want some more there,but I really do.
(43:46):
I want to be obedient, like,whatever it is the Lord wants me
to do, whether he wants me tolay down COF one day, so be it.
Like if he's got something elsein store for me, it's his, not
mine.
So I don't want to and I'vestruggled with that over the
years, but it's his.
Whatever he wants to do, I'mgood with and it's just kind of
(44:10):
doing that.
And I've made mistakes.
I'm I'm sure you're going tomake more mistakes with this
podcast than anything you do,but you, you do your best to man
, just make up for the mistakeand you just got to keep moving
forward.
So, man, I really do.
I want to be obedient to God.
I really want to hear his voice.
I want to.
I want to honor him.
(44:36):
I want to live a life that'sworthy and that glorifies him.
I want to.
I want to not apologize foranything and we were talking
about this at lunch, like I lovethe word.
It's truth.
It's the only place that we'regoing to find truth in a culture
that is so messed up, confused,divided.
I want that to be glorified.
I want his word, I want the sonof God, I want Jesus to be
lifted up, like so I just wantto do my part.
You know, there's a point thatwe're all going to get to and I
(44:58):
want to hear well done, good andfaithful, like that's it.
I don't want to hear nothingelse.
I just want to know that I didmy part, no matter how small or
how big, because honestly, Idon't think there is small and
big.
There's just obedience.
That's all there is.
(45:20):
So Stephen was they got stoned,the first martyr of the New
Testament church.
He was just as obedient asMoses leading the children out
of slavery in Egypt.
Like I just want that, thatsimple obedience, and I try to
make everything simple.
I do not have an engineer'sbrain, I don't have a complex
brain.
Everything to me is supersimple.
So if it's the right thing todo, let's do it, and if we miss
(45:42):
it or we mess up or it wasn'tright, let's go back and do our
best to make up for it and thenmove ahead again.
So you say that and I'm justlike man, I don't know, I'm
still trying to figure this out,but I do believe that shift
happened to me at some pointwhere it was like, hey, all
these counties that everybodyelse is overlooking, all these
(46:03):
rural towns that nobody else isgoing into.
You know, I go to conferences.
I meet pastors all over theplace.
They talk about their cities.
I've heard of it.
You know I go to conferences.
I meet pastors all over theplace.
They talk about their cities.
I've heard of it.
You know, charlotte, boston,memphis, nashville, you name it.
And I'm like Lewisburg.
I'm like, oh, where's that at?
I'm like, if I tell you, areyou going to care?
Like, do you even know?
(46:24):
And people have never heard ofthem.
You know, people never heard ofthose towns, but I do know that
God sees each and every one ofthose communities, and so that's
what I can't even go onvacation Like.
When I go on vacation, I drivethrough these rural communities
because we don't take a lot ofinterstates.
My wife likes to take backroads to Florida, so we'll do
that a lot.
I drive through these littletowns and I just I'm looking for
(46:46):
buildings, like, man, is therea church here?
Is there a presence here?
Is there something here?
Because those little towns, man, they matter so much to me and
I know they matter to God, and Iknow that people are called to
Columbus, cincinnati,indianapolis, all those towns
too, and that's great.
But, man, for us it's theserural communities and like, is
(47:07):
there a need?
If there's a need, let's go you.
And like, is there a need?
If there's a need, let's go.
You know, and we want to hearfrom God and if the Lord lays
that town on our heart, thenwe're going to do our best to
get there.
Speaker 3 (47:16):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Well, I want to.
I want to ask you a question.
I want to get your opinion onit.
I've got a good friend.
I told you the corduroy storybefore in Dallas, texas, and him
and his wife have been goingfrom church to church just
trying to find the right feel.
And he said you know,everywhere we go, I feel like
(47:37):
instead of them preaching thegospel, reading from the Bible,
I feel like they're trying tosell us their church.
So how do you not do that atthe community of faith?
How do you not try to sell yourchurch to someone?
Speaker 4 (47:54):
You know I would say
it's tough because we do talk
about, I mean, like I'm nottrying to sell it, but I'm so
excited about what we're doing.
I'm excited that, you know,last night we had one of the
largest baptism days that we'veever seen at Community of Faith.
So I'm not saying that to sellyou the church, but I'm excited
(48:18):
about it.
So I think people talk aboutwhat you're excited about what
you're doing.
So you know I'm I'm quick togive a lot of grace to other
other churches because they dothings different, but I think
the truth of it is there, has to.
We have to make sure that thechurch isn't Jesus is being
(48:38):
glorified, that truth isn'tderiving from opinions but truth
is deriving from the word ofGod and making sure that those
are staples when, when you'reout looking for a church and and
also, you know I, I kinda I'mon the other side of it, right,
I'm not shopping for a church.
You know I I'm kind ofresponsible for churches.
(49:00):
So would you say your buddy's aChristian, yes, yeah.
So so also going into thesechurches with a different
mindset of going, a lot ofpeople are professional church
goers and they go in and they'relike, hey, what's this church
have to offer my family?
And they go in and they're like, hey, what's this church have
to offer my family?
Which is fine, like I'm notagainst that, but at some point
(49:22):
go in and go.
Man, how can I be a blessing tothis community, like, find a
church that could utilize yourfamily, that could utilize your
gifts.
But so many people are like,hey, what can this church do for
me?
What can, how can they?
And that's that's fine.
But I love the shift in themindset of what can I do to be a
(49:46):
blessing here?
You know, how can, how can I bean encouragement in this
community?
Because I think there's greatchurches all over the place that
that you know.
If families would come in anddig in and help out, like it's
just such a huge blessing tothat church.
So I would say, you know, ifit's heavy on selling the church
(50:07):
, be cautious, right.
But if it's, if they'rehighlighting and they're excited
about what they're doing, ifthey're not excited about what
they're doing, I wouldn't wantto go there either, right.
So there's a weird balancebetween the two.
But at the same time, man, isit a motivation?
I don't want a motivationalmessage, I don't want somebody's
opinion.
That's why I love you know,especially at my campus, I love
(50:32):
people to bring their Bible,like, bring it, I want you to
know your Bible.
There's things I think we shoulddo every day.
I think we should do every day.
I think we should pray everyday.
I think we should be in ourBible every day.
I think we should learn everyday.
You know, I think that there'sjust things that we should think
every day.
But better than any book I meanI've read 10 books this year the
best book is still the Bible.
It's the only one that gives melife.
(50:52):
It's the only one that bringslife change to me.
It's the only one where there'sabsolute truth and I believe
that.
So the best discipleship toolwe have is the Bible.
Like we better be pushing ourpeople there.
So be sure that we are makingthe Bible the thing, the
priority, and that Jesus isbeing glorified more than
anything else.
(51:14):
I can't bring life change.
Cof can't bring life change.
But, man, if we can be aconduit to help connect people
to Jesus, man, that's my heart,that's what I want for all these
communities.
So that's just.
You know it's.
I'm trying to be honest aboutyour buddy.
I'm like, hey, man, try to lookat a little bit different too
and just go into it going, hey,what can we do?
(51:38):
What can we do to be a blessingto this community, to this
church, to these people?
Yeah, I mean, he gave us allgifts to to actually bless other
people.
So what can we do?
And I think a lot of we're justprofessional Christians in the
American culture and I don't, Idon't love that, I'm not a big
fan of professional Christianity, like I want to just be a
(51:59):
servant.
Find a need.
You want to be more like Jesus.
He came to serve.
So look for those needs in yourcommunity.
Speaker 1 (52:07):
But I also feel like
that's why community of faith
grows right, Because isn't thatthe heart of everything is
community.
Speaker 4 (52:12):
Well, maybe I sit
here and I'm like I hate
agreeing.
Just be like, yeah, that's whycommunity of faith is awesome.
But yeah, I'm just saying rightLike Arcanum.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
I didn't even how
many people did you guys baptize
?
Speaker 4 (52:24):
79 last night.
I didn't even realize there was79 people in Arcanum, right
yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
I mean I did, but you
know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (52:29):
There's like 1500
people in Arcanum, right, that's
the third one, yep, andactually we started it on a
Sunday night.
I would do three services inLewisburg on Sunday morning and
then we would all drive over toArcanum on Sunday night and we
would do Sunday night.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
And it's just, I
don't know, like the blueprint
of community of faith.
It seems like is, you know,preach the Bible, bible-based
everything, scripture-based, thetruth, the living word, and
then after that it's community,like the truth, the living word,
and then after that it'scommunity Like that's what the
heart of it is and that's why itgrows and baptisms.
But I feel like that's what youknow professional Christianity,
like you're talking about, butthat's where those all kind of
(53:07):
missed the mark and everything,cause you don't have that
community.
You don't have, you know,seeing your neighbor at the
grocery store and you're servingwith them all the time.
Or you know serving your actualcommunity, like having pride in
your community.
If you have pride in yourcommunity, it's going to change
your morals of the community.
It's going to change everything.
Like you said it's huge, so Iget the heart of the community,
what you're talking about andseeing every and getting people
(53:29):
involved, just like you, youknow you went and coached middle
school basketball.
Speaker 4 (53:34):
Look at this.
I love it, ben, I'm done.
Yeah, no, no, no.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Just kidding.
Speaker 4 (53:41):
Yeah, but where's the
needs?
Like, if it's girls basketball,you got a coach, then do it.
If it's something else.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
And you know what's
crazy this day and age is like?
It seems like not many peoplewant to get involved.
It seems like, like thesevolunteer organizations, even at
the churches, I mean, it's hardto find people because
everybody's so busy.
But where's the priorities inlife?
Speaker 4 (54:05):
Man, I, that's a drum
that I beat a lot Like if you
don't have time to volunteer orto be able and I'm not saying at
the church, just in general inyour community, and like let's
rework our life, just in generalin your community.
And like let's rework our life.
You know, I've had, I've got ason who's a pretty good athlete,
you know, and but travel stuffwasn't an option because I can't
(54:29):
be gone every Sunday.
Like it just wasn't an option.
And I'm not against anybodydoing anything, they think, but
let's have downtime.
How do you ever have time tothink?
You know how many marriages Isee fall apart after the kids
are gone Because it was the onlything holding them together.
Let's put some margin in ourlife.
(54:50):
Let's take time to breathe.
I was preaching yesterday.
I love so many times we see theBible where Jesus was taking a
nap.
Nobody has time to take a napanymore.
Find some rhythms in life and Idon't know how awesome it is
(55:11):
that we run ourselves to deathand it's all good things, but
are they right, like I think weshould at least step back and
question is my rhythm of lifeRight?
Am I running at a pace that'ssustainable?
Do my kids know to break andtake a break from their phone,
take a break from sports andjust think and read and go
(55:35):
outside.
I mean we need to be.
I mean I got so many thoughts.
We need to spend more timeoutside.
Speaker 3 (55:42):
Well, I can tell you,
I mean just yesterday, so I
helped coach my youngest son'sflag football team.
Yeah, and one of the young kidson our team, he's in soccer
right now, he's in flag footballright now and he's also playing
baseball.
This is a 10 year old littlekid.
Like when does he have time tobe a kid?
(56:02):
I could tell he was exhausted.
When does he have time to be akid?
When do the parents have timeto spend time with each other
husband and wife?
And and we've we've done enoughof these podcasts and we've
interviewed enough people toknow that a lot of times when
that falls out of balance andthen the family gets divorced,
(56:22):
parents get divorced.
That is the biggest turningpoint in a lot of these kids
lives as they get older is when,when mom and dad get a divorce.
Speaker 4 (56:30):
A hundred percent.
We can say kids are resilientand they are to an extent.
But it has a long-term effect.
It does.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (56:39):
I, I, we, I talk to
young adults all the time.
I got several that work for meand, um man, the young adults
that that stuff seared into thebrain about what was made a
priority, what they did, howyoung they were, given a phone
or a device and stuff's foreignforms them, oftentimes in a
negative way.
I just think we should beconscious of it, like let's at
(57:00):
least step back and go.
Are these rhythms of life right?
But nobody wants to step backand address it.
I think we should if you'relistening Because it's too busy
Too busy yeah.
And if they slow down, theymight have to deal with issues.
That's right, oh man, yeah,that's it.
The quiet's scary man?
Yeah, but it needs to beaddressed.
Speaker 3 (57:20):
So let me ask you
another question.
This is something I always liketo ask pastors, because you
hear a lot.
People come to you a lot withissues, right?
With things going on in theirlives and, quite honestly, we
get a lot of it now, sure,absolutely.
You know, once we open the doorand we start having these
(57:40):
conversations, then people wantto come and tell you their story
, which I love.
Speaker 4 (57:44):
I mean that's why.
Speaker 3 (57:45):
That's why we're
doing it, because I can see that
it helps people right.
Same thing for you.
How do you deal with thatmentally when you hear all these
stories and you're trying tolisten uh, listen to give advice
?
There's some hard things thatyou have heard in your life, I'm
sure.
Speaker 4 (58:03):
Sure, how do you hear
about, I mean hard things.
You got to navigate because youI mean, if you lose a best
friend, you go to their funeral.
If I lose a best friend, I dotheir funeral, like.
So it's not only navigating thethings that I hear, but just
navigating the everyday stuffbecause I'm still dad.
When I go home, my kids don'tknow what kind of day I've had,
(58:25):
like my wife doesn't know whatkind of day I had.
Um, I think the way I deal withit is I've got some good wisdom
along the way learning to takedowntime, learning to be away,
but also, uh, I was talking toan older guy one time and he
told me he said, find a tree.
So before you go into yourhouse, leave all your worries on
(58:47):
that tree.
So do you pick them back upwhen you leave the next morning?
He said, but you got to find away to leave that stuff.
So whether it's, you know yourdrive home or I mean the tree.
We're not going all you knowtree loving stuff here, like the
aura that you tried to earlierbut he literally said just grab
a leaf, he said, and just putyour worries on it and it's easy
(59:11):
to say.
It's really hard to live, butI've learned that I got to be
able to, to an extent, shut thatoff.
My wife would say there'sseasons I go through, I'm
probably bad at it, but thenthere's seasons I go through
where I'll turn my phone off atnight and she's like then they
call me.
But I've just tried to bepresent.
(59:32):
I hear so many people talkabout you gotta have balance and
I have found that balance isreally weird.
It's impossible.
It's so.
When I'm at work, I'm a hundredpercent.
I'm there.
My wife and I don't text muchthroughout the day unless you
know hey, you're picking cami upat this time.
I guess just that, but we don't.
(59:53):
We don't talk on the phone muchbecause I'm a hundred percent
there with the people.
I work with what we're doingthere at work.
But when I'm home, I try to be100% there.
I don't try to balance the two.
I try to give all my energy towhat I'm doing at the time.
It's just like coming to thispodcast.
You guys said the same thing.
We all left our phones out ofhere and we're not that
important that we can't takewhat hopefully an hour,
(01:00:13):
hopefully an hour Like I don'teven know how long it's been?
Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Well, it was three
hours already.
Oh my God, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
You're in an hour.
You're in the part two, Jeffright.
Speaker 1 (01:00:23):
Um so.
Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
But we got, you can
take time, you can take downtime
and slow down, and I, I, I justfound that that's a good rhythm
for me.
You know, I think my naturalstate is to stay up late, get up
super late.
You can't live that way and bereally well.
So I've just learned man, go tobed at a decent time, get up
early and spend time with God,spend some alone time, quiet,
(01:00:52):
spend some time reading, and itjust, it just makes the day
better.
I can navigate better that way.
But I hear some.
I wish I could just do apodcast where I told you the
stuff I've heard over the years.
They're crazy.
From the back door of a churchto in my office, I've heard,
I've heard things that I'm justlike is this real and it is.
I mean, life's messy with peopleand what's crazy is nobody
(01:01:14):
wants to talk about it until ithits them square in the face,
you know.
And when their relationshipgets wrecked, they want to talk.
When their job gets wrecked,they want to talk.
And when their finances getwrecked, they want to talk.
But other than that, they justwant to go through life as quick
as they can with their headdown.
It's like, no, we can't do that.
We actually have to addresssome things.
So that's what you know I tryto do.
(01:01:44):
I try to take time and addresssome stuff, and I go through
seasons where I'm probably moreunhealthy than I should be, um,
and I and my wife is real quickto tell me hey, your brain's
going to break, you need to slowdown, you need to chill out,
you need to calm down, and I'mthankful for that.
It's good.
Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
She says it's time to
do 75 hard.
Speaker 4 (01:01:55):
No, she'll never say
that.
Because I'm too tired, like Ihave a little less energy.
And, man, when I'm on 75 hard,those two workouts they get you,
and then you go to the bathrooma hundred times a day.
Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
How do you feel right
?
Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
now I feel good, I'm
good, I haven't had anything to
drink for you know no, I'm good.
Then I'd have to measure thatLike I drink four 32 ounce
bottles a day, so I'd try not todrink anything else, anyways.
Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
Yeah, no, it's
impressive.
We talked about 75 heart.
Obviously, I wore the shirt foryou?
Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
Yeah, you did.
Thank you and I.
Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
I know, you know we
we've talked about Andy for
Sella and we Andy's you got tokind of take with a grain of
salt, right, Right, Hiscommunication style is a little
in your face.
Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
But the program I
think for me was was like I mean
, it's, it's the reason thatwe're doing this podcast, it's
the reason my life changed threeyears ago, and so you know,
knowing that you have done itmultiple times, talk a little
bit about what the first timelike why did you start 75 hard?
(01:03:01):
Because it's not an easy thing.
Speaker 4 (01:03:02):
No, it's not.
And I think I just got to apoint where I just live in this
perpetual cycle of up 50 pounds,down 50 pounds.
Up 50 pounds, down 50 pounds,like it's terrible.
And uh, so I came across 75hard somehow.
I asked a handful of people todo it with me and we did it.
(01:03:22):
And uh, you know, I I neededthat.
I could tell it was just gettinga little unhealthy.
I have a pretty unhealthy jobif I'm not careful, like sit
around, talk, have meetings, youknow, study, eat, like you have
lunch every day with somebodyif you're not careful.
So it's just a bunch of that.
And man, just probably gettingto a point where I wasn't very
(01:03:43):
healthy and just was like man, Iwant to change.
And somehow I got a hold of 75hard.
I don't even know how.
Somebody probably told me aboutit, but I don't even remember
who.
So I researched it for a minuteand then you hear Andy, his
mouth is terrible, but I waslike I like the concept, um, and
I like structure, I likediscipline, I like I loved
(01:04:04):
practices in high school and youknow where they.
You got to run a lot and yougot to work.
I just always loved that.
So it was a challenge and Ithought all right, I can do it.
Well, ended up, I did, you know,75 hard.
I did phase one, phase two,phase three and man, just a
great experience.
I still hate the water the most.
I'll take a cold shower.
Over a gallon of water a day,all day.
(01:04:25):
Why the water?
Just because you can't getbehind on it.
I can stay up late and do twoworkouts If you have to hammer
three-quarters of a gallon after7 pm your whole night.
Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Yeah, you're not
sleeping.
Speaker 4 (01:04:37):
You're not sleeping,
so the water gets me them.
I love the reading, I this.
The water gets me.
So drinking a gallon a day, man, it just wears me out.
So I try to get a half gallonin before noon and then I'll get
another quarter gallon inbefore I leave work and then I,
the night, at dinner, I'll drinkmy last quarter gallon.
So, anyways, um, but I did itjust because it sounded good and
(01:05:00):
I just fell in love with it.
I like it, and then so can Iput people on blast on this
podcast.
Yeah, so, just like two monthsago, I'm walking in Lewisburg
and this guy's insurance guy intown.
He pops out his door.
He's like, hey, justin, comehere, it's Todd Appledorn.
Like, what's up, todd?
He's like want to do 75 hard?
(01:05:25):
I was like, man, when you wantto, when you thinking, todd,
he's like tomorrow.
I was like I hate, I hate you,um, but I was like, yeah, why
not?
I'll do it.
So, um, we both, we both messedup at day 20.
Uh, and you and the premise ofthe program, if people don't
know, if you miss one thing,you've got to start at day one.
You do it 75 days in a rowwithout any excuses.
(01:05:46):
So he missed a workout becausehe was up at Derby Days late.
And the same exact day I missedone.
You've got to read 10 pages aday.
I missed one page of readingand everybody's like how do you
miss one page of reading?
And everybody's like how'd youmiss one page of reading?
I was reading, I was in themiddle of reading, and we had to
go uptown to get one of ourkids and my wife goes, honey.
We got to go.
So I put the book down.
I thought I'll read.
I'll read one page when I gethome.
(01:06:08):
I went to bed, never looked atit again, so I woke up the next
morning I said, did you fail?
And I was like, yes, um, so youknow, you just have to start
over.
So I called him and and Istarted over at day one.
He started over at day one, uh,and then he had like a flood in
his house and he texts me andhe's like, hey, I'm going to
(01:06:30):
fail again because I got to dealwith this flood in my house and
he had to replace his bathroomand I was like, shh, excuses,
excuses, todd.
Uh, I feel really bad.
I love Todd.
I'm giving him a hard timecompletely, uh, but he did start
back of day one, I think, uh onlast Tuesday, so he wanted to
(01:06:50):
make sure he got Memorial day in, um, so he started last Tuesday
.
So he's he's a pretty good waysbehind me, um, but heck, I
might finish with him.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
I mean, I actually
enjoy it.
He's done it before.
Yeah, he's done it before.
Speaker 4 (01:07:01):
I think he's done it
with your brother.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so pretty fun.
I like to give him a hard timethat he hung me out to dry, but
I kind of like doing it bymyself.
Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Yeah, you know, yeah,
I do too Early.
Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
I can go to the track
and walk in Lewisburg it's nice
or get a late workout in.
I love that one of them has tobe outside and man, I like to
plan it when it's raining, justto be outside.
I loved doing it when it waslike zero degrees outside, like
there's a part of it you justkind of love.
Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
Yeah, you embrace
that.
Yeah, and those are the timesyou don't forget either.
Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Oh, 100%.
You know those challenges yeah,100%.
Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
What do you got Ben,
anything else?
Speaker 1 (01:07:39):
No, I don't do
anything.
Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
What's the GOAT got?
Hey, how old are you, ben Huh,how old are you 47.
Yeah, for men.
Oh he's not.
Oh, how old are you for real?
You might look it 37.
37?
For For men, 37 and over, he'sone of the best basketball
players I've ever seen.
All right, where do we go fromhere?
(01:08:02):
I don't want to go too long onyour podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Four and five what
are the four and five locations?
We said the first three.
Speaker 4 (01:08:07):
Yeah.
So campus number four isRichmond.
Had a lot of families comingover from Richmond and man just
felt like the right thing to do.
We actually started in the YMCAon the other side of town and
then we went to the AMC and wewere in the AMC for a while and
then we ended up buying the oldCox grocery store which is
behind the mall and that's ourpermanent location there.
(01:08:29):
And then Greenville we, youknow, bought a church building
during COVID and so Greenvilleis the newest one.
Man just crushing it, he, he.
The pastor of that church is socommunity minded.
He grew up, uh, graduated fromMissinnawa, um, so he's a local
kid.
And then our, our Richmondpastor, he's, he's wonderful.
(01:08:50):
He's one of the best teachersI've ever encountered in my life
.
Uh, he teaches the word so well.
Um'm just thankful for, for allthe campuses.
But I'll say this like goingfrom and I don't want to lean
into it too much, but going fromthree campuses to five campuses
was the most painful thing andand all we done at cof, um, just
how we did things, the, the,the strain it put on some really
(01:09:14):
good people, um, um, you knowwe, you know we didn't.
There's just some things thatwe were doing.
That probably wasn't the superhealthiest.
You know, people rotatingcampuses every week, not going
to churches with their, theirfamilies, like just made some
mistakes and and didn't realizeit till it was kind of late.
Uh, so I've tried to help a lotof church planners through and
(01:09:35):
just go that are planningmulti-sites and I'm like, hey,
something changes when you gofrom three campuses to four and
five.
You cannot do things the sameway.
We're a logistics company,sometimes just trying to get
coffee to every campus everyweek.
We have a gray folder that hasto go out making sure they have
all the supplies they need, fromtrash bags to cleaning supplies
.
You don't think about gettingall the curriculum to the
(01:09:57):
campuses.
You don't think about thatstuff.
And so we went through somereally hard times through campus
number from three to five.
But we navigated through it.
You know we did our best torecover from it and just did a
good spot now with the fivecampuses.
So yeah, and you know I thinksix and seven are.
You know they're in the sites.
(01:10:18):
Um, I'm not ready to announceon this podcast where it's going
to be, but you know we willprobably start this podcast
isn't good enough for that.
Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
You said it, not me,
Okay, okay, and cut and cut.
Speaker 4 (01:10:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
All right.
Last question Yep, if you couldsit on a park bench, have a
conversation with someone,living or deceased, who would it
be and why?
Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
You know you want to
choose your wife, right, but I
sit with her all the time.
So you know, I thought aboutthis for a little bit and
there's my first answer is BillyGraham.
My first answer is Billy Graham.
Like, if you ever get a chance,just go on YouTube and listen
to his old crusades.
They're amazing and they'restill relevant.
(01:11:04):
Like listening to him preach isone of my favorite things to do
and you can hear it's like theold school sound system in the
background.
But I would just sit down andsay, hey, like how'd you do it
for so long?
I mean, you advise worldleaders, pastors, and he wasn't
a celebrity like type.
(01:11:26):
He didn't want the fame, hedidn't.
He was just steady and hepreached the same thing.
I mean I don't know that he hasmore than five or six messages
he probably does but I mean hepreached consistent, the same
salvation turn to Jesus messageover and over and over again.
Man just would love to sit downwith him.
(01:11:48):
But you said something earlierabout celebrity pastors, which I
don't want to be.
But there's one dude that and Ithink that there's thousands of
guys like this all over Americathat we overlook.
So Billy Grant would be my parkbench guy.
But there's a guy from Eatonand he pastored my grandparents.
He buried my grandparents andhe pastored faithfully in that
(01:12:10):
community for over 50 years.
His name was Lowell Spencer andto me those are the rock stars,
those are the celebrity pastorsthat everybody overlooks.
I remember my grandpa passedaway when I was in high school.
Lowell Spencer's the one thatwalked down in my basement, woke
me up and told me my grandpahad passed away.
(01:12:31):
And guys like him are.
They're the real deal.
I don't care if somebody hassocial media followers.
They have TV programs.
I don't care if they've writtenbooks.
Guys like Lowell Spencer arethe real deal.
They faithfully serve theirchurch and their community for
half a century.
Guys like that, I think, shouldhave way more attention than
(01:12:54):
guys who have just built a bigchurch.
Show me where everybody's at in50 years, not in five minutes.
So that's my park bench isBilly Graham.
Guys like Lowell Spencer areheroes to me and I think they
need to be recognized way morefor their faithful service than
what they are.
(01:13:15):
You know we just lost a stud inour community.
He pastored there for years.
You know we just lost a stud inour community.
He pastored there for years.
You know, david Justice justpassed away in Lewisburg.
Faithful man, faithful, lovedGod, loved to worship, loved the
community, like those are theguys that are.
To me, those are the heroes.
So anyways, that's my two centsthere at the end.
Speaker 3 (01:13:36):
That's pretty awesome
.
How can people learn more aboutthe Community of Faith website?
Speaker 4 (01:13:42):
Yeah, cofchurchescom,
you can check that out.
I think there's man.
I'm not on a lot of stuff, butI think there's Facebook.
I think there's Instagram.
Speaker 1 (01:13:51):
Facebook.
You have Instagram.
Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
Instagram.
There's that, there's the app,yeah, and actually people can.
If they want to physically come, they could come to one of our
campuses.
All the info is on the app oron the website, so they're
welcome to.
But I'll say this if you have agood church, stay plugged in,
Be a blessing to that church.
Don't leave them for somethingbetter or what you think is
(01:14:14):
better.
The grass is not greener on theother side.
The grass is only green whereyou water it.
So water where you're at.
It's huge.
Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
That's great.
Love it, man.
Hey, appreciate your time.
Yeah, man, appreciate youcoming over here to Richmond.
It's an honor.
Speaker 4 (01:14:30):
This is one of our
towns, man, we got to be here,
yeah, so we love Richmond.
Speaker 3 (01:14:34):
It's a great story,
you know, especially for me, not
not knowing it, not reallyknowing you and getting to know
you, so appreciate it.
Everybody like share, do allthose things.
Speaker 4 (01:14:45):
And if I didn't shout
out somebody who's been a
blessing to the organization,like I did with Keith and Carrie
Ann, like I'm sorry.
You're all amazing andimportant to us.
We couldn't have done itwithout you for real, yeah, yeah
.
Yeah amazing and important tous.
We couldn't have done itwithout you For real, yeah, yeah
, yeah, I'm just saying I knowthey're amazing.
Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
No, All right,
everybody go out and be tempered
.
Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Hi, my name is Allie
Schmidt.
This is my dad, dan.
He owns Catron's Glass.
Thanks, allie.
Things like doors and windowsgo into making a house, but when
it's your home, you expect morelike the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatron's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatron's come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom showerdoors and many other products
(01:15:25):
and services.
Call 962-1636.
Locally owned, with localemployees for nearly 30 years,
catron's Glass the clear choice.
Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Hey, do you want to
catch every episode live as it's
being recorded?
Log on to patreoncom slashbetempered for exclusive footage
, behind the scenes, photos anda live recording as it takes
place.
Go to patreoncom slashbetempered.