October 9, 2025 • 55 mins
The wind through pine branches can sound like a lullaby, or the whisper of survival. That’s where Shirley Thacker loved to sit with her husband, Rich—a farm kid turned teacher, veteran, and fighter—dreaming about the book she would someday write. In this powerful episode of BeTempered, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr sit down with Shirley to trace the hard and luminous arc of her life: a small Indiana farm in the 50s and 60s, a ten-year-old’s stolen safety and the silence that followed, the middle-school note that tried to erase her, and the moment on the edge when she felt a love stronger than despair pull her back.
We follow Shirley into young love forged by letters during Rich’s Air Force years, a marriage built with grit and not much money, and a cancer diagnosis that rearranged everything. With Dr. Lawrence Einhorn’s groundbreaking protocol, Rich endured brutal chemo, a miraculous brain surgery, and the long tail of complications—retina damage, PTSD, Parkinsonian symptoms. Alongside the fear and fatigue, there were precise graces: a surgeon who showed up on a Saturday, a tumor lifted out in forty-five minutes, a renowned doctor acknowledging a higher power, and a gas-station prayer met with unexpected peace. When an untreatable brainstem tumor closed the final chapter, hospice brought them home. In the quiet, Rich asked for three things: mow under my red Chevy, fly a flag on my grave, and be happy. She promised.
Shirley kept that promise by writing. Her words became a way to translate grief into craft and service. She wrote poetry and children’s stories, taught kids to compress truth into six words, and donated every dollar to cancer research, local teachers, veterans, and a memorial scholarship. She told her daughters the hard story she’d once hidden, then told her parents, and now tells us—so others don’t have to carry it alone.
We talk practicals too: why boys and men must do self-exams, how to start hard talks with kids, how to spot signals of silent pain, and how to build daily habits that make joy easier to find.
If you need a companion for a long night, this conversation sits beside you without flinching. It’s about breaking secrecy, holding on through treatment, trusting help, and noticing small mercies—the pine wind, a friend at lunch, a nurse’s extra hour, a promise kept.
Listen now at betempered.com
or support the show at patreon.com/betempered
You can explore Shirley’s books and poetry here: https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B08PXVH3MK?ccs_id=4bd01bf5-9ad4-41ad-bf88-2e2edf28d35e
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:04):
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Welcome to the Bee TemperedPodcast, where we explore the
(00:49):
art of finding balance in achaotic world.
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips, and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.
SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
SPEAKER_03 (01:06):
This is Bee Tempered.
SPEAKER_04 (01:07):
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Bee TemperedPodcast, episode number 74.
74, Ben, we're back into summertemperatures right now.
SPEAKER_03 (01:16):
Yeah.
This is the time you get sick,right?
When it gets hot and it getscold and hot and cold.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
I'm ready for the what it was last week or the
week before.
SPEAKER_03 (01:25):
It was nice and cool, and I don't mind the heat,
but and I certainly don't wantthe cold, but I made the comment
earlier that I can't, you know,I'll I miss that temperature,
but then all of a sudden it'slike before we know it, we'll be
bundled up in jackets and kidswill be missing school because
it's the air degrees out.
SPEAKER_04 (01:44):
Hey, some stories are born from hard work,
heartbreak, and healing.
Shirley Thackers is all three.
Born and raised on her family'sfarm in Indiana, Shirley's life
has been full of challenges,many of which she kept hidden
for years.
But through perseverance and bythe grace of God, she discovered
(02:05):
the power of vulnerability.
That discovery has allowed herto share her story with others,
showing how honesty and opennesscan be a bridge to healing and
connection.
An avid reader, writer, andteacher, Shirley has turned her
life experiences into books andstories that inspire and
encourage.
(02:26):
Shirley, we're glad to have youhere today.
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
Thank you, I think.
Oh, I'm this is out of mycomfort zone.
SPEAKER_04 (02:36):
It's out of most people's comfort zone.
So you you're not alone.
Just know uh just take a deepbreath and and uh everything
will be just fine.
But appreciate you making thetrek down from an hour plus away
from north of Muncie.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
It was a beautiful drive.
It's a lovely day.
SPEAKER_04 (02:53):
Yeah.
We've got some mutual friendsthat connected us.
And you and I had a conversationa couple, two, three weeks ago,
whatever it was.
And uh you just you just madethe comment that uh you know we
talked for over an hour.
And um, you know, for me, I wasactually at home when we talked,
(03:14):
and my wife was running aroundcleaning the house when we got
done, and she could see theemotion in my face.
And I she said, What's wrong?
And I said, Um, I just I feltlike I was talking, listening to
my grandmother because yourvoice reminded me of her.
And a lot of the stories thatyou shared, there was a
(03:35):
connection that I had.
And my grandmother, my grandmaSchmidt, and I were I not every
weekend, but a lot of theweekends I would spend the night
at her home.
Uh, she was the most kind,caring, compassionate woman that
I ever knew.
And uh so there was a connectionthere.
So I've been excited uh for youto come and share your story.
(03:58):
And I hope what everybody gainsfrom it is there's so many
different pieces to your story,just like for everyone.
But there's so many differentpieces.
I hope what everybody gains isthat no matter what happens in
your life, you can find thepositive in it.
And that's what you've done.
So thank you.
(04:18):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (04:19):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
So how we start every podcast, as you know, is
we like to start from thebeginning.
So talk about what childhood waslike for you growing up on the
farm.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
It was probably like anybody growing up on the farm
in the 50s and 60s.
Um it was a small farm.
I had more pets than you canimagine.
I I held little baby chicks inmy hand, you know, the little
fluff balls, and you'd put themdown in the brooder house.
It was their pen was lined withnewspaper, and they just
(04:49):
scritched and scratched on it,and uh they went to sleep until
somebody woke them up and theystayed by the the heat lamp.
Baby pigs, you know, I sawcalves born.
It was just truly magical.
The barn lot was a helterskelterof machines and people yelling
orders what we're gonna bedoing, what field we're gonna be
(05:11):
in.
Um I helped my mom cook, um, dothe laundry.
I didn't get paid like mybrother got paid for driving the
tractor, but I got paid inmaterial so I could sew whatever
I wanted to and make my clothes.
Um so it was it was like othersuh until it wasn't.
(05:35):
And so when I was 10, um afamily, friends that mom and dad
knew had a senior boy thatwanted to graduate, but their
house burned down, and they werehaving to find a home somewhere
else.
So dad asked him if he wanted tolive in our house, and uh he
(05:57):
could work and do chores.
I have a brother that's um 11months older and a sister that's
six years younger, so I'm themiddle one.
Um so Ed wasn't quite big enoughto do some of the things that
this 18-year-old boy could do.
And we knew him, and one day hehe was between jobs, or he saw
(06:23):
me trying to ride a bike, and Ihadn't learned to ride a bike at
10.
So right there I felt like I'dfailed.
Most people ride sooner thanthat.
And he said, Let me help youride.
Okay.
So we had gone around the circleby the house, and we went around
the circle by the barn, and heheld me real tight with one arm
(06:44):
and started touching me with theother in places he shouldn't be.
And I didn't know what was goingon.
I was only 10.
I didn't have any idea what whathe was doing.
Why would an 18-year-old boy dothis to me?
And then his mouth was right bymy ear, and he said, Don't tell
anyone, I'll kill your parents.
(07:04):
Uh, you're stupid, you're aliar, no one would believe you
anyway.
And he had a sinister laugh.
I didn't understand.
I did not understand what wasgoing on.
Um, he turned to go to the barn,and I fell to the ground, picked
my bike up, and went to thehouse.
(07:25):
Um we lived in an old two-storyfarmhouse, and originally there
was a pantry downstairs in theearly days that they made into a
bathroom.
And I was taking a bath, and youknow how you feel like
somebody's watching you, and thedoor was locked, I knew, but
(07:45):
when I looked up, there was atransom between the bathroom and
the bedroom.
So he was standing on mysister's bed with his hands on
the bottom of the transomlaughing at me, sneering.
And again, why is thishappening?
I don't know.
(08:06):
I don't know.
I couldn't figure it out.
Um and it happened often in thethree months that he was with
us.
And then it was May and he left.
And but the shame of that wasawful.
And I couldn't tell, because Iyou know, a ten-year-old
believes in adult and what theysay, and even though he wasn't
(08:27):
maybe considered an adult, hewas 18, he looked an adult.
Uh so I put on a mask and livedwith it.
SPEAKER_04 (08:37):
What did your parents think of him?
Did they have any inclination?
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Well, that is a f a story in itself, too, because I
thought my dad knew and didn'tcare.
Because at the supper table hewould say, Oh, how good he was
helping he saw him helping meride a bike and how nice that
was.
I figured you saw everything.
Now, an adult, you think that'spretty stupid, you know.
(09:02):
And I had a very loving mom anddad, and anyone that knew dad
knew if he knew that, it wouldit would be different.
But I didn't feel like I couldtell, and I really thought he
didn't care.
And I really, why does thishappen?
I really thought maybe I wasunworthy.
(09:22):
I wasn't a good person, andmaybe that happens to people
that aren't good.
I don't know.
We were always active in ourchurch.
My grandfather, who I didn'tmeet, he died before I was born,
he was the minister there.
Another grandpa was the songleader, my dad was the deacon
and clerk.
And um I just remember walkinginto church and feeling loved.
(09:46):
And the three older ladies thatsat behind us always hugged me
and always asked how I was.
And I somehow thought they knewand they cared, even though I
didn't say anything to them.
Um the song service at ourchurch was my sermons.
(10:06):
I didn't understand the words,but I loved the singing.
I loved the singing, and so thatkind of got me through those
hard times.
Um I started 4-H and I startedto learn how to cook and sew,
and I found worth in that.
Um I'm a middle child.
(10:29):
My brother associated and wasclose to my mom, and my younger
sister was close to my dad, andI was kind of in the middle.
And some people say that's thatdoesn't matter, but all the kids
I saw at school, I could tell,you know, I always found their
position because that explaineda lot of why they were the way
(10:49):
they were.
Um so we went on, you know, thatwas ten uh ten, fourth grade,
fifth grade, sixth grade, youknow, life was good.
SPEAKER_04 (11:02):
Did you did you ever confide in a friend, tell anyone
about any of that?
You kept around.
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Because I I thought my parents would be killed.
So I had to keep it.
The first person I told was myhusband when he proposed.
And I said, I will say yes, onlyif after I tell you this story.
Because I felt such shame andwhat happened next, too.
(11:29):
Um so I had friends at school,fifth, sixth grade, seventh
grade.
It was the beginning of seventhgrade.
That my friends before wrote mea note and said, We don't want
to be seen with you.
Don't sit with us, don't walkwith us, don't talk with us.
You're not part of our groupanymore.
(11:52):
They didn't know what hadhappened first.
But that here I'm again, he toldme I was nobody, they're telling
me I'm nobody.
Why would they do that?
Well, we were housed in the oldschool at that time, and the new
school was the elementary, andthat's where the cafeteria was.
So we had to walk a block to getlunch.
(12:14):
And at the stop sign, theywanted to flirt with the high
school boys.
I didn't.
I wanted to go eat my lunch andget back and study because I
wanted to be a teacher.
I knew in first grade I wantedto be a teacher.
The couch was filled with mydolls and teddy bears, and I'd
be reading stories to thembecause I wanted to be a
(12:36):
teacher.
I knew I had to get scholarshipbecause dad was a farmer, and I
didn't think we had enough moneyto send all three.
So I worked really hard atschool.
But that's that's why theydidn't want me.
They didn't know the other.
And I don't think girls inmiddle school that are mean know
how much that hurts somebody andhow long that can last.
(13:01):
Um so I went home one day and Ithought I'm just not worthy to
be on this earth.
And I never under I never askedwhy God let this happen.
I just thought I wasn't worthy,so that's what happens when
you're not worthy.
Um there wasn't anything else todo but attempt suicide.
(13:24):
So at twelve, I was up in myroom and I attempted suicide.
And as the air was leaving mybody, I heard, although the
publisher of one of my bookssaid, You don't hear God's
voice, it's the His presence,but I I heard God's voice say, I
(13:45):
love you.
I will always love you, anddon't let anyone ever make you
feel this way again.
So as the air was coming into mybody, I thought, God loves me.
I was amazed.
My mom asked what happened whenI went downstairs or at supper
(14:06):
that night, and I told her I haddried my hair in my bonnet that
had a cord on it.
That's what blow dryers used tobe like in the day, and that
that cord had burned my neck.
And she that was enough for herthat she didn't ask any
questions.
Um But when they gave me thatnote, I ran back to the high
(14:30):
school, hid in the bathroom,closed the bathroom stall,
crossed my legs so nobody couldsee my legs, and I cried without
a noise for two weeks.
That's when I knew there wasn'tanything left but not to be
here.
So after that happened, I went,I decided I was gonna eat, no
(14:52):
matter what.
I was gonna walk to thecafeteria.
And there was an unwritten codethen.
I don't know about you boys, butif you didn't have someone to
sit with, you were nothing.
You had to sit with a crowd.
You know, boys kind of makefriends easier than girls, but
the girls kind of walk aroundand size you up, and they can be
(15:13):
mean.
Um so I walked past those girls,walked over, got my tray, sat
down by myself, and then anothergirl in our class that I knew
but had never really done muchwith said, Can I sit here?
And we were friends till highschool.
So, as bad as that was, Ilearned to walk march to my own
(15:41):
drummer.
And I didn't care what the otherkids said or did.
So the next year in eighthgrade, one of our popular girls
decided to make an honesty book,which was the so social media of
the day.
And it was a notebook, and youhad two pages as you open with
your name, and you all weresupposed to write in it how to
(16:02):
make me a better person.
Everybody wrote down foreverybody how you could help
them improve, and it was goingto be all good, right?
So I opened mine up and it saidthere were only four entries.
Shirley Johnson is a big fatcow, has no friends, uh, is a
teacher's pet and like school orsomething.
(16:26):
Had I not gone through theother, I would have been
devastated.
But I laughed.
I said, if God is with me, whocares?
You know?
And I wish the kids can learnthat now.
You don't have to follow.
You you don't have to lead, butyou have to know what to stand
(16:48):
for.
So the rest, see, that was 12.
So at 14, I prayed that Godwould give me someone to love
that would love me for who I wasand that I could love.
Well, our church had a big groupof kids that age, you know, and
(17:09):
we played volleyball andbaseball on Sunday afternoons.
We'd go to different houses fora big carry-in dinner and all
that.
Well, one day, three of us girlswere sitting under the shade
tree while the boys were playingbaseball, and one of the little
ones, like three, had been withhis mom, but he wanted to be out
with the boys, so he called.
(17:30):
And his brother came over andlifted him over the fence,
didn't complain.
He was over there about fiveminutes, ten, and he wanted to
go back with mom.
So he came out of the outfillagain, lifted him over.
I said, I want him.
I want him or somebody like him.
(17:52):
Um, but I was 14 and he was 17.
So he went to service, he wentto the Air Force, and his aunt
said, Won't you write him?
He's so homesick.
I said, Oh no, he'll think I'm adork.
I mean, I use his name aroundschool all the time because he
(18:13):
went to Anderson, nobody knewhim, so you know, I I was
hoping.
I was praying for that.
I did write him on February 29this leap year, and that is
allowed for girls to ask theboys out.
I didn't know if you know thator not.
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
You didn't know that, but that's true.
So I wrote him the first letter,and then that started us dating
in letters, and um he gave me mydiamond on February 29th, four
years later.
Oh wow.
So, you know, that is the roughpart of my life, and it was
great, you know.
(18:52):
Rich and I uh were married afterhe got out of service.
I finished college.
Uh, we lived in Spencer, wherehis parents had moved from
Anderson.
Um we had a little girl, and wewere pregnant with another one.
And our little trailer on ourfarm, we were gonna have to
build a house.
(19:12):
So we were from Delaware,Madison County, and dad said, if
you want to come back home, I'llgive you an acre of ground, and
you can build a house up here,because that's where we both
kind of grew up.
So dad did that.
I said, give us the hilliestacre you've got.
Didn't compare to Owen County,but it was good.
(19:33):
Um, and we had another baby, andthen we had the blizzard.
SPEAKER_04 (19:38):
78?
Yeah.
That happens to be the year Iwas born.
SPEAKER_00 (19:43):
Huh.
Our daughter, our youngest, wasborn in August of 77.
Rich helped build our house tosave money, uh, so he didn't get
a teaching job.
I wasn't working because of thebaby.
So we had very little money, nosubbing work, and he got very uh
worried about that.
(20:03):
And he would sit and look at theFranklin fire place that we had,
and Kim, the older one, would goup and pat him on the back and
say, Daddy, won't you play withme?
And that was one of our lowpoints because I said he had to
get his act together because hewas hurting the girls.
But he was worried about money.
So um Rich was diagnosed withtesticular cancer on Chris, the
(20:30):
younger one's fourth birthday.
Kim was seven, she was four.
We'd been married nine years.
And that was devastating.
Um on her birthday, I came, Ithey thought at that time it was
kidney stones, and they'd givenhim a lot to sleep, and I
(20:54):
promised them I'd come home andhave a birthday party, you know,
with them.
She's four.
So I left him and I was drivinghome and the car acted up and I
couldn't shift out of firstgear.
And I just thought, God, what Ican't take anymore.
I don't know what else, I don'tknow what to do.
So I'm inching along in first,wanting to get home to her,
(21:16):
wanting tomorrow to be overbecause he was going to have a
surgery.
And I I went to my uncle's housethat was not so far away, and I
was sobbing, and I said, Richhas got cancer and it's Chris's
birthday, and the car's actingup, and I and so he said, I'll
take you home.
I'll come back, I'll work on thecar tonight, Judy, his wife, and
(21:38):
he would bring the car back.
I'd have it ready first thing.
And he did.
So then Rich had surgery toremove one testicle, and uh we
were gonna be headed to IU MedCenter for chemo the next day.
And Rich looked at the urologistand said, How am I gonna get
(21:59):
there by helicopter?
Because he was in pain, he wasscared, and he looked at him and
said, You're not that special,you'll go by car.
So my mom and dad.
My mom and dad became speed dialover the next few years that we
had stuff to go through.
His mom and dad met us there.
(22:20):
Um Dr.
Einhorn had developed theprotocol for testicular cancer.
Um, boys 18 to 34 are who aremost susceptible.
Normal man's HCG count is threeto five, and Rich's was over
26,000.
So he had been bailing hay formy dad in June.
(22:44):
He thought he had a groininjury, and men don't like to go
to the doctor, and their pride,I don't know how you all are,
but their pride is a fiercething.
He just said, Oh, it's nothing,it'll get better.
And then his back startedhurting.
Well, he had a football-sizedtumor in his abdomen and
softball-sized tumors on hislungs.
(23:05):
So he was terminal at thebeginning.
Ten years before, there was zerochance of making it.
But because of Dr.
Einhorn and his protocol, he itwas 98% cure rate.
But you had to go through chemoto shrink down everything before
you can have surgery to remove.
SPEAKER_04 (23:24):
And throughout this time, you were working as a
school teacher?
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
And I well, the first that we went to IU, I
packed for three weeks becausethey couldn't tell me how long I
would be there.
But we were there a week becausethe chemo was so hard on his
kidneys he had to be on IV.
And we found out it would be aweek at a time when we were
there.
Normally they wait um a month ortwo.
(23:47):
But because Rich was so bad, hiswas pushed up to every two
weeks.
SPEAKER_04 (23:51):
How was his attitude throughout that process?
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
You know, he fought in Vietnam.
He was a fighter from thebeginning, and he sat there in
his bed and said, you know, Icould have had all the money in
the world, and I'd still behere.
And how lucky we are to be 60miles from Dr.
Einhorn.
So that was a definite switch inhis thinking about money and
(24:15):
just blessed to be alive andhave hope that they were going
to take care of this.
Um, so I went to stay with himone night and then come back and
teach and stay with the girlsand then went teach and then
went back to with him, so thatwas kind of the rotation I had.
But my parents were very goodto, you know, fill in, and his
(24:38):
parents helped with the girls inthe summer when they didn't have
school because they were inkindergarten in second grade, I
guess.
Preschool maybe in second grade.
It was hard, and people haveasked, how did you get through
that?
And I look back now and justsay, there's no way we could
have gotten through it withoutGod being there with us.
(24:59):
He had his first surgery, andthe next day we were going to
Indianapolis.
Well, that night I went home tobe with the girls because I
didn't know how long I would bethere, and I had to stop and get
gas.
And I just stopped and put myhead on the steering wheel and I
said, I am weak.
I'm weary.
We're two days into this.
I can't do this.
I don't know how long I satthere.
(25:21):
Uh I just was bone-tired.
I got out, filled the car, wentin and paid, came out, and while
I was walking to my car, I feltlike I'd slept.
God had given me a reciprocalpeace.
(25:42):
I said, okay, God, we're gonnado this.
Um so you know, you you knew hewas with you.
He didn't promise us lifewithout pain.
He didn't promise all blueskies.
Um Rich never once said, why me?
He always said, Why not me?
(26:03):
I'm no different than anybodyelse.
He had four younger brothers.
He went to Vietnam hoping hisbrothers wouldn't have to go.
He said, Baby, if I go throughcancer, they wouldn't have to.
You know, it was his way ofthinking.
And one protocol of four weekswas not enough.
They tested his blood, he stillhad, so he had to go through
(26:26):
another round of four weeks.
That March in 82, I was atschool and I came to get him.
He was going to be released thatday.
And he said, it was thestrangest thing.
Grapple Dixon was here and hesaid, Rich, you're gonna be
okay.
It was like he was on the otherside of a curtain.
He said, It was really odd.
(26:47):
I mean, I knew he was there.
I said, Well, that is odd, butyou know, I'm sure he's thinking
about you.
We went home, he died thatafternoon about that time.
And you talk about God moments,and Rich adored him.
And he wasn't strong enough tobe a pole bearer, but he was an
(27:09):
honorary and walked with acasket.
Um, so God was with us in somany ways.
Um he he got well enough andwent back to teaching.
Um the girls were busy inschool, I was busy in school,
life was good, you know.
(27:32):
Well, let me back up.
He his grandpa died in March.
In June, I woke up to the bedshaking.
I thought we were having anearthquake.
I flipped on the light and itwas rich.
He was having a seizure.
He had a brain tumor where thechemo doesn't cross the brain
(27:56):
barrier, so some cells hadgotten through, and he had a
tumor on the brain.
So we were headed back to uh uhIU Med Center.
SPEAKER_04 (28:07):
This was how long after life returned to normal, a
little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
Well, this was before normal.
Before I forgot you I forgotthis one.
Yeah.
This was June before he wentback to work in October.
Um So we went to IU Med Centeron a Thursday.
His surgeon came in on Fridaymorning, and he said, I'm the
best surgeon there is.
(28:31):
I'll take care of you.
And when he walked out, I said,Boy, he was kind of cocky.
And Rich says, if I'm havingbrain surgery, I want the best
surgeon.
Um and he also reminded, he alsosaid, Listen, I had a nurse that
lived up there at Weaver'sPopcorn, and she always brought
me test popcorn.
And Rich had taught up there.
(28:51):
He said, I'll bring you testpopcorn.
That'll be part of my bill.
I said, So we'll have it onMonday.
And he said, Oh no, Rich hasbeen through too much.
We're having it.
I'm gonna come back on Saturday,which they don't usually do
surgery on Saturday.
So Saturday morning we get readyfor the surgery, and the lights
went out, the electricity wasoff at IU Med Center, and I'm
(29:14):
going to the nurse, so we're nothaving it.
What's happening?
And now I'm thinking, okay, thisis a bad sign.
We shouldn't be having this.
And and she said, No, we havegenerators, they just haven't
kicked in yet.
So but you always have doubts.
Oh, yeah.
Even though you feel strong inyour faith, Satan doesn't give
(29:35):
up on you.
unknown (29:36):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
There was one time when he was having it, it was
bad, and I was coming home onsixty nine, and it was like
Satan was in my ear saying, He'snot gonna make it.
He's not gonna make it.
And I'm pounding the dash of thecar saying, Get out of here.
I know he's gonna make it.
I'm not listening to you.
And I've wondered since whysomebody didn't report me to the
(29:57):
police as a crazy woman drivingme out sixty nine.
So then he was able to teach.
Oh the the brain surgery.
45 minutes they came to get me.
Now it was 13 hours when theyremoved the tumors from his lung
and abdomen, two teams.
(30:17):
45 minutes they came and saidhe's ready.
And I knew that they couldn'tget it all in 45 minutes.
And I was kind of crying, andhis mom and brothers and my
parents were there.
So I went back to recovery tosee him, and Dr.
Einhorn was coming out as I wasgoing in.
And I said, So you couldn't getit all.
(30:37):
And he said, Oh no, we got itall.
He said, Richard, you know howhe is.
It was in a sack, protected, soit couldn't, his body had made a
sack, so cells couldn't go out,and it was on the surface of the
brain, so we could just liftthat sack out and be done.
And I said, Oh, thank you foralways taking care of him.
(30:59):
And he said, Shirley, I haven'tdone anything.
Rich has always had a higherpower.
unknown (31:04):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (31:05):
And for a doctor to say that.
So when I got back there, he hada turban on his head and a drain
tube, and he was watching theWorld Series or some baseball
game.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (31:16):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That's amazing, amazing.
So then life goes back tonormal.
SPEAKER_00 (31:21):
Then life goes back to normal, and he taught, and
well, I don't know that we hadnormal.
He had um a detached retina thatthe doctor missed.
In April, we were sitting inchurch and he said, I can't, I
can't see, I can't see theminister's top half.
I said, Oh, go ahead, horse andaround, pay attention.
(31:43):
And then a little bit later hesaid, I can't see the right
half.
So we went into the doctor inApril.
He couldn't find anything wrong.
We went back in May, we wentback in June.
Rich is complaining.
So we get him some PTSTpost-traumatic stress disorder
counseling, thinking, you know,Rich has always had uh
(32:05):
survivor's guilt from comingback in Vietnam and and not
being physically wounded.
But I thought his was more, am Igonna have cancer again?
So finally in September he said,I have to I have to go again to
the doctor.
(32:25):
The doctor had the Saturdayappointments, he said, I'll give
you 15 minutes of counseling,but I know there's nothing
wrong.
A new doctor walked in who had aspecial magnifying, he had a
torn retina all that time.
And they called me.
I was at a section regionalvolleyball game at Westdown.
(32:48):
They called the school, they gota hold of me.
I went in thinking he's gonna bejust one mess.
And he was so happy, he said,I'm not crazy.
There really is something wrong.
So we had that, he had a buckledretina, uh, he developed
Parkinson's disease from theysaid, all that he'd been
(33:09):
through.
Not it's it wasn't a typicalParkinson's, but he was started
losing balance and he had towalk with a walker, and that was
hard on him.
The pride thing of needing awalker and then a wheelchair.
And people often talked to meover him when he was in the
(33:30):
wheelchair, and they didn'trealize what they were doing,
and that was hard.
So he left teaching in 95 andwas doing fairly well, but had
some memory issues from thewhere his tumor was is the front
lobo where he planning and thatkind of thing.
(33:53):
We went back in April of 2005 tothe hospital because he was
falling.
And they found he had a tumor onthe brainstem.
And you can't do anything with atumor on the brain stem, you
can't biopsy it, you can'tremove it.
It was not testicular comingback because the blood work was
fine.
(34:13):
So here we go.
SPEAKER_04 (34:15):
What were you thinking then?
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
I was thinking that he would have to be in a nursing
home or I quit teaching becausehe couldn't be left alone.
So we had uh two nurses staywith him, a veteran came one
day, and the school let me stayhome two days to finish school.
I didn't want him to go to anursing home, and he didn't want
me to quit teaching because heknew I loved it.
(34:40):
That was in April when he camehome.
School ended the end of May.
He died the 8th of June.
I think he gave up because heknew it was hard.
And it was hard for him.
So we had um when he came home,we had a hospital bed put in our
bedroom and um that final so hecould talk on Friday, and his
(35:07):
brothers had all been there.
And in the middle of the nighthe woke me up and I I said, It's
two o'clock in the morning,you've got to go to sleep.
You know, I went back to bed andhe rattled the rails again.
And I went over and I said, Areyou okay?
And he just looked at me and Isaid, Are you scared?
And I crawled in bed with him.
(35:28):
And he said, Would you promiseme three things?
I said, I'll promise youanything.
He said, When I'm gone, will youmow under my Chevy?
You know how bad it looks tohave weeds under your truck of
all the things for him to thinkabout.
I said, I'll mow, I'll mow underyour red Chevy.
Will you put a flag on my grave?
(35:50):
I don't want flowers.
I want an American flag.
I will do that.
And he said, Will you be happy?
I said, I will be happy.
He said, You're a strong person.
I know you'll make it.
So that was Thursday, Friday.
Sunday he wasn't talking.
(36:11):
Hospice had been called in.
They were gonna bring in aVietnam medic who was used to
finding veins because they saidhe was dehydrated.
And then they wanted to take himback to the hospital and hydrate
him.
And I said, Would you promise methat I can bring him home if he
goes to the hospital?
And she said, I can't promisethat they'll release him.
(36:33):
And he said when we came home,don't take me back.
They can't do anything, don'ttake me back.
So the the Vietnam medic came,the service veteran who had
fought in Vietnam came and hesaid he was already in the dying
process, and if you try andrehibrate rehydrate him, it
would make everything worse.
(36:54):
So he he passed away and we hadthe funeral, and Rich wanted to
be in s buried in southernIndiana, so it's a three-hour
drive to the cemetery.
But there are, I don't know,five Thacker men all in a row
that had served.
And he wanted to be there withthem.
(37:15):
So I had school, I was stillteaching, and I had school, and
you know, grieving is on and offagain.
You just you don't ever finishit.
It just comes and goes.
And the hole in your heart nevermends, and time doesn't make it
better.
You just learn to live with it.
(37:37):
Um so I love this man since Iwas 14.
It it was hard not to have himwith me and help me make
decisions, and he got to walk.
The youngest one got marriedfirst.
He got to walk her down theaisle, but he was gone when the
second one got married.
SPEAKER_04 (37:57):
Thank you for sharing all that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
I mean, that's um I wouldn't be standing here if it
wasn't for God's grace, hismercy, his love, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (38:10):
It's it's so powerful just to, you know, that
your voice is what gets me.
You know, it's just so calming,and you know, I can only imagine
the pain and the the fear andthe doubt that you felt
throughout you know, since beinga 10-year-old little girl.
One thing you didn't hit on wasthis this book of poetry that
(38:32):
you wrote called The WindBeneath the Pines.
Can you talk about that a littlebit?
Because this is one this iswhere you got me.
SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Yeah.
At the end of our house, heplanted pine trees all over our
property.
And at the end of the house, wehad pine trees.
And Rich would love to have hislounge chair out there and rest,
and he had his straw hat overhis eyes, and the cat would be
on his belly, and he'd say,Won't you come and sit with me?
(39:00):
And I said, But I've gotlaundry, I've got school, I've
got, you know, and it wasn'tthat I didn't want to be there,
I just didn't think I had timethat I could.
But the last year, and I didn'tknow it was the last summer, I
went out with him.
And it was the most peaceful.
There is a breeze that blows inpine trees that makes a noise
(39:22):
like no other.
And so I sat with him and it waslike peace and and calmness.
And he said, I want you to writea book and we'll call and call
it Wind Beneath the Pines.
I wasn't even writing then.
I didn't start writing untilafter he died.
Um, I wanted to write his storyfor hospice, is why I started.
(39:45):
But he said, you know, when wesit on grandpa's porch or we sit
around the kitchen table and allthose stories start floating
around, and they're not in anyorder, it's just short stories.
And he said you could have achapter on our family, and a
chapter on church and faith, anda chapter on school kids.
(40:07):
So after I started writing, Ialways had in mind I would do
that, and they would be shortstories.
Philip Gawley has porch tales,and they're just short quips.
That's what it was going to be.
But then I loved poetry, and soI was afraid I was gonna die and
not have it done, and I had toget it done.
(40:28):
So I I wrote poetry.
And I I'm always looking forpoems, poetry that kids can do
because I teach kids still.
I tutor and uh I help mydaughter with the comp class of
fourth and fifth graders, and Iwant she does not like poetry,
by the way.
I I'm called in for the poetry,and I want them to know because
(40:52):
you can write a lot in a littleamount of space, and it says a
lot, and I want the kids to beable to write their stories.
So I wrote the first story,Richard's hospice.
I wrote my story next becauseI'd carried it around so long,
(41:13):
and I don't think I'd been toldyou can't write other things
until you write the hardstories.
So so it's a poetry book.
SPEAKER_04 (41:22):
Well, and here's here's why it hit me, because
I've only I've only ever told mmy wife this.
I I've always told her, I, youknow, if I'm ever on my
deathbed, which I will besomeday, but if I'm if I'm
blessed enough to be in thatposition and be at home, I have
always told her, sit me in frontof the window where there's a
nice cool breeze that I canfeel, because at our home we've
(41:44):
got pine trees to the west, andthere's always a breeze.
And that is my uh comfort zoneis sitting in front of a window
or sitting in a spot under ashade tree where I feel that
breeze.
So when you told me that, it waslike, holy cow, you know, and
here you wrote a book about it.
So that was the big connectionfor me.
(42:04):
I I want to read the back coverof this book.
It says, In the shade of thepine trees, the whisper of the
wind blowing through thebranches sounds like the
conversations on the front porchand the remembrances shared by
those gathered around thekitchen table.
You need to write the stories,Shirley's husband said as he sat
(42:25):
near the trees.
The tales about life.
So Shirley did.
SPEAKER_00 (42:31):
So in this, I have six different kinds of poetry,
and I used rich to write in theend at the back all the
different kinds.
Six-word poems.
Can you imagine saying anythingwith just six words?
But free verse.
I hated washing dishes.
(42:52):
I declared I would marry someonerich and buy paper plates.
Mom laughed when I married Rich.
My friend, we went, we met inchurch, we played volleyball and
softball.
At 14, I knew he was the guy Godgave me.
He was 17 and oh so shy.
When he went to the Air Forceand was homesick, I wrote him.
(43:14):
Time, absence, our love grewthrough those letters, prayers
as he fought in Vietnam.
Our Vietnam soldiers enduredridicule when they came home.
Rich was covered with survivors'guilt.
We relied on our faith and love,two young kids, married, and
became one.
We learned life together andbecame parents of two daughters,
(43:34):
worked hard for our teachingcareers.
Nine years after the wedding,another battle began.
Testicular cancer spread to hisabdomen, lugs, and brain.
Rich became a soldier again,this time in God's army.
He fought a good fight.
He ran the face race withpatients.
Problems came, torn retina,buckled retina, PTSD,
(43:56):
Parkinson's damage fromchemotherapy.
He always bounced back until hedidn't.
A tumor on the brainstemcouldn't be treated.
The doctor said, Go home andlive the rest of your days.
There is nothing more we can do.
I believe he gave up knowing itwas getting hard for me.
I held his hand where while hetook his last three breaths.
(44:17):
He soared away with the angel,strong again and walking tall.
No more sickness and sadness.
Fearless he launched away.
My love, my friend, my nortnorthern star.
One day, one day we'll walk thestreets of heaven together.
SPEAKER_04 (44:35):
And that's The Wind Beneath the Pines, poetry by
Shirley Thacker.
You can get this, and we'llwe'll link this on the website.
We'll link it at the bottom ofthe YouTube and everywhere for
the podcast, so those of you uhcan support.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
So when I started writing, I felt it was God
giving me the gift to write.
And so if God gives you atalent, you're not supposed to
keep them.
You're supposed to give themaway.
I keep none of the money from mybooks.
I've supported um CancerResearch and Dr.
Einhorn, the um Writer Path inHagerstown, um teachers at our
(45:14):
school, um homeless veterans,Latchkey at our school, and the
red Chevy.
The red Chevy is abouteverything Rich our grandson
said when he died.
AJ in the book said, why didn'tPap take his red Chevy to
(45:34):
heaven?
He really said that.
And I said, Well, he was kindand he left it because he knew
we would need it.
That money was going to go towounded warriors because Rich
was a vet.
In the meantime, I'd sent it tothe publisher.
A 19-year-old boy from Westdale,who was a middle school football
(45:57):
coach, had been to a wedding,helped clean up, coming home
late at night, went off theroad.
He called his mom, she said,We'll come.
She talked to him the whole way,he wasn't hurt, and he said, She
said, We're almost there.
And he got out of the car tomeet them.
And he stepped on a live wireand was killed.
(46:18):
So the money from that book innight in 2018 went to Alex
Collins um football scholarship.
His mom, and I forgot that, umAnother God moment.
She wrote a song and I fell inlove with it.
(46:39):
I got the C D and I took it hometo play it for Rich.
He he cried.
I played it through three times.
We just sat there and criedabout thanking God for all
you've brought us through.
And he said, How did she knowour story?
Well, it wasn't her our story,it was her story.
But she sang that for me with uhat Rich's funeral.
SPEAKER_04 (47:00):
Wow.
And so how many books have youwritten?
I've got a whole stack here.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
Seven, I think.
SPEAKER_04 (47:05):
Seven.
So seven books, a lot ofchildren's books.
Yes.
Um and again, we'll link allthese and there, you know, so
that people can um I don't know,maybe we can purchase them.
There's two, four, three.
I kind of lost count.
That's awesome.
There's eight, yeah.
And you said there's one that'snot a big one.
There's one more, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
So a lot of them are on Amazon and then Kids at Heart
Publishing in uh Cambridge Citydid the others, but it's
amazing.
SPEAKER_04 (47:31):
And you wrote your story from from when you were
ten?
SPEAKER_00 (47:35):
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_04 (47:36):
How long did you keep that in before you actually
told uh you you obviously toldRich when he asked you to marry
him?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (47:42):
But beyond that, when the girls were in middle
school, Kim came home one dayand said, I don't think anybody
would know if I wasn't here.
I'm not a sports person, I'm notin the clubs, I don't date
anyone, I don't drink, I don'ttell foul stor jokes, I'm just
(48:04):
nobody.
So I pulled out my little pieceof paper that they had written
on that I had saved all thoseyears, and I told them.
And about that time I told momand dad.
SPEAKER_04 (48:20):
How did they react?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
They just they couldn't believe it, you know.
Dad said, You should have, youshould have told us.
I said, I thought he would killyou.
You know, so I didn't.
SPEAKER_04 (48:32):
So what advice would you have for someone who may be
in that same situation rightnow?
SPEAKER_00 (48:38):
If anyone tells you don't tell, you tell, because
nobody has that right over youto tell you not to tell
something.
Um if you feel like you'renobody, know that you are.
You are somebody made special.
We're wonderfully, marvelouslymade by our God who made the
(48:59):
earth, the heavens.
You're an heir in his kingdom.
How could you not be nothing?
You are somebody.
Um to anyone that's battling anykind of illness, you just have
to hold on.
The pain ends.
That little boy on Idol sang asong he wrote, Hope, H-O-P-E.
(49:20):
Hold on, pain ends.
And look for joy.
I think when we are in the midstof sadness, we don't see much
joy.
We don't we may feel blessed,but uh the gratitude that comes
every single day when you seejoy.
(49:40):
And if you if you need to find alittle child that's six or
seven, spend some time becauseyou will find joy immediately
playing and talking and readingwith little kids.
SPEAKER_04 (49:52):
Absolutely.
Last question If you could siton a park bench and have a
conversation with someone livingor deceased, who would it be and
why?
SPEAKER_00 (50:03):
Without a doubt, it would be on a park bench beneath
the wind of the pine trees, andit would be rich.
And we would hold hands.
I wouldn't ask him about heaven,but I would say to you, I know
you've seen all that'shappening.
(50:23):
In those seconds, if God had notbeen with me, your children
wouldn't be here, yourgrandchildren wouldn't be here,
and we wouldn't have loved eachother.
So they were saved for a reason,and I would be in his arms one
more time.
SPEAKER_04 (50:44):
Wow.
There you go, Ben.
SPEAKER_03 (50:47):
Powerful.
You gripped me right from therip because my son, uh, Cy, he's
10.
And then the second instancethat you had with seventh
grader, I have another sonthat's in seventh grade, and
just thinking about, you know,some of the things that you
weren't able to share with yourparents.
And those things that us asparents don't think about, you
(51:08):
know, really talking to yourkids about.
It's just uh it was reallyeye-opening, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (51:14):
They don't always tell, they don't always know how
to say, and if you have boys, Imean you have to start talking
about um exam, self-exam, justlike the girls do for a breast.
You have to do that.
Uh, because you never think it'sgonna happen to you.
If Rich had gone in June, hewouldn't have had such
extensive.
If you get it early, men withpride that don't want to go to
(51:37):
the doctor need to nip it in thebud and go early.
Um, you know, with the story Iwrote about my story, it's got a
Christmas tree on the front, butit's not billed as a Christmas
story.
And the reason I did that wasbecause it was in October when
(51:57):
it happened.
And so on Christmas, I sat inour living room.
They were all in the kitchen butme.
The lights of the Christmastree.
I thought, man, God, why did yousave me?
I don't know.
What have I ever done?
Chris Christofferson's song,what have I ever done to deserve
one, even one of the blessings Ihave?
(52:21):
But I'm glad you did.
And I just, when we got marriedand had our first Christmas,
Rich knew that how much itmeant.
We spent hours finding theperfect Christmas tree.
Let me just say.
And so Jonathan Bao is fromYorktown and he's an artist at
Taylor.
He did the illustrations.
So when I got them for approval,I looked at the back page and I
(52:44):
said, Jonathan, you gave meangels.
And he said, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
I said, You put angels in thelight bulbs.
He said, No, I didn't.
I said, I see angels.
I see angels.
SPEAKER_04 (52:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:56):
And that wasn't intentional.
SPEAKER_04 (52:58):
Oh.
That's pretty awesome.
It's an amazing story, and Ican't say thank you enough for
being so open and honest andvulnerable with it, because um
it's not an easy thing to do,but I think it's an important
thing to do.
SPEAKER_00 (53:16):
If I said, why did God save me and not others?
Robin Williams had far moremoney than me to help people,
then it I must have gone throughit for a reason.
And I really think it's to sharewith kids.
It's to share with others tohelp them go through.
(53:37):
So thank you for letting me havea platform to do that.
SPEAKER_04 (53:40):
Yeah, you're you're amazing.
You're amazing.
Your story's amazing, your yourpositive attitude, um, your
voice.
Uh again, I I feel mygrandmother.
I really do.
It's it's uh it's very touching,and and I know that there are
many of you out there who haveheard this story and have been
touched in some way, shape, orform, whether it's for maybe a
(54:03):
similar battle as as a younggirl going through that.
Maybe it's uh, you know, uh aloved one who's was sick, and uh
maybe they're going through itright now.
But as we've learned, the painwill end.
Yeah, life will continue to goon, yeah.
And as long as you remainpositive and you try to find the
(54:25):
good in it, everything will beokay.
SPEAKER_02 (54:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (54:27):
And have faith.
SPEAKER_00 (54:28):
Have faith.
Know your blessings.
God loves us and look for thejoy.
I hope you put my email addresson, and anybody that wants to
write their story to me, I'd behappy to read it.
SPEAKER_04 (54:42):
Absolutely.
Yeah, if you're okay with that,we'll do that.
That way, if you they want toreach out and um, you know,
share whatever story or ask aquestion.
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's awesome.
All right, everybody.
Thank you again for your earsand your support.
Surely thank you again formaking the trek and go out and
be tempered.
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
My name is Alice.
This is what I've got to do.
SPEAKER_04 (55:04):
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Welcome to the Bee TemperedPodcast, where we explore the
(00:49):
art of finding balance in achaotic world.
SPEAKER_03 (00:51):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips, and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.
SPEAKER_04 (00:59):
We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
SPEAKER_03 (01:06):
This is Bee Tempered.
SPEAKER_04 (01:07):
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Bee TemperedPodcast, episode number 74.
74, Ben, we're back into summertemperatures right now.
SPEAKER_03 (01:16):
Yeah.
This is the time you get sick,right?
When it gets hot and it getscold and hot and cold.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (01:22):
I'm ready for the what it was last week or the
week before.
SPEAKER_03 (01:25):
It was nice and cool, and I don't mind the heat,
but and I certainly don't wantthe cold, but I made the comment
earlier that I can't, you know,I'll I miss that temperature,
but then all of a sudden it'slike before we know it, we'll be
bundled up in jackets and kidswill be missing school because
it's the air degrees out.
SPEAKER_04 (01:44):
Hey, some stories are born from hard work,
heartbreak, and healing.
Shirley Thackers is all three.
Born and raised on her family'sfarm in Indiana, Shirley's life
has been full of challenges,many of which she kept hidden
for years.
But through perseverance and bythe grace of God, she discovered
(02:05):
the power of vulnerability.
That discovery has allowed herto share her story with others,
showing how honesty and opennesscan be a bridge to healing and
connection.
An avid reader, writer, andteacher, Shirley has turned her
life experiences into books andstories that inspire and
encourage.
(02:26):
Shirley, we're glad to have youhere today.
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast.
SPEAKER_00 (02:30):
Thank you, I think.
Oh, I'm this is out of mycomfort zone.
SPEAKER_04 (02:36):
It's out of most people's comfort zone.
So you you're not alone.
Just know uh just take a deepbreath and and uh everything
will be just fine.
But appreciate you making thetrek down from an hour plus away
from north of Muncie.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
It was a beautiful drive.
It's a lovely day.
SPEAKER_04 (02:53):
Yeah.
We've got some mutual friendsthat connected us.
And you and I had a conversationa couple, two, three weeks ago,
whatever it was.
And uh you just you just madethe comment that uh you know we
talked for over an hour.
And um, you know, for me, I wasactually at home when we talked,
(03:14):
and my wife was running aroundcleaning the house when we got
done, and she could see theemotion in my face.
And I she said, What's wrong?
And I said, Um, I just I feltlike I was talking, listening to
my grandmother because yourvoice reminded me of her.
And a lot of the stories thatyou shared, there was a
(03:35):
connection that I had.
And my grandmother, my grandmaSchmidt, and I were I not every
weekend, but a lot of theweekends I would spend the night
at her home.
Uh, she was the most kind,caring, compassionate woman that
I ever knew.
And uh so there was a connectionthere.
So I've been excited uh for youto come and share your story.
(03:58):
And I hope what everybody gainsfrom it is there's so many
different pieces to your story,just like for everyone.
But there's so many differentpieces.
I hope what everybody gains isthat no matter what happens in
your life, you can find thepositive in it.
And that's what you've done.
So thank you.
(04:18):
For sure.
SPEAKER_00 (04:19):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (04:20):
So how we start every podcast, as you know, is
we like to start from thebeginning.
So talk about what childhood waslike for you growing up on the
farm.
SPEAKER_00 (04:29):
It was probably like anybody growing up on the farm
in the 50s and 60s.
Um it was a small farm.
I had more pets than you canimagine.
I I held little baby chicks inmy hand, you know, the little
fluff balls, and you'd put themdown in the brooder house.
It was their pen was lined withnewspaper, and they just
(04:49):
scritched and scratched on it,and uh they went to sleep until
somebody woke them up and theystayed by the the heat lamp.
Baby pigs, you know, I sawcalves born.
It was just truly magical.
The barn lot was a helterskelterof machines and people yelling
orders what we're gonna bedoing, what field we're gonna be
(05:11):
in.
Um I helped my mom cook, um, dothe laundry.
I didn't get paid like mybrother got paid for driving the
tractor, but I got paid inmaterial so I could sew whatever
I wanted to and make my clothes.
Um so it was it was like othersuh until it wasn't.
(05:35):
And so when I was 10, um afamily, friends that mom and dad
knew had a senior boy thatwanted to graduate, but their
house burned down, and they werehaving to find a home somewhere
else.
So dad asked him if he wanted tolive in our house, and uh he
(05:57):
could work and do chores.
I have a brother that's um 11months older and a sister that's
six years younger, so I'm themiddle one.
Um so Ed wasn't quite big enoughto do some of the things that
this 18-year-old boy could do.
And we knew him, and one day hehe was between jobs, or he saw
(06:23):
me trying to ride a bike, and Ihadn't learned to ride a bike at
10.
So right there I felt like I'dfailed.
Most people ride sooner thanthat.
And he said, Let me help youride.
Okay.
So we had gone around the circleby the house, and we went around
the circle by the barn, and heheld me real tight with one arm
(06:44):
and started touching me with theother in places he shouldn't be.
And I didn't know what was goingon.
I was only 10.
I didn't have any idea what whathe was doing.
Why would an 18-year-old boy dothis to me?
And then his mouth was right bymy ear, and he said, Don't tell
anyone, I'll kill your parents.
(07:04):
Uh, you're stupid, you're aliar, no one would believe you
anyway.
And he had a sinister laugh.
I didn't understand.
I did not understand what wasgoing on.
Um, he turned to go to the barn,and I fell to the ground, picked
my bike up, and went to thehouse.
(07:25):
Um we lived in an old two-storyfarmhouse, and originally there
was a pantry downstairs in theearly days that they made into a
bathroom.
And I was taking a bath, and youknow how you feel like
somebody's watching you, and thedoor was locked, I knew, but
(07:45):
when I looked up, there was atransom between the bathroom and
the bedroom.
So he was standing on mysister's bed with his hands on
the bottom of the transomlaughing at me, sneering.
And again, why is thishappening?
I don't know.
(08:06):
I don't know.
I couldn't figure it out.
Um and it happened often in thethree months that he was with
us.
And then it was May and he left.
And but the shame of that wasawful.
And I couldn't tell, because Iyou know, a ten-year-old
believes in adult and what theysay, and even though he wasn't
(08:27):
maybe considered an adult, hewas 18, he looked an adult.
Uh so I put on a mask and livedwith it.
SPEAKER_04 (08:37):
What did your parents think of him?
Did they have any inclination?
SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Well, that is a f a story in itself, too, because I
thought my dad knew and didn'tcare.
Because at the supper table hewould say, Oh, how good he was
helping he saw him helping meride a bike and how nice that
was.
I figured you saw everything.
Now, an adult, you think that'spretty stupid, you know.
(09:02):
And I had a very loving mom anddad, and anyone that knew dad
knew if he knew that, it wouldit would be different.
But I didn't feel like I couldtell, and I really thought he
didn't care.
And I really, why does thishappen?
I really thought maybe I wasunworthy.
(09:22):
I wasn't a good person, andmaybe that happens to people
that aren't good.
I don't know.
We were always active in ourchurch.
My grandfather, who I didn'tmeet, he died before I was born,
he was the minister there.
Another grandpa was the songleader, my dad was the deacon
and clerk.
And um I just remember walkinginto church and feeling loved.
(09:46):
And the three older ladies thatsat behind us always hugged me
and always asked how I was.
And I somehow thought they knewand they cared, even though I
didn't say anything to them.
Um the song service at ourchurch was my sermons.
(10:06):
I didn't understand the words,but I loved the singing.
I loved the singing, and so thatkind of got me through those
hard times.
Um I started 4-H and I startedto learn how to cook and sew,
and I found worth in that.
Um I'm a middle child.
(10:29):
My brother associated and wasclose to my mom, and my younger
sister was close to my dad, andI was kind of in the middle.
And some people say that's thatdoesn't matter, but all the kids
I saw at school, I could tell,you know, I always found their
position because that explaineda lot of why they were the way
(10:49):
they were.
Um so we went on, you know, thatwas ten uh ten, fourth grade,
fifth grade, sixth grade, youknow, life was good.
SPEAKER_04 (11:02):
Did you did you ever confide in a friend, tell anyone
about any of that?
You kept around.
SPEAKER_00 (11:09):
Because I I thought my parents would be killed.
So I had to keep it.
The first person I told was myhusband when he proposed.
And I said, I will say yes, onlyif after I tell you this story.
Because I felt such shame andwhat happened next, too.
(11:29):
Um so I had friends at school,fifth, sixth grade, seventh
grade.
It was the beginning of seventhgrade.
That my friends before wrote mea note and said, We don't want
to be seen with you.
Don't sit with us, don't walkwith us, don't talk with us.
You're not part of our groupanymore.
(11:52):
They didn't know what hadhappened first.
But that here I'm again, he toldme I was nobody, they're telling
me I'm nobody.
Why would they do that?
Well, we were housed in the oldschool at that time, and the new
school was the elementary, andthat's where the cafeteria was.
So we had to walk a block to getlunch.
(12:14):
And at the stop sign, theywanted to flirt with the high
school boys.
I didn't.
I wanted to go eat my lunch andget back and study because I
wanted to be a teacher.
I knew in first grade I wantedto be a teacher.
The couch was filled with mydolls and teddy bears, and I'd
be reading stories to thembecause I wanted to be a
(12:36):
teacher.
I knew I had to get scholarshipbecause dad was a farmer, and I
didn't think we had enough moneyto send all three.
So I worked really hard atschool.
But that's that's why theydidn't want me.
They didn't know the other.
And I don't think girls inmiddle school that are mean know
how much that hurts somebody andhow long that can last.
(13:01):
Um so I went home one day and Ithought I'm just not worthy to
be on this earth.
And I never under I never askedwhy God let this happen.
I just thought I wasn't worthy,so that's what happens when
you're not worthy.
Um there wasn't anything else todo but attempt suicide.
(13:24):
So at twelve, I was up in myroom and I attempted suicide.
And as the air was leaving mybody, I heard, although the
publisher of one of my bookssaid, You don't hear God's
voice, it's the His presence,but I I heard God's voice say, I
(13:45):
love you.
I will always love you, anddon't let anyone ever make you
feel this way again.
So as the air was coming into mybody, I thought, God loves me.
I was amazed.
My mom asked what happened whenI went downstairs or at supper
(14:06):
that night, and I told her I haddried my hair in my bonnet that
had a cord on it.
That's what blow dryers used tobe like in the day, and that
that cord had burned my neck.
And she that was enough for herthat she didn't ask any
questions.
Um But when they gave me thatnote, I ran back to the high
(14:30):
school, hid in the bathroom,closed the bathroom stall,
crossed my legs so nobody couldsee my legs, and I cried without
a noise for two weeks.
That's when I knew there wasn'tanything left but not to be
here.
So after that happened, I went,I decided I was gonna eat, no
(14:52):
matter what.
I was gonna walk to thecafeteria.
And there was an unwritten codethen.
I don't know about you boys, butif you didn't have someone to
sit with, you were nothing.
You had to sit with a crowd.
You know, boys kind of makefriends easier than girls, but
the girls kind of walk aroundand size you up, and they can be
(15:13):
mean.
Um so I walked past those girls,walked over, got my tray, sat
down by myself, and then anothergirl in our class that I knew
but had never really done muchwith said, Can I sit here?
And we were friends till highschool.
So, as bad as that was, Ilearned to walk march to my own
(15:41):
drummer.
And I didn't care what the otherkids said or did.
So the next year in eighthgrade, one of our popular girls
decided to make an honesty book,which was the so social media of
the day.
And it was a notebook, and youhad two pages as you open with
your name, and you all weresupposed to write in it how to
(16:02):
make me a better person.
Everybody wrote down foreverybody how you could help
them improve, and it was goingto be all good, right?
So I opened mine up and it saidthere were only four entries.
Shirley Johnson is a big fatcow, has no friends, uh, is a
teacher's pet and like school orsomething.
(16:26):
Had I not gone through theother, I would have been
devastated.
But I laughed.
I said, if God is with me, whocares?
You know?
And I wish the kids can learnthat now.
You don't have to follow.
You you don't have to lead, butyou have to know what to stand
(16:48):
for.
So the rest, see, that was 12.
So at 14, I prayed that Godwould give me someone to love
that would love me for who I wasand that I could love.
Well, our church had a big groupof kids that age, you know, and
(17:09):
we played volleyball andbaseball on Sunday afternoons.
We'd go to different houses fora big carry-in dinner and all
that.
Well, one day, three of us girlswere sitting under the shade
tree while the boys were playingbaseball, and one of the little
ones, like three, had been withhis mom, but he wanted to be out
with the boys, so he called.
(17:30):
And his brother came over andlifted him over the fence,
didn't complain.
He was over there about fiveminutes, ten, and he wanted to
go back with mom.
So he came out of the outfillagain, lifted him over.
I said, I want him.
I want him or somebody like him.
(17:52):
Um, but I was 14 and he was 17.
So he went to service, he wentto the Air Force, and his aunt
said, Won't you write him?
He's so homesick.
I said, Oh no, he'll think I'm adork.
I mean, I use his name aroundschool all the time because he
(18:13):
went to Anderson, nobody knewhim, so you know, I I was
hoping.
I was praying for that.
I did write him on February 29this leap year, and that is
allowed for girls to ask theboys out.
I didn't know if you know thator not.
SPEAKER_02 (18:30):
I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_00 (18:31):
You didn't know that, but that's true.
So I wrote him the first letter,and then that started us dating
in letters, and um he gave me mydiamond on February 29th, four
years later.
Oh wow.
So, you know, that is the roughpart of my life, and it was
great, you know.
(18:52):
Rich and I uh were married afterhe got out of service.
I finished college.
Uh, we lived in Spencer, wherehis parents had moved from
Anderson.
Um we had a little girl, and wewere pregnant with another one.
And our little trailer on ourfarm, we were gonna have to
build a house.
(19:12):
So we were from Delaware,Madison County, and dad said, if
you want to come back home, I'llgive you an acre of ground, and
you can build a house up here,because that's where we both
kind of grew up.
So dad did that.
I said, give us the hilliestacre you've got.
Didn't compare to Owen County,but it was good.
(19:33):
Um, and we had another baby, andthen we had the blizzard.
SPEAKER_04 (19:38):
78?
Yeah.
That happens to be the year Iwas born.
SPEAKER_00 (19:43):
Huh.
Our daughter, our youngest, wasborn in August of 77.
Rich helped build our house tosave money, uh, so he didn't get
a teaching job.
I wasn't working because of thebaby.
So we had very little money, nosubbing work, and he got very uh
worried about that.
(20:03):
And he would sit and look at theFranklin fire place that we had,
and Kim, the older one, would goup and pat him on the back and
say, Daddy, won't you play withme?
And that was one of our lowpoints because I said he had to
get his act together because hewas hurting the girls.
But he was worried about money.
So um Rich was diagnosed withtesticular cancer on Chris, the
(20:30):
younger one's fourth birthday.
Kim was seven, she was four.
We'd been married nine years.
And that was devastating.
Um on her birthday, I came, Ithey thought at that time it was
kidney stones, and they'd givenhim a lot to sleep, and I
(20:54):
promised them I'd come home andhave a birthday party, you know,
with them.
She's four.
So I left him and I was drivinghome and the car acted up and I
couldn't shift out of firstgear.
And I just thought, God, what Ican't take anymore.
I don't know what else, I don'tknow what to do.
So I'm inching along in first,wanting to get home to her,
(21:16):
wanting tomorrow to be overbecause he was going to have a
surgery.
And I I went to my uncle's housethat was not so far away, and I
was sobbing, and I said, Richhas got cancer and it's Chris's
birthday, and the car's actingup, and I and so he said, I'll
take you home.
I'll come back, I'll work on thecar tonight, Judy, his wife, and
(21:38):
he would bring the car back.
I'd have it ready first thing.
And he did.
So then Rich had surgery toremove one testicle, and uh we
were gonna be headed to IU MedCenter for chemo the next day.
And Rich looked at the urologistand said, How am I gonna get
(21:59):
there by helicopter?
Because he was in pain, he wasscared, and he looked at him and
said, You're not that special,you'll go by car.
So my mom and dad.
My mom and dad became speed dialover the next few years that we
had stuff to go through.
His mom and dad met us there.
(22:20):
Um Dr.
Einhorn had developed theprotocol for testicular cancer.
Um, boys 18 to 34 are who aremost susceptible.
Normal man's HCG count is threeto five, and Rich's was over
26,000.
So he had been bailing hay formy dad in June.
(22:44):
He thought he had a groininjury, and men don't like to go
to the doctor, and their pride,I don't know how you all are,
but their pride is a fiercething.
He just said, Oh, it's nothing,it'll get better.
And then his back startedhurting.
Well, he had a football-sizedtumor in his abdomen and
softball-sized tumors on hislungs.
(23:05):
So he was terminal at thebeginning.
Ten years before, there was zerochance of making it.
But because of Dr.
Einhorn and his protocol, he itwas 98% cure rate.
But you had to go through chemoto shrink down everything before
you can have surgery to remove.
SPEAKER_04 (23:24):
And throughout this time, you were working as a
school teacher?
SPEAKER_00 (23:27):
And I well, the first that we went to IU, I
packed for three weeks becausethey couldn't tell me how long I
would be there.
But we were there a week becausethe chemo was so hard on his
kidneys he had to be on IV.
And we found out it would be aweek at a time when we were
there.
Normally they wait um a month ortwo.
(23:47):
But because Rich was so bad, hiswas pushed up to every two
weeks.
SPEAKER_04 (23:51):
How was his attitude throughout that process?
SPEAKER_00 (23:54):
You know, he fought in Vietnam.
He was a fighter from thebeginning, and he sat there in
his bed and said, you know, Icould have had all the money in
the world, and I'd still behere.
And how lucky we are to be 60miles from Dr.
Einhorn.
So that was a definite switch inhis thinking about money and
(24:15):
just blessed to be alive andhave hope that they were going
to take care of this.
Um, so I went to stay with himone night and then come back and
teach and stay with the girlsand then went teach and then
went back to with him, so thatwas kind of the rotation I had.
But my parents were very goodto, you know, fill in, and his
(24:38):
parents helped with the girls inthe summer when they didn't have
school because they were inkindergarten in second grade, I
guess.
Preschool maybe in second grade.
It was hard, and people haveasked, how did you get through
that?
And I look back now and justsay, there's no way we could
have gotten through it withoutGod being there with us.
(24:59):
He had his first surgery, andthe next day we were going to
Indianapolis.
Well, that night I went home tobe with the girls because I
didn't know how long I would bethere, and I had to stop and get
gas.
And I just stopped and put myhead on the steering wheel and I
said, I am weak.
I'm weary.
We're two days into this.
I can't do this.
I don't know how long I satthere.
(25:21):
Uh I just was bone-tired.
I got out, filled the car, wentin and paid, came out, and while
I was walking to my car, I feltlike I'd slept.
God had given me a reciprocalpeace.
(25:42):
I said, okay, God, we're gonnado this.
Um so you know, you you knew hewas with you.
He didn't promise us lifewithout pain.
He didn't promise all blueskies.
Um Rich never once said, why me?
He always said, Why not me?
(26:03):
I'm no different than anybodyelse.
He had four younger brothers.
He went to Vietnam hoping hisbrothers wouldn't have to go.
He said, Baby, if I go throughcancer, they wouldn't have to.
You know, it was his way ofthinking.
And one protocol of four weekswas not enough.
They tested his blood, he stillhad, so he had to go through
(26:26):
another round of four weeks.
That March in 82, I was atschool and I came to get him.
He was going to be released thatday.
And he said, it was thestrangest thing.
Grapple Dixon was here and hesaid, Rich, you're gonna be
okay.
It was like he was on the otherside of a curtain.
He said, It was really odd.
(26:47):
I mean, I knew he was there.
I said, Well, that is odd, butyou know, I'm sure he's thinking
about you.
We went home, he died thatafternoon about that time.
And you talk about God moments,and Rich adored him.
And he wasn't strong enough tobe a pole bearer, but he was an
(27:09):
honorary and walked with acasket.
Um, so God was with us in somany ways.
Um he he got well enough andwent back to teaching.
Um the girls were busy inschool, I was busy in school,
life was good, you know.
(27:32):
Well, let me back up.
He his grandpa died in March.
In June, I woke up to the bedshaking.
I thought we were having anearthquake.
I flipped on the light and itwas rich.
He was having a seizure.
He had a brain tumor where thechemo doesn't cross the brain
(27:56):
barrier, so some cells hadgotten through, and he had a
tumor on the brain.
So we were headed back to uh uhIU Med Center.
SPEAKER_04 (28:07):
This was how long after life returned to normal, a
little bit?
SPEAKER_00 (28:10):
Well, this was before normal.
Before I forgot you I forgotthis one.
Yeah.
This was June before he wentback to work in October.
Um So we went to IU Med Centeron a Thursday.
His surgeon came in on Fridaymorning, and he said, I'm the
best surgeon there is.
(28:31):
I'll take care of you.
And when he walked out, I said,Boy, he was kind of cocky.
And Rich says, if I'm havingbrain surgery, I want the best
surgeon.
Um and he also reminded, he alsosaid, Listen, I had a nurse that
lived up there at Weaver'sPopcorn, and she always brought
me test popcorn.
And Rich had taught up there.
(28:51):
He said, I'll bring you testpopcorn.
That'll be part of my bill.
I said, So we'll have it onMonday.
And he said, Oh no, Rich hasbeen through too much.
We're having it.
I'm gonna come back on Saturday,which they don't usually do
surgery on Saturday.
So Saturday morning we get readyfor the surgery, and the lights
went out, the electricity wasoff at IU Med Center, and I'm
(29:14):
going to the nurse, so we're nothaving it.
What's happening?
And now I'm thinking, okay, thisis a bad sign.
We shouldn't be having this.
And and she said, No, we havegenerators, they just haven't
kicked in yet.
So but you always have doubts.
Oh, yeah.
Even though you feel strong inyour faith, Satan doesn't give
(29:35):
up on you.
unknown (29:36):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (29:36):
There was one time when he was having it, it was
bad, and I was coming home onsixty nine, and it was like
Satan was in my ear saying, He'snot gonna make it.
He's not gonna make it.
And I'm pounding the dash of thecar saying, Get out of here.
I know he's gonna make it.
I'm not listening to you.
And I've wondered since whysomebody didn't report me to the
(29:57):
police as a crazy woman drivingme out sixty nine.
So then he was able to teach.
Oh the the brain surgery.
45 minutes they came to get me.
Now it was 13 hours when theyremoved the tumors from his lung
and abdomen, two teams.
(30:17):
45 minutes they came and saidhe's ready.
And I knew that they couldn'tget it all in 45 minutes.
And I was kind of crying, andhis mom and brothers and my
parents were there.
So I went back to recovery tosee him, and Dr.
Einhorn was coming out as I wasgoing in.
And I said, So you couldn't getit all.
(30:37):
And he said, Oh no, we got itall.
He said, Richard, you know howhe is.
It was in a sack, protected, soit couldn't, his body had made a
sack, so cells couldn't go out,and it was on the surface of the
brain, so we could just liftthat sack out and be done.
And I said, Oh, thank you foralways taking care of him.
(30:59):
And he said, Shirley, I haven'tdone anything.
Rich has always had a higherpower.
unknown (31:04):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (31:05):
And for a doctor to say that.
So when I got back there, he hada turban on his head and a drain
tube, and he was watching theWorld Series or some baseball
game.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_04 (31:16):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
That's amazing, amazing.
So then life goes back tonormal.
SPEAKER_00 (31:21):
Then life goes back to normal, and he taught, and
well, I don't know that we hadnormal.
He had um a detached retina thatthe doctor missed.
In April, we were sitting inchurch and he said, I can't, I
can't see, I can't see theminister's top half.
I said, Oh, go ahead, horse andaround, pay attention.
(31:43):
And then a little bit later hesaid, I can't see the right
half.
So we went into the doctor inApril.
He couldn't find anything wrong.
We went back in May, we wentback in June.
Rich is complaining.
So we get him some PTSTpost-traumatic stress disorder
counseling, thinking, you know,Rich has always had uh
(32:05):
survivor's guilt from comingback in Vietnam and and not
being physically wounded.
But I thought his was more, am Igonna have cancer again?
So finally in September he said,I have to I have to go again to
the doctor.
(32:25):
The doctor had the Saturdayappointments, he said, I'll give
you 15 minutes of counseling,but I know there's nothing
wrong.
A new doctor walked in who had aspecial magnifying, he had a
torn retina all that time.
And they called me.
I was at a section regionalvolleyball game at Westdown.
(32:48):
They called the school, they gota hold of me.
I went in thinking he's gonna bejust one mess.
And he was so happy, he said,I'm not crazy.
There really is something wrong.
So we had that, he had a buckledretina, uh, he developed
Parkinson's disease from theysaid, all that he'd been
(33:09):
through.
Not it's it wasn't a typicalParkinson's, but he was started
losing balance and he had towalk with a walker, and that was
hard on him.
The pride thing of needing awalker and then a wheelchair.
And people often talked to meover him when he was in the
(33:30):
wheelchair, and they didn'trealize what they were doing,
and that was hard.
So he left teaching in 95 andwas doing fairly well, but had
some memory issues from thewhere his tumor was is the front
lobo where he planning and thatkind of thing.
(33:53):
We went back in April of 2005 tothe hospital because he was
falling.
And they found he had a tumor onthe brainstem.
And you can't do anything with atumor on the brain stem, you
can't biopsy it, you can'tremove it.
It was not testicular comingback because the blood work was
fine.
(34:13):
So here we go.
SPEAKER_04 (34:15):
What were you thinking then?
SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
I was thinking that he would have to be in a nursing
home or I quit teaching becausehe couldn't be left alone.
So we had uh two nurses staywith him, a veteran came one
day, and the school let me stayhome two days to finish school.
I didn't want him to go to anursing home, and he didn't want
me to quit teaching because heknew I loved it.
(34:40):
That was in April when he camehome.
School ended the end of May.
He died the 8th of June.
I think he gave up because heknew it was hard.
And it was hard for him.
So we had um when he came home,we had a hospital bed put in our
bedroom and um that final so hecould talk on Friday, and his
(35:07):
brothers had all been there.
And in the middle of the nighthe woke me up and I I said, It's
two o'clock in the morning,you've got to go to sleep.
You know, I went back to bed andhe rattled the rails again.
And I went over and I said, Areyou okay?
And he just looked at me and Isaid, Are you scared?
And I crawled in bed with him.
(35:28):
And he said, Would you promiseme three things?
I said, I'll promise youanything.
He said, When I'm gone, will youmow under my Chevy?
You know how bad it looks tohave weeds under your truck of
all the things for him to thinkabout.
I said, I'll mow, I'll mow underyour red Chevy.
Will you put a flag on my grave?
(35:50):
I don't want flowers.
I want an American flag.
I will do that.
And he said, Will you be happy?
I said, I will be happy.
He said, You're a strong person.
I know you'll make it.
So that was Thursday, Friday.
Sunday he wasn't talking.
(36:11):
Hospice had been called in.
They were gonna bring in aVietnam medic who was used to
finding veins because they saidhe was dehydrated.
And then they wanted to take himback to the hospital and hydrate
him.
And I said, Would you promise methat I can bring him home if he
goes to the hospital?
And she said, I can't promisethat they'll release him.
(36:33):
And he said when we came home,don't take me back.
They can't do anything, don'ttake me back.
So the the Vietnam medic came,the service veteran who had
fought in Vietnam came and hesaid he was already in the dying
process, and if you try andrehibrate rehydrate him, it
would make everything worse.
(36:54):
So he he passed away and we hadthe funeral, and Rich wanted to
be in s buried in southernIndiana, so it's a three-hour
drive to the cemetery.
But there are, I don't know,five Thacker men all in a row
that had served.
And he wanted to be there withthem.
(37:15):
So I had school, I was stillteaching, and I had school, and
you know, grieving is on and offagain.
You just you don't ever finishit.
It just comes and goes.
And the hole in your heart nevermends, and time doesn't make it
better.
You just learn to live with it.
(37:37):
Um so I love this man since Iwas 14.
It it was hard not to have himwith me and help me make
decisions, and he got to walk.
The youngest one got marriedfirst.
He got to walk her down theaisle, but he was gone when the
second one got married.
SPEAKER_04 (37:57):
Thank you for sharing all that.
SPEAKER_00 (37:59):
I mean, that's um I wouldn't be standing here if it
wasn't for God's grace, hismercy, his love, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (38:10):
It's it's so powerful just to, you know, that
your voice is what gets me.
You know, it's just so calming,and you know, I can only imagine
the pain and the the fear andthe doubt that you felt
throughout you know, since beinga 10-year-old little girl.
One thing you didn't hit on wasthis this book of poetry that
(38:32):
you wrote called The WindBeneath the Pines.
Can you talk about that a littlebit?
Because this is one this iswhere you got me.
SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
Yeah.
At the end of our house, heplanted pine trees all over our
property.
And at the end of the house, wehad pine trees.
And Rich would love to have hislounge chair out there and rest,
and he had his straw hat overhis eyes, and the cat would be
on his belly, and he'd say,Won't you come and sit with me?
(39:00):
And I said, But I've gotlaundry, I've got school, I've
got, you know, and it wasn'tthat I didn't want to be there,
I just didn't think I had timethat I could.
But the last year, and I didn'tknow it was the last summer, I
went out with him.
And it was the most peaceful.
There is a breeze that blows inpine trees that makes a noise
(39:22):
like no other.
And so I sat with him and it waslike peace and and calmness.
And he said, I want you to writea book and we'll call and call
it Wind Beneath the Pines.
I wasn't even writing then.
I didn't start writing untilafter he died.
Um, I wanted to write his storyfor hospice, is why I started.
(39:45):
But he said, you know, when wesit on grandpa's porch or we sit
around the kitchen table and allthose stories start floating
around, and they're not in anyorder, it's just short stories.
And he said you could have achapter on our family, and a
chapter on church and faith, anda chapter on school kids.
(40:07):
So after I started writing, Ialways had in mind I would do
that, and they would be shortstories.
Philip Gawley has porch tales,and they're just short quips.
That's what it was going to be.
But then I loved poetry, and soI was afraid I was gonna die and
not have it done, and I had toget it done.
(40:28):
So I I wrote poetry.
And I I'm always looking forpoems, poetry that kids can do
because I teach kids still.
I tutor and uh I help mydaughter with the comp class of
fourth and fifth graders, and Iwant she does not like poetry,
by the way.
I I'm called in for the poetry,and I want them to know because
(40:52):
you can write a lot in a littleamount of space, and it says a
lot, and I want the kids to beable to write their stories.
So I wrote the first story,Richard's hospice.
I wrote my story next becauseI'd carried it around so long,
(41:13):
and I don't think I'd been toldyou can't write other things
until you write the hardstories.
So so it's a poetry book.
SPEAKER_04 (41:22):
Well, and here's here's why it hit me, because
I've only I've only ever told mmy wife this.
I I've always told her, I, youknow, if I'm ever on my
deathbed, which I will besomeday, but if I'm if I'm
blessed enough to be in thatposition and be at home, I have
always told her, sit me in frontof the window where there's a
nice cool breeze that I canfeel, because at our home we've
(41:44):
got pine trees to the west, andthere's always a breeze.
And that is my uh comfort zoneis sitting in front of a window
or sitting in a spot under ashade tree where I feel that
breeze.
So when you told me that, it waslike, holy cow, you know, and
here you wrote a book about it.
So that was the big connectionfor me.
(42:04):
I I want to read the back coverof this book.
It says, In the shade of thepine trees, the whisper of the
wind blowing through thebranches sounds like the
conversations on the front porchand the remembrances shared by
those gathered around thekitchen table.
You need to write the stories,Shirley's husband said as he sat
(42:25):
near the trees.
The tales about life.
So Shirley did.
SPEAKER_00 (42:31):
So in this, I have six different kinds of poetry,
and I used rich to write in theend at the back all the
different kinds.
Six-word poems.
Can you imagine saying anythingwith just six words?
But free verse.
I hated washing dishes.
(42:52):
I declared I would marry someonerich and buy paper plates.
Mom laughed when I married Rich.
My friend, we went, we met inchurch, we played volleyball and
softball.
At 14, I knew he was the guy Godgave me.
He was 17 and oh so shy.
When he went to the Air Forceand was homesick, I wrote him.
(43:14):
Time, absence, our love grewthrough those letters, prayers
as he fought in Vietnam.
Our Vietnam soldiers enduredridicule when they came home.
Rich was covered with survivors'guilt.
We relied on our faith and love,two young kids, married, and
became one.
We learned life together andbecame parents of two daughters,
(43:34):
worked hard for our teachingcareers.
Nine years after the wedding,another battle began.
Testicular cancer spread to hisabdomen, lugs, and brain.
Rich became a soldier again,this time in God's army.
He fought a good fight.
He ran the face race withpatients.
Problems came, torn retina,buckled retina, PTSD,
(43:56):
Parkinson's damage fromchemotherapy.
He always bounced back until hedidn't.
A tumor on the brainstemcouldn't be treated.
The doctor said, Go home andlive the rest of your days.
There is nothing more we can do.
I believe he gave up knowing itwas getting hard for me.
I held his hand where while hetook his last three breaths.
(44:17):
He soared away with the angel,strong again and walking tall.
No more sickness and sadness.
Fearless he launched away.
My love, my friend, my nortnorthern star.
One day, one day we'll walk thestreets of heaven together.
SPEAKER_04 (44:35):
And that's The Wind Beneath the Pines, poetry by
Shirley Thacker.
You can get this, and we'llwe'll link this on the website.
We'll link it at the bottom ofthe YouTube and everywhere for
the podcast, so those of you uhcan support.
SPEAKER_00 (44:50):
So when I started writing, I felt it was God
giving me the gift to write.
And so if God gives you atalent, you're not supposed to
keep them.
You're supposed to give themaway.
I keep none of the money from mybooks.
I've supported um CancerResearch and Dr.
Einhorn, the um Writer Path inHagerstown, um teachers at our
(45:14):
school, um homeless veterans,Latchkey at our school, and the
red Chevy.
The red Chevy is abouteverything Rich our grandson
said when he died.
AJ in the book said, why didn'tPap take his red Chevy to
(45:34):
heaven?
He really said that.
And I said, Well, he was kindand he left it because he knew
we would need it.
That money was going to go towounded warriors because Rich
was a vet.
In the meantime, I'd sent it tothe publisher.
A 19-year-old boy from Westdale,who was a middle school football
(45:57):
coach, had been to a wedding,helped clean up, coming home
late at night, went off theroad.
He called his mom, she said,We'll come.
She talked to him the whole way,he wasn't hurt, and he said, She
said, We're almost there.
And he got out of the car tomeet them.
And he stepped on a live wireand was killed.
(46:18):
So the money from that book innight in 2018 went to Alex
Collins um football scholarship.
His mom, and I forgot that, umAnother God moment.
She wrote a song and I fell inlove with it.
(46:39):
I got the C D and I took it hometo play it for Rich.
He he cried.
I played it through three times.
We just sat there and criedabout thanking God for all
you've brought us through.
And he said, How did she knowour story?
Well, it wasn't her our story,it was her story.
But she sang that for me with uhat Rich's funeral.
SPEAKER_04 (47:00):
Wow.
And so how many books have youwritten?
I've got a whole stack here.
SPEAKER_00 (47:04):
Seven, I think.
SPEAKER_04 (47:05):
Seven.
So seven books, a lot ofchildren's books.
Yes.
Um and again, we'll link allthese and there, you know, so
that people can um I don't know,maybe we can purchase them.
There's two, four, three.
I kind of lost count.
That's awesome.
There's eight, yeah.
And you said there's one that'snot a big one.
There's one more, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
So a lot of them are on Amazon and then Kids at Heart
Publishing in uh Cambridge Citydid the others, but it's
amazing.
SPEAKER_04 (47:31):
And you wrote your story from from when you were
ten?
SPEAKER_00 (47:35):
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_04 (47:36):
How long did you keep that in before you actually
told uh you you obviously toldRich when he asked you to marry
him?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (47:42):
But beyond that, when the girls were in middle
school, Kim came home one dayand said, I don't think anybody
would know if I wasn't here.
I'm not a sports person, I'm notin the clubs, I don't date
anyone, I don't drink, I don'ttell foul stor jokes, I'm just
(48:04):
nobody.
So I pulled out my little pieceof paper that they had written
on that I had saved all thoseyears, and I told them.
And about that time I told momand dad.
SPEAKER_04 (48:20):
How did they react?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
They just they couldn't believe it, you know.
Dad said, You should have, youshould have told us.
I said, I thought he would killyou.
You know, so I didn't.
SPEAKER_04 (48:32):
So what advice would you have for someone who may be
in that same situation rightnow?
SPEAKER_00 (48:38):
If anyone tells you don't tell, you tell, because
nobody has that right over youto tell you not to tell
something.
Um if you feel like you'renobody, know that you are.
You are somebody made special.
We're wonderfully, marvelouslymade by our God who made the
(48:59):
earth, the heavens.
You're an heir in his kingdom.
How could you not be nothing?
You are somebody.
Um to anyone that's battling anykind of illness, you just have
to hold on.
The pain ends.
That little boy on Idol sang asong he wrote, Hope, H-O-P-E.
(49:20):
Hold on, pain ends.
And look for joy.
I think when we are in the midstof sadness, we don't see much
joy.
We don't we may feel blessed,but uh the gratitude that comes
every single day when you seejoy.
(49:40):
And if you if you need to find alittle child that's six or
seven, spend some time becauseyou will find joy immediately
playing and talking and readingwith little kids.
SPEAKER_04 (49:52):
Absolutely.
Last question If you could siton a park bench and have a
conversation with someone livingor deceased, who would it be and
why?
SPEAKER_00 (50:03):
Without a doubt, it would be on a park bench beneath
the wind of the pine trees, andit would be rich.
And we would hold hands.
I wouldn't ask him about heaven,but I would say to you, I know
you've seen all that'shappening.
(50:23):
In those seconds, if God had notbeen with me, your children
wouldn't be here, yourgrandchildren wouldn't be here,
and we wouldn't have loved eachother.
So they were saved for a reason,and I would be in his arms one
more time.
SPEAKER_04 (50:44):
Wow.
There you go, Ben.
SPEAKER_03 (50:47):
Powerful.
You gripped me right from therip because my son, uh, Cy, he's
10.
And then the second instancethat you had with seventh
grader, I have another sonthat's in seventh grade, and
just thinking about, you know,some of the things that you
weren't able to share with yourparents.
And those things that us asparents don't think about, you
(51:08):
know, really talking to yourkids about.
It's just uh it was reallyeye-opening, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (51:14):
They don't always tell, they don't always know how
to say, and if you have boys, Imean you have to start talking
about um exam, self-exam, justlike the girls do for a breast.
You have to do that.
Uh, because you never think it'sgonna happen to you.
If Rich had gone in June, hewouldn't have had such
extensive.
If you get it early, men withpride that don't want to go to
(51:37):
the doctor need to nip it in thebud and go early.
Um, you know, with the story Iwrote about my story, it's got a
Christmas tree on the front, butit's not billed as a Christmas
story.
And the reason I did that wasbecause it was in October when
(51:57):
it happened.
And so on Christmas, I sat inour living room.
They were all in the kitchen butme.
The lights of the Christmastree.
I thought, man, God, why did yousave me?
I don't know.
What have I ever done?
Chris Christofferson's song,what have I ever done to deserve
one, even one of the blessings Ihave?
(52:21):
But I'm glad you did.
And I just, when we got marriedand had our first Christmas,
Rich knew that how much itmeant.
We spent hours finding theperfect Christmas tree.
Let me just say.
And so Jonathan Bao is fromYorktown and he's an artist at
Taylor.
He did the illustrations.
So when I got them for approval,I looked at the back page and I
(52:44):
said, Jonathan, you gave meangels.
And he said, I don't know whatyou're talking about.
I said, You put angels in thelight bulbs.
He said, No, I didn't.
I said, I see angels.
I see angels.
SPEAKER_04 (52:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:56):
And that wasn't intentional.
SPEAKER_04 (52:58):
Oh.
That's pretty awesome.
It's an amazing story, and Ican't say thank you enough for
being so open and honest andvulnerable with it, because um
it's not an easy thing to do,but I think it's an important
thing to do.
SPEAKER_00 (53:16):
If I said, why did God save me and not others?
Robin Williams had far moremoney than me to help people,
then it I must have gone throughit for a reason.
And I really think it's to sharewith kids.
It's to share with others tohelp them go through.
(53:37):
So thank you for letting me havea platform to do that.
SPEAKER_04 (53:40):
Yeah, you're you're amazing.
You're amazing.
Your story's amazing, your yourpositive attitude, um, your
voice.
Uh again, I I feel mygrandmother.
I really do.
It's it's uh it's very touching,and and I know that there are
many of you out there who haveheard this story and have been
touched in some way, shape, orform, whether it's for maybe a
(54:03):
similar battle as as a younggirl going through that.
Maybe it's uh, you know, uh aloved one who's was sick, and uh
maybe they're going through itright now.
But as we've learned, the painwill end.
Yeah, life will continue to goon, yeah.
And as long as you remainpositive and you try to find the
(54:25):
good in it, everything will beokay.
SPEAKER_02 (54:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (54:27):
And have faith.
SPEAKER_00 (54:28):
Have faith.
Know your blessings.
God loves us and look for thejoy.
I hope you put my email addresson, and anybody that wants to
write their story to me, I'd behappy to read it.
SPEAKER_04 (54:42):
Absolutely.
Yeah, if you're okay with that,we'll do that.
That way, if you they want toreach out and um, you know,
share whatever story or ask aquestion.
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's awesome.
All right, everybody.
Thank you again for your earsand your support.
Surely thank you again formaking the trek and go out and
be tempered.
SPEAKER_01 (55:00):
My name is Alice.
This is what I've got to do.
SPEAKER_04 (55:04):
Thanks, Allie.
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service and selection you'll getfrom Catrance Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatrins come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom shower doorsand many other products and
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The 962-1636, locally owned withlocal employees for nearly 30
(55:26):
years.
Hey, do you want to catch everyepisode live?
As it's being recorded, welcomeon to Patreon.com slash
meetemple for exclusive footage,behind the scenes, photos, and
the live recording as it takesplace.
Go to patreon.com slashmeetemple.
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