BeTempered Episode 75 - What Do You Do After the Final Goodbye? Rebuilding through faith one step at a time.

When someone says, “Brian’s dead,” life divides into a before and an after. For Chuck Winings, it divided twice. What began as an ordinary Super Bowl Sunday became a season of heartbreaking loss. First came the passing of his father. Soon after came the fight no family is ever ready for, when his wife Rhonda was diagnosed with triple negative metastatic breast cancer. On BeTempered, hosted by Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr, Chuck opens his heart and tells the story from the very beginning: high school sweethearts, a surprise third child, years spent teaching and coaching, and the long road of hospitals, hope, and hard decisions.

This conversation takes you inside the moments most people never see. Chuck talks about the diagnosis delivered on a blank sheet of paper, the infusion days filled with silent prayers, and the moment the word “curable” slipped away. Through it all, Rhonda remained a teacher. She wrote notes for the future, made plans for the children, and showed what love looks like when it prepares to let go. Chuck explains why honesty with his kids mattered more than pretending to be strong, and how trust was built by telling the truth, even when it hurt.

He shares how their community stepped in, not with answers, but with presence. Meals left at the door. Friends who sat in silence. Small signs that felt like messages from above. A lone cardinal on a beach fence. A quiet breeze when he needed one most. These moments stitched a fragile thread of comfort through unbearable days.

You will hear about the strength of his children. Theo calling every day just to check in. Gavin choosing to wear his mother’s number eight and making a play he still believes she was part of. Emma asking simple questions that cut straight through the noise of adult grief. These stories are not about tragedy, but about the proof that love continues in those who remain.

We also talk about the part of loss no one prepares you for. The mornings that feel like climbing out of concrete. The day Chuck realized he was stuck in a hole. The first walk he took just to breathe. The decision to speak goals out loud, including 75 Hard, because sometimes choosing discipline is the only way to choose life again.

This episode is not about having the right words. It is about standing when your legs shake. It is about fathers trying to be anchors for their children when they feel like they are drifting. It is about carrying a legacy forward without letting it crush you. If you have ever whispered, I am not okay, or wished someone would simply check on you, this conversation is a hand on your shoulder.

If this story reached you, do not carry it alone. Share it with someone who needs proof that hope can survive heartbreak. Subscribe, leave a review, and tell us what keeps you going when life hits hardest.

Support and connect at Patreon.com/BeTempered 

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_06 (00:04):
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SPEAKER_05 (00:29):
I want to share something that's become a big

part of the BTemfered mission: Patreon. (00:31):
undefined
Now, if you've never used itbefore, Patreon is a platform
where we can build communitytogether.
It's not just about supportingthe podcast, it's about having a
space where we can connect on adeeper level, encourage one
another, and walk this journeyof faith, resilience, and
perseverance side by side.

(00:52):
Here's how it works.
You can join as a free memberand get access to daily posts,
behind-the-scenes updates,encouragement, and some things I
don't always put out on otherplatforms.
And if you feel called tosupport the mission financially,
there are different levels whereyou can do that too.
That support helps us keepproducing the podcasts, creating
gear, hosting events, andsharing stories that we believe

(01:16):
can truly impact lives.
And here's the cool part.
Patreon has a free app you candownload right on your phone.
It works just like Facebook orInstagram, but it's built
specifically for our community.
You'll be able to scroll throughposts, watch videos, listen to
content, and interact withothers who are on the same
journey.
At the end of the day, thisisn't just about content, it's

(01:36):
about connection.
It's about building somethingtogether.
Not just me and men putting outepisodes, but a family of people
committed to growing strongerthrough real stories and real
faith.
So whether you just want to hopon as a free member or you feel
called to support in a biggerway, Patreon is the door into
that community.
Because at the heart of BeTempered has always been simple.

(01:59):
Real stories, raw truth,resilient faith, so that even
one person out there that hearswhat they need to hear, and
Patreon helps make thatpossible.

SPEAKER_06 (02:09):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.

SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips, and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.

SPEAKER_06 (02:22):
We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.

SPEAKER_03 (02:29):
This is Be Tempered.

SPEAKER_06 (02:30):
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast, episode number 70.

SPEAKER_03 (02:35):
We'll go five.
75.

SPEAKER_06 (02:36):
Good guess, Ben.
Thank you.
Good guess.
We were just talking hereearlier how uniquely things work
out, you know, when you're notnecessarily planning on a
certain guest or an individualto come in and share their
story.
How sometimes things justhappen.
And that's that's today.

(02:58):
This the story today is one Iknew part of, not in the depth
that we're going to hear it andnot in the depth that I heard
last week.
But um it is a powerful story.
I think it's one that a lot ofpeople can relate to.
And um I'm excited for ChuckWinings to be with us here today

(03:18):
on the Be Tempered Podcast.
So welcome, Chuck.

SPEAKER_02 (03:21):
Welcome, Chuck.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 (03:24):
So, Chuck, I I don't know if we want to start.
I we want to start off with yourwith your story growing up, but
I kind of would like to startoff how things have transpired
the last couple weeks.
Because I think that kind ofthat kind of sets everything up,
and then we'll get into yourstory.
So if you would maybe talk abouta couple Fridays ago, kind of
how how that day transpired foryou, and that'll lead to where

(03:45):
we're at today.

SPEAKER_04 (03:46):
Yeah.
Well, first of all, thank youguys for having me.
Incredible platform you guyshave.
Um yeah, let uh two Fridays ago,um, I was in in the morning, I
was scrolling through Facebook,waiting on Ember to get up out
of bed, and fell upon yourbrother's uh Facebook message
that shared um Sean's story ofepisode you know, challenge you

(04:11):
to watch this uh episode 71.
So I'm like, oh listen, give ita listen.
If it's from Jeff, it's it'sgreat.
So I you know turn it on on myway to work and and I listened
to it, and you know, my tragedyand and trauma kind of later in
life, and his was much younger,so it really didn't correlate,

(04:32):
but just the the name of hisbook resonated with me of
turning pain into purpose.
And I've struggled with tryingto find a purpose, you know.
Like I told you last Friday, Ifeel like a dad driving a car
with my three most prizedpossessions in the back seat,
just trying not to wreck.

(04:52):
Stay inside the lines, juststeer them where they think they
need I think they need to go.
So yeah, it was just that, youknow, what is my purpose?
And uh towards the end of thepodcast, I was sitting in the in
the parking lot of an account ofmine, and I had a a former
employee of mine who still worksfor for free to lay but doesn't

(05:17):
work under me anymore.
And he just sent me a text, youknow, can you call me?
Are you working?
Can you call me?
So I finished the podcast, gavehim a call, and he was
struggling.
And he just told me, you know, Ihad nowhere else to turn.
I I just thought to call you.
And we talked.

(05:37):
And you know, he explained whatwas kind of going on, and um and
I may not have helped him in hisyou know mental state or
whatever, but I helped him gettime off of work.
So I felt like I helped him.
And it felt amazing.
Like it was great.
Like, well then maybe is this mypurpose?

(06:00):
Do I want to help people?
So I that that day I watchedmultiple um podcasts.
I watched Matt Roberts's andyour wife's, and I had seen your
dads before.
Um so yeah, just you know, I gotto the football game that Friday
night and uh saw Ben, like I doevery every home game, you know,

(06:23):
and uh I just thanked him.
Like it took a lot for me to,you know, get that out and thank
you for what you guys are doinghere.
Like it's amazing, you know,Sean's story.
Maybe not so much the story, butjust the title of the book,
Purpose, Purpose, Purpose.
And uh it's just so happenedthat you walked up on us, and I
was able to had the opportunityto thank you.

(06:45):
So uh yeah, it was I felt reallygood.
Um and those days don't comevery often.
And uh so yeah, it was a reallygood, really good weekend.
Um we did some things as youknow as a family, and my mom was
in town.
And uh you had reached out onMonday about possibly you know,

(07:08):
sitting down, no pressure, justtell your story, talk, let me
see if I can help you.
Um, and maybe the podcast wouldbe something that you could
could do.
And uh like yeah, let's continueon with that.
So, yeah, we met Friday, and uhwe're here now.

SPEAKER_06 (07:29):
Yeah.
Well, and here's what I'll tellyou.
You know, Chuck, I obviouslybeing in from the same community
and and watching uh the boysyour boys grow up and and
actually coaching Emrah, I thinka year or two and and some YAMCA
basketball, you know, I I knewyou, family, um, but didn't
really know you.

unknown (07:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (07:50):
And so when you came into the office on Friday, I
didn't know what to expect.
And it, you know, for me, that'sone of the things I'm trying to
navigate through this wholeprocess is, you know, I want to
get to know the person,especially if I don't really
know them.
Um, but I don't want to bepushy.
You know, I don't, I don't, youknow, and it bends the same way.
Like we don't want to come offto where like you've got an

(08:13):
amazing story, you need to tellit.
Yeah, you know, I I want it tobe, you know, this is this is
kind of therapy, right?
It it's therapy for the persontelling their story, but like I
told you on Friday, this is alsoan opportunity for you to cement
your legacy for futuregenerations.
You know, great grandkids, greatgreat-grandkids are gonna be

(08:35):
able to go back, maybe in a timeof their struggle, something
that they're dealing with.
This will be out there forever,and they're gonna be able to go
back and hear about greatgrandpa, great grandma, hear
that story and see me at thatlegacy.
So, you know, I think it was, Ithink you were in the office for
two and a half hours.
Yeah.
And it was amazing.

(08:56):
It was an amazing time to to sitand to listen and to kind of
watch you, your transformation,and and you know, to see you,
your shoulders kind of drop andrelax.
I think when when everything waswhen you got everything out, and
I'm like, okay, like this, thisis what it's all about.
So I appreciate you um I Iappreciate you having the

(09:19):
strength to come up and thankBen and I at the football game,
because quite honestly, wewouldn't be sitting here if you
didn't do that.
So thank you for doing that.
So all right.
Now, starting from thebeginning, because I think uh,
you know, we like to heareverybody's story growing up
because I think that that paintsa picture.
So talk about what life was likefor you growing up as a kid.

SPEAKER_04 (09:40):
Yeah.
Uh grew up in Lima, Ohio, whichuh I've always had roots with
Eaton.
Uh my grandparents were here.
Um matter of fact, how we got toLima was my grandpa uh was
transferred up to the Limatelephone company for two years.
My mom met my dad, and then theymoved back to Eaton.
And in Eaton was always, youknow, come visit grand-grandpa.

(10:02):
Um but yeah, Lima, Ohio um was Iwent to city schools,
kindergarten through secondgrade, I think it was, and then
uh um my we moved to anapartment complex in Bath
Township, which is eventuallywhere I graduated high school
from, Bath High School.
Um, but yeah, third grade wasthere for like half the year,

(10:23):
and then uh my grandparentsretired and moved to Florida.
Well then, you know, my mom'sparents are down there, her
sister's down there, herbrother's down there.
Let's try Florida.
And and growing up, my dadreally never had uh, he just
kind of changed jobs every oncein a while, never really had a a
career is what I call it.

(10:44):
He had jobs.
Um my mom, to this day, everywhat I know of her is working
two jobs, like always worked.
And was always, it seemed likeit was always with the elderly
and helping.
Um so yeah.
I just think when you have jobslike that, you can just quit and

(11:05):
pick up another job when you'redown there.
So we moved down there as afamily.
Um it lasted nine months.
I'm assuming, you know, due tofinances or um not very safe.
We lived in an apartment complexthere one time, it there as
well.
And I remember one day we wereat the pool and I wanted to
drive my bike back to get mybaseball glove because we were

(11:27):
all gonna play baseball.
And I unlocked the door andwalked in.
There's a gentleman therestealing our VCR.

unknown (11:34):
Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_04 (11:37):
So I ran back to the pool, didn't take my bike, I
ran.
I don't think my feet touchedthe floor, just flying.
Somebody broke into our house.
So, of course, we ran home.
Yeah, somebody had ransacked thehouse.
And come to find out when youget older, you think about it,
and it was an apartment on thebottom, two on the bottom, two
on top.

(11:57):
We were the only ones livingthere.
So it was an easy possibly.
Um, but what I take from that ismy dad made us feel safe when it
was over.
Like I think we went and stayedwith grandma and grandpa, he
stayed at the house in case therobber came back, right?

SPEAKER_06 (12:16):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (12:16):
But yeah, moved back in the apartment.
We were fine, felt safe.
Um, I always felt safe as a cutchild.
Uh great parents.
Um, like I said, they workedmaybe not the highest paying
jobs on earth, but uh uh me andmy two sisters never wanted for
anything.
Like we got everything wewanted.
It might not have been Nikes, itcould have been Converse.

(12:37):
Um, but yeah, we um my mom, likeI said, worked two jobs.
My dad always worked and andtried to do everything they
could to get us what we needed.
Um and I always felt like I wasthe the more biggest burden
because I was the one playingbaseball and basketball and
football and it's the cleats,it's the gloves.
We all know that, right?

(12:57):
As have kids now, yeah.
That is a financial burden,yeah, especially for parents
that you know don't make a tonof money.
But yeah, we uh so the Floridathing didn't work out.
We moved back in with my dad'sparents um for a little while,
and I I was um there for fourthgrade, and then we moved out and
moved into a place in in uh BathTownship, back to Bath.

(13:19):
So fifth grade, all the waythrough high school, is I ended
up graduating from Bath.
So it finally felt like that washome to us, Bath.
My sister still lives there,raised her kids there.
Um and we often go back a lot.
I some of my greatest friendsare still from there.
Um great community.
I got five or six buddies thatwe still text and talk about the

(13:40):
glory days.
Right.
Um, but yeah, great town.
Um loved it there.
Um, and as a matter of fact, umRhonda, who soon became my wife
after high school and collegeand stuff, moved to Bath in
seventh grade from Arkansas.
So she did the sports thing, Idid the sports thing, and we

(14:03):
kindly, you know, by it wasApril 16th, 2000, no, 1993.
So it was the end of ourfreshman year.
You know, we had talked, went toparties together, and she
finally circled yes on the note.
So she finally circled yes onApril 16th, 1993.
So yeah, um high school wasgreat.

(14:25):
Um, I was not a great student.
I didn't work hard at it, didn'tlike matter of fact, uh uh my
junior year in baseball, I wasineligible.
And but it didn't phase me.
Like my parents didn't push mefor good grades, I didn't try
for good grades, I just it wasjust who I was, like trying to

(14:46):
you know get in trouble, justwhatever.
Well then Rhonda um went on toplay softball at Bowling Green
State University, um, and I'mlike, I'll just go there,
college.
So, you know, apply and get theletter back, said not accepted.
No one with a 2.2 and a 16 onthe ACT or is going to go to

(15:06):
Bowling Green.

SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (15:08):
All right, well, fine, I'll just go to Finlay.
It's the closest thing to to uhum Bowling Green.
I get that application back.
Well, I need threerecommendations from teachers.
We need to, you know, place andtest.
And I'm like, no, I'm out.
So in Lima is an Ohio Statebranch, I high state Lima

(15:28):
campus, and then there was it'snow called Rhodes College, but
it was Lima Technical College.
So I'm like, okay, I'll just gothere because that's what you
were supposed to do.
Supposed to go to college,right?
Um, well, at that time my dadwas working at a uh a chain
grocery store in in Lima.
Well, it was called Clyde Evans,and I gotten a job there.
Um well back and we played in auh how I got to Fruit Olay.

(15:53):
Um we played in a uh golf leaguetogether.
And when I was little, he playedin it forever, and I'd caddied
for him.
I'd pull his, you know, I'd goout there and get me a drink and
I'd pull his bag on the the golfcart.
And um that's the one thing likeme and my dad were always
together when it came to sports.
Like he was never missed a game,um, helped coach, you know.

(16:15):
Mom would get there when shecould, working two jobs
sometimes is difficult, but Icould always count on dad to be
there.
Um so go off to college, well,go to college down the road.
Yeah.
Um, Rhonda's in bowling green.
And um it happened to um weplayed ones I went, I went from

(16:38):
caddy to partner.
So then we played golf, youknow, every Monday, five
o'clock, Monday, Monday.
And then uh we played golf withtwo guys that worked at Free to
Lay.
And I had seen the one guy atthe group, because I was working
at the grocery store as well,and I would see him, and that's
kind of how we got in the leagueor whatever, and I asked him, I
said, Is Free Lai ever higher?
It's like, yeah.
Next time I saw him, hey, as amatter of fact, on Saturday

(16:59):
they're having an open house.
So interview.
I'll go to that.
So went there, um, wasinterviewed by uh a lady um who
worked in the Dayton facility.
And she's like, Would you beinterested in moving to Dayton?
Because to be honest with you,they already have their guy here
for Philemma.

(17:19):
They're only hiring one, butwe're also here if you'd want to
go to the Dayton facility or theWestchester down in Cincinnati.
I'm like, what do you say in aninterview?
Yeah.
Heck yeah.
Call me in.
Well, that uh turned into thenext day getting a call from
them, you know, kind of doing amore personal interview with
Dayton, blah, blah, blah, whichthen turned into you know, me

(17:42):
finding an apartment inVandalia, and and that's kind of
where it ended up.

SPEAKER_06 (17:48):
Um school, school was over.

SPEAKER_04 (17:51):
Yeah, C's and D's, while we paying for those for
like to see it.
You know, I had thatconversation with Rhonda, you
know.
Um, it was do I continue to goon to college or she's like, no,
go start a life for us.
Go go get a job.
Like, this college thing ain'tfor you.
Yeah, isn't for you.
See, ain't yeah.

(18:12):
Um but yeah, went to work forFree to Lay and was just making
money like crazy, right?
You live on your own, you have alittle small apartment, um, go
out and get the new truck, youknow, and then kind of start
banking money.
Well, like I said, incrediblegrowing up.
My parents were always there,always um, you know, my dad was

(18:34):
always there for me.
Mom, you know, did whatever shecould to get me those converse,
right?
And while living down there, Iremember getting a phone call
from my dad, and uh I could tellit was odd.
And he told me that um me andmom are getting a divorce.
What do you mean?

(18:54):
That doesn't make any sense tome.
And in hindsight, you just seethings as you get older and you
hear stories, and it wasprobably warranted.
Um they just kind of you know,won't get into that.
But they just went separate, andI remember telling my dad on the
phone, I'm like, no.
Like, try.

(19:16):
Like, try, do everything you canto make this work.
Like, don't quit.
A week later he's moving out,and he told me he would.
He was like, Chuck, I'll dowhatever I can.
And then a week later he'smoving out, and they moved to
the divorce thing.
And I held that against my dadforever.
Like, you lied to me.

(19:36):
You quit.
You didn't do everything youcould for us.
That's the first time I everfelt let down from him.
Um in you know, Rhonda gets outof college, we go on to get
married, we have Theo, we'reliving in uh had enough money to
buy a house in Englewood.
And then we're sitting, Rhondawas kind of working as a

(19:57):
waitress at uh a sports barthere in Eaton or in Englewood
and then substitute teaching andstuff and just trying to find a
teaching job.
And I had a cousin um who livedin Eaton had called me and said,
Hey, I know what Rhonda'seducation major is any chance
she's a history teacher.
Yeah, Eaton's hiring three.
So she interviews, um gets thejob very quick.

(20:21):
Um so all right, finally got twofull incomes, you know, Theo's
one or two, it's great.
She becomes the the uh varsitysoftball coach there.
She was JV for one year, becamevarsity softball coach, and then
at a little bit of a strain.
Like I go to work, I pick upTheo from the babysitter, and

(20:42):
it's just me and him all night.
Practice games.

SPEAKER_06 (20:46):
And uh Can I stop you for a second?
Yeah, because I want to I wantto talk about you know, you
glanced over a couple thingswith Rhonda.
But you something that thatstruck me that you remember the
date that she circled yes on thepiece of paper, you know, will
you be my boyfriend?
Yeah.

(21:07):
Um so can you can you back up alittle bit to that?
What why do you remember that?
And then talk about how yourrelationship developed from high
school, then going to college,yeah, and then you go to Dayton,
she's still in college, right?
Can you talk about that a littlebit?

SPEAKER_04 (21:27):
Absolutely.
Um as I you get older, and nowthat I've lost her, those dates
are huge to me.
April 16th, 1993.
Changed my life.
It's who I am now.
Um that's made me be able to dothis podcast, right?
Um I wouldn't have known that atthe age of you know, 14, 15, 16,

(21:50):
whatever it was.
16.
Um but yeah.
Um and then, you know, when shewent to Bolden Green and became
an athlete and was very busy andlike I was 45 minutes away, 45
minutes to 50 minutes away, andI would go up there anytime I
could.
You know, I was up there a lot,you know.

(22:12):
Matter of fact, I spoke in herin her year, eulogy and I said
and went to Bowling Green morethan most students and got away
with it for free.
You know.
So yeah, spent a ton of timethere.
Um, it actually, I think, builtour relationship trust wise, and
you know, um now granted, we hadthe ups and downs.

(22:32):
Sure.
I think we may have had a couplebreakups, but it didn't last
very long.
Like, what am I doing?
It's the best thing that's everhappened to me.
Like, but yeah, um, and thenwhen I moved to Dayton, uh now
it's pretty good jaunt, youknow, hour and 45 minutes, two
hours sometimes.
Um I think a kind of a blessingthat when I started with free

(22:54):
delay, and most people do still,you always have weekdays off.
I was off Tuesday, Wednesday onthe route that I had gotten.
And Monday when I got off work,straight up 75 to Bowling Green.
And there would be multipletimes where I would get up
Thursday morning, three, fouro'clock in the morning, and then
drive back to work, you know.
Um but yeah.

(23:16):
And then on the weekends whenshe was free, she was coming
down.
Um but yeah, we spent a lot oftime together, although it was a
long distance relationship.
Um, but like the trust I had inher and she had in me, and um I
it made it work.

SPEAKER_06 (23:31):
And you so you guys just I mean you knew.
I mean, it sounds like obviouslythere there were some ups and
downs, but you you recognizelike this is the woman that I'm
gonna marry.
100%.

SPEAKER_04 (23:43):
Yeah, that's pretty awesome.
I don't know when it was, butyeah, yeah.
Um there's a story.
I think it was her junior yearthere.
It was my 21st birthday.
It was December of whatever yearthat was.
Um my 21st birthday, she hosts alittle party at her apartment

(24:05):
because I knew all of them, allof her roommates.
Um her one roommate, AmandaAmanda uh Ileano, we're still
super close with.
And her husband, Joe, me and himhave got an incredible
relationship.
Like we go on a uh guys' triparound Finley baseball every
year.
Um, so still super strongrelationship with them.
Um Mandy was the partier, Rhondawasn't.

(24:29):
Rhonda would go out, whatever,but she would much rather just
chill at home.
So we had that's why we kind ofhad a little thing at the
apartment.
And Mandy's like, I'm going out.
I'm going with you.
So I'd go out with her.
And no, I didn't go out withher.
Rhonda told me, she didn't tellme no, but she told me that
probably wouldn't be a greatidea.

(24:49):
Well, then I Mandy had left, andthen uh like, all right, I'm
gonna join uptown.
I'm gonna go find Mandy.
So she had told me where she wasgoing.
So, you know, I remember walkinginto the bar and she was sitting
in the back and she just lookedup and she's like, nah, we're
going home.
I'm feeling the wrath of Rhonda.
You know.
So on our walk back, we passed aChristmas tree farm.

(25:14):
What better way to give Rhonda aChristmas tree?
So I took one.
And I'm carrying it back to theapartment, and she it was a
three-story apartment where shelived in the basement, and I
carried that thing down into thebasement.
And yeah, I mean, it's twoo'clock in the morning.
Like, look, honey, what I gotyou.
And she just looked at me, shegoes, get rid of it.

(25:36):
It's you or the tree.
So I take the tree back upstairsand throw it in the backyard.
Um, and then I woke up the nextmorning to her vacuuming all the
needles up.

SPEAKER_06 (25:49):
Oh, I bet.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (25:51):
So then I think that's when I'm like, all right,
it's time.
Yeah.
Yeah, because uh I ended up inuh asking her to marry me on her
21st birthday the next year inSeptember.

SPEAKER_06 (26:03):
Okay.
That's awesome.
That I I just wanted to kind oflay the groundwork because you
glossed over that date and uhyou know, in my mind, I knew it
was pretty powerful.
So I fast forward back toRhonda's now teaching at Eaton
and she's coaching softball.
Yep.
And you've got young Theo as ababy.
Yep.
Talk about life and and whereyou go from there.

SPEAKER_04 (26:24):
Yeah, we uh I remember sitting down with her
and like, all right, listen, Idon't want to be a single dad
because that's what I felt likeduring the season.
I would go to games to just, butyou know, you go to a game and
it's an hour and a half beforeshe gets home because bus got
from from Bellbrook back toEaton back and she's 10 o'clock
at night.
And so uh I remember tellingher, I said, we're moving to

(26:46):
Eaton, we're moving a lock andgranted I'm getting a boat.
Took me 20 years to get a boat.
Yeah, we moved to uh to Eaton,um, and uh it's where we met the
most powerful people in my lifenow, Chad and Mandy Tinsman.
Kind of our first friendship,you know, Chad was a teacher in

(27:07):
history, uh, and then Mandy wasthe art teacher.
And we just you know had a bondthere.
We did a lot of stuff together.
We raised our kids together, youknow, Reed and Theo.
Oh you know, it's Theo 20 class22, Reed 23, and then Gavin 25.
And you'd think all three ofthem are brothers, you know.

(27:27):
Um, and then uh yeah, we just wegrew up camping, like you know,
three years later we have Gavin.
Um and then you know, it's thefour of us, like we got the
world by the neck, right?
It's the life's good.
Life's good.
We're camping, we're going onvacation, we're going like just

(27:48):
an incredible journey throughlife.
And uh we were or Rhonda'sparents own a condo in Surfside
Beach, which is just south ofMyrtle Beach, and we would go
there frequently.
And uh we were there one year,and Rhonda's thing was

(28:08):
margaritas, she loved them.
Um and we went to Margaritavilleone night, and and we go and
Orange Water and Margarita.
I just don't feel well.
Stomach don't feel great.
Okay, I'm gonna have one.
You know and now I know thisbecause it's over.

(28:32):
On our way home, we stopped atWalgreens because her stomach
hurt.
And uh the next day we go to thepool at the condo, the kids come
back, we eat lunch, and they'reall laying down, and I'm kind of
laying down too, and she goes,Hey, come here.
And uh I walk back to thebathroom and she shows me a

(28:53):
pregnancy test.
This is eight years later, afterGavin?
I said, My first question was,how?
She said, uh, do I really needto explain that to you?
But yeah, um I th we laid in bedand just thought, what just
happened?
And of course, her like abilityto destabilize us and like this

(29:21):
is gonna be great.
I promise you one thing.
Don't ever call her a mistake ormake it a joke about you know
eight years later.
This was our plan, like we'regood.
So yeah, I don't think I talkfor another six hours.
Um but yeah, um, then we hadEmma, which has been you know,

(29:43):
fascinating.
You know, you know, she's nowten, but you know, the you know,
Theo's twenty two and she's tenand um they have a great
relationship.
But uh sometimes Emma thinksTheo's mean and Gavin's mean,
but they'll always give her ahug.
They'll always, you know.
Play catch with her Gavin helpedher with her homework when I

(30:03):
struggled to do math because thestudent thing.
But yeah.
And then life really wentsideways.
It was February 13th, 2022.
Most of you people think of thatas the Bengals going to the

(30:25):
Super Bowl.
Right?
Yeah.
And a typical Super Bowl Sunday,you know, the kids were at home.
You know, Theo had hisgirlfriend over.
We're just hanging out, right?
I put some chicken wings in thesmoker, and uh I remember taking
them out, putting them in acontainer, because it's around

(30:45):
4, 4:30, getting ready to eatbefore the game starts.
And I was washing my hands and Iremember having a hood up
because it probably chilly outor whatever, right?
It's February.
Had a hood up, and I was at theuh kitchen sink looking out over
the water there in Locking Grenand washing my hands from all
the junk on my hands, and I felta hand go over my shoulder, and

(31:06):
and uh Rhonda said to me,Brian's dead.
And I said, My dad?
She said, Yeah.
And I don't even remember thenext 30 minutes to an hour.
Like I collapsed on the floor,like, no, like, what do you
mean?

(31:26):
So, you know, kind of gatheryourself and and uh we asked uh
I asked Ronda to tell Allie togo home and then we told the
boys, and like it just didn'tmake sense.
Obviously, death doesn't, right?
Right.
Um but over the next couplemonths I beat myself up because

(31:48):
I always kept my dad at adistance.
I didn't want him back inbecause he lied to me, right?
You you told me you'd uh doeverything you could to keep our
family together and you youdidn't.
And I kept thinking of that,thinking of that, and thinking
of that, and I'm like, and Ibeat myself up.
Like I had a rough two to threemonths.

(32:10):
Like, now I'm asking thequestion, why was I that way?
Um, but then that quickly,quickly turned um to one April,
early April morning, when uh theroutine was Ronna got up first,
got in the shower, she got out,I got up, got in the shower, and

(32:33):
that day I walked out and shewas just staring at her closet,
which was somewhat abnormal, youknow.
So I made the joke, you know,can't find an outfit today, you
know.
She turned around and and toldme, said, I can't keep this from
you anymore.
I need you to feel something,and it was a lump in her breast.

(32:55):
And I she said, I have I can'tkeep this from you anymore
because I have an appointmenttoday and I need you to go.
What kind of appointment?
Oh, or to the biopsy phasealready.
I truly think she had knew sheobviously was going to doctors
and had seen doctors, and and Ithink she truly hit uh hid that

(33:21):
from me because of what I wasgoing through.
Um she always seemed to put mefirst.
Um, but yeah, um she's like, Ineed you to drive me, we're
going to get a biopsy.
Okay.
So I had tons of questions.
Like, so I called my boss, hey,not gonna be in today.

(33:43):
It was in Troy.
So on the way there, I startedto ask questions, and I'm
thinking to myself, why am Iasking these questions?
Like, it's in fair to her, like,because I wanted to know how far
along are we on this stuff, butI kind of shut my mouth and we
went and she had the biopsy, andas she came out, um, we drove
home, and uh she's like, I havecancer.

(34:09):
Like, once again, why?
How's this happening?
Um very quiet drive home.
But like, okay, so we get aphone call.
And obviously, a girl did thebiopsy, didn't really say you
can't say you have cancer, it'sokay, here's what's next.

(34:30):
So we got a call from Dr.
Vosser's office on the way homeand asked if we could come in,
and we went in and we sat downwith uh the nurse practitioner
there, um, and she told us thatcame back positive, it's breast
cancer.
So timing at maybe next coupledays or so, um, we're going to
go meet with um an oncologist atKettering Medical Center, Cancer

(34:56):
Center.
So we go in, sit down, and youknow, the anxiety and the
nervousness of okay, what do wehave here?
And the doctor came in and satdown.
She had a blank piece of paper,and she literally wrote, All
right, there's three steps tobreast cancer, three different
tentacles, I guess.
I don't sorry, I don't know, tryto forget the phrases.

(35:17):
Right.
Um and she said, the first one,you're negative.
Second one, you're negative, thethird one, you're negative.
It's great.
Except for cancer.
Triple negative metastaticbreast cancer.
Worse you can get.
And she, you know, laid out apath of what we're doing in the

(35:39):
whole, like, I don't even knowwhat she said.
I'm sure Rhonda didn't either.
But we heard the one thing atthe end, she says, this is
curable.
All right, strap on the boots,let's go.
Um, she laid out the path, itwas 13 weeks of chemo, um,
double massectomy, radiation,because it had spread to her

(36:03):
lymph nodes.
And the goal was, you know,during the first chemo portion,
was to stop the growth of thetumors, stop the spread, and
hopefully shrink them.
Then we can do surgery.
All that worked perfectly.
She had surgery.
Um, and normally when you onceyou have something like that,

(36:24):
it's like a six-month periodbefore you can go have another
PET scan and find out if it'sspread or anything like that.
But um one of the nurses theresaid there was a new um type of
way to figure this out faster,blood spinning, some crazy
stuff, right?
So we enrolled in it.

(36:44):
Um I think it was three weeksafter you know the the
dolmosectomy, and she was umhoping to go back to work and
all that good stuff, and sheended up going back to work like
crazy.
Um but she worked but by thatshe worked all the way through
chemo.

(37:04):
Like, and I think I told you,I've told many people you would
have never known she had cancerexcept for the fact she didn't
have hair.
Like, and I think that helpedour kids and me, right?
Work tough as nails.
We got this, you know, when youwrite on that paper and it says
it's curable, but it's a 30%chance of a five-year survival
rate, it didn't matter, we heardcurable, like um acted tough.

(37:29):
And I and I truly believe thatthat helped our kids because
they never really saw theirsuffer.
Um, because she was, you know,every night it was at once they
go to bed, it's you know, I canfinally let my guard down and
relax.
But um the one thing we promisedeach other during that whole

(37:50):
cancer, you know, treatment andand the surgeries and all that
stuff, we were honest with thekids, like told them, here's
what's next, here are the sideeffects, here are how mom's
gonna feel when she's done, youknow, the losing of the
toenails, the losing of thehair, the change in color of
your you know, your skin, andand but we always told them

(38:14):
we're fighting, fighting,fighting, fighting.
And uh you look back at thisnow, and not one of the kids
ever asked, is she gonna beokay?
They knew she was gonna be okay.
So the surgery um comes back.
Her first test came back withcancerous spread.

(38:39):
All right.
Back to the doctor.
Um it spread to the liver.
We didn't get the curable thing.
Um the doctor left the room andwe just sat there because she
gave us two options.

(38:59):
We can give you some more chemo.
It's old, it's out of date,that's why we started with these
things.
Um but we can try that or we cantry a clinical trial at a high
state.
So we talked about it, and youknow, you think about it now,

(39:21):
did we do we choose wrong?
You know, like should we havewent with the old stuff and
prolonged our life to wheremaybe a new clinical trial would
have come along?
So again, you know, post herpassing, that regret, grief,

(39:41):
like set in.
But we decided to go on with thethe clinical trial.
Um, so we go and sign your lifeaway, right?
Like, as a matter of fact, whenwe get there, we sat with the
doctor and uh he's like, Yeah,there's no cure for this.
Like your doctor in Ketteringsaid, Yes, you can do the old

(40:02):
school medicine, may prolong youfor a little while.
Um, but um we also have thesetwo clinical trials, and the one
he was on the board of, so kindof trusted that.
All right, you're really gonnawork hard for this.
So we we did that one.
Um she got her first treatment,and uh the treatment was over an

(40:25):
eight-hour span.
They just gave you a little bitof drugs, a little bit of drugs,
and every time they had to waitto see if a side effect would
kick in.
And with this drug, there was, Ithink, 10 or 12 different
syringes there, and they wereall geared towards counteracting

(40:47):
a side effect.
So obviously, the longer you cantake the drug, you get into hour
five and six, it's working.
No side effects, no sideeffects, no side effects.
That last dose is she went in,they gave it to her.
She got unhooked, we wereleaving, and then her body shut

(41:08):
down.
Like it was shaking, freezing, aside effect.
They come rushing back in andstart pumping her with the one
syringe syringe.
Yeah.
Kind of calmed down, everythingwas good.
Um, you know, even the doctorthen said, you know, it's great
that you made it all the waythrough.
So it was an eight-hour day.

(41:29):
Come back in three weeks.
So we came back in three weeks,and uh, every time you go get
any kind of treatment, theycheck your blood and all that
good stuff.
And uh her blood levels werethrough the roof.
And part of the trial was, youknow, this drug is either going
to destroy the cancer in yourliver or it's going to

(41:51):
accelerate it.
Um so accelerated it.
And uh that next treatment wecouldn't get it because the
doctor said, if I give you this,you will die today.
So let's, you know, we've hadsome trials in this that they
skyrocket but then come backdown.

(42:13):
So let's we'll see you back inthree weeks.
That three weeks was hell.
And that drive home that day wasthe first time that Rhonda, I
think, felt defeated.
Like, this isn't gonna work.

(42:34):
So we're driving back fromColumbus, and she says to me, I
don't need you to talk.
I'm gonna tell you what we'regonna do next.
And it was we're getting ourfinances in line, we're getting
our living will updated, likethe hard conversations.
I'm trying to drive on 70, likeI can't see.

(42:58):
I'm not sure how we got back.
It seemed like that drive wasfive hours.
But she just said, justhammered.
She had a notepad, this is whatwe're doing.
And then it's the teacher inher, right?
This is the the assignment.
Um, and then at the end shesaid, There's two things I need
you to do is make Gavin's senioryear and graduation amazing, and

(43:25):
make sure Emma knows that I'mher mom.
And that's when I like, really,this is happening.
So we had stents to the ER dueto severe back pain because the
cancer was really just blowingher liver up.
She had gained weight.

(43:47):
Um Rhonda was always very uhthin and she couldn't get pants
buttoned.
She was just in but in denial ofit, like so much so that she was
going to the first day ofschool.
Like she was going toorientation.
Or not orientation, what isthat?
The parent open house.
Open house, open house.

(44:07):
It's it was a Tuesday, and Iremember that Monday night, um
she was in severe pain.
Kids didn't know it.
Theo's off to school in collegeat Finley and Theo's, or
Gavin's, you know, just a juniorliving life, and then Emma's

(44:29):
eight years old, you know,playing and has nowhere in the
world and all that good stuff.
And it was that Monday night.
She had taken a nap, um, and shewoke up, and it's the first time
that I thought I saw her, and Ithought, she was yellow.

(44:52):
Like I could tell somethingwasn't right.
So I do the dumb thing of onGoogle.
What's the final stages ofcancer?
And she had all of them.
That Monday night I didn'tsleep.
Went to work the next day, anduh I called her.

(45:15):
She didn't answer.
It's about eight o'clock.
She should be up, she didn'tanswer.
Now I'm all the way over inEnan, Ohio, which is about you
know 45 minutes from home, anhour, and it's she's not
answering.
And then I thought to myself,she's dead.

(45:37):
In bed.
She normally, when I got up frombed, she would always move, you
know, have a good day, nothing.
She was asleep.
And I was, and I had a severepanic attack, anxiety, like, how
do I get home?
I was frozen in a parking lot ofan account, like Gavin or Em her

(45:59):
gonna find her.
I don't remember how I got home.
I remember pulling off the sideof the road a couple times just
to gather myself, and I pulledinto the parking lot of Walmart
and Eaton.
And crazy, I often pull backinto that parking spot.
I know exactly which one it is.

(46:20):
When you're going throughcancer, you have a tremendous
supporting group.
Like the family have beenamazing, like friends.
To this day, I tell Chad Mandyall the time, and I don't I know
they appreciate it and I knowthey realize it, but like I
don't know where I would bewithout them.
But like I didn't want help.
We had this, we got this, and Iremember calling my sister and

(46:41):
telling her my wife was dying.
Like, I need help.
And she's like, you need to callSherry.
And that's Rhonda's mom, who isan angel on earth.
Like, I could call her right nowand say, Hey, I need you to go
pick up Amber from school, andshe would drop everything she
does and go do it.

(47:02):
Um so I called her and I said, Ineed you.
I need you here.
She goes, I'm all on my way.
So I get home, I walk into theliving room of her fully dressed
for orientation or open house,showered, ready to go open

(47:24):
house, arguing with Gavin overhim not signing up for CCP
classes in time.
So it's okay, we've we're here.
So I'm pacing around the housebecause they're still butting
heads about why didn't you dothis?

(47:45):
Why didn't you do that?
You know, you know, and Gavin'scompletely numb of it.
Like, oh no, you know.
So Gavin then storms off.
They get him signed up, stormsoff to the back to the bedroom,
and he gets ready for a footballpractice.
And um I remember Rhonda sayingto me, she said, Why are you

(48:09):
home and why'd you call my mom?
And that's when I told her I'mscared.
Like, I can't do this anymore.
I need help.
And she goes, I'm scared too.
I said, So we're both inagreeing, so we're not going to
open house?
She said, No.
I so it took some convincing forher not to go.

(48:33):
Um, but she's like, Yeah, Idon't.
And that's when I I wouldn't sayshe gave up, but I think that's
when it was it.
She wouldn't change her clothes,laid on the couch, I think slept
most of the day.
I got up, took the kids to openhouse.
Um, and uh I was uh Wednesday,Thursday kind of went by, and

(48:58):
you know, we're just strugglingto get through those days.
And that weekend, I'd we calledthe family, you know, why don't
we all just have a cookout?
Bring everybody back here.
And at that time, Ron was prettyweak.
Um, wasn't really eating much.
Um, but um well that Friday, uhsorry, scoop back that that

(49:19):
Friday we had went to Ohio Stateum to do a scan of her liver
just to see the progression, andwe did that, and um we she had
that appointment, and then likeat three o'clock in the
afternoon, we met with thedoctor about the scan.
And she was like couldn't sit,constantly moving, just the
pain, and she was not one formedicine.

(49:42):
Um so it was a very painful dayfor us.
I remember um we went to eatlunch, tried to eat lunch at
Panera Bread, and we order, weget our food, and we sit down,
and she's like, I can't sithere.
So she goes back to the car, andI'm just sitting there with two
meals, and then she texts me,she goes, We need to go to the
ER.
So that food is still at PaneraBread, as far as I know.

(50:03):
So we call the, we she goes,Well, let me call the doctor
first.
So she calls the doctor, yep,just come straight here.
And uh we went in, got with thedoctor, and he said uh uh the
liver scan came back.
Um I think it's I think it'stime to prepare for the worst.

(50:29):
And then still, when I just saythat out loud, I'm like it just
doesn't I'm numb.
And Ronda said, How long do Ihave?
And he said, month, week, maybedays.
And we went from that room toher succumbing to morphine.

(50:50):
Like, so they gave her morphineto go home with.
We drove home and she was asleepthe whole way.
Um it's another, you know, can'tsee straight, drive home, eyes
just trying to figure out whatthe heck am I gonna do?

(51:10):
What am I gonna do?
What am I gonna do?
What am I gonna do?
It was all about what was Igonna do, and you know, in
hindsight, thinking, how selfishis that?
Like, so we get home, um, shegoes to the bedroom, I get her
in the bedroom, she fallsasleep, and that's when, you
know, let's have the family forthe weekend.

(51:31):
Because we were going homebecause there was no beds
available at the James for anypatients because he was sending
her to the ER just for comfort,comfort care.
And couldn't, there's no beds,so she's like, okay, we can wait

(51:52):
around here for a bed, but no,I'm gonna go home.
Theo's coming home from college.
Let's have a weekend with thefamily.
So family comes in, and uh shewas so out of it.
I was giving her, you know,every four hours, six hours or
whatever is the morphine.
And I remember Emma asking me,what's wrong with mom?

(52:14):
She's super tired.
This last treatment, you know,really took a toll on her
because it was true.
I felt good about that.
And the boys, once again, neverask questions, you know.
And I always, you know, youdon't want to lie to them, but
you you want to be transparentand you know, all that good
stuff.
And it was the first time I kindof skirted the story of because

(52:38):
of Rhonda's mom had said,Where's her medicine?
It's time.
And she's looking at the bottom,she goes, Do you cut these pills
in half?
I said, No, just give her one.
Well, it says here on the label,you're supposed to cut them in
half.
So I'm pumping her full of 20milligrams of morphine when
she's supposed to be getting 10.
So then that was my story.

(52:59):
I could tell the kids.
You know, dad's trying to drugmom, trying to make light of it.
And well, that weekend, goodweekend.
Um she obviously didn't do much,didn't eat much, but so much
family around, it felt good.
And we were going to the doctorMonday morning to get us into

(53:20):
the hospital here in Kettering.
That Sunday night, um, myselfish self again all night
long, just get to tomorrow.
Just get don't let this happentonight.
Don't let this happen tonight.
And we were in bed, we were onthe couch, we were in the

(53:40):
recliner, she was on my side ofthe bed, like just she couldn't
get comfortable.
And I managed to fall asleep atthree or four o'clock, and she
mumbled something.
I have no idea what she said,but I took it as I love you.

(54:01):
And it's really the last time wespoke.
So it's Monday morning, youknow, Sherry and me are helping
her to the car because she canhardly walk, get her to the
hospital.
Um, and I we were going to thehospital to have, because the we
met with the oncologist, andshe's like, okay, let's get you
in the hospital, let's go in tosee if we can do something with

(54:22):
the liver to, you know, open upthe biles to release some of
that just to release somepressure.
So that was the next thing wewere doing.
So I was able to tell the kidswe're gonna have a procedure on
the liver and explain it tothem.
Okay, cool.
Well, that was Tuesday, and theycouldn't do it.
The biles were or the the ductsin our liver were completely

(54:44):
closed with cancer.
Literally didn't have a liverleft, it was all cancer.
So then turned to, okay, I gottaface this with the kids.
Call my brother-in-law Bob,who's a superintendent up in
defiance, and his wife'sRhonda's sister.
Um I need you to go get Theofrom college.

(55:05):
I need you and Melissa to behere at the hospital.
Okay.
I'll take care of it.
Give me Coach Palm, his baseballcoach's number.
I'll call him, we'll get Theo.
We'll be there in two hours.
And I'm just sitting by the bedholding around his hand, and I
phone rings and it's Theo.

unknown (55:27):
Crap.

SPEAKER_04 (55:28):
Step out.
What's going on, Dad?
And it's the first time that I'mlike, okay.
Um just came out of surgery.
Um, I need you to hear.
Don't ask questions, just gethere.
In case something were to gowrong, I want you to be here.
I don't want you to ever be awayfrom college when this happens.

(55:49):
Okay?
It gets there.
You know, we last that day.
It's Wednesday morning.
Um I was kind of going back andforth to the house, getting the
kids, you know, because at thispoint the kids are Gavin and
Emma are in school.
So it's get them to school, goto the hospital.
Family member would be back toget them off the bus.

(56:10):
I would come home late at nightbecause Sherry was not leaving
her side.
Sherry told the story that sheliterally drove herself to the
hospital and gave birth toRhonda by herself.
So not leaving her ever.
Gonna see her in this world,gonna see her out of it.
So she stayed at the hospital.

(56:30):
I did the taxi back and forth,and it was Wednesday.
Um, it was during school.
Theo, um, I need to go get myphone charger.
I'll walk out there with you.
Walk out.
We're in the parking garage, wegrab the and still, no
questions.
Just we're gonna go home soon,mom's gonna be fine.
And walking back into thehospital, he says, All right,

(56:56):
Dad, what's next?
And I said, Mom's not gonna makeit.
And I had to catch him, and wewalk back to the car, and we
sits in a passenger seat andputs his head up on a dash and
just crying, just rubbing hisback.

(57:18):
What can I do here?
Except just I don't sayanything, just comfort him.
And which seemed like fourhours, he says, My God, turn on
the air conditioner.
I am sweating.
So, you know, that's dad'swittiness coming at him.
And uh, so I turn on the airconditioned and it was instant.

(57:41):
All right, how are we tellingthe other two?
He flipped a switch and it waslike caretaker for dad.
And that's his mom and him tothis day.
I think I told you since mompassed away, I have talked to
him on the phone every singleday.
Not a text, not a Snapchat, nota it's been a phone call.

(58:04):
And it's what I look forward toevery day, you know.
And there's been times whereit's been 10 o'clock at night,
and he's like, hey, sorry didn'tget the call.
I'm like, I'm good, good night.
But it's been that phone callevery single day, never missed a
day.
But yeah, he turned into, okay,time to go help.
He went in the in the hospitalroom, gave her a hug, kiss, told

(58:26):
her he loved her, and it's like,what's next?
Let's go.
So we played at home that Fridaynight, um, Gavins Jr.
versus Talawanda.
We're still in the hospital.
Well, that Friday after school,we sent Emrah off to uh my
sister's in Lima because everysummer she would have Camp

(58:47):
Christie's go swim with hercousin who's the same age.
Just kind of a whether it was afull week or an extended
weekend, so it was an easy wayto, okay, it's time to go.
So she first week of school, getout of school because of Labor
Day weekend.
She goes up to my sisters for anextended weekend.
So, okay, that's taken care of.

(59:07):
So now it's Gavin next.
So it's we leave the hospital,go to the football game.
Um, matter of fact, I wasn'tgonna go.
Theo, you go.
I already had coverage for thecameras.
I like I wasn't doing it.
I'm just gonna stay here.
And Sherry's like, no, you go tothe game.

(59:29):
And since I was on the, I'vebeen on the sideline, um, as you
are now, Ben, but like, and Ihope you get to enjoy this.
When Theo was a freshman, wewere at Greenville and just on
the sideline for the first timeever.
They do the they run out, youknow, jump on each other.

(59:50):
Theo comes beeline, gives me ahug every Friday night for four
years.
Theo senior year, Gavin becomesa freshman.
Both of them come give me a hug.
Gabin stuffed to my foot, butbut every Friday night I got a
hug from my my boy before thegame started.

(01:00:11):
And I would give him a message,you know, be great, love you,
you know, play with the hair onfire.
Always try to give himsomething.
So that Friday night, um I cameover, gave him a hug, and I told
him mom loves him.
Couldn't even tell you if we wonor not.
Like, I just felt numb.

(01:00:33):
Like it felt like because it theword had gotten back to the
community.
She wasn't doing well, you know.
Obviously not in school.
She's in the hospital.
And with me and Theo on thesideline, it felt like every
single person in that buildingwas staring at us.
I felt sorry for them.
Like, I wonder what and no onewanted to ask.

(01:00:53):
That was Rhonda.
So we go back um home, Gavingets home Friday night after the
game.
Uh, we talk about the game alittle bit, and that next
morning, why said to Theo, I'mlike, when do we tell Gav?
Like, I'm asking him.
So we can't do it tonight.
Adrenaline from a football game.

(01:01:14):
Like, you can't do that to themmentally.
And I wanted to.
So next morning, um, get up,send uh Coach Davis a text, hey,
Gavin's not gonna be a filmtoday.
We're gonna take time with thefamily.
Absolutely, no problem.
So Gavin gets up.
I another another thing I did orwe did was always fed the boys
before they went off.
So I made them breakfast andthen uh told him that he wasn't

(01:01:37):
going to film.
He didn't even ask why.
He knew.
Didn't ask why.
He goes, okay.
And I had to tell him, Mom's notgonna make it.
And he breaks down, you know, meand Theo are, you know, arms
over him and he starts to askwhy.

(01:01:59):
Like, why?

unknown (01:02:00):
What?

SPEAKER_04 (01:02:01):
No, why?
And I don't have that answer.
But he got himself together.
We all three went to thehospital, spent, you know, that
Saturday morning.
We also decided it's time to goto hospice.
So um we moved to hospice thatSaturday, tons of family around,
um, and we spent that whole dayat hospice.

(01:02:22):
And on Thursday, the living willcame into effect when the the
nurse said there's nothing elsewe can do, can't really keep her
comfort.
You kind of have to decide here.
So it's it was pull everything.
So she's on day four of nowater, no IV, no food, but the
heart just pumping strong.

(01:02:44):
So we moved to the hospice, it'sa full day, and Sherry's like,
go home with the kids, the boys,take them back to the house.
I'll stay here overnight.
And I remember we all threeslept in the living room.
Nobody asked each other.
I pulled up the recliner.

(01:03:06):
We have a bigger chair that GabTheo fell asleep in, and Gab was
on the couch.
We all knew we wanted to bearound each other.
I just waited for the phone calland waited, waited, fall asleep.
He wake up the next morning andlook at my phone, I'm like,
what?
So we boys you guys want to goback to the hospice?
No, we're gonna stay home.

(01:03:26):
The two of them just stayedhome.
So I went back and it's anall-day thing again.
And multiple times.
I'm like trying to figure outwhat she's holding on to.
Like, you know, I told hermultiple times, we all did.
It's okay.
You can go.
I got this.
You know.

(01:03:47):
Matter of fact, that Sunday,she's a huge Dave Matthews fan,
and we played Dave Matthews allday long on her phone right next
to her head, just to kind ofgive her some peace and like
because it got to Sunday night,and it's time for me to leave
again.
What is going on?

(01:04:08):
What are you holding on to?
Well, that's Sunday.
My sister had brought Emmer backhome.
So when I got back home latethat night, she was there.
Um the both boys, uh, Rhonda'ssister Stephanie had brought me
back to the house.
Um we all did the slumber partyagain in the living room.

(01:04:31):
Because I I think I may havesaid something like, hey Ember,
why don't you go get yourmattress?
We all slept out here lastnight, you know.
Oh, slumber what?
But we're gonna get him go seemom tomorrow morning, right?
Yep, we are.
Because we were we have a bigslumber party and I'd fallen

(01:04:51):
asleep quick.
And I woke up to saying, Dad,Dad, what?
Call Grandma Sherry.
I knew what the phone call wasabout.
So I go in, I take the phonecall, and she tells me she'd

(01:05:11):
taken, you know, passed away at9 45, 10 o'clock at night.
And uh I what are you doing,Sherry?
I'll come get you.
Like she goes, no, I'm I'm gonnadrive home.
Sure.

(01:05:32):
Like, let me come get you.
I'll take you to Lima.
Like, you don't need to bedriving home and this.
She's like, no, I'm okay.
You know, gotta spend somereally good quality time with
her.
Like, I'm I'm okay.
Because we knew it, like just amatter of time.
But uh she drives home and orshe I get off the phone and I

(01:05:53):
walk out and I the boys catch mejust and me and I remember Gavin
or Theo literally catching me asI'm falling and saying, You're
gonna wake Emmer up.
Caring for dad.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:06:15):
So we go back into Gavin's room and just kind of
the three of us just quiet andtalked.
I got gotten texts so sorry fromMelissa and Stephanie and Bob
and Dana and the whole family,and it's kind of I think it was
two or three o'clock in themorning.
I'm like, okay, let's go getsome rest.

(01:06:38):
A long road ahead of us.
So we go back to the living roomand uh the next morning The
first question to me how are wetelling Emma?
I don't know.
What do you tell aneight-year-old?
So she slept in about nineo'clock.

(01:07:02):
I pull her into the kitchen andpick her up on the bar, and I'm
you know, she's like, What areyou doing?
And I said, um, mom didn't makeit.
She passed away last night.
The cancer got her.
And she kind of wrinkled hereyes and said, verbatim.

(01:07:24):
Do I get her phone?
Just an eight-year-old.
Worried about them.
Like, do I get her phone?
And as a parent, uh, she has noidea.
Still to this, she's 10.
Like, she's still, although ourrelationship is tremendous, we

(01:07:46):
have great she still doesn'tknow the battle ahead that she
has, um, which is great.
Like, continue to be 10.
Um, so look forward to doingthat Be Tempered podcast in 20
years.
But yeah.
Um, and then we just started tofigure it out, you know.

(01:08:06):
Yeah, the the the funeral.
Um and I feel terrible for notremembering who told me this.
But uh, you know, you talk aboutthese things to family and
stuff, and they're like well,she waited until all four of you
were together.

(01:08:28):
And yeah.
She she knew Emra was home.
She literally passed away anhour and thirty minutes after
Emma had gotten home.
Which gave her time to put stuffaway, get her bed out there, and
ask all of us to lay down.
So, you know, funeral,everything went phenomenal.

(01:08:53):
It's everything she wanted thatshe told me she wanted, you
know.
We have the she wanted to becremated.
We had, you know, a partyafterwards.
Like literally we're out at thefairgrounds, and she wanted cake
and Dave Matthews.
So the community came togetherand we had tons of food and it
was awesome.
We had a cake, we played DaveMatthews and celebrated.

(01:09:17):
And then um Monday comes along,and Theo has to go back to
college.
Kids.
I think uh it was Monday nightbecause Theo had class on
Tuesday, so we had gone homeMonday night.
And I didn't send the kids toschool on Tuesday.
Um and then Wednesday, it wasWednesday morning.

(01:09:39):
We're sitting Emmeros on ourswing in the front yard, and me
and Gavin are sitting there, andhe said, I want to play this
Friday.
Okay, I don't know the rules.
I'm gonna send hopefully don'tget anybody in trouble.
Coach Davis and Coach Cal or Mr.
Couch a message, hey Gavin wantsto play this Friday.
What do we need to do to get himin school?

(01:10:00):
He's like, just come topractice.
I want to play this Friday, Iwant to go to practice, and I
want to order number eight,which was Rhonda's number in
college.
So um Wyatt Sasser player onteam at number eight, and he
instantly gave it up.
So he's number eight.
He goes to practice.

(01:10:20):
Um we played he played thatFriday night of it was the day
of the service, so you know,service, we had the celebration,
and the entire family goes toOakwood.
And uh he didn't start, which ofcourse makes me mad as a parent.
What are you talking about?
He's not remember on the firstplay, um they threw a I think it

(01:10:45):
was a halfback pass, and the thecorner that was playing in front
of him got burned.
Later on the game, they they ranthe same play when Gavin was out
there and he timed it perfectlyand tipped it away.
Like, okay.
Somebody's helping him there.
Okay.
So yeah, um, we move on.

(01:11:05):
Um I took eight weeks off ofwork, um, just trying to wrap my
head around, you know, what'snext, and always try to be
transparent with the kids andtell them, you know, this is
what I'm doing.
They've always been involvedwith what I think's right, what
we're doing right.
And then that's when things likeit's the the what just happened

(01:11:29):
to me, the denial, the grief wasunbearable.
Um and Pastor Dan at the EanCommunity Church um has walked
me through to de literally I hadmet with him yesterday just to
get some strength to come heretoday.
Um but it was he's you know I'vesat down and talked with him um

(01:11:51):
to help me with things and um Iwent through a 13-week grief
class with him and just tryingto not didn't need to know why,
because no one does, you know,it's cancer, right?
So you know, we come to I thinkit was about a month ago.

(01:12:18):
Um I was really strugglingbecause I knew the two-year
anniversary was coming up.
The fur the first one obviouslyis numbing and you know the kids
are doing great.
And about a month ago, Iremember driving home from work,
ready to quit.
Quit life.

(01:12:40):
Never at any point that I wasgonna hurt myself for because I
knew what I had to do for mykids, but I was done.
Like exhausted, wanting to clike I'm done.
Didn't want to be here anymore.
Thought about what it would bewithout me, and I leaned on the

(01:13:03):
tentsmans again.
Kind of talked to them a littlebit and you know I'm here for
you.
Like always.
Everyone's there for you, right?
But as men, we don't need them.
So um I you know strapped myboots back on again and then

(01:13:24):
that whole leading up to lastFriday was, you know, okay, I
need to do something.
I August 27th, I started to walkevery day, try to hold myself
accountable by sending my boys apicture, hey, out walking, just
trying to get things going inthe right direction again.
Um and uh which really led me tofalling upon Jeff's Facebook

(01:13:52):
post and I'm here.
So try and still find thatpurpose.
Um so yeah, that's the man.

SPEAKER_06 (01:14:06):
First off, thank you for sharing that.
Um you know it's hard for me tosit here and and not break down
because um it's such a touchingstory, and and again, we go back

(01:14:27):
to you know putting ourselves inother people's shoes.
And so the whole time you'retelling the story, and I I just
heard it on Friday, you know,I'm thinking about what if that
what if that's my wife?
How do I have that conversationwith my kids?
What does that look like after?

(01:14:49):
And um you're on the right path,man.
You're doing all the rightthings.

SPEAKER_04 (01:14:55):
And what I would say to that is have those difficult
conversations with your spouse.
Like, what if?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:07):
What do you think, Ben?
Uh I mean, I'm I'm excuse me,right there with you when you
named your the datinganniversary when it was April
14th, 2004.
And as soon as you said yours,I'm just sitting there like,
that's Lisa and I.
I mean, we were 14, 15 when wefirst started dating and putting
myself in that situation.
I yeah, I don't know.
I first met you, what was it wasit last year, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:30):
Yep.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:31):
And uh, you know, I'm I'm kind of knew the story
of Rhonda and everything, butone thing that I admire about
you is I've seen, you know, lastyear, senior year, every single
game.

unknown (01:15:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:42):
Coming up, give you a hug, you know.
I see Theo come out on the fieldwith you every single one of
those games, stand right next toyou.
You know, even not your kids,Johnny coming up to you every
every time, giving you a bighug, you know.
Um and then, you know, alsoseeing you coach Emra and seeing
like your relationship withthem, like your purpose.
I mean, you're you're I I mean Isee my like a lot of myself and

(01:16:06):
you, like you're you're Ibelieve you're a servant-like
leader, man.
Like you're a volunteer, like Idon't know.
I'm just I feel blessed to knowyou.
Like last year on the sidelinewas one of my favorite times,
like just being able to know youand um and to hear your story
today.
Just man.
Yep, you're a great man.
I mean, never forget that.

(01:16:27):
Uh just put myself in in yourshoes.
I just can't imagine how strongyou are.
Um, obviously how strong Rhondawas, and seeing you know,
obviously a lot of Rhonda andTheo, it sounds like.

unknown (01:16:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:40):
Just amazing, man.
And I know how hard it was to bevulnerable and like tell the
whole story, but it's gonna helpa lot of people.
You know, we talk about how hardit is to talk as men and not
being, you know, we don't needhelp.
And it maybe sometimes it's notabout needing help, just
sometimes it's about getting itoff our chest and letting other
people know, like you're notyou're not alone, like we're

(01:17:01):
battling, everybody's battlingsomething, which is powerful.
I can't thank you enough, Chuck.

SPEAKER_04 (01:17:06):
Thanks.
And that is getting it off yourchest.
And you know, I'd have those,you know, sit-downs with Pastor
Dan, and what always leaves themfeeling hopeful.
And leaving Friday with you,feeling hopeful, like and it was

(01:17:26):
uh Matt Roberts' episode, Dr.
Roberts, and uh he said, come onhere and talk about the way I
want to live my life and I holdyou accountable.
So I have tried the weight lossjourney, tried the mental health
journey, and I've always quitit.
And I don't want to anymore.

(01:17:47):
I want to okay, stick with it.
You know, I don't want theovergaving to say, yeah, right,
Dad.
I'm done hearing that.
I want to find my purpose, andthis podcast is going to help
me.
It's gonna help my kids.
Hopefully it helps the myfamily.

(01:18:07):
Like I just said last weekend,my mom was around, and uh I can
still see that she walks aroundon eggshells around me.
What not to say, what to say,not sure what to say.
People don't want to talk aboutit.
It's okay too.
So if you see me in thecommunity, it's okay.

(01:18:28):
Because we're ultimately gonnabe okay.

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:32):
And uh And you're gonna be starting something
coming up.
If we're gonna talk aboutaccountability.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:44):
I think that's your accountability.

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:48):
No, I just planted the seed.
You did.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (01:18:51):
You did.
Um I'm still looking for that 75easy, though.
You're not gonna find it.

SPEAKER_06 (01:18:58):
You've been doing that your whole life.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
All right, Chuck.
Last question.
If you could sit on a park benchand have a conversation with
someone living or deceased, whowould it be and why?

SPEAKER_04 (01:19:10):
I knew this question was coming.
Can I have two?
Sure.
It would be my dad to tell himI'm I'm sorry, and give him a
hug.
And then obviously Rhonda totouch her one last time.
I want her to give me anothernotepad of things to do.

(01:19:33):
Um yeah.

SPEAKER_06 (01:19:37):
Powerful.
There's nothing else to say.
I I uh I thank you again forcoming on.
I know you know everybody in thecommunity knows you and sees
you, and you know, I I I feel aspecial connection to you.
Um and uh I'm excited to seewhere it goes.
I'm excited to watch you on your75 hard journey when you start

(01:19:59):
it here in a couple weeks.
It's out there now.
You're accountable.
Theo, Gavin, Emra, make sure youhold them accountable because
I'm going to.
But um, you know, I I know thiswas difficult for you to share,
but man, I I'll tell you what, Ithere's not many podcasts that
we've done.
What was a 75?

(01:20:20):
It's really been challenging forme to hold hold it back.
Um that's how powerful it is.
So I know that there's someoneout there who is maybe in the
middle of what you've wentthrough, or maybe something
else, but they can they canlatch on to something that
you've said.
And I think the most importantthing throughout this whole

(01:20:41):
thing is what you recognized amonth ago is that you were in a
hole, you know, emotionally,physically.
But then things started tohappen, then you start to notice
things.
You know, you talk when wetalked on Friday, you talked
about um after her passing, youwent on vacation.
And what did you see when youwalked down, when you walked

(01:21:02):
down to go out to the beach,what did you see?

SPEAKER_04 (01:21:04):
Which I hated the beach.
Yeah.
Rhonda loved it.
Yeah, the first day we walked toout onto the beach, um, there
was a cardinal on the privacyfence that was separating the
two, chirping.

SPEAKER_06 (01:21:19):
And you noticed that.
I did.
Yeah.
I think as you progress and asum, you know, you you're never
gonna forget, you know, you'reit it that's not not anything
that's ever gonna go away.
But as as you get a littlestronger mentally and and
physically and uh hopefullyspiritually, all those things,
you're gonna notice thosecardinals every day.

(01:21:41):
You're gonna notice those littlethings.
And it may just be just a simpleconversation just by coming up
and talking to Ben and I andjust say, hey, thanks for for
what you did for putting thepodcast out.
And I heard it today.
Thanks to Sean Rubush forwriting the book.
You know, all those littlethings that you're just gonna
start to notice.
And as you grow and as you get alittle stronger, it's gonna be

(01:22:03):
more and more and more.
And then you're gonna look backand you're gonna think, man,
that was a tough time, but I hadto go through that to get to
where I'm at now.
So thank you again.
Yeah, yeah.
All right, everybody.
Like, share, do all thosethings.
Somebody needs to hear Chuck'sstory.
Uh, if you see him in thecommunity, give him a hug.
Give the boys a hug, give Emma ahug.
I can't wait to watch Emma onthe basketball court here this

(01:22:26):
this winter.
She's a little spitfire.
Awesome a lot.
And go out and be tempered.
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SPEAKER_05 (01:23:02):
I want to share something that's become a big

part of the B Tempered mission: Patreon. (01:23:04):
undefined
Now, if you've never used itbefore, Patreon is a platform
where we can build communitytogether.
It's not just about supportingthe podcast, it's about having a
space where we can connect on adeeper level, encourage one
another, and walk this journeyof faith, resilience, and
perseverance side by side.

(01:23:25):
Here's how it works.
You can join as a free memberand get access to daily posts,
behind-the-scenes updates,encouragement, and some things I
don't always put out on otherplatforms.
And if you feel called tosupport the mission financially,
there are different levels whereyou can do that too.
That support helps us keepproducing the podcast, creating
gear, hosting events, andsharing stories that we believe

(01:23:48):
can truly impact lives.
And here's the cool part.
Patreon has a free app you candownload right on your phone.
It works just like Facebook orInstagram, but it's built
specifically for our community.
You'll be able to scroll throughposts, watch videos, listen to
content, and interact withothers who are on the same
journey.
At the end of the day, thisisn't just about content, it's

(01:24:09):
about connection.
It's about building somethingtogether.
Not just me and men putting outepisodes, but a family of people
committed to growing strongerthrough real stories and real
faith.
So whether you just want to hopon as a free member or you feel
called to support in a biggerway, Patreon is the door into
that community.
Because at the heart of BeTempered has always been simple

(01:24:31):
real stories, raw truth,resilient faith, so that even
one person out there that hearswhat they need to hear, and
Patreon helps make thatpossible.