November 27, 2025 • 52 mins
What makes someone worth following when no one is watching. In this leadership roundtable, that question sits in the center of the table as stories unfold from classrooms, locker rooms, offices, and quiet early mornings when no one else is around to see the work.
On this episode of BeTempered, hosts Dan Schmidt and Ben Spahr sit down with guests Brian Ballenger, Mark Broeker, and members of the Wayne County Area Chamber of Commerce WC Leads Cohort to unpack leadership that is not about titles or platforms, but about service, alignment, and consistency when the spotlight is off.
The conversation traces the path from a high school teacher who walked away from a 20 year career to a coach who drilled preparation and accountability into every practice. Their stories show how example beats rhetoric, how standards shape culture, and how small daily choices quietly forge character over time.
Together, the group explores why alignment often works better than chasing balance. Instead of trying to slice life into even pieces, they talk about naming non negotiables like faith, family, service, and health, then letting those priorities drive the calendar. That framework gives leaders a steady place to stand when it is time to enforce standards, make hard calls, protect culture, and still hold compassion for the people involved.
You will also hear practical insight on how to have tough conversations, how to tailor feedback so it actually lands, and how to judge leadership by the culture it creates rather than the title on a door. The WC Leads cohort shares what it looks like to grow as young professionals across healthcare, housing, education, finance, and business while staying rooted in Wayne County.
Integrity in the dark shows up too. The early workouts no one sees. The quiet reading before the day starts. The text or note of encouragement that costs a few minutes but compounds into trust over time. Challenges like 75 Hard become case studies in ownership, grit, and the kind of self discipline that teams and families naturally follow.
If you care about servant leadership, real accountability, and practical tools you can use with your team tomorrow, this conversation will sit right beside you in the work.
Connect with BeTempered and the hosts:
BeTempered website: https://betempered.com
BeTempered on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/betempered
Learn more about WC Leads and the Wayne County Area Chamber of Commerce:
WC Leads program: https://www.wcareachamber.org/wcleads.html
Wayne County Area Chamber of Commerce: https://www.wcareachamber.org
If this conversation encouraged you, follow BeTempered, share it with a friend who leads, and leave a quick review. When you support the show and check out these links, you help more people find stories of real faith, resilient leadership, and communities that grow stronger together.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
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SPEAKER_08 (02:09):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.
SPEAKER_10 (02:14):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips, and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.
SPEAKER_08 (02:22):
We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
SPEAKER_10 (02:29):
This is Be Tempered.
SPEAKER_08 (02:30):
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast, episode number 81, Dan.
SPEAKER_10 (02:35):
Are you sure?
100%.
I double checked five secondsago.
SPEAKER_08 (02:39):
You're three for three.
SPEAKER_10 (02:40):
I have one job.
SPEAKER_08 (02:43):
No, you had a couple today.
I did.
Yeah, you failed.
SPEAKER_10 (02:46):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_08 (02:46):
Hey, today we uh have a unique situation here on
the podcast.
We've got a group from WayneCounty Chamber of Commerce.
It's the WC Leads Group.
And this is a group of youngadults who are leaders in our
community.
And um they have been here aboutan hour prior to us recording
(03:08):
the podcast, and we have hadsome pretty amazing
conversations uh regardingleadership, people who they look
to as leaders in their lives,and uh asking some amazing
questions.
And so we want to carry that onto the podcast here and get some
stories, ask some questions, um,and try to get better today.
(03:30):
I mean, that's what that's whatthis is all about.
So, you know, in stating that,we are here today uh sitting in
studio with Brian Ballinger.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Hello, Dan.
SPEAKER_08 (03:40):
This is not your first time here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Yeah, it's good to see you again.
SPEAKER_08 (03:42):
Welcome back.
And everybody knows Ben.
Hello, Dan.
And we've got Mark Broker withus.
Hello.
And we have Miss Mary Parrott.
SPEAKER_03 (03:52):
Hello.
SPEAKER_08 (03:53):
And so what we're gonna do is I want to start
right now, Brian.
I want you to tell me one wordthat comes to mind when you hear
leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
To me, leadership, uh, there's one word that uh
really permeates my mind when Ithink about leadership, and
that's uh uh to be empowered byempowerment.
SPEAKER_08 (04:16):
How about you, Ben?
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Selfless.
SPEAKER_08 (04:19):
Selfless.
SPEAKER_10 (04:20):
Selfless.
SPEAKER_08 (04:21):
I think of servant.
When I when I think of a leaderthat I want to emulate, I think
of someone who is a servantleader, someone who is giving
back, who is trying to helpothers, being a servant for
others.
So servant is my word.
How about you, Mark?
SPEAKER_09 (04:36):
I instantly think of growth and not growth within
myself.
It's about the team around, it'sabout a community, it's about a
team, it's about just acommunity overall.
When you're a leader, people arelooking at you.
Maybe it's your family.
It could be as simple as yourson or daughter.
Mary?
SPEAKER_05 (04:54):
Um, when I think of a leader or leadership in
general, I would say like aquality that someone might
possess, or I guess a set ofqualities that uh helps them
guide a like a singular personor a group of people towards
kind of like a collective goal.
SPEAKER_08 (05:09):
It's a good answer.
All good answers.
I mean, there's no right orwrong answer, right?
I think at the end of the day,we've all had leaders in our
lives who have made a positiveimpact in our lives.
And then there's leaders we'vehad that have, you know, we've
we've learned from maybe on anegative sense, where it's like,
ooh, we don't want to lead likethat.
And so, with that today, withthe group of young adults that
(05:30):
we have with us, uh, there weresome questions that were asked
to the group, and we got somesome pretty awesome answers.
And the biggest thing I want tokind of stay on here with this
podcast is one of the questionswas when you think of a leader,
who do you think of?
Why do you think of that person?
And what's a story that you canshare with others that people
(05:53):
can relate to?
So, Mary, that's why you'resitting at the table first,
because I I read your answer andand was blown away.
And I think it's important to uhfor you to share that.
So, so when you think of aleader, who do you think of, why
that person, and what kind ofstory do you have that you can
tie into that?
SPEAKER_05 (06:11):
Yeah, okay.
Um, so I'll be honest, when Igot this question, it kind of
took me a minute to like reallythink because I feel like giving
someone the title of leader,like, it's kind of a big deal,
and you don't just want to givethat around, you know, if
they're not actually a leader.
And so I really startedthinking, and I thought back to
one of my former high schoolteachers.
Uh, her name is Mrs.
Alka.
(06:32):
She was my biology and my agteacher.
So I went to a really small highschool.
So he kind of they doubled downon um subjects that they taught.
Um, but she always was somebodywho led by example.
She was always like just a greatperson, a genuine person, a real
person.
Um I was put in her class, likemy freshman year of high school,
(06:52):
in an ag class.
And I was like, why am I in thisclass?
Like that was just not my thing.
Yeah, I lived in a ruralcommunity, but my family, like
farming was just not our thing.
And I was like, okay, whatever.
I'll sit through the class, I'llget the credit, all will be
well.
And so as time went on, I waslike, man, this class is
actually pretty cool.
Um, the content was starting tobe interesting, but really what
(07:16):
stood out to me is how welearned different qualities
within her class.
So in the intro to AG was kindof like FFA based, like kind of
like a, I guess, a funnel intoFFA, if you will.
And that was something that didnot interest me at all.
Um, and so as the class went on,we learned about public speaking
and presence and how to show upand work ethic.
And so as time went on, um, Idid some projects within the
(07:38):
class, and she looked at me oneday and was like, hey, like, I
really think you should be anFFA.
I think you should take thisproject and go and compete.
If you know anything about FFA,it's a lot of competitions, a
lot of things that help youskill build.
And so I was like, you knowwhat?
Yeah, sure.
Life sounds good.
So I did that my first year.
Um, it went okay.
And then after that, I washooked.
(07:59):
FFA was actually like myfavorite thing I did during my
high school years.
Um and so I thought that wasreally cool.
And just to be a part of FFA isjust really nice and to have a
leader like Mrs.
Alka was super great.
Um, my junior year, I would sayis like the summer between my
junior and senior year, she toldus that she was leaving.
(08:20):
And she had been at our schoolfor like, I want to say like 20
plus years.
So like her leaving was like abig deal.
Um, she wasn't retiring, she wasactually leaving the teaching
profession altogether.
So that is a 17-year-old who'slike really enjoys like being
with this person and having herin class and all these things.
I'm like heartbroken.
I'm like, oh my gosh, like thisis so upsetting.
(08:41):
Like, can't you just stay?
I have one more year left ofschool.
And she's like, no, like I needto, I need to do this.
And the whole entire time, like,she's very upset.
Like, and she didn't hide thatfrom us uh that she was upset
about leaving, but she was like,I need to, I need to do
something different.
And I was like, okay, and at 17years old, you don't really
think a lot about that, but Iwas like, okay.
(09:01):
So she did.
And after she left, she stillshowed up, she still
communicated with us, she stillshowed leadership and basically
showed that she was a goodperson.
So that went a long way.
Um, but then thinking more likein the present day, so um, I
currently work at BethanySeminary as a coordinator of
(09:21):
their Bethany Bull program.
I've actually only been thereabout four and a half months.
So I haven't been at Bethanyvery long.
Um, I've act I actually was apublic school teacher the last
three years since I graduatedcollege, and obviously I no
longer do that.
And so going into the teachingprofession, I don't know if you
guys know, but it's kind of aninteresting area to be right now
(09:42):
for a lot of people, even likesuper seasoned veteran teachers.
And so by about year two, I waslike, you know what?
I'm not sure if this is this isfor me for numerous reasons.
Love the kids, but it's it's ahard place to be.
And so year three, I moved to adifferent school, try that out.
Maybe it's just the school I wasat.
(10:03):
Maybe I need to try somethingdifferent.
Year three, I'm like, uh no, no,no, no, no, no.
I don't think this is it.
And year three is when they sayit gets a lot easier, which it
did in some aspects, but inothers, I'm like, how do people
do this for 30 years?
Like, this is this is a lot ofwork.
Um so I was really thinkingabout doing something else,
didn't know what I wanted to do.
I'm in my like mid-20s, I'm likekind of stressed.
(10:26):
I'm like, teaching is avocation.
So I'm like, what where do I go?
What do I do now?
And so wanting to leave teachingwas like really, really scary.
And so, and you work so hard toteach.
I mean, you have to do studentteaching and all of that stuff.
And so then I just got tothinking about it.
I'm like, you know, Miss Alkadid it.
She was here for 20 some years,that's all she knew, and she had
(10:50):
the courage to to do somethingdifferent for herself.
And so I've never told her, I'venever told her that.
But um, that really, I mean, shewas a leader by example and
didn't even realize that that'sthe example she was setting.
So that's why she's my leader.
SPEAKER_08 (11:05):
Yeah, that's an amazing story.
That's it, you know, what animpact she had on you.
And uh it you, I'm sure shedidn't realize it.
You know, she's just doing herjob, but what an amazing leader.
And then, you know, hear youreflect back on it, you know,
making that career changebecause she did.
So thank you for sharing thatstory.
SPEAKER_03 (11:24):
Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_08 (11:25):
It's amazing.
Yeah.
What about you, Brian?
What do you have?
When you you there's somebodyout there who who was it?
Who was that leader for you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
Well, when I was in my uh early teen years, there
was a gentleman that uh youwould see on TV commercials.
Uh, some of you may not evenknow the name, but Lee Akoka, he
would spent the majority of hiscareer uh with Ford Motor
Company.
And in 1978, he was uh selectedto be the new CEO of Chrysler,
(11:54):
who at the time was facingbankruptcy.
Uh just a huge amount ofproblems within that
corporation.
But when he came on TV, andagain, I'm in my early teens,
and I see this guy say, lead,follow, or get out of the way.
And and there was just somethingabout that statement that I
connected with, really didn'tknow why.
(12:14):
Um I I think of that statementdifferently now than I did then,
but I guess what I reason I wantto bring that up is that really
resonated with me.
Uh, the thought of lead, follow,or get out of my way.
And I think that was somethingkind of instilled in me.
Um where that comes from, Idon't know.
(12:35):
Call it God given.
But today, when I think aboutthat statement, it's almost like
an admonition.
If you're gonna lead, if you sayyou're gonna lead people, then
be a leader.
But if you are a but if you'renot gonna lead, you say you do,
(12:56):
and there's a lot of people outthere that say I'm gonna lead,
but they're not leaders.
You need to get out of the wayor follow.
And so to me, that was the thefirst real, I guess,
introduction to what what whatleadership is.
Maybe a little bit of an unusualexample, but that that's the
first time I ever heard thisconcept of of leading and
(13:17):
following.
SPEAKER_08 (13:18):
Yeah.
Lee Coca, yeah, that's a that'sa famous name for sure.
All right, we've got somebody atthe hot seat.
Again, talking about leadershipand uh and all those good
things.
Ben, who who's someone that youthink of when you think of that
leader that influenced you inwhatever way, who's that person
(13:39):
for you?
SPEAKER_10 (13:40):
So mine was always the my coaches growing up.
That was the first sense, likeuh we talked about before.
That's funny.
During football season, I hadpoor leadership where it just
wasn't consistent, right?
Yeah, you come into Dixie andthere's 13 kids, and then it's
like, yeah, I did not sign upfor this for high school sports.
So then they'd get out.
So there's no continuity andeverything, but the the
basketball coaches from middleschool um all the way up to high
(14:02):
school.
It was just the people thatinstilled that trust, that that
leadership of uh wordscountability.
Um, you know what I mean?
Like they were always held youaccountable no matter what.
And I really learned from them.
SPEAKER_08 (14:13):
Yeah, accountability is key.
And I think that's we talkedabout that with the group
earlier, just about how there'snot a lot of accountability in
today's age for whatever reason.
I don't know if people areafraid to step on other people's
toes, but you know, especiallylike we talked about in youth
sports, like when you hold kidsaccountable, if there's rules
and they they don't follow, theybreak those rules, hold them
(14:33):
accountable.
Yep.
Right.
And that's how you grow is fromlearning from your mistakes.
So um, so yeah, that's you know,for me, when when I think of
this question, you know, I Italked about it earlier.
I think about my former collegefootball coach, Mike Kelly.
You know, he was someone who wasenthusiastic.
He always held peopleaccountable, and he was always
(14:55):
prepared.
And those lessons that I, youknow, I didn't realize it at the
time, it's kind of like Mary,you know, you when you're around
certain Peter people who have,you know, just amazing
leadership, you don't evenrealize it.
You know, you're but you'relearning so many valuable things
along the way.
And uh his enthusiasm foreverything that he did, whether
(15:16):
it was, you know, just me andhim sitting at his his office,
he was enthusiastic in hisconversation, his excitement for
me to get better the next year.
He would hold us accountable.
There were rules that we had tofollow.
And if we broke those rules, wewere held accountable.
There were consequences, and youhad three strikes.
And that third strike, if youhad a third strike on the team,
you were off the team.
(15:36):
You know, that's a big deal.
SPEAKER_10 (15:37):
Yep.
SPEAKER_08 (15:38):
Um, and then he was always prepared.
I mean, preparation,preparation, preparation.
That's why we were successful.
That's why he was successful,that's why he is in the NCAA
Hall of Fame, you know, becauseof the success that he had in
his career.
SPEAKER_10 (15:52):
And you can tell that it, you know, that shaped
you because that's the way thatyou lead, right?
Always try to attack it withenthusiasm, always hold people
accountable, and you're alwaysprepared.
SPEAKER_08 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's that's that's key.
So when Brian, when we talkabout leadership and we talk
about uh, you know, thosecertain people, you know, we
kind of broke down the theone-word answer, but how would
you say that you lead in yourbusiness, in your family life,
(16:21):
in your nonprofit?
Are they all the same leadershipstyles or do those change?
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
No, I I I can't say that I have a single leadership
style that works across all ofthose different fronts.
You know, the way I would haveraised my daughters, obviously
going to be much different thanthe way I try to lead employees,
um, any other uh perhaps boardwhere it's more of a
collaborative uh scenario.
So I I think to me, leadershipneeds to be able to be flexible
(16:49):
based on the situation or thecircumstance, also uh uh with
each individual.
So um I I think you need to beable to understand who you are
at your core, uh let that be aguiding principle, but then when
uh uh analyzing who I'm with,what what's the mission?
Each organization has differentmissions, and so tailoring that
(17:12):
leadership style to to fit uhwho it is that we are leading.
SPEAKER_08 (17:17):
Let's talk about, and we talked about it with the
group earlier, work lifebalance.
And I thought your answer waswas good to the group.
So let's let's share that againwith our listeners.
When, you know, that that was apopular term, whatever, and
whenever it came out, you know,work-life balance.
You got to be balanced in allthe things that you do, which
(17:38):
you know, my feel I mean, Ithink balance balance is
bullshit in my mind, pardon myFrench, but I I think that's
what it is.
It's you know, it's all aboutbeing present in whatever you're
doing.
So when I'm at work, I ampresent at work.
When I'm at home with my family,I am present with my family.
If I'm with our our youthbasketball team, I'm present
with them.
I think it's more about beingpresent than about being
(17:59):
balanced.
So talk about work-life balance.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
Yeah, we probably started hearing that term about
a decade ago.
And at first, I really uh jumpedonto that because with what I
was going through in my life,you know, very busy, a lot of
activities, a lot of obligationsand responsibilities, that that
has a toll.
I mean, it it gets tiring, um,you feel stretched, um, uh, it
(18:24):
can wear you down mentally,physical, physically.
So I put a lot of thought intothat.
And what I came to is this pointof where I was actually
brutalizing myself because I Ifelt like in order to serve one
group, my family, uh, mybusiness, my employees, somebody
was getting robbed.
Maybe it was my extended family.
(18:45):
And so there was a lot of guiltassociated with that.
Uh, but I I've spent more timethinking about what does it mean
to be aligned in my life ratherthan uh focusing on balance.
We're gonna have instances whereget whatever uh whatever it is,
we might be giving more time andattention to that uh in a
(19:06):
24-hour period.
That's okay.
But am I fully aligned with whatI'm doing?
And to me, alignment is seekingthose things that not only
fulfill you, but you are lookingat what's most important in my
life and what am I willing tonot give up.
I call that the non-negotiables.
(19:27):
So with our routines, patterns,and habits, what am I doing
today?
How am I spending my time inorder to fulfill whatever goal
that might be, whether it's inservice to others, uh service to
my family, then also looking atwhat am I, what am I doing, what
am I spending my time with todaythat doesn't serve anyone,
(19:50):
doesn't even serve me.
I have to be honest with myselfand be willing to say, I'm gonna
have the discipline to get thatpart out of my life because it's
not serving anyone, it's wastedtime and being aligned so that I
can um not feel overwhelmed, notbe overly stressed, and then
live the life that I feel likeI'm called to live.
SPEAKER_10 (20:13):
Yeah.
And I feel like once you havethat alignment set, everything
will flow underneath it.
Like you're what you call it,you're non-negotiable.
So like the same thing with me.
If I'm on my deathbed, that'sthe way I look at it, right?
My last breath, and I'm lookingback.
All right, well, the number onething is I want to make sure I'm
faithful.
Like my faith is my number onething, and so that's my top.
The next one, I want to be thebest husband I can be for Lisa,
(20:34):
right?
End of the day, that's my goal.
I want to be the best husband Ican be.
And then after that, it's mykids.
Like nobody comes before my kidsbesides my wife and my guy.
That's it.
And then after that, you know,help one person.
Like no matter what I do, I'mserving someone.
And that goes back to my faith,though, right?
Like that's who I try to go myleadership from, servant leader,
(20:56):
the ultimate one.
So I feel like once I alignthose top, I feel like
everything else, you know, willbe all into place.
SPEAKER_08 (21:03):
Yeah, that's great.
That's all good stuff.
All right, back out into theroom.
Mark.
SPEAKER_09 (21:09):
Hey, I have Viva here.
She wants to share another storywith us about uh leadership.
SPEAKER_11 (21:15):
Yeah, so um, my name is Eva Morata.
I work at Erlum College, I'm theassociate director of community
relations.
And one thing I love so muchabout my job is that I get to
help strengthen the community.
And the way I grew up, I movedaround a whole lot and didn't
have a steady community that Icould lean on for support in
many ways.
And so, because of that,sometimes I have a hard time
(21:35):
thinking about leadership, whohas been a leader for me.
And beyond just celebrities andpeople whose books I read, I
think the one person I keepcoming back to is my aunt.
Um, her name is Deborah.
And she was always a person thatI could count on as a mentor and
a role model throughout my life.
Um, she was somebody that Ialmost hate to say it, but has
(21:57):
sort of that work-life alignmentthat you all were talking about.
Of course, she does overextendherself, but she was able to
find how her passion alignedwith um both just her internal
motivation and also how tocultivate that into like an
external opportunity.
So she was always such a hardworker from a young age, holding
multiple jobs, setting herselfapart from sort of family
(22:21):
accepted um activities, if youwill.
Um, and she really cared for herfamily as well.
So she was the primary caregiverfor her grandparents, my
great-grandparents, and putherself on the line to make sure
they had care for the last yearsof their life.
Because of that, she startedstepping up in the care facility
where they were at.
And she saw problems and shetook that initiative to address
(22:44):
them.
And because of that, they hiredher as the director of the
assisted living facility,despite her being a high school
English teacher.
That was her full professionalbackground.
Um, so just like seeing herevolution throughout that role
and how much her care allowedher to step into that
professional position andfulfill her sort of love to our
(23:06):
grandparents and also to theother members of our community
who weren't necessarily gettingthat good leadership support was
incredible from that position.
She became the director of acommunity health organization.
And just seeing how she was ableto give back and through her
hard work and the skills thatshe worked so hard to cultivate,
she was able to lead thisorganization with an incredible
(23:26):
amount of just finesse.
And she's just someone I look upto so, so much in both
professional and personal.
Um, she also just was thepresident of the Rotary Club in
her area, and she oversaw um thedevelopment and installation of
a public art sculpture calledHeroes.
(23:47):
And it was about beyond just whoyou think about heroes being.
And uh, she asked the question: who is in your life who's a hero (23:51):
undefined
that isn't being recognized?
Is it teachers, is it medicalprofessionals, is it the people
who work really hardvolunteering?
Who is that?
And so she led the installationof that sculpture in the
community and just was able tooversee so many projects that
gave back to people beyondherself.
(24:12):
And she asked me, you know,questions that have definitely
turned me into who I am today,and one of which is, how can I
support you?
And that was a question that hadnever been asked to me.
And so thinking about that,knowing that she had that desire
to help me grow into the bestperson I could be, led me to
start asking those questions tothe people around me.
(24:34):
How can I support you?
How can I show up for you?
Um, and I think that's reallylike how leadership starts is
having somebody that you cansay, oh my gosh, you're doing
this, this, and this.
And I'd like to do that too.
And how can I learn from you inother ways?
And I really just think it goesback to that question of you
know, not overextendingyourself.
How do you find that alignmentbetween um work and personal?
(24:57):
And I think that's why you needto have a job that you love,
something that you you know umfills your cup every day.
So you can go home to yourfamily, your friends, your pets,
and uh be truly who you areinstead of just you know another
extension of your work persona.
So thanks for the opportunity totalk about these things.
It's exciting being here.
SPEAKER_08 (25:16):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Does she know how you feel abouther?
SPEAKER_11 (25:20):
I think I need to tell her explicitly, yeah.
SPEAKER_08 (25:23):
I think you just did, but I think it would be
important for you to share thatwith her because you know, as a
leader, sometimes it's it, youknow, there's a heavy burden,
right?
And you can feel the weight andyou feel the pressure and you
wonder, am I doing what I hope Ishould be doing?
You know, I I feel fulfilled, Ifeel like I'm helping people,
but you know, you don't alwayshear it as a leader.
You know, a lot of times as aleader, as part of that burden,
(25:46):
you get all the negative stuff.
So I think it would be good.
Now, I mean, you just told herbasically here, but I think it
would be good to have thatconversation just to uh, you
know, to let her know howimpactful she's been to you.
SPEAKER_11 (25:58):
Yeah, I definitely will.
And I think, you know, theemotional labor of being a good
leader is definitely there.
So it goes, you know, unseen alot of the time.
So if you have a good leader inyour life, let them know.
Thank them.
So I'll definitely do that forher.
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
That's a great point.
Uh, just a couple of days ago, Ireceived a text message from uh
someone that I've known for over30 years, out of the blue, just
kind of random, uh 5'10 yet.
I think it might have beenyesterday morning, actually.
And um uh I won't go into whathe said.
It's um uh I guess for me, Idon't I don't want to I I don't
(26:32):
need a lot of affirmation.
I certainly don't need to shareit with others, but just the
thought that he took time out ofhis morning, I was on his mind,
and the thoughts that he sharedwith me about how much he
appreciates me, um, that justreally set my day up really
well.
Because, you know, I think youyou're right, uh, she mentioned
uh sometimes the the the greatburden we have as leaders and
(26:56):
sometimes it's very uhthankless.
Uh so it is good to uh asleaders to reach out and
acknowledge those that we do seethat are doing great things
behind behind the scenes.
SPEAKER_08 (27:06):
Yeah, I agree.
And you know, that's one thing Ireally, really try to do every
morning is I try to send a text.
Uh a lot of times what I'll dois I'll send a video message um,
you know, to someone that maybeI haven't talked to in a while
because I feel like that'sthat's more impactful, that's
more personable.
(27:27):
Um and and so I would encourageany of you out there, whether
you're in a leadership positionor you're not, is just to reach
out to those people that maybehave been a leader to you and to
say, hey, I just want you toknow, thank you for what you you
know, what you've done in mylife, and and uh you know, just
show that appreciation.
I think that's important.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
I'm trying to get better at that.
SPEAKER_08 (27:48):
Yeah, it's it's a hard thing to do again because
we get so busy.
But Mark, we got somebody elseat the table?
SPEAKER_09 (27:53):
Yeah, I have Lindsay here.
She stepped up, she has a fewquestions or mainly one question
for the group of you three.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
He just looked at the full page of questions I
have, but I picked the best one.
Um I'm Lindsay Freed.
I work for the Housing Authorityhere in Richmond.
I'm the family self-sufficiencycoordinator, um, which means I
do case management andfundraising and kind of wear a
million hats.
Um of the things that's been sothe most beneficial for me about
this conversation is being inthis room of business owners and
(28:23):
young professionals talkingabout that experience of
realizing that we'veoverextended ourselves, right?
That we're doing too much, thatour plate is too full, and
trying to set boundaries andmake sure that we're serving the
folks we want to serve as wellas we can.
Um, I think one of the mostchallenging things for me about
doing that is when I encounter amoment where as a leader, I have
(28:45):
to enforce, or I have to firesomeone, or I have to terminate
a resident from housing, orterminate someone from the
program that I run.
When I have to be that enforcer,I really feel the burden of
leadership.
And I'm wondering for you folks,what's the conversation that you
have with yourself when you needto talk yourself into I need to
(29:07):
do something that might hurtthis person in a way that I know
is ultimately going to be goodfor them, but it's hard to take
that step.
How do you have thatconversation with yourself when
you have to be that enforcer andand you feel the burden of
leadership that way?
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
So to answer that, I feel like you have to analyze
what what's the right decision.
And I think a lot of times weknow in our heart what the right
decision is.
That doesn't make it easy.
Um but if we want to serve thatperson, maybe it's terrible
news.
Like, for example, you mentioneduh evicting someone.
(29:45):
Dan, I think just uh veryrecently you you terminated
someone within your company.
Uh that's not an easy thing, butuh is it the right thing?
And and who knows?
You know, several years agothere was an individual that
worked for me.
Uh he was Very young, kind ofcocky, very arrogant, huge ego.
(30:05):
And he was just making severalmistakes one after the other.
And I finally, and we talkedabout those mistakes.
And uh one day I just realizedthis is not gonna change.
So did the very, I mean, it wasa very hard thing to do.
I worked side by side with himfor probably two years, um, had
to terminate.
And about five years ago, whichso I'm I'm talking, this is
(30:29):
going back almost 30 years.
About about five years ago, thisindividual came to me and he
said, I I I gotta share thiswith you.
And I thought, oh no, I'm notsure how this is gonna go.
But he said, that was the bestthing that you could have ever
done for me.
Um, he said, I needed that.
So sometimes we can't see at inthe moment that that's going to
(30:50):
be the best outcome for thatperson, but having the courage
to do what's right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:56):
Thank you.
That's a great answer.
SPEAKER_08 (30:57):
Yeah, and it and it that is a hard thing.
But that's, you know, I I didshare that uh story with with
the group earlier about havingto let someone go.
That was um again, you know,when when you're a leader and
and one of my biggest strengthsis caring for people.
You obviously have a caringheart, and and some of the
decisions that you have to make,whether it's letting someone go
(31:18):
or or something as serious asevicting someone from their
home, like that's heavy.
That's very, very difficult.
But when you're to that point,there's a reason you're at that
point.
And you have to look at likewhat Brian said, you have to
look at what is the best thingfor our organization, for
ultimately, maybe for thesepeople, right?
(31:39):
If you're letting someone go,like there needs to be a change.
And that's what I came to acouple of weeks ago with with
what I had to do, because I wassick about doing it.
I was sick, but I I knew that itwas affecting my team.
And ultimately, that this wasthe decision that had to be made
to for the betterment of ourbusiness.
(32:02):
And um it's never easy.
You know, again, that's theburden of leadership.
And if you're going to be inthat position, you've got to
expect that there's gonna be alot of times, uh, more often
than not, where you're gonnafeel that anxiety, you're gonna
feel that stress and thatpressure.
(32:23):
Uh, it's not comfortable, youknow, it's it's not a
comfortable situation foranyone.
Um, so you know, it's just doingwhat's right for the
organization as a whole.
And I and I think ultimately, inmost cases, it's probably right
for that individual.
Maybe in your situation, it'sright for that family.
They got to get a change to getout of whatever that environment
(32:44):
is.
Um, but it's still it's tough,it's very difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (32:49):
Yeah.
Great question.
Thank you.
And I I think earlier when youjust you were telling your story
about having to let someone goand mentioned, described this.
You're, I think it was your wordexactly that this was the burden
of leadership that hit me reallyhard because I this is kind of
the toughest part for mepersonally.
SPEAKER_08 (33:05):
Yeah.
unknown (33:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_08 (33:06):
If you don't want to be a leader and you don't want
to be, you don't want to feelthat that pain, then take a step
back and let somebody else doit.
But I can tell everybody in thatroom, you know, they they want
they're hard, hard chargers,they're dry, they want to get
better, they want to besuccessful, and that's that's a
that's what being a leader is.
SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Yeah, we're all in it here.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08 (33:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_09 (33:26):
A follow-up question I had from uh some people that
submitted some questions to mewas how do you tell a good
leader from a bad leader?
Sometimes people get labeled agood leader, but they're really
a bad leader.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
To me, that's kind of a simple one.
Um a good leader is somebody Iwant to follow.
A bad leader, I do not want tofollow.
I'll do about anything to nothave to follow somebody like
that.
SPEAKER_10 (33:52):
From an outside, you can just look at the culture a
lot of times.
The culture that's built there,how people treat each other.
A lot of that's a reflection ofthe leadership.
That's what I would look at.
SPEAKER_08 (34:01):
Well, and I think, you know, titles mean nothing,
right?
Yeah, it doesn't matter whatyour title is, whether you're
president, CEO, CFO, whateveryou are, executive director,
that doesn't mean anything,right?
That just means that's theposition that you hold.
Um, there's plenty of leadersand and various companies that,
you know, maybe at the bottom ofthe totem pole financially in
(34:24):
that organization, but they'reactually a leader, you know.
Um, so um I don't titles meannothing to me as far as that
goes.
So yeah, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
I feel like I should say for the record that my
personal role, and I'm verygrateful for this at the housing
authority, does not mean that Ipersonally have to make the
whole decision of evictingsomebody.
Our public housing manager is anangel, and I adore her, and she
is more responsible for those.
And of course, we haveregulations that guide us, but I
do have to make decisions about,you know, somebody participates
in this program that I run forthe housing authority that gives
(35:00):
folks access to case managementand support and funding.
And if I have to terminatesomeone, it's tough.
So I really appreciate you guyssharing this wisdom.
SPEAKER_08 (35:09):
And yeah, I wouldn't say wisdom, just experience.
What's the difference?
It's true.
SPEAKER_09 (35:18):
All right.
We're switching out real quickhere, but I have Katie and she
has a question for the group.
SPEAKER_01 (35:30):
Hi, Katie.
SPEAKER_03 (35:31):
Hi.
SPEAKER_08 (35:35):
Tell us your name and the organization you work
for.
SPEAKER_04 (35:39):
My name is Katie Stephen and I work for Read
Health.
SPEAKER_08 (35:44):
Question you have for us.
SPEAKER_04 (35:47):
So when it comes to leadership and constructive
criticism, receiving as well asgiving, um, I want tips and
tricks on that because I wouldlike to think I receive
criticism well.
I'm not an outsider looking in.
And so um, and I also have togive constructive criticism
(36:07):
often.
So everything you can tell me.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
All right, I'll answer that.
That's almost um, I'm gonna giveyou two different answers.
So, first of all, the way yougive construction constructive
criticism, how do you like toreceive it?
Because we all need it, we maynot want it, but if I'm good, if
if I need it, how do I like toreceive it?
So, in other words, the way thatothers have have approached me
(36:36):
and it went well and you took itwell, you use that.
But then also I think you needto look at the individual.
Um we're dealing with withhumans, we have personalities,
uh, we're we're all different.
And so I think probablytailoring that criticism that's
needed given on a case-by-casebasis, because ultimately, what
(36:58):
do you want?
You want the best outcome forwhatever that situation is.
Uh so I don't think it's a onesize fits all.
SPEAKER_08 (37:05):
I'll tell you how I deal with it.
I I what I try to do like withbusiness or even if it's just
like the kids, is I I always tryto say, hey, put yourself in
this person's situation.
You know, if this happened, whydid it happen?
(37:26):
Were they raised differently?
What's their home life like?
You know, there's all thesedifferent things.
Don't know other people'ssituations.
So if if you can can takewhatever that criticism is, I
call it coaching.
You just you say, okay, youknow, why did Brian react the
way that he reacted?
You know, why did he get upsetabout this or get upset?
(37:47):
You don't know what his day waslike, right?
So let's let's talk thatthrough.
I think it's really important toconnect with people.
And and a lot of times that'sbeing vulnerable.
You know, that's beingvulnerable with that person.
And maybe you share a story,maybe whatever you're um you're
coaching or you're criticizingsomeone or having a
(38:07):
conversation, maybe you share astory with them that's happened
to you that you be and you kindof break that ice, and then you
turn it and you say, Okay, youknow, this happened the other
day.
No, why did this happen?
Can we talk through this?
What's going on at home orwhat's going on beyond work?
Is there something else going onhere?
(38:28):
And try to make that connection.
I think when you can connectwith people by being vulnerable,
I think that's when thingschange for the better.
And it doesn't mean you'realways gonna make that person's
not gonna get it all the time.
But I think if you if if youshow them that you're open and
you're vulnerable and you'rehonest in your conversation,
(38:49):
that you're gonna find thatthey're gonna be more open and
honest.
And I think the outcome in mostcases will be better.
Right.
Um, so that's that's how I tryto do it, especially with my
family, with my kids.
You know, when they come homeand they talk about such and
such did this at school today.
Well, what do they go home to?
You know, I just don't know.
SPEAKER_10 (39:11):
Yeah, my big thing with receiving, and it's gonna
be hard to talk like this andtry to look, I'll look at you on
the TV screen.
But no, uh the big thing for meis I think it comes from like a
relationship standpoint on how Ireceive and and give criticism,
right?
Like I feel like in order for meto receive criticism a lot of
times, what's the either liketheir position or be like,
(39:32):
what's my relationship withthem?
Because some people have thecriticism, it's like, well, do I
want to be like you?
Like, do I want that criticismto come from there?
Like if you have a relationshipwith them and you know the type
of person they are, I feel likeit's easier to receive.
And obviously it's easier togive, right?
If you feel like you have arelationship with someone,
(39:52):
they're gonna be more likely toaccept that because they know
where it's coming from.
Like they know that you care forthem if you have a relationship
with them.
Um, I feel like a lot of timescriticism comes and you don't
know who it is and it justdoesn't mean anything, you know.
So I feel like if you reallywant to be a good leader, have a
relationship with them, and thenthe criticism will be received a
lot easier.
SPEAKER_08 (40:10):
Well, like with you, you know, you're in our
relationship.
Right.
I mean, I can be pretty bluntwith you, yeah, you know,
because we have thatrelationship and you know you're
not gonna take it personal.
Right.
But there's other people thatyou can't do that with.
You gotta build that connection.
You gotta, you know, you gottashow that you care.
I think, I think when you showpeople that you care and you're
you're vulnerable withwhatever's going on, I think
(40:31):
that's where true connection andtrue change happens for the
better.
So I don't know if that answersyour question, but no, that
helps for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (40:39):
I think that individuals that I've received
criticism from, it comes from aplace of their heart that's
light, and that along comes withgood leadership.
And so I have had individualsthat have been great leaders and
have taught me in a way to thenkind of deliver the same way I
received, to your point.
Um, but I always like quit likesecond guess myself and question
(41:02):
myself like, am I doing it thebest way?
Or is there a thousand differentways?
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
I think you you'll know by the way it's received if
they and if they feel that youtruly care and that you want the
very best for them, keep that inmind.
And it nine times out of ten isgoing to be taken well.
But they have to know it's allit's only because you care and
you're passionate about them.
SPEAKER_04 (41:29):
All right.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_08 (41:30):
Yeah.
Good question.
Mark, you got anything else toadd out there?
Does anybody else want to comeup to the mic?
SPEAKER_09 (41:40):
I'm just looking over my notes here.
I have another uh one that wassent to me is that leadership
and growth happens the most whenno one's watching.
And that's hard to understandwhen it's leadership because in
today's world, leadership yousee in books, you see it in
podcasts, you see it on TV,social media, millions of
(42:02):
followers, whatever it is.
But whatever happens in thosemoments when no one's watching,
as long as you keep repeatingthat, maybe it's a tough
conversation.
Maybe it's showing up every dayto go for a walk.
Maybe it's just getting out ofbed five minutes early every
day.
(42:22):
You used to show up late towork, now you're not.
Then you're emulating whatleadership would be.
So this person said leadershipis what happens most when no one
else is watching.
So I thought that was remarkablebecause that is so true about
not just leadership, but life ingeneral.
Michael Jordan didn't shoot freethrows in front of thousands of
(42:43):
people.
He shot them in his backyard ina rim that didn't even have a
net.
Same thing with many others inthe world.
No one was watching, and thenwhen they showed up, they were
ready to play.
SPEAKER_08 (42:54):
Well, you got a perfect example.
You just recently, you and yourwife just completed 75 hard,
right?
And, you know, you talk about achallenge, uh, doing things when
nobody's watching.
You know, talk about talk aboutthat transformation for you,
maybe not just physically, butmentally, because of all those
things that you did when no oneelse was watching.
SPEAKER_09 (43:16):
Yeah, and that's about emulating habits because I
wanted to change my mind.
I needed to have a growthmindset of just completely
changing not just my householdor myself, but as also the
community.
When you become overwhelmed,when you become not the person
you exactly want, um you knowwhere you want to go.
(43:36):
Um, it really started about twoyears ago.
Brian and I had a conversation,and he and I were both on this
complete growth mindset.
We were reading books likecrazy.
Um, I came across 75 hard, andthat is two workouts a day.
I am not a morning person.
So for about two weeks, I wastexting Dan saying, Hey, I'm up,
and it's before the sun comesup.
(43:57):
If I said I did that for twoweeks in a row, you'd have been
like, What happened to you,Mark?
Um, I was up this morning anddid it again, and now I'm after
the 75, it's built in.
Same thing with the diet, samething with a lot, but then when
you do that, it goes over toyour leadership and the people
around you.
Now there's members on the teamthat are like, well, look at
Mark.
Now I've had three people thatdo 75 hard right now.
(44:19):
Um, maybe it's reading a book.
Being a mentor in Wayne CountyLeeds is truly changing, not
just for the person, but alsothe mentor, because you're
reading the books with them.
I've read the same Atomic Habitsbook with every person that I've
done.
This is my third person now.
Every time that book impacts me,different.
Um, because it's differentstories.
(44:40):
The person I'm mentoring isdifferent each time.
Um, so that helps them just tosee that growth.
SPEAKER_01 (44:47):
So to me, Mark, what you're describing is taking
ownership of your own personalintegrity.
You know, I feel like it's soeasy, or it's easier, maybe
that's a better way to put it.
It's easier to display integritywith others when they're
watching, but it's a wholenother story when you hold
yourself accountable to your ownpersonal integrity.
(45:08):
And to me, you only do that inthe dark or when no one else is
watching.
And that is where we developroutines, patterns, habits that
define who we are and wherewe're going.
SPEAKER_08 (45:25):
Yeah, that's a great point.
And and that's what that's oneof the big things I harp on with
my kids.
You know, I have five kids.
Uh, my oldest is in college, allthe way down to my 10-year-old
son.
And we had my senior daughter,Leah, on the podcast here a
couple of weeks ago.
And that was one of the thingsthat uh she had mentioned.
I think you had asked her aquestion about one thing that
(45:45):
stuck with her that that I hadtaught her.
And she said, you know, you madethe comment to me a couple of
years ago that, you know, youneed to do things like people
are watching when they're not.
You know, you need to be uh holdyourself accountable in in your
workouts or in your school, youknow.
When when people aren'twatching, like what are you
(46:06):
doing?
You need to pretend that theyare watching uh because
ultimately that's gonna be whereyou have success, maybe in
sports, like in for her case, itwas soccer, or you're not.
You know, what what'd you dowhen no one was watching?
Um so yeah, that's that's umthat's yeah, super important,
super impactful for sure.
(46:28):
And obviously, you know, I thinktwo of us at this table have
done 75 hard.
I don't know that the third guyhas.
SPEAKER_10 (46:34):
I went to Dixie, I can't count, but one, two, oh,
oh, that guy.
Oh, he's trying to pressure him.
SPEAKER_08 (46:44):
No, Dan doesn't do that.
SPEAKER_10 (46:45):
Come on, Brian.
SPEAKER_08 (46:46):
He knows I'm going hard.
I know you are.
I'm not a bully most of thetime.
Mark, we got anything else outthere you want to add?
Any questions anybody else hasbefore we close this thing out?
SPEAKER_09 (46:58):
We do not have anything else out here.
We've been at this now, I thinkthe podcast maybe an hour, but
before that was maybe an hourand a half in length.
So when you're two and a halfhours of truly good
conversation, and this is thenext generation of leaders, um,
for a whole community to have 13people together and pour into it
(47:20):
like this.
This this program is not justtoday, it's not just us four.
It's for three months.
Not many communities can saythat they just pour into their
um next generation like that.
So to be selected for it is big,but now to take the next step in
growth is even bigger.
SPEAKER_08 (47:36):
So, for future, for those that maybe want to get
involved in the Wayne Countyleads, what do people need to do
to contact Chamber?
How do they how do they get intouch to maybe be a part of this
program in the future?
SPEAKER_09 (47:49):
Yeah, so you could reach out to the Wayne County
area chamber.
The nominations they are that toapply would come out in July
every year.
And then after that, it goes toa selective committee, and that
committee then selects who isactually part of it.
So this is the fifth year of it.
So when you think about fiveyears of people, 10 to 15
people, that's over 50 pluspeople that you are grooming to
(48:12):
be the next leaders of thecommunity.
Um, and that's right now they'rebeing on boards and and
investing in and pouring inlearning from people in ways
that you probably wouldn't be inthe same room with, to be
honest.
Um, that's remarkable.
SPEAKER_08 (48:28):
Yeah, from all walks of life, from all different uh
organizations in the community,uh, it's a great thing that that
our our chamber does.
And so I appreciate you reachingout to be a part of this.
It's been pretty awesome.
I know for myself, for Brian,for Ben uh to be in here and to
to meet all these these youngadults and and uh to be
(48:48):
inspired.
It's it's it's you know it'samazing.
We hear a lot of negativethings, right?
In a small community, you hearnegative, negative, negative.
But when you come into a roomlike this with people like this,
it's inspiring.
And uh so so thank you for forrecommending this.
Kevin, thanks for putting allthis together and letting
everybody be up here with GlobalMedia Enterprise.
We always appreciate our uhexecutive producer.
SPEAKER_10 (49:11):
Thank you, executive producer, Kevin.
Don't say executive PP.
SPEAKER_08 (49:17):
All right.
Hey, leadership is not a title,it's a choice.
Every single day you get todecide will I be somebody others
can count on?
Will I make someone's lifelighter today?
Will I walk into the room withpurpose?
Leaders aren't born, they'reformed through fire, through
failure, through little choicesthat build character.
(49:39):
Invite them to stay connected,continue to support the show,
continue to give us all thatsupport, those likes, those
shares, all those good things.
And uh check out the WayneCounty Chamber of Commerce and
all the good things that they'redoing in our community.
Brian, we appreciate you beinghere again.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_10 (49:58):
I always love it.
SPEAKER_08 (49:59):
Yeah, and Ben, thank you too.
SPEAKER_10 (50:01):
Hey, thank you, Dan.
Hey, and don't forget on ourwebsite now we officially have
merchandise that is a lot.
SPEAKER_08 (50:07):
Yeah, we've got and we got some exciting news to
come.
We're not going to share rightnow, but it's coming.
But yeah, if you go tobetempered.com, there's a gear
tab.
We've got some pretty cool uhswag up there that uh someone
has designed.
Swag, yeah.
Big time.
SPEAKER_10 (50:24):
So six seven.
SPEAKER_08 (50:26):
We're not going there.
All the teachers in the roomjust cringed.
All right, everybody.
Thanks for your support.
Go out and be tempered.
SPEAKER_00 (50:35):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad Dan.
He owns Catrin's Glass.
SPEAKER_07 (50:40):
Thanks, Allie.
Things like doors and windows gointo making a house.
But when it's your home, youexpect more, like the great
service and selection you'll getfrom Catrin's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatrins come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom shower doorsand many other products and
services.
The 962-1636, locally owned withlocal employees for nearly 30
(51:01):
years.
SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Patrons Glass, a clear choice.
SPEAKER_06 (51:05):
I want to share something that's become a big
part of the Beatempered mission: Patreon. (51:07):
undefined
Now, if you've never used itbefore, Patreon is a platform
where we can build communitytogether.
It's not just about supportingthe podcast, it's about having a
space where we can connect on adeeper level, encourage one
another, and walk this journeyof faith, resilience, and
perseverance side by side.
(51:28):
Here's how it works.
You can join as a free memberand get access to daily posts,
behind the scenes updates,encouragement, and some things I
don't always put out on otherplatforms.
And if you feel called tosupport the mission financially,
there are different levels whereyou can do that too.
That support helps us keepproducing the podcasts, creating
gear, hosting events, andsharing stories that we believe
(51:51):
can truly impact lives.
And here's the cool part.
Patreon has a free app you candownload right on your phone.
It works just like Facebook orInstagram, but it's built
specifically for our community.
You'll be able to scroll throughposts, watch videos, listen to
content, and interact withothers who are on the same
journey.
At the end of the day, thisisn't just about content, it's
(52:12):
about connection.
It's about building somethingtogether.
Not just me and Ben putting outepisodes, but a family of people
committed to growing strongerthrough real stories and real
faith.
So whether you just want to hopon as a free member or you feel
called to support in a biggerway, Patreon is the door into
that community.
Because at the heart of BeTempered has always been simple
(52:34):
real stories, raw truth,resilient faith, so that even
one person out there that hearswhat they need to hear, and
Patreon helps make thatpossible.
Hi, my name is Alex, but this is my goddamn field
Catrin's glass.
SPEAKER_07 (00:04):
Thanks, Allie.
Things like doors and windows gointo making a house, but when
it's your home, you expect more,like the great service and
selection you'll get fromCatrance Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatrins come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom shower doorsand many other products and
services.
On 962-1636, locally owned withlocal employees for nearly 30
(00:26):
years.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
Patrons Glass, a clear choice.
SPEAKER_06 (00:29):
I want to share something that's become a big
part of the Be Tempered mission: Patreon. (00:31):
undefined
Now, if you've never used itbefore, Patreon is a platform
where we can build communitytogether.
It's not just about supportingthe podcast, it's about having a
space where we can connect on adeeper level, encourage one
another, and walk this journeyof faith, resilience, and
perseverance side by side.
(00:52):
Here's how it works.
You can join as a free memberand get access to daily posts,
behind-the-scenes updates,encouragement, and some things I
don't always put out on otherplatforms.
And if you feel called tosupport the mission financially,
there are different levels whereyou can do that too.
That support helps us keepproducing the podcasts, creating
gear, hosting events, andsharing stories that we believe
(01:16):
can truly impact lives.
And here's the cool part.
Patreon has a free app you candownload right on your phone.
It works just like Facebook orInstagram, but it's built
specifically for our community.
You'll be able to scroll throughposts, watch videos, listen to
content, and interact withothers who are on the same
journey.
At the end of the day, thisisn't just about content, it's
(01:36):
about connection.
It's about building somethingtogether.
Not just me and Ben putting outepisodes, but a family of people
committed to growing strongerthrough real stories and real
faith.
So whether you just want to hopon as a free member or you feel
called to support in a biggerway, Patreon is the door into
that community.
Because at the heart of BeTempered has always been simple
(01:59):
real stories, raw truth,resilient faith, so that even
one person out there that hearswhat they need to hear, and
Patreon helps make thatpossible.
SPEAKER_08 (02:09):
Welcome to the Be Tempered Podcast, where we
explore the art of findingbalance in a chaotic world.
SPEAKER_10 (02:14):
Join us as we delve into insightful conversations,
practical tips, and inspiringstories to help you navigate
life's ups and downs with graceand resilience.
SPEAKER_08 (02:22):
We're your host, Dan Schmidt, and Ben Sparr.
Let's embark on a journey tolive our best lives.
SPEAKER_10 (02:29):
This is Be Tempered.
SPEAKER_08 (02:30):
What's up, everybody?
Welcome to the Be TemperedPodcast, episode number 81, Dan.
SPEAKER_10 (02:35):
Are you sure?
100%.
I double checked five secondsago.
SPEAKER_08 (02:39):
You're three for three.
SPEAKER_10 (02:40):
I have one job.
SPEAKER_08 (02:43):
No, you had a couple today.
I did.
Yeah, you failed.
SPEAKER_10 (02:46):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_08 (02:46):
Hey, today we uh have a unique situation here on
the podcast.
We've got a group from WayneCounty Chamber of Commerce.
It's the WC Leads Group.
And this is a group of youngadults who are leaders in our
community.
And um they have been here aboutan hour prior to us recording
(03:08):
the podcast, and we have hadsome pretty amazing
conversations uh regardingleadership, people who they look
to as leaders in their lives,and uh asking some amazing
questions.
And so we want to carry that onto the podcast here and get some
stories, ask some questions, um,and try to get better today.
(03:30):
I mean, that's what that's whatthis is all about.
So, you know, in stating that,we are here today uh sitting in
studio with Brian Ballinger.
SPEAKER_01 (03:39):
Hello, Dan.
SPEAKER_08 (03:40):
This is not your first time here.
SPEAKER_01 (03:41):
Yeah, it's good to see you again.
SPEAKER_08 (03:42):
Welcome back.
And everybody knows Ben.
Hello, Dan.
And we've got Mark Broker withus.
Hello.
And we have Miss Mary Parrott.
SPEAKER_03 (03:52):
Hello.
SPEAKER_08 (03:53):
And so what we're gonna do is I want to start
right now, Brian.
I want you to tell me one wordthat comes to mind when you hear
leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (04:04):
To me, leadership, uh, there's one word that uh
really permeates my mind when Ithink about leadership, and
that's uh uh to be empowered byempowerment.
SPEAKER_08 (04:16):
How about you, Ben?
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Selfless.
SPEAKER_08 (04:19):
Selfless.
SPEAKER_10 (04:20):
Selfless.
SPEAKER_08 (04:21):
I think of servant.
When I when I think of a leaderthat I want to emulate, I think
of someone who is a servantleader, someone who is giving
back, who is trying to helpothers, being a servant for
others.
So servant is my word.
How about you, Mark?
SPEAKER_09 (04:36):
I instantly think of growth and not growth within
myself.
It's about the team around, it'sabout a community, it's about a
team, it's about just acommunity overall.
When you're a leader, people arelooking at you.
Maybe it's your family.
It could be as simple as yourson or daughter.
Mary?
SPEAKER_05 (04:54):
Um, when I think of a leader or leadership in
general, I would say like aquality that someone might
possess, or I guess a set ofqualities that uh helps them
guide a like a singular personor a group of people towards
kind of like a collective goal.
SPEAKER_08 (05:09):
It's a good answer.
All good answers.
I mean, there's no right orwrong answer, right?
I think at the end of the day,we've all had leaders in our
lives who have made a positiveimpact in our lives.
And then there's leaders we'vehad that have, you know, we've
we've learned from maybe on anegative sense, where it's like,
ooh, we don't want to lead likethat.
And so, with that today, withthe group of young adults that
(05:30):
we have with us, uh, there weresome questions that were asked
to the group, and we got somesome pretty awesome answers.
And the biggest thing I want tokind of stay on here with this
podcast is one of the questionswas when you think of a leader,
who do you think of?
Why do you think of that person?
And what's a story that you canshare with others that people
(05:53):
can relate to?
So, Mary, that's why you'resitting at the table first,
because I I read your answer andand was blown away.
And I think it's important to uhfor you to share that.
So, so when you think of aleader, who do you think of, why
that person, and what kind ofstory do you have that you can
tie into that?
SPEAKER_05 (06:11):
Yeah, okay.
Um, so I'll be honest, when Igot this question, it kind of
took me a minute to like reallythink because I feel like giving
someone the title of leader,like, it's kind of a big deal,
and you don't just want to givethat around, you know, if
they're not actually a leader.
And so I really startedthinking, and I thought back to
one of my former high schoolteachers.
Uh, her name is Mrs.
Alka.
(06:32):
She was my biology and my agteacher.
So I went to a really small highschool.
So he kind of they doubled downon um subjects that they taught.
Um, but she always was somebodywho led by example.
She was always like just a greatperson, a genuine person, a real
person.
Um I was put in her class, likemy freshman year of high school,
(06:52):
in an ag class.
And I was like, why am I in thisclass?
Like that was just not my thing.
Yeah, I lived in a ruralcommunity, but my family, like
farming was just not our thing.
And I was like, okay, whatever.
I'll sit through the class, I'llget the credit, all will be
well.
And so as time went on, I waslike, man, this class is
actually pretty cool.
Um, the content was starting tobe interesting, but really what
(07:16):
stood out to me is how welearned different qualities
within her class.
So in the intro to AG was kindof like FFA based, like kind of
like a, I guess, a funnel intoFFA, if you will.
And that was something that didnot interest me at all.
Um, and so as the class went on,we learned about public speaking
and presence and how to show upand work ethic.
And so as time went on, um, Idid some projects within the
(07:38):
class, and she looked at me oneday and was like, hey, like, I
really think you should be anFFA.
I think you should take thisproject and go and compete.
If you know anything about FFA,it's a lot of competitions, a
lot of things that help youskill build.
And so I was like, you knowwhat?
Yeah, sure.
Life sounds good.
So I did that my first year.
Um, it went okay.
And then after that, I washooked.
(07:59):
FFA was actually like myfavorite thing I did during my
high school years.
Um and so I thought that wasreally cool.
And just to be a part of FFA isjust really nice and to have a
leader like Mrs.
Alka was super great.
Um, my junior year, I would sayis like the summer between my
junior and senior year, she toldus that she was leaving.
(08:20):
And she had been at our schoolfor like, I want to say like 20
plus years.
So like her leaving was like abig deal.
Um, she wasn't retiring, she wasactually leaving the teaching
profession altogether.
So that is a 17-year-old who'slike really enjoys like being
with this person and having herin class and all these things.
I'm like heartbroken.
I'm like, oh my gosh, like thisis so upsetting.
(08:41):
Like, can't you just stay?
I have one more year left ofschool.
And she's like, no, like I needto, I need to do this.
And the whole entire time, like,she's very upset.
Like, and she didn't hide thatfrom us uh that she was upset
about leaving, but she was like,I need to, I need to do
something different.
And I was like, okay, and at 17years old, you don't really
think a lot about that, but Iwas like, okay.
(09:01):
So she did.
And after she left, she stillshowed up, she still
communicated with us, she stillshowed leadership and basically
showed that she was a goodperson.
So that went a long way.
Um, but then thinking more likein the present day, so um, I
currently work at BethanySeminary as a coordinator of
(09:21):
their Bethany Bull program.
I've actually only been thereabout four and a half months.
So I haven't been at Bethanyvery long.
Um, I've act I actually was apublic school teacher the last
three years since I graduatedcollege, and obviously I no
longer do that.
And so going into the teachingprofession, I don't know if you
guys know, but it's kind of aninteresting area to be right now
(09:42):
for a lot of people, even likesuper seasoned veteran teachers.
And so by about year two, I waslike, you know what?
I'm not sure if this is this isfor me for numerous reasons.
Love the kids, but it's it's ahard place to be.
And so year three, I moved to adifferent school, try that out.
Maybe it's just the school I wasat.
(10:03):
Maybe I need to try somethingdifferent.
Year three, I'm like, uh no, no,no, no, no, no.
I don't think this is it.
And year three is when they sayit gets a lot easier, which it
did in some aspects, but inothers, I'm like, how do people
do this for 30 years?
Like, this is this is a lot ofwork.
Um so I was really thinkingabout doing something else,
didn't know what I wanted to do.
I'm in my like mid-20s, I'm likekind of stressed.
(10:26):
I'm like, teaching is avocation.
So I'm like, what where do I go?
What do I do now?
And so wanting to leave teachingwas like really, really scary.
And so, and you work so hard toteach.
I mean, you have to do studentteaching and all of that stuff.
And so then I just got tothinking about it.
I'm like, you know, Miss Alkadid it.
She was here for 20 some years,that's all she knew, and she had
(10:50):
the courage to to do somethingdifferent for herself.
And so I've never told her, I'venever told her that.
But um, that really, I mean, shewas a leader by example and
didn't even realize that that'sthe example she was setting.
So that's why she's my leader.
SPEAKER_08 (11:05):
Yeah, that's an amazing story.
That's it, you know, what animpact she had on you.
And uh it you, I'm sure shedidn't realize it.
You know, she's just doing herjob, but what an amazing leader.
And then, you know, hear youreflect back on it, you know,
making that career changebecause she did.
So thank you for sharing thatstory.
SPEAKER_03 (11:24):
Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_08 (11:25):
It's amazing.
Yeah.
What about you, Brian?
What do you have?
When you you there's somebodyout there who who was it?
Who was that leader for you?
SPEAKER_01 (11:33):
Well, when I was in my uh early teen years, there
was a gentleman that uh youwould see on TV commercials.
Uh, some of you may not evenknow the name, but Lee Akoka, he
would spent the majority of hiscareer uh with Ford Motor
Company.
And in 1978, he was uh selectedto be the new CEO of Chrysler,
(11:54):
who at the time was facingbankruptcy.
Uh just a huge amount ofproblems within that
corporation.
But when he came on TV, andagain, I'm in my early teens,
and I see this guy say, lead,follow, or get out of the way.
And and there was just somethingabout that statement that I
connected with, really didn'tknow why.
(12:14):
Um I I think of that statementdifferently now than I did then,
but I guess what I reason I wantto bring that up is that really
resonated with me.
Uh, the thought of lead, follow,or get out of my way.
And I think that was somethingkind of instilled in me.
Um where that comes from, Idon't know.
(12:35):
Call it God given.
But today, when I think aboutthat statement, it's almost like
an admonition.
If you're gonna lead, if you sayyou're gonna lead people, then
be a leader.
But if you are a but if you'renot gonna lead, you say you do,
(12:56):
and there's a lot of people outthere that say I'm gonna lead,
but they're not leaders.
You need to get out of the wayor follow.
And so to me, that was the thefirst real, I guess,
introduction to what what whatleadership is.
Maybe a little bit of an unusualexample, but that that's the
first time I ever heard thisconcept of of leading and
(13:17):
following.
SPEAKER_08 (13:18):
Yeah.
Lee Coca, yeah, that's a that'sa famous name for sure.
All right, we've got somebody atthe hot seat.
Again, talking about leadershipand uh and all those good
things.
Ben, who who's someone that youthink of when you think of that
leader that influenced you inwhatever way, who's that person
(13:39):
for you?
SPEAKER_10 (13:40):
So mine was always the my coaches growing up.
That was the first sense, likeuh we talked about before.
That's funny.
During football season, I hadpoor leadership where it just
wasn't consistent, right?
Yeah, you come into Dixie andthere's 13 kids, and then it's
like, yeah, I did not sign upfor this for high school sports.
So then they'd get out.
So there's no continuity andeverything, but the the
basketball coaches from middleschool um all the way up to high
(14:02):
school.
It was just the people thatinstilled that trust, that that
leadership of uh wordscountability.
Um, you know what I mean?
Like they were always held youaccountable no matter what.
And I really learned from them.
SPEAKER_08 (14:13):
Yeah, accountability is key.
And I think that's we talkedabout that with the group
earlier, just about how there'snot a lot of accountability in
today's age for whatever reason.
I don't know if people areafraid to step on other people's
toes, but you know, especiallylike we talked about in youth
sports, like when you hold kidsaccountable, if there's rules
and they they don't follow, theybreak those rules, hold them
(14:33):
accountable.
Yep.
Right.
And that's how you grow is fromlearning from your mistakes.
So um, so yeah, that's you know,for me, when when I think of
this question, you know, I Italked about it earlier.
I think about my former collegefootball coach, Mike Kelly.
You know, he was someone who wasenthusiastic.
He always held peopleaccountable, and he was always
(14:55):
prepared.
And those lessons that I, youknow, I didn't realize it at the
time, it's kind of like Mary,you know, you when you're around
certain Peter people who have,you know, just amazing
leadership, you don't evenrealize it.
You know, you're but you'relearning so many valuable things
along the way.
And uh his enthusiasm foreverything that he did, whether
(15:16):
it was, you know, just me andhim sitting at his his office,
he was enthusiastic in hisconversation, his excitement for
me to get better the next year.
He would hold us accountable.
There were rules that we had tofollow.
And if we broke those rules, wewere held accountable.
There were consequences, and youhad three strikes.
And that third strike, if youhad a third strike on the team,
you were off the team.
(15:36):
You know, that's a big deal.
SPEAKER_10 (15:37):
Yep.
SPEAKER_08 (15:38):
Um, and then he was always prepared.
I mean, preparation,preparation, preparation.
That's why we were successful.
That's why he was successful,that's why he is in the NCAA
Hall of Fame, you know, becauseof the success that he had in
his career.
SPEAKER_10 (15:52):
And you can tell that it, you know, that shaped
you because that's the way thatyou lead, right?
Always try to attack it withenthusiasm, always hold people
accountable, and you're alwaysprepared.
SPEAKER_08 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's that's that's key.
So when Brian, when we talkabout leadership and we talk
about uh, you know, thosecertain people, you know, we
kind of broke down the theone-word answer, but how would
you say that you lead in yourbusiness, in your family life,
(16:21):
in your nonprofit?
Are they all the same leadershipstyles or do those change?
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
No, I I I can't say that I have a single leadership
style that works across all ofthose different fronts.
You know, the way I would haveraised my daughters, obviously
going to be much different thanthe way I try to lead employees,
um, any other uh perhaps boardwhere it's more of a
collaborative uh scenario.
So I I think to me, leadershipneeds to be able to be flexible
(16:49):
based on the situation or thecircumstance, also uh uh with
each individual.
So um I I think you need to beable to understand who you are
at your core, uh let that be aguiding principle, but then when
uh uh analyzing who I'm with,what what's the mission?
Each organization has differentmissions, and so tailoring that
(17:12):
leadership style to to fit uhwho it is that we are leading.
SPEAKER_08 (17:17):
Let's talk about, and we talked about it with the
group earlier, work lifebalance.
And I thought your answer waswas good to the group.
So let's let's share that againwith our listeners.
When, you know, that that was apopular term, whatever, and
whenever it came out, you know,work-life balance.
You got to be balanced in allthe things that you do, which
(17:38):
you know, my feel I mean, Ithink balance balance is
bullshit in my mind, pardon myFrench, but I I think that's
what it is.
It's you know, it's all aboutbeing present in whatever you're
doing.
So when I'm at work, I ampresent at work.
When I'm at home with my family,I am present with my family.
If I'm with our our youthbasketball team, I'm present
with them.
I think it's more about beingpresent than about being
(17:59):
balanced.
So talk about work-life balance.
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
Yeah, we probably started hearing that term about
a decade ago.
And at first, I really uh jumpedonto that because with what I
was going through in my life,you know, very busy, a lot of
activities, a lot of obligationsand responsibilities, that that
has a toll.
I mean, it it gets tiring, um,you feel stretched, um, uh, it
(18:24):
can wear you down mentally,physical, physically.
So I put a lot of thought intothat.
And what I came to is this pointof where I was actually
brutalizing myself because I Ifelt like in order to serve one
group, my family, uh, mybusiness, my employees, somebody
was getting robbed.
Maybe it was my extended family.
(18:45):
And so there was a lot of guiltassociated with that.
Uh, but I I've spent more timethinking about what does it mean
to be aligned in my life ratherthan uh focusing on balance.
We're gonna have instances whereget whatever uh whatever it is,
we might be giving more time andattention to that uh in a
(19:06):
24-hour period.
That's okay.
But am I fully aligned with whatI'm doing?
And to me, alignment is seekingthose things that not only
fulfill you, but you are lookingat what's most important in my
life and what am I willing tonot give up.
I call that the non-negotiables.
(19:27):
So with our routines, patterns,and habits, what am I doing
today?
How am I spending my time inorder to fulfill whatever goal
that might be, whether it's inservice to others, uh service to
my family, then also looking atwhat am I, what am I doing, what
am I spending my time with todaythat doesn't serve anyone,
(19:50):
doesn't even serve me.
I have to be honest with myselfand be willing to say, I'm gonna
have the discipline to get thatpart out of my life because it's
not serving anyone, it's wastedtime and being aligned so that I
can um not feel overwhelmed, notbe overly stressed, and then
live the life that I feel likeI'm called to live.
SPEAKER_10 (20:13):
Yeah.
And I feel like once you havethat alignment set, everything
will flow underneath it.
Like you're what you call it,you're non-negotiable.
So like the same thing with me.
If I'm on my deathbed, that'sthe way I look at it, right?
My last breath, and I'm lookingback.
All right, well, the number onething is I want to make sure I'm
faithful.
Like my faith is my number onething, and so that's my top.
The next one, I want to be thebest husband I can be for Lisa,
(20:34):
right?
End of the day, that's my goal.
I want to be the best husband Ican be.
And then after that, it's mykids.
Like nobody comes before my kidsbesides my wife and my guy.
That's it.
And then after that, you know,help one person.
Like no matter what I do, I'mserving someone.
And that goes back to my faith,though, right?
Like that's who I try to go myleadership from, servant leader,
(20:56):
the ultimate one.
So I feel like once I alignthose top, I feel like
everything else, you know, willbe all into place.
SPEAKER_08 (21:03):
Yeah, that's great.
That's all good stuff.
All right, back out into theroom.
Mark.
SPEAKER_09 (21:09):
Hey, I have Viva here.
She wants to share another storywith us about uh leadership.
SPEAKER_11 (21:15):
Yeah, so um, my name is Eva Morata.
I work at Erlum College, I'm theassociate director of community
relations.
And one thing I love so muchabout my job is that I get to
help strengthen the community.
And the way I grew up, I movedaround a whole lot and didn't
have a steady community that Icould lean on for support in
many ways.
And so, because of that,sometimes I have a hard time
(21:35):
thinking about leadership, whohas been a leader for me.
And beyond just celebrities andpeople whose books I read, I
think the one person I keepcoming back to is my aunt.
Um, her name is Deborah.
And she was always a person thatI could count on as a mentor and
a role model throughout my life.
Um, she was somebody that Ialmost hate to say it, but has
(21:57):
sort of that work-life alignmentthat you all were talking about.
Of course, she does overextendherself, but she was able to
find how her passion alignedwith um both just her internal
motivation and also how tocultivate that into like an
external opportunity.
So she was always such a hardworker from a young age, holding
multiple jobs, setting herselfapart from sort of family
(22:21):
accepted um activities, if youwill.
Um, and she really cared for herfamily as well.
So she was the primary caregiverfor her grandparents, my
great-grandparents, and putherself on the line to make sure
they had care for the last yearsof their life.
Because of that, she startedstepping up in the care facility
where they were at.
And she saw problems and shetook that initiative to address
(22:44):
them.
And because of that, they hiredher as the director of the
assisted living facility,despite her being a high school
English teacher.
That was her full professionalbackground.
Um, so just like seeing herevolution throughout that role
and how much her care allowedher to step into that
professional position andfulfill her sort of love to our
(23:06):
grandparents and also to theother members of our community
who weren't necessarily gettingthat good leadership support was
incredible from that position.
She became the director of acommunity health organization.
And just seeing how she was ableto give back and through her
hard work and the skills thatshe worked so hard to cultivate,
she was able to lead thisorganization with an incredible
(23:26):
amount of just finesse.
And she's just someone I look upto so, so much in both
professional and personal.
Um, she also just was thepresident of the Rotary Club in
her area, and she oversaw um thedevelopment and installation of
a public art sculpture calledHeroes.
(23:47):
And it was about beyond just whoyou think about heroes being.
And uh, she asked the question: who is in your life who's a hero (23:51):
undefined
that isn't being recognized?
Is it teachers, is it medicalprofessionals, is it the people
who work really hardvolunteering?
Who is that?
And so she led the installationof that sculpture in the
community and just was able tooversee so many projects that
gave back to people beyondherself.
(24:12):
And she asked me, you know,questions that have definitely
turned me into who I am today,and one of which is, how can I
support you?
And that was a question that hadnever been asked to me.
And so thinking about that,knowing that she had that desire
to help me grow into the bestperson I could be, led me to
start asking those questions tothe people around me.
(24:34):
How can I support you?
How can I show up for you?
Um, and I think that's reallylike how leadership starts is
having somebody that you cansay, oh my gosh, you're doing
this, this, and this.
And I'd like to do that too.
And how can I learn from you inother ways?
And I really just think it goesback to that question of you
know, not overextendingyourself.
How do you find that alignmentbetween um work and personal?
(24:57):
And I think that's why you needto have a job that you love,
something that you you know umfills your cup every day.
So you can go home to yourfamily, your friends, your pets,
and uh be truly who you areinstead of just you know another
extension of your work persona.
So thanks for the opportunity totalk about these things.
It's exciting being here.
SPEAKER_08 (25:16):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Does she know how you feel abouther?
SPEAKER_11 (25:20):
I think I need to tell her explicitly, yeah.
SPEAKER_08 (25:23):
I think you just did, but I think it would be
important for you to share thatwith her because you know, as a
leader, sometimes it's it, youknow, there's a heavy burden,
right?
And you can feel the weight andyou feel the pressure and you
wonder, am I doing what I hope Ishould be doing?
You know, I I feel fulfilled, Ifeel like I'm helping people,
but you know, you don't alwayshear it as a leader.
You know, a lot of times as aleader, as part of that burden,
(25:46):
you get all the negative stuff.
So I think it would be good.
Now, I mean, you just told herbasically here, but I think it
would be good to have thatconversation just to uh, you
know, to let her know howimpactful she's been to you.
SPEAKER_11 (25:58):
Yeah, I definitely will.
And I think, you know, theemotional labor of being a good
leader is definitely there.
So it goes, you know, unseen alot of the time.
So if you have a good leader inyour life, let them know.
Thank them.
So I'll definitely do that forher.
SPEAKER_01 (26:12):
That's a great point.
Uh, just a couple of days ago, Ireceived a text message from uh
someone that I've known for over30 years, out of the blue, just
kind of random, uh 5'10 yet.
I think it might have beenyesterday morning, actually.
And um uh I won't go into whathe said.
It's um uh I guess for me, Idon't I don't want to I I don't
(26:32):
need a lot of affirmation.
I certainly don't need to shareit with others, but just the
thought that he took time out ofhis morning, I was on his mind,
and the thoughts that he sharedwith me about how much he
appreciates me, um, that justreally set my day up really
well.
Because, you know, I think youyou're right, uh, she mentioned
uh sometimes the the the greatburden we have as leaders and
(26:56):
sometimes it's very uhthankless.
Uh so it is good to uh asleaders to reach out and
acknowledge those that we do seethat are doing great things
behind behind the scenes.
SPEAKER_08 (27:06):
Yeah, I agree.
And you know, that's one thing Ireally, really try to do every
morning is I try to send a text.
Uh a lot of times what I'll dois I'll send a video message um,
you know, to someone that maybeI haven't talked to in a while
because I feel like that'sthat's more impactful, that's
more personable.
(27:27):
Um and and so I would encourageany of you out there, whether
you're in a leadership positionor you're not, is just to reach
out to those people that maybehave been a leader to you and to
say, hey, I just want you toknow, thank you for what you you
know, what you've done in mylife, and and uh you know, just
show that appreciation.
I think that's important.
SPEAKER_01 (27:47):
I'm trying to get better at that.
SPEAKER_08 (27:48):
Yeah, it's it's a hard thing to do again because
we get so busy.
But Mark, we got somebody elseat the table?
SPEAKER_09 (27:53):
Yeah, I have Lindsay here.
She stepped up, she has a fewquestions or mainly one question
for the group of you three.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
He just looked at the full page of questions I
have, but I picked the best one.
Um I'm Lindsay Freed.
I work for the Housing Authorityhere in Richmond.
I'm the family self-sufficiencycoordinator, um, which means I
do case management andfundraising and kind of wear a
million hats.
Um of the things that's been sothe most beneficial for me about
this conversation is being inthis room of business owners and
(28:23):
young professionals talkingabout that experience of
realizing that we'veoverextended ourselves, right?
That we're doing too much, thatour plate is too full, and
trying to set boundaries andmake sure that we're serving the
folks we want to serve as wellas we can.
Um, I think one of the mostchallenging things for me about
doing that is when I encounter amoment where as a leader, I have
(28:45):
to enforce, or I have to firesomeone, or I have to terminate
a resident from housing, orterminate someone from the
program that I run.
When I have to be that enforcer,I really feel the burden of
leadership.
And I'm wondering for you folks,what's the conversation that you
have with yourself when you needto talk yourself into I need to
(29:07):
do something that might hurtthis person in a way that I know
is ultimately going to be goodfor them, but it's hard to take
that step.
How do you have thatconversation with yourself when
you have to be that enforcer andand you feel the burden of
leadership that way?
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
So to answer that, I feel like you have to analyze
what what's the right decision.
And I think a lot of times weknow in our heart what the right
decision is.
That doesn't make it easy.
Um but if we want to serve thatperson, maybe it's terrible
news.
Like, for example, you mentioneduh evicting someone.
(29:45):
Dan, I think just uh veryrecently you you terminated
someone within your company.
Uh that's not an easy thing, butuh is it the right thing?
And and who knows?
You know, several years agothere was an individual that
worked for me.
Uh he was Very young, kind ofcocky, very arrogant, huge ego.
(30:05):
And he was just making severalmistakes one after the other.
And I finally, and we talkedabout those mistakes.
And uh one day I just realizedthis is not gonna change.
So did the very, I mean, it wasa very hard thing to do.
I worked side by side with himfor probably two years, um, had
to terminate.
And about five years ago, whichso I'm I'm talking, this is
(30:29):
going back almost 30 years.
About about five years ago, thisindividual came to me and he
said, I I I gotta share thiswith you.
And I thought, oh no, I'm notsure how this is gonna go.
But he said, that was the bestthing that you could have ever
done for me.
Um, he said, I needed that.
So sometimes we can't see at inthe moment that that's going to
(30:50):
be the best outcome for thatperson, but having the courage
to do what's right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:56):
Thank you.
That's a great answer.
SPEAKER_08 (30:57):
Yeah, and it and it that is a hard thing.
But that's, you know, I I didshare that uh story with with
the group earlier about havingto let someone go.
That was um again, you know,when when you're a leader and
and one of my biggest strengthsis caring for people.
You obviously have a caringheart, and and some of the
decisions that you have to make,whether it's letting someone go
(31:18):
or or something as serious asevicting someone from their
home, like that's heavy.
That's very, very difficult.
But when you're to that point,there's a reason you're at that
point.
And you have to look at likewhat Brian said, you have to
look at what is the best thingfor our organization, for
ultimately, maybe for thesepeople, right?
(31:39):
If you're letting someone go,like there needs to be a change.
And that's what I came to acouple of weeks ago with with
what I had to do, because I wassick about doing it.
I was sick, but I I knew that itwas affecting my team.
And ultimately, that this wasthe decision that had to be made
to for the betterment of ourbusiness.
(32:02):
And um it's never easy.
You know, again, that's theburden of leadership.
And if you're going to be inthat position, you've got to
expect that there's gonna be alot of times, uh, more often
than not, where you're gonnafeel that anxiety, you're gonna
feel that stress and thatpressure.
(32:23):
Uh, it's not comfortable, youknow, it's it's not a
comfortable situation foranyone.
Um, so you know, it's just doingwhat's right for the
organization as a whole.
And I and I think ultimately, inmost cases, it's probably right
for that individual.
Maybe in your situation, it'sright for that family.
They got to get a change to getout of whatever that environment
(32:44):
is.
Um, but it's still it's tough,it's very difficult.
SPEAKER_02 (32:49):
Yeah.
Great question.
Thank you.
And I I think earlier when youjust you were telling your story
about having to let someone goand mentioned, described this.
You're, I think it was your wordexactly that this was the burden
of leadership that hit me reallyhard because I this is kind of
the toughest part for mepersonally.
SPEAKER_08 (33:05):
Yeah.
unknown (33:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_08 (33:06):
If you don't want to be a leader and you don't want
to be, you don't want to feelthat that pain, then take a step
back and let somebody else doit.
But I can tell everybody in thatroom, you know, they they want
they're hard, hard chargers,they're dry, they want to get
better, they want to besuccessful, and that's that's a
that's what being a leader is.
SPEAKER_02 (33:22):
Yeah, we're all in it here.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_08 (33:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_09 (33:26):
A follow-up question I had from uh some people that
submitted some questions to mewas how do you tell a good
leader from a bad leader?
Sometimes people get labeled agood leader, but they're really
a bad leader.
SPEAKER_01 (33:39):
To me, that's kind of a simple one.
Um a good leader is somebody Iwant to follow.
A bad leader, I do not want tofollow.
I'll do about anything to nothave to follow somebody like
that.
SPEAKER_10 (33:52):
From an outside, you can just look at the culture a
lot of times.
The culture that's built there,how people treat each other.
A lot of that's a reflection ofthe leadership.
That's what I would look at.
SPEAKER_08 (34:01):
Well, and I think, you know, titles mean nothing,
right?
Yeah, it doesn't matter whatyour title is, whether you're
president, CEO, CFO, whateveryou are, executive director,
that doesn't mean anything,right?
That just means that's theposition that you hold.
Um, there's plenty of leadersand and various companies that,
you know, maybe at the bottom ofthe totem pole financially in
(34:24):
that organization, but they'reactually a leader, you know.
Um, so um I don't titles meannothing to me as far as that
goes.
So yeah, that's a good question.
SPEAKER_02 (34:38):
I feel like I should say for the record that my
personal role, and I'm verygrateful for this at the housing
authority, does not mean that Ipersonally have to make the
whole decision of evictingsomebody.
Our public housing manager is anangel, and I adore her, and she
is more responsible for those.
And of course, we haveregulations that guide us, but I
do have to make decisions about,you know, somebody participates
in this program that I run forthe housing authority that gives
(35:00):
folks access to case managementand support and funding.
And if I have to terminatesomeone, it's tough.
So I really appreciate you guyssharing this wisdom.
SPEAKER_08 (35:09):
And yeah, I wouldn't say wisdom, just experience.
What's the difference?
It's true.
SPEAKER_09 (35:18):
All right.
We're switching out real quickhere, but I have Katie and she
has a question for the group.
SPEAKER_01 (35:30):
Hi, Katie.
SPEAKER_03 (35:31):
Hi.
SPEAKER_08 (35:35):
Tell us your name and the organization you work
for.
SPEAKER_04 (35:39):
My name is Katie Stephen and I work for Read
Health.
SPEAKER_08 (35:44):
Question you have for us.
SPEAKER_04 (35:47):
So when it comes to leadership and constructive
criticism, receiving as well asgiving, um, I want tips and
tricks on that because I wouldlike to think I receive
criticism well.
I'm not an outsider looking in.
And so um, and I also have togive constructive criticism
(36:07):
often.
So everything you can tell me.
SPEAKER_01 (36:14):
All right, I'll answer that.
That's almost um, I'm gonna giveyou two different answers.
So, first of all, the way yougive construction constructive
criticism, how do you like toreceive it?
Because we all need it, we maynot want it, but if I'm good, if
if I need it, how do I like toreceive it?
So, in other words, the way thatothers have have approached me
(36:36):
and it went well and you took itwell, you use that.
But then also I think you needto look at the individual.
Um we're dealing with withhumans, we have personalities,
uh, we're we're all different.
And so I think probablytailoring that criticism that's
needed given on a case-by-casebasis, because ultimately, what
(36:58):
do you want?
You want the best outcome forwhatever that situation is.
Uh so I don't think it's a onesize fits all.
SPEAKER_08 (37:05):
I'll tell you how I deal with it.
I I what I try to do like withbusiness or even if it's just
like the kids, is I I always tryto say, hey, put yourself in
this person's situation.
You know, if this happened, whydid it happen?
(37:26):
Were they raised differently?
What's their home life like?
You know, there's all thesedifferent things.
Don't know other people'ssituations.
So if if you can can takewhatever that criticism is, I
call it coaching.
You just you say, okay, youknow, why did Brian react the
way that he reacted?
You know, why did he get upsetabout this or get upset?
(37:47):
You don't know what his day waslike, right?
So let's let's talk thatthrough.
I think it's really important toconnect with people.
And and a lot of times that'sbeing vulnerable.
You know, that's beingvulnerable with that person.
And maybe you share a story,maybe whatever you're um you're
coaching or you're criticizingsomeone or having a
(38:07):
conversation, maybe you share astory with them that's happened
to you that you be and you kindof break that ice, and then you
turn it and you say, Okay, youknow, this happened the other
day.
No, why did this happen?
Can we talk through this?
What's going on at home orwhat's going on beyond work?
Is there something else going onhere?
(38:28):
And try to make that connection.
I think when you can connectwith people by being vulnerable,
I think that's when thingschange for the better.
And it doesn't mean you'realways gonna make that person's
not gonna get it all the time.
But I think if you if if youshow them that you're open and
you're vulnerable and you'rehonest in your conversation,
(38:49):
that you're gonna find thatthey're gonna be more open and
honest.
And I think the outcome in mostcases will be better.
Right.
Um, so that's that's how I tryto do it, especially with my
family, with my kids.
You know, when they come homeand they talk about such and
such did this at school today.
Well, what do they go home to?
You know, I just don't know.
SPEAKER_10 (39:11):
Yeah, my big thing with receiving, and it's gonna
be hard to talk like this andtry to look, I'll look at you on
the TV screen.
But no, uh the big thing for meis I think it comes from like a
relationship standpoint on how Ireceive and and give criticism,
right?
Like I feel like in order for meto receive criticism a lot of
times, what's the either liketheir position or be like,
(39:32):
what's my relationship withthem?
Because some people have thecriticism, it's like, well, do I
want to be like you?
Like, do I want that criticismto come from there?
Like if you have a relationshipwith them and you know the type
of person they are, I feel likeit's easier to receive.
And obviously it's easier togive, right?
If you feel like you have arelationship with someone,
(39:52):
they're gonna be more likely toaccept that because they know
where it's coming from.
Like they know that you care forthem if you have a relationship
with them.
Um, I feel like a lot of timescriticism comes and you don't
know who it is and it justdoesn't mean anything, you know.
So I feel like if you reallywant to be a good leader, have a
relationship with them, and thenthe criticism will be received a
lot easier.
SPEAKER_08 (40:10):
Well, like with you, you know, you're in our
relationship.
Right.
I mean, I can be pretty bluntwith you, yeah, you know,
because we have thatrelationship and you know you're
not gonna take it personal.
Right.
But there's other people thatyou can't do that with.
You gotta build that connection.
You gotta, you know, you gottashow that you care.
I think, I think when you showpeople that you care and you're
you're vulnerable withwhatever's going on, I think
(40:31):
that's where true connection andtrue change happens for the
better.
So I don't know if that answersyour question, but no, that
helps for sure.
SPEAKER_04 (40:39):
I think that individuals that I've received
criticism from, it comes from aplace of their heart that's
light, and that along comes withgood leadership.
And so I have had individualsthat have been great leaders and
have taught me in a way to thenkind of deliver the same way I
received, to your point.
Um, but I always like quit likesecond guess myself and question
(41:02):
myself like, am I doing it thebest way?
Or is there a thousand differentways?
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
I think you you'll know by the way it's received if
they and if they feel that youtruly care and that you want the
very best for them, keep that inmind.
And it nine times out of ten isgoing to be taken well.
But they have to know it's allit's only because you care and
you're passionate about them.
SPEAKER_04 (41:29):
All right.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_08 (41:30):
Yeah.
Good question.
Mark, you got anything else toadd out there?
Does anybody else want to comeup to the mic?
SPEAKER_09 (41:40):
I'm just looking over my notes here.
I have another uh one that wassent to me is that leadership
and growth happens the most whenno one's watching.
And that's hard to understandwhen it's leadership because in
today's world, leadership yousee in books, you see it in
podcasts, you see it on TV,social media, millions of
(42:02):
followers, whatever it is.
But whatever happens in thosemoments when no one's watching,
as long as you keep repeatingthat, maybe it's a tough
conversation.
Maybe it's showing up every dayto go for a walk.
Maybe it's just getting out ofbed five minutes early every
day.
(42:22):
You used to show up late towork, now you're not.
Then you're emulating whatleadership would be.
So this person said leadershipis what happens most when no one
else is watching.
So I thought that was remarkablebecause that is so true about
not just leadership, but life ingeneral.
Michael Jordan didn't shoot freethrows in front of thousands of
(42:43):
people.
He shot them in his backyard ina rim that didn't even have a
net.
Same thing with many others inthe world.
No one was watching, and thenwhen they showed up, they were
ready to play.
SPEAKER_08 (42:54):
Well, you got a perfect example.
You just recently, you and yourwife just completed 75 hard,
right?
And, you know, you talk about achallenge, uh, doing things when
nobody's watching.
You know, talk about talk aboutthat transformation for you,
maybe not just physically, butmentally, because of all those
things that you did when no oneelse was watching.
SPEAKER_09 (43:16):
Yeah, and that's about emulating habits because I
wanted to change my mind.
I needed to have a growthmindset of just completely
changing not just my householdor myself, but as also the
community.
When you become overwhelmed,when you become not the person
you exactly want, um you knowwhere you want to go.
(43:36):
Um, it really started about twoyears ago.
Brian and I had a conversation,and he and I were both on this
complete growth mindset.
We were reading books likecrazy.
Um, I came across 75 hard, andthat is two workouts a day.
I am not a morning person.
So for about two weeks, I wastexting Dan saying, Hey, I'm up,
and it's before the sun comesup.
(43:57):
If I said I did that for twoweeks in a row, you'd have been
like, What happened to you,Mark?
Um, I was up this morning anddid it again, and now I'm after
the 75, it's built in.
Same thing with the diet, samething with a lot, but then when
you do that, it goes over toyour leadership and the people
around you.
Now there's members on the teamthat are like, well, look at
Mark.
Now I've had three people thatdo 75 hard right now.
(44:19):
Um, maybe it's reading a book.
Being a mentor in Wayne CountyLeeds is truly changing, not
just for the person, but alsothe mentor, because you're
reading the books with them.
I've read the same Atomic Habitsbook with every person that I've
done.
This is my third person now.
Every time that book impacts me,different.
Um, because it's differentstories.
(44:40):
The person I'm mentoring isdifferent each time.
Um, so that helps them just tosee that growth.
SPEAKER_01 (44:47):
So to me, Mark, what you're describing is taking
ownership of your own personalintegrity.
You know, I feel like it's soeasy, or it's easier, maybe
that's a better way to put it.
It's easier to display integritywith others when they're
watching, but it's a wholenother story when you hold
yourself accountable to your ownpersonal integrity.
(45:08):
And to me, you only do that inthe dark or when no one else is
watching.
And that is where we developroutines, patterns, habits that
define who we are and wherewe're going.
SPEAKER_08 (45:25):
Yeah, that's a great point.
And and that's what that's oneof the big things I harp on with
my kids.
You know, I have five kids.
Uh, my oldest is in college, allthe way down to my 10-year-old
son.
And we had my senior daughter,Leah, on the podcast here a
couple of weeks ago.
And that was one of the thingsthat uh she had mentioned.
I think you had asked her aquestion about one thing that
(45:45):
stuck with her that that I hadtaught her.
And she said, you know, you madethe comment to me a couple of
years ago that, you know, youneed to do things like people
are watching when they're not.
You know, you need to be uh holdyourself accountable in in your
workouts or in your school, youknow.
When when people aren'twatching, like what are you
(46:06):
doing?
You need to pretend that theyare watching uh because
ultimately that's gonna be whereyou have success, maybe in
sports, like in for her case, itwas soccer, or you're not.
You know, what what'd you dowhen no one was watching?
Um so yeah, that's that's umthat's yeah, super important,
super impactful for sure.
(46:28):
And obviously, you know, I thinktwo of us at this table have
done 75 hard.
I don't know that the third guyhas.
SPEAKER_10 (46:34):
I went to Dixie, I can't count, but one, two, oh,
oh, that guy.
Oh, he's trying to pressure him.
SPEAKER_08 (46:44):
No, Dan doesn't do that.
SPEAKER_10 (46:45):
Come on, Brian.
SPEAKER_08 (46:46):
He knows I'm going hard.
I know you are.
I'm not a bully most of thetime.
Mark, we got anything else outthere you want to add?
Any questions anybody else hasbefore we close this thing out?
SPEAKER_09 (46:58):
We do not have anything else out here.
We've been at this now, I thinkthe podcast maybe an hour, but
before that was maybe an hourand a half in length.
So when you're two and a halfhours of truly good
conversation, and this is thenext generation of leaders, um,
for a whole community to have 13people together and pour into it
(47:20):
like this.
This this program is not justtoday, it's not just us four.
It's for three months.
Not many communities can saythat they just pour into their
um next generation like that.
So to be selected for it is big,but now to take the next step in
growth is even bigger.
SPEAKER_08 (47:36):
So, for future, for those that maybe want to get
involved in the Wayne Countyleads, what do people need to do
to contact Chamber?
How do they how do they get intouch to maybe be a part of this
program in the future?
SPEAKER_09 (47:49):
Yeah, so you could reach out to the Wayne County
area chamber.
The nominations they are that toapply would come out in July
every year.
And then after that, it goes toa selective committee, and that
committee then selects who isactually part of it.
So this is the fifth year of it.
So when you think about fiveyears of people, 10 to 15
people, that's over 50 pluspeople that you are grooming to
(48:12):
be the next leaders of thecommunity.
Um, and that's right now they'rebeing on boards and and
investing in and pouring inlearning from people in ways
that you probably wouldn't be inthe same room with, to be
honest.
Um, that's remarkable.
SPEAKER_08 (48:28):
Yeah, from all walks of life, from all different uh
organizations in the community,uh, it's a great thing that that
our our chamber does.
And so I appreciate you reachingout to be a part of this.
It's been pretty awesome.
I know for myself, for Brian,for Ben uh to be in here and to
to meet all these these youngadults and and uh to be
(48:48):
inspired.
It's it's it's you know it'samazing.
We hear a lot of negativethings, right?
In a small community, you hearnegative, negative, negative.
But when you come into a roomlike this with people like this,
it's inspiring.
And uh so so thank you for forrecommending this.
Kevin, thanks for putting allthis together and letting
everybody be up here with GlobalMedia Enterprise.
We always appreciate our uhexecutive producer.
SPEAKER_10 (49:11):
Thank you, executive producer, Kevin.
Don't say executive PP.
SPEAKER_08 (49:17):
All right.
Hey, leadership is not a title,it's a choice.
Every single day you get todecide will I be somebody others
can count on?
Will I make someone's lifelighter today?
Will I walk into the room withpurpose?
Leaders aren't born, they'reformed through fire, through
failure, through little choicesthat build character.
(49:39):
Invite them to stay connected,continue to support the show,
continue to give us all thatsupport, those likes, those
shares, all those good things.
And uh check out the WayneCounty Chamber of Commerce and
all the good things that they'redoing in our community.
Brian, we appreciate you beinghere again.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_10 (49:58):
I always love it.
SPEAKER_08 (49:59):
Yeah, and Ben, thank you too.
SPEAKER_10 (50:01):
Hey, thank you, Dan.
Hey, and don't forget on ourwebsite now we officially have
merchandise that is a lot.
SPEAKER_08 (50:07):
Yeah, we've got and we got some exciting news to
come.
We're not going to share rightnow, but it's coming.
But yeah, if you go tobetempered.com, there's a gear
tab.
We've got some pretty cool uhswag up there that uh someone
has designed.
Swag, yeah.
Big time.
SPEAKER_10 (50:24):
So six seven.
SPEAKER_08 (50:26):
We're not going there.
All the teachers in the roomjust cringed.
All right, everybody.
Thanks for your support.
Go out and be tempered.
SPEAKER_00 (50:35):
Hi, my name is Allie Schmidt.
This is my dad Dan.
He owns Catrin's Glass.
SPEAKER_07 (50:40):
Thanks, Allie.
Things like doors and windows gointo making a house.
But when it's your home, youexpect more, like the great
service and selection you'll getfrom Catrin's Glass.
Final replacement windows fromCatrins come with a lifetime
warranty, including accidentalglass breakage replacement.
Also ask for custom shower doorsand many other products and
services.
The 962-1636, locally owned withlocal employees for nearly 30
(51:01):
years.
SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Patrons Glass, a clear choice.
SPEAKER_06 (51:05):
I want to share something that's become a big
part of the Beatempered mission: Patreon. (51:07):
undefined
Now, if you've never used itbefore, Patreon is a platform
where we can build communitytogether.
It's not just about supportingthe podcast, it's about having a
space where we can connect on adeeper level, encourage one
another, and walk this journeyof faith, resilience, and
perseverance side by side.
(51:28):
Here's how it works.
You can join as a free memberand get access to daily posts,
behind the scenes updates,encouragement, and some things I
don't always put out on otherplatforms.
And if you feel called tosupport the mission financially,
there are different levels whereyou can do that too.
That support helps us keepproducing the podcasts, creating
gear, hosting events, andsharing stories that we believe
(51:51):
can truly impact lives.
And here's the cool part.
Patreon has a free app you candownload right on your phone.
It works just like Facebook orInstagram, but it's built
specifically for our community.
You'll be able to scroll throughposts, watch videos, listen to
content, and interact withothers who are on the same
journey.
At the end of the day, thisisn't just about content, it's
(52:12):
about connection.
It's about building somethingtogether.
Not just me and Ben putting outepisodes, but a family of people
committed to growing strongerthrough real stories and real
faith.
So whether you just want to hopon as a free member or you feel
called to support in a biggerway, Patreon is the door into
that community.
Because at the heart of BeTempered has always been simple
(52:34):
real stories, raw truth,resilient faith, so that even
one person out there that hearswhat they need to hear, and
Patreon helps make thatpossible.
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