Raised in Violence, Fueled by Addiction, Saved by Sobriety

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, welcome back to Beyond the Monsters.
Today I have Charles here who lives right here in Franklin, Tennessee, and he has acelebration today.
What is today?
Three years.
Three years.
Amazing.
It's amazing.
Such an accomplishment.
Well, we're going to have him tell his story today um and how he overcame everything thathe has, especially all the work that he's done in the last three years.

(00:27):
So go ahead, Charles.
It's all you.
I don't even know where to start.
ah
with your childhood, like, you know, what you went through, you know, as a kid, which, youknow, that starts our mental health journey, you know, because you have to deal.

(00:58):
Okay, so, well, was born and raised in a really small town in southern Indiana calledFrench Lick.
ah It's famous for two things.
It's famous for Larry Bird.
And it's famous uh for an unusually large hotel for such a small town.

(01:20):
When I was growing up there, it was a very poor...
town, a lot of uh drug use, a lot of sort of just kind of white trash sort of mentality.
But m I'm one half of a twin.

(01:42):
For whatever reason, my mom uh raised my twin brother and my grandmother raised me.
We were
we were really poor, uh really poor.
we...
When I say poor, I'm talking about that sort of poor you see on TV, ah but no one reallykind of ever gets to experience.

(02:03):
know, it's like they know it's there in America somewhere, but you know, most people don'tever get to experience.
And that was us.
mean, government food lines, welfare, any sort of government uh subsidies.
ah We raised chickens and hogs.
We did the whole subsistent living thing.

(02:25):
Winters were particularly rough because we didn't have town water.
had actual spring water, so it would freeze a lot in the winter.
So we wouldn't even have running.
remember collecting snow a lot of times for water.
eh Yeah.
was, we were really poor.
ah my grandmother loved me though.
Um, you know, she did the best she could with the tools she had.

(02:48):
Um, she was extremely and devout in her religion.
Okay.
Right.
So one of the things that sort of separated me from the rest of my family was I wasalways.
uh
a little bit smarter than the rest of them, right?

(03:09):
And they could kind of see it, you know, and it sort of intimidated them.
But I would question things in the Bible that sort of just didn't make sense to me.
And my grandmother hated that.
I'm sure because the Bible was factual.
Right.
Like 100 % fact.

(03:30):
100%, which was its own form of sort of trauma, you know, later on.
Um, but I mean, I just sort of, I just kind of questioned a lot of what that looked like,you know, and we were, she was a very devout Catholic up until about eight years old and

(03:54):
her oldest daughter.
decided that she was going to become a Mormon.
And my grandmother was extremely upset with her.
I'm And she...
I remember the fight.
she called, I mean, she was irate and she called her, you know, every name in the bookand, and, you know, and the tragic part of this story is my aunt left and literally died.

(04:25):
Um, she was over medicated and fell down a flight of stairs.
Oh God.
So my grandmother in dealing with the trauma, um, believed that she was visited by Jesusand told her that Mormonism was the one true religion and immediately like, I mean,

(04:48):
athletic to Mormon.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a huge switch.
It's a huge switch.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
You know, but religion, you I had to come to kind of grips with that.
you know, my mother wasn't present a lot.
when she was, ah it was her inserting her sort of her dominance.

(05:13):
ah There were some, she was a very cruel woman.
My mother was.
So you're with grandma and your twin is with your mom.
Yes.
Growing up.
Do you ever remember, were you like super resentful of your mom because you were with yourgrandma and not with her or were you were you glad?

(05:35):
was glad.
OK.
was glad, very glad.
I didn't think about it from a resentment standpoint.
My mother scared me.
And I remember being afraid of her almost all the way up until about 15-ish where she justcouldn't...

(05:56):
So what kind of things were happening where you were so afraid of her?
For example, when I was a child, uh she came in and I was a young child.
uh She, we used to have to burn our trash, right?
couldn't, you know, we out in the, so uh she told us to pick up everything that was in theyard and put it in the fire.

(06:21):
Right.
And there was these fishing poles in the yard.
So I picked them up and put them in the fire and it.
upset her and she beat me with a burning fishing pole and caught my pant leg on fire and Ihave third degree burns like all over my left leg because of that.

(06:43):
I was young.
I was two going on three when that happened.
was Halloween.
It was Halloween day and she took me out of the hospital against medical advisement.
So that Jonathan, my twin could go trick or treating and it ended up getting infected andthey had to medevac me up to a burn unit in Indianapolis where I stayed.

(07:13):
I don't know how long I was there.
I still have memories of it.
And back when we were young like that, I don't think there was a lot that children'sservices weren't involved like they are today, right?
Not like they are today.
I remember them coming.
It was more from them thinking that mamaw was too old to raise me.

(07:37):
It wasn't that it was a protected environment or that there was love there.
But nothing ever really happened.
um
you know, from that perspective that I just remember my mom just being extremelyphysically and emotionally cruel.
Right you and

(07:59):
She would, it was mainly me.
I was the escape goat, right?
Like I don't know why she resented me.
think one, because my mom always fancied herself intelligent and she was, she was a smart,she was smart.
Like say what you want about her.
She was smart, but I think the fact that, she's seen that sort of in me that for somereason,

(08:26):
She just fixated on me now, not to say that Jonathan didn't get it every once in a while.
He did not, not to the extent that I did though.
Right.
And, that was obvious early on, right?
Like that was pretty obvious that there was a huge difference in favoritism between me andmy twin.

(08:50):
Right.
And so.
When I was, when I was a little older, the divide between my grandmother and me aboutreligion was becoming sort of prevalent because you ever, you ever see the old movie

(09:15):
Footloose, right?
Like no dance, right?
No music, no dancing.
Like that was kind of her.
Okay.
Right.
Like, and I had this creative side, this artistic side that was starting to come out andI, I, I craved music and I crave expansion, you know, and I'm all hated it.

(09:36):
Right.
And I called her mamal, but we all did, but mamal hated it.
we didn't have the good old headphones and earpieces back then.
No, it was...
Couldn't even sneak it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was, um, I remember it was, uh, you remember when Columbia did those sort of, you know,10 CDs for a penny.

(09:59):
Yeah.
I probably, Columbia some money, but like, yeah, I remember I managed to sneak somecassettes and one of them was, guns and roses, appetite for destruction.
I guess like 88, somewhere around in there.

(10:21):
And, she heard that and just flipped out.
She hated it.
And so I had a choice to make around 14 or so I had a choice to make.
it was, uh it was either stay with Mammal who, you know, sort of, you know, handicapped mefrom a creative perspective.

(10:46):
or go to mom where it was just almost ultimate freedom except moments of insanity.
Like mom didn't give a shit about it, right?
Like there was no, you know, anything, right?
Like there was just, her rules were ever flowing and changing and you needed to decide oneday to the next on what that looked like,

(11:09):
She's still trying to control you even at your grandma's house, even though you werethere.
No, still trying to make the rules.
Not really no She just sort of like I said that she would just Fly in and these sort ofmoments of insanity like it was just like she would just come in and then all of a sudden
just all hell would break right right like and it could be anything like you know it Imean Mammal could set her anything could just set her off right like but

(11:41):
So I decided somewhere around in that age that I was actually going to go live with mom,right?
Because it allowed the, was able to do things, right?
And I was 14, 15 ish and
but I was able to go out with my friends.
was able to listen to music.

(12:02):
Mom didn't have, say what you want about her, uh but when it came to music and movies andthat, she just didn't care.
Right, and you're a teenager, like weighing it out, I can go deal with mom and be able todo stuff and live a little.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So ah that was my choice.

(12:24):
OK, so the house in town, I remember it.
It was on Water Street.
And it was in terrible condition.
There was a hole in our bedroom that we would literally have to walk around, or you'dfall.
straight through down to the.

(12:44):
Wow.
Yeah.
Like, I mean, it was, it was bad.
And the worst part, like the worst part were the roaches, right?
Like, you know, and, and I mean, if anybody has ever had roaches, um, to this extent, theyknow exactly what I'm talking about, but you would open up like a cabinet and just

(13:07):
thousands of them scatter.
God.
I and I remember it like I was extremely sad this day after this event because I justdidn't understand why we had to live the way that we did.
Right.

(13:27):
And I didn't understand this.
You know, I was I didn't really understand the social.
ah
Hi, I guess or I didn't understand social environments very well.
You know, I was only 14 15 I was just sad because I you know, I got up to go to school andyou know, I was pouring a bowl of cereal got the milk, you know, I was always uh

(13:53):
really good about getting up and going to school, you know, where my brother wasn't, but Ipoured the cereal and I took a few bites and I looked down and these two roaches just sort
of popped up in the milk, you know, and I just, was so disgusted.
I'm talking about it now.
So it's obviously a memory, that's right.

(14:14):
So I just remember walking to school sad.
You know, we had to live the way that we did and I couldn't understand why my mom justcouldn't get a job like regular people.
um
You know, the other thing, you know, I need to, I really need to talk about, you know,when it comes to my family was, um, they were, they were very violent people, right?

(14:42):
Fighting was just a way of life, right?
My mom's rules were never snitch and never back down from a fight.
Right.
And she would literally, I remember I was messing around.
with this girl named Amber and she had a boyfriend named Chance Durbin.
I'll never forget it.

(15:03):
I don't know if I can say his name, but he literally came to, and he was a couple of yearsolder than me, a lot bigger than I was, right?
And I remember he came to the front yard and started calling me out.
in, right?
And my mom made me go out there and fight him.

(15:25):
Yeah, like the ass whooping you're gonna get in here will be worse than the ass whoopingyou're gonna go out to get out there.
Oh, yeah.
And, you know, know, backtrack.
What happened?
I gotta know what happened.
uh I, know, honestly, I went sort of spider monkey on him and he really didn't know whatto think.

(15:46):
Right.
Like, I mean, I just went like full on, which, you know, that actually comes into effectsort of later on, but,
You know, just because I was different from the rest of my family didn't mean that Ididn't have a little bit of that in.
Right.
Right.
So I just went full on bat shit, spider monkey and just flew into him and he didn't knowwhat to think, man.
I mean, I was all over him and I, actually.

(16:11):
Good.
Like I'm done.
It was, uh but that was sort of the violence of it aspect, right?
I remember earlier on too, uh just to qualify sort of the violence, I remember uh mysister uh coming in and she had just blood all over her, just all over her, right?

(16:38):
And she had literally just stabbed someone.
Right.
And, and just chaos, know, they were just constant.
just remember them scurrying around and trying to like figure out what, know, what theywere going to do.
The law was coming and all this, God, Dana's probably, I mean, I just turned 49.

(17:03):
Dana's...
63?
Okay, so she was an adult.
Yeah.
So, so the dynamic of the family was there were three older siblings from different dads.
And then ah there was Jonathan and I, and there was a 13 year age gap between the youngestsister and Jonathan and I.

(17:30):
So it was Dana, Teresa, and Kelly.
And they were
13, 15 and 17 years older than us.
was so John and I were kind of a, you know.
Surprise!
The oops babies.
Yeah.
But that so so the violence was like that and that carried on all throughout, you know, mymy childhood.

(17:58):
Right.
I couldn't even when there were things that happened that.
um
Wasn't in necessarily the family dynamic violence was still very much a part of it.
Like I don't like it just sort of happened right, you know, I and

(18:19):
And that probably seemed normal to you at that point because that's all you knew.
It did, but that's when I talk about being different from the rest of my family, was sortof all that I knew.
was the normalcy of the family, but I knew that that wasn't the normalcy of the world.

(18:41):
Like I knew that there was differences out there.
knew that there were choices to be made even early on.
Right.
Like I knew that if I wanted the nice jeans, if I wanted the nice shoes, I knew that I hadto go out there and actually work for it.
Right.
So I started kind of hustling at a young age, right?

(19:01):
Mowing lawns, doing what I could.
Um, so yes, I was sort of ingrained in it, but
there was that disconnect from the rest of my family.
They used to call me goody two shoes, uh stuck up, snobbish, Charlie thinks he's betterthan us, right?
See, I dealt with that too, the whole, you forget where you came from, know, the stucco,all that, same exact thing in my family.

(19:30):
So I can understand that.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was.
And, and so I, at some point I've kind of embraced that, um, because I was right.
So we, so we moved to French lick when I was right around 15 and French lick is myhometown.

(19:55):
Um, like I grew up in.
I grew up in Orange County and Orange County is made up of three towns, Orleans, Paoli andFrench Lick.
ah French Lick will always be my hometown.
that's where, right?
Like that's, that's sort of where I.
Butterflyed for lack of better terms, right?

(20:16):
um
Jonathan didn't change at all.
Jonathan was still Jonathan.
When I got to French Lick, I actually was popular at French Lick.
wasn't popular in the other town.
You know, I wasn't, but for some reason.
When I got to French Lick, I actually became popular, right?

(20:37):
Like the girls liked me, know, the guys liked me, you know, I was in drama and sports and,know, and there was no family supported any of those things, but I still was able to do
that.
You know, I dated the cheerleaders, right?
So then that was even further of the divide.
And that also spurred me on to want to do.

(21:01):
other things because these families seen the way I was being raised and grew up and theytook me in and you know, a lot of them, know, like there was, I have been able to find
love from other places other than family, right?
Right.

(21:21):
Throughout my life.
And that really came, that really came.
prevalent for lack of better words, uh, three years ago when I, when I entered into aright.
But, so we moved to French lick and, and, know, I'd like to say that everything was sortof rainbows and puppies after that, but it, know, it really wasn't right.

(21:47):
Like one of my, one of my best friends was, uh, murdered, you know, um, you know, say whatyou want about orange County, Indiana.
per capita, I guarantee you it's up there as far as like murders and suicides.

(22:09):
So Kevin Madley was his name and we were at Bueller's parking lot.
I was in ninth grade, so 15 is right.
So we, you know, I'd went back to, know, the other town, you know, just to, you know, seesome friends or whatever.

(22:32):
and it was just, something felt not right, you know, like you ever wake up and just sortof feel that, know, and this has happened a couple of times in my life.
but, um, basically Kevin got into a fight with a girl.

(22:52):
was dating Zach's boyfriend and.
Kevin won and we went back to Bueller's to celebrate Kevin's victory.
And we were all happy.
Kevin, Kevin was a bad ass.
He really was.
Kevin was, he was, he was tough, you know, and I still think about Kevin every once in awhile.
Um, but, uh, sure enough, we're sitting there and we see the guy's truck pull in theparking lot and

(23:18):
You know, it's like, my God, is he, you here for another ass whooping?
Right, right.
You know, and about that time the window came down and he shot Kevin point blank with ashotgun.
You know, we were, I was probably from here to there away from him when it, when ithappened.
And then the guy drove down the road and the guy drove down the road and turned a gun onhimself.

(23:42):
It was tragic all the way around.
You
Yeah, it really was.
And, you know, I'd like to say that that was the only murder in our high school, but itwasn't, you know, there was another kid named Lemuel Hickman who there wasn't, that kid
was off from day one, right?
Like he was just something like he would sit on the school bus just going, there's rocksin my socks or rock, right?

(24:07):
Like he was just an
odd right kid right
Well, there was, he, he couldn't make friends in his own age group.
So he would always play with like these younger kids.
And, um, he ended up beating a kid named Dexter Elker burger to death with a log.
Yeah.

(24:27):
Yeah.
Lemuel Hickman.
I'll never forget.
that was.
Yeah.
He was, he was off, you know, and kids, kids are cruel.
Yeah, I was like, he's he was probably like, that he was too, but so angry.
He had to be.
You know, when, you know, I don't know much about the, the, the trial thing.
You know, there were rumors going around, you know, that when they ask him why he did it,he just said he wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone, you know?

(24:54):
So, you know, wires were crossed.
For sure.
You know, so, you know, that happened, you know, around 15, around 16, um, I found mycousin hanging.
Um, he had killed himself.
You know, his marriage had went south.

(25:15):
she claimed some pretty drastic things, you know, got him arrested, you know, things thatwe knew just weren't true.
And he didn't, he didn't have the bandwidth or the tools to process, you know, so he, hunghimself and he did it in the woods where we had went mushroom hunting.

(25:39):
And so Tony.
backtrack a little bit.
Tony was about the only father figure I really ever had growing up.
He was a cousin, but he was considerably older, you know, 13, 14 years older than I was.
And he was a young adult and you know, he
He had a little family and whenever they would go do things, Tony would, he would take mewith them, right?

(26:04):
Like to the amusement park and like we would go mushroom hunting and Jen saying, you know,the things that just, you know, typical Southern people folk do.
And, I, I respected Tony and I cared for him.
You know, he, he, he was a, he was a good man and he.
you're the one that found him.

(26:25):
Yeah, he would, he hung himself in the woods, um, and left his truck out there and thenational guards got involved and all the police got involved and you know, they try to
find him.
And when we got there on Saturday, I think it was Saturday is it definitely was a weekend,but

(26:48):
We all broke up into these little search parties and there were bloodhounds and all kindsof things to try to find him.
And, know, for some reason I just sort of veered off, you know, and just kind of went myown little way and, know, had my head down and, and.
I, know, I walked and I looked when I looked up, I mean, there he was, you know, rigormortis had set in, you know, Like I remember his, I remember his face.

(27:18):
Yeah.
So that was, that was really traumatizing.
That was really traumatizing.
I, I, you know, mental health treatment with you just, it just didn't exist back then.
Right.
You know, like it not like it does today.
Yeah.
But I didn't really know.

(27:40):
How did you even process it?
Like being so young and that was you know the one good positive figure, adult figure thatyou had in your life.
You know, I, don't know that I processed it very well.
I will say that, um, it was the start of drug use for me right now.

(28:05):
I didn't.
I didn't go full bore like the rest of my family did.
And Jonathan was already drinking almost daily by this point and doing drugs and all ofthat.
I, but I will say that I started to experiment with weed and I ended up actually, I had anaunt in Fort Lauderdale and my family thought it would be a good idea if I left Southern

(28:33):
Indiana and went down there and stayed with her.
Okay.
So I did for a little while, um but I had a cousin that was really into the coke scenedown there.
South Florida, yeah.

(28:55):
during the early 90s.
Right.
So that for me was just sort of because she there was.
I mean, the woman that was supplying her was dealing in massive amounts of cocaine.
Right.
And, and it was the most bizarre thing for me.

(29:19):
mean, just the way that I'd watch these people, you know, the way they would react to thisdrug and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, it was, it was bizarre, but I didn't get.
I started to experiment with drug use right around that age, but I didn't, I didn't get,like I wasn't an addict.

(29:42):
Right?
Like I wasn't an addict.
is surprising because you had full access to it all and you were around it.
Yeah.
Like it just didn't, it didn't do what I mean.
I, I was able to watch my family.
seen what weed and you know, I, seen the way they would act, but for some reason it justdidn't click yet for me.

(30:03):
Right.
And, you know, I, uh, I so.
Well, how old am I right now?
Probably about 17, 18 ish somewhere in this neighborhood.
You know, I'd quit high school, you know, which, know, I'm, I don't honestly today I lookat my life.

(30:25):
really don't regret it.
Um, but, you know, I,
I did, I had a girlfriend, you know, and she broke up with me and you know, with that, youknow, we were talking earlier about sort of those defense mechanisms, right?
The other, the other foot, the other, know, when things, so rejection, right.
For obvious reasons was really hard for me to deal with, right?

(30:50):
Abandonment issues, rejection issues, like, so I didn't handle it well, right?
I quit school.
It's like, I'll show you.
Right, right.
Watch me.
Yeah, I'm gonna really fuck up my line now.
But, you know, I, so I quit school.
But I did turn around and get my GED really quick, right?
Because back then it was the weirdest thing.

(31:12):
Like you could quit school and with your parents' permission and then six months later youcould get your GED.
For whatever reason, I did that.
I did that.
And then, you know, I decided I was going to join the military.
You know, it's like, okay.
So I joined, I joined the national guards, you know, because they were the only ones atthat time that were taking GEDs.

(31:34):
Okay.
Even the army wasn't, because the army
does it like every once in a while.
They're like, okay, we'll take high school dropouts now.
But back then, the National Guard, so I joined the National Guard thinking that I would beable to flow into the Army at some point, because that was the plan for a lot of us that
dropped out of school, was you join the National Guards and eventually the Army will takeyou.

(31:56):
But...
You know, best laid plan sort of thing, right?
So 19, yeah.
So I did basic training.
I actually liked the military.
Um, but around 19, I was in a major car wreck, major car wreck, right?

(32:20):
And you know, when I, here's
You know, earlier when I alluded to, know, I talked about, know, did you ever wake up andjust feel something wasn't off?
Right.
So the night before this car wreck, uh, mom had kicked me out of the house.
Right.
It was the silliest shit ever.

(32:40):
There was, do you remember Umbrot shorts?
Right.
Okay.
So I was, I was at this girl's house and my mom called her house.
to talk to me about a pair of umbro shorts that ended up in the laundry and blaming me forthese shorts.

(33:01):
And I don't know to this day, I don't know how the shorts got in that fucking laundry, butit wasn't me.
And for some, when I talked about her just like getting set off, that was it.
That was enough for her to like kick me.
Yeah
So I stayed at this, I stayed the night at this girl's house, her family liked me, and Istayed, I stayed the night at her house, but the night before that car wreck happened, I

(33:32):
had the most bizarre dream.
And I remember it as sure as I'm sitting here talking to you today, I remember this dream.
And it was this, right?
It was me.
and three of my friends, my best friend Dave Fuller, his girlfriend Lori Weininger and thegirl Brenda that I was staying with, we were at an amusement park in a hotel overlooking

(33:56):
the amusement park.
The moon was blood red, like blood red.
And you know the the amusement park rides where, you know, you set in the swings and theyswing you around.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, instead of swings, everybody was hanging from nooses.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
That was the dream.

(34:17):
Right.
And I, and I remember waking up and talking, was like some, this dream, this dream, like,I talked about it all day.
like, I was so real.
Right.
And I went to a state park that day with Dave Fuller, Lori Weininger and Brenda.

(34:42):
Right.
And on the way back, we dropped Dave and Lori off and we picked up a TV and put it in theback of Brenda's little Cavalier and headed down the road.
And we were just driving.
And about that time, like I went down to tie my shoe and I was talking about that dreamand I look up and there's a Chevy truck right in front of us.

(35:09):
And we just T-boned it.
Wow.
The girl and the guy that was driving the truck, I knew them.
They were in an argument and she just pulled into their, like she was going to pull in herdriveway and didn't even see us.
And we T-boned them.
And I remember, I mean, I remember it.

(35:31):
Perfectly like I remember slowing down.
I remember my head going through the window.
I remember my head coming back through the window I remember the TV hitting me and pushingme back through the window and and I you know, I pushed my head, know like back and I look

(35:51):
at Brenda and and I Like me call it a coincidence.
I don't know what but I think this was the blood-red moon.
I look at Brenda
and her face went from white to red.
Like she had so many cuts on her face and it was just, she was just right.

(36:11):
And I look at her and I'm like, my God.
And then, so I crawl out of the car across the hood.
and go over to her door and she's screaming, get me the fuck out of here.
Get me the fuck out of here.
And I'm like, Brenda, can't.
You might have a broken neck.
I don't know what's happening.

(36:31):
Like, I'm just gonna lay your seat back, right?
Help is on the way.
And about that time, the adrenaline wore off.
Like I was fading.
you started to feel it.
I was about to pass out and the guy from the truck caught me, right?
And then he put me on the back, leaned me up against the back quarter panel of her car.

(36:59):
And I'm sitting and I'm fading.
Like I'm holding myself up.
I can feel myself passing out.
Like I know, right?
Like everything's and about that time.
I heard the sound of tires on wet pavement, you know, that sound, right?
And, as soon as I heard that, I was like, fuck.

(37:19):
So he hits and slams me between the truck and the car.
Right.
And it, and it, and I, I mean, I, felt the twist.
I felt like, right.
And, uh, I came to in my.
My old gym teacher's arms, Leslie Akers, right?

(37:41):
Like I remember, right?
And she's asking me questions, you know, what day is it doing the, know, the sort of theEMT kind of thing is, right?
Like what day is it, you know?
And I remember uh looking at my arm and it was just yellow.
Just, I mean, yellow, yellow.
And I was like, oh no, my liver, my liver's busted.

(38:06):
Right.
Like I'm trying to like, like I'm getting upset with her because it's like, know what dayof the week it is.
Right?
Like we're like, I'm dying.
Right?
Like I need like what.
uh So, but yeah.
So my liver was busted.

(38:27):
My lungs were collapsed, a broken femur, broken back, broken neck, ruptured intestinesruptures.
mean, just, yeah, I was, I was.
I was in rough shape and the ambulance ended up coming.
They got me to the hospital and this whole time I was fairly calm.

(38:48):
Say what you want and maybe this is the childhood in me but in a kind of a chaos situationI'm pretty calm.
Right?
So I'm fairly calm through this whole process.
Were feeling anything at this point or was it total shock?
Okay.

(39:08):
I don't remember pain.
You know, like, I remember being scared.
There had to be a hell of a lot of pain though.
Then you just...
Your brain's protecting you.
I guess.
Yeah, but I don't, I don't remember pain.
Um, I, you know, and then, you know, they get me to the hospital and, know, I remember,you know, all of the BS and then the anesthesiologist came in and, um, I asked him, you

(39:40):
know, point blank, like, what, what are my, like, what are my odds?
Right.
And
I mean, with just the utmost honesty, he said, son, you need to get right with God.
He goes, you might not come out of this alive.
And he goes, if there's anybody that, and I was just like that.
Okay.
That did it.
Right.
That was the.

(40:01):
I cried.
I, I was like, I think, like I didn't think I was going to come out of it.
Like I thought I was dying and you know, that, that car wreck.
is extremely pivotal in my life, not for the obvious reasons, but when I came to from thecar wreck, I had been in a drug induced coma for several weeks.

(40:25):
um you know, I came to and I had a morphine watch on, you know, and I remember hittingthat morphine watch and I felt that morphine spread.
Mm-hmm.
And it hit me it was just, ah you know, and that that was it.

(40:51):
That was it.
Like, like, there's not too many people that can, you know, nail down like the finitemoment of their addiction.
Right.
But that was it for me.
Like that was I was hooked.
I wanted that high.
you know and when i even started to heal i wanted that high and and i worse and i loved ipain pills you know

(41:15):
So from when that happened and you have your morphine drip, they probably sent you home onpain pills and pain management.
Yeah, this would have been 96, right?
96, somewhere around in there.
Pain meds back, I mean, they were like, they handed them out like, you know, And withwhat, everything that had happened to me, I mean, I was a walk in, like, it was easy.

(41:48):
Yeah.
You know, and it was easy all the way up until
you know, the FDA got involved with the doctors back in like 2000 something.
It was easy for me.
So what was your use like?
How did the addiction grow, I should say?
So you're in the hospital, you feel that morphine drip, you feel it taking away the painall the way to your fingertips.

(42:12):
Where do you go from there?
straight into insanity.
Right.
So, you know, I still fancied myself different from the rest of my family, but and I couldrun from a lot.
But I mean, when as soon as I as soon as I started chasing that euphoria, there was neverenough.

(42:39):
right.
there was never enough of anything, And right around, and even though it was easy for meto get pain meds, was still a process, right?
But around that same time, the meth epidemic hit southern Indiana.
Mm.
Right.

(42:59):
And this was before you got to understand, a lot of people, you know, nowadays it's kindof a joke, you know, like the whole meth thing, but you got to understand there was a,
there was a time when the police had no fucking idea what was going on.
Right.
Like they did.
There was a time when you could go to Sam's club and walk in and, and carry out crates ofSudafed.

(43:27):
Right, yeah, that's true.
They didn't have a clue what was going on.
They didn't understand like what, like, the police was clueless.
So there was a, there was a, like a moment in Southern Indiana where everybody was makingthat s***.
There were people doing it that you wouldn't...

(43:49):
principles of schools and like I mean everybody was doing everybody was making it rightand then Everybody fancied themselves a chemist, know, like we you know, we we even had
nicknames for people It was making it, know, so we could talk on the phone to each other,you know, I remember there was a one we called chef boyardee uh I mean, you know like so

(44:18):
I chased that high, you know, I started doing, I started doing meth.
started making meth, you know, and I did that.
pain pills, Xanax, you know, like I still wasn't a drinker, right?
Like, mean, I the bars, right?
Because that's where people partied and shit.

(44:40):
I wasn't a huge drinker, right?
For me, it was still very much
drugs.
drugs, right?
Pain pills, right?
Meth.
You know, I, I, I seen a friend of mine, uh, Toby, uh, sorry, Toby, I don't know where thehell he's at in.
I haven't seen him.
But anyway, uh, you know, I caught, I, I don't want to say caught, but I seen him shootingup.

(45:05):
Right.
And I was like,
Well, why, why are you doing that as opposed to doing this?
Right.
So I, I wasn't a big needle user, but I did use needles, right?
Like, eventually it was to me, it scared me too much.
Right.
Like I didn't, I was always afraid that it would always be too much in that particular.

(45:26):
So, but you know, I did the math, I made it, you know, I did all that.
And basically what happened was.
walked in and I caught my sister shooting up my 13 year old niece.
Right.
And that for me was and this would have probably been around 24 25.

(45:57):
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Dana.
Probably the most toxic.
of us all, right?
Like Dana, my family, I always refer to them sort of as leeches, right?

(46:18):
They never, ever contributed to society.
They never gave back in any form.
They just take, take, take, and they still take, right?
Like my twin brother, Jonathan is a deadbeat dad.
Been in and out of prison, all of his adult life.

(46:41):
Dana, same way, deadbeat mother, not good people.
I haven't even talked to my twin brother in probably 10 years, maybe more.
I just choose to not have them in my life.
toxic behavior is still going on and yeah.

(47:04):
My journey in sobriety was...
sort of do I need to make an amends to them for not talking to them sort of thing.
Right.
So yeah, that would be tough, especially when you're trying to make amends, but it's sotoxic and they're still doing all the same shit.

(47:27):
Nothing's changing.
Nothing's changed.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's tough.
Nothing's changed up there.
You know, nothing, nothing has.
And you know, I, I just, it, my, I just, if, so I just sort of made myself, you know, adeal.
Like if, if ever they do decide to change and if ever anything ever comes to that, then Iwill, I will absolutely be there.

(47:55):
Right.
Right.
Which it could happen.
mean, you know, never know.
with me.
So, but so I see Dana shooting up Jolene and
Like that was just one of those, I was done.
It was just one of those moments in my life where it's like, I can't do this shit anymore.

(48:19):
So I call 911.
You know, I'd been up for days.
I'd taken God knows how many Xanaxes done.
God knows how much meth pain pills.
Like for some reason I, it was in this sort of weird time when I had almost every type ofdrug that you could imagine on me.
And I had been doing them all right.
Like I remember it was a weird four or five day stretch where I had done mushrooms, painpills, meth, Xanax, weed, alcohol, all in that sort of.

(48:50):
Yeah.
weird and I was fucked up.
I called 911.
I don't really know why I called 911.
just didn't know what it was.
Now I look back at it and like what a god thing.

(49:11):
So I called 911 and I'm like, I'm
I'm ODing, I'm dying.
Like, I don't know what's going on, but I can't.
And I, like, I hear all of a sudden, like, is this Charlie?
And I was like, what the?
Right.
On your 911 call?
Yeah, I was like what the fuck?

(49:33):
Come to find out it was a family friend and I didn't know anything about how 911 worked,but they had the dispatch actually at the jail and it was a family, it was a family friend
that was running the dispatch and I was like.
So they, an ambulance comes and gets me and I wasn't ODN, but I don't know why I said whatI said, but.

(49:58):
You probably just wanted somebody to get there because you're niece.
wanted out and they so they took me to Orange County Hospital.
Did they did they get your niece to or no no?
so you let that?
I just let that, right.
And so they take me to the hospital in orange County and they don't know what to do withme.

(50:22):
So the, tell me they're going to transport me to, uh, Bloomington, which is where Indianauniversity is, which was about an hour away.
And I get there and they take me up to the detox and it was the first time I ever feltlike.
safe.

(50:42):
You know, I was in, I was in the hospital, I was in a controlled environment.
Some reason that the nurses took a shine to me.
And I remember one of them, she was the sweetest woman.
And she just looked at me one day and she said, if we can get you help, would you, wouldyou accept it?
And I'm like, help, what do you like?

(51:03):
I like, what do you mean?
It's like, you don't have to live this way anymore.
Right.
So I said, yeah.
What were you thinking then?
I don't know that I was thinking much of anything, right?
Like I went up there, I had one change of clothes, the ones I had on.

(51:25):
I just heard help and was like, sure.
And so they kept me longer in the detox than they were supposed to.
They let me stay there for like nine days, right?
And they made a phone call to a, rehab facility, um, that was associated with thehospital, Indiana university, the hospital, and got me a bed there.

(51:56):
And I.
I stayed there longer than I was supposed to, right?
I think it was like a 21 day thing, but they let me stay there for like 45 days until ahalfway house had a bed.
It was called the Amethyst house.
How are you feeling during your detox?

(52:18):
Did you still, you know, after you got into like the residential part where you were 45days, how did that go?
Do you remember?
Just tired a lot.
I remember being tired for like the first couple of weeks, but I was still young enough towhere physically I didn't have sort of like the major withdraw.

(52:43):
Right.
I was still, I just knew that now all of sudden there's this whole world out there that Iknew nothing about.
Right.
Like, I mean, nothing about recovery was never talks about.
Right, exactly, exactly.
And, and at this time, I still didn't understand the mental health aspect of everything.
Like it was just, you're an addict.

(53:05):
Right.
know, you just need to just stop doing it.
Like it's in.
So, you know, I, you know, I get into, I get into the amethyst house and I'm going to AA,you know, I'm 25 ish years old.
I'm, I'm, I'm going to AA.

(53:28):
I'm doing the deal and I'm going to meetings and I'm becoming popular in AA if there issuch a thing.
Well, when you're around like-minded people then, everybody's kind of has the same goal.
Yeah, and the fact that it was a college town, uh there was a lot of young people in AAtoo.
So I found myself sort of, you know, when we'd hang out on like Fridays and drink coffeeand do all the sort of young sober things kids did.

(53:58):
I was just...
m
I just couldn't believe that this world existed an hour away from where I grew up, right?
Like this, you know, like university and I was just, know, and like I started to makefriends and then, you know, I, I,

(54:21):
stayed there, I want to say right around six months and um stayed sober, clean that entiretime um and loved it, loved it.

(54:43):
oh
on and off during that time like cravings anything like that focus uh
got a sponsor.
He was actually the director of child psychology at IU.
Yeah.
Like he, his name was, uh, his name was Sasha.

(55:04):
I still remember him.
Um, great guy.
Um, a great guy, but, uh, he, um,
And I loved it.
I loved it.
And I, I don't know what came, I don't know.

(55:25):
I don't remember exactly what came first, but I ended up meeting an older woman.
She was 17 years older than me.
Her name was Kim.
Her name was Kim and she had significant sobriety, right?
Like a lot, a lot of years.
but we hit it off, right?

(55:48):
And whether it was wrong or right, like we, we fell in love, right?
And I moved in with her and, you know, and, you know, maybe call it, you know, maybe itwas, you know, I've seen a maternal, you know, who psychologically speaking, you know, who
knows, but you know, I loved her, right.

(56:10):
And I mean, it was doomed.
from the time it started, but I mean, just, you know, mean, one, the age, the sobrietydifference, like, you know, I wasn't done with my youthful BS.
I changed a lot in this time, but, um, so Kim and I, um,

(56:38):
We ended up breaking up and I got my own place and I decided I was going to put myselfinto college.
um But she ended up getting cancer, colon cancer, and died.
And uh that was rough.
That was really rough for me.
You were still there for her and everything during that?

(56:59):
Well.
I felt that I was, um, I don't know that she felt the same way, right.
But it still was pretty hard for me to process, you know, her dying, you know, but, atsome we're in this time of being sober and clean, you know, I had made the conscious

(57:27):
effort that drugs uh
Bad drugs, bad prison or death, alcohol.
Okay.
Right.
Like, and about this time was when the PTSD started to kick in, right?

(57:48):
had no clue what it was.
I I didn't know how to identify it, but I knew I wasn't sleeping at all.
Could not sleep, could not shut my brain off.
was.
a lot of flashbacks and just.
Trauma like whenever I would sleep it was violent nightmares violent nightmares, which I'dnever had before right like it was and And this and I wasn't sleeping I was I was losing

(58:14):
my fucking mom.
Yeah, right and I didn't know what to do I was still I would like I wasn't going to go seea psychiatrist I was not gonna go do it because that's what mom did right?
Here's it.
Remember we were talking earlier about that hyper focus
That is what mom would do.
I'm not like mom.

(58:35):
I don't have mental health issues.
I'm smarter, I'm stronger, I can handle this.
The story of my life, right?
So a friend of mine acquaintance if you will um So why don't you just have a couple beersshut your brain off
Right.

(58:57):
How long now, sobriety for how long at this point?
maybe eight, nine months.
and you know, that, that sounds simplistic almost.
Why not just have a couple of beers to shut your brain off, but you gotta understand, youknow, by this point I was already an addict, right?

(59:22):
It's like, okay, well I can't do so for me.
I did.
I went and bought a six pack of beer.
I literally had three beers, was able to sleep, get up and go to work.
and be productive and it worked.
It worked wonderfully, right?

(59:42):
So right out of the gate, right out of the gate, I was a daily drinker.
I drank every day from that point till I was 46 years old, almost 20 years.
So crazy because that was never the source of your addiction.

(01:00:07):
was always drugs, hardcore drugs.
And then it just switched.
For the most part.
Like I would still buy pain pills and whatnot every once in a while, right?
But it wasn't, and then I went through a spell after Jack was born, probably around 33where I was, you know.

(01:00:29):
getting them pretty easily, you know, because of the wreck and all that kind of jazz.
You know, this was before the whole FDA thing.
Sure.
Right.
Right before it, though.
Right.
I mean, they were handing out they were handing out pain pills.
I mean, it was insane.
Right.
And I was buying them.
So I'd hooked up with a connection back in French leg.

(01:00:49):
Right.
So I did like that drug use never went away, but I was able to turn it off pretty quickly.
right because which is rare most people most people can't do that.
No doubt.
Yeah, right.
I was, I was, I always considered myself when it came to like law, like the law, likebreaking the law, like I broke the law, right?

(01:01:15):
But I always considered myself either one smarter or two lucky.
And I would always tell people all the time, you know, like if karma was real, I wouldeither be dead or in prison.
Right.
And I remember I would joke about that.
Right.
Because oh
That's just the way it was, like the whole making the meth thing.
Do you know how many of those people I've seen go down?

(01:01:37):
Right?
Like, like, like my own twin brother did three years in Illinois prison for stealing, uh,and hydrosammonia.
Right.
So I just always considered myself smarter or lucky, right?
But, but alcohol was my drug of choice.
So how did you progress?

(01:01:57):
You're at three to go to sleep.
And then obviously you need more.
oh
right, right.
How did it progress?
The same way with like almost every addiction, but alcohol is subtle.
It's a subtle foe.
It really is patient because thing with alcohol.

(01:02:21):
Drugs increase very quickly.
Alcohol, was okay.
know, three beers.
do, you know, I did that for, you know, God knows how long, you know, maybe, you know, ayear, three beers.
You kept it at three-ish for a while.
a while.
Okay.
Right, but then three turned into four.

(01:02:42):
I also need to, this is where I met my now ex-wife.
So I was.
a maintenance guy at one of the apartment communities for the college kids, right?
So I did, I did maintenance.
I've always, you know, I've always been good with my hands.

(01:03:05):
You know, I fix and build things, you know, I, own an asphalt concrete company.
so I w I've just always been that right.
Like I've always been.
You know, I have to give my mom credit here where credit is due because that woman couldfix just about damn near anything.

(01:03:26):
Whatever weird reason I was her sort of her.
You know, protege, if you will, um when it came to doing things like that, So I was amaintenance guy at the apartment community and she was a leasing agent.
Right?
ah I was going to a local community college.

(01:03:48):
She was actually going to Indiana University.
ah
I flirted the way that you did back then.
I had little business cards for my construction company and I'd leave on her window andflirt with her and she was beautiful.

(01:04:14):
ah She still is beautiful.
ah
We met right around this time, right?
Like right, right at the time she was young.
She was a drinker and a party or two.
So was I.
And you know, we, we, we fell in love, you know, fast, like fast, you know, it was likeprobably three dates and she was spending the night with me and you know, we were pretty

(01:04:41):
much living together and she, she was
uh raised in California, um northern, and her family when she was in college had moved tothe Chicago area.
So she graduated Indiana, IU, and...

(01:05:07):
I had figured out at this time that college wasn't going to do anything for me.
wasn't going to, there was nothing I was gonna do at college that would propel me anyfurther in life, right?
And so I, and Southern Indiana had nothing but bad memories for me, right?
It had nothing for me there.

(01:05:28):
There was nothing for me there.
So,
The opportunity come to move up to Chicago with her.
Um, so I did, but by this, so, or was all sort of right in the, mean, it was fast.
So the three and the four and the five that we were talking about right in that errorwhere, know, her and I had moved up to Chicago together and I was drinking, you know, a

(01:05:54):
six pack a day, you know, and it wasn't that big a deal, right?
But this is where the ugliness of the addiction kicks in.
was there's never, there was never, my addiction is there's never enough, right?

(01:06:18):
And
I go up, you know, I get up there with her and um we didn't like Chicago and we had madeplans to move to Austin, Texas.
And I was going to put in my notice at work.

(01:06:45):
you know, and we were going to move to Austin, Texas.
And right before I put in my notice, she calls me and uh she was like, Charlie, have youput in your notice yet?
And I was like, no, I was about to walk in there and she goes, don't.
And as soon as as soon as she said that, I kind of knew what was up.
And yeah, and she she told me she was pregnant.

(01:07:09):
And I.
uh
I mean, I didn't handle it well.
I really didn't.
I was terrified.
I grew up in that sort of, well, you too.
We grew up in that sort of generation where it's like, if you had a deadbeat dad, thenyou're going to be a.

(01:07:31):
Like if you were raised abused, you were going to be abusive.
You know, and, and they sort of just kind of ingrained that in there.
And I was just terrified about being a father.
was terrified about being a father and I didn't handle it well.
Right.
So what did I do?
uh Panic attacks.
Right.
I never had, I didn't know what the fuck was going on.

(01:07:53):
Like panic attacks are still like, I don't, I don't have them today.
Like weirdly enough sobriety, right.
But
Right.
I started having panic attacks and the way these things manifest themselves is sophysical.
I seriously thought I was dying and d**kers could not solve the problem.

(01:08:15):
Right?
And so I started having like these really massive just...
Just when you were sober or anytime?
Anytime.
Okay.
Yeah.
Anytime.
Pretty much.
Right.
And, but alcohol made it better.
And they started giving me Xanax.
Right.
So I started doing Xana.

(01:08:37):
I was drinking, doing Xanax.
The drinking got worse, right?
Because it helped with the panic attacks.
So you need more and more.
And the Xanax is, so I started doing Xanax and drinking and I was just.
I was a fucking mess.

(01:08:58):
I was terrified about being a father.
She was really pregnant.
Even her wedding photos, they're big belly.
um She married me.
She kept telling everybody in her family, there's greatness in him.

(01:09:18):
see it.
Jack was born and I would like to say, you know, Jack was born and you know, all of asudden just it stopped but it didn't And you know, I I made an ass out of myself Quite a

(01:09:38):
bit and it just kept getting worse and worse and then something just clicked one day whereit was like it was a choice
You know, like being a good father and being present was sort of a choice, you know, and Ijust stopped doing the Xanax got a job, right?

(01:10:07):
Got a job, a decent job.
and I'll touch on the job thing here too, cause I kind of need to, it's just sort ofreally a big part of my story, but, um,
And were you ever like a violent or mean drug addict alcoholic type thing or were youjust.
No, um not to say that there weren't moments of that that would creep in.

(01:10:33):
Really?
No, I was a selfish drunk.
You know, wanted.
Like if you affect the way I drink and I don't want you around me, right?
And.
Like I said, I was still drinking daily.
Um, I stopped doing the Xanax and, and, and, and whatnot, but not to say that, like, look,I'd love to, you know, sit here and just be like, no, but there were moments when there

(01:11:00):
was violence involved in it.
know, I, I thought about this when the divorce was happening and, know, all of theaccusations and a lot of them were true.
They were, but.
It was always when we were drunk together.

(01:11:20):
Right?
it, it never was when it was just me drinking or it was always when we were drunk togetherand she had a, she had a little crazy in her too.
Right?
Like, mean, car, Carl was a good woman.
She really was great woman.
Well, and of course that stuff always comes out, drinking drugs, any of that, you know?

(01:11:42):
Sure.
But right around this time.
I call it luck, call it God, call it whatever you want.
But I ended up getting a job with a company called Rose Paving in Chicago.
Right.
And it was, it was purely based on, it wasn't that I was a great project manager oranything and they wanted my, right.

(01:12:11):
It was that I had a very narcissistic and ego centric.
boss that was a womanizer and he wanted young good looking guys around him to write, go tobars and, right?
But it just so happened to be that I also was a really good project manager, right?

(01:12:36):
uh So I got this job and it was an amazing opportunity.
We took a relatively small paving company to
like a whole new height.
Like we, it was on the back of like four or five of us and we created an entire division.

(01:12:58):
nationally that today is it's a billion dollar industry, right?
Like the national paving scene in America really started on the backs of us.
And we took a small paving company and within a few years it was a hundred million dollarcompany.
And we started, we started doing like it was, I was jet setting, I was flying all over thecountry and I still drinking daily, right?

(01:13:24):
Still drinking daily, but able to do this.
And I was, I was so this country poor boy was, you know, flying all over the country andhobnobbing with like corporate execs.
And, it was just uh an amazing experience.
Right.
But then 2008 had hit things happen.

(01:13:50):
Rose paving hired some CEO that
figured out that we could get a few computer programs to do most of what us projectmanagers could do.
So he fired all the PMs and yeah, so I was overqualified.
No one would hire me, right?
was just, like I didn't have a job for like two and a half years.

(01:14:11):
was completely, completely, just couldn't get hired, right?
And, um.
must have went from feeling like so high and up here to just...
yeah.
It was a massive, massive blow.
One of those things that increased my drinking considerably, you know, 12 turned in or sixturned in 12, you know, and it, did like, mean, and eventually, you know, I, came out of

(01:14:39):
it.
but it was when I had the realization that
I just I couldn't work for anybody else.
You know, I was either going to start my own company and succeed or I was going to failmiserably, get a divorce, probably end up back in southern Indiana.

(01:15:01):
You know, it was just that sort of pivotal moment.
we, know, Kara and I had maybe $800 in the bank.
You know, we were living paycheck to paycheck and it was rough.
We had two little kids.
had, know, my daughter and my son, you know, so when
I started what is now Mad Jacks Asphalt and Concrete.

(01:15:22):
I literally started it with $800 in the bank, a laptop, and Peanut Madeleine would watchBubble Guppies while I was sitting there just banging out intro letters to clients.
It was one of these things where...

(01:15:42):
when it happened, it happened so fast.
We went from living paycheck to paycheck to paycheck and really struggling to all of asudden success.
And with me, with me,

(01:16:09):
Every rung of the ladder of success just meant more and more drinking.
Right, like my drinking just kept increasing and 12 turned into 14, 14 into 16, right?
And we decided after Mad Jacks became successful and we knew that it was sustaining, wedecided we had enough of Illinois and we dissolved our business and moved everything down

(01:16:40):
here and...
So how old were you then and the kids?
Uhhhh oh
Probably thirty...
35ish, 36ish, somewhere around in there.

(01:17:03):
So somewhere around in there.
ah
Yeah.
no, I would have had to been close to 40, sorry, because, uh, I've been down here in nineyears.
turned 49.
So yeah, so we're somewhere around in the 40 ish range.
the business, we were in business a few years up there.

(01:17:27):
So, yeah, so I'm trying to figure out the math, anyway,
Do you guys have a plan?
Like you dissolve the business or you're like, I'm just going to start this in Nashville.
Oh, you moved the whole thing.
Okay.
Okay.
The great thing about my paving industry, paving businesses anyway, is I can pretty welldo them anywhere.

(01:17:49):
Right, like I don't have to be central, I don't have to be Nashville.
We don't do a lot of paving work in and around Nashville.
Hardly any at all actually, right?
So all of our work is in different states.
So, so you know, we moved down here,

(01:18:09):
And things were good.
You know, I was still drinking every day.
I was drinking a lot, but things were good.
The businesses were doing well.
We were able to go on vacations.
You know, the kids got whatever they want.
You know, I spoiled them.
You know, I didn't want them to see any of the, you know, the BS that I grew up with.
So I, know, if they asked for it, I got it for them.

(01:18:33):
Right.
And I'm still that way.
Like I can't help it.
Right.
It's just the way it is.
Right.
And
But once again, you know, like just every rung of that ladder of success, my drinking justgot worse and worse and worse.
Why do you think?

(01:18:54):
Do you remember why there has to be more?
I'm sure from a psychological standpoint, would have to do with...
oh
just never being able to find happiness, right?
That sort of, don't deserve this.

(01:19:16):
I'm never happy.
Nothing ever made me happy.
Right?
Like, you know, I, I said before, you know, I said before I got sober that my life wasdark with just little moments of light, like little moments of happiness.
Right.
It was just dark.
Like just, I just never happy, always sad about something.

(01:19:37):
moments of happiness, would poke through, you know, and then after sobriety, you know, my,you know, it's, you know, my world is light with just little moments of darkness, right?
Like the depression, you know, it's still there, but it goes away.
pretty quickly today and I know how to deal with it, right?

(01:20:01):
But yeah, it just kept getting worse.
And one of the worst things that I did, uh
And I don't think I could have stopped it even if I would have wanted to was, you know, Ijust, I hired really well in my company.
She started working for me, right?
She was really good at what she did.

(01:20:22):
And, um, I hired operationally speaking, really talented young men and I wasn't.
I wasn't really needed.
I'd really almost literally phased myself out of my own company.
Instead of doing anything sort of productive with that time, the drinking just ballooned.

(01:20:45):
I tried everything I could to make myself happy.
Would you drink at home mostly or would you go out to the bars just to be social?
Home.
by myself.
That was that was what I wanted to do.
Bars just meant I couldn't drink the way I wanted to.
Right.

(01:21:06):
Like I went to bars because that's what she liked to do.
But it just meant that I couldn't drink the way I wanted to.
I didn't enjoy it like I used to enjoy.
I enjoyed drinking with her there for the longest time.
She was my favorite drinking partner.
But even that.
Yeah.
problematic, right?

(01:21:27):
Because it just meant I couldn't, I couldn't do it the way I wanted to.
Right?
And at this point I'm 16 beers a day.
So you're getting more and more depressed too.
Yeah, this is where the real darkness comes in
When an outsider looking at him would probably think, God, he's got the world by theballs.

(01:21:48):
He's his business, his family, kids.
Yeah.
Right?
Like I tried every cure for depression I could, other than the correct one.
Right?
Like I bought land, I bought cars, right?
Like, mean, yeah, picket fence, white house.

(01:22:08):
Like, I mean, my life looked idyllic.
You know, on paper, I was just...
in this dark abyss and you know my life was just spiraling and I didn't know what to doabout it you know.
Yeah I mean so 16 turned into 20, 20 turned into 24 right I'm literally.

(01:22:34):
The last five years, four years maybe, five of my drinking, I was drinking 24 beers everysingle day, seven days a week, 365 days.
I was drinking every single day a case of beer, and that was a Cobb Tuesday.

(01:22:58):
Right.
Like that was just a cob Tuesday come weekends.
It was balls out.
Right.
Because that's somewhere in this timeframe of drinking.
She drank every day as well, but something happened with her.
Like she just stopped.

(01:23:19):
And just drank on the weekends.
Now she would like, she would still, you know, like, I don't want to, I'm not going totake her inventory, but, uh, weekends.
mean, it was still balls out, right?
Like I watched her get, uh, one time that I watched her the night before she was supposedto fly to her.

(01:23:40):
grandfather's induction into the Arlington National Cemetery.
uh I watched her get so drunk.
Like I've never seen anything like it.
Her legs stopped working.
Yeah, it was insane.
Like she came out of the bar, Kimbrough's over here and just face planted.
Oh, God.

(01:24:01):
I mean her entire, like that's the reason she couldn't go.
Right.
But so, but somehow she was able to stop drinking every day and just drink on theweekends.
And I, and I wanted to, so, but so many arguments, so many arguments.
Why can't you just do this?
Why?
can't you just drink on the weekends like me?

(01:24:22):
Why can't you just stop?
Why don't you go to AA again?
Right?
I remember that one.
I also remember telling her that I would rather die.
I remember saying it.
I would rather die of alcohol, whatever, than to go back to those rooms.
And I don't know why I built such an, I think it was because of Kim.

(01:24:45):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
all of that, like I had just built this resentment against Alcoholics Anonymous andrefused, you know, and, but...
Yeah, so just a Cobb Tuesday was 24 beers every day, weekends, balls out.
You know, I started doing things that I hadn't done in years, years, decades.

(01:25:12):
You know, I was buying cocaine again.
You know, I was doing like, so my daily life,
is during your last five years?
Yeah.
Okay.
So, well, the cocaine thing was during the like the last year and a half of it, but Ithink it's, I think it's important to talk about what my daily routine looked like.

(01:25:35):
So I would start drinking around four ish in the afternoon and I would drink all the wayto about four in the morning and I would pass out and I would sleep for only a couple
hours.
Hmm.
And once, and even it's still like this today.
Once I wake, I can't not shut my brain back.

(01:25:56):
It just doesn't work like that.
So I would wake up with the shakes.
And for me, the idea of waking up with a drink.
Now that's a real alcoholic, you know, waking up and taking it off.
That's a real, you know, I'm not that.
oh

(01:26:17):
I would take five, one milligrams annexes about six or seven in the morning, sleep tillabout one or two in the afternoon, get up, shower, whatever, make it look like I did
something, kids, and then rinse and repeat.
And that was my daily routine every day.

(01:26:40):
Right?
I started doing cocaine again.
I started hurting myself again, started cutting.
I was...
I huffed ether, starting fluid in the garage one night.
I shot up beer.
Yeah, that's one of those kind of...
Yeah, like I literally loaded up a syringe and shot up beer.

(01:27:05):
was...
Yeah, that's one of those...
moments where even now with sobriety and we go in these rooms and we talk about how crazyour stories are, you that's one of those.
It's just, I can't believe I did.
Yeah.

(01:27:29):
And, you know, so around this time, her and I just kept
drifting further and further apart and I didn't see it.
You know, I didn't see it until it was too late.
And she was changing, stopped during the week, you're still balls of the wall every day,nothing's changing on your end.

(01:27:54):
So I'm sure she was so frustrated and just over it.
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.
We had, as you said, the, you know, the bull by the horns.
Life looked great.
You know, we should have been, we should have been, you know, in the time of our life thatI just couldn't stop drinking.

(01:28:16):
You you know, so, you know, coming into, you know, the end of 2021,
You know, we went out to Park City, Utah to celebrate Christmas with the kids, big skiingevent.
um Should have been.

(01:28:38):
Should have been.
I was.
You know, I wish I could show you a photo of uh me from, about three years ago.
It's.
I was.
Big.
You know, I was like 220 pounds.

(01:28:58):
Yeah, 220 pounds.
I was drinking, my organs were inflamed, I was sick, my knees, I had chronic gout, everyday, you know, like it was, was in, was dying.
Like, I didn't know it at the time.
gonna say was it even clicking?
know?

(01:29:18):
Yeah.
No, I was dying like and I didn't it didn't register with me, but You know, so my sobrietydate which is today ah Is also my son's birthday all right, so Jack turned 19 today and uh

(01:29:40):
Yeah, well there's a story there too and this is where sort of the
the insanity, like the real insanity, not like, know, granted my entire life has just beeninsane.
But this for me was.

(01:30:01):
You remember when I said, you know, if karma was real, I'd be well, you know, it is and ithappens, right?
And like all addictions, alcohol is subtle and it is patient, but it takes exactly whatall the other addictions do, which is everything.

(01:30:22):
Right.
So, January of 2022, she had made plans.
for my son's birthday to go out.
we were gonna, I was gonna take him to the Memphis Grizzlies game.
Wait, go back to Chris, what happened on the ski trip?
Oh, just OK.
So um I just.

(01:30:46):
I couldn't have fun.
My knees hurt.
I couldn't see.
because you, right.
Right.
oh
you know, I was big.
Not healthy, couldn't stop drinking.
All I could think about was drinking, right?
Like I just couldn't like I just couldn't have fun.
Right.
I just could not have fun.
And it was an amazing, like we stayed in a nice little home in Park City.

(01:31:11):
know, like it was beautiful.
snow was on the ground.
We stayed the last five days at the Waldorf.
You know, like it was just the most picturesque vacation and I couldn't have fun.
Yeah.
Like I remember we went and got massages when we were at the Waldorf and you know, thepart where you like lay on your belly.

(01:31:34):
Like I couldn't.
Right, like I couldn't.
It was so uncomfortable for me.
So the during the massage during that part, I was just like constant, like, you know, itwas awful.
And so.
You know, we, you know, we come home and.

(01:31:54):
I still, I still.
didn't see the divide between her and I.
And you know, so, you know, she's planning for Jack's 16th birthday.
Okay.
take him out to a Memphis Grizzlies game, right?
And she, you know, I didn't think anything about it, but she, you know, she plans this bigdeal and, you know, it's me and her father and Jack's friend and uh Jack and, you know, we

(01:32:22):
all drive out to Memphis and, you know, I take him to this Grizzlies game and we're righton the floor, right?
We're right there with the, you know, the basketball players and, you know, Jack's havingthe best time ever and.
You know, the night ends with the basketball game and you know, her dad and Jack andeverybody goes up to their rooms and you know, I, I do what I do, right?

(01:32:42):
I go out on bill street and right.
partying it up, man.
I'm buying out bars and doing just doing me.
And you know, I, I woke up the next day and it was 5 45.
I even have it tattooed on my arm and I knew.

(01:33:04):
once again that you just know something's not right.
Like that happened to me several times.
This was hopefully the last, hopefully.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, knock on everything.
Right.
um
But something wasn't right.

(01:33:25):
We had this app called Life360.
We used it all the time.
something wasn't right.
Something wasn't right.
Her last known location was at a bar called Dolan's, which is not a great bar in Franklin.
It's about the closest thing to This is your wife?

(01:33:46):
Yeah.
Okay.
sorry.
Yeah.
So cars last known location.
My my now ex wife was at a bar called Dolan's and it's about the roughest bar in Franklin.
It is like it's it's pretty rough and I just I didn't know what was going on right like Ilike I was like.
I was calling hospitals, was calling police, was calling friends, was calling her mom, Iwas calling everybody.

(01:34:09):
Like, is she dead?
Did someone drug her?
And I was terrified, I was scared, I was so scared.
So I hustled everybody up, got them in the car, and headed back to Franklin.
Yeah.

(01:34:29):
I keep trying to call, keep trying to call, her dad's trying to comfort me.
You know, and I'm like, Bill, something's not right.
Something's not right.
And we get about Jackson, which is about sort of kind of the halfway point between Memphisand Franklin.
And she answers the phone.
And with what I can only describe as the utmost glee, she tells me she slept with someoneelse.

(01:34:55):
Like over the speakerphone of the car.
She's like, I slept with someone else last night.
And I need to say this.
I need to say this before I continue with this story.
I have forgiven her.
I have forgiven him.
I wish them the best.
Right?

(01:35:15):
I really truly do.
And if I was married to me, I probably would have did the same thing.
Right?
Because I was a vacuum of emotion.
I showed her no love.
I took her for granted.
I absolutely, absolutely was just a terrible guy.

(01:35:41):
from that perspective.
Like I just showed her no respect, none.
And so I truly believed that because of my drinking, I drove her to that.
I'm not trying to justify it or anything like that.

(01:36:01):
I'm just merely trying to state that I don't blame her.
But so she says that and
my entire world just collapsed at that moment.
Like I knew my life would never be the same, right?
Like I knew that my perfect idyllic family that I had spent so much time trying to createwas done, right?

(01:36:28):
And I really did.
spent, like I probably stayed in that marriage longer than I should have because of thesimple fact of this is what a uh perfect family looks like.
And
So anyway, you know, I'm, driving like a bat out of hell to get back to Franklin as fastas I can to just basically argue, right?
You know, because that's what I get back and that's basically what it was.

(01:36:50):
You know, I mean, just imagine, you know, just what you'd think it would be.
Wife had an affair, you know, um, you know, so I'm, I'm crying and I'm sad and I'm scaredand, know, I'm demanding to know who it is and, um,
And she's refusing to tell me.

(01:37:11):
of course, she, you know, of course she is, you know, but finally her parents gotinvolved.
Right.
And they actually set her down and was like, you need to come clean here.
Right.
Cause I think they wanted to know too.
Right.
Cause she was pretty hush hush about it.
Come to find out it was one of my employees.
Yeah.

(01:37:31):
So yeah, double, double.
Yeah.
And not to.
was he a good employee?
Not really.
Okay.
No, he was good at what he did.
ah But he he had stolen money from us.
Right.
Like he like it.
Yeah.
So there was that too.
Like the fact that here, you know, and that was a big ego hit.

(01:37:52):
It's like we're like him still together.
I mean, they really are still together.
And you know, like I don't want to go too far into the story.
But I mean, you know, and but
Anyway, I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm beat.
I'm done.

(01:38:13):
I'm dead.
I'm crushed.
I'm devastated.
I don't, I just want to die.
Right.
Like I just want to die.
Right.
So I grab one of those giant things of gray goose you get from, cause if I'm going out,I'm going out and stop.
Right.
Great.
Goose for one of those Costco things of goose.

(01:38:35):
You know, and I grabbed that and I had a new bottle of Xanax, you know, with 91 milligramsand X is in it.
I had not to the point where it was like, okay, I'm fucking doing it.
I like, yeah, Ida ideations and, know, yes.

(01:38:55):
Yeah.
I mean, when you grow up the way I did, you can't help, but.
have the thoughts.
Right.
Yeah.
But this is a plan now.
is I'm going out, right?
And you know, I grabbed the there's already two cases of beer upstairs, you know, I and soI grabbed the gray goose and I grabbed the Xanax and I go upstairs and I get to work,

(01:39:23):
right?
Like I locked the door.
No one's bothering me because who the hell is going to buy?
He's right.
No one's going to talk to me.
Right.
Kids leave me alone, you know, so, you know, I get to work and I don't know exactly howmuch I drink, but I can, I was able to sort of piece it together when I was allowed back

(01:39:50):
into the house.
And it was somewhere in the neighborhood of about 30 beers.
and about a third of that gallon of vodka.
And I had taken somewhere in the neighborhood of between 30 and 40 Xanax.
Yeah.
And, I don't know how in the hell I got up that next day.

(01:40:13):
I don't know how the hell I got up or woke up.
Well, so she had managed to kick the door, the, the bed, the, the bonus room door open andyou know, I, and, and remember I had identified as an atheist this whole time.
And that's important to note because, know, when we get into the actual sobriety aspect ofthis, but

(01:40:42):
This is one of these things that I didn't know it at the time, but I truly believe it wasgodly.
Right?
There is just like there are things that happened in my sobriety that I don't have anyother word than godly to describe it.

(01:41:03):
So she is standing there griping at me, right?
See?
look at you, this is why I did this, this affair is your fault, all of this, right?
And I'm like, I'm just sort of kind of, I'm coming to, I'm like, what in the hell ishappening?
And I feel as if I'm almost having an out of body experience, right?

(01:41:29):
Like, like I literally feel like my conscious is back here and I'm watching my body and I,and I don't have control of it.
Right?
Right.
And she's telling me she wants a divorce.
She's telling me all of this stuff and all of these things.
and, I, and I don't know why I said what I said, and I don't know why I did what I did.

(01:41:55):
But I said, I've already filed for divorce.
I've already got the divorce papers and I get up and I'm walking down the hallway.
to prove to her that I'm gonna show her these divorce papers, right?
And I walk into the bedroom and I reach in my bag like I'm about to grab divorce papersand then I pull out a nine millimeter um gun and then I turn around to her and she does

(01:42:27):
exactly what anybody should do in that situation and she freaked the fuck out and sheshould have.
Right.
Right?
Like there was this fucking drunk, insane man walking towards her with a gun.
uh
don't even know how you were walking or talking.
telling you it was the weirdest to this day.

(01:42:49):
It was the weirdest experience.
One of the weirdest experience of the whole thing.
Like it really was, but that, that literally was the start of my.
The sobriety journey, right?
It started at that very moment right there, but I didn't.
In my, in my head, I didn't, I wasn't going at her to killer, right?

(01:43:09):
Like, I don't know why I had the gun.
I don't know what I was doing, maybe to scare her or what?
I don't know.
But all
know is when she freaked out.
next thing I know, my in-laws were involved.
My kids were involved.
Right.
And they were all trying to get this gun out of, out of my hand.

(01:43:30):
Terrified of them making it discharge.
So I'm trying to keep it away.
They're trying to grab it.
Yeah.
From everywhere.
Yeah.
And finally I see an opening and I just drop it on the floor.
Well, as soon as that gun hit the floor, Madeline, Jack, Kara and her mom run outside.

(01:43:55):
And I never got along with her dad very much at all.
Like honestly, he was a bit of an asshole.
But I will say in that moment.
He stood at the top of those stairs and would not let me pass.
Right.
Cause I went into the bonus room and I grabbed another gun and he stood at the top ofthose stairs and would not let me pass.

(01:44:20):
And, and I will like, that was like the bravery.
Like it was really courageous.
I will say that like, but about this time I look and I, I can see.
I can see police just, mean, you can see them.

(01:44:41):
They're in the yard, the cars are in the yard.
They're all over my house.
You still have the gun in your hand?
so I knew I knew what was happening, right?
Like I had several friends that were police in Chicago, one of my better friends inFranklin was an ex Memphis cop and I talk and hobnob with them and went to the shooting

(01:45:07):
ranges with them and I knew I knew what was going on right?
So I, uh, this is where it gets a little black for a few minutes.
I, I don't know how bill ended up outside, but he did.
Right.
And I was in the laundry room with a loaded gun.

(01:45:30):
Police were in my house, guns, guns out, right?
Like, I mean,
there was probably nine or 10 of them in my house, guns out, I had a gun, and at thispoint I'd kind of decided that I was just gonna go out like Wyatt Earp, sort of boondock

(01:45:52):
saints kind of thing.
um That's a movie reference.
ah
But for whatever weird reason, and I don't know what he said, I have no earthly idea whatthis police officer was saying, but whatever he was saying resonated with me, right?
Because I had put the gun down.

(01:46:16):
Oh, they had to flash bang me.
I forgot to mention that.
So they decided that, yeah, so I was in there.
That's correct.
So they flash banged me and I still had the gun.

(01:46:36):
Whatever the the pull and I'm telling you right now flash bangs, they're legit.
Let's just be.
Like like, yeah, like I like I couldn't.
It's it's insane your your perception when something like that happens.
But anyway, so whatever he was saying, though, was.

(01:46:59):
whatever they were saying resonated because I put the gun down and I went and sat on thecouch.
And I just bald.
I just bald.
Nothing had really sunk in.
I didn't really think about going to jail.
I didn't even really know if they were going to take me to jail.

(01:47:20):
You know, like I didn't, you know, I didn't understand what was happening and, you know,he, you know, that's, told me, he's like, you know, we're going to have to, we're going to
take you to jail, you know?
And I was like, so I, you know, I got in the jail or got in the car and
That was it.
was the last time I ever seen my wife, you know, other than, know, in a courtroom, youknow, really, I haven't seen her since.

(01:47:46):
um Haven't talked to her, you know, other than through like lawyers and whatnot.
but.
Yeah, but.
You know, I get to jail and I don't understand, you know, out of all the insanity in mylife, you know, the legal system, like I said, you know, I got lucky, you know, whatever,

(01:48:09):
but I'd never really been in trouble with the law.
know, silly little things, but nothing like this, right?
And I didn't understand what was happening.
Right.
Right.
They were just like, you cannot, you cannot talk to your kids.
You cannot talk to her.
If you do, you're going to jail and you won't get out.
Right.
And I'm like, you like, literally thought they, didn't think they had the right to do.

(01:48:34):
I didn't understand what was going on.
like, where does the legal system have a right?
Tell me I can't be a.
Right.
And I didn't understand any of this.
I didn't understand what was happening.
um But yeah, so.
What I did know though, from growing up the way I did was I knew I needed to hire alawyer.
That much I did know.

(01:48:55):
So I did.
ah I did.
I hired two of the best lawyers in Nashville, which I think ended up hurting me in thelong run, but I did.
ah So.

(01:49:17):
Anyway, um, they let me out.
hold me for 16 hours.
What a crit.
Like, so I was in there, I was in the drunk tank and I was, yeah, it was, it was prettyrough, but I'd had enough Xanax in me from that, that it, know, the detox wasn't setting.
Right.

(01:49:38):
they held me for 16 hours.
So I was in there in this drunk tank, concrete floor.
Nope.
mean, it was just rough.
and they bring this guy in who come to find out was going to be part of my story later on.
They hand me this food and I'm just appalled at this tray of what they call food and I'mtrying to like choke down anything and this guy, I ended up calling him Cheddar Bob from

(01:50:06):
the movie, ah the Eminem movie, my God, either way.
Eight Mile.
Eight Mile.
So yeah, I ended up nicknaming this guy Cheddar Bob because he'd been shot, right?
Like he violated a protection order and his
and Law shot him three times.

(01:50:26):
Oh God.
And he had this colostomy bag and I didn't know colostomy bags gurgled.
Right?
so I'm sitting there and I'm sitting there and I'm just I'm so scared.
I have no idea what's going on.
I'm trying to maintain composure and

(01:50:50):
And all I can hear is his colostomy bag gurgling, right?
And I'm like, god, so Cheddar Bob, who comes into my story later on.
ah So they let me out.
The 16 hour holds over.
They let me out.
ah My office manager, which was a dear friend at the time,

(01:51:11):
is there to pick me up, you know, they, make sure they tell me before I leave that, youknow, we're going to let you go home so you can get some things, but you are not to
contact your wife.
You are not to contact your kids.
They will not be at the house while you're there.
So I really, you know, I'm still in suicide mode very much.

(01:51:34):
So, you know, I do go home, right.
And
I all I care about is that bottle of Xanax and the rest of that gray goose.
So I, this will kick me in the ass later on, but I literally grabbed a backpack and Ireach in the dirty hamper clothes, grab some clothes because it, I don't know why I

(01:51:56):
thought I was a grown ass man, but I don't know why I thought I had to hide the gray goosebottle.
So I reach in the hamper and
Grab a handful of dirty clothes and I shove them around that gray goose bottle and thebottle is annex and Out the door I go that was the last time I was in that house That was
it like I didn't get to go back to that house ever right even through the divorce.

(01:52:20):
I didn't get to go Wow.
Yeah, so I go to this hotel room and I'm I'm I've got at least you know 50
40, 60 Xanax left in that bottle.
Enough vodka to get the job done.
And I go buy a few cases of beer and I'm, my job is to just finish it.

(01:52:46):
Right?
Like I just thought, I knew my kids would be taken care of.
I knew my kids would be taken care of.
uh I knew they'd be okay.
Right?
The business was sustainable.
It was running.
was, you know,
So I drink more, I take more, and I just...

(01:53:15):
couldn't get the job done.
You know, like I woke up that next day and I woke up that next day and I woke up to a textmessage from Christie, the office manager, and she goes, I'm in the lobby.
I have something for you.
And I was like, oh and I come down there and she's got a bag of Chick-fil-A.

(01:53:44):
I couldn't eat, there's no way.
And I'm a mess.
Obviously, I'm gonna have to figure out another way to get the job done because I can'tdrink and drug myself.
Like I just can't.
you still have the feeling like I have to get this done.
Yeah.
uh
I down to the lobby and she's got a piece of paper, you know, and she said, she goes, youknow, I was told before I give this to you, right?

(01:54:16):
Before I give this to you to ask you a question.
And I said, what's that?
She goes, are you done?
And I knew what she meant, right?
I knew exactly what she meant.
And I just.
I don't think I've ever cried like that.
I don't think it stopped for days, right?

(01:54:37):
Like I never cried like that, right?
haven't.
And I and I said, yeah, I think I'm done.
You know, and.
She hands me the letter and it's Kara and Jack and Maddie, and they're basically like welove you.
We want you to get help, please, please get help.

(01:55:01):
So I decide to check myself into rehab, you know, and I do, you know, uh but on the way,need, that's when I decide, you know, well, I've got to get a lawyer, you know, so we go
see a lawyer and you know, and I tell them what the plan is and they're like, yes, youneed to get to rehab.
And so I checked myself into a rehab in Nashville and it was awful.

(01:55:28):
I think was called Nashville recovery or something like that.
And, know, it was a bunch of court appointed people and was coed and it was just, it wasjust awful.
Right.
And I was like, I like no way.
Yeah, there really is.
And, uh, so I checked myself out of there and I find the place called the ranch, which isjust.

(01:55:56):
west of here about an hour.
And um I checked myself in there and sort of this kind of like God thing again creeps backinto my life.
Right.
I get out there and I you know I'm refusing detox meds you know because I'd made up mymind I was done.

(01:56:25):
right right.
done, but then it, you know, like, so I'm not doing Xanax or I'm not doing Valium.
You know, like I'm not, I'm not that bad.
I remember that.
Like, I'm like, remember telling them that.
And, you know, the, the, thing that's weird is I still wanted to leave there.
Like I, I still would have these moments of insanity that would just be like, okay, well,I'm going to pack my bags and I'm walking.

(01:56:52):
Mm-hmm.
Right?
I would, I'd pack my bags and I'd get ready to head out the door and there was this guynamed Ryan who, you know, I mean, he really helped me out there a lot.
didn't stay, he didn't stay sober, but he brought me back twice and he brought me backtwice and was like,

(01:57:15):
What is it gonna, you know, like just stay, right?
Like just give it a, and then on the third time, I packed my bags and I had them at thedoor and Charles, who was my counselor out there, who, which actually I'm gonna text when
this is, you know, when we're done here, but he said, I've got a letter from Madeline foryou.

(01:57:43):
And it basically was somehow word had got out that I was threatening to leave or whatever.
I don't know if Madeline wrote this or not.
I really don't.
I've never asked her and I probably never will.
But it basically was like, dad, I love you.
If you leave there, like I'm going to be extremely disappointed.

(01:58:04):
That didn't get the job done because I was still going to leave.
Right.
But it stayed in my conscience and.
We went to this offsite class meeting thing and I was in the back of this paddy wagon andwe get there and I'm sitting in the very back up against the door just waiting to get done

(01:58:29):
so I can grab my bags and leave and it ends and we're in the back of this paddy wagon andwe're driving and.
I'm sitting in the back with, his name is Timo, who I really grew quite fond of while Iwas in there.
One of the littlest men I've ever seen in my life.

(01:58:51):
Yeah, just this little guy.
And I'm in the back seat with him.
And the next thing I know, I'm on the road, laying on the road.
Right?
Like I'm sprawled out on the road.
I got piss all over me.
Right?
I had a seizure in the back of that paddy wagon.

(01:59:14):
um
And I busted, I had blood all over me.
I busted my face on his knee, right?
And he was flamboyant, like God love him, but he was really, so you can just imagine, I'mgushing blood, I'm flopping like a fish, and he's freaking the fuck out.
And I wake up and I'm on the road and everybody's like staring down at me.

(01:59:40):
You know, and I've got blood all over me and I'm hurting and I don't, didn't know I'd hada seizure.
I thought we'd got in a wreck actually.
they, know, and it's weird what it takes for us to get this, right?
Like, um

(02:00:02):
that moment, I was so embarrassed that I had allowed myself to get that physically andmentally addicted to something that it broke me.
Right.
And, and, and I don't know why it was that, but it was that that was it for me.
That was it.

(02:00:23):
Like I was, I have not wanted a drink of alcohol or drugs.
That moment.
Right.
Right.
And they take me to the hospital, right?
I'm in the hospital and they don't care.
They don't give a shit, right?
They know I'm in rehab.

(02:00:43):
Right,
They get me out of there and I know, I knew like something was wrong.
Like my back hurt really fucking bad.
Like I was like, something's not right, you know, but I can't get medical treatment outthere.
Even though I was self-paying, you know, like I was, you know, couldn't get them to, youknow, and come to find out like I'd broke my back.

(02:01:04):
ah
Like I actually had compression fractures due to the seizure.
And so I end up staying out there 55 days at the ranch.
I stayed out there 55 days.
They actually made me leave.
Right.
Because I stayed out there.
My 30 days was up and I was like, man, can I just stay longer?

(02:01:27):
I really need to stay longer.
And I ended up staying out there because it felt like the world
Like I was in a bubble almost like the rest of the legal, the divorce, like none of thatlike her, like I was safe and protected there.
And, and, know, Charles pretty well, you know, I mean, he told me, he was like, you know,we're, we're going to make you leave and, um,

(02:01:57):
Right.
Like, so I felt like I was protected and he knew what I was doing.
Right.
Like I, like Charles was very instrumental in the whole thing.
Right.
And, and I remember, and this is probably where it would be a good leading up point tostop.
He asked me what my plan was when I got out.
Right.

(02:02:17):
He's like, what is your plan for today?
Right.
Cause it was a Friday.
Right.
And I told him, like, you well, I'm gonna be selfish, right?
I want a big red and I'm gonna play video games.
And he said, no, no, not today.
Today, get your ass to a meeting.

(02:02:40):
Be selfish on Saturday.
God, right?
you know, and like we'll get into the whole God journey with me, know, atheist God,
All right, we're gonna we're gonna stop it right there.
So this will be part one of Charles story and The next one will be coming soon

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