July 15, 2025 • 74 mins
Danielle shares what it was like to live in an abusive marriage while silently battling depression, alcoholism, and the pressures of motherhood. During the Covid pandemic, she was raising her children, working from home, and struggling from alcoholism. In this episode, we talk about the emotional toll of high-functioning addiction, domestic violence, and what it means to live in survival mode for so long that it starts to feel normal. Danielle opens up about the moment she knew she had to leave, the guilt that followed, and the process of starting over—for herself and for her kids.
SAMHSA National Helpline
1-800-662-HELP (4357)
The National Domestic Violence Hotline
800-799-SAFE or Text “START” to 88788
Beyond the Monsters Socials
https://www.instagram.com/beyondthemonsters/
https://linktr.ee/BeyondtheMonsters
*Disclaimer: The content shared on this podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes only. The discussions and experiences shared are based on our personal stories and opinions. This is not medical advice, and it should not be used as a substitute for professional medical guidance. Always consult with a qualified healthcare provider for any concerns or questions regarding your health.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi and welcome back to Beyond the Monsters.
Today I have Danielle with us and she's here from New York and we're gonna dive into herstory.
(00:24):
Alright Danielle, you flew in today, right?
Did you fly in today or yesterday?
Okay, how was your flight?
Easy, quick, in and out of Newark.
That's perfect.
That usually doesn't happen.
I know, I was a little surprised.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Well, you know, I only know the little bit about your story that when you wrote in and I'mjust gonna let you go ahead and take over tell your story from where you would like to
(00:49):
start Just dive in
Sure, I would love to.
Thank you for having me here today.
I guess I will start with I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania, very sheltered life.
I couldn't wait to get out.
(01:11):
And as soon as I turned 18, I moved to New York City.
Yeah.
I was like, I'm done with the small town living.
And I actually applied to two colleges, FIT and Parsons.
And I was very determined.
And I got into Parsons and moved there when I was 18.
(01:36):
Had an amazing education.
I got to study abroad for an entire year.
I did semester at sea.
Wonderful.
went around the world on a cruise ship, and then I did a semester in Paris.
And when I came back, I felt like I announced to everybody, I'm ready to settle down.
I'm ready to get married.
(01:56):
And I wanted so badly to have a family and check all the boxes.
College degree, job, husband.
And I.
met my soon-to-be ex-husband at a rooftop bar in New York City in the summer.
(02:19):
It felt like a fairy tale, like first responder in New York City.
It was just very exciting.
Then we got married right before my 26th birthday.
there were issues throughout the relationship, probably a lot of red flags that I ignored.
(02:49):
We bought a house and we went on to have my son when I was 29 and my daughter when I was31.
I would say right around the pandemic, everything shifted.
(03:09):
working from home.
em My son was diagnosed with autism, had special needs.
He was medically complex.
And I had a newborn daughter.
They're two years apart.
They have the same birthday two years.
How cool.
So it was definitely a very overwhelming time.
(03:30):
I went back to work six weeks after she was born.
em And having a two-year-old with special needs.
my life just imploded.
I wasn't sure if it was postpartum depression.
Then COVID hit and everything just started falling apart.
(03:51):
um I would start drinking at 11 o'clock in the morning um because I could because I wasworking from home.
Then I was also
self medicating because I was suffering with depression and combining antidepressants andalcohol and it just made things so much worse and um I was drinking to cope with the abuse
(04:25):
at home.
um It was a very abusive marriage.
um
If you don't mind telling us what kind of things were happening that led to wanting todrink, to feeling you needed that escape.
It was survival, I would say.
(04:49):
I was very good at hiding the abuse and pretending like everything was okay.
um But I guess the best way to describe it was it felt like I was dying inside.
Was it physical and emotional?
Mental, emotional, physical.
um The verbal abuse, I would say, was sometimes worse than the physical abuse.
(05:13):
um But in February of 2021...
he assaulted me in front of our kids.
threw me against the wall.
And that led to me filing a police report, getting a restraining order.
(05:36):
He at the time to, he was said to save our marriage.
He went into a mental hospital.
So no,
Charges were filed against him because he was being institutionalized.
uh Unfortunately, at the time, it was such a slippery slope that I was in um becausesurviving the abuse and then using substances um just exasperated everything.
(06:13):
I was actually doing um
ketamine infusions on top of antidepressants, on top of drinking three bottles of Girl.
Yeah, it was like a disaster.
Right.
And my whole life kind of, at that point, blew up.
That was the turning point.
um I unfortunately, because of the alcohol and the antidepressants and the ketamine,
(06:42):
had a manic episode and I had to be hospitalized two times to get me out of a manicepisode.
What happened?
What did you experience?
If you want to Just so people understand what does a manic episode look like.
(07:02):
m
you know, because I was abusing alcohol and on antidepressants and ketamine created kindof like this perfect storm and um I just spiraled and for a few months I wasn't eating, I
(07:23):
wasn't sleeping.
um
It was a very...
God.
Around the clock.
Things stopped making sense.
I was just drinking all day.
At that point, my soon-to-be ex-husband filed for divorce in March.
(07:52):
In April, I had
custody of my two young kids, they were two and four at the time, I was only allowed tosee them supervised.
It was a very, very tricky time because the kids got their own attorney.
(08:16):
We had to get a forensic psychologist involved and it was just a very long drawn outprocess.
When I was...
um hospitalized for the manic episode, um they diagnosed me with bipolar, but it wasbecause they weren't um addressing the issue which was substance abuse, that I was abusing
(08:43):
alcohol.
They put me on lithium, they put me on all these pharmaceuticals.
They loaded you up.
Oh, I was a zombie, complete zombie.
um I started having tardive dyskinesia, is shakes and tremors, and then my son would bemimicking them.
(09:09):
I was having supervised visits and I was isolated and alone and I continued drinkingbecause I was lonely, I was bored and
(09:30):
At that point, it was a vicious cycle that I didn't know how to get out of.
Oh, yes.
It was survival mode with everything going on.
Then in September of 2023 was like the aha moment.
(09:51):
My family decided to hire an interventionist.
I didn't see it coming.
And I agreed to go to rehab on my own accord before they actually had the intervention.
um And I spent three weeks in California at Betty Ford Clinic.
(10:12):
um And while I was there, my ex-husband or soon to be ex-husband had an emergency hearingto terminate my parental rights and have me evicted from our house.
Of course you Yes.
So this hearing happened, I think, the day I was flying home.
(10:34):
And the judge ordered me out of the house.
So I had just returned from the West Coast back to New York.
And they weren't even going to let me into the house.
Like, my lawyer had to fight to let me get my stuff.
So I had until Monday at like 5 o'clock to
(10:57):
get all my belongings packed up, find a place to live.
At the same time, I haven't seen my kids in three weeks and I was notified by court order,I'm no longer allowed to see my children.
My whole life fell apart at that point.
I couldn't even focus on my recovery because I had a million other things.
(11:22):
uh
on all of that yeah.
have family or anything anybody that was there for you during it?
I had my mom, but at that point, I think everybody was so fed up with me.
um She did come to help me pack up all my stuff, move it into storage.
(11:44):
um I had a therapist help me uh get into a sober living facility in Long Island because Ihad no idea where I would move.
By Monday, I had to be out of the house and move into sober living.
Are you still working at this point?
(12:04):
Yes, I had taken some time off, gone back, taken time off, a lot of FMLA.
um I took the three weeks off while I was in rehab um and then returned back to work andthen started my path to recovery, I think is the best way to put it.
(12:34):
um I moved into Sober Living.
did an IOP.
I basically did whatever anybody told me to do.
So at this point you're sober for three weeks.
Correct.
Okay, all this is happening.
Now you're in sober living, doing IOP, doing everything you're told to do.
Okay.
(12:55):
doing whatever it takes.
um For about a year, I was only allowed to see my children for two hours a week in alawyer's office supervised visitation.
And I had to pay, I think it was like $1,000 a month in order to see my kids for two hoursa week.
during that time, had probably to pay the attorney for that time.
(13:19):
had to pay a social worker, yeah.
I think it was $2.50 a week, yeah.
Wow.
So that was a very hard year for me trying to become a member of society, a functioningmember of society.
(13:47):
And how painful it is to only be able to see your kids for two hours a week, like spendingChristmas in a lawyer's office or their birthdays in a lawyer's office.
And even for the month I got back, my ex-husband was not uh following the court order toeven let me see the kids.
(14:11):
So it was a very, very painful time.
But I am happy to say I am now, um September of this year will be three years from when Iwent to rehab.
yeah, yeah.
and I was able to get my life back.
(14:34):
I no longer have supervised visits.
I have my kids every weekend.
um
Did he fight you on all that?
He is still fighting me out.
Yes, our divorce is going to trial in July.
five years.
Wow.
(14:56):
fighting me tooth and nail.
Wow.
did, was his abuse ever addressed in the domestic violence and?
I think one of the worst parts of all of this is that a month ago, I went to court andwe've had three or four judges now because of how long it's taken.
(15:23):
She said, even if there was alleged abuse, it's no longer relevant.
My jaw just dropped.
can't fathom how it's not relevant.
He was the one pouring me glasses of wine at 11 o'clock in the morning when I was working.
(15:45):
He was the one buying me three bottles of wine saying I was more fun when I was drunkbecause it was easier to manipulate me.
Yes.
I mean, even this week when I went to drop off the kids, he was like, do you want a drinkor here, smell my martini?
(16:08):
I swear to God, he makes moonshine at home with the kids, but nobody looks at his part.
They only look at my part.
can't believe he asked you if you wanted a sm- My God.
Wow.
Yes, so my mom and my sister are both recovering alcoholics as well and he always told methat I was brainwashed and that AA is a cult and that I have an unhealthy relationship
(16:40):
with alcohol.
He definitely wanted a drinking partner.
Oh, for sure.
Yes.
Misery loves company.
For sure.
So he's a drinker.
Heavily.
Okay.
and his family.
mean, we're both Irish-German, so we come from a long lineage of- Right.
(17:04):
Yeah.
Right.
Wow.
So is it your mom's side where the drinkers are?
I would say, yeah.
And we talked a little bit just briefly before we started about generational trauma.
Is there a lot of that on your side?
(17:25):
Absolutely.
oh
Did they dive into any of that for you during rehab?
You know, cause a lot of times people go away, they go to rehab and it's like, oh, youknow, say you're an alcoholic, drug addict, whatever, go around the room, everybody talks
about it and just don't, don't do drugs.
You know what I mean?
Don't, don't, don't drink alcohol.
But I feel a lot of times they don't go to the root causes and help you from where did itstem from?
(17:50):
What caused all this?
Like you need to address all that.
I was so numb in rehab that I didn't even know what was happening around me.
I think it took a couple of months for my body to fully detox from the effects of drinkingmagnums of wine every single day.
(18:14):
That was my drink of choice.
Was your actual detoxing, you know, the withdrawals, were they bad?
I don't even remember.
I know they put me into detox for like 24 hours.
They gave me some medicine, and then they sent me into general population.
(18:36):
was very funny because the only way I would agree to go to rehab was if I got a vacationout of it.
So I insisted on Malibu or California because that's the logical thinking side of me.
I want a vacation out of this.
A pool sounded great, but even if they tried talking to me about generational traumas, Ithink I was so checked out at that point.
(19:03):
I wasn't feeling it.
My body couldn't process the information.
I was just at best a zombie.
Just do what I was told to do.
Breakfast is at seven, go to breakfast.
I had to learn how to basically live again.
(19:27):
It's like being a toddler.
Yes, because for so long I was numbing and disassociating and checked out.
um
So how did you feel like once you got out of rehab and you're in the sober living?
How long did you stay in sober living?
(19:49):
A couple of months, October, November, December, January.
I moved out in February.
I moved down to the Jersey Shore by my mom um and I continued my IOP.
It was my first sense of- um
(20:14):
being a part of the real world again, because sober living is such a structuredenvironment.
You have curfews, and you have drug tests.
Lots of rules.
And you're sharing bedrooms with women.
em it's very hard to go from being independent to being in such a structured environmentand being told you have to go to a meeting every single day.
(20:39):
So many rules.
they had you in intensive like daily Monday through Friday.
I hope
It was twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays.
I was still working at the time.
I think it was like three hours a day.
um But when I wasn't there, it was meetings.
(21:00):
um Again, it was just learning how to be a functioning member of society again, how totake care of yourself, how to cook again, or even take a shower or brush your teeth or do
work.
How did you do all that again?
How did you learn and like what steps did you take to get there?
(21:23):
Because that's a lot.
It was like starting all over.
Crotch.
Yeah.
So I moved down to the Jersey Shore for the winter and then I sublet an apartment backtowards New York City so I could be closer to the kids.
That's ultimately where I wanted to be.
(21:44):
And um my sublet was coming to an end and I was looking everywhere high and low for anapartment.
um And I finally found one.
um It was a very exciting time in my life because I was able to get a three bedroom boundstone for me and my children.
(22:11):
And it was so exciting because right at the same time, I was getting custody of them back.
It was no longer supervised visits.
So like it overlapped.
how much time has this been then since you got out of rehab?
That was probably August.
almost a full year.
And having an apartment in my name with nobody else on the lease, like, because...
(22:39):
Like I said, I met my husband or my boyfriend at the time when I was 21.
I never had a chance to be on my own.
um I had to learn how to get a car in my name.
(23:00):
I had to learn how to get a car insurance.
All these things that-
He did all that?
He did all that stuff.
And, you know, getting an apartment was like...
freedom for me and being able to decorate my son and daughter's bedrooms.
(23:20):
It still is my little sanctuary and our safe place.
um I feel very safe there and I was able to heal there and find hobbies again and thingsthat I enjoy.
I uh worked with an addiction therapist and
(23:43):
addiction psychiatrists and joined domestic violence support groups.
um just to have my feelings validated and heard because I think throughout this wholeprocess, I lost my voice and I lost myself and I lost my identity.
(24:06):
I didn't even know who I was anymore.
And um
It took a lot of work.
Yeah, I mean you were being physically and emotionally abused, lost your kids, know,alcohol, all those things.
It's just, that is a lot to overcome.
And how do you not lose yourself during that?
(24:29):
You do have to rebuild new because like you said, you had to learn how to do it allwithout the substances.
Yeah, and that was probably the hardest part
How did you stay sober?
Because you know, there's so many, it's a roller coaster up and down and something happensand you really just want to drink or take a pill or whatever it might be when you're going
(24:51):
through it.
Because it sounds like you were going through it a lot and still are.
So how, what's been your key to staying sober?
At first, it was accountability because in sober living, we were drug tested.
Then at IOP, we were tested for alcohol twice a week.
(25:16):
um I think the biggest motivation for me was my kids.
I just couldn't continue on that.
And ah I knew the only way to get custody back was to stay sober.
(25:40):
the accountability and doing it for me and my kids and as I like healed and progressed, Irealized I'm doing it for me and nobody else.
Like, I love my kids to death, but I'm no good to them if I'm not sober.
about you right right well you know because it's so hard like you hear people all the timeyou know and outsiders looking in you want to judge and people are like why can't they
(26:09):
just do it for their kids like they have kids and everybody's so different in theiraddiction it sounds
easy to say.
Well, just do it for
thankfully you were able to look at it like that because there's so many people thatcan't.
It doesn't matter what it is, they still can't stop for whatever reason.
(26:30):
uh
When I was in it though, I couldn't.
It took that, you know.
intervention, so to speak, as a wake up call.
And at that point, I was just so numb and lost that I was agreeing to whatever anybodytold me.
(26:51):
You probably felt like there was no hope at that point anyway.
Yeah, I was just I think you know
Counting down the minutes till I could drink and then fall asleep and it was just avicious cycle.
I wasn't even living right
Were you so functioning at work?
(27:14):
Barely.
mean, I was keeping a job, but.
They knew something was up?
Yeah.
absolutely.
Okay.
um At that point, we had returned to the office one day a week and I think a managerpulled me in and was like, we're worried about you.
People were saying they were worried about me, but I didn't know how to fix the problem.
(27:40):
I was so far into my addiction that I couldn't see how to get out or see the light to getout.
um
I don't think anybody wants to admit, have a problem and I need help or I need to go torehab.
(28:01):
It's very rare that somebody does it on their own accord.
I needed my family to step in and push me.
Yeah, and a lot of people don't have family that will do that.
It's so sad, but reality, yeah, gosh, that is, even thinking about that, that there's somany people that have no family.
(28:28):
Everybody's given up on them already, too, because of their addiction, where, like yousaid, people were sick of my shit, you know?
And they do give up.
I think if my family hadn't stepped in, I probably would have dragged myself to death.
I don't think I would have been able to get myself help.
(28:54):
Do you think, did the kids notice something was wrong?
Because they're young.
They were scared to be around me.
ah They were, yeah, they definitely did.
(29:15):
I thought, well, I drank the day before they saw me, but I was still hungover.
I still reeked of alcohol.
My ex would comment, there's six magnums of wine in the trash can, and I didn't seeanything wrong with that.
I would wait until the liquor store opened at 10 o'clock and be the first one in line.
(29:37):
Really?
It was really bad.
Did you drink as a teenager or like the younger years?
Yes, I was very much a party girl.
My parents were very hands off.
um They would, my dad would be on business trips a lot.
(29:59):
My mom was not involved.
um
So I had lots and lots of parties.
We would drink on the weekends.
uh
drinking with you guys too at this point?
No.
My mom got sober when I was three.
So I grew up going to AA meetings.
(30:20):
I grew up in the room.
Because she got sober when I was three.
Your sister, how far apart are you guys?
um My middle sister is three years older than me and my oldest sister is five years olderthan me and the middle one is uh sober but we had a very rough journey as well.
(30:47):
ah
Do you think a lot does a lot of it stem from some of the generational traumas or didthings happen when you guys were younger?
I think for sure there was a lot of um fighting em between my parents.
m
(31:07):
This is even after mom was sober.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um.
My mom, I would say, was a dry drunk.
Her life became about AI.
So Christmases, there were 24-hour meetings and she wouldn't be home.
And she just...
(31:30):
She had my oldest sister when she was 21, so she was very young.
And I don't think she knew how to be a mother.
And so her life became about AA.
And we were, I would say, to raise ourselves.
(31:54):
So she was hyper focused on all of that.
Saving everybody else.
Okay, lots of Sponses
Yeah.
During this time, is she not fixing herself emotionally?
I think she was emotionally stunted at that point.
(32:14):
It's easier to try to fix other people than yourself.
Correct.
I think we all know that, right?
you know, her only priority was staying sober.
And I, you know, I remember her saying, you know, my sobriety is more important than mychildren.
And when you're a kid hearing that, yes, yes.
(32:39):
And you know, you internalize that.
And um
Did that make you feel rebellious, like as far as alcohol went, like when you got in yourteenage years?
Because she'd be saying stuff like that and you're like, okay.
So I will say, I always struggled with my weight and my confidence.
(33:04):
I was the popular fat girl.
When I was 18, I had gastric bypass.
And my mom had gastric bypass, and both my sisters had gastric bypass.
And so I do think, you know.
I was gonna say it, because girl you're thin now.
I've worked very, very hard on getting fit.
(33:27):
Fitness has become an important component to my mental health and emotional.
But in high school, I was 300 pounds, so I felt like I had to be the fun party girl andhave the parties to compensate and to be part of the popular clique.
(33:47):
I definitely binge-drinked.
You know, I can recall a New Year's Eve party when I was in high school and I drank anentire bottle of vodka and like blacked out.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
There were a lot of binge drinking episodes and even in college, I think the whole time Iwas probably a functioning alcoholic.
(34:17):
um Once I started drinking, there was no turning it off.
I was so responsible because I wanted to prove everybody wrong.
My oldest sister suffered with substance abuse issues.
She ran away when she was 13 in and out of rehabs.
(34:41):
And at that point, I was eight.
And I remember my mom telling me, well, just wait till you're her age.
You're going to be an addict too.
And I wanted so badly to prove everybody wrong.
Right.
That I.
Like I.
do exactly what you're doing and not be an addict.
Correct.
I can go to college and I can graduate in four years and I'm going to prove everybodywrong and I'm going to get married and have kids and buy a house and have that fairy tale
(35:10):
and the white picket fence.
I think so badly, I wanted the world to think that I was okay and give off this sense of Ihave it all together.
Like he wanted to be seen.
Yeah.
no flaws because so much of my identity was tied to, well, nobody will love you if you'renothing or my confidence was nothing.
(35:47):
I think
But did you carry, I'm picturing you carrying yourself though with a lot of confidence.
oh
yes, dancing on bars in New York City.
Fake it till you make it.
Nobody.
knew what you were.
(36:08):
Did he, when you guys first were together, was he like love bombing you?
Oh, yes.
We met and then the following weekend, I think his dad invited me to the Hamptons and Ifelt like it was a whirlwind.
I was like, I'm getting invited to the Hamptons.
(36:28):
It was just so exciting to me.
He definitely figured out my insecurities and my weaknesses.
he still uses them against me.
When I dropped the kids off on Sunday, he told me that I'm now too thin and I'm too gauntand this is horrible.
(36:55):
But he said in front of the kids, he was like, do you have AIDS?
Implying that I was too thin.
I swear.
He actually said, do you have the monster?
Which I'm not sure if everybody knows, but
It's word for AIDS.
my daughter whose sex goes, mommy's a monster.
(37:20):
So even now, like...
too thin or I'm too fat like
Well, it really doesn't matter what his ass says anyway.
but he knows I'm so insecure and I crave everybody's approval that it eats at me.
You gotta just get to the point where it doesn't.
Especially coming from him.
(37:43):
Gosh, so he's probably filling the kids with all kinds of nonsense too.
If he's saying something like that in front of them, I can only imagine the things that hesays when he has them or questioning them.
Do they ever tell you anything?
Like daddy's asking me this.
Daddy wants to know what we did all weekend and all the details because...
(38:06):
Narcissists, they're real good at that stuff.
Yeah, and it's funny because I don't know if funny is the right word to use, but he had ababy with somebody shortly after I left him.
so my kids now have a half sibling who's two and a half.
And his partner actually left for the same reasons I left.
(38:32):
he
has a history of it.
created a cycle.
he does because there's nothing wrong with him.
It's everyone.
Yes, of course.
And all of his flying monkeys.
Yes.
So unfortunately, my kids have now had to see two times.
(38:56):
Yes.
And she uh fled in the middle of the night.
And it was very painful to my kids because first their mom left.
And now another mother figure with their baby sister left.
And it was very abrupt and sudden.
Yeah, because they don't understand who dad really is yet.
(39:17):
No, and part of me, you know, I spent 13 years trying to protect him and cover up theabuse and because I was afraid if people found out they would tell me to leave and I
wasn't ready to leave.
Right.
And I...
lost myself trying to save him.
drowned trying to save him.
(39:40):
And, you know, I, for me, the turning point was I couldn't let my daughter think thatthat's what love is.
And I couldn't let my son think that that's how you treat women or people that you careabout.
And so they've always been my
(40:01):
you know, motivation, they essentially saved me.
And I think it took hitting rock bottom to be able to rebuild my life.
And I'm so thankful that, you know, all of that happened.
you know,
(40:24):
So like, even when he does that, like he's asking you if you have the monster, like infront of the kid, how do you deal with that now?
Like...
So that just happened on Sunday and today's Tuesday.
I'm still processing it.
still dealing.
At first, I still mentally shut down.
I still disassociate.
(40:45):
And I responded to him and I said, well, how much do you think I should weigh?
And he goes, you need to gain 15 pounds.
You're gone.
But like,
But when you were heavier, what do call you fat?
I think he loved me 300 pounds because I was easier to control, easier to manipulate.
(41:12):
It was a reflection of how I felt about myself and the fact that I'm now working out andthat I'm happier without him.
I think that kills him.
That I was able to prove everybody wrong and-
He was waiting for you just to keep following.
(41:32):
And that's why he still offers me drinks in front of me.
crazy.
You've got to get that on video or recording sometime for the court because that's whathe's using against you.
But then...
oh
oh It's a vicious cycle.
Yeah.
(41:54):
And you know, for the past five years, all I've heard is that I'm a bad mom, that I'm anunfit mom, you know, a slew of things and it just plays over and over in your head.
Right.
But it's, you know, I'm now in, you know, domestic violence support groups because...
(42:17):
helping, you know.
tremendously to be validated and to be heard and to have people say, you're not crazy.
And to hear other stories too, to where you're like, okay, I'm not the only one.
Okay, this does happen to other people.
That has to help healing too.
(42:38):
for sure and everybody checks in on me when I have court and yeah, it's really, you know,I just, yeah.
Of people.
survivors.
Right.
Yeah.
Right?
Wow.
So even like, okay, with him saying something like that, how do you not want to just havea drink?
(43:01):
Or do you, but you have to like talk to yourself and- Because that's a deep thing for you,a deep-seated issue, you know, that he's just poking at.
He made two martinis in front of me and I wasn't even a martini drinker, but he goes tome, smell it.
(43:22):
I'm like, what's the point?
What is the point?
He still says to this day that I'm not fun because I'm sober.
You can't be fun if you're sober.
And I don't talk about sobriety with him.
(43:44):
but he took your kids away, did all the things he did to you because you were drinking.
But then...
He hates that I'm sober.
Well, because you're doing exactly opposite of what he made everyone believe you would do.
And he would love it if I was drinking.
(44:04):
a mess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It would be great if I was a His narrative.
His story of that I'm a terrible person.
I'm a terrible mom.
Right.
Are you talking to somebody to get through that?
How much she's been in your head?
oh
yes, yes, yes.
(44:25):
So my therapist is amazing.
And, you know, I asked her about my diagnosis because I was just curious.
And she was like, when we started, it was addiction.
But now, you know, you have post-traumatic stress disorder.
(44:46):
And, you know, I wasn't even able to
process of grief around losing my marriage, losing my kids, losing my house, everythingthat I had worked so hard for, because it all became about my mental health, my addiction.
(45:09):
And so I wasn't even able to grieve.
that loss.
For five years, I've been fighting an uphill battle and it's exhausting mentally,physically, emotionally.
Of course it is.
Yeah, a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of emotion.
(45:29):
It's a never ending battle.
m
you're gonna feel like you're in the Twilight Zone, like don't know what to do withyourself.
Like, my God, I have this time and I feel free and God, you just need to be like done withthis guy.
ah Do you think he's dragging it out on purpose?
(45:51):
Well, he knows you.
He knows it's probably wearing you down.
Financial reasons and break me so that I agree to whatever he wants.
We are going to trial in July um because he wants uh residential custody of the kids.
(46:13):
And so it's also about finances.
I have to pay him child support right now, even though he's unemployed at the moment.
But I have to pay him child support because whoever has 50, or if you have 50-50.
you're in New Jersey, right?
They're tough with their child support.
(46:34):
I'm actually in New York, which I think is even tougher.
It's through the Supreme Court.
So it's a Supreme Court judge.
So I have to pay him $150 every week while I'm unemployed.
So it's about
get them every weekend?
Correct.
(46:55):
So he gets money, he gets paid, and he gets free weekends.
Yes, and he turns around and gives his girlfriend child support.
It's a crazy cycle, and we are now in a custody battle.
(47:19):
I couldn't.
them full time now?
so you're fighting for that and you've been sober
For three years, almost three years.
I almost feel like when you see him and he taunts you like that, he's doing it on purpose.
Just so he can have some proof to prove that you're not a fit mom.
(47:44):
I think so, yeah.
calculated.
Very, very.
I know, they're the scary ones.
I would agree with that.
And the worst thing is I didn't see it for 13 years.
And then when it hits you, it hits you like a ton of bricks.
(48:04):
You're like, how did I not see this?
And then you're angry with yourself.
So on top of trying to stay sober and be the best mom I can be, I'm also dealing with allthis legal stuff and the grief around that.
um
me did I want to drink the first year out of rehab, it was a daily fight.
(48:35):
And they tell you don't drive by liquor stores, avoid driving by triggers.
And the temptation was so high because um
You know, my triggers are boredom, loneliness, being isolated.
(48:55):
was coping.
the things you were living.
Yes.
So, you know, once I figure out ways to alleviate those like new hobbies and distractions,I would say after a year and I got custody of my kids back,
(49:18):
The idea of drinking or wanting to drink just went away.
Maybe it helped too, just knowing every weekend you were gonna have your kids.
You had something to look forward to.
know, like idle time and loneliness and all that.
I mean, you can really get in your head, especially if you're going through legal shit andyou have nothing to look forward to that first year.
(49:43):
You know, you don't have the kids back yet.
All those things.
I was only allowed to see them for two hours.
Yeah, like two hours is nothing
Did you feel a big shift once you knew you were gonna get him every weekend?
Could you like, like...
I think at first it was such a shock because it happened out of the blue suddenly,abruptly.
(50:06):
One week it was supervised visits, and then the next weekend I was taking them to the zoo.
um So it went from very, very structured to I think all of us who are a little bit inshock, we're not in a lawyer's office anymore.
Right.
did he agree to that or the judge just ordered it?
(50:27):
he agreed to that every weekend.
but I think that's when things were falling apart with his girlfriend.
Oh, yes.
I loved you.
She did reach out to me when I was getting custody of the kids back.
(50:48):
She- um
asked me my side of the story.
And that's when she told me she left for the same reasons.
And he actually told her that I was the abusive one.
And course, know, yeah, like she didn't know what to believe.
(51:09):
Yeah.
And so, you know, I feel bad that she's going through, you know, what I went through.
And I think it's a shame that, you know, he gets away with it.
Yeah, maybe she can be an ally for you though, like in the court for you to get custody.
(51:30):
She offered to write a letter of support.
I think we'll just see what happens in July.
I'm not giving up.
on the judge too, like if they're looking at it like, that's just another woman scorned.
You're gonna actually take into account what she went through too, and it was similar toyours.
(51:50):
You just never know with the court.
Yeah, you never know.
I mean, I think they just want us to settle so bad.
They want us to figure it out on our own.
But I don't think anybody realizes how difficult it is divorcing a narcissist.
It's probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
(52:11):
need a narcissist rehabs like surviving one.
Yeah.
It's such a mind non stop.
All those years like how do you even go back to normal?
Like it's it's really hard.
I have to take a day and decompress after seeing him to digest what was said to me.
(52:41):
And I'm like, did this really just happen?
I remember a couple of months ago, he called me and I don't know if I'm allowed to say itin a perfect way.
So he called me.
a malignant cunt, a schizophrenic, a jerk off all in one sentence.
And I like gasped and I was like, can you repeat what you just said?
(53:04):
And he goes, did I stutter?
And I like, literally had to like put it in my notes on my phone because I couldn'tbelieve what was being said to me.
And the cr-
know the rules in New York with recording, but I would be hitting record on my phone everysingle time you talk to this guy.
(53:27):
The problem is, don't they get a notification?
No.
no.
m
I'll just show you.
Yeah, because I do.
But when I hit record, it's like your call is now being recorded.
don't think so.
I don't know.
That'd be something for your attorneys too to find out is it admissible in New Yorkbecause sometimes you have to say, I'm recording the conversation.
(53:53):
Yeah, but I know two party can yeah, I hate jargon.
Yeah
should just be like, thank you.
Thank you.
you for that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But if I called him a dick, you know,
so you don't say anything back really.
(54:13):
I wish I had that ability.
I lack that.
People are like, oh, you need to stand up for yourself.
You need to find your voice.
You need to do this and do that.
And what people don't realize is that I'm trying to undo 13 years of abuse that wasingrained in me.
(54:36):
And it doesn't happen overnight.
He doesn't care.
He's so focused on himself.
And his ego.
Yeah.
10 years ago, nobody talked about narcissistic abuse.
It wasn't relevant.
(54:57):
now it's out there everywhere.
There's lawyers who specialize in it.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I could see.
They're seriously abusive.
They're very abusive and you know, he enabled my drinking, you know.
(55:22):
Yeah.
He wanted to just always stay above you.
But at least you see that now.
Yeah.
know?
Even his behavior, these dumb behaviors that he keeps doing all the time, he's just tryingto bait you.
and sometimes at work.
Yeah, I mean I could see that that that would be hard to deal with I would do you have totalk to him?
(55:44):
You should make him have to communicate through the
The Parrot app, the Wizard app.
um
It's all about optics and the divorce and custody proceedings.
So it looks like you're not like you're being difficult and you're not trying to co-parentand doing what's in the kids best interest.
(56:05):
like.
definitely not in the kid's best interest for him to be a constant manipulator and justnasty narcissist to the mom that he even has that opportunity.
Sounds like he takes every opportunity he can.
Oh, 100%.
And he blew up in court and the judge actually yelled at him.
did?
Yeah, I was shaking.
(56:26):
was shaking.
He stood up and she was like, you do not address me, you sit down.
And if you have anything to say, you say it to your lawyer.
Good.
Oh, was scary.
So he filed a motion for child support against me and she goes to him, you know.
(56:47):
you make $168,000 a year, you owe her spousal support and cause him to blow up.
Good.
you're I can breathe, but yeah.
No, was shaking.
I was shaking.
was like, what just happened?
(57:07):
Yeah, it was a trauma response.
How are his attorneys?
Are they fair?
they?
complete shitheads.
uh
Yours.
He's great.
Yeah.
OK.
Yeah, I'm lucky.
OK.
I actually had to get a new lawyer because it's all in.
I've spent $150,000.
(57:27):
I'm sure.
legal fees.
And we haven't gone to trial yet.
It's just it's such a waste of time.
And the courts usually do want, like you've said, they want you to settle it amongstyourselves, through mediation or something, but he sounds like he's just really difficult,
so you probably can't.
(57:48):
The fact that he let you have the kids back every weekend, I feel like it's probably justbecause he didn't want to have to take care of them on the weekends.
So he's a he is a fireman and he has to work 24s.
So when they're with him during the week, they're with their grandparents.
They're not even with him.
(58:10):
It's just about being able to say, I got custody of the kids.
And because if I get custody, then
It pokes holes in his story of me being a bad mom.
Mm-hmm.
So sad you you would think that for the kids sake you'd be like proud of you, but that'snever gonna happen
(58:37):
No, no, because he thinks fun Danielle's gone, you know?
Yeah, God forbid you get sober.
I wanted to tell him, do you remember when you couldn't even trust me to have our kids?
(58:58):
Like, is that what you want to go back to?
Because if I start drinking, that's inevitably what's going to happen.
course he's okay with it, because it just makes him right.
And that's scary that anybody would want that for the mother of their children.
Right.
(59:18):
Is the other girl, did she experience pretty much the same?
It never got physical, but it was verbal.
she actually, you know, God bless her.
was six, well, less than a year, but you know, um she called his mom and said, your son isabusive.
(59:39):
And trust me, she did not like that.
He's a mama's boy.
Oh, can do no wrong.
You know, they hate me because I ruined their perfect family image.
Like everybody knew about the abuse, but everybody turned a blind eye to it.
(01:00:02):
And like what I don't understand is if I was in such a bad place and I was suffering sogreatly, why didn't anybody
Try to help me.
Nope.
Never.
Well, and this is just how he's gonna be because he moved on real quick and she's gone nowtoo.
(01:00:23):
Yeah, it's like who's next.
Yeah, the next victim.
Right?
will be one, unfortunately.
It's just sad that the kids have to be around that.
It is.
I feel for my kids.
But in therapy and in group, I've learned that I'm able to give them a safe environment.
(01:00:46):
so they get two days with me, Saturday and Sunday.
I get them on Fridays off the bus and bring them back on Sundays.
They get two days of undivided attention.
And they just get to have fun.
And even when they're with him, they're in school.
putting them to bed, it's a couple of hours, but I get to be the fun mom and do all those.
(01:01:11):
And have a safe, loving, supportive environment.
They are so attached to me, so clingy, and I love that.
I love that I can be their safe place.
(01:01:31):
Yeah.
Have you started dating?
Okay, how long did it take you?
I definitely was on the apps.
Oh, yeah.
I don't miss those.
Big old chit-chat.
Yeah.
(01:01:51):
Or dumpster fire.
I was on those a couple months after I left him because I just was so bored and lonely.
Right.
Didn't want to be alone.
Yeah.
Isolation was like I was crawling out of my skin.
um But I started dating somebody in September, so it's been about 10 months now.
(01:02:15):
Okay.
And we're very happy.
You're like, wow, I didn't know it could be like that.
That's wonderful.
I was afraid of commitment.
I was like, I'm fine being alone.
I am fine never being in a relationship again.
(01:02:36):
And then I met him and all my guards came down.
And it was the first time I knew what a safe love felt like.
And that was very healing because
I hated being touched.
I hated being hugged.
Like it felt like I was suffocating.
(01:02:58):
Because, you know, the person I thought who loved me would hurt me physically oremotionally.
And so then to have somebody who was able to hold me and like protect me and I'm able tolike be in my feminine
(01:03:20):
Era and energy now because he is kind and he's caring and he's safe and supportive andwants what's best for me.
my friend.
My best friend was like, you're used to guys who want to get you drunk or want to get youhigh.
(01:03:44):
He wants you.
eating while sleeping, working out, like he wants you to be the best version of yourself.
Oh, to be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you fight the relationship in the beginning?
Like, there's no way that he's real or...
I was got a big hair.
I I was like I caught myself pushing him away, right?
(01:04:07):
um Because I was afraid to be vulnerable.
Yeah, I was afraid to let somebody in again because I was like no never happening He hasmet the kids one time the kids know about him and
I'm glad that my kids get to see me be happy and see me being treated how I deserve.
(01:04:36):
what they need to see so they grow up feeling the same.
Right.
I can't believe you're still in it.
I'm still in it, but I feel like I'm at the finish line.
I feel like it's like a metamorphosis.
I set my whole world on fire.
(01:04:56):
I watched it blow up in front of me and I walked away from everything.
Literally when I got thrown out of the house, I left everything behind.
Wow, so you started over a completely.
I just moved my clothes into storage and I left everything behind.
He actually saved tchotchkes and trinkets, my wedding present, and it was the most bizarrething.
(01:05:23):
He gave it to me.
I wanted to be like, I left it for a reason.
Right.
he just wanted you to have memories of him.
ah
I'm a firm believer that things hold energy.
And so I don't want our wedding dishes.
I don't want your
that shit.
(01:05:44):
Do something.
Like, I want to smash it.
I don't know.
Like, no, I don't want any memories.
Oh, yeah.
That would be great.
Yeah.
They actually have like break rooms in New York City.
Have you been?
Good.
I think I took a bat to a TV.
(01:06:04):
Did you?
Yeah.
m
Yeah, I've seen those.
It looks pretty awesome.
I've seen that and then the axe throwing.
Yes, yes, that seems a little dangerous to me.
I feel like I might cut a hand off.
Yeah, and you're like watching other people like they're like coming back like they'relike, shit is it gonna, are they gonna drop it or what?
(01:06:26):
or like caught my face.
Yeah, for sure.
It seems like a little bit of dangerous date night, but all right.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, he has two teenagers.
oh So we're taking slow and slow.
Yeah, like it is very much um I do my thing like on the weekends with my kids.
(01:06:53):
We get together a few times a week.
But we are going slowly.
I feel like I need to survive this divorce, get through this divorce, and then start a newchapter.
For sure.
And evaluate where to
then you'll have the space emotionally to do that, you know?
For sure.
(01:07:16):
Because he just still keeps coming for you.
yeah.
And I don't know what's next.
we had court June 9.
So two weeks ago and it's you know, it's, it's like monthly, we had one in April, we hadone in May, we had one in June.
Trial those jewels.
22nd.
Yeah, right around the corner.
So are they
(01:07:36):
A lot of times they push to try to settle something before the trial.
So fingers crossed, right?
Yeah, 100%.
I'm just waiting.
Just waiting for my lawyer to email me and tell me what's next.
Well, I'm glad that you came on and shared this because you are very successful.
You've been through a lot.
(01:07:56):
You've survived narcissistic abuse.
You you do have generational traumas and hopefully like the therapist, can dig into thatstuff too.
But a lot of times it takes like mom letting you know what the other traumas are and thenyou know, to grandma or whoever.
But it's definitely a real thing.
(01:08:18):
Yeah, like even right now, I am not talking to my mom um because she has a lot ofresentment towards me for marrying somebody who is abusive.
And I actually even had to say to her recently, know, five years.
(01:08:40):
Five years.
I was with him for 13 years.
I've spent the last four and a half years.
fight.
to get out of it.
And she told me, just go back to him.
You two deserve each other.
There's a little bit of that general trap she's carrying.
(01:09:01):
I'm breaking or trying to break.
Yeah, for sure.
don't I what I want for my daughter is that if she's ever in a similar situation.
she can walk away or come to me and we can figure it out together.
(01:09:23):
um I don't want her to ever go through what I went through, whether it be the abuse or thealcohol.
I don't want my kids to ever think they can't come to me because I
(01:09:45):
They, they definitely saved me.
And if, know, I want to be there to be their biggest supporter and lift them up and knowthat we can get through anything together.
That's what family does.
Yeah Gosh, I hope your mom steps back someday and just thinks Wow, like she's not thinkingthat she's telling you should go back to the disaster of a life you're you know that it
(01:10:15):
was before with him and To see how far you've come and tell you that you should go back tohim She's not she's not processing right or something or she's got her own dealing with
because you know as a parent
You should never wish that.
I think you know people say things like that.
(01:10:37):
Yeah, uh
Would it have been easier probably and not as much money and all the other things?
Sure, but look what you were dealing with and continue to deal with.
How would she ever want you to go back to that?
I mean, everybody said that if we had stayed together, he would have killed me, or I wouldhave killed him, or we would have killed each other.
(01:10:59):
At our worst, I contemplated suicide, because it just seemed easier than dealing with theabuse.
So I know that if I stayed in that marriage or if I had stayed drinking, I wouldn't behere today.
That I know in my core.
I know for a fact.
(01:11:20):
that path I was on, I was knocking on death's door.
And you're so strong, think you're stronger than you think you are too because that, todeal with what you were emotionally and then having the kids rip from you, getting sober,
that's a lot.
That's a lot.
(01:11:40):
Like I hope you're proud of yourself.
I am.
I definitely think I am a survivor.
And I never want to be a victim.
But I am so grateful for the life I have now.
And I wouldn't have this life if I wasn't sober.
And that's the gift that sobriety gives you.
(01:12:02):
So like, what do you think would be something that you would tell other people that couldbe going through what you've been through or in the same situations with a narcissist,
alcoholism, whatever it might be, what kind of advice do you think that you would givethem so they don't give up, so they know there's hope?
was going to say, don't ever give up.
(01:12:27):
Lean on a support system.
If it's a friend or a hotline or a therapist, there are people out there that care aboutyou.
And I think when you're in such despair, you give up.
You give up hope.
You give up your dreams, your aspirations.
(01:12:48):
And just know that there are
are people out there that want to help you and will help you and you will get over this.
It's not gonna be easy.
eh But make that phone call.
Take the first step.
Say, I have a problem.
(01:13:10):
I need help.
There are so many resources out there.
There's so many.
But you know, when you're
in the thick of it.
You don't know how to ask for help.
drowning.
You need a life vest.
You need a lifesaver.
But admitting you need help is the first step.
(01:13:33):
And you can have a life beyond your wildest dreams.
It's possible.
Just work.
Yeah.
But it's so worth it.
It is so worth
I would never ever go back.
Thank you.
Thank you for.
And girl, I'm gonna be praying for you for July 22nd.
(01:13:56):
Maybe it'll happen sooner and it'll just be over.
Maybe I have an email.
You never know, right?
That would be amazing.
That would be incredible.
Alright, well I guess we'll wrap it up unless you have anything else you want to say.
It was awesome.
Yes, we're grateful.
uh
Hi and welcome back to Beyond the Monsters.
Today I have Danielle with us and she's here from New York and we're gonna dive into herstory.
(00:24):
Alright Danielle, you flew in today, right?
Did you fly in today or yesterday?
Okay, how was your flight?
Easy, quick, in and out of Newark.
That's perfect.
That usually doesn't happen.
I know, I was a little surprised.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Well, you know, I only know the little bit about your story that when you wrote in and I'mjust gonna let you go ahead and take over tell your story from where you would like to
(00:49):
start Just dive in
Sure, I would love to.
Thank you for having me here today.
I guess I will start with I grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania, very sheltered life.
I couldn't wait to get out.
(01:11):
And as soon as I turned 18, I moved to New York City.
Yeah.
I was like, I'm done with the small town living.
And I actually applied to two colleges, FIT and Parsons.
And I was very determined.
And I got into Parsons and moved there when I was 18.
(01:36):
Had an amazing education.
I got to study abroad for an entire year.
I did semester at sea.
Wonderful.
went around the world on a cruise ship, and then I did a semester in Paris.
And when I came back, I felt like I announced to everybody, I'm ready to settle down.
I'm ready to get married.
(01:56):
And I wanted so badly to have a family and check all the boxes.
College degree, job, husband.
And I.
met my soon-to-be ex-husband at a rooftop bar in New York City in the summer.
(02:19):
It felt like a fairy tale, like first responder in New York City.
It was just very exciting.
Then we got married right before my 26th birthday.
there were issues throughout the relationship, probably a lot of red flags that I ignored.
(02:49):
We bought a house and we went on to have my son when I was 29 and my daughter when I was31.
I would say right around the pandemic, everything shifted.
(03:09):
working from home.
em My son was diagnosed with autism, had special needs.
He was medically complex.
And I had a newborn daughter.
They're two years apart.
They have the same birthday two years.
How cool.
So it was definitely a very overwhelming time.
(03:30):
I went back to work six weeks after she was born.
em And having a two-year-old with special needs.
my life just imploded.
I wasn't sure if it was postpartum depression.
Then COVID hit and everything just started falling apart.
(03:51):
um I would start drinking at 11 o'clock in the morning um because I could because I wasworking from home.
Then I was also
self medicating because I was suffering with depression and combining antidepressants andalcohol and it just made things so much worse and um I was drinking to cope with the abuse
(04:25):
at home.
um It was a very abusive marriage.
um
If you don't mind telling us what kind of things were happening that led to wanting todrink, to feeling you needed that escape.
It was survival, I would say.
(04:49):
I was very good at hiding the abuse and pretending like everything was okay.
um But I guess the best way to describe it was it felt like I was dying inside.
Was it physical and emotional?
Mental, emotional, physical.
um The verbal abuse, I would say, was sometimes worse than the physical abuse.
(05:13):
um But in February of 2021...
he assaulted me in front of our kids.
threw me against the wall.
And that led to me filing a police report, getting a restraining order.
(05:36):
He at the time to, he was said to save our marriage.
He went into a mental hospital.
So no,
Charges were filed against him because he was being institutionalized.
uh Unfortunately, at the time, it was such a slippery slope that I was in um becausesurviving the abuse and then using substances um just exasperated everything.
(06:13):
I was actually doing um
ketamine infusions on top of antidepressants, on top of drinking three bottles of Girl.
Yeah, it was like a disaster.
Right.
And my whole life kind of, at that point, blew up.
That was the turning point.
um I unfortunately, because of the alcohol and the antidepressants and the ketamine,
(06:42):
had a manic episode and I had to be hospitalized two times to get me out of a manicepisode.
What happened?
What did you experience?
If you want to Just so people understand what does a manic episode look like.
(07:02):
m
you know, because I was abusing alcohol and on antidepressants and ketamine created kindof like this perfect storm and um I just spiraled and for a few months I wasn't eating, I
(07:23):
wasn't sleeping.
um
It was a very...
God.
Around the clock.
Things stopped making sense.
I was just drinking all day.
At that point, my soon-to-be ex-husband filed for divorce in March.
(07:52):
In April, I had
custody of my two young kids, they were two and four at the time, I was only allowed tosee them supervised.
It was a very, very tricky time because the kids got their own attorney.
(08:16):
We had to get a forensic psychologist involved and it was just a very long drawn outprocess.
When I was...
um hospitalized for the manic episode, um they diagnosed me with bipolar, but it wasbecause they weren't um addressing the issue which was substance abuse, that I was abusing
(08:43):
alcohol.
They put me on lithium, they put me on all these pharmaceuticals.
They loaded you up.
Oh, I was a zombie, complete zombie.
um I started having tardive dyskinesia, is shakes and tremors, and then my son would bemimicking them.
(09:09):
I was having supervised visits and I was isolated and alone and I continued drinkingbecause I was lonely, I was bored and
(09:30):
At that point, it was a vicious cycle that I didn't know how to get out of.
Oh, yes.
It was survival mode with everything going on.
Then in September of 2023 was like the aha moment.
(09:51):
My family decided to hire an interventionist.
I didn't see it coming.
And I agreed to go to rehab on my own accord before they actually had the intervention.
um And I spent three weeks in California at Betty Ford Clinic.
(10:12):
um And while I was there, my ex-husband or soon to be ex-husband had an emergency hearingto terminate my parental rights and have me evicted from our house.
Of course you Yes.
So this hearing happened, I think, the day I was flying home.
(10:34):
And the judge ordered me out of the house.
So I had just returned from the West Coast back to New York.
And they weren't even going to let me into the house.
Like, my lawyer had to fight to let me get my stuff.
So I had until Monday at like 5 o'clock to
(10:57):
get all my belongings packed up, find a place to live.
At the same time, I haven't seen my kids in three weeks and I was notified by court order,I'm no longer allowed to see my children.
My whole life fell apart at that point.
I couldn't even focus on my recovery because I had a million other things.
(11:22):
uh
on all of that yeah.
have family or anything anybody that was there for you during it?
I had my mom, but at that point, I think everybody was so fed up with me.
um She did come to help me pack up all my stuff, move it into storage.
(11:44):
um I had a therapist help me uh get into a sober living facility in Long Island because Ihad no idea where I would move.
By Monday, I had to be out of the house and move into sober living.
Are you still working at this point?
(12:04):
Yes, I had taken some time off, gone back, taken time off, a lot of FMLA.
um I took the three weeks off while I was in rehab um and then returned back to work andthen started my path to recovery, I think is the best way to put it.
(12:34):
um I moved into Sober Living.
did an IOP.
I basically did whatever anybody told me to do.
So at this point you're sober for three weeks.
Correct.
Okay, all this is happening.
Now you're in sober living, doing IOP, doing everything you're told to do.
Okay.
(12:55):
doing whatever it takes.
um For about a year, I was only allowed to see my children for two hours a week in alawyer's office supervised visitation.
And I had to pay, I think it was like $1,000 a month in order to see my kids for two hoursa week.
during that time, had probably to pay the attorney for that time.
(13:19):
had to pay a social worker, yeah.
I think it was $2.50 a week, yeah.
Wow.
So that was a very hard year for me trying to become a member of society, a functioningmember of society.
(13:47):
And how painful it is to only be able to see your kids for two hours a week, like spendingChristmas in a lawyer's office or their birthdays in a lawyer's office.
And even for the month I got back, my ex-husband was not uh following the court order toeven let me see the kids.
(14:11):
So it was a very, very painful time.
But I am happy to say I am now, um September of this year will be three years from when Iwent to rehab.
yeah, yeah.
and I was able to get my life back.
(14:34):
I no longer have supervised visits.
I have my kids every weekend.
um
Did he fight you on all that?
He is still fighting me out.
Yes, our divorce is going to trial in July.
five years.
Wow.
(14:56):
fighting me tooth and nail.
Wow.
did, was his abuse ever addressed in the domestic violence and?
I think one of the worst parts of all of this is that a month ago, I went to court andwe've had three or four judges now because of how long it's taken.
(15:23):
She said, even if there was alleged abuse, it's no longer relevant.
My jaw just dropped.
can't fathom how it's not relevant.
He was the one pouring me glasses of wine at 11 o'clock in the morning when I was working.
(15:45):
He was the one buying me three bottles of wine saying I was more fun when I was drunkbecause it was easier to manipulate me.
Yes.
I mean, even this week when I went to drop off the kids, he was like, do you want a drinkor here, smell my martini?
(16:08):
I swear to God, he makes moonshine at home with the kids, but nobody looks at his part.
They only look at my part.
can't believe he asked you if you wanted a sm- My God.
Wow.
Yes, so my mom and my sister are both recovering alcoholics as well and he always told methat I was brainwashed and that AA is a cult and that I have an unhealthy relationship
(16:40):
with alcohol.
He definitely wanted a drinking partner.
Oh, for sure.
Yes.
Misery loves company.
For sure.
So he's a drinker.
Heavily.
Okay.
and his family.
mean, we're both Irish-German, so we come from a long lineage of- Right.
(17:04):
Yeah.
Right.
Wow.
So is it your mom's side where the drinkers are?
I would say, yeah.
And we talked a little bit just briefly before we started about generational trauma.
Is there a lot of that on your side?
(17:25):
Absolutely.
oh
Did they dive into any of that for you during rehab?
You know, cause a lot of times people go away, they go to rehab and it's like, oh, youknow, say you're an alcoholic, drug addict, whatever, go around the room, everybody talks
about it and just don't, don't do drugs.
You know what I mean?
Don't, don't, don't drink alcohol.
But I feel a lot of times they don't go to the root causes and help you from where did itstem from?
(17:50):
What caused all this?
Like you need to address all that.
I was so numb in rehab that I didn't even know what was happening around me.
I think it took a couple of months for my body to fully detox from the effects of drinkingmagnums of wine every single day.
(18:14):
That was my drink of choice.
Was your actual detoxing, you know, the withdrawals, were they bad?
I don't even remember.
I know they put me into detox for like 24 hours.
They gave me some medicine, and then they sent me into general population.
(18:36):
was very funny because the only way I would agree to go to rehab was if I got a vacationout of it.
So I insisted on Malibu or California because that's the logical thinking side of me.
I want a vacation out of this.
A pool sounded great, but even if they tried talking to me about generational traumas, Ithink I was so checked out at that point.
(19:03):
I wasn't feeling it.
My body couldn't process the information.
I was just at best a zombie.
Just do what I was told to do.
Breakfast is at seven, go to breakfast.
I had to learn how to basically live again.
(19:27):
It's like being a toddler.
Yes, because for so long I was numbing and disassociating and checked out.
um
So how did you feel like once you got out of rehab and you're in the sober living?
How long did you stay in sober living?
(19:49):
A couple of months, October, November, December, January.
I moved out in February.
I moved down to the Jersey Shore by my mom um and I continued my IOP.
It was my first sense of- um
(20:14):
being a part of the real world again, because sober living is such a structuredenvironment.
You have curfews, and you have drug tests.
Lots of rules.
And you're sharing bedrooms with women.
em it's very hard to go from being independent to being in such a structured environmentand being told you have to go to a meeting every single day.
(20:39):
So many rules.
they had you in intensive like daily Monday through Friday.
I hope
It was twice a week, Tuesdays and Thursdays.
I was still working at the time.
I think it was like three hours a day.
um But when I wasn't there, it was meetings.
(21:00):
um Again, it was just learning how to be a functioning member of society again, how totake care of yourself, how to cook again, or even take a shower or brush your teeth or do
work.
How did you do all that again?
How did you learn and like what steps did you take to get there?
(21:23):
Because that's a lot.
It was like starting all over.
Crotch.
Yeah.
So I moved down to the Jersey Shore for the winter and then I sublet an apartment backtowards New York City so I could be closer to the kids.
That's ultimately where I wanted to be.
(21:44):
And um my sublet was coming to an end and I was looking everywhere high and low for anapartment.
um And I finally found one.
um It was a very exciting time in my life because I was able to get a three bedroom boundstone for me and my children.
(22:11):
And it was so exciting because right at the same time, I was getting custody of them back.
It was no longer supervised visits.
So like it overlapped.
how much time has this been then since you got out of rehab?
That was probably August.
almost a full year.
And having an apartment in my name with nobody else on the lease, like, because...
(22:39):
Like I said, I met my husband or my boyfriend at the time when I was 21.
I never had a chance to be on my own.
um I had to learn how to get a car in my name.
(23:00):
I had to learn how to get a car insurance.
All these things that-
He did all that?
He did all that stuff.
And, you know, getting an apartment was like...
freedom for me and being able to decorate my son and daughter's bedrooms.
(23:20):
It still is my little sanctuary and our safe place.
um I feel very safe there and I was able to heal there and find hobbies again and thingsthat I enjoy.
I uh worked with an addiction therapist and
(23:43):
addiction psychiatrists and joined domestic violence support groups.
um just to have my feelings validated and heard because I think throughout this wholeprocess, I lost my voice and I lost myself and I lost my identity.
(24:06):
I didn't even know who I was anymore.
And um
It took a lot of work.
Yeah, I mean you were being physically and emotionally abused, lost your kids, know,alcohol, all those things.
It's just, that is a lot to overcome.
And how do you not lose yourself during that?
(24:29):
You do have to rebuild new because like you said, you had to learn how to do it allwithout the substances.
Yeah, and that was probably the hardest part
How did you stay sober?
Because you know, there's so many, it's a roller coaster up and down and something happensand you really just want to drink or take a pill or whatever it might be when you're going
(24:51):
through it.
Because it sounds like you were going through it a lot and still are.
So how, what's been your key to staying sober?
At first, it was accountability because in sober living, we were drug tested.
Then at IOP, we were tested for alcohol twice a week.
(25:16):
um I think the biggest motivation for me was my kids.
I just couldn't continue on that.
And ah I knew the only way to get custody back was to stay sober.
(25:40):
the accountability and doing it for me and my kids and as I like healed and progressed, Irealized I'm doing it for me and nobody else.
Like, I love my kids to death, but I'm no good to them if I'm not sober.
about you right right well you know because it's so hard like you hear people all the timeyou know and outsiders looking in you want to judge and people are like why can't they
(26:09):
just do it for their kids like they have kids and everybody's so different in theiraddiction it sounds
easy to say.
Well, just do it for
thankfully you were able to look at it like that because there's so many people thatcan't.
It doesn't matter what it is, they still can't stop for whatever reason.
(26:30):
uh
When I was in it though, I couldn't.
It took that, you know.
intervention, so to speak, as a wake up call.
And at that point, I was just so numb and lost that I was agreeing to whatever anybodytold me.
(26:51):
You probably felt like there was no hope at that point anyway.
Yeah, I was just I think you know
Counting down the minutes till I could drink and then fall asleep and it was just avicious cycle.
I wasn't even living right
Were you so functioning at work?
(27:14):
Barely.
mean, I was keeping a job, but.
They knew something was up?
Yeah.
absolutely.
Okay.
um At that point, we had returned to the office one day a week and I think a managerpulled me in and was like, we're worried about you.
People were saying they were worried about me, but I didn't know how to fix the problem.
(27:40):
I was so far into my addiction that I couldn't see how to get out or see the light to getout.
um
I don't think anybody wants to admit, have a problem and I need help or I need to go torehab.
(28:01):
It's very rare that somebody does it on their own accord.
I needed my family to step in and push me.
Yeah, and a lot of people don't have family that will do that.
It's so sad, but reality, yeah, gosh, that is, even thinking about that, that there's somany people that have no family.
(28:28):
Everybody's given up on them already, too, because of their addiction, where, like yousaid, people were sick of my shit, you know?
And they do give up.
I think if my family hadn't stepped in, I probably would have dragged myself to death.
I don't think I would have been able to get myself help.
(28:54):
Do you think, did the kids notice something was wrong?
Because they're young.
They were scared to be around me.
ah They were, yeah, they definitely did.
(29:15):
I thought, well, I drank the day before they saw me, but I was still hungover.
I still reeked of alcohol.
My ex would comment, there's six magnums of wine in the trash can, and I didn't seeanything wrong with that.
I would wait until the liquor store opened at 10 o'clock and be the first one in line.
(29:37):
Really?
It was really bad.
Did you drink as a teenager or like the younger years?
Yes, I was very much a party girl.
My parents were very hands off.
um They would, my dad would be on business trips a lot.
(29:59):
My mom was not involved.
um
So I had lots and lots of parties.
We would drink on the weekends.
uh
drinking with you guys too at this point?
No.
My mom got sober when I was three.
So I grew up going to AA meetings.
(30:20):
I grew up in the room.
Because she got sober when I was three.
Your sister, how far apart are you guys?
um My middle sister is three years older than me and my oldest sister is five years olderthan me and the middle one is uh sober but we had a very rough journey as well.
(30:47):
ah
Do you think a lot does a lot of it stem from some of the generational traumas or didthings happen when you guys were younger?
I think for sure there was a lot of um fighting em between my parents.
m
(31:07):
This is even after mom was sober.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um.
My mom, I would say, was a dry drunk.
Her life became about AI.
So Christmases, there were 24-hour meetings and she wouldn't be home.
And she just...
(31:30):
She had my oldest sister when she was 21, so she was very young.
And I don't think she knew how to be a mother.
And so her life became about AA.
And we were, I would say, to raise ourselves.
(31:54):
So she was hyper focused on all of that.
Saving everybody else.
Okay, lots of Sponses
Yeah.
During this time, is she not fixing herself emotionally?
I think she was emotionally stunted at that point.
(32:14):
It's easier to try to fix other people than yourself.
Correct.
I think we all know that, right?
you know, her only priority was staying sober.
And I, you know, I remember her saying, you know, my sobriety is more important than mychildren.
And when you're a kid hearing that, yes, yes.
(32:39):
And you know, you internalize that.
And um
Did that make you feel rebellious, like as far as alcohol went, like when you got in yourteenage years?
Because she'd be saying stuff like that and you're like, okay.
So I will say, I always struggled with my weight and my confidence.
(33:04):
I was the popular fat girl.
When I was 18, I had gastric bypass.
And my mom had gastric bypass, and both my sisters had gastric bypass.
And so I do think, you know.
I was gonna say it, because girl you're thin now.
I've worked very, very hard on getting fit.
(33:27):
Fitness has become an important component to my mental health and emotional.
But in high school, I was 300 pounds, so I felt like I had to be the fun party girl andhave the parties to compensate and to be part of the popular clique.
(33:47):
I definitely binge-drinked.
You know, I can recall a New Year's Eve party when I was in high school and I drank anentire bottle of vodka and like blacked out.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
There were a lot of binge drinking episodes and even in college, I think the whole time Iwas probably a functioning alcoholic.
(34:17):
um Once I started drinking, there was no turning it off.
I was so responsible because I wanted to prove everybody wrong.
My oldest sister suffered with substance abuse issues.
She ran away when she was 13 in and out of rehabs.
(34:41):
And at that point, I was eight.
And I remember my mom telling me, well, just wait till you're her age.
You're going to be an addict too.
And I wanted so badly to prove everybody wrong.
Right.
That I.
Like I.
do exactly what you're doing and not be an addict.
Correct.
I can go to college and I can graduate in four years and I'm going to prove everybodywrong and I'm going to get married and have kids and buy a house and have that fairy tale
(35:10):
and the white picket fence.
I think so badly, I wanted the world to think that I was okay and give off this sense of Ihave it all together.
Like he wanted to be seen.
Yeah.
no flaws because so much of my identity was tied to, well, nobody will love you if you'renothing or my confidence was nothing.
(35:47):
I think
But did you carry, I'm picturing you carrying yourself though with a lot of confidence.
oh
yes, dancing on bars in New York City.
Fake it till you make it.
Nobody.
knew what you were.
(36:08):
Did he, when you guys first were together, was he like love bombing you?
Oh, yes.
We met and then the following weekend, I think his dad invited me to the Hamptons and Ifelt like it was a whirlwind.
I was like, I'm getting invited to the Hamptons.
(36:28):
It was just so exciting to me.
He definitely figured out my insecurities and my weaknesses.
he still uses them against me.
When I dropped the kids off on Sunday, he told me that I'm now too thin and I'm too gauntand this is horrible.
(36:55):
But he said in front of the kids, he was like, do you have AIDS?
Implying that I was too thin.
I swear.
He actually said, do you have the monster?
Which I'm not sure if everybody knows, but
It's word for AIDS.
my daughter whose sex goes, mommy's a monster.
(37:20):
So even now, like...
too thin or I'm too fat like
Well, it really doesn't matter what his ass says anyway.
but he knows I'm so insecure and I crave everybody's approval that it eats at me.
You gotta just get to the point where it doesn't.
Especially coming from him.
(37:43):
Gosh, so he's probably filling the kids with all kinds of nonsense too.
If he's saying something like that in front of them, I can only imagine the things that hesays when he has them or questioning them.
Do they ever tell you anything?
Like daddy's asking me this.
Daddy wants to know what we did all weekend and all the details because...
(38:06):
Narcissists, they're real good at that stuff.
Yeah, and it's funny because I don't know if funny is the right word to use, but he had ababy with somebody shortly after I left him.
so my kids now have a half sibling who's two and a half.
And his partner actually left for the same reasons I left.
(38:32):
he
has a history of it.
created a cycle.
he does because there's nothing wrong with him.
It's everyone.
Yes, of course.
And all of his flying monkeys.
Yes.
So unfortunately, my kids have now had to see two times.
(38:56):
Yes.
And she uh fled in the middle of the night.
And it was very painful to my kids because first their mom left.
And now another mother figure with their baby sister left.
And it was very abrupt and sudden.
Yeah, because they don't understand who dad really is yet.
(39:17):
No, and part of me, you know, I spent 13 years trying to protect him and cover up theabuse and because I was afraid if people found out they would tell me to leave and I
wasn't ready to leave.
Right.
And I...
lost myself trying to save him.
drowned trying to save him.
(39:40):
And, you know, I, for me, the turning point was I couldn't let my daughter think thatthat's what love is.
And I couldn't let my son think that that's how you treat women or people that you careabout.
And so they've always been my
(40:01):
you know, motivation, they essentially saved me.
And I think it took hitting rock bottom to be able to rebuild my life.
And I'm so thankful that, you know, all of that happened.
you know,
(40:24):
So like, even when he does that, like he's asking you if you have the monster, like infront of the kid, how do you deal with that now?
Like...
So that just happened on Sunday and today's Tuesday.
I'm still processing it.
still dealing.
At first, I still mentally shut down.
I still disassociate.
(40:45):
And I responded to him and I said, well, how much do you think I should weigh?
And he goes, you need to gain 15 pounds.
You're gone.
But like,
But when you were heavier, what do call you fat?
I think he loved me 300 pounds because I was easier to control, easier to manipulate.
(41:12):
It was a reflection of how I felt about myself and the fact that I'm now working out andthat I'm happier without him.
I think that kills him.
That I was able to prove everybody wrong and-
He was waiting for you just to keep following.
(41:32):
And that's why he still offers me drinks in front of me.
crazy.
You've got to get that on video or recording sometime for the court because that's whathe's using against you.
But then...
oh
oh It's a vicious cycle.
Yeah.
(41:54):
And you know, for the past five years, all I've heard is that I'm a bad mom, that I'm anunfit mom, you know, a slew of things and it just plays over and over in your head.
Right.
But it's, you know, I'm now in, you know, domestic violence support groups because...
(42:17):
helping, you know.
tremendously to be validated and to be heard and to have people say, you're not crazy.
And to hear other stories too, to where you're like, okay, I'm not the only one.
Okay, this does happen to other people.
That has to help healing too.
(42:38):
for sure and everybody checks in on me when I have court and yeah, it's really, you know,I just, yeah.
Of people.
survivors.
Right.
Yeah.
Right?
Wow.
So even like, okay, with him saying something like that, how do you not want to just havea drink?
(43:01):
Or do you, but you have to like talk to yourself and- Because that's a deep thing for you,a deep-seated issue, you know, that he's just poking at.
He made two martinis in front of me and I wasn't even a martini drinker, but he goes tome, smell it.
(43:22):
I'm like, what's the point?
What is the point?
He still says to this day that I'm not fun because I'm sober.
You can't be fun if you're sober.
And I don't talk about sobriety with him.
(43:44):
but he took your kids away, did all the things he did to you because you were drinking.
But then...
He hates that I'm sober.
Well, because you're doing exactly opposite of what he made everyone believe you would do.
And he would love it if I was drinking.
(44:04):
a mess.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It would be great if I was a His narrative.
His story of that I'm a terrible person.
I'm a terrible mom.
Right.
Are you talking to somebody to get through that?
How much she's been in your head?
oh
yes, yes, yes.
(44:25):
So my therapist is amazing.
And, you know, I asked her about my diagnosis because I was just curious.
And she was like, when we started, it was addiction.
But now, you know, you have post-traumatic stress disorder.
(44:46):
And, you know, I wasn't even able to
process of grief around losing my marriage, losing my kids, losing my house, everythingthat I had worked so hard for, because it all became about my mental health, my addiction.
(45:09):
And so I wasn't even able to grieve.
that loss.
For five years, I've been fighting an uphill battle and it's exhausting mentally,physically, emotionally.
Of course it is.
Yeah, a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of emotion.
(45:29):
It's a never ending battle.
m
you're gonna feel like you're in the Twilight Zone, like don't know what to do withyourself.
Like, my God, I have this time and I feel free and God, you just need to be like done withthis guy.
ah Do you think he's dragging it out on purpose?
(45:51):
Well, he knows you.
He knows it's probably wearing you down.
Financial reasons and break me so that I agree to whatever he wants.
We are going to trial in July um because he wants uh residential custody of the kids.
(46:13):
And so it's also about finances.
I have to pay him child support right now, even though he's unemployed at the moment.
But I have to pay him child support because whoever has 50, or if you have 50-50.
you're in New Jersey, right?
They're tough with their child support.
(46:34):
I'm actually in New York, which I think is even tougher.
It's through the Supreme Court.
So it's a Supreme Court judge.
So I have to pay him $150 every week while I'm unemployed.
So it's about
get them every weekend?
Correct.
(46:55):
So he gets money, he gets paid, and he gets free weekends.
Yes, and he turns around and gives his girlfriend child support.
It's a crazy cycle, and we are now in a custody battle.
(47:19):
I couldn't.
them full time now?
so you're fighting for that and you've been sober
For three years, almost three years.
I almost feel like when you see him and he taunts you like that, he's doing it on purpose.
Just so he can have some proof to prove that you're not a fit mom.
(47:44):
I think so, yeah.
calculated.
Very, very.
I know, they're the scary ones.
I would agree with that.
And the worst thing is I didn't see it for 13 years.
And then when it hits you, it hits you like a ton of bricks.
(48:04):
You're like, how did I not see this?
And then you're angry with yourself.
So on top of trying to stay sober and be the best mom I can be, I'm also dealing with allthis legal stuff and the grief around that.
um
me did I want to drink the first year out of rehab, it was a daily fight.
(48:35):
And they tell you don't drive by liquor stores, avoid driving by triggers.
And the temptation was so high because um
You know, my triggers are boredom, loneliness, being isolated.
(48:55):
was coping.
the things you were living.
Yes.
So, you know, once I figure out ways to alleviate those like new hobbies and distractions,I would say after a year and I got custody of my kids back,
(49:18):
The idea of drinking or wanting to drink just went away.
Maybe it helped too, just knowing every weekend you were gonna have your kids.
You had something to look forward to.
know, like idle time and loneliness and all that.
I mean, you can really get in your head, especially if you're going through legal shit andyou have nothing to look forward to that first year.
(49:43):
You know, you don't have the kids back yet.
All those things.
I was only allowed to see them for two hours.
Yeah, like two hours is nothing
Did you feel a big shift once you knew you were gonna get him every weekend?
Could you like, like...
I think at first it was such a shock because it happened out of the blue suddenly,abruptly.
(50:06):
One week it was supervised visits, and then the next weekend I was taking them to the zoo.
um So it went from very, very structured to I think all of us who are a little bit inshock, we're not in a lawyer's office anymore.
Right.
did he agree to that or the judge just ordered it?
(50:27):
he agreed to that every weekend.
but I think that's when things were falling apart with his girlfriend.
Oh, yes.
I loved you.
She did reach out to me when I was getting custody of the kids back.
(50:48):
She- um
asked me my side of the story.
And that's when she told me she left for the same reasons.
And he actually told her that I was the abusive one.
And course, know, yeah, like she didn't know what to believe.
(51:09):
Yeah.
And so, you know, I feel bad that she's going through, you know, what I went through.
And I think it's a shame that, you know, he gets away with it.
Yeah, maybe she can be an ally for you though, like in the court for you to get custody.
(51:30):
She offered to write a letter of support.
I think we'll just see what happens in July.
I'm not giving up.
on the judge too, like if they're looking at it like, that's just another woman scorned.
You're gonna actually take into account what she went through too, and it was similar toyours.
(51:50):
You just never know with the court.
Yeah, you never know.
I mean, I think they just want us to settle so bad.
They want us to figure it out on our own.
But I don't think anybody realizes how difficult it is divorcing a narcissist.
It's probably the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
(52:11):
need a narcissist rehabs like surviving one.
Yeah.
It's such a mind non stop.
All those years like how do you even go back to normal?
Like it's it's really hard.
I have to take a day and decompress after seeing him to digest what was said to me.
(52:41):
And I'm like, did this really just happen?
I remember a couple of months ago, he called me and I don't know if I'm allowed to say itin a perfect way.
So he called me.
a malignant cunt, a schizophrenic, a jerk off all in one sentence.
And I like gasped and I was like, can you repeat what you just said?
(53:04):
And he goes, did I stutter?
And I like, literally had to like put it in my notes on my phone because I couldn'tbelieve what was being said to me.
And the cr-
know the rules in New York with recording, but I would be hitting record on my phone everysingle time you talk to this guy.
(53:27):
The problem is, don't they get a notification?
No.
no.
m
I'll just show you.
Yeah, because I do.
But when I hit record, it's like your call is now being recorded.
don't think so.
I don't know.
That'd be something for your attorneys too to find out is it admissible in New Yorkbecause sometimes you have to say, I'm recording the conversation.
(53:53):
Yeah, but I know two party can yeah, I hate jargon.
Yeah
should just be like, thank you.
Thank you.
you for that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But if I called him a dick, you know,
so you don't say anything back really.
(54:13):
I wish I had that ability.
I lack that.
People are like, oh, you need to stand up for yourself.
You need to find your voice.
You need to do this and do that.
And what people don't realize is that I'm trying to undo 13 years of abuse that wasingrained in me.
(54:36):
And it doesn't happen overnight.
He doesn't care.
He's so focused on himself.
And his ego.
Yeah.
10 years ago, nobody talked about narcissistic abuse.
It wasn't relevant.
(54:57):
now it's out there everywhere.
There's lawyers who specialize in it.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I could see.
They're seriously abusive.
They're very abusive and you know, he enabled my drinking, you know.
(55:22):
Yeah.
He wanted to just always stay above you.
But at least you see that now.
Yeah.
know?
Even his behavior, these dumb behaviors that he keeps doing all the time, he's just tryingto bait you.
and sometimes at work.
Yeah, I mean I could see that that that would be hard to deal with I would do you have totalk to him?
(55:44):
You should make him have to communicate through the
The Parrot app, the Wizard app.
um
It's all about optics and the divorce and custody proceedings.
So it looks like you're not like you're being difficult and you're not trying to co-parentand doing what's in the kids best interest.
(56:05):
like.
definitely not in the kid's best interest for him to be a constant manipulator and justnasty narcissist to the mom that he even has that opportunity.
Sounds like he takes every opportunity he can.
Oh, 100%.
And he blew up in court and the judge actually yelled at him.
did?
Yeah, I was shaking.
(56:26):
was shaking.
He stood up and she was like, you do not address me, you sit down.
And if you have anything to say, you say it to your lawyer.
Good.
Oh, was scary.
So he filed a motion for child support against me and she goes to him, you know.
(56:47):
you make $168,000 a year, you owe her spousal support and cause him to blow up.
Good.
you're I can breathe, but yeah.
No, was shaking.
I was shaking.
was like, what just happened?
(57:07):
Yeah, it was a trauma response.
How are his attorneys?
Are they fair?
they?
complete shitheads.
uh
Yours.
He's great.
Yeah.
OK.
Yeah, I'm lucky.
OK.
I actually had to get a new lawyer because it's all in.
I've spent $150,000.
(57:27):
I'm sure.
legal fees.
And we haven't gone to trial yet.
It's just it's such a waste of time.
And the courts usually do want, like you've said, they want you to settle it amongstyourselves, through mediation or something, but he sounds like he's just really difficult,
so you probably can't.
(57:48):
The fact that he let you have the kids back every weekend, I feel like it's probably justbecause he didn't want to have to take care of them on the weekends.
So he's a he is a fireman and he has to work 24s.
So when they're with him during the week, they're with their grandparents.
They're not even with him.
(58:10):
It's just about being able to say, I got custody of the kids.
And because if I get custody, then
It pokes holes in his story of me being a bad mom.
Mm-hmm.
So sad you you would think that for the kids sake you'd be like proud of you, but that'snever gonna happen
(58:37):
No, no, because he thinks fun Danielle's gone, you know?
Yeah, God forbid you get sober.
I wanted to tell him, do you remember when you couldn't even trust me to have our kids?
(58:58):
Like, is that what you want to go back to?
Because if I start drinking, that's inevitably what's going to happen.
course he's okay with it, because it just makes him right.
And that's scary that anybody would want that for the mother of their children.
Right.
(59:18):
Is the other girl, did she experience pretty much the same?
It never got physical, but it was verbal.
she actually, you know, God bless her.
was six, well, less than a year, but you know, um she called his mom and said, your son isabusive.
(59:39):
And trust me, she did not like that.
He's a mama's boy.
Oh, can do no wrong.
You know, they hate me because I ruined their perfect family image.
Like everybody knew about the abuse, but everybody turned a blind eye to it.
(01:00:02):
And like what I don't understand is if I was in such a bad place and I was suffering sogreatly, why didn't anybody
Try to help me.
Nope.
Never.
Well, and this is just how he's gonna be because he moved on real quick and she's gone nowtoo.
(01:00:23):
Yeah, it's like who's next.
Yeah, the next victim.
Right?
will be one, unfortunately.
It's just sad that the kids have to be around that.
It is.
I feel for my kids.
But in therapy and in group, I've learned that I'm able to give them a safe environment.
(01:00:46):
so they get two days with me, Saturday and Sunday.
I get them on Fridays off the bus and bring them back on Sundays.
They get two days of undivided attention.
And they just get to have fun.
And even when they're with him, they're in school.
putting them to bed, it's a couple of hours, but I get to be the fun mom and do all those.
(01:01:11):
And have a safe, loving, supportive environment.
They are so attached to me, so clingy, and I love that.
I love that I can be their safe place.
(01:01:31):
Yeah.
Have you started dating?
Okay, how long did it take you?
I definitely was on the apps.
Oh, yeah.
I don't miss those.
Big old chit-chat.
Yeah.
(01:01:51):
Or dumpster fire.
I was on those a couple months after I left him because I just was so bored and lonely.
Right.
Didn't want to be alone.
Yeah.
Isolation was like I was crawling out of my skin.
um But I started dating somebody in September, so it's been about 10 months now.
(01:02:15):
Okay.
And we're very happy.
You're like, wow, I didn't know it could be like that.
That's wonderful.
I was afraid of commitment.
I was like, I'm fine being alone.
I am fine never being in a relationship again.
(01:02:36):
And then I met him and all my guards came down.
And it was the first time I knew what a safe love felt like.
And that was very healing because
I hated being touched.
I hated being hugged.
Like it felt like I was suffocating.
(01:02:58):
Because, you know, the person I thought who loved me would hurt me physically oremotionally.
And so then to have somebody who was able to hold me and like protect me and I'm able tolike be in my feminine
(01:03:20):
Era and energy now because he is kind and he's caring and he's safe and supportive andwants what's best for me.
my friend.
My best friend was like, you're used to guys who want to get you drunk or want to get youhigh.
(01:03:44):
He wants you.
eating while sleeping, working out, like he wants you to be the best version of yourself.
Oh, to be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Did you fight the relationship in the beginning?
Like, there's no way that he's real or...
I was got a big hair.
I I was like I caught myself pushing him away, right?
(01:04:07):
um Because I was afraid to be vulnerable.
Yeah, I was afraid to let somebody in again because I was like no never happening He hasmet the kids one time the kids know about him and
I'm glad that my kids get to see me be happy and see me being treated how I deserve.
(01:04:36):
what they need to see so they grow up feeling the same.
Right.
I can't believe you're still in it.
I'm still in it, but I feel like I'm at the finish line.
I feel like it's like a metamorphosis.
I set my whole world on fire.
(01:04:56):
I watched it blow up in front of me and I walked away from everything.
Literally when I got thrown out of the house, I left everything behind.
Wow, so you started over a completely.
I just moved my clothes into storage and I left everything behind.
He actually saved tchotchkes and trinkets, my wedding present, and it was the most bizarrething.
(01:05:23):
He gave it to me.
I wanted to be like, I left it for a reason.
Right.
he just wanted you to have memories of him.
ah
I'm a firm believer that things hold energy.
And so I don't want our wedding dishes.
I don't want your
that shit.
(01:05:44):
Do something.
Like, I want to smash it.
I don't know.
Like, no, I don't want any memories.
Oh, yeah.
That would be great.
Yeah.
They actually have like break rooms in New York City.
Have you been?
Good.
I think I took a bat to a TV.
(01:06:04):
Did you?
Yeah.
m
Yeah, I've seen those.
It looks pretty awesome.
I've seen that and then the axe throwing.
Yes, yes, that seems a little dangerous to me.
I feel like I might cut a hand off.
Yeah, and you're like watching other people like they're like coming back like they'relike, shit is it gonna, are they gonna drop it or what?
(01:06:26):
or like caught my face.
Yeah, for sure.
It seems like a little bit of dangerous date night, but all right.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, he has two teenagers.
oh So we're taking slow and slow.
Yeah, like it is very much um I do my thing like on the weekends with my kids.
(01:06:53):
We get together a few times a week.
But we are going slowly.
I feel like I need to survive this divorce, get through this divorce, and then start a newchapter.
For sure.
And evaluate where to
then you'll have the space emotionally to do that, you know?
For sure.
(01:07:16):
Because he just still keeps coming for you.
yeah.
And I don't know what's next.
we had court June 9.
So two weeks ago and it's you know, it's, it's like monthly, we had one in April, we hadone in May, we had one in June.
Trial those jewels.
22nd.
Yeah, right around the corner.
So are they
(01:07:36):
A lot of times they push to try to settle something before the trial.
So fingers crossed, right?
Yeah, 100%.
I'm just waiting.
Just waiting for my lawyer to email me and tell me what's next.
Well, I'm glad that you came on and shared this because you are very successful.
You've been through a lot.
(01:07:56):
You've survived narcissistic abuse.
You you do have generational traumas and hopefully like the therapist, can dig into thatstuff too.
But a lot of times it takes like mom letting you know what the other traumas are and thenyou know, to grandma or whoever.
But it's definitely a real thing.
(01:08:18):
Yeah, like even right now, I am not talking to my mom um because she has a lot ofresentment towards me for marrying somebody who is abusive.
And I actually even had to say to her recently, know, five years.
(01:08:40):
Five years.
I was with him for 13 years.
I've spent the last four and a half years.
fight.
to get out of it.
And she told me, just go back to him.
You two deserve each other.
There's a little bit of that general trap she's carrying.
(01:09:01):
I'm breaking or trying to break.
Yeah, for sure.
don't I what I want for my daughter is that if she's ever in a similar situation.
she can walk away or come to me and we can figure it out together.
(01:09:23):
um I don't want her to ever go through what I went through, whether it be the abuse or thealcohol.
I don't want my kids to ever think they can't come to me because I
(01:09:45):
They, they definitely saved me.
And if, know, I want to be there to be their biggest supporter and lift them up and knowthat we can get through anything together.
That's what family does.
Yeah Gosh, I hope your mom steps back someday and just thinks Wow, like she's not thinkingthat she's telling you should go back to the disaster of a life you're you know that it
(01:10:15):
was before with him and To see how far you've come and tell you that you should go back tohim She's not she's not processing right or something or she's got her own dealing with
because you know as a parent
You should never wish that.
I think you know people say things like that.
(01:10:37):
Yeah, uh
Would it have been easier probably and not as much money and all the other things?
Sure, but look what you were dealing with and continue to deal with.
How would she ever want you to go back to that?
I mean, everybody said that if we had stayed together, he would have killed me, or I wouldhave killed him, or we would have killed each other.
(01:10:59):
At our worst, I contemplated suicide, because it just seemed easier than dealing with theabuse.
So I know that if I stayed in that marriage or if I had stayed drinking, I wouldn't behere today.
That I know in my core.
I know for a fact.
(01:11:20):
that path I was on, I was knocking on death's door.
And you're so strong, think you're stronger than you think you are too because that, todeal with what you were emotionally and then having the kids rip from you, getting sober,
that's a lot.
That's a lot.
(01:11:40):
Like I hope you're proud of yourself.
I am.
I definitely think I am a survivor.
And I never want to be a victim.
But I am so grateful for the life I have now.
And I wouldn't have this life if I wasn't sober.
And that's the gift that sobriety gives you.
(01:12:02):
So like, what do you think would be something that you would tell other people that couldbe going through what you've been through or in the same situations with a narcissist,
alcoholism, whatever it might be, what kind of advice do you think that you would givethem so they don't give up, so they know there's hope?
was going to say, don't ever give up.
(01:12:27):
Lean on a support system.
If it's a friend or a hotline or a therapist, there are people out there that care aboutyou.
And I think when you're in such despair, you give up.
You give up hope.
You give up your dreams, your aspirations.
(01:12:48):
And just know that there are
are people out there that want to help you and will help you and you will get over this.
It's not gonna be easy.
eh But make that phone call.
Take the first step.
Say, I have a problem.
(01:13:10):
I need help.
There are so many resources out there.
There's so many.
But you know, when you're
in the thick of it.
You don't know how to ask for help.
drowning.
You need a life vest.
You need a lifesaver.
But admitting you need help is the first step.
(01:13:33):
And you can have a life beyond your wildest dreams.
It's possible.
Just work.
Yeah.
But it's so worth it.
It is so worth
I would never ever go back.
Thank you.
Thank you for.
And girl, I'm gonna be praying for you for July 22nd.
(01:13:56):
Maybe it'll happen sooner and it'll just be over.
Maybe I have an email.
You never know, right?
That would be amazing.
That would be incredible.
Alright, well I guess we'll wrap it up unless you have anything else you want to say.
It was awesome.
Yes, we're grateful.
uh
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.