July 23, 2024 • 39 mins
Hey there! We're thrilled you're joining us for this episode; we're excited to dive into something super important: marketing! We know it can be a bit of a headache, but stick with us, and we'll share some tips that have worked wonders for us.
To kick things off, we're offering our first listeners an exclusive 25% off any item in our shop through the end of July. Just head over to birthbecomesyou.com, click on the shop, and use promo code PODCAST25 at checkout. We've got toolkits, presets, mentoring, and more to help you out!
In this episode, we're breaking down two marketing strategies that could be working for you and two that might not be. From building strong relationships with midwives and doulas to the importance of having a multi-dimensional marketing plan, we've got you covered. And yes, we even tackle the controversial topic of listing pricing on your website!
If you're struggling to book as many clients as you'd like, or if you're just looking to refine your marketing strategy, this episode is for you. So grab a cup of coffee, get comfy, and let's chat about how you can thrive in the ever-changing world of birth photography.
And don't forget, our Email and Marketing Toolkit is on sale this month! Use coupon code MARKETING for $30 off. It's packed with 35 pages of templates to help you book more clients and overcome common objections. Check it out on our website under the shop section.
Thanks for being here, and happy marketing!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Okay, Jen, we're trying again for the third time. We've had a few restarts on
this podcast because I think we're both tired. We've had a lot of births this week.
And Jen and I have a tendency sometimes to, yeah, just thinking like 12 year olds. Yes, exactly.
But we're going to do it this time. We are really glad that you're here.
(00:22):
It's been a busy week, as I said. I had two births yesterday.
One, I barely made it. It was like 15 minutes before baby arrived,
or I guess before I got there and then baby was born 15 minutes later.
And then I had another birth where I thought, you know, it was a similar situation,
like water broke, you know, mold tip.
And I got there and it was like eight hours before baby was born.
(00:45):
So two very different births, but I was able to be at both.
And yeah, I'm just kind of recovering today. How are you, Jen?
I'm good. I had a similar birth where the client wasn't really sure if she was
in labor and just kind of texted me a heads up.
And then a few minutes later texted that her water broke and things were intense immediately.
Immediately so most of my clients are about an hour
(01:06):
away so I immediately left and made it with about
30 minutes before the baby so you know
it really gets the adrenaline pumping when it's yes yeah I was I called Jen
on my way to my first birth because it was an hour plus drive and I don't normally
do that anymore and so March was able to talk with me I guess it was on the
(01:26):
way home she talked to me the whole way home because I was really tired and
I was like I cannot believe you do this on the regular,
that hour long commute is really challenging.
It's challenging to time it right. And then it's challenging to drive it when
it's the middle of the night or early morning.
So thanks for staying on the phone with me, making sure I get home safe.
(01:48):
But yeah, we are, we're super excited that you're here. We're going to be talking
about marketing, which we know is an important topic, but can be painful for lots of us.
So we'll be discussing saying this, I think many times on this podcast,
this is just kind of, you know, our first episode.
So if you have questions about marketing, please let us know.
And we're going to go ahead and jump in.
(02:55):
And to thank our first listeners, we are offering an exclusive promotion of
25% off any item in the shop through the end of July.
To redeem it, you can go to birthbecomesyou.com and click on the shop in our
menu and use promo code PODCAST25 at checkout.
(03:20):
That's promo code PODCAST25 when you check out.
We have tons of items in the shop that include toolkits and contracts for birth
photographers, toolkits for new birth photographers to teach you how to photograph
your own birth and step into the birth space for the very first time.
(03:40):
We also have presets. We have mentoring.
We have a whole host of things. So head on over to our shop at birthbecomesyou.com
and use code PODCAST25 at checkout.
Thank you so much. Okay, so today we are going to talk about two things that
(04:01):
might be working for you and two things that might not be working for you in terms of marketing.
We feel so lucky because we get to talk to birth photographers all over the
country and the world on a regular basis.
And we kind of get to hear like, what's going well? What's not going well?
(04:21):
What are you struggling with? and of course then
we have our own businesses you know I think that's one of the
things that I love about birth becomes you and
I love about the work that Jen and I do is that we are
still like very busy practicing birth photographers like we are in the trenches
right now this isn't stuff that we've done you know five years ago or ten years
(04:42):
ago like we are in it with you and we are trying to figure out this rapidly
changing marketing world with you right now because it
changes all the time and things that worked like five years ago don't work right now.
And I think that's definitely, I don't know about you, Jen, but it's like,
I wish there was just a magical formula that you could just be like, okay, this is the key.
(05:05):
And if you follow these steps, it will work.
But I think we live in a time period where there's so much change,
especially in technology that there's rapid disruptions of past formulas for
marketing and success. And so you have to kind of be on your toes.
So I think we should probably start with two things that might be working for you.
(05:28):
And the thing that I love about number one is that this is actually,
this is like the bread and butter.
I feel like a lot has changed, but I think this has stayed the same for a really
long time and will continue to stay the same for many years to come.
And that's relationships.
Like relationships are the key to this business and the key to booking clients.
(05:54):
Now, like when I say relationships, I'm thinking like midwives,
I'm thinking, who else? Like fellow.
Julas. Julas, yeah. Julas. Unity.
Even other photographers that are in the community.
Because birth photographers aren't just working in birth, they're also photographers.
So, you know, you should be in all of the birth communities that you can find
(06:18):
locally, but you should also be in all of the photography communities as well.
Because you really are balancing both worlds.
Absolutely. Yeah, we have this really unique position in that we understand
what it's like to photograph an event, you know, but then we're also photographing
this kind of wild, unpredictable story, which is birth, right?
(06:40):
And so we're bringing in, we're kind of straddling both worlds.
And, you know, I always tell people, like when they ask personally,
like what's the most important relationships that you foster?
For me personally, it's home birth midwives.
Honestly, that's where I get the best referrals because when someone hires a
home birth midwife, there's a really strong relationship that is either developing
(07:04):
or has already developed.
They trust this person with their life, with their baby's life.
Any recommendation they give, I think, is really taken pretty seriously.
And so I have several home birth midwives in this area that have been recommending
me to clients for years and years.
And, you know, when I get an inquiry in my email inbox and it says so-and-so
(07:28):
referred you or so-and-so referred you, I'm like, okay, like,
I know that this is probably going to be a client that books me.
And so it's really important and a lot
of people you know struggle with like well how do i develop those
relationships right i mean especially if you're brand new it
can feel really difficult to step in and be
like you know maybe you've tried and you haven't gotten a response so what would
(07:51):
you suggest people do like do you have any thoughts jen like if someone's like
new and they're like i don't know how to become friends with these people like
what would you suggest doing i think the most important thing is to just see
what's going on in your local community,
and see what you can do within that community in person.
There's always something happening. At least here, there's always something.
(08:13):
There's some sort of training. There's some sort of meetup.
And it's great to just like go there with the only intention being.
Getting to know the local community and the peers that you're going to be working
with in the community without anything else other than just like getting to know them.
Don't necessarily take business cards. Don't say, hey, will you refer me?
(08:36):
Just meet these people and talk to them and become friends with them.
I really think that's the most important thing.
Yeah, I think that's so true. And I think it's it's like multifaceted.
You know, it's like if you meet these people at an event or if you're then like
follow them on Instagram and just send them a nice message and be like,
Hey, it was really nice to meet you. I really appreciate it talking to you.
(08:57):
And then start like commenting on their posts, like following what they're sharing,
being engaged in the content that they are wanting to put out into the world.
You'd be surprised at how like that does make a difference. You know,
it's going to set you apart.
It's a lot different than getting an email in your inbox saying,
Hey, like, can we meet for lunch?
(09:18):
For a busy midwife that can feel like one more to-do task, you know,
that you may not have the capacity for right now.
But if you start engaging and you start connecting in multiple ways,
I think a true friendship usually starts to form.
So be kind, be persistent.
Think about, you know, small things that you can do. You know,
(09:39):
maybe it's like, can you bring a coffee?
You know, can you, if they have an office, like, can you bring some coffee and donuts over?
We just had a neighbor bring us like a box of donuts. And I was like, what?
Like, I was just like a box of donuts, but it was such a kind gesture that like,
I'm like, you know, I feel like so much warmth in my heart, you know, and so I...
(10:01):
Again, like it's as simple as like get a box of donuts and just bring it to
their office or, you know, smoothies or like something like, I don't know, coffee,
whatever your whatever your midwife people like bring, bring some to them,
you know, always, always coffee. Yeah, always coffee.
One of the mid or one of the doulas here and actually one of our friends in
Colorado has done this as well, but she will always take like cookies and goodies
(10:26):
for whatever the like national day is.
So if it's like National Doula Week, she'll like give all of the doulas in the
community like something.
If it's National Midwifery Week, she'll do that.
And she just does that from like the goodness of her heart. She has a really big network anyway.
But if you're newer, that's a great way to like meet people in person.
(10:50):
You have something to give to them like they're going to remember you because you gave them a gift.
Absolutely. I love that. I love that. Yeah. And just meeting other birth photographers, too.
I mean, I know that I cannot take every inquiry that I get because some months
I'm full or some leads are too far away.
So just meeting other birth photographers and networking with them is really helpful, too.
(11:14):
That's so true. I mean, I was at the birth yesterday and I had two inquiries
come in for December. I'm not taking December clients.
And so those are people that, you know, want to hire. And, you know,
I thankfully I have a lot of great relationships with, you know,
birth photographers, newer birth photographers, established birth photographers.
And so I have a list of referrals. So I think that's a really good point, Jen.
(11:35):
Definitely connect with the people that are doing the work and the community.
You need a community to do this work well.
Yes. And I also think it's just fair to like say, you know, we want to address
the local photography community too.
And, you know, being active in maybe like a local Facebook group or even a local
photography get-together.
(11:57):
In Denver, we had the local Betty's group where people, we would get together
like, I don't know, I think it was like a couple times a year.
And then here there are local Detroit photography groups that get together.
So even just like having a presence in that space as well, because these are
people who are photographing weddings and photographing portraits and photographing pregnancy sessions.
(12:19):
And they may not want to photograph births and birth photography is growing.
So it's nice for them to have somebody to refer to.
Absolutely. And, you know, I think about like the referrals that I get from other photographers.
And I will say this, like you want to, you want to become friends with the higher
end photographers, the photographers that have specialized.
(12:41):
You don't necessarily want to become, I mean, become friends with whoever you
want to become friends with, of course, but in terms of like strategic marketing.
Connections with other photographers that have really niched down and have really
refined who they are and who they serve.
Those are going to be the people that give you really good referrals because
they know like, Hey, I'm the premier wedding photographer.
(13:04):
I birth is cool, but I, that is not my focus. That is not my strength.
And so they will happily pass that off versus someone who was like,
I do seniors. I do kids. I do babies. I do weddings.
I do everything under the sun, those folks are likely not going to refer you
to someone who reaches out about birth photography.
They will do someone's birth, you know, probably for like an insanely low amount
(13:27):
of money, but find the people that are really good,
the really good newborn photographers, like the best of the best,
because again, their business is so established that they're not going to be
able to deal with or yeah,
take a birth. We all know how births are.
They're not going to be be able to cancel on their newborn clients because that's their prime focus.
So I think that's a really great point.
(13:49):
The other thing that I think I see work for people that are doing well is that
they have a multi-dimensional marketing plan.
So that would be number two, like make sure that you have a really thought out plan.
Marketing is not just like, I'm going to try this and I'm going to do this.
Like it really is about sitting down and thinking about your strategy and the
(14:12):
areas where where you feel like you are naturally gifted at and are doing well,
and then the areas that you're weaker in.
So when I think about marketing, I think about a few things.
I think about social media, obviously. We all have a love-hate relationship.
So how active are you on social media?
How large are your followings? How engaged are people in your accounts?
(14:35):
So that's one component. And that includes Instagram, and that also includes TikTok.
And you might say, I'm really good on Instagram, but TikTok, like I don't even know.
You want to think about that, like write it down. If you're not doing anything
on TikTok, then circle that.
And that should be something you should start thinking about.
And I'm giving this advice to myself because I have a TikTok account that I've
(14:57):
like started and abandoned and started.
So it's okay if you don't know how to do it, but you do need to be thinking about it.
It's part of a full marketing plan. in. So social media.
And then you also want to think about your website. Are you getting traffic to your website?
Have you looked at the traffic to your website? Is it going up?
(15:18):
Is it going down? How is your SEO?
Is your site optimized? Is it optimized for speed?
All of those things you want to think about in terms of how is your website
working for you or is it working against you?
And then you also want to think about, I think, Facebook groups and kind of
that, what would you call that almost? like that community, online community spaces. Yeah. Yeah.
(15:43):
Are you, are you active? Like, do people know your name? You know,
I, there's local groups. We have several in Denver.
I think every community has several.
How active are you? Or do you just completely avoid it altogether?
What else would you say? Of course, there's like print marketing,
which I think again, has become less popular, except I would say for like things
(16:04):
like canvases, like you can bring canvases to providers' offices.
You can have like cards, like rack cards. They can, you know,
I know certain OB offices, certain midwife offices have like tables full of
like resources for people.
So I think it definitely still has a place. And look, like it's okay if you
like are writing down a list of all these different areas and you're like,
(16:26):
well, really good at Instagram, but everything else has kind of gone to the back burner.
That's normal. And I think what you need to do is figure out like,
okay, what areas can I improve myself that I'm like, okay, I just need to blog
more. I just need to be more consistent. I can do that.
And what areas are you like, are you like, I don't,
I don't know how to do this. I don't want to learn how to do this.
(16:48):
Maybe I should outsource this to somebody else. Is that SEO?
Is that TikTok? There are plenty of people that offer these services.
So if you're not able to do it yourself and you are not booking as many people
as you want to book, then it would
be worth figuring out if you can find somebody that can help you do it.
(17:08):
Because the people that are successful, they're hitting multiple areas.
Is. They're not just doing one thing. Exactly.
And I would also add email marketing as well. If you don't have an email list, get one, start one.
Your website host probably has one built in. If you have Squarespace or WordPress,
I believe WordPress has one built in now.
(17:31):
And if not, there's MailChimp and MailerLite and multiple mailing options.
So just starting an email
list and sending out an email and putting people on it that have accepted marketing
from you before and put something on your website so that you can give away
(17:51):
something like a guide or top three locations for your family session and have people give an email,
they get something from you and then you've collected that email and you're
adding that to your list.
And just sending out something once a month, even if you can do it once a quarter, That's my goal.
Like four or five times a year, if I can send out an email, I feel pretty good
(18:15):
about it. And they always have people respond to those emails.
And I always book clients from that.
Always, always. And my email list isn't that big. I have like a thousand people.
Maybe. I'm sure Monet has way more. And I still am booking from that list. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I think what's, what's cool about that is that whenever I send
(18:35):
an email out, you know, it's often like my old clients that are reading those emails.
And so I'll usually hear from them. It's a way for me to connect with them,
which of course is great.
Sometimes they're pregnant and that's great. Cause then they're like,
oh my gosh, yeah, I need to book you.
Right. But I think what's important is that it's like putting you at the forefront
of their mind, because maybe they're not going to have more babies,
but maybe they get that email
(18:57):
and then they're going out to lunch with a friend and they're like,
oh my gosh, like I just got an email from my old birth photographer.
Have you thought about doing this? Like it's really, it's, it's powerful.
And a lot of marketing experts will say that it's one of the most important
things that you can do is to build a marketing list and to use it well.
So I think that's a really great, great point, Jen.
(19:19):
And I want to add, like just throwing this out there, Pinterest has actually
been working okay for me.
I got my first Pinterest inquiry like just maybe a month ago.
And all I have done on Pinterest is pin a couple blog posts.
That's it. And they're just out there in the world on Pinterest.
And eventually people see them and they look through your website.
(19:40):
And if they're local, they're clicking through. But a pin stays out there in
the world on Pinterest for a very long time where a social media post just kind
of goes on buy. So it's just something to consider.
I wouldn't say like if you go out and do Pinterest today, you're going to get
a ton of clients back. Everything is kind of a snowball effect.
You know, it's all a slow build. And if you do, you know, something over here
(20:01):
and you're doing it well, and then you're doing your email list and doing it
well and social media and Pinterest and making local connections,
like all of that is going to come together for you.
It does just take time and you have to like push through that initial phase of,
I got to do all of these things. Like, yes, you do have to do all of them.
Prioritize and just start because the sooner you start, the sooner it works for you. Absolutely.
(20:26):
Okay. So now we're going to talk about two things that may not be working to your advantage.
And again, this is based on conversations we've had with lots of birth photographers.
Around the country and the world.
And again, I think we probably should have said this at the beginning of the
conversation is that marketing is tricky and what works really well in one community
(20:49):
might not work in another community.
So if you are like, look, like I'm doing great and I'm doing things differently,
then that's wonderful, like totally okay.
But if you're struggling to book and you're not booking as many people as you
want, then I think the best thing you can be is open to new ideas and new suggestions.
And so maybe some of this has resonated with you and you're willing to try something different.
(21:14):
And so that's the point of this conversation is not to say that this is the
way you have to do things, but to just get the conversation and to get the thoughts going.
So the thing that I see people doing that I have often seen to not work out
super well is to list pricing on your website.
(21:35):
Now, again, this is- So controversial. Controversial. People have strong opinions about this. They do.
But I will say as someone who has probably photographed more births than most
anyone in the United States, I have never listed pricing on my website and I have attended 800,
(21:55):
900 births over the last 10 years.
That's what I do. And it's worked really well for me. And so if you have your
prices on your website and you're booking people and it's going great,
then keep on doing that. That's awesome.
Don't stop. But if you aren't booking people, Oh?
And you have or or if something has changed, like that's where I want to say,
(22:16):
like, what if you were booking before and you're not booking now?
Like you can't always do what you've always done and expect the same results
because your clients are different and technology is different and the world is different.
So you do have to be fluid and be willing to change things that you're doing.
Sometimes I try to get people on the phone. Sometimes I can talk to them more
(22:36):
in email like it is constantly fluctuating. And I think you have to be open
to that, just like Monet said.
Yes. So, you know, with pricing on the website, I think what happens is people
are often, you know, they've done a quick Google search. They found five birth photographers.
If everybody's pricing is on the website, they will often just kind of jump
(22:58):
from tab to tab and be like, okay, this one's most expensive.
I'm going to close this one. This one's least expensive.
I'm going to close this one. And they might find people that are right in the
middle and then compare those to each other.
Right. But again, it's all kind of coming in. You're making people compare based on price.
And I just don't with, with how personal birth is and how vulnerable it is.
(23:21):
I don't necessarily think that you want people making a decision based on pricing.
You want them to make a decision on your art, the work that you create and on
the connection they have or don't have with you as a photographer and as a birth worker,
I think that should be what is driving people to make the decision, not necessarily price.
(23:43):
And when you put price out there, just because of how humans are and especially
how capitalism works, we're often just like, that's what we start to focus on is like, okay, price.
And I hear people say, well, I would never reach out to somebody who doesn't
have pricing on their website.
That's great. You may not be your client.
(24:04):
You may not be the type of person that's hiring
you as a birth photographer and like I said as
someone who has been very successful at this for a very long time this has worked
for me year after year after year after year so again if you have pricing on
your website and you're happy with it then keep it up like I don't want anyone
(24:24):
to change anything that's working but if it's not then maybe consider taking pricing away.
Because the reason for me is that I find if I am able to connect with people,
it doesn't have to be long.
It's not like I have to get on an hour-long phone conversation.
But if I'm able to connect with them, even via email, if I'm able to open the door to conversation,
(24:46):
there is so much more room for them to potentially book versus if they- What
are you asking them? What are you connecting about?
Yeah, I mean, I always ask people where they're having their baby.
Because usually I have a relationship, again, going back to that thing that's
working for us is relationship.
I have relationships with providers. So for example, I had someone reach out
(25:10):
to me and they were giving birth with a doctor that I know really well.
Her kids go to school with my kids. So we have a professional relationship.
We have a personal relationship.
And so as soon as I saw her name on that inquiry form, I was like,
oh my gosh, you're working with Dr. So-and-so.
I love her. We're close friends. She's a wonderful OB.
(25:30):
And I know for a fact that that is the reason that that client ended up hiring me.
She was like, we love the fact that you know our OB. We love that you have that connection.
That conversation, yeah. People want their birth teams to be connected.
They really do. They want people like in that space that know each other and
know how to work with each other.
(25:51):
And that conversation never would have happened. That connection never would
have happened if they had just seen my pricing. Because I also know that I was
on the high, high end of their budget.
They were not expecting to pay my pricing.
But because I had that relationship with the doctor and because we were able
to connect in other ways, it was really, you know, really, I think,
(26:14):
foundational to them deciding to work with me.
So, again, you want to open the door. And I think sometimes if you have pricing
on the website, that door just shuts closed before you even have a chance to
peek in and learn about, like, who is this person? Like, what do we have in common?
You know, maybe it's, oh, you're having a baby in June? I had a baby in June.
(26:34):
I remember what it felt like to be pregnant at this time of year.
Like, there's just so many different ways that you can find an opportunity to connect.
And ultimately, people want to feel safe with their birth team.
You know, they're not it's it's so different than any other service that you're hiring for.
They want to feel like the people that are coming into their birth space,
(26:57):
know them, understand them, have similar values to them.
And so if you're able to demonstrate that, it's going to really help,
I think, make them decide like, OK, yes, I'm willing to invest extra money.
No, I think that's a really great point.
And if you're getting inquiries and you're having a hard time with this,
this is why we created the email and marketing toolkit.
(27:20):
Gosh, it was probably pre-COVID, so 2018, 2019, because we know that it's hard for people.
We know that it's hard sometimes to communicate in a way that feels both authentic and professional.
It's hard when you get some pushback to know how to respond to people.
And so we created a toolkit to kind of help people figure out like,
(27:41):
okay, you're getting a little bit of pushback. this is how you respond.
And that's another thing, you know, like, how do you respond to people via email?
How is your grammar? How is your like, are you using punctuation?
Are you capitalizing? Like if someone's going to invest, you know,
two, three, four, $5,000 in a service, they want to feel like that it's a professional experience.
(28:03):
And so, you know, if you're not confident about that, have a friend look at your emails.
And, you know, if you're like on your phone and typing being really quick and
there's errors or the grammar's off, that's not going to come across great.
And so you want to be professional. And that's another thing we love about the
toolkit is that we have a bunch of canned,
not canned, but we have a bunch of written responses that then you can kind
(28:25):
of tweak and edit based on the inquiry that comes in and based on,
of course, your unique business.
But yeah, it can be a really great foundational tool to help you respond in
a a way that is professional and authentic.
Yes. I have those emails right in my honey book and I just like pull them up
as a template every time and just make some adjustments.
(28:47):
And it works really well for me, especially if I'm feeling like tired from births
or I just don't know exactly what to say.
Like there are some days where you're just like, I don't know what to say.
I just want something that sounds good. And I feel like those templates help every single time.
And I want to I add, you know, even if somebody doesn't book you,
even if they reach out and they say, no, too expensive.
(29:12):
People have other babies and you offer more than one service often.
Like I offer family photos, I offer maternity and pregnancy photos.
So, you know, those people then are in your network.
And if they accept marketing, they're on your email list forever and they will reach back out.
You know, if you are still on their mind, if you can kind of stay in front of
(29:33):
them for the next couple of years with an email here and there,
if they follow you on social media, yeah, they'll have another baby and they'll
remember what that price was and
they'll have it in their head and they'll decide if they can afford it.
And I have people all the time who reach out, were a little unsure about price,
waited for their second baby and then third.
And then I have somebody that I have a fourth baby with and she wasn't able
(29:57):
to hire me the first time, but she made sure to save for it every single other time.
And that feels really good to know that like I made a connection.
We didn't even work together and she still came back two years later.
Yeah. It's about forming that connection and you want people to reach out to
you and you can give your pricing right away.
You don't have to trick people. You don't have to keep it hidden for long.
(30:19):
My formula is basically they reach out. I have a little bit of back and forth conversation.
I then send them my pricing guide. And then at that point, we hop on the phone
usually and have a conversation.
And that conversation on the phone usually is what seals the deal.
But sometimes they'll actually commit even sooner. or they'll get the pricing
guide and they'll say, okay, we're ready to sign up.
But I always engage in some conversation so I can get to know who they are,
(30:44):
their name, where they're having their baby, what their due date is.
And form some areas where we have commonalities. I think that's really crucial.
And then that kind of, I think that kind of goes into the next thing that I've seen and heard about.
And that comes to, and often happens during phone consults or in-person consults.
(31:05):
And I think sometimes we get nervous when we're meeting with a potential client.
And what happens to a lot of us when we get nervous is that we just talk. Like we just talk a lot.
We want to get all of our words out, all of our thoughts out.
We want to make sure that we are selling ourselves.
And so we're telling them all the packages and how it works and what it looks like.
And we forget to listen. We forget that we're in a conversation with another
(31:30):
human being and that this person has a unique story and has different unique values.
And we end up just like word vomiting sometimes and missing out on that ability
and that opportunity to really get to know who we are with.
Because remember, you know, you hire a birth photographer because you want to
(31:53):
be seen in your birth story.
And if you have a consult with someone and they just talk the whole time and
they're bringing all their energy in there, you might walk away being like,
well, she was fun, but like, I don't know if she really got to know me and what I want for my story.
And so I think what I always encourage our students to do is to like really
(32:14):
listen, like listen to what people are telling you, let them talk and pause
and think about what they're saying.
And then again, it's all about finding that connection, that commonality.
So maybe they're telling you about their first birth story.
Listen to it. Don't jump in and say, well, I had my first baby at home and it was great.
(32:35):
And like, no, like, listen to what they're saying. Like, what were their pain points?
And then talk about that. Be like, wow, like that must have been really hard
to be, you know, in this situation or, or whatever they're sharing with you.
Reiterate what they're saying. Acknowledge what they're saying.
Don't just jump in with like your version of what they've told hold you.
(32:56):
Because again, people want to feel that connection. They want to feel like they're safe with you.
They want to be able to imagine you in the birth room space.
Yeah. Right. Right. So it's, it's, I think that's crucial.
And again, we all do this. Like I do this, you know, we all talk,
talk, talk, but if you can find a way to make yourself pause and listen to what people are saying,
(33:19):
I think it can make a huge difference in your inquiry calls and in your consultations.
I have to like stop and write stuff down. I have to, you know,
if I'm having a consult with somebody, I just.
I need to sit at my desk. I need to have my notepad and I need to be able to
write stuff down so I can really listen to them and be like,
oh, their first birth, this was traumatic.
(33:40):
This was difficult. They didn't really say that at first, but the more they
talked about it, the more they're saying that.
And I think with birth, not everything comes out right away.
Like it's kind of a building story. Like if you have a difficult birth,
it's hard to talk to other people about that difficult birth unless you become
a safe space for that person.
(34:01):
Right. So I think it's really important to just be able to listen and to understand
or at least try to understand where that person is coming from,
because if they can envision some sort of connection, friendship,
relationship with you, then it's a lot easier to envision you in that birth space. Absolutely.
You know, I always ask my clients, like, what are you envisioning for your birth?
(34:24):
Because I think that really helps me understand what their values are. Right.
And I have some clients that are like, well, I want a home birth and I want
it to be undisturbed. And I want, you know, little intervention.
In the water. Yeah. And the water. And so then I'm like, okay, I'm like, okay, cool.
Like then maybe it makes sense for me to talk about my home birth experience.
(34:46):
Maybe I bring that up while I had my fourth baby at home and it was really wonderful.
And again, that's finding that commonality. But if someone else tells me,
you know what, I just, I want to be informed.
I don't want to be scared. I don't want to, I'm considering an epidural. Like I want to feel safe.
I may not jump in and be like, well, I had my fourth baby who was 10 pounds
(35:07):
in the water in my living room.
That's still part of my story and you don't have to hide it,
but it may not be the story that I share to connect with this particular client.
I might say, I totally get it. I was at a birth with your provider at the hospital
a couple of weeks ago and we had such a peaceful experience and I really liked
(35:29):
the nursing staff and they did a really good job of explaining things, right?
I'm not pretending or lying. I'm just thinking about like, okay,
what are they telling me and what part of my experience or my personal story
best aligns with what they want for their birth?
And that's kind of what I bring to the surface during that consultation.
(35:51):
So let me ask you one last question about like, so if you're getting an inquiry
in and somebody but he's like, okay, here's my due date.
I'm having my baby at such and such hospital.
What's your prices? Like, what is your process for that? How do you respond?
What's your initial sort of email? And when do you get them on the phone? When do you send prices?
(36:12):
That's a great question. So usually, especially if they're asking for pricing
right away, I try to at least have an email before I want to talk with them
before I'm giving them my pricing guide.
So I usually say, hey, I'm fairly booked for your due month, which is true.
I'm book out pretty, pretty early.
And I say, so I would love to just ask a few questions to make sure that I feel
(36:33):
like this could fit into my calendar.
And then I might ask them like, where are you? You know, if,
if I know where they're having their baby, great.
I might ask like, is this your first baby? Because that sometimes is helpful
information for my calendar, right?
If I have a client, if a month full of like first time parents,
that's going to be a very different month. So it's good information for me to have.
And so then I try to connect a little bit like, Hey, like I,
(36:55):
I love the hospital you're giving birth at. It's a wonderful place.
I know so-and-so there. I know so-and-so there.
Is this your first baby? And then I say, look forward to chatting more.
Usually they respond. They answer that question.
And at that point, I give my pricing guide. And I say, I would love to hop on the phone with you.
Do you have time to talk today, tomorrow? I try to make it pretty immediate.
(37:17):
And then at that point, they either say no, because the pricing is too much,
or they say, yes, we get on the phone.
If they say no, or if they don't respond, I follow up within 24 hours and I
say, hey, I just want to make sure you've got this. Do you have any questions?
Usually they'll get back to me and say, well...
You know, I'd love to work with you. It's just too expensive.
(37:38):
And at that point, I can kind of say, well, have you thought about a fresh 48 session?
Have you thought about a new foreign session? I had two clients this last month
that reached out, got my pricing guide, said it's too expensive.
And then after we conversed a little bit via email, they ended up both hiring
me for a fresh 48 session.
It's first baby. I have no doubt that we're going to have a great fresh 48 session.
(38:01):
And I bet you there's a really good chance they'll hire me to photograph the
birth for subsequent babies, right?
And again, I think if they had seen that pricing on my website,
it would have just been like, well, she's too expensive. I'm not even gonna reach out.
And instead I get to go see them and meet their little baby when baby's one
or two days old and form that bond that I know will be, yeah,
(38:25):
I know that's gonna grow.
I know that's gonna grow. No, that's so important. I actually had a very similar,
I offer a maternity and newborn package. package and that's what they reached
out for. That's what they booked.
And then after we finished their newborn session, I talked to them a little
bit about their birth and they had their baby at home in the living room,
right where we did the newborn session.
(38:45):
And I was like, well, if you, you know, decide to have any other babies and
you want a birth photographer, you know, just reach out.
And they were like, oh yeah, totally. We'll be reaching out.
We're having lots more babies and we want you to be there.
So, I mean, you just never know. And.
I think just asking for that confirmation a little bit or just asking for almost,
(39:05):
I don't want to say the sale because like, you know, they're not even pregnant
with their second baby or whatever.
But just like putting that in their brain a little bit and just kind of giving
them something to think about is really important.
It is. People have more babies. They come back. Like, I really, really do.
So, you know, it's all about building that continuity, that community,
(39:26):
that email list. All of it. All of it works together. other.
Well, Jen, this was great to talk with you today. And like I said,
I know that marketing is.
It's such a huge topic and we have just kind of scratched the surface,
but we hope that you walked away with at least one thing that you can think
about that maybe you can sit down and take some notes and try to change or incorporate
(39:49):
into your current marketing plan. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Thanks for being here. Thanks for being here. Bye. Bye.
The email and marketing toolkit from BBY is on sale this month.
You can use the coupon code marketing for $30 off.
We know how discouraging it can be when you aren't booking as many birth clients as you'd like.
(40:11):
We know how tiring it can be to answer countless objections to your pricing.
We know how exhausting it is to explain the importance of these moments.
When you purchase this toolkit you'll have thoughtful and
tested responses to all of these objections and
more right at your fingertips you will
be able to have an instant download with 35 pages of
(40:31):
templates to help you book more clients overcome common
objections to birth photography and develop a strong marketing strategy again
use coupon code marketing for $30 off for the remainder of the month and you
can find that on our website just go to birthbecomesyou.com and click on our
shop button and all of our products are right there.
Okay, Jen, we're trying again for the third time. We've had a few restarts on
this podcast because I think we're both tired. We've had a lot of births this week.
And Jen and I have a tendency sometimes to, yeah, just thinking like 12 year olds. Yes, exactly.
But we're going to do it this time. We are really glad that you're here.
(00:22):
It's been a busy week, as I said. I had two births yesterday.
One, I barely made it. It was like 15 minutes before baby arrived,
or I guess before I got there and then baby was born 15 minutes later.
And then I had another birth where I thought, you know, it was a similar situation,
like water broke, you know, mold tip.
And I got there and it was like eight hours before baby was born.
(00:45):
So two very different births, but I was able to be at both.
And yeah, I'm just kind of recovering today. How are you, Jen?
I'm good. I had a similar birth where the client wasn't really sure if she was
in labor and just kind of texted me a heads up.
And then a few minutes later texted that her water broke and things were intense immediately.
Immediately so most of my clients are about an hour
(01:06):
away so I immediately left and made it with about
30 minutes before the baby so you know
it really gets the adrenaline pumping when it's yes yeah I was I called Jen
on my way to my first birth because it was an hour plus drive and I don't normally
do that anymore and so March was able to talk with me I guess it was on the
(01:26):
way home she talked to me the whole way home because I was really tired and
I was like I cannot believe you do this on the regular,
that hour long commute is really challenging.
It's challenging to time it right. And then it's challenging to drive it when
it's the middle of the night or early morning.
So thanks for staying on the phone with me, making sure I get home safe.
(01:48):
But yeah, we are, we're super excited that you're here. We're going to be talking
about marketing, which we know is an important topic, but can be painful for lots of us.
So we'll be discussing saying this, I think many times on this podcast,
this is just kind of, you know, our first episode.
So if you have questions about marketing, please let us know.
And we're going to go ahead and jump in.
(02:55):
And to thank our first listeners, we are offering an exclusive promotion of
25% off any item in the shop through the end of July.
To redeem it, you can go to birthbecomesyou.com and click on the shop in our
menu and use promo code PODCAST25 at checkout.
(03:20):
That's promo code PODCAST25 when you check out.
We have tons of items in the shop that include toolkits and contracts for birth
photographers, toolkits for new birth photographers to teach you how to photograph
your own birth and step into the birth space for the very first time.
(03:40):
We also have presets. We have mentoring.
We have a whole host of things. So head on over to our shop at birthbecomesyou.com
and use code PODCAST25 at checkout.
Thank you so much. Okay, so today we are going to talk about two things that
(04:01):
might be working for you and two things that might not be working for you in terms of marketing.
We feel so lucky because we get to talk to birth photographers all over the
country and the world on a regular basis.
And we kind of get to hear like, what's going well? What's not going well?
(04:21):
What are you struggling with? and of course then
we have our own businesses you know I think that's one of the
things that I love about birth becomes you and
I love about the work that Jen and I do is that we are
still like very busy practicing birth photographers like we are in the trenches
right now this isn't stuff that we've done you know five years ago or ten years
(04:42):
ago like we are in it with you and we are trying to figure out this rapidly
changing marketing world with you right now because it
changes all the time and things that worked like five years ago don't work right now.
And I think that's definitely, I don't know about you, Jen, but it's like,
I wish there was just a magical formula that you could just be like, okay, this is the key.
(05:05):
And if you follow these steps, it will work.
But I think we live in a time period where there's so much change,
especially in technology that there's rapid disruptions of past formulas for
marketing and success. And so you have to kind of be on your toes.
So I think we should probably start with two things that might be working for you.
(05:28):
And the thing that I love about number one is that this is actually,
this is like the bread and butter.
I feel like a lot has changed, but I think this has stayed the same for a really
long time and will continue to stay the same for many years to come.
And that's relationships.
Like relationships are the key to this business and the key to booking clients.
(05:54):
Now, like when I say relationships, I'm thinking like midwives,
I'm thinking, who else? Like fellow.
Julas. Julas, yeah. Julas. Unity.
Even other photographers that are in the community.
Because birth photographers aren't just working in birth, they're also photographers.
So, you know, you should be in all of the birth communities that you can find
(06:18):
locally, but you should also be in all of the photography communities as well.
Because you really are balancing both worlds.
Absolutely. Yeah, we have this really unique position in that we understand
what it's like to photograph an event, you know, but then we're also photographing
this kind of wild, unpredictable story, which is birth, right?
(06:40):
And so we're bringing in, we're kind of straddling both worlds.
And, you know, I always tell people, like when they ask personally,
like what's the most important relationships that you foster?
For me personally, it's home birth midwives.
Honestly, that's where I get the best referrals because when someone hires a
home birth midwife, there's a really strong relationship that is either developing
(07:04):
or has already developed.
They trust this person with their life, with their baby's life.
Any recommendation they give, I think, is really taken pretty seriously.
And so I have several home birth midwives in this area that have been recommending
me to clients for years and years.
And, you know, when I get an inquiry in my email inbox and it says so-and-so
(07:28):
referred you or so-and-so referred you, I'm like, okay, like,
I know that this is probably going to be a client that books me.
And so it's really important and a lot
of people you know struggle with like well how do i develop those
relationships right i mean especially if you're brand new it
can feel really difficult to step in and be
like you know maybe you've tried and you haven't gotten a response so what would
(07:51):
you suggest people do like do you have any thoughts jen like if someone's like
new and they're like i don't know how to become friends with these people like
what would you suggest doing i think the most important thing is to just see
what's going on in your local community,
and see what you can do within that community in person.
There's always something happening. At least here, there's always something.
(08:13):
There's some sort of training. There's some sort of meetup.
And it's great to just like go there with the only intention being.
Getting to know the local community and the peers that you're going to be working
with in the community without anything else other than just like getting to know them.
Don't necessarily take business cards. Don't say, hey, will you refer me?
(08:36):
Just meet these people and talk to them and become friends with them.
I really think that's the most important thing.
Yeah, I think that's so true. And I think it's it's like multifaceted.
You know, it's like if you meet these people at an event or if you're then like
follow them on Instagram and just send them a nice message and be like,
Hey, it was really nice to meet you. I really appreciate it talking to you.
(08:57):
And then start like commenting on their posts, like following what they're sharing,
being engaged in the content that they are wanting to put out into the world.
You'd be surprised at how like that does make a difference. You know,
it's going to set you apart.
It's a lot different than getting an email in your inbox saying,
Hey, like, can we meet for lunch?
(09:18):
For a busy midwife that can feel like one more to-do task, you know,
that you may not have the capacity for right now.
But if you start engaging and you start connecting in multiple ways,
I think a true friendship usually starts to form.
So be kind, be persistent.
Think about, you know, small things that you can do. You know,
(09:39):
maybe it's like, can you bring a coffee?
You know, can you, if they have an office, like, can you bring some coffee and donuts over?
We just had a neighbor bring us like a box of donuts. And I was like, what?
Like, I was just like a box of donuts, but it was such a kind gesture that like,
I'm like, you know, I feel like so much warmth in my heart, you know, and so I...
(10:01):
Again, like it's as simple as like get a box of donuts and just bring it to
their office or, you know, smoothies or like something like, I don't know, coffee,
whatever your whatever your midwife people like bring, bring some to them,
you know, always, always coffee. Yeah, always coffee.
One of the mid or one of the doulas here and actually one of our friends in
Colorado has done this as well, but she will always take like cookies and goodies
(10:26):
for whatever the like national day is.
So if it's like National Doula Week, she'll like give all of the doulas in the
community like something.
If it's National Midwifery Week, she'll do that.
And she just does that from like the goodness of her heart. She has a really big network anyway.
But if you're newer, that's a great way to like meet people in person.
(10:50):
You have something to give to them like they're going to remember you because you gave them a gift.
Absolutely. I love that. I love that. Yeah. And just meeting other birth photographers, too.
I mean, I know that I cannot take every inquiry that I get because some months
I'm full or some leads are too far away.
So just meeting other birth photographers and networking with them is really helpful, too.
(11:14):
That's so true. I mean, I was at the birth yesterday and I had two inquiries
come in for December. I'm not taking December clients.
And so those are people that, you know, want to hire. And, you know,
I thankfully I have a lot of great relationships with, you know,
birth photographers, newer birth photographers, established birth photographers.
And so I have a list of referrals. So I think that's a really good point, Jen.
(11:35):
Definitely connect with the people that are doing the work and the community.
You need a community to do this work well.
Yes. And I also think it's just fair to like say, you know, we want to address
the local photography community too.
And, you know, being active in maybe like a local Facebook group or even a local
photography get-together.
(11:57):
In Denver, we had the local Betty's group where people, we would get together
like, I don't know, I think it was like a couple times a year.
And then here there are local Detroit photography groups that get together.
So even just like having a presence in that space as well, because these are
people who are photographing weddings and photographing portraits and photographing pregnancy sessions.
(12:19):
And they may not want to photograph births and birth photography is growing.
So it's nice for them to have somebody to refer to.
Absolutely. And, you know, I think about like the referrals that I get from other photographers.
And I will say this, like you want to, you want to become friends with the higher
end photographers, the photographers that have specialized.
(12:41):
You don't necessarily want to become, I mean, become friends with whoever you
want to become friends with, of course, but in terms of like strategic marketing.
Connections with other photographers that have really niched down and have really
refined who they are and who they serve.
Those are going to be the people that give you really good referrals because
they know like, Hey, I'm the premier wedding photographer.
(13:04):
I birth is cool, but I, that is not my focus. That is not my strength.
And so they will happily pass that off versus someone who was like,
I do seniors. I do kids. I do babies. I do weddings.
I do everything under the sun, those folks are likely not going to refer you
to someone who reaches out about birth photography.
They will do someone's birth, you know, probably for like an insanely low amount
(13:27):
of money, but find the people that are really good,
the really good newborn photographers, like the best of the best,
because again, their business is so established that they're not going to be
able to deal with or yeah,
take a birth. We all know how births are.
They're not going to be be able to cancel on their newborn clients because that's their prime focus.
So I think that's a really great point.
(13:49):
The other thing that I think I see work for people that are doing well is that
they have a multi-dimensional marketing plan.
So that would be number two, like make sure that you have a really thought out plan.
Marketing is not just like, I'm going to try this and I'm going to do this.
Like it really is about sitting down and thinking about your strategy and the
(14:12):
areas where where you feel like you are naturally gifted at and are doing well,
and then the areas that you're weaker in.
So when I think about marketing, I think about a few things.
I think about social media, obviously. We all have a love-hate relationship.
So how active are you on social media?
How large are your followings? How engaged are people in your accounts?
(14:35):
So that's one component. And that includes Instagram, and that also includes TikTok.
And you might say, I'm really good on Instagram, but TikTok, like I don't even know.
You want to think about that, like write it down. If you're not doing anything
on TikTok, then circle that.
And that should be something you should start thinking about.
And I'm giving this advice to myself because I have a TikTok account that I've
(14:57):
like started and abandoned and started.
So it's okay if you don't know how to do it, but you do need to be thinking about it.
It's part of a full marketing plan. in. So social media.
And then you also want to think about your website. Are you getting traffic to your website?
Have you looked at the traffic to your website? Is it going up?
(15:18):
Is it going down? How is your SEO?
Is your site optimized? Is it optimized for speed?
All of those things you want to think about in terms of how is your website
working for you or is it working against you?
And then you also want to think about, I think, Facebook groups and kind of
that, what would you call that almost? like that community, online community spaces. Yeah. Yeah.
(15:43):
Are you, are you active? Like, do people know your name? You know,
I, there's local groups. We have several in Denver.
I think every community has several.
How active are you? Or do you just completely avoid it altogether?
What else would you say? Of course, there's like print marketing,
which I think again, has become less popular, except I would say for like things
(16:04):
like canvases, like you can bring canvases to providers' offices.
You can have like cards, like rack cards. They can, you know,
I know certain OB offices, certain midwife offices have like tables full of
like resources for people.
So I think it definitely still has a place. And look, like it's okay if you
like are writing down a list of all these different areas and you're like,
(16:26):
well, really good at Instagram, but everything else has kind of gone to the back burner.
That's normal. And I think what you need to do is figure out like,
okay, what areas can I improve myself that I'm like, okay, I just need to blog
more. I just need to be more consistent. I can do that.
And what areas are you like, are you like, I don't,
I don't know how to do this. I don't want to learn how to do this.
(16:48):
Maybe I should outsource this to somebody else. Is that SEO?
Is that TikTok? There are plenty of people that offer these services.
So if you're not able to do it yourself and you are not booking as many people
as you want to book, then it would
be worth figuring out if you can find somebody that can help you do it.
(17:08):
Because the people that are successful, they're hitting multiple areas.
Is. They're not just doing one thing. Exactly.
And I would also add email marketing as well. If you don't have an email list, get one, start one.
Your website host probably has one built in. If you have Squarespace or WordPress,
I believe WordPress has one built in now.
(17:31):
And if not, there's MailChimp and MailerLite and multiple mailing options.
So just starting an email
list and sending out an email and putting people on it that have accepted marketing
from you before and put something on your website so that you can give away
(17:51):
something like a guide or top three locations for your family session and have people give an email,
they get something from you and then you've collected that email and you're
adding that to your list.
And just sending out something once a month, even if you can do it once a quarter, That's my goal.
Like four or five times a year, if I can send out an email, I feel pretty good
(18:15):
about it. And they always have people respond to those emails.
And I always book clients from that.
Always, always. And my email list isn't that big. I have like a thousand people.
Maybe. I'm sure Monet has way more. And I still am booking from that list. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I think what's, what's cool about that is that whenever I send
(18:35):
an email out, you know, it's often like my old clients that are reading those emails.
And so I'll usually hear from them. It's a way for me to connect with them,
which of course is great.
Sometimes they're pregnant and that's great. Cause then they're like,
oh my gosh, yeah, I need to book you.
Right. But I think what's important is that it's like putting you at the forefront
of their mind, because maybe they're not going to have more babies,
but maybe they get that email
(18:57):
and then they're going out to lunch with a friend and they're like,
oh my gosh, like I just got an email from my old birth photographer.
Have you thought about doing this? Like it's really, it's, it's powerful.
And a lot of marketing experts will say that it's one of the most important
things that you can do is to build a marketing list and to use it well.
So I think that's a really great, great point, Jen.
(19:19):
And I want to add, like just throwing this out there, Pinterest has actually
been working okay for me.
I got my first Pinterest inquiry like just maybe a month ago.
And all I have done on Pinterest is pin a couple blog posts.
That's it. And they're just out there in the world on Pinterest.
And eventually people see them and they look through your website.
(19:40):
And if they're local, they're clicking through. But a pin stays out there in
the world on Pinterest for a very long time where a social media post just kind
of goes on buy. So it's just something to consider.
I wouldn't say like if you go out and do Pinterest today, you're going to get
a ton of clients back. Everything is kind of a snowball effect.
You know, it's all a slow build. And if you do, you know, something over here
(20:01):
and you're doing it well, and then you're doing your email list and doing it
well and social media and Pinterest and making local connections,
like all of that is going to come together for you.
It does just take time and you have to like push through that initial phase of,
I got to do all of these things. Like, yes, you do have to do all of them.
Prioritize and just start because the sooner you start, the sooner it works for you. Absolutely.
(20:26):
Okay. So now we're going to talk about two things that may not be working to your advantage.
And again, this is based on conversations we've had with lots of birth photographers.
Around the country and the world.
And again, I think we probably should have said this at the beginning of the
conversation is that marketing is tricky and what works really well in one community
(20:49):
might not work in another community.
So if you are like, look, like I'm doing great and I'm doing things differently,
then that's wonderful, like totally okay.
But if you're struggling to book and you're not booking as many people as you
want, then I think the best thing you can be is open to new ideas and new suggestions.
And so maybe some of this has resonated with you and you're willing to try something different.
(21:14):
And so that's the point of this conversation is not to say that this is the
way you have to do things, but to just get the conversation and to get the thoughts going.
So the thing that I see people doing that I have often seen to not work out
super well is to list pricing on your website.
(21:35):
Now, again, this is- So controversial. Controversial. People have strong opinions about this. They do.
But I will say as someone who has probably photographed more births than most
anyone in the United States, I have never listed pricing on my website and I have attended 800,
(21:55):
900 births over the last 10 years.
That's what I do. And it's worked really well for me. And so if you have your
prices on your website and you're booking people and it's going great,
then keep on doing that. That's awesome.
Don't stop. But if you aren't booking people, Oh?
And you have or or if something has changed, like that's where I want to say,
(22:16):
like, what if you were booking before and you're not booking now?
Like you can't always do what you've always done and expect the same results
because your clients are different and technology is different and the world is different.
So you do have to be fluid and be willing to change things that you're doing.
Sometimes I try to get people on the phone. Sometimes I can talk to them more
(22:36):
in email like it is constantly fluctuating. And I think you have to be open
to that, just like Monet said.
Yes. So, you know, with pricing on the website, I think what happens is people
are often, you know, they've done a quick Google search. They found five birth photographers.
If everybody's pricing is on the website, they will often just kind of jump
(22:58):
from tab to tab and be like, okay, this one's most expensive.
I'm going to close this one. This one's least expensive.
I'm going to close this one. And they might find people that are right in the
middle and then compare those to each other.
Right. But again, it's all kind of coming in. You're making people compare based on price.
And I just don't with, with how personal birth is and how vulnerable it is.
(23:21):
I don't necessarily think that you want people making a decision based on pricing.
You want them to make a decision on your art, the work that you create and on
the connection they have or don't have with you as a photographer and as a birth worker,
I think that should be what is driving people to make the decision, not necessarily price.
(23:43):
And when you put price out there, just because of how humans are and especially
how capitalism works, we're often just like, that's what we start to focus on is like, okay, price.
And I hear people say, well, I would never reach out to somebody who doesn't
have pricing on their website.
That's great. You may not be your client.
(24:04):
You may not be the type of person that's hiring
you as a birth photographer and like I said as
someone who has been very successful at this for a very long time this has worked
for me year after year after year after year so again if you have pricing on
your website and you're happy with it then keep it up like I don't want anyone
(24:24):
to change anything that's working but if it's not then maybe consider taking pricing away.
Because the reason for me is that I find if I am able to connect with people,
it doesn't have to be long.
It's not like I have to get on an hour-long phone conversation.
But if I'm able to connect with them, even via email, if I'm able to open the door to conversation,
(24:46):
there is so much more room for them to potentially book versus if they- What
are you asking them? What are you connecting about?
Yeah, I mean, I always ask people where they're having their baby.
Because usually I have a relationship, again, going back to that thing that's
working for us is relationship.
I have relationships with providers. So for example, I had someone reach out
(25:10):
to me and they were giving birth with a doctor that I know really well.
Her kids go to school with my kids. So we have a professional relationship.
We have a personal relationship.
And so as soon as I saw her name on that inquiry form, I was like,
oh my gosh, you're working with Dr. So-and-so.
I love her. We're close friends. She's a wonderful OB.
(25:30):
And I know for a fact that that is the reason that that client ended up hiring me.
She was like, we love the fact that you know our OB. We love that you have that connection.
That conversation, yeah. People want their birth teams to be connected.
They really do. They want people like in that space that know each other and
know how to work with each other.
(25:51):
And that conversation never would have happened. That connection never would
have happened if they had just seen my pricing. Because I also know that I was
on the high, high end of their budget.
They were not expecting to pay my pricing.
But because I had that relationship with the doctor and because we were able
to connect in other ways, it was really, you know, really, I think,
(26:14):
foundational to them deciding to work with me.
So, again, you want to open the door. And I think sometimes if you have pricing
on the website, that door just shuts closed before you even have a chance to
peek in and learn about, like, who is this person? Like, what do we have in common?
You know, maybe it's, oh, you're having a baby in June? I had a baby in June.
(26:34):
I remember what it felt like to be pregnant at this time of year.
Like, there's just so many different ways that you can find an opportunity to connect.
And ultimately, people want to feel safe with their birth team.
You know, they're not it's it's so different than any other service that you're hiring for.
They want to feel like the people that are coming into their birth space,
(26:57):
know them, understand them, have similar values to them.
And so if you're able to demonstrate that, it's going to really help,
I think, make them decide like, OK, yes, I'm willing to invest extra money.
No, I think that's a really great point.
And if you're getting inquiries and you're having a hard time with this,
this is why we created the email and marketing toolkit.
(27:20):
Gosh, it was probably pre-COVID, so 2018, 2019, because we know that it's hard for people.
We know that it's hard sometimes to communicate in a way that feels both authentic and professional.
It's hard when you get some pushback to know how to respond to people.
And so we created a toolkit to kind of help people figure out like,
(27:41):
okay, you're getting a little bit of pushback. this is how you respond.
And that's another thing, you know, like, how do you respond to people via email?
How is your grammar? How is your like, are you using punctuation?
Are you capitalizing? Like if someone's going to invest, you know,
two, three, four, $5,000 in a service, they want to feel like that it's a professional experience.
(28:03):
And so, you know, if you're not confident about that, have a friend look at your emails.
And, you know, if you're like on your phone and typing being really quick and
there's errors or the grammar's off, that's not going to come across great.
And so you want to be professional. And that's another thing we love about the
toolkit is that we have a bunch of canned,
not canned, but we have a bunch of written responses that then you can kind
(28:25):
of tweak and edit based on the inquiry that comes in and based on,
of course, your unique business.
But yeah, it can be a really great foundational tool to help you respond in
a a way that is professional and authentic.
Yes. I have those emails right in my honey book and I just like pull them up
as a template every time and just make some adjustments.
(28:47):
And it works really well for me, especially if I'm feeling like tired from births
or I just don't know exactly what to say.
Like there are some days where you're just like, I don't know what to say.
I just want something that sounds good. And I feel like those templates help every single time.
And I want to I add, you know, even if somebody doesn't book you,
even if they reach out and they say, no, too expensive.
(29:12):
People have other babies and you offer more than one service often.
Like I offer family photos, I offer maternity and pregnancy photos.
So, you know, those people then are in your network.
And if they accept marketing, they're on your email list forever and they will reach back out.
You know, if you are still on their mind, if you can kind of stay in front of
(29:33):
them for the next couple of years with an email here and there,
if they follow you on social media, yeah, they'll have another baby and they'll
remember what that price was and
they'll have it in their head and they'll decide if they can afford it.
And I have people all the time who reach out, were a little unsure about price,
waited for their second baby and then third.
And then I have somebody that I have a fourth baby with and she wasn't able
(29:57):
to hire me the first time, but she made sure to save for it every single other time.
And that feels really good to know that like I made a connection.
We didn't even work together and she still came back two years later.
Yeah. It's about forming that connection and you want people to reach out to
you and you can give your pricing right away.
You don't have to trick people. You don't have to keep it hidden for long.
(30:19):
My formula is basically they reach out. I have a little bit of back and forth conversation.
I then send them my pricing guide. And then at that point, we hop on the phone
usually and have a conversation.
And that conversation on the phone usually is what seals the deal.
But sometimes they'll actually commit even sooner. or they'll get the pricing
guide and they'll say, okay, we're ready to sign up.
But I always engage in some conversation so I can get to know who they are,
(30:44):
their name, where they're having their baby, what their due date is.
And form some areas where we have commonalities. I think that's really crucial.
And then that kind of, I think that kind of goes into the next thing that I've seen and heard about.
And that comes to, and often happens during phone consults or in-person consults.
(31:05):
And I think sometimes we get nervous when we're meeting with a potential client.
And what happens to a lot of us when we get nervous is that we just talk. Like we just talk a lot.
We want to get all of our words out, all of our thoughts out.
We want to make sure that we are selling ourselves.
And so we're telling them all the packages and how it works and what it looks like.
And we forget to listen. We forget that we're in a conversation with another
(31:30):
human being and that this person has a unique story and has different unique values.
And we end up just like word vomiting sometimes and missing out on that ability
and that opportunity to really get to know who we are with.
Because remember, you know, you hire a birth photographer because you want to
(31:53):
be seen in your birth story.
And if you have a consult with someone and they just talk the whole time and
they're bringing all their energy in there, you might walk away being like,
well, she was fun, but like, I don't know if she really got to know me and what I want for my story.
And so I think what I always encourage our students to do is to like really
(32:14):
listen, like listen to what people are telling you, let them talk and pause
and think about what they're saying.
And then again, it's all about finding that connection, that commonality.
So maybe they're telling you about their first birth story.
Listen to it. Don't jump in and say, well, I had my first baby at home and it was great.
(32:35):
And like, no, like, listen to what they're saying. Like, what were their pain points?
And then talk about that. Be like, wow, like that must have been really hard
to be, you know, in this situation or, or whatever they're sharing with you.
Reiterate what they're saying. Acknowledge what they're saying.
Don't just jump in with like your version of what they've told hold you.
(32:56):
Because again, people want to feel that connection. They want to feel like they're safe with you.
They want to be able to imagine you in the birth room space.
Yeah. Right. Right. So it's, it's, I think that's crucial.
And again, we all do this. Like I do this, you know, we all talk,
talk, talk, but if you can find a way to make yourself pause and listen to what people are saying,
(33:19):
I think it can make a huge difference in your inquiry calls and in your consultations.
I have to like stop and write stuff down. I have to, you know,
if I'm having a consult with somebody, I just.
I need to sit at my desk. I need to have my notepad and I need to be able to
write stuff down so I can really listen to them and be like,
oh, their first birth, this was traumatic.
(33:40):
This was difficult. They didn't really say that at first, but the more they
talked about it, the more they're saying that.
And I think with birth, not everything comes out right away.
Like it's kind of a building story. Like if you have a difficult birth,
it's hard to talk to other people about that difficult birth unless you become
a safe space for that person.
(34:01):
Right. So I think it's really important to just be able to listen and to understand
or at least try to understand where that person is coming from,
because if they can envision some sort of connection, friendship,
relationship with you, then it's a lot easier to envision you in that birth space. Absolutely.
You know, I always ask my clients, like, what are you envisioning for your birth?
(34:24):
Because I think that really helps me understand what their values are. Right.
And I have some clients that are like, well, I want a home birth and I want
it to be undisturbed. And I want, you know, little intervention.
In the water. Yeah. And the water. And so then I'm like, okay, I'm like, okay, cool.
Like then maybe it makes sense for me to talk about my home birth experience.
(34:46):
Maybe I bring that up while I had my fourth baby at home and it was really wonderful.
And again, that's finding that commonality. But if someone else tells me,
you know what, I just, I want to be informed.
I don't want to be scared. I don't want to, I'm considering an epidural. Like I want to feel safe.
I may not jump in and be like, well, I had my fourth baby who was 10 pounds
(35:07):
in the water in my living room.
That's still part of my story and you don't have to hide it,
but it may not be the story that I share to connect with this particular client.
I might say, I totally get it. I was at a birth with your provider at the hospital
a couple of weeks ago and we had such a peaceful experience and I really liked
(35:29):
the nursing staff and they did a really good job of explaining things, right?
I'm not pretending or lying. I'm just thinking about like, okay,
what are they telling me and what part of my experience or my personal story
best aligns with what they want for their birth?
And that's kind of what I bring to the surface during that consultation.
(35:51):
So let me ask you one last question about like, so if you're getting an inquiry
in and somebody but he's like, okay, here's my due date.
I'm having my baby at such and such hospital.
What's your prices? Like, what is your process for that? How do you respond?
What's your initial sort of email? And when do you get them on the phone? When do you send prices?
(36:12):
That's a great question. So usually, especially if they're asking for pricing
right away, I try to at least have an email before I want to talk with them
before I'm giving them my pricing guide.
So I usually say, hey, I'm fairly booked for your due month, which is true.
I'm book out pretty, pretty early.
And I say, so I would love to just ask a few questions to make sure that I feel
(36:33):
like this could fit into my calendar.
And then I might ask them like, where are you? You know, if,
if I know where they're having their baby, great.
I might ask like, is this your first baby? Because that sometimes is helpful
information for my calendar, right?
If I have a client, if a month full of like first time parents,
that's going to be a very different month. So it's good information for me to have.
And so then I try to connect a little bit like, Hey, like I,
(36:55):
I love the hospital you're giving birth at. It's a wonderful place.
I know so-and-so there. I know so-and-so there.
Is this your first baby? And then I say, look forward to chatting more.
Usually they respond. They answer that question.
And at that point, I give my pricing guide. And I say, I would love to hop on the phone with you.
Do you have time to talk today, tomorrow? I try to make it pretty immediate.
(37:17):
And then at that point, they either say no, because the pricing is too much,
or they say, yes, we get on the phone.
If they say no, or if they don't respond, I follow up within 24 hours and I
say, hey, I just want to make sure you've got this. Do you have any questions?
Usually they'll get back to me and say, well...
You know, I'd love to work with you. It's just too expensive.
(37:38):
And at that point, I can kind of say, well, have you thought about a fresh 48 session?
Have you thought about a new foreign session? I had two clients this last month
that reached out, got my pricing guide, said it's too expensive.
And then after we conversed a little bit via email, they ended up both hiring
me for a fresh 48 session.
It's first baby. I have no doubt that we're going to have a great fresh 48 session.
(38:01):
And I bet you there's a really good chance they'll hire me to photograph the
birth for subsequent babies, right?
And again, I think if they had seen that pricing on my website,
it would have just been like, well, she's too expensive. I'm not even gonna reach out.
And instead I get to go see them and meet their little baby when baby's one
or two days old and form that bond that I know will be, yeah,
(38:25):
I know that's gonna grow.
I know that's gonna grow. No, that's so important. I actually had a very similar,
I offer a maternity and newborn package. package and that's what they reached
out for. That's what they booked.
And then after we finished their newborn session, I talked to them a little
bit about their birth and they had their baby at home in the living room,
right where we did the newborn session.
(38:45):
And I was like, well, if you, you know, decide to have any other babies and
you want a birth photographer, you know, just reach out.
And they were like, oh yeah, totally. We'll be reaching out.
We're having lots more babies and we want you to be there.
So, I mean, you just never know. And.
I think just asking for that confirmation a little bit or just asking for almost,
(39:05):
I don't want to say the sale because like, you know, they're not even pregnant
with their second baby or whatever.
But just like putting that in their brain a little bit and just kind of giving
them something to think about is really important.
It is. People have more babies. They come back. Like, I really, really do.
So, you know, it's all about building that continuity, that community,
(39:26):
that email list. All of it. All of it works together. other.
Well, Jen, this was great to talk with you today. And like I said,
I know that marketing is.
It's such a huge topic and we have just kind of scratched the surface,
but we hope that you walked away with at least one thing that you can think
about that maybe you can sit down and take some notes and try to change or incorporate
(39:49):
into your current marketing plan. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Thanks for being here. Thanks for being here. Bye. Bye.
The email and marketing toolkit from BBY is on sale this month.
You can use the coupon code marketing for $30 off.
We know how discouraging it can be when you aren't booking as many birth clients as you'd like.
(40:11):
We know how tiring it can be to answer countless objections to your pricing.
We know how exhausting it is to explain the importance of these moments.
When you purchase this toolkit you'll have thoughtful and
tested responses to all of these objections and
more right at your fingertips you will
be able to have an instant download with 35 pages of
(40:31):
templates to help you book more clients overcome common
objections to birth photography and develop a strong marketing strategy again
use coupon code marketing for $30 off for the remainder of the month and you
can find that on our website just go to birthbecomesyou.com and click on our
shop button and all of our products are right there.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.