July 9, 2024 • 51 mins
Hey friends! It's Jenn and Monet, co-founders of Birth Becomes You, and we're here to chat about why birth photographers should be allowed in the OR. We know it's a hot topic and we're super excited to dive in.
In this episode, we're tackling the importance of having birth photographers in the OR. From our own personal experiences to the broader impact on patient satisfaction, we're covering it all. We'll also discuss how you can advocate for this change in your local hospitals.
Plus, as a thank you for joining us on our podcast debut, we're offering an exclusive 25% off any item in our shop through July 31st. Use promo code PODCAST25 at checkout in our shop. Whether you're new to birth photography or looking to grow, we've got toolkits, presets, mentoring, and more to support you.
So let's dive in and push for positive change together. Thanks for being here, and we can't wait to connect with you!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, Jen. Hi, Monet. How are you? I'm good. We're in the middle of summer break here.
So as you can imagine, we have kids at home and we are recording and sometimes
like less than optimal situation.
So right now, all four of my kids are upstairs and I've told them to be quiet,
but hopefully we won't have too many noise interruptions. But if you hear something
(00:23):
falling or a child screeching.
Don't be alarmed. It's just my kids.
And yeah, we're super excited to be chatting together today.
Absolutely. And my little kids are home too. And we also have a very loud puppy.
So you're going to hear some stuff today for sure. Lots of noise.
Jen and I were joking and said we wish that we could record these podcasts while
(00:46):
we were both on our walks.
We often walk and talk together, which allows us to get away from the craziness
of home and have some quiet at
time, but obviously it's not the most ideal podcast recording situation,
but maybe one day we will just record our phone calls because that's often when
we have the best conversations.
But yeah, we're going to go ahead and start chatting about our topic today.
(01:10):
And we are so glad all of you are listening.
It's been super exciting and wonderful to receive all of the feedback and the emails.
We're so glad that so many of you have followed us and we can't wait to share more.
Yeah, it's been really fun to hear all of the feedback for sure.
Especially since it's so personal, like these were our birth stories and people
(01:31):
have commented on those. And I don't know, I've just, I really enjoyed it.
We really like waited so long to finally do this and I'm excited to finally
be doing it. So yeah, me too.
Hi, it's Monet and Jen and we are the co-founders of Birth Becomes You.
We are birth photographers and doulas with over 10 years of experience.
We've attended over 1,000 births collectively.
(01:54):
We started Birth Becomes You to create a safe space for new and experienced
birth photographers to share and grow. We aim to.
Empower birth workers to feel confident in the birth space and take beautiful
world-changing images.
We believe in a world where birth is visible, where shame is absent,
where fear is translated to power, and where each individual's experience is
(02:17):
honored as valid and valued.
We are so glad you're here and we can't wait to learn and connect with you.
We are so glad that you joined us for the debut of our podcast.
And to thank our first listeners, we are offering an an exclusive promotion
of 25% off any item in the shop through the end of July, so through July 31st.
(02:40):
To redeem it, you can go to birthbecomesyou.com and click on the shop in our
menu and use promo code PODCAST25 at checkout.
That's promo code PODCAST25 when you check out.
We have tons of items in the shop that include toolkits and contracts for birth photographers,
(03:06):
toolkits for new birth photographers to teach you how to photograph your own
birth and step into the birth space for the very first time.
We also have presets, we have mentoring, we have a whole host of things.
So head on over to our shop at birthbecomesyou.com and you use code podcast25
at checkout. Thank you so much.
(03:29):
All right. So we are excited to talk about this topic today.
It's one that's like near and dear to my heart.
And we're going to talk to you more about why birth photographers should be allowed in the OR.
Absolutely. In every hospital, always. Always. Yes.
We firmly believe that it's, you know, 2024 and it is time for this to be the
(03:54):
norm and not the exception.
And I know that some of you listening are living in communities where it is
the norm and you do go back into the OR frequently.
And we know that there are others of you that are listening that you never get
back into the OR and you have been fighting for years.
So we want to acknowledge the wide spectrum.
(04:15):
And for those who are working in birth, maybe as labor and delivery nurses,
as midwives, as OBs, we want to talk about the differences across the country,
because I think sometimes when you work in a hospital system,
it can be so insular and all you really know or see or hear about is what's
happening in your hospital.
And we want to bring awareness and say that, yes, like all across the country
(04:39):
at all different types of hospitals, in big cities and small cities,
birth photographers are going back into the OR and they're being welcomed to go back into the OR.
So we want to push the conversation to make some change.
So we're going to, I think, start, I think it would be good to start maybe,
Jen, with kind of our personal history with working in the OR.
(05:03):
And we can talk about Denver because we both started in Denver.
And Jen, when you started, of course, you, you know, had a cesarean section yourself.
And then when you started in, you know, 2013, that timeframe,
what was it like for you in terms of getting back into the OR here in Denver?
It took a few years, actually. My first birth was in 2013, and I think I had,
(05:29):
three or four cesarean births between then and 2015, which was the very first time that I was in the OR.
And that was at Rose, I believe.
And was it Rose? I think it was Rose.
Anyway, I was pregnant with my daughter, my second at the time.
And I just remember thinking, What an incredible experience,
(05:52):
finally being able to be welcomed into the OR with a lot of happiness and excitement
while I was pregnant with my second and being able to kind of relive the birth of Magnolia.
Because in a lot of ways, you really think that you're so far and detached when
you are laying on that table.
The sheet's there, you know, the blue drape is there and you really can't see
(06:15):
what's going on and it feels very far away. And so when I stepped into that
space for the first time, it was really exciting to see that,
you know, you are giving birth.
It's all right there. You just can't see it or feel it. And it's just so different.
But the first birth was twins.
And my client had been laboring all day for a really long time,
(06:36):
was getting tired, but she was just ready to keep going.
And I believe one of the babies was just having a lot of D cells and the doctors
felt like Like it was time to go back in the OR and without any hesitation,
the doctor was like, and you're coming back too. And I was welcomed in.
I was welcomed on the other side of the drape. So I actually was able to photograph
(06:59):
the babies coming out of her body, which was incredible.
And it was the first time skin to skin had been done in that hospital ever. And that was 2015.
And we have photos of that. So it's really cool to see where that has come because
you're in the OR pretty much at every birth all the time when you need to be.
(07:21):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I remember some of the very first cesareans that
I did here in Denver, you know, when I started photographing births,
you know, it was, we got no more than we got yes.
You know, the vast majority of the time we were told, no, you can't go back into the OR. are.
And there was one doctor, and if you live in Colorado, you probably know of this doctor, Dr. Hall.
(07:45):
He is an older, amazing older OB who is one of the last OBs in the Colorado
area to do vaginal breech births willingly for primates, for singleton babies.
And it's not surprising to me in a lot of ways that he is also a doctor that
(08:05):
whenever I was at a birth with him, and if the birth turned into a cesarean,
you know, even if everybody else was saying no,
he would kind of come into the room and look at, you know, the team and say,
you know what, she's going to go back in the OR with us. I want her to go back with us.
And he had such, I think, command and he had such respect within the hospital
that they were kind of just like, okay, I guess she's coming back.
(08:27):
And so it's cool to me, I think in both scenarios that we had the OBs kind of
leading the way and saying like, yes, like we want, we want them to come back into the OR.
And then of course, over the last 10 years that I've been in Denver,
it's been, I think one of the coolest things that I've witnessed going from
no, no, no, to more and more yeses.
(08:50):
And now I've attended cesarean births at every single hospital in the Denver area.
And I go back into the OR probably like once a month, maybe once every other month.
And I, you know, obviously I, I love it because I think it allows me to continue
to tell my client's story.
(09:12):
But most importantly for my clients, like this can be life-changing for them,
you know, having a cesarean section, it's usually not anybody's first choice,
you know, and for some people it's like their last choice.
And it's really devastating to have to go back into the OR.
It can represent a loss of their birth experience to them.
(09:35):
And so being able to say, you know
what, your birth story is still just as valid. It's just as important.
You deserve to see how your body gave birth to your baby.
You deserve to see your baby's first breath because no matter what angle you're
laying at, no matter if there's a clear drape or not, it is really difficult
to see what happens and how your baby is brought into the world.
(09:59):
And by having someone there with a professional camera who knows the rules,
who knows where to put their camera and where not to put their camera,
who isn't going to faint or pass out like a partner might if they stand up and take pictures.
A professional birth photographer can give people the gift of their birth story.
And I think that's incredibly important and something that everybody on that
(10:23):
person's birth team should be advocating for.
So we're lucky in Denver in that for the vast majority of situations and cases,
I am able to go back into the OR.
And a lot of that, I think, has been a lot of work by many people throughout
the community and a lot of positive experiences with doulas and birth photographers,
(10:44):
people coming back in the OR and making the experience better for the client
and not causing any issues.
And so I think that has moved the needle. And then of course,
once you start letting people in, it's really hard.
Every hospital I go to, I say, well, I've been back in the OR here and they can't argue with that.
And so once you start making movements into ORs, it's a lot harder to no longer be granted access.
(11:12):
How are things, though, in Michigan? Because it's different,
right? It is. It's very different.
First, let me ask, how many hospitals do you think in the Denver area have you
attended births in the OR?
Because there are multiple hospitals here, just like there. Right.
I mean, yeah, that's a great question.
(11:32):
I mean, I've been to the University of Colorado. Obviously, we have multiple
locations of the University of Colorado. I've been to those hospitals.
I've been to Rose, which is like kind of the premier baby hospital.
I've been to C-sections in Boulder, at Avista.
I've been in C-sections at Swedish, obviously, with Dr. Hall.
(11:54):
I've been in C-sections at Sky Ridge, which is a big kind of conglomerate Hospital down south.
So I would say probably at least a dozen different hospitals across the like
Metro Colorado, I mean, the Denver Metro area.
So quite a few. And again, really wide, you know, big university hospitals to
(12:16):
small kind of community hospitals and everything in between.
Right. And that's kind of why I was asking, because there is only one hospital
here that allows a second person to go back into the OR.
And they have only done that in the last about year and a half.
It was like, I think, early 2023 when they finally got that approval and everybody
(12:40):
kind of on board and willingly do it.
But when I first moved here, it was kind of a slap in the face to be in Denver
and being welcomed into the OR. And then I.
Coming here and I am spending, you know, 20 hours with a client as both their
doula and their photographer.
And then sometimes we would have to go back into the OR and I was just not able to go.
(13:06):
And not only is it hard for, I mean, it's hard for them,
but it's hard for me as well because I can't continue to provide the care that
I have been providing the whole time, like this big piece when they need a doula
the most, when they need photos the most,
It's just not, it's not, you know, it's not happening or it wasn't happening.
(13:26):
And so the only hospital here that has even ever allowed it,
I guess there's two, is the University of Michigan.
And back in 2019, I was able to get in a couple times before the pandemic.
And like you said, it was based on the OB advocating and seeing that I had been
(13:46):
there with their client for a long time or the amazing nurses that were like,
this is something that the client really wants.
So prior to the pandemic, I was able to get into U of M a couple times.
And then another local hospital, they allowed me to switch out with the dad,
which was difficult, but the mom wanted a few photos. So we were able to do that.
And they felt like they were making a big consideration for that.
(14:10):
Like it was a big deal to have somebody switch out.
And then after the pandemic hit, it was just like a hard no all the time everywhere.
It was because Because of infection or it was because of not enough space or,
you know, really, there was no real reason.
And then in 2022, 2023, the University of Michigan kind of had a lot of input.
(14:33):
Well, what happened was the doulas in the area said, you know,
we aren't we aren't happy with this anymore.
We really need to get back into the OR with our clients. U of M is a great hospital
at allowing for change when the change is brought to them.
And so patients wrote in, doulas wrote in to the hospital, and they had a specific
(14:57):
person that they were writing to,
and she got, I don't know, 20 to 50 letters about how, you know,
clients who had already delivered there or clients who were about to deliver
there wanted their doula or photographer to come back into the OR with them.
And so after they got all of that feedback, they made changes within their policy to allow for that.
(15:20):
And they do it very openly and easy. Like, I mean, I was at a birth in January where they said no.
And I was at a birth in April where they were like, yeah, you're great.
Come on back. It's fine. Everything's fine.
So it was just it was like night and day that shift when it finally happened. And there was no like.
There's not enough space, which was told to us many times, or,
(15:43):
you know, having another person in the space was going to be an added risk.
Like none of that was even considered because probably none of that was really
the real reason anyway, right?
Yes. No, I think that's a, I mean, I think that's a great point.
And it's often the excuse that we get is that there's not enough space in these
ORs. And, you know, every time I hear that, I don't roll my eyes,
(16:06):
but I do want to roll my eyes because there is enough space.
We see students come into the OR all the time.
We see first-year nursing students.
We see first-year medical students come into the OR all the time.
Yes, the OR is obviously, it's not the most spacious room, but they are a lot
bigger than the labor and delivery rooms that we're also allowed access into.
(16:29):
They're a lot bigger than the bathrooms that I stood in.
Yes. Birth photographers and doulas, anyone who works in birth knows how to
do their job in very small spaces and spaces that are much smaller than an operating room.
And so I think that there's usually a list of reasons.
They talk about sterility. They talk about the size of the OR as reasons.
(16:54):
And I think that at the end of the day, we have to push back a little bit.
And I loved your story, Jen, because...
What I heard is that it was a group effort, right? It wasn't just the doulas.
It wasn't just the birth photographers.
It was clients and patients going to the hospital and saying,
(17:16):
this is not working for us anymore.
And I've seen that make the biggest difference in my own personal experiences
as a birth photographer.
In the earlier years where we were getting a lot more no's, what made the biggest
difference was my clients and the patients of the hospital saying, no, I'm sorry.
I'm not going to take that as an answer. There's no reason she can't go back in the OR.
(17:40):
I want to talk to somebody else. And it was my patients who advocated for themselves
that were able to really push
the, I think, and push and change the entire culture because they,
you know, they didn't have a good answer as to why somebody that is trained,
that's professional, that understands birth, that understands the sterile field,
(18:02):
why can't this person come back into the OR?
In many ways, we can be a more trusted, and I say trusted in the sense that
we've seen birth before. We have have seen cesarean births before.
I've had partners come back in the OR and get really queasy and need to sit
down because they're about to pass out.
We're not that same level of risk.
(18:24):
And in many ways, we can kind of help both partner and our clients understand what's happening.
Let the anesthesiologist do their job. Let the surgeons do their job.
The nurses aren't over over there near the patient, usually when the cesarean is happening.
And so it's really, I think, helpful and meaningful to clients,
(18:46):
patients to have someone that they know and that they trust right there next to them, documenting,
explaining, and providing emotional support during what can be a really scary
experience for a lot of people. You know, if you're a nurse.
If you're an OB, you see cesarean sections all the time.
But if you are a patient or a client, this is often your first time or one of
(19:11):
the few times that you are in an operating room like this.
And it's incredibly frightening, even if it's a very normal,
routine cesarean section.
And having your support team there can make such a big difference in patient satisfaction.
And as we all talk about, yes, we want a healthy mom, we want a healthy baby,
but we need to be striving for more.
(19:32):
We need to be striving for patients leaving feeling like their heart,
their soul, their mind, their body, all of that was protected during the birth process.
And a simple yes can make a huge difference for people.
Yeah. What if we say yes? I mean, really, there's so few good reasons to say no.
What if we just say yes and allow families to have what they need in the space
(19:56):
when they need it the most.
And I think that's just, I don't know, the biggest takeaway from all of this
is what if we just started saying yes when families were asking for what they need?
Like how, what if we said yes to a birth that is like good for your mental health,
that's good for your nervous system,
that you can leave the hospital just like you said, feeling like that was a
(20:19):
really great experience rather than feeling like, oh my God,
I never want want to do that again.
Because that's hard. You remember your birth your whole life. That never goes away.
I still think of my oldest daughter's birth and, you know, being scared going into a C-section.
My second daughter's birth was a VBAC. It was still long. It was hard.
(20:40):
But it just didn't have that fear factor of being wheeled into surgery.
And I had actually never even been a patient in the hospital before that time
and wasn't planning on being in the hospital. I was planning an out-of-hospital birth.
So for me, not only was that day like the first time I'd ever been a patient
since my own birth, and it was the first surgery I'd ever had.
(21:02):
I mean, just like you said, it was
scary. It was intense. And you do want somebody. And I want to say, Dr.
Hall was my surgeon that day. You talked about Dr. Hall. He actually was my
surgeon, and he allowed my doula to come back with us.
And I can't even imagine having, not having her in that space.
(21:23):
And he just said, yes, right away. That wasn't a, that wasn't an issue.
And I didn't even know at that time what kind of an issue it was.
Right. Right. I mean, when you think about, you know, for folks that are having
a cesarean section, it's often because, you know, a lot of the reasons,
a lot of the choices, a lot of the things they wanted for their birth didn't
go the way that they planned. Right.
(21:44):
And this is like one way for you to say, okay, I recognize like this is not your plan A.
This was not what you came in here wanting, but I am still going to do everything
that I can to make this experience as close to your original birth plan as possible.
You know, people are investing thousands of dollars in their doulas and their birth photographers.
(22:06):
And I don't think a lot of times nurses or doctors even understand the financial
investment that people are making and having their birth documented.
So you can imagine your birth plan goes sideways.
You're not getting the vaginal birth you had hoped for. And then suddenly the
birth photographer that you'd spent a lot of money and time bonding with this
(22:26):
investment you had made, they're suddenly saying no.
And for a reason that is honestly not, it's not accurate because I mean,
I'm telling you if, if birth photographers like myself, like other birth photographers
are going into ORs all across the country and are not causing sterile issues,
are not causing any kind of big issue,
(22:47):
then there's no good reason why you can't allow a birth photographer or a doula
or for goodness sake, the person's sister to come into the OR.
During COVID, this was so frustrating because they would say things like,
well, the partner can go back.
Sometimes the partner is not the person that the birthing person wants to have
(23:07):
next to them during birth. That's just the reality.
And so, you know, it's really hard. I mean, what are you going to say?
I have to choose, you know, the father of my baby or my sister to go back in the OR.
Maybe the sister is the one that's providing more emotional support.
Maybe the doula, maybe the birth photographer, but they can't say no to the father.
I mean, it's just such a complicated, it puts the birthing person in such a complicated scenario.
(23:31):
And I think just being able to say, yes, you can have the father of the baby,
and then you can also have whatever, whoever, the partner that you,
you know, the person that you want to come in with, you can also come into the OR.
I think it's an easy way to make their birth experience so much better.
It absolutely is. And I just want to say, like, we were kind of talking about,
(23:53):
you know, just saying yes.
And I was like, I had the honor of photographing a maternal assisted cesarean birth here recently.
And that had never been done at this hospital before.
And it's not really done in the United States very often.
(24:13):
And when my client presented it to her OB, her statement to her OB was like, just hear me out.
Don't say no, just hear me out. And instead of, you know, she didn't say no, she said yes.
And she said yes, every step of the way, and made all of this happen for my client who.
(24:34):
Had a really difficult and traumatic first birth and needed a cesarean birth
with her second for a medical reason.
And she allowed her to like be a participant in her own birth,
to have her birth photographed. She was able to see her own birth.
She was able to pull her own baby out and put her own baby on her chest.
And it was all because one doctor said yes and just made it work all across,
(25:00):
you know, with nurses, with anesthesia.
She did all the things that she needed to make it happen for her patient.
And I just think like we need more of that. Like you can make change if you're
a doctor listening, if you're a nurse listening, you can make change in your own hospital right now.
And I think that's just a really important piece of this is just being on board
(25:21):
and recognizing like this is what your client or patient wants.
So making it happen for them is only going to benefit them and you really,
because they're going to be so grateful. They will think about that.
I think about the time, you know, my births were hard, but anytime anybody said yes,
I remember those yeses like, okay, I can have and my doula come back with me
(25:44):
or, you know, my midwife was in my room with the second and Monet and Josh.
And I could have had my daughter there if I wanted, like there were a lot of
yeses that were happening and it was nice to have that.
Absolutely. It makes a difference. You think about that. You know.
And if you are a healthcare professional, like we would really encourage you
to think about the policies at your hospital and ask yourself,
(26:07):
who are these policies serving?
Are they serving the hospital or are they serving the patient?
And I know that anyone that gets into birth, anyone that gets into labor and
delivery, you're doing it because you want to take the best care of these families.
And you want them to walk away with, you know, intact birth experiences and
you want them to feel good about their birth.
And so if you can be the one that starts to question some of the policies at
(26:31):
your hospital, then do it.
We know that, yes, there are some there are some policies that are evidence
based, but a lot of them are not. And why are we still holding on to those?
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, you know, just knowing that, you know,
taking some steps forward is going to snowball into a bigger effort.
(26:51):
I think absolutely that as well. I think it'd be good, Jen, to talk about what
if you are a birth photographer or a doula and you have a situation in which
your client needs a cesarean,
how can you help advocate for going back into the OR?
What are some steps that you can take, how would you handle that situation?
I think the first thing that I tell all of my clients is that the number one
(27:15):
person that's going to make a difference is going to be them.
If they can advocate for their birth, if they can advocate really strongly and
not take no for an answer, that often makes the biggest difference.
That is always the first thing that I say, like I can share,
you know, I can amplify your voice in these moments and I can say what you're
(27:37):
saying, but it's coming from you. And that's really going to make the biggest difference.
And that's how I was able to get into the OR in those very few times before
COVID at U of M where my clients were just like, no, she's been with me for 20 hours.
Like how, how can you not let her continue this process along with us.
(27:57):
And I think that really, I mean, it really did make a huge difference.
Also just sharing like a little bit of like what you've invested into this.
Like my birth photographer costs $2,000.
I really want them there with me. I think that was something that you taught me, Monet.
And I said that to a nurse or something once, and you could see kind of like
(28:21):
Like the light bulb go off like, oh, this is like wedding photography and not
letting your wedding photographer be in the room.
And so she she actually shuffled out of the room and came back in and then changes
were made and it happened.
So, you know, I think just sharing the investment and the commitment.
And like you said, like we've created we've built a relationship with our client.
(28:46):
Like this isn't the first time usually that we're meeting them.
It's definitely not the first time we're talking to them or communicating with them.
We know their wishes. We know what they want.
And so being taken away in that really pivotal time, I think,
is really difficult for clients.
It is. It is. And I don't think people understand, especially if you're seeing,
(29:10):
like we said, dozens and dozens of C-sections all the time.
It really matters. These birth
images help people piece together their story. It can provide closure.
It can provide answers.
It can provide healing.
I had a client recently who was attempting a VBAC.
(29:30):
And after many, many, many hours, She ended back in the OR, but I was able to go back with them.
And I took images and the tears on her face when her baby came out,
her baby cried and was super pink and vibrant right after she was born.
This was not the case with her first baby. it was so powerful.
(29:54):
And she looked at the images and she said, you know what?
I really wanted this VBAC, but at the end of the day, I realized I needed to
come back into the OR to have this healing and redemptive experience.
And these images mean the world to me.
And it was obviously so moving to hear, but I think it really underscores the
(30:16):
importance of letting...
Letting our patients, letting our clients make as many, if not all the decisions
they can about their birth.
This is their story. This is a story they will carry with them for the rest of their lives.
You likely won't remember this in great detail, you know, in the next week,
(30:39):
month, year, but they will.
They'll remember every single moment and giving them the gift of their birth
team and their support team is huge.
When I talk to my clients and when I'm in this situation, there's always three
people that I'm thinking about.
It's the charge nurse, it's the nurse that I'm working with,
it's the OB, and it's the anesthesiologist. And you really have to get all of those people on board.
(31:04):
They say that the anesthesiologist makes the final call and they often do,
but I've seen OBs and I've seen charge nurses step in and alter things for good or for bad.
And so those people need to be on your team too. So it's about being professional. Introduce yourself.
If you can explain that you are a trained professional birth photographer,
(31:24):
that is going to be a lot more reassuring than just some random person they
don't know with a camera.
If you can talk about how you've attended many births and that you are someone
that is very comfortable in the birth space and you understand the sterile field,
using that terminology can help them realize and recognize that you are a professional.
And then, you know, if you've been in cesareans, reference that.
(31:48):
You know, I always tell folks, I've been in dozens, if not hundreds of cesarean
births. I know what I'm doing and I know how to listen to direction.
Some OBs and some teams are really comfortable with you moving throughout the
room and other teams want you
to sit and not really do much besides wait for that drape to come down.
(32:11):
There's a spectrum and I wish that we had full access in every OR,
but we also, we need to be making small steps forward.
So if you get back into the OR, talk to the charge nurse, like ask questions, where can I stand?
What are you all comfortable with? Make sure that you're paying attention and
that you're not like just, you know, randomly moving throughout the room.
(32:31):
Because what we don't want to see happen is people go back into the OR and then
a bad experience or a bad situation happen, and then suddenly everybody loses out, right?
It takes one bad experience to really change decisions by the team.
So I think that is probably like my biggest advice is to make sure that you
(32:52):
connect with all three of those players, the nurses, the OB, the anesthesiologist.
And then if you do go back, really make sure that you are part of that team,
Listen to them, you know, respect their boundaries,
be professional and move, you know, move it forward, not only for yourself,
(33:13):
but for your whole community.
And it's really not that hard to like fluidly move in that space.
I mean, maybe we should briefly even just talk about what that space looks like
if you've never been in the OR so that you can have an understanding of what
you're stepping into if you get into that space.
Space but there's you're generally at the
(33:35):
head of the bed by the person giving
birth and the partner is generally back there
with you usually in a chair and then
they at least on where I'm at the anesthesiologist is right there behind me
and then the nurses are kind of on the sides they have like their little area
on the side and so you're just moving in this very tiny space between like the
(33:57):
right side of your client's head, the left side of their head,
the middle of their head.
And maybe if you can squeeze over, I can sort of get my whole client's body.
But I don't have any other space on the right side at all. No.
And I'm generally kind of doing a dance with the anesthesiologist and they're
really pretty good about it. We just talk to each other.
(34:21):
It's been a really lovely experience in the last year just because everybody
is so on board. This is it's just policy.
So this is just what they do. And they're really fine with it.
It's been, it's been really good.
And I've noticed the younger anesthesiologists are, the more they can kind of
see the value in what we're offering because they are having children at that age too.
(34:45):
And they're like, oh, wait, yeah, you can see how my wife might want pictures
of this or my partner might want pictures of this.
So I do think that that's, I just think with the younger I mean,
we've been doing this for 10 years.
We have this whole new generation of anesthesiologists, nurses,
and people who see the value in documenting their lifestyle.
(35:09):
And, you know, I, you know, I, I think that there's, it's worth having the conversation
too, because, you know, you see these beautiful and we share them and sometimes
we take them these really beautiful C-section images where you're able to get like,
you know, document every moment of the surgery.
And some providers aren't comfortable with that, you know, and you need to ask
(35:29):
questions like, don't be afraid to say, Hey, like, when are you okay with me
photographing? And some providers might say, I'm okay with you photographing the entire time.
And others might say, I'd prefer for you to wait until the baby gets out.
I did a cesarean section at the University of Colorado, and they were very on
board with me going back into the OR.
(35:50):
But then once we got back there, they had a resident doing the surgery.
And I think she was relatively young or maybe in her first couple years of residency.
And the assisting doctor was like, you know what? but like, I don't want you
to photograph until the baby's out.
And of course, I wish I would have been able to photograph the entire thing.
(36:10):
But again, it's all about like, let's respect their boundaries,
you know, push back when we need to push back, but also understand that it is
surgery. This is surgery that they're doing.
And it is, you know, something that they're very confident and comfortable doing.
But if you're a new resident, you might not have that confidence yet.
And so let's be respectful as much as possible. Let's give our clients the best
(36:34):
experience that we can while also working in a space that is, you know, it is surgery.
It is an operation and we have to keep that in mind. You know,
there's a drape that's gonna be up.
And you can, you know, I often will hold my camera up and shoot down,
but I'm never holding my camera over the drape, right?
So the drape, but my camera is always staying on the side of the patient,
(36:58):
myself, the partner, the anesthesiologist.
So make sure that you're not ever moving your camera over that blue drape.
That will get you into a lot of trouble really quickly.
And again, moving around, you know, it's not the same as being in a labor and
delivery room where you can kind of move around quickly and freely,
you really often are kind of in that back area.
(37:21):
And occasionally you'll have a provider and a nurse that will say,
yeah, you can come around this way.
But I think that's honestly the exception and not the norm.
And so I would not walk in that direction without making eye contact and getting
verbal approval that you're allowed to go on that side of the drape.
Yes, absolutely. And I think you kind of brought up, like being respectful.
(37:44):
Let's just like talk about that for a minute, because I feel like sometimes
hospital staff maybe thinks that we're not going to be respectful or not going
to get out of the way or not understand, you know, an emergency situation.
And that's just not the case. I mean, if anybody, you know, says anything like,
well, I need you to move, this is important.
Of course, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to do whatever they
(38:07):
tell me to do in the moment, because that's what I would do in any situation
if it's an emergency situation.
And I just feel like maybe that is something that needs to be said, because...
I don't know. Maybe it does, though, at this point. I agree, Jen.
And I think sometimes there is a lack of understanding of how much skill and
(38:30):
training and dedication birth photography takes.
It is not a hobby, mainly because it is so difficult to be on call.
It is so demanding to be on call. The people that are choosing this line of
work are one of, I think, some of the smartest.
Brightest, most intelligent people that I know because we're balancing so much.
(38:54):
We're balancing young call 24-7.
We're balancing really disparate birth situations.
We're balancing clients that we go from one birth where we're in the OR to the
next birth, we're at a home birth.
Like we're going in these really wide, disparate, you know, birth situations
where we're doing all of this.
(39:14):
And we're also carrying like really expensive camera equipment and,
you know, working with really difficult lighting situations.
So all of that to say is that we know what we're doing and we are,
we are very willing and able to listen to directions. And we also understand
the birth process really well.
I can tell when there's an emergency, I can sense it in the room. I can feel it.
(39:37):
And we are the first ones to step back, to help, to offer support.
We are not there to get in the way. We are not there to make it about ourselves.
We are always going into births with our clients at the center of that story,
not our own selves, not our pictures, not our photographs.
(39:59):
It's the client and the client's experience. And so we're doing everything we
can to keep that sacred and to protect that space.
And the whole, our whole job is really observing what is happening.
And so we're very in tune to what is happening.
I mean, I can see the shift in the nurse's face if something is happening or
(40:20):
that look that the nurse maybe gives the OB in that moment or whatever.
We know, and most of us are doulas. I think the last time we polled our groups,
we found that over 50% of birth photographers are trained doulas.
So, you know, these are birth workers. Like we are going into this space knowing birth and wanting to be.
(40:44):
In the birth space all the time, because that's literally our job.
Like, absolutely. That's what we're doing. Absolutely.
Yeah. And I mean, I would love to, it would be really cool, Jen,
to kind of pull our community and get a list of all the hospitals across the U.S.
Maybe to start with, but all the hospitals that are or have allowed photography back in the O.R.
(41:08):
Because it would be really, I think, a really cool resource to show hospitals
that maybe weren't doing that to say, well, hey, take a look at this list.
They're going to recognize those hospitals. They probably have colleagues from
medical school that are practicing at the University of Michigan or the University of Colorado.
And that might make them think, well, wait a second. If there's literally hundreds
(41:29):
of hospitals on this list, then maybe us saying no is no longer the status quo.
Maybe we are kind of behind the times right now.
And so I think it It would be cool to compile that because I know that change is happening.
I hear about it in doula groups. I hear about it in our own community.
(41:51):
More and more people are getting access back into the OR.
And these images and that support can be so life-changing for these patients and for these clients.
And it's worth fighting for.
It's worth it really is. And if you are in a community where it is a struggle,
(42:11):
then yes, obviously in the moment, have your client advocate,
but then start doing some advocacy within your community.
Get people to write letters, get doula groups to set up meetings, do some groundwork.
Do the groundwork for it. Or you're in the situation where your client needs
(42:32):
a cesarean, but start making, pushing, I think, the conversation.
And making these hospitals really consider some of these outdated policies because they're outdated.
That's what simply what they are. They're outdated and not serving anybody at this point.
Exactly. And having a list helps all of these patients across the country be
(42:56):
able to look at the list and say,
okay, I could go to this hospital, but this hospital lets my doula or my photographer
back if I have to go in for a C-section.
So I'm going to make this choice. And we are seeing that 100% here.
This is, the University of Michigan is one hospital that is doing this.
There are probably, I would say, 20 hospitals within one hour radius of U of M.
(43:22):
And people choose hospitals based on where they live, but people will drive
to U of M for water births and people will drive to U of M for this.
And if these other hospitals don't get on board, they're going to see,
you know, that shift. I have absolutely no doubt that they will see a shift
in their client. Absolutely.
I mean, we saw that happen in Denver. It was like, okay, if this hospital is
(43:46):
doing it, we're going to this hospital because there are so many hospitals like
you can choose between Sky Ridge and Castle Rock if you live anywhere in there.
And so if Castle Rock is allowing it and Sky Ridge is not, they either get on
board or they lose out on clientele.
So and I think that's I mean, it was.
(44:06):
Obvious when it was happening in Denver. So I really hope that we start seeing that here.
Absolutely. I'm like, if you can't tell, it's something that I just really passionate about.
I just think it's so important, both as a, you know, a patient myself who went
through this, who like, didn't feel like they were part of their birth experience.
And had I had photos and I probably could have had them, my doula was allowed in.
(44:31):
We just didn't think of a lot of those things in the moment.
It was just very kind of rushed and not well thought out. So,
I just think what a difference, you know, that would have made for me rather
than, you know, just hearing people have a conversation about their day.
And here I am trying to like have a baby and have a birth and have an experience.
(44:53):
So I just I think it makes the biggest difference.
And it blows my mind that like 12 years later, we're kind of still doing the
same thing as we were doing then.
I mean, even 10 years ago. Right. Like that's really 10, 11 years ago is when I got into birth.
It's the same thing. It's the same kind of fight. And I'm glad to see that it's
(45:15):
finally shifting in other areas.
And hopefully it continues. Hopefully it continues. Yeah.
And we'll definitely, the Birth Becomes You team will work on
compiling that list of hospitals across the country because
I do think it would be a really good resource and a way to hopefully get these
hospitals that are refusing to budge to start to think like maybe we need to
(45:36):
change our policy to better reflect what patients deserve and what they're asking
for during this time. So, yeah.
And, you know, just so people know, like in our birth becomes you,
we have an essence of birth training where we've trained, you know,
hundreds of birth photographers and we, you know, we have a nurse come in and
talk about the sterile field and we, you know, talk about what it's like to go in the OR.
(45:58):
We are trained professionals. We are not coming in there to,
to compromise anyone's safety. We're there to document our clients' most important
day, the day that they meet their baby.
And everyone deserves images of that if they want them, no matter if you're
giving birth at home, if you're giving birth in the hospital in a labor and
(46:24):
delivery room, or if you're giving birth in the OR. are.
We all deserve to have everything that we, you know, everything that we can
safely have by the birth of our babies. Yeah, exactly.
Well, do we want to talk really briefly about a when would you go?
Because I have one that's kind of interesting and maybe it's,
(46:44):
we'll see. I don't know. We'll go with this.
So we talked about my maternal assisted birth today. And so we're going going
to talk about that. So I'll give you the backstory.
The client had a planned cesarean birth scheduled so that all of this could
happen right around 39 weeks.
So when did I go to that birth, Monet? Any ideas?
(47:10):
Oh, goodness. Well, I, I know a little bit about the story.
So I feel like, but I feel like you'd probably be able to say,
well, you'll go at either 39 weeks or when they call you in labor.
I, I honestly, like I'm pretty lucky and like probably my luck will change,
but most of my scheduled C-sections do happen on their scheduled date.
(47:32):
So I am not getting many, like I'm in labor early calls, but of course I'm sure
that will all change now that I've said that out loud.
But I would guess that you got a call earlier to go into it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And that was really the concern, right, is that all of the team wouldn't be
able to be there because this was scheduled.
(47:53):
This was scheduled with very specific people, nurses, anesthesiologists, everything.
So, of course, my client's water broke a week before, maybe I think it was 10
days before her scheduled cesarean birth.
And it broke in the middle of the night because that's when we go into labor, right?
So she called me kind of in tears at like 1 or 2 a.m.
(48:16):
I'm really sorry my water broke. And I was like, you know, you don't have to
be sorry. This is what I do. Like, this is literally what I do.
So we all went and she was able to have part of her team, including her OB there.
She called her OB and her OB came in. And then it just so happened that like
the right people were on shift and anybody else just said yes,
(48:40):
because they made it happen.
And so that is kind of how it worked out.
She had a great birth, but it all happened, you know, before it was planned,
not on the scheduled date and all of it still happened without a hitch.
So So all of that to say it can be done. It can be done even if it's not scheduled.
(49:02):
Birth happens when it happens. And so you have to be ready to change and shift
when that happens. So absolutely.
I love that story. Yeah. And, you know, I think it like just speaks to like
the beauty of like, what if you just say yes?
Like, what if as a provider you say, yes, like, this is something that's really important to you.
(49:24):
We're going to do everything in our power to make it happen,
especially something that is really as, you know, safe as just having a trained
birth professional come into the OR and stand next to the partner.
This is not something that's super risky.
This is not something that's super, you know, in my mind, dangerous.
It's not going to, you know...
(49:47):
Yeah. It's not going to impact the providers that much.
If anything, it's going to make the client and the patient have a much better birth experience.
And I know that's what we all want deep down. So just say yes.
Just say yes. Yeah. And we're going to share a link in the notes and on our
(50:08):
website podcast page, which is birthbecomesyou.com slash podcast.
But we're We're going to share a slideshow with photos taken by other photographers, me, in the OR.
And this was actually something that I created for a birth art exhibit.
But it's all about being asked to come into the OR and providers just saying
(50:36):
yes and how it has made my clients feel and how their birth experiences have
felt different because of that shift. So we'll include that as well.
Love it. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for being here.
Thank you for dealing. I had kids screaming during this.
So thank you for understanding. I didn't hear the kids at all. Oh, good.
(50:56):
Well, I was like over here having like panic attacks as they were.
I think Ryan actually took them out of the house because it was getting a little out of hand.
But thank you for your patience with any weird noise artifacts.
But we're so grateful for our community and for you listening.
And we would love for you to reach out to us via email or on socials.
(51:19):
If you have a topic suggestion or if you want to come on to the podcast,
we can't wait to continue to do this with you.
Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
Thanks for tuning in. Find out more about us, our courses, and other tools for
birth photography at birthbecomesyou.com.
And make sure to follow Follow along on Instagram and Facebook at Birth Becomes You.
(51:43):
And if you love listening, make sure to give us five stars on Apple Podcasts
and subscribe wherever you listen.
Thanks. Catch you on the flip side.
Hi, Jen. Hi, Monet. How are you? I'm good. We're in the middle of summer break here.
So as you can imagine, we have kids at home and we are recording and sometimes
like less than optimal situation.
So right now, all four of my kids are upstairs and I've told them to be quiet,
but hopefully we won't have too many noise interruptions. But if you hear something
(00:23):
falling or a child screeching.
Don't be alarmed. It's just my kids.
And yeah, we're super excited to be chatting together today.
Absolutely. And my little kids are home too. And we also have a very loud puppy.
So you're going to hear some stuff today for sure. Lots of noise.
Jen and I were joking and said we wish that we could record these podcasts while
(00:46):
we were both on our walks.
We often walk and talk together, which allows us to get away from the craziness
of home and have some quiet at
time, but obviously it's not the most ideal podcast recording situation,
but maybe one day we will just record our phone calls because that's often when
we have the best conversations.
But yeah, we're going to go ahead and start chatting about our topic today.
(01:10):
And we are so glad all of you are listening.
It's been super exciting and wonderful to receive all of the feedback and the emails.
We're so glad that so many of you have followed us and we can't wait to share more.
Yeah, it's been really fun to hear all of the feedback for sure.
Especially since it's so personal, like these were our birth stories and people
(01:31):
have commented on those. And I don't know, I've just, I really enjoyed it.
We really like waited so long to finally do this and I'm excited to finally
be doing it. So yeah, me too.
Hi, it's Monet and Jen and we are the co-founders of Birth Becomes You.
We are birth photographers and doulas with over 10 years of experience.
We've attended over 1,000 births collectively.
(01:54):
We started Birth Becomes You to create a safe space for new and experienced
birth photographers to share and grow. We aim to.
Empower birth workers to feel confident in the birth space and take beautiful
world-changing images.
We believe in a world where birth is visible, where shame is absent,
where fear is translated to power, and where each individual's experience is
(02:17):
honored as valid and valued.
We are so glad you're here and we can't wait to learn and connect with you.
We are so glad that you joined us for the debut of our podcast.
And to thank our first listeners, we are offering an an exclusive promotion
of 25% off any item in the shop through the end of July, so through July 31st.
(02:40):
To redeem it, you can go to birthbecomesyou.com and click on the shop in our
menu and use promo code PODCAST25 at checkout.
That's promo code PODCAST25 when you check out.
We have tons of items in the shop that include toolkits and contracts for birth photographers,
(03:06):
toolkits for new birth photographers to teach you how to photograph your own
birth and step into the birth space for the very first time.
We also have presets, we have mentoring, we have a whole host of things.
So head on over to our shop at birthbecomesyou.com and you use code podcast25
at checkout. Thank you so much.
(03:29):
All right. So we are excited to talk about this topic today.
It's one that's like near and dear to my heart.
And we're going to talk to you more about why birth photographers should be allowed in the OR.
Absolutely. In every hospital, always. Always. Yes.
We firmly believe that it's, you know, 2024 and it is time for this to be the
(03:54):
norm and not the exception.
And I know that some of you listening are living in communities where it is
the norm and you do go back into the OR frequently.
And we know that there are others of you that are listening that you never get
back into the OR and you have been fighting for years.
So we want to acknowledge the wide spectrum.
(04:15):
And for those who are working in birth, maybe as labor and delivery nurses,
as midwives, as OBs, we want to talk about the differences across the country,
because I think sometimes when you work in a hospital system,
it can be so insular and all you really know or see or hear about is what's
happening in your hospital.
And we want to bring awareness and say that, yes, like all across the country
(04:39):
at all different types of hospitals, in big cities and small cities,
birth photographers are going back into the OR and they're being welcomed to go back into the OR.
So we want to push the conversation to make some change.
So we're going to, I think, start, I think it would be good to start maybe,
Jen, with kind of our personal history with working in the OR.
(05:03):
And we can talk about Denver because we both started in Denver.
And Jen, when you started, of course, you, you know, had a cesarean section yourself.
And then when you started in, you know, 2013, that timeframe,
what was it like for you in terms of getting back into the OR here in Denver?
It took a few years, actually. My first birth was in 2013, and I think I had,
(05:29):
three or four cesarean births between then and 2015, which was the very first time that I was in the OR.
And that was at Rose, I believe.
And was it Rose? I think it was Rose.
Anyway, I was pregnant with my daughter, my second at the time.
And I just remember thinking, What an incredible experience,
(05:52):
finally being able to be welcomed into the OR with a lot of happiness and excitement
while I was pregnant with my second and being able to kind of relive the birth of Magnolia.
Because in a lot of ways, you really think that you're so far and detached when
you are laying on that table.
The sheet's there, you know, the blue drape is there and you really can't see
(06:15):
what's going on and it feels very far away. And so when I stepped into that
space for the first time, it was really exciting to see that,
you know, you are giving birth.
It's all right there. You just can't see it or feel it. And it's just so different.
But the first birth was twins.
And my client had been laboring all day for a really long time,
(06:36):
was getting tired, but she was just ready to keep going.
And I believe one of the babies was just having a lot of D cells and the doctors
felt like Like it was time to go back in the OR and without any hesitation,
the doctor was like, and you're coming back too. And I was welcomed in.
I was welcomed on the other side of the drape. So I actually was able to photograph
(06:59):
the babies coming out of her body, which was incredible.
And it was the first time skin to skin had been done in that hospital ever. And that was 2015.
And we have photos of that. So it's really cool to see where that has come because
you're in the OR pretty much at every birth all the time when you need to be.
(07:21):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I remember some of the very first cesareans that
I did here in Denver, you know, when I started photographing births,
you know, it was, we got no more than we got yes.
You know, the vast majority of the time we were told, no, you can't go back into the OR. are.
And there was one doctor, and if you live in Colorado, you probably know of this doctor, Dr. Hall.
(07:45):
He is an older, amazing older OB who is one of the last OBs in the Colorado
area to do vaginal breech births willingly for primates, for singleton babies.
And it's not surprising to me in a lot of ways that he is also a doctor that
(08:05):
whenever I was at a birth with him, and if the birth turned into a cesarean,
you know, even if everybody else was saying no,
he would kind of come into the room and look at, you know, the team and say,
you know what, she's going to go back in the OR with us. I want her to go back with us.
And he had such, I think, command and he had such respect within the hospital
that they were kind of just like, okay, I guess she's coming back.
(08:27):
And so it's cool to me, I think in both scenarios that we had the OBs kind of
leading the way and saying like, yes, like we want, we want them to come back into the OR.
And then of course, over the last 10 years that I've been in Denver,
it's been, I think one of the coolest things that I've witnessed going from
no, no, no, to more and more yeses.
(08:50):
And now I've attended cesarean births at every single hospital in the Denver area.
And I go back into the OR probably like once a month, maybe once every other month.
And I, you know, obviously I, I love it because I think it allows me to continue
to tell my client's story.
(09:12):
But most importantly for my clients, like this can be life-changing for them,
you know, having a cesarean section, it's usually not anybody's first choice,
you know, and for some people it's like their last choice.
And it's really devastating to have to go back into the OR.
It can represent a loss of their birth experience to them.
(09:35):
And so being able to say, you know
what, your birth story is still just as valid. It's just as important.
You deserve to see how your body gave birth to your baby.
You deserve to see your baby's first breath because no matter what angle you're
laying at, no matter if there's a clear drape or not, it is really difficult
to see what happens and how your baby is brought into the world.
(09:59):
And by having someone there with a professional camera who knows the rules,
who knows where to put their camera and where not to put their camera,
who isn't going to faint or pass out like a partner might if they stand up and take pictures.
A professional birth photographer can give people the gift of their birth story.
And I think that's incredibly important and something that everybody on that
(10:23):
person's birth team should be advocating for.
So we're lucky in Denver in that for the vast majority of situations and cases,
I am able to go back into the OR.
And a lot of that, I think, has been a lot of work by many people throughout
the community and a lot of positive experiences with doulas and birth photographers,
(10:44):
people coming back in the OR and making the experience better for the client
and not causing any issues.
And so I think that has moved the needle. And then of course,
once you start letting people in, it's really hard.
Every hospital I go to, I say, well, I've been back in the OR here and they can't argue with that.
And so once you start making movements into ORs, it's a lot harder to no longer be granted access.
(11:12):
How are things, though, in Michigan? Because it's different,
right? It is. It's very different.
First, let me ask, how many hospitals do you think in the Denver area have you
attended births in the OR?
Because there are multiple hospitals here, just like there. Right.
I mean, yeah, that's a great question.
(11:32):
I mean, I've been to the University of Colorado. Obviously, we have multiple
locations of the University of Colorado. I've been to those hospitals.
I've been to Rose, which is like kind of the premier baby hospital.
I've been to C-sections in Boulder, at Avista.
I've been in C-sections at Swedish, obviously, with Dr. Hall.
(11:54):
I've been in C-sections at Sky Ridge, which is a big kind of conglomerate Hospital down south.
So I would say probably at least a dozen different hospitals across the like
Metro Colorado, I mean, the Denver Metro area.
So quite a few. And again, really wide, you know, big university hospitals to
(12:16):
small kind of community hospitals and everything in between.
Right. And that's kind of why I was asking, because there is only one hospital
here that allows a second person to go back into the OR.
And they have only done that in the last about year and a half.
It was like, I think, early 2023 when they finally got that approval and everybody
(12:40):
kind of on board and willingly do it.
But when I first moved here, it was kind of a slap in the face to be in Denver
and being welcomed into the OR. And then I.
Coming here and I am spending, you know, 20 hours with a client as both their
doula and their photographer.
And then sometimes we would have to go back into the OR and I was just not able to go.
(13:06):
And not only is it hard for, I mean, it's hard for them,
but it's hard for me as well because I can't continue to provide the care that
I have been providing the whole time, like this big piece when they need a doula
the most, when they need photos the most,
It's just not, it's not, you know, it's not happening or it wasn't happening.
(13:26):
And so the only hospital here that has even ever allowed it,
I guess there's two, is the University of Michigan.
And back in 2019, I was able to get in a couple times before the pandemic.
And like you said, it was based on the OB advocating and seeing that I had been
(13:46):
there with their client for a long time or the amazing nurses that were like,
this is something that the client really wants.
So prior to the pandemic, I was able to get into U of M a couple times.
And then another local hospital, they allowed me to switch out with the dad,
which was difficult, but the mom wanted a few photos. So we were able to do that.
And they felt like they were making a big consideration for that.
(14:10):
Like it was a big deal to have somebody switch out.
And then after the pandemic hit, it was just like a hard no all the time everywhere.
It was because Because of infection or it was because of not enough space or,
you know, really, there was no real reason.
And then in 2022, 2023, the University of Michigan kind of had a lot of input.
(14:33):
Well, what happened was the doulas in the area said, you know,
we aren't we aren't happy with this anymore.
We really need to get back into the OR with our clients. U of M is a great hospital
at allowing for change when the change is brought to them.
And so patients wrote in, doulas wrote in to the hospital, and they had a specific
(14:57):
person that they were writing to,
and she got, I don't know, 20 to 50 letters about how, you know,
clients who had already delivered there or clients who were about to deliver
there wanted their doula or photographer to come back into the OR with them.
And so after they got all of that feedback, they made changes within their policy to allow for that.
(15:20):
And they do it very openly and easy. Like, I mean, I was at a birth in January where they said no.
And I was at a birth in April where they were like, yeah, you're great.
Come on back. It's fine. Everything's fine.
So it was just it was like night and day that shift when it finally happened. And there was no like.
There's not enough space, which was told to us many times, or,
(15:43):
you know, having another person in the space was going to be an added risk.
Like none of that was even considered because probably none of that was really
the real reason anyway, right?
Yes. No, I think that's a, I mean, I think that's a great point.
And it's often the excuse that we get is that there's not enough space in these
ORs. And, you know, every time I hear that, I don't roll my eyes,
(16:06):
but I do want to roll my eyes because there is enough space.
We see students come into the OR all the time.
We see first-year nursing students.
We see first-year medical students come into the OR all the time.
Yes, the OR is obviously, it's not the most spacious room, but they are a lot
bigger than the labor and delivery rooms that we're also allowed access into.
(16:29):
They're a lot bigger than the bathrooms that I stood in.
Yes. Birth photographers and doulas, anyone who works in birth knows how to
do their job in very small spaces and spaces that are much smaller than an operating room.
And so I think that there's usually a list of reasons.
They talk about sterility. They talk about the size of the OR as reasons.
(16:54):
And I think that at the end of the day, we have to push back a little bit.
And I loved your story, Jen, because...
What I heard is that it was a group effort, right? It wasn't just the doulas.
It wasn't just the birth photographers.
It was clients and patients going to the hospital and saying,
(17:16):
this is not working for us anymore.
And I've seen that make the biggest difference in my own personal experiences
as a birth photographer.
In the earlier years where we were getting a lot more no's, what made the biggest
difference was my clients and the patients of the hospital saying, no, I'm sorry.
I'm not going to take that as an answer. There's no reason she can't go back in the OR.
(17:40):
I want to talk to somebody else. And it was my patients who advocated for themselves
that were able to really push
the, I think, and push and change the entire culture because they,
you know, they didn't have a good answer as to why somebody that is trained,
that's professional, that understands birth, that understands the sterile field,
(18:02):
why can't this person come back into the OR?
In many ways, we can be a more trusted, and I say trusted in the sense that
we've seen birth before. We have have seen cesarean births before.
I've had partners come back in the OR and get really queasy and need to sit
down because they're about to pass out.
We're not that same level of risk.
(18:24):
And in many ways, we can kind of help both partner and our clients understand what's happening.
Let the anesthesiologist do their job. Let the surgeons do their job.
The nurses aren't over over there near the patient, usually when the cesarean is happening.
And so it's really, I think, helpful and meaningful to clients,
(18:46):
patients to have someone that they know and that they trust right there next to them, documenting,
explaining, and providing emotional support during what can be a really scary
experience for a lot of people. You know, if you're a nurse.
If you're an OB, you see cesarean sections all the time.
But if you are a patient or a client, this is often your first time or one of
(19:11):
the few times that you are in an operating room like this.
And it's incredibly frightening, even if it's a very normal,
routine cesarean section.
And having your support team there can make such a big difference in patient satisfaction.
And as we all talk about, yes, we want a healthy mom, we want a healthy baby,
but we need to be striving for more.
(19:32):
We need to be striving for patients leaving feeling like their heart,
their soul, their mind, their body, all of that was protected during the birth process.
And a simple yes can make a huge difference for people.
Yeah. What if we say yes? I mean, really, there's so few good reasons to say no.
What if we just say yes and allow families to have what they need in the space
(19:56):
when they need it the most.
And I think that's just, I don't know, the biggest takeaway from all of this
is what if we just started saying yes when families were asking for what they need?
Like how, what if we said yes to a birth that is like good for your mental health,
that's good for your nervous system,
that you can leave the hospital just like you said, feeling like that was a
(20:19):
really great experience rather than feeling like, oh my God,
I never want want to do that again.
Because that's hard. You remember your birth your whole life. That never goes away.
I still think of my oldest daughter's birth and, you know, being scared going into a C-section.
My second daughter's birth was a VBAC. It was still long. It was hard.
(20:40):
But it just didn't have that fear factor of being wheeled into surgery.
And I had actually never even been a patient in the hospital before that time
and wasn't planning on being in the hospital. I was planning an out-of-hospital birth.
So for me, not only was that day like the first time I'd ever been a patient
since my own birth, and it was the first surgery I'd ever had.
(21:02):
I mean, just like you said, it was
scary. It was intense. And you do want somebody. And I want to say, Dr.
Hall was my surgeon that day. You talked about Dr. Hall. He actually was my
surgeon, and he allowed my doula to come back with us.
And I can't even imagine having, not having her in that space.
(21:23):
And he just said, yes, right away. That wasn't a, that wasn't an issue.
And I didn't even know at that time what kind of an issue it was.
Right. Right. I mean, when you think about, you know, for folks that are having
a cesarean section, it's often because, you know, a lot of the reasons,
a lot of the choices, a lot of the things they wanted for their birth didn't
go the way that they planned. Right.
(21:44):
And this is like one way for you to say, okay, I recognize like this is not your plan A.
This was not what you came in here wanting, but I am still going to do everything
that I can to make this experience as close to your original birth plan as possible.
You know, people are investing thousands of dollars in their doulas and their birth photographers.
(22:06):
And I don't think a lot of times nurses or doctors even understand the financial
investment that people are making and having their birth documented.
So you can imagine your birth plan goes sideways.
You're not getting the vaginal birth you had hoped for. And then suddenly the
birth photographer that you'd spent a lot of money and time bonding with this
(22:26):
investment you had made, they're suddenly saying no.
And for a reason that is honestly not, it's not accurate because I mean,
I'm telling you if, if birth photographers like myself, like other birth photographers
are going into ORs all across the country and are not causing sterile issues,
are not causing any kind of big issue,
(22:47):
then there's no good reason why you can't allow a birth photographer or a doula
or for goodness sake, the person's sister to come into the OR.
During COVID, this was so frustrating because they would say things like,
well, the partner can go back.
Sometimes the partner is not the person that the birthing person wants to have
(23:07):
next to them during birth. That's just the reality.
And so, you know, it's really hard. I mean, what are you going to say?
I have to choose, you know, the father of my baby or my sister to go back in the OR.
Maybe the sister is the one that's providing more emotional support.
Maybe the doula, maybe the birth photographer, but they can't say no to the father.
I mean, it's just such a complicated, it puts the birthing person in such a complicated scenario.
(23:31):
And I think just being able to say, yes, you can have the father of the baby,
and then you can also have whatever, whoever, the partner that you,
you know, the person that you want to come in with, you can also come into the OR.
I think it's an easy way to make their birth experience so much better.
It absolutely is. And I just want to say, like, we were kind of talking about,
(23:53):
you know, just saying yes.
And I was like, I had the honor of photographing a maternal assisted cesarean birth here recently.
And that had never been done at this hospital before.
And it's not really done in the United States very often.
(24:13):
And when my client presented it to her OB, her statement to her OB was like, just hear me out.
Don't say no, just hear me out. And instead of, you know, she didn't say no, she said yes.
And she said yes, every step of the way, and made all of this happen for my client who.
(24:34):
Had a really difficult and traumatic first birth and needed a cesarean birth
with her second for a medical reason.
And she allowed her to like be a participant in her own birth,
to have her birth photographed. She was able to see her own birth.
She was able to pull her own baby out and put her own baby on her chest.
And it was all because one doctor said yes and just made it work all across,
(25:00):
you know, with nurses, with anesthesia.
She did all the things that she needed to make it happen for her patient.
And I just think like we need more of that. Like you can make change if you're
a doctor listening, if you're a nurse listening, you can make change in your own hospital right now.
And I think that's just a really important piece of this is just being on board
(25:21):
and recognizing like this is what your client or patient wants.
So making it happen for them is only going to benefit them and you really,
because they're going to be so grateful. They will think about that.
I think about the time, you know, my births were hard, but anytime anybody said yes,
I remember those yeses like, okay, I can have and my doula come back with me
(25:44):
or, you know, my midwife was in my room with the second and Monet and Josh.
And I could have had my daughter there if I wanted, like there were a lot of
yeses that were happening and it was nice to have that.
Absolutely. It makes a difference. You think about that. You know.
And if you are a healthcare professional, like we would really encourage you
to think about the policies at your hospital and ask yourself,
(26:07):
who are these policies serving?
Are they serving the hospital or are they serving the patient?
And I know that anyone that gets into birth, anyone that gets into labor and
delivery, you're doing it because you want to take the best care of these families.
And you want them to walk away with, you know, intact birth experiences and
you want them to feel good about their birth.
And so if you can be the one that starts to question some of the policies at
(26:31):
your hospital, then do it.
We know that, yes, there are some there are some policies that are evidence
based, but a lot of them are not. And why are we still holding on to those?
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And, you know, just knowing that, you know,
taking some steps forward is going to snowball into a bigger effort.
(26:51):
I think absolutely that as well. I think it'd be good, Jen, to talk about what
if you are a birth photographer or a doula and you have a situation in which
your client needs a cesarean,
how can you help advocate for going back into the OR?
What are some steps that you can take, how would you handle that situation?
I think the first thing that I tell all of my clients is that the number one
(27:15):
person that's going to make a difference is going to be them.
If they can advocate for their birth, if they can advocate really strongly and
not take no for an answer, that often makes the biggest difference.
That is always the first thing that I say, like I can share,
you know, I can amplify your voice in these moments and I can say what you're
(27:37):
saying, but it's coming from you. And that's really going to make the biggest difference.
And that's how I was able to get into the OR in those very few times before
COVID at U of M where my clients were just like, no, she's been with me for 20 hours.
Like how, how can you not let her continue this process along with us.
(27:57):
And I think that really, I mean, it really did make a huge difference.
Also just sharing like a little bit of like what you've invested into this.
Like my birth photographer costs $2,000.
I really want them there with me. I think that was something that you taught me, Monet.
And I said that to a nurse or something once, and you could see kind of like
(28:21):
Like the light bulb go off like, oh, this is like wedding photography and not
letting your wedding photographer be in the room.
And so she she actually shuffled out of the room and came back in and then changes
were made and it happened.
So, you know, I think just sharing the investment and the commitment.
And like you said, like we've created we've built a relationship with our client.
(28:46):
Like this isn't the first time usually that we're meeting them.
It's definitely not the first time we're talking to them or communicating with them.
We know their wishes. We know what they want.
And so being taken away in that really pivotal time, I think,
is really difficult for clients.
It is. It is. And I don't think people understand, especially if you're seeing,
(29:10):
like we said, dozens and dozens of C-sections all the time.
It really matters. These birth
images help people piece together their story. It can provide closure.
It can provide answers.
It can provide healing.
I had a client recently who was attempting a VBAC.
(29:30):
And after many, many, many hours, She ended back in the OR, but I was able to go back with them.
And I took images and the tears on her face when her baby came out,
her baby cried and was super pink and vibrant right after she was born.
This was not the case with her first baby. it was so powerful.
(29:54):
And she looked at the images and she said, you know what?
I really wanted this VBAC, but at the end of the day, I realized I needed to
come back into the OR to have this healing and redemptive experience.
And these images mean the world to me.
And it was obviously so moving to hear, but I think it really underscores the
(30:16):
importance of letting...
Letting our patients, letting our clients make as many, if not all the decisions
they can about their birth.
This is their story. This is a story they will carry with them for the rest of their lives.
You likely won't remember this in great detail, you know, in the next week,
(30:39):
month, year, but they will.
They'll remember every single moment and giving them the gift of their birth
team and their support team is huge.
When I talk to my clients and when I'm in this situation, there's always three
people that I'm thinking about.
It's the charge nurse, it's the nurse that I'm working with,
it's the OB, and it's the anesthesiologist. And you really have to get all of those people on board.
(31:04):
They say that the anesthesiologist makes the final call and they often do,
but I've seen OBs and I've seen charge nurses step in and alter things for good or for bad.
And so those people need to be on your team too. So it's about being professional. Introduce yourself.
If you can explain that you are a trained professional birth photographer,
(31:24):
that is going to be a lot more reassuring than just some random person they
don't know with a camera.
If you can talk about how you've attended many births and that you are someone
that is very comfortable in the birth space and you understand the sterile field,
using that terminology can help them realize and recognize that you are a professional.
And then, you know, if you've been in cesareans, reference that.
(31:48):
You know, I always tell folks, I've been in dozens, if not hundreds of cesarean
births. I know what I'm doing and I know how to listen to direction.
Some OBs and some teams are really comfortable with you moving throughout the
room and other teams want you
to sit and not really do much besides wait for that drape to come down.
(32:11):
There's a spectrum and I wish that we had full access in every OR,
but we also, we need to be making small steps forward.
So if you get back into the OR, talk to the charge nurse, like ask questions, where can I stand?
What are you all comfortable with? Make sure that you're paying attention and
that you're not like just, you know, randomly moving throughout the room.
(32:31):
Because what we don't want to see happen is people go back into the OR and then
a bad experience or a bad situation happen, and then suddenly everybody loses out, right?
It takes one bad experience to really change decisions by the team.
So I think that is probably like my biggest advice is to make sure that you
(32:52):
connect with all three of those players, the nurses, the OB, the anesthesiologist.
And then if you do go back, really make sure that you are part of that team,
Listen to them, you know, respect their boundaries,
be professional and move, you know, move it forward, not only for yourself,
(33:13):
but for your whole community.
And it's really not that hard to like fluidly move in that space.
I mean, maybe we should briefly even just talk about what that space looks like
if you've never been in the OR so that you can have an understanding of what
you're stepping into if you get into that space.
Space but there's you're generally at the
(33:35):
head of the bed by the person giving
birth and the partner is generally back there
with you usually in a chair and then
they at least on where I'm at the anesthesiologist is right there behind me
and then the nurses are kind of on the sides they have like their little area
on the side and so you're just moving in this very tiny space between like the
(33:57):
right side of your client's head, the left side of their head,
the middle of their head.
And maybe if you can squeeze over, I can sort of get my whole client's body.
But I don't have any other space on the right side at all. No.
And I'm generally kind of doing a dance with the anesthesiologist and they're
really pretty good about it. We just talk to each other.
(34:21):
It's been a really lovely experience in the last year just because everybody
is so on board. This is it's just policy.
So this is just what they do. And they're really fine with it.
It's been, it's been really good.
And I've noticed the younger anesthesiologists are, the more they can kind of
see the value in what we're offering because they are having children at that age too.
(34:45):
And they're like, oh, wait, yeah, you can see how my wife might want pictures
of this or my partner might want pictures of this.
So I do think that that's, I just think with the younger I mean,
we've been doing this for 10 years.
We have this whole new generation of anesthesiologists, nurses,
and people who see the value in documenting their lifestyle.
(35:09):
And, you know, I, you know, I, I think that there's, it's worth having the conversation
too, because, you know, you see these beautiful and we share them and sometimes
we take them these really beautiful C-section images where you're able to get like,
you know, document every moment of the surgery.
And some providers aren't comfortable with that, you know, and you need to ask
(35:29):
questions like, don't be afraid to say, Hey, like, when are you okay with me
photographing? And some providers might say, I'm okay with you photographing the entire time.
And others might say, I'd prefer for you to wait until the baby gets out.
I did a cesarean section at the University of Colorado, and they were very on
board with me going back into the OR.
(35:50):
But then once we got back there, they had a resident doing the surgery.
And I think she was relatively young or maybe in her first couple years of residency.
And the assisting doctor was like, you know what? but like, I don't want you
to photograph until the baby's out.
And of course, I wish I would have been able to photograph the entire thing.
(36:10):
But again, it's all about like, let's respect their boundaries,
you know, push back when we need to push back, but also understand that it is
surgery. This is surgery that they're doing.
And it is, you know, something that they're very confident and comfortable doing.
But if you're a new resident, you might not have that confidence yet.
And so let's be respectful as much as possible. Let's give our clients the best
(36:34):
experience that we can while also working in a space that is, you know, it is surgery.
It is an operation and we have to keep that in mind. You know,
there's a drape that's gonna be up.
And you can, you know, I often will hold my camera up and shoot down,
but I'm never holding my camera over the drape, right?
So the drape, but my camera is always staying on the side of the patient,
(36:58):
myself, the partner, the anesthesiologist.
So make sure that you're not ever moving your camera over that blue drape.
That will get you into a lot of trouble really quickly.
And again, moving around, you know, it's not the same as being in a labor and
delivery room where you can kind of move around quickly and freely,
you really often are kind of in that back area.
(37:21):
And occasionally you'll have a provider and a nurse that will say,
yeah, you can come around this way.
But I think that's honestly the exception and not the norm.
And so I would not walk in that direction without making eye contact and getting
verbal approval that you're allowed to go on that side of the drape.
Yes, absolutely. And I think you kind of brought up, like being respectful.
(37:44):
Let's just like talk about that for a minute, because I feel like sometimes
hospital staff maybe thinks that we're not going to be respectful or not going
to get out of the way or not understand, you know, an emergency situation.
And that's just not the case. I mean, if anybody, you know, says anything like,
well, I need you to move, this is important.
Of course, that's exactly what I'm going to do. I'm going to do whatever they
(38:07):
tell me to do in the moment, because that's what I would do in any situation
if it's an emergency situation.
And I just feel like maybe that is something that needs to be said, because...
I don't know. Maybe it does, though, at this point. I agree, Jen.
And I think sometimes there is a lack of understanding of how much skill and
(38:30):
training and dedication birth photography takes.
It is not a hobby, mainly because it is so difficult to be on call.
It is so demanding to be on call. The people that are choosing this line of
work are one of, I think, some of the smartest.
Brightest, most intelligent people that I know because we're balancing so much.
(38:54):
We're balancing young call 24-7.
We're balancing really disparate birth situations.
We're balancing clients that we go from one birth where we're in the OR to the
next birth, we're at a home birth.
Like we're going in these really wide, disparate, you know, birth situations
where we're doing all of this.
(39:14):
And we're also carrying like really expensive camera equipment and,
you know, working with really difficult lighting situations.
So all of that to say is that we know what we're doing and we are,
we are very willing and able to listen to directions. And we also understand
the birth process really well.
I can tell when there's an emergency, I can sense it in the room. I can feel it.
(39:37):
And we are the first ones to step back, to help, to offer support.
We are not there to get in the way. We are not there to make it about ourselves.
We are always going into births with our clients at the center of that story,
not our own selves, not our pictures, not our photographs.
(39:59):
It's the client and the client's experience. And so we're doing everything we
can to keep that sacred and to protect that space.
And the whole, our whole job is really observing what is happening.
And so we're very in tune to what is happening.
I mean, I can see the shift in the nurse's face if something is happening or
(40:20):
that look that the nurse maybe gives the OB in that moment or whatever.
We know, and most of us are doulas. I think the last time we polled our groups,
we found that over 50% of birth photographers are trained doulas.
So, you know, these are birth workers. Like we are going into this space knowing birth and wanting to be.
(40:44):
In the birth space all the time, because that's literally our job.
Like, absolutely. That's what we're doing. Absolutely.
Yeah. And I mean, I would love to, it would be really cool, Jen,
to kind of pull our community and get a list of all the hospitals across the U.S.
Maybe to start with, but all the hospitals that are or have allowed photography back in the O.R.
(41:08):
Because it would be really, I think, a really cool resource to show hospitals
that maybe weren't doing that to say, well, hey, take a look at this list.
They're going to recognize those hospitals. They probably have colleagues from
medical school that are practicing at the University of Michigan or the University of Colorado.
And that might make them think, well, wait a second. If there's literally hundreds
(41:29):
of hospitals on this list, then maybe us saying no is no longer the status quo.
Maybe we are kind of behind the times right now.
And so I think it It would be cool to compile that because I know that change is happening.
I hear about it in doula groups. I hear about it in our own community.
(41:51):
More and more people are getting access back into the OR.
And these images and that support can be so life-changing for these patients and for these clients.
And it's worth fighting for.
It's worth it really is. And if you are in a community where it is a struggle,
(42:11):
then yes, obviously in the moment, have your client advocate,
but then start doing some advocacy within your community.
Get people to write letters, get doula groups to set up meetings, do some groundwork.
Do the groundwork for it. Or you're in the situation where your client needs
(42:32):
a cesarean, but start making, pushing, I think, the conversation.
And making these hospitals really consider some of these outdated policies because they're outdated.
That's what simply what they are. They're outdated and not serving anybody at this point.
Exactly. And having a list helps all of these patients across the country be
(42:56):
able to look at the list and say,
okay, I could go to this hospital, but this hospital lets my doula or my photographer
back if I have to go in for a C-section.
So I'm going to make this choice. And we are seeing that 100% here.
This is, the University of Michigan is one hospital that is doing this.
There are probably, I would say, 20 hospitals within one hour radius of U of M.
(43:22):
And people choose hospitals based on where they live, but people will drive
to U of M for water births and people will drive to U of M for this.
And if these other hospitals don't get on board, they're going to see,
you know, that shift. I have absolutely no doubt that they will see a shift
in their client. Absolutely.
I mean, we saw that happen in Denver. It was like, okay, if this hospital is
(43:46):
doing it, we're going to this hospital because there are so many hospitals like
you can choose between Sky Ridge and Castle Rock if you live anywhere in there.
And so if Castle Rock is allowing it and Sky Ridge is not, they either get on
board or they lose out on clientele.
So and I think that's I mean, it was.
(44:06):
Obvious when it was happening in Denver. So I really hope that we start seeing that here.
Absolutely. I'm like, if you can't tell, it's something that I just really passionate about.
I just think it's so important, both as a, you know, a patient myself who went
through this, who like, didn't feel like they were part of their birth experience.
And had I had photos and I probably could have had them, my doula was allowed in.
(44:31):
We just didn't think of a lot of those things in the moment.
It was just very kind of rushed and not well thought out. So,
I just think what a difference, you know, that would have made for me rather
than, you know, just hearing people have a conversation about their day.
And here I am trying to like have a baby and have a birth and have an experience.
(44:53):
So I just I think it makes the biggest difference.
And it blows my mind that like 12 years later, we're kind of still doing the
same thing as we were doing then.
I mean, even 10 years ago. Right. Like that's really 10, 11 years ago is when I got into birth.
It's the same thing. It's the same kind of fight. And I'm glad to see that it's
(45:15):
finally shifting in other areas.
And hopefully it continues. Hopefully it continues. Yeah.
And we'll definitely, the Birth Becomes You team will work on
compiling that list of hospitals across the country because
I do think it would be a really good resource and a way to hopefully get these
hospitals that are refusing to budge to start to think like maybe we need to
(45:36):
change our policy to better reflect what patients deserve and what they're asking
for during this time. So, yeah.
And, you know, just so people know, like in our birth becomes you,
we have an essence of birth training where we've trained, you know,
hundreds of birth photographers and we, you know, we have a nurse come in and
talk about the sterile field and we, you know, talk about what it's like to go in the OR.
(45:58):
We are trained professionals. We are not coming in there to,
to compromise anyone's safety. We're there to document our clients' most important
day, the day that they meet their baby.
And everyone deserves images of that if they want them, no matter if you're
giving birth at home, if you're giving birth in the hospital in a labor and
(46:24):
delivery room, or if you're giving birth in the OR. are.
We all deserve to have everything that we, you know, everything that we can
safely have by the birth of our babies. Yeah, exactly.
Well, do we want to talk really briefly about a when would you go?
Because I have one that's kind of interesting and maybe it's,
(46:44):
we'll see. I don't know. We'll go with this.
So we talked about my maternal assisted birth today. And so we're going going
to talk about that. So I'll give you the backstory.
The client had a planned cesarean birth scheduled so that all of this could
happen right around 39 weeks.
So when did I go to that birth, Monet? Any ideas?
(47:10):
Oh, goodness. Well, I, I know a little bit about the story.
So I feel like, but I feel like you'd probably be able to say,
well, you'll go at either 39 weeks or when they call you in labor.
I, I honestly, like I'm pretty lucky and like probably my luck will change,
but most of my scheduled C-sections do happen on their scheduled date.
(47:32):
So I am not getting many, like I'm in labor early calls, but of course I'm sure
that will all change now that I've said that out loud.
But I would guess that you got a call earlier to go into it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
And that was really the concern, right, is that all of the team wouldn't be
able to be there because this was scheduled.
(47:53):
This was scheduled with very specific people, nurses, anesthesiologists, everything.
So, of course, my client's water broke a week before, maybe I think it was 10
days before her scheduled cesarean birth.
And it broke in the middle of the night because that's when we go into labor, right?
So she called me kind of in tears at like 1 or 2 a.m.
(48:16):
I'm really sorry my water broke. And I was like, you know, you don't have to
be sorry. This is what I do. Like, this is literally what I do.
So we all went and she was able to have part of her team, including her OB there.
She called her OB and her OB came in. And then it just so happened that like
the right people were on shift and anybody else just said yes,
(48:40):
because they made it happen.
And so that is kind of how it worked out.
She had a great birth, but it all happened, you know, before it was planned,
not on the scheduled date and all of it still happened without a hitch.
So So all of that to say it can be done. It can be done even if it's not scheduled.
(49:02):
Birth happens when it happens. And so you have to be ready to change and shift
when that happens. So absolutely.
I love that story. Yeah. And, you know, I think it like just speaks to like
the beauty of like, what if you just say yes?
Like, what if as a provider you say, yes, like, this is something that's really important to you.
(49:24):
We're going to do everything in our power to make it happen,
especially something that is really as, you know, safe as just having a trained
birth professional come into the OR and stand next to the partner.
This is not something that's super risky.
This is not something that's super, you know, in my mind, dangerous.
It's not going to, you know...
(49:47):
Yeah. It's not going to impact the providers that much.
If anything, it's going to make the client and the patient have a much better birth experience.
And I know that's what we all want deep down. So just say yes.
Just say yes. Yeah. And we're going to share a link in the notes and on our
(50:08):
website podcast page, which is birthbecomesyou.com slash podcast.
But we're We're going to share a slideshow with photos taken by other photographers, me, in the OR.
And this was actually something that I created for a birth art exhibit.
But it's all about being asked to come into the OR and providers just saying
(50:36):
yes and how it has made my clients feel and how their birth experiences have
felt different because of that shift. So we'll include that as well.
Love it. Yeah. Well, thank you guys for being here.
Thank you for dealing. I had kids screaming during this.
So thank you for understanding. I didn't hear the kids at all. Oh, good.
(50:56):
Well, I was like over here having like panic attacks as they were.
I think Ryan actually took them out of the house because it was getting a little out of hand.
But thank you for your patience with any weird noise artifacts.
But we're so grateful for our community and for you listening.
And we would love for you to reach out to us via email or on socials.
(51:19):
If you have a topic suggestion or if you want to come on to the podcast,
we can't wait to continue to do this with you.
Thank you. Thank you. Bye.
Thanks for tuning in. Find out more about us, our courses, and other tools for
birth photography at birthbecomesyou.com.
And make sure to follow Follow along on Instagram and Facebook at Birth Becomes You.
(51:43):
And if you love listening, make sure to give us five stars on Apple Podcasts
and subscribe wherever you listen.
Thanks. Catch you on the flip side.
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