Episode 02: Common Arts Victoria (Jamie, Terry, Narelle, & Bek)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stevan (00:00):
Welcome everyone to the Bonzaar Podcast, a podcast show about
the burner culture and its localizedcommunities in the Asia Pacific region.
My name is Stevan Lay orsilent disco on the paddock.
I'd like to begin by acknowledging thetraditional owners of country throughout
Australia and New Zealand, and we atthe Bonzaar Podcast acknowledges the
continuing connection to land, waters,and community, and we pay our respects to

(00:24):
the elders past, present, and emerging.
So for this following episode, we thoughtwe hit over to Melbourne Victoria and
take a closer look at emerging arts andcommunity space that was formed by a
bunch of burners situated in Melbourne.
Now, I do recall there were talksonline in 2018 or 2019 Yeah.

(00:44):
About co-creating a Victorianarts community, and I was invited
to this private group page onFacebook and I, yeah, yeah.
I remembered saying something snarkylike, is everyone real in this group?
Because you know, Facebook at the timewas known to have plenty of bots and
fake accounts, which it still does.
I know.

(01:05):
3.1 billion monthly active news, eh?
So it turns out, fortunately everyonein the group chat, everyone in the
group was for realz and serious aboutbuilding a community and arts culture
from the ground up on a farming paddock.
Pretty much though Melbourne based.
So let me quickly, I'll quicklysay something about Melbourne.
For those who haven't visited beforebeing a Sydney sider, the best thing

(01:26):
about Melbourne or the best thing tocome outta Melbourne is the Hume Highway.
No, but seriously, uh, Melbourneis a great city to visit, really.
It has a unique tram system,fourth largest in the world.
Apparently Melbourne has a passionatesporting culture, hosting big events.
It seems like the city shuts downon a Saturday for the A FL or footy.

(01:46):
They have the Formula One GrandPrix, the Aussie Open Tennis, and a
statewide public holiday for horserace called the Melbourne Cup.
It's very multicultural, has thesenarrow lanes and alleyways with murals
and street graffiti, beautiful botanicgardens, and it gets voted as the most
livable city perennially, even thoughit's known for its unpredictable weather.

(02:07):
So that's debatable and has apopulation of around 6 million people.
So with that number of people,uh, more localized, Vic Burn.
Makes sense.
And in 2025, though, still in itsinfancy, we have an emerging arts
community space and a new burnevent to add to the calendar.
Now, before we get into the conversationwith jc, who is the current president

(02:28):
of Common Art Victoria, there'salso T-Rex Terry, who is the vice
chair or vice president, and we arealso joined by Narelle and Bekah.
Uh, we do have.
We do have to apologize upfrontabout the poor audio quality
and sound due to technical andconnection issues for this episode,
particularly towards the end there.
But there's still plenty of valuableinformation about co-creating

(02:49):
a community arts and culturalspace from the grassroots level.
And please do stick around atthe end for the outro segment.
Where We chinwag some more and where wedebrief this episode and share with you
information on upcoming burn events, howto get involved in a bonzaar podcast,
and a preview of the next episode.
Okay, here's a chat with Cavi.

(03:09):
Enjoy.
A big bonzaar.
Welcome to everybody.
Uh, this episode will focuson Common Art Victoria.
Uh, its background, its organization, andof course, Underland With me, I've jc I've
got Narre and Terry, how you guys going?

Narelle (03:23):
Doing well, frankly, Stevan.
Yeah.

Terry (03:25):
Very well.
Thanks for having us.

Stevan (03:27):
Yeah.
I, um, appreciate you guys allgetting together this, it's
been, uh, uh, silly seasons afterNew Year's and, and Christmas.
So what I wanna talk aboutfirst is everyone's background.
How did all get involvedin the Burner community?
Uh, and, and then also how did you getinvolved in forming Common Arts Victoria?

Terry (03:43):
How did I get involved in the Burner community?
So there's a bit of astory to this for me.
I don't remember what year it was.
It's gotta probably be
2010 ish is my guess,or around, around that.
I built this crazy contraption inMelbourne in, uh, my spare room in, I
was living in Fitzroy North at the time.

(04:05):
Spare room backyard created this crazycontraption, it was called Hobo hifi.
It was a shopping trolley sound system.
This escalated as it does.
I've had speakers all theway around this thing.
I ended up buying a shoppingtrolley, so it was actually legit.
Had about 250 amp power seallead acid battery on it.
It was motorized 'causeit was too heavy to push.

(04:26):
I used to take it down to EdinburghGardens in uh Fitzroy North, uh,
often got up to a lot of mischief,got a bit of a reputation, also used
to take it all around protests andstreet parties and all this stuff.
Had a fantastic couple years with it.
Anyway, one time, I mean, I'm pretty sureit was Edinburgh Gardens, it may have
been some other, other random happening.
And this girl comes up to me and says,starts talking to me and goes, I think

(04:50):
we, we talked before and everything.
And she says to me, you have to,have you heard a burning man?
And I said, no.
Um, and she goes, well, youhave to come to this thing.
You, you need to meet these people.
Uh, so she invited me alongto, I had no idea what it was.
I think maybe I'd had heard a burning man.

(05:10):
I can't remember.
It was a long time ago.
Can't remember if I hearda burning man or not.
But if I had, it was reallyon the, on the fringes.
Uh, so I, I just built cool shit.
I had fun, uh, and whatever.
And, uh, so she invited me to this thingand it ended up being a, uh, I met some
of the guys that started burning seed.
Um, I went to a meetup that they werehaving at the Footscray Footscray art

(05:36):
space or maker space or something.
There was an art community inFootscray down on the river.
I. And I met with some of the peoplethere, and we sort of, uh, I was brought
up to speed of what they're trying to do.
They were trying to startup, uh, burning seed.
I think it had a night.
It was, they hadn't had the first event.
It was pre Matong pre burning seed.
They had a few gatherings.

(05:58):
And, uh, got to know these people.
I realized I had a great vision.
I wanted to do something.
I realized what was gonna beinvolved in coming to this.
I think they'd found Matong, but theyhadn't actually run an event there.
So I helped with, um, we hada pre compression, uh, party.
There's a fundraiser to try to help,uh, get burning seed off the ground.

(06:19):
Um, went to that and then I realized thatfor me to execute the vision that I had
at the time about, uh, creating art ona paddock, it's like, Hey, what is this?
How do I get involved?
It's like, oh, this is gonna costa lot more money than I planned.
So I ended up, uh, disappearingoff the scene, off the burner
scene for a little while.
Um, change jobs andall that sort of stuff.
And then, um, reappeared andstarted going to burning seed,

(06:42):
uh, and snowballed from there.
Uh, ended up doing that for many years.
Uh, multiple art installations.
Uh, effigies rolled on into, uh, becominginvolved with this lovely crew at Common
Arts Victoria and putting on Underland.

Stevan (06:56):
Mm. So so you were spotted.
So you were spotted and someone said thatyou were great for, for this community.
Yeah.
And, and you connected through arts?

Terry (07:04):
Yeah, and I connected through arts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it was really ing having, havingseen that, like having someone
identify that creative streak inme, just going, Hey, this is a
community that you need to come to.

Stevan (07:17):
Yeah, that's right.
Yes, yes.
You, you, you are meant for it.
You are meant for it.
Yeah.
And Narelle, uh, were you also spotted,did someone also like approach you
and said, well, you, you are perfect,perfect fit for it, for this community
and the people around it as well?

Narelle (07:28):
Absolutely not.
Which is great.
Yeah, yeah.
No, absolutely not.
So I had a misspent youth.
It was fantastic.
I spent a lot of time in the late, uh,probably actually the early nineties,
um, underground race scene in Sydney.
Uh, had a ball, uh, grew up a littlebit, had a little person that's now

(07:52):
a very big person, and friends ofmine had posted their photographs
from Burning Man on Facebook.
And I'm like, I've got a 18-year-old now.
Um, I'm ready to get a bit crazy again.
And really philosophical, ideal.

(08:12):
Burning, you know, radicalself-expression, uh, radical inclusion.
And that was probably the one thatI really picked up on the most.
I had to look for it here in Australia.
I found burning seed.
They were calling for volunteers.
I don't consider myself to be anyexceptionally artistic slash creative
human being, but I really do enjoycommunity and I've volunteered in

(08:37):
a whole lot of other organizations.
Um, so I thought, fuck it, why not?
I'll give this a go.
And I'm so glad that I did.
I volunteered with DPI for BurningSeed and, and that got me in, so

Stevan (08:51):
around what year was this here?

Narelle (08:53):
I'm still trucking along.
Still probably.
Uh, so this would'vebeen 2015 still engaged.
And I think it's really great becauseyou don't actually have to consider
yourself to be a particularly artistichuman being, to actually be involved
and find a space where you can beproductive and give some input in.

Stevan (09:15):
Yeah, that's right.
So how did you get started with,uh, common Arts Victoria Narelle?
How'd you get involved?

Narelle (09:20):
So, yeah, so that's a really, really good, um, question.
I had heard rumblings, I had donesome of my own personal research on
the organizational structure, um,that didn't sit well within me, and I
absolutely jumped at the opportunity.
A burning event that was communitybased from the ground up.

(09:44):
It really spoke to me that common artis a registered not-for-profit, uh, I'm
sorry, and, and incorporated associationwhere the members have complete
involvement with our organization.
And that was something that wasreally important to me to see.
Um, as I said, I had been involvedin other community organizations

(10:07):
that run along these lines.
Um, and so there was a fire in methat wanted to see it completely
operated by a volunteer organizationwith high levels of transparency.
So I started off on the veryfirst engagement phone calls
and have been here ever since.

Stevan (10:26):
Was this 20 19 20?

Narelle (10:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stevan (10:29):
2020 I think it was.

Narelle (10:30):
Uh, so 20, I think it was mid 2019.
We started with when theorganization was formed.

Stevan (10:35):
Is that right, Terry?

Terry (10:36):
Um, it was formed during COVID, uh, from memory.
Um, so because there was about three years

Narelle (10:42):
COVID Yeah.

Terry (10:43):
Of, yeah.
So yeah, it was kind about three yearsof, of discussion and nothing happening,
um, due to, due to COVID and sort,kind of allowed us a bit of planning.
I think the, the first camp out, uh, atTony's place in, um, wherever it was, was.
2019, there was a break in the COVIDlockdowns and we managed to get out there.

(11:06):
And I think

Stevan (11:07):
that was 20, it would've been 20, 20 something like April.
Yeah.
Back in April, 2020, maybe.

Terry (11:13):
Not sure.
I could have a look through the photos.

Narelle (11:15):
The, the discussions about the organ, the discussions had started well
before the first camp out, um, with justa, a generic call out to the community.
Yeah.

Stevan (11:25):
And can we talk quickly about the, the structure?
Like, uh, what's your currentroles now with Common Arts?
Victoria, jc uh, are you back?

Jamie (11:32):
Yeah.
Yeah, I'm here.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
Yeah, I'll do my, my, I guessmy introduction and how I end
up being, uh, absorbed into theburner community here in Australia.
Yeah.
So for me, it happened back in 2018,um, and it came through a lovely,
wonderful Tinder date as it happened.
Um, and I met, yeah, I met an incrediblyamazing and beautiful person, and

(11:55):
she introduced me to burning seed.
Uh, I'd sort of, I'd been involvedin various festivals and events and
parties and warehouse raves and stufflike that for the past 20 years.
Um, sort of in, in Glasgow, Scotland,in the uk, and then a little bit up in,
in Brisbane when I came to Australia.
Um, but I'd never been to a burn.
I knew about Burning Man.

(12:15):
Um, never really appealed to me, butthe, you know, the format of a burn.
Just once I found out about it, becamesomething that I, I really enjoyed
and really sort of sung out to me.
Um, and I think it's, uh, the bestformat I've come across for, uh, an
artistic expression, uh, type festival.
So yeah, I went alongto the 2018 burn seed.

(12:36):
I volunteered and helped out withthe scratch crew, uh, which is
the, the huge L-G-B-T-Q-I crew.
And yeah, I went from there, met awesomepeople, had a blast, blew my mind.
And then after that I went and worked atthe Decom party at series, uh, on the bar.
And I come from hospitality, so Iended up just rampage the bar, met
a couple of people, guy Alan, John,um, in particular and Justin McGhee.

(13:02):
And yeah.
So from there they very quicklystarted tapping me and saying
that I should get involved more.
And yeah, 2019 rolled round Iput my hand up to join DPI, uh,
'cause yeah, had a guy, Pauly,um, who was running DPI that year.
I met him at the Decomm partyand I joined on as his two IC and

Stevan (13:22):
I think he dropped out.
Okay.

Jamie (13:24):
Uh, sorry, am i back.

Stevan (13:26):
Yep, you're back.
Cool.
Thanks.

Jamie (13:27):
Yeah, apologies about that.
My phone keeps going to standby.
I'll keep an eye on it better.
Um, so yeah, I went to 2019 as,uh, on the DPI crew to IC and
was still on site for five weeks.
And it was quite the experienceand that yeah, it was, it was full
on, but it was, it was amazing.
It really was one of my fondestuh, memories, civic memories
and experiences that I've had.

(13:49):
And yeah, so that was 2019.
And then of course, yeah, COVID happened.
Mm-hmm.
Um, also, you know, born and Sea wassort of going through its, um, a lengthy
progress of its own changes and stuff.
And I actually was on the TownCouncil for about six months as
well, at the end of 2019 into 2020.
And yeah, that was a, aninteresting experience.
And yeah, early 2020 I gottapped by Justin McGhee.

(14:12):
Um, he said to me about the,you know, desire and potential
formation of the Vic Burn.
Uh, which is now Underland, andif I wanted to join, uh, the
board and be a founding member.
And so I did and joined on.
Um, and just to go back the, we got ourcertificate of our corporation, um, which

(14:33):
started on the 7th of February, 2021.
Just to go back and clarify that.

Stevan (14:37):
Hmm.

Jamie (14:37):
Uh, we had the camp out at Tony Ma...'s place, uh, in
September, I think it was, uh, 2020.
Um, so we'd been discussing itas a sort of founded members
for several months during 2020.
And the lockdowns and the lockdownsactually, uh, in my opinion, helped
because it, it gave us time to reallyfocus on the organizational structure and,

(14:57):
you know, how we wanted to structure it.
And, you know, eventually we gotto be an incorporation rather
than a co-op, for example.
So that was, that was that.
And yeah, then I sort of naturally tookon the role following on from, from DPI,
uh, doing the Vic Burns version Yeah.
Of DPI, um, which ended up, uh, Ilike called it SPAM, which stands for

(15:19):
site planning and maintenance, justas a bit of a, you know, fun, hearty
little look at the, uh, the, the, thesite run and site management stuff.
And yeah.
So that was, that, that was, that washow I got involved was originally through
a tender date, which was pretty cool.

Stevan (15:34):
Yeah.
You, you, you mentioned the,the, uh, during the pandemic, the
recalibration that we had and time off.
I think that was very important.
Um.
Did you, did you guyshave anything to burn?
Did you have an effigy orsomething at the, at the camp out?
Did you burn anything?

Jamie (15:49):
Yeah, totally.
I reckon, uh, Terry's probablythe best to talk about that.

Terry (15:51):
Yeah.
So, um, the camp out was,um, at Tony's, Tony's place.
Um, and he was connected to us via Glenn.
Now, Glen, Glenn.
Todd, he's been heavily involved in, um, alot of the effigies and a lot of the art.
He kind of kicked off the whole art burnconcept, which is, um, the pre the, so

(16:13):
you got the Effigy temple and then the onethat happened before that at burning Seed.
Um, so he kicked that off.
I think it was, it kindof seemed like him.
He wanted to build morethings, uh, and open up.
So he, he's been heavily involved in that.
Uh, he connected us to Tony'splace, uh, and while he was there,
he also organized to build a, uh,a, a version of a, of a effigy.

(16:33):
We had this, uh, plague doctor.
Which was, um, probably abouttwo meters high, is my guess.
Um, and he, he had the, a big logthat he found and he actually, uh,
carved it, uh, carved it into a,a plague doctor, like, you know,
period, era smallpox kind of thing.
Um, doctor's nose.
Um, so that was pretty impressiveto, to have him create that

(16:55):
for our little camp out.
I think we had like 30, 40 people.
And yeah, so it was pretty coolto have a, have a, a burn there as
well, even at the, you know, the,the thing that wasn't a thing.
It was just a, a planning, let'sget together and, and camp.
Uh, we even had a burnthen, which was great.

Stevan (17:10):
Cool.
Okay, Bekah, you're next.
Uh, welcome to the podcast.

Bekah (17:13):
Hi.

Stevan (17:14):
What's your backstory and how did you get involved?

Bekah (17:17):
Yeah, uh, so similarly I heard about Burning Man and Burning Man
culture through a, um, dating experience.
And, um, that was whenI was living in Sydney.
I moved to Melbourne in 2012just for a change of scenery.
Um, spent a few years.
Adjusting to the new city.
I had some mental healthissues when I got here too.

(17:38):
But, um, while I was here I was, um,lurking online quite a bit and uh,
you know, I had been doing my, somesnooping around on Facebook and social
media and such things to see what thelocal, um, burn culture was all about.
So I did a bit of lurking and then wentto a few Melbourne parties and, you
know, saw what the local scene was like.

(17:58):
And then in 2017 decided to take abunch of time off from work and went
to the states a couple of times.
And when I was over there Iwent to a regional burn in Ohio.
It was a tri-state burn therecalled Scorch Nuts, which no
longer exists, but it's um,

Stevan (18:13):
that's a funny name.

Bekah (18:14):
Yeah.
And so, and the effigy for that onewas basically a squirrel with sitting
on a pile of nuts, which was great.

Stevan (18:20):
Mm-hmm.

Bekah (18:20):
Um, and I had a really cool time.
Met a lot of people, um,including a ranger who was,
knew a few Australian burners.
And he mentioned to me about modifyre,which was happening, you know, a few
weeks after I got back from that trip.
So I got back from that trip,dragged my brother along to modifyre
and met a few more people from theburning community in Australia.
And then from there, met a. An oldschool burner from the states who'd

(18:44):
been going to the big burn, you know,for pretty much since the beginning.
And he invited me to come andcamp with those guys, which I did.
And then met more people,came back to Australia.
Um, and yeah, so then I startedexploring the other burns.
I went to Blazing Swan after that.
And by the time I got to burning seed,I'd already had a bit of a network

(19:06):
of people from all over the worldand from other parts of Australia.
Um, so that was really coolto rock up and have that.
Um, and then from there I somehowfound out about the Vic Burn thing
that was happening, got invited alongto the camp out, which was really fun.
And, um, thought that the, well,I was interested in the community

(19:29):
engagement side of things and, and justgetting involved a little bit more.
So yeah, reached out to Justin again.
Um, seems to be thelinchpin for all of this.
And, um, said I was keen.
Mm-hmm.
And then from there it became,um, yeah, just got more and more
involved with the engagementside of things and then, so yeah.

Stevan (19:48):
And now you're on the board.

Bekah (19:49):
That's right.
Um, somehow a bit of an accelerationin the last couple of years.

Stevan (19:53):
Congratulations.

Bekah (19:54):
Um, yeah.
Thank you.

Stevan (19:55):
So we quickly talk about, uh, the passing members
as, as well as the new members.
Just acknowledge someof those, these people.

Jamie (20:01):
Yeah, definitely.
Um, I mean, recently, uh, Narelleherself stepped down, um, in she, uh,
and prior to that we had, uh, JustinMcGhee as well, who did the first
couple of years as the president.
But yeah, I think, you know, Narellewould be good to speak to as she's one of
the, the old board members, if you will.
Mm.

Narelle (20:20):
Sorry, I, I, my it glitched out then was there a question?

Jamie (20:23):
Yeah, we're just talking about the previous board members,
um, like yourself, Shaye and Justin.
Um, and yeah, just thought that it'd begood for you to talk about it as well.
Seems as you're one ofthe former board members.

Narelle (20:34):
Absolutely.
Um, I. Have a lot of anxiety and Ichose to go on the board, which was a,
a pretty big and bold move for me to do.
And I'm so glad that I did, I joinedthe board because I strongly believed
that you can't be what you can't see.

(20:55):
And I just, I, I wanted to, to beinvolved in a more constructive
way than being in the background.
And that's really what encouragedme to step up to be on the board.
It's been a really ama ithas, I'm stepped back now.
I did four years on the board andI'm, I'm really proud of that.

(21:16):
I stepped back now and I'm, and I'mreally grateful that be stepped in because
it's really important to see diversityand inclusion happen in real time.
So yeah, that's my story with the board.

Jamie (21:28):
Yeah.
Thank you Narelle.
And I, I just wanna, you know, talk to, toShaye Justin, who were original founding
board members as well as Narelle and yeah,I, I think, you know, a lot of credit
should go to Justin for the amount ofwork that he's done in the background.
You know, from the conversations thatI had with him, um, over the, this
past few years, um, I think burningsort of always been something that he'd

(21:50):
wanted to set up and do and, you know,given what was going on with sort of
burning seeds and then, you know, COVID.
Uh, it really just for him seemedlike the, the, the best time to,
to move forward and implementand, and set up a Victorian burn.
Um, so yeah, a lot of props and shoutout to, to Justin for doing that.
Um, the initial, the initial push for it.

(22:11):
Um, and Shaye as, well, you know,she's a, she's a veteran, really
well known within the community.
Um, highly experienced, um, acrossthe board with things like, you
know, health and safety theme campsinvolved, you know, CocoPocoLoco,
which is a multinational theme camp.
And again, that experience and wisdomthat she brought was, was vital at times.
Um, and yeah, again, props and, andhat off to, to both of them as well.

Stevan (22:36):
And we also got some new members, uh, Toby as well,

Jamie (22:39):
correct?
Yeah, so Toby winter mute, um,he's done a, a double roll step up.
Yes.
Um, so he'd been involved withspam, um, since the, the sort
of first burn slash second burn.
Depend how you look at it.
Uh, James Hawkins place,um, out past the Grampians.
Um, yeah, he was, he was on thespam crew back then and he's

(22:59):
obviously still going strong.
And I, I stepped down from the site lead,uh, site coordinator actually this year,
um, after this, this year's underland.
And he stepped up and into that rolemoving forward, uh, which is excellent.
And he's also stepped onto the boardas well, which is, which is fantastic.

Stevan (23:16):
Yes.
Yes it has.
And Rebekah, your involvement?

Bekah (23:21):
Uh, yeah, so I did center camp lead last year.
Um, just saw that.
There was a need for someenergy and focus on that one.
I think we had a bit more resourcing,um, available, more funding.
So that was great.
And yeah, I got a really nice setuphappening with that big stretch tan
and we got gifted a whole bunch of rugsand um, bits of fabric and yeah, pretty

(23:44):
much the whole thing was done very,very cheaply and it was really fun.
And yeah, I think the, um, steppingup onto the board is a natural
progression through the engagementwork that we've done and center camp.
So yeah,
really happy to be here.
And I was encouraged, um, byJamie and Narelle to step up.
So it was really nice to have theirmentorship and their, um, their support.

(24:08):
'cause it is a bit of a stretch, youknow, you gotta, you stick your neck out,
you become more visible in, in the sceneand, you know, people start messaging
you with all sorts of random suggestionsand opinions and you know, some, and it's
great to have the, that engagement, um,you know, people feeling comfortable to
reach out is really, really important.
Um, but yeah, that, that,that's part, part of the role.

(24:30):
You become that figureheadpeople come to you.

Stevan (24:32):
Yeah.
You guys are well organizedwith your Slack communication.
Uh, let's talk about how, how folks canbecome a member and, and get access to.
To Underland for this year.

Jamie (24:43):
Terry, do you wanna take that one?

Terry (24:44):
Um, I You just talk about like the membership process.
Is that what you're

Stevan (24:47):
mm-hmm.

Terry (24:48):
Yeah, so we decided, well, we've decided that, um, we wanted to
try to avoid, um, one of the pitfallsof larger festivals in that anyone
can just grab a ticket last minuteas they're flying in or, or whatever.
Um, so we really wanted to get a processin place where we can encourage people
to be actually part of the community.

(25:09):
And because it's not just about partying,it's not just about making art, it's
also about community building, uh,and connection in a society that has
trouble connecting with, with each other.
'cause we're so busy and everythingthat's happening, it is about
building that connection.
So we decided to go with a model for, forthat reason as well as the other legal
reasons and, um, you know, not-profitsort of stuff and, and security about,

(25:34):
um, managing to keep an event running.
Uh, we decided to gowith a membership model.
Uh, we started out, initially westarted out as a, uh, $20 membership
fee as a way of raising the initialcapital for us to be able to run,
uh, just the, not the event, justto be able to run the organization.
You know, there's insurance costs and,um, subscription fees and, and whatnot.

(25:56):
So we just needed someway of getting money in.
Uh, we started with,

Stevan (25:58):
I think 20 dollars is fair.

Terry (25:59):
Yeah.
So we started with a,a $20 membership fee.

Stevan (26:02):
Yeah.

Terry (26:02):
Um, and what we ended up finding was that people were really
keen to see the, the, uh, community.
Grow and actually, uh, build,um, and the event, go ahead.
And we actually end up, we've got,we've got a huge member database.
Um, and we've finding that peoplewere actually becoming members and not
actually planning on coming to the event.
You know, maybe they lived overseasor different state, and they kind

(26:25):
of, at a different stage in theirlife, they were never gonna come, but
they really wanted to see it grow.
So they became members and paidtheir membership fee, which was
fantastic, and allowed us toactually get off the ground and grow.
However, with the, the multi-step processof becoming a member, paying your,
your fee, then once that's done, thenyou get, uh, a invite to buy a ticket.

(26:48):
It was just lots of steps.
So we wanted to try to streamline thata little bit because there were lots of
hoops to jump through and it could takeup to two weeks to, you know, go from,
Hey, I want to come become a member, doall this stuff and actually buy a ticket.
So we have streamlined that.
Um, we could probably still dosome technical streamlining.
Uh, however, I think it's nice.
Uh, so when I say technical streamlining,I mean, um, more efficient ways to buy

(27:12):
ticket, uh, and all that sort of stuff.
But I think we're pretty happywith the membership model.
Uh, it means that people haveto buy in to the community, at
least in a tokenistic level.
Um, they're not able to justgo, Hey, let's just buy a
ticket and go and not care.
Um, they have to, there's that little,that little barrier to entry, which,

(27:34):
um, uh, seems to mean that people.
Have to jump through that firstbefore they can buy a ticket.
And it can't, it's workingto build that community.
So, I mean, the, the process now is we'vegot a, it's, we're gonna rebuild it to
make it a bit better, but basically youfill in the form, uh, on our website, uh,
the membership gets approved by the, uh,the board, and then you'll get an email

(27:57):
out with, um, information about that.
So long term, what we're looking atis, uh, because Common Arts Victoria
was created in, in a sense thatwe're more than just, uh, one event.
We want to create a membership base anda community that we can do one event,
multiple events, art fundraisers, allthis sort of stuff throughout the year.

(28:18):
So if you're a membership, you're buyinginto that community, not just the event.

Stevan (28:22):
Right?
Yeah.
So there'll be several, severalengagement activities for you to
also attend and, and get involved

Terry (28:28):
eventually.
Yes.
At the moment, we, we still, uh,underland is, is our flagship event.
Um, we are creating a vehicle.
The common arts is, is the vehiclefor us to do multiple things.
And it, it's in the name right?
Common Common Arts Victoria.
It's about connecting through arts andencouraging creation and creativity
throughout the entire state, notjust running an event on a paddock.

(28:51):
That does some cool shit.
Um, so it really is about that communitybuilding, um, and c community building
and community building through art.
Um mm-hmm.
So it would be fantastic.
It's, you know, the, the multi-yeardream of, of having underland maybe a,
a local event and using the fundraising,sorry, using the money from those things

(29:13):
to then put on other skill building.
Skill sharing, yes.
Community connectionthings throughout the year.

Stevan (29:19):
Yes.
Yes.
And is it still 20, 20 bucks?

Terry (29:23):
Uh, free, free, free to be a, now we've, um, we've managed to,
uh, to the event has not made usrich in any way, shape, or form.
Uh, but it has managed to cover,its, its costs of, uh, the
organization throughout the year.
Uh, we still have to be verycareful about not spending too much.
Mm-hmm.
Um, like all good not-for-profits.

(29:43):
Um, but it is now so that one ofthose barriers has been reduced.
So it is a free, free membership.

Stevan (29:49):
Mm. And I know the ticket release dates are not set,
so, but how do, how do people.
Like get informed or the tickets?
What, what, when's it available you think?

Terry (29:59):
Um, tickets, uh, uh, we're not sure when tickets will be opening.
Uh, we're in discussions.
Um, the latest it'llbe opening is in July.
We have some issues with havingit in the financial year.
Um, so we're trying to get around that,um, and bring the ticket sales earlier.
There's also some technical issueswith, um, having tickets on sale.

(30:22):
And it's a bit of a manualprocess for our ticketing people.
Um, they have to man the emails andmanage complaints of people, not the
emails are gonna spam or whatever.
So if we can iron those bugs out, Iwould love to have it in kind of May.
Um, but due to some technicalissues, may not be to July.
Mm-hmm.

(30:43):
Um, but the best way is to, um, uh,jump on Facebook, uh, go to Common Arts.
Uh, join that.
We've got a brand new spanking,uh, um, Instagram account,
which, um, came up last week.
I'll pass over to Beck in a sec.Um, and sign up, become a member.
We, we have a pretty active, um,marketing email list, so you'll

(31:05):
get, um, updated with what's goingon in the community through that.
Yeah, that's, uh, I, and that'sprobably a better one to, to answer the
question about the community engagement.
'cause there's a lot ofstuff happening there.

Bekah (31:16):
Yeah.
Last year we, we ran a, um, acommunity market, uh, on a Sunday
at a local, um, community hall.
And I. It was a really big success.
We kind of were a bit surprised byactually, we didn't put that much,
um, effort into the marketing of it.
Um, and truthfully, the organizationof it was pretty straightforward.
We didn't spend a lot of timecurating it, but it all came together.

(31:39):
We had several store holders who camein with their market wears, so festival
clothing, arts, bits of camping equipment,just random bits of theme camp stuff.
Um, and we had DJs playing the centercamp crew had a sausage scissor,
which raised some, raised some money,and it was just a really nice vibe.
People brought their kids along andyeah, it was just a bit of a surprise

(32:01):
and I think we're quite keen to dosomething similar this year and, you
know, invest a little bit more timeand effort into making it even better.
But I think it was areally good foundation.
And, um, yeah, last year we alsodid some, um, we went to a couple
of fundraisers and just had like apresence for Common Arts Victoria, um,
just as a, hello, we are here, comeand talk to us if you're interested.

(32:23):
And that had, you know,some pros and some cons.
It was, it was quite labor intensiveto set it all up, stay for the
event, and then pack it all down whenyou're tired and, you know, thirsty.
Um, and we found that most of the peopleat those fundraisers were already well
aware of, uh, common Arts Victoria,but there were a few people there that
were like, what the hell is Underland?

(32:43):
So it was worthwhile.
We learned a lot from it, that's for sure.

Stevan (32:46):
So the, the name Underland, I'm curious, how did,
how did it become about and.
Were there other choicesof naming this event?
It was like underpantsor something like that.
That's what.

Narelle (32:57):
I, I would speak to this, my, my world, not quite Stevan.
I wanted Vic Burn.
Vic Burn for Life.
That's not where we ended up.
Definitely it was through consultation.
I'll let somebody else speaknow, but Vic Burn for Life.
All I have got say

Stevan (33:15):
it's a great name.
I love the name Underland though.
What's the story behind this?

Terry (33:19):
Um, uh, we, we had a wall.
Um, we had a wall at the camp outwhere we had to plague doctor.
So what was that?
2020? 20. Um, Marty, uh, Marty,our secretary, he's a gun.
Amazing man.
Can organize anything, whichis absolutely astounding.
'cause generally thiscommunity is sparkly cats.
Um.

(33:40):
So he, he had this thing planned.
He had, we had workshops, wehad, uh, interaction activities.
We had brainstorming sessions to reallyfigure out what, what the community,
what we wanted as a community,uh, what the vision was for both.
The organization, which wasunnamed at the time, and the event,
which was unnamed at the time.
Uh, and then one as part of that,we had like spitballing names out

(34:05):
there, and I think we had to writedown on a bit of paper and whatever.
And anyway, um, we hadn't decidedon the name yet at that point.
This probably on the Saturday.
Uh, and then the Saturday night whenwe finished, wrapped up the formalities
for the day and cracked a few drinks,sat around a fire and danced away.
He had this board, um, in thepaddock, like with the camping area.

(34:26):
I mean, there was only like 30,40 people, this, this thing.
And there were all these little nametags, uh, these bits of paper and people's
had names and we had a tally thing.
You could like mark down what yourfavorite thing was and this process.
Um, so it wasn't mine,it wasn't my first one.
It definitely has grown,uh, grown on me, the name.
Um, I'm quite a fan now.
Uh, didn't like it at the start, but,um, yeah, I think it's the right name

(34:49):
for the event, but I was quite, quiteimpressed at the organization that Buddy
had, uh, had teed up and, and the waythat it, the way it made us really wrestle
with, with words and what they meant.
Um, yeah.
Fun.

Stevan (35:01):
Yeah.
Did you, did you have any options in mind?

Terry (35:03):
Uh oh, I, yeah, I had one, but in hindsight, yeah, I, I kind
of lacked the idea of oxidize,um, with my mind because, uh.
It's a, it's a process that creates the,um, uh, it's, it's rust basically, but it,
it creates the red Outback of Australia.
Um, so I like the idea of like,oxidize as a, as, as a name.

(35:23):
But, um, I think, uh, Underland one,uh, and I think it's a fantastic name.
Um, I don't know who proposedit, but it was, uh, hands down

Stevan (35:31):
was it, wasn't you JC Um, it's this voting process sounds like, uh,
it's more complicated than squid games.
Did you, did you have any,any, any other names in mind?
Jc

Jamie (35:41):
Uh, no, it's not really my Forte.
I just gonna let other people dothe thing when it came to that.

Stevan (35:45):
Yeah.

Terry (35:45):
I suspect thank him.
I suspect I know who it was, but I don't,but I don't actually know if it was him.

Jamie (35:51):
I think it was Brandon.

Terry (35:52):
Oh, okay.

Jamie (35:53):
I think, I think it was Brandon, if I remember rightly well, could I from,

Stevan (35:56):
kudos to him Yeah.
From Mel Burners.

Jamie (35:58):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's, he's, uh, the president onthe board, if I remember correctly.
Still for Mel Burners at the moment.
But I, I think, I think itwas, it was his initial idea.
I may be wrong, but I'm prettysure it was, it was Brandon.

Stevan (36:09):
Right.
Can we talk a little bit, bit of historyof, for the first, uh, two years, so
Underland is in its third iterationand it's fourth iteration now, 20, 25.
Yeah.

Terry (36:18):
Uh, correct.
Yeah.
Coming in its fourth.
It depends what Yeah, the, yeah.
This will be the fourth.
Fourth, yeah.
Event.

Stevan (36:25):
Yeah.
So for the first few years, um,what was the effigy and what, what
were some of the challenges thatyou guys had running the event?

Jamie (36:33):
Um, yeah.
Well the, there was the plaguedoctor, but that was the campout,
it was really unofficial.
Mm-hmm.
Was the sort of actual burn itself.
And then, yeah, the, the first sortproper one that we did that had about 230
people, uh, James Hawkins place, uh, thatwas the effiMU FM U, um, which, yeah,
it was an f and it burn quite right?
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, it was rad.
And the, I mean, to be fair, I thinkprobably, again, dare say Terry

(36:57):
probably the best to talk about this'cause he was involved with the, the
actual build crew and stuff like that.
Um, and his partner to me washeavily involved in the design.
Um, so do you reckon, Terry,you'd, you'd take this one again?

Terry (37:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can take it.
I wasn't so much involved in thebuild crew, but, um, my partner, I
was kind of on the peripheries of it.
I think this was beforeI was, uh, on the board.
I was bringing my own art installation.
Um, Glenn and Axel wereoverseeing the, the build.
I believe we only had the one.

(37:27):
The one burn that year,we didn't have two.
Uh, so there was no temple, correct?
Um, yeah.
It was a case that, no, they had abuild crew and they didn't really
have anyone to design a concept.
So, um, I was, uh, talking to mypartner who doubles in, in art stuff
and creativity, and got talking aboutthis problem and she was keen to, to put

(37:47):
up a, I can't remember if she got, uh,tapped on the shoulder and said, Hey.
Be involved or not.
And yeah, so I sort of gave hersome ideas about way different
ways to design a concept.
And she ended up modeling it.
Um, actually physically sticks andsome wire and some bits and, uh, pieces
and, and twigs and that on our kitchentable, and used that as the concept.

(38:08):
So when she was meeting with the crewto, uh, they were working as a, as
a collective to kind of come up withthe idea and develop the processes of,
of building and, and, and designing.
Um, so that were kind of spit wallingideas and come up with the, the, um, EMU
idea, um, which they kind of ran with.
They really liked the little model.
And there's a, a photo float floatingaround of the giant, you know, three

(38:30):
meter high, uh, emu with the littlemodel, little scale model that she's
created on the ground in front of it.
So I use that as a, asa design thing again.
Uh, yeah, some of the challenges of that.
Um, I mean, new location, new landholder.

Stevan (38:46):
Was that similar terrain?
Was it,

Terry (38:48):
um, as the current underland probably more, probably more foresty.
There were, we kind ofmore in a treat area.
We were on the side of the forest,uh, sorry, side of the paddock in
the treat area, but it was similarishwas, you know, a couple hundred
Ks from the current location.
So not too far.
It would've been an hourand a half is my guess.
Different location.
But yeah, again, youknow, shoestring budget.

(39:10):
Uh, where do we get materials,um, how do we fund this thing?
We've got no money.
Uh, I think that year we didn't haveto worry about permits 'cause it
was a kind of, kind of a proof ofconcept that we were working with.
We kept it pretty, pretty low, prettysmall private party, uh, sorry,
private event I should call it.
Um, ticket sales were small cost, weresmall, so fortunately the crew, they

(39:34):
managed to contact the, the landowner.
Um, and, uh, found some, we, we gotold building materials that for, you
know, a hundred year old houses thathad been knocked down and the building
materials lying around because also,'cause it was close to a, um, a,
a treat area, we could go on siteearly and just collect a lot of wood.

(39:55):
So, um, I guess the first oneit was kind of having that
mix of like, we have no money.
How do we do it super cheap?
And then creating something thatpeople really enjoy and having its
own artistic vision within that.
And I think it worked really well.

Stevan (40:09):
Yeah.
Um, having that kind of constraintsgive you a bit more creativity, I think.
Yeah.
With the budget, with the money.
Yeah.
And, and the, and 2023,the effigy was the moth.
Yeah.
The rain moth.
Yes.
And the Nautilus, uh, temple.
That was beautiful.
Yes.
Both, both of those were beautiful.

Terry (40:25):
Yeah.
So the rain moth was the designof, I've forgotten her name.
Do you remember her name?
Jamie?

Jamie (40:30):
Uh, Rosie?
No,

Terry (40:31):
I think it might have been Rosie.
Yeah.
Or was she the one collecting the flowers?

Jamie (40:34):
Uh, yeah.
Rose.
Rose.
Rose Feely.

Terry (40:36):
Yeah.
So we had the concept, someone cameup with the concept for the moth.
Uh, so the rain moth is an indigenous,well, not an indigenous moth.
It's a Yeah, it's it's anindigenous moth to Australia.

Stevan (40:46):
It's native.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Terry (40:46):
It's native, is the word I'm looking for.
Uh, and we weren't sure if we were allowedto use it as a, as a symbol because
we weren't sure if there was any, um,indigenous, uh, relationship to the moth.
Uh, I think we tried, we've triedto get the permission for the emu.
We tried to get permission for the emuas well, and we were given the, sorry.

(41:07):
Go quickly to go back to the emu.
I totally forgot a massivepart of the story there.
So the land that, uh, James' land thatwas on was not far from the Grampians.
And there's a dream time story, uh,about, uh, the emu and the crow.
I, I won't retell it'cause I'm sure I'm wrong.
Wrong.
Uh, I'll get it wrong.
Noelle might know more.
I know it's not her land,but she'll probably know more

(41:28):
about the stories than I do.
Uh, but there's a whole Dreamtime storyabout how the land was formed, and it
was this battle between the crow andthe imu, um, and this, this big story.
And, and so having that story therewas kind of a bit of an inspiration.
My partner was also working as a teacherat the time and, and was teaching
some of this, sort of, these stories.

(41:48):
And we created the EMU.
And fortunately when we hadour, uh, the elder came to do
the, um, welcome the country.
He, he was happy enough to,to allow us to use the story.
He told the story of theemu, um, which was fantastic.
So, again, following on for thefollowing year, when we did the rain
moth, we were trying to reach out tothe local communities to see if we

(42:10):
could have permission to use the moth.
Turns out it wasn't a problem'cause the moth, the rain moth
is just a, it's a source of food.
Um, so it was nothingspecial, uh, to the moth.
So we created this amazing structurebuilt largely from an old, uh,
shearing shed that, uh, got demolished.
Um, again.
Super cheap, no money.
Uh, much prefer to use recycledmaterials where possible.

(42:33):
The build crew, um, was on site early.
They went down, uh, and helpeddemolish this, uh, this shed
grabbed a whole bunch of materials.
One of the crews, she worked at a florist,so she's been collecting, um, banks of
leaves and flowers for months beforehand.
Had these couple of trailerloads full of, um, flowers and

(42:53):
leaves and, and packed the vest.
The, the chest of this rain mothjust looked absolutely stunning.
Yeah.
And the, I could talk, I could talk
for hours about this stuff.
I'm aware there's other people on this.

Stevan (43:06):
No, it's fascinating.
With the story.

Terry (43:08):
Yeah.

Stevan (43:09):
And, and the, and the temple was, uh, the nautilus temple.
Was that done by.
Tiffany?

Terry (43:14):
Yes.
Yes.
So that was Tiff.
That was, uh, a tiff led design.
So Tiff is Glenn's partner, obviously.
Um, uh, and yeah, so one of theconstraints again, so one of the things
about creativity is I really likeputting constraints on things because
you put constraints on things and it,it's where creativity really comes out.

(43:35):
It's like, right, I can't dothis, this, this, and this.
What can I do within these boundaries?
So one of the boundaries of the22 burn was we weren't allowed
to have a structure bigger thana three by three by three cube.
So they were trying to work out how dowe make a temple that is, um, immersive
that you can go into and feels big?

(43:56):
So they came up with the idea.
Tiff came up with theidea of the Nautilus.
Because it's got thatspiral shape on the inside.
Mm. And so they created a, again,recycled reclaimed materials.
Um, managed to have this thing withinthis three by three by three cube.
So it was within ourpermitted structure size.
Uh, but you walked in and you wentthrough this spiral around and around

(44:18):
and around and around and around andaround until you came to the middle.
And it was, you know, people had puttheir notes up in there, things, I can't
remember the, what the little thing inthe middle was, but it really captured
that sense of space and discoveryand it looked phenomenal as it burnt.
Um, yeah, it was just a lovely withinthe, the, within the restrictions that

(44:40):
was placed on us by our event permit,I think they did an amazing job.

Stevan (44:43):
Yeah.
I, I, I love s spirals, especiallywhen it's osculating, like a DNA, but
the best angle I saw was from the top.
So you can see the formal Oh yes.
Design and the wholestructure is because open top,
that's aro.
Um, yeah.

Terry (44:55):
And then there was a, again, Glenn had carved another Nautilus,
which was probably, you know, uh, twofeet long and foot high or whatever,
excuse me, if for using feet.
Uh, and that was in the middle.
So you can see that from thedistance in that, um, top down
shot you're talking about.
Um, you can see the Nautilussitting on top of the Nautilus.
Yeah.

Stevan (45:13):
Yeah.
Cool.
Um, and I've actually designed aquiz if you guys wanna play a little,
a little multiple choice quiz.
You've got some, several options.
So how Aussie or Bogan are you?
And let's, let's see how you fair Yeah.
Who wants to play?

Narelle (45:27):
I'm the bogan one.
Oh, fucking one.
So keep me with it, Steve.

Bekah (45:33):
How, how are we, um, question providing our responses in the
chat, or are we just gonna pipe up

Stevan (45:37):
so well, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read out the questions.
The first question, let's, let'ssee how Bogan or how Aussie are you?
And you know, we we'reall Aussies here, right?
If someone who couldn't run achook raffle, so this question
one, if someone who couldn'trun a chook raffle lacks what?
Okay, so the, the multiple choice.
A, is it enthusiasm?
B, organiza organizationalskills, C, hard work or D talent?

Narelle (46:01):
Ah, I would say organizational skills, but I think you've left e off
the end, which is a bunch of chooks.

Jamie (46:08):
I'm gonna say A. Yeah.

Stevan (46:10):
Enthusiasm?

Terry (46:11):
I'm gonna say talent.

Stevan (46:13):
That's d.
Anyone go for hard work?
If, if, if you couldn't run achook raffle, what are you lacking?
Uh,

Bekah (46:20):
I think that's organizational.

Stevan (46:22):
It's actually B, organizational skills.
Ah, so you're right Bekah.

Bekah (46:26):
Yep.
Yep.
That was an obvious one.
A chook raffle wouldbe a massive headache,

Stevan (46:30):
right?
Yes.

Bekah (46:31):
Maybe like wr wrangling cats.

Stevan (46:33):
It's pretty obvious.
Okay, so what, so what is question two?
Is amber fluid?
Is it a oil?
Is it b beer?
Is it c alcohol or is it D Urine?
Amber fluid.

Bekah (46:44):
It's a, that's, there's multiple answers to that.
Can we have two?

Stevan (46:47):
Well, it could be all, I guess, but No, it's only one.
You're not Aussie enough

Terry (46:52):
Beer.
Beer, right,

Narelle (46:53):
but is it VB?

Stevan (46:54):
It's beer.

Jamie (46:55):
I know.
Like it's beer, but then it's also piss,but then piss, also alcohol, so yeah,

Terry (47:00):
it's all the same.

Stevan (47:02):
Well, alcohol can be used as, as oil as an engine.
Yeah.
Um,

Bekah (47:05):
golden Amber, was that the name of it?
Amber.
Amber.
Fluid Gold.
Amber, yes.
I've heard of, I've heard ofit as Golden Amber before.

Stevan (47:13):
Yeah.

Terry (47:14):
Liquid.
Amber,

Stevan (47:14):
question three.
Question three.
If I'm giving the Aussiesalute, what am I doing?
Aussie salute.
A, am I swatting away flies.
Am I saluting my mates?
Am I saluting a police officeror am I pulling a beer?

Bekah (47:26):
It's the flies.

Terry (47:27):
I always gotta go give it the bird.
But, uh, I'll go with the flies.

Stevan (47:31):
Saluting a police officer.
Yeah.
No, it's actually, yeah,it's swatting flies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, that's what it'sknown for in Australia.
Too many flies.
If someone offers you a cuppa and yousay Yes, what do you think you'll get?
An Aussie cake, a punch in the nose.
An Aussie hug.
Or a cup of tea?
A cuppa.

Jamie (47:50):
Cup of tea.

Terry (47:51):
Cup of tea.

Stevan (47:51):
Well, that's obvious.
Yeah.
That's, that's an obvious one cup of tea.
If someone calls you galah,what are they saying about you?
Do you wanna guess it?
Straight up?
Are you a champion?
You're a fucking, are you an idiot?
Are you're an idiot person?
Are you criminal?

Terry (48:08):
Are you an idiot?
You galah.
It's actually a, it's kind of like,it's not kind of an idiot, is it?

Bekah (48:13):
It's both.
I think it's that rude, loud idiot.

Stevan (48:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right.
It's rude.

Terry (48:18):
Yeah.
You're being obnoxious.

Stevan (48:19):
Yeah.

Terry (48:19):
Being an Idiot.

Stevan (48:20):
You being galah Yeah.
Yeah.
Alright.
Number six.
What does a a bit dusty mean?
Is it hungover, thirsty, tired, or angry?
I feel a bit dusty.

Jamie (48:29):
Ah, definitely Hung over.

Stevan (48:32):
Correct.
What does chokers mean?
Chas, sorry, sorry.
Pronounce it wrong.

Terry (48:38):
Chockies?

Stevan (48:39):
What does chockers mean?
Is Chas ah chockers.
Full to the Brim?
Yeah.
chockers.
Full to brim.
Cookies, chocolate bars or necklaces.

Jamie (48:47):
Full to the brim

Stevan (48:48):
Full to the brim.
You're pretty Aussie there.

Bekah (48:51):
There's also the word chook.
Chookers is a similar soundingword and that means good luck when
you're going on stage to perform.
Yeah.
Instead of saying break a leg herein Australia they say chookers.

Stevan (49:03):
Right.
Okay, cool.
Never heard of that.
Not aware of that.
Yeah.
What does it mean to beflat out like a lizard?
Drinking, blackout drunk.
Sleeping Exhausted or busy.

Bekah (49:13):
It's the morning.

Stevan (49:13):
Flat out like a lizard.
Drinking.

Bekah (49:14):
Where did you get these from?
Steven?

Jamie (49:16):
Yeah.
Busy.

Stevan (49:16):
Yeah, you're right.
What is, uh, what time of the day is it?
Is it when it's a sparrows fart?
Is it very early in the morning?
Very late at night, midday or afternoon?
What do you guys reckon?
Sparrow's fart.

Terry (49:29):
Morning.

Jamie (49:30):
Morning.

Terry (49:31):
Um, how bogan are you dot com.

Stevan (49:37):
And then, and then we'll take a break.
Okay.
Um, because I wanna get to this year'sunderland or last year's Underland.
Talk about that.
All right.
What does hard Yaka refer to?
You guys can guess, get this out.
This is easy.

Terry (49:51):
So when someone's been lazy,

Stevan (49:52):
hard, hard day, hard work.
Awful food or hard helmet.

Jamie (49:58):
Hard work.

Stevan (49:59):
Hard Yaka.

Bekah (49:59):
Yeah.
Hard work.
Yeah.
It's also the, the brand of a, of an old,um, workwear, Australian Workwear brand.
Hard yakka shorts andhard yakka work shirt.

Stevan (50:10):
Is that, was, is that made by King G?
Was that King G brand?

Bekah (50:13):
Possibly.
Possibly.
Very possibly.
Yeah.

Terry (50:15):
King G might have been the subbies, but they may have done, they
may have done hard jacker as well.

Stevan (50:20):
Yeah.

Bekah (50:21):
Yeah.
But super iconic.
Haven't heard the wordKing G for a long time.
They should make a comebackalong with Dunlop vollies.

Stevan (50:28):
You probably get them at best, best and less though.

Bekah (50:31):
Bring 'em back.
Bring 'em back.

Stevan (50:32):
Okay.
Let's take a short break.
We'll be right back after these shortmessages from burners in the community.

John (50:40):
Hey.
Hey, it's John here.
Um, you guys would all know meas Big Red or MacGyver Blazing
Swan's My hometown burn.
Uh, first burn was 2015,so nearly 10 years now.
Uh, moved over to New South Wales.
Met some wonderful people,but, um, I really, really miss
on my, my wonderful blazers.

(51:01):
Just, yeah, you guys are the bomb.
Um, hope to see you this year.

Lumi (51:06):
Hi, my name's Lumi.
I'm from Ngunnawal Countryin Canberra, Australia.
My first burn was burning seed2017 with the space in between.
I then became polycamperus with theunicorn orphanage and became a camp
co-lead for a number of years beforetaking it on as a theme camp for
third degree and also burning seed.

(51:29):
My shout out this year goes to the AfricaBurn Crew of the Flying Dutchman, who
I will be sailing with later this year.

Stevan (51:40):
Shall we talk about, you guys have got any facts and figures
about the 2024 Underland and justhave a look back at, at some of the
things that that happened as well.

Jamie (51:49):
Yeah, I've got some of them up.
They've not been officially published.
I won't give exact numbers, but I can givepercentages and some, uh, stuff like that.
What do you wanna know?

Stevan (51:57):
Oh, um, just the, the, like, for example, the attendance,
how much was ticket price and justa few other facts that, you know,

Jamie (52:04):
uh, yeah, so ticket prices were, oh, good question.
280 if I remember correctly.
Is that right, Terry?

Terry (52:12):
Yeah.
Uh, two 70 I think.
I think.
Um, two, we had to putit up by 10% this year.
So, so it's about right.
I, hang on.
No, it was two, it was 300 this year.

Stevan (52:23):
300, I think 2023 was two 50, right?

Terry (52:26):
Yeah.
Hmm.
I don't know, something like that.
Can't remember.

Stevan (52:31):
And it goes for three, four days.

Jamie (52:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's from the Thursday tothe Monday it was, uh, the ticket
price excluding GST was 272.
So it would've been, yeah.
$300 ticket.
Yeah, that's right.
We we'd, uh, allocated andbudgeted for our 500 ticket sales.
The final ticket sales was around 450.
Uh, I think that was around about 25 to30 kit tickets, uh, included in that.

(52:54):
Um, on sales.
Out of that, uh, our art and theme camps,they got 28.5%, uh, of the takings, um,
site got, uh, was allocated about, sofor op, uh, site operations, if you will.
Um, and rather than the eventoperations was about 17.5%,

(53:15):
um, event operations was 8.2%.
And then there's year round andmust haves, which are, you know,
stuffing things, sanitation.
Uh, security first aid, stuff like that.

Stevan (53:27):
And compared to 2023, how much has it grown?

Jamie (53:30):
Uh, so 2023, attendance wise, I think it was about 330, so it was extra.

Terry (53:40):
Oh, well that was taken.

Jamie (53:42):
Yeah,

Terry (53:43):
yeah, yeah.
I think it was three.
So about 2070 ish andthen four 50 last year.
Yeah.
Does that sound about right?

Jamie (53:50):
So, uh, uh, possibly.
Gimme a second.
I'll get the other, it'll takeme too long to look for 2023.
Um, but yeah, it was about 20%growth with, uh, yeah, increasing
ticket sales from two 70 to 300.
Uh, we did make a big purchase,uh, after 2023 as well, which
is a shipping container.
So that was our large, our firstmajor asset purchase as well, um,

(54:12):
for storage, uh, which was, youknow, really important and great.
So that's in the, thecommunity asset, if you will.
Uh, yeah, this year webought five generators.
Um, you know, the whole crewkitchen's fully decked and good
to go almost as a almost fullyoperational sort of commercial kitchen.
Um, yeah, that's, um, we definitely, youknow, the thing that we've been talking

(54:38):
about moving into next year is givena lot more focus, attention and love.
Uh, so, you know, financially for,uh, Rangers, sanctuary and, uh,
center camp to an extent as well.
They, or SPAM got.
Quite a, quite a bit of attention inthose initial two, three years purely
as the sort of the, the foundation toallow the event to actually operate.

(55:00):
But now that that's set up anddoing really well and healthy,
there's gonna be a lot more Yeah.
Focus and attention going towards theother, uh, as important, you know, during
the event, um, departments as well.

Stevan (55:12):
Yeah.
One of the, one of the things that I, I,I thought was a, was a good improvement
was the layout of the, the site.
Now we talked, I, I talked to you this,uh, about this Terry, um, at the time.
Yeah.
Um, you did a great job.

Terry (55:25):
Thanks.
I nearly killed me.

Stevan (55:27):
Tell us, tell us what we, you know, uh.
What were some of the things,the issues or some of the things
that you had to do differently?

Terry (55:33):
Yeah, so the, the big, the big issue was we, um,
we thought we had more time.
Um, so we thought we had moreability to, so the, the layout that
we set when we got the, so we havea four year permit for the site.
Mm. And the, the layout that wesubmitted, the map plan for that
site, um, we submitted to council.

(55:55):
Scope, we have to redesign thesite layout, um, within that map.
So we thought we had more capacitythan through negotiations, things.
So volunteer organization, right?
So things happen when they happen.
It can take a bit longer.
Um, then you'd like it to.
And what can often happen is,uh, if someone, you know, you
plan a, you plan a meeting.
And if, if someone's sick or someonecan't make it to that meeting, suddenly

(56:18):
it's four weeks later, it's anothermonth on and you're going, oh crap.
You know, this is due now.
So these things roll on a lot.
Um, we weren't really happywith the layout previously.
There was a a lot of issues.
We didn't know the site properly.
We'd never been there before.
We'd done a, a, a site visit, butnever had a set it up for hundreds
of people to be on the paddock.

(56:39):
So we learned a lot.
Then, um, last year when we were talkingabout the layout, we were looking
at what we can do for a redesign.
Um, but what happened was that the,we'd missed the deadlines to be
able to, uh, change the map layouts.
You know, this, this is a process.
We had to go to councilto get it approved.
Uh, and we weren't sure what our capacitywas to actually change the complete

(57:02):
road layout and all this sort of stuff.
So we thought we had more, more scope.
Um, and then we were told that.
We can't, we, we don't know.
It's too late to, to start talkingabout, um, talking about gonna
council and, and figuring outwhat we can do with the layout.
So we were locked into the layoutthat we had the previously year.

(57:23):
Then when I'm talking layout, I'm talkingthe, the, the key things like where,
where the roads are, where the effigytemple is, where the main structural
elements of, of the, the site are.
Um.
Things, things happened, um, you know,voluntary organizations stuff happened.
Uh, it ended up coming down toa, to a bit of a crunch, and

(57:43):
it was like, all right, cool.
There was some miscommunications in there.
Um, and people were designing,uh, some people who were planning
layouts were like, not reallycommunicated with the restriction
elements that we were working within.
Um, and so they were, they were,um, planning, planning, uh, a layout
based on incomplete information.

(58:04):
And so when it was getting down to, tothe crunch, it was like, okay, we have
to streamline this, uh, this process.
And, and by because of positions,you know, we actually bought
that process back into the board.
Um, some people weren't happy about that.
It was centralizing power a little bit.
Um, but due to having to, uh, speedthe process up, it was just easier.

(58:28):
Rather than having to talk to multipledepartments and, and slowly get
approvals and everyone on board, itwas just like, let's just bring it
internal for the board where we canmake these decisions a lot quicker.
Um, so we did that, um, had to lookat how we could shuffle things around
to try to open up the, the layout andactually bring the community together

(58:51):
to actually interact with each other.
It, I ended up, uh, many,many hours in front of Miro.
Fortunately, I have a, um, a parkacross the road from my house.
So there were many times after workI was out pacing around the park
trying to understand what 20 metersis, what a hundred meters is, how
big a campsite is, how many peopleyou'd see in this location there.

(59:14):
Um, so it was a bit of a,

Stevan (59:15):
you used a park as a simulation?

Terry (59:17):
I was using a park.
I was visualizing it in the park.
Yeah.
It's like, okay, cool.
How?
Because I knew, I knew how wide theroad was and I knew the, that we were
limited like the here and there and.
This gap between the road anddo we use that for camping
or do we use that for art?
Or how do we use these spaces?
So I was just sort of trying to replicatethe map layout on the park across the

(59:39):
road as I'm pacing this thing out.
The, I guess the, the key thing that wewere trying to do, so we end up having
like what we termed a causeway or aboulevard, I think was, uh, Toby's phrase.
We actually ended up moving thecamps completely from where they were
the previous year and having the,

Stevan (59:56):
the general camping,

Terry (59:57):
the, well, the general camping as well.
But that central corridorthat we had this year, right.
That was all camping last year.
Mm-hmm.
So we tried, because the, again, whenI, what I was saying before about
the limitations on, on creativitycan make things more creative.
We knew that we didn't know howmany tickets we were gonna sell.
We had no idea if we were gonna have300 tickets sold, or 700 tickets sold.

(01:00:20):
So it's really hard to design the layouton, um, on, it's like, Hey, 700 people.
It's a very differentlayout to 300 people.
So try not knowing that it was reallydifficult to come up with a design
concept that allowed growth, butallowed the community to stay close
enough together that it felt closeand, and, you know, community oriented.

(01:00:44):
Um, so I met with, uh, with Nitty fromSin City, who used to run the, uh,
theme camp layouts at, um, burning Seed.
Uh, had a couple of powwow sessions withhim, try to get an understanding of that.
Um, the, um, and we had, I thinkwe floated about four very quickly,

(01:01:04):
floated four different design conceptthat we approached to the board.
Um, uh, and, and they wouldabout scaling the event.
You know, is it 300 people?
Is it 400, 600, 700 people?
And we ended up working againin, in my position on the board,
i, I work, I oversee the, um,theme camps, um, at Artery.

(01:01:25):
So I was kind of in this position whereI knew some of the things that were
happening and could actually kind of layout theme camps and artists together and
how they would interact with each other.
Um, but the, the Boulevard thing that weworked, so we split the, kind of split the
site in two and had this big, long, wide.
Boulevard thing, which we endedup putting art installations on.

(01:01:48):
And the idea there was to try toget people to come together to see,
to actually bring the art in themiddle, but also have a space that
you could showcase the art on the padand allow, allow that to be, 'cause
you've got to have destination art.
People have to be able to gosomewhere and discover art.
So you can't have everything rightout the front of your campsite.
It kind of becomes boring.

(01:02:08):
Then you had to have the things where,like you go as a group and you go over
and see something and hang out andexperience that art, but you also had to
have art in around everyone so you couldinteract with it as well, quite a lot.
So there was a lot of competing conflicts,uh, about how we lay out the site.
Um, we also changed things, um, alittle bit with the theme camps.

(01:02:30):
Um, moved it around again, issues withsound and noise, uh, problems that we
were kind of only figuring out as we went,which way sound camps could face, uh, what
neighbors we had to be aware of and noiseproblems, all of these sort of things.
It was really happening fast.
Um, but yeah, the, the, uh, fromthe feedback we got from everyone

(01:02:53):
actually having center camp right inthe middle, having a bit of a center
camp ranges, sanctuary ops, all kindof in a spot in the middle, kind of
became a, a hub of the, of the event.
And then having the, the camps around.
Um.
Again, we ended up placing,kind of splitting a little bit
from the old way of doing it.
And I ended up placing some non-camp whowere not theme camps, but they were kind

(01:03:19):
of got in and it's like, Hey, you'redoing something, let's bring you on here.
And then they kind of bought theirthing and, and it worked really well.
It was a mess.
It was difficult andstressful, but paid off.
And it, I think it wasreally, really good.
And the feedback we got from a lotof people, it was, was fantastic.

Stevan (01:03:33):
Yeah.
Well, for 2025, uh, Underland willhave a theme for the first time
that'll help in a way to also structurethe layout and maybe play around.

Terry (01:03:43):
No, no, no.
So, so the, um, we, we have a, the maplayout needs to be in by, we need to
finalize the, any significant redesignsof the map needs to be in by March.
Um, so we're talking, you know,nine months before the event.
So we've got two months of a little bitof back and forth if we're gonna move.

(01:04:04):
Road layout, road layouts needs to be donenow, and there will be some minor road
layouts, change a bit of the site change.
The, the theme of it isn't goingto impact on the, the broad layout.
Um, 'cause again, the, the, thelayouts more of a, every year
it's gonna kind of, it's not gonnachange massively from year to year.
Uh, it might, it might hereand there, but it won't be

(01:04:26):
influenced by the, by the theme.

Stevan (01:04:28):
Let's talk about the theme.
The theme is pop for 2025.
How did it become about.
What was the idea behind this?
I, I do like it how It's justone word pop and it is poppy.

Terry (01:04:38):
Yep.

Jamie (01:04:38):
Yeah.
Um, yeah, so the, so the pop theme,um, you know, themes have been,
have been talked about since,well, really three, four years ago.
Um, but just for the, 'cause wewant to, we always wanna do a proper
community engagement about it.
Um, but with time constraint,we sort of just kind of jumped
the gun a bit this year.
And it was actually Marty who suggested,um, the theme for this coming year Pop.

(01:05:02):
Now, one of the thing about, uh, a themeis getting it out, you know, essentially
as soon as possible so that, uh, themecamps and artists can incorporate it
if they so choose into what they'regonna be doing for the coming year,
the coming burns because of that, and,you know, doing a community engagement
process would, would take us sort of,you know, around about two, three months.

(01:05:24):
Um, it wasn't gonna happen untilperhaps this time of the year, so
we thought just for this one year,the first year we'll do a theme.
We decided just to chooseit at the board level.
Had to do it.
We just, it was necessary for, for time,for it will be a community engagement
process, you know, moving forward.
Um, you know, even the idea of likecenter camp this coming year, 2025, um,
there could be like a little workshopto, to get the theme for 2026 going.

(01:05:48):
So yeah, Marty suggested pop as a,an all round, um, you know, easily
applicable across many mediums andinterpretations as a theme, you know,
does it mean pop in terms of color or.

Stevan (01:06:01):
I think it's going off again.

Jamie (01:06:04):
Fuck sake.
Sorry.
Um, it's fucking phone keep.
Going stand by.
Uh, yeah, so Marty wentfor the, the pop theme.
Um, we had the board agreed,yep, let's do it this year.
Um, and yeah, moving forwardwill absolutely be, uh, community
engage process for sure.
Um, but yeah, you know, it's, it's a nice,good broad, widely interpreted theme.

(01:06:29):
Um, yeah.
And that, that was, that's howwe kind of got to it this year.
Yeah.

Stevan (01:06:34):
Well, well, I love it.

Terry (01:06:35):
One of the, one of the problems with, with themes is you've got, um,
members of the community that, that,that think that a theme isn't needed.
Um, some people are quite averseto having a theme at the event.
They don't, and they actuallydon't think there should be.
Um, and then some people love themes.
We, we had many discussions onthe board about do we theme it?
'cause some people on the boardwould passionate, like, no,

(01:06:57):
we, we should not have a theme.
Um, and then some people were like, Hey,but people are asking us what's the theme.
So the, as the discussions went on,it's like, well, some people love
themes and, and again, it's that.
Bri put in some restrictionsabout what things is, and, and
the creativity really does thrive.
And so the themes aren't there forthe large scale artists because

(01:07:19):
anyone who's doing large art, youknow, they're probably thinking
about that 12, 24 months out.
Like, you know, they're buildinga concept in their mind about
the what they wanna build.
Um, and they're not gonnabe able to theme it.
'cause if you're doing something that'sgonna take 18 months to build, you're not
gonna know the theme until 12 to nine,nine to 12 months before the next event.
So the, the theme really is for, wethought we, we heard stories that,

(01:07:43):
uh, um, anecdotes that some peoplelove, themes, uh, look forward
to themes, really gets excited.
And you've got people out there who, who.
Big art.
They don't, for some capacity, reason,time, money, work, family life.
They can't get involved in that level.
But they do want to, to create,and we're about creating.

(01:08:05):
And, and that idea that, that keep,keep inventing, keep creating,
keep, keep that momentum going.
So by having a change in the theme,coming up with a theme, we want to
give the idea that people can, like thepeople that do thrive within those, and
they just go, Hey, this is a new theme.
How can I interpret this?
How can I adjust my costume?

(01:08:26):
How can I make some littlethings from my campsite?
How can I contribute to the event?
How can I be part of the event?
By it, it gives themthis bit of direction.
And so we, we had this discussion alot and obviously we, we don't want
to be mandating it from a board down.
Um, we do have a planto have a, uh, a pro.
We will develop a process for thenext event where we will get ideas.

(01:08:48):
And I can't remember if we decidedat the event at Ana camp during
the, the event or what, but, but todo, to do that because it's gonna
take at least a 12 month process.
We missed the opportunity todo it at the recent event.
Uh, so we just had to come up with a themeand Marty proposed pop, uh, everyone kind
of liked it and it was like, look, it's.

(01:09:08):
It's broad enough thatit works really well.
Yeah.
So it did.
It did.
It did.
There was a lot of discussthat lof for, for the, for
this thing as small as a theme.
There was a lot of discussionat the board level about it.

Stevan (01:09:21):
Yeah.
There's, there's, there's peoplethat, that love it and there's people
that don't really care much about it.

Terry (01:09:26):
Yeah,

Jamie (01:09:27):
exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Totally.
And like the people that don't careabout it, it's not like, it's not all,
it's not really, it's not about them.
Exactly.

Stevan (01:09:34):
It's not important.
Yeah,

Jamie (01:09:35):
exactly.
So it's not really any offtheir back or off the nose or
whatever if we do have a, a theme.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and of course there's a big thing forquite a lot of people in the community.
Um, and so yeah, it's a, it isa great way to, to let people's
imagination home and run wild and Yeah.
And again, big Bitcoin we've touchedupon, it gives artistic direction

(01:09:56):
for, for some artists as well,which is, you example, some artists.
Um.
Our tested process, uh, it reallyhelps with them to have an idea
of direction because of the same.

Stevan (01:10:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, let's talk about, so I've, I hada, I had the chance to meet, uh, Mick
and Fiona last year for the first time,and I got to know 'em better in 2024.
The site that Underland is beinghosted in, that's their property.
So it's a, it's a private property.
Um, what can you tell us about howyou build this relationship with

(01:10:29):
the people, uh, at Paradise orNaverre and also with landowners?

Jamie (01:10:33):
Uh, yeah, I'll, I'll take this one.
That was really the, I was the, theforefront of, of that whole aspect and,
and process, if you will, from reallyfrom not day dot, but leading on from, uh,
James Hawkins and being there and how thatsort of, unfortunately didn't carry on.
And then the concerted effortat the board level to really

(01:10:53):
do the site search process.
Um, and then leading on from that, whenwe actually had the leads, um, I did a
lot of legwork and traveling to go to,uh, three sites in total across Victoria.
Uh, one of them was, uh,unsuitable out in Gippsland.
Uh, the other one that we lookedat that was a definite possibility
was down in Darin Allen, um, whichis, uh, Southwest near the coast.

(01:11:15):
Um, and then of course Paradise,um, which is where we're at, um, at
making fees and yeah, so that's say amixed little working farm, 150 acres.
Um, yeah, I guess when you goand when you go and meet people,
there's really, I. If you wannasuss out what they're looking for.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and the main thing is, is financial.

(01:11:36):
Mm-hmm.
More often than not for, butfor some people it's, it, it can
be more financial than others.
Um, so for example, Mick, uh, youknow, he is looking for passive income.
Uh, he had a pretty gnarly accident,but he got his foot caught in a hopper.
Uh, his foot got torn off andthen had to get stitched back on.
And because of that, you know,he is, um, sort of partially
physically disabled with his foot.

(01:11:57):
Um, he can't, he's nowhere nearhis mobile and therefore being on
the working farm, that's not asmuch of an option for him anymore.
So he was looking to diversify hisincome and gain passive income by
the use of, uh, the land on the, theproperty that he's, he's holding.
Uh, but then conversely, the folksdown in Darren Allen, they've
got a much bigger, um, farm.

(01:12:17):
They come from a bigger farming family,thousands of acres, multiple properties,
and they're just a straight up capitalist.
And we're very open about

Stevan (01:12:25):
he's on standby again, I think,

Jamie (01:12:27):
sorry, I'm getting

Stevan (01:12:28):
That's okay.

Jamie (01:12:29):
Um, so yeah, um, down in Darren and Allen, they're,
you know, right into the money.
That's all they're interested in.
And because of that, they saidthey didn't care what we did.
They were not worried at all aboutour, you know, wonderfully flamboyant,
um, diverse, uh, burns, you know,festival event that we put on.
Um, whereas with Nick, uh, Mick,sorry, and Fee, it was a bit more,

(01:12:53):
it was much closer, it was muchmore personal, um, in that regard.
And it took a lot of time.
Like, I think I, I've no idea howmany times I went out to, uh, chat
to Mick initially, but then thecommunity engagements with various
people from the local town in the var.
Uh, you know, at one point therewas about 20, 25 locals at Mixed
Property, and myself and a fewothers were doing a presentation and

(01:13:15):
talking, you know, selling what we do.
Because it's really, that's what itis, uh, initially, is that you're
trying to convince people to let youon their property to have a festival.
Um, fundamentally that's how they see it.
Now, festivals by and large,when you go to rural Australia,
is a pretty dirty thing.
Um, it tends to, uh, have a quitea bit of taste in people's mouth.
They have ideas of like pitch festivalof, you know, these big festivals.

(01:13:39):
A lot of the things that cameup, you know, like fuck Fest,
drug Fest, all that kinda stuff.
They.
Typical, um, views of commercialfestivals, which is not at all what we do.
So really it was convincing and wellexplaining and convincing the, the
locals that that's not what we do.
Uh, giving examples, you know, a bigselling point was like having the
Rangers team, uh, having their own,you know, in-house sort of first

(01:14:01):
responder, paying participant carecrew, um, and sanctuary for, you
know, mental healthcare and wellbeing.
Um, and also, you know, explainingthat we are a professional outfit.
We will, it will be permitted,we will have security, we will
have contracted first aiders.
Um, you know, we have emergency evacuationplans for our management plans and slowly
after, you know, multiple meetings andtalking about it, um, as well as, you

(01:14:25):
know, the big sort of soft skills andjust actually getting onto the level with
the people and that real interpersonalconnection and being on a level with
them and not being too overbearing.
Um, and, you know, speaking withthem in ways that they can relate
to, um, is really important.

(01:14:45):
Um, and it's something I'm kind of naturalat anyway, so I find it pretty easy.
But yeah, that's really at the core of it.
If, if, you know, say if anybody'sperhaps listening to this and
they're thinking we're going outand doing a burn, like have, yeah.
Have a, have someone who has thoseskills to, to be able to connect
with a very wide range of diversepeople, but also, uh, be ready to

(01:15:09):
face the, you know, the conservative.
Country folk that are reserved and,you know, putting on like a, as a,
you know, for example, like as aguy putting on a a sparkly top could
be, whoa, that, you know, that's,that's a bit wild and far out there.
Um, with what we do as a community,you know, that's sort of just kinda
scratching the surface really.

(01:15:30):
Um, and, but again, easing them intoit, you gotta really just sort of
take your time and subtly talk to'em and drop bits about, you know,
partial nudity and, but then big thingsabout obviously consent and the, the
principles and all this kinda stuff.
Um, another big selling point's.
Leave no trace.
I mean, that was actually, to befair with it being a sort of working

(01:15:51):
farm, uh, leave no trace is huge.
Um, and that's always the firstreal post-event, um, thing that the
people, you know, the, the rural folksreally notice and think, wow, you
actually did do what you're gonna say.
It's like, yeah, you know, we, weprobably cleaned up and took away more
than was actually there at the start.

(01:16:11):
You just, you know, um, so yeah,it's, it's, it can be difficult.
Um, you've gotta be ready to facelike really hard, tough questions.
Um, I got grilled by Mike's sister,uh, Leanne, uh, that's true.
Uh, her partner, um, about drugs and theyhammered me for about 10 minutes and, um.

(01:16:32):
I mean, you know, there weresame parts of drug policy.
Now we, we have a loose drug policy.
We didn't actually have an officialsort of, I guess, document, um,
operational manual, uh, or probably adocument for handling that quite yet.
But, you know, from, I've workedin a lot of festivals, so I was
kind of managed to to wing it.
Um, and it was really interesting 'causeto use an example though, like, you know,
what would you do if you seen someoneon a dance floor and they popped a pill?

(01:16:56):
Like, what would you do?
Would you like, you know, wouldyou, would you object them?
Would you evict them?
Blah, blah.
And I was like, no, you can't do that.
Like, first of all, you know,we dunno what is they've taken.
You can't just assume that.
Um, number one, uh, number two, youknow, you just gotta play it safe.
You maybe speak to the Rangers.
Um, you go and check with theperson, see if they're all right,
if they're looking a bit worse forwhere, and there's ways to like soft
handle it rather than the hard line.

(01:17:17):
But they, you know, they werepretty keen on the hard line.
And what was interesting as well is thatthe local caller, Han was at this meeting
as well and after about 10 minutes ofthis grill and she piped up and said
that she supported everything that, um,myself and a couple others had said.
Uh, and also made it clear and said thatit was not safe, nor would it be at toll.
Um, the line to go is to kickpeople out if they had, you know,

(01:17:40):
were intoxicated or had been, uh,seen to be, you know, partaking in
drugs and the cops got involved.
Um, that was something she said that youdo not kick them off site because then
they become a danger to others as well.
So it was really interesting facingthose kind of lines of questioning.
Um, but yeah, that's,that's the nature of it.
You've gotta be sort of really, reallygotta understand what you're doing, what

(01:18:01):
you're, what it is that you're doing, um,and, you know, have confidence and belief
in what you're doing so that when theydo ask the hard questions, you can, you
can answer them with truth and honesty.

Stevan (01:18:12):
Okay.
Yeah.
So that's the way, uh, thatwas my interaction with,
with Mick and Fiona as well.
They're lovely people.
Um, very open-minded,very open-hearted as well.
And the, the thing that did, you know,sell, sell to us, uh, sell to them was
the, the community that we bought, uh,for him to experience and not, not just
about leaving that trace, but also apositive trace, uh, with, with the site,

(01:18:37):
with the ecology of the land impact.
Do we have any.
Any, uh, examples or anything, anystudies about that of, of our impact?
It's probably early days.

Jamie (01:18:45):
Yeah.
Nothing, nothing concrete or, orprocedural wise or official yet, but
we definitely checked in Jira or theParadise again, myself and a couple
others, uh, pair who's our leave notrace leads, we went and checked the
burn scars and looked at the vegetationthat was regrowing as well on the
burn scars and checking that out.

(01:19:05):
We also ended up helping out andgetting rid of, uh, bath, some
bathhouse bramble, which is aninvasive, nasty species that have been
kicking about on the site as well.
Um, so loosely we've done some, Iguess, reconnaissance in that regards.
Um, we don't have anythingofficial capacity wise yet.
I mean, but again, with these kind ofthings, it's, you know, it's sort of a,
at the board level, it's basically waitingto see if anybody steps up and actually

(01:19:27):
takes the rent and takes the lead to, tomove forward and create the structure,
um, for something like that to happen.
Um, 'cause it would be great, butagain, also because it has a working
farm, the ground itself doesn'tsee a lot of usage, if you will.
There's, uh, often sheep or cattle, um,grazing, um, there's really crops anymore.

(01:19:47):
But yeah, I think it would be great tohave a much keen eye go over the land to,
to really document, uh, of Florida there.
Um, and techno and there could be, youknow, some really rare or potentially
endangered flora in amongst the trees andstuff like that that, you know, the, the
common island myself has no idea about.

(01:20:09):
So yeah, it would be great to, it reallywould be great to know more about that.
Um, and like regeneration wise, there'sbeen again, some, most conversations
with Mick about potential tree planting.
He's a little bit stubborn about it.
Um, I think it's really sort of,you know, holds on dearly to the,
to the, the land that he's holding.
Um, and he has planted a lot of treesup on the housed, I think he said he's

(01:20:31):
planted about maybe 40,000, uh, treesover the past, uh, decade or so up there.
So.
But even going beyond just, you know,mixed property, there's also the, the
local, broader local community of Navarre.
And again, it's somethingI would really like to see.
Um, again, a more engagement to,to engage with the local community
and we could do more with them,perhaps in line with, uh, helping out

(01:20:54):
with the land and stuff like that.
Um, and the local town.

Terry (01:20:57):
Yeah, I was having a chat with Per, um, uh, about that this last year.
And we're, we're working on a leave notrace model and that, that works for some
lands, but a lot of the lands that weuse, they're farmland, they're paddocks.
It's not, they're not like, you know,not like the player in the States.
It's completely different.
And I mean, I'm sure there are, likeif you look at, um, mutoids space out

(01:21:21):
in South Australia, um, out the back,back there, um, you know, I dunno if
they're still running that every fouryear event, that's a, it's a desert.
It really is a desert.
It's a different sort of land.
Um, where we're on, we'reon farming paddocks.
Per was saying that, um.
If we work on a leave no trace, um,we're actually selling ourselves short.
We actually have the capacityto leave a positive trace.

(01:21:44):
I mean, there's invasive,uh, plant species.
There's ser tussic, there's allthese things that are on the, on the
paddocks that we can actually look at.
Like, we are there for a time.
We have a whole bunch of manpower.
We can change this, we can do that.
We can, you know, deal withtry like in small, small doses.
A lot of the firewood we got this yearwas, um, fallen trees and, and branches.

(01:22:07):
So, you know, clearing thatfor the, um, potential fires.
Uh, so going through that process is,so the leave no trace is a, it's a
difficult one because there is thatethos and, and it's a fantastic ethos
to, to work within that minimum.
We should be leaving no trace if possible,and we can work out a way to do it.
Maybe the, the future goal is totry to work out some way of actually

(01:22:30):
improving the land that we, weget gifted with each each year.
But, um, yeah, loving it'sa food for thought thing.
I'm not quite sure how itwould happen, but yeah,

Stevan (01:22:39):
I think what I did notice were the cows were pretty happy, I think.
And, and you know what the reason wasthat the, the why, why they were happy.
I think that the soundcurfew made a big difference.
Like all the noise was shut offat what, three o'clock at least.
Maybe even earlier.

Terry (01:22:53):
It changed throughout the day.

Stevan (01:22:55):
Yeah.
So what's the thinking behind that?
'cause we all love our doof-doof music

Terry (01:22:59):
permits.
Yeah.
Largely it was permits, largelyit was, uh, a community, local
community that doesn't know us.
Um, and we didn't know howfar away we were from places.
So, uh, I mean, the other thing is we'relike, you know, organizers, we're we're,
we're not in our twenties anymore.
You know, having a, having a bit of awedge in the middle of like, not having

(01:23:21):
that base rattling my caravan all night.
It's kind of a nice thing.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
So, yeah,

Stevan (01:23:26):
I like it.
But, but there are people out therethat also want that kind of 24
hour party atmosphere, which is not
Yeah.
You know,

Terry (01:23:33):
it, it, it, honestly, it was a permit thing.
It, um, and it will,will be again this year.
Um, I think there's some elementof, uh, you know, do we restrict it?
We do, we not, um, it isa, an ongoing conversation.
I think there's something about like, weshouldn't be putting restriction on it.
And some of those magic momentsare nine in the morning.
The following day that, youknow, you, you, some people

(01:23:54):
wake up and breakfast radio.
Breakfast radio.
Well, I mean, not even breakfast,radio, more of a, you know, you rock
up at somewhere that people have beengoing all night and you come out fresh.
Sure.
The opposite way around.
There's some really magic momentsat various times throughout the day.
Um, but yes, I mean, the cur, the,the sound is purely about our permits.
Um, we're very strict on that because weknow if we are going to get hit and we're

(01:24:16):
going to get, uh, council coming downon this, we're a complaining neighbor.
It's because they can hear thebase at four in the morning and
they haven't been able to sleep.
So that's largely been it.

Jamie (01:24:27):
Again, we, on that note.
It be something that seems look to bemore innovative in terms of creating
the space that, uh, soaks up and absorbsthe sound a bit more in terms of the,
the spaces that they're playing sound.
Um, perhaps not being open air, uh, or,you know, putting some sort of sound
barriers in a creative way around,uh, their dance floor, for example.

(01:24:50):
You know, there's, there's, wecan sort of work on that where
we do start testing as well.

Terry (01:24:53):
But it's also that we, we are new to this.
We are new to the location.
We don't know what our sound levels are.
So now we have two years of data.
We have, um, a contracting, um,uh, sound engineer that comes out
and we'll measure those levels andimplement systems that will ping us
when noise levels get bet, get peaked.
And uh, I don't think it was last year, Ithink it was the year before, so 23, um,

(01:25:17):
we had sound levels were, were tripped atone of the, um, audio monitoring stations.
And in the report right up theum, engineers go, oh look, okay,
this spiked above this level.
So he went in and listened to it.
Uh, 'cause there's sort ofrecording that he's got and like,
oh, okay, what, what tripped this?
What triggered it?
And he listened to the audiorecording and it was the birds.

(01:25:37):
It was like seven in the morningand the, and the K barrels, the
cockatoos or something that werescreaming and y and yelling.
And they were the ones thattripped the, uh, acoustic levels.
Um, not us, but I think as we, aswe, as we develop and understand
more about how noise travels.
Um, how, you know, councils are used tofestivals where there is a main stage

(01:26:01):
there where, where they have a $50,000sound system hired for three days and
you know, these sound levels carry, weare not that our biggest sound system
someone brings in the back of his car.
So it's, as we understand more abouthow noise travels, where the issues are,
we can tailor the map to point gate.
Okay.

(01:26:21):
Sound camps have to point this way, um,because that's, you know, for reasons
and, and da, da da, and hopefully we canget to a point that, you know, we don't
get complaints so we can open it up andwe, you know, there's less restrictions
and people can kind of figure out theirown, their own way of, of, of being.

Stevan (01:26:39):
Now there has been questions about, uh, Underland
being a, a regional status burn.
Uh, is there any, any, any activitiesin, in trying to get it as a
regional or how, how are you guysfairing traveling with this event?

Jamie (01:26:54):
Um, yeah, look, it's discussed on and off over the past few years.
Um, we don't feel a greatdesire or need to do it.
People who have been involved in otherburns and, you know, particularly
shaye who's been involved inbig burn, um, really other than.
I guess the, the, the, were aburn, like support from the big

(01:27:15):
burns little to not come in at all.
And this is coming from experience forpeople who have set up regional burns.
So that is not a thing,um, that's of interest.
So really it just seems to be aboutthe actual, I guess the official stand.
It's just my personal opinionat the moment as well.
Like that's all I've really sort of seenand heard as to why we would go for it.
Um, but also, I mean, that wouldjust be the barn as an organization.

(01:27:37):
We're not a barn org, we're a,we're a community arts organization.
Mm-hmm.
We're not getting locked into that at all.
And we're, we, we're,we're pretty clear on that.
Um, so as an organization, like we arenot singularly just a burn organization.
We are a community that's organized.
That's, that's the direction thatwe're going at the org level.
Um, so yeah, but in terms of theburn regional status, we've yet to

(01:28:00):
hear some real solid justification orrationale other than cool thumbs up.
You get the officialstaff that you're a burn

Terry (01:28:08):
plus there's, um, the, there's quite a bit of, um,
administration overheads thatcomes with the regional status.
The afterburn reports, you've,you know, you've gotta do it a
certain way with a certain thing.
You've gotta submit those.
So, particularly at a, at a smallyoung event that we are the, someone
has to write those, someone, Imean, we try, we're, we're, we're

(01:28:29):
trying to be as transparent as wecan with the community, but someone
has to write those, those reports.
And at the moment, everyone that'sinvolved is wearing multiple hats.
So to, to ask someone to go and write a,you know, a hundred page document, I don't
know how, how long they're, or whatever.
But to actually go through and,and work with all the, all,
all the departments to do that.
It's big overhead, big ask.

(01:28:51):
So it's, it's, we haven't locked ourselvesout from not being a regional, not
being an official regional, but at themoment it was like the, the benefits
of being one don't outweigh the, um,the, the requirements of the, the time
and the effort to, to actually do it.
And if someone, again, if there's somereally passionate people that's like, no,
we have to do it, we'd love to have a chatwith them to figure out if it's worth it.

(01:29:17):
Um, and who's gonna do it.

Stevan (01:29:18):
I was just, uh, I just wanted to ask you, Terry, just quickly,
um, have you still got that logies?
Use Red, red carpet?

Terry (01:29:26):
Um, we had, um, we'll make the feature again.
Oh, when was that?
That was 20, that was 23.
Uh, so that was in, we didn'thave the shipping container.
Ah, right.
We didn't have the shipping containers.
So that ended up back at one of the,um, spam crews, um, country property.
And we didn't, we didn't end upstoring it properly, so we rolled

(01:29:46):
it out and it's not synthetic.
Right.
So it's all natural things.
We, we unrolled it and it'slike, oh, we can't use this.
So it did, we, we, we tried, we tried topull it out and, and have Logies red card.
Well, perfect for the pop thing.
Yeah.
But no, it, it has, it has retired.

Stevan (01:30:03):
Well, thanks, thanks very much, guys, uh, for coming together
and, and having a chat aboutCommon Arts Victoria Underland.
So the, the dates we, the importantdates for UNDERLAND this year is 25th
of September to 2020 eighth, is it?
Or 29th.
That's the UNDERLAND event for this year.

Jamie (01:30:20):
Yeah.
A FL Grand final weekend.
That's the, the placementholder for the time being.
It may, if it doesn't extenuatingcircumstances, but yeah, we're,
we're going for the a FL Grand Finalweekend again at the end of September.

Terry (01:30:32):
The, the main issue being that I don't think the AFLs
released their, um, schedule.
So when they do, because it may, it.
It's 90% gonna be on that weekend, right?

Stevan (01:30:42):
Traditionally, yes.
Yes.
I

Terry (01:30:43):
it for some other reasons, traditionally, but it
can change for various reasons.
When they release their, um, theirevent, their, their game schedule,
we'll know and it'll be on thesame weekend as grand final.

Stevan (01:30:53):
Yeah.
Cool.

Terry (01:30:54):
But likely gonna be that same weekend.

Stevan (01:30:56):
Cool.
And the website is

Jamie (01:30:58):
commonarts org au

Terry (01:31:00):
Yeah.
There's not a heap on there at the moment.
We, we had to set that up asa, as a placeholder for, um,
for organizational reasons.
And we needed the website.
So we've got the CommonArts Victoria website.
Uh, we are in talks to, hopefullywe can start building an underland.
Um, we, we own the domainnames for Underland.
Um, we are hoping if we can get thevolunteers to, um, uh, together that

(01:31:24):
we can, um, have a UNDERLAND website.
Yeah.
But at the moment it'sCommon Arts Victoria.
We have Facebook, um, Bek, do youwanna, do you wanna take over your,
you are involved in our communist teamnow, your community engagement team.
You probably know moreabout this than we do.

Stevan (01:31:38):
Promote yourself.

Bekah (01:31:39):
Well, if I got the mic, I might pipe up.
So, um, yeah, Marty's looking afterthe Instagram and social media.
That's not, that's a comms function,not a community engagement function,
but, uh, I believe it is in the works.
He put it up on the Slack channel forus to all have a look at, and I think
he's just waiting for some feedback.
I don't think it's live yet.
Yeah.
Cool,

Stevan (01:31:58):
cool.
And you also have this platformas well if you wanna promote,
uh, anything in an audio format.
I know you guys have, uh, uh, info sessionanother part two or something with,
for the effigy build and Temple build.

Terry (01:32:09):
Um, yeah, that being confirmed yet, we're still in
the process of Christmas, right?
Terrible time of year to try to organizethings, organize the, uh, application
submissions for effigy Temple, hopingto, to have a, um, another info session.
Um, but don't have a datefor that, unfortunately.

Stevan (01:32:28):
Well, I was at the last one.
I took a few notes, so I'll belooking forward to chatting to
Jimbo and Aruna about it as well.
And who else wants to join you?
Uh, thanks very much guysfor coming onto this podcast.
Any, any other thing you wanna plugor Terry, you're going to Kiwi Burn.
Have fun.

Terry (01:32:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Kiwi Burn has, uh, has KiwiBurns running an initiative.
I don't know if it's this year, firsttime they've reached out to multiple
burns around the local area and are,uh, inviting people to specific like
departments and that to, to come along.
Um, the deal is, I, I believe that,um, ninja, uh, one of our Ranger

(01:33:08):
leads, um, is, is also going anda few other departments, I believe
there's some of the Tasmanian guyshave been invited, you know, they've
started their first burn this, uh, lastyear, blazing Swan and, uh, whatever.
Uh, the idea is that they.
We do a slack of skills share.
Um, we can go there, we canshare knowledge, share, share.

Stevan (01:33:28):
I, I love this initiative, uh,

Terry (01:33:29):
yeah.
Yeah.
So it's really good.
We'll be able to, 'cause we had,we had a number of the Kiwi band
guys that, uh, underland year, um,

Stevan (01:33:36):
Lumos

Terry (01:33:37):
and, and you know, they've been running through, what, 15 years or
20 years or something, and learning,learning how they do things, um,
getting inspiration from how otherpeople run events, um, burns and,
and bringing the, those things back.
So I'm really keen on, on seeinghow they do a lot of the art,
how they, you know, organize.
Um, my partner Dene, she's one, shewas the one that was invited primarily,

(01:33:58):
um, as she's overseeing artery.
Um, so just sharing that knowledgeabout how they run artery and
how they work with the artists.
Uh, I'm keen on seeing they've, I believethey've done a new, they're rejigging
how they do center camp over there.
They've renamed it as a center hub,I believe, something like that.
Uh, I'm keen to see how they operate,meet some people and, and get some ideas.

(01:34:23):
We, we've already got a whole bunchof info from them about, um, running
some backend data with Airtable.
Um, so yeah, looking forward to that.
It'll be, uh, an interesting experience.

Stevan (01:34:32):
Yes.
Love to hear your feedbackand your report from it.
And, and that's the, the next, uh,people that we're trying to get is
the Kiwi burners probably, I thinkthey're quite busy at the moment,
so probably afterwards when they

Terry (01:34:42):
Yeah.
Their events in two weeks, right.
So

Stevan (01:34:45):
22nd of January.
Yes.

Terry (01:34:47):
Um, I just, I guess, uh, the things that I will, will add on that is like, um.
Probably the two, the two things Iwould love to talk about, like the,
um, art, obviously, um, we will bereleasing artery uh, applications.
Uh, we're gonna do the larger art grants.
The information will probablybe out in around March.
We are trying to allow, we're tryingto do it early enough that big large

(01:35:08):
art grants have at least six months,um, build time for their processes.
Um, we've also got the ignition grants,uh, which is, uh, the initiative there.
We're moving away from funding,specifically funding theme camps and,
uh, allowing anyone that attends, uh,at least the, the second event to, to

(01:35:29):
apply, to do things that aren't art, thatare community building, that are, uh,
creative, that are, don't fall under thetraditional umbrella of art installation.
Um, so we don't have a date for thatopening yet, but, um, again, it'll
probably be roughly six months in advance.
We're a bit less with the ignition grants.
Um, so we'll be putting informationabout, about exactly when they'll

(01:35:52):
open in the next couple of monthsand how, how to get involved and,
and funding requirements for those.
So keep, uh, keep tuned.

Stevan (01:36:00):
Okay.
Well thanks guys those, um,

Jamie (01:36:01):
so I was just gonna say thanks very much for having me.
I really appreciate it.

Terry (01:36:04):
Thanks so much for the opportunity, Stevan and PY thanks for, for running it.

Stevan (01:36:11):
Well, welcome to the debriefing segment of this episode.
Since you did really well in thebogan quiz, we thought my, we
thought we, we might get you backon as punishment or as a reward.

Bekah (01:36:21):
Fabulous.

Stevan (01:36:21):
For, for more mic time.
That's what you wanted.
What else should we talk about?

Bekah (01:36:25):
Hmm.

Stevan (01:36:26):
Well there were, there were a few things that I forgot
to mention or forgot to ask.
Some things like, uh, how manyvirgin burners there were?
Like how many first timersbreakdown in numbers?
Uh, how many people travel from Sydney?
I think there was a bunch of us.

Bekah (01:36:38):
Yeah.
I got, I got no idea.
We don't, we don't really poll people.
Um, maybe we should when we dothe ticket registration thing, you
know, like where you're coming from.
You know, it's pretty basic the,the ticket purchasing situation.
But there, there could be somemerit in capturing that data.
But again, it's whatare we gonna do with it?
Um, so yeah,

Stevan (01:36:57):
for example, how many like country Victorians there were
from Ballarat or was it Bendigo?
Things like that.
Well, maybe even how manyTeslas on the paddock?
I spotted about three Teslas.

Bekah (01:37:06):
Did you?

Stevan (01:37:08):
Yeah.

Bekah (01:37:09):
They're everywhere.
And the BYD

Stevan (01:37:10):
it's new option of getting, getting to the burn.
Yeah.

Bekah (01:37:12):
Yeah.
No.
Well, I, um.
Can't answer that question.
We don't track that informationas far as I'm aware.
But this is the first time I've been onthe board, so I probably have a bit more
visibility of that stuff this year round.
But yeah, there was, I mean, last year,well the year before last, there was
certainly a lot of locals that were there.
I know, because they came to my camp and,um, set themselves up and made themselves

(01:37:34):
very comfortable, um, which was nice.
They also brought like a, acharcuterie board and some booze.
That was nice.
But I, this year I was,where were they from?
Uh, they were in the, they were locals.
They were friends with Mick and Fee.
Um, and there was a large group,there was like 12 of them older,
but yeah, had never been to anythinglike that before and it was really
nice to just talk them through it.
Like it's not just a doof,it's not just a sex fest.

(01:37:56):
It's not just, you know, peoplegetting loose in the, in, in a paddock.
It's not like a BNS ball.
It's like so much more than that.
It was really cool to talk them throughthe ethos and, and, and why we do what
we do, why we put ourselves throughthis, you know, extended camping
situation with radical self-relianceand no creature comforts really.
Um, yeah, that was, it was good.

(01:38:16):
Some of them, um, I think tookthe Kool-Aid and got on board,
so I didn't see them this year.
I didn't see them in 24 though.
Uh, I was more really focused oncenter camp and I just hung out at
center camp the whole time really.
So I didn't really get to, um,explore who else was there.
Yeah.

Stevan (01:38:33):
And did you meet, so this year did you meet, uh, many first time burners?

Bekah (01:38:37):
Not really.
The ones that came through center campare pretty oay with the whole thing.
Um, I'm not sure that there are that manyfirst time burners that come, given that
it is still pretty underground and niche.
You have to kind of know people whoknow people to A, find out about it
and b feel comfortable to come along.
It can be quite intimidating to rock upto something if you don't know anyone

(01:38:58):
you know, and it can be pretty cliquey.
Um, so unless you've signed up fora shift or two, it can be hard.
Um, in saying that though, one of theguys that did center camp, it was his
first time burn, but he's been gonnafestivals for a long time and already
had a network of people that were there.
And, um, yeah, he did the lightingfor center camp, which was great.
So shout out to Dan if you're listening.

(01:39:19):
Thank you.
Yeah.

Stevan (01:39:23):
What else you wanna mention?

Bekah (01:39:24):
This, this year was great to get center camp off, off the ground.
We had a great stretch tent and wehad, uh, rugs and heaps of cushions.
We had so many cushions.
It was crazy.
Like my Jeep was absolutely jammedpacked when I picked them up from
the person who gave them to us.
And then like, I couldn'teven get me in the car.
It was pretty funny.
Um, and what else?

(01:39:46):
We had a great team of volunteers,again, first time that we've
done it at Underland, and lookingforward to expanding that in future.
So we're really hoping to get a littlebit of a jam tent happening in there.
People bringing their own instrumentsand turning it into more of like a, uh,
brackets and jam kind of place wherepeople might wanna do standup comedy
or, or present some spoken word poetryor, you know, do some weird improvised

(01:40:09):
dance or theater thing or whatever.
Um, bust out some rock classics,rock and roll classics.
But yeah, just providing a, an alternativespace to the other more, um, you know,
dance floor heavy spaces on the paddock.
That's a really big focus for, um, centrecamp, that it's not the same as the other
places because there's plenty of placesto, you know, dance the night away.

(01:40:30):
Not so many places to kick backand, you know, um, listen to someone
talking shit on the microphone
like this.
Yeah, I think, um, breakfastradio went quite well.
That was an interesting, um, first timeexperience, certainly for me and for, I'm
not sure if Danae and Terry had done thatbefore, but I think it worked quite well.

(01:40:51):
What do you think You were there?

Stevan (01:40:52):
Yeah.
It was fun.
It was fun to, uh, meet everyone in,in the early hours in the morning, you
know, when people were just, uh, justwaking up from yesterday's festivities.
We had some actually, uh, somepeople saying, well, that was a
bit noisy because the, the soundlevels traveled to their camp.
Like Yeah.
How it is with the paddock.
It was a bit undulating up and downthe hills, so that was interesting.
Um, they actually hurt us, but they, they,they enjoyed the banter, they enjoyed the,

(01:41:15):
the bullshit ness of, of breakfast radio.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the information thatwe provided as well.
So we, we weren't just talking shit.
We're also talking about, well, youknow, what's the weather like today?
And if we're gonna have a burnactually or not, and yeah.
What's happening and yeah.

Bekah (01:41:28):
Make sure you don't miss out on your sausage sizzle.

Stevan (01:41:31):
Yeah.
It's community service radio.

Bekah (01:41:33):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And funny, I, I liked, um, draggingpeople in who were walking past.
I thought that was really cute to justgrab people as they were, you know,
doing the Walk of Shame or the walk ofpride, whichever one you wanna call it.
Um, what are you doing?
Where have you been?
How's your morning?
That kind of thing.
Yeah.
It's a, i, it's a pitywe didn't record it.
'cause I think we could have gota lot of benefit out of listening

(01:41:54):
to that again, um, to see whatworked and what really didn't work.
But anyway, there's,yeah, there's something
to think about for.
For next year.
Yeah.
And
by the time we get there,we'll be, that was fun.
We'll be total pros having donethis a couple of times, you know?

Stevan (01:42:08):
Well, that's right.
Yeah.
Well, that's one of the thingsI'd actually wanna do is foster
kind of a, a community of, oftalkers, of conversationalists.
You know, like, um, usually it'sjust small talk, but there's room
out there to, to really connect.

Bekah (01:42:20):
Hmm, for sure.
If there's nothing that, um, burners likemore, more than us talk about burning and
burning culture, we absolutely love it.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just try to get us to shut up about it,

Stevan (01:42:32):
especially around the burn barrels.
Right.
Just throw more logs in.

Bekah (01:42:35):
That's it.

Stevan (01:42:36):
No one's going to bed.
Yeah,

Bekah (01:42:38):
I was just gonna say, just takes forever to put out a burn barrel
I'd, I'd love someone to come up witha, um, like an equation or a metric
to determine how much water it takesto extinguish a burn barrel to the,
um, you know, acceptable level ofextinguishment or whatever the word is.
Because it's would, I would've helped if Imust have, must have put 40 liters on, on

(01:42:59):
the one at center camp on that last night.
So this is such a waste of water.
But, um, anyway, it went out.

Stevan (01:43:04):
Well, would it help people bring like a scale?
Would it help people bring likea scale to measure the log, the
weightness, the density of the log?
And that'll give us arough estimate of timing.

Bekah (01:43:14):
There must be a, some sort of science behind it.

Stevan (01:43:18):
Yeah.

Bekah (01:43:19):
Like if there's, if there's that, that much coal, you're
gonna need that much water.
Yeah.
Or something.

Stevan (01:43:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we did have someremote recording issues.
Uh, I just wanna apologizeagain for, for that.
And we're still testing out the techin, in real time too, so, um, are there
any other apologies you wanna make?
Bekah?

Bekah (01:43:37):
Apologies.

Stevan (01:43:38):
Yeah, anything.
I mean, I've got one.
I mean, you know, I guess let's, I'm,I'm gonna preempt this apology right now.
You know, we've gotta apologizefor all the terrible gen Gen X
jokes and references that we mightdrop, you know, bring back the
Dunlop volleys and stuff like that.
I mean, we we're probably obscuringour younger listeners by dropping
all these Gen X references and jokes.
So, yeah.

(01:43:59):
Apologies for that.

Bekah (01:44:00):
I have, I have no shame.
I have no shame for

Stevan (01:44:02):
Gen Z. Sorry.
The, the Gen Z

Bekah (01:44:04):
for the age that I'm,

Stevan (01:44:05):
yeah, no shame.
No shame at all.
But, yeah.

Bekah (01:44:09):
Uh, why have you had some feedback that we, we were making far
too many, um, older people jokes?

Stevan (01:44:14):
No, no.
But just in case we mighttune, tune these people out.
There's tunes there out there.
Oh, they're not sure what,what's what dunlop vollies.

Bekah (01:44:24):
Gen, gen Z loves the nineties.
Absolutely loves the nineties.
So any reference to the nineties,I think that'll just lap that up.
It's like when we were in thenineties, we loved the seventies and
anything to do with the seventies

Stevan (01:44:34):
and the sixties.
Yeah, anything the sixtieswas just magical, we thought.
Yeah,

Bekah (01:44:38):
exactly right.
Like, so there's that, that, thatsense of nostalgia, um, for us.
But the sense of, you know, coolnessfor the, the younger folk potentially.
Like, I went to the town thisyear, I'm not sure if you're
familiar with that event.
Do you know the Town?
Yeah.
So that's,

Stevan (01:44:54):
yes.
I, yeah,

Bekah (01:44:55):
it's a little bit like a burn in that, you know, you participate,
things aren't just, you justdon't go along and watch a band.
There are lots of interactive activitiesand the theme this year was, well,
in December of 2024 was the nineties,and so everybody dressed in nineties
fashion and all the bands were doingcover songs from nineties bands.
So Rage Against the Machine and lotsof True hop and Massive Attack and, you

(01:45:18):
know, the Prodigy, et cetera, et cetera.
A lot of nineties hip hop was so good.

Stevan (01:45:21):
All the music that we grew up with,

Bekah (01:45:23):
oh, abs, it was so good.
And so, like those of us who were, youknow, of a certain vintage we're all
kicking back in our, uh, original threads.
And then there were kids therethat weren't even born yet
and who were experiencing thenineties for the first time.
So it was really, um, andinteresting, um, clash, which worked.
It was really, it was really cool.
Yeah.

(01:45:43):
Anyway, we're not, we're not here to talkabout the town, but I, I would plug that
no, as an event to go to if people areinterested because it was really cool.
It's a beautiful spot as well.

Stevan (01:45:53):
Well, I, I think this, that this episode it's gonna go to, to the
pool room anyway, it was good episode.
Uh, what, what did you think?
Yeah, what was discussed?
Yeah.

Bekah (01:46:01):
Uh, you know, probably some of the answers were a little bit long-winded,
and it did seem to be a bit of repetitionon some of the things we spoke about.
Um, and That's all right.
Just people get excited,
um, but it might not be thatinteresting for the listener.
Um, and you don't have to includethis in the recording either, just
you asking me, um, uh, it would'vebeen great to hear a bit more from

(01:46:22):
Narelle about her experiences.

Stevan (01:46:24):
Yeah.
She had some disconnection problems.
Yeah, we'll definitely like to get herback on and talk about the other passions.

Bekah (01:46:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And Jamie's always got a goodstory to tell, as is Terry.

Stevan (01:46:35):
Yeah, I, I enjoyed his, his talk about building relationships with
the towns folks and, you know, havingthat kind of, um, that kind of approval,
I guess, from the people that, thathosting us sort of thing, like allowing
us to, to experiment, allowing us to, tocontinue this kind of community space.
So that was interesting and, andit, and it also makes you feel

(01:46:57):
a bit more confident in terms ofinvesting your time and money into
a community or an organization.
So's what I've got out of it.

Bekah (01:47:04):
It's very important.
That the, that the local community,um, embrace Underland in much the
same way that some of those otherregional Victorian towns embrace
the duffs that come to them.
So, you know, you've gotLexton and, and Rainbow.
That was a really big part of theireconomic growth for the, for the area.
And the same with, um, Donald.
They have esoteric, like, youknow, 10,000 people come through

(01:47:25):
that town to go to that festival.
That's a lot of people and that'sa lot of money and a lot of impact
on local infrastructure too.
So that's something.
And the same thing with the big burn.
You know, 80,000 people go throughthose tiny little towns on the edge
of the BlackRock desert there andit's, it it can really And collecting

Stevan (01:47:42):
also Reno.

Bekah (01:47:43):
Exactly.
And, um, I mean, I dunno if, if youfollow some of the, the groups online,
but the dis like the, the chatter thatcomes up before the event of, you know,
all the trash that gets left along thehighway and, and the mess that gets left
in those little towns and people justdoing the wrong thing when they leave.
I think it's really important thatwe think about the impact of our
partying on the, um, the localfolk and the local environment.

(01:48:05):
I think it's really important and maybesomething that we don't do as well.
Um, but Underland is, is quite small,so we have definitely got room to grow
and, um, lots of opportunities to, youknow, educate and inform our, um, our
members about doing the right thing.

Stevan (01:48:20):
Yeah, I think that the, the Good Burner community does that, you
know, it's necessity, it's crucial.
It's crucial to have that rapportwith the, with the local people.

Bekah (01:48:29):
Mm, a hundred percent.

Stevan (01:48:31):
Would you like to tell us more about scorch nuts?
I want to hear like a little review.
Yeah.
Cool.
We didn't get a chance.
You just skimmed over it.
So,

Bekah (01:48:37):
yeah, it's always tricky to know how much detail to go
into, um, in an intro piece.
Look, scorch Nuts was my first burn, andit was a crazy idea that I had to just
go and throw myself in the deep end ina, you know, a tri-state regional burn.
A small one at that.
So 600 people.
Um, and I knew nobody, so, yeah, but that.

(01:48:57):
You know, there's a challengethat I presented to myself
and it really enjoyed it.
I, I reached out to theme campsbeforehand and said, Hey look,
I'm coming from Australia.
I dunno anybody, can I join a camp?
And, you know, they welcomed me withopen arms and, um, I signed up and
didn't, some shifts as a greater,

Stevan (01:49:15):
how big was the gathering?
How big was the burn?

Bekah (01:49:16):
600 people, so not very big.
Um, and it was, it was on amountaintop, um, which has been
raised by, um, like in the pa it hadbeen used for mining in the past.
So all the trees along the topthere had been all chopped down.
And, um, it's used for, um,events like this all the time.
It's quite tricky to get to.
It's kind of hard to find on the map.

(01:49:37):
It's definitely not a, um, you know,it's not heavily signposted or anything
like that, but it is a legitimateland piece of land that can be used
for these types of, um, events.
Um, it was really hot.
Like, you know, it's in,I think it was in May.
And so in the Midwest that'spretty stink and hot and humid.
And at nighttime it was still pretty warm.

(01:49:57):
Loads of mosquitoes.
The art was really cool.
Um, as I think I mentioned earlierthat they had the, um, the effigy
was in the shape of a, of asquirrel sitting on some acorns.
And once that had burnt down, then thesehuge explosions of fireworks went off.
Much like the big burn.
We don't do that here.
We don't have the firecrackers that gooff after the, um, the burn collapses.

(01:50:18):
Like the build collapses.

Stevan (01:50:19):
Do I still do it at Blazing Swan though?

Bekah (01:50:21):
The fireworks?

Stevan (01:50:22):
With the fireworks?

Bekah (01:50:22):
I actually can't comment.
'cause the last time Iwas not in a. State two.
I couldn't, I couldn't remember.
I couldn't comment on, I don't remember.
Um, but yeah, yeah, the, the BlazingSwan, um, s are amazing as well.
Um, but yeah, look, I would recommendanyone who's interested to explore, uh,
burn culture around the world, go toa regional and burners are a amazing

(01:50:47):
community worldwide that you can tap intoand say, Hey, I am coming and you know,
real burners Will, will welcome you.
They'll wanna hear about your experiences.
Um, one of the things that,

Stevan (01:50:57):
so you signed up for volunteering?

Bekah (01:50:58):
Yeah, I signed up as a greeter and ended up meeting a few people that way.
I also ended up camping with theLeave No Trace Crew, which was great.
And met Rangers, uh, and struckup a really strong friendship
with a couple of those.
And that was really helpfuljust to get the whole idea of
what Rangering is all about.
I was gonna say, yeah.
One of the things that a veteranBurner said to me at that event was,

(01:51:20):
it's really nice to have a someone newcoming to experience this event because
it helps us see it through your eyes.
And this is a burner who'd been going,you know them for many, many years.
And so they kind of geta little bit used to it.
And the magic of the, of the burn kindof wears off after a little bit of
time and you get a little bit jade, abit tired and you know, the politics

(01:51:41):
come up and blah, blah, blah and, youknow, all that stuff that happens.
But, um, this person was really, um.
Really touched by, uh, my enthusiasm andmy excitement and, you know, my sheer
astonishment at how amazing the event was.
And they shared that with me,which was a really nice, um, was
a really nice experience to have.
He's like, wow, I, I actually hadforgotten a lot of the things that

(01:52:03):
you're talking about, and they aretruly magical and a really special part
of this experience and, and the event.
So, um, he was very grateful to, youknow, listen to me going, oh my God.
Yeah.
I like is this is crazy.
This is amazing.
What do you mean, la la la la la.
You know, all the things.
So

Stevan (01:52:20):
yeah, I like how you mentioned that because I do love meeting you
burners and, and it's a way for me.
Yeah.
Like you said, everything becomestoo familiar, um, and tiring, I
guess with the sore eyes, I guess.
Um, site for sore eyes.
Yeah.
But you know, once you get to, to talkto them and you hear about some of
the things that they're experiencingwith fresh eyes, you know, it's, it's

(01:52:42):
something that hopefully, you know,you want it to rub off, off on you.
So yeah, meeting these new burnersactually sort of invigorates or
gives you a different perspectiveof the burn and also volunteering.
So you, you gate or greeters,you did range ring and that will
give you a different perspective.
Of the burn as well.

Bekah (01:52:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.
And then you figure out which ones you'rereally good at and which ones you know
you're not so good at, and how much effortyou want to, and energy you actually have.
Because I think sometimes we underestimateor overestimate how much capacity we have
and um, particularly if you are campingand the conditions are a bit, you know,
uncomfortable or you're tired and youknow, your drive was a little bit longer

(01:53:22):
or more difficult, you know, and bythe time you get there, you could be so
exhausted that all those shifts you signedup for, you know, just aren't realistic.
So that's something I wouldshare with would be burners.
Just, you know, don't underestimatehow tired you might be if you, uh,
sleep deprived and you know, maybehaven't drunk enough water or you've

(01:53:42):
been in the sun all day long, orjust even dealing with the wind.
It can be really exhausting.
Um, and then you have to goand be in a people facing role.
You know, it.
There's, there's just some thingsto consider about your self care and
making sure that, um, you're in thebest head space and physical space
possible to do those roles, becausesome of them are incredibly intense,
as you'd know, you know, and, and, andit's not exactly a, a walk in the park.

(01:54:04):
Some of those shifts arereally hard and yeah.
Um, experience helps, but sometimesyou just have to yeah, accept that it,
it might not be your best day on the,on the paddock, you know, and just
be gentle with yourself around that.
But it's like anything in life, you know?

Stevan (01:54:20):
Yeah.
Some of those, yeah.
Some of those volunteering roles,particularly the hard ones or
the difficult ones, or the onesthat's challenging to yourself.
I think you'll learn more from it.
I think there's a lot of transferrableskills that you can pick up.
Absolutely.
Probably the, the, the one on the topof my list is, uh, interpersonal skills.
How do you, uh, build these, uh,communication skills with your peers and,

(01:54:41):
and other people and, and other banners.
So that's what I enjoy.
I just wanna take out of it.
Yeah.
So, shall we talk about, so I'm, I'mpretty sure that listeners would also like
to tune into to this show for the, thelatest news and, and burning information.
So, shall we talk about, uh, theburner calendar for this year?

Bekah (01:54:59):
Well, um, sure.

Stevan (01:55:01):
Some of the important dates, uh, so the listeners can, can sort
of like track from what's, what'shappening for this year, 2025.
We have several burns in New Zealandand in Australia, and the main ones.
We've got Kiwi Burn, which is happening,it started on Wednesday, 22nd of January
two, and it finishes on Monday the 27th.
We've got Blazing Swan, which ishappening usually traditionally around

(01:55:24):
Easter time, Easter long weekend.

Bekah (01:55:27):
Yep.

Stevan (01:55:27):
So that's gonna be in April this year.
Do you know what the, thetheme of this year is?
Maybe of you?
You checked it out

Bekah (01:55:33):
of Swan.
I think it's cosmiccoincidence, which is cool.
Yeah.
That, that would be a good one.

Stevan (01:55:38):
Yeah.
The, and the dates for thatwould be Wednesday the 16th
to Tuesday the 22nd of April.

Bekah (01:55:43):
Yeah.
So that's definitely over the Easterlong weekend and school holidays.
Yes.
Well worth going to that one,those WA That's my home birth.
Definitely.
Definitely know how to do it properly.
Shout out to Church ofBelligerence if you're listening.
And intelligent deviance.
Yep.
Uh, yeah.
Then we've got burning seed.
Yeah.
In June long weekend.

(01:56:04):
The fourth to the 10th of June.

Stevan (01:56:06):
Which long weekend is that now?
Is that the King's birthday?
Yes.
Used to be the Queen's birthday.
Is that right?
For the Eastern States people?

Bekah (01:56:12):
Yes, that's right.
Yep.
And um, I think I saw the theme on socialmedia pop up, but I'll just check that.
Yeah, I thought I saw,

Stevan (01:56:20):
and then we've got third degree.

Bekah (01:56:22):
Oh yeah, that's in New South Wales.
Mm.
You guys are so lucky in New South Wales.

Stevan (01:56:26):
And that's gonna be, uh, Thursday, the 4th of September
to Monday the 8th of September.
So that's kinda like veryclose to the big burn.

Bekah (01:56:35):
Mm, exactly.

Stevan (01:56:36):
So could, there could be some traveling conflicts there
if people trying to get to both
and people have, people have,

Bekah (01:56:43):
yeah.
Yeah.
You could spend, you could do a whole yearof just traveling around the world, going
to burn related events, that's for sure.

Stevan (01:56:52):
Yeah.

Bekah (01:56:52):
I mean, and, and this list is not even, um, yeah, it doesn't include all
the, the side events that happen as well.
The, the fundraisersand the, you know Yeah.
The community events that pop up.

Stevan (01:57:03):
I think once we get the hang of, of, of podcasting the show, we'll
have more details in terms of the smallevents, the fundraisers and to, and the
made up burner pubs and stuff like that.
So, and then Underland,you guys got a date?
Yeah, Thursday, 25th of Septemberto Monday, the 29th of September.
And the theme is pop as we talked about.

Bekah (01:57:21):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's gonna be fun.

Stevan (01:57:24):
And there's also a new burn calendar to add to
that list is the Tassie burn.
So we'll be talking more about that.

Bekah (01:57:30):
I'm so excited about that one.
Does it have a name?

Stevan (01:57:33):
Not quite sure, but yeah.
Name.
And is there a name yet?

Bekah (01:57:36):
Is there any burn event that happens in, um, south Australia?
I always wondered about that.

Stevan (01:57:41):
That's a good question.
Nothing yet.

Bekah (01:57:43):
Nothing yet.
'cause of, yeah, I've met several burniefolks from that neck of the woods.
It would be good to talk about,um, an online session that we have
coming up on Tuesday, February the18th, an online session from eight
till 9:00 PM This one is an like aninformation session put on by Common
Arts Victoria, and it's all about, uh,wood lovers paralysis, uh, which is a

(01:58:07):
syndrome that affects some people afterthey've taken psilocybin mushrooms.
And it can be quite scary for the peopleimpacted by that as well as their friends.
So this information session, uh, willtalk people through, you know, what
to look for and, and what to do ifsomeone in your group or yourself
experiences would lovers paralysis.

(01:58:27):
Um, from what I gather about it, it'snot something you can easily identify
by looking at, um, the mushroom, soI'll definitely be coming to that one.
I'm really interested.
It's a, a fairly new risk or, um, concern.
I did hear about it earlier last year,

Stevan (01:58:42):
especially when you're out there in the Yeah, especially
when you're out there in the, thecountryside or the outback of Australia

Bekah (01:58:47):
for sure.
And apparently it's only, um,it only happens in Australia,
so I dunno how accurate thatinformation is, but I'm gonna go
along and bust some myths around it.
Um, let's have a look at that one.
Yeah, it's, it's public.
Anyone can attend.
Uh, it's delivered via CommonArts Vic, um, via Zoom.

(01:59:08):
And um, there'll be a panel ofpeople who have experienced, would
lovers paralysis firsthand aswell as people who treated them.
So first responders, medics for example.
And there is also gonna be expertsin harm minimization and toxicology.
So a really nice, well-rounded panel ofpeople who've had firsthand experience

(01:59:28):
and those that know what to do.
Um, so it sounds like aworthwhile event to get along to.
And for one hour it, it'llprobably be recorded as well.
Yeah.
Cool.
I would say,

Stevan (01:59:37):
yeah.
Cool.
So we're gonna provide all those,uh, information in the show notes.
So I just wanna plug the show notes aswell as the website and social media links
for the listeners that are not familiarwith how podcast works or podcasting.
Um, there is a show notes sectionof the podcast and or detail all the
links and all the other informationthat was talked about in this episode.

(02:00:00):
We also have a mailbag.
So gonna launch that.
And this is for feedback as well as, andstick, stick, whatever you wanna stickers.

Bekah (02:00:07):
Send swag.

Stevan (02:00:08):
Yeah, we will get that.
Uh, but yeah, whatever you guyswant to comment or talk about or
send us a voice message as well.
Uh, the, the email addressis mailbag@bonzopodcast.net.
Yeah, check that out.
Our website as well.
And we have transcripts for this podcast,this episode, and future episodes as well.

(02:00:29):
So for the people that prefer to actuallyspeed read rather than listening,
we have that available as well.

Bekah (02:00:35):
Awesome.
Are we thinking of gettinginternational guests or people from
other parts of the world on the show?

Stevan (02:00:42):
Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely.
But the concentration willbe just bonza at the moment.
Mm-hmm.
So the idea is to get sort of likecatalog of all the burner communities
and the, and the burner voices.
So yeah, definitely, um, wouldtalk more to international burners
and international regionals.
Yeah.
Looking forward to that as well.

Bekah (02:01:03):
Yeah, it's exciting we're, it's really picking
up in this part of the world.

Stevan (02:01:08):
Yeah.
There's a lot of, a lot ofgood things to look forward to.

Bekah (02:01:10):
Are you going to any, just before you, um, move on, are you
going to anything this year, Stevan?
What's your calendar looking like?

Stevan (02:01:17):
So this year will be i'll, I'll be concentrating on, uh,
getting Burning seed happening.
Again, I'm not part of any, any committeeor, or any orgs doing that, but I'm
looking forward to getting the community,you know, embracing community again.
Underland is also on the calendar andI want to check out, probably Tassie
Burn, see what they're up to as well.
Mm. But we'll go visit the Pact crewthat the People's Art Collective of

(02:01:40):
Tasmania and have a chat with them.
And also wanna find out moreabout our Asian regionals, such
as Dragon Burn and Japan Burns.
So that'll be interesting.

Bekah (02:01:50):
Are there any burns in Thailand or Malaysia, Bali that you know of?

Stevan (02:01:55):
Yeah, these, these are, these are definitely potentials for
emerging kind of communities there.
Mm. But I don't think there are, Idon't think there are, or, or any
expats that's actually living therethat's, that's starting anything
perhaps maybe just a local meetup.
But yeah, there's potential there.

Bekah (02:02:10):
Yeah.
It just starts with a,starts with a conversation.

Stevan (02:02:13):
Yeah.
That's right.
It just starts with an idea.
Alright, so let's close this episodeand, uh, thanks for dropping by and
sticking around for the debriefing.

Bekah (02:02:23):
My pleasure.

Stevan (02:02:24):
The next episode, we'll just give a little preview about the next episode.
Uh, we'll be talking to some kiwiburners and they were on site when
we actually had a chat with 'em,so it was just, it was really good.
Made me a bit homesick listeningto the background noises and, uh,
listen to talking about, uh, what'shappening at Kiwi Burn this year.
So, yeah, stay tuned.
Um,

Bekah (02:02:41):
awesome.
Excellent.

Stevan (02:02:43):
Alright Bekah.
Thanks for, um, please joinus again for the next episode.
So I would love to,love to have you back on
and, uh, yeah,

Bekah (02:02:50):
no worries.

Stevan (02:02:50):
We'll be hearing more from you.

Bekah (02:02:52):
You bet.
Thanks guys.

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