December 17, 2024 • 17 mins
What does it mean to come face to face with failure as a student at an 'elite' school? What advice do alumni, advisors, and professionals have to share about wellness, academic competition, and perfectionism? And is there a secret to surviving in today's age of a dangerous productivity culture? Can you come back from burnout? Tune in :) - Maija Cruz - Cari Costanzo - Thomas Curran - 10% Happier Podcast - Nowhere to Run instrumental - Stegosaurus Rex - Symphonia IX Instrumental - Current Joys - Hail, Stanford, Hail - Stanford Choir
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cassie (00:00):
Dread filled my body.
My mind is blank.
My hands are sweaty.
The pen is slipping outta my grip.
It clatters onto the tableand I can barely breathe.
That's all I can do to try not to panic.
'cause hundreds of dollarshave been invested into me
being able to pass this test.
(00:21):
But for some reason, I can'tunderstand a single thing on the page.
Not the answers, not even the call.
Question.
I feel dumb, like maybe I don't belong.
It's a feeling I've been ignoringever since I came to Stanford.
I knew I was exhausted and burnt out.
I swallowed the productivitypill hole, and it didn't make me
(00:43):
superhuman like I hoped, made methink of dropping outta Stanford.
I wanted to know what my options were.
I sat down with someone whoknew a lot about dropping out or
stopping out at Stanford, calls it.
There's no such thing as dropping outhere because you can come back anytime.
Maija (01:02):
I did not know what Stanford was coming in.
I had no idea it was a good schooluntil I sat in NSO and I heard the dean
say we were the Harvard of the West.
And I panicked.
I was put on academic probationduring freshman year because I had.
Six different family deaths.
In the course of the first three quartersI was on campus, so I was flying home
(01:22):
every two weeks for a funeral for closefamily members, my grandmother, my aunt,
my cousin, just very close human beings.
Cassie (01:30):
This is Maya.
She came to Stanford back in 2010, butfrom the beginning she found it almost.
Impossible to keep up with everythingthat was happening in her classes in life
with the grief of losing so much family.
Maija (01:43):
There were all sorts of reasons why I did not fulfill the requirements
because I was flying home all the time.
I was suppressing grief.
I took in complete.
I was having a really hard time.
Cassie (01:54):
Our second year wasn't any better.
When she withdrew from a class that falland didn't meet the minimum requirements
for probation, she was suspended.
She got the news while I was sittingin one of her lecture classes.
I just
Maija (02:07):
sat through the second half of the lecture trying to figure
out, okay, what do I do to appeal?
How do I talk to my academic advisor?
How long do I have to move out?
Cassie (02:17):
And when she got back to her dorm, she was already locked out.
She had to get someone else to let herin so she could get her belongings.
My ID card had
Maija (02:25):
already been turned off.
That is the most tiny feeling tohave to walk into the housing office
and say, I need a temporary badge toget in because my ID ISS turned off.
Otherwise, your ID turned off.
You're not an enrolled student.
Well, I am, but I was suspended andyou gotta say that in front of somebody
and you have to say it out loud beforeyou even had time to process it.
But you need this badge so youcan get into your dorm, so you can
(02:47):
get your stuff, because I have tomove out by the end of the week.
So I packed up my things and my familydidn't have that kind of money to just.
Buy a ticket.
So everyone was just pooling cash totry to get me a one-way ticket home.
I, I slept on the couch down in a loungefor like two days because I was waiting to
go home and I flew home on borrowed cash.
Cassie (03:08):
Dealing with one family death and the span of the first year of
college would be difficult for anyone.
I can't imagine dealing with six.
Still looking at Maya's case, it'seasy to draw a couple similarities to
her mindset with those of my peers,whether it's struggling with deaths
in the family, severe injuries, mentalhealth and wellness struggles, or
(03:31):
juggling far too many extracurricularson top of a full course load.
We do our best to see the quarterthrough to the end, and it feels
like there's no option but through.
Maija (03:45):
I get it.
I had it coming.
I totally understand.
I was not well, and I did needto take a break and step back.
I look back at it from this perspective ofnow I have this experience and I have this
knowledge of having worked in differentlevels and layers of administration,
and I can look back now and see.
I fell through the cracks of a systemthat I think really operated with the
(04:08):
best of intention, but it was stilloperating from a place of policy.
First.
I.
And person Second.
My experience was years ago, and Iknow for a fact things have changed
enormously since then, but you stillhave a person who's sitting with the
letter who is getting whiplash fromgrind culture into you're no longer
(04:33):
one of us for the next 12 months.
Cassie (04:35):
Now, a lot has changed since Maya was a student at Stanford.
There are more safeguards tosupport students who fall behind.
To learn more about these changes, Ispoke with Carrie, who was a Stanford
student back in the nineties, andwho's been an academic advising
director at Stanford for 16 years.
Carrie (04:51):
I'm Carrie Costanzo repeatedly.
You fall below a 2.0 and 12 units.
Typically for more than three quarters,you can be suspended for a year.
We do talk to students andtry and figure out what their
challenges are to help accommodate.
You can imagine challengesmight be different.
Students
Cassie (05:08):
can also reduce their course load if they have health issues or.
Qualify through the Office of AccessibleEducation, which allows 'em to take
eight units instead of 12, which meansthat if something's going on and you
really need time off, but you can'tgo home because you don't have access
to certain resources like there is atStanford, there's a way to still stay
(05:29):
here, but also give yourself the timethat you need to take care of yourself.
Carrie (05:35):
Oftentimes when student is having academic challenges, it's because it's not
because intellectually they're not capableof doing the academic work at Stanford.
It's usually because there is somekind of a, another personal challenge,
a family issue, a health and wellnesschallenge that's impacting their
ability to focus on schoolwork.
Cassie (05:54):
But Carrie said that Stanford isn't the only thing that has
changed in the time she's been here.
Carrie (05:59):
When I came to Stanford in the late nineties, I think
the acceptance rate was 20%.
Now the acceptance rate at Stanford is 4%.
Therefore, students have to do a lotmore to get here, and by the time
they get here, they are probably moreburnt out than a decade or two ago
when it wasn't so, so challenging and.
Suffocating to make itto an elite university.
(06:21):
So
Cassie (06:21):
even by the start of freshman year, a good amount of us are already
approaching burnout from all theeffort we put into getting accepted.
And that drive to succeedisn't unique to Stanford.
It's a reflection of a societaltrend that goes back decades.
Thomas (06:36):
In 1989.
You see a stark rise in levels ofperfectionism among young people.
Cassie (06:42):
This is Thomas Curran, a psychology professor at the London School
of Economics, an author of a study thatcompared perfectionism across generations.
Thomas (06:52):
Conformity is a really important part of our evolutionary history, and
if we live in a world where everybodyelse is perfect, because society and
the world around us has come to expectmore of us and all we ever see is
perfection, then of course, even thoughthat's completely irrational ideal,
we're gonna start to think that societyis very rude and it's very root is a
sense of deficit, a sense of lack, asense that we really don't feel like
(07:16):
we're good enough and as a consequence.
Our whole existence really isto try to prove to other people
that we're not flawed, that we'rehyperfunctional, that we are competent.
Cassie (07:25):
Two summers ago, I applied for a summer internship and a
study abroad program in Koreawhere I hope to walk the streets.
My grandmother, my harmony, walked almost60 years before I fell in love with Korea.
And then I started mystudy abroad program.
It was an intense andnonstop and incredible.
Experience.
(07:46):
I was on such a high coming backfrom Korea that I, it didn't
occur to me that I'd need a break.
When I returned, I came backto a heavy load of classes.
My part-time job,various extracurriculars.
I didn't factor in time for adjustment.
I also didn't prioritize my stillongoing knee recovery that summer
from tearing all my ligaments,my knee, while rock climbing.
(08:07):
I have a whole history, which meant I'dbe all the more diligent with physical
therapy when I returned school, but I was.
Tired.
Everyone around me was going nonstop,and I wanted to be productive like them.
So I started pullingAllnighters every week.
But instead of gettingahead, I was falling behind.
I was exhausted.
I had to skip class to finishwork, and cherry on top was
(08:29):
bawling in front of my ta.
Embarrassing, right?
And then I went a winterbreak, which was paradise.
Got to sleep.
Be with my family, turn off my brain.
But in the last few days that thatfeeling crept up on me again, dread.
Didn't wanna go back, butthere was no other choice.
(08:51):
Or was there
Carrie (08:52):
About eight, eight years ago, I was working with a
student who was a sophomore andhe was just feeling burnt out.
As many Stanford studentsdo, you all work so hard.
To get into a school likeStanford, and many of you have
been working hard since you know,seventh grade to plan it all out.
So you get into a great college.
(09:13):
Just the pressure of everythingwas really hitting him.
Cassie (09:16):
Remember Thomas Curran from earlier, he describes
how competitive schools in.
The pressure from parents are intertwinedwith the seeds of perfectionism.
Thomas (09:26):
Parents are seeing that it's becoming more competitive to
get into college, and so they'repassing that pressure onto kids.
In the case of things like helicopteringbehaviors and high expectations, jobs
become more insecure, and the hassleand growing culture that pervades
the workplace right now is feedingperfectionistic tendencies too.
Cassie (09:43):
This contextualizes the story as we see what plays out in a not so typical
parent student encounter with Carrie.
And by
Carrie (09:50):
the time students get here, sometimes they're just exhausted.
So this was the case with this student.
He had been struggling withsome depression and anxiety.
He was feeling so muchpressure to declare his major.
He, he really wanted to taketime off and stop out, but his
parents didn't want him to.
Cassie (10:07):
So this boy's dad, who's a lawyer.
Was worried about whether ornot his son was gonna return if
he took a year off from school.
But after a few phone calls withCarrie, with her explanation
of a leave of absence, soundingsomething like we have students
Carrie (10:20):
who leave every year.
They go, they're burnt out, they take sometime, they work, they find themselves.
Cassie (10:27):
The boys' dad finally agree to the son's leave of absence.
Carrie said that he didn't do anyinternship, but rather took the time
as a break, did some interesting jobsand other things he'd always wanted
to do, when in of itself is a feat.
Other students aren't so lucky.
They may not have understandingparents that will let them take.
(10:47):
A quarter off or a supportive homeenvironment or access to mental
health resources like the ones atschool, like therapy or the spiritual
wellness center, or physical wellnesspractices like meditation and
yoga classes like they have here.
By the way, if I'm not sponsored, uh,just feel the need to share that, but
that's why they have the eight unit healthaccommodation now, which is really great.
(11:10):
But back to the story, theincredible part happened after
the student came back from leave.
Carrie (11:17):
At the end of the year, he came back and everything had changed.
And when he returned he just seemedso much healthier and so much happier.
And lo and behold, his dad called me,said, I wanted to let you know that my
son, it's like he's new person and nowthe light has returned to his eyes.
He's the kid I always knew.
He's.
Refreshed.
(11:38):
He's happy.
He's ready to go.
And I thought to myself, what theheck am I after I saw my son take a
year off from college and just refreshhis whole life and change his whole
outlook by just taking a break, andI saw what that did for him, that
it made me question my path in life.
Cassie (11:58):
18 years old coming into school, forcing ourselves down a track that we
are not even sure we actually really like.
Is there a different way?
Is there an alternative
Carrie (12:07):
to this?
It made me question, I went to undergrad,then I went to law school, then I became
a lawyer, and I've just been on thisnonstop treadmill and just going and
going and going and I'm miserable in myjob and I decided to take a page outta
my son's book and take a leave of absencefrom my law job, and now I am just.
(12:27):
Siding on a whole new career path.
I'm pivoting.
I'm changing my life.
So this dad actually became inspiredby his own son taking a leave of
absence, and it really encouraged himto rethink his career goals and to
realize that he was just following apath that had been kind of prescribed
by his parents and he wasn't happy.
(12:49):
And so it gave him courage to justdo something new with his life.
Cassie (12:53):
Insane story, right?
Better late than ever.
My junior year after I came backmore burnt than ever after Korea,
and I was extremely homesick.
I could already feel the stress descendupon me the second I got to campus.
I already had assignments to finish.
I thought would love to take a break.
(13:13):
Must be nice, but not for me.
Ultimately, I was too blinded by my owninsecurities to take a leave of absence.
I thought that taking a break was only forpeople struggling with physical or mental
health issues, or people that receivedsome insane offer to build a startup.
The year prior, I had a severe kneeinjury, which honestly would've
(13:36):
warranted taking a leave ofabsence, but my mom encouraged me.
Stay in school was a really good idea.
But it made the thought of taking a leaveof absence in the future, unimaginable,
because if I didn't take a leave off,then what reason could I have in taking
it off when there was no extenuatingcircumstance, I was just burnt out.
(13:57):
Guess what?
Taking a leave of absencefor wellness is more common.
Carrie (14:02):
In any given year, I work with let's say, 20 students who
are gonna take a leave of absence.
About 10 of them would behealth and wellness related, and
maybe 10 would be work related.
The work related might be an aninternship opportunity, or it
might just be that they wanna takesome time off to earn some money.
Cassie (14:22):
You think this is gonna end with me telling you how awesome and
life-changing my leave of absence was.
I really wish I could, butthe truth is I am a hypocrite.
You'd think I learned my lessonafter junior fall quarter.
I didn't.
No.
I haven't continued to pullallnighters and cry in front
of my TAs, luckily, thank God.
But also, I didn't slowdown my pace at all.
(14:44):
I went on school trip for spring break,and then I went to Korea to do that.
Intensive 140 hour long.
Study program, which iswhere I flunked that test.
Oh my gosh.
I can't believe I'm admitting that.
I was taking a class at university,one at private academy and
another private tutoring class.
I was also taking a leadership coursein this project, which I was having to
(15:04):
do interviews for and Zoom meetings forbefore my back to back classes, which all
made me realize, oh wait, I'm actuallydoing a lot of stuff and I actually just
don't have enough time to study and do.
All the things that I need todo, take a leave of absence.
It's what I wish I did.
I wish I did it, but by summertime Ialready had applied to be a FR ra, so I
(15:30):
already committed to the year of being aStanford as as an ra, or else I probably
would've taken some time off this year.
However, doing this podcast has beenreally helpful for me to reflect.
I don't regret being an ra.
Because it's been a great experienceand I wanna help students like Maya.
I just wanna be here and pass on adviceand support kids when they need it.
(15:50):
Because I know how hard it is toresist the productivity mindset,
the one that tells you to take asmany classes as possible and load
up your plate as much as you can.
Don't try to just fast track it andthen you lose sense of what it actually
means to be a kid growing into an adult.
Enjoy your time while you're young andyou, you're not in the workforce and you
(16:11):
actually have to work a nine to five,you're gonna be wishing you were young
again and, and traveling and doing allthe things that you could have done at
Stanford or you could have done at school.
So here's a little gauge.
Are you missing class, missing sleep,missing due dates or extension due dates?
That once happened to me.
It was bad.
You think this quarter was the worst.
(16:32):
I'll never load my schedule up again.
But then you do it again.
Or maybe you're thinking it'snot that bad, but you're still
feeling like all you do is workand time is just passing you by.
Do you feel exhausted beforethe quarter even starts?
Can you really call yourself productive?
If you're stretching yourself sothin, you can't even give your.
Family, friends, whoever time, youdon't need me to spell it out for you.
(16:56):
Just so you know.
Even if you do try to run yourselfdown like a machine, your laptops,
they break, they lag, they shut down.
All the bad stuff happensusually at the most inconvenient
times, but what do you do?
You press sleep, you turn it off,shut it down, then you restart it.
Even your machine needs rest too.
That we have really consider a break.
(17:16):
This podcast wouldn't be possiblewithout the wonderful help
from the SSP production team.
My mentor, Laura Joyce Davis,and the other mentors and
storytellers, a part of this cohort.
Also, huge thanks to Maya Cruz.
Carrie Costanzo and Thomas Curran,who spoke on today's episode.
Also features music from, fromthe instrumental of No More to
(17:39):
Run by Stegosaurus Rex in theinstrumental of Symphonia nine.
By current joys and of course,thanks to you for listening.
It's love.
Cassie.
We're Stanford Cardinal, right?
Right.
Stanford Cardinal.
Right, right.
The trees make sales.
I dunno.
Well, let's find out.
Dread filled my body.
My mind is blank.
My hands are sweaty.
The pen is slipping outta my grip.
It clatters onto the tableand I can barely breathe.
That's all I can do to try not to panic.
'cause hundreds of dollarshave been invested into me
being able to pass this test.
(00:21):
But for some reason, I can'tunderstand a single thing on the page.
Not the answers, not even the call.
Question.
I feel dumb, like maybe I don't belong.
It's a feeling I've been ignoringever since I came to Stanford.
I knew I was exhausted and burnt out.
I swallowed the productivitypill hole, and it didn't make me
(00:43):
superhuman like I hoped, made methink of dropping outta Stanford.
I wanted to know what my options were.
I sat down with someone whoknew a lot about dropping out or
stopping out at Stanford, calls it.
There's no such thing as dropping outhere because you can come back anytime.
Maija (01:02):
I did not know what Stanford was coming in.
I had no idea it was a good schooluntil I sat in NSO and I heard the dean
say we were the Harvard of the West.
And I panicked.
I was put on academic probationduring freshman year because I had.
Six different family deaths.
In the course of the first three quartersI was on campus, so I was flying home
(01:22):
every two weeks for a funeral for closefamily members, my grandmother, my aunt,
my cousin, just very close human beings.
Cassie (01:30):
This is Maya.
She came to Stanford back in 2010, butfrom the beginning she found it almost.
Impossible to keep up with everythingthat was happening in her classes in life
with the grief of losing so much family.
Maija (01:43):
There were all sorts of reasons why I did not fulfill the requirements
because I was flying home all the time.
I was suppressing grief.
I took in complete.
I was having a really hard time.
Cassie (01:54):
Our second year wasn't any better.
When she withdrew from a class that falland didn't meet the minimum requirements
for probation, she was suspended.
She got the news while I was sittingin one of her lecture classes.
I just
Maija (02:07):
sat through the second half of the lecture trying to figure
out, okay, what do I do to appeal?
How do I talk to my academic advisor?
How long do I have to move out?
Cassie (02:17):
And when she got back to her dorm, she was already locked out.
She had to get someone else to let herin so she could get her belongings.
My ID card had
Maija (02:25):
already been turned off.
That is the most tiny feeling tohave to walk into the housing office
and say, I need a temporary badge toget in because my ID ISS turned off.
Otherwise, your ID turned off.
You're not an enrolled student.
Well, I am, but I was suspended andyou gotta say that in front of somebody
and you have to say it out loud beforeyou even had time to process it.
But you need this badge so youcan get into your dorm, so you can
(02:47):
get your stuff, because I have tomove out by the end of the week.
So I packed up my things and my familydidn't have that kind of money to just.
Buy a ticket.
So everyone was just pooling cash totry to get me a one-way ticket home.
I, I slept on the couch down in a loungefor like two days because I was waiting to
go home and I flew home on borrowed cash.
Cassie (03:08):
Dealing with one family death and the span of the first year of
college would be difficult for anyone.
I can't imagine dealing with six.
Still looking at Maya's case, it'seasy to draw a couple similarities to
her mindset with those of my peers,whether it's struggling with deaths
in the family, severe injuries, mentalhealth and wellness struggles, or
(03:31):
juggling far too many extracurricularson top of a full course load.
We do our best to see the quarterthrough to the end, and it feels
like there's no option but through.
Maija (03:45):
I get it.
I had it coming.
I totally understand.
I was not well, and I did needto take a break and step back.
I look back at it from this perspective ofnow I have this experience and I have this
knowledge of having worked in differentlevels and layers of administration,
and I can look back now and see.
I fell through the cracks of a systemthat I think really operated with the
(04:08):
best of intention, but it was stilloperating from a place of policy.
First.
I.
And person Second.
My experience was years ago, and Iknow for a fact things have changed
enormously since then, but you stillhave a person who's sitting with the
letter who is getting whiplash fromgrind culture into you're no longer
(04:33):
one of us for the next 12 months.
Cassie (04:35):
Now, a lot has changed since Maya was a student at Stanford.
There are more safeguards tosupport students who fall behind.
To learn more about these changes, Ispoke with Carrie, who was a Stanford
student back in the nineties, andwho's been an academic advising
director at Stanford for 16 years.
Carrie (04:51):
I'm Carrie Costanzo repeatedly.
You fall below a 2.0 and 12 units.
Typically for more than three quarters,you can be suspended for a year.
We do talk to students andtry and figure out what their
challenges are to help accommodate.
You can imagine challengesmight be different.
Students
Cassie (05:08):
can also reduce their course load if they have health issues or.
Qualify through the Office of AccessibleEducation, which allows 'em to take
eight units instead of 12, which meansthat if something's going on and you
really need time off, but you can'tgo home because you don't have access
to certain resources like there is atStanford, there's a way to still stay
(05:29):
here, but also give yourself the timethat you need to take care of yourself.
Carrie (05:35):
Oftentimes when student is having academic challenges, it's because it's not
because intellectually they're not capableof doing the academic work at Stanford.
It's usually because there is somekind of a, another personal challenge,
a family issue, a health and wellnesschallenge that's impacting their
ability to focus on schoolwork.
Cassie (05:54):
But Carrie said that Stanford isn't the only thing that has
changed in the time she's been here.
Carrie (05:59):
When I came to Stanford in the late nineties, I think
the acceptance rate was 20%.
Now the acceptance rate at Stanford is 4%.
Therefore, students have to do a lotmore to get here, and by the time
they get here, they are probably moreburnt out than a decade or two ago
when it wasn't so, so challenging and.
Suffocating to make itto an elite university.
(06:21):
So
Cassie (06:21):
even by the start of freshman year, a good amount of us are already
approaching burnout from all theeffort we put into getting accepted.
And that drive to succeedisn't unique to Stanford.
It's a reflection of a societaltrend that goes back decades.
Thomas (06:36):
In 1989.
You see a stark rise in levels ofperfectionism among young people.
Cassie (06:42):
This is Thomas Curran, a psychology professor at the London School
of Economics, an author of a study thatcompared perfectionism across generations.
Thomas (06:52):
Conformity is a really important part of our evolutionary history, and
if we live in a world where everybodyelse is perfect, because society and
the world around us has come to expectmore of us and all we ever see is
perfection, then of course, even thoughthat's completely irrational ideal,
we're gonna start to think that societyis very rude and it's very root is a
sense of deficit, a sense of lack, asense that we really don't feel like
(07:16):
we're good enough and as a consequence.
Our whole existence really isto try to prove to other people
that we're not flawed, that we'rehyperfunctional, that we are competent.
Cassie (07:25):
Two summers ago, I applied for a summer internship and a
study abroad program in Koreawhere I hope to walk the streets.
My grandmother, my harmony, walked almost60 years before I fell in love with Korea.
And then I started mystudy abroad program.
It was an intense andnonstop and incredible.
Experience.
(07:46):
I was on such a high coming backfrom Korea that I, it didn't
occur to me that I'd need a break.
When I returned, I came backto a heavy load of classes.
My part-time job,various extracurriculars.
I didn't factor in time for adjustment.
I also didn't prioritize my stillongoing knee recovery that summer
from tearing all my ligaments,my knee, while rock climbing.
(08:07):
I have a whole history, which meant I'dbe all the more diligent with physical
therapy when I returned school, but I was.
Tired.
Everyone around me was going nonstop,and I wanted to be productive like them.
So I started pullingAllnighters every week.
But instead of gettingahead, I was falling behind.
I was exhausted.
I had to skip class to finishwork, and cherry on top was
(08:29):
bawling in front of my ta.
Embarrassing, right?
And then I went a winterbreak, which was paradise.
Got to sleep.
Be with my family, turn off my brain.
But in the last few days that thatfeeling crept up on me again, dread.
Didn't wanna go back, butthere was no other choice.
(08:51):
Or was there
Carrie (08:52):
About eight, eight years ago, I was working with a
student who was a sophomore andhe was just feeling burnt out.
As many Stanford studentsdo, you all work so hard.
To get into a school likeStanford, and many of you have
been working hard since you know,seventh grade to plan it all out.
So you get into a great college.
(09:13):
Just the pressure of everythingwas really hitting him.
Cassie (09:16):
Remember Thomas Curran from earlier, he describes
how competitive schools in.
The pressure from parents are intertwinedwith the seeds of perfectionism.
Thomas (09:26):
Parents are seeing that it's becoming more competitive to
get into college, and so they'repassing that pressure onto kids.
In the case of things like helicopteringbehaviors and high expectations, jobs
become more insecure, and the hassleand growing culture that pervades
the workplace right now is feedingperfectionistic tendencies too.
Cassie (09:43):
This contextualizes the story as we see what plays out in a not so typical
parent student encounter with Carrie.
And by
Carrie (09:50):
the time students get here, sometimes they're just exhausted.
So this was the case with this student.
He had been struggling withsome depression and anxiety.
He was feeling so muchpressure to declare his major.
He, he really wanted to taketime off and stop out, but his
parents didn't want him to.
Cassie (10:07):
So this boy's dad, who's a lawyer.
Was worried about whether ornot his son was gonna return if
he took a year off from school.
But after a few phone calls withCarrie, with her explanation
of a leave of absence, soundingsomething like we have students
Carrie (10:20):
who leave every year.
They go, they're burnt out, they take sometime, they work, they find themselves.
Cassie (10:27):
The boys' dad finally agree to the son's leave of absence.
Carrie said that he didn't do anyinternship, but rather took the time
as a break, did some interesting jobsand other things he'd always wanted
to do, when in of itself is a feat.
Other students aren't so lucky.
They may not have understandingparents that will let them take.
(10:47):
A quarter off or a supportive homeenvironment or access to mental
health resources like the ones atschool, like therapy or the spiritual
wellness center, or physical wellnesspractices like meditation and
yoga classes like they have here.
By the way, if I'm not sponsored, uh,just feel the need to share that, but
that's why they have the eight unit healthaccommodation now, which is really great.
(11:10):
But back to the story, theincredible part happened after
the student came back from leave.
Carrie (11:17):
At the end of the year, he came back and everything had changed.
And when he returned he just seemedso much healthier and so much happier.
And lo and behold, his dad called me,said, I wanted to let you know that my
son, it's like he's new person and nowthe light has returned to his eyes.
He's the kid I always knew.
He's.
Refreshed.
(11:38):
He's happy.
He's ready to go.
And I thought to myself, what theheck am I after I saw my son take a
year off from college and just refreshhis whole life and change his whole
outlook by just taking a break, andI saw what that did for him, that
it made me question my path in life.
Cassie (11:58):
18 years old coming into school, forcing ourselves down a track that we
are not even sure we actually really like.
Is there a different way?
Is there an alternative
Carrie (12:07):
to this?
It made me question, I went to undergrad,then I went to law school, then I became
a lawyer, and I've just been on thisnonstop treadmill and just going and
going and going and I'm miserable in myjob and I decided to take a page outta
my son's book and take a leave of absencefrom my law job, and now I am just.
(12:27):
Siding on a whole new career path.
I'm pivoting.
I'm changing my life.
So this dad actually became inspiredby his own son taking a leave of
absence, and it really encouraged himto rethink his career goals and to
realize that he was just following apath that had been kind of prescribed
by his parents and he wasn't happy.
(12:49):
And so it gave him courage to justdo something new with his life.
Cassie (12:53):
Insane story, right?
Better late than ever.
My junior year after I came backmore burnt than ever after Korea,
and I was extremely homesick.
I could already feel the stress descendupon me the second I got to campus.
I already had assignments to finish.
I thought would love to take a break.
(13:13):
Must be nice, but not for me.
Ultimately, I was too blinded by my owninsecurities to take a leave of absence.
I thought that taking a break was only forpeople struggling with physical or mental
health issues, or people that receivedsome insane offer to build a startup.
The year prior, I had a severe kneeinjury, which honestly would've
(13:36):
warranted taking a leave ofabsence, but my mom encouraged me.
Stay in school was a really good idea.
But it made the thought of taking a leaveof absence in the future, unimaginable,
because if I didn't take a leave off,then what reason could I have in taking
it off when there was no extenuatingcircumstance, I was just burnt out.
(13:57):
Guess what?
Taking a leave of absencefor wellness is more common.
Carrie (14:02):
In any given year, I work with let's say, 20 students who
are gonna take a leave of absence.
About 10 of them would behealth and wellness related, and
maybe 10 would be work related.
The work related might be an aninternship opportunity, or it
might just be that they wanna takesome time off to earn some money.
Cassie (14:22):
You think this is gonna end with me telling you how awesome and
life-changing my leave of absence was.
I really wish I could, butthe truth is I am a hypocrite.
You'd think I learned my lessonafter junior fall quarter.
I didn't.
No.
I haven't continued to pullallnighters and cry in front
of my TAs, luckily, thank God.
But also, I didn't slowdown my pace at all.
(14:44):
I went on school trip for spring break,and then I went to Korea to do that.
Intensive 140 hour long.
Study program, which iswhere I flunked that test.
Oh my gosh.
I can't believe I'm admitting that.
I was taking a class at university,one at private academy and
another private tutoring class.
I was also taking a leadership coursein this project, which I was having to
(15:04):
do interviews for and Zoom meetings forbefore my back to back classes, which all
made me realize, oh wait, I'm actuallydoing a lot of stuff and I actually just
don't have enough time to study and do.
All the things that I need todo, take a leave of absence.
It's what I wish I did.
I wish I did it, but by summertime Ialready had applied to be a FR ra, so I
(15:30):
already committed to the year of being aStanford as as an ra, or else I probably
would've taken some time off this year.
However, doing this podcast has beenreally helpful for me to reflect.
I don't regret being an ra.
Because it's been a great experienceand I wanna help students like Maya.
I just wanna be here and pass on adviceand support kids when they need it.
(15:50):
Because I know how hard it is toresist the productivity mindset,
the one that tells you to take asmany classes as possible and load
up your plate as much as you can.
Don't try to just fast track it andthen you lose sense of what it actually
means to be a kid growing into an adult.
Enjoy your time while you're young andyou, you're not in the workforce and you
(16:11):
actually have to work a nine to five,you're gonna be wishing you were young
again and, and traveling and doing allthe things that you could have done at
Stanford or you could have done at school.
So here's a little gauge.
Are you missing class, missing sleep,missing due dates or extension due dates?
That once happened to me.
It was bad.
You think this quarter was the worst.
(16:32):
I'll never load my schedule up again.
But then you do it again.
Or maybe you're thinking it'snot that bad, but you're still
feeling like all you do is workand time is just passing you by.
Do you feel exhausted beforethe quarter even starts?
Can you really call yourself productive?
If you're stretching yourself sothin, you can't even give your.
Family, friends, whoever time, youdon't need me to spell it out for you.
(16:56):
Just so you know.
Even if you do try to run yourselfdown like a machine, your laptops,
they break, they lag, they shut down.
All the bad stuff happensusually at the most inconvenient
times, but what do you do?
You press sleep, you turn it off,shut it down, then you restart it.
Even your machine needs rest too.
That we have really consider a break.
(17:16):
This podcast wouldn't be possiblewithout the wonderful help
from the SSP production team.
My mentor, Laura Joyce Davis,and the other mentors and
storytellers, a part of this cohort.
Also, huge thanks to Maya Cruz.
Carrie Costanzo and Thomas Curran,who spoke on today's episode.
Also features music from, fromthe instrumental of No More to
(17:39):
Run by Stegosaurus Rex in theinstrumental of Symphonia nine.
By current joys and of course,thanks to you for listening.
It's love.
Cassie.
We're Stanford Cardinal, right?
Right.
Stanford Cardinal.
Right, right.
The trees make sales.
I dunno.
Well, let's find out.
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