September 3, 2025 • 27 mins
Join us as Jennifer Cain Birkmose takes us through the transformative power of the YES AND mindset that she has mastered through her unique background in improv comedy. In this episode, Jennifer reveals how embracing this principle can elevate leadership, caregiving, and business dynamics. We will dive deep into how improv can spur innovation and create memorable customer experiences that resonate across generations.
Listen on Podbean:
https://brainworkframework.podbean.com/
Connect with Jennifer Cain Birkmose:
Company Website: www.vivavalet.com
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-cain-birkmose-ab05a6/
Vivavalet live at home services for older adults My ted talks: https://www.ted.com//search?q=jennifer%20cain%20birkmose
intstagram: @jcbirk, @vivavaletofficia
Connect with Chris Troka:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-troka-3a093058/
Website: https://focused-biz.com/
Website: https://christroka.com/ #brainwork #framework #business #caregiving #leadership #innovation #mindset #generations
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Olders don't wanna be burdens.
So I think that's reallysticking in my brain.
Olders don't wish to be burdens.
This has come out loud and clearwith the ethnography that we ran
as we were designing our featuresof our company and our services.
And I hear this loud and clear from mycustomers that I don't want to be a burden
on my children or I have a healthcareworker, but I don't wanna burden them.
(00:24):
They feel badly thatthey're asking for things.
I think that AI could definitelybe a buddy in that sense, as
in the form of companionship.
And there are other tools out there,like there's another company in our
space called Papa, and they have papapals and they actually hire people to
go and just hang out with older people.
(00:45):
And we get in the car and maybewe run an errand together.
And the whole point ofcompanionship, be it digital or
be it human-based companionship.
Is that sense of community because we'relosing that sense of the intergenerational
household or the intergenerationalcommunity that's interacting.
So it's finding ways to simulatecommunity, simulate that you
have someone to check in on you.
(01:09):
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is the co-founder ofViva Valet, Jennifer Cain Birkmose.
She's a person who helps earlyage and elders people find their
way through new technology and AI.
(01:29):
Also had some experience at the BillGates Foundation and is introducing improv
into leadership and business development.
So excited to have her on.
Jennifer, how you doing today?
Hi, Chris.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for bringing meonto your show today.
I'm so happy to talk to you.
Of course you have quite an extensivehistory and experience with a lot of
different industries, so excited to chatmore about your experience with them.
(01:50):
Tell us more about your journey.
What were you doing before that ledyou into what you're doing today?
Yeah, thanks for the question.
I have been someone who has spentkind of a lifetime of gathering
different tools for impact forpeople, patients, healthcare
systems and I've kind of used my
career journey as a tool orvocational choices as little
(02:13):
levers to try to influence that.
How can I help society patients,healthcare systems best?
So accordingly, I worked forthe World Health Organization.
I worked in basic research, Iworked in pharmaceutical research, I
worked in pharmaceutical developmentas well and commercialization.
And had a long history inglobal health actually as well.
(02:35):
And really trying to driveaccess to patients that need
medicines most and need care most.
So almost four years ago,my founder reached out to me
and said, I have a problem.
And I think you have the same one,which is you and I both live where
we live, which is in Switzerland,she lives in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
(02:55):
And she said, we both have agingparents or grandparents who are
living really far away from us.
And how are you figuring this out?
How are you working this out?
What are you doing to prepare for this?
And at the time I was thinking, I'd lostmy mother and my father was living alone.
I just don't know because probably whatI'm gonna have to do is if living here
(03:18):
in Switzerland, I have to deal with afather who is ill, I'm probably gonna
have to get on a plane and fly acrossthe ocean and be there for him while my
family, my children, my career is sittinghere and for short periods of time can
work for an emergency, for a crisis.
And if it comes to a long-term illnessthat you have to manage or long-term
(03:42):
support, it wasn't gonna be sustainable.
So my founder and I put our heads togetherand we said, Hey, what would it look like
if we could find tools for adult childrenlike us and olders themselves, people who
are in these older age groups to this veryfragmented market of what you might need
to be able to live at home independently.
(04:04):
So where can you find things that work?
Where can you find good services?
High quality, dependable and mostimportantly, where do you find
the most trustworthy services?
So we put our heads together and westarted to develop this and we launched
commercially now 21 months ago.
So it's super exciting.
We are commercially viable and we are inIllinois as our first marketplace where we
(04:27):
deliver these kinds of services for older.
Our company's called Viva Valet.
And the kinds of servicesthat we deliver are rides.
Food delivery.
We do home safety assessments and wedo home modifications, so certified
home modifications that are safe forolders as well as cleaning services.
And surprisingly, one of our top servicesnow is in-home and community-based tech.
(04:50):
So olders are coming to us andasking for support on how do I set
up a maybe a network in my home orhow do I use my iPhone or how do I
access my medical records or banking.
So we're helping them get more andmore familiar with how to use tech
and more comfortable with tech.
Wow.
That is so cool.
And with my background with homecare and hospice is that people who
(05:13):
are aging, who are towards end oflife, they want that feeling of home.
That was about a big pieceof the marketing and branding
message with us, your home.
So that feeling of home, peoplewanna stay home to make it more
accessible for them to make thatavailable and a viable option for them.
It's a growing market and it'ssolving a huge need in the community.
Absolutely Chris.
(05:33):
Like what we know from research we'vedone directly with olders themselves
be it ethnography or be it likelarge quant studies, we know that
90% of olders wanna live at home.
Just like you've already experienced.
So we know they wanna stay.
They're happier there.
They often don't have the ability togo somewhere else because it could
be a financial obstacle as well ormaybe the infrastructure doesn't
(05:57):
properly exist for what they need.
So it's all about keeping them homeand delaying the move as long as
possible or even delaying the move.
Keep them in the home that they'velived in for 20, 30, 40 years and
if they have to move, keep them atthat level of living that they are.
So if they move to independent living,maybe in a group home, keep them there
(06:19):
as long as possible because that'salso a signature of independence
and of their social status andability to navigate relationships.
This probably also from the Blue Zones.
Having purpose.
Making sure that they have purposethat they have, direction that they
even have an intergenerational kindof experience is really important.
So that's a huge part of whatwe're working on, is really keeping
(06:43):
them purpose driven, independent.
Absolutely.
And it's interesting and inspiring bothto see technology and AI kind of being
used for the betterment of people andspecifically a generation where you
would assume that many of them wouldhave issues adapting to or wouldn't want
to try new tech but I feel as thoughthey've been very open to learning new
(07:03):
technology or at least getting someassistance and using that technology.
So it's very exciting.
What are you seeing with thetrends with digital acceptance
of your product as well?
I think one of the biggest surprisesis how many of our customers are
olders themselves, who sign up alone.
We always thought this would be forthe adult children who are gonna do
(07:23):
all this and sweep in and fix it.
And actually it's quite the opposite.
The olders, who are driving those signups.
So that's a huge surprise and delight forus because we get to serve them directly.
I think another aspect is the myth.
Olders can't do tech or olders can'tnavigate or aren't interested in tech.
(07:43):
My experience with every singlecustomer that I interact with is that is
absolutely false and what I learned isthat they're absolutely hungry to learn.
They're hungry to interact with tech.
And in order to do that,they have to be taught.
The way that tech is taught is it's eitherintuitive with small kind of flows that's
(08:05):
in a user experience or it's throughcommunity and often older don't have that.
So whenever we do a community-basedtech seminar or we show up at
someone's house to do their own tech,they have long list of questions.
Teach me how to upload a photo,teach me how to do FaceTime.
Sometimes it's even, teach me how tosend texts or what are the different
(08:25):
texting platforms, those kinds of things.
They are hungry for knowledgebecause it means participation
in the rest of the world.
And I think the other thing is peoplewill have snide remarks to say, oh, does
that mean you're just gonna make it big?
Big text.
Great.
It's more than that.
So knowing that functionally, like I'mholding my phone right now, you and I
(08:47):
might text with our thumbs like thisbut an older will hold their phone
like this and interact like this.
So if you're going to interact withyour own phone like this, you need
to design the experience differently.
And you need to have theicons more simplistic.
You need to have the flow more intuitive.
Driven from a neuroscienceperspective, different colors
(09:08):
because color acuity fades with age.
So those kinds of thingshave really been important.
I personally feel very
proud that we've had a veryenthusiastic group of olders
themselves who have been co-designinga lot of the tech that we have.
So we have a group of people between 70and 90, now 393, who have been involved in
(09:30):
UIUX have been involved in beta testing,have been involved in assessing all of
the features that we have, making surethat the flow is working as intuitive.
So give them an opportunity.
They are hungry, you just have tobe able to meet them on their terms.
Yes, absolutely.
And it's no doubt that technologycan shape a lot of organizations
and people to do more.
(09:51):
One example was working with the HomeCare Hospice for Meals on Wheels.
We were able to save their program$30,000 a year just by creating more
efficient routes by using technologyand going from like an old paper fax
system into a digital electronic system.
So that was a big changefor that organization.
We're seeing generations now takingadvantage of technology and one thing
that people asked about was AI, right?
(10:12):
I had a colleague asked, how isAI going to either help or hurt?
Our parents, our older generationsand I was thinking, okay.
How could AI be used,both good or bad for that?
One of the examples was.
What if maybe scams happen often.
What if AI could maybe monitor thephone call or the phone number type
or the type of interactions to seeis someone uploading a gift card to
(10:35):
send to a scammer or doing some sortof action that wouldn't be expected?
So it's like, on one hand, howdo you see AI being used for the
benefit and some potential downsideswhere we need to be careful of.
I have lots of answers to this.
Interesting because we just did a LinkedInlive today with other AI leaders in tech
and health tech and we were talking aboutwhat do in a world where IML is going
(11:01):
to be the standard in healthcare andhealthcare delivery, what do we need?
What are some of the watch outs?
And my plea was for thesepeople who are engineers and
who are really trying to help.
Make partnerships withinhealthcare to make this function.
My plea is, when you're training yourdata sets on the ML or the machine
learning aspect of AI, please includedata sets with populations who are older.
(11:27):
So for example, in healthcare.
We tend to trend towards data that'smale because women only joined clinical
trials in the 1990s globally basically.
So we've got a data set that historicallyis trended towards male trended towards
the global, north and west with as well.
(11:47):
So we have a gap with women butwe also have a gap with people
who are above the age of like 75.
And we will have unprecedentednumbers of octogenarians, 90 year
olds centenarians, for example.
We need to have data that's going tohelp healthcare professionals support
their decision making because AI willbe sort of supportive augmentation
(12:11):
of decision making in healthcarein every industry for that matter.
So we need to have data that representsthat population so healthcare
professionals can get the best support anddecision making to support those patients.
I think that's one huge thing thatis my cry for help whenever I'm in
a data space with other folks thatare working in a AIML engineering.
I think you mentioned this aspect of fraudand I think where can AI help and or hurt?
(12:38):
So we in our company are constantlywatching out for trends in AI
scams, be they through fishing,be they through stolen voices.
So when voices are stolenand Grandma, could you please
send me $10,000 I'm in jail.
Those kinds of things are happeningall around us as well as texting.
(12:58):
So I think it requires vigilanceon the human side to really train.
What are those things to watch out for?
So we constantly send out signalsand updates that say, here are trends
in here, trends in email scams.
Here are trends in texting scams.
Here are trends in voice drivenscams, stolen AI, voice driven scams.
So I think also just education.
(13:18):
I think you and me both are susceptible tothis not only olders, but I think olders
because they may not have been sitting inan office where you and I might be working
in a professional environment where
we're constantly getting updates orthere's firewalls to catch these kinds
of things or being trained, oldersaren't being trained these things.
So I think we are really feeling vigilantabout making sure those messages get out.
(13:41):
I think the last one, which I really like,this idea of having sort of AI attendant
guardian software to watch out for.
Oh, a gift card is being uploadedor purchased or something.
Some email has been sent to yourinbox, which is demanding a lot
of personal information to be putinto that text to catch those.
(14:02):
So I don't know if you've heard of isit AI grandma, have you heard of this?
No, I haven't, but that'll be interesting.
Oh my gosh.
You have to know about this becauseit's a tool in the UK where there
is an AI grandma who will pick up ascan for scammers and will pick up
the phone when scammers are calling.
And the company behind this isall about trying to take up all
(14:28):
the airtime for those AI scammers.
So people who are calling to scam olders,their goal is to get them on the phone
and keep them on the phone for as longas possible and go down that rabbit hole.
So this AI grandmother's voice is like,oh, sweetheart please explain that to me.
Oh, I really do wanna help you.
I hear that you need money.
I really do wanna help you.
(14:49):
Can you explain it to me again?
'cause I'm so confused.
So they'll just tie up thelines a little bit longer.
They're using weaponized incompetencehere to take up all this time.
Very clever though.
I love it.
That concept has grown.
There have been some popularYouTubers who mimic older people
to keep them on a scam but they'reactually like white hat hackers.
So they'll actually gain access totheir systems and delete all the
(15:11):
phone numbers and the systems thatthey're using to call out here.
So it's very interesting to you tosee AI being implemented in this way.
But I also see another use case,potentially companionship both independent
living but also, I feel like olderpeople feel a burden to text or call
their friends or family members feelinglike they don't want to hear from them.
Could AI maybe marriagethat gap in between that or
(15:32):
potentially expand upon that.
But just some great ideason how do we solve problems.
I think that's the main foundationon how you create better systems.
I think there's something that yousaid in that yes, AI can create
better systems for this for sure.
And something that you saidin this question, which was,
olders don't wanna be burdens.
(15:52):
So I think that's reallysticking in my brain.
Olders don't wish to be burdens.
This has come out loud and clearwith the ethnography that we ran
as we were designing our featuresof our company and our services.
And I hear this loud and clear from mycustomers that I don't want to be a burden
on my children or I have a healthcareworker but I don't wanna burden them.
(16:15):
They feel badly thatthey're asking for things.
So I think that AI could definitelybe a buddy in that sense as
in the form of companionship.
And there are other tools outthere, like there's another company
in our space called Papa and theyhave papa pals and they actually
hire people to go and just hang out
with older people.
(16:35):
And we get in the car, maybe we runan errand together and the whole point
of companionship, be it digital or beit human based companionship, is that
sense of community because we're losingthat sense of the intergenerational
household or the intergenerationalcommunity that's interacting.
So it's finding ways to simulatecommunity, simulate that you
(16:55):
have someone to check in on you.
You mentioned lowering costswhen you talked about the digital
optimization of routes and last milelogistics in the delivery of food.
I think when we talk about findingways to optimize how we interact
as well is also helping us
potentially feel like we're part of acommunity and lower healthcare costs.
(17:18):
So someone who is less lonely, whofeels like they have purpose and
feels like there's someone thatthey can call and be heard, they
often are utilizing less healthcare.
They're having fewer accidentsand ultimately they're costing
their healthcare system, likethe Medicare system, they're
costing them less which is great.
It's a proxy for living Well, it's aproxy for I'm healthier and I'm more
(17:39):
independent and I'm more integrated.
So we're all for all of those things.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Totally agree.
Now, the question that I had for youis considering the sense of community.
I feel like since post covid, this was atraumatic event for a lot of us and we're
still readjusting to what a normal lifeor a new normal life could look like.
How do we get back to thissense of community in a digital
(18:01):
age, in a post covid era?
Oh, Chris.
How much time do we have here?
Two weeks.
I know right?
Yeah.
Please lay it all out.
Let me ask chat GPT speak of AIML, right?
How do we get back to anormal sense of community?
This is a really hard questionand there's a lot of different
directions to take this.
(18:23):
I think one of them is simplyrediscovering human to human connection.
I think we've lost that.
I think in the youngergenerations for sure.
We have lost that senseof going out touch grass?
I guess that's what the kids say now.
Go out and touch grass.
Like are you out in theexternal environment?
Are you actually meeting people?
(18:44):
And I say that specifically startingwith us as, those who are under
70, let's just put us like that.
We'll divide us.
We don't need to go intothe finite details of who's
Gen Y or Gen Z or whatever.
It's just the younger folks.
We became accustomed to livingour life fully digitally.
We became accustomed to even havingrewarding social interactions
(19:05):
digitally and I think we often cutoff the joy and the multi-generational
evolutionary trend that we had to live incommunities and interact in communities.
So I think that is broken in general.
So we have like this idea of themulti-generational household.
(19:26):
It's so unusual now that you seepeople who are 70 living with someone
who's 10 years old, grandchildren,even great-grandchildren.
We just don't have that.
And how do I think the realquestion is these are populations
all over the world where peoplelive up to a hundred years old.
And a lot of researchers are trying tounderstand what's the secret sauce, right?
(19:50):
So why?
Is it diet?
Is it exercise?
Is it something in the water,is something in the air?
And it's a little bit of all of that.
And the number one most importantthing is that these people are
socially active, integrated andthey have some form of purpose.
So there's an intergenerational thing.
I have purpose because I amindependently living or I have a
(20:12):
hobby or I have some form of workor I'm still engaged in something
where I feel valued on a daily basis.
And I feel seen.
And they have high qualitysocial connections.
There is some form of exercise andusually some form of healthier diet.
If there's alcohol consumption,it may happen but it may happen
in less qualities as well.
So if you know there's one inItaly, there's one in California.
(20:35):
There's one in CentralAmerica, Costa Rica Japan.
I'm missing Greece.
There's another one I'm missing but Ithink, this is a very long-winded answer.
But I think this is like numberone, we have to find a way to have
better interactions with each otherand multi-generationally, how do
(20:55):
we find ways to relate quickly?
How do we build rapport quickly?
How do we then make those connectionsthat make people wanna stay in them?
My secret weapon that I personallyuse to do is sort of a undercover
like superpower, is that I am aprofessional improv comedian on top
of all the other things that I do.
(21:17):
So global health advocate, diplomat,entrepreneur, healthcare executive.
And underneath all of that is the factthat I trained at Second City, which I'm
so proud of and it was great training.
Interestingly, a lot of it was online.
So if you can make thesetypes of connections,
improvise sketches, write sketches,perform them online and then get ready to
(21:40):
perform them on a second city main stage.
You can create rapportanywhere in the world.
If you can do it through thislittle square that we're living in
right here, we can do it anywhere.
So I have discovered that when I'mteaching improv or when I'm performing
it or even when I'm doing it corporateenvironments, it is the single most
efficient way to create that typeof interaction where people connect
(22:04):
well, they connect quickly and theyfeel comfortable with each other.
It creates a sense ofpsychological safety.
There's levity and the laughterand there's a sense of belonging.
And I feel very confident about that as aperson who runs an improv school and has
taught people in every age, group, so fromthe five to 10 year olds, the teenagers,
(22:24):
the 20 somethings, the midlife folks andmy oldest student I've ever had was 99.
I just had her as a student a month ago.
And with a assisted living facilitywhere I had 15 people who are
between the ages of 75 and 99.
And Chris to watch the experience of usingthese tools to basically just have a good
(22:49):
time, laugh, warm up, create some levity.
I saw each of those people,
really anti-age in front of meor reverse age in front of me.
They all seemed taller, their faceslooked younger, their eyes were
brighter, they were more focused.
People who had clearly like dementiawere more focused and able to be in
(23:10):
the moment and be able to interact.
And they were able to open up to eachother, which was a huge surprise.
Ways that they hadn't been emotionallyvulnerable before but share personal
things and then as a result, afterthe class, I watched them and these
people, first of all, it was hilarious'cause it ended abruptly because
(23:30):
there was a fire alarm that went off.
And I was like, great.
It's over now.
Now that was a rather abrupt endingtoo, a very meaningful afternoon.
They all came back and sat andspoke to each other for two hours.
If there's any way that we could putthat essence of improv in a bottle
to get people to form relationships,to help strengthen communities.
(23:53):
That's it.
And as an entrepreneur, do Iteach my service providers, my
customer service agents, my company?
Do we use these tools every day?
Yes.
We do.
I love it.
I think it's one of those things thatwill help businesses but exactly to
your original question, like how do westart to build these communities and
help us get over this digital isolationand long prolonged isolation from COVID.
(24:18):
This is one of those ways that we canreally short circuit that connection.
I love it.
It's a great idea.
Now, where can people find out more aboutyou and get connected with you online?
Okay, thanks again.
So if you wanna reach out to mepersonally, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Jennifer Cain Birkmose.
You can also find me and my company, VivaValet on LinkedIn as well as Instagram.
(24:39):
We're very active there.
Viva Valet Official is our Instagramhandle, if you wanna find me personally.
It's J-C-B-I-R-K on Instagram.
Dear listeners, if you are compelled tolearn more about what it's like to be a
caregiver or what it's like to supportyour olders, we actually put out weekly
content or actually more frequentlythan weekly content that is actionable.
(25:04):
Short little pieces of informationthat gives you a bite size action that
you can take today to support yourcaregiving journey, to support your older.
So we're talking about digitalsupport Last week, it was last Friday.
It was about how to support anolder to spot fishing and we're
working with olders to do that.
We're talking about how to support olderswhen they're taking medicines and what
(25:25):
are food interactions that might harmsome of the medications they're taking.
So you find these every week.
If that's helpful for you and youwanna learn something and you wanna
join our community, please jump in.
We're so happy to to see you there.
Excellent, and we'll have those linksavailable done on the show notes and the
description for everyone to get connected.
Now, Jennifer wanted toask one last question here.
What are you excited for most in 2025?
(25:45):
Are you building upsomething new and exciting?
Are you kind of running with thesame thing you've been doing?
You have a lot on your plate,so I wouldn't be surprised if
you just took some time off.
So in 2025, Veeva Valet is expandingnationwide with our concierge service
that enables customers to tap intothese services on a rapid basis.
(26:06):
We're gonna be able to help a lot morepeople than only are in the whole market
that we have or our original market.
So I'm thrilled about that.
We're also launching an app which isgoing to support olders to be able
to track their symptoms so they canhave a more high quality interaction
with their healthcare provider.
And we actually just won an awardat Health Healthcare 2.0 in Las
Vegas last month for this new app.
(26:27):
So it's really exciting that alreadywe're getting picked up in the
healthcare community about this.
Personally.
I'm doing my first triathlon in Augustand I am really excited about that
and I am kind of living, breathingmusical theater every chance my
daughter and we are going to seeWest End Broadway traveling musicals.
(26:48):
We are having a year where we eat artevery single day and it is delicious.
So that's what I excited for in 2025.
I love that.
It sounds like a nice blend of bothproductivity on the business side.
A lot of growth doing thingsthat bring value to your life.
Jennifer, appreciate your timeand coming onto our podcast.
Thank you so much.
Thanks Chris.
Olders don't wanna be burdens.
So I think that's reallysticking in my brain.
Olders don't wish to be burdens.
This has come out loud and clearwith the ethnography that we ran
as we were designing our featuresof our company and our services.
And I hear this loud and clear from mycustomers that I don't want to be a burden
on my children or I have a healthcareworker, but I don't wanna burden them.
(00:24):
They feel badly thatthey're asking for things.
I think that AI could definitelybe a buddy in that sense, as
in the form of companionship.
And there are other tools out there,like there's another company in our
space called Papa, and they have papapals and they actually hire people to
go and just hang out with older people.
(00:45):
And we get in the car and maybewe run an errand together.
And the whole point ofcompanionship, be it digital or
be it human-based companionship.
Is that sense of community because we'relosing that sense of the intergenerational
household or the intergenerationalcommunity that's interacting.
So it's finding ways to simulatecommunity, simulate that you
have someone to check in on you.
(01:09):
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is the co-founder ofViva Valet, Jennifer Cain Birkmose.
She's a person who helps earlyage and elders people find their
way through new technology and AI.
(01:29):
Also had some experience at the BillGates Foundation and is introducing improv
into leadership and business development.
So excited to have her on.
Jennifer, how you doing today?
Hi, Chris.
I'm so happy to be here.
Thanks for bringing meonto your show today.
I'm so happy to talk to you.
Of course you have quite an extensivehistory and experience with a lot of
different industries, so excited to chatmore about your experience with them.
(01:50):
Tell us more about your journey.
What were you doing before that ledyou into what you're doing today?
Yeah, thanks for the question.
I have been someone who has spentkind of a lifetime of gathering
different tools for impact forpeople, patients, healthcare
systems and I've kind of used my
career journey as a tool orvocational choices as little
(02:13):
levers to try to influence that.
How can I help society patients,healthcare systems best?
So accordingly, I worked forthe World Health Organization.
I worked in basic research, Iworked in pharmaceutical research, I
worked in pharmaceutical developmentas well and commercialization.
And had a long history inglobal health actually as well.
(02:35):
And really trying to driveaccess to patients that need
medicines most and need care most.
So almost four years ago,my founder reached out to me
and said, I have a problem.
And I think you have the same one,which is you and I both live where
we live, which is in Switzerland,she lives in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
(02:55):
And she said, we both have agingparents or grandparents who are
living really far away from us.
And how are you figuring this out?
How are you working this out?
What are you doing to prepare for this?
And at the time I was thinking, I'd lostmy mother and my father was living alone.
I just don't know because probably whatI'm gonna have to do is if living here
(03:18):
in Switzerland, I have to deal with afather who is ill, I'm probably gonna
have to get on a plane and fly acrossthe ocean and be there for him while my
family, my children, my career is sittinghere and for short periods of time can
work for an emergency, for a crisis.
And if it comes to a long-term illnessthat you have to manage or long-term
(03:42):
support, it wasn't gonna be sustainable.
So my founder and I put our heads togetherand we said, Hey, what would it look like
if we could find tools for adult childrenlike us and olders themselves, people who
are in these older age groups to this veryfragmented market of what you might need
to be able to live at home independently.
(04:04):
So where can you find things that work?
Where can you find good services?
High quality, dependable and mostimportantly, where do you find
the most trustworthy services?
So we put our heads together and westarted to develop this and we launched
commercially now 21 months ago.
So it's super exciting.
We are commercially viable and we are inIllinois as our first marketplace where we
(04:27):
deliver these kinds of services for older.
Our company's called Viva Valet.
And the kinds of servicesthat we deliver are rides.
Food delivery.
We do home safety assessments and wedo home modifications, so certified
home modifications that are safe forolders as well as cleaning services.
And surprisingly, one of our top servicesnow is in-home and community-based tech.
(04:50):
So olders are coming to us andasking for support on how do I set
up a maybe a network in my home orhow do I use my iPhone or how do I
access my medical records or banking.
So we're helping them get more andmore familiar with how to use tech
and more comfortable with tech.
Wow.
That is so cool.
And with my background with homecare and hospice is that people who
(05:13):
are aging, who are towards end oflife, they want that feeling of home.
That was about a big pieceof the marketing and branding
message with us, your home.
So that feeling of home, peoplewanna stay home to make it more
accessible for them to make thatavailable and a viable option for them.
It's a growing market and it'ssolving a huge need in the community.
Absolutely Chris.
(05:33):
Like what we know from research we'vedone directly with olders themselves
be it ethnography or be it likelarge quant studies, we know that
90% of olders wanna live at home.
Just like you've already experienced.
So we know they wanna stay.
They're happier there.
They often don't have the ability togo somewhere else because it could
be a financial obstacle as well ormaybe the infrastructure doesn't
(05:57):
properly exist for what they need.
So it's all about keeping them homeand delaying the move as long as
possible or even delaying the move.
Keep them in the home that they'velived in for 20, 30, 40 years and
if they have to move, keep them atthat level of living that they are.
So if they move to independent living,maybe in a group home, keep them there
(06:19):
as long as possible because that'salso a signature of independence
and of their social status andability to navigate relationships.
This probably also from the Blue Zones.
Having purpose.
Making sure that they have purposethat they have, direction that they
even have an intergenerational kindof experience is really important.
So that's a huge part of whatwe're working on, is really keeping
(06:43):
them purpose driven, independent.
Absolutely.
And it's interesting and inspiring bothto see technology and AI kind of being
used for the betterment of people andspecifically a generation where you
would assume that many of them wouldhave issues adapting to or wouldn't want
to try new tech but I feel as thoughthey've been very open to learning new
(07:03):
technology or at least getting someassistance and using that technology.
So it's very exciting.
What are you seeing with thetrends with digital acceptance
of your product as well?
I think one of the biggest surprisesis how many of our customers are
olders themselves, who sign up alone.
We always thought this would be forthe adult children who are gonna do
(07:23):
all this and sweep in and fix it.
And actually it's quite the opposite.
The olders, who are driving those signups.
So that's a huge surprise and delight forus because we get to serve them directly.
I think another aspect is the myth.
Olders can't do tech or olders can'tnavigate or aren't interested in tech.
(07:43):
My experience with every singlecustomer that I interact with is that is
absolutely false and what I learned isthat they're absolutely hungry to learn.
They're hungry to interact with tech.
And in order to do that,they have to be taught.
The way that tech is taught is it's eitherintuitive with small kind of flows that's
(08:05):
in a user experience or it's throughcommunity and often older don't have that.
So whenever we do a community-basedtech seminar or we show up at
someone's house to do their own tech,they have long list of questions.
Teach me how to upload a photo,teach me how to do FaceTime.
Sometimes it's even, teach me how tosend texts or what are the different
(08:25):
texting platforms, those kinds of things.
They are hungry for knowledgebecause it means participation
in the rest of the world.
And I think the other thing is peoplewill have snide remarks to say, oh, does
that mean you're just gonna make it big?
Big text.
Great.
It's more than that.
So knowing that functionally, like I'mholding my phone right now, you and I
(08:47):
might text with our thumbs like thisbut an older will hold their phone
like this and interact like this.
So if you're going to interact withyour own phone like this, you need
to design the experience differently.
And you need to have theicons more simplistic.
You need to have the flow more intuitive.
Driven from a neuroscienceperspective, different colors
(09:08):
because color acuity fades with age.
So those kinds of thingshave really been important.
I personally feel very
proud that we've had a veryenthusiastic group of olders
themselves who have been co-designinga lot of the tech that we have.
So we have a group of people between 70and 90, now 393, who have been involved in
(09:30):
UIUX have been involved in beta testing,have been involved in assessing all of
the features that we have, making surethat the flow is working as intuitive.
So give them an opportunity.
They are hungry, you just have tobe able to meet them on their terms.
Yes, absolutely.
And it's no doubt that technologycan shape a lot of organizations
and people to do more.
(09:51):
One example was working with the HomeCare Hospice for Meals on Wheels.
We were able to save their program$30,000 a year just by creating more
efficient routes by using technologyand going from like an old paper fax
system into a digital electronic system.
So that was a big changefor that organization.
We're seeing generations now takingadvantage of technology and one thing
that people asked about was AI, right?
(10:12):
I had a colleague asked, how isAI going to either help or hurt?
Our parents, our older generationsand I was thinking, okay.
How could AI be used,both good or bad for that?
One of the examples was.
What if maybe scams happen often.
What if AI could maybe monitor thephone call or the phone number type
or the type of interactions to seeis someone uploading a gift card to
(10:35):
send to a scammer or doing some sortof action that wouldn't be expected?
So it's like, on one hand, howdo you see AI being used for the
benefit and some potential downsideswhere we need to be careful of.
I have lots of answers to this.
Interesting because we just did a LinkedInlive today with other AI leaders in tech
and health tech and we were talking aboutwhat do in a world where IML is going
(11:01):
to be the standard in healthcare andhealthcare delivery, what do we need?
What are some of the watch outs?
And my plea was for thesepeople who are engineers and
who are really trying to help.
Make partnerships withinhealthcare to make this function.
My plea is, when you're training yourdata sets on the ML or the machine
learning aspect of AI, please includedata sets with populations who are older.
(11:27):
So for example, in healthcare.
We tend to trend towards data that'smale because women only joined clinical
trials in the 1990s globally basically.
So we've got a data set that historicallyis trended towards male trended towards
the global, north and west with as well.
(11:47):
So we have a gap with women butwe also have a gap with people
who are above the age of like 75.
And we will have unprecedentednumbers of octogenarians, 90 year
olds centenarians, for example.
We need to have data that's going tohelp healthcare professionals support
their decision making because AI willbe sort of supportive augmentation
(12:11):
of decision making in healthcarein every industry for that matter.
So we need to have data that representsthat population so healthcare
professionals can get the best support anddecision making to support those patients.
I think that's one huge thing thatis my cry for help whenever I'm in
a data space with other folks thatare working in a AIML engineering.
I think you mentioned this aspect of fraudand I think where can AI help and or hurt?
(12:38):
So we in our company are constantlywatching out for trends in AI
scams, be they through fishing,be they through stolen voices.
So when voices are stolenand Grandma, could you please
send me $10,000 I'm in jail.
Those kinds of things are happeningall around us as well as texting.
(12:58):
So I think it requires vigilanceon the human side to really train.
What are those things to watch out for?
So we constantly send out signalsand updates that say, here are trends
in here, trends in email scams.
Here are trends in texting scams.
Here are trends in voice drivenscams, stolen AI, voice driven scams.
So I think also just education.
(13:18):
I think you and me both are susceptible tothis not only olders, but I think olders
because they may not have been sitting inan office where you and I might be working
in a professional environment where
we're constantly getting updates orthere's firewalls to catch these kinds
of things or being trained, oldersaren't being trained these things.
So I think we are really feeling vigilantabout making sure those messages get out.
(13:41):
I think the last one, which I really like,this idea of having sort of AI attendant
guardian software to watch out for.
Oh, a gift card is being uploadedor purchased or something.
Some email has been sent to yourinbox, which is demanding a lot
of personal information to be putinto that text to catch those.
(14:02):
So I don't know if you've heard of isit AI grandma, have you heard of this?
No, I haven't, but that'll be interesting.
Oh my gosh.
You have to know about this becauseit's a tool in the UK where there
is an AI grandma who will pick up ascan for scammers and will pick up
the phone when scammers are calling.
And the company behind this isall about trying to take up all
(14:28):
the airtime for those AI scammers.
So people who are calling to scam olders,their goal is to get them on the phone
and keep them on the phone for as longas possible and go down that rabbit hole.
So this AI grandmother's voice is like,oh, sweetheart please explain that to me.
Oh, I really do wanna help you.
I hear that you need money.
I really do wanna help you.
(14:49):
Can you explain it to me again?
'cause I'm so confused.
So they'll just tie up thelines a little bit longer.
They're using weaponized incompetencehere to take up all this time.
Very clever though.
I love it.
That concept has grown.
There have been some popularYouTubers who mimic older people
to keep them on a scam but they'reactually like white hat hackers.
So they'll actually gain access totheir systems and delete all the
(15:11):
phone numbers and the systems thatthey're using to call out here.
So it's very interesting to you tosee AI being implemented in this way.
But I also see another use case,potentially companionship both independent
living but also, I feel like olderpeople feel a burden to text or call
their friends or family members feelinglike they don't want to hear from them.
Could AI maybe marriagethat gap in between that or
(15:32):
potentially expand upon that.
But just some great ideason how do we solve problems.
I think that's the main foundationon how you create better systems.
I think there's something that yousaid in that yes, AI can create
better systems for this for sure.
And something that you saidin this question, which was,
olders don't wanna be burdens.
(15:52):
So I think that's reallysticking in my brain.
Olders don't wish to be burdens.
This has come out loud and clearwith the ethnography that we ran
as we were designing our featuresof our company and our services.
And I hear this loud and clear from mycustomers that I don't want to be a burden
on my children or I have a healthcareworker but I don't wanna burden them.
(16:15):
They feel badly thatthey're asking for things.
So I think that AI could definitelybe a buddy in that sense as
in the form of companionship.
And there are other tools outthere, like there's another company
in our space called Papa and theyhave papa pals and they actually
hire people to go and just hang out
with older people.
(16:35):
And we get in the car, maybe we runan errand together and the whole point
of companionship, be it digital or beit human based companionship, is that
sense of community because we're losingthat sense of the intergenerational
household or the intergenerationalcommunity that's interacting.
So it's finding ways to simulatecommunity, simulate that you
(16:55):
have someone to check in on you.
You mentioned lowering costswhen you talked about the digital
optimization of routes and last milelogistics in the delivery of food.
I think when we talk about findingways to optimize how we interact
as well is also helping us
potentially feel like we're part of acommunity and lower healthcare costs.
(17:18):
So someone who is less lonely, whofeels like they have purpose and
feels like there's someone thatthey can call and be heard, they
often are utilizing less healthcare.
They're having fewer accidentsand ultimately they're costing
their healthcare system, likethe Medicare system, they're
costing them less which is great.
It's a proxy for living Well, it's aproxy for I'm healthier and I'm more
(17:39):
independent and I'm more integrated.
So we're all for all of those things.
Absolutely.
Yes.
Totally agree.
Now, the question that I had for youis considering the sense of community.
I feel like since post covid, this was atraumatic event for a lot of us and we're
still readjusting to what a normal lifeor a new normal life could look like.
How do we get back to thissense of community in a digital
(18:01):
age, in a post covid era?
Oh, Chris.
How much time do we have here?
Two weeks.
I know right?
Yeah.
Please lay it all out.
Let me ask chat GPT speak of AIML, right?
How do we get back to anormal sense of community?
This is a really hard questionand there's a lot of different
directions to take this.
(18:23):
I think one of them is simplyrediscovering human to human connection.
I think we've lost that.
I think in the youngergenerations for sure.
We have lost that senseof going out touch grass?
I guess that's what the kids say now.
Go out and touch grass.
Like are you out in theexternal environment?
Are you actually meeting people?
(18:44):
And I say that specifically startingwith us as, those who are under
70, let's just put us like that.
We'll divide us.
We don't need to go intothe finite details of who's
Gen Y or Gen Z or whatever.
It's just the younger folks.
We became accustomed to livingour life fully digitally.
We became accustomed to even havingrewarding social interactions
(19:05):
digitally and I think we often cutoff the joy and the multi-generational
evolutionary trend that we had to live incommunities and interact in communities.
So I think that is broken in general.
So we have like this idea of themulti-generational household.
(19:26):
It's so unusual now that you seepeople who are 70 living with someone
who's 10 years old, grandchildren,even great-grandchildren.
We just don't have that.
And how do I think the realquestion is these are populations
all over the world where peoplelive up to a hundred years old.
And a lot of researchers are trying tounderstand what's the secret sauce, right?
(19:50):
So why?
Is it diet?
Is it exercise?
Is it something in the water,is something in the air?
And it's a little bit of all of that.
And the number one most importantthing is that these people are
socially active, integrated andthey have some form of purpose.
So there's an intergenerational thing.
I have purpose because I amindependently living or I have a
(20:12):
hobby or I have some form of workor I'm still engaged in something
where I feel valued on a daily basis.
And I feel seen.
And they have high qualitysocial connections.
There is some form of exercise andusually some form of healthier diet.
If there's alcohol consumption,it may happen but it may happen
in less qualities as well.
So if you know there's one inItaly, there's one in California.
(20:35):
There's one in CentralAmerica, Costa Rica Japan.
I'm missing Greece.
There's another one I'm missing but Ithink, this is a very long-winded answer.
But I think this is like numberone, we have to find a way to have
better interactions with each otherand multi-generationally, how do
(20:55):
we find ways to relate quickly?
How do we build rapport quickly?
How do we then make those connectionsthat make people wanna stay in them?
My secret weapon that I personallyuse to do is sort of a undercover
like superpower, is that I am aprofessional improv comedian on top
of all the other things that I do.
(21:17):
So global health advocate, diplomat,entrepreneur, healthcare executive.
And underneath all of that is the factthat I trained at Second City, which I'm
so proud of and it was great training.
Interestingly, a lot of it was online.
So if you can make thesetypes of connections,
improvise sketches, write sketches,perform them online and then get ready to
(21:40):
perform them on a second city main stage.
You can create rapportanywhere in the world.
If you can do it through thislittle square that we're living in
right here, we can do it anywhere.
So I have discovered that when I'mteaching improv or when I'm performing
it or even when I'm doing it corporateenvironments, it is the single most
efficient way to create that typeof interaction where people connect
(22:04):
well, they connect quickly and theyfeel comfortable with each other.
It creates a sense ofpsychological safety.
There's levity and the laughterand there's a sense of belonging.
And I feel very confident about that as aperson who runs an improv school and has
taught people in every age, group, so fromthe five to 10 year olds, the teenagers,
(22:24):
the 20 somethings, the midlife folks andmy oldest student I've ever had was 99.
I just had her as a student a month ago.
And with a assisted living facilitywhere I had 15 people who are
between the ages of 75 and 99.
And Chris to watch the experience of usingthese tools to basically just have a good
(22:49):
time, laugh, warm up, create some levity.
I saw each of those people,
really anti-age in front of meor reverse age in front of me.
They all seemed taller, their faceslooked younger, their eyes were
brighter, they were more focused.
People who had clearly like dementiawere more focused and able to be in
(23:10):
the moment and be able to interact.
And they were able to open up to eachother, which was a huge surprise.
Ways that they hadn't been emotionallyvulnerable before but share personal
things and then as a result, afterthe class, I watched them and these
people, first of all, it was hilarious'cause it ended abruptly because
(23:30):
there was a fire alarm that went off.
And I was like, great.
It's over now.
Now that was a rather abrupt endingtoo, a very meaningful afternoon.
They all came back and sat andspoke to each other for two hours.
If there's any way that we could putthat essence of improv in a bottle
to get people to form relationships,to help strengthen communities.
(23:53):
That's it.
And as an entrepreneur, do Iteach my service providers, my
customer service agents, my company?
Do we use these tools every day?
Yes.
We do.
I love it.
I think it's one of those things thatwill help businesses but exactly to
your original question, like how do westart to build these communities and
help us get over this digital isolationand long prolonged isolation from COVID.
(24:18):
This is one of those ways that we canreally short circuit that connection.
I love it.
It's a great idea.
Now, where can people find out more aboutyou and get connected with you online?
Okay, thanks again.
So if you wanna reach out to mepersonally, you can find me on LinkedIn.
Jennifer Cain Birkmose.
You can also find me and my company, VivaValet on LinkedIn as well as Instagram.
(24:39):
We're very active there.
Viva Valet Official is our Instagramhandle, if you wanna find me personally.
It's J-C-B-I-R-K on Instagram.
Dear listeners, if you are compelled tolearn more about what it's like to be a
caregiver or what it's like to supportyour olders, we actually put out weekly
content or actually more frequentlythan weekly content that is actionable.
(25:04):
Short little pieces of informationthat gives you a bite size action that
you can take today to support yourcaregiving journey, to support your older.
So we're talking about digitalsupport Last week, it was last Friday.
It was about how to support anolder to spot fishing and we're
working with olders to do that.
We're talking about how to support olderswhen they're taking medicines and what
(25:25):
are food interactions that might harmsome of the medications they're taking.
So you find these every week.
If that's helpful for you and youwanna learn something and you wanna
join our community, please jump in.
We're so happy to to see you there.
Excellent, and we'll have those linksavailable done on the show notes and the
description for everyone to get connected.
Now, Jennifer wanted toask one last question here.
What are you excited for most in 2025?
(25:45):
Are you building upsomething new and exciting?
Are you kind of running with thesame thing you've been doing?
You have a lot on your plate,so I wouldn't be surprised if
you just took some time off.
So in 2025, Veeva Valet is expandingnationwide with our concierge service
that enables customers to tap intothese services on a rapid basis.
(26:06):
We're gonna be able to help a lot morepeople than only are in the whole market
that we have or our original market.
So I'm thrilled about that.
We're also launching an app which isgoing to support olders to be able
to track their symptoms so they canhave a more high quality interaction
with their healthcare provider.
And we actually just won an awardat Health Healthcare 2.0 in Las
Vegas last month for this new app.
(26:27):
So it's really exciting that alreadywe're getting picked up in the
healthcare community about this.
Personally.
I'm doing my first triathlon in Augustand I am really excited about that
and I am kind of living, breathingmusical theater every chance my
daughter and we are going to seeWest End Broadway traveling musicals.
(26:48):
We are having a year where we eat artevery single day and it is delicious.
So that's what I excited for in 2025.
I love that.
It sounds like a nice blend of bothproductivity on the business side.
A lot of growth doing thingsthat bring value to your life.
Jennifer, appreciate your timeand coming onto our podcast.
Thank you so much.
Thanks Chris.
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