July 16, 2025 • 32 mins
Ryan Holck explores the unique marketing lessons derived from his experience with brick-and-mortar family businesses. Discover how foundational values, community connection, and authentic storytelling contribute to successful marketing strategies. Ryan shares insightful anecdotes and practical takeaways that can be applied to today’s digital landscape, emphasizing the timeless principles that drive business success.
Listen on Podbean:
https://brainworkframework.podbean.com/
Connect with Ryan Holck:
Personal Website: https://ryanholck.com
Fractional CMO and Strategy work: https://distillyourstory.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanholck/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rholck/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/storydistiller/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@RyanHolck
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/distillyourstory/
Connect with Chris Troka:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-troka-3a093058/
Website: https://focused-biz.com/
Website: https://christroka.com/ #brainwork #framework #business #marketing #storytelling #strategies #values #connections
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Find someone who has gonebefore you and ask for help.
(00:05):
The most successful business peopleI know have a mentor, and they have
a mentor that is similar in agewho is doing something adjacent.
Not necessarily the samething, but adjacent.
So it's not like you're competingfor clients, but they are
fighting some of the same battles.
But then they also have someone who isolder than them who understands business.
(00:30):
Who will spend time answeringtough questions about, we're stuck.
This isn't working, because so oftenwhere we get stuck is not connected
to our products and services.
It's, it's connected to business as awhole, and we know what we do well, but
we don't always know all the other piecesthat come with trying to run a business.
(00:50):
So find people to ask questions.
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is the founderand strategist of Distill
Your Story, Ryan Holck.
He helps businesses, brands andsolopreneurs to clarify their
(01:12):
story, share it simply and deliverit strategically so they can
attract more leads and drive sales.
Ryan, so excited to have you on.
How you doing today?
Thank you for having me on today.
I am doing really well fightingsome sinus stuff but other
than that, things are good.
That is excellent.
You and me both brother, we'realways having those sinus issues
but hopefully we can make it throughand try to keep that to a minimum
but it's okay if it comes up.
We always like to ask ourentrepreneurs, what were you doing
(01:34):
before that kind of led you into thisjourney of what you're doing today?
I actually started as a musician andI see behind you you've got a couple
guitars, which is kind of cool.
So I was actually a perpiano performance major.
And I found that in a lot of the rolesthat I had as a musician, I kept getting
sucked into the marketing side ofthings like, Hey, can you create a sign?
(01:57):
We need a banner to go out on thestreet and advertise what's happening.
We need all the needs that keptcoming back to marketing and
what I realized in the process wasmy creativity just needed an outlet.
It didn't have to be music.
So I reached a point where I thinkactually marketing might be the way I
could have a creative outlet and getaway from some of the challenges of
(02:22):
music in terms of timelines and it'salways in the evenings and things that
weren't necessarily family friendly.
So right before we had our firstchild, I took a marketing job at a
place that had seen some work I haddone and said, we like what you did.
Could you come do it for us?
And so that led to 10 years in amarketing role that started like as a
(02:45):
part-time thing and I ended up runningthe department at the end of it.
And learned a lot.
It was an organization that hadlots and lots of creative freedom.
We had a great video team.
We had a great creative group as awhole who could sit around and do
what Disney calls, where you kind ofblue sky, imagine what could we do?
And it was a great place because ifyou could figure out a way to say,
(03:08):
here's why I think we could do it.
We could find some creative money totry things and we didn't blow lots
of cash, just trying everything.
But it was a place where at least we hadthe ability to let me go test this, and if
it works, then we can do it in the future.
So I really learned in thatplace that I loved marketing.
I love the creative aspect of it.
(03:31):
But I really felt like I could probablyhelp more than just one group here.
I think I could do this for a lot ofpeople and I could find a way to scale it.
So I decided to launch an agency.
I walk out and go, okay, well what ifI did creative services for people who
could never afford to have a full-time,full team in place but they needed like
(03:53):
this quasi space between a freelancerwho they didn't know and someone they
could actually sit across the table from.
So I launched an agency doing thatand doing lots of design work, website
work and that's kind of morphedfrom there over the last few years.
I actually do almost more consulting atthis point or creative CMO kind of work.
(04:13):
But that's kind of where the journeyhas been over the past 22 years now
of going from, Hey, I just need acreative outlet to, Hey, I love this.
This is a cool way to do this.
That is very cool and it'salways interesting to see how our
journeys lead us into one area.
Kind of similar.
When I was in a band trying to get fiveguys together on one timeline, seemed
(04:34):
like we had to wear different hats.
We had to be the creative director.
Now we're trying to be the tour manager.
We're trying to scheduleshows and build relationships.
But all of that kinda led you into acool new position opens up for marketing.
You take that and run with it.
And you had a little sandbox youcould play in with some of the
budget but that just kind of sparkedthis new creative outlet for you.
And you said, you know what?
Now I'm gonna help the people whocan't help themselves currently.
(04:54):
You're solving a need out there.
And then over the years, I thinkthat just kind of naturally
progressed into how do I kindaredefine what my service offering is?
Yep.
That really matches the client's needs.
So kudos to you for actuallybuilding that altogether.
Thanks.
Looking back, there's some moments ofincredible intentionality and some moments
of stumbling forward and stumbling intosome things going okay that worked and
(05:17):
other things are going that was a bad one.
But one of my things ishow can I serve them well?
And if I'm in front of these people,what do they need to be served well
and how can I take that and stillbe profitable in the middle of it.
But really at the end of the daythat's what clients walk away going.
Oh, he's a smaller agencybut he actually does better.
(05:40):
He actually serves our needsbetter, he helps us get to our
desired goals better than others do.
And there's almost this boutiquekind of touch to the services.
Very nice.
Yeah.
And it's kinda perfect blend wherethey don't need that full marketing
team but they still want someone bigenough that can accomplish the task
but still small enough to still bepersonable and not lose that intimate
(06:02):
relationship that you have with clients
'cause that's just how relationships workand client work kind of brings together.
But throughout that journey you realizethat the websites are main point of
contact for a lot of business ownersand businesses and we're leaving money
on the table if we don't either have agood website or if it's not optimized
for converting leads into customers.
So can you tell me more about your thoughtprocess behind the websites and then what
(06:25):
you do to kind of fix 'em up to be better?
Yeah, so what I find with a lot ofbusinesses and this is a B2B issue and
it's a B2C issue is that there is thissense within us as a business owner
that we want a website that looks great.
And so a lot of businesses go, Ineed a website that looks amazing
(06:47):
and does these cool things.
So we start with design in mindrather than communication in mind.
So often, I go through the templates thatI find online and I'm like, look amazing.
The business will build a websitethat looks pretty but it's not going
to meet the needs for their business.
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It's not gonna actually drive traffic.
It's not gonna tell their story.
Their missing key things thatare important in what a customer
needs to know about a businessto actually make a decision.
So I really came to this realizationthat I can build great looking
websites but great looking websitesdon't always serve clients well.
What they need is a website thatclearly articulates who they are, who
(07:32):
they serve, how they make people'slife better and what is the dang
next step you want me to take?
I visited a couple sites doing quickreviews this week and I'm like, I don't
know what action you want me to take.
I'm halfway down your landingpage and I am confused as to what
you want me to do or you've toldme 12 things you want me to do.
(07:53):
There's like no middle ground.
So what I have found and what I'vestarted doing is, what if we took a
strategic approach to website development?
We didn't start with, let's make itpretty, we started with what are the
core principles, the core things.
You need to distill your message downto that someone who's looking for
services like yours needs to know.
(08:15):
And so I've built a communicationsframework called Distill Your Story
Framework, where I walk peoplethrough, let's get the core elements
before you ever build a wireframe,before you ever talk to a developer.
Because the reality is you aren't goingto know what to ask them for to get
a quote until you do some pre-work.
(08:37):
And so I really like to start peoplewith some of that process of let's
figure out the core messaging things,then hire me, hire your friend, hire
someone to write it for you but at leastwe know what are the core things we've
gotta communicate for this businessto actually drive traffic and leads.
Absolutely.
And one of the issues that manybusinesses have and I've suffered from
(08:59):
as well is just really understandingthe direction and clarity that we
want to go with something, right?
We have this great idea and we'retrying to put it into words and
now we have a vision in our headbut how can we articulate that too,
someone else who's trying to build it
and if you don't have the copyto complement that, well, I think
they're not hired copywriters,they're designers, website designers,
sometimes both can be great togetherbut that's not always their expertise.
(09:21):
So you definitely needto build that story.
Yeah, gotta build the story andusually that takes time and a process.
And I'm finding with more and more ofthe businesses that I work with that
the best way to do that sometimesbecause business owners don't think like
copywriters is to just ask great questionsto start asking questions and documenting
(09:45):
stuff and trying to figure out, okay,if I could take what took them five
minutes and say it in three sentences,what would those three sentences say?
So that the headline of their websiteand the hero section, the about
section, the pieces that supporttheir business are super clear and
(10:06):
headline driven that anybody couldgrasp it in under five seconds.
Trying to communicate that message.
Visual communication is the creativedesigning piece, the word speak that
but visual communication also tiesinto everything that people kind of
infer or think about your business.
When you're building out these websitesdo this framework that you create,
(10:28):
I've heard that when some people arelacking their direction and how do I
figure out who am I and what do I do?
And they have this existential crisis.
A great way is to actually askany of your clients, how would
you describe my service to others?
And holy cow, that can be anenlightening moment to see, wow,
there's keywords and phrases in a waythat I would never think of myself
but your clients see us this way.
(10:48):
And that's a great way to kind oflead the direction for your copy.
Very much so.
And an example from my businessI have, it's really interesting.
I can do this for others fasterthan I can do it for myself.
I overthink it all but I asked the client,Hey, just tell me a little bit of what you
think this process has been like for you.
And they came back with me.
(11:09):
That something that was the gist of youhelped us find words to explain what we
do in ways that actually sound like us.
So it doesn't sound like marketing.
It doesn't sound like, slimy manipulation.
It tells our story.
In a way that still sounds likewe're telling it even though
it's told more succinctly thanif you were with them in person.
(11:31):
And I felt like that's thecore of this process is being
able to help people do that
And then you have that foundationyou can build upon that.
Now when you're considering awebsite, you mentioned things
about taking a clear next step.
Sometimes there isn't one.
Sometimes there's one but it's notdefined or there's 12 steps and you're
like, I don't know which direction to go.
(11:51):
Is there a certain next stepthat businesses should focus on?
I know there's some up in theair, depends on your industry.
What is the logical next step?
Do we want them to fill out a form?
Do we include a popup?
Is there a banner ad?Is it the chat widget?
What options do you recommend or haveyou found the most success for that
clear next step to the process?
So, there are twopotential calls to action.
(12:13):
There's a primary that you're gonnarepeat a bunch of times over the course
of your landing page, over the courseof your homepage, it's gonna exist a
lot of times throughout your website.
You may actually see it sevenplus times on the homepage alone.
What if people did absolutely nothing,what's the number one way that I would
like someone to interact with me.
(12:34):
And I typically tie that back towhat is the best way that people
get into your current funnel.
Now, don't reinvent the wheel.
Don't.
Do you like people to send you an email?
Would you prefer that they call you?
Do you want them to getinto your HubSpot account?
What is that?
(12:54):
And let's figure out how to sayit in a way that fits on a button.
That if I put a button in the upperright hand corner of my homepage, I put
a button throughout the content, I putlinks in the body copy of blog posts, that
it's short enough that people understandwhy they should click there and what
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action is going to happen if they do so.
I mean, things like schedule a callcome in for a demo, book an onsite demo.
Those type of things, depending on theindustry are usually the first step is.
But I really like to say, what isyour business actually doing now?
Don't make another layer of difficult.
(13:35):
Don't
add to it for yourself?
What is working?
Let's drive traffic to that.
I have a client right now who justasked me a couple weeks ago, they
said, I don't like the contact form.
It's driving me crazy.
We're getting contact but I'mout in the field 90% of the day.
I'm not getting back to peoplefast enough when their contact,
(13:58):
if they text me or call me, thenI get back to them within an hour.
I'm like, well then let'sjust change the structure.
Let's rejigger.
The calls to action on the site andchange it because it's gotta work for
you but you also realize I'm gonnagive them a better experience with
me if they have this call to action.
(14:20):
So a primary call to action and thena secondary, if they don't do anything
else, what do you want them to do?
Typically I throw that.
Some version of a contact page or aquick form or something like that.
That was a really long answer I realizedfor your question but the reality
I'm finding for most businesses.
It has to be congruent withwhat they're already doing.
(14:41):
We want digital marketing to work.
We want a website to drive trafficbut it's gotta drive traffic in
a way that actually works for us.
The one caveat that I have is ifyou're going to send them to something
like a call or something, find adang way to track it so you actually
know how many clicks are comingversus how many calls are coming.
(15:05):
Where are they coming from?
Are these actually legitimate people?
There's lots of resources depending on theplatform you're on to actually do that.
There's ways to set up yourGoogle Analytics to do that
but you just want to know.
With a contact form, it goes intothe database and I can say 50
people filled out the contact form.
And in this volume of time that's notalways the case if you're asking for
(15:28):
phone calls, texts, that type of things.
So you've just gotta find acreative way to make sure you're
gathering data to support.
It's actually working in your marketing.
But at the end of the day, it's gottawork for your business first and foremost.
Absolutely.
And no answer is ever too long-winded.
This is the kind of knowledge andinformation that we're looking for
the insightful stuff that just,Hey, I can't stop talking about it
(15:51):
'cause it's important informationto share which is so helpful.
So all great tips.
Love that we revision our websitea little bit, get it working for us.
But now how are we gonna get trafficinto that website that we just optimized?
I see that a lot of people areeither throwing money at ads, some
people focus on cold outbound.
There's a lot of differentstrategies for them.
(16:11):
Have there been certain ways with on alow budget that companies can be effective
with their strategy in getting clients?
So I am finding that.
That the people I'm servinghave gotta have two things.
You first of all have gotta make sureand I mentioned it prev just before that
you've gotta have some sort of trackingbecause if you're going to put money into
(16:32):
something, I wanna know if it's working.
It's one thing to hope organictraffic just finds you.
It's another thing to, if I'm putting $5,$10, $20 a day into something, I better be
able to show that I did increase traffic.
We got leads or we got people intothe funnel so I can tweak the funnel.
(16:53):
There's gotta be something but for me,the biggest piece is if I can figure out
what message the audience needs to hear,that's gonna be the most important part
because if I can't get them toeven take action, none of the
rest of the funnel matters.
Is the way I'm talking about mybusiness as clear as possible
(17:16):
in this ad. Is the ad copy good?
The beautiful thing about AI rightnow is it's helping, the Google
Ads dashboard, the Facebook adsdashboard, both has decent AI.
It is not blowing my mind but itis usable in terms of ideas and
ideating, what are variations on this?
(17:38):
In early years of web we did lots of ABtesting where you'd be like, let's try two
headlines and see which one works best.
Well, the beautiful thing about Facebookand Google is they'll do that for you.
Here's five versions and tellme, start testing through 'em.
And a couple things is make surewhat you're starting with is
super clear, especially if you'regonna help have AI help you.
(17:59):
Make sure you read through everyword the AI generated and is this
a clear articulation of who we are?
Is it accurate about who we are?
Did AI just make something up or is itactually accurate to what our offer is?
And then is it really clear whatwe're calling people to do the
action we want them to take?
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Because at the end of the day,I need them to click on that ad
so that whatever budget I putbehind it, I maximize my options.
Now the thing that I've been doinga lot is doing super targeted ads.
I'm not doing borderline cold outreach,meaning in this community there's super
(18:41):
proximity 25, 30 miles of to where thislocation is or what I might be promoting.
But then I'm doing like micro niches like.
I am looking for people who look likethese three things because that's
who typically buys this product.
One of the local businessesthat I serve is a formal wear
(19:02):
men's tuxedo rental suit rental.
They do proms, formals, weddings,kines, that kind of stuff.
And so we have had great successdoing micro targeted ads.
I only wanted to show ads to people whoare in this 15 to 20 year age gap who
have been doing these type of actions.
(19:25):
And it's made the potentialgroup go from super broad in
the community to super narrow.
But what it's done is increase theprobability of that ad being seen
by somebody who's actually lookingto take action in the near future.
So it's not gonna be seen bya hundred thousand people.
It's maybe only gonna be seen by10,000 people but when I have a $10
(19:46):
a day ad spend, I'd rather it be tothe right set of people than just to
anybody in a community of 500,000.
So some of those creative things.
Make sure your messaging is right.
Figure out how you could microtarget individuals or groups
we've even gotten creative with.
(20:07):
And this one actually, I didn'tlike this idea at first but I pushed
back on the guy who was like, Ithink we need to invest in this.
We started doing target micro targetedradio ads, like we found a radio program
that showed that it was only heard onESPN four hours a week and that ESPN show
(20:33):
was to a specific group of individualswho liked one micro section of football.
And I'm like, guys, this is theweirdest focused ad spend I've
ever heard and we started doing it.
And what we found was the people wewanted to reach were there because it
(20:55):
was the parents who were spending themoney who were listening to the show.
Wow.
And so the parents were the ones spendingthe money for their kids and because
their kids and all their friends' kidswere in those games that were being
on that ESPN station, they startedshowing up at the store and I'm like.
(21:21):
You took a side angle therethat I did not get to but wow.
That is a phenomenal wayto do microtargeting.
I mean that ESPN, essentially whatthey were doing was the baseball,
football, like any of the school sportskind of stuff in the entire community.
And like a hundred, 150 mile radius gottime during those four hours every week.
(21:45):
We started dropping radio ads andit worked because parents were
like, we heard you on the radio.
Their kid played in that gameand we heard you on the radio.
Okay.
That's not one that Ithought was gonna work.
And so all of it to say, get
creative with a piece of paper andwhere do the people who spend the
(22:06):
money on our product reside for thatbusiness, they wanted students who
were in a certain kind of life stage orlife age, so they look to the parents.
For others, I'm looking for people whowant solar and are thinking green energy.
Where are they showing up?
That's creative where I don'tneed 30K a month where I can do
(22:28):
targeted ad spend and get creative.
If I gave the right message,I could get my ad spend down.
How?
Where would a karate shop, a karate dojo?
In a small community, need to put theirstuff to get in front of the parents of
people who have kids 6 to 18 and thinkingmicrotargeting like that, I don't want
(22:51):
to spend thousands, I have hundreds.
What could I do?
And you don't wanna cast this wide net'cause you're gonna get a lot of people
who aren't interested, eyeballs on a pieceof content that they aren't interested in.
But I love that blended, traditionaland non-traditional marketing.
And sometimes even as marketers, we canbe pleasantly surprised with a campaign
thinking this isn't gonna go the way weexpect it to, whether for the worse or for
(23:11):
the better but that kind of informationgives us education for further ahead.
We're gonna ask you some morequestions about tools and AI
that you're using right now.
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(23:31):
up and chase these leads, we're gonnaghost see you after a few hours.
It's time to let AI nurture andautomate that buyer's journey for you.
Now, Ryan, we wanted to ask you morebecause you mentioned earlier with AI.
Using it to create some ideas, maybecreate some content or ideation off
of what you built currently, there'sa lot of cool tools out there.
AI is another tool in ourtoolbox that we can use.
(23:52):
Are there other ways that you're eitherusing AI or you've seen other businesses
who are starting to use AI as well?
So I'm using AI for
the hardest part I'm findingfor most of the businesses is
to get something on a page.
Initially to talk about their website.
(24:13):
They're not used to writing.
They're used to talking.
They're used to sales conversationswith people in their business, so is to
actually help them get an initial version.
Something on a page so thatit's easier usually to edit than
it is to create immediately.
(24:35):
So I talked about having great questionsand so what I will do is start asking
a series of questions and gettingthem to just stream of consciousness.
Here's bullet lists of the kind of answersthat they give to various questions and
I start dropping those questions andthose answers into chat and saying, if
(24:55):
you were going to talk about a businessthat provided X type of services.
How would you use this informationto create a landing page or create a
section that talks about products andservices that talks about the benefits
that people get from using services likethis and using then their own words to
(25:18):
help drive the chat responses ratherthan just going to chat and going.
Tell me what I should write as an ownerof a business like this and getting
really mediocre content but all ofa sudden I'm getting content that's
tied to the individual's responses.
I've gone so far as to actually aspart of my framework, I ask a ton of
(25:42):
questions and then I've got a supercomplicated chat prompt that you put
it in once but it takes anywhere from10 to 20 responses before it actually
gets through the whole thing becauseit keeps going back to the source and
going, okay, then on the next sectionand it dumps you out a rough draft of a
landing page at the end of the process.
(26:03):
It takes quite a while toget through it but the whole
idea was me just asking them.
Them going, oh, wellthose are the five things.
See, they answered that really fast.
Like that approach rather than tellme write down the benefits that your
business has for business owners
that could be an eight hour journeytrying for them to think of this.
(26:23):
Okay.
Board members.
Yes.
What does that look like?
Yeah.
And it's, who do I need to call?
Oh, Joe, over in sales, hecould get you that answer.
And I'm like, yeah, but I think youactually probably know it as the business
leader or the marketing director.
Just tell me in your words, let'sget something on paper because you're
usually it's a small brick and mortaror a small solopreneur or something,
(26:45):
there are gonna be other people inthe conversation after the initial.
First draft is there.
Someone else is gonna look at thiscontent, so you're gonna have other
eyeballs on it but you need somethingto be on paper to give to them.
So I'm using AI to help promptand take their questions.
I'm using things like perplexity.
To do deep research and goinglook at these topics, research top
(27:09):
people under these topics who haveservices like this, what problems
are they saying that they're solving?
How are they talking about this angle?
Where are there gaps.
So I'm using it to do some of thosekind of behind the scenes things that
aren't necessarily the actual writingof the content that's gonna be seen by
(27:30):
visitors on our website or sometimesit's in email sequences and stuff like
that but it's as much the researchside that I don't want to sit and spend
three hours trying to get this data
when AI will give me a spreadsheetand compare and contrast things for me
and all of a sudden I like that word.
I like that phrase.
I can assemble those into a usabledescription that we can now get something
(27:58):
on paper and begin to mull through.
I love that use of AI because one, it'sreducing friction within their journey.
That onboarding process seemsto take the longest and just the
brain power behind creating that.
If you can give them something to workwith instead of a blank slate, it's
easier for someone to say that is wrongor that is right than to come with
a fresh, organic idea on their own.
(28:20):
But great ways to implement AI.
And I think it's based on alsothe prompting that you put in.
For example, if I were to ask a chatGPT for similar types of headlines
and prompts like that and researchthis website, it still wouldn't
have those 2010 to 20 uniquequestions that you've built into it.
That's now using that asreference and data as well.
So it's a great use of AI.. Ryanwanted to ask, where can people find
(28:42):
you online and get connected with you?
Yeah, so the best placeis@distillyourstory.com and
there is a contact form there.
There's a schedule, a call form.
There's links to my social channels there.
It's a great way if you need some helpwith a website, you need help figuring
out some of the messaging side of things.
(29:04):
Happy to have a conversation with you.
I do really quick website reviewsfor free and essentially it's me
hitting record on a loom videoand shooting a 5 to 10 minute.
Let me just go through yourlanding page and here's what I see,
here's what I think is working.
Here's some of the thingsI'd make adjustments on.
So if your group is interestedin having a service like that,
(29:26):
I'm happy to do that for them.
Thank you, Ryan.
That sounds wonderful.
And we'll have those links available downin the show notes and the description so
everyone can take advantage of that offer.
Now, what are you lookingforward to most in 2025?
It's almost April in 2025.
Are you kind of sticking with everythingthat has you've been doing right?
Do you have new launches or campaigns orinitiatives that you're excited about?
Yeah, I have a book thatworking to finish up.
(29:50):
The Forward is the only section leftco-writing with somebody and it's
about telling the right stories inyour business and how you make sure
that the information you are sharing.
Is clear, concise and compelling.
And so working on that and I've beenleaning into more on the fractional CMO
(30:13):
kind of work and taking the pieces andmy agency could help fulfill some of
that or my freelance friends could helpfulfill some of it but the strategic
side is so much of what I love doing andit's why I love the messaging side is
it's more on the strategy of creativity.
So those are really the kind ofthings that I'm leaning into in 2025.
(30:36):
Very exciting.
If you either had to go in back intime and tell your younger entrepreneur
self one piece of advice or even just apiece of advice for other entrepreneurs,
something maybe they're feeling stuckor they're spinning their wheels,
what would be your piece of adviceto them to help them get unstuck?
Ask for help.
Find someone who has gonebefore you and asked for help.
(30:58):
The most successful businesspeople I know have a mentor.
They have a mentor that is similar inage who is doing something adjacent, not
necessarily the same thing but adjacent.
So it's not like you're competingfor clients but they are fighting
some of the same battles but thenthey also have someone who is
(31:19):
older than them who understands businessand who will spend time answering
tough questions about, we're stuck.
This isn't working because so oftenwhere we get stuck is not connected
to our products and services.
It's it's connected to business as awhole and we know what we do well but we
(31:39):
don't always know all the other piecesthat come with trying to run a business.
So find people to ask questions.
Ryan very well said.
Appreciate that advice 'causeit can be tough for us.
We feel like we're on our own island here.
We just need to ask for help andstart to get some mentorship to
just lead us in the right directionand stop this anxiety and worry.
That kind of fills our heads at timesbut I think that happens for many people.
(32:02):
We appreciate you coming on sharing youradvice, tips, tricks and wisdom with us.
Anything that we haven't coveredtoday that you at least want
to, Hey, I have one moment here.
Open floor for you, Ryan.
Take it away.
I feel like we've actually covered stuffpretty well but I would just say that
when you think about your marketing, thecore idea of marketing is that you've
(32:26):
got to be clear in what you say but youalso have to know, be on a shadow of a
doubt the destination you are aiming for
because the only way you will knowif your marketing is successful
is if you can measure if you'regetting closer to the goal each time.
Very well said, Ryan.
Thank you again for coming on.
(32:46):
We appreciate it.
We will see you again next time.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Chris.
Find someone who has gonebefore you and ask for help.
(00:05):
The most successful business peopleI know have a mentor, and they have
a mentor that is similar in agewho is doing something adjacent.
Not necessarily the samething, but adjacent.
So it's not like you're competingfor clients, but they are
fighting some of the same battles.
But then they also have someone who isolder than them who understands business.
(00:30):
Who will spend time answeringtough questions about, we're stuck.
This isn't working, because so oftenwhere we get stuck is not connected
to our products and services.
It's, it's connected to business as awhole, and we know what we do well, but
we don't always know all the other piecesthat come with trying to run a business.
(00:50):
So find people to ask questions.
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is the founderand strategist of Distill
Your Story, Ryan Holck.
He helps businesses, brands andsolopreneurs to clarify their
(01:12):
story, share it simply and deliverit strategically so they can
attract more leads and drive sales.
Ryan, so excited to have you on.
How you doing today?
Thank you for having me on today.
I am doing really well fightingsome sinus stuff but other
than that, things are good.
That is excellent.
You and me both brother, we'realways having those sinus issues
but hopefully we can make it throughand try to keep that to a minimum
but it's okay if it comes up.
We always like to ask ourentrepreneurs, what were you doing
(01:34):
before that kind of led you into thisjourney of what you're doing today?
I actually started as a musician andI see behind you you've got a couple
guitars, which is kind of cool.
So I was actually a perpiano performance major.
And I found that in a lot of the rolesthat I had as a musician, I kept getting
sucked into the marketing side ofthings like, Hey, can you create a sign?
(01:57):
We need a banner to go out on thestreet and advertise what's happening.
We need all the needs that keptcoming back to marketing and
what I realized in the process wasmy creativity just needed an outlet.
It didn't have to be music.
So I reached a point where I thinkactually marketing might be the way I
could have a creative outlet and getaway from some of the challenges of
(02:22):
music in terms of timelines and it'salways in the evenings and things that
weren't necessarily family friendly.
So right before we had our firstchild, I took a marketing job at a
place that had seen some work I haddone and said, we like what you did.
Could you come do it for us?
And so that led to 10 years in amarketing role that started like as a
(02:45):
part-time thing and I ended up runningthe department at the end of it.
And learned a lot.
It was an organization that hadlots and lots of creative freedom.
We had a great video team.
We had a great creative group as awhole who could sit around and do
what Disney calls, where you kind ofblue sky, imagine what could we do?
And it was a great place because ifyou could figure out a way to say,
(03:08):
here's why I think we could do it.
We could find some creative money totry things and we didn't blow lots
of cash, just trying everything.
But it was a place where at least we hadthe ability to let me go test this, and if
it works, then we can do it in the future.
So I really learned in thatplace that I loved marketing.
I love the creative aspect of it.
(03:31):
But I really felt like I could probablyhelp more than just one group here.
I think I could do this for a lot ofpeople and I could find a way to scale it.
So I decided to launch an agency.
I walk out and go, okay, well what ifI did creative services for people who
could never afford to have a full-time,full team in place but they needed like
(03:53):
this quasi space between a freelancerwho they didn't know and someone they
could actually sit across the table from.
So I launched an agency doing thatand doing lots of design work, website
work and that's kind of morphedfrom there over the last few years.
I actually do almost more consulting atthis point or creative CMO kind of work.
(04:13):
But that's kind of where the journeyhas been over the past 22 years now
of going from, Hey, I just need acreative outlet to, Hey, I love this.
This is a cool way to do this.
That is very cool and it'salways interesting to see how our
journeys lead us into one area.
Kind of similar.
When I was in a band trying to get fiveguys together on one timeline, seemed
(04:34):
like we had to wear different hats.
We had to be the creative director.
Now we're trying to be the tour manager.
We're trying to scheduleshows and build relationships.
But all of that kinda led you into acool new position opens up for marketing.
You take that and run with it.
And you had a little sandbox youcould play in with some of the
budget but that just kind of sparkedthis new creative outlet for you.
And you said, you know what?
Now I'm gonna help the people whocan't help themselves currently.
(04:54):
You're solving a need out there.
And then over the years, I thinkthat just kind of naturally
progressed into how do I kindaredefine what my service offering is?
Yep.
That really matches the client's needs.
So kudos to you for actuallybuilding that altogether.
Thanks.
Looking back, there's some moments ofincredible intentionality and some moments
of stumbling forward and stumbling intosome things going okay that worked and
(05:17):
other things are going that was a bad one.
But one of my things ishow can I serve them well?
And if I'm in front of these people,what do they need to be served well
and how can I take that and stillbe profitable in the middle of it.
But really at the end of the daythat's what clients walk away going.
Oh, he's a smaller agencybut he actually does better.
(05:40):
He actually serves our needsbetter, he helps us get to our
desired goals better than others do.
And there's almost this boutiquekind of touch to the services.
Very nice.
Yeah.
And it's kinda perfect blend wherethey don't need that full marketing
team but they still want someone bigenough that can accomplish the task
but still small enough to still bepersonable and not lose that intimate
(06:02):
relationship that you have with clients
'cause that's just how relationships workand client work kind of brings together.
But throughout that journey you realizethat the websites are main point of
contact for a lot of business ownersand businesses and we're leaving money
on the table if we don't either have agood website or if it's not optimized
for converting leads into customers.
So can you tell me more about your thoughtprocess behind the websites and then what
(06:25):
you do to kind of fix 'em up to be better?
Yeah, so what I find with a lot ofbusinesses and this is a B2B issue and
it's a B2C issue is that there is thissense within us as a business owner
that we want a website that looks great.
And so a lot of businesses go, Ineed a website that looks amazing
(06:47):
and does these cool things.
So we start with design in mindrather than communication in mind.
So often, I go through the templates thatI find online and I'm like, look amazing.
The business will build a websitethat looks pretty but it's not going
to meet the needs for their business.
(07:08):
It's not gonna actually drive traffic.
It's not gonna tell their story.
Their missing key things thatare important in what a customer
needs to know about a businessto actually make a decision.
So I really came to this realizationthat I can build great looking
websites but great looking websitesdon't always serve clients well.
What they need is a website thatclearly articulates who they are, who
(07:32):
they serve, how they make people'slife better and what is the dang
next step you want me to take?
I visited a couple sites doing quickreviews this week and I'm like, I don't
know what action you want me to take.
I'm halfway down your landingpage and I am confused as to what
you want me to do or you've toldme 12 things you want me to do.
(07:53):
There's like no middle ground.
So what I have found and what I'vestarted doing is, what if we took a
strategic approach to website development?
We didn't start with, let's make itpretty, we started with what are the
core principles, the core things.
You need to distill your message downto that someone who's looking for
services like yours needs to know.
(08:15):
And so I've built a communicationsframework called Distill Your Story
Framework, where I walk peoplethrough, let's get the core elements
before you ever build a wireframe,before you ever talk to a developer.
Because the reality is you aren't goingto know what to ask them for to get
a quote until you do some pre-work.
(08:37):
And so I really like to start peoplewith some of that process of let's
figure out the core messaging things,then hire me, hire your friend, hire
someone to write it for you but at leastwe know what are the core things we've
gotta communicate for this businessto actually drive traffic and leads.
Absolutely.
And one of the issues that manybusinesses have and I've suffered from
(08:59):
as well is just really understandingthe direction and clarity that we
want to go with something, right?
We have this great idea and we'retrying to put it into words and
now we have a vision in our headbut how can we articulate that too,
someone else who's trying to build it
and if you don't have the copyto complement that, well, I think
they're not hired copywriters,they're designers, website designers,
sometimes both can be great togetherbut that's not always their expertise.
(09:21):
So you definitely needto build that story.
Yeah, gotta build the story andusually that takes time and a process.
And I'm finding with more and more ofthe businesses that I work with that
the best way to do that sometimesbecause business owners don't think like
copywriters is to just ask great questionsto start asking questions and documenting
(09:45):
stuff and trying to figure out, okay,if I could take what took them five
minutes and say it in three sentences,what would those three sentences say?
So that the headline of their websiteand the hero section, the about
section, the pieces that supporttheir business are super clear and
(10:06):
headline driven that anybody couldgrasp it in under five seconds.
Trying to communicate that message.
Visual communication is the creativedesigning piece, the word speak that
but visual communication also tiesinto everything that people kind of
infer or think about your business.
When you're building out these websitesdo this framework that you create,
(10:28):
I've heard that when some people arelacking their direction and how do I
figure out who am I and what do I do?
And they have this existential crisis.
A great way is to actually askany of your clients, how would
you describe my service to others?
And holy cow, that can be anenlightening moment to see, wow,
there's keywords and phrases in a waythat I would never think of myself
but your clients see us this way.
(10:48):
And that's a great way to kind oflead the direction for your copy.
Very much so.
And an example from my businessI have, it's really interesting.
I can do this for others fasterthan I can do it for myself.
I overthink it all but I asked the client,Hey, just tell me a little bit of what you
think this process has been like for you.
And they came back with me.
(11:09):
That something that was the gist of youhelped us find words to explain what we
do in ways that actually sound like us.
So it doesn't sound like marketing.
It doesn't sound like, slimy manipulation.
It tells our story.
In a way that still sounds likewe're telling it even though
it's told more succinctly thanif you were with them in person.
(11:31):
And I felt like that's thecore of this process is being
able to help people do that
And then you have that foundationyou can build upon that.
Now when you're considering awebsite, you mentioned things
about taking a clear next step.
Sometimes there isn't one.
Sometimes there's one but it's notdefined or there's 12 steps and you're
like, I don't know which direction to go.
(11:51):
Is there a certain next stepthat businesses should focus on?
I know there's some up in theair, depends on your industry.
What is the logical next step?
Do we want them to fill out a form?
Do we include a popup?
Is there a banner ad?Is it the chat widget?
What options do you recommend or haveyou found the most success for that
clear next step to the process?
So, there are twopotential calls to action.
(12:13):
There's a primary that you're gonnarepeat a bunch of times over the course
of your landing page, over the courseof your homepage, it's gonna exist a
lot of times throughout your website.
You may actually see it sevenplus times on the homepage alone.
What if people did absolutely nothing,what's the number one way that I would
like someone to interact with me.
(12:34):
And I typically tie that back towhat is the best way that people
get into your current funnel.
Now, don't reinvent the wheel.
Don't.
Do you like people to send you an email?
Would you prefer that they call you?
Do you want them to getinto your HubSpot account?
What is that?
(12:54):
And let's figure out how to sayit in a way that fits on a button.
That if I put a button in the upperright hand corner of my homepage, I put
a button throughout the content, I putlinks in the body copy of blog posts, that
it's short enough that people understandwhy they should click there and what
(13:14):
action is going to happen if they do so.
I mean, things like schedule a callcome in for a demo, book an onsite demo.
Those type of things, depending on theindustry are usually the first step is.
But I really like to say, what isyour business actually doing now?
Don't make another layer of difficult.
(13:35):
Don't
add to it for yourself?
What is working?
Let's drive traffic to that.
I have a client right now who justasked me a couple weeks ago, they
said, I don't like the contact form.
It's driving me crazy.
We're getting contact but I'mout in the field 90% of the day.
I'm not getting back to peoplefast enough when their contact,
(13:58):
if they text me or call me, thenI get back to them within an hour.
I'm like, well then let'sjust change the structure.
Let's rejigger.
The calls to action on the site andchange it because it's gotta work for
you but you also realize I'm gonnagive them a better experience with
me if they have this call to action.
(14:20):
So a primary call to action and thena secondary, if they don't do anything
else, what do you want them to do?
Typically I throw that.
Some version of a contact page or aquick form or something like that.
That was a really long answer I realizedfor your question but the reality
I'm finding for most businesses.
It has to be congruent withwhat they're already doing.
(14:41):
We want digital marketing to work.
We want a website to drive trafficbut it's gotta drive traffic in
a way that actually works for us.
The one caveat that I have is ifyou're going to send them to something
like a call or something, find adang way to track it so you actually
know how many clicks are comingversus how many calls are coming.
(15:05):
Where are they coming from?
Are these actually legitimate people?
There's lots of resources depending on theplatform you're on to actually do that.
There's ways to set up yourGoogle Analytics to do that
but you just want to know.
With a contact form, it goes intothe database and I can say 50
people filled out the contact form.
And in this volume of time that's notalways the case if you're asking for
(15:28):
phone calls, texts, that type of things.
So you've just gotta find acreative way to make sure you're
gathering data to support.
It's actually working in your marketing.
But at the end of the day, it's gottawork for your business first and foremost.
Absolutely.
And no answer is ever too long-winded.
This is the kind of knowledge andinformation that we're looking for
the insightful stuff that just,Hey, I can't stop talking about it
(15:51):
'cause it's important informationto share which is so helpful.
So all great tips.
Love that we revision our websitea little bit, get it working for us.
But now how are we gonna get trafficinto that website that we just optimized?
I see that a lot of people areeither throwing money at ads, some
people focus on cold outbound.
There's a lot of differentstrategies for them.
(16:11):
Have there been certain ways with on alow budget that companies can be effective
with their strategy in getting clients?
So I am finding that.
That the people I'm servinghave gotta have two things.
You first of all have gotta make sureand I mentioned it prev just before that
you've gotta have some sort of trackingbecause if you're going to put money into
(16:32):
something, I wanna know if it's working.
It's one thing to hope organictraffic just finds you.
It's another thing to, if I'm putting $5,$10, $20 a day into something, I better be
able to show that I did increase traffic.
We got leads or we got people intothe funnel so I can tweak the funnel.
(16:53):
There's gotta be something but for me,the biggest piece is if I can figure out
what message the audience needs to hear,that's gonna be the most important part
because if I can't get them toeven take action, none of the
rest of the funnel matters.
Is the way I'm talking about mybusiness as clear as possible
(17:16):
in this ad. Is the ad copy good?
The beautiful thing about AI rightnow is it's helping, the Google
Ads dashboard, the Facebook adsdashboard, both has decent AI.
It is not blowing my mind but itis usable in terms of ideas and
ideating, what are variations on this?
(17:38):
In early years of web we did lots of ABtesting where you'd be like, let's try two
headlines and see which one works best.
Well, the beautiful thing about Facebookand Google is they'll do that for you.
Here's five versions and tellme, start testing through 'em.
And a couple things is make surewhat you're starting with is
super clear, especially if you'regonna help have AI help you.
(17:59):
Make sure you read through everyword the AI generated and is this
a clear articulation of who we are?
Is it accurate about who we are?
Did AI just make something up or is itactually accurate to what our offer is?
And then is it really clear whatwe're calling people to do the
action we want them to take?
(18:21):
Because at the end of the day,I need them to click on that ad
so that whatever budget I putbehind it, I maximize my options.
Now the thing that I've been doinga lot is doing super targeted ads.
I'm not doing borderline cold outreach,meaning in this community there's super
(18:41):
proximity 25, 30 miles of to where thislocation is or what I might be promoting.
But then I'm doing like micro niches like.
I am looking for people who look likethese three things because that's
who typically buys this product.
One of the local businessesthat I serve is a formal wear
(19:02):
men's tuxedo rental suit rental.
They do proms, formals, weddings,kines, that kind of stuff.
And so we have had great successdoing micro targeted ads.
I only wanted to show ads to people whoare in this 15 to 20 year age gap who
have been doing these type of actions.
(19:25):
And it's made the potentialgroup go from super broad in
the community to super narrow.
But what it's done is increase theprobability of that ad being seen
by somebody who's actually lookingto take action in the near future.
So it's not gonna be seen bya hundred thousand people.
It's maybe only gonna be seen by10,000 people but when I have a $10
(19:46):
a day ad spend, I'd rather it be tothe right set of people than just to
anybody in a community of 500,000.
So some of those creative things.
Make sure your messaging is right.
Figure out how you could microtarget individuals or groups
we've even gotten creative with.
(20:07):
And this one actually, I didn'tlike this idea at first but I pushed
back on the guy who was like, Ithink we need to invest in this.
We started doing target micro targetedradio ads, like we found a radio program
that showed that it was only heard onESPN four hours a week and that ESPN show
(20:33):
was to a specific group of individualswho liked one micro section of football.
And I'm like, guys, this is theweirdest focused ad spend I've
ever heard and we started doing it.
And what we found was the people wewanted to reach were there because it
(20:55):
was the parents who were spending themoney who were listening to the show.
Wow.
And so the parents were the ones spendingthe money for their kids and because
their kids and all their friends' kidswere in those games that were being
on that ESPN station, they startedshowing up at the store and I'm like.
(21:21):
You took a side angle therethat I did not get to but wow.
That is a phenomenal wayto do microtargeting.
I mean that ESPN, essentially whatthey were doing was the baseball,
football, like any of the school sportskind of stuff in the entire community.
And like a hundred, 150 mile radius gottime during those four hours every week.
(21:45):
We started dropping radio ads andit worked because parents were
like, we heard you on the radio.
Their kid played in that gameand we heard you on the radio.
Okay.
That's not one that Ithought was gonna work.
And so all of it to say, get
creative with a piece of paper andwhere do the people who spend the
(22:06):
money on our product reside for thatbusiness, they wanted students who
were in a certain kind of life stage orlife age, so they look to the parents.
For others, I'm looking for people whowant solar and are thinking green energy.
Where are they showing up?
That's creative where I don'tneed 30K a month where I can do
(22:28):
targeted ad spend and get creative.
If I gave the right message,I could get my ad spend down.
How?
Where would a karate shop, a karate dojo?
In a small community, need to put theirstuff to get in front of the parents of
people who have kids 6 to 18 and thinkingmicrotargeting like that, I don't want
(22:51):
to spend thousands, I have hundreds.
What could I do?
And you don't wanna cast this wide net'cause you're gonna get a lot of people
who aren't interested, eyeballs on a pieceof content that they aren't interested in.
But I love that blended, traditionaland non-traditional marketing.
And sometimes even as marketers, we canbe pleasantly surprised with a campaign
thinking this isn't gonna go the way weexpect it to, whether for the worse or for
(23:11):
the better but that kind of informationgives us education for further ahead.
We're gonna ask you some morequestions about tools and AI
that you're using right now.
A quick message from our sponsor, ifyou're tired of chasing those leads,
it's time to double your organic leadsand capture, nurture, and book them
on autopilot using focus biz.com.
If you're a solopreneur or smallbusiness, tired of trying to follow
(23:31):
up and chase these leads, we're gonnaghost see you after a few hours.
It's time to let AI nurture andautomate that buyer's journey for you.
Now, Ryan, we wanted to ask you morebecause you mentioned earlier with AI.
Using it to create some ideas, maybecreate some content or ideation off
of what you built currently, there'sa lot of cool tools out there.
AI is another tool in ourtoolbox that we can use.
(23:52):
Are there other ways that you're eitherusing AI or you've seen other businesses
who are starting to use AI as well?
So I'm using AI for
the hardest part I'm findingfor most of the businesses is
to get something on a page.
Initially to talk about their website.
(24:13):
They're not used to writing.
They're used to talking.
They're used to sales conversationswith people in their business, so is to
actually help them get an initial version.
Something on a page so thatit's easier usually to edit than
it is to create immediately.
(24:35):
So I talked about having great questionsand so what I will do is start asking
a series of questions and gettingthem to just stream of consciousness.
Here's bullet lists of the kind of answersthat they give to various questions and
I start dropping those questions andthose answers into chat and saying, if
(24:55):
you were going to talk about a businessthat provided X type of services.
How would you use this informationto create a landing page or create a
section that talks about products andservices that talks about the benefits
that people get from using services likethis and using then their own words to
(25:18):
help drive the chat responses ratherthan just going to chat and going.
Tell me what I should write as an ownerof a business like this and getting
really mediocre content but all ofa sudden I'm getting content that's
tied to the individual's responses.
I've gone so far as to actually aspart of my framework, I ask a ton of
(25:42):
questions and then I've got a supercomplicated chat prompt that you put
it in once but it takes anywhere from10 to 20 responses before it actually
gets through the whole thing becauseit keeps going back to the source and
going, okay, then on the next sectionand it dumps you out a rough draft of a
landing page at the end of the process.
(26:03):
It takes quite a while toget through it but the whole
idea was me just asking them.
Them going, oh, wellthose are the five things.
See, they answered that really fast.
Like that approach rather than tellme write down the benefits that your
business has for business owners
that could be an eight hour journeytrying for them to think of this.
(26:23):
Okay.
Board members.
Yes.
What does that look like?
Yeah.
And it's, who do I need to call?
Oh, Joe, over in sales, hecould get you that answer.
And I'm like, yeah, but I think youactually probably know it as the business
leader or the marketing director.
Just tell me in your words, let'sget something on paper because you're
usually it's a small brick and mortaror a small solopreneur or something,
(26:45):
there are gonna be other people inthe conversation after the initial.
First draft is there.
Someone else is gonna look at thiscontent, so you're gonna have other
eyeballs on it but you need somethingto be on paper to give to them.
So I'm using AI to help promptand take their questions.
I'm using things like perplexity.
To do deep research and goinglook at these topics, research top
(27:09):
people under these topics who haveservices like this, what problems
are they saying that they're solving?
How are they talking about this angle?
Where are there gaps.
So I'm using it to do some of thosekind of behind the scenes things that
aren't necessarily the actual writingof the content that's gonna be seen by
(27:30):
visitors on our website or sometimesit's in email sequences and stuff like
that but it's as much the researchside that I don't want to sit and spend
three hours trying to get this data
when AI will give me a spreadsheetand compare and contrast things for me
and all of a sudden I like that word.
I like that phrase.
I can assemble those into a usabledescription that we can now get something
(27:58):
on paper and begin to mull through.
I love that use of AI because one, it'sreducing friction within their journey.
That onboarding process seemsto take the longest and just the
brain power behind creating that.
If you can give them something to workwith instead of a blank slate, it's
easier for someone to say that is wrongor that is right than to come with
a fresh, organic idea on their own.
(28:20):
But great ways to implement AI.
And I think it's based on alsothe prompting that you put in.
For example, if I were to ask a chatGPT for similar types of headlines
and prompts like that and researchthis website, it still wouldn't
have those 2010 to 20 uniquequestions that you've built into it.
That's now using that asreference and data as well.
So it's a great use of AI.. Ryanwanted to ask, where can people find
(28:42):
you online and get connected with you?
Yeah, so the best placeis@distillyourstory.com and
there is a contact form there.
There's a schedule, a call form.
There's links to my social channels there.
It's a great way if you need some helpwith a website, you need help figuring
out some of the messaging side of things.
(29:04):
Happy to have a conversation with you.
I do really quick website reviewsfor free and essentially it's me
hitting record on a loom videoand shooting a 5 to 10 minute.
Let me just go through yourlanding page and here's what I see,
here's what I think is working.
Here's some of the thingsI'd make adjustments on.
So if your group is interestedin having a service like that,
(29:26):
I'm happy to do that for them.
Thank you, Ryan.
That sounds wonderful.
And we'll have those links available downin the show notes and the description so
everyone can take advantage of that offer.
Now, what are you lookingforward to most in 2025?
It's almost April in 2025.
Are you kind of sticking with everythingthat has you've been doing right?
Do you have new launches or campaigns orinitiatives that you're excited about?
Yeah, I have a book thatworking to finish up.
(29:50):
The Forward is the only section leftco-writing with somebody and it's
about telling the right stories inyour business and how you make sure
that the information you are sharing.
Is clear, concise and compelling.
And so working on that and I've beenleaning into more on the fractional CMO
(30:13):
kind of work and taking the pieces andmy agency could help fulfill some of
that or my freelance friends could helpfulfill some of it but the strategic
side is so much of what I love doing andit's why I love the messaging side is
it's more on the strategy of creativity.
So those are really the kind ofthings that I'm leaning into in 2025.
(30:36):
Very exciting.
If you either had to go in back intime and tell your younger entrepreneur
self one piece of advice or even just apiece of advice for other entrepreneurs,
something maybe they're feeling stuckor they're spinning their wheels,
what would be your piece of adviceto them to help them get unstuck?
Ask for help.
Find someone who has gonebefore you and asked for help.
(30:58):
The most successful businesspeople I know have a mentor.
They have a mentor that is similar inage who is doing something adjacent, not
necessarily the same thing but adjacent.
So it's not like you're competingfor clients but they are fighting
some of the same battles but thenthey also have someone who is
(31:19):
older than them who understands businessand who will spend time answering
tough questions about, we're stuck.
This isn't working because so oftenwhere we get stuck is not connected
to our products and services.
It's it's connected to business as awhole and we know what we do well but we
(31:39):
don't always know all the other piecesthat come with trying to run a business.
So find people to ask questions.
Ryan very well said.
Appreciate that advice 'causeit can be tough for us.
We feel like we're on our own island here.
We just need to ask for help andstart to get some mentorship to
just lead us in the right directionand stop this anxiety and worry.
That kind of fills our heads at timesbut I think that happens for many people.
(32:02):
We appreciate you coming on sharing youradvice, tips, tricks and wisdom with us.
Anything that we haven't coveredtoday that you at least want
to, Hey, I have one moment here.
Open floor for you, Ryan.
Take it away.
I feel like we've actually covered stuffpretty well but I would just say that
when you think about your marketing, thecore idea of marketing is that you've
(32:26):
got to be clear in what you say but youalso have to know, be on a shadow of a
doubt the destination you are aiming for
because the only way you will knowif your marketing is successful
is if you can measure if you'regetting closer to the goal each time.
Very well said, Ryan.
Thank you again for coming on.
(32:46):
We appreciate it.
We will see you again next time.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Chris.
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