Join George Haymaker in a compelling discussion about his personal story of transformation through addiction and the pivotal neuroscience principles that helped him emerge victorious. This episode offers a deep exploration into the mental hurdles we face when seeking change, and how understanding the brain’s wiring can lead to profound clarity and resilience. Listeners will resonate with George’s journey and gain inspiration for their own paths to recovery and self-awareness.
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Company Website: https://www.georgehaymaker.com
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Connect with Chris Troka:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-troka-3a093058/
Website: https://focused-biz.com/
Website: https://christroka.com/ #brainwork #framework #business #brain #neuroscience #clarity #selfawareness
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
The brain is predicting how itthinks you're going to think,
(00:03):
feel, or behave in these moments.
In other words, a lot of timeswe get overwhelmed by our minds
because we let their minds ruleus when the brain is a recording
of everything we've ever shown it.
An identity is something thatwe construct for ourselves,
that it's how we view ourselves.
Personality is how other people see us.
(00:24):
Identity is how we view ourselves.
How do you wanna livethe rest of your life?
What are your values gonna be?
What are your strengths?
I. What are your character traits?
What are your belief systems aboutyourself and the world around you?
We start to see the beneficial results ofacting and thinking and feeling that way.
And because it's in alignment with whowe truly want to be inside, it doesn't
(00:47):
have any mental friction attachedto it 'cause we're finally being
the person that we're meant to be.
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is a brain scienceeducator and coach who helps growth
oriented professionals level up theirbrain performance through education and
(01:10):
insights and cutting edge brain science.
So excited to have 'em on today.
George Haymaker.
How you doing today?
Great, Chris.
Great to be on and hello everyone.
We always like to ask our entrepreneurs,tell us about your journey.
What were you doing before thatkind of led you into this journey
of education and brain science?
Oh boy.
You have a minute?
(01:31):
Just a couple.
Yeah.
We got time.
All right.
Well, it's a bit of a story.
I didn't graduate from collegethinking I would go into brain science.
It happened through thecircuitous route of life.
I was an entrepreneur for many yearsand I decided at the age of 30 that I
just didn't like to work for people.
I decided that autonomy was oneof my most important psychological
(01:53):
needs and I wanted to serve that.
I went to work starting,founding, building, leading.
I think it's been five or sixdifferent businesses now over the
next three and a half decades.
All different types of businessesin telecom and manufacturing
and metals, distribution andrestaurants and ice cream brands.
A variety of differentindustries and types of
(02:17):
services and products and businesses.
That's been pretty varied but alongthe way I was struggling mentally.
I grew up in an environment thatwas privileged in many ways and yet
unsettling in others psychologically.
My parents were successful and weprobably moved 35 times in my life,
I was always in and out of new anddifferent schools, having to say
(02:38):
goodbye to friends, meet new friends.
I was heavily disciplined as a kid.
I would get disciplined physicallyand that only made my psychology a
little more challenging and unsettled.
There was some other types of abusethat happened at a younger age.
So I was uncomfortable in my ownskin, struggling for self-esteem.
I had self-doubt.
(02:59):
I was highly emotionallyreactive, tons of anxiety.
I also had a lot ofaddiction in my family.
My entire mom's side ofmy family were addicts.
So I had that in my genes andit got expressed through the
stress I went through as a child.
And when I got to college, I founddrugs and alcohol and find that as the
solution for all of my mental discomfort.
(03:22):
I used that as a solution for much of myadult life as I was struggling mentally
even though I was highly functioningand performing well in business.
I was struggling underneaththe cover, so to speak.
And I would binge and use drugsand alcohol in various degrees
over the years while I was
working these entrepreneurialventures and use that as a solution
(03:42):
to cope with mental discomfort.
The problem is that addiction only headsone direction and it heads no place good.
Finally I became addictedto drugs and alcohol.
I had no more control over whetherI was going to use them or not.
I needed to use them.
It was part of my addictivepattern and it got really bad.
And in my early fifties, I was taking 50pain pills a day and drinking two bottles
(04:06):
of vodka and it just got super ugly.
My wife had left me, my dogs had left me.
You're in trouble whenyour dogs leave you.
And I found myself in rehab andstarted a process of hitting hard
bottom, lots of consequences hadbuilt up and at that point it's either
die or try to figure out a new way.
(04:28):
And that's what I was leftwith this need and desire.
I summoned the wherewithal, the innerstrength to try something new and
different because clearly everything Ihad tried to that point was not working.
It had led me to a hard bottom.
So I entered 12 step program butI also became very curious about
why my brain had become addicted.
(04:52):
Why I was so uncomfortable in my mind.
And I just wanted to know the whys,wheres and how and all of that 'cause
I'm a curious kind of individual andit helps me to understand one thing
for somebody to tell me what to do.
It's another thing for me tounderstand it and actually take
ownership and be empowered by it.
And that's what led me downthis journey of self-discovery
(05:15):
and research and education.
I read a bunch of books on psychologyand spirituality and it took me to
the brain neuroscience because allof this is formulated in the brain.
It turns out as I was learningthat the brain is really magical.
It can create patterns butit also can create new ones.
(05:36):
So we're not stuck with who we are.
The brain has what's calledneuroplasticity, which its ability
to change, adapt and evolve.
It can modify itself based onsomething different that we want to be.
Use this information to transformmyself and rewire my own brain and the
results were so meaningful to me and sotransformative that when I was looking
(06:01):
for the next thing to do a few years ago,I said, why would I keep this to myself?
It's been the most important,impactful thing of my life.
I'll bet you other people aregoing through similar things,
whether their addicts or not,they could still be struggling.
Why don't I take all this and see ifother people might find it valuable?
That's when I went and took a bunch ofgraduate level coursework in neuroscience.
(06:23):
I got certified in coaching and now whatI do is take people inside their own
brains to understand how they work andunderstand how influential they can be in
their own mental brain performance, theirown mental outcomes and how they are today
does not have to be how they are forever.
I appreciate you sharing that journeywith us because it's not comfortable
(06:45):
for us to share something that justmakes us so vulnerable but it really
shares both what other people arestruggling with and what they can
overcome simply by empowering themselvesand just reworking their brains here.
There are people that I even think of inmy mind that could benefit from something
like this, whether myself 'cause weall have struggles focusing either it's
brain fog or we're just lack confidenceand so many people struggle with this.
(07:08):
So the fact that you're working outthere to improve it, we appreciate that.
Tell me more about the processand how does the brain science
work that allowed you to overcomeeverything that you've done?
How can it help others?
The first thing tounderstand is the brain.
How it is today?
Because of all the thoughts,feelings and emotions and experiences
(07:30):
that we've ever had in our life.
It's really just a filing cabinet ora hard drive of all of our experiences
that we've ever had and the morethat we practice those experiences or
reengage in them or reiterate them,the stronger those patterns become.
It's almost like you could save adocument once in your hard drive.
(07:54):
Then if that document kept reappearingover and over again and you kept saving
it because you kept engaging in it, let'scall it an unhelpful pattern, whether
it's lack of confidence or multitaskingor procrastination, these are all
patterns that your brain practices andthe more times it practices them, the
(08:16):
stronger and more ingrained that they get.
That's why these things developand they keep reappearing and
we keep reengaging in them.
It is because the brain has saved themand when you encounter new situations, the
brain keeps bringing those forward to youas an option for you to reengage in again.
(08:37):
They're called predictions.
The brain is predicting how itthinks you're going to think,
feel or behave in these moments.
And because these are the memoriesthat you've saved, they're the ones
that the brain keeps bringing forward.
That's why we get stuck or strugglewith the same things over and over
again is because of that dynamic.
So what we have to do then is a processof analyzing those patterns, understanding
(09:05):
how they developed, when they developedand usually these things trace back
to a lot of times our childhood whenwe're forming our brains and we analyze
what the root causes of them are.
So why did they develop and whydo they keep perpetuating today?
Then just by virtue of having thatunderstanding of them, it almost
(09:28):
allows you to separate from themand look at them objectively.
In other words, a lot of timeswe get overwhelmed by our minds
because we let the minds rule uswhen the brain is a recording of
everything we've ever shown it.
And we deconstruct these patterns, lookat them objectively and then we try to
loosen the grip that they have on us.
(09:50):
We look at evidence as the factthat they maybe started years ago,
why aren't they helpful anymore?
And what are they costing us todayto continue to reengage in them?
If a friend of yours wasgoing through similar things.
What would you tell themabout these patterns?
So what we try to do is look atthem, all the costs associated with
(10:12):
them, why they're not true anymoreand how we might coach somebody
else who's a friend of ours.
If they had these patterns,what would we tell them to do?
This begins to loosen the grip thatthese patterns have on us and open
windows for the brain to consider newpossibilities and new ways of being.
And then what we do is weconstruct new patterns that
(10:32):
align with a preferred identity.
An identity is something thatwe construct for ourselves,
that it's how we view ourselves.
Personality is how other people see us.
Identity is how we view ourselves.
So when we struggle with confidenceor struggle with these other
things that are holding us back.
These become part of our identity,but they're not part of our
(10:54):
preferred identity, the one thatwe want to have for ourselves.
We basically draw up and construct andthis is part of the work I do with people.
What is your preferred identity?
How do you wanna livethe rest of your life?
What are your values gonna be?
What are your strengths?
What are your character traits?
What are your belief systems aboutyourself and the world around you?
(11:15):
How do you want to think, feel and act?
And we basically create this character.
It's very much like an actor gettinga new script from a director saying,
here's your character for this movie.
And you have to go rehearse and learnthat character and learn everything
about them, how they think, howthey feel, how they act, so that you
can actually become that character.
(11:36):
So what we do is, we design this newpreferred individual with a new identity
and then we actually start to rehearsethat person, then as we experience
that person, we are experiencing thereward that comes from being more
in alignment with this person andall of a sudden our mental friction
starts to go down because we're actingconfidently even though we might be
(12:01):
going through the motionsfor a little while.
We start to see the beneficial results ofacting and thinking and feeling that way.
And because it's in alignment with whowe truly want to be inside, it doesn't
have any mental friction attachedto it 'cause we're finally being
the person that we're meant to be.
And that all goes away and we startto feel better about ourselves.
(12:21):
When we start to feel betterabout ourselves, the brain
gets rewarded by that.
We get these goosebumps.
We get these surges of neurotransmitters.
They're neurochemicals thatare feel good chemicals.
Things like dopamine,serotonin, endorphins, oxytocin.
Whenever we feel good aboutanything, these are the chemicals
that are surging through us.
(12:43):
And this process is lots of repetitionand lots of reward and as we experience
our old self gets triggered, we catch it.
We look at it objectively and we don'tengage in it because every time we engage
in an old pattern, it reinforces thatwe wanna stay on this side of the fence.
(13:04):
Keep reinforcing our new patterns, our newidentity, this new character of ourselves.
And it's a process.
It takes time, it takes diligence,commitment and motivation and willpower
at the beginning, but it gets easierand easier as the brain begins to
understand that it's safe, that it'srewarding and that it's actually more
beneficial than the old way of being.
(13:27):
Wow.
All of this is so fascinating to me.
Just trying to understand howthe brain works and the fact
that it can accomplish so much.
It can be our best friend orour worst enemy in a sense.
And I've always been curiousabout what do we have as instinct
versus a learned behavior.
It almost seems like our instincts arethe learned behavior of whether our
past or the generations in the past.
(13:47):
So it's fascinating to understand that wecould even rewire the way that we think.
Those options could be differentoptions if we allowed ourselves to
think about what is a bad optionto us and what could be good.
And then start practicing that learnedbehavior so that way we're becoming
the person that we want to be andnot that old person that we were.
Exactly.
It's important to rememberthat the brain is a follower,
(14:10):
it's a record keeping device.
These thoughts and emotions andpatterns and behaviors that emerge
into our our minds from our brains.
They're simply regurgitation ofwhat we've practiced in the past.
So when we look at that, it'slike, okay, it's not the truth.
We don't have to believe it or we don'thave to engage in it and repetition it
(14:34):
again, it's just simply presented to usby the brain as a prediction for how we
should think, feel and behave in thismoment, because that's all it knows,
that's how we've trained it in the past.
If you had a dog and you trainedit to bark and barking is no longer
helpful because it's driving you nuts.
(14:55):
Then you can train your dog to notbark by training it and treating it,
giving it reward when it doesn't bark.
Then it will begin to reorient itsbehavior around what is gonna give
it reward or the treat in the future.
It's very similar.
The brain is more than willingto change, adapt and evolve.
And what I mean by that?
Neurologically and physiologically isthat the brain is made up of 85 billion
(15:19):
neurons, which are the brain cells, andthey string together in patterns across
a string could go from one part of thebrain to another part of the brain.
All the different aspects of yourbrain that are involved in a single
function are strung together.
These neurons are strung togetherand the more times we engage in that
(15:39):
pattern, they light up every time weengage in it and it lights up through
electrical and chemical signaling.
And if you had a MRI, you wouldactually see that pathway, which
is a string of neurons lightup like a Christmas tree light.
If that pattern is not helpful?
(15:59):
We cannot light up that pattern anymore.
If a pattern appear in our minds fromour brain, because it's experienced
it before and it's bringing it toour mind as an option for us to
consider, we can't engage in it.
Otherwise, we will put more electricaland chemical signaling through it.
Putting water and fertilizer on a plant.
(16:20):
So when you put water andfertilizer on a plant, guess what?
The plant gets bigger andstronger and we don't want that.
That's why we stop engaging inthese patterns that are unhelpful
because we don't wanna make themany stronger and any more ingrained.
We've already done enough of that.
When we construct new and differentpatterns that represent who we
really want to be, that's whatwe have to water and fertilize.
(16:41):
By virtue of that, these neuronsthat have formed these patterns
that are unhelpful, begin to weaken.
They're not getting any moreelectrical or chemical signaling,
no more fertilizer, they don'tthink that they're useful anymore.
The brain begins to look at thesebecause they haven't fired or
wired together in so long becausewe're not engaging in that anymore.
(17:05):
The connection between theseneurons begins to break down.
And it begins to weaken.
And these neurons can actually breakapart from the pathway and drift
around and they'll form a new pathway.
They're now open to forming a new pattern.
Then when we enact and create new patternsthat are more helpful, that represent
(17:26):
this new person that we want to be, theseneurons will then break apart from the
old pattern and move and form a new one.
So that's what actually happensin these neurons, and that's why
our brains are changing every daybased on the new experiences that we
experience and the new memories thatwe have and all of that or the new
habits that we're trying to create.
These neurons are actuallymoving and shifting around.
(17:47):
So think of your brainas like this roadmap.
For Rand McNally, you look at a roadmapof the United States with all the roads
and rivers and bridges and everything.
Everybody's brain looks different becausewe've all had different experiences.
Our neurons are all mapped differently.
But you can actually shift that maparound and make it look different
if you start engaging in new anddifferent activities and practices that
(18:10):
represent a different way of being.
Wow.
I'm gonna have more brain relatedquestions here in a moment,
but I wanted to ask what theprocess is working with you.
What does it take for someone to eitherget started or sign up with you and
tell me what that process is like?
I'm on a lot of socialmedia, as you might imagine.
LinkedIn is a main one.
(18:30):
My name is George Haymaker, andit's spelled like it sounds.
You'll find me on LinkedIn.
You'll find me on Facebook.
Do a lot of short videoinstructional things on YouTube.
I do a podcast.
Train your brain, master your mind.
I have a website, george haymaker.com.
And actually there's a link for freediscovery call where we can chat and
(18:51):
talk about what's going on with you andsee if we're a fit to work together.
But I'm telling you, this brain sciencestuff is real and it works for everyone.
Everybody's brain is capable.
And if you've ever heard that changeisn't possible or a tiger doesn't change
a stripes it's not because they can't.
It's because they won't or they haven'ttried or they don't understand how.
(19:16):
It's so fascinating.
And we'll have those links available downin the show notes and the description
so everyone can get con connected here.
I wanted to ask about a brainscience question as it relates to
positivity, hope and inspiration.
There was a study done where they hadplaced rats into water and without
any intervention, the rats lastedmaybe maybe 10 minutes in the water.
(19:37):
But if you lifted them upat any time and saved them?
That had retrained them and
the next time that they went intothe water, they stayed within
the water afloat for 60 hours.
So there was that inspiration, thathope and positivity, that somehow
there's light at the end of the tunnel.
I might be saved.
Is there anything that we can learnfrom that study that applies to how the
(19:58):
way that our brains work when it comesto positivity, inspiration and hope?
Yeah.
Well the first thing is, the brain'snumber one job is to keep us safe
and alive and manage resources, toconserve resources in the interest
of keeping us safe and alive.
(20:19):
The brain doesn't care if you geta bigger car or a bigger house,
a nicer car, have nicer clothes.
All it cares about is,can I keep you safe?
Can I keep you in survival so thatyou can have babies and continue
on with the species and that wiringgoes back few hundred thousand
years, the evolution of humans.
(20:41):
To your example, if those micewould've been under big time threat.
Their lives would've been threatened.
When you show them how to survive, thatthere is a way to survive and be safe.
It's gonna learn.
There's nothing more importantto the brain than that.
So the brain will immediatelystore that information.
(21:04):
Ways of surviving situations that arethreatening, that it's learned about.
Like at the very top of the list.
nothing is more salient to thebrain than avoiding threats and
keeping us safe and in survival.
And the other component of that is,once something is learned, it does store
(21:25):
in memory and is there for retrievalwhen circumstances are presented to it.
Your concepts around hope and inspiration.
The more times that we remember,the brain is highly trainable.
But when you practice openinspiration, you develop neural
pathways around that patterns versuspracticing dread and self-defeat.
(21:52):
It'll learn those pathways good and bad.
Depending on what you practice.
So really important to rememberthat what you train, what you engage
in, what you think, feel, and act.
It gets recorded in this harddrive of ours called the brain.
(22:12):
And when you hit these moments that wecall upon either hope or inspiration
or dread self and self-defeat.
Whatever you've practiced inthose situations will be what the
brain pulls forward and presentsto you as the best solution.
(22:33):
And so that's why positive thinkingand all the things that are helpful to
you are really important to practiceso that your brain will go get those
previous concepts and bring them forwardin moments that you really need them.
I love that.
And of speaking of building off ofthat and the learned behaviors towards
(22:53):
positive or negative, do you feel likeour social circle, our friends and our
family have a direct impact on some ofour behaviors and learned behaviors?
Yeah, very much so.
One of the things that are hardwiredinto our brain and one of the six
core psychological needs that we allhave as human beings is togetherness.
(23:14):
We are social creatures.
And we're meant to live in tribes.
And the reason for that is becauseback in the old days, when we were
cavemen and there were threats allaround us in the form of dinosaurs ,we
learned that if we banded together andoperated in tribes, we stand at a better
(23:38):
chance of surviving than if we didn't.
The dinosaurs would pick us off ifwe were by by ourselves or alone.
And that's also why we're givenneurochemicals, why our brain fires feel
good, chemicals when we're in love whenwe're mating, when we have great friends.
(23:58):
That's why it feels good isbecause we're meant to have those
associations because it helps ussurvive and it's how we're wired.
So clearly then in thoserelationships, we are gonna be
affected by those interactions.
But the other thing I also wannasay about that is then if we
(24:19):
understand how the brain works,then we're not only understanding
how our brain works, but we'reunderstanding how other people's works.
It helps us avoid conflict because ifsomebody is acting in a certain way,
by virtue of our understanding of thebrain, be able to then look at that
situation differently than just feelingconfronted or attacked by it, we might
(24:44):
feel empathy for that individual, forthat brain, and say, what is this person?
This is what they may be going through.
Then over time you stop interactingwith people and you start
interacting with their brains.
Like brain to brain.
Brain knowledge is just soimportant for every aspect of life
because again, it's not fixed.
(25:05):
It is so adaptable and broad and variedin terms of its outcomes that we have the
ability to cultivate and make differencesin it the same way we do in our body.
Here's a great analogy.
We all know the difference of what beingin the best shape of our life ever felt
like and we know what it felt like tobe in the worst shape of our lives.
(25:27):
And there's a. Huge range of outcomesin between those two extremes.
That's the same range of outcomesthat are available in our brains.
So the question becomes, wherein that range are we right now
with our brain performance?
Are we in the best shape we've ever been?
Are we in the worst shape and dowe even know how to move it from
(25:52):
where we are to the best shape?
And that's what I help people do, helpthem with the information, the knowledge
and the tools to begin to improve andaffect their brain performance and
mental outcomes by themselves becausethey're now aware of how all this works.
I love that.
Now, are there any commonmisconceptions within the field
(26:14):
of neuroscience, brain science?
I guess either commonly held beliefs thatwere shattered later or we discovered
new information that just led us downa different path about brain science?
Well I guess the thing that comes tomind is there's all different types
of coaching and therapy out there.
Different approaches you can find.
(26:36):
Gurus everywhere.
What I will tell you is that ifwhoever you're working with whatever
doctrine you follow, advice you get,individual you work with, if what
they're doing does not cause thoseneurons to shift into a new and different
(26:58):
pattern, at least the ones that areunhelpful that you're trying to change.
What if the methodologies that they'reusing and the tools they're giving you are
not causing that change, then it's likeputting a bandaid on something because
sure enough, if the brain doesn't havea new record concept or memory in which
(27:24):
to bring forward into your mind thatit's gonna keep bringing the old ones.
If you don't practice and repeat anddevelop new habits, all of which involve
reward and emotional engagement insomething new and different and do it long
enough to where the brain's go to, thenyou are simply not going to transform and
(27:50):
change in a long lasting, sustainable way.
That is for sure that is neuroscience.
That's the thing I would ask everybodyto question is, what I'm doing?
Is it going to cause long lastingsustainable change by disengaging
old unhelpful patterns and causingnew patterns to neurologically
(28:13):
form developing new neural pathwayswhere I can then count on this
recurring and being presented to mymind in a in place of the old patterns.
That's really the acid test of whether ornot you know what you're doing is working.
Everyone has to reach out to GeorgeHaymaker, the expert on neuroscience
(28:35):
and the educator and coach.
Wanted to ask George one morequestion before we sign off here.
What are you excited for most in 2025?
Do you have any new products, newthings that you're launching, you're
kind of building or working towards?
Or are you maintaining everythingthat you've been working on already?
Thanks for asking.
I'm actually starting a new groupcoaching program called The Brain Club
(28:56):
and it's where it's a subscription based,a modest amount to join this club and
it's on a platform that allows us toall engage together and collaborate.
It's made up of growth-mindedprofessionals but anyone that's
interested in their brains and how theycould take control of this marvelous
capability that we have and improve it.
(29:19):
Within that club we'll do weekly Zoomcalls, which will be full of education
and Q&A and applying it to our lives.
There will be weekly articles sent out.
Newsletters.
Membership modules, training modules,very similar to going to the gym.
I actually call this the brain club,a gym membership for your brain.
(29:39):
We all know what gym memberships are forour bodies but this is a gym membership
for your brain, it trains you to beable to learn more about how your brain
works and then take control of it thesame way you've done with your bodies.
It gives you that same levelof control and empowerment over
your brain as you have your body.
That's gonna be coming out shortly.
(29:59):
And I think I'll share the link at howto become involved in with you Chris
and you can share it with the audience.
That is wonderful.
Looking forward to it.
Make sure you get connected.
We'll have links availabledown on the show notes and
description here for everyone.
Thank you George for coming on theshow and sharing all this fascinating
information about how our brain works,how we can retrain it and just the future
potential that we could be capable ofif we simply understand how it works
(30:21):
and how we can make those changes.
You bet, Chris, my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
The brain is predicting how itthinks you're going to think,
(00:03):
feel, or behave in these moments.
In other words, a lot of timeswe get overwhelmed by our minds
because we let their minds ruleus when the brain is a recording
of everything we've ever shown it.
An identity is something thatwe construct for ourselves,
that it's how we view ourselves.
Personality is how other people see us.
(00:24):
Identity is how we view ourselves.
How do you wanna livethe rest of your life?
What are your values gonna be?
What are your strengths?
I. What are your character traits?
What are your belief systems aboutyourself and the world around you?
We start to see the beneficial results ofacting and thinking and feeling that way.
And because it's in alignment with whowe truly want to be inside, it doesn't
(00:47):
have any mental friction attachedto it 'cause we're finally being
the person that we're meant to be.
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is a brain scienceeducator and coach who helps growth
oriented professionals level up theirbrain performance through education and
(01:10):
insights and cutting edge brain science.
So excited to have 'em on today.
George Haymaker.
How you doing today?
Great, Chris.
Great to be on and hello everyone.
We always like to ask our entrepreneurs,tell us about your journey.
What were you doing before thatkind of led you into this journey
of education and brain science?
Oh boy.
You have a minute?
(01:31):
Just a couple.
Yeah.
We got time.
All right.
Well, it's a bit of a story.
I didn't graduate from collegethinking I would go into brain science.
It happened through thecircuitous route of life.
I was an entrepreneur for many yearsand I decided at the age of 30 that I
just didn't like to work for people.
I decided that autonomy was oneof my most important psychological
(01:53):
needs and I wanted to serve that.
I went to work starting,founding, building, leading.
I think it's been five or sixdifferent businesses now over the
next three and a half decades.
All different types of businessesin telecom and manufacturing
and metals, distribution andrestaurants and ice cream brands.
A variety of differentindustries and types of
(02:17):
services and products and businesses.
That's been pretty varied but alongthe way I was struggling mentally.
I grew up in an environment thatwas privileged in many ways and yet
unsettling in others psychologically.
My parents were successful and weprobably moved 35 times in my life,
I was always in and out of new anddifferent schools, having to say
(02:38):
goodbye to friends, meet new friends.
I was heavily disciplined as a kid.
I would get disciplined physicallyand that only made my psychology a
little more challenging and unsettled.
There was some other types of abusethat happened at a younger age.
So I was uncomfortable in my ownskin, struggling for self-esteem.
I had self-doubt.
(02:59):
I was highly emotionallyreactive, tons of anxiety.
I also had a lot ofaddiction in my family.
My entire mom's side ofmy family were addicts.
So I had that in my genes andit got expressed through the
stress I went through as a child.
And when I got to college, I founddrugs and alcohol and find that as the
solution for all of my mental discomfort.
(03:22):
I used that as a solution for much of myadult life as I was struggling mentally
even though I was highly functioningand performing well in business.
I was struggling underneaththe cover, so to speak.
And I would binge and use drugsand alcohol in various degrees
over the years while I was
working these entrepreneurialventures and use that as a solution
(03:42):
to cope with mental discomfort.
The problem is that addiction only headsone direction and it heads no place good.
Finally I became addictedto drugs and alcohol.
I had no more control over whetherI was going to use them or not.
I needed to use them.
It was part of my addictivepattern and it got really bad.
And in my early fifties, I was taking 50pain pills a day and drinking two bottles
(04:06):
of vodka and it just got super ugly.
My wife had left me, my dogs had left me.
You're in trouble whenyour dogs leave you.
And I found myself in rehab andstarted a process of hitting hard
bottom, lots of consequences hadbuilt up and at that point it's either
die or try to figure out a new way.
(04:28):
And that's what I was leftwith this need and desire.
I summoned the wherewithal, the innerstrength to try something new and
different because clearly everything Ihad tried to that point was not working.
It had led me to a hard bottom.
So I entered 12 step program butI also became very curious about
why my brain had become addicted.
(04:52):
Why I was so uncomfortable in my mind.
And I just wanted to know the whys,wheres and how and all of that 'cause
I'm a curious kind of individual andit helps me to understand one thing
for somebody to tell me what to do.
It's another thing for me tounderstand it and actually take
ownership and be empowered by it.
And that's what led me downthis journey of self-discovery
(05:15):
and research and education.
I read a bunch of books on psychologyand spirituality and it took me to
the brain neuroscience because allof this is formulated in the brain.
It turns out as I was learningthat the brain is really magical.
It can create patterns butit also can create new ones.
(05:36):
So we're not stuck with who we are.
The brain has what's calledneuroplasticity, which its ability
to change, adapt and evolve.
It can modify itself based onsomething different that we want to be.
Use this information to transformmyself and rewire my own brain and the
results were so meaningful to me and sotransformative that when I was looking
(06:01):
for the next thing to do a few years ago,I said, why would I keep this to myself?
It's been the most important,impactful thing of my life.
I'll bet you other people aregoing through similar things,
whether their addicts or not,they could still be struggling.
Why don't I take all this and see ifother people might find it valuable?
That's when I went and took a bunch ofgraduate level coursework in neuroscience.
(06:23):
I got certified in coaching and now whatI do is take people inside their own
brains to understand how they work andunderstand how influential they can be in
their own mental brain performance, theirown mental outcomes and how they are today
does not have to be how they are forever.
I appreciate you sharing that journeywith us because it's not comfortable
(06:45):
for us to share something that justmakes us so vulnerable but it really
shares both what other people arestruggling with and what they can
overcome simply by empowering themselvesand just reworking their brains here.
There are people that I even think of inmy mind that could benefit from something
like this, whether myself 'cause weall have struggles focusing either it's
brain fog or we're just lack confidenceand so many people struggle with this.
(07:08):
So the fact that you're working outthere to improve it, we appreciate that.
Tell me more about the processand how does the brain science
work that allowed you to overcomeeverything that you've done?
How can it help others?
The first thing tounderstand is the brain.
How it is today?
Because of all the thoughts,feelings and emotions and experiences
(07:30):
that we've ever had in our life.
It's really just a filing cabinet ora hard drive of all of our experiences
that we've ever had and the morethat we practice those experiences or
reengage in them or reiterate them,the stronger those patterns become.
It's almost like you could save adocument once in your hard drive.
(07:54):
Then if that document kept reappearingover and over again and you kept saving
it because you kept engaging in it, let'scall it an unhelpful pattern, whether
it's lack of confidence or multitaskingor procrastination, these are all
patterns that your brain practices andthe more times it practices them, the
(08:16):
stronger and more ingrained that they get.
That's why these things developand they keep reappearing and
we keep reengaging in them.
It is because the brain has saved themand when you encounter new situations, the
brain keeps bringing those forward to youas an option for you to reengage in again.
(08:37):
They're called predictions.
The brain is predicting how itthinks you're going to think,
feel or behave in these moments.
And because these are the memoriesthat you've saved, they're the ones
that the brain keeps bringing forward.
That's why we get stuck or strugglewith the same things over and over
again is because of that dynamic.
So what we have to do then is a processof analyzing those patterns, understanding
(09:05):
how they developed, when they developedand usually these things trace back
to a lot of times our childhood whenwe're forming our brains and we analyze
what the root causes of them are.
So why did they develop and whydo they keep perpetuating today?
Then just by virtue of having thatunderstanding of them, it almost
(09:28):
allows you to separate from themand look at them objectively.
In other words, a lot of timeswe get overwhelmed by our minds
because we let the minds rule uswhen the brain is a recording of
everything we've ever shown it.
And we deconstruct these patterns, lookat them objectively and then we try to
loosen the grip that they have on us.
(09:50):
We look at evidence as the factthat they maybe started years ago,
why aren't they helpful anymore?
And what are they costing us todayto continue to reengage in them?
If a friend of yours wasgoing through similar things.
What would you tell themabout these patterns?
So what we try to do is look atthem, all the costs associated with
(10:12):
them, why they're not true anymoreand how we might coach somebody
else who's a friend of ours.
If they had these patterns,what would we tell them to do?
This begins to loosen the grip thatthese patterns have on us and open
windows for the brain to consider newpossibilities and new ways of being.
And then what we do is weconstruct new patterns that
(10:32):
align with a preferred identity.
An identity is something thatwe construct for ourselves,
that it's how we view ourselves.
Personality is how other people see us.
Identity is how we view ourselves.
So when we struggle with confidenceor struggle with these other
things that are holding us back.
These become part of our identity,but they're not part of our
(10:54):
preferred identity, the one thatwe want to have for ourselves.
We basically draw up and construct andthis is part of the work I do with people.
What is your preferred identity?
How do you wanna livethe rest of your life?
What are your values gonna be?
What are your strengths?
What are your character traits?
What are your belief systems aboutyourself and the world around you?
(11:15):
How do you want to think, feel and act?
And we basically create this character.
It's very much like an actor gettinga new script from a director saying,
here's your character for this movie.
And you have to go rehearse and learnthat character and learn everything
about them, how they think, howthey feel, how they act, so that you
can actually become that character.
(11:36):
So what we do is, we design this newpreferred individual with a new identity
and then we actually start to rehearsethat person, then as we experience
that person, we are experiencing thereward that comes from being more
in alignment with this person andall of a sudden our mental friction
starts to go down because we're actingconfidently even though we might be
(12:01):
going through the motionsfor a little while.
We start to see the beneficial results ofacting and thinking and feeling that way.
And because it's in alignment with whowe truly want to be inside, it doesn't
have any mental friction attachedto it 'cause we're finally being
the person that we're meant to be.
And that all goes away and we startto feel better about ourselves.
(12:21):
When we start to feel betterabout ourselves, the brain
gets rewarded by that.
We get these goosebumps.
We get these surges of neurotransmitters.
They're neurochemicals thatare feel good chemicals.
Things like dopamine,serotonin, endorphins, oxytocin.
Whenever we feel good aboutanything, these are the chemicals
that are surging through us.
(12:43):
And this process is lots of repetitionand lots of reward and as we experience
our old self gets triggered, we catch it.
We look at it objectively and we don'tengage in it because every time we engage
in an old pattern, it reinforces thatwe wanna stay on this side of the fence.
(13:04):
Keep reinforcing our new patterns, our newidentity, this new character of ourselves.
And it's a process.
It takes time, it takes diligence,commitment and motivation and willpower
at the beginning, but it gets easierand easier as the brain begins to
understand that it's safe, that it'srewarding and that it's actually more
beneficial than the old way of being.
(13:27):
Wow.
All of this is so fascinating to me.
Just trying to understand howthe brain works and the fact
that it can accomplish so much.
It can be our best friend orour worst enemy in a sense.
And I've always been curiousabout what do we have as instinct
versus a learned behavior.
It almost seems like our instincts arethe learned behavior of whether our
past or the generations in the past.
(13:47):
So it's fascinating to understand that wecould even rewire the way that we think.
Those options could be differentoptions if we allowed ourselves to
think about what is a bad optionto us and what could be good.
And then start practicing that learnedbehavior so that way we're becoming
the person that we want to be andnot that old person that we were.
Exactly.
It's important to rememberthat the brain is a follower,
(14:10):
it's a record keeping device.
These thoughts and emotions andpatterns and behaviors that emerge
into our our minds from our brains.
They're simply regurgitation ofwhat we've practiced in the past.
So when we look at that, it'slike, okay, it's not the truth.
We don't have to believe it or we don'thave to engage in it and repetition it
(14:34):
again, it's just simply presented to usby the brain as a prediction for how we
should think, feel and behave in thismoment, because that's all it knows,
that's how we've trained it in the past.
If you had a dog and you trainedit to bark and barking is no longer
helpful because it's driving you nuts.
(14:55):
Then you can train your dog to notbark by training it and treating it,
giving it reward when it doesn't bark.
Then it will begin to reorient itsbehavior around what is gonna give
it reward or the treat in the future.
It's very similar.
The brain is more than willingto change, adapt and evolve.
And what I mean by that?
Neurologically and physiologically isthat the brain is made up of 85 billion
(15:19):
neurons, which are the brain cells, andthey string together in patterns across
a string could go from one part of thebrain to another part of the brain.
All the different aspects of yourbrain that are involved in a single
function are strung together.
These neurons are strung togetherand the more times we engage in that
(15:39):
pattern, they light up every time weengage in it and it lights up through
electrical and chemical signaling.
And if you had a MRI, you wouldactually see that pathway, which
is a string of neurons lightup like a Christmas tree light.
If that pattern is not helpful?
(15:59):
We cannot light up that pattern anymore.
If a pattern appear in our minds fromour brain, because it's experienced
it before and it's bringing it toour mind as an option for us to
consider, we can't engage in it.
Otherwise, we will put more electricaland chemical signaling through it.
Putting water and fertilizer on a plant.
(16:20):
So when you put water andfertilizer on a plant, guess what?
The plant gets bigger andstronger and we don't want that.
That's why we stop engaging inthese patterns that are unhelpful
because we don't wanna make themany stronger and any more ingrained.
We've already done enough of that.
When we construct new and differentpatterns that represent who we
really want to be, that's whatwe have to water and fertilize.
(16:41):
By virtue of that, these neuronsthat have formed these patterns
that are unhelpful, begin to weaken.
They're not getting any moreelectrical or chemical signaling,
no more fertilizer, they don'tthink that they're useful anymore.
The brain begins to look at thesebecause they haven't fired or
wired together in so long becausewe're not engaging in that anymore.
(17:05):
The connection between theseneurons begins to break down.
And it begins to weaken.
And these neurons can actually breakapart from the pathway and drift
around and they'll form a new pathway.
They're now open to forming a new pattern.
Then when we enact and create new patternsthat are more helpful, that represent
(17:26):
this new person that we want to be, theseneurons will then break apart from the
old pattern and move and form a new one.
So that's what actually happensin these neurons, and that's why
our brains are changing every daybased on the new experiences that we
experience and the new memories thatwe have and all of that or the new
habits that we're trying to create.
These neurons are actuallymoving and shifting around.
(17:47):
So think of your brainas like this roadmap.
For Rand McNally, you look at a roadmapof the United States with all the roads
and rivers and bridges and everything.
Everybody's brain looks different becausewe've all had different experiences.
Our neurons are all mapped differently.
But you can actually shift that maparound and make it look different
if you start engaging in new anddifferent activities and practices that
(18:10):
represent a different way of being.
Wow.
I'm gonna have more brain relatedquestions here in a moment,
but I wanted to ask what theprocess is working with you.
What does it take for someone to eitherget started or sign up with you and
tell me what that process is like?
I'm on a lot of socialmedia, as you might imagine.
LinkedIn is a main one.
(18:30):
My name is George Haymaker, andit's spelled like it sounds.
You'll find me on LinkedIn.
You'll find me on Facebook.
Do a lot of short videoinstructional things on YouTube.
I do a podcast.
Train your brain, master your mind.
I have a website, george haymaker.com.
And actually there's a link for freediscovery call where we can chat and
(18:51):
talk about what's going on with you andsee if we're a fit to work together.
But I'm telling you, this brain sciencestuff is real and it works for everyone.
Everybody's brain is capable.
And if you've ever heard that changeisn't possible or a tiger doesn't change
a stripes it's not because they can't.
It's because they won't or they haven'ttried or they don't understand how.
(19:16):
It's so fascinating.
And we'll have those links available downin the show notes and the description
so everyone can get con connected here.
I wanted to ask about a brainscience question as it relates to
positivity, hope and inspiration.
There was a study done where they hadplaced rats into water and without
any intervention, the rats lastedmaybe maybe 10 minutes in the water.
(19:37):
But if you lifted them upat any time and saved them?
That had retrained them and
the next time that they went intothe water, they stayed within
the water afloat for 60 hours.
So there was that inspiration, thathope and positivity, that somehow
there's light at the end of the tunnel.
I might be saved.
Is there anything that we can learnfrom that study that applies to how the
(19:58):
way that our brains work when it comesto positivity, inspiration and hope?
Yeah.
Well the first thing is, the brain'snumber one job is to keep us safe
and alive and manage resources, toconserve resources in the interest
of keeping us safe and alive.
(20:19):
The brain doesn't care if you geta bigger car or a bigger house,
a nicer car, have nicer clothes.
All it cares about is,can I keep you safe?
Can I keep you in survival so thatyou can have babies and continue
on with the species and that wiringgoes back few hundred thousand
years, the evolution of humans.
(20:41):
To your example, if those micewould've been under big time threat.
Their lives would've been threatened.
When you show them how to survive, thatthere is a way to survive and be safe.
It's gonna learn.
There's nothing more importantto the brain than that.
So the brain will immediatelystore that information.
(21:04):
Ways of surviving situations that arethreatening, that it's learned about.
Like at the very top of the list.
nothing is more salient to thebrain than avoiding threats and
keeping us safe and in survival.
And the other component of that is,once something is learned, it does store
(21:25):
in memory and is there for retrievalwhen circumstances are presented to it.
Your concepts around hope and inspiration.
The more times that we remember,the brain is highly trainable.
But when you practice openinspiration, you develop neural
pathways around that patterns versuspracticing dread and self-defeat.
(21:52):
It'll learn those pathways good and bad.
Depending on what you practice.
So really important to rememberthat what you train, what you engage
in, what you think, feel, and act.
It gets recorded in this harddrive of ours called the brain.
(22:12):
And when you hit these moments that wecall upon either hope or inspiration
or dread self and self-defeat.
Whatever you've practiced inthose situations will be what the
brain pulls forward and presentsto you as the best solution.
(22:33):
And so that's why positive thinkingand all the things that are helpful to
you are really important to practiceso that your brain will go get those
previous concepts and bring them forwardin moments that you really need them.
I love that.
And of speaking of building off ofthat and the learned behaviors towards
(22:53):
positive or negative, do you feel likeour social circle, our friends and our
family have a direct impact on some ofour behaviors and learned behaviors?
Yeah, very much so.
One of the things that are hardwiredinto our brain and one of the six
core psychological needs that we allhave as human beings is togetherness.
(23:14):
We are social creatures.
And we're meant to live in tribes.
And the reason for that is becauseback in the old days, when we were
cavemen and there were threats allaround us in the form of dinosaurs ,we
learned that if we banded together andoperated in tribes, we stand at a better
(23:38):
chance of surviving than if we didn't.
The dinosaurs would pick us off ifwe were by by ourselves or alone.
And that's also why we're givenneurochemicals, why our brain fires feel
good, chemicals when we're in love whenwe're mating, when we have great friends.
(23:58):
That's why it feels good isbecause we're meant to have those
associations because it helps ussurvive and it's how we're wired.
So clearly then in thoserelationships, we are gonna be
affected by those interactions.
But the other thing I also wannasay about that is then if we
(24:19):
understand how the brain works,then we're not only understanding
how our brain works, but we'reunderstanding how other people's works.
It helps us avoid conflict because ifsomebody is acting in a certain way,
by virtue of our understanding of thebrain, be able to then look at that
situation differently than just feelingconfronted or attacked by it, we might
(24:44):
feel empathy for that individual, forthat brain, and say, what is this person?
This is what they may be going through.
Then over time you stop interactingwith people and you start
interacting with their brains.
Like brain to brain.
Brain knowledge is just soimportant for every aspect of life
because again, it's not fixed.
(25:05):
It is so adaptable and broad and variedin terms of its outcomes that we have the
ability to cultivate and make differencesin it the same way we do in our body.
Here's a great analogy.
We all know the difference of what beingin the best shape of our life ever felt
like and we know what it felt like tobe in the worst shape of our lives.
(25:27):
And there's a. Huge range of outcomesin between those two extremes.
That's the same range of outcomesthat are available in our brains.
So the question becomes, wherein that range are we right now
with our brain performance?
Are we in the best shape we've ever been?
Are we in the worst shape and dowe even know how to move it from
(25:52):
where we are to the best shape?
And that's what I help people do, helpthem with the information, the knowledge
and the tools to begin to improve andaffect their brain performance and
mental outcomes by themselves becausethey're now aware of how all this works.
I love that.
Now, are there any commonmisconceptions within the field
(26:14):
of neuroscience, brain science?
I guess either commonly held beliefs thatwere shattered later or we discovered
new information that just led us downa different path about brain science?
Well I guess the thing that comes tomind is there's all different types
of coaching and therapy out there.
Different approaches you can find.
(26:36):
Gurus everywhere.
What I will tell you is that ifwhoever you're working with whatever
doctrine you follow, advice you get,individual you work with, if what
they're doing does not cause thoseneurons to shift into a new and different
(26:58):
pattern, at least the ones that areunhelpful that you're trying to change.
What if the methodologies that they'reusing and the tools they're giving you are
not causing that change, then it's likeputting a bandaid on something because
sure enough, if the brain doesn't havea new record concept or memory in which
(27:24):
to bring forward into your mind thatit's gonna keep bringing the old ones.
If you don't practice and repeat anddevelop new habits, all of which involve
reward and emotional engagement insomething new and different and do it long
enough to where the brain's go to, thenyou are simply not going to transform and
(27:50):
change in a long lasting, sustainable way.
That is for sure that is neuroscience.
That's the thing I would ask everybodyto question is, what I'm doing?
Is it going to cause long lastingsustainable change by disengaging
old unhelpful patterns and causingnew patterns to neurologically
(28:13):
form developing new neural pathwayswhere I can then count on this
recurring and being presented to mymind in a in place of the old patterns.
That's really the acid test of whether ornot you know what you're doing is working.
Everyone has to reach out to GeorgeHaymaker, the expert on neuroscience
(28:35):
and the educator and coach.
Wanted to ask George one morequestion before we sign off here.
What are you excited for most in 2025?
Do you have any new products, newthings that you're launching, you're
kind of building or working towards?
Or are you maintaining everythingthat you've been working on already?
Thanks for asking.
I'm actually starting a new groupcoaching program called The Brain Club
(28:56):
and it's where it's a subscription based,a modest amount to join this club and
it's on a platform that allows us toall engage together and collaborate.
It's made up of growth-mindedprofessionals but anyone that's
interested in their brains and how theycould take control of this marvelous
capability that we have and improve it.
(29:19):
Within that club we'll do weekly Zoomcalls, which will be full of education
and Q&A and applying it to our lives.
There will be weekly articles sent out.
Newsletters.
Membership modules, training modules,very similar to going to the gym.
I actually call this the brain club,a gym membership for your brain.
(29:39):
We all know what gym memberships are forour bodies but this is a gym membership
for your brain, it trains you to beable to learn more about how your brain
works and then take control of it thesame way you've done with your bodies.
It gives you that same levelof control and empowerment over
your brain as you have your body.
That's gonna be coming out shortly.
(29:59):
And I think I'll share the link at howto become involved in with you Chris
and you can share it with the audience.
That is wonderful.
Looking forward to it.
Make sure you get connected.
We'll have links availabledown on the show notes and
description here for everyone.
Thank you George for coming on theshow and sharing all this fascinating
information about how our brain works,how we can retrain it and just the future
potential that we could be capable ofif we simply understand how it works
(30:21):
and how we can make those changes.
You bet, Chris, my pleasure.
Thanks for having me.
Absolutely.
Thank you.
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