February 22, 2024 • 20 mins
In advance of the second Relational Cadre session, Amy and Kevin dive into another topic in the Playful Connections theme for 2024 ... Imagining Together.
When we imagine together, we have to hold two things in our heads at once: Play is purposeless, and the purpose of play is to connect. Play can use accessible activities like improv, storytelling, and role playing to help us link our imaginations with the possibility for co-creating connection. We can hold a space together where we can be vulnerable with each other and seek mutuality as we try new things, changing each other through our play.
Fostering collaboration and empathy is a team activity, and curiosity is essential. No previous experience or skills are required to imagine; just a willingness to play with someone.
Some resources on this topic include:
Laughing your way to better parenting through playful parenting (article) http://raisingnerd.com/2018/03/01/playful-parenting/ (1130 words) David Alger's Rules of Improv (article) https://www.pantheater.com/rules-of-improv.html (1485 words) Some Spolin games used in performance (article) https://spolin.com/?page_id=10 (800 words)
Cadre is a podcast that explores concepts from Relational-Cultural Theory (RCT), a psychological theory that started with Jean Baker Miller, and grew through collaboration and connection in places like the Stone Center at Wellesley College. RCT is built on the idea that people grow through and towards relationships, and that those relationships shape and are shaped by the cultures we co-create. Culture often creates challenges to connection through inequity and hierarchies.
Each year, the Bloomington Center for Connection selects a guiding theme for monthly small-group discussions of RCT concepts.
Amy Makice is the founder of Bloomington Center for Connection and a licensed psychotherapist based in Bloomington, Indiana. Amy offers individual therapy and parent support for people in the Bloomington area, workshops for parents and caregivers, and training on Relational Cultural theory.
Kevin Makice is a user experience designer and enthusiastic gamer who has been steeping in RCT for three decades.
Theme music created by Vlad Gluschenko ("Positive Thinking" and "Serpantine") and downloaded from Soundcloud through Creative Commons Attribution 3.0.
https://soundcloud.com/vgl9/positive-thinking https://soundcloud.com/vgl9/serpantine https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:17):
Welcome back to Cadre. This is our third episode, and we're going to be talking
about imagining together.
This is our prompt for the next Cadre session, which is going to be on Sunday,
February 25th at 1 Eastern.
We'll have a Zoom link for those that registered and want that.
Theme for the entire year is playful connections, and this is all leading up
(00:42):
to our our September 5th through 8th summit, where we're going to be talking about that in depth.
So a lot of this is sort of our own experimentation and exploration of play
along these topics, just so we can be thinking about it well in advance of that event.
Play is a creative process of transformative connection,
(01:03):
and it also includes engaging in activities out of curiosity and helping us
develop clarity about ourselves and others as we build stronger and more authentic relationships.
It's also a key component of growth, resiliency, joy.
And so every time I hear our definition of play, I have some concerns,
(01:25):
even though we worked really hard on that definition and I mostly stand by it.
I worry that it does the exact thing that play is there to counter,
which is it creates pressure to do a thing.
So it's like we must be creative and it has to be transformative and then authentic
(01:45):
connection will naturally happen.
And it's the same as if you go into a conversation thinking,
I'm going to do deep listening and then this person is going to change their mind. Like play is joy.
Because part of the part of the RCT history that's baked into it is this idea of in progress work.
(02:06):
So we have a definition that we were hoping to anchor us through,
you know, this entire year.
And it's already time to maybe consider changing it a bit. So how would you
change our definition to incorporate that?
Is it? So the first sentence is, play is a creative process of transformative connection.
You just want a parenthetical that says no pressure?
(02:29):
Yes. Yes. Just put no pressure at the end or something because that's sort of playful.
But also because it's a paradox because I want to say play is purposeless.
And the purpose of play is to connect and grow. throw, you know,
there are elements of learning and surprise in there that you don't know are coming.
(02:51):
But if we had started off with that person and been like, no,
in all the games, you must be creative and transformative and curious,
then that kid's going to be like, hey, can I have my phone back?
In design, we have this idea of a design statement, Which is just meant to be sort of a touchstone.
(03:14):
So if you drift too far from the design, you can always come back and ask the
question, am I doing this?
It's a paradox there too. We wanted to be clear enough to guide us,
but we also wanted to challenge our thoughts as we're going through.
Both those things are true, but they seem like they're at odds.
Why am I doing it? But also, don't worry about why I'm doing it. Right.
(03:37):
At least on my own trajectory, I was much worse about this in my 20s.
I did a little internship at the Children's Museum, and I put in big air quotes,
play that I came up with was a way for children to better remember the alphabet, which is not play.
And I can think of when our oldest was two, and I was doing like this thing
(04:01):
for the city to help parents connect with their kids.
I was better then. I was a little more loose, but I still had like a craft that
matched the story. And I got probably a little bent out of shape when kids didn't
do the craft. So and they were two.
So. That's all right. We can we can come back to that statement and not just
(04:24):
today. It's probably going to be a theme.
Yes. But like all of our podcasts going forward, this will just be a way that
we can keep growing with this.
Our topic for the next one is imagining together. others, engaging in a shared
creative process that might include things like improv and storytelling,
but there's probably other things as well.
(04:45):
And it also is about exploring how all that will help us imagine relational
possibilities and process feelings that arise in that safe space that might
not arise when the stakes are higher.
Play provides opportunities to
connect without necessarily having like the entire friendship on the line.
(05:09):
Although in younger kids, sometimes you do hear that, but they come back around in like 20 minutes.
All these things we're saying about play are true.
Also, what we're saying right now about play being a variety of things with
not a real purpose, but also the purpose is to connect.
(05:29):
And also our society doesn't really value connection, so I'm concerned about
saying that's not a real purpose.
All of these things together are why play informed by RCT is really important.
RCT looks at how our culture gets in the way of connection, and play finds ways
(05:51):
around cultural barriers to connection.
RCT emphasizes authenticity that cares about what's happening around it,
and play that is authentic makes room for everybody who's playing.
So when we're imagining together, you know, we talked last time about world
(06:12):
building and creating this space where everybody can see themselves in there.
And this is in some ways about using that space that you've created for yourselves.
One of the things we talk about is improv.
And there are rules of improv that are things like yes and or don't block,
which is helping the story build on top of each other.
(06:35):
But one of the other ones is about looking for relationships,
establishing location relationships. In any story, what makes the story interesting is that people change.
If your story doesn't involve change of yourself or others, if you're not giving
people what they need to be able to make those changes and do those choices,
(06:56):
then it's not going to be a very interesting story.
So part of what allows it to sustain is being really intentional and aware of
what the other person needs.
Needs. And what you're talking about in improv is that you want agency,
like you want people to be able to make choices on the stage.
You want people to have the flexibility to do what comes to them because it
(07:19):
might be really funny or it might move the story in a very interesting way.
You don't want them to be entirely independent because then you're watching
like five different improvs and and it's not any fun, and it's just like running
a five-kid, three-year-old playgroup.
Part of what makes improv fun or play at any level that is improvisational is
(07:43):
that you don't know what's going to happen and that you are borrowing this power
that you all share for a little while and then giving it to somebody else to
see what happened. It's like playing catch with a ball or something.
At some point, it's going to come back and you want to be ready for it,
but you don't have to hand the ball to everybody every single time.
It's a group effort to do.
(08:04):
There's a series of games that are like acting. I mean, it's an acting theater background.
So like the Miser technique, you sit across from somebody or you're in a group
and you're basically there's one phrase and you're just saying it again and
again, but you're saying it in different ways.
And the reason for that is that the words become meaningless and it's all about
the things that you're giving and receiving and how you're emoting in the time.
(08:27):
So it's a good exercise to try to do connection. But one of the games that was
in this list was a gibberish interpreter.
So you have three people and somebody is talking gibberish.
And then there's a translator that has to understand what that gibberish is
and turn around and speak gibberish to another person who's speaking a different
(08:49):
kind of gibberish. And then that person responds and comes back.
And so again, the words don't mean anything, but it's about that connection
and the information that you're passing back and forth through this sort of chain.
And those kinds of exercises, at least in the context of theater,
are about trying to find ways to put the emotions and the communication that
(09:13):
isn't about the words into the words that you're saying ultimately on the stage.
At Geek Camp, we opened every morning with improv games.
And there would always be people who were like, oh, I can't do that. I'm not funny.
Or they wouldn't pay any attention until it was their turn. And then their turn
would be sort of not awesome.
(09:33):
And I was thinking before this, like, how do you make this authentic and not performative?
From time to time, we've done RCT trainings for communities of like-minded people
who are concerned about something and who want to learn how to communicate better,
how to connect better across difference.
And I do think RCT is good for that.
(09:55):
And you can't use RCT in order to persuade someone.
That's not the purpose. The purpose is to connect. And if you're doing it to
try to persuade someone, then you are not curious. You are not connecting.
The paradox is, if you do it without an agenda and without trying to persuade
someone, a lot of times you find your common ground, and in that common ground,
(10:20):
there's room for movement.
And I think that's the same when you're trying to do some imagining together,
is you might think, oh, I'm going to do this imagining together to show that I am funny,
or I'm going to do this imagining together to help everyone get to a heartfelt
understanding of exclusion, or like whatever your goal is,
(10:42):
if you can just enter into whatever kind of game being curious,
and that curiosity can include, I'm curious as to whether or not I can even
do stuff in this game, but I'm going to be present.
You're just curious about what would happen if I tried this?
Or how are people going to react to that?
(11:04):
Instead of constantly thinking about like, oh, what am I I going to say?
It's almost my turn. I'm really nervous.
Which, to be fair, is exactly what I do when I'm doing improv.
You want to be somebody who contributes. You want to be somebody who says a
thing that's going to move people to laugh or cry or move the story along and
be thought of as a good contributor to the group. Yeah, to really like me.
(11:29):
What facilitates that, and I guess this is sort of a paradoxy kind of thing too, is...
Have more opportunities to do that if it's about the relationship.
What's coming to mind right now is in the last season of Picard,
Data is the, I want to be human, what's it like to be human character.
At this critical point, there is a battle in his own mind between his predictable,
(11:55):
everyone loves Data self,
and this sort of much more independent and self-serving
version of him called lore that is fighting
for for battle calculated calculated data had
to basically be as vulnerable as possible
in that situation to give lore
the space to change to give all of it yeah yeah you can be involved in really
(12:20):
serious work and you can need humor and play as a way to get through that really
serious work you know i think we're learning more and more about like like joy
being an essential element of resistance.
The tabletop role-playing games, we've talked about some that are about the
world is ending, death is imminent, what are we doing?
(12:45):
It's imaginary, and it's a game, it's play.
It's also like a really deep deep way of connecting with people and requires
you to face very scary things that it's possible you could face with a lot of preparation,
a lot of like mental, okay, this is what's coming, a lot of getting in touch
(13:09):
with your body and noticing what happens when you know it's coming.
Because it's play, you can explore death even in a way that isn't as high stakes
as when you're You're sitting with someone who's literally in hospice.
Yeah, the game that I always think of as we start talking about that is it's
(13:30):
just a little card game called My Guess This Is It.
It's something that can be incorporated into larger games, but its purpose is
for two people who have some history that you have to develop together.
You know, you can set it in fantasy times, like two characters in D&D,
but you could also set it in, you know, your favorite show or just something
(13:52):
out of your imagination.
But they have a relationship and there's this deck of cards that have topics
and feelings and how they come out and how you play them will determine what
your next line is about. out.
It's designed in a way that you're not going to get through all the cards,
but this is the last time you're seeing this person.
(14:14):
That's the way it's played. And it could be because the other person is about to die.
It could be that you're parting, you know, never to unlikely to see each other again.
You're trying to get all the things out, but you can't. At the end of it,
you take your cards, the things left unsaid, and you go into separate rooms
and you sort of contemplate that and then come back and debrief.
(14:34):
It's powerful because you don't know what's going to happen.
And you have sort of this, it's not really timed, but there's a countdown of these cards as well.
So you know when you're getting closer to the end, but there's only so far you can think ahead to that.
And you really just sort of have to play in the moment, going to work or going
(14:54):
to church, encountering somebody else in your life and having all this history.
You don't know what they're going to say to you.
You don't know if they've got big news or small news or if they're angry that
day or if it's going to erupt.
That kind of listening and being in the moment and being uncertain,
that's just a part of everything we do. Yeah.
(15:16):
Are there any RCT concepts that this conversation is saying,
this is one we should focus on?
I would say mutuality, being able to both move and be moved by the other person.
There are things that I am comfortable doing with people with whom I have a
really close relationship in games that if I were doing improv and I knew them
(15:39):
really well, I might not do.
Because I might be worried that it's going to press a button.
If I'm playing with people I don't know, then I might be better able to explore that. I don't know.
So the other thing that I think of in this conversation is a supported vulnerability.
The idea of being in a space and being able to make those mistakes that you're afraid of making.
(16:05):
Of allowing that play to go where it's going to go.
And working together to pull it back if it's in the wrong spot or work through
it, you know, with your improv, it might be less intimidating if you raise the
confidence in the space that you're going into.
Anyone can play like and anyone can imagine together.
We get stuck in doing it right. And I hear lots of parents who are like,
(16:28):
well, I don't I don't really play.
There's little easy skills that you can learn to make it so that you can play,
you know, Things like just saying, what happens next?
Instead of putting all this pressure on yourself to be like the perfect wicked
crow that comes into your kid's story that they've just directed you to be,
you can be like, what do I do next?
(16:50):
Even if you're not someone who thinks of themselves as playful,
I think we could access that little playful part of you.
A lot of times when we're playing with kids, we get really caught up in our
perspective on what the moment needs.
Needs maybe we think oh this child is
just really being violent and needs
(17:11):
to be shown that violence is not the answer and that
very well could be true i don't know but that's not what the relationship needs
that's you thinking what the child needs i mean sometimes it works to like explode
the moment like the child has just pretended to kill you and so you fall gently on top of the child.
(17:35):
And then the child's like no you don't fall there
and you're like i'm dead i can't do anything and
it's funny or it turns out this
is a larry cohen classic that it turns out that
the gun that they shot you with doesn't have bullets it has love bubbles and
now you can't stop following them around telling them how much you love them
and you wish they would shoot you just a little bit more with a love gun when
(17:59):
that kid is doing that they're looking for connection and power superpower and
to know that you can handle it.
If you respond with, that's bad, they don't know you can handle it.
And they don't feel empowered. They feel crappy. I'm not saying feel crappy about parenting.
I'm just saying try to look at what the relationship is asking for.
(18:21):
In physics, there's something called a black box, which is not what's in a plane.
But it's an experiment where you have objects in a box that you can't see. Like a cat?
Well, you're supposed to point light and then it reflects off of things.
So using that and deduction, you can figure out where stuff is.
But as a metaphor, it's this unknown.
And the way that you try to figure it out is by probing it with different things to see what happens.
(18:46):
In improv, doing the thing that's going to add something new to see what somebody else makes of it.
We are going to have a summit. Yes. And it's going to be playful.
And the summit is September 5th through 8th with the meaty parts happening in
the middle two days. It's in Bloomington, Indiana.
(19:07):
There will be stuff for experienced RCT people and also people who don't know
much about RCT and want to learn.
Maybe they get to hang out with some people who are really experienced with
play. And those play people get to hang out with people who know a lot about RCT.
I like the idea of lots of different people learning from each other and playing
(19:30):
with each other to do that learning.
I'm getting more and more excited about it. Excellent.
So we hope to see you all on the 25th with our next cadre session.
Otherwise, we will see you in about a week. Okie dokie.
Music.
(20:04):
Between Kevin McKees and Amy McKees LCSW took place on February 11th,
2024 in Bloomington, Indiana and was edited for this podcast by Kevin McKees.
Theme music lovingly sampled from Positive Thinking and Serpentine by Vlad Glushenko.
Follow Bloomington Center for Connection on Facebook and other socials.
Music.
Music.
(00:17):
Welcome back to Cadre. This is our third episode, and we're going to be talking
about imagining together.
This is our prompt for the next Cadre session, which is going to be on Sunday,
February 25th at 1 Eastern.
We'll have a Zoom link for those that registered and want that.
Theme for the entire year is playful connections, and this is all leading up
(00:42):
to our our September 5th through 8th summit, where we're going to be talking about that in depth.
So a lot of this is sort of our own experimentation and exploration of play
along these topics, just so we can be thinking about it well in advance of that event.
Play is a creative process of transformative connection,
(01:03):
and it also includes engaging in activities out of curiosity and helping us
develop clarity about ourselves and others as we build stronger and more authentic relationships.
It's also a key component of growth, resiliency, joy.
And so every time I hear our definition of play, I have some concerns,
(01:25):
even though we worked really hard on that definition and I mostly stand by it.
I worry that it does the exact thing that play is there to counter,
which is it creates pressure to do a thing.
So it's like we must be creative and it has to be transformative and then authentic
(01:45):
connection will naturally happen.
And it's the same as if you go into a conversation thinking,
I'm going to do deep listening and then this person is going to change their mind. Like play is joy.
Because part of the part of the RCT history that's baked into it is this idea of in progress work.
(02:06):
So we have a definition that we were hoping to anchor us through,
you know, this entire year.
And it's already time to maybe consider changing it a bit. So how would you
change our definition to incorporate that?
Is it? So the first sentence is, play is a creative process of transformative connection.
You just want a parenthetical that says no pressure?
(02:29):
Yes. Yes. Just put no pressure at the end or something because that's sort of playful.
But also because it's a paradox because I want to say play is purposeless.
And the purpose of play is to connect and grow. throw, you know,
there are elements of learning and surprise in there that you don't know are coming.
(02:51):
But if we had started off with that person and been like, no,
in all the games, you must be creative and transformative and curious,
then that kid's going to be like, hey, can I have my phone back?
In design, we have this idea of a design statement, Which is just meant to be sort of a touchstone.
(03:14):
So if you drift too far from the design, you can always come back and ask the
question, am I doing this?
It's a paradox there too. We wanted to be clear enough to guide us,
but we also wanted to challenge our thoughts as we're going through.
Both those things are true, but they seem like they're at odds.
Why am I doing it? But also, don't worry about why I'm doing it. Right.
(03:37):
At least on my own trajectory, I was much worse about this in my 20s.
I did a little internship at the Children's Museum, and I put in big air quotes,
play that I came up with was a way for children to better remember the alphabet, which is not play.
And I can think of when our oldest was two, and I was doing like this thing
(04:01):
for the city to help parents connect with their kids.
I was better then. I was a little more loose, but I still had like a craft that
matched the story. And I got probably a little bent out of shape when kids didn't
do the craft. So and they were two.
So. That's all right. We can we can come back to that statement and not just
(04:24):
today. It's probably going to be a theme.
Yes. But like all of our podcasts going forward, this will just be a way that
we can keep growing with this.
Our topic for the next one is imagining together. others, engaging in a shared
creative process that might include things like improv and storytelling,
but there's probably other things as well.
(04:45):
And it also is about exploring how all that will help us imagine relational
possibilities and process feelings that arise in that safe space that might
not arise when the stakes are higher.
Play provides opportunities to
connect without necessarily having like the entire friendship on the line.
(05:09):
Although in younger kids, sometimes you do hear that, but they come back around in like 20 minutes.
All these things we're saying about play are true.
Also, what we're saying right now about play being a variety of things with
not a real purpose, but also the purpose is to connect.
(05:29):
And also our society doesn't really value connection, so I'm concerned about
saying that's not a real purpose.
All of these things together are why play informed by RCT is really important.
RCT looks at how our culture gets in the way of connection, and play finds ways
(05:51):
around cultural barriers to connection.
RCT emphasizes authenticity that cares about what's happening around it,
and play that is authentic makes room for everybody who's playing.
So when we're imagining together, you know, we talked last time about world
(06:12):
building and creating this space where everybody can see themselves in there.
And this is in some ways about using that space that you've created for yourselves.
One of the things we talk about is improv.
And there are rules of improv that are things like yes and or don't block,
which is helping the story build on top of each other.
(06:35):
But one of the other ones is about looking for relationships,
establishing location relationships. In any story, what makes the story interesting is that people change.
If your story doesn't involve change of yourself or others, if you're not giving
people what they need to be able to make those changes and do those choices,
(06:56):
then it's not going to be a very interesting story.
So part of what allows it to sustain is being really intentional and aware of
what the other person needs.
Needs. And what you're talking about in improv is that you want agency,
like you want people to be able to make choices on the stage.
You want people to have the flexibility to do what comes to them because it
(07:19):
might be really funny or it might move the story in a very interesting way.
You don't want them to be entirely independent because then you're watching
like five different improvs and and it's not any fun, and it's just like running
a five-kid, three-year-old playgroup.
Part of what makes improv fun or play at any level that is improvisational is
(07:43):
that you don't know what's going to happen and that you are borrowing this power
that you all share for a little while and then giving it to somebody else to
see what happened. It's like playing catch with a ball or something.
At some point, it's going to come back and you want to be ready for it,
but you don't have to hand the ball to everybody every single time.
It's a group effort to do.
(08:04):
There's a series of games that are like acting. I mean, it's an acting theater background.
So like the Miser technique, you sit across from somebody or you're in a group
and you're basically there's one phrase and you're just saying it again and
again, but you're saying it in different ways.
And the reason for that is that the words become meaningless and it's all about
the things that you're giving and receiving and how you're emoting in the time.
(08:27):
So it's a good exercise to try to do connection. But one of the games that was
in this list was a gibberish interpreter.
So you have three people and somebody is talking gibberish.
And then there's a translator that has to understand what that gibberish is
and turn around and speak gibberish to another person who's speaking a different
(08:49):
kind of gibberish. And then that person responds and comes back.
And so again, the words don't mean anything, but it's about that connection
and the information that you're passing back and forth through this sort of chain.
And those kinds of exercises, at least in the context of theater,
are about trying to find ways to put the emotions and the communication that
(09:13):
isn't about the words into the words that you're saying ultimately on the stage.
At Geek Camp, we opened every morning with improv games.
And there would always be people who were like, oh, I can't do that. I'm not funny.
Or they wouldn't pay any attention until it was their turn. And then their turn
would be sort of not awesome.
(09:33):
And I was thinking before this, like, how do you make this authentic and not performative?
From time to time, we've done RCT trainings for communities of like-minded people
who are concerned about something and who want to learn how to communicate better,
how to connect better across difference.
And I do think RCT is good for that.
(09:55):
And you can't use RCT in order to persuade someone.
That's not the purpose. The purpose is to connect. And if you're doing it to
try to persuade someone, then you are not curious. You are not connecting.
The paradox is, if you do it without an agenda and without trying to persuade
someone, a lot of times you find your common ground, and in that common ground,
(10:20):
there's room for movement.
And I think that's the same when you're trying to do some imagining together,
is you might think, oh, I'm going to do this imagining together to show that I am funny,
or I'm going to do this imagining together to help everyone get to a heartfelt
understanding of exclusion, or like whatever your goal is,
(10:42):
if you can just enter into whatever kind of game being curious,
and that curiosity can include, I'm curious as to whether or not I can even
do stuff in this game, but I'm going to be present.
You're just curious about what would happen if I tried this?
Or how are people going to react to that?
(11:04):
Instead of constantly thinking about like, oh, what am I I going to say?
It's almost my turn. I'm really nervous.
Which, to be fair, is exactly what I do when I'm doing improv.
You want to be somebody who contributes. You want to be somebody who says a
thing that's going to move people to laugh or cry or move the story along and
be thought of as a good contributor to the group. Yeah, to really like me.
(11:29):
What facilitates that, and I guess this is sort of a paradoxy kind of thing too, is...
Have more opportunities to do that if it's about the relationship.
What's coming to mind right now is in the last season of Picard,
Data is the, I want to be human, what's it like to be human character.
At this critical point, there is a battle in his own mind between his predictable,
(11:55):
everyone loves Data self,
and this sort of much more independent and self-serving
version of him called lore that is fighting
for for battle calculated calculated data had
to basically be as vulnerable as possible
in that situation to give lore
the space to change to give all of it yeah yeah you can be involved in really
(12:20):
serious work and you can need humor and play as a way to get through that really
serious work you know i think we're learning more and more about like like joy
being an essential element of resistance.
The tabletop role-playing games, we've talked about some that are about the
world is ending, death is imminent, what are we doing?
(12:45):
It's imaginary, and it's a game, it's play.
It's also like a really deep deep way of connecting with people and requires
you to face very scary things that it's possible you could face with a lot of preparation,
a lot of like mental, okay, this is what's coming, a lot of getting in touch
(13:09):
with your body and noticing what happens when you know it's coming.
Because it's play, you can explore death even in a way that isn't as high stakes
as when you're You're sitting with someone who's literally in hospice.
Yeah, the game that I always think of as we start talking about that is it's
(13:30):
just a little card game called My Guess This Is It.
It's something that can be incorporated into larger games, but its purpose is
for two people who have some history that you have to develop together.
You know, you can set it in fantasy times, like two characters in D&D,
but you could also set it in, you know, your favorite show or just something
(13:52):
out of your imagination.
But they have a relationship and there's this deck of cards that have topics
and feelings and how they come out and how you play them will determine what
your next line is about. out.
It's designed in a way that you're not going to get through all the cards,
but this is the last time you're seeing this person.
(14:14):
That's the way it's played. And it could be because the other person is about to die.
It could be that you're parting, you know, never to unlikely to see each other again.
You're trying to get all the things out, but you can't. At the end of it,
you take your cards, the things left unsaid, and you go into separate rooms
and you sort of contemplate that and then come back and debrief.
(14:34):
It's powerful because you don't know what's going to happen.
And you have sort of this, it's not really timed, but there's a countdown of these cards as well.
So you know when you're getting closer to the end, but there's only so far you can think ahead to that.
And you really just sort of have to play in the moment, going to work or going
(14:54):
to church, encountering somebody else in your life and having all this history.
You don't know what they're going to say to you.
You don't know if they've got big news or small news or if they're angry that
day or if it's going to erupt.
That kind of listening and being in the moment and being uncertain,
that's just a part of everything we do. Yeah.
(15:16):
Are there any RCT concepts that this conversation is saying,
this is one we should focus on?
I would say mutuality, being able to both move and be moved by the other person.
There are things that I am comfortable doing with people with whom I have a
really close relationship in games that if I were doing improv and I knew them
(15:39):
really well, I might not do.
Because I might be worried that it's going to press a button.
If I'm playing with people I don't know, then I might be better able to explore that. I don't know.
So the other thing that I think of in this conversation is a supported vulnerability.
The idea of being in a space and being able to make those mistakes that you're afraid of making.
(16:05):
Of allowing that play to go where it's going to go.
And working together to pull it back if it's in the wrong spot or work through
it, you know, with your improv, it might be less intimidating if you raise the
confidence in the space that you're going into.
Anyone can play like and anyone can imagine together.
We get stuck in doing it right. And I hear lots of parents who are like,
(16:28):
well, I don't I don't really play.
There's little easy skills that you can learn to make it so that you can play,
you know, Things like just saying, what happens next?
Instead of putting all this pressure on yourself to be like the perfect wicked
crow that comes into your kid's story that they've just directed you to be,
you can be like, what do I do next?
(16:50):
Even if you're not someone who thinks of themselves as playful,
I think we could access that little playful part of you.
A lot of times when we're playing with kids, we get really caught up in our
perspective on what the moment needs.
Needs maybe we think oh this child is
just really being violent and needs
(17:11):
to be shown that violence is not the answer and that
very well could be true i don't know but that's not what the relationship needs
that's you thinking what the child needs i mean sometimes it works to like explode
the moment like the child has just pretended to kill you and so you fall gently on top of the child.
(17:35):
And then the child's like no you don't fall there
and you're like i'm dead i can't do anything and
it's funny or it turns out this
is a larry cohen classic that it turns out that
the gun that they shot you with doesn't have bullets it has love bubbles and
now you can't stop following them around telling them how much you love them
and you wish they would shoot you just a little bit more with a love gun when
(17:59):
that kid is doing that they're looking for connection and power superpower and
to know that you can handle it.
If you respond with, that's bad, they don't know you can handle it.
And they don't feel empowered. They feel crappy. I'm not saying feel crappy about parenting.
I'm just saying try to look at what the relationship is asking for.
(18:21):
In physics, there's something called a black box, which is not what's in a plane.
But it's an experiment where you have objects in a box that you can't see. Like a cat?
Well, you're supposed to point light and then it reflects off of things.
So using that and deduction, you can figure out where stuff is.
But as a metaphor, it's this unknown.
And the way that you try to figure it out is by probing it with different things to see what happens.
(18:46):
In improv, doing the thing that's going to add something new to see what somebody else makes of it.
We are going to have a summit. Yes. And it's going to be playful.
And the summit is September 5th through 8th with the meaty parts happening in
the middle two days. It's in Bloomington, Indiana.
(19:07):
There will be stuff for experienced RCT people and also people who don't know
much about RCT and want to learn.
Maybe they get to hang out with some people who are really experienced with
play. And those play people get to hang out with people who know a lot about RCT.
I like the idea of lots of different people learning from each other and playing
(19:30):
with each other to do that learning.
I'm getting more and more excited about it. Excellent.
So we hope to see you all on the 25th with our next cadre session.
Otherwise, we will see you in about a week. Okie dokie.
Music.
(20:04):
Between Kevin McKees and Amy McKees LCSW took place on February 11th,
2024 in Bloomington, Indiana and was edited for this podcast by Kevin McKees.
Theme music lovingly sampled from Positive Thinking and Serpentine by Vlad Glushenko.
Follow Bloomington Center for Connection on Facebook and other socials.
Music.
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