May 27, 2025 • 35 mins
How do people become leaders? What does it take? Is there a manual? Leadership is cited as one of the NACE Career Readiness Competencies and I understand why. Learning how to be a leader is a process that can take a while, and I want college students to start the process while they’re still on campus. There are many ways students can develop as leaders and I highlight a few in this episode.
One of my colleagues on campus joined me to discuss leadership and her perspective is really helpful. Dr. Christi Garst-Santos is the Director and Associate Professor of Spanish in the School of American and Global Studies. After my discussion with her a couple of questions pinged in my brain. What is your story? How are you going to tell your story? Continue listening to learn from Dr. Garst-Santos.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Career Connections. I'm your host, Kevin Folger. How do people become leaders?
What does it take? Is there a manual? Leadership is cited as one of the best career readiness competencies,
and I understand why learning how to be a leader is a process that can take a while,
and I want college students to start the process while they're still on campus.
(00:26):
There are many different ways that students can develop as leaders, and I highlight a few in this episode.
A great leader on campus. Join me to discuss leadership and her perspective is really helpful.
Doctor Christi Gersh Santos is the director and associate professor of Spanish in the School of American and Global Studies.
After my discussion with her, a couple of questions painted in my brain.
(00:49):
What is your story? How are you going to tell your story?
Continue your listening to learn more from Doctor Garth Santos.
All right. Christy, thank you so much for joining me on Career Connections. I'm really glad to have you here as we get into this conversation.
(01:12):
Thanks so much for inviting me. I'm excited to explore the topic with you.
Great. So, uh, before we really get into talking about, like, how we define leadership and what leadership can look like, uh,
I think the listeners would benefit just from learning a bit about you and, uh,
your background and how you kind of came to be sort of a, a leader on campus.
(01:34):
Sure. Um, yeah. So I am actually a, uh, Spanish professor, uh, by training.
I, uh, joined the then Department of Modern Languages and Global Studies as an instructor.
Um, I actually took a few years leave of absence and went back to the University of Iowa to complete my PhD.
(01:57):
Um, and came back to the department, uh, stepped into the, uh, interim department head role.
And then around that same time, we were looking at, uh, restructuring of the college of what is now arts, humanities and social sciences.
And, uh, through the merger of modern languages and global studies, as well as history, political science, philosophy, religion,
(02:25):
American Indian and Indigenous studies, um ended up in the director role of the school, the School of American and Global Studies.
Um, and I will just say, uh, just because it is near and dear to my heart, um, I am a 17th century or early modern, uh, Spanish literature scholar.
(02:47):
Um, and I kind of mention that just because I think it's important for people to know, um, that there is no one pathway to a leadership role.
Um, I certainly never set out to be the director of the School of American and Global Studies.
Um, I, I really loved, um, teaching and researching and writing about literature, but, um, I certainly draw on a lot of those skills in my role today.
(03:16):
Uh, wonderful. Thanks. Christy. Had a little bit more about you.
I think every time I beat you. And, uh, I did my undergrad at Iowa State.
And so if we don't have any sort of Hawkeye Cyclone kind of conflict in this episode.
But I can't make any promises. But, uh, yeah, I, I also appreciate your point, though, about bringing up, um, your scholarly focus, you know,
(03:39):
because we, you know, my background is in music musicology, and I like the research that I've done.
It was in, uh, early 20th century, uh, jazz music and, and, uh, things in that space.
And, and we don't get to talk about those things very often in our work.
So. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah.
No of course. So leadership is obviously defined in a lot of different ways.
(04:04):
There's leadership classes you could take. There's leadership books and podcasts.
There's all sorts of, you know, leadership development programs or stuff like that.
We'll talk in detail about some of those in this episode. But just broadly speaking, how do you define leadership?
What are some key components for that you think of? Yeah.
I mean, I guess as, uh, a humanist, you know, as somebody who comes to leadership through the humanities.
(04:29):
Um, for me, uh, leadership is is not about authority.
Um, but rather a bit more about a about vision, um, about storytelling.
Right. You want to be able to tell the story of your unit or your organization or your corporation,
(04:50):
you know, whatever or whatever it is that you happen to be leading. Um, it's also a lot about relationship building.
Um, and then I guess, yeah, adaptability, interdisciplinary thinking, um, which, of course, in a school that houses so many disciplines, uh,
I really think that leaders need to be able to synthesize, um, and synthesize ideas that come from different parts of the unit or organization.
(05:22):
Um, but then tell that, uh, be able to tell that story in, um, an engaging and coherent way.
Yeah. Thanks. That's a really, I think, beautiful way to frame leadership.
And, you know, and I like you're already connecting of your,
your scholarship and literature background to like how your, your vision or leadership side of storytelling.
(05:44):
Um, what are some. Can you pull on the thread a little bit more like,
what are some key ways that are good or good storytelling or that that people should be able to apply or do?
Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, you know, sometimes we talk about it in terms of an elevator pitch.
Um, and I think that's maybe the most, uh.
(06:08):
Well known sort of point of entry into storytelling.
So, you know, if you, uh, the famous example, I think we all get in any sort of leadership, uh, training.
But even I mean, when you're going out on the job market or, um, applying to grad school, you know, how do you tell your story?
If you walk into an elevator and you're there with the donor, or you're there with the person who's going to decide if you get the,
(06:35):
you know, scholarship or grant or award or whatever it happens to be.
Um, you know, what would you say to that person in, you know, 30s or a minute?
Um, and then kind of build that out.
So I think, uh, any, any good leader wants to have, um, a real clear, defined vision of what it is that they're trying to do,
(06:57):
of what the mission and vision of their, their unit or organization is.
And they want to be able to share that in a way that's that's passionate, that's engaging, um, and that people want to hear more about.
And so I guess I have, um. Different versions of that story that I tell about full of American and global studies and, um, you know, I again,
(07:22):
because it is interdisciplinary, but I really think that's, uh, the way a lot of the world is going anymore.
Um, when we look at, you know, global economies, um.
Globalization and general global citizenship. Um, pluralistic societies.
I think you want to be able to tell your story, um, in a way that draws on everyone's voices.
(07:47):
And I mean, for me, it's also about crafting that mission and vision, um, in a way that includes everyone as well.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for that because I like the idea of different versions.
I think it's really important to because you have to know your audience.
You have to know, you know, deeply know you're working with in terms of trying to advocate for program word or staff or colleagues or friends.
(08:12):
And, uh, yeah. So that's an important piece.
So nice. Uh, of course, they they highlight leadership as one of the core career readiness competencies.
Uh, why do you think it's important to articulate leadership specifically as a and the career readiness competency?
(08:34):
Yeah, I think there are a couple of reasons for that.
I mean. One is that, uh, leadership isn't confined to formal positions of power.
Um, I think that, um, all of us every day move into and out of leadership roles.
So even as students, I mean, you might be part of, um, you know, a group.
(09:00):
So maybe you are you sort of become the leader of that particular group on that particular class project.
Or maybe you are, you know, in a student club.
And even if you're not on the executive board of the student organization, you know, maybe you volunteer again for a project or something.
And so I think just the fact that, um,
(09:22):
these are skills that we're developing throughout our undergraduate college career, it's important to think about those.
Um, I think, uh. And I think we'll probably talk about this a little bit later with, um, you know, just how do people develop leadership skills?
I think some of that is just really intentionality, um, thinking,
(09:47):
thinking about your leadership in an intentional way and like reflecting on the roles that you play every day and really reflecting on,
okay, where am I using certain skills? Um, that would be defined as leadership skills.
So, you know, whether that's adaptability, the, you know, uh, capacity to set a vision or, um, motivate student people again.
(10:16):
And I think leadership is, is different for everyone. We all lead with different strengths.
Um, but so thinking about that in a meaningful way that you could verbalize that,
articulate that to a, uh, a future employer or a future graduate school director.
(10:36):
Um, I think. That is, I did I think I answered the question, I'm sorry.
Sort of. Um, yeah. But so, so thinking about it in particular as career readiness.
Yeah, yeah. You of course answer the question I, I.
One of the things that you brought up,
(10:57):
and it's something that's kind of a through thread in a lot of these episodes that I'm doing about the specific career readiness competencies,
is this idea of reflection and being intentional with with your work, what you're doing, and really understanding.
Oh, I showed up as a leader in this space. Maybe I didn't expect you, maybe I did.
Um, yeah, it's it's an important piece of it.
Mhm. I think it's also important to articulate the idea that sometimes we're leaders in spaces where we're not aware of.
(11:25):
We just, we show up, we do what we do,
and then we find out maybe a month later that somebody was impacted with the question that we asked at a meeting or,
you know, something that we contributed where we didn't really think of ourselves as being leaders.
But, um, thank you. I think that's right.
And I mean, again, you know, just kind of tying it back to, uh, the schools disciplines of the liberal arts, the humanities, the social sciences.
(11:51):
Um, you know, we talk a lot about those soft skills that, that humanities develop.
Um, and those skills are valued and sought after by employers for a reason.
And I think it is what you just said, like, we don't know when we're going to be called on to lead.
And I mean that.
But literally in formal positions, like I did not know that I would be asked, you know, to, um, put my name in the hat for, for the role of director.
(12:20):
Um, but even just in smaller on a smaller scale.
And, you know, in our day to day lives, as you said, I mean, you know, you may just show up to class and I mean,
leadership that day might look like just motivating, um, or empowering a classmate.
Or maybe it is the fact that you were able to, um, realize that somebody's voice wasn't being heard.
(12:43):
And so you just opened, you know, the opportunity for them to to speak.
And, I mean, it's those little actions as well that, that paying attention, knowing how to read a room,
um, being able to be flexible and adaptable, all of those things are acts of leadership.
Um, that. I think we need to reflect on and articulate intentionally.
(13:10):
Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you. Um.
Okay, so then we're thinking about just generally, uh, how do we expand our capacity to be leaders?
Again here. I just as there is like no one pathway to to becoming a leader.
(13:30):
I think, um, we can. Practice that, uh, practice those skills or intentionally work to expand those capacities.
Um, in a number of ways for, um.
For me. I think it is, uh. Embracing interdisciplinary learning.
(13:52):
Um, I think that pushes us out of our comfort zones, uh, when we specifically, uh, move in and out of different disciplines.
Um, again, as a scholar of the liberal arts, in the humanities.
Um, there's a reason that the modern university still has that system, general education requirement.
(14:18):
I mean, that is very intentionally there.
Uh, to ensure that students get some experience with reading, writing, thinking critically, learning how to analyze a text.
Um, of course, math skills that but but also rhetoric. Communication.
Um, so I think that might seem.
(14:40):
Might not seem like, um, it's leadership skill development, but I do think, um, developing that ability to shift your perspective,
shift your approach that we get through interdisciplinarity, um, is important,
uh, I think intentionally engaging with some leadership training or development.
(15:04):
Um, I will admit that's not something, uh, that I did until later in my career.
Um, again, not specific. Like I am going to a workshop on leadership development.
Um, but I would say take advantage of that.
Like, I think that's something that universities are doing a lot better, uh, with these days.
(15:26):
Um, I mean, in part I didn't do it because it wasn't offered to me as an undergraduate.
But here I think about opportunities we have on campus for our students, like through lead state or,
um, through the Public Service Academy or through any of the student organizations.
I know that Students Association does some intentional development workshops, and I would say take advantage of those.
(15:51):
Yeah for sure.
I want to back up a touch, because I do want to talk specifically about the Public Service Academy and talk specifically about lead state.
But, um, I do want to just offer up that just this idea of showing up in different spaces and continually to explore what you don't know,
because that broadens your horizons and helps you develop this capacity of,
(16:13):
of more knowledge and, and to be able to help your capacity to help other people to um.
I think an important element of that is for me, the more I have gotten involved as as my career has developed,
the more I'm reminded that it's easy to look at a group of people or a certain role and think that they have it figured out or all figured out.
(16:38):
But as soon as you get into that committee or get into that work group, you understand we are all trying to figure out the best solution together.
And and we need your questions. We need your input.
And it's really easy to think like, oh, they must have been given the information that I didn't get.
Yeah. There's some sort of manual somewhere. That's right.
That's it. Yeah, yeah. So, um.
(17:02):
Okay. So specifically action them thinking about how students can develop, you know, as leaders.
Uh. Tell us more about this public service academy.
It's a fairly new formal, uh, program at South Dakota State.
No. So I want to learn a little bit more about it. Yeah.
So, um, the Public Service Academy, uh, was just launched this year.
(17:24):
So, uh, we're in our inaugural year. Um, it was through, uh.
Actually a donor gift. Um, a couple of donors.
So, uh, Mike Huber, former mayor of of Sioux Falls, also an alum, uh, of South Dakota State University.
Um, he had been looking for a way to give back. Um, and, of course, as mayor and just following his own sort of career pathway, um,
(17:51):
he had been involved in students association on campus and just really called to public service.
Um, and, uh, wanted to encourage that.
And I would say that there are um. There are public service academies across the country.
So, uh, this isn't like, uh, a unique idea or organization to Sdsu.
(18:17):
Um, but the idea is that, uh, we need to prepare people early to take on these leadership roles and to understand that leadership isn't about being,
you know, a state senator or the mayor or, you know, a director or whatever.
I mean, that you do lead. We all lead from whatever, uh, role we play in our families, our communities, our schools, our churches.
(18:46):
Um, and get students looking for those opportunities, um, early on.
And so his concept of public service, and I would say that the public service academies in general,
um, while they do, of course, focus on, you know, uh, civic engagement and civil service.
(19:07):
So, um, not necessarily elected roles, but playing a part in your city council or,
you know, the State Department at the national level or whatever that happens to be.
That's certainly one element of public service, but really pushing that down to the community level.
So, you know, will you sit on your school board or will you just maybe be chair of the PTA or whatever it happens to be?
(19:36):
Or maybe, maybe it's not even that formal. Maybe you just recognize a need in your community and you say, hey, I want to organize around that.
Let's do something to to address this need or challenge or difficulty that we're facing.
And so the Public Service Academy does just that.
It, uh, equips students with some explicit leadership development.
(20:00):
So, um, right now, uh, the first component of the PSA is the lead state program here on campus.
Um, there there is a credential behind it.
So there is a public service certificate. It's four courses.
Um, and one of those is developing intercultural competence.
(20:22):
Again, this idea that in a pluralistic society we need to know how to interact with, um,
lots of different people, different ideas, different, you know, diversity of thought.
Uh, you know, all sorts of diversity. Um.
There is, of course, an intro to public administration and like state and local government again,
(20:43):
just really some basic nuts and bolts of how does your community work.
Like if you see a problem where you go to address this, uh, thing.
Um, and then there is an internship, a public service, uh, project and requirement as well.
And then lots of fun things along the way. Um, we just became a member of the Volker Alliance next Gen service Corps.
(21:07):
That's a national organization. Um, it plugs our students into some really cool opportunities.
Um, like somebody a week in DC or spending a week on different campuses,
meeting students from across the country and really plugging into this, um, civic minded, service minded, leadership minded organization.
(21:29):
Wow, that sounds like a really wonderful addition to the program. And there's a lot of offers, a lot of really great opportunities for students.
It does. Yeah, we're super excited about it. Yeah.
Great. So yeah, Lead state is a leadership development program here.
That's off campus State University. It's been in existence for many, many years, uh, long before my, my arrival to campus.
(21:54):
Yeah. I mean, I would say 15, 15, 20 years.
Yeah. That's the number that I was thinking up to. And you and I are both a part of it.
We we serve as professional coaches in, in that program, and I'm currently the chair of lead states.
So I'm trying to organize the programing and all that kind of stuff.
Um, so for listeners, if you're not familiar with what lead State is, we it's primarily in the fall semester.
(22:19):
We try and target students that are their second year on campus, uh, and just expose them to different ideas of leadership within social change.
Uh, we talk a lot about our cliftonstrengths and how to leverage those in different environments.
And then we also have a service project component where we, um, do different projects in the community,
(22:40):
uh, that help, uh, support Jack's Cupboard, which is the food pantry here on campus.
Uh, so there's a whole variety of things. And I think one of the, the fundamental benefits,
the students just really interact with a lot of different people that get put into a cluster of 6 or 7 students.
Uh, and then there's a cohort, a larger cohort that they interact with of about 60 students or so.
(23:05):
And then they also get to interact with all the professional staff and faculty that that help out with the program.
Um, so it just immediately puts people within a support structure that are interested in leadership development.
So, um, that's a really great piece.
And then also just developing knowledge of what a service project can look like and, and different parts of that in um,
(23:28):
um, just understanding the different components of social change and working with others.
So, um, I think it's a really valuable program.
And we're in the midst of recruiting people this spring of 2025.
We're in the midst of recruiting people for the next cohort for the fall. Um, so I'm excited to see how next year rolls out.
But. For listeners just for your benefit, I will put links to both the Public Service Academy website and elite states,
(23:56):
so you can kind of refer to some of that in the show notes.
And and Kevin, maybe just mention, um, mentioning too that, uh, right now, uh, those two programs are, are sort of recruited simultaneously.
So, uh, your name is put forward for lead state or you, you self nominate for lead state.
Um, you will automatically get information about the public Service Academy and have an opportunity to apply,
(24:22):
um, for that, uh, that opportunity as well.
Yes. Thank you. It's a it's an important little element add there for sure.
All right. Good. So you know we have those those programs here on campus.
Um, you I'm thinking about what are some other ways that you feel like.
(24:43):
Students or anybody can explore leadership.
Like are there some some key resources that you, you kind of that have impacted you like a book or a podcast or a, a person?
Yeah, that's a good question. Um, and maybe just before I, I move on to like a specific, um, I would just add to, uh, that I think, um,
(25:06):
international and experiential learning opportunities are also really good ways to, um, develop some of those skills.
So, um, study abroad, like, I mean, if we want to talk about, uh, you know,
self-reliance, adaptability, like, uh, comfort with ambiguity, uh, like, you know,
(25:26):
nothing puts you in in those situations like, uh, study abroad program, um, but also internships,
uh, you know, a lot of disciplines and majors anymore require an internship.
So those are really great ways. Um, just sort of additional ways to, to get some, some, um, development experience.
And they look really great on, on resumes and grad school applications and all that.
(25:50):
Um, but gosh, I, you know, again, since I came to, uh.
Like explicit leadership training. I'm kind of late in my career.
I think, you know, the two things that that come to mind, um, and Cliftonstrengths has been super interesting.
(26:11):
Uh, that was something that I had heard about for quite a while, but until I, uh,
got involved with, uh, lead state, I had never, uh, participated or taken the skill myself.
So I think it's an interesting way to think about, uh, your strengths.
(26:31):
Right? I mean, um, again, if we're talking about intentionality, reflection, the ability to self-reflect, um, it's a nice lens, I think, to use.
So I that definitely has has been fun.
Um. And then I would say just mentors.
(26:52):
Like, I mean, that's probably the way I've gotten most of my like, leadership development is just,
uh, seeking out people that I admired, whether on campus or in my graduate program or community.
And, you know, just asking them out for a cup of coffee and sort of.
(27:14):
Hearing about their own career journeys, or if I'm dealing with a specific challenge.
Um. You know that I will say, in a professional circle.
Um. If you find yourself in a leadership role in a professional circle.
Most professional organizations have, um, like a leadership support, you know, entity.
(27:38):
So, um, I'm in a couple of those.
So the Modern Languages Association has, um, a leadership, uh, listserv and whatnot.
And that has been super helpful if I find myself running into like, oh, how am I going to solve this?
Or what are what are some things that other people have done?
(27:59):
Um, just being able to reach out to people and say, how have you approached this or what have you done when you encountered X?
And and that's been super helpful. Yeah for sure.
Yeah. Thanks for calling that out. Because I think, uh, we talk about mentorship, we talk about networking, uh, relationship building.
And I think just that relational aspect is so big in terms of developing leadership generally.
(28:25):
But but one of the tangible benefits, I think, for me is that a lot of times it helps me just in my confidence and understanding,
you know, if I can debrief with somebody who is in the same meeting, say, okay.
This sounded like this to me. Did it sound like that to you too? And just you start calibrating and start understanding.
Okay, I'm. I'm on the same page with everybody here or, you know, um, offering a different perspective maybe, or something.
(28:52):
And so, yeah, I think from the, from the tactic, like you, you expressed you reaching out to these folks,
asking them, you know, how did you approach a certain problem. So just generally, um, just being more connected with people, um, helps tremendously.
And your perception of yourself as a leader. Uh, so, yeah.
Yeah. Thanks for calling that out. Yeah. And what about you?
(29:15):
I'm curious. Do you have any, uh, like, any podcasts or anything that you tend to listen to?
Yeah. You know, the last few years, uh, a couple of folks have really, um.
Really stood out to me. And. Adam Grant is an author that I value quite a bit.
His books, um, think again and originals really, um, caused me to think very, very differently about some things, and that was really helpful.
(29:43):
Um, Parker's book the Art of the gathering was really helpful.
Um. Is it? It's all this.
It's this idea of intentionally understanding your role as a leader and and hosting and thinking about not just your your be a presence as a person,
but also the space that you're trying to create. And, and so I, I really value that book.
(30:06):
And then, um, Olivia Jaya Jones, uh, I really value her writing a lot to her perspective.
And, um, I'll put this in the show notes, too, for anybody that's listening her TEDx talk on Get Comfortable being uncomfortable is just great.
It's like a ten minute Ted talk, but she's got a lot of great comments in there about just this idea of continually to,
(30:26):
you know, push yourself out of the comfort zone and, um, the importance of that.
So those are some of the kind of quick things I'm thinking about.
But, um. There's no shortage of of things to read and listen to about about leadership.
And so I think it's, it's. The whole point is to engage with those resources though and let's see what you think.
(30:48):
Mhm. Yeah. No thanks for that. I'm always looking for summer reading as, as we approach the.
Okay. So we've covered some ground on leadership. Uh just as a general concept in the specifics.
And then how students can can develop more capacity as a leader.
Before we wrap up, are there any sort of final things you wanted to make sure to to share with me today about leadership or, um, other comments?
(31:17):
I guess I would just say, yeah, kind of reiterate maybe, uh, or sort of summarize some of the, the points that we've touched on.
Um, you know, so, uh. Engage, uh, you know, engage with difference.
Um, but also and specifically in your coursework, like, seek out, um, some of those unique topics or disciplines that you wouldn't necessarily.
(31:45):
Um. Think that you would want to take.
But you know, again, I know I'm biased, but like, take a literature class, like,
no matter what your major is, everyone should take like one intro to lit class,
um, and just sort of explore like that extended reading, that critical reflection, um, putting yourself in somebody else's shoes.
(32:08):
Um, you know, for me, that's why we read is that you get to be different people.
Um, you get to live lives that you would never get to live otherwise.
Uh, that novel or that book or that short story.
Um, so, you know, I'm going to put a plug in for that, um, join organizations, uh,
(32:29):
here on campus, uh, develop public speaking and writing skills again, if you want to.
Really because I often as a leader, if it's a formal leadership role, you are going to be called upon, um,
speak publicly to tell your story to, you know, push for change or whatever, you know, that happens to me.
(32:52):
Um. That critical reflection, I think, is really important.
Um, and then I think like memoirs, biographies, like, um, I'm a fiction scholar, of course, I'm a literature scholar, but, um,
my spouse reads a lot of biographies, and, um, I love listening to the stories that [INAUDIBLE] tell me, uh, you know, from those from his reading.
(33:18):
And we've both learned a lot about, like, just how to strategize or, you know, if you're reading,
you know, a novel, uh, I'm sorry, a biography about Winston Churchill or, you know, Henry Kissinger or,
like, I mean, these are major actors on the world stage and just learning how they thought about things worked their way through,
(33:39):
um, you know, challenges and stuff I think can be really helpful as well.
Um, yeah. Yeah, great.
Thanks so much for for offering that up. I couldn't agree more.
Um, especially thinking about those ideas of just exploring what you don't know
or just and jumping into something that might not seem as relevant as it is.
(34:01):
It can be to your degree necessarily, I think. So the idea of relevance is, you know, changes.
I remember when I was working on a masters in music history.
I needed to take an elective class. And so I decided to take, uh, class on the American Civil War.
Turn out, you know, the timing of it to turn out. At the same time I was learning, I was taking a class on 19th century music history development,
(34:26):
and so it ended up connecting a lot of dots for me and making me even more aware of what was going on in the world entirely in 1860 and 1865.
And and so you have you don't really know what what opportunities are available when you start exploring those things.
(34:47):
Yeah. Okay. Well, uh, thanks again for joining.
Joining me on Career Connections. Uh, doctor Garth Santos, this was this was great.
And I, um, wish you all the best. Thank you.
Thanks so much. Have a great day. Thank you for listening to Career Connections.
(35:07):
Please follow our podcast to hear a thoughts on other related topics and for topic suggestions or questions,
you may contact me at Kevin Dot Fullerton at SD state that Edu and for more information about my office please go to careers.sd state that Edu.
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Career Connections. I'm your host, Kevin Folger. How do people become leaders?
What does it take? Is there a manual? Leadership is cited as one of the best career readiness competencies,
and I understand why learning how to be a leader is a process that can take a while,
and I want college students to start the process while they're still on campus.
(00:26):
There are many different ways that students can develop as leaders, and I highlight a few in this episode.
A great leader on campus. Join me to discuss leadership and her perspective is really helpful.
Doctor Christi Gersh Santos is the director and associate professor of Spanish in the School of American and Global Studies.
After my discussion with her, a couple of questions painted in my brain.
(00:49):
What is your story? How are you going to tell your story?
Continue your listening to learn more from Doctor Garth Santos.
All right. Christy, thank you so much for joining me on Career Connections. I'm really glad to have you here as we get into this conversation.
(01:12):
Thanks so much for inviting me. I'm excited to explore the topic with you.
Great. So, uh, before we really get into talking about, like, how we define leadership and what leadership can look like, uh,
I think the listeners would benefit just from learning a bit about you and, uh,
your background and how you kind of came to be sort of a, a leader on campus.
(01:34):
Sure. Um, yeah. So I am actually a, uh, Spanish professor, uh, by training.
I, uh, joined the then Department of Modern Languages and Global Studies as an instructor.
Um, I actually took a few years leave of absence and went back to the University of Iowa to complete my PhD.
(01:57):
Um, and came back to the department, uh, stepped into the, uh, interim department head role.
And then around that same time, we were looking at, uh, restructuring of the college of what is now arts, humanities and social sciences.
And, uh, through the merger of modern languages and global studies, as well as history, political science, philosophy, religion,
(02:25):
American Indian and Indigenous studies, um ended up in the director role of the school, the School of American and Global Studies.
Um, and I will just say, uh, just because it is near and dear to my heart, um, I am a 17th century or early modern, uh, Spanish literature scholar.
(02:47):
Um, and I kind of mention that just because I think it's important for people to know, um, that there is no one pathway to a leadership role.
Um, I certainly never set out to be the director of the School of American and Global Studies.
Um, I, I really loved, um, teaching and researching and writing about literature, but, um, I certainly draw on a lot of those skills in my role today.
(03:16):
Uh, wonderful. Thanks. Christy. Had a little bit more about you.
I think every time I beat you. And, uh, I did my undergrad at Iowa State.
And so if we don't have any sort of Hawkeye Cyclone kind of conflict in this episode.
But I can't make any promises. But, uh, yeah, I, I also appreciate your point, though, about bringing up, um, your scholarly focus, you know,
(03:39):
because we, you know, my background is in music musicology, and I like the research that I've done.
It was in, uh, early 20th century, uh, jazz music and, and, uh, things in that space.
And, and we don't get to talk about those things very often in our work.
So. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah.
No of course. So leadership is obviously defined in a lot of different ways.
(04:04):
There's leadership classes you could take. There's leadership books and podcasts.
There's all sorts of, you know, leadership development programs or stuff like that.
We'll talk in detail about some of those in this episode. But just broadly speaking, how do you define leadership?
What are some key components for that you think of? Yeah.
I mean, I guess as, uh, a humanist, you know, as somebody who comes to leadership through the humanities.
(04:29):
Um, for me, uh, leadership is is not about authority.
Um, but rather a bit more about a about vision, um, about storytelling.
Right. You want to be able to tell the story of your unit or your organization or your corporation,
(04:50):
you know, whatever or whatever it is that you happen to be leading. Um, it's also a lot about relationship building.
Um, and then I guess, yeah, adaptability, interdisciplinary thinking, um, which, of course, in a school that houses so many disciplines, uh,
I really think that leaders need to be able to synthesize, um, and synthesize ideas that come from different parts of the unit or organization.
(05:22):
Um, but then tell that, uh, be able to tell that story in, um, an engaging and coherent way.
Yeah. Thanks. That's a really, I think, beautiful way to frame leadership.
And, you know, and I like you're already connecting of your,
your scholarship and literature background to like how your, your vision or leadership side of storytelling.
(05:44):
Um, what are some. Can you pull on the thread a little bit more like,
what are some key ways that are good or good storytelling or that that people should be able to apply or do?
Yeah. I mean, I think, uh, you know, sometimes we talk about it in terms of an elevator pitch.
Um, and I think that's maybe the most, uh.
(06:08):
Well known sort of point of entry into storytelling.
So, you know, if you, uh, the famous example, I think we all get in any sort of leadership, uh, training.
But even I mean, when you're going out on the job market or, um, applying to grad school, you know, how do you tell your story?
If you walk into an elevator and you're there with the donor, or you're there with the person who's going to decide if you get the,
(06:35):
you know, scholarship or grant or award or whatever it happens to be.
Um, you know, what would you say to that person in, you know, 30s or a minute?
Um, and then kind of build that out.
So I think, uh, any, any good leader wants to have, um, a real clear, defined vision of what it is that they're trying to do,
(06:57):
of what the mission and vision of their, their unit or organization is.
And they want to be able to share that in a way that's that's passionate, that's engaging, um, and that people want to hear more about.
And so I guess I have, um. Different versions of that story that I tell about full of American and global studies and, um, you know, I again,
(07:22):
because it is interdisciplinary, but I really think that's, uh, the way a lot of the world is going anymore.
Um, when we look at, you know, global economies, um.
Globalization and general global citizenship. Um, pluralistic societies.
I think you want to be able to tell your story, um, in a way that draws on everyone's voices.
(07:47):
And I mean, for me, it's also about crafting that mission and vision, um, in a way that includes everyone as well.
Yeah, yeah, thanks for that because I like the idea of different versions.
I think it's really important to because you have to know your audience.
You have to know, you know, deeply know you're working with in terms of trying to advocate for program word or staff or colleagues or friends.
(08:12):
And, uh, yeah. So that's an important piece.
So nice. Uh, of course, they they highlight leadership as one of the core career readiness competencies.
Uh, why do you think it's important to articulate leadership specifically as a and the career readiness competency?
(08:34):
Yeah, I think there are a couple of reasons for that.
I mean. One is that, uh, leadership isn't confined to formal positions of power.
Um, I think that, um, all of us every day move into and out of leadership roles.
So even as students, I mean, you might be part of, um, you know, a group.
(09:00):
So maybe you are you sort of become the leader of that particular group on that particular class project.
Or maybe you are, you know, in a student club.
And even if you're not on the executive board of the student organization, you know, maybe you volunteer again for a project or something.
And so I think just the fact that, um,
(09:22):
these are skills that we're developing throughout our undergraduate college career, it's important to think about those.
Um, I think, uh. And I think we'll probably talk about this a little bit later with, um, you know, just how do people develop leadership skills?
I think some of that is just really intentionality, um, thinking,
(09:47):
thinking about your leadership in an intentional way and like reflecting on the roles that you play every day and really reflecting on,
okay, where am I using certain skills? Um, that would be defined as leadership skills.
So, you know, whether that's adaptability, the, you know, uh, capacity to set a vision or, um, motivate student people again.
(10:16):
And I think leadership is, is different for everyone. We all lead with different strengths.
Um, but so thinking about that in a meaningful way that you could verbalize that,
articulate that to a, uh, a future employer or a future graduate school director.
(10:36):
Um, I think. That is, I did I think I answered the question, I'm sorry.
Sort of. Um, yeah. But so, so thinking about it in particular as career readiness.
Yeah, yeah. You of course answer the question I, I.
One of the things that you brought up,
(10:57):
and it's something that's kind of a through thread in a lot of these episodes that I'm doing about the specific career readiness competencies,
is this idea of reflection and being intentional with with your work, what you're doing, and really understanding.
Oh, I showed up as a leader in this space. Maybe I didn't expect you, maybe I did.
Um, yeah, it's it's an important piece of it.
Mhm. I think it's also important to articulate the idea that sometimes we're leaders in spaces where we're not aware of.
(11:25):
We just, we show up, we do what we do,
and then we find out maybe a month later that somebody was impacted with the question that we asked at a meeting or,
you know, something that we contributed where we didn't really think of ourselves as being leaders.
But, um, thank you. I think that's right.
And I mean, again, you know, just kind of tying it back to, uh, the schools disciplines of the liberal arts, the humanities, the social sciences.
(11:51):
Um, you know, we talk a lot about those soft skills that, that humanities develop.
Um, and those skills are valued and sought after by employers for a reason.
And I think it is what you just said, like, we don't know when we're going to be called on to lead.
And I mean that.
But literally in formal positions, like I did not know that I would be asked, you know, to, um, put my name in the hat for, for the role of director.
(12:20):
Um, but even just in smaller on a smaller scale.
And, you know, in our day to day lives, as you said, I mean, you know, you may just show up to class and I mean,
leadership that day might look like just motivating, um, or empowering a classmate.
Or maybe it is the fact that you were able to, um, realize that somebody's voice wasn't being heard.
(12:43):
And so you just opened, you know, the opportunity for them to to speak.
And, I mean, it's those little actions as well that, that paying attention, knowing how to read a room,
um, being able to be flexible and adaptable, all of those things are acts of leadership.
Um, that. I think we need to reflect on and articulate intentionally.
(13:10):
Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Thank you. Um.
Okay, so then we're thinking about just generally, uh, how do we expand our capacity to be leaders?
Again here. I just as there is like no one pathway to to becoming a leader.
(13:30):
I think, um, we can. Practice that, uh, practice those skills or intentionally work to expand those capacities.
Um, in a number of ways for, um.
For me. I think it is, uh. Embracing interdisciplinary learning.
(13:52):
Um, I think that pushes us out of our comfort zones, uh, when we specifically, uh, move in and out of different disciplines.
Um, again, as a scholar of the liberal arts, in the humanities.
Um, there's a reason that the modern university still has that system, general education requirement.
(14:18):
I mean, that is very intentionally there.
Uh, to ensure that students get some experience with reading, writing, thinking critically, learning how to analyze a text.
Um, of course, math skills that but but also rhetoric. Communication.
Um, so I think that might seem.
(14:40):
Might not seem like, um, it's leadership skill development, but I do think, um, developing that ability to shift your perspective,
shift your approach that we get through interdisciplinarity, um, is important,
uh, I think intentionally engaging with some leadership training or development.
(15:04):
Um, I will admit that's not something, uh, that I did until later in my career.
Um, again, not specific. Like I am going to a workshop on leadership development.
Um, but I would say take advantage of that.
Like, I think that's something that universities are doing a lot better, uh, with these days.
(15:26):
Um, I mean, in part I didn't do it because it wasn't offered to me as an undergraduate.
But here I think about opportunities we have on campus for our students, like through lead state or,
um, through the Public Service Academy or through any of the student organizations.
I know that Students Association does some intentional development workshops, and I would say take advantage of those.
(15:51):
Yeah for sure.
I want to back up a touch, because I do want to talk specifically about the Public Service Academy and talk specifically about lead state.
But, um, I do want to just offer up that just this idea of showing up in different spaces and continually to explore what you don't know,
because that broadens your horizons and helps you develop this capacity of,
(16:13):
of more knowledge and, and to be able to help your capacity to help other people to um.
I think an important element of that is for me, the more I have gotten involved as as my career has developed,
the more I'm reminded that it's easy to look at a group of people or a certain role and think that they have it figured out or all figured out.
(16:38):
But as soon as you get into that committee or get into that work group, you understand we are all trying to figure out the best solution together.
And and we need your questions. We need your input.
And it's really easy to think like, oh, they must have been given the information that I didn't get.
Yeah. There's some sort of manual somewhere. That's right.
That's it. Yeah, yeah. So, um.
(17:02):
Okay. So specifically action them thinking about how students can develop, you know, as leaders.
Uh. Tell us more about this public service academy.
It's a fairly new formal, uh, program at South Dakota State.
No. So I want to learn a little bit more about it. Yeah.
So, um, the Public Service Academy, uh, was just launched this year.
(17:24):
So, uh, we're in our inaugural year. Um, it was through, uh.
Actually a donor gift. Um, a couple of donors.
So, uh, Mike Huber, former mayor of of Sioux Falls, also an alum, uh, of South Dakota State University.
Um, he had been looking for a way to give back. Um, and, of course, as mayor and just following his own sort of career pathway, um,
(17:51):
he had been involved in students association on campus and just really called to public service.
Um, and, uh, wanted to encourage that.
And I would say that there are um. There are public service academies across the country.
So, uh, this isn't like, uh, a unique idea or organization to Sdsu.
(18:17):
Um, but the idea is that, uh, we need to prepare people early to take on these leadership roles and to understand that leadership isn't about being,
you know, a state senator or the mayor or, you know, a director or whatever.
I mean, that you do lead. We all lead from whatever, uh, role we play in our families, our communities, our schools, our churches.
(18:46):
Um, and get students looking for those opportunities, um, early on.
And so his concept of public service, and I would say that the public service academies in general,
um, while they do, of course, focus on, you know, uh, civic engagement and civil service.
(19:07):
So, um, not necessarily elected roles, but playing a part in your city council or,
you know, the State Department at the national level or whatever that happens to be.
That's certainly one element of public service, but really pushing that down to the community level.
So, you know, will you sit on your school board or will you just maybe be chair of the PTA or whatever it happens to be?
(19:36):
Or maybe, maybe it's not even that formal. Maybe you just recognize a need in your community and you say, hey, I want to organize around that.
Let's do something to to address this need or challenge or difficulty that we're facing.
And so the Public Service Academy does just that.
It, uh, equips students with some explicit leadership development.
(20:00):
So, um, right now, uh, the first component of the PSA is the lead state program here on campus.
Um, there there is a credential behind it.
So there is a public service certificate. It's four courses.
Um, and one of those is developing intercultural competence.
(20:22):
Again, this idea that in a pluralistic society we need to know how to interact with, um,
lots of different people, different ideas, different, you know, diversity of thought.
Uh, you know, all sorts of diversity. Um.
There is, of course, an intro to public administration and like state and local government again,
(20:43):
just really some basic nuts and bolts of how does your community work.
Like if you see a problem where you go to address this, uh, thing.
Um, and then there is an internship, a public service, uh, project and requirement as well.
And then lots of fun things along the way. Um, we just became a member of the Volker Alliance next Gen service Corps.
(21:07):
That's a national organization. Um, it plugs our students into some really cool opportunities.
Um, like somebody a week in DC or spending a week on different campuses,
meeting students from across the country and really plugging into this, um, civic minded, service minded, leadership minded organization.
(21:29):
Wow, that sounds like a really wonderful addition to the program. And there's a lot of offers, a lot of really great opportunities for students.
It does. Yeah, we're super excited about it. Yeah.
Great. So yeah, Lead state is a leadership development program here.
That's off campus State University. It's been in existence for many, many years, uh, long before my, my arrival to campus.
(21:54):
Yeah. I mean, I would say 15, 15, 20 years.
Yeah. That's the number that I was thinking up to. And you and I are both a part of it.
We we serve as professional coaches in, in that program, and I'm currently the chair of lead states.
So I'm trying to organize the programing and all that kind of stuff.
Um, so for listeners, if you're not familiar with what lead State is, we it's primarily in the fall semester.
(22:19):
We try and target students that are their second year on campus, uh, and just expose them to different ideas of leadership within social change.
Uh, we talk a lot about our cliftonstrengths and how to leverage those in different environments.
And then we also have a service project component where we, um, do different projects in the community,
(22:40):
uh, that help, uh, support Jack's Cupboard, which is the food pantry here on campus.
Uh, so there's a whole variety of things. And I think one of the, the fundamental benefits,
the students just really interact with a lot of different people that get put into a cluster of 6 or 7 students.
Uh, and then there's a cohort, a larger cohort that they interact with of about 60 students or so.
(23:05):
And then they also get to interact with all the professional staff and faculty that that help out with the program.
Um, so it just immediately puts people within a support structure that are interested in leadership development.
So, um, that's a really great piece.
And then also just developing knowledge of what a service project can look like and, and different parts of that in um,
(23:28):
um, just understanding the different components of social change and working with others.
So, um, I think it's a really valuable program.
And we're in the midst of recruiting people this spring of 2025.
We're in the midst of recruiting people for the next cohort for the fall. Um, so I'm excited to see how next year rolls out.
But. For listeners just for your benefit, I will put links to both the Public Service Academy website and elite states,
(23:56):
so you can kind of refer to some of that in the show notes.
And and Kevin, maybe just mention, um, mentioning too that, uh, right now, uh, those two programs are, are sort of recruited simultaneously.
So, uh, your name is put forward for lead state or you, you self nominate for lead state.
Um, you will automatically get information about the public Service Academy and have an opportunity to apply,
(24:22):
um, for that, uh, that opportunity as well.
Yes. Thank you. It's a it's an important little element add there for sure.
All right. Good. So you know we have those those programs here on campus.
Um, you I'm thinking about what are some other ways that you feel like.
(24:43):
Students or anybody can explore leadership.
Like are there some some key resources that you, you kind of that have impacted you like a book or a podcast or a, a person?
Yeah, that's a good question. Um, and maybe just before I, I move on to like a specific, um, I would just add to, uh, that I think, um,
(25:06):
international and experiential learning opportunities are also really good ways to, um, develop some of those skills.
So, um, study abroad, like, I mean, if we want to talk about, uh, you know,
self-reliance, adaptability, like, uh, comfort with ambiguity, uh, like, you know,
(25:26):
nothing puts you in in those situations like, uh, study abroad program, um, but also internships,
uh, you know, a lot of disciplines and majors anymore require an internship.
So those are really great ways. Um, just sort of additional ways to, to get some, some, um, development experience.
And they look really great on, on resumes and grad school applications and all that.
(25:50):
Um, but gosh, I, you know, again, since I came to, uh.
Like explicit leadership training. I'm kind of late in my career.
I think, you know, the two things that that come to mind, um, and Cliftonstrengths has been super interesting.
(26:11):
Uh, that was something that I had heard about for quite a while, but until I, uh,
got involved with, uh, lead state, I had never, uh, participated or taken the skill myself.
So I think it's an interesting way to think about, uh, your strengths.
(26:31):
Right? I mean, um, again, if we're talking about intentionality, reflection, the ability to self-reflect, um, it's a nice lens, I think, to use.
So I that definitely has has been fun.
Um. And then I would say just mentors.
(26:52):
Like, I mean, that's probably the way I've gotten most of my like, leadership development is just,
uh, seeking out people that I admired, whether on campus or in my graduate program or community.
And, you know, just asking them out for a cup of coffee and sort of.
(27:14):
Hearing about their own career journeys, or if I'm dealing with a specific challenge.
Um. You know that I will say, in a professional circle.
Um. If you find yourself in a leadership role in a professional circle.
Most professional organizations have, um, like a leadership support, you know, entity.
(27:38):
So, um, I'm in a couple of those.
So the Modern Languages Association has, um, a leadership, uh, listserv and whatnot.
And that has been super helpful if I find myself running into like, oh, how am I going to solve this?
Or what are what are some things that other people have done?
(27:59):
Um, just being able to reach out to people and say, how have you approached this or what have you done when you encountered X?
And and that's been super helpful. Yeah for sure.
Yeah. Thanks for calling that out. Because I think, uh, we talk about mentorship, we talk about networking, uh, relationship building.
And I think just that relational aspect is so big in terms of developing leadership generally.
(28:25):
But but one of the tangible benefits, I think, for me is that a lot of times it helps me just in my confidence and understanding,
you know, if I can debrief with somebody who is in the same meeting, say, okay.
This sounded like this to me. Did it sound like that to you too? And just you start calibrating and start understanding.
Okay, I'm. I'm on the same page with everybody here or, you know, um, offering a different perspective maybe, or something.
(28:52):
And so, yeah, I think from the, from the tactic, like you, you expressed you reaching out to these folks,
asking them, you know, how did you approach a certain problem. So just generally, um, just being more connected with people, um, helps tremendously.
And your perception of yourself as a leader. Uh, so, yeah.
Yeah. Thanks for calling that out. Yeah. And what about you?
(29:15):
I'm curious. Do you have any, uh, like, any podcasts or anything that you tend to listen to?
Yeah. You know, the last few years, uh, a couple of folks have really, um.
Really stood out to me. And. Adam Grant is an author that I value quite a bit.
His books, um, think again and originals really, um, caused me to think very, very differently about some things, and that was really helpful.
(29:43):
Um, Parker's book the Art of the gathering was really helpful.
Um. Is it? It's all this.
It's this idea of intentionally understanding your role as a leader and and hosting and thinking about not just your your be a presence as a person,
but also the space that you're trying to create. And, and so I, I really value that book.
(30:06):
And then, um, Olivia Jaya Jones, uh, I really value her writing a lot to her perspective.
And, um, I'll put this in the show notes, too, for anybody that's listening her TEDx talk on Get Comfortable being uncomfortable is just great.
It's like a ten minute Ted talk, but she's got a lot of great comments in there about just this idea of continually to,
(30:26):
you know, push yourself out of the comfort zone and, um, the importance of that.
So those are some of the kind of quick things I'm thinking about.
But, um. There's no shortage of of things to read and listen to about about leadership.
And so I think it's, it's. The whole point is to engage with those resources though and let's see what you think.
(30:48):
Mhm. Yeah. No thanks for that. I'm always looking for summer reading as, as we approach the.
Okay. So we've covered some ground on leadership. Uh just as a general concept in the specifics.
And then how students can can develop more capacity as a leader.
Before we wrap up, are there any sort of final things you wanted to make sure to to share with me today about leadership or, um, other comments?
(31:17):
I guess I would just say, yeah, kind of reiterate maybe, uh, or sort of summarize some of the, the points that we've touched on.
Um, you know, so, uh. Engage, uh, you know, engage with difference.
Um, but also and specifically in your coursework, like, seek out, um, some of those unique topics or disciplines that you wouldn't necessarily.
(31:45):
Um. Think that you would want to take.
But you know, again, I know I'm biased, but like, take a literature class, like,
no matter what your major is, everyone should take like one intro to lit class,
um, and just sort of explore like that extended reading, that critical reflection, um, putting yourself in somebody else's shoes.
(32:08):
Um, you know, for me, that's why we read is that you get to be different people.
Um, you get to live lives that you would never get to live otherwise.
Uh, that novel or that book or that short story.
Um, so, you know, I'm going to put a plug in for that, um, join organizations, uh,
(32:29):
here on campus, uh, develop public speaking and writing skills again, if you want to.
Really because I often as a leader, if it's a formal leadership role, you are going to be called upon, um,
speak publicly to tell your story to, you know, push for change or whatever, you know, that happens to me.
(32:52):
Um. That critical reflection, I think, is really important.
Um, and then I think like memoirs, biographies, like, um, I'm a fiction scholar, of course, I'm a literature scholar, but, um,
my spouse reads a lot of biographies, and, um, I love listening to the stories that [INAUDIBLE] tell me, uh, you know, from those from his reading.
(33:18):
And we've both learned a lot about, like, just how to strategize or, you know, if you're reading,
you know, a novel, uh, I'm sorry, a biography about Winston Churchill or, you know, Henry Kissinger or,
like, I mean, these are major actors on the world stage and just learning how they thought about things worked their way through,
(33:39):
um, you know, challenges and stuff I think can be really helpful as well.
Um, yeah. Yeah, great.
Thanks so much for for offering that up. I couldn't agree more.
Um, especially thinking about those ideas of just exploring what you don't know
or just and jumping into something that might not seem as relevant as it is.
(34:01):
It can be to your degree necessarily, I think. So the idea of relevance is, you know, changes.
I remember when I was working on a masters in music history.
I needed to take an elective class. And so I decided to take, uh, class on the American Civil War.
Turn out, you know, the timing of it to turn out. At the same time I was learning, I was taking a class on 19th century music history development,
(34:26):
and so it ended up connecting a lot of dots for me and making me even more aware of what was going on in the world entirely in 1860 and 1865.
And and so you have you don't really know what what opportunities are available when you start exploring those things.
(34:47):
Yeah. Okay. Well, uh, thanks again for joining.
Joining me on Career Connections. Uh, doctor Garth Santos, this was this was great.
And I, um, wish you all the best. Thank you.
Thanks so much. Have a great day. Thank you for listening to Career Connections.
(35:07):
Please follow our podcast to hear a thoughts on other related topics and for topic suggestions or questions,
you may contact me at Kevin Dot Fullerton at SD state that Edu and for more information about my office please go to careers.sd state that Edu.
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