April 21, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode we continue our exploration of the NACE Career Readiness Competencies. In 2022, the National Association of Colleges and Employers developed a list of competencies that illustrate whether someone is career ready. For more information on how they came up with their list of competencies, I have shared a link to their report in the show notes. The competencies illustrate different aspects of ourselves that need focus as we become professionals and maintain a professional career. The competencies are very intertwined, but they each have their own individual characteristics. In this episode, we are going to discuss the competency- Teamwork. To aid in this exploration, I am lucky to have a friend of mine join me. Jim Speirs currently serves as the Director of Arts South Dakota.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Career Connections. I'm your host, Kevin Fullerton.
In this episode, we continue our exploration of the career readiness competencies.
The competencies are self and career development. Critical thinking.
Communication. Teamwork. Professionalism. Leadership and technology.
More information about these competencies can be found in the show.
(00:26):
Notes. I haven't seen it recently, but I used to see people wearing a t shirt which stated plays well with others.
It's of course meant to be amusing, but it is a crucial aspect of ourselves we need to demonstrate and communicate to.
Hiring managers, coworkers and colleagues. Which is why the focus of this episode is on teamwork.
(00:47):
To help me explore this idea of teamwork. I'm lucky to have a friend of mine join me.
Jim Speirs currently serves as the director of Arts, South Dakota.
He's an accomplished musician, educator, and generally a good person.
So in other words, he plays well with others. All right.
(01:08):
Hello, Jim. Thanks so much for joining me on the the podcast for Career Connections.
You agreed to join me and talk about teamwork, and I really want to get into that content before.
But before we do that, I want to give you an opportunity to kind of, uh, introduce yourself,
give a little background on on your career and, uh, what you're up to now.
(01:29):
Very good. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Kevin. Um, well, I, uh, I've worked in the nonprofit sector mostly, um,
since I graduated from South Dakota State University, and it's been primarily in the arts sector within non-profits.
Um. And I've been really fortunate to to make a career of that right here in South Dakota.
(01:50):
I, uh, anybody that lives in the region is going to know about the Washington Pavilion
of Arts and Science to the cultural arts institution down here in Sioux Falls.
And, um, they were just opening, um, when I graduated was their first summer, um, being open to the public.
And so, uh, my internship, uh, that summer, after graduating from or before graduation from most issue was, um, working at the pavilion.
(02:16):
Very fortunate to to get in on the kind of the beginning phases of that experience.
A lot of, um, both, uh, successes and growing pains, uh, for, uh, organization kind of the first of its kind in this region.
And then I went on from there to be the first operations director for the South Dakota Symphony Orchestra.
(02:37):
That, uh, organization was, uh, growing at the time, um, adding to their staff.
And they realized with several of the touring groups and they were forming a chamber orchestra,
um, they needed to have a position that was dedicated to operations.
So, uh, I was fortunate to be hired, uh, as the first director of operations, and, um,
(02:58):
and I'll kind of see that next phase of the orchestra as they moved into the pavilion and, and grew as an organization.
Um, so that was that was really exciting. Um, uh, again, people from this area are going to know about the South Dakota Symphony Orchestra and,
and just what a great, uh, arts organization, that ensemble or that that group has become.
(03:20):
They're real advocates and, uh, cultural, uh, bridges here in South Dakota between, uh, regions, between um, but different styles of music.
And anyway, it's it's been a really fun, uh, journey to watch that group grow.
Um, and then after that, I started working for, uh, South Dakota State.
I went to work for my alma mater, um, within the alumni association.
(03:43):
And I was, uh, primarily involved in our, um, events, um, alumni events and marketing.
And it was fun because we had, uh, Sdsu had just transitioned to Division one.
And so, you know, you for more of a regional organization or a regional, uh, university to, to have a big time national footprint.
(04:04):
And so, uh, for us and the alumni association, we went from, um,
I can't remember we doubled the number of events that we would host literally within about a year or two.
It just exploded. People wanted to get together anytime the Jackrabbits were anywhere, you know?
And I mean, it's all over the country. So that was really cool to be part of that as well.
You know, I've had, uh, a lot of, um, in my career.
(04:27):
I've had a lot of opportunities to to sort of be on the ground level of something new,
either a, you know, a brand new organization or or a new chapter, new position.
Um, you know, it's been fun to, to, to, to be part of the kind of the, the, um.
Creatively, um, being part of a kind of a reorganization of an organization.
(04:50):
Yeah. And, um, also with that, I went into marketing after that, Kevin, and worked at, uh,
Fresh Produce, which is a boutique marketing agency here in Sioux Falls, for sure.
My only for profit, uh, gig, you could say.
Um, but what a what? You know, fresh produce.
And I think most advertising agencies, you really can look at them as, as arts agencies,
(05:12):
you know, they're they're part of the arts sector, part of the creative sector.
And fresh produce had just moved into Sioux Falls when I started.
So there again, I was kind of on the on the beginning, the ground level of, of, uh, of a company that was growing quickly.
Um. And and just being part of of the strategy of, of that company growing, adding positions,
(05:35):
um, you know, expanding their services and that that was really fun to do.
And then after that is when I started with our South Dakota.
So, um, I've been with our South Dakota about nine years now.
And once again, um, had the privilege of, uh, starting a brand new organization, being on the,
the very, you know, beginning phases of, of a new organization, um, our South Dakota.
(06:01):
Incorporated in 2015 after previous arts advocacy and service organization uh closed its doors.
There was a real, uh, a void here, a vacuum in our state for an arts service and advocacy organization.
So, um, the our first board of directors, um, for, uh, upstanding individuals, saw the need for this this,
(06:23):
uh, organization, um, they formed the board incorporated and then asked if I would run it.
So I was the first employee and started in basically early 2016.
And now it's, um, growing into an organization with five employees, um, expanded.
Um. Our our portfolio of services really sort of changed how we look at our work.
(06:47):
Um, when we first started, I'd say most most of our constituents, um, would say that we were an advocacy organization, arts advocacy.
And certainly that's a big part of what we do and still do. But we have learned over the years that we're we're more than advocacy.
We're a service organization. We serve the arts community in a number of ways.
So we kind of changed our tune and how we talked about our work.
(07:10):
Um, and so that's where I'm at today. Ah, South Dakota is a statewide arts advocacy and service organization.
Um, we do a lot of, uh, arts awareness, um, celebrating, uh, the arts across the state and in our.
Really dynamic arts ecosystem. We do a lot of, um.
(07:30):
Um, education, um, through professional development, through our conferences.
Our cohorts are our, uh, various institutes that we do that are geared towards either arts education professionals or arts organization leaders.
And then a third, um, yes, we still do a lot of advocacy, and that's our kind of our main third bucket, if you will, third area of service.
(07:53):
And we go to DC, meet with our congressional leaders in DC, talked about the importance of supporting the arts.
We do the same in peer at our state capitol.
In fact, this year, you know, we were we were in a couple times and advocated for a couple different, uh, um, bills that that, uh,
we felt were, um, one we felt was an important, um, opportunity for the arts education sector and another one that we were concerned about.
(08:18):
So we do a lot of local advocacy as well.
And then we try to serve, uh, on the community level, maybe less directly, but trying to equip, uh, local leaders,
uh, community leaders, arts leaders, uh, with tools they need to be advocates within their community.
Um, so that's a long, uh, uh, probably more than you wanted.
But yeah, I'm really fortunate to have a career that's been primarily in the arts and in primarily nonprofits.
(08:45):
And then on top of that, as you know, I'm also a musician, so I, I joke about wearing my, uh,
you know, my I have a night job, day job in a, in a night job and my night jobs playing trumpet.
I'm really, really fortunate to play in a number of professional ensembles across the state.
And, um, I try to be as active as possible as a professional trumpet player.
(09:06):
Yeah, a lot of really good stuff there, Joe. I didn't know some of those things.
So it's it's fun to hear you lay that out. So, um, yeah.
Thanks a lot for your leadership in arts, South Dakota. It's it's really important work.
Um, and a lot of, a lot of people benefit from it. So, um.
Yeah, thank you for that. I am I'm struck with this, you know, that through threat of,
(09:28):
of you sort of being a part of things on the at the beginning, the beginning stages of the organizations or groups.
And, um, we're here to talk about teamwork.
You know, the National Association for Colleges and Employers has these eight competencies for career readiness and teamwork is a is a big,
big one there. And I want to hear your thoughts then about um, teamwork.
(09:51):
But then also thinking about building the team like the initiating a team.
Yeah, great. Great question. Something interesting to think about, especially the building a team.
You know, when you're starting from, you know, kind of from a, uh, a, a beginning phase for an organization.
And what do you want that team to look like? Um, but I, you know, when I think about a team, uh,
(10:18):
I truly just think about people that are serving a common mission that have common goals and, and, uh, bring their own unique skills,
um, their, their own unique, um, passions, uh, experiences, relationships to,
to add to the the greater good of a team, you know, the whole, um, two minds, uh, I think better than one.
(10:44):
I mean, that's truly, you know, uh, two sets of hands, uh, you know, to two people working, uh, answering emails or.
How do you want to look at that? Uh, you know, there's, uh, there's just so much, um, value in adding.
Different perspectives, different levels of experience.
(11:05):
Different backgrounds. But all of those coming together to work, hopefully in unison towards this mission.
You know, in nonprofit world, we talk a lot about mission, but I think you could look at it towards,
you know, different goals or, or, um, uh, strategies, however you want to define that.
But we're we're individuals with unique experiences of backgrounds can all add to that, to that skill set of, of um, of achieving success.
(11:35):
Um. So you know. And. When I think about my career, both as a, you know, a nonprofit and arts administrator, um, but also as a musician, I think.
Really what strikes me and what I what I always will come back to is the people I've worked with.
(11:56):
You know, I'm not going to remember. There's a there's a few meetings I can think about that I remember, you know,
that were really either very exciting or awkward or, you know, whatever the memory is.
But most of the time you're not going to remember meetings, you're not going to remember events,
you're not, but you're going to remember those people that you served alongside.
And, you know, those are those are really, uh, often become close friends.
(12:18):
Um, and so I think that's the the power right there of a great team is the they, they are that that is what.
Adds to your experience as a professional.
I think back about the teams that I've been part of, not necessarily specifically just the work of the organization.
(12:40):
It's usually more rooted in the people I've served with. Um, and, and so that, you know, leads to kind of your second question, you know,
when you're starting to build an organization or you're part of a, you know, uh, the early phases of an organization that is growing its team.
Um. Boy. What, uh, what, uh, opportunity.
(13:01):
You know what, uh, what a a great time in, uh, in the life cycle of an organization.
And also what a. Um. An important time.
You know what a what an opportunity to take the wrong turn right to maybe set the organization off on the wrong path.
And I think it all comes back to having the right people around the table.
(13:24):
Uh, so, you know, for. For me, it's just it's, you know, sometimes it's hard to even verbalize.
It's, you know, it's it's it's a, a lot of just interactions.
It's, you know, I hate to say it this way because it's probably doesn't add much to, uh, you know, to, uh,
(13:45):
replication or how to learn from each other, but, um, but often times it's a gut check, you know, does this person fit with our with our culture?
Does this person vibe? Do they do they have connections right away with our team, with our coworkers?
Um, it's something that's intangible and it's often harder to, uh.
(14:08):
Hard to articulate, but it's noticeable. You can tell.
Um, so that's to me is a big part of building a new team.
Um, and then, you know, in, in our work, um, it's always been very important that the people that join our team have a passion for what we're doing.
You know, if if you're.
(14:29):
If you you know, at Art South Dakota, if you've never really had a passion for the arts or you're not been part of the arts community or,
you know, you just don't have any relation to that,
this I think this is the kind of environment that wouldn't you wouldn't thrive in, you know, I mean,
I think perhaps to start with that deep passion for serving that community, serving that mission.
Um, so that's another thing that we definitely look for. Sure.
(14:54):
Yeah. I appreciate where you're talking about that idea of a culture fit or kind of a
gut check where you're when you're meeting with people trying to build a team.
And I'm thinking about, you know, college students,
current college students that might be listening to this episode and thinking, okay, well, what is it?
I don't how do I exhibit that? Or, you know, what does that look like?
And before we started recording this episode, we were talking about just the importance of showing up and how how crucial that is.
(15:18):
And I feel like. We can we can demonstrate that we were showing up from for for people by understanding the mission of the organization,
of understanding the role and being asked to do and show up in ways that are really authentic.
And I think that's kind of what what you're getting at. Sometimes it's harder to relate that, um, if just tell somebody, I need you to be authentic.
(15:41):
Yeah, but it's important. And I feel like that's kind of all right.
What you're getting at anyway. Yeah, I think authenticity is. That's a very good word to use.
Um, I, I, I, I hear that and that I think fits exactly with what I was thinking, you know, um, but yeah, I in it for someone entering.
(16:04):
You know, looking for the right team, the right fit. I think it's just as much for that.
That, uh. Um for the that college student that, um, you know, the person that's applying the applicant, if you will,
for for a position, you know, for them to also be doing the gut check, uh, you know, does this feel authentic to me?
(16:26):
Do I feel like this is an authentic organization that really is truly trying to serve a mission, and that this team truly is inspired by the work?
And do I want to be part of that? And, you know, and you can you can. I think you can feel that in a lot of ways.
Or is it just, you know, doesn't seem like they connect.
It doesn't seem like they all sort of speak with the same passion and the same drive and the
(16:48):
same even reference to mission doesn't even mean you have to use the same words or anything.
But you can talk a lot, you know? Um, so as far as if you're if you're searching for the right fit, you know, um,
it's important for the organization to be looking for authenticity and for that right spirit, that right connection.
But the flip side is, the applicant, you know, also needs to be be considering that.
(17:11):
Yeah for sure. You know, a lot of college students have a hard time sort of seeing our our paths.
They see, you know, professionals out there sort of assume maybe make this like loose assumption that that's how,
you know, they arrived because they intended to be be there. So, you know, when you graduated from South Dakota State,
(17:31):
did you know that you were going to be founding Art South Dakota or being like the first director of South Dakota?
And. Huh? Absolutely not.
I mean, if you had asked me this even ten years ago, Kevin,
in a year before arts ethics was formed and someone said, are you thinking about starting an arts service?
I would have been I. No. You're kidding me. Um.
(17:53):
It's interesting. I suppose there's, you know, for me, it's always been, uh, sort of, uh, um, non-linear, you know, uh, an unknown path,
you know, um, being open to conversation, being open to, um, curiosity, I guess, or being curious about opportunities.
(18:13):
I should say that's a better way to phrase that. Um, maybe there are some people that know right away.
You know, I want to be an admiral in the Navy, so I'm going to go to the Naval Academy.
I'm going to do this, that xyzzy, and there's a formula and a path there, and I respect that.
And I think there are folks that that live that type of, uh, vision.
(18:33):
But but for so many people that I know and I'm definitely would fit into this category.
You can't you can't predict where you're going to be in 5 or 10 years.
It's hard to know the people that you will meet, the experiences that you will have, the timing that will, uh, be in place for the next opportunity.
(18:53):
Um, there's so many variables and so many factors that go into.
Uh, a career. Um, I think that most importantly, I would have, uh, suggest, advise, be open to those.
Always have the conversation. Even to this day.
You know, I'm I'm not looking for a career change or anything, but if someone called me in and they say, hey, you know, I'm, uh, you know, I'm.
(19:17):
Would you ever consider this new opportunity with whatever it would be?
You know, you're always willing to have the conversation.
I think it's so important to be open to conversation, to be curious about what could what could be, um, and then, um,
but when we could talk all more about relationships and, you know, and, but, and, you know, building skills and things like that.
(19:42):
But I do think primarily, you know, for those who maybe.
Don't exactly know what they're going to be in 20 years and have not decided I'm going to be in this type of lawyer in this city for, you know,
if that's not your path, then just be really open to, to to exploring and experiencing and seeing where those,
those, um, opportunities take you and you never know.
(20:06):
For me, here we are at Art South Dakota. But like I said it a year before this organization started,
I you could have bet me $1 million and I would have said, no, there's just no way I'm doing this.
So, uh, uh, so it's but now I'm, I'm, I feel very privileged to be in this role.
So one of the things that I think about, especially with as you were talking about your background.
(20:31):
It's just the fact of, um. You're obviously know how to function as a as a member of a team and show up professionally and, and do good work.
And I think because a lot of your work experiences seem really connected to each other, and especially when we're talking about our area,
South Dakota or South Dakota at Eufaula specifically, uh, the arts world is very small.
(20:53):
And so if you aren't able to function as a as a good team member, humble, kind, show up professionally,
some of these opportunities probably would not have opened themselves up to you. Um, as as the years progressed.
Right? Right. Um. And in terms of teamwork, we you know, we often talk about athletics.
Um, is is a good way to learn how to be a team member.
(21:17):
But, um, you and I both have backgrounds in music.
Yeah. I learned a lot about being a team member in music.
So I want you to talk specifically about what you learned as a musician and how that sort of helps you,
even just in the nonprofit space of working with teams. Yes, I can't.
Um, there, I think is no better.
(21:42):
Opportunity to understand team building and train yourself or equip yourself to be a good team member than being a musician.
I mean, I just, um. I think about that a lot over the years that music has.
First and foremost, introduce me to so many great people, right?
(22:03):
Because music is a, uh. Uh, uh, a group activity.
It's often in front of, uh, you know, audiences, um, and it's often in many different locations,
you know, it really gets you in front of a lot of different people.
It connects you with a lot of different people and a lot of diverse people.
You know, I mean, it's it's music really brings community together.
(22:27):
So you're going to to meet a lot of, of your community if you are a musician.
Um, but even before that, you know, I think that or thinking deeper about being a good team member, you have to.
You have to play, um, nice with your team if you're going to be a good musician and a respected musician.
(22:53):
Um. I remember when I was in, um, high school band, we had a director, um, who's well known and very famous in the state.
His name's Milo Winter. Great band leader. And I remember him telling us, uh, in one of our rehearsals, you know, you, no matter what part you play,
(23:14):
no matter what skill level you are on your instrument, you need to show up prepared.
You need to show up and play your part. You. Everyone else is relying upon you.
Whether you're the last year trumpet, the principal trumpet, whether you're playing the snare drum,
or you're up on the podium with the baton in your hand, everyone plays a key role, an equal role, frankly.
(23:37):
And I think the way he described it once, if I remember right, it was you said, you know, if you're in math class, you know,
and the person at the desk next to you excels at math and gets 100% on every test and you get you're not as good at math or you don't prepare.
You know, maybe you don't study here, you know, and you show up and you get 70% or 75%.
(24:00):
It really, you know, you're each. On your own.
It doesn't affect each other, you know. The other person, your desk mate, your classmate can still thrive at that.
You can fail at it, and that's okay. Um, but in music, the way he described it says, just imagine going to the next,
you know, football game and hearing the national anthem played only 65%, right?
(24:23):
Right. Yeah. That won't be very good. People would be like, what's wrong with this band?
What? They don't listen to every other note? Well, it was sort of his way of describing, like, everyone in this band needs to get 100%.
That's what we all have to strive for.
Because if you don't and you're the third, you know, you're the the last year third part trumpet player, but you're missing every other note.
(24:44):
It doesn't matter how well everyone else in the band plays, the band's going to perform at 65%,
and everyone's going to listen to it in the audience and go, that band's not good.
They haven't. Oh, they're doing so. It's just a great example of, as a musician in this ensemble,
you have a role that you are responsible for and everyone else is relying upon you to do it.
(25:07):
And if you don't do it, we all fail. So talk about teamwork.
There's no better, um, definition than than a music ensemble that if the team doesn't all show up ready to perform,
ready to play, then the ensemble will fail as, as one, as as a unit.
It won't matter who fails or who doesn't show up ready to be part of that team?
(25:32):
It's the team that that that fails.
Or the better way to look at that is if everyone on the team shows up prepared, ready to play their part, ready to perform, then the team succeeds.
And then you hear a great concert. You hear an amazing music concert.
Um, yeah. So I think that prepared me more than anything for being a good member of the team.
(25:52):
The other side of that, too, we all, you know, if you've been in music, you get this part as well as you need to also honor that.
We're doing this together as a team. It's not about me. It's not about you.
If you show up and you think that playing your trumpet is all about you just showing off and people noticing you,
you'll detract from from that that ensemble just as much as you would if you made a bunch of mistakes,
(26:15):
because you have to support that band, that ensemble, as a member of the team,
not as a vehicle or a way for you to to show off, to excel, to be noticed.
Right. And I think the same is that way with a great team in a nonprofit, for example.
You know, my experience, you know, if we all show up to serve the mission.
(26:36):
And then it's not necessarily about us being noticed.
Then there's a different level of success than if I just show up and I'm like, okay, I want everyone to see me talk.
I'm the head of arts. Not because I want you to notice that if we weren't, we wouldn't be successful.
Because it's not about me. I can only do this little bit.
(26:58):
This small sliver of what we do is my role.
Everyone else on the team also has their role, and it's that cumulative.
When we're all doing it together, that we have the greatest success.
So, you know, if I show up really wanting it to be just about me, um,
or any other member of the team doing that, um, then we all, I think, lose some effect, some success.
(27:23):
Yeah, yeah. Thanks so much for that. I really like that.
That, uh. The situation that you presented there.
Um, something that that I think about a lot.
A big memory for me was when I was at Iowa State, uh, and the when ensemble director had a sit in a different, different seat.
(27:43):
Well, because we were working on a piece of music and we weren't getting that there was a certain section and we all just kept falling down on.
And so he just had to sit in different spots.
So I was found myself sitting next to a clarinetist and a flutist and, um, had the oboe behind me, um, and a percussionist in front of me.
Uh, so just totally messed up, kind of the, our sense of how the room should sound, even, you know, we're at work on a piece.
(28:10):
And oh, that was so enlightening. I still remember, you know, how different the piece sounded because I was hearing different,
different parts being played in different ways, different parts of my my brain anyway.
And it really helped the ensemble, um, kind of get over what, whatever it was that we were not getting right.
We were able to Philly kind of gel as a team in a better way and perform that piece.
(28:37):
That's interesting. Yeah. I still really think about that a lot, because I find myself in rooms when there's a voice is not being heard,
just trying to call out those people to help them speak up a little bit more so we can actually explore an issue completely, you know.
Right. Yeah. Interesting. To to the idea of making sure all the voices are heard.
(28:58):
I mean, when we you and I think about voices often, you know, from our music background, we're thinking about the,
the clarinet or the, you know, or the balance of the ensemble in the room, but that's very.
Yeah, that's it applies here as well. Like, all the voices are heard.
That's when it has the most beauty.
Right. I mean, that's when music is really music, you know.
And I think the same for a great, a great team is when all the voices are heard and have a role.
(29:21):
That's when it's really magic, you know? Yeah. So that's really cool.
And that's the thing about being in an ensemble that I think you and I both can relate to is when you're not prepared,
there's nothing that feels worse than showing up to a show and not being prepared and feeling
like you just let the other five members of the band down and you didn't play your part,
(29:43):
and they were there and they played great. And yeah, and you phoned it in or, you know, we're trying to read it on the bandstand.
They're reading the music and you weren't prepared. That's the worst feeling ever.
I mean, I've had that happen.
And, you know, you'd think I'd learn after once, but sometimes the memory fades in and I think, oh, I'll get through the show.
(30:04):
No problem. I'll be fine. Then I show up and I'm like, wow, I just, I that was awful.
Why would they ever want me to come back and play with them again? There's something there about.
That's the other side of being in a, in a, in a,
in a band where I think you acutely feel when you've let the team down in one year, they know that you didn't pull your weight.
So it's a great place to learn about being a valued member of the team and making sure you're prepared and your voice counts.
(30:28):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because even in those moments, you know, the audience might not pick up on what you weren't prepared on,
um, because they might not know the piece you're playing so they wouldn't really have a comparison.
You know, the national anthem analogy is really great because everybody knows how that goes, how it's supposed to go.
Right. Exactly. Sure. You know, so at times we can get away with maybe not being quite as prepared.
(30:52):
So then we start building in some bad habits there.
But I think we always know in the back of your head, you know, I could have showed up a little bit more for my team.
Uh, yeah. Yeah. So. And they probably know it too, right?
Once you get to, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a good team or good band, they're going to realize to you.
Yeah, yeah. Uh, Jim Spears wasn't quite ready for that show, you know.
Or and Spears wasn't quite ready for that meeting. He should have probably spent a little more time prepare, you know.
(31:18):
Yep. Yeah. And I remember, uh. Years ago, I was, uh.
Uh, Witmer saw a septet concert, and the trombonist was, uh, improvising.
If I was that amazing solo. He gets done and he makes eye contact with Wynton.
(31:38):
And clearly something wasn't going right because the two of them, the way they locked eyes, you could tell like what it was like.
Nope. This isn't this isn't what I want to play wanted.
You know, I think those moments are really interesting when you can kind of see that dynamic in the team.
It's like, okay, we've done things better. Um, and yeah, the audience might still be enjoying it, but we know we could do better, right?
(32:01):
Yeah, exactly. Well, I, I hear you there. So, um.
Thinking then specifically, you've had the opportunity to be, uh, a leader in a lot of,
in different teams and function and, you know, sort of leading the group, not just a team member.
Um, what? What do you learned about leadership?
(32:28):
Uh. But how and how that's different from just being a regular team member.
Like, how can you describe that experience? You bet.
Uh. Good question. And. You know, that's one area I do personally feel like I could.
Try to learn more about, you know, study a bit. I don't feel like I've maybe really done as much personal leadership development as I'd like.
(32:56):
Um, I also think you can overdo it. You know, I think there's, you know, 1000 books out there and sort of the, you know,
similar number of philosophy is and, you know, you it maybe isn't as complicated as some people make it.
Um, but for me, it's been. I think there's a couple things that come to mind.
One is having the right team around the table.
(33:19):
I mean, I think that's so important. And, um, I've been really fortunate to have that.
Uh, everywhere I've been, you know, there's it's just been a great team.
I don't can't ever recall being part of an organization where I was like, wow, you know, only half of us are really here doing our work.
You know, everyone has always been fully invested, and that's so important.
(33:42):
So, um, but then, you know, in terms of leadership, I think there's for me.
Trying to play to our team members strengths.
You know, I think that, um, at Art South Dakota, for example, you know,
we've had notions of what certain people will do when they join the organization.
(34:06):
You know, we definitely are looking to fill certain types of positions, certain job roles or responsibilities.
But I think it's been important for us as a team to acknowledge when a new member
that that joins our organization has a skill set that maybe we didn't realize.
Um, and then being open and flexible to, okay,
(34:28):
how can we kind of reorganize or how can we make sure this person is utilizing their talents to the best of their ability?
And that may mean what we thought was going to be a certain job will change.
You know, a certain position within the organization will change somewhat.
So I think really looking for each individual strength versus just trying to fit a person to a job, if that makes sense.
(34:52):
You know, I think that probably gets a little harder the bigger the company.
You know, you need to hire that data analyst. You know, level two, you know.
Um, thankfully, I've never been in that type of, uh, environment where we really can personalize to everyone's, uh, talents.
But so I think that's an important aspect of being a leader.
Um. And. Then the other thing that I found at Art South Dakota that we work hard as a team.
(35:18):
It's not just me. I mean, we all collectively work towards this. You know, we have obviously a mission.
We have this passion for the work. We do. We we have a mission statement.
We have a vision. You know, all the things a lot of nonprofits have.
We even have a, you know, we've set a, you know, a, um, a ten year kind of a long range plan.
We have certain strategies. And, um, but yeah, every year as we start to look at programs, as we look at our, um.
(35:47):
At our work, we try to define, um.
We try to define, obviously goals. We try to look at what do we want to do this year?
What do we want to change? What do we want to improve on? But for me, it's always been in I shouldn't say just for me.
I mean, I'm the leader of the team, but we really it's collective that we set goals that we know we can achieve.
(36:09):
Yeah. I think that's a maybe a philosophy.
There's probably other philosophies there, but I've always felt strongly about saying these are things that we feel we can actually get done.
Not trying to set goals that are the impossible, that always feel like you'll never get there.
And that's maybe another way to do things. You know, it's always the the dream, which I did, and I love that too.
(36:32):
But sometimes when you feel like you never achieve success. So for us, we try our best to set goals that we feel are manageable.
Um, but, you know, throughout the project, um, does that mean we hit a 100%?
No, we never have. I mean, there's never been a year we can look back and say, oh, we set these 20 goals for the year and we check all 20 off.
(36:56):
But it's never been we have 20 goals for the year and we'll inject two of them off either.
You know what I mean. We usually accomplishing jority of what we set out to do.
And I think that's an important function of leadership.
Um, if anything, for me, sometimes I feel is to pull back a little bit, you know,
because we have a team that's so passionate that they want to do everything.
(37:16):
And sometimes I feel like maybe my job is sometimes to say, wait, maybe we should wait on this one.
Let's let's table this for another time, because we're already kind of maxed out or,
you know, trying to recognize some of the capacity and bandwidth there.
Um, so and then, um.
You know, I think the other important. This is so cliche, but I'll say it anyways, is not being afraid to to to do any of the,
(37:43):
you know, to do all of the work, to do any of the work yourself as, but as the leader.
Um, you know, I've been.
In situations where you see that the leader of the organization feel like they are part of that, you get the sense they're not part of the team.
You know, they show up at a different time. Um, maybe they don't travel together.
Maybe, you know, and the team's finally at the end of whatever their big event or big meeting, the leader's not there celebrating.
(38:12):
You know, it seems like that was somewhat removed from the team where I feel like be in the team,
you know, I'm just one of the I'm just one of the staff members of this organization.
I happen to have the title executive director, but really, I carry this the same weight and have the,
I think, the same responsibilities that everyone else has. So, you know, show up and do the work.
(38:35):
Um, and don't be afraid to, to roll up your sleeves and climb up a ladder, you know, and,
you know, do some of that stuff where sometimes I feel like we've gotten in our head that,
oh, if you're the leader, you shouldn't be on the ladder,
or you shouldn't have to show up early with your dirty clothes and do the, the quote unquote dirty work.
Right. But that's I just don't think that's true. I think you should be willing to to do at all and be right alongside your team in that effort.
(39:02):
So, um, I really hope and the work that I've done that I've tried to show that that that,
you know, we're all on the same level there when it comes to some of the stuff that's,
I think primarily when it comes to some of the stuff that maybe isn't the most fun when it comes
to the longer hours or we've just done this huge event and we all want to just go home now,
(39:22):
or we all want to go over to the bar and have a drink and celebrate.
But guess what? We got two hours of work to clean everything up, you know?
Uh, so I think if we all need to feel like we're part of that, including including me, um.
So wearing all the hats, maybe that's a good way to say it. You know, being.
Yeah. And in the nonprofit world, it's pretty much how it works, especially the arts nonprofit.
(39:45):
They're usually small organizations, and every position wears many hats.
And that includes the executive director or the CEO. The leader has to wear a lot.
Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, the, the nonprofit space that you're in, you.
I feel like it. It's really it's crucial in every role I suppose.
But it's really important for the, the leader of that group to be able to read capacity and bandwidth and and because you're right,
(40:13):
oftentimes those teams really are so passion driven that like, oh, we can do this, we can do that, we can do this, we do that.
It's like, hold on. Yeah. Remember last this time last year when we were all exhausted because we did these events?
Let's try to like space it out a little bit more. Um, so I kind of I kind of ran into that too a little bit with, with my staff were like,
hey, maybe we can add another career fair, maybe we can add another year. It's like, hold on.
(40:36):
Uh, yeah, I've checked the words out a little bit. Yeah.
And I would add one more thing to that as I've just been thinking about Kevin is for me, anyway, I, I, um.
So. Um. I'm so thankful and amazed.
I should say maybe. Look at it that way. I'm amazed by our team and all that they bring to our work.
(41:00):
The passion, but also the skills. The number of hours they're willing to put in the energy.
You know, it never stops.
And so my hope, you know, when I'm, um, setting an agenda for a board meeting or we're doing a newsletter to talk about some of our work or something,
my hope is that we can make sure all of our team is included in that exposure in that, um.
(41:29):
In, in, in the, uh, sort of that the public view of what we do, you know, because one thing I,
I really believe, uh, in my work anyways, I don't want to be the quote unquote face of the organization.
Um, I really want us all to be the face of the organizer. I want the organization to be the face of the organization.
(41:51):
So, um, I think it's so important then for for us to lift every member of the team up, you know,
in their way to make sure the arts community, in our case, our constituents are seeing our full team,
seeing all of us, seeing seeing us as a collective,
not just me or not just our communications person or or in the case of fundraising, not just our fundraiser.
(42:13):
Right. But they're seeing really us as a team. And so.
You know, I, I think I, I tried my best to, you know, like have everyone and everyone attends our board meetings, for example.
You know, there's a lot of organizations that that's not the case, but we're always there.
Everyone speaks up at our board meetings, shares their work.
You know, as far as the staff, um, so I, I realize, you know, someday if you have an organization that has 50 people, that might not be possible.
(42:41):
But our case, I think is so good to to to build a really spotlight.
Everyone on the team as, as a contributor, as a, as a, uh, as a professional.
Well, yeah. And I love that, Jim. I think I really, really do appreciate that perspective.
And it, you know, has the added benefit to uh,
(43:02):
if you've got some staff that are earlier their professional career that gives you some experience of what a board meeting
looks like and what prepare your report for board meeting looks like and agenda creation and all that kind of stuff.
So mean. It's from the tactical perspective. It's it's good professional development too.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Good point. Well, great.
(43:23):
We've covered a lot of territory here, talking about teamwork and and music and such.
Uh, are there some sort of final thoughts that you have or any other any questions you've been thinking about to.
I think this is a, you know, it's. When you first asked me about this, I remember we were having coffee and I.
(43:44):
And you were mentioning what you're doing. And then this podcast, I thought, you know.
It's made me think a little bit about my role as the leader, you know, not that I didn't before, but, um.
I think this is a good acknowledgment for those of us who do serve in positions of leadership to, to take time to, to think about that.
(44:06):
Um. To to. Dedicate time to it, if you will.
Um, yeah. You know, we so often get in the weeds, we get into the minutia of, um, email.
You know, it was such a great example. And also, you've just spent four hours emails and then you, you know,
(44:27):
you look back at your week and you just think, I feel like all I did was sort of react.
Um, and that's that's natural. That's going to happen, you know, because we're all, uh, especially in the nonprofit world,
we're often, um, doing the, you know, the jobs of, of what should be 2 or 3 people.
Um, you know, we're often under, uh, under capacity. Um.
(44:51):
Well are understaffed for capacity for the for the work at hand. Um.
So and I think every position should do this because we're all leaders to a certain degree.
Right. That's the other maybe philosophy.
I think no matter what your title is, you're still an important leader of what you do for that organization, for your role.
You're a leader. But, you know, for those of us who truly have that kind of leadership title, I think, um,
(45:15):
I need to remind myself to stop once in a while and just really think critically about that and look back at our.
Okay, here's some of the the longer term goals we've set.
How are we doing on that to to sort of remove myself from my own spinning, you know, my own,
uh, you know, where I feel like maybe my, my time is not as disciplined as it should be.
(45:39):
And, you know, that relates back to music, too.
You know, sometimes you get done with two hours of practice and you're just like, well, what do they really work on?
You know, like, did I actually what was I trying to achieve with those,
those last few other than just to, to play my horn, you know, which is so important.
So I think that's also, you know, you need to have some strategy to, to improving your leadership, you know, to, to, to being a better leader.
(46:03):
Um, and, you know, I learned that when I was at Fresh Produce, I had the opportunity to go to some.
Some professional development sessions called growth coach. Some people may be familiar with it.
Here I'm talking it's designed for a, you know, a business owner.
Um, but one of the big takeaways from that, and I think the maybe the.
The reason you do girls coach, is that you need to learn to step away from working in your business and work on your business.
(46:33):
So instead of just working on the day to day mechanics, but to step back and think, okay, what are we trying to do?
What's the next thing? How are we going to improve what we're doing? Um, and well, I it's easy to get out of that practice.
You know, I'm just talking to you right now of thinking, man, I, I really need to just set some time aside for me to do that.
(46:53):
It's been a long time since I've really tried to be critical and evaluate.
Okay, how am I doing in this role?
You know. Um, so that's another thing.
As a leader, I think making sure you do take some time to step away from the day to day and think about a bigger picture and,
um, and then constantly be open to, to interacting with, with your team.
(47:14):
You know, that's the other thing that is so funny. This is sparking so many things that we think about are South Dakota.
But, you know, we have annual reviews per se.
You know, most safe are the the files, the human resource side of things.
But every day is an annual review in a way.
You know, anytime there's something that someone on the team wants to talk about, me or anybody, we just jump on the phone and talk about it.
(47:36):
This is this is a quote unquote open door office.
You know, there's never the wrong time to say, hey, I'm concerned about this, or I have this idea or I want to do this differently.
So I think being open to that, um, I think is good leadership and and being open to that on a, on a, on a daily basis as much as possible.
(47:57):
Yeah, absolutely. I think being able.
That's part of a high functioning team being able to really communicate problems openly and have clear roles and,
uh, be able to discuss projects and stuff like that. Yeah, I.
When I have an employee come to me concerned about something, I almost, um,
(48:18):
I won't say I enjoy it, but I am grateful that they feel like they can because it shows like,
okay, I think I'm building the right culture with my staff here, that that we can discuss these kinds of things.
So, um, yeah, it's really important point.
Yeah. That's a that is a culture thing. So I appreciate that description because and that's what hopefully we can create in our, in our teams.
(48:41):
Yeah. Great. Well Jim thanks so much.
It's it's fun to hear you talk a little bit more about your career.
Uh, I've, I've known you a little bit, um, mostly as a musician.
So it's just, uh, kind of nice to to learn a little bit more about your background, and I.
I know you're busy, guys, so I appreciate you taking the time to, uh, join in with the podcast and, uh, wish you all the best.
(49:05):
Hey. Yeah, thanks for asking me. It's been fun. Thank you for listening to Career Connections.
Please follow our podcast to hear our thoughts on other related topics and for topics,
suggestions or questions, you may contact me at Kevin Dot Fullerton at SD state that edu.
(49:25):
And for more information about my office, please go to careers that SD state that edu.
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Career Connections. I'm your host, Kevin Fullerton.
In this episode, we continue our exploration of the career readiness competencies.
The competencies are self and career development. Critical thinking.
Communication. Teamwork. Professionalism. Leadership and technology.
More information about these competencies can be found in the show.
(00:26):
Notes. I haven't seen it recently, but I used to see people wearing a t shirt which stated plays well with others.
It's of course meant to be amusing, but it is a crucial aspect of ourselves we need to demonstrate and communicate to.
Hiring managers, coworkers and colleagues. Which is why the focus of this episode is on teamwork.
(00:47):
To help me explore this idea of teamwork. I'm lucky to have a friend of mine join me.
Jim Speirs currently serves as the director of Arts, South Dakota.
He's an accomplished musician, educator, and generally a good person.
So in other words, he plays well with others. All right.
(01:08):
Hello, Jim. Thanks so much for joining me on the the podcast for Career Connections.
You agreed to join me and talk about teamwork, and I really want to get into that content before.
But before we do that, I want to give you an opportunity to kind of, uh, introduce yourself,
give a little background on on your career and, uh, what you're up to now.
(01:29):
Very good. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Kevin. Um, well, I, uh, I've worked in the nonprofit sector mostly, um,
since I graduated from South Dakota State University, and it's been primarily in the arts sector within non-profits.
Um. And I've been really fortunate to to make a career of that right here in South Dakota.
(01:50):
I, uh, anybody that lives in the region is going to know about the Washington Pavilion
of Arts and Science to the cultural arts institution down here in Sioux Falls.
And, um, they were just opening, um, when I graduated was their first summer, um, being open to the public.
And so, uh, my internship, uh, that summer, after graduating from or before graduation from most issue was, um, working at the pavilion.
(02:16):
Very fortunate to to get in on the kind of the beginning phases of that experience.
A lot of, um, both, uh, successes and growing pains, uh, for, uh, organization kind of the first of its kind in this region.
And then I went on from there to be the first operations director for the South Dakota Symphony Orchestra.
(02:37):
That, uh, organization was, uh, growing at the time, um, adding to their staff.
And they realized with several of the touring groups and they were forming a chamber orchestra,
um, they needed to have a position that was dedicated to operations.
So, uh, I was fortunate to be hired, uh, as the first director of operations, and, um,
(02:58):
and I'll kind of see that next phase of the orchestra as they moved into the pavilion and, and grew as an organization.
Um, so that was that was really exciting. Um, uh, again, people from this area are going to know about the South Dakota Symphony Orchestra and,
and just what a great, uh, arts organization, that ensemble or that that group has become.
(03:20):
They're real advocates and, uh, cultural, uh, bridges here in South Dakota between, uh, regions, between um, but different styles of music.
And anyway, it's it's been a really fun, uh, journey to watch that group grow.
Um, and then after that, I started working for, uh, South Dakota State.
I went to work for my alma mater, um, within the alumni association.
(03:43):
And I was, uh, primarily involved in our, um, events, um, alumni events and marketing.
And it was fun because we had, uh, Sdsu had just transitioned to Division one.
And so, you know, you for more of a regional organization or a regional, uh, university to, to have a big time national footprint.
(04:04):
And so, uh, for us and the alumni association, we went from, um,
I can't remember we doubled the number of events that we would host literally within about a year or two.
It just exploded. People wanted to get together anytime the Jackrabbits were anywhere, you know?
And I mean, it's all over the country. So that was really cool to be part of that as well.
You know, I've had, uh, a lot of, um, in my career.
(04:27):
I've had a lot of opportunities to to sort of be on the ground level of something new,
either a, you know, a brand new organization or or a new chapter, new position.
Um, you know, it's been fun to, to, to, to be part of the kind of the, the, um.
Creatively, um, being part of a kind of a reorganization of an organization.
(04:50):
Yeah. And, um, also with that, I went into marketing after that, Kevin, and worked at, uh,
Fresh Produce, which is a boutique marketing agency here in Sioux Falls, for sure.
My only for profit, uh, gig, you could say.
Um, but what a what? You know, fresh produce.
And I think most advertising agencies, you really can look at them as, as arts agencies,
(05:12):
you know, they're they're part of the arts sector, part of the creative sector.
And fresh produce had just moved into Sioux Falls when I started.
So there again, I was kind of on the on the beginning, the ground level of, of, uh, of a company that was growing quickly.
Um. And and just being part of of the strategy of, of that company growing, adding positions,
(05:35):
um, you know, expanding their services and that that was really fun to do.
And then after that is when I started with our South Dakota.
So, um, I've been with our South Dakota about nine years now.
And once again, um, had the privilege of, uh, starting a brand new organization, being on the,
the very, you know, beginning phases of, of a new organization, um, our South Dakota.
(06:01):
Incorporated in 2015 after previous arts advocacy and service organization uh closed its doors.
There was a real, uh, a void here, a vacuum in our state for an arts service and advocacy organization.
So, um, the our first board of directors, um, for, uh, upstanding individuals, saw the need for this this,
(06:23):
uh, organization, um, they formed the board incorporated and then asked if I would run it.
So I was the first employee and started in basically early 2016.
And now it's, um, growing into an organization with five employees, um, expanded.
Um. Our our portfolio of services really sort of changed how we look at our work.
(06:47):
Um, when we first started, I'd say most most of our constituents, um, would say that we were an advocacy organization, arts advocacy.
And certainly that's a big part of what we do and still do. But we have learned over the years that we're we're more than advocacy.
We're a service organization. We serve the arts community in a number of ways.
So we kind of changed our tune and how we talked about our work.
(07:10):
Um, and so that's where I'm at today. Ah, South Dakota is a statewide arts advocacy and service organization.
Um, we do a lot of, uh, arts awareness, um, celebrating, uh, the arts across the state and in our.
Really dynamic arts ecosystem. We do a lot of, um.
(07:30):
Um, education, um, through professional development, through our conferences.
Our cohorts are our, uh, various institutes that we do that are geared towards either arts education professionals or arts organization leaders.
And then a third, um, yes, we still do a lot of advocacy, and that's our kind of our main third bucket, if you will, third area of service.
(07:53):
And we go to DC, meet with our congressional leaders in DC, talked about the importance of supporting the arts.
We do the same in peer at our state capitol.
In fact, this year, you know, we were we were in a couple times and advocated for a couple different, uh, um, bills that that, uh,
we felt were, um, one we felt was an important, um, opportunity for the arts education sector and another one that we were concerned about.
(08:18):
So we do a lot of local advocacy as well.
And then we try to serve, uh, on the community level, maybe less directly, but trying to equip, uh, local leaders,
uh, community leaders, arts leaders, uh, with tools they need to be advocates within their community.
Um, so that's a long, uh, uh, probably more than you wanted.
But yeah, I'm really fortunate to have a career that's been primarily in the arts and in primarily nonprofits.
(08:45):
And then on top of that, as you know, I'm also a musician, so I, I joke about wearing my, uh,
you know, my I have a night job, day job in a, in a night job and my night jobs playing trumpet.
I'm really, really fortunate to play in a number of professional ensembles across the state.
And, um, I try to be as active as possible as a professional trumpet player.
(09:06):
Yeah, a lot of really good stuff there, Joe. I didn't know some of those things.
So it's it's fun to hear you lay that out. So, um, yeah.
Thanks a lot for your leadership in arts, South Dakota. It's it's really important work.
Um, and a lot of, a lot of people benefit from it. So, um.
Yeah, thank you for that. I am I'm struck with this, you know, that through threat of,
(09:28):
of you sort of being a part of things on the at the beginning, the beginning stages of the organizations or groups.
And, um, we're here to talk about teamwork.
You know, the National Association for Colleges and Employers has these eight competencies for career readiness and teamwork is a is a big,
big one there. And I want to hear your thoughts then about um, teamwork.
(09:51):
But then also thinking about building the team like the initiating a team.
Yeah, great. Great question. Something interesting to think about, especially the building a team.
You know, when you're starting from, you know, kind of from a, uh, a, a beginning phase for an organization.
And what do you want that team to look like? Um, but I, you know, when I think about a team, uh,
(10:18):
I truly just think about people that are serving a common mission that have common goals and, and, uh, bring their own unique skills,
um, their, their own unique, um, passions, uh, experiences, relationships to,
to add to the the greater good of a team, you know, the whole, um, two minds, uh, I think better than one.
(10:44):
I mean, that's truly, you know, uh, two sets of hands, uh, you know, to two people working, uh, answering emails or.
How do you want to look at that? Uh, you know, there's, uh, there's just so much, um, value in adding.
Different perspectives, different levels of experience.
(11:05):
Different backgrounds. But all of those coming together to work, hopefully in unison towards this mission.
You know, in nonprofit world, we talk a lot about mission, but I think you could look at it towards,
you know, different goals or, or, um, uh, strategies, however you want to define that.
But we're we're individuals with unique experiences of backgrounds can all add to that, to that skill set of, of um, of achieving success.
(11:35):
Um. So you know. And. When I think about my career, both as a, you know, a nonprofit and arts administrator, um, but also as a musician, I think.
Really what strikes me and what I what I always will come back to is the people I've worked with.
(11:56):
You know, I'm not going to remember. There's a there's a few meetings I can think about that I remember, you know,
that were really either very exciting or awkward or, you know, whatever the memory is.
But most of the time you're not going to remember meetings, you're not going to remember events,
you're not, but you're going to remember those people that you served alongside.
And, you know, those are those are really, uh, often become close friends.
(12:18):
Um, and so I think that's the the power right there of a great team is the they, they are that that is what.
Adds to your experience as a professional.
I think back about the teams that I've been part of, not necessarily specifically just the work of the organization.
(12:40):
It's usually more rooted in the people I've served with. Um, and, and so that, you know, leads to kind of your second question, you know,
when you're starting to build an organization or you're part of a, you know, uh, the early phases of an organization that is growing its team.
Um. Boy. What, uh, what, uh, opportunity.
(13:01):
You know what, uh, what a a great time in, uh, in the life cycle of an organization.
And also what a. Um. An important time.
You know what a what an opportunity to take the wrong turn right to maybe set the organization off on the wrong path.
And I think it all comes back to having the right people around the table.
(13:24):
Uh, so, you know, for. For me, it's just it's, you know, sometimes it's hard to even verbalize.
It's, you know, it's it's it's a, a lot of just interactions.
It's, you know, I hate to say it this way because it's probably doesn't add much to, uh, you know, to, uh,
(13:45):
replication or how to learn from each other, but, um, but often times it's a gut check, you know, does this person fit with our with our culture?
Does this person vibe? Do they do they have connections right away with our team, with our coworkers?
Um, it's something that's intangible and it's often harder to, uh.
(14:08):
Hard to articulate, but it's noticeable. You can tell.
Um, so that's to me is a big part of building a new team.
Um, and then, you know, in, in our work, um, it's always been very important that the people that join our team have a passion for what we're doing.
You know, if if you're.
(14:29):
If you you know, at Art South Dakota, if you've never really had a passion for the arts or you're not been part of the arts community or,
you know, you just don't have any relation to that,
this I think this is the kind of environment that wouldn't you wouldn't thrive in, you know, I mean,
I think perhaps to start with that deep passion for serving that community, serving that mission.
Um, so that's another thing that we definitely look for. Sure.
(14:54):
Yeah. I appreciate where you're talking about that idea of a culture fit or kind of a
gut check where you're when you're meeting with people trying to build a team.
And I'm thinking about, you know, college students,
current college students that might be listening to this episode and thinking, okay, well, what is it?
I don't how do I exhibit that? Or, you know, what does that look like?
And before we started recording this episode, we were talking about just the importance of showing up and how how crucial that is.
(15:18):
And I feel like. We can we can demonstrate that we were showing up from for for people by understanding the mission of the organization,
of understanding the role and being asked to do and show up in ways that are really authentic.
And I think that's kind of what what you're getting at. Sometimes it's harder to relate that, um, if just tell somebody, I need you to be authentic.
(15:41):
Yeah, but it's important. And I feel like that's kind of all right.
What you're getting at anyway. Yeah, I think authenticity is. That's a very good word to use.
Um, I, I, I, I hear that and that I think fits exactly with what I was thinking, you know, um, but yeah, I in it for someone entering.
(16:04):
You know, looking for the right team, the right fit. I think it's just as much for that.
That, uh. Um for the that college student that, um, you know, the person that's applying the applicant, if you will,
for for a position, you know, for them to also be doing the gut check, uh, you know, does this feel authentic to me?
(16:26):
Do I feel like this is an authentic organization that really is truly trying to serve a mission, and that this team truly is inspired by the work?
And do I want to be part of that? And, you know, and you can you can. I think you can feel that in a lot of ways.
Or is it just, you know, doesn't seem like they connect.
It doesn't seem like they all sort of speak with the same passion and the same drive and the
(16:48):
same even reference to mission doesn't even mean you have to use the same words or anything.
But you can talk a lot, you know? Um, so as far as if you're if you're searching for the right fit, you know, um,
it's important for the organization to be looking for authenticity and for that right spirit, that right connection.
But the flip side is, the applicant, you know, also needs to be be considering that.
(17:11):
Yeah for sure. You know, a lot of college students have a hard time sort of seeing our our paths.
They see, you know, professionals out there sort of assume maybe make this like loose assumption that that's how,
you know, they arrived because they intended to be be there. So, you know, when you graduated from South Dakota State,
(17:31):
did you know that you were going to be founding Art South Dakota or being like the first director of South Dakota?
And. Huh? Absolutely not.
I mean, if you had asked me this even ten years ago, Kevin,
in a year before arts ethics was formed and someone said, are you thinking about starting an arts service?
I would have been I. No. You're kidding me. Um.
(17:53):
It's interesting. I suppose there's, you know, for me, it's always been, uh, sort of, uh, um, non-linear, you know, uh, an unknown path,
you know, um, being open to conversation, being open to, um, curiosity, I guess, or being curious about opportunities.
(18:13):
I should say that's a better way to phrase that. Um, maybe there are some people that know right away.
You know, I want to be an admiral in the Navy, so I'm going to go to the Naval Academy.
I'm going to do this, that xyzzy, and there's a formula and a path there, and I respect that.
And I think there are folks that that live that type of, uh, vision.
(18:33):
But but for so many people that I know and I'm definitely would fit into this category.
You can't you can't predict where you're going to be in 5 or 10 years.
It's hard to know the people that you will meet, the experiences that you will have, the timing that will, uh, be in place for the next opportunity.
(18:53):
Um, there's so many variables and so many factors that go into.
Uh, a career. Um, I think that most importantly, I would have, uh, suggest, advise, be open to those.
Always have the conversation. Even to this day.
You know, I'm I'm not looking for a career change or anything, but if someone called me in and they say, hey, you know, I'm, uh, you know, I'm.
(19:17):
Would you ever consider this new opportunity with whatever it would be?
You know, you're always willing to have the conversation.
I think it's so important to be open to conversation, to be curious about what could what could be, um, and then, um,
but when we could talk all more about relationships and, you know, and, but, and, you know, building skills and things like that.
(19:42):
But I do think primarily, you know, for those who maybe.
Don't exactly know what they're going to be in 20 years and have not decided I'm going to be in this type of lawyer in this city for, you know,
if that's not your path, then just be really open to, to to exploring and experiencing and seeing where those,
those, um, opportunities take you and you never know.
(20:06):
For me, here we are at Art South Dakota. But like I said it a year before this organization started,
I you could have bet me $1 million and I would have said, no, there's just no way I'm doing this.
So, uh, uh, so it's but now I'm, I'm, I feel very privileged to be in this role.
So one of the things that I think about, especially with as you were talking about your background.
(20:31):
It's just the fact of, um. You're obviously know how to function as a as a member of a team and show up professionally and, and do good work.
And I think because a lot of your work experiences seem really connected to each other, and especially when we're talking about our area,
South Dakota or South Dakota at Eufaula specifically, uh, the arts world is very small.
(20:53):
And so if you aren't able to function as a as a good team member, humble, kind, show up professionally,
some of these opportunities probably would not have opened themselves up to you. Um, as as the years progressed.
Right? Right. Um. And in terms of teamwork, we you know, we often talk about athletics.
Um, is is a good way to learn how to be a team member.
(21:17):
But, um, you and I both have backgrounds in music.
Yeah. I learned a lot about being a team member in music.
So I want you to talk specifically about what you learned as a musician and how that sort of helps you,
even just in the nonprofit space of working with teams. Yes, I can't.
Um, there, I think is no better.
(21:42):
Opportunity to understand team building and train yourself or equip yourself to be a good team member than being a musician.
I mean, I just, um. I think about that a lot over the years that music has.
First and foremost, introduce me to so many great people, right?
(22:03):
Because music is a, uh. Uh, uh, a group activity.
It's often in front of, uh, you know, audiences, um, and it's often in many different locations,
you know, it really gets you in front of a lot of different people.
It connects you with a lot of different people and a lot of diverse people.
You know, I mean, it's it's music really brings community together.
(22:27):
So you're going to to meet a lot of, of your community if you are a musician.
Um, but even before that, you know, I think that or thinking deeper about being a good team member, you have to.
You have to play, um, nice with your team if you're going to be a good musician and a respected musician.
(22:53):
Um. I remember when I was in, um, high school band, we had a director, um, who's well known and very famous in the state.
His name's Milo Winter. Great band leader. And I remember him telling us, uh, in one of our rehearsals, you know, you, no matter what part you play,
(23:14):
no matter what skill level you are on your instrument, you need to show up prepared.
You need to show up and play your part. You. Everyone else is relying upon you.
Whether you're the last year trumpet, the principal trumpet, whether you're playing the snare drum,
or you're up on the podium with the baton in your hand, everyone plays a key role, an equal role, frankly.
(23:37):
And I think the way he described it once, if I remember right, it was you said, you know, if you're in math class, you know,
and the person at the desk next to you excels at math and gets 100% on every test and you get you're not as good at math or you don't prepare.
You know, maybe you don't study here, you know, and you show up and you get 70% or 75%.
(24:00):
It really, you know, you're each. On your own.
It doesn't affect each other, you know. The other person, your desk mate, your classmate can still thrive at that.
You can fail at it, and that's okay. Um, but in music, the way he described it says, just imagine going to the next,
you know, football game and hearing the national anthem played only 65%, right?
(24:23):
Right. Yeah. That won't be very good. People would be like, what's wrong with this band?
What? They don't listen to every other note? Well, it was sort of his way of describing, like, everyone in this band needs to get 100%.
That's what we all have to strive for.
Because if you don't and you're the third, you know, you're the the last year third part trumpet player, but you're missing every other note.
(24:44):
It doesn't matter how well everyone else in the band plays, the band's going to perform at 65%,
and everyone's going to listen to it in the audience and go, that band's not good.
They haven't. Oh, they're doing so. It's just a great example of, as a musician in this ensemble,
you have a role that you are responsible for and everyone else is relying upon you to do it.
(25:07):
And if you don't do it, we all fail. So talk about teamwork.
There's no better, um, definition than than a music ensemble that if the team doesn't all show up ready to perform,
ready to play, then the ensemble will fail as, as one, as as a unit.
It won't matter who fails or who doesn't show up ready to be part of that team?
(25:32):
It's the team that that that fails.
Or the better way to look at that is if everyone on the team shows up prepared, ready to play their part, ready to perform, then the team succeeds.
And then you hear a great concert. You hear an amazing music concert.
Um, yeah. So I think that prepared me more than anything for being a good member of the team.
(25:52):
The other side of that, too, we all, you know, if you've been in music, you get this part as well as you need to also honor that.
We're doing this together as a team. It's not about me. It's not about you.
If you show up and you think that playing your trumpet is all about you just showing off and people noticing you,
you'll detract from from that that ensemble just as much as you would if you made a bunch of mistakes,
(26:15):
because you have to support that band, that ensemble, as a member of the team,
not as a vehicle or a way for you to to show off, to excel, to be noticed.
Right. And I think the same is that way with a great team in a nonprofit, for example.
You know, my experience, you know, if we all show up to serve the mission.
(26:36):
And then it's not necessarily about us being noticed.
Then there's a different level of success than if I just show up and I'm like, okay, I want everyone to see me talk.
I'm the head of arts. Not because I want you to notice that if we weren't, we wouldn't be successful.
Because it's not about me. I can only do this little bit.
(26:58):
This small sliver of what we do is my role.
Everyone else on the team also has their role, and it's that cumulative.
When we're all doing it together, that we have the greatest success.
So, you know, if I show up really wanting it to be just about me, um,
or any other member of the team doing that, um, then we all, I think, lose some effect, some success.
(27:23):
Yeah, yeah. Thanks so much for that. I really like that.
That, uh. The situation that you presented there.
Um, something that that I think about a lot.
A big memory for me was when I was at Iowa State, uh, and the when ensemble director had a sit in a different, different seat.
(27:43):
Well, because we were working on a piece of music and we weren't getting that there was a certain section and we all just kept falling down on.
And so he just had to sit in different spots.
So I was found myself sitting next to a clarinetist and a flutist and, um, had the oboe behind me, um, and a percussionist in front of me.
Uh, so just totally messed up, kind of the, our sense of how the room should sound, even, you know, we're at work on a piece.
(28:10):
And oh, that was so enlightening. I still remember, you know, how different the piece sounded because I was hearing different,
different parts being played in different ways, different parts of my my brain anyway.
And it really helped the ensemble, um, kind of get over what, whatever it was that we were not getting right.
We were able to Philly kind of gel as a team in a better way and perform that piece.
(28:37):
That's interesting. Yeah. I still really think about that a lot, because I find myself in rooms when there's a voice is not being heard,
just trying to call out those people to help them speak up a little bit more so we can actually explore an issue completely, you know.
Right. Yeah. Interesting. To to the idea of making sure all the voices are heard.
(28:58):
I mean, when we you and I think about voices often, you know, from our music background, we're thinking about the,
the clarinet or the, you know, or the balance of the ensemble in the room, but that's very.
Yeah, that's it applies here as well. Like, all the voices are heard.
That's when it has the most beauty.
Right. I mean, that's when music is really music, you know.
And I think the same for a great, a great team is when all the voices are heard and have a role.
(29:21):
That's when it's really magic, you know? Yeah. So that's really cool.
And that's the thing about being in an ensemble that I think you and I both can relate to is when you're not prepared,
there's nothing that feels worse than showing up to a show and not being prepared and feeling
like you just let the other five members of the band down and you didn't play your part,
(29:43):
and they were there and they played great. And yeah, and you phoned it in or, you know, we're trying to read it on the bandstand.
They're reading the music and you weren't prepared. That's the worst feeling ever.
I mean, I've had that happen.
And, you know, you'd think I'd learn after once, but sometimes the memory fades in and I think, oh, I'll get through the show.
(30:04):
No problem. I'll be fine. Then I show up and I'm like, wow, I just, I that was awful.
Why would they ever want me to come back and play with them again? There's something there about.
That's the other side of being in a, in a, in a,
in a band where I think you acutely feel when you've let the team down in one year, they know that you didn't pull your weight.
So it's a great place to learn about being a valued member of the team and making sure you're prepared and your voice counts.
(30:28):
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, because even in those moments, you know, the audience might not pick up on what you weren't prepared on,
um, because they might not know the piece you're playing so they wouldn't really have a comparison.
You know, the national anthem analogy is really great because everybody knows how that goes, how it's supposed to go.
Right. Exactly. Sure. You know, so at times we can get away with maybe not being quite as prepared.
(30:52):
So then we start building in some bad habits there.
But I think we always know in the back of your head, you know, I could have showed up a little bit more for my team.
Uh, yeah. Yeah. So. And they probably know it too, right?
Once you get to, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a good team or good band, they're going to realize to you.
Yeah, yeah. Uh, Jim Spears wasn't quite ready for that show, you know.
Or and Spears wasn't quite ready for that meeting. He should have probably spent a little more time prepare, you know.
(31:18):
Yep. Yeah. And I remember, uh. Years ago, I was, uh.
Uh, Witmer saw a septet concert, and the trombonist was, uh, improvising.
If I was that amazing solo. He gets done and he makes eye contact with Wynton.
(31:38):
And clearly something wasn't going right because the two of them, the way they locked eyes, you could tell like what it was like.
Nope. This isn't this isn't what I want to play wanted.
You know, I think those moments are really interesting when you can kind of see that dynamic in the team.
It's like, okay, we've done things better. Um, and yeah, the audience might still be enjoying it, but we know we could do better, right?
(32:01):
Yeah, exactly. Well, I, I hear you there. So, um.
Thinking then specifically, you've had the opportunity to be, uh, a leader in a lot of,
in different teams and function and, you know, sort of leading the group, not just a team member.
Um, what? What do you learned about leadership?
(32:28):
Uh. But how and how that's different from just being a regular team member.
Like, how can you describe that experience? You bet.
Uh. Good question. And. You know, that's one area I do personally feel like I could.
Try to learn more about, you know, study a bit. I don't feel like I've maybe really done as much personal leadership development as I'd like.
(32:56):
Um, I also think you can overdo it. You know, I think there's, you know, 1000 books out there and sort of the, you know,
similar number of philosophy is and, you know, you it maybe isn't as complicated as some people make it.
Um, but for me, it's been. I think there's a couple things that come to mind.
One is having the right team around the table.
(33:19):
I mean, I think that's so important. And, um, I've been really fortunate to have that.
Uh, everywhere I've been, you know, there's it's just been a great team.
I don't can't ever recall being part of an organization where I was like, wow, you know, only half of us are really here doing our work.
You know, everyone has always been fully invested, and that's so important.
(33:42):
So, um, but then, you know, in terms of leadership, I think there's for me.
Trying to play to our team members strengths.
You know, I think that, um, at Art South Dakota, for example, you know,
we've had notions of what certain people will do when they join the organization.
(34:06):
You know, we definitely are looking to fill certain types of positions, certain job roles or responsibilities.
But I think it's been important for us as a team to acknowledge when a new member
that that joins our organization has a skill set that maybe we didn't realize.
Um, and then being open and flexible to, okay,
(34:28):
how can we kind of reorganize or how can we make sure this person is utilizing their talents to the best of their ability?
And that may mean what we thought was going to be a certain job will change.
You know, a certain position within the organization will change somewhat.
So I think really looking for each individual strength versus just trying to fit a person to a job, if that makes sense.
(34:52):
You know, I think that probably gets a little harder the bigger the company.
You know, you need to hire that data analyst. You know, level two, you know.
Um, thankfully, I've never been in that type of, uh, environment where we really can personalize to everyone's, uh, talents.
But so I think that's an important aspect of being a leader.
Um. And. Then the other thing that I found at Art South Dakota that we work hard as a team.
(35:18):
It's not just me. I mean, we all collectively work towards this. You know, we have obviously a mission.
We have this passion for the work. We do. We we have a mission statement.
We have a vision. You know, all the things a lot of nonprofits have.
We even have a, you know, we've set a, you know, a, um, a ten year kind of a long range plan.
We have certain strategies. And, um, but yeah, every year as we start to look at programs, as we look at our, um.
(35:47):
At our work, we try to define, um.
We try to define, obviously goals. We try to look at what do we want to do this year?
What do we want to change? What do we want to improve on? But for me, it's always been in I shouldn't say just for me.
I mean, I'm the leader of the team, but we really it's collective that we set goals that we know we can achieve.
(36:09):
Yeah. I think that's a maybe a philosophy.
There's probably other philosophies there, but I've always felt strongly about saying these are things that we feel we can actually get done.
Not trying to set goals that are the impossible, that always feel like you'll never get there.
And that's maybe another way to do things. You know, it's always the the dream, which I did, and I love that too.
(36:32):
But sometimes when you feel like you never achieve success. So for us, we try our best to set goals that we feel are manageable.
Um, but, you know, throughout the project, um, does that mean we hit a 100%?
No, we never have. I mean, there's never been a year we can look back and say, oh, we set these 20 goals for the year and we check all 20 off.
(36:56):
But it's never been we have 20 goals for the year and we'll inject two of them off either.
You know what I mean. We usually accomplishing jority of what we set out to do.
And I think that's an important function of leadership.
Um, if anything, for me, sometimes I feel is to pull back a little bit, you know,
because we have a team that's so passionate that they want to do everything.
(37:16):
And sometimes I feel like maybe my job is sometimes to say, wait, maybe we should wait on this one.
Let's let's table this for another time, because we're already kind of maxed out or,
you know, trying to recognize some of the capacity and bandwidth there.
Um, so and then, um.
You know, I think the other important. This is so cliche, but I'll say it anyways, is not being afraid to to to do any of the,
(37:43):
you know, to do all of the work, to do any of the work yourself as, but as the leader.
Um, you know, I've been.
In situations where you see that the leader of the organization feel like they are part of that, you get the sense they're not part of the team.
You know, they show up at a different time. Um, maybe they don't travel together.
Maybe, you know, and the team's finally at the end of whatever their big event or big meeting, the leader's not there celebrating.
(38:12):
You know, it seems like that was somewhat removed from the team where I feel like be in the team,
you know, I'm just one of the I'm just one of the staff members of this organization.
I happen to have the title executive director, but really, I carry this the same weight and have the,
I think, the same responsibilities that everyone else has. So, you know, show up and do the work.
(38:35):
Um, and don't be afraid to, to roll up your sleeves and climb up a ladder, you know, and,
you know, do some of that stuff where sometimes I feel like we've gotten in our head that,
oh, if you're the leader, you shouldn't be on the ladder,
or you shouldn't have to show up early with your dirty clothes and do the, the quote unquote dirty work.
Right. But that's I just don't think that's true. I think you should be willing to to do at all and be right alongside your team in that effort.
(39:02):
So, um, I really hope and the work that I've done that I've tried to show that that that,
you know, we're all on the same level there when it comes to some of the stuff that's,
I think primarily when it comes to some of the stuff that maybe isn't the most fun when it comes
to the longer hours or we've just done this huge event and we all want to just go home now,
(39:22):
or we all want to go over to the bar and have a drink and celebrate.
But guess what? We got two hours of work to clean everything up, you know?
Uh, so I think if we all need to feel like we're part of that, including including me, um.
So wearing all the hats, maybe that's a good way to say it. You know, being.
Yeah. And in the nonprofit world, it's pretty much how it works, especially the arts nonprofit.
(39:45):
They're usually small organizations, and every position wears many hats.
And that includes the executive director or the CEO. The leader has to wear a lot.
Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, the, the nonprofit space that you're in, you.
I feel like it. It's really it's crucial in every role I suppose.
But it's really important for the, the leader of that group to be able to read capacity and bandwidth and and because you're right,
(40:13):
oftentimes those teams really are so passion driven that like, oh, we can do this, we can do that, we can do this, we do that.
It's like, hold on. Yeah. Remember last this time last year when we were all exhausted because we did these events?
Let's try to like space it out a little bit more. Um, so I kind of I kind of ran into that too a little bit with, with my staff were like,
hey, maybe we can add another career fair, maybe we can add another year. It's like, hold on.
(40:36):
Uh, yeah, I've checked the words out a little bit. Yeah.
And I would add one more thing to that as I've just been thinking about Kevin is for me, anyway, I, I, um.
So. Um. I'm so thankful and amazed.
I should say maybe. Look at it that way. I'm amazed by our team and all that they bring to our work.
(41:00):
The passion, but also the skills. The number of hours they're willing to put in the energy.
You know, it never stops.
And so my hope, you know, when I'm, um, setting an agenda for a board meeting or we're doing a newsletter to talk about some of our work or something,
my hope is that we can make sure all of our team is included in that exposure in that, um.
(41:29):
In, in, in the, uh, sort of that the public view of what we do, you know, because one thing I,
I really believe, uh, in my work anyways, I don't want to be the quote unquote face of the organization.
Um, I really want us all to be the face of the organizer. I want the organization to be the face of the organization.
(41:51):
So, um, I think it's so important then for for us to lift every member of the team up, you know,
in their way to make sure the arts community, in our case, our constituents are seeing our full team,
seeing all of us, seeing seeing us as a collective,
not just me or not just our communications person or or in the case of fundraising, not just our fundraiser.
(42:13):
Right. But they're seeing really us as a team. And so.
You know, I, I think I, I tried my best to, you know, like have everyone and everyone attends our board meetings, for example.
You know, there's a lot of organizations that that's not the case, but we're always there.
Everyone speaks up at our board meetings, shares their work.
You know, as far as the staff, um, so I, I realize, you know, someday if you have an organization that has 50 people, that might not be possible.
(42:41):
But our case, I think is so good to to to build a really spotlight.
Everyone on the team as, as a contributor, as a, as a, uh, as a professional.
Well, yeah. And I love that, Jim. I think I really, really do appreciate that perspective.
And it, you know, has the added benefit to uh,
(43:02):
if you've got some staff that are earlier their professional career that gives you some experience of what a board meeting
looks like and what prepare your report for board meeting looks like and agenda creation and all that kind of stuff.
So mean. It's from the tactical perspective. It's it's good professional development too.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Good point. Well, great.
(43:23):
We've covered a lot of territory here, talking about teamwork and and music and such.
Uh, are there some sort of final thoughts that you have or any other any questions you've been thinking about to.
I think this is a, you know, it's. When you first asked me about this, I remember we were having coffee and I.
(43:44):
And you were mentioning what you're doing. And then this podcast, I thought, you know.
It's made me think a little bit about my role as the leader, you know, not that I didn't before, but, um.
I think this is a good acknowledgment for those of us who do serve in positions of leadership to, to take time to, to think about that.
(44:06):
Um. To to. Dedicate time to it, if you will.
Um, yeah. You know, we so often get in the weeds, we get into the minutia of, um, email.
You know, it was such a great example. And also, you've just spent four hours emails and then you, you know,
(44:27):
you look back at your week and you just think, I feel like all I did was sort of react.
Um, and that's that's natural. That's going to happen, you know, because we're all, uh, especially in the nonprofit world,
we're often, um, doing the, you know, the jobs of, of what should be 2 or 3 people.
Um, you know, we're often under, uh, under capacity. Um.
(44:51):
Well are understaffed for capacity for the for the work at hand. Um.
So and I think every position should do this because we're all leaders to a certain degree.
Right. That's the other maybe philosophy.
I think no matter what your title is, you're still an important leader of what you do for that organization, for your role.
You're a leader. But, you know, for those of us who truly have that kind of leadership title, I think, um,
(45:15):
I need to remind myself to stop once in a while and just really think critically about that and look back at our.
Okay, here's some of the the longer term goals we've set.
How are we doing on that to to sort of remove myself from my own spinning, you know, my own,
uh, you know, where I feel like maybe my, my time is not as disciplined as it should be.
(45:39):
And, you know, that relates back to music, too.
You know, sometimes you get done with two hours of practice and you're just like, well, what do they really work on?
You know, like, did I actually what was I trying to achieve with those,
those last few other than just to, to play my horn, you know, which is so important.
So I think that's also, you know, you need to have some strategy to, to improving your leadership, you know, to, to, to being a better leader.
(46:03):
Um, and, you know, I learned that when I was at Fresh Produce, I had the opportunity to go to some.
Some professional development sessions called growth coach. Some people may be familiar with it.
Here I'm talking it's designed for a, you know, a business owner.
Um, but one of the big takeaways from that, and I think the maybe the.
The reason you do girls coach, is that you need to learn to step away from working in your business and work on your business.
(46:33):
So instead of just working on the day to day mechanics, but to step back and think, okay, what are we trying to do?
What's the next thing? How are we going to improve what we're doing? Um, and well, I it's easy to get out of that practice.
You know, I'm just talking to you right now of thinking, man, I, I really need to just set some time aside for me to do that.
(46:53):
It's been a long time since I've really tried to be critical and evaluate.
Okay, how am I doing in this role?
You know. Um, so that's another thing.
As a leader, I think making sure you do take some time to step away from the day to day and think about a bigger picture and,
um, and then constantly be open to, to interacting with, with your team.
(47:14):
You know, that's the other thing that is so funny. This is sparking so many things that we think about are South Dakota.
But, you know, we have annual reviews per se.
You know, most safe are the the files, the human resource side of things.
But every day is an annual review in a way.
You know, anytime there's something that someone on the team wants to talk about, me or anybody, we just jump on the phone and talk about it.
(47:36):
This is this is a quote unquote open door office.
You know, there's never the wrong time to say, hey, I'm concerned about this, or I have this idea or I want to do this differently.
So I think being open to that, um, I think is good leadership and and being open to that on a, on a, on a daily basis as much as possible.
(47:57):
Yeah, absolutely. I think being able.
That's part of a high functioning team being able to really communicate problems openly and have clear roles and,
uh, be able to discuss projects and stuff like that. Yeah, I.
When I have an employee come to me concerned about something, I almost, um,
(48:18):
I won't say I enjoy it, but I am grateful that they feel like they can because it shows like,
okay, I think I'm building the right culture with my staff here, that that we can discuss these kinds of things.
So, um, yeah, it's really important point.
Yeah. That's a that is a culture thing. So I appreciate that description because and that's what hopefully we can create in our, in our teams.
(48:41):
Yeah. Great. Well Jim thanks so much.
It's it's fun to hear you talk a little bit more about your career.
Uh, I've, I've known you a little bit, um, mostly as a musician.
So it's just, uh, kind of nice to to learn a little bit more about your background, and I.
I know you're busy, guys, so I appreciate you taking the time to, uh, join in with the podcast and, uh, wish you all the best.
(49:05):
Hey. Yeah, thanks for asking me. It's been fun. Thank you for listening to Career Connections.
Please follow our podcast to hear our thoughts on other related topics and for topics,
suggestions or questions, you may contact me at Kevin Dot Fullerton at SD state that edu.
(49:25):
And for more information about my office, please go to careers that SD state that edu.
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