June 2, 2025 • 42 mins
All of us hold a range of comfort with different technologies. Some of us love to engage with new technologies while others continue to struggle with simple tasks such as converting a word document to a pdf. Alas, we don’t have a choice. Every kind of work utilizes different kinds of technology. From barbers to bankers, farmers to educators, technology is a key part of our world. Parts of our lives have improved because of technological advancements, but in my opinion, the use of technology can become a distraction.
This episode on technology, is the final episode in my series on the NACE Career Readiness Competencies. For this conversation, I catch up with a friend of mine to discuss technology as a competency. Catheryn Mancarti has been a friend for a very long time, and I find her to be such an impressive person. When I was trying to come up with a guest for this episode, I thought of her immediately. Much of her professional career has been specifically in tech, but I knew she would also offer up a great perspective.
As you listen to our conversation, consider this- what technologies do you use regularly. Do they add value, or detract? Do they improve your day at work and home? For example, I find file sharing platforms very helpful, yet to truly internalize the information, I still need to print the article and read it on paper away from a computer. What works for you? How can you push yourself in this realm?
Below are some of the links Catheryn mentions during the episode:
- Microsoft 365 & Power Platform Community - includes updates register for calls that you can join to see updates stay connected to the community, blogs, sample solutions and more.
- People I follow on LinkedIn for Microsoft Updates
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Career Connections. I'm your host, Kevin Fullerton.
This episode on technology is the final episode in my series on the career readiness competencies.
Technology as a topic encompasses so much. All of us hold a range of comfort with different technologies.
Some of us love to engage with new technologies, while others continue to struggle with simple tasks, such as converting a word document to a PDF.
(00:29):
Alas, we don't have a choice. Every kind of work utilizes different kinds of technology, from barbers to bankers and farmers to educators.
Technology is a key part of our world.
Parts of our lives have, of course, improved because of technological advancements, but in my opinion, the use of technology can become a distraction.
(00:51):
In this episode, I catch up with a friend of mine to discuss technology as a competency.
I met Catherine McCarty through my wife. She has been a friend of mine for a very long time, and I find her to be such an impressive person.
What? I was trying to come up with a guest for this episode. I thought of her right away.
Much of her professional career has been specifically in tech,
(01:13):
but I knew she would also offer up a great perspective on the use of technology as professionals.
As you listen to our conversation, consider this. What technologies do you use regularly?
Do they add value or detract? Do they improve your day at work and home?
(01:33):
For example, I find file sharing platforms very helpful.
Yet, to truly internalize the information, I still need to print the article and read it on paper away from my computer.
What works for you? How can you push yourself in this realm?
Well. Hello, Catherine, and thank you so much for joining me on the Career Connections podcast.
(01:57):
Yeah. Thank you. Kevin, it's a pleasure to be here.
So I really want to talk with you about technology as a career, as a concept for like a career readiness competency.
Uh, but before we get into that, I do want to explore your background and just kind of provide you just it kind of introduce yourself.
Um, describe how you got to where you are today and, uh, some of those kinds of kinds of ideas, topics.
(02:24):
Perfect. Um, I, um, currently, um, a consultant for it, and, um, I have been in it since 2011.
Um, but I didn't go to school for it.
I really went my degrees in fine arts, and in oh nine, the housing economy tanked and I lost my job and effectively looked around.
(02:48):
And there weren't a lot of jobs in the art field and design industry, which I was in.
So my husband and I looked at each other and said, you know, it's time to really let's change careers.
Let's take this opportunity while we're effectively unemployed.
Go get master's degrees and change careers.
So I ended up getting a master's in public administration, hoping to get a job in the government, actually.
(03:12):
Um, and a friend of mine who I went to school at George Mason on the East Coast said, hey, come here, I can get you a job in SharePoint.
And I was like, what is SharePoint effectively googling that?
Um, but it actually was a great platform for me in technology because of my design background.
(03:34):
I was able to go in and it's, uh, what you call Wysiwyg software.
So what you see is what you get. Um, and a lot of the role that I was in was interviewing customers, gathering requirements,
understanding what their needs are, where pain points are, and helping implement solutions utilizing SharePoint.
(03:54):
Um, so that was a really great stepping stone for me and throughout my career.
Then I started being a SharePoint analyst, where I was really interviewing clients and doing the work.
Um, then I moved from the Department of Interior, working for the government to the International Monetary Fund,
where I helped implement, uh, their global intranet solution, utilizing SharePoint as a business analyst role.
(04:16):
So I was partnering with the development teams to help implement the solution.
And my job was really interviewing the clients to ensure what do you want on your home page?
What do you want on the main intranet? What are the goals and, um, things we want to promote here?
Um. From there, my husband and I moved from Washington, D.C. to Portland,
and I moved into another business analyst role, but I was very much more hands on in this role, which is great.
(04:42):
I love the ability to not only understand, but in real time, partner with my clients and make changes,
make updates and give them those aha moments of like, oh, this is so cool, this is what technology can do for me.
Um, so from there I moved, um, changed companies and actually, um, it was the time where everything was moving on premise to online.
(05:06):
So I single handedly moved our SharePoint environment to Microsoft 365 at that point.
Office 365 and SharePoint went first.
Um, and I did it all myself. You know,
I figured out how to utilize migration tools and did the whole comms and met with all the business to ensure that their content got moved effectively.
(05:27):
And shortly thereafter, the other areas of it were like, well, pick me, we want to go, right?
So then I helped move Skype for Business Exchange or Outlook, and shortly thereafter we got acquired.
Um, so we were all in office 365.
And so then I spearheaded a migration because we got purchased into the,
(05:49):
the company that purchased us there, um, SharePoint and office 365 environment.
And from that point, I was um, they didn't have someone like me in this role.
So they promoted me to be a leader in the space.
And I actually was asked to move to Scotland to facilitate a huge, um, transformation program.
(06:09):
Um, so they were in really big acquisition mode.
So I helped effectively, uh, lead a Microsoft team opportunity.
Um, unfortunately, I had to go home because of Covid.
Um, but Scotland was awesome, you know, and, uh, you know, throughout my career, it's a lot of really interesting opportunities that just by saying,
(06:31):
yes, you know, like, okay, I'll raise my hand, I'll do this, I'll figure it out.
You know, um, I'm not shy. Um, if you know me, Kevin's known me for a long time, and I would say he probably is.
Definitely. I am one to, uh, you know, keep things moving forward.
So from there, I, um, stayed with that company for a few years, and then I moved into a VP position,
(06:52):
um, overseeing another organization that, uh, was doing Microsoft.
So within that space, I did a few migrations from different technologies into the Microsoft stack.
Um, for example, slack to teams, which, um, is painful for a lot of people that really love slack.
Um, then a lot of knowledge management. So and now, um, uh, the reason I left that company is my husband and I made the decision to move to Europe,
(07:19):
and, um, unfortunately, I wasn't able to stay with that company and work.
From abroad. So then this last year I moved to France and started my own consulting firm.
And I'm now working full time with another consulting firm based out of the Bay area.
Net woven. And, um, so every month is a different project with them.
(07:39):
So I'm currently working on two, um, transformations with, uh, Ted on migrations.
Um, so it's been, you know, really interesting.
And, um, the great thing about technology is if you, if you want something that's always changing, this is a great field to be in.
And so for me, it's been a perfect fit.
(08:00):
I still get to wear my design hat by implementing great intranets, making sure things look beautiful, um, understanding requirements and like what?
How customers think and feel. What are they how what's their experiences like online?
Um, as well do really cool things with helping people do their jobs better, you know, and with AI, it's changing all the time.
(08:24):
So it's it's a really exciting field to be in.
And I, you know, who would have thought back in oh nine, you know, like, this is where I'd be today, you know, and it's it's been a really great ride.
And um, I tell all my nieces and nephews, technology's a great place to be.
Oh, that's so great, Catherine.
Um, so just kind of thinking about some of our listeners might be, uh, in college, still freshly out of college young professionals.
(08:50):
And I think sometimes there's that perception that, um.
There's like a missing manual of information that adults have.
And can you speak to that?
Sort of like how did you just carve out your own path because you're one of the the more impressive people that I have in my life that I,
(09:11):
I witnessed like kind of reinvent yourself a few times, you know, and, and you always laid on your feet and you always try something new.
Um, so what, what drives that sort of curiosity and, and and that, uh, ethic.
Yeah. Um. So one of the biggest things I would say is use your network.
Um, some of the opportunities that have, uh, presented themselves to me have been from people I know.
(09:38):
Um, my first job in SharePoint was from a friend I met at college.
Um, my current role is I was part of a SharePoint user group, and they saw I was open to consulting agency on LinkedIn.
They reached out.
Um, you know, having that network and going on LinkedIn and talking about things that you're going through, hey, I'm looking for jobs.
(10:01):
I'm doing this. Um, if you're in school, do the internships.
Really like getting your foot in the door with some companies?
Um, and getting that little bit of experience is game changer.
I was in my first job when SharePoint was an internship.
I was in school still, and I was not getting paid well, but I got one year of experience under my belt,
(10:23):
and then I was able to transfer into, uh, full time position.
That was normal paying. And, you know, um, and I took a pay cut knowing that.
Right. I, you know, made sacrifices.
Um, the other thing that's really worked for me is I've not been shy on making really big life changes.
(10:45):
Um, you know, when my husband and I, we both lost her job the same day we worked for the same firm.
Um, back in oh nine. Um, I literally applied for a thousand jobs in interior design and didn't get a single call back.
You know, but, um, I talked to my network and my girlfriends, like, look,
the unemployment rate in Washington, D.C., is 3%, and I moved out there and had a job in two weeks.
(11:08):
Um, making not being afraid to make really hard moves, um, has been beneficial for me.
You know, and Michael and I, my husband, have, you know, been great partners for each other.
And we've together made those moves, you know, and it's not always fun.
You know, I mean, you moving away from your family and friends and uprooting your life is really hard.
(11:31):
But gaining that, I mean, those couple of years in Washington, D.C., we would trade those for the world, right?
What brought us to where we are now, you know?
And, um, the other thing is, if you're just starting out, if you go look at jobs, I mean, remote jobs are big now.
So don't be shy on looking not just where you're at.
(11:52):
Look, you can look all over the US, all over the globe.
And if you get that experience, even if it's like, hey, I'm going to start a I help desk crawl, you know, get that experience and be a yes person.
Raise your hand. I want to learn more. I want to learn more. Um, and those are the things that have really helped me.
(12:12):
And as a mentor to different people in my organizations, the people that you see are going above and beyond.
Those are the people you always want to promote. Um, you know, like I look at my teams in the past, you know, the people that, you know,
did the extra, uh, stayed up late, you know, raised their hand and said, I want to learn more.
(12:32):
Hey, I don't know how to do this, but brought me solutions. Those are the people that really, really succeed.
And, you know, you see them throughout their careers doing more and more all the time.
The way you talk about technology, I think, is a really fun perspective to listen to as well,
because you talk more about the it seems like the human side or the relational side of trying to improve people's work experience in, in less sort of.
(13:02):
Uh, kind of in a. Yeah. Right. Right. Just kind of isolated in that in and off of, you know, writing code, you know.
Um, so technology as a, as a field and arena is a very broad space, so.
Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of people you could be like me, right?
(13:22):
I'm a person that I like being in front of people.
I like talking to people. I'm not I do not code.
Still, you know, after all this time, um, if I need to, I asked ChatGPT to do it for me.
Um, you know, I mean, I, I'm definitely a front of the house type person, right?
And the great thing about it is you have all these roles, right?
(13:45):
It's not just the typical it. You can be a person like me that helps implement cool solutions, right?
Utilize being a business analyst. Right. That's a great term to know for somebody that's more like me.
Um, you're dealing with change management, different things along those lines.
(14:05):
But you can also be the back of the house person where you're partnering with people like me,
and you don't necessarily have to talk to the business, but you have to bring the solutions forward to this person.
So the I mean, whatever you want, uh, there's a space for you in technology,
which is really cool with the different technology platforms that you've, uh, worked with.
(14:28):
How heavily influenced your career? I mean, so when I'm primarily work in the Microsoft stack, um, I had one job where I did Microsoft and Google.
Um, but my baby is really Microsoft.
And so, um, talking about their evolution, I mean, when I started, everything was on premise, you know, I mean,
(14:50):
if you had to make, you know, the IT role was much different because you were spending nights and weekends during updates.
Um, you know, it's it was you had to really plan any changes that came into place where in 2015,
2013 to 15 is when, you know, the cloud started occurring.
Right. And as soon as everything went online, the IT role really shifted, uh, because Microsoft manages all that effectively.
(15:19):
Right? So you now have your nights and weekends back, different things along those lines.
Unless you're doing a significant migration like a tenant migration, Microsoft does a lot of the stuff for you.
So your role as an administrator has even changed significantly, because those things you used to do to make updates,
um, you know, that's all happening for you by Microsoft, right?
(15:41):
And by all these other tools. Um, and, uh, you know, even the way they drip feed information and updates now is so much different,
like you'd get once a month or once a quarter updates, where now, you know, you get updates on a daily basis, right?
I mean, I'll be doing a training where I did a training the day before and I roll into teams and all of a sudden,
(16:05):
hey, this new features available, I'm like on the fly, having to adjust, right and be like, okay, this is new.
So give me a moment. Right.
Uh, and, you know, you just have to not be afraid of saying, I don't know, like, this is not something like, I haven't seen this before.
Right. Um, so understanding and and then now with the AI thing, it's, I mean, effectively, I'm on camera right now, and Kevin's going to see this,
(16:32):
but, um, the technology or the Industrial revolution was, you know, kind of it was a change that was kind of 45 degree angle, right.
Where. And then once you added the technology revolution, that went up quite a lot.
Well, the AI revolution is literally a hockey stick. So our jobs are going to change.
(16:52):
And, you know, all the stuff with AI, I mean, it's infiltrating everything, right?
I mean, I when I get up in the morning, I log in.
I asked copilot, can you give me a status of my emails overnight?
Right. I'm in France. I things happen during the daytime in the U.S. that are I'm sleeping effectively.
Right. Um, I get meeting exports, right?
(17:14):
I'm not having to take meeting notes as a project manager.
Now, um, you know, there's all these things just day to day that are happening, which are really cool, but it's you're going to have to adapt.
Right. And the human element. I can't replace that.
Right. So keeping that human element as much as you can, but embracing it, it's going to be critical for everyone effectively.
(17:39):
Right. And if you don't embrace it and start utilizing it, I mean, one of my bosses said, so I need to start every day like the things that I do.
I need to start a copilot, the Microsoft AI solution, and ask it to do it first before I do it by myself.
Right. And just, you know, use it as your administrator.
Um, and shift that thinking. Right. It's a it's a big shift, you know, and we all have little eyes on our pocket with Siri.
(18:06):
You know, she's terrible, but, um. But, you know, I mean, it's more and more it's going to be in every day and everything.
So, um, it'll be an exciting, scary, uh, interesting chapter effectively with AI now and seeing where that goes.
Yeah. You know, it's I'm thinking about our word cloud, uh, around the subject of technology,
(18:28):
like the word change is, is a large font right there, right in the center of it.
Right? Yeah. Um, how do you learn new technology platforms?
Like what? What are your tips for that? Yeah.
So for me, um, in the Microsoft stack, I, uh, they're, they have like, biweekly calls that you can attend.
Um, and you don't have to be a person that's in a consulting firm.
(18:52):
You can go attend these. You can register online and, um, send them.
Kevin, I'll send you some links for those. Um, I follow a lot of people on LinkedIn.
Right. So I'm getting drip fed updates from like, the Microsoft leaders effectively across the organization.
Um, in Microsoft, they have a message center that effectively tells you everything that's happening at any time in the coming future,
(19:19):
along with their roadmap.
Um, so I have a once a week on my calendar where I go review the message center, what's happening, what's coming down the pipeline.
Um, and then Microsoft is getting better about, hey, this new feature was released.
I don't just click the X, I actually try to read it and make sure to see, like, what's happening.
Um, and then I read a few technology papers, unfollow a few things on, you know, social media.
(19:45):
But, um, it's hard because so much is happening so quickly, you know?
Um, but I just I'm not shy. I'll get in and, like, if I see a new feature, I'll try it out and, um, uh,
but those are the big ones for me is really staying on top of those type of things.
And don't be afraid of making mistakes. You know, if, like, there's a new feature, create, uh,
(20:08):
SharePoint site that's a demo SharePoint site for you and give it a try, you know, and see how it goes with ChatGPT.
You know, I'm always fine tuning, like my props and different things like that.
Um, and, you know, making sure that, uh, you know, you're always a work in progress, right?
Every day is a school day. Effectively is a term I love to use.
(20:29):
And, um, you know, as long as you're willing to keep learning and make mistakes and ask for help when you need it.
And I think that's, you know, being real is the best thing you can do for yourself.
Right? Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I, I hear a lot of, um, anxiety and sort of angst talk around change in technology,
(20:54):
but I think you're kind of what you're, you're sort of teasing out of this,
this conversation too, is this idea of like playing with it, playing with new technology and taking ways with anxiety about it.
I think action tends to diminish anxiety. And so if we can play with ChatGPT and see what it does or absolutely right with copilot,
(21:15):
maybe they was terrible, maybe not, then you have an informed opinion about it.
Um. Yeah. And, you know, for my organizations, when I was an FTE or full time employee,
I was the leader of a Yammer or Viva engaged community that I would put out tips and tricks on Microsoft.
Right. Like one minute, uh, digests that somebody could consume.
(21:38):
And, I mean, I can't tell you how many calls I'm in.
Um, you know, as an on one the other day with my friends and they're like, why do you look so good?
I was like, well, it's the filtering. And they had no idea. You know, it's like even little things like that, right?
You know, it's. And just don't be shy on talking about what you know and like, what you learned.
And I mean, like, I'm always on camera. I share my screen a lot, you know, like, be a promoter of positive things about the technologies, right?
(22:08):
I mean, no, technology is perfect, right?
You know, so I really try to make sure that as I'm dealing with change management, I'm always promoting as much as I can.
Right. And yeah, whatever I can do to help those end users through processes, you know, I, I, I change management.
I just really love that. And I like being a part of that for organizations.
(22:31):
And anything I could do to help people do better with technology, I'm a really big fan of.
And that is still needed, I think. Um, the sort of Buddhist principle of non-attachment comes into play when we're talking about change management.
Yeah. I find myself struggle once in a while.
Um, my previous role, I was on a campus that had a lot of Apple products, so I was used to a MacBook and I.
(22:57):
This campus, it's it's, uh, it's PC. So I'm still trying to, you know, sometimes the logic of that, I don't really get right away.
Um, so some of that idea to, like, how do you, um.
Practice that idea of not being attached to what? You're your favorite.
You know, your favorite app or your favorite system or. It's hard, right?
(23:20):
Because we're creatures of habit, right? And I mean, like, if you were to ask me, don't hate me, people, but I if you were to say, okay,
Katherine, you're going to switch your iPhone to an Android, I would probably want to jump off a bridge.
Right? Like, I have had many years of understanding this.
I know how it works. I have muscle memory in this regard. Right.
And I think that, you know, we, you know, we have to give ourselves grace because, you know, before technology,
(23:47):
even when we were younger, you know, Kevin, when we met, you know, it wasn't like it is now.
And we've effectively increased the amount we produce, but we haven't given ourselves any break.
Unlike, hey, you get, instead of working eight hours, you're working six, you know, you're working eight hours.
Plus, you know, with the help of technology, right?
So, um, having that shift effectively, you know,
(24:12):
and giving yourself a break and taking like put time on your calendar to learn the other things, you know,
and I think that's the best thing you can do and be curious, you know, I mean, you know, if you keep hitting the same wall, it's not going to change.
You need to change in order to like, learn that new thing.
(24:33):
Right. And, uh, but that's a hard one, you know, because, I mean, I'm like everyone else, right?
I work full time. So the idea of, like, taking an hour of my day to, like, figure out something.
I have no idea what I'm doing. That's really hard, you know.
And that's a hard pill to swallow because, like, I don't have the time, right?
So, um, um, let's, you know, but give yourself grace and, you know, keep learning,
(24:58):
you know, I mean, try to take some time and there's a lot of great and you strategy.
Right? I mean, I know I've in a lot of cases I'm like, I don't know how to do this, but you know, tell me and it'll it'll tell you and it'll show you.
And I mean, I'm in France rewiring electrical and I have ChatGPT on, like,
(25:19):
my speaker phone and I'm saying, okay, there's a yellow wire, a blue wire and a red wire.
What do I do? And it'll walk me through it. Right? You know, and so you have a lot of cool things with, you know, I mean, it's a real thing.
Yeah. And I'll post pictures and, you know, so, I mean, Kevin, next time you run into a problem with your windows device,
(25:39):
though, to ChatGPT and say, how would I have done this on my Mac and help me figure it out on windows?
You know, so there's a lot of cool things out there to help with that.
Yeah. Thank. Well thanks for that. That tip there. Yeah for sure.
So. You mentioned I use, you know, pretty specifically, you know, talking about using copilot.
(26:00):
Uh ChatGPT. Um. For you specifically with like.
What are what are some challenges with using AI and different AI platforms?
So the biggest thing with AI is you want to trust where it's coming from, right?
Like, uh, Deep SEQ was just released. This is a China backed one or a Chinese backed one.
(26:21):
I would wait till you hear some of the real feedback on what that looks like.
Um, because, you know, we don't know where the data is being stored, different things like that.
I use ChatGPT like it's my assistant. Right.
So I have a paid version and I have gone in and, uh, made sure that the security settings are locked down.
(26:41):
Um, you know, this is data about you. You're having conversations, you know, so having that security wrapper is very important with any one of these,
um, that you use and make sure it's reputable. Um, you know, a lot of them will use the back end of ChatGPT or deep seek and surface.
That is something else. Just make sure you're like, do a quick Google search.
(27:03):
Is this a legitimate platform? You know, how secure is this?
Uh, do do the homework, right?
Because that, you know, like I've done my entire visa, I review my taxes, you know, all this stuff on there.
And, you know, if that were to have a problem, you know, that would be a big deal.
So really make sure that it's secure, um, for Microsoft and, um, for Google.
(27:29):
Right. They're integrated into those platforms and those are very safe.
Right. You know, you're not they're keeping the data within the tenants effectively.
Um, so those you can really be secure with.
Um, and Microsoft just released if you're a Microsoft person, they released Copilot chat,
which is free for everybody that has a license, which is great. So you can utilize ChatGPT effectively.
(27:55):
Um, now just be aware your IT people have access and they can run controls to see if you're doing anything nefarious.
So just, you know, make sure you're being above ground with that.
But I mean, I use chat to be on a daily basis effectively, you know, and I mean,
um, I've used it, it did my entire visa application and, um, my renewal and I.
(28:19):
Taking it from, you know, they've written it in both English and French.
Um, it's helped me get a French driver's license.
Um, for my business, I keep my resume updated.
I add what projects I'm working on.
So whenever I need a new resume, I just say, hey, we'd give me the newest resume, keeping in mind that I have, you know, this different stuff.
(28:43):
And really, the key with ChatGPT is go take a prompt class, you know, like store the prompts that work really well for you.
Um, don't be afraid of making mistakes and you can be nice to it.
But also say, hey, this isn't what I was expecting, right? You know, like, you can fine tune it and address it.
And if it's really like, if it's not working out the results that you want, close it and start a new one, you know, um, a new chat.
(29:10):
But, um, that prompting, like the best one I can say is the act, as, you know, like act as a communication specialist,
act as a recruiter, act as, you know, a immigration specialist in France, right?
You know, act as that. Just telling you to act as, um, you can even say, act as a prompt engineer, right?
(29:34):
And say like, help me draft prompts, um, to help me do this.
Uh, that is a really great tool to utilize.
Um, and then just, you know, it's your assistant effectively.
So how can you use your assistant?
I mean, last weekend I went to Paris with my mom, so I said, create an itinerary for me, you know, and these are the things I like to do.
(29:54):
Um, and. Yeah, you know. So, um, it's really, you know, it's fascinating, but be secure.
Be safe. You know, don't do anything. You know, that's your information and your identity.
So, you know, if you're going as far as I'm going to pay for it and make sure your security properties are, are on.
(30:16):
So, um, yeah, thanks for those specific comments and, and ideas.
I think that that can be really helpful. And, and illustrating the different sort of power that these tools have.
One of the things that we're seeing in, in, in my office is students will come in, uh, wanting us to review a cover letter that they clearly just had.
(30:38):
I write for them and. That's one of the things that sort of the downside to AI is, is people relying on on it too much.
Um, what do you think about that? I think we're going to have to adapt, right?
I mean, effectively, it may be a horse and cart situation, right?
Like, we've always had to learn how to ride appropriately, learn how to do different things.
(31:04):
I mean, if you can put in your entire work history and have I draft something that really gives a really good overview, why spend hours?
I mean, like going back to my example, I applied for a thousand jobs, right?
And each one of those had to have a cover letter. And each one had to be unique for the job.
(31:25):
Right. That's a lot of time. And it doesn't mean I didn't want any one of those jobs, right.
By taking that time to utilize a tool that you have to help in that regard.
Um. I also asked it to use my voice as much as possible.
Um, so it sounds like me, right?
(31:45):
And anything that it puts out, I adjust it, I fine tune it, and then I say, hey, here's my final version and I re upload it to it.
Um, but I think for school, I mean, it's a whole I mean, think about when we were in school, I mean, how many papers did we write?
You know, I mean, no, I think really it's about how to use it effectively.
(32:07):
Right. And how are we going to instill critical thinking in this younger generation where they're not having to write papers like we did?
And how are we going to change that? Um, because I think that's going to be the biggest shift, right?
It's because it's not going away. Right. And kids are going to use it.
They're going to. So instead of like, okay, well here you need to take a prompt class.
(32:33):
You need to do the rest ensure. But you know, how are we going to.
Ensure safety in this space, right. That what you're seeing is legitimate.
A lot of times I'll get a response from ChatGPT and I'm like, this doesn't seem right.
And it's like, oh yeah, you're right. You know, like so knowing as well, like when things aren't right and wrong.
(32:55):
Um, but I don't know, Kevin. I mean, I think that's a really tough nut to crack.
And, you know, I was in, uh, women's group recently, and one of the women was a teacher,
and she said everyone's paper just clearly was ChatGPT written, you know, and she said, you know, and how are we?
Uh, that changes my entire English teaching ability, right?
(33:18):
So I don't know. What do you think? Well, I think.
Kind of what you said. What you said where. You know, make sure it's in your voice, you know?
You still have to engage with this. Like the cover letter is at the point.
Communicating your experience and your interests in that specific job is the point.
And so I think we as educators need to be really clear on what the point of what we're asking seems to do.
(33:45):
Yeah. You know, and then we can use AI, right? Like I think it does a good.
It allows people to get over that anxiety of the blank page, you know, like an it's easier to respond as something than create sometimes.
So if you were looking at something okay great. But but this student clearly doesn't look like the type of person that says the word behoove.
You know, like like we know you did not write that.
(34:08):
Yeah. Uh, so, yeah, I think it's just like anything there's there's good.
We have to figure out how to balance out the ethical use in that.
But I think it is a process that we have to be active in.
We can't just raise your hands and then ban it from a class or something, you know?
Well. And again it's that hockey stick, right. So it is going to grow really fast.
(34:33):
And I'm you think about a year and a half ago it wasn't year right.
And look how much it's integrated into our societies now.
Yeah yeah for sure. The other one uh prompt I would say is ask me any follow up questions.
Right. Like while you're talking, you know, like I ask it to ask me questions like,
(34:54):
what else do you need me to tell you what you know and be sure to do that.
So you get that two way dialect. Yeah, yeah for sure.
That's good. That's a good call. I think I we've covered some territory here with, with this idea of technology just kind of scratching the surface.
Um, I kind of want to start wrapping up our conversation just back to how you started.
(35:20):
Just. This idea that.
The way I see it anyway, technology is there to solve human problems.
And I think too often we let the technology drive our energy and our thinking.
I think it gets gets flipped. And I like the way you talk about technology as like the human side of it.
(35:42):
So, um, what do you think about that kind of balance and sort of struggle?
Well, I think a lot of times when I'm implementing a solution,
one of the key things is we want to make sure it's a business led solution, not an it led solution.
Um, and having that mind shift.
Right. Like we're not doing this just to do it. We're doing this because there's an actual need, right?
(36:08):
Um, tenant migration aside. Right. But a lot of the other things is, you know,
and having that person that's a business analyst to get with the business and really understand where their pain points are,
where their problems are, and not solutions and the technology.
So as I think about any project, I really think about it holistically and get those business requirements,
(36:34):
make sure it's business driven versus IT driven.
And what problem are we trying to solve? And then the technology should come forward with what the right solution is versus saying, okay,
we're implementing this and going to fix XYZ without really understanding what those requirements are for.
So having that approach really is helpful.
(36:57):
Um, I love having champions across the business as part of my change management.
So you have people that are just again IT speakers, right?
Because people are going to go to their peers before they're going to go to it to complain or say, I have I'm having a challenge here.
Um, I don't understand something. Right. Um, so having the that level in the business is really critical with any change management.
(37:22):
Um. Because again, people people don't like to ask questions, right?
We're all busy. Like they're not going to read. So it's easier to ask your friend, right?
So, um, you know, having those type of integrations is really beneficial.
Wonderful. Well, thanks so much for sharing your insights.
Just a just a taste of your background and experience.
(37:45):
Uh, before we wrap, are there some final sort of things you want to share about, uh, your life and the technology in the technology career?
I would just say, you know, for technology, I love what I do.
Um, I mean, it's it's a field that is very interesting.
It's, um, every day is different. And, you know, if you like variety and you want to have a career that, I mean, I get paid really well.
(38:14):
I am able like, I live in another country and I'm able to be on a call with somebody from South Dakota, from France.
Right. You know, I mean, it really opens doors to, you know, you can live anywhere and work anywhere,
which is really nice, where a lot of roles, you can't necessarily do that.
Now there is a big drive back to the office.
(38:35):
But I mean, like my consulting company I work with, we have clients all over the U.S., all over the world, right?
And my last handful of jobs, I had employees.
I was in Portland, Oregon, and not another employee lived near me.
Um, so it really allows, you know, that global reach.
I mean, I've had employees and Australia, uh, Manila, uh, India, uh, you know, the UK and, you know, having that, uh,
(39:05):
global reach and global, you know, just understanding new people, different cultures has been really eye opening to me and really amazing.
Um, and, you know, with technology, you want, like, you want to wear a hat that every day is a school day, right?
You know, like, there's going to be days that are really hard because you don't know what's going on.
(39:25):
But as long as you're willing to, like, lift up the word, make a mistake, learn from your mistakes, you know, I mean, it's a it's a great field.
And, um, you know, uh, anybody that will listen to me, I, I can't recommend it enough, you know, I mean, it's and again, there's a role for everybody,
you know, I mean, if you're a social butterfly like me to the person that is not right that I'm partnering with, like, okay, what do you mean?
(39:52):
Like, you know, uh, and so, you know, project managers, business analyst, then the entire IT people and it's not just Microsoft.
I mean, you look at every application that you have at your school, um, you know,
workday, Salesforce, you know, I mean, it's technologies and everything.
So, um, you know, and they're big and little companies.
(40:14):
And so really, you know, what field do you want to be in and what kind of experience do you want?
You know, um, like I like a big company because I like the global reach and different opportunities.
Right. Where, you know, I've had employees that really like a small company because they want to know everyone.
Right? Um, and in those type of companies, you wear a lot of hats, um, which is also very cool, you know.
(40:37):
So, um, so, yeah, just don't be afraid of say yes every time.
I mean, if someone wants to move you to Scotland for an opportunity, why not?
You know, and I mean those, um.
Hey, let's SharePoint. Okay, I'll Google it. Let me look.
Okay. Yeah. Yes, sure. I'll figure it out. You know, um, but don't be shy.
(41:00):
And, you know, um, I'll share my LinkedIn if people have questions, you know, like, I'm really happy to answer any questions.
And, um, it's, you know, it's it's a great field.
And I just love what I do. And, you know, I would change it for anything.
And it's been a great, great, great ride. Wonderful.
Well, a lot of lots of good comments there. Catherine. Thank thank you so much and thanks again for joining me on on career connections.
(41:26):
Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode.
I hope you understand why I'm so impressed with Catherine.
We covered a lot of territory in this episode, and I hope what we discussed has you reflecting on your own approach to technology and your career.
(41:47):
If you are new to this podcast, please peruse the other episodes and for topics,
suggestions and questions please contact me at Kevin Not Fullerton XD.
State that Edu.
[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]Welcome to Career Connections. I'm your host, Kevin Fullerton.
This episode on technology is the final episode in my series on the career readiness competencies.
Technology as a topic encompasses so much. All of us hold a range of comfort with different technologies.
Some of us love to engage with new technologies, while others continue to struggle with simple tasks, such as converting a word document to a PDF.
(00:29):
Alas, we don't have a choice. Every kind of work utilizes different kinds of technology, from barbers to bankers and farmers to educators.
Technology is a key part of our world.
Parts of our lives have, of course, improved because of technological advancements, but in my opinion, the use of technology can become a distraction.
(00:51):
In this episode, I catch up with a friend of mine to discuss technology as a competency.
I met Catherine McCarty through my wife. She has been a friend of mine for a very long time, and I find her to be such an impressive person.
What? I was trying to come up with a guest for this episode. I thought of her right away.
Much of her professional career has been specifically in tech,
(01:13):
but I knew she would also offer up a great perspective on the use of technology as professionals.
As you listen to our conversation, consider this. What technologies do you use regularly?
Do they add value or detract? Do they improve your day at work and home?
(01:33):
For example, I find file sharing platforms very helpful.
Yet, to truly internalize the information, I still need to print the article and read it on paper away from my computer.
What works for you? How can you push yourself in this realm?
Well. Hello, Catherine, and thank you so much for joining me on the Career Connections podcast.
(01:57):
Yeah. Thank you. Kevin, it's a pleasure to be here.
So I really want to talk with you about technology as a career, as a concept for like a career readiness competency.
Uh, but before we get into that, I do want to explore your background and just kind of provide you just it kind of introduce yourself.
Um, describe how you got to where you are today and, uh, some of those kinds of kinds of ideas, topics.
(02:24):
Perfect. Um, I, um, currently, um, a consultant for it, and, um, I have been in it since 2011.
Um, but I didn't go to school for it.
I really went my degrees in fine arts, and in oh nine, the housing economy tanked and I lost my job and effectively looked around.
(02:48):
And there weren't a lot of jobs in the art field and design industry, which I was in.
So my husband and I looked at each other and said, you know, it's time to really let's change careers.
Let's take this opportunity while we're effectively unemployed.
Go get master's degrees and change careers.
So I ended up getting a master's in public administration, hoping to get a job in the government, actually.
(03:12):
Um, and a friend of mine who I went to school at George Mason on the East Coast said, hey, come here, I can get you a job in SharePoint.
And I was like, what is SharePoint effectively googling that?
Um, but it actually was a great platform for me in technology because of my design background.
(03:34):
I was able to go in and it's, uh, what you call Wysiwyg software.
So what you see is what you get. Um, and a lot of the role that I was in was interviewing customers, gathering requirements,
understanding what their needs are, where pain points are, and helping implement solutions utilizing SharePoint.
(03:54):
Um, so that was a really great stepping stone for me and throughout my career.
Then I started being a SharePoint analyst, where I was really interviewing clients and doing the work.
Um, then I moved from the Department of Interior, working for the government to the International Monetary Fund,
where I helped implement, uh, their global intranet solution, utilizing SharePoint as a business analyst role.
(04:16):
So I was partnering with the development teams to help implement the solution.
And my job was really interviewing the clients to ensure what do you want on your home page?
What do you want on the main intranet? What are the goals and, um, things we want to promote here?
Um. From there, my husband and I moved from Washington, D.C. to Portland,
and I moved into another business analyst role, but I was very much more hands on in this role, which is great.
(04:42):
I love the ability to not only understand, but in real time, partner with my clients and make changes,
make updates and give them those aha moments of like, oh, this is so cool, this is what technology can do for me.
Um, so from there I moved, um, changed companies and actually, um, it was the time where everything was moving on premise to online.
(05:06):
So I single handedly moved our SharePoint environment to Microsoft 365 at that point.
Office 365 and SharePoint went first.
Um, and I did it all myself. You know,
I figured out how to utilize migration tools and did the whole comms and met with all the business to ensure that their content got moved effectively.
(05:27):
And shortly thereafter, the other areas of it were like, well, pick me, we want to go, right?
So then I helped move Skype for Business Exchange or Outlook, and shortly thereafter we got acquired.
Um, so we were all in office 365.
And so then I spearheaded a migration because we got purchased into the,
(05:49):
the company that purchased us there, um, SharePoint and office 365 environment.
And from that point, I was um, they didn't have someone like me in this role.
So they promoted me to be a leader in the space.
And I actually was asked to move to Scotland to facilitate a huge, um, transformation program.
(06:09):
Um, so they were in really big acquisition mode.
So I helped effectively, uh, lead a Microsoft team opportunity.
Um, unfortunately, I had to go home because of Covid.
Um, but Scotland was awesome, you know, and, uh, you know, throughout my career, it's a lot of really interesting opportunities that just by saying,
(06:31):
yes, you know, like, okay, I'll raise my hand, I'll do this, I'll figure it out.
You know, um, I'm not shy. Um, if you know me, Kevin's known me for a long time, and I would say he probably is.
Definitely. I am one to, uh, you know, keep things moving forward.
So from there, I, um, stayed with that company for a few years, and then I moved into a VP position,
(06:52):
um, overseeing another organization that, uh, was doing Microsoft.
So within that space, I did a few migrations from different technologies into the Microsoft stack.
Um, for example, slack to teams, which, um, is painful for a lot of people that really love slack.
Um, then a lot of knowledge management. So and now, um, uh, the reason I left that company is my husband and I made the decision to move to Europe,
(07:19):
and, um, unfortunately, I wasn't able to stay with that company and work.
From abroad. So then this last year I moved to France and started my own consulting firm.
And I'm now working full time with another consulting firm based out of the Bay area.
Net woven. And, um, so every month is a different project with them.
(07:39):
So I'm currently working on two, um, transformations with, uh, Ted on migrations.
Um, so it's been, you know, really interesting.
And, um, the great thing about technology is if you, if you want something that's always changing, this is a great field to be in.
And so for me, it's been a perfect fit.
(08:00):
I still get to wear my design hat by implementing great intranets, making sure things look beautiful, um, understanding requirements and like what?
How customers think and feel. What are they how what's their experiences like online?
Um, as well do really cool things with helping people do their jobs better, you know, and with AI, it's changing all the time.
(08:24):
So it's it's a really exciting field to be in.
And I, you know, who would have thought back in oh nine, you know, like, this is where I'd be today, you know, and it's it's been a really great ride.
And um, I tell all my nieces and nephews, technology's a great place to be.
Oh, that's so great, Catherine.
Um, so just kind of thinking about some of our listeners might be, uh, in college, still freshly out of college young professionals.
(08:50):
And I think sometimes there's that perception that, um.
There's like a missing manual of information that adults have.
And can you speak to that?
Sort of like how did you just carve out your own path because you're one of the the more impressive people that I have in my life that I,
(09:11):
I witnessed like kind of reinvent yourself a few times, you know, and, and you always laid on your feet and you always try something new.
Um, so what, what drives that sort of curiosity and, and and that, uh, ethic.
Yeah. Um. So one of the biggest things I would say is use your network.
Um, some of the opportunities that have, uh, presented themselves to me have been from people I know.
(09:38):
Um, my first job in SharePoint was from a friend I met at college.
Um, my current role is I was part of a SharePoint user group, and they saw I was open to consulting agency on LinkedIn.
They reached out.
Um, you know, having that network and going on LinkedIn and talking about things that you're going through, hey, I'm looking for jobs.
(10:01):
I'm doing this. Um, if you're in school, do the internships.
Really like getting your foot in the door with some companies?
Um, and getting that little bit of experience is game changer.
I was in my first job when SharePoint was an internship.
I was in school still, and I was not getting paid well, but I got one year of experience under my belt,
(10:23):
and then I was able to transfer into, uh, full time position.
That was normal paying. And, you know, um, and I took a pay cut knowing that.
Right. I, you know, made sacrifices.
Um, the other thing that's really worked for me is I've not been shy on making really big life changes.
(10:45):
Um, you know, when my husband and I, we both lost her job the same day we worked for the same firm.
Um, back in oh nine. Um, I literally applied for a thousand jobs in interior design and didn't get a single call back.
You know, but, um, I talked to my network and my girlfriends, like, look,
the unemployment rate in Washington, D.C., is 3%, and I moved out there and had a job in two weeks.
(11:08):
Um, making not being afraid to make really hard moves, um, has been beneficial for me.
You know, and Michael and I, my husband, have, you know, been great partners for each other.
And we've together made those moves, you know, and it's not always fun.
You know, I mean, you moving away from your family and friends and uprooting your life is really hard.
(11:31):
But gaining that, I mean, those couple of years in Washington, D.C., we would trade those for the world, right?
What brought us to where we are now, you know?
And, um, the other thing is, if you're just starting out, if you go look at jobs, I mean, remote jobs are big now.
So don't be shy on looking not just where you're at.
(11:52):
Look, you can look all over the US, all over the globe.
And if you get that experience, even if it's like, hey, I'm going to start a I help desk crawl, you know, get that experience and be a yes person.
Raise your hand. I want to learn more. I want to learn more. Um, and those are the things that have really helped me.
(12:12):
And as a mentor to different people in my organizations, the people that you see are going above and beyond.
Those are the people you always want to promote. Um, you know, like I look at my teams in the past, you know, the people that, you know,
did the extra, uh, stayed up late, you know, raised their hand and said, I want to learn more.
(12:32):
Hey, I don't know how to do this, but brought me solutions. Those are the people that really, really succeed.
And, you know, you see them throughout their careers doing more and more all the time.
The way you talk about technology, I think, is a really fun perspective to listen to as well,
because you talk more about the it seems like the human side or the relational side of trying to improve people's work experience in, in less sort of.
(13:02):
Uh, kind of in a. Yeah. Right. Right. Just kind of isolated in that in and off of, you know, writing code, you know.
Um, so technology as a, as a field and arena is a very broad space, so.
Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot of people you could be like me, right?
(13:22):
I'm a person that I like being in front of people.
I like talking to people. I'm not I do not code.
Still, you know, after all this time, um, if I need to, I asked ChatGPT to do it for me.
Um, you know, I mean, I, I'm definitely a front of the house type person, right?
And the great thing about it is you have all these roles, right?
(13:45):
It's not just the typical it. You can be a person like me that helps implement cool solutions, right?
Utilize being a business analyst. Right. That's a great term to know for somebody that's more like me.
Um, you're dealing with change management, different things along those lines.
(14:05):
But you can also be the back of the house person where you're partnering with people like me,
and you don't necessarily have to talk to the business, but you have to bring the solutions forward to this person.
So the I mean, whatever you want, uh, there's a space for you in technology,
which is really cool with the different technology platforms that you've, uh, worked with.
(14:28):
How heavily influenced your career? I mean, so when I'm primarily work in the Microsoft stack, um, I had one job where I did Microsoft and Google.
Um, but my baby is really Microsoft.
And so, um, talking about their evolution, I mean, when I started, everything was on premise, you know, I mean,
(14:50):
if you had to make, you know, the IT role was much different because you were spending nights and weekends during updates.
Um, you know, it's it was you had to really plan any changes that came into place where in 2015,
2013 to 15 is when, you know, the cloud started occurring.
Right. And as soon as everything went online, the IT role really shifted, uh, because Microsoft manages all that effectively.
(15:19):
Right? So you now have your nights and weekends back, different things along those lines.
Unless you're doing a significant migration like a tenant migration, Microsoft does a lot of the stuff for you.
So your role as an administrator has even changed significantly, because those things you used to do to make updates,
um, you know, that's all happening for you by Microsoft, right?
(15:41):
And by all these other tools. Um, and, uh, you know, even the way they drip feed information and updates now is so much different,
like you'd get once a month or once a quarter updates, where now, you know, you get updates on a daily basis, right?
I mean, I'll be doing a training where I did a training the day before and I roll into teams and all of a sudden,
(16:05):
hey, this new features available, I'm like on the fly, having to adjust, right and be like, okay, this is new.
So give me a moment. Right.
Uh, and, you know, you just have to not be afraid of saying, I don't know, like, this is not something like, I haven't seen this before.
Right. Um, so understanding and and then now with the AI thing, it's, I mean, effectively, I'm on camera right now, and Kevin's going to see this,
(16:32):
but, um, the technology or the Industrial revolution was, you know, kind of it was a change that was kind of 45 degree angle, right.
Where. And then once you added the technology revolution, that went up quite a lot.
Well, the AI revolution is literally a hockey stick. So our jobs are going to change.
(16:52):
And, you know, all the stuff with AI, I mean, it's infiltrating everything, right?
I mean, I when I get up in the morning, I log in.
I asked copilot, can you give me a status of my emails overnight?
Right. I'm in France. I things happen during the daytime in the U.S. that are I'm sleeping effectively.
Right. Um, I get meeting exports, right?
(17:14):
I'm not having to take meeting notes as a project manager.
Now, um, you know, there's all these things just day to day that are happening, which are really cool, but it's you're going to have to adapt.
Right. And the human element. I can't replace that.
Right. So keeping that human element as much as you can, but embracing it, it's going to be critical for everyone effectively.
(17:39):
Right. And if you don't embrace it and start utilizing it, I mean, one of my bosses said, so I need to start every day like the things that I do.
I need to start a copilot, the Microsoft AI solution, and ask it to do it first before I do it by myself.
Right. And just, you know, use it as your administrator.
Um, and shift that thinking. Right. It's a it's a big shift, you know, and we all have little eyes on our pocket with Siri.
(18:06):
You know, she's terrible, but, um. But, you know, I mean, it's more and more it's going to be in every day and everything.
So, um, it'll be an exciting, scary, uh, interesting chapter effectively with AI now and seeing where that goes.
Yeah. You know, it's I'm thinking about our word cloud, uh, around the subject of technology,
(18:28):
like the word change is, is a large font right there, right in the center of it.
Right? Yeah. Um, how do you learn new technology platforms?
Like what? What are your tips for that? Yeah.
So for me, um, in the Microsoft stack, I, uh, they're, they have like, biweekly calls that you can attend.
Um, and you don't have to be a person that's in a consulting firm.
(18:52):
You can go attend these. You can register online and, um, send them.
Kevin, I'll send you some links for those. Um, I follow a lot of people on LinkedIn.
Right. So I'm getting drip fed updates from like, the Microsoft leaders effectively across the organization.
Um, in Microsoft, they have a message center that effectively tells you everything that's happening at any time in the coming future,
(19:19):
along with their roadmap.
Um, so I have a once a week on my calendar where I go review the message center, what's happening, what's coming down the pipeline.
Um, and then Microsoft is getting better about, hey, this new feature was released.
I don't just click the X, I actually try to read it and make sure to see, like, what's happening.
Um, and then I read a few technology papers, unfollow a few things on, you know, social media.
(19:45):
But, um, it's hard because so much is happening so quickly, you know?
Um, but I just I'm not shy. I'll get in and, like, if I see a new feature, I'll try it out and, um, uh,
but those are the big ones for me is really staying on top of those type of things.
And don't be afraid of making mistakes. You know, if, like, there's a new feature, create, uh,
(20:08):
SharePoint site that's a demo SharePoint site for you and give it a try, you know, and see how it goes with ChatGPT.
You know, I'm always fine tuning, like my props and different things like that.
Um, and, you know, making sure that, uh, you know, you're always a work in progress, right?
Every day is a school day. Effectively is a term I love to use.
(20:29):
And, um, you know, as long as you're willing to keep learning and make mistakes and ask for help when you need it.
And I think that's, you know, being real is the best thing you can do for yourself.
Right? Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I, I hear a lot of, um, anxiety and sort of angst talk around change in technology,
(20:54):
but I think you're kind of what you're, you're sort of teasing out of this,
this conversation too, is this idea of like playing with it, playing with new technology and taking ways with anxiety about it.
I think action tends to diminish anxiety. And so if we can play with ChatGPT and see what it does or absolutely right with copilot,
(21:15):
maybe they was terrible, maybe not, then you have an informed opinion about it.
Um. Yeah. And, you know, for my organizations, when I was an FTE or full time employee,
I was the leader of a Yammer or Viva engaged community that I would put out tips and tricks on Microsoft.
Right. Like one minute, uh, digests that somebody could consume.
(21:38):
And, I mean, I can't tell you how many calls I'm in.
Um, you know, as an on one the other day with my friends and they're like, why do you look so good?
I was like, well, it's the filtering. And they had no idea. You know, it's like even little things like that, right?
You know, it's. And just don't be shy on talking about what you know and like, what you learned.
And I mean, like, I'm always on camera. I share my screen a lot, you know, like, be a promoter of positive things about the technologies, right?
(22:08):
I mean, no, technology is perfect, right?
You know, so I really try to make sure that as I'm dealing with change management, I'm always promoting as much as I can.
Right. And yeah, whatever I can do to help those end users through processes, you know, I, I, I change management.
I just really love that. And I like being a part of that for organizations.
(22:31):
And anything I could do to help people do better with technology, I'm a really big fan of.
And that is still needed, I think. Um, the sort of Buddhist principle of non-attachment comes into play when we're talking about change management.
Yeah. I find myself struggle once in a while.
Um, my previous role, I was on a campus that had a lot of Apple products, so I was used to a MacBook and I.
(22:57):
This campus, it's it's, uh, it's PC. So I'm still trying to, you know, sometimes the logic of that, I don't really get right away.
Um, so some of that idea to, like, how do you, um.
Practice that idea of not being attached to what? You're your favorite.
You know, your favorite app or your favorite system or. It's hard, right?
(23:20):
Because we're creatures of habit, right? And I mean, like, if you were to ask me, don't hate me, people, but I if you were to say, okay,
Katherine, you're going to switch your iPhone to an Android, I would probably want to jump off a bridge.
Right? Like, I have had many years of understanding this.
I know how it works. I have muscle memory in this regard. Right.
And I think that, you know, we, you know, we have to give ourselves grace because, you know, before technology,
(23:47):
even when we were younger, you know, Kevin, when we met, you know, it wasn't like it is now.
And we've effectively increased the amount we produce, but we haven't given ourselves any break.
Unlike, hey, you get, instead of working eight hours, you're working six, you know, you're working eight hours.
Plus, you know, with the help of technology, right?
So, um, having that shift effectively, you know,
(24:12):
and giving yourself a break and taking like put time on your calendar to learn the other things, you know,
and I think that's the best thing you can do and be curious, you know, I mean, you know, if you keep hitting the same wall, it's not going to change.
You need to change in order to like, learn that new thing.
(24:33):
Right. And, uh, but that's a hard one, you know, because, I mean, I'm like everyone else, right?
I work full time. So the idea of, like, taking an hour of my day to, like, figure out something.
I have no idea what I'm doing. That's really hard, you know.
And that's a hard pill to swallow because, like, I don't have the time, right?
So, um, um, let's, you know, but give yourself grace and, you know, keep learning,
(24:58):
you know, I mean, try to take some time and there's a lot of great and you strategy.
Right? I mean, I know I've in a lot of cases I'm like, I don't know how to do this, but you know, tell me and it'll it'll tell you and it'll show you.
And I mean, I'm in France rewiring electrical and I have ChatGPT on, like,
(25:19):
my speaker phone and I'm saying, okay, there's a yellow wire, a blue wire and a red wire.
What do I do? And it'll walk me through it. Right? You know, and so you have a lot of cool things with, you know, I mean, it's a real thing.
Yeah. And I'll post pictures and, you know, so, I mean, Kevin, next time you run into a problem with your windows device,
(25:39):
though, to ChatGPT and say, how would I have done this on my Mac and help me figure it out on windows?
You know, so there's a lot of cool things out there to help with that.
Yeah. Thank. Well thanks for that. That tip there. Yeah for sure.
So. You mentioned I use, you know, pretty specifically, you know, talking about using copilot.
(26:00):
Uh ChatGPT. Um. For you specifically with like.
What are what are some challenges with using AI and different AI platforms?
So the biggest thing with AI is you want to trust where it's coming from, right?
Like, uh, Deep SEQ was just released. This is a China backed one or a Chinese backed one.
(26:21):
I would wait till you hear some of the real feedback on what that looks like.
Um, because, you know, we don't know where the data is being stored, different things like that.
I use ChatGPT like it's my assistant. Right.
So I have a paid version and I have gone in and, uh, made sure that the security settings are locked down.
(26:41):
Um, you know, this is data about you. You're having conversations, you know, so having that security wrapper is very important with any one of these,
um, that you use and make sure it's reputable. Um, you know, a lot of them will use the back end of ChatGPT or deep seek and surface.
That is something else. Just make sure you're like, do a quick Google search.
(27:03):
Is this a legitimate platform? You know, how secure is this?
Uh, do do the homework, right?
Because that, you know, like I've done my entire visa, I review my taxes, you know, all this stuff on there.
And, you know, if that were to have a problem, you know, that would be a big deal.
So really make sure that it's secure, um, for Microsoft and, um, for Google.
(27:29):
Right. They're integrated into those platforms and those are very safe.
Right. You know, you're not they're keeping the data within the tenants effectively.
Um, so those you can really be secure with.
Um, and Microsoft just released if you're a Microsoft person, they released Copilot chat,
which is free for everybody that has a license, which is great. So you can utilize ChatGPT effectively.
(27:55):
Um, now just be aware your IT people have access and they can run controls to see if you're doing anything nefarious.
So just, you know, make sure you're being above ground with that.
But I mean, I use chat to be on a daily basis effectively, you know, and I mean,
um, I've used it, it did my entire visa application and, um, my renewal and I.
(28:19):
Taking it from, you know, they've written it in both English and French.
Um, it's helped me get a French driver's license.
Um, for my business, I keep my resume updated.
I add what projects I'm working on.
So whenever I need a new resume, I just say, hey, we'd give me the newest resume, keeping in mind that I have, you know, this different stuff.
(28:43):
And really, the key with ChatGPT is go take a prompt class, you know, like store the prompts that work really well for you.
Um, don't be afraid of making mistakes and you can be nice to it.
But also say, hey, this isn't what I was expecting, right? You know, like, you can fine tune it and address it.
And if it's really like, if it's not working out the results that you want, close it and start a new one, you know, um, a new chat.
(29:10):
But, um, that prompting, like the best one I can say is the act, as, you know, like act as a communication specialist,
act as a recruiter, act as, you know, a immigration specialist in France, right?
You know, act as that. Just telling you to act as, um, you can even say, act as a prompt engineer, right?
(29:34):
And say like, help me draft prompts, um, to help me do this.
Uh, that is a really great tool to utilize.
Um, and then just, you know, it's your assistant effectively.
So how can you use your assistant?
I mean, last weekend I went to Paris with my mom, so I said, create an itinerary for me, you know, and these are the things I like to do.
(29:54):
Um, and. Yeah, you know. So, um, it's really, you know, it's fascinating, but be secure.
Be safe. You know, don't do anything. You know, that's your information and your identity.
So, you know, if you're going as far as I'm going to pay for it and make sure your security properties are, are on.
(30:16):
So, um, yeah, thanks for those specific comments and, and ideas.
I think that that can be really helpful. And, and illustrating the different sort of power that these tools have.
One of the things that we're seeing in, in, in my office is students will come in, uh, wanting us to review a cover letter that they clearly just had.
(30:38):
I write for them and. That's one of the things that sort of the downside to AI is, is people relying on on it too much.
Um, what do you think about that? I think we're going to have to adapt, right?
I mean, effectively, it may be a horse and cart situation, right?
Like, we've always had to learn how to ride appropriately, learn how to do different things.
(31:04):
I mean, if you can put in your entire work history and have I draft something that really gives a really good overview, why spend hours?
I mean, like going back to my example, I applied for a thousand jobs, right?
And each one of those had to have a cover letter. And each one had to be unique for the job.
(31:25):
Right. That's a lot of time. And it doesn't mean I didn't want any one of those jobs, right.
By taking that time to utilize a tool that you have to help in that regard.
Um. I also asked it to use my voice as much as possible.
Um, so it sounds like me, right?
(31:45):
And anything that it puts out, I adjust it, I fine tune it, and then I say, hey, here's my final version and I re upload it to it.
Um, but I think for school, I mean, it's a whole I mean, think about when we were in school, I mean, how many papers did we write?
You know, I mean, no, I think really it's about how to use it effectively.
(32:07):
Right. And how are we going to instill critical thinking in this younger generation where they're not having to write papers like we did?
And how are we going to change that? Um, because I think that's going to be the biggest shift, right?
It's because it's not going away. Right. And kids are going to use it.
They're going to. So instead of like, okay, well here you need to take a prompt class.
(32:33):
You need to do the rest ensure. But you know, how are we going to.
Ensure safety in this space, right. That what you're seeing is legitimate.
A lot of times I'll get a response from ChatGPT and I'm like, this doesn't seem right.
And it's like, oh yeah, you're right. You know, like so knowing as well, like when things aren't right and wrong.
(32:55):
Um, but I don't know, Kevin. I mean, I think that's a really tough nut to crack.
And, you know, I was in, uh, women's group recently, and one of the women was a teacher,
and she said everyone's paper just clearly was ChatGPT written, you know, and she said, you know, and how are we?
Uh, that changes my entire English teaching ability, right?
(33:18):
So I don't know. What do you think? Well, I think.
Kind of what you said. What you said where. You know, make sure it's in your voice, you know?
You still have to engage with this. Like the cover letter is at the point.
Communicating your experience and your interests in that specific job is the point.
And so I think we as educators need to be really clear on what the point of what we're asking seems to do.
(33:45):
Yeah. You know, and then we can use AI, right? Like I think it does a good.
It allows people to get over that anxiety of the blank page, you know, like an it's easier to respond as something than create sometimes.
So if you were looking at something okay great. But but this student clearly doesn't look like the type of person that says the word behoove.
You know, like like we know you did not write that.
(34:08):
Yeah. Uh, so, yeah, I think it's just like anything there's there's good.
We have to figure out how to balance out the ethical use in that.
But I think it is a process that we have to be active in.
We can't just raise your hands and then ban it from a class or something, you know?
Well. And again it's that hockey stick, right. So it is going to grow really fast.
(34:33):
And I'm you think about a year and a half ago it wasn't year right.
And look how much it's integrated into our societies now.
Yeah yeah for sure. The other one uh prompt I would say is ask me any follow up questions.
Right. Like while you're talking, you know, like I ask it to ask me questions like,
(34:54):
what else do you need me to tell you what you know and be sure to do that.
So you get that two way dialect. Yeah, yeah for sure.
That's good. That's a good call. I think I we've covered some territory here with, with this idea of technology just kind of scratching the surface.
Um, I kind of want to start wrapping up our conversation just back to how you started.
(35:20):
Just. This idea that.
The way I see it anyway, technology is there to solve human problems.
And I think too often we let the technology drive our energy and our thinking.
I think it gets gets flipped. And I like the way you talk about technology as like the human side of it.
(35:42):
So, um, what do you think about that kind of balance and sort of struggle?
Well, I think a lot of times when I'm implementing a solution,
one of the key things is we want to make sure it's a business led solution, not an it led solution.
Um, and having that mind shift.
Right. Like we're not doing this just to do it. We're doing this because there's an actual need, right?
(36:08):
Um, tenant migration aside. Right. But a lot of the other things is, you know,
and having that person that's a business analyst to get with the business and really understand where their pain points are,
where their problems are, and not solutions and the technology.
So as I think about any project, I really think about it holistically and get those business requirements,
(36:34):
make sure it's business driven versus IT driven.
And what problem are we trying to solve? And then the technology should come forward with what the right solution is versus saying, okay,
we're implementing this and going to fix XYZ without really understanding what those requirements are for.
So having that approach really is helpful.
(36:57):
Um, I love having champions across the business as part of my change management.
So you have people that are just again IT speakers, right?
Because people are going to go to their peers before they're going to go to it to complain or say, I have I'm having a challenge here.
Um, I don't understand something. Right. Um, so having the that level in the business is really critical with any change management.
(37:22):
Um. Because again, people people don't like to ask questions, right?
We're all busy. Like they're not going to read. So it's easier to ask your friend, right?
So, um, you know, having those type of integrations is really beneficial.
Wonderful. Well, thanks so much for sharing your insights.
Just a just a taste of your background and experience.
(37:45):
Uh, before we wrap, are there some final sort of things you want to share about, uh, your life and the technology in the technology career?
I would just say, you know, for technology, I love what I do.
Um, I mean, it's it's a field that is very interesting.
It's, um, every day is different. And, you know, if you like variety and you want to have a career that, I mean, I get paid really well.
(38:14):
I am able like, I live in another country and I'm able to be on a call with somebody from South Dakota, from France.
Right. You know, I mean, it really opens doors to, you know, you can live anywhere and work anywhere,
which is really nice, where a lot of roles, you can't necessarily do that.
Now there is a big drive back to the office.
(38:35):
But I mean, like my consulting company I work with, we have clients all over the U.S., all over the world, right?
And my last handful of jobs, I had employees.
I was in Portland, Oregon, and not another employee lived near me.
Um, so it really allows, you know, that global reach.
I mean, I've had employees and Australia, uh, Manila, uh, India, uh, you know, the UK and, you know, having that, uh,
(39:05):
global reach and global, you know, just understanding new people, different cultures has been really eye opening to me and really amazing.
Um, and, you know, with technology, you want, like, you want to wear a hat that every day is a school day, right?
You know, like, there's going to be days that are really hard because you don't know what's going on.
(39:25):
But as long as you're willing to, like, lift up the word, make a mistake, learn from your mistakes, you know, I mean, it's a it's a great field.
And, um, you know, uh, anybody that will listen to me, I, I can't recommend it enough, you know, I mean, it's and again, there's a role for everybody,
you know, I mean, if you're a social butterfly like me to the person that is not right that I'm partnering with, like, okay, what do you mean?
(39:52):
Like, you know, uh, and so, you know, project managers, business analyst, then the entire IT people and it's not just Microsoft.
I mean, you look at every application that you have at your school, um, you know,
workday, Salesforce, you know, I mean, it's technologies and everything.
So, um, you know, and they're big and little companies.
(40:14):
And so really, you know, what field do you want to be in and what kind of experience do you want?
You know, um, like I like a big company because I like the global reach and different opportunities.
Right. Where, you know, I've had employees that really like a small company because they want to know everyone.
Right? Um, and in those type of companies, you wear a lot of hats, um, which is also very cool, you know.
(40:37):
So, um, so, yeah, just don't be afraid of say yes every time.
I mean, if someone wants to move you to Scotland for an opportunity, why not?
You know, and I mean those, um.
Hey, let's SharePoint. Okay, I'll Google it. Let me look.
Okay. Yeah. Yes, sure. I'll figure it out. You know, um, but don't be shy.
(41:00):
And, you know, um, I'll share my LinkedIn if people have questions, you know, like, I'm really happy to answer any questions.
And, um, it's, you know, it's it's a great field.
And I just love what I do. And, you know, I would change it for anything.
And it's been a great, great, great ride. Wonderful.
Well, a lot of lots of good comments there. Catherine. Thank thank you so much and thanks again for joining me on on career connections.
(41:26):
Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode.
I hope you understand why I'm so impressed with Catherine.
We covered a lot of territory in this episode, and I hope what we discussed has you reflecting on your own approach to technology and your career.
(41:47):
If you are new to this podcast, please peruse the other episodes and for topics,
suggestions and questions please contact me at Kevin Not Fullerton XD.
State that Edu.
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