046 - Autism, D&D, and RPGs: A Natural 20 Combo - With Ron Desi - Claim to Game

Episode Transcript
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>> Clint Scheirer (00:00):
Why do tabletop RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons
resonate so deeply with players on the autism
spectrum? How can storytelling, character, role play
in a good session of dice rolling help build confidence,
social skills, and genuine connection, whether you're
autistic or not? YouTuber, spokesman and
lifelong gamer Ron Desi is go going to share how he leads
sessions of Dungeons and Dragons for young autistic men

(00:23):
in ways that are safe, empowering and fun.
###Unun Whether you're a parent, a player, or
just curious about the power of games, this conversation will
unlock how role playing games bring community,
creativity and growth.

>> Ron Desi (00:36):
Growth.

Let's go make your claim to game.

(01:12):
How did you get in to Dungeons and Dragons? How did
you get into tabletop role playing? Like, why is this
so much fun and why do you spend time on it?

>> Ron Desi (01:21):
That. That's a good question, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com. so the, the.
I'll try to keep this as short as possible. So basically.

Wait, keep it as long as possible. That's okay.

>> Ron Desi (01:28):
Long as possible. No, I ll. I'll do that then.
so really what it was about was back in the
80s, I'm 52, so we're talking about
81, 80 something around that,
that timef frame during the. I don't know if
you remember this, but probably a lot of your viewers and listeners
will. The Satanic Panic or you probably have heard of it. Oh yeah, it
was really in the height of that. And

(01:51):
ironically, I went to Catholic school and you would think that a
Catholic school would look at the Satanic Panic and everything going
on and saying, we'll never have that in our
school. Nope, they had a D20 & D club.
And so, so at this Catholic school I went to, they had a D20 &
D club and it was the eighth grade teacher who was
the Dungeon Master. And that's kind of when I
got into it. And it was so much fun. I

(02:13):
loved it, played it for years, up until
like, high school. And then kind of
things got different. You know, girls became a priority over Dungeon
and Dragons and, you know, all the stuff that, you know,
adolescent boys do. Hey, girls.
So that kind of took a backseat and then life got busy.
But I always enjoyed D20 & D. I remember I read all

(02:35):
the Dristz books. Drizz it or Drist. I don't know how to pronounce
them. But the Forgotten Realms, you know, the Dark Elf
with Brunor, Battlehammeer and all the other ones. U.
Katie Bree. And I remember reading all those books, the drag.

The whole that's the name.

>> Ron Desi (02:48):
The. The drow. That's right, the Drow. yeah, he was a
good drow, even though they were evil in the monster manual
kind of thing. And I remember I was even as
a. Up until like, 30 years old, I was reading all those
books into it, but never really thought I'd get
back into D20 & D. And
it was about. I guess, probably about a year

(03:08):
ago. actually, little. About a year ago, because
a Facebook post came up when I said I was looking to
play again. I read a book called
Taming the Dragon. I think it was. I can. I always can't
remember what it is. Taming the Dragon or something like
that. And, it was about the history of
Dungeons and Dragons, stuff that I never heard of
before about Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

(03:31):
And they had this struggle. I mean, it was pretty fascinating
how, you know, we almost lost D20 & D
for, you know, it almost crumbled back, I
think, in the late 80s, early 90s. And it would have
gone disappeared, whatever, if I think it
was Wizards of the coast didn't purchase them. I mean, they had a
lot of business issues. So, anyway, long story short,

(03:51):
that got me back into the fire was lit again.

We didn.

>> Ron Desi (03:56):
And so I went into
trying to find a group. And that right
there, let me tell you, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, trying to find a
group is the hardest dragon to slay. And Dungeons and
Dragons as an adult, as a working adult
who has know kids and you got, you
know, all these other things to go to. Trying to coordinate

(04:17):
another group of adults is
terrible kind of thing.

Yeah.

>> Ron Desi (04:21):
And I. And I'll even say to this day, I still haven't found a group
to play as a player. I'm looking, but
everyone's schedules are all different, so it's. It's. I'm still
looking. But anyway, u. So that was kind of like the history of
how I got back into D20 & D. It was always a part of my life,
like a thread throughout. And like, it's like at the beginning, it was
heavy as I played as a child, and
then up through high school. Then I stopped, but that thread was still there with

(04:44):
the books I used to read. And now it's kind of. That spark is
there. And I thought to myself back in November,
I thought, well, if I can't play, at least I can
become part of the hobby. I can become part of the
universe by starting a YouTube channel. So I thought, you know,
here I am. Who hasn't played in forever? Who's going to
listen to me about Dungeons and Dragons. And I thought, well, what if it's

(05:04):
about not necessarily how to play or I'm
an expert, but it's just here's me as a 50 year
old newbie to the whole thing, getting
back into it and really trying to understand
what it's all about. You know, kind of a learning process, you
know, understanding and teaching, not teaching, it's a bad
word, and kind of conveying what it's like to live the D20 & D

(05:25):
lifestyle kind of thing. And so that's kind of what the channel is
all about. Dungeon Noob. And so that's where I
am now. And I'm still looking for a group and I know we'll talk,
I know we're going to talk a little bit later about the group that I did start
for a group for an institute called Kennedy Krieger where
I'm the dungeon master. But, you know, but, but yeah, that's
kind of the long, short history of it all.

Yeah. You know, it's so true when it comes
to starting a group as an adult.
Scheduling and if you go on any Reddit, if you go
on any forum, if you watch anybody talk about what is the
hardest thing about managing a group, it is the scheduling.

>> Ron Desi (05:59):
It is, it is. And it's. I even, did a, one of my
first videos that I did for my channel was how to find a
group ``e and you know, they're all great
ideas, but when it comes down to it, it,
there's a kind of a bit of persistency and luck
involved kind of thing. But yeah, that's the, and I kind of say
it's the biggest dragon that you have to slay in D20 &
D as, as an adult.

(06:20):
So.

Well, and you mentioned that you started young, right?
You started in eighth grade. Ish. at your
Catholic school. So you know, you're
currently. And this is the, the group that we were alluding
to earlier was you started a
game and volunteering, running games
for young adults, specifically young adults with

(06:42):
autism. How did that come about?
How did you, how did you get that group started and how has
it evolved over the past couple of years?

>> Ron Desi (06:51):
Yeah, it's a great question. And it's it kind of fell out of the
sky to be completely honest with you. so yeah, there's a group, there's
an institute called Kennedy Krieger and they're
an institute that helps children and young
adults who have learning differences,
neurodiversity, differences that type of thing,
whether it's autism or what have you. And
I was. I always.

(07:13):
So even though I love where I live, I like getting out of
the house and so. And I'm sure we'll talk about this, but I'm
a professional spokesperson by trade, so
I'm always in my basement studio, you
know, 50% of the day, because I'm recording videos for
clients. So in the morning hours I go to
Panera. There's a Panera near where I live. And,
I've kind of become a fixture there because I'm there every single

(07:36):
morning, literally almost Monday through Sunday. You know, it's
like seven days a week. I get there around 7:00 and I
leave around 11, 12. And in that
time, this group from Kennedy Krieger, a
group of, four guys who were probably between the ages of
like 18 and 21, and their
case manager would come in into the cafe in the
morning. And the way the structure is, is there's this

(07:59):
one cool part of it where it's like this
box and it's kind of like a window. So it's kind of like a
windowed office. It's really nice and it's kind of
secluded from the rest of the restaurant, which I like. So
these guys come in and they prepare for whatever they're going to do in the
morning. The case manager does emails. They're all talking
and different things like that. And I

(08:19):
just started talking to them. I just started, you
know, you know, asking them what they were doing. So we became
friends, you know, just what friends do, what M movies do
you like? And that kind of thing. And they're a great group of guys.
Well, one day I was pulling. I pulled out my
monster manual, and I have two, the 2014
and the 2025 Monster Manual. And put it on

(08:39):
the desk that I. The standing desk that I
occupy there, so to speak. And I
was preparing for like a, video or a few shorts or whatever
for the YouTube channel. And they looked at it and they're like,
what's that? And so I gave it to them. And when I gave it to them, their
eyes lit up. They were like, what's this? They were looking at all the
monsters. And of course, D20 & D is known for its artwork

(09:00):
that's like quintessential D20 & D.
And they just love, like, pouring over and asking
questions about the monsters and whatever. And they were like, you know, can we
play one day? And this kind of thing. So I got to thinking,
I mean, I don't Know, maybe we can. So I talked to
the case manager who put me a contact with someone at the
institute who then, you know, I contacted
that person, went through all the, you know, the stuff that you have to

(09:22):
go through to become a volunteer. And now
every Monday, in fact, today we're recording this on a Monday
at 12:30 Today I go to a place near us called
the Game Haven. And we play an hour of
Dungeon and Dragons. And it's awesome because it's great because it
helps me be a part of the game. It helps
me, you know, as the Dungeon Master. I

(09:43):
have no idea what I'm doing being a newbie to this, but
it's, I've learned through the process of, you know,
what are, you know, how to, you know, do the saving throws and
you know, all of the stuff that you need to do as a Dungeon Master
and kind of run that game with these individuals. Individuals.
And they absolutely love it. And so that's kind of
the origin story of that and it's something that's,

(10:03):
you know, it's great for them. I feel like I'm giving back to the
community. They're having fun, I'm having fun. It's kind of like a win
win for everyone involved really.

Is the Game Haven a store? Is it a, like
a restaurant?

>> Ron Desi (10:15):
Yeah.

Gaming restaurant.

>> Ron Desi (10:16):
Yeah, yeah, Game Haven is a game store.
They primarily, it's like they have
it's, they have like tables everywhere
and it's opened's pretty much seven days a week
and people can come in and play everything from Magic the Gathering
to Pokemon to Dungeons to Dragons,
to like every friend, of mine who's a professional Dungeon
Master who I met on this whole journey, you know,

(10:39):
through getting back into D20 & D. she runs
one shot every. I think it's like the first Saturday
every month. And so I played a couple one shots and those were a lot of
fun. So yeah, the Game Haven is just, it's a game
store where you can kind of play different kinds of
games. They have board games set up. they have tournaments,
they have all kinds of different things. They have Adventure League nights for D20

(10:59):
& D, they have Pokemon tournaments, Magic gathering tournaments, all
that kind of stuff.

Cool. We should give them a shout out into the episode. We'll, we'll put a
link to the Game Haven. Thank you for hosting, Ron. Every
Monday.

>> Ron Desi (11:10):
Exactly. Hosting us with the Kennedy Kruar guys
and U. yeah, they're, they're great. The staff is awesome
there. and that's the thing about local game stores
is everyone thinks about, you know, talk about Amazon and
you talk about, you know, and Amazon is easy, I'll
admit, but at the same time, you have these game stores
and you go in there and you ask a question and they know
exactly you know, the answer, or if they don't know, they'll look it

(11:32):
up for you. And they're just, it's a great thing. So I think everyone should just, you
know, make sure rather than if you're going to buy the,
you know, any kind of gaming paraphernalia, try your local
game shop before you get to Amazon. You know, support the local business kind
of thing.

Yeah. And you know, local game stores are a great place to
find groups.
You mentioned that like once a month there's One shots that are being
run. Well, you know, a one shot adventure that happens one
and once and then it's done.
the characters may be done, but the people you're playing with may
show up on a regular basis.

>> Ron Desi (12:02):
That's right. That's right. Yeah. And that's cool. Cool part about One Shots
is that, the person I know,
shout out to Jay, she's great dungeon master.
And she's actually, it's funny because I know we talked offline about, you
know, doing your own thing. And you know, what, what's that like in terms
of being maybe, you know, teaching people how to play dungeon and
dragons or whatever? Well, she's a professional dungeon master and I'm
helping her kind of get that off the ground.

(12:25):
And they hire her to come to the Game Haven and
she runs these one shots and it's cool because she runs through
like five different one shots. And so, you know,
people come in and, you notice that they're some of the same people
and other people kind of circle in and out. But then, you know, the
whole point of Dungeon of Dragons for me anyway is
the social aspect of things. And I think that
that's critical whether, whether it's D20 & D or any other

(12:48):
kind of tabletop role playing game is that there's that
social aspect that people often overlook.
And I think that that's something that's awesome. You know, in today's day and
age where you have everyone glued to their
screens, here you have, you know, a table full
of people who have no cell phones
and they're just in the moment, you know, playing
this game and acting out these characters and

(13:10):
killing, you know, goblins and whatever else
it might be.

So, yeah, you know, side note, I have a friend
who's one of their parents has
dementia, Alzheimer's. And one of
the ways to combat those kind of mental
illnesses is social
interaction. That is one of the number one
ways to ward off, you know, take
away the isolation, bring a little community in. And

(13:36):
it's amazing how we're just built u, our brains are
built to flourish under that kind of environment.

>> Ron Desi (13:42):
Yeah, you're right about there. There's this one. and
hope you don't mind me going off on a tangent.

Oh yeah, go off on a tangent. It's great.

>> Ron Desi (13:48):
Causing the timeline to skew off into an alternate
tangent. When I was getting back into the whole Dungeon of Dragons, I got on
YouTube and was just kind of immersing myself
in lots of different videos. And there's this one
documentary and we could put a
link to it in the show notes. and it was something about
slaying your dragons or something like that. And it was about
the resurgence of Dungeons and Dragons. But they were

(14:11):
also talking about how critical it's been.
Like they've actually done research like scientific studies and
peer reviewed journals that individuals
with learning differences, learning disabilities,
people with Alzheimer's, people who have
depression. In fact, there's this one where
Matt Mercer, who is the DM for Critical

(14:31):
Role, a person was interviewing him
and said, I want to play for you a clip
of someone who you helped. And he's like, okay.
So they played this clip and
the individual, this guy was literally
on the brink of suicide, literally. And
he was watching Critical Role got into Dungeons and Dragons,

(14:51):
starting having social interactions with individuals
and he's like, if I didn't come across Critical
Role and done into Dragons, he's like, I wouldn't be here.
And like Matt Mercer was tearing up in the whole bit. And
it's, I think these games, these tabletop role playing
games, I think, you know, when we were in the 80s, it was for
dorks in the basement kind of thing. And I think it's grown up to the

(15:12):
point where now I think people understand that it's a lot
more than that. It's more than just, you know, a game people
play. It's truly a way that you can interact
that social interaction that you get and these
role playing games, you're accessing parts of
your brain that you usually don't access. Critical
thinking and puzzle solving and all of that kind of stuff.
So yeah, a little bit of a tangent, but I just wanted to bring that up since you

(15:35):
mentioned about, you know, the social interaction is so important
for Individuals who, you know, have Alzheimer's
and etc.

Well, an RPG therapy has become a thing, you
know.

>> Ron Desi (15:45):
Yeah.

Very qualified counselors and
mental health professionals have started. And maybe they've used
it for many years, but I've started hearing that they use it
as a way to help people go through emotional
experiences that were traumatic in
their life, and otherwise they would have never processed it.
So that's kind of cool.

>> Ron Desi (16:05):
Yeah.

And it's.

>> Ron Desi (16:06):
It's just, you know, not to. Not to go too personal, but, like, you know, it's one
of those things. Like, I started going to therapy, which I think
everyone should do.

I also go to therapy.

>> Ron Desi (16:14):
You're in good company, know, you know, it's like. It's one of the. It's. I'm
glad the stigma has kind of gone away and, you know, for a long time, it's.
It's almost like finding a D20 & D group is trying to find a therapist that, kind of
matched your personality. It's almost like dating, you know, trying to find
someone. And I finally found someone, and we were going
through it, and I don't go all the details, but
I was talking to this person, and
I made a D20 & D. And she was like. And I was explaining,

(16:37):
and she said, well, what you're describing is kind of like a
rogue. And I was like, well, that's interesting. So it was
interesting because she was even pulling in
parts of D20 & D which made it. I was like, oh, well, that makes a lot
of sense now kind of thing. So, you know, it is
interesting how you can take those pieces of it and
apply it to your own life kind of thing.

Yeah, it's, it's definitely changed my life. Before
I knew about Dungeons and Dragons, I learned
about it in 2015. Like, that's how new
I am to the hobby. And, you know, I've learned a lot of
my history about it and a lot of the thingsus. I dug into
it. I was like, so into it.

>> Ron Desi (17:13):
Yeah.

But I just feel like I've been missing out for years. You know,
I'm only 10 years in, and it's wonderful. It's so
cool, the relationships that I've gotten to make.
Yeah.

>> Ron Desi (17:22):
Now, quick question. Do you play? any. Have you found a group by
chance, either online or in person?

It's been. It's been back and forth, so I am
usually the forever gm. You know, it's kind of like if
you want it, you got toa run it. And so I've
had Several groups. I had one that used to physically come to my
house before COVID And we would meet once a
monthh. we'd meet once a month for an adventure that I
found on the DMs Guild kind of connected to drive through
RPG. U Mt Black was the author

(17:50):
of the adventure and it was kind of a mixture
between fantasy and sci fi.
So it was. It was like there we were in a fantasy world, but
there were remnants of like, hey, there could be some.
There could be some advanced alien technology happening
here.

>> Ron Desi (18:05):
Oh, s. That's pretty cool.

Y We never pulled out the blasters or the lightsabers,
but u still really fun. And then
Covid dissolved that, right? Because nobody, nobody could be
around one another. ###h so from there I moved
online and I've had groups that
go for stents of maybe like six to seven
weeks. But finding that forever, you
know, 50 year group, you know, I know it

(18:29):
has't been around 50 years, but that group that just goes
on forever. I'm still looking.

>> Ron Desi (18:34):
Yeah, same here. It's like I have this. There's
this romantic fantasy of finding this group and you get together
with these great friends and it's like you play. And like,
you know, when I'm 75 years old, you know, if I get
to that point in my life, you know, I'm still playing D20 & D with
this group kind of thing. It's like, you know, that's. That's. I mean,
that's what I'm looking for. I don't know if that's possible, but that's. That's what

(18:54):
I'm looking for. And I think that's you. Sounds like you are too. So.

Y. I told my wife my dream is that one day
when I retire, I will just go to my local game
shop and I will volunteer for free running all the
games I've ever wanted for anybody who wants to join.
that would be. That would be living the life.

>> Ron Desi (19:11):
That would be that. It's ironic. My friend Jay, who's
the professional dm, she's. She's trying to make that work. Now she's
a teacher full time, but she's trying
to get to that point where she can be
a professional dungeon master as. Because she's like, that would
be my dream job kind of thing. Which, which makes
sense. And I know there's a part of the community and I don't know if I'll piss

(19:31):
off some people watching or listening to this, but
there's a large segment of the population of
tabletop role playing game, players and what have
you, that when they hear a professional Dungeon Master
who charges and it's like this, they
can't believe it happens. I'll never sell out. And I'm like,
you know, it's Dungeon Masters and Game

(19:52):
Masters. They are. It's a lot of work. I
see all the work she puts into it and she's good at
what she does. Like, she's really, really good at it. And I'm
like, you know, every game needs, you
know, if, let's say if we were lived in the same
location and was like, me, you and two other people
and we didn't know, you know, we didn't want to be Dungeon Masters, we'like we got to
find one, you know, and so I have no problem

(20:14):
with, with Dungeon Masters charging, you know, for that
skill set. We, we pay people to mow our lawn, we pay people to
do all kinds of things. So, you know, not to go off
that tangent, but, you know, I think that that's, a, I think it's a viable
business opportunity to be honest with.

Absolutely. And if anybody is interested, or if
you're interested.

>> Ron Desi (20:31):
Ron.

And learning more about professional Dungeon Masters,
episode 39 of the CTG, we
actually had David North, East, who lives out in
the uk. He is a professional dm.
That's what he does. And a lot of times he will,
he has that struggle of like, what is my value?
Yeah, somebody who's storytelling and putting

(20:52):
everything together and, and purchasing different
programs, especially online, you know, if you want like the music
and the, the virtual tabletop, like, he,
he's the one who's providing a lot of those subscription
services so that you can have that full immersive experience.

>> Ron Desi (21:06):
So I'll also send that to her because I think that would be a
great episode. I'll listen to that too. That's, that's awesome.

But yeah, you can just tell her she's worth it. She's worth every
dime and, should keep doing what she's doing. I
believe it. There are people I used to be in that camp, like, why would I
pay somebody to do something that I
enjoy and that I can do myself?
And the real question you have to ask is, do I
have the time to do it and

(21:32):
am I enjoying it? If that's true, then, yeah, go ahead and do it yourself.
But if you need somebody to help you out with all that other stuff, a pro
GM would be a perfect solution.

>> Ron Desi (21:40):
Yeah, I think so. And like, for instance, you know, and if there is
someone, like, he's just like you just said,
Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com is that if there's someone out there and you
love the prep, you love being a dungeon master,
you love being that game master who kind of
crafts the story and, you know, and really
enjoy that. That dynamic, then
definitely, you know, you know, find your group and go for it.

(22:01):
But. And you know, for me in the Kennedy Krieger
group, you know, it's. It's great for me because it's.
It's. I call it D20 & D light because
I don't follow all the. All the rules. It would get way too
complex for me and for them. So it's D20 & D
light. But, you know, I'm having fun.
But if I had to do what a dungeon master does and
learn all of that, I was like, I feel like I

(22:24):
probably would be charging. I know that sounds like a
capitalist, you know, mindset, but I'm like, the amount of
work a good DM puts into it to make
it immersive, I mean, that's.
That's something else.

Yeah, it's. It's a mind shift for sure. In the
hobby now.

>> Ron Desi (22:40):
Exactly.

Thinking about that, you know, planning these sessions,
what's a typical game session, like, with your specific
group that we've been referencing several times? Like,
what it. What is it like? You know, how do you set the tone?
How do you make it so that everyone feels comfortable regardless of
where they are on that spectrum?

>> Ron Desi (22:58):
Yeah, that's. That's like a really good question. So, I'll
be completely honest with you. I wasn't quite sure how to start
because I, don't have experience with
neurod. Neurodivergent individuals. you know,
obviously at Panera, we were, ah,
I'm there every day and they came every day. So I got to know them as
friends. So I, you know, was comfortable and understood them from that

(23:19):
standpoint. But in terms of teaching them a
game which can be extremely complex,
you know, I was like, where do I start? So I
actually went to AI, of all
places, and I was like, I just had a conversation.
I use AI probably more than I probably should in my life. But
anyway, so, yeah, so I was
Talking to the A.I. between Chachptt, Claude and

(23:41):
Gemini, and just asking about different things. And I was like, you
know, how do they create a character? So let's just start there. How do we create a
character when there's. They got a rolell they gott. You know, there's
all the classes and all these other types of things and the weapons
D. And it came up with this
genius concept which was create little
cards of all of
the classes, let's say so from Ranger

(24:04):
Bard, what have you. And there was these little cards that I had
AI create and I cut them out and it had you
know, the symbol of like a ranger. And then it said
choose this if you like. And it gave, you know,
kind of if you were, if you liked
bows and arrows and like simple things that they
could understand that I could teach them at the same time. And

(24:24):
then we were like, okay, so what about strength? So what I did
was it said to create. I can't remember
how many trait, not traits but
like strength and charisma. I can't remember how many there are, but like eight
maybe something like that. And so print eight
cards and have different numbers
on them. And then the numbers had to add up to a
certain amount and so they could then take the card. So it

(24:47):
was more rather than just a thought provoking exercise
with a, you know, you're writing down on a piece of paper. They were
literally physically dealing with cards that
they could interact with and that kind of thing. And they love
that. And I've noticed working with them it's
about dice rolls, it's about the battles, it's about,
you know, those types of things.
And so that's what they enjoy. Like, like when they,

(25:10):
the first thing they want to do is start getting into a battle and start rolling
dice. Like that's the most fun. So rather than
even going into. I'm looking over here because I have like the
starter pack. I think it's the
dragons of something Ale like a shipwreck aisle.
I can't remember which one it was. but anyway, even that one for
me, I'm looking through it and I'm like, there's no way I'm going to
memorize and get it. Just even for me, I was like, I don't have

(25:32):
time to like really delve into it.
So I worked with AI to create a
campaign and now we're in
week, I think 8 or 9 of the campaign. I think
it's 9 of the campaign. And you know, so we,
I talk to the AI and I tell it how the last session
went. What were some of the issues? Where did things stall out
a little bit. And so each, I've noticed each

(25:54):
session gets a little bit better because I'm
learning how they learn. And then, you know, I talk to the
AI and It gives me some suggestions and I go back out there and we
test some things. So so like a good example
today was I wanted
to. Two people are going to be missing. So it's just a group of
two today. And so I wanted a little easier
adventure and the AI was like, well how about if we do

(26:16):
puzzles and challenges? And I'm like that's good for all of them
together, but not with the two individuals who are here.
These two really like the dice roll. They like the dice, they like
the battles, they like the seeing the little. I create little
tokens versus like actual miniatures. I create I print
out little round tokens and they like to see the monsters on
the tokens and everything else. And so that's kind of how I

(26:37):
created today's campaign. It was based on talking to
an AI, understanding, you know, these
individuals and kind of how they've grown in
the game as we've gone along. So long story
short, that's kind of how I've developed this. I think the
next thing at knowing what I know about these guys, I
think what I'm going to do next time once we're finish this

(26:57):
campaign, I'm actually probably going to go with one of the D20 &
D board games. Like there's the there's the Drist board
game. There's a few board games that are out there that are
D20 & D specific but it's more, you
know, you're rolling, it's more kind of fast paced action.
It takes less of the storytelling outus I've
noticed they'they like the stories but it's not really
what gets them, you know, excited about things.

(27:20):
So that's probably where I'm going to go next.

You know what I'm as I'm listening Ron. Some things that I
heard, just to summarize it for the listeners, you
use manipulatives, right? You're using physical
things for them to be able to move around,
to take some very complex, maybe like
abstract concepts and make them
more solid. So you mentioned, you know, for
the cards, I think that's genius. You took

(27:46):
story functions of the character archetypes
like if I'm going to be a rogue, I'm going to be shooting a lot
of bow and arrows. You know, I'm mean there's a lot of arrows that
are gonna be zinging past. And so
you're taking like what is this person going to be doing
if they choose this type of class? And you
made it a physical choice for them to be Able to pluck. I think that's

(28:06):
awesome. The tokens. Little tip to
everybody when I do. so I also print out the. The tokens. I
usually just use printer paper and then I like to stick
mine on furniture sliders. So if you find
like one inch. Yeah, one inch by one
inch. Little felt furniture sliders happen to
make really good tokens.

>> Ron Desi (28:25):
Can I show you real quick?

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

>> Ron Desi (28:28):
Let me show you real quick. let's see here.

No how here
it'on a field trip.

>> Ron Desi (28:37):
Everyone I know, right? Why does this ever happen?
Podcast.

Yeah.

>> Ron Desi (28:43):
All right, so let me see. Where's the u. All right, so this is one of
their characters. Let's see.
I can get.

There we go.

>> Ron Desi (28:53):
That's kind of what I do. It's a one inch I print it
out on Avery printer paper.
which is like two inch.
what is it? Two inch, adhesives. And then what I do is
I went to Home Depot and no and I'm sorry
Amazon. And I got these wooden discs
and I just take the little wooden disck, slap it on

(29:14):
and so that's kind of how I do it. And they love it. It's a cool
little, little thing. So. Yeah.

Does it have a washer on the bottom? I saw like a little metal
circle.

>> Ron Desi (29:22):
Yeah, that was a washer. I took those off.
I wanted to make them a little heavier. But then it's.
Once you do this and you multiply it times
like 15 pieces, it gets really heavy. So I don't do
that anymore. I figured one is niceuse, it's got some
heft to it. But like I said, you put 1520 in
a box and it gets a little heavy. So.

Yeah, well the furniture sliders can blow away in the
wind. So it might be. Maybe I'll upgrade to my.
To wooden discs off of V. Amazon. That's great.

>> Ron Desi (29:50):
That's cool. So when you do it so you do the you small like the
1 inch ones. That's what.

Yeah. And the cool thing is you start to build your
collection. So people who do miniatures who,
who like the manipulatives, who like you know, the
dungeon, pieces that you can get crafted by
different companieseah. you know, they'll start to build
their their D20 & D,
manipulative collection.

>> Ron Desi (30:13):
Yeah.

And what I've learned is now I have most monsters as
these little felt tips, you know. And you can get the bigger
sliders because you know usually a two by two
would be I don't know if that's a large creature.
you know there's the different sizes. Most, most
humanoids are medium. And then as you
get bigger and you get to like we were talking about the Tarask,

(30:33):
you know, the legendary creatures. Those take up a little bit
more. You'd have to have like a giant sized
furniture.

>> Ron Desi (30:40):
A fr. Get a Frisbee for, for that one.

Yeah, yeah. that's cool.

>> Ron Desi (30:44):
I didn't even think of the furniture. Sliders are interesting.
I like that idea. And yeah, I guess you, you can get those at Home Depot
or anywhere really.

Yeah, it was very inexpensive and I got them in a bag. I think
the hardest part was I couldn't get like tons of the smaller
sizes. Cause you typically use the medium sized creatures 1 inch
by 1 inch more often. but anyway, that's,
that's the DIY version for those of you guys. Like, I don't wa. Want to be
cutting stuff out. Just go online.

>> Ron Desi (31:09):
Yeah, that's great. And that's why I got stickers. Because
at first I was like cutting them out and like glue stick and I was like
this is taking way too long. So now I just print out the stickers and slap
them on. And then, then there's the other trick which is u,
my friend Jay, what she does is
she's got the. You probably have seen it. It's paper folded
and then in the middle she puts a penny.

(31:29):
She like tapes a penny in the middle. So it's like a heavier little
thing. Yeah. And it's a. That's what I did for my first
one. But it still took a while to like cut out, fold
it, put the penny in and stuff like that. So.

And in transport I could see myself just squishing
that new oblivion.

>> Ron Desi (31:45):
Exactly, exactly. So yeah.

Cool. So we're using manipulatives. We're trying to make abstract
more physical. U, take out, you know, still have
storytelling but not make it the main focus. I love
all of these tips, you know.
And I guess the other thing I wanted to talk about was
in what ways do you see that clear rules.
Clear rules in D20 & D, having an, you know,
this is what you do in this situation. How does that help

(32:09):
these individuals, or anybody be able
to navigate in social interactions? So the turn, taking
the problem solving, the puzzle solving. Like how do the
rules assist in these in your
group?

>> Ron Desi (32:22):
Yeah, that's a good question too because one of the things
that I had to do is to make sure that and I think all
Dungeon Masters do this and some of them do it and I do it on the
fly. And I think a lot of them may plan it. You have to know,
it's like anything else in life. If you're going to give a presentation, you have to know your
audience. Right? this is the same thing if you're a
Dungeon Master, you have to know your audience. If you're playing with a

(32:42):
bunch of people who've never played before, your approach is going to
be completely different than if you're playing with group that's been
playing for 10 years and they kind of know the rules inside and out.
So with that said, with this group of
individuals, what I did was there are certain rules that
we abide by and kind of the basics.
And I kind of just did it by the fly. I didn't, like, look
up anything. I didn't ask AI. I just thought of, you know, what are

(33:05):
some of the things that they would be able to really understand and
grasp immediately and stuff like armor class, like
the basic, basic stuff. You know, there's armor class and there's,
you know, when you're trying to. And I've also
introduced rules as we've gone along. Like, for
instance, I never did like, saving throws
in the beginning. And then I slowly introduced

(33:25):
saving throws. So if someone wanted to do
an investigation, you're like, well, I'm going to check out the altar.
It's like, okay, well, what I want you to do is look on your sheet
and look at, you know, investigation and what does
that say? And kind of thing. And so what I would do, it's oay, then you
got a roll. And then so it's like this slow
build up of the rules. And I first started, it was pretty much just you, the

(33:45):
basis, you know, armor class, hit points. you
know, I didn't even do strength checks. It was a very
basic role kind of thing. And now we're at the point where they
understand what saving throws are. Not all of them. I
don't do it. Like, I listen to a lot of D20
& D podcasts now. I've kind of,
kind of put my business podcasts on the side. Now I'm listening

(34:06):
to, I think it's called Dice Shame and Roll the Bones or those
are awesome podcasts. And anyway, nothing
that complex where it's like every single thing they do, there's a
saving throw or, a, you know, or a check of
some type or whatever it might be. And they've also
learned about, you know, if they have a strength as a
strength modifier. And what does that mean? So it's

(34:27):
kind of evolved from the simple, you know,
taking little tokens, which we still use, but in terms of using
those cards and, you know, trying
to figure that out and introducing rules slowly
to them, building up to where they are now, which is they
understand the game at a more complex level.
And what's really cool is
introducing other things like puzzles, because

(34:50):
I did this one puzzle where. Do you remember
in Indiana Jones, Last Crusade? Do you remember? Did
you ever see that movie?

That's the best one. That's the best one.

>> Ron Desi (34:59):
By far. By far.

John Connery may be a part of that. I don't know.

>> Ron Desi (35:03):
But Junior, I know that was. That was just.
Yeah, that was probably. Probably in my top 10
movies. I mean, that was a really good movie. And,
the last scene where he had to pick the cup
and, you know, there are all
these jeweled cups, and he picked the one that was the
most simple, which would be, you know, from, you

(35:23):
know, the son of a carpenter would have a simple cup.

You have chosen wisely.

>> Ron Desi (35:30):
Well, I did something similar for them, which was they
had to pick, a seed. And all
the other ones were, you know, gold and silver and platinum and
they shined and they had a certain hum to them when you
held them. And then there was just one that just felt like an
acorn. And the tip
was, which one brings life?
And of course, when they first started, they were like, I want to do the

(35:52):
gold one and said the gold one. And the punishment
was if they got it wrong, all of them
lost 10 hit points. So I said, a
blast of energy comes forth and
you all of a sudden, nothing. You't. You didn't get hurt, but you feel
just more tired.

He chose
poorly.

>> Ron Desi (36:11):
And each of you take. Reduce your hit points by
10. And then they made the wrong choice
again. And then I said, and then you kind of have to
like the character who was the
NPC who was telling them what they had to do. He was
like, I will give you one more chance.
And in this time, remember which one
gives life. And the one kid was like, I got

(36:34):
it. It's the acorn. It's the only one that actually
gives life. And so it's like those moments
that. That really. It's like, it sparks
that creativity you could sell that. They were all then excited by
it. And so it was really cool.
So I think that that's kind of how I get
the game going from its very simplistic roots to Kind
of where we are now. So I think that that's, you know, kind of cool,

(36:56):
which is why we've all been at that table where,
you know, the something's on the line. Even, one shot I was
in, something was on the line and you need
to roll something good, you need to. Or something bad's gonna
happen. And that one person rolls a nat 20
and you give the high five across the table. Everyone
cheers. I mean, you can't beat that. I mean, you just can't be

(37:16):
that, you know, stupid cell phone'not going to give you that.

You know. I have three thoughts from what you were sharing
your progressive scaffolding in the learning
world. You are starting small, building on their
knowledge of the game, expanding as they move
forward. It is genius. That's awesome. the
other thing is, you're stealing like an artist. I don't know if you ever read that
book, but, I have't.

>> Ron Desi (37:38):
I should. I've heard of it. Yeah.

Taking from Indiana. I mean, that's exactly it.
Like these movies and these books, you know, there's a
reason they resonate with us. It's because there
is a clear, there's a clear
problem that needs to be solved.
And the progression of solving that problem is what makes it
exciting for us to live in the story. So.

(38:00):
Yeah. And the third movie is the best. Totally. I
just saw the night being like, you chose poorly.

>> Ron Desi (38:06):
That was the best part. You chose
poorlyah not
phenomenal.

And then the other part, this leads into another
question. Something on the line,
taking risks. So in the real
world, it's hard to
step out and take risks. Right. Ca. Becausee it feels like
the consequences if poorly
chosen, are not quite as,
desirable and they may feel more long lasting. But

(38:33):
games.

>> Ron Desi (38:34):
Yeah.

Like we mentioned with tabletop therapy, allow us to
explore things that we may not be able to explore.

>> Ron Desi (38:40):
Yeah.

You know, go on adventures that we never would go on. You know, when
are you going to meet a giant legendary red
dragon in the real world? You wouldn't. And, and
so that risk taking idea,
my question is like, have you noticed that the
participants in your games
are taking more risk or have they
learned like, you know, are they more cautious, are

(39:04):
they more bold? Or how do they balance that, that risk
taking feeling?

>> Ron Desi (39:08):
Yeah, it's, it's funny because like in the real world,
I don't know, but because. And I think that I'm under
the philosophy like these games truly can
change your life. and I'll talk about that a little later. But,
you know, I truly think that if you adopt some
of the teachings and the different
classes have different strengths and weaknesses,

(39:29):
and I think that you could learn from these
games. And actually, if you did, it talks about risk taking
and the consequences too. I mean, consequences
are a big part of making a decision. And if you make a
decision in D20 & D, it could result in
the death of your character or someone else kind of thing. And
so in the real life, I'm not sure.

(39:50):
but I know in the game it has, because in the
beginning they were very cautious about
things. And they've noticed.
They've. It's one of those things. How do I say it?
They were cautious because they weren't quite sure what the game was
going to do. They didn't understand kind of like where the game was going to
be or what the consequences were going to be. But once

(40:10):
they start to understand the consequences that I'm battling
a monster and if I do this,
then that's going to happen. So the next time I want
to do that, I probably shouldn't do it that way.
And so they are learning as they're going
along the process of, you know, what it's
like to be the character that they're in. And they don't do the

(40:30):
rolepl play. They don't do the kind of whole roleplay thing. It's more or
less, you know, my character is doing this. But
still, even then they go. They went from being very
cautious to then kind of like, okay, I'm going to
try doing something. Let's say if it's, you
know, opening a chest, like, like here, here's a good
example. They were, they defeated. I think
it was 2G knolls. And there was a chest, you know,

(40:53):
a treasure chest there. And they go up to it
and the one guy was like, I'm just going to open it
up. And the one. And the other guy who never
played D20 & D before, he's like, don't do it. It could be a
mimic kind of thing. And so right away
they were like, oh. Because if it were. And of
course, on the spot, what did I do? I made it a mimic just

(41:13):
because it was more fun that way. But it kind
of showed that the one guy just wanted to go up and do it,
and the other one was like, no, no, no, no. That could be a mimic.
And it's. I guess. It's like. I guess by looking at
the books that I gave them, they probably saw it and they thought it was cool.
but, yeah, They've kind of gotten to that place where
they're experimenting more and they understand that certain

(41:33):
things in the game, if you do them, they could have
consequences. And if I do, there's another puzzle that we're
go goingna be talking about that we're go going toa do today in the campaign
puzzles. And I guarantee they're going toa
approach it differently because of the puzzle that
we had with the acorn and the other seeds there.
So you know, Ss. And it's cool watching these
guys learn as they're going along because

(41:56):
you know, like anything else, if you're dming, if you're
dming a brand new group of individuals, it's cool to watch
them get excited by the game and learn from the game and
to, you know, learn as they progress as a character.
So it's kind of cool.

They're building confidence, they're building
caution. They're finding a balance between
caution and confidence.

>> Ron Desi (42:15):
Yeah.

And social skills. So I mean that goes beyond. Right. We
do learn from these games and we can bring all this stuff
into all of it. you know, I
guess I love the stories that you're telling, right?
The Mimic, the you know, two of the
books that have changed the way that
I game master. So the first one
is the Lazy Dungeon Master. And there's

(42:39):
a subsequent one called Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master by
Mike Sha.

>> Ron Desi (42:43):
I haven't heard of those two.

Phenomenal. And if you wanna audiobook em, you know, they're on
audible so you can listen to them. I actually like having the
physical copy because it just has such a wealth
of. If I could boil it down into
like one lesson, it's that
it doesn't become real until the players make
it real. And you can do a lot of planning,

(43:05):
but sometimes what they come up with on their own is way
better than anything that you could have came up
with. And you can lean into it like that idea with the mimic,
you're just like oh, yeah, of course. And then they're like oh, you knew it was
gonna be a mimic. And you're like no, actually I didn't. You guys came up with
that. So that's one, that's tr. The
other is Robin D. Law's Laws

(43:25):
of Good game Mastering. so Robin D.
Laws, he works for or is at least a
consultant for
Pelegr Press. He came
up with games like the Yellow King
role playing game. He came up with the Gum Shoes,
role playing system. So outside the realm of D20
& D. But that, that particular book, Robin's

(43:47):
Law, Laws of Good Game Mastering, goes
into what kind of players are you playing with? And
you're already thinking that like I'm playing with two
people today who love the dice rolling and
love to kick butt. Like they want to have a
battle, you know. And that's one of the player
archetypes that he has in his book is
like the butt Interesting.

>> Ron Desi (44:09):
Interesting.

And there's like quizzes people have made, you know, to try to
like qu. Quizify, his teachings in that
book. But overall, like just knowing your
players, knowing what they like and planning
just enough to make it interesting so
that they can come up with the rest of the world is genius.
Now you were talking before we started
about a quiz that you are developing,

(44:31):
a kind of survey of such and you've alluded
to it a couple of times, like a rogue has
a certain personality type. Can you tell me a little
bit about that quiz and what you're thinking about it and where it's going?

>> Ron Desi (44:43):
I would say yeah. Thanks for bringing that up because I think it's something
I've become really passionate about. And it started
with. So anyway, to give it. To
answer the question, yes, I created a quiz that. For my
dungeon noob, channel.
You know, the channel is basically about not how to play, it's
not about mechanics, it's not about I'm a

(45:03):
noob to this, so I am no one to talk about
strategies to be a dm. I mean I just,
I just wouldn't do that. It'disingenuous. So what
I do is talk about the D20 & D
lifestyle. I've got got videos coming out about, you know,
the coolest dice that are out there, the most expensive dice, you know, how to
find a group, what do you need to play, you know, those kinds of
things. And part of the channel also I want

(45:26):
to make it, you know, what can you learn? And
we. This is kind of a thread that has come through this
conversation we've had is how can you develop
and learn from tabletop role
playing games, dungeons into dragons, etc. So I got to
thinking like, how is there something I can give my audience
which right now it's small, it's like 2,000 subscribers, but, but

(45:47):
it's growing. What can I give them that
would not just be something fun but
also kind of help them in life? I know that's kind of an
audacious goal to have, but as I
was thinking about it I ran into some
research, that talks about
Dungeons and Dragons classes. So from bar

(46:07):
to ranger to fighter, barbarian, artificer,
the whole bit, all of those are.
You could take those classes and map those
to personality archetypes. So,
you know, what class are you in real life?
So it's one thing to say in the game I'm a,
let's say I'm a bard. But in real life, based

(46:27):
on your personality, what are
you? And so I wanted
to kind of share that because I think it's
something I'm passionate about. Like, for instance, the fighter. Like there's
something called a core identity, and I'm reading right here, it says, you know,
for the fighter, the core identity of a fighter, based on
this research and other things I found was you're a doer, a

(46:48):
master of your chosen craft. You believe that success is
not a matter of luck talk or raw
talent, but a relentless discipline, practice,
preparation. So I created a quiz
that. It's a 12 question quiz
that kind of hones
what class you might be. And when
you take it, you'll get the results. And the results

(47:10):
aren't just, hey, congratulations, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, you're a
barbarian. It's, you actually get a PDF
that tells you what you are, what the class
is based on your personality type,
what your strengths are, what your superpower is,
and then, you know, how you can apply that to your life. And also
what are your weaknesses? What are those blind spots? Because
if you're got, if you have the barbarian

(47:33):
archetype, it means that you're more,
you know, focused on, you know, the, you know,
the role energy that you might have, the impulsive types of
things. You're the person who, you know, you, you, you
know, I'm trying to think of the, you know, you shoot first, ask
questions later, that cliche. And one of the we,
there's a lot of strengths to that, but there's a lot of weaknesses built

(47:53):
into that as well. So the personality, you know,
PDF that you get not just tells you what class you are,
but it also talks about, you know, how you can
take that class, embrace it, and then
hopefully apply it to your life and make
your life better either at work or school or at
home, relationships or just, you know, however you want it to
apply it. So that's kind of what I've built.

(48:16):
And you know, I'm sure that if you could probably put the
link down in, the description or the down and down
below.

You bet. Shoot that quiz link over. And anybody who's
listening right now will be able to take around quiz for sure
once it's up and running.

>> Ron Desi (48:30):
Yeah, it. I'm. By the time this goes live, it probably
will be ready. In fact, I'm going to make sure it's ready. And you
know, I've had a lot of fun doing it and I've taken the quiz
myself and I was like, I
am this person. I turned out to be a Ranger. I'm kind of a
loner. I prefer a lot of
downtime. Like when I. It's like, I'm not a social
extrovert. I'm not going to go out and like, try to do

(48:52):
things with, you know, I kind of more or less like
my. I like to withdraw. That's just the way I
am. And you know, having me time
is, you know, critical and that's a superpower. But
it's also, there's a lot of weaknesses built in too because you could
become so withdrawn that, you know, you miss out on all
the things that life has to offer. So it kind of even me
taking the quiz, I was like, yeah, I kind of, you know, I need

(49:15):
to do certain things to try to, you know, to steer
myself in a direction if I want to become successful at
X, Y and Z.

So, yeah, strengths and weaknesses or
challenges to the same class.
That's really awesome. Yeah, I'm totally going to take the quiz,
and let everybody know what I am too.

>> Ron Desi (49:32):
I might. If you don't mind, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, I'll. What I might do is I'll send you
so you can test it. If you want to test it, I'd be happy to sen it to you.

Let me test it as many. I love that stuff.
I remember I took one for Harry Potter U. way back.

>> Ron Desi (49:44):
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I've taken so many Harry Potter quizzes.
Usually I fall. I was a Slytherin and then I ended
up being a Gryffindor and then I was a mixture between Ravenclaw
and Slytherin. I was like a sl. Slithered Slitheror. I
don't even know what they slither. Gryffindor.

>> Ron Desi (49:59):
It's funny because none of these, you know, none of these
quizzes like my quiz are the ones that you've taken and I've taken
those two. None of these are like, scientifically valid
quizzes at all, but, you know, they are.
I would say, you know, they're good enough to get you in
the right direction. So if you really wanted to,
you know, take a look at, you know, whether you're, you know, I don't know if the one

(50:19):
that you took was like, you know, you're a Slytherin. So
that means here are your strengths, here your weaknesses.

Means I'm evil.

>> Ron Desi (50:26):
Yeah, that's. It's like you're evil and you know,
it's Yeah. but yeah, I think those are just. They're fun to take.
Everyone likes to take them. And then if it's got something
beneficial to you, then more power to it. So yeah, they're
fun. I like them.

Yeah, it's, it allows us to reflect.
And I think anytime you were mentioning about being
on technology earlier and just how we're always
so distracted, anytime we can slow
down and reflect on ourselves, our lives and the people around
us, even if it's a quiz about what class we are with D20 &
D, like that can only be good, in my opinion.

>> Ron Desi (50:58):
Yeah. and the thing I love about like the whole,
you know, tabletop role playing games, dungeon and dragons and all of
that is the fact that it really can help
you. And like we were talking about before, and this is kind of a thread
that's kind of unexpectedly come up. Like I was m talking about
that the guy who, you know, Matt Mercer, saw
that he was just on the verge of suicide and D20 & D

(51:19):
helped him. It might be an extreme case, but there
are a lot of cases where if you really look, there
are so many, like you mentioned before, that
TTRPG's are being used in therapy
now. So it's like there's's,
there's a lot to be gained than just
it's fun, but there's a lot of stuff that can come out
of it that could really, at least for me anyway, I think it could help you in

(51:41):
your life.

Yeah. episode 42. I talked with
Martin Lloyd. he m also, I think originally was
from the uk I think he lives in the Netherlands now. But he came up
with a game called Amazing Tales and
it really caters to that younger audience where D20 &
D might feel really complex.
I played it with my little girls actually, and they loved it. I think

(52:03):
they made up like two fairies that went and rescued
an owl baby. A little owl.

>> Ron Desi (52:08):
Awesome.

Yeah. And they came up with most of it. It rarely did I
come up with anything, in that game. But he's
had therapists reach out to him and say, this is phenomenal for
my type of counseling that I do.
So yeah, yeah, it's a real deal.

>> Ron Desi (52:24):
And to, to kind of piggyback on that. I was,
my friend Jay, who does that you know, pro, Dungeon
master thing. It's interesting because she was saying
that the moment, like these. Most
of the time right now, most of our clients are parents,
you know, come, you know, hiring her to do
D20 & D for their kids or their kids and the friends and that kind of thing.

(52:44):
And she always says, she's like, after. She's like, they drank the Kool Aid.
Oh, no.

Oh, yeah.

>> Ron Desi (52:49):
She's like, because the parents come to me. The kids have a blast.
And the parents come to me and they're like, oh, my God, I can't believe
for three hours straight, not one time did they look at their
phones. You know what I mean? And in today's society,
that's everything, right? It's like,
if you can get kids to do that and be imaginative, like
with your, like you said with your daughters. I mean, that's
awesome.

Yeah. For reference, at this time, my daughters are
six and four's
very little. And I remember trying to get
them into doing D20 & D when they were younger. When my
oldest son, he's, he's eight, like, having him try to do
it, it just got too much and they
started tuning out.

>> Ron Desi (53:28):
Yes.

because even, even just a simple saving
modifier, you know, on a, or a strength
modifier or something like that, like, that's too much. you know,
less is more with the littles.

>> Ron Desi (53:39):
But yes, yes, it is.

Wrapping this all together. I, do this on every
single episode and people are probably like, why is he talking about this again?
But there's an activity that Eric news him, from
NPR News. He's not NPR anymore. He has his own
deal. He wrote a book about podcasting,
make noise. And in that book he
talked about creating a 10 word phrase using
the economy of words. So it can't be more than 10, it can't be

(54:04):
less than 10, but exactly 10
words. To help our listener
remember something about what we talked about today, whether
it's related to autism, the spectrum
neurodivergeny with D20 & D.
you know, just. What do you want people to remember?

>> Ron Desi (54:22):
I would say, I mean, that's a good question.
difficult question too. Even though we were pretty focused. I mean,
we didn't get. We kind of. We went a little outside, but
we were pretty focused. I mean, I would say if anything.
Let me think about that.

We got like a B. Oh, yeah.

>> Ron Desi (54:37):
Oh, focus. Yes, Yes. I think focus. We did pretty well. Bus, for
sure. I would say that, the first thing that
popped in my head is probably too cheesy. But it's the first thing that popped
in my head so I'll just say it and maybe I can modify it
later. Later. But you know, D20 & D
or let's just say tabletop role playing games can
change your life. I think that they

(54:58):
can. And I'll even maybe D20 & D
role playing games can change someone's life
kind of thing because like we've talked about, I think
there's more to it than just people around
a table playing a game. I think with these
games I think they're more imaginative than
most other games. I think they're more u

(55:19):
of course I'm biased. You biased kind of thing,
but from what I've done and the research that I've done
on like the class quiz, things that I've seen
online, the things that you talk about when you were talking about
Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com, about you know, the, in
therapy, truly, these games
can truly help improve your life
and the life of someone that you care about. So I would,

(55:39):
I would say that, I would say, you know, tabletop role playing
games can change your or someone else's
life.

100% agree. I if I, if I was a
tattoo kind of man, that would be something I would put
around.

>> Ron Desi (55:52):
The old bicep, put, put a D20 and
then right underneath it ye D.

And D can change your life.

>> Ron Desi (55:58):
And thank God me genean I got my pump back man. You
know, the pythons are already the largest arms in the world.

Ron, thank you for joining. Thanks for beingeah.

>> Ron Desi (56:05):
This is fun Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com. I appreciate it.

I guess the last thing I want the listener to know. How
can they connect with you and your
work, what you're doing, how can they stay connected to it?
Where would you send them?

>> Ron Desi (56:17):
So right now everything is YouTube. So if you
go to u YouTube and just search
dungeon noob one word n o o b I think
it's YouTube.com
dungeonnob and then if you do
that you'll find everything. My email address is directly
ron dungeonnob.com do if you wanted to kind of do it that

(56:37):
way. But yeah, everything over on YouTube.

Awesome. I will make sure that's all in the show notes for those
of you who are a part of the Better yourself better your
game newsletter. I popped Ron into the newsletter and
he'll be he'll be in the next newsletter for sure
because this is, this is great rn thank
you. Enjoy all of your games. I hope you
find that dream group that you're waiting for.

>> Ron Desi (57:00):
I hope you do too.

Oh, I. Yeah, it'll come. And if not, I'll just be that old
guy that's in all the, you know, the game shops running games for
free. So.

>> Ron Desi (57:08):
Yeah.

Thanks again, Ron. Take care.

>> Ron Desi (57:11):
All right. Thanks, Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com. Take care.

Tabletop Role playing games can change someone's life.
Maybe yours. Click on the link in the show notes to check out
Ron's 13 question quiz. What D20 & D class
are you in real life? This is real life, kid. You
can uncover your unique strengths and also a simple
framework for how to grow in games and in
real life. I took the quiz and came out as a

(57:33):
cleric. Greetings Cleric. Someone with
faith, strong ideals and a desire to help others.
It pretty much had me pegged. Please hit like or
subscribe if you enjoyed what you heard today. If you listened on
Apple or Spotify, go ahead and give a five star review to
the ctg. And may you keep having fun as you
continue to have a great time with friends and tell amazing stories
through Tabletop Role Playing.

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046 - Autism, D&D, and RPGs: A Natural 20 Combo - With Ron Desi

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}046 - Autism, D&D, and RPGs: A Natural 20 Combo - With Ron Desi