July 17, 2025 • 26 mins
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#R9 - This episode’s a rewind of my most downloaded one ever—yep, the big question: should you play with a Gamemaster or try a GM-less game? I break down the pros and cons of both, share some honest takes from my own tables, and help you figure out what fits your crew best. Whether you missed it the first time or need a fresh perspective, this one still hits. Settle in—it’s a fun ride.
Previous Episodes Mentioned:
- 035: Top Best GM-Less TTRPGs - https://claimtogamepodcast.com/episode/035-top-5-best-gm-less-ttrpgsÂ
Items mentioned during episode:
- The Lazy Dungeon Master by Michael E. Shea - Click Here
- Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master by Michael E. Shea - Click Here
- Age of Ravens games blog's extensive list of GM titles - Click Here
- Ironsworn by Shawn Tomkin - Click Here
- Ironsworn: Starforged by Shawn Tomkin - Click Here
- We Three Kings by Grant Howitt - Click Here
- Fiasco by Jason Morningstar - Click Here
- Honey Heist - PDF Version - Click Here
- Die: The RPG - PDF Version - Click Here
- Spire: The City Must Fall - PDF Version - Click Here
- One Last Job - PDF Version - Click Here
- Heart: The City Beneath - PDF Version - Click Here
- Eat the Reich - PDF Version - Click Here
*As an affiliate, I earn from qualifying purchases at no extra cost to you. Some of these links are affiliate links for other programs but once again, if you choose to purchase through these links, it's no extra cost to you. I only promote products or services that I have investigated and feel can deliver value to you.
Please Connect with us!
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- Find Community - Join the CTG Discord Server- https://discord.gg/UcZVE2SDe2
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Clint Scheirer (00:00):
Hey friends, Clint here.
(00:01):
Ive got something a little different for you today while I work on
some technical snags with my latest interview, im
hitting replay on the episode that continues to get The Most
Love Episode 9 Should I play with a Game
Master or Go GM list? And whether youre new to the show or
a longtime listener, this one dives deep into something we've all
wrestled with. How much structure do we really want
(00:21):
in our tabletop RPG sessions? Now this is a
little bit older, the audio'not quite as crisp, but the
insights are still gold. Stick around. This
one is worth a second Listen.
Is a GM necessary in tabletop
RPGs? Today? We'll explore this
equivocal question so you can consider which mode is
best for you and your crew when playing Goblin Quest
(00:43):
rpg, or when playing any other game for that
matter.
Welcome to Claim to Game the podcast helping
busy people master tabletop role playing games one
game at a time. I'm Clint Scheirer. I've been an
educator for over 12 years and have helped gamers of all
levels quickly grasp tabletop
RPGs so they can enjoy playing them to
(01:03):
the fullest. Stay tuned so you can make your
claim to Game
(01:41):
hello and welcome back to Episode nine,
Season one of Claim to Game, a predominantly
educational, fun podcast in which I am daring to
coin the word fun. It's like that
Tagline from the 1996 movie Twister. Don't
breathe, don't look back. Go for a ride
you'll never forget. Our podcast may not have
(02:01):
flying cows, but you will experience other delightful surprises
during our ride. Don't forget to keep your hands and feed
inside the mine vehicle at all
times.
Here we go. the game for this season
is Goblin Quest, the RPG brought to you by
game designer Grant Howitt, whose works include
but are not limited to Honey Heist, Die,
(02:22):
the RPG Spire, Unbound, One
Last Job, Heart, and most recently at the time of this
recording, Eat the Rich. In the
description for the intro of this episode, I use the
word equivocal. My dictionary goddess
of choice Merriam Webster, says this word means
having two or more possible
meetings, ambiguous meanings, or open
(02:44):
to multiple interpretations or opinions. And
that is how we're going to view the question Should I
play with a game master or go
gmless? Gmless, as you, may have
guessed, is implying we are playing a tabletop role play
game without the assigned person who acts as
the organizer, the eff officientt of the rules,
or the referee, the moderator and the overall
(03:07):
story director for what's happening within the game.
The game is built with no gm, with
mechanics to help players interact and rolepl play without
the assistance or presence of the gm.
The gm. For those of you who are like what does that
mean? It's also known by many other titles. This
position is also known as Dungeon Master,
(03:27):
Master of Ceremonies, Keeper Lore
Master, Game Mother and
Mutant Overlord. One of my favorites. And that's just
to name a few. Tabletop RPGs have
spawned many different names over the years. If you want,
there's a super crazy long list out
on Age of Ravens Games blog
(03:47):
which has a list of over 200 of
2023 and I'll include the link to that in the show notes
so you can check it out for yourself.
And the first question is how can
you play a tabletop RPG without a gm?
Isn't that a key part of even playing a
tabletop rpg? Who'snna tell me what I'm
supposed to do? Who's going toa tell me what's happening in this made
(04:09):
up world? I'm not creative enough for this. I didn't sign up
for this. Oh no. Oh geez.
All right, chill out. It's actually not as scary
as you think. But to bring us back, this is
not a right or wrong scenario. Both GM
run games and GM less games have their
tenders and tuhs. The trick for
(04:30):
you as someone who wants to play the game is figuring
out what mode of play best suits
you in light of the gamers at your table and
your personal preferences. And after this app
I think you'll make out just fine. And luckily
Goblin Quest has both modes of play
available without a lot of effort on your part. So breathe
easy, put down your paper bag haoss and let's
(04:53):
dig into it.
Let's first make the pitch for the GM list
game a fair pitch have you. With both Tenders and
Tufts. How can you even play without a gm? Some
of you ask? Well, the mechanics of the game have to help move the
story forward without a person doing that for
you. A good GM list game has a
beginning, a middle and an end that is
(05:14):
all controlled by the mechanics. A well set up
gmless game makes it easy for the players to generate
ideas for what the problem is, what the characters are going to
try to resolve, and what happens regardless of the
positive or negative outcomes of the characters. And this
entire season has been dedicated to a
great GM list game. Hint hint.
Goblin Quest, the rpg. Clearly it can be
(05:36):
played without a gm. Even though I've basically been
my own GM as I've been walking you through
and you've been following along with me since the
beginning, I could have been walking through
pregame setup as well as the short game test I
played in episode six with another person or a group
of people. If others had been at the table with me, all of
the players could have shared equal ownership in the quest
(05:59):
creation, making their characters playing out the
results of each task and stage and drawing up the final
conclusion of My Goblins horrible fates without
me GMMG them and games like Fiasco
created by Jason Morningstar, Ironsworn Sworn
or Starforged Forge created by Seaw Tomkin, a
personal hero of mine and a really stand up kind
(06:19):
dude and yes, Goblin Quest created by Grant
Howitt, also an exceptionally honest and creative
individual. They have all provided this experience
for me personally. Great games, true
gems and work fantastic in the GM
list format.
We're going to have a many tenders and tough episode
here. Remember, tenders are
(06:39):
aspects that I like right away and you can enjoy
straight out of the box. And tufts require a little
extra work or perspective to enjoy. And we're
looking at this through the lens of what are the tenders and
the tufts of a GM list game. Tender Number
one GM less games create more agency and
ownership in the storytelling of the overarching
(07:00):
narrative that is happening at the table. And since
players aren't just actors navigating through the world and reacting
to it, but instead participants who are creating
the world, the situations, its conflicts
and the resolution, it's a much more collaborative
experience. Now that's just my opinion. On a side note, it
is arguable that PCs
(07:20):
can still do this in a GM run game, but it really depends on
the expectations of the players as well as the GM
style of facilitation. Are they
given collaborative opportunities to add to the world
in the situation? Teninder #2 the GM list
game lends itself to less time preparation.
Most of the thinking is done on the spot or
(07:40):
during the preg game preparation at the table. There is little
an individual person orm would need
to do to prepare to bring anything to The
Gaming Experienceendor #3
Because of the on the spot nature of GM less games they
tend to be more spontaneous and comedic. Thats
not always it depends on the players at your table
(08:01):
but he just said but
Peter sorry couldn't help it. The
conclusion is the tender conclusion that I have for
you is that if you want a short
one shot game or a break in
between longer campaign style sessions, GM list
games could really fit the bill and be A nice
breather. But the GM list game is not for
(08:23):
everybody and here are a few toufts that I've even experienced
myself. Tough. Number one since there is
less preparation for the overall story, the goals, the
character development, etc. This could leave some
feeling let down. A player is coming to the
table hoping for a deep, purposeful,
grand scale epic proportion like
game. You might need a m
(08:46):
GM run game so it can be crafted with a little bit
more care and a little bit more
foresight. there could be exceptions to this, but the
players more or less would need to bring the expectations
that you are playing an epic scale game
to the table for a GM list game and they would
need to uphold that through the actions that they make.
(09:06):
And in my personal experience I have not felt
that when playing a GM list game.
Tough. Number two even in a GM list
game, the GMs of the world will still try
to break out like the Kool Aid man through a wall.
Have you ever experienced this? Oh no. Oh
no. Oh yeah. no matter how much a
game isn'designed to have a main leader or
(09:28):
storyteller, certain players end up just
driving the story forward in meaningful ways.
GM list games could be frustrating for these folks,
reason being they don't have the ultimate authority
or the last say in resolution. They have to be
okay with fun and having their
intentions thrown asunder when their fellow collaborative
storytellers throw their precious magical medallion meant to
(09:50):
stop the evil warlord down a jello filled
well of rainbows and stardust farts.
Right? It's so frustrating when you want something to
be cool and epic and it ends up
being silly and comedic. The expectations
really matter, as does the intervention of the GM
to uphold whatever it is that your players want
at the table. So with the GM list game, that can be
(10:13):
hard. And my final tough is that GM less
games, at least the ones that I've set up or played, tend
to be more focused on a one shot
story and an experience
that's in and out rather than a
long extended gameplay. There are certainly some
exceptions to this rule, such as Ironsworn Sworn or
Starforged Forge, once again designed by Seaw Hopkins,
(10:36):
personal hero of mine. But in our game of
focus, Goblin Quest, the one shot experience is
the desired result. So you want to set
your expectations towards the experience
that can be enjoyable for all of your players at the table. That
is the summary of the tough here. Quick
pause on the show. Have you been listening to this first season of
(10:56):
CTG and do not yet have your very own
copy of Goblin Quest? The RPG
Picture yourself pretending to be gross grotty little
buggers on your next game night with your closest
friends, laughs, Goofs and Goblins.
Don't wait. Enjoy your copy of Goblin Quest, the
RPG today by clicking on the link in the
Show Notes. You'll be wreaking havoc all over the Great Battle
(11:18):
Camp in no time. All right, back to the
show.
Shifting Gears let's make a fair pitch
for the GM M Run game and how do people
play GM run games? The answer to this question may seem
silly for anybody who has frequented tables
of tabletop RPG games before, because
this is kind of the status quo.
(11:39):
As mentioned earlier, the game master, regardless of his
or her specific game title,
is the assigned person who acts as the
organizer, the officiant, the rules referee,
the moderator, and overall story director
for the happenings within the game. They can,
but aren't always the person who organized the game into
(11:59):
existence, scheduled the game with the players for the date and
time and location of play. It is the
GM's role to at least have an
idea of the adventure that is being run
and the rules and mechanics of the game prior to everyone
meeting up. There are many opinions on how much
preparation is needed by a GM to make the game run
smoothly. Anywhere from minimal to no
(12:21):
preparation to those who say every single important
detail should be mapped out and accounted
for. Again, no wrong way to
do things here, but the idea is that the GM is
giving a starting structure to the game session
direction at the beginning, throughout the
middle and the end. They're the person who keeps
things moving along with most tabletop RPGs
(12:44):
when the players describe what they want to do and
then roll their dice, spin their spinners or whatever it
is that determines the results of their character's actions.
The GM is the interpreter who takes
the results positive, negative, neutral and then
describes them out loud to the players and how
these results play out in the made up world of the game.
(13:05):
The GM is like the omniscient
storyteller, the author of the book, the
godlike mover of pieces behind the curtain. They
orchestrate the game to allow players to feel as
much power and satisfaction or
despair behind their decision as possible,
while also ensuring that boundaries, restrictions and
rewards are dealt out in a reasonably
(13:26):
believable fashion. Now, I hope that I'm getting across to
you my extreme respect for
anybody who takes on this role. It can be a lot of work.
It can also be a lot of fun. So for
this reason it's time for another Tenders
and tougfts I am sure that we could get McDonald's to start
selling these with the right marketing. Maybe a little barbecue sauce. But
(13:46):
remember, tenders are tasty right out of the
box, easy to enjoy, little effort and toughs.
You need a little extra work or perspective to enjoy.
Tender number one for the GM Run game
the GM run game has always given
me a more amazing plot and story
experience. This is likely due to the planning in the
(14:07):
preparation prior to running the game. The GM can
establish truths about the world or the story
in order to make the players discover them
in a way that feels authentic.
describing real world truths or
if you were watching a movie or reading a book
to find out what happens next. It gives a sense of
discovery that sometimes feels
(14:29):
absent from a GM list game where it's more
on the spot in the moment and you're hearing
other players create these truths as you go.
Tender number two of the GM Run game. The
GM is able to reign in unruly
players that are getting out of hand. they are the
enforcer. Ah, ga the chopper
Now. I was playing one of Grant
(14:51):
Howit's one page tabletop RPGs during this holiday
season. It was called WI3 Kings. Though it
was not historically accurate, it was
pretty sweet getting to take control of the
magi who instead of just visiting baby Jesus, were
coming to save him from the evil intentions of the evil
King Herod. but during the game we had
(15:11):
so much fun and if I could have recorded it I would have
because it was non stop goofs and
laughter. But that was our purpose to be silly and over
the top. Had we gone into that game wanting to
accomplish actual goals and have a completely
satisfying epic serious story, we would have
had more sour than a sour patch Kid. Drink a
(15:31):
lemonade. one of the players actually was opposing
another player during the gameplay which brought several
rounds of the game to a standstill until one player
finally bowed out of the conflict to move on to the next part of
the adventure. We got bored and we're like okay, let keep let's keep
moving here. If a GM had been running the game, he or
she could have curb the player against
(15:52):
player action, set the expectation
pregame that this wouldn't be allowed so that we could
cohesively work together for a common goal and we could
have moved on much quicker. The GM is like
the rudder of the game ship. Keeps things on
course, keeps things from syncing. And the final
tender for GM Run games is really
for the players. All the players have to worry about
(16:14):
is their own character, their own actions, their
own backstory, their own part of the narrative. They can
relax and allow themselves to be immersed in the
world created or at least shared by the
gm. So the conclusion for the Tenders here is
There is a reason tabletop RPGs have
a strong portfolio of GM run games.
(16:34):
Having a captain, a president, the glue holding it
all together produces in most cases, a
unique experience with satisfying
results.
On the flip side, let's talk about touhs for the
GM run game. Tough Number one this
first tough is my only tough, but has a few
parts to it. And from what I've seen at least from the
(16:54):
RPG community on Reddit, it is truly a
matter of personal opinion. As I was skimming and
delving into this thread, I saw a lot
of IMHO M in my humble opinion
and everybody had a humble opinion about this one
tough which is GM
Fatigue all right, part one. My
definition of this is that you are a GM
(17:17):
who is tired of being the gamer who is always putting the
work of scheduling, preparing and running the
game. You would like someone else in your group to step
up and take a turn with this, maybe even alternate with you
so that you can be a player and recoup from the
responsibility, time and effort needed to run a
good campaign or a game. Some
folks would always choose to be the
(17:39):
forever gm. They dont like being a player and they
dont enjoy when somebody else is in charge and gets to make the
final calls during gameplay. I am not one of these
people. Im okay with others being in charge once in a
while. I would even enjoy getting to explore
my role as a playeruse preparation
takes time. This is part two.
(18:00):
Even with excellent resources like Mike Shays, the
Lazy Dungeon Master and his sequel Return of the Lazy
Dungeon Master, giving tips to GMs on how to save
time, planning only the aspects of the game that are
truly important and impactful. It still takes time and
effort. If you are a forever player,
think about how nice it is to just show up with your character
(18:20):
sheet, your dice, your pencil. Or maybe that's all
provided to you by the gm. Even, it's nice,
right? To show up and play and just have fun as you are.
My guess is that some GMs out there
would also like to just be able to show up for an
epic GM run game as a player and have some of
those same luxuries as well. I know I would. Since
(18:41):
this doesn't happen within my circle of gamers.
I've felt that fatigue in my own bones.
part Number three, being on during
the game. This adds to my GM fatigue.
And by that I mean the GM is required to be a
part of most, if not all interaction happening
at the table. They're listening to each player
(19:02):
describing their actions. They're playing
NPCs or monsters if they are, a part of the
scene, asking questions about what the players will do
next and improving things on the spot
that they may or likely have not prepared
for. It's exhilarating, it's
wonderful. But it can be tiring.
being an introvert myself, someone
(19:24):
who recharges by being alone,
not speaking. These experiences, no matter
how enjoyable, are exhausting to me personally. And
for those extroverts out there, you may be like, no, no no,
feed me more. Good for
you. Not all of us have the insatiable
appetite of a full grown bull moose. So I'm going to do my
best to summarize the
(19:46):
conclusion of this tough the issue I run into
is the commitment from those in my immediate community,
jobs, family. Other commitments make it very
scary for those who are fully in love with the
hobby to want to commit to being a GM on a regular
basis. This fear, this hesitation. It's
perfectly valid. Though it would be nice to
alternate GMs. There are some groups where this just
(20:08):
isn't a option. There just
aren't enough members of the group who are able to
commit to that level for
gaming. And for those of you out there with GM
fatigue, you love doing it, but you want to trade on
and off sometimes. This is where I have
personally found GM list games to be such a
fantastic alternative for short term breaks.
(20:30):
Prep is minimal, everyone gets to be a player,
and I get to recharge my creative juices in a
different way. For those of you who feel like GM fatigue
is another phrase for GMs who just can't hack it
or aren't true GMs, that's fine. I'm not
afraid to admit that some are built to be forever
GMs, and that's just not me. Whether you
(20:50):
identify with my sentiments or prefer to write it off,
just remember there are room for all types at the
table.
Final Thoughts okay, so how does
this tie in into our current season? How does it tie
into our current game, Goblin Quest, the
rpg? Well, let me make it clear, I
appreciate and enjoy both modes of play
(21:11):
GM run games as well as GM list
games. Regardless of Tenders and Tufts, each has
its place. And this is why I appreciate
that Grant Howitt, when writing the game, gave the option to
play with or without a GM for you,
forever GMs out there. You can still enjoy the thrill
of doing what you love best, facilitating an
absolutely terrific experience while maintaining
(21:33):
a level of control and order. Are you out
there who feel that GM fatigue and just want
to be a player? Even if you don't have a replacement GM
for the evening, you can play this bad boy GMless
game without so much as a sneeze or a hiccup in
the planning process. A few things to consider
with Goblin Quest when you do decide which mode
(21:54):
of play is for you. Page 54 is
the section in the Goblin Quest RPG book advising
how to play the game with the GM. The game was
naturally designed to be played without a gm.
The way Ive laid it out in season one is assuming
no GM is at the table, only players.
If you do decide to play with the GM you are given a few
(22:14):
options with varying degrees of normal GM
responsibilities. Option one you can
be a traditional GM. This is the role most
GMs take when running tabletop RPGs. The GM
takes control of all NPC voices and
actions. The GM helps walk the players through
creating their quests and tasks, stages,
setbacks, etc. The GM is in
(22:37):
charge of narrating Goblin deaths and can
describe what happens as a result of the player
dice rolls though Grant encourages the GM to
push the interpretation back on the players to encourage
the spirit of collaboration. Option
2 the facilitator this is more
like a hands off GM. Its the facilitators job
to learn and teach the rules, reminding the other
(23:00):
players of the rules if they forget. But this
person still gets to play on their own with their own goblins.
This was the role that I took when I tested the game with my
friends and I still had a pretty good time.
Option three is Cartographer. This could be
included with the previous responsibilities but if you just want to
be the one drawing on a whiteboard, grid, paper
(23:20):
or map that you've created for the group to give them a visual
of the Goblins locations and antics. Knock
yourself out or you can go assign it to another
person within the group who likes to draw. And
option number four is the questmaster
and we covered this in episode six how to play
the game and mark successes achieved per stage
during the quest to help you move throughout the different
(23:43):
tasks and help move the story forward to the
conclusion of the game. If all the players dont want to
keep track of this individually on their own and on their own
character sheet, one person can do it and just keep
everybody up to pace. So whether you play
with or without a gm, this game has room for both
types of play. Possibly try doing both,
but maybe not at the same time. That would be hard.
(24:06):
Reach out via, email to Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com
shireaimtogamepodcast.com
and let me know if you have a preference with Goblin Quest.
Playing with or without a GM or even just with tabletop
RPGs in general. What do you prefer
and why? It's kind of like a teacher telling you to show your
work. Just do it. Join us next
week. What's that? You love the
(24:27):
CTG podcast but find it could get lost in a
mix of notifications you get throughout the week. What
if there was an effortless way for you to never
miss another episode or important deets
released ever again? Well my friend, that's exactly
what happens when you are a part of the Lounge.
The Lounge is our podcast newsletter, ready.
And waiting for you to be a.
(24:48):
Part of and enjoy. Go ahead and click on the link in the show
notes to sign up today. It'time for
you to relax and be in the know and
until the next time we make our claim to game. One
game at a time.
Okay?
Wow.
That was a blast from the past.
And a lot has changed here on.
The CTG podcast, but its good to be able to go back
(25:09):
to my roots and remember where I came from. Thanks for
taking this rewind with me. If this episode got
you thinking or gave you permission to rethink how
you run your own sessions, do me a.
Favor, share it with your crew. If youd like to Hear more about.
GM list tabletop RPGs Ill put a link in the show notes to
episode 35 top 5 best GM
list tabletop RPGs. Ill be back on
(25:31):
July 31st with that brand new episode I mentioned
featuring Anthony from the Daily dm. trust me its
worth the wait. Until then keep having a great time with
friends and telling amazing stories. Your Tabletop role playing
games.
Hey friends, Clint here.
(00:01):
Ive got something a little different for you today while I work on
some technical snags with my latest interview, im
hitting replay on the episode that continues to get The Most
Love Episode 9 Should I play with a Game
Master or Go GM list? And whether youre new to the show or
a longtime listener, this one dives deep into something we've all
wrestled with. How much structure do we really want
(00:21):
in our tabletop RPG sessions? Now this is a
little bit older, the audio'not quite as crisp, but the
insights are still gold. Stick around. This
one is worth a second Listen.
Is a GM necessary in tabletop
RPGs? Today? We'll explore this
equivocal question so you can consider which mode is
best for you and your crew when playing Goblin Quest
(00:43):
rpg, or when playing any other game for that
matter.
Welcome to Claim to Game the podcast helping
busy people master tabletop role playing games one
game at a time. I'm Clint Scheirer. I've been an
educator for over 12 years and have helped gamers of all
levels quickly grasp tabletop
RPGs so they can enjoy playing them to
(01:03):
the fullest. Stay tuned so you can make your
claim to Game
(01:41):
hello and welcome back to Episode nine,
Season one of Claim to Game, a predominantly
educational, fun podcast in which I am daring to
coin the word fun. It's like that
Tagline from the 1996 movie Twister. Don't
breathe, don't look back. Go for a ride
you'll never forget. Our podcast may not have
(02:01):
flying cows, but you will experience other delightful surprises
during our ride. Don't forget to keep your hands and feed
inside the mine vehicle at all
times.
Here we go. the game for this season
is Goblin Quest, the RPG brought to you by
game designer Grant Howitt, whose works include
but are not limited to Honey Heist, Die,
(02:22):
the RPG Spire, Unbound, One
Last Job, Heart, and most recently at the time of this
recording, Eat the Rich. In the
description for the intro of this episode, I use the
word equivocal. My dictionary goddess
of choice Merriam Webster, says this word means
having two or more possible
meetings, ambiguous meanings, or open
(02:44):
to multiple interpretations or opinions. And
that is how we're going to view the question Should I
play with a game master or go
gmless? Gmless, as you, may have
guessed, is implying we are playing a tabletop role play
game without the assigned person who acts as
the organizer, the eff officientt of the rules,
or the referee, the moderator and the overall
(03:07):
story director for what's happening within the game.
The game is built with no gm, with
mechanics to help players interact and rolepl play without
the assistance or presence of the gm.
The gm. For those of you who are like what does that
mean? It's also known by many other titles. This
position is also known as Dungeon Master,
(03:27):
Master of Ceremonies, Keeper Lore
Master, Game Mother and
Mutant Overlord. One of my favorites. And that's just
to name a few. Tabletop RPGs have
spawned many different names over the years. If you want,
there's a super crazy long list out
on Age of Ravens Games blog
(03:47):
which has a list of over 200 of
2023 and I'll include the link to that in the show notes
so you can check it out for yourself.
And the first question is how can
you play a tabletop RPG without a gm?
Isn't that a key part of even playing a
tabletop rpg? Who'snna tell me what I'm
supposed to do? Who's going toa tell me what's happening in this made
(04:09):
up world? I'm not creative enough for this. I didn't sign up
for this. Oh no. Oh geez.
All right, chill out. It's actually not as scary
as you think. But to bring us back, this is
not a right or wrong scenario. Both GM
run games and GM less games have their
tenders and tuhs. The trick for
(04:30):
you as someone who wants to play the game is figuring
out what mode of play best suits
you in light of the gamers at your table and
your personal preferences. And after this app
I think you'll make out just fine. And luckily
Goblin Quest has both modes of play
available without a lot of effort on your part. So breathe
easy, put down your paper bag haoss and let's
(04:53):
dig into it.
Let's first make the pitch for the GM list
game a fair pitch have you. With both Tenders and
Tufts. How can you even play without a gm? Some
of you ask? Well, the mechanics of the game have to help move the
story forward without a person doing that for
you. A good GM list game has a
beginning, a middle and an end that is
(05:14):
all controlled by the mechanics. A well set up
gmless game makes it easy for the players to generate
ideas for what the problem is, what the characters are going to
try to resolve, and what happens regardless of the
positive or negative outcomes of the characters. And this
entire season has been dedicated to a
great GM list game. Hint hint.
Goblin Quest, the rpg. Clearly it can be
(05:36):
played without a gm. Even though I've basically been
my own GM as I've been walking you through
and you've been following along with me since the
beginning, I could have been walking through
pregame setup as well as the short game test I
played in episode six with another person or a group
of people. If others had been at the table with me, all of
the players could have shared equal ownership in the quest
(05:59):
creation, making their characters playing out the
results of each task and stage and drawing up the final
conclusion of My Goblins horrible fates without
me GMMG them and games like Fiasco
created by Jason Morningstar, Ironsworn Sworn
or Starforged Forge created by Seaw Tomkin, a
personal hero of mine and a really stand up kind
(06:19):
dude and yes, Goblin Quest created by Grant
Howitt, also an exceptionally honest and creative
individual. They have all provided this experience
for me personally. Great games, true
gems and work fantastic in the GM
list format.
We're going to have a many tenders and tough episode
here. Remember, tenders are
(06:39):
aspects that I like right away and you can enjoy
straight out of the box. And tufts require a little
extra work or perspective to enjoy. And we're
looking at this through the lens of what are the tenders and
the tufts of a GM list game. Tender Number
one GM less games create more agency and
ownership in the storytelling of the overarching
(07:00):
narrative that is happening at the table. And since
players aren't just actors navigating through the world and reacting
to it, but instead participants who are creating
the world, the situations, its conflicts
and the resolution, it's a much more collaborative
experience. Now that's just my opinion. On a side note, it
is arguable that PCs
(07:20):
can still do this in a GM run game, but it really depends on
the expectations of the players as well as the GM
style of facilitation. Are they
given collaborative opportunities to add to the world
in the situation? Teninder #2 the GM list
game lends itself to less time preparation.
Most of the thinking is done on the spot or
(07:40):
during the preg game preparation at the table. There is little
an individual person orm would need
to do to prepare to bring anything to The
Gaming Experienceendor #3
Because of the on the spot nature of GM less games they
tend to be more spontaneous and comedic. Thats
not always it depends on the players at your table
(08:01):
but he just said but
Peter sorry couldn't help it. The
conclusion is the tender conclusion that I have for
you is that if you want a short
one shot game or a break in
between longer campaign style sessions, GM list
games could really fit the bill and be A nice
breather. But the GM list game is not for
(08:23):
everybody and here are a few toufts that I've even experienced
myself. Tough. Number one since there is
less preparation for the overall story, the goals, the
character development, etc. This could leave some
feeling let down. A player is coming to the
table hoping for a deep, purposeful,
grand scale epic proportion like
game. You might need a m
(08:46):
GM run game so it can be crafted with a little bit
more care and a little bit more
foresight. there could be exceptions to this, but the
players more or less would need to bring the expectations
that you are playing an epic scale game
to the table for a GM list game and they would
need to uphold that through the actions that they make.
(09:06):
And in my personal experience I have not felt
that when playing a GM list game.
Tough. Number two even in a GM list
game, the GMs of the world will still try
to break out like the Kool Aid man through a wall.
Have you ever experienced this? Oh no. Oh
no. Oh yeah. no matter how much a
game isn'designed to have a main leader or
(09:28):
storyteller, certain players end up just
driving the story forward in meaningful ways.
GM list games could be frustrating for these folks,
reason being they don't have the ultimate authority
or the last say in resolution. They have to be
okay with fun and having their
intentions thrown asunder when their fellow collaborative
storytellers throw their precious magical medallion meant to
(09:50):
stop the evil warlord down a jello filled
well of rainbows and stardust farts.
Right? It's so frustrating when you want something to
be cool and epic and it ends up
being silly and comedic. The expectations
really matter, as does the intervention of the GM
to uphold whatever it is that your players want
at the table. So with the GM list game, that can be
(10:13):
hard. And my final tough is that GM less
games, at least the ones that I've set up or played, tend
to be more focused on a one shot
story and an experience
that's in and out rather than a
long extended gameplay. There are certainly some
exceptions to this rule, such as Ironsworn Sworn or
Starforged Forge, once again designed by Seaw Hopkins,
(10:36):
personal hero of mine. But in our game of
focus, Goblin Quest, the one shot experience is
the desired result. So you want to set
your expectations towards the experience
that can be enjoyable for all of your players at the table. That
is the summary of the tough here. Quick
pause on the show. Have you been listening to this first season of
(10:56):
CTG and do not yet have your very own
copy of Goblin Quest? The RPG
Picture yourself pretending to be gross grotty little
buggers on your next game night with your closest
friends, laughs, Goofs and Goblins.
Don't wait. Enjoy your copy of Goblin Quest, the
RPG today by clicking on the link in the
Show Notes. You'll be wreaking havoc all over the Great Battle
(11:18):
Camp in no time. All right, back to the
show.
Shifting Gears let's make a fair pitch
for the GM M Run game and how do people
play GM run games? The answer to this question may seem
silly for anybody who has frequented tables
of tabletop RPG games before, because
this is kind of the status quo.
(11:39):
As mentioned earlier, the game master, regardless of his
or her specific game title,
is the assigned person who acts as the
organizer, the officiant, the rules referee,
the moderator, and overall story director
for the happenings within the game. They can,
but aren't always the person who organized the game into
(11:59):
existence, scheduled the game with the players for the date and
time and location of play. It is the
GM's role to at least have an
idea of the adventure that is being run
and the rules and mechanics of the game prior to everyone
meeting up. There are many opinions on how much
preparation is needed by a GM to make the game run
smoothly. Anywhere from minimal to no
(12:21):
preparation to those who say every single important
detail should be mapped out and accounted
for. Again, no wrong way to
do things here, but the idea is that the GM is
giving a starting structure to the game session
direction at the beginning, throughout the
middle and the end. They're the person who keeps
things moving along with most tabletop RPGs
(12:44):
when the players describe what they want to do and
then roll their dice, spin their spinners or whatever it
is that determines the results of their character's actions.
The GM is the interpreter who takes
the results positive, negative, neutral and then
describes them out loud to the players and how
these results play out in the made up world of the game.
(13:05):
The GM is like the omniscient
storyteller, the author of the book, the
godlike mover of pieces behind the curtain. They
orchestrate the game to allow players to feel as
much power and satisfaction or
despair behind their decision as possible,
while also ensuring that boundaries, restrictions and
rewards are dealt out in a reasonably
(13:26):
believable fashion. Now, I hope that I'm getting across to
you my extreme respect for
anybody who takes on this role. It can be a lot of work.
It can also be a lot of fun. So for
this reason it's time for another Tenders
and tougfts I am sure that we could get McDonald's to start
selling these with the right marketing. Maybe a little barbecue sauce. But
(13:46):
remember, tenders are tasty right out of the
box, easy to enjoy, little effort and toughs.
You need a little extra work or perspective to enjoy.
Tender number one for the GM Run game
the GM run game has always given
me a more amazing plot and story
experience. This is likely due to the planning in the
(14:07):
preparation prior to running the game. The GM can
establish truths about the world or the story
in order to make the players discover them
in a way that feels authentic.
describing real world truths or
if you were watching a movie or reading a book
to find out what happens next. It gives a sense of
discovery that sometimes feels
(14:29):
absent from a GM list game where it's more
on the spot in the moment and you're hearing
other players create these truths as you go.
Tender number two of the GM Run game. The
GM is able to reign in unruly
players that are getting out of hand. they are the
enforcer. Ah, ga the chopper
Now. I was playing one of Grant
(14:51):
Howit's one page tabletop RPGs during this holiday
season. It was called WI3 Kings. Though it
was not historically accurate, it was
pretty sweet getting to take control of the
magi who instead of just visiting baby Jesus, were
coming to save him from the evil intentions of the evil
King Herod. but during the game we had
(15:11):
so much fun and if I could have recorded it I would have
because it was non stop goofs and
laughter. But that was our purpose to be silly and over
the top. Had we gone into that game wanting to
accomplish actual goals and have a completely
satisfying epic serious story, we would have
had more sour than a sour patch Kid. Drink a
(15:31):
lemonade. one of the players actually was opposing
another player during the gameplay which brought several
rounds of the game to a standstill until one player
finally bowed out of the conflict to move on to the next part of
the adventure. We got bored and we're like okay, let keep let's keep
moving here. If a GM had been running the game, he or
she could have curb the player against
(15:52):
player action, set the expectation
pregame that this wouldn't be allowed so that we could
cohesively work together for a common goal and we could
have moved on much quicker. The GM is like
the rudder of the game ship. Keeps things on
course, keeps things from syncing. And the final
tender for GM Run games is really
for the players. All the players have to worry about
(16:14):
is their own character, their own actions, their
own backstory, their own part of the narrative. They can
relax and allow themselves to be immersed in the
world created or at least shared by the
gm. So the conclusion for the Tenders here is
There is a reason tabletop RPGs have
a strong portfolio of GM run games.
(16:34):
Having a captain, a president, the glue holding it
all together produces in most cases, a
unique experience with satisfying
results.
On the flip side, let's talk about touhs for the
GM run game. Tough Number one this
first tough is my only tough, but has a few
parts to it. And from what I've seen at least from the
(16:54):
RPG community on Reddit, it is truly a
matter of personal opinion. As I was skimming and
delving into this thread, I saw a lot
of IMHO M in my humble opinion
and everybody had a humble opinion about this one
tough which is GM
Fatigue all right, part one. My
definition of this is that you are a GM
(17:17):
who is tired of being the gamer who is always putting the
work of scheduling, preparing and running the
game. You would like someone else in your group to step
up and take a turn with this, maybe even alternate with you
so that you can be a player and recoup from the
responsibility, time and effort needed to run a
good campaign or a game. Some
folks would always choose to be the
(17:39):
forever gm. They dont like being a player and they
dont enjoy when somebody else is in charge and gets to make the
final calls during gameplay. I am not one of these
people. Im okay with others being in charge once in a
while. I would even enjoy getting to explore
my role as a playeruse preparation
takes time. This is part two.
(18:00):
Even with excellent resources like Mike Shays, the
Lazy Dungeon Master and his sequel Return of the Lazy
Dungeon Master, giving tips to GMs on how to save
time, planning only the aspects of the game that are
truly important and impactful. It still takes time and
effort. If you are a forever player,
think about how nice it is to just show up with your character
(18:20):
sheet, your dice, your pencil. Or maybe that's all
provided to you by the gm. Even, it's nice,
right? To show up and play and just have fun as you are.
My guess is that some GMs out there
would also like to just be able to show up for an
epic GM run game as a player and have some of
those same luxuries as well. I know I would. Since
(18:41):
this doesn't happen within my circle of gamers.
I've felt that fatigue in my own bones.
part Number three, being on during
the game. This adds to my GM fatigue.
And by that I mean the GM is required to be a
part of most, if not all interaction happening
at the table. They're listening to each player
(19:02):
describing their actions. They're playing
NPCs or monsters if they are, a part of the
scene, asking questions about what the players will do
next and improving things on the spot
that they may or likely have not prepared
for. It's exhilarating, it's
wonderful. But it can be tiring.
being an introvert myself, someone
(19:24):
who recharges by being alone,
not speaking. These experiences, no matter
how enjoyable, are exhausting to me personally. And
for those extroverts out there, you may be like, no, no no,
feed me more. Good for
you. Not all of us have the insatiable
appetite of a full grown bull moose. So I'm going to do my
best to summarize the
(19:46):
conclusion of this tough the issue I run into
is the commitment from those in my immediate community,
jobs, family. Other commitments make it very
scary for those who are fully in love with the
hobby to want to commit to being a GM on a regular
basis. This fear, this hesitation. It's
perfectly valid. Though it would be nice to
alternate GMs. There are some groups where this just
(20:08):
isn't a option. There just
aren't enough members of the group who are able to
commit to that level for
gaming. And for those of you out there with GM
fatigue, you love doing it, but you want to trade on
and off sometimes. This is where I have
personally found GM list games to be such a
fantastic alternative for short term breaks.
(20:30):
Prep is minimal, everyone gets to be a player,
and I get to recharge my creative juices in a
different way. For those of you who feel like GM fatigue
is another phrase for GMs who just can't hack it
or aren't true GMs, that's fine. I'm not
afraid to admit that some are built to be forever
GMs, and that's just not me. Whether you
(20:50):
identify with my sentiments or prefer to write it off,
just remember there are room for all types at the
table.
Final Thoughts okay, so how does
this tie in into our current season? How does it tie
into our current game, Goblin Quest, the
rpg? Well, let me make it clear, I
appreciate and enjoy both modes of play
(21:11):
GM run games as well as GM list
games. Regardless of Tenders and Tufts, each has
its place. And this is why I appreciate
that Grant Howitt, when writing the game, gave the option to
play with or without a GM for you,
forever GMs out there. You can still enjoy the thrill
of doing what you love best, facilitating an
absolutely terrific experience while maintaining
(21:33):
a level of control and order. Are you out
there who feel that GM fatigue and just want
to be a player? Even if you don't have a replacement GM
for the evening, you can play this bad boy GMless
game without so much as a sneeze or a hiccup in
the planning process. A few things to consider
with Goblin Quest when you do decide which mode
(21:54):
of play is for you. Page 54 is
the section in the Goblin Quest RPG book advising
how to play the game with the GM. The game was
naturally designed to be played without a gm.
The way Ive laid it out in season one is assuming
no GM is at the table, only players.
If you do decide to play with the GM you are given a few
(22:14):
options with varying degrees of normal GM
responsibilities. Option one you can
be a traditional GM. This is the role most
GMs take when running tabletop RPGs. The GM
takes control of all NPC voices and
actions. The GM helps walk the players through
creating their quests and tasks, stages,
setbacks, etc. The GM is in
(22:37):
charge of narrating Goblin deaths and can
describe what happens as a result of the player
dice rolls though Grant encourages the GM to
push the interpretation back on the players to encourage
the spirit of collaboration. Option
2 the facilitator this is more
like a hands off GM. Its the facilitators job
to learn and teach the rules, reminding the other
(23:00):
players of the rules if they forget. But this
person still gets to play on their own with their own goblins.
This was the role that I took when I tested the game with my
friends and I still had a pretty good time.
Option three is Cartographer. This could be
included with the previous responsibilities but if you just want to
be the one drawing on a whiteboard, grid, paper
(23:20):
or map that you've created for the group to give them a visual
of the Goblins locations and antics. Knock
yourself out or you can go assign it to another
person within the group who likes to draw. And
option number four is the questmaster
and we covered this in episode six how to play
the game and mark successes achieved per stage
during the quest to help you move throughout the different
(23:43):
tasks and help move the story forward to the
conclusion of the game. If all the players dont want to
keep track of this individually on their own and on their own
character sheet, one person can do it and just keep
everybody up to pace. So whether you play
with or without a gm, this game has room for both
types of play. Possibly try doing both,
but maybe not at the same time. That would be hard.
(24:06):
Reach out via, email to Clint.Scheirer@claimtogamepodcast.com
shireaimtogamepodcast.com
and let me know if you have a preference with Goblin Quest.
Playing with or without a GM or even just with tabletop
RPGs in general. What do you prefer
and why? It's kind of like a teacher telling you to show your
work. Just do it. Join us next
week. What's that? You love the
(24:27):
CTG podcast but find it could get lost in a
mix of notifications you get throughout the week. What
if there was an effortless way for you to never
miss another episode or important deets
released ever again? Well my friend, that's exactly
what happens when you are a part of the Lounge.
The Lounge is our podcast newsletter, ready.
And waiting for you to be a.
(24:48):
Part of and enjoy. Go ahead and click on the link in the show
notes to sign up today. It'time for
you to relax and be in the know and
until the next time we make our claim to game. One
game at a time.
Okay?
Wow.
That was a blast from the past.
And a lot has changed here on.
The CTG podcast, but its good to be able to go back
(25:09):
to my roots and remember where I came from. Thanks for
taking this rewind with me. If this episode got
you thinking or gave you permission to rethink how
you run your own sessions, do me a.
Favor, share it with your crew. If youd like to Hear more about.
GM list tabletop RPGs Ill put a link in the show notes to
episode 35 top 5 best GM
list tabletop RPGs. Ill be back on
(25:31):
July 31st with that brand new episode I mentioned
featuring Anthony from the Daily dm. trust me its
worth the wait. Until then keep having a great time with
friends and telling amazing stories. Your Tabletop role playing
games.
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