EP 18: Bigfoot ft. Robert from Cabin in the Woods YouTube

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
My name is Robert Maxwell. I live here in the forest of Northern Ontario, Canada in a cabin.

(00:06):
I built myself with my wife and daughter, and I've always been a forest guy, a wilderness guy,
and since I was pretty young, I had a strong interest in Bigfoot and mysterious topics in
general. The YouTube channel that I run is called Cabin in the Woods, and it wasn't originally
started as a Bigfoot channel. It morphed into that after a bizarre paradigm shifting experience

(00:34):
I had last year, September 2024, in Vancouver Island on the west coast in British Columbia.
That shifted my focus on my YouTube channel and largely in my life to the mindset that I now have
and have had ever since, which is I want to know the truth of what Bigfoot or Sasquatch is,

(00:58):
and I will go as far as I need to go to get those answers. That's me, and that's what I do.
You just answered one of my questions because in the outline of the episode,
Josh mentioned that to talk about your experience if you have one. I wasn't sure. I watched a bunch
of your videos, and they were awesome, by the way. I got to give you your flowers because

(01:23):
yeah, I mean, they're so dense with information. I found myself just hitting play on one while I
was eating some chips or something like that, just unwinding for the night, and I was just like,
my eyes are just glued like, oh my god, it was like fact after fact after fact after fact.
And before you know it, the episode was over, and I'm just like, whoa. And I tried to go back

(01:45):
to see if I could find life you had your own experience, and I wasn't quite sure. Josh mentioned
that he thought that you maybe did, but we weren't under percent sure, so that confirms it.
And it makes sense. Cabin in the woods, I was like, what does that do with the Sasquatch? But
again, as you just put everything together, so it started as a homesteading channel more or
less, like building the cabin and things like that. Yes, exactly. Well, if you look back up,

(02:10):
so I've now more or less shifted entirely to Bigfoot or occasionally other cryptids, but
a very different focus than the original intent of the YouTube channel, as I said, it was a homesteading
DIY type of channel before. I like building stuff with my hands, always have, including
this house, as I said, so that's that's what I was focused on. And I wasn't going to Vancouver Island

(02:36):
to have an experience. But after I did have an experience, I had a close friend suggest to me,
just kind of in an offhanded way in a casual conversation that, hey, you should sit down and
just get the camera rolling and tell your story and put it on your YouTube channel. And at the time,
I was fairly frustrated with YouTube, actually, because I'd been putting a lot of effort into

(03:02):
it for a long time. And I had hoped that it would turn into an additional income stream for my family.
My wife is a stay at home mother. So financially, taking care of the three of us is on me. And it's
something I've always taken seriously as a responsibility. So hoping to build YouTube into
something that was financially viable was a focus. And that wasn't happening with the homestead stuff,

(03:27):
which was puzzling to me with my professional videography background, I thought I was making
some pretty good stuff. But you know, the algorithm or forces, the powers that be decided
that nothing much took off. I mean, I had a few videos do well. But I had this experience,
and I just made this very bare bones, simple 45 minute video where I'm sitting in my yard in the

(03:50):
middle of the woods here. And I just told what happened. And it got like 80,000 views in a couple
of weeks, which was a very outlier good performance compared to what I'd seen previously.
From there, I kind of gradually came to the decision that, well, this happened to me,

(04:11):
and it's affected me. And I've always been interested in Bigfoot and similar topics.
But now I, now I just I have to know more, no matter what it takes. So why not take other people
on that journey using my film background and the skills I gained through that.
And kind of as I learned things, share those things in a high quality video package with

(04:38):
each step in that learning process. So that's what I've been doing ever since for the last 26
videos. Yeah, it lit a spark in you. I'm really curious to hear this story. If you're open to
sharing at least cliff notes of it, I want to try to direct people back to that video for you.
But I have a sense right now that you and I are kindred spirits. And we'll I'll touch on that

(05:01):
later. But could you could you share what happened and what your experience was?
Absolutely. So back in September, 2024, my wife and daughter and I were
taking a morning walk in this tiny shaded backyard of the small rental cottage we'd

(05:23):
gotten on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. And this yard was surrounded by massive redwood
and sequoia trees in all directions, beautiful forested area, a dozen different beaches within
a mile or two at the most. And my daughter and I, on this particular morning, were
walking over to the chicken coop owned by the gentleman who had rented this cottage to us.

(05:47):
He had a deal where you could collect eggs as many as you liked from his chickens
and use them for your breakfast, no extra cost. So being a country guy, I grew up with chickens.
My daughter has not yet had chickens. We want to get them. But she was super excited. So we were
doing that. And I ran into the gentleman, the owner. He happened to be outside with a bag of

(06:10):
chicken feet. He was feeding the animals. He had some goats as well in the next paddock over. So
I'm immediately taken aback in a good way. And a smile spread across across my face when I saw
the gentleman because he was wearing a big foot t-shirt, great big, you know, classic
patty looking big foot on his t-shirt, middle aged guy. So it kind of, you know, it caught my

(06:31):
attention. I wasn't expecting that. So I struck up a conversation as quickly as I could. And
just about as soon as politely possible, I asked him if he'd ever had an encounter, you know,
Vancouver Island, West Coast, forest all around this little hamlet where we were staying.

(06:53):
Exactly. Yeah. So the tone of the conversation shifted abruptly, though, when I when I asked
that question. And this conversation, it got weird. And this is what started the
multifaceted weirdness of my experience. The gentleman got visibly uncomfortable when I asked

(07:14):
him about his own experience. He kind of, he was looking at me, but then he shifted his gaze to
the ground and wouldn't make direct eye contact. And I thought, okay, have I, you know, overstepped
here or something? And he answers, no, I haven't personally had an encounter. But I know people
who have. And then he sort of pauses and he like shifted his weight from one foot to the other

(07:38):
and still not making eye contact. And I could tell he had more to say, but it was like uncomfortable
for him somehow, which was strange, because he had been jovial and cheerful for, you know, the
initial conversation. So I just kind of pause and I let him continue if he wanted to continue. And he
goes, that said, some strange things have happened in and around the forest in this area. And so I

(08:06):
go, well, strange things. What do you mean? Like bigfoot type things or something else? And he goes,
well, we've lost some of our chickens and goats under mysterious circumstances. And then he went
on to explain how over the years, because they're right in the forest in this cottage property we'd

(08:28):
rented, and he and his wife lived on the same property in a little house about 50 yards away.
He said that sometimes black bears or mountain lions would come in from the woods and bust down
his five foot electric fence and just, you know, wreak havoc on the the goats and the chickens,
poor things. And when that happened, he said he'd actually caught a black bear. And then another

(08:50):
time he caught a mountain lion mid massacre, so to speak. And they pushed over these fences and
torn a chicken to shreds. And it was just blood and feathers everywhere, a real mess. And then
another time he caught a bear doing the same thing. Both of those animals, he said, when they get into
the paddocks and they go after a chicken or a goat, they always get it. And they always leave

(09:14):
a lot of mess. The fence is demolished. The animals torn up. It's, it's not pretty. And it's always
really obvious. And so I'm thinking, okay, what does that have to do with bigfoot or
mysterious things in the woods? I mean, that's sad, but it's not mysterious in my mind. I mean,
I've grown up around bears, so I'm not thinking mystery when I see a black bear. Sure. But he,

(09:37):
he kind of, he continued again, kind of stiltedly because he was still visibly uncomfortable. And
he explained that other times, two other times, as I recall, he'd had animals go missing with no
visible signs whatsoever. And this was the mystery. So he'd gotten up in the morning, went out to go

(10:02):
feed them. And there was just like one less goat or three fewer chickens than there had been the
day before. The five foot electric fence, not touched, not pushed over, no blood, no hair,
nothing. So I guess that's what he meant by mysterious because he, he kind of reiterated,
he said, when a bear does it or when a mountain lion does it, you can always tell. So whatever

(10:27):
that third thing was, I have no idea. And he paused one more time and he kind of looked me
right in the eye and he, he said rather pointedly, so if you and your wife and daughter go walking
in those woods across the road there, keep your wits about you. And I was, I was taken aback by

(10:48):
that and it sounds kind of cryptic. So I wanted to ask more, but the conversation was clearly over
at that point. He kind of turned around and just went back to feeding the animals. And
that was the first day I met the man renting his cottage. So I didn't want to, you know,
push my boundaries or be an obnoxious guest and get a bad rating on TripAdvisor or something

(11:09):
or, but they called it Airbnb. Airbnb. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I was curious, but I filed that away
because, you know, we were there to have fun and do the tourist thing, not to look for Bigfoot.
Of course, being naturally interested, Bigfoot was in the back of my mind being the first time

(11:30):
on the West Coast, but I wasn't going to, you know, do anything about that conversation. It was
just an odd conversation. That's all. And I thought that's all it was initially. Fast forward a week
and my wife and daughter and I are down at this beach. That's, you know, maybe half a mile at the
most down the, the one single road that cuts through the forest of this hamlet, just half a

(11:55):
mile away from this cottage that we were renting and staying at. It was called Muir Creek Beach.
And it wasn't your typical manicured sand beach at all. It was exactly the opposite to that.
It was very unkempt and wild. And it was, you know, cobblestones and boulders and
massive driftwood logs up on shore and lots of trees and bushes. You actually had to walk

(12:19):
through a kind of a forested trail to get down to the water. So very unmaintained, rather remote,
no public washrooms or anything. We're really enjoying this beach. My, my daughter and I are
climbing up a particularly large driftwood log, a cedar trunk with the roots all exposed. And

(12:42):
my wife's, you know, 50 yards away or so, wading in the shallow water. And all of a sudden I'm
startled by this loud sound, this thwack, just this echoing sound comes out of nowhere, completely
out of the blue. There's no one around. And it's the sound of a stone hitting the log that we are
climbing in with incredible velocity. Like it sounded like it was shot out of a gun or something,

(13:08):
this loud cracking sound of a stone hitting wood. And a second later, I see the stone, it,
I'm judging by the sound, it had hit the log opposite to where we were climbing on the other side
of this, you know, maybe an eight foot diameter log, something like that. But it must have taken
a hop off a root or something and it rolled down the log on the side that we were on. And I saw it

(13:33):
hit the, the beach, actually picked it up and eventually brought it home. It was a
a roughly one inch diameter, fairly round, smooth, white rock. I believe it was quartzite.
And so immediately I feel my pulse start to increase because I'm thinking there's someone

(13:54):
hiding around here, whipping rocks at my daughter and I. And I mean, I got mad. The fatherhood,
protective instinct kicked in. I'm looking this way up the beach and that way down the beach and
there's no one around, not a soul in sight. And there hadn't been the whole time we were there.
We were the only people at this beach. But the one spot I realized someone could be hiding was

(14:16):
there was this, this tall tree covered bluff directly at our backs, you know, maybe 40,
50 feet from the water's edge. And there was a lot of thick foliage on top of this bluff. So
someone could theoretically have been hiding in the bushes and shrubs and trees up there

(14:37):
and have whipped this stone down at my daughter and I and looking around, like I said, there
was no one around. So I assumed by process of elimination that that it wasn't exactly what
was happening. There was no other option that I could see. Because I mean, it was theoretically
possible that all these thoughts are flashing through my mind. It was possible that a stone

(14:59):
could have fallen straight down off of this bluff, you know, rolled down the embankment and landed
on top of the log we were in. But the stone hadn't hit like the top of the log, it had hit the side
of it at a shallow oblique angle. And it had done so with a lot more force than gravity would have
produced. So I was instantly fully convinced someone had thrown this at us. And I thought it was some,

(15:24):
you know, idiot teenager hiding in the brush, throwing rocks at tourists for fun. So
pulse is pounding, face is getting red, I feel my temperature rising. So I grab, not my best idea,
I admit, but I grabbed a fist sized rock. And I just whipped it as hard as I could up into the
foliage on top of this bluff from the direction I thought the stone had flown at us from.

(15:51):
And, and nothing happened. And so I grab another rock and I do the same thing. And I start whipping
more and more rocks. And my wife is coming up, she's going, what are you doing? Are you crazy?
You're gonna, what if there's someone walking up there? And I'm thinking, that's the point.
I just, I wanted to, I wanted to flush out who was ever up there and give them a good talking to.
And, you know, I'm glad there was apparently no one up there, because I could have actually

(16:16):
really hurt someone. But the long and the short of it is I threw probably eight or 10 stones in a
shotgun pattern. I'm sure I covered the area and the angle from which this pebble flew at us.
And there was nothing, no response, no rustling in the trees, no running feet, no screaming teenager,
nothing at all. Like there was no one there. So I calmed down, I sat down, I took some deep breaths

(16:43):
and had my daughter climb out of this, this tree. And about 15 minutes later, we decided to leave.
I told my wife what happened. She thought it was weird. But she said, you know, are you sure
there's not a person up there? I said, well, if they were, I would have hit them with a rock,
or at least would have heard some movement. And I didn't hear any movement. So it,

(17:06):
it was strange. And it was unsettling, because I knew without a shadow of a doubt that
that rock had been thrown at us. It didn't just roll down. It wasn't a bird that dropped it from
the sky. Because again, like, you know, I know a fair bit about nature growing up in the bush here.
And sometimes birds actually pick up rocks and drop them. But again, if that happens, it's going

(17:28):
to hit on top of the log, or it'll glance off the side of it. It won't directly hit the side of it
with the sort of velocity you'd expect out of a slingshot or something like that. But that's
what happened. Scully, I'm sitting here racking my brain, trying to be more thorough, trying to
figure out any type of natural cause of this alleged stone throw that Robert is describing.

(17:54):
So can you break down what animals or naturally occurring things could have caused something
like this? Based on the trajectory and force Robert described, we've got limited natural
candidates. No local animal is known to throw rocks with that kind of accuracy or speed.
Gravity alone can't produce a sideways launch. In short, no known wildlife or simple physics

(18:17):
fully explains a rock heading like that. If we're sticking to documented science,
you'd be looking at human intervention or some kind of external mechanical action.
I'm going to push back a little bit though, because I understand that there are some animals that
are not known to throw rocks, but out of the animals that are on Vancouver Island,

(18:40):
what species have the capability of throwing a rock like that?
Absolutely. Let's dive into that. In a remote coastal forest on Vancouver Island,
you're dealing mostly with species like black bears, cougars, and spoiler mammals.
None of them have the known ability to throw objects with that kind of speed or precision.
In other words, no documented local wildlife matches that profile.

(19:02):
If it wasn't human, then we're in territory beyond own animal behavior.
So let's just say we rule out animals. You mentioned gravity earlier. What other naturally
occurring things that are not animals like gravity or bluff collapse or things like that
that could possibly explain a rock hitting that piece of driftwood and making it appear like it

(19:27):
could be something that was thrown? Sure. Let's break that down. Geologically speaking,
gravity alone isn't going to fling a stone sideways with that kind of force.
A sudden bluff collapse or erosion could drop rocks, but they fall mostly downward.
For a rock to hit at that angle, you need a deliberate lateral force.
So unless there was a mechanical trigger, a rolling log, or human involvement,

(19:49):
natural geology doesn't really account for that sideways strike.
I thought Robert's logic seemed pretty sound as well. So what you're saying makes sense.
And to put it in simplest terms, either Robert is lying, which I'm not getting the
sense of that right now. It was a human that through this rock, like Robert has suspected,

(20:12):
or we are in uncharted territory, so to speak. Would you say that's a fair assessment?
Absolutely. That's a fair assessment. If we roll out known animals and straightforward geology,
we're left with either human involvement or something we don't yet have a scientific framework for.
In other words, if Robert's telling the truth and there's no human trickery,

(20:34):
we're in the realm of the unexplained. So yeah, that's a solid conclusion.
All right, let's see where it goes.
So we head back to our rental cottage that afternoon and as the day wears on,
I'm just grinding my teeth because the weirdness of the experience was eating at me.

(20:54):
I was putting things together. I was thinking back to the cottage owner's
comment to me about how if you go in these woods, keep your wits about you and
the woods around our cottage were the same forest as the woods around this beach. It was
the same area, you know, half a mile, maybe even just a quarter mile apart. I'd have to

(21:16):
check on Google Maps, but they were close. So I'm thinking I've heard interviews and things about
Sasquatches throwing rocks at people and the weirdness of the guys disappearing
chickens and goats and this rock thrown at us from the bush. I didn't even think a human

(21:38):
could climb up that bluff when I later reflected on it. That was my initial reaction, but it was
a steep wet bluff. It was all slick and covered in algae from the mist in the air from the ocean.
I didn't see how a person could even physically get up there. And if they did, it was so thick and
tangled that I don't see how a normal person could navigate that sort of terrain. So it just

(22:02):
didn't make sense. But it all kind of reached ahead and I decided, well, the thing I need to do to
get some answers on this is I need to go walk in the woods that the guy warned us about.
So probably not, again, not my smartest move. And it was even less intelligent to do so

(22:23):
after dark. But it was after dark when I came to the decision and didn't have the patience to wait
till daylight. So I take a walk with nothing but the flashlight on this phone right here.
I didn't have any weapons. There was a big mag light in the cottage, but it was out of battery.
And I didn't want to go ask the guy for another battery because I felt like I was already on

(22:45):
shaky ground with him after, you know, the conversation earlier in the week.
So I turn on my phone flashlight and I walk across the road and I enter this thick west
coast forest, old man's beard like an hanging on all the trees and very tangled. And I started to
walk into there and it was slow going because, you know, there were shrubs and bushes everywhere.

(23:09):
It's not the kind of forest where you can just walk clearly through it. You know, it was like very
much picked your way along and dodged to the left and right as needed. I hadn't made it very far in
maybe 50 yards or so when I heard this sound as a guess, I'd say maybe 50 yards ahead of me
deeper into the bush. It was not terribly loud, but I heard it clearly because it was a calm

(23:36):
evening and there wasn't any wind. Didn't even notice any, you know, burr or bug noises or
anything like that. So I clearly heard this sound up ahead of me somewhere in the thick bush. It was
kind of like a big bodybuilder or a heavy chested man like trying to get phlegm out of his throat

(23:58):
or, you know, clear his throat if he's got a cold or something with a bit of a growly tinge to it.
I always try to imitate it and I never get it quite right, but it was kind of like, kind of like that.
Okay. So my senses are prickling and I feel like the hair on the back of my neck stand

(24:20):
up. My immediate thought is bear. You know, I'm thinking, Robert, you're an idiot. There's a bear
up there and the guy warned you about weird stuff in the woods and it's not a big foot. It's probably
a bear. You just need to get out of here. It's amazing how your perspective can go from curious
to fearful in the blink of an eye. Just one little noise. But because of the thick foliage and,

(24:44):
you know, it was hard to get my bearings, I hadn't made it very far in the process of turning around
to leave when several seconds after that initial sound, I heard another sound. Sounded like it
was coming from the same spot up ahead in the bush. I held my phone flashlight up, but it was,
you know, too far ahead for the little beam on that to show anything. And the second sound was

(25:08):
like a tree being torqued or twisted, like the creaking of wood fibers. That's
what it sounded like to me. Not a bunch of trees doing that, like you sometimes hear in a heavy
wind. You'll hear like lots of trees creaking and moving. It was like a single tree sounded like
a trunk being wrenched somehow. I remember thinking I've heard a sound like that a lot because we

(25:34):
cut and split firewood here for heavy Canadian winters. And it was very much like the sound of
when a log gets stuck on the splitter. And you got to kind of pry it off. And sometimes you can
hear that same sort of creak when you pry the log off the wood splitter wedge. That's what it

(25:55):
reminded me of. So those two sounds were enough to really get my heart pumping. And I actually got
some of it on video as I as I left. I actually got the a growl on video. It's faint. But in one of
the videos I put on the channel of my experience, you can hear that growl. And I tried to amplify it

(26:18):
a little bit. I didn't get the the tree twist on camera. I had already quit recording at that
point. But those two sounds together were enough to get me out of there. And I ran back across the
road cutting my legs on the foliage and brambles and dash back into the cottage. And it was only
about 10 minutes I was gone. And so my wife's like, you know, what happened? Why are you back so soon?

(26:42):
And I told her and she it was kind of halfway between skeptical and laughing at me. I think
somewhere in the middle there. So sounds like my eventually she saw that I was exactly. So eventually
she she saw I was I was in earnest and I was genuinely scared. And she suggested I call my

(27:02):
father back in Ontario because he also is a woods guy. And she figured he, you know, be able to
understand and calm me down perhaps better than she would at that point. So I did I called my dad
and told him what happened and he was curious and interested but didn't really have any, you know,

(27:24):
suggestions. So I went to bed didn't really go to sleep for a long time, but I went to bed and
just tried to settle myself down. And the next day did my best to forget about it. But by the time
mid afternoon came my curiosity had sort of rekindled, you know, the light of day fear had
died down. So I decided I'm going to take one more walk in those woods maybe most likely it was a bear

(27:51):
that that's what I was thinking. And you know, maybe I can confirm that and set my mind at ease.
Because I was kind of thinking big foot in the back of my mind putting all this together the
stone throwing and the the gentleman's cryptic warning. So I did I rather foolishly in hindsight
I went back to the woods across the road again and it didn't look as scary in the light of day

(28:15):
found my way back to where I had been the night before and couldn't see anything. So I kept walking
and it wasn't long before I saw this fallen tree, you know, maybe six inches diameter. So it was a
balsam tree fresh green needles still on it, but it was falling down and it looked like it was laying

(28:37):
just about where I'd heard those two sounds the night before. So I'm thinking is that the tree I
heard being twisted did whatever twisted it did it push it over after I left because it looked
like it was still alive, you know, no, no brown needles on it. It was fresh and green just lying
down. And I thought, well, I'm going to go take a closer look because maybe if I get a look at the

(29:00):
bottom, which I couldn't see from where I was at this point, I'll see if it was, you know, rotten,
eaten by bugs pushed over by the wind or, you know, something more mysterious. But before I
had the chance to walk any further towards this tree, I catch this flash of movement

(29:21):
further into the bush, maybe, I don't know, 70, 80 yards from where I was at that point.
And it was a little to the right of the fallen tree and
it was kind of partially obscured by foliage and branches, very thick woods, but it was a big

(29:42):
black something. And I had seen it move. The movement was what I noticed out of my peripheral
vision and that's what drew my gaze to it. I looked at this thing and it didn't, it didn't look like
any recognizable creature. It looked like just a big eight or nine foot tall black mass in the bush.

(30:06):
And I thought, did I really see that move? Because it more than anything, it kind of looked like a
root ball, like when a big tree falls over and pulls up some soil, just like a dark, shapeless mass.
But I knew when I thought I calmed myself down, I knew I had seen it move. That's what drew my
attention to it. I'm thinking, is that a bear? Is that a bigfoot? It looked too big to be a bear.

(30:32):
I knew from research and from talking to our cottage owner, there are only black bears on most
of Vancouver Island, including the area we were. I've seen black bears here on our property.
This thing was too big to be a black bear. But at the same time, it didn't immediately shout
bigfoot to me either, because it didn't have a noticeable head or arms or anything. It was

(30:54):
just this great big black thing that I had seen move about a foot. Till I look at it, I whip out
my phone and I get 20 seconds of footage of it. And it doesn't move. And I don't move. But the longer
I stare at it, the more dread I feel. And it doesn't really make sense, because I'm not sure what I'm

(31:17):
looking at at this point. I just know that it's a big thing that moved. And this sense of dread
increased and increased. And I felt my skin tingling. And I realized I need to leave. This
thing is capable of killing me. That's the thought that was echoing through my head. I could die

(31:38):
if I stay here and then edit on Lily. They won't have a husband and a father, and they won't know
why. So I turned around and I got out of there as quickly as I could, which wasn't all that fast
because of the the thickness of the foliage. I didn't look back. I wish I had looked back.
I wish I had been a little bolder now. But that's what I saw. Okay, Scully. So

(32:04):
based on the video that I had just sent you that we have all seen, what natural occurring things
could account for that black mass that we see in Robert's video? Based on the visible details,
things like scale, shape and texture, there are a few well documented natural possibilities in a
dense forest environment, large tree stumps, clusters of branches or moss covered rocks can

(32:27):
easily form a silhouette that might look humanoid at a glance. Even certain wildlife like a bear
standing momentarily can create that oppression, although that's less common. Essentially, we
start by considering these known mundane explanations first before jumping to anything
more extraordinary. Okay, what are some things that we can all look for in the video to
try to prove that it's something that is maybe a more like biological living thing?

(32:53):
When we look at factors like lighting, depth of field and how the vegetation overlaps,
we can start to beast together whether we're dealing with a stationary object or something that
shows signs of movement. If the dark mass remains consistent in shape and position despite slight
changes in camera angle or lighting, that usually suggests it's a stationary object like a root ball
or a cluster of branches. On the other hand, if there are subtle changes in how it aligns

(33:14):
like a surrounding foliage or if the shake seems to shift independently, that might hint at biological
bulletinette. So the key here is looking for any signs of variation that would indicate it's not
just part of the static landscape. Makes sense. So you're saying movement equals biological
creature more or less or an animal. Did you detect any movement in the video itself?

(33:37):
I didn't notice any movement in the video. Okay, so I guess up until this point,
scale from zero to 100, what would you give this as a possibility that Robert actually
encountered a Bigfoot? Well, considering everything we have so far, the still images,

(33:59):
the environmental factors and the potential for pareidolia, I'd say it's on the low end of the
scale. On a scale from zero to 100, I'd give it maybe a 10. In other words, far more likely we're
dealing with natural objects, lighting tricks or misinterpretation than an actual Bigfoot.
But as always, I'd say let's keep looking at the evidence and see if anything more concrete comes up.
The clincher came the next day. I called my dad again that night and I told him, you know,

(34:24):
the updated version. I saw this thing in the woods. I saw this fallen tree.
And he actually surprised me. He said, well, you should go back one more time.
You know, see if you can get any footprints or fur or something if it was a Bigfoot,
which I was kind of 50-50 on at that point. So I decided I would because the next day was our last

(34:46):
day on Vancouver Island. We were heading home the day after that. So I thought it's now or
never. I mean, I don't want to be the guy who came this close and maybe saw a Bigfoot and then
didn't follow up on it. Sure. Even though I was scared, I did go back one more time the following
afternoon, another sunny day. And the first thing I noticed, I'm, you know, had heads on a swivel

(35:09):
and I'm feeling my heart rate go up because I'm expecting this thing to just appear at any minute.
But as soon as I got back to the spot where I had seen it, I noticed immediately it was gone.
It wasn't there. And that shattered my conviction that I'd sort of built up over the previous day,

(35:30):
that it was just a root ball and that I, my mind was just playing tricks on me.
I'd sort of talked myself into that. But there were no logging roads, no roads at all, no trails
through this bush other than a couple of game trails. But this thing was gone.
So if it had been a root ball, you know, maybe if there had been a logging road,

(35:53):
a logging crew could have conceivably come during the previous day and cut down the tree and
pulled away the root ball with a skid steer or something. But it wasn't that because there was no,
no access for any logging crew. So I'm looking around making sure this thing isn't there and
it isn't. I check every direction. So I decide after several minutes, I'm going to go check out the

(36:18):
fallen tree that I had never gotten to see close up. And long and the short of it is that fallen
balsam appeared to have been ripped out of the ground, roots and all. I saw the roots. I poked
the cross section of the trunk at the base. And this tree wasn't rotten. It wasn't bug eating.

(36:41):
I don't believe it was pushed over by the wind because when I had heard that creaking sound
again, there was there was no wind that night, not even a breeze. And there were enough trees
thickly spaced around it that if a down burst of wind strong enough to rip that tree out had occurred,
it would have taken other trees with it. But it was the only one down. And it appeared to be sound

(37:04):
living wood. So I was starting to form conclusions in my mind. And then I noticed as I got close,
there was a second tree fallen under that balsam. This one was a birch tree. It was bigger. It was
almost a foot in diameter, splintered like match wood. Again, no, no rot, no bug damage, no carpenter

(37:27):
ants or sawdust from beetles or anything like that that could have conceivably weakened the tree.
Just a big, formerly healthy birch tree with leaves still on it, snapped like a pencil between your
fists. So I took some footage of those two trees. I wish I had stuck around a little longer and

(37:50):
gone to where I'd seen the black shape and see, you know, looked for footprints or something like
that. But I was still unsettled by everything I saw. So I didn't do that. And at that point, I wasn't
thinking about documenting evidence for YouTube either. This was like pre Bigfoot shift in my

(38:11):
YouTube focus. I just wanted to get some some evidence to show my family, you know, made mainly
my dad back home since I'd talked to him on the phone about it. And I knew he'd believe me without
me having to document every little thing. And I still half expected this thing to jump out of the
woods. So I left and we packed up and the next day we came home and as I thought about it over the

(38:35):
next few days, I realized based on the size and the vanishing act that this black shape pulled
and these mysteriously broken trees that appeared healthy in every way other than being snapped
like match wood or pulled out of the ground. And then this stone being thrown and our cottage

(38:58):
owners cryptic warning, putting all that together. I kind of came to the reluctant conclusion that
I saw Bigfoot. It just didn't look how I expected it to look. And the more I thought about that,
the more I realized, logically speaking, I can't think of anything else it could have been.

(39:21):
So ever since then, I've been on a mission to learn more. And I still am.
Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's that's intense. Can I ask a couple of questions? Justin, do you mind?
Please. And Robert, you're on Vancouver Island. Well, no, I don't I don't live on Vancouver Island.

(39:48):
We're actually this is where this happened. Or it took place. Yes, it took place on Vancouver
Island. Yes. You live in Ontario. Is that right? Correct. Yes. Okay. Yes. So
so Vancouver Island, I've been there. I've spent some time in Victoria.
And as you were telling your story, I'm getting goosebumps because

(40:08):
one of the other South Squatch experiences I'm speaking to, who I'm trying to convince to record
with us, had a similar experience on Vancouver Island, near a place called Nanaimo. I don't
know if you know where that is. I do. Yeah, we were a little way, I think a couple hours or so

(40:29):
from Nanaimo, but there's there's a famous and very good Canadian chocolate bar named after Nanaimo.
I always think of that when I hear Nanaimo, but beautiful area. Beautiful area. Very similar
story. There was a part of the forest everyone just knew not to go. And around the edge of the
forest, almost like a territorial boundary, were a couple of days a week, they would find

(40:54):
these trees completely rooted out like rooted. That's probably the wrong word. You know what I
mean? Like pulled out of the ground roots, you know, uprooted. Thank you. And they had just
observed this community has been observing this boundary of uprooted trees about once every two
weeks. New trees show up, set this boundary and anytime someone seems to cross the boundary,

(41:18):
they get warmed off. Usually with this low deep growling, sometimes with stones being thrown,
it seems to be a very common thing. And that's about as much information I have from this
experience as so far because they're very apprehensive to talk about it because they're
in a small community and they also don't necessarily want, you know, the story more
broadly shared, I guess, to protect the community as well. But it really has a lot

(41:45):
of similarities to what you experienced. Oh, that's quite fascinating. I knew there were
other experiences on Vancouver Island, but sounds like that one is almost a point for point match
to my own. It's very similar. You know, the real key difference is that these, you know,
this community and this person I'm speaking to lives there. And so they've had this experience

(42:06):
multiple times in their life upbringing and they vote, but they've only seen it once described
very similar to you very big black bulky eight, nine foot tall creature that can, you know,
move through impossible to traverse shrub and forest incredibly quickly, incredibly quickly.

(42:28):
It obviously had a big impact on you because you went and pivoted your YouTube channel to be
focused exclusively on on Sasquatch. What's your family's perspective on that story specifically?
And how have they been able to accept like this shift in you in terms of your perspective on

(42:48):
Bigfoot? Well, overall, my family has been very supportive and I'm super grateful for them. I mean,
first of all, I should reiterate that my daughter who was was only seven and she's still seven now
she's turning eight in August. She of course experienced part of the encounter of the multifaceted

(43:11):
steps that led to the encounter with me in that the rock throw, it was something we both witnessed.
And it was actually the fact that the rock came very close to her head, albeit on the opposite
side of the log to where she was that initially got my attention. So for her being so young and

(43:32):
impressionable for for good or ill, she just accepted the conclusion that daddy came to,
which is that, you know, putting all of the puzzle pieces together, this was probably a Sasquatch.
And really, it couldn't logically have been any other known thing. So to her being so young,

(43:53):
yeah, daddy saw a Sasquatch in Vancouver Island and it threw a rock at us. No problem. My wife,
she never doubted me, I would never say that. But I think it took her a little while to fully
accept that yeah, that's what happened. And I think the the moment for her that it really clicked
is when one day, maybe a week after we'd come back home to Ontario, we were looking at my

(44:19):
footage of the big black shape together, scrubbing through it, zooming in digitally trying to enhance
it, all that stuff that bigfoot people do. And my wife noticed a detail that I hadn't seen before
when we zoomed in on the footage. Because up until this point, I believed the only movement that

(44:41):
this creature had made would was the roughly one to two foot shift that it initially got me to
turn my head and look at it. After that, from the distance I was, it appeared to stay stock still
the whole time until I left. And that's what I believed the video showed. But zooming in on it,

(45:03):
my wife pointed to the bottom left hand corner and she says, what's that? There's something moving
there. And I looked and she was right. There was a kind of slow rhythmic movement of
some part of this black shape towards the bottom left hand side of it. And both of us thought the

(45:25):
more we looked that yeah, that looks like a hand hang down and kind of doing a scooping motion
against what could have been the thigh, like it was scratching itself. So for her, I think that was
the moment she fully accepted that yeah, you know, my husband saw a big foot and

(45:48):
my decision to shift the YouTube channel towards learning everything I can about these beings,
following that shared realization her and I had that it took her a while to be fully on board with
that. But I think she now sees as I do that so many people are finding being part of our journey

(46:14):
of knowledge gaining to be helpful and uplifting people who have had encounters and people who
have not but simply want to learn more that she sees it's a good thing. So I feel very supported
by both wife and daughter. Of course, my dad was interested in seeing the video and we got

(46:35):
back home too because I had kind of vented to him on the phone. Well, the different things were
happening. So overall, I'm happy to say that I do not come from one of those families where
they all think you're nuts and you just never bring it up again after you attempt to do so for
the first time. I know there are many cases like that and I feel for those people. I'm fortunate

(46:59):
enough to have the opposite scenario where my family knows that I'm not a liar knows that
most of the time I've got a decent head on my shoulders and I'm not going to
invent fanciful details of an encounter that was really nothing. So I think that's one of the
reasons I'm kind of overstepping the question here but that's one of the reasons that probably the

(47:24):
biggest single reason why I do what I do on YouTube now apart from satisfying my own curiosity about
these beings. I want to provide solid logical footholds for people who aren't as deeply as

(47:45):
obsessed as I am to first of all if they've had an encounter to not believe they're crazy.
Second of all, perhaps to have something to show skeptical friends and family
that might get them to shake their head and think, maybe Bill isn't such an idiot. Maybe
there's something to this. This guy makes a pretty good case. Maybe I haven't opened my mind enough

(48:11):
and if my videos can get people to open their minds just a little bit and not call their
bigfoot encountering relative a nutcase, that's a win for me. Yeah, I think they definitely do
that for sure. And I think as someone that is on the outside of the Saswatch knowledge base,

(48:33):
I guess you can say, I don't really know too much about the lore and the evidence.
Why do you think it is that people on the outside have such a visceral reaction when they hear
someone say, I think I encountered a bigfoot? To me, it's just a large primate. I know that

(48:56):
there's some people that say there might be some paranormal weird woo-woo kind of stuff with it,
but if you look at the evidence, they're gigantopithecus and other primates that are of that
size. We have evidence that there have been primates of that size at one point on our earth,
so it doesn't seem like it's that so much of a stretch to say, is it possible that in these

(49:23):
deeply wooded areas that there could be a small population of them that still exist? To me,
that's pretty logical when you think of it like that, but yet there's still this visceral reaction
when people mention bigfoot, it's like, oh, come on, you're crazy. But if we were sitting here
talking about a Tasmanian tiger that was encountered, people would probably say, that's

(49:46):
kind of like, who cares? It's just an extinct or what we thought was an extinct creature.
Why do people have such a visceral reaction to it?
Well, I can give you my hypothesis. Of course, I can't speak for every person who's ever had
a visceral reaction towards a bigfoot encounter, but I think I do have some unique insights to

(50:07):
answer that because of the comments sections of my YouTube videos, I'm quite frankly.
There's no better place to get a very realistic and sometimes jarring view of human nature
than a good YouTube comments section. So I think that the short answer is that people are fearful.

(50:31):
And understandably so, like you, I think that there's plenty of evidence that
these beings as symbol undiscovered primates could easily exist in the vast wilderness of North
America and other places like the Yahweh in Australia, for instance. In North America alone,

(50:53):
we've got like 2 billion acres of forest and wilderness. A small percentage, less than 10%
of that is frequented by humans. And much of it would probably never have humans set foot in it
at all. I think people, particularly somewhat outdoorsy people, are fans of thinking that

(51:14):
because they spend a fair bit of time outdoors, they therefore have a good bead on everything
that's in all of the outdoors. That's a big stretch, a massively out of proportion stretch to the reality
of how big land is. So why do they have the visceral reaction and why do they try to wrap it

(51:38):
in logical objections? I believe that's just a veneer, because people don't like to admit
that they're having an emotional reaction to something. So they try to disguise it with
the logical arguments, right? But they're only surface deep. Anyone who's actually
spent more than five minutes researching knows that we do have quite compelling physical evidence.

(52:00):
We do have footprints that unless you were an absolute genius of morphology and locomotion,
you're never going to be able to fake. And are you really going to sit there and press out a
thousand of these in a row that are all different from each other? Because we've got examples of
that. I mean, the list goes on. It's laughable, really, the logical side of the objection. So

(52:20):
like I said, I believe that's just a disguise, a veneer to conceal the real core of the visceral
reaction, the engine behind it, which is fear, the idea that there are massive human-like
intelligent beings out there, undiscovered primates that perhaps rival our own intelligence

(52:46):
and resourcefulness, who we can't see but could be out there. And now my family member is saying
they are definitely out there. That's scary for some people, especially people who live in or near
the woods or like to go to the woods. And it also, for a lot of people, I think causes them to have

(53:07):
to rethink their entire worldview. I don't think it's a stretch to say that as far as humanity
and where we fit into this earth and our ecosystem. And people don't like to rethink their entire world
view. It's an upsetting process, but often it's the intellectually honest thing to do.

(53:30):
It's just difficult. And it's fearful. It's fear inspiring. So people have this visceral reaction,
because it's easier to put your relative who had an encounter in the box of he's an attention seeker,
not true, than it is to examine the claim and say, what's the actual evidence for this? And

(53:55):
are we really at a point in our discovery of the natural world where we can conclusively say
something does not exist in those two billion acres in North America and the millions of acres
of wilderness worldwide? Are these reports come in? The truth is, we're not at that point.

(54:15):
Even though we are a fans of patting ourselves on the back technologically, I've seen many
claims in my comments sections about how, well, satellites have a real time view of every square
inch of the forest floor in all the world. Well, how come we're discovering new mammals

(54:36):
regularly, then? And in, believe it, well, yeah, 1992, I think it was the old copy. It was,
I could be getting the date slightly wrong, but this massive horse-like thing discovered in
was it Tanzania area? I probably got that wrong, but it was this big creature that only existed

(55:01):
in folklore up until when I was two years old for crying out loud. We don't have as strong a grasp on
everything that's out there as we think we do. No, we definitely don't. I think it's sheer arrogance
to suggest otherwise, because every era of humanity has always thought we know it all,

(55:23):
and they've always been proven wrong. Why are we any different? Yeah, I think they're even
discovering pyramids and stuff that are hidden in Amazon that are covered by the trees and things
like that, that they just, they can't see that. You need almost like a lidar to get past the canopy
to be able to see that, and that's a gigantic pyramid or a civilization, like building structures

(55:48):
or things like that. Try to find a, I mean, even though it's large, a nine-foot creature,
like that's so small in comparison to the billions of acres that are out there.
Right. Well, like you said, the pyramid, that's a perfect example, because we haven't even discovered
everything that we've done yet as a species, everything that we are and have been. So how can

(56:13):
we say that we've discovered everything about the natural world, which is infinitely bigger and more
complex than our single species when you think about it? And also too, like our species has also
killed off pretty much all the megafauna that existed on earth, and I think potentially maybe
deep-seated in our subconscious, there's this fact of like, to answer my question from before,

(56:39):
Tasmanian tiger or a fish or things like that that are small, and I said we probably could hunt
through extinction at this point. Like, oh, one got away. Oh, that's interesting that we found one,
but like it's not a threat, but a nine-foot primate is a threat, and I think there's something maybe
that's in our genes that are like, that can't happen, you know? Yeah, I mean, it's why people

(57:02):
have the reaction they do to snakes and spiders. There's some evolutionary protections in place.
One thing that in terms of, you know, why we haven't seen them yet that was really fascinating in
our chat with Dr. Meldrum, and I've heard him talk about this in other interviews as well, is,
you know, even just thinking back to Jane Goodall and her experience looking for

(57:27):
grillers and communities of apes and how long it took her to, you know, just sitting in this
strategically positioned spot in the jungle and then just waiting and not seeing anything for a long
time when your sole intent is to find something. There is, you know, the Planet Earth documentary

(57:47):
series from BBC, David Attenborough, they went out to catch the first of a footage of a snow leopard
in the Himalayas, I believe, and it took their three or four film crews positioned in three or
four locations around the mountains about two years to catch 30 seconds or so of footage,

(58:08):
and these are people who are trained, you know, for that intention, have the best equipment in the
world, and it still takes them so long to catch just the tiniest glimpse, and there is no one
putting in that same level of effort for the Squatch, so it's not surprising that we haven't
seen it. If it's a solitary creature, like, it's going to be impossible to find.

(58:31):
Yes, well, very much so. I remember the segment you mentioned. I love the David Attenborough
Nature documentaries. I mean, who doesn't really? When David Attenborough speaks,
you just want to listen. It's another type of visceral reaction, I think. But anyway, yeah,

(58:51):
the idea that something that doesn't want to be found in the wilderness and is
infinitely better adapted to that wilderness than we are will just casually show itself to us is
ludicrous. And before we go into the adaptation, just a really quick callback to David Attenborough,
who's on the record as saying he's very open to the idea that Squatch exists. He has said on camera,

(59:19):
he has spoken about the Yeti on camera, and the footprints found in the mountains and the snow,
and I think there's a lot of people who just don't understand that there are genuine academics in
this space who do concede that it is incredibly likely that this could be real.
Yes, well, David Attenborough, we touched on Jane Goodall too. She's another one who is on record

(59:42):
as saying she believes it exists. There you go. You don't have to go too deep into this topic
before the evidence starts kind of slapping you in the face and saying, hey, there is something here.
Yeah, someone that, again, that is kind of inexperienced with this, speaking to Dr. Meldrum,
I think the biggest thing I took away was the footprints. And the fact is that the metatarsal

(01:00:08):
break, am I saying that? Mid-tarsal break. And actually, I was watching a Les Stroud video where
he was trying to mimic and almost tried to make these prints in the mud with these gigantic
footprints, and he was trying to figure out a way to get that metatarsal break to occur.

(01:00:32):
Could you explain to the audience what that is exactly just for those that maybe didn't
hear the other episode? Because I'm probably not qualified enough to describe what the
mid-tarsal break is. Sure. Well, I'm not nearly as qualified on that
aspect as Dr. Meldrum, but I'll do my best because it really is a fascinating aspect
of the evidence. I mean, your casual bigfoot observer, observer of the phenomenon, will

(01:00:57):
tend to think, well, footprints. I mean, those can be fake, right? Strapping on fake feet. We
have photos of guys on the internet holding up their hand carved fake feet. What gives?
How are these so convincing? Well, the reason, one of the reasons is this mid-tarsal break you
mentioned. So the human foot is based on the arch structure. That's how we distribute our weight

(01:01:20):
on our feet, and the arch is one of the strongest shapes in nature. So it's a good design, but
it's not a perfect design, particularly if we were to spend more of our time as a species,
walking barefoot over uneven terrain, potentially climbing trees or, you know,
going over rocks and hills in the wilderness while hunting. We would need something that could

(01:01:46):
shift and adapt to that terrain better in our foot morphology, and that is the mid-tarsal break.
Known great apes like chimpanzees and gorillas have this hinge, for lack of a better term,
in the middle of their foot that causes the foot to change shape based on the terrain underneath it

(01:02:10):
and based on the pressure that's being exerted by the creature with each particular step.
So instead of an arch, we have this shifting, hinging foot that can kind of act like one of
those off-road vehicles where you've seen how the axles of the two sides, the two wheel pairs,

(01:02:34):
can move independently as they go over bumps. It's kind of like that for a foot, and it's this,
when it comes to footprints, it shows up as this very distinct ridge in the dirt of the footprint.
So it's, in other words, if it's a ridge in the dirt, it's a concave impression in the bottom

(01:02:56):
of the foot, which basically is a sign that the foot was grabbing into the ground when the
creature took that step and changing its shape and its weight distribution to give the creature
better balance. It's not something that humans have again. We get by with the arch and Nike trainers,

(01:03:19):
but if we were running around the wilderness and did so for a couple of million years,
we would probably develop mid-tarsal brakes because it just makes more sense physically
when you're dealing with rough terrain. So that's one aspect of many that make
many of the footprints that have been recovered and cast very convincing, and anyone who understands

(01:03:44):
even the basics of foot morphology, locomotion, known primate, great ape, foot morphology versus
human foot morphology and locomotion, those points become very difficult to argue with,
at least if you're going to stick with logic. Yeah, because since the Dr. Meldrum interview
that we had, I can't stop thinking about that. I'm thinking, again, part of the mission in this

(01:04:10):
show is to try to contribute to science, to try to figure out, get closer to what actually is true,
and I'm like, what kind of device could I create to mimic that? Because obviously,
a wood plank, not going to do that. So you'd have to have some sort of device that has springs
and things like that to be able to mimic that gripping motion to create that ridge.

(01:04:35):
And I mean, is it possible? Maybe, but in the middle of the woods and middle of nowhere,
who's out there doing that? It doesn't make any sense at all.
You remember, there was a moment even where Dr. Meldrum posited the same thing in the interview
and said, but then he went to a location, and then the following day at the location,

(01:04:56):
all the footprints showed up. Who laid the footprints down while they were asleep?
Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? In this six hour window, like hundreds of prints down.
We're anticipating the presence of the one guy. Of the one guy who's in authority on this,
before he arrives, it gets so farfetched. Are they also like eight feet apart too,

(01:05:18):
or something crazy? The stride is so far. The stride is long.
Well, typically, eight feet would be an exceptionally long stride, even for the
purported Sasquatch footprints that have been recovered. But four to five feet,
even six feet, that's a common figure that you hear about. And to put it in perspective,
the footprints recovered from Bluff Creek, the site of the Patterson Gimlin film in 67,

(01:05:44):
those were about 41 inches apart on average, which is about 10 to 11 inches longer than
a approximately six foot five human male would produce on average in terms of stride lengths.
So even just shy of four feet, that's way beyond the average human stride.

(01:06:09):
Yeah. And wouldn't you have, again, in my fake contraption idea,
I mean, think about it. You'd have to get the contraption to do the ridge thing,
and then walk and try to place another one that looks about the right size.
There would be a thousand other human footprints around that path that that Sasquatch would walk.
I just, I mean, don't get me wrong. Are there probably some fake ones out there that probably

(01:06:33):
are like hurting the cause of trying to find out the truth? Probably, right? But there's some of
these without a doubt. Yeah. There's some, you know, some of these that Dr. Meldrum has cast.
I'm just, it's kind of kind of blew my mind a little bit. And when you really think about it,
so it's really fascinating. Well, it really does. And, you know, the more the more I delve into

(01:06:55):
footprint morphology, and I'm simultaneously reading both of Dr. Meldrum's books right now.
So I'm kind of giving myself a crash course in that and the other evidence he's touched on as
well. And footprint morphology, in the context of Bigfoot, it's one of those things, it's like a
fractal pattern. The more you zoom into that knowledge, the more shocking and compelling it

(01:07:18):
gets, at least for me. And so the mid-tarsal break, that's one detail. But it's kind of like,
it's kind of like the complexity of the cell, right? Like, you know, 100 years ago or so,
microscopes were only so powerful. And so we could only see the cell as a single, you know,
mono organism that, you know, had no other parts to it or components. But now we have electron

(01:07:44):
microscopes, so we can see infinitely further than we could with those primitive versions of
the microscope. And we know that cells are home to millions of micro-machines that make each
individual cell run. And it's kind of like that with footprint morphology, in that,
like, the more details you look into and the harder you press and examine those details,

(01:08:07):
the more undeniable it gets. You know, dermal ridges and the fact that police forensic experts
say that those dermal ridges could not possibly have been carved by even the most skilled forger.
And if, even if they were somehow on one footprint, how come we have, you know, multiple examples of
what looks like the same creature making footprints years apart? And we can tell it's the same creature

(01:08:32):
because it has this unique injury. And we can see this scar from the injury, which has shifted
with skin growth from the earlier footprints to the late footprints. You know, that's just one
example. That's happened. Or, you know, the fact that based on terrain, we have slippery sections

(01:08:52):
in a run of footprints where the toes are gripping in and grabbing the mud to hold on and anchor the
creature and then flatter ground a couple hundred yards ahead where the toes are just relaxed and
unflexed. How do you do that? Yeah, there goes my idea.
I tell you, the movement of the scar with skin growth, that it's so compelling. It's so difficult

(01:09:18):
to find an alternative solution to that. Like, you get to the point, the more you look into this,
as you said, where the simplest solution ends up being Sasquatch. And it's fascinating. I think
I would like to touch on a couple more things. And, you know, you mentioned,
you sort of lightly touched on both of them before, Robert. One was the Patterson Gimelan film,

(01:09:40):
which we'll get to in a moment. We also spoke to Dr. Meldrum about that. And,
you know, Robert, you and I connected through Todd Gatewood, who is currently restoring the
some of the first or second copy frames of the Patterson Gimelan film. And I think we're all
kind of eager to see what that looks like when it's done, the previews that you shared on your

(01:10:04):
channel was mind blowing. And I'm very excited to see where that work goes. But with respect to
the Patterson Gimelan film, a lot of skeptics, a lot of people not familiar with this topic,
look at that film, and immediately saw it's a guy in a suit. It's a guy in a suit. It doesn't
look real. It's clearly, you know, a guy in a suit. And then you look closer and some people have

(01:10:26):
said, yeah, you know, they've just stuffed some footballs or some clothing down the suit to make
it kind of look muscular. But then we speak to Dr. Meldrum. And now we're talking to you and you
look at some of the work that Todd Gatewood is doing and restoring the footage. And you start
to suddenly see levels of detail that are just not present in suits today. And unless you're
talking about, you know, a very reasonably high budget Hollywood film or something. And, you know,

(01:10:51):
let alone something that was, you know, more than 50 years old. And what, let me think about how to
frame this as a question, because I've kind of gone off the track a little bit. But, you know,
that film is, it's so difficult for people to swallow that film. What would you recommend
someone who has not seen the Patterson Gimelan film or has dismissed it previously,

(01:11:13):
what do you think they should look for or pay attention to in that film on a rewatch?
Well, yeah, that's a, that's a great question. Josh, I'm glad you asked because the Patterson
Gimelan film is close to my heart has been ever since I first saw it as a kid. And now, you know,
having this unquenchable enthusiasm to learn all I can about Bigfoot, you can't do that without

(01:11:38):
tackling the Patty film. So first of all, I would say, watch any one of the high quality,
stabilized and enhanced versions of the film on YouTube. There are several out there. MK Davis
is a man who's done some some great work on that respect. He actually worked with Todd

(01:12:02):
Gatewood for a time before Todd started his own restoration frame by frame of the film. Now,
people automatically start shaking their heads. Skeptics do when I mention enhanced versions
of the film because the word enhanced nowadays in the age of AI and Photoshop, it has this
negative connotation like, what do you mean by enhanced? Are you adding details in post-production

(01:12:25):
like CGI? And now that's not what I mean. In this case, enhancement means that
through very careful, very deliberate development of the copies of the film we have,
we're pulling out far more detail than was originally possible with the first iterations

(01:12:50):
of the film. It's kind of like restoring an old faded photo of your grandmother. You can tell it's
your grandma, you know, when she was a girl or whatever, but when it's properly enhanced,
you can see her better. And if you do it right, you're seeing what was actually there in that

(01:13:13):
photo of your grandma. You're not seeing invented details. I mean, unless the photo was, you know,
half destroyed in the washing machine or something, then maybe a good Photoshop artist would draw in
details. But that's not the kind of enhancement that's happening with the Patti film. It's not
the kind you'll find on YouTube if you look up these stabilized versions. Because the original,

(01:13:33):
if you watch the original, you can find that on YouTube too. And it's shaky and it's grainy,
and it looks like it was shot in 1967. But the kind of 16 millimeter Kodachrome camera and film
that Roger Patterson used, it was a rented camera. And it was capable of recording extraordinary

(01:13:56):
detail, much more so than your average camcorder from, you say, 10 years ago or something. iPhones
now, maybe we're getting close to rivaling it with 4k footage or smartphones and things. But
even with that, I think it would be hard pressed to compete as far as sheer resolution,

(01:14:16):
information in the original imagery. Now, the copies of the film on YouTube that have been
stabilized and enhanced as impressive as they are, they're not perfect. They are still blurry and
things if you zoom in. But as Todd, Todd Gatewood has explained, those are mostly fourth and fifth

(01:14:38):
generation copies. As far as I know, the research I've done so far, I don't believe anyone has a
true first generation copy. But Todd Gatewood has, I believe, a second generation copy, large
format photographs taken of each frame from Bill Munza's copy of the film, which was,

(01:14:59):
if not an original, it could have been an original or a first generation. It was one of the two.
All that to say, when you look at those enhanced versions, even before we get into Todd's restoration
work, you can see muscle movement. You can see the right thigh muscle of the subject of the film.

(01:15:24):
People have nicknamed her Patty. You can see that right thigh muscle contract and quiver,
vibrate as she takes a step as her weight distributes onto that right leg. You can see
this visibly flexing tricep muscle if you zoom in on the right frame as she swings her arm.

(01:15:47):
And when you combine what you see on film with the footprints that Roger Patterson and Bob
Gimlin later recovered, the casts, the fact that they were 18 inches long, the fact that
they had the mid-tarsal break, the fact that they had extremely intricate dermal ridges,

(01:16:08):
and the fact that they were 41 inches apart on average. And then you read the testimonies of the
many Hollywood special effects experts like Bill Munns who worked on, I believe it was
Planet of the Apes and a handful of others. He's written an entire book on it, this veteran

(01:16:29):
Hollywood special effects artist who says, yeah, there's no way anyone in my industry could have
come up with a suit this realistic in the 1960s. Forget it. I mean, we don't usually bother trying
to create convincing muscle movement now in today's films because, yeah, they can do it,
but it is not easy. That's why mostly hairy monster movies even up today, you'll notice they

(01:16:56):
cover a suit with thick enough hair that you can't see any simulated muscles because that's
so difficult to do from a costume production standpoint. Actually, there's a really, really
good example, just on the costume, sorry to interrupt Robert, there's a really good example
of this in the 90s film Harry and the Hendersons. This is a film about Bigfoot, about a family that

(01:17:19):
hits one on the road and brings it home thinking it's dead and then it wakes up and integrates with
their family. It's a great film, but that is an amazing costume. The, what they managed to do
with the face and the expressions in that suit are incredible, but they cover the legs and the
arms with tremendously long hair to disguise the fact that there is no realism when it takes

(01:17:42):
a step. You're not seeing muscle contraction. You're not seeing any of that stuff. You know,
and I think they got in terms of a practical effect, probably the closest to looking like what I,
in my head at that age thought, oh yeah, this is what a Bigfoot is going to look like.
And going back to it as an adult and comparing it side by side
to the Patterson Gimlin film, which was like nearly 30 years earlier, you just see that

(01:18:08):
if that was a costume in the Patterson film, they were doing better than Hollywood was doing
25 years afterwards, you know, and there's just no comparison at all.
It's one of those things where like most, most purported Bigfoot video clips and photos
look worse, look less convincing, the closer you look at them, both literally and figuratively,

(01:18:31):
the more you zoom in and the more you examine the circumstances, the less convincing,
the vast majority of purported Bigfoot captures are on camera. But the Patterson Gimlin film
turns that paradigm on its head. The more I look into the Patty film, the more I look at the

(01:18:52):
restoration work that's being done, the more I examine the details and I read the carefully
formulated thoughts and analyses by experts in various related fields, primatology, locomotion,
costume design experts, the more I realize that the idea that this thing's fake just doesn't

(01:19:15):
logically hold water. And then there's the fact that Roger Patterson, who died a few years, two
or three years after, maybe it was five years, he died of lymphoma five years after the film was
captured. People say he confessed it was fake on his deathbed. He didn't. He maintained that it was
real right up until the end. Didn't try to make any money off it. He actually could have capitalized

(01:19:41):
on that and needed the money if you look into his story for cancer treatments. But instead,
he spent the last of his money and his strength looking for Bigfoot in Asia, I believe, looking
for the Asian version of the year and perhaps or maybe it was the almas, one of the two.

(01:20:01):
And Bob Gimlin, who's still with us today, he's in his mid 90s. He has been rock solid and fully
committed to holding this up as a truthful version of what happened that we saw this creature. It
was a real creature. It was not a man in a suit. And I will die on that hill. I remember hearing

(01:20:28):
just somewhere like in the ether that Oh, the guy that was in the suit admitted that he did it.
Like he confessed to saying that, yeah, I put on a suit and I was walking or there was something
like that. And I can't help but draw comparisons in my brain to crop circles because there are

(01:20:48):
all these crop circles that pop up. And there was a group in I think it was the 90s that confessed,
yep, we fake them. I'll show you how to do it. And they took boards with ropes and they would
just kind of like march down these fields and make some pretty cool designs actually in the wheat.
But then there's these outliers that there's absolutely no way that they could have ever made

(01:21:14):
them with with planks and rope. It just is not a possibility at all. There's these knuckles that
are in the wheat that have radiation and it only could be used if it was heated up at high
temperatures and they're kind of like all woven together in this like really elegant pattern
that you're just like there's no way. And it makes me wonder like now you said that the Patterson

(01:21:34):
didn't he didn't confess even though people say that he did but it makes me wonder like why do people
even say that that happens, you know, because it's like if there's if there's evidence out there that
are it's so compelling as you as both you guys are saying why are there people out there that
try that they they try to diminish it by saying oh yeah we do we do all of these we we faked

(01:21:59):
everyone that's out there we faked but clearly not you know because it wouldn't it doesn't make
sense what you're saying it doesn't add up you know. Right well there's there's kind of there's two
halves to that that answer in my mind. First of all the there's the simple fact that as you pointed

(01:22:20):
out many of the phenomenon that are observed and recorded the Patterson Gimlin film being one and
many examples of reported big footprints being another there's the fact that many of those are
simply physically impossible as far as we know as far as experts in those various fields know
locomotion footprints film costumes these things are impossible to fake for all intents and purposes

(01:22:47):
now there are experts on both sides of that balance sheet some say it's possible but
with the Patterson Gimlin film when you weigh that balance it it seems to me heavier on the side of
the experts who say no this this couldn't have been faked so why why do people claim credit for
that well I think of one individual in particular who we touched on Bob Hieronymus he's the man who

(01:23:14):
claimed I was the guy in the suit in 67 Roger Patterson offered me a thousand dollars to
walk across this creek in this monkey suit that he had had made by a costume designer
and I did it and now 30 years later I'm confessing it was me sorry bigfoot believers

(01:23:36):
now quite apart from the fact that his testimony doesn't hold water I've gone into that in great
detail in some of my videos but the short version is he changed his story many times routinely
changed the details and couldn't come up with good answers when asked some basic questions like

(01:24:00):
how was the suit made what was the material he answered like three different ways over the years
his own brother Howard Hieronymus was on record is saying he didn't believe that it was Bob his
brother in the suit and he didn't even believe it was a suit this is the guy's own brother
and he's also tried to imitate the walk on camera he says see I can walk like bigfoot

(01:24:24):
proving it was me in the suit and it on the surface it kind of looks like it resembles but
when you look at the stride length side by side patty versus Bob Hieronymus without a suit
or the the angle at which he's swinging his arms there's like a kindergarten level of resemblance

(01:24:45):
and I've done that analysis in a very careful and detailed way at great length and
it wasn't him the evidence points to the fact that he was lying so again to get back to your
original question and I answer questions in a long way I'm sorry but you're good this is great he

(01:25:06):
he in his case and I believe in the cases of many people who come forward and say yeah
those bigfoot footprints that was me and my cousin we have fake bigfoot feet and we did
that for fun or I did the crop circles two reasons first of all prestige and second of all

(01:25:27):
the joy of spiting believers I believe I think those are the two main reasons the trolls
Hieronymus I think it's exactly and I don't think Bob Hieronymus fits into that category what I know
of him he seems to enjoy signing books about the Patterson Gimlin film analyses on the film

(01:25:51):
usually the style of books that try to paint it as a hoax and there's one in particular by a gentleman
named Greg Long who got all his interviews and did all his research for the book trying to present
it as a hoax with a bob at the center he attained all his information in very unethical ways you

(01:26:13):
know tried to break into the house of Roger Patterson's widow to gather evidence and pressured
people into saying things they didn't really think that they spoke about after the fact but
quite apart from that Bob Hieronymus has been known to sign copies of that book he didn't
write the book but I've seen him I've seen his signature in copies of that book where he signs

(01:26:36):
it you know Bob Hieronymus aka Bigfoot he's enjoying it he's he's he's lapping it up and I think
in his case and I think in the case of many people who come forward and say yeah that
unexplainable phenomenon there that was me I think they enjoy the the limelight and the
prestige of being the one who fooled so many people including experts in the field I guess

(01:27:02):
a certain kind of person would be inflated by that yeah that makes sense well I wanted to talk
about the rumors and I've heard these rumors from multiple places but the rumors that
that the US government could be aware that there is a small Sasquatch population

(01:27:25):
and that perhaps the Park Service or Department of Environment or whatever relevant government body
is actively working to keep them isolated and or protected do you have any thoughts on that
well I do now at the risk of I'm just pulling up a note here because like I'm really glad

(01:27:45):
you asked that Josh I was I was hoping we'd get to broach that one at the risk of sounding like a
nutcase conspiracy theorist I have come to believe that people in high places are fully aware of
the existence of these beings and it's not because I tend towards conspiracy theories as a rule

(01:28:06):
unless they seem to be the simplest explanation given all the evidence I'm aware of
in this case my reason for thinking that and I can get into afterwards the reasons you know
why I think the government or people in places of authority would be concealing that knowledge but

(01:28:30):
the reason I think it it's the case is simply verified quotes quite a few of them in fact from
police officers from park rangers and forest service workers I have a few of them here on my
phone quite a long list actually I'll only read a couple but retired forest service ranger

(01:28:51):
Charles E Howard said quote we'd hear strange calls in the woods sightings now and then but
we weren't supposed to acknowledge it orders came down to keep quiet people wouldn't be ready to hear
it pretty interesting of course he's just one guy but the list goes on Robert Morgan a retired

(01:29:12):
police officer said quote I knew people in my department who'd seen it seen Bigfoot but they
were afraid to speak careers reputations everything was on the line people have been told to stay
quiet another retired park ranger Bill Lunsford said quote many of us had sightings or found track

(01:29:35):
but the official stance was silence I got the message like everyone else Bigfoot sightings
are not to be shared I've got a dozen more like that from former police officers park rangers
are they all liars are they all mistaken I can't see how or why that would possibly be true so

(01:29:57):
we're left with the possibility that they're telling the truth and that seems to be the strongest
possibility in my mind doesn't answer why but clearly something funny is going on that's exactly
why I asked the crop circle or made that parallel between a crop circle and Sasquatch because
you know I was a little bit hesitant to bring it up but now you guys did like it's kind of

(01:30:19):
where my head's at too because it's like it just feels like there's so many comparisons to a lot
of the topics that we cover on this show from premonitions to UFOs to now Sasquatch to ghosts
paranormal things like that that like quantum mechanics and all this like the the fringe

(01:30:43):
of science I feel like it's starting to catch up to it I think AI is going to be a big factor in it
but I really do after diving into the UFO topic a lot I really do do think that the government
is fully capable of of keeping a secret like this mainly just to keep order they think that

(01:31:04):
people can't handle the truth and that if we go on the nightly news and Bigfoot is real that's the
headline people are going to lose their shit and stop paying taxes and you know god knows what's
going to happen so they do this to kind of keep order is kind of how I perceive it but what do
you think is that do you think that would be the reason why they would hide something like

(01:31:26):
this or do you think there's more like a nefarious reasoning well I've heard all sorts of theories
and I'll be upfront with you my own opinion on the reason is not fully formed yet I I try to inform
my opinions with facts and there's just not any hard and fast facts about this other than

(01:31:50):
this collection of quotes and others like them that at least tell us concealment is happening
but it doesn't shed any light as to why so we're left with Occam's razor the idea that
the simplest explanation is I believe what you said that there would be pandemonium you know

(01:32:12):
especially in North America and the US in particular I expect there would be a mixture
of chaotic fear and a whole bunch of trigger happy hunters going after every shadow and that would
end badly you have you know millions of gun owners in the US and they're all gunning for something

(01:32:37):
they thought didn't exist up until five minutes ago that walks like a man and looks like a man
people are going to die you know that's just the fact of the matter so that is most likely
if not the entire reason a large part of it I've also heard and somewhat researched other reasons

(01:33:00):
like you know if we find out or if it's acknowledged rather that a large undiscovered
bipedal primate with human like intelligence and human like physical features according to many
accounts from witnesses if this exists then the logging industry large parts of mining industries

(01:33:27):
the harvesting of natural resources in general will be vastly affected and not in a good way
industry will have to be slowed or halted and I think there are many people with
very strong financial vested interest in not allowing that to happen there would be

(01:33:51):
all sorts of ethical clashes I think if these were openly existed openly admitted to exist
so I think there's there's the sheer basic danger of scaring an entire continent of people
with the knowledge of something big and scary and kind of like us which arguably makes them

(01:34:16):
more scary to your average person and you know many of those people being armed there's the chaotic
realness of that possibility and and then there's the economic ramifications which
would not be small I think it's safe to say. I know a lot of the material you cover is more

(01:34:41):
material when it comes to Bigfoot like physical more physical evidence but what are your thoughts
on that more paranormal side of Bigfoot that maybe he's interdimensional I've heard that before
and all that kind of stuff do you think there's any credence to that at all or do you think it's

(01:35:02):
more of just people making up stories when it comes to that and Bigfoot is just simply a primate?
Well I'm yeah I'm very glad you asked that Justin because that's something that I don't
think you can avoid if you're being thorough in examining the Bigfoot phenomenon the the

(01:35:24):
woo-woo as people call it the idea that these beings are interdimensional and come from somewhere
else can engage in mind speak and telepathically conveying messages to people or that they're
possibly linked to to UFOs and aliens in some way or the Nephilim you know some sort of spiritual

(01:35:45):
physical hybrid creature recorded in the book of Genesis all of these possibilities are are part
of the Bigfoot phenomenon so I'll start by saying I absolutely do not think that Bigfoot would need
to be paranormal to exist you know people I think have a tendency to fall back on the interdimensional

(01:36:11):
aspect the potential interdimensional capabilities of these creatures as a reason why we don't have
any officially acknowledged bodies or any DNA that is beyond dispute although I would probably
argue that point but as we touched on earlier the wilderness is vast enough and unexplored enough

(01:36:36):
even in our modern era that just a plain old bipedal primate with a high degree of intelligence
could easily remain hidden and largely undiscovered without any magical powers 100% like anyone who
says otherwise simply hasn't looked at the numbers isn't aware of the fact that there's two billion

(01:36:58):
acres of wilderness in North America alone to say nothing of the many other countries worldwide
where being similar to this are reported or the fact that it would only take a relatively small
population of few thousand on the North American continent to maintain existence you know people

(01:37:19):
tend to think well you'd need a a breeding population of a hundred thousand or more no you wouldn't
and experts agree on that so it doesn't have to be paranormal but that doesn't mean it isn't
logically speaking um so my stance on that is that in the same way you buy the same argument

(01:37:42):
that there are a whole lot of reasonable sounding people with no vested interest no no reason to lie
you know unless they're just doing it for attention there's there are many people who have plain old
physical bipedal primate type encounters who don't seem to have any reason to lie who don't

(01:38:06):
sound like they're mistaking a bear for an upright ape and and there are tens of thousands of these
there are also a growing number of accounts that sound just as believable if i'm honest
of the paranormal sort there's not as many of them by a long shot i would say based on my experience

(01:38:30):
maybe 10 percent 10 to 15 percent of reported on the record encounters include some sort of
paranormal aspect so the creature seemed to vanish before their eyes or it went behind a
large tree and didn't come out the other side and they walked around the tree and it wasn't there
or they saw a glowing orb of light before during or after spotting the creature or it appeared to

(01:38:59):
shape shift into a different form that's what i mean when i say paranormal any one of the above
or or all of the above roughly 10 percent of encounters based on my knowledge of the body of
reports out there include something like that now are every single one of these people lying

(01:39:19):
that's what we have to ask ourselves 10 percent of 10 000 odd accounts that's a thousand people
who we have to believe are liars if we're going to dismiss the paranormal possibility
i'm not prepared to call those thousand believable sounding people who have no vested interest in

(01:39:43):
telling such a tale i'm not prepared to call them liars especially when you consider the fact that
what could their motivation for lying possibly be the classic answer from skeptics is while
they're doing it for attention but who in their right mind would want that kind of attention the
kind of attention you get even from saying you saw bigfoot and nothing else happened it was just

(01:40:05):
an ape walking around generally speaking the kind of attention you get from that isn't fantastic
but when you start bringing in orbs and portals and mind speak and alternate dimensions
you're going to be unemployed quite quickly yeah and i have discovered firsthand just how
little experiences actually want to share their story it's not easy yeah right so the idea it's

(01:40:31):
it's the classic answer from skeptics right why would all these people be lying well because
they want attention but they they really don't i mean how many you guys have you guys have have
explored enough of these fringe topics to know that i think you'll agree with me when i say the
majority of people who have had any kind of experience that fits into this broad category

(01:40:56):
of unexplained be it ufo's ghosts bigfoot most of them don't really want to talk about it
one thousand percent one thousand percent if i can just contribute to the idea that they
that there could be a spiritual or a kind of element

(01:41:16):
in australia and i'm just ripping ripping australia review but indigenous australians so
australian originals their stories of the yaoi are presented very matter of factly as the yaoi
being both a physical and non-physical being in australian indigenous tradition it is just an

(01:41:38):
accepted fact that it is both things so there's not only witnesses we're talking about entire
indigenous cultures that have adopted a similar belief system around this with thousands of years
of history thousands of years australian indigenous people have some of the longest history on earth
and it's it's very hard to dismiss it without you know when you think about what you are truly

(01:42:05):
dismissing it's it's it's yeah it's not easy to dismiss that no no it's not i've actually um i i did
a video um a couple of months back about the yaoi and i think i only scratched the surface i think
i'll have to do a follow-up but my goodness i mean honestly i i think it's quite plausible

(01:42:27):
that there's a spiritual or paranormal aspect to this because in addition to not being willing
to call any of the modern encounters or rather call all of the modern encounters that include
that sort of aspect liars i'm not willing to do that i have no logical basis to do that
i'm certainly not willing to dismiss and you know turn my nose up at tens of thousands of

(01:42:54):
years of indigenous tradition from australia and and other parts of the world as you say who
of this it's not even a belief i'm sure you've probably spoken to enough indigenous folks to
know that it's just a fact of life for them like yeah no of course they're real yeah and and they

(01:43:15):
have spiritual capabilities yeah absolutely and you know just like the beaver or the eagle that
it's just it's it's a real being to them that is woven into their world view so seamlessly and and
so consistently for hundreds upon hundreds of generations that it becomes as you say extremely

(01:43:41):
difficult to dismiss and if you find yourself dismissing it one has to wonder you know examine
oneself well why why am i dismissing this so consistent and nine times out of ten as i've
mentioned earlier i find the answer is fear i'll say something else that as you guys were talking

(01:44:03):
that just kind of like popped in my mind with i guess you could say like my quote unquote expertise
or maybe just my strength of of knowledge with with alien and the histories of that
is there is this theory that we were genetically modified right like that that from lower primates
like chimpanzees aliens came down here 300 000 years ago and basically used like a crisper

(01:44:29):
like tool to change our dna and create us and create our you know how how how we are as humans
and it made me think if that was us in the future and we were able to travel to a different land
and see these different species and we flew our ships down there and had a tool like crisper

(01:44:58):
are you are you familiar with crisper do you know what that that tool is oh yeah okay yeah okay
i think we as humans would definitely do that we would take a species and say okay you have
promise and you're going to manipulate the dna and alter the alter their course of their evolution
you know this way do you think i'm not sure if this is a theory not because i literally just

(01:45:19):
thought of it but is it possible that that that something similar happened to
a species of primate that had specific genetic
markers that would now fall into the category of sasquatch like the mid-tarsal break and like

(01:45:42):
these different things that because if we wanted to right now we probably could create a sasquatch
like with crisper if we if we had the dna of a chicanthopithecus and a gorilla and this and we
can kind of map the genome of what everyone says that sasquatch is could probably create it at this

(01:46:03):
point or at least in the future we could so i guess my question is is that a theory or am i just
absolutely losing my mind and what do you think about all that well i i certainly think it's
plausible one of the difficulties in exploring a phenomenon where we have so few definitive

(01:46:24):
answers other than the evidence says they exist there are thousands of reports and a small
percentage of them include something paranormal such as mind speak or dimension shifting
other than those few points no one really knows you know when you ask what what are

(01:46:50):
sasquatches what exactly are they are they an undiscovered upright ape and nothing more
maybe but there's enough things that say otherwise that it at least gives me pause
could they have come from the stars in some way shape or form perhaps combined genetically with
as you said something that already existed in a far more primitive version on earth

(01:47:16):
sure maybe well why not one of the things about these sorts of theories is that
many people including people in the bigfoot research world which i find to be
frustrating and puzzling they will be dismissive of this but i mean you're already halfway there

(01:47:36):
you know in in terms of acknowledgement of this species why are you so stuck on the upright
great ape paradigm and that is most of what i focus on thus far in my videos but i do have
some projects in mind for the future delving more into the paranormal aspect it's just that
it's difficult to do that when most of what you have is theories and not facts but to dismiss

(01:48:02):
the theories because they don't fit with a materialistic viewpoint of the universe
and our place in it that's that's so short-sighted i picture it like a like a ven diagram and two
circles overlapping just slightly in the center and the people in the left hand circle are the

(01:48:25):
materialistic ones if they acknowledge the possibility of bigfoot existing it's definitely
only an undiscovered ape and nothing else and then the people on the right hand side of the circle
well the right hand side of the circle might not even have people it has ghosts and spirits and
aliens and bigfoot creatures that are not just great apes that can communicate telepathically

(01:48:49):
and move from one dimension to the other and that right hand circle also includes
all the other dimensions that we don't know about and then there's this tiny percentage
of overlap between the two circles where there are some people who claim to have for whatever
reason a direct line with some of these entities some of these phenomenons and the vast majority

(01:49:16):
of the people in the left hand circle the materialistic side either are viscerally dismissive
or apathetic in the case of most people they would fall into the apathetic category
how do you know when you're not in that right hand circle and and you're not even in the

(01:49:38):
overlap zone how are you in a position to say that neither the overlap zone nor the right
hand circle even exist from what standpoint can you logically say that the fact is you can't
so could bigfoot have been ceded by aliens absolutely why not give me a solid reason why

(01:49:59):
not and i'll acknowledge it but to be open-minded you have to be willing to say that until we have
undeniable facts about something that preclude other explanations then everything we know could be wrong

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