September 30, 2024 • 64 mins
In this episode of Conversations with Your Chinese Auntie, host Patricia Petersen sits down with Nichole Lee, an internationally recognized trauma-informed multidisciplinary healer. Nichole shares her experiences of discovering her African heritage and dealing with profound grief after her mother's passing, and how these events shaped her into the healer and spiritual guide she is today.
The discussion covers themes of identity, community, and the importance of somatic and spiritual practices in navigating life transitions. The conversation delves into themes of grief, identity, belonging, and the necessity of support systems in healing. Patricia and Nichole also discuss the logistics behind organizing retreats and the value of clear communication within support communities.
Nichole also speaks about her upcoming retreats focused on grief release and receiving more joy and abundance in life.
Nichole's Website
Nichole's Upcoming Retreats
Connect with Nichole on Instagram
Bio:
Nichole is an internationally recognized Trauma-Informed Multidisciplinary Healer, Intuitive Guide, Spiritual Teacher, Speaker, Well-Being Educator, Retreat Host, and Podcast Host, offering a sanctuary for healing and growth.
She specializes in helping individuals in creating more authentic and fulfilling lives so they can live out their wildest dreams.
With expertise spanning across spirituality, positive psychology, neuroscience, energy healing, meditation & mindfulness, health & well-being, trauma-informed care, and 20 years prior experience in global business management consulting, Nichole offers a holistic approach to supporting her clients and audiences as they navigate their life journeys.
Her podcast, 'Transcending Identity,' with listeners in over 30 countries serves as platform for discussions on personal transformation and triumph over their challenges. Through her engaging conversations, Nichole illuminates the path for countless others, showcasing the power of personal stories in the collective journey towards living an authentic and fulfilling life.
At the core of Nichole’s mission is an unwavering belief that love and compassion are essential to healing the world. She believes that fostering love within ourselves magnifies the love we extend to others, igniting healing across communities and the world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, everyone.
I hope you're doing well while cometo conversations with your Chinese.
Auntie podcast.
YiYi I am your host, Patricia Petersen.
In this podcast, I have conversationswith BIPOC folks about life.
. If you enjoy this podcast,please, can you please share the
(00:25):
podcast with your friends, like,and subscribe to this podcast?
It is available on most podcastchannels like apple and Spotify.
. . In this episode.
I welcome Nichole Lee.
(00:45):
Nichole is an internationally recognizedtrauma informed multi disciplinary healer.
Intuitive guide spiritual teacher.
Speaker.
Wellbeing educator retreat,host and podcast host offering a
sanctuary for healing and growth.
We had a great conversation.
(01:07):
The topics range from grief.
To community sense of belonging.
And she shared her upcoming retreats.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
. Hello, Nichole.
(01:27):
Hi, Patricia.
How are you today?
I am great.
It's a rainy day in Vancouver where Ilive and yeah, I'm excited to have you on.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Please introduce yourself, what youdo, where you're from, your lineage.
(01:52):
Sure.
So I am Nichole Lee.
I serve as a trauma informedmultidisciplinary healer, intuitive guide.
Well being educator, spiritual coach,retreat leader, and a podcast host.
And I mostly support individuals whoare feeling stuck or unfulfilled.
Um, many times it's tied to somelife transition and wanting some
(02:15):
support to really create a moreauthentic and fulfilling life.
So that's the work I do.
I do that individually and asin group, in group settings.
Um, I currently live in Atlanta,but I spend part of my time in L.
A.
I'm in the process of moving back to L.
A., to La La Land.
Uh, lived there prior to Atlanta.
And it's interesting that you asked,and I'm originally from Detroit.
(02:38):
The interesting, I love that you askedabout origin because Trisha, I didn't know
a lot about my origin outside of beingin the U S I knew I was a black woman.
Um, however, I ended updoing, uh, my ancestry.
com African ancestry.
com recently and received the resultslast August, this past August.
(03:02):
And I didn't realize how much it would.
shift me emotionally in my identity.
So as someone who is from the States,did not have as much background and
rooting, um, just knowing the origin onmy, my mother's side and my mother passed
away six years as of yesterday, um, itreally gave me a sense of connection
(03:24):
to Africa, um, to know those things.
So I appreciate that you asked that,but knowing that I'm from From,
you know, areas such as Liberiaand Sierra Leone and Senegal.
Um, it just really shifted things for me.
Uh, I used to say as a little light fairskinned black girl who was told that
(03:45):
she wasn't black enough many times inmy life, it felt so good to have the
evidence of my lineage and background.
So.
I just thank you for asking that.
Cause I didn't realize how much of aemotional response I would have to it.
Like I knew I'd be excited.
(04:06):
Right.
In the Guinea Bissau too.
I think that's how you describeit to, um, pronounce it.
That's another one of my origins.
But when I got it, Iliterally felt it in my body.
I was like, wow, I know where I'm from.
Um, and so, yeah, so that's, that's,that's a little bit about me and
just something recently that has.
(04:26):
It's shifted how I see myselfand how I show up in the world.
So thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.
I am curious when you say you'vefelt it in your body, was it
like a sense of belonging?
Yes, it was a deeper sense of belonging.
So I think, um, as many individualssuch as myself, and it's actually
(04:47):
why I'm hosting a retreat in SouthAfrica next year, um, You are proud
of your background, your ethnicity.
However, in certain spaces, particularlyalso when I, when it comes to what we
typically identify, um, sometimes in what.
(05:09):
Blackness and African roots,the importance of that, right?
And understanding where you are fromas someone who did not have that.
I did feel like I belonged.
I felt like I had more language.
I felt like I had extended family.
So for example, Me knowing that partof my roots was tied to Liberia.
(05:30):
I have friends that are firstgeneration American that were Liberian.
When they found out they were sendingme, I was like from the Pele tribe.
One of my friend's father'sis from that tribe.
So he was like, welcome sister.
Right.
And started sharing videosand, you know, music.
And it just created this, this.
(05:53):
Beyond the belonging,but like family, right?
Like I literally felt like people whowere in my life were truly family, like
our roots were from the same place.
So I think that just in the, um,not just the book and the belonging,
but like a depth of it, right?
Like actually visualizing, seeing thatlineage or imagining how I was from
(06:15):
that tribe and how even we're similarin age and how we could have really
just expanded kind of in that same.
Lineage and journey.
So yes, for sure.
Uh, it, it was just avery warming feeling.
There was a different level of pride.
There's a different with, with manythings that we discover with that identity
(06:36):
going into certain spaces and places.
I've started researching music.
I've been listening to more, um,artists from those areas, right.
And really feeling in tune.
So I think the other thing isI felt more in tune, like even
with myself, there's things that.
Beats and songs and things that I alreadywere so connected to or how I danced.
(06:59):
I used to go to things, um, Patricia,like I go to an event and people would
actually ask me where I was from.
And they'd be like, you can't justbe from the U S like the way you
dance, the way you move, right.
And I'd be like, It made me feel good, butI'm like, huh, it's in my roots, right?
It's in my DNA that these thingsthat I might not have been exposed
(07:20):
to were actually part of me.
So it was so deep and rich,uh, from that perspective.
And it has opened my eyes todesire to learn and know more
and to connect at a deeper level.
So yes.
For sure.
Yeah.
And, and that's so healing.
You know, I, in, I work with in mywork as a therapist, as a counselor,
(07:43):
most of my clients are women of color.
And when appropriate, I dobring up ancestral healing.
I find knowing that part, the lineages,can be so healing and can help with our
healing journey, even understanding andeating what our ancestors used to eat.
(08:05):
Yes, I started looking at that.
I was like, huh.
To your point, yes.
I didn't mean to interruptyou, but I'm just nodding.
I'm like, yes, for sure.
The healing part is so key.
It's so, that's just so spot on.
I'm going to ask you a veryignorant question on my part.
(08:27):
Is your last name the original last name?
Because for me, L E E is an Asianlast name in my knowledge, right?
So, and I'm asking that becausemy maiden was changed when my
grandfather went to get his passport.
(08:49):
So, I'm curious, is your last name Lee?
It is.
Yeah, it is Lee and it is American.
I mean, you think there's General Lee.
I mean, there are.
Right.
There are Americanswith the last name Lee.
Um, and I have not gone backto really connect to how far
(09:11):
back, you know, it really sits.
And it could have been somethingfrom, from a colonization, right.
That we took on that last name, butmy grandfather's last name is Lee.
My great grandfather, William Lee,like, So it's very far in our lineage,
but we, as you know, many times weinherited, you know, especially as slaves
inherited sometimes the master's lastname or, um, was giving a new name.
(09:36):
But yes, as far as just my experienceliving in the lead last name.
And it is interesting that you saythat because even, um, So I was
in business management consulting,which means, you know, I work with
different companies and industries asa consultant and it always threw people
off when they would see Nichole Lee.
(09:58):
And, you know, now we have videoand, you know, LinkedIn, we have
pictures, but I remember, forexample, I was coordinating an event.
For something we were doing inShanghai, worked on global projects.
And I had been communicatingback and forth with the
ladies there and everything.
And I remember the first time comingup the escalator at the hotel.
(10:18):
And I was like, asking, I forgot thelady's name, but I was asking for
the person I had been working with.
And you should have seen her.
It was like,
I just thought you were going.
I was like, I know ithappens all the time.
And then I was on aproject with a young lady.
(10:39):
Um.
Her name was Noel Cole.
She had a French last name and thenwith my Asian last name, but she was
of Asian descent and French descent.
They get us confused because they justfigured I'd probably have the French
last name and, you know, she'd have Lee.
So, um, it's, it's something that'sbeen very common my entire life.
(11:00):
I go places and I send my, you know,my ID people think I'm married.
That's my married name.
So it's very common.
It's been common my entire life.
Does it, does it bother you at all?
Not at all.
It has not, it has never bothered me.
I, um, I've always found it interestingand, and kind of fun and cool.
(11:21):
You know, like I say, even withmy colleague, we used to be
like, guess who's, you know,guess who's who, you know?
Um, and then when I realizedjust, just like you say, typically
the origin of that last name.
It, for me, it was like, why would I getupset when typically that is the origin?
Like if you asked.
A significant amount of people,they would more than likely
(11:42):
think it was an Asian last night.
You know what I'm saying?
It's not like it was just thisodd thing where people, um,
were being difficult or rude.
It's just basically kind oftypically how we understood it.
But yeah, it never bothered me.
I thought it was cool.
And I love that my name was so short.
It's so easy.
What's funny too, Patricia, is many peoplewill actually think my name is Nichole.
(12:07):
So I, I went to school withsomeone, her name was Shawn Lee.
So people would be like, Nichole Lee?
And I'm like, no, it's Nichole Lee.
So it looks like it would be like,Nichole Lee something, right?
Nichole Peterson orsomething, like, you know?
So that was the other thing,so I'm like, it's Nichole.
Lee.
(12:28):
Now, the other thing I will saythough, the H saves me a bit because
without the H is even more challenging.
So my H gives me a little bit ofuniqueness with my name spell N I C H
O L E, but it does make it challengingfrom a business perspective because, so
I started adding my L because look howmany Nichole Lees there are in the world.
(12:50):
It's a very common name.
So my parents didn't quitethink about that, uh, as much.
So I use a lot of times I'll use mymiddle initial now, especially as I become
an entrepreneur, just to differentiateor distinguish me from other Nicholes.
That's true.
I, I didn't even think about howmany Nicholes there are out there.
(13:13):
Oh my gosh, you know, it's,yeah, so, yeah, but that
hasn't, it never bothered me.
I thought it was pretty cool.
I think it was because probably too,like I say, before pictures and finding
people on social media, it was a way forme to be like, hi, you thought I might
be different, might look different.
Surprise.
(13:35):
Yeah, I get, I get that the, theassumption people make, because
when I took on my husband's,Peterson is my husband's last name.
Okay.
And before people, They meet me, theywill be like, Oh, she must be British.
So yeah, I think they meet me.
They're like, okay, all right.
(13:56):
That's fine.
Um, and I think that's the beautyof now the world we live in.
You can't make those assumptions, right?
We never know it could be the rootname, married name, change name.
So it is kind of fun when youreally start to just look at it
from a curiosity perspective.
So I appreciate you asking the question.
Thank you.
Uh, Just a side note, Iwas in Atlanta in December.
(14:23):
I wish I'd met you before that.
Yeah, would have been great to connect.
I know the, but I, one of theepisodes, I was talking to one of
my girlfriends who was also there.
I was, I was there to do a training.
And oh my God, the airport.
That was an experience on its own.
(14:43):
I did not realize howbusy the airport was.
But I love Atlanta.
I think it's the busiestin America, I think.
If it's not, then it's like the second.
Yeah.
Yeah, one of the uh, uh, the otherwomen in the group from Atlanta,
she said it is the busiest.
Yeah, I think it's the number one.
Yeah.
But what a great, whata great place, Atlanta.
(15:05):
The energy and the culture.
That was great.
That's awesome.
I'm so glad you had a good time.
I did, I did.
I would love to hear about your journey.
Whatever stands up for you, careerand even childhood, significant
things that brought you to this point.
(15:25):
Yeah, I would say the most significantthing that's brought me to this
point in me becoming a soulpreneur.
So not solo, cause many peoplethink I'm saying solo soul.
Um, Is that I believe my divineassignment, my soul was to do the
work that I'm currently doing.
So I will back up prior to that.
(15:46):
The real shift was my mother wasdiagnosed with cancer May of 2018,
and she died September 22nd of 2018.
And so, I took care of my mother duringthat time, and I'm so grateful that I
had that opportunity, that I was employedand had the luxury, right, we know that's
a luxury and a privilege, to be ableto take care of Take care of my mother,
(16:12):
um, take off work and not worry aboutfinancials and being able to do that.
I am very grateful for, for that.
And through taking care of my mother, itbecame very apparent to me, particularly
from a Western medicine perspective,That we do not look at the whole person.
(16:33):
We are heavy on surgeries andpharmaceuticals, uh, heavy on just
creating the kind of the systematicapproach from mother had cancer, right?
Like, Oh, this is what we do.
We cut it out.
We go to these types of therapies, chemoor radiation and hope for the best.
Right.
Like, so that part wasvery alarming to me.
(16:54):
I knew people who had been diagnosed.
I knew other friends and family, butit's different when it's your parent.
Right.
And it just wakes you up around that.
And the reason why I shared that, um,Patricia is because, My obsession now
with like nutrition and energy andlooking at the whole part of a person was
(17:16):
amplified with my mother becoming ill.
So me starting to do logs and search onwhat foods are healing foods, what foods
help with edema, what are cancer fightingfoods, all these types of things that,
You know, you kind of pass by and knowfor health and nutrition, but the depth
of it was really at that point in time.
(17:37):
Um, I took my mom to see a Reiki healer.
I knew of Reiki before I had some work,um, done, but it was again, more of a
surface level, but the impact that ithad on her and calming her body and
the peace is part of the reason whyI now am a Reiki master, for example.
Um, I became a health coachsoon after my mother died.
(17:59):
As example, I became certified inhealth coaching because I wanted
to understand the whole person.
Uh, my journey with spiritualismshifted as a result, why I do that work.
So she really was the, thatexperience was the catalyst or
the activation into what I do now.
Um, The other part of it though,is with my mother passing.
(18:21):
And now what I know about grief and theshift of your life and all these types
of things, I started questioning my life.
You know, I really started questioningwhat am I doing with my life?
If I was on my dying bed, wouldI be pleased with the life that
I've lived and how I've served?
Was I authentic?
Because I looked at the peoplethat knew my mother and the con
(18:41):
the, the through line of her.
boldness and courage and differentattributes about her with people.
She worked at the samecompany for 37 years.
So to see people who knew her atdifferent stages in the common thread
about who she was, had me thinking tomyself, like how consistent or what
(19:01):
does that messaging look like for me?
And so that took me down a wholepath of saying, you know, I've
been living other people's lives.
I've been following what's a traditionalprotocol for your life, being educated,
you get a good job, you have a 401k,you know, you make more than the average
person, you travel, like all the thingsthat are supposed to be fulfilling.
(19:25):
But when I look, I was, I had momentsof happiness, but I was not fulfilled.
And so I had gone throughthat self discovery journey.
I'd become certifiedin several modalities.
I mean, hypnotherapy, um, energyhealing, all of these things.
And then through depths of meditation,Patricia, what really happened,
what really truly had me take theleap, is my mother came to me in
(19:48):
a meditation and told me to quit.
In the midst of COVID in 2020, and therewas something in me that there was no
question I had to do it because peopleare like, how did you rationalize?
I just felt and knewthat's what I had to do.
So I left my 20 year career behind.
(20:10):
I went on a 20, a self discovery journey,started kind of putting it out there.
It was a life and healthcoach and just went on this
experimental journey for some time.
That then led me to where I amnow and very clear on how I serve.
So.
I thank my mother.
I say my mother's death was myrebirth that you can have grief and
(20:32):
gratitude, but I am very grateful forthe gift that she gave me for me to
live in purpose on purpose and doingfulfilling work every single day.
Will you share your mother's name?
Vicky Lee.
So that's the thing that was funny too.
Can you imagine calling the housewith two people who sound just alike?
(20:56):
Because if I sent you a voice noteof my mother, people, Vicky, Nikki,
and then the Icky sounding thesame, so you still didn't get it.
And then they try to shorten it and say,Vic, Nick, it still sounds the same.
So it had to be the older oneversus the younger one because
otherwise, but we look alike.
We sound alike.
We have very similar mannerisms.
(21:17):
She was my best friend, butyes, good old Vickie Lee.
Let's name Vickie Lee.
Well, ancestor.
Yes.
What?
What was?
Your mom's common thread, common theme.
As far as, well, particularly withher personality, and this is what had
(21:40):
me reflecting on my life, My motherwas authentically her and she did
not live by anybody's expectations.
Um, she was in my eyes, very fearlessand though we have our own fear, but like
the, I would say, I'll take that back.
It was more of the courageous.
So my mother was very unconventional,um, in the way she thought, the way she
(22:03):
showed up, particularly in the traditionalaspects of what a mother should be in the
eighties, seventies, eighties, nineties.
And so that was the common threadjust to, for anyone listening to
visualize my mother had a blueCamaro with white leather seats.
Okay.
And my mother wore leggings and highheels and bright colors and she had
(22:26):
big black hair, even to the end.
Okay.
So you could just imagine,and this is a woman who, as
she had a job, she worked at.
healthcare company.
But again, what that was supposed,the individuals who dress like that,
or she'll wear bright pink lipstick,the perception of what that was to
be, to be a wonderful mother or, youknow, that type of thing, she was just
(22:50):
unconventional and she didn't care.
And when I look at my life, Iwas like, wow, why do I care so
much what people think of me?
And I remember my mother alwayssaying that she was like, you care
so much what people think, you know?
Um, and so that, that was acommon thread and she was funny.
Uh, she loved to dance.
(23:11):
She loved to eat.
I get that from her.
We are some seriousfoodies, uh, love shoes.
We had that in clothes.
But yeah, with that, I think that wasa common thing, like that, that big
old beautiful smile, that big hair and,and, um, her, her fun personality, but
really the unconventional, courageousto live her own life all the way to the
(23:34):
end, to the point that my mother, youknow, when she was diagnosed, and this
is very uncomfortable for many people,but my mother decided she wanted to die.
That was hard for me to take in at thetime, but when I reflect and it brings
tears of my eyes out of gratitudeof like, if I'm going to live this
life, I'm going to do it on my terms.
(23:56):
And if I can't be the person I was.
If I can't be vibrant, if I can't befun, if I can't hang out, if I can't
do that, then it's my time to go.
And I share that because that's difficultfor many people who are taking care
of someone and they want them to livebecause they don't want them to leave.
(24:18):
But it has me, had me reallythinking about the importance
of living life on your terms.
And that is exactly what she did.
And I know she stayed alittle bit longer for me.
Um, but yeah, she even did it on herown terms all the way to the end.
(24:40):
We agreed when she wasgoing to go into hospice
and we counted down the days together
until she went into a coma.
And now I cry mostly, um, ifanyone's listening to this, I cry
(25:04):
more of the, again, the gratitudeof finding the meaning and the
messages in the experience.
It's less about the sadness and the,the feeling of gratitude that has been
extended to me to look at life deeper,to see, to not let things pass me by,
(25:29):
but to see the power of being presentand really allowing that to, um, to
fill my body up, um, in a way thatI had not experienced before this.
Thank you for sharing that.
(25:51):
Thank you.
I love what you share about your mom.
I'll share a bit about, the common theme.
A few years ago.
Well, maybe 10 years ago, Oprah cameto Vancouver and I went to watch
her and she talked about the commontheme, the common thread in your life.
(26:12):
And, um, when my dad died.
I always knew he was agood guy, but he was kind.
He was fun, but I didn't know the extentof his kindness until his during his wake.
(26:33):
This older man came,he must be in his 80s.
And he came during the day.
So in Singapore, where my parents lived,if you're Buddhist, the wake is either
three to five days, and it's outside.
This older man came probably earlyeighties and he was just like,
I'm just coming to pay my respect.
He was very, sweet.
(26:53):
And I'm just like, wouldyou like something to eat?
Is there anything I can get for you?
He said, no, no, no, no.
Your father was the kindest man.
He said one time he didn'thave any money for coffee.
My dad pulled out the last few dollars.
In his wallet to give to this man.
Wow, that's beautiful.
(27:17):
. I'm curious.
You were able to look at thispainful experience of losing
your mother and said to yourself,okay, something needs to shift.
I need to change my life.
What gave you the strength to do?
Because Someone else might justgo, Nope, too hard, not gonna do.
(27:40):
But for the listeners, I'm curious,were there a few things that helped
you to go, you know what, the lifeI'm living now is not working anymore?
Yeah, I would say one of thegreatest gifts that I also have
realized has been a privilege andluxury, um, is that I had support.
(28:02):
I had, I have an amazing father, anamazing father, um, who was there for
me, who allowed me the opportunityto ebb and flow in my emotions.
Um, my father's always been anamazing person where I never
had to filter what I felt.
(28:24):
And I think that was really important.
Even things of suicidal ideation, youknow, a lot of people can't, don't feel
they can go to the people closest to them.
And divulge that type of information.
I could do that with my father.
I could share with him and hewalked me through those moments.
Right.
I had an amazing partner.
(28:47):
Um, we are no longer together,but he's an amazing human being.
We met months before mymother was diagnosed.
I believe he was a blessingbrought into my life because he
had lost his father to cancer.
So to know someone that you sharewith them, Hey, my mom has cancer.
And though they'll never know howyou feel, but to understand what that
(29:11):
is to have a parent and know kindof the cycles that may transpire,
that was healing for me as well.
Also being able to expressmyself, being able to, again,
go through the ebbs and flows.
I know he was integral to,to my support system as well.
And then I had other, I had friends.
So I recognize that someindividuals don't have that.
(29:36):
And that's where there is astruggle, not feeling safe, seen
or heard within their inner circle.
I did have that.
Um, and so what I would say to someoneand invite someone who does not have that.
I was a crisis textcounselor, for example.
So I had trained to help individualswho are in crisis or did not feel
(29:58):
safe having those conversations.
They have those around the world,you know, seeking out, they're not
always advertised as externallyas they probably should, right.
Cause of the money andall that and marketing.
Um, But seeking out, um, those types oforganizations, because we are trained,
you know, I don't do that now, but wewere trained, we will work through the
(30:21):
sensitivity, being trauma informed,holding space, helping individuals.
So I, I invite individuals to do that.
Um, what I did not take advantage of that.
I think I would now is findinga grief support group that
that really aligned with me.
And it's part of the reasonwhy I'm building one.
Because just knowing thereare other people that say,
(30:44):
wow, I'm feeling that as well.
They don't always have to be technicallyastute or, you know, a counselor or
therapist, but having a community ofindividuals that have that relatability
of experience can help you with that.
Right.
Again, it's a being seen andheard and understood that we
know is typically a challenge.
So I would say that as well.
(31:05):
And then there are obviously likeFacebook groups and things of that
nature, but that was huge for me.
Thank you.
That was, that was huge for me.
Um, and then I think the other piecetoo, as I'm just a naturally, I've
come to realize I'm a person whois, has that resilience in them.
I've had other traumatic experiencesprior to my mother's, um, death
(31:27):
that I just desire to bounce back.
And I, I assume that's probably frommy childhood, but I think some of
us were just kind of born with alittle bit extra resilience in us.
And so I think that'salso what it was, was.
I knew I needed to do something with this.
I could not let mymother's death be in vain.
I could not let my life be in vain.
(31:48):
And so the moments that I was exhausted,the moments that even I'm just like,
why do I have to have this awakeningand go into this new space in my life?
I was constantly reminded of the why.
You know, I don't wantother people to suffer.
I don't want other people to go throughmaybe the pains that I've gone through.
So if I keep going, I also become.
(32:12):
Faith and hope for people.
I also become part of the healingcommunity that I had sometimes outside of
my inner circle had challenges finding.
So those are a few things, but Ithink community and connection are
foundational with any type of shiftthat we make or we have in our life.
(32:33):
And I don't think wetalk about that enough.
And I think after now doing thiswork and I know what the work you
do, a lot of it comes to that.
You know, a lot of it is like, I don'thave the one person that will just listen
to me and not judge me or not have aperspective about my life or an opinion.
And man, you don't realize, again, that'swhy I say luxury and privilege, because
(32:57):
it wasn't until I was going throughthis that I realized how many people
and the work that I do now presently,you know, in this a lot, realizing how
many people feel they don't have that.
Yeah.
Being seen and heard is.
We all want that right and I often, Ilove that you share that there was so
(33:23):
many different parts that helped youbecause oftentimes I'll say to clients
so and this is a lesson I had to learnin my own life too is that we cannot
expect one person to fulfill all of us.
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
(33:43):
Let's just even talkabout girlfriends, right?
Like, I have a close, I, I don'thave many, many friends, but I
have a group of close girlfriends,but one might be good way.
She, one of them, she's good if Ineed someone to, you know, stand
up for myself, stand up for me.
If there's racism involved,she's who I call them.
(34:05):
Another one, she's goodif I need help with.
legal stuff because that's her skill set.
Another one is she's, she'swho I call it if I need some
loving handholding and stuff.
But I think in the Western society,a lot of us think, especially in
relationship to that one person shouldfulfill our needs, be all things.
(34:28):
Yes.
And that's a lot of pressure.
And then if you go with thatmentality, you're going to
be constantly disappointed.
That your friends cannot meetyou where you want to be.
But if you have different peoplethat go, ah, she's good at that.
He's good at that.
I'm going to reach out to do that.
(34:48):
One thing I wonder whetheryou have any input on this.
One thing that some of my clientsdo face is that lack of community
in your experience and also personalexperience and also working with groups.
If someone is having a hard timefinding community, making friends.
(35:13):
Any advice for them?
Yes, and may I backtrack to whatyou were just saying too about
the one size fits all culture.
Like, the person is supposedto be all the things.
Um, what is really powerful and what Idid learn more about too, Particularly
with losing a parent and one of my closefriends, we had to have that conversation
(35:39):
that though they wanted to be therefor me, they had both of their parents.
So there were other people that I had tobe intentionally saying, you know what?
They're going to have therelatability of this again, right?
Very different.
So even conversations of people thatwere closer to me that I would have
been having more conversation with.
Could not serve me the way I neededto based on the circumstance.
(36:03):
And I think that is so powerful thatyou said that because you're right.
A lot of times in the culture, it's likethe person you've known the longest, the
person that you typically talk to everyday, the person that you set expectations
should be there for all of the things.
And this is what really did help me becomemore mindful of where people could support
(36:25):
and then how do I communicate that.
So there's something I sayquite a bit with clients and
friends and even for myself.
I call it the two C's.
Checking to see if someone iscapable of supporting you and
if they have the capacity.
To support you.
(36:45):
So what sometimes happens is Iknow Patricia is highly capable.
She's a therapist.
She knows the things, but Patricia isgoing through a lot and may not have the
capacity to support me the way I needin this moment, then there's Nichole.
Who has all the capacity,maybe she's on vacation, right?
(37:07):
She, she has some time, butnow I'm going to her and she
does not have the capability.
What I need to be said ormaybe education or empowerment.
So again, what is it you're looking for?
And then if someone fit intothose, and sometimes you need
both, I need Patricia to be capableand have the capacity, right?
(37:28):
So that's, what's really helped me.
And it's helped me communicate Sometimeswhen I need to shift, because if
I am talking about trauma informedwork or my job as an entrepreneur,
some of those things can't happenbecause of the shift of who I've
become and who they are in my life.
So I typically use the two C'sbecause usually we can, you know,
(37:49):
we like, ah, and then you might add,you know, so your own, but those
are two that I just wanted to share.
And then the other part thatyou mentioned around community.
And the challenges, I think partof it that I help my clients is
actually becoming more expansivein the way they look at community.
And it also gets to what you weretalking about of how are you defining.
(38:12):
What these relationships look like.
So if community is more of a connectionto someone that say similar, then
you may be changing your expectationsof what you need that actually makes
that easier to create community.
You may have a siloed view.
For example, you may be saying,well, I thought it was in grief.
(38:33):
You may just want anotherwoman who's over 40.
Right.
And though they might not have thegrief experience, just being able to
connect with another woman that is40 plus can help you build community.
So I think that's another one isbecoming more expansive, looking
at all the different elements ofyourself, redefining what connection
(38:54):
and community looks like to you.
And most cases you're able to findone or two people as a result.
The other thing is settingexpectation on engagement.
Right.
Sometimes again, joining a Facebookgroup where you don't necessarily have
to engage, but you're seeing otherpeople's experience can be an element of
(39:14):
community because you at least feel thatyou're not alone, that other people are
experiencing things, but that doesn'tmean you actually have to respond.
You don't have to engage.
It may be just knowing thatyou are not alone in the world.
Right?
So this is what that expansivenessof maybe thinking, giving a different
perspective of what the real need is,because I think that's part of it is
(39:36):
communicating what the need is as well.
It's like, I just want toknow I'm not the only one.
You could do a Google search, right?
And they're like, Oh my gosh, right?
And you find a community.
If you're saying I want to have in depthconversation, I want to talk with someone.
Um, there are groups, for example,you do that and you may see
where other people are engaging.
(39:58):
You may actually even see what theirpersonality types are that can create
a sense of safety and comfort toreach out to a person, for example.
So a lot of times we work through thatto find other little strategies that
sometimes when you're overwhelmed,you can't even see that these
other options are available to you.
The other thing that I do aswell, because I am so connected.
(40:20):
To different people.
If, for example, you and I are chattingand you have some availability and I
talk with someone and they're alignedmore to some of the struggles that
you're doing, I will connect people.
Because another thingis the trust and safety.
So if I'm referring or I'm makingthe connection, then it also
(40:40):
fosters this automatic communitybecause we're communing through
someone that I know or they know.
So I also think that'sanother thing that helps.
with connections to where othersmay not feel comfortable at
that point in time to do so.
Oh, I love that connection teamsbecause we got to support each other.
(41:01):
Yeah.
And I think when, again, I thinksome of this is not like, Oh, it's
just like they say rocket scienceor anything, but we know when people
are overwhelmed and we know how thebrain and body works, it shuts down.
It's like safety mode.
I can't think.
I can't think beyond myself.
I don't have it right in front of me.
And I think that's our, Our opportunityto just help individuals be more
(41:24):
curious and kind of think a little bitbroader that then opens up the ideas.
And a lot of it is co creation, right?
Like I have a thought, you havea thought, and then we get to
something that feels good to youand then we move forward with it.
Yeah.
And, uh, I do, I love the two C's.
Uh, and so I have two, three groupsof girlfriends that on WhatsApp
(41:50):
and Most often when someone'sgoing through something, the
first question before you're doneis, does anybody have capacity?
Yes.
And I, when I learnedthat, I was like, okay,
it's huge.
(42:14):
I am speechless.
It was just like, itwas like, oh wow, okay.
You know, and especially if you havelittle groups of people or friends for
the WhatsApp group, it's like, if there'sfive in the group, you know, two will
reply, which is great, then you can takeit, and then you can process with them.
(42:35):
Ah, so good.
I love what you, I just want toadd to that too, I think the other
thing that it does that's beautiful,when we start using that language.
We know that many people feel like theyhave to respond or they're, you know,
that, um, that if they don't respond,then something's going to be wrong.
When we start using that language,you actually give people the
(42:57):
invitation, right, to opt out.
And so that's the other thing Ithink is helpful is like, Hey, if I
start with, do you have the capacity?
Then I'm honoring both of us.
I'm actually supporting the boundaries ofboth people and it helps us then start to
shift our expectations of people feelingas though they have to respond or, um,
(43:19):
Uh, the other flip side is then notactually sharing because then they think
they're going to be a burden if we're allusing that language, then it's like, Hey,
you're not being a burden because somebodyin the group probably has capacity.
Right.
So it's these, it's these smalllittle shifts that actually help all
of us feel more comfortable gettingthe support that we need, you know,
(43:41):
without the expectation that we alwayshave to be that person for somebody.
Yeah.
And, and
one of One of my thing that I strugglewith is you see these memes that people
put out there and goes, I'm sorry,I didn't respond to you for two days
(44:04):
or a week because I'm, I'm too busy.
I can't do it.
And with me, one of my
values or intention is that communityis so important because we need people.
We cannot live this life alone, right?
But then when I see memes like that, that.
(44:25):
It that it's okay not to respond.
I'm like, then we're notbeing there for each other.
But I, but I love what you say is thatif we start with do you have capacity.
And the other person responds,I'm sorry, I don't right now, it's
the responding that's important.
Yes.
(44:47):
Because we're not leaving the otherperson hanging, we're not leaving
the other person and the other sidefeeling, do they not care about me?
What is going on?
Why are they not responding to my text?
Even starting off with, Hey,I need to share something.
Do you have the capacity?
And the other person responding goes,No, then you can go somewhere else.
(45:10):
Or even a WhatsApp use thumbs, right?
Like some of it is like, Oh, I don'thave time to say, okay, we've got, we
can come up with our own language, right?
Like, I mean, that's how we allhave language now is somebody
decided symbols and signs.
And right.
So maybe it's a thumbs up.
Like, Hey, who has capacity?
Thumbs up, thumbs down.
It's really quick.
And the other part that I think thatyou added to that I think is important.
(45:33):
Is it's helping each other havemore comfort to break out of these
constructs that don't serve us.
You know?
So when I look at someone who'slike, I'm sorry, it took two weeks.
Part of that was probably feeling bad ofnot having the time, trying to get through
all of whatever's going on to respondtwo weeks later versus feeling they could
(45:56):
be proactive and say, you know what, I'mgoing to be off the grid for a month.
I don't have the capacity or energy.
I can't serve.
Right?
Because that's, that's reallywhat a lot of times happens.
We, I've even had that where I'm like, Oh,I meant to respond, life was happening.
We know that's going to happen.
However, if I feel more comfortable beingproactive and I don't feel that then I'm
(46:21):
not supporting someone because I justwant to, I want to try to fit it in.
I also think that's where thesociety is starting to do this.
So if I say, I mean, I've had peoplewho apologize for not responding
to a text within hours with me.
And I've had to support and say, you knowwhat, if it was urgent, I would have said
(46:41):
urgent in the message, or I would havecalled you, I am not expecting a text
message to become an instant message.
Right.
You have a life.
We have different jobs that wedo as me as an entrepreneur.
I might have more, we'resoulpreneur entrepreneur, right?
Like have more flex.
If I were, if I send you a message at 10and I know you work a job where you're
(47:03):
probably in 15 meetings, I'm actuallysharing it because I need to get it.
I don't want to forget.
Right.
But I think this is again withcommunication I've even had with
some of the people close to me.
Don't apologize for notinstantly responding to me.
I appreciate that you value meand wanting to get back to me.
That is a condition behavior that I knowhappens, especially in corporate, right?
(47:28):
Every time I pinged you, it'slike, I'm sorry, but I still
have a job to do, right?
I just wanted to add that too of like,In our safe spaces, how can we start
having more communication about thesethings that feel disruptive or activating?
I don't quite like to use triggering,but the same thing, activating, that
(47:49):
is now creating spaces where I shouldbe able to be free and tell Patricia,
like, I love you girl, but for thenext two weeks, I just can't do it.
And Patricia's saying, I get it.
Thank you for sharing that with me.
Is it okay if I check in with you?
Right?
Like these are the things that aren'thappening because social media has
had people at other situations, butparticularly social media to your point
(48:11):
is almost disconnecting people fromthe essence of human connection and
is becoming awkward for individualsto share how they're feeling, what's
going on, where they have capacityor not capable of providing support.
I know I went on a little tangent there.
So thank you for that.
But, um, it's just, it's, it'ssomething I see often as well.
(48:33):
So thank you for that.
Yeah.
And that is that, that differencebetween not responding and feeling
bad about not responding and
which I love this conversation we'rehaving, because then we can get everybody
to, to get on board with somebody texts,somebody needs something and you can
(48:59):
say, I'll get back to you tomorrow,or I don't have capacity for you right
now, please reach out to somebody else.
Then I think we can communicatewith each other much better.
And also the expectations, theexpectations are huge, are huge.
And I think it's people like us whorecognize, I think, you know, one of the
(49:22):
things I've realized about my work is.
Part of it is being the modelof something different, right?
Like some of us I feel have to belike, you know what, we're gonna be
a bit of the change we want to see.
Because I also recognize that many timesindividuals aren't doing that, is because
there has been something before thenthat They've been negatively, there's
(49:44):
been negative consequences for it.
Right.
So I think the other part is us gettingcomfortable with the understanding
and context between things.
And I think that's, again, thehuman connection, the communication,
that even exchange from a trustperspective that says, you know what?
I've gotten into that habitbecause it could be work.
I've gotten into that habit becauseeven if I respond and say, I
(50:07):
can't, my boss then knows that I'mavailable and picks up the phone.
Right?
Cause I've, I know people whohave, so we know that it's like,
ah, but this is different becauseI know Patricia won't do that.
So we actually helpingpeople say this, not that.
Because as we know, when we're stressed,it just makes the rule for everything.
(50:28):
Everything becomes an absolute.
And then we forget that we candistinguish between these things.
So I think that's where I know I'vetried to support and help too, of
like, where's that coming from?
And you're like, Oh, but thisisn't this person, right?
Same in my own life where I'm like,ha, I tried to do a blanket situation.
Actually, like I said,Patricia is not like that.
(50:48):
Okay.
I need to remember that.
I know that this is a safe place.
I know I can tell her I'm not available.
I know that she's goingto comfort and support me.
So I need to be mindful of those people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Love this.
I really want you to share aboutyour upcoming retreats, , I saw
(51:14):
that and I'm just like, I wish Ican go, I wish you could go too.
Maybe there's some creationshipin the future, you know?
Um, yeah.
So I have, so one thing we didn'tget a chance to talk as distinctly
about, but I am shifting into more.
Cause.
Just like, well, kind of what we weretalking about in that same through line,
(51:34):
community and connection is so important.
So a lot of my work initiallywas one on one, which is that
community connection between one.
It really became clear of howmuch community and physical
community I think we need.
I think between the COVID things and,you know, people are still looking for
those deep, safe, enriching spaces.
So I've shifted heavily into.
(51:55):
Group retreats, but they're small andintimate no more than say 15 people
at any of my retreats so that it doesfeel safe and intimate And so I have
two retreats coming up one in november.
That is a release your grief retreatIt is a combination of working through
releasing and expressing your griefhaving a safe space again To be able
(52:16):
to talk about your grief Freely, butalso some tools, somatic body work to
help you release those things, right?
To get back in balance, butit also includes self care.
So it's at a resort so that youcan do health and wellness classes.
There's a facial or massage because manytimes too, and we're going through that.
(52:36):
We're not always takingcare of ourselves, right?
We're not necessarily giving ourselvesjust the, the calm and peace and love
to ourselves through those processes.
And it's for all individualswho've experienced loss.
So that's another thing from acommunity, though you may not be able
to directly relate to someone who'slost a loved one, but the feelings
of loss and grief are still there.
(52:57):
Similar.
And so having those conversationswith others that can also hold
and support you are important.
That's November 21st through 24th.
It's in, um, Arizona carefree, Arizona.
So be carefree in yourreleasing your grief.
Uh, and then my other isDecember 17th through 22nd and
(53:19):
Costa Rica at Emilio Institute.
And that is for receiving.
It's a receive retreat for women of color.
And so each day is about receivingelements and not focusing on giving,
but being comfortable with receiving,receiving more love, more clarity, more
joy and growth and abundance in your life.
(53:40):
So those are my two for this year.
And then all my retreats areavailable on my website for this 2025.
Um, the one thing I will share is, Eachretreat is unique and different based on
situation or circumstance or individuals.
So I do have retreatsthat are not just BIPOC.
I do have retreats thataren't just about grieving.
There's retreats around being anempath, about disconnecting from all the
(54:04):
detoxing, from all the digital stuff.
Um, so yeah, so I just wanted to sharethat too, cause sometimes I get those
questions, I started with women of colorand it's evolved, so it's just based
on theme and experiences for people.
They sound fabulous.
Yay!
I'm, um, I, I'm curious.
(54:26):
With planning a retreat, becauseoftentimes we don't see the hard
work that goes into it, right?
Yes.
Like, especially like, you know,being an entrepreneur, people
think, Oh, she's so great.
She's doing so well.
But behind the scenes thing,nobody ever talk about.
Yes.
(54:47):
Would you share maybethree to five things that.
We don't know as me looking at yougoing goes throwing retreats look
at her she's doing so well, but thenyou're thinking I had girl I did a
lot of hard work behind the scenes.
Yes.
Yeah.
(55:07):
So particularly retreats.
I mean, there are a lot of things.
I think one of the biggest things toois when you're thinking about your say
is your first retreat, particularly forme, I was looking at what did I need?
Right.
What, so I, I looked at like,what were some of the experiences
I had that were challenging?
(55:28):
Could I create what I needed for others?
And what I think that helps, it helpsyou start to think about who would be
the people in that experience, right?
Like what would that come out to be?
And then there's aalignment to the meaning.
What I sometimes find is folks are like,Oh, I want to do, say it's a yoga retreat.
And there isn't necessarily theconnection to you that creates the
(55:50):
passion, the flow, really thinkingabout who will be part of that.
And you don't necessarilyhave to have a large audience.
It is the connection though, to that.
So being thoughtful of what youwant to create and how it aligns to
you, your mission, your passion, oreven a pain point or gap that you
see is not happening in the world.
(56:11):
The other is, you know, thingsaround thinking about your venues.
Each venue is different in theamount of what they can offer as
the holistic offering, the cost,investment, all of those things.
And so thinking about evenfinancially what you have, what your
plan is, most of the time, six toeight months of planning is ideal.
(56:33):
So it gives you some runway.
Now, if you have already a largercommunity and people are like, I'm
ready to sign up yesterday and you'rejust putting it together, but mostly
you want to give yourself that timeto think through, um, connecting with
people, but also the overall planning.
Uh, I think the other thing for me.
That I'm realizing is I will morethan likely need support from a
(56:56):
virtual assistant perspective.
So because I'm comfortable with treats andthe planning, I'm very high touch though.
So this is another thing.
If you're more of things being automatedin your process, or if you're one
who's talking with each individual,I'm one who talks with each individual.
So what I've realized, if I'm goingto keep that high touch experience,
(57:16):
I'm going to need more support onthe back end, so I can keep up with
all the conversations I'm having.
Um, and then just one of the thingsI have realized too, is It's the,
it's the coordination of everything.
So I'm having multiple retreats.
Those are multiple marketing messages.
Those are different target audiences.
(57:39):
Those are different follow ups.
So I invite someone when you're startingto perhaps, unless you are similar to me,
where you can just kind of pivot, startingsomewhere where you feel greater comfort.
Um, and you're laser focusedon that particular retreat.
I started expanding mine once Igot the one down and I kind of have
(58:01):
my weld oil machine of how I wanteverything Like laid out the last thing
actually that I will say too Is makingsure that it's not just the cost of
the accommodations and activities.
Think of all the other thingsthat you might want to include.
Thinking about what your flight maycost, insurance, are you providing
(58:23):
gifts, you know, are there other trinketsand things that you want to include.
Many times when individuals arebudgeting, they're only thinking
about accommodations and food.
For their guests and not all theother things to ensure they're
taking care of financially as well.
And then any other things theywould want to extend to their
guests, either pre or post retreat.
(58:47):
Lots of work going.
Yeah.
Lots of work.
Go for it.
Yes.
And then, I mean, the followup and thingsof that nature, but I think when I was
trying to think of like maybe three orfour things, but yeah, starting with
something that you're passionate about.
And, and I will say too, your passionhelps people connect to their passion.
(59:07):
You know, and again, that's why Isay something that maybe people don't
even realize that they need, or you'reseeing a gap, I felt the receive.
And I thought about just women ingeneral, end up being women of color.
But I was like, man, we have a hard timereceiving without something in return.
And then I just started with that.
And, and ladies were like, Oh my God.
(59:29):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I need some of that,or even some resistance.
Like, I don't know if I'm ready and,you know, and then talking through it.
So I think that's the other pieces.
It's not a one and done if you want tohave these more intimate spaces, you know,
again, it depends on what type of retreat,but it's recognizing you're in connection
(59:49):
and community all the way through.
And, you know, with my retreats,there's connection after the retreat.
So this is not just an event,it is creating community and
connection and experiences.
So that's something to be mindful as well.
Are you planning to continue someconnection with the individuals
that are coming to your retreatsor is it more just an event?
(01:00:10):
And that is a very different experienceand a different planning process as well.
Oh, connection.
I said, always go for connection.
Yep.
Usually the last question of the podcastis, Any advice for the listeners,
but for you, I would love to hear,
(01:00:34):
because we talk about belief, you know,for you, when, with this life, when people
talk about you at the end of your life,what do you want them to say about it?
Nichole helped me feel seen,heard, loved, and healed.
(01:00:56):
That's it.
So every day.
Someone asked me one time, like,what does success look like for you?
If I've done that for one personevery day, I've done my job.
Beautiful.
Thank you, Nichole.
Thank you so much, Patricia.
(01:01:16):
I can't wait to stay connected incommunity and connection with you.
Oh, I'm so, I'm so grateful.
And this just for, before we closefor anyone, this is why things.
Like I've so enjoyed appreciate podcastsbecause it's, it's great to do the
podcast or the people you meet that youwouldn't necessarily meet, um, is the
(01:01:37):
other part of community and connection.
So maybe that's something tofind a podcast that you love.
Maybe reach out to the person and share,and that may start to be your community
because you have that in common.
So I would say with anyone who'swants to connect with me, I know the
socials and things will be available,but you can always set up a call.
Send me a DM.
(01:01:58):
I answer all my DMS.
It's me.
It's not someone else, a bot onbehalf, but yeah, let's start
more community and connection.
You can start with, with me.
So if I can be that for you, Iwould love to be that for you.
I love that.
Thank you.
(01:02:18):
Hmm, I love this conversationwith Nichole and.
It.
Brings to mind.
Question I asked Nichole
. At the end of your life, how do you want to be remembered?
I want to be remembered.
For my kindness and.
(01:02:40):
The love that.
I can.
Give people.
And.
If I only meet a difference inone person's life, this lifetime.
Then.
I've done my job.
(01:03:00):
So as I leave you this week.
Here's an invitation to think abouthow do you want to be remembered?
When you leave this earth.
Be gentle with yourself.
Be good with yourselfand please check out.
Nichole's website and retreats.
(01:03:22):
I was shared the link In the show notes.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
(01:03:44):
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
Hi, everyone.
I hope you're doing well while cometo conversations with your Chinese.
Auntie podcast.
YiYi I am your host, Patricia Petersen.
In this podcast, I have conversationswith BIPOC folks about life.
. If you enjoy this podcast,please, can you please share the
(00:25):
podcast with your friends, like,and subscribe to this podcast?
It is available on most podcastchannels like apple and Spotify.
. . In this episode.
I welcome Nichole Lee.
(00:45):
Nichole is an internationally recognizedtrauma informed multi disciplinary healer.
Intuitive guide spiritual teacher.
Speaker.
Wellbeing educator retreat,host and podcast host offering a
sanctuary for healing and growth.
We had a great conversation.
(01:07):
The topics range from grief.
To community sense of belonging.
And she shared her upcoming retreats.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
. Hello, Nichole.
(01:27):
Hi, Patricia.
How are you today?
I am great.
It's a rainy day in Vancouver where Ilive and yeah, I'm excited to have you on.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Please introduce yourself, what youdo, where you're from, your lineage.
(01:52):
Sure.
So I am Nichole Lee.
I serve as a trauma informedmultidisciplinary healer, intuitive guide.
Well being educator, spiritual coach,retreat leader, and a podcast host.
And I mostly support individuals whoare feeling stuck or unfulfilled.
Um, many times it's tied to somelife transition and wanting some
(02:15):
support to really create a moreauthentic and fulfilling life.
So that's the work I do.
I do that individually and asin group, in group settings.
Um, I currently live in Atlanta,but I spend part of my time in L.
A.
I'm in the process of moving back to L.
A., to La La Land.
Uh, lived there prior to Atlanta.
And it's interesting that you asked,and I'm originally from Detroit.
(02:38):
The interesting, I love that you askedabout origin because Trisha, I didn't know
a lot about my origin outside of beingin the U S I knew I was a black woman.
Um, however, I ended updoing, uh, my ancestry.
com African ancestry.
com recently and received the resultslast August, this past August.
(03:02):
And I didn't realize how much it would.
shift me emotionally in my identity.
So as someone who is from the States,did not have as much background and
rooting, um, just knowing the origin onmy, my mother's side and my mother passed
away six years as of yesterday, um, itreally gave me a sense of connection
(03:24):
to Africa, um, to know those things.
So I appreciate that you asked that,but knowing that I'm from From,
you know, areas such as Liberiaand Sierra Leone and Senegal.
Um, it just really shifted things for me.
Uh, I used to say as a little light fairskinned black girl who was told that
(03:45):
she wasn't black enough many times inmy life, it felt so good to have the
evidence of my lineage and background.
So.
I just thank you for asking that.
Cause I didn't realize how much of aemotional response I would have to it.
Like I knew I'd be excited.
(04:06):
Right.
In the Guinea Bissau too.
I think that's how you describeit to, um, pronounce it.
That's another one of my origins.
But when I got it, Iliterally felt it in my body.
I was like, wow, I know where I'm from.
Um, and so, yeah, so that's, that's,that's a little bit about me and
just something recently that has.
(04:26):
It's shifted how I see myselfand how I show up in the world.
So thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.
I am curious when you say you'vefelt it in your body, was it
like a sense of belonging?
Yes, it was a deeper sense of belonging.
So I think, um, as many individualssuch as myself, and it's actually
(04:47):
why I'm hosting a retreat in SouthAfrica next year, um, You are proud
of your background, your ethnicity.
However, in certain spaces, particularlyalso when I, when it comes to what we
typically identify, um, sometimes in what.
(05:09):
Blackness and African roots,the importance of that, right?
And understanding where you are fromas someone who did not have that.
I did feel like I belonged.
I felt like I had more language.
I felt like I had extended family.
So for example, Me knowing that partof my roots was tied to Liberia.
(05:30):
I have friends that are firstgeneration American that were Liberian.
When they found out they were sendingme, I was like from the Pele tribe.
One of my friend's father'sis from that tribe.
So he was like, welcome sister.
Right.
And started sharing videosand, you know, music.
And it just created this, this.
(05:53):
Beyond the belonging,but like family, right?
Like I literally felt like people whowere in my life were truly family, like
our roots were from the same place.
So I think that just in the, um,not just the book and the belonging,
but like a depth of it, right?
Like actually visualizing, seeing thatlineage or imagining how I was from
(06:15):
that tribe and how even we're similarin age and how we could have really
just expanded kind of in that same.
Lineage and journey.
So yes, for sure.
Uh, it, it was just avery warming feeling.
There was a different level of pride.
There's a different with, with manythings that we discover with that identity
(06:36):
going into certain spaces and places.
I've started researching music.
I've been listening to more, um,artists from those areas, right.
And really feeling in tune.
So I think the other thing isI felt more in tune, like even
with myself, there's things that.
Beats and songs and things that I alreadywere so connected to or how I danced.
(06:59):
I used to go to things, um, Patricia,like I go to an event and people would
actually ask me where I was from.
And they'd be like, you can't justbe from the U S like the way you
dance, the way you move, right.
And I'd be like, It made me feel good, butI'm like, huh, it's in my roots, right?
It's in my DNA that these thingsthat I might not have been exposed
(07:20):
to were actually part of me.
So it was so deep and rich,uh, from that perspective.
And it has opened my eyes todesire to learn and know more
and to connect at a deeper level.
So yes.
For sure.
Yeah.
And, and that's so healing.
You know, I, in, I work with in mywork as a therapist, as a counselor,
(07:43):
most of my clients are women of color.
And when appropriate, I dobring up ancestral healing.
I find knowing that part, the lineages,can be so healing and can help with our
healing journey, even understanding andeating what our ancestors used to eat.
(08:05):
Yes, I started looking at that.
I was like, huh.
To your point, yes.
I didn't mean to interruptyou, but I'm just nodding.
I'm like, yes, for sure.
The healing part is so key.
It's so, that's just so spot on.
I'm going to ask you a veryignorant question on my part.
(08:27):
Is your last name the original last name?
Because for me, L E E is an Asianlast name in my knowledge, right?
So, and I'm asking that becausemy maiden was changed when my
grandfather went to get his passport.
(08:49):
So, I'm curious, is your last name Lee?
It is.
Yeah, it is Lee and it is American.
I mean, you think there's General Lee.
I mean, there are.
Right.
There are Americanswith the last name Lee.
Um, and I have not gone backto really connect to how far
(09:11):
back, you know, it really sits.
And it could have been somethingfrom, from a colonization, right.
That we took on that last name, butmy grandfather's last name is Lee.
My great grandfather, William Lee,like, So it's very far in our lineage,
but we, as you know, many times weinherited, you know, especially as slaves
inherited sometimes the master's lastname or, um, was giving a new name.
(09:36):
But yes, as far as just my experienceliving in the lead last name.
And it is interesting that you saythat because even, um, So I was
in business management consulting,which means, you know, I work with
different companies and industries asa consultant and it always threw people
off when they would see Nichole Lee.
(09:58):
And, you know, now we have videoand, you know, LinkedIn, we have
pictures, but I remember, forexample, I was coordinating an event.
For something we were doing inShanghai, worked on global projects.
And I had been communicatingback and forth with the
ladies there and everything.
And I remember the first time comingup the escalator at the hotel.
(10:18):
And I was like, asking, I forgot thelady's name, but I was asking for
the person I had been working with.
And you should have seen her.
It was like,
I just thought you were going.
I was like, I know ithappens all the time.
And then I was on aproject with a young lady.
(10:39):
Um.
Her name was Noel Cole.
She had a French last name and thenwith my Asian last name, but she was
of Asian descent and French descent.
They get us confused because they justfigured I'd probably have the French
last name and, you know, she'd have Lee.
So, um, it's, it's something that'sbeen very common my entire life.
(11:00):
I go places and I send my, you know,my ID people think I'm married.
That's my married name.
So it's very common.
It's been common my entire life.
Does it, does it bother you at all?
Not at all.
It has not, it has never bothered me.
I, um, I've always found it interestingand, and kind of fun and cool.
(11:21):
You know, like I say, even withmy colleague, we used to be
like, guess who's, you know,guess who's who, you know?
Um, and then when I realizedjust, just like you say, typically
the origin of that last name.
It, for me, it was like, why would I getupset when typically that is the origin?
Like if you asked.
A significant amount of people,they would more than likely
(11:42):
think it was an Asian last night.
You know what I'm saying?
It's not like it was just thisodd thing where people, um,
were being difficult or rude.
It's just basically kind oftypically how we understood it.
But yeah, it never bothered me.
I thought it was cool.
And I love that my name was so short.
It's so easy.
What's funny too, Patricia, is many peoplewill actually think my name is Nichole.
(12:07):
So I, I went to school withsomeone, her name was Shawn Lee.
So people would be like, Nichole Lee?
And I'm like, no, it's Nichole Lee.
So it looks like it would be like,Nichole Lee something, right?
Nichole Peterson orsomething, like, you know?
So that was the other thing,so I'm like, it's Nichole.
Lee.
(12:28):
Now, the other thing I will saythough, the H saves me a bit because
without the H is even more challenging.
So my H gives me a little bit ofuniqueness with my name spell N I C H
O L E, but it does make it challengingfrom a business perspective because, so
I started adding my L because look howmany Nichole Lees there are in the world.
(12:50):
It's a very common name.
So my parents didn't quitethink about that, uh, as much.
So I use a lot of times I'll use mymiddle initial now, especially as I become
an entrepreneur, just to differentiateor distinguish me from other Nicholes.
That's true.
I, I didn't even think about howmany Nicholes there are out there.
(13:13):
Oh my gosh, you know, it's,yeah, so, yeah, but that
hasn't, it never bothered me.
I thought it was pretty cool.
I think it was because probably too,like I say, before pictures and finding
people on social media, it was a way forme to be like, hi, you thought I might
be different, might look different.
Surprise.
(13:35):
Yeah, I get, I get that the, theassumption people make, because
when I took on my husband's,Peterson is my husband's last name.
Okay.
And before people, They meet me, theywill be like, Oh, she must be British.
So yeah, I think they meet me.
They're like, okay, all right.
(13:56):
That's fine.
Um, and I think that's the beautyof now the world we live in.
You can't make those assumptions, right?
We never know it could be the rootname, married name, change name.
So it is kind of fun when youreally start to just look at it
from a curiosity perspective.
So I appreciate you asking the question.
Thank you.
Uh, Just a side note, Iwas in Atlanta in December.
(14:23):
I wish I'd met you before that.
Yeah, would have been great to connect.
I know the, but I, one of theepisodes, I was talking to one of
my girlfriends who was also there.
I was, I was there to do a training.
And oh my God, the airport.
That was an experience on its own.
(14:43):
I did not realize howbusy the airport was.
But I love Atlanta.
I think it's the busiestin America, I think.
If it's not, then it's like the second.
Yeah.
Yeah, one of the uh, uh, the otherwomen in the group from Atlanta,
she said it is the busiest.
Yeah, I think it's the number one.
Yeah.
But what a great, whata great place, Atlanta.
(15:05):
The energy and the culture.
That was great.
That's awesome.
I'm so glad you had a good time.
I did, I did.
I would love to hear about your journey.
Whatever stands up for you, careerand even childhood, significant
things that brought you to this point.
(15:25):
Yeah, I would say the most significantthing that's brought me to this
point in me becoming a soulpreneur.
So not solo, cause many peoplethink I'm saying solo soul.
Um, Is that I believe my divineassignment, my soul was to do the
work that I'm currently doing.
So I will back up prior to that.
(15:46):
The real shift was my mother wasdiagnosed with cancer May of 2018,
and she died September 22nd of 2018.
And so, I took care of my mother duringthat time, and I'm so grateful that I
had that opportunity, that I was employedand had the luxury, right, we know that's
a luxury and a privilege, to be ableto take care of Take care of my mother,
(16:12):
um, take off work and not worry aboutfinancials and being able to do that.
I am very grateful for, for that.
And through taking care of my mother, itbecame very apparent to me, particularly
from a Western medicine perspective,That we do not look at the whole person.
(16:33):
We are heavy on surgeries andpharmaceuticals, uh, heavy on just
creating the kind of the systematicapproach from mother had cancer, right?
Like, Oh, this is what we do.
We cut it out.
We go to these types of therapies, chemoor radiation and hope for the best.
Right.
Like, so that part wasvery alarming to me.
(16:54):
I knew people who had been diagnosed.
I knew other friends and family, butit's different when it's your parent.
Right.
And it just wakes you up around that.
And the reason why I shared that, um,Patricia is because, My obsession now
with like nutrition and energy andlooking at the whole part of a person was
(17:16):
amplified with my mother becoming ill.
So me starting to do logs and search onwhat foods are healing foods, what foods
help with edema, what are cancer fightingfoods, all these types of things that,
You know, you kind of pass by and knowfor health and nutrition, but the depth
of it was really at that point in time.
(17:37):
Um, I took my mom to see a Reiki healer.
I knew of Reiki before I had some work,um, done, but it was again, more of a
surface level, but the impact that ithad on her and calming her body and
the peace is part of the reason whyI now am a Reiki master, for example.
Um, I became a health coachsoon after my mother died.
(17:59):
As example, I became certified inhealth coaching because I wanted
to understand the whole person.
Uh, my journey with spiritualismshifted as a result, why I do that work.
So she really was the, thatexperience was the catalyst or
the activation into what I do now.
Um, The other part of it though,is with my mother passing.
(18:21):
And now what I know about grief and theshift of your life and all these types
of things, I started questioning my life.
You know, I really started questioningwhat am I doing with my life?
If I was on my dying bed, wouldI be pleased with the life that
I've lived and how I've served?
Was I authentic?
Because I looked at the peoplethat knew my mother and the con
(18:41):
the, the through line of her.
boldness and courage and differentattributes about her with people.
She worked at the samecompany for 37 years.
So to see people who knew her atdifferent stages in the common thread
about who she was, had me thinking tomyself, like how consistent or what
(19:01):
does that messaging look like for me?
And so that took me down a wholepath of saying, you know, I've
been living other people's lives.
I've been following what's a traditionalprotocol for your life, being educated,
you get a good job, you have a 401k,you know, you make more than the average
person, you travel, like all the thingsthat are supposed to be fulfilling.
(19:25):
But when I look, I was, I had momentsof happiness, but I was not fulfilled.
And so I had gone throughthat self discovery journey.
I'd become certifiedin several modalities.
I mean, hypnotherapy, um, energyhealing, all of these things.
And then through depths of meditation,Patricia, what really happened,
what really truly had me take theleap, is my mother came to me in
(19:48):
a meditation and told me to quit.
In the midst of COVID in 2020, and therewas something in me that there was no
question I had to do it because peopleare like, how did you rationalize?
I just felt and knewthat's what I had to do.
So I left my 20 year career behind.
(20:10):
I went on a 20, a self discovery journey,started kind of putting it out there.
It was a life and healthcoach and just went on this
experimental journey for some time.
That then led me to where I amnow and very clear on how I serve.
So.
I thank my mother.
I say my mother's death was myrebirth that you can have grief and
(20:32):
gratitude, but I am very grateful forthe gift that she gave me for me to
live in purpose on purpose and doingfulfilling work every single day.
Will you share your mother's name?
Vicky Lee.
So that's the thing that was funny too.
Can you imagine calling the housewith two people who sound just alike?
(20:56):
Because if I sent you a voice noteof my mother, people, Vicky, Nikki,
and then the Icky sounding thesame, so you still didn't get it.
And then they try to shorten it and say,Vic, Nick, it still sounds the same.
So it had to be the older oneversus the younger one because
otherwise, but we look alike.
We sound alike.
We have very similar mannerisms.
(21:17):
She was my best friend, butyes, good old Vickie Lee.
Let's name Vickie Lee.
Well, ancestor.
Yes.
What?
What was?
Your mom's common thread, common theme.
As far as, well, particularly withher personality, and this is what had
(21:40):
me reflecting on my life, My motherwas authentically her and she did
not live by anybody's expectations.
Um, she was in my eyes, very fearlessand though we have our own fear, but like
the, I would say, I'll take that back.
It was more of the courageous.
So my mother was very unconventional,um, in the way she thought, the way she
(22:03):
showed up, particularly in the traditionalaspects of what a mother should be in the
eighties, seventies, eighties, nineties.
And so that was the common threadjust to, for anyone listening to
visualize my mother had a blueCamaro with white leather seats.
Okay.
And my mother wore leggings and highheels and bright colors and she had
(22:26):
big black hair, even to the end.
Okay.
So you could just imagine,and this is a woman who, as
she had a job, she worked at.
healthcare company.
But again, what that was supposed,the individuals who dress like that,
or she'll wear bright pink lipstick,the perception of what that was to
be, to be a wonderful mother or, youknow, that type of thing, she was just
(22:50):
unconventional and she didn't care.
And when I look at my life, Iwas like, wow, why do I care so
much what people think of me?
And I remember my mother alwayssaying that she was like, you care
so much what people think, you know?
Um, and so that, that was acommon thread and she was funny.
Uh, she loved to dance.
(23:11):
She loved to eat.
I get that from her.
We are some seriousfoodies, uh, love shoes.
We had that in clothes.
But yeah, with that, I think that wasa common thing, like that, that big
old beautiful smile, that big hair and,and, um, her, her fun personality, but
really the unconventional, courageousto live her own life all the way to the
(23:34):
end, to the point that my mother, youknow, when she was diagnosed, and this
is very uncomfortable for many people,but my mother decided she wanted to die.
That was hard for me to take in at thetime, but when I reflect and it brings
tears of my eyes out of gratitudeof like, if I'm going to live this
life, I'm going to do it on my terms.
(23:56):
And if I can't be the person I was.
If I can't be vibrant, if I can't befun, if I can't hang out, if I can't
do that, then it's my time to go.
And I share that because that's difficultfor many people who are taking care
of someone and they want them to livebecause they don't want them to leave.
(24:18):
But it has me, had me reallythinking about the importance
of living life on your terms.
And that is exactly what she did.
And I know she stayed alittle bit longer for me.
Um, but yeah, she even did it on herown terms all the way to the end.
(24:40):
We agreed when she wasgoing to go into hospice
and we counted down the days together
until she went into a coma.
And now I cry mostly, um, ifanyone's listening to this, I cry
(25:04):
more of the, again, the gratitudeof finding the meaning and the
messages in the experience.
It's less about the sadness and the,the feeling of gratitude that has been
extended to me to look at life deeper,to see, to not let things pass me by,
(25:29):
but to see the power of being presentand really allowing that to, um, to
fill my body up, um, in a way thatI had not experienced before this.
Thank you for sharing that.
(25:51):
Thank you.
I love what you share about your mom.
I'll share a bit about, the common theme.
A few years ago.
Well, maybe 10 years ago, Oprah cameto Vancouver and I went to watch
her and she talked about the commontheme, the common thread in your life.
(26:12):
And, um, when my dad died.
I always knew he was agood guy, but he was kind.
He was fun, but I didn't know the extentof his kindness until his during his wake.
(26:33):
This older man came,he must be in his 80s.
And he came during the day.
So in Singapore, where my parents lived,if you're Buddhist, the wake is either
three to five days, and it's outside.
This older man came probably earlyeighties and he was just like,
I'm just coming to pay my respect.
He was very, sweet.
(26:53):
And I'm just like, wouldyou like something to eat?
Is there anything I can get for you?
He said, no, no, no, no.
Your father was the kindest man.
He said one time he didn'thave any money for coffee.
My dad pulled out the last few dollars.
In his wallet to give to this man.
Wow, that's beautiful.
(27:17):
. I'm curious.
You were able to look at thispainful experience of losing
your mother and said to yourself,okay, something needs to shift.
I need to change my life.
What gave you the strength to do?
Because Someone else might justgo, Nope, too hard, not gonna do.
(27:40):
But for the listeners, I'm curious,were there a few things that helped
you to go, you know what, the lifeI'm living now is not working anymore?
Yeah, I would say one of thegreatest gifts that I also have
realized has been a privilege andluxury, um, is that I had support.
(28:02):
I had, I have an amazing father, anamazing father, um, who was there for
me, who allowed me the opportunityto ebb and flow in my emotions.
Um, my father's always been anamazing person where I never
had to filter what I felt.
(28:24):
And I think that was really important.
Even things of suicidal ideation, youknow, a lot of people can't, don't feel
they can go to the people closest to them.
And divulge that type of information.
I could do that with my father.
I could share with him and hewalked me through those moments.
Right.
I had an amazing partner.
(28:47):
Um, we are no longer together,but he's an amazing human being.
We met months before mymother was diagnosed.
I believe he was a blessingbrought into my life because he
had lost his father to cancer.
So to know someone that you sharewith them, Hey, my mom has cancer.
And though they'll never know howyou feel, but to understand what that
(29:11):
is to have a parent and know kindof the cycles that may transpire,
that was healing for me as well.
Also being able to expressmyself, being able to, again,
go through the ebbs and flows.
I know he was integral to,to my support system as well.
And then I had other, I had friends.
So I recognize that someindividuals don't have that.
(29:36):
And that's where there is astruggle, not feeling safe, seen
or heard within their inner circle.
I did have that.
Um, and so what I would say to someoneand invite someone who does not have that.
I was a crisis textcounselor, for example.
So I had trained to help individualswho are in crisis or did not feel
(29:58):
safe having those conversations.
They have those around the world,you know, seeking out, they're not
always advertised as externallyas they probably should, right.
Cause of the money andall that and marketing.
Um, But seeking out, um, those types oforganizations, because we are trained,
you know, I don't do that now, but wewere trained, we will work through the
(30:21):
sensitivity, being trauma informed,holding space, helping individuals.
So I, I invite individuals to do that.
Um, what I did not take advantage of that.
I think I would now is findinga grief support group that
that really aligned with me.
And it's part of the reasonwhy I'm building one.
Because just knowing thereare other people that say,
(30:44):
wow, I'm feeling that as well.
They don't always have to be technicallyastute or, you know, a counselor or
therapist, but having a community ofindividuals that have that relatability
of experience can help you with that.
Right.
Again, it's a being seen andheard and understood that we
know is typically a challenge.
So I would say that as well.
(31:05):
And then there are obviously likeFacebook groups and things of that
nature, but that was huge for me.
Thank you.
That was, that was huge for me.
Um, and then I think the other piecetoo, as I'm just a naturally, I've
come to realize I'm a person whois, has that resilience in them.
I've had other traumatic experiencesprior to my mother's, um, death
(31:27):
that I just desire to bounce back.
And I, I assume that's probably frommy childhood, but I think some of
us were just kind of born with alittle bit extra resilience in us.
And so I think that'salso what it was, was.
I knew I needed to do something with this.
I could not let mymother's death be in vain.
I could not let my life be in vain.
(31:48):
And so the moments that I was exhausted,the moments that even I'm just like,
why do I have to have this awakeningand go into this new space in my life?
I was constantly reminded of the why.
You know, I don't wantother people to suffer.
I don't want other people to go throughmaybe the pains that I've gone through.
So if I keep going, I also become.
(32:12):
Faith and hope for people.
I also become part of the healingcommunity that I had sometimes outside of
my inner circle had challenges finding.
So those are a few things, but Ithink community and connection are
foundational with any type of shiftthat we make or we have in our life.
(32:33):
And I don't think wetalk about that enough.
And I think after now doing thiswork and I know what the work you
do, a lot of it comes to that.
You know, a lot of it is like, I don'thave the one person that will just listen
to me and not judge me or not have aperspective about my life or an opinion.
And man, you don't realize, again, that'swhy I say luxury and privilege, because
(32:57):
it wasn't until I was going throughthis that I realized how many people
and the work that I do now presently,you know, in this a lot, realizing how
many people feel they don't have that.
Yeah.
Being seen and heard is.
We all want that right and I often, Ilove that you share that there was so
(33:23):
many different parts that helped youbecause oftentimes I'll say to clients
so and this is a lesson I had to learnin my own life too is that we cannot
expect one person to fulfill all of us.
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
(33:43):
Let's just even talkabout girlfriends, right?
Like, I have a close, I, I don'thave many, many friends, but I
have a group of close girlfriends,but one might be good way.
She, one of them, she's good if Ineed someone to, you know, stand
up for myself, stand up for me.
If there's racism involved,she's who I call them.
(34:05):
Another one, she's goodif I need help with.
legal stuff because that's her skill set.
Another one is she's, she'swho I call it if I need some
loving handholding and stuff.
But I think in the Western society,a lot of us think, especially in
relationship to that one person shouldfulfill our needs, be all things.
(34:28):
Yes.
And that's a lot of pressure.
And then if you go with thatmentality, you're going to
be constantly disappointed.
That your friends cannot meetyou where you want to be.
But if you have different peoplethat go, ah, she's good at that.
He's good at that.
I'm going to reach out to do that.
(34:48):
One thing I wonder whetheryou have any input on this.
One thing that some of my clientsdo face is that lack of community
in your experience and also personalexperience and also working with groups.
If someone is having a hard timefinding community, making friends.
(35:13):
Any advice for them?
Yes, and may I backtrack to whatyou were just saying too about
the one size fits all culture.
Like, the person is supposedto be all the things.
Um, what is really powerful and what Idid learn more about too, Particularly
with losing a parent and one of my closefriends, we had to have that conversation
(35:39):
that though they wanted to be therefor me, they had both of their parents.
So there were other people that I had tobe intentionally saying, you know what?
They're going to have therelatability of this again, right?
Very different.
So even conversations of people thatwere closer to me that I would have
been having more conversation with.
Could not serve me the way I neededto based on the circumstance.
(36:03):
And I think that is so powerful thatyou said that because you're right.
A lot of times in the culture, it's likethe person you've known the longest, the
person that you typically talk to everyday, the person that you set expectations
should be there for all of the things.
And this is what really did help me becomemore mindful of where people could support
(36:25):
and then how do I communicate that.
So there's something I sayquite a bit with clients and
friends and even for myself.
I call it the two C's.
Checking to see if someone iscapable of supporting you and
if they have the capacity.
To support you.
(36:45):
So what sometimes happens is Iknow Patricia is highly capable.
She's a therapist.
She knows the things, but Patricia isgoing through a lot and may not have the
capacity to support me the way I needin this moment, then there's Nichole.
Who has all the capacity,maybe she's on vacation, right?
(37:07):
She, she has some time, butnow I'm going to her and she
does not have the capability.
What I need to be said ormaybe education or empowerment.
So again, what is it you're looking for?
And then if someone fit intothose, and sometimes you need
both, I need Patricia to be capableand have the capacity, right?
(37:28):
So that's, what's really helped me.
And it's helped me communicate Sometimeswhen I need to shift, because if
I am talking about trauma informedwork or my job as an entrepreneur,
some of those things can't happenbecause of the shift of who I've
become and who they are in my life.
So I typically use the two C'sbecause usually we can, you know,
(37:49):
we like, ah, and then you might add,you know, so your own, but those
are two that I just wanted to share.
And then the other part thatyou mentioned around community.
And the challenges, I think partof it that I help my clients is
actually becoming more expansivein the way they look at community.
And it also gets to what you weretalking about of how are you defining.
(38:12):
What these relationships look like.
So if community is more of a connectionto someone that say similar, then
you may be changing your expectationsof what you need that actually makes
that easier to create community.
You may have a siloed view.
For example, you may be saying,well, I thought it was in grief.
(38:33):
You may just want anotherwoman who's over 40.
Right.
And though they might not have thegrief experience, just being able to
connect with another woman that is40 plus can help you build community.
So I think that's another one isbecoming more expansive, looking
at all the different elements ofyourself, redefining what connection
(38:54):
and community looks like to you.
And most cases you're able to findone or two people as a result.
The other thing is settingexpectation on engagement.
Right.
Sometimes again, joining a Facebookgroup where you don't necessarily have
to engage, but you're seeing otherpeople's experience can be an element of
(39:14):
community because you at least feel thatyou're not alone, that other people are
experiencing things, but that doesn'tmean you actually have to respond.
You don't have to engage.
It may be just knowing thatyou are not alone in the world.
Right?
So this is what that expansivenessof maybe thinking, giving a different
perspective of what the real need is,because I think that's part of it is
(39:36):
communicating what the need is as well.
It's like, I just want toknow I'm not the only one.
You could do a Google search, right?
And they're like, Oh my gosh, right?
And you find a community.
If you're saying I want to have in depthconversation, I want to talk with someone.
Um, there are groups, for example,you do that and you may see
where other people are engaging.
(39:58):
You may actually even see what theirpersonality types are that can create
a sense of safety and comfort toreach out to a person, for example.
So a lot of times we work through thatto find other little strategies that
sometimes when you're overwhelmed,you can't even see that these
other options are available to you.
The other thing that I do aswell, because I am so connected.
(40:20):
To different people.
If, for example, you and I are chattingand you have some availability and I
talk with someone and they're alignedmore to some of the struggles that
you're doing, I will connect people.
Because another thingis the trust and safety.
So if I'm referring or I'm makingthe connection, then it also
(40:40):
fosters this automatic communitybecause we're communing through
someone that I know or they know.
So I also think that'sanother thing that helps.
with connections to where othersmay not feel comfortable at
that point in time to do so.
Oh, I love that connection teamsbecause we got to support each other.
(41:01):
Yeah.
And I think when, again, I thinksome of this is not like, Oh, it's
just like they say rocket scienceor anything, but we know when people
are overwhelmed and we know how thebrain and body works, it shuts down.
It's like safety mode.
I can't think.
I can't think beyond myself.
I don't have it right in front of me.
And I think that's our, Our opportunityto just help individuals be more
(41:24):
curious and kind of think a little bitbroader that then opens up the ideas.
And a lot of it is co creation, right?
Like I have a thought, you havea thought, and then we get to
something that feels good to youand then we move forward with it.
Yeah.
And, uh, I do, I love the two C's.
Uh, and so I have two, three groupsof girlfriends that on WhatsApp
(41:50):
and Most often when someone'sgoing through something, the
first question before you're doneis, does anybody have capacity?
Yes.
And I, when I learnedthat, I was like, okay,
it's huge.
(42:14):
I am speechless.
It was just like, itwas like, oh wow, okay.
You know, and especially if you havelittle groups of people or friends for
the WhatsApp group, it's like, if there'sfive in the group, you know, two will
reply, which is great, then you can takeit, and then you can process with them.
(42:35):
Ah, so good.
I love what you, I just want toadd to that too, I think the other
thing that it does that's beautiful,when we start using that language.
We know that many people feel like theyhave to respond or they're, you know,
that, um, that if they don't respond,then something's going to be wrong.
When we start using that language,you actually give people the
(42:57):
invitation, right, to opt out.
And so that's the other thing Ithink is helpful is like, Hey, if I
start with, do you have the capacity?
Then I'm honoring both of us.
I'm actually supporting the boundaries ofboth people and it helps us then start to
shift our expectations of people feelingas though they have to respond or, um,
(43:19):
Uh, the other flip side is then notactually sharing because then they think
they're going to be a burden if we're allusing that language, then it's like, Hey,
you're not being a burden because somebodyin the group probably has capacity.
Right.
So it's these, it's these smalllittle shifts that actually help all
of us feel more comfortable gettingthe support that we need, you know,
(43:41):
without the expectation that we alwayshave to be that person for somebody.
Yeah.
And, and
one of One of my thing that I strugglewith is you see these memes that people
put out there and goes, I'm sorry,I didn't respond to you for two days
(44:04):
or a week because I'm, I'm too busy.
I can't do it.
And with me, one of my
values or intention is that communityis so important because we need people.
We cannot live this life alone, right?
But then when I see memes like that, that.
(44:25):
It that it's okay not to respond.
I'm like, then we're notbeing there for each other.
But I, but I love what you say is thatif we start with do you have capacity.
And the other person responds,I'm sorry, I don't right now, it's
the responding that's important.
Yes.
(44:47):
Because we're not leaving the otherperson hanging, we're not leaving
the other person and the other sidefeeling, do they not care about me?
What is going on?
Why are they not responding to my text?
Even starting off with, Hey,I need to share something.
Do you have the capacity?
And the other person responding goes,No, then you can go somewhere else.
(45:10):
Or even a WhatsApp use thumbs, right?
Like some of it is like, Oh, I don'thave time to say, okay, we've got, we
can come up with our own language, right?
Like, I mean, that's how we allhave language now is somebody
decided symbols and signs.
And right.
So maybe it's a thumbs up.
Like, Hey, who has capacity?
Thumbs up, thumbs down.
It's really quick.
And the other part that I think thatyou added to that I think is important.
(45:33):
Is it's helping each other havemore comfort to break out of these
constructs that don't serve us.
You know?
So when I look at someone who'slike, I'm sorry, it took two weeks.
Part of that was probably feeling bad ofnot having the time, trying to get through
all of whatever's going on to respondtwo weeks later versus feeling they could
(45:56):
be proactive and say, you know what, I'mgoing to be off the grid for a month.
I don't have the capacity or energy.
I can't serve.
Right?
Because that's, that's reallywhat a lot of times happens.
We, I've even had that where I'm like, Oh,I meant to respond, life was happening.
We know that's going to happen.
However, if I feel more comfortable beingproactive and I don't feel that then I'm
(46:21):
not supporting someone because I justwant to, I want to try to fit it in.
I also think that's where thesociety is starting to do this.
So if I say, I mean, I've had peoplewho apologize for not responding
to a text within hours with me.
And I've had to support and say, you knowwhat, if it was urgent, I would have said
(46:41):
urgent in the message, or I would havecalled you, I am not expecting a text
message to become an instant message.
Right.
You have a life.
We have different jobs that wedo as me as an entrepreneur.
I might have more, we'resoulpreneur entrepreneur, right?
Like have more flex.
If I were, if I send you a message at 10and I know you work a job where you're
(47:03):
probably in 15 meetings, I'm actuallysharing it because I need to get it.
I don't want to forget.
Right.
But I think this is again withcommunication I've even had with
some of the people close to me.
Don't apologize for notinstantly responding to me.
I appreciate that you value meand wanting to get back to me.
That is a condition behavior that I knowhappens, especially in corporate, right?
(47:28):
Every time I pinged you, it'slike, I'm sorry, but I still
have a job to do, right?
I just wanted to add that too of like,In our safe spaces, how can we start
having more communication about thesethings that feel disruptive or activating?
I don't quite like to use triggering,but the same thing, activating, that
(47:49):
is now creating spaces where I shouldbe able to be free and tell Patricia,
like, I love you girl, but for thenext two weeks, I just can't do it.
And Patricia's saying, I get it.
Thank you for sharing that with me.
Is it okay if I check in with you?
Right?
Like these are the things that aren'thappening because social media has
had people at other situations, butparticularly social media to your point
(48:11):
is almost disconnecting people fromthe essence of human connection and
is becoming awkward for individualsto share how they're feeling, what's
going on, where they have capacityor not capable of providing support.
I know I went on a little tangent there.
So thank you for that.
But, um, it's just, it's, it'ssomething I see often as well.
(48:33):
So thank you for that.
Yeah.
And that is that, that differencebetween not responding and feeling
bad about not responding and
which I love this conversation we'rehaving, because then we can get everybody
to, to get on board with somebody texts,somebody needs something and you can
(48:59):
say, I'll get back to you tomorrow,or I don't have capacity for you right
now, please reach out to somebody else.
Then I think we can communicatewith each other much better.
And also the expectations, theexpectations are huge, are huge.
And I think it's people like us whorecognize, I think, you know, one of the
(49:22):
things I've realized about my work is.
Part of it is being the modelof something different, right?
Like some of us I feel have to belike, you know what, we're gonna be
a bit of the change we want to see.
Because I also recognize that many timesindividuals aren't doing that, is because
there has been something before thenthat They've been negatively, there's
(49:44):
been negative consequences for it.
Right.
So I think the other part is us gettingcomfortable with the understanding
and context between things.
And I think that's, again, thehuman connection, the communication,
that even exchange from a trustperspective that says, you know what?
I've gotten into that habitbecause it could be work.
I've gotten into that habit becauseeven if I respond and say, I
(50:07):
can't, my boss then knows that I'mavailable and picks up the phone.
Right?
Cause I've, I know people whohave, so we know that it's like,
ah, but this is different becauseI know Patricia won't do that.
So we actually helpingpeople say this, not that.
Because as we know, when we're stressed,it just makes the rule for everything.
(50:28):
Everything becomes an absolute.
And then we forget that we candistinguish between these things.
So I think that's where I know I'vetried to support and help too, of
like, where's that coming from?
And you're like, Oh, but thisisn't this person, right?
Same in my own life where I'm like,ha, I tried to do a blanket situation.
Actually, like I said,Patricia is not like that.
(50:48):
Okay.
I need to remember that.
I know that this is a safe place.
I know I can tell her I'm not available.
I know that she's goingto comfort and support me.
So I need to be mindful of those people.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Love this.
I really want you to share aboutyour upcoming retreats, , I saw
(51:14):
that and I'm just like, I wish Ican go, I wish you could go too.
Maybe there's some creationshipin the future, you know?
Um, yeah.
So I have, so one thing we didn'tget a chance to talk as distinctly
about, but I am shifting into more.
Cause.
Just like, well, kind of what we weretalking about in that same through line,
(51:34):
community and connection is so important.
So a lot of my work initiallywas one on one, which is that
community connection between one.
It really became clear of howmuch community and physical
community I think we need.
I think between the COVID things and,you know, people are still looking for
those deep, safe, enriching spaces.
So I've shifted heavily into.
(51:55):
Group retreats, but they're small andintimate no more than say 15 people
at any of my retreats so that it doesfeel safe and intimate And so I have
two retreats coming up one in november.
That is a release your grief retreatIt is a combination of working through
releasing and expressing your griefhaving a safe space again To be able
(52:16):
to talk about your grief Freely, butalso some tools, somatic body work to
help you release those things, right?
To get back in balance, butit also includes self care.
So it's at a resort so that youcan do health and wellness classes.
There's a facial or massage because manytimes too, and we're going through that.
(52:36):
We're not always takingcare of ourselves, right?
We're not necessarily giving ourselvesjust the, the calm and peace and love
to ourselves through those processes.
And it's for all individualswho've experienced loss.
So that's another thing from acommunity, though you may not be able
to directly relate to someone who'slost a loved one, but the feelings
of loss and grief are still there.
(52:57):
Similar.
And so having those conversationswith others that can also hold
and support you are important.
That's November 21st through 24th.
It's in, um, Arizona carefree, Arizona.
So be carefree in yourreleasing your grief.
Uh, and then my other isDecember 17th through 22nd and
(53:19):
Costa Rica at Emilio Institute.
And that is for receiving.
It's a receive retreat for women of color.
And so each day is about receivingelements and not focusing on giving,
but being comfortable with receiving,receiving more love, more clarity, more
joy and growth and abundance in your life.
(53:40):
So those are my two for this year.
And then all my retreats areavailable on my website for this 2025.
Um, the one thing I will share is, Eachretreat is unique and different based on
situation or circumstance or individuals.
So I do have retreatsthat are not just BIPOC.
I do have retreats thataren't just about grieving.
There's retreats around being anempath, about disconnecting from all the
(54:04):
detoxing, from all the digital stuff.
Um, so yeah, so I just wanted to sharethat too, cause sometimes I get those
questions, I started with women of colorand it's evolved, so it's just based
on theme and experiences for people.
They sound fabulous.
Yay!
I'm, um, I, I'm curious.
(54:26):
With planning a retreat, becauseoftentimes we don't see the hard
work that goes into it, right?
Yes.
Like, especially like, you know,being an entrepreneur, people
think, Oh, she's so great.
She's doing so well.
But behind the scenes thing,nobody ever talk about.
Yes.
(54:47):
Would you share maybethree to five things that.
We don't know as me looking at yougoing goes throwing retreats look
at her she's doing so well, but thenyou're thinking I had girl I did a
lot of hard work behind the scenes.
Yes.
Yeah.
(55:07):
So particularly retreats.
I mean, there are a lot of things.
I think one of the biggest things toois when you're thinking about your say
is your first retreat, particularly forme, I was looking at what did I need?
Right.
What, so I, I looked at like,what were some of the experiences
I had that were challenging?
(55:28):
Could I create what I needed for others?
And what I think that helps, it helpsyou start to think about who would be
the people in that experience, right?
Like what would that come out to be?
And then there's aalignment to the meaning.
What I sometimes find is folks are like,Oh, I want to do, say it's a yoga retreat.
And there isn't necessarily theconnection to you that creates the
(55:50):
passion, the flow, really thinkingabout who will be part of that.
And you don't necessarilyhave to have a large audience.
It is the connection though, to that.
So being thoughtful of what youwant to create and how it aligns to
you, your mission, your passion, oreven a pain point or gap that you
see is not happening in the world.
(56:11):
The other is, you know, thingsaround thinking about your venues.
Each venue is different in theamount of what they can offer as
the holistic offering, the cost,investment, all of those things.
And so thinking about evenfinancially what you have, what your
plan is, most of the time, six toeight months of planning is ideal.
(56:33):
So it gives you some runway.
Now, if you have already a largercommunity and people are like, I'm
ready to sign up yesterday and you'rejust putting it together, but mostly
you want to give yourself that timeto think through, um, connecting with
people, but also the overall planning.
Uh, I think the other thing for me.
That I'm realizing is I will morethan likely need support from a
(56:56):
virtual assistant perspective.
So because I'm comfortable with treats andthe planning, I'm very high touch though.
So this is another thing.
If you're more of things being automatedin your process, or if you're one
who's talking with each individual,I'm one who talks with each individual.
So what I've realized, if I'm goingto keep that high touch experience,
(57:16):
I'm going to need more support onthe back end, so I can keep up with
all the conversations I'm having.
Um, and then just one of the thingsI have realized too, is It's the,
it's the coordination of everything.
So I'm having multiple retreats.
Those are multiple marketing messages.
Those are different target audiences.
(57:39):
Those are different follow ups.
So I invite someone when you're startingto perhaps, unless you are similar to me,
where you can just kind of pivot, startingsomewhere where you feel greater comfort.
Um, and you're laser focusedon that particular retreat.
I started expanding mine once Igot the one down and I kind of have
(58:01):
my weld oil machine of how I wanteverything Like laid out the last thing
actually that I will say too Is makingsure that it's not just the cost of
the accommodations and activities.
Think of all the other thingsthat you might want to include.
Thinking about what your flight maycost, insurance, are you providing
(58:23):
gifts, you know, are there other trinketsand things that you want to include.
Many times when individuals arebudgeting, they're only thinking
about accommodations and food.
For their guests and not all theother things to ensure they're
taking care of financially as well.
And then any other things theywould want to extend to their
guests, either pre or post retreat.
(58:47):
Lots of work going.
Yeah.
Lots of work.
Go for it.
Yes.
And then, I mean, the followup and thingsof that nature, but I think when I was
trying to think of like maybe three orfour things, but yeah, starting with
something that you're passionate about.
And, and I will say too, your passionhelps people connect to their passion.
(59:07):
You know, and again, that's why Isay something that maybe people don't
even realize that they need, or you'reseeing a gap, I felt the receive.
And I thought about just women ingeneral, end up being women of color.
But I was like, man, we have a hard timereceiving without something in return.
And then I just started with that.
And, and ladies were like, Oh my God.
(59:29):
Yeah.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I need some of that,or even some resistance.
Like, I don't know if I'm ready and,you know, and then talking through it.
So I think that's the other pieces.
It's not a one and done if you want tohave these more intimate spaces, you know,
again, it depends on what type of retreat,but it's recognizing you're in connection
(59:49):
and community all the way through.
And, you know, with my retreats,there's connection after the retreat.
So this is not just an event,it is creating community and
connection and experiences.
So that's something to be mindful as well.
Are you planning to continue someconnection with the individuals
that are coming to your retreatsor is it more just an event?
(01:00:10):
And that is a very different experienceand a different planning process as well.
Oh, connection.
I said, always go for connection.
Yep.
Usually the last question of the podcastis, Any advice for the listeners,
but for you, I would love to hear,
(01:00:34):
because we talk about belief, you know,for you, when, with this life, when people
talk about you at the end of your life,what do you want them to say about it?
Nichole helped me feel seen,heard, loved, and healed.
(01:00:56):
That's it.
So every day.
Someone asked me one time, like,what does success look like for you?
If I've done that for one personevery day, I've done my job.
Beautiful.
Thank you, Nichole.
Thank you so much, Patricia.
(01:01:16):
I can't wait to stay connected incommunity and connection with you.
Oh, I'm so, I'm so grateful.
And this just for, before we closefor anyone, this is why things.
Like I've so enjoyed appreciate podcastsbecause it's, it's great to do the
podcast or the people you meet that youwouldn't necessarily meet, um, is the
(01:01:37):
other part of community and connection.
So maybe that's something tofind a podcast that you love.
Maybe reach out to the person and share,and that may start to be your community
because you have that in common.
So I would say with anyone who'swants to connect with me, I know the
socials and things will be available,but you can always set up a call.
Send me a DM.
(01:01:58):
I answer all my DMS.
It's me.
It's not someone else, a bot onbehalf, but yeah, let's start
more community and connection.
You can start with, with me.
So if I can be that for you, Iwould love to be that for you.
I love that.
Thank you.
(01:02:18):
Hmm, I love this conversationwith Nichole and.
It.
Brings to mind.
Question I asked Nichole
. At the end of your life, how do you want to be remembered?
I want to be remembered.
For my kindness and.
(01:02:40):
The love that.
I can.
Give people.
And.
If I only meet a difference inone person's life, this lifetime.
Then.
I've done my job.
(01:03:00):
So as I leave you this week.
Here's an invitation to think abouthow do you want to be remembered?
When you leave this earth.
Be gentle with yourself.
Be good with yourselfand please check out.
Nichole's website and retreats.
(01:03:22):
I was shared the link In the show notes.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
(01:03:44):
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
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