October 7, 2024 • 44 mins
In this episode of the Conversations With Your Chinese Auntie podcast, I chat with Vancouver-based fantasy and romance author Katrina Kwan. Katrina shares her journey to becoming a successful romance ghostwriter and debut author. We discuss her new book, The Last Dragon of the East, set to launch on October 8th and delve into her creative process, the challenges of exploring family history, and the support she's received along the way. Katrina also offers aspiring writers insights and advice, sharing her technical tips and personal experiences.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hi, everyone.
I hope you're doing well.
Welcome to conversationswith your Chinese.
Auntie podcast.
I am your Chinese auntie YiYi.
Patricia Petersen.
I hope you're doing well andsettling into fall in this
episode, I talk to Katrina, Kwan.
(00:23):
Katrina is a Vancouver basedfantasy and romance author.
With , six years of experienceas a romance .. Ghost writer.
She is very excited to finally bewriting stories under her own name.
I will share more aboutKatrina in the show notes.
In this episode, we talkabout Katrina's path.
(00:45):
We talked about her debut adultfantasy, the last dragon of
the east is set to be released.
October eighth.
I hope you pre-order her boOk.
Good morning, Katrina.
Good morning.
(01:06):
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for saying yes.
Oh, thank you very much for having me.
I'm very excited.
Me too.
And I love your book.
So I really wanted to talk to you.
I think I read it in two days.
Really?
Oh, wow.
I'm a fast reader.
Oh my gosh.
(01:29):
First question of the podcast,please introduce yourself, your
lineage, anything that comes to mind.
Sure.
So my name is Katrina Kwan.
I am a Vancouver based fantasyand contemporary romance author.
I'm of Chinese descent.
My father's from Hong Kong.
My mom's from Wenzhou.
(01:50):
But I am the first, firstgeneration Canadian.
So I was born and raisedhere in Vancouver.
Um, and I, that's me.
It's always hard to summarize.
I know, right?
Wait, so mom's from Guangzhou.
What is that, China?
Yeah, China.
It's a coastal city.
Um, yeah, all I know is it's on the coast.
(02:12):
She doesn't really talk.
I don't know.
I was joking the other day with one of myfriends, like it's an Asian parent thing.
They don't really talkabout themselves at all.
So that's all I know aboutmy parents, really, truly.
Uh, no, it's true.
They don't, I, when my parents, bothmy parents have passed, but when I was
trying to learn about Family history.
(02:34):
Yeah.
And I was like, so tell me about yourgrandparents and both of their answers
were like, ah, that's in the past.
I, I was literally just having aconversation with my parents over lunch.
I'm like, I don't evenknow my grandparents names.
Can you tell me?
And they're like, Oh, we just, we callthem, you know, Popo and that's it.
You know, that's their name.
(02:54):
I'm like, okay, that's great.
It's hard when you're tryingto learn about family history.
And they don't tell you anything.
I don't know why.
You know, with my family, what was helpfulwas going to the auntie and uncles.
Oh, see, I don't even havethat many auntie and uncles.
(03:15):
That's why.
So it's like, anything they cangive me, I drink up because it's so
difficult to get that information.
To start with.
Yeah.
So your parents immigrated to Vancouver.
Well, originally my father whenhe was 10 he moved to Calgary,
and then eventually they met anddecided to come back to Vancouver.
(03:36):
Yeah.
You know it's very interesting the.
I don't know whether this isthe case with your family but
when people do the ancestral.
So, uh, The investigationabout their ancestry.
I find it's very hardto do it with Chinese.
(03:57):
But I know it's like all thoserecords are kept so like tight.
It's like no one's business, you know?
Oh, it's so hard.
My family tree for like schoolprojects were always so sparse because
there was just nothing to report on.
I think, I'm pretty sure.
I'm pretty sure for a school project I hadto like, make up my grandparents' names
(04:18):
'cause nobody would tell me anything.
Mm-Hmm.
. Mm-Hmm.
. When the, I shouldn't tell youthis, I put it out in public, but,
uh, but when I was doing my mastersin, in counseling, we had to do a
genogram, which is like family tree.
Mm-Hmm.
, some of the information were made up.
Mm-Hmm.
(04:39):
because, because my parents had died.
Where do you get that info?
Yeah, you don't know who to ask.
No, no.
So I'd love to hear about yourjourney, you know, childhood, career.
I know you were a ghostwriter.
(05:01):
Yeah.
So I feel like my childhood isvery typical for, uh, you know,
um, first generation, uh, wherethere's this expectation that.
You know, I have to be a doctor ora lawyer or an architect, something
safe and stable and high achieving.
And so even though as a little girl, Ihad always had this passion for writing.
(05:24):
I loved being creative.
I loved art and theater and musicand writing, and I love languages.
I love learning languages.
And it was very clear.
In hindsight, it was very clear.
Like I was very arts, humanities leading,but because I had that expectation of, Oh,
I have to be a doctor and have somethingstable and provide for the family and
(05:45):
have something secure for myself, Iforced myself to take the sciences
and maths, even though I was terrible.
I was, I know there's the stereotype ofAsians being good at math, but I was.
Oh God, I was a troubled child.
I, yeah, me too.
Me too.
Right.
Um, bless my, bless my math teacher.
(06:07):
Cause she was so patient with me, butI just could not grasp the concepts,
but eventually it came to a pointwhere I had to go off to college and
that big decision of what do you wantto do with the rest of your life?
And I made the split decision.
Like, okay.
I.
I know if I'm being honest withmyself, I'm not going to make it
through, um, a Bachelor of Science.
(06:28):
I'm not going to make itthrough medical school.
My, I have passion there, andI think it's very interesting,
but those aren't my strengths.
So I decided to go intopolitics, because I always found
that incredibly fascinating.
And, um, I, I finished my Bachelorof Arts in Political Science
from McKinney University, whichis actually out in Nova Scotia.
(06:50):
And I had the intention of going intolaw, because that's the second safe thing.
I hadn't quite broken out of that mold.
Um, but I took my LSAT exam andwalked out, and I was like, Hmm, I
don't know if this is for me either.
So I wound up for a year, just workinga bank at a job, as a teller at a bank.
(07:11):
That's it.
And after that year, again, I was like,Oh, no, oh, no, this isn't for me.
Like, I was just very 20 year old crisis.
Like, this is I have to choose wisely.
And I don't know if I can dothis for the rest of my life.
So on a whim, I decided to look for awriting job just on like an online forum.
(07:34):
And I happened to find someone whowas looking for a, an article writer.
And I had no experience and theywere like, can we see your portfolio?
So don't tell anyone Imade up my portfolio.
I did a bunch of research,like, Oh, what does.
What does a mommy blog article look like?
And so I put together fake articles justto prove that I could write, because they
(07:54):
don't really care about your credentials.
Um, as long as you canproduce the content.
And that's how I landed myfirst job as a ghostwriter.
And eventually one thing led toanother, a client referred me to
another client and they were lookingfor a romance ghostwriter and they
were like, can you write romance books?
Again, no, I hadn't done it.
But I'm a, I'm a fake ituntil you make it kind of gal.
(08:16):
And I was like, yeah, sure.
Hold on.
Let me, let me show you asample, which I whipped up in
like an hour and they liked it.
So I landed my very first book joband one thing led to another and
next six years, I was a professionalghostwriter, uh, specifying in romance.
(08:36):
I felt like I was talking forever.
I'm so sorry.
Apologize.
I love it.
I have two questions.
How did the trainees parents react toyou choosing creative versus sciences?
Ooh, okay.
I feel like
(08:57):
they never explicitly statedthey were disappointed.
I feel like they're,they're not disappointed.
It more, I understand that it comesfrom a place of like, they just want
to make sure that I'll be okay and thatI'll be, you know, comfortable in life.
Um, but I think they're, I definitelysensed their hesitation when I was
like, I don't know if I want tobe a doctor or a lawyer anymore.
(09:18):
And they're like, okay,well, what do you want to do?
I don't know.
And so obviously theywere quite apprehensive.
But once I started really gettinginto the rhythm of what it was to
be a ghostwriter producing work.
Basically paying my bills ontime every month and eating okay.
They were like, okay, um, clearlyyou're passionate about this.
You're, um, you know, I'm an authorfirst, but I'm a businesswoman second.
(09:42):
Like I knew how to take care of things.
Um, and so once they saw that I was okay,they were like, all right, good for you.
I'm not that they would ever saythat, but I can tell it's in there.
It's in their eyes, you know,Well, they must be so proud of you
with your, with your book, the,uh, They're so casual about it.
I'm sure they are proud,but they're like, Oh, good.
(10:05):
They're books in stores.
So I saw it the other day.
Typical Chinese parents.
Oh, yeah, they're, they're very, Iknow they're proud, but they're not.
Why it's so expressive?
It's okay.
It's fine.
I'm not, I'm not beat up about it.
(10:27):
I'm teasing ya.
It's funny when youshared the science part.
So, uh, I grew up in Singapore and whenI was in high school, uh, they split you
into the arts and the science stream.
Oh, interesting.
And arts means you take history,geography, you know, and the science
(10:49):
stream, you've got to do physics, uh,chemistry, and my mother in her wisdom
thought I should go into science becausesame thing, you should be a doctor.
I need a doctor in the family.
And she put me into the sciencestream for three years, the
last three years of high school.
But what my mom didn't expectwas that year, the art teacher
(11:13):
complained to the principal.
She was sick of theart student taking art.
She wants the science student to take art.
Interesting.
Yeah, and so we decided, so all thescience students, now we have to take art.
And I went home and I said to my mom,about six months in, I'm like, What do
(11:38):
you think if I decide to be an artist?
Because I think I was good at it.
And my mom was like, I would disown you.
No.
I mean, I don't think she would havedone it, but she was like, no, no.
Very clear disapproval.
(11:59):
Ouch.
Ouch.
But I didn't go into science either.
Mm.
Sometimes you just, you haveto, you just know, you know
if something is meant for you.
But it takes courage tolisten to it, you know.
Absolutely.
It wasn't an easy choice, no.
No, I bet not.
(12:21):
Would you share a bit, for peoplewho are thinking, you know, maybe
writing is something I want topursue, how does a, what, how does
the job of a ghost writer look like?
It's, it's very, very interesting.
I was surprised when I first, um, wascontracted to write my first book, there
(12:43):
is a whole world, a whole industry outthere, kind of, not in the shadows,
because it's perfectly legitimate,but there's a whole world out there.
There's a whole industry out theredesigned, it's, it's basically, you
know, you've got the client and they puttogether a team of editors, copywriters,
(13:04):
uh, ghost writers specifically, and,um, graphic artists to create the
image, quote unquote, of an author.
And so it's especially prevalent onAmazon where, you know, they have
Amazon, um, KDP, where you can, youknow, Self published, basically.
It's very prominent there.
(13:24):
That's the, that's the sortof field that I was in anyway.
But there's also like, um, ghostwriterswho are hired by big publishers to write
on behalf of specifically like memoirs,a lot of those celebrity memoirs.
You know, I'm not saying that thecelebrities didn't write themselves.
But, you know.
I'm not saying, I'm not saying anything.
(13:48):
I put about, I put that before.
Yeah.
Um, but in my particular expertise, youknow, I actually worked alongside several
other ghostwriters and we all, were thesame quote unquote author, so that way,
once I wrote a book, the next ghostwritercould write the next book in the series,
and then the next ghostwriter could writethe next one, and so that way, the client
(14:12):
always ensured that they had contentcoming out month after month after month.
They're able to producein really fast order.
quantities that way, um, to retaintheir readership, basically.
And so, you know, I'm not, I can'tsay who, what projects I wrote or what
names I wrote for, but it's, there'san entire system, um, behind the
(14:35):
scenes sort of putting these books out.
And unless you're looking for it, it's,It's as though they are real people.
Like, you can't tell.
It's so seamless and well done.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
So in my innocence about thiswhole thing, as ghostwriter,
your name doesn't go on the book.
(14:57):
Nope.
I, I basically, I write the book and,uh, they pay me a flat fee per word.
And once it's done, I give thebook to them and that's it.
I clap my hands free and Imove on to the next project.
Um, and a part of, a part of me is like, Iknow a lot of people like, oh, that sucks.
You did all that work and you getno recognition, but that's the
(15:18):
job and you kind of go into thatknowing it, but I'm definitely
happy to be writing for myself now.
Um, but I see it as a, as a greatIt was a fantastic opportunity for
me to work on my craft and, youknow, practice, practice, practice.
So it was twofold for me.
I get, I get to pay my bills and I getto do what I love and get better at it.
(15:39):
And eventually I puttogether my very first book.
So a last question aboutbeing a ghostwriter then.
So if I hire you to ghostwrite,do the ideas come from me
or does it come from you?
So it depends, it's actually, uh, whatwe did, it was, it sort of depended
(16:00):
on the client, on the project.
Some clients that I workedwith already had the idea, they
already had an outline for me.
They knew what characters theywanted, what tropes they wanted,
how long, relatively what thestoryline wanted to look like.
And all I had to do was takethat outline and write it.
But, uh, some of my other clientswere like, we'll pay you a little
(16:20):
extra, but can you come up withthe storyline and then write it?
I'm like, yeah, sure.
Um, so I feel like, you know,a lot of, those projects where
I had to come up from scratch.
I don't feel like I'm, you know,some people would, would worry, Oh,
you're giving up your own ideas.
What if you want to, wantedto use them for yourself?
(16:41):
But the genre specifically in whichI was writing, they had me writing a
lot of like raunchy, raunchy stuff.
And I feel like A lot of those ideasI used for those books, I don't
think I would ever really touchon in my own work, in the, in the
projects that mean something to me.
So it's okay.
They can have the really, um,spicy, um, they can have that.
(17:04):
It's okay.
I'm all right with it.
I'm just giggling in the background.
Um, oh, wow.
I, I feel like
this is similar in a lot of We don'tget to see the behind the scene.
You know, and I find, and I knowghostwriter is not that hush hush
(17:28):
anymore because I, I've heard a lot ofsome celebrities with Manoa, they, they
do admit that they have ghostwritersand some well known authors too.
But I feel like, oh, that's just,you guys are doing all the hard work.
So,
(17:52):
the creativity part of it.
I would love to hear more, like do youhave, I know some artists, writers have
a certain time where they are the mostcreative and they write, they go, they
lock themselves up in a hotel room for20 days to write their first draft.
(18:15):
How does, So, I don't know if thisis too much information, but all of
my ideas for my books come to me whenI'm shampooing my hair in the shower.
I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
It's just the meditative kind ofmindless activity of washing my hair
(18:36):
that allows my brain to wander andsuddenly an idea for a story will pop in.
I, I don't, I've nevergone on a writing retreat.
But when I, because I've workedfrom home for so long that like
my office space is just my, whereI'm most comfortable to write.
I, I wake up in the morning andthe first thing I do is go to my
(18:56):
office and, and just, Start writing.
Um, and I'll, I, my husband getsvery upset because he's like,
you have no work life balance.
You literally get up, you write all day.
And it's not write all day, like,consistently throughout the day.
It comes in spurts.
And I should get better at it.
I should set hours for myself,because I literally, I'm so
(19:17):
sedentary, it's bad for my health.
Um, but I just, I spend all day at mycomputer writing and jotting down ideas.
And even that dinner time I'll havea notepad because sometimes ideals
will come to me there and I'll justwrite something down real quick.
Um, creativity kind of strikes mewhenever, usually when I'm doing the
(19:39):
most mundane things, so it's alwaysimportant to have a notepad on hand.
Have you ever experienced like a block?
Oh yeah, oh definitely.
I um, for my next next book, soafter The Last Dragon of the East, my
book coming out in 2025, it's calledThe Legend of the Nine Tailed Fox.
(20:01):
I'm actually working on the edits now.
I, um, was stuck on thatbook for maybe six months.
Um, I had written maybe 14 differentversions of that story before I landed
on the version I, I finally finished.
Um, cause I just, I think a part of mejust wasn't satisfied with how, how the
story began, the direction I was takingit, these little things that just as
(20:26):
an author make me feel like it's offand therefore I need to start again.
So I've definitely hadpretty bad blocks where.
It's more of a me thing where Ifeel dissatisfied with the work
and so it just, I can't continueto be working on that project.
Is the, is the, the onethat's coming out in 2025.
(20:50):
Is it a continuation of theLast Dragon of the East.
So it's, it's a standalone.
Um, the Last Dragon of the East isalso a standalone, but they're sort
of, they exist within the same.
universe, the same world.
So there are callbacks, there arereferences to one another, but you're
able to read both by themselves.
(21:10):
I think the, the Nine Tailed Foxtakes place 5, 000 years before
the Last Dragon of the East.
So they're, they're totally separatestories, um, but you can still
enjoy, you know, the locations,the settings, the references.
And, uh, I just don't have the staminaright now to write like a series.
I've never done it before.
So I felt like this was a good way ofPaying homage to the first project while
(21:33):
still creating something brand new.
It just popped into my head.
I'm thinking, oh, if that book is5, 000 years, and the two books
are separate, you could at somepoint do a series with that 5, 000.
I mean, maybe.
I'm leaving it wide open.
(21:53):
But you know, for now,it's just these two.
I'm just saying, no pressure.
You know, I'm just dropping it.
You know, I love your book.
So I'm just like, Oh, that'slike 5, 000 years, my friend.
I can slot something in.
Yeah, no problem.
No pressure, pressure.
(22:15):
When I'm curious, I do want to talkabout the last Dragon of the East.
Before I ask you that, I'm curiouswhen you think about your life, you
know, has Has anyone contributed tothat creativity, like, to, because
from the sound of it, my God, you'retalented in this to be able to write.
(22:38):
Oh, I'm blessed.
Oh, thank you.
Oh my gosh, I feel like.
Obviously, my, my teachers in schoolwho recognized, you know, you should
be in the humanities, like what areyou doing, just struggling in math
and calculus and, and chemistry.
I had a, my high schoolEnglish teacher, Mrs.
(22:59):
Flinterman, I still remember her.
I think she just, you know, She wasjust such a wonderful inspiration
to have in my life because shewas so sweet and supportive and,
you know, she loved everything Iwrote and so that's always a boost.
Um, so that was definitely an earlyinfluence, but I think now, you know,
I have a lot of authors who are friendsand I get to read their works early
(23:22):
and just get inspired by just theirtalent to, you know, to witness it.
Um, as it's being written is always fun,but in a more immediate sense, I feel like
I have my husband to thank because when Iwas first starting trying to get my foot
in the door of ghostwriting, he reallysupported me, you know, emotionally,
mentally, financially, to help takethat And That load off my shoulders so
(23:46):
I could just focus on writing and if itnot for him, I probably would never have
been able to launch into this direction.
Um, yeah, that's me being sappy.
Hey sappy, go, go, do yoursappy, have a good day.
Having a good partnermakes a huge difference.
Yeah, it does.
(24:07):
When I see you in real life,we'll get sad together.
My man's pretty good too.
We'll swap stories.
We'll swap stories.
So do you think you will stayin the fantasy romance genre?
I feel like
I'm already kind of leaning into,I feel like, I'm not traditionally
(24:33):
contemporary rom com, not traditionallyfantasy, because I like, in my
fantasy specifically, just becauseI'm working on Ninetales Fox, I have
a very heavy, not only do I have aromance lean, but I also have a very
heavy horror lean, and so I like tocombine these little elements of that.
genres.
So it's, it's not necessarilystraight horror or straight romance.
(24:54):
It's a combination of everything.
Cause I think when it comes tofantasy, you have so much room to play
and create a world that's your own.
And I don't see why you should limityourself to one specific genre.
And if in truth, I'm not reallythinking about genre, I'm just
kind of going with the flow.
But, um, Yeah, so my, my fantasies tendto take a slightly darker lean, touch
(25:16):
on darker subjects, and my rom comstend to deal with, you know, they're not
always funny, there, there's brevity,there's, um, there are issues that I
try to tackle and explore in, throughmy characters, um, but in, ultimately,
in an uplifting, light hearted way.
(25:36):
Um, so readers don't walk awaylike, Oh, I'm depressed now.
I thought that was supposed to, supposedto be a rom com, but I like to try it
to strike a balance, um, in my genres.
So, I don't know.
I'm not going to say never say never.
I might venture into different genreseventually, but for now I'm quite,
I'm just, you know, I'm just starting.
(25:57):
These are my first two books.
So we'll, we'll see.
What the future has in store.
Yeah.
And I, when you said that, um, thereare some issues that you bring up with
the characters and your book, you know,knife seasonings and a dash of love.
You did that because I was like,she's touching on subject that.
(26:17):
And, uh, I shouldn't admit this,but I did, I did flip to the last
chapter to see how the two characters,whether they figure things out or not.
My husband always teased me, he'slike, are you cheating again?
I'm like, but I have to know.
I have to know the suspense.
Yeah.
Either I email herdirectly or I need to know.
(26:38):
So I'm just flipping to the last chapter.
. The Last Dragon of the East.
Tell us about the book.
So, The Last Dragon of the East, withoutspoilers, is about a young man named
Sai, who has the ability to see redthreads of fate, which is a East Asian,
(27:01):
but specifically in this case a Chinesemyth, of this invisible red thread of
magic that connects you to your soulmate.
And He, he can, he can see these threadsand he likes to help couples come
together as sort of like a side hustle.
Um, but the thing is his ownthread is gray and fraying,
and he's not too sure why.
(27:22):
So after, um, he has an accidentalrun in with a pair of dragon
scales, he stumbles upon thisreally rare medicine for his mother.
He's sort of embroiled into this.
And he has this devious plot tohunt down the last dragon of the
east by order of the emperor.
And along the way he goes on this massivejourney across the lands to not only
(27:46):
save his mother, but to find this dragon.
And!
along the way, he may or maynot find his, uh, his soulmate.
So it's a love story, it's anadventure, it's, my friends tell me
it's heartbreaking, but in a hopefulway, because it does involve, you
know, love across lifetimes, and that'salways something very special to me.
(28:10):
Anne is coming out inthe Year of the Dragon.
I know.
I realized that when I firstgot the announcement and I
was like, this is good luck.
I'm not superstitious, but I'm a littlestitious and I think that's great.
Would you say, would you sharewhat your Chinese animal is?
So, it depends on which calendaror whose calendar you use
(28:31):
because I'm an in between.
So I'm either a dog or I'meither a year of the board,
but it depends on who you ask.
Okay.
But mom says I'm a pig,so we'll go with that.
Hey, both are goodfriends with a dragon, so.
Ooh.
Yeah, that's so great.
(28:52):
How much research do youhave to do with every book?
So, for Las Vegas specifically, Idid a lot because, like I said at
the beginning, you know, my parentsdon't really talk about their past.
They don't talk about their own families,they don't talk about their upbringing.
And so, at some point I got reallycurious, like, oh, what, What stories
did you hear growing up as kids?
(29:12):
What, because, you know, growing uphere in Canada, I'm very familiar
with Greek mythology, Roman mythology,Norse mythology, but I know very
little about Chinese mythology,which is a shame because I feel
like I should know as a ChineseCanadian, I should connect somehow.
But when I asked my parents, theydon't, they didn't really, they
kind of avoided the question.
(29:33):
They're like, oh, he won't know.
I'm like, I'm askingbecause I want to know.
So I had to do research on my ownand I stumbled upon, you know, the
original tale of the Red Thread ofFate, you know, Chang'e and Houyi, um,
uh, the serpent, uh, the white snake.
The Legend of the White Snake, allof these myths and legends that they
(29:53):
would have grown up with, and I'msure my grandparents would have too.
And so in many ways this project startedas sort of a way to connect, even
though they made it very difficult.
Um, and so a lot of the research thatwent into this book was basically
mostly just about the myths andkeeping as true as possible to them,
uh, without twisting them too much.
(30:15):
Cause I, what I was trying to do wasuse these myths as like building blocks.
So they exist as truth within the world,but Sai's story is sort of his own thing.
And so I feel like hopefully I've weavedthem together in a way that makes it
an homage to everyone who's come beforeme, but also something brand new for,
for readers down the line to enjoy.
(30:38):
Yeah.
And I, I have to say I'm so.
grateful for authors like you,like Asian authors who are writing
these books because, look, I'm alot older than you, but since, and
I've been in Canada for 30 years.
At that time, there were not many booksthat would talk about these folk tales
(31:03):
that, you know, and, um, Su Lin Tan does agreat job of writing books like that too.
And I'm just, I eat these stories upeven though they are fiction, right.
But I love them.
I love reading about them becauselike you say, you infuse some of
what the stories are that we know.
(31:25):
Yeah.
For me, it's just, I'm so glad thatthere are stories out there and like
with books oftentimes I'll get extraand then I'll put it in the Little
library in the neighborhood, becauseI, one of my things I want people to
know that these stories exist thatthese authors like yourself exist.
(31:51):
Yeah, I mean I said the intentionin 2020 that most of the books
I read will be by pop authors.
Especially Asian authors, becauseI, I believe we need to, we
need to support each other.
For sure.
Definitely.
Uh, what do you do for fun?
(32:12):
Oh, gosh, I write.
I'm, like I said, I'm very boring.
I have no work life balance.
But, um, if I had to say, I've pickedup recently, um, painting my books.
So it's still very nerdy, but I'lltake, I'll take my books and, um,
because a lot of places sell limitededitions, but I can never like get
(32:33):
them in time because they go so fast.
So I've started painting the edgeswith my own designs or just coloring
them in, which is very relaxing.
I'm not very good.
I'm a very poor author and some mightargue that I'm ruining them because my
art is atrocious, but it's a lot of fun.
And, um, So I've taken up painting, butI've also, I'm really big on kickboxing.
(32:54):
I have like a little gymdownstairs in my basement.
So whenever I'm a little frustrated,I'll take it out on the bag.
Um, oh, and I'm really into gardening.
I've got a little, I've got alot of plants and a lot of a
little herb garden on my balcony.
So that's fun.
I read somewhere that you, you'retrying not to kill all your plants.
(33:14):
Oh, it's not going well.
They're, uh, I must bedoing something wrong.
'cause they don't like me at all.
They're having a hard time.
Oh yeah.
It's, it's real bad.
I, oh my God.
I get, I get it.
I'm only laughing because I get it.
So my, I have an older sister.
Mm.
She's the one with the green thumb.
Mm.
(33:35):
In the family.
Like she, so she, she in inheritedthat from my maternal grandmother.
She can't make anything.
Flower that is not supposed to flower.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
I have a jade plan.
Mm-Hmm.
That I kind of have to buya new one every two years.
Because I killed it.
And Jade plant, you'renot supposed to kill.
They're like, No, they'resupposed to be very difficult.
(33:55):
Yeah.
Oops.
plant killer.
Hello.
Terrible.
just terrible.
Uh, hey, I saw that videoof you painting your book.
Yeah!
On Instagram.
Are you using watercolor?
Uh, acrylic.
(34:15):
Acrylic.
Watercolor, uh, the fear is thatit'll bleed into the pages, so, um,
you have to be very careful abouthow much moisture you're using.
It's, it's, it's relaxing,but also stressful.
Because you don't want to ruin the pages.
the actual integrity of the book.
I can't wait to see it, because Iwas watching the video, I was like,
she didn't post the end result.
(34:37):
Oh, well, I'm just very shy, becauseI'm like, I don't think it's very good.
It's just, it's just for me.
Like, I'll show the process, but the endstuff is, my art is, uh, questionable.
Artists are the artists on themselves.
Of course we are.
I'm just saying.
How much of a perfectionist are youwith, with your, with your writing?
(35:01):
Oh gosh, I'm, I'm like, I'm a recoveringperfectionist, but it's not going well.
Um, no, I, I definitely have acomplex about the quality of my work.
I was supposed to submit my editsfor Nine Tailed Fox like a couple
of days ago, but I decided, no, no,no, wait, I can make this better.
And so I'm on like my seventhround of edits and I'm still not
(35:23):
happy, but eventually I'm goingto have to just let it go and be
like, this is the best I can do.
Um.
Yeah, I just feel like I'ma, I'm a big perfectionist.
I it's something that kind ofhas been with me my whole life.
And I feel like it's just the atmosphereI grew up in was very competitive.
So,
(35:45):
but I imagine it must be so hardthough, because you can add it and
add it and add it and it's like,Eventually you have to let it go.
But that's always hard because you'relike, no, I could have made it better.
I don't know.
But it's a, you know what, I'veadopted this practice of like, you can
always improve for the next book, youknow, so do your best for this one.
(36:07):
Hear what people have to say,learn where you can improve and
just do your best for next time.
I have to remind myself.
My heart is pounding just at the thoughtbecause I'm like, I, I'm, I know I'm
gonna be really, really anal about this.
I so I make pottery for fun.
I'm a hobby and I always tell peopleyou have a perfectionist tendencies
(36:31):
or control issue, learn pottery.
Yeah, because it teaches you to let go.
It doesn't.
It is what it is.
Well, it is what it is because so muchof the process, you figure out really,
really early, you have no control.
, yeah, you can do your best, butat some point maybe the thing will
(36:52):
crack, maybe it will, the colorthat you think it's gonna be good
comes out and it's like, hmm, yeah.
So you gotta give up.
What are you, so you areworking on the book in 2025.
Any other things of workingon that you want to share?
(37:13):
Any projects?
Uh, yeah.
I, I don't have a lotof information on it.
So, um, I've just submitteda new book proposal to my
editors at Random House Canada.
It's a new contemporarydramedy, I would say.
(37:34):
Um, and that's all I have.
I'm able to divulge.
They haven't told me if they want it yet.
I think they get a little bit moretime to decide, but it's a good
sign they haven't said outright no.
You know, so I'm hoping, I'm praying,I'm hoping I get some good news
because that would be really great.
But hopefully I haveanother romcom in the works.
(37:54):
And I've got ideas for a newfantasy series, kind of percolating,
but I haven't quite figuredout how, how I want to tell it.
So, it's just an idea.
It's there.
It's floating.
Cool.
But for now, I'm just focusingon my recent book launch, uh,
Last Dragon and Nightingale Fox.
(38:14):
A couple more questions for you.
What do you wish peopleknow about being an author?
Um,
we're sensitive.
All creatives are a little sensitive.
But you know, I'm just always so happywhen people when they pick up my book
(38:34):
and they're excited and they they tagme and they're like, this was so good.
I read it in a day.
It just makes me so happy.
It makes me The whole day I'm just alittle giddy because I'm like, Oh my
gosh, someone out there, someone outthere who I don't know, took the time to
reach out and say that they love the book.
And that's just such an amazing feeling.
Um, authors also have verypoor posture and bad backs.
(38:59):
Maybe that's just me, actually.
Um,
and we authors, authors do what theydo because they, they have stories
to tell and, you know, What theyhave to say is important and, you
know, go in and read the book, havefun, take away the lessons you, that
(39:19):
really resonate with you and yeah.
What advice would you giveyourself when you were 20?
So hard.
Ugh, hitting me with the hard questions.
Um, I'm sorry.
(39:41):
It's okay.
What advice would I give myself?
I could, I can think of one.
What's yours?
For you, it would be walk awayfrom the sciences, walk away.
I know!
If I had known earlier, I probablywould have gone into writing
so much faster, but oh well.
I think maybe,
(40:04):
well my dad has a saying, do whatyou love and the money will follow.
So I feel like if I told myself toput a little more faith in that.
Like I do now, um, I think I wouldbe a lot less stressed as a person.
It's true, isn't it?
It really is.
It's true, it's true.
(40:25):
Uh, last question for you.
Any advice for if you meet ayoung person that says, Oh, I
really want to be an author.
Any advice for them?
That's a strange I have so much advice,but I feel like I can't condense it.
(40:45):
You know, uh, My first major one,specifically with regards to writing
technique, is to outline, becauseI feel like a lot of young writers,
you know, there's a discoursewithin the writing community.
Are you a plotter or are you a pantser?
You know, are you, are you planningeverything out or are you going
off the seat of your pants?
(41:06):
And both are perfectly valid.
I, I'm, I'm personally a hybrid ofboth, but I feel like when you're a new
writer and you're just starting out, Ithink it's really important for you to
at least have a, a roadmap so that youcan get from chapter one to the end.
Um, because when you're in a spyingauthor, the first thing you need to
(41:26):
do is finish the book before you canworry about finding an agent, getting a
book deal, you need to actually finishthe project and I feel like having
an outline to at least follow along.
If.
You decide, oh, let'stake it in this direction.
At least you still have a roadmap to referback to, to get from point A to point B.
So that's my advice from atechnical perspective, but
(41:49):
I feel like from a more, um,
overreach overarching perspective,surround yourself with
people who will support you.
Um, be that.
Friends or family.
Sometimes friends and family aren'tthe best, um, at giving advice when it
(42:10):
comes to writing because I feel like alot of them will be like, no, no, no,
it's good when it could use some work.
I recommend, um, you know, go, go toyour local library, join writing clubs,
uh, join online forums, make friendswho are also authors, uh, who are also
writers, um, so you can basically sharein the love of your craft, because
(42:30):
I feel like your best ideas, my, uh,you know, knives got off the ground.
When I was writing live season ofDashalove, I would go to my writing
friends and ask them for advice.
Like, what do you think of this dialogue?
What do you think of this character arc?
Is this scene too raunchy?
You know, and they're justa great resource to have and
they're wonderful support.
And that's, that's a twopronged advice for you.
(42:54):
It's really long winded.
I'm sorry.
Don't apologize.
I think that's great advicebecause there's so much.
For the listeners, the last Dragon ofthe East is on pre-order right now.
Well, maybe by the time this episodecomes out, we'll be, it'll be out.
It'll be out.
It comes out October 8th and Knifeseasoning and Dash of Love is
available wherever books are sold.
(43:17):
And I love that book.
Thank you, Katrina.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, what a greatconversation with Katrina.
Her new book.
The last dragon of theEast is out on October 8th.
I hope you enjoy this episode and.
(43:39):
Please remember to like subscribeand share this podcast with
anyone you think will enjoy it.
have a beautiful day.
See you next time.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
(44:00):
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapetersen.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
(44:20):
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
Hi, everyone.
I hope you're doing well.
Welcome to conversationswith your Chinese.
Auntie podcast.
I am your Chinese auntie YiYi.
Patricia Petersen.
I hope you're doing well andsettling into fall in this
episode, I talk to Katrina, Kwan.
(00:23):
Katrina is a Vancouver basedfantasy and romance author.
With , six years of experienceas a romance .. Ghost writer.
She is very excited to finally bewriting stories under her own name.
I will share more aboutKatrina in the show notes.
In this episode, we talkabout Katrina's path.
(00:45):
We talked about her debut adultfantasy, the last dragon of
the east is set to be released.
October eighth.
I hope you pre-order her boOk.
Good morning, Katrina.
Good morning.
(01:06):
Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for saying yes.
Oh, thank you very much for having me.
I'm very excited.
Me too.
And I love your book.
So I really wanted to talk to you.
I think I read it in two days.
Really?
Oh, wow.
I'm a fast reader.
Oh my gosh.
(01:29):
First question of the podcast,please introduce yourself, your
lineage, anything that comes to mind.
Sure.
So my name is Katrina Kwan.
I am a Vancouver based fantasyand contemporary romance author.
I'm of Chinese descent.
My father's from Hong Kong.
My mom's from Wenzhou.
(01:50):
But I am the first, firstgeneration Canadian.
So I was born and raisedhere in Vancouver.
Um, and I, that's me.
It's always hard to summarize.
I know, right?
Wait, so mom's from Guangzhou.
What is that, China?
Yeah, China.
It's a coastal city.
Um, yeah, all I know is it's on the coast.
(02:12):
She doesn't really talk.
I don't know.
I was joking the other day with one of myfriends, like it's an Asian parent thing.
They don't really talkabout themselves at all.
So that's all I know aboutmy parents, really, truly.
Uh, no, it's true.
They don't, I, when my parents, bothmy parents have passed, but when I was
trying to learn about Family history.
(02:34):
Yeah.
And I was like, so tell me about yourgrandparents and both of their answers
were like, ah, that's in the past.
I, I was literally just having aconversation with my parents over lunch.
I'm like, I don't evenknow my grandparents names.
Can you tell me?
And they're like, Oh, we just, we callthem, you know, Popo and that's it.
You know, that's their name.
(02:54):
I'm like, okay, that's great.
It's hard when you're tryingto learn about family history.
And they don't tell you anything.
I don't know why.
You know, with my family, what was helpfulwas going to the auntie and uncles.
Oh, see, I don't even havethat many auntie and uncles.
(03:15):
That's why.
So it's like, anything they cangive me, I drink up because it's so
difficult to get that information.
To start with.
Yeah.
So your parents immigrated to Vancouver.
Well, originally my father whenhe was 10 he moved to Calgary,
and then eventually they met anddecided to come back to Vancouver.
(03:36):
Yeah.
You know it's very interesting the.
I don't know whether this isthe case with your family but
when people do the ancestral.
So, uh, The investigationabout their ancestry.
I find it's very hardto do it with Chinese.
(03:57):
But I know it's like all thoserecords are kept so like tight.
It's like no one's business, you know?
Oh, it's so hard.
My family tree for like schoolprojects were always so sparse because
there was just nothing to report on.
I think, I'm pretty sure.
I'm pretty sure for a school project I hadto like, make up my grandparents' names
(04:18):
'cause nobody would tell me anything.
Mm-Hmm.
. Mm-Hmm.
. When the, I shouldn't tell youthis, I put it out in public, but,
uh, but when I was doing my mastersin, in counseling, we had to do a
genogram, which is like family tree.
Mm-Hmm.
, some of the information were made up.
Mm-Hmm.
(04:39):
because, because my parents had died.
Where do you get that info?
Yeah, you don't know who to ask.
No, no.
So I'd love to hear about yourjourney, you know, childhood, career.
I know you were a ghostwriter.
(05:01):
Yeah.
So I feel like my childhood isvery typical for, uh, you know,
um, first generation, uh, wherethere's this expectation that.
You know, I have to be a doctor ora lawyer or an architect, something
safe and stable and high achieving.
And so even though as a little girl, Ihad always had this passion for writing.
(05:24):
I loved being creative.
I loved art and theater and musicand writing, and I love languages.
I love learning languages.
And it was very clear.
In hindsight, it was very clear.
Like I was very arts, humanities leading,but because I had that expectation of, Oh,
I have to be a doctor and have somethingstable and provide for the family and
(05:45):
have something secure for myself, Iforced myself to take the sciences
and maths, even though I was terrible.
I was, I know there's the stereotype ofAsians being good at math, but I was.
Oh God, I was a troubled child.
I, yeah, me too.
Me too.
Right.
Um, bless my, bless my math teacher.
(06:07):
Cause she was so patient with me, butI just could not grasp the concepts,
but eventually it came to a pointwhere I had to go off to college and
that big decision of what do you wantto do with the rest of your life?
And I made the split decision.
Like, okay.
I.
I know if I'm being honest withmyself, I'm not going to make it
through, um, a Bachelor of Science.
(06:28):
I'm not going to make itthrough medical school.
My, I have passion there, andI think it's very interesting,
but those aren't my strengths.
So I decided to go intopolitics, because I always found
that incredibly fascinating.
And, um, I, I finished my Bachelorof Arts in Political Science
from McKinney University, whichis actually out in Nova Scotia.
(06:50):
And I had the intention of going intolaw, because that's the second safe thing.
I hadn't quite broken out of that mold.
Um, but I took my LSAT exam andwalked out, and I was like, Hmm, I
don't know if this is for me either.
So I wound up for a year, just workinga bank at a job, as a teller at a bank.
(07:11):
That's it.
And after that year, again, I was like,Oh, no, oh, no, this isn't for me.
Like, I was just very 20 year old crisis.
Like, this is I have to choose wisely.
And I don't know if I can dothis for the rest of my life.
So on a whim, I decided to look for awriting job just on like an online forum.
(07:34):
And I happened to find someone whowas looking for a, an article writer.
And I had no experience and theywere like, can we see your portfolio?
So don't tell anyone Imade up my portfolio.
I did a bunch of research,like, Oh, what does.
What does a mommy blog article look like?
And so I put together fake articles justto prove that I could write, because they
(07:54):
don't really care about your credentials.
Um, as long as you canproduce the content.
And that's how I landed myfirst job as a ghostwriter.
And eventually one thing led toanother, a client referred me to
another client and they were lookingfor a romance ghostwriter and they
were like, can you write romance books?
Again, no, I hadn't done it.
But I'm a, I'm a fake ituntil you make it kind of gal.
(08:16):
And I was like, yeah, sure.
Hold on.
Let me, let me show you asample, which I whipped up in
like an hour and they liked it.
So I landed my very first book joband one thing led to another and
next six years, I was a professionalghostwriter, uh, specifying in romance.
(08:36):
I felt like I was talking forever.
I'm so sorry.
Apologize.
I love it.
I have two questions.
How did the trainees parents react toyou choosing creative versus sciences?
Ooh, okay.
I feel like
(08:57):
they never explicitly statedthey were disappointed.
I feel like they're,they're not disappointed.
It more, I understand that it comesfrom a place of like, they just want
to make sure that I'll be okay and thatI'll be, you know, comfortable in life.
Um, but I think they're, I definitelysensed their hesitation when I was
like, I don't know if I want tobe a doctor or a lawyer anymore.
(09:18):
And they're like, okay,well, what do you want to do?
I don't know.
And so obviously theywere quite apprehensive.
But once I started really gettinginto the rhythm of what it was to
be a ghostwriter producing work.
Basically paying my bills ontime every month and eating okay.
They were like, okay, um, clearlyyou're passionate about this.
You're, um, you know, I'm an authorfirst, but I'm a businesswoman second.
(09:42):
Like I knew how to take care of things.
Um, and so once they saw that I was okay,they were like, all right, good for you.
I'm not that they would ever saythat, but I can tell it's in there.
It's in their eyes, you know,Well, they must be so proud of you
with your, with your book, the,uh, They're so casual about it.
I'm sure they are proud,but they're like, Oh, good.
(10:05):
They're books in stores.
So I saw it the other day.
Typical Chinese parents.
Oh, yeah, they're, they're very, Iknow they're proud, but they're not.
Why it's so expressive?
It's okay.
It's fine.
I'm not, I'm not beat up about it.
(10:27):
I'm teasing ya.
It's funny when youshared the science part.
So, uh, I grew up in Singapore and whenI was in high school, uh, they split you
into the arts and the science stream.
Oh, interesting.
And arts means you take history,geography, you know, and the science
(10:49):
stream, you've got to do physics, uh,chemistry, and my mother in her wisdom
thought I should go into science becausesame thing, you should be a doctor.
I need a doctor in the family.
And she put me into the sciencestream for three years, the
last three years of high school.
But what my mom didn't expectwas that year, the art teacher
(11:13):
complained to the principal.
She was sick of theart student taking art.
She wants the science student to take art.
Interesting.
Yeah, and so we decided, so all thescience students, now we have to take art.
And I went home and I said to my mom,about six months in, I'm like, What do
(11:38):
you think if I decide to be an artist?
Because I think I was good at it.
And my mom was like, I would disown you.
No.
I mean, I don't think she would havedone it, but she was like, no, no.
Very clear disapproval.
(11:59):
Ouch.
Ouch.
But I didn't go into science either.
Mm.
Sometimes you just, you haveto, you just know, you know
if something is meant for you.
But it takes courage tolisten to it, you know.
Absolutely.
It wasn't an easy choice, no.
No, I bet not.
(12:21):
Would you share a bit, for peoplewho are thinking, you know, maybe
writing is something I want topursue, how does a, what, how does
the job of a ghost writer look like?
It's, it's very, very interesting.
I was surprised when I first, um, wascontracted to write my first book, there
(12:43):
is a whole world, a whole industry outthere, kind of, not in the shadows,
because it's perfectly legitimate,but there's a whole world out there.
There's a whole industry out theredesigned, it's, it's basically, you
know, you've got the client and they puttogether a team of editors, copywriters,
(13:04):
uh, ghost writers specifically, and,um, graphic artists to create the
image, quote unquote, of an author.
And so it's especially prevalent onAmazon where, you know, they have
Amazon, um, KDP, where you can, youknow, Self published, basically.
It's very prominent there.
(13:24):
That's the, that's the sortof field that I was in anyway.
But there's also like, um, ghostwriterswho are hired by big publishers to write
on behalf of specifically like memoirs,a lot of those celebrity memoirs.
You know, I'm not saying that thecelebrities didn't write themselves.
But, you know.
I'm not saying, I'm not saying anything.
(13:48):
I put about, I put that before.
Yeah.
Um, but in my particular expertise, youknow, I actually worked alongside several
other ghostwriters and we all, were thesame quote unquote author, so that way,
once I wrote a book, the next ghostwritercould write the next book in the series,
and then the next ghostwriter could writethe next one, and so that way, the client
(14:12):
always ensured that they had contentcoming out month after month after month.
They're able to producein really fast order.
quantities that way, um, to retaintheir readership, basically.
And so, you know, I'm not, I can'tsay who, what projects I wrote or what
names I wrote for, but it's, there'san entire system, um, behind the
(14:35):
scenes sort of putting these books out.
And unless you're looking for it, it's,It's as though they are real people.
Like, you can't tell.
It's so seamless and well done.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
So in my innocence about thiswhole thing, as ghostwriter,
your name doesn't go on the book.
(14:57):
Nope.
I, I basically, I write the book and,uh, they pay me a flat fee per word.
And once it's done, I give thebook to them and that's it.
I clap my hands free and Imove on to the next project.
Um, and a part of, a part of me is like, Iknow a lot of people like, oh, that sucks.
You did all that work and you getno recognition, but that's the
(15:18):
job and you kind of go into thatknowing it, but I'm definitely
happy to be writing for myself now.
Um, but I see it as a, as a greatIt was a fantastic opportunity for
me to work on my craft and, youknow, practice, practice, practice.
So it was twofold for me.
I get, I get to pay my bills and I getto do what I love and get better at it.
(15:39):
And eventually I puttogether my very first book.
So a last question aboutbeing a ghostwriter then.
So if I hire you to ghostwrite,do the ideas come from me
or does it come from you?
So it depends, it's actually, uh, whatwe did, it was, it sort of depended
(16:00):
on the client, on the project.
Some clients that I workedwith already had the idea, they
already had an outline for me.
They knew what characters theywanted, what tropes they wanted,
how long, relatively what thestoryline wanted to look like.
And all I had to do was takethat outline and write it.
But, uh, some of my other clientswere like, we'll pay you a little
(16:20):
extra, but can you come up withthe storyline and then write it?
I'm like, yeah, sure.
Um, so I feel like, you know,a lot of, those projects where
I had to come up from scratch.
I don't feel like I'm, you know,some people would, would worry, Oh,
you're giving up your own ideas.
What if you want to, wantedto use them for yourself?
(16:41):
But the genre specifically in whichI was writing, they had me writing a
lot of like raunchy, raunchy stuff.
And I feel like A lot of those ideasI used for those books, I don't
think I would ever really touchon in my own work, in the, in the
projects that mean something to me.
So it's okay.
They can have the really, um,spicy, um, they can have that.
(17:04):
It's okay.
I'm all right with it.
I'm just giggling in the background.
Um, oh, wow.
I, I feel like
this is similar in a lot of We don'tget to see the behind the scene.
You know, and I find, and I knowghostwriter is not that hush hush
(17:28):
anymore because I, I've heard a lot ofsome celebrities with Manoa, they, they
do admit that they have ghostwritersand some well known authors too.
But I feel like, oh, that's just,you guys are doing all the hard work.
So,
(17:52):
the creativity part of it.
I would love to hear more, like do youhave, I know some artists, writers have
a certain time where they are the mostcreative and they write, they go, they
lock themselves up in a hotel room for20 days to write their first draft.
(18:15):
How does, So, I don't know if thisis too much information, but all of
my ideas for my books come to me whenI'm shampooing my hair in the shower.
I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
It's just the meditative kind ofmindless activity of washing my hair
(18:36):
that allows my brain to wander andsuddenly an idea for a story will pop in.
I, I don't, I've nevergone on a writing retreat.
But when I, because I've workedfrom home for so long that like
my office space is just my, whereI'm most comfortable to write.
I, I wake up in the morning andthe first thing I do is go to my
(18:56):
office and, and just, Start writing.
Um, and I'll, I, my husband getsvery upset because he's like,
you have no work life balance.
You literally get up, you write all day.
And it's not write all day, like,consistently throughout the day.
It comes in spurts.
And I should get better at it.
I should set hours for myself,because I literally, I'm so
(19:17):
sedentary, it's bad for my health.
Um, but I just, I spend all day at mycomputer writing and jotting down ideas.
And even that dinner time I'll havea notepad because sometimes ideals
will come to me there and I'll justwrite something down real quick.
Um, creativity kind of strikes mewhenever, usually when I'm doing the
(19:39):
most mundane things, so it's alwaysimportant to have a notepad on hand.
Have you ever experienced like a block?
Oh yeah, oh definitely.
I um, for my next next book, soafter The Last Dragon of the East, my
book coming out in 2025, it's calledThe Legend of the Nine Tailed Fox.
(20:01):
I'm actually working on the edits now.
I, um, was stuck on thatbook for maybe six months.
Um, I had written maybe 14 differentversions of that story before I landed
on the version I, I finally finished.
Um, cause I just, I think a part of mejust wasn't satisfied with how, how the
story began, the direction I was takingit, these little things that just as
(20:26):
an author make me feel like it's offand therefore I need to start again.
So I've definitely hadpretty bad blocks where.
It's more of a me thing where Ifeel dissatisfied with the work
and so it just, I can't continueto be working on that project.
Is the, is the, the onethat's coming out in 2025.
(20:50):
Is it a continuation of theLast Dragon of the East.
So it's, it's a standalone.
Um, the Last Dragon of the East isalso a standalone, but they're sort
of, they exist within the same.
universe, the same world.
So there are callbacks, there arereferences to one another, but you're
able to read both by themselves.
(21:10):
I think the, the Nine Tailed Foxtakes place 5, 000 years before
the Last Dragon of the East.
So they're, they're totally separatestories, um, but you can still
enjoy, you know, the locations,the settings, the references.
And, uh, I just don't have the staminaright now to write like a series.
I've never done it before.
So I felt like this was a good way ofPaying homage to the first project while
(21:33):
still creating something brand new.
It just popped into my head.
I'm thinking, oh, if that book is5, 000 years, and the two books
are separate, you could at somepoint do a series with that 5, 000.
I mean, maybe.
I'm leaving it wide open.
(21:53):
But you know, for now,it's just these two.
I'm just saying, no pressure.
You know, I'm just dropping it.
You know, I love your book.
So I'm just like, Oh, that'slike 5, 000 years, my friend.
I can slot something in.
Yeah, no problem.
No pressure, pressure.
(22:15):
When I'm curious, I do want to talkabout the last Dragon of the East.
Before I ask you that, I'm curiouswhen you think about your life, you
know, has Has anyone contributed tothat creativity, like, to, because
from the sound of it, my God, you'retalented in this to be able to write.
(22:38):
Oh, I'm blessed.
Oh, thank you.
Oh my gosh, I feel like.
Obviously, my, my teachers in schoolwho recognized, you know, you should
be in the humanities, like what areyou doing, just struggling in math
and calculus and, and chemistry.
I had a, my high schoolEnglish teacher, Mrs.
(22:59):
Flinterman, I still remember her.
I think she just, you know, She wasjust such a wonderful inspiration
to have in my life because shewas so sweet and supportive and,
you know, she loved everything Iwrote and so that's always a boost.
Um, so that was definitely an earlyinfluence, but I think now, you know,
I have a lot of authors who are friendsand I get to read their works early
(23:22):
and just get inspired by just theirtalent to, you know, to witness it.
Um, as it's being written is always fun,but in a more immediate sense, I feel like
I have my husband to thank because when Iwas first starting trying to get my foot
in the door of ghostwriting, he reallysupported me, you know, emotionally,
mentally, financially, to help takethat And That load off my shoulders so
(23:46):
I could just focus on writing and if itnot for him, I probably would never have
been able to launch into this direction.
Um, yeah, that's me being sappy.
Hey sappy, go, go, do yoursappy, have a good day.
Having a good partnermakes a huge difference.
Yeah, it does.
(24:07):
When I see you in real life,we'll get sad together.
My man's pretty good too.
We'll swap stories.
We'll swap stories.
So do you think you will stayin the fantasy romance genre?
I feel like
I'm already kind of leaning into,I feel like, I'm not traditionally
(24:33):
contemporary rom com, not traditionallyfantasy, because I like, in my
fantasy specifically, just becauseI'm working on Ninetales Fox, I have
a very heavy, not only do I have aromance lean, but I also have a very
heavy horror lean, and so I like tocombine these little elements of that.
genres.
So it's, it's not necessarilystraight horror or straight romance.
(24:54):
It's a combination of everything.
Cause I think when it comes tofantasy, you have so much room to play
and create a world that's your own.
And I don't see why you should limityourself to one specific genre.
And if in truth, I'm not reallythinking about genre, I'm just
kind of going with the flow.
But, um, Yeah, so my, my fantasies tendto take a slightly darker lean, touch
(25:16):
on darker subjects, and my rom comstend to deal with, you know, they're not
always funny, there, there's brevity,there's, um, there are issues that I
try to tackle and explore in, throughmy characters, um, but in, ultimately,
in an uplifting, light hearted way.
(25:36):
Um, so readers don't walk awaylike, Oh, I'm depressed now.
I thought that was supposed to, supposedto be a rom com, but I like to try it
to strike a balance, um, in my genres.
So, I don't know.
I'm not going to say never say never.
I might venture into different genreseventually, but for now I'm quite,
I'm just, you know, I'm just starting.
(25:57):
These are my first two books.
So we'll, we'll see.
What the future has in store.
Yeah.
And I, when you said that, um, thereare some issues that you bring up with
the characters and your book, you know,knife seasonings and a dash of love.
You did that because I was like,she's touching on subject that.
(26:17):
And, uh, I shouldn't admit this,but I did, I did flip to the last
chapter to see how the two characters,whether they figure things out or not.
My husband always teased me, he'slike, are you cheating again?
I'm like, but I have to know.
I have to know the suspense.
Yeah.
Either I email herdirectly or I need to know.
(26:38):
So I'm just flipping to the last chapter.
. The Last Dragon of the East.
Tell us about the book.
So, The Last Dragon of the East, withoutspoilers, is about a young man named
Sai, who has the ability to see redthreads of fate, which is a East Asian,
(27:01):
but specifically in this case a Chinesemyth, of this invisible red thread of
magic that connects you to your soulmate.
And He, he can, he can see these threadsand he likes to help couples come
together as sort of like a side hustle.
Um, but the thing is his ownthread is gray and fraying,
and he's not too sure why.
(27:22):
So after, um, he has an accidentalrun in with a pair of dragon
scales, he stumbles upon thisreally rare medicine for his mother.
He's sort of embroiled into this.
And he has this devious plot tohunt down the last dragon of the
east by order of the emperor.
And along the way he goes on this massivejourney across the lands to not only
(27:46):
save his mother, but to find this dragon.
And!
along the way, he may or maynot find his, uh, his soulmate.
So it's a love story, it's anadventure, it's, my friends tell me
it's heartbreaking, but in a hopefulway, because it does involve, you
know, love across lifetimes, and that'salways something very special to me.
(28:10):
Anne is coming out inthe Year of the Dragon.
I know.
I realized that when I firstgot the announcement and I
was like, this is good luck.
I'm not superstitious, but I'm a littlestitious and I think that's great.
Would you say, would you sharewhat your Chinese animal is?
So, it depends on which calendaror whose calendar you use
(28:31):
because I'm an in between.
So I'm either a dog or I'meither a year of the board,
but it depends on who you ask.
Okay.
But mom says I'm a pig,so we'll go with that.
Hey, both are goodfriends with a dragon, so.
Ooh.
Yeah, that's so great.
(28:52):
How much research do youhave to do with every book?
So, for Las Vegas specifically, Idid a lot because, like I said at
the beginning, you know, my parentsdon't really talk about their past.
They don't talk about their own families,they don't talk about their upbringing.
And so, at some point I got reallycurious, like, oh, what, What stories
did you hear growing up as kids?
(29:12):
What, because, you know, growing uphere in Canada, I'm very familiar
with Greek mythology, Roman mythology,Norse mythology, but I know very
little about Chinese mythology,which is a shame because I feel
like I should know as a ChineseCanadian, I should connect somehow.
But when I asked my parents, theydon't, they didn't really, they
kind of avoided the question.
(29:33):
They're like, oh, he won't know.
I'm like, I'm askingbecause I want to know.
So I had to do research on my ownand I stumbled upon, you know, the
original tale of the Red Thread ofFate, you know, Chang'e and Houyi, um,
uh, the serpent, uh, the white snake.
The Legend of the White Snake, allof these myths and legends that they
(29:53):
would have grown up with, and I'msure my grandparents would have too.
And so in many ways this project startedas sort of a way to connect, even
though they made it very difficult.
Um, and so a lot of the research thatwent into this book was basically
mostly just about the myths andkeeping as true as possible to them,
uh, without twisting them too much.
(30:15):
Cause I, what I was trying to do wasuse these myths as like building blocks.
So they exist as truth within the world,but Sai's story is sort of his own thing.
And so I feel like hopefully I've weavedthem together in a way that makes it
an homage to everyone who's come beforeme, but also something brand new for,
for readers down the line to enjoy.
(30:38):
Yeah.
And I, I have to say I'm so.
grateful for authors like you,like Asian authors who are writing
these books because, look, I'm alot older than you, but since, and
I've been in Canada for 30 years.
At that time, there were not many booksthat would talk about these folk tales
(31:03):
that, you know, and, um, Su Lin Tan does agreat job of writing books like that too.
And I'm just, I eat these stories upeven though they are fiction, right.
But I love them.
I love reading about them becauselike you say, you infuse some of
what the stories are that we know.
(31:25):
Yeah.
For me, it's just, I'm so glad thatthere are stories out there and like
with books oftentimes I'll get extraand then I'll put it in the Little
library in the neighborhood, becauseI, one of my things I want people to
know that these stories exist thatthese authors like yourself exist.
(31:51):
Yeah, I mean I said the intentionin 2020 that most of the books
I read will be by pop authors.
Especially Asian authors, becauseI, I believe we need to, we
need to support each other.
For sure.
Definitely.
Uh, what do you do for fun?
(32:12):
Oh, gosh, I write.
I'm, like I said, I'm very boring.
I have no work life balance.
But, um, if I had to say, I've pickedup recently, um, painting my books.
So it's still very nerdy, but I'lltake, I'll take my books and, um,
because a lot of places sell limitededitions, but I can never like get
(32:33):
them in time because they go so fast.
So I've started painting the edgeswith my own designs or just coloring
them in, which is very relaxing.
I'm not very good.
I'm a very poor author and some mightargue that I'm ruining them because my
art is atrocious, but it's a lot of fun.
And, um, So I've taken up painting, butI've also, I'm really big on kickboxing.
(32:54):
I have like a little gymdownstairs in my basement.
So whenever I'm a little frustrated,I'll take it out on the bag.
Um, oh, and I'm really into gardening.
I've got a little, I've got alot of plants and a lot of a
little herb garden on my balcony.
So that's fun.
I read somewhere that you, you'retrying not to kill all your plants.
(33:14):
Oh, it's not going well.
They're, uh, I must bedoing something wrong.
'cause they don't like me at all.
They're having a hard time.
Oh yeah.
It's, it's real bad.
I, oh my God.
I get, I get it.
I'm only laughing because I get it.
So my, I have an older sister.
Mm.
She's the one with the green thumb.
Mm.
(33:35):
In the family.
Like she, so she, she in inheritedthat from my maternal grandmother.
She can't make anything.
Flower that is not supposed to flower.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
I have a jade plan.
Mm-Hmm.
That I kind of have to buya new one every two years.
Because I killed it.
And Jade plant, you'renot supposed to kill.
They're like, No, they'resupposed to be very difficult.
(33:55):
Yeah.
Oops.
plant killer.
Hello.
Terrible.
just terrible.
Uh, hey, I saw that videoof you painting your book.
Yeah!
On Instagram.
Are you using watercolor?
Uh, acrylic.
(34:15):
Acrylic.
Watercolor, uh, the fear is thatit'll bleed into the pages, so, um,
you have to be very careful abouthow much moisture you're using.
It's, it's, it's relaxing,but also stressful.
Because you don't want to ruin the pages.
the actual integrity of the book.
I can't wait to see it, because Iwas watching the video, I was like,
she didn't post the end result.
(34:37):
Oh, well, I'm just very shy, becauseI'm like, I don't think it's very good.
It's just, it's just for me.
Like, I'll show the process, but the endstuff is, my art is, uh, questionable.
Artists are the artists on themselves.
Of course we are.
I'm just saying.
How much of a perfectionist are youwith, with your, with your writing?
(35:01):
Oh gosh, I'm, I'm like, I'm a recoveringperfectionist, but it's not going well.
Um, no, I, I definitely have acomplex about the quality of my work.
I was supposed to submit my editsfor Nine Tailed Fox like a couple
of days ago, but I decided, no, no,no, wait, I can make this better.
And so I'm on like my seventhround of edits and I'm still not
(35:23):
happy, but eventually I'm goingto have to just let it go and be
like, this is the best I can do.
Um.
Yeah, I just feel like I'ma, I'm a big perfectionist.
I it's something that kind ofhas been with me my whole life.
And I feel like it's just the atmosphereI grew up in was very competitive.
So,
(35:45):
but I imagine it must be so hardthough, because you can add it and
add it and add it and it's like,Eventually you have to let it go.
But that's always hard because you'relike, no, I could have made it better.
I don't know.
But it's a, you know what, I'veadopted this practice of like, you can
always improve for the next book, youknow, so do your best for this one.
(36:07):
Hear what people have to say,learn where you can improve and
just do your best for next time.
I have to remind myself.
My heart is pounding just at the thoughtbecause I'm like, I, I'm, I know I'm
gonna be really, really anal about this.
I so I make pottery for fun.
I'm a hobby and I always tell peopleyou have a perfectionist tendencies
(36:31):
or control issue, learn pottery.
Yeah, because it teaches you to let go.
It doesn't.
It is what it is.
Well, it is what it is because so muchof the process, you figure out really,
really early, you have no control.
, yeah, you can do your best, butat some point maybe the thing will
(36:52):
crack, maybe it will, the colorthat you think it's gonna be good
comes out and it's like, hmm, yeah.
So you gotta give up.
What are you, so you areworking on the book in 2025.
Any other things of workingon that you want to share?
(37:13):
Any projects?
Uh, yeah.
I, I don't have a lotof information on it.
So, um, I've just submitteda new book proposal to my
editors at Random House Canada.
It's a new contemporarydramedy, I would say.
(37:34):
Um, and that's all I have.
I'm able to divulge.
They haven't told me if they want it yet.
I think they get a little bit moretime to decide, but it's a good
sign they haven't said outright no.
You know, so I'm hoping, I'm praying,I'm hoping I get some good news
because that would be really great.
But hopefully I haveanother romcom in the works.
(37:54):
And I've got ideas for a newfantasy series, kind of percolating,
but I haven't quite figuredout how, how I want to tell it.
So, it's just an idea.
It's there.
It's floating.
Cool.
But for now, I'm just focusingon my recent book launch, uh,
Last Dragon and Nightingale Fox.
(38:14):
A couple more questions for you.
What do you wish peopleknow about being an author?
Um,
we're sensitive.
All creatives are a little sensitive.
But you know, I'm just always so happywhen people when they pick up my book
(38:34):
and they're excited and they they tagme and they're like, this was so good.
I read it in a day.
It just makes me so happy.
It makes me The whole day I'm just alittle giddy because I'm like, Oh my
gosh, someone out there, someone outthere who I don't know, took the time to
reach out and say that they love the book.
And that's just such an amazing feeling.
Um, authors also have verypoor posture and bad backs.
(38:59):
Maybe that's just me, actually.
Um,
and we authors, authors do what theydo because they, they have stories
to tell and, you know, What theyhave to say is important and, you
know, go in and read the book, havefun, take away the lessons you, that
(39:19):
really resonate with you and yeah.
What advice would you giveyourself when you were 20?
So hard.
Ugh, hitting me with the hard questions.
Um, I'm sorry.
(39:41):
It's okay.
What advice would I give myself?
I could, I can think of one.
What's yours?
For you, it would be walk awayfrom the sciences, walk away.
I know!
If I had known earlier, I probablywould have gone into writing
so much faster, but oh well.
I think maybe,
(40:04):
well my dad has a saying, do whatyou love and the money will follow.
So I feel like if I told myself toput a little more faith in that.
Like I do now, um, I think I wouldbe a lot less stressed as a person.
It's true, isn't it?
It really is.
It's true, it's true.
(40:25):
Uh, last question for you.
Any advice for if you meet ayoung person that says, Oh, I
really want to be an author.
Any advice for them?
That's a strange I have so much advice,but I feel like I can't condense it.
(40:45):
You know, uh, My first major one,specifically with regards to writing
technique, is to outline, becauseI feel like a lot of young writers,
you know, there's a discoursewithin the writing community.
Are you a plotter or are you a pantser?
You know, are you, are you planningeverything out or are you going
off the seat of your pants?
(41:06):
And both are perfectly valid.
I, I'm, I'm personally a hybrid ofboth, but I feel like when you're a new
writer and you're just starting out, Ithink it's really important for you to
at least have a, a roadmap so that youcan get from chapter one to the end.
Um, because when you're in a spyingauthor, the first thing you need to
(41:26):
do is finish the book before you canworry about finding an agent, getting a
book deal, you need to actually finishthe project and I feel like having
an outline to at least follow along.
If.
You decide, oh, let'stake it in this direction.
At least you still have a roadmap to referback to, to get from point A to point B.
So that's my advice from atechnical perspective, but
(41:49):
I feel like from a more, um,
overreach overarching perspective,surround yourself with
people who will support you.
Um, be that.
Friends or family.
Sometimes friends and family aren'tthe best, um, at giving advice when it
(42:10):
comes to writing because I feel like alot of them will be like, no, no, no,
it's good when it could use some work.
I recommend, um, you know, go, go toyour local library, join writing clubs,
uh, join online forums, make friendswho are also authors, uh, who are also
writers, um, so you can basically sharein the love of your craft, because
(42:30):
I feel like your best ideas, my, uh,you know, knives got off the ground.
When I was writing live season ofDashalove, I would go to my writing
friends and ask them for advice.
Like, what do you think of this dialogue?
What do you think of this character arc?
Is this scene too raunchy?
You know, and they're justa great resource to have and
they're wonderful support.
And that's, that's a twopronged advice for you.
(42:54):
It's really long winded.
I'm sorry.
Don't apologize.
I think that's great advicebecause there's so much.
For the listeners, the last Dragon ofthe East is on pre-order right now.
Well, maybe by the time this episodecomes out, we'll be, it'll be out.
It'll be out.
It comes out October 8th and Knifeseasoning and Dash of Love is
available wherever books are sold.
(43:17):
And I love that book.
Thank you, Katrina.
Thank you so much for having me.
Well, what a greatconversation with Katrina.
Her new book.
The last dragon of theEast is out on October 8th.
I hope you enjoy this episode and.
(43:39):
Please remember to like subscribeand share this podcast with
anyone you think will enjoy it.
have a beautiful day.
See you next time.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
(44:00):
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapetersen.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
(44:20):
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
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