September 6, 2024 • 50 mins
In this episode, Cherry Mo, author and illustrator of the picture book Home In A Lunchbox, discusses her experience of moving from Hong Kong to America and how it inspired her work. The conversation covers Cherry's creative journey, cultural integration, and struggles with anxiety.
We also talk about mental health awareness, the power of community, and the significance of food in Cherry's culture.
Follow Cherry on Instagram
Bio:
Cherry Mo is the author-illustrator of her debut picture book, HOME IN A LUNCHBOX, published in June 2024 from Penguin Workshop (Penguin Random House). This book is inspired by Cherry’s personal experience of moving from Hong Kong to America at the age of ten. HOME IN A LUNCHBOX is "An Indie Next List Pick" for July and August, a Junior Library Guild Gold Standard Selection, and garnered starred reviews from Publisher Weekly and School Library Journal. Through writing and illustrating, she hopes to bring young readers a sense of comfort and belonging. She draws inspiration from her personal experiences and Chinese-American background. Cherry has a second picture book coming from Penguin Workshop (details are to be announced). Besides her creative work, Cherry is actively involved in a nonprofit organization focusing on self-awareness. She translates her practices of self-awareness into her author-illustrator work, and she hopes to continue creating meaningful stories that inspire children to understand themselves and assist others. See more of her work on www.cherrymo.com, or on X and Instagram @hellocherrymo. ***Community for Asian Women Starts September 30th
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hi, everyone.
I hope you're doing well.
Welcome to another episode ofconversations with your Chinese Auntie.
Before I introduce.
My next guest.
I want to remind all of you,amazing people that my online
offering community for Asian women.
(00:25):
Early bird pricing and September 8th.
We meet for six weeksstarting on September 30th.
The link is in my bio and on my website,Patricia Peterson, P E T E R S E N.
Dot CA.
And you can also find moreinformation on Instagram.
(00:50):
My guest today is Cherry Mo.
And.
After this conversation, I feel like.
I've known Cherry for a long time.
Cherry is the author illustrator of herdebut picture book Home In A Lunchbox.
This book is inspired by Cherry'spersonal experience of moving from
(01:12):
Hong Kong to America at age of 10.
We talk about that in the episode.
We also talk about Cherry'screative work self-awareness and
her journey with her mental health.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
(01:38):
Good morning, Cherry.
Morning, Patricia.
Thank you for saying yes.
I'm so excited to have you here.
for inviting me.
This is awesome.
My Chinese auntie.
So first question of the podcast isalways, please introduce yourself,
where you're from, what you do,anything that shows up for you.
(02:04):
Sure.
My name is Cherry Mo.
I'm an author, illustratorof picture books.
My debut picture book justcame out in June of this year.
So just two months ago.
So it's been very exciting.
The book is called Home in a Lunchbox andit's inspired by my personal experience of
(02:25):
moving from Hong Kong to the US when I was10 years old and that's been really just
A very, very, um, lasting memory of mine.
It's just the feeling of, wow.
It's just kind of felt like I was ploppedinto a strange place and not knowing the
language and now, uh, all grown up andI see a lot of kids are going through
(02:49):
that no matter immigrants or not, um,just, um, maybe feelings of loneliness
of wanting a sense of belonging.
Um, so.
Anyway, so that's my first book, and Ihave a second one coming out, um, and
both are from Penguin Random House,and the second one is coming out 2026.
(03:09):
Um, so besides being an authorillustrator, I volunteer at a
non profit that focuses on selfreflection, um, introspection, so
that's been a huge part of my workas well, as an artist and an author.
How to I think a lot of kids are goingthrough a lot of things internally.
So how to meld the two together.
(03:31):
And so I really want All of my booksto be able to benefit kids in that
way where they can look within.
Um, and when I know that when Ifound out you're a therapist, I was
like, wow, this is amazing that youreached out to me because this is
something that I find very important.
You know, the introspectionand understanding oneself.
(03:52):
Um, so that's a big part of my life.
Um, I am Chinese American.
Um, my parents are from Taiwan and I grewup in Hong Kong until I was 10 years old.
And so my pronouns are sheand her, um, and yeah, I think
that's, that's pretty much it.
Oh, thank you.
How did your parents endedup in Hong Kong from Taiwan?
(04:16):
Yeah, I think, um, mainly asmy dad, he was working there.
Do you still have, uh,relatives back in Taiwan?
I do.
I do.
I have an uncle and aunt,you know, their family there.
My relatives are in the U.
S.
now.
Oh, okay.
(04:37):
So have you been back to Taiwan?
I haven't been back for like, maybelast time was like, maybe like 13
years ago, um, back to Taiwan andto Hong Kong, even longer than that,
maybe even 20 years or something.
I'm not sure.
Uh, or 18, maybe 18.
Any desire to go back?
(04:59):
I do, but just not quitesure when that would happen.
Especially Taiwan.
Taiwan's very nice.
Hong Kong's nice too.
Yeah, but maybe because myparents are Taiwanese, so I
feel a closeness with Taiwan.
Yeah, I saw a thing on the newsyesterday morning here that Taiwan
is the top destination for Gen Zs.
(05:25):
Hmm.
That's great.
I haven't been to Taiwanfor 30 years, maybe.
Wow.
Yeah.
Do you miss Taiwan?
You know, . I was so young when I went,'cause I was born in Singapore, so it
was easy to go to Taiwan to visit the,to be honest, the only thing I remembered
(05:46):
about Taiwan was that the rice is so good.
Yeah, I think, yeah, definitely.
I can relate to that.
And it's good rice, you know it.
It's true.
I would love if you share yourjourney to how you became a author,
(06:08):
illustrator, the creative side of it.
Yeah, definitely.
My journey, it's beenquite a journey really.
And this makes me see like, wow, nomatter, you know, we see a lot of people
maybe getting, not just books, butjust in their careers in general, like
really it takes so much to get to whereeverybody is like, um, so I definitely
(06:31):
had my own ups and downs, um, There wasa period of time, actually, that actually
didn't do art, didn't do art for years.
Yeah, and the reason was at thattime, just was pursuing a creative
career as an artist and somehow juststarted to build up a lot of pressure.
(06:52):
A lot of inner pressure, a lot of anxiety,a lot of self doubt, and even though I
was doing just fine, but maybe, I don'tknow if you agree, that a lot of times
we're really, we're our biggest enemy.
And so it kind of, you know,really hit a huge roadblock for
some time where I actually stoppeddoing art for a number of years.
(07:15):
Um, and so at that time, then I thoughtthat was the end of my creative journey.
You know, that's it.
Um, I kind of just didn't kind oflost that, not kind of, I really
lost that spark, um, and towards art.
And the reason why artists are artistsprobably because we love what we do.
But for a period of time, I just reallylost that passion and that spark.
(07:38):
And I think that was smotheredby a lot of self doubt and
anxiety and a lot of confusion.
So anyway.
Interestingly, um, my mother, she'slike, why don't you try again?
You know, you can try a picture book.
Have you thought about picture book?
And I was like, picture book, not really.
And there was mainly just so muchresistance to give it a try again,
(08:00):
because it was such a huge setback for me.
Um, but, I often share the story.
I was just taking a walk at themall, um, and just saw an art store,
walked into the art store, and theowner was actually, is actually an
author illustrator for picture books.
(08:21):
And so he had all his books displayedas paintings or artworks that he was
selling and I started talking to him.
I was like, Oh, this is in my mind.
It's like, this is really serendipitous.
Like my mom just suggested this and Ihappened to walk into the store and have
this conversation with the professional.
Uh, his name is, uh, R Gregory Christie.
(08:42):
And recently we were inthe same art show together.
So it came full circle.
Um, But, um, so at the time I startedtalking to him, he shared a lot of
resources, talked about SCBWI, which isan organization, society of children's
book writers and illustrators.
Share with me a lot ofpodcasts, a lot of resources.
(09:04):
So I got started from there and thenso I had to really break through myself
to Cheer myself on and say try again,you know, um, of course with family
and friends encouragement, too So longstory short so from then then it's
like three and a half years later.
Um, so I went through During that threeand a half years, um, putting together
(09:28):
portfolio again, putting together abook dummy, um, finding agent, finding
publisher, et cetera, and found mywonderful agent, Emily Van Viek.
She found a wonderfulpublisher, Penguin Random House.
Um, I'm working withElizabeth Lee as my editor.
And so now the book is out.
(09:49):
So it's like, there's so much behindthe scenes, I believe for everybody.
Um, so much that every single personhas gone through, and I think looking
back, um, it's really made, I guessthe setbacks really made me who I am.
And I think that alsoapplies to everybody.
Like, the challenges make me theartist, the person that I am today.
(10:11):
And I really wouldn't have askedfor anything better, actually,
like throughout this whole journey.
So from struggling to believe inoneself and finding one's voice
and one's path to pushing throughand having the setbacks and pushing
through and just keeping on going.
And now I really love.
(10:32):
I love the work so much.
I love being an author illustrator.
It's so meaningful and getting to meetthe kids at the schools and seeing them
hold the book, you know, and so happyand talking to them and, and being
able to share a message to them thatmaybe things might be hard sometimes,
(10:54):
but you can do it, you know, you cando it and maybe you'll be even better
coming out of it, the difficulties.
So it's just been very, very meaningful.
Um, Yeah, so I guess that'san overview of my journey.
That's so great and I do want to talkabout the mental health piece in a bit,
(11:15):
but it just touches my heart when yousaid your mom encouraged you to look
at it again because In the Chineseculture, there's often this idea that
a lot of Chinese parents don't believein the arts and the creative because
they think that it doesn't make money.
How did your parents take it thatthat's the path you want to pursue?
(11:37):
Yeah, well, I guess in that way, I'mvery blessed that my mother is the
main influencer for me to be an artist.
Um, cause I grew up, me andmy sister, my sister and I, we
grew up watching my mom draw us.
and draw a lot of things.
And we're like amazed,like, wow, this is magic.
(11:57):
How did you do that?
Um, and also my, so my mom'sside, they're very, very artistic.
Um, my cousin is also a,actually a storyboard artist.
And so I grew up seeing, I thinkhe also paved the path in a way
because then my parents saw, oh,you can have a career, uh, from art.
So that opened up a lot.
(12:21):
That's awesome.
Is your mom an artist?
She was, um, she majoredin interior design.
Yeah.
And that, that also needsthe artistic creative mind.
Definitely.
To look at it.
Uh, so your book, Home in aLunchbox, I, when I read it, I was
(12:41):
like, I felt like just a sense ofrelief, you know, but I also felt
how, I also felt, I guess, how you felt.
Yeah.
In a sense of howdifficult it was to fit in.
When you first came to America,you don't have a lot of English but,
and the food was what helped youto feel a sense of air and love.
(13:09):
When those few days at school.
And I'd love for you to talk about whatyou remember in the beginning when you
first landed and the food and maybeeven what the food signifies to you,
the different food, like there's bao,there's dumplings, you know, the noodles.
(13:29):
And also, were you ever afraidthat your classmates would make
fun of the food, because that'swhat some people talked about too.
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, I'm like thinking back.
I think I, there was, there was a littlefear of others, how others will think
(13:52):
about me and my food and things like that.
And it's so interesting because ina way, now that I'm thinking back,
it's like, huh, that did happen.
You know, where I may have feltembarrassed or a little bit insecure.
And, but as I wrote this book, I waslike, Hey, maybe that's the message too.
It's like the love and the warmth and ourculture and home overpowers all of that.
(14:16):
Like that is.
Part of one's identity.
And that's kind of left aneven deeper impression in me.
It's like opening the lunchbox,no matter how I felt, but I know
there's so much love in it andthere's so much memories in the food.
Um, and so there were, I had both, Ihad both, but feeling the warmth from
the lunch and also feeling a little bit,uh, insecure being in a new environment.
(14:41):
Yeah.
But that lunchbox was the, was alot of times really reminded me.
That was the thing that reminded methat everything will be okay, you know,
you're loved, um, home is not far away.
Did your sister and you go to the sameschool, like the first few weeks,
(15:02):
did you have your sister with you?
Were you alone?
I was alone because, um, we're threeyears apart, so at the time I went
to, um, elementary school, and thenshe went, she was in middle school.
And then when I went to middle school,we happened to be in different middle
schools for some reason, um, And Ithink she transitioned to high school,
(15:22):
so we were rarely in the same school.
Um, and so that kind of adds to that too,like, okay, I'm really on my own now.
I guess just have topower through or learn.
At that time, didn't have the idea ofpowering through, but just felt very lost.
But looking back, I think that wasalso a very precious experience.
(15:45):
A feeling confused, so I can maybefind my way through it and yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Do you remember how longit took before you felt
okay.
Like, okay, in a sense that, okay, youcan go to school without feeling lonely
(16:10):
and without feeling like I stand out.
Mm hmm.
I think it took me until so from fifthgrade until maybe seventh grade, then I
started to actually get used to English.
So it took me two years.
Oh, what helped you in those twoyears, besides the lunch, lunchbox?
(16:33):
Did you make good friends?
Was there someone who stood out?
Um, well, actually in fifth gradewhen I was feeling very lost, just
like the character in the book.
Um, if you recall, there isa spread of June, the main
character, just like holding thelunchbox and walking into school.
(16:56):
Like, I think that scene is very impactfulfor a lot of people, including myself.
That's actually the pagethat started the whole book.
So I drew that first because thatwas that feeling at the time.
And then one of my illustrator friends,she's like, you should make this into
a book and I did and I'm so glad shesuggested that that I do, um, and
(17:18):
so in the beginning of, of school.
That's how I felt.
And then that went onfor for a period of time.
And actually, my first friend in America.
Her name's Amanda.
And, uh, I was just in thelibrary because didn't couldn't
talk to anybody and was shy.
I was very, very shy and quiet andjust withdrew myself and went to
(17:39):
the library and actually stumbledupon a, um, a few Chinese books.
Like I saw Chinese and I waslike, wow, that's awesome.
What is this?
So I picked it up, started reading it.
And so Amanda came and wedidn't talk before that.
And then she's like, You know, in Chinese,and I was like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
(18:00):
And so she really opened up,um, she really welcomed me.
Yeah, because, I mean, I think people,I mean, I think especially kids
would, will find strange, like thisgirl or boy never talks so quiet.
And it's easy to, to kind ofwant to distance from them.
(18:20):
And I think that is understandable,because kids don't understand that
maybe, or might not understand that.
Everybody comes from differentbackgrounds and stories.
So I think Amanda really helped me tostart to open up myself and make friends.
And so from that point on, um, I just,yeah, I started making some friends, but
(18:41):
they all spoke Chinese and Cantonese.
So in that way, still kind oflimited myself, but at least
started to open up oneself to,to make, make those connections.
And so up to seventh grade, that's when Istarted to make English speaking friends.
And so from that point on, just slowly,gradually, um, Adjusted oneself.
Are you still friends with Amanda?
(19:05):
I am!
Actually, I had a few book launch events.
Um, yeah, and I invited her.
I was like, you know this book, um,that character Rose was inspired by
you because she reached out when,when the main character June really
needed it and you reached out to me.
And so you are the inspirationfor that character.
(19:26):
I want to invite you to my book launch.
And so she actuallybrought her whole family.
So it's really, really special.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, that is so sweet.
That makes me teary.
Because when you look back, you're like,you'd never know, right in your life,
you never know who's gonna show up andjust shift things for you when things
(19:49):
are difficult, especially the guy thatyou met to the day that mom said, well,
maybe you should look at this again.
And then you go into thebookstore and say, what is this?
Yeah, that was really interesting.
I was like, is this happening right now?
As I'm talking to him, like in my mind,I was like, is this really happening?
It just seems so serendipitous.
And it's perfect.
(20:10):
He really helped me get started.
So maybe in a way it's meant to be.
Like all the challenges, all the setbacksjust redirected me, redirected me to a
path that maybe I was supposed to go into.
Well, and I, I often say this to, toclients and friends too, is that the
signs were there and you followed, youdidn't keep resisting because I think
(20:33):
sometimes we, we, we know what we need todo, but we are afraid and we're scared.
So even though the signs are so loud.
Well, I'm now we're justgonna know this is too hard.
I don't want to go with it.
But you, you followed and listen.
That's so great.
(20:54):
I love that sometimes a lot oftimes it really is one's own
fear, or one's own self doubt thatmakes us want to ignore the signs.
And so I'm really grateful actuallyduring that period of time when I
stepped away from art, then I did some,some inner work, you know, in that
nonprofit and, and just really wantedto, like, learn to be stronger and
(21:16):
learn to overcome whatever it is inside.
Um, yeah.
When you speak to children withyour book, you know when you talk
to them and you see them holding.
your book, would you sharewhat are some of the things
(21:36):
the kids have shared with you?
Yeah, definitely.
Um, let me think.
I think mainly kids just, theyjust really, um, somehow when
I do read alouds, they're kindof like glued to the pictures.
And they ask questions and they haven'treally like shared, you know, after the
(22:01):
storytime, like their exact thoughts,but during the storytime readings.
Then I just see likehow focused they were.
And I think from the book being almostwordless makes them even more focused.
Like they want to know what's going on.
Like they want to analyze all the details.
(22:24):
And when I asked them, like, haveyou, has anyone ever felt like this?
You know, with that spread, with the maincharacter holding her lunch box, box,
you know, alone walking into school and.
Every time everybody raises their hands.
So I feel like all ofthis is really beyond.
It's a universal experienceand all the kids can relate
(22:44):
to that feeling with feedback.
Actually, the main feedbackI've gotten are from parents.
And especially from dads for somereason, and a lot of dads would
message me and say your story reallymade me tear up, especially that
page with her walking into school.
(23:05):
And I was like, well, I didn't know Ihad that ability to make dads emotional.
I love it.
Um, so it shows is really beyondall ages and, um, Experiences
and backgrounds and ethnicity.
It's really a universal experience.
I'm curious, is it The dads who,who share that with you, do you know
(23:30):
if it's mainly because they wentthrough that or is it because they see
their daughters or their sons in it?
I think they went through it themselves.
So really tugged at theirheartstrings like, wow, this was me.
Yeah.
It was very special to hear that.
And, and they share that they wantto pass that on to their kids,
(23:54):
like to, to let them know that.
It's okay to be different.
Like maybe I've been through it and,and they share that this book has really
helped them to explain a lot of differentemotions to the children and the messages
and empathy, how to empathize with others.
And that is one of the core.
(24:16):
I'm hoping the core messages of thebook, not just that we belong, but
that we can also help others feellike they belong and empathize with
others and what they're going through.
And so one of the dads includedthat in the message and said, I
want to share with my daughter.
I want to read this book, a number oftimes to my daughter, and also to guide
(24:39):
her along and share with her the differentthings that can be learned from the book.
Oh, sweet.
That is just so sweet.
Was it intentional that with the book,that is mainly illustration pictures?
Yes.
(25:00):
Yeah, it is.
Um, that's, that is very intentional.
I wanted to have the picturesdo most of the storytelling.
And part of the reason ispictures come naturally to me.
I think pictures can really tell somuch, especially being an illustrator.
That's just so.
(25:21):
Juicy to me, like every picture cantell so much, every nuance can tell so
much, um, every detail, like the, thecharacters, like slight curve in the,
in the mouth, when opening the lunchbox,when feeling lonely, like then we know
the lunchbox give her so much comfort.
(25:42):
Um, so it's like, there can beso many different nuances that
can be told that can drive thestory without words in this case.
So I really wanted to have this,an almost wordless picture book.
And part, another reason wasbecause the main character
struggles with a language barrier.
So since she can't speak thelanguage, how about we all go
(26:04):
through this experience with her.
And so that's anotherintention for the book.
Oh, I love that.
And I also think for me, I'm a picturesand images does more for me than words.
And I also feel that.
looking at a pictureallows me to slow down.
(26:26):
Yeah.
Right.
Because I find readings of your brainis often still going, but what you said,
it's just looking at the picture, but thesmile, you feel, you sense it's there.
That's, that's what, when Ifirst picked up this book, I
was like, I want to save it.
Then now I'm thinking, should I put it
(26:47):
two blocks from our place there's a childcare daycare center, and they have a
little free library outside for children'sbooks, and I'm like, should I put it
in there so another kid can read it.
But then I'm like, but I want to keep it.
It's so pretty.
That's so sweet.
(27:09):
Maybe I'll buy anotherone and put it in there.
That's what I'll do.
Thank you.
Yeah, that's a great point that wedefinitely slow down with the pictures.
And I think that's another reasonwhy this is a pretty quiet book,
not because it doesn't have muchwords, but because we also slow down.
(27:30):
And we analyze and understandwhat she's going through.
And so there's a really, like,wordless connection with the reader
and the main character and the story.
So, yeah, it really slows usdown to connect with the story.
Is that how you feel when you're drawing?
A lot of times, yeah, yeah.
When I want to draw a certainemotion, I do kind of pause myself
(27:54):
and try to put myself in their shoes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So drawing characters is one ofmy most favorite things to draw,
because there can be so it's so fun.
It's like I really put myself in theirshoes, whether they're having fun or
they're sad or whatever it might be.
I do slow down.
And I tried to really putthat in there, that emotion.
(28:18):
I'm sure you've been asked this a fewtimes because you're an artist, where
does your inspiration come from?
Or ideas for the characters.
Yeah, ideas for the characters,I think it's mainly from one's
own personal experiences.
And so that's even more real to peoplewho see the art or read the book, because
(28:42):
it does come from such a personal space.
And sometimes it's from others, ofwhat I see others going through,
and I want to put that into my art.
So there can be a number ofinspiration, but mainly it's from
it's from one's experiences andhoping that putting that into art or
(29:03):
book form can help other people too.
So I make pottery on the sitefor fun as a hobby and it really
helps with my mental health.
Sometimes people will say, butwhere does the idea come from?
I'm like, I don't know.
Sometimes it just getsdownloaded and then I do it.
I'm curious, does that happen for you?
(29:24):
I can have a piece of paint, but it,it can sit there for four or five days
until I actually design it or paint it.
Are you, are you an artist like that?
Or do you plan it?
I'm kind of both.
Depends.
It depends.
Sometimes I like to freestyle.
When I sketch, I love to freestyle.
(29:46):
Like, whatever comes to my hand, tothe pencil or pen, like, I love that.
And I want to see thepossibilities that come from that.
Um, when I draw, sometimes when I sketchfor myself, I just start with one line.
And I just Keeps the I just keep it goingor I just try to start from something
from nothing really and to align orsomething and then eventually it becomes
(30:07):
a story and really, I love doing that.
It's so fun and spontaneous.
But when I have a deadline,then it's different.
When I have a deadline, I haveto give myself a schedule.
So, uh, How this book started,again, is from that page, and
that page is kind of spontaneous.
It's just like a feeling that I wanted toget down on paper from that experience.
(30:29):
And after that, since it's goingto be a book, then I need to have
structure in my, in my work style.
Um, and so I start to plan, you know,what, what, what's going to happen?
What's the beginning?
What's the middle?
What's the end?
What's the conflict?
Um, sometimes I have schedules.
If I can, I, I block out.
a few hours for my work.
(30:50):
If I can't, then I still need to havesome sort of way to finish that deadline.
So in the pottery world oftentimesthe members always say to each other,
leave it alone, just leave it alone.
Don't touch it anymore.
Don't go back and play with itbecause usually if you kind of
poke it and try to make it better.
(31:12):
The whole thing either collapsedor it cracks or something.
Are you an artist that You do it,you're good with it, you leave
it alone, or do you go back andtry and make it more perfect?
Oh man, that's a great question.
Sometimes I need to remind myself, okay,stop now, stop now, that's good now.
Um, it's been really interestingworking on this book because as
(31:37):
you're saying that, then I findmyself setting up a new pattern.
Like, as I'm working, I'm working,I'm working, then I'm like, no,
that's not, it's not good enough yet.
Not good enough yet.
And then up to a certain point somehowthere's like just that was certain point
where I'm like, okay, it's finishedOkay, leave it drop your And move on.
(31:57):
Um, and I just move on so I work upto a certain point where I think, and
somehow it's just something like, maybeyou can relate to that too, like you
just know it's, it's at a good placenow, um, and I drop my pencil and I
leave it, and then maybe I go backto it, not that I fiddle with it, but
I just see if there's anything thatreally is just, I just need to change.
(32:22):
And oftentimes, it's just thenecessary changes after that.
Yeah, I often jokingly tell peoplethat if you have any control issues,
go and learn how to do pottery.
Because, at some point, you'rejust like I gotta give up control,
because I've done my best andthere's nothing else can do about it.
(32:44):
So I get what you're saying, butit took me about two years to
figure to go okay, just walk away.
Just don't mess with itPatricia just walk away.
Because every time you mess withit the whole thing doesn't go well.
Right.
Yeah.
And that's the benefit ofdoing art digitally because
(33:06):
I do all my art digitally.
I used to do it, um,traditionally, which is beautiful.
I, I really admire artists whodo it traditionally because
there's no undo button.
So that's probably the thing with pottery.
There's no undo button, but withdigital, there's an undo button.
So if I overwork it, I can undo it.
(33:28):
So I have high respectfor you and your art.
Mental health.
I would love to hear your journey withmental health and also when you talk
to kids, what do you want them to know,
(33:48):
. My journey and mental health.
Um, wow, this is such like a hitshome like I might get teary talking
about this, um, because I grew upwith, with anxiety, and I didn't know.
And I just, I was just researching theother day, um, because I self diagnosed
(34:10):
that I had OCD, um, because when Iwas little, I just saw some weird
advertisement, um, on the newspaperof a, a ghost movie of like, you know,
the hair in front of the girl's face.
And the title says 3 a.
m.
and it scared me so much after I saw thatand I actually started avoiding the number
three, like in whatever I was doing.
(34:33):
And so it became a rep, I had theserepetitive things that I started
doing when I was really little.
I don't even know how old Iwas, but I started doing that.
And I was looking online, um,just past last week and I was just
curious, like about OCD and kids.
And, uh, it said that a lot of timeswe don't know what the kids are going
(34:55):
through who have OCD, I'm sure, anda lot of other, you know, mental
struggles, but like an OCD, it's,it's hard for the kid to express,
like what's going on in their mind.
Um, and I think that's what I wasgoing through and just growing up,
just started having these patterns.
And then the fear started to get grow.
(35:17):
They, it started growingmore and more and more.
And when there started to be pressure,you know, from school, um, from
doing well in school and things likethat, adding onto the pressure along
with the OCD, it was very difficult.
Um, And until getting to high school,we actually had a class and talked
about mental health and I saw OCD.
(35:39):
And I was like, Hey, that sounds like me.
Yeah.
And so from that point on, I waslike, I think that's what I have.
But how do I, you know, work on it?
Um, I still didn't know how and didn'tknow I could get a therapist and didn't
want to open up to my parents about it.
So it's like in front of others,I'm one way, but behind the
scenes, then I'm another way.
(35:59):
And so from that, I guess, fromone's own experience, journey.
I see that a lot of times peoplecan seem so happy on the outside,
but internally, there can be so muchgoing on that we don't know about.
And so I think that is part of mypurpose in life, um, that I've gone
through this and I know that's not easy.
(36:22):
And so, but, I also, part ofthe purpose is to also share the
hope that it can be overcome.
Cause, I don't think I haveOCD anymore, even if I do, then
it's very, very, very subtle.
Like, some things I don't, I've forgotten.
what I've gone through.
Um, and part of the reason is like,I, I was, I got involved in what's
(36:44):
called Dao, like Dao in Chinese,it's Dao, and it means the way, and
it helped me to, it's a way of life.
Like, it's not a religion, it doesn'thave, doesn't have any specific
beliefs, but it's a way of life.
And how do I want to think about things?
Like, what is my perspective on things?
(37:07):
Are the issues really outwardly?
Is, is it really the outside pressurethat's the issue or is it the
expectation I have towards myselfand the pressure I give to myself?
And so I started to makethose modifications and I
started to examine myself.
And then when the, when the blame isnot pointing outwardly, then I have more
(37:29):
control with what I want to do internally.
Um, so it's been a whole journey andthat's really helped me tremendously.
And I've forgotten like what I usedto do to myself when I was alone.
Like, and I mean, I didn't really like.
It wasn't anything too too dark,but I was going through a whole lot
(37:52):
of turmoil when I was by myself.
Um, there was a lot of fear, but when Istarted to also look at the fear and then
work on that internal fear, it's like,Hey, actually fear is just an illusion.
It's actually not real.
And part of what fear, how fear can reallytake over, uh, somebody or took over
(38:14):
me at the time is that it felt so real.
And that's what drove OCD is to thinkthat I have to do these things to prevent
something from happening, where thereality was, I don't have that control.
But it's not real, like I don'thave that control to undo, you know,
something undo a scary thought orprevent scary things from happening.
(38:37):
So, and even, and now that I'mlearning to, to, to kind of be more
in control of one's thinking in a way.
It's like, even if somethinghappens, it doesn't have to be scary.
It doesn't have to, I don'thave to react with fear.
I don't have to think of that insuch a negative way that maybe
(38:58):
there's a positive way to view it.
Maybe I can view with appreciation.
I can view the blessings behind it.
So like what drove that fearwas also scary things, right?
Things are scary.
I don't want things to happen,but even if those things happen,
it doesn't have to be scary.
And so like gradually, graduallykind of working on my perspective and
(39:18):
working on myself and working on thefear working and unknowingly, then the
OCD started to diminish when I startedto just ignore like not not give into
those patterns of wanting to you.
In a way control scary thingsto and and not let them happen.
Um, and so the pattern started to goaway and it's like coming out of it.
(39:40):
Then I can talk about it, right?
I didn't even want to talkabout this with my parents.
And now I can talk aboutthis in the podcast.
So I want to share with peoplethat maybe that's part of the
purpose, my purpose in life.
It's like, or all of our purposes,whatever we've gone through,
we come out of it strongerand maybe with more clarity.
And we can share with other people that.
(40:01):
What you're going through, Iunderstand, and it can be overcome,
and it's very, very hopeful.
Um, at the time, actually, when I was inhigh school, I Googled OCD, and then, I
don't know, maybe the, maybe the resultshave changed, but at the time, the
Google results say, oh, it's not curable.
I was like, oh, no, I reallyjust was so defeated seeing that.
(40:26):
Um, maybe it's changed.
Maybe.
Or maybe I just focused onthe negative thing that and
then I got really overwhelmed.
Um, so, yeah, it's been a wholejourney, but I'm really, really
grateful, even for the anxiety, becauseI think it can be very meaningful.
(40:47):
If we've overcome it, then maybeother people sense the hope
and what they're going through.
Yeah, 100%, right.
And, uh, I Thank you for sharingthat and I also with what I do to
often in OCD is like, even anxietyis like, it's a sense of, I need
(41:13):
to make sure everything is okay.
Yeah, so it's a safety thing, you know,and I, when we have when we feel safer
because we have people in our lifethat can help us, we have community
that helps in the healing process.
but.
And I often say this to people too,we're not meant to live this life alone.
(41:37):
We need to find community and whetheryour community looks like your
therapist, maybe it's a body worker.
Hopefully you have some friends.
I know a lot of immigrants havea hard time, especially when they
come to a new country as an adult.
They have a hard time makingfriends, finding community.
But I often tell people, try andfind community, however that looks
(42:00):
like for you, because then, What isgoing on in your mind won't feel so
scary, because then you have peoplethat you can share that with, say
people that you can share that with.
Exactly.
Yeah, then we don't feellike we're so alone.
And we have the mutual support andencouragement and understanding.
(42:23):
Yeah.
A couple more questions for you.
Yeah.
Let's talk about food.
Yeah.
Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about food because inour culture, food is so important.
So much significance to it.
(42:45):
And especially, with your book, ToHome in a Lunchbox, it's the food that
helps., I would love to know favoritefood that are meaningful for you?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Favorite food.
The first thing thatcomes to mind is youtiao.
Oh, youtiao.
Oh, how do we, okay, please, howdo we describe what youtiao is to
(43:07):
the listeners who are not Chinese?
You Tiao, You Tiao it's like along piece of dough that you deep
fry, and it comes out so crispyand nice and how do you describe
crispy and fluffy at the same time?
How do you eat YouTiao?
In Singapore, we I dip it in coffeewith sweetened condensed milk.
(43:29):
Uh huh, or we put it in congee inZhou Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
I've never heard of it eaten with coffee,like dip it in coffee in Singapore.
Oh, look, I'm older than you.
, they still do it now.
But when I was growing up in the 70sand 80s, the coffee you can get it
(43:50):
black, you can get it black with sugaror with sweetened condensed milk.
Uh, like how theVietnamese people drink it.
So to dip it in sweetened condensedmilk and coffee, and then you eat
it, it's like that crispy youtiao andthen that sweetness from the coffee.
It's so good.
(44:11):
You have to try it one day.
That sounded like a taglinefrom an advertisement.
Sounded so good.
You made me hungry.
Can you get it easily?
Yeah, there is a Chinese supermarket.
It's not so close, but it's,it's a driving distance.
(44:34):
And so it's it's kind of kind of a rarity,you know, if I don't want to drive too
far, then, you know, that's a rarity.
Uh, any, any other food besides youtiao?
I like, um, hóngdòutāng.
Yeah, sweet red soup.
(44:57):
Very good.
And that brings about alot of childhood memories.
Um, that was like a specialtreat, a special breakfast.
So it really reminds me ofhome when I eat hóngdòutāng.
It's interesting, right, to hear yousay that was a treat, because my mom
would make that almost every day.
That or, that or, or Lü DouTang,, mung bean soup with
(45:21):
sugar in it, with rock sugar.
But, because in Chinese medicinetheory, too, is that, The mung beans
help to dispel heat and dampness andSingapore is a hot and damp country.
So we would have it almost every day.
Wow.
Yeah, I definitely sense thegreen, the mung bean helps me to
(45:45):
get rid of the heat in my body.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Cool.
, So, I know you talk a bit aboutyour second book just now.
Would you share a bit more . sure.
Um, my second book is not yet announced,but it is about my mental health journey.
(46:07):
It is about overcoming.
Fear and anxiety, um, so I'veshared quite a bit about my journey.
And so I'm translatingthat into a picture book.
And of course it's not, it'sgoing to be in a way that is, it's
going to be in a way where kidscan understand and feel comforted
(46:32):
that I look forward to that book.
Thank you.
Last question of the podcast isalways, any advice that comes to
you, maybe for kids who are immigrantor kids dealing with anxiety?
Yeah, um, for kids who areimmigrants, maybe I would just
(46:55):
share that this is really temporary,that they feel out of place.
This is definitely just partof the process and eventually
you'll find your place.
And so don't feel alone, like don'tfeel, um, like defeated or don't need
to feel lonely, even if right now youdo feel that way, it's going to be
(47:16):
temporary and everything will be okay.
Um, and for kids with anxiety, Iwould probably share that what you're
going through is really not easy andI understand and also know that I've
been through the same thing and it isa, you can, you can break through it.
(47:37):
You can overcome it.
It's possible.
It doesn't need to defeat us.
It can make us stronger.
And I think having anxiety or havinghave had anxiety, it's really helped
me become much stronger and alsomuch more empathetic towards others.
So it can be a gift, what we'regoing through the challenges
that we are going through.
(48:02):
Thank you, Cherry.
Thank you, Patricia.
Hmm, what a great conversation.
And I agree with Cherrythat, having anxiety.
It's tough and.
You can overcome it.
(48:22):
It is possible.
If you are listening to this and youhave anxiety and anxious thoughts.
Know that it is normal.
I often tell clients that if youmeet someone and they tell you
that they're never anxious, Either.
(48:43):
They're in denial or they're nottelling you the truth because
all of us have anxious thoughts.
From time to time.
Now, but if your anxiety is debilitating.
You cannot go out and do thingsand you have panic attacks.
Please seek help.
(49:04):
What helps for me when I have.
Anxiety when I have anxious thoughts.
Is I reached for my tools.
Things like sitting down, slowing down.
Paying attention to the.
Warm beverage that I am drinking.
Noticing how it feelsgoing down my throat.
(49:27):
Going for a walk in nature, touching.
The furniture helps me touching somethingsoft also helps me because anxiety
is often us thinking ruminating onthings that either hasn't happened.
Or has happened and we are thinkingabout how we should have done
(49:51):
it and what we could have said.
Touching something solid bringsyou back to the present moment.
So be gentle with yourself.
And share, share with people that youtrust when you're having difficult days.
Take good care of yourself.
(50:12):
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapetersen.
(50:33):
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
Hi, everyone.
I hope you're doing well.
Welcome to another episode ofconversations with your Chinese Auntie.
Before I introduce.
My next guest.
I want to remind all of you,amazing people that my online
offering community for Asian women.
(00:25):
Early bird pricing and September 8th.
We meet for six weeksstarting on September 30th.
The link is in my bio and on my website,Patricia Peterson, P E T E R S E N.
Dot CA.
And you can also find moreinformation on Instagram.
(00:50):
My guest today is Cherry Mo.
And.
After this conversation, I feel like.
I've known Cherry for a long time.
Cherry is the author illustrator of herdebut picture book Home In A Lunchbox.
This book is inspired by Cherry'spersonal experience of moving from
(01:12):
Hong Kong to America at age of 10.
We talk about that in the episode.
We also talk about Cherry'screative work self-awareness and
her journey with her mental health.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
(01:38):
Good morning, Cherry.
Morning, Patricia.
Thank you for saying yes.
I'm so excited to have you here.
for inviting me.
This is awesome.
My Chinese auntie.
So first question of the podcast isalways, please introduce yourself,
where you're from, what you do,anything that shows up for you.
(02:04):
Sure.
My name is Cherry Mo.
I'm an author, illustratorof picture books.
My debut picture book justcame out in June of this year.
So just two months ago.
So it's been very exciting.
The book is called Home in a Lunchbox andit's inspired by my personal experience of
(02:25):
moving from Hong Kong to the US when I was10 years old and that's been really just
A very, very, um, lasting memory of mine.
It's just the feeling of, wow.
It's just kind of felt like I was ploppedinto a strange place and not knowing the
language and now, uh, all grown up andI see a lot of kids are going through
(02:49):
that no matter immigrants or not, um,just, um, maybe feelings of loneliness
of wanting a sense of belonging.
Um, so.
Anyway, so that's my first book, and Ihave a second one coming out, um, and
both are from Penguin Random House,and the second one is coming out 2026.
(03:09):
Um, so besides being an authorillustrator, I volunteer at a
non profit that focuses on selfreflection, um, introspection, so
that's been a huge part of my workas well, as an artist and an author.
How to I think a lot of kids are goingthrough a lot of things internally.
So how to meld the two together.
(03:31):
And so I really want All of my booksto be able to benefit kids in that
way where they can look within.
Um, and when I know that when Ifound out you're a therapist, I was
like, wow, this is amazing that youreached out to me because this is
something that I find very important.
You know, the introspectionand understanding oneself.
(03:52):
Um, so that's a big part of my life.
Um, I am Chinese American.
Um, my parents are from Taiwan and I grewup in Hong Kong until I was 10 years old.
And so my pronouns are sheand her, um, and yeah, I think
that's, that's pretty much it.
Oh, thank you.
How did your parents endedup in Hong Kong from Taiwan?
(04:16):
Yeah, I think, um, mainly asmy dad, he was working there.
Do you still have, uh,relatives back in Taiwan?
I do.
I do.
I have an uncle and aunt,you know, their family there.
My relatives are in the U.
S.
now.
Oh, okay.
(04:37):
So have you been back to Taiwan?
I haven't been back for like, maybelast time was like, maybe like 13
years ago, um, back to Taiwan andto Hong Kong, even longer than that,
maybe even 20 years or something.
I'm not sure.
Uh, or 18, maybe 18.
Any desire to go back?
(04:59):
I do, but just not quitesure when that would happen.
Especially Taiwan.
Taiwan's very nice.
Hong Kong's nice too.
Yeah, but maybe because myparents are Taiwanese, so I
feel a closeness with Taiwan.
Yeah, I saw a thing on the newsyesterday morning here that Taiwan
is the top destination for Gen Zs.
(05:25):
Hmm.
That's great.
I haven't been to Taiwanfor 30 years, maybe.
Wow.
Yeah.
Do you miss Taiwan?
You know, . I was so young when I went,'cause I was born in Singapore, so it
was easy to go to Taiwan to visit the,to be honest, the only thing I remembered
(05:46):
about Taiwan was that the rice is so good.
Yeah, I think, yeah, definitely.
I can relate to that.
And it's good rice, you know it.
It's true.
I would love if you share yourjourney to how you became a author,
(06:08):
illustrator, the creative side of it.
Yeah, definitely.
My journey, it's beenquite a journey really.
And this makes me see like, wow, nomatter, you know, we see a lot of people
maybe getting, not just books, butjust in their careers in general, like
really it takes so much to get to whereeverybody is like, um, so I definitely
(06:31):
had my own ups and downs, um, There wasa period of time, actually, that actually
didn't do art, didn't do art for years.
Yeah, and the reason was at thattime, just was pursuing a creative
career as an artist and somehow juststarted to build up a lot of pressure.
(06:52):
A lot of inner pressure, a lot of anxiety,a lot of self doubt, and even though I
was doing just fine, but maybe, I don'tknow if you agree, that a lot of times
we're really, we're our biggest enemy.
And so it kind of, you know,really hit a huge roadblock for
some time where I actually stoppeddoing art for a number of years.
(07:15):
Um, and so at that time, then I thoughtthat was the end of my creative journey.
You know, that's it.
Um, I kind of just didn't kind oflost that, not kind of, I really
lost that spark, um, and towards art.
And the reason why artists are artistsprobably because we love what we do.
But for a period of time, I just reallylost that passion and that spark.
(07:38):
And I think that was smotheredby a lot of self doubt and
anxiety and a lot of confusion.
So anyway.
Interestingly, um, my mother, she'slike, why don't you try again?
You know, you can try a picture book.
Have you thought about picture book?
And I was like, picture book, not really.
And there was mainly just so muchresistance to give it a try again,
(08:00):
because it was such a huge setback for me.
Um, but, I often share the story.
I was just taking a walk at themall, um, and just saw an art store,
walked into the art store, and theowner was actually, is actually an
author illustrator for picture books.
(08:21):
And so he had all his books displayedas paintings or artworks that he was
selling and I started talking to him.
I was like, Oh, this is in my mind.
It's like, this is really serendipitous.
Like my mom just suggested this and Ihappened to walk into the store and have
this conversation with the professional.
Uh, his name is, uh, R Gregory Christie.
(08:42):
And recently we were inthe same art show together.
So it came full circle.
Um, But, um, so at the time I startedtalking to him, he shared a lot of
resources, talked about SCBWI, which isan organization, society of children's
book writers and illustrators.
Share with me a lot ofpodcasts, a lot of resources.
(09:04):
So I got started from there and thenso I had to really break through myself
to Cheer myself on and say try again,you know, um, of course with family
and friends encouragement, too So longstory short so from then then it's
like three and a half years later.
Um, so I went through During that threeand a half years, um, putting together
(09:28):
portfolio again, putting together abook dummy, um, finding agent, finding
publisher, et cetera, and found mywonderful agent, Emily Van Viek.
She found a wonderfulpublisher, Penguin Random House.
Um, I'm working withElizabeth Lee as my editor.
And so now the book is out.
(09:49):
So it's like, there's so much behindthe scenes, I believe for everybody.
Um, so much that every single personhas gone through, and I think looking
back, um, it's really made, I guessthe setbacks really made me who I am.
And I think that alsoapplies to everybody.
Like, the challenges make me theartist, the person that I am today.
(10:11):
And I really wouldn't have askedfor anything better, actually,
like throughout this whole journey.
So from struggling to believe inoneself and finding one's voice
and one's path to pushing throughand having the setbacks and pushing
through and just keeping on going.
And now I really love.
(10:32):
I love the work so much.
I love being an author illustrator.
It's so meaningful and getting to meetthe kids at the schools and seeing them
hold the book, you know, and so happyand talking to them and, and being
able to share a message to them thatmaybe things might be hard sometimes,
(10:54):
but you can do it, you know, you cando it and maybe you'll be even better
coming out of it, the difficulties.
So it's just been very, very meaningful.
Um, Yeah, so I guess that'san overview of my journey.
That's so great and I do want to talkabout the mental health piece in a bit,
(11:15):
but it just touches my heart when yousaid your mom encouraged you to look
at it again because In the Chineseculture, there's often this idea that
a lot of Chinese parents don't believein the arts and the creative because
they think that it doesn't make money.
How did your parents take it thatthat's the path you want to pursue?
(11:37):
Yeah, well, I guess in that way, I'mvery blessed that my mother is the
main influencer for me to be an artist.
Um, cause I grew up, me andmy sister, my sister and I, we
grew up watching my mom draw us.
and draw a lot of things.
And we're like amazed,like, wow, this is magic.
(11:57):
How did you do that?
Um, and also my, so my mom'sside, they're very, very artistic.
Um, my cousin is also a,actually a storyboard artist.
And so I grew up seeing, I thinkhe also paved the path in a way
because then my parents saw, oh,you can have a career, uh, from art.
So that opened up a lot.
(12:21):
That's awesome.
Is your mom an artist?
She was, um, she majoredin interior design.
Yeah.
And that, that also needsthe artistic creative mind.
Definitely.
To look at it.
Uh, so your book, Home in aLunchbox, I, when I read it, I was
(12:41):
like, I felt like just a sense ofrelief, you know, but I also felt
how, I also felt, I guess, how you felt.
Yeah.
In a sense of howdifficult it was to fit in.
When you first came to America,you don't have a lot of English but,
and the food was what helped youto feel a sense of air and love.
(13:09):
When those few days at school.
And I'd love for you to talk about whatyou remember in the beginning when you
first landed and the food and maybeeven what the food signifies to you,
the different food, like there's bao,there's dumplings, you know, the noodles.
(13:29):
And also, were you ever afraidthat your classmates would make
fun of the food, because that'swhat some people talked about too.
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, I'm like thinking back.
I think I, there was, there was a littlefear of others, how others will think
(13:52):
about me and my food and things like that.
And it's so interesting because ina way, now that I'm thinking back,
it's like, huh, that did happen.
You know, where I may have feltembarrassed or a little bit insecure.
And, but as I wrote this book, I waslike, Hey, maybe that's the message too.
It's like the love and the warmth and ourculture and home overpowers all of that.
(14:16):
Like that is.
Part of one's identity.
And that's kind of left aneven deeper impression in me.
It's like opening the lunchbox,no matter how I felt, but I know
there's so much love in it andthere's so much memories in the food.
Um, and so there were, I had both, Ihad both, but feeling the warmth from
the lunch and also feeling a little bit,uh, insecure being in a new environment.
(14:41):
Yeah.
But that lunchbox was the, was alot of times really reminded me.
That was the thing that reminded methat everything will be okay, you know,
you're loved, um, home is not far away.
Did your sister and you go to the sameschool, like the first few weeks,
(15:02):
did you have your sister with you?
Were you alone?
I was alone because, um, we're threeyears apart, so at the time I went
to, um, elementary school, and thenshe went, she was in middle school.
And then when I went to middle school,we happened to be in different middle
schools for some reason, um, And Ithink she transitioned to high school,
(15:22):
so we were rarely in the same school.
Um, and so that kind of adds to that too,like, okay, I'm really on my own now.
I guess just have topower through or learn.
At that time, didn't have the idea ofpowering through, but just felt very lost.
But looking back, I think that wasalso a very precious experience.
(15:45):
A feeling confused, so I can maybefind my way through it and yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Do you remember how longit took before you felt
okay.
Like, okay, in a sense that, okay, youcan go to school without feeling lonely
(16:10):
and without feeling like I stand out.
Mm hmm.
I think it took me until so from fifthgrade until maybe seventh grade, then I
started to actually get used to English.
So it took me two years.
Oh, what helped you in those twoyears, besides the lunch, lunchbox?
(16:33):
Did you make good friends?
Was there someone who stood out?
Um, well, actually in fifth gradewhen I was feeling very lost, just
like the character in the book.
Um, if you recall, there isa spread of June, the main
character, just like holding thelunchbox and walking into school.
(16:56):
Like, I think that scene is very impactfulfor a lot of people, including myself.
That's actually the pagethat started the whole book.
So I drew that first because thatwas that feeling at the time.
And then one of my illustrator friends,she's like, you should make this into
a book and I did and I'm so glad shesuggested that that I do, um, and
(17:18):
so in the beginning of, of school.
That's how I felt.
And then that went onfor for a period of time.
And actually, my first friend in America.
Her name's Amanda.
And, uh, I was just in thelibrary because didn't couldn't
talk to anybody and was shy.
I was very, very shy and quiet andjust withdrew myself and went to
(17:39):
the library and actually stumbledupon a, um, a few Chinese books.
Like I saw Chinese and I waslike, wow, that's awesome.
What is this?
So I picked it up, started reading it.
And so Amanda came and wedidn't talk before that.
And then she's like, You know, in Chinese,and I was like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
(18:00):
And so she really opened up,um, she really welcomed me.
Yeah, because, I mean, I think people,I mean, I think especially kids
would, will find strange, like thisgirl or boy never talks so quiet.
And it's easy to, to kind ofwant to distance from them.
(18:20):
And I think that is understandable,because kids don't understand that
maybe, or might not understand that.
Everybody comes from differentbackgrounds and stories.
So I think Amanda really helped me tostart to open up myself and make friends.
And so from that point on, um, I just,yeah, I started making some friends, but
(18:41):
they all spoke Chinese and Cantonese.
So in that way, still kind oflimited myself, but at least
started to open up oneself to,to make, make those connections.
And so up to seventh grade, that's when Istarted to make English speaking friends.
And so from that point on, just slowly,gradually, um, Adjusted oneself.
Are you still friends with Amanda?
(19:05):
I am!
Actually, I had a few book launch events.
Um, yeah, and I invited her.
I was like, you know this book, um,that character Rose was inspired by
you because she reached out when,when the main character June really
needed it and you reached out to me.
And so you are the inspirationfor that character.
(19:26):
I want to invite you to my book launch.
And so she actuallybrought her whole family.
So it's really, really special.
Yeah.
And, um, yeah, that is so sweet.
That makes me teary.
Because when you look back, you're like,you'd never know, right in your life,
you never know who's gonna show up andjust shift things for you when things
(19:49):
are difficult, especially the guy thatyou met to the day that mom said, well,
maybe you should look at this again.
And then you go into thebookstore and say, what is this?
Yeah, that was really interesting.
I was like, is this happening right now?
As I'm talking to him, like in my mind,I was like, is this really happening?
It just seems so serendipitous.
And it's perfect.
(20:10):
He really helped me get started.
So maybe in a way it's meant to be.
Like all the challenges, all the setbacksjust redirected me, redirected me to a
path that maybe I was supposed to go into.
Well, and I, I often say this to, toclients and friends too, is that the
signs were there and you followed, youdidn't keep resisting because I think
(20:33):
sometimes we, we, we know what we need todo, but we are afraid and we're scared.
So even though the signs are so loud.
Well, I'm now we're justgonna know this is too hard.
I don't want to go with it.
But you, you followed and listen.
That's so great.
(20:54):
I love that sometimes a lot oftimes it really is one's own
fear, or one's own self doubt thatmakes us want to ignore the signs.
And so I'm really grateful actuallyduring that period of time when I
stepped away from art, then I did some,some inner work, you know, in that
nonprofit and, and just really wantedto, like, learn to be stronger and
(21:16):
learn to overcome whatever it is inside.
Um, yeah.
When you speak to children withyour book, you know when you talk
to them and you see them holding.
your book, would you sharewhat are some of the things
(21:36):
the kids have shared with you?
Yeah, definitely.
Um, let me think.
I think mainly kids just, theyjust really, um, somehow when
I do read alouds, they're kindof like glued to the pictures.
And they ask questions and they haven'treally like shared, you know, after the
(22:01):
storytime, like their exact thoughts,but during the storytime readings.
Then I just see likehow focused they were.
And I think from the book being almostwordless makes them even more focused.
Like they want to know what's going on.
Like they want to analyze all the details.
(22:24):
And when I asked them, like, haveyou, has anyone ever felt like this?
You know, with that spread, with the maincharacter holding her lunch box, box,
you know, alone walking into school and.
Every time everybody raises their hands.
So I feel like all ofthis is really beyond.
It's a universal experienceand all the kids can relate
(22:44):
to that feeling with feedback.
Actually, the main feedbackI've gotten are from parents.
And especially from dads for somereason, and a lot of dads would
message me and say your story reallymade me tear up, especially that
page with her walking into school.
(23:05):
And I was like, well, I didn't know Ihad that ability to make dads emotional.
I love it.
Um, so it shows is really beyondall ages and, um, Experiences
and backgrounds and ethnicity.
It's really a universal experience.
I'm curious, is it The dads who,who share that with you, do you know
(23:30):
if it's mainly because they wentthrough that or is it because they see
their daughters or their sons in it?
I think they went through it themselves.
So really tugged at theirheartstrings like, wow, this was me.
Yeah.
It was very special to hear that.
And, and they share that they wantto pass that on to their kids,
(23:54):
like to, to let them know that.
It's okay to be different.
Like maybe I've been through it and,and they share that this book has really
helped them to explain a lot of differentemotions to the children and the messages
and empathy, how to empathize with others.
And that is one of the core.
(24:16):
I'm hoping the core messages of thebook, not just that we belong, but
that we can also help others feellike they belong and empathize with
others and what they're going through.
And so one of the dads includedthat in the message and said, I
want to share with my daughter.
I want to read this book, a number oftimes to my daughter, and also to guide
(24:39):
her along and share with her the differentthings that can be learned from the book.
Oh, sweet.
That is just so sweet.
Was it intentional that with the book,that is mainly illustration pictures?
Yes.
(25:00):
Yeah, it is.
Um, that's, that is very intentional.
I wanted to have the picturesdo most of the storytelling.
And part of the reason ispictures come naturally to me.
I think pictures can really tell somuch, especially being an illustrator.
That's just so.
(25:21):
Juicy to me, like every picture cantell so much, every nuance can tell so
much, um, every detail, like the, thecharacters, like slight curve in the,
in the mouth, when opening the lunchbox,when feeling lonely, like then we know
the lunchbox give her so much comfort.
(25:42):
Um, so it's like, there can beso many different nuances that
can be told that can drive thestory without words in this case.
So I really wanted to have this,an almost wordless picture book.
And part, another reason wasbecause the main character
struggles with a language barrier.
So since she can't speak thelanguage, how about we all go
(26:04):
through this experience with her.
And so that's anotherintention for the book.
Oh, I love that.
And I also think for me, I'm a picturesand images does more for me than words.
And I also feel that.
looking at a pictureallows me to slow down.
(26:26):
Yeah.
Right.
Because I find readings of your brainis often still going, but what you said,
it's just looking at the picture, but thesmile, you feel, you sense it's there.
That's, that's what, when Ifirst picked up this book, I
was like, I want to save it.
Then now I'm thinking, should I put it
(26:47):
two blocks from our place there's a childcare daycare center, and they have a
little free library outside for children'sbooks, and I'm like, should I put it
in there so another kid can read it.
But then I'm like, but I want to keep it.
It's so pretty.
That's so sweet.
(27:09):
Maybe I'll buy anotherone and put it in there.
That's what I'll do.
Thank you.
Yeah, that's a great point that wedefinitely slow down with the pictures.
And I think that's another reasonwhy this is a pretty quiet book,
not because it doesn't have muchwords, but because we also slow down.
(27:30):
And we analyze and understandwhat she's going through.
And so there's a really, like,wordless connection with the reader
and the main character and the story.
So, yeah, it really slows usdown to connect with the story.
Is that how you feel when you're drawing?
A lot of times, yeah, yeah.
When I want to draw a certainemotion, I do kind of pause myself
(27:54):
and try to put myself in their shoes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So drawing characters is one ofmy most favorite things to draw,
because there can be so it's so fun.
It's like I really put myself in theirshoes, whether they're having fun or
they're sad or whatever it might be.
I do slow down.
And I tried to really putthat in there, that emotion.
(28:18):
I'm sure you've been asked this a fewtimes because you're an artist, where
does your inspiration come from?
Or ideas for the characters.
Yeah, ideas for the characters,I think it's mainly from one's
own personal experiences.
And so that's even more real to peoplewho see the art or read the book, because
(28:42):
it does come from such a personal space.
And sometimes it's from others, ofwhat I see others going through,
and I want to put that into my art.
So there can be a number ofinspiration, but mainly it's from
it's from one's experiences andhoping that putting that into art or
(29:03):
book form can help other people too.
So I make pottery on the sitefor fun as a hobby and it really
helps with my mental health.
Sometimes people will say, butwhere does the idea come from?
I'm like, I don't know.
Sometimes it just getsdownloaded and then I do it.
I'm curious, does that happen for you?
(29:24):
I can have a piece of paint, but it,it can sit there for four or five days
until I actually design it or paint it.
Are you, are you an artist like that?
Or do you plan it?
I'm kind of both.
Depends.
It depends.
Sometimes I like to freestyle.
When I sketch, I love to freestyle.
(29:46):
Like, whatever comes to my hand, tothe pencil or pen, like, I love that.
And I want to see thepossibilities that come from that.
Um, when I draw, sometimes when I sketchfor myself, I just start with one line.
And I just Keeps the I just keep it goingor I just try to start from something
from nothing really and to align orsomething and then eventually it becomes
(30:07):
a story and really, I love doing that.
It's so fun and spontaneous.
But when I have a deadline,then it's different.
When I have a deadline, I haveto give myself a schedule.
So, uh, How this book started,again, is from that page, and
that page is kind of spontaneous.
It's just like a feeling that I wanted toget down on paper from that experience.
(30:29):
And after that, since it's goingto be a book, then I need to have
structure in my, in my work style.
Um, and so I start to plan, you know,what, what, what's going to happen?
What's the beginning?
What's the middle?
What's the end?
What's the conflict?
Um, sometimes I have schedules.
If I can, I, I block out.
a few hours for my work.
(30:50):
If I can't, then I still need to havesome sort of way to finish that deadline.
So in the pottery world oftentimesthe members always say to each other,
leave it alone, just leave it alone.
Don't touch it anymore.
Don't go back and play with itbecause usually if you kind of
poke it and try to make it better.
(31:12):
The whole thing either collapsedor it cracks or something.
Are you an artist that You do it,you're good with it, you leave
it alone, or do you go back andtry and make it more perfect?
Oh man, that's a great question.
Sometimes I need to remind myself, okay,stop now, stop now, that's good now.
Um, it's been really interestingworking on this book because as
(31:37):
you're saying that, then I findmyself setting up a new pattern.
Like, as I'm working, I'm working,I'm working, then I'm like, no,
that's not, it's not good enough yet.
Not good enough yet.
And then up to a certain point somehowthere's like just that was certain point
where I'm like, okay, it's finishedOkay, leave it drop your And move on.
(31:57):
Um, and I just move on so I work upto a certain point where I think, and
somehow it's just something like, maybeyou can relate to that too, like you
just know it's, it's at a good placenow, um, and I drop my pencil and I
leave it, and then maybe I go backto it, not that I fiddle with it, but
I just see if there's anything thatreally is just, I just need to change.
(32:22):
And oftentimes, it's just thenecessary changes after that.
Yeah, I often jokingly tell peoplethat if you have any control issues,
go and learn how to do pottery.
Because, at some point, you'rejust like I gotta give up control,
because I've done my best andthere's nothing else can do about it.
(32:44):
So I get what you're saying, butit took me about two years to
figure to go okay, just walk away.
Just don't mess with itPatricia just walk away.
Because every time you mess withit the whole thing doesn't go well.
Right.
Yeah.
And that's the benefit ofdoing art digitally because
(33:06):
I do all my art digitally.
I used to do it, um,traditionally, which is beautiful.
I, I really admire artists whodo it traditionally because
there's no undo button.
So that's probably the thing with pottery.
There's no undo button, but withdigital, there's an undo button.
So if I overwork it, I can undo it.
(33:28):
So I have high respectfor you and your art.
Mental health.
I would love to hear your journey withmental health and also when you talk
to kids, what do you want them to know,
(33:48):
. My journey and mental health.
Um, wow, this is such like a hitshome like I might get teary talking
about this, um, because I grew upwith, with anxiety, and I didn't know.
And I just, I was just researching theother day, um, because I self diagnosed
(34:10):
that I had OCD, um, because when Iwas little, I just saw some weird
advertisement, um, on the newspaperof a, a ghost movie of like, you know,
the hair in front of the girl's face.
And the title says 3 a.
m.
and it scared me so much after I saw thatand I actually started avoiding the number
three, like in whatever I was doing.
(34:33):
And so it became a rep, I had theserepetitive things that I started
doing when I was really little.
I don't even know how old Iwas, but I started doing that.
And I was looking online, um,just past last week and I was just
curious, like about OCD and kids.
And, uh, it said that a lot of timeswe don't know what the kids are going
(34:55):
through who have OCD, I'm sure, anda lot of other, you know, mental
struggles, but like an OCD, it's,it's hard for the kid to express,
like what's going on in their mind.
Um, and I think that's what I wasgoing through and just growing up,
just started having these patterns.
And then the fear started to get grow.
(35:17):
They, it started growingmore and more and more.
And when there started to be pressure,you know, from school, um, from
doing well in school and things likethat, adding onto the pressure along
with the OCD, it was very difficult.
Um, And until getting to high school,we actually had a class and talked
about mental health and I saw OCD.
(35:39):
And I was like, Hey, that sounds like me.
Yeah.
And so from that point on, I waslike, I think that's what I have.
But how do I, you know, work on it?
Um, I still didn't know how and didn'tknow I could get a therapist and didn't
want to open up to my parents about it.
So it's like in front of others,I'm one way, but behind the
scenes, then I'm another way.
(35:59):
And so from that, I guess, fromone's own experience, journey.
I see that a lot of times peoplecan seem so happy on the outside,
but internally, there can be so muchgoing on that we don't know about.
And so I think that is part of mypurpose in life, um, that I've gone
through this and I know that's not easy.
(36:22):
And so, but, I also, part ofthe purpose is to also share the
hope that it can be overcome.
Cause, I don't think I haveOCD anymore, even if I do, then
it's very, very, very subtle.
Like, some things I don't, I've forgotten.
what I've gone through.
Um, and part of the reason is like,I, I was, I got involved in what's
(36:44):
called Dao, like Dao in Chinese,it's Dao, and it means the way, and
it helped me to, it's a way of life.
Like, it's not a religion, it doesn'thave, doesn't have any specific
beliefs, but it's a way of life.
And how do I want to think about things?
Like, what is my perspective on things?
(37:07):
Are the issues really outwardly?
Is, is it really the outside pressurethat's the issue or is it the
expectation I have towards myselfand the pressure I give to myself?
And so I started to makethose modifications and I
started to examine myself.
And then when the, when the blame isnot pointing outwardly, then I have more
(37:29):
control with what I want to do internally.
Um, so it's been a whole journey andthat's really helped me tremendously.
And I've forgotten like what I usedto do to myself when I was alone.
Like, and I mean, I didn't really like.
It wasn't anything too too dark,but I was going through a whole lot
(37:52):
of turmoil when I was by myself.
Um, there was a lot of fear, but when Istarted to also look at the fear and then
work on that internal fear, it's like,Hey, actually fear is just an illusion.
It's actually not real.
And part of what fear, how fear can reallytake over, uh, somebody or took over
(38:14):
me at the time is that it felt so real.
And that's what drove OCD is to thinkthat I have to do these things to prevent
something from happening, where thereality was, I don't have that control.
But it's not real, like I don'thave that control to undo, you know,
something undo a scary thought orprevent scary things from happening.
(38:37):
So, and even, and now that I'mlearning to, to, to kind of be more
in control of one's thinking in a way.
It's like, even if somethinghappens, it doesn't have to be scary.
It doesn't have to, I don'thave to react with fear.
I don't have to think of that insuch a negative way that maybe
(38:58):
there's a positive way to view it.
Maybe I can view with appreciation.
I can view the blessings behind it.
So like what drove that fearwas also scary things, right?
Things are scary.
I don't want things to happen,but even if those things happen,
it doesn't have to be scary.
And so like gradually, graduallykind of working on my perspective and
(39:18):
working on myself and working on thefear working and unknowingly, then the
OCD started to diminish when I startedto just ignore like not not give into
those patterns of wanting to you.
In a way control scary thingsto and and not let them happen.
Um, and so the pattern started to goaway and it's like coming out of it.
(39:40):
Then I can talk about it, right?
I didn't even want to talkabout this with my parents.
And now I can talk aboutthis in the podcast.
So I want to share with peoplethat maybe that's part of the
purpose, my purpose in life.
It's like, or all of our purposes,whatever we've gone through,
we come out of it strongerand maybe with more clarity.
And we can share with other people that.
(40:01):
What you're going through, Iunderstand, and it can be overcome,
and it's very, very hopeful.
Um, at the time, actually, when I was inhigh school, I Googled OCD, and then, I
don't know, maybe the, maybe the resultshave changed, but at the time, the
Google results say, oh, it's not curable.
I was like, oh, no, I reallyjust was so defeated seeing that.
(40:26):
Um, maybe it's changed.
Maybe.
Or maybe I just focused onthe negative thing that and
then I got really overwhelmed.
Um, so, yeah, it's been a wholejourney, but I'm really, really
grateful, even for the anxiety, becauseI think it can be very meaningful.
(40:47):
If we've overcome it, then maybeother people sense the hope
and what they're going through.
Yeah, 100%, right.
And, uh, I Thank you for sharingthat and I also with what I do to
often in OCD is like, even anxietyis like, it's a sense of, I need
(41:13):
to make sure everything is okay.
Yeah, so it's a safety thing, you know,and I, when we have when we feel safer
because we have people in our lifethat can help us, we have community
that helps in the healing process.
but.
And I often say this to people too,we're not meant to live this life alone.
(41:37):
We need to find community and whetheryour community looks like your
therapist, maybe it's a body worker.
Hopefully you have some friends.
I know a lot of immigrants havea hard time, especially when they
come to a new country as an adult.
They have a hard time makingfriends, finding community.
But I often tell people, try andfind community, however that looks
(42:00):
like for you, because then, What isgoing on in your mind won't feel so
scary, because then you have peoplethat you can share that with, say
people that you can share that with.
Exactly.
Yeah, then we don't feellike we're so alone.
And we have the mutual support andencouragement and understanding.
(42:23):
Yeah.
A couple more questions for you.
Yeah.
Let's talk about food.
Yeah.
Let's talk about it.
Let's talk about food because inour culture, food is so important.
So much significance to it.
(42:45):
And especially, with your book, ToHome in a Lunchbox, it's the food that
helps., I would love to know favoritefood that are meaningful for you?
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Favorite food.
The first thing thatcomes to mind is youtiao.
Oh, youtiao.
Oh, how do we, okay, please, howdo we describe what youtiao is to
(43:07):
the listeners who are not Chinese?
You Tiao, You Tiao it's like along piece of dough that you deep
fry, and it comes out so crispyand nice and how do you describe
crispy and fluffy at the same time?
How do you eat YouTiao?
In Singapore, we I dip it in coffeewith sweetened condensed milk.
(43:29):
Uh huh, or we put it in congee inZhou Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
I've never heard of it eaten with coffee,like dip it in coffee in Singapore.
Oh, look, I'm older than you.
, they still do it now.
But when I was growing up in the 70sand 80s, the coffee you can get it
(43:50):
black, you can get it black with sugaror with sweetened condensed milk.
Uh, like how theVietnamese people drink it.
So to dip it in sweetened condensedmilk and coffee, and then you eat
it, it's like that crispy youtiao andthen that sweetness from the coffee.
It's so good.
(44:11):
You have to try it one day.
That sounded like a taglinefrom an advertisement.
Sounded so good.
You made me hungry.
Can you get it easily?
Yeah, there is a Chinese supermarket.
It's not so close, but it's,it's a driving distance.
(44:34):
And so it's it's kind of kind of a rarity,you know, if I don't want to drive too
far, then, you know, that's a rarity.
Uh, any, any other food besides youtiao?
I like, um, hóngdòutāng.
Yeah, sweet red soup.
(44:57):
Very good.
And that brings about alot of childhood memories.
Um, that was like a specialtreat, a special breakfast.
So it really reminds me ofhome when I eat hóngdòutāng.
It's interesting, right, to hear yousay that was a treat, because my mom
would make that almost every day.
That or, that or, or Lü DouTang,, mung bean soup with
(45:21):
sugar in it, with rock sugar.
But, because in Chinese medicinetheory, too, is that, The mung beans
help to dispel heat and dampness andSingapore is a hot and damp country.
So we would have it almost every day.
Wow.
Yeah, I definitely sense thegreen, the mung bean helps me to
(45:45):
get rid of the heat in my body.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Cool.
, So, I know you talk a bit aboutyour second book just now.
Would you share a bit more . sure.
Um, my second book is not yet announced,but it is about my mental health journey.
(46:07):
It is about overcoming.
Fear and anxiety, um, so I'veshared quite a bit about my journey.
And so I'm translatingthat into a picture book.
And of course it's not, it'sgoing to be in a way that is, it's
going to be in a way where kidscan understand and feel comforted
(46:32):
that I look forward to that book.
Thank you.
Last question of the podcast isalways, any advice that comes to
you, maybe for kids who are immigrantor kids dealing with anxiety?
Yeah, um, for kids who areimmigrants, maybe I would just
(46:55):
share that this is really temporary,that they feel out of place.
This is definitely just partof the process and eventually
you'll find your place.
And so don't feel alone, like don'tfeel, um, like defeated or don't need
to feel lonely, even if right now youdo feel that way, it's going to be
(47:16):
temporary and everything will be okay.
Um, and for kids with anxiety, Iwould probably share that what you're
going through is really not easy andI understand and also know that I've
been through the same thing and it isa, you can, you can break through it.
(47:37):
You can overcome it.
It's possible.
It doesn't need to defeat us.
It can make us stronger.
And I think having anxiety or havinghave had anxiety, it's really helped
me become much stronger and alsomuch more empathetic towards others.
So it can be a gift, what we'regoing through the challenges
that we are going through.
(48:02):
Thank you, Cherry.
Thank you, Patricia.
Hmm, what a great conversation.
And I agree with Cherrythat, having anxiety.
It's tough and.
You can overcome it.
(48:22):
It is possible.
If you are listening to this and youhave anxiety and anxious thoughts.
Know that it is normal.
I often tell clients that if youmeet someone and they tell you
that they're never anxious, Either.
(48:43):
They're in denial or they're nottelling you the truth because
all of us have anxious thoughts.
From time to time.
Now, but if your anxiety is debilitating.
You cannot go out and do thingsand you have panic attacks.
Please seek help.
(49:04):
What helps for me when I have.
Anxiety when I have anxious thoughts.
Is I reached for my tools.
Things like sitting down, slowing down.
Paying attention to the.
Warm beverage that I am drinking.
Noticing how it feelsgoing down my throat.
(49:27):
Going for a walk in nature, touching.
The furniture helps me touching somethingsoft also helps me because anxiety
is often us thinking ruminating onthings that either hasn't happened.
Or has happened and we are thinkingabout how we should have done
(49:51):
it and what we could have said.
Touching something solid bringsyou back to the present moment.
So be gentle with yourself.
And share, share with people that youtrust when you're having difficult days.
Take good care of yourself.
(50:12):
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapetersen.
(50:33):
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
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