September 4, 2024 • 52 mins
Content warning: the conversation touches on sensitive topics like suicide.
In this episode, I welcome Vera Cheng, a seasoned social worker, psychotherapist, and founder of 'Talk Therapy with Vera.' We discuss Vera's immigration journey from Hong Kong to Toronto, her challenges with bullying and racism, and her career in mental health.
The conversation also covers the impact of anti-Asian racism, setting boundaries as Asian women, and the importance of internal validation. Vera shares her experiences with therapy and building a private practice, offering valuable advice for new therapists. The episode emphasizes the significance of self-care, community support, and addressing internal conflicts to lead a fulfilling life.
Follow Vera Cheng
Bio:
Vera Cheng is a registered social worker, psychotherapist, seasoned speaker, and the founder of Talk Therapy with Vera. With over 15 years of devoted work in mental health and racialized communities, she is a leading expert in mental health and anti-Asian racism, featured in renowned media outlets such as CBC NEWS, CP24 and CTV NEWS. In addition, she partnered with the Canadian Mental Health Association and featured in a provincial mental health campaign. As a Chinese-Canadian immigrant, she has honed her practice beyond therapy sessions into community engagement, advocacy and fighting against Asian hate. She is passionate about mental health awareness, primarily through anxiety, which she has struggled with. Sharing her journey helps reduce mental health stigma in the hopes of helping others overcome their struggles, too. Talk Therapy with Vera is deeply rooted in the "Healing Lens," with the anti-oppressive framework addressing anti-Asian racism through attachment, client-centred, self-compassionate and trauma-informed approaches. She engages with her clients collaboratively and empathically to improve their self-awareness and make positive, goal-directed life changes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hello friends.
Welcome to another episode ofconversations with your Chinese auntie.
YiYi.
That's me.
I am YiYi A reminderthat the online offering.
Community for Asian women.
Early, bird pricing ends on September 8th.
So if you're interestedor if you know anyone.
(00:23):
Who can benefit from.
An online community.
Make friends feel less lonely.
Learn how to show up foreach other and for yourself.
Please join us.
And please share with your community.
(00:46):
in this episode, I am so excited towelcome Vera Cheng Vera is a registered
social worker, psychotherapist,seasoned speaker, and the founder
of talk therapy with Vera.
She's been in the field for 15years and she's been featured
in different media outlets.
(01:07):
Vera immigrated from Hong Kong to Toronto.
And in this episode, we talk about.
her, Family, her culture,setting boundaries as an
Asian woman with her family.
And content warning.
there is talk of suicide.
As Vera share her own mental health.
(01:30):
journey.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
Oh, good morning, Vera.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thanks for saying yes.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
And we've known each otheron Instagram for a while.
This is great.
Who say you cannot makefriends on Instagram, right?
(01:50):
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Like I have so many people follow me andthey also, they actually become a client.
Because they have seen, they've seenmy content and it really resonates.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah.
So first question of thepodcast is always, who are you?
What do you do?
Where you're from?
Where you live?
Anything that comes up foryou that you want to share?
(02:13):
Sure.
Um, I'm Vera.
Um, and my traditional name,I do have a Chinese name.
Um, it's YN.
I don't normally use it, but I doput it as Part of my branding or,
um, on my receipts, uh, for my,like, my invoices to my clients.
Um, I was born in Hong Kong,um, moved here to Toronto.
(02:36):
We've been living herefor like 30 years now.
Three decades, actually, with my family.
And my pronouns is she and her.
So when we first moved here, um,it was during the wintertime.
30 years ago, the wintertimewas completely different.
Like, so in Hong Kong, I never reallyexperienced like minus, like, you know,
(02:58):
minus degree and there was no snow.
But when we first moved here, it waswinter where the snow was up to my knees.
And yes, and um, it was quite hardbecause, obvious from what I gather,
my, we were also living with my, Uh,my aunt, my mom's sister temporary just
for saddling in um, and My parents hadto like watch me and my sister walk to
(03:24):
the school But they're like really faraway just so that we can practice to
be on our own And I remember I remembermy mom telling me it really hurts her
because obviously it's so hard Havingyour child to walk in a snow in the snow
and completely different weather But wealso did not have I don't remember we
were to have like proper winter jacket.
(03:45):
Um, You Because in HongKong we have uniforms.
So like every day we wear the same thing.
And at that time, in elementary school,even though it was a Catholic elementary
school, but we were able to wear likenormal, like, you know, like col,
like different clothing every day.
So it was completely shifted.
Obviously it was definitely hard becauseEnglish was definitely my second, my
(04:09):
second language, I had to go through ESL.
Um, in elementary school and then sixmonths later, my family, my family
actually moved down to Scarborough.
So, because we were living inRichmond Hill for the first six
months where there's a lot ofAsian, there's a lot of Chinese.
So, and then when we moved to Scarborough,It was more diverse, but there wasn't
(04:31):
a lot of, there was not, there wasnot much Chinese people were able to
communicate like in Cantonese or anything.
So that part was kind of hardbecause then like I, there was
also no ESL in that school.
There were special needs, but thenwe weren't special needs because
we just needed the ESL course, theclass to help us brush a language.
(04:57):
Because when I, when we first moved herein Richmond Hill, My ESL, well, my sister
and my ESL teacher, she was Chinese.
So it was very helpful to, for herto help me, you know, with like
our English or like communication,grammar, et cetera, et cetera.
Um, but I do remember like beingin elementary and high school
(05:20):
here, I did deal with like a lotof bullying, like as a victim.
I'm not, I wasn't a bullier,but I was being a victim.
I think what it was is becausethere was, you know, our parents.
You know, our immigrant parents haveto make ends meet, so they always
constantly go to work, and we werejust, me and my sister, we're just
being left alone, like on our own.
Um, we didn't have money to dolike summer camp, or like doing
(05:43):
like those like uh, extracurricularclasses, like after school.
We just don't, we just don'thave that kind of money.
So, and we would be constantly likepranking, like doing phone call prank,
like to like, I know that's bad,
and when we get in trouble for it,because I was like seeking attention.
(06:04):
But then again, I also learnedto stop because obviously I
know I know it's not nice.
But I think that's, you know, oneof the thing that really stuck with
me I'm like, now looking back I'mlike, yeah, that ESL teacher for the
six months or four months when wemoved here that really stuck with me.
Sort of, how will they help me?
(06:26):
When nobody was able to, um, like,help me in the class so much.
I mean, in the class, there were someAsian students, but then again, it
just said, there's also the separation.
There is the, you know, the land,the immigrant, and there's also the
CPC, the, the, I think there's alsothat, like, looking upon, looking down
(06:48):
upon you when you're, when you're,when you're, like, the immigrant.
And why are you dressing like thesame every day because, you know,
like that's because I rememberlike growing like before moving
in Canada would buy like multiple.
My parents would, my mom wouldbuy the multiple items, like the
same thing, like just like, youknow, you know exactly what I mean.
(07:10):
Yeah, you're like, you're like nodding.
100 percent because it's.
Oftentimes cheaper and it's easier.
Yeah, it's definitely easier.
Right.
And then, then I had people like, why areyou wearing the same thing all the time?
I'm like, that's all I have.
Like, I don't know, like, what else?
(07:30):
What else do you want?
Like, I mean, like, we didn't buyany clothing, except winter boots,
because we needed winter boots.
It's interesting, right?
Because now, now you hear, you seearticles where they say that the most
successful people only have a few clothesin their closet and it's all the same,
(07:53):
either the same color or different colors.
And then you and I get, you know,teased when we were younger for
wearing the same thing, you know,because our parents shop that way.
How old is your sister younger?
She's, uh, yeah, she'sa year younger than me.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So there was two, two.
Yeah, so just like therewas like similar age gaps.
(08:15):
So we were basically likesort of fending for ourselves.
So, um, in a way, like obviously,even though we're in different
classes, I can't really support herbecause she's in a different class.
I'm in a different class.
So, but we were very used to like, Iwould hang out with her during recess.
Um, you know, just to help herout because we would get bully
(08:37):
or our English wasn't great.
We have no idea whatthey were talking about.
And I didn't even know thatlike that was like the F word.
It was a swearing word.
I had no idea because I heard likemy classmate was like singing it.
So I started saying it to mycousin because I was living
with my cousin at the same time.
(08:58):
But I really had no idea what it meant.
Did you get into trouble?
Um,
I think my aunt and uncle reallyunderstood because obviously we
had no idea what it really meant.
Like we had no idea that was aswearing bad word until I got
older and I'm like, Oh yeah, okay.
(09:21):
That's a bad word, because mycousins were definitely younger,
like way younger than us.
So, um,
you know, I'm curious.
Before I ask this question, Ialways like to tell people a long
time ago I wrote a blog about this.
If you know, an immigrant.
(09:42):
From a hot country, and they'removing, then they move to Canada,
teach them how to dress for the winter.
Because you think you just put ona thick jacket and you're fine,
but sometimes you need layerings.
That's right, that's right.
Does, does, like in Vancouverversus where you are, very different
(10:05):
kind of layerings would work.
Oh for sure, of course.
Right, so I always think, if youhave the opportunity, PSA, Like
inform an immigrant how to dress,yeah, two hats, the whole thing.
But I digress.
Uh, I'm curious, when yourparents immigrated here, did
(10:27):
the grandparents come too?
No, no, because I think my mom justreally just, just the four of us.
Have you been back to Hong Kong?
Uh, yes, but that was about,what, I think like 10 years ago.
I don't really go back thatoften, to be honest with you.
Like, I have been, like, in thepast, um, a few times throughout,
(10:48):
like, the last 30 years.
But it's also, like, when I go back,it's a completely different environment.
Like, different environment.
Everything is so crowded.
It's just, like, or, um, Or there aretimes that, like, my English, sorry, my
Cantonese is not fluent because I don'treally practice it, I don't really have
much of a Cantonese, like, uh, friends.
(11:10):
I would understand it, but the onlytime I'm able to practice it is
only when I used to work at Chineseagency, like community organization.
That's when I was able to practicewith clients or with my colleagues.
And I also had to do, like,therapy in Cantonese when I used
to work in agency, but I don't.
Right now I don't do therapy in Cantonese.
I can understand if they wantto say like some words or some
(11:32):
like some some statements.
Sure.
I understand.
I totally get whatthey're what they're mean.
Um, yeah, but like, going back, it'slike, it's just like the weather,
like, I'm not used to the weather.
I've been asked, would you everwant to move back and live there?
And I'm like, if I moveback to live there.
That's because I'm I'm have myeducation background as a social worker.
(11:54):
I would have to learn everything andlike the policy is different, you
know, the language and everything.
And, and there's no way of me doingthis big adjustment change unless I have
like, unless I work in a different field.
And that's completely different.
Um, there's no way I would be ableto do like, They're being Cantonese.
(12:16):
They're just, like I said, there'scertain terms I can't even do it.
Like, I'm just like, I don'tknow what it means, you know,
or I don't know how to say it.
So bear with me while I'm trying tolike figure it out in my head and then
trying to figure out how to say itso that my client can understand it.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I've been approached a fewtimes because I speak Mandarin.
Okay.
(12:36):
But, you know, I, my parents are no longeralive, so I don't practice with them.
Right.
I have a lot of Chinese friends, buta lot of them were brought up here, so
they don't speak the language either.
And I've been approached a fewtimes, uh, by potential clients
to work with their parents.
Right.
(12:56):
Right.
Right.
And I'm like, I can't do it.
I can't do therapy in Chinesebecause I wouldn't be able to
say the terms, the phrases.
For sure.
Agree.
Yeah.
And I, and I refer them out becauseI'm like, yeah, better that way.
So I agree.
How did you?
Yeah.
Share your journey a bit.
How did you become apsychotherapist social worker?
(13:17):
Social worker.
So when I first moved here, like Isaid, we've experienced like I've
experienced a lot of bullying, but Ialso was, we were also experiencing
a lot of racism and discrimination,which really impacted my mental health.
Um, and We're gonna do alittle bit self disclosure.
(13:39):
It could be also triggering becausethere are times that there will be times
that I have like a lot of, you know,attempts to hide myself, uh, thoughts.
But obviously it never really, likeit didn't work, like on the attempt
and, and, and, and thinking about it.
And I think that was alsothe lack of resource.
I didn't know where to go for help.
(14:00):
Where am I supposed to go for help?
Sure, I know that there's help atschool, but it wasn't fully advertised.
I don't, I guess back then.
I mean, and then it really primed me.
Okay, well, maybe I should,well, first I would get my Okay.
I did one year for sociology at York,and then I'm like, okay, well, like,
after I do my sociology kind of work,like a career, can I get out of it?
(14:24):
I can't, because it's so broad.
So then I'm like, let me narrow it down.
Well, social work and sociology, there'ssome, like, similar, some of the courses.
are quite similar.
Let me knead it down to social work.
So eventually I went to Ryerson.
Now this is called TMUfor, um, did my undergrad.
I worked a little bit and theneventually did my master of social work.
(14:45):
Um, that was about graduate 10 years ago.
So then that's when I start doingmore like case management and more
counseling, um, at family healthteam or like different organization.
Then eventually.
At the beginning of COVID, that wasfour, four and a half years ago.
That's when I asked, like, I'm going tostart routing out to do my own private
(15:07):
practice because at that time, myjob situation didn't really work out.
I've always wanted to do my privatepractice as talk therapy would
like, I mean, that's how I'm born.
I talk therapy with Vera.
It really pushed me to dofull time because I was just
like, let's just do part time.
But then the pandemic hit, everythingwas just virtual and I was just getting
like tons and tons of clients coming in.
(15:28):
I was really, I was really burnedout like the last couple of years.
It's great.
I was getting busy.
I was getting tons of clients, butI was also learning on how to become
a business, like an entrepreneur.
Nobody taught us how to becomean entrepreneur during my
Master of Social Work, right?
And, um, because in, within socialwork, yes, there's many different
(15:49):
fields, but we're also able to docounseling with, like, with, um, with
clients, and I think that's how Iwas able to, like, born, I mean, um,
create the Talk Therapy with Vera.
Even right now, like I don't justdo counseling or like psychotherapy.
I also do like speaking engagement,um, you know, talking about mental
(16:11):
health and anti-Asian racism.
'cause that's like my main, um,like my main, uh, like my main
topic, it's anti-Asian racism.
That's how.
I was also doing like media expert whatthat means that I've been featured on
like many different outlet media outleton tv talking about anti Asian racism
(16:32):
and how it really impacts mental healthduring COVID but we also know that anti
Asian racism did not just start at COVIDright it started like long long long
time ago which I think a lot of peoplethey don't They didn't really know
how it happened, how it all started.
So it's also great to do that.
But I'm also doing like atherapist coaching, a coaching new
(16:53):
therapist who wants to get intoprivate practice as like a side.
And I've been like approached to do,um, Promoting a potential mental health
program with one of a big organization.
Because what happened is, they sawa lot of my content on Instagram.
So I've been getting approached todo speaking, to be on the media,
(17:15):
to do like all of these things.
It really opens up the opportunity for me.
That's great.
I mean, it's Get out there andtalk about these things that
especially like anti Asian racism.
I agree with you.
It was there.
It just wasn't as it becamemore prevalent during COVID
it was just like.
(17:38):
Yeah, it was pretty, it waspretty bad in Vancouver too.
Of course, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's where the major cities,especially the major city where
like a lot of Asian resides, right?
Those are the big, those, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh,
with your work, let's do, you know,let's dive into anti Asian racism.
(18:01):
Sure.
Since, since we're on the topic.
With what you, you've done and yourexperience and stuff like that, what
comes to top of mind if, you know,for Asians, if they, if they're
concerned about racism, um, or,well, let's go with that first.
Like, what advice would you give?
(18:25):
When they, sorry, what do you mean?
You meant like when they Like ifthey're, when they experience it,
or if they're concerned about it.
Well, rather than shuffle it downand not talk about it, right, I think
you want to be able to talk, find asupport, I mean, find a support network
or system that you feel comfortablediscussing what happened to you.
(18:47):
I think that's important becauseobviously it will definitely
impact your mental health.
And during COVID, I have hadclients coming up to, you know,
came to me and tell me, like,what their experiences was like.
And, and, and how it really impacted theirmental health, not just as an adult, but
also as a kid, what they went through.
Because obviously, as akid, they didn't know it.
(19:09):
I mean, they didn't knowwhere to go for help, or, you
know, where to go for support.
Like, how I didn't know where to go forsupport when I was bullied as a kid.
And it's, and it's, and it sucks.
And obviously, like, as me, being aneducator trying to help, you know,
teach the society on how to dismantleanti Asian racism, I think it's one
thing that recognize if you're thevictim, I think it's also remember
(19:35):
that, like, it's not your fault.
I think a lot of times that they, wetry to shift it to think, to internalize
or personalize that it's our faultthat this happened, but it's not.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I'd love that.
And then what would you say, or whatdo you say to organizations who was
(20:00):
like, Oh, we want to be diverse.
You know, the organizations waslike, we want to be inclusive,
DEI, things like that.
What would you say to them to help?
You're smart.
Well, in my, in my, um, presentation,I, I talk about the history of
(20:22):
how, like, in the present of,like, what's been happening.
But I also talk about howour positionality, plevages,
and intersectionality, it'sall intertwined together.
And I always showed a videoof how it's all co relate and,
and get them to reflect that.
Your story, your narrative or yourstory or how your own intersection
(20:46):
can also impact other people.
You might not feel that, you know,you might not, oftentimes I find
that a lot of people don't reallyreflect until I actually brought on
the video and show them the video.
I'm like, this is how you, this is howyou need, really need to reflect on
your own behavior and your own biases.
(21:06):
That's quite important.
Right?
Because you probably, you might belearning your, like, your biases, or
the way of how you treat people basedon, like, seeing other people, treated
other people, or like through class,I'm just saying, through school, per se.
And without the challenge beingbeing able to challenge your own
(21:30):
biases, how you're supposed to learnand how you're supposed to grow.
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna justswitch here a bit because I know
you do work with a lot of Asians.
Yeah, I often talk about withmy, so most of my clients are
also Asians, or women of color.
And I often talk about boundariesare very different for those of
(21:55):
us who come from a collectivistculture versus how boundaries.
It's view in a Westernindividualistic culture.
What's your take on it?
That's a good question.
Because in, well, first ofall, my majority of my clients
(22:15):
are also Asian as well.
Um, but the thing yousaid, yeah, you're right.
Because the boundaries, it's morelike the Westernized versus in the
Asian culture or like other culture.
It's more, No, like, whatare you talking about, right?
Like, you know, like, there's noboundaries, especially with our parents,
(22:35):
like, what are you talking about?
They don't like to hear the word no.
Because once they hear the word no,they get quite reactive and they
try to manipulate you and blame youand like, doing all sorts of things.
And I always tell my client, I'm like,well, But you have the ability and
and the agency to make a change ofhow you want it to look for your life.
You're not living, you're not loving theirlife share they have their own expectation
(22:58):
or they may project on this petition onto you, but You have the ability to make
a change, and it's hard, definitely hardto teach my clients boundaries, um, to
get used to making that change, but I alsofind that if they don't, like, if whoever,
like, the other side don't like to hearthe word no has nothing to do with you,
(23:20):
because they're just not getting whatthey want, and they don't understand,
it doesn't mean that you have to teachthem what it means, what it meant.
Like what it meant to say No.
So, for example, like I always share withmy client, like I set my boundaries with
my parents, whether they like it or not,it doesn't really matter at this point.
Yes, they will manipulate me,but at the same time I'm like,
(23:43):
I also need to live my life.
I need to be able to take care of myself.
Do you find in your experience,and I I'll share my experience with
setting boundaries with my mom, uh,after this, but do you, did, do you
find in your experience when youset boundaries with your parents.
One, does it get easier?
(24:04):
And two, do they eventually kindof soften and goes, Oh, okay,
we won't push them as much.
I think eventually they have to accept it.
They can't just keep pushing, they haveto, because if they keep pushing, it's
just gonna, it makes me, it makes mepulled away, right, there's a, there's
a push and pull, and, and oftentimesthat I'll just, I'll just worry about
(24:30):
calling them, like, I'm just going tomake a choice of not calling them and
keep, and not contacting them, if theyneed something from me, I'm sure they'll
contact me, or if I need something,yes, I'll contact them, but I'm not
going to be constant, like every week,or every day I had to do a check in.
Okay.
Thank you.
There are times that my momlikes to overshare stuff
(24:52):
because I know she's lonely.
She has nobody to talk to, but I alwayshave to, I always have to stop it.
Like, I don't want to hear it.
Like, you know, if you're not goingto do anything to make a change,
et cetera, I don't want to hear itbecause I, I listen to, I listen
to, like, I do work with my client.
So I'm already, you know, like, I'malready drained as it is already.
I don't even need to be drained by you.
(25:15):
So like, sometimes, like, when mymom called, when my parents call,
I'm like, Oh, I'm just eating dinner.
I don't feel like picking up, youknow, like they can leave a message.
Or if it's important, they'll like, ifit's important, they'll just tell me,
like, they'll just text, like, WhatsAppme and call me as soon as possible.
But usually when I listen to themessage, it's not that important.
I'm like, oh, okay,well, you guys can wait.
(25:37):
Yeah, and you know, and I would, Iwould just say here that it, it takes
a lot of work to get there, right?
Because especially in ourculture, in the Chinese culture,
there's so much guilt there.
And it just takes a lot of work toget there, to go, okay, you know
what, I know you're my parents.
I respect you, but I can't do this.
(26:00):
Yeah, I'll just share this.
This is for fun.
I'll share this with you at the audience.
So my, my sister has onechild, my niece and she was,
my niece was baptized in Spain.
So the whole family went to Spain.
My sister, her first husband, myniece, when she, when she was six
months old, my parents and myself,this was many, many years ago.
(26:22):
And we went to Spain, the whole family.
Bad idea.
Two elderly parents from a drivefrom Barcelona to the south of Spain.
That was already too long.
We got to Spain and my motherused to be, she was a complainer.
She would complain about everything.
But she also, my mother also did whata lot of Chinese parents do, especially
(26:43):
mothers, is she poked at your wind.
Yup.
And my mother, my niecewas six months old.
My mother looked at my niece andshe said, imagine, she's like,
Oh, you're such a fat little baby.
And my sister and I just lookedat her and I said to my mother,
no, enough, that's it, no more.
(27:06):
And my mother pouted and shewas, well, I was only joking,
I'm like, no, you did that to us.
You cannot do that to.
Yeah.
To your granddaughter.
Yeah.
To your granddaughter.
Yeah.
And so my mom, she went offpouting, pouting, pouted.
You know what?
She never did it again.
Till the day she died, never did it again.
It was, it was tough, but it was like,you know, eventually she figured it out.
(27:30):
Well, she has to, right?
Because it's not like she's old.
She's a baby.
How is she supposed to becontrolling her weight?
Like, I mean, like, it's also like, youknow, the baby can also feel your energy.
It can feed off of your, yourenergy and you don't talk, etc.
You can't communicate,but they can feel it.
Right.
And it's quite toxic when you're, yeah.
(27:52):
So toxic.
So toxic.
Yeah.
When you look back at your life, has therebeen a few people that stood up that have
you looked at and you're like, Oh yeah,they've guided me or they were helpful.
(28:15):
Um,
well, I've been in therapyfor many years now.
And I have the same clinical supervisor,my mentor, for a number of years.
Um, So I was working with my mentorfirst, uh, to do clinical consultation
for cases, um, I think like, I count likefive, maybe more than five years ago.
(28:40):
So, so, but I remember also I was gettingquite triggered when I'm doing, like,
when I'm working with certain clients,basically, that I would get triggered.
I wouldn't, I didn't even know,I didn't even know why, and then
until we sort of figured it out.
Why I was getting triggered, um, andthen, and then she referred me to
my therapist, my current therapist.
(29:02):
So they work hand in hand together,me and my therapist and my mentor.
They don't, they're not like, they'recolleagues, but they work hand in hand.
What that means, it's like,they're really direct.
They understand my triggers andthey know how to, um, support me.
So, like, if If during myconsultation with my mentor.
Okay, this is something an issue thatyou need to talk to your therapist
(29:23):
about to work through this issue.
Um, because both of them are quitedirect, like they don't they don't
they don't they don't take bullshit.
And I also learned that in my, in mysession with my client when I work with
them I told him like I'm quite direct.
If I hear something that's not rightor something that's wrong I will
tell you, because I'm not going to.
(29:45):
tell you what you want to hear.
And, and because if it's wrong,you need to know it's wrong.
If it's good, sure.
Like I'll validate you, but I'm alsonot going to be like, I'm also like,
I also have my, like, I will followto my clients when, when it's about
time, when it's the right time.
That's how my, how my therapist, mymentor were sort of like reminding
(30:09):
me, like, I would hear their voicethat they would tell me how proud
they were of me because of like allthe achievement that I have done.
Instead of me seekingvalidation from my mom.
Forget that.
Forget that, because like, she will, butlike, but it's always been so critical,
you know, like, we always grew up,like, we grew up, like, without critical
parents, it also makes, like, at leastmake me feel that I'm not good enough.
(30:32):
So, but then, like, with my mentor, mytherapist, they will pull out information
about the fact that, oh, yeah, like,I got to, whenever, like, whenever I'm
beating myself down, beating myself up,I would always, uh, Think about what they
would say about how proud they were of mebecause of all the things that I've done.
(30:52):
So I'm always looking up to them.
That's great to have people likethat to support you on your journey.
Very important.
Like, and I'm still like, I'mstill working with my therapist.
I'm still working with my mentorand, and it's, and it's great.
Which I think is so important,especially for the work that we do.
(31:15):
You need to get the constant support sothat you can show up for your clients.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
For sure.
Because I would like, I don'tknow why I'm getting triggered.
Well, I think I know, but I'm not sure.
But let me talk about it inmy session, or even with my,
with my therapist or my mentor.
Well, yeah, because how longhave you been a social worker?
(31:37):
I have, I've been a social worker forthe last, what, 17, like 17 years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, because then, you know, I'm sureyou, you get this too, is that because
if you don't look at your own stuff,it shows up and then it's, that's the
whole transfer and counselor transfer.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
And then you can't showup for your clients.
(31:58):
A hundred percent.
No, no, no.
Or like, Oh, I got to be ableto like, put my issue aside.
I got to focus on my clientfirst and I can, I can work on my
issues with my therapist, as well.
My mentor, after the sessions,when my client is finished, right.
Yeah, you know, and I often say thiswhen I was a yoga teacher for a few
(32:20):
years and I said this to people whocome up to me and say, Oh, I want
to be a yoga teacher, what do I do.
Recently I was talking to a fewyoung people was I want to be a
therapist, what do we do and Ialways give them the same advice.
It's not about you duringsessions, it's never about.
It's about the clientsand if things shows up.
(32:40):
You need to have a therapistthat you see on a regular basis
to work on it, to work on it.
I was talking to a young person and theywere like, but I want to help people.
I'm like, yeah, but youneed to have therapy.
regular supervision and care.
That's right.
That's right.
They were like, Oh, I thinkI turned them off constantly.
(33:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You want to help people, but you'llneed, you also need to build up the
skills of how you can support the people.
It's not just because like, I want tohelp people all of a sudden, but like,
but if you have no background or trainingor experiences in therapy, how are you
really going to look, because then likeyour client will, your client pays you.
Like, you know, to provide asession, if you can help them.
(33:24):
Well, like you, well, and yeah,and also you need the resilience.
You need the life experiencesand you need the resilience.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
I mean, it took me a long,long time to rebuild that.
We see instead of not personalizingor like not taking nothing,
not take things serious.
Right.
(33:45):
Yeah, because I also have like clientthat will like make sometimes they
make me feel like I'm not good enough.
And then I'm like, No, no, no, no, that'snot true because I have a bunch of other
clients that I support and and I know howI can, and I know I'm doing a good job.
Right.
Yeah.
And I believe that you get thatyou really get that with Doing your
(34:09):
own work with life experiences.
That's right.
Because I often, so I was inChinese medicine for 14 years
before I became a therapist.
And I often say to my husband too, it'slike, I don't think I would be able to
be a therapist if I'm like 28 years old.
Because I wouldn't have had theresilience and the life experiences and
I wouldn't have, and I, I, at that timeI didn't do a lot of my internal work.
(34:34):
Right.
So I wouldn't.
So, but so then what I would do is if Ididn't do my internal work I would sit.
I will go, Oh, is it about me.
Yeah, right, but it's never about me.
What do you do for fun?
Um, so you probably have seen myInstagram that I have a bunny.
(34:57):
Oh my god, I love the bunny.
He's so cute.
He's like my baby.
I have him since he was six months old.
So he's like eight.
He's getting old, but he'slike the love of my life.
Um, I also like spendingtime with my nephew.
He's almost two, but, uh, yeah, yeah.
But I don't see him as much,um, because I live a little bit
(35:18):
further than where my family lives.
So, um, you also see me postinga lot of pictures with food,
like with going to restaurants.
I'm a huge foodie, so like I love.
food.
That's my main thing.
I do like, um, outdoor likeactivity where it's like hiking.
Hiking is my thing because I likegoing for like, I like walking,
but I also like hiking, likethe nature, but minus the bugs.
(35:40):
Oh, same.
Yeah, I can't stand mosquitoes and bugs.
Um, I do like, uh, road trips.
Like I love traveling.
Obviously, it's been quite hard.
Um, like during COVID,I didn't really travel.
As much and we started this year, then Istarted like traveling outside of Canada.
Um, I do like spending time withmy friends, uh, quite a bit.
(36:04):
And my family, I mean,
like, like, not so much like people werelike, aren't you close to your family?
I'm like, yeah.
No, we're good.
Like we're very service.
Like if I, you know, if the wanting tosee me to go like, you know, to go for
like to hang out shore or like, you know,if like, okay, let's just say I want to
(36:27):
go take my parents out for lunch or fordinner or like, like, hang out with them.
I'll do the same becauseobviously they're lonely.
Like they're, you know,they're both retired.
So like, you know, they have alsobuilt like a life for me and my sister.
So let me at least sort of,um, you know, take them out.
Um, and.
(36:48):
I used to be more active, like when Isay active, we're like more sporty, um,
like dragon boating, playing like beachvolleyball, like doing like dodgeball,
but because I've been into multiple MVAs,so I have a lot of trauma in my body,
so I can't really be too active as well.
But I do like checking out cityevents within the, within the city.
(37:09):
Yeah.
Guys, well, you know what?
And before, before we started recording,I was saying that you need to come visit.
So I know I'm the same hiking and food.
So when you come, yeah,that's what we'll do.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Favorite food.
I don't really have a favorite becauselike I love like, I love Italian, Chinese,
(37:33):
but Chinese has to be traditional andnot the Americanized Chinese food.
Um, like Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese,Thai, or like French, Spanish food.
Like I love, like I lovetrying different kind of food.
Yeah.
What's the, thing.
https (37:47):
otter.
ai
Well, chicken balls and egg rolls.
Those are the Americanite.
Those are kind of like a lot of toomuch batter or like too much flour.
I mean, yeah, it's kind of gross.
Like, the traditional, like,I like my congee, right?
(38:08):
Like, I like my, like, my noodles.
Um, my ho fun, like my, myfried noodles, fried rice.
Or like, um, uh, like soup.
And it's I just like the congee isn'tmy comfort food growing up, right?
You know, like when you're sick, youknow, or like, you're not feeling
(38:29):
well, like I'll tell, I'll get my dad.
Well, my, when I used to livein Hong Kong, my grandma would,
would make the, would makecongee when I'm not feeling well.
But like, sometimes I'm,cause I live on my own.
I don't know how to, I don'treally, I don't, I don't really make
Chinese food to be honest with you.
Like, so like, if I really craving forChinese food, I'll ask my dad, dad,
can you just cook these food and hewill actually cook it and bring it.
(38:51):
So.
Congee for the listenersis, uh, rice porridge.
Yeah.
And it's just soothing thing, which, andalso I will say from a Chinese medicine
perspective, totally makes sense.
It tonifies you, tonifies yourspleen, nourish your body.
That's why it feels so good to eatit when you're not feeling well.
(39:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
I can talk about food all day.
Uh, and, um, so you do coaching too.
What are your advice for new therapistsor therapists wanting to start out?
Be patient with yourself.
I think one thing, really be patientbecause, um, it's like, you're, you're,
(39:36):
don't forget, like, you're competingwith so many different therapists right
now so that you really got to put inthe work of doing your own marketing.
What that means that you need to haveprofessional pictures, a website, a
psychology to your profile, but youalso have to be patient because like,
it took me, it took me at least sixmonths to build my like my full practice.
(40:04):
Being sad that but like back then likein 2020 everyone was so distressed like
was so in distress and had a lot ofmental health so I was quite busy but
I think you just said like don't expectlike you know one day that You know,
like you're going to have like 20 clientsper week, or I'm just saying, or like,
you know, even like 10 clients a week.
(40:25):
It's good as a start orlike five clients a week.
It's a good start because you alsowant to be able to do consultation,
making sure that they're a good fitwith you and, and, and, and, um,
and you're able to support them.
Cause I think a lot of new therapists,they come in with different expectation
(40:46):
and they think that, oh yeah, like,oh, like it's been three months.
Why is my practice so slow?
And then I would do like a, uh, a view oftheir profile, like, or even the picture.
I'm like, how do you expect,like, how do you expect clients to
work with you if you don't have aprofessional picture or your profile?
It's so jargoned with allthe, like, clinical terms.
(41:08):
They're not going to understand, right?
Well, it's so true because, youknow, like, It's because some people
think that by using the professionalterms, it makes them sound more
knowledgeable, but it's not true.
And, you know, I also think,okay, look, seriously, I'm
(41:31):
just aging myself too, because
the whole expecting somethingto happen right away.
My belief is, is because of life.
Internet, the social media,because the instant gratification,
for sure, for sure, for sure.
(41:52):
And we don't know how to wait anymore.
We don't know how to be patient.
I agree.
I agree.
Um, because like I said earlier, like,I didn't expect that I was going to, I
was going to get clients from Instagram.
And a lot of therapists who followsme will ask me like, Oh, how can
(42:12):
you be so confident on camera?
And How can you get clients?
Well, because I'm also being consistent,being on camera, showing up for myself,
showing up for my client, talking aboutmy own personal experiences, but also
don't forget when I did media, when Ialso have done media coaching in order
for me to get on TV, you know, on mediaoutlet, I also were able to, to continue
(42:35):
to build that confidence level and,and practice on how that I can show up.
Cause once you start showingup, And, and get your message
across, then slowly people willstart wanting to work with you.
But you also have to make surethat you might want to niche
it down on who your, who youraudience or who your target client.
(42:55):
You don't want to just like post anycontent information just because,
because you wanted to post it,but it doesn't, but it's sometimes
I'm really rad of it, right?
I would also add some people, I'mjust going to say this, you don't
do this, but I'm just going to saythis, but some people are oversharing.
(43:18):
You want to share what's relevant,but I also think not oversharing
because there's a responsibility astherapists, psychotherapists, social
workers, if you post on social media,there's a responsibility that you don't
trigger the people who are listening.
That's right.
Okay.
That's right.
You know, I like to say if you're goingto say something like that, if you know
(43:41):
it's going to be triggering, give awarning, content warning, important,
very important, very important.
I think a lot of some people, theyjust lack of that or they're not,
they don't know how to show up.
Right.
And, and they don't know, um,like being on social media, it's,
it's also, there's also strategy.
It's not just like, I'm going topost content, you know, like, you
(44:05):
know, once a week, and then I'mgoing to expect client will show up.
I'm going to expect more followers, right?
There's so many things behind thebackground that you, you have to learn.
How did you learn to be on social media?
I've seen, I've seen other, their bestto be on social media, so then I started
doing it on my own, um, in 2020, andthen I realized I can't do it because
(44:28):
I'm like seeing clients and being onsocial media, and I would just, I would
just, it would just weigh too much.
Then eventually I hired, um, a socialmedia manager to help me, and then I had
to go through like, this is my third one.
She's going to be my, I'm hopingshe will be the only one because
I'm hoping, I don't want tobe working with other people.
I'm very particular.
So she's been helping me.
(44:49):
I've been working with her for thelast, I would say two years now.
So we, we're quite successfulbecause we understand, like she
understood what my needs are.
She's helping me to like, you know,um, what I need to post, how do
I need to engage with my clients?
And there's also like strategy behind it.
Um, it's also like,it's also an investment.
Um, To, to invest.
(45:11):
Um, I didn't expect, to be honest, like Inever expected my, um, to gain clients or
gain like speaking engagement through thatuntil I'm like, Oh, it's actually working.
I'm happy.
So I was like, Hmm.
Okay.
So I need to keep up at it.
So many times, many days, I'm like,I don't want to be, I don't want to
be doing, I don't want to do a wheel.
(45:31):
I don't want to go on story, but I'mlike, well, if I'm not going to do it,
who's going to do it for me, you know?
And I love that.
You said this just now in thebeginning is that we didn't
learn how to be business owners.
Well, we did our masters.
Nobody taught us this.
And when my husband and I openeda clinic, um, years ago, we hired
(45:57):
a business coach for a few months.
And what she said to me was, ifyou are able to, the task that you
don't want to do, or you're notgood at, find someone else to do.
That's right.
I mean, financially, if you don't havethe money, that's a different matter.
But she said, but what she said was.
If you, if you can do that,because then you can direct your
(46:18):
energy into doing something else.
So I'm, yeah, it's great to hear that youhave someone that helps with social media.
I'm just aware of the time tolast, last question for you.
Any advice?
You can say you're also a Chinese auntie.
Any advice as a Chinese auntie,that was great to be Chinese auntie.
Um, I think one thing it's that whenyou're starting to doubt yourself.
(46:47):
Just remember that youare good enough, right?
Like even though that you're seeking thatexternal validation, whether it's from
your parents, from like your colleagues,from your boss, from your friends,
partner, et cetera, you got to be able to,you got to be able to validate yourself.
The validation needs tocome within yourself, right?
Because not in this, not, notall the time, you're going to
get validation from other people.
(47:09):
And if you're having trouble to tellyourself you're good enough, that's okay.
Then start thinking about allthe facts of things that you
have achieved in life, right?
That's quite important, because oftentimesthat we don't validate ourselves
enough, like we don't validate ourselvesenough, and we don't look at the
facts of the things that we have done.
(47:31):
And I'd love to see that list of thingsthat you've done that you like about
yourself because oftentimes this is,this is quite common right in clients.
Yeah.
Thanks.
You seek external validation.
You don't know how tobelieve in yourself anymore.
Um, I was going to askyou this, but I forgot.
(47:54):
Seriously, last question.
How does your community look like?
Who's in your community?
How does it look like?
Except Bunny, who elseis in the community?
My friends, for sure.
Who are quite my, who's great.
My, who's part of my great support system.
They know that.
Um what I do for a living so like theysometimes they try to like not to bother
(48:15):
me as much with their issue but theyquite understand me thank you like so
much um I would also say um my familylike my parents like they do understand
yes they annoy The heck out of me.
But they also understand how hardI work to, to get to where I am.
Because every time when I, when I tellthem, oh, like, mom, I'll be on TV, just
(48:38):
record it so you can watch it later.
I'm like, okay, I'll record it.
And they're so proud of me to be on TV.
But they have no idea what I talkabout, because it's all English.
This is what I was talking about,talking about mental health, mom.
Or they will start showingtheir, like, my, my aunt, like
that I've been on TV, etc.
And.
(48:58):
And I think when I'm coming,you know, another big part of my
colleagues that I was because we dolike pure, like, if I have any issue
questions, we support one another.
But I think at the same time, my therapistand my mentor, like I said earlier, the
quite, they're very important in my life.
I love that.
I love that.
(49:20):
Well, thank you verymuch for coming on today.
It was great to talk to you.
Yeah, thanks for having me today.
Hmm, such a great conversation withVera and great advice from her too.
When you start to doubt yourself.
Look at it.
See what's going on.
(49:42):
. A lot of us, especially those of us in the Chinese community.
And if you were born female,
We were taught from a young age that.
We didn't matter.
Our opinions didn't matter.
Our views didn't matter.
And then what happen is that validation.
Often came from grades.
(50:03):
How did you do in school?
Oh, you did.
Well, you got a gold star, youknow, And that's how we'd learn
to feel good about ourselves.
My suggestion is to change that becauseif we constantly see validation from
external sources and and other people.
(50:27):
You're not going to be able tofeel like you're good enough.
Yes.
I believe that sometimes it's good.
When you're having a bad day,you reach out to your friends
or you ask your partner.
For validation.
What do you love about me?
But.
A lot of that has to come from internal.
(50:50):
, I often tell clients.
Inner child.
Healing is huge.
I'm a firm believer in it because theparts of you that still believe that
you're not good enough without XYZ.
Those parts need to heal.
Look at what The ads often.
are about, they're trying to sellthings to make you feel better
(51:13):
about yourself, especially to women.
Oh, you're tired.
Here why don't youdrink this formulation.
Oh, Maybe this bag willhelp you feel better.
So start looking internally.
And reach out for help when you need to.
(51:33):
Thank you for listening.
Have a great week.
And please check out my offering.
Community for Asian women.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
(51:54):
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
(52:14):
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
Hello friends.
Welcome to another episode ofconversations with your Chinese auntie.
YiYi.
That's me.
I am YiYi A reminderthat the online offering.
Community for Asian women.
Early, bird pricing ends on September 8th.
So if you're interestedor if you know anyone.
(00:23):
Who can benefit from.
An online community.
Make friends feel less lonely.
Learn how to show up foreach other and for yourself.
Please join us.
And please share with your community.
(00:46):
in this episode, I am so excited towelcome Vera Cheng Vera is a registered
social worker, psychotherapist,seasoned speaker, and the founder
of talk therapy with Vera.
She's been in the field for 15years and she's been featured
in different media outlets.
(01:07):
Vera immigrated from Hong Kong to Toronto.
And in this episode, we talk about.
her, Family, her culture,setting boundaries as an
Asian woman with her family.
And content warning.
there is talk of suicide.
As Vera share her own mental health.
(01:30):
journey.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
Oh, good morning, Vera.
Welcome to the podcast.
Thanks for saying yes.
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
And we've known each otheron Instagram for a while.
This is great.
Who say you cannot makefriends on Instagram, right?
(01:50):
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
Like I have so many people follow me andthey also, they actually become a client.
Because they have seen, they've seenmy content and it really resonates.
Yeah, that's great.
Yeah.
So first question of thepodcast is always, who are you?
What do you do?
Where you're from?
Where you live?
Anything that comes up foryou that you want to share?
(02:13):
Sure.
Um, I'm Vera.
Um, and my traditional name,I do have a Chinese name.
Um, it's YN.
I don't normally use it, but I doput it as Part of my branding or,
um, on my receipts, uh, for my,like, my invoices to my clients.
Um, I was born in Hong Kong,um, moved here to Toronto.
(02:36):
We've been living herefor like 30 years now.
Three decades, actually, with my family.
And my pronouns is she and her.
So when we first moved here, um,it was during the wintertime.
30 years ago, the wintertimewas completely different.
Like, so in Hong Kong, I never reallyexperienced like minus, like, you know,
(02:58):
minus degree and there was no snow.
But when we first moved here, it waswinter where the snow was up to my knees.
And yes, and um, it was quite hardbecause, obvious from what I gather,
my, we were also living with my, Uh,my aunt, my mom's sister temporary just
for saddling in um, and My parents hadto like watch me and my sister walk to
(03:24):
the school But they're like really faraway just so that we can practice to
be on our own And I remember I remembermy mom telling me it really hurts her
because obviously it's so hard Havingyour child to walk in a snow in the snow
and completely different weather But wealso did not have I don't remember we
were to have like proper winter jacket.
(03:45):
Um, You Because in HongKong we have uniforms.
So like every day we wear the same thing.
And at that time, in elementary school,even though it was a Catholic elementary
school, but we were able to wear likenormal, like, you know, like col,
like different clothing every day.
So it was completely shifted.
Obviously it was definitely hard becauseEnglish was definitely my second, my
(04:09):
second language, I had to go through ESL.
Um, in elementary school and then sixmonths later, my family, my family
actually moved down to Scarborough.
So, because we were living inRichmond Hill for the first six
months where there's a lot ofAsian, there's a lot of Chinese.
So, and then when we moved to Scarborough,It was more diverse, but there wasn't
(04:31):
a lot of, there was not, there wasnot much Chinese people were able to
communicate like in Cantonese or anything.
So that part was kind of hardbecause then like I, there was
also no ESL in that school.
There were special needs, but thenwe weren't special needs because
we just needed the ESL course, theclass to help us brush a language.
(04:57):
Because when I, when we first moved herein Richmond Hill, My ESL, well, my sister
and my ESL teacher, she was Chinese.
So it was very helpful to, for herto help me, you know, with like
our English or like communication,grammar, et cetera, et cetera.
Um, but I do remember like beingin elementary and high school
(05:20):
here, I did deal with like a lotof bullying, like as a victim.
I'm not, I wasn't a bullier,but I was being a victim.
I think what it was is becausethere was, you know, our parents.
You know, our immigrant parents haveto make ends meet, so they always
constantly go to work, and we werejust, me and my sister, we're just
being left alone, like on our own.
Um, we didn't have money to dolike summer camp, or like doing
(05:43):
like those like uh, extracurricularclasses, like after school.
We just don't, we just don'thave that kind of money.
So, and we would be constantly likepranking, like doing phone call prank,
like to like, I know that's bad,
and when we get in trouble for it,because I was like seeking attention.
(06:04):
But then again, I also learnedto stop because obviously I
know I know it's not nice.
But I think that's, you know, oneof the thing that really stuck with
me I'm like, now looking back I'mlike, yeah, that ESL teacher for the
six months or four months when wemoved here that really stuck with me.
Sort of, how will they help me?
(06:26):
When nobody was able to, um, like,help me in the class so much.
I mean, in the class, there were someAsian students, but then again, it
just said, there's also the separation.
There is the, you know, the land,the immigrant, and there's also the
CPC, the, the, I think there's alsothat, like, looking upon, looking down
(06:48):
upon you when you're, when you're,when you're, like, the immigrant.
And why are you dressing like thesame every day because, you know,
like that's because I rememberlike growing like before moving
in Canada would buy like multiple.
My parents would, my mom wouldbuy the multiple items, like the
same thing, like just like, youknow, you know exactly what I mean.
(07:10):
Yeah, you're like, you're like nodding.
100 percent because it's.
Oftentimes cheaper and it's easier.
Yeah, it's definitely easier.
Right.
And then, then I had people like, why areyou wearing the same thing all the time?
I'm like, that's all I have.
Like, I don't know, like, what else?
(07:30):
What else do you want?
Like, I mean, like, we didn't buyany clothing, except winter boots,
because we needed winter boots.
It's interesting, right?
Because now, now you hear, you seearticles where they say that the most
successful people only have a few clothesin their closet and it's all the same,
(07:53):
either the same color or different colors.
And then you and I get, you know,teased when we were younger for
wearing the same thing, you know,because our parents shop that way.
How old is your sister younger?
She's, uh, yeah, she'sa year younger than me.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So there was two, two.
Yeah, so just like therewas like similar age gaps.
(08:15):
So we were basically likesort of fending for ourselves.
So, um, in a way, like obviously,even though we're in different
classes, I can't really support herbecause she's in a different class.
I'm in a different class.
So, but we were very used to like, Iwould hang out with her during recess.
Um, you know, just to help herout because we would get bully
(08:37):
or our English wasn't great.
We have no idea whatthey were talking about.
And I didn't even know thatlike that was like the F word.
It was a swearing word.
I had no idea because I heard likemy classmate was like singing it.
So I started saying it to mycousin because I was living
with my cousin at the same time.
(08:58):
But I really had no idea what it meant.
Did you get into trouble?
Um,
I think my aunt and uncle reallyunderstood because obviously we
had no idea what it really meant.
Like we had no idea that was aswearing bad word until I got
older and I'm like, Oh yeah, okay.
(09:21):
That's a bad word, because mycousins were definitely younger,
like way younger than us.
So, um,
you know, I'm curious.
Before I ask this question, Ialways like to tell people a long
time ago I wrote a blog about this.
If you know, an immigrant.
(09:42):
From a hot country, and they'removing, then they move to Canada,
teach them how to dress for the winter.
Because you think you just put ona thick jacket and you're fine,
but sometimes you need layerings.
That's right, that's right.
Does, does, like in Vancouverversus where you are, very different
(10:05):
kind of layerings would work.
Oh for sure, of course.
Right, so I always think, if youhave the opportunity, PSA, Like
inform an immigrant how to dress,yeah, two hats, the whole thing.
But I digress.
Uh, I'm curious, when yourparents immigrated here, did
(10:27):
the grandparents come too?
No, no, because I think my mom justreally just, just the four of us.
Have you been back to Hong Kong?
Uh, yes, but that was about,what, I think like 10 years ago.
I don't really go back thatoften, to be honest with you.
Like, I have been, like, in thepast, um, a few times throughout,
(10:48):
like, the last 30 years.
But it's also, like, when I go back,it's a completely different environment.
Like, different environment.
Everything is so crowded.
It's just, like, or, um, Or there aretimes that, like, my English, sorry, my
Cantonese is not fluent because I don'treally practice it, I don't really have
much of a Cantonese, like, uh, friends.
(11:10):
I would understand it, but the onlytime I'm able to practice it is
only when I used to work at Chineseagency, like community organization.
That's when I was able to practicewith clients or with my colleagues.
And I also had to do, like,therapy in Cantonese when I used
to work in agency, but I don't.
Right now I don't do therapy in Cantonese.
I can understand if they wantto say like some words or some
(11:32):
like some some statements.
Sure.
I understand.
I totally get whatthey're what they're mean.
Um, yeah, but like, going back, it'slike, it's just like the weather,
like, I'm not used to the weather.
I've been asked, would you everwant to move back and live there?
And I'm like, if I moveback to live there.
That's because I'm I'm have myeducation background as a social worker.
(11:54):
I would have to learn everything andlike the policy is different, you
know, the language and everything.
And, and there's no way of me doingthis big adjustment change unless I have
like, unless I work in a different field.
And that's completely different.
Um, there's no way I would be ableto do like, They're being Cantonese.
(12:16):
They're just, like I said, there'scertain terms I can't even do it.
Like, I'm just like, I don'tknow what it means, you know,
or I don't know how to say it.
So bear with me while I'm trying tolike figure it out in my head and then
trying to figure out how to say itso that my client can understand it.
Yeah, I totally agree.
I've been approached a fewtimes because I speak Mandarin.
Okay.
(12:36):
But, you know, I, my parents are no longeralive, so I don't practice with them.
Right.
I have a lot of Chinese friends, buta lot of them were brought up here, so
they don't speak the language either.
And I've been approached a fewtimes, uh, by potential clients
to work with their parents.
Right.
(12:56):
Right.
Right.
And I'm like, I can't do it.
I can't do therapy in Chinesebecause I wouldn't be able to
say the terms, the phrases.
For sure.
Agree.
Yeah.
And I, and I refer them out becauseI'm like, yeah, better that way.
So I agree.
How did you?
Yeah.
Share your journey a bit.
How did you become apsychotherapist social worker?
(13:17):
Social worker.
So when I first moved here, like Isaid, we've experienced like I've
experienced a lot of bullying, but Ialso was, we were also experiencing
a lot of racism and discrimination,which really impacted my mental health.
Um, and We're gonna do alittle bit self disclosure.
(13:39):
It could be also triggering becausethere are times that there will be times
that I have like a lot of, you know,attempts to hide myself, uh, thoughts.
But obviously it never really, likeit didn't work, like on the attempt
and, and, and, and thinking about it.
And I think that was alsothe lack of resource.
I didn't know where to go for help.
(14:00):
Where am I supposed to go for help?
Sure, I know that there's help atschool, but it wasn't fully advertised.
I don't, I guess back then.
I mean, and then it really primed me.
Okay, well, maybe I should,well, first I would get my Okay.
I did one year for sociology at York,and then I'm like, okay, well, like,
after I do my sociology kind of work,like a career, can I get out of it?
(14:24):
I can't, because it's so broad.
So then I'm like, let me narrow it down.
Well, social work and sociology, there'ssome, like, similar, some of the courses.
are quite similar.
Let me knead it down to social work.
So eventually I went to Ryerson.
Now this is called TMUfor, um, did my undergrad.
I worked a little bit and theneventually did my master of social work.
(14:45):
Um, that was about graduate 10 years ago.
So then that's when I start doingmore like case management and more
counseling, um, at family healthteam or like different organization.
Then eventually.
At the beginning of COVID, that wasfour, four and a half years ago.
That's when I asked, like, I'm going tostart routing out to do my own private
(15:07):
practice because at that time, myjob situation didn't really work out.
I've always wanted to do my privatepractice as talk therapy would
like, I mean, that's how I'm born.
I talk therapy with Vera.
It really pushed me to dofull time because I was just
like, let's just do part time.
But then the pandemic hit, everythingwas just virtual and I was just getting
like tons and tons of clients coming in.
(15:28):
I was really, I was really burnedout like the last couple of years.
It's great.
I was getting busy.
I was getting tons of clients, butI was also learning on how to become
a business, like an entrepreneur.
Nobody taught us how to becomean entrepreneur during my
Master of Social Work, right?
And, um, because in, within socialwork, yes, there's many different
(15:49):
fields, but we're also able to docounseling with, like, with, um, with
clients, and I think that's how Iwas able to, like, born, I mean, um,
create the Talk Therapy with Vera.
Even right now, like I don't justdo counseling or like psychotherapy.
I also do like speaking engagement,um, you know, talking about mental
(16:11):
health and anti-Asian racism.
'cause that's like my main, um,like my main, uh, like my main
topic, it's anti-Asian racism.
That's how.
I was also doing like media expert whatthat means that I've been featured on
like many different outlet media outleton tv talking about anti Asian racism
(16:32):
and how it really impacts mental healthduring COVID but we also know that anti
Asian racism did not just start at COVIDright it started like long long long
time ago which I think a lot of peoplethey don't They didn't really know
how it happened, how it all started.
So it's also great to do that.
But I'm also doing like atherapist coaching, a coaching new
(16:53):
therapist who wants to get intoprivate practice as like a side.
And I've been like approached to do,um, Promoting a potential mental health
program with one of a big organization.
Because what happened is, they sawa lot of my content on Instagram.
So I've been getting approached todo speaking, to be on the media,
(17:15):
to do like all of these things.
It really opens up the opportunity for me.
That's great.
I mean, it's Get out there andtalk about these things that
especially like anti Asian racism.
I agree with you.
It was there.
It just wasn't as it becamemore prevalent during COVID
it was just like.
(17:38):
Yeah, it was pretty, it waspretty bad in Vancouver too.
Of course, yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think it's where the major cities,especially the major city where
like a lot of Asian resides, right?
Those are the big, those, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh,
with your work, let's do, you know,let's dive into anti Asian racism.
(18:01):
Sure.
Since, since we're on the topic.
With what you, you've done and yourexperience and stuff like that, what
comes to top of mind if, you know,for Asians, if they, if they're
concerned about racism, um, or,well, let's go with that first.
Like, what advice would you give?
(18:25):
When they, sorry, what do you mean?
You meant like when they Like ifthey're, when they experience it,
or if they're concerned about it.
Well, rather than shuffle it downand not talk about it, right, I think
you want to be able to talk, find asupport, I mean, find a support network
or system that you feel comfortablediscussing what happened to you.
(18:47):
I think that's important becauseobviously it will definitely
impact your mental health.
And during COVID, I have hadclients coming up to, you know,
came to me and tell me, like,what their experiences was like.
And, and, and how it really impacted theirmental health, not just as an adult, but
also as a kid, what they went through.
Because obviously, as akid, they didn't know it.
(19:09):
I mean, they didn't knowwhere to go for help, or, you
know, where to go for support.
Like, how I didn't know where to go forsupport when I was bullied as a kid.
And it's, and it's, and it sucks.
And obviously, like, as me, being aneducator trying to help, you know,
teach the society on how to dismantleanti Asian racism, I think it's one
thing that recognize if you're thevictim, I think it's also remember
(19:35):
that, like, it's not your fault.
I think a lot of times that they, wetry to shift it to think, to internalize
or personalize that it's our faultthat this happened, but it's not.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
A hundred percent.
I'd love that.
And then what would you say, or whatdo you say to organizations who was
(20:00):
like, Oh, we want to be diverse.
You know, the organizations waslike, we want to be inclusive,
DEI, things like that.
What would you say to them to help?
You're smart.
Well, in my, in my, um, presentation,I, I talk about the history of
(20:22):
how, like, in the present of,like, what's been happening.
But I also talk about howour positionality, plevages,
and intersectionality, it'sall intertwined together.
And I always showed a videoof how it's all co relate and,
and get them to reflect that.
Your story, your narrative or yourstory or how your own intersection
(20:46):
can also impact other people.
You might not feel that, you know,you might not, oftentimes I find
that a lot of people don't reallyreflect until I actually brought on
the video and show them the video.
I'm like, this is how you, this is howyou need, really need to reflect on
your own behavior and your own biases.
(21:06):
That's quite important.
Right?
Because you probably, you might belearning your, like, your biases, or
the way of how you treat people basedon, like, seeing other people, treated
other people, or like through class,I'm just saying, through school, per se.
And without the challenge beingbeing able to challenge your own
(21:30):
biases, how you're supposed to learnand how you're supposed to grow.
Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna justswitch here a bit because I know
you do work with a lot of Asians.
Yeah, I often talk about withmy, so most of my clients are
also Asians, or women of color.
And I often talk about boundariesare very different for those of
(21:55):
us who come from a collectivistculture versus how boundaries.
It's view in a Westernindividualistic culture.
What's your take on it?
That's a good question.
Because in, well, first ofall, my majority of my clients
(22:15):
are also Asian as well.
Um, but the thing yousaid, yeah, you're right.
Because the boundaries, it's morelike the Westernized versus in the
Asian culture or like other culture.
It's more, No, like, whatare you talking about, right?
Like, you know, like, there's noboundaries, especially with our parents,
(22:35):
like, what are you talking about?
They don't like to hear the word no.
Because once they hear the word no,they get quite reactive and they
try to manipulate you and blame youand like, doing all sorts of things.
And I always tell my client, I'm like,well, But you have the ability and
and the agency to make a change ofhow you want it to look for your life.
You're not living, you're not loving theirlife share they have their own expectation
(22:58):
or they may project on this petition onto you, but You have the ability to make
a change, and it's hard, definitely hardto teach my clients boundaries, um, to
get used to making that change, but I alsofind that if they don't, like, if whoever,
like, the other side don't like to hearthe word no has nothing to do with you,
(23:20):
because they're just not getting whatthey want, and they don't understand,
it doesn't mean that you have to teachthem what it means, what it meant.
Like what it meant to say No.
So, for example, like I always share withmy client, like I set my boundaries with
my parents, whether they like it or not,it doesn't really matter at this point.
Yes, they will manipulate me,but at the same time I'm like,
(23:43):
I also need to live my life.
I need to be able to take care of myself.
Do you find in your experience,and I I'll share my experience with
setting boundaries with my mom, uh,after this, but do you, did, do you
find in your experience when youset boundaries with your parents.
One, does it get easier?
(24:04):
And two, do they eventually kindof soften and goes, Oh, okay,
we won't push them as much.
I think eventually they have to accept it.
They can't just keep pushing, they haveto, because if they keep pushing, it's
just gonna, it makes me, it makes mepulled away, right, there's a, there's
a push and pull, and, and oftentimesthat I'll just, I'll just worry about
(24:30):
calling them, like, I'm just going tomake a choice of not calling them and
keep, and not contacting them, if theyneed something from me, I'm sure they'll
contact me, or if I need something,yes, I'll contact them, but I'm not
going to be constant, like every week,or every day I had to do a check in.
Okay.
Thank you.
There are times that my momlikes to overshare stuff
(24:52):
because I know she's lonely.
She has nobody to talk to, but I alwayshave to, I always have to stop it.
Like, I don't want to hear it.
Like, you know, if you're not goingto do anything to make a change,
et cetera, I don't want to hear itbecause I, I listen to, I listen
to, like, I do work with my client.
So I'm already, you know, like, I'malready drained as it is already.
I don't even need to be drained by you.
(25:15):
So like, sometimes, like, when mymom called, when my parents call,
I'm like, Oh, I'm just eating dinner.
I don't feel like picking up, youknow, like they can leave a message.
Or if it's important, they'll like, ifit's important, they'll just tell me,
like, they'll just text, like, WhatsAppme and call me as soon as possible.
But usually when I listen to themessage, it's not that important.
I'm like, oh, okay,well, you guys can wait.
(25:37):
Yeah, and you know, and I would, Iwould just say here that it, it takes
a lot of work to get there, right?
Because especially in ourculture, in the Chinese culture,
there's so much guilt there.
And it just takes a lot of work toget there, to go, okay, you know
what, I know you're my parents.
I respect you, but I can't do this.
(26:00):
Yeah, I'll just share this.
This is for fun.
I'll share this with you at the audience.
So my, my sister has onechild, my niece and she was,
my niece was baptized in Spain.
So the whole family went to Spain.
My sister, her first husband, myniece, when she, when she was six
months old, my parents and myself,this was many, many years ago.
(26:22):
And we went to Spain, the whole family.
Bad idea.
Two elderly parents from a drivefrom Barcelona to the south of Spain.
That was already too long.
We got to Spain and my motherused to be, she was a complainer.
She would complain about everything.
But she also, my mother also did whata lot of Chinese parents do, especially
(26:43):
mothers, is she poked at your wind.
Yup.
And my mother, my niecewas six months old.
My mother looked at my niece andshe said, imagine, she's like,
Oh, you're such a fat little baby.
And my sister and I just lookedat her and I said to my mother,
no, enough, that's it, no more.
(27:06):
And my mother pouted and shewas, well, I was only joking,
I'm like, no, you did that to us.
You cannot do that to.
Yeah.
To your granddaughter.
Yeah.
To your granddaughter.
Yeah.
And so my mom, she went offpouting, pouting, pouted.
You know what?
She never did it again.
Till the day she died, never did it again.
It was, it was tough, but it was like,you know, eventually she figured it out.
(27:30):
Well, she has to, right?
Because it's not like she's old.
She's a baby.
How is she supposed to becontrolling her weight?
Like, I mean, like, it's also like, youknow, the baby can also feel your energy.
It can feed off of your, yourenergy and you don't talk, etc.
You can't communicate,but they can feel it.
Right.
And it's quite toxic when you're, yeah.
(27:52):
So toxic.
So toxic.
Yeah.
When you look back at your life, has therebeen a few people that stood up that have
you looked at and you're like, Oh yeah,they've guided me or they were helpful.
(28:15):
Um,
well, I've been in therapyfor many years now.
And I have the same clinical supervisor,my mentor, for a number of years.
Um, So I was working with my mentorfirst, uh, to do clinical consultation
for cases, um, I think like, I count likefive, maybe more than five years ago.
(28:40):
So, so, but I remember also I was gettingquite triggered when I'm doing, like,
when I'm working with certain clients,basically, that I would get triggered.
I wouldn't, I didn't even know,I didn't even know why, and then
until we sort of figured it out.
Why I was getting triggered, um, andthen, and then she referred me to
my therapist, my current therapist.
(29:02):
So they work hand in hand together,me and my therapist and my mentor.
They don't, they're not like, they'recolleagues, but they work hand in hand.
What that means, it's like,they're really direct.
They understand my triggers andthey know how to, um, support me.
So, like, if If during myconsultation with my mentor.
Okay, this is something an issue thatyou need to talk to your therapist
(29:23):
about to work through this issue.
Um, because both of them are quitedirect, like they don't they don't
they don't they don't take bullshit.
And I also learned that in my, in mysession with my client when I work with
them I told him like I'm quite direct.
If I hear something that's not rightor something that's wrong I will
tell you, because I'm not going to.
(29:45):
tell you what you want to hear.
And, and because if it's wrong,you need to know it's wrong.
If it's good, sure.
Like I'll validate you, but I'm alsonot going to be like, I'm also like,
I also have my, like, I will followto my clients when, when it's about
time, when it's the right time.
That's how my, how my therapist, mymentor were sort of like reminding
(30:09):
me, like, I would hear their voicethat they would tell me how proud
they were of me because of like allthe achievement that I have done.
Instead of me seekingvalidation from my mom.
Forget that.
Forget that, because like, she will, butlike, but it's always been so critical,
you know, like, we always grew up,like, we grew up, like, without critical
parents, it also makes, like, at leastmake me feel that I'm not good enough.
(30:32):
So, but then, like, with my mentor, mytherapist, they will pull out information
about the fact that, oh, yeah, like,I got to, whenever, like, whenever I'm
beating myself down, beating myself up,I would always, uh, Think about what they
would say about how proud they were of mebecause of all the things that I've done.
(30:52):
So I'm always looking up to them.
That's great to have people likethat to support you on your journey.
Very important.
Like, and I'm still like, I'mstill working with my therapist.
I'm still working with my mentorand, and it's, and it's great.
Which I think is so important,especially for the work that we do.
(31:15):
You need to get the constant support sothat you can show up for your clients.
Oh, for sure.
For sure.
For sure.
Because I would like, I don'tknow why I'm getting triggered.
Well, I think I know, but I'm not sure.
But let me talk about it inmy session, or even with my,
with my therapist or my mentor.
Well, yeah, because how longhave you been a social worker?
(31:37):
I have, I've been a social worker forthe last, what, 17, like 17 years.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, because then, you know, I'm sureyou, you get this too, is that because
if you don't look at your own stuff,it shows up and then it's, that's the
whole transfer and counselor transfer.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
And then you can't showup for your clients.
(31:58):
A hundred percent.
No, no, no.
Or like, Oh, I got to be ableto like, put my issue aside.
I got to focus on my clientfirst and I can, I can work on my
issues with my therapist, as well.
My mentor, after the sessions,when my client is finished, right.
Yeah, you know, and I often say thiswhen I was a yoga teacher for a few
(32:20):
years and I said this to people whocome up to me and say, Oh, I want
to be a yoga teacher, what do I do.
Recently I was talking to a fewyoung people was I want to be a
therapist, what do we do and Ialways give them the same advice.
It's not about you duringsessions, it's never about.
It's about the clientsand if things shows up.
(32:40):
You need to have a therapistthat you see on a regular basis
to work on it, to work on it.
I was talking to a young person and theywere like, but I want to help people.
I'm like, yeah, but youneed to have therapy.
regular supervision and care.
That's right.
That's right.
They were like, Oh, I thinkI turned them off constantly.
(33:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You want to help people, but you'llneed, you also need to build up the
skills of how you can support the people.
It's not just because like, I want tohelp people all of a sudden, but like,
but if you have no background or trainingor experiences in therapy, how are you
really going to look, because then likeyour client will, your client pays you.
Like, you know, to provide asession, if you can help them.
(33:24):
Well, like you, well, and yeah,and also you need the resilience.
You need the life experiencesand you need the resilience.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
I mean, it took me a long,long time to rebuild that.
We see instead of not personalizingor like not taking nothing,
not take things serious.
Right.
(33:45):
Yeah, because I also have like clientthat will like make sometimes they
make me feel like I'm not good enough.
And then I'm like, No, no, no, no, that'snot true because I have a bunch of other
clients that I support and and I know howI can, and I know I'm doing a good job.
Right.
Yeah.
And I believe that you get thatyou really get that with Doing your
(34:09):
own work with life experiences.
That's right.
Because I often, so I was inChinese medicine for 14 years
before I became a therapist.
And I often say to my husband too, it'slike, I don't think I would be able to
be a therapist if I'm like 28 years old.
Because I wouldn't have had theresilience and the life experiences and
I wouldn't have, and I, I, at that timeI didn't do a lot of my internal work.
(34:34):
Right.
So I wouldn't.
So, but so then what I would do is if Ididn't do my internal work I would sit.
I will go, Oh, is it about me.
Yeah, right, but it's never about me.
What do you do for fun?
Um, so you probably have seen myInstagram that I have a bunny.
(34:57):
Oh my god, I love the bunny.
He's so cute.
He's like my baby.
I have him since he was six months old.
So he's like eight.
He's getting old, but he'slike the love of my life.
Um, I also like spendingtime with my nephew.
He's almost two, but, uh, yeah, yeah.
But I don't see him as much,um, because I live a little bit
(35:18):
further than where my family lives.
So, um, you also see me postinga lot of pictures with food,
like with going to restaurants.
I'm a huge foodie, so like I love.
food.
That's my main thing.
I do like, um, outdoor likeactivity where it's like hiking.
Hiking is my thing because I likegoing for like, I like walking,
but I also like hiking, likethe nature, but minus the bugs.
(35:40):
Oh, same.
Yeah, I can't stand mosquitoes and bugs.
Um, I do like, uh, road trips.
Like I love traveling.
Obviously, it's been quite hard.
Um, like during COVID,I didn't really travel.
As much and we started this year, then Istarted like traveling outside of Canada.
Um, I do like spending time withmy friends, uh, quite a bit.
(36:04):
And my family, I mean,
like, like, not so much like people werelike, aren't you close to your family?
I'm like, yeah.
No, we're good.
Like we're very service.
Like if I, you know, if the wanting tosee me to go like, you know, to go for
like to hang out shore or like, you know,if like, okay, let's just say I want to
(36:27):
go take my parents out for lunch or fordinner or like, like, hang out with them.
I'll do the same becauseobviously they're lonely.
Like they're, you know,they're both retired.
So like, you know, they have alsobuilt like a life for me and my sister.
So let me at least sort of,um, you know, take them out.
Um, and.
(36:48):
I used to be more active, like when Isay active, we're like more sporty, um,
like dragon boating, playing like beachvolleyball, like doing like dodgeball,
but because I've been into multiple MVAs,so I have a lot of trauma in my body,
so I can't really be too active as well.
But I do like checking out cityevents within the, within the city.
(37:09):
Yeah.
Guys, well, you know what?
And before, before we started recording,I was saying that you need to come visit.
So I know I'm the same hiking and food.
So when you come, yeah,that's what we'll do.
Yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
Favorite food.
I don't really have a favorite becauselike I love like, I love Italian, Chinese,
(37:33):
but Chinese has to be traditional andnot the Americanized Chinese food.
Um, like Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese,Thai, or like French, Spanish food.
Like I love, like I lovetrying different kind of food.
Yeah.
What's the, thing.
https (37:47):
otter.
ai
Well, chicken balls and egg rolls.
Those are the Americanite.
Those are kind of like a lot of toomuch batter or like too much flour.
I mean, yeah, it's kind of gross.
Like, the traditional, like,I like my congee, right?
(38:08):
Like, I like my, like, my noodles.
Um, my ho fun, like my, myfried noodles, fried rice.
Or like, um, uh, like soup.
And it's I just like the congee isn'tmy comfort food growing up, right?
You know, like when you're sick, youknow, or like, you're not feeling
(38:29):
well, like I'll tell, I'll get my dad.
Well, my, when I used to livein Hong Kong, my grandma would,
would make the, would makecongee when I'm not feeling well.
But like, sometimes I'm,cause I live on my own.
I don't know how to, I don'treally, I don't, I don't really make
Chinese food to be honest with you.
Like, so like, if I really craving forChinese food, I'll ask my dad, dad,
can you just cook these food and hewill actually cook it and bring it.
(38:51):
So.
Congee for the listenersis, uh, rice porridge.
Yeah.
And it's just soothing thing, which, andalso I will say from a Chinese medicine
perspective, totally makes sense.
It tonifies you, tonifies yourspleen, nourish your body.
That's why it feels so good to eatit when you're not feeling well.
(39:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Good.
I can talk about food all day.
Uh, and, um, so you do coaching too.
What are your advice for new therapistsor therapists wanting to start out?
Be patient with yourself.
I think one thing, really be patientbecause, um, it's like, you're, you're,
(39:36):
don't forget, like, you're competingwith so many different therapists right
now so that you really got to put inthe work of doing your own marketing.
What that means that you need to haveprofessional pictures, a website, a
psychology to your profile, but youalso have to be patient because like,
it took me, it took me at least sixmonths to build my like my full practice.
(40:04):
Being sad that but like back then likein 2020 everyone was so distressed like
was so in distress and had a lot ofmental health so I was quite busy but
I think you just said like don't expectlike you know one day that You know,
like you're going to have like 20 clientsper week, or I'm just saying, or like,
you know, even like 10 clients a week.
(40:25):
It's good as a start orlike five clients a week.
It's a good start because you alsowant to be able to do consultation,
making sure that they're a good fitwith you and, and, and, and, um,
and you're able to support them.
Cause I think a lot of new therapists,they come in with different expectation
(40:46):
and they think that, oh yeah, like,oh, like it's been three months.
Why is my practice so slow?
And then I would do like a, uh, a view oftheir profile, like, or even the picture.
I'm like, how do you expect,like, how do you expect clients to
work with you if you don't have aprofessional picture or your profile?
It's so jargoned with allthe, like, clinical terms.
(41:08):
They're not going to understand, right?
Well, it's so true because, youknow, like, It's because some people
think that by using the professionalterms, it makes them sound more
knowledgeable, but it's not true.
And, you know, I also think,okay, look, seriously, I'm
(41:31):
just aging myself too, because
the whole expecting somethingto happen right away.
My belief is, is because of life.
Internet, the social media,because the instant gratification,
for sure, for sure, for sure.
(41:52):
And we don't know how to wait anymore.
We don't know how to be patient.
I agree.
I agree.
Um, because like I said earlier, like,I didn't expect that I was going to, I
was going to get clients from Instagram.
And a lot of therapists who followsme will ask me like, Oh, how can
(42:12):
you be so confident on camera?
And How can you get clients?
Well, because I'm also being consistent,being on camera, showing up for myself,
showing up for my client, talking aboutmy own personal experiences, but also
don't forget when I did media, when Ialso have done media coaching in order
for me to get on TV, you know, on mediaoutlet, I also were able to, to continue
(42:35):
to build that confidence level and,and practice on how that I can show up.
Cause once you start showingup, And, and get your message
across, then slowly people willstart wanting to work with you.
But you also have to make surethat you might want to niche
it down on who your, who youraudience or who your target client.
(42:55):
You don't want to just like post anycontent information just because,
because you wanted to post it,but it doesn't, but it's sometimes
I'm really rad of it, right?
I would also add some people, I'mjust going to say this, you don't
do this, but I'm just going to saythis, but some people are oversharing.
(43:18):
You want to share what's relevant,but I also think not oversharing
because there's a responsibility astherapists, psychotherapists, social
workers, if you post on social media,there's a responsibility that you don't
trigger the people who are listening.
That's right.
Okay.
That's right.
You know, I like to say if you're goingto say something like that, if you know
(43:41):
it's going to be triggering, give awarning, content warning, important,
very important, very important.
I think a lot of some people, theyjust lack of that or they're not,
they don't know how to show up.
Right.
And, and they don't know, um,like being on social media, it's,
it's also, there's also strategy.
It's not just like, I'm going topost content, you know, like, you
(44:05):
know, once a week, and then I'mgoing to expect client will show up.
I'm going to expect more followers, right?
There's so many things behind thebackground that you, you have to learn.
How did you learn to be on social media?
I've seen, I've seen other, their bestto be on social media, so then I started
doing it on my own, um, in 2020, andthen I realized I can't do it because
(44:28):
I'm like seeing clients and being onsocial media, and I would just, I would
just, it would just weigh too much.
Then eventually I hired, um, a socialmedia manager to help me, and then I had
to go through like, this is my third one.
She's going to be my, I'm hopingshe will be the only one because
I'm hoping, I don't want tobe working with other people.
I'm very particular.
So she's been helping me.
(44:49):
I've been working with her for thelast, I would say two years now.
So we, we're quite successfulbecause we understand, like she
understood what my needs are.
She's helping me to like, you know,um, what I need to post, how do
I need to engage with my clients?
And there's also like strategy behind it.
Um, it's also like,it's also an investment.
Um, To, to invest.
(45:11):
Um, I didn't expect, to be honest, like Inever expected my, um, to gain clients or
gain like speaking engagement through thatuntil I'm like, Oh, it's actually working.
I'm happy.
So I was like, Hmm.
Okay.
So I need to keep up at it.
So many times, many days, I'm like,I don't want to be, I don't want to
be doing, I don't want to do a wheel.
(45:31):
I don't want to go on story, but I'mlike, well, if I'm not going to do it,
who's going to do it for me, you know?
And I love that.
You said this just now in thebeginning is that we didn't
learn how to be business owners.
Well, we did our masters.
Nobody taught us this.
And when my husband and I openeda clinic, um, years ago, we hired
(45:57):
a business coach for a few months.
And what she said to me was, ifyou are able to, the task that you
don't want to do, or you're notgood at, find someone else to do.
That's right.
I mean, financially, if you don't havethe money, that's a different matter.
But she said, but what she said was.
If you, if you can do that,because then you can direct your
(46:18):
energy into doing something else.
So I'm, yeah, it's great to hear that youhave someone that helps with social media.
I'm just aware of the time tolast, last question for you.
Any advice?
You can say you're also a Chinese auntie.
Any advice as a Chinese auntie,that was great to be Chinese auntie.
Um, I think one thing it's that whenyou're starting to doubt yourself.
(46:47):
Just remember that youare good enough, right?
Like even though that you're seeking thatexternal validation, whether it's from
your parents, from like your colleagues,from your boss, from your friends,
partner, et cetera, you got to be able to,you got to be able to validate yourself.
The validation needs tocome within yourself, right?
Because not in this, not, notall the time, you're going to
get validation from other people.
(47:09):
And if you're having trouble to tellyourself you're good enough, that's okay.
Then start thinking about allthe facts of things that you
have achieved in life, right?
That's quite important, because oftentimesthat we don't validate ourselves
enough, like we don't validate ourselvesenough, and we don't look at the
facts of the things that we have done.
(47:31):
And I'd love to see that list of thingsthat you've done that you like about
yourself because oftentimes this is,this is quite common right in clients.
Yeah.
Thanks.
You seek external validation.
You don't know how tobelieve in yourself anymore.
Um, I was going to askyou this, but I forgot.
(47:54):
Seriously, last question.
How does your community look like?
Who's in your community?
How does it look like?
Except Bunny, who elseis in the community?
My friends, for sure.
Who are quite my, who's great.
My, who's part of my great support system.
They know that.
Um what I do for a living so like theysometimes they try to like not to bother
(48:15):
me as much with their issue but theyquite understand me thank you like so
much um I would also say um my familylike my parents like they do understand
yes they annoy The heck out of me.
But they also understand how hardI work to, to get to where I am.
Because every time when I, when I tellthem, oh, like, mom, I'll be on TV, just
(48:38):
record it so you can watch it later.
I'm like, okay, I'll record it.
And they're so proud of me to be on TV.
But they have no idea what I talkabout, because it's all English.
This is what I was talking about,talking about mental health, mom.
Or they will start showingtheir, like, my, my aunt, like
that I've been on TV, etc.
And.
(48:58):
And I think when I'm coming,you know, another big part of my
colleagues that I was because we dolike pure, like, if I have any issue
questions, we support one another.
But I think at the same time, my therapistand my mentor, like I said earlier, the
quite, they're very important in my life.
I love that.
I love that.
(49:20):
Well, thank you verymuch for coming on today.
It was great to talk to you.
Yeah, thanks for having me today.
Hmm, such a great conversation withVera and great advice from her too.
When you start to doubt yourself.
Look at it.
See what's going on.
(49:42):
. A lot of us, especially those of us in the Chinese community.
And if you were born female,
We were taught from a young age that.
We didn't matter.
Our opinions didn't matter.
Our views didn't matter.
And then what happen is that validation.
Often came from grades.
(50:03):
How did you do in school?
Oh, you did.
Well, you got a gold star, youknow, And that's how we'd learn
to feel good about ourselves.
My suggestion is to change that becauseif we constantly see validation from
external sources and and other people.
(50:27):
You're not going to be able tofeel like you're good enough.
Yes.
I believe that sometimes it's good.
When you're having a bad day,you reach out to your friends
or you ask your partner.
For validation.
What do you love about me?
But.
A lot of that has to come from internal.
(50:50):
, I often tell clients.
Inner child.
Healing is huge.
I'm a firm believer in it because theparts of you that still believe that
you're not good enough without XYZ.
Those parts need to heal.
Look at what The ads often.
are about, they're trying to sellthings to make you feel better
(51:13):
about yourself, especially to women.
Oh, you're tired.
Here why don't youdrink this formulation.
Oh, Maybe this bag willhelp you feel better.
So start looking internally.
And reach out for help when you need to.
(51:33):
Thank you for listening.
Have a great week.
And please check out my offering.
Community for Asian women.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
(51:54):
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
(52:14):
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
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