September 23, 2024 • 59 mins
Content warning: the conversation touches on sensitive topics like post-partum depression and thoughts of suicide.
In this episode of Conversations with Your Chinese Auntie, I talk to Veena Chugh, an author, certified yoga teacher, and mother, about her experiences immigrating from India to the United States. Veena discusses the cultural adjustments she faced, shares her journey through postpartum depression, and the contrast between Eastern and Western parenting styles. Veena's insights into self-care, the significance of staying true to oneself, and her personal struggles underline the importance of community and self-awareness. The episode also delves into her professional background in HR, where she highlights initiatives on inclusivity and mental health practices. Veena shares her poetry, emphasizing the transformative power of writing, and offers valuable advice for immigrant mothers. Bio: Veena has 20 years of corporate experience, including a decade in HR, and has led leadership roles across India and Indonesia. She is a certified yoga teacher and a coach. She has also served as a visiting Faculty member teaching human resource management in 2 institutes in Mumbai. Veena is a published Author who loves to write quotes and poems. She is in the process of compiling her second book. Veena's Book Follow Veena on LinkedInMark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to another episodeof conversations with your
Chinese Auntie YiYi that's me.
I hope you're doing well, and September.
is going well, for you, withthe kids going back to school.
If you have children, All justsassing into cooler weather.
(00:24):
In this episode, I talked to Veena Chugh.
Veena is a published, author a certified.
yoga teacher.
And a mother.
Veena discusses her journeyfrom immigrating, from
India to the United States.
We also talk about culture adjustments.
And Veena briefly shares her.
(00:46):
Postpartum.
experience.
So content warning, Veena does talk about.
Thoughts of suicide.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
Hello Veena.
Hi, Patricia.
Welcome to the podcast and thankyou so much for saying yes.
(01:11):
I'm happy to be here and glad to,you know, share to, uh, share and
explore different thoughts today.
Patricia, I'm thankful to you as well.
Please introduce yourself, whereyou're from, what do you do,
okay.
Thank you.
So my name is Veena Chugh and currentlyI would call myself an implant in USA.
(01:36):
I'm originally from India.
I have been living in the UnitedStates for the past seven years.
I am an HR corporate executivewith 20 years of work
experience and leadership roles.
I'm also a published author of a bookwhich is a collection of short stories.
(01:57):
It's called as Pink Roseand Other Short Stories.
I'm a certified yoga teacher and a coach.
I'm pivoting into new directionsthis year, compiling my second book,
have set up a business and uh, Awhole lot of new things happening.
So I'm excited about thisnew phase in my life.
(02:19):
Oh, let's talk about thesecond book in a bit.
How was it moving fromIndia to the States?
Was that culture shock for you?
Yes, in a way, yes.
So, The reason I moved was, uh, because Igot married and my husband is based here.
(02:40):
So that got me to this country andfrom a culture shock, absolutely.
Because, um, you know, staying in acity of Mumbai, which is always like.
bustling and so much of noiseand people and everything.
And then I come to a town calledConshohocken, which is like 20 minutes
away from the Philadelphia downtown.
(03:03):
It's very quiet, it's peaceful.
And so, so in the sense, it's,it's a big change in that sense.
And, you know, culturally, asyou know, as, as things started
evolving, um, you know, I startedunderstanding that how different it
is from the world where I come from.
(03:23):
Do you prefer Mumbai's busyness ordo you prefer the quietness now?
Um, so like I said, youknow, I'm an author.
Um, so I like this part of it a lotin the sense which helps my reflection
and my writing, a pace of lifelike this is very good for myself.
(03:45):
Spirit.
Uh, I miss the busyness of Mumbaispecifically during the festivals
because, you know, the color, thevibrancy, the food, all that I miss.
So, so I, I would say that slowlyConshohocken has started growing
on me, but there are definitely alot of parts of Mumbai that I miss.
(04:10):
So, growing up, growing up in Mumbai,I was, you know, I grew up in a
joint family where, you know, you'reliving with your aunts and uncles
and even like your married uncles.
So we were a family of 15 peoplestaying together in one large
apartment, um, lot of kids.
And, um, it, it just always feltlike Like ongoing party going on.
(04:33):
And, um, um, it was, it wasfun playing with my cousins.
We were playing board games.
We were going outdoor, we wereplaying together, we were doing
things, a lot of things together.
That was the great partof growing together.
The not so great part was thatspecifically when it comes to, you know,
(04:55):
the dynamics within the families andbecause I come from a business family,
so what happens is There is a business,everybody's involved in that business,
somebody could be doing well by growingthe business, somebody is not doing that.
So that kind of brings in some frictionbetween the family members who are
(05:17):
putting in their best and getting theresults and there are some who are not.
So I think that kind of then Kindof seeps into also the relationship
dynamics within the family.
And when that part of it emerges,then you do see the ugly aspects
of a joint family system.
(05:37):
Um, so I would say that it I, ifanybody had to tell me if I had to
rate it, it's going to be 50 50.
Yeah, that is, that, that's good.
That's pro and cons, isn't it?
Being, being in a familydynamic like that.
You're never, you're never alone.
You're never lonely because there'salways family members around.
(06:00):
But yeah, things happen.
I know you have a young child.
How do you find raising him in the States?
The Western, ideas of parenting.
Is it a struggle for you?
Um, what I would say is that initiallywhen I, you know, when we started the
(06:24):
journey, it right, it starts from theday one, you, you're getting your, like,
when you get your baby back home fromthe hospital, I know that everyone's
crib is ready and, uh, we, we didnot have a crib ready in that sense.
Right.
And here I hear of people, youknow, a separate baby room is ready.
(06:49):
Everything, you know, has been set up.
I didn't have any of that.
Um, so we started co sleepingwith our baby and everyone said,
Don't you know there is SIDS?
And I'm like, what is SIDS?
Oh, you know, kids die and sleepand all these things happen, they
roll over and things like that.
(07:10):
And I had not even heard of that.
And so, you know, there's likethis fear now that has set in.
But so, okay, we got the grip.
I tried to put my baby, my baby was readyto nap during the days, but in the night
it was difficult, you know, so what, whathappened was eventually I stopped doing
(07:32):
that completely because I was not alignedto it, it didn't feel right, I just wanted
my baby to be close to me, so even ifI'm resting, my baby is close to me on
the bed, and if he needs my attention, Ican pick him up you know, quickly rather
than, you know, going to another roomor even to the crib within the room.
(07:53):
So that it said that was the firstpoint of, uh, you know, difference.
The second part as it evolved was thatthankfully I could breastfeed my son.
And, uh, I did it for, um,considerably a longer time than
what people consider normal here.
(08:15):
So, he, he, I breastfedhim for three years.
And, uh, I was mocked.
Also by my son's pediatrician, includingmy husband, as well, because everybody
in the Western culture thinks, okay,three months, six months, one year,
uh, okay, some people are progressiveand might do it a little over a year,
(08:40):
two years is really high, and threeyears is like, Unheard of, right?
For me, Patricia, I justfelt it was right to do it.
And I just went with it because whenI was researching, I found that what
a mother's milk can do to the baby,you know, a powder milk, or even, you
(09:01):
know, if you're introducing cow milkor anything, cannot give that immunity.
And we were right in the middle of it.
So if COVID then, andhow could I protect him?
There was no other way to protecthim because he's so young.
And so, so my internal callwas that my milk can give
(09:23):
him that immunity and safety.
And I want to go by that no matter, youknow, what the world is going to say.
So there were these conflicting ideas.
things that were evolving,um, at every stage.
Um, and I've come to kind of dowhat my heart asked me to do.
(09:45):
And I, I follow it and I follow my child.
I follow my child.
So people here start trainingtheir Child, um, you know,
the potty trained them, right?
Like 18 months and two years.
And I didn't start that.
I don't know.
It just didn't feel right.
He was ready and I didn't want to createfrustration for him and for myself.
(10:10):
And, um, Pressures on him and myself, Ijust waited even till three years and,
you know, just when he was three slowlyI introduced and it was so smooth for me.
So before he could turn four, hewas ready because I also felt that,
you know, he was more receptive.
You know, he had picked up language,so it was easy to comprehend what
(10:33):
I was trying to do rather thanpushing it, you know, too early.
So these are some of the things that.
Are always in contrast with how, you know,how the Eastern belief is or my belief is
to, you know, to, to, to the world here.
Yeah.
And before I became a therapist, I wasa Chinese medicine practitioner, doctor.
(10:58):
And I often say to my clients, because abig part of my practice at that time was.
So, you know, I would see a lot ofwomen who are pregnant and I, they
often come back with these like whatyou share to us by what they want to do.
(11:20):
Their family might not agree,the pediatrician might not agree.
And I often say to them is that you gotto listen to your heart and your child.
I mean, you know, Whenever you can, right?
Because some things we know you needto go to the doctor for medical
advice, but whenever you can, youlisten, like I had a girlfriend.
(11:41):
She, her doctor wanted to induceher because the baby was late.
And I think it was six days late andshe's like, Nope, I know my child,
when she's ready, she'll come up.
Baby was born 12 days late, healthy.
so important to listen.
(12:02):
What advice would you give for especiallya woman of color, like yourself, who was
an immigrant, and also, like, Lackingthe community support will like if
they were going through the same thing.
What advice would you give them?
That's a great question, Patricia.
And the thought would be that becauseeach case will be unique and like barring
(12:28):
the cases, like we said, we agreedthat, you know, which needs a kind of a
difficult different medical intervention,if that's not You know, if, if not, if
that's not the kind of a case that we'retalking about in general, my advice to
every mom would be that follow what yourheart feels and, uh, follow it to the T.
(12:57):
And second thing, which, which wealready mentioned earlier in this
conversation is follow the childas well as you will progress.
Um, it's going to be hard.
You're going to feel lonely.
I have felt that to my bone.
Uh, also I felt it a little morebecause I was going through a
(13:18):
postpartum depression as well.
So all the more everythingbecame, you know, was getting
amplified for me emotionally.
So, but I stuck to my ground and IEven though there was pressure around
me from, you know, from significantpeople in my life, I just went
(13:41):
with what I felt was right to do.
And sometimes I would give in tothat thought, but I realized that
because my inner conviction was sostrong that even when I did that
for a, you know, for a brief periodand I wouldn't get the results, I
would say, Hey, this is not working.
(14:02):
I don't want to go by your thought.
It's not working because, because I'mso glued to that belief and my heart.
And I went back to that.
So my thought, um, to every mother, Youknow, or a person of color or is that you
are going to feel lonely, you will evenhave difficult, tough moments where you
(14:26):
are going to feel that there is nobodyfor you, but you have to know that.
Nobody else outside you knows yourchild more than you because that
is the advantage of being a motherbecause what happens is that nine month
journey that happens, you know, withyour child, you kind of have built
(14:49):
that psychic bond with the child,and, and you have to trust that.
And, and when you once you starttrusting that, then you realize that.
That's the right road for you.
And even in the interim, it might lookdifficult to do, but as you will start
trusting your own judgment and yourgut more and more often, you will see
(15:15):
that that's the right path for you.
And that's what happened forme along, along the road.
, will you share your journey withpostpartum because I find that A lot of
women don't talk about it, they sufferin silence, and I would love to just
(15:35):
shine a light on if you would shareyour journey with how long it took.
And are there any things were thereany things that you did that help.
That's a great question andI'm very happy to share.
So, I think within the first month.
(15:57):
When I went through the assessment job.
It was very clear that I was going througha postpartum depression and, um, the way
it looked like is that I had a lot ofintrusive thoughts and those intrusive,
intrusive thoughts would include, uh,you know, suicidal thoughts that would
include something wrong happening to thebaby and, you know, things like that.
(16:22):
And, um, So what I did was that, uh, Idefinitely was recommended to, you know,
take some kind of, uh, antidepressants,um, to see a therapist, um, gum counselor,
um, I chose not to take any medicationbecause I was breastfeeding, and my
(16:47):
Eastern belief doesn't allow me toinfuse my body with a lot of chemicals,
specifically when I'm breastfeeding.
So I said no to any medicines,but I chose to use you know,
interacting and expressing as a wayto help me navigate through this.
(17:08):
So I went through counseling cumtherapy for almost close to nine months.
Uh, and I, I was also in some sessionsjoined by my partner because when, when
postpartum depression happens, uh, it'san impact on The couple's relationship as
(17:31):
well, because, because your partner needsto understand what's going on, you know,
how thoughts play out and what kind ofsupport he can lend me during that time,
because, because you're also new parents.
And so you're already overwhelmedwith that new responsibility.
And it's very difficult to seeeach other in that light, like,
(17:54):
you know, my husband did not thinkthat you know I had this problem.
And even though it got detected, butwhen, you know, the interactions would
get played out, he wouldn't rememberthat, that, that I was going through
this, right, because, you know, inthat, uh, because he's tired, you
know, things that were happening.
So, um, it was a tough phase, but, uh,you know, going through therapy and
(18:20):
counseling had, what we also did wasthat we incorporated a family walk.
So we would walk around.
Luckily, we stay very close to the trail.
So we would go for, you know, all threeof us, you know, taking my son in the
stroller, we would go for this nice walk,you know, spending time in the nature.
My son was born in spring.
So, you know, in a way that helpedbecause we were through summer.
(18:44):
So we would just go for these walks.
Um, every time I felt these intense days.
intrusive thoughts.
I would just call my husband and luckilyhe was working from home and I would just
hold his hand and I would just say that,hey, you know, I'm not feeling okay.
I'm just having this gush ofthese thoughts, which are telling
(19:05):
me I'm going to lose my baby.
I'm going to do something to myself.
Uh, so, and so he would, so, youknow, I was present to myself.
And I would hold his hand and I wouldjust tell him this, and then he would
give me a hug and he would just say,you're going to get through this,
you're going to get through this.
So these were some of thethings that we did as a family.
(19:25):
And thankfully, you know, we wereout of that phase in a year's
time in less than a year's time.
Thank you for sharing that.
I'm so glad that, you foundthe support you needed and
your husband was there for you.
Yeah.
What do you do now?
For yourself, because weall know motherhood is.
(19:48):
difficult and challenging at times.
What do you do for yourself nowthat helps with your self care?
Yeah.
So, um, I definitely have incorporatedat least a 10 minutes of exercise
come yoga in my, in my routine.
(20:09):
I'm also a certified yoga teacher.
I told you that, uh, I also haveincorporated meditation, which
could range anywhere between.
From 10 to 20 minutes, depending on,you know, the time I have on hand.
So these are my default that happens.
At least I stick to aroutine of doing meditation.
(20:29):
I try to do all days of the week.
Yoga is at least five times in a week.
And I write.
I write because writing ismy way of expressing myself.
So, uh, I would say that journaling,writing my thoughts, and, um, that has
(20:51):
helped me to kind of, you know, youknow, it's helped me to heal because
every time I, I feel, and it's not justrelated to the depression part, but you
know, sometimes you have those heavymoments in your life, but you know, then
there are challenges, different kind ofchallenges life is throwing at you, but
you know, just writing notes to myself.
(21:13):
I have found a lot ofrelief in doing that.
And, um, the, the beauty of that isthat by doing that all the time, I do
not know how I started doing poetry.
How it became codes.
How it became stories.
So I would say that Depression'sgreatest gift to me has been writing.
(21:38):
Mm mm Uh, I wanna talk about yourpoetry in a bit, but I am curious.
Did you practice yogawhen you were in India?
Yes.
Do you, so I was a yoga teacher forabout 10 years and from, yeah, from, but
(22:01):
from what I've heard from people fromIndia is that how we look at yoga in the
West is very different than in India.
What are your thoughts about it?
I would agree.
So, um, in India, what happens iswhen you look at yoga, um, so yoga
(22:26):
actually starts This union, right?
Your union of yourself tothe higher self, right?
So what happens is thatit includes everything.
It actually includesyour entire lifestyle.
So, um, it starts with,you know, thoughts.
It starts with what kindof diet you're having.
(22:50):
And then definitely the last part of yoga.
It includes, you know, the physicalaspect that you do, the asanas that we do.
And then, you know, you end itwith breathing and meditation.
But it actually starts withyour thought journey and your
diet, because what you eat.
(23:11):
Is what, so my quality of my thoughts isdetermined by what I eat and also with
the intent with which I eat and, uh, weall, I'm guilty of, you know, sometimes
just eating so quickly, not chewingvery well, and, you know, distracted
with television or a call or I'm on my,you know, laptop, uh, scrolling stuff.
(23:37):
So.
It actually starts from there.
So, so, so what we see in the West isthat, you know, they don't look at it
holistically, a part of yoga that does,that is being focused, at least for a
large part of whatever I know, is on onthe asana part and maybe they include
(23:59):
now breathing and meditation, butthey don't include the part of intent.
They don't include the part oftheology or you know thoughts and
the diet aspects which actuallycomplements the whole aspect of yoga.
So I think You have now so manydifferent versions of yoga that are
(24:19):
going around that it's very difficultto, for people to understand what it is.
Uh, for most of the people in theWest, it's like, you know, you
do the, I know this asana and I'mperfecting my 20 asanas and I'm, I
can do shirshasana and I can do this.
It's not that.
Yoga tells you, youhave to go by your body.
(24:39):
You know, and it alsostarts with your spirit.
It also starts with what kind ofintentions and thoughts I have.
That's far more, that's called Raj Yogabecause that is the highest form of yoga.
But while the West has focusedon Hatha Yoga, which is more
the body aspect of yoga.
(25:00):
So, so I, so for me, Ithink if we have to really.
have the absolute fruit ofwhat yoga can do to you.
It has to start at the top level, goto the diet level, and then definitely,
you know, the physical aspects and thenyou're doing meditation and breathing,
(25:20):
which is more of emotion regulation.
I love that you bring up the diet part.
So coming from, from Singapore to from theeast, it's I don't know about you, but I
was brought up in a society and a cultureand a family where the food was looked
(25:43):
at as because also coming from a Chinesemedicine perspective, right, the food was
like this food is good for what organ.
And this would help to dispel heatthis food, if you're having your
period, it will help to nourish yourblood right so everything is like.
What is good for the body.
And when I first met my husband, many,many years ago, um, I said to him,
(26:09):
it's very interesting that oftentimesthe people I've met here is that
they don't look at food the same way.
And my husband said to me, youhave to understand that here,
like for him, he said we didn'tgrow up learning about nutrition.
It wasn't part of it.
Right.
(26:30):
With your upbringing,how was food looked at?
I would, I would guess with Ayurvedicmedicine and the Eastern way of thinking.
Yes.
How did that impact theway you look at food?
So, um, I think a lot of, um, Things thatwe did in the way we cook and the way
(26:52):
we do things at home was always with thethought that this is good for your system.
This is good for cleansing you.
So, for example, when, when we were Okay.
When we were younger, when I felt sick,or if I had a stomach issue, um, I
remember my grandmom, um, uh, so she,she had a herb, and she would boil that
(27:19):
herb, and then, um, you know, she woulduse mint, and things like that, and I
was given this herbal soup, which wasso bitter, but the fact was that it
helped to clean, cleanse the system.
And it was, it was a plantbased, it was herb based thing.
So that is the kind ofthought it was there.
(27:39):
And even like, when you look atthe spices that we use, like,
you know, we use turmeric.
Turmeric is good for your information.
It is good even overall.
Yes, you cannot do it, especiallyif people have acidity and also
you do have to regulate theamount that you're going to use.
So, so I think our spicesand herbs that we use.
(28:01):
in, in what we eat, uh, was so mucha part of, you know, helping the
balance, balancing our body, bodyfrom Ayurvedic perspective, because
Ayurveda has different levels, likeevery body type is different and you
need these kind of foods to regulate it.
So I think it was, it is so much ingrainedin the day to day of our life that
(28:26):
sometimes you don't even realize it that,you know, We are actually following in
our Vedic lifestyle or it's somethingthat is passed on from the elders, you
know, to the, to the, to the generation.
It's only, I started understandingthat once I, you know, like I
said, I certified into yoga andI started reading a lot about it.
(28:50):
So I think it's.
It's kind of embed in our culture, youknow, and it's being passed on as a
tradition to us without us realizingit, that actually what they're doing
is they're passing on an Ayurvediclifestyle or they're passing a passing
on an Eastern way of a mindset.
(29:11):
You don't even realize that.
And I love that you mentioned the spices.
So my, one of my best friends is Indian.
We met at university andit was still really close.
And when she moved into her firstplace after university, and I went to
visit her, uh, the spices, she justopened the cupboard and she goes, all
(29:38):
right, we're going to make something.
And she just, she showed me allthe spice and that, and I was
like, Wow, that's what I've lovedbecause growing up in Singapore,
we, it's a multicultural society.
So, you know, we grew up withIndian food, Malay food, Chinese
food, and then Western food.
(30:00):
And I remember my mothergoing to the market and the
man would be selling spices.
And then she would say, okay, I wantto make curry to give me the blend of
Curry spice and he would mix it for her.
And yeah, I, I forgot about that.
And when I went to my best friend'splace and she had that, and it was like,
Oh, that was just like a body sensationand feeling for me going, uh huh.
(30:25):
Yeah.
You know, this makes sense.
And this feels like home.
Absolutely.
Are you, do you have troublegetting spices where you live?
No, no, it's, it's, um, it's beeneasy to get it because we do have
a few Indian stores in the area andthey carry most of the spices that
(30:48):
we, that we need for our cooking.
So it's easy.
It's easy to get it.
That's great.
Writing, poetry.
Please tell us about poetry and how youuse it for daily life, and I should have
(31:10):
asked you this beforehand, but if youwould like to share a poetry with us Yes.
So I will share that, but I will,I'll tell you, like I said, you know.
The greatest gift of mydepression was writing.
I used to write my thoughtsbecause I used to feel very heavy.
(31:34):
And when I wrote, I used to feel light.
So that's how I relate to it.
And much later in life, I, Ikind of got to understand that
they call this as journaling.
I understood it much later.
And, um, I'm a great advocate for thatbecause I, I, I think that Sometimes,
(31:56):
or many times, we could be bottlingup with emotions and thoughts.
And it's sometimes difficult toexpress our innermost thoughts, even
to the people who are close to us.
Sometimes you can, sometimes you cannot.
And sometimes it's also situational,because People are away, they
(32:16):
are far from you, you cannotreach them, and things like that.
Writing is so simple, becauseyou just need a pen and paper,
and you just pour yourself.
You don't even need asystem, to be very honest.
Of course, nowadays people use tabsand things like that, but, but I
think once you start writing, I mean,at least this was my experience.
(32:37):
I started feeling very relieved.
And, and then how that writing evolvedinto poetry, into codes and stories,
is, I think it kind of magicallystarted happening on its own.
So now I write, um, off lead I've gottento this whole phase of writing codes and
(32:58):
poems, and that's That's going to be mysecond book, which I've already started
compiling, and I just wrote something.
It's very brief, but it says, so I'm goingto, I'm going to share that with you.
It's called the empath.
I feel what you feel.
(33:20):
I'm here to heal.
This is my path.
I'm an empath.
So that's one.
Very recently, I justwrote these four lines.
I do have something more, whichis very close to my heart, which
(33:42):
is, is also, I like that poem alot, and it's called The Reason.
, So it goes like that.
There is a reason we all are here.
Be spent many seasons.
and a lifetime to find that reason.
(34:03):
For those of you whofound it are on their way.
For those of you who didn'tare finding their way.
I'm light.
I come from the world of light.
I'm here to spread joy anddelight with my words of insight.
(34:24):
This is my reason.
I found it along the way.
I'm an actor in God's play.
Oh, beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
I would love to talk about your experiencein HR Incorporate, you know, with, because
(34:50):
you did a lot of work with the inclusivecultures and also mental health practices.
What was some of thethings that stood out?
So when I look at my HR journey as.
(35:10):
a professional.
So my total overall corporate experienceis two decades out of which I've spent
at least HR and two of the roles thatI did in HR were leadership roles.
So, uh, because I was in thoseposition, I was able to create
that influence, uh, on the teamand, you know, create that impact.
(35:35):
Um, one of the important thingsWas, um, which I always believed
and which I believe even now Iwouldn't say believed is that
bringing your whole self in at work.
Right.
And, um, I have always been anadvocate of the thought that
(35:59):
you bring your whole self in.
That means, um, you know, we are, weare creating a workplace that is beyond
all the different kind of biases, right?
Um, that is what was our endeavor andthat is something that I stand for.
Um, and, um, so I've been workingin that area for some time.
(36:22):
right through my experience.
I, I think I was doing it, but Ididn't realize that I was doing it.
Um, so what we did was that in my lastrole, we were hiring a lot of people who
work on, you know, contract, which isa short term assignment into the role.
And, um, um, we had a huge number torecruit, very difficult to recruit.
(36:47):
We were recruiting some 600 people and Weare competing against a market where there
are a lot of permanent jobs available.
Why would somebody join ashort term assignment, right?
And how do you differentiate yourself?
So one of the things that we didwas that we started extending all
(37:10):
the employee benefits that we had.
Most of them, which were doable tothe people who came also on contract.
So whether it was giving them medicalinsurance, whether it was giving them
life insurance, whether it was makingthem part of some of the big employee
engagement events, we did all of that.
And most of all was alsoabout driving respect.
(37:34):
I respect you for who you are.
And we had, so there were different.
Things that we were doing to emphasizeon this aspect of respect, because
I definitely want to be in a placewhere I'm respected for who I am.
Right.
(37:55):
And I think when we started,um, incorporating this as part
of the organization's culture,it was easy to move forward.
Attract talent because you have toknow one thing that if I recruited
100 people and they have good wordto say, they are the ones who are
(38:15):
getting me the next 200 people.
And then those 200 aregetting another 400.
So I think it is.
It's about it's about what you stand for.
And, and, and I think By doingsome of these initiatives and
making them inclusive, it reallyhelped us to attract talent.
(38:36):
Currently, I volunteer in my son's schooland I'm part of the Equity Alliance
under the Parents Teacher Association.
I've been leading thatcommittee in the last one year.
They started that committee last year andI kind of had a leadership role in that.
And, um, we've done some initiatives.
(38:57):
It's under that alliance to, um,you know, to have inclusivity
also at the school level.
And my son is only five years old.
So we are talking about, youknow, at that level, right?
You kind of start building a system,a community, and a way for kids
(39:20):
to be a part of, you know, whererespect becomes, is the core value.
Because respect is the core valuebecause that's what you want to
teach your child that he respectshimself for where he comes from, and
he extends the same to the others.
And that is the core value that weare trying to teach our child because
(39:41):
then you have to be respectful of.
And I think that when I'm able toinculcate that in my own child,
then all the differences melt away.
Right, because then there is nolike, oh, you know, he or she
belongs to this color or thatreligion or he or she has a different
mindset that doesn't come at play.
(40:02):
We are operating from a different contextand a very powerful context of respect.
So that is something that we areworking on at the school level now.
When you think about your life,
how did you learn respect?
Or was there someone, you know,like an elder who taught you
(40:25):
this is how respect looks like?
Um, I think I would givethat credit to my parents.
And the reason I would give thatis because, um, I grew up in a
family and definitely we, youknow, my grandfather was the
(40:46):
authoritative figure in the family.
But I'm glad that all that didnot rub onto my father, who was
far more calmer as a person.
And I always was encouraged and empoweredto have an opinion and express myself.
Um, and I think it was both my parentsbecause I was never ever told To shut up.
(41:14):
Yes, shut up.
When I was being disrespectful ina conversation, yes, you know, they
would correct me and things like that.
But if I had an opinion on somethingwhich was contrary to their
opinion, they never stopped me.
They never stopped me.
And I think that is a great
parenting skill, I would say,because when you are not gonna
(41:39):
suppress the voice of a child.
You know, it starts from there, right?
I mean, and, um, and I thinkit started like that for us.
It started like that.
And, and, you know, today when youwere asking me that question, that's
how I'm thinking that that's howbecause my parents never, you know,
(42:00):
said, you know, you cannot have anopinion, you cannot talk like that,
or, like, you know, sometimes Youknow, the elders will try to, you know,
bring their position and authority.
And I have challenged that.
And my parents didn't say, shutup, you cannot challenge this guy.
(42:20):
Because if they felt I was right, andI was kind of countering person in
a respectful way, they allowed it.
They didn't stop me, you know,and which is something that You
know, which I do to my son as well.
I, yes, I have a boundary that hecannot be disrespectful or he's,
(42:41):
you know, he can hurt someone orthings like that, not like that.
But if he has a view,I don't suppress him.
I don't suppress himbecause I want him to be.
To have his view.
And so we had an incident.
Uh, you know, probably I don'tknow if it is the right example.
So I went with him for one of the library.
(43:03):
A library was having some kind of asession on birding and Uh, you know,
there's someone who was leading thatworkshop, kept asking questions.
And every time I saw my son puttinghis hand up, I have never seen
him in a classroom situation.
So I didn't even know.
And I'm like, why is he?
So he was, he had every time, youknow, to contribute something.
(43:24):
And some things, of course, are verydifferent than what, you know, someone
who was leading was asking, but he, Ididn't correct him because for me, If
he wants to say something, and this isa very open forum, let him say it, even
if the topic is a little bit digressing,I don't want to stop him because I
(43:44):
want him to have his voice, you know?
So I think these were some thingswhich my parents were doing
it to us, like we had a voice.
And they didn't suppress it and Ithink it started there and that's why
today, maybe that's what I carry withme and that's what I'm advocating.
(44:06):
And I think that is so important becausein some Asian culture, traditionally,
women, girls, are not allowed to have avoice, you know, girls were taught when
they were younger is your job is to bequiet, to listen and respect the elders.
(44:26):
That was it.
You know, you, you don't have anopinion, so I'm so happy to hear that
your parents like allowed you to Yeah.
Have a voice.
And then now, you know, obvi, itis so obvious that it's impactful
because of the work that you doand how they're raising child.
(44:49):
Thank you.
Uh, last question of thepodcast is always advice.
I always say advice from an auntie.
Well, you're an Indian auntie,but I would love your advice
because of your life experience for
(45:10):
an Indian woman immigrant.
So, um, my advice as an Indianwoman immigrant would be that
Be you,
(45:30):
irrespective of you could havebeen a different culture and
different setting, still be you.
Um, and it starts withbe authentically you.
It's only when we start wearing allthese facades and you want to just,
(45:50):
you know, yes, I want to blend in.
But I don't want to leave who I am.
I don't want to walk into a room, um, youknow, where I cut my roots and walk in.
My roots are my strength.
And that's me.
So, be you.
(46:11):
Yes, be you.
There are, uh, you know, there arediplomatic ways of doing it and you
have to use some diplomacy in, in, inyour, um, you know, in the way you want
to blend in into a different society.
But I think the most important thingis that when I am being myself.
And I be myself.
(46:31):
What I also try to do is that I createthat space for myself to be with
others, but I also create an opportunityand space for them to be themselves.
And, and I, and I thinkthat's why I advocate be you.
The second thing, which I'm addingto this is love yourself because
(46:57):
Loving yourself is a journey.
It's the same way, you know, when I'min a loving relationship with someone,
not every phase is the great phase.
I mean, you know, with my husband,we go through our ups and downs,
uh, but I don't stop loving him.
We have difficult moments.
And in those moments, I remindmyself of what, who he is.
(47:19):
What he brings onto the table, what,how he contributes to that relationship.
It's hard, but I remindmyself, it's the same way.
When I love myself, thereare hard moments, right?
There are things, there are dayswhen I have goofed up big time.
And I mean, I've sat with myself andwas like, oh shit, why did I do it?
I don't know what got into me.
How did I behave like that?
(47:40):
Why did I say those words and all that?
But I think sitting withmyself, reflecting and then
saying, okay, I goofed up.
I messed up.
What can I learn from here?
What can I do better?
Um, what if, you know, if thesituation was to come back
(48:00):
again, how will I conduct myself?
What will I say?
So, you know, just then rephrasing,reframing all that within my
mind, I'm able to be off that.
And then I come back and tellingmyself, I still love myself.
So it's loving myself.
It's also a journey.
(48:22):
It's ongoing process.
It's going to be work in progress.
It's not like, you know, I love myself.
I'm ultimate.
And you know, all of these are perfect.
It's not going to be like that.
So loving myself and being myself,these are two core messages I have.
If I'm allowed to have a thirdmessage, then I would like
(48:44):
to add is follow your dreams.
Follow your dreams.
Because when I'm pursuing my dream.
And I have a setback.
It's my dream, which is going topick me up from my deepest slumber
and tell me, still go there,get up, you can still go there.
(49:08):
So when I went through my whole,this whole depression, I've
had these phases in my life.
And I always have.
caught off building a great life, youknow, a dream of having a fulfilling life.
And when I say great mean fulfilling life,you know, a balanced, fulfilling life.
And I think this dream of having abalanced, fulfilling life was something
(49:33):
that picked me up on days when I havefelt the lowest low, like I told you, I
went through a phase where I was like, Idon't want to live anymore, you know, but
because I had this dream, which said, Youknow, you can have a fulfilling, balanced
life where you are flourishing in everyway that just that voice kept ringing in.
(49:54):
And even though that voice was softand, you know, in, in midst of all
these different voices, which were sonegative, this voice was still there.
And that's because I dreamt like that.
I was always dreaming and Icontinued dreaming like that.
So I think pursuing your dreams.
is a greatest motivator.
(50:17):
Because even if you failed, so what?
You followed it, right?
You at least tried.
And for me, it's always been that.
Like, you know, the day I die.
Okay, I had this big dream.
I probably achieved only 10percent of it, but I tried.
Like, if somebody had to sit in frontin judgment in front of me and said,
(50:40):
you know, what do you have to say?
I was like, I tried.
Okay, it's fine.
I failed.
It's fine.
But I tried.
I don't want to die with thisregret of Oh God, you know, I
didn't try, I didn't do anything.
I don't want to be that person.
I can't think like that.
That's a beautiful advice andI really, uh, the, I tried, you
(51:06):
know, not living with regrets.
That's how I live a lot of my life.
That's why I've changedcareer a few times.
And when I was, I was a corporate banker,became a yoga teacher and I was When I was
in corporate banking, I took, I was like,do I want to go to yoga teacher training?
(51:28):
And one of my colleagues, I often say,sometimes people show up and you don't.
Even though, like they might be in yourlife for two minutes, but they are there,
they're sent by the Spirit of God, whoeveryour person is, to give you a message.
And I was contemplating, I was indilemma, and then this colleague whom
(51:48):
I didn't know very well, she lookedat me, she goes, what's going on?
So I told her, and thenshe's like, just do it.
You don't want to regret not doing itwhen you look back five years later.
You never know, life is short, youknow, we don't know how long we have.
So just do it.
And I thought, that's true.
So I did it and it shifted thetrajectory of my life, right?
(52:12):
I know.
Okay, I promise this isthe last last question.
Where or who do you getyour strength from that?
You know, we all, a lot of us have theinternal strength that Especially when
you say just follow your dreams, youknow, even when you were in depression,
you know that voice and like for me,a lot of that strength comes from
(52:37):
believing in spirit in universe right.
And then it also comes from mypractice my ritual stuff like that.
What, what about you.
So I would agree with youPatricia because mine is the same.
Thank you.
I, I believe in God and whatevername you want to call it.
(53:00):
Every religion has a different name.
I believe that there is order to thisuniverse and in a very magical way.
And our life has that order.
Sometimes we cannot see it, right?
And sometimes I'm witnessing mylife and vis a vis life of others.
And, uh, there is a magic.
(53:22):
And, and for me, it's alwaysbeen that, that force, that God,
the higher power, whatever youcall it, is always guiding you.
Life's purpose Is to, to, you know,to help you to grow and evolve.
And I have, and I think when I havegiven myself that context and belief
(53:49):
that, you know, everything andanything that's happening in my life.
Is for my good and is for my evolution andis, is teaching me something, you know,
like I've put myself as a student and lifeas a teacher, it, then every experience
(54:10):
that I go through is just an experiencethat is evolving me to the next level.
And it is my level.
It's not the world's level.
Right.
It's not like, you know, the worldtells you, Oh, you know, when you
reach this level, no, because then youare, then you are away from all that.
Right.
Yes.
It's not that I don't want tobe appreciated in the world.
(54:32):
And, you know, I don't wantto be, yes, I want all that.
But I think just natural relying onyourself and how you view yourself,
then how the world views you.
And I think once we start thisjourney with our own self.
With the, like for me, like withthe belief in the higher power that
(54:53):
it's always evolving me to becomebetter version of myself, then
what's happening externally in theworld is a different game, right?
It, it, it affects me sometimes, but it'snot something where I get stuck for a
long time because I'm running my own race.
(55:14):
You know, I'm running my race with mywho I was yesterday to who I am today
and who I intend to become in the future.
And I think that's, that'ssomething that keeps me going.
That is something that keeps me going.
And I do want to admit that thereare temporary moments where you will,
like, I compare myself with others andI can be in that, um, in that lane.
(55:39):
And, and it's only that.
I have to catch myself whatI'm doing to myself, right?
So I think Because I work on my awarenessall the time, I'm busy working on it.
I'm able to catch myselfquickly as the time is passing.
I'm able to catch myself quickly.
(56:01):
So if earlier I was in that trap formonths, you know, then it becomes weeks
and it's days and now it's a few moments.
And I'm like, Hey, you know, maybeI'm feeling jealous of this person.
And then I say, I.
Pointed to myself, Hey,I'm jealous of this person.
Then I just tell myself, stop.
That person's journey is different.
(56:23):
So is mine.
And I tell God, I pray to you.
I don't want to compare my life withthat person because I do not know what is
happening in that person's life, you know,because what, what gets painted outside
is not what people are going through.
And I have had experiences where peoplepaint this live in front of you, because
we live in the world of social media,but they could be going to, and I, I,
(56:49):
I have understood that with so manyclose relationships and friends, but
now I'm like, don't need to compare.
We all are running our own race and,um, and with the belief that, you know,
this race is to make us better versionsof us, better version of ourselves.
And that's about it.
(57:11):
So I, I remind myself.
I remind myself that often.
I hope you enjoy that episode.
I really love what she said in the endabout comparing ourselves to others.
In the Chinese culture, we havea saying rén bǐ rén , qì sǐ rén.
(57:34):
and what that means is constantlycomparing oneself to others.
will.
Only make one angry.
It's a Chinese proverb.
And when you look at the world,Around us, the social media
ads and the advertisement.
The underlying message isalways if you have this, or if
(57:54):
you do that, if you wear this.
You have this espresso machineor if you can afford X, Y, Z.
You will be better.
You will be more loved.
You'll feel better.
But.
Constantly comparing.
Yourself to other people.
I think of it as a gamethat you will never win.
(58:18):
Because when do you stop?
Self-love self-worthneeds to come from within.
So my invitation for you this weekis to notice, be mindful of all the
ways you compare yourself to others.
And then remind yourself that.
(58:39):
You have more than enough.
Have a great week.
And be good to yourself.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
(58:59):
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
(59:20):
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
Hi, everyone.
Welcome to another episodeof conversations with your
Chinese Auntie YiYi that's me.
I hope you're doing well, and September.
is going well, for you, withthe kids going back to school.
If you have children, All justsassing into cooler weather.
(00:24):
In this episode, I talked to Veena Chugh.
Veena is a published, author a certified.
yoga teacher.
And a mother.
Veena discusses her journeyfrom immigrating, from
India to the United States.
We also talk about culture adjustments.
And Veena briefly shares her.
(00:46):
Postpartum.
experience.
So content warning, Veena does talk about.
Thoughts of suicide.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
Hello Veena.
Hi, Patricia.
Welcome to the podcast and thankyou so much for saying yes.
(01:11):
I'm happy to be here and glad to,you know, share to, uh, share and
explore different thoughts today.
Patricia, I'm thankful to you as well.
Please introduce yourself, whereyou're from, what do you do,
okay.
Thank you.
So my name is Veena Chugh and currentlyI would call myself an implant in USA.
(01:36):
I'm originally from India.
I have been living in the UnitedStates for the past seven years.
I am an HR corporate executivewith 20 years of work
experience and leadership roles.
I'm also a published author of a bookwhich is a collection of short stories.
(01:57):
It's called as Pink Roseand Other Short Stories.
I'm a certified yoga teacher and a coach.
I'm pivoting into new directionsthis year, compiling my second book,
have set up a business and uh, Awhole lot of new things happening.
So I'm excited about thisnew phase in my life.
(02:19):
Oh, let's talk about thesecond book in a bit.
How was it moving fromIndia to the States?
Was that culture shock for you?
Yes, in a way, yes.
So, The reason I moved was, uh, because Igot married and my husband is based here.
(02:40):
So that got me to this country andfrom a culture shock, absolutely.
Because, um, you know, staying in acity of Mumbai, which is always like.
bustling and so much of noiseand people and everything.
And then I come to a town calledConshohocken, which is like 20 minutes
away from the Philadelphia downtown.
(03:03):
It's very quiet, it's peaceful.
And so, so in the sense, it's,it's a big change in that sense.
And, you know, culturally, asyou know, as, as things started
evolving, um, you know, I startedunderstanding that how different it
is from the world where I come from.
(03:23):
Do you prefer Mumbai's busyness ordo you prefer the quietness now?
Um, so like I said, youknow, I'm an author.
Um, so I like this part of it a lotin the sense which helps my reflection
and my writing, a pace of lifelike this is very good for myself.
(03:45):
Spirit.
Uh, I miss the busyness of Mumbaispecifically during the festivals
because, you know, the color, thevibrancy, the food, all that I miss.
So, so I, I would say that slowlyConshohocken has started growing
on me, but there are definitely alot of parts of Mumbai that I miss.
(04:10):
So, growing up, growing up in Mumbai,I was, you know, I grew up in a
joint family where, you know, you'reliving with your aunts and uncles
and even like your married uncles.
So we were a family of 15 peoplestaying together in one large
apartment, um, lot of kids.
And, um, it, it just always feltlike Like ongoing party going on.
(04:33):
And, um, um, it was, it wasfun playing with my cousins.
We were playing board games.
We were going outdoor, we wereplaying together, we were doing
things, a lot of things together.
That was the great partof growing together.
The not so great part was thatspecifically when it comes to, you know,
(04:55):
the dynamics within the families andbecause I come from a business family,
so what happens is There is a business,everybody's involved in that business,
somebody could be doing well by growingthe business, somebody is not doing that.
So that kind of brings in some frictionbetween the family members who are
(05:17):
putting in their best and getting theresults and there are some who are not.
So I think that kind of then Kindof seeps into also the relationship
dynamics within the family.
And when that part of it emerges,then you do see the ugly aspects
of a joint family system.
(05:37):
Um, so I would say that it I, ifanybody had to tell me if I had to
rate it, it's going to be 50 50.
Yeah, that is, that, that's good.
That's pro and cons, isn't it?
Being, being in a familydynamic like that.
You're never, you're never alone.
You're never lonely because there'salways family members around.
(06:00):
But yeah, things happen.
I know you have a young child.
How do you find raising him in the States?
The Western, ideas of parenting.
Is it a struggle for you?
Um, what I would say is that initiallywhen I, you know, when we started the
(06:24):
journey, it right, it starts from theday one, you, you're getting your, like,
when you get your baby back home fromthe hospital, I know that everyone's
crib is ready and, uh, we, we didnot have a crib ready in that sense.
Right.
And here I hear of people, youknow, a separate baby room is ready.
(06:49):
Everything, you know, has been set up.
I didn't have any of that.
Um, so we started co sleepingwith our baby and everyone said,
Don't you know there is SIDS?
And I'm like, what is SIDS?
Oh, you know, kids die and sleepand all these things happen, they
roll over and things like that.
(07:10):
And I had not even heard of that.
And so, you know, there's likethis fear now that has set in.
But so, okay, we got the grip.
I tried to put my baby, my baby was readyto nap during the days, but in the night
it was difficult, you know, so what, whathappened was eventually I stopped doing
(07:32):
that completely because I was not alignedto it, it didn't feel right, I just wanted
my baby to be close to me, so even ifI'm resting, my baby is close to me on
the bed, and if he needs my attention, Ican pick him up you know, quickly rather
than, you know, going to another roomor even to the crib within the room.
(07:53):
So that it said that was the firstpoint of, uh, you know, difference.
The second part as it evolved was thatthankfully I could breastfeed my son.
And, uh, I did it for, um,considerably a longer time than
what people consider normal here.
(08:15):
So, he, he, I breastfedhim for three years.
And, uh, I was mocked.
Also by my son's pediatrician, includingmy husband, as well, because everybody
in the Western culture thinks, okay,three months, six months, one year,
uh, okay, some people are progressiveand might do it a little over a year,
(08:40):
two years is really high, and threeyears is like, Unheard of, right?
For me, Patricia, I justfelt it was right to do it.
And I just went with it because whenI was researching, I found that what
a mother's milk can do to the baby,you know, a powder milk, or even, you
(09:01):
know, if you're introducing cow milkor anything, cannot give that immunity.
And we were right in the middle of it.
So if COVID then, andhow could I protect him?
There was no other way to protecthim because he's so young.
And so, so my internal callwas that my milk can give
(09:23):
him that immunity and safety.
And I want to go by that no matter, youknow, what the world is going to say.
So there were these conflicting ideas.
things that were evolving,um, at every stage.
Um, and I've come to kind of dowhat my heart asked me to do.
(09:45):
And I, I follow it and I follow my child.
I follow my child.
So people here start trainingtheir Child, um, you know,
the potty trained them, right?
Like 18 months and two years.
And I didn't start that.
I don't know.
It just didn't feel right.
He was ready and I didn't want to createfrustration for him and for myself.
(10:10):
And, um, Pressures on him and myself, Ijust waited even till three years and,
you know, just when he was three slowlyI introduced and it was so smooth for me.
So before he could turn four, hewas ready because I also felt that,
you know, he was more receptive.
You know, he had picked up language,so it was easy to comprehend what
(10:33):
I was trying to do rather thanpushing it, you know, too early.
So these are some of the things that.
Are always in contrast with how, you know,how the Eastern belief is or my belief is
to, you know, to, to, to the world here.
Yeah.
And before I became a therapist, I wasa Chinese medicine practitioner, doctor.
(10:58):
And I often say to my clients, because abig part of my practice at that time was.
So, you know, I would see a lot ofwomen who are pregnant and I, they
often come back with these like whatyou share to us by what they want to do.
(11:20):
Their family might not agree,the pediatrician might not agree.
And I often say to them is that you gotto listen to your heart and your child.
I mean, you know, Whenever you can, right?
Because some things we know you needto go to the doctor for medical
advice, but whenever you can, youlisten, like I had a girlfriend.
(11:41):
She, her doctor wanted to induceher because the baby was late.
And I think it was six days late andshe's like, Nope, I know my child,
when she's ready, she'll come up.
Baby was born 12 days late, healthy.
so important to listen.
(12:02):
What advice would you give for especiallya woman of color, like yourself, who was
an immigrant, and also, like, Lackingthe community support will like if
they were going through the same thing.
What advice would you give them?
That's a great question, Patricia.
And the thought would be that becauseeach case will be unique and like barring
(12:28):
the cases, like we said, we agreedthat, you know, which needs a kind of a
difficult different medical intervention,if that's not You know, if, if not, if
that's not the kind of a case that we'retalking about in general, my advice to
every mom would be that follow what yourheart feels and, uh, follow it to the T.
(12:57):
And second thing, which, which wealready mentioned earlier in this
conversation is follow the childas well as you will progress.
Um, it's going to be hard.
You're going to feel lonely.
I have felt that to my bone.
Uh, also I felt it a little morebecause I was going through a
(13:18):
postpartum depression as well.
So all the more everythingbecame, you know, was getting
amplified for me emotionally.
So, but I stuck to my ground and IEven though there was pressure around
me from, you know, from significantpeople in my life, I just went
(13:41):
with what I felt was right to do.
And sometimes I would give in tothat thought, but I realized that
because my inner conviction was sostrong that even when I did that
for a, you know, for a brief periodand I wouldn't get the results, I
would say, Hey, this is not working.
(14:02):
I don't want to go by your thought.
It's not working because, because I'mso glued to that belief and my heart.
And I went back to that.
So my thought, um, to every mother, Youknow, or a person of color or is that you
are going to feel lonely, you will evenhave difficult, tough moments where you
(14:26):
are going to feel that there is nobodyfor you, but you have to know that.
Nobody else outside you knows yourchild more than you because that
is the advantage of being a motherbecause what happens is that nine month
journey that happens, you know, withyour child, you kind of have built
(14:49):
that psychic bond with the child,and, and you have to trust that.
And, and when you once you starttrusting that, then you realize that.
That's the right road for you.
And even in the interim, it might lookdifficult to do, but as you will start
trusting your own judgment and yourgut more and more often, you will see
(15:15):
that that's the right path for you.
And that's what happened forme along, along the road.
, will you share your journey withpostpartum because I find that A lot of
women don't talk about it, they sufferin silence, and I would love to just
(15:35):
shine a light on if you would shareyour journey with how long it took.
And are there any things were thereany things that you did that help.
That's a great question andI'm very happy to share.
So, I think within the first month.
(15:57):
When I went through the assessment job.
It was very clear that I was going througha postpartum depression and, um, the way
it looked like is that I had a lot ofintrusive thoughts and those intrusive,
intrusive thoughts would include, uh,you know, suicidal thoughts that would
include something wrong happening to thebaby and, you know, things like that.
(16:22):
And, um, So what I did was that, uh, Idefinitely was recommended to, you know,
take some kind of, uh, antidepressants,um, to see a therapist, um, gum counselor,
um, I chose not to take any medicationbecause I was breastfeeding, and my
(16:47):
Eastern belief doesn't allow me toinfuse my body with a lot of chemicals,
specifically when I'm breastfeeding.
So I said no to any medicines,but I chose to use you know,
interacting and expressing as a wayto help me navigate through this.
(17:08):
So I went through counseling cumtherapy for almost close to nine months.
Uh, and I, I was also in some sessionsjoined by my partner because when, when
postpartum depression happens, uh, it'san impact on The couple's relationship as
(17:31):
well, because, because your partner needsto understand what's going on, you know,
how thoughts play out and what kind ofsupport he can lend me during that time,
because, because you're also new parents.
And so you're already overwhelmedwith that new responsibility.
And it's very difficult to seeeach other in that light, like,
(17:54):
you know, my husband did not thinkthat you know I had this problem.
And even though it got detected, butwhen, you know, the interactions would
get played out, he wouldn't rememberthat, that, that I was going through
this, right, because, you know, inthat, uh, because he's tired, you
know, things that were happening.
So, um, it was a tough phase, but, uh,you know, going through therapy and
(18:20):
counseling had, what we also did wasthat we incorporated a family walk.
So we would walk around.
Luckily, we stay very close to the trail.
So we would go for, you know, all threeof us, you know, taking my son in the
stroller, we would go for this nice walk,you know, spending time in the nature.
My son was born in spring.
So, you know, in a way that helpedbecause we were through summer.
(18:44):
So we would just go for these walks.
Um, every time I felt these intense days.
intrusive thoughts.
I would just call my husband and luckilyhe was working from home and I would just
hold his hand and I would just say that,hey, you know, I'm not feeling okay.
I'm just having this gush ofthese thoughts, which are telling
(19:05):
me I'm going to lose my baby.
I'm going to do something to myself.
Uh, so, and so he would, so, youknow, I was present to myself.
And I would hold his hand and I wouldjust tell him this, and then he would
give me a hug and he would just say,you're going to get through this,
you're going to get through this.
So these were some of thethings that we did as a family.
(19:25):
And thankfully, you know, we wereout of that phase in a year's
time in less than a year's time.
Thank you for sharing that.
I'm so glad that, you foundthe support you needed and
your husband was there for you.
Yeah.
What do you do now?
For yourself, because weall know motherhood is.
(19:48):
difficult and challenging at times.
What do you do for yourself nowthat helps with your self care?
Yeah.
So, um, I definitely have incorporatedat least a 10 minutes of exercise
come yoga in my, in my routine.
(20:09):
I'm also a certified yoga teacher.
I told you that, uh, I also haveincorporated meditation, which
could range anywhere between.
From 10 to 20 minutes, depending on,you know, the time I have on hand.
So these are my default that happens.
At least I stick to aroutine of doing meditation.
(20:29):
I try to do all days of the week.
Yoga is at least five times in a week.
And I write.
I write because writing ismy way of expressing myself.
So, uh, I would say that journaling,writing my thoughts, and, um, that has
(20:51):
helped me to kind of, you know, youknow, it's helped me to heal because
every time I, I feel, and it's not justrelated to the depression part, but you
know, sometimes you have those heavymoments in your life, but you know, then
there are challenges, different kind ofchallenges life is throwing at you, but
you know, just writing notes to myself.
(21:13):
I have found a lot ofrelief in doing that.
And, um, the, the beauty of that isthat by doing that all the time, I do
not know how I started doing poetry.
How it became codes.
How it became stories.
So I would say that Depression'sgreatest gift to me has been writing.
(21:38):
Mm mm Uh, I wanna talk about yourpoetry in a bit, but I am curious.
Did you practice yogawhen you were in India?
Yes.
Do you, so I was a yoga teacher forabout 10 years and from, yeah, from, but
(22:01):
from what I've heard from people fromIndia is that how we look at yoga in the
West is very different than in India.
What are your thoughts about it?
I would agree.
So, um, in India, what happens iswhen you look at yoga, um, so yoga
(22:26):
actually starts This union, right?
Your union of yourself tothe higher self, right?
So what happens is thatit includes everything.
It actually includesyour entire lifestyle.
So, um, it starts with,you know, thoughts.
It starts with what kindof diet you're having.
(22:50):
And then definitely the last part of yoga.
It includes, you know, the physicalaspect that you do, the asanas that we do.
And then, you know, you end itwith breathing and meditation.
But it actually starts withyour thought journey and your
diet, because what you eat.
(23:11):
Is what, so my quality of my thoughts isdetermined by what I eat and also with
the intent with which I eat and, uh, weall, I'm guilty of, you know, sometimes
just eating so quickly, not chewingvery well, and, you know, distracted
with television or a call or I'm on my,you know, laptop, uh, scrolling stuff.
(23:37):
So.
It actually starts from there.
So, so, so what we see in the West isthat, you know, they don't look at it
holistically, a part of yoga that does,that is being focused, at least for a
large part of whatever I know, is on onthe asana part and maybe they include
(23:59):
now breathing and meditation, butthey don't include the part of intent.
They don't include the part oftheology or you know thoughts and
the diet aspects which actuallycomplements the whole aspect of yoga.
So I think You have now so manydifferent versions of yoga that are
(24:19):
going around that it's very difficultto, for people to understand what it is.
Uh, for most of the people in theWest, it's like, you know, you
do the, I know this asana and I'mperfecting my 20 asanas and I'm, I
can do shirshasana and I can do this.
It's not that.
Yoga tells you, youhave to go by your body.
(24:39):
You know, and it alsostarts with your spirit.
It also starts with what kind ofintentions and thoughts I have.
That's far more, that's called Raj Yogabecause that is the highest form of yoga.
But while the West has focusedon Hatha Yoga, which is more
the body aspect of yoga.
(25:00):
So, so I, so for me, Ithink if we have to really.
have the absolute fruit ofwhat yoga can do to you.
It has to start at the top level, goto the diet level, and then definitely,
you know, the physical aspects and thenyou're doing meditation and breathing,
(25:20):
which is more of emotion regulation.
I love that you bring up the diet part.
So coming from, from Singapore to from theeast, it's I don't know about you, but I
was brought up in a society and a cultureand a family where the food was looked
(25:43):
at as because also coming from a Chinesemedicine perspective, right, the food was
like this food is good for what organ.
And this would help to dispel heatthis food, if you're having your
period, it will help to nourish yourblood right so everything is like.
What is good for the body.
And when I first met my husband, many,many years ago, um, I said to him,
(26:09):
it's very interesting that oftentimesthe people I've met here is that
they don't look at food the same way.
And my husband said to me, youhave to understand that here,
like for him, he said we didn'tgrow up learning about nutrition.
It wasn't part of it.
Right.
(26:30):
With your upbringing,how was food looked at?
I would, I would guess with Ayurvedicmedicine and the Eastern way of thinking.
Yes.
How did that impact theway you look at food?
So, um, I think a lot of, um, Things thatwe did in the way we cook and the way
(26:52):
we do things at home was always with thethought that this is good for your system.
This is good for cleansing you.
So, for example, when, when we were Okay.
When we were younger, when I felt sick,or if I had a stomach issue, um, I
remember my grandmom, um, uh, so she,she had a herb, and she would boil that
(27:19):
herb, and then, um, you know, she woulduse mint, and things like that, and I
was given this herbal soup, which wasso bitter, but the fact was that it
helped to clean, cleanse the system.
And it was, it was a plantbased, it was herb based thing.
So that is the kind ofthought it was there.
(27:39):
And even like, when you look atthe spices that we use, like,
you know, we use turmeric.
Turmeric is good for your information.
It is good even overall.
Yes, you cannot do it, especiallyif people have acidity and also
you do have to regulate theamount that you're going to use.
So, so I think our spicesand herbs that we use.
(28:01):
in, in what we eat, uh, was so mucha part of, you know, helping the
balance, balancing our body, bodyfrom Ayurvedic perspective, because
Ayurveda has different levels, likeevery body type is different and you
need these kind of foods to regulate it.
So I think it was, it is so much ingrainedin the day to day of our life that
(28:26):
sometimes you don't even realize it that,you know, We are actually following in
our Vedic lifestyle or it's somethingthat is passed on from the elders, you
know, to the, to the, to the generation.
It's only, I started understandingthat once I, you know, like I
said, I certified into yoga andI started reading a lot about it.
(28:50):
So I think it's.
It's kind of embed in our culture, youknow, and it's being passed on as a
tradition to us without us realizingit, that actually what they're doing
is they're passing on an Ayurvediclifestyle or they're passing a passing
on an Eastern way of a mindset.
(29:11):
You don't even realize that.
And I love that you mentioned the spices.
So my, one of my best friends is Indian.
We met at university andit was still really close.
And when she moved into her firstplace after university, and I went to
visit her, uh, the spices, she justopened the cupboard and she goes, all
(29:38):
right, we're going to make something.
And she just, she showed me allthe spice and that, and I was
like, Wow, that's what I've lovedbecause growing up in Singapore,
we, it's a multicultural society.
So, you know, we grew up withIndian food, Malay food, Chinese
food, and then Western food.
(30:00):
And I remember my mothergoing to the market and the
man would be selling spices.
And then she would say, okay, I wantto make curry to give me the blend of
Curry spice and he would mix it for her.
And yeah, I, I forgot about that.
And when I went to my best friend'splace and she had that, and it was like,
Oh, that was just like a body sensationand feeling for me going, uh huh.
(30:25):
Yeah.
You know, this makes sense.
And this feels like home.
Absolutely.
Are you, do you have troublegetting spices where you live?
No, no, it's, it's, um, it's beeneasy to get it because we do have
a few Indian stores in the area andthey carry most of the spices that
(30:48):
we, that we need for our cooking.
So it's easy.
It's easy to get it.
That's great.
Writing, poetry.
Please tell us about poetry and how youuse it for daily life, and I should have
(31:10):
asked you this beforehand, but if youwould like to share a poetry with us Yes.
So I will share that, but I will,I'll tell you, like I said, you know.
The greatest gift of mydepression was writing.
I used to write my thoughtsbecause I used to feel very heavy.
(31:34):
And when I wrote, I used to feel light.
So that's how I relate to it.
And much later in life, I, Ikind of got to understand that
they call this as journaling.
I understood it much later.
And, um, I'm a great advocate for thatbecause I, I, I think that Sometimes,
(31:56):
or many times, we could be bottlingup with emotions and thoughts.
And it's sometimes difficult toexpress our innermost thoughts, even
to the people who are close to us.
Sometimes you can, sometimes you cannot.
And sometimes it's also situational,because People are away, they
(32:16):
are far from you, you cannotreach them, and things like that.
Writing is so simple, becauseyou just need a pen and paper,
and you just pour yourself.
You don't even need asystem, to be very honest.
Of course, nowadays people use tabsand things like that, but, but I
think once you start writing, I mean,at least this was my experience.
(32:37):
I started feeling very relieved.
And, and then how that writing evolvedinto poetry, into codes and stories,
is, I think it kind of magicallystarted happening on its own.
So now I write, um, off lead I've gottento this whole phase of writing codes and
(32:58):
poems, and that's That's going to be mysecond book, which I've already started
compiling, and I just wrote something.
It's very brief, but it says, so I'm goingto, I'm going to share that with you.
It's called the empath.
I feel what you feel.
(33:20):
I'm here to heal.
This is my path.
I'm an empath.
So that's one.
Very recently, I justwrote these four lines.
I do have something more, whichis very close to my heart, which
(33:42):
is, is also, I like that poem alot, and it's called The Reason.
, So it goes like that.
There is a reason we all are here.
Be spent many seasons.
and a lifetime to find that reason.
(34:03):
For those of you whofound it are on their way.
For those of you who didn'tare finding their way.
I'm light.
I come from the world of light.
I'm here to spread joy anddelight with my words of insight.
(34:24):
This is my reason.
I found it along the way.
I'm an actor in God's play.
Oh, beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
I would love to talk about your experiencein HR Incorporate, you know, with, because
(34:50):
you did a lot of work with the inclusivecultures and also mental health practices.
What was some of thethings that stood out?
So when I look at my HR journey as.
(35:10):
a professional.
So my total overall corporate experienceis two decades out of which I've spent
at least HR and two of the roles thatI did in HR were leadership roles.
So, uh, because I was in thoseposition, I was able to create
that influence, uh, on the teamand, you know, create that impact.
(35:35):
Um, one of the important thingsWas, um, which I always believed
and which I believe even now Iwouldn't say believed is that
bringing your whole self in at work.
Right.
And, um, I have always been anadvocate of the thought that
(35:59):
you bring your whole self in.
That means, um, you know, we are, weare creating a workplace that is beyond
all the different kind of biases, right?
Um, that is what was our endeavor andthat is something that I stand for.
Um, and, um, so I've been workingin that area for some time.
(36:22):
right through my experience.
I, I think I was doing it, but Ididn't realize that I was doing it.
Um, so what we did was that in my lastrole, we were hiring a lot of people who
work on, you know, contract, which isa short term assignment into the role.
And, um, um, we had a huge number torecruit, very difficult to recruit.
(36:47):
We were recruiting some 600 people and Weare competing against a market where there
are a lot of permanent jobs available.
Why would somebody join ashort term assignment, right?
And how do you differentiate yourself?
So one of the things that we didwas that we started extending all
(37:10):
the employee benefits that we had.
Most of them, which were doable tothe people who came also on contract.
So whether it was giving them medicalinsurance, whether it was giving them
life insurance, whether it was makingthem part of some of the big employee
engagement events, we did all of that.
And most of all was alsoabout driving respect.
(37:34):
I respect you for who you are.
And we had, so there were different.
Things that we were doing to emphasizeon this aspect of respect, because
I definitely want to be in a placewhere I'm respected for who I am.
Right.
(37:55):
And I think when we started,um, incorporating this as part
of the organization's culture,it was easy to move forward.
Attract talent because you have toknow one thing that if I recruited
100 people and they have good wordto say, they are the ones who are
(38:15):
getting me the next 200 people.
And then those 200 aregetting another 400.
So I think it is.
It's about it's about what you stand for.
And, and, and I think By doingsome of these initiatives and
making them inclusive, it reallyhelped us to attract talent.
(38:36):
Currently, I volunteer in my son's schooland I'm part of the Equity Alliance
under the Parents Teacher Association.
I've been leading thatcommittee in the last one year.
They started that committee last year andI kind of had a leadership role in that.
And, um, we've done some initiatives.
(38:57):
It's under that alliance to, um,you know, to have inclusivity
also at the school level.
And my son is only five years old.
So we are talking about, youknow, at that level, right?
You kind of start building a system,a community, and a way for kids
(39:20):
to be a part of, you know, whererespect becomes, is the core value.
Because respect is the core valuebecause that's what you want to
teach your child that he respectshimself for where he comes from, and
he extends the same to the others.
And that is the core value that weare trying to teach our child because
(39:41):
then you have to be respectful of.
And I think that when I'm able toinculcate that in my own child,
then all the differences melt away.
Right, because then there is nolike, oh, you know, he or she
belongs to this color or thatreligion or he or she has a different
mindset that doesn't come at play.
(40:02):
We are operating from a different contextand a very powerful context of respect.
So that is something that we areworking on at the school level now.
When you think about your life,
how did you learn respect?
Or was there someone, you know,like an elder who taught you
(40:25):
this is how respect looks like?
Um, I think I would givethat credit to my parents.
And the reason I would give thatis because, um, I grew up in a
family and definitely we, youknow, my grandfather was the
(40:46):
authoritative figure in the family.
But I'm glad that all that didnot rub onto my father, who was
far more calmer as a person.
And I always was encouraged and empoweredto have an opinion and express myself.
Um, and I think it was both my parentsbecause I was never ever told To shut up.
(41:14):
Yes, shut up.
When I was being disrespectful ina conversation, yes, you know, they
would correct me and things like that.
But if I had an opinion on somethingwhich was contrary to their
opinion, they never stopped me.
They never stopped me.
And I think that is a great
parenting skill, I would say,because when you are not gonna
(41:39):
suppress the voice of a child.
You know, it starts from there, right?
I mean, and, um, and I thinkit started like that for us.
It started like that.
And, and, you know, today when youwere asking me that question, that's
how I'm thinking that that's howbecause my parents never, you know,
(42:00):
said, you know, you cannot have anopinion, you cannot talk like that,
or, like, you know, sometimes Youknow, the elders will try to, you know,
bring their position and authority.
And I have challenged that.
And my parents didn't say, shutup, you cannot challenge this guy.
(42:20):
Because if they felt I was right, andI was kind of countering person in
a respectful way, they allowed it.
They didn't stop me, you know,and which is something that You
know, which I do to my son as well.
I, yes, I have a boundary that hecannot be disrespectful or he's,
(42:41):
you know, he can hurt someone orthings like that, not like that.
But if he has a view,I don't suppress him.
I don't suppress himbecause I want him to be.
To have his view.
And so we had an incident.
Uh, you know, probably I don'tknow if it is the right example.
So I went with him for one of the library.
(43:03):
A library was having some kind of asession on birding and Uh, you know,
there's someone who was leading thatworkshop, kept asking questions.
And every time I saw my son puttinghis hand up, I have never seen
him in a classroom situation.
So I didn't even know.
And I'm like, why is he?
So he was, he had every time, youknow, to contribute something.
(43:24):
And some things, of course, are verydifferent than what, you know, someone
who was leading was asking, but he, Ididn't correct him because for me, If
he wants to say something, and this isa very open forum, let him say it, even
if the topic is a little bit digressing,I don't want to stop him because I
(43:44):
want him to have his voice, you know?
So I think these were some thingswhich my parents were doing
it to us, like we had a voice.
And they didn't suppress it and Ithink it started there and that's why
today, maybe that's what I carry withme and that's what I'm advocating.
(44:06):
And I think that is so important becausein some Asian culture, traditionally,
women, girls, are not allowed to have avoice, you know, girls were taught when
they were younger is your job is to bequiet, to listen and respect the elders.
(44:26):
That was it.
You know, you, you don't have anopinion, so I'm so happy to hear that
your parents like allowed you to Yeah.
Have a voice.
And then now, you know, obvi, itis so obvious that it's impactful
because of the work that you doand how they're raising child.
(44:49):
Thank you.
Uh, last question of thepodcast is always advice.
I always say advice from an auntie.
Well, you're an Indian auntie,but I would love your advice
because of your life experience for
(45:10):
an Indian woman immigrant.
So, um, my advice as an Indianwoman immigrant would be that
Be you,
(45:30):
irrespective of you could havebeen a different culture and
different setting, still be you.
Um, and it starts withbe authentically you.
It's only when we start wearing allthese facades and you want to just,
(45:50):
you know, yes, I want to blend in.
But I don't want to leave who I am.
I don't want to walk into a room, um, youknow, where I cut my roots and walk in.
My roots are my strength.
And that's me.
So, be you.
(46:11):
Yes, be you.
There are, uh, you know, there arediplomatic ways of doing it and you
have to use some diplomacy in, in, inyour, um, you know, in the way you want
to blend in into a different society.
But I think the most important thingis that when I am being myself.
And I be myself.
(46:31):
What I also try to do is that I createthat space for myself to be with
others, but I also create an opportunityand space for them to be themselves.
And, and I, and I thinkthat's why I advocate be you.
The second thing, which I'm addingto this is love yourself because
(46:57):
Loving yourself is a journey.
It's the same way, you know, when I'min a loving relationship with someone,
not every phase is the great phase.
I mean, you know, with my husband,we go through our ups and downs,
uh, but I don't stop loving him.
We have difficult moments.
And in those moments, I remindmyself of what, who he is.
(47:19):
What he brings onto the table, what,how he contributes to that relationship.
It's hard, but I remindmyself, it's the same way.
When I love myself, thereare hard moments, right?
There are things, there are dayswhen I have goofed up big time.
And I mean, I've sat with myself andwas like, oh shit, why did I do it?
I don't know what got into me.
How did I behave like that?
(47:40):
Why did I say those words and all that?
But I think sitting withmyself, reflecting and then
saying, okay, I goofed up.
I messed up.
What can I learn from here?
What can I do better?
Um, what if, you know, if thesituation was to come back
(48:00):
again, how will I conduct myself?
What will I say?
So, you know, just then rephrasing,reframing all that within my
mind, I'm able to be off that.
And then I come back and tellingmyself, I still love myself.
So it's loving myself.
It's also a journey.
(48:22):
It's ongoing process.
It's going to be work in progress.
It's not like, you know, I love myself.
I'm ultimate.
And you know, all of these are perfect.
It's not going to be like that.
So loving myself and being myself,these are two core messages I have.
If I'm allowed to have a thirdmessage, then I would like
(48:44):
to add is follow your dreams.
Follow your dreams.
Because when I'm pursuing my dream.
And I have a setback.
It's my dream, which is going topick me up from my deepest slumber
and tell me, still go there,get up, you can still go there.
(49:08):
So when I went through my whole,this whole depression, I've
had these phases in my life.
And I always have.
caught off building a great life, youknow, a dream of having a fulfilling life.
And when I say great mean fulfilling life,you know, a balanced, fulfilling life.
And I think this dream of having abalanced, fulfilling life was something
(49:33):
that picked me up on days when I havefelt the lowest low, like I told you, I
went through a phase where I was like, Idon't want to live anymore, you know, but
because I had this dream, which said, Youknow, you can have a fulfilling, balanced
life where you are flourishing in everyway that just that voice kept ringing in.
(49:54):
And even though that voice was softand, you know, in, in midst of all
these different voices, which were sonegative, this voice was still there.
And that's because I dreamt like that.
I was always dreaming and Icontinued dreaming like that.
So I think pursuing your dreams.
is a greatest motivator.
(50:17):
Because even if you failed, so what?
You followed it, right?
You at least tried.
And for me, it's always been that.
Like, you know, the day I die.
Okay, I had this big dream.
I probably achieved only 10percent of it, but I tried.
Like, if somebody had to sit in frontin judgment in front of me and said,
(50:40):
you know, what do you have to say?
I was like, I tried.
Okay, it's fine.
I failed.
It's fine.
But I tried.
I don't want to die with thisregret of Oh God, you know, I
didn't try, I didn't do anything.
I don't want to be that person.
I can't think like that.
That's a beautiful advice andI really, uh, the, I tried, you
(51:06):
know, not living with regrets.
That's how I live a lot of my life.
That's why I've changedcareer a few times.
And when I was, I was a corporate banker,became a yoga teacher and I was When I was
in corporate banking, I took, I was like,do I want to go to yoga teacher training?
(51:28):
And one of my colleagues, I often say,sometimes people show up and you don't.
Even though, like they might be in yourlife for two minutes, but they are there,
they're sent by the Spirit of God, whoeveryour person is, to give you a message.
And I was contemplating, I was indilemma, and then this colleague whom
(51:48):
I didn't know very well, she lookedat me, she goes, what's going on?
So I told her, and thenshe's like, just do it.
You don't want to regret not doing itwhen you look back five years later.
You never know, life is short, youknow, we don't know how long we have.
So just do it.
And I thought, that's true.
So I did it and it shifted thetrajectory of my life, right?
(52:12):
I know.
Okay, I promise this isthe last last question.
Where or who do you getyour strength from that?
You know, we all, a lot of us have theinternal strength that Especially when
you say just follow your dreams, youknow, even when you were in depression,
you know that voice and like for me,a lot of that strength comes from
(52:37):
believing in spirit in universe right.
And then it also comes from mypractice my ritual stuff like that.
What, what about you.
So I would agree with youPatricia because mine is the same.
Thank you.
I, I believe in God and whatevername you want to call it.
(53:00):
Every religion has a different name.
I believe that there is order to thisuniverse and in a very magical way.
And our life has that order.
Sometimes we cannot see it, right?
And sometimes I'm witnessing mylife and vis a vis life of others.
And, uh, there is a magic.
(53:22):
And, and for me, it's alwaysbeen that, that force, that God,
the higher power, whatever youcall it, is always guiding you.
Life's purpose Is to, to, you know,to help you to grow and evolve.
And I have, and I think when I havegiven myself that context and belief
(53:49):
that, you know, everything andanything that's happening in my life.
Is for my good and is for my evolution andis, is teaching me something, you know,
like I've put myself as a student and lifeas a teacher, it, then every experience
(54:10):
that I go through is just an experiencethat is evolving me to the next level.
And it is my level.
It's not the world's level.
Right.
It's not like, you know, the worldtells you, Oh, you know, when you
reach this level, no, because then youare, then you are away from all that.
Right.
Yes.
It's not that I don't want tobe appreciated in the world.
(54:32):
And, you know, I don't wantto be, yes, I want all that.
But I think just natural relying onyourself and how you view yourself,
then how the world views you.
And I think once we start thisjourney with our own self.
With the, like for me, like withthe belief in the higher power that
(54:53):
it's always evolving me to becomebetter version of myself, then
what's happening externally in theworld is a different game, right?
It, it, it affects me sometimes, but it'snot something where I get stuck for a
long time because I'm running my own race.
(55:14):
You know, I'm running my race with mywho I was yesterday to who I am today
and who I intend to become in the future.
And I think that's, that'ssomething that keeps me going.
That is something that keeps me going.
And I do want to admit that thereare temporary moments where you will,
like, I compare myself with others andI can be in that, um, in that lane.
(55:39):
And, and it's only that.
I have to catch myself whatI'm doing to myself, right?
So I think Because I work on my awarenessall the time, I'm busy working on it.
I'm able to catch myselfquickly as the time is passing.
I'm able to catch myself quickly.
(56:01):
So if earlier I was in that trap formonths, you know, then it becomes weeks
and it's days and now it's a few moments.
And I'm like, Hey, you know, maybeI'm feeling jealous of this person.
And then I say, I.
Pointed to myself, Hey,I'm jealous of this person.
Then I just tell myself, stop.
That person's journey is different.
(56:23):
So is mine.
And I tell God, I pray to you.
I don't want to compare my life withthat person because I do not know what is
happening in that person's life, you know,because what, what gets painted outside
is not what people are going through.
And I have had experiences where peoplepaint this live in front of you, because
we live in the world of social media,but they could be going to, and I, I,
(56:49):
I have understood that with so manyclose relationships and friends, but
now I'm like, don't need to compare.
We all are running our own race and,um, and with the belief that, you know,
this race is to make us better versionsof us, better version of ourselves.
And that's about it.
(57:11):
So I, I remind myself.
I remind myself that often.
I hope you enjoy that episode.
I really love what she said in the endabout comparing ourselves to others.
In the Chinese culture, we havea saying rén bǐ rén , qì sǐ rén.
(57:34):
and what that means is constantlycomparing oneself to others.
will.
Only make one angry.
It's a Chinese proverb.
And when you look at the world,Around us, the social media
ads and the advertisement.
The underlying message isalways if you have this, or if
(57:54):
you do that, if you wear this.
You have this espresso machineor if you can afford X, Y, Z.
You will be better.
You will be more loved.
You'll feel better.
But.
Constantly comparing.
Yourself to other people.
I think of it as a gamethat you will never win.
(58:18):
Because when do you stop?
Self-love self-worthneeds to come from within.
So my invitation for you this weekis to notice, be mindful of all the
ways you compare yourself to others.
And then remind yourself that.
(58:39):
You have more than enough.
Have a great week.
And be good to yourself.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
(58:59):
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca.
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
(59:20):
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
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