March 3, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of Curiosity at Work, Dr. Julie Pham interviews Melodie Reynolds, founder and CEO of Elate Beauty, about how curiosity fuels innovation in the beauty industry. Melodie shares her journey from making lipstick in her basement to leading a globally recognized sustainable beauty brand. She discusses the challenges of scaling a business, transitioning to a remote team, and fostering a workplace culture where curiosity drives innovation. Tune in to learn how Melodie is redefining beauty with sustainability, conscious capitalism, and fearless leadership.
Connect with Dr. Julie Pham:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliepham2/
- Website: https://curiositybased.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/juliephamphd/
Connect with Melodie Reynolds:
- Company Instagram: http://instagram.com/elatecosmetics
- Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/melodieelated
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/melodie-reynolds-58bb4b30/
#MelodieReynolds #ElateBeauty #CuriosityAtWork #SustainableBeauty #CleanBeauty #ConsciousCapitalism #Leadership #Innovation #WomenInBusiness #Bcorp #EcoFriendlyPackaging #FearlessLeadership
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
I'm Dr. Julie Pham, founder of CuriosityBased.
We help people practice curiosity in the world, starting in the workplace, because that is where we spend most of our waking hours.
Curiosity as a practice boils down to self-awareness, relationship building, and clear communication.
So join us as we interview leaders to see how they use curiosity at work.
Hi, welcome.
(00:24):
I'm Julie Pham.
This is the Curiosity at Work podcast.
Today, we get to chat with Melodie Reynolds, who is the CEO and founder of Elate Beauty.
Welcome, Melodie.
Oh, thank you so much, Julie.
Thanks for having me on.
Yes.
Melodie, I'm excited because you are our first guest outside of the U.S. I know you're based in Victoria, so welcome.
(00:47):
And I know that you founded this company in 2014, Elate Beauty.
This is a vegan, cruelty-free, eco-conscious beauty company.
And could you just tell us a bit about it, about what you do and who works with you?
Yeah.
So I've been in the beauty industry for 25 years, and I recognize that there was a serious gap in creating products that from end to end had ethics and sustainability in mind.
(01:20):
So when you think about a lipstick product or a foundation product, if those are things that you use, or even toothpaste, let's use that as an example, because that is ubiquitous.
It comes in a plastic tube, and there hasn't really been any thought about what happens to that plastic tube at the end of its life, which is why we have millions and millions and millions of plastic tubes in our landfills.
(01:44):
So the same goes for cosmetics.
There's over 120 billion plastic packages made for the industry every single year.
And I knew because of my experience in the industry and my curiosity about why we do things the way that we do them when we know that there is a better way to do it.
And so that was why I founded my company, was to create a really high-performing product that would bring joy to you when you used it, but that didn't leave any waste behind at the end.
(02:12):
And so when you started your company, it was you and how many people, and how many people do you have now?
And what are all the different functions?
That's a really fun story.
So I started the company myself in my basement, making lipstick in my kitchen.
And we actually grew to an 8,000-square-foot production and fulfillment facility here on Vancouver Island, and I had 27 employees.
(02:35):
And many of those functions were making products.
I do the R&D, and then of course I have chemists that worked with me.
We had a production team that made products.
We had a fulfillment team that actually boxed those products up and shipped them out.
And then we had all the other functions of a team, sales, marketing, all of those things that you need to brand and create a product.
(02:58):
We also had a small engineering team that worked with us for creating packaging.
However, very recently, as in last year, we decided to outsource many of our functions.
Running a warehouse yourself as an independent business is quite a task.
And so we actually now, I employ a separate warehouse, a separate production facility, and I internally have five employees.
(03:23):
And so what we focus on now is, again, the R&D and discovery part of product creation, package creation, discovery of new materials.
We have a sales team, we have a marketing team, and then we actually have what we call our community outreach team, and they handle things like customer support and helping us out with events.
And are you still then located in that same space on Vancouver Island?
(03:45):
No.
So we all work remotely.
And so I have myself and one employee here on Vancouver Island, and we actually have a small location that we work out of together.
Then I have employees in Vancouver, Toronto, and sort of the other outlying areas in Ontario.
And we do have a couple of contractors that work in the States as well.
(04:08):
But we're really a fully remote team.
And that's a really interesting way to work when you go from having 27 people in person in one building, to then having people kind of scattered.
And so it's really interesting, the differences that we've had that we've noticed in how we collaborate together.
Actually, what are some of those big changes?
(04:31):
Because this was pretty recent for you then to go from running all of that in house, to now being more of the innovation center and then with different contractors to carry out those different parts.
What is really interesting to me is that when you are in person, the collaborative ideas that can happen around a table, they feel very organic, you know, because everyone's kind of putting up post-it notes on a wall and shouting things out.
(05:02):
And I've always been a very curious person.
That's actually what drives me, is asking why, or why do we do that?
How can we do it better?
How can we do it differently?
And now that we're fully remote, we just have to try a little bit harder to have that same magic happen, I find.
(05:22):
It's difficult on Zoom because you're not in person, it's hard to sort of shout over each other on a camera.
But we do have a once a year in person, and that's when we do a lot of brainstorming.
And I'm a big believer in asking those questions and sort of waiting for the answers to come in, you know, before we all form our opinions.
And I think that that is something that is really important.
(05:46):
The key difference that I've noticed though, is one of the issues that I did find, you know, trying to foster a sense of curiosity with such a big team, was that for certain individuals, there was some fear behind sharing their ideas with the group.
And fear is the enemy of curiosity, right?
You can't be afraid to ask the questions.
(06:07):
Otherwise, you're not going to get different answers than we currently have.
And so that is something that I've noticed with a smaller team.
And you know, with a more remote work environment, when we're trying to solve a problem, or we're trying to create something new, I send out all the things that they might need or want ahead of time so they can think about it.
And then when we come to the table, we still have that sort of off the cuff idea generating, but it's just a little bit more, we remove that barrier of fear, because they've kind of had time to think about it and write things down.
(06:40):
I'm a big fan of giving people prep work and giving people time to process before you come to the table and have those discussions.
And it's interesting in my facilitation work, the rule is the bigger the group, the less discussion.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because of that fear that you're talking about.
And just even the hesitation of what will other people think about my ideas.
(07:02):
Melodie, when you were describing the warehouse where people did everything in this one place, I was actually pretty surprised because that must be pretty unusual nowadays for small companies to manufacture everything from A to Z.
Yeah, it absolutely is.
And really, that was what drove my decision was being in this giant space and in this warehouse and with our offices and walking around wondering to myself, is this the best way to do this?
(07:36):
Am I the best person to be running these processes?
Because we kind of make decisions as business owners as necessary.
And I think at that point in my business, what I realized was that I am not the expert at this.
Yes, I've been doing it for 10 years, but I'm not the expert.
(07:57):
And I can even look around and see little inefficiencies and see things that could probably be done better.
And the way that I rationalized it to myself after I'd asked the question and wondered out loud is, I would never represent myself at trial because I am definitely not an expert in the law.
(08:20):
I would hire a lawyer to do that for me.
And I have a lawyer and he is great.
And so when I was being curious about the choices that I've made to have this giant facility and to be trying to run it myself, the biggest answer that I got back was, I'm definitely not the expert at this.
(08:42):
And I could probably outsource this to someone who would do it better, more efficiently, and be able to employ more people in a better way.
Because part of building up a business like that and having that many employees is we were growing so quickly.
It was almost like off the cuff.
We're like, oh, yeah, you're in this department now.
And oh, I guess you're a manager now.
And so I really had to pull myself in and ask that hard question of, did I make the right choice doing it this way all these years?
(09:08):
And then kind of get over my own ego, because we have that.
Like, I made this choice 10 years ago.
I've been doing it this way for 10 years, so it must be right.
I kind of get over that hump of, actually, I don't think this is the best way to do this.
And so that was what ultimately led us to the decision to outsource.
Melodie, that must have required so much inward curiosity and also courage, because your employees are people you have relationships with.
(09:33):
And so it must have been really hard to tell them that you're making this change.
It was.
And I think it was hard only because, yes, we think about the people that work with us.
And you become close.
You understand how their lives are.
And you don't want to be the person who is potentially taking their job away.
(09:55):
And so when I first started asking these questions about how we would be able to continue doing business into the future, that was the number one thing that I had to shore up and think about the most is, does it make sense to continue doing business this way simply because I want to continue employing people?
(10:20):
And really didn't.
And the reason is because I had fantastic people.
My team were incredible humans, but none of them were experts at what they were doing.
And I think that that was the biggest indicator to me, is that every meeting that I had with groups and individuals as I was gathering evidence and as I was thinking about this decision, there wasn't a single person that said, oh, no, that means I'm going to lose my job.
(10:49):
Not one.
Every single person would sit back and go, yeah, you're probably right.
Or, yeah, I hadn't thought about that before, but it would be better to do it this way.
And so it was really freeing to have, not to have people say, oh, good, I'm going to lose my job, but to have people understand that the way that we were running the business wasn't sustainable to move it into the future.
(11:16):
And so, you know, it did take, it was a longer process of sort of eliminating certain positions and then moving people around.
And in the end, I'm really proud of how it played out, because I don't think there was a single person who felt that they were eliminated because of this change.
(11:38):
It was almost like it was natural for them to move on to something new.
Melodie, that's a great example of practicing curiosity when it is hard, because there are peoples, what you think might be their livelihood, oh, my gosh, they're going to lose their job.
And yet, actually, when you bring up the tough conversations, you find, oh, they're reacting in ways that I didn't expect.
(12:02):
And yet, how often do we hold ourselves back from even engaging in certain conversations, because we're afraid of how people will react?
Absolutely.
I think that's something we do a lot as leaders, because no one likes conflict, right?
No one likes to be the bearer of bad news.
(12:23):
No one likes to feel like they're the bad guy.
And so we do sometimes avoid conversations that ultimately, with the right care, can be really positive at the end.
And I can imagine that conversation is something that a lot of people in small manufacturing, they have to confront too, that they're also saying, is this the best way for us to be running our business?
(12:49):
Or should we be outsourcing it and giving this work to people who are experts at that?
And I think it's not just the expertise, it's the efficiency, right?
Because for us, sustainability is one of our core ideals.
It's our core value within our company.
(13:09):
We want to lead the way and blaze the trail for the beauty industry in terms of innovation and environmental protections and making sure that we're doing things as well as we possibly can.
And so when you look at more efficient operations, they are more sustainable.
They use less water, they create less waste.
And so it really makes a lot more sense to think about how you're doing things day to day from that value lens.
(13:35):
Let's talk about practicing curiosity among your staff now.
And you mentioned that you come together, that you send them information ahead of time so that they can think about it, have time to process.
Is there any other tips that you would give in terms of how you foster curiosity now, especially on this team that is remote, that is creative?
(13:58):
I mean, what do people need to be creative actually in the beauty industry and curious?
I think this is such an interesting question because what do people need to be creative?
What do people need to be curious?
And I think regardless of the industry, the answer is always an absence of fear.
(14:23):
People don't want to feel that they're being judged for their creativity.
And within the beauty industry, we do work with the core of our team are actually makeup artists by background.
Many of them are also visual artists, which is really interesting.
We do work with a lot of very creative people.
(14:44):
And for them, what I always try to create and foster is just a sense of there's no judgment here.
I always say there's no bad ideas.
And even if you think your idea is bad, I still want to hear it.
In fact, you have a responsibility to tell me all of your bad ideas first.
(15:08):
That's what I want.
Every idea you think is bad, I want that one first.
And part of that is just an exercise to say, I wrote this thing down and I'm kind of embarrassed about it and to actually celebrate that because I often find that when we're going through creativity exercises as a team, what someone thought was their bad idea ends up being the seed that grows the plant that is the good idea.
(15:37):
And so it's really about removing that fear of judgment and creating a space where there's freedom to express yourself.
And I think that's really where the true creativity comes in.
And in order to do that, we have to be curious with ourselves as well.
(15:58):
What makes me afraid to say something in a group?
What makes me think this idea is bad?
And so we do a lot of leadership work in addition to brainstorming work.
And I think that that's an important piece.
There's self-exploration, and that is what helps you with being able to be brave and be courageous and say these quote unquote bad ideas out loud.
(16:22):
And so even that invitation, share your bad idea, it could become a brilliant idea or just, hey, this is just a warm-up idea.
And there weren't that many expectations around that idea to begin with.
So it's just we're starting that conversation.
You said that you have a lot of makeup artists on the team.
I know you started as a makeup artist yourself.
And I always think of makeup artists as having perfection in mind.
(16:46):
Is that true or not?
Because I mean, when I flip through a magazine or watch a movie, everything just looks so perfect.
That's really interesting that you say that because we have a couple of sayings here.
First of all, I call it the disease of perfection, this idea that everything needs to be perfect.
(17:10):
And also, perfect is the enemy of done.
And we look at that not only from a lens of creativity.
As a makeup artist, we want things to be beautiful.
And beautiful things are never perfect.
And I think for me, from a sustainability perspective, that is actually what is driving me, is the idea that we think one day we will arrive at this place where everything is in perfect harmony.
(17:37):
I don't necessarily believe that.
I think that sustainability and creating a brighter future isn't a destination.
It's the journey.
And so we call it the perfectly imperfect journey.
Because everything that we do today is leading us towards a brighter future.
(17:58):
But we won't actually know that we're there until we look back and see how far we've come.
And if you don't start, if you don't start with something that's better than what exists now, it maybe isn't exactly how you want it to be.
But if you don't start, then you'll never get to where it's exactly where you want it to be.
And so we always keep those things in mind.
(18:20):
And it's something that I'm really practicing in my daily life as well as in my business life.
And that is that we need to strive for excellence, but remember that perfection is really a construct that doesn't serve curiosity or creativity or sustainability.
(18:41):
Melodie, since you started this in your basement, formulating the lipsticks yourself, could you give an example of that thing that you learned in the beginning, that you did in the beginning, and then you totally don't do it anymore because you were, you realized that it didn't fit the values of sustainability or for whatever reasons?
Yeah, I think there are so many, there are so many things along the sustainability journey that can go wrong because of perceived notions, because of the idea that, you know, I can research anything on the internet.
(19:23):
And I think one of the key things that comes to mind is the debate over plastic.
It's such a huge thing in the beauty industry.
And so we don't use plastic packaging.
We minimize plastic as much as possible.
And there were many years when I was really outspoken about the evils of plastic.
(19:46):
And I'm still the person at the party who will tell everyone about, you know, microplastics in our waterways, thanks to polyester clothing and things like that.
I'm very popular.
But I, you know, my tack now is more, plastic is actually miraculous.
(20:07):
There are so many humans that wouldn't be alive without plastic, right?
We use plastic in medical devices.
We use plastic for sanitary purposes.
Again, as makeup artists, when we're putting makeup on other people, there are some things we need to use that are plastic simply because they're safer.
And so when I look at that particular material through my lens today, knowing what I know now, I don't have as much of a staunch, like no plastic at all.
(20:35):
I have more of a everything that we've ever made out of plastic still exists today.
How can we repurpose that to make sure that it doesn't end up sitting in a landfill being useless?
Because plastic in the landfill is useless.
It doesn't actually degrade into anything useful, but if we can repurpose it without creating microplastics, then we actually don't need to make new plastic.
(21:02):
And so it's just in those moments of realizing, Ooh, I used to think this and now I've evolved.
And now I think this, it doesn't mean that what I think now is the absolute right thing.
Who knows in 10 years, I may go back to saying plastic is the enemy, but I think it's all about asking ourselves those questions.
(21:22):
Why do I think this and how is it serving me?
And is there a tool or a piece of research or a white paper or an expert that I can speak to who is potentially going to help me see this in a different way that is more useful for the world?
So what I hear you saying from the aspect of your business that's a sustainability business is purity can get in the way of curiosity.
(21:49):
This pursuit for purity of, Oh, all fill in the blank is bad.
And yet, what about all of the different exceptions?
And so thank you for sharing that example.
Yeah.
My husband always says he's a Star Wars fan that, you know, don't be a Sith Lord because they speak in absolutes.
(22:10):
And I really like that.
It's a good reminder.
Like, you know, nothing is ever absolutely this or absolutely this.
There's so much in between that needs to be considered.
And that's where curiosity is really helpful.
So next question, Melodie, you went from having over 25 employees to having five that are remote.
(22:31):
And you said that you're starting to grow again.
And so my next question is, after going through these big shifts, how do you recruit for curiosity now, especially you're not going to see them every day.
You might actually just also be doing the interviews remotely.
How do you look for curiosity?
(22:53):
I love this question so much because it lets me tell a story that is so close to my heart.
And I might get emotional, but I'll try not to because I truly am emotional about people that are curious and people that, you know, have that like they wear it on their sleeve.
(23:13):
They're just they're so curious about the world.
And I just find that so incredibly charming and uplifting.
And so it was when I was hiring an engineer to come and work on our product project.
I'll call it was a top secret project.
We were reinventing a new type of makeup compact.
(23:35):
And my husband is actually an engineer, but he was otherwise engaged.
He is an engineer here in the Canadian Navy and helps manage submarine design and things like that.
So unfortunately, he couldn't come work for me.
So I had to hire an engineer.
I'd never hired an engineer before.
I'd hired sales and operations people, financial people.
(23:56):
I'd never had to hire an engineer before.
And so I turned to my husband and I said, what do I need to look for in this person?
And he said, well, you're going to get a lot of people that come in and talk about engineering in a way that might make you feel like you don't understand what they're saying.
And he goes, those are not the people you want.
And I said, OK.
(24:17):
And he said, you want to look for someone who really likes making things, because that's at the heart of engineering.
That's what you're doing.
You're making things.
And so for you, what you want is someone that's excited about making things.
And I was like, OK, well, that's some good direction.
So I went through all of these interviews.
Some of them were in person and some of them were via Zoom.
(24:41):
And I had a Zoom interview pop up and it was a young man sitting in front of me.
And he had all of these little trinkets on his desk, which I didn't comment on.
We went through all the regular interview questions.
And then we kind of got to the end and he asked me questions and then we were, OK, thank you very much.
(25:05):
This is a great conversation.
And then I said, can you tell me about what's on your desk?
And he looked a little surprised for a minute.
I kind of thought that maybe he had not had time to clear his desk off before he got on the interview.
So he paused for a minute and then went, actually, yeah, can I show you this?
(25:27):
And it was these little jewelry boxes that he had made with his 3D printer that he had purchased that he had made for his sisters.
So in this very short five minute conversation that wasn't
about the interview at all, I learned he had four sisters, that he loved making things for them,
that they were always asking him to make things for them, that he bought himself with his own money
(25:51):
a really nice 3D printer, and that he was using that 3D printer not only to make things for his
sister, but also to iterate ideas that he had for different little engineering projects.
And so that's who I hired, because not only was it the fact that he'd done all these things on his own very recently after graduating from engineering program in university, but that he was curious enough to go out and spend his own money on a new type of machine.
(26:21):
And he was excited enough about making things that he was doing it.
So his entire desk was covered in little widgets and gadgets and things like that.
The fact that he had sisters that he did things for was obviously just a great benefit.
But that moment, and then my experience after that working with him, completely changed the way that I interview and hire people.
(26:46):
So now instead of like a set of questions, or looking for them to ask me questions, everyone's going to ask you questions in an interview.
That's not necessarily a demonstration of curiosity.
What I want to know is what do you do for fun?
What do you do outside of work?
And in those little tidbits, you can gather a picture about someone who is curious about life, curious about themselves, and those are the things that make for really good and strong employees.
(27:19):
And I can also see the benefit of doing the interview remotely, if you can get some insight into their into their world, too, because if he had come to your office, you wouldn't have been able to see that and to be able to comment on that.
That's such a that's such a good point.
You're right.
I don't think he would have brought a little trinket into his interview.
So it was really interesting to have that be how we discovered that about him.
(27:44):
And actually, I'm just I'm curious, because you'll probably be the only beauty industry executive I talked to.
What are some characteristics of people who are attracted to working in the beauty industry?
That is such a good question.
You know, as I mentioned, we have makeup artists that work with us because we're a makeup company.
So we make the product that they want to use.
(28:05):
But ultimately, many of them don't work for us in that capacity.
They work for us in things like education, marketing sales, because they love creating something new.
They love the communication and the storytelling of why we use beauty products.
And they, of course, love our values that we're trying to create a brighter future for beauty with less waste.
(28:28):
And when it comes to, you know, our operations side, our finance teams and our operational teams and this engineering team, what I really found was that, again, it was people that were attracted to our values and attracted to our mission.
So we are a beauty company.
We make cosmetics.
But at the end of the day, we're trying to reinvent a century old industry by asking the question, why have we done things exactly the same since this product was invented?
(28:55):
Why is the package look exactly the same?
Why are the ingredients the same when we know there are better, safer alternatives for people and the planet?
And so I really find that we do tend to attract people that are interested in making change, in living their values through their everyday work, and who are curious about how we can make the world a better place.
(29:19):
And I can also imagine that people who are also really attracted to the story, the mission, because Melodie, you do a really great job on social media telling your story and about sharing the mission of Alate, which, by the way, I just have to share.
I love my brow pencil.
It's so easy to use, which is important because I don't use that much makeup.
(29:40):
So last question is, what is inspiring curiosity for you in your own non-work world?
I mean, I'm boring in terms of curiosity.
I read.
I'm a huge reader.
I actually last year read 72 books.
I'm all about it.
(30:01):
But that's not exactly what's inspiring curiosity in me all the time.
I just like to read.
Right now, I am actually in a band.
Yes.
Yeah.
So I was in a ukulele band years ago.
And then I kind of fell off of playing music with other people.
(30:22):
I play by myself.
But there's something really different about playing and singing in a group that really sparks so much excitement and adrenaline and all of those wonderful happy feelings and allows me to be curious about what I'm capable of.
(30:42):
Can I learn this song?
Can I stand up in front of people and sing this song?
Can I be a part of this group and play together and suggest new things?
And I really find it inspiring to see the other musicians that I play with as they grow and learn new skills and try them out.
(31:02):
And I think there's something to be said about iteration.
And with music, you have to do it over and over and over and over and over.
And you're making little tweaks each time until you get to the end product that you're really happy with.
And so I would say that yeah, my band is really inspiring me to be curious right now, not only about myself, but but about other humans and how we interact together to create joy.
(31:31):
Melodie, thank you so much for sharing that.
So ukulele band singing source of definitely that's a first hearing that on our podcast.
So Melodie, if people want to get in touch with you, how do they do so?
Aside from following Melodie on Instagram, you can share your Instagram handle and anything else you want to share of how people can get in touch with you?
(31:53):
Yeah, please do.
You can follow it late on Instagram.
We're @elatecosmetics.
You can also follow me.
I'm @melodieelated on Instagram.
I'm also on LinkedIn.
And my Instagram is really just about being a beauty brand founder.
And I share things about my life as well.
You might see some ukulele on there.
Our Elate Beauty account is about our products about our sustainability mission.
(32:16):
We're a B Corp certified company.
So we do talk about that a lot.
And then on LinkedIn, I share just musings and interesting articles that I find about trying to innovate in the beauty space, and trying to be innovative and creative as business leaders as well.
So we can leave the world a little bit better than we found it.
Melodie, thank you so much for sharing your insights and wisdom today.
(32:39):
I know that the listeners got a lot of value out of it.
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.
And remember listeners practice curiosity in the world.
I'm Dr. Julie Pham, founder of CuriosityBased.
We help people practice curiosity in the world, starting in the workplace, because that is where we spend most of our waking hours.
Curiosity as a practice boils down to self-awareness, relationship building, and clear communication.
So join us as we interview leaders to see how they use curiosity at work.
Hi, welcome.
(00:24):
I'm Julie Pham.
This is the Curiosity at Work podcast.
Today, we get to chat with Melodie Reynolds, who is the CEO and founder of Elate Beauty.
Welcome, Melodie.
Oh, thank you so much, Julie.
Thanks for having me on.
Yes.
Melodie, I'm excited because you are our first guest outside of the U.S. I know you're based in Victoria, so welcome.
(00:47):
And I know that you founded this company in 2014, Elate Beauty.
This is a vegan, cruelty-free, eco-conscious beauty company.
And could you just tell us a bit about it, about what you do and who works with you?
Yeah.
So I've been in the beauty industry for 25 years, and I recognize that there was a serious gap in creating products that from end to end had ethics and sustainability in mind.
(01:20):
So when you think about a lipstick product or a foundation product, if those are things that you use, or even toothpaste, let's use that as an example, because that is ubiquitous.
It comes in a plastic tube, and there hasn't really been any thought about what happens to that plastic tube at the end of its life, which is why we have millions and millions and millions of plastic tubes in our landfills.
(01:44):
So the same goes for cosmetics.
There's over 120 billion plastic packages made for the industry every single year.
And I knew because of my experience in the industry and my curiosity about why we do things the way that we do them when we know that there is a better way to do it.
And so that was why I founded my company, was to create a really high-performing product that would bring joy to you when you used it, but that didn't leave any waste behind at the end.
(02:12):
And so when you started your company, it was you and how many people, and how many people do you have now?
And what are all the different functions?
That's a really fun story.
So I started the company myself in my basement, making lipstick in my kitchen.
And we actually grew to an 8,000-square-foot production and fulfillment facility here on Vancouver Island, and I had 27 employees.
(02:35):
And many of those functions were making products.
I do the R&D, and then of course I have chemists that worked with me.
We had a production team that made products.
We had a fulfillment team that actually boxed those products up and shipped them out.
And then we had all the other functions of a team, sales, marketing, all of those things that you need to brand and create a product.
(02:58):
We also had a small engineering team that worked with us for creating packaging.
However, very recently, as in last year, we decided to outsource many of our functions.
Running a warehouse yourself as an independent business is quite a task.
And so we actually now, I employ a separate warehouse, a separate production facility, and I internally have five employees.
(03:23):
And so what we focus on now is, again, the R&D and discovery part of product creation, package creation, discovery of new materials.
We have a sales team, we have a marketing team, and then we actually have what we call our community outreach team, and they handle things like customer support and helping us out with events.
And are you still then located in that same space on Vancouver Island?
(03:45):
No.
So we all work remotely.
And so I have myself and one employee here on Vancouver Island, and we actually have a small location that we work out of together.
Then I have employees in Vancouver, Toronto, and sort of the other outlying areas in Ontario.
And we do have a couple of contractors that work in the States as well.
(04:08):
But we're really a fully remote team.
And that's a really interesting way to work when you go from having 27 people in person in one building, to then having people kind of scattered.
And so it's really interesting, the differences that we've had that we've noticed in how we collaborate together.
Actually, what are some of those big changes?
(04:31):
Because this was pretty recent for you then to go from running all of that in house, to now being more of the innovation center and then with different contractors to carry out those different parts.
What is really interesting to me is that when you are in person, the collaborative ideas that can happen around a table, they feel very organic, you know, because everyone's kind of putting up post-it notes on a wall and shouting things out.
(05:02):
And I've always been a very curious person.
That's actually what drives me, is asking why, or why do we do that?
How can we do it better?
How can we do it differently?
And now that we're fully remote, we just have to try a little bit harder to have that same magic happen, I find.
(05:22):
It's difficult on Zoom because you're not in person, it's hard to sort of shout over each other on a camera.
But we do have a once a year in person, and that's when we do a lot of brainstorming.
And I'm a big believer in asking those questions and sort of waiting for the answers to come in, you know, before we all form our opinions.
And I think that that is something that is really important.
(05:46):
The key difference that I've noticed though, is one of the issues that I did find, you know, trying to foster a sense of curiosity with such a big team, was that for certain individuals, there was some fear behind sharing their ideas with the group.
And fear is the enemy of curiosity, right?
You can't be afraid to ask the questions.
(06:07):
Otherwise, you're not going to get different answers than we currently have.
And so that is something that I've noticed with a smaller team.
And you know, with a more remote work environment, when we're trying to solve a problem, or we're trying to create something new, I send out all the things that they might need or want ahead of time so they can think about it.
And then when we come to the table, we still have that sort of off the cuff idea generating, but it's just a little bit more, we remove that barrier of fear, because they've kind of had time to think about it and write things down.
(06:40):
I'm a big fan of giving people prep work and giving people time to process before you come to the table and have those discussions.
And it's interesting in my facilitation work, the rule is the bigger the group, the less discussion.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because of that fear that you're talking about.
And just even the hesitation of what will other people think about my ideas.
(07:02):
Melodie, when you were describing the warehouse where people did everything in this one place, I was actually pretty surprised because that must be pretty unusual nowadays for small companies to manufacture everything from A to Z.
Yeah, it absolutely is.
And really, that was what drove my decision was being in this giant space and in this warehouse and with our offices and walking around wondering to myself, is this the best way to do this?
(07:36):
Am I the best person to be running these processes?
Because we kind of make decisions as business owners as necessary.
And I think at that point in my business, what I realized was that I am not the expert at this.
Yes, I've been doing it for 10 years, but I'm not the expert.
(07:57):
And I can even look around and see little inefficiencies and see things that could probably be done better.
And the way that I rationalized it to myself after I'd asked the question and wondered out loud is, I would never represent myself at trial because I am definitely not an expert in the law.
(08:20):
I would hire a lawyer to do that for me.
And I have a lawyer and he is great.
And so when I was being curious about the choices that I've made to have this giant facility and to be trying to run it myself, the biggest answer that I got back was, I'm definitely not the expert at this.
(08:42):
And I could probably outsource this to someone who would do it better, more efficiently, and be able to employ more people in a better way.
Because part of building up a business like that and having that many employees is we were growing so quickly.
It was almost like off the cuff.
We're like, oh, yeah, you're in this department now.
And oh, I guess you're a manager now.
And so I really had to pull myself in and ask that hard question of, did I make the right choice doing it this way all these years?
(09:08):
And then kind of get over my own ego, because we have that.
Like, I made this choice 10 years ago.
I've been doing it this way for 10 years, so it must be right.
I kind of get over that hump of, actually, I don't think this is the best way to do this.
And so that was what ultimately led us to the decision to outsource.
Melodie, that must have required so much inward curiosity and also courage, because your employees are people you have relationships with.
(09:33):
And so it must have been really hard to tell them that you're making this change.
It was.
And I think it was hard only because, yes, we think about the people that work with us.
And you become close.
You understand how their lives are.
And you don't want to be the person who is potentially taking their job away.
(09:55):
And so when I first started asking these questions about how we would be able to continue doing business into the future, that was the number one thing that I had to shore up and think about the most is, does it make sense to continue doing business this way simply because I want to continue employing people?
(10:20):
And really didn't.
And the reason is because I had fantastic people.
My team were incredible humans, but none of them were experts at what they were doing.
And I think that that was the biggest indicator to me, is that every meeting that I had with groups and individuals as I was gathering evidence and as I was thinking about this decision, there wasn't a single person that said, oh, no, that means I'm going to lose my job.
(10:49):
Not one.
Every single person would sit back and go, yeah, you're probably right.
Or, yeah, I hadn't thought about that before, but it would be better to do it this way.
And so it was really freeing to have, not to have people say, oh, good, I'm going to lose my job, but to have people understand that the way that we were running the business wasn't sustainable to move it into the future.
(11:16):
And so, you know, it did take, it was a longer process of sort of eliminating certain positions and then moving people around.
And in the end, I'm really proud of how it played out, because I don't think there was a single person who felt that they were eliminated because of this change.
(11:38):
It was almost like it was natural for them to move on to something new.
Melodie, that's a great example of practicing curiosity when it is hard, because there are peoples, what you think might be their livelihood, oh, my gosh, they're going to lose their job.
And yet, actually, when you bring up the tough conversations, you find, oh, they're reacting in ways that I didn't expect.
(12:02):
And yet, how often do we hold ourselves back from even engaging in certain conversations, because we're afraid of how people will react?
Absolutely.
I think that's something we do a lot as leaders, because no one likes conflict, right?
No one likes to be the bearer of bad news.
(12:23):
No one likes to feel like they're the bad guy.
And so we do sometimes avoid conversations that ultimately, with the right care, can be really positive at the end.
And I can imagine that conversation is something that a lot of people in small manufacturing, they have to confront too, that they're also saying, is this the best way for us to be running our business?
(12:49):
Or should we be outsourcing it and giving this work to people who are experts at that?
And I think it's not just the expertise, it's the efficiency, right?
Because for us, sustainability is one of our core ideals.
It's our core value within our company.
(13:09):
We want to lead the way and blaze the trail for the beauty industry in terms of innovation and environmental protections and making sure that we're doing things as well as we possibly can.
And so when you look at more efficient operations, they are more sustainable.
They use less water, they create less waste.
And so it really makes a lot more sense to think about how you're doing things day to day from that value lens.
(13:35):
Let's talk about practicing curiosity among your staff now.
And you mentioned that you come together, that you send them information ahead of time so that they can think about it, have time to process.
Is there any other tips that you would give in terms of how you foster curiosity now, especially on this team that is remote, that is creative?
(13:58):
I mean, what do people need to be creative actually in the beauty industry and curious?
I think this is such an interesting question because what do people need to be creative?
What do people need to be curious?
And I think regardless of the industry, the answer is always an absence of fear.
(14:23):
People don't want to feel that they're being judged for their creativity.
And within the beauty industry, we do work with the core of our team are actually makeup artists by background.
Many of them are also visual artists, which is really interesting.
We do work with a lot of very creative people.
(14:44):
And for them, what I always try to create and foster is just a sense of there's no judgment here.
I always say there's no bad ideas.
And even if you think your idea is bad, I still want to hear it.
In fact, you have a responsibility to tell me all of your bad ideas first.
(15:08):
That's what I want.
Every idea you think is bad, I want that one first.
And part of that is just an exercise to say, I wrote this thing down and I'm kind of embarrassed about it and to actually celebrate that because I often find that when we're going through creativity exercises as a team, what someone thought was their bad idea ends up being the seed that grows the plant that is the good idea.
(15:37):
And so it's really about removing that fear of judgment and creating a space where there's freedom to express yourself.
And I think that's really where the true creativity comes in.
And in order to do that, we have to be curious with ourselves as well.
(15:58):
What makes me afraid to say something in a group?
What makes me think this idea is bad?
And so we do a lot of leadership work in addition to brainstorming work.
And I think that that's an important piece.
There's self-exploration, and that is what helps you with being able to be brave and be courageous and say these quote unquote bad ideas out loud.
(16:22):
And so even that invitation, share your bad idea, it could become a brilliant idea or just, hey, this is just a warm-up idea.
And there weren't that many expectations around that idea to begin with.
So it's just we're starting that conversation.
You said that you have a lot of makeup artists on the team.
I know you started as a makeup artist yourself.
And I always think of makeup artists as having perfection in mind.
(16:46):
Is that true or not?
Because I mean, when I flip through a magazine or watch a movie, everything just looks so perfect.
That's really interesting that you say that because we have a couple of sayings here.
First of all, I call it the disease of perfection, this idea that everything needs to be perfect.
(17:10):
And also, perfect is the enemy of done.
And we look at that not only from a lens of creativity.
As a makeup artist, we want things to be beautiful.
And beautiful things are never perfect.
And I think for me, from a sustainability perspective, that is actually what is driving me, is the idea that we think one day we will arrive at this place where everything is in perfect harmony.
(17:37):
I don't necessarily believe that.
I think that sustainability and creating a brighter future isn't a destination.
It's the journey.
And so we call it the perfectly imperfect journey.
Because everything that we do today is leading us towards a brighter future.
(17:58):
But we won't actually know that we're there until we look back and see how far we've come.
And if you don't start, if you don't start with something that's better than what exists now, it maybe isn't exactly how you want it to be.
But if you don't start, then you'll never get to where it's exactly where you want it to be.
And so we always keep those things in mind.
(18:20):
And it's something that I'm really practicing in my daily life as well as in my business life.
And that is that we need to strive for excellence, but remember that perfection is really a construct that doesn't serve curiosity or creativity or sustainability.
(18:41):
Melodie, since you started this in your basement, formulating the lipsticks yourself, could you give an example of that thing that you learned in the beginning, that you did in the beginning, and then you totally don't do it anymore because you were, you realized that it didn't fit the values of sustainability or for whatever reasons?
Yeah, I think there are so many, there are so many things along the sustainability journey that can go wrong because of perceived notions, because of the idea that, you know, I can research anything on the internet.
(19:23):
And I think one of the key things that comes to mind is the debate over plastic.
It's such a huge thing in the beauty industry.
And so we don't use plastic packaging.
We minimize plastic as much as possible.
And there were many years when I was really outspoken about the evils of plastic.
(19:46):
And I'm still the person at the party who will tell everyone about, you know, microplastics in our waterways, thanks to polyester clothing and things like that.
I'm very popular.
But I, you know, my tack now is more, plastic is actually miraculous.
(20:07):
There are so many humans that wouldn't be alive without plastic, right?
We use plastic in medical devices.
We use plastic for sanitary purposes.
Again, as makeup artists, when we're putting makeup on other people, there are some things we need to use that are plastic simply because they're safer.
And so when I look at that particular material through my lens today, knowing what I know now, I don't have as much of a staunch, like no plastic at all.
(20:35):
I have more of a everything that we've ever made out of plastic still exists today.
How can we repurpose that to make sure that it doesn't end up sitting in a landfill being useless?
Because plastic in the landfill is useless.
It doesn't actually degrade into anything useful, but if we can repurpose it without creating microplastics, then we actually don't need to make new plastic.
(21:02):
And so it's just in those moments of realizing, Ooh, I used to think this and now I've evolved.
And now I think this, it doesn't mean that what I think now is the absolute right thing.
Who knows in 10 years, I may go back to saying plastic is the enemy, but I think it's all about asking ourselves those questions.
(21:22):
Why do I think this and how is it serving me?
And is there a tool or a piece of research or a white paper or an expert that I can speak to who is potentially going to help me see this in a different way that is more useful for the world?
So what I hear you saying from the aspect of your business that's a sustainability business is purity can get in the way of curiosity.
(21:49):
This pursuit for purity of, Oh, all fill in the blank is bad.
And yet, what about all of the different exceptions?
And so thank you for sharing that example.
Yeah.
My husband always says he's a Star Wars fan that, you know, don't be a Sith Lord because they speak in absolutes.
(22:10):
And I really like that.
It's a good reminder.
Like, you know, nothing is ever absolutely this or absolutely this.
There's so much in between that needs to be considered.
And that's where curiosity is really helpful.
So next question, Melodie, you went from having over 25 employees to having five that are remote.
(22:31):
And you said that you're starting to grow again.
And so my next question is, after going through these big shifts, how do you recruit for curiosity now, especially you're not going to see them every day.
You might actually just also be doing the interviews remotely.
How do you look for curiosity?
(22:53):
I love this question so much because it lets me tell a story that is so close to my heart.
And I might get emotional, but I'll try not to because I truly am emotional about people that are curious and people that, you know, have that like they wear it on their sleeve.
(23:13):
They're just they're so curious about the world.
And I just find that so incredibly charming and uplifting.
And so it was when I was hiring an engineer to come and work on our product project.
I'll call it was a top secret project.
We were reinventing a new type of makeup compact.
(23:35):
And my husband is actually an engineer, but he was otherwise engaged.
He is an engineer here in the Canadian Navy and helps manage submarine design and things like that.
So unfortunately, he couldn't come work for me.
So I had to hire an engineer.
I'd never hired an engineer before.
I'd hired sales and operations people, financial people.
(23:56):
I'd never had to hire an engineer before.
And so I turned to my husband and I said, what do I need to look for in this person?
And he said, well, you're going to get a lot of people that come in and talk about engineering in a way that might make you feel like you don't understand what they're saying.
And he goes, those are not the people you want.
And I said, OK.
(24:17):
And he said, you want to look for someone who really likes making things, because that's at the heart of engineering.
That's what you're doing.
You're making things.
And so for you, what you want is someone that's excited about making things.
And I was like, OK, well, that's some good direction.
So I went through all of these interviews.
Some of them were in person and some of them were via Zoom.
(24:41):
And I had a Zoom interview pop up and it was a young man sitting in front of me.
And he had all of these little trinkets on his desk, which I didn't comment on.
We went through all the regular interview questions.
And then we kind of got to the end and he asked me questions and then we were, OK, thank you very much.
(25:05):
This is a great conversation.
And then I said, can you tell me about what's on your desk?
And he looked a little surprised for a minute.
I kind of thought that maybe he had not had time to clear his desk off before he got on the interview.
So he paused for a minute and then went, actually, yeah, can I show you this?
(25:27):
And it was these little jewelry boxes that he had made with his 3D printer that he had purchased that he had made for his sisters.
So in this very short five minute conversation that wasn't
about the interview at all, I learned he had four sisters, that he loved making things for them,
that they were always asking him to make things for them, that he bought himself with his own money
(25:51):
a really nice 3D printer, and that he was using that 3D printer not only to make things for his
sister, but also to iterate ideas that he had for different little engineering projects.
And so that's who I hired, because not only was it the fact that he'd done all these things on his own very recently after graduating from engineering program in university, but that he was curious enough to go out and spend his own money on a new type of machine.
(26:21):
And he was excited enough about making things that he was doing it.
So his entire desk was covered in little widgets and gadgets and things like that.
The fact that he had sisters that he did things for was obviously just a great benefit.
But that moment, and then my experience after that working with him, completely changed the way that I interview and hire people.
(26:46):
So now instead of like a set of questions, or looking for them to ask me questions, everyone's going to ask you questions in an interview.
That's not necessarily a demonstration of curiosity.
What I want to know is what do you do for fun?
What do you do outside of work?
And in those little tidbits, you can gather a picture about someone who is curious about life, curious about themselves, and those are the things that make for really good and strong employees.
(27:19):
And I can also see the benefit of doing the interview remotely, if you can get some insight into their into their world, too, because if he had come to your office, you wouldn't have been able to see that and to be able to comment on that.
That's such a that's such a good point.
You're right.
I don't think he would have brought a little trinket into his interview.
So it was really interesting to have that be how we discovered that about him.
(27:44):
And actually, I'm just I'm curious, because you'll probably be the only beauty industry executive I talked to.
What are some characteristics of people who are attracted to working in the beauty industry?
That is such a good question.
You know, as I mentioned, we have makeup artists that work with us because we're a makeup company.
So we make the product that they want to use.
(28:05):
But ultimately, many of them don't work for us in that capacity.
They work for us in things like education, marketing sales, because they love creating something new.
They love the communication and the storytelling of why we use beauty products.
And they, of course, love our values that we're trying to create a brighter future for beauty with less waste.
(28:28):
And when it comes to, you know, our operations side, our finance teams and our operational teams and this engineering team, what I really found was that, again, it was people that were attracted to our values and attracted to our mission.
So we are a beauty company.
We make cosmetics.
But at the end of the day, we're trying to reinvent a century old industry by asking the question, why have we done things exactly the same since this product was invented?
(28:55):
Why is the package look exactly the same?
Why are the ingredients the same when we know there are better, safer alternatives for people and the planet?
And so I really find that we do tend to attract people that are interested in making change, in living their values through their everyday work, and who are curious about how we can make the world a better place.
(29:19):
And I can also imagine that people who are also really attracted to the story, the mission, because Melodie, you do a really great job on social media telling your story and about sharing the mission of Alate, which, by the way, I just have to share.
I love my brow pencil.
It's so easy to use, which is important because I don't use that much makeup.
(29:40):
So last question is, what is inspiring curiosity for you in your own non-work world?
I mean, I'm boring in terms of curiosity.
I read.
I'm a huge reader.
I actually last year read 72 books.
I'm all about it.
(30:01):
But that's not exactly what's inspiring curiosity in me all the time.
I just like to read.
Right now, I am actually in a band.
Yes.
Yeah.
So I was in a ukulele band years ago.
And then I kind of fell off of playing music with other people.
(30:22):
I play by myself.
But there's something really different about playing and singing in a group that really sparks so much excitement and adrenaline and all of those wonderful happy feelings and allows me to be curious about what I'm capable of.
(30:42):
Can I learn this song?
Can I stand up in front of people and sing this song?
Can I be a part of this group and play together and suggest new things?
And I really find it inspiring to see the other musicians that I play with as they grow and learn new skills and try them out.
(31:02):
And I think there's something to be said about iteration.
And with music, you have to do it over and over and over and over and over.
And you're making little tweaks each time until you get to the end product that you're really happy with.
And so I would say that yeah, my band is really inspiring me to be curious right now, not only about myself, but but about other humans and how we interact together to create joy.
(31:31):
Melodie, thank you so much for sharing that.
So ukulele band singing source of definitely that's a first hearing that on our podcast.
So Melodie, if people want to get in touch with you, how do they do so?
Aside from following Melodie on Instagram, you can share your Instagram handle and anything else you want to share of how people can get in touch with you?
(31:53):
Yeah, please do.
You can follow it late on Instagram.
We're @elatecosmetics.
You can also follow me.
I'm @melodieelated on Instagram.
I'm also on LinkedIn.
And my Instagram is really just about being a beauty brand founder.
And I share things about my life as well.
You might see some ukulele on there.
Our Elate Beauty account is about our products about our sustainability mission.
(32:16):
We're a B Corp certified company.
So we do talk about that a lot.
And then on LinkedIn, I share just musings and interesting articles that I find about trying to innovate in the beauty space, and trying to be innovative and creative as business leaders as well.
So we can leave the world a little bit better than we found it.
Melodie, thank you so much for sharing your insights and wisdom today.
(32:39):
I know that the listeners got a lot of value out of it.
Oh, thank you so much for having me.
Thank you.
And remember listeners practice curiosity in the world.
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