April 28, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode of Curiosity at Work, Dr. Julie Pham sits down with Ed Ewing, Executive Director of Bike Works, to explore how curiosity drives social justice, leadership, and community impact. Ed shares how Bike Works, a nonprofit bike shop in Seattle, reinvests all its revenue into empowering youth and underserved communities. From launching a mobile bike shop during the pandemic to investing in staff wellness and development, Ed discusses how leading with curiosity has helped him build a culture of transparency, inclusion, and purpose. Tune in to hear how bikes—and bold questions—are transforming lives.
Connect with Dr. Julie Pham:
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/juliepham2/
- Website: https://curiositybased.com/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/juliephamphd/
Connect with Ed Ewing:
- Website: https://bikeworks.org/
- Email: ed@bikeworks.org
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/edward-ewing-07b85824
#EdEwing #BikeWorks #CuriosityAtWork #NonprofitLeadership #SocialJustice #RacialEquity #CommunityEmpowerment #YouthDevelopment #LeadershipWithPurpose #SeattleNonprofits #BikesForChange
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
I'm Dr. Julie Pham, founder of Curiosity Based. We help people practice curiosity in the world,
starting in the workplace, because that is where we spend most of our waking hours. Curiosity
as a practice boils down to self-awareness, relationship building, and clear communication.
So join us as we interview leaders to see how they use curiosity at work. Welcome to
the Curiosity at Work podcast. I'm Julie Pham, and today I get to chat with Ed Ewing,
(00:31):
who is the executive director of BikeWorks, a nonprofit bike shop. Welcome, Ed.
Hi, Julie. Nice meeting you. Thanks for having me.
Yes, Ed, I'm looking forward to this conversation because I know you have over 30 years of experience
with sales and marketing. Most of that was in the for-profit, and then in 2007, you moved
(00:52):
over to the nonprofit space. And BikeWorks is a nonprofit bike shop. That means it's
what? That retail services can actually be nonprofits. I usually think of them as for-profits.
Can you explain what that means?
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to. It's a rather unique business model that we have. We only sell
(01:13):
used bikes and used bike parts. Of course, we have some new product like helmets and
lights and locks and that sort of thing. But the model really is we're a community-based
bike shop, and we also provide additional services like youth programming, adult programming,
lower no-cost bike repair provided, and BikeMobile, which is a mobile bike shop, basically. Then
(01:36):
a big part of our business is recycle, reuse. We receive anywhere from 6,000 to 8,000 donated
bikes per year, and we keep probably 30% of those. That's our yield. And those bikes are
refurbished, and some of those are sold in the bike shop, and some of those are given
away in the community for free. And the bikes we can't use, we work with Seattle Recycling
(01:57):
to make sure that those bikes are recycled, the metal's recycled. And then we also work
with a couple other organizations that refurbish bikes and send them to Africa. So there's
no waste in the work that we do. All the proceeds and the sales and revenue that's generated
through the bike shop, it goes directly back into the organization. And it goes back into
(02:19):
the organization a couple of different ways. Those are salaries of those who are working
in the bike shop. It goes to fuel our youth programs and adult programs. Our youth programs
are offered in a couple of different ways, either embedded year-round in South End schools
like Franklin, Cleveland, Rainier Beach, and South Shore K-8. A lot of those programs that
(02:42):
we offer in the schools are free. And so the bike shop, the revenue generated there
goes to fuel those programs. And then also the revenue generated for the bike shop goes
to fuel our adult programs as well. We offer sliding scale. So if someone can't afford
to pay to have their bike repaired, or they can't afford a new bike, we make sure that
(03:04):
the bike is repaired free of cost, or the person receives a brand new bike, either at
a very low price or free. And then we also, there is a client base in Columbia City and
surrounding areas that can afford to buy a bike. We have a pay it forward price, and
they can pay the market price and then some, and then some. Those proceeds go right back
(03:28):
into the organization, again, to fuel youth programs, adult programs, in-school education,
or to give bikes away for free.
So it sounds like with a non-profit retail model, all the revenue that comes from selling
the product actually then fuels these programs for, in this case, youth, for the community.
(03:51):
I think about Goodwill and how they do that, the revenue that they generate from the sale
of all their items in the shops, that fuels the job training. Are there other non-profit
bike shops in the U.S.? Because this is the first time I've ever heard of this.
Yeah, there actually is quite an extensive network. Here on the West Coast, there's Bike
(04:14):
Works. Then at Tacoma, there's Second Cycle, which is in Tacoma on Emma King Boulevard.
In Everett, there's Shearing Wheels. And in Port Townsend, there's Port Townsend Cyclery.
And we all share a very similar business model. And then also in Portland, there's a community
cycling center. We all share a similar business model, but it's the same premise of only selling
(04:39):
used parts, used bikes in the shop. And those proceeds go right back into the organization
to fuel other programs. We get a lot of donations as well. If somebody wants to buy a bike,
they want to donate on top. And it's very easy to explain to a customer or a donor where their
money is going and how it shows up in the community and how it shows up in our programming.
(05:04):
In a time when a lot of non-profits are being asked to act more like businesses,
actually Bike Works does operate like a business.
Yeah, definitely. We were founded in 1996, based in Columbia City, and we're remaining in Columbia
City. Our business model and our ethos of our work is social justice with a focus on racial equity.
(05:29):
And that's intentional. And we are intentionally serve South End zip codes and South End communities
where that's where the greatest need is. And so that principle and that ethos was started in 96.
And we've stayed focused on that. And actually in 2020, when I joined the organization,
it was right after the murder of George Floyd. We continued to do what we were doing. We didn't
(05:54):
have to deviate or ramp up any diversity, equity, inclusion initiative. It's just what we do. It's
the foundation of our work. And even now, it's just we're more relevant than ever. And that's
very intentional. And we've had discussions about, should we move further South? And that might
happen, but maybe a satellite. But we feel like Columbia City is where we want to stay. The need
(06:21):
is there, and the community that we serve is there as well. So listeners, I just want to clarify
something for you, because Ed keeps talking about Columbia City and South End. And so what that
refers to is just the South End Seattle, which is one of the most racially, ethnically diverse
parts of the country, not just of Seattle, but of the country. So Ed, you joined in August 2020.
(06:43):
This is the middle of the pandemic. Can you just share a bit about the workforce,
the employee base that you started with, and how that changed when you joined?
Certainly. Yeah, this is definitely my dream job. I've been bike racing and around bikes since I was
(07:03):
16, and I grew up in the Midwest. And half of my career, I spent in for-profit. And so I started
a non-profit in 2007 and directed a couple of initiatives that were community-based here
embedded in schools that specifically focused on black and brown youth called the Major Taylor
Project. And when I started the project, it was in two schools. When I left the project,
(07:27):
it was in 18 schools. And so I was in concert with Bike Works the whole time and just did a
lot of collaboration with Bike Works. So to get the call from my former executive director and
saying, hey, would you like to get back into the bike world? As deputy director now, executive
(07:47):
director of Bike Works, it was a dream opportunity for me. The workforce, ironically enough,
the cycling community here in Seattle is big. It's also small. And so the workforce, when I
joined Bike Works, I knew a lot of staff and I collaborated with a lot of the staff over the
past 10, 15 years. So it really felt like coming home, honestly. And the interesting thing about
(08:12):
Bike Works and the mission and the purpose of the organization is so strong and so big. It
attracts like-minded individuals who see the possibility with a bike that it's not just bike
riding. It's an opportunity to build community. It's an opportunity to reach black and brown youth
and black and brown adults in communities differently. And so you have this really strong
(08:36):
bond and connection with staff. And I did and stepped right into that. And so as difficult a
time as 2020 was, and feeling those headwinds still today, it was nice to be shoulder to shoulder
with like-minded individuals who see the possibility of a bike. It's beyond just riding. It's more of
(08:58):
community building. It's actually a form of advocacy. And so a lot of that, a lot of those
staff are still at Bike Works today. We've had, we have several staff members who started as a youth
in Bike Works programs and who have grown up in the programs who are now managers, who are now
coordinators. And some of the staff who were there in 2020 put their time in, so to speak, and now
(09:24):
they're on doing other things, but still in that social justice, race, racial equity vein. So it's
nice to see staff. And I'm by far the oldest in the organization. Let's be honest. This gray hair
is not fake. So it's really cool to see people start their career and their path. And I think
(09:48):
the most rewarding part of my job is to be able to help them in that journey.
Ed, can you share a bit of how many people there were when you started? What their functions were?
Did the functions have to change when the pandemic hit? Yeah, when I started, staff had been,
(10:11):
had gone through a couple layoffs, a couple furloughs. So when I started, there was 12 staff
members. And the interesting thing about how the pandemic affected our business is in two ways. One,
bike sales were going through the roof. So we had bikes that were under $1,000 that retail
(10:32):
establishments through trade and through logistics could not access bikes under $1,000. We had them.
So as busy as the shop was, we were able to deploy some staff into the bike shop to increase
our hours. We were open seven days a week. And also another thing that affected our business is
(10:57):
since school was all remote, our in-school and afterschool program was shut down.
So the youth program staff that deliver that curriculum, we were at a point of like, well,
what do we do with the staff? We don't want to lay anybody off. So we were able to deploy that staff
into our mobile bike shop, the bike mobile. And so the bike mobile was out into the community five
(11:19):
days a week. Again, in the strategically placed in communities that are of great need and able to
provide low cost bike repair, like fixing a change in the inner tube, fixing a flat or a chain,
or no cost at all, just to make sure that people were up and running. Because a lot of people
in the South end, it's really a bike shop desert. You've heard of food deserts. It's really a bike
(11:41):
shop desert. It's bike works. And then the closest shop is in Tukwila. So we're really
providing a service if people could not get to our shop, the bike mobile that was
operated by youth program staff, who are all expert mechanics, was out in the community
kind of roaming around providing lower no cost bike repair. So when I started, we had 12 staff
(12:03):
members. Now we're up to 24. We were able to staff back up. And I look back at that time,
and as hard as it was, I was very proud that we didn't have to lay anybody off.
So Ed, what I'm hearing is you had to pivot when you had to close down those programs,
and then they did the bike mobile, and then you were able to grow back to, was that pre-pandemic
(12:26):
levels then? Yeah, yeah. 25 people is pre-pandemic levels. Yeah, we're back at pre-pandemic levels.
And through a lot of our work, we've received a lot of grant funding in some areas. We've
expanded staff, like in our recycle or use department. What's actually come out of that
is a community resource department, which we focus that the demand for our adult education
(12:49):
classes, do-it-yourself classes, it just gone through the roof. We're booked out,
would have been booked out for the past four years, sold out for the whole year. Because
during the pandemic, people learned that, hey, I can fix my bike myself. I can be more dependent.
And so we recognize that there was a need there. So we're able to create a whole another department
(13:11):
and expand staff and write a grant to fund that staff. So we're back to pre-pandemic levels and
then some. 2024 was a hard year for us financially. And so, again, looking at not laying off staff,
how can we address the need in the community and how can we manage budgets at the same time?
(13:35):
But we've been pretty fortunate. We've saved our money. We've made some really good financial
decisions to kind of prepare ourselves for this time. And at the same time, we've also invested
in staff. In 2022, we had a pretty significant effort to look at the rising costs of living
(13:56):
in Seattle. And what we think is the proper cost of living wage for us, not compared to other bike
nonprofits, but what is the cost of living adjustment for us at BikeWorks? And that was
all staff led. And so we've made a significant investment into pay equity over the past three
(14:19):
years. And we're probably one of the highest paid bike shop or bike employees, I'd say,
on the West Coast. Regardless if it's a nonprofit or a for-profit, you mean?
Exactly, exactly. And Seattle has changed quite a bit. When I moved here in 1988,
it's a different city. And so what's really been great is to center the passion of young staff
(14:44):
who are paying the rent. And how do we center their passion without the pressure of them
worried about a livable wage? So that's been a significant investment over the past three years.
Wow. And let's talk a bit about curiosity at work. And it sounds like during the pandemic,
(15:09):
because of those changing conditions, because you had to shut down that youth program,
you had to get curious and figure out, well, how do we deploy our folks differently?
And it also sounds like the community, the customers got more curious, too. How do I fix
my bike? How do I engage differently in biking? And so could you just share with us a tip,
(15:35):
something you do to inspire practice and curiosity in your workplace, especially with the conditions
you have these different functions of people physically being in the bike shop? And also,
did you hint at some generational? Does it skew a certain generation, too? Or is there
a pretty diverse generationally? Or does it skew a particular way?
(16:00):
Regarding the generation, both, yeah, I'm definitely the oldest in the organization.
And I think the closest person to my age is maybe early 50s, and then there's mid 40s,
and then there's a drastic drop. And so early 20s to late 20s, early 30s. And I absolutely love it
(16:24):
because it, and I think because of that, I know because of that, it keeps me naturally curious.
And when I started at Bike Works, what's really great about the organization is there's a lot
of tenure there as well. Like our shop director has been there 10 years. The recycler use director
has been around for almost 10 years. Programmatic staff is in between three to five years. So
(16:50):
there's a lot of good tenure there. And one thing that helped me the most when I started
is to share with staff the collective wisdom in this organization and in this room,
and this was in a staff meeting, is more than I'll ever have. So my goal is to ask you how I
(17:12):
can best support you. And if I do that and I support you, then you and your work will be
successful. If you and your work is successful, then your organization will be successful. If
the organization is successful, then I'll be successful. And also we were just adopting a
new strategic plan. There's no way that I myself could implement a strategic plan. So
(17:34):
to me, leadership is being curious in a very authentic way and a very collaborative way. How
would you do this? How can we do this? You're going to see things that I don't see. Tell me
about this. So that's one thing that helped me. The other thing that helped me is I'm naturally
a curious person. I have a genuine interest in people. I like people. And that really drives
(17:57):
me to ask questions. And then on the more formal side is I hired a coach two or three years ago,
and two things that we've been working on for the past three years is be curious and don't
take it personal. It's kind of a riff on the four agreements. And how that came to be was
(18:23):
in certain situations, in a lot of situations, there is pressure on leaders, especially new
leaders, to have to know everything, to have to be perfect, to have to be confident and
competent at all times. And there's no way that you can do that. And what I was running into is
if there was something that I didn't know, I would get very, very defensive and think that I had to
(18:47):
know. But what we've been working on is like pause and say, you know what? I don't know. What do you
think? And one thing that an everyday practice, meditative practice that I do in the morning for
myself is be curious and don't take it personal. And also before any meeting I go into, be it a
(19:10):
staff meeting, be it a one-on-one, be it with a donor or be it with a potential sponsor or
a community partner, I write down two things on a piece of paper, literally, be curious and don't
take it personal. So if I ever feel my heart rate going up, or if I can't answer something, I'll
look at that. It's like, don't take it personal and just be curious. It doesn't, it's not a
(19:33):
reflection on your leadership or your competence or your preparedness. It's just a state of being,
of being curious and learning. And so that's really been two of the single most things that's
helped me the most being more effective and more engaged leader. I think that I'm more approachable
now from staff. It's, it's really, it was really a kind of a tough, tough learning. And I'm glad that
(19:59):
I said yes to the challenge of getting the coach and really putting that into practice because
there's no way as a, as a leader, especially now, especially then in 2020, that you're not
going to know anything. You're not going to know everything. You know, things were changing week to
week. And I think in managing a staff of 24, things continue to change week to week, you know,
(20:22):
so it allows me to be present and curious and engage with staff on a one-on-one basis
and just maintain that throughout the day. And it's really in my life.
I so appreciate you acknowledging how difficult it can be to practice curiosity and that you got
a coach. That is a great tip. Sometimes you just need someone outside the organization
(20:43):
to support you and give you some feedback and they are not vested in the organization.
Yeah, it's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of resourcefulness. And it's, you know, I also
have a lot of mentors and elders in my life that I seek. Again, I'm just naturally curious and
(21:07):
asking questions of people who have been there before and people who are younger than me,
who have a different perspective because acknowledging that and being with that
and celebrating that difference and being open and honest with staff and saying,
hey, you guys, I got to be honest. When I was your age, and I try not to say that too many times,
(21:35):
but when I was back in the day, you never talked about your feelings in the office.
You never had the opportunity to be curious because that was a sign of weakness
or you were unprepared. I said, so this is refreshing to me and I'm learning
from you all. So it was like asking permission as a leader to be messy at times, to be curious,
(21:57):
to really explore it. And I think the relatedness that is there between staff and I now,
or just amongst staff, it's much deeper. It's helped us really typically in like nonprofits,
the dynamic between board and staff, it can be strained at times, but that curiosity that's
(22:17):
there in the organization, it's really almost eliminated that for us. And so there's a lot
of collaboration between board and staff, that mystery is gone. And it's also a daily practice.
It's something that once you achieve it, you keep doing it. You don't leave it alone. You keep doing
it and you dig deeper and deeper and deeper. So it's really, I am very happy and excited that I
(22:45):
am learning and have that beginner mindset at 59, soon to be 60, gulp. And I just really feel
like I'm in a great place. I like to learn from younger staff and I like to have access to these
elders in my life to learn from them as well. And does your team know that you have a coach?
(23:06):
Because I can imagine that it signals, hey, I'm still getting coaching from other people.
Absolutely. I share about that weekly, daily sometimes, and encourage other, we have a budget
for that, for other staff, for staff to receive coaching or professional development. And I share
what I'm learning, what I'm working on. Because I think that's part of the, that's part of the
(23:32):
feedback. That's part of the, it's part of being vulnerable. And it's part of stewarding and
creating the culture that we all want. And so, sharing that I'm working with a coach and sharing
what I'm working on and what I'm learning and also extending the invitation for staff to be
involved in that as well. It's just really, it just really takes a lot of the mystery out of it.
(23:55):
That is quite an investment for your nonprofit to invest back into your employees for their
own professional and leadership development, that you actually make budget for that.
Yeah, it's a significant line item for us, personal development, especially in the work
that we do at Social Justice with a focus on racial equity. We have to, you have to. If we
(24:20):
can't do that, then we can't achieve that. If we can't establish vulnerability and relatedness
and acknowledge our humanity with one-on-one, then achieving racial equity or working in
social justice issues, it's not possible. We have to start with that first. And so, yes,
there's inherent miss or distrust of leadership in any organization. And let's talk about that.
(24:42):
And I reiterate, I'm a Black man leading a traditionally white-led organization that
focuses on racial equity and social justice. I have no other way but to be straight up and honest,
because if I'm not, I'm doing a disservice to myself and to my people and to the mission.
So, let's start there and establish that trust and build that trust. And it's really cool to be
(25:04):
learning shoulder-to-shoulder with staff. You know, the age difference goes away. It's more
perspective. And the world's different now than when I was, you know, 28 or 29. It's different.
And so, there's this, there's a certain vulnerability there. And by me as a leader
being vulnerable and sharing that, it really helps create a culture of that, that that is
(25:29):
okay and that that's the expectation. And let's talk a little bit about the difference between
retail services in the non-profit versus for-profit, because this investment that you're
making in your employees' professional development, that usually doesn't happen for retail in the
(25:49):
for-profit sector. That might only happen for, say, those who are on that leadership track.
And do you think that that is because of the nature of your social justice mission?
Yeah, I think it is. That's a main driver because the demographics of our staff is,
(26:11):
it's 25% African American, it's 25% Asian American, it's probably 15 to 10% trans,
and 20 to 25% white, white allies. So, the diversity that we support in the community,
it's on staff and it's on our board as well. You can look at that, it's across all areas of
(26:35):
our organization. And so, we're not just investing in community, we're also investing in staff.
One thing in the past for BikeWorks, there was quite a significant turnover. And a high percent
of that turnover came with staff of color. And so, in order for us to address that,
(26:56):
we have to name it and speak to it and identify why. And a lot of staff was feeling that the wages,
again, we're not keeping up with the pace of Seattle. And there really wasn't that investment,
people wanted to look at BikeWorks as not just a job, but a career. And so, how do we do that?
So, we're not only looking at salary, but we're also looking at personal and professional
(27:19):
development. So, we have a personal and professional development stipend. We have,
if you work in the shop or the warehouse, where your clothes take a beating, we have a clothing
stipend. We have increased our sick time, we call it wellness time. It used to be two weeks,
now it's 30 days. So, and that's different for a salaried staff, which are the directors versus
(27:44):
hourly staff, because hourly staff was feeling, if I want to go to the doctor, or if I have to
take my cat to the vet or something, that's coming out of my paycheck. So, we switched our
thinking of like, why don't you use your wellness time? So, if you need an hour here, two hours
here, or maybe one day you're just not feeling it, and you want to take a mental health day,
(28:05):
or maybe there's a cause that's going on in the community and you want to show up for a protest,
or a march, or something, or just be in community with your people to do that,
and not for that to come out of PTO. So, all of those things really add up. When you start at
BikeWorks, you receive three weeks of vacation and 30 days of wellness. That's the standard,
(28:25):
no matter if you're a coordinator, no matter if you're a director, no matter if you're an executive
director, whatever, that's the standard. The week between Christmas and New Year's, we shut down,
and it's like, enjoy your family, enjoy your friends, do whatever you need. So,
I'm looking at a holistic package, not just salary, but holistically, what are the things
(28:51):
that people need to center their passion, so they can show up to work and center their passion.
Also, too, if you're a bike enthusiast, having access to any and every bike or bike part
that's ever made, that's a huge perk. I know it is for me. So, if you look at all that stuff,
it really creates a culture, and we're still working on it. We're not done,
(29:15):
and all of these changes are staff led. It's not me thinking of this stuff and incorporating it,
it's like us collaborating on what can we do together. Tell me about that. We had a high
turnover rate in our youth programs department, and we really sat with why that is. Well,
what's going on is we're, during the summer, we have summer camps, and then we have in-school
(29:38):
programming. There really weren't these structured breaks, so staff was getting
burned out in that. So, instead of doing all day camps, why don't we just do four day camps?
And then, why don't we have a week or two weeks in between camps, so people can recover?
Because working with our product, our end goal product is people, and working with people
(30:01):
takes a lot of energy. So, how do we create a restorative environment, restorative culture,
so people feel refreshed, again, so they can celebrate their passion, so they can show up,
they're for themselves, for none of their colleagues, but also for the students and
for the adults they engage with. So, it's really been a holistic approach, and again, we're not
done. It's always evolving. We have a committee, and a couple committees that that is their
(30:26):
mission to work on this, to make sure that we steward this. So, it's a work in progress,
and I look back to where we were in 2020 versus now, and it's like, you know, it's the
organization. You really don't even recognize it. There's been so much positive change.
So, Ed, I'm hearing you say that practicing curiosity, asking the staff what they need,
(30:51):
actually led to higher staff retention, and also what you're saying about changing the
structure of the service offering so that it also fits the needs of the employee, which is
different than if you were in a totally for-profit, where they're actually, how do we help the
customer? How do we help the customer? And you're not thinking about the internal customers, and yet
(31:12):
you've really described the employees as being part of the people that you are serving.
Correct. Correct. Racial equity and social justice work is hard, especially when you're in it.
Like, the communities that we serve are my community. You know, the Filipino community
(31:34):
that we serve are the Filipino staff and board members' community as well.
So, if we're going to take care of the community, we need to take care of ourselves.
You know, it's just this circle. In order for us to show up in our best selves to really serve
the community, we have to make sure that we're in a good place as well. It's like that overused
(31:58):
analogy, airplane, yeah, like put the oxygen mask on your face first, you know. And that's
something that really I learned real time in my first year. When you have your performance review,
which was done by the board and done by staff, the feedback I got was like, it works too much.
(32:19):
You know, I'm afraid to approach him with some new stuff. And, you know, when you have real
feedback from board members saying, hey, I don't want to get an email from you at a quarter to 11
at night, stop it. Yeah. And this is where leaders have to model. Yeah. And this board
member looks like you. And I didn't know I was showing up that way. I was like, okay, well,
there's a big, pretty big hint there. But really taking that to heart, seeing
(32:47):
staff trusted like this, going from 10 days of sick time to 30 days of wellness time,
and seeing staff test that and really take care of themselves and then showing up,
you know, a week later or the next day, just like full and ready to go and energized.
(33:07):
We're having conversations with folks like, hey, you know, I noticed you haven't taken vacation.
Or perhaps, hey, I noticed that, you know, we have a policy at 15 days of wellness time,
we check in, hey, are you okay? Is this something that, you know, and having a dialogue with some
staff saying, no, I'm not, I think I might need some additional time. Okay, let's figure that out.
(33:32):
You know, so really centering the well-being of staff first. And again, this is evolving.
And, you know, it's there's always other models out there. And sometimes we have conversations
about the difference between for-profit and non-profit. And for some staff, this is their
first job, either out of college or just their first job period. And really breaking down the
(33:55):
difference between for-profit and non-profit. It's like, well, the reason that Google or whatever,
your friend who's making six figures can do that is because it's for-profit. They have built-in
margins in the product that they sell that go into the bank or go to staff perks and that sort
of thing. Everything, we don't make profit. The revenue we make, we're supposed to have
(34:18):
zero at the end of the year. If there's any surplus of that, that goes right back to the
organization. That might go into cost of living adjustment, that might go into a merit increase,
that might go into a bonus, but our goal is to finish with zero at the end of the year.
So let's build a budget based on that common knowledge. Let's build a budget on, say, if
(34:38):
we want everybody's wages to go up 20%, what are the implications to the organization? If we have
only four, three or four revenue generating centers in the organization, the bike shop,
grants, individual giving, sponsorship, that means we have to bump those goals as well.
(34:59):
So just being really transparent with staff, where that's going to come from,
and then involving staff and creating that budget, embedding that budget so we all know
what's going on, demystifying all of that. That was a new approach as well.
Yeah, that transparency so that you're also educating them on that. I really appreciate
(35:19):
the shift from thinking of it as sick days to wellness days because it's actually,
how do I not wait until I'm absolutely dying? Actually, what can I do to prevent
myself to getting to that stage so that I can actually be well?
Right. Or if the conversation was also, hey, let's look at what part of your job is causing you this
(35:42):
stress and let's see if we can rethink that part of your job to where it's 100% joy. Wouldn't
that be awesome? I mean, I don't like doing budgets. I don't like doing payroll.
I don't like spreadsheets. I don't like creating spreadsheets.
I don't like spreadsheets. Everything else I love about my job, I also know that some
of these things are necessary. But the conversations I've had with the board is,
(36:06):
I'm a community guy. I like being out, making connections, building partnerships. I really
need to shift some of this admin stuff. I know I have to own some of it and hold some of it just
by the size of our organization. But how can, can you help me shift some of this?
And let's create a position to hold some of that. And so it's just, it's really a constant,
(36:30):
ongoing dialogue of, let's create an environment and a culture that is preventative. And that is
a focus on abundance rather than working you to the bone and then having to restore you back up.
How do we just stay here and keep going like this?
Ed, you have given so many great tips on not just how to practice curiosity in the workplace,
(36:53):
how to retain employees and make sure that they are having that joy in their work.
Now, I want to talk about how do you recruit people? How do you identify for curiosity?
Actually, I'm going to ask two questions because this is a bike shop. So do they all have to be
cyclists? Number one. And number two is what is your favorite way of identifying curiosity
(37:19):
for potential people who are going to work at BikeWorks?
Sure. I mean, I look at it as two ways. First, well, not first, but part of it is board retention
and board recruitment. We value time and talent. Board giving is not a line item.
And so because of that, we're able to identify and you don't have to be a cyclist at all.
(37:45):
You know, somebody with a youth programs, youth development, education background that is in the
98118 zip code or South Seattle. Again, we're the communities that we serve, the black and brown
communities of Seattle is finding individuals in those communities that have youth program
experience, have non-profit financial experience, have non-profit legal experience,
(38:13):
have non-profit board governance experience. And so by taking, so that's one aspect of recruiting
and the bike doesn't have to be there, but the understanding and the competence of social
justice and specifically racial equity, that is, that's centered. They have to have that.
(38:35):
And so by being very explicit about that, it tracks light-minded people and they can kind
of self-select like this is an organization that I'm interested in. They're very transparent and
very vocal and very explicit about what they do. And I can identify with that. It's easy to
identify. So that's one thing. The second in recruiting staff, this part of the country,
(38:56):
Seattle and the Northwest is a very bike centric part of the country. So it attracts bike people.
And then again, being very transparent and visible and explicit with our social justice,
racial equity focus, it allows people to see themselves in the organization.
(39:16):
And so they know what they're getting into. And again, you don't have to be a cyclist. You just
have to understand and get what our mission is and what we're doing. And so we have some staff
that are, you know, like our shop manager is a mechanical engineer and has been at BikeWorks
six years. We have people on staff that have environmental education backgrounds.
(39:45):
It's a tech backgrounds, but they get what we're trying to do and what we're trying to achieve with
the bike. And then when we're interviewing, another thing that attracts candidates is what
we're paying and the benefits back because it comes along with it. So when we're interviewing
clients or candidates, what I look for is, is it a conversation? Is it a discussion? You know,
(40:12):
back in the day, it was more of a performance. You know, you needed to be prepared and there was no
deviating from script at all. But what I look for is somebody who has the presence and the confidence
and competence and the interest to ask questions about the organization, not just what you read
off a website, but how do you address and social justice with a bicycle? You know, what are the
(40:39):
needs of Black and Brown youth today? Here's what I've learned, or here's what I've done. How do
you address that? I look for more of a conversation and dialogue where it's not off a script,
where we stop. A good indicator for me is when I stop taking notes and I just stop listening.
And I'm like, boy, there's something here where it just feels like a, like a dialogue.
(41:01):
There's a genuine interest. And the way I gauge that is through their curiosity,
their natural curiosity, not what they've learned off the website, but just what's in them as a
human being, what interests them in social justice outside of the organization, how it affects their
lives. You know, how do they deal with social justice and racial equity in their lives? What
are the conversations they're having? What do you think's going on in the world today? So it's more
(41:25):
of a discussion and that vulnerability, that curiosity is there. That's what I look for.
Hmm. So just a really great conversation. Yeah. So at last question, what is inspiring
curiosity for you in your world right now? I think turning 60.
(41:48):
Tell me more. What does that mean? I'm now that elder. So that's, so asking
myself, how do I want to be, how do I want to be in this next chapter of my life?
You know, where's my energy going? What really, I'm a, I'm a very mission-driven person.
(42:10):
You know, so, so what does that mean both personally, personally and professionally?
You know, and I also pay attention to how I feel when I am curious. I pay attention to,
to, I feel when I do feel nervous, you know I pay attention to, to, to how connected I feel.
(42:34):
When I ask a staff member who's 22, like, what'd you do this weekend? You know? And
what's next for you? I just had this wonderful conversation with a staff member just yesterday.
And I said, Hey, do you have a second? Let's go for a walk. I just want to talk to you.
(42:55):
And I could, I could see the fear in his face. And I was like, yeah, let's just go for a walk.
And he was quiet and I was like, it's looking, I was like, you're doing a good job.
You're doing a really good job. And it just opened up this amazing conversation of,
you know, he's grown up in BikeWorks programming. I don't expect him to be at BikeWorks forever.
(43:18):
And I tell staff that too. And I was like, you guys, I'm not going to be here forever. I was like,
and I don't expect you to be here forever, but so what's new, what's next for you? And if you
have ideas and you want to talk about that, you know, with me, or make sure you talk about that
with some friends or some elders in your life who, who may have done that and may have, or just
(43:39):
vetted by talking about it. And so by me saying this to him and then asking him like, what's next?
45 minutes later, you know, he's, he's like, yeah, I see myself here for another year. And then I
want to do this and I want to do that. And I was like, great. Now I know how to support you.
(44:00):
It's that transparency.
Yeah. I mean, I don't have kids, but I think the, one of the biggest parts and joy of my
job is to be able to have those conversations with, with, with staff, regardless of their age.
(44:22):
It's just, I didn't know, I didn't know I had this in me and the older I get, the more stronger that
is. So I think in some respects I should be curious with myself and pay attention to that.
Yeah.
Yeah. The practicing the inward curiosity too.
(44:43):
Yes. Yeah.
Ed, thank you so much. How do people get in touch with you?
My email is ed at bikeworks.org or bikeworks.org. Again, we're located in Columbia city in Seattle,
Washington, and you can't miss us. It's the big yellow house in the middle of Columbia city.
And you'll see a lot of people riding bikes around and that's the best way to get in touch with me.
(45:07):
Yeah. Ed, thank you so much for your insights today. I've know that the listeners have got
so many tangible tips, even just writing down, be curious. Don't take it personally. That's cool.
So thank you so much. And audience remember to practice curiosity in the world.
(45:28):
Thank you.
I'm Dr. Julie Pham, founder of Curiosity Based. We help people practice curiosity in the world,
starting in the workplace, because that is where we spend most of our waking hours. Curiosity
as a practice boils down to self-awareness, relationship building, and clear communication.
So join us as we interview leaders to see how they use curiosity at work. Welcome to
the Curiosity at Work podcast. I'm Julie Pham, and today I get to chat with Ed Ewing,
(00:31):
who is the executive director of BikeWorks, a nonprofit bike shop. Welcome, Ed.
Hi, Julie. Nice meeting you. Thanks for having me.
Yes, Ed, I'm looking forward to this conversation because I know you have over 30 years of experience
with sales and marketing. Most of that was in the for-profit, and then in 2007, you moved
(00:52):
over to the nonprofit space. And BikeWorks is a nonprofit bike shop. That means it's
what? That retail services can actually be nonprofits. I usually think of them as for-profits.
Can you explain what that means?
Yeah, yeah, I'd love to. It's a rather unique business model that we have. We only sell
(01:13):
used bikes and used bike parts. Of course, we have some new product like helmets and
lights and locks and that sort of thing. But the model really is we're a community-based
bike shop, and we also provide additional services like youth programming, adult programming,
lower no-cost bike repair provided, and BikeMobile, which is a mobile bike shop, basically. Then
(01:36):
a big part of our business is recycle, reuse. We receive anywhere from 6,000 to 8,000 donated
bikes per year, and we keep probably 30% of those. That's our yield. And those bikes are
refurbished, and some of those are sold in the bike shop, and some of those are given
away in the community for free. And the bikes we can't use, we work with Seattle Recycling
(01:57):
to make sure that those bikes are recycled, the metal's recycled. And then we also work
with a couple other organizations that refurbish bikes and send them to Africa. So there's
no waste in the work that we do. All the proceeds and the sales and revenue that's generated
through the bike shop, it goes directly back into the organization. And it goes back into
(02:19):
the organization a couple of different ways. Those are salaries of those who are working
in the bike shop. It goes to fuel our youth programs and adult programs. Our youth programs
are offered in a couple of different ways, either embedded year-round in South End schools
like Franklin, Cleveland, Rainier Beach, and South Shore K-8. A lot of those programs that
(02:42):
we offer in the schools are free. And so the bike shop, the revenue generated there
goes to fuel those programs. And then also the revenue generated for the bike shop goes
to fuel our adult programs as well. We offer sliding scale. So if someone can't afford
to pay to have their bike repaired, or they can't afford a new bike, we make sure that
(03:04):
the bike is repaired free of cost, or the person receives a brand new bike, either at
a very low price or free. And then we also, there is a client base in Columbia City and
surrounding areas that can afford to buy a bike. We have a pay it forward price, and
they can pay the market price and then some, and then some. Those proceeds go right back
(03:28):
into the organization, again, to fuel youth programs, adult programs, in-school education,
or to give bikes away for free.
So it sounds like with a non-profit retail model, all the revenue that comes from selling
the product actually then fuels these programs for, in this case, youth, for the community.
(03:51):
I think about Goodwill and how they do that, the revenue that they generate from the sale
of all their items in the shops, that fuels the job training. Are there other non-profit
bike shops in the U.S.? Because this is the first time I've ever heard of this.
Yeah, there actually is quite an extensive network. Here on the West Coast, there's Bike
(04:14):
Works. Then at Tacoma, there's Second Cycle, which is in Tacoma on Emma King Boulevard.
In Everett, there's Shearing Wheels. And in Port Townsend, there's Port Townsend Cyclery.
And we all share a very similar business model. And then also in Portland, there's a community
cycling center. We all share a similar business model, but it's the same premise of only selling
(04:39):
used parts, used bikes in the shop. And those proceeds go right back into the organization
to fuel other programs. We get a lot of donations as well. If somebody wants to buy a bike,
they want to donate on top. And it's very easy to explain to a customer or a donor where their
money is going and how it shows up in the community and how it shows up in our programming.
(05:04):
In a time when a lot of non-profits are being asked to act more like businesses,
actually Bike Works does operate like a business.
Yeah, definitely. We were founded in 1996, based in Columbia City, and we're remaining in Columbia
City. Our business model and our ethos of our work is social justice with a focus on racial equity.
(05:29):
And that's intentional. And we are intentionally serve South End zip codes and South End communities
where that's where the greatest need is. And so that principle and that ethos was started in 96.
And we've stayed focused on that. And actually in 2020, when I joined the organization,
it was right after the murder of George Floyd. We continued to do what we were doing. We didn't
(05:54):
have to deviate or ramp up any diversity, equity, inclusion initiative. It's just what we do. It's
the foundation of our work. And even now, it's just we're more relevant than ever. And that's
very intentional. And we've had discussions about, should we move further South? And that might
happen, but maybe a satellite. But we feel like Columbia City is where we want to stay. The need
(06:21):
is there, and the community that we serve is there as well. So listeners, I just want to clarify
something for you, because Ed keeps talking about Columbia City and South End. And so what that
refers to is just the South End Seattle, which is one of the most racially, ethnically diverse
parts of the country, not just of Seattle, but of the country. So Ed, you joined in August 2020.
(06:43):
This is the middle of the pandemic. Can you just share a bit about the workforce,
the employee base that you started with, and how that changed when you joined?
Certainly. Yeah, this is definitely my dream job. I've been bike racing and around bikes since I was
(07:03):
16, and I grew up in the Midwest. And half of my career, I spent in for-profit. And so I started
a non-profit in 2007 and directed a couple of initiatives that were community-based here
embedded in schools that specifically focused on black and brown youth called the Major Taylor
Project. And when I started the project, it was in two schools. When I left the project,
(07:27):
it was in 18 schools. And so I was in concert with Bike Works the whole time and just did a
lot of collaboration with Bike Works. So to get the call from my former executive director and
saying, hey, would you like to get back into the bike world? As deputy director now, executive
(07:47):
director of Bike Works, it was a dream opportunity for me. The workforce, ironically enough,
the cycling community here in Seattle is big. It's also small. And so the workforce, when I
joined Bike Works, I knew a lot of staff and I collaborated with a lot of the staff over the
past 10, 15 years. So it really felt like coming home, honestly. And the interesting thing about
(08:12):
Bike Works and the mission and the purpose of the organization is so strong and so big. It
attracts like-minded individuals who see the possibility with a bike that it's not just bike
riding. It's an opportunity to build community. It's an opportunity to reach black and brown youth
and black and brown adults in communities differently. And so you have this really strong
(08:36):
bond and connection with staff. And I did and stepped right into that. And so as difficult a
time as 2020 was, and feeling those headwinds still today, it was nice to be shoulder to shoulder
with like-minded individuals who see the possibility of a bike. It's beyond just riding. It's more of
(08:58):
community building. It's actually a form of advocacy. And so a lot of that, a lot of those
staff are still at Bike Works today. We've had, we have several staff members who started as a youth
in Bike Works programs and who have grown up in the programs who are now managers, who are now
coordinators. And some of the staff who were there in 2020 put their time in, so to speak, and now
(09:24):
they're on doing other things, but still in that social justice, race, racial equity vein. So it's
nice to see staff. And I'm by far the oldest in the organization. Let's be honest. This gray hair
is not fake. So it's really cool to see people start their career and their path. And I think
(09:48):
the most rewarding part of my job is to be able to help them in that journey.
Ed, can you share a bit of how many people there were when you started? What their functions were?
Did the functions have to change when the pandemic hit? Yeah, when I started, staff had been,
(10:11):
had gone through a couple layoffs, a couple furloughs. So when I started, there was 12 staff
members. And the interesting thing about how the pandemic affected our business is in two ways. One,
bike sales were going through the roof. So we had bikes that were under $1,000 that retail
(10:32):
establishments through trade and through logistics could not access bikes under $1,000. We had them.
So as busy as the shop was, we were able to deploy some staff into the bike shop to increase
our hours. We were open seven days a week. And also another thing that affected our business is
(10:57):
since school was all remote, our in-school and afterschool program was shut down.
So the youth program staff that deliver that curriculum, we were at a point of like, well,
what do we do with the staff? We don't want to lay anybody off. So we were able to deploy that staff
into our mobile bike shop, the bike mobile. And so the bike mobile was out into the community five
(11:19):
days a week. Again, in the strategically placed in communities that are of great need and able to
provide low cost bike repair, like fixing a change in the inner tube, fixing a flat or a chain,
or no cost at all, just to make sure that people were up and running. Because a lot of people
in the South end, it's really a bike shop desert. You've heard of food deserts. It's really a bike
(11:41):
shop desert. It's bike works. And then the closest shop is in Tukwila. So we're really
providing a service if people could not get to our shop, the bike mobile that was
operated by youth program staff, who are all expert mechanics, was out in the community
kind of roaming around providing lower no cost bike repair. So when I started, we had 12 staff
(12:03):
members. Now we're up to 24. We were able to staff back up. And I look back at that time,
and as hard as it was, I was very proud that we didn't have to lay anybody off.
So Ed, what I'm hearing is you had to pivot when you had to close down those programs,
and then they did the bike mobile, and then you were able to grow back to, was that pre-pandemic
(12:26):
levels then? Yeah, yeah. 25 people is pre-pandemic levels. Yeah, we're back at pre-pandemic levels.
And through a lot of our work, we've received a lot of grant funding in some areas. We've
expanded staff, like in our recycle or use department. What's actually come out of that
is a community resource department, which we focus that the demand for our adult education
(12:49):
classes, do-it-yourself classes, it just gone through the roof. We're booked out,
would have been booked out for the past four years, sold out for the whole year. Because
during the pandemic, people learned that, hey, I can fix my bike myself. I can be more dependent.
And so we recognize that there was a need there. So we're able to create a whole another department
(13:11):
and expand staff and write a grant to fund that staff. So we're back to pre-pandemic levels and
then some. 2024 was a hard year for us financially. And so, again, looking at not laying off staff,
how can we address the need in the community and how can we manage budgets at the same time?
(13:35):
But we've been pretty fortunate. We've saved our money. We've made some really good financial
decisions to kind of prepare ourselves for this time. And at the same time, we've also invested
in staff. In 2022, we had a pretty significant effort to look at the rising costs of living
(13:56):
in Seattle. And what we think is the proper cost of living wage for us, not compared to other bike
nonprofits, but what is the cost of living adjustment for us at BikeWorks? And that was
all staff led. And so we've made a significant investment into pay equity over the past three
(14:19):
years. And we're probably one of the highest paid bike shop or bike employees, I'd say,
on the West Coast. Regardless if it's a nonprofit or a for-profit, you mean?
Exactly, exactly. And Seattle has changed quite a bit. When I moved here in 1988,
it's a different city. And so what's really been great is to center the passion of young staff
(14:44):
who are paying the rent. And how do we center their passion without the pressure of them
worried about a livable wage? So that's been a significant investment over the past three years.
Wow. And let's talk a bit about curiosity at work. And it sounds like during the pandemic,
(15:09):
because of those changing conditions, because you had to shut down that youth program,
you had to get curious and figure out, well, how do we deploy our folks differently?
And it also sounds like the community, the customers got more curious, too. How do I fix
my bike? How do I engage differently in biking? And so could you just share with us a tip,
(15:35):
something you do to inspire practice and curiosity in your workplace, especially with the conditions
you have these different functions of people physically being in the bike shop? And also,
did you hint at some generational? Does it skew a certain generation, too? Or is there
a pretty diverse generationally? Or does it skew a particular way?
(16:00):
Regarding the generation, both, yeah, I'm definitely the oldest in the organization.
And I think the closest person to my age is maybe early 50s, and then there's mid 40s,
and then there's a drastic drop. And so early 20s to late 20s, early 30s. And I absolutely love it
(16:24):
because it, and I think because of that, I know because of that, it keeps me naturally curious.
And when I started at Bike Works, what's really great about the organization is there's a lot
of tenure there as well. Like our shop director has been there 10 years. The recycler use director
has been around for almost 10 years. Programmatic staff is in between three to five years. So
(16:50):
there's a lot of good tenure there. And one thing that helped me the most when I started
is to share with staff the collective wisdom in this organization and in this room,
and this was in a staff meeting, is more than I'll ever have. So my goal is to ask you how I
(17:12):
can best support you. And if I do that and I support you, then you and your work will be
successful. If you and your work is successful, then your organization will be successful. If
the organization is successful, then I'll be successful. And also we were just adopting a
new strategic plan. There's no way that I myself could implement a strategic plan. So
(17:34):
to me, leadership is being curious in a very authentic way and a very collaborative way. How
would you do this? How can we do this? You're going to see things that I don't see. Tell me
about this. So that's one thing that helped me. The other thing that helped me is I'm naturally
a curious person. I have a genuine interest in people. I like people. And that really drives
(17:57):
me to ask questions. And then on the more formal side is I hired a coach two or three years ago,
and two things that we've been working on for the past three years is be curious and don't
take it personal. It's kind of a riff on the four agreements. And how that came to be was
(18:23):
in certain situations, in a lot of situations, there is pressure on leaders, especially new
leaders, to have to know everything, to have to be perfect, to have to be confident and
competent at all times. And there's no way that you can do that. And what I was running into is
if there was something that I didn't know, I would get very, very defensive and think that I had to
(18:47):
know. But what we've been working on is like pause and say, you know what? I don't know. What do you
think? And one thing that an everyday practice, meditative practice that I do in the morning for
myself is be curious and don't take it personal. And also before any meeting I go into, be it a
(19:10):
staff meeting, be it a one-on-one, be it with a donor or be it with a potential sponsor or
a community partner, I write down two things on a piece of paper, literally, be curious and don't
take it personal. So if I ever feel my heart rate going up, or if I can't answer something, I'll
look at that. It's like, don't take it personal and just be curious. It doesn't, it's not a
(19:33):
reflection on your leadership or your competence or your preparedness. It's just a state of being,
of being curious and learning. And so that's really been two of the single most things that's
helped me the most being more effective and more engaged leader. I think that I'm more approachable
now from staff. It's, it's really, it was really a kind of a tough, tough learning. And I'm glad that
(19:59):
I said yes to the challenge of getting the coach and really putting that into practice because
there's no way as a, as a leader, especially now, especially then in 2020, that you're not
going to know anything. You're not going to know everything. You know, things were changing week to
week. And I think in managing a staff of 24, things continue to change week to week, you know,
(20:22):
so it allows me to be present and curious and engage with staff on a one-on-one basis
and just maintain that throughout the day. And it's really in my life.
I so appreciate you acknowledging how difficult it can be to practice curiosity and that you got
a coach. That is a great tip. Sometimes you just need someone outside the organization
(20:43):
to support you and give you some feedback and they are not vested in the organization.
Yeah, it's not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of resourcefulness. And it's, you know, I also
have a lot of mentors and elders in my life that I seek. Again, I'm just naturally curious and
(21:07):
asking questions of people who have been there before and people who are younger than me,
who have a different perspective because acknowledging that and being with that
and celebrating that difference and being open and honest with staff and saying,
hey, you guys, I got to be honest. When I was your age, and I try not to say that too many times,
(21:35):
but when I was back in the day, you never talked about your feelings in the office.
You never had the opportunity to be curious because that was a sign of weakness
or you were unprepared. I said, so this is refreshing to me and I'm learning
from you all. So it was like asking permission as a leader to be messy at times, to be curious,
(21:57):
to really explore it. And I think the relatedness that is there between staff and I now,
or just amongst staff, it's much deeper. It's helped us really typically in like nonprofits,
the dynamic between board and staff, it can be strained at times, but that curiosity that's
(22:17):
there in the organization, it's really almost eliminated that for us. And so there's a lot
of collaboration between board and staff, that mystery is gone. And it's also a daily practice.
It's something that once you achieve it, you keep doing it. You don't leave it alone. You keep doing
it and you dig deeper and deeper and deeper. So it's really, I am very happy and excited that I
(22:45):
am learning and have that beginner mindset at 59, soon to be 60, gulp. And I just really feel
like I'm in a great place. I like to learn from younger staff and I like to have access to these
elders in my life to learn from them as well. And does your team know that you have a coach?
(23:06):
Because I can imagine that it signals, hey, I'm still getting coaching from other people.
Absolutely. I share about that weekly, daily sometimes, and encourage other, we have a budget
for that, for other staff, for staff to receive coaching or professional development. And I share
what I'm learning, what I'm working on. Because I think that's part of the, that's part of the
(23:32):
feedback. That's part of the, it's part of being vulnerable. And it's part of stewarding and
creating the culture that we all want. And so, sharing that I'm working with a coach and sharing
what I'm working on and what I'm learning and also extending the invitation for staff to be
involved in that as well. It's just really, it just really takes a lot of the mystery out of it.
(23:55):
That is quite an investment for your nonprofit to invest back into your employees for their
own professional and leadership development, that you actually make budget for that.
Yeah, it's a significant line item for us, personal development, especially in the work
that we do at Social Justice with a focus on racial equity. We have to, you have to. If we
(24:20):
can't do that, then we can't achieve that. If we can't establish vulnerability and relatedness
and acknowledge our humanity with one-on-one, then achieving racial equity or working in
social justice issues, it's not possible. We have to start with that first. And so, yes,
there's inherent miss or distrust of leadership in any organization. And let's talk about that.
(24:42):
And I reiterate, I'm a Black man leading a traditionally white-led organization that
focuses on racial equity and social justice. I have no other way but to be straight up and honest,
because if I'm not, I'm doing a disservice to myself and to my people and to the mission.
So, let's start there and establish that trust and build that trust. And it's really cool to be
(25:04):
learning shoulder-to-shoulder with staff. You know, the age difference goes away. It's more
perspective. And the world's different now than when I was, you know, 28 or 29. It's different.
And so, there's this, there's a certain vulnerability there. And by me as a leader
being vulnerable and sharing that, it really helps create a culture of that, that that is
(25:29):
okay and that that's the expectation. And let's talk a little bit about the difference between
retail services in the non-profit versus for-profit, because this investment that you're
making in your employees' professional development, that usually doesn't happen for retail in the
(25:49):
for-profit sector. That might only happen for, say, those who are on that leadership track.
And do you think that that is because of the nature of your social justice mission?
Yeah, I think it is. That's a main driver because the demographics of our staff is,
(26:11):
it's 25% African American, it's 25% Asian American, it's probably 15 to 10% trans,
and 20 to 25% white, white allies. So, the diversity that we support in the community,
it's on staff and it's on our board as well. You can look at that, it's across all areas of
(26:35):
our organization. And so, we're not just investing in community, we're also investing in staff.
One thing in the past for BikeWorks, there was quite a significant turnover. And a high percent
of that turnover came with staff of color. And so, in order for us to address that,
(26:56):
we have to name it and speak to it and identify why. And a lot of staff was feeling that the wages,
again, we're not keeping up with the pace of Seattle. And there really wasn't that investment,
people wanted to look at BikeWorks as not just a job, but a career. And so, how do we do that?
So, we're not only looking at salary, but we're also looking at personal and professional
(27:19):
development. So, we have a personal and professional development stipend. We have,
if you work in the shop or the warehouse, where your clothes take a beating, we have a clothing
stipend. We have increased our sick time, we call it wellness time. It used to be two weeks,
now it's 30 days. So, and that's different for a salaried staff, which are the directors versus
(27:44):
hourly staff, because hourly staff was feeling, if I want to go to the doctor, or if I have to
take my cat to the vet or something, that's coming out of my paycheck. So, we switched our
thinking of like, why don't you use your wellness time? So, if you need an hour here, two hours
here, or maybe one day you're just not feeling it, and you want to take a mental health day,
(28:05):
or maybe there's a cause that's going on in the community and you want to show up for a protest,
or a march, or something, or just be in community with your people to do that,
and not for that to come out of PTO. So, all of those things really add up. When you start at
BikeWorks, you receive three weeks of vacation and 30 days of wellness. That's the standard,
(28:25):
no matter if you're a coordinator, no matter if you're a director, no matter if you're an executive
director, whatever, that's the standard. The week between Christmas and New Year's, we shut down,
and it's like, enjoy your family, enjoy your friends, do whatever you need. So,
I'm looking at a holistic package, not just salary, but holistically, what are the things
(28:51):
that people need to center their passion, so they can show up to work and center their passion.
Also, too, if you're a bike enthusiast, having access to any and every bike or bike part
that's ever made, that's a huge perk. I know it is for me. So, if you look at all that stuff,
it really creates a culture, and we're still working on it. We're not done,
(29:15):
and all of these changes are staff led. It's not me thinking of this stuff and incorporating it,
it's like us collaborating on what can we do together. Tell me about that. We had a high
turnover rate in our youth programs department, and we really sat with why that is. Well,
what's going on is we're, during the summer, we have summer camps, and then we have in-school
(29:38):
programming. There really weren't these structured breaks, so staff was getting
burned out in that. So, instead of doing all day camps, why don't we just do four day camps?
And then, why don't we have a week or two weeks in between camps, so people can recover?
Because working with our product, our end goal product is people, and working with people
(30:01):
takes a lot of energy. So, how do we create a restorative environment, restorative culture,
so people feel refreshed, again, so they can celebrate their passion, so they can show up,
they're for themselves, for none of their colleagues, but also for the students and
for the adults they engage with. So, it's really been a holistic approach, and again, we're not
done. It's always evolving. We have a committee, and a couple committees that that is their
(30:26):
mission to work on this, to make sure that we steward this. So, it's a work in progress,
and I look back to where we were in 2020 versus now, and it's like, you know, it's the
organization. You really don't even recognize it. There's been so much positive change.
So, Ed, I'm hearing you say that practicing curiosity, asking the staff what they need,
(30:51):
actually led to higher staff retention, and also what you're saying about changing the
structure of the service offering so that it also fits the needs of the employee, which is
different than if you were in a totally for-profit, where they're actually, how do we help the
customer? How do we help the customer? And you're not thinking about the internal customers, and yet
(31:12):
you've really described the employees as being part of the people that you are serving.
Correct. Correct. Racial equity and social justice work is hard, especially when you're in it.
Like, the communities that we serve are my community. You know, the Filipino community
(31:34):
that we serve are the Filipino staff and board members' community as well.
So, if we're going to take care of the community, we need to take care of ourselves.
You know, it's just this circle. In order for us to show up in our best selves to really serve
the community, we have to make sure that we're in a good place as well. It's like that overused
(31:58):
analogy, airplane, yeah, like put the oxygen mask on your face first, you know. And that's
something that really I learned real time in my first year. When you have your performance review,
which was done by the board and done by staff, the feedback I got was like, it works too much.
(32:19):
You know, I'm afraid to approach him with some new stuff. And, you know, when you have real
feedback from board members saying, hey, I don't want to get an email from you at a quarter to 11
at night, stop it. Yeah. And this is where leaders have to model. Yeah. And this board
member looks like you. And I didn't know I was showing up that way. I was like, okay, well,
there's a big, pretty big hint there. But really taking that to heart, seeing
(32:47):
staff trusted like this, going from 10 days of sick time to 30 days of wellness time,
and seeing staff test that and really take care of themselves and then showing up,
you know, a week later or the next day, just like full and ready to go and energized.
(33:07):
We're having conversations with folks like, hey, you know, I noticed you haven't taken vacation.
Or perhaps, hey, I noticed that, you know, we have a policy at 15 days of wellness time,
we check in, hey, are you okay? Is this something that, you know, and having a dialogue with some
staff saying, no, I'm not, I think I might need some additional time. Okay, let's figure that out.
(33:32):
You know, so really centering the well-being of staff first. And again, this is evolving.
And, you know, it's there's always other models out there. And sometimes we have conversations
about the difference between for-profit and non-profit. And for some staff, this is their
first job, either out of college or just their first job period. And really breaking down the
(33:55):
difference between for-profit and non-profit. It's like, well, the reason that Google or whatever,
your friend who's making six figures can do that is because it's for-profit. They have built-in
margins in the product that they sell that go into the bank or go to staff perks and that sort
of thing. Everything, we don't make profit. The revenue we make, we're supposed to have
(34:18):
zero at the end of the year. If there's any surplus of that, that goes right back to the
organization. That might go into cost of living adjustment, that might go into a merit increase,
that might go into a bonus, but our goal is to finish with zero at the end of the year.
So let's build a budget based on that common knowledge. Let's build a budget on, say, if
(34:38):
we want everybody's wages to go up 20%, what are the implications to the organization? If we have
only four, three or four revenue generating centers in the organization, the bike shop,
grants, individual giving, sponsorship, that means we have to bump those goals as well.
(34:59):
So just being really transparent with staff, where that's going to come from,
and then involving staff and creating that budget, embedding that budget so we all know
what's going on, demystifying all of that. That was a new approach as well.
Yeah, that transparency so that you're also educating them on that. I really appreciate
(35:19):
the shift from thinking of it as sick days to wellness days because it's actually,
how do I not wait until I'm absolutely dying? Actually, what can I do to prevent
myself to getting to that stage so that I can actually be well?
Right. Or if the conversation was also, hey, let's look at what part of your job is causing you this
(35:42):
stress and let's see if we can rethink that part of your job to where it's 100% joy. Wouldn't
that be awesome? I mean, I don't like doing budgets. I don't like doing payroll.
I don't like spreadsheets. I don't like creating spreadsheets.
I don't like spreadsheets. Everything else I love about my job, I also know that some
of these things are necessary. But the conversations I've had with the board is,
(36:06):
I'm a community guy. I like being out, making connections, building partnerships. I really
need to shift some of this admin stuff. I know I have to own some of it and hold some of it just
by the size of our organization. But how can, can you help me shift some of this?
And let's create a position to hold some of that. And so it's just, it's really a constant,
(36:30):
ongoing dialogue of, let's create an environment and a culture that is preventative. And that is
a focus on abundance rather than working you to the bone and then having to restore you back up.
How do we just stay here and keep going like this?
Ed, you have given so many great tips on not just how to practice curiosity in the workplace,
(36:53):
how to retain employees and make sure that they are having that joy in their work.
Now, I want to talk about how do you recruit people? How do you identify for curiosity?
Actually, I'm going to ask two questions because this is a bike shop. So do they all have to be
cyclists? Number one. And number two is what is your favorite way of identifying curiosity
(37:19):
for potential people who are going to work at BikeWorks?
Sure. I mean, I look at it as two ways. First, well, not first, but part of it is board retention
and board recruitment. We value time and talent. Board giving is not a line item.
And so because of that, we're able to identify and you don't have to be a cyclist at all.
(37:45):
You know, somebody with a youth programs, youth development, education background that is in the
98118 zip code or South Seattle. Again, we're the communities that we serve, the black and brown
communities of Seattle is finding individuals in those communities that have youth program
experience, have non-profit financial experience, have non-profit legal experience,
(38:13):
have non-profit board governance experience. And so by taking, so that's one aspect of recruiting
and the bike doesn't have to be there, but the understanding and the competence of social
justice and specifically racial equity, that is, that's centered. They have to have that.
(38:35):
And so by being very explicit about that, it tracks light-minded people and they can kind
of self-select like this is an organization that I'm interested in. They're very transparent and
very vocal and very explicit about what they do. And I can identify with that. It's easy to
identify. So that's one thing. The second in recruiting staff, this part of the country,
(38:56):
Seattle and the Northwest is a very bike centric part of the country. So it attracts bike people.
And then again, being very transparent and visible and explicit with our social justice,
racial equity focus, it allows people to see themselves in the organization.
(39:16):
And so they know what they're getting into. And again, you don't have to be a cyclist. You just
have to understand and get what our mission is and what we're doing. And so we have some staff
that are, you know, like our shop manager is a mechanical engineer and has been at BikeWorks
six years. We have people on staff that have environmental education backgrounds.
(39:45):
It's a tech backgrounds, but they get what we're trying to do and what we're trying to achieve with
the bike. And then when we're interviewing, another thing that attracts candidates is what
we're paying and the benefits back because it comes along with it. So when we're interviewing
clients or candidates, what I look for is, is it a conversation? Is it a discussion? You know,
(40:12):
back in the day, it was more of a performance. You know, you needed to be prepared and there was no
deviating from script at all. But what I look for is somebody who has the presence and the confidence
and competence and the interest to ask questions about the organization, not just what you read
off a website, but how do you address and social justice with a bicycle? You know, what are the
(40:39):
needs of Black and Brown youth today? Here's what I've learned, or here's what I've done. How do
you address that? I look for more of a conversation and dialogue where it's not off a script,
where we stop. A good indicator for me is when I stop taking notes and I just stop listening.
And I'm like, boy, there's something here where it just feels like a, like a dialogue.
(41:01):
There's a genuine interest. And the way I gauge that is through their curiosity,
their natural curiosity, not what they've learned off the website, but just what's in them as a
human being, what interests them in social justice outside of the organization, how it affects their
lives. You know, how do they deal with social justice and racial equity in their lives? What
are the conversations they're having? What do you think's going on in the world today? So it's more
(41:25):
of a discussion and that vulnerability, that curiosity is there. That's what I look for.
Hmm. So just a really great conversation. Yeah. So at last question, what is inspiring
curiosity for you in your world right now? I think turning 60.
(41:48):
Tell me more. What does that mean? I'm now that elder. So that's, so asking
myself, how do I want to be, how do I want to be in this next chapter of my life?
You know, where's my energy going? What really, I'm a, I'm a very mission-driven person.
(42:10):
You know, so, so what does that mean both personally, personally and professionally?
You know, and I also pay attention to how I feel when I am curious. I pay attention to,
to, I feel when I do feel nervous, you know I pay attention to, to, to how connected I feel.
(42:34):
When I ask a staff member who's 22, like, what'd you do this weekend? You know? And
what's next for you? I just had this wonderful conversation with a staff member just yesterday.
And I said, Hey, do you have a second? Let's go for a walk. I just want to talk to you.
(42:55):
And I could, I could see the fear in his face. And I was like, yeah, let's just go for a walk.
And he was quiet and I was like, it's looking, I was like, you're doing a good job.
You're doing a really good job. And it just opened up this amazing conversation of,
you know, he's grown up in BikeWorks programming. I don't expect him to be at BikeWorks forever.
(43:18):
And I tell staff that too. And I was like, you guys, I'm not going to be here forever. I was like,
and I don't expect you to be here forever, but so what's new, what's next for you? And if you
have ideas and you want to talk about that, you know, with me, or make sure you talk about that
with some friends or some elders in your life who, who may have done that and may have, or just
(43:39):
vetted by talking about it. And so by me saying this to him and then asking him like, what's next?
45 minutes later, you know, he's, he's like, yeah, I see myself here for another year. And then I
want to do this and I want to do that. And I was like, great. Now I know how to support you.
(44:00):
It's that transparency.
Yeah. I mean, I don't have kids, but I think the, one of the biggest parts and joy of my
job is to be able to have those conversations with, with, with staff, regardless of their age.
(44:22):
It's just, I didn't know, I didn't know I had this in me and the older I get, the more stronger that
is. So I think in some respects I should be curious with myself and pay attention to that.
Yeah.
Yeah. The practicing the inward curiosity too.
(44:43):
Yes. Yeah.
Ed, thank you so much. How do people get in touch with you?
My email is ed at bikeworks.org or bikeworks.org. Again, we're located in Columbia city in Seattle,
Washington, and you can't miss us. It's the big yellow house in the middle of Columbia city.
And you'll see a lot of people riding bikes around and that's the best way to get in touch with me.
(45:07):
Yeah. Ed, thank you so much for your insights today. I've know that the listeners have got
so many tangible tips, even just writing down, be curious. Don't take it personally. That's cool.
So thank you so much. And audience remember to practice curiosity in the world.
(45:28):
Thank you.
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