March 28, 2025 • 47 mins
What if your anxiety isn’t a flaw, but a magical message from your soul? In this episode of Curse Breakers, Jacki Smith and Storm Cestavani crack open the mystical truth behind anxiety and why it might actually be your intuition trying to get your attention.
Is anxiety a symptom or a spiritual signal? Why empaths and psychics often feel everything all the time Can anxiety be used as magical fuel instead of something to fix?
Storm shares the history of anxiety in the DSM (and why it still misses the point), while Jacki dives into how to work with anxiety in real time—without bypassing, stuffing, or numbing out. Think candles, crystals, mythic archetypes, and yes, even a little Saturn Return therapy.
Plus: The lie that anxiety is always “bad,” what digital overstimulation is really doing to your magic, and why your nervous system might just be psychic.
Listen now to turn your anxiety into a source of power.
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#AnxietyIsMagic #CurseBreakersPodcast #SpiritualAwakening #EmpathEnergy #MagicalAnxiety #WitchTok #PsychicAwareness #CandleMagic #CoventryCreations #VanVanCandle #StabilityCandle #SpiritualCleansing #EnergyHealing #IntuitiveLiving #WitchPodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
What if anxiety isn't the problem, but it's your magic trying to get your attention?
In this episode, we're unpacking the spiritual roots of anxiety, how it got mislabeled fordecades, and why your nervous system might just be psychic.
It's time to stop coping, and maybe it's time to start casting.
Welcome to Curse Breakers, where we leverage astrology to empower you.
(00:21):
I'm Jacki Smith, and I'm here with my co-host and chief astrologer, Storm Cestavani Andthis show is sponsored by Coventry Creations, where they have magical solutions to your
everyday issues.
We let the stars lead you.
Hey, Storm.
Hey, what's up?
just so many things.
So many things which we're not going to get into except for the fact that there's so manythings going on for the past 18 months that my nervous system and my anxiety are on
(00:52):
override.
I'm like, I've been, I don't know about you.
Well, I know you, you,
deal with this and we've been talking about this, but never in my life have I had to dealwith so much anxiety.
It's different.
And I find often when, you know, when you're dealing with somebody that has a diagnosableform of anxiety, like I have a diagnosable form, I have both general anxiety disorder and
(01:15):
social phobic disorder.
And I think that a lot of times, Jacki, that people that have never gone through theparticular experience of anxiety have a difficult time relating.
to what that is until they go through it themselves.
AKA me right now.
And then it's like everything becomes this full picture as to how something can begin toevolve and begin to take over an individual's life.
(01:38):
Thankfully, and I'm very, very blessed that I pretty much have both of those particulardisorders contained.
And it allows me to be a voice or...
offer some form of hope and guidance to people that may still be going through issues orstarting to go through issues in regards to anxiety because I did not deal with it in a
(02:00):
standard, everyday sort of way.
I know you didn't.
And we've talked about this over the years.
We've because we've been friends for years.
16.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was going to say it's been 20.
That's why I said because, know, who wants to?
Well, I mean, I love that we have been friends this long and we have seen each otherthrough a lot of things.
(02:24):
And so I just want to like talk about this for.
Yeah, I just want to I want to talk about.
school.
Mm-hmm.
this is so I have been in a unique position in my career, which is I have created theseinteresting friendships with people around the country and I've never met them.
Right.
Because I sell products to them and I sell emotional products to them.
(02:48):
We have deep conversations about things so that when you and I met over the phone or overthe podcasting world.
And we would have these deep conversations that never once bothered me that you hadn'tseen a picture of me, I hadn't seen a picture of you, we never met, I never thought about
meeting you.
It was not a worry of mine because that's my norm.
(03:09):
And so, you know, when there was the kerfuffle of things, I'm like, whatever.
I mean, this is my norm, I don't care.
So we've been able to...
My point is, who are you when we're interacting?
It's always been my point.
How are you showing up for me?
It's also, if you think about it, Jacki, and this is one point to make.
And this was even from metaphysically minded people.
(03:34):
If you think about, you know, when I did have my emotional breakdown in 2011, that thestandard way that people wanted me to deal with it was in the clinical model sort of way.
You know, get it over, get it done with, you know,
be resolved with this in 10 weeks.
And you had a lot of help in regards to the magical aspects in regards to it, which wasmore take its time.
(03:59):
And even your sister, Patty, I worked with in regards to my disorders.
It was more about taking its time and letting this happen and evolve naturally.
so that it was something that was authentic and something that I was comfortable with.
And I wasn't forcing things because ye old person on the other side of the internet that Ineed to impress says so.
(04:20):
And it worked out well as a result of my doing my own.
Right, because I said, what is the energy of this guy?
mean, how has he shown up for me?
How has he shown up in my life in our interactions?
what's that about?
And how have you helped me in my life?
And how have I helped you in your life?
And I was like, you know what?
We're just gonna keep rolling.
(04:41):
Really what it came down to is, and this really ties into our subject of anxiety, which isyou have always been there on the other side of the phone, on the other side of the
internet to help me unpack what's going on for me and my anxiety.
Because what's interesting in the past 18 months, and I say like, I'm like, I've never hadthis kind of anxiety, but what's
(05:05):
What's truer than not is I actually have had this anxiety.
I'm just not stuffing it anymore.
The basket's full.
I can't stuff it down anymore.
And I've become healthier through other things that I've done, magical things,disperse-tal evolution, therapy, et cetera.
(05:26):
And then the work that we've done together, it's not possible for me to stuff it anymore.
deal with it, I gotta sit in the sock and deal with it.
And so now it's just like, oh, I do have, I have always had anxiety.
You know, we talk about what things were like, say 20 years ago or 30 years ago, which ismore to the point, 40, yeah, when we were younger.
(05:49):
how was anxiety viewed then versus how it's viewed now?
And what's that difference and why does it feel like everybody and their brother istalking about their different anxiety disorders and their neural divergence and their
neurotypical and all this other stuff?
And why does it feel like everybody's got a problem?
I think that a lot of the issue is that it wasn't until, now this is a long time ago atthis particular point, until 1980, Jacki, the medical model for anxiety was not even
(06:24):
addressed.
It was just considered something that people were going through or some form of malady.
is probably the best word.
They didn't even have names for them yet.
Okay.
And it wasn't until 1980 in which in the third edition of the Diagnostic Statistic Manualof Psychology that they actually gave names to anxiety.
(06:51):
And of course now in the DSM-5, okay, that was the DSM-3, the DSM-5, you know, it is amuch more fleshed out
area of psychology than was there before.
Okay.
And the problem is, is that even in the 1980s, even though that they now had labels forthem, a lot of them were being misdiagnosed.
(07:12):
For example, you know,
hysteria.
You know, if a woman, you know, decided, you know, one day she was upset at her husband,okay, because she was sick of mopping the floor, and him trafficking in dirt all the time.
And she just said, you know what, stop this shit and went raving mad.
Okay.
That was considered, oh my god, she she's hysterical, you know, she's out of her mind.
(07:34):
And in a lot of ways, it
A lot of psychological disorders were targeted towards women.
Men didn't seem to have them back then.
Because men had to just man up.
Well, not only was it man up, but it was a sense of weakness.
But here is the thing, Jacki, in 2025, I don't think that we've evolved that much on theseissues.
(07:55):
I don't think that psychologically, even though that we have more sophisticated names forit, I don't think that we've really evolved.
Mental health, I've been saying this, you and I did an episode of Keep It Magic.
I know exactly which episode it was.
It was episode 13, okay, of the first season.
And at that particular point, I stated that we need mental health reform in the UnitedStates, okay, extreme mental health reform to fix the particular stigmas that are
(08:25):
associated with anxiety and any form of psychological disorder that people may have.
We recorded that episode in 2011.
Yeah.
now 2025.
And still the particular answer to anxiety is, and a lot of this has to do with, know,most people don't have the funds to go to a depth psychologist, which would be like a
(08:50):
Jungian analyst, and spend five years at $300 a week, okay?
They don't have the funds to be able to do that.
So they have to rely upon their insurance, okay?
which thankfully, you we have insurance.
We do, but so many people do not.
Yeah, and they get 10 sessions, Jacki, covered by their insurance company, and usually anSSRI like Lexapro or Selexa or Effexor or, you know, there's so many.
(09:19):
I mean, if I listed them all out, we'd go to sleep.
You know, sometimes you would get a benzodiazepine like Xenex or Kalanapin, and you wereoften on your way.
The problem and during those 10 sessions of therapy, which was usually either cognitivebehavioral therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy, you learn the particular triggers.
And I remember, Jacki, at that point that when I went into therapy, my therapist at thetime handed me a book.
(09:45):
And here is the irony.
The book is called Feeling Good.
Now, one of the interesting things that I'm going to tell you, which is going to kind ofshock you, is that Jung's Jung, Carl Jung, his ultimate goal of psychological health isn't
feeling good.
It's becoming whole.
And I think that that whole process of resolving the underlying issue, getting to whattype of symbols or archetypes are alive within the individual.
(10:10):
is pushed under the rug and basically what the individual is left with after those 10sessions of therapy is psychotropic medications and still feeling bad and then feeling the
shame that goes along with that.
Why am I still feeling this way?
I should be resolved.
I should be beyond this.
And it's because there is no internal work.
And it's just my feeling if you don't do the internal work, you're not going to heal fromit.
(10:32):
100%.
I'm in total agreement.
I mean, totally agree.
You know, I've been doing talk therapy for a while, which I've loved.
I've absolutely loved.
And one of the things that I think is missing from some of
closer to depth psychology by the way, talk there.
But I also think what's missing from that is like your assignments of doing the innerwork.
You can talk about the inner work.
(10:54):
I mean, you kind of talk about it, but there's like no assignments.
There's just, you're just talking about it.
And sometimes there is like things to think about or things to do a little bitdifferently.
I mean, I think to me, so to me, now I might be different because I do the inner spiritualwork.
I do healing work.
You know, I don't leave that stuff alone.
So when I talk to my therapist about these things, she's like, well, that's fascinating.
(11:17):
But that's not what typical people do.
My therapist, Jacki, the one advantage that I had with my particular therapist was on dayone, I told her I did not want to approach this through a full behavioral therapy model.
I also wanted to use a Jungian model.
(11:39):
She had no knowledge about Jung.
Luckily, I did.
Okay.
She had no but what she did is that she gave me the space to do my own thing IncludingJacki that there was a point where I had a block and I told her I said I want to do
something next week with you It's gonna be very very weird for you.
Okay, but I would like to do it now.
(11:59):
I did choose a particular deck which I Felt responded to her a little bit better.
I used in a show then tarot deck, but I brought tarot cards
and shuffled them and laid them out on her desk.
And we talked about them in a therapeutic sort of way.
So she was open to all of these things and letting me process things in this way.
I think the universe for Cindy, okay, because she gave me the space to be able to do it.
(12:21):
But most therapists like yours just think, that's an interesting way of looking at it andviewing it.
Because most of them do not have the clue.
They have...
the CBT book and the DBT book and that's their thing and most of them are social workersnot psychologists.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, yeah, and that is true.
That is true.
So what's interesting with with psychology, excuse me, anxiety today and how it's beingdealt with psychologically, I think is another thing, which is we're doing a lot of self
(12:49):
diagnosis and then taking it to our doctors or taking it to our therapists andpsychologists.
And then they're like taking our lead.
What do you think about that?
I'm conflicted about it.
I'm at a particular point, Jacki, in which I have been looking at things like the broaderscope, and it may just be my age, and that I'm at a point in which I'm more reflective
(13:10):
than I was years ago.
But I'm looking at things even in a broader context of the internet.
Is it a blessing or is it a curse?
I'm looking at things in regards to the fact that I can go to Copilot or ChatGPT or Metaor Groke or everywhere has an AI program and begin to ask it questions and get out a
(13:34):
particular spit out response which eerily enough can be highly accurate.
and then bring that into a doctor.
I will state that I was dealing with some health issues right after I had COVID and Ilooked up some stuff, Jacki, and I did bring it to my doctor and said, do you think that
this could be the possible problem?
And he looked into it.
(13:55):
So I think that we can use these things as a tool.
I don't think we should self-diagnose.
Right.
I know when I brought some of this stuff to my therapist going, do you think maybe I haveADD or maybe I'm depressed because of blah, blah, blah, blah.
And she said, and she asked me some really poignant questions.
And she said, she goes, well, and we had some lots of discussions in our session.
(14:15):
She goes, at the end of it, goes, if you can do this, this, and this, you are notchronically depressed.
You may have acute moments of depression.
and you're not ADD if you can accomplish all of these different things that you do.
And I'm like, okay.
I mean, just because I just, you know, it's been a rough couple of years.
Well, God, it's been a rough, honestly, like seven, eight years, but has it ever not?
(14:37):
Then I start thinking, has it ever not been rough?
Girl, we've been going through problems since I've known you and that's 20 years.
I know.
So I'm like, has it ever not been rough?
mean, so there was like a couple of, there was like a year of like, hey, this is great.
Look at what I'm doing.
Woo hoo hoo.
And then the tables turn because in the Tarot speak, that wheel of fortune is alwaysturning.
(14:59):
That wheel of fortune is always turning.
And I think that as I talk to folks in younger generations or just younger folks ingeneral, like, don't forget that wheel of fortune is always turning.
You're going to sit in the suck for a while and then you're going to, it's going to turn.
You just got to wait for it.
You got to watch for it to turn, not wait for it to turn, but watch for it to startturning and then, and then jump on that ride.
(15:19):
think that one of the main things, Jacki, in regards to where I have a problem with thetraditional therapeutic model is...
traditional therapy as addressed through the DSM.
And let me say, thank the heavens we have a DSM.
Okay.
But it views things like anxiety as a problem to be solved or eliminated.
(15:42):
It needs to go away.
You have to get rid of it.
Whereas the teleological or the spiritual or you have to think, although that
The DSM did not address anxiety specifically until 1980.
Jung addressed it in the 30s.
And basically, it was meant as a message to be interpreted and a necessary part of growthand transformation.
(16:08):
So anxiety in the teleological or spiritual way is a necessary part of growth ortransformation, meaning you cannot
grow or transform without it.
I love this.
Wait, I want to pause and I want you to restate that slowly for the people in the back.
Okay.
The traditional diagnostic method of dealing with anxiety is that it is a problem thatneeds to be solved or eliminated.
(16:34):
In the teleological or depth psychological or the spiritual or even I would state if Iwant to be simple, the magical, anxiety is a message to be interpreted and
a necessary part of growth or transformation, meaning you cannot grow and transformwithout it.
(16:55):
Of course.
So as you're saying this, I'm seeing this and I'm going, of course, because I've beenusing my anxiety magically.
And we'll get into that in a little bit, because that's something that in the middle ofdifferent anxiety attacks, I've been sitting with it and going, all right, what do I do
with this?
Because to me, everything has a purpose.
And that's something that I have worked with my entire magical career.
(17:19):
So I'm like,
Okay, what am I doing with this anxiety?
and one of the things that I've realized is that I cannot get through to the next layer togrow without it being highly uncomfortable.
And one of my meditations that I was sitting with, and I say meditations loosely, one ofthe times I was sitting there freaking out, AKA meditating, I had a vision of the
(17:39):
chrysalis, right?
the gooey moment where that the time frame where the that caterpillar is becoming thebutterfly and You think that caterpillar didn't have a whole bunch of anxiety I mean it
didn't really because it doesn't have the emotions, but wouldn't that be very anxietyridden while you're becoming goo and And then when you're like building new Whatever's to
(18:05):
become the
butterfly, the new structure, the new skeletal structure, the new circulatory structure.
I mean, wouldn't that be just an anxiety-ridden experience?
And then when you have to break out, because you're now feeling claustrophobic.
So I just had that vision of when I was working with my anxiety, saying, what is themessage here?
(18:29):
And it reminds me of something I read quite a while ago, and I wish I remembered where Igot this.
I got to lean over and look at it.
I put this on my wall and I keep reading it like almost every day and it says, stressarises because something incredibly important to us is at stake.
Every decision feels monumental, laden with the weight of our dreams and aspirations.
(18:50):
And so when I start that like, freak out, I lean over and I look at that and I'm like,okay, this is important.
Something's coming up.
These decisions feel really weighty because they're
They're about my dreams and aspirations, so it's okay.
I'm doing something important.
I can turn that into a psychological statement, Jacki, that particular quote, which is,anxiety is a signal from the unconscious that something within the psyche seeks
(19:16):
integration or conscious recognition.
Now, as a depth psychologist, okay, what I would do in regards to, say for example, youwere to come to me for therapy, Yeah.
Well, you know, that's our conversations.
our conversations, okay?
You've come to me and you're talking about, you know, this whole caterpillar thing, okay?
What I would give you probably as an assignment, okay?
(19:38):
Because I like giving people busy work.
I learned that from my fourth grade math teacher, so I just have gone with it.
Give them busy work.
Is I would tell you to spend some time and maybe use something like ChatGPT or, you know,any other AI program.
and just type into it, could you give me a list of myths that have to do withtransformation?
Specifically, I am imagining a caterpillar turning into a butterfly.
(20:03):
Hit enter and get a list of the myths.
Now, here is the thing.
One is gonna stand out to you, and I will tell you why.
When I was doing my work, okay, the myth that stood out to me, and it still stands out tome, and it's one that I work with.
regularly, Jacki, is the myth of Perseus and Medusa.
And I work with it a lot.
(20:23):
And the reason being is that the particular type of disorder I have has to do withfreezing somebody into place.
They're now frozen to stone.
They can't move.
They can't make movement.
And basically, what it has to do with the Medusa is an archetype of paralyzing fear.
OK.
And basically, how I worked with it, Jacki, is that it wasn't looking at the Medusastraight on.
(20:47):
It was looking at her myth and looking at the story involved with it in a creative way.
But starting to look at it sideways, because I'm not gazing right at her.
I'm now looking at it sideways.
I'm now reflecting inwardly.
I have a statement when I talk about Perseus and Medusa about
You know, and you even know Jacki that I have a crystal that is the Medusa.
(21:09):
That when I'm working with it Jacki, I think to myself, okay, Percy has used a mirroredshield.
When you go look in a mirror, what do you see?
You.
Okay.
So what is going on in that particular way?
And when you're working with looking at anxiety sideways, you can journal it, dream it,draw it.
(21:29):
And by working at it with psychological distance, you're no longer consumed by it.
But I would recommend that working with myths that have to do with transformation.
And there's many.
Yeah, I can totally see that.
can see, and you love working with myths.
so, and what I, what's interesting.
tell me that you'll read an article of mine and say, this stuff is your superpower.
(21:51):
It totally is.
And then I can also see modern myths, which is what we watch on TV.
You know, the Marvel comics, the Marvel universe, or even supernatural kind of thing.
And they're all taken from ancient myths.
But I can...
with one Loki at a time.
Multiples is just crazy.
just crazy, but I can see like diving into that and saying, where do I fit in that?
(22:13):
Because that's all the Jungian archetypes too, right?
I mean, in the end, we have a play going on in our subconscious and we're that characterin that play.
So if we can figure...
Jacki, are in any form of a story, whether it be Lord of the Rings or General Hospital,okay?
Myths are alive and well in all of them because they're stories.
(22:34):
And, you know, there is not much difference between Psyche and Eros and Luke and Laura.
Oh my god, you're dating us.
You are dating us so far back.
So far back.
And the people who know who Luke and Laura are, you need to up your life insurance.
So going back to this is one of the things that I talk about a lot is like, what's thestory playing in your head?
(23:01):
What is...
There is a story going on in your subconscious that you're a character in and then youcontinue to cast the characters with people in your life to continue to recreate that
story, which is Going back to that myth.
So in your anxiety You will continue to play that out over and over again if you don'tlike take it and say what is
(23:26):
the myth or the story that's continuing to play out.
And there's ways that you can move through this if you can spend, slow down and tap intoyour subconscious or unconscious.
And there's different ways to do that.
But one of the things I was thinking about when we were getting ready for the show, lastnight I was sitting there and I actually had some quiet time where
(23:49):
Yikes.
Yikes.
right.
But it was purposeful.
I turned off all, well, except for the typewriter, the laptop I was typing on.
But it was very focused on a thing.
But I didn't have any TV on.
I didn't have any music on.
didn't have multiple technology streams going into my head.
(24:10):
And I slowed down and I started thinking about what I used to do.
when I was younger, before I had a cell phone to be in constant touch with people, beforeI had Google, before I could do the internet and social media and take my moments of
anxiety and reach out and make sure I could touch someone or be part of something, when Ihad to sit in my own soul.
(24:34):
And like, what did I used to do?
So,
when I had to slow down my life and let my soul catch up.
And I think that becomes, so when I did this.
know what I did.
I was reading Homer.
Yeah, well, were, and then you were learning the stories, but I did things like listeningto a full album, whether it was, I didn't have vinyl, but I would have a cassette or a CD.
(24:59):
listen from the beginning to the end and you read the liner notes.
But that was an experience with music that I think is completely lost now.
yeah, and then, I would go to a bookstore by myself and I would explore.
that was, there was pre-Borders days, if you knew what Borders was, or pre-Barnes andNobles days, pre-giant bookstore days.
(25:22):
And it would be a smaller bookstore.
And so it was really an exploration of that, a lot of indie bookstores, an exploration of
that owner and what's that owner's interest and specialty and learning about that.
I also would go to a coffee shop and journal, write poetry, take my tarot deck and pull acard and dive into that or learn about connect with an herb.
(25:44):
Like I didn't have, I had one, maybe two books on herbs and cause there wasn't a plethoralike there is today.
And I would like, I would sit at home and I would
pull out that chamomile and put it in my hand and go, hey chamomile, what are you about?
Because there was space to do that and there was space to listen to your own head andlisten to the subconscious and listen to, and sometimes it's great and sometimes it's
(26:09):
dangerous.
mean, but that there was a slowness that is missing today and I don't want to sound likean old person that goes back in my day.
We didn't have to rush around, but I know I'm post-55.
mean, was something.
It's called Saturn, you the golden years, you know.
Back when I was a kid, you know, that's what you're doing.
(26:30):
You're going back to the golden years, which is a myth.
right, the golden years are a myth.
But giving my subconscious and my intuition space to talk to me, and that's my lessonright now, and maybe that's because of that post-Saturn return, is going, you know what, I
need that space for my intuition to talk to me.
(26:52):
I haven't.
No, no, no, no, no, no, You will not have your Saturn return again until it starts in May.
Wait, wait, it didn't happen.
I thought it, I thought it.
No, you're going to be starting to go through it when we get into, when Saturn moves intoAries.
Saturn is in Aries in your chart.
FML.
So now I'm going to do some therapy on Jacki.
(27:14):
We'll be back in a minute.
So, this is, love and hate astrology.
right, and just so you know, this whole therapy thing is not one-sided.
It's not, because there's plenty of years when it was two-sided.
(27:35):
It's just my turn.
Yeah.
So just kind of going back to that.
have my Saturn return again for a few years.
It's not until Saturn moves into Taurus.
Then it'll be your turn.
Anyway, I think that's good news though.
Now that I'm thinking about my Saturn return and my Saturn moving into Aries and what mylife was like then, I think that's good news.
the way that you can work with that actively, Jacki, is to sit down and write what wasgoing on in your life 29 years ago.
(28:00):
And even though the cast of characters may be different and the landscape may look alittle bit different, this season of Grey's Anatomy is going to look like a previous
season of Grey's Anatomy.
It's going to be the same themes that are going to be brought up.
It's just going to be dressed in a different outfit.
So that's the way that you can do it, is really take a look at.
you know, what was going on, you know, in 1996.
(28:25):
Yeah.
Well, it was about to be born.
So, yes, good stuff.
It was a lot of interesting, good changes in my life.
Cleared a lot of stuff out.
at the anxieties and the difficulties that you were going through at that particularpoint, not only personally becoming a new mother in the anxiety of that, but also
business-wise and relationship-wise, compared to 29 years later in which relationshipshave taken on a new dimension.
(28:51):
Luckily enough, you're still with the same person.
Yoo-hoo!
but that relationship is gonna take on a different layer and a different level.
your Saturn is in your seventh house.
So starting to deal with issues and restrictions in regards to partnership, okay?
And all of the things that that brings out is going to be triggered.
Also Saturn is in opposition to most of your stuff in Virgo, okay?
(29:16):
So it's going to be forcing...
you to become more conscious of who you are as an individual.
So there's your therapy session.
Everybody got a live.
Yeah.
and you're welcome.
but going back to that whole, you know, slowing down and then I think that's part of that.
So you can hear what the anxiety is about because that I think is the lie of anxiety thatyou have to get rid of it.
(29:41):
Like going back to what you said that you have to get rid of it versus understanding thatit's a message for you.
It's usable.
Yes, what is this trying to teach me?
Which is why I tell people to work with it creatively.
Because oftentimes you can't look straight forward at it, Jacki, and attack it like, youknow, your Hercules, okay?
(30:02):
You have to look at it from the side.
You have to look at it in a different capacity.
And it's where I think...
One of the questions I was going to ask you actually, Jacki, is do you think that peoplethat are more magically aware or more spiritually aware or even, you know, for example, if
you listen to a Christian, you know, they're always being attacked by the devil in one wayor another.
(30:26):
You know, they're under attack constantly.
Do you think if somebody takes on a spiritual path, let me put it that way, do you thinkthat it may
these things and is the anxiety actually serving some form of other purpose, whether it bespiritual or intuitive or just growth oriented?
Yeah, I think it's a it depends on the it is so unique to the person that when somebody isstepping into their spiritual path, it also depends on where they are in their hierarchy
(30:55):
of needs, to be honest with you.
So are they is their anxiety based in, my God, I don't have enough food to eat.
You know, I'm hungry or I'm lonely.
Or am I actually spiritually evolving?
So I think we step into a spiritual path for, in essence, a goal to become closer todivinity, to become an evolved human.
(31:18):
Like you said, what did Jung say?
It's not to become happy, it's to become whole.
And I think that's why we step into a spiritual path, is to become whole, because we feelfractured.
and anxiety can help us feel fractured.
And if that's all we know and we find ways to mask that or medicate that, then that'senough for us.
(31:39):
And then stepping in, and people who step into a spiritual path, it depends on where theyare, because there's plenty of people that I know that have stepped into a spiritual path
that stay in that fractured state.
And they stay in that those, I don't want to say lower, but,
in the hierarchy of needs, they stay in that physiological need or the protection need.
(31:59):
They're always in a state of crisis being attacked.
You know, currently we're going through a lot of stuff astrologically.
As we're recording this, we're in eclipse season.
We had a lunar eclipse a week and a half ago.
We're going to have a solar eclipse this coming weekend.
Venus is retrograde.
Mercury is retrograde.
The sun has now moved into Aries.
A lot of planets, Venus and Mercury, are going to move back into Pisces.
(32:23):
And one of the things that I'm seeing, and it's one of the things that I'm questioningbecause I did go through a little bit, not for long, I can stop it at this particular
point, but this weekend, Jacki, I started to go through a little bit of anxiety.
And I stopped myself and said, why am I feeling anxious about this?
And it had a lot to do with...
a lot of people being at odds with one another and a lot of people feeding each otherstories in certain sorts of ways and amplifying them and being antagonistic.
(32:54):
And then I just finally said, you know what, I'm not participating in that energy.
There is a time in which you have to cut it off.
it led to the moment that I decided I'm not going to participate in this, the answers andthe solution started to come through Jacki and I was able to
bridge some things to calm some things down.
But it's still triggering.
(33:18):
I think that this is all that I'm just going to be blunt and direct because you know thatthat's my way.
Get the hell off of Facebook.
Stay off of Twitter.
You do not need to be on Instagram and TikTok all day.
Go live your life.
Don't live your life online.
Stop it.
a similar vein, so wait, before I go into the similar vein, you had a question at thebeginning of that.
(33:42):
What my question was about, do you think that you answered it, which you did feel thatpeople that were spiritually attuned or spiritually aware do have a heightened sense of
being more sensitive to anxiety?
Yeah, well, okay, also, so they're spiritually aware and then they're psychically aware.
Those are two different things.
I think psychically aware is when your psychic senses are opened up, which might bewhatever your clair is, clairvoyant, clairsentient, clairaudience, et cetera.
(34:07):
And so if your clair is open...
And you may be a triple offender.
But if your psychic senses are open, then that can create a lot of anxiety.
If they're just riding roughshod on you, like, woohoo, this is the Wild West of goingeverywhere with your psychic senses open, which I've done that when I first learned to
(34:28):
really open up my psychic senses as a young adult.
I was like, what's going on?
And I really had a...
hard time understanding where I ended and other people began, especially in the empathicthing.
And then I learned...
Yeah.
And then I learned...
And then I learned to shut that shit down.
The issue, and this is when I was working with Patty, who is Jacki's sister by the way,part of Coventry also, but I worked with her and one of the things that came up, which I
(34:57):
had not even really considered Jacki up to that point, you know, I had enough problems todeal with, you know, being Claire Voyne, Claire Audien, Claire Sandien.
But when she said, Storm, the feeling in the issue here is that
is that you're actually also an empath.
And then I had to go, you know me, I then have to read 14 books and really analyze whatthe heck this is.
from a psychological perspective, a lot of people that are empaths, Jacki, are justconstantly exposed and open to the collective.
(35:24):
So what is pouring through them is no longer them, it's now just the collective.
And all of the particular energies at the Memo Inc.
Collective, much of which are very disturbing, that's all you have to do is look at thenews, starts to filter through the individual and then we attempt to personalize it.
And it's that personalization that I think causes the anxiety and causes people problems.
(35:46):
Yeah.
Yes.
Because the, so the empathic abilities also, I think, opens up intuition.
if you're, when you're, when you're spiritually growing, you, I think you naturally openup your empathy because you're naturally opening up compassion.
You're connecting with divine, you know, that naturally opens up and then intuition opensup.
(36:07):
And then if you start getting these intuitive and empathic hits,
and you don't have the framework to interpret it, you know, there's a disturbance in theforce and I don't know what to do with this.
And there's a restlessness that happens which then can cause anxiety.
there's, I remember, actually this happened to me last night, to be honest with you.
There's something that I needed to do that I couldn't do and I felt that there wassomething wrong.
(36:30):
And there was something wrong and I couldn't do anything about it.
And I couldn't help the person that,
it was wrong with and I just was like, I was vibrating with this and someone I dearly loveand so I just had to, I was like, that's what it is.
That's what's going on.
They're going through a process that I cannot change for them.
(36:51):
I cannot help them with.
I cannot hold their hand or make it easier.
So I just had to let it go.
I had to surrender it.
I had to surrender it to the divine and say, as much as I want to help this person, Ican't and I can't take this on.
And which felt, dis-compassionate, is that a word?
(37:13):
No, it is no.
It felt almost cruel to say, I can't help you with this.
And, but it was self-care, which is another thing that triggers me when people talk aboutself-care, because I don't think it, it doesn't mean what people think it means.
But, so that can be really weird.
can create, it was creating anxiety for me, like I was doing something wrong.
(37:36):
And it was, it was like an empathic overload.
And I was watching this,
video Reels because that's what I do on social media.
I watch Reels and which I need to
but they're all now cleaning reels and they're really starting to agitate me because Imean I'm getting triggered by people pouring huge volumes of product on their floor and
(37:56):
scrubbing it.
It's starting to trigger me.
So I had to stop.
cleaning reels and they're putting all kinds of cleaning products which are unnecessary.
Like I'm putting Fantastic and Clark's Cleanup and this and that and that and like youonly needed one.
What's the problem with?
And I'm starting to look at this and saying, this person is going to have COPD in a year.
(38:18):
Exactly.
Or like you're about to mix some chemicals that should not be mixed.
Anyway.
straight on the floor.
I'm just like, or you see people mop Jacki and there is so much fricking water on thisfloor that you're thinking to yourself, what is happening to the baseboards underneath all
of this mess?
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna go into a whole crazy, we're gonna have anxiety.
(38:40):
Right.
So I'm watching this reel of this woman and she was doing one of those splits or reactionsor somebody was doing a reaction with her and she was talking about how she thinks that
some, not all, but some neurodivergent people are actually highly sensitive empaths andpsychics who are not trained.
(39:02):
They don't know that that's what's happening.
and they're picking up on other people's emotions, they're picking up on energies of theroom, of something that has happened or might happen in the room.
It's unfiltered psychic energy.
Which is interesting because Patti and I were just having that conversation earlier in theday.
Okay, hello NSA, listening to us on our phones.
And I'm like, this was just our conversation.
(39:24):
I was like, that is fascinating.
And this woman actually...
verbalized it perfectly from what Patti and I were talking about.
So I was like, you know, this is, this is it.
This is the, this is why I use my van van candle and, and spray frequently.
what I want to talk to you about actually at this point is, is what can we do magically?
mean, clearly, okay, anxiety levels are at an epidemic now, you know, there's techstimulation, there's the constant alert and pings.
(39:53):
Social media, actually, the algorithms are created to trigger you.
There's post 2020 trauma.
There's global destabilization.
There's a mindset of scarcity.
There is economic pressure.
There is, I seen, I was reading something about gig economy burnout, which I don't evenknow what that is, but, but you know, it's a thing now.
(40:22):
What?
A term that I just learned, wait, where did it go?
We'll get back to it.
But it was this whole surveillance, what do they call it?
Surveillance capitalism.
That is where everything you're doing is being, what you said is like, we're beingsurveilled all the time.
Mm-hmm.
That's the thing I was like, hello, NSA listening on our phone.
(40:43):
It's all of our every click scroll ping voice input is tracked and sold.
Yeah.
So that, that surveillance capitalism, I was like, there's a term.
So now I know.
Um, and, gig economy burnout.
Um, so, so there is a digital detox I do.
(41:03):
And, and my friends, it involves you.
walking away from your digital, including TV.
it like, well, now it might be, so for me, my digital detox actually involves some music.
So I don't include that.
I just let the music play.
That was a song by Saint Shannon, by the way.
It went to number 16 on the Billboard charts in 1983.
(41:27):
Now, let the music play.
were you making up when I went to the charts or did you know that off the top of yourhead?
that's so funny.
That's your savant moment.
But so your digital detox is really just some cleansing for yourself.
You know, you can use Van Van or spiritual cleansing candles or spray.
But I like candles because what you can do is you can.
(41:49):
Like literally take the candle before you light it and run it through your aura to pick upthis anxiety energy.
It's like a buzzing, you know, and you just kind of pick it up or tell that energy likewhere to go into the candle and then you light the candle and then you use the stability
(42:10):
candle or a grounding candle and you have that and then you have a protection candle.
to then create a layer of protection around you.
you're pulling the energy out that's causing the vibration around you that's not natural.
Then you're grounding your energy.
So you're pulling up really nice earth energy, which is natural.
(42:30):
So you're refilling it with natural energy.
And then you're creating a protection shield around you.
So that's my little digital detox.
Right.
In my circumstance, Jacki, that's all I would do is use the sun candle.
That's why we call this show Curse Breakers.
You know, I'd use a sun candle because it deals with all of those particular issues.
And a major figure in one of the biggest myths of anxiety, which is from a book which iscalled the Orestia, Apollo is one of the major figures, which is the sun god, and it is
(42:58):
through him that you break curses.
So, and anxiety is definitely right up there.
So, yeah, getting, and there is something with the sun candle and the citronella, Ibelieve, in that candle.
And it helps to cleanse.
If you think about it, citrus has been used in cleansing since the beginning of time.
(43:20):
Yes.
So it helps to cleanse and purify and bring things into a natural state of wholeness.
Exactly, and if you think about citrus, it's round, it's colors of the sun, well an orangeis kind of like the color of the sun, but it's very sun oriented.
Well yeah, whatever, but it's kind of there-ish.
(43:42):
There's one more thing that I use, I actually use anxiety in my magic.
They say don't do magic when you're full of anxious energy, and so one day when I'msitting there going, okay, I need to do this thing.
I need to move the needle forward on this thing, but I'm filled with anxiety.
So I'm meditating for reals, not for reals, but for real.
I'm actually meditating.
(44:04):
Right.
I'm actually doing an active meditation where I'm grounding and centering, knowing thatI'm filled with anxiety and I'm asking my divine allies to help me with this.
And the message I got was use your anxiety.
Use it.
This is actually untapped energy.
So this is something that you're about to transform and transition, and this is the energythat you need to use to do it.
(44:29):
And so I used it.
I pulled it up into my hands and I used it to charge the thing, because I used it totransform.
I transformed that energy into something else and I used it.
So when you're feeling really anxious,
taking that time to tune in and saying, what is this anxiety about?
Is it nervousness about the future?
Okay, get in the present moment.
Is it untapped energy?
(44:51):
Okay.
Is it reading the room and you don't know what to do with it?
Okay, but there's not a one size fits all.
You could be in an energetic overload and you got to dump it back into the earth.
So you'd be an intuition hit and you got to go, there's a disturbance in the force.
Yeah.
I've gotten anxious when there's a spirit in the room and I'm like, I'm freaking outwhat's going on.
(45:13):
And then when I tune in, not that spirit, but there was a different, it's a spirit thatbelonged to somebody else and they were too close to me.
And so I got an anxiety hit because it wasn't my energy.
So it could be a lot of different things.
So it's not one size fits all.
(45:33):
Exactly.
And we are now done.
We're done.
I want to remind everybody, if you have not already done so, do so, is make sure that you,on the show note page, there will be a link to our calendar in which all of the astrology
is delivered to your, whatever apps that you're using or, you know, whatever calendarsthat you happen to have.
(45:54):
So you can stay up to date on all of the astrological trends and conditions.
and the Cosmic Weather Forecast all of the time.
So you can go to anywhere in the show notes and find a link to that and make sure that yousubscribe to it.
This show, of course, is sponsored by Coventry Creations.
If you have a problem in your life, regardless of what that problem is, we have a candlefor that.
(46:14):
So make sure that you go and get you plenty of spiritual tools to help you.
And we mentioned several during the show, so you can find them all at Coventry.
Also, Jacki, where can people find you?
You can find me on all the socials, if you're back on social after you've done yourdigital detox under Coventry Creations or Coventry Candles.
You can find me all of those places.
And you can find me at Storms Estavani pretty much everywhere except Facebook.
(46:38):
On Facebook, I'm facebook.com forward slash astrogossip because I like to talk aboutastrology and Jacki, what do they need to do before we come back whenever that's gonna be?
Yes.
on wherever you're listening, whatever platform, including YouTube, subscribe to our show,like and follow.
It helps other people find this show too.
(46:59):
And so we really appreciate it.
The more followers we have, the more people that can find us.
And in the meantime, whatever you do, keep it magic.
It's Big Life everybody, we'll see you soon.
What if anxiety isn't the problem, but it's your magic trying to get your attention?
In this episode, we're unpacking the spiritual roots of anxiety, how it got mislabeled fordecades, and why your nervous system might just be psychic.
It's time to stop coping, and maybe it's time to start casting.
Welcome to Curse Breakers, where we leverage astrology to empower you.
(00:21):
I'm Jacki Smith, and I'm here with my co-host and chief astrologer, Storm Cestavani Andthis show is sponsored by Coventry Creations, where they have magical solutions to your
everyday issues.
We let the stars lead you.
Hey, Storm.
Hey, what's up?
just so many things.
So many things which we're not going to get into except for the fact that there's so manythings going on for the past 18 months that my nervous system and my anxiety are on
(00:52):
override.
I'm like, I've been, I don't know about you.
Well, I know you, you,
deal with this and we've been talking about this, but never in my life have I had to dealwith so much anxiety.
It's different.
And I find often when, you know, when you're dealing with somebody that has a diagnosableform of anxiety, like I have a diagnosable form, I have both general anxiety disorder and
(01:15):
social phobic disorder.
And I think that a lot of times, Jacki, that people that have never gone through theparticular experience of anxiety have a difficult time relating.
to what that is until they go through it themselves.
AKA me right now.
And then it's like everything becomes this full picture as to how something can begin toevolve and begin to take over an individual's life.
(01:38):
Thankfully, and I'm very, very blessed that I pretty much have both of those particulardisorders contained.
And it allows me to be a voice or...
offer some form of hope and guidance to people that may still be going through issues orstarting to go through issues in regards to anxiety because I did not deal with it in a
(02:00):
standard, everyday sort of way.
I know you didn't.
And we've talked about this over the years.
We've because we've been friends for years.
16.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was going to say it's been 20.
That's why I said because, know, who wants to?
Well, I mean, I love that we have been friends this long and we have seen each otherthrough a lot of things.
(02:24):
And so I just want to like talk about this for.
Yeah, I just want to I want to talk about.
school.
Mm-hmm.
this is so I have been in a unique position in my career, which is I have created theseinteresting friendships with people around the country and I've never met them.
Right.
Because I sell products to them and I sell emotional products to them.
(02:48):
We have deep conversations about things so that when you and I met over the phone or overthe podcasting world.
And we would have these deep conversations that never once bothered me that you hadn'tseen a picture of me, I hadn't seen a picture of you, we never met, I never thought about
meeting you.
It was not a worry of mine because that's my norm.
(03:09):
And so, you know, when there was the kerfuffle of things, I'm like, whatever.
I mean, this is my norm, I don't care.
So we've been able to...
My point is, who are you when we're interacting?
It's always been my point.
How are you showing up for me?
It's also, if you think about it, Jacki, and this is one point to make.
And this was even from metaphysically minded people.
(03:34):
If you think about, you know, when I did have my emotional breakdown in 2011, that thestandard way that people wanted me to deal with it was in the clinical model sort of way.
You know, get it over, get it done with, you know,
be resolved with this in 10 weeks.
And you had a lot of help in regards to the magical aspects in regards to it, which wasmore take its time.
(03:59):
And even your sister, Patty, I worked with in regards to my disorders.
It was more about taking its time and letting this happen and evolve naturally.
so that it was something that was authentic and something that I was comfortable with.
And I wasn't forcing things because ye old person on the other side of the internet that Ineed to impress says so.
(04:20):
And it worked out well as a result of my doing my own.
Right, because I said, what is the energy of this guy?
mean, how has he shown up for me?
How has he shown up in my life in our interactions?
what's that about?
And how have you helped me in my life?
And how have I helped you in your life?
And I was like, you know what?
We're just gonna keep rolling.
(04:41):
Really what it came down to is, and this really ties into our subject of anxiety, which isyou have always been there on the other side of the phone, on the other side of the
internet to help me unpack what's going on for me and my anxiety.
Because what's interesting in the past 18 months, and I say like, I'm like, I've never hadthis kind of anxiety, but what's
(05:05):
What's truer than not is I actually have had this anxiety.
I'm just not stuffing it anymore.
The basket's full.
I can't stuff it down anymore.
And I've become healthier through other things that I've done, magical things,disperse-tal evolution, therapy, et cetera.
(05:26):
And then the work that we've done together, it's not possible for me to stuff it anymore.
deal with it, I gotta sit in the sock and deal with it.
And so now it's just like, oh, I do have, I have always had anxiety.
You know, we talk about what things were like, say 20 years ago or 30 years ago, which ismore to the point, 40, yeah, when we were younger.
(05:49):
how was anxiety viewed then versus how it's viewed now?
And what's that difference and why does it feel like everybody and their brother istalking about their different anxiety disorders and their neural divergence and their
neurotypical and all this other stuff?
And why does it feel like everybody's got a problem?
I think that a lot of the issue is that it wasn't until, now this is a long time ago atthis particular point, until 1980, Jacki, the medical model for anxiety was not even
(06:24):
addressed.
It was just considered something that people were going through or some form of malady.
is probably the best word.
They didn't even have names for them yet.
Okay.
And it wasn't until 1980 in which in the third edition of the Diagnostic Statistic Manualof Psychology that they actually gave names to anxiety.
(06:51):
And of course now in the DSM-5, okay, that was the DSM-3, the DSM-5, you know, it is amuch more fleshed out
area of psychology than was there before.
Okay.
And the problem is, is that even in the 1980s, even though that they now had labels forthem, a lot of them were being misdiagnosed.
(07:12):
For example, you know,
hysteria.
You know, if a woman, you know, decided, you know, one day she was upset at her husband,okay, because she was sick of mopping the floor, and him trafficking in dirt all the time.
And she just said, you know what, stop this shit and went raving mad.
Okay.
That was considered, oh my god, she she's hysterical, you know, she's out of her mind.
(07:34):
And in a lot of ways, it
A lot of psychological disorders were targeted towards women.
Men didn't seem to have them back then.
Because men had to just man up.
Well, not only was it man up, but it was a sense of weakness.
But here is the thing, Jacki, in 2025, I don't think that we've evolved that much on theseissues.
(07:55):
I don't think that psychologically, even though that we have more sophisticated names forit, I don't think that we've really evolved.
Mental health, I've been saying this, you and I did an episode of Keep It Magic.
I know exactly which episode it was.
It was episode 13, okay, of the first season.
And at that particular point, I stated that we need mental health reform in the UnitedStates, okay, extreme mental health reform to fix the particular stigmas that are
(08:25):
associated with anxiety and any form of psychological disorder that people may have.
We recorded that episode in 2011.
Yeah.
now 2025.
And still the particular answer to anxiety is, and a lot of this has to do with, know,most people don't have the funds to go to a depth psychologist, which would be like a
(08:50):
Jungian analyst, and spend five years at $300 a week, okay?
They don't have the funds to be able to do that.
So they have to rely upon their insurance, okay?
which thankfully, you we have insurance.
We do, but so many people do not.
Yeah, and they get 10 sessions, Jacki, covered by their insurance company, and usually anSSRI like Lexapro or Selexa or Effexor or, you know, there's so many.
(09:19):
I mean, if I listed them all out, we'd go to sleep.
You know, sometimes you would get a benzodiazepine like Xenex or Kalanapin, and you wereoften on your way.
The problem and during those 10 sessions of therapy, which was usually either cognitivebehavioral therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy, you learn the particular triggers.
And I remember, Jacki, at that point that when I went into therapy, my therapist at thetime handed me a book.
(09:45):
And here is the irony.
The book is called Feeling Good.
Now, one of the interesting things that I'm going to tell you, which is going to kind ofshock you, is that Jung's Jung, Carl Jung, his ultimate goal of psychological health isn't
feeling good.
It's becoming whole.
And I think that that whole process of resolving the underlying issue, getting to whattype of symbols or archetypes are alive within the individual.
(10:10):
is pushed under the rug and basically what the individual is left with after those 10sessions of therapy is psychotropic medications and still feeling bad and then feeling the
shame that goes along with that.
Why am I still feeling this way?
I should be resolved.
I should be beyond this.
And it's because there is no internal work.
And it's just my feeling if you don't do the internal work, you're not going to heal fromit.
(10:32):
100%.
I'm in total agreement.
I mean, totally agree.
You know, I've been doing talk therapy for a while, which I've loved.
I've absolutely loved.
And one of the things that I think is missing from some of
closer to depth psychology by the way, talk there.
But I also think what's missing from that is like your assignments of doing the innerwork.
You can talk about the inner work.
(10:54):
I mean, you kind of talk about it, but there's like no assignments.
There's just, you're just talking about it.
And sometimes there is like things to think about or things to do a little bitdifferently.
I mean, I think to me, so to me, now I might be different because I do the inner spiritualwork.
I do healing work.
You know, I don't leave that stuff alone.
So when I talk to my therapist about these things, she's like, well, that's fascinating.
(11:17):
But that's not what typical people do.
My therapist, Jacki, the one advantage that I had with my particular therapist was on dayone, I told her I did not want to approach this through a full behavioral therapy model.
I also wanted to use a Jungian model.
(11:39):
She had no knowledge about Jung.
Luckily, I did.
Okay.
She had no but what she did is that she gave me the space to do my own thing IncludingJacki that there was a point where I had a block and I told her I said I want to do
something next week with you It's gonna be very very weird for you.
Okay, but I would like to do it now.
(11:59):
I did choose a particular deck which I Felt responded to her a little bit better.
I used in a show then tarot deck, but I brought tarot cards
and shuffled them and laid them out on her desk.
And we talked about them in a therapeutic sort of way.
So she was open to all of these things and letting me process things in this way.
I think the universe for Cindy, okay, because she gave me the space to be able to do it.
(12:21):
But most therapists like yours just think, that's an interesting way of looking at it andviewing it.
Because most of them do not have the clue.
They have...
the CBT book and the DBT book and that's their thing and most of them are social workersnot psychologists.
Yeah.
Yeah, well, yeah, and that is true.
That is true.
So what's interesting with with psychology, excuse me, anxiety today and how it's beingdealt with psychologically, I think is another thing, which is we're doing a lot of self
(12:49):
diagnosis and then taking it to our doctors or taking it to our therapists andpsychologists.
And then they're like taking our lead.
What do you think about that?
I'm conflicted about it.
I'm at a particular point, Jacki, in which I have been looking at things like the broaderscope, and it may just be my age, and that I'm at a point in which I'm more reflective
(13:10):
than I was years ago.
But I'm looking at things even in a broader context of the internet.
Is it a blessing or is it a curse?
I'm looking at things in regards to the fact that I can go to Copilot or ChatGPT or Metaor Groke or everywhere has an AI program and begin to ask it questions and get out a
(13:34):
particular spit out response which eerily enough can be highly accurate.
and then bring that into a doctor.
I will state that I was dealing with some health issues right after I had COVID and Ilooked up some stuff, Jacki, and I did bring it to my doctor and said, do you think that
this could be the possible problem?
And he looked into it.
(13:55):
So I think that we can use these things as a tool.
I don't think we should self-diagnose.
Right.
I know when I brought some of this stuff to my therapist going, do you think maybe I haveADD or maybe I'm depressed because of blah, blah, blah, blah.
And she said, and she asked me some really poignant questions.
And she said, she goes, well, and we had some lots of discussions in our session.
(14:15):
She goes, at the end of it, goes, if you can do this, this, and this, you are notchronically depressed.
You may have acute moments of depression.
and you're not ADD if you can accomplish all of these different things that you do.
And I'm like, okay.
I mean, just because I just, you know, it's been a rough couple of years.
Well, God, it's been a rough, honestly, like seven, eight years, but has it ever not?
(14:37):
Then I start thinking, has it ever not been rough?
Girl, we've been going through problems since I've known you and that's 20 years.
I know.
So I'm like, has it ever not been rough?
mean, so there was like a couple of, there was like a year of like, hey, this is great.
Look at what I'm doing.
Woo hoo hoo.
And then the tables turn because in the Tarot speak, that wheel of fortune is alwaysturning.
(14:59):
That wheel of fortune is always turning.
And I think that as I talk to folks in younger generations or just younger folks ingeneral, like, don't forget that wheel of fortune is always turning.
You're going to sit in the suck for a while and then you're going to, it's going to turn.
You just got to wait for it.
You got to watch for it to turn, not wait for it to turn, but watch for it to startturning and then, and then jump on that ride.
(15:19):
think that one of the main things, Jacki, in regards to where I have a problem with thetraditional therapeutic model is...
traditional therapy as addressed through the DSM.
And let me say, thank the heavens we have a DSM.
Okay.
But it views things like anxiety as a problem to be solved or eliminated.
(15:42):
It needs to go away.
You have to get rid of it.
Whereas the teleological or the spiritual or you have to think, although that
The DSM did not address anxiety specifically until 1980.
Jung addressed it in the 30s.
And basically, it was meant as a message to be interpreted and a necessary part of growthand transformation.
(16:08):
So anxiety in the teleological or spiritual way is a necessary part of growth ortransformation, meaning you cannot
grow or transform without it.
I love this.
Wait, I want to pause and I want you to restate that slowly for the people in the back.
Okay.
The traditional diagnostic method of dealing with anxiety is that it is a problem thatneeds to be solved or eliminated.
(16:34):
In the teleological or depth psychological or the spiritual or even I would state if Iwant to be simple, the magical, anxiety is a message to be interpreted and
a necessary part of growth or transformation, meaning you cannot grow and transformwithout it.
(16:55):
Of course.
So as you're saying this, I'm seeing this and I'm going, of course, because I've beenusing my anxiety magically.
And we'll get into that in a little bit, because that's something that in the middle ofdifferent anxiety attacks, I've been sitting with it and going, all right, what do I do
with this?
Because to me, everything has a purpose.
And that's something that I have worked with my entire magical career.
(17:19):
So I'm like,
Okay, what am I doing with this anxiety?
and one of the things that I've realized is that I cannot get through to the next layer togrow without it being highly uncomfortable.
And one of my meditations that I was sitting with, and I say meditations loosely, one ofthe times I was sitting there freaking out, AKA meditating, I had a vision of the
(17:39):
chrysalis, right?
the gooey moment where that the time frame where the that caterpillar is becoming thebutterfly and You think that caterpillar didn't have a whole bunch of anxiety I mean it
didn't really because it doesn't have the emotions, but wouldn't that be very anxietyridden while you're becoming goo and And then when you're like building new Whatever's to
(18:05):
become the
butterfly, the new structure, the new skeletal structure, the new circulatory structure.
I mean, wouldn't that be just an anxiety-ridden experience?
And then when you have to break out, because you're now feeling claustrophobic.
So I just had that vision of when I was working with my anxiety, saying, what is themessage here?
(18:29):
And it reminds me of something I read quite a while ago, and I wish I remembered where Igot this.
I got to lean over and look at it.
I put this on my wall and I keep reading it like almost every day and it says, stressarises because something incredibly important to us is at stake.
Every decision feels monumental, laden with the weight of our dreams and aspirations.
(18:50):
And so when I start that like, freak out, I lean over and I look at that and I'm like,okay, this is important.
Something's coming up.
These decisions feel really weighty because they're
They're about my dreams and aspirations, so it's okay.
I'm doing something important.
I can turn that into a psychological statement, Jacki, that particular quote, which is,anxiety is a signal from the unconscious that something within the psyche seeks
(19:16):
integration or conscious recognition.
Now, as a depth psychologist, okay, what I would do in regards to, say for example, youwere to come to me for therapy, Yeah.
Well, you know, that's our conversations.
our conversations, okay?
You've come to me and you're talking about, you know, this whole caterpillar thing, okay?
What I would give you probably as an assignment, okay?
(19:38):
Because I like giving people busy work.
I learned that from my fourth grade math teacher, so I just have gone with it.
Give them busy work.
Is I would tell you to spend some time and maybe use something like ChatGPT or, you know,any other AI program.
and just type into it, could you give me a list of myths that have to do withtransformation?
Specifically, I am imagining a caterpillar turning into a butterfly.
(20:03):
Hit enter and get a list of the myths.
Now, here is the thing.
One is gonna stand out to you, and I will tell you why.
When I was doing my work, okay, the myth that stood out to me, and it still stands out tome, and it's one that I work with.
regularly, Jacki, is the myth of Perseus and Medusa.
And I work with it a lot.
(20:23):
And the reason being is that the particular type of disorder I have has to do withfreezing somebody into place.
They're now frozen to stone.
They can't move.
They can't make movement.
And basically, what it has to do with the Medusa is an archetype of paralyzing fear.
OK.
And basically, how I worked with it, Jacki, is that it wasn't looking at the Medusastraight on.
(20:47):
It was looking at her myth and looking at the story involved with it in a creative way.
But starting to look at it sideways, because I'm not gazing right at her.
I'm now looking at it sideways.
I'm now reflecting inwardly.
I have a statement when I talk about Perseus and Medusa about
You know, and you even know Jacki that I have a crystal that is the Medusa.
(21:09):
That when I'm working with it Jacki, I think to myself, okay, Percy has used a mirroredshield.
When you go look in a mirror, what do you see?
You.
Okay.
So what is going on in that particular way?
And when you're working with looking at anxiety sideways, you can journal it, dream it,draw it.
(21:29):
And by working at it with psychological distance, you're no longer consumed by it.
But I would recommend that working with myths that have to do with transformation.
And there's many.
Yeah, I can totally see that.
can see, and you love working with myths.
so, and what I, what's interesting.
tell me that you'll read an article of mine and say, this stuff is your superpower.
(21:51):
It totally is.
And then I can also see modern myths, which is what we watch on TV.
You know, the Marvel comics, the Marvel universe, or even supernatural kind of thing.
And they're all taken from ancient myths.
But I can...
with one Loki at a time.
Multiples is just crazy.
just crazy, but I can see like diving into that and saying, where do I fit in that?
(22:13):
Because that's all the Jungian archetypes too, right?
I mean, in the end, we have a play going on in our subconscious and we're that characterin that play.
So if we can figure...
Jacki, are in any form of a story, whether it be Lord of the Rings or General Hospital,okay?
Myths are alive and well in all of them because they're stories.
(22:34):
And, you know, there is not much difference between Psyche and Eros and Luke and Laura.
Oh my god, you're dating us.
You are dating us so far back.
So far back.
And the people who know who Luke and Laura are, you need to up your life insurance.
So going back to this is one of the things that I talk about a lot is like, what's thestory playing in your head?
(23:01):
What is...
There is a story going on in your subconscious that you're a character in and then youcontinue to cast the characters with people in your life to continue to recreate that
story, which is Going back to that myth.
So in your anxiety You will continue to play that out over and over again if you don'tlike take it and say what is
(23:26):
the myth or the story that's continuing to play out.
And there's ways that you can move through this if you can spend, slow down and tap intoyour subconscious or unconscious.
And there's different ways to do that.
But one of the things I was thinking about when we were getting ready for the show, lastnight I was sitting there and I actually had some quiet time where
(23:49):
Yikes.
Yikes.
right.
But it was purposeful.
I turned off all, well, except for the typewriter, the laptop I was typing on.
But it was very focused on a thing.
But I didn't have any TV on.
I didn't have any music on.
didn't have multiple technology streams going into my head.
(24:10):
And I slowed down and I started thinking about what I used to do.
when I was younger, before I had a cell phone to be in constant touch with people, beforeI had Google, before I could do the internet and social media and take my moments of
anxiety and reach out and make sure I could touch someone or be part of something, when Ihad to sit in my own soul.
(24:34):
And like, what did I used to do?
So,
when I had to slow down my life and let my soul catch up.
And I think that becomes, so when I did this.
know what I did.
I was reading Homer.
Yeah, well, were, and then you were learning the stories, but I did things like listeningto a full album, whether it was, I didn't have vinyl, but I would have a cassette or a CD.
(24:59):
listen from the beginning to the end and you read the liner notes.
But that was an experience with music that I think is completely lost now.
yeah, and then, I would go to a bookstore by myself and I would explore.
that was, there was pre-Borders days, if you knew what Borders was, or pre-Barnes andNobles days, pre-giant bookstore days.
(25:22):
And it would be a smaller bookstore.
And so it was really an exploration of that, a lot of indie bookstores, an exploration of
that owner and what's that owner's interest and specialty and learning about that.
I also would go to a coffee shop and journal, write poetry, take my tarot deck and pull acard and dive into that or learn about connect with an herb.
(25:44):
Like I didn't have, I had one, maybe two books on herbs and cause there wasn't a plethoralike there is today.
And I would like, I would sit at home and I would
pull out that chamomile and put it in my hand and go, hey chamomile, what are you about?
Because there was space to do that and there was space to listen to your own head andlisten to the subconscious and listen to, and sometimes it's great and sometimes it's
(26:09):
dangerous.
mean, but that there was a slowness that is missing today and I don't want to sound likean old person that goes back in my day.
We didn't have to rush around, but I know I'm post-55.
mean, was something.
It's called Saturn, you the golden years, you know.
Back when I was a kid, you know, that's what you're doing.
(26:30):
You're going back to the golden years, which is a myth.
right, the golden years are a myth.
But giving my subconscious and my intuition space to talk to me, and that's my lessonright now, and maybe that's because of that post-Saturn return, is going, you know what, I
need that space for my intuition to talk to me.
(26:52):
I haven't.
No, no, no, no, no, no, You will not have your Saturn return again until it starts in May.
Wait, wait, it didn't happen.
I thought it, I thought it.
No, you're going to be starting to go through it when we get into, when Saturn moves intoAries.
Saturn is in Aries in your chart.
FML.
So now I'm going to do some therapy on Jacki.
(27:14):
We'll be back in a minute.
So, this is, love and hate astrology.
right, and just so you know, this whole therapy thing is not one-sided.
It's not, because there's plenty of years when it was two-sided.
(27:35):
It's just my turn.
Yeah.
So just kind of going back to that.
have my Saturn return again for a few years.
It's not until Saturn moves into Taurus.
Then it'll be your turn.
Anyway, I think that's good news though.
Now that I'm thinking about my Saturn return and my Saturn moving into Aries and what mylife was like then, I think that's good news.
the way that you can work with that actively, Jacki, is to sit down and write what wasgoing on in your life 29 years ago.
(28:00):
And even though the cast of characters may be different and the landscape may look alittle bit different, this season of Grey's Anatomy is going to look like a previous
season of Grey's Anatomy.
It's going to be the same themes that are going to be brought up.
It's just going to be dressed in a different outfit.
So that's the way that you can do it, is really take a look at.
you know, what was going on, you know, in 1996.
(28:25):
Yeah.
Well, it was about to be born.
So, yes, good stuff.
It was a lot of interesting, good changes in my life.
Cleared a lot of stuff out.
at the anxieties and the difficulties that you were going through at that particularpoint, not only personally becoming a new mother in the anxiety of that, but also
business-wise and relationship-wise, compared to 29 years later in which relationshipshave taken on a new dimension.
(28:51):
Luckily enough, you're still with the same person.
Yoo-hoo!
but that relationship is gonna take on a different layer and a different level.
your Saturn is in your seventh house.
So starting to deal with issues and restrictions in regards to partnership, okay?
And all of the things that that brings out is going to be triggered.
Also Saturn is in opposition to most of your stuff in Virgo, okay?
(29:16):
So it's going to be forcing...
you to become more conscious of who you are as an individual.
So there's your therapy session.
Everybody got a live.
Yeah.
and you're welcome.
but going back to that whole, you know, slowing down and then I think that's part of that.
So you can hear what the anxiety is about because that I think is the lie of anxiety thatyou have to get rid of it.
(29:41):
Like going back to what you said that you have to get rid of it versus understanding thatit's a message for you.
It's usable.
Yes, what is this trying to teach me?
Which is why I tell people to work with it creatively.
Because oftentimes you can't look straight forward at it, Jacki, and attack it like, youknow, your Hercules, okay?
(30:02):
You have to look at it from the side.
You have to look at it in a different capacity.
And it's where I think...
One of the questions I was going to ask you actually, Jacki, is do you think that peoplethat are more magically aware or more spiritually aware or even, you know, for example, if
you listen to a Christian, you know, they're always being attacked by the devil in one wayor another.
(30:26):
You know, they're under attack constantly.
Do you think if somebody takes on a spiritual path, let me put it that way, do you thinkthat it may
these things and is the anxiety actually serving some form of other purpose, whether it bespiritual or intuitive or just growth oriented?
Yeah, I think it's a it depends on the it is so unique to the person that when somebody isstepping into their spiritual path, it also depends on where they are in their hierarchy
(30:55):
of needs, to be honest with you.
So are they is their anxiety based in, my God, I don't have enough food to eat.
You know, I'm hungry or I'm lonely.
Or am I actually spiritually evolving?
So I think we step into a spiritual path for, in essence, a goal to become closer todivinity, to become an evolved human.
(31:18):
Like you said, what did Jung say?
It's not to become happy, it's to become whole.
And I think that's why we step into a spiritual path, is to become whole, because we feelfractured.
and anxiety can help us feel fractured.
And if that's all we know and we find ways to mask that or medicate that, then that'senough for us.
(31:39):
And then stepping in, and people who step into a spiritual path, it depends on where theyare, because there's plenty of people that I know that have stepped into a spiritual path
that stay in that fractured state.
And they stay in that those, I don't want to say lower, but,
in the hierarchy of needs, they stay in that physiological need or the protection need.
(31:59):
They're always in a state of crisis being attacked.
You know, currently we're going through a lot of stuff astrologically.
As we're recording this, we're in eclipse season.
We had a lunar eclipse a week and a half ago.
We're going to have a solar eclipse this coming weekend.
Venus is retrograde.
Mercury is retrograde.
The sun has now moved into Aries.
A lot of planets, Venus and Mercury, are going to move back into Pisces.
(32:23):
And one of the things that I'm seeing, and it's one of the things that I'm questioningbecause I did go through a little bit, not for long, I can stop it at this particular
point, but this weekend, Jacki, I started to go through a little bit of anxiety.
And I stopped myself and said, why am I feeling anxious about this?
And it had a lot to do with...
a lot of people being at odds with one another and a lot of people feeding each otherstories in certain sorts of ways and amplifying them and being antagonistic.
(32:54):
And then I just finally said, you know what, I'm not participating in that energy.
There is a time in which you have to cut it off.
it led to the moment that I decided I'm not going to participate in this, the answers andthe solution started to come through Jacki and I was able to
bridge some things to calm some things down.
But it's still triggering.
(33:18):
I think that this is all that I'm just going to be blunt and direct because you know thatthat's my way.
Get the hell off of Facebook.
Stay off of Twitter.
You do not need to be on Instagram and TikTok all day.
Go live your life.
Don't live your life online.
Stop it.
a similar vein, so wait, before I go into the similar vein, you had a question at thebeginning of that.
(33:42):
What my question was about, do you think that you answered it, which you did feel thatpeople that were spiritually attuned or spiritually aware do have a heightened sense of
being more sensitive to anxiety?
Yeah, well, okay, also, so they're spiritually aware and then they're psychically aware.
Those are two different things.
I think psychically aware is when your psychic senses are opened up, which might bewhatever your clair is, clairvoyant, clairsentient, clairaudience, et cetera.
(34:07):
And so if your clair is open...
And you may be a triple offender.
But if your psychic senses are open, then that can create a lot of anxiety.
If they're just riding roughshod on you, like, woohoo, this is the Wild West of goingeverywhere with your psychic senses open, which I've done that when I first learned to
(34:28):
really open up my psychic senses as a young adult.
I was like, what's going on?
And I really had a...
hard time understanding where I ended and other people began, especially in the empathicthing.
And then I learned...
Yeah.
And then I learned...
And then I learned to shut that shit down.
The issue, and this is when I was working with Patty, who is Jacki's sister by the way,part of Coventry also, but I worked with her and one of the things that came up, which I
(34:57):
had not even really considered Jacki up to that point, you know, I had enough problems todeal with, you know, being Claire Voyne, Claire Audien, Claire Sandien.
But when she said, Storm, the feeling in the issue here is that
is that you're actually also an empath.
And then I had to go, you know me, I then have to read 14 books and really analyze whatthe heck this is.
from a psychological perspective, a lot of people that are empaths, Jacki, are justconstantly exposed and open to the collective.
(35:24):
So what is pouring through them is no longer them, it's now just the collective.
And all of the particular energies at the Memo Inc.
Collective, much of which are very disturbing, that's all you have to do is look at thenews, starts to filter through the individual and then we attempt to personalize it.
And it's that personalization that I think causes the anxiety and causes people problems.
(35:46):
Yeah.
Yes.
Because the, so the empathic abilities also, I think, opens up intuition.
if you're, when you're, when you're spiritually growing, you, I think you naturally openup your empathy because you're naturally opening up compassion.
You're connecting with divine, you know, that naturally opens up and then intuition opensup.
(36:07):
And then if you start getting these intuitive and empathic hits,
and you don't have the framework to interpret it, you know, there's a disturbance in theforce and I don't know what to do with this.
And there's a restlessness that happens which then can cause anxiety.
there's, I remember, actually this happened to me last night, to be honest with you.
There's something that I needed to do that I couldn't do and I felt that there wassomething wrong.
(36:30):
And there was something wrong and I couldn't do anything about it.
And I couldn't help the person that,
it was wrong with and I just was like, I was vibrating with this and someone I dearly loveand so I just had to, I was like, that's what it is.
That's what's going on.
They're going through a process that I cannot change for them.
(36:51):
I cannot help them with.
I cannot hold their hand or make it easier.
So I just had to let it go.
I had to surrender it.
I had to surrender it to the divine and say, as much as I want to help this person, Ican't and I can't take this on.
And which felt, dis-compassionate, is that a word?
(37:13):
No, it is no.
It felt almost cruel to say, I can't help you with this.
And, but it was self-care, which is another thing that triggers me when people talk aboutself-care, because I don't think it, it doesn't mean what people think it means.
But, so that can be really weird.
can create, it was creating anxiety for me, like I was doing something wrong.
(37:36):
And it was, it was like an empathic overload.
And I was watching this,
video Reels because that's what I do on social media.
I watch Reels and which I need to
but they're all now cleaning reels and they're really starting to agitate me because Imean I'm getting triggered by people pouring huge volumes of product on their floor and
(37:56):
scrubbing it.
It's starting to trigger me.
So I had to stop.
cleaning reels and they're putting all kinds of cleaning products which are unnecessary.
Like I'm putting Fantastic and Clark's Cleanup and this and that and that and like youonly needed one.
What's the problem with?
And I'm starting to look at this and saying, this person is going to have COPD in a year.
(38:18):
Exactly.
Or like you're about to mix some chemicals that should not be mixed.
Anyway.
straight on the floor.
I'm just like, or you see people mop Jacki and there is so much fricking water on thisfloor that you're thinking to yourself, what is happening to the baseboards underneath all
of this mess?
Yeah, yeah, we're gonna go into a whole crazy, we're gonna have anxiety.
(38:40):
Right.
So I'm watching this reel of this woman and she was doing one of those splits or reactionsor somebody was doing a reaction with her and she was talking about how she thinks that
some, not all, but some neurodivergent people are actually highly sensitive empaths andpsychics who are not trained.
(39:02):
They don't know that that's what's happening.
and they're picking up on other people's emotions, they're picking up on energies of theroom, of something that has happened or might happen in the room.
It's unfiltered psychic energy.
Which is interesting because Patti and I were just having that conversation earlier in theday.
Okay, hello NSA, listening to us on our phones.
And I'm like, this was just our conversation.
(39:24):
I was like, that is fascinating.
And this woman actually...
verbalized it perfectly from what Patti and I were talking about.
So I was like, you know, this is, this is it.
This is the, this is why I use my van van candle and, and spray frequently.
what I want to talk to you about actually at this point is, is what can we do magically?
mean, clearly, okay, anxiety levels are at an epidemic now, you know, there's techstimulation, there's the constant alert and pings.
(39:53):
Social media, actually, the algorithms are created to trigger you.
There's post 2020 trauma.
There's global destabilization.
There's a mindset of scarcity.
There is economic pressure.
There is, I seen, I was reading something about gig economy burnout, which I don't evenknow what that is, but, but you know, it's a thing now.
(40:22):
What?
A term that I just learned, wait, where did it go?
We'll get back to it.
But it was this whole surveillance, what do they call it?
Surveillance capitalism.
That is where everything you're doing is being, what you said is like, we're beingsurveilled all the time.
Mm-hmm.
That's the thing I was like, hello, NSA listening on our phone.
(40:43):
It's all of our every click scroll ping voice input is tracked and sold.
Yeah.
So that, that surveillance capitalism, I was like, there's a term.
So now I know.
Um, and, gig economy burnout.
Um, so, so there is a digital detox I do.
(41:03):
And, and my friends, it involves you.
walking away from your digital, including TV.
it like, well, now it might be, so for me, my digital detox actually involves some music.
So I don't include that.
I just let the music play.
That was a song by Saint Shannon, by the way.
It went to number 16 on the Billboard charts in 1983.
(41:27):
Now, let the music play.
were you making up when I went to the charts or did you know that off the top of yourhead?
that's so funny.
That's your savant moment.
But so your digital detox is really just some cleansing for yourself.
You know, you can use Van Van or spiritual cleansing candles or spray.
But I like candles because what you can do is you can.
(41:49):
Like literally take the candle before you light it and run it through your aura to pick upthis anxiety energy.
It's like a buzzing, you know, and you just kind of pick it up or tell that energy likewhere to go into the candle and then you light the candle and then you use the stability
(42:10):
candle or a grounding candle and you have that and then you have a protection candle.
to then create a layer of protection around you.
you're pulling the energy out that's causing the vibration around you that's not natural.
Then you're grounding your energy.
So you're pulling up really nice earth energy, which is natural.
(42:30):
So you're refilling it with natural energy.
And then you're creating a protection shield around you.
So that's my little digital detox.
Right.
In my circumstance, Jacki, that's all I would do is use the sun candle.
That's why we call this show Curse Breakers.
You know, I'd use a sun candle because it deals with all of those particular issues.
And a major figure in one of the biggest myths of anxiety, which is from a book which iscalled the Orestia, Apollo is one of the major figures, which is the sun god, and it is
(42:58):
through him that you break curses.
So, and anxiety is definitely right up there.
So, yeah, getting, and there is something with the sun candle and the citronella, Ibelieve, in that candle.
And it helps to cleanse.
If you think about it, citrus has been used in cleansing since the beginning of time.
(43:20):
Yes.
So it helps to cleanse and purify and bring things into a natural state of wholeness.
Exactly, and if you think about citrus, it's round, it's colors of the sun, well an orangeis kind of like the color of the sun, but it's very sun oriented.
Well yeah, whatever, but it's kind of there-ish.
(43:42):
There's one more thing that I use, I actually use anxiety in my magic.
They say don't do magic when you're full of anxious energy, and so one day when I'msitting there going, okay, I need to do this thing.
I need to move the needle forward on this thing, but I'm filled with anxiety.
So I'm meditating for reals, not for reals, but for real.
I'm actually meditating.
(44:04):
Right.
I'm actually doing an active meditation where I'm grounding and centering, knowing thatI'm filled with anxiety and I'm asking my divine allies to help me with this.
And the message I got was use your anxiety.
Use it.
This is actually untapped energy.
So this is something that you're about to transform and transition, and this is the energythat you need to use to do it.
(44:29):
And so I used it.
I pulled it up into my hands and I used it to charge the thing, because I used it totransform.
I transformed that energy into something else and I used it.
So when you're feeling really anxious,
taking that time to tune in and saying, what is this anxiety about?
Is it nervousness about the future?
Okay, get in the present moment.
Is it untapped energy?
(44:51):
Okay.
Is it reading the room and you don't know what to do with it?
Okay, but there's not a one size fits all.
You could be in an energetic overload and you got to dump it back into the earth.
So you'd be an intuition hit and you got to go, there's a disturbance in the force.
Yeah.
I've gotten anxious when there's a spirit in the room and I'm like, I'm freaking outwhat's going on.
(45:13):
And then when I tune in, not that spirit, but there was a different, it's a spirit thatbelonged to somebody else and they were too close to me.
And so I got an anxiety hit because it wasn't my energy.
So it could be a lot of different things.
So it's not one size fits all.
(45:33):
Exactly.
And we are now done.
We're done.
I want to remind everybody, if you have not already done so, do so, is make sure that you,on the show note page, there will be a link to our calendar in which all of the astrology
is delivered to your, whatever apps that you're using or, you know, whatever calendarsthat you happen to have.
(45:54):
So you can stay up to date on all of the astrological trends and conditions.
and the Cosmic Weather Forecast all of the time.
So you can go to anywhere in the show notes and find a link to that and make sure that yousubscribe to it.
This show, of course, is sponsored by Coventry Creations.
If you have a problem in your life, regardless of what that problem is, we have a candlefor that.
(46:14):
So make sure that you go and get you plenty of spiritual tools to help you.
And we mentioned several during the show, so you can find them all at Coventry.
Also, Jacki, where can people find you?
You can find me on all the socials, if you're back on social after you've done yourdigital detox under Coventry Creations or Coventry Candles.
You can find me all of those places.
And you can find me at Storms Estavani pretty much everywhere except Facebook.
(46:38):
On Facebook, I'm facebook.com forward slash astrogossip because I like to talk aboutastrology and Jacki, what do they need to do before we come back whenever that's gonna be?
Yes.
on wherever you're listening, whatever platform, including YouTube, subscribe to our show,like and follow.
It helps other people find this show too.
(46:59):
And so we really appreciate it.
The more followers we have, the more people that can find us.
And in the meantime, whatever you do, keep it magic.
It's Big Life everybody, we'll see you soon.
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