Model Dreams, Monster Road: The Murder of Janelle Johnson

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John (00:00):
On the next one,

(00:03):
there are some roads so isolated,so rarely traveled, that you have
to wonder what brings a predatorout there in the first place.
Muskrat Creek Road, Shoshone,Wyoming is one of those roads.
It's the kind of place you only endup if you're looking for something or

(00:26):
if you're trying to hide something.
In March of 1983, a Fremont Countyworker was clearing an ice dam
off that remote oil field cutroad when they made a discovery.
No one should ever have to see a youngwoman nude, violated, dumped like garbage,

(00:46):
partially buried under a collapsed bank.
That woman was Janelle Johnson.
Janelle had just turned 23.
Born in Montana.
She'd moved to Wyoming to build something.
She had ambition.
She had a job at thebowling alley in Riverton.
She had dreams of modeling andhad traveled to Denver for a

(01:09):
meeting with Vno Talent Center.
She was going somewhere, buton the way home, somewhere
between Denver and Riverton.
She vanished.
She was last seen at a truckstop in Sinclair around 9:00
PM on February the 17th.
By March 1st, she was dead beaten,sexually assaulted in the most

(01:33):
violent, dehumanizing way imaginable.
Both her killer, both by her killerand by an instrument they brought with
them Bite marks scarred her shoulder.
She had no clothes, nojewelry, no dignity left.
Thanks to a predator with no conscience.
And let's be clear, whoeverdid this was prepared.

(01:56):
This wasn't a crime of passion.
This was a crime of opportunity controland cruelty authorities documented a
phone call from Rollins to Valley View.

Angela (02:11):
You don't like that?
Do

John (02:12):
I don't think that's true.
This case isn't just cold.
It's practically buriedjust like Janelle was.
And frankly, that is unacceptable.
It's been over 40 years, 40 years sincesomeone drove that remote stretch road,
got out of their vehicle and left behinda young woman who had her whole life ahead

(02:37):
of her, and we're supposed to move on.
Not on this show, and not today.
If you know anything, anything aboutwhat happened to Janelle Johnson.
Contact the National Operate, theNational Organization of Parents
of Murdered Children at 5 1 3 72 1 5 6 8 3, or by email at na

(03:05):
lpo.
mc@pomc.org.
Reference her case when you do,because someone knows and until
they speak up, we'll keep draggingthese cases into the light.
One reckoning at a time.

(03:26):
Angela, how's it going tonight?

Angela (03:29):
It's going.
How are you?
I'm good.
Good.

John (03:33):
I have no complaints.

Angela (03:34):
None.

John (03:35):
Nope.
None.

Angela (03:36):
Can't even come up with any,

John (03:38):
I mean, I can always complain about the assets and shitheads
running around in the world.

Angela (03:42):
This is

John (03:43):
true.
People like we talk abouton all of our shows.
Yeah, I can always bitch about them, but.
As far as my life, no.
I got no complaints.

Angela (03:51):
Well, that's good to hear.

John (03:52):
So, you know, some cases feel personal and not because we knew the
victim, but because we know the terrain,the silence, the space, and how easy it is
to disappear between two small towns withnothing but sky and sagebrush in between.

(04:13):
I'm in the intro segment.

Angela (04:17):
I am too, and I didn't yet have any of that.

John (04:22):
Are you in Janelle Johnson?

Angela (04:23):
Yeah.

John (04:26):
How is that possible?
I

Angela (04:27):
know

John (04:28):
I just read the first thing.
What does your first line say?

Angela (04:35):
Of, of me speaking?

John (04:37):
Yeah,

Angela (04:38):
we're talking about the 1983 murder of Janelle Johnson.
Right.

John (04:43):
Uh.
Okay, so did I finish mine?
Do I need to redo it?

Angela (04:50):
You finished yours.
That's why I was like,

John (04:52):
okay, so it's all you.
Then

Angela (04:57):
Janelle Johnson had just turned 23.
She was ambitious, creative.
She moved from Montana to Wyoming,worked hard, dreamed big, and
one day in 1983, she got in hercar to chase one of those dreams.
No, she

John (05:10):
didn't.
She hitchhiked.

Angela (05:12):
Well, why are you riding it?

John (05:16):
I would just say in one day, in 1983, she headed to
Denver to chase one of her dreams.

Angela (05:25):
Now you have to listen to that by vibrate, because I hid it again.

John (05:29):
It's not actually,

Angela (05:30):
it's not okay.
No.
Janelle Johnson had just turned 23.
She was ambitious, creative.
She moved from Montana to Wyoming.
Worked hard, dreamed big, and oneday in 1983, she was headed to
Denver to chase one of those dreamsfor a modeling interview, but she

(05:52):
never made it back to Riverton.

John (05:55):
A short while later, her body was found nude, dumped near Muskrat
Creek Road outside of Shoshone.
She'd been sexually assaulted, beaten,bitten, her clothes, her jewelry gone,

Angela (06:10):
and that road that wasn't just some side route, it was remote
industrial used by oil field crewsand country trucks, county trucks.
Let's try that again.
Used by oil field crew and county trucks.
Whoever left her there knew it wouldbe a while before anyone came looking.

John (06:32):
This is dark dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning.
Show where we return to the crimesrooted deep in the dirt and the
snow of the American West, theones that never left the hearts of
the people who lived through them.

Angela (06:49):
We investigate the stories buried under snowfall, prairie dust,
and decades of unanswered questions.
The ones whispered through cattlefences, past broken barbed wire,
and across wind lashed highways.

John (07:04):
Disappearance isn't always about getting lost, sometimes someone's waiting.

Angela (07:11):
I'm Angela.

John (07:12):
And I'm John.

Angela (07:14):
In this episode, we follow Janelle's final journey from a hopeful
trip to Denver to the horror foundat the end of a forgotten road.

John (07:22):
This is Model Dreams Monster Road.
What happened to Janelle Johnson?

Angela (07:29):
And this is Dark Dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning

John (07:34):
Angela.
I think that you have some locationinformation for a couple of the places
that we're visiting tonight, don't you?
I

Angela (07:41):
do, I do.
And I have been to both ofthese places far too many times.

John (07:45):
Me too.

Angela (07:47):
So here we go.
Our first stop

John (07:50):
Yes.

Angela (07:51):
Is Riverton Wyoming, often called The Rendezvous City, has rich history
rooted in its strategic location anddiverse cultural influences situated
in Fremont County at the confluenceof the big and little Wind Rivers.
Riverton was a natural gathering placelong before its founding in 1904.

(08:14):
Riverton was initially named Wadsworthafter Indian agent Hg Wadsworth, but
was renamed Riverton due to its locationnear the conjunction of Four Rivers,
the Big Wind, little Wind, Poppo, Ja.
And.
Excuse me, and Bighorn Rivers.

John (08:33):
When I was little, I always called the PO Poppo, the Poppo,

Angela (08:36):
everybody.
Little, little Poppo, Aggie, but it's poa.
It was officially incorporatedin 1906 on land surrendered from
the Wind River Indian Reservationfollowing a federal land office
establishment in 1830 and 1838.
Mountain Men Rendezvous broughtlegendary figures like Jim Bridger,

(08:58):
kit Carson and Jedi Smith to tradewith Native Americans and missionaries.
The 1838 Rendezvous site still in itsoriginal ground is celebrated annually
with reenactments and ah, it isfinally time for the census comparison.
Yay.
In this episode, same as with our lastepisodes, John has asked me to note

(09:22):
the census records are on the timeof the occurrence we are reporting.
So the earliest record I found.
For was for 1910 with areported 483 residents in 1980.
The timeframe pertinent to ourstory, Riverton had grown to
9,562 people with 10,682 Rivertonreported during the 2020 census.

(09:50):
You know, I have people inmy office asking what the
denim for everything is now.

John (09:54):
I'll never remember that word.
I'm gonna always askyou what is that word?

Angela (09:57):
Yeah.
Well, they, they askedme what the word is.
Then they asked me whatthe denim is for places.
So for my notable people related tothis town, I thought it fitting to
first mention John Bennett Harrington,who was the first enrolled member of a
Native American tribe to fly to space.

John (10:14):
Wow.

Angela (10:15):
I thought that was pretty cool.

John (10:16):
Me too.
I didn't know that.

Angela (10:19):
Mr. Darrell Winfield, better known to most of us as the
Marlborough man, what was from here,as well as Leslie Lynch King, senior
father to President Gerald Ford.

John (10:32):
I didn't know any of that from Riverton,

Angela (10:34):
Wyoming.

John (10:36):
That's pretty cool.

Angela (10:38):
Also, ass Hat Alert.
Andrew John Yellow Bear, Jr.
Born September 5th, 1974, was thedefendant in one of Wyoming's most
notorious capital murder trials.
He was convicted in April,2006 in Thermopolis, Wyoming of
premeditated first degree murder.

(10:58):
In the death of his 22 month old daughter,she is Marcella Hope Yellow Bear.
He was subsequently sentenced to life inprison without the possibility of parole.
Let's take a moment todigest that from Marcella.

John (11:14):
Yeah, she deserves a moment of silence.
Poor little thing.

Angela (11:20):
So also, who in Wyoming thinks of Riverton without
thinking of the Wind River Casino?

John (11:26):
I never think of it.

Angela (11:28):
You never think of it?

John (11:29):
No.

Angela (11:30):
Their tagline is where the winners play and every time I drive
through with my brother, he wantsto know where the losers play.

John (11:38):
I mean, all my time in Riverton predated the casino.

Angela (11:43):
Mm.

John (11:43):
So I never think of the casino.
When I think of

Angela (11:46):
Riverton, we usually go once a year.

John (11:49):
Really?
Yeah.
I have set foot in the place once inmy life and I was using the bathroom.

Angela (11:59):
Well, in case you wanna find it again.
Thank you.
Lemme tell you about it.
Located approximately two miles southof Riverton, the Wind River Casino
is proudly owned by the NorthernArapahoe Tribe, wind River Hotel.
And the And Casino offersthrill, entertainment, gaming,
and dining experiences.
Explore over 700 state-of-the-artgaming machines from slots and video

(12:22):
reels to keynote and video poker, ordive into action pack table games.
Take the excitement further withour sports book and the ultimate
sports betting experience.
Wind River Hotel and Casino Vegasstyle gaming in the heart of Wyoming.
And I took that directly from theirwebsite, which is why it sounded like it's

John (12:42):
like it was from their website.
From their

Angela (12:43):
website.
Yes.
So then from Riverton, which is oddbecause in our neck of the woods to get
to Riverton, you go through Shoshone.
So Right, we're going fromRiverton back to Shoshone.
So I don't know if my co-host agrees here,but to most folks in our area, Shoshone,

(13:04):
Wyoming is just a fork in the road onthe way to either Casper or Riverton.

John (13:09):
Ever since they closed the mall shop, it is back when they had the
mall shop, it was more than that.

Angela (13:14):
Uh, it's just a fork in the road's, a gas station,
and a fork in the road.
To me,

John (13:18):
they had the best malts in the history of, I never the world.
I've

Angela (13:21):
never, I've been through there so many times and I have never i's to my,
to my recollection, I had never had one.
It's gone

John (13:29):
now, but they were, I'm so sorry.
Amazing.
I'm sorry.
Me too.

Angela (13:33):
I know people like the ice cream and Faron too, but I've also
known far too many people to becomeill, so I will not be partaking in that.

John (13:42):
I don't, I don't think there's anything gonna be ill about, but I
never really understood it either.
'cause it's just like Wil wilcoxswains or something like that.
Yeah, it's the same thing you can get

Angela (13:50):
at Albertson's if you just drive up there.

John (13:52):
Yep.

Angela (13:54):
So.
We took the right turn and wentto Riverton earlier, but now I'll
feed you a little informationabout this little Wyoming town
and it is very little information.

John (14:06):
Well, it's a very little town.
Yeah.

Angela (14:09):
If we can still call it a town, I think it

John (14:11):
is.

Angela (14:12):
I think it is too.
Yeah.
It was founded in 1904 by thePioneer Town Site Company and was
named for the Shoshone Indian Tribe.
The town was plotted as a railroadstop, strategically located at
the intersection of trade routes.
Now US routes 20 and 26, knownas the Yellowstone Highway.

(14:32):
By 1905, Shoshone became a tent city witha population of about 2000, driven by
the opening of Wind River Reservation,lands mineral exploration at nearby
Copper Mountain and irrigation projects,early businesses, including the Air
Elkhorn Hotel built in 1905 OP rated.

(14:57):
Is that the art of being Oprah

John (14:58):
must be something

Angela (15:01):
operated out of tents due to a lack of building materials.
In 1907 and 1908, fires destroyedmuch of the town's wooden structures
leading to reconstruction withbrick and stone buildings.
This period saw Shoshone boast 23 saloons.
Wow.
Two banks, a mercantile, alumberyard, and other businesses

(15:24):
making it a bustling frontier hub.

John (15:27):
So I'm wondering, I know you're about to tell us, but is this gonna
be like the first town that has gonedown in populations over the years?

Angela (15:35):
Well, yes.
The Town Census records for 1910 boasted604 people, whereas about 1983 when
this story takes place, there was about.
879 residents reported

John (15:52):
it was booming in the

Angela (15:53):
eighties.
Yeah.
It has since taken a populationhit to a reported 471 people in the
2020 census, maybe five years ago.
It's probably a little different now,but it's might be less even still.

John (16:07):
Yeah.
There's not very many people thatlive there, but I think that's
the first town we've covered.
That's gone down, isn't it?

Angela (16:12):
Some of 'em have gone down, but not as drastically as that.
Right.
That was

John (16:15):
cut like in half.

Angela (16:16):
Almost in half, yeah.
Wow.
Shoshone is the birth birthplaceof Charles Henry King, who is the
grandfather of President Gerald Ford.
Interesting.
So his grandfather was born in Shoshone,his father was born in Riverton.
Huh.
As well as actress Isabelle Jewelknown for her roles and gone

(16:36):
with the wind and lost horizon.

John (16:39):
Wow.
Super interesting.

Angela (16:41):
And those are the things that I have for you
and I. Taught you some things.
So I feel pretty good about myself.

John (16:46):
And what is unique about President Gerald Ford?

Angela (16:53):
Why would you ask me that?

John (16:56):
Because you decided to get smart with me,

Angela (16:59):
Uhhuh.
Well, I've gotten smart with you before.
That's never happened.

John (17:04):
President Gerald Ford is the only president in our
history that was never elected.

Angela (17:10):
Do tell.

John (17:11):
So Gerald Ford took over after Nixon resigned.
So he was Nixon's vice president, and sohe became president just because Nixon
resigned and he didn't run for reelection.
So he was never elected.

Angela (17:25):
So there you go.

John (17:26):
There you have it.

Angela (17:28):
All right.
And I shall shut my trap for a while.

John (17:33):
She moves behind the counter with an easy rhythm of
someone who's done this before.
Tucking a strand of hair behind herear is she grabs a pair of number
sevens and slides them acrossto the guy in the denim jacket.
A smile, quick, confident, a pencilscribbles across the back of a napkin.

(17:55):
Mileage bus fare checklists,Denver's only a few days away.
Now the modeling interview at viNOI Talent Center has her buzzing.
She's got her outfit picked, herdirections printed from the gas station.
Her roommate back in Rivertonalready promised to hold
the fort till she gets back.

(18:17):
It's all coming together.
She grabs her rig wipes down the plasticscoring table near lane five, then
glances at the clock just past nine.
She's thinking about herdouble shift tomorrow.
Valley view lanes in the morning,then right back here in the evening.

(18:40):
It's not glamorous, but it's justtemporary 'cause she's got plans.
There's a rhythm to this place.
Shoes squeaking, pins falling, the hiss ofthe ball return, and in the middle of it
all, Janelle working, smiling, dreaming.

(19:02):
So Janelle Johnson was born February16th, 1960 in Glasgow, Montana,
and she's the third oldest sisterin a large blended family with two
younger sisters, three brothers, fourstepbrothers, and one stepsister.
So I couldn't find any specificnames or, you know, that's a lot

Angela (19:26):
going on.

John (19:26):
That's a lot going on.
Couldn't find really a lot about thefamily dynamics or any really about
her childhood or anything like that.
But she was raised in Glasgow,which is a small rural community.
Um, couldn't find much about hereducation or childhood activities, really
anything about her childhood at all.
Uh, but she was noted as beingambitious and she was pursuing a

(19:51):
modeling career, which led her torelocate from Montana to Riverton.
And I don't know, I couldn't figure out

Angela (20:02):
case.
You didn't notice that?
I apparently had a look on my face.

John (20:06):
Yeah.
I couldn't figure that out.

Angela (20:08):
It's like to Riverton for modeling.
Huh?

John (20:11):
And I'm sure it was to get closer to Denver, but why she
didn't go to Denver or Casper?
I don't know.
Riverton is not Not theplace, place, you think?
Think No.
But we do know that she movedeither like late 81 or early 82 and

(20:32):
set up shop in Riverton, Wyoming.
Which okay is, you know, forthose that don't know, it's
about 500 miles from Denver.
So it's not like it's that suburb.
I mean, yeah, it's, it's a hell of a longways And Riverton kind of sits in the
middle of Wyoming and not really on major,like a major thoroughfare to Denver.

(20:56):
Like you said, CasperYeah, would make sense.
Cheyenne would make a ton of sense.
Riverton, I don't know, butmaybe she had family there.
Maybe she had a friend that,because she did have a roommate
in Riverton and Riverton hasCentral Wyoming College maybe.
Maybe she wanted to go

Angela (21:17):
where the winters.

John (21:19):
There was no casino in Riverton in 1980.
Oh my goodness.
So I don't really know why Riverton.
But anyway, she lived there.
She ended up there and she took a jobat Valley View Bowling Alley, which,
um, which I think was probably the onlybully Alley Bowling alley in Riverton and

Angela (21:45):
probably still is

John (21:47):
there.
They closed.

Angela (21:48):
Oh, they closed.
So there isn't one at all in Riverton.

John (21:50):
I don't know if there is or not, but this Valley View.

Angela (21:53):
Not that I'm, I don't know why I am so concerned.
Like Riverton doesn'thave a bowling alley.

John (21:58):
Yeah.
I don't know.
They all is lost.
They very well might.
Riverton iss a pretty good sized place.
I think it's bigger than Cody.
It is.

Angela (22:05):
It's so much bigger than you expect when you're coming upon it.

John (22:10):
It is, it's rough.

Angela (22:12):
Yeah.
I don't like, I'm not a big fan.

John (22:14):
I mean, you know, to my Wyoming brothers and sisters that
live in Riverton, I'm sorry, butI've never been a fan of Riverton.
And it's it's a rough damn place.
It really is.
It really is.
Um, but we do know that Janelle wasworking at the bowling alley and
she was living with a roommate inRiverton and she frequently hitchhiked.

(22:37):
It was, first of all, we'retalking early eighties, so mm-hmm.
It was very common back then.
And then it still

Angela (22:45):
sketch, but not as bad.

John (22:46):
Well, it, it's always been sketchy, but yeah, back then it was normal.
It really wasn't.
I mean, it was very normal.

Angela (22:55):
Mm-hmm.

John (22:55):
Even in my lifetime, which I don't really remember the early eighties,
I was pretty young to remember that.
But you know, through the lateeighties and early nineties, I remember
hitchhiker all over the freaking

Angela (23:08):
place.

John (23:09):
Me too.
It was very, very common.
So it doesn't surprise me at all.
And we've talked about that withour earlier episodes on Rocky
Mountain Reckoning that, you know,through the seventies and stuff,
all of the hitchhiking that wasgoing on, it was just super common.

Angela (23:24):
Yeah.

John (23:25):
And now you really wouldn't think of moving to a place like
Riverton if you didn't have a car.
You know, if you're moving to the citywhere there's public transportation
available, a lot of people do that.
They don't have cars.
But in an area like Riverton, you justwouldn't move there unless you had a car.
But early eighties was adifferent time all together.

Angela (23:49):
Oh, it was a better time ish.

John (23:52):
Oh, the eighties was a better time.

Angela (23:54):
Well, we didn't have the technology, which we
do kind of depend on now.

John (23:58):
I watched, I saw a meme on Facebook the other day that was Doc
Brown saying to Marty, we need to getback to the eighties and stay there.

Angela (24:06):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

John (24:06):
And I was like, uh huh.
Yes.
Yep.
I will be jumping in the trunk ofthe DeLorean and coming with you.
Same.
So, but we do know, like I said, thatshe was born and raised in Glasgow,
which is a, it's a small town in Montana.
And then she decided that shewanted to pursue modeling.
And she, Janelle was a beautiful woman.

(24:27):
She really was.
So, I, I think she would'vebeen successful in modeling.
She had that, that look thatwould've been, uh, sought
after in the early eighties.

Angela (24:37):
I need to look

John (24:37):
for a model.
And she, she had actually completed, um.
Modeling school.
And she actually went to the samemodeling school that my sister
went through, which I think was

Angela (24:55):
interesting.

John (24:55):
Uh, Baral, I'm pretty sure was the name of it.
Paral Modeling.
And they, you know, teach 'em, Idon't know all the modeling crap.
I didn't, I didn't take the classes.
I don't know what they teach 'em,but I'm assuming like how you walk,
how you stand, how you, you know,look like a model, all that grace,

Angela (25:13):
how you carry yourself,

John (25:15):
all that different stuff.
Yeah.
And so from what I understand, after shefinished her, like little modeling school
or whatever, um, she made a connectionwith an outfit that, that was in Denver.

(25:37):
And looking into it, it lookslike it was, you know, a pretty.
I mean, it was started by one guy,but it, it seems like it was, uh,
pretty large modeling talent agency,whatever it was through those times.
It's, it's gone now as well.
But that was named Vannoy,um, Vannoy Talent Agency.

(25:57):
And she had got an interview set upwith them and so she was gonna head
down to Denver for, for that interview.
And so, you know, her modelingcareer was in the very early stages.
I, I couldn't find anydocumented, like contracts mm-hmm.
Or any completed jobs.
I don't think that she hadactually worked as a model yet.

(26:20):
She was just getting startedand so this would've been a big
break for her to have this talentagency book, a interview with her.
So I'm sure that she was freakingover the moon about this and so.
The modeling industry in general inthe early eighties was shifting from

(26:43):
the 1970s glamor to more diversecommercial work with a high demand
for print ads, catalogs, magazines.
I mean, if you grew up during thatperiod of time, I think it really was the
heyday of modeling through the eighties.
Because I mean, they had models oneverything and everything we did

(27:07):
was print back then you get me gotmagazines and you know, billboards and
I mean, so it was really the heydayfor, for modeling and institutions
like Barbon, the one that I mentioned,and there was another one called.
John Casablanca, which offered trainingin runway techniques, posing portfolio

(27:29):
development, and it would cost back thenroughly 500 to $2,000 to do this program.
So now in today's money that wouldrun between 1500 and 6,000, but it
offered rural people an opportunityto get into, into modeling.

(27:49):
And it, as funny as it is, itwas really a ticket out for a
lot of both young men and women.
You know, there were there a lot of whobecame very successful models and mm-hmm.

Angela (28:04):
Even

John (28:04):
actors and actresses that moved out of the modeling
industry into the acting industry.
Yeah.
In the 1980s that came fromlittle Podunk freaking nowhere.
Towns, you know.
You know, you, you kind of allude.
So, you know, there was a lot of that backin that period of time where these people
would come from these little podunk towns

Angela (28:26):
mm-hmm.
And then

John (28:27):
find success through modeling, you know?

Angela (28:30):
Yeah.

John (28:30):
And so, and, and you've talked about that in a lot of your
location descriptions and stuffwhere these super famous people
come out of nowhere, a pretty

Angela (28:39):
little place.
Yeah.
And I'm not entirely and nobody knows.

John (28:42):
Yeah.
I'm not entirely sure who thewoman was that you said was
in like Gone with the Wind.

Angela (28:48):
Yeah.

John (28:48):
Uh, but Gone With the Wind was

Angela (28:50):
big.

John (28:50):
Huge.
So

Angela (28:51):
yeah,

John (28:52):
huge.

Angela (28:53):
Yeah.

John (28:55):
Why was it so big?

Angela (28:57):
I don't know.

John (28:58):
It was the first movie made in color,

Angela (29:00):
was it?
Yeah.
Oh,

John (29:01):
yep.
It made 1936.
Feel like

Angela (29:04):
this is trivia night that Angela is failing.

John (29:07):
Well, my brain is full of a bunch of useless inform,
so dark dialogue trivia night.
Fill your brain with moreuseful shit than that

Angela (29:14):
because the trivia.
The trivia filing cabinet has been jammedand I can't get it open and haven't
been able to get it open for a while.
Is that the problem?
That's the problem.
Send WD 40 and a crowbar.

John (29:29):
So, you know, when my sister went through the barbon program, they
actually would meet in Casper anddo it at a, at a motel in Casper.
But with Janelle it was Denver.
And even for my sister, whichwould've been, um, early nineties,
you know, she had to go to Denverfor like the final whatever deal.

(29:54):
Denver.
Those, those major metropolitanareas were really the epicenter
for the modeling industry.
So it's not at all surprising thatin order for her to be able to book
an interview with a talent agency.
She was gonna have to travel toa place like Denver in order to
get in with somebody like that.

(30:18):
And so her interview was scheduledwith the no Talent center, um,
on February 16th or 17th of 1983.
And so she began planning her trip andher, her 23rd birthday would've been fe,

(30:39):
her 23rd birthday would'vebeen FE February the 16th.
And then she decided that shewas gonna hitchhike to Denver
and then hitchhike home.
And like we talked about, thatwas super common back then.
So, you know, she took offand hitchhiked down there.
She called her roommate andlet her know that she made it

(31:00):
safely and everything went well.
So her interview then wason February the 17th and.
That seemed to go really well too.
She left Denver around 5:30 PM and headedback to Riverton again, hitchhiking.
And she was last seen.
And this one is confusing to me.

(31:22):
And it might just be because, well,it might be for a couple reasons.
No, actually it does make sense.
I'm just trying to think in my brain, ifI was driving from Denver to Riverton,
would I be going through Sinclair?
But actually when I stop and thinkabout it, you'd probably go through

(31:42):
Muddy Gap and up that way, which wouldtake you through Sinclair instead
of up through Casper and around.
Mm-hmm.
It would've been a faster way to go.
So it does make sense whenyou stop and think about it.
Um, we're used to traveling to Casperand then turning to Shoshone and
coming up north to where we're at.
So it would've, I guess, made senseto go through Sinclair if they

(32:04):
were going the muddy gap route.
So she was last seen at that truck stopin Sinclair, and I don't know what the
hell it is about Sinclair freaking Podunk,Wyoming with a population of nothing

Angela (32:15):
truck stop

John (32:15):
where it continues to pop up in these cases.
But if you remember right, that'swhere two of the bodies were found.

Angela (32:23):
Mm-hmm.

John (32:23):
After the Rollins Rodeo murders was out around Sinclair.
It's just weird, you know,because it's, it's because it's

Angela (32:29):
tiny, it's nothing and it's a truck stop

John (32:32):
and it's on I 80, which is the shittiest interstate in this country.
If you ask my opinion,I hate Interstate 80.
So
there's, I mean, obviously whenthey, when they were looking into
her life and everything, there wasno documented personal conflicts
with anybody in Riverton or anything.
Nothing in her family.

(32:53):
Um, hitchhiking was really her primaryvulnerability and you know, I mean,
obviously that's gonna reflect her.
Financial limitations anda different era for sure.
Like we alluded to before, buthaving a car in 1980 wasn't as
big of a thing as it is now.

(33:13):
Yeah.
And it wasn't as common, especiallycoming from a huge family like
she did with all of those kids.
It probably wasn't at alluncommon for a large family, for
kids not to get their own car.
At 16,

Angela (33:27):
you drive your siblings around.
I do have one question though.

John (33:30):
Shoot.

Angela (33:30):
What's the worst interstate in Wyoming?

John (33:33):
80, a hundred percent.
I freaking hate.
It's not, it's not theworst interstate in Wyoming.
It's the worst interstatein this entire country.
I hate driving a across city.

Angela (33:45):
I was just gonna try to see if something was gonna
be thrown my general direction.

John (33:50):
Oh, I'm waiting for it for when you least expect it.

Angela (33:55):
Continue.

John (33:55):
Yeah.
80 is the, the highwaythat all the truckers take.
The vast majority of the trucktraffic across this country is on 80.
So you get behind these freaking truckers.
Oh God.
I hate driving across 80 andI've done it a lot, but it's
my least favorite for sure.
You know, anyway, coming from a bigfamily like that, it just wasn't

(34:17):
realistic probably that the parentswere gonna be able to afford to buy
each one of their kids their own car.
And it's something that we do nowwithout ever even thinking about it.
But in the eighties, itreally wasn't done that much.
I, I, you know, like growing up with,in my family, you know, like my older
sisters, they had one car that theyshared between the, the two of them.

(34:41):
Each one of them didn't have theirown car, which is, you know, similar
to what we're talking about here.
Maybe they had the one car thatall the different siblings that
were of driving age could drive.
But when she decided to leave homeand head off to chase her dreams,

Angela (34:57):
she car Yeah.
You can't

John (34:58):
take the car.
Yeah.
Right.
So.
Whatever the reason, we knowthat she didn't have one.
And so she was hitchhiking, which againwas just way more acceptable in 1980.
Now if my daughter was like, I'mgonna move and hitchhike, I'd
be like, oh, like hell you are.
Yeah.
I don't give a shit how old you are.
No, you're not.

(35:18):
I will buy you a car.
This is not happening.

Angela (35:20):
Yeah,

John (35:21):
but it was a different world back then, you know?
So

Angela (35:27):
I do, but the parents didn't necessarily want her hitchhiking,
but couldn't really stop her.

John (35:33):
I would imagine.
So, you know, and I mean, I've been there.
Once you move out and you're onyour own, you do your own shit.
I, I couldn't find anything where sheeven told her parents, and she very
well may not have because that would be.
A very common thing for somebodyin their late teens, early twenties

(35:53):
to do, I'm gonna do this, mom anddad are gonna flip their shit.
Mm-hmm.
So I'm not gonna tell 'em until I'm back.
And then I'm gonna tell'em, I got the modeling job.
And they're gonna say,how'd you get to Denver?
And I'm gonna say, hitchhiked,and then they're gonna yell at me,
but it's gonna be, I'd rather askforgiveness or beg for forgiveness

(36:13):
than ask for permission type of thing.
Yep.
I, I don't know that, but I kindof suspect there might have been
a little bit of that going on.
So, but what we do know is by 9:00 PMthat night, she was never seen again.
She was seen at the Sinclairtruck stop and then disappeared.

(36:43):
So she steps onto the crackedsidewalk outside Union Station.
February cold biting at her coatsleeves, but her stride doesn't break.
She's got a paper tucked in herpurse with the address of Eno talent
center, and she's going to find it.
She didn't come all this way fromRiverton just to second guess herself.

(37:08):
Inside the agency's small waitingarea, it smells faintly like
cheap perfume and coffee gone.
Lukewarm head shots line the wall modelswith teased hair and perfect teeth.
She straightens her shoulders, checksher reflection in the glass frame,
smooths the front of her blouse.

(37:29):
She's ready.
The interview is quick but promising.
She chats, she smiles.
She listens closely.
They tell her that they'll be in touch.
Her eyes light up.
It's not a guarantee, but it's a crackin the door, and that is all she needs.

(37:50):
Just after 9:00 PM at the truckstop in Sinclair, Wyoming, she's
made her way most of the way back.
She's made her way most of thejourney back towards Riverton.
Thumbing rides along thehighway like she's done before.
Confident, capable, tired, but focused.

(38:12):
She makes a call back to Valley Viewchecks in, says she's headed home.
She's still got a few dozen miles to go,but she's closer than she was yesterday.
She adjusts her coat, tightens the strapon her purse, and waits for her next ride.

(38:38):
So.
We do know that five days afterher sighting at the Sinclair truck
stop, her friends are freaking out.
Um, obviously mm-hmm.
The, the family's freaking out.
Her roommates have let the family knowthat, you know, she never made it home.
Family's freaking out.
Friends are freaking out.

(38:59):
And they finally file amissing persons report with
the Riverton Police Department.
And the details from that report were thatshe was described as a 23-year-old woman
who was last seen at the Sinclair truckstop traveling from Denver to Riverton.
She was likely wearing casual clothingthat was suitable for that kind of travel.

(39:20):
Probably jeans and a shirt, you know,but nothing specific was documented
because nobody saw her before.
Right.
Her friends didn't, didn'tsee her that morning.
So

Angela (39:31):
just going by her regular,

John (39:33):
which she, yeah, I mean, her roommate may have known
the clothes that she took.
And could have guessed maybe what shewould've been wearing, but we don't
know for sure what she was wearing.
But her roommate did note that the callfrom Denver saying that she had made it on
time and then nothing after February 17th.

(39:55):
So Riverton police beganinquiries focusing on our last
known location in Sinclair.
But no immediate lead leadsemerged as, I mean, truck stops
with transient populations,especially in the early eighties.
This is before we had CCTV camerasall over the freaking place.
Right.
They were nowhere, especiallynot gonna be at a truck stop in

(40:18):
Sinclair, Wyoming of all places.
Yeah.
And the investigation was limited.
Like all the cases we've talkedabout in this series so far by
the forensic capabilities ofthat day in these rural areas.
So it was minimal.
Mm-hmm.
You know, there wasn't awhole lot that they could do.
She was just gone.

(40:40):
And then on March 1st, 1983, her bodywas found on Muskrat Creek Road near
Shoshone, which you kind of talked about.
Right.
Shoshones, roughly 30 miles from Riverton.
And her body was discovered bycounty workers who were removing

(41:00):
an ice block from a storm drain.
From a storm drain, whichhad eroded the shallow grave.
So she had been buriedand then the water rushing

Angela (41:10):
past

John (41:10):
her had kind of uncovered her.
That's, that's how theywere able to find her.

Angela (41:16):
Like in the storm drain or just near like the ditch?

John (41:19):
Kind of beside it.
Okay.
I don't know for sure, but kind ofwhat I think happened is she was
buried near it and then the ice backedup, which caused the water to flow
around and wash out an area a littlebit farther away from the creek.
Okay.
And then when they were there trying toget that ice block moved out of there,

(41:39):
that's when they discovered her bodyand she had been raped and murdered.
The autopsy confirmed sexual assault andstrangulation is the cause of death, and
there were bite marks that were found onone shoulder and an impression was taken
for maybe potential suspect comparison.

Angela (41:59):
Yeah,

John (42:00):
there were also seminal fluids recovered from her body and obviously
that was believed to have been fromthe perpetrator, but as sad as it is.
It was stored in a refrigerator thateither the refrigerator failed or got
unplugged or whatever happened, and

Angela (42:21):
no,

John (42:22):
we lost the evidence.
So we had DNA evidence in this case,and it's gone, which is so beyond
frustrating and I don't know enough aboutit to say whether it was caused by Dip
Shittery or if it was just shitty luck.

Angela (42:43):
Right.

John (42:43):
You know, because you can, you know, if like a refrigerator
fails, it's really nobody's fault.
And
like we've talked about in somany of these cases, this was
at a time, 1983 where DNA wasto say it was in its infancy.

(43:07):
Is being generous.
Yeah.
I mean, it was barely

Angela (43:10):
zygote.
See?

John (43:11):
Yeah.
And you know, like small departmentslike Riverton, Wyoming for instance, it
wouldn't have even been on their radar.
No.
In 1983.
I mean, I know I didn't hear about ituntil late eighties or early nineties.
Mm-hmm.
Before we really started hearingabout DNA and yeah, we know now when

(43:33):
we look back through the historythat it was in the development stages
back then, but as far as like lawenforcement having a freaking clue
what it was and how they could use it.
So the fact that they collected the semensample and kept it under refrigeration
is pretty freaking heads up police work.
Yeah.

(43:53):
In my opinion, in 1983, the fact that itwas lost sucks ass for sure does suck, but
I don't think I can blame them for that.
It just seems like it was shitty luck.
So, you know, the scary part about thisis out there and I, I don't know, I

(44:15):
know exactly where Muskrat Creek Roadis because I looked it up on Google
Maps, but I've never been there.
But that area is just,it's just sagebrush planes.
Yeah.

Angela (44:28):
A lot of nothingness.

John (44:30):
A lot of nothingness.
And if it wouldn't have been for thatice blocking that up, she probably never
would've been found because this is nota high traffic area and she was buried.

Angela (44:42):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

John (44:42):
So I mean, the odds of anybody ever fighting that body or minuscule
and the fact that it was foundso shortly after she was murdered
is pretty freaking remarkable.
Really.
So the Riverton police, um, coordinatedwith the Fremont County Sheriff's Office.

(45:02):
They investigated the, theSinclair truck stop lead.
They investigated the MuskratCreek Road crime scene.
They did everything they could to try tofind witnesses or physical evidence, but
there really wasn't much, and no suspectswere identified, no specific vehicles, no

(45:24):
individuals that they were looking for.
I mean, nobody witnessedanything about this.

Angela (45:30):
Mm-hmm.

John (45:30):
So you have no idea who you're looking for.
And then the really unfortunatething is losing that seminal fluid,
because my suspicions is there'sa very high likelihood that it
would've led to a particular shitheadthat we know well in this area.
Yeah.
But without that.

(45:52):
We don't know.
And in 1983, bite, bite, mark impressionsseemed like really good science.

Angela (45:59):
Yeah.

John (45:59):
But we have learned over the years that it's extraordinarily unreliable,
and it's kind of almost been discountedas just junk science at this point.

Angela (46:12):
I didn't know that.

John (46:12):
Yeah.
I mean, if, if there's like a reallyunusual, uh, bite mark, like there's a

Angela (46:20):
cap or a,

John (46:21):
not even a cap, like they're like snaggle teeth, like their teeth
are a half an inch separation betweenthe other ones or something, then,
you know, they, they can kind of say,but in 1983 and before 1983, they
would sit on a witness stand and say.
This bite impressioncame from this person.

(46:43):
They can't say that anymore.

Angela (46:45):
Okay.

John (46:45):
They can just say it's similar.
That would be the testimony.
If it was in court today, they wouldsay, this bite mark is similar to the
bite impressions from the suspect.

Angela (46:57):
Okay.
But

John (46:57):
we cannot say conclusively that it came from this person.
And when you thinkabout it, it is logical.
I mean, when you bite somebody hardenough to leave an impression on
them, a significant amount of bruisingand stuff occurs at the same time.
And that's gonna disfigure someof the identifying marks in the,

(47:18):
in the bite mark impression.
Yeah.
So it's really not relied uponnearly as heavily as it was in 1983.
So, sure.
Um, but Janelle's murder has beenlinked historically with the Great
Basin murders that we've beentalking about this entire season.

(47:38):
All of the victims that we've alreadycovered, Janelle has historically
been included in that list.
And like I I said from the very beginning,um, it's very difficult because there's
so many different lists out there.
So some of them are on some,some of them are on others.
I've included a bunch that aren't onany of the rest of 'em, but Janelle

(48:02):
has historically been pretty muchincluded in all of the different lists.
She is considered a crate based and serialkiller victim, and we, again, we only say
that because that's kind of the title.
We know it was not just one.
But

Angela (48:16):
yeah.

John (48:18):
And, and I mean, you kind of talked about this already,
but just to kind of reiterate, wetalked about Riverton, which is.
A relatively small town in Wyoming.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, for Wyoming it's one ofour larger towns, but in comparison
to other places, it's tiny.
It's a tiny little town.

Angela (48:37):
What's that population?

John (48:39):
It was like 9,000 and something.

Angela (48:41):
Then we're just a little bit higher 'cause we're 10,000,
28 past that sign every day.

John (48:46):
Yeah.
And you know, I don't know, I meanI've always considered Riverton to
be about the same size as us and, butyou know, when you're comparing it to
other places, it's relatively small.
So you have a pretty small police force.
Fremont County Sheriff's Officeis pretty much in the same boat
as all of these rural sheriff'soffices that we talk about.

(49:07):
They have a huge area to cover andnot a lot of officers to do that.
And so, and then with the timing,you're just limited because it's
1983 and there's just not a wholehell of a lot that can be done.

(49:27):
Did you have something you weregonna add on population or something?

Angela (49:30):
Well, no, I was looking up a, like the actual physical size comparison.
Okay.
They are, um,
the population comparison as of the2025 estimates, Riverton is 11,085
with 10.34 square miles of land area.

(49:53):
Cody is 10,370.
So we've gone up even still with10.24 square miles of land area.

John (50:02):
Okay.
So they're just a tiny bit bigger,

Angela (50:05):
but just a tiny bit.

John (50:07):
But then you add to that, it does

Angela (50:09):
not feel that way though

John (50:11):
it always has to me, me, I've always suffered Tim bigger, but, um.
And then, you know, not included.
Maybe because

Angela (50:18):
it's so congested and we're spread out.

John (50:20):
Maybe, maybe not.
Included in that though too.
I, I Is the college population, which

Angela (50:25):
Yeah.
Isn't

John (50:26):
included in the population totals, but adds significant
population to an area.
Yeah.
Even though Central Wyoming Collegeis a relatively small college,
it still has, its adding college.
Yeah.
Quite a few people to the, so, butregardless, it's a relatively small town,
but then you're talking about the crimescene being in Shoshone, Wyoming, which

Angela (50:49):
is population three and a cow.

John (50:51):
Well, I mean, the funny thing of it is, is Shoshone parks,
uh, empty cop car on the road.
So people slow down.

Angela (50:59):
Mm-hmm.

John (51:00):
I mean, I'm not saying they don't have a cop there because they
do have, but it, I think it's one.
Yeah.
And the poor guy can't work 247, so they park that cop car on
the road so that people slow down

Angela (51:13):
just to make you think.

John (51:15):
And then obviously Wyoming Highway Patrol patrols it,
but it's a, it's a tiny force.
It was bigger, it was about twice thesize in 1980, so maybe they had two cops.
I don't know.
But you know, it's a tiny,you have Riverton that's tiny.
You have Wyoming essentially the entirestate population wise, it's tiny.

(51:35):
And then you have the, thiscrime occurring in a very,
very tiny little town.
Yeah.
So it makes investigationa lot more difficult.
Obviously
it's early morning on a remote oil fieldroad outside of Shoshone, the kinda
stretch that doesn't see much traffic.

(51:55):
Just county trucks and rig crews punchingtimecards into the frozen ground.
Two county workers stopped theirplow beside a ridge of compacted snow
blocking part of Muskrat Creek Road.
They step out, shovels in hand,ready to break through the last
stubborn ice jam of the season.

(52:17):
Something slides loose, soft wrong.
They stop one steps forward.
His boots crunched throughthe brittle crust as he leans
over the edge of the drift.
And there she is partiallyburied with the partially buried

(52:37):
where the bank had collapsed.
Skin pale against the snow.
Her clothes, no clothes,no shoes, no jewelry.
Just the frozen stillness of what's left.
They don't know her name yet.
They don't know where she came from, butshe's been out here for days face down,

(53:01):
like someone left her that way on purpose.
So the investigation into Janelle'smurder and that critical refrigerator
failure really compromised it.
And so
it's an unsolved case.

(53:23):
I mean, it is an unsolved casethat is unbelievably cold.
And you know, it's, it's crazy.
I know that I've alluded to thisor I've, I haven't alluded to it.
I've flat out said it multiple times.
Um, but it's remarkable to me, and maybeit's at the forefront of my mind because.

(53:49):
I, I'm right now writing Lisa MarieKimmel's episodes and there's so
much information that it's going tobe stretched over multiple episodes.
Right.
Because there's just so much out there,so much of her story to tell that
it's gonna take up multiple episodes.
And it really struck me because I said,when we first kicked off Rocky Mountain

(54:15):
Reckoning in the introductory episode,I said that Lisa Marie Kimmel's case
really fostered my interest in true crime.

Angela (54:23):
Mm-hmm.

John (54:24):
Because it was just such a slap in the face to me at 11 to
have a victim in Wyoming murdered.
And it's crazy to me how,'cause that was huge.
I remember it.
And like we said, and we'll talk aboutin her episode, unsolved Mysteries
did an episode, which was huge toactually be on Unsolved mysteries.

(54:49):
And then what strikes me is notjust Janelle's case, Belinda
May Grantham's we talked about.

Angela (54:58):
Mm-hmm.

John (54:59):
The Rollins Rodeo murders, but those ones were before I was born.
But this cluster of women andaround between 1980 and 1983 we're
talking about Janelle Johnson.
This week we talkedabout Belinda May Anthem.
We have another one thatwe'll be talking about.

(55:20):
I never heard shit about these.

Angela (55:22):
Yeah.

John (55:23):
It's crazy ago.
Yeah.
And you've got, you know, and don'tget me wrong, Lisa Marie Kimmel
deserves 100% of the publicity thatshe, that she got, that her story got
and her family, you know, like her momwrote a book about it and everything.
And I think that helped a lot, but.
It's just remarkable.

(55:44):
And I know that when we're talkingabout like the missing, murdered
and missing indigenous women mm-hmm.
And I know that, um, minority groups feellike a lot of the times, you know, like a
white woman's case is showcased in a blackwoman's case is not showcased and stuff.
And while I agree that that does happen,I don't think it's a racial thing.

(56:07):
I think that it's because we're talkingabout a white young woman in this case.
Nobody's heard of this.
I grew up in Wyoming.
I never heard about this case.
We talked about another white womanin Belinda May Anthem last week.
I can't even find a picture of her.

(56:29):
I don't even know what she looks like.
And I, I don't know, I don'tthink that it's a race thing.
It's just.
The majority of victims don't matter.

Angela (56:42):
Mm-hmm.
For

John (56:43):
whatever reason that is, I, I can't put my finger on it,
but it seems like it's a fact.
And then every once in a while youget a case that catches the public's
attention or whatever, you know,like with, with Lisa Marie's case,
it was the little miss license plate.
I think that was, whateverwhy that is, I don't know.

(57:06):
But as a kid, that was huge.
Little miss was everywhere.

Angela (57:11):
Just so much easier to remember.

John (57:13):
It is, and it, I think that it pulls at your heartstrings and
frankly, as sick and sad as it is tosay it makes a really good headline.
It, you know, it makes a reallygood intro into the nightly news
section when you can put up a littlemiss license plate and, and people

Angela (57:33):
are like, what is that?

John (57:35):
Yeah.

Angela (57:35):
Yeah.

John (57:36):
It's, and so.
Why it is, I don't really know, butit's remarkably sad that, you know,
a case like Janelle's or Belinda mayAnthems or one of the, I don't know.
I can't, I don't know where we're aton our count right now this season,
but what, like 10 or so women thatwe've talked about, and of those really

(58:01):
Lisa Marie Kimmel's, the only onethat's gotten much publicity at all.

Angela (58:05):
Mm-hmm.

John (58:07):
You know, star Valley, Jane Doe, devil's Gate, Jane Doe, thousand Springs,
Jane Doe, Tammy Terrell, all the Rollins.
I mean, the Rowans Rodeo murders havegotten a little bit more, there's a few
podcasts out there that have coveredthem, but still not a lot of attention.
And it's just remarkable how, andit's not unique to Wyoming, it's

(58:30):
not unique to the Great Basin.
When you get to research in thesecases, it, even though true crime is.
At its peak popularityright now, I would say.

Angela (58:40):
Yeah.

John (58:40):
And you turn on, I don't give a shit what streaming service you want to pick?
Amazon Prime, Hulu, Netflix, a huge, hugeportion of their collection is true crime.

Angela (58:52):
Yeah.

John (58:53):
And they don't even begin to scratch the surface of cases.
No cases.
We'll be doing this a while.
I mean, shit, as long as we're able to, Icould do this 24 hours a day, seven days
a week, 365 days a year, and by the timeI drop dead at, I don't know if I live to

(59:14):
be 112, I won't even have gotten started.

Angela (59:18):
This is true and sad.

John (59:21):
It's incredible.
And you're

Angela (59:23):
gonna try.
I know it.
Oh, I'm gonna damn sure

John (59:26):
try, but it's just so freaking crazy.
And you know, we're in.
A very sparsely populated state.
I mean, we've talkedabout it a bunch of times.
I don't want to just keep bringing it up,but Wyoming's very sparsely populated.

Angela (59:39):
Mm-hmm.

John (59:39):
We have a very low crime rate in comparison to other
places with more population.
It's bigger, but it'sstill, it's very small.
But even my point is in little Podunk,Wyoming with 500,000 people in the
entire freaking state, we have thesecases that I've never heard of.

(01:00:02):
I'm stumbling across these victimsleft, right, and in between.
Yeah.
That nobody's ever talked about.
What does that say for states likeTexas, Alaska, ca, California, right?
New York, I mean, placeswith huge populations.
If we have this many in Wyoming,imagine how many of these that are

(01:00:22):
not getting talked about there arein these more populated states.

Angela (01:00:26):
I've heard a lot goes on in Australia.

John (01:00:31):
I think there's a lot in

Angela (01:00:32):
Australia, or not Australia.
Um, well, Australia too,but I didn't mean that.
I meant Alaska.
You meant Alaska?
Oh yeah.

John (01:00:37):
Yeah.
I mean there's been a lot inAlaska and a lot of that is just
the remoteness of it, you know?
Yeah.
And then you got the idiotbaker dip shit up there.
That was a serial killer.
I can't, Robert, um, I can'tremember his last name.
Dude's a total freaking loser.
You were

Angela (01:00:52):
good with idiot, I think.

John (01:00:54):
But yeah, it's just, I don't know.
It's amazing.
And I don't really mean to getoff on on that, but I do think
it's worth mentioning that
there's so many victims outthere that there's stories
will probably never be told.
And then there's other ones that aretold over and over and over again, and

(01:01:19):
it's just, you know, I mean like, likethe Chris Chris Watts case for instance.
I mean, maybe we'll cover that someday.
I don't know.
But.
I don't know that we will because youcan't, I mean, of all those streaming
platforms, I just call it that, thatI just said Amazon, Hulu, Netflix.
Yeah.

(01:01:39):
There's a Chris Watts specialon every one of everywhere.

Angela (01:01:42):
Or two or four.
Yeah.

John (01:01:44):
Yeah.
And it's just nuts how some ofthese just get told over and
over and over and over again.
Lacey Peterson.
Mm-hmm.
That's another one.
And it, and don't get me wrong, Idon't mean that those victims don't,
don't deserve to have their storytold, scream it from the rooftops.
Absolutely.
But it's just really sad that of allof those really popular, for lack of a

(01:02:08):
better term, cases, there's a few tensof thousands for each one of those.
There's, I don't know,50,000 other, no name.
Nobody cares about cases out there.
It's just remarkable and it'ssad and it really freaking sucks.

(01:02:28):
And then when you get to cases, ofcourse Janelle's is this way, but when
you're talking about cases like Arler,Jane Doe and everything, a lot of
these cases you have the family thatis just driving it and just keeping
it in the spotlight and making surethat it's always in the headlines.
But when we don't evenknow who their family is

Angela (01:02:49):
true,

John (01:02:49):
there's nobody

Angela (01:02:51):
that sucks.

John (01:02:53):
It's just, it's really sad.
But what Janelle's case, the sadreality of it is there's virtually no
evidence after losing that semen sample.

Angela (01:03:11):
Yeah.
There's

John (01:03:11):
no evidence.
And the bite mark, um, could potentiallybe evidence if we were able to find.
A suspect that we could maybecompare it to, maybe they
could make something out of it.
But unlike DNA and unlike fingerprints,there isn't a bite mark registry that

(01:03:36):
they can, you know, submit it to.
So

Angela (01:03:38):
there probably should be.
Now

John (01:03:40):
there probably should be all kinds of registries, but there isn't.
So unless somebody is arrested andsuspected, and the sad part of it is,
that's very unlikely in this case.

Angela (01:03:53):
Mm-hmm.

John (01:03:54):
I mean, we're talking 1983, almost 50 years ago.

Angela (01:03:59):
Ew.

John (01:04:03):
Yeah.
Yeah it is.

Angela (01:04:05):
No.

John (01:04:11):
So the case does remain, um, an open case, but there's
nobody that's really working it.
And as much as, as much as you know,that I will jump all over law enforcement
and drag 'em through the mud for theirmistakes and stuff like that, I don't

(01:04:32):
really see any, in this case, when Ifirst read about the refrigerator thing,
my first instinct was like, you dip shits

Angela (01:04:39):
uhhuh.

John (01:04:40):
But really it was just more frustration than anger
towards them because I don'treally think it was their fault.
Like I said, and I've said this before,you know, I said it in one of our,
one of our previous episodes not toolong ago, that, you know, it doesn't

(01:05:01):
necessarily mean that the departmentdoesn't care about these cold cases if
they're not working on, what it reallycomes down to is what are they gonna do?
There's no witnesses to talk to.
This one is extremely hard, at least insome of these cold cases, when the cold

(01:05:23):
case unit or whatever pulls the case filedown and they start looking and there's a
list of witnesses that were interviewed.
At least they can go back andtalk to those witnesses and see
if they remember anything else.
There's nothing in, in Janelle'scase, sad part is she was last
seen at a truck stop in Sinclair.
So

Angela (01:05:42):
yeah.

John (01:05:43):
Anybody that could have potentially been a witness to that probably got
in their truck and finished their tripto California or and forgot about it.
Well, they probably didn't even know.
Yeah.
They probably didn't evenknow that the girl they saw at
the truck stop ended up dead.
They just saw a girl at a truck stop andthen said hi or whatever, filled their

(01:06:04):
truck up, got back on the interstate.
Yep.
And continued on their way.
And they never even knew that sheever ended up missing, you know?
So we have no witnessesthat we can go back to.
The biggest, we know that thebiggest thing that breaks cold
cases in this day and age is DNA.

Angela (01:06:21):
Mm-hmm.

John (01:06:22):
It's gone.
We don't have it.
So the sad reality is I justdon't have a lot of hope that
this case is gonna be solved.
It's

Angela (01:06:34):
not good.
Sad.
Not at all.

John (01:06:38):
There's a stretch of land.
You don't need to do that yet.

Angela (01:06:41):
I'm just checking.

John (01:06:42):
There's a stretch of land between Shoshone and Manita where the roads
narrow, the neighbors disappear, and thesky feels just a little too big out here.
The rules bend, time slows.
People mind their own business or else.

(01:07:04):
This is isolation by designand it's where some men thrive.
Behind the wheel of a dented old trucksits a man who knows these roads too well.
He's used them to hunt,to hide, and to vanish.
His property is cluttered with rustedcars, scattered debris and secrets

(01:07:26):
buried deeper than the foundations.
His name comes up again and again, notbecause he's confessed, not because
the police ever nailed him for it,but because everything about him fits.
Because Dale Wayne Eatonisn't just a name in a file.

(01:07:49):
He's a living, breathing reminder thatWyoming had its own brand of evil.
And if you're asking who had the access,the depravity, the time and the isolation
to do what was done to Janelle Johnson.
You do not have to look far.

(01:08:12):
So, yeah, we gotta talk aboutthe ship brain yet again.
And I'm sure it just feels like Ijust nail him for every freaking
murder in the state of Wyoming.

Angela (01:08:24):
He's just disgusting enough though.

John (01:08:27):
Yeah, I, it it is.
And you know, to be fair, like in, insome of the other episodes, especially
like the Rollins Rodeo murders and stuff,Dale Wayne Eaton could have definitely
been a suspect, but I think there's onethat fits better in Royal Russell Long.
Mm-hmm.
And so, even as bad as I despise DaleWayne Eaton, the fact of the matter

(01:08:50):
is long is a better fit for those.
But Janelle's is atotally different story.
So, you know, one of the, oneof the big things that connects.
My mind connects Janelle Johnsonto Dale Wayne Eaton is location.

(01:09:11):
You know, when you're talking aboutpicking up a hitchhiker in Sinclair,
Wyoming then, and her body being found inShoshone, Wyoming, you really almost have
to eliminate truckers from that equationbecause unless they're on a dedicated
route that they're running to Riverton.

(01:09:32):
Shoshone, Wyoming is not ona trucking route to anywhere.

Angela (01:09:37):
Yeah,

John (01:09:37):
it's considerably off the interstate.
The nearest interstate to Shoshone isin Casper over a hundred miles away.
Mm-hmm.
So it doesn't fit for it to bea trucker unless, like I said,
it's like a dedicated route.
Maybe they're running groceries fromDenver to Riverton or something like that.
Yeah,

Angela (01:09:56):
there's a Walmart in Riverton.

John (01:09:58):
Well, not in 83.
There wasn't

Angela (01:10:00):
Ah, dammit.

John (01:10:03):
But.
You know, it's not on like a majortrucking thoroughfare like I 80 or I 25.
Yeah.
So it just makes it less likelythat it's gonna be a trucker.
But let's go through some suspectsthat do fit and we already know one

(01:10:23):
of them's gonna be Dale Wayne EatonWyoming's largest Asshat Dale Wayne Eaton.
But we'll, can

Angela (01:10:31):
we make him like a plaque and just send it to him?
Wyoming's largest ass.

John (01:10:35):
Yeah, he's too retarded to know I think at this, at this point, which
sounds mean and I'm, hopefully, I'mhoping it does because I'm being mean.
My point is to be mean.
So yeah.
I don't want to hear, I'm beingmean to Del Wayne Eaton 'cause Yeah.
I'm being mean to Del Wayne eat.
Yeah.
He

Angela (01:10:54):
intends to be mean.

John (01:10:56):
But let's start with Dare with Larry Dwayne Hall.
We talked about this Asshat whenwe did the serial killer series.
I

Angela (01:11:03):
was gonna say he sounds familiar.

John (01:11:04):
So this piece of shit was born December 11th 62.
He's an American kidnapper rapistand suspected serial killer.
Traveled the Midwest for historicalreenactments, targeting young women.
He was convicted of kidnapping JessicaLynn Roach in 1993 in Illinois.
He suspected in as many as 50murders from the early 1980s.

(01:11:28):
He was active during this period of time.
He is, uh, he is my number onesuspect for the next victim that
we'll be talking about that beingNaomi Lee Hitter, who hers was 82.
So we're kind of doing a littlebouncy, bouncy round thing.
But, um, sorry

Angela (01:11:52):
that was a tad funnier than it should have been,

John (01:11:54):
but.
I mean, I think that heprobably killed Naomi Kidder.
He, his MO is strangulationsexual assault, which completely
aligns with Janelle's case.
He did operate in Wyoming nearI 80, but also across the state.
But there's no direct forensicor there's no evidence that

(01:12:17):
links him to Janelle's death.
And the likelihood Iwould say is moderate.
He was in Wyoming.
He has a similar mo, but
it's hard to say because there's nothingthat links him to her or to Shoshone,

(01:12:37):
which to me, in looking at Janelle's caseis a big one because Shoshones nowhere,
and I, that's not a blow to Shoshone,but we're talking about a place that
at its peak was 800 and some people,

Angela (01:12:52):
yeah,

John (01:12:53):
it's tiny.
It's not a place thata lot of people know.
I mean, I've lived inWyoming my whole life.
I don't know any areas inShoshone other than where you fish

Angela (01:13:04):
the fork in the road and where you fish.
Yeah.

John (01:13:07):
Yeah.
I mean it's, it's a greatreservoir for fishing.
Poison is, you know, awesome fishing.

Angela (01:13:14):
Yeah.

John (01:13:14):
But other than that, Shoshone is literally, like you
said, it's a fork in the road.
So I don't know any of these areas.
So it almost to me points tosomebody that's familiar with
Shoshone in the area around Shoshone.
And there's nothing to make methink that this dip shit is the

(01:13:36):
next suspect Is Royal Russell Long?
We talked about him with the RollinsRodeo murders and everything.
Yeah.
Um, I just don't think he'sa good fit for this one.
He could be because.
We know that he did pick up YoungHitchhiker and murder 'em, but

(01:13:56):
it doesn't really fit so much.
Almost all of his victims are somehowtied into, with the exception of
Sharon Bald Eagle, the 12-year-oldgirl that he picked up Hitchhiking
outta Casper are tied to like carnivalsand rodeos and stuff like that.
And again, it's Shoshone.
So we know that this piece of shit wasa truck driver and a Carney, neither of

(01:14:20):
which are gonna take him to Shoshone.
So it, all of these are possibles.
That's why I included him, butI just don't think he's terribly
likely for those reasons.

Angela (01:14:34):
Okay.

John (01:14:35):
And then we have my favorite ass hat, Dale Wayne Eaton.
This piece of shit was born in 1945.
We know that he's a murderer.
He was convicted of LisaMarie Kimmel's murder in 1998.
So not too long after this.
We're talking what, five years.
Um, and as you know, if you'vebeen listening to this series,

(01:14:57):
he's a prime suspect in the GreatBasin murders, but not just by me.
He is a prime suspect in the Great Basinmurders for anybody that has done any
research into the Great Basin murders.
I mean, if you just go look out thereand look up Great Basin Serial killer.

Angela (01:15:14):
Yeah,

John (01:15:15):
he's gonna be at the top of the list on every one of those lists out there.
So it's not just me that thinksthis guy's a royal piece of shit
and we'll be talking about himwhen we do Lisa's case a lot more.
But, you know, the DEA agent thatwas involved in Lisa Marie Kimmel's
case was a hundred percent convincedthat Dale Wayne Eaton was a serial

(01:15:36):
killer and had many more victimsout there that we don't know about.

Angela (01:15:40):
I think you are too.

John (01:15:42):
I'm a hundred percent.
Yeah, I have no doubt, zero doubt.
But what really ties him in forme to Janelle's case is exactly
what I said, kind of pushes Halland long out a little bit for me.

(01:16:05):
And that is Shoshone, becauseDel Wayne Eaton lived in Manita.
And if you're not from Wyoming,these town names don't mean shit.
But
I think, and I'm just going off of memory,I should have looked it up, but I want
to say that Manita is about 20 miles fromShoshone and there's absolutely nothing.

(01:16:29):
There's nothing in Manita.
There's not much more in Shoshone.
But this.
Del Wayne Eaton worked as an oilfield welder, so he would've been very
familiar with oil, with oil roads,with roads that service as oil fields.
He probably would've taken this roadmultiple times during his work in the

(01:16:51):
oil fields and just living in Manita,I, I realized that there's like 20
miles in between Manita and Shoshone,but there's nothing else there.
And so living in Manita definitelywould mean that he would be
familiar with the Shoshone area.
He probably went toShoshone on a regular basis.

(01:17:11):
Shoshone would've been his nearest placeto get gas because there's no gas in
Shoshone if, I don't know if Highlandwould've been selling gas in 83 or not.
There's a little gas station in Highlandthat has kind of gone in and out.
Sometimes, sometimes the, overthe course of years, sometimes
it's been open and it's had gas.

(01:17:32):
Other times it hasn't been.
So during this period, I don't know ifHighland would've been an option but to
run to a store, uh, although Shoshonehas no grocery store or anything.
No, they do have, you know,like a, a convenience store.

Angela (01:17:51):
Yeah.
It's a larger one.

John (01:17:52):
Well, it is now.
Back then it was a We Market, whichI don't know if you remember mm-hmm.
The We Markets.
But the one in Shoshone wasa lot smaller than it is now.
And it was a little, we Market,but it was a convenience store.
It was a convenience store in the earlyeighties, and it would've been a place
where you could have ran up and got,you know, some chips or, you know,
whatever from a convenience store.

(01:18:14):
It would've been a place where you couldget oil for your, for your vehicle.
You could have fueled up with gas.
So.
It would've been a, a location thatDale Wayne Eaton would've gone to
frequently, and it also would'vebeen the only like bar around him.
Mm-hmm.
There's nothing in Manita.
There's nothing inHighland, if you wanna know.

(01:18:35):
Yeah.
I'm trying to find it,trying to find what,

Angela (01:18:39):
uh, Manita and Casper, but my fingers typing on this thing are too
big and I have to keep going back.

John (01:18:48):
Oh, I under, I get it.
I'm pretty sure it's about 20miles from Manita to Shoshone.
But it would've, my point isit would've put him into, into
Shoshone on a regular basis.
I have no doubt about that whatsoever.
And it would've really been, well,actually, I, I think it would've
even been closer for him to go toRiverton to do grocery shopping

(01:19:11):
and stuff than it would've been togo to Casper, although it would've
been pretty damn close to halfway.
I think it still would've.
Faster and closer to go to Riverton.
So he was probably driving throughShoshone on a very regular basis.
And that coupled with whatwe know he does, and that is

(01:19:34):
rape and kill his victims.

Angela (01:19:38):
22 miles.

John (01:19:39):
22 miles from Anita Shoshone.
Yeah.

Angela (01:19:41):
It was like throwing a rock.

John (01:19:42):
Yeah.
And so, um, he would'vebeen in Shoshone frequently.
It matches his mo So for me, withJanelle's murder, it's not just because
he's an absolute shithead that Idespise with every fiber of my being.

Angela (01:20:00):
I couldn't tell.
There's

John (01:20:02):
also a reasoning behind it.
Mm-hmm.
Because he fits.
And then we, you know, Robert,Ben Rhodes, I'm not really
gonna spend much time on him.
He doesn't really fit because he reallywasn't working in this area at that time.
Um,
and you know, you can gothrough the whole list.

(01:20:24):
I did the whole serial killers SEseries for a very specific reason, and
that was because I wanted to discussall the shitheads that were working in
the Great Basin area during this time.
And so, you know, you could grabany one of them and say they're
a potential suspect and they are.

(01:20:45):
But you know, like Ted Bundy for instance,could he, could it have him been involved?
He could have.
He actually, I don't think hecould have, because I think
he was in prison by, um, 83.
So it was, that was a bad pick.
But you know, Robert Van Rhodescould, could he have been?

(01:21:08):
Well, he could have been.
But it doesn't really fit, it doesn'treally fit his, it fit his mo because he
liked to keep 'em for extended periodsin his torture chamber, sleeper cab.
Um, and then he just basically pulledover and kicked him out of the truck.
Clark Berry Baldwin.

(01:21:28):
Yeah.
Same way.
Just kind of kicked him out of the truck.
Now, saying that they don't match,but somehow Del Wayne Eaton does
because his one victim, we know he,he killed and then threw in the river.
I gotta apply the same thing to him.
Janelle Johnson is not a perfect fit tothe way that he left Lisa Marie Kimmel.

(01:21:51):
Yeah.
If we believe that Lisa Marie Kimmelwas his only victim, then maybe
he's not a good match for Janelle.
However,

Angela (01:22:00):
I can't believe he's the only victim.

John (01:22:02):
If you believe or she's the only victim.
If you believe that.
He's very likely suspect for theElco County Jane Doe that we, that we
talked about earlier in this series.
Then they were left in verysimilar ways to Chanel Johnson.
I mean, we know that she was buried.

(01:22:23):
We know that she was under the dirt.

Angela (01:22:25):
Mm-hmm.

John (01:22:26):
Whether, well, yeah, whether that was, whether she was actually
buried or whether she was covered upfrom a previous rainstorm or something.
I don't know.
I know that she was partiallyburied, but that can happen naturally
or they can be actively buried.
So we just, I don't know.

Angela (01:22:46):
And I know that we don't know, but can't you tell if they're,
if they're actively buried, reverses?

John (01:22:55):
Well, one of potentially they could have been able to, but the problem with
Janelle's case is the water washed away.
Enough that it exposed her.
So it was probably very difficultto tell anything about the way
that she was buried by that point.
So, good and bad one, it allowedher to be found two, it almost

(01:23:17):
certainly washed away evidence.

Angela (01:23:19):
Definitely.
Yeah.

John (01:23:21):
So, but my point is it could be Dale Wayne Eaton, maybe it's not,
but he is by far the closest fitof all of the suspects that we've
talked about for Janelle's case.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Um, so if, you know, if we're looking, um,at a, at a profile of a killer, it's going

(01:23:43):
to be somebody that is opportunistic,that sees a young girl on the side
of the road hitchhiking or at a truckstop, whatever you want to, whatever.
We don't really knowwhere she was picked up.
We just know where she was last seencause of death was rape and strangulation.
We know that Dale Wayne Eatondefinitely rapes his victims.

(01:24:05):
Lisa Marie Kimmel was not strangled.
She was beaten and stabbed.
Mm-hmm.
But not, but not strangled.
So as far as that goes, that wouldbe a, a better fit for Hall because
he did strangle his victims.
And then the, uh, the disposal ofthe body, the difficult part, which

(01:24:32):
nails, like I said, is the extendedperiod of time between when, I
mean, it wasn't a long, long time.
It's not like it wasone of our Jane doe's.
But yeah, she wasn't foundimmediately, you know?
And so it does make it a littlebit more difficult and we've lost
our DNA, so that's not possible.

(01:24:54):
What we can say is.
This offender would've likely been betweenthe ages of 20 and 40 DUR in 1983, which
would fit Dale Wayne Eaton, and it reallywould fit all of those that I listed.
Although I'm throwing Robert BenRhodes out, I'm not even considering
him because he just, it doesn't fit, Idon't think it's likely at all for him.

(01:25:16):
But as far as Hall andLong go, they all fit this.
So does Eaton.
They would've been Caucasian again,fits and transient or, uh, a, a truck
driver, somebody that was traveling.
We know that all threeof them fit that profile.

(01:25:40):
Del Wayne Eaton traveled all overthe state for all different reasons.
Yeah.
Larry Hall traveled all overbecause he wanted to play soldier
and dress up and pretend like hemeant something and he didn't.
And Russell Royal Long was a truck driverin a Carney, so he was traveling all over.
So they all fit in that.
The one where, where, again, I'm justrepeating myself, but the one that

(01:26:04):
really sits, um, Del Wayne Eaton apartin my mind is this particular predator
almost had to have had local knowledge.
They were familiar withFremont County's remote areas.
Yeah.
Like Muskrat Creek Road.
Um, it definitely does indicatesomebody that is familiar with the area.

(01:26:25):
It's likely a blue collar worker,and it's way less likely to be a
long haul trucker because it's sofar off of any trucking routes.
It's, he's an opportunistic killer.
He's violent and sexually motivated.

Angela (01:26:43):
Mm-hmm.

John (01:26:43):
He's moderately organized, and I say that because of the, the
high likelihood of a potential.
Grave digging, which wouldsuggest some sort of planning,
definitely knowledge of an area.

Angela (01:26:58):
Yeah.
If

John (01:26:59):
it wasn't planned ahead of time, he would've almost certainly
needed to know that this was a, aroute that nobody really traveled
and he didn't need to worry too muchabout somebody stumbling upon him.
An offender like this would probablyhave previous sexual assaults, whether
he'd been caught for 'em or not likelytheft mi uh, minor violent crimes,

(01:27:27):
possibly abusive in relationships.
And, you know, this definitely tiesinto our greater great basin murders
in all of those different areas.
An offender like this would likelyexhibit antisocial personality disorder.
Um, they'd be impulsive, havean absolute lack of empathy.

(01:27:50):
And probably would have thrill seekingbehavior, likely a sexual sadist.
And I say that because of the bite marksand the prolonged sexual assault, which
does align with both Eaton and Rhodes.
But Rhodes is out because hedoesn't fit anywhere else.

(01:28:11):
Um, this is about power and control.
The strangulation and the rape reflectdominance, which is a common motivation
for sexually driven offenders.
And it's a fantasy fulfillment.

Angela (01:28:27):
Yeah.
Bite

John (01:28:27):
marks indicate some ritualistic or some fetish.

Angela (01:28:31):
Mm-hmm.

John (01:28:32):
Part of this.
And so we know that there, therewould've been some sort of a trigger
likely in this person's life.
We know that in 19, I would haveto look to be absolutely sure, but.
Pretty positive.
It was 1982, Dale Wayne Eaton called thepolice and asked to be locked away because

(01:28:57):
he was afraid he was gonna hurt somebody.
So this is also a period of time where hehas all kinds of turmoil in his marriage.
They're getting divorced for likethe 757th time, 'cause these two
divorced and remarried and got togetherand fell apart more than several

Angela (01:29:15):
punch card.

John (01:29:15):
Oh, they freaking needed to.
And so, but we know that in theearly eighties, right around 1982,
Dale Wayne Eaton is significantlystressed to the point that he's
afraid he's gonna hurt somebody.
That's a big indication for me.
So I would say that with thisparticular killing, Dale Wayne

(01:29:37):
Eaton is a very high likelihood fitfor the murder of Janelle Johnson.
There's no evidence that ties him,but for all the reasons I just
went through, he's by far the mostlikely of the suspects that I named.
Now, is there a possibility ofit being like a one-off killer?

(01:30:01):
You can never say no toa question like that,

Angela (01:30:04):
Shoshone,

John (01:30:06):
but it, it's just, it doesn't fit with that.
It doesn't fit with that.
For her to be taken out whereshe was taken and to be buried
and disposed of the way that shewas really indicates somebody.

(01:30:27):
Experience somebody thathas done this before.
This isn't somebody that's panickingand wanting to get rid of this body and
get the hell out of the area as fastas possible like you would expect if it
was their first kill, you would expectthem to maybe pull off the road, throw
her into the borrow ditch, or somewherewhere she isn't gonna be quickly seen

(01:30:49):
and then get the hell out of there.
True.
This is somebody that is a lot morecomfortable having a dead body in their
presence for a long enough period oftime to potentially be digging a grave.
So this isn't a first time killer.
I just think it's very unlikelythat this is a first time killer.
So then that means that there's anotherserial killer living in the Shoshone

(01:31:14):
area, which I, I've seen no indication of.
I mean, is it possible?
Well, it's possible becausethere are some other.
Unsolved around there, but for a lot ofdifferent reasons, which we will talk
about when we get to their episodes.

(01:31:36):
Del Wayne Eaton mysteriouslyfits really well.
And it's not just because John thinkshe's a piece of shit and hates him.
He's

Angela (01:31:45):
everywhere though.

John (01:31:46):
It's because, but it's 'cause we're, his brother testifies that
he was in these areas during thetime that these women disappeared.
We know for a fact thathe was, that he was there.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, it's no different than whatthey do with any of these serial killers.
They, when I would, when I did the,when we did the serial killer episode,

(01:32:09):
when we talked about all of theirsuspected victims, they're suspected
because they went missing and eitherwere murdered or went missing in a very
similar method to the way that this.
This serial killer or that serialkiller killed the rest of their victims.
So it's a logical Yeah.
Conclusion to say, gosh, I wonderif they killed this one too.

(01:32:32):
Um, and then just running quickly throughhim, I've pretty much covered all this.
So Robert, Ben Rhodes is not a goodfit at all for this, and that's
not because he is not a absolutelyworthless, evil piece of shit.
It's just that he doesn't fit becausehe wasn't in the area and he was,

(01:32:53):
he really was a trucking killer.
I mean, his method of killingwas in the back of his truck.
Mm-hmm.
He's not gonna be in Shoshone, Wyoming,Larry Wayne Hall, he's a moderate fit.
But again, Shoshone doesn't fit.
And I'm gonna say the same thing for long.

(01:33:16):
It doesn't fit to Shoshone.
If we're talking about a victimthat was found in Casper,
Robert, Ben Rhodes would still bea reach for me just because he,
he isn't known to have worked inWyoming off of the I 80 corridor.
Could it be?

(01:33:36):
Yeah, but he's not known to, I 80was the major trucking corridor.
He definitely would've been acrossI 80 multiple different times.
But his primary trucking routeswere down in Texas, up into Utah.
And so he's not a primesuspect for Wyoming cases.

(01:33:58):
Then you have, and I didn't bringthis piece of shit up earlier
because he just doesn't fit.
And that's Clark Perry Baldwin,the son of a bitch that just died.
Thank God.
But

Angela (01:34:11):
bad timing though.

John (01:34:13):
Very bad timing.
But he doesn't die.
Or he doesn't die.
He dies.
He doesn't fit because it'sa little bit early for him.
And again, we know that he didtravel through Wyoming, but again,
he's a trucker and he sticksprimarily to major trucking routes.
Interstates, that's where his victims arefound is on or right off of interstates.

(01:34:37):
So he's not a very good fit for that.
So, you know, when you go through all ofthem, I mean, I hate them all equally.
I think they're all piecesof absolute garbage and a
waste of oxygen for all of us.
And, but when I really look at this,we're probably never gonna know.

(01:34:59):
So speculation is all we have.
I I, it's, yeah, it's really sad.
I mean, you talk about these casesand you talk about 'em with a hope
that one day we're gonna solve them.
And with a lot of these cold cases, Ithink that that's a possibility that,
you know, we're gonna be able to.
One day, Tammy Terrell, the DNA that wehave from Tammy Terrell's case one day.

(01:35:24):
Yeah.
Technology is gonna come to a placewhere we can process that and we're
gonna know the piece of shit's probablygonna be long dead by then, but one
day we will know who killed her.
And you know, you could say the samething for the two Wyoming Jane Doe
that Clark Perry Baldwin killed.

(01:35:44):
We now know that he did thatbecause DNA technology tells us.
And then in other cases, sometimesa witness will come forward
and say, I saw this or that,that breaks the case wide open.
Hopefully we're seeing that inBrianna Maitland's case with these new
witnesses that have just come forwardand said that they saw the, the silver

(01:36:06):
or gray Honda in Janelle's case.
I can't think of anythingthat's gonna break this case.
We don't have DNA.
It's gone.
So

Angela (01:36:17):
sad

John (01:36:19):
we don't have witnesses.
And the idea, I mean the witnessescoming forward in Brianna's case over
20 years after the fact is remarkable.
Almost never happens.
The idea that a witness is gonnacome forward in Janelle's case

(01:36:42):
like 40, 44 years after the fact.
Yeah, I mean, is it possible?
Anything's possible, butboy, it's not very likely.
It is sad as hell, but the reality iswe're probably never gonna know for sure.
So I'm comfortable saying inmy mind, I believe Dale Wayne

(01:37:09):
Eaton is Janelle's killer.
Okay.
'cause it means shit.
It means nothing.
It means John has an opinion.
That's it.
I'm not screwing up any investigation.
I don't think there's anyinvestigation occurring in this case.
I'm not throwing a wrench in nothing else.
I'm just giving myfreaking worthless opinion.

(01:37:29):
I think Del Wayne worthless is the killer.
I think he's the most likelyfit and it means nothing and
he won't face justice for it.
In this world, if you believe thatthere's justice waiting for this
sack of shit in the next, he'lldefinitely face that justice.
Yeah, no doubt.

Angela (01:37:48):
But

John (01:37:57):
so let's put the pieces back on the table.
23-year-old woman with plans gritand a damn good reason to believe
that her life was about to change.
Gets dumped, naked, brutalized,and buried like garbage on a road
that even locals barely drive likewe've talked about, there's no

(01:38:20):
shortage of monsters to consider.
Dale Wayne Eaton piece of shit.
Number one, he gets thelargest share of this pie.
He lived just 20 milesaway in Manita at the time.
His known crimes.
Same kind of isolated roads, sametype of victim, same level of sadism.

(01:38:41):
He didn't just kill Lisa Marie Kimmel.
He tortured her and theway that Janelle was left.
Yeah, it fits Robert BinRhodes, the truck stop.
Killer.
I've already said he's not likely.
He proud.
I 80 picked up women at RestStops and Truck Depots exactly

(01:39:03):
where Chanel was last seen.
Timing and the methods lineup, but there's no direct link.
And the Shoshone locationjust puts him out for me.
The, the unknown local offender, somebodyfrom Shoshone or Riverton, someone who
didn't need a reason to be there, who knewhow to disappear down an oil field road.

(01:39:26):
We talked about that.
Not very likely a one-off killer.
I think that's extraordinarily unlikely.

Angela (01:39:34):
Mm-hmm.

John (01:39:35):
And the rest of them, I mean, we've pretty well covered it.
I, I just, I'm not gonnacontinue to compete at that
horse, but they just don't fit.
So some of those are long shots, someof them are bad fits in general, but
they're all on the board because theGreat basin in that area was a damn
breeding ground for this kind of evil.

(01:39:57):
But here's the part thatreally pisses me off.
And it is, do you have a vent

Angela (01:40:03):
till now?

John (01:40:04):
There was DNA.
It was collected, it was preserved.
It was begged and tagged, andthen it sat in a police evidence
refrigerator that malfunctioned.
So because a refrigerator failed,we'll probably never know.

Angela (01:40:26):
Oh.

John (01:40:28):
So now over 40 years later, we're sitting on a crime scene
with no viable biological evidence.
Left.
No backup, no do-over just a casefile with bloodstains bite marks
and the smell of missed chances.
The killer, he might be dead orhe might be nearly dead sitting

(01:40:49):
in a Wyoming prison right now.
Or he might still be out drivingthose roads, waving at the sheriff and
buying coffee at the same damn truck.
Truck stop.
We don't know.
Because whoever killed JanelleJohnson didn't just take her life.
He outlived the evidence.

(01:41:11):
Janelle Lee Johnson, born February16th, 1960, died in February of 1983.
She was born in Glasgow, Montana,a small town girl with big dreams
and a work ethic that didn't quit.
Janelle Lee Johnson wasn't famous.
She wasn't rich.

(01:41:31):
She didn't come from privilege, but whatshe had was hope and drive and heart.
By the time she turned 23, she wasliving in Riverton, Wyoming, working
at Valley View Lanes and pickingup shifts at a local nursing home,
saving money, building her life.
One day at a time, she had goals, concreteones, she wanted more than what she'd been

(01:41:58):
handed, and she wasn't afraid to chase it.
She made the trip to Denver onher own, not because it was easy,
not because she was careless, butbecause she had ambition, because
she believed that maybe just maybeshe could do something different
with her life, be someone different.

(01:42:20):
She was last heard from, after callingher roommate and workplace to check in.
She had every intention of making it back.
She had people waiting for her.
She had a, she had a lifethat she was returning to, but
someone else had other plans.
What was done to her, what was taken fromher, goes beyond the physical brutality.

(01:42:45):
It was a theft of a future, asilencing of a voice, a destruction
of potential, and for what?
Who knows?
There is no justice yet.
No arrests.
No charges, just cold casereports, failed evidence, storage,
and the cruel passage of time.

(01:43:06):
But through it all,Janelle's name remains.
She was a daughter, a friend, a coworker,a dreamer, and she is not forgotten.
She rests now in HighlandCemetery in Glasgow, Montana.
The place where her story beganand where her memory endures.
One tribute left in her honorreads quote, in memory of our

(01:43:31):
precious daughter and sister.
Our hearts still ache in sadnessand secret tears still flow.
End quote.
She was loved.
She still is, and as long as wespeak her name, as long as we keep
demanding answers, as long as we keeptelling her story, she lives on this.

(01:43:55):
For Janelle and for every youngwoman whose dreams ended on a road,
no one was supposed to travel.
Another name, another woman stolen fromher life, her family, and her future,
and another case buried under decadesof silence, lost evidence and apathy.

(01:44:19):
Janelle Johnson deserved better, betterthan hitchhiking in a world that failed
to protect her better than being discardedon a desolate oil field road, better
than being a cold case in a state wherejustice is too often outpaced by time.

Angela (01:44:36):
If you knew Janelle, if you remember that night in Sinclair or
anything about her route from Denverback to Riverton, we are still listening.
Someone knows something, and it'snever too late to come forward.

John (01:44:49):
You can contact the National Organization of Parents of Murdered
Children at 5 3 7 2 1 5 6 8 3, oremail them at NA LP omc@pomc.org Sure.
To reference her case.

(01:45:09):
And if you want to support the workwe're doing to uncover the truth,
if you wanna submit a tip that youwanna remain anonymous, if you don't
feel like you can call, send us anemail@darkdialog.info at dark dialog.com.

Angela (01:45:25):
We're also on Patreon Coffee and Substack.
Every bit of support helps us keep thepressure on and the spotlight burning.

John (01:45:32):
And if you'd like to get directly involved in casework
research or victim advocacy.
Check out the Adopt a Victim Programor for on the ground searches,
the Dark Dialogue Collective.
All the information canbe found@darkdialogue.com.
We're building a communitydedicated to action.

Angela (01:45:52):
Don't forget to rate, review, and share this episode because the
more people who hear these stories,the harder they are to ignore.

John (01:46:00):
We'll be back next time with another name, another place,
and another fight for the truth.
Until then, make theguilty face the reckoning.

Angela (01:46:13):
Do you want me to try that again?
So.

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