September 2, 2025 • 61 mins
What happens when a bright, responsible 18-year-old vanishes on a road she’s traveled countless times?
In this gripping premiere of Dark Dialogue: Rocky Mountain Reckoning, we begin the haunting case of Lisa Marie Kimmell—known to those who loved her as “Lil Miss.” In March 1988, Lisa left her job in Aurora, Colorado, and set off for a weekend road trip north. She never made it.
With no signs of a crash, no frantic calls, and only a fleeting last sighting by a Wyoming Highway Patrol officer, Lisa’s disappearance stunned investigators and devastated her family. This episode takes you deep into her early life in Montana, her move to Colorado with her mother, the final drive she planned—and the tragic silence that followed.
Hosts John and Angela peel back the layers of this real-life mystery, exposing how jurisdictional gaps, vast Western landscapes, and lost hours contributed to one of the most baffling disappearances of the 1980s.
🎧 Tune in as we retrace her final moments, explore what was known and what was missed, and pay tribute to a life interrupted far too soon.
💡 Want to go deeper?
-
Subscribe to our Substack for episode transcripts and bonus content: darkdialoguecrime.substack.com
-
Support the show and fuel future investigations: patreon.com/DarkDialoguePod | ko-fi.com/DarkDialogue
-
Join our investigative community on Discord
📩 Reach out: info@darkdialogue.com
🔔 Don’t forget to like, follow, and subscribe. Your support keeps these stories alive—and helps make the guilty face the reckoning.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John (00:11):
On August 23rd, 1974, a community was forever shaken by the loss of
a little girl who should have hadher whole life ahead of her Jaylene.
Don Banker was only 10 years old,a child still filled with wonder,
laughter, and dreams of youth.
She was the kind of innocence thatmakes childhood so precious, a curiosity
(00:34):
about the world, a smile that couldlight up a room, and a spirit that
made her family proud every single day.
That summer, she was just like anyother kid at the fair and Rollins.
Enjoying the magic of Carnival rides,the smell of cotton candy in the
air, and the joy of being surroundedby people colors and sounds that
(00:55):
felt larger than life for a child.
The fair is a world of wonder.
For Jaylene, it should havebeen a memory of happiness.
Instead, it became the placewhere her life was stolen.
She was abducted from the veryheart of her hometown, taken from
safety, from family, from love.
(01:16):
In the days that followed, her familyand her community lived through
every parent's worst nightmare.
The uncertainty that desperate searchingand the fear of what might have happened.
Eventually, the truthcame in the cruelest form.
Jaylene's body was foundnear Sinclair, Wyoming.
She had been murdered, her lifetaken before it ever truly began.
(01:41):
Jaylene was not just a victim,she was a beloved daughter.
A young girl whose whole life laid beforeher, a future that might have been filled
with school, dances, graduations, careers,friendships, and a family of her own.
All of that possibility andall of that promise was stolen
(02:01):
in an instant of violence.
And yet what remains is her memory carriedin the hearts of those who loved her, and
in the voices of those who refuse to lether story fade away, even though it has
been decades since that summer evening,the image of Jaylene remains vivid.
A 10-year-old girl who deserves somuch more remembering her is not
(02:25):
just about revisiting tragedy, itis about restoring her humanity.
It is about reminding theworld that she was more.
Than what was done to her.
She was joy.
She was loved, and she was achild whose life still matters.
On this anniversary of herdeath, we honor her by speaking
(02:46):
her name, Jaylene Don Banker.
We honor her by remembering thelight that she carried, the childhood
stolen from her and the grief herfamily has endured ever since.
And we honor her by refusing to allowher story to be reduced to silence.
Today.
We remember Jaylene, we hold space notonly for the pain of her loss, but.
(03:11):
Also for the beauty of who she was.
A little girl with a heart full oflove whose story will always matter.
Though she was taken way too soon,she will never ever be forgotten.
So let's pause here.
Holding Jaylene's memory close,not as just another name in the
(03:33):
history of violence, but as a littlegirl who mattered, who was loved,
and who will always be remembered.
And with her story in our hearts, we nowstep forward into the work of remembrance
and investigation, carrying her legacywith us as we see truth and understanding.
(04:48):
Highways stretch like arteries acrossAmerica, vast open roads where silence
hums beneath rubber and asphalt.
We travel them to get away, to getcloser or to start over, but sometimes.
People vanish on themand no one sees a thing.
This is the story of one such road,one car, one girl, and a journey
(05:13):
that never reached its destination.
March 25th, 1988.
Lisa Marie Kimmel, just 18 years old, getsbehind the wheel of her black Honda, CRX.
She's on a familiar stretch of roadfrom Denver, Colorado where she lives
and works up toward Cody, Wyoming,where her, where her boyfriend waits.
(05:36):
She never arrives.
There are no dramatic tire marks,no broken taillights left behind,
just absence a growing one.
By the time concerns bloom intodread, Lisa has already been missing
for hours, and then days and weeks.
This was no joy, right, gone wrong.
No teenage rebellion.
(05:58):
Lisa Marie Kimmel was a bright,reliable young woman working at Arby's,
following in her mother's footsteps.
A daughter who always came homewith her mom, a friend who didn't
just disappear without a trace.
The case would become one of the mosthaunting disappearances of the late
1980s, A case that sprawled acrossstate lines that exposed the failures of
(06:22):
interstate communication and for nearly15 years remains sealed in silence.
In this episode, we're goingback to where it all began.
We'll take you into Lisa's lifein Colorado, her routines, her
hopes, her reasons for the trip.
We'll map her journey northward,town by town, curve by curve,
and we'll reconstruct the finalhours before she vanished.
(06:44):
We'll also examine the first phaseof the investigation, how her family
fought to make authorities care, howone missing young woman was quietly
deprioritized, and how criticalearly clues were lost to time.
We begin not with a body, but with a road.
A young woman driving through the wideopen west, and the question that would
(07:06):
echo for decades, where did Lisa MarieKimmel go and who made her disappear?
This is episode one of ourmulti-part investigation.
So Angela, how's it going?
Angela (07:20):
Doing well, how are you?
I'm doing all right.
John (07:23):
I'm doing all
Angela (07:23):
right.
John (07:24):
Uh,
Angela (07:24):
we're gonna end it there.
I'm doing all right.
John (07:26):
Back in the saddle again.
Um, you know, I'm still dealingwith the craziness and so
Angela (07:32):
yeah,
John (07:33):
ask the listeners to continue to be patient and thank them
for their patience, but mm-hmm.
You know, all, all in all,I'm doing really good.
You know, the situation that I'mdealing with is going better than
expected, so that's good, you know?
But when you're talking about, I've
Angela (07:49):
been
John (07:49):
worried about that 90-year-old patients, you know, it's not a
quick, not a quick thing at all.
So, but yeah, it, it's really going good.
Angela (08:00):
I'm about ready for him to get up and whip your ass though.
John (08:03):
Yeah.
Well, I'm waiting for it.
I keep encouraging to,
so, but there are some cases thatstay with you because they're
brutal or because they're strangeor because they're unsolved.
And then there's the ones thatchange you, that carve a path so
deep into your memory that they,they, they shape who you become.
(08:25):
And for me, Lisa's case was that one, Iwas 11 years old when she disappeared.
I remember the everything, I rememberthe news reports, the flyers.
Mm-hmm.
All of this stuff.
And I remember not understanding howsomeone could just vanish like that.
And then what happened toher, how that could happen.
I, I mean, I said this before, butthis was the case for sure, that just.
(08:53):
Cemented this true crimething that's inside me.
Yeah.
It it comes back to this one.
Angela (08:59):
Yeah.
And we all know thatquestion never left you.
John (09:03):
No.
That's why you're still here.
It didn't, I mean, we could, I think I.
From my perspective, Lisa's caseis why Dark Dialogue exists.
It, this is where that seed was planted.
Not just a curiosity about crime, buta calling, a a need to understand how
shit like this can happen and Yeah.
(09:26):
You know, it just to, I don't know.
It just, I'll never forget this case.
I, I don't remember a wholelot about, you know, that age.
Mm-hmm.
But this is just cemented into my memory,
Angela (09:39):
right.
Lisa wasn't a stranger on a map.
She was a daughter, a coworker, ayoung woman who should have made
it to Cody and her case it matters.
John (09:50):
This is Dark Dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning, the series wherewe returned to the crimes rooted deep
in the dirt and the snow of the AmericanWest, the ones that never left the hearts
of the people who lived through them.
Angela (10:04):
We investigate the stories buried under snowfall, prairie dust,
and decades of unanswered questions.
The ones whispered through cattlefences, past broken barbed wire,
and across wind lashed highways.
John (10:16):
This appearance isn't always about getting lost sometimes someone's waiting.
Angela (10:22):
I'm Angela
John (10:23):
and I'm John.
Angela (10:25):
And in this episode, we look at the final day.
Lisa was seen her life in Colorado,the road she knew well, and the
moment her absence became unbearable.
For those who who loved her
John (10:35):
we're not pointing fingers at law enforcement.
They worked with what they had,but time, distance, and silence.
Those things protect predators andwe're here to break that silence.
Angela (10:47):
This is episode one, vanished on the Road to Cody,
John (10:51):
and this is Dark Dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning.
The Yellowstone Rivermoves slow in the spring.
Not lazy, just measured like it'sbeen here a long time and has nothing
left to prove just outside billings.
The cottonwoods lean into the waterand the land flattens into the sky.
(11:12):
This is where Lisa Marie Kimmel grew up,and if you ask the people who knew her
back then, they'll tell you that she cameinto the world with her eyes wide open.
There was always somethingcertain about Lisa, even as a kid.
She had that spark, that combinationof kindness and direction you
(11:32):
don't often find in someonestill learning how to drive.
She didn't just grow up in Montana.
She carried it with her.
Big sky, big heart, big plans.
This is where Lisa's story beginsbefore the car, before the headlines.
Before the silence.
So, Lisa Marie Kimmo wasborn July 18th, 1969.
(11:58):
Um, and she was actually born inCovington, in Tipton County, Tennessee.
Um, to her parents, Ronald, her dad,Ronald, who was stationed in the, he
was a US Marine Corps, he was in the USMarine Corps and was stationed there.
Angela (12:13):
Rah
John (12:14):
and Rah.
Yep.
And then her mother was Sheila Kimmel.
And so they were, like I said,they were stationed in Covington,
Tennessee, but they moved toBillings shortly after her birth.
And she was the oldest of three daughtersand had a younger brother named Ricky
Lee Kimmel, who tragically he diedat age three in a tragic accident.
(12:39):
So, yeah.
So this poor, these parentsburied two children.
Angela (12:44):
Dang.
I didn't.
John (12:46):
Yeah.
And then, um, her, her grandmaon her dad's side is the one
that named her Lisa Marie.
And then,
Angela (12:57):
is it because of Presley?
John (12:59):
It probably was, I don't really know that, but it probably was.
But this, this grandmother is also theone that nicknamed her little Miss.
Aw.
So
Angela (13:11):
grandma.
John (13:12):
Yeah.
'cause her grandma would sayMy little Miss Lisa Marie.
So, you know,
Angela (13:18):
tell you that my heartstrings John.
John (13:20):
Yeah.
That's a tough one.
It is.
But that'll be, that'll comeup throughout this case.
I mean, we'll talk aboutit on every single episode.
And if you research thiscase, you actually have better
luck searching Lil Miss.
Yeah.
Than you do.
Lisa Murray.
I
Angela (13:36):
discovered that.
John (13:37):
Yeah, because she is, this is known as the Lil Miss, miss Murders.
You know, as we'll talk about thatcomes because she carried that nickname
her whole life and then had it onher license plate that was a license
plate on her car, said low miss.
Angela (13:53):
She's carried it in death.
John (13:54):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's, it's pretty,I mean it's i's a very touching
sentiment to the whole storyand it really defined the case.
So, like I said, the family moved toBillings, Montana shortly after Lisa
was born and then they stayed there.
Angela (14:13):
So they're still there
John (14:14):
as far as I know.
Yes.
Um, and so they raisedtheir, their children there.
The family was close knit and like Isaid, they endured the loss of her younger
brother, which, you know, had to be.
Unbelievably tragic on for notjust her parents, but for her
siblings as well, for her and hersiblings, like the kids, the parents.
(14:37):
I mean, you know, you lose achild, especially at age three.
I mean, it's, it's just,
Angela (14:43):
yeah, I can imagine.
John (14:45):
So she grew up in Billings and which is a town that we know quite well.
So I guess I should tell thelisteners that why we typically
start with location information.
John completely dropped the balland forgot to ask Angela to do that.
So we will cover the locationinformation in episode two of Lisa's
(15:07):
case, which I don't think is gonnascrew up the flow too bad at all.
But the blame for thatdefinitely falls on me.
Angela (15:13):
Oh, come on.
John (15:14):
And so, but you know, billings is town that it seems like you haven't had
your hands full the last couple of weeks.
This is true, this is true.
I have a bit on my mind, but, youknow, billings is a town that,
um, that we're very familiar with.
We, we live pretty close to it, and it's,it's not our first foray into the area.
We had, um, Lori Bray, who wasmurdered in Laurel, Montana, but
(15:37):
who also grew up in Billings andgraduated high school in Billings.
So, you know, it's kind ofalmost revisiting the area again.
And in Billings is an area thatwe will probably be back to again.
I know that in season two of RockyMountain Reckoning, we will be in Billings
(15:58):
a bit because there are a lot of casesthat I'm looking into for season two
Angela (16:04):
that
John (16:04):
are
Angela (16:04):
shadowing that we will physically be there.
John (16:07):
Most likely.
Yeah.
Most likely.
Most likely.
Season two is gonna have some onsite
Angela (16:12):
dark dialogue.
Field trip.
John (16:14):
Yep.
Yep.
But, um, Lisa was knowing, knowingis being sweet, fun, outgoing,
hardworking, dedicated, and as ahobby, she collected teddy bears.
Which I thought was kind of cool.
Um, and she was viewed as somebodythat had a lot of promise.
(16:34):
She attended and graduatedfrom billing senior high
school, made her class of 1987.
Um, which is another reason I thinkthat this case hit me so hard is because
I had a sister who was class of 88.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I just remember as a kid thinkinglike, that's my big sister's age.
(16:54):
Like
Angela (16:55):
Yeah.
John (16:55):
How can that happen to somebody?
Exactly.
My big sister's age,it's, it blew me away.
And, you know, her pictures of her just,I mean, my oldest sister who graduated
in 80 was, but the, the two pictures,like you put 'em side by side and you,
you can mistake one for the other.
You know what I mean?
(17:16):
Mm-hmm.
They had that eightieshairdo and stuff like that.
Mm-hmm.
And it just.
You know, you see so many ofthose senior pictures of, of
girls in the eighties and the
Angela (17:25):
all aquinette,
John (17:26):
they look so similar, you know, and this was more of the, like the
earlier eighties style, not likethe big tons of hairspray, but more
late seventies, early kinda hairs.
Fair
Angela (17:38):
faucet type thing.
John (17:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you, if you look up LisaMarie Kimmel, um, that picture,
which is her graduation picture, is apretty popular one that's out there.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, but she lived in, in Billingswith her family up until she graduated
and then they, they had a, a bitof a odd situation and we're gonna
(18:01):
get into that as far as with, withwhere mom worked and everything.
Um, so, so we'll discuss that inthe next section because it becomes
very, very important to the story.
Okay.
Because where mom worked ends upbeing where Lisa's gonna work and so.
But you know, I couldn'tfind it and I didn't.
(18:22):
I didn't really, really dig into a lotof background on Lisa, and one of the
big reasons for that is because hercase has been covered so extensively
that first of all, it's out there.
Mm-hmm.
It's not hard to find out all theinformation about her, but number two,
because there's so much informationon this case out there, um, I mean,
(18:45):
we're already gonna be doing multipleepisodes on Lisa's story, and so I just
didn't spend a lot of time on the wholebackground of, you know, her childhood
growing up and all of that kind stuff, so,
Angela (18:59):
right.
Okay.
John (19:00):
The Arby's off Havana Street wasn't glamorous, but it was steady,
predictable, clean uniforms, plasticname tags, fryers that hissed every few
minutes, like they had something to say.
It's where Lisa clocked in fivedays a week, showed up early,
stayed late, got the orders right.
(19:21):
Smiled like the day wasn't wearingher down because that's who Lisa was.
Even when the work was thankless,she cared and just a few miles
away, her mother was workingtoo, pulling long hours, juggling
bills, trying to build a future.
They came to Colorado togetherand they live close to each
(19:42):
other, but not in the same place.
Lisa was building a life paycheckby paycheck, plan by plan.
It wasn't flashy, but it wasworking, and for a while,
just long enough to feel safe.
Lisa believed everythingwas going according to plan.
(20:06):
Lisa's mom worked for a Arby'scorporation and she held a role of in it.
She was a senior management, hada senior management position,
and at some point that position.
Was gonna be based in Denver, Colorado.
I couldn't confirm whether itwas always that way or if it
(20:27):
was a relatively new thing.
Okay.
But she, she had worked atArby's for quite a while.
She kinda worked up the ranks.
She was a regional manager thenshe was a district supervisor.
Then she moved into more seniormanagement, and so she oversaw multiple
Arby's locations and which requiredher to travel to the Denver area.
(20:50):
All the freaking time.
And so she worked in business managementfor 23 years and then, and, and during
that time at, at Arby's, and then finallyshe retired and the position required.
Literally commuting from Billings,Montana to Denver, Colorado.
Which, which
Angela (21:10):
for scale is what, like 11 hours or so?
John (21:13):
Yeah, so it would probably be, um, about nine hours, I would say.
Angela (21:17):
Oh, for those of us who stop occasionally and drive the speed limit,
John (21:21):
well, I know what you're think.
I know what you're thinking.
And that is because of.
Angela (21:26):
It's eight from here and two from there.
Yeah.
John (21:28):
Right.
But if you're driving from Denver toBillings, typically now leases gonna
follow the road that you are thinkingof, but for a different reason.
But if, if you're driving from Denver toBillings, you're typically gonna stay on
the interstate all the way to Sheridan.
Yeah.
And then go over to Billings that way.
And so it would be a little bit faster'cause it's interstate the whole way.
(21:48):
Mm-hmm.
So it's gonna save you a couplehours probably, but yeah,
it's, it's a hell of a drive.
I mean, it is literally all theway across the state of Wyoming.
Yeah.
Almost diagonally.
So like the longest way across thestate of Wyoming is, which isn't
Angela (22:03):
Texas by any means.
Mm-hmm.
But still long,
John (22:06):
we're one of the larger states in the nation.
So it's, I mean, it's a hellof a long ways across there.
I don't know the exactmileage, but it's a long ways.
Angela (22:14):
Do you want me to look up the mileage?
John (22:16):
Again, if you want to.
But anyway, you know it.
She literally commuted from Denveror from Billings to Denver, which is
one hell of a commute that might topout the commutes that I've heard of.
But when we talk about commuting, shewasn't doing it every day, obviously.
Well,
Angela (22:35):
man,
John (22:36):
and then after the whole tragedy, she wrote a hook that's entitled The
Murder of Little Miss, a Mother'sBrutal 16 Year Fight for Justice.
And that's all obviouslyabout Lisa's case.
Yeah.
And then Lisa began working at Arby'spart-time in Billings when she was 14.
(22:58):
And so I, I would imagine that, you know.
That was, she was a shoe in for the job.
Her mom managed it.
But from everything that Ihave learned about Lisa, she
didn't take it for granted.
And she wasn't like the spoiledkid that she worked her butt off.
And, and so that allowed herto then kind of move up through
(23:20):
the ranks with, in, in this job.
And so obviously Lisa, was it herLisa's decision to work at Obvi at
Arby's was almost certainly influencedby her mom's role with Arby's.
And not because it gave herbenefits that other people wouldn't
(23:41):
have, but I think more because.
Arby's treated her mom well and,and allowed her mom to work up
through the ranks and like Isaid, into senior management.
And so I think that waskind of the plan for Lisa.
She wanted to do the same thing, kindof follow in her mom's footsteps.
Did you find the mileage?
Angela (23:58):
Yes.
The way that you werediscussing is 555 miles.
John (24:04):
Okay.
Angela (24:04):
Seven hours, 30 minutes it claims.
Gotcha.
Our ours is much longer.
John (24:09):
Much longer, yeah.
But yeah, I mean it was, it'sstill a hell of a long ways to go.
So, but you know her working at, atArby's from the time that she was 14, but
you know, she probably graduated at 18.
I didn't confirm that.
But you know, I mean, she hadfour years experience at, at that
point, and so that kind of preparedher for future management roles.
(24:31):
So, you know, during the, duringour childhood, she balanced work as.
Work with her studies atbilling senior high school.
Mm-hmm.
And then, like I said, a few minutesago, she graduated in 1987 and when
she graduated, she made the decisionto really not to go to college.
She made the decision to pursuea career similar to her mom's.
(24:54):
Mm-hmm.
And was at least goingto put college on pause.
Angela (24:58):
Right.
You
John (24:58):
know, if the Arby's thing didn't work out, then maybe
she would've changed her mind.
But, you know, I mean, I can completelyunderstand that because everybody thinks
like, oh, working in fast food, you know,but, but her mom probably was making very
good money, senior management at Arby'sand probably had really great benefits
and it was probably a freaking great job,
Angela (25:21):
you know?
And can we normalize that being okay?
Because a job is a job?
Well, a job is you're paying your bills.
John (25:27):
A job is a job.
And I mean, I also, not toget off on too much here, but.
The fact that college somehowsets you up better is not true.
Sets you up for
Angela (25:38):
debt, is what it does.
John (25:39):
I mean, if you're gonna be a brain surgeon, then yeah,
Angela (25:42):
yeah.
John (25:43):
But when I
Angela (25:44):
please go to college,
John (25:45):
when I was teaching, um, I was teaching at the, I was teaching electrical
and every year was the same story.
At least half of my class werecollege graduates that were getting
into the electrical field becausethey couldn't make enough with their
degree to pay off their student loans.
So they had to go become electricians sothat they could pay off the loans they had
(26:08):
to take out to become underwater basketweavers or whatever, whatever nonsense.
They went to college for.
And it is nonsense because youpulled that out very quickly.
If you cannot make enough money topay for the education you got mm-hmm.
It is a worthless freak and you can't
Angela (26:29):
use the education.
Yeah.
John (26:31):
Yeah.
It's worthless.
And so I actually encouraged my kidsnot to go to college unless in grade
school they, well, I didn't reallysay that, but unless they had a
definite goal that required college,like I said, if you are gonna, if
you're gonna go be a brain surgeon,a heart surgeon, a doctor, whatever,
(26:51):
I want you to go to college first.
Kinda need to know afew things about that.
But there's so many things that peopledo that don't require a college degree.
And you know, like Lisa's mom, I imagineshe was making very good money and Lisa
would've I'm sure moved up through theranks into management and then seen
(27:13):
her management roles with Arby's andprobably would've made excellent money.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, so I think that it's, Ithink it's wonderful and I think it's
freaking smart for kids not to start offlife with two or $300,000 in debt Doubt.
But so she obviously, she saw that thisrole as a way to jumpstart her career
(27:35):
into management and, you know, so she,she used, um, she utilized some of
her money and savings and stuff thatshe had to support her move to Aurora.
And then I think it probablymade it a little bit easier on.
Lisa and on her family thather mom was down there as well.
(27:59):
Mm-hmm.
You know, so she was starting off onher own, but not entirely on her own.
She didn't, um, it's not like shemoved all the way to Aurora, Colorado
to work the friars at Arby's.
She actually was, was beginningthat process of moving up and she
was offered a position as a unitmanager at an Arby's in Aurora.
(28:23):
That's why she took it, because thiswas gonna be her first real break
into that management, you know, and,and that was setting her up for,
for, you know, the senior management,everything we just talked about.
So our responsibilities would'vebeen to manage the daily operations
of the fast food location.
And this is, I mean, this is really theway that almost all franchise operations
(28:47):
kinda start out with, you start outmanaging one store and then maybe.
You manage two stores and then mm-hmm.
You manage three and thenmaybe you do a region.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
It just kind of keeps growing from there.
And so her work schedule was full-timeby now and it included the sh shifts
(29:08):
ending in the afternoons or evenings.
I couldn't find exactly, but youknow, typically the, typically the
manager isn't at the location atmidnight, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
She's probably working more of the dayshift time period and probably Monday
through Friday, and then she would'vehad assistant managers that would've
assisted with the other hours of the open.
Angela (29:31):
But a manager's job is never done and your phone rings constantly.
John (29:34):
Oh, you're freaking telling me constantly.
And one of the main reasons that I gaveup my general manager position was.
When I was sitting at my parents'table on Easter Sunday doing payroll,
Angela (29:47):
and
John (29:48):
I was like, this is insane.
If I'm gonna do this shit, I'mgonna do it for my own business.
Yeah.
Not for somebody else's, but she tookthat role right after she graduated in
1987, and then she worked it up untilthe time that she disappeared in 88.
And she was described consistentlyfrom all the way from the time she
started at 14, all the way throughoutas being hardworking and very dedicated.
(30:13):
And it really fed heroutgoing and fun personality.
And so her mom and her decidedthat, um, I imagine that her mom.
Already had an apartment in, in this,in this complex, in the Denver area.
And then when Lisa made the movedown there, she rented another
apartment in the same complex.
(30:35):
Okay, so she did not live with her mom.
She had her own place.
She was starting her own life.
She was doing what so many freshgraduated 18 year olds were doing.
But.
You know, like a lot of kids are gonnamove across town from mom and dad.
This gave her the opportunity tohave mom close to the support.
(30:56):
Yeah.
But still, you know, start herlife, be an adult, do her own thing.
Have her own place.
It's very cool.
It's really a neat thing.
Yeah.
Thing.
Yeah.
And so they live close to eachother, but, and I don't know exactly,
um, how large the complex was, butyou know, a lot of those apartment
complexes in cities as large asDenver are big cities on themselves.
(31:19):
Yeah.
You could live pretty privately inthe same complex, you know, where,
'cause you might be clear, I mean,you could be 70 blocks away from each
other, you know, and so it's not likethey were living across the hall, but
I thought it was a really neat Yeah.
Setup because it allowed them to,it allowed mom to kinda keep an eye
(31:41):
on, on daughter and, you know, beavailable when she's like, mm-hmm.
You know, baking her first cake orwhatever, and it's like, yeah, uh,
this thing just exploded in my oven.
What do I do?
You know?
So
Angela (31:54):
Sounds like that's happened to you at time.
John (31:56):
Oh yeah.
Well, I mean, when I was, when I firstmoved out, I attempted to put, I ran,
I didn't, I was broke like every youngkid out on their own for the first time
and I didn't have dishwasher detergent.
And so since clothing detergent looked thesame, I figured it would operate the same.
(32:16):
And I started my dishwasherand I am not shitting you.
Half of my kitchen was bubbles.
Yeah.
Like, it, it was probably three feethigh all the way across the kitchen.
Angela (32:28):
Yeah.
John (32:29):
It's amazing how many bubbles come from laundry de desserts.
Oh, yeah.
In a dishwasher.
And you, and you cannotreplace one with the other.
It doesn't matter how they look.
Angela (32:38):
Yeah.
Public service announcement.
John (32:41):
But yeah, I mean, we all do dumb shit like that.
And that's, you learn the lessons.
That's how we learn notto do dumb shit like that.
But yeah.
It's what, our twenties or four.
But, so the kind of, the way that the,that things operated was both mom and
daughter were, would live the week in theDenver area and then they would commute
(33:03):
back up to Billings on the weekends.
They would usually leave theDenver area on Friday evening.
Angela (33:10):
Dang.
John (33:10):
And then they would be back to work by Monday morning.
So it's tough.
I, there is no way in hell I would do it.
I
Angela (33:18):
don't see
John (33:19):
any rest in there at all.
None.
I mean, you know, when I was livingin Denver or in the Denver area.
There's no way I would come homeunless I had at least four days.
Yeah.
Because two days are taken up driving.
Yeah.
You know, because it's a solid eighthours and, and so it's not even worth
(33:41):
it for to come up for a weekend.
No, for that was my opinion anyway.
But they did, for them it worked.
And so that left Dad Ron, um, athome with the younger siblings,
sisters, Sherry and Stacy, who werestill going to school in Billings.
And so I imagine that it was asituation that was bred from not wanting
(34:05):
the kids to have to move schools.
Angela (34:07):
Yeah.
John (34:07):
You know, and so mom was probably offered this position and so
the family probably talked about it.
I don't know this for sure, but I canalmost guarantee that the conversation
was like, well we can do almostanything for a couple years Yeah.
Or whatever.
'cause I've had those and thenwhatever the future looked like, I
would imagine that probably dad wasgonna move to the Denver area once
(34:31):
all the, all the kids were graduated.
You know?
So it was probably a greatopportunity for her to move into
a senior management position.
Probably make a lot more moneyand like so many of us do.
You look at a situation and you're like,well, I couldn't do it for the rest of
my life, but I can do it for a year.
I could do it for six months.
Yeah.
Or whatever the time may do.
Angela (34:51):
We know what dad did?
John (34:53):
Dad was retired from the Marine Corps.
Angela (34:55):
Oh, oh yeah.
John (34:56):
Yeah.
Angela (34:56):
Rah.
John (34:56):
Okay.
Yeah.
So, um, and I think it was, it had to havebeen a really kind of a cool experience
for both mom and Lisa too, because.
It allowed them to, it's big bonding, likebond as mom and daughter, you know, and,
and from everything I understand they hada great relationship anyway, but it is a
special, unique thing when you have thatone on, one-on-one time with your parent.
(35:21):
You know, when you're not anonly child and you get a be
off with mom or off with dad.
Mm-hmm.
Just the two of you, you know, it's, yeah.
And I, with so many, with, I thinkwith most kids, the dynamic changes
once you graduate high school.
And it should, where, and thishappened with my kids too, is
once you get outta high school,once you're out on your own, then.
(35:43):
You don't have the same parentchild relationship, you start
building more of the the
Angela (35:48):
friend
John (35:48):
friendship.
Yeah.
You know, and yes, you're always theparent and yes, you're always there
to give advice, but now's the timewhere we can be friends 'cause you're
gonna make your own damn decisionswhether I agree with them or not.
So, and
Angela (36:00):
I'm not responsible.
John (36:01):
I'm not responsible, so let's just be friends.
Yeah.
So I imagine there was a lot of that,um, you know, going on between there.
And so, you know, like you said,it was a hell of a freaking
drive eight hours one way.
Yeah.
And they were typ typically leavingafter work on Friday, driving all the
(36:21):
way up there and then, yeah, I mean,you would have to leave of course.
I guess they didn'tmind driving late, but.
You know, if it was me, there's no wayI'd be leaving later than noon on Sunday.
Angela (36:34):
Yeah.
John (36:34):
You know, but maybe they were two or three in the afternoon when
they took off, but they almost alwaysjust drove together and, you know,
anytime you're researching this, you,you don't get all the little things.
I'm sure there were times that Lisa waslike, I'm not going home this weekend.
I'm gonna stay here and,you know, other times I
Angela (36:53):
need to sleep.
John (36:54):
Yeah, yeah.
But as a general rule, they would drivetogether and spend the time, you know,
chatting in the car and stuff like that,and then go spend the weekend at home with
the family and so and so, it was a unique.
Arrangement for sure.
But I think it was a really kindof a cool and a special one.
(37:14):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
So, I don't know.
It started like a thousand weekendsbefore a planned a conversation, a quiet
compromise between mother and a daughter.
Lisa's mom had a flight to catch.
Normally they'd be making thedrive to Billings together, but
(37:37):
this time Lisa was going home.
She was old enough responsible.
She had the car routine memorized,and she had a boyfriend waiting at
the other end, seven hours, giveor take, just her in the open room.
And that day the plan kicked into motion.
Lisa said goodbye at work, toldpeople where she was going, packed
(37:58):
up the car, locked the door.
She wasn't running away,she wasn't chasing anything.
She was simply going tovisit someone she loved.
It was supposed to be a normalweekend, but we all know what's coming.
And so did the road.
So Lisa had a boyfriend and itwas a relatively new relationship
(38:20):
with a, with a guy by the nameof Ed Roche, who lived in Cody.
And Ed worked for MarathonOil Company, which being from
Cody, I can tell you, it's not
Angela (38:31):
to say that name sounds very familiar to me.
John (38:34):
Uh, yeah.
And I'm not gonna, I'm notgonna throw any first names
out, but I People under the bus.
Yeah.
I don't know for sure if he wasrelated to the, to the rocess that
we're thinking of or not, but.
I've, I've wondered about that.
It's
Angela (38:52):
a pretty tricky last name, not to be related.
John (38:54):
Yeah.
But anyway, he worked for Marathon andfor those of us that grew up in Cody
Marathon, employed probably three quartersof this freaking town at one time.
I don't know if you remember as a kid, but
Angela (39:06):
my grandfather was,
John (39:07):
there was a time, well all Marathon issued red trucks back then.
Mm-hmm.
And there was a time where it was likeevery other house in town had a red
marathon truck parked in front of it.
The huge office building that wasbuilt here housed all of their offices.
I mean, this was a majormarathon hub at one point.
Angela (39:25):
I still have one of his hard hats.
John (39:27):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I worked for Marathonas, as a private contractor.
I worked as a, as an electrician,privately contracted, but
in marathons, oil fields.
So, I mean, at one timethey were huge here.
Angela (39:41):
Mm-hmm.
And
John (39:41):
now they're not even here at all, which is crazy.
The.
The big office buildingis now our librarian.
Angela (39:48):
It's still called the Marathon building in Will forever.
It
John (39:51):
will always be the marathon building.
Yep.
So, but Ed and Lisa met, um, they hadbeen introduced by mutual friends, um,
and apparently this friend was named Carlaand so they both were friends with Carla.
So Carla kind of got 'em togetherand, you know, they were doing the
whole boyfriend girlfriend thing.
(40:12):
Like I said, it was arelatively new relationship.
Lisa viewed it as serious enough that.
She was going to introduce Ed to herparents for the first time that weekend.
So the whole idea was, it was Easterweekend, so Easter was gonna be, and
so it was, March 25th was a Friday,so Easter was gonna be the 27th.
(40:34):
And her, the plan was she was gonnatake that longer route from Denver to
Billings, like you had mentioned earlier.
And she was gonna leave DenverDrive to Cody, grab Ed and I'm sure,
you know, stay and sleep in Cody.
And then they were gonna get upand drive on up and spend Easter
weekend with her family in Billings.
(40:57):
And this would've been the first timethat Ed was gonna meet her family.
So.
You know, that's a big weekend inan early relationship like that,
you know, when going over a holiday.
Yeah.
Gone to the point where it'stime to meet mom and dad.
That's, that's a pretty big deal.
And you know, like I saidearlier, her mom, Sheila,
typically, they drove together.
(41:19):
And so, but this particular weekend, um,she had, Sheila had a scheduled ski trip,
which meant that she needed to be homeearlier than she could if she was driving.
And I didn't, I didn't lookfor all the specifics of it and
everything, but she did leaveDenver on Thursday, March the 24th.
(41:42):
And, and she decided to fly thistime instead of drive because
she needed to get home quicker.
And then I'm sure that Lisa waslike, well that's fine because
I need to go pick up Ed anyway.
So, you know, it makes perfect sense.
And so mom took off on Thursday andthen Lisa was gonna work and then
drive up on Friday evening aftershe got off work, which would've
(42:05):
been about four 30 her normal.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, the quickoverview of the entire timeline
is we've already talked about mom.
She's gone, she got on a flight thenight before she took off, and then um,
Lisa got off work in Aurora a littleafter 4:30 PM on Friday the 25th.
(42:27):
And she took off.
And then, um, so that would'vetaken her from Denver.
She would've taken I 25 north up intoWyoming from Cheyenne up into Casper.
Then in Casper, she would have taken thebig left turn, got off the interstate
onto the godforsaken stretch of highway.
(42:50):
That's the longest in the worldbetween Casper and Shoshone.
Angela (42:54):
Four hours of nothing.
John (42:56):
Of nothing, which coincidentally goes right past Manita.
So if you've been listening to any RockyMountain Rec, Rocky Mountain Reckoning
episodes, you know about Manita.
And so that would've taken herfrom, and it's kind of funny because
we've covered most all of these.
Areas already on Rocky MountainAir, on Rocky Mountain Reckoning.
(43:18):
So, mm-hmm.
I didn't plan this season to belike the geography of Wyoming
Angela (43:23):
season,
John (43:24):
but
Angela (43:25):
hell, why not?
John (43:26):
It kinda turned out that way.
But, so then she would've gone fromCasper to Shoshone and Shoshone, she
would've turned to Thermopolis, and thenThermopolis turned to go up into Cody.
So that's kind of the routethat that was planned and it,
Angela (43:40):
it would've
John (43:40):
taken
Angela (43:41):
her plus, oh man, you missed Mai.
Like, it doesn't matter.
John (43:45):
Well, I missed a lot.
I missed Highland too.
So what?
Let me tell you, every doubt,
Angela (43:51):
yes.
Dad blast it
John (43:53):
so that that would've taken her roughly eight hours or so and
she kinda had a little bit of a leadfoot, which will come up in the story.
So she probably maybe could havemade it a little faster than that.
But, um, and, you know, nighttimedriving and she's by herself
and, you know, I, I don't know,
Angela (44:14):
jamming to music
John (44:15):
you faster.
I don't know Lisa, Lisa personally,but when I was, I mean, I'm still this
way, but you know, when you're thatage, a lot of the times you don't stop.
You don't have to get out and go to thebathroom every five miles or whatever.
You just drive until you get there.
So you don't really stop unless yougotta have good gas, you stop, get gas.
If you've gotta pee, you pee back inthe car, back on the road, you're out of
(44:36):
there, you know, so she, you know, shecould've made it a little bit faster than
eight hours, but right around that area.
Then she was gonna pick up Ed,spend the night at his home in Cody,
and then continue on to Billingsthe next day for the big for,
you know, Easter with the family.
Time didn't stop.
(44:57):
When Lisa went missing,it just got louder.
The hours ticked by firstwith quiet assumptions.
Maybe she stopped for gas,maybe she hit traffic.
But as time went on, thosemaybes turned to worry.
Lisa was supposed to call.
She always did.
Her mother waited by the phone,checked the clock, tried not to
(45:20):
panic, but by the next morning,panic had settled in like a second.
Skin calls went out.
Police were contacted.
Once they found out that theboyfriend hadn't seen her, no one had.
And then came the detail,the last confirmed sighting.
A black Honda pulledover in Douglas, Wyoming.
A girl matching Lisa's description.
(45:41):
At a first interstate bank drive upATM, quiet, controlled, and then gone.
Reports were filed, officers took itseriously, but out there in the fastness
of Wyoming serious isn't always fast.
This was the moment that it all began tochange when Lisa Marie Kimmel went from a
(46:02):
girl en route to a girl no one could find.
So we know that she left, um, a leftAurora, Colorado sometime shortly
after four 30 and headed north.
Um, and then around around nine to 90 6, she was pulled over for speeding
(46:25):
on I 25 somewhere near Douglas and.
She had that interaction with theWyoming Highway Patrol and his,
his name was, um, officer Al Lesko.
And I've heard of this happening inother states, and I didn't realize
that Wyoming did it, but I'm notsurprised that they did either.
And that is that if you get pulledover for a speeding ticket and you
(46:49):
have outta out-of-state plates and anOUTTA state license, they make you pay
for the ticket before you can leave.
And that's pretty commonplace.
And that was the story thatnight when Lisa got pulled over.
She got her ticket and he islike, and you have to pay this.
And so she was like, I ain't got no money.
Um, and so it doesn't mean
Angela (47:07):
to an idea, follow me to an a
John (47:08):
tm, follow me to an ATM.
Yep.
And that's exactly what happened.
He followed her to the ATM inDouglas and then, but for whatever
reason, she couldn't draw the cash.
I don't know, I don't knowwhat the situation was, why
the ATM wouldn't take her card.
Um, this was 1988.
Angela (47:28):
Mm.
John (47:29):
And I, I still run into this from time to time, but back then I
remember there was a ton of ATMs thatwould only take this card or Oh yeah.
These cards.
Mm-hmm.
You couldn't use your, at m at justany, you were ATM or you couldn't
use your ATM card at just any ATM.
And so it, it very well might've beenthat situation, but whatever it was,
(47:52):
she couldn't pull the money and so thecop was like, alright, well I'm just
gonna let you go ahead and go and hemailed the money in, you know, and I
think that, I think that officers didthen and probably still do have that
discretion to be like, alright, wellI've probably tortured this poor, we
Angela (48:10):
tried, yeah.
John (48:11):
You know, I probably tortured this poor girl long enough.
She seems like a respectable young lady.
I'm not gonna worry too much about it.
And certainly not taking herto jail, you know, so, which.
Angela (48:22):
Maybe it saved her life.
If he had
John (48:24):
probably, yeah, it probably would've.
But he had no way of knowing that.
Angela (48:28):
I mean, that's true.
I wasn't blaming
John (48:30):
Oh, I know you weren't.
I know you weren't, butyou're absolutely right.
I mean, it's too bad he didn't puther in jail because she'd be alive.
Yeah, no doubt about that.
And so shortly, th shortly afterthat, so shortly after nine o'clock,
she bids farewell to the, to officerl Lesco and continues her way north.
(48:51):
Um, and that was it.
She disappeared sometime after that.
But we don't know when.
We still don't know when,but we do know that.
Ed was worried when she failed to arrive.
And you know, we've all been in thesituation that this poor guy was in,
(49:11):
where you're sitting there waitingon somebody that's traveling and the
hours are ticking by, and you alwayskind of have it in your mind, you know,
okay, well I know it's this many hours,so I should expect her at this time.
That time comes and goes.
And then you're like, well, maybe,you know, maybe she got pulled over.
You know, maybe it tooka little bit of time.
So then you wait another hour and then,I mean, every hour you get a little bit
(49:35):
more worried, a little more rany, andyou, pretty soon you run out of excuses to
tell yourself, you know, it's like, well,maybe there was, you know, a bad storm.
Well maybe there.
And then pretty soon you're like,okay, there's nothing that would've
taken this long without a phone call.
Yeah.
You know, her car broke down.
Okay, fine.
But she should have called by now.
(49:55):
So he ends up calling the familyin Billings and being like, uh.
Lisa's still not here.
And he was freaking the hell out.
That had to be a very tough call to makebecause remember, he'd never met them.
Never met them.
Yeah.
So, but he did, I mean,he was a standup guy.
He called mom and dad and was like,I'm really freaking worried about her.
(50:16):
And then, so that would've been earlySaturday morning, March the 26th.
And so she was officially reportedmissing that same day mom and dad, they
got on it and they reported her missing.
And then from March 26th toMarch 31st, she was just gone.
Um, no contact, no sightings.
(50:37):
And so obviously theirfreaking the hell out.
Every day that goes on, getsworse and worse and worse.
They continue to search, no results.
And then on April 2nd, 1988,a body is discovered in the
North Platte River near Casper.
But, and it was, it was a shorttime after that that that body was
(51:01):
confirmed to be Lisa Marie Kimmel.
And so from, so from March 26th to April2nd, there's this missing chunk of time
where we don't know what, what's going on.
She disappeared.
Her body wasn't found until April 2nd.
And when the body was found, it wasvery obvious that she had not been in
(51:23):
that location, that length of time.
So she was found just off thegovernment bridge in Casper.
If you know where the governmentbridge is in Casper, it is not like
a secluded way out of the way spot.
There's virtually no way a body couldbe laying near it for any length
of time without being discovered.
(51:44):
Because it's kind of in town.
So, and then obviously the autopsyresults and everything confirmed
that, that she had not been deadvery long when her body was found.
And so, you know, the investigationstarted and they confirmed that the
last known citing was in Douglaswhen she had that interaction
with, um, trooper Al Lesko.
(52:06):
And, you know, it was a little bit longerstop than it maybe could have been because
he had her go ahead and go to the ATM andattempt to draw the cash and everything.
But there was, he reported no anomalies.
Lisa was alone.
There was no other vehiclesor persons involved.
It was a very routine encounter with,you know, the little thing with the
(52:29):
extended payment attempt and the ATMcard, not taking her card and all that.
That was a little bit of an outlier.
But other than that, it wasvery routine that, and the cop
reported that there was nothing.
Um, unusual at all about it.
She didn't seem like she was underduress or anything like that.
(52:49):
And so, you know, the descriptionthat went out when she was
missing, did you find something or,
Angela (52:56):
I was just looking at the government bridge.
John (52:57):
Oh, do, do you, do you recognize it or, mm-hmm.
Angela (53:00):
Yeah.
John (53:01):
Um, you know, Lisa was described as an 18-year-old white
female, five foot three, 110 pounds.
She had brown hair and eyes andwas driving that black 1988 Honda
C-R-X-S-I with Montana plate,little Miss L-I-L-M-I-S-S, which
just exploded during this time.
Angela (53:23):
Yeah, I bet.
John (53:24):
Um, I remember watching the news every night.
I, a little guy and they would have aMontana license plate on the little,
you know, a little picture by the
Angela (53:34):
picture.
In picture.
Yeah.
John (53:35):
Yeah.
It would pop up.
And it was a little Miss Montanalittle miss license plate.
It is just burned into my memory.
I'll carry with me my entire life, youknow, and the family actively reached
out to the local media, both in Montanaand in Wyoming to spread awareness.
I mean, they got busy right awaydistributing flyers, doing interviews,
(53:57):
um, on the TV stations and allthat, you know, so Billings had.
Two or three at that time,I can't remember for sure.
I think they had three.
They had A, B, C, C, B, S,and NBC out of Billings.
Casper had a TV station back then as well.
I know that they were onall of those stations.
I don't know, they probably wereon, you know, Cheyenne's as well.
(54:21):
I mean, they wereeverywhere they could be.
And this was a huge story.
It blew up immediately 'cause I,as an 11-year-old, knew about it.
Before the body was found,I, I learned about it almost
immediately when she went missing.
And so I remember like the whole searchand all, I remember the whole damn thing.
(54:44):
Yeah.
So it was huge.
I
Angela (54:46):
remember you telling the story that, do homework.
Watch the news.
John (54:50):
Yeah.
Yep.
It is so freaking true.
So, you know, it was, um, it was insane.
As a, as a kid, it alteredmy reality for sure.
So, but I think that that's a, agood place to close with the story.
Um, like I said, this, there's no way todo this without doing multiple episodes.
(55:15):
And so we'll dive back in on a lot ofthe spec, the specifics around finding
her body and stuff in the next episode.
But we'll close this one out hereso when someone disappears, time
becomes something else entirely.
It stretches, warts, breaks.
(55:38):
Every hour.
Lisa was missing, felt likea question without an answer.
Her car didn't turn up, her voice didn'treturn, her bank account didn't move.
And for her family, especially her mother,it was a kind of terror that wrapped
around the chest and didn't let go.
Lisa's mother called hospitals, calledlaw enforcement, called friends.
(56:01):
She stayed on the line until the silencefelt like punishment until someone
finally said what she already knew.
Lisa was missing, but missingisn't the same as lost.
Not yet.
In those early days, there was hope.
Hope that maybe Lisa had pulled off theroad, hope that maybe she was with someone
(56:23):
and just hadn't had a chance to call.
Hope that she'd walk through thedoor, that the phone call would
come, that the car would reappear.
Search efforts began local lawenforcement, retraced known routes.
Her photo was sent to agencies acrossstate lines, but this wasn't Denver.
This wasn't a city withcameras and foot traffic.
(56:45):
This was wide open American West,and the distance between clues was
measured in miles, not minutes.
There was one real lead, a Wyominghighway patrolman remembered pulling
over a black Honda, CRX near Douglas.
Another said that they thought they sawsomeone matching Lisa's description at
(57:06):
a convenience store and then nothing.
This was just the beginning of a casethat would cross jurisdictions strain
relationships and haunt not justa family, but an entire community.
It was no longer a latearrival, no longer a delay.
It was a disappearance, andsomewhere out there on those open
roads under that vast Wyoming sky.
(57:29):
Lisa Marie Kimmel was waiting to be found.
She liked rainy days, not thecold kind, not the storms, but the
kind where the clouds hang low andeverything feels steel, where the
world softens just enough to breathe.
Lisa Marie Kimmel was the kind ofperson who brought her own weather
(57:50):
with her warm when things got cold.
Clear-eyed.
When others looked away,she didn't need a spotlight.
She made people feel seenjust by standing beside them.
She was 18 years old.
She worked, held her own, managed herdays with the kind of responsibility
that made her family proud and surprised.
(58:11):
No one who knew her.
Her car was more than just transportation.
It was freedom, black, polished, distinct.
She drove it like she had somewhere worthgetting to, and that's because she did.
Lisa had dreams, big ones future, a lifethat she hadn't even begun to sketch
out fully, but that she believed in.
(58:32):
And more than anything, she believed inpeople, that they do the right thing,
that they look out for each other.
That kindness wasn't weakness.
That belief, that's what makes whathappened to her so devastating because
Lisa wasn't naive, she just didn't livelike the world was something to fear and
(58:54):
maybe, maybe she shouldn't have had to.
We tell these stories, not toreopen wounds, but to remind
the world who was taken.
Lisa wasn't a mystery, she wasa daughter, a friend, a light,
a. And she should be here.
We remember her, not just because of howshe died, but because of how she lived.
(59:17):
Lisa's story is just the beginningfor some of you, but for her
family, for the people who livedthrough it, it's never stopped.
This is what this series is about, notjust remembering what happened, but
honoring the people that it happened to.
Angela (59:38):
Next episode, we'll walk you through the discovery that broke this
case open when Lisa was finally found.
We'll also begin unpacking theevidence left behind and what it
did and didn't tell investigators.
John (59:53):
If this episode moved, you share it, post it, text it.
These stories need light and yourhelp to shine the light on it.
Angela (01:00:02):
You can also support the show directly by show joining our Patreon
at patreon.com/dark dialogue pod orvisiting coffee.com/dark dialogue your
support fuels our investigations andkeeps these cases in the public eye.
John (01:00:18):
For deeper dives, episode transcripts and bonus content, subscribe
to our newsletter at substack atdark dialogue crime.substack.com.
Angela (01:00:29):
And if you want to be part of the conversation, our discord is open.
Join us on discord sharetheories, talk about the case,
or just be with others who care.
John (01:00:40):
And I might also mention that there is now a forum feature on the
website so people can get in thereand talk on the website as well.
And there is also, um, a link onour website to our Discord channel
so you can just see if anybody's onDiscord by logging onto our website.
And as always, you can alwaysreach us at info@darkdialogue.com.
(01:01:03):
We read every message.
Angela (01:01:05):
And if you haven't already, like follow, subscribe,
wherever you're listening.
It really does help keepthese stories alive.
John (01:01:13):
This has been Dark Dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning.
I'm John.
And I'm Angela.
We'll see you next timewhen the road leads deeper.
Until then, stay safe, stay sharp, andmake the guilty face the reckoning.
On August 23rd, 1974, a community was forever shaken by the loss of
a little girl who should have hadher whole life ahead of her Jaylene.
Don Banker was only 10 years old,a child still filled with wonder,
laughter, and dreams of youth.
She was the kind of innocence thatmakes childhood so precious, a curiosity
(00:34):
about the world, a smile that couldlight up a room, and a spirit that
made her family proud every single day.
That summer, she was just like anyother kid at the fair and Rollins.
Enjoying the magic of Carnival rides,the smell of cotton candy in the
air, and the joy of being surroundedby people colors and sounds that
(00:55):
felt larger than life for a child.
The fair is a world of wonder.
For Jaylene, it should havebeen a memory of happiness.
Instead, it became the placewhere her life was stolen.
She was abducted from the veryheart of her hometown, taken from
safety, from family, from love.
(01:16):
In the days that followed, her familyand her community lived through
every parent's worst nightmare.
The uncertainty that desperate searchingand the fear of what might have happened.
Eventually, the truthcame in the cruelest form.
Jaylene's body was foundnear Sinclair, Wyoming.
She had been murdered, her lifetaken before it ever truly began.
(01:41):
Jaylene was not just a victim,she was a beloved daughter.
A young girl whose whole life laid beforeher, a future that might have been filled
with school, dances, graduations, careers,friendships, and a family of her own.
All of that possibility andall of that promise was stolen
(02:01):
in an instant of violence.
And yet what remains is her memory carriedin the hearts of those who loved her, and
in the voices of those who refuse to lether story fade away, even though it has
been decades since that summer evening,the image of Jaylene remains vivid.
A 10-year-old girl who deserves somuch more remembering her is not
(02:25):
just about revisiting tragedy, itis about restoring her humanity.
It is about reminding theworld that she was more.
Than what was done to her.
She was joy.
She was loved, and she was achild whose life still matters.
On this anniversary of herdeath, we honor her by speaking
(02:46):
her name, Jaylene Don Banker.
We honor her by remembering thelight that she carried, the childhood
stolen from her and the grief herfamily has endured ever since.
And we honor her by refusing to allowher story to be reduced to silence.
Today.
We remember Jaylene, we hold space notonly for the pain of her loss, but.
(03:11):
Also for the beauty of who she was.
A little girl with a heart full oflove whose story will always matter.
Though she was taken way too soon,she will never ever be forgotten.
So let's pause here.
Holding Jaylene's memory close,not as just another name in the
(03:33):
history of violence, but as a littlegirl who mattered, who was loved,
and who will always be remembered.
And with her story in our hearts, we nowstep forward into the work of remembrance
and investigation, carrying her legacywith us as we see truth and understanding.
(04:48):
Highways stretch like arteries acrossAmerica, vast open roads where silence
hums beneath rubber and asphalt.
We travel them to get away, to getcloser or to start over, but sometimes.
People vanish on themand no one sees a thing.
This is the story of one such road,one car, one girl, and a journey
(05:13):
that never reached its destination.
March 25th, 1988.
Lisa Marie Kimmel, just 18 years old, getsbehind the wheel of her black Honda, CRX.
She's on a familiar stretch of roadfrom Denver, Colorado where she lives
and works up toward Cody, Wyoming,where her, where her boyfriend waits.
(05:36):
She never arrives.
There are no dramatic tire marks,no broken taillights left behind,
just absence a growing one.
By the time concerns bloom intodread, Lisa has already been missing
for hours, and then days and weeks.
This was no joy, right, gone wrong.
No teenage rebellion.
(05:58):
Lisa Marie Kimmel was a bright,reliable young woman working at Arby's,
following in her mother's footsteps.
A daughter who always came homewith her mom, a friend who didn't
just disappear without a trace.
The case would become one of the mosthaunting disappearances of the late
1980s, A case that sprawled acrossstate lines that exposed the failures of
(06:22):
interstate communication and for nearly15 years remains sealed in silence.
In this episode, we're goingback to where it all began.
We'll take you into Lisa's lifein Colorado, her routines, her
hopes, her reasons for the trip.
We'll map her journey northward,town by town, curve by curve,
and we'll reconstruct the finalhours before she vanished.
(06:44):
We'll also examine the first phaseof the investigation, how her family
fought to make authorities care, howone missing young woman was quietly
deprioritized, and how criticalearly clues were lost to time.
We begin not with a body, but with a road.
A young woman driving through the wideopen west, and the question that would
(07:06):
echo for decades, where did Lisa MarieKimmel go and who made her disappear?
This is episode one of ourmulti-part investigation.
So Angela, how's it going?
Angela (07:20):
Doing well, how are you?
I'm doing all right.
John (07:23):
I'm doing all
Angela (07:23):
right.
John (07:24):
Uh,
Angela (07:24):
we're gonna end it there.
I'm doing all right.
John (07:26):
Back in the saddle again.
Um, you know, I'm still dealingwith the craziness and so
Angela (07:32):
yeah,
John (07:33):
ask the listeners to continue to be patient and thank them
for their patience, but mm-hmm.
You know, all, all in all,I'm doing really good.
You know, the situation that I'mdealing with is going better than
expected, so that's good, you know?
But when you're talking about, I've
Angela (07:49):
been
John (07:49):
worried about that 90-year-old patients, you know, it's not a
quick, not a quick thing at all.
So, but yeah, it, it's really going good.
Angela (08:00):
I'm about ready for him to get up and whip your ass though.
John (08:03):
Yeah.
Well, I'm waiting for it.
I keep encouraging to,
so, but there are some cases thatstay with you because they're
brutal or because they're strangeor because they're unsolved.
And then there's the ones thatchange you, that carve a path so
deep into your memory that they,they, they shape who you become.
(08:25):
And for me, Lisa's case was that one, Iwas 11 years old when she disappeared.
I remember the everything, I rememberthe news reports, the flyers.
Mm-hmm.
All of this stuff.
And I remember not understanding howsomeone could just vanish like that.
And then what happened toher, how that could happen.
I, I mean, I said this before, butthis was the case for sure, that just.
(08:53):
Cemented this true crimething that's inside me.
Yeah.
It it comes back to this one.
Angela (08:59):
Yeah.
And we all know thatquestion never left you.
John (09:03):
No.
That's why you're still here.
It didn't, I mean, we could, I think I.
From my perspective, Lisa's caseis why Dark Dialogue exists.
It, this is where that seed was planted.
Not just a curiosity about crime, buta calling, a a need to understand how
shit like this can happen and Yeah.
(09:26):
You know, it just to, I don't know.
It just, I'll never forget this case.
I, I don't remember a wholelot about, you know, that age.
Mm-hmm.
But this is just cemented into my memory,
Angela (09:39):
right.
Lisa wasn't a stranger on a map.
She was a daughter, a coworker, ayoung woman who should have made
it to Cody and her case it matters.
John (09:50):
This is Dark Dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning, the series wherewe returned to the crimes rooted deep
in the dirt and the snow of the AmericanWest, the ones that never left the hearts
of the people who lived through them.
Angela (10:04):
We investigate the stories buried under snowfall, prairie dust,
and decades of unanswered questions.
The ones whispered through cattlefences, past broken barbed wire,
and across wind lashed highways.
John (10:16):
This appearance isn't always about getting lost sometimes someone's waiting.
Angela (10:22):
I'm Angela
John (10:23):
and I'm John.
Angela (10:25):
And in this episode, we look at the final day.
Lisa was seen her life in Colorado,the road she knew well, and the
moment her absence became unbearable.
For those who who loved her
John (10:35):
we're not pointing fingers at law enforcement.
They worked with what they had,but time, distance, and silence.
Those things protect predators andwe're here to break that silence.
Angela (10:47):
This is episode one, vanished on the Road to Cody,
John (10:51):
and this is Dark Dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning.
The Yellowstone Rivermoves slow in the spring.
Not lazy, just measured like it'sbeen here a long time and has nothing
left to prove just outside billings.
The cottonwoods lean into the waterand the land flattens into the sky.
(11:12):
This is where Lisa Marie Kimmel grew up,and if you ask the people who knew her
back then, they'll tell you that she cameinto the world with her eyes wide open.
There was always somethingcertain about Lisa, even as a kid.
She had that spark, that combinationof kindness and direction you
(11:32):
don't often find in someonestill learning how to drive.
She didn't just grow up in Montana.
She carried it with her.
Big sky, big heart, big plans.
This is where Lisa's story beginsbefore the car, before the headlines.
Before the silence.
So, Lisa Marie Kimmo wasborn July 18th, 1969.
(11:58):
Um, and she was actually born inCovington, in Tipton County, Tennessee.
Um, to her parents, Ronald, her dad,Ronald, who was stationed in the, he
was a US Marine Corps, he was in the USMarine Corps and was stationed there.
Angela (12:13):
Rah
John (12:14):
and Rah.
Yep.
And then her mother was Sheila Kimmel.
And so they were, like I said,they were stationed in Covington,
Tennessee, but they moved toBillings shortly after her birth.
And she was the oldest of three daughtersand had a younger brother named Ricky
Lee Kimmel, who tragically he diedat age three in a tragic accident.
(12:39):
So, yeah.
So this poor, these parentsburied two children.
Angela (12:44):
Dang.
I didn't.
John (12:46):
Yeah.
And then, um, her, her grandmaon her dad's side is the one
that named her Lisa Marie.
And then,
Angela (12:57):
is it because of Presley?
John (12:59):
It probably was, I don't really know that, but it probably was.
But this, this grandmother is also theone that nicknamed her little Miss.
Aw.
So
Angela (13:11):
grandma.
John (13:12):
Yeah.
'cause her grandma would sayMy little Miss Lisa Marie.
So, you know,
Angela (13:18):
tell you that my heartstrings John.
John (13:20):
Yeah.
That's a tough one.
It is.
But that'll be, that'll comeup throughout this case.
I mean, we'll talk aboutit on every single episode.
And if you research thiscase, you actually have better
luck searching Lil Miss.
Yeah.
Than you do.
Lisa Murray.
I
Angela (13:36):
discovered that.
John (13:37):
Yeah, because she is, this is known as the Lil Miss, miss Murders.
You know, as we'll talk about thatcomes because she carried that nickname
her whole life and then had it onher license plate that was a license
plate on her car, said low miss.
Angela (13:53):
She's carried it in death.
John (13:54):
Yeah.
So, you know, it's, it's pretty,I mean it's i's a very touching
sentiment to the whole storyand it really defined the case.
So, like I said, the family moved toBillings, Montana shortly after Lisa
was born and then they stayed there.
Angela (14:13):
So they're still there
John (14:14):
as far as I know.
Yes.
Um, and so they raisedtheir, their children there.
The family was close knit and like Isaid, they endured the loss of her younger
brother, which, you know, had to be.
Unbelievably tragic on for notjust her parents, but for her
siblings as well, for her and hersiblings, like the kids, the parents.
(14:37):
I mean, you know, you lose achild, especially at age three.
I mean, it's, it's just,
Angela (14:43):
yeah, I can imagine.
John (14:45):
So she grew up in Billings and which is a town that we know quite well.
So I guess I should tell thelisteners that why we typically
start with location information.
John completely dropped the balland forgot to ask Angela to do that.
So we will cover the locationinformation in episode two of Lisa's
(15:07):
case, which I don't think is gonnascrew up the flow too bad at all.
But the blame for thatdefinitely falls on me.
Angela (15:13):
Oh, come on.
John (15:14):
And so, but you know, billings is town that it seems like you haven't had
your hands full the last couple of weeks.
This is true, this is true.
I have a bit on my mind, but, youknow, billings is a town that,
um, that we're very familiar with.
We, we live pretty close to it, and it's,it's not our first foray into the area.
We had, um, Lori Bray, who wasmurdered in Laurel, Montana, but
(15:37):
who also grew up in Billings andgraduated high school in Billings.
So, you know, it's kind ofalmost revisiting the area again.
And in Billings is an area thatwe will probably be back to again.
I know that in season two of RockyMountain Reckoning, we will be in Billings
(15:58):
a bit because there are a lot of casesthat I'm looking into for season two
Angela (16:04):
that
John (16:04):
are
Angela (16:04):
shadowing that we will physically be there.
John (16:07):
Most likely.
Yeah.
Most likely.
Most likely.
Season two is gonna have some onsite
Angela (16:12):
dark dialogue.
Field trip.
John (16:14):
Yep.
Yep.
But, um, Lisa was knowing, knowingis being sweet, fun, outgoing,
hardworking, dedicated, and as ahobby, she collected teddy bears.
Which I thought was kind of cool.
Um, and she was viewed as somebodythat had a lot of promise.
(16:34):
She attended and graduatedfrom billing senior high
school, made her class of 1987.
Um, which is another reason I thinkthat this case hit me so hard is because
I had a sister who was class of 88.
Mm-hmm.
And I, I just remember as a kid thinkinglike, that's my big sister's age.
(16:54):
Like
Angela (16:55):
Yeah.
John (16:55):
How can that happen to somebody?
Exactly.
My big sister's age,it's, it blew me away.
And, you know, her pictures of her just,I mean, my oldest sister who graduated
in 80 was, but the, the two pictures,like you put 'em side by side and you,
you can mistake one for the other.
You know what I mean?
(17:16):
Mm-hmm.
They had that eightieshairdo and stuff like that.
Mm-hmm.
And it just.
You know, you see so many ofthose senior pictures of, of
girls in the eighties and the
Angela (17:25):
all aquinette,
John (17:26):
they look so similar, you know, and this was more of the, like the
earlier eighties style, not likethe big tons of hairspray, but more
late seventies, early kinda hairs.
Fair
Angela (17:38):
faucet type thing.
John (17:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, you, if you look up LisaMarie Kimmel, um, that picture,
which is her graduation picture, is apretty popular one that's out there.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, but she lived in, in Billingswith her family up until she graduated
and then they, they had a, a bitof a odd situation and we're gonna
(18:01):
get into that as far as with, withwhere mom worked and everything.
Um, so, so we'll discuss that inthe next section because it becomes
very, very important to the story.
Okay.
Because where mom worked ends upbeing where Lisa's gonna work and so.
But you know, I couldn'tfind it and I didn't.
(18:22):
I didn't really, really dig into a lotof background on Lisa, and one of the
big reasons for that is because hercase has been covered so extensively
that first of all, it's out there.
Mm-hmm.
It's not hard to find out all theinformation about her, but number two,
because there's so much informationon this case out there, um, I mean,
(18:45):
we're already gonna be doing multipleepisodes on Lisa's story, and so I just
didn't spend a lot of time on the wholebackground of, you know, her childhood
growing up and all of that kind stuff, so,
Angela (18:59):
right.
Okay.
John (19:00):
The Arby's off Havana Street wasn't glamorous, but it was steady,
predictable, clean uniforms, plasticname tags, fryers that hissed every few
minutes, like they had something to say.
It's where Lisa clocked in fivedays a week, showed up early,
stayed late, got the orders right.
(19:21):
Smiled like the day wasn't wearingher down because that's who Lisa was.
Even when the work was thankless,she cared and just a few miles
away, her mother was workingtoo, pulling long hours, juggling
bills, trying to build a future.
They came to Colorado togetherand they live close to each
(19:42):
other, but not in the same place.
Lisa was building a life paycheckby paycheck, plan by plan.
It wasn't flashy, but it wasworking, and for a while,
just long enough to feel safe.
Lisa believed everythingwas going according to plan.
(20:06):
Lisa's mom worked for a Arby'scorporation and she held a role of in it.
She was a senior management, hada senior management position,
and at some point that position.
Was gonna be based in Denver, Colorado.
I couldn't confirm whether itwas always that way or if it
(20:27):
was a relatively new thing.
Okay.
But she, she had worked atArby's for quite a while.
She kinda worked up the ranks.
She was a regional manager thenshe was a district supervisor.
Then she moved into more seniormanagement, and so she oversaw multiple
Arby's locations and which requiredher to travel to the Denver area.
(20:50):
All the freaking time.
And so she worked in business managementfor 23 years and then, and, and during
that time at, at Arby's, and then finallyshe retired and the position required.
Literally commuting from Billings,Montana to Denver, Colorado.
Which, which
Angela (21:10):
for scale is what, like 11 hours or so?
John (21:13):
Yeah, so it would probably be, um, about nine hours, I would say.
Angela (21:17):
Oh, for those of us who stop occasionally and drive the speed limit,
John (21:21):
well, I know what you're think.
I know what you're thinking.
And that is because of.
Angela (21:26):
It's eight from here and two from there.
Yeah.
John (21:28):
Right.
But if you're driving from Denver toBillings, typically now leases gonna
follow the road that you are thinkingof, but for a different reason.
But if, if you're driving from Denver toBillings, you're typically gonna stay on
the interstate all the way to Sheridan.
Yeah.
And then go over to Billings that way.
And so it would be a little bit faster'cause it's interstate the whole way.
(21:48):
Mm-hmm.
So it's gonna save you a couplehours probably, but yeah,
it's, it's a hell of a drive.
I mean, it is literally all theway across the state of Wyoming.
Yeah.
Almost diagonally.
So like the longest way across thestate of Wyoming is, which isn't
Angela (22:03):
Texas by any means.
Mm-hmm.
But still long,
John (22:06):
we're one of the larger states in the nation.
So it's, I mean, it's a hellof a long ways across there.
I don't know the exactmileage, but it's a long ways.
Angela (22:14):
Do you want me to look up the mileage?
John (22:16):
Again, if you want to.
But anyway, you know it.
She literally commuted from Denveror from Billings to Denver, which is
one hell of a commute that might topout the commutes that I've heard of.
But when we talk about commuting, shewasn't doing it every day, obviously.
Well,
Angela (22:35):
man,
John (22:36):
and then after the whole tragedy, she wrote a hook that's entitled The
Murder of Little Miss, a Mother'sBrutal 16 Year Fight for Justice.
And that's all obviouslyabout Lisa's case.
Yeah.
And then Lisa began working at Arby'spart-time in Billings when she was 14.
(22:58):
And so I, I would imagine that, you know.
That was, she was a shoe in for the job.
Her mom managed it.
But from everything that Ihave learned about Lisa, she
didn't take it for granted.
And she wasn't like the spoiledkid that she worked her butt off.
And, and so that allowed herto then kind of move up through
(23:20):
the ranks with, in, in this job.
And so obviously Lisa, was it herLisa's decision to work at Obvi at
Arby's was almost certainly influencedby her mom's role with Arby's.
And not because it gave herbenefits that other people wouldn't
(23:41):
have, but I think more because.
Arby's treated her mom well and,and allowed her mom to work up
through the ranks and like Isaid, into senior management.
And so I think that waskind of the plan for Lisa.
She wanted to do the same thing, kindof follow in her mom's footsteps.
Did you find the mileage?
Angela (23:58):
Yes.
The way that you werediscussing is 555 miles.
John (24:04):
Okay.
Angela (24:04):
Seven hours, 30 minutes it claims.
Gotcha.
Our ours is much longer.
John (24:09):
Much longer, yeah.
But yeah, I mean it was, it'sstill a hell of a long ways to go.
So, but you know her working at, atArby's from the time that she was 14, but
you know, she probably graduated at 18.
I didn't confirm that.
But you know, I mean, she hadfour years experience at, at that
point, and so that kind of preparedher for future management roles.
(24:31):
So, you know, during the, duringour childhood, she balanced work as.
Work with her studies atbilling senior high school.
Mm-hmm.
And then, like I said, a few minutesago, she graduated in 1987 and when
she graduated, she made the decisionto really not to go to college.
She made the decision to pursuea career similar to her mom's.
(24:54):
Mm-hmm.
And was at least goingto put college on pause.
Angela (24:58):
Right.
You
John (24:58):
know, if the Arby's thing didn't work out, then maybe
she would've changed her mind.
But, you know, I mean, I can completelyunderstand that because everybody thinks
like, oh, working in fast food, you know,but, but her mom probably was making very
good money, senior management at Arby'sand probably had really great benefits
and it was probably a freaking great job,
Angela (25:21):
you know?
And can we normalize that being okay?
Because a job is a job?
Well, a job is you're paying your bills.
John (25:27):
A job is a job.
And I mean, I also, not toget off on too much here, but.
The fact that college somehowsets you up better is not true.
Sets you up for
Angela (25:38):
debt, is what it does.
John (25:39):
I mean, if you're gonna be a brain surgeon, then yeah,
Angela (25:42):
yeah.
John (25:43):
But when I
Angela (25:44):
please go to college,
John (25:45):
when I was teaching, um, I was teaching at the, I was teaching electrical
and every year was the same story.
At least half of my class werecollege graduates that were getting
into the electrical field becausethey couldn't make enough with their
degree to pay off their student loans.
So they had to go become electricians sothat they could pay off the loans they had
(26:08):
to take out to become underwater basketweavers or whatever, whatever nonsense.
They went to college for.
And it is nonsense because youpulled that out very quickly.
If you cannot make enough money topay for the education you got mm-hmm.
It is a worthless freak and you can't
Angela (26:29):
use the education.
Yeah.
John (26:31):
Yeah.
It's worthless.
And so I actually encouraged my kidsnot to go to college unless in grade
school they, well, I didn't reallysay that, but unless they had a
definite goal that required college,like I said, if you are gonna, if
you're gonna go be a brain surgeon,a heart surgeon, a doctor, whatever,
(26:51):
I want you to go to college first.
Kinda need to know afew things about that.
But there's so many things that peopledo that don't require a college degree.
And you know, like Lisa's mom, I imagineshe was making very good money and Lisa
would've I'm sure moved up through theranks into management and then seen
(27:13):
her management roles with Arby's andprobably would've made excellent money.
Yeah.
And so, yeah, so I think that it's, Ithink it's wonderful and I think it's
freaking smart for kids not to start offlife with two or $300,000 in debt Doubt.
But so she obviously, she saw that thisrole as a way to jumpstart her career
(27:35):
into management and, you know, so she,she used, um, she utilized some of
her money and savings and stuff thatshe had to support her move to Aurora.
And then I think it probablymade it a little bit easier on.
Lisa and on her family thather mom was down there as well.
(27:59):
Mm-hmm.
You know, so she was starting off onher own, but not entirely on her own.
She didn't, um, it's not like shemoved all the way to Aurora, Colorado
to work the friars at Arby's.
She actually was, was beginningthat process of moving up and she
was offered a position as a unitmanager at an Arby's in Aurora.
(28:23):
That's why she took it, because thiswas gonna be her first real break
into that management, you know, and,and that was setting her up for,
for, you know, the senior management,everything we just talked about.
So our responsibilities would'vebeen to manage the daily operations
of the fast food location.
And this is, I mean, this is really theway that almost all franchise operations
(28:47):
kinda start out with, you start outmanaging one store and then maybe.
You manage two stores and then mm-hmm.
You manage three and thenmaybe you do a region.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
It just kind of keeps growing from there.
And so her work schedule was full-timeby now and it included the sh shifts
(29:08):
ending in the afternoons or evenings.
I couldn't find exactly, but youknow, typically the, typically the
manager isn't at the location atmidnight, you know what I mean?
Yeah.
She's probably working more of the dayshift time period and probably Monday
through Friday, and then she would'vehad assistant managers that would've
assisted with the other hours of the open.
Angela (29:31):
But a manager's job is never done and your phone rings constantly.
John (29:34):
Oh, you're freaking telling me constantly.
And one of the main reasons that I gaveup my general manager position was.
When I was sitting at my parents'table on Easter Sunday doing payroll,
Angela (29:47):
and
John (29:48):
I was like, this is insane.
If I'm gonna do this shit, I'mgonna do it for my own business.
Yeah.
Not for somebody else's, but she tookthat role right after she graduated in
1987, and then she worked it up untilthe time that she disappeared in 88.
And she was described consistentlyfrom all the way from the time she
started at 14, all the way throughoutas being hardworking and very dedicated.
(30:13):
And it really fed heroutgoing and fun personality.
And so her mom and her decidedthat, um, I imagine that her mom.
Already had an apartment in, in this,in this complex, in the Denver area.
And then when Lisa made the movedown there, she rented another
apartment in the same complex.
(30:35):
Okay, so she did not live with her mom.
She had her own place.
She was starting her own life.
She was doing what so many freshgraduated 18 year olds were doing.
But.
You know, like a lot of kids are gonnamove across town from mom and dad.
This gave her the opportunity tohave mom close to the support.
(30:56):
Yeah.
But still, you know, start herlife, be an adult, do her own thing.
Have her own place.
It's very cool.
It's really a neat thing.
Yeah.
Thing.
Yeah.
And so they live close to eachother, but, and I don't know exactly,
um, how large the complex was, butyou know, a lot of those apartment
complexes in cities as large asDenver are big cities on themselves.
(31:19):
Yeah.
You could live pretty privately inthe same complex, you know, where,
'cause you might be clear, I mean,you could be 70 blocks away from each
other, you know, and so it's not likethey were living across the hall, but
I thought it was a really neat Yeah.
Setup because it allowed them to,it allowed mom to kinda keep an eye
(31:41):
on, on daughter and, you know, beavailable when she's like, mm-hmm.
You know, baking her first cake orwhatever, and it's like, yeah, uh,
this thing just exploded in my oven.
What do I do?
You know?
So
Angela (31:54):
Sounds like that's happened to you at time.
John (31:56):
Oh yeah.
Well, I mean, when I was, when I firstmoved out, I attempted to put, I ran,
I didn't, I was broke like every youngkid out on their own for the first time
and I didn't have dishwasher detergent.
And so since clothing detergent looked thesame, I figured it would operate the same.
(32:16):
And I started my dishwasherand I am not shitting you.
Half of my kitchen was bubbles.
Yeah.
Like, it, it was probably three feethigh all the way across the kitchen.
Angela (32:28):
Yeah.
John (32:29):
It's amazing how many bubbles come from laundry de desserts.
Oh, yeah.
In a dishwasher.
And you, and you cannotreplace one with the other.
It doesn't matter how they look.
Angela (32:38):
Yeah.
Public service announcement.
John (32:41):
But yeah, I mean, we all do dumb shit like that.
And that's, you learn the lessons.
That's how we learn notto do dumb shit like that.
But yeah.
It's what, our twenties or four.
But, so the kind of, the way that the,that things operated was both mom and
daughter were, would live the week in theDenver area and then they would commute
(33:03):
back up to Billings on the weekends.
They would usually leave theDenver area on Friday evening.
Angela (33:10):
Dang.
John (33:10):
And then they would be back to work by Monday morning.
So it's tough.
I, there is no way in hell I would do it.
I
Angela (33:18):
don't see
John (33:19):
any rest in there at all.
None.
I mean, you know, when I was livingin Denver or in the Denver area.
There's no way I would come homeunless I had at least four days.
Yeah.
Because two days are taken up driving.
Yeah.
You know, because it's a solid eighthours and, and so it's not even worth
(33:41):
it for to come up for a weekend.
No, for that was my opinion anyway.
But they did, for them it worked.
And so that left Dad Ron, um, athome with the younger siblings,
sisters, Sherry and Stacy, who werestill going to school in Billings.
And so I imagine that it was asituation that was bred from not wanting
(34:05):
the kids to have to move schools.
Angela (34:07):
Yeah.
John (34:07):
You know, and so mom was probably offered this position and so
the family probably talked about it.
I don't know this for sure, but I canalmost guarantee that the conversation
was like, well we can do almostanything for a couple years Yeah.
Or whatever.
'cause I've had those and thenwhatever the future looked like, I
would imagine that probably dad wasgonna move to the Denver area once
(34:31):
all the, all the kids were graduated.
You know?
So it was probably a greatopportunity for her to move into
a senior management position.
Probably make a lot more moneyand like so many of us do.
You look at a situation and you're like,well, I couldn't do it for the rest of
my life, but I can do it for a year.
I could do it for six months.
Yeah.
Or whatever the time may do.
Angela (34:51):
We know what dad did?
John (34:53):
Dad was retired from the Marine Corps.
Angela (34:55):
Oh, oh yeah.
John (34:56):
Yeah.
Angela (34:56):
Rah.
John (34:56):
Okay.
Yeah.
So, um, and I think it was, it had to havebeen a really kind of a cool experience
for both mom and Lisa too, because.
It allowed them to, it's big bonding, likebond as mom and daughter, you know, and,
and from everything I understand they hada great relationship anyway, but it is a
special, unique thing when you have thatone on, one-on-one time with your parent.
(35:21):
You know, when you're not anonly child and you get a be
off with mom or off with dad.
Mm-hmm.
Just the two of you, you know, it's, yeah.
And I, with so many, with, I thinkwith most kids, the dynamic changes
once you graduate high school.
And it should, where, and thishappened with my kids too, is
once you get outta high school,once you're out on your own, then.
(35:43):
You don't have the same parentchild relationship, you start
building more of the the
Angela (35:48):
friend
John (35:48):
friendship.
Yeah.
You know, and yes, you're always theparent and yes, you're always there
to give advice, but now's the timewhere we can be friends 'cause you're
gonna make your own damn decisionswhether I agree with them or not.
So, and
Angela (36:00):
I'm not responsible.
John (36:01):
I'm not responsible, so let's just be friends.
Yeah.
So I imagine there was a lot of that,um, you know, going on between there.
And so, you know, like you said,it was a hell of a freaking
drive eight hours one way.
Yeah.
And they were typ typically leavingafter work on Friday, driving all the
(36:21):
way up there and then, yeah, I mean,you would have to leave of course.
I guess they didn'tmind driving late, but.
You know, if it was me, there's no wayI'd be leaving later than noon on Sunday.
Angela (36:34):
Yeah.
John (36:34):
You know, but maybe they were two or three in the afternoon when
they took off, but they almost alwaysjust drove together and, you know,
anytime you're researching this, you,you don't get all the little things.
I'm sure there were times that Lisa waslike, I'm not going home this weekend.
I'm gonna stay here and,you know, other times I
Angela (36:53):
need to sleep.
John (36:54):
Yeah, yeah.
But as a general rule, they would drivetogether and spend the time, you know,
chatting in the car and stuff like that,and then go spend the weekend at home with
the family and so and so, it was a unique.
Arrangement for sure.
But I think it was a really kindof a cool and a special one.
(37:14):
Mm-hmm.
You know?
So, I don't know.
It started like a thousand weekendsbefore a planned a conversation, a quiet
compromise between mother and a daughter.
Lisa's mom had a flight to catch.
Normally they'd be making thedrive to Billings together, but
(37:37):
this time Lisa was going home.
She was old enough responsible.
She had the car routine memorized,and she had a boyfriend waiting at
the other end, seven hours, giveor take, just her in the open room.
And that day the plan kicked into motion.
Lisa said goodbye at work, toldpeople where she was going, packed
(37:58):
up the car, locked the door.
She wasn't running away,she wasn't chasing anything.
She was simply going tovisit someone she loved.
It was supposed to be a normalweekend, but we all know what's coming.
And so did the road.
So Lisa had a boyfriend and itwas a relatively new relationship
(38:20):
with a, with a guy by the nameof Ed Roche, who lived in Cody.
And Ed worked for MarathonOil Company, which being from
Cody, I can tell you, it's not
Angela (38:31):
to say that name sounds very familiar to me.
John (38:34):
Uh, yeah.
And I'm not gonna, I'm notgonna throw any first names
out, but I People under the bus.
Yeah.
I don't know for sure if he wasrelated to the, to the rocess that
we're thinking of or not, but.
I've, I've wondered about that.
It's
Angela (38:52):
a pretty tricky last name, not to be related.
John (38:54):
Yeah.
But anyway, he worked for Marathon andfor those of us that grew up in Cody
Marathon, employed probably three quartersof this freaking town at one time.
I don't know if you remember as a kid, but
Angela (39:06):
my grandfather was,
John (39:07):
there was a time, well all Marathon issued red trucks back then.
Mm-hmm.
And there was a time where it was likeevery other house in town had a red
marathon truck parked in front of it.
The huge office building that wasbuilt here housed all of their offices.
I mean, this was a majormarathon hub at one point.
Angela (39:25):
I still have one of his hard hats.
John (39:27):
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, I worked for Marathonas, as a private contractor.
I worked as a, as an electrician,privately contracted, but
in marathons, oil fields.
So, I mean, at one timethey were huge here.
Angela (39:41):
Mm-hmm.
And
John (39:41):
now they're not even here at all, which is crazy.
The.
The big office buildingis now our librarian.
Angela (39:48):
It's still called the Marathon building in Will forever.
It
John (39:51):
will always be the marathon building.
Yep.
So, but Ed and Lisa met, um, they hadbeen introduced by mutual friends, um,
and apparently this friend was named Carlaand so they both were friends with Carla.
So Carla kind of got 'em togetherand, you know, they were doing the
whole boyfriend girlfriend thing.
(40:12):
Like I said, it was arelatively new relationship.
Lisa viewed it as serious enough that.
She was going to introduce Ed to herparents for the first time that weekend.
So the whole idea was, it was Easterweekend, so Easter was gonna be, and
so it was, March 25th was a Friday,so Easter was gonna be the 27th.
(40:34):
And her, the plan was she was gonnatake that longer route from Denver to
Billings, like you had mentioned earlier.
And she was gonna leave DenverDrive to Cody, grab Ed and I'm sure,
you know, stay and sleep in Cody.
And then they were gonna get upand drive on up and spend Easter
weekend with her family in Billings.
(40:57):
And this would've been the first timethat Ed was gonna meet her family.
So.
You know, that's a big weekend inan early relationship like that,
you know, when going over a holiday.
Yeah.
Gone to the point where it'stime to meet mom and dad.
That's, that's a pretty big deal.
And you know, like I saidearlier, her mom, Sheila,
typically, they drove together.
(41:19):
And so, but this particular weekend, um,she had, Sheila had a scheduled ski trip,
which meant that she needed to be homeearlier than she could if she was driving.
And I didn't, I didn't lookfor all the specifics of it and
everything, but she did leaveDenver on Thursday, March the 24th.
(41:42):
And, and she decided to fly thistime instead of drive because
she needed to get home quicker.
And then I'm sure that Lisa waslike, well that's fine because
I need to go pick up Ed anyway.
So, you know, it makes perfect sense.
And so mom took off on Thursday andthen Lisa was gonna work and then
drive up on Friday evening aftershe got off work, which would've
(42:05):
been about four 30 her normal.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, the quickoverview of the entire timeline
is we've already talked about mom.
She's gone, she got on a flight thenight before she took off, and then um,
Lisa got off work in Aurora a littleafter 4:30 PM on Friday the 25th.
(42:27):
And she took off.
And then, um, so that would'vetaken her from Denver.
She would've taken I 25 north up intoWyoming from Cheyenne up into Casper.
Then in Casper, she would have taken thebig left turn, got off the interstate
onto the godforsaken stretch of highway.
(42:50):
That's the longest in the worldbetween Casper and Shoshone.
Angela (42:54):
Four hours of nothing.
John (42:56):
Of nothing, which coincidentally goes right past Manita.
So if you've been listening to any RockyMountain Rec, Rocky Mountain Reckoning
episodes, you know about Manita.
And so that would've taken herfrom, and it's kind of funny because
we've covered most all of these.
Areas already on Rocky MountainAir, on Rocky Mountain Reckoning.
(43:18):
So, mm-hmm.
I didn't plan this season to belike the geography of Wyoming
Angela (43:23):
season,
John (43:24):
but
Angela (43:25):
hell, why not?
John (43:26):
It kinda turned out that way.
But, so then she would've gone fromCasper to Shoshone and Shoshone, she
would've turned to Thermopolis, and thenThermopolis turned to go up into Cody.
So that's kind of the routethat that was planned and it,
Angela (43:40):
it would've
John (43:40):
taken
Angela (43:41):
her plus, oh man, you missed Mai.
Like, it doesn't matter.
John (43:45):
Well, I missed a lot.
I missed Highland too.
So what?
Let me tell you, every doubt,
Angela (43:51):
yes.
Dad blast it
John (43:53):
so that that would've taken her roughly eight hours or so and
she kinda had a little bit of a leadfoot, which will come up in the story.
So she probably maybe could havemade it a little faster than that.
But, um, and, you know, nighttimedriving and she's by herself
and, you know, I, I don't know,
Angela (44:14):
jamming to music
John (44:15):
you faster.
I don't know Lisa, Lisa personally,but when I was, I mean, I'm still this
way, but you know, when you're thatage, a lot of the times you don't stop.
You don't have to get out and go to thebathroom every five miles or whatever.
You just drive until you get there.
So you don't really stop unless yougotta have good gas, you stop, get gas.
If you've gotta pee, you pee back inthe car, back on the road, you're out of
(44:36):
there, you know, so she, you know, shecould've made it a little bit faster than
eight hours, but right around that area.
Then she was gonna pick up Ed,spend the night at his home in Cody,
and then continue on to Billingsthe next day for the big for,
you know, Easter with the family.
Time didn't stop.
(44:57):
When Lisa went missing,it just got louder.
The hours ticked by firstwith quiet assumptions.
Maybe she stopped for gas,maybe she hit traffic.
But as time went on, thosemaybes turned to worry.
Lisa was supposed to call.
She always did.
Her mother waited by the phone,checked the clock, tried not to
(45:20):
panic, but by the next morning,panic had settled in like a second.
Skin calls went out.
Police were contacted.
Once they found out that theboyfriend hadn't seen her, no one had.
And then came the detail,the last confirmed sighting.
A black Honda pulledover in Douglas, Wyoming.
A girl matching Lisa's description.
(45:41):
At a first interstate bank drive upATM, quiet, controlled, and then gone.
Reports were filed, officers took itseriously, but out there in the fastness
of Wyoming serious isn't always fast.
This was the moment that it all began tochange when Lisa Marie Kimmel went from a
(46:02):
girl en route to a girl no one could find.
So we know that she left, um, a leftAurora, Colorado sometime shortly
after four 30 and headed north.
Um, and then around around nine to 90 6, she was pulled over for speeding
(46:25):
on I 25 somewhere near Douglas and.
She had that interaction with theWyoming Highway Patrol and his,
his name was, um, officer Al Lesko.
And I've heard of this happening inother states, and I didn't realize
that Wyoming did it, but I'm notsurprised that they did either.
And that is that if you get pulledover for a speeding ticket and you
(46:49):
have outta out-of-state plates and anOUTTA state license, they make you pay
for the ticket before you can leave.
And that's pretty commonplace.
And that was the story thatnight when Lisa got pulled over.
She got her ticket and he islike, and you have to pay this.
And so she was like, I ain't got no money.
Um, and so it doesn't mean
Angela (47:07):
to an idea, follow me to an a
John (47:08):
tm, follow me to an ATM.
Yep.
And that's exactly what happened.
He followed her to the ATM inDouglas and then, but for whatever
reason, she couldn't draw the cash.
I don't know, I don't knowwhat the situation was, why
the ATM wouldn't take her card.
Um, this was 1988.
Angela (47:28):
Mm.
John (47:29):
And I, I still run into this from time to time, but back then I
remember there was a ton of ATMs thatwould only take this card or Oh yeah.
These cards.
Mm-hmm.
You couldn't use your, at m at justany, you were ATM or you couldn't
use your ATM card at just any ATM.
And so it, it very well might've beenthat situation, but whatever it was,
(47:52):
she couldn't pull the money and so thecop was like, alright, well I'm just
gonna let you go ahead and go and hemailed the money in, you know, and I
think that, I think that officers didthen and probably still do have that
discretion to be like, alright, wellI've probably tortured this poor, we
Angela (48:10):
tried, yeah.
John (48:11):
You know, I probably tortured this poor girl long enough.
She seems like a respectable young lady.
I'm not gonna worry too much about it.
And certainly not taking herto jail, you know, so, which.
Angela (48:22):
Maybe it saved her life.
If he had
John (48:24):
probably, yeah, it probably would've.
But he had no way of knowing that.
Angela (48:28):
I mean, that's true.
I wasn't blaming
John (48:30):
Oh, I know you weren't.
I know you weren't, butyou're absolutely right.
I mean, it's too bad he didn't puther in jail because she'd be alive.
Yeah, no doubt about that.
And so shortly, th shortly afterthat, so shortly after nine o'clock,
she bids farewell to the, to officerl Lesco and continues her way north.
(48:51):
Um, and that was it.
She disappeared sometime after that.
But we don't know when.
We still don't know when,but we do know that.
Ed was worried when she failed to arrive.
And you know, we've all been in thesituation that this poor guy was in,
(49:11):
where you're sitting there waitingon somebody that's traveling and the
hours are ticking by, and you alwayskind of have it in your mind, you know,
okay, well I know it's this many hours,so I should expect her at this time.
That time comes and goes.
And then you're like, well, maybe,you know, maybe she got pulled over.
You know, maybe it tooka little bit of time.
So then you wait another hour and then,I mean, every hour you get a little bit
(49:35):
more worried, a little more rany, andyou, pretty soon you run out of excuses to
tell yourself, you know, it's like, well,maybe there was, you know, a bad storm.
Well maybe there.
And then pretty soon you're like,okay, there's nothing that would've
taken this long without a phone call.
Yeah.
You know, her car broke down.
Okay, fine.
But she should have called by now.
(49:55):
So he ends up calling the familyin Billings and being like, uh.
Lisa's still not here.
And he was freaking the hell out.
That had to be a very tough call to makebecause remember, he'd never met them.
Never met them.
Yeah.
So, but he did, I mean,he was a standup guy.
He called mom and dad and was like,I'm really freaking worried about her.
(50:16):
And then, so that would've been earlySaturday morning, March the 26th.
And so she was officially reportedmissing that same day mom and dad, they
got on it and they reported her missing.
And then from March 26th toMarch 31st, she was just gone.
Um, no contact, no sightings.
(50:37):
And so obviously theirfreaking the hell out.
Every day that goes on, getsworse and worse and worse.
They continue to search, no results.
And then on April 2nd, 1988,a body is discovered in the
North Platte River near Casper.
But, and it was, it was a shorttime after that that that body was
(51:01):
confirmed to be Lisa Marie Kimmel.
And so from, so from March 26th to April2nd, there's this missing chunk of time
where we don't know what, what's going on.
She disappeared.
Her body wasn't found until April 2nd.
And when the body was found, it wasvery obvious that she had not been in
(51:23):
that location, that length of time.
So she was found just off thegovernment bridge in Casper.
If you know where the governmentbridge is in Casper, it is not like
a secluded way out of the way spot.
There's virtually no way a body couldbe laying near it for any length
of time without being discovered.
(51:44):
Because it's kind of in town.
So, and then obviously the autopsyresults and everything confirmed
that, that she had not been deadvery long when her body was found.
And so, you know, the investigationstarted and they confirmed that the
last known citing was in Douglaswhen she had that interaction
with, um, trooper Al Lesko.
(52:06):
And, you know, it was a little bit longerstop than it maybe could have been because
he had her go ahead and go to the ATM andattempt to draw the cash and everything.
But there was, he reported no anomalies.
Lisa was alone.
There was no other vehiclesor persons involved.
It was a very routine encounter with,you know, the little thing with the
(52:29):
extended payment attempt and the ATMcard, not taking her card and all that.
That was a little bit of an outlier.
But other than that, it wasvery routine that, and the cop
reported that there was nothing.
Um, unusual at all about it.
She didn't seem like she was underduress or anything like that.
(52:49):
And so, you know, the descriptionthat went out when she was
missing, did you find something or,
Angela (52:56):
I was just looking at the government bridge.
John (52:57):
Oh, do, do you, do you recognize it or, mm-hmm.
Angela (53:00):
Yeah.
John (53:01):
Um, you know, Lisa was described as an 18-year-old white
female, five foot three, 110 pounds.
She had brown hair and eyes andwas driving that black 1988 Honda
C-R-X-S-I with Montana plate,little Miss L-I-L-M-I-S-S, which
just exploded during this time.
Angela (53:23):
Yeah, I bet.
John (53:24):
Um, I remember watching the news every night.
I, a little guy and they would have aMontana license plate on the little,
you know, a little picture by the
Angela (53:34):
picture.
In picture.
Yeah.
John (53:35):
Yeah.
It would pop up.
And it was a little Miss Montanalittle miss license plate.
It is just burned into my memory.
I'll carry with me my entire life, youknow, and the family actively reached
out to the local media, both in Montanaand in Wyoming to spread awareness.
I mean, they got busy right awaydistributing flyers, doing interviews,
(53:57):
um, on the TV stations and allthat, you know, so Billings had.
Two or three at that time,I can't remember for sure.
I think they had three.
They had A, B, C, C, B, S,and NBC out of Billings.
Casper had a TV station back then as well.
I know that they were onall of those stations.
I don't know, they probably wereon, you know, Cheyenne's as well.
(54:21):
I mean, they wereeverywhere they could be.
And this was a huge story.
It blew up immediately 'cause I,as an 11-year-old, knew about it.
Before the body was found,I, I learned about it almost
immediately when she went missing.
And so I remember like the whole searchand all, I remember the whole damn thing.
(54:44):
Yeah.
So it was huge.
I
Angela (54:46):
remember you telling the story that, do homework.
Watch the news.
John (54:50):
Yeah.
Yep.
It is so freaking true.
So, you know, it was, um, it was insane.
As a, as a kid, it alteredmy reality for sure.
So, but I think that that's a, agood place to close with the story.
Um, like I said, this, there's no way todo this without doing multiple episodes.
(55:15):
And so we'll dive back in on a lot ofthe spec, the specifics around finding
her body and stuff in the next episode.
But we'll close this one out hereso when someone disappears, time
becomes something else entirely.
It stretches, warts, breaks.
(55:38):
Every hour.
Lisa was missing, felt likea question without an answer.
Her car didn't turn up, her voice didn'treturn, her bank account didn't move.
And for her family, especially her mother,it was a kind of terror that wrapped
around the chest and didn't let go.
Lisa's mother called hospitals, calledlaw enforcement, called friends.
(56:01):
She stayed on the line until the silencefelt like punishment until someone
finally said what she already knew.
Lisa was missing, but missingisn't the same as lost.
Not yet.
In those early days, there was hope.
Hope that maybe Lisa had pulled off theroad, hope that maybe she was with someone
(56:23):
and just hadn't had a chance to call.
Hope that she'd walk through thedoor, that the phone call would
come, that the car would reappear.
Search efforts began local lawenforcement, retraced known routes.
Her photo was sent to agencies acrossstate lines, but this wasn't Denver.
This wasn't a city withcameras and foot traffic.
(56:45):
This was wide open American West,and the distance between clues was
measured in miles, not minutes.
There was one real lead, a Wyominghighway patrolman remembered pulling
over a black Honda, CRX near Douglas.
Another said that they thought they sawsomeone matching Lisa's description at
(57:06):
a convenience store and then nothing.
This was just the beginning of a casethat would cross jurisdictions strain
relationships and haunt not justa family, but an entire community.
It was no longer a latearrival, no longer a delay.
It was a disappearance, andsomewhere out there on those open
roads under that vast Wyoming sky.
(57:29):
Lisa Marie Kimmel was waiting to be found.
She liked rainy days, not thecold kind, not the storms, but the
kind where the clouds hang low andeverything feels steel, where the
world softens just enough to breathe.
Lisa Marie Kimmel was the kind ofperson who brought her own weather
(57:50):
with her warm when things got cold.
Clear-eyed.
When others looked away,she didn't need a spotlight.
She made people feel seenjust by standing beside them.
She was 18 years old.
She worked, held her own, managed herdays with the kind of responsibility
that made her family proud and surprised.
(58:11):
No one who knew her.
Her car was more than just transportation.
It was freedom, black, polished, distinct.
She drove it like she had somewhere worthgetting to, and that's because she did.
Lisa had dreams, big ones future, a lifethat she hadn't even begun to sketch
out fully, but that she believed in.
(58:32):
And more than anything, she believed inpeople, that they do the right thing,
that they look out for each other.
That kindness wasn't weakness.
That belief, that's what makes whathappened to her so devastating because
Lisa wasn't naive, she just didn't livelike the world was something to fear and
(58:54):
maybe, maybe she shouldn't have had to.
We tell these stories, not toreopen wounds, but to remind
the world who was taken.
Lisa wasn't a mystery, she wasa daughter, a friend, a light,
a. And she should be here.
We remember her, not just because of howshe died, but because of how she lived.
(59:17):
Lisa's story is just the beginningfor some of you, but for her
family, for the people who livedthrough it, it's never stopped.
This is what this series is about, notjust remembering what happened, but
honoring the people that it happened to.
Angela (59:38):
Next episode, we'll walk you through the discovery that broke this
case open when Lisa was finally found.
We'll also begin unpacking theevidence left behind and what it
did and didn't tell investigators.
John (59:53):
If this episode moved, you share it, post it, text it.
These stories need light and yourhelp to shine the light on it.
Angela (01:00:02):
You can also support the show directly by show joining our Patreon
at patreon.com/dark dialogue pod orvisiting coffee.com/dark dialogue your
support fuels our investigations andkeeps these cases in the public eye.
John (01:00:18):
For deeper dives, episode transcripts and bonus content, subscribe
to our newsletter at substack atdark dialogue crime.substack.com.
Angela (01:00:29):
And if you want to be part of the conversation, our discord is open.
Join us on discord sharetheories, talk about the case,
or just be with others who care.
John (01:00:40):
And I might also mention that there is now a forum feature on the
website so people can get in thereand talk on the website as well.
And there is also, um, a link onour website to our Discord channel
so you can just see if anybody's onDiscord by logging onto our website.
And as always, you can alwaysreach us at info@darkdialogue.com.
(01:01:03):
We read every message.
Angela (01:01:05):
And if you haven't already, like follow, subscribe,
wherever you're listening.
It really does help keepthese stories alive.
John (01:01:13):
This has been Dark Dialogue.
Rocky Mountain Reckoning.
I'm John.
And I'm Angela.
We'll see you next timewhen the road leads deeper.
Until then, stay safe, stay sharp, andmake the guilty face the reckoning.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
NFL Daily with Gregg Rosenthal
Gregg Rosenthal and a rotating crew of elite NFL Media co-hosts, including Patrick Claybon, Colleen Wolfe, Steve Wyche, Nick Shook and Jourdan Rodrigue of The Athletic get you caught up daily on all the NFL news and analysis you need to be smarter and funnier than your friends.