Gakidama (1985) & Biotherapy (1986) with Brantley and George

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brantley (00:10):
Yeah, that's disappointing.
And much like Psycho 3 the movie,I'd say the opening is one of
the best parts of that movie.
And the rest of it doesn't live up to it.

George (00:18):
That's, that's the, she like throws herself off the top of that.
Don't they, right?
The church.
That's right.
The nun.
Yeah, the nun, uh,

Brantley (00:24):
kills herself.
And I worked at an archive where thatactress was a part of the founding family
and her records were in the archive.
There you go.
Yeah.
Did she write

Chris (00:34):
anything about Psycho 3?

Brantley (00:36):
She probably did because we had all of her diaries going back
into like the 50s and 60s and shekept them up until 2000 and Two or
three, uh, before she passed away.
Um, and she, I was one of the peoplewho would transcribe her diaries.
So, uh, she probably didwrite about it, actually.

(00:57):
I just don't know if I got to that part.
That, uh, that actress, her name isPatience Cleveland, for anyone interested.
She played Lady Deathin, um, Donnie Darko.
So, that was one of the last rolesshe had before she passed away.

Chris (01:10):
I think that's called, uh, nominative determinism when it's
like, obviously someone named PatienceCleveland is going to grow up to play
Lady Death in a movie at some point.
If you name your kid that,what else do you expect?
Yep.

George (01:24):
I think if you, if you check the Psycho 3 entry, it's just going
to be like, today I saw Jeff Fahey'sballs bathed in a purple light.

Brantley (01:33):
Oh, that's funny.
Uh, yeah, yeah, she's a,she's, she's a character.
I'll put it that way.
You know, she did write in her, oneof her last diaries that she wants
to do more movies like Donnie Darko.
So it was a very bittersweet kind ofentry, cause obviously she passed so
soon after that she wasn't able to,

Chris (01:49):
but.
The director probably wants to domore movies like Donnie Darko too.
And

George (01:54):
also I would like them both to do more movies like Donnie Darko.
Shouts out to Donkey.
We love that movie, baby.
Hey, we, I mean me.
I can't speak for anyone else.
Oh, I'm with you.
That's a very

Brantley (02:07):
special movie to me.
That, that and Bottle Rocketwere the two movies my wife and
I watched on our first date.
I took them home from the videostore that I was working at
and that was our first date.

George (02:16):
I didn't, I didn't watch it for like a while.
I, I watched it like when I was alreadyout of college for the first time.
And when I watched it,I was like, I get why.
Teenagers become insufferableabout this movie.
Yeah.

Chris (02:30):
I mean, I saw it before it was cool, but not because I was
cool, because I was a weirdo thatjust looked at DVDs constantly, so I
was a little bit ahead of the curve.
But, uh, it's popularity never annoyed me.
It was always one of those, like,yes, people are watching it.
Good.
Grand.

George (02:50):
One of the best true to life how teenagers actually
speak movies, in my opinion.
Um, there's a line in it where,like, Jake Gyllenhaal's friend is
like, he offers him a cigarette.
And he's like, some good shit, huh?
And Tommy's like, it'sa fucking cigarette.

(03:11):
Oh man, it just like, it lives rentfree in my head, it's so funny to me,
and so like, honest to how me and myfriends talked when we were teenagers,
like, being like, Yeah, we're doingfucking drugs and it's like, like one
cigarette that we're passing around.

Chris (03:27):
Yeah.
Speaking of the way kids actuallytalk, I did get to see monster squad
in theaters last week, so that was fun.
That's cool.
Childhood favorite of mine.
It was one of those, like, 11 a.
m.
No way that my significant otheris going to be awake to watch this.
So I'm just going to go to the movietheater and it was a good choice.

(03:47):
Still a great movie.

Brantley (03:48):
Hell yeah.
Hell yeah.
Yeah.
I got to revisit that.
I might revisit that this spooky season.
I love, I, I love the monstersquad so much and I would like.
Try to tell people who love theGoonies, You'll like this movie!
The Monster Squad!
You should watch this!
It's so much better!
And like, I don't think I convincedanybody to like it more than the Goonies.
Uh, does it have theTruffle Shuffle in it?

(04:09):
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
It was like 95 percent of folkswere like, Goonies people with that
5 percent who are Monster Squad

George (04:15):
people.
They got it.
They got it, that's right.

Chris (04:18):
Well, shall we just get into it then?
Let's do it.
Let's do it.
Alright.
I

Brantley (04:22):
have to post a quick correction before we get into it.
My wife will probably neverlisten to this, but I messed up.
I said bottle rocket in Dying Darko,it was Rushmore in Dying Darko.
Oh my god.
And I just, before I get thrown, you know,into the doghouse, I have to correct that.

Chris (04:37):
You know, I had a similar thing, uh, DK was talking about some very, like,
obscure movies and I said the wrong one.
And then later I looked it up andI said, like, the wrong name when I
meant a different one and I've beenthinking about it for two weeks.
Yes.
I meant to say NightBeast, not Alien Factor.
What's wrong with you?
Oh my god.
Oh, you fool.

George (04:57):
How could you possibly fuck

Chris (04:58):
that up?
I don't know.
But, uh, yeah.
So, welcome to Dead Formats, a moviepodcast where each episode we tunnel deep
underground in search of time capsulescontaining forgotten cinematic medicines.
I'm your host, Chris.
In this episode, we're goingto be discussing a couple of V
cinema bangers, Gaki Dama from1985 and biotherapy from 1986.

(05:23):
And today I'm joined by two very specialguests who have both been known to do
the devil's research from time to time.
Brantley and George.
Welcome.
How are you guys doing this evening?

Brantley (05:33):
Doing great, man.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having us.
I'm excited.
I'm, uh, I'm excited about thispodcast in general, but also just
the You continuing this podcast.
I think it's a great idea.
What a fun idea for a for a pod.
Thank you

George (05:47):
I am also very excited to be here.
I'm wearing my pulse shirt For for inhonor of our V cinema episode I am really
looking forward to it and part of what I'mreally excited about not only with this
episode But with this podcast in generalis that Chris, uh, has always been one of

(06:08):
the people who, who, like, I can rely onto introduce me to new and exciting horror
cinema, and this was no, uh, this was nodifferent, you know, getting to watch true
grody gore and, and fun stuff that I hadnever heard of, but that I was so eager
to dive into and, and it delivered, baby.

Chris (06:29):
Hell yeah.
Well, I'm glad.
So Brantley is one half of the horrordrafts podcast and a filmmaker and George
is the former host by the time this comesout of the best little house in Philly.
R.
I.
P.
So guys tell the listenersa little about what you do.

George (06:46):
Uh, so, Best Little Horror House in Philly, uh, as I said, now
defunct, but was the podcast where wetalked about the best horror movie ever
made, according to our guest at least,um, every episode, whatever movie the
guest picked as the best horror movieever made, I agreed with them, and,
uh, we talked about its place in horrorhistory and what made it the best.

(07:07):
Before, uh, you know, getting throughthe plot and the themes and everything,
and really, really taking a pretty,um, granular approach to the, to the
themes and the research and everything.

Brantley (07:19):
And yeah, uh, if folks want to check it out, uh, I am half of the podcast
Horror Drafts, where we invite a guest on,or multiple guests, uh, each episode, and
they bring a topic in the world of horror.
And then we draft it, as you woulda, a sports team, uh, you know.
And, uh, it's just fun, it's silly,it's also very time consuming, so
we are a very irregular podcast.

(07:41):
And Nick and I, my co hosts, we'reboth quite busy, unfortunately.
So, uh, you know, that certainlylimits our ability to do it, but It
still is technically running, we justput it out every once in a while.
We had, uh, a great, uh, episode,relatively recently, called Trapped,
uh, with the Five Day Reynolds boys,and, uh, we drafted all horror movies

(08:03):
in which people are trapped, uh, inone way or another, and that was a
pretty loose interpretation of whatthat meant, so that was a fun episode.
Two great tastes that taste greattogether, as far as I'm concerned.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate that.

Chris (08:16):
Yeah, no big fan of both of your shows.
Um, I've been on both of them andI would be on them again anytime.
If it weren't for the defunctness andthe irregularity of the release schedule,
so, uh, but I mean,you're also a filmmaker.
Brantley, did you want to talk about that?
I know you're working on um, Adocumentary film as we speak.

Brantley (08:40):
Yeah.
I'm in the, uh, deep in the productionof a, of a sports documentary.
Actually.
It's very different than my first film.
Um, I don't know when this willeventually be out, hopefully by next year.
I'm not sure exactly.
Um, but my first film, if peopleare interested in it is called
everything to entertain you withthe story of video headquarters.

(09:00):
Uh, Blu ray for that is stillavailable at vinegarsyndrome.
com.
People can find it there.
Um, as sales come about, it'llprobably be in most of the sales
now that it's been out for a while.
Um, and that is, uh, does havea digital distribution deal.
And I think by the end of October, Idon't know when this comes out, but by

(09:21):
the end of October, that should be upon a few different streaming services.
Cool.
So people will probablybe able to find it online.
Um, and yeah, you know,it's a, it's a 60 minute.
So it's a Gakidama length, uh,documentary, um, about, uh,
what was a very, um, amazingvideo store in New Hampshire,

(09:44):
but also specifically its owner.
And, um, and I think the thing that'sresonated with a lot of people, if
they have no, you know, um, You know,history with the video headquarters
was that it digs into a lot of the waysthat independent video stores survived.
Um, like kind of the behind the scenesbusiness stuff of it, from buying
groups and pooling resources togetherto, you know, the trade shows that were

(10:09):
available to, you know, both independentvideo stores and, and everyone else.
So there's a lot of fun kind of,um, stuff in it, even if you didn't
know VHQ as a individual store.

George (10:19):
Really great documentary, and I definitely encourage
people to check it out.
But what I'm really interested inis this new usage of Gakidama as a
yardstick for the length of movies.
Oh, how long was that?
Oh my God, dude, it wastwo and a half Gakidama.
It's way too long.

Chris (10:34):
Or it was two biotherapies.
It was kind of short.
Oh, yeah, there you go.
Seriously, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
So, yeah, as we are alluding to, directto video is the dead format of the day.
And not just that, but a veryspecific Kind of direct to video
called V cinema and not just that,but a very specific type of V cinema.

(10:55):
Um, and I brought these two on herebecause it's sort of a sub sub sub
sub genre that isn't too well known.
And I figured that given both of yourbackgrounds as people who are used to
doing massive amounts of research onthings, you'd probably both be open to
learning about some horror films thatyou may have not heard about before.
So we're either of you familiarwith V cinema prior to this.

George (11:18):
For me, it was, um, it's the kind of thing where it's like, I have a
familiarity with like the time period,but if you were like, was this distributed
on film or was it direct to video?
Like, I probably wouldn't be able tonecessarily pick every single one, but
there also, there also are definitelylike hallmarks, whether it's just visual

(11:39):
or otherwise of like things to look for.
And so when I was thinking about,um, What movies I might have seen,
you know, and, and even ones that Iknew were like, more direct to video.
Um, Kiyoshi Kurosawa is a,I'm a big fan of his movies.
I fell in love with cure and basicallydid a deeper dive and some of the
weirder stuff like charisma and seance.

(12:00):
Like, these are weird TV movies that are.
You know, I feel like it feels likethey don't necessarily need to be
quite as broad reaching, you know,they can come out and be about the
push and pull surrounding a tree namedcharisma and people trying to tear it

(12:21):
down versus keep it up or sounds likea couple finds a kidnapped girl and
they're like, we're going to get famouspretending to psychically find her.
And then when they put her back in thekidnap spot, she dies and like, it's very.
Z, and the only thing that feels made forTV is like, it's a little more reserved.
And so it's like, yeah, things like that.

(12:42):
I'm like, I couldn't differentiateit from his more cinematic stuff
necessarily in terms of the content.
But when someone tells me like.
Oh, that technically falls intothis subgenre where like, oh,
it was made for TV and that'swhy it looks the way it does.
It does become a little bit morelike, uh, of an understandable thing.

(13:02):
Oh, I get why it looks this way now, youknow, I've seen the ring and the ring
two and dark water and like, it's like,well, is, I don't know, is dark water.
Did that have a cinematic release?
Like, I, I don't even know.
Uh, I forgot to look it upwhen I wrote that down, but.
Um, yeah, just things like that.
I've, uh, Tetsuo, like, I thinkis technically V Cinema, maybe?

Chris (13:25):
Maybe.
That might have gotten atheatrical release, surprisingly.

George (13:29):
Well, see, there we go, right?
So, uh, for me, it really is, like, I, Iam just kind of throwing darts, but have
seen a lot of the stuff around it, even ifI haven't seen a lot of it specifically.

Chris (13:40):
Right.
Brantley, how about you?

Brantley (13:45):
Yeah, I mean, so, here's what I'll say.
I was not as experienced with the genre,or sub sub sub sub genre as, uh, George
or or you were, but I I at least knewof it because it was one of the topics
I believe you threw out when we werediscussing you coming on Horror Traps.
Um, however, both Nick and I, being veryinexperienced with it, we went with,

(14:05):
I believe, obscure slashers instead.
Yes, we did.
Thank you.
Which I think actually still allowedyou to bring in some, you know,
Japanese horror, although I don'trecall, I think you did bring in
some V Cinema to that, didn't you?

Chris (14:17):
Um, Evil Dead Trap was one of the ones I picked.
I don't remember if that one istechnically a direct to video or not.

Brantley (14:26):
Okay, gotcha, gotcha.
To George's

Chris (14:28):
point.

Brantley (14:28):
Yeah, so I, I was at least aware of it, but I would say I had
very little experience with it.
Um, you know, a lot of the Japanese horrorI watched was more that, like, classic
J horror stuff, like The Ring and Ju onand, or Ring U, excuse me, I should say,
and Ju on, you know, that kind of stuff.
So Yeah, I really have verylittle experience with it.

Chris (14:49):
Wow.
Good.
I'm glad that I could introduceit to you in such a fashion.
I mean, but as it relates to directto video more broadly, I mean, not
just specifically Japanese stuff, Iknow, like, is there any favorites,
you know, that's kind of, we sortof grew up in a time where that is.
The thing, you know, all of the horrorfranchises would eventually make their

(15:12):
way to just being released to video and Imean, really, you worked at a video store.
So I'm wondering if there's anyof those titles from that time
that really stick out to you.

Brantley (15:22):
Oh, man, that's a good question.
Um,

George (15:25):
Mine's not horror.

Brantley (15:28):
You go ahead, George.
Yeah, chime in with yours.
Mine is Lion King one and a half.

Chris (15:33):
Oh, wow.

George (15:36):
First of all, big Lion King fan.
When I was growing up, I had to have threecopies of it on VHS because it was worn
out in a different spot on each copy.
And I also am just generallylike a big Shakespeare fan.
I love Shakespeare.
Hamlet, I think that itis really, really fun.
I love that the Lion King is, youknow, some people say it's loosely

(15:58):
adapted, but it's basically justHamlet with lion skin slapped on it.
And, um, Lion King one and a half,they were like, Hey, uh, we've seen
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead.
Wouldn't that be fun toalso do for the Lion King?
And it turns out the answeris yes, it is very fun.
And I even revisited it not that longago because I was on another podcast.

(16:20):
Called Soundtracker, also avery fun podcast, which I'll
encourage people to check out.
And we were talking about the LionKing, and in my research for the Lion
King, I rewatched Lion King One anda Half, just to see how it held up.
And it turns out theanswer is, uh, pretty well.
Although, there's a lot of emphasison, like, Timon being Jewish and, like,
having, like, a Borscht Belt upbringing.

(16:43):
Um, it's a little strange,but it's also fun.
Yeah.
Interesting.

Brantley (16:49):
I mean, for me, it's, it's interesting.
Cause it's like, I mean, back then,like, it feels like going straight
to video was like a real sign and oflike a downgrade in quality, right?
Like nowadays, like what is straightto, is that straight to streaming?
Is that like the core, youknow, the correlation now?
And it's like, who knows whatthat even means, but like.

(17:09):
I mean, I remember watching a tonof, like, schlocky action movies
that were, like, straight to video,although many of them I probably
don't remember the names of.
I do remember that, like, youknow, you can't copyright a title.
So, like, I remember the first videostore I worked at, we had, like, seven
movies called Body Count that were,like, probably all straight to video
action movies, like, that were just in,like, our action section or whatever.

(17:33):
Um, but I would say, like, ifwe're staying in the realm of
horror specifically, I mean, like,A lot of the full moon features.
That's probably like the ones thatdefinitively have a special place in
my heart, you know, like, um, you know,like the puppet master, uh, franchise.
Um, and, um, I think I watchedthe first demonic toys for sure.

(17:55):
Um, and I don't think Iwatched like the, the.
Extensions of that until later,like the doll man versus the
demonic toys and stuff like that.
Um, so like, but also those kindof tie in, I think, to what we're
talking about today, because thoseare a lot of great puppet work and,
uh, well, a lot of fun puppet work.
It wasn't great.

(18:15):
Uh, but the ones todaywe watched were great.
I think, I think in a, in a lot of ways.
So, um, those were probablythe ones that have a spot.
I mean, but I also love like any ofthose horror movies that have like small.
Uh, puppeted things.
So like the, you know, critters andghoulies and munchie and munchies
and all of that stuff was like

Chris (18:34):
speaking my language.
Great.

Brantley (18:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And gremlins,

Chris (18:37):
of course, the big one, you know, Charles band had a profound
effect on, I think people in, in ourage range that grew up into horror
because that is his total thing.
Uh, Absolutely.
He's struck gold with PuppetMaster and has been trying to
come up with new franchises ofsmall things attacking ever since.

George (18:56):
Yes.
Yeah.
You'd think one time he'd gofor a big thing attacking.
He just can't make that leap.
Well, they

Chris (19:03):
So.
Full Moon did have two kaiju films.

George (19:06):
Oh, okay.
Alright, I stand corrected.
My apologies, Charles.
So, I thought it was funny that youwere like, Uh, you know, oh, what does
it even mean to be direct to video now?
Like, it's not really as muchof a comment on quality, and
I was like, Yeah, he's right.
Like, it really doesn't mean anything.
And then I had, like, a flash ofthat Winnie the Pooh blood and honey.

(19:30):
I was like, oh, it can't still be bad.

Brantley (19:34):
Yeah, yeah, sure, sure.
I mean, you know, that's, that'sthe nature of like art though.
And in movies, especially, it's like, youknow, I mean, theatrical movies can be
garbage, you know, like the home videoones now we're straight to streaming.
It's like.
Such a crap shoot.
I mean,

George (19:49):
it really just is more about circumventing the like gatekeeper
threshold of studios deciding whatgets to be seen by the masses or not.
And, uh, in that way, I certainlylove it for for for that.

Chris (20:03):
Yeah.

George (20:03):
Yeah.
Curse you studio gatekeepers.

Chris (20:08):
Yeah, you guys are speaking my language after all
the research I was doing for this.
Um, so I, I guess.
Possibly you two and most of the peoplelistening are like, what is V cinema?
And so that term comes from a specificline of direct to video releases produced
by Toei beginning in 1989 with the releaseof Crime Hunter Bullets of Rage, which

(20:33):
I recently watched and is pretty good.
It's kind of weird.
Um, it is a completely Japaneseproduced movie that Sensibly takes
place somewhere in America, I think,so they can have the, all the good cop
action that we have in American movies,but they explain it away by like, Oh,
these two cops work in a little Tokyo.

(20:54):
So everyone speaks Japanese.
Oh,

Brantley (20:57):
gotcha.

Chris (20:57):
Yeah.
So in the U S at least, I'mnot sure about in Japan.
V cinema has become genericized term forany Japanese direct to video film, not
necessarily the ones released by Toei.
And as we were talking about, you know,it's seen as like the direct to video
label is like seen as pejorative herebecause it's like a synonym for not

(21:21):
good enough to be in movie theaters,but that's not really the case in
Japan because the development of thehome video market there was completely
different than it was in the U.
S.
Mainly due to two factors, whichare Unlike Hollywood studios, who
were initially hostile towards theidea of selling videotapes with pre
recorded material, Japanese studioswere very enthusiastic about creating

(21:44):
a home video market in Japan.
And the second reason is that thedevelopment of the home video market
occurred in both of those countriessimultaneously, but The U S was in
an economic recession and Japan wasin an economic boom, which allowed
the Japanese studios more latitude togamble on this new medium and explore

(22:05):
the, like the uncertainty of that.
So pretty much everything youguys just intuitively knew is
true about direct to video movies.

George (22:15):
You can feel it, you can feel it in the bones of,
of the movies that we watched.

Chris (22:20):
Yeah.
Um, and even though like the Japanesestudios were totally behind this, it
still did take them a while to fully formthat direct to video production market.
Um, owing to what is referredto as the age of confusion.
The period of time from roughly1981 to 1989, during which there
was to quote Jonathan Clements fromhis 2013 book Anime, A History.

(22:45):
There was no clear consensus amongproducers and investors as to how video
might best be exploited commercially,leading to chaotic experiments in content.
Gakudama and biotherapy are twosuch chaotic experiments in content.
Also, at this time is when youstart seeing, like, those really
strange OVAs and Pinku films.

(23:08):
And God, there's just so muchI could go into on this, but I
really had to edit myself a bit.

George (23:14):
That's a familiar feeling.
There's someone I follow on Letterboxd whois, like, going through every Pinku movie.
Not possible.
They're making a God's honesteffort at it and watching from the
sideline is like truly remarkable.
And it's funny because every timeI'm like, yeah, I'm so cool and edgy.

(23:34):
Look at me watching the deep cut blackEmmanuel movies and then I like, go
on letterboxd to type in an entryand I see what they're watching.
I'm like, I'm not I'm not shit, man.
I'm not I'm not even close to the

Brantley (23:47):
level of what

George (23:47):
some

Brantley (23:48):
people are watching these days.
Oh, that's great.
I mean, I, I wonder too, like, I mean,so much of this stuff is, is great.
I love people exploring and gettingto, like, go down all these deep
rabbit holes, but part of me isjust like, who has the time, right?
So, like, more power to these folks ifthey've got the time to do it, like,
I kind of wish, like, I feel likethe time I was the most, like, into
that sort of exploration was, like,teens into, like, early 20s, which,

(24:11):
of course, coincides to the time I'min, like, high school and college, and
even though I was working, you know,I still have, like, The most free time
to kind of put all my efforts towards,like, exploring cinema and all these
different avenues and things like that.
Um, I kind of wish Istill had that much time.
I think that would be great to,yeah, have more time to explore.
But,

George (24:31):
uh, one thing I just thought was, um, kind of interesting that you
had, um, sort of touched on before.
And then I think that perhaps youwill appreciate both of you due to
your interest in archiving as well.
In that.
Part of what I find interesting aboutnot being able to necessarily tell which
is the cinema versus which is not whathad a theatrical release and what didn't

(24:55):
is that as we become a little furtherremoved from the actual release of
these and as it becomes less documented.
Like, the, the path that each of thesemovies takes, especially the more
obscure ones, where it's, it's justnot, the information is not accessible,
you know, you look up a movie andit's like a sentence or two about it

(25:15):
and you go, well, where did it play?
What kind of money went into it?
Like, all these things that becomemore and more difficult to find
without proper archiving of.
The, the immediacy, the taking thesteps to preserve that information,
um, is part of why it becomes a littlebit more hairsplitty here, and I just,

(25:35):
it's like, you know, as someone whois enthusiastic about archiving, it is
like, this is one of the ripples thatpeople don't think about in terms of just
like, the way you label things becomesmuddy if you don't do those things.

Chris (25:49):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I'm definitely veryinto archiving things.
I mean, I have looking over it somany videotapes that are not even
on IMDb that need to be archived.
No, this is shocking to me, Chris.
I didn't know this about you.
And yeah, it's, it's It's a massive task.
And with this little sub genre inparticular, it's a community that I'm

(26:14):
somewhat active in, but there's justso many roadblocks to ever getting any
of this in front of a wider audience.
Like not only is there a huge languagebarrier because I don't speak Japanese.
So any research I do on this.
Is filtered through that.
I mean, I took two Japanese classesin college, so I know about as much
as like a three year old maybe,

(26:37):
but then on top of that, it's just, howcan you note what to search for if it's
not even documented online anywhere, it'sjust hours and hours of scrolling through
sites like, Oh, that looks interesting.
So yeah, there's just a, and thenon top of that, like once the.
The home video market becamelike a huge thing in Japan.

(26:58):
A lot of movies were funded by theYakuza to make a quick buck off of.
So they're not the type ofpeople that are going to be like.
Uh, yeah, we'll give you therights, Vinegar Syndrome.
Like they don't care.
They've made theirmoney off of it already.
Like they don't see anypractical use of putting, like,
some random movie on Blu ray.

Brantley (27:18):
Hey, that's a connection that Japan and America had.
Yeah.
Certain nefarious peopleputting together funds to make
movies quick for a quick buck.
And

George (27:28):
then also saying they don't give a shit about preserving it.
Right.

Brantley (27:31):
Yeah,

Chris (27:32):
yeah.
Yeah.
And I also find that.
Japanese studios have a thing wherethey seem to not like the bottom line
is not as important to them as likesaving their reputation, it seems, or
like not putting out something froman earlier period in their company
that they now think is substandard.
Uh, to bring it back to Kiyoshi Kurosawa,he has a movie that I absolutely love

(27:55):
called, uh, Sweet Home, made by Toho,famous director, it was the basis for
Resident Evil, never gotten a discrelease because they just don't care.
Or whatever, or maybe they'relike, we don't make those movies
anymore or something like that.
Who knows?

George (28:16):
And it's funny too, because you'd think that at some point they'd
be like, okay, well, we don't care.
But if you want to takethe risk, go ahead.
But they're also very, like,precious about their properties too.
They're like, no, it's ours.
It's ours to do nothing with.

Chris (28:32):
That's the whole thing, because a lot of these examples I can think
of are specifically Toho, like.
They have a movie called propheciesof Nostradamus that had like
depictions of That were drewparallels to people that would have
been injured by nuclear explosions.
So that has never been released becausethey're like, that's, you know, in
bad taste, which yeah, it is, but alsoit happened like you already did it.

(28:55):
Right.
So maybe preserve that for history.
Um, or like the famous Godzillaversus the wolf man, which was
made by the crew members on set.
And they could, if they releasedthat, People would buy it.
God, I

George (29:08):
want it.
I want it so bad.

Chris (29:10):
It's probably 20 minutes of footage with no sound, but every
Godzilla fan would love to have it.

Brantley (29:17):
Right.
I just wanted to say, you know,uh, you mentioned things being
labeled and, and everything, George.
I've, I always say, like, anarchive's only as good as its
metadata and its documentation.
Because, you know, you're gonna havenew people coming in working there down
the road, and, you know, we have, youknow, we're a small college where I work.
Thousands upon thousands of photographs.
I have a general sense of what thingsare, but if they're not like organized

(29:40):
properly, I can say, okay, well thisis at least athletics and this is
women's soccer, you know, whatever,even if I don't, and circa the nineties.
Right.
So I can at least like organize it, butI'm not going to know who's in that photo.
I'm not going to know who the coach ison the sideline or anything like that or
specific date, unless that's, you know,marked in the metadata on the back of it.
Right now, sometimes that certainly leadsto issues and how things are labeled, but.

(30:02):
You know, the fact that someone in thattime thought to at least write that
information shows that they're thinkingto the future in a way that I don't think
current generations are, you know, asit comes to the legacy of so much of our
media and, you know, you, you mentionedthe, the difficulty in finding out if
something was, you know, in theatersor not because of like, you know,

(30:23):
finding the material, was it archived?
I worry now about this, the born digitalera, because, you know, we have this
idea that the internet is written inpen, but there is so much stuff that
has disappeared off the internet, andwe're recording this not very long after
the internet archive was just hacked,um, and, you know, who knows what's
gonna happen to, like, the WaybackMachine, even, you know, like, the, uh,

(30:46):
You know, this is the worry, and it'sthe kind of existential crisis that
I feel as an archivist who also makesmovies but shoots on digital, is like,
well, how do I preserve this long term?
You know, the great thing about film isthat, like, you know, if a canister of
film from the 19 teens was found, And,you know, you could still possibly salvage

(31:08):
some or all of that film because film isso durable for long term preservation.
Yes, it will eventually break down.
Yes, the gases will releaseand deteriorate the film.
But that happens at such a slow rate, thatfilm is still the best thing we have for
long term preservation in motion pictures.
A hard drive found a hundred yearsfrom now is going to be useless.
Not only will it not work, everythinginside of it will have corroded,

(31:30):
that you won't be able to take theplatter out and put it into another.
It just will not work.
So There is now, like, digital tofilm transfers, but it's so expensive.
Strike

George (31:40):
it, Brantley!
Strike it!

Brantley (31:42):
Honestly, I mean, just to put, like, an hour long movie
like mine, it's, you know, or, uh,Gakidama, you know, like, a film like
that to, to, onto a film, it was,like, several thousands of dollars.
I wanna say six or eight thousanddollars for an hour to do that.
And that's just the finished film.
What about all the other elements?
What about the individual interviewsI did, or all the other footage, you

(32:03):
know, like, Yes, we have cloud storage.
Yes, we have like hard drives andI can keep transferring them to new
hard drives every few years, you know,but it's like redundancy, exactly.
That's all it is.
And it's just, you just have to hopethat you have enough backups and hope
that server racks and rate arrays don'tfail and you know, all of this stuff.
And as we move into an era where moreand more crazy climate change and energy

(32:28):
things become issues, like who's to sayif, you know, even cloud backups that are
probably backups on backups on backupson backups, like none of those like
server farms are going to fail because ofmassive like power outages or whatever.
It's.
I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer oranything, but it's like, but, but this
is the existential crisis because Yeah,

George (32:47):
you're the crazy one, stream heads!
Yeah,

Brantley (32:51):
uh, yeah, I mean, just, you know, I would love if I could
just put everything onto film, likeall of my raw footage or whatever,
but that would be so prohibitivelyexpensive, it's impossible, essentially.

George (33:01):
And it's such a self fulfilling prophecy, too, where it bec it's
Because people don't do it and peopledon't do it because it's so expensive.
And so it becomes more and more and moreniche because it becomes something that
only very wealthy people can afford to do.
Uh, and it is really, yeah,just such a issue with, uh,

(33:22):
you know, having to sort of.
Uh, kowtow, and say, oh, please,benefactor, pay for, for this to
be preserved appropriately, and forthem to go yes or no, depending on
their mood, like Toho, being like,no, we don't care about these movies.
There are people who want it.
They're like this.
It is like an active demand,but because they're not

(33:45):
interested It's just like okay.
Well, I guess we'll just get fucked.

Brantley (33:50):
Yep And I also just wanted to mention too.
I'm sorry.
I know I ran for a long time I hadanother thought you talked about what
did you call it from 81 to 89 the age of

Chris (33:59):
age of confusion?

Brantley (34:00):
confusion But what that bred in that time was all that
experimentation you talked about.
And it just reminds me so muchof all of these other industries.
It reminds me of like the HBO, uh,and Showtime, like that direct like
paid movie channel, which then beganexploring putting television shows
out themselves or the beginning of thestreaming era where when that started

(34:22):
in like Oh seven or whatever, it'slike, Oh, there's a, like, 10, 000
horrible movies on this thing calledon the Netflix is like streaming thing.
That's weird I don't know what that is.
And now streaming is this crazy fuckingbeast that is just like yeah gone
crazy and morphed and explored but italso reminds me of like early days of
like video stores even where you'reexperimenting in ways to get people in

(34:43):
the door and running different like,you know, programs or sweepstakes or
whatever, you know, like different likeUh, promotions, maybe people want 15
minute videos and we'll call it Quibi.
Yes, exactly.
Right.
It's just, uh, kind of interesting thatI'm sure it was like a big market of
confusion as, as it was called, but likethat at least breeds like a certain like

(35:06):
necessity to survive and explore thingsthat can lead to other great things.
So.

Chris (35:12):
Yeah, I mean, that's a, I would say that's also a difference between
the Japanese home video market andthe U S is that the U S we're kind
of just like, well, we don't wantthis because we want the theater
experience to be the movie experience.
Like we don't want tosell prerecorded stuff.
So, by the time the first deal wasstruck between Magnetic Video and

(35:33):
20th Century Fox to do that, like,Toho started their video division in
1969, before, like, anyone have reallyhad video machines in their house.
I mean, maybe the U Matic existedthen, but that would have been,
like, extremely expensive.
Like, Me Matic?

Brantley (35:51):
Yeah, and Udematic was still more of like a broadcast format.
That wasn't really it was thatmuch from a consumer format?
So not over here, but

Chris (35:59):
Japan wasn't the ones that developed all of these things They
usually did have consumer versionsof all of it Just like with video
8 like it existed over here ButI think maybe one like video 8

George (36:12):
was part of the barrier.

Chris (36:14):
Yeah, and Like, yeah, we've, we've talked about how these movies are short.
That was part of that age of confusionis that they couldn't even decide
like how long these movies should be.
So rental stores actually haddifferent pricing based on how long
the movie was, which is pretty cool.

Brantley (36:30):
What the heck?
That's great.
I was gonna ask, like, you know, it's likea 35 minute and like a 56 minute movie.
These, you know, are very, uh, odd.
I mean, I thought maybe, like, you know,these played on television as well.
And so, like, a 55 or 56 minutemovie would fit into, like,
an hour block or something.
But the 35 minute one felt like itdidn't fit into any normal TV structure.

(36:53):
Yeah,

George (36:53):
yeah.
I messaged Chris.
I said, I need biotherapy to be longer.
I need a feature length biotherapy,but it's funny to me that these
together form one feature length block.
Yeah.
A quite delightful one as well, I might

Chris (37:08):
add.
I think, um, even like with CrimeHunter, that is a 60 minute movie
and I can't remember if it was one ofthe executives from Toei or Nikatsu,
but he would hang out at video storesand he saw some guy like renting five
movies that were like two day rentals.
And he was like, howcan you possibly watch?
All of those movies in two days.

(37:28):
And he's like, well, I justfast forward to the good parts.
So they made crime Hunter a 60 minutemovie because they're like, we're
going to make movies that people willnot want to fast forward through.
Eventually they did transitionto like 90 minutes as the norm.
But that was one of the thingsthey tried out back then.

George (37:46):
I want to go back in time and fight that guy who said that he
just fast forwards to the good part.

Chris (37:52):
You don't know what movies he was watching.

George (37:55):
I don't care.
Watch the damn movie.

Chris (37:59):
Yeah.
So like I said, I mean, I could goon about this a lot, but if anyone is
interested to learn more about the wholeJapanese home video market, and there's
also like a good amount about the Americanhome video market, just To provide some
contrast but you should definitely checkout V cinema canons of japanese film
and the challenge of video by tom messand the role of genre and film from

(38:23):
japan transformations 1960s to the 2000sby alexander zaltan Those are the two
sources that are written in English.
So if you want to learn more,you don't have a choice.
If you don't speak Japanese.
have

George (38:35):
also read part of that, the rollo genre in Japan.

Chris (38:40):
They're both very good.
And to go back to something you weretalking about earlier, a lot of what
Tom Mez begins his Uh, well, theseare both doctoral dissertations.
I think

George (38:49):
Tom might even be the commentary guy on a lot of
the Shinya Tsukamoto stuff.
He

Chris (38:55):
probably is.
Um, one of the things he begins hisdissertation with is just talking
about that gatekeeping processand like, how do we form cannons?
And like, it's always seen througha Western lens when like, Direct to
video stuff is very important to Japan.
I mean, Takashi Miike did like 24direct to video movies before audition.

(39:16):
And so it, you know, it's somethingthat it's completely different
there because here you wouldn'ttraditionally make a leap.
Like, uh, Cynthia Rothrock was notgoing to be in like big budget.
Uh, Hollywood films, butthat's not the case there.
Um, a lot of famous actors anddirectors and people below the

(39:36):
line started out in V cinema.

George (39:39):
Hell yeah.
Love that upward mobility.

Chris (39:41):
Yeah.
Um, yeah, so, uh, Gakidama wasreleased in 1985 by Toshiba of
all, of all companies to do it.
Nice.
I actually have here Gakidama on VHS.
Wow.
Hell yeah.
Betamax.
Nice.
Hell yeah.
Laserdisc.
Whoa!

(40:02):
Oh, shit!
And, uh, I actually have the DVD of it,which is what you guys watched, and I
was a fan of this movie for a coupleyears before I even knew that there was
a DVD, because that typically is notthe case with these sorts of movies.
Also, to my surprise, it has amaking of featurette on it, which is

George (40:24):
I couldn't believe it

Chris (40:26):
blew my mind

George (40:27):
and it was great.
It was awesome.

Chris (40:29):
Yeah,

George (40:29):
it was so funny because while I was watching it, I was like,
this is so much more valuable to me.
To see how a low budgetmovie is making it work.
Yeah,
then to see like a big budget making of where it's just the cast fawning
over each other and saying, oh, it wasso wonderful to work with these people.
It is really great.
Although I also didn't have to laugh.

(40:50):
There was some stuff that was like.
The fog is created by a fog.

Chris (40:55):
So on that note, I will say that, uh, neither the DVD version of this, nor
the making a featurette were availableonline anywhere before I bought this.
I actually subtitled that makinga featurette because it does
not come with English subtitles.
So they are AI generated subtitles, which.
Wood, and I was pretty lazy about it.

(41:17):
I just threw it in thereand didn't edit it.
So that would probably accountfor the fog is made by the fog

George (41:23):
machine.
There we go.
Alright, they're off the hook.
Yeah, I mean,

Chris (41:27):
not a whole lot of like, speaking in that anyway.
Yeah, for

George (41:31):
sure, for sure.
It's more about watchingthe special effects happen.
And also, what the listener didn't seeis that Chris took all of those formats
out of each other like a Matryoshka doll.
Yeah.

Brantley (41:41):
Mm hmm.
It was impressive, especially how yougot the Laserdisc inside the beta,
because that was the biggest challenge.
Really shocking

George (41:48):
to watch.

Brantley (41:49):
Yeah.
I'm actually shocked it'son all those formats.

Chris (41:52):
Well, I think being Toshiba, you know, they were an
established company, they havethat, but also like, And they use it

George (41:59):
as a showcase for their, they're like every, every video
player goes out with a copy of you

Chris (42:06):
walk into the Toshiba flagship store and it's just on
20 CRTs on the wall, that's right.
It's the thing

George (42:13):
that's It sells the platform like Wii Sports did for the Wii.

Chris (42:17):
Yeah.

Brantley (42:17):
There you go.
But um.
Now here.
Go ahead.
Oh, sorry.
I was gonna ask.
Is that a Toshiba television theyblow up at the uh, in the movie?

Chris (42:24):
I didn't.
You know, I didn't check that.
I'm sure it isn't.
Could

Brantley (42:28):
go, yeah.
Could go either way.
We're gonna put a Sony

Chris (42:30):
in there.
Sony's blow up.
Yeah, there you go.
If you throw a puppet at it.

Brantley (42:34):
They probably put a competitor in there that's, uh,
even though it's turned off, it'llexplode if you throw a coin at it.
Yeah.

Chris (42:40):
Yeah.
But, uh, to your point, Brantley, like,it actually is not, like, Laserdisc was
far more popular in Japan than it ever washere, so it's not uncommon for things to
solely have been released on Laserdisc.

George (42:55):
Also, I have to say that Toshiba is the fool because if I throw a
Gakidama at a TV, I want it to explode.
So I'm going to go shoppingwith their competitors now.

Chris (43:07):
Fair enough.
Um, this was directedby Masayoshi Tsukida.
Who only directed one other film,which was actually just a single
segment in an anthology film, but heis a pretty well known photographer.
I don't know if either of youlook this up, but he did a
lot of work with David Bowie.
He is the one that took the picture that'son the front of the hero's album of David

(43:28):
Bowie holding his hands up like this.
So nice.
Um The cast, not really anyonehe would be familiar with.
It's interesting.
Both of these films have a thing whereeveryone in the cast was either only
in this or they were in like 50 otherthings, but still somehow Gakitama
is like the most popular thing onLetterboxd that they've been in.

George (43:51):
It's funny to me that you say that and now connecting that with
you saying that like, Oh, you know,it's machine generated translation
of the of the text and everything.
And there's a point early on inthe making of in the like press
conference section where he's like.
The cast is really attractive, so Ithink it's gonna go really well, and I

(44:12):
like, wonder if that is a mistranslation,or if he was just like, yeah, you
don't know anyone, but they're allfucking hot, so you're gonna love this

Brantley (44:20):
movie.
Oh, that's a good point.
Yeah, I was thinking hewas like, we got this.
These young, hot up and coming ones.
And then it's like, you know, you see somany American actors who start in like a
horror movie when they're young, right?
And then they're like an A list actorlater, you know, Brad Pitt and like
cutting class or something like that.
This is our

George (44:36):
Jennifer

Brantley (44:36):
Aniston.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Chris (44:39):
So I did, I mentioned this to George like a couple months back
when we did an episode of his show,but I did really consider doing this.
As like, uh, best little horror housein Philly episode, because I love it.
I just felt that there wasn't enoughmeat on the bone, which we'll get into.
But that was the impetus for metranslating this making of feature.

(45:00):
And immediately I just loved the,the image of the director holding a
press conference next to this littlepuppet and like, yeah, we're going
to show the world what we can do.

Brantley (45:11):
That's right.
And they did.
And that was fun, because he said he'dbeen like a cinematographer for 20 years,
and this is like his, his first, uh,attempt at directing, so I was like,
oh, good for this fucking guy, I had noidea, I watched the Making of feature,
you know, after, obviously, so, I waslike, oh, that's all fucking great, now
it's kind of a bummer, he only directedone other thing, but, you know, obviously
he was a very skilled, uh, photographerand cinematographer, so that's good.

George (45:34):
Yeah, that was a major sweetie moment, when he was like,
oh, it's been a long time since I'vefelt like a beginner at anything,
it's like, oh, yeah, that's cute.

Chris (45:42):
Yeah, so, but, so he and the cast didn't have a lot of, uh, experience
or, well, he had experience, just notas a director, but the spectral effects
were done by Shinichi Wakasa, who isa very famous creature designer who
would go on to work on Godzilla vs.
Mechagodzilla 2, Gamera 2, Attack ofLegion, the Rebirth of Mothra trilogy,

(46:03):
And he was the one that did the redesignof Godzilla for the Millennium Era.
So humble beginnings in Gakidama to beingjust a Titan in Japanese special effects.

George (46:15):
How about that?
Um, this, uh, you know, this may not bea secret, but, uh, I like to, uh, toke
the devil's lettuce from time to time.
And, uh, I was doing so while watchingthis making of feature and, They were
like, they really bury that guy in plasterwas like the exact level where I was like,

(46:38):
wow, this is really unpleasant to watch.
Yeah.

Chris (46:41):
Have you, have you guys ever seen tourist trap the early Charles?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
Why they could make a movieabout how scary it would be
to be suffocated by plaster.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Watching it.
It really is something else.

George (46:55):
I just watched too.
Oh man.
What was it?
Um, I'm not going to get it.
I'm not going to pull it.

Chris (47:01):
I'm not gonna pull it.
Megalopolis.

George (47:04):
Oh, man.
I wish.
I wish.
You know what?
Here's what I'll do.
I'll look at my letterbox while you

Brantley (47:09):
guys

George (47:09):
vamp,

Brantley (47:10):
and, uh I was gonna say that, uh, I loved his segment of it,
too, when he was like, you know, notjust talking about the effects that he
did, but, you know, just being like,you know, I think we have the best
department on this film, but like,not in like a shitting on anyone way.
It was a very sweet way, because of,you know how much work they did and
all these different appliances andthings that they created for, for this.

(47:31):
And I love that.
I mean, um, you know, obviouslyit's a mid eighties film.
It's all practical.
And so, well, mostly practical.
I mean, um, you know, so the, you know,you can, See the seams here or there,
but to me that just adds to the charm.
Like I love watching a movie from thisera where you, you know, it's practical.
Some things look great.

(47:51):
Some, you know, maybe not the best,but like who cares that like that's
people working hard to like, youknow, make that effect happen.
And that's just, yeah, it'sjust, yeah, it's so fun.
I love those aspects.
Uh, I believe

George (48:03):
the movie that I was thinking of is Maxine.
Uh, the third of the Tai West Trilogy.
I haven't seen it.
I don't recommend it, so,don't, don't waste your time
going looking for that segment.

Brantley (48:14):
I haven't seen it yet either, but most people I've heard are not
fans of it either, unfortunately.

George (48:20):
Um, I do, however, agree with you completely that I love to see The
Seams, one of my favorite movies, notjust within kaiju movies, but in general.
Is Gamera versus Giran and it is becauseit is to me the platonic ideal of
movie that is still very fun and goodwhile also being very visibly practical

(48:42):
effects and miniatures and totallyvisible that it is people making a thing.
God, I, I just love it so much.
And I think that it is such,like, that to me is movie magic.
That's what people are talking about,is like, seeing that it's happening
and then suspending your disbeliefanyway, uh, is more interesting and

(49:03):
exciting to me than watching somethinga little bit fantastical, but CGI.
I mean, like, I need itto be completely real.

Chris (49:13):
So in short, you just think they're neat.

George (49:16):
I just think they're neat.
I do.
I really do.
Me and Marge, two peas in a pod.

Chris (49:23):
Yeah.
So this was, uh, it's actually basedon a short story by Baku Yumemakara.
I also have that, butit's only in Japanese.
So I didn't have time to read it.
What little I read, it seemed likethis is a pretty faithful adaptation.
Um, but, to get into the plot of this,the film begins with two men, Mr.

(49:44):
Morioka and Kitayan, ridinga train into the forest.
One asks, Hey, do youthink it will appear?
The Hitodama, in parentheses, will o wisp.
So, right off the bat, This one is abit confusing if you are unfamiliar
with Japanese folklore, uh, which goesfor most of us, uh, but basically,
Hitodama are balls of fire I actually,

George (50:06):
I actually do know this, but go ahead and explain it to Brantley.
Yeah, yeah.

Chris (50:09):
For, for Brantley's benefit, Hitodama are balls of fire that are the
souls of the dead, and in some traditionsare said to appear before a child is
born, which may be important later.
But I think this opening scene is like,it's very representative of something I
find about a lot of these age of confusionV cinema films where there's like

(50:34):
almost an impenetrable quality to them.
They're not being purposefullyobtuse, I don't think, but it's just.
I don't know, like, dideither of you get sort of that
feeling of, like, Will O Wisp?
Like, what the, like, whatare they talking about?

George (50:50):
I actually felt the opposite, where I was like, boy, they were
really laying it out for you, wherethis guy's like, I'm sent everywhere
a ghost appears, and now I have areputation as a ghost photographer,
how the heck did that happen?
And it's like, I bet I canfucking figure it out, my man!

Brantley (51:05):
Yeah, more with, uh, George on that.
I was like, oh, this islike a fun little setup.
Okay, it's exposition y here, butokay, they're really laying it on so
we understand what's going on here.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Now, I did not know all that backstory,so that's actually really cool to know
that sort of, like, mythology about it.
I told you.
Yeah, and why it ties into certainother aspects of the story.

Chris (51:25):
Well, I think part of it was just like the parentheses Will O Wisp.
That's not helping me at all.
I'm vaguely familiar.
Like, I know it's a spirit of some sort,but it's like they threw that in so that
we would be like, ah, yes, Will O Wisp.

George (51:40):
Yeah.
It is funny for them to be like.
Okay, we need something that everybodyis going to know so that they can
connect this thing to that andthen for them to pick Will O Wisp,
which is like, not that common.

Chris (51:54):
Yes.
So, like you guys said, throughtheir conversation, we figure out
that Kitean is a ghost photographer.
Morioka is a writer about ghosts.
Um, and while they're on thistrain, they see a mysterious man
in black who is wearing a blackleather mask covering his mouth.

George (52:10):
Boy, if I could remember the name of that video game series with the
ghost photographer I bet I could makea really sweet reference right now.
Was it Fatal

Chris (52:18):
Frame?

George (52:18):
Yes, Fatal Frame.

Chris (52:22):
So they're on the train because they're doing a story on a young
couple that claims to have seen aHitodama Will O Wisp in the woods.
They set up a trap for the Hitodama byhanging meat from the trees in the forest.
Later that night, Kitayana wakes,and wouldn't you know it, there's
a dang Hitadama floating around theforest desiccating globs of meat.
So

George (52:42):
This is, this is a showcase effect in the making of.

Chris (52:45):
Yep.
Oh, you got to.
You gotta show how theydeflated that meat.
Yes, and George, you had sentme a message that was saying
that this movie is very gross.
Whenever we get to that point, pleaselet let me know because it could be
10 different points in this movie.

George (53:00):
It wasn't it wasn't quite this, but I will definitely.
Definitely keep you in the loop.
There's a moment where it happens andI go, okay, this is a successful movie
now from this point going forward.

Chris (53:12):
I am grossed out.
Yeah.
Morioka goes into the woods after theHitodama, which unbeknownst to him,
transforms into a worm, lands on hisshoulder, and crawls into his ear.
Hell no.

George (53:25):
That's classic Wilde West behavior, baby.
Tells all this time, you gottawatch out for that earworm.

Brantley (53:32):
It looks so good.
It does!
It's a great practical effect,and then seeing how they did it
in the making of, and like I never

Chris (53:39):
would have guessed that they had two huge armatures, like Exactly.
They were bigger than the worm itself.

Brantley (53:46):
Yeah.
But positioned perfectly soyou don't see them or anything.
It's just like, ah, this is like classicfucking practical effects movie making.
It's awesome.
Yeah.
It was great.
I

George (53:54):
love that the description of the process for basically every effect
was like, we shrank some rubber.
That was how they made everything happen.
And it works.
That's

Chris (54:04):
how you did it back then.
So just as Morioka's earis impregnated by the worm.
They see the mysterious man in blackstanding forebodingly in the woods, but
he quickly disappears into the night.
Back in the city, Morioka is at homeeating dinner with his wife, Michiko, and
he seems to have developed an insatiable

Brantley (54:22):
appetite.
Yeah, I forget exactly what hisline is, but she's, his wife's like,
Oh, you can just eat as much asyou want and not put on any weight.
He says, I have that kind of constitution.
Exactly, and I was just like,I wish, I wish I had that
kind of constitution, baby.

George (54:38):
It's such a weird interaction.
Yeah, because you're like, is thisfucking with his brain or is this just
like their normal relationship forher to be like, here's a compliment?
And he's like, yes, this one has

Chris (54:51):
some choice lines, but I think biotherapy has some really choice lines.
So he goes

Brantley (54:56):
to blow

Chris (54:56):
his nose and Michiko sees a worm quickly dart out
and back into his nostril.
She lets out a gasp, but doesn'tsay anything about it as you do.

George (55:07):
She thought she was making it up.
I'm imagining things.

Brantley (55:10):
But also what if, what a fun photography thing where like they show
like her hands coming, like the POV ofher hands coming out of her face and
coming out of darkness back into it.
I'm like, oh, like, I, there wasa lot of care put into this movie.
I think is what I'm saying.
And you could really tell it wasmade by a seasoned cinematographer.
Because I think a lesser directoror someone who didn't have

(55:31):
that background wouldn't havethought of some of these shots.
And I thought that was just like a realnice Um, touch when I watched it and
then seeing the making of and seeinghe had that background was like, Oh,
that's why he wanted that in there.
So I thought that was fun.

Chris (55:44):
Yeah.
Especially something we'll talkabout later involving a fish tank.
I'm like, this movie hasno right to look that good.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Later that night, Morioka awakensfrom his sumbler to raid the fridge.
He's eating noodles, ham,lettuce, raw meat, the works.

George (56:00):
Very Jennifer's body.
Yes, fridge scene.
Yeah,

Chris (56:04):
we also get Chekhov's raw octopus tentacles because they are in the fridge
on a plate and I was like so you caneat those He doesn't yeah, thankfully

George (56:16):
That's the thing too is like you see it you go.
Oh, yeah, let's fucking go And then that'sthe one thing that they don't deliver
on and you go You pull, you, you danglethis carrot and then you pull it away.

Chris (56:26):
That can't be cheap.
It had to be their intentionthat he was going to do that.
He probably was just like,no, I'm not doing that.

George (56:34):
That's funny.
Hey, that's why you, youneed, uh, old boy up in here.

Chris (56:38):
Yeah.
Michiko wakes up and finds him chowingdown and calls Kitayan to the house
to take a look at her freak of ahusband, who at this point is passed
out in bed with a distended belly.
Kitean is like, you should probablytake him to a hospital, but much
like with the worm in his nose,Michiko just sort of ignores all
of the shit going on around her.

Brantley (56:59):
Yeah, like, if there's one critique I guess that could be
leveled against this film, and Ican't think of any others beyond
this, but her underreaction to herhusband's state here is maybe the one
criticism I'd accept of this movie.
Especially when we justestablished that he has

George (57:16):
a constitution where he will not put on any weight.
Yeah.

Chris (57:19):
And suddenly he's put on 30 pounds.
Exactly.
Kitean leaves, and as Michikoenters the bedroom, Morioka
begins to convulse and vomit.
His mouth splits wide open and he vomitsup a damn ghoulie that starts hopping
around and crawling up the walls.

George (57:35):
And we've officially reached the point where I went, that's pretty gross.
Um, my man, I, so here's the thingalso is I did not realize that it
was a ghoulie at the, at first blush.
When I was watching it, and when Imessaged Chris at first, I thought he
was just throwing up all of his organs.

(57:59):
I was like, that's really fucking intense.
It was still very good and funthat it was this larva that grew
to be a ghoul in their stomach.
Yeah.
Um, but it is perhaps not quite asgross as when I thought that it was
all of his insides becoming outsides.

Brantley (58:15):
And again, great practical effects.
This, this whole sequence was awesome.
This is like the

Chris (58:20):
big, the big set piece to me is like this throwing up scene.
Like that's.
Where they're 12 of their 25 went

Brantley (58:30):
great and good body horror stuff where you see it like under the skin
coming up like the chest and everythingand then out through the mouth with like
the kind of splitting and tearing asit's pushing through the mouth and stuff.
Good, good stuff.
They also do

Chris (58:42):
a day of the dead, like vocal cord pitch up.
Like when, uh, Joe Pallato gets hishead ripped off, they do one of that.

George (58:50):
Check it, you bitch!
So yeah, it's great.
When this guy, when this guy standsup and his little feet, he's a little
hopping around, he is so stinking cute.
He looks like the Rancor mixedwith Al Jolson from Merry Melodies.
I kept waiting for thismotherfucker to sing about the

(59:11):
Muna and the Juna and the Springa.
And I was, there's a moment later on wherelike the wife is like, he's pretty cute.
What if we just don'ttreat him like a monster?
And I was like, I get it.
I fucking get it.

Chris (59:23):
Yeah.
I mean, we're talking aboutfull moon, Charles, man.
My mind is just straight ghoulies.
Like he's a ghoulie.
Um, so after, you know, this ghoulie'scrawling up the walls, the mysterious
man in black comes into the Moriokahousehold, throws a pillow at the
little ghoul, and puts it in a cage.
He explains to Morioka that the reasonhe was in the woods that night is because

(59:46):
he too heard about the Hitadama, butthat Morioka had gotten there before him.
He also explains that the Gakidama arelike the larvae of ghouls, and sometimes
appear in mountain areas like that.
They possess humans and growto be ghouls in their stomachs.
He takes off his mask toreveal a scar across his face.
It seems that he too, at one point,had been the victim of a Gakudama.

(01:00:09):
So, he doesn't even have to ask if youwant to know how he got those scars.
He leaves the Morioka householdand notices the Gakidama
isn't making any noise.
He opens the cage to check the Gakidama.
Surprise!
It's still alive.
It attacks him and runs away.
Classic mistake.
I love this.

George (01:00:29):
That's a classic fucking bait and switch.
I mean, my guy's operatingon another level.

Chris (01:00:35):
It's hilarious because this is a 60 minute movie, so the time
between that is like 15 seconds.
He's like, I wonder if it's still alive.
15 seconds later, like he hasn't given ittime to recover from that pillow beating.
He just gave it

Brantley (01:00:49):
and this is again, uh, you know, they, they show in the making
of feature at all the like, uh, youknow, different ways that they like,
uh, handled and master the puppet.
And this one was great becausethey had these like attacking
arms and hands that would likecome at his face and everything.
Uh, which was a lot of, yeah.
A lot of fun, and, uh, made it much more,uh, lifelike than certainly some of the

(01:01:09):
shots we saw of it earlier in the movie.
Like, when it climbed up the wall,it was a little like, Uh, okay.
But this, uh, was a lotmore animated, let's say.

Chris (01:01:18):
He was just born.
You gotta give him a break.
He doesn't have the That's

true.
You know what?
He He doesn't have the motor skills.
You're right.
What am I saying?
Yeah.
I would love to see you try and climbup the wall as a child, Brantley.

George (01:01:28):
Yeah.
I would love to see it.

You know what?
You know what?
I retract my statement.
I can't believe I was that, um, you know,uh, what's the word I'm looking for?
Offensive in my commentabout this newborn.
Insensitive at the very least.
Thank you.
That's what I was thinking of.
Thank you.
You're right.
I apologize.
I apologize, Kakitama.

Chris (01:01:45):
Yeah.
So after the Gakudama escapes, atsome undisclosed later time in the
future, Morioka is back to normaland Michiko wonders what that
mysterious man did with the Gakudama.
She says that, kind of like a baby,to which Morioka replies, listen,
it was completely different from ababy, I just, you know, gave birth

(01:02:07):
to it, but it was nothing like ababy, it was a ghoulish monster.

George (01:02:12):
That's right.

Chris (01:02:12):
Morioka has lunch with Kiteyan who, himself, has suspiciously developed
an insatiable appetite, and Moriokabecomes convinced that Kiteyan now
has a Gakidama growing in his stomach.
Hmm.

George (01:02:27):
Huh.
And actually, now that you mention that.

Chris (01:02:30):
Really makes you think.

George (01:02:32):
Yeah.
It does.
Much to consider.
Much to consider.

Chris (01:02:34):
Mm hmm.
So, now, you know, thinking that Kiteanhas a Gakidama in his stomach, for
reasons that are unclear to us at thismoment, but will become very clear
to us very shortly, he follows Kiteanto his house and he's on a stakeout.
He's watching.
Kitean just Carry bags andbags of groceries up flights

(01:02:56):
of stairs to his apartment.
But Morioka is joined on his stakeoutby the mysterious man in black
who comes out of nowhere and says,You finally found the best dish.
Everyone becomes like that.
Those who are possessed by ghoulscling to the idea that they
want to eat ghouls themselves.
This is real starvation.
No starving is more luxurious than this.

George (01:03:18):
Great line, great line, and, uh, there is something really bizarre
about this idea of, like, having to reingest the thing that, it's like, uh,
the, it's like reverse Zeus, right?
Where, like, uh, it's just verystrange, and it, like, Makes me a little

(01:03:39):
uncomfortable in a way that is a fiction

horror.
Mm hmm.
Well, and now I wonder, like,does this tie into some sort
of Japanese folklore as well?
Or, like, what are they trying to saywith wanting to eat these things that
you've just birthed, essentially?
Like, yeah, I'm very curious, kind of,what the philosophy is behind that.

George (01:03:59):
Uh, I think there's probably nothing to read into
being addicted to eating babies.
Yeah.

Chris (01:04:04):
I will say that As far as I was able to tell, Gakidama is something
that is completely made up for thismovie and has no basis, at least
under that name, in Japanese folklore.
Hitodama, as we talked about earlier,is a real thing, but even if you use
the Japanese characters for Gakidamaenclosed in quotes in Google, the only

(01:04:26):
thing that comes up is this movie, soI have to assume that they made it up.
But yeah, as I was sayingearlier, I did really consider
bringing this to George's podcast.
Uh, the, the two that I did bringwhere it's alive and it's alive three
do with that what you will, becauseI feel like there is something here,
like there, it is going for something,but it was very hard for me to parse

(01:04:50):
or articulate what exactly that is.
So I was like, yeah.
Yeah.
Moving on.

George (01:04:56):
Yeah.
It, it, it's effective horror, no doubt.
And certainly if it had been the pick,I think I would've had a wonderful
time sort of getting to extol thevirtues of it and really like lean
into the, the fun little moments of it.
But as far as having a coherentmessage and then, you know, part
of what I really liked about our,it's a Live three episode was like.

(01:05:19):
So much of it is subconscious forLarry on top of his own intentional
message and like reading it reading evenbeyond the first layer of messaging.
I think is really satisfying forthat movie because it has so much
fertile ground to bear this fruit.
And this has a lot of really funsurface stuff and then, like you

(01:05:42):
said, sort of digging past thatis a little bit more difficult.
Um, and part part of that is just becausethere is a language barrier, right?
There are moments where it's.
You know, people are talking on screen andthen there's like 1 sentence that shows up
and you're like, wait, that can't possiblybe all that was said, like, right?
Um, so, yeah, I just think that there is.

(01:06:06):
There is a lot of fun stuff here, butI think you made the right choice.

Chris (01:06:09):
Yeah, I do think it is ambitious in a way that biotherapy probably isn't.

Yeah.
Okay.
Um.
Well.
I was just, I mean, I wasthinking like, I mean, the very,
like, I agree with you, George.
Like, it is kind of like surfacy andthe, the surface level, I guess, like,
I don't You know, text of this wouldbe like, is it like a fear of, of, of
becoming a parent or a fear of havinga child and doing some sort of harm to
that child and a fear of, or, you know,not wanting to become a parent because

(01:06:38):
you still want to be consuming as muchas you can without having a child, right?
Maybe that's where that eating comes in.
Interesting.
But yeah, beyond that, I'm justlike, Oh, that is good, Brantley.
what does that mean?
Right?
Like, and I think you're right, it'sa language barrier, not knowing some
of the, you know, folklore, you know,within Japan, that sort of thing.
Hard to judge the nuance.

(01:06:59):
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.

Chris (01:07:01):
So, George, you can do one last spotlight episode where Brantley
comes and talks about Gakidama.

George (01:07:07):
I mean, that was actually really good.
I like that idea of it being likeUm, this, because I, so many people
that I know who have children arelike, oh, I do miss my old life.
And, like, that, that feeling of,like, wanting to still be able
to go out and consume and havethe life that you had while also.

(01:07:29):
You know, having this ghoul thatyou need to raise now, um, is,
uh, yeah, that's interesting.
I like that a lot.
That

Chris (01:07:36):
is very interesting.
I will have to think on that some more.
Oh, thank you.
Watch this 10 more times.

George (01:07:43):
There you go.
Once on each format, just to make sure.
Yeah.

Chris (01:07:47):
Um, actually, what was I going to say?
Oh, yeah.
Were you guys just likecompletely taken aback by this?
Like conversation of like, Oh, of courseyou want to eat it was that where you
thought this was going to go at all.

George (01:08:01):
Well, it was, but only because I thought, wow, that looks delicious.
No, of course it's fucking insane.

Yeah, this movie had so many surprises.
I think that's I mean, besides likethe, the, the beauty of these like
practical effects, it's just like.
Where the hell is this going?
What is this?
Like there was all these like, likecurve balls that I was not expecting.
And so it kept me more, I guess,on the edge of my seat and more
like, you know, really into it.
So yeah, no, this is, uh, I loved it.

(01:08:33):
There's a lot to be said about coherence

George (01:08:35):
and, and like, Uh, cohesion and, and having a plot that you
can easily follow and, and sort ofpredict what's going to happen so that
you're satisfied when that happens.
But there's also something to be saidabout a movie that is so willing to
just disregard those rules that itbecomes like, oh, now they're obsessed
with eating it or, you know, one of myfavorite movies is extra and there's

(01:08:58):
a moment in it where suddenly a ladyis giving birth to a full grown adult.
And

Chris (01:09:03):
we get the reverse of that here.

George (01:09:05):
Yeah, exactly.
And it, look, both of these movies,like, it just shocks me in a way
that it's like, I did, I did not,I did not expect to see that.
And it really, uh, you know, I thinkthat there's certainly something
to be said for that as well.

Chris (01:09:21):
Yeah.
So after this conversation,Morioka says that he'd rather
die than eat such a thing.
But the mysterious man in blackreveals that he just happens
to have a Gakudan in a cage andMorioka has done a 180 on his head.

George (01:09:36):
It's so funny.
He's like, I will never mean whilehe's fully turned into a cartoon.
He's licking his lips and doinga full three 60 around them.
Yeah.

Chris (01:09:46):
The two men go to the man in black's house where they
share a romantic candlelit dinner

George (01:09:52):
and eat together.
It is beautiful.
What a cute date.
So this is

Chris (01:09:57):
one of those things like it is sort of a hallmark of low
budget cinema to have these scenes.
That may as well not be filmed on a set inany way, because the lighting is such that
the background is just completely black.
It's a marker of low budget films,but it is an aesthetic that I really
like, and I think it works here.
I thought they just

George (01:10:18):
lived in the void.
Yeah.
But look, when you're busy spending allyour time chasing Gakidamas, you don't
give a shit about where you live, right?
So the void will do.
I

mean, you're on the road so much, I mean, you can't
be traveling half the year, atleast, if not more, to find him.
It's just a place to lay your hat.
The action

Chris (01:10:36):
is the juice.

He's sleeping as much on trains as in his own bed,
you know, who cares where it is.
That's right.

Chris (01:10:42):
Morioka and Michiko buy some pet birds, and Michiko does some
weird jazzercise on their porch.
A storm is coming in.
Uh,

George (01:10:50):
okay.
I didn't think it wasweird at all, actually.
I thought it was really cool,and I'm gonna start incorporating
that into my daily regimen.

Chris (01:10:56):
Okay.
Morioka and Michiko buy some petbirds, and Michiko does some completely
normal jazzercise on their porch.
Yeah, yeah!
A storm is coming in, and Michikocollects the laundry from the clothesline
outside, but as she returns to theback door of the house, she finds
that the pet birds that they had justpurchased have already been killed.

(01:11:18):
No!
I think these are possibly the worstpet owners I've seen in any movie.
Not great.
The house is a wreck, and she justknows that there's a ghoulie afoot.
She searches for the Gakidama,which reveals itself by jumping
on her head and biting her scalp.
She throws it to the ground,but the Gakidama persists and
goes for her throat once again.

(01:11:39):
This time, she throws it to the groundand smashes a giant fish tank on it.
The little demon will not be persuaded.

George (01:11:46):
If you try and reason with the monster, you will get your
skull and neck area chowed on.
It's that simple.

Chris (01:11:53):
Yeah, and so, this was another part that they show in the making of.
It was kind of the only part thatwasn't like a special effect.
They're just showing like,cinematographically, how are
we going to get this fish tank.
And I don't remember exactly what it was,but they, cause this was a part where
the translation was a little bit offwhen they're talking about the, like the
shutter speed or something and like howthey're setting up three cameras to give

(01:12:17):
it some sort of illusion of something.
But I think

George (01:12:21):
they just pushed it and said, fingers crossed.

Yeah, I think I think they did say they have the film going
through four times the normal speed.
So it sounds like about 96 framesper second instead of 24, um, to
just get that slow motion effect.
Yeah, but they probably justcranked up the shutter to just to
be able to You know, capture theaction with less blur and all that.

Chris (01:12:42):
And I was shocked that they had three cameras.
First of all, it does look really good.
There's something to be said aboutslow motion shot on film like that.

George (01:12:53):
Oh yeah.
That's good.

Chris (01:12:54):
Um, so after she throws it to the ground or crushes it with a fish tank,
rather, Uh, it crawls under her dress,but she's able to grab it and hurl it at
the TV, and even though this is her thirdtry of just throwing it at something,
she's just like, ah, we're good.
Third time's the charm.

Third time is the charm.
The television that isturned off explodes when

Chris (01:13:18):
he slams into it.
So she goes to the bathroom to get out ofthose bloody clothes and take a shower.
But after she does the ghoul claws,a hole in the bathroom door and
pokes his head through, here's Gey.

George (01:13:31):
This guy is so rascally and cute.
Yeah, that's a really great moment.
When he is, there's in the fight, there'slike a head on shot where he's like
running . That's very cute as well.
Yes.
They really, they do a lot tomake you, uh, go, he's not so bad.
Yeah.

Chris (01:13:49):
Yeah.
And again, through the door, shesprays it with the shower head and
just is like, that's good enough.
I killed it.
I don't know why she thinks that, butit comes back and then she drowns it
in the bathtub, falls to the floorand makes her way to the bedroom.
Finally, the ordeal is over.

George (01:14:08):
At least she took less attempts to learn each time.

Yes.
Besides the aquarium falling onhim, was there any, uh, did I miss
something about why it disliked water?
Because when she sprays him through thedoor, he sort of like hisses in pain
and like runs away and I'm like, didI miss something about them and water?
Like in general?
I don't know.
I don't think he missed

Chris (01:14:31):
anything.

I think it was hot water.
Oh, that's true.
Oh yeah, you're right.
It could have been really hot.
You're right.
You're right.
That must've been Come on guys, giveGakidama the benefit of the doubt.

George (01:14:40):
You think they would put something in that didn't make sense?
Get real.
Get real.
You're right.
Flawless.
Good job.
You're right.

Chris (01:14:46):
You're just right.
But, you know, even though she thinks theordeal is over, surprise, the Gakidama
comes back and it crawls into Michiko,and I will just let the audience fill
in the blanks on what I mean by that.
So she then writhes in either agonyor pleasure on the bedroom floor.
Her noises do not make it clear atall which one it's supposed to be.

This is the one area of the film that made me uncomfortable.
Um, not just this part where the Gakidamasucceeds, but even earlier when she's
in the fight and he's under her dress,obviously trying to get there too.
It's just sort of like, okay, thisis like the imagery of the film
that's a little Squiggy for me.
I'm like, I don't know how much.
Yeah.

(01:15:31):
Yeah.
This is the one other thing.
I agree.
Let's

George (01:15:35):
apply Brantley's theory to this.
Now, is this saying that childreninherently understand the agony
of life and go, I did not ask tobe born and are trying to, uh,
give the parent what they want?
And, and, uh, return to,from whence they came?

(01:15:56):
Maybe.
Uh, you know, or, or,

or, you know, Perhaps they

George (01:16:00):
feel the bitterness, they feel that resentment, and, and
they hold it against the parentand say, Uh, yes, I wish I could!

Chris (01:16:06):
Yeah, and they're like, Go back to the void.
What you wanted was to want a kid,so I will give you that, cause you
will eternally be pregnant with me.
Wow.

Well, and she definitely does seem to very much want a child, um, as
was discussed in some of their previous,uh, conversations where she mentioned
she's unable to, uh, and he seemed likethe one who was give her, you know, could
take her, leave it wasn't as interested.
And, and so I do wonder if, youknow, when we, I don't want to spoil

(01:16:36):
anything, we'll get to the end there,but she seems very content at the
end to have, uh, this kakidama insideof her to be pregnant, so to speak.

George (01:16:44):
Yeah.
Well, her mothering instinct is alsocertainly manifesting in other ways
with all the pets and everything.
Absolutely.

Chris (01:16:51):
So that is one thing that I really, like, hadn't picked up on
because I didn't really read about thelore of this, is that she does mention,
like, not being able to have a child.
I feel like this was a chance for themto like really be able to tie something
together because they're also sayinglike, you know, Hito Damas usually show
up like three days after someone dies.

(01:17:11):
So knowing that I was wondering, like,did they try to have a child and fail?
And this is that the soul of thatchild that has returned and is.

That's an interesting way to look at it.
Yeah, it's all here.
People, this is deeper than we thought.
This is, this is really good.
All right.
I'm

George (01:17:28):
bringing, I'm bringing the podcast back.
Let's do

it.
Oh, I just wanted to say, you'retalking about wanting to go
back to the womb and everything.
Isn't there like womb therapy that, uh,where like you, you sort of like our,
Either wrapped really tight in somethingor something that's supposed to simulate
being back in the womb or something.
I've definitely

Chris (01:17:46):
seen that on one of those Netflix dating shows that someone makes me watch.

George (01:17:52):
Sure, Chris.
Netflix dating show.
Whatever you say, brother.
I can't remember

Chris (01:17:56):
the name of it, but I always call it, like, Fuck Island because
it's just like Oh, that's Boy Island?
Or is that it?
No, it's um Love Island?
It might just be called Love Island.
Okay.
It's just I think

George (01:18:07):
that is that is a show that exists.
They have a,

Chris (01:18:10):
like, Alexa thing called Lana, where they're like No, I call
it Don't Fuck Island, because that'sthe whole premise of the show.
It's like, if you guys, like Oh, resist.
Make out or have sex, like, theprize of money becomes less.
Oh.

George (01:18:24):
Can you resist your Oh yeah, they did do,

Chris (01:18:26):
like, they went into these boxes lined with, like, red velvet.
It's like, I'm back in the womb.
Oh.
So, it's a thing.
How many people actually do it?
No clue.

George (01:18:37):
Well, apparently, Gakidama's trying to get up in there.

Chris (01:18:40):
Yeah.
So, while he is trying to get up in there.
Morioka is at Kitayan's house,standing over him, waiting for
Kitayan's Gakidama to be born.
And you guessed it, the mysteriousman in black shows up yet again.
But Morioka doesn't want to sharethe Gakidama with the mysterious man.
Please leave, he says.

(01:19:00):
I'll take care of him afterwardand teach him how to cook too.
I'll teach him everything,because he's my best friend.
Morioka and the Mysterious Man in Blackexchange words, but the Mysterious
Man refuses to leave, and Moriokaattacks him with a knife, but he's
not a very good fighter, and hegets his ass kicked pretty easily.

George (01:19:20):
Okay, so, uh, well, I also get angry when my friend has a kid, and I
wish that he could come out and hangout with us, and so I'm gonna eat the
baby, and teach him how to eat the baby.
There's a

lot here.
It's all lined up.
Yeah, it's all, this is,this is a sound film.
This narrative and all ofthese themes are spot on.
Airtight.

George (01:19:45):
Yeah.
I guess.
Yeah, I think so.

Chris (01:19:48):
So Morioka returns home to find his living room in absolute ruins.
He runs upstairs to check on Michiko.
Welcome home, she says.
I'm pregnant.
She asks Morioka to put hisear to her belly so that he can
listen to the baby, but he hearsthe slurping of a dang Gakidama.
Cue some goofy music.
Freeze frame on a closeup of the Gakidama's face.

(01:20:12):
Credit Gakidama.

Oh yeah.
Great credits.
That final song choice was, felta little out of character for the
rest of the film in that ending.

George (01:20:22):
I would have liked a stand by me style epilogue about
what the Gakidama got up to.
Oh

yeah.
Frankly.
Yeah.
That would have been fun.
Where did he go to college?
Did he get deferred from the draft?
Did he eat the pie contest?

George (01:20:35):
And it like had all the fuckin stuff that made him sick in it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Who knows, right?
Do you see that bodythat he made, perhaps?

Chris (01:20:45):
So which one of these did you guys watch first?
Did you both do biotherapy first?

George (01:20:51):
No, I did Gakudama first.
Okay,

Chris (01:20:53):
so then George, what was your first reaction to like, this whole V
cinema thing after watching Gakudama?

George (01:21:00):
Um, I guess I was like, it was kind of what I expected in terms of like,
certainly felt low budget, you could seethat it was, but there was also these
moments that sort of punched above theirweight class and you could tell where
the budget and sort of value went into.
Uh, what they felt was important wasvery visible on the screen, I thought.
Uh, so it felt like a good example,like a good gateway into the genre

(01:21:26):
in that way, because I felt like itwas pretty clear in demonstrating
what the values of the subgenre were.

Chris (01:21:32):
Interesting.

Completely agree.
And I think this looks really good fora low budget film, not just like effects
wise, but just like the, the, the camerawork and the shots are really good.
And the lighting is really well done.
Um, you know, we mentioned that kindof void room, you know, where they have
their dinner, but, but like, you know, thecandle light still looks good in there,
you know, and then just a lot of beautifulshots and just really well composed, um,

(01:21:56):
you know, visuals for the film in general.
I thought we're, we're really well done.

Chris (01:22:01):
Yeah.
I mean, I would.
To your point, I would say thatthat almost makes this kind of a bad
exemplar of, of the, of the genreas we'll talk, like, I, I think it's
probably like the quote unquote bestby objective measures that I've seen.
I feel like it's the closestto a movie because if you think

(01:22:22):
this is confusing, I really,

George (01:22:23):
I really have to defend biotherapy here.
I

Chris (01:22:28):
mean, especially like I'm thinking mainly in terms of plot,
like if you think this one is weird.
I wouldn't even say biotherapyis like, that's not even close to
how incomprehensible these get.
It's

George (01:22:40):
so straightforward.

Chris (01:22:42):
Yeah.
But I, and to Brantley's point, I thinkthis looks way better than probably every
other V cinema age of confusion movieI've seen with maybe the exception of one
called Cyclops, which makes absolutelyno sense narratively, which is why I did
not choose it as one that you guys would

George (01:23:02):
watch.
Uh, even, even outside the, youknow, perhaps slightly jokingly
exaggerated defense of biotherapy,it is obvious how much better this
one did look than that one does.
Uh, and yeah, I think that thatdoes just come from having that
veteran of, you know, 20 yearsor whatever behind the camera.
And so while I think, you know, you're,you're, Your, your, your point about it

(01:23:25):
being like maybe a bad example of thegenre because it looks so much better,
but I think it is still good in like.
The in terms of like, setting thestandard of like, what they're going for,
like, what they're shooting to achieve.
Um, you know, maybe it's not the bestexample to like, start with the best if
you're saying that this is the best thatit gets that maybe it's not quite the best

(01:23:47):
thing to jump in with and then everythingelse is a disappointment afterward.
But hey, for some of us.
You know, it is notnecessarily the best one.
So, uh, who knows?
Yeah.
Who knows?
I

Chris (01:23:58):
mean, it kind of depends on like what it is.
People, like if you watch this andwhat it is you like about it, if
the other ones are going to be adisappointment, because if you're like,
Hey, I like those practical effects.
That's a through line in, like, allof this, like, very small group of
movies that we're talking about.
If you wanted to have, like, some ofthe thematic richness of Kakedama,

(01:24:21):
you'll be sorely disappointed.
And if you wanted to have, like, theaesthetic Merits of this, you will usually
be disappointed too, I would say, butif you want a short, weird, practical
effects heavy movie that you can justlike throw on and take it as it comes,
like, yeah, then with those regards,I would say that this is kind of, like

(01:24:44):
you said, a good introduction to it.

George (01:24:47):
That makes sense to me because I certainly recognized and enjoyed
the themes and subtext of the, thebaby stuff, but I don't know if it was
what I was coming to the movie for.

Yeah, and I think everything you also just said about it kind of
just proves, you know, what a greatcraftsman can do in this medium, you
know, despite a low budget, if youhave the technical know how, you can
make that really low budget film look.
5 grades higher in terms ofbudget than it probably was.
And, uh, yeah, this looksgreat in that regard.

Chris (01:25:21):
Yeah, it's a good one.
It's a, I would say it'seasily my favorite V cinema
film that I've seen so far.
But, uh, any, any final thoughts?
Oh yeah.
Awesome.
I'm glad I could do that for you.
In terms of the

ones I've seen.

Chris (01:25:35):
Yeah.

George (01:25:37):
Uh, I think you'll want to gawk, Idama, at this one, folks, because
it is a fun movie, and check it out.

Agreed.
I can't make any better of a pun thanthat, so I will have nothing else to
add, but yes, please check it out.
It was a lot of fun.

Chris (01:25:54):
It's 54 minutes long.
If you like weird stuff like this,there's no reason not to watch it.

It's a Gakidama long, so there you go.
Yes.
And then you have 30 minute,30 minute making of feature.

George (01:26:07):
Yes.
That you have to translate yourself.

Chris (01:26:10):
Yeah.
All right.
Well, yeah, Gakidama.
I think that's, that's that.

Absolutely.
I mean, I feel like I could die andgo to heaven if I made a movie as fun
and entertaining as either of these.
So.
Hell yeah.
Not above it at all.

Chris (01:26:25):
Yeah.
So.
Biotherapy.
Biotherapy.
Our second film.
It was released in 1986, producedby Nikatsu, which is one of the
major production companies in Japan.
It was directed by Akihiro Kashima,who did not direct any other films,
although he did direct and serve as ADon a lot of television shows in Japan.

George (01:26:47):
Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.
Except for this movie.
Yeah, except

Chris (01:26:52):
for biotherapy.
He does have, uh, one othercredit on Letterboxd, but it is
an episode of a TV show and ithas been logged by zero people.
So when I looked that up, you betterbelieve I searched that out and I'm
like, I'm going to, I'm going totry to buy that and translate it.
So I'm going to be the one, I'm going tobe the one, I mean, Jet Li, there you go.

(01:27:18):
And same situation with the cast, likeyou wouldn't know them as an American, uh,
because You know, it alternates betweenI've only been in biotherapy or I've been
in a hundred things and somehow biotherapyis the most popular thing I've been in.
Uh, so

George (01:27:36):
I actually know them, but probably Brantley wouldn't.

Guilty.
Sorry.
I didn't recognize any.
I apologize.
They're really, I mean, I don't

Chris (01:27:45):
have any background on it other than that, because they're.
They're just, it just doesn't,it's not out there, although It's

George (01:27:53):
not out there.
Hey, this is what I wastalking about before, right?
You know, the informationis simply not there.
And so were I to be interestedin finding the behind the scenes
information on biotherapy, how theymade my favorite V cinema movie.
Yeah.
Unfortunately, I simply cannot.

Chris (01:28:09):
Well, one of the footnotes in Tom Meza's dissertation is about a book.
I can't remember the nameoff the top of my head.
I did order it after reading that,but he was like, it was basically
some, some book released inlike the mid to later eighties.
That was like trying to form a canonof like the quintessential V cinema.
And in this footnote, he's like, well,they didn't mention this movie, but they

(01:28:31):
did mention like some super obscure ageof confusion movie called biotherapy.
And I think they were right to do it.
Because, it is very quintessentialAge of Confusion V cinema.
Mm hmm.
So, this film opens with a shot of somegentle ocean waves hitting the shore
before we dissolve to a shot of a starrynight sky, a car drives down a dark

(01:28:55):
secluded road, there's a flash of light.
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
Go ahead.

George (01:28:59):
You're going so fast.
We have to, we have to appreciate thatthis opening sequence Is setting us up.
We don't even know that it's goingto be setting up the importance
of the ocean in this plot.
In the stars.
In the stars, yeah.
And, and, this, that'sfucking cinema, baby!

Chris (01:29:21):
The driver of the car, Date, played by Hirohisa Nakata,
who is best known for his turn asHelicopter Onlooker in Godzilla vs.
Biollante, nearly losescontrol of the car.
Haha.
He looks up and sees a bunchof shooting stars and says, Dr.
Hirose called me out here.
I wonder if this is related to that.

(01:29:41):
We then cut to Dr.
Hirose's lab.
He holds up two large vials sideby side, one clear and one red,
and he says, Just as I thought.
GT Medicine.
Its color is affected by shooting stars.

George (01:29:56):
Oh, classic.
Tale as old as time.
Um, before we get too far away fromthis, I did just want to say I had
a very real moment of when you saidthat his other credit was like, uh,
Helicopter Onlooker in Godzilla vs.
Biohazard.
I was like, I wish that was me.
Like, that's just like the perfect amountof involvement in a Godzilla movie is
to be like, yeah, I was fucking there.

(01:30:17):
I watched him destroy some shit.
I was the Helicopter Onlooker.
That sounds fucking badass, andI'm jealous of him, for sure.
Nice.
Ha ha ha ha.
But yeah, this,

Chris (01:30:26):
um.
You could do a lot worsethan versus Biolante.
Yeah, yeah.

That's right.
That's absolutely right.
And I was just gonna say, this is probablymy favorite line of the whole movie.
And what a way to, like, get us intoit, because I was just like, Oh, I know
the type of movie I'm on board for.
Okay, so.
That was

George (01:30:42):
the only thing I wanted to say, is that this very much feels like, Uh,
Resident Evil to me that this feels likethe kind of nonsensical, aha, the G virus
is ready to infect the water supply.
Like, I think it is.
It does let you know whatkind of movie you're in for.

(01:31:03):
And also, I think.
Whether they intend this or not thelevel of silliness to sort of like
prepare yourself for and You know Ithink that approaching it like Resident
Evil I've really helped this moviesing for me in terms of like it being
this silly Scientist virus plot andeverything that is getting out of control.

Chris (01:31:26):
Okay, so two things on this when When we're talking about the beginning
of Gakidama, I was talking about theimpenetrable nature of V cinema and
much to my dismay, neither of youreally agreed because you were both
very familiar with Will O Wisps, butdid that come across at all at this one
where he's just like, ah, GT medicine,the color is affected by shooting stars.

George (01:31:50):
I think yes, it, it, but it's so far in that direction that it became,
it became like, I don't, I don't care.
Okay.
I get it.
I don't care.
Like, I don't need to know what gg viruses or whatever gt medicine,
because I will never know.
I'll never know what that is.
So I just give up the greed.
Yeah,

Chris (01:32:11):
absolutely.
The 2nd thing was that.
You're mentioning like resident evil.
I think to me, it's sort of a hallmarkof a lot of Japanese media, particularly
anime, where I like at the front, theyjust have like this huge plot dump of
like all of these very specific terms.
I'm thinking of Jenna cyber inparticular, where like, you know, the

(01:32:32):
Vajra and the chakra and all this.
This doesn't have that, butthey do do that in like the
last five minutes of the movie.
So yeah, it's there.
It's

George (01:32:40):
there.
Also Neon Genesis Evangelion andall the shit about like human
ascension and all that stuff.
They're like, all right, here it is.
Learn it now because it's goingto be referenced constantly
without explanation again.

Chris (01:32:56):
Yup.
So, Hirose's in his lab, a brightlight flashes, and suddenly, Hirose
is confronted by a David Lynchelephant man looking motherfucker.
And I think, George, you may have comparedthis to some sort of Giallo, but for
some reason I didn't draw that comparisoneven though both of the villains in

(01:33:16):
these movies are just guys and likeBlack trench coats wearing black gloves.
But I was like, yeah, this dudelooks exactly like goth elephant man.

George (01:33:29):
He's he's got a look, no doubt.
Um, and who says that the elephantman couldn't be in a Giala
movie, but this guy, unlike the

Chris (01:33:39):
dialogue, yes, this villain, unlike the elephant man, just wanting
to be human or viewed as human.
This guy just wants theGT medicine, but Dr.
Hirose smashes the vial on the ground.
The villain chokes Dr.
Hirose and gouges out his right eye, whichhe sets on a table before walking out
of the lab, and we get our title card.

(01:34:01):
Biotherapy.

George (01:34:02):
Now, there was a moment in Kakidama where I said, oh, this is
gross, and it sort of cemented the momentwhere the movie became a success to me.
And.
It happens much earlier for biotherapy,is all I can say, because this moment,
he starts to gouge the eye out.

(01:34:23):
And at first, I like,kind of wrote it off.
And I was like, joking to myself that itwas like, oh, the most hard eye of all
time, based on the amount of effort it wastaking him to like, stick his thumb in.
But then, suddenly the guy like,wakes up in the middle, and he
starts screaming, and this guy getslike a grip on the whole eyeball.
And he starts, like, rippingit out for real, and it just

(01:34:45):
escalates a lot very quickly.
Like, it seems intensely silly in away that, and it, you know, also even
tying in with the fact that you'relike, Oh, this medicine changes color
because the shooting stars came by.
It's all very silly.
Also, the goofy, like, overlit natureof those daytime scenes and stuff.

(01:35:05):
The way that it sort of pivots andoscillates between the, that overlit
TV movie feeling, and then suddenlythese bursts of very real violence,
sort of, with a little, a littlespice of surreal sci fi nonsense, um,
it's just all really, like, happeningin this moment in a way that really

(01:35:27):
works for me very early in the movie.
He's like, fucking pulling his tongue out.
It's great.
It's gross.
It's nasty.

Chris (01:35:35):
Yeah.
One of the things that it took severalviewings of this for me to like really
connect, I was just like, this is like,like a Showa era, like what if invasion
of Astro monster was really fucked up?
It's kind of like the tone of the movie,like it's, it's, it's couched in sort of

(01:35:55):
a similar, like weird Showa era sci fi.
That's really hard to like put words to.
It's very odd.
It

George (01:36:03):
also, it also has, uh, you know, I mentioned Tetsuo earlier, and it has
sort of a similar industrial score to me,um, in a way that I was like, oh, okay,

Chris (01:36:15):
all

George (01:36:16):
right.
I look forward to it.

Chris (01:36:21):
After this, we go to another lab where two scientists, and also
just as an aside, it was very hard totake notes on both of these movies,
particularly biotherapy, because yougo three quarters of the way into the
movie before they say character names.
So I then had to like,

George (01:36:39):
I can't tell you how many times for a movie I've had to be just
like calling them like the man or thewoman or like they and then go back and
start just like sprinkling in the name.
Once I finally fucking learn it,so I'm like, keep it up, lady

Chris (01:36:52):
scientist replace.
So we go to another lab wheretwo to two scientists are doing
nondescript research on fish.
One of the scientists, abespectacled young lady named Ms.
Shozawa, is typing furiously on thecomputer when suddenly something pops up.
Report on GT Medicine.

(01:37:13):
If I had a nickel for everytime top secret information just
randomly presented itself to meon my computer, I'd be a rich man.

My 1986 computer.

George (01:37:23):
Yes.
When you've got the clearance to workon GT Medicine, And, uh, you're in
the same labs that they're workedon, you know, this sort of sensitive
information can present itself and, uh,they just have to trust the, that these
people will handle it appropriately.

Chris (01:37:42):
Fair enough.
We then see a scene of Date pouringGT medicine into a fish tank, then
we immediately cut to Which is what

George (01:37:49):
I would call handling medicine appropriately and very responsibly.
So that's exactly whatI was talking about.

Chris (01:37:55):
Yeah, it's also like, night time when he's doing that for some reason.
Time is a little weirdin this one because Dr.
Hirose, who we saw die in the firstscene of the movie, is At this point
in the movie shown berating the team ofscientists, asking them which of them used
the GT medicine without his permission.
Date fesses up to using the GT medicine.

(01:38:17):
He says he did it because he's theone that started the GT medicine
research in the first place.
He accuses Dr.
Hirose of stealing his work, and Hirosesays, I look down on you with disgust.
We are not teacher and student anymore.
Which is basically the Japanesescientist version of, I have no son.

George (01:38:35):
Yeah, it's pretty great.
It also happens in, um, Uh,ghosts, uh, spooky encounter.
It happens a spooky encounter when these,the guy is like, Oh, we're going to be
evil priests now and murder this guy.
And, and the junior priestis like, I don't, I'm not so
sure about murdering this guy.
And the guy's like,you're no brother of mine.

(01:38:57):
Get out of here, priest.

Chris (01:38:59):
Yeah, I think the, I look down on you and disgust is probably my, my
favorite line from these two movies.

George (01:39:06):
Top notch, top notch.

Chris (01:39:07):
Mm hmm.
Date leaves, taking anotherscientist, Maeda, with him.
Mr.
Kanabara and Ms.
Shizawa are the tworemaining scientists on Dr.
Hirose's team, and they find outvia a blurry computer screen that
is only partially in frame that theGT Medicine liquid allows animals to

(01:39:28):
grow ten times faster than normal.
The light goes out for a split second,and Mishuzawa freaks the fuck out,
but it's soon revealed that the lightswere just a serious prank pulled by Mr.
Kanabara's girlfriend, Mayumi Tachibana.
The two argue outside Oh,

George (01:39:46):
wow.
I love it, look, this is aclassic jumpscare fake out,
staple of horror movies.
They're hittin the hallmarks, baby.
It happens

Chris (01:39:56):
so quickly, though.
All of that, the prestige, theturn, and the reveal, all happen
within about three seconds.

George (01:40:07):
Yeah, it's a 30 minute movie, brother.
They've got to fucking move.

Chris (01:40:13):
So as those two, uh, Mr.
Kanibara and Mayumi arearguing outside, Ms.
Shiozawa is alone in the lab and shereceives a call from Maeda saying that Dr.
Hirose has been murdered.
Just then, Mishizawa is attacked bythe very same figure who killed Dr.
Hirose.
Where is the GT medicine,he asks her three times.

(01:40:34):
And guys, how would youdescribe this villain's voice?

George (01:40:37):
Uh, very cool and intimidating, probably would be
my number one description of it.

Yeah, I can't think of a better way to describe it.
Definitely not,

George (01:40:47):
definitely not warbly and heavily modulated in a way that
is very silly and makes me laugh.

Yeah, no way, no, exactly, yeah, very scary and intimidating,
that's how I would describe it too.
Yeah, gravelly.
So, have

Chris (01:41:00):
either of you seen Bloodbeat?

George (01:41:03):
Oh, I think so.
It's like the movieswith blood in the title.
It gets hard to differentiate.
It's a regional

Chris (01:41:09):
Wisconsin horror movie from sometime in the mid eighties.
That's about like a possessedsuit of Samurai armor.

George (01:41:16):
Is that a Bill Rubane?
I don't think so.
I think it's a step below Bill

Chris (01:41:19):
Rubane, but it very similar voice and like.
Every time he enters the screen,there's like crazy shit going on.
It's getting big blood beat vibes.
If you enjoyed the silliness ofthe villain in this movie, I would
say, check out blood beat for sure.
It's also a Christmas horror movie.
So there you go.

George (01:41:40):
And also it has that famous song, right?
Mr.
Blood beat.
Mr.
Blood, blood beat.
Mr.
Blood beat.
Mr.
Blood, blood beat.

Chris (01:41:50):
I, it sounds like you have seen this because that, that,
that exact song is in there.
So as the villain is now in the lab,Mishizawa falls to the ground and her
glasses go flying off, landing twoinches in front of her on the floor.
But try as she might,she cannot find them.
And I thought this was so funny becauseThe glasses land on the floor, just

(01:42:13):
out of reach of her arm, and shekeeps just moving her hand laterally,
but never reaching any further, sothat she can easily find her glasses.
Yeah.
Good stuff.

George (01:42:25):
Uh, I notice that you're not currently wearing glasses.
Are you wearing contacts,or are you, uh Okay.
Because I was going to say, you know,as, as a glasses wearer, sometimes
when they, when they fall, you go, I amsure that I am reaching where they are.
And, uh, surely if I wiggle myhand in this one exact spot, I
will come across these glasses.

(01:42:46):
Um,

depth perception.

Chris (01:42:48):
That's right.
Exactly.
Right.
I mean, I'm like a negative six,so I have bad vision, but it's not
nearly as bad as some other people's.
Like I can still like.
See differences in colorcertainly if I had like black
horn rimmed glasses on a time

George (01:43:04):
brag really big heart big time Brag, and I'm really honestly
uncomfortable right now with the level ofhubris being displayed right now Yeah, I
didn't know this was that type of podcast.
I don't know what would

have come on if I knew that

George (01:43:16):
Icarus Let's see what happens when your eyes fly too close to the Sun.

Chris (01:43:21):
Mm hmm My bad.
I hope you can find it inyour hearts to forgive me.

George (01:43:27):
First Brantley and now Chris.
This is really Yeah.
I, I need to watch myself and makesure I don't have anything to apologize
for by the end of this podcast.

Chris (01:43:37):
Oh, I'm sure you will.
Couldn't be me.
If you don't already.
Oh

George (01:43:42):
no, oh no!

Chris (01:43:44):
So this guy steps on Ms.
Shozawa's glasses, and the villainsays there is no substance on our
planet that would create GT medicine,so I want the actual GT medicine.
Ms.
Shozawa won't tell him where itis, and for that, she must pay.
The masked villain stabs her withthree broken test tubes to the

(01:44:04):
chest before ripping her tongue out.

George (01:44:07):
Oh my god, it's so good, and you know, you know what's gonna happen as
soon as he jams that first one in, and ittakes a second for the blood to erupt out.
And it's in that secondthat your delight grows.
Yeah.
I know it's gonna come.

Chris (01:44:22):
It's in that second that some guy offscreen is priming the pump with
his mouth to make the blood come out.

George (01:44:31):
Big, big inhale.
Is happening in that second,

more great practical effects.
These really were, I mean, both moviesreally were great with the practical
effects and this one and this death,especially we're fantastic, but I also
want to point out, we talk about seeingthe seams, there's the, uh, The writhing
back and forth, which is very obviouslyjust a fast forward and rewinding of,
like, the footage, but like, it was stillvery charming, you know, it was like this

(01:45:01):
very, like, practical way of doing it,um, that it wasn't too, like, ridiculous,
you know, that it felt, like, very overthe top, it was like, oh, okay, like, you
notice it when you see it, but it wasn't,like, I don't know, so egregious that you
were just like, rolling your eyes, it wasjust kind of like, Oh, that's kind of fun
that they, you know, were able to makethe, uh, I don't know, agony and torture

(01:45:23):
last a little longer for her, I guess.
Uh,

George (01:45:26):
yeah, it's actually exactly as impressive as the slow
motion when the aquarium drops inGakidama, as, uh, now that we're

talking about it.
You know what?

George (01:45:35):
Good

point.
Good point.
I'm seeing why, uh,biotherapy was your favorite.

Chris (01:45:40):
Some of the shots of like the test tubes in her chest and the blood
spurting are shot in a similar blackvoid to the dinner scene from Gakidama.
So I definitely appreciated that.

George (01:45:52):
It's affordable housing.

Chris (01:45:53):
So, outside the building, and surrounded by a cacophony of birds, Mr.
Kanabara is somehow able to hear thebreaking of a test tube, and he and
Mayumi run to Mishizawa's aid, andit is I thought this was so funny how
far they had to run And, like, how faraway they were to where they could hear
just, like, a test tube breaking, itreally reminded me of Randy Quaid in

(01:46:17):
Freak'd, with, like, styrofoam cup.

George (01:46:22):
That's funny.
Yeah, it is, um, look, maybeit pushes the boundaries of
believability here and there.
But, uh, you know, uh, who among ushas not had a psychic connection with
someone in our university or whateverthe fuck this is that, uh, our lab?
That and we could tell when theybreak something, you know, when you're
the teacher you can tell when thekids are being bad You just feel it.

Chris (01:46:46):
True that.
Of course, Mr.
Kanabara and Mayumi arrived too lateShe's already dead and the two go
to the police to report the crime.
On their way out of the On her way outof the building rather, Mayumi is stopped
by Maeda He asks Mayumi to go to Dr.
Hirose's lab and find his finalresearch on GT medicine so that he,
Maeda, can give the research to Date.

(01:47:09):
As he is asking this, one of thedetectives from the police station
spots him and chases him through a park.
The masked villain shows up againand rips off some of Maeda's
cheek skin off screen and he dies.
Beautiful.

George (01:47:28):
I was laughing to myself that, like, I keep, like, there, uh, I don't
know if this will get cut out or,like, trimmed or whatever, but there
are these moments where, as a podcasthost, I notice that Chris is giving us
a chance to interject and, uh, there's,there's these brief lulls, but I, I
don't have anything to say becausehe's doing such a great job of summing

(01:47:51):
up this very easy to understand plot.
That is just like, yeah,that's exactly what happens.
You're totally right.
And I love that for the movie.

Yeah, no, I completely agree.
Chris is doing a fantastic job,uh, hosting and giving us time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I was just going to say this is likeone of, this is like a classic slasher
trope of like the dead victim Who fallstowards like the final girl or something,
you know, who are, uh, you know, he'slike up against a tree And we see like

(01:48:21):
the flayed skin and everything on him,pretty good practical effects there.
And then just slowly kind ofwobbles and like falls into our,
uh, our, uh, female lead there.

Chris (01:48:34):
Yes.
Good stuff.
Much like with the lightsgoing off jump scare.
Again, this is like a 35 minute movie.
So that that thing is condensedto like eight seconds.
And does it work?
You guys be the judge.
Mr.
Kanabara and Mayumi go to thelab and search through Dr.

(01:48:54):
Hirose's floppy disks, butthe GT Medicine isn't there.
And wouldn't you know it, this guyshows up again, this masked villain,
and he's asking for the GT Medicine.
But Mr.
Kanabara throws some flour inhis face and escapes with Mayumi.
Only to end up in a nondescript, hollowedout building with the masked villain and
two detectives from the police station.

Now, I believe it's in this scene where our masked villain uses,
uh, telekinesis to close the door onthem without actually touching it.
And I kept thinking, when is he evergonna, when does he use this again?
Because he never uses these telekineticpowers ever again, and I couldn't
help but think, if there is a flawin this film, they introduced this

(01:49:39):
one aspect that he never uses againthroughout the rest of the film.

George (01:49:45):
Uh, it's more, it's really more of just a flex, uh, you know,
he's just saying I could use this,I choose not to, because I respect
you as prey, like the predator, as

the

George (01:49:57):
predator

does.
Oh, interesting.
Okay, you know what?
Asked and answered.
I retract my, uh, my point.
Great,

George (01:50:04):
great.
I'm glad, I'm glad that I canhelp answer these questions
for you guys about biotherapy.
Aren't you glad?
Aren't you glad that youinvited me to come on and not
be annoying at all about it?

Chris (01:50:18):
But I guess this is a good time to talk about the villain generally because
one, two things that we've, well, onething we haven't talked about is how the
visual effects that always accompany him.
So I think I've seen this like threeor four times and it's only available
in like a pretty bad VHS rip.

(01:50:39):
So he's surrounded by blue light, which Ihad always like in previous viewings had
assumed like it looks like giant squaresof blue because of how pixelated and
compressed the video has become over time.
But this time I'm like, I'm prettysure the visual effects were.
Like, that's how low budget thisis, is that they couldn't really
pull off a blue aura around him, sothey just put blue squares on him.

(01:51:04):
Am I off base with that?

George (01:51:07):
Um, I don't know.
I actually, you know, I don't know howmuch I clocked the aura, to be honest.
I was too busy being distractedby his plethora of powers.
Uh, you know, not onlytelekinesis, but I, and not to
jump ahead, but we will see acid.
At one point, you know, uh, soyou just get you get swept up in

(01:51:29):
these superhero movies It's such aspectacle that you just don't even

really pay attention to the plot holes Yeah, and I can't say
that I noticed they're like square Itseemed more like an aura or a hue to
me that's around him and I assumed thatwas some sort of I don't know, like
optical effect or something in post.
Yeah.
But, um, Mm-Hmm.
. I don't know.
I, I, you know, I could, I can't saythat I, I, I felt like it was just
like blue squares on him or anything.

Chris (01:51:54):
Who can say Schrodinger's aura?
Who can say, who can say, yeah.
And the other thing is that everytime he opens a door or like enters
the frame, they just very loudlystart playing some like pretty
badass synth music and hell yeah.
Yeah.
I really, really enjoyedthat this time around.

George (01:52:12):
Hell yeah.
It's sick.

Chris (01:52:16):
Yeah, so they're in this, like, uh, warehouse that is
somehow also part of the school.
Uh, Mayumi, Mr.
Kanabara, and twodetectives, and the villain.
The villain grabs oneof the detectives guns.
And uses it to knock out the detective'steeth before straight up just executing
him and shooting him in the head.

(01:52:37):
Then he quickly dispatches the otherdetective by slamming his head against a
concrete wall, which causes a fountain ofblood to shoot out the back of his head.
And just then, Date pulls

George (01:52:49):
up I re I was muted, hold on, hold on, let me let me jump in there.
I was talking at length.
Thank God I looked upand saw that I was muted.
Otherwise, God, who knows how long thismight only have been a two and a half
hour episode instead of three hours.
No, this moment I really want to highlightbecause it's, first of all, it's very fun,
it's very good gore effects, but also, Iam a notable criticizer of guns in movies

(01:53:15):
because I often find them very boring,um, but here, Not only is it, uh, used to
good effect, because there is a absolutebrain splattering that happens with this
gun, but then in addition to that, he onlyuses it the one time, and then swiftly
beats someone's ass with his fists.
And to that I say, bravo, get youa villain who can do both, and

(01:53:39):
it's acceptable to me to have thisgun kata here, uh, when you also
are doing actual fighting as well.

Yeah, it felt a little bit like, uh, Oh, you're gonna try to use
your sad, pathetic weapons against me?
Ha ha!
Let me use them against you and knockyour teeth out with them, shove it
into the back of your throat, andthen blow your head off with it.
It almost was like a, like an F.
U.
of sorts to these police officers before.
Going on to dispatch the secondone in the way that he preferred.

(01:54:09):
And I will just say, excellent squibwork with the explosion of, whether it
was a squib or not, or whether it was atube that someone blew out of, whatever.
It looked great, uh, splatteringagainst the wall there.

George (01:54:20):
Taste your puny earth weapon!

Yes.
And the sound effects too, when it, Ithink the teeth getting knocked out was
possibly the most, uh, nasty, uh, ormaybe had the most visceral reaction from
me, just because it's such like a, ah,man, like visceral thing of like, just
a, A metal tube on the gun just, like,pushing Cause it's not like he hits him.

(01:54:44):
He, like, almost, like, pushes slowly to,like, push those teeth out of the gun.
It's like, God, that justseems so, like, horrible.
What a bad way to lose your teeth.

George (01:54:54):
Yeah, people should watch Bullet Ballet and, um, Tokyo
Fist as well by Shinya Tsukamoto.
That guy fucking rocks.
He does a lot of cool shit like that.

Chris (01:55:04):
Yeah, that's interesting that, I mean, I feel like I kind of like gun
violence in, like, horror movies becauseit's It's so not the norm that it's
almost like, Oh, that's interesting to me.
Like there's, I'm talking

George (01:55:18):
about even action, to be honest for me, I would almost always
have fist to fist confrontation,

Chris (01:55:25):
certainly in action, because, I mean, it opens up a lot more possibilities
for choreography, but I think.
There is just something pretty visceralabout gun violence in horror movies that
I seem to enjoy, especially, I mean,it's a weird example, but Halloween 4
where Michael stabs someone with a rifle.
Big fan of that.

(01:55:48):
Or, or Pumpkinhead stabbingpeople with rifles.
I thought that

George (01:55:52):
was his niece who stabbed the guy with a gun.
Or am I thinking of five?
That's when she fully

Chris (01:56:00):
Five is the one that is solely just Loomis yelling at a six year old girl.

George (01:56:06):
Uh, that's right.
That's right.

Chris (01:56:08):
And we love it for that.
Just then, Date pulls upin a car, uh, to rescue Mr.
Kanara and Mayumi, Mr.
Kanara asks Dante why the GTmedicine research was shut down.
And Dante explains, if GT medicineenters the water in large amounts,
it's predicted that 99% of planktonwill become completely extinct.

(01:56:29):
The ocean's components will change,and if they change, what do you
think will happen to the animals?
And through several leaps in logic, Mr.
Kanara Deduces that all lifeon the planet would die.
That's the devil's research, Mayumi says.
Another great line.

And here's where the movie did kick up to me, because I'm like, oh, an
environmental message, they're comingin strong, this movie means something,
they're really trying to get a pointacross, and that's, this is where it
bumped up a level for me, for sure.

George (01:57:01):
Definitely, I think that this is as thematically rich as Gakidama, and
you can really tell that there is sortof a message of like, This is a research
heavy institution and they get a lot oftheir funding by the military often, you
know, uh, even a school like the one thatI work at, they have partnerships that I
don't agree with, but because they havea lot of research demands, um, there

(01:57:26):
are some, uh, partnerships that are,uh, uh, with, with companies that, yeah,
do, do a little bit more like militarytype things, military applications
of engineering type stuff, basically.
I think that this does play a littlebit interestingly with the sort of,
like, usage of the research, right?
Even if it starts out as medicine,they're calling it GT medicine,

(01:57:50):
the sort of ulterior applicationof it by this external force.
Who is in pursuit of it for nefariouspurposes, um, twists it and it
becomes a question of like, well,when does it become worth pursuing
this scientific knowledge at thecost of potentially being misused?
Um, is human curiosity its own end?

(01:58:12):
Or should it be curbed in pursuit ofguarding the ecosystem and making sure
that we don't accidentally destroy theenvironment through our, uh, mechanisms,
uh, and just exploration of, you know,chemistry and shit, all of this, uh, Non
biodegradable stuff that we put into theenvironment is very similar to G medicine

(01:58:36):
if you think about it, or GG medicine.

And that's the abstract for your dissertation, right George?

George (01:58:41):
That's exactly right.
I'm so glad that this hasbecome the new project for me.
I was looking for something to doafter Best Little Horror House in
Philly, and I think going back toschool to really talk about biotherapy
is really going to be rewarding for

me.
Yes, I can't wait to read it, andI hope your defense goes well.
Thank you.

Chris (01:59:00):
So, I actually did at one point consider doing a podcast called
Gakidama Minute, where it's a minuteby minute podcast about Gakidama,
because it's, I don't know, there'sjust something very fun to me about
doing a minute by minute podcast ofsomething so inane and so, like, obtuse.

(01:59:22):
But ultimately, I was like Even lesspeople will listen to that than this, so.
Who am I serving other than myself?

Uh, the Gakidama superfan community.
Yeah, obviously.
But that is kind of a fascinating topic,because obviously there was like the Star
Wars minute, and that has such a massivefan base, but I do wonder What would be
the, I guess, impact of a pod podcastor some other project that goes minute
by minute for something that probablyhas a very, very, very niche audience?

(01:59:56):
I'd be very curious, kind of.
I almost want you to pursue that.
Not that I want to put you through that,but just because I want to see what
the effect of that is on the world.
Well, hey.
Yeah,

George (02:00:05):
and it'll be really interesting to compare with the,
uh, competing biotherapy minute.
Uh, podcast

that I started at the same exact time.
Always a villain.
Well, you know,
Gakidama will go about 20 minutes longer than
the, uh, biotherapy minute.
Exactly.

George (02:00:20):
Exactly.
So, uh, you know, much, much likeBest Little Horror House in Philly,
I have an ending already in sight.

Chris (02:00:26):
Yep.
Well, you know, rewatch Gakidama, pickyour minutes, and I'll have you guys on.
I can't

George (02:00:34):
wait.

Chris (02:00:36):
The three head to Dr.
Hirose's lab in search ofthe GT Medicine research.
But wouldn't you know it, themasked villain shows up again.
Who, or what, the hell are you, Date asks.
Another great line.
Who saw that coming?
And the villain actually gives Date avery detailed answer to that question,
which is, I've come from the farfuture, a future unimaginable by humans.

(02:01:02):
I've come here by light.
My people are the secondrace of Earthlings.
The inferior humans were unable to cleanthe pollution caused by their development.
Unable to recover fromtheir destroyed environment.
In 500 years, they all diedoff along with everything.
After that began our new genesis.
The alien bacteria brought byshooting stars were our ancestors.

(02:01:24):
So, like the creatures on Earthbegan from plankton, Citation needed.
The second generation evolvedfrom bacteria from space.
From a time capsule buried deepunderground, we discovered GT Medicine.
One month from now, it willbe complete as GT Medicine 2.
Give me the GT Medicine.
I will change the oceans withthe GT Medicine and make all

(02:01:47):
creatures extinct, so we canstart our generation even earlier.
I'm going to tell you whyI chose now to show up.
To get my hands on GT Medicine, atthe same time kill the creators of
it, and to stop them from making GT2.
Now was the perfect time.
Say less, dude.

George (02:02:05):
It really makes you realize that someone should have asked
him, who are you, much earlier.

Yes.
And if there's another criticism Icould level against this film These
exposition dumps really take up agood chunk of this third act, I guess,
if that's what we're calling it.
Like, there's, there's definitely lessaction than I would have anticipated
in a kind of finale and a lot more,you know, information like this.

George (02:02:32):
Now, I did mention this in my review outlier box, but in this moment
particularly, this movie took on sortof a zat on cocaine feeling for me.
And, uh, that holds a realspecial place in my heart.
It was one of my sort ofintroductions to bad movies.

(02:02:54):
And, you know, maybe that is part ofwhy I reacted so positively to this
movie, but there are also lengthymonologues about ocean life and how he's
going to use them to destroy humanity.
Yeah, it's, it's Boy, it's a treat,and this truly does ring like Zat

(02:03:15):
does, and, uh, in in this moment, it'slike, yeah, what if Zat got, like,
real aggressive with it, and, like,started just, like, chasing people down?
He's pretty aggressive.
To be like, yeah, I'm gonnaturn you into a fish man.
Not like, look, yes, he goes nutsin the pharmacy that one time.
Laconic, but aggressive.
But he, like, Yeah.

(02:03:36):
That's the thing, right?
He can only move so fast.
Whereas I believe that thisguy could at least, you know,
move that like a, a light jog.
unlike Z, who's his trainerswould get in the way.
Mm-Hmm.
, George: that guy, poor guy, couldn't see a thing this guy learned from Z
that, okay, let's at least let ourguy have a little bit of vision.

Chris (02:03:59):
Yeah.
Alternate title of that,blood waters of Dr.
Z for any MST three K fans.
I don't think I ever knew it wascalled Zat until you mentioned it.
Wow.
How about

George (02:04:11):
that?
How about Zat?
Yeah.

Chris (02:04:13):
Wow.
And I believe Zat is like the formulafor his medicine, like Z A, Z sub
A, A sub T, or something like that.
So it's not a connectionI would have ever made.
But once you say it, it'slike, yeah, I get that.
They're both perfect movies.

(02:04:34):
I can't argue with that.
So, Date and this maskedvillain begin to tussle.
The masked villain is finally unmasked,and it reveals a weird reptilian face.
The villain rips out Date's intestines,but Date is mostly unphased by this,
and continues to fight the villain.
Dante pours GT medicine on the villain'shead and the villain fucks off through

(02:04:59):
the very same light from once he came.
Dante, who is somehowstill alive, tells Mr.
Kana Barra to destroy the GT medicineresearch, but he also reveals that
he has been developing GT medicinetoo before he finally succumbs
to his extremely mortal wounds.

George (02:05:17):
Oh my God, and it pans in on her and she says, and I'm pregnant.
I'm, I'm pregnant with a Gakidama.

Chris (02:05:28):
The VCU, V Cinema Universe, from George, biotherapy plus Gakidama.

George (02:05:37):
I'm writing it already.
So do original content.
Do not steal

Chris (02:05:41):
copyright.

I love that the copyright is just taking two copyrighted
things and smashing them together.

Chris (02:05:49):
Yeah.
Well, I've already mailed it to myself.
So that it's official.

George (02:05:54):
They say that, uh, good artists create, but great artists steal.

Prantly.
So, you know, a good point.
I stand corrected.
Yeah.

Chris (02:06:02):
I mean, proof is in the pudding right here because Steven Spielberg.
Clearly stole this acid spitting scene forJurassic Park, because the guy does spit
acid in Cannavara's face for some reason.

George (02:06:15):
Yeah, uh, not for some reason, for the reason of it looks fucking
cool and he has acid spit, that's why.

Chris (02:06:23):
Fair.
I mean, you would think if you hadthat power, you wouldn't want to wear
a mask you would, that would be, Iwould be spamming that all the time.
People wouldn't even know I hadtelekinesis because I would just
be spitting in people's faces.

George (02:06:36):
See, this is the thing.
This is what you guys aren'tgetting about the biotherapist
is that he is walking around withthese like weighted bracelets on.
He, he cannot let themknow his true power.
And it's only in these little flasheswhere you see the telekinesis, where you
see the acid spit, that we're gettingeven a glimpse of what he's capable of.

(02:07:01):
And, uh, you know, I actuallythink that it's these restrictions
that make it an even better moviethan I thought going into it.

Chris (02:07:08):
Yeah, you know, now that you mention it Can't argue with that.
Paint this guy green.
And he looks quite a bit likePiccolo from Dragon Ball Z.

George (02:07:15):
That's right.
That's right.
And he did go into thehyperbaric time chamber to train.
So another Dragon Ball Z connection.
Wow.
He says, I'll be back.
And I'll be the prince of the Saiyans

Chris (02:07:30):
this time.
Wow.
So this is going to be asuper like in a possibly more
obscure than biotherapy itself.
So there's an episode of an old TVshow that was on Comedy Central called
Upright Citizen's Brigade, which, Imean, people are probably familiar
with that name because they have sincebecome very popular, but there was

George (02:07:49):
a I know the UCB show, but I haven't seen all of it.

Chris (02:07:52):
There was a scene That was basically making fun of Scientology and
the way that they would brainwash peoplewas to read from the psychotonomy book
and the whole joke was just like howpoorly written it was like, it's all
about danger, aliens and nutrition food.
And while I was watching this, I got thatsame like, feeling of like GT medicine.

(02:08:14):
Like, it's so, it's so meaningless.
Like, it means nothing,but they keep saying it.

George (02:08:22):
This, okay, here's the thing, all jokes aside, I have been pretty
tongue in cheek this whole time, uh,but I do think that in these moments,
it does feel like Wesker being like,throw me the T virus and I'll let you
live, Leon, and it's just like, it isnonsensical, but that is, that is part of
what I am liking about it, where it is sononsensical as to become a joy to behold.

Chris (02:08:49):
Hmm.
Yeah, I mean, as I was taking mynotes, I'm like, jeez, I'm really
typing GT medicine like a lot.
Control F shows 29 results,which is almost weird.
Once per minute of film,they mention GT medicine.
Wow, that's true.

George (02:09:07):
That's true.
Yeah, that's how, youknow, it's important.
Yeah.
So

Chris (02:09:11):
after Date dies, we then cut to Mayumi and Mr.
Kanabara on a beach.
Mr.
Kanabara says, I'll do it.
I'll finish GT Medicine2 and announce it in Dr.
Hirose and Date's names, the GT Medicine.
We will use it for a world of peace.
Beautiful.

(02:09:32):
Exactly the opposite of whatyou should do, based on No,

George (02:09:35):
it's beautiful.
It's a loving, beautiful tributeto their memory and honor, and,
uh, surely nothing could go wrong.

Yeah, I mean, I was a little shocked by this ending, after everything
we've just seen, and knowing what GTmedicine is, and there was no explanation
of like, how GT 2 was any better, or,you know, yeah, like, I mean, maybe
if there, I mean, Far be it for me tosay this film needs more explanation.
But if there was something about, like,why GT2 was better, like it had the

(02:10:08):
benefits without the drawbacks of, like,regular GT medicine, maybe I could see
this ending making very much sense.
But I was sort of, at the end, justlike, what the fuck is he doing?
I think

George (02:10:19):
if you look at it through that lens that I was talking about earlier,
where it is sort of playing with the Uh,challenges of being a research institution
and the pressures that you face that,uh, unfortunately this, this good doctor
has succumbed to the pressure of, offunding and keeping the research going.
And so he claims that it is in herhonor, but it is in fact, the, the,

(02:10:43):
the last bit of irony that this movietwists the knife with, and, and he has.
Uh, he has given in to the, thedemands of, of these external forces
that, that are beyond his control.
And, uh, you know, if it's notthe alien, then it is whoever is,
is getting his research to go.
It's, it's human curiosity.

(02:11:05):
It's all of these things.
And, uh, it's actually areally poignant ending.

Chris (02:11:08):
The only way.
To stop an alien with GT medicineis a good guy with GT medicine, too.

George (02:11:15):
Ugh, I'm always

saying this.
I'm always saying this.
And you know, I'm glad you broughtall this up, George, because I was
thinking the environmental messageof this film, but this is obviously a
massive critique of academia in general.
Yes, yes.
And I'm really seeing that now withyour, you know, very cogent analysis.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I'm just glad that

George (02:11:34):
I can spotlight the movie in this way.
It's been a real passion of mine foras long as I've known about this movie.
And, um, I just am really honored to beable to bring it to everyone's attention.

Chris (02:11:45):
Beautiful.
So George, please explain to uswhy this is better than Gakitama.

George (02:11:53):
Um, look.
I have been sort of talking about thisat length already, but to me, it is,
the nonsensical nature of it is sortof like, even more so than Gakidama.
Like, yes, that's a low budget movie,yes, it has all these challenges
that are delightful to behold themovercome, and yes, it has a wonderful
message, but those are the things.

(02:12:15):
That make it feel like even it is onanother level than biotherapy is, and
I like to roll around in the mud withbiotherapy, like, that, that's where
I'm at, and, um, the fact that itis this, Very silly, zat on cocaine,
giallo villain, going around fuckingkilling people, demanding to know where

(02:12:38):
this fucking MacGuffin is, and justripping out everybody's body parts.
I think like three people get body partsripped out of them, uh, by this guy.
And, and it's delightful every time.
And, uh, you know, I, I certainlyvery much enjoyed the eruption of the
Gakidama from everybody in that movie.

(02:12:59):
And I, uh, enjoyed the insane obsessionhunger that, uh, comes from giving
birth to one of these Gakidama.
But when it comes to my horror tastes,you know, I'm a slasher boy at heart and
this guy just being an unstoppable forcewho is, uh, ultimately stopped is, uh,

(02:13:20):
that's just my bread and butter, baby.

Chris (02:13:21):
So Brantley, I mean, how did you feel about, uh, biotherapy generally
and maybe why did you like Akidama more?

Yeah, I mean, I thought biotherapy was really fun.
I think it was, uh, you know, uh,entertaining in its, you know,
silliness at times, especially in theway that Gokidama is as well at times.
Um, I do think that it's sort of hampereda little bit with, um, uh, Dialogue heavy.
It's very dialogue forward, uh, if wecan say that, um, including, like, like

(02:13:57):
we mentioned in the finale, which Ithink makes it, um, perhaps not as, um,
entertaining, uh, to me as Gokidama was.
I do agree the practicaleffects in it are great.
Uh, that being said, I, I, I justconnected more with Gokidama.
I think, um, as a whole, it'sa, you know, an overall better

(02:14:17):
film from a technical standpoint.
It looks better, it's crafted better.
I think the special effects are probablya little bit better for Gokidama.
Um, and, uh, You know, I'm a slasher guytoo, but I will say I do love a puppet.
I love a little creature in ahorror movie, and uh, the Gokidama
was just, uh, such a blast.

(02:14:37):
This little Japanese ghoulie, uh, soto speak, uh, was a fun, fun film.
So, yeah, I, uh, I just likeGokidama a little bit more, but,
uh, both are great, and I recommendpeople check out both of them.

Chris (02:14:49):
Yeah, I mean my my vote is I've made no secret gaki dama But
I would not have shown or suggestedbiotherapy if I didn't think that you
wouldn't get some something out ofit So definitely like both of them.
I mean Uh, what, how was yourfirst experience guys with this

(02:15:09):
little micro genre of film?

George (02:15:14):
I'm muted again.
I thumbs up.
I very much enjoyed myexposure to the cinema.
Um, certainly here's the thing.
I don't know that it would bethe kind of thing that I am going
to dive into myself because itfeels like the kind of thing that.
Is difficult to sift through the badexamples of, but if somebody were

(02:15:36):
like, Hey, now that I know you'reinto this thing, uh, here are some
more good ones that you can check out.
Certainly, I would be open tothat and checking those out.

Yeah, I think this was a great introduction.
I think you, you know, you came in with.
Goki Dama, which I think you've alreadymentioned on this pod, is perhaps
one of the best all around ones, somaybe I've had this, uh, sub sub sub
genre spoiled for me, um, seeing the,one of the quote unquote better ones.
Quite possible.
Yeah, but these are both great, like,You know, introductions, you know, and,

(02:16:08):
you know, a 55 minute and a 35 minute,you know, that's an hour and a half.
That's like a regular classic 90 minute.
Not a, not a tough

George (02:16:16):
investment

to,

George (02:16:17):
to, to get in for.
Exactly.
Try two, two different,very disparate movies.
And, uh, you're only, you'reonly committing to 90 minutes.

Yeah.
And I will say, you talk about that, thatage of confusion, you know, I, I think
one of the nice things that come out ofthat is you have these oddly timed, uh,
films that can have a market in that area.
You know, there's really not usuallya market for shorts, you know, a
30 minute movie outside of film.
Film festivals doesn't really have likea market where the filmmakers have an

(02:16:47):
opportunity to recoup any of their funds.
And I think this is a great thing comingout of that experimentation that it
creates a market for a shorter film likebiotherapy that now almost 40 years later,
we're talking about and watching becauseand having a good time enjoying it.
Hell yeah, and I'm going back toschool to do a dissertation on it.

(02:17:07):
You know?
And who's to say we ever would havehad the chance to watch a 35 minute,
uh, film like that if there wasn'ta market for it because of V Cinema.

George (02:17:14):
Yeah, and actually I guess these, uh, these studio gatekeepers don't know
what the fuck they're talking about.

Chris (02:17:20):
Absolutely.
I think it's interesting that one of theseis double the length of the other and yet
they're like Neither of them feel paddedor really too short for what they are.
Like, obviously if you're tryingto tell, like, The Godfather or
something like that, and you cantense condense it down to 35 minutes.
Yeah, it's gonna be not good But Ifeel like they just knew the assignment

(02:17:45):
or like what we want to do Justifiesthis length of time and we're going
to do that We're not going to beconstrained by some 90 minutes or longer

George (02:17:59):
Well, I would say that ordinarily, I mean, I guess I agree
with you in general, but I think thatthat's a weird comparison because
it's so similar to the Godfather.
I mean, at one point, he's even like,you come to me on the day of the day.
My Gakidama climbs up my vagina.

Chris (02:18:16):
Yeah, no, I saw that on the Miramax channel the other day because they're just
playing the Godfather trilogy on rotation.
I completely forgot about that.

George (02:18:25):
The Francis Ford Gakidama Coda.

Chris (02:18:30):
Well, uh, I'm glad that you guys both enjoyed both of
these movies to some degree.
So come to that point in the showwhere just to lighten the mood a
little bit, not that we've beentalking about anything heavy so far.
Um, I have a little game for you guysthat I call in honor of GT medicine,

(02:18:51):
call this fictional pharmaceuticals.
So, the object of this game is I'mgoing to name a, a drug or a chemical or
something along those lines that comesfrom like movie, TV, or possibly books.
Uh, and you guys just have tobuzz in with your name and tell me
what, what property that's from.

(02:19:12):
Make sense?
Okay.
Very simple.
It makes

sense.
I'll do my best.
I worry I'm not going to bevery good, but we'll give it a

George (02:19:18):
shot.
I think And I'm actually,I'm going to be amazing.
Yeah.
Just kidding, just kidding.
I'm probably going to suckat this, but that's okay.
It's about trying, andthat's the important part.
That's right.

Chris (02:19:30):
The first one is Nuke.
Brantley.
Brantley.
RoboCop 2.
That's correct.
See, you said you weren't gonna get this.
You said it was gonna be hard.
Wow, he was right

on it.
The one I had in my head, and I'm like,that's like the lowest hanging fruit.
So if he says Nuke, I'm just

Chris (02:19:47):
buzzing.
Alright, number two.
Hypnosil.

George (02:19:52):
Uh, George.
Oh, Brantley.

Chris (02:19:54):
I heard George first.
That

George (02:19:55):
would be, that would be Dream Warriors.

Chris (02:19:57):
Yes, that is, it is in Nightmare on Elm Street 3, 4, and Freddy vs.
Jason, so.
Yep.
That is correct.
Number three.
Melange.
Brantley.

George.
Brantley.
Dune?

Chris (02:20:12):
Yes.
Correct.

Curses!
Curses!
I was like, it took me a secondand I was like, oh right, the Spice
Melange, yes, the Spice Melange.
You know.
I mean, you guys are 100 I had to say myown name and I was trying to remember what

George (02:20:23):
to buzz in.

Chris (02:20:25):
All right, number four.
Zygrot24.

George (02:20:30):
Oh, um, George.
George.
Is that, uh, I feel likethat's from Vonnegut, isn't it?
That's from a Vonnegut book.
Is it?
No?
It's

not.
I retract my buzzer.
No.
Okay.
I, I, I, I know it.
I, I know I've heard it.
I just, I, I, I have no, I cannotplace where I know it from.
I'm just going to say like,

Chris (02:20:54):
Clockwork

Orange?

Chris (02:20:56):
That is Zygrot 24 is from Freaked.
That is the free chemical thatRandy Quaid uses to mutate people.
That So, two to one in favor of Brantleyso far, and number five is Slow Mo.
Brantley.
George.
Brantley.
Dredd.
That is correct.

George (02:21:17):
God damn it.
He's quick.
He's quick, folks.

Chris (02:21:20):
He's a real ringer.

George (02:21:22):
Yeah, yeah.
He really soft selled his ability here.

Chris (02:21:25):
Number five, Felicium.

George (02:21:28):
George.

Chris (02:21:28):
George.

George (02:21:29):
Elysium.
I'm

Chris (02:21:33):
sorry, that is incorrect.
Brantley for the steal.
I

George (02:21:36):
had to take the guess,

right?
I have no idea.
This is not ringing any bells to me, andI'm sure you're going to say something and
I'm going to be like, oh, I'm an idiot.
I think you might

Chris (02:21:47):
know this one.
It is from Star Trek The Next Generation.

It is

Chris (02:21:53):
from that episode where there's two planets, one is selling a drug to the
other planet and they're saying, everyonein this planet has a sickness and this
drug is the only thing that's the cure,but the sickness is their addiction
to the drug that they're selling.

Whoa.
All right.
That, that's a good, you know,in my defense, there's like
seven seasons of Star Trek.
I can't remember all thedrugs they're making.

George (02:22:17):
Are you sure that it's not also in the Matt Damon vehicle, Elysium?

Chris (02:22:22):
Uh, I've never seen it, so it could be in there.
No one has

George (02:22:25):
seen it.
That's what I'm saying.
It could be in there and no

one would know.
Alright.
It's the drug you have to take sothat the exoskeleton attaches to
your back without too much pain.

George (02:22:35):
That's how they send you back down to earth when you get there.
Kinda sounds like you've seen

Chris (02:22:38):
this before.
movie Brantley.
You are the one that saw the movie.
Wow.
Wow.

George (02:22:45):
Quick name one other person in that movie.
Jodie Foster.
He's seen it.
I believe him now.
I don't even, the problem is thatI can't be sure that that's true.
He could have said any name andI would just have to believe him.

Chris (02:22:59):
Yeah.
You'll never know.
The next one is back to George.
George.
Star Wars.
That's correct.
Wow.
Surprised you got that.
Which Star Wars is that from?
That's what's Luke is in

George (02:23:14):
the

Chris (02:23:15):
Bacta tank.
Yes, it is the liquidthat rejuvenates you.
Gotcha.

George (02:23:20):
And actually I, uh, am a huge Star Wars fan and everyone knows this about me,
so it's really not surprising to me thatI got that one because I'm learning this

Chris (02:23:28):
because I never would have connected Gakidama to Rancor,
so only a true Star Wars head.
I talk about Star

George (02:23:36):
Wars incessantly, and everyone knows this about me, so you're
really getting the true glimpse here.

Chris (02:23:43):
So, score is 3 2 in favor of Brantley still.
The next one is Temosyl,
Temosyl.
George.
I know the name, I just can't George.

George (02:23:54):
That's a real medicine.

Chris (02:23:57):
I'm sorry.
It is not.

Um, again, it's like, I know I've heard it before, I just,
I cannot place what that's from, so.
It sounds more standard, not assci fi y, so, I don't know, I'm
gonna say Clockwork Orange again.
I don't know.

Chris (02:24:14):
That is from Arrested Development.
It is the drug that, uh, what is it, Dr.
Funke's Good Time FamilyBand Solution sells?

George (02:24:24):
Uh, that's real.
That's real life.
That's a documentary series,haven't you seen the shooting style?

Yeah, good point.
Hey, I was right though, it's a moreground It sounded like a more grounded
drug and it was a more grounded thing.

Chris (02:24:37):
So, still three to two, next one is Flintstones Chewable Morphine.
George.
George.

George (02:24:45):
Surely a guess, but I'm gonna say, um, Oh, what the heck is
that movie with the three shells?
What the heck is that movie?
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Demolition Man, Demolition Man.
Sorry.
Clearly not the answer.
Felt like it would be like thator like Idiocracy or something.

I'll go with the other Sly Stallone, uh, film from the 90s.
And I said Dredd earlier,so I'll say Judge Dredd.

Chris (02:25:11):
I'm sorry, that is from The Simpsons.
Wow.

George (02:25:15):
Simpsons edit.
Rrrah.

Chris (02:25:17):
Still locked in at 3 2, next we have

George (02:25:20):
Tough battle.

Chris (02:25:20):
Ephemeral.
Ephemeral.

George (02:25:27):
Again, I feel like I've heard it.
Oh man.
This is like a time slowmedicine as well, right?
Isn't it?
Maybe I feel like I remember it too.
Fuck, I'm not gonna get this one, though.

I'm

George (02:25:38):
not gonna pull

it.
You Yeah, I'm not gonna either.
It sounds like it's a medicinewhere you would like have a longing
for something that's fleeting orsomething like that, but I have no idea

Chris (02:25:48):
that is from scanners and it's been a while since I've seen
it, but I feel like it's therelike Thalidomide equivalent where
like, yeah, the pregnant women.
Yeah.
They talk about the

George (02:25:58):
scanner cop too.
. Yes.
I mean, as well my, well probablyin scanner cop two too, but

Yeah, that's, that's the med that the, the pregnant women took.
Mm-Hmm.
. And then it caused allthe scanners, right?
That's right.
I think so.

Chris (02:26:12):
Yep.
Alright.
Three to two.
Still in anyone's game, butwe only have two left uhoh.
See, I

ran outta steam here.
I got the low hanging ones.
After that.
I'm
. George: Here's, here's where I overtake and win.

Chris (02:26:24):
Yep.
Super cool.
Uh oh.
You're not gonna, I don't think eitherof you are gonna get this one, so.
No.
That is from Upright Citizen's Brigade.
Wow.
Gotcha.
And the final one, George totie, and then I'll have to come
up with Tiebreaker off the dome.
Final, final fictional pharmaceutical is.

(02:26:47):
Adrenochrome.
George.
George.

George (02:26:52):
Uh, it's in the Viagra Boys song called Adrenochrome.

Chris (02:26:57):
Sorry, that is incorrect.

What?
Yeah.
It is technically correct.
Again, I know I've heard this.
I just, I, I have no idea.
I mean, besides, isn't that what, uh,all the, uh, conspiracy theories are?
Yeah, for legit people.
It is.
It is also that.

Chris (02:27:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.

I have no idea.

Chris (02:27:14):
Fear and loathing in Las Vegas.
Yeah.
So, our champion is Brantleywith a score of 3 2.
Wow, hey.

George (02:27:20):
Congratulations, Brantley.
Uh, I hope you get help for the,uh, pill addiction that you have,
that is clearly demonstrated byyour familiarity with all these

medicines.
Thank you, George.
We're all really worried about

George (02:27:32):
you.
And, uh, this was our way of breakingit, breaking open the conversation.
So.

Thank you.
You know what?
And I'm going to take a long, hard lookin the mirror and Wonder how I somehow
pulled off that victory knowing so littleabout fictional drugs, but that's all

George (02:27:46):
we ask

Chris (02:27:47):
Addiction to zygote 24 has affected me in the following way.
Yes.

George (02:27:51):
Yes.
Go off.
Go off Chris.
Tell him speak on that

Chris (02:27:55):
well, so yeah, I was a kakidama and Biotherapy, thank you guys for coming
on and breathing life into this diddead format with me and Tell the fine
folks out there where you can find youand anything you've got in the works

Uh, I'll go real quick.
Uh, you can, uh, listen to the horrordress podcast, um, which every once in a
while puts out an episode, you can checkout my movie, everything to entertain
you, the story of video headquarters.
Um, hopefully that's streaming in someplaces that you can find it, or you can
grab the Blu ray from vinegar syndrome, orif you are loving a dead format, you can

(02:28:33):
still get the VHS from lunch meat, VHS.
com.
Yeah.
And, uh, if you want to listen to anyof the research I do, you can listen
to the with Gourley and Russ podcast,but, uh, that's really about it.
I'm going to now throw it to Georgecause he's got much more, uh, bigger
and better fun things to promote.
So go for it, George.
Not

George (02:28:49):
true.
I was, I'm going to throw my plugbehind Brantley's plug, uh, go
check out everything entertain you.
Very fun documentary.
I enjoyed it a lot.
I'm looking forward to the next one.
Um, if you want to listen tomore conversation between me
and Chris or me and Brantley.
The episodes of The Best LittleHorror House in Philly exist for

(02:29:10):
you to go listen to still for now.
Uh, I did, I just got chargedagain by my podcast host for
another annual subscription, soit's up for at least another year.
So you have, you have that time.
But, uh, yeah, uh, Brantleyand I talked about The Hitcher,
so you can check that out.
Uh, Chris and I talked aboutIt's Alive and It's Alive 3.

(02:29:30):
Uh, It's Alive, uh, very fun episode,but, uh, very early in the podcast life.
So podcast was still kind of finding itsfeet, but definitely encourage you to
check that out and then check out the, uh,It's Alive 3 episode, which, uh, is right
towards the end, so fully on the feet asit were, and, uh, and a very, very fun

(02:29:50):
exploration of that movie and, uh, ourbeloved Larry Cohen and Michael Moriarty.
So check that out.
Beautiful.
Who cares?
It's dead.
Show doesn't matter

anymore.
Name the live finale you did.
Yeah, that's Check outthat big finale episode.

George (02:30:05):
Uh, yeah.

It was, yeah.

George (02:30:08):
Sure.
Roar.
It was fun.
Fun.
It was a good ep.
I enjoyed it.
I like that movie a lot.
It's crazy.
Cats.
They filmed around cats.
That's crazy.
They shouldn't do that.
Don't do that.
Don't film around wild animals.

Chris (02:30:21):
Don't.
Well, yeah, so on on behalf ofBrantley and, uh, George, I'm Chris.
This has been Dead Formats.
If you have any questions about theshow or if you have a Dead Format
topic that you'd like to hear me cover,or if you have any suggestions for
potential guests, please reach out.
You can email me atdeadformatspod at gmail.

(02:30:42):
com Or you can reach out to meon Instagram at deadformatspod
Thanks for listening!

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Are You A Charlotte?

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Gakidama (1985) & Biotherapy (1986) with Brantley and George

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Are You A Charlotte?

Dateline NBC

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

Gakidama (1985) & Biotherapy (1986) with Brantley and George

Are You A Charlotte?