Phantasm: Revision (2016) with Bones and DK

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
DK (00:12):
Well, I just want to briefly talk about this, because I think that these
are the right people to tell about it.
I don't know how his name is pronouncedyet, but you guys are going to know,
I think, what I'm talking about.
The Don Dohler movies?
Is it Dohler or Dohler?

Chris (00:24):
I've just, I've never heard anyone actually say it,
so I just assumed it was Dohler.
Okay, I think it's Dohler.

DK (00:31):
One of them was in Mystery Science Theater long ago, and I saw that one.
I didn't really have any context.
I've gone through the first half of hisfilmography, and I am in heaven right now.

Chris (00:44):
Have you seen those?
I've seen one that has like a kind ofnice little connection to the movies
We'll be talking about later on.
Was it called like the alienfactor the one that has like
that monkey looking alien?
Fuck yes Yeah, I think that'sthe only one I've seen.

DK (01:00):
Yes Good though.
There's, there's this thing about theseDon Dolar movies where he makes one
movie over and over, they're all thesame movie and he uses the same actors.
Like Neil Breen.
It's like, it's honestly,it's proto Breen.
You're not wrong.
And he'll use the same actors and you'dthink movie to movie, like you'd be able

(01:25):
to see him progress and get better andmake better choices and different choices.
No, not at all.
It's wild.
And they be, they've become like thiscomfortable thing where it's like,
okay, let's go to the next dollar.
Oh, there's the scientist, there's theguy, there's the biker guy, like they're,
it's just the same guys every time.
The only one that's a littledifferent so far is Fiend from 1980.

(01:48):
And I really enjoyed Fiend.
I would love
a Fiend remake with Matt Berry as the Fiend.
That's, that's my two cents.
Michael Shannon.
Oh, I want him as the tall man.
Spoilers.
He can, he can be both.
He could be the feed baby.
I highly recommend if you, I mean,watch all these Don Duller movies

(02:10):
cause they're great, but the fiendI'm just still thinking about it
has been a couple of days now.
So that's usually a good sign.

Chris (02:17):
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've been, uh, watching a bunch ofthings that honestly aren't very good.
Uh, but you know, dead heat body parts.
I threw in there, which has been coveredon at least one of our shows or I
finally saw Christine for the first time.
Did you like it?
Uh, I loved it.

(02:38):
I would put it towards the topof the carpenter films I've seen.
That's actually like the lastcanonically good carpenter film
that I hadn't seen And I just neverwatched it because it honestly
didn't seem very interesting to me.
I totally get

DK (02:51):
it.
Absolutely.
I have a friend who was, I was like,dude, we've got to watch Christine.
He's like, I'm not watching a car movie.
It's a killer car movie.
I don't think so.

Chris (02:59):
I love car movies though.
Before whatever reason, I'm justlike, I don't care about Christine.
Right.
But once you see it on fire, chasingpeople down the urine, have you seen this

DK (03:09):
Rangers too?
No.
A great Christine reference, a greatChristine reference in this Rangers too.
I think this Rangers too is good.
I'm here to go to bat for that movie.
It's a good, it's a good slasher.
It's like, it's like a carpenter movie.
It's like what if carpentermade a different strangers movie
and I like it better than thefirst strangers kind of by a lot

Chris (03:28):
I I mean I did not like the first one.
I just I was trying to be nice.
I agree You blow a oneto nothing shotgun lead.
I mean you're right

Bones (03:39):
now.

DK (03:40):
You're

Bones (03:40):
just right.
I still have Was it In the Mouth ofMadness and Village of the Damned left
of like his, you know, pre vampire?

Chris (03:50):
So, Village of the Damned is not canonically good.
Everybody seems to fuckinghate that movie, but I love it.
It's not bad.
It's fine.
It was one of those, like, it'son TBS or TNT or USA all the time.
So I watched it a lot growingup and, uh, I like it.
Everyone shits on it, but, youknow, Christopher Reeve, Mark

(04:12):
Hamill, yeah, it's a good movie.
Alright,

Bones (04:17):
but, uh, Christine, it weirdly feels, like, every time I've
seen it, it seems like Carpenter'smost, like, character driven movie.

Chris (04:26):
I would absolutely agree with that.

Bones (04:28):
Like, it's like, dude, you're actually kind of good at this, man.
Maybe

Chris (04:32):
that comes from the source material.
But he's working off Stephen King, butI feel that the, have you read the book?
Because I feel the movies better thanthe book, I think, I mean, it's just,
it probably is just a perfect stormbecause a lot of the book adaptations
of Stephen King that are more faithful.
I am kind of like.
What are we doing here?

(04:54):
Hello everyone.
And welcome to dead formats, a moviepodcast where each episode we pilfer the
mausoleum of cinema and resurrect a deadformat in the form of a killer dwarf to
provide us with cheap labor on our barrenred planet or something along those lines.
I'm your host Chris and thisepisode we're going to be discussing

(05:15):
Jorge Torres Torres is fan edit.
Of the Phantasm franchise,Phantasm Revision.
Today, I'm joined by two veryspecial guests who may or may
not have died in a car wreck.
It's a hell of a way to start a trio.
Bones, DK, welcome.
How are you guys doing this evening?

Bones (05:33):
Doing great.

Chris (05:35):
Fantastic, but

DK (05:36):
it's spelled P H A.

Bones (05:38):
Yeah.
And I've never died in a car wreck.
Now, I, I do flip a car every five years.

Chris (05:46):
Yeah, well But I walk

Bones (05:47):
away every time.

Chris (05:49):
People see you post on Facebook and ask themselves, Wait,
didn't he die in a car wreck?

Bones (05:55):
Just flipped it.
Every once in a while they blow up.
Every

Chris (05:59):
once

Bones (06:00):
in a while.

Chris (06:00):
I thought that only happened in the movies, Bones.
Shit.
You, uh, Bones, you are one thirdof the Five Day Rentals podcast,
and DK, you are one half of Nerds,Geeks, and the Kitchen Sink.
Please, fellas, tell the listenersa little about what you guys do.

DK (06:16):
Uh, boy, we, we talk about the, your Marvel movies, and
your comic books, and your, youknow, I do a lot of horror stuff.
I cover a lot of, itreally is the kitchen sink.
Like I kind of coverwhatever the hell I want.
So, uh, you get a lot of that stuff.
We do tend to cover all the bigmovies that come out in the year.
Uh, but I, I really do focus on the horrorstuff and kind of deal with my co hosts

(06:38):
just talking about Disney all the time.
So it's an interesting mix.
Uh, but, uh, the real good showhere is five day rentals bones,

Bones (06:47):
please, please.
Uh, yeah, like you said, onethird, um, I would say I'm the.
The Earth of 5DR.
Dan, maybe the air.
Cron, the fire.
Um, I thought you were going with planets.
Nah, because there's apart that's nowhere close.

(07:09):
Um, yeah, we're, you know, three whiteguys talking about movies, but try to
put our own little spin on it, you know?
Uh, my joke the whole time has beenthat it's never been about the movies.
But, uh,

Chris (07:24):
I mean,

Bones (07:24):
I wouldn't

Chris (07:25):
say that's a joke.
I would say it's a fact.
I have watched maybe one or two moviesbased on listening to your show and
I've listened to every single episode.
So it's a great show.
It's a show that I haveto listen to every week.
I have to.
It's great.
Yeah, it's a, it's a must.
So, as I mentioned, I've brought thesetwo on here to talk about phantasm
revision, which is all five films.

(07:47):
In the phantasm franchise editeddown into one 90 minute film.
So it should go without sayingthat by necessity, there are
going to be spoilers for all fivefilms throughout this discussion.
But before we got into that, I wascurious, what are your histories
with the phantasm franchise?
And we'll let, I'll let you start DK.

(08:09):
Cause you probably have the longest one.

DK (08:11):
I'll make it brief.
Uh, I saw it.
Um, I don't know what year, but Isaw it with a friend pretty young.
And it really affected me in a great way.
I, I was scared.
I was, it was kind oflike sci fi in some way.
I was trying to figure out like,what the hell did I just see?
It starts with boobs, like it'sgot everything you want, right?

(08:33):
Lots of blood, uh, a mysterythat is just really interesting.
Seared into my brain forever is Reggieputting his hands over the, the forks and
just that hum in the white room and justtrying to figure out, like, what is this?
Like, who, how did you, how,how did this even happen?
So for me, top franchise, onlysecond to probably Evil Dead for me.

(08:56):
Phantasm.
I have the box set right here.
I'm a huge fan.
Uh, yeah, I just, Irewatched them all the time.
They're just always on.
They're my comfort movies.
Reggie Bannister has beendone a disservice by history.
He needs to be celebrated asmuch as Bruce Campbell, at least.
Um, the Ash character.
I just, I could not say enough and I couldtalk all day and we might, we might do

(09:18):
that about Phantasm and why it's the best.
Um, so yes, um, humble beginningsin my friend's basement, uh, to now.
Beautiful bones

Bones (09:30):
franchise.
I was kind of aware of, I just thoughtit was something like a candy man or a
wishmaster, um, sort of lower shelf horrorthat, you know, they would pop out one
every, every few years really couldn't,really couldn't tell you anything
about it until, you know, uh, DK andI started to kind of cycle around each

(09:55):
other for a while, and then, you know,slowly our orbits got closer and closer.
And then he realized like, wow, hereally likes this fucking thing.
And, uh, and he would, he would,uh, the first time we hung out,
like he mentioned like, dude, yougotta, you gotta, um, all right.
All right.
Um, so much so that he did the Reggietouching the When I dropped him off, you

(10:20):
know, there was the security, you know,like the security, like pyres or whatever.
Um, he grabbed two of them andshook like, this'll make sense
in a week when you watch it.
Uh, so I checked it out, hada, had an absolute blast.
And when it was time for fiveto do a season two box set, I

(10:40):
pitched it and pushed it and.
I was so happy to watch it and gothrough it, but equally as mad that
I had gone this far into my lifewithout experiencing it because it.
It taps into just the absolute, just throweverything that you can, what is in your
head at the time of writing this script.

(11:01):
The nostalgia is nuts.
So, this was, as frustrating asthis edit might have been, it was
just such a blast to, to go through.
And I would actually argue, Ithink I'm taking Reggie over Ash

DK (11:17):
in terms of, that doesn't hurt me.

Chris (11:19):
Yeah.
So I agree with you in some ways.
I think army of darknessalone puts Ash ahead.
Okay.
I think just that one is good enough.
It's just, it's just that Reggiehasn't been given the chances.
That's what I'm saying.
He has more movies.
He's give it been given five chances.

DK (11:37):
Yeah, but he's not the lead really until even part two.

Chris (11:42):
I don't know.
We can get into it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So.
My first encounter with Phantasm is, uh,there was a DVD released in 2001 that
was called, uh, Boogeymen, the killercompilation, and what this was was
just a DVD that had, like, individualscenes from a bunch of horror movies.

(12:03):
And one of those was Phantasm.
It was the scene where the, we getour first, the, the caretaker guy
gets drained by the silver ball.
And it ended with a mic cuttingoff the tall man's fingers.
But I didn't actually sit down and watchthe movie until way, way later, probably
like when I was in my mid twenties or so.

(12:25):
And then it's very convenientthat I have exact dates for this
because September 24th, 2016,the 4k restoration hits theaters.
So I went and saw that.
And then shortly after that, Ifound out that phantasm ravager was
coming to theaters on October 7th.
So we spent the weekend before that, uh,watching the other four so that we could

(12:49):
understand what was going on in Ravager.
So I've seen that one in theaters as well.
And I thought it was a veryinteresting series, but I haven't
really had the opportunity torevisit it until now because.
My significant other hates itbecause of having to watch all
of them in such rapid succession.

(13:10):
So, I mean, this in preparationfor this was the only the second
time that I've seen four and five.
The first time I sawthose was eight years ago.

DK (13:25):
Doing them all at once could be tough.
I totally agree.
If it's not your thing, maybe tobegin with, or if it's just too much.
I completely get that.

Chris (13:33):
It

DK (13:33):
is a lot.
Yeah.
And particularly the natureof this franchise where things
seem to be repeating and thencanceling over each other.
And then we say this, but then yousee this and I, I completely get it.

Chris (13:47):
Yeah.

DK (13:47):
So

Bones (13:49):
and suffered recasting and who's available and is what money do they have?
Sure.
You know, it's makes for a bummer.

Chris (13:59):
Yeah.
I, I wish I remembered more aboutthe specific experience of seeing.
Cuz Ravager has to be like the lowestbudgeted movie that I've ever seen
in an actual movie theater I wish Iremembered more about like her instant
reaction to seeing like basicallya direct to DVD movie in theaters.

(14:20):
The reaction to seeing a horse get bit.
Drained.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
I mean, I watched this a couple timesthis week, so on Letterboxd now, my most
watched films are Phantasm, Scent of aWoman, Billy Madison, and Phantasm III.
Oh, hell yeah.
Bookended.

(14:40):
I, I'm wondering, DK, since youare the, uh, the Phantasm Sherpa,
the Jody of the trio, if you will,in the Phantasm fandom, is there.
Like a canonical ranking of thesefilms, like, you know, back when Star
Wars was just the original trilogy.
It was Empire, StarWars, Return of the Jedi.

(15:01):
If you said anything other thanthat, people looked at you weird.
Is there really such a thing for that with

DK (15:06):
Phantasm?
For sure, Phantasm.
Uh, it's 1, 2, 4, 3, 5.
I think that's what mostpeople will agree on.
So 5.
But that is not my ranking.
Just so we're clear.

Bones (15:23):
You put 4 second, right?

DK (15:25):
I go Phantasm 1, Phantasm 4, Phantasm 2, 5, 3.
Bones,

Chris (15:32):
if you remember.

Bones (15:34):
Uh, so after watching this the first time a few days
ago, I revisited, uh, my big listrankings to make sure, like, And
I think I go in order of release.
What I can tell you is what youdo see of three in this revision.

(15:54):
I was like, damn,

DK (15:55):
I

Bones (15:55):
kind of want to go back and watch three again.

DK (15:58):
Um, even, even what might be considered the worst one apart
from five has some amazing shit.

Bones (16:04):
Yeah, and then I remember listening to you on Nerds Geeks
DK talking about like, I thinkone week you'd watched four twice.
Yeah, and when you you unveiled tothe world like I'm moving up four.
It was like a big deal.
So when I went to re watchfour, I was like, all right, I
got to put the DK goggles on.

(16:25):
Sure.
And there's there's somecharacter stuff there.
Yeah, I think unfortunately it inmy perception of it where it seems
Not super linear, but relativelylinear in understanding phantasm
for does some interesting flipsback that I think 5 unfortunately

(16:46):
builds on in the wrong, wrong way.
You know?

Chris (16:51):
Yeah, I think I would probably agree with that.
I think without 4, it makes evenless sense than it already does.
It's, it's the only thing thatholds all five movies together.

DK (17:04):
And so there is this in the fandom that, you know, for quite a while,
four was the last one and it is kindof an okay ending to the whole thing.
So five is sort of consideredto be just for fun.
Um, and I.
Well, I was gonna I'll say this later.
I'm saving this.
Nevermind.
That's where I'm gonna endthat statement right now.

Chris (17:25):
Okay So, I mean mine might be controversial.
I go one four five three two Ithink that two is the worst, huh?
But I also have to say that other thanthe first one those other four slots could
change Get on whatever day it is becauseI don't think they're that far apart.
Tell me why two's

DK (17:44):
at

Chris (17:44):
the bottom.
I So I think a big part of it isDuring this last watch through
because that one I've seen probablythe second most other than the first
I think not having Mike in it Hurts.
I don't like, like there's nothing, Idon't want to say James Legro does a bad

(18:05):
job, but there's nothing he does that Mikecouldn't have done a thousand percent.
And I know that it wasn't really theirdecision to like, Hey, fuck you, Mike.
But it's still, I think it hurts once youhave more of an attachment to the series.
So when I first watched it, I probablywould have put two higher, but this last

(18:25):
watch through, I wasn't a huge fan of it.
And then I think.
Watching three again, once your use,like, two gets you into that new tone
that it takes for those two movies,once I've settled into that tone, I
usually hate fucking kids in movies.
Tim's pretty fucking cool.

Bones (18:44):
Yeah.

Chris (18:45):
He kills a lot of

DK (18:46):
people.
He does.
Um, now is probably a goodtime for me to bring this up.
Fiction.
Fiction.
Have you read it?
No.
I know

Chris (18:57):
it

DK (18:57):
just

Chris (18:57):
came out pretty recently.

DK (18:59):
Yes, um, there is an entire chapter, and I'll reference this book a couple
times, I won't spoil too much, um,but there is an entire chapter just
about Tim, you can see his mask there,and then his like M80s, um, basically
you get a full backstory on Tim,which, Actually, it's pretty cool.

(19:22):
And like that reading that chapter ofthe book made me go, maybe Tim's okay.
Um, there is some interestingthing that happens to him.
And you find that he's notjust, let me put it this way.
It seems like Costco really wanted tostart over almost instead of resuming

(19:43):
the story with Mike and Jody and, andReggie, it almost feels like he wanted
to do another phantasm one, but Withtim as the main character tim is like
the jean paul valley something like that

Chris (19:55):
reggie's batman

DK (19:56):
Yes, but it didn't quite work that way.
Um for whatever reason but um CoscarelliClearly likes tim a lot and he he kind
of says like phantasm was always aboutkind of a child's nightmare Thing right
so it made sense to go back to a kid'sperspective And yeah, i'm not saying
it's going to blow your mind if you readthis, but it is interesting and if people

(20:19):
don't like tim You This might help youa little bit appreciate The Tim stuff?

Chris (20:24):
Yeah.
I mean, I would also say that, withas many problems as Ravager has,
I think the thing that stings themost is, Chunk should have been Tim.
There's no reason, I mean,no, like, story reason.
I'm sure there werereal life reasons, but,

DK (20:40):
could have had Tim in there.
You're totally right.
Would have been a glorious return.
And did you notice the name ofthe chapter was He Was Home Alone?
Yeah, Home Alone reference.

Chris (20:49):
Nice.
You're in trouble.
Yeah, that's like all of that should haveannoyed me But it didn't and I don't know
why just like I think in the series ingeneral I should hate it, but I don't
because usually I hate things where theplot is Like the, the creators seem almost
ambivalent to telling a coherent story.

(21:09):
It's a huge problem I have with alot of Italian films and Lynch, but
for some reason here, it's like,Hey, I love a couple Lynch movies.
People

DK (21:22):
might hear this careful with the Lynch.

Bones (21:24):
Chris, that's an excellent way to put it actually,
because I feel really strong.
And I'm trying to find like, Anotheranalogy or comparison for that,
you know, it's like, I wanted tosay like, uh, it's like Thai food.
Like there's, there's like weird littlethings in Thai food or Chinese food.
It's like, I won't eat the little cornson their own, but for some reason,

(21:49):
like it being in that mixture, likethat stir fry, it all works together.
And I'm like, okay, I'm here for it.
And I love that little tiny fucking corn.

Chris (22:00):
Hey, I mean, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah, no, I mean,I totally get that.

Bones (22:06):
And.
One thing I do enjoy about thefranchise is for the most part, every
movie is it has its own stink to it.

Chris (22:16):
Yeah.

Bones (22:17):
And without, there is no thread to lose in phantasm.
Like, and maybe that makes itall the more better, you know?

Chris (22:29):
Yeah, definitely.
I think part of it is also like the firstone, um, It's so outlandish that it's not,
it's not based in any sort of reality.
So you're not like you can turn off thatlogical side of your brain where you're
trying to poke holes in it because itdoesn't make any sense in the first place.

(22:49):
It's a guy turning people intodwarves for almost no reason because
of the gravity, their planet.

DK (22:59):
I think the phrase nightmare logic is probably best applied to that.
And, uh, It makes sense, but Ithink a lot of creators want to try
to hide behind that as an excuse.
I don't think Phantasm does,at least the first one doesn't.

Chris (23:14):
Right.

DK (23:15):
Um, I think it really works.
I mean, sure.
You're bumping into him being anew filmmaker and, you know, all
the constraints that they had.
Yeah.
But what you do end up with isI think you guys will agree.
It's an absolute miracle.

Chris (23:33):
Yeah.
No, I mean, wasn't it filmedover the course of like two
years or something like that?

DK (23:38):
Yeah.
And Don's like 20 orsomething in this point.

Chris (23:41):
Yeah.
I mean it, it, the staying powerof it is incredible considering the
circumstances and it's a Testamentto the Don and our three main leads.
So yeah, as, as I mentioned, uh,
Phantasm revision is a fan edit,which is not really a dead format,

(24:02):
which is the focus of the show.
In fact, it's probably a more thrivingcommunity now than it was ever before,
but it's still kind of somethingthat I associate with those old days
of VHS is because I think with theproliferation of alternate cuts, we
sort of have an embarrassment of riches.
I mean, I mentioned that I hada compilation DVD of scenes from

(24:26):
different movies, which is just.
That would never happen today becauseit's a completely pointless thing to
have when you have YouTube and theinternet, but I remember back in the
day you would hear about these thingslike, Oh, you gotta, you gotta see
the producer's cut of Halloween six.
It's so good.
And the only way you could getthose was if you knew someone that

(24:47):
had it, or if you like went to ahorror convention and bought like a.
Copy of a copy of acopy of a copy of a VHS.
Um, so I mean, are sort of likethese fan edits or alternate cuts.
Is that something eitherof you are really into

DK (25:04):
for sure?
With, with the things that I lovewith like with army of darkness,
all the different versions.
And I know there's that I haven't seenit yet, but there's this like work print
of evil dead two that's going around.
Have you seen this?
No, I haven't.
I just read about it for the first timeand I was like, yeah, give me that.
Um, it's pretty interesting.
Yeah.
I do.
It was one of those things wherewhen I first got into horror, part

(25:28):
of one of the movies that firstgot me into it was the exorcist.
Well, the version that I startedwith was the version you've never
seen, which is an alternate version.
And so when I was doing all thisresearch, trying to make myself not
scared anymore because the moviescared the shit out of me, I found,
oh, there's all these differences andthis and this and they changed this.
And I was so interested by the process.
And why would they change it and why thisand why that, that anytime there was that

(25:52):
to be found, anytime that informationwas there, I was all over it for sure.

Chris (25:56):
Yeah.
Quick, quick side story aboutthe version you've never seen.
That's like the 25thanniversary one, right?
I think so.
Yeah.
So when that came back into theaters,uh, we went and saw it and I
was probably like, Eleven or so.
And on the car ride there, my parentsvery somberly explained to me that
this movie is about real thingsthat can really happen to you.

(26:19):
So that Ha ha ha!
I would definitely rankit as one of the scariest

DK (26:23):
movies I've ever seen.
Well, that's funny because my mom kind ofdid a similar thing, but she kind of She
kind of set the trap and I fell into it.
She rented it.
The VHS, and she's like, oh, I left amovie in there, I think you might like
it, we're going out for the night,you should check that movie out, and
she basically put me in a room andsaid, watch the actresses while we're

(26:43):
gone, and I felt, uh, like I neededto call someone, some protective
services or something, holy shit.

Chris (26:52):
Man, I bet they laughed about that over dinner.
Yeah, chump ass kid is homealone watching The Exorcist.
Yep

Bones (27:01):
Quick is producers cut of Halloween six runes or no runes runes, isn't it?

Chris (27:07):
I think they both have them, but I think the producers cut I don't remember
I'm not even gonna try to attempt.
Okay to talk about it.
I think

DK (27:17):
it's

Chris (27:17):
I

DK (27:17):
think it's

Chris (27:17):
more rune

DK (27:18):
heavy

Chris (27:18):
Yeah, it's more rune heavy and I think it's more Um, sexual assault heavy.

DK (27:25):
That is correct.
And it's, is that the, Idon't think it's in both where
Loomis has the mark at the end.
That's producer Scott, right?
I think that's only producer Scott.

Chris (27:34):
Okay.
A guy that literally has thattattoo should probably know this.
You're in

Bones (27:39):
the cult.
All right.
Uh, I might have like kind of asidestep E politician answer here.
I can't recall sort of,
you know, a collection basededit group thing, um, for feature

(27:59):
films really as growing up.
I can tell you for some reason wehad this time life for VHS collection
that was like history of comedy.
That was nothing, that was nothingbut like, um, just like classic
little segments from like, thisis your life and Sid Caesar stuff.

(28:21):
And, uh, you know.
Uh, Bob Hope, so that sort of put, like,all these, like, nuggets of comedy guys
forever, and then, so, I know all thisweird stuff about 50s through 70s, like,
sitcoms that I've never seen, but I knowall the catchphrases, and I know all
this stuff, that was something that Ijust watched over and over because it

(28:44):
was, I don't want to watch Indiana Jones,so let me just throw this in because
I've watched Indiana Jones and the lastcrusade 10 times already this month.
Let me just throw this in.
Um, when it comes to alternative cuts,uh, I can tell you that it, it does kind
of affect me sometimes like Michael Mann.

(29:05):
I have never seen black hat whenblack hat was released theatrically.
I was not, it was very difficultbecause of the job that I worked
at the time to get to the theaterand by the time it came out, it had
been shat upon and then the rumorsof, well, he's got an alternate cut.
And then I thought, well, giventhe Miami vice director's cut, let

(29:26):
me just wait until this comes out.
And now anytime I sit down to watch it.
I start black hat and then Igo, wait, which cut is this?
And I Google, what are thedifferences in the cut?
And then I realized like, oh,it's not the director's cut.
And then you listen to another podcastand they'll say, I actually prefer the
theatrical cut to the director's cut.
And it creates this sort of stress.

(29:47):
It's like, this is not even worth it.

Chris (29:50):
Yeah, no, I totally, that's me and blade runner.
I obsessed over which cut I wasgoing to watch and then I, which
one you have to try to defend.
I was like, well, I mean, I thought itwas kind of boring, so I don't really have
to defend the movie, but it was like, Iput myself through way too much anxiety
over which cut of Blade Runner I'm goingto watch because that was a year's long.

(30:12):
And then finally, I'mlike, all right, fuck it.
Whichever one I can download,that's the one I'm watching.
So I know DK, you were familiar with thisbefore I reached out to you, but bones,
what were you thinking when I said, Fivephantasm films cut down to 90 minutes.
What was your first reaction to that?

Bones (30:32):
My reaction was, wow, sounds great.
Maybe they will give methe definitive timeline.
Then I thought, well, damn, I really liketo, how is he going to navigate this?
And then I thought, wow, thereare dramatic visual differences

(30:54):
between the first and the last.
Is this going to work in itsfavor from a timeline perspective?
And then it became a, uh, sort ofa, Hey, don't black hat yourself.
Just watch it.
Like, don't stress.
Um, so I can't tell you like whenit started and it opens with, uh,

(31:14):
him on the highway and four, Ithought, okay, it seems like this
guy knows, knows what he's doing.
He's going to fold.
He's going to fold this baby in.
And then after 25 minutes of stillbeing on one, I thought, Oh, something's
going to get a little short changed.
Yeah.

Chris (31:29):
Yeah, so I mean, this guy has Jorge Torres Torres.
He's a filmmaker in his own right, buthe's also done this for Friday the 13th
and Death Wish and maybe a few others.
Um, I think I have thought of doing asimilar thing with Death Wish before,
just because Charles Bronson playsthe same character in every movie.

(31:51):
Yeah, not just Death Wish movie,but every single movie he's in.

DK (31:54):
Yeah, put some 10 to Midnight in there.
Why not?

Chris (31:56):
Yeah Yeah, so what this guy did is he took footage from 250 Charles
Bronson films or TV appearances and editit down to what he calls the Death Wish.
How much man

DK (32:09):
with a camera is in there?
That's

Chris (32:11):
probably the the prequel flashback.
Like, would you believeI've seen an entire show?
Oh, I would.

DK (32:17):
I

Chris (32:17):
have a Bronson problem.
Yeah, me too.
I haven't ventured that far, but

Bones (32:25):
so when are we covering that one?
Does that be in a few weeks?
Cause I'd like to go ahead and put that

Chris (32:31):
man with the camera.

Bones (32:32):
No, I'm saying when are we going to do this?
The death wish?
Yeah.
The three of us, the

Chris (32:37):
crew, the exact crew to do that.

Bones (32:39):
Yeah.

Chris (32:39):
Is it just scenes of him murdering people?
That is what I'm led to understand,which is what Death Wish is, just
scenes of him murdering people.
It starts out, oh, my new girlfriendwas, uh, sexually assaulted.
That's the story.
Every time.
That kills people.
You son of a bitch.

(33:01):
There's, so I have this echolaliawith one line from 10 to midnight,
which is not even like a cool line orlike badass or something that would
stick out to people, but I'd randomlyin the day, I'll just say to myself.
That Dave Daunt's not alawyer, he's a shyster.
I thought it was

DK (33:20):
pie.
I love that.

Bones (33:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I will, like, if I kick my catoff the counter or something, I
then say, Do you always violatepeople's constitutional rights?
Like

DK (33:37):
so good.
So what's the one?
Is it Murphy's law?
He's like, can you count to five?
How'd you like to try it with no teeth?

Chris (33:46):
I Think so.
I just watched that onenot that long ago, but oh

Bones (33:50):
Surely you guys have seen messenger of death the

Chris (33:53):
Mormon one.
Yeah.
Oh

Bones (33:54):
my god I watched that within the last two years and there's a scene
in that with the old dude crying overthe the kids That fuckin got me, dude.
And then there's a part where Bronsonholds up his, uh, paper, and he's
like, I did a story on the massacre.
And the way he's like,

(34:17):
Chuck, let's do another,let's not be so excited.
For the one time that you're excited.

Chris (34:24):
Yeah.
Also, the one time where he's a journalistand not some form of law enforcement.
Yeah.
Sure.
Yeah.
Well, I'm sure we could sit hereand quote Charles Bronson for God
knows how long, but what do you saywe just attempt to get into this?
All right.
Let's do it.
It's going to be a weird one togo through beat by beat, but we're

(34:46):
going to try our best on this.
So the film opens with an ominousdrone over a black screen.
We hear the voice of adult Mike playedby Michael Baldwin and all of the
films, except for the second one.
Where he was replaced by JamesLeGrow, which I mentioned earlier.
He asks, Where are you, brother?

(35:07):
What's become of you?
We then cut to what may be thequintessential phantasm scene taken from
the first film, as Reggie joins Jody foran impromptu porch jam session in 1979.
We get a close up of Reggie stoppingthe vibrations of a tuning fork by
placing his finger on each prong.

(35:28):
And guys, is there any Better way thatthey could have possibly opened to
this other than the porch jam session.

DK (35:38):
I mean, it's a comfortable scene It is weirdly Representative of what's to come
it is it is a good way to start for sure.
It's hot as love
Yeah,

Chris (35:49):
so good.
We get our title screen phantasm revision,which I believe is taken is an edited
version Of Phantasm IV, Oblivion.
We see adult Mike, in 1988, infootage also taken from Oblivion.
Driving a hearse down a desert road,in voiceover he says, Reggie, I've been

(36:12):
moving southeast for three days now.
I know he's behind me somewhere.
Don't try to come after me.
There's very little leftalive out here anymore.
The towns have all been abandoned.
Do you remember our old town?
That last perfect day before he cameand, uh, see some scenes from the second
and third movie of abandoned townsbefore flashing back to a scene that was

(36:35):
originally filmed for the first phantasmthat was not actually used until being
featured in phantasm four as a flashback.
Child Mike hops on the back of Reggie'sice cream truck, commits some petty
theft, steals a fudgicle, and Reggiegives a knowing smirk in the side mirror.

(36:55):
So, my next question is that, if theporch scene is the most iconic Phantasm
scene, is this ice cream truck scene themost pointless scene in all of Phantasm?

DK (37:10):
Do you want me to tell you what the most pointless scene is?
Okay, hang on.

Chris (37:13):
Hey, if this isn't it,

DK (37:15):
yeah.
I'm sure there's something in five.

Bones (37:19):
Can I point out what I think is going to be difficult in this is keeping
it restrained to the edit versus all five,

DK (37:28):
because

Bones (37:32):
all five kind of a pointless scene, this edit, I think it's
very important to establish.
Their connection because in myrecollection of the edit, they
don't have much engagement.
You don't see him at the house reallywith Mike, you don't get the, him showing
up right as the, the bug in the sink.

DK (37:55):
Do you not see Reg until the mausoleum later?
Is that right?
After this?

Chris (38:01):
Um, I think immediately after this is the scene of, uh, Reggie and
Jody meeting in front of the mausoleum.

Bones (38:09):
The classic step into frame.

Chris (38:12):
Yeah,

Bones (38:12):
I

Chris (38:14):
think that's a really good point, Bones, and I hadn't
thought of that, of like, themotivation behind including it here.
I think that's a very good explanation,but I will say, When it appears in
Phantasm IV, it is much longer andit definitely, that is the one part
of IV where I'm like, this kindof feels like padding for runtime.

(38:38):
Well, we had the footage, you know.
Yeah.
Like, why do we need to see this?

Bones (38:43):
It's set up in a way because Mike is sitting there
kind of kicking the ground.
Mm hmm.
Just as Jody.
Rode his bike away, right?
Because it's where he's on that street.
There is a part of me that thinksI would like to see that stitch
together that full thing of.
Jody leaves him, he'salone, Reggie comes by.

DK (39:04):
You see it, I think you see the rest of it later.

Bones (39:07):
Yeah.

DK (39:08):
It's a weird way to cut it.

Bones (39:11):
Yeah, this is gonna be a tricky Cause, cause I can tell
you're like, I'm gonna do it.
Okay, cause, um.
Do it.
I think it should haveopened with him hanging.
Yeah.
I should have, it should have opened withhim setting the whole thing up and the
dialogue of I have a plan, blah blah blah.
You cut back into one, you see somestuff and you introduce tall man

(39:34):
with him coming and saying, Nope.
And then you cut back, you showthe sequence of the tall man
for

Chris (39:41):
sure.
Yeah.
I mean, I do think that most stories beingtold asynchronically don't start from the
beginning by definition sort of right.

Bones (39:52):
Yeah.

DK (39:54):
But bones, I love the, and I know we're jumping ahead, but the cutting
between the tall man and Mike hangingthere, they're onto something there.
Yeah, I think there'ssomething working there.
Yeah.
And I have a theory.
I haven't, it's, it's an oldtheory, sir, but it checks out.
Um, I have a theory that I'vebeen working on for a while.

(40:17):
Maybe Mike is the tall man.
And I know other people havethought this and I kind of watched
this a couple of times through thedifferent lenses of the different
theories and the different whatever.
And I think my favorite way to watchthis is maybe Mike being the tall man.
So as we go through this.
Um, I'm going to point outsome things and the, the dual

(40:39):
hanging scene is part of that.
It's part of that whole thing.
So I liked that those two are together,but I'll, I, I'm not saying you're wrong
showing, starting with the hanging wouldbe really compelling way to start, right?
Hands down.

Chris (40:51):
Yeah.
There are definitely some, someparallels of, they might be the
same person that I picked up on thistime around that I didn't before.

DK (40:59):
I have one mind blowing new one that I have never even, I
can't believe I haven't noticed it.
We'll we'll get there.
Whoa.

Bones (41:06):
Okay.
Well

DK (41:07):
and you guys you guys might not even you probably already know I don't know how
I never thought of it But again, watchingwith this lens, I was like, what the fuck?
We'll, we'll see.
We'll get there.

Bones (41:15):
I'm having a blast by the way.
Uh, I think that's important to pointout when people are having good moods.
Uh,

Chris (41:21):
that's good.
Yeah.
I, you know, as I started literallyfive minutes into this, I was like, I
should have fucking watch this beforeasking them to come on and talk about it.
We'll, we'll get, we'll talk aboutthat a little bit more later.
Um, funeral's about to begin, sir.
See a brief scene of Tommy's funeralaccompanied by some voiceover from Reggie

(41:43):
and Jody about how it was a good ideanot to let Mike come to the funeral since
Mike had had nightmares for weeks afterMike and Jody's, uh, parents funeral.

DK (41:53):
I believe that was an edit.
Um, in the original, I think you seethem having that conversation, they

Chris (41:59):
actually just

DK (41:59):
rip the dialogue out and put it over the funeral.
And I was like, oh, that works

Chris (42:03):
for sure.
Yeah.
And so if you are a psycho whohas never seen any of these
movies and is just listening this.
Mike is Jody's little brother, Reggieis Jody's best friend and an ice
cream man, Tommy was presumably thethird member of the Reg and Jody band.

(42:24):
Think I got that right, although I wasreading that deleted scenes show Jody
working in a bank in the first one.
Which just confuses me,but it's not in here.
So we don't, we don'thave to worry about that.
Can we see child?
Mike riding a motorcycle througha graveyard, which I still
think is an insane thing to do,especially in the middle of the day.

(42:49):
Small shadowy figure is runningaround hiding behind graves.
Child.
Mike goes to a local psychicbecause he's concerned that
Jody will abandon him again.
We get a couple of flashbacks.
Mike tells the psychic that he's afraidbecause he saw something at Morningside
that he wasn't supposed to see.
In another flashback, we see Mike hangingout at the Morningside graveyard where the

(43:13):
tall man single handedly lifts a coffinand puts it in the back of his hearse,
rather than lowering it into the ground.
And then in a scene famously rippeddirectly from Dune, Mike is instructed
by the psychic to put his handinto a box, Which causes him great
physical pain, but once he removeshis hand from the box, he realizes

(43:33):
that the pain was all in his head.
The psychic's granddaughter tellshim that fear is the mind killer,
and the decrepit old psychicwoman is pleased by Mike's pain.
Surely he's not the Kwisatz Haderach.

DK (43:46):
Oh!
Yeah, she had her Gamjabar and everything.
She's ready to go.

Bones (43:50):
Spice.
Spice.
I wanted to get a Dune reference in too.
Spice.
Spice.

DK (43:54):
Spice.
Um, there's some things cut into there,so you get some things from four, um,
cut into when he has his hand in thebox that gives you more context to like
what, what's to come, but also like what,maybe he's having some kind of a vision.

(44:15):
We don't really know, but it's I thinkvision even could be the spice agony.
You, you get some more flavor there inthis, if just specifically to, to bring up
a, uh, the difference in this cut is thatyou get a little bit more flavor there.
Um, when his hand is in the box, andI think it's an interesting choice.

Bones (44:32):
Can I tell you that I, I think, uh, I think you cut these,
I think you cut these sequences.
The whole pain box?
Yeah, I don't think you need thislady, I don't think you need any
of this premonition sort of stuff.
I think you, Uh, I get it inthe context of the first movie.
It adds some, some goofiness to it.

(44:54):
He's obviously inspired by Dune.
Um, this is a whole, and I will sayhe does pepper in the lady when she
pops up in the, in the hearse later,I think I'd maybe take this out.

Chris (45:09):
I think I kind of agree with you because the whole fear
is the mind killer thing is verypertinent to the themes that are more
front and center in the first one.
Um, It's less pertinent toall of the movies after it.
So it's kind of setting up somethingthat doesn't really have a payoff because
we're, we're not watching the first movie.

(45:30):
We're watching all five of them, but

DK (45:34):
I think you could argue that there, okay, this might be going a little,
whatever, when he sees her in the hearsein four, I wonder if that's because
she, when you see the, the grandmother,to me, she represents that statement.
Fear is the killer.
So when you see her, that's supposed tobe Mike going, I shouldn't be afraid.

(45:58):
Why am I afraid?
Like I need to take control.
So when she is in that passenger seat,that's almost like his brain going,
do not be afraid, let's just do this.
So not that it's like a, a plannedpayoff or anything, but to me,
that's like immediately you go,Oh, what is she from that scene?
That's what it means.
So I don't know if that'swhat Cascarelli means.

(46:20):
There's no information that I'veever found, but to me, that's
what she represents is that.
When particularly when she pops up in thedriver's seat or in the passenger seat,

Chris (46:30):
okay So if we're gonna talk about that part, do you know who
the the no face man in the back is?
Is that Jody?
I don't I don't know got a Jody

DK (46:39):
vibe, but it's scary and it's good It's like the scariest
thing in all of them almost it'sreally scary It is like, uh,

Chris (46:47):
it's like Jacob's ladder or

DK (46:48):
something like that

Chris (46:49):
kind of stuff.

DK (46:51):
I had a real thing happen to me that was like that, where I, it was
probably four in the morning and I'mheaded home after a very long night.
And I looked in the back, I lookedin the rearview mirror and I thought
I saw someone in the back seat.
And I.
I felt like I was having a heart attack.
I could not, I couldn't breathe.
It was terrible.
So like, I know the feel ofwhat that feels like exactly.

(47:11):
And so every time I seethat I go, Oh, that's good.
And it's just, the cut is so perfect.
And it does that little movement.
Like you see it twice.
Oh, Cascarelli.

Chris (47:20):
Yeah.
There's something going on with likethe, the frame rate or something at
which they film that, that it givesit almost like a stop motion, a
little bit of a stop motion feel toit and you can only just make it out.
It's it's awesome.
Next.
We see a scene of Mike spying on hisbrother Jody, who, for reasons unknown in
this cut, is boning down a woman on topof a grave in the Morningside Cemetery.

(47:44):
Then, we see Mike in bed, wakingup from a dream, only to be
dragged underground by two of thetall man's zombie looking dudes.
We cut back to, I guess, what isconsidered present day in this cut.
We're back with Phantasm IV adultMike, driving down the desert road.
He's chasing the black dog andnarrowly avoids a head on collision

(48:05):
with a semi truck and guys What areyou thinking about this cut so far?

Bones (48:14):
I mean, I'm into it
Unfortunately, all I'm thinking is I'mseeing a lot of one seeing a lot of
four like I you're cutting into youroverall time and I'm really I'm getting
nervous about that transition because

(48:34):
It's a bummer.
I don't mind the guy who plays Mike in 2.
I don't.
I would have preferred it to be Mike.
Uh, he looks good in 3, man.
He's got killer hair.
Runs up into 4.
He looks great.
Gosh, the poor guy.
When he gets to 5, it'san absolute bummer.
And it doesn't help thatReggie ages really gracefully.

(48:56):
But also by this point, I'm thinking Heyman, are you, are you sticking with Mike?
Because it's about time to startpumping Reggie in here because he, at
a certain point becomes our main guy.
Um, and I think that forces.
It forces it to be a little tighterand his what he get like a five minute

(49:20):
fucking violent montage to introduceReggie Which is a bit of a bummer.

Chris (49:25):
Yeah, so I think I know the answer for you on this Bones is
definitely no, but DK, have youever seen Puppet Master the Legacy?

DK (49:36):
What, which one is that?
Tell me what happens in that one.
I've seen many of them.
It's the one

Chris (49:39):
that's a clip show.
Oh, okay.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So I was very much thinking, isthat where this edit is going?
Where it's just going to beMike driving down the road.
Like, remember the time when Reggiefucked the tall man and then we do a
flashback and then it goes back to Mike.

(49:59):
That was crazy.
It's almost like the time Reggiewelded two shotguns together.
That's, I started to get thatfeel right here, but I was
still on board at this point.

Bones (50:11):
It's family guy spelled with a PH.

DK (50:14):
Well, Bones, when I interrupted you earlier, this
is the thing I was gonna say.
This is a while ago now.
If, and I don't know, maybe you wereplanning to ask us this later, but I
have to feel like I have to say this now.
If I was going to do this, you, I don'tthink you can focus on Mike and Reggie.

(50:36):
I think you have to make a choice.
You can have some Reggie in there, butwe cannot be following Reggie and all
these other things that he's doing.
The clip show of Reggie doing.
We can't have that.
I think you focus on, I think in my edit,there would be a lot of one and four, um,
and certainly not much of two, althoughyou need some of that to get between them.

(50:59):
But, um, I think mine wouldbe mainly one, three and four.
I don't know if I would eventouch much, much of five.
There might be a couple things.
I don't want to see Reggie's death.
I don't want to see, there's a lotof things in five I don't want to
see, even though I love that movie.
I really do.
There's a lot of things thatI would remove completely.

(51:21):
They feel like fan, fanfiction or something.
So, and, and with the narrative that I'mtrying to reveal, I would be removing
things and basically going towards thisidea that maybe the tall man is Mike.
Maybe.

Chris (51:38):
Yeah, I mean, you bring up a good point, but I think it is very difficult
because the series itself does sort of,Change to Reggie at a certain point.
So I guess, you know, if this guy'sgoal is to include all five I can see
why he did it that way But I do thinkI kind of agree that the better way
to do it would be one or the other

DK (52:01):
Yeah, and like and I get I know we're skipping ahead but like Tim I like the
Tim stuff I do but why is it in there?

Bones (52:09):
Yes It's such a indeed.
Yes, you get that entire, uh, house siegesequence only to explain why there's
a kid with a gun in the mausoleum.
We don't need any

DK (52:22):
of that.
You literally

Bones (52:23):
don't need any of that.
And I feel like he workedbackwards from that, right?
Because he wanted to, he wanted toshow the cryo bin full of balls.
And they're in those sequences.
So you need to kind of pedalback, which is a bit of a bummer.
Um,

DK (52:37):
because you're holding on to so much Reggie,

Bones (52:38):
if we

DK (52:39):
let go of some of that Reggie, look, you lose some quintessential phantasm
if you take Reggie out and I am inno way saying we take Reggie out of
phantasm, keep the Christ and Christmas.
You know what I'm saying?
But if I'm doing a fan edit where I'mputting all these movies together, I'm
going to focus on Mike because you get thegift of all that extra footage from four.

(53:02):
You can still tell a linear story goingthat direction, but focus on Mike.
I'm sure there's a way to do it.

Bones (53:10):
I, it's really hard to argue particularly with you a, I like you a
lot and be, you know, more about this.
Uh,
I think, I think what I wanted out ofit when it started was when, when you
see him in the car, I thought, Oh.
This is perfect for him becauseof the age changes, the casting

(53:34):
differences, he can be here.
We can cut to him intermittently.
And then when I, I thought, Oh,actually, if you open up with him
hanging him, reliving parts of one toset up, actually, your brother died.
Then you transition to theopening of two, which I love.

(53:56):
And then you cut into, um, I wasan ice cream guy, blah, blah, blah.
You follow Reggie a little bit.
You establish him.
He's our main action character.
And then you cut back to Mikebeing told by the tall man.
Nope.
I'm not going to kill you.
Then you cut you.
And you see the, your protagonist stuffof the tall man, as they all intercede

(54:21):
end of three on, I thought, uh, Maybethat's a way to layer it, but like I
brought up before, when we talk aboutlike why we get that whole Tim scene,
it does feel like he pinpointed certainthings and then realized, shit, this
guy's in this shot, I gotta go back.
But then at a certain point, about threequarters of the way through the movie,
he goes, well, Chunk, Chunk's just a guy.

(54:43):
Yeah.
That's just a guy, you know, or I really want to show, uh, you
know, Chick pull her scalp off.
It's a cool shot.
Sure.
Not necessary.
Um, it's tough.
It's, I, I get that like the fan servicey elements of like, if you leave,
if you don't put this in, people aregoing to knock you, but it's going

(55:05):
to affect narratively what you'regoing to be able to edit together.

Chris (55:11):
Yeah.
Mike, uh, hallucinates a strangefigure sitting in the back of the
hearse, which we talked about earlier.
Um, then he sees that old psychicwoman, which we've also discussed.
Uh, we see the first encounter betweenhim and the tall man where we get
the, the famous caretaker guy who is.
In this version, just likesome random dude that's not

(55:33):
been seen before, uh, he dies.
And, uh, suddenly we, you know, backin the present day of adult Mike, the
tall man is in the back of the hearse.
The two exchange some harsh words beforethe tall man enters a portal hidden in
the casket in the back of the hearse.
And we get anothervoiceover from adult Mike.

(55:53):
I don't know why he's brought me here.
Feels like I'm at groundzero of his experiment.
There is one escape from him though,and I've got a plan when the sun
comes up I'm going to force him outsee if I can't take him down with me
And this is when we go to a flashbackof the Civil War Surgery scene.
I have

DK (56:13):
a I have a

Chris (56:14):
thousand things

DK (56:14):
to

Chris (56:14):
say right now.
Please say

DK (56:16):
a thousand things.
Okay
We already talked about the hearseand the scarer and well, that's all
great When we see, first of all,another thing from this book, the
caretaker is a character in this book.
You learn about his life.
Mm hmm.
It's not the most interesting thing, butbasically, Cosca really goes, Hey, what if

(56:37):
I made this a really sympathetic characterwho just gets murdered for no reason?
It's pretty good.
The reason I really wanted to goback here is because once he's dead
and pisses all over the floor, Mikestands up tall man enters the hall.
Yes.
Yeah, they have a stare down.
I love Mike's uh, Shit, it's amazing.

(57:01):
Here's one of my first new revelationsthey absolutely Stop at the same time.
They take each step in unisontowards each other Exactly together,
almost as if they're linked somehow,or maybe they're the same dude.

(57:22):
I don't know, but it really is weirdwhen you're going through thinking, I
wonder if that's the same character,and they do the exact movement.

Chris (57:30):
Yeah, I think the first three movies I'm like, yeah, he's the
tall man, I think, four and five.
Make it more complicated.
Not impossible.
Just not in my cut, baby.
The amount of effort it wouldtake me to tie that together
I'm I'm just like, ah, fuck it

(57:51):
Yeah, that is a really cool scenethat I did not notice before

DK (57:55):
when first of all I love that the the casket in the back of the car is
Is like a portal that you can open.
I

Bones (58:03):
love it.

DK (58:03):
But, but also at one point, isn't there a suit in there?
Doesn't you don't see it in thisedit, but like in, in the movie, like,
doesn't he pull a suit out of there?
I've just, that's a sidethat doesn't matter anyway.
I think Mike, anyway, um, when yousee, you, you see the tall man.
Say whatever he's gonna say.
Uh, does he say damn you to hell?
Is that that scene?

(58:24):
Impossible.
Ahem, not possible.
Anyway, you cut back and the tall manis sliding into the casket like a child
down a slide at a fucking McDonald's.
It's beautiful to see his littleleg and foot shoe go through there.
Imagine Angus Scrimm diving into a coffin.

Chris (58:43):
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
One of the things when during thecivil war scene I was convinced to
this time since it's probably like thehighest definition I've ever watched
it in I was convinced one of the guysin the caskets was the caretaker.
I think you're right movie It's like ifit is him, he's not credited, but it could

(59:04):
be an actor made up to look like him Ichecked that dude was only in two other
movies as Grocery store clerk and mr.
Soupy Oh, Mr.
Soupy.
Yeah, from

DK (59:15):
Kenny and Company.
I don't think all thosepeople are accredited.
So, you're probably right.

Chris (59:21):
It looks a lot like him.
I think it's him.
I thought so, too.
What could that possibly mean?
I don't know, but

DK (59:27):
I weirdly chose to ignore it, but I was like, Yeah, I
think that's the same guy.

Bones (59:31):
If I look at this edit, if I look at all five movies, my
understanding of the timeline, theCivil War edit is my number one.
What is this?
Please explain how this fits.
I, I'm forgiving of the factthat we're, we're made to believe
that it's a interplanetary.

(59:53):
Slave trade thing, but then becomesactually it's a guy who's been
doing Interdimensional travel togain strength and these are his
minions as he can can do that.
I totally buy it I totally buywhere two takes, uh, Oh, actually
you got a ball in your head.

(01:00:13):
All of this, I actually, I kind oflove that the civil war flashback.
There's this part of me that'slike, is that another dimension?
Is that another universewhere this happens?
I have a theory bones.
Okay.

DK (01:00:30):
This is the, this is the part where I'm going to sound crazy.

Bones (01:00:34):
Okay.

DK (01:00:34):
And I don't know if I can actually articulate all this, but this goes
into my theory when you see himand it's Mike on the table and he's
jamming something into his nose.
What do you think he's doing?
What is, what if he'sputting a sphere in there?
What if he's putting the ball in?

Bones (01:00:52):
That's always kind of what I assumed.
Yeah.
My question is, he'sputting it in at this age?
Right.
200 years ago?
That's what I was

DK (01:01:01):
thinking.

Bones (01:01:01):
And

DK (01:01:02):
That's true.
It's weird.

Bones (01:01:05):
I know.
I know.
That, that's what fucks my, that, that'swhy it's the one thing that fucks up
my head in terms of trying to kind of

DK (01:01:13):
Should I give you the whole, okay, let me

Bones (01:01:15):
Yeah.

DK (01:01:15):
Oh God.
I don't know if I can explain all this.
You know what?
It's better if we wait, becausethere's a scene where it comes up.
So it's better if we wait.

Chris (01:01:23):
Child Mike and Jody discuss a plan to kill the tall man.
Then we go back to 1988.
Adult Mike peers into theportal hidden in the casket.
We see a bunch of crazy shit,which I did like the way that
those visions were edited together.
Before we go back to 1979.
Child Mike, Jody, and Reggie discovera portal to the Tall Man's home planet,

(01:01:45):
and somehow, based on pretty much zeroevidence, they deduce that the Tall Man
has been stealing bodies, shrinking themdown to three feet tall creatures called
Lurkers, and using them as slave labor.
On the tall man's planet.
And this is one of those things thatmakes exactly as much sense in this

(01:02:07):
edit as it does in the original,because it's kind of like Mike
just decides that's what he's doing

DK (01:02:14):
in the civil war scene.
I just, I just saw this note of mine.
What he says before he jams thething into the nose is, Let me
release you from this imperfect fleshthat ties you to space and time.
Oh, shit.
So it doesn't matter thatit's in the goddamn Civil War.
Keep that in your pocket for later.
Heh

Bones (01:02:31):
heh heh.

Chris (01:02:33):
The portal to the tall man's planet emits a low hum, and is oddly
reminiscent of the tuning fork.
That we saw Reggie using atthe beginning of the film.
He hesitantly places his hands on eachside of the portal, and we're transported
forward in time, to the year 1998.
Apparently, none of thisstuff actually happened.
It's all been a figment of Reggie'searly onset dementia riddled brain.

(01:02:57):
He's in a nursing home of some sort,And his buddy, Old Mike, tells him
that the doctors said it's goodto keep Reggie's brain active.
So, Old Mike asks Reggie to, once again,recount the story of the Tall Man.
We flash back to 1979, and gentlemen,we have reached timeline entropy.
We are now in a flashback,within a flashforward, within a

Bones (01:03:22):
flashback.
Alright, Lindelof.

Chris (01:03:27):
I think this part was simultaneously, like when we go, when he
touches the forks and we go to Ravager,I was like, we've got something here.
Like, this is fucking cool.
Yeah.
But then immediately when it's like,flashback, flashforward, flashback, then I
was like, mmm, do we have something here?

(01:03:48):
I don't know.

DK (01:03:51):
It's close.
I feel, I feel like it's,it's very close to something.
Yes.
But I don't know if it quite andagain, if this is my cut, I'm not
doing any of this old Reggie stuff.
I don't think I want any of it in there.

Chris (01:04:04):
I love the old Reggie stuff.
I think it's one.
I like it in this edit.
I think it's one of the few glimpsesof like somehow tying this all
together in a new and interesting way.
Like, like you alluded to, does itstick the landing only time will
tell, but I thought that that wasan interesting cut right there.

(01:04:26):
I can't argue with that.
It is.
It's good.

Bones (01:04:29):
And it's context within the five is kind of difficult
because two rewrites itself, sofive is rewriting what we rewrote.
Uh, I
mean, god damn.

(01:04:49):
Okay.
Can we talk Angus at this point?
Yeah.
Can we talk about apositive from this edit?
Is God, what a joy he is as the tallman, uh, just ultimately consistent
through here and knows what he's inand knows how to play each different

(01:05:10):
interpretation is incredible.
Um, I don't think we've gotten thereyet when, when he's, uh, you know,
nice guy, morningside serving thelemonade is my favorite bit of his
performance ever in the series.
Please come back.
We have so many questions.
Like,

DK (01:05:30):
yeah, I would also, I really do like phantasm five Angus when,
when he says, you'll never be safe.
I love all that stuff.
Yeah.
His turn in the bed isexactly when it turns evil.
All of a sudden it's just comes acrosshis face just at the last second.
And it's a great cut there too.

Chris (01:05:50):
I think we may have been robbed.
Never getting.
A Phantasm video game, if only for thereason that the commercial writes itself,
if he could have, we could have had acommercial with Anger Scrim that says,
you play a good game boy now play agood game boy Phantasm for the Nintendo
game boy, and he would have done it.

(01:06:12):
He would have done that commercial

DK (01:06:13):
for free.

Chris (01:06:14):
Yeah.
So, I mean, before, before we startedtalking about this movie, we were talking
about, you know, what we're doing forHalloween every year, I edit together like
two, four hour blocks of commercials withlike Halloween specials and movies mixed
in, and I was going over it yesterday.
Cause I made this months ago just tomake sure that it works on my plex.

(01:06:35):
And there's a commercial in thereof anger, scrim, uh, advertising
Fangoria magazine, and it's justthe most delightful thing ever.

DK (01:06:45):
Have you seen, there's, there's a clip of him, it's, he like does a cameo in some
movie and I don't know the, the movie.
Have you seen the clip where it's likeIt's a phantasm spoof, and then they
start playing baseball with the spheres?
No.
I think Bones, did I send that to you?
It

Bones (01:07:03):
sounds awfully familiar.
I feel

DK (01:07:05):
like I did, but I don't remember what it's from.
Just, if you just Googlephantasm parody Angus Grimm.
Baseball?
It's worth, oh, baseball, restin peace, James Earl Jones.
Baseball.
Transylvania twist.
1989, he shows up as the tall manand they play a little baseball.

(01:07:29):
It's like a two minuteclip worth watching.
He's the best.
He's, he's one of the greats.
One of the all time.
All accounts.
He was at the conventions.
He was so lovely with the fans.
By all accounts.
He was like the nicest man ever to live.

Bones (01:07:43):
The week that we covered, I want to say two.
On the show, I had a little bitextra time, so I, and it's one
of the rare, like, physical mediathings that I own, so I threw on the
commentary, and he and Reggie werean absolute blast on the commentary.
Like, you could tell they hadsuch reverence for what they were

(01:08:04):
doing, uh, That's always nice.

DK (01:08:09):
Have you seen his, uh, Masters of Horror?
The Coscarelli one?

Chris (01:08:14):
Oh, I was like, did Angus Scrimm direct?
God, I

DK (01:08:16):
wish.
That would've been amazing.
He shows up in the Coscarellione, which, Sorry, Don, if you're
listening, and I'm sure you are.
I don't think the episode is very good.
It's a cool story that doesn't, I justdon't think it's executed perfectly, but,
Angus
Scrimm shows up as like a crazy man living in the woods, Who's
kind of being held by this othercrazy man, if I remember correctly.

(01:08:38):
And he like sings a song andhe's like, do you have any candy?
I love candy.
I'd like to eat some candy.
Did you bring candy?
It's amazing.
It's worth watching just for that.

Chris (01:08:48):
Yeah, I'll have to check that.
I haven't seen that one.
Please check it out.
Back in 1979, the trio facesoff against the Tall Man.
It's intercut with scenes of1988 adult Mike preparing to
hang himself in the desert.
And at the 30 minute mark, all myapprehensions about this fan edit

(01:09:09):
were assuaged, because we cut backto 1979, where Reggie explains to
child Mike, Mike, that tall manof yours did not take Jody away.
Jody died in a car wreck.
What?
And I am fucking the Leomeme pointing at the screen.
He said the thing, he

DK (01:09:27):
said a thing as they're leading tall man, I think this is that
same part leading him towardsthe whole, the mineshaft, the
hands come out of the, uh, mud.
There's no way there arecreatures and hands in the mud.
That's got to be somethingin Mike's mind, right?

(01:09:47):
Maybe, maybe some influencethat the tall man has over Mike.
Why would that be?
Think about it.

Chris (01:09:54):
Mud is cold and Jebediah Morningside found out how to manipulate
things as simple as warm and cold.
That's one.

DK (01:10:02):
That is one.
Maybe, maybe it's, he cancontrol them because there's
a sphere in his head already.
Maybe Mike already has a sphere inhis head is what I'm trying to say.

Bones (01:10:11):
Reminiscent of the nightmare of him being pulled in.
Okay.
Uh huh.
Okay.

DK (01:10:17):
Yep.
This is why tall man is so whatever.
Anyway.
Um, yes.
So we cutting back andforth between the two.
Hanging scenes.
And I remember like when Ifirst watched this cut, I was
like, Oh, this is so perfect.
They're going to make this work.
They're going to make this work.
And it doesn't quite do it, but seeingit cut together like that is so great.

(01:10:40):
And it's kind of what this, I think itwas, I think I watched this three times.
The second time I watchedit, I was like, Oh shit.
I wonder if, if I really lookfor the tall man, Mike thing,
is this, am I going to find it?
Yeah.
And this really, really goes there.

Chris (01:10:56):
Well, I was going to say, I kind of had those same feelings of like, This is
another nugget of what this edits tryingto do, but ultimately I felt like it was
just they have a visual similarity andthat's where it feels like it stopped.
Yeah, it stops there.

DK (01:11:14):
Yeah.
Uh, it really feels likeyou're onto something there
though, for, for just a second.
You're like, Oh shit,they're going to do it.
And it doesn't quite.

Bones (01:11:22):
Would you say it's like poetry?
It rhymes.
It rhymes.

DK (01:11:25):
Yeah.

Bones (01:11:26):
Okay.

DK (01:11:27):
I would say that.
But now let me ask you this.
Did we already see, we already saw it.
I think.
When they first go throughthe, the interdimensional
fork, the dimensional fork.
Did we not see Reggie die in this cut?

(01:11:50):
Um, I can't remember.
Why do we see that?
I think you see it in this cut.
You get Jodie Roediger,

Bones (01:11:55):
yeah.

DK (01:11:55):
Why on earth does it show Reggie dying?
Cut that out.
This is your chance to fix that.

Chris (01:12:02):
Yeah,

DK (01:12:03):
that's a good point.
Lose it.
Why would you show that?
It just adds confusion.
Solid.
I don't, I know alittle, a little mystery.
That, to me, seems like, uh, uh, obvious.
C'mon.

Chris (01:12:19):
See, the Tall Man, quote unquote, defeated for the first time, and for
the next ten or so minutes of the film,we get a montage of scenes pulled from
2 and 3 that take place story wisebetween the years of 1986 and 1988.
Reggie and Mike onceagain defeat the Tall Man.
And suddenly we get another voiceover fromReggie that gives us a little more context

(01:12:41):
to what the fuck is actually going on.
Apparently the tall man wantsto turn Mike into a tall man.
And it seemed like they weregoing to change perspective to
Reggie at this point, but theykinda don't really do that.
I thought it was weird.

Bones (01:13:02):
And it makes future Reggie thinking he's crazy lose a little bit of impact
if he's not a little bit more primary.

Chris (01:13:17):
Yeah,

Bones (01:13:18):
because or you need to add more at the end from five of, of Mike,
which you don't really have God again.
I'm just gonna put it on record.
It's, it's such a, I fucking love to, soit's such a bummer to, I mean, you get the
great, uh, I mean, that effect of, uh, theghoul or whatever coming out of her back.

(01:13:43):
And tall man talking to him is great.
And,

Chris (01:13:46):
and one of, one of my favorite lines from the series
is right there where Reggie goes,
yes, yes,

DK (01:13:56):
absolutely.
That's a real, uh, Freddy Kruegerlooking effect and I love it.

Chris (01:14:01):
So, yeah, I mean, this is the section where it's like
a 30 minute best of compilation.
We probably don't need to go throughit at all unless there's like
some specific scenes like bonesof saying the little freddy ghoul
coming out of Liz's shoulders.

Bones (01:14:17):
And it reminds you that a big chunk of phantasm is an ice
cream guy just trying to get late
sure is it takes it down andit's just base human impulse.

DK (01:14:29):
And the song that the song that plays, I think we're right there, like
the heavier version of the phantasm theme.
That's have you seen it andthat is performed by Reggie and
his band the jizz jizz whaling

Chris (01:14:40):
doggies.
Yes Absolutely Yeah, it's likeit introduces you a little bit
to the crazy Cast of charactersthat they have met along the way.
I do feel like it focused It's weirdbecause it's like a greatest hits But it
also like is not because it keeps in a lotof the like dialogue of those You Three

(01:15:04):
people that are chasing Tim that kind ofbreaks up the flow of like it's not really
a montage But it's not really a narrative.
Yeah, it starts in between

DK (01:15:15):
it starts as a Reggie kill montage And then it goes to to
Tim it is very strange choice.

Chris (01:15:22):
Yeah, certainly I think this was kind of my jumping off point
where I'm like there They're notgoing to do anything with this.
It's, uh, I don't want to besmirchthe guy that put in so much time
and effort, but at this point Iwas like, uh, I don't think there's
really a through line to this.

DK (01:15:44):
Yeah, I, I think I had a similar thing right around this time too.
I was like, hang on, why have we,now I'm just thinking about all these
scenes and the stuff that's not there.
I know it would have a differenteffect if I had never seen them, but
I got to imagine it would be confusingas hell if I hadn't seen them.
Yes.
I mean, it would be unwatchable, right?
Yeah.
Yes.
So I'm not really sure whothis is for at this point.

Bones (01:16:07):
I once heard somebody on a, I want to say, I had to cheerlead other shows,
uh, screen drafts, their mega Bond draft.
I forget the critics name.
He was on there and he was talkingabout the Craig era and he was
one of the first people to ever.
Share my main complaint of, of hisrun is that you go from quantum

(01:16:32):
of solace to Skyfall, you go fromrelatively new to immediately
seasoned with no movie in there.
You're a relic.
Yes.
And what he talks about is some problemsin Skyfall or things that pointed out
to him were that all the things thatpeople like, Oh, the car, Oh, this.

(01:16:53):
Yes.
All are it's all necessary to have seenall of these other movies for it to inform
that so every time i watch skyfall nowit's like i can't now i don't believe that
there's uh that the intent was oh casinoroyale quantum of solace doctor no then
at the end you jump to skyfall and on surei don't believe that that's their intent

(01:17:17):
but it naturally happens that way i bringthat up now because it's so impossible
to watch this at it without thinking.
you You can't just show this to somebody.
It's, it would not make any sense.
So that inherently makes it difficult.
But as we're talking through it andgoing, this is to your point, Chris, I

(01:17:42):
don't think you're necessarily insultingthe person's work, but you can, from
a critique element, say, some of thedecisions and things that you're pulling
out are too fan servicey or too bloated.
And they affect the through narrativeof what that it's trying to achieve.

DK (01:18:00):
I'd love to hear his his perspective on it, too.

Bones (01:18:03):
Yeah,

DK (01:18:03):
maybe there's a really good reason why some of that stuff is there, but
you know, I could that towards the end.

Chris (01:18:08):
But yeah, I do think that's it's interesting bones that you can you like
the problem that so many people have withmodern movies of all these reboot calls
and remakes is like too much fan service.
It's interesting that you can.
Still somehow fall into that trap whenyou're editing like pre existing material.

(01:18:30):
It's all based on whatyou decide to put in it.
Mm hmm.
Interesting.

Bones (01:18:36):
Well, okay.
A movie's made three times.
You write it, you shootit, you edit it, right?
And then a franchise, as youcontinue each on, there's like
subsects of each subsequent movie.
And what you're choosing toshow and what you're choosing
to continue and, and build upon.
So now you take this, you're not onlypicking from that movie, you're also sort

(01:18:58):
of picking from it's three incarnations.
It's intention, what is shot, andhow it was edited and presented.
So, There's like 15 differentoptions as opposed to just five.

Chris (01:19:14):
I think this being a, uh, an edit of like preexisting material, it
adds like a fourth layer of like it'smade a fourth time by how the phantasm
audiences have received it over the years.
So that's now going into this.

DK (01:19:30):
Mm hmm.

Chris (01:19:32):
Damn, dude.
We're going deep doing calculushere quantum mechanics.
I'll give you a book on it.
Okay
after that montage The noose that adultMike is attempting to hang himself with
in the present day of 1988 breaks andthe tall man shows up Tall man offers his

(01:19:53):
hand to adult Mike after an uncomfortablylong pause Adult Mike rejects it and
runs into a pair of dimensional forksthat have appeared in the desert.
Be careful what you look for.
You just might find it.
The tall man says adult Mike istransported back in time to the 1800s.

(01:20:14):
He's at Morningside mausoleum andhe meets Jebediah Morningside and
the man who would eventually betransformed into the tall man.
After entering the dimensionalforks, Jebediah offers Mike some
lemonade and adult Mike freaksout and goes back to 1988.
We then see Reggie drivingthrough the desert.

(01:20:35):
He sees a woman driving acar and pulls up next to her.
But as he does, a tortoise wandersinto the middle of the street.
The woman flips her car.
Luckily, Reggie is able to pullher out completely unscathed.
Reggie takes the woman to a hotel roomand regales her with the tale of his

(01:20:56):
and Mike's war against the tall man.
After listening to Reggie'sstory, the woman says, Reggie.
You sound so demented, which I thoughtwas interesting now that I've, I'm
watching all of these and that he does.
In one of the possiblefutures, get dementia.
It's interesting that he may have it.

(01:21:16):
What a

DK (01:21:16):
connection.
I didn't, wow.
Honestly, you just blewmy mind a little bit.
So I can't believe you just blew my mind.
That's unbelievable.

Chris (01:21:26):
But I think it gives evidence for the timeline that people dislike the most.
So true.

Bones (01:21:34):
Can I throw out a pitch of something that I just thought of?

Chris (01:21:37):
Yes.

Bones (01:21:38):
Show this earlier in Reggie's narrative.
This is his justification forexplaining what he's seen.
So Mike, either in the car talking tohimself or journaling, we see what's
got him to this point to Reggie drivingflip, get this lady who is this starts

(01:22:04):
telling the story, then show your montage,all these things that have happened.
Then cap that with what happened likethe reveal of what's in her chests, uh,
and then go forward is that the most

DK (01:22:18):
5dr moment of all fantastic

Bones (01:22:21):
pretty damn close to a horse,

DK (01:22:23):
probably horses up there.
Yeah, the sphere breasts or the horse.

Bones (01:22:29):
Yeah, um, so I was gonna say, well, you're about to reveal
it, but does make the turt like thetortoise thing weird was like, right.
He's already

Chris (01:22:41):
weird.

Bones (01:22:42):
It's yeah, but do you need the turtle for the reason that her car
messes up or if she's got the balls?
She's are it's implied that she'salready kind of going after him, right?
Sure So what luck that there's aturtle there and she wrecks then
is that just more interestingthan her car is broken down?
Because they did they did that inthe one before but two no, that's in

DK (01:23:04):
five

Bones (01:23:06):
Okay.
Yeah.

DK (01:23:08):
I

Chris (01:23:08):
think Oscar really just wants to flip cars, dude.
They probably just had the role of atortoise and they're like, it's in there.
Let's use it.
Um, so yeah, Reggie fallsasleep beside this woman.
He wakes up back in 1998 in thenursing home he was left at.
In the bed next to himis Jebediah Morningside.

(01:23:31):
Reggie wakes up from that dream andthe lady he was shacking up with.
This is when we get theSilver Sphere boobs.
Reggie destroys them.

DK (01:23:40):
I would argue.
What a weird reaction.
Far out.
I would maybe say, maybe she'snormal until he falls asleep, the
tall man comes, gives her a littleaugmentation surgery, and then he
wakes up, and then they're there.
Just a

Chris (01:23:56):
thought, maybe.
Yeah, in this one I think so, but I can'tremember what happens between him falling
asleep and waking up in the actual movie.
I think he does fall

DK (01:24:07):
asleep, so You don't know what, yeah, you just don't know
what happened because he's asleep.
So you don't see it.

Bones (01:24:12):
Tall man gets ready to go through a nostril and then it's like,
oh, wait a minute, changes at the lastminute to be a little kinky with it.
Oh yeah.
I've already done the head.

Chris (01:24:25):
Um, so he destroys those spheres.
He puts on his old Ice CreamMan uniform, heads out into the
desert in search of Adult Mike.
He's greeted by a lurker thathe quickly dispatches with his
double double barreled shotgun.
Just then, Adult Mike and Jodyemerge from a pair of heretofore
unseen dimensional forks.

(01:24:46):
Now we get a voiceover from Jody,giving some background on the Tall Man.
As Undertaker, he bore witnessto the stark passage from life to
death, but the more he put into thegrave, the more questions he had.
He came to the conclusion that theanswers were before him, hidden in
subjects, as simple as shifting phases.

(01:25:06):
Vibration, warmth, and cold.
It became his life's work, his passion,to learn the craft, find the rift,
and make his way through that passage.
This is the hour.
The time has come.
And so, right here, I was like, Arethey kind of doing like a, a three thing
where each person gets to have theirmonologue and then they switch to that

(01:25:27):
person's perspective for a little bit.
Cause we already had it, it opens up withMike and we have Reggie halfway through
and now we have Jody, but there's notactually enough Jody dialogue or moments
to make that little triptych thing work.
I don't know.
How, how did you feel about Jodyentering and getting a monologue?

DK (01:25:52):
Well, I think that I don't think you get some of the very
important information any other way.
I think that just, it just happensto be the way it was delivered.
And that's the way we have to show it.
Um, this is, this is one of themain scenes where I start to
think about these theories again.

(01:26:13):
First of all, when theycome through that fork.
Mike says don't trust him.
Don't trust Jody.
That's, I think that's important.
Um, also, uh, I think there'ssome Phantasm V music there
that like actually fit.
I could be wrong, but it felt like maybethere was music from Phantasm V that

(01:26:35):
was put there that I was like, Oh, Ithink that's from later, but it works.
Anyway, that doesn't matter.
So when we find out, yeah, like this isthe last time he's Jebediah Morningside.
He goes through that, the portal.
He can't see them then, but But whenhe comes back, he can see them, right?
He sees Mike.

(01:26:55):
Mike's the first person hesees when he comes back.
You notice he comes back holding a ball.
Now, I don't know exactly what allthis means, but I think the very
next scene we see is when, don'tthey pull the ball out of his head?
It's very shortly after that.
So when we get to that, Ijust want to bring this up now
because it might make more sense.

(01:27:16):
Now, when he comes through afterleaving, he's holding a ball and
I wonder if it's the same ball.
He just pulled out of Mike's head.
You have to almost just watch it and think

Chris (01:27:28):
about it.
Certainly possible.
I guess this is a goodtime to talk about this.
I know I do love Ravager, butI think to assert like four is
a better ending for the series.
If we want to look at Ravageras just like a, what if I think.
What I get from the first four movies,the reason that adult Mike, or that

(01:27:49):
Mike is so important to the tall man isthat there's like, um, what's it called?
Like, uh, Retro causality time paradox,like Mike creates the tall man because
Mike goes through those forks and meetsJebediah Morningside who had not yet
gone through those forks, presumablybecause maybe he was afraid to do so.

(01:28:14):
So Mike has to go through thoseto convince the tall man or
Jebediah to go through the forks.
Then become the tall man.
Yep.
And so the reason he doesn't want Miketo kill himself is because if Mike kills
himself and never goes back in time, henever, like the tall man, never exists.
That's a perfect theory.

(01:28:34):
That is a very supportable

DK (01:28:37):
theory through the first four.
That might be what it was intendedYou, you're probably right.
It's really hard to argue with that.
No.

Bones (01:28:47):
Yeah.
I mean, it's the John Connorshouldn't exist sort of thing.
Right.
To simplify it in another franchise term.
Um, yeah, yeah.
I, I don't dislike or hatethat there's an element of.
This just reinforcing how frustratingthat is that there is that it isn't

(01:29:11):
a little bit cleaner, you know, um,and then you, I don't know, you just
get to this certain point where whenstuff falls off off a franchise.
When it's sort of spaced out, you kindof forgive it, you kind of forget it, but
when it's crammed together, you are sortof like, wow, serious lack of lurkers, you

(01:29:34):
know, or, and, and, and things like that.
So when you get to like this,this heady drawn out point, you,
if I'm going to pay the prayer, ifI'm going to invest and sit there and
go through the, the more drawn out,heady stuff, give me the reward of.
Explaining it or making it so easy thatI get it and I cannot believe that.

(01:29:58):
I never thought about that before.
Like, that is, I think you justdid more work for the franchise in
terms of it, like bumping up for me.

Chris (01:30:05):
I mean, it's all there.
It does take some, some to get there,but it's also like, okay, well, maybe
that's why he put the ball in his head.
So he has, you know, tracking ormaybe some semblance of control.
Over him so he can make surethat he doesn't kill himself.
And then at the end of four, likeyou, he, he pulls the ball back out.

(01:30:27):
We could assume Mike is dead andthe series ends with Reggie, just.
Going into the forks to fightthe tall man, which I think is
a good ending for the series.
I totally agree.
Because it's like, it doesn't need to bedefinitive because nothing in this is so,
so at this point, Mikegoes into the forks.

(01:30:48):
He wakes up in the mausoleum wherethe tall man is there and Jody's
holding him down on a table.
What the fuck, bro?
Why are you doing this?
Um, tall man begins tocut into Mike's head.
Mike has the tuning forks,which he uses to short circuit.
The tall man and Jody adultMike slits Jody's throat using a

(01:31:09):
nearby silver sphere as Jody lieson the floor bleeding to death.
He says, I died in the car wreck.
There it is.
He died in the car wreck.
In case you missed it.
Adult Mike escapes the tall man throughthe dimensional forks and tells a
waiting Reggie Jody's dead, which isnot exactly news to Reggie because as

(01:31:34):
he knows and as Jody just confirmed,Jody died in a car wreck in 1979.
Everybody knows it.
Except Mike Mike doesn't
tall man comes through the forks.
Uh, he Reggie and adult Mike duke it out.
Um, tall man ultimately comes out on top.
Tall man pulls a silver spear out of myskull and fucks off through the forks.

(01:31:58):
Right Reggie grabs a shotgunand goes in after him.
We zoom into adult Mike's eyeswhere we get a glimpse of the 1998
future in which the world is overrunby lurkers and giant spheres.
And Which I, I liked this cut, thisediting that they did of zooming
into his eye and seeing what Ithink you guys really hated that

(01:32:20):
scene of the like tracking shotthrough the post apocalyptic future.
But I really like it.
I mean, I can imaginewhat they were going for.
Had they had a better budget.
You don't have any other choice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'll shoot him some bail on that.
It's.
I like it in theory, we'll sayit's probably the best way.

(01:32:43):
And so then we get the montage fromravager where Mike says the world had
changed full blown invasion was underwayand all out attack against the world.
We knew governmentscollapsed society crumbled.
An alien virus unleashed, peoplewere sick, and eventually their heads
would swell up until they popped.

(01:33:04):
The body count was immenseand there was no cure.
And guys, let me ask you this,is the tall man an alien?
Because I feel like he's not an alien.
I don't think he is.

DK (01:33:18):
An interdimensional being, to be exact, if you want to
take a thing from Indiana Jones.

Bones (01:33:24):
Okay, so my interpretation is, it shouldn't be an interpretation,
they are saying he, uh, copiedhimself, he copied, right?
But he copied himself, right?
And went to, went through space andtime, however many different ways.
Uh, what we see in phantasm oneis potentially just one of those

(01:33:48):
particular working planets or something.
So I, I think alien virusis just something that came
through a portal, right?
Or it's not, it's not outside thepossibility of what this is established
that something could have come, comethrough an alien doesn't necessarily mean.
Extraterrestrial, right?

(01:34:08):
So

Chris (01:34:10):
true, true.
I like kind of got the impression,like I'm sure DK, you at least
have seen Hellraiser two.
Absolutely.
So Leviathan, the God of their versionof hell is just like this giant diamond.
Basically.
I kind of think that.
My thinking on it is like, there'ssome sort of a, like elder God.

(01:34:32):
That's just this giant sphere, likesome Lovecraftian unknowable horror
that is controlling, like the tallman's just like one of his minions.
That's the way I think about it.
I mean, there's not reallyany evidence to support that.

DK (01:34:48):
Let me give you one, let me give you one little piece of evidence, maybe.
And that is above thedoor to the white room.
What is there like some Greekgods, gods above the passage
room to go to those other places?
It's maybe nothing, or maybe it's like,look, this is beyond man's comprehension.

(01:35:11):
This is a higher intelligence.
This is way far beyond anything you.
Can understand.
Um, that's what those symbolize.
It's an idea.
It kind of could go alongwith what you're saying.
Okay.
Is this part of theStargate cinematic universe?
Well, we got two, two piecesof evidence right there.

Chris (01:35:34):
If, uh, If Michael Shannon's playing the tall man in the remake,
we gotta get James Spader to beadult Mike, and then we gotta get

Bones (01:35:43):
Haley Joel Osment

Chris (01:35:44):
as

Bones (01:35:45):
middle aged.

DK (01:35:47):
Hey, honestly though, okay, I don't know, this might be dumb,
but Patrick Wilson as Reggie?

Chris (01:35:53):
I was gonna ask who Kurt Russell is.
Is he Jody or is he Reggie?
He should be Reggie.
Okay.
He's got such good hair though.

Bones (01:36:01):
Caretaker,
just a, just a little taste.
Hairtaker.
I, I like Patrick Wilson, man.

DK (01:36:10):
I do too.
And I can give you, can you justimagine him with a little of that hair
gone and, and, and the Reggie lookand put him in that ice cream outfit.
Like I could see PatrickWilson being Reggie.

Bones (01:36:20):
He pulls off schlubby.
He's uh, in Watchmen.
He can do it.
Attractive as hell.
And I think 100 percent Reggieis a good looking dude, man.

Chris (01:36:29):
Yeah.
And he's

DK (01:36:30):
smooth.

Chris (01:36:30):
Yeah.
The problem is everyone's goingto Turkey to get hair transplants.
So we don't have any peoplewith skillets anymore.
There's no fairness

DK (01:36:39):
skillets.
Devin Townsend shaved it.
So now we got

Bones (01:36:41):
nobody.
I guarantee you there's like alittle subsect of character actors
in Hollywood that had a meeting andwe're like, we, we are the 10 guys
that are not getting hair plugs, right?
They're going to need somebody.

Chris (01:36:58):
Yeah.
Glenn Howard is Reggie.
Um, yes, so, Tall Man, Alien.
We go forward in time tothis post apocalyptic 1998.
It's bad shit, Future Mike tells Reggie.
Future Mike has been leading aband of survivors in the fight

(01:37:18):
against the Tall Man for ten years.
While Reggie, in this version,has been God knows where.
Because, in Ravager, he's had his headbetween two forks and been in a coma.
I don't think that's in here at all.
I think.
He goes into the forks andwe see him 10 years later.

(01:37:40):
So future Mike Reggie and the freedomfighters are attacked by a red sphere,
which I wish we could have gotten more.
I love it.
I, I always, when I see the goldsphere and the red sphere, I think of
like your Ninja Turtles beat him upwhere, like, the Foot Clan, like, this
guy is wearing a white uniform, sothat's how you automatically know you

(01:38:01):
gotta punch him a couple extra times.

DK (01:38:04):
It's like Streets of Rage, we just reskin and recolor.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.

Bones (01:38:09):
Can I point out just, like, a Goosebumps, a Goosebumps moment for me?
In five, or, like, the sceneof Reggie in the wheelchair.
Nurse comes up and says,hey, you have a visitor.
And Mike just sort of subtly walks upand like the lean over like we gotta go.

(01:38:30):
I love that.
That is such like a one thingabout Ravager that I think
they executed really well.

Chris (01:38:38):
Yeah, I just love seeing it so high because it has the emotional core.
Yeah.
But you don't get to seehardly any of that in this.
Oh, yeah.
I love Reggie

DK (01:38:45):
standing in the yard and all of a sudden he's seeing
what's possibly really there.
All that stuff is gone.

Bones (01:38:51):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
All the nurses passing blame.
Yeah.

DK (01:38:56):
Oh,

Bones (01:38:56):
yeah.

Chris (01:38:58):
Yeah, so Reggie has a bunch of flashbacks, he and Mike exit the building,
they're hiding in to face off with thetall man one last time, a member of
future Mike's freedom fighter team whoBones referred to was once a character
is now just some guy in this edit whois Chunk, dude pulls a Chiaotzu from

(01:39:19):
Dragon Ball Z and suicide bombs the tallman as Reggie and future Mike escape
into a nearby pair of dimensional forts.
But Reggie is the only one that makesit through and he's back in 1998.
He's on his deathbed while Old Mike andsomehow alive Old Jody hold his hands
and see him through to the other side.

(01:39:40):
Reggie dies and we flash back to 1979.
Child Mike is riding alongsideReggie in the ice cream truck.
They hear a disembodiedvoice say, I'm dying, Reg.
Which, I don't know where that comes from.
I, I couldn't place that.
Is it Mike saying it?
I

DK (01:40:00):
guess it has to be.
Because it would make sensealmost if it was Jody.
More than Mike.

Chris (01:40:07):
Yeah, just something with the way it was with the mixing like
I couldn't pick I couldn't tell who

DK (01:40:11):
said it whose voice it

Chris (01:40:12):
was But after that Reggie asks, did you hear something
and child Mike responds?
Just the wind.
It's just the wind roll creditsphantasm revision so Initial thoughts

DK (01:40:29):
it's fun.
It's a fun watch if you're a fan ofphantasm It's a frustrating watch at
times getting to see like everything Acool guy's thoughts on, here's some of
my favorite parts of Phantasm and I kindof made them work together as a story.
Hell yeah!
Sometimes you just wantsome, you want a clip show.
And it's slightly more than a clip show.

(01:40:52):
I, considerably more, I would say.
And, uh, it's just fun to be able tolook at it in a different way and the
scenes being cut the way they are, like,you get different context for them.
I don't hate it.
I don't think I'll watch itagain soon, but I don't think
I'll never watch it again.

Bones (01:41:11):
Yeah, uh, it has like a Metallica S& M vibe to it, right?
Okay, alright.
It's kind of a best of reinterpretation.

DK (01:41:21):
And it has no Leaf Clover.

Bones (01:41:23):
Yeah, and human.

DK (01:41:24):
Okay.

Bones (01:41:24):
Um.
Alright.
Uh, there's an element, uh,there's a charm to it of, man,
I'd like to watch Phantasm, butI, I like one, I really like four.
Which one do I pick?
Do I want to commit to the whole thing?
There's a benefit of, I got this badboy, let me throw this on, 90 minutes.

(01:41:45):
And you kind of get to reliveeverything, like you said, sometimes
you love a clip show, right?
And it got my juices charged.
Like I'm sitting here thinking, damn,I don't necessarily want to like
pitch a remake of this as, as funas it is to talk about, like, who
would we cast and what would we do?

(01:42:06):
It's making me go.
Uh, Tim, I wish three opened with Tim.
I wish the first 20 minutes wasTim, you know, shit like that.
So I think it has a net positive.
Do I think it totallymakes narrative sense?
No, not really.
You have to have beef.

(01:42:27):
You have to be familiar withthe franchise to get it.
So,

Chris (01:42:30):
yeah, I, I had a rough time with this and I'm glad that.
Both of you seem toenjoy it more than I did.
I'm not mad at you forasking me to see this.
Well, it was, it was a

DK (01:42:43):
great time and I was looking for any reason to read through
more of this, the fiction book.
And, um, yeah.

Chris (01:42:52):
Uh, I mean, I don't think I was able to glean any more
clarity on the actual plot ofphantasm and I, I don't think that
this edit really pulled out any.
New plot threads thatweren't already there.
Sure.

DK (01:43:13):
It's just fun for my insane theories to, to see these, these
scenes in a different way, you know?
Yeah.
Um, I, I would say the thing Imiss the most probably is if you're
going to have all this Reggie,but we don't put the demon cop in.
What are we doing?

Chris (01:43:27):
Was that not in the greatest hit?
You see a brief

DK (01:43:30):
flash of it, and you see him go into the trunk and the head is in there.
Um, but that's it.
You see a brief 20 seconds, if that, 10seconds maybe, and that's just a shame.

Chris (01:43:41):
Yeah, cut out the bandits with Tim and put more of that scene in.
Cause, I mean, we'llhave a man on fire stunt.
It's a great stunt, too.
It really is.
I think My main issue with this wasprobably just my own expectations.
Um, I think going into it, I thought that.
It would be like a reeditthat sort of clarifies and

(01:44:02):
focuses the plot of the five.
That's what you want.
Same.
Yeah, I totally

DK (01:44:05):
thought

Chris (01:44:05):
so

DK (01:44:05):
too.

Chris (01:44:05):
Yeah.
Um, I thought that it would probably beedited in such a way that maybe the story
would be altered by the edit, but it wouldmake more sense than the five of them.
Um, I was wrong about that.
I just don't think that was his

DK (01:44:22):
intention.
I just don't think that was his intention

Chris (01:44:24):
at all.
He said in a Q and a.
For many years, I wanted to reedita franchise into a single visceral
experience, and it wasn't untilI saw all the Phantasm films that
I realized that it could be done.
I've always wanted to see a filmwhere the actors actually age,
but not just age a couple years.

(01:44:45):
I want to see a real child becomean adult within the film's 89
minute length, which is Boyhood.
Right.

DK (01:44:54):
But also then you're messing with the timeline where you're
jumping back and forth all the time.
It's like, you didn't really deliver that.

Chris (01:45:00):
So I guess on that front, he was successful because you do get to see
the actor's age, but at the same time, Idon't, I don't think anything is really
gained and seeing them age over 89minutes as opposed to 5 movies because
you, you still get to see them age.
Yeah,

DK (01:45:20):
for sure.

Chris (01:45:22):
I mean, I think my other issue is that it's actually, it is more
confusing than just watching five movies.
You

DK (01:45:31):
take away a lot of the context.
It's, yeah, you're right.
It's baffling at times.
It's an impressive feat.
I guess the, one of the coolest thingsthat he did is, Work around the recasting
of Mike, he does a pretty good job of likebeing able to show you some phantasm to

Bones (01:45:48):
yeah

DK (01:45:48):
and work around that you get some wide shots.
You get some, some shots whereit's just reg or whatever some of
it's in there, but you do lose alot of the fun of two, which is a

Chris (01:45:57):
bummer.
I think I just fall on the sideof, I think he worked around it
by excising almost all of it.
Yes,

DK (01:46:03):
for sure.
He, but I think he did a goodjob with what he could show.
I

Chris (01:46:08):
think maybe he was like, really trying to amp up the dreamlike quality
of the franchise by, you know, he takesthe timeline jumping, which is for
the most part, only a part of ravager,and he kind of turns that up to 11.
But for me, at a certainpoint, it got to be too much.
It comes off less as dreamlikeand more just like we've said,

(01:46:32):
greatest hits compilation.
Um, I think.
What I personally look for insomething like this is something that
makes me look through, look at thematerial through a different lens.
And I just, for me, it just didn't reallyrecontextualize the originals in any way.
I don't know.

DK (01:46:51):
Well, let me, let me throw this at you real quick, just to get this
out of the way, because I've beentalking about this crazy theory, right?
The theory that I kind of came up withis, what if it's a single time loop and
a tall man is constantly fucking with it?
Um, and he's going back.
He's taking Mike, putting Mikein different places in time.
That's why you see him in the Civil War.

(01:47:13):
That's why you see him in the 70s.
That's why you see him later.
He's dropping him in these othertimes, and what he's trying to do
is he's trying to, I got Dune onthe brain, just like Coscarelli.
They are trying to make theKwisatz Haderach, right?
They're trying to make this manwho can be many places at once.
And other things later in the Dunebooks, which if people haven't read

(01:47:33):
them, I don't want to spoil it foryou, but there's another character that
goes through many, many iterations.
With a final result of something.
And when you start to see Mike gainingthese, the telekinesis and he's gets
these metal eyes and he starts tobecome aware of things like he sort
of has like another sense almost.

(01:47:54):
Um, it almost is likehe's refining my keys.
He is using the time and he'sdoing something and taking that
ball and putting it in again.
Okay, this is, this is the data I have.
I'm going to stick it in you.
I'm going to put you in the civil war.
And then when I'm done with that one,I'm going to put you here and whatever.
I don't know.
I don't have a specific.
No, I but it's like

Chris (01:48:15):
selectively breeding a quiz.
That's how to rock through 100 percent

DK (01:48:19):
timelines using these spheres.
Well, my, my thought was like, maybeit's one timeline and he just keeps.
Yeah.
Going, going back and starting over,you know, um, and another thing I wanted
to point out was that I love, and thisisn't part of that really, but I love
when it's near the end, when, when Mikestabs him with a ball on the head and

(01:48:39):
then he blows up and then the othertall man comes out of the forks and that
look he gives when he comes in and hekind of looks around like, Trying to
figure out what exactly is going on.
He's taking in the scene.
It doesn't look like it's like alook, like he's like, Hey, look,
are you surprised that I'm here?
It looks more of a, I'm tryingto assess what's going on.
Um, almost as if.

(01:49:02):
To me that kind of proves the tall man.
They're independent from each other.
Um, so you have multiple tall menwith hundreds of thousands apparently

Chris (01:49:11):
Yeah,

DK (01:49:11):
that that might not necessarily have the same goals or you know, they're not
the same They don't share a consciousnessif that I don't know if that even matters
But I guess the the thought is like he'ssort of a hive mind and there's all these
and they're being controlled But I thinkit's interesting to think that the tall
man is all these different timelines oreven just the one loop Just like fucking
around with time putting balls in people'sheads and being a nightmare creature

(01:49:36):
Yeah, it's, uh, God, it's,I know I sound insane.
I'm sorry.
You don't the movie sound insane.
I'm trying to make senseof a senseless thing.

Chris (01:49:46):
Right.

Bones (01:49:48):
I have the same problem, but I'm trying to be restrictive with
it because I'm putting too muchof what I want it to have been.
I want it to lean more into a weirddimensional planetary slave labor thing.

(01:50:10):
And this young kid justhappened to spoil it enough.
So he is the, uh, he's the thingthat's fucking up the tall man.
Whereas Reggie is just the soldieron the ground dealing with that.
And I, for the mostpart, that's what it is.
But when you throw in these littlethings and the, the problem just is

(01:50:31):
what the timeline of the franchiseproduction as a whole affects that.
So as much as I, I want to think,well, maybe it's this, I have to then
ask myself, well, is that through thefilter of what I want it to have been?
Um,

DK (01:50:49):
well, if you think about, don't forget when I was on five day
rentals and we talked about ravager,that was kind of one of my like
sales pitches for the franchise.
You really, it really can be,you can take what you want.
I mean, there's so much stuffthat contradicts itself.
It's fun to just think about it.
It's fun to experience it over.
It's fun to come up with a new theory.
That's why I wanted tocome up with a new theory.

(01:51:11):
It's just like a fun thing to do.
I love watching these movies andjust thinking about what it could
be because there's no clear answer.

Chris (01:51:18):
Yeah.

DK (01:51:18):
That's why phantasm rules.

Chris (01:51:21):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, as, as we were talkingabout earlier, I don't, I don't
know why that doesn't piss meoff, but somehow it doesn't

Bones (01:51:33):
have, have you guys surely you have, you've had an experience.
We're at the age where we wouldwatch television weekly and then we
transitioned to be able to binge it viaDVD or streaming releases or whatever.
For context, uh, Community is probablyone of my all time favorite shows.

(01:51:54):
It's a show that I managedto watch from premiere.
I would watch every episode, dayof or next day, and I followed
that through its ups and downs.
Harmon being fired, the weird gas leakseason four, its return to, you know,
through five, the who, uh, Yahoo season.
Loved it.

(01:52:15):
A few years ago, binged it allwith my wife as like, this would
explain a lot about me if youwere to watch this with me.
When it is super condensed, itis much easier to see the cracks.
And so to your point, I totally agree.
I think I agreed with you on theepisode that, yeah, uh, Phantasm as

(01:52:38):
a franchise, you can pick your ownlittle story and build it within that.
This is what he had.
This is what he ended up.
Obviously, he made somenarrative decisions to do that.
I do think, unfortunately, pushing it alltogether has the inverse effect where I
think, oh, I now see all of the faults.

(01:52:59):
It's kind of a bummer, you know.
Joel McHale shouldn't have got that big.
It's he should be fit.
He should be doing keto,but he shouldn't be massive.
It's contrary to the character.
You know, it's Donald Glover.
He got too confident.
It fucked him up job child.
Just Gambino kind of kind of throwsit off You know you see that when it's
condensed but when it's spread out andyou have time to breathe and you can

(01:53:24):
think about it in between episodes oror entries in the franchise Mm hmm.
I think it's a little bit more forgiving.

Chris (01:53:33):
Yeah, I gotta agree.
And it's something I tried to explainto people that I don't think I can
never quite articulate it correctly, butthere is something to be said about, um,
just growing up in that time, like thedelayed gratification and like how you
would have an issue of Nintendo power.
And there would just be like, fivesentences about some game, who knows when

(01:53:58):
it's going to come out, if it ever does.
It's like, almost the most fun thingabout childhood was thinking about
when is that going to come out,and like, how great it's gonna be.

DK (01:54:10):
And back then, you didn't have the internet, you didn't know when,
and then you'd be in a store, andit would be on the fucking shelf.
Yeah.
That moment when you go, oh my god, thereit is, it's coming home, I can't wait.

Chris (01:54:23):
So on the one hand, if, if I had been of age, like, cognizant
enough to know that this was comingout, as it was released, I think, Yes.
I would have probably had a lot of fun.
Like, Oh, three just dropped and I got towait five years and for those five years,
I'm just thinking about it in my head.

(01:54:43):
There's no one's talkingabout this online.
I'm coming up with my own shit.
It would have been a lot of fun.
But then I also understand onthe other hand, like you've spent
so much time thinking about it.
That's probably why peoplehate ravager so much.

DK (01:54:57):
You just described the star Wars thing for me.
Because we grew up in a time whenthere were three Star Wars movies,
you spend so much time thinking aboutit and sure, there were the expanding
universe books, which I read a lot of,but a lot of it is just in your head.
A lot of it is just like, I am sure thesehow these are how the characters would be.
This is how they would be in my head.
I'm thinking of this and that.

(01:55:19):
And it all is a certain way.
And then Phantom Menace comesout and you're like, This isn't
what I thought at all, likewhat, what's happening, you know?

Chris (01:55:26):
You know, you fucking cheered when Duel of the Fates started playing,
and the door opened up and he fuckingignites a double bladed lightsaber.
Listen,

DK (01:55:34):
I watched the trailer so many times, I loved it.
I mean, yeah, I, I was a believer, butI do remember I was in Taekwondo at
the time and I went to see the moviebefore a practice, what do you call
Taekwondo before a training session?
What do you call aTaekwondo session before you

Bones (01:55:48):
do your kata?
Sparring session?

DK (01:55:50):
I don't know.
It was just like a, whatever, a session.
All right.
I went to see the movie beforea session and the guys in there
were like, Oh, how was it?
How was the new Star Wars?
And I was like, youknow, I think I liked it.
But.
Like, it didn't really feellike Star Wars, and I remember,
like, them laughing at me.
And they were wrong.

Chris (01:56:08):
You're just wise beyond your years, because we're probably about the same age,
and I was just Oh, don't get me wrong.

DK (01:56:15):
I was into it.
I was super into it.
Darth Maul, I had a Darth Maul posterbefore the movie even came out.
Hell yeah.

Chris (01:56:21):
And a Jar Jar poster, I'll admit it.
Hey, Jar Jar, to bring it back tosomething, you know, to tie this all
together with Phantasm and Talkingabout JJ Abrams earlier and so he's the
reason that this got a 4k restoration.
And if you remember back 2016, therewere not a lot of films that had
gotten that treatment like he was abig deal is a huge fan of this and

(01:56:45):
did the soundtrack to alien factor.
So that's where that little, and he wasprobably like 15 when that came out.
Amazing is that

DK (01:56:53):
well, also in star Wars, captain phasma.
He has the chrome armor, whichis a reference to Phantasm.

Chris (01:56:59):
And I can definitely understand why he would love this so much.
He was probably like the same age as Mike.
They're probably the same age.
And you gotta think back to 1979.
There's not a lot of like Movieslike phantasm that are kids
centered without being childish.
And so I think that's probably,I probably resonated with him

DK (01:57:23):
a lot.
So why in the mystery of it all?
Like I remember that I thinkit's probably pretty famous.
The JJ Abrams talking about the mystery.
Is it a mystery box thing?
Have you guys seen that?
Yeah.
That's, that's what phantasm is.
The whole movie is like a mystery box.

Chris (01:57:37):
That's what I'm saying.
You don't

DK (01:57:38):
really,

Chris (01:57:38):
yeah, people shit on him for it, but we love phantasm for it.
So what's, what's the difference?
Is something that's really rules?
That could be it.
I haven't been able to figure it out.

Bones (01:57:51):
Uh, we love phantasm, but we get to the end and there is a little bit of, uh,
Right into fantastic four we say like thatwould have been a great ending to that.
That's a good cap.
I think our problem with J.
J.
Abrams is you can only do so much mysterywhile continuing like snowballing mystery,

(01:58:14):
then it just, it becomes exhausting
speaking for myself as a,you know, lost one time fan.
Yeah,

Chris (01:58:24):
somehow the tall man returned,
but

DK (01:58:29):
that literally happens.
You must understand that thatliterally he pulls, he throws his,
the other one just through the thing.
Like, Oh, throw that one away.
He's dead.
So it's incredible.
Just a new one just shows up.
And I love that, but in anyother thing, you're right.
That would be the mostfrustrating thing of all time.
We did all this work to stop the tallman and then another one just shows up.

(01:58:49):
Are you kidding me?

Chris (01:58:50):
Yeah.
Yeah.

DK (01:58:51):
Uh, but I'm delighted when I see this for the first time.

Chris (01:58:54):
Yeah.
And I think one of the things we, wedidn't talk about that much is how, like
how funny a lot of these movies are.
And it's not, it took me likefour or five watches of the first
phantasm to really get that.
Instead of like seeing it throughthe lens of this is low budget,
like these are bad performances.

(01:59:14):
I don't know why I didn't pickup on Jody closing the box and
saying, Oh, Okay, I believe you.
I believe you.
It's funny.
That's supposed to be funny, and it is.
It's really

Bones (01:59:24):
good.
And it's satisfying.
They can be both.
They can exist together, you know.
You make an excellent point about,It's a kid protagonist who you
root for, but it's not childish.

Chris (01:59:39):
Yeah.
That's Can you think ofany other ones like that?
Not from before this.
No.
Yeah.
Because I think I mean, marketing,making movies for kids was not
even really a concept back then.
And this wasn't made for kids, but byits nature, it's every kid that goes
and sees this is going to relate to it.

DK (02:00:02):
Well, again, we know Coscarelli was very young when he made it.
So I think him having that perspective.
You know, that absolutely hasto inform why this is the way
it is and maybe why it works.

Chris (02:00:14):
Yeah.
And one of the things I picked up whenI watched this a few years ago that you
guys mentioned when you're talking aboutis that this is like such an A24 movie
where it's just like weird shit happensand they, oh, it's about grief and trauma.
Yeah.
Like that, the firstmovie is totally that.

(02:00:34):
And that's another thing, like,I kind of fucking hate those
movies, but it works here.
Mm
hmm.
Don't know what it is.

Bones (02:00:46):
Hey, cause it's, it's not exhausting.
I think a modern grief tale,they just, it's, it's too somber.
And exhausting and I, if I'm alreadyfeeling grief and I need relief, I
don't want to sit for two hours andfeel and feel that and then get a
little cathartic five minute button.

DK (02:01:06):
You know what?
I've absolutely started to go.
Is this a grief one?
I can't do this right now.
Legitimately a couple of times recently.
I've been like, I cannotdo a grief right now.
I can't do it.

Bones (02:01:16):
Yeah, we talk often about like tension and terror, like if you, if
you're setting out to, this is just goingto be tension, slow burn all the way.
If you can commit and, and execute it,I'm all for it, but I much more prefer
tension with a little bit of break toa big buildup in the slow burn context.

(02:01:40):
And this isn't a slow burn.
I mean, it's, you get weird.
It delivers, constantly.
It rolls over itself.
Here's a goofy finger.
Here's a naked chick.
Here's, yeah.

Chris (02:01:52):
Yeah, absolutely.

Bones (02:01:53):
Keep you engaged.

Chris (02:01:55):
Well, I mean, not to put too fine a point on it, but I think it's safe to
say we all love phantasm to some degree.

Bones (02:02:01):
Yeah.

Chris (02:02:02):
Do you have any final thoughts on, uh, this revision before we move forward?

Bones (02:02:08):
I would say, check it out.
If you've seen all five andmaybe you need a little bit of
a, of a refresher, throw it on.
Um, maybe it'll spark someinspiration like it did for DK.
And you'll think, wow, maybethe next time I go through it,
I can look through this lens.
You know, it scratches the phantasmitch, but if you're truly trying

(02:02:31):
to get a particular vibe, I wouldsay, you know, pick out your
favorite of the franchise instead.

DK (02:02:40):
Yeah.
Bones absolutely agree witheverything you're saying.
It is, like I said, it's sortof a clip show situation, but
not one that fans will dislike.
I think, like I said, itcan be frustrating, but.
If you're just looking to kind of getthe phantasm vibes and you kind of want
to see moments from all of them thatare great, this is a good way to do it.

(02:03:00):
Um, I don't know how available thisactually is for people, but, um, I,
again, I did not hate watching itand I watched it a couple of times.
So, you know, um, there's somethingthere and if nothing else, I like
what it makes me think about.
I like that it.
Kind of gets my wheels turningand I go, well, what would I do?
You know, how would I stickone and four together?

(02:03:21):
You know, um, whatever it is, butyeah, I, I, I think it has value.
And, um, I'm glad we gotto watch it for sure.
Yeah.

Chris (02:03:29):
I applaud Mr.
Torres Torres for, I mean, he'sobviously a huge fan of all these movies.
You don't spend the amount of timehe had to have spent doing this
if you don't care about phantasm.
Well, can I say the editing was excellent?
Yeah, that is one thing that I feellike we probably should highlight is
that the choices of scenes may Haverubbed us the wrong way in certain

(02:03:53):
parts, but the editing itself is good.

DK (02:03:57):
Did you, did you notice any bad edits?
Like I didn't notice anyweird transitions, really.
Nothing too jarring.
No, because like a lot of timesin these fan edits, you get like
music that doesn't match up withthe scenes and all that stuff.
He did a really good job with that stuff.

Chris (02:04:12):
No, I didn't notice anything.
And as I mentioned, he is a filmmaker.
He's directed a few shortsand a feature length.
He does his own editing on those.
And I think it shows inthis phantasm revision.
Obviously an excellent

DK (02:04:28):
editor, no question.

Bones (02:04:29):
I want to seek out his other edits, for sure.
There's an Evil Dead one, right?
Yeah.

Chris (02:04:36):
I believe so.
Yeah, I don't think I mentionedthat, but I think there is.
What do you do with that?
You just stick Do you stickone on the Do you mess with
one, or do you start with two?
Cut off one, and then justglue two and three end to end.
Well, I guess you

DK (02:04:50):
could I guess you could Have one happen and then you cut off the first
10, 15 minutes of Evil Dead two.

Chris (02:05:00):
Yeah, right.
That's the way you do it.
You could also edit one and twotogether to just, 'cause two is kind
of a remake, but with a higher budget.

DK (02:05:10):
Right.
I just, we have to end up with a portalto the medieval times, so we have to,
as long as we ended up there, I guess.
Yeah.
But I think like if you, and I know thisis what, what I'm talking about right now
is a completely different discussion, but.
You, you could do, yeah, cut thebeginning off of Evil Dead 2, and then
basically have it like Ash is alreadythere, he's tried to escape the cabin,

(02:05:30):
he has failed to escape the cabin, andthen, you know, Bobby Joe and the rest
show up, and uh, he has to deal with all

Chris (02:05:37):
that.
I'll tell you my fan edit of Evil Deadis Army of Darkness in its entirety.
And nothing else.
Do you have a preferred versionof that or a preferred ending?
So I, I think it's the ending thatI have seen most recently is the
one where he goes into a cave.
I think it's been a long timesince I've seen, cause that's

(02:05:59):
not the original ending, is it?
Well, it is the, it is theoriginal ending, but they,
it's, it's not the theatrical.
It has been a long time since I'veseen the theatrical because for
whatever reason, All the DVDs Icould find were the cave ending.
So I don't even remember what it is.

DK (02:06:15):
Okay, well, I'll tell you this, the theatrical ending is great.
It's, he's in Esmart, and uh, a demonshows up, a deadite shows up, and
you get an awesome line from BruceCampbell of, Lady, I'm afraid I'm gonna
have to ask you to leave the store.
And she's like bouncing on atrampoline and he's blasting her.

(02:06:35):
And, uh, it's got a nice little buttonwhere he does get to say that, uh, that
he does the Hail to the King again.
It's worth looking at ifyou haven't in a while.
Um, but that is another movie with,like, a cool amount of alternate
scenes or alternate endings whereyou can kind of play with that and
put different versions together.
There's different, like, there'sdifferent lines of, um, good,

(02:06:55):
bad on the guy with the gun.
He has some alternate linesthere that are pretty cool.
Evil Dead rules.

Bones (02:07:01):
Yeah.
Uh, DK, when we were messagingback and forth, you said
something about a Batman edit.
Yeah.
Which is the audio from theBatman over the animated series.

DK (02:07:12):
That's what I read that it was and I'm intrigued.

Bones (02:07:14):
I yeah,

DK (02:07:16):
absolutely intrigued.
I watched like a little teaserof it and it like totally worked.
It absolutely made sense.

Bones (02:07:22):
Okay,

DK (02:07:22):
so we got to we got to find it.
We got to find a way to get it.

Chris (02:07:25):
I'll find it for you.

Bones (02:07:26):
Okay.

Chris (02:07:26):
Thank you!
Um, yeah.
Well thank you guys so much forcome for going through this with me.
But before we get out of here,we'll lighten the mood a little bit.
I have a little game for youboys that I like to call.
Did they die in a car wreck?
. I'll say the name of a famous person.

(02:07:47):
Oh shit, you guys buzz in by callingout your name and you have to tell me,
did this person die in a car wreck?
So, pretty simple rules, right?
Yes.
Okay.
First one.
Sam Kinnison.

Bones (02:08:03):
Bones.

Chris (02:08:04):
Bones.

Bones (02:08:05):
He did not

Chris (02:08:05):
die in a

Bones (02:08:06):
car wreck.

Chris (02:08:06):
Sorry, he died in a car wreck.

Bones (02:08:09):
What?!

Chris (02:08:09):
He did.

Bones (02:08:11):
Was it coke fueled?

Chris (02:08:12):
No, unfortunately he was sober and killed by a drunk driver.
Jesus Christ!
The irony of it all.
No points.
On the board.
Tippi Hedren.
Did she die in a car wreck?
DK.
Go ahead.
She did not die in a car wreck.
That's correct.
She's still alive.

(02:08:33):
Damn it.
Good job.
General George S.
Patton.
D.
K.
Bones.
I heard D.
K.
first.
I heard, uh He did die in a car wreck.
Yes, he did.
So that's two points DK zero points bones.
Hey, thanks for reminding me Sonny Bono

Bones (02:08:54):
bones deep bones ski

Chris (02:08:56):
accident.
Yes skiing.
Yep Absolutely two toone Tennessee Williams
DK DK did not die in a car.
I said correct.
He choked on the cap froma bottle of eye drops

(02:09:20):
Three to one in favor of DK.
Mark Bolin.
Bones.
Bones.

Bones (02:09:29):
Yes.

Chris (02:09:30):
Yes, he died in a car wreck.
You guys know who that is, right?
Singer of T Rex?
Yes, I mean, I probablyshould say these things.
So Sonny Bono is not a currentreference that people know

Bones (02:09:44):
Shout out to Laundry Dan for informing that for me.

Chris (02:09:48):
Okay next one Barbara Eden genie from I dream of genie
DK DK Yes, she died in the car.
She's still alive fucknext one Paul Walker

Bones (02:10:05):
Bones.

Chris (02:10:06):
Bones.

Bones (02:10:07):
Uh, to be fair, DK was drinking.
That's my fault.
You get it.
Uh, yes.
He did die in a car wreck.

Chris (02:10:15):
R.
I.
P.
Paul Walker.
We still miss you.

Bones (02:10:18):
Last

Chris (02:10:19):
one.
So that's 3 2, right?

Bones (02:10:22):
I thought it was 3

Chris (02:10:23):
3.
Okay.
We'll go with 3 3.
Oh, maybe.

Bones (02:10:27):
I got, I got T Rex and Bono.

Chris (02:10:31):
We'll go with three to three.
Okay.
To make things interesting,because this is the last one.
Macho man Randy Savage.
DK.
DK.

DK (02:10:40):
I believe that he had a heart attack while driving, so
yes, he died in a car accident.
Macho man did die in a car wreck.

Bones (02:10:49):
But he had a But he had a heart attack.
He had a heart attack.
But he was in a

DK (02:10:53):
car accident!
He was in the car.
He was driving.
I think.

Bones (02:10:57):
I guess the language is he died in a, he died in a car wreck of a car wreck.

Chris (02:11:03):
It's a technicality because even if Jody died in a car wreck, it
was probably because of the tall man.

Bones (02:11:10):
I thought it was an STD.
Yeah.
Maybe an STD from the lady told me he

Chris (02:11:15):
was scratching the

Bones (02:11:17):
fastest case of syphilis ever recorded.

Chris (02:11:19):
Wow.
So yeah, that was, uh, I will.
Okay.
Great job DK.
You're the champ.
I'm kind of relieved that you wonbecause I'm gonna send you out a
prize, and I know that Bones despisesall physical objects of any sort.
So, thank you.
It's a lot easier to think ofsomething to send you than the

(02:11:41):
guy that hates physical media.

Bones (02:11:44):
Hate physical media,

Chris (02:11:46):
come on.
I've I've heard it told that way.

Bones (02:11:51):
I just think we need to grow as a species.
That's all

Chris (02:11:57):
So that was a phantasm revision.
I'm pretty burnt out on phantasm atthis point But thank you guys for coming
on and breathing life into this deadformat with me And please take this
opportunity to tell the fine folksout there Where they can find you,
and anything you've got in the word.

DK (02:12:16):
Well, um, I have a music project called Home is Midnight.
We have an album coming out.
There have been some delays.
We're trying to get it out thisOctober, but if it's not October,
I think it'll be November.
It will be, I think,before the end of the year.
It's like electronic stuff, like um, Whatif John Carpenter was a little poppier and
sucked and uh, we've got female vocals.

(02:12:38):
It's actually pretty I reallylike it So, um, we actually have
a song in the upcoming movie.
Uh ghost game directed by jillJill G, um, who did the, um,
she did the movie The Stylist.
So, um, look forward tohearing us in that movie.
Oh my god, that's amazing.
We just found out that comes in October.
And one more thing for me.
Uh, I do have a solo electronic projectwhere it's sort of like retro horror slash

(02:13:04):
video gamey slash sort of synth stuff.
And I did, my most recentrelease was a phantasm themed EP.
So I feel like I shouldprobably bring that up.
Um, it's at D K R E F F T.
Dot bandcamp.
com.
Or you can just search for, um, justsearch for DKR EFFT on like Spotify.
Anywhere you listen tomusic, um, it's on there.

(02:13:26):
Um, the cover is like ahand holding a sphere.
You'll know beautiful bones.

Bones (02:13:33):
I should have gone first.
Uh, you can find me weekly onthe, uh, five day rentals podcast.
Um, and also, uh, be buildinga shed in the coming weeks.
I'm looking forward to that.
So, um, if you're a psycho fanand you've, uh, You know, figured
out my location on Google maps.

(02:13:53):
When that refreshes in a fewmonths, you might, uh, you
might see the shed on there.

DK (02:13:58):
Are you going to do like, uh, videos on how you did it?

Bones (02:14:02):
No, I can't tell you how many times I can't tell you how many times I got to
tell my wife, like, I don't need a photo.
I don't need to record this.
I don't need to

DK (02:14:09):
do so.
You can remember what it was beforeand then look how good it is.
Now you finished

Bones (02:14:13):
it.
She loves that shit.
She's she'll come out andsay, did you take photos?
I said, no, no.
My phone's only here so Ican listen to a podcast.

Chris (02:14:24):
That's fair.
Still waiting on those videosof you tearing down buildings.

Bones (02:14:30):
The bummer is, is I inherited a yard without a shed had there been
a shed, I would have shot a pilot of.
Uh, bones escapes or as a workingtitle, you know, just want to say both
of you have appeared on five rentals.
We always love having you it's we haveto restrict how often we want to nag you
and have you on and DK does our music.

(02:14:52):
So if you need another taste of hisbeautiful tunes, check us out on five.
Yeah.

Chris (02:14:58):
Well, I'm the solo podcast.
So my restriction of me askingyou guys to be on is going to
be when you tell me to fuck off.
So.

DK (02:15:09):
Is this a good time to slip in that I think Pin was getting revenge?
That's all I'm going to say, yes.

Chris (02:15:13):
Absolutely he was,

Bones (02:15:14):
it's

Chris (02:15:15):
in the book.

Bones (02:15:16):
A book is not a movie, okay?

Chris (02:15:19):
A book is a movie that stays.
To sort of halfway quote the Dark Crystal.

Bones (02:15:32):
Goddammit.

Chris (02:15:33):
And Fade Out, another puppet movie.
So yeah, on behalf ofBones and DK, I'm Chris.
This has been Dead Formats.
If you have any questions about theshow, or if you have a Dead Format
topic that you'd like to hear me cover,or if you have any suggestions for
potential guests, Please reach out.
You can email me at deadformats, pod at gmail.

(02:15:56):
com, or you can reach out to meon Instagram at dead formats pod.
Thanks for listening.

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