The Two Jakes (1990) with The Weekly Podcast Massacre

Episode Transcript
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(00:11):
And on top of that news today thatReggie Bannister from Fantasm fame is
having some health issues and went into

Greg (00:18):
hospice care, man, it, it's, it's, it's rough.
Like I, I feel like, I don't know,time time's, you're, we're gonna
lose all the icons as time goes on.
And it feels like it's, it's, it'stime for us and our generation to
kinda like, see these people, youknow, kind of, kind of go on their way.
It's, it's tough.

Murph (00:36):
It is weird for me because I was never into fantasm until, I mean, when
Joe Bob covered them a couple yearsago, I had never seen any of them and I
had just listened to your first episodeabout it and I am interested in this
fan cut because it, it, there is likekernels of really great ideas there.
Yeah.
It's just so spread out and I feellike the way that this edit might have

(01:00):
been like, kind of captures this weirdetherealness that there we're going for.
Yeah.
But he always had likegreat emotional scenes also.
Oh yeah.
The amazing comedic scenes as well.
Like he could, he could flip like that.
So I, he was the very, uh, the, themost that I appreciated out of watching
all of those in a short amount of time.

(01:21):
Yeah.
I mean it's, it's weird 'cause he's like.
Not really in the first one that much,but then, you know, studio wanted
to replace the guy Michael Baldwin.
So then Reggie becomes likedefacto main character for
basically the next four movies.
So

Greg (01:36):
yeah.
No Fanm without him.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It is, it is such a bizarre,like, hi, his, his role in
that first movie is so strange.
Like, he is like the, the friend of themain character's brother who happens
to be an ice cream man, and then he'sa series lead by the next century.
Like, he's something I Ilove that first movie a lot.
That first movie to me is, is so,yeah, I, I like the whole franchise,

(01:58):
but that first one to me is sofar beyond end of the others.
But it is, it always throws me that itends with like, again, this random ice
cream man, like hugging this kid beinglike, your brother's car run, Jodi.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, uh, it's tough.
I mean, but who's gonnareplace these icons?
I just, I'm not sure anyone'sreally stepping up, but maybe

(02:19):
they don't have the chance.
You know, the current setof icons still living.
I,
we, it's hard to make an impact when like these types of genre movies
are just going straight to streaming.
Like, I, I like shutter a lot.
Shutter is great, but like a shutteroriginalist not having the same cultural
impact as these theatric releasethings, you know, 30 plus years ago.

(02:39):
Like, it's, it's just not the same.
It's, it's just inherently going to aniche audience that's not, and it's not
gonna blow up the way it did before.

Murph (02:46):
Yeah.
Or it's turned into some kind of likelimited series and it doesn't Yeah.
Doesn't have that same exact impact thatit would like as a theatrical movie.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's tough.
I mean that, I mean, that's why Ijust watch old shit exclusively.

Greg (03:02):
I, I'm getting to that point.
Like, we talk every week about newreleases on, on our show, and like
Murphy, you do a fantastic jobof like ca staying current Right.
And going to theaters and seeing things.
And I, I love going to the movies.
Obviously.
It's like one of my favorite things to do,but I, I am finding it just less and less.
Like something I want to do.
I'm just like, well, if I can stay in andwatch, you know, a couple like fucking

(03:24):
forties westerns nowadays, that's,that's more what I'm more likely to do.
Yeah.
So it's just,

Murph (03:28):
Greg, you've transitioned into your thirties quite nicely, I must say.
I, I think you went straight to

Greg (03:34):
sixties.
I, I think I did.
I said, I said to to my significant other,the other day, I was like, I think I've
already entered my, like, my grandparents'age and I don't even have the chi a child
just to, you know, to kick that phase off.
Like I've just skippedstraight to life Yes.
In my sixties and seventies.
It's a beautiful thing to see.
Mm-hmm.
And yeah, I mean, Murph, the amountof movies you watch is insane.

(03:55):
I'm sure you've seen more new movies thisyear already than I will the entire year.

Murph (04:01):
I, well, I try to count the, like, new viewings that I've seen and I'll count
older things, but yeah, I, I do enjoygoing to the movies as much as I can.
It's just always something that,yeah, like it's been a comforting
thing when my parents got divorced.
Like that's what me and my dad did.
So it was just like automatically like,oh, this is, this is a great thing.
This is bonding.

(04:21):
This is Yeah.
How you escape reality.
Yeah.
Into forties Los Angeles.
And with that, I guess, we'll,we'll probably just get into it.
Uh, hello everyone and welcome toDead Formats, a movie podcast about
those old, familiar films you onlythink you've never seen before.
I'm your host, Chris, and this episodewe're going to be discussing the two Jakes

(04:44):
from 1990 and today I am joined by twovery special guests soon to be cooling
their dicks down at the county morgue.
Greg Murph, welcome.
How are you doing this evening?
I'm doing great, thank you.
Having

Greg (04:57):
us, us.
Yeah, it's so good.
I mean, the best line inthe movie by far, right?
Like I don't know what,what comes close, but yes.
Hello.
I was

Murph (05:03):
continuously disappointed with the voiceover and just his performances
and and the dialogue in a lot of it,but that line was just the whole movie.
Golden.
Yeah.
Immediately.
Yeah.
So Greg and Murph are the co-hostsof the weekly podcast massacre.
So please fellas tell the listeners alittle bit about what you do on your show.

Greg (05:23):
Sure.
Um, yeah, Murph has mentioned to me,um, yeah, so on our show every single
month we kind of look at a new theme,um, and specifically relating to horror.
So it's either a sub genre of horroror just like, I dunno, a concept that
binds for horror movies together.
Um, and so like, to give an example,we have, we have, uh, April is
all like split personality movies.

(05:45):
It's all movies of characterswho have more than one

Murph (05:48):
identity crisis.
April identity crisis April.
Yeah.
Settled on.
Yeah.

Greg (05:51):
Wow.
We try to, we try to have a nicealliterative like, pun like,
name for the, the, the month,but it doesn't always work out.
Um, but yeah, so like we've done,uh, a lot of themes at this point.
We've done over almostclose to 200 episodes.
And so like, uh, we've covereda lot of different themes.
We've done cannibal movies.
We have done like movie horrormovies about siblings horror movies,
about like, uh, you know, severalghost months and aliens and Right.

(06:14):
Food.
Everything you imagine.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, uh, yeah, that's what we do.
We talk about horror movies, uh, prettyex you know, sometimes we bend the rules
and talk about horror adjacent things.
Right.
But yeah, we try tokeep it horror focused.

Murph (06:27):
And the real special thing is, you know, sometimes
we don't just talk about movies.
We try to be funny.

Greg (06:32):
It's occasionally, yeah.
Yeah.
We attempt,
um, I mean.
I know you recently did a littlethings category, but I think you guys
haven't specifically done puppets yet.
No.
So that, that's my, that's my suggestion.

Murph (06:47):
We did do demonic toys versus puppet masters, but it was so bad
we had to do another movie as well.
So it was also VersusAlien versus Predator,

Greg (06:58):
right?
Yeah.
Uh, we're saving the, the public, thepuppet month is gonna, like, we know
that's gonna be the, the what takesus into the stratosphere, our podcast.
So we're not ready for it yet.
Yeah.
We're not ready for thelevel of fame and notoriety.
We've

Murph (07:10):
done pin, so we, we have done revenge movie.

Greg (07:13):
Oh, taking a stance.
Yeah.
Still waiting on your
response.
Mr. Niman, I emailed you a few days agoasking if it is in fact a revenge movie.
I'm eagerly awaiting youremail response, but, uh, yeah.
So this week for the first time, uh,we're actually going to be covering a
movie that was picked out by the guests.
So I'm wondering how did youguys land on the two Jakes.

Murph (07:39):
Well, I guess it was something that I had thought about, you know,
obs of something obscure that was, thatwas really what I was trying to go for.
And it reminded me of a, of a story whereI was, um, going on a hike with a friend
in Forest Park and here in Portland, andhe had just watched Chinatown and we were
talking about it and he was, you know,getting into it and how it was so good.

(08:00):
He was like, you know, and that's likea movie they'll never make a sequel to.
And I go, well, they didmake a sequel actually.
And he screams at the top ofhis lungs, like, in the middle
of this park, just like, what?
And we have to have this wholeconversation where I tell him like, yeah,
actually Jack Nicholson made a movie.
Like, this is his third directorialmovie and a sequel to Chinatown

(08:22):
that nobody knows about.
Yeah, it's, it's pretty nuts.
So typically I go for more obscureselections, but just to give people an
idea of like the relative obscurity ofChinatown versus two Jakes on letterbox.
Chinatown has 540,000 views, and the twoJakes has 14,000 views, so not even a 10.

(08:48):
Yeah, it is.
Uh, no one knows about this movie.

Greg (08:51):
Yeah.
And I, I feel like, justlike it, nobody know nobody.
It's never dis Chinatown isstill discussed like, so much.
Right.
It, it's still brought up, like a bookcame out about the production of it just
a couple years ago, and nobody is writingbooks about the sequel to it, about
directed by this, by a major Hollywoodstar and within a really insane cast of
people, like big names that people mm-hmm.

(09:13):
Like love, like I don't ever hearit discussed in terms of like
Harvey Tel movies or like Meg, youknow, Meg Tilly, who kind of is
more of a cult figure, I would say.
Mm-hmm.
But it's never reallytalked about how she is.
Right.
One of the leads of this film,uh, you know, it's, yeah.
It's just, it's never talked about.
And, uh, I had never seen it before.
Merv suggested it, but I kept havingthis because, well, you would also.

(09:35):
I had also never seen Chinatown.
So that is something, yes, me either,it would be weird if I had seen this.
Oh wow.
Wow.
Hey, hell yeah.
Thank God I'm not alone in, inhaving skipped it for so many years.
But, um, like I had only ever heard badthings about two Jakes, but I'm like,
I kind of knew what the, who was init and it was directed by Nicholson.
And I was always this kind of questionof like, well, how bad can it be?

(09:55):
Like mm-hmm.
Is it, does it deserve the weirdobscurity that has compared to Chinatown?
And so going into this, you know, watchingChinatown first, I also had the idea
of like, well how good can this be?
That like, the secret is soderided and, uh, I guess to reveal
how I feel about both movies.
I don't think this is as bad as peoplesay, uh, it's not Chinatown, it isn't.

(10:16):
But also I think Chinatown, well great.
Like to me it was also kind of like,you know, I see how it made a splash,
but I'm also not like, you know, fallinglike down over Chinatown either, I guess.
So, yeah.
See that's crazy.
That's pretty much,
uh, yeah, that's how I felt too.
Alright, alright.
I'll be the defender

Murph (10:34):
here.
And also, like,
it's one of those, like, not onlydo people like, it just never gets
brought up, but not even like asa throwaway, like no, you have to
somehow stumble on how this exists.
Like, if you go to the Wikipediaarticle for Chinatown, it may not
even say that there's a sequel to it.
It's just like, it's out there.

(10:54):
Some people know about it, but.
I would wonder if they even talkabout it in the Chinatown book at all.
Yeah, I'm very, it's notcurious even gonna be a
punchline to a joke.
Right.
Because not enough peopleare gonna know it to get it.
Exactly.
And so, because this was a movie thatwas brought to me by you guys, I kind
of had to do a little bit of thinkingon how to justify this as a dead

(11:17):
format, which is really just a nebulousframing device to talk about weird or
obscure things doesn't actually matter.
But given that there was some reachrecent controversy on your show
about possible category fraud.
Yeah.
I wanted to make sure that this pickwas a hundred percent above board.
So, well,
I'm glad we could break the format so early on.

(11:39):
Actually,
no, I think it's good because I thinkoperating under the idea that the way
you get people to listen to your showis not by talking exclusively about
things that no one's ever heard of.
Right.
So the two Jakes is kind of like, thisis oddly enough, the popular movie
that people are gonna stumble upon this

Chris (12:00):
podcast for.
But yeah, so it's a legacy sequel, youknow, which at the time was a bit unusual.
But, uh, every other movie thatcomes out today is a legacy sequel,
so that's not a dead format.
And also at first blush, it's kind of aJack Nicholson vanity project, which, you
know, you could maybe make the argumentthat those sort of things like that

(12:24):
type of vanity project has died out.
But the more I dug into it, the moreI found out is like, it, it appears
to be one, but it really isn't.

Greg (12:32):
No, it it, it was kind of like an object, an obligation that he Yes.
Like necess, you know, instead oflike something he wanted to do.
Yeah.
Greatness was thrust upon him and he Yes.
Accepted.
Yeah.
But when I talk about this idea ofdead formats, what it ultimately
comes down to is just types offilms that aren't made today.

(12:54):
And a type of movie that isn't beingmade today is the Jack Nicholson
film because he has not appeared in amovie since the 2010 Romantic comedy.
How do You Know?
Which is a film we all know and love.
Um, how do you know?
He was present for the recent SaturdayNight Live 50th anniversary show.

(13:14):
And I did scrub through itsolely to see that part.
And he is literally just sitting in hisseat in the audience and says, ladies and
gentlemen, Adam Sandler, and that's it.
That's Oh,
what a performance though.
Yeah.
Did he have a vat of chili with himlike he did usually at the Lakers games.
Okay.
He did
have his weird like kle hat andpurple tinted glasses though.

(13:37):
So he needs those.

Murph (13:39):
Yes.
I I'm hoping he does make anappearance at the Oscars this year.
Like it's been a while.
Just like front row center.

Greg (13:46):
Yeah.
Uh, I think unless BillyCrystal is hosting, he's not
a, he's not gonna be there.
Right?
Like that's, that's his criteriais if Billy is there, he is there.
But, uh, I landed the samejustification for this of like, there,
there is no more technical moviesout there after, how do you know?
Yeah.
Um, but yeah, like, and watching this, andI also, uh, not too long ago, watched, um.

(14:08):
The remake he did of, uh, thePostman always Rings twice.
And I also landed on whenwas the last, like, kind of
classically noir movie released?
Mm-hmm.
Like when was the last time we hadlike, this guy's a private detective?
Right.
You know, like investigating, okay.
A sorted affair or something like that.
Does that even exist anymoreas like a type of movie?

(14:30):
Inherent vice kind of.
See,
that was the last one I thought of as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
Like the, I mean, even that, likea period piece about like forties
Los Angeles too, or, or that'sthe, I think sixties, but like, um,

Murph (14:41):
the rest of them are just like noir inspired, like drive is, is tired.
The like Yeah.
Feeling that it's going for, but it, it's,you know, taken in, into a new genre.
Yes.

Greg (14:51):
Right.
The other one I came up with wasmaybe Richard Link, glider's.
Hitman kind of in that, it'sabout like a, a, you know, it's a
crime based thing with like thesekind of morally gray characters.
Right.
That one is a lot more fat,more satirical, fem fatal.
Yes.
Yeah.
Uh, and that's the closest we got.
And I, I, I'm, I am almost like mm-hmm.
Confident in saying that the noirgenre is a dead format at this point.

(15:13):
Yeah.
Like the kind of, the kind of classicnoir is, is over and done with.
I think it's, it's a genre that may justnot be for me because I've really, like,
I've seen so many movies and I justhaven't sought that genre out very much.
Yeah.
I looked at a list on letter boxes, like.
All noir films, and it was like900 something I've seen 11 total.

(15:35):
And most of those I wouldnot consider noir films.
Like is Scarface or Mor Knight of the Hunter.
There's really like noir films.
Knight of the Hunter
is the closest out those, I think.
No, but like, I mean,there's crossover, right?
There's like crossover with the gangsterfood, like gangster movies and then
like, even like horrible detectivemovies and Cry movie, whatever, that
it's, it's all granular and likethat granularity is like what our

(15:58):
podcast thrives on, but, you know.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, I mean like, I, I think interms of like, uh, I don't know, like
noir, to me it is so nebulous, but I, Ithink like the classic definition is it
has to focus on a crime of some sort.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And maybe like an investigation orlike, like a dive into like a CD
underbelly of some of some kind.

(16:19):
And, and even those rules aren'tlike, as, aren't aren't that
airtight, but yeah, a lot of

Murph (16:24):
mood lighting.
I think that's what it requires.

Greg (16:27):
I mean, yeah, I guess there's that too, right?
Yeah.

Murph (16:30):
Which they try in this movie.
They try, they don't succeed.

Greg (16:34):
I would say more than I would say they succeed.
I think this movie looks fantastic.
I think that's something you can give it.
I mean, it's, it's like the,the DP is legendary, isn't it?
Like, uh, what's his name?
Sigmund.
Yeah.
I mean that guy is incredible.
And his movie to me looked awesome.
That is one thing I gotta hand to it.

Murph (16:50):
You do get a great shot of his shoes.
I'll tell you that much.
You do.

Greg (16:54):
I mean, you are joking, but that is, that is to me, several
times a great opening shot.
Yeah.
Um, so are, are you guyslike big Jack Nicholson guys?
I, I re I do really like him.
Um, I, I don't think, like he, tome is not somebody where I'm like
seeking out every performance of his.
Mm-hmm.

(17:14):
But I think like all the big onesI've seen of his, I do really like.
I mean, as, as dorky as this is, I thinkmy favorite performance from him is
the Joker, uh, in Tim Burton's Batman.
Like, just
watched it last night.
Yeah.
I, I think that is such afun, incredible performance.
Um, and I didn't see that movingTI was like older too, so it's
not even a nostalgic thing for me.

(17:36):
I just think that is the mostentertained I, um, by Jack Nicholson,
although I genuinely, it's crazy.
Genuinely enjoy him.

Murph (17:41):
It's, it's crazy that he did that right before this.
Like this was the followbefore follow up before this.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Greg (17:47):
And he, he, he walked away from that with Tracy Walter or
straight into the two Jakes.
Yep.

Murph (17:51):
Yeah.
I, I do love him.
Like he is one of the greats.
I think I, if I, the Shining iss great.
I really do love Witches of Eastwick.
Yeah.
Um, as, as good as it gets is phenomenal.
I really do love that movie as well.
Uh, it's always, he's just been kindof one of those presence in cinema
for such a long time that he is like,again, just at the Oscars front row,

(18:14):
uh, kind of been taken over I think bythe Tom Hanks or the, the Denzel now
kind of gets that, the face as like

Greg (18:20):
the face of like an older generation.
Yeah, the

Murph (18:22):
old school Hollywood, right?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna say some thingsduring this podcast that may shock
and upset one or both of you.
And one of those things is thatI've never really been a fan of him.
I've, I've gotten shit for thisopinion before, so I know it's not
a popular one, but I always kindof felt like he's just playing a

(18:45):
version of himself in every movie.
And I think, no, that's
Christian Slater.
Oh,
playing a version of,version of Jack Olson.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I think the reason that I thinkthat is probably just like my age
and the specific point he was at inhis career when I was growing up.
He was like in that run of as good asit gets about Schmitz, something's gotta

(19:08):
give or just seemed like he was alwaysplaying like an older pervy asshole.
So that's, yeah, like that's kind ofthe context I've always had for him.
It's like if someone had only seenAl Pacino and like his post scent
of a woman like yelling constantly,but they'd never seen like Godfather
or cruising or Dog Day afternoon.

(19:30):
So I mean, that's the

Greg (19:30):
thing is like, he's always played like a type of asshole.
I don't know if I've ever seen amovie role of his where he's not
a, like a dickhead of some kind.
Like even when he is playing,like, what, what is, uh.
Is the one he did like theromantic comedy, like in
the early or late eighties.
Um, terms of endearment, it's complicated

Murph (19:48):
or no, in terms of endearment where he

Greg (19:50):
is like, he's like a romantic interest in that, but he's
still like a dick, do you know?
Mm-hmm.
Like, and ultimately they end uptogether and I think it works out, but
it's like there's struggle is thoughthat he is a bristly guy always.
Like he is always an asshole and Yeah.
I can see how like he, he's always likethat and you get the sense of like,
is that just how Jack Nicholson is?
Like is he just Yeah.
Like an asshole.

(20:10):
And is that why he is playingone an literally every movie he
ever does, kind of get a similar
vibe from Michael Douglas Sometimes.
I'm like, that guy seemslike he's a fucking dick.
In real,

Murph (20:19):
he plays a great sleazeball.
I mean, that's what's really important.
Yeah.
I do wanna point out, I am lookingat his, uh, filmography right now.
We have covered him onthe podcast, obviously.
Oh yeah.
With the, um, Wolf, theNichols Wolf movie, of course.
Yeah.
Which is was the cutthroatbusiness of publishing.

Greg (20:36):
Yeah.
Which is not a good movie.
It's a, it's it's a pretty bad one.
Um, yeah.
He's not somebody I'm like, I,I, I don't like, I do like him.
I do find Nicholson verycompelling as like a performer.
Mm-hmm.
But I also like totally understandbecause like, like I said, he's
just always playing an asshole.
And he is just always, he as doesalways Jack Nicholson signifiers

(20:56):
that, you know, that like, I getit, it, it can't get very tiring.
I would never like MarathonJack Nicholson movies, you know?
Well, I did that exactthing this week, sort of.
I, I mean, when I watched Batmanlast night, that's probably the
first time I've ever seen it.
I might've seen it when I was likebelow the age of five and I watched
it specifically of like, that seemslike of all of his roles, that one's

(21:19):
gonna be different from what I've seen.
No,
no.
But it's incredibly Nicholson.
Like, it's so much him.
It is.
But I,
I do feel like he is stretchinga lot more than in The Departed,
which I've re-watched also.
'cause that's kind of like, hedoes a great job, but he is like,
yeah, he's a similar character.
There's

Murph (21:36):
a definitely a point where he starts becoming a parody of himself.
Right.
And can play into it.
And that just like amplifiesthat persona, like throughout
the cinematic halls of history.

Greg (21:48):
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
I mean, I, I do like, it's, it's so easyto say, but I do love him in The Shining.
And I think that that to me, showslike, it, it's one of the only times
where I see in his performance,like, I don't know a degree of, um.
Like horror at his likeass, at his like mm-hmm.
Ishness.
Mm-hmm.
Like he has these moments where when,like, when Wendy thinks that he has beaten

(22:11):
Danny and she's telling him to stay away,like the kind of like look on his face to
me is so, like, it's, it's weird to sayheartbreaking, but it is like, you know,
it's, it's, yeah, he didn't think he didthis, but he's also not entirely sure and
he has this past of having heard him andlike, I dunno, I see like a real kind of
turmoil going on there as opposed to justlike, I don't know, you know, the, the
cheekiness of like older jack where he'san asshole and doesn't care, you know?

(22:34):
Yeah.
Um, the next couple of shockingadmissions, uh, Greg already stole one
from me because it was that I had neverseen Chinatown before, but also I had
never seen a Roman Polanski film before.
Mm. That was the first one.
I mean, I'm all for separating art fromartists, but I find it very difficult

(22:55):
to do with like him and Woody Allenspecifically because I learned about
them as perverts first and like they'resex criminals that also made movies
is how I learned of them as a kid.
So it's like.
I never had a chance to likethem before knowing about them.
Yeah.
I, I'm in the exact same boat.
This is only the third Polanskimovie I've seen before this I've

(23:17):
seen Rosemary's Baby and Frantic.
Um, and I, I will say I do like all threeof them, and it's one of these situations
where I can recognize that Chinatown isgreat, but, uh, it's, it's just very,
like you said, I learned about him asa sex criminal first, and each movie
I've seen from him now involves like sexcrimes in a lot of ways of like, yeah.

(23:39):
And it's, it's insane to watchthese movies and see like John Cave
and Rosemary's Baby, essentiallyin a, in a weird sense, be playing
a Roman polansky type, right?
Mm-hmm.
And he's like, obviously the bad guy.
Like there's, you know, he'sobviously the villain or in Chinatown,
the John Houston character Yep.
Of like, how could you make this movieand then do what you did, like, you

(23:59):
know, be doing what you're doing?
Uh, it, it's truly baffling to me.
I still have not watched a WoodyAllen movie much to Ssha Grid.
Not to call him out, but

Murph (24:08):
I, I, so that is the thing, like I do love a lot of Woody Allen movies and
I saw the pianist in theaters and it wasone of my favorite like, movie experiences
my dad raised about the pianist, right?
Yeah.
Like I had known about theHolocaust, but to like.
That was, I think, the firstexperience of like trying to truly

(24:29):
understand what someone would've gonethrough in those type of scenarios.
And it, it was extremely eye-opening.
It is a very, like you say, an artversus artists, but it is, it's
hard when such horrible people canproduce such great art, which is
why our podcast is so terrible.
We're such good people, but likeit just can't actually produce

(24:51):
anything of, you know, value.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, also we should say
allegedly, by the way, I just wanna make sure that we
allegedly we put that in there.
Allegedly.
I mean, the Woody Allen thingalso is like, it's very easy
for me to take a stance.
'cause like I, even without that,I would imagine, I still would not
have watched a Woody Allen movie.

(25:12):
It's just like, I like tweedcomedies about New York City.
Like, I just can't reallyrelate to it at all.

Greg (25:21):
The two movies I have seen with where he is in them are the, uh,
original Casino Royale where he playsa, uh, one of the James Bonds and
then, uh, the Animated Classic Ants.
Uh, those are the twoRoyale movies I have seen.
Oh, of course, yes.

Murph (25:35):
I, I'll just pitch Purple Rose of Cairo.
He's not actually in it.
It's uh, Mia Pharaoh in Depression erahas a horrible husband goes to the movies.
Jeff Daniels is an actor.
He comes out of the screenas the movie character.
It's really magical.
It's really fun.
It's a very sweet movie.
You don't have to look at Woody,that you don't have to look at him.

(25:57):
Okay.
That's easier.
I'll take your word for it's maybeonce he dies and could No, like, not
possibly profit off of me in any way,maybe then I'll watch his movies.
Um, so a little background onthe two Jakes, uh, like we were
talking about, it's not actually avanity project by Jack Nicholson.
Even though it was directedby him, he stars in it.

(26:19):
He co-produced it and he co-wrote it.
I don't think he actually gota writing credit, but he did
do a lot of rewrites on it.
And like we said, it's not becausehe wanted to do those things,
it's just how things ended up.
Because this movie had a very longand very troubled production history.
It was conceived as a joint venturebetween producer Bob Evans, screenwriter,

(26:39):
Robert Towne, and Nicholson.
And originally Bob Evans wassupposed to star opposite Nicholson
as the second Jake, so it wasalmost more of a Bob Evans vanity
project than it was a Nicholson one.

Greg (26:51):
Mm, yeah.
I I looked into some of thisbackstory too, like mm-hmm.
The, the, so did you, I mean, I'msure you found the reasons that
Evans ended up not performing.
Yes.
Which I, I wanna see you're talkingabout like limited, like series earlier
Murph, they did an entire limitedseries about like the making of the
Godfather like a couple years ago, right?
Yes.
The

Murph (27:08):
offer.
Right.
Which

Greg (27:09):
like, okay.
I'm sure that was interesting.
Whatever.
I'm sure that's all good.
It also includes BobEvans, I just realized.
Yep.
But,
uh, Matthew Good as Bob Evans.
Yes.
But I, I need to see, based on likesome of these stories, I need to
see like a making of the two Jakeswith Bob Evans because like, this,
this stuff really is fascinating.
Yeah.
I mean, I really didn't knowanything about him before this,

(27:31):
but he was quite a character.
I guess he's.

Murph (27:36):
Yeah, I, well, I, me and Greg have talked about this before I discovered him
when the, uh, Patton Oswald bit, yeah.
At the end of one of his, his albums.
And I remember reading the kid staysin the picture, his, uh, autobiography,
senior year of high school, and justbeing like, wow, goddammit, why was I
not alive in the seventies in Hollywood?

(27:56):
Would've been thegreatest time to, to live.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess he's like a producerwhose fame transcended that.
And he was kind of like, just like a,a personality in the media as well.
I didn't get Yeah, likea great read on it.
But he was at one point implicatedin a murder, and then in 1980 he was

(28:17):
convicted of cocaine trafficking.
You're in Hollywood long enough that's gonna happen.
Okay.
True, true.
And as a result of his cocainetrafficking conviction, he had to film
an anti-drug TV commercial that featuredBob Hope, Paul Newman and Muhammad Ali.

Greg (28:36):
The of, of you guys
looked that one up?
No, that one I have not seen.
Okay.
I need to see it.
That's quite funny.
Sounds great.
Um, but the first attempt at filmingthe two Jakes stalled out in 1985
because Robert Town didn't thinkthat Evans acting was up to snuff.
And also Evans refused to get an eraappropriate haircut because of the scars
he had from a recent cosmetic procedure.

(28:59):
They would be visible if he cut his hair,
so.
Okay.
And the detail I saw, yeah.
Is that when he was going in toget this like facial procedure?
Yes.
He was bringing in photos of, of his cat?
Yeah.
As for reference, yes.
I, I, I think this, I, again, I, Iliked a lot of aspects of this film.
I do think it would be 10 times,you know, uh, more memorable

(29:19):
and talked about a lot more.
Probably if you had a, a cat faced RobertEvans as the other, Jake, like if he was,
if he was running around looking like, youknow, I don't know Idris Elba from, from
Kaz, you know, if that was the other Jake.
Wow.

Murph (29:31):
Yeah,
he's constantly
licking his hand and
like, you know, trying to groom
himself.
Oh yeah.
Yeah, so the collapse of the firstattempt, uh, at shooting this
movie led to some lawsuits and forthe next few years, Evanstown and
Nicholson tried to get it going again,and there were a couple proposed
personnel shakeups in those years.
At one point, Roy Scheer was goingto play the second Jake and Harrison

(29:54):
Ford was going to take over theJJ GTI part for Jack Nicholson.
I don't know why they didn't continuewith that line of thought of getting
someone younger to play that character.
Who knows?
Several director names were supposedlykicked around during this time, including
John Houston and Roman Polanski.
But, uh, Nicholson eventuallydecided to do it himself, not

(30:17):
because he really wanted to, hejust wanted to get the movie made.
And I had read that the three filmsthat he directed prior to this, he had
very negative experiences as a directorand didn't want to do that again.
Oh, wow.
I, I had to look it up.
Uh, Houston died in 87, so yeah, there,there would've been at least talks

(30:38):
to be like, well, you wanna do this?
Why not?
Let's, let's get the band back together.
Not Roman, though.

Greg (30:44):
Well, I mean, they, they would've, it sounds like they would have done it
with Polanski if he had been up for it.
Maybe like, I don't know,quite know why he didn't do it.
But I mean, he was makingmovies around this time.
He did a movie with Harrison Ford,like he did frantic Well, yes.
Around this, this exact time.
Yes.
Because they're

Murph (30:57):
not gonna shoot a movie about Southern California in, oh, Paris, France.
I mean, I,

Greg (31:04):
well,

Murph (31:04):
that's why Greg

Greg (31:06):
didn't think about that part.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was one of the things in thearticle I was reading, is like, they
just, they couldn't figure out thelogistics of it for obvious reasons.
So they,

Murph (31:15):
they hadn't developed Zoom yet, so he couldn't just like be
on an iPad, like on a, a stand.
He couldn't have told, couldn't told

Greg (31:21):
Anfo, John Carpenter and direct from his couch.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but filming eventuallycompleted in July of 1989, the
movie required reshoots and did notget released until August, 1990.
It was a box office failure, onlybringing in $10 million against an
estimated budget of 25 million, andgenerally received lukewarm reviews.

(31:44):
There was a third film planned that wouldbe titled GIS versus gis, but those plans
failed to materialize because this moviewas a financial and critical failure.

Murph (31:54):
Terrible name.
Like one of the things I have againstthis movie is it's a terrible title.

Greg (32:00):
I mean, we gotta start there, right?
He's like both the two Jakes and gethis versus get his suck as titles.
Yes.
They're terrible.
Like horrible.
Both of them are bad.
I think the two Jakes is funny as atitle, but it's not like a good title.

Murph (32:11):
But when you do like a titular line five minutes into the movie mm-hmm.
Again, that doesn't help.

Greg (32:16):
No.
Again, I think that's one of the positiveis how quickly he tosses it off as like
it's, isn't this a dumb thing to Jakes?
Who cares?
Right.
Like that to me was a little likeweirdly self-aware of like, we're kind
of getting past that to Jakes and we'renot really gonna discuss that anymore.
I mean I found it kinda kind ofunnecessary later on where they sort
of team up and Harvey Kittel waslike, so what are we, some kind of

(32:38):
two Jakes that was a little overboard.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so yeah, I mean the, the cast is, uh,Jack Nicholson as JJ Jake Gidi or Giddy
pronounced either way in both movies.
So I'm not sure.

Murph (32:53):
Well, it's giddy.
And the thing is when Houstonand the first one keeps purposely
mispronouncing his name GI Yes.
With
the third pronunciation of Gits.

Greg (33:02):
Yes.
And they tried to reclaim thatmagic by having Richard Farnsworth
call him Jack in all their scenes.
Right.
Like they, they kind of tryto mirror that a little bit
as.
Is that what they were doing?
I think, I think because Barns Worth and Nick and Houston are kind of in the
same position as like the tycoons, right?
Like that's true.
Yeah.

Murph (33:21):
Both giving the like, ah, shucks.
You know, kind of, I'mjust, I'm just a rich guy.
What do you expect from me?
Yeah.
Harvey Kittel as the second, Jake, JakeBerman, Meg Tilley as Kitty Berman.
Jake Berman's wife.
She was also in Psycho too.
So this was like her legacysequel Glow up at this point.

Greg (33:42):
That was her, like that was her, uh, her.
What do you call that?
Like, that was her entire gimmickfor a while was like six sequels.
I think she was also in, she's alsoin the, uh, the second remake of
Invasion of the Body Snatchers,just called Body Snatchers.
So the Abel Ferrara one.
Abel Ferra one.
Yes.
Uh, where she, she is fantastic in that.

(34:03):
Um, so yeah, she did love doinglike UPS or legacy sequels or things
like that was her entire lane.
Yeah.

Murph (34:09):
Wow.
I really only knew her from the Big Chill,so this was something like, oh, okay.
Cool.
I, yeah, I think I had onlyseen her in Psycho two and the,
it's like a couple episodes ofthe Chucky TV show before this.
Is she in that?
Oh, a little bit.

Greg (34:24):
Okay.
'cause I mean, I don't know if this islike a, a take on the level level of
any of yours so far, but I might thinkshe's a better actor than Jennifer.
Tilly just waited on everythingI've seen from the two of them.
I do love Jennifer Tilly, but like,I don't know, between Psycho two
and Body Snatchers and I, I, again,honestly, some scenes of this.

(34:45):
I think Meg Tilly islike a great performer.

Murph (34:47):
It says in Chucky, Meg Tilley plays Meg Tilley.
So she is Yes.
Herself.
Oh my God, yes.
Okay.

Greg (34:53):
I gotta watch TV show, I guess.
All right.
Yeah,
you should.
Now that it's canceled,
it's a dead format, so I think it's open to you too.
Yeah, right.
Box check.
All right.
You can bring us back.
Uh, yeah, I mean, I might kind of, Ithink I would lead towards agreeing with
you, Greg, but I just, I don't thinkI've seen enough of either of them to

(35:14):
really be able to say like, yeah, becauseI think I've only seen Bound and then
the Chucky stuff of Jennifer Tilley.
So

Murph (35:22):
Meg's more muted.
But like Tilley, you know, she's more fun.
She's spicy.

Greg (35:27):
Uh, again, you gotta see, you gotta see Body Snatchers
that's, she's fantastic in it.
And, uh, yeah, that Murphy, I've beentrying, I've been thinking about a way
a, a theme them bringing that movie on.
So Get ready.
It's coming soon.
Okay.
Uh, Madeline Sto is Lillian Bodine.
You may remember her from suchfilms as Bad Girls, the Female

(35:47):
version of Young Guns that.
Probably no one but mehas seen, I know I've
been meaning to see it because I think that movie was
in theaters the week I was born.
And I did something where like, Idon't know, people were on online,
on Twitter probably were like, oh,post, like one of the movies that was
in theaters the week you were born.
And that was the onethat came back for me.
Like I had just opened that week I think.

(36:08):
So I've been meaning to watch it.
'cause I have some kind ofconnection to that film.
It's not very good.
Well, shit,
e the legendary Eli Wallachis Cotton Weinburger.
Oh, magnificent.
Seven alum.

Murph (36:20):
Like what, two, three scenes.
Really?
Yeah.
Like not many at all, but like,fuck it Amazing in each one.

Greg (36:25):
I almost didn't recognize him.
Not in Brown face because my, myfavorite, I mean, look, I, I am,
I'm being facetious, but my favoriteperformance of all time is him as
Toko in the good, the bad of the ugly.
So, um, he, he's earned alifelong pass from, from me.
Yeah.
I mean, uh, year of the Western.
You're gonna run into him a lot.
That's it.
Oh yeah.
I can't wait.
Yeah.
Ruben Blades as Mickey.

(36:47):
Nice.
Um, Frederick Forest as ChuckNewie, who he is the main
character and li it lives again.
AKA It's live too movie.
Ooh.
Okay.
Near and dear to my
heart.
I, I own the box set of those.
I've only seen the first one.
I gotta watch the other two.
You got to, I was, they're so good.
Say two Reuben Blades, aReturn Champion for us, Murph.
Do you remember which, whichmovie we've talked about?

(37:08):
Oh

Murph (37:08):
no, he did look

Greg (37:08):
familiar, but, um, no, he is the, the, the first cop killed in Predator two.
Mm-hmm.
He plays Danny in that film.
Oh, okay.
That is a movie that is, that is playingat a theater near me tomorrow night
and I'm gonna go watch it tomorrow.
I'm very excited.
Yes.
I can't wait.
Amazing.

Murph (37:26):
Are they gonna crank the heat to I hope the heat wave.
Yeah.
You gotta, you gotta

Greg (37:30):
emulate.
Yeah.
You gotta make it an immersive experience.
David, Keith as Detective Loach who,when I watched Batman last night, I was
like, oh, David Keith's in this too.
No, no.
Him and Robert willjust look exactly alike.

Murph (37:45):
Yes, yes.
It's like the anti-war basically.
Yeah.
Uh, Richard Farnsworth as Earl Rowley, um,
returning champion for us.
Yeah, that's right.
Assume
misery.
That's right.
The same

Greg (37:57):
year as this, is that right?
Um, 1990.
I think so.
At least within a, afew years of each other.
Yeah.
Very close in time.
And you're the Western like the day before I watched, or a couple
days before I watched this, I alsowatched, um, uh, Howard Hawks' Red
River where Richard Farnsworth is inthat like, and so I watched two of his
films like separated by like 40 years.

(38:19):
Uh, just by coincidence.
It was crazy.

Murph (38:22):
But you couldn't tell which one he was older in.
Right?
Yeah.
He looks

Greg (38:25):
exactly

Murph (38:25):
the same in

Greg (38:26):
both.
Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah.
The aforementioned Tracy Walteras Tyrone Ottley, uh, Perry Lopez
as Captain Lou Escobar, who I knowfrom Death Wish Four and Forbidden
Subjects to Charles Brunson movies.
Death
Wish Four.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The Crackdown is the subtitle of that one.
Mm-hmm.
'cause it's about crack.

(38:47):
And the legendary James HongReprising, his role as Kahan.
This kind of, it's, it's weird how this is like such an early example
of legacy sequels and it has so much ofthe, like, the failings of your common
legacy sequel because like, why doesJames Hong need to be in this movie?
Like, his scene trulyadds so little to this.

Murph (39:09):
Well it's, it's the one connection that Nicholson has
to Catherine from the original.
Right.
So that, that's how to like bridge it.
I also did wanna say like,there are two other people
that are kind of in the movie.
We have the voice of FayeDunaway returning as Evelyn.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Um, and then an uncredited TomWaites as playing close cop.
Yeah.

Greg (39:29):
I totally missed that at altogether.
That's insane.
Oh, it's one of the best scenes.

Murph (39:34):
Oh, because he like, yeah, I mean he has like a few,
like closeups and everything.
Mm-hmm.
It's right when, um, before heputs the gun in Loach's mouth.
Okay.
And like they're talking aboutlike, you know, we're gonna
book you for extortion bribery.
Yes.

Greg (39:46):
I can picture him now.
Oh my God.
That is crazy.

Murph (39:49):
And like a mustard colored suit.

Greg (39:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think if we're askingquestions about Han, I think for
me the biggest question is like.
Do we need the son of oneof the detectives from the
previous movie like that?
That is
the other, that is the one of those most un unnecessary like dumb things.
It is wild.
Yeah,

Murph (40:08):
it is wild.
But it it, it's supposed to like, causethat PTSD in that moment of like, he is
the one that actually killed his ex lover.
Mm-hmm.

Greg (40:18):
Right.
But, but, but it, it means so muchless when it's the son of that guy.
You know what I mean?
Well because like the guy

Murph (40:24):
probably guy, yeah.
I mean it is, it really makes16 years later thing have

Greg (40:27):
no impact basically.

Murph (40:29):
I, I, okay.
So I wanted to get into thisreally quickly because it is
16 years later after Chinatown.
Do you think you could name any ofthe top movies from 16 years ago?
Today From 2009?

Greg (40:44):
Oh

Murph (40:44):
2009 Avatar.
I got the top 10 box office and thenI got just like a bunch of other
ones that like, could we make alegacy sequel out of this From here,
I'm struggling to think of asingle movie that came out in 2009.
It's just such a, so oddly specific year.
But
there are a, a lot of big avatar and then Kurt

Greg (41:04):
Walker, because those were in theaters around the same time.

Murph (41:06):
Correct.
Avatar.
Is there Hurt Walker as well?
Yeah.

Greg (41:10):
Was it the, the, the Captain America, right.
The, uh, I'm

Murph (41:14):
not getting that.
Was that one out the year?
I didn't see any actualMarvel ones that I wrote down.
Um, you also, number Avatar,number one at the box.
Office number two is a, the thirdmovie of a series based on a
children's television show slash toys.

Greg (41:31):
What?
Transformers.
So the third Transformers.

Murph (41:33):
Transformers, revenge of the Fallen.
You got a third based on thechildren's book about wizardry.
Uh, Half-Blood Prince, not thethird you're ever gonna get.
Which one it was.
I was

Greg (41:42):
gonna, that's the sixth actually, but not the third, you know.
Well third for

Murph (41:46):
Transformers.
Uh oh, I see, I see you got,Twilight is number four.
You got up Pixar's up five, right?
Hangover number six, star Trek.
A seven.
Oh yeah.

Greg (41:56):
Star Trek.
Oh nine.
Yeah, I know the remake.
It's the Blind

Murph (41:59):
Side, one of the movies that's held up the boat the most over the years.

Greg (42:04):
The remake of Nightmare Elm Street was that year.
Is that right?
Uh, I didn't see that one.
That was 2010.
Okay.
Maybe 2010 then.
Yeah,

Murph (42:12):
number nine at the box office.
Alvin and the Chipmunks, the squeal.
And then number 10, Sherlock Holmes.
Yeah.
I had to cheat and look atLetterboxed, uh, gamer starring
Gerard Butler, law Abiding Citizen.
Those are, I think, okay.
Those are my, for Legacy

Greg (42:30):
sequels.
Gimme Gamer two, gimme the,you know, the two Gerard's.
I don't know what his name is in gamer,but that's the one I want to see.
His name is always, well,I, I have others that I was

Murph (42:40):
gonna bring up throughout, but like, we have Paul Bart
MoCo, which they already did asequel to, but we could Oh, wow.
You know, got a se we could redo that.
The big one that I think that would happenor could happen, should happen is District
nine, like that is something that's primefor getting another entry into that story.

(43:01):
Yeah.

Greg (43:01):
It has a sequel bait ending.
It does.
But yeah, I, I, it was, it wasshocking though that like legacy
sequels have almost alwayshad the same kind of problems.
So, because I feel like this movie startsout kind of doing its own thing, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I was seeing how like, okay, Ican see how this is an interesting
follow up to something like Chinatown.

(43:21):
And then it becomes so reverentialand, and referential to
Chinatown that it got exhausting.
Like to the point of incorporatingolder footage, you know, like, and
doing all these flashbacks to it, andlike, just becoming about kind of the
same thing of like protecting this,this, the same person essentially.
Like, it, it just became exhaustingof like, well, if I wanted to

(43:43):
watch Chinatown, I would've justwatched Chinatown, you know?
Yeah, the post credit scene with, uh,Polanski Reprising, his role as Kitty
Cat Man, or whatever the fuck he was.
Yeah.

Murph (43:56):
I'm starting The Giddy Initiative.

Greg (43:59):
All the, all the gang writing, all the Jakes, yeah.
The Jake Initiative.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so yeah, I mean, let'sget into the plot of it.
And so the film begins with ashort voiceover from Jake Gidi,
who as we said already fucking

Murph (44:13):
terrible, like beside, besides the fact that like, we didn't have that
in the original, and it was somethingthat was not in the original script.
They shot the movie, they did reshoots,and they were like, fuck, it doesn't work.
We need to add something.
And just the fact that.
Nicholson sounds kind ofbored when he is doing it.

(44:33):
He doesn't sound like what I would imaginethe inner dialogue of Giddy would be.
Mm-hmm.
Like he would be a little bit more upbeat,a little bit more sardonic or comical as
he usually is with like everybody else.
Wouldn't he be like thaton the, on the inside?
Yeah.
Um, also just the creditsthat they're doing with it.

(44:54):
It's so sad after re I watchedChinatown twice for this.
Mm-hmm.
And the two Jakes twice and it'sjust so sad of how perfect I think
Chinatown is and that they do thetitles in like an old thirties style.
Right.
They do like the old

Greg (45:09):
Columbia kind of like, right.
'cause I think it's Columbia.
Um,

Murph (45:12):
and they, they just can't even try to emulate something like that of
just like, yeah, that's what this is.
Like, just make, makeit like an old movie.
I think it's a toughthat time because doing,

Greg (45:22):
doing that again would've been kind of hack, right?
Like, I feel like, like redoing thatand I think what they, what they need
to do, 'cause this is like the fortiespostwar, they had to do a title sequence,
like, like that era, you know, whichwould've been a little different.
Right, right.
The world.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
Do like a news reel like that.
Exactly.
Uh, but I, I mean I, Chris you said you'renot that much of an noir guy, but Nah.

(45:43):
Is there like, Murph, I don't know.
I don't know how much we'vediscussed noir, really.
I am a, I'm a big noir guy.
Um, like I've read a lot of the, okay.
Yeah.
50 really.
I've read a lot of noir books.
Like I love a good harbo detective novel.
I'm, I've almost read every likePhilip Marlowe book, but, um.
Not a lot of them evenhave that voiceover.
They became such a cliche.
Yeah.
Like in terms of like parrotingnoir, but when you watch the older

(46:06):
ones, it was actually kind of raretech to ha actually have that.
Yeah.
Like, like, um, what's the, uh, doubleindemnity has it, that's maybe what made
it so popular, but that is a framingdevice and it's like, it's kinda like
zombies saying brains.
Yes.
Right.
It's a Exactly.
These counting the

Murph (46:21):
story into a recorder, and so that's why we're getting all of this.
Right.
Right.
So there's like a

Greg (46:26):
actual like plot justification for the narration.
Yeah.
And it also like adds a layer to itbecause he is like telling the truth.
And when you're watching the movie, he'slike a lying piece of shit the entire,
so there's like, it adds something to it.
This one.
Yeah.
I feel like narration becamea, a way to parody the genre.
Right.
And so seeing a movie earnestly do itlike this just kind of feels mm-hmm.
Like tired and played out.

(46:47):
Mm-hmm.
Or like b it is like,well, earnestly patchwork,

Murph (46:50):
don't, I don't, it's, it's almost like out of necessity.
Again, I'm, it's, it's,

Greg (46:54):
it's patchwork.
Yeah.
It's just like, it's obviouslythey needed to bridge scenes
with something they needed voice.
Explain.
It's not working without explain.
Yeah.
And this is where like I, something Ireally did appreciate about Chinatown is
like, that plot is just as convoluted.
Mm-hmm.
But somehow I was never actually lost.
I feel like every scene did afantastic job of like introducing

(47:15):
the new information and keepingyou like, current with Jake.
I don't know that, I was never likefeeling like, I was like, you know,
what the fuck is happening in Chinatown?
Yeah.
Like,
I think my, possibly my issue withthe genre as a whole, and correct me
if I'm wrong, but it's just sort ofthe impression I have is that a lot
of it is like, you know, falling intothis mysterious hole and eventually

(47:38):
like losing sight of things.
Yep.
For me, that's not really, uh, likea rewarding experience because at
a certain point when I was watchingChinatown, I'm just like, okay, why the,
why do I give a fuck about any of this?
Like where the goalposts Yes.
Like, I don't, right.
I.

Murph (47:54):
But I think that's what makes Chinatown so special is
that it starts with this likesuper personal case of someone
cheating on their wife, supposedly.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, being hired by someone fake,it devolves into this like insane
conspiratorial, like it's about the cityof LA and water, but then it ends in a,

(48:15):
like the similar personal space of like,the water doesn't matter by the end of it.
Right.
What you're invested in is EvelynCatherine, and if Noah Cross is gonna get
her hands, his hands on her, and just whenit all kind of culminates, like in front
of cons, uh, apartment in Chinatown, likeI'm on the edge of my seat the whole time.

(48:35):
Like, I watching it the second time today,I know everything that's gonna happen,
but I still have goosebumps the whole timebecause it's like we're, we're building
up to this thing that's is, it's just soinvested in wanting to protect this girl.
Yeah.
And I feel so much for Evelyn and,and, uh, Faye Dunaway just a huge
crush of mine, but she's giving sucha performance as well of protecting

(49:00):
her daughter from her own abuser.
And the way that, like,it ends with the gunshot.
Mm-hmm.
The way that both Catherine and, uh,John Houston's performances of seeing
this person that's like so connected tothem, dead to Nicholson's performance,
like it ends in such a wonderful place.
To me that's absolutely depressing andapparently was not part of the original

(49:21):
script of Robert Town like it wassupposed to be happy and they get away.
But Polanski as great of an artist ashe was like, knew, no, no, no, we need
to leave in this, like, this spark wherewe're really not sure how we should feel.
Like it's, it's really bizarreand it, and special to me.

Greg (49:40):
I, uh, I think though Chris, like you're, uh, first
of all very well said, Murph.
You're, you're totally correct.
Yeah.
Um, but, uh, I think your issue withthe noirs, I, I think it's, it's
totally like, to me, it, it is likea feature, not a bug of them, right.
Of like the absolute insanity oflike, you're falling into this web of
deceit and lies and none of it mattersexcept for at the very heart of it.

(50:01):
Like Murph said, there's somekind of personal tragedy going on.
Usually like some kind of, like, at thevery core of all of that bullshit is
just this kinda like very sad story.
Mm-hmm.
You know, going on.
Usually for somebody,

Murph (50:12):
somebody gets invested Yes.
More than they think they would.
Or there's there's a person, yeah.
There's a person

Greg (50:17):
in trouble and, you know, somebody was wrong, somebody was hurt, and like all
this other nonsense on top of it doesn'tmatter, like the water rights and the, the
oil and this like, it, it's all just coverfor like a personal tragedy going on.
But like that, that it's somethingI to kind of love how little
sometimes these, like this genrecan care about the grander plot.

(50:38):
Like, um, I forget which, uh, PhilipMarlowe book it is, but one of the books
by Raymond Shandler that had, did becomea movie, he like, has said like the way
he would write these things is that hewould like start writing one plot, kind
of get tired of it and start writing adifferent plot and then combine like three
or four of those plots into a single bookand do like, you know, the bare minimum

(50:58):
work to connect them into a single story.
That does not
surprise
me at all.
But what, but what does work aboutthose stories is the, the captivating
nature of like your kind of, you know,your detective and usually your fem
infantile, like that is usually right.
Like what these are all kind ofbuilt on is like those are the
foundation and um, we have made it.
30 seconds into the two Jakes,uh, so far for the plot.

(51:20):
And so we should probablycontinue with that.
But just to say like, that's
fine.
I mean, this is probably more interestingthan the plot of the two Jakes,
but it's just saying like, we don't get to that central kind of
like core relationship of like, youknow, your, your sort of like fem
fatal and your detective until like,uh, over an hour into the two Jakes.
It's so long before hefinally meets Meg Tilley.
I mean, yeah, just to, just to beclear, I'm like, not saying that that's

(51:42):
something wrong with noir movies.
I'm just saying for mepersonally, it's not satisfying.
Something I kind of talk about withlike Gilo films a lot is that they
are also mysteries, but usuallythe solution is either someone who
has not been in the movie at all.
Yeah.
Or they flat out tell youwithin the first five minutes.
So it's like, this is not satisfying to meto even, it's just like, what's the point?

Murph (52:07):
Right.
It, it's more of a, a, a wandering,meandering kind of mystery.
The climb, not the
journey or climb, not the destination.
But with this one specifically, I think what, you know, Chinatown does
so well is, is that reveal of, you know,Evelyn is Catherine's sister daughter.
Mm-hmm.
And we never, like, the only thing thatthey're going for in this one is that

(52:29):
Kitty is Catherine, which it almostsets up from the beginning Right?
That you feel like, oh, of course.
Yeah.
And then almost every time you,like Jack Nicholson gets to see her.
It's either like, very quickly,she has sunglasses on, she's
got the beauty mask on.
She's done up in likegardening with a hat.
So like, it's like, oh, well obviouslyhe's not gonna recognize this

(52:51):
person from, that's the other thing.
It's, it's supposed to be 10 years.
Yeah.
In the story.
When Jack Nicholson's age 16,he's aged more like 20 years.
Really?
He really has, um.
Yeah, that was a tangent, but whatbrought us there is the voiceover, and I
wanted to say, I read somewhere that inthe DVD version of this, Jack Nicholson

(53:14):
actually cut out some of the voiceover.
Oh, interesting.
So interesting.
What I did was I got theVHS version of this Whoa.
Compared it to the Blu-rayversion that I had.
Whatever he cut out is onlycut out in the DVD version.
It's whoa.
In VHS and Blu-ray, which I was kindof surprised by, because usually those

(53:35):
sorts of like changes, like no onethinks to fix it just sort of carries
through like successive releases.
It's usually
What's the last edition right.
That was put out?
Let's just copy and paste that.
Okay.
I was gonna ask how did you watch it?
Obviously on VHS, but Greg,how, how did you view this?
Okay, so this is interesting.

Greg (53:54):
I may have watched the DVD cut because, uh, I, I'm not, I can't remember
now be, but I, I usually nowadays, uh,there's a video story called Vidiots
that, um, there's a great establishmentand they have a huge library.
So I, I, I rent from them all the time.
It's how I watch 'emalmost everything nowadays.
And I'm trying to remember ifthey had the Blu-ray version
or not, or if I rented a DVD.

(54:14):
So it's possible I watched a DVD onewith less, uh, voiceover and maybe
that is why I like, I seeminglylike this more than Q2 guys.
Um,

Murph (54:24):
uh, I, I viewed it on Paramount Plus and I think they actually added
more vote voiceover than originally had.
Yeah.
They just

Greg (54:31):
have nickleson drowning out the dialogue at all times.
Yeah.
With voiceover.
Yeah.

Murph (54:36):
It's him doing that like weird sound that he does in, um,
easy Rider when he drinks whiskey.
So it starts off with a voiceover where,uh, Nicholson says, I suppose it's fair
to say infidelity made me what I am today.
I don't care whose fault it is,his, hers, or the milkman's.
If one of them comes to me, itmeans they're both miserable.

(54:57):
And that's my job puttingpeople out of their misery.
So we cut to his office, wesee his client, Jake Berman,
played by Harvey Kittel.
He's hired Jake Guinness.
No, we don't
really see him because I'd love to get back to this.
I don't like this shot.
Actually.
I loved it.
I love this shot.
The shoes, I,

Greg (55:13):
I think this is, this is, I think this is great.
The shoes are

Murph (55:15):
fine.
I don't, I don't mind the style.
It's just the, like,like focusing on that.
Not, not like Harvey Kittel as a handsomeman is in the background out of focus,
and we're just not seeing any of that.
I, I don't think Jack Nicholsondoes a great job at directing.

Greg (55:33):
I, I, I would say, yeah, I would say my, I, I appreciate the
way it's shot, but I don't thinkthe directing is that impressive.
Yeah.
I think I'd agree with that
work, Ben.
I would say yes.
Yeah.
Like nothing really was like egregiousto me, but I wasn't wowed either.
Right.

Murph (55:47):
Well, just to like skip far ahead is when he is like interrogating
Kitty and the beauty parlor, it'sjust a constant like, and I love,
I actually love the dialogue andtheir performances in that scene.
Mm-hmm.
But it's just a straight like, shot,reverse, shot, shot, reverse shot.
When they are in like a littleroom, there's a giant mirror.
They could have used that in some wayto get both of them and like referencing

(56:10):
and doing one shot, but it's just.
It's very bland a lot of the time.
Yeah.
And I think even like these little choicesthat he makes, like with the shoes, I
don't think they're actually really good.

Greg (56:22):
I, I, I think the shoe choice is one of the best directing choices in this.
To me.
I think it is.
I think 'cause it's, I don't know.
It's like having the, the shoes obscuringHarvey Kittel and it is like a cool
moment when the shoes come far enough.
I just hit my mic, sorry.
But when the shoes come farenough apart to see him for the
first time, I think that's a coollittle moment of like building up
to the reveal of Harvey Kittel.

(56:42):
I mean, you can hear hisvoice, so you know, it's him.
Like there's no mistaking who it is.
Yeah.
But you know, that'sstill, that's still neat.
I had to look up like, 'causeI knew the name Vilmos segment.
I knew he's a legendary cinematographer,but he shot things like the
deer hunter Close Encountersof the Third Kind Long Goodbye.
And I feel like looking at the visualsof this movie, like I, I still see some
of that, the, the greatness, you know.

(57:03):
You know, the long goodbye is somethingwe have both watched not that long ago.
Right.
Murph, like, I, I really loved it.
Yeah.
LA based noir film.
Very kind of similar tone,I think to a, a better movie
than Chinatown, in my opinion.
For like a a seventies neo noir

Murph (57:16):
could use a couple hippies living next door.
I'm just gonna say it.

Greg (57:20):
Any movie can use topless hippies next door.
That's always, thatshould be in every film.
Every protagonist needs that.
But yeah.
Anyway, I, I thought thiswas a decent enough star.
I also don't mind, like, thevoiceover as a whole is bad.
I agree with that, but I think the lineof like, that's my job to put people
outta their misery is a really good line.
I think that there are nuggets of, yeah.

(57:40):
Of good writing left in ear.
Overall.
I mean, I don't mind a movie withnarration and I do think some of
it's pretty solidly written, if not,you know, if it weren't performed
so electronically performed.
Yeah.
Um, Berman hired Gidi to, uh, dis findout if his wife is cheating on him.
And Gita's team has discovered thathis wife is cheating on him, and

(58:03):
they plan to have Berman catch herin the act later that day at a hotel.
And so Berman is reciting what Gidihas instructed him to say when he quote
unquote discovers that his wife ischeating on him so that they can record it
from the next room and I guess present itas evidence in a potential divorce trial.
Right?
Yeah.

(58:24):
So that meeting is interrupted by asmall earthquake or Timor, as GIZ calls
it, and we have someone from California.
Do, is that a term you are familiar with?
I had, I had never heard of that.
No.
But also I'm, I, I'm in a weird, I'min a weird position where like, uh,
I live in like LA County proper now.

(58:44):
I actually live in the San Fernando Valleywhere a lot of this takes place, right?
Uh, where, where thehousing development is.
I could be living in one of the housesthat Harvey Gael built, I don't know.
But, uh, but I'm originally from a littlefarther north of LA County where just
even like 60 miles outside of LA County,earthquakes get a lot less severe.
So it wasn't until I moved to LA Countythat I really started feeling earthquakes

(59:05):
and had them talked about constantly.
And so it's, it's just possible.
I have just not heard it come upyet, but I have not heard of 10 Blos.
No.
Well, I'm counting on you to bringit back into the popular vernacular.
I'm
gonna, I'm definitely gonna start using it every single time now.
Yeah.
Just a little Tumblr.
Just a little Tumblr.
Yeah.
And so we're about five minutes in andthat's when these two people realize

(59:26):
that both of them are named Jake.
And he says, how about that?
Two Jakes awesome.

Murph (59:33):
It's good.
Yeah.
Five minutes in.
Get the Tuo line out of the way.
Yeah, it, I bizarre.
It's a bizarre title.
It made

Greg (59:40):
me laugh.
Yeah,
I think it's a good titlefor a different movie.

Murph (59:46):
Yeah, right.
Like that's fine.
Whatever.
Like Chinatown is an odd title forthat movie just because they like,
they keep referencing it like,oh, anything can happen there.
Do as little as possible.
And then it ends there with, that'sthematic Jake's thematically China Town.
You just walk away from it.

Greg (01:00:02):
Appropriate.
Yeah.
I was trying to think about likethematically or like right conceptually,
what does the two Jakes mean?
Like is it the idea of likethere's past, is supposed two
Jake and the current Jake, right?
Is that the other like non Right.
The two sides of a

Murph (01:00:14):
personality.
Right.
You grow as you, youknow, experience things.
He's not the same Jake that hewas, that he was in Chinatown.

Greg (01:00:22):
I guess I, I suppose that's it, right?
Like that must be the,it gets just literally
that they're named Jakeand there's two of them.
I think that's it.
Yeah.
Well I guess like there's,there's two Jakes and they're
both protecting the same person.
Yeah.
That's kind of what we also land on.

Murph (01:00:38):
I could just imagine the meeting, like where they're trying to decide that.
I don't know.
The two Jakes.
Yeah.
Like we've been here all night.
Let's just get outta here.
I don't care anymore.

Greg (01:00:46):
It, it is, it is very, very funny.
The proposed third movie hadan even worse title though.
Like they just, they justkept degrading each time.

Murph (01:00:54):
Well, it's a spiritual sequel to Kramer versus Kramer.
Yeah.
Well,
yeah.
It was going to be about him, him gettingdivorced and that's why it's called that.
So it basically is Kramer versus Kramer.

Greg (01:01:06):
It was a legacy sequel to an entirely separate film.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Murph (01:01:11):
Meryl Streep and Giddy versus Giddy.

Greg (01:01:14):
Not a bad pairing though.
Nicholson and Streep i'd.
Yeah, I'd watch it
later that day.
Get us at the hotel recording.
Berman's wife Kitty, Jake Bermanbursts into Kitty's room and
recites his lines as planned.
Then he goes off scriptand starts shooting.
He kills the man that hiswife was sleeping with.
The, I do love, I think that it's an amazing detail that the guy's
two pay flies off as he is killed.

Murph (01:01:37):
I mean, that's great.
If you're gonna start banging a girl,you're not gonna be like, Hey, let
me, let me just take off thing off.
Yeah.
It's gonna ruin the sex appeal.
Yeah.
At City Hall Gidi is escortedto the LAPD homicide division
by Captain Lou Escobar, anotherreturning character from Chinatown.
And actually one of my favorite shots of the movie is like, where it's

(01:02:00):
like from below, that's like showing upto the ceiling and be like, well, I don't
frisk him before I send him into a roomwith a guy sleeping with their wife.
Yes.
So that part kind of confused me.
He does specifically say he didn'tfrisk him, but he also says that
he knows it was in the room.
Is that his way of like,

Greg (01:02:19):
well, I think he was sarcastically saying he didn't frisk him.
Right.
Being like, right.
I couldn't, I couldn't tell.

Murph (01:02:25):
I, I thought it was sarcasm.
I think he's just the thinglike in Chinatown, like he
doesn't, he'll lie to him.
Um, and just like to not giveanything away to like, not
implicate himself into a crime.

Greg (01:02:37):
Yeah.
I, I took it as like sarcasm.
Like, like no shit.
I frisked him because the other optionis like, I sent a guy a, you know,
poss into this room where peopleoften kill over, you know, infidelity.
So like, of course Ifrisk them beforehand.
Mm-hmm.
Is how I took it.
Yeah.
We learned that the investigatingofficer in this case is Detective Loach,

(01:02:59):
David Keith, son of the cop that shotEvelyn Moray at the end of Chinatown.
And uh, these two do notlike each other at all.
Yeah, it is, it is annoying that one.
He looks so much like Robert Wooland two, his name is David Keith
and not, you know, and is alwaysconfused with David over Keith.
David, because I made themistake of watching the credits.
Meg, holy shit.

(01:03:19):
Like Keith, David is in this.
Wow.
And then realizing, I'mreading the names backwards.
Yeah, they need to be in like a buddycop show called like, uh, the, the two
Keith Deth
Deth Kavid or something.
I like that's better.
De Cavin starring Keith David and David.
Keith,
Jake Berman's lawyer, cotton Weinbergershows up and tells Giddy that the

(01:03:40):
gun was registered to the dead man.
Mark Bodine on behalf of b and BHomes, a company owned by Jake Berman
and Mark Bodine Giddy did not knowthat the man sleeping with Berman's
wife was also his business partner.

Murph (01:03:53):
Well, it's done in such a great way of that like.
I wanna keep saying Keith David, but No.
David Keith.
Mm-hmm.
Like kicks Jake Nicholson, Jake JackNicholson, out of, out of homicide
and like, uh, Eli Wall is like,no, no, no, I want to talk to you.
Come here.
The whole thing about the like phonecall and like hanging it up, it,
it's just a really great, like oneupping of how bad Looch is at his job.

(01:04:16):
Yeah.
Well and that's another thing.
Jack Nicholson is not great at his job.

Greg (01:04:20):
Well, no, but that, that's consistent from Chinatown too, in a way.
Right?
Exactly.
Like, yeah.
Uh, I do love that he always has tohave like, some fuck up like assistance,
you know, like it's, unfortunatelyit's not Bruce Glover in this one.
I was sad to see he got replaced, but it's

Murph (01:04:34):
like, couldn't you just know that?
Yeah.
Like these two people werepartners that were ing each other.
Right.
But I do love Eli Wall's.
Line of disrupting ahomicide is not all bad.

Greg (01:04:43):
Yeah.
Oh, he's great.
I mean, he is, he's always fantastic.
Uh, giddy goes back to his officeto find the deceased man's wife,
Lillian Bodine tearing up his office.
We get some very Mickey Mouse musicin this scene, and I don't know if
you guys notice this, but I thought ofall the things to complain about this.
I thought the score was prettyfucking terrible at times.

(01:05:05):
And this is one of those times
I, I think I, I agree with that.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's really, really not great.
No.

Murph (01:05:11):
A another sad thing is like rewatching Chinatown
today, that score is phenomenal.
It's great.
Yeah.
It's, it's, it's a great score.
I love it so much.
Jerry Goldsmith did thisone, if I'm not mistaken.
So I'm kind of like, whyis it so bad sometimes?
But can't all be winners.
Yeah.

Greg (01:05:27):
Everybody misses sometimes they're all gonna be planted.
The apes, right?
Or Star Trek.
Yeah.

Murph (01:05:33):
No one's batting a thousand.
Mrs. Bodine except JohnWilliams, sorry, excuse me.
John Williams.
Mrs. Bodine believes that Jake and KittyBerman planned her husband's murder and
threatens to go to the newspapers, butkitty's punches her unconscious, takes
her home and keeps her under watch tomake sure that she's unable to do so.
This wasn't accidental, right?

(01:05:53):
Like he, like literally like,oh, I'm going to hit you.
Yeah.
Strategically.

Greg (01:05:58):
I mean, he makes some kind of joke of like, oh, she
walked right into it, right?
Yep.
But yeah, uh, he, no, he meant to do that.
Later that night, Jake is at, or giddyis at the office listening to the
wire recording when there is anotherearthquake that causes the power to go

Murph (01:06:13):
out.
Right before that though,is just such a great sunset.
I'm pretty sure it's just a map painting.
Yeah.
But just magnificent.
So I'm talking

Greg (01:06:22):
about though, it looks fantastic, I think it looks great.
One of the things, those

Murph (01:06:25):
little details that you find of like, god damn, like the, they used to
really do things in movies sometimes,

Greg (01:06:31):
and again, they do Again, shot by Vtu also said like, did close
encounters with a third kind, and, whichI watched within the past couple weeks.
And so like, but it just, it ithas that same kind of weird reddish
orange hue as when the aliens areoutside of the house in that film.
And it's like, I don't know, it, tome it, it still kind of had a lot
of like, you know, I don't know.

(01:06:52):
There, there's a, there's a richnessin how this looks to me that
that carried a lot of the film.
I would definitely agree with that.
Yeah, there's another earthquakethat causes power to go out.
Jake falls asleep in his office anda man with muddy shoes breaks in and
attempts to steal the wire recording,but the power suddenly comes back
on, and the wire recording resumesplaying, which wakes Jake and causes

(01:07:15):
the, would-be burglar to flee.
And on the recording, Jake hears Bodinesay that Katherine Moray could give
Jake Berman a whole lot of trouble.
Katherine Moray is, of course,the daughter of e Evelyn, which
was the, the case from Chinatown.

Murph (01:07:29):
It's, it's just so muddled as well as like, oh, well, the power goes out
and I can't take it out and put it in thesafe, or the alarm will go off like it.

Chris (01:07:38):
Yeah.
So

Murph (01:07:39):
overly complicated at times.
Mm-hmm.
It's, it's just so hard to getinvested in when it's that dumb.

Greg (01:07:46):
But also, the second we have, we, the second we learned that Catherine
Mole is involved in this, I, you're justlike, okay, well, it's Kitty, right?
I mean, like Kitty Catherine.
Yes.
Like, maybe it's just 'cause Ihave an aunt, I have an aunt named
Catherine, who everyone calls Kitty.
So maybe that was just a, the what,but it was that obvious, right?
Yes.
I mean, I immediately knew,I'm like, okay, it's her.

Murph (01:08:05):
I hadn't seen it, but when I was looking at the, uh, Wikipedia cast,
oh, it was Catherine Kitty Berman.
I was like, see, I didn't, I didn't

Greg (01:08:13):
see that, I guess

Murph (01:08:14):
so

Greg (01:08:15):
I, I just saw the twist a mile away.
Like, I, I justimmediately figured it out.
Yes.
If for me it was Kitty, Ibet that's Catherine Moray.
Then seeing her for the firsttime, that's definitely her.
So 100%, yeah.
Very little mystery.
Giddy goes to Li Lillian Bodine's house.
She's taken some pillsin an attempted overdose.
Giddy induces vomiting inher and calls a doctor.

(01:08:38):
He is met at the house byher lawyer, Chuck Newie.
Newie explains to giddy that MarkBodine and Jake Berman had set up
their partnership on a San Fernandosubdivision, and such a way that if
either of them died, the other wouldassume the other's liabilities and assets,
which would potentially be worth fiveto $6 million, and that as a result,

(01:09:00):
Lillian Bodine would receive nothing.
He also explains that Giddy is goingto get sued one way or another,
either by Lillian or Berman, unless,of course, giddy can prove that the
murder of Mark Bodine was premeditated.

Murph (01:09:14):
Again, just overly complicated, like that's the whole plot of it
is yeah, this business arrangementthat we have, if one of us dies,
the other just gets it all cool.

Greg (01:09:23):
And I, I kind of don't mind that the stakes aren't like
someone's gonna kill Jake or like,you know, whatever it, but the, the
stakes being you're gonna get sued.
Just to me, just seems sokind of like who gives a shit?
Just like, okay, take her to court.
Like the husband hired her for aservice and like, it's not Jake's
fault that the guy was killed.
I'm sure.

(01:09:43):
Like, okay, maybe the court's gonna beannoying to deal with and expensive, but
like, it doesn't seem, to me it's like,okay, well now he has to solve this case.
Like it's not Im imperative.
You know?
Like, I don't know.
I didn't, yeah.
I never bought the stakes of this.
I think we've also passed at this point.
He does talk to, he hasa fiance named Linda.
Yes.
Who is not really a character in this.
Mm-hmm.
To the point where they don't even showher face for like until the last 15.

(01:10:05):
Until she walks.
Until the, until, until she's

Murph (01:10:09):
going to leave him yet.
And what

Greg (01:10:10):
is the, but what is, is there a purpose at all to not showing her face?
Like when, when we see her on thephone, she's just shot from behind
and it seems to be a, making a dealout of like her having red curly hair.
'cause that's what it'sreally focusing on.
Well,

Murph (01:10:25):
Greg, in movies, they don't always shoot them in order and they
already shot the ending with that oneactress and they couldn't get her back.
Oh.
Honestly, actually, like

Greg (01:10:33):
that is probably, is a, is a good theory.
Yeah.
Honestly, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah.
Goes in search of Evelyn Moray and as he'sdriving around, we get to hear tumbling
tumbleweeds by Sons of the Pioneersand also apparently covered by Clint
Eastwood, which I just learned today.
Oh, that's right.
Oh yes.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
I talked about him, if you look confused,but we talked about it, uh, on this,

(01:10:56):
the, uh, the Contenders episode.
Mm-hmm.
Clin Eastwood sings it on his,uh, rawhides Clin Eastwood
sings the Cowboy Classics.
Yeah.
I also found out today, 'causeI just earlier today watched
Kelly's Heroes with Clin Eastwood.
Mm-hmm.
He also sang the title theme to that, orhe did a cover of, of the title theme, um,
called Burning Bridges, which is great.
So he was like the Will Smith ofhis era releasing like a song for

(01:11:18):
every movie he did for a littlebit, like, you know, and you try to
recapture that magic with Grand Grino.
Yeah.

Murph (01:11:24):
Before we go too far, I did really like a line in this part, and this is
where they're trying to do that cinematiclighting where it's him and uh, uh, Larry,
his old associate from the first movie.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
And you know, he's going over likewhat the lawyer asked him to do
and Larry's like, is that ethical?
He goes, Larry, he's a lawyer.

Greg (01:11:44):
Yeah.
And I like that little pause hetakes before he laughs at that.
Right.
He, he goes, huh.

Murph (01:11:47):
Yeah, but they are trying to do that like, oh, cinematic noir lighting.
Yeah.
You got just a little bit on their eyes.
Um, yeah, I think I know that the BigLebowski came out after this movie,
but it's, it's always, it's, it wasjarring for me to hear this song
that is like so intimately context.

(01:12:09):
Yes.
It's, it's not like youdon't hear it on the radio.
Like, I only hear it when Iwatch The Big Leki, so it's,

Greg (01:12:16):
which the Big Lebowski, I mean, it's good to bring up
when talking about Noor fans.
Yeah, true.
'cause like that is true.
I mean, yeah.
Famously is just almost theexact same plot as the big
sleep, you know, which is Yeah.
One of the more famous DeMars.

Murph (01:12:30):
Okay.
Because we had this conversationrecently, would you say Big Lebowski
is a parody or a satire of noir?
It more satire.
I mean,

Greg (01:12:39):
it's, it's in both worlds, but I would say, I would say satire.
Yeah.
I would say like, this is the equi,you know, it's like, that's like
the nineties equivalent, right.
Of what they're talking about Then,like that similar sort of like your
main character is somebody who is like aoutside of society, but also kind of like
he's kind of floating through mm-hmm.
All these different worlds, like both the,the underworld and like the regular world.

(01:13:01):
I don't

Murph (01:13:01):
think like have any seen outside.
That's the thing is like with all his
perspective, right?
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

Greg (01:13:08):
Yeah,
yeah.
I think I would lean towards satire.
Yeah.
There's parody in some way, butit's, 'cause it's not obviously
like parodying all the noir stuff.
It's not like, you know,they're blowing up the tropes.
It's kind of playing themstraight just in a comedic.
Mm-hmm.
Like, you know, I don'tknow, like shell, it, it's,

Murph (01:13:26):
yeah.
So probably the most successfulnoir, like in the modern era.
Well, it wasn't successfulwhen it came out.
That was not successful, you know?
Yeah.
But a lasting Yeah.
You know,

Greg (01:13:38):
reverence.
I, I just remembered another one that,that came out within the past, like,
I think in the past 10 years, but thenice guys was another like modern noir.
Yeah.
That actually really worked.
Right.
And, but again, similarly didn'treally make that much of a splash.
Right.
Like, you know, didn'treally make that much money.
A cult classic.
Yeah.
Right.
It's more of a cold film.
Yeah.
Uh, giddy finds that the landformerly owned by Evelyn and later

(01:14:03):
Catherine Moray, is now in fact ownedby Berman and is the site of Bodde
and Berman's housing development.
Giddy presses Berman, but they'reinterrupted by one of Berman's employees,
Tyrone Ottley, who explains that there'sgas rising under the subdivision to
a level that is getting dangerous.
A point that is ever sobeautifully illustrated.
When Giddy shortly after telling Bermanthat he intends to prove that Berman

(01:14:26):
murdered Bodine cops a squat on a well andlights a cigarette and blows into the air.

Murph (01:14:33):
It, it's the most like jumping the shark.
In cinema I think I've ever seen, like Ido not know how you come back from this.
Like it is just so over the top insanity.

Greg (01:14:46):
I kind of, I, I don't know.
I liked it.
I thought it was

Murph (01:14:49):
Of course you do.
Yes you do.
Yeah, I know.
Sure.
I liked it.
I thought it was not becauseI thought it was good.
I thought it was veryfunny to have a guy Yeah.
Talking about, oh God, there'sgas everywhere, and he just sits
on a well and lights a cigarette.

Greg (01:15:04):
Yeah.
I don't know.
I, I, I enjoyed it.
It also feeds into like, it, it is a, a,a troop of, of noir films that like I.
Uh, not everybody kind of re like, does,but there's often like a psychedelic
like, um, like bent to a, like,almost to a lot of classic noir films.
I mean, even talking about the Grabowskidoes it with all his dream sequences.
Mm-hmm.
But there's usually a moment whereyour main character is drugged or

(01:15:26):
knocked out and they have some sortof like, nightmare about the case.
And there's a lot of repeated dialoguefrom, you know, things they've heard
before, like moments where, you know,he's hearing Catherine Mora's name
over and over again and this I believe,or like, they do some kind of weird
psychedelic like shots at some point.
Yeah.
It's the camera's likespinning around, right?
Well they do, yeah.
When he

Murph (01:15:44):
is coming back in like a record spinning.
Yeah.
But that, that is, it'sjust a little ridiculous.
It's a little too much.

Greg (01:15:51):
It's a lot it, but that is a classic dir trope and I, I
don't know, I usually like it.
I, it's usually just a way to establishthat like, you know, this case is
getting to your, your detective, likeit's weighing on their mind, it's
causing some, some stress and to see itmanifested in like a weird, trippy way.
Yeah.
I just usually find that fun.
But this one, you'reright, it's pretty lame.
Just it's, it's like, it looks reallylike, it looks like the spinning

(01:16:13):
newspaper fucking thing, you know?
It looks like that goofy.
So yeah, it does not work inthis one, but I just appreciate
having that trope, I guess.
Fair enough.
Uh, giddy is awakes in Berman'soffice trailer and meets Berman's
wife Kitty, Meg Tilley giddy pressesboth Kitty and Berman, asking them how
they got the land before he returnsto his office to thumb through his

(01:16:35):
files on Catherine and Evelyn Moray.

Murph (01:16:38):
Well, he also, uh, has a scotch and soda, which is the
perfect cure for a concussion.

Chris (01:16:44):
Yes.
Yeah.

Murph (01:16:45):
Like once you get, you know, knocked out, you gotta go for a scotch.
And so to really get inthere for that brain damage,
well, in the forties, that wasthe cure for everything, right?
Oh, yeah.
Uh, giddy goes to speak with Khan,the former butler of Evelyn Moray,
the score when he's looking through these pictures and James Hong comes up

(01:17:06):
like it's, it suddenly turn changes tolike slightly eastern type of thing.
Yeah.
And you're like, well,

Greg (01:17:14):
yeah.
They also just, this is just like, I mean,I movies do this all the time, but like,
they seem to just be using like productionstills as like the newspaper photos.
Yes.
When he's flipping to the thing that, thatalways irritates me that it's like, it
just is a shot from Chinatown, just bay
done away behind.
I guess a newspaper reporter
was just there off camera during, in Chinatown taking this photo

(01:17:36):
conversation that you guys are having.
Yeah.
Uh, con says that he has had no contactwith Catherine for quite a while.
GA's notices some unusualflowers, and Khan explains that
they were Catherine's favorite.
She bred them so.
This is another part that confused me,but I think I kind of got it the second
time I watched it when I was paying moreattention to the newspaper articles.

(01:17:59):
I guess the implication is that sheran away from Noah Cross and lived
with Kahn at this nursery or whateverit is for some unknown period of time.
Is that
right?
Okay.
I think so, yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just like going back to, I mean,I've been, I've, I've been defensive
at this movie up to this point, butonce you, when you mentioning the

(01:18:22):
toasting the Seeds thing again mm-hmm.
That is the, I I, I really hated thatwhole thing of like, I guess it gets him
to think about how hair can be dyed, andthat's how he makes that realization.
Yeah.
Like it is the courtes thing to connectthose, using that, using the seeds thing.
It's, it's so lame and yeah, I don't know.
I just, I found James Hong's thingin this just really superfluous, and

(01:18:44):
I just, 'cause I don't know, I guessI maybe wanted more of him or wanted
to play a bigger role or something,but it just felt like, I don't know.
We're bringing back the Butlerfrom the first movie, you know, and

Murph (01:18:54):
all he's, well, do you think it's just because he became more of
a cult figure or like a bigger star?

Greg (01:19:01):
But is he, I mean, he's not really a cult figure at this point though.
I mean, like, he'd been popping upin things, but he's not like big
trouble, big trouble in little China.
He, he had been in big trouble, Iguess, but that's not like propelling
him into the stratosphere or tothe point where we're like, well,
we have to have James Hong back.
Sure, sure.
Right, right.
Yeah, maybe like nowadays, like yeah, I get it.
Like nowadays it, it means a lotmore to see him pop up again.

(01:19:23):
You're like, oh, that's fantastic.
And it's cool.
But it's like, when, when I sawthat they brought him back, I was
like, well, they must bring himback for like a bigger reason.
You know?

Murph (01:19:32):
Honestly, it feels like they were just like, who's alive?
Who's still alive?
I mean, mean, that's big part of it.
You can't, you can't,

Greg (01:19:39):
right.

Murph (01:19:40):
Besides Faye Dunaway, they even get Faye Dunaway with the voiceover
because it's like, you're still here.
We can, we can get him readinga letter and use your voice.
And if I'm not mistaken, he's still alive.
So he is still alive.
Fingers crossed he's still around.
Nicholson and Hong can returnfor Giddy versus Giddy.
Make

Greg (01:19:58):
it

Murph (01:19:58):
happen.
Faye Dunaway's still there.

Greg (01:20:00):
Oh, that's true.
Yeah.
She, am I correct wrote she wrote a second

Murph (01:20:03):
letter

Greg (01:20:04):
Yeah.
That she can misread uh, she canpull it out of, out of, um, uh,
Warren Beatty's hands and misread it.
Yeah.
Giddy returns to his office where Jewishgangster, Mickey Nice, and his associate
Liberty Levine are waiting for him.
Mickey forces giddy to detonate a grenadein his office, safe in the hopes that

(01:20:25):
the wire recording will be destroyed.
But when the grenade detonates,we learned it was all a ploy.
The grenade was fake, and Mickeysearch Giddy is safe only to find
that the wire recording is not there.

Murph (01:20:37):
Well, so he threatens him by having him hold the grenade.
Yes.
And then like, I'm gonna shoot youif you don't put it in the safe.
Like, isn't that just a dumbidea to threaten someone holding
a grenade, even like it's fake.
We know that afterwards.
True.
But like, is that reallya threat at Point?
If you shoot him, he
drops it and you all die.

(01:20:58):
Right?
You just throw it, throw it at him.
Duck.
Yeah.
It, I don't think they reallydid mini passes on the, like,
original version of the script.
Uh, it's good enough.
Yeah.
We'll, we'll skip over some pages, sowe'll, we'll figure it out in shooting,
editing, we'll put in some narrationediting and then, yeah, and then they
just never really got it together.

(01:21:19):
It's not, it's not cohesive atany point, like Chinatown is.
So the grenade was fake and giddyand, uh, Mickey search is a safe,
the wire recording's not in there.
Giddy.
Tells Mickey nice that the recordingis being held by his lawyer.
Mickey tells Giddy that he wantsthe recording before Liberty
Levine knocks giddy, unconscious.

(01:21:41):
When Giddy Iss awakes, Lillian Bodineis in his office, she explains that
Mickey Nice and Jake Berman grew uptogether and that they are best friends.
She has come to ask Gides totestify that Berman knew his
wife was in bed with Bodine.
She also asks for the wire recording.
Jake won't let her have the recording,but he will let her listen to it.

(01:22:02):
And this is what I believe to bethe most insane scene in the movie.
I mean, how do you guys feel about this?
It's great.
He has another scotch and soda after asecond concussion in like as many hours.
Um, and Madeline Sto has just oneof, i, I love a pink Agora sweater.

(01:22:24):
It just, it's such a great liketime capsule of something like that
was really popular at one time.

Greg (01:22:32):
Yeah.
This, this scene is to me,uh, absolutely unjustifiable.
Like, uh,
this is where, because I thinkup to this point, I, I'm somewhat
on this movie's wavelength, youknow, like, I'm not like loving it.
Mm-hmm.
But I'm kind of like, okay, I'm kindof interested in, in all of this.
And I, oh yeah, I saw the twi,I see the twist coming with
Catherine, but like, just kind ofwrite it out and see where it goes.

(01:22:54):
And then the, the Lillian stuff,I, I think again, it, it's all
fine until that tape starts playingand then I do not understand.
Yes.
Like the character ofLillian at all at this point.
Like, I.
I think she thinks she'sin a different movie.
Yes.
Yeah.
Because she is like, for these threeminutes or whatever it is, becomes a

(01:23:15):
parody of like, women in noir movies.
Like she's, well,

Murph (01:23:18):
even in her first scene where she's like, per Yeah.
Acting drunk.
Like over, over the top anyways, but you

Greg (01:23:25):
can, you can say, well, she's drunk and she's like, her husband
was just killed and she's hammered.
Right.
There's also the scene where she's in

Murph (01:23:31):
bed, she just took the pills.
Mm-hmm.
And like, is fighting Nicholson andlike, shocked that he, you know,
her, uh, night slip, like rises up.
Yeah.
He can see her butt.

Greg (01:23:40):
That's the thing.
It's like, yeah, that stuff is crazy.
It's all over the top.
But again, they had the justificationof she's drunk or on pills, like mm-hmm.
So she's acting in a particular way.
This one, I don't know, when she hearsthe gunshots on the tape and she's yelling
at him to turn him off, but also jumpingon him and hitting him and smacking him.
Yes.
As he is trying to turn it off.
Like, and then they are suddenly makingout and about to have sex, like mm-hmm.

(01:24:05):
Uh, it's, it's so crazy.
It's crazy.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
Like, it's crazy.
He
starts playing the wire, she tackles himand says, oh, you're gonna make me do it.
Yeah.
And then Yeah.
He says, down on your knees,stick your ass up in the air
and don't move until I tell you,

Murph (01:24:23):
he's so out of breath.
When they start like, okay, we're gonnahave sex that he needs to tell her,
like, take off your own clothes and letme get like a little drink of water,

Greg (01:24:31):
which Okay.
Which I thought, okay.
He is, he is like getting her to turnaway so he can do something about it.
But like, no, he, I guessBen just has sex with her.
Yeah.
I mean, after he notices her lighter,but then he just does have sex with her.
Yeah.
It is,

Murph (01:24:46):
it's Madeleine Stoke.
Greg, come on.

Greg (01:24:49):
Uh, look, I'm not saying I, she's throwing

Murph (01:24:50):
herself at you.

Greg (01:24:52):
I don't know.
I thought there was gonna be somethingmore clever to him saying like, it's,
it's what he says is kind of abrasiveand shocking of like, take off socks,
bizarre and put your ass in the air.
I'm like, okay, well he'sdefinitely getting her to turn
around for something, Greg.
There's some kind of like,I dunno, ingenuity here.
Like, he's gonna look, he is, I'm,I'm not being, trying to be funny.
I think that like, as like, becausethat is like a, a facet of your

(01:25:13):
classic noir detective is that they'regonna like, be manipulative, right?
Mm-hmm.
And get what they want by like, youknow, I don't know, getting a person
to do something and then you're gonnalike, I don't know, tie her hands
behind her back or something and like,like him punching her earlier, right?
It's like we've seen that with, with her.
He is like willing to kinda like dothese things to get her outta his way.

(01:25:34):
Yes.
Or like whatever.
But no, instead he just follows throughwith it and does have sex with her.
And I'm like, that just kindaseems vastly irresponsible.
And I know he isn't irresponsible guy,but like, it just seems like a really,
really stupid move for kind of no reason.
I don't know.
He

Murph (01:25:47):
has a fiance as well.
Like, what the hell?
That's, I

Greg (01:25:50):
mean, that too, and I'm not saying that he's gotta be a faithful
guy, but it just like a game off to meis a really strange move on his part.

Murph (01:25:56):
We do also have in the recording the mention of whip stocking, which
she hears as whips and stockings andshe's like, I knew she was a hussy.

Greg (01:26:05):
That, that's kind of funny.
I thought that was a little funny.
But I don't know.
It's also just like when you have acharacter like Lillian just kinda written
to be this like stupid and vapid, itjust is really irritating, you know?
And again, the first two scenes I couldkind of handle it because like she's
drunker on pills, but in this one, likeshe starts out the scene like actually
revealing some interesting informationand like playing it more straight and

(01:26:27):
then it devolves into like, you know,like a complete cartoon character,
you know?
Yeah.
It fucking weird.
I feel like, I dunno whatto say other than that.
It's just super weird and like, doesn'tseem like it's in the same movie as the
rest, the other two hours of this film.

Murph (01:26:45):
Uh, two 17.
Yeah.
So like even seven minuteslonger than the original.
It, yeah, it needs to be paireddown maybe like 27 minutes.
Like I feel like wecould get an hour and 50.
You're saying?
You're saying, and in 27

Greg (01:26:58):
minutes total is how it, as long it should have been.
I read

Murph (01:27:01):
Well.
Yeah.
Limited series.
One episode, that's all we need.
Yeah.
I read a very funny IMDB trivia piece,which there's no way to substantiate,
but it was like it played in a movietheater for three weeks with the reels
out of order before anyone noticed.
Yeah.
Which, who knows if true.
Maybe that's a superior

Greg (01:27:21):
way to watch it.
Yeah.
I'm I'm saying it's true.

Murph (01:27:25):
Let's get Topher Grace on the case.
Yes.
He can recut the movie.

Greg (01:27:28):
Yeah, I was gonna say we hit the, or the, with the guy
that edited phantasm together.
Give us the, the out of order cut.
Yeah.
Maybe, maybe is the superior version.
We'll cut in Chinatown.
Yeah.
Wow.
It's just mo mostly Chinatown.
Yeah.
The next morning, Jake's employee,Larry presents him with the title
transfers for Berman's Land.

(01:27:48):
Catherine Moray transferredthe land to Mickey Nice.
Who immediately transferredit to Jake Berman.
Giddy confronts Kitty at a beauty parlor.
She denies that she and Bermanplanned Bodine's murder.
Giddy goes to the, uh, a notarypublic office to inquire about the
land title transfers, and the clerkwhose jaw is wired shut is very cagey.

(01:28:10):
Apparently, some other people camein three weeks prior to ask the
same question, and the clerk'sjaw was broken for blabbing
about it.
That's the kind of oldschool noir favorite.
I love though, that stuff I've liked.
Yeah.
Just the, yeah, that was, was good.
The kind of the, the surreal weirdness ofhaving this guy with the jaw wired shut.
You know?

Murph (01:28:29):
Uh, it makes me think of the, the guy in the Hall of Records in Chinatown.
I mean, it's, it's that kind of,

Greg (01:28:35):
it's clearly that kind of scene.
Yes.
Like it's eeb,

Murph (01:28:38):
right?
Yeah.

Greg (01:28:38):
Mm-hmm.

Murph (01:28:39):
Um, right before this though, there was a great voiceover line.
One of the few actual voiceover linesthat I really liked was something along
the lines of like, you have to chase thepiece of the puzzle that doesn't fit.
Which I thought was just like one of thosethings of like, well, that's a noir Yes.
Type of niche thing.
Like you're really getting into thatidea of a mystery and you have to look

(01:29:02):
into what's not actually connecting.
Yeah.
Is that the same?
Section of voiceover, becausethere's so many of 'em.
Is that the same onewhere he's like, right.
I think's
when he's driving in the, the orange field where you're
like, you're humming the song that
you've never heard before.

Greg (01:29:19):
Right.
Yeah.
It's, I that it's, it's a lot oflike, again, cliched kind of like, uh,
yeah, it is cliched, but I, I likeactually really liked that section.
Yes.
Yeah.
But it also could be from like any noirfilm, they all kind of like, have lines
like that peppered throughout them,which again, that's not a complaint.
I, I do like that stuff too.
My complaint though, is havinghim in the orange fields again, I
just like, anytime they just likerepeated like stuff from Chinatown.

(01:29:42):
Mm-hmm.
I, I, I found it really annoying.
Inspired, well, they have to,

Murph (01:29:45):
to go through the orange field to get to the, the subdivision.
Right.
But I guess that is like the fineline of like, are you actually
reflecting on what was before?
Or are you just mm-hmm.
Parings not the right word, butlike, are you, are you just like,

Greg (01:30:00):
no, but like, are ripping, exploiting it, you know, like, oh, it's
a great shot when he's driving throughthe orange fields and the, and the
original, so let's just do that againand it's gonna recapture that same magic.
I, I think the intent is thatlike, we're supposed to reflect on
how time has passed or whatever.
'cause he drives out of the orangefields into like an actual housing
track where it's, it's different, right.

(01:30:21):
But it just, I don't know it, I didn'thave faith that they were like trying
to like, not also just exploit thenostalgia people have for Chinatown.
Yeah.
I mean, I can't say that I necessarilyreally had a problem with those sort
of things, but that also could bebecause I didn't have any time Right.
To like, sit with Chinatown.
I like, I watched one after the other.

Murph (01:30:42):
I guess that's an interesting thing.
I had a couple days between them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I, because I had, I've seen Chinatown, I mean, it must have
been like in high school, like oneof those movies, like, oh, it's in
one of those books of 1,001 movies.
Mm-hmm.
You must see before you Die.
Or it's just a classic afterI see Rosemary's Baby, oh,
you should watch Chinatown.
That's another great one.
Um, and to not go, I mean, at least likemaybe 19 years, like maybe even more than

(01:31:08):
the 16 years longer than the originalfrom what I've seen it, uh, it's, yeah.
I, I have so much that like,I want to pull from this.
It's just not doing it in any way thatreally makes me appreciative or like,
it, it's not fulfilling in any way.

Greg (01:31:25):
It's not like justifying a legacy sequel.
Right.
Sure.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
I guess, I mean, I think I just, I'mused to the way it's done now, which is
like, if this movie was made, there wouldbe a scene where it's like the audience
reaction is supposed to be like, I.
Oh, so that's where, that's wherethey came up with the idea for

(01:31:45):
the fish being the mascot ofthat yacht club in the first one.
Like, just, just like answering questionsyou never asked in the first place.
So, sure.
Yeah.
Or like solo, like Oh, that'show Chewy got his, his crossbo.
Okay.
Well I
think that's kind of why I'm annoyed by James Hong not being a bigger part.
'cause it's like, oh, were wewondering what happened to the Butler?

(01:32:07):
Like, you know what I mean?
Sure.
Why does, yeah.

Murph (01:32:10):
You're wanting James Hong to like, give Jack Nicholson.
That lightsaber that hadjust been like, stored away.
Yes.

Greg (01:32:16):
Oh, totally.
Yeah.
For

Murph (01:32:18):
years and years at the story, a story for

Greg (01:32:19):
another time.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
One of the, that, that line inparticular is one of the, the things
that makes, I get, I, I try not to getirrationally angry about stuff like
that, but that line makes me so mad.
Um, yeah.
We're almost there guys.
We're almost there.

(01:32:40):
Jake.
It is an endurance test.
Really?
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Jake meets with oil magnate EarlRowley, and he has sort of been in
the background of this whole thing.
Uh, his wife is in a scene.
It doesn't like none ofthis fucking matters at all.

Murph (01:32:59):
Uh, he, there's a matchbook Yeah.
That has his, his business logo on it.
There's a lighter for, um,Madeline STOs character has that.
Yeah.
All the,

Greg (01:33:10):
all the oil derricks, uh, have, uh, but Richard Farnsworth

Murph (01:33:12):
is just, he's great.
He, he has that perfect.
Aw, shucks, mister.
Um, what's the line of just like,you know, will Rogers line, can you
tell me what you think is going on?
And I'll tell you if I think you're right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And again, he's good in the 30seconds that he is in this movie.

Greg (01:33:29):
Yes.
And I think the, the, the, where theyshot this on the pier with the fucking
sun hitting the water the way it is.
I think it looks immaculate.
It looks so good.
Uh, yeah.
I, I love that shit.
And, but yeah, he is amassive red herring, right?
Like in, in this.
Mm-hmm.
He ultimately kind of has zeroconnection to what is going on,

(01:33:49):
aside from the land being valuable.
He wants, well he'sstealing the oil compel.
Right.
But, and he's causing earthquakes.
He's causing

Murph (01:33:55):
earthquakes.
He's doing Mr.

Greg (01:33:58):
Burns.
That's true.
He literally is drilling a slave.
Right?
Isn't that what they actually determine?
Like Yeah.

Murph (01:34:03):
Sort of.
That's what whip stocking is.
They relate it to like breedinghorses and he says like, two
horses on their honeymoon.
Yes.
It's a terrible analogy because Istill don't know what whip stocking is.
Like
You mean you guys don't have someone help you,
guide you in when you're, I I

Greg (01:34:22):
mean, I, I feel like it, yeah.
It, it's really just, it'spriming the land for drilling.
Like that's kind of all it really is.
Right?
Like you're doing something tothe land to get, to make the oil
more accessible or easier to pullout that that's what took away.
But no, I think it's like the

Murph (01:34:36):
drilling of just like, you're, you're going at a, a different way to
see this is from another right here
is that we are it literally Mr. Burns.
Uh,
the whole thing is about mineral rights.
It's like, who the fuckgives a shit about that?
Like, again, about China.
That's, China is just like with the,

Greg (01:34:53):
with the noir thing, right?
It's where like the waterings in in Right.
The wa But the water rights inChinatown are red herring too.
The murder was not over water rights.
I mean, it is a benefit, right?
Of killing, uh, hollows no's.
It's

Murph (01:35:05):
about the water, right?
Like,

Greg (01:35:06):
well, it is about that, but it it's also about, it's about the, the daughter,
but it's more about the daughter.
It, that's what don't, theaction horror of it is, I don't
think, I mean, it's, it's both.
I,

Murph (01:35:15):
I think it, I think that's where that works.
Better think into thatwith like the investment.
It is, it is a very interestingthing with Hollis Moray.
Marrying a very young girl that is hisbusiness partner's daughter, who has just
been raped by her dad to have a child.

Greg (01:35:31):
Right.
And that's like, but that's like also likethe, but the, the real thing though is
that that's the real divide between them.
The ideological divide by like howto use LA water is also a thing.
But again, that's a giant red herring.
Right, right.
Like it is like, and that's thecase here too, the mineral rights.
Mm-hmm.
They are like the vehicle that kind ofkickstart things, but we find out more it

(01:35:51):
is actually Jake Bergman's Health, right.
Is the actual thing.
And his desire to, to care for Kitty.
Like that's the actuallike thing going on.
Yeah.
It's like
Earl Rowley is the new gun Ray slash TradeFederation of it all, but now we get it.
Katherine Moray is really like the SenatorPalpatine, when you think about it.

Murph (01:36:13):
Slightly less racism

Greg (01:36:15):
in there.
Just a little bit less.
A little bit less, yeah.
I also just love too that they have aMoray drive in this, because like Moray
is supposed to be, he's an obviousstand-in for William Mulholland,
like an actual person mm-hmm.
From the history of LA who workedat the L-A-D-W-P to build an
aqueduct and all this stuff.
Um, and so in this world,there is no Mulholland Drive.
It is Moray Drive.

(01:36:37):
And where he is too, it is a, a,an intersection of Canyon Road and,
and Moray, which is a real placethat intersects with Bo Holland.
So that means that in thisworld of the two Jakes.
That eventually a film was madecalled Moray Drive, directed by Yes.
Uh, maybe not David Lynch, but maybelike Dennis lunch or something.
Maybe it's all just a little off.

(01:36:57):
Right.
And instead, and instead he eats atlike, uh, I don't know, like Tom's Trim
tyke or something, you know, instead of

Murph (01:37:05):
Naomi Watt, it's Naomi Gigabit or something.
Yes.
You know, it's

Greg (01:37:08):
like 100 per, there you go.
Yes, exactly.
It's all just a little off, you know?
Yeah.
So in this exchange, gides floats the ideathat perhaps Raleigh had Bodine killed,
because Raleigh believes that there isoil under the housing development, and
Raleigh denies that and talks aboutwhip stocking, which I don't think

(01:37:29):
we have gotten to the bottom of yet.
But two more viewings of this movie,and maybe we'll finally understand it.
Yeah.
Uh, giddy meets Tyrone Ottley at a club,and Ottley has evidence that proves
that, contrary to what Raleigh says,he is drilling towards the subdivision,
which is what has been causing therecent seismic activity in the area.

(01:37:53):
Unfortunately, the club theymeet at is owned by Mickey.
Nice.
Nice.
And Liberty Levine take giddy to aback room in the club, but just as
they're about to start torturing him,the club is raided by the police and
everyone including Giddy is arrested.

Murph (01:38:09):
I actually really like the scene and it's just a hallway.
Yeah.
But it's the red light.
Mm-hmm.
And the fact that like Mickey grabs anice pick and starts talking about like,
uh, blackmail and extortion and howit's even worse than physical torture.
Physical torture.
Like you can only take somuch and then you'll die.
But mental torture and just theway he's doing it and he like

(01:38:29):
pokes the wall with the ice pick.
I actually, I really like the scene.
I think this is one of thetop parts of the movie really?

Greg (01:38:37):
And, and it is.
I gotta say again, I think itlooks fucking amazing at him
walking into the Green Parrot Club.
Uh, like the, the lighting.
Yeah.
You mentioned the red in the hallway,but the green and the purples of the
club itself, you know, I is really cool.
I also really like, uh, I thinkhe's such a bizarre performer.
Tracy Welter, like he is, I alwaysend up liking him, but he is like.

(01:38:58):
Kind of always on a differentwavelength than the movie he is in.
Mm-hmm.
Like even in Batman where he has zerolines and it's just the henchman, like he
just has this odd presence to him always.
And the way he is like talking veryneurotically about the drilling and having
the camera like it is just a weird energy.
I appreciate in that scene.
So yeah, I think I just, yeah,I, I think this is one of the

(01:39:21):
better scenes in the entire film.
Yeah.

Murph (01:39:23):
Well, he had already had the one scene with the like soda pot
bottle and he like, yeah, the holding

Greg (01:39:28):
it, the Lib Brea Tar Pits.
Yeah.
Gas in the Well,

Murph (01:39:29):
and you know, if it's from mm-hmm.

Greg (01:39:31):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

Murph (01:39:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a great one.
But like the way that he's acting inthat Lib Brea Tar Pits one where he
is like, uh, we can't talk right now.
Like he's too nervous about it.
And I think he actually doesa really good job about that.
But yeah, he take, yeah, it is verymanic in the, he has the club scene.
He also

Greg (01:39:47):
has one of the best lines.
It's, and it's in this kind ofclassic movie moment where he's like
giving a lecture about the tar pits.
But of course, it's like thematically Yes.
Related to the plot where he says a greatline, he says Animal, electro animal.
Literally dying to eat anotherdying animal, which we find out
is what Jake Berman is doing.
Right.
He himself is dying, but he takes thisopportunity to like lash out at somebody

(01:40:10):
else and kill them before he does

Murph (01:40:12):
like, well, it, yeah.
And it goes back to the originalChinatown of when Jake is talking
to Noah across, and he is like,yeah, how much are you worth?
You're worth over 10 million.
Yeah.
Which in the thirties,like astronomical amount.
And it's just like, you know, what canyou buy that you don't already have?
What?
You know, you can't eat better food,so what's the whole point of this?

(01:40:32):
And he tells him the future.
Which is what Berman's whole motive offor this is, is like a future for Kitty.
Right.
But it feels like Kittyalready has like enough setup.
Mm-hmm.
You could either sell the land oryou have the mineral rights there.
Like just don't give them to Raleigh.

Greg (01:40:51):
Well, at the thing, I don't think Raleigh, that's the
other thing I'm confused about.
He's already taking the oil.
So like what did Right.
So she would

Murph (01:40:58):
be, she would have the right to sue him for everything that they've done.
Yeah.

Greg (01:41:02):
Well, but then like she doesn't get to do it.
I mean, I don't know it, it's justgiant fucking shrug who gives a shit.
Right.
Like that's what it comesto is, and that's the

Murph (01:41:11):
part about it that like so disappointing that like it in Chinatown,
the water doesn't matter by the end of it.
Like, as you know, theyincorporate the valley.
Yeah.
They bring the water to the people.
There's no, there's nothe people to the city.

Greg (01:41:24):
There's no winning, no getting, it's all about the

Murph (01:41:26):
personal relationship between them.

Greg (01:41:29):
Yeah.
There's no winning in that one.
Like Noah Cross, he has the water.
He's not gonna let it go.
You're not gonna get out of his hands.
Like there's Yeah, like he's gonnado whatever he wants with it.
Yeah, totally.
I will say I do think itstretches credulity a little bit
that, uh, gides doesn't know.
This club is owned by Mickey.
Nice.
Yeah.
It's like

Murph (01:41:47):
he's bad at his job.
We know this like time after time hegets hired by someone in the original
that's not who they say they are.
He doesn't even verify like whothe moray is, quote unquote, like
having an affair with when he'sjust being a father to Catherine.
I'm pretty sure that's what it is.

(01:42:08):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Greg (01:42:08):
Turn Yes.
Exact.
Yeah.
So yeah, he is arrested and back atthe station, detective Looch is trying
to get giddy to tell him what he wasdoing at the club and as a threat.
Another detective played by Tom Waitssays that they have a police officer
who claims that giddy fondled hisprivates in the men's room of the club.

(01:42:29):
Looch starts talkingshit to Giddy the two.
Get into a fight.
Loach pulls out a gun well, but giddywrestles in the way, punches him.

Murph (01:42:37):
Yes.
Uh, giddy kicks him back.
And then Loach is like, well,I'm just gonna pull out the gun.
Mm-hmm.
Nicholson takes it from him and then justin an amazing, again, PTSD scene Yeah.
Was like, I fucking suck the,I'm gonna blow his brains out.
He's gonna suck this gun and die.

Greg (01:42:53):
Yeah.
It'd be a lot more effective.
And they just like recast looch.
Right.
Instead of making it the son of Looch.
Like, I get you, I get it.
If the original actor is unavailable forwhatever reason, but then just recast him.
Right.
But like, I, I don't understandwhy they have to make it the child.
'cause then it's like, okay,he's so fucked up that he's gonna
like shoot the sun in the head.
The guy, the kid that hadnothing to do with it.

(01:43:13):
Like, you know, like he's an asshole.

Murph (01:43:16):
Like he said, like, oh, my dad's a good, good shot.
Yeah, he's a dick.
But

Greg (01:43:19):
yeah, I guess, but I thing just make it the same guy but recast him.
You know, put another, get,get an excuse to get another
like veteran actor in there.
Get Roy.
In there.
One, they, what?
Exactly.
Get Roy tall in there.
Say Too tall now.
Tall.
Yeah.
Robert Wool.
Get him in there.

Murph (01:43:35):
Yeah.
Okay.
So Richard Blin, uh, knownas Loach in Chinatown.
1931 to 2015, he was alive.
Holy shit.
At this

Greg (01:43:45):
time.
Jesus.
Yeah.
That's, I don't died 80 before.
Yeah.
He was not available.
Just recast 'em to somebody else andsay, it's Lote then, then it, it, this
part actually really, really works.
And I think the fightitself is pretty good.
And I do like the intensityof like, suck this gun.
Like it is.
Yeah.
It is like, it is tense, you know.

(01:44:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm still just mad, mad at myself.
I'm recognizing Tom Waits.
I'm, I'm so angry at myself.

Murph (01:44:10):
Yeah, you should be.
But like, just the fact that he givesup the gun and just like the way that,
it's just like, okay, I'm stepping back.
And the way he still gets arrested.
Well, because Looch pisses himself.
That's good.
Pretty good.
Pretty good.
Yeah.
I, I loved, uh, hearing Jack Nicholsonyell, suck it four or five times is Yeah.
Probably the highlight of themovie for me, other than whatever,

(01:44:33):
like, put your ass in the air.
And I was gonna say, dad,put your ass in the air.

Greg (01:44:37):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
So he's released and back at hisoffice, he's going over the evidence.
He remembers that the day of themurder, a chair was delivered to
Kitty Berman's room by Bay City Linenaccompanied, owned by Jake Berman.
Giddy steals a Bay City linen truckand drives it to the Berman residence.
And he shows Kitty that the chairdelivered to the room that day had

(01:45:00):
been specially modified to concealthe handgun that Burman used to.
This is so bizarre.
Keep birding this bizarre.
Yes.

Murph (01:45:05):
It's, it's really like just a, like complete out of nowhere.
Oh, now he's stolen a truck.
He's in a uniform andhe has the exact chair.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
That was delivered.
That's exactly it.
And used as an accessory to murder.
So there's, there's something missinghere in the edit bay on the floor, but it,

(01:45:26):
the movie's already two hour, 17 minutes.
I don't understand Yes.
Why it went this direction.
That specifically is where the problemis because much like Raleigh, this Bay
City linen has been sprinkled, but thefact that he gets somehow manages to
get that exact chair, like we, it's,it's like, what are we doing here?

Greg (01:45:48):
Yeah.
It's just like a, it's a weird plotdevice invented for this like kind of
half twist of, like a half reveal of likethe gun was in the chair the whole time.
You know?
Yeah.
I.
Yeah.
Uh, yeah.
Giddy and Berman meet on a golfcourse to discuss what needs to
be done about this new evidence.
Berman offers to pay Giddy off, butGiddy explains that he can't do that.

(01:46:10):
Giddy again.
Pressures the issue of Catherine Marayand Berman tells Giddy to turn over
the wire recording before the end ofthe golf round, or he will be killed
while at the Tee Berman collapses.
Pretty bizarre.

Murph (01:46:22):
Yeah.
Also, when you're like, let'splay 20 bucks a hole, like
you can't just kill the guy.
I, at the end of the round,like expect to collect money.

Greg (01:46:30):
I, I still kinda like, I still kinda like this scene.
It's just like, I don't know, an excuseto have them outdoors and doing stuff
while they go over this, this dialogue.
And I think, again, I think, I thinkHarvey Cattel is pretty great in this.
Um, I don't, I I am sad he didn'tlike whip it out on the golf course.
I was totally expecting that.
Like he would tee off with it, you know?
But, uh, yeah, it's,that was disappointing.
Well's Bizarre.

(01:46:51):
Other than that

Murph (01:46:51):
Jack Nicholson like gets a great shot in Harvey.
Cattel like fucking itslices or whatever Right?
And then bounces back and goesfurther than Nicholson's ball.
Yeah.
It's the, and the way they cutit is almost like, I'm so good.
I knew to do that.
I did that on purpose.
Right?
'cause this is my golf course, soI know to hit the tree right there.

(01:47:12):
Well, he has a worst

Greg (01:47:13):
handicap.
It doesn't make any sense.
Or is the implication.
He has like a goon hiding in thewoods that like throws the ball out.

Murph (01:47:21):
No.
'cause we get the, we get theshot of the ball hitting the tree.
Yeah.
Specifically it's, that wasn'tB unit, that was Nicholson.
I need to get this.
Right.

Greg (01:47:31):
Right.
Very weird.
Um, I'm also just very confused withthe ending of the scene where he says,
Hey, like, did I miss something though?
Yeah.
Like he says, gimme he's dying.
Kill Buddy's dying.
I, yeah.
Gimme the taker.
Is that it?
That's the thing is that he gets weakand collapses and, but he covers it
up with the weird and that, let me do

Murph (01:47:51):
this one-legged golfer joke, and then I'm too weak to
stand on one leg and I collapse.
Yes.
And just, uh, uh, you know it, but it's soweird of like, do this or I'll kill you.
Okay.
And then I get sick and justbe like, remember what I said?

Greg (01:48:05):
Okay.

Murph (01:48:06):
Cut to next scene.

Greg (01:48:07):
I did not put that together at all.
I mean, like, obviously he like findsout he's sick in the next scene.
Mm-hmm.
But I just still didn'tmake the connection.
It was such a weird, surreal wayto end it that I just like never.
Okay.
Yeah.
All right.
I get it now.
Yeah.
It it's still bizarre though.
So,
giddy follows Berman to his doctor'soffice or his doctor's house, or

(01:48:28):
the pro shop at the golf course.
Not really sure.

Murph (01:48:32):
I I just wanna say at this point, he's got a smoking hot doctor.
That oncologist, Ooh, baby.
I didn't clock her at all.
Just a, just a blonde with a bun back of the head glasses.
It's, I mean, it sounds, it soundsgood from what you're, she can tell me,
saying, tell me what medicine I should
take.
Yeah.
I'm happy with it.

(01:48:52):
He finds some X-rays that hesteals and, uh, later that
night he has, Giese has, it's a
HIPAA violation, if anything.
Yeah.
HIPAA probably may nothave existed back in 1948.
Finder's.
Keepers.
So Giddy has Kitty meet himat his home and while they're
talking, giddy is fiance, who isanother thing that's constantly,

(01:49:17):
slightly been in the background.
She barges in and breaks up with him.
Well, he, he is avoiding the DA who was trying to issue him like,
uh, a subpoena for the recording.
So he is like, well, we have tolike, keep all the lights out.
So we have to have thismeeting by candlelight.
And of course we're gonna bedrinking as we have this meeting.

(01:49:40):
So the fiance walks in and sees this.
Not good.
No, not good.
It's
business though.
It's business.
Well, we have, as we've seen, heoften mixes business with pleasure.
So is he a guy to be trusted?
Do you think?
Sheet Linda was a former client.
Is that how they met?
I

Greg (01:49:59):
mean,

Murph (01:50:00):
probably knowing him like a

Greg (01:50:02):
course.

Murph (01:50:02):
Yeah.

Greg (01:50:04):
No, I, I don't get her inclusion, uh, on any level.
Like, it, it, it's, it's completelysuperfluous to this movie.
And like you, me saying earlier, like,oh, they had, they shot it out of
order and they couldn't get her back.
So that's why she's, 'cause they, theymake a weird mystery out of her face.
And then when you see her,it's nobody we've seen before.
It's got nothing to dowith the rest of the film.
They, but they keep mentioning

Murph (01:50:24):
her.
Mm-hmm.
And that's the whole thing oflike, they keep mentioning her lot.
Yeah.
Oh, Linda called, he's go, Mickey'sgoing through his like, call diary.
Like, oh, Linda.
Linda.
Yeah.

Greg (01:50:32):
Lo I guess the idea being, maybe the idea is that like, it's
showing how much he is delving intothe past, that he's like foregoing.

Chris (01:50:39):
Yeah.

Greg (01:50:40):
Anything else that was going on in his life up to this point.
That's, that he's willing to throw thataway at an attempt to get some kind of
resolution to the events of Chinatown.
Like, yeah, that's what I was gonna
say.
If I'm being charitable to why she'sin it, it's like at the beginning you
assume that there's character growthbecause this guy from Chinatown is, he's
somewhat settled down and has a fiance,but as we hear in the last part of the

(01:51:05):
movie, like the past never goes away.
So ultimately, like has he changed?
No.
She breaks up with him.
He is like, that's my, mycharitable interpretation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I guess that, yeah, that makes sense.
But it's, yeah, it's, it still like leads.
I don't know.
It's, it's, to me, it would beso much better if they just, I
don't know, they hide her facein that first time she appears.

(01:51:27):
So that, like really stuck in my craw.
Like, well, they intentionallyshot her from behind for a reason
and they really didn't, you know,like it really is just meaningless.
Like, oh,

Murph (01:51:36):
maybe this will be Catherine Moray.
Mm-hmm.
Like, it's, it's a, itis a red herring know.
So that would've

Greg (01:51:40):
been, that would've been insane.
Yeah.
If she had ended up being Catherine Moray.
But like, uh, that also wouldn't havebeen outta the realm of believability
for this movie, I guess so, you know.
Yeah.
Uh, Kitty's notices that Kitty iswearing an ornate flower pendant.
He asks what kind of flower it is.
It's a poppy, the exact same kind offlour that Katherine Moray had bred

(01:52:02):
while she was living with Kahan.
She is Katherine Moray

Murph (01:52:06):
ba
Wow.
Yeah.
It's not as much of an impact aslike, I have a sister daughter.
Yeah.

Greg (01:52:16):
Yeah.
Well, certainly not.
And again, just like, I don't know.
Making that connection.
Using the Wild of Flower to meis just, is is, is very lame.
Like I, you know, it, it, it's, it'slike, oh, he remembered that hair
can be dyed and I guess that meansthat she possibly has dyed her hair.
Mm-hmm.
So that's why he didn't write.
Yeah.

Murph (01:52:35):
Well, she is in that room of four redheads only.
Yes.
So

Greg (01:52:39):
that's true.
Oh, yeah.
And again, I, my, like, my brainwas like, okay, well, Linda's
a redhead and here's this wholething with like, for redheads only.
Is that gonna make some kind of No.
Like, that also doesn't, you know,that was just me reaching, I guess,
how do we feel about Meg Tilleywith Blue contacts and Strawberry
Blonde hair isn't working.
It's not the, it's not the Meg til Meg Tilly I, I know and

(01:53:03):
love, but, uh, I guess it's fine.
I don't know.
She does look strange, like it doessomehow not feel natural on her, you know?
Well, it

Murph (01:53:11):
feels like this is the first scene where we've got
a clear look at her mm-hmm.
As well.
Yeah.
Because like I mentioned earlier,it's, it, it's very quickly when she's
sleeping with the, the toupee guy,it's sunglasses, the beauty mask done
up, like, as a gardener with a hat.
So this is a real like,oh, should I recognize you?

(01:53:32):
Uh, I, I think she's actually gorgeouswith the, the strawberry blonde, right?

Greg (01:53:37):
I mean, she is, I don't think you can hide that on me, Tilly, but like,
but she still just looked really like,almost like uncanny to me, you know?
I don't know.
There's something about it.
True.
Yeah.
At a grand jury hearing to determinewhether or not Jake Berman should
be brought to trial for Murder.
The wire recording is playedbefore the courtroom, although
it's not the same recording we'vebeen hearing throughout the film.

(01:53:59):
It's been altered to Absolve Bermanof wrongdoing and make it sound as
if Bodine pulled a gun on Berman.
Jake and his team testify thatthis is how things went down.
Lily and Bodine, having heardthe recording in Giddy office
a few days prior, realizesthat the wire has been altered.

Murph (01:54:16):
The biggest thing is that it takes out Catherine, because they're
talking about Catherine is Bodine issaying We need to get in contact with
Catherine, which is even more confusingbecause it seems like he knows Kitty.
No, he does.
He doesn't Is Catherine, but isn'tthe right, no, I guess he doesn't,
the scene later in Burman is talkingabout like, that was the blackmail

(01:54:36):
of like, you need to give her to giveup the mineral rights, or I will.
Well, he was go and say, oh,kitty is actually Catherine Moray.
Yes.
Who is a whole incest,

Greg (01:54:49):
oh, I guess you're okay thing.
So I guess him bringing her up onthe, him bringing her up at that point
is him telling Kitty, Hey, I knowlike that's him insinuating, like,

Murph (01:54:59):
it may be trying to say like, Hey, I want you to admit
to me that you are Catherine.
Yes.
I guess that's it, right?
Yeah.

Greg (01:55:07):
Okay.

Murph (01:55:08):
May I, again,

Greg (01:55:09):
it's,

Murph (01:55:10):
it's overly complicated.

Greg (01:55:12):
The most confusing thing to me is, is the fact.
That Lillian, when she's hearingthe tape in court, doesn't freak out
and start like attacking somebodyin the on, you know what I mean?
Like she hears the gunshots anddoes not have, like, she doesn't
flip out like she did earlier.
Yeah.
She doesn't just start fucking someone.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah.
The ba grabbing the bailiff and yeah.

Murph (01:55:33):
All of the women in the courtroom are wearing those
like veils over their face.
Mm-hmm.
It is such a great fashion sense thatI hope comes back around, like, maybe
we have to wait another 16 yearsfor this to get into 2040s, but man,
like it was bizarrely interesting.
But again, devil's advocate, it's a famouslook of, uh, Faye Dunaway from Chinatown.

(01:55:57):
So it's kind of like, what if we had fourFaye Dunaway in one scene, the four fas?
Hey, yeah.
Hey, I, I'm not gonna object to that.
I think Faye Dunaway, she lookslike an alien, but she is one
of the most attractive womenI've ever seen and network.
She is mesmerizing.

Greg (01:56:17):
Great.
Yeah.
Can you argue there?
I do love, I do love aboutthis, this court scene.
How terrible, like the DA seems to beat his job of like, just like what?
Like Eli Wallick is walking all overhim in this, in this court case.
Like the, he's just fumblingthe entire time and he is
like, well what about that gun?
Or like, uh, no.
It's like, what about Jake beingarrested at the Green Parrot Bar?

(01:56:39):
And the judge correctlyidentifies like, this has nothing
to do with this case at all.
Like why would youbring that up right now?
Like at every second, like, you know, EliWallick is just like, yeah, dog walking.
This guy, it's great.
In voiceover.
Again, giddy explains that he didthis to protect Kitty slash Catherine
and that he knew because of thex-rays he had stolen, that Berman

(01:57:01):
was not long for this world anyway.
So his upends would come.
Soon enough, Kitty's goes tothe housing development and
confronts Berman with the x-rays.
Berman says that Catherinedoesn't know that he's sick.

Murph (01:57:14):
There is a scene earlier when he finds the x-rays.
There is the voiceover that I alsodo really like talking about how
like looking at a guy's x-rays is asintimate as it gets another, just like

Greg (01:57:26):
I especially 'cause it's also an x-ray of his pelvis because
we can guess it's cystic cancer.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Like I think is the implication.
So yeah, I like that moment too.
'cause it implies a lot.
Yeah.

Murph (01:57:36):
Yeah.
Just like the voiceoverdoesn't add so much.
Like it's so.
Unnecessary so much of the time, butthere are a few points where it really
does hone down and just like the perfecttone of a noir of what we want, it's just
so unlike what we've had in Chinatownthat it is off-putting to a degree.

Chris (01:58:00):
Yeah.

Murph (01:58:02):
It is hard to put the finger on of like, uh, why, why don't you work?
Why is it just like not connecting?

Greg (01:58:10):
I think a lot of it comes down to did Olson's performance of it really.
Right.
Like, I don't think he'seven bad in this movie.
I think he's like finethroughout a lot of this.
Um, I think near the end when he iskind of like reckoning a lot with the
past and the realization of who Kittyis, I think is a pretty good scene.
And it's a lot of like quieter momentsfrom Nicholson that af after that.

(01:58:34):
Right.
Like I think that once he's kind oflike, you know, like coming face to
face with this like specter of the past.
I think the Nicholson is actually reallyquite good there, but all the voiceover
just was tossed off by him, you know?
Mm-hmm.
It just feels like he, like, youknow, was forced to come in and
read all this in a day, you know?
And like you say, it done as, asquickly as possible a director.

(01:58:56):
I think he also wroteall of the narration.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The thing, I think again, it's like thisis an obligation by him to finish this.
He wants to get this movie made sohe can just stop thinking about it so
he can just move on to other things.
That's what this all feelslike on, on a certain level.
So we can move on to, uh, how do you know?

(01:59:16):
Yeah,
yeah.
Anger management with Adam Sandler,

Murph (01:59:22):
which is not a terrible performance, but like, I, I don't think it
that he's giving a bad performance here.
I mean, he said he put on weight to showthat, you know, giddy was getting into

Greg (01:59:34):
Yeah.
That was the reason.
Which, which is

Murph (01:59:35):
everybody.

Greg (01:59:36):
Yeah.

Murph (01:59:36):
Everybody at every actor loved to say, well, you
know, I gotta put on weight.
Mm-hmm.
But I think it, I think it's hisdirection, but I think it's just, I don't
think the plot is very good in this movie.
I think there's an interesting story, butthe actual plot that they're trying to use
with it doesn't connect in the same way.
Again, it's so personal at the end ofChinatown, and they're trying to get that

(02:00:00):
here with the fact of that Harvey Kittelhaving cancer, but it doesn't really
connect in the same way, which I think isa, and it's, is cancer like a new thing
in the fifties or forties at that point?
Like, when did we knowof the name of cancer?
Like when is the big thing coming out?
'cause it's like, oh, I needto have radium implants.
Mm-hmm.
To cure my cancer.

Greg (02:00:21):
Right.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I don't know when cancer was,was dropped on the world.
I have not.
When did, I'm assuming its alwaysbeen around in some fashion coin

Murph (02:00:30):
that term.

Greg (02:00:31):
Yeah.
But, uh, yeah, sort, that's the scenewe're at now is, is the, aren't the
house and development, like there's anearthquake that makes oil bubble up.
Right.
And that,

Murph (02:00:41):
that's expensive shit, he says.

Greg (02:00:43):
Right.
So, but this, but this is the firsttime that Jake Bergman is realizing
that there is oil underneath the ground.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Like, yeah, he had no idea beforethe scene, which I, I like that
again, the red herring of the oilof like, we think that like, okay.
A certain point, you know, uh, Gidi isconvinced, like this murder was about

(02:01:05):
oil, but then to realize that the killerhad no idea the oil was even a thing.
I again, I like that.
Yeah.
As like a piece of like,misdirection for a noir plot.
I think that is like, it is a good moment.
And then I think the scene of likeHarvey Cattel laying out on the table
is fantastic and learning that like,you know, he accidentally did drive

(02:01:26):
her into the arms of his partner.
Yes.
'cause he was trying to hide his illness.
Right.
Like, I think this stuffis all really, really good.
I think the way it wraps up is alsopretty bizarre though, of like, I'm
gonna blow myself up in the oil field'cause I'm gonna stay and have a smoke.
Right?
Yes.
Like, it's, it's such a weird, weird,weird way to end all this, this stuff.

(02:01:49):
Yeah.
And we
find out that Berman was doing thissolely because he loves Kitty and
didn't want her identity revealed.
Like, as you said, he didn't knowabout any of this other stuff,

Murph (02:02:00):
but yeah, I guess so.
But she also, he's also like, I needto set her up for the future, which
is a callback to, you know, no.
A cross thing.
Yes.
With like, how much do you need?
But she's already rich, right?
Yes.
Like she has all this land, but shewould've also inherited everything
that Noah Cross already had.
So she should be likevery wealthy regardless.

Greg (02:02:23):
Yeah.
But with Noah Cross being who he is,like, does she want that money or
like anything to do with him though?
Right?
She deserves it.
Deserve, well, she already has the,

Murph (02:02:32):
it's, the land is in her name.
And that's the whole thing aboutthe, the, like, the, uh, main
mystery of the movie is who ownsthis land or has the mineral rights.
Well, of that, I guess if youdon't, if you don't qualify when
you sell the land, you stillremain whatever is underneath it.

Greg (02:02:49):
But the money is one thing, but it's, but it's also like.
They don't want her to go through thetrouble of like being associated with the
tragedy of like Noah Cross and her mother.
Right.
They don't her and they'retrying to hide her identity.
Yes.
And and that's the thing too is likeby hiding her identity, she is like
trying to escape from the pa That'sthe entire thing of the ending.
Right.
Of her going to Jake and be like, okay,yeah, we've avoided the, you know,

(02:03:12):
the truth coming out about who I am.
Mm-hmm.
But can I ever actually escape it is likeeverything we did is it all meaningless
if I still am like, you know, in like hadthis inner turmoil over my past and like,

Murph (02:03:25):
which is his whole experience with this movie is the past
haunting him and coming back.
Yes.
And that he can't escape it and thatthroughout the whole movie as he's
talking to her, it's always Mrs. Berman.
And then at that last moment when he islike calling for her, he says Catherine.

Greg (02:03:42):
Right.

Murph (02:03:44):
That's a whole thing about it as well.
I think in, in Chinatown there isthis formality and I think it's, it's
interesting about like, um, Houston alwaysgetting his name wrong intentionally.
Yeah.
Like it's a, it's a slight against you.
I'm better than you.
I can say your name wrong.
And the like, the formalities of saying,you know, Mrs. Berman and that at the end

(02:04:04):
giving Catherine and that he understandsthat she is that character throughout.

Greg (02:04:10):
If we talk about this anymore, I think I'm gonna like,
talk myself into liking this movie.
You know, it's, it's hard as I usually do.
There's

Murph (02:04:16):
so much about it that like, I wanna latch onto.
There are ideas, but it jumps thatshark so many times throughout.
Yeah.
We're, we're close to the end, sowe're about to, and then these next
five minutes we could turn Greg'sopinion around if we really wanted to.
We're close to getting himon the side of the tattoo.

(02:04:37):
I dunno.
Okay.
Okay.
I'll say this, it it like, it's endingin all this like dramatic fashion.
And then Jack Nicholson says somethinglike, that's your problem kid.
You don't know who you're kidding.
And you're like, that's no,yeah, no, this is not work.

Greg (02:04:53):
Yeah.
That is bad.
That is a terrible line.
Because at the end when,

Murph (02:04:57):
when he calls for her and it's this straight Murphy zoom into the office door.
Yeah.
There's so many choices whereI'm like, no, you're, there's
something underneath this.
Like, like the property of band b, which is another thing I
just wanna get into real quick.
Bour and Bodine.
Oh boy.
It's too, like, it's confusing.

(02:05:17):
It doesn't make sense, but it,there's something underneath
everything that they're giving us.
Like there is middle right here.
Do you actually love

Greg (02:05:25):
this movie, Murph?
I just, I was just gonna say, mur,you are like talking in these big
metaphors now about how I do not,

Murph (02:05:30):
but there is some, there is something here where like, I,
I do not think I need to rewatchthis, but there is such a value
and attempt at what they're doing.
There are ideas here.
Next record, you're gonna tell me youwatched it an additional three times.

Greg (02:05:46):
You bought the steel book, you know, you sought out.
No, I custom made

Murph (02:05:50):
a steel book.
Like I reached out to someone onInstagram to make something for me.
Where the inside is actually likethe Faye Dunaway letter on one side.
Oh yeah.
That's good.
And then the, um, uh, uh, the,the, the, uh, sunset that Jackon
is behind on the other has
a clear slip cover ofHarvey Cartel's X-rays.

Greg (02:06:14):
It comes, it comes in the shape of a shoe.
Right?
Like, like one of theirshoes in the beginning?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So the very end scene of this afterHarvey Kittel explodes himself is
what we were just talking about.
They're back at Giddy office andhe's playing a recording for Giddy
for Kitty Catherine that Bermanmade right before he died, which

(02:06:36):
explains to her the whole situation.
And, uh, she's overwhelmed by emotion.
She asks if the past ever goes away.

Murph (02:06:44):
Tries Well, yes.
Yes.
You're you're about to get to it.
Yeah.
She tries to kiss Jake.
Yes.
He pulls back and then shefully plants one on him.
And it is good for, good forNicholson to, to understand.
Well, I was gonna say, I think thisshould not end with them together.

Greg (02:07:01):
I think that's supposed to show growth on Jake's part, right.
Is that like earlier he gavein, it's also the only part of
the movie where he is notplaying himself where he denies
the kiss of a younger woman.

Murph (02:07:14):
That's true.
Part of it is that he has aprevious relationship with her
and then slept with her mother.
Right.
Which was a whole thingabout Chinatown is that he
is, if you think that's a problem forJack, you should, you should rewatch
the trailer for something's gotta give.
'cause that is the plot of that movie.

Greg (02:07:33):
That

Murph (02:07:34):
is

Greg (02:07:34):
true.

Murph (02:07:34):
Yeah.
He's got such sex appeal.
I understand.
Watch a video of him

Greg (02:07:37):
hitting on Jennifer Lawrence at like some Oscars after party or something.
Oh, you talked about that video beforewhere like she's talking about him
being, and he's behind her and doesn'tknow it and then he like keeps like
hitting on her more and more and it'sactually like working in the video.
So yeah, there is somethingYeah, you're right.
He's not playing Nicholson in that moment.
And, and yeah, actuallyshows himself control.
You've got decades of

Murph (02:07:57):
swagger, you know, might as well.
Yeah.
So, uh, she gives himthat, uh, poppy pendant.
They part ways and that's where, uh,he chases after calls her Catherine
and says, it never goes away.
Referring to the past rollcredits, the two Jakes, we did it.
We got through it.
We did.

(02:08:17):
Wow.
And so
only 10 minutes longer than the actual movie
on your show.
You guys like to rate things outof stuff related to the movie.
I feel like the obvious choice inthis would be, let's rate it out of
Jake's, but perhaps you guys have

Greg (02:08:33):
some better ideas.
No, that was, I mean, that wasbetter than the idea I had.
I was gonna do like, I don't know, uh,

Murph (02:08:40):
like McGuffin recordings.
Yeah, I was, I was

Greg (02:08:44):
gonna do like, like, I don't know, dummy grenades or something.
But no, out a Jake's it, it's,that's was staring us right in
the face and we both missed it.
So, yeah.
I mean, I, one of you guys, if youwanna just like, take over and give some
final thoughts and give us your, yourrating of the two Jakes out of Jake's.
Uh, I, I think I do kind of like this.

(02:09:06):
Um, I'm not sure how much of it though,is like, I had heard so much anytime it
was ever talked about, which was rarely,it was in a negative light, right?
Um, of like, okay, you know, Chinatownis so great, and then just the two
Jakes, but we almost like avoid talkingabout it completely because it was
just, it's, it's just unremarkable.
It's, it's bad.

(02:09:26):
It's a complete failure.
Maybe even somehow tarnishes thelegacy of Chinatown to talk about it.
Um, so I'm not, so I'm not sure if Ijust kind of want to like it to like be
like, you know, different contrarian.
Yeah.
To be contrarian.
I know you, I'll be like, Hey,actually there's actually some
stuff that's pretty good in here.
But I do think that there are somegenuinely impressive things about it.

(02:09:46):
I do think that like beingshot by VMO Sigmund you, it's
impossible for to not be beautiful.
Um, I think it, it looks incredibleand I think there's a lot of
very memorable setups in this.
And I think that like, in the sameway Chinatown did it scratches
this itch of like this periodpiece about Los Angeles, right?
And, uh, it is just a lesserversion of that in a lot of

(02:10:09):
ways as opposed to water rights.
You're talking about oil,you know, there's all these
mirrors that they set up.
It's got all the legacy SQL issues, butit still, to me was vaguely satisfying
as like, we're, we're taking it back toa different era of Los Angeles a a city
that I currently, you know, uh, live in.
And, um, it's always exciting to belike, Hey, they're into Santa Fernando

(02:10:30):
Valley, where I again, currently live.
There is just something nice aboutthat and cool and, and something
I appreciate and I think there'sjust a lot of great performances.
Like, uh, I think Meg ly is pretty good.
I think Harvey Canel is great.
I love the weirdness of Tracy Walter,and I think that like Nicholson
has some moments, but ultimately,yeah, it is a giant letdown on

(02:10:51):
a, on a plot and story level.
There's, I could see where there wereareas for like greatness or for a very
interesting follow up to Chinatown, butit, it just kind of becomes like, it,
it's supposed to be about like how youcan't escape the past in a lot of ways,
but it also just feels like it reallywants to revisit the past with Chinatown.
And it's all those, again, thoselegacy sequel issues of like when

(02:11:14):
the re when they're back to like justincorporating footage from Chinatown.
I'm just like, well you guys arereally banking on people liking this
because they liked the last one.
I think that stuff really irritates mein addition to like the bad voiceover
and just like some very, very nonsensicalplot moments like Lillian and, you know,

(02:11:36):
the, the Harvey Cattel exploding atthe end, which like, I I, it's weird.
I don't know, it just feels socartoony to me, uh, to end it that way.
Um, after a very emotional scene with him.
I think I'm going like, I thinkprobably just like a 2.5 Jakes.
I think that like, it's not horrendous,but it's also like understandable

(02:11:58):
that this did gains reputation.
It did.
I still think it's worth watching.
I still think people should see thisif you like Chinatown or are just
kind of chasing like a noir vibe.
I don't think it's like that good,but I don't think it's also that bad.
It was just kind of like mediocre.

(02:12:18):
What a beautiful way to end your thoughts.
It was just kind of mediocre.
So that's, uh, what'd you say?
2.5 Jakes 2.5.
Jakes 2.5.
Yeah.

Murph (02:12:29):
I, I'm actually pretty close to whatever you're giving.
I, I think it's.
A lot of without inspiration, which issad because after everything that they
gave in such a, I actually think likeone of the most perfect movies of the
seventies, I think like that sorcerer,star Wars Jaws, like these are, like,
these are the high marks of cinema.

(02:12:51):
See, and Chinatown is there for me.

Greg (02:12:53):
I could be on that level if the Long Goodbye didn't like, I think do,
do it better in terms of like neo stuff.
I think it's better.
Yeah.

Murph (02:13:01):
I, I've only seen it once and like I, again, I watched
Chinatown, you know, twice in a weekand it's, it's so easy to go down.
I think it's such a great movie andit is very disappointing that this
doesn't reach those levels and that itfeels almost like an obligation that
they're going through the motions thatJack Nicholson has to take this mantle

(02:13:25):
upon himself to direct it because hewants to get this character's story out
of the way that he feels that it is anecessary thing he needs to continue upon.

Greg (02:13:36):
See, I don't even, not to interrupt your, your final, I'm sorry,
but I don't think he even saw it aslike, I have to resolve this story.
I literally think it was was I just, Iwant to get this bullshit outta my life.
I want the movie to be done and not, Idon't think he cared about the character
of Jake wrapping that up, you know?
But who knows?

Murph (02:13:52):
Well, then why would he like, if he doesn't need to
be financially invested in it?
Like, I don't understand why he would wantto, I, unless he was emotionally involved
in it and he wanted, he wanted to do this.
He didn't need to direct this movie.
I think he had Robert Town on one side andother people, he could have hired it out.
He could have got fucking, uh,Panos Cosmos to like fucking

(02:14:12):
Skeleton direct this movie.
You mean

Greg (02:14:14):
George Cosmos name?
Oh, George,

Murph (02:14:16):
yeah.
George Cosmos, whatever.
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
But like, I think it's hindered bythe overproducing of this movie.
We have the reshoots, we have thevoiceover that, that there are
some good dialogue moments, butall the time it feels out of tone.
And Nicholson seems bored whenhe's actually acting in this.

(02:14:37):
The I the fact that allegedly threeweeks went by and no one noticed in
Florida that the reels were out of.
Like, that speaks volumes towhat's going on in this movie.
Uh, it, it is, it is a, aconfusing mess, but I think
there are some fun performances.
I think Eli Wall has given his all.
Yeah, I actually think,um, uh, what's his name?

(02:15:00):
What's, what's the,uh, the lieutenant guy?
Uh, Escobar es Lopez, I think, Ithink he's doing a really good job for
like, bringing this performance back.
I think the guy that's doing,uh, Larry, what's his name?
Um, uh, Joe Mantel.
It's very interesting to like, havethis like really old guy being a,

(02:15:21):
uh, private investigator, but it, itcan't escape what it was in Chinatown,
which is a near perfection movie andyou can't escape where you came from.
And this movie is trying to be somethingat can't, everybody's like, Hey, let's
get the band back together minus Roman.
But for reasons we're notgonna talk about, but.

(02:15:44):
It, it never fully captureswhat it was in the past, which
is a very interesting thing.
These legacy sequels we've talkedabout Scream, which is one of the
big ones that I think about recentlythat actually had some success
with like, Hey, let's reboot it.
And then immediately shit thebed with Scream Seven or what?

(02:16:05):
That's the thing is likescream, scream seven or

Greg (02:16:07):
Scream six.
Looking back, it's like, Idid enjoy that new scream in
theaters, but now retroactively.
I'm like, but how muchdid I actually enjoy it?
Like, did it actually succeed?
Like when I think about it now, I, I haveno desire to rewatch it exactly that.
Like I, I

Murph (02:16:22):
would watch the Jack Quaid one, but everything after that, I was
like, I, I didn't enjoy this as much.
Um, it is a, it, again, it's not avanity vehicle for Jack Nicholson, but
he had that obligation that he knewpeople wanted to see this movie, if to
talk about it fucking 35 years later.

(02:16:44):
Greg wasn't even born at thispoint when this movie came out.

Greg (02:16:47):
No, that's true.
No, that was not.

Murph (02:16:49):
So, I, I wanna just, you know, give a, a tip of the hat to Jack Nicholson
that, you know, we're still talkingabout the two Jakes this time later.
I'm gonna go 2.3 Jakes rounding up to 2.5.
Wow.
So actually 2.5
2.5 2.5 on any other, on any other platform vehicle.

(02:17:10):
Yes.
2.5.

Greg (02:17:11):
I will, I will just say I think they should release, uh, two and a half Jakes,
which is the exact same story, but fromthe perspective of his two assistants.
Right.
Like on the sidelines, like, youknow, lion King, one and a Half Style,
where it's the same thing, just a real

Murph (02:17:24):
rosecrans and Gild and Stern are dead.
Yeah, exactly.
I thought you were gonna
say with Charlie Sheen when you,that would be the two and a half.
I just go straight to two anda half men, so I'm like, yes.
Okay.
Yeah, let's see what he, hewas actually involved behind
the scenes the entire time.
Yeah.
Boom.
So I probably have much less tosay about this movie than either of

(02:17:46):
you, but are you ready for my finalshocking admission of the night?
Yes.
Oh no, I like this more than Chinatown.
Oh my God.
Uh, and lemme tell you why.
I think a lot of it just has todo with the fact that, as we've
discussed, this may just notbe my genre in the first place.

(02:18:06):
So.
And it's one of those things, like I'vebeen a huge movie fan my entire life.
I don't think any movie could actuallylive up to 30 plus years of hype
that I've heard about Chinatown.
I, I just, it's very rare that I watch amovie like that, that it's been on my list
for so long and I come away thinking thatit deserves the hype that it's gotten.

(02:18:29):
So, you know, things that are personalto me, I would, I mean, Chinatown is
a better film by objective measures.
Is that a cultural thing?
Like after a while it permeates intoeverything that, like you've already known
the beats, like the whole My sister, mydaughter, like it, it's played out in
some parody that you've already known.

(02:18:50):
I had

Greg (02:18:51):
that part, no.
Yeah, that part for me.
No.
Same.
The only thing I knew about Chinatownwas I knew that he had like a bandage
on his nose and I knew the final line.
'cause the final line is inescapable.
That's yeah.
Sense.
It's in that part is just like, right.
Exactly.
Yes.
But, uh, yeah, so I think some of thethings that are problems with this

(02:19:14):
movie actually made me like it more.
The fact that the twist of it's CatherineMoray is immediately obvious as soon as
you hear anything about the character.
It actually like anchoredme to the story in some way.
Like, yes, a lot of this stuff in themiddle doesn't matter, but I at least

(02:19:34):
like could see an end zone, like knowingthat Catherine Moray is Meg Tilly.
And so it became about like,why, why is that important?
As opposed to like Chinatown.
Like I kind of just felt completelyunmoored and questioning like
why I should really care aboutanything that's going on.

(02:19:55):
So yeah, Chinatown better movie.
Which one did I enjoy watching more?
The two Jakes, I hate to say it'cause it's probably one of the
worst takes I've ever had aboutanything but New qr the entire,
I just have to speak my truth.

(02:20:15):
No, look, look, look.
The entire time I was watching thetwo Jakes and comparing the Chinatown
in my head I was thinking like, Iwould love to talk to the person
that prefers this over Chinatown.
And this entire time I have been solike, you are fulfilling something.
You know?
Yeah.
Like, and it just, it's a crazy thing.
It's, maybe it's just becausetoo, I also only watched Chinatown
for the first time last week, butlike, I liked Chinatown a lot.

(02:20:38):
I thought I would, there's a lot toit and I thought there's a lot to
appreciate and I can understand whyit had such, uh, its reputation.
But like, I didn't feel thatthis was so out of like left
field as a sequel or a follow-up.
I, I have more problems with itin terms of just like how it's
presented, you know what I mean?
Like, I feel like, and it couldjust be, I'm so sick of legacy

(02:20:59):
sequels, but I could see a worldwhere I like, like this just as much.
I think that they, they, they, theyfumble in just like the wrong places
in order for me to not come away with asimilar thought as you, I guess, you know?
Um,
yeah.
But I, I, I think it's, I don't think it's that crazy.
I don't think it's, I don'tthink it's, it's too wild.

(02:21:21):
Did both of

Murph (02:21:22):
you just view Chinatown once?
Yes.
I, for this anyway.
Okay.
Because I would say like, this is, thisis a movie that I think is, you appreciate
it a lot more on the, on the fur watches.
So like there is a twoJakes a lot, of course, yes.
But no, but Chinatown, like, just thefact that like, you, you, there's so

(02:21:42):
much red herrings about it, but thenat the end it is so personal and that
like, every time I've watched it, likeI'm just, I'm so captivated by that
ending and it is so disappointing thatthis one cannot recapture that flame.
That everything is like, yeah, likepulsating on, at the end of the, the

(02:22:03):
last five minutes of Chinatown areso electric for me, but it's just,
I also, you cannot like look away.

Greg (02:22:11):
I also think though, that something that the two dicks is trying to do is
talk about how you can't recapture that.
Right?
How, like, how going back to thepast is like a, you know what I mean?
Like, it's always gonna be therewith you, but you can't also, like
when, when she tries to kiss himat the end, that is like the movie
saying like, no, we can't do that.
We can't recapture that old flame.

(02:22:32):
Right?
Like it's, it's dead and gone, you know?
Um, but, uh, and now
I don't like this movie anymore.

Murph (02:22:38):
Well, which is great.
Like, and I think that thatspeaks to a truth, but I don't
think it's as entertaining.
No, it's, which is maybethe actual, you're right.
Biggest sin of this movie Isthat it, it can't, it's not
as entertaining as Chinatown.
Well, I guess it depends onhow you define entertaining.
Because in this one, likeJack Nicholson gets blown up.

(02:22:59):
Harvey Ell gets blown up.
Uh, he tells a woman to point it upupward and put her ass in the air.
Yeah, I, I don't know.
Roman Polanski cuts guy's nose off.

Greg (02:23:12):
That's what I was gonna say too, is I think that's something I was
really missing with the two of them,is that I, I, I really did love the
way Chinatown handled all its violence.
I think it's like, it's, it's alwaysshocking or like, surreal in a weird way.
Like the sudden like the, the nosecut and then like, anytime he like
fights somebody or somebody gets hitin Chinatown, they make the strangest
noises, like the weirdest like, you know,like grunts or like Yelps or whatever.

(02:23:36):
Like when he like smashes the guy's headon the door and then when, like, when
he's like beating up Mulva Hill, that guymakes weird, weird noise outside PM Yes.
Or when, when Rant, Howard'sgoons are beating with the crut.
Yes.
Like the fact that his rant Howardtoo at another surreal element to it.
But like the, again, the weird, likethe guy's, the fact that the guy's
on crutches and fighting with him.

(02:23:57):
And I, I missed that from thetwo Jakes, the weirdness of like
the violence and that stuff.
But any, but no, I could see like thetwo Jakes is ridiculous in a peculiar
way that I also do find entertaining.
It's, to me, it's all just like theattempts to recapture the Chinatown
stuff where it's like, are you makinga point about you can't recapture
it or are you just trying to mind anostalgia of like a movie people liked?

(02:24:18):
That was the stuff that turns me offfrom it and it turns me off big time
from two, otherwise I could be on.
Its honestly level very, of like

Murph (02:24:25):
very, it is a fascinating philosophical question of like, can we
recapture the lightning in a bottle?
Something that had like 11 Oscarnominations, I believe, and just to
go from 11 Oscar nominations to zero,maybe 11 Razzie on that like spectrum.

Greg (02:24:45):
I don't think the Razzies cared enough about this.
I don't think even they, this moviewas so anonymous that like, even
they were just like, whatever,we're not gonna bother with it.

Murph (02:24:52):
Yeah.
Like what if again, 16 years ago we,you know, remake or legacy sequel
Taken already had a bunch of Fridaythe 13th, it's been 16 years since
we've had a Friday, the 13th movie.

Greg (02:25:07):
Look, it just takes them with him to make a, it's to make
any kind of sequel nowadays.
Yeah.
Like they're doing like a, now yousee me three, like eight or nine
years after now you see Me Too.
You know, like it just, thisis just how long it takes now
to get a, to get a sequel made.
Coral to get anything.
It's like people point out like,what is it like, like five or
four seasons of Stranger thingsin like 15 years or whatever.

(02:25:29):
It's been like, just everything hasmoved me at such slower pace nowadays.
Not the MCU.
That's the Yeah, that'sthe only exception I think

Murph (02:25:40):
I, I, I'm, I still want to see Captain America, even though
I think it's gonna be horrible.
I still gotta see it.
I can't do it.
No.
It, it's, they've ingrained it in me now.
I need to see it.

Greg (02:25:54):
Look, I still, I, I still wanna see GDS versus gist.
That's, that's what I'm still, yes.
Still dying for.

Murph (02:26:00):
He's still kicking.
We can make this happen, guys.
Alright.
It needs to GoFundMe.
Let's, let's, let's get this going.
Uh, Robert Evans is dead.
Okay.
I'm pretty sure Robert Town is dead.

Greg (02:26:11):
Probably Olson's Alive.
Look, scene one get us isat the Lakers game in 1995.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Murph (02:26:21):
Okay.
So the first one's oil,or the first one's water.
Second one's oil.
What's the third one gonna be about?
So the third one is, was repurposedas who framed Roger Rabbit.
And then I think after thatis when they came up with
like, he's gonna get divorced.
But

Greg (02:26:38):
it was gonna be land, it was gonna be like air pollution.
I was at one point, Ithink was Town's idea.
Okay.
And it was
like, we're moving through the elements of like water and then, uh, oil
would be like, like earth and then air.
So now we need to do heart.
That's the last element.
Skip over fire.
Just go straight to heart.
That's the thing.
Like, I mean, you could make thenew one about La Fi fires in la.

(02:26:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oof.
We did, I guess we did that.
Maybe they were shooting the newestGid movie and we didn't know it.
Well, yeah, I mean, I think,uh, I give this three Jakes I
liked it more than both of you.
Uh, and it is like we always,all of these like notoriously bad

(02:27:20):
sequels that I end up watching endup not actually being that bad.
So
I, I had the same situation at Pet Cemetery too.
I think that's better than Pet Cemetery.
I agree.
Yeah.
Thank you.
But, uh, yeah,
thank you guys so much forgoing through this with me.
Um, but before we getoutta here, we enjoyed it.
Truly.
I have a little game for youboys that I like to call.

(02:27:43):
Ooh, fantastic.
More than Jake.
I've collected a series of Jeopardyquestions, the answers for which
all include the letters J, k and E,although not necessarily in that order.
So you guys buzz in by calling out yourname and answer in the form of a question.
Make sense?

(02:28:03):
Okay.
All right.
So I believe so, yeah,share my screen with you.
Just the important part is that theseare all Jeopardy questions actually
taken from Jeopardy, except for one.
And the answer is just haveJAK and E in them, but just
not necessarily in that order.
Uh, let me share this.

(02:28:26):
Can you guys read that and see that?
Yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
So first question, you can sleepall night and work all day, but
Time Magazine listed this outdoorjob as the USA's most dangerous.
Oh, what the hell?
Eh,

Chris (02:28:44):
eh,

Murph (02:28:46):
uh, me.
It is dangerous.
Okay.
I'm gonna, uh, uh, uh, what is,uh, uh, fi uh, fishing in Alaska,
whatever that, that, that incorrect.
And
I remind you that the answermust include the letters.
J-A-K-N-D.
Oh, wow.

Greg (02:29:03):
Hmm.
Alright.
Uh, no, that doesn't have it, man.
I'm trying to flash back to everyepisode of Dirty Jobs I ever saw.
We'll just call this one a wash.
Yeah.
Give the answer to kind of what it's

Murph (02:29:15):
being.
Mike Rowe.
Give you guys the answer so youmaybe have a little bit better
idea of how, how it works.
The answer is lumberjack.

Greg (02:29:25):
Got it.
Okay.
All right.
All right.
Oh, sleep on fucking, God dammit.
All right.
Alright, next question.
Lewis.
Carroll warned that this poeticmonster had jaws that bite
correct And flaws that catch.
Greg, what
is, uh, what is a Jabber walkie?
Jabber Walkie, yeah.
Yes,
that is correct.
So it's a one, Greg oneand Murph zero so far.

(02:29:46):
Whew.
Next question.
The name of this hard tochew candy literally says it
could fracture your mandible.
Uh, Murph.
Murph,

Murph (02:29:57):
what is a jaw breaker?
That's correct or tied up?
One-to-one.
It can mean to remove built-inlimitations from an electronic device
as well as an escape from the slammer.
Greg, what is jailbreak?
That's correct, two to one.

(02:30:17):
It describes a person showingmarketability as two words.
It's a favorite snack at a baseball game.
Murph.
Greg Murph, I heard first.
Uh, what is Cracker Jacks?
That's correct.
All tied up at two to two.
A book or motion picturecalculated to evoke sadness.

(02:30:38):
Greg.
Greg, what is,

Greg (02:30:40):
what is tear jerker?
That's
correct.

Murph (02:30:44):
Three
to two In favor of Greg.
This mythical animal of theWest is usually depicted as a
rabbit with antelope horns mere.
I heard Murph.
Uh oh.
All right.
Greg can take it.
Greg, uh, what is, what is a Jackalope?
That's correct.

(02:31:04):
I believe that's four to two.
Now in favor of Greg
in Thunderball Bond makes anescape wearing one of these
personal flying devices we wereall supposed to have by now.
Murph.
Murph,
what is a jet pack?
That's correct.
I believe I got four tothree in favor of Greg.

Greg (02:31:25):
I got so caught up trying to think of some kind of comment about
the recent James Bond news that like, Iforgot to actually answer the question
on the Sopranos veto.
Spata four's pet name for love interest.
Jim.
Also a name for fried corn meal.
Flatbread.

Murph (02:31:40):
Uh, Mer.
Greg
Murph.
What is a Flapjack?
Oh, that's incorrect.
Oh, that's oh, oh, oh no, I know that Greg.
I
got it.
It's Johnny Cakes.
That's correct.
Johnny Cakes.
Greg is the winner.
That's right.
That, that was the onlyone that I came up with.
'cause I knew you guys would.
That's a pretty good one.
I knew one of you would get it.

(02:32:01):
So yeah, that's uh, all I got.
Uh, thanks for you.
Thanks to you guys for comingon and breathing life into
this dead format with me.
And uh, just tell the fine folks outthere one last time where they can find
you and anything you've gotten the works.
Alright.
Thank you all for listening.
Please remember to rate reviews,subscribe anywhere you get this podcast.
We have email weekly podcastmassacre@gmail.com or yeah.

(02:32:26):
Yeah.
Weekly podcast massacre@gmail.com.
Uh, both threads, Instagram andBlue Sky at Weekly Massacre.
Uh, Greg is G Anderson 19on letterbox, uh, hired
Underscored Goon 17 on letterbox.
Uh, I am Murin Turf on Twitch, Scott.
Yes, yes.
Uh, Murin Turf on Blue Sky and Letterbox.

(02:32:49):
Uh, thank you all for listening.
Yes.

Greg (02:32:52):
Beautiful.
Uh, yeah, and as well,we got cooking again.
Yeah.
Sorry.
This month it's all gonna be,uh, identity crisis April.
So if you want to hear about horrormovies that have people with multiple
personalities, split personalities,all that go stuff, uh, yeah.
Tune in for this month.
This is preloaded.
So none of those episodes have comeout, but I'm gonna go ahead and say

(02:33:14):
I loved your guys' episode on JohnCusack in Identity calling My Shot.
I think it's happening.
Oh, it's on the radar now.

Murph (02:33:25):
That's, uh, I think by this time, pretty prophetic at, yeah.
Yeah.

Greg (02:33:33):
I think you read Murf like an open book there.
Yeah.
Awesome.
So on behalf of Greg and Murph,I'm Chris and this has been
another episode of Dead Formats.
If you have any questions about theshow or if you have a dead format
topic that you'd like to hear me cover,or if you have any suggestions for
potential guests, please reach out.

(02:33:54):
You can email me at Dead Formatspod@gmail.com, or you can reach out to
me on Instagram at Dead Formats Pod.
Thanks for listening.

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