Episode 7: Diving Beyond Limits: Sidemount Techniques and Adaptive Diving with Steve Davis

Episode Transcript
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You are watching the Deadfoot Diver Podcast with Curt the Deadfoot Diver. 2 00:00:13,44.081632653 --> 00:00:15,474.081632653 Welcome to the Deadfoot Diver podcast. 3 00:00:15,514.081632653 --> 00:00:17,64.081632653 I'm Curt, the Deadfoot Diver. 4 00:00:17,414.081632653 --> 00:00:25,434.081632653 And here we are talking about everything diving, tech diving, and especially the advantages of diving and people with disabilities in diving. 5 00:00:26,34.080632653 --> 00:00:30,874.080632653 So I'm pleased to have today on my show, the owner of sidemountpros. 6 00:00:30,894.080632653 --> 00:00:36,234.082132653 com and the host of the podcast speaking sidemount. 7 00:00:36,704.082132653 --> 00:00:37,804.082132653 Steve Davis. 8 00:00:37,814.082132653 --> 00:00:39,274.082132653 How's it going, Steve? Yeah. 9 00:00:39,294.082132653 --> 00:00:39,614.082132653 Great. 10 00:00:39,624.082132653 --> 00:00:40,264.082132653 Thanks, Curt. 11 00:00:40,284.082132653 --> 00:00:41,64.082132653 Thanks for having me. 12 00:00:42,224.082132653 --> 00:00:43,554.082132653 Thank you for coming on. 13 00:00:43,604.082132653 --> 00:00:45,4.082132653 I really appreciate it. 14 00:00:45,914.082132653 --> 00:00:51,364.082132653 Why don't we talk about how you first got into diving? Yeah. 15 00:00:51,364.082132653 --> 00:00:55,114.082132653 It's a really long story, which I'll try and cut short for you. 16 00:00:55,124.082132653 --> 00:01:05,754.081632653 But my father took me to the beach every weekend in the summer in particular, and he was he's Australian, we're living in New Zealand, but he, it was just his thing. 17 00:01:05,754.081632653 --> 00:01:10,553.982132653 So from about the age of two, three years old, I was thrown into the ocean and kind of. 18 00:01:10,554.082132653 --> 00:01:12,994.082132653 Would paddle around and I think about four years old. 19 00:01:12,994.082132653 --> 00:01:17,714.082132653 I got a seat of what we call flippers back then in a plastic snorkel and mask. 20 00:01:17,714.082132653 --> 00:01:21,464.082132653 And it was the same time as Jacques Cousteau was on TV in the seventies. 21 00:01:21,474.082132653 --> 00:01:34,794.083132653 So I had this vision of myself being Albert Falco and blasting around, so I was having all this fun as a little kid and I remember having a snorkel kit and I couldn't even really swim without the flippers or fins. 22 00:01:34,854.083132653 --> 00:01:52,614.08263265 I started to learn to swim because I was snorkeling and then at the stepfather later on, who was a Navy diver and he offered me the opportunity to have a little try dive with him, but I wasn't allowed to do that until I was strong enough to carry a steel 72 cubic foot cylinder, a hundred meters along the beach. 23 00:01:52,659.18263265 --> 00:01:55,399.08263265 So that ended up being 14 years old. 24 00:01:55,399.08263265 --> 00:01:56,369.08263265 I begged him and begged him. 25 00:01:56,369.08263265 --> 00:01:59,749.08263265 And then finally, 14 years old, I was big enough, strong enough to do that. 26 00:01:59,749.08263265 --> 00:02:08,309.08213265 So 14, I carry the cylinder down the beach and we get into the water at Martin's Bay, just a beach and went out to 2 metres and dropped underwater. 27 00:02:08,309.08213265 --> 00:02:14,69.08263265 And I remember the first breaths, the first kind of feeling of going below snorkel depth. 28 00:02:14,614.08263265 --> 00:02:21,754.08263265 And wondering whether I should take a breath and then doing it and hearing the regulator fire and deliver some gas to me. 29 00:02:21,754.08263265 --> 00:02:23,794.08263265 It was just such an amazing feeling. 30 00:02:24,374.08263265 --> 00:02:29,274.08263265 It wasn't great visibility or anything, but just being underwater was just amazing for me. 31 00:02:29,714.08263265 --> 00:02:40,434.08263265 Unfortunately, I didn't get to dive with him a lot from that 14 year age group, so I was still doing a lot of freediving, gathering what we call kai moana here in New Zealand, food of the sea. 32 00:02:40,894.08263265 --> 00:02:43,214.08263265 We would get power, which is like abalone. 33 00:02:43,364.08263265 --> 00:02:44,364.08263265 I do that a lot. 34 00:02:44,454.08263265 --> 00:02:50,374.08263265 And and then when I joined the Navy, I got just a bit of time in my second year. 35 00:02:51,144.08263265 --> 00:02:53,194.08263265 And decided I would do an open water course. 36 00:02:53,194.08263265 --> 00:02:54,664.08263265 So I'm 19 years old now. 37 00:02:55,34.08263265 --> 00:02:55,984.08263265 1981. 38 00:02:56,24.08263265 --> 00:02:56,554.08263265 Oops, shit. 39 00:02:56,584.08263265 --> 00:02:58,404.08263265 This gave my, sorry, gave my age away there. 40 00:02:58,404.18263265 --> 00:03:00,294.08113265 But Keep that a secret sometimes. 41 00:03:00,294.08113265 --> 00:03:05,274.08063265 But yeah, so 19 years old, went and did an open water course and just, it was a breeze for me. 42 00:03:05,274.08163265 --> 00:03:06,834.08063265 I just was so comfortable in the water. 43 00:03:06,834.08063265 --> 00:03:07,704.08063265 I felt really good. 44 00:03:07,704.08163265 --> 00:03:09,924.08163265 I was very, didn't know how lucky I was. 45 00:03:09,924.08163265 --> 00:03:13,734.08163265 They took me out to the Poor Knights Islands, which is this beautiful marine reserve. 46 00:03:13,734.08163265 --> 00:03:14,118.98163265 It's beautiful. 47 00:03:14,199.08163265 --> 00:03:18,669.08163265 Off the coast of New Zealand and did my open water course there and fell in love with it. 48 00:03:18,799.08163265 --> 00:03:21,819.08113265 Yeah, it was a holiday diver for a long time after that. 49 00:03:21,819.08113265 --> 00:03:26,89.08163265 We'd just dive when I could, when I went away or a little bit through the summer years. 50 00:03:26,89.08163265 --> 00:03:33,99.08163265 And then later on, as most New Zealanders do, became a hunter or crayfish or lobster hunter, did a lot of that. 51 00:03:33,229.08163265 --> 00:03:40,554.08163265 And then eventually just got a little tired of, Looking under rocks all the time and wanted to enjoy diving a bit more. 52 00:03:40,554.08163265 --> 00:03:51,274.08113265 So I started then to progress through some of the levels that we all know in recreational diving became advanced open water that actually mainly came about because I lost my cert card. 53 00:03:51,274.08113265 --> 00:03:52,840.78113265 So I needed a new cert card. 54 00:03:52,840.78113265 --> 00:04:12,47.10013265 I thought I might as well do another course and Did the advanced open water course in Rarotonga in the Cook Islands in the Pacific and then yeah, then just follow the bouncing ball, did did the rescue diver course and then dive master thinking that would make me a better diver and and it did, and I learnt quite a lot, but it was a little bit later on then. 55 00:04:12,547.10013265 --> 00:04:15,527.10013265 that I decided that tech diving was going to be my thing. 56 00:04:15,527.10013265 --> 00:04:26,827.00013265 And I don't know if you want me to go into go straight into that story, or you want to ask me a little more, but that's where the sidemount and cave diving story starts and around 2012, 13. 57 00:04:26,827.10013265 --> 00:05:00,737.10113265 So Yeah what actually got you interested into diving? Sidemount diving compared to other forms of diving because a lot of people I know when I started diving again This year I first thought because a friend of mine actually mentioned it to me and I was like no I'm not doing any like serious crazy cave stuff yeah, it was for me, I was a dive master and the guy who took the dive master course for me was a, like a nascent tech diver himself, but very passionate about what he was getting into. 58 00:05:00,737.10113265 --> 00:05:07,177.10063265 And he just done some decompression courses previously, and he was doing some cave training and he had discovered sidemount diving. 59 00:05:07,177.10063265 --> 00:05:12,177.10113265 So he was the one who told me about it, Matt Shorthall, and he'd made himself his own little harness, which yeah. 60 00:05:12,502.10113265 --> 00:05:14,502.10113265 Was pretty cool and gave me a go with it. 61 00:05:14,652.10113265 --> 00:05:20,802.10113265 And so that made me jump on the internet and YouTube was pretty new back then, but there was some YouTube video. 62 00:05:21,232.10113265 --> 00:05:31,302.10213265 And that's when I found the Steve Bogarts video and Matt was a good diver and he was I was a pretty good dive master, but I didn't really understand tech diving at all. 63 00:05:31,857.10213265 --> 00:05:46,697.10413265 And it was only when I went on the internet and found Steve Bogart's Ponderosa skills demonstration video that I saw what world class diving looked like, and here's Steve perfect trim doing skills, hardly moving, super relaxed. 64 00:05:46,917.10413265 --> 00:05:54,537.10413265 In any orientation in the sidemount configuration helmet on lights, and it was just super, super compelling to me. 65 00:05:54,537.10413265 --> 00:06:09,507.10413265 So I did some more research, found Steve Martin, who at the time was starting to expound some of the benefits of sidemount diving, starting to talk about balance, trim, access to valves lots of flexibility around how you get in and out of the water and so on. 66 00:06:09,507.10413265 --> 00:06:12,527.10413265 And I thought this seems really interesting to me. 67 00:06:12,867.10413265 --> 00:06:14,377.10413265 And Steve was diving caves. 68 00:06:14,377.10413265 --> 00:06:17,737.10413265 He was actually trained, Steve Martin was actually trained by Steve Bogart. 69 00:06:18,317.10413265 --> 00:06:19,947.10413265 So there was a connection there as well. 70 00:06:20,497.10413265 --> 00:06:29,227.10413265 And so I thought, yeah, look, I'd really like the skillset and cave diving wasn't really of great interest to me, but side mount diving was. 71 00:06:29,587.10313265 --> 00:06:41,387.10313265 And I think when you come to that time when you're thinking, okay, I want to dive a little deeper, I want to dive longer, and I really would like to go into overhead environments, be it shipwrecks or caves. 72 00:06:41,997.10413265 --> 00:06:54,17.20213265 That's when you get hit this decision of do I want to go twin sets on my back or do I want to go sidemount and see the two Steve's had just made it so compelling for me that I thought, yeah, I'm just going to go and do this sidemount thing. 73 00:06:54,17.20213265 --> 00:06:56,617.20313265 So it wasn't really a necessarily a cave diving thing. 74 00:06:56,627.20313265 --> 00:06:59,467.20213265 It was more a gain the skill set that they had. 75 00:06:59,887.20313265 --> 00:07:01,827.20213265 I wanted to be still in the water like they were. 76 00:07:01,827.20213265 --> 00:07:03,777.20313265 I wanted to be able to be in any orientation. 77 00:07:04,372.20313265 --> 00:07:06,742.20313265 I wanted to be able to swim like they did. 78 00:07:06,752.20313265 --> 00:07:07,742.20313265 Dive like they did. 79 00:07:08,352.20313265 --> 00:07:09,112.20313265 It's pretty funny now. 80 00:07:09,112.20313265 --> 00:07:17,192.20213265 I remember talking to Patrick Woodman of Protech in Mexico, and he said, what you're asking there, Steve, is you want to play tennis and you want to be like Roger Federer. 81 00:07:17,662.20113265 --> 00:07:22,372.20313265 So it was I was definitely looking at world class and but I did aspire to that. 82 00:07:22,372.20313265 --> 00:07:24,672.20313265 And I spoke to Steve Bogarts about that afterwards. 83 00:07:24,672.20313265 --> 00:07:27,222.20313265 I have achieved a pretty strong level now. 84 00:07:27,642.20313265 --> 00:07:28,892.20313265 Am I the best in the world? No. 85 00:07:28,892.20313265 --> 00:07:29,172.20313265 Okay. 86 00:07:29,187.20313265 --> 00:07:33,147.20313265 But I'm a really solid and both instructor inside Mount Diver now. 87 00:07:33,197.20313265 --> 00:07:36,937.20313265 And after many years of practice and training and so on. 88 00:07:36,937.20313265 --> 00:07:42,417.20063265 And yeah, I have approached, the sort of standard that those guys are achieving and I think that was really my goal. 89 00:07:42,477.20063265 --> 00:07:44,937.20063265 I set out 2013 to achieve that. 90 00:07:45,117.20063265 --> 00:07:46,947.20063265 I didn't realize at the time how. 91 00:07:47,482.20063265 --> 00:07:57,72.20063265 If you go into a cave, what it does to you, you go in through that entrance and you just pass the sign and go into the dark zone and all of a sudden. 92 00:07:57,482.20063265 --> 00:07:58,852.20063265 You either love it or hate it. 93 00:07:58,872.20063265 --> 00:08:00,662.20063265 And for me, it was just love. 94 00:08:00,662.20063265 --> 00:08:02,942.20063265 I absolutely thought this is amazing. 95 00:08:02,942.20063265 --> 00:08:14,742.20113265 Not only the environment, not only the challenge of being there, but the planning and the skill sets and everything that you needed to do to be able to dive there was just amazing to me. 96 00:08:14,742.20113265 --> 00:08:17,622.20063265 And I love it to this day, both shipwreck diving and cave diving. 97 00:08:19,252.19963265 --> 00:08:26,482.19963265 That's awesome So when as I said, i'm actually going to be doing my sidemount certification in may. 98 00:08:27,102.19963265 --> 00:08:34,242.19963265 Main reason that I started looking at it was I literally because of the issues I have with my legs. 99 00:08:34,892.19963265 --> 00:08:43,262.19963265 My one, I have no movement below the knee on my left one and my right leg is pretty pinned and plated heavily as well. 100 00:08:43,972.19963265 --> 00:08:52,352.19963265 So for me getting into and all the I did up here in the summer was all shore diving and it's all rock. 101 00:08:52,922.19963265 --> 00:09:00,787.19963265 So I would literally, I'd walk like four or five feet out in the water, usually trip down and then just drag myself out. 102 00:09:01,527.19963265 --> 00:09:06,297.19913265 So I was all these guys I was diving with. 103 00:09:06,297.19913265 --> 00:09:12,797.19963265 I had about like probably at least 10 guys are like, you need to look at, seriously look at doing sidemount. 104 00:09:13,797.19963265 --> 00:09:21,127.19963265 So what advantages are there for a disabled diver with sidemount? Yeah. 105 00:09:21,127.19963265 --> 00:09:25,607.19963265 You have to start with saying that I don't have a lot of experience working with disabled divers. 106 00:09:25,607.19963265 --> 00:09:27,347.19813265 So I'm joining the dots here. 107 00:09:27,347.19813265 --> 00:09:31,537.19813265 And maybe you can help me with that as I talk through what I think the advantages might be. 108 00:09:31,537.19913265 --> 00:09:40,737.19813265 And then we can look at your context and perhaps to and fro a bit on it, because I don't want to go off and claim to be some sort of disabled diver expert, but I am an expert in sidemount. 109 00:09:40,757.19813265 --> 00:09:42,257.09813265 So let's start with that. 110 00:09:43,222.09813265 --> 00:09:51,612.09813265 One of the main benefits of sidemount, apart from, redundancy and extra gas and having two cylinders is that you manage the two cylinders individually. 111 00:09:52,132.09813265 --> 00:09:59,62.09913265 So by doing that, it gives you the opportunity to have a lot of flexibility about the way that you get in and out of the water in particular. 112 00:09:59,242.09713265 --> 00:10:10,212.09813265 Once you're in the water, it's a bit of a push because Depending on the environment, if you're diving open water in particular, having a twin set on your back in open water isn't any big deal because the water's carrying your weight, that's the great benefit. 113 00:10:10,632.09813265 --> 00:10:12,202.09813265 And and it's the same in sidemount. 114 00:10:12,232.09713265 --> 00:10:17,182.09713265 I would argue sidemount's a little better in the water, that's a, that's an argument that you don't necessarily win. 115 00:10:17,182.09713265 --> 00:10:18,372.09763265 It just depends on the diver. 116 00:10:18,742.09763265 --> 00:10:21,122.09763265 But getting in the water is vastly different. 117 00:10:21,512.09763265 --> 00:10:28,77.09763265 And with a twin set, you pretty much have to put it on and walk it to the water's edge, or have someone do that for you. 118 00:10:28,527.09763265 --> 00:10:38,277.09763265 And that might be a way, if you want to be a twin set diver, get someone else to carry it into the water, inflate the BCD, and then put it on in the water, and maybe that would be okay for you. 119 00:10:38,637.09763265 --> 00:10:45,947.09763265 But if you want to manage your own equipment as a disabled diver, I think then you'd have to say twin sets are out of the question, because they're really heavy. 120 00:10:46,312.09763265 --> 00:10:48,82.09763265 And it's going to cause you some issues. 121 00:10:48,92.09763265 --> 00:10:53,562.09763265 So the beauty of the two individual cylinders is that you can manage them one at a time. 122 00:10:53,562.09763265 --> 00:10:54,992.09663265 So you could get one to the water. 123 00:10:55,322.09763265 --> 00:11:04,106.99763265 If you're diving with a buddy, you could hand that to that person grab the other one, walk that and hand it to the person to get your fins on and then have them hand one at a time. 124 00:11:04,517.09763265 --> 00:11:12,287.09763265 To you so that you can don them and to be brutally honest, it's not so different for an able diver because that's exactly the way that I would do it. 125 00:11:12,427.09763265 --> 00:11:15,207.09763265 And the reason I would do it that way is because it's easy. 126 00:11:15,767.09663265 --> 00:11:20,757.09763265 Yeah, why would I want to clip these cylinders on and carry them into the water as a side mount diver when. 127 00:11:21,487.09763265 --> 00:11:22,667.09763265 I might as well dive back mount. 128 00:11:22,797.09763265 --> 00:11:27,307.09763265 So I do see a lot of sidemount divers doing that, walking around with their cylinders clipped onto them and so on. 129 00:11:27,357.09763265 --> 00:11:32,677.09663265 And look, it's okay if that's the way they want to do it, fine, but there are easier ways of managing your equipment. 130 00:11:33,267.09663265 --> 00:12:01,867.09863265 For cave diving or shore diving, typically we're going, you're in a cenote, you're in a cave, for instance you walk one cylinder down walk back up, take the other cylinder down, jump in the water, and Pull one and put it on, pull the other one, put it on, so it's super easy but I would say I would think as a disabled person, you're going to have a buddy, no matter what, and so you work as a team, so your buddy would assist you into the water, your buddy would assist you with holding your cylinders while you get yourself set. 131 00:12:02,277.09963265 --> 00:12:06,327.09963265 And then as you want to put one on, you put the first one on, then they hand you the second one. 132 00:12:06,607.09963265 --> 00:12:08,707.09963265 And then you would maybe help them as well. 133 00:12:08,717.09963265 --> 00:12:11,547.10013265 Hold their cylinders while they get ready, put it, give them one and the other. 134 00:12:11,777.10013265 --> 00:12:15,497.09913265 And I don't see it being too much different than an able diver. 135 00:12:16,47.09913265 --> 00:12:25,287.09963265 The only thing I would say is if you've got waves or, all of a sudden, that might not be such a good day to go diving if you have disabilities, because it gets, it gets commensurately harder. 136 00:12:26,42.09963265 --> 00:12:30,62.09963265 I don't know how that sounds to you, but that's certainly the process that I would go through. 137 00:12:31,92.09963265 --> 00:12:32,262.09963265 Yeah no, exactly. 138 00:12:32,262.09963265 --> 00:12:41,882.09863265 That's the whole reason I'm looking at is to be able to get in at the water easy, not look like a clumsy fool when I do one of my first plants. 139 00:12:42,382.09963265 --> 00:12:43,232.09963265 Yeah, got it, yeah. 140 00:12:43,622.09963265 --> 00:12:49,852.09863265 One other thing that you might consider, depending on the duration of the dive, is you don't have to dive big cylinders. 141 00:12:50,152.09963265 --> 00:12:56,372.10163265 For instance, I dive 50 cubic feet, you might call them up there, there's 7 litre steel cylinders quite often. 142 00:12:56,797.10163265 --> 00:13:24,747.00163265 And, the 2, I work in metrics, so hopefully that works, but the 2 7 litre cylinders give you 14 litres of gas times, 200, 2800 litres of gas, which is more than a steel 12, more than an LE80, and so you, and plus you've got redundancy, so now you've got Lighter cylinders, which are easier to handle out of the water, they only weigh, from memory, 12 kilos, I think, each, compared to nearly 20 for a steel 12. 143 00:13:25,347.00063265 --> 00:13:26,537.00063265 That's another option. 144 00:13:26,777.00063265 --> 00:13:30,497.00063265 You could use LE40s or their 5. 145 00:13:30,497.10063265 --> 00:13:31,427.00063265 87 litres, I think, from memory. 146 00:13:31,646.99963265 --> 00:13:37,936.99963265 You can dive these smaller cylinders in sidemount that are really easy to manage out of the water and easy in the water. 147 00:13:38,136.99963265 --> 00:13:40,306.99963265 Still dive sidemount, still have all of the benefits. 148 00:13:40,541.99963265 --> 00:13:49,781.99963265 But a little smaller cylinders and a little less gas, and that might be a great solution for, relatively shallow dive, less than 30 meters for less than an hour. 149 00:13:50,511.99863265 --> 00:13:56,491.99863265 I wish actually a lot of the dives I do that would fit perfectly actually and would be a lot easier. 150 00:13:58,361.99863265 --> 00:14:12,596.99863265 So when you're, if you're switching tanks on sidemount, how difficult is it? Do you have to make a lot of adjustments to go from using one size of tank to another? A little bit. 151 00:14:12,606.99863265 --> 00:14:17,426.99863265 So it depends on the way, the method by which you attach the cylinder clip at the bottom. 152 00:14:18,226.99863265 --> 00:14:20,806.99863265 There is a thing called a cam band and I don't use them. 153 00:14:21,306.99863265 --> 00:14:29,796.99763265 So I don't know 100%, but I'm assuming you just tighten the cam band to the size of cylinder and that might enable you to use the same bands for large or small. 154 00:14:30,66.99863265 --> 00:14:32,416.99863265 jubilee clips. 155 00:14:32,936.99863265 --> 00:14:57,804.44863265 For my clips, and so I have small ones for my small cylinders, large ones for my large cylinders, they cost 4 each, so there's no big deal in having a set of them, so I've got them set up all of the time sitting behind me in my dive locker here, and yeah, so they're just set up ready to go, so I've got 40 cubic foot, 50 cubic foot, so that's the 7 litre, 12 liter and 11 liter, which is LE80, all ready to go. 156 00:14:58,54.44863265 --> 00:15:00,804.44863265 I can grab any cylinder I want at any time and go dive it. 157 00:15:01,134.44863265 --> 00:15:07,544.44863265 There is a little bit of differences between the aluminium or aluminium cylinders and steels in terms of where you position the clip. 158 00:15:07,974.44763265 --> 00:15:10,254.44763265 And that's just to make the cylinders hold correctly. 159 00:15:10,269.44763265 --> 00:15:13,399.44763265 But apart from that it's pretty much identical. 160 00:15:13,409.44763265 --> 00:15:16,59.44763265 And so everything else, I don't have to change my harness for it. 161 00:15:16,389.44763265 --> 00:15:19,459.44763265 Sometimes I'll loosen or tighten the loop bungee at the top a little bit. 162 00:15:19,779.44763265 --> 00:15:22,769.44763265 Steels need a little bit more tension than aluminum or aluminum do. 163 00:15:23,159.44763265 --> 00:15:25,399.44763265 But apart from that it's super easy. 164 00:15:25,449.44763265 --> 00:15:27,169.44763265 If you know how, I'll say that. 165 00:15:27,169.44763265 --> 00:15:28,359.44763265 I see a lot of people getting that. 166 00:15:28,359.44763265 --> 00:15:32,929.44663265 Not wrong, but just things that could be better because they don't understand what the cylinders are doing. 167 00:15:33,309.44763265 --> 00:15:40,89.44763265 Aluminum are a lot more buoyant in saltwater in particular, not such a big deal in freshwater. 168 00:15:40,549.44763265 --> 00:15:42,689.44763265 So it depends on the environment. 169 00:15:42,819.44763265 --> 00:15:47,699.44763265 It depends on whether you're wearing dry suit, wet suit, how thick your undergarments are, how buoyant you're going to be. 170 00:15:48,159.44663265 --> 00:15:52,239.44563265 I'm a strong believer, saltwater and thick undergarments and a dry suit. 171 00:15:52,269.44663265 --> 00:15:56,429.44563265 You pretty much want to dive steel cylinders because they add a bit of weight to your system. 172 00:15:56,829.44663265 --> 00:16:02,119.44663265 You're diving freshwater, wetsuit, tropics, then aluminum are great and they have a lot of benefits. 173 00:16:02,129.44663265 --> 00:16:05,619.44663265 You've got to choose your weapon as I call it, according to your environment. 174 00:16:07,579.44663265 --> 00:16:08,319.44663265 That's awesome. 175 00:16:08,569.44663265 --> 00:16:28,779.44463265 What about now the other thing when I was down diving in Jamaica recently, I ran into a couple of tech divers and they were telling me that when they originally did their certification that their instructor spent like literally hours and hours helping them set up their their harness and stuff. 176 00:16:30,419.44363265 --> 00:16:31,409.44463265 This is for sidemount. 177 00:16:32,259.44463265 --> 00:16:32,859.44463265 Yes. 178 00:16:33,4.44463265 --> 00:16:59,609.4446327 Yeah it shouldn't take hours and hours, but for instance, on a course with me, particularly with the X Deep harnesses, which are very quick to set up and the harness that I favor it takes probably less than half an hour to get a harness set up and that's basically from out of the box, taking off a few bits and pieces that I don't like to use, and then Putting it on the diver and it is important that the fit is as close as possible to perfect out of the box. 179 00:16:59,609.4446327 --> 00:17:08,359.4446327 So we spend a bit of time setting that up and then we go for a dive and you might look at it and go, oh, yeah, I need to make an adjustment here or there. 180 00:17:08,449.4446327 --> 00:17:09,809.4446327 I need to bring the waist strap down. 181 00:17:09,809.4446327 --> 00:17:11,129.4441327 I need to tighten the shoulder strap. 182 00:17:11,129.4441327 --> 00:17:13,469.4446327 I need to loosen or tighten the crotch strap. 183 00:17:13,469.5446327 --> 00:17:15,89.4446327 I need to look at the bungees. 184 00:17:15,279.4446327 --> 00:17:18,149.4446327 So there'll be a bunch of things that you're looking at after that dive. 185 00:17:19,19.4446327 --> 00:17:21,249.4446327 to iterate towards getting it better and better. 186 00:17:21,519.4446327 --> 00:17:25,889.4446327 But certainly, I wouldn't say hours and hours, but I would say, yeah, it's worth spending a bit of time. 187 00:17:26,199.4446327 --> 00:17:29,859.4436327 And what I do on my courses is we'll run three workshops. 188 00:17:29,899.4446327 --> 00:17:38,549.4446327 We run an equipment workshop where we fit the harness, we set up the side mount regulator set, and we set up the cylinders with the clips. 189 00:17:38,819.4446327 --> 00:17:41,59.4446327 And all of those things are really important. 190 00:17:41,99.4446327 --> 00:17:42,109.4446327 They all work together. 191 00:17:42,629.4446327 --> 00:17:45,969.4446327 And then you'll put it in the water go and do your first dives. 192 00:17:45,999.4446327 --> 00:17:49,809.4446327 I spend a lot of time working on donning and doffing of side mount cylinders. 193 00:17:49,809.4446327 --> 00:17:52,799.4446327 There's a very defined procedure that I go through. 194 00:17:52,949.4446327 --> 00:17:58,309.4446327 And I'm fairly strict on that only because by doing it the same way every time you build muscle memory. 195 00:17:58,689.4446327 --> 00:18:01,309.4446327 So then it becomes very slick and fast. 196 00:18:01,309.4446327 --> 00:18:08,739.4446327 If you always do it the same way, if you find yourself like messing around and doing things out of order or whatever, you find that you never really develop that muscle memory. 197 00:18:08,739.4446327 --> 00:18:11,269.4446327 And then you're slow and ineffective. 198 00:18:11,319.4446327 --> 00:18:12,479.4446327 Spend a lot of time on that. 199 00:18:12,709.4436327 --> 00:18:14,779.4446327 We spend a bit of time on regulator switching. 200 00:18:15,139.4446327 --> 00:18:17,919.4446327 Gas pressure checking, just the base sidebound skills. 201 00:18:17,929.4446327 --> 00:18:26,289.4446327 A lot of time on tech diver posture, on the correct way to be in trim, manage your buoyancy and your trim imbalance. 202 00:18:26,519.4446327 --> 00:18:28,979.4446327 And then we just go for like a heap of swimming. 203 00:18:28,989.4446327 --> 00:18:34,239.4436327 So it's the first day of my courses, maybe the first half day of equipment workshops and set up. 204 00:18:34,674.4446327 --> 00:18:52,284.4436327 And then we're in the water for a half day, one to two hour dive minimum, and maybe two dives, if we can fit it in, to just feel sidemount and go around and, experience what it feels like and find your trim and your balance and we're doing weighting checks, all those sort of things in there as well. 205 00:18:52,614.4446327 --> 00:18:55,944.4446327 Then we're coming out of the water debriefing before we go in the next day. 206 00:18:56,264.4446327 --> 00:19:02,824.4446327 And if they're stable, which is what we're looking for, you've got to be able to be stable and still in the water, then we'll start to layer skills on top. 207 00:19:03,194.4446327 --> 00:19:05,134.4446327 It depends who you're learning from as well. 208 00:19:05,154.4446327 --> 00:19:12,784.4446327 I do favor when you choose your instructor, find someone who either dive sidemount a lot or even better dives it all the time. 209 00:19:13,14.4456327 --> 00:19:13,954.4456327 And because. 210 00:19:14,269.4456327 --> 00:19:24,239.4446327 It is it's one of those things where, if you pay at lip service, unless you're one of these divers who dives every day and dives twin set one day, side mount another rebreather another day, then you can probably pull it off. 211 00:19:24,269.4456327 --> 00:19:30,449.4446327 But the vast majority of us, you really need some time to build the skills, both as a diver and an instructor. 212 00:19:32,199.4456327 --> 00:19:33,409.4456327 Yeah, no, that's true. 213 00:19:33,439.4456327 --> 00:19:37,909.4456327 I actually lucked out because I actually have an adaptive instructor. 214 00:19:38,239.4456327 --> 00:19:42,949.4456327 Um, that's going to be I'm going to be helping him it out to be buddy. 215 00:19:42,979.4456327 --> 00:19:53,539.4456327 going to train me inside mount, which I'm really excited about because having him as an instructor opens up a lot of more doors for me as far as diving goes and stuff that. 216 00:19:54,44.4456327 --> 00:19:58,514.4456327 I would never have thought of doing, including cave diving and stuff like that. 217 00:19:58,764.4456327 --> 00:19:58,994.4456327 Yeah. 218 00:19:58,994.4456327 --> 00:19:59,274.4456327 Yeah. 219 00:19:59,504.4456327 --> 00:19:59,784.4456327 Yeah. 220 00:20:00,84.4456327 --> 00:20:00,314.4456327 Yeah. 221 00:20:00,314.4456327 --> 00:20:08,914.4956327 And I think that's the part that I'm missing, right? Is this understanding of what disabled people need? And, obviously you can learn that and I'm drawing lots of assumptions. 222 00:20:08,964.4956327 --> 00:20:11,284.4946327 Yeah, that will, that'll be a huge benefit to you. 223 00:20:11,284.4946327 --> 00:20:15,869.4956327 And look, the other thing too is, You've got to remember when you finish your course, you're not the finished product. 224 00:20:16,79.4956327 --> 00:20:27,459.4946327 I say this to people, I said it on a podcast episode yesterday, a lot of, sometimes people get frustrated with how it takes time to bed in, you don't instantly necessarily become Steve Bogarts on the first day or the second day. 225 00:20:27,459.4956327 --> 00:20:32,779.4961327 And I promise you there is not one great sidemount or cave diver out there that was minted yesterday. 226 00:20:33,279.4961327 --> 00:20:35,159.4961327 It takes time for all of us. 227 00:20:35,169.4961327 --> 00:20:39,719.4961327 For me, I did my course in 2013, 11 years ago now, and I've dived. 228 00:20:40,34.4961327 --> 00:20:49,144.4961327 One twin set dive and maybe half a dozen backmount single cylinder dives in the 11 years since then. 229 00:20:49,144.4961327 --> 00:20:53,74.4961327 So every single dive I've done, several hundred per year has been sidemount. 230 00:20:53,464.4961327 --> 00:20:57,694.4951327 That's that's the sort of effort that it takes sometimes to build a world class skillset. 231 00:20:57,854.4961327 --> 00:21:05,774.4961327 Yeah, what about now you talked about using them in open water, getting on and off a boat. 232 00:21:05,844.4961327 --> 00:21:06,904.4961327 How does that. 233 00:21:07,564.4961327 --> 00:21:12,524.4961327 Affected as well, because I'm hoping to use them a lot on dive charters up here. 234 00:21:13,684.4961327 --> 00:21:14,694.3961327 it depends on the boat. 235 00:21:14,694.4961327 --> 00:21:18,64.4961327 There's when you look at dive boats, there's classically two types of boat. 236 00:21:18,104.4961327 --> 00:21:20,334.4961327 There's the rigid hull inflatables. 237 00:21:20,609.4961327 --> 00:21:41,579.4961327 Which are fantastic for sidemount, because all you have to do, normally your cylinders are in a rack in front of you, you sit on one of the pontoons, you grab one, put it on the left side, put that on, that gives you gas to breathe and your BCD, grab the other one, put that on the right side, clip it on, put that on, and now you've got your dry suit inflator and your backup or your other regulator, and you're good to go. 238 00:21:42,69.4961327 --> 00:21:43,909.4961327 So ribs are really easy. 239 00:21:44,809.4961327 --> 00:21:49,569.4961327 Charter boats, what I would recommend based on the water conditions. 240 00:21:49,749.4961327 --> 00:22:00,849.4961327 So obviously if there's a lot of swell or waves or current, you can't easily do this, but I would highly recommend that you don your cylinders in the water. 241 00:22:01,309.4961327 --> 00:22:10,759.4961327 So you effectively get your cylinders to the, to where the entry point is, and you can have the boat crew support you with this, then jump in the water. 242 00:22:10,759.5961327 --> 00:22:27,439.5961327 Obviously you inflate your BCD, you make, you come back to the boat and then have them hand you the left cylinder, you put the left cylinder on, now you've got gas and a BCD, then they hand you the right cylinder, you put the right cylinder on, now you've got your dry suit and your other regulator, as I explained before, and you're good to go. 243 00:22:28,74.5961327 --> 00:22:32,334.5961327 And in that way all you've got to become it's exactly the same donning procedure. 244 00:22:32,334.5961327 --> 00:22:33,884.5961327 So you're not doing anything different. 245 00:22:34,84.5961327 --> 00:22:37,384.5951327 The only thing now is that you're floating on the surface while you do that. 246 00:22:37,724.5961327 --> 00:22:48,274.5966327 And the skill set there is really just to become comfortable floating without kicking around too much and just accept the cylinder and as I said, the only thing you've really got to make sure is that you've inflated your BCD. 247 00:22:48,274.5966327 --> 00:22:49,204.5966327 So you've got enough yeah. 248 00:22:49,309.5966327 --> 00:22:51,869.5966327 Buoyancy when you collect the cylinder from someone. 249 00:22:52,429.5966327 --> 00:22:56,719.5966327 So that would be my, and then when you come out of the water, it's just the reverse of that. 250 00:22:56,739.5966327 --> 00:23:08,699.5946327 You prepare your right cylinder before you get back to the boat give the boat crew a yell, take your right cylinder off, give it to them, then take your left cylinder off, give it to them, and then you can climb out of the water, be it yourself or be it assisted. 251 00:23:09,329.5956327 --> 00:23:13,319.5956327 Some of the charter boats, in fact, the charter boat I dive most here has a dive lift as well. 252 00:23:13,519.5956327 --> 00:23:18,259.5956327 So it's got a hydraulic diver lift, which would be ideal for your situation as well. 253 00:23:18,689.5956327 --> 00:23:21,379.5956327 So if you're fortunate enough to have that, fantastic. 254 00:23:21,399.5946327 --> 00:23:25,669.5956327 But if not, then certainly you don't want to be getting in or out of the water with cylinders on. 255 00:23:26,49.5956327 --> 00:23:35,289.5966327 Now, there are times when Yeah, let's say now you do have some current or or some swell and you've got conditions to deal with. 256 00:23:35,669.5966327 --> 00:23:54,269.4956327 It is possible to get to the entrance and put you just one cylinder on and and then you can get in the water with gas and BCD and then you can either hold the other some of the jump in or have that passed to you, but it does become a little bit more of a a little bit more of a issue there. 257 00:23:54,349.4956327 --> 00:23:57,19.4956327 If if you're disabled and you've got conditions to deal with. 258 00:23:57,19.4956327 --> 00:24:05,919.4956327 So again, you might be choosing the particular day and say, this is either a day for me, or it's not a day for me based on the conditions. 259 00:24:06,319.4956327 --> 00:24:09,709.4946327 The other thing again, if you're using smaller cylinders, everything gets easier. 260 00:24:09,759.4956327 --> 00:24:14,619.4456327 One thing I would highly recommend back to what I said before is, consider these smaller cylinders. 261 00:24:14,619.4456327 --> 00:24:20,889.4946327 7 litre steels, I think would be a great choice if there's enough gas there for you. 262 00:24:22,219.4956327 --> 00:24:26,719.4946327 yeah, that definitely, I think would help for sure Hi, everyone. 263 00:24:26,719.4946327 --> 00:24:28,779.4946327 Thanks for tuning in to the Deadfoot Diver. 264 00:24:29,149.4946327 --> 00:24:30,239.4946327 Subscribe and share. 265 00:24:30,299.4946327 --> 00:24:31,989.4946327 Your support means the world to me. 266 00:24:32,529.4946327 --> 00:24:36,789.4946327 If you'd like to contribute directly, you can do so at the link in the description at buymeacoffee. 267 00:24:37,429.4946327 --> 00:24:51,249.4946327 com slash deadfoot diver, every donation helps me work towards earning my Adaptive Dive Buddy certification, travel costs to help me assist other adaptive divers and covering further training and equipment costs. 268 00:24:51,539.4946327 --> 00:24:54,319.4946327 Bringing you on even more exciting adventures. 269 00:24:55,729.4946327 --> 00:25:04,759.4941327 Don't forget to check out my guest links in the description and remember grab an adventure and live and don't ever let a disability. 270 00:25:04,759.4941327 --> 00:25:05,469.4936327 Keep you down. 271 00:25:05,852.4946327 --> 00:25:07,622.4951327 now you use X-Deep. 272 00:25:08,17.4951327 --> 00:25:16,682.4951327 For your sidemount harnesses, right? What which model do you prefer out of them? Yeah, that's a really cool question. 273 00:25:16,682.4951327 --> 00:25:21,462.4951327 So I started with the XD Classic Stealth Classic back in 2013. 274 00:25:21,472.4951327 --> 00:25:23,182.4951327 It was all that was available at the time. 275 00:25:23,492.4951327 --> 00:25:29,82.4941327 And I dived all the way to OpenCircuit TriMix on that, even though it's not ideally suited for that. 276 00:25:29,867.4951327 --> 00:25:37,327.4951327 And made lots of mods over the time, but as soon as they became available, I got one of the, certainly I had the first ones here in New Zealand. 277 00:25:37,327.4951327 --> 00:25:39,327.4446327 I got the Stealth 2. 278 00:25:39,327.4446327 --> 00:25:48,67.4941327 0 tech harness and I dived that all the way through my cave training and also through instructing in Gozo in Malta. 279 00:25:49,227.4941327 --> 00:25:51,207.4941327 and you've used it for many years. 280 00:25:51,237.4941327 --> 00:25:54,557.3941327 A little bit later on, I got myself a Stealth 2. 281 00:25:54,557.4941327 --> 00:25:58,67.4941327 0 REC or the Recreational Harness. 282 00:25:58,367.4931327 --> 00:26:03,377.4921327 The name REC there is a version that has plastic clips, which are really easy to adjust. 283 00:26:03,657.4931327 --> 00:26:08,397.4931327 I don't recommend them unless you're in a shop where you want to be able to fit people really quickly. 284 00:26:08,737.4931327 --> 00:26:10,807.4931327 There's just a failure point there and you don't need it. 285 00:26:11,717.4931327 --> 00:26:23,27.4921327 If you're disabled in the shoulders, however, there's a good point where you might want to use that if you have trouble with your arms or shoulders or getting into the harness, then that might be a time when you might want to use those, but with the buckles. 286 00:26:23,187.4931327 --> 00:26:24,717.4931327 But other than that, I would avoid them. 287 00:26:25,357.4931327 --> 00:26:27,717.4931327 And so I use the REC mainly because I'm not a big guy. 288 00:26:27,727.4921327 --> 00:26:29,747.4921327 So I'm 70 kilos. 289 00:26:30,2.4931327 --> 00:26:31,862.4931327 167 centimeters. 290 00:26:31,862.4931327 --> 00:26:32,732.4931327 So not a big guy. 291 00:26:32,742.4931327 --> 00:26:35,522.4931327 So I don't need firstly, I don't need the lift. 292 00:26:35,572.4931327 --> 00:26:37,942.4931327 And there's 19 kilos of lift in the tech. 293 00:26:37,942.4931327 --> 00:26:42,62.4941327 I think there's 13 in the REC and, if you weight yourself correctly, i. 294 00:26:42,62.4941327 --> 00:26:42,132.4941327 e. 295 00:26:42,132.4941327 --> 00:26:55,252.4941327 you're not overweighted, you don't need a massive amount of lift, especially diving two cylinders as you dive three and four, let's say your stage cave diving, or you're doing decompression diving where you're carrying decompression cylinders. 296 00:26:55,637.4941327 --> 00:27:01,547.4941327 Each of those will have a fair bit of gas in them, and there's a bit of gas weight until you consume that, and you might need to compensate for that. 297 00:27:01,867.4941327 --> 00:27:12,7.4941327 But again, 13 kilos is not a small amount of lift, so I've never had any trouble with that, and I just find the recreational version, it's just a smaller wing, the harness itself, it's identical. 298 00:27:12,317.4941327 --> 00:27:17,747.4951327 The smaller wing just wraps around me a little better and fits me better, so I tend to dive that most of the time now. 299 00:27:18,52.4951327 --> 00:27:24,622.4951327 But I do in my locker here have, three or four tech harnesses as well that I might pull off the shelf every now and again. 300 00:27:25,162.4951327 --> 00:27:27,102.4956327 But yeah, typically for me, it's the REC. 301 00:27:27,332.4956327 --> 00:27:32,752.4956327 So if you're making that decision, tech or REC, I think that the decision can be based on your stature. 302 00:27:33,147.4956327 --> 00:27:34,797.4956327 If you're a big guy, grab the bigger one. 303 00:27:35,177.4956327 --> 00:27:38,47.4956327 If you're a little smaller, you can consider the wreck. 304 00:27:38,67.4956327 --> 00:27:44,767.4956327 And then the other question is, how many cylinders are you carrying? If you're carrying two, you don't have a lot of gas weight to compensate. 305 00:27:44,787.4946327 --> 00:27:49,887.4946327 You've already got your dry suit that's compensating for changes in pressure as you go down. 306 00:27:49,957.4946327 --> 00:27:50,177.4946327 I. 307 00:27:50,177.4956327 --> 00:27:50,247.4956327 e. 308 00:27:50,257.4956327 --> 00:27:52,317.4956327 you're putting a little bit more gas in as you go deeper. 309 00:27:52,317.4956327 --> 00:27:54,667.4956327 So that volume shouldn't change too much. 310 00:27:55,297.4956327 --> 00:27:59,767.4956327 So it's really gas weight that you are looking at compensating for and as you consume it. 311 00:27:59,817.4956327 --> 00:28:01,77.4956327 Yeah, I hope that helps. 312 00:28:02,367.4956327 --> 00:28:02,757.4956327 Cool. 313 00:28:02,757.4956327 --> 00:28:03,167.4956327 Yeah. 314 00:28:03,207.4956327 --> 00:28:04,537.4956327 No, definitely. 315 00:28:04,627.4956327 --> 00:28:07,587.4956327 Yeah, I'm really looking forward to getting trained in sidemount. 316 00:28:07,647.4946327 --> 00:28:07,932.3956327 I definitely am. 317 00:28:08,222.4956327 --> 00:28:12,682.4956327 It's going to open a world of possibilities for me and make things a lot easier. 318 00:28:12,682.4956327 --> 00:28:14,652.4956327 Just getting in the water for sure. 319 00:28:15,557.4956327 --> 00:28:24,902.4921327 Yeah, So what tell me about what type of training you guys offer when, cause you do a lot of sidemount training and other stuff. 320 00:28:24,902.4921327 --> 00:28:36,147.4931327 So what mainly do you concentrate on? I, yeah, I 100% teach side mount diving and I'm probably an anomaly there and it does hold me back every now and again. 321 00:28:36,147.4931327 --> 00:28:43,887.4931327 I kinda I'd done a lot of dives before I became an instructor, so I only became an instructor in 2015 and. 322 00:28:44,267.4931327 --> 00:28:54,657.4931327 I taught some open water courses and enjoyed those, but I already in my mind had decided that I wanted to be a sidemount diving specialist. 323 00:28:55,157.4921327 --> 00:29:02,997.459466 So I trained with Tom Steiner some more in particular on sidemount and tech sidemount instructor and really went down that route. 324 00:29:03,47.459466 --> 00:29:12,117.459466 Since then, when I set up sidemount pros in late 2015, I really decided that was going to be our thing that was going to be, we just teach sidemount. 325 00:29:12,117.459466 --> 00:29:13,267.459466 We don't teach anything else. 326 00:29:13,277.458466 --> 00:29:15,97.459466 So I teach two courses. 327 00:29:15,97.459466 --> 00:29:19,927.458466 I do intro every now and again, although I prefer not to, it's like you're either going to do it or you're not. 328 00:29:20,237.458466 --> 00:29:24,887.458466 So I really teach a fundamental sidemount course, which is minimum four days. 329 00:29:25,632.458466 --> 00:29:29,562.458466 And we focus on the fundamentals of sidemount diving. 330 00:29:29,562.458466 --> 00:29:35,532.457466 So the equipment workshops, we do the base sidemount skills, and then we do what I call the sidemount emergency drills. 331 00:29:35,782.458466 --> 00:29:39,802.458466 So valve drills, regulator free flows, bungee breakage, and so on. 332 00:29:40,222.457466 --> 00:29:50,962.457466 And at the end, gas sharing, and then at the end of that that you should come out of that pretty competent sidemount diver able to manage your own equipment, manage yourself in the water independently of anyone else. 333 00:29:51,242.457466 --> 00:29:58,187.357966 And then, what I recommend to people is go away and find a sidemount buddy or a back mount buddy for that matter, and go and do a heap of dives and just be yourself. 334 00:29:58,187.457966 --> 00:30:00,957.457966 Beat it all in practice is what it takes. 335 00:30:00,977.457966 --> 00:30:04,757.457966 And the better divers that you can dive with is a better thing as well. 336 00:30:05,147.457966 --> 00:30:13,477.457466 So I've always tried to dive with divers of a high standard, not that I'm exclusive and won't dive with pretty much anyone who's a decent person and safe. 337 00:30:13,517.457466 --> 00:30:18,307.456466 But if you can get, find some really competent buddies to dive with, you learn a lot from doing that. 338 00:30:19,42.456466 --> 00:30:32,462.456466 Then we also offer a tech sidemount course, and so that's for those people who want to go on to decompression training, or they want to go and do stage cave diving or using stages to extend their distance and range inside a cave or overhead. 339 00:30:32,842.456466 --> 00:30:36,702.456466 And that's really learning how to manage the third and fourth cylinders. 340 00:30:36,952.455466 --> 00:30:41,322.455466 I also focus for those who are going to decompression training on decompression ascents. 341 00:30:41,897.455466 --> 00:30:49,47.455466 In particular, so how to manage an ascent properly and also a little bit, a lot more on dive planning and a lot more on propulsion. 342 00:30:49,427.455466 --> 00:30:57,117.455466 So the back kick, for instance, we cover that in the fundamentals course, but it's not necessary that you absolutely master it. 343 00:30:57,497.454466 --> 00:30:59,167.454466 But on the tech course, it is important. 344 00:30:59,197.453466 --> 00:31:01,977.454466 You can't really turn up for cave training without a back kick. 345 00:31:02,317.454466 --> 00:31:06,417.454466 And it's very helpful if you're decompression diving as well to be able to back kick. 346 00:31:06,687.454466 --> 00:31:10,67.454466 Now, I don't know how that applies to you, whether you can do a one legged one or a. 347 00:31:10,372.454466 --> 00:31:13,522.454466 Or and it's again, I'm talking very much able diver there. 348 00:31:13,522.554466 --> 00:31:19,502.552466 Feel free to pull me up if I run off too far because there's other ways to manage positioning and all that sort of thing. 349 00:31:19,552.552466 --> 00:31:20,662.551466 Yeah, so that's all I do. 350 00:31:20,752.552466 --> 00:31:25,452.551466 And I'd love to teach decompression diving in particular and if I lived in a. 351 00:31:25,677.551466 --> 00:31:35,797.550466 Overhead cave region, I probably would teach cave diving too, but I don't, and I just don't think there's any point in the world doesn't need another cave instructor that doesn't live in a cave region. 352 00:31:35,797.551466 --> 00:31:40,7.550466 It's, I'm not going to be as good as the people that you're going to meet in Mexico and that sort of thing. 353 00:31:40,7.551466 --> 00:31:44,277.551466 So I think it's better if I stay in my lane and focus on sidemount. 354 00:31:44,277.551466 --> 00:31:50,867.551466 And as I said, I'd love to teach deco diving, but I just don't have the time or or inclination really to go through what it's going to take to do that. 355 00:31:52,232.551466 --> 00:31:58,982.550466 I'm lucky in that aspect as well, because the guy who's training me for sidemount, he actually was trained by Jill Heinerth. 356 00:31:59,247.551466 --> 00:31:59,737.551466 Oh, perfect. 357 00:32:00,12.550466 --> 00:32:02,832.550466 Yeah, so I actually had her on yesterday. 358 00:32:03,342.550466 --> 00:32:08,262.550466 Um, I might actually get to do a sidemount dive with her this summer Oh, that's, that's going to be a real pleasure. 359 00:32:08,262.550466 --> 00:32:08,472.550466 Yeah. 360 00:32:08,592.550466 --> 00:32:31,12.549466 She's an amazing woman, obviously, one of the legions of cave diving and one of the, one of the luminaries of sidemount in terms of the history of sidemount too, she was around in the very, not long after the very beginning of sidemount diving in the, in North America, with the, the Woody Jasper Lamar Hires and Wes Skiles as they were developing sidemount as it became in Florida. 361 00:32:31,12.549466 --> 00:32:31,292.548966 Yeah. 362 00:32:31,307.549966 --> 00:32:37,177.549966 Then Jill wasn't that far behind with guys like Brian Kuk and others who continued that on. 363 00:32:37,177.549966 --> 00:32:38,317.549966 That's a real privilege. 364 00:32:38,437.549966 --> 00:32:38,947.549966 I met Jill. 365 00:32:38,947.549966 --> 00:32:41,907.549966 I interviewed her on my podcast while quite a while ago. 366 00:32:41,907.549966 --> 00:32:48,587.549966 She was one of my early guests and I got the opportunity to meet her in Mexico in 2022 while she was there filming. 367 00:32:48,647.549966 --> 00:32:49,847.549966 I think it's into darkness. 368 00:32:49,852.549966 --> 00:32:51,795.549966 So her, her life story. 369 00:32:52,275.549966 --> 00:32:57,105.549966 The movie, which I haven't seen yet, I really want to see it, but it was a real pleasure to meet her in person as well. 370 00:32:58,560.549966 --> 00:33:00,200.549966 Yeah she's really amazing. 371 00:33:00,200.549966 --> 00:33:07,100.549966 She actually got certified and trained about an hour and a half north of my house originally. 372 00:33:07,210.549966 --> 00:33:08,990.549966 So she's done lots of diving up here. 373 00:33:08,990.549966 --> 00:33:11,310.549466 She's, I know she's coming up again this summer. 374 00:33:11,310.549466 --> 00:33:19,820.549966 So we're hoping that I'm going to be able to get a dive and get some critiquing out of her because she actually was the one that taught my instructor how to cave dive. 375 00:33:20,105.549966 --> 00:33:20,355.549966 Yeah. 376 00:33:20,385.548966 --> 00:33:20,575.548966 Yeah. 377 00:33:20,575.549966 --> 00:33:20,775.549966 Yeah. 378 00:33:20,775.549966 --> 00:33:22,55.549966 You're in very good company there. 379 00:33:22,595.548966 --> 00:33:24,445.549966 Pass on my regards when you catch up with that. 380 00:33:24,485.549966 --> 00:33:25,515.548966 That's absolutely awesome. 381 00:33:26,945.549966 --> 00:33:27,645.549966 Absolutely. 382 00:33:28,225.549966 --> 00:33:44,535.550966 So, Now one of the other things is that you actually were, when you were in the Navy, you were the marine engineer of the Leander Class Frigate HMNZS Canterbury, right? Which is now an artificial reef that you do a lot of training on. 383 00:33:46,455.550966 --> 00:33:50,845.550966 So tell me what that's like to dive on your old ship and be able to train on it. 384 00:33:51,240.550966 --> 00:33:54,250.550966 It's, excuse me, it's one of the pleasures of my life, to be honest. 385 00:33:54,320.550966 --> 00:34:08,390.552966 I had I tell people a lot I lean back on my naval career quite a lot, a lot of my my team at my coffee shop that I own now, they comment that I often reminisce and, I'm talking to people and if an old sailor comes into the shop, we'll talk for hours. 386 00:34:08,700.552966 --> 00:34:11,790.552966 So yeah, I, that time in my life was very dear to me. 387 00:34:11,790.552966 --> 00:34:12,770.552966 I learned a lot. 388 00:34:12,830.551966 --> 00:34:15,470.551966 It formed some of the foundations of the person I am today. 389 00:34:15,500.552966 --> 00:34:18,150.551966 So the 14 years I had was just brilliant. 390 00:34:18,520.551966 --> 00:34:20,980.552966 Having said that I wasn't unhappy to leave either. 391 00:34:20,980.552966 --> 00:34:27,780.552966 I think I'd, then if I'd outgrown the Navy or there was some things there that were just to be blunt with pissing me off. 392 00:34:27,780.552966 --> 00:34:30,290.552466 So it's, it's a little bit the way in the military. 393 00:34:30,290.552466 --> 00:34:31,380.552966 If you like, you're either there for. 394 00:34:31,780.552966 --> 00:34:33,190.552966 You're either a lifer or you're not. 395 00:34:33,810.552966 --> 00:34:36,180.552966 And I felt like I was living in a bit of a box. 396 00:34:36,420.552966 --> 00:34:39,670.552966 And there was a big world out there that I wanted to go and experience. 397 00:34:39,680.551966 --> 00:34:41,460.552966 So that was why I left. 398 00:34:41,920.551966 --> 00:34:49,310.451966 But having said that, yeah, my career, the very first ship I went on as an apprentice, young apprentice marine engineer was Canterbury. 399 00:34:49,870.551966 --> 00:35:01,240.551966 So in 1981, and I remember the feeling of going on that ship and living in the mystique that we were there with, 40 other guys in this little space and the shifts on the other side in the same space as us. 400 00:35:01,240.551966 --> 00:35:06,820.551966 It was pretty interesting living experience very close and Yeah, not so much that way anymore. 401 00:35:06,820.551966 --> 00:35:14,940.551966 This is very old days Navy now, but I just loved it and loved everything about it and was good enough to become an officer. 402 00:35:15,260.552966 --> 00:35:26,50.551966 Not long after that was promoted in 1982 and went through officer training and then, ended up, doing an engineering degree at Auckland University and going to the UK for postgrad training. 403 00:35:26,310.551966 --> 00:35:38,140.550966 And then when I came back, I was posted not to Canterbury, but to Wellington, which was a sister ship, exactly the same class of Leander frigate, and so did some of my base engineer officer training there. 404 00:35:38,555.551966 --> 00:35:51,25.551466 And then after that was posted to Canterbury as the assistant engineer so it was my second time, went ashore, ran the marine engineering school, and then went back for a third time as the, what I call the chief engineer, but the marine engineer officer. 405 00:35:51,25.551466 --> 00:35:58,355.552966 So you're in charge of the complete propulsion plant, air conditioning, refrigeration some of the hydraulics in terms of steering gear. 406 00:35:58,835.553966 --> 00:36:16,755.552966 But we, the boiler room, engine room, diesel generators, all of that was mine, had 50 staff, 29 years old, would you believe, when I first went on, turned 30 on Canterbury, so a lot of responsibility, several hundred million dollars worth of equipment was in my charge as a, what I would consider now a very young man. 407 00:36:17,240.553966 --> 00:36:24,790.552966 I was the youngest ever at the time, so my career was going pretty well and I thought it was a bit of a hot shot, but it was it was fun time. 408 00:36:24,930.552966 --> 00:36:37,880.552966 And to be honest, the reason I left at that point too was my daughter was born and she was 18 months old and I was about to go on a nine month deployment and I just didn't really want to leave my family for that amount of time. 409 00:36:38,300.552966 --> 00:36:44,120.552966 And I've always maintained, I could have posted off because the ship was going on this amazing deployment to Scandinavia and Europe and so on. 410 00:36:44,620.552966 --> 00:36:48,700.552966 I could have posted off and stayed in the Navy and not gone on that trip. 411 00:36:48,700.552966 --> 00:36:52,650.552466 But I always been one that if you can't do the job properly, then you probably shouldn't do it. 412 00:36:52,660.552466 --> 00:36:55,440.550966 So I that was when I decided to leave. 413 00:36:55,490.550966 --> 00:37:09,30.550966 Some years later, so I left in 1993 and then 2007, in fact, the years before that, probably 2003 to 7 Shane Houshmand and Julia Riddle at Northland Dive actually purchased the Canterbury when it was decommissioned for 1. 414 00:37:09,680.550966 --> 00:37:12,350.550966 And They they knew what they were buying. 415 00:37:12,350.550966 --> 00:37:18,50.550966 They were actually buying several hundred thousand dollars in debt to prepare the ship to be sunk as a dive wreck. 416 00:37:18,570.550966 --> 00:37:26,430.550966 And Shane had always had this vision of sinking a wreck in, in the particular site that it's at Deepwater Cove on Moni Bay in the Bay of Islands. 417 00:37:26,430.550966 --> 00:37:30,210.550966 It was very sheltered, the perfect place to drop a shipwreck. 418 00:37:30,210.550966 --> 00:37:33,400.550966 And he knew that a very smart man and had some vision there. 419 00:37:33,400.550966 --> 00:37:34,300.550966 And so he and Julia. 420 00:37:34,700.550966 --> 00:37:39,150.550966 And others did all the preparation to prepare the ship to be sunk. 421 00:37:39,170.550966 --> 00:37:51,520.549966 They managed the whole process of stripping it, cleaning it, getting it environmentally ready to be sunk as a dive wreck, cutting holes in it removing some equipment and then putting it down. 422 00:37:51,550.551966 --> 00:37:55,490.450966 And, it's not easy to put a shipwreck down completely upright and they achieved that. 423 00:37:55,860.450966 --> 00:37:57,800.450966 They got it pretty much the depth they wanted. 424 00:37:57,800.450966 --> 00:38:00,370.450966 It's slightly deeper than they wanted, but that's not a. 425 00:38:00,615.450966 --> 00:38:02,245.450966 downside as far as I'm concerned. 426 00:38:02,815.450966 --> 00:38:04,105.450966 And I was aware it was going down. 427 00:38:04,105.450966 --> 00:38:12,785.450966 Unfortunately, I was very busy working in a software company at the time, so I didn't get to see it very much or dive it or do it or see it during that process. 428 00:38:12,975.450966 --> 00:38:15,125.449966 But I did get to dive it, not when it was sunk. 429 00:38:15,125.450966 --> 00:38:19,905.450966 I was in Germany at that time, but when I came back and so I first dived it in January of 2008. 430 00:38:21,65.450966 --> 00:38:29,535.450966 And I wrote a book on this the Canterbury wreck divers guide on the history of the ship and what it's like to dive it and also how to dive it. 431 00:38:29,685.450966 --> 00:38:32,295.450966 And so that was pretty cool to do. 432 00:38:33,50.450966 --> 00:38:35,70.450966 I wrote most of that book in Malta from memory. 433 00:38:35,450.450966 --> 00:38:46,600.449466 So it was quite an interesting challenge for me, some 30 years after I actually left the Navy to to write this book on how to dive it and describe the ship in detail. 434 00:38:46,760.449466 --> 00:38:53,30.450466 But I just knew it that well, it was embedded into my psyche and memory, almost every rivet on the ship. 435 00:38:53,30.450466 --> 00:38:57,660.450466 So now diving it, I've got many hundreds of dives I haven't bothered to count, but a lot. 436 00:38:58,330.450466 --> 00:39:02,250.450466 I've dives on here and I've been to nearly every compartment. 437 00:39:02,600.450466 --> 00:39:03,830.450466 I've been to the some of them. 438 00:39:03,830.450466 --> 00:39:07,0.450466 I haven't been to because it's just not interesting store spaces and so on. 439 00:39:07,10.450466 --> 00:39:17,840.450466 But in particular, the machinery spaces, the boiler room, engine room, diesel generator space, refrigeration, AC spaces, and then some of the other interesting spaces, the magazine and shell room. 440 00:39:18,315.450466 --> 00:39:18,495.500466 Where the 4. 441 00:39:18,495.500466 --> 00:39:23,285.450466 5 inch cartridges and shells were stored and the steering gear compartment. 442 00:39:23,285.450466 --> 00:39:27,765.450466 Yeah, there's just so many awesome spaces that you can penetrate and dive. 443 00:39:27,765.450466 --> 00:39:31,85.450466 And it has everything from dives for the beginner diver. 444 00:39:31,440.450466 --> 00:40:03,640.450466 Where you can go around the the superstructure and there's a few little easy penetration spaces, the bridge and the operations room and the hangar, and then there's intermediate dives where you can as a trained wreck diver, can go along the two deck passage, which runs the complete length of the ship, 113 meters of passage, you can swim along, but there's always exits left and right, and then as an advanced wreck diver, there's just these amazing spaces down in three, four and five deck where You can go into the machinery spaces and others and just have brilliant dives. 445 00:40:03,780.450466 --> 00:40:09,90.449466 If anyone's interested in seeing obviously I've got the book available through my website, sidemountpros. 446 00:40:09,130.450466 --> 00:40:09,500.450466 com. 447 00:40:09,790.450466 --> 00:40:15,650.449466 But there's also on my YouTube channel, Sidemount Pros, there's tons of video of me and others diving it. 448 00:40:15,700.450466 --> 00:40:18,0.450466 It's just a, it's a spectacular wreck to dive. 449 00:40:18,210.450466 --> 00:40:22,210.450466 It's an artificial reef, one that wasn't sunk by other means, if you like. 450 00:40:23,730.450466 --> 00:40:28,220.450466 Yeah that's amazing since you especially have such a personal tie to it. 451 00:40:28,860.450466 --> 00:40:34,920.449966 Um, and by the way, all of the information links to Steve's info is going to be down in the bottom here. 452 00:40:34,920.449966 --> 00:40:38,50.450466 So you'll be able to click on it and go over and check this stuff out. 453 00:40:38,990.449466 --> 00:40:39,850.450466 Oh, no problem. 454 00:40:39,990.450466 --> 00:40:41,600.450466 I'm glad to have you on. 455 00:40:41,610.450466 --> 00:40:42,490.450466 This is amazing. 456 00:40:43,220.450466 --> 00:40:48,985.450466 What about now tell me, do you do a lot of rebreather diving? Yeah, I do whenever I can now. 457 00:40:49,25.450466 --> 00:40:54,105.449966 So in 2018, 19, I was just before the pandemic. 458 00:40:54,105.449966 --> 00:41:01,765.448466 In fact, I was starting to get to this point in cave diving in particular and a little bit with wreck diving. 459 00:41:01,765.449466 --> 00:41:07,335.449466 I went to truck lagoon and I was diving tri mix open circuit, 60, 70 meters there. 460 00:41:07,615.449466 --> 00:41:17,725.449466 And starting to feel like I was hitting the barriers of what you could do open circuit, and this was particularly driven by the cost of trimix, which had gone through the roof, particularly in New Zealand. 461 00:41:17,735.449466 --> 00:41:17,885.449466 Here. 462 00:41:17,885.449466 --> 00:41:19,405.449466 It's incredibly expensive. 463 00:41:19,765.449466 --> 00:41:27,245.448466 So I was starting and a lot of my friends were diving rebreathers who were diving APs and it's abhorrent to me to put something on my back. 464 00:41:27,245.448466 --> 00:41:30,505.449466 So I just was not going to go down that path. 465 00:41:31,145.449466 --> 00:41:35,955.449466 Of diving a back mount rebreather and I can, these guys are great divers. 466 00:41:35,955.449466 --> 00:41:45,955.449466 So take everything I'm about to say with that as the background, but they always look clumsy and overloaded and out of trim and. 467 00:41:46,520.450466 --> 00:41:50,300.450466 in the water, I just, it just doesn't do it for me at all. 468 00:41:51,600.450466 --> 00:42:00,280.450466 even though they're doing great dives and they're good, good divers and everything, they need DPVs to pull them around because there, there's so much resistance and bulk. 469 00:42:00,615.450466 --> 00:42:02,355.450466 And what they're doing, and I just didn't want to do that. 470 00:42:02,765.450466 --> 00:42:04,555.450466 So I started on speaking sidemount. 471 00:42:04,555.450466 --> 00:42:08,335.450466 In fact, I started on my podcast when I was interviewing guests, and Jill was one of them. 472 00:42:08,335.450466 --> 00:42:10,125.450466 I asked Jill about the Divesoft Liberty. 473 00:42:10,585.449466 --> 00:42:15,345.448966 We've started to talk about sidemount rebreathers and, there's obviously the KISS Sidekick. 474 00:42:15,965.449966 --> 00:42:18,845.449966 Which I spoke to Brian Kaycook about and a few others. 475 00:42:18,885.449966 --> 00:42:23,345.449966 There's the Dive Soft Liberty, which a lot of people are diving and love. 476 00:42:23,345.449966 --> 00:42:24,935.449966 There's the T Reb has come out. 477 00:42:24,935.449966 --> 00:42:26,725.449966 So I spoke to Toddy about the T Reb. 478 00:42:27,115.449966 --> 00:42:35,335.450966 And then the, I started to hear about the KISS Sidewinder first from Michael Thomas, one of the Cape Diving Group divers when I interviewed him. 479 00:42:35,865.450966 --> 00:42:39,525.450966 And he triggered my thought process. 480 00:42:39,525.450966 --> 00:42:42,535.450966 And so then I had Ed Sorensen on one, very famous. 481 00:42:42,825.450966 --> 00:42:55,585.451966 Cave diver from Mariana, Florida, and I spoke to Ed, and Ed was the test diver for the KISS Sidewinder, and was also one of the most prominent, if not the most prominent instructors on the Sidewinder at the time. 482 00:42:56,155.451966 --> 00:43:01,595.451966 I just listened to what Ed had to say, I cross referenced it with what Michael Thomas said, and I thought, yeah, that's the one for me. 483 00:43:01,655.451966 --> 00:43:12,220.451966 Without really trying it, or without doing anything, I booked a course with Ed, bought a Sidewinder, flew across the planet and, landed in LA had a night overnight in LA. 484 00:43:12,950.451966 --> 00:43:22,260.451966 Flew across to Panama City, landed at midnight, grabbed a car, drove in the dark through, through the panhandle there, which is an experience if you've never done that. 485 00:43:22,490.451966 --> 00:43:25,850.450966 It's it's very black and very dark there and interesting roads. 486 00:43:25,900.450966 --> 00:43:30,0.450966 And of course, Ed was awake to welcome me at three in the morning or whenever I arrived. 487 00:43:30,0.451966 --> 00:43:39,410.451966 So I basically had to like, find my way to my accommodation, fall on the floor, and then turn up at eight o'clock the next morning, ready to dive with Ed Sorensen. 488 00:43:39,940.451966 --> 00:43:41,590.451966 It was a great experience. 489 00:43:41,590.451966 --> 00:43:44,730.451966 He's a fantastic guy, a brilliant instructor. 490 00:43:45,180.451966 --> 00:43:55,380.452466 And he and I just, we got on really well and he trained me on the Sidewinder and what an experience, training with a guy like that in caves in Mariana, Florida. 491 00:43:55,380.452466 --> 00:43:57,520.452466 And then, we just did some brilliant diving afterwards. 492 00:43:57,520.452466 --> 00:43:59,280.452466 Again, there's video of that on my channel. 493 00:43:59,750.452466 --> 00:44:03,630.452466 And that then, then from that point on, I was a Sidewinder diver. 494 00:44:03,630.452466 --> 00:44:04,900.452466 So I dive it whenever I can. 495 00:44:05,180.452466 --> 00:44:09,520.452466 I have to say that I have to open circuit dive a fair bit because of, teaching. 496 00:44:09,900.452466 --> 00:44:13,370.452466 And then there's just times when I do dive quite a lot on my own. 497 00:44:13,970.452466 --> 00:44:18,550.452466 And there's nothing in my mind particularly wrong with diving the Sidewinder on your own. 498 00:44:18,550.452466 --> 00:44:24,660.451466 But in New Zealand here, we the, there's a group of, the more senior divers in the country here that I hang with. 499 00:44:24,660.451466 --> 00:44:29,650.451466 And we've Got a little kind of agreement between us that we won't solo dive on Rebreathers. 500 00:44:30,240.451466 --> 00:44:31,150.451466 And that's fair enough. 501 00:44:31,170.451466 --> 00:44:42,845.451466 It is a more dangerous way of diving potentially, and We so I don't do it out of respect for my colleagues and I as I said, I feel okay doing it myself, but yeah, we've got an agreement. 502 00:44:42,845.451466 --> 00:44:43,395.451466 So that's it. 503 00:44:43,675.451466 --> 00:44:45,295.451466 So I do dive solo quite a bit. 504 00:44:45,295.451466 --> 00:44:46,795.451466 And when I do, I dive open circuit. 505 00:44:47,385.451466 --> 00:44:54,200.351466 But if I'm cave diving, for instance, I've got at least 2 cave trips a year to South Australia, and I always take the Sidewinder for that. 506 00:44:54,630.451466 --> 00:44:57,660.451466 And it's an amazing tool for cave diving. 507 00:44:57,690.451466 --> 00:45:02,810.451466 As Ed Sorensen describes, it takes away all the gas stress, distance stress, time stress. 508 00:45:03,90.450466 --> 00:45:05,960.451466 If you have a problem, you've got literally hours to solve it. 509 00:45:06,600.451466 --> 00:45:11,730.451466 And yes, it can cause you problems, but if you need to bail out of the Sidewinder, you bail out to Sidemount. 510 00:45:12,430.451466 --> 00:45:13,930.451466 So you're back to your happy place. 511 00:45:14,300.451466 --> 00:45:17,450.451466 Open circuit Sidemount, it's exactly your open circuit setup. 512 00:45:17,950.451466 --> 00:45:20,200.451966 When you bail out you've just got the Sidewinder on top of it. 513 00:45:20,340.551966 --> 00:45:24,80.451966 To me, an amazing tool super excited at the moment. 514 00:45:24,90.451966 --> 00:45:26,370.451966 The Sidewinder 2 is very close to launching. 515 00:45:27,30.451966 --> 00:45:28,730.451966 I'm excited to cross over onto that. 516 00:45:28,730.451966 --> 00:45:32,720.451966 And that will be my tool of choice from once I get my hands on one. 517 00:45:33,170.451966 --> 00:45:35,590.451466 And yeah, I'm a real passionate. 518 00:45:35,840.451466 --> 00:45:37,450.451466 Side mount rebreather diver. 519 00:45:37,870.451466 --> 00:45:42,80.451466 So I'm not as keen to have a rebreather on my side. 520 00:45:42,110.451466 --> 00:45:48,20.451466 Like the Liberty and the T Rev, mainly because of the benefits I see with the Sidewinder. 521 00:45:49,30.450466 --> 00:45:53,80.351466 I just love the fact that it is my open circuit side mount setup. 522 00:45:53,600.451466 --> 00:45:59,850.451466 On my side I understand some of the benefits of the chest mounted ones as well, but I don't like having bulk on my chest either. 523 00:45:59,900.451466 --> 00:46:02,390.451466 It's not great for going through restrictions and caves, for instance. 524 00:46:02,730.451466 --> 00:46:09,230.450466 So I think, the Sidewinder is my tool of choice because of the cave diving and also because of how good it is open water diving. 525 00:46:09,855.451466 --> 00:46:18,635.451466 And there's a backmount version, which I might dive just quietly, there's a backmount version of the Sidewinder 2, so if I'm on a charter boat, for instance, that might be a good opportunity to try that out. 526 00:46:18,755.451466 --> 00:46:23,305.451466 For no other reason than the Sidewinder is a little bit wide, so trying to fit it in too. 527 00:46:23,575.451466 --> 00:46:29,365.451466 A slot on a charter boat is not that easy and I end up having to lay it on the deck or something, which isn't ideal. 528 00:46:29,375.451466 --> 00:46:31,115.451466 So yeah, love, love it. 529 00:46:31,215.451466 --> 00:46:34,855.451466 I think there's a lot of benefit in being a good open circuit diver before you go to Rebreathers. 530 00:46:34,855.451466 --> 00:46:37,465.450466 So that's the path that I went down. 531 00:46:39,685.450466 --> 00:46:47,345.450466 That is actually amazing that you guys, the pro guys you hang out with have a deal that nobody dives solo. 532 00:46:47,730.450466 --> 00:46:48,580.450466 With a rebreather. 533 00:46:49,230.450466 --> 00:46:52,340.450466 I've never heard of anybody making that type of a agreement. 534 00:46:52,670.450466 --> 00:46:55,60.450466 no it's, I think it's a little bit particular. 535 00:46:55,140.450466 --> 00:46:58,810.450466 You could pull it off in other places, but it's a little bit particular to New Zealand. 536 00:46:58,810.450466 --> 00:46:58,970.450466 Yeah. 537 00:46:58,970.450466 --> 00:47:04,470.450466 We're a very small community of, instructors at the higher levels here. 538 00:47:05,0.450466 --> 00:47:10,120.449966 And, I'm talking, guys like Pete Mesley and Andrew Simpson and Dave Pierce and a few others. 539 00:47:10,460.449966 --> 00:47:14,620.449966 And, so I've just put four or five names out there, there's a, there are definitely others as well. 540 00:47:14,620.449966 --> 00:47:20,860.448966 And I don't know whether the others are in the agreement, but it was just a few phone calls and discussions around. 541 00:47:21,225.449966 --> 00:47:22,15.449966 What's appropriate. 542 00:47:22,25.449966 --> 00:47:35,445.448966 Some of it was driven by the ReBreather forum that Michael Monduno runs and some of the findings from those in terms of ReBreather accidents and, no one wants to see, lose someone or have an accident or anything like that. 543 00:47:35,905.448966 --> 00:47:39,925.448966 Having a buddy there, who knows whether that will help you, but the bottom line is it can't hurt. 544 00:47:40,325.448966 --> 00:47:43,325.348966 So I think that's where we're at. 545 00:47:43,325.448966 --> 00:47:47,15.448966 And as I said, I'm happy to honor that with my friends and colleagues here. 546 00:47:47,520.448966 --> 00:48:04,580.447466 But yeah, as I said, I'm not against, I'm not against it per se myself, some of my very good friends and some of my guests on speaking side mount, big time solo sidewinder divers and, that's awesome, and so it's it's basically specific and yeah, a lot of it is about role modeling. 547 00:48:04,720.447466 --> 00:48:08,990.447466 A lot of it is about, where it's supposed to be set in an example for the other divers here. 548 00:48:09,290.447466 --> 00:48:11,210.447466 So it's not always what we do. 549 00:48:11,210.447466 --> 00:48:14,920.447466 It's what other people see us doing and then think might be okay for them. 550 00:48:14,970.447466 --> 00:48:18,990.447466 Most of the guys who I'm talking about here have a huge amount of experience as well. 551 00:48:18,990.447466 --> 00:48:24,160.446466 So yeah, anyhow, that's just something peculiar and maybe particular to us. 552 00:48:25,340.447466 --> 00:48:40,100.347466 Do you guys in New Zealand, do you guys have to worry about a lot of government rulings with how you run a dive operation? Man, it's unbelievable here, and like this, I'm going to be careful, this doesn't turn into a rant. 553 00:48:40,540.347466 --> 00:48:46,450.347466 Like New Zealand, we, A little bit like Canada in some ways, a big industry here is tourism. 554 00:48:46,830.347466 --> 00:48:55,410.346466 And so we, we have massive amounts of tourists and many tourists come here for the adventure that the New Zealand can provide. 555 00:48:55,410.346466 --> 00:49:03,110.546466 We've got everything from whitewater rafting to, caving to mountaineering to ocean activities to bungee jumping. 556 00:49:03,110.546466 --> 00:49:04,30.546466 You look, you name it. 557 00:49:04,40.546466 --> 00:49:04,650.546466 We've got it. 558 00:49:05,100.546466 --> 00:49:08,15.546466 And unfortunately, there have been some Yes. 559 00:49:08,15.646466 --> 00:49:11,150.546466 Yes. 560 00:49:11,640.546466 --> 00:49:29,755.546466 the changes that we have now is there was a whitewater rafting incident where some tourists were killed and that then drove the government to step in and there's an organization called WorkSafe Which is the agency responsible for workplace health and safety. 561 00:49:30,255.546466 --> 00:49:34,495.546466 And they then decided that they would regulate adventure activities. 562 00:49:34,525.546466 --> 00:49:38,715.545466 And so this is anything that could be decided, defined as an adventure activity. 563 00:49:38,885.546466 --> 00:49:40,645.545466 And of course diving got thrown in there. 564 00:49:41,265.546466 --> 00:49:44,835.546466 And so diving fell under the auspices of this. 565 00:49:44,835.546466 --> 00:49:53,575.545466 And so they created a regulation framework where you had to create a safety management system, which not in itself a bad thing. 566 00:49:54,15.545466 --> 00:49:58,15.545466 And you had to document your safety management processes and systems. 567 00:49:58,885.546466 --> 00:50:01,485.545466 But then what came on top of that was auditing. 568 00:50:01,665.546466 --> 00:50:04,795.546466 And so your safety management system gets audited. 569 00:50:05,310.546466 --> 00:50:26,830.545466 And once you're audited, you can become certified as an Adventure Activity Operator, and that is an extremely expensive process, and so every Dive Operator in this country is regulated under these regulations, so as soon as money changes hands, if you're a Diver and you pay an Operator, then that's when these regulations trigger. 570 00:50:27,350.546466 --> 00:50:47,890.547466 And, yeah, these audits, as I said, I was audited for a while, so Mount Pros was audited, and so my initial audit cost 5, 000, and then you had Ongoing surveillance audits every year, which costs anywhere between 500 and a thousand, and this is on top of all the other costs, your agency fees and everything else, costs of running trips and courses and so on. 571 00:50:48,370.547466 --> 00:50:50,550.547466 So it just became for me personally, untenable. 572 00:50:50,590.547466 --> 00:50:56,190.548466 And so now I operate under global dive and I'm a contractor to global dive and that's fantastic. 573 00:50:56,190.548466 --> 00:50:58,770.548466 So that that's, and that's some of the guys I was talking about before. 574 00:50:58,770.548466 --> 00:51:03,100.548466 So they brilliant, the best tech operation in this country, in my opinion. 575 00:51:03,370.548466 --> 00:51:08,10.548466 And I'm one of the contract instructors for side mount diving and they're very good to me. 576 00:51:08,40.548466 --> 00:51:11,230.547966 I try to be really good to them and there's a lot of trust. 577 00:51:11,230.547966 --> 00:51:13,940.547466 But at the same time I operate under the safety management system. 578 00:51:14,100.547466 --> 00:51:14,990.548466 So I'm aware of it. 579 00:51:15,20.547466 --> 00:51:16,750.548466 I'm aware of the requirements on me. 580 00:51:16,860.548466 --> 00:51:19,320.546466 And I think, the whole system has made us safer. 581 00:51:19,320.546466 --> 00:51:19,750.546466 No doubt. 582 00:51:19,790.546466 --> 00:51:20,680.547466 That's a good thing. 583 00:51:21,10.547466 --> 00:51:26,50.647466 But The level of sledgehammer that you get hit by with the audits and everything is way over the top. 584 00:51:26,380.647466 --> 00:51:28,550.647466 And, diving wasn't really a problem. 585 00:51:28,760.647466 --> 00:51:30,460.646466 Have we had fatalities? Yes. 586 00:51:30,680.646466 --> 00:51:33,970.646466 But is it a problem right across the board here? Absolutely not. 587 00:51:34,10.647466 --> 00:51:38,40.645966 We had a really safe a really safe way of doing things here. 588 00:51:38,445.645966 --> 00:51:43,25.645966 Previously, and yeah, we're safer now, but the expense of what we're doing is unreal. 589 00:51:43,475.645966 --> 00:51:45,505.645466 Now, the other thing that we get regulated for is cylinders. 590 00:51:45,505.645466 --> 00:51:47,565.645966 So I mentioned 7 litre cylinders before. 591 00:51:47,595.645966 --> 00:51:51,185.644966 I own 2 of probably half a dozen or a dozen in the country. 592 00:51:51,665.645966 --> 00:51:55,865.644966 And the reason for that is we regulate cylinders incredibly tightly as well. 593 00:51:56,175.645966 --> 00:52:02,595.645966 So it doesn't matter that cylinders are certified in America, Canada UK, Europe, Australia. 594 00:52:03,295.645966 --> 00:52:26,415.645966 Yeah, what you would consider good Western jurisdictions, where you would trust that cylinders aren't exploding left and center, we don't take any notice of any of that, and we have our own certification system, whereby, if you want to bring cylinders into the country, they have to get what's called a lab number, and in order to get a lab number, they have to go through, two cylinders have to be destructively tested, you have to provide all of the documentation from the manufacturer, et cetera. 595 00:52:26,715.645966 --> 00:52:32,435.645966 to show that they comply with the regulations, which are pretty much Australian regulations anyhow. 596 00:52:32,935.645966 --> 00:52:34,715.645966 And then you get a lab number. 597 00:52:34,905.645966 --> 00:52:45,425.645966 And so the cost of all of that, you need to be bringing a hundred cylinders into the country before it even makes sense based on the margins that you would make from selling them before you'd want to do that. 598 00:52:45,585.645966 --> 00:53:02,435.646466 And so as a result of that, there's a lot of 12 liter steels, there's a lot of 80, early 80s, There's a lot of LE40s, there's a lot of steel 3 litre cylinders which are used in back mount rebreathers, but do you think you can get 7 litre steels, the ones I've been describing to you? Very rare. 599 00:53:02,795.646466 --> 00:53:11,285.646466 Do you think you can get 2 litre steels, which I use as my O2 cylinder for my sidewinder? I've got 2 of, again, a handful of those that are in the country. 600 00:53:11,735.646466 --> 00:53:14,915.646466 To put a 3 liter steel on a side one, it doesn't make any sense. 601 00:53:15,25.646466 --> 00:53:17,805.646466 And so that's incredibly painful. 602 00:53:17,805.646466 --> 00:53:24,385.646466 Another example is the 40 cubic foot aluminiums, which are certified in this country, are only certified for air. 603 00:53:25,175.645466 --> 00:53:31,575.646466 Now, everywhere else in the world, they can be used for O2, they can be used for nitrox, but whoever brought them in didn't tick the boxes. 604 00:53:31,870.646466 --> 00:53:34,160.646466 For nitrox and O2 usage. 605 00:53:34,540.646466 --> 00:53:37,260.646466 So as a result, they're not certified for those gases. 606 00:53:37,290.646466 --> 00:53:40,0.646466 And so now, what a great deco cylinder. 607 00:53:40,0.646466 --> 00:53:42,120.645466 40 cubic foot aluminiums are amazing. 608 00:53:42,390.645466 --> 00:53:44,420.645466 50 percent in O2 cylinders. 609 00:53:44,450.644466 --> 00:53:46,467.2777993 And, do you think we can use them for that? No. 610 00:53:47,47.2777993 --> 00:53:49,347.2797993 And then, there's filling regulations. 611 00:53:49,347.2797993 --> 00:53:52,977.2797993 And on top of that, if you want to run a boat, you've got to go through a separate audit for the boat. 612 00:53:53,37.2797993 --> 00:53:53,807.2797993 And none of the other. 613 00:53:54,247.2797993 --> 00:53:59,287.2797993 Medicals or anything that you do for your diver thing crosses over to Maritime New Zealand. 614 00:53:59,467.2797993 --> 00:54:01,237.2797993 That's a completely separate organization. 615 00:54:01,237.2797993 --> 00:54:02,137.2797993 So you've got to double up. 616 00:54:02,507.2797993 --> 00:54:06,77.2807993 So it's can I swear? Can I swear on this show? Yeah. 617 00:54:06,77.2807993 --> 00:54:06,547.2807993 Yeah. 618 00:54:06,647.2807993 --> 00:54:07,517.2802993 It's a clusterfuck. 619 00:54:07,517.2802993 --> 00:54:08,37.2807993 It really is. 620 00:54:08,57.2797993 --> 00:54:10,267.2807993 It's just absolutely a mess. 621 00:54:10,297.2807993 --> 00:54:20,797.2807993 And I give credit to everyone operating and diving in this country that, we basically, we lament it, but we just sigh and roll our eyes and get on with it, but it does create costs. 622 00:54:20,807.2807993 --> 00:54:23,847.2807993 So it does make diving a little bit expensive and a little bit problematic here. 623 00:54:24,147.2807993 --> 00:54:26,237.2807993 Having said that we go diving, we have a lot of fun. 624 00:54:26,247.2797993 --> 00:54:28,307.2807993 There's great dive sites here, phenomenal diving. 625 00:54:28,577.2807993 --> 00:54:29,767.2807993 So don't let me put anyone off. 626 00:54:29,927.2807993 --> 00:54:35,937.2807993 It doesn't affect you as the customer but please be aware that your poor operator is operating under under a sledgehammer. 627 00:54:36,307.2807993 --> 00:54:53,87.2802993 And much of it I think is unnecessary and duplicated and do you think we could just trust the American, European, British and Australian? We come from there, right? Do you think we could trust their regulations to be okay for us as well? I. 628 00:54:53,87.2802993 --> 00:54:53,147.2802993 e. 629 00:54:53,147.2802993 --> 00:55:03,702.2802993 if it's certified EU, CE is so tough to get, but certified CE, for instance, or in Australia, do you think that would be good enough for us? Yeah you would think so. 630 00:55:04,692.2802993 --> 00:55:22,802.2802993 I mean, especially when it comes to, I don't understand why they wouldn't have approved a tank for like nitrox or oxygen, and they just have air IFI found out that if I could find out who got them certified, I might be able to get them to go and backtrack and like back, tick the boxes. 631 00:55:23,192.2802993 --> 00:55:30,677.2802993 So I did get told that, so maybe I need to just for me I dunno if anyone else is asking we're allowed to put 40% in I think, but not 50. 632 00:55:30,677.2802993 --> 00:55:30,827.2802993 Yeah. 633 00:55:30,877.2802993 --> 00:55:32,77.2802993 I don't even want to go on anymore. 634 00:55:32,77.2802993 --> 00:55:33,967.2802993 I'll get too unhappy and sad man. 635 00:55:33,967.2802993 --> 00:55:39,937.2802993 And my day's too short for that and that is crazy. 636 00:55:39,937.2802993 --> 00:55:40,167.2802993 It's. 637 00:55:40,502.2812993 --> 00:55:45,152.2812993 It's good in one way that they've taken it seriously with safety. 638 00:55:45,172.2812993 --> 00:56:02,857.2812993 However, when you take things to the extreme of that sometimes, and I imagine your insurance costs, everybody's insurance has gone up to as well for operating, Okay, there's always a balancing force, right? So there's got to be a balancing force and the balancing force in this country is that we don't have insurance. 639 00:56:02,857.2812993 --> 00:56:04,47.2802993 We don't need to insure. 640 00:56:04,412.2812993 --> 00:56:07,372.2812993 We have a we've had what's might be regarded in the U. 641 00:56:07,372.2812993 --> 00:56:07,572.2812993 S. 642 00:56:07,572.2812993 --> 00:56:17,952.2792993 as tort reform, where you actually can't sue anyone for pretty much So pretty much So yeah, so we have a thing called ACC, Accident Compensation Commission. 643 00:56:17,952.2802993 --> 00:56:25,417.2802993 So if you're the victim of an accident, You can make a claim to ACC and they will cover all your medical costs for that accident. 644 00:56:26,67.2802993 --> 00:56:32,907.2812993 And they, if you're working, get paid 80 percent of your income for the duration that you're unwell or injured. 645 00:56:33,567.2802993 --> 00:56:36,237.2812993 And sometimes if you have a permanent injury, they'll give you a payout. 646 00:56:37,182.2812993 --> 00:56:37,942.2812993 Now, they're not massive. 647 00:56:37,942.2812993 --> 00:56:42,852.2812993 It's not like suing someone and getting millions or whatever, but you'll get, you lose something. 648 00:56:42,862.2812993 --> 00:56:47,322.2802993 In your situation, you probably would have got a payout if it was a result of an accident. 649 00:56:47,332.2802993 --> 00:56:49,662.2802993 So the, it is pretty good. 650 00:56:49,702.2792993 --> 00:56:54,702.1792993 It gets rorted a bit and it's an expensive bloated system to some degree. 651 00:56:55,432.2792993 --> 00:57:06,892.2787993 But it's way better than having to insure yourself and having, the ambulance chasing lawyers and having litigation and court cases and all that sort of thing, there's pretty much none of that. 652 00:57:06,892.2787993 --> 00:57:13,722.2792993 So what happens is when WorkSafe come in, if there's an accident and a operator was involved, WorkSafe will come in. 653 00:57:13,812.2792993 --> 00:57:17,312.2792993 And if you're found to be negligent, and they will go after you really hard. 654 00:57:17,572.2792993 --> 00:57:19,552.1792993 So you have to almost prove you weren't negligent. 655 00:57:20,392.2792993 --> 00:57:26,342.2792993 If you were negligent and they can prove it, then they will fine you and the fines are many hundreds of thousands of dollars. 656 00:57:26,382.2792993 --> 00:57:28,582.2792993 And there is potential for you to be jailed. 657 00:57:28,742.2782993 --> 00:57:33,452.2782993 If there was a fatality, for instance, so they will definitely do that. 658 00:57:33,542.2782993 --> 00:57:35,212.2772993 For instance, we had a disaster. 659 00:57:35,252.2772993 --> 00:57:43,132.1772993 So this is a key example White Island volcano erupted cruise liners were running trips to the island while it's happened in many, Okay. 660 00:57:43,132.3772993 --> 00:57:44,922.2772993 I don't know the number of fatalities. 661 00:57:44,922.2772993 --> 00:57:51,702.2772993 It was incredibly sad, but a bunch of people were killed and there were operators running trips out there, boat trips and so on. 662 00:57:52,142.2772993 --> 00:57:58,938.877966 And so that's a good example of, why they did this and and, WorkSafe went after them pretty hard. 663 00:57:58,938.877966 --> 00:58:07,968.878966 And I'm not, can't remember where that went, but yeah, it's, yeah, and sometimes it's right, if people do the wrong thing, then you deserve to suffer the consequences. 664 00:58:08,458.878966 --> 00:58:17,678.879966 Yeah, it's It is an interesting situation, but we don't have the, we don't have the court case, ambulance chasing or insurance, which I think is a big positive for us. 665 00:58:18,683.942466 --> 00:58:18,983.942466 Wow. 666 00:58:18,983.942466 --> 00:58:19,173.942466 Yeah. 667 00:58:19,223.942466 --> 00:58:20,453.942466 That is a huge savings. 668 00:58:20,453.942466 --> 00:58:26,748.878966 Do you guys even, so you guys don't even have to pay for dive insurance at all Now, the only insurance I have is Dan and that's only for travel. 669 00:58:27,118.878966 --> 00:58:33,498.879466 And then when I teach in Australia, there is an insurance policy for that because they do have a litigious system over there. 670 00:58:33,708.879466 --> 00:58:37,318.880466 So I operate under my partner there's an insurance policy. 671 00:58:37,648.880466 --> 00:58:40,608.880466 And I have taken insurance there myself before when I'm teaching. 672 00:58:40,608.880466 --> 00:58:47,638.880466 So if I went to a jurisdiction and was working and dive instructing for sure, I would have instructor insurance. 673 00:58:47,638.880466 --> 00:58:51,118.879466 And for sure, I have my own personal insurance through Dan when I'm traveling. 674 00:58:52,48.880466 --> 00:58:53,338.880466 Plus my credit card, of course. 675 00:58:54,213.942966 --> 00:58:54,363.942966 yeah. 676 00:58:54,993.942966 --> 00:58:55,203.942966 Yeah. 677 00:58:55,263.942966 --> 00:58:56,613.942966 you definitely need that. 678 00:58:56,618.880466 --> 00:58:56,848.880466 Yeah. 679 00:58:56,848.880466 --> 00:58:57,118.880466 Yeah. 680 00:58:58,333.942966 --> 00:59:10,273.942966 So with are, is New Zealand going to, I've seen that a lot of countries, like I know when I was in Jamaica, they're talking about making it mandatory where you have to have Dan Insurance to dive. 681 00:59:11,178.942966 --> 00:59:11,338.942966 No. 682 00:59:11,338.942966 --> 00:59:14,458.942966 So you're covered as a tourist here as well by ACC. 683 00:59:14,578.942966 --> 00:59:16,228.942966 So for a period of time. 684 00:59:16,548.942966 --> 00:59:20,638.942966 And in New Zealand, a little bit like Canada, we have universal health care anyhow. 685 00:59:20,638.942966 --> 00:59:25,648.944966 If you're if you're injured here or you're sick, you get taken care of to some degree. 686 00:59:25,998.944966 --> 00:59:27,908.945466 It's better if you have your own personal insurance. 687 00:59:27,908.945466 --> 00:59:29,808.945466 I don't have any now because I'm too old for it. 688 00:59:29,808.945466 --> 00:59:32,358.945466 But as you get older, it gets more and more expensive. 689 00:59:32,798.945466 --> 00:59:34,108.945466 But yeah, you're covered. 690 00:59:34,408.945466 --> 00:59:35,588.945466 So we have universal health care. 691 00:59:35,648.945466 --> 00:59:37,658.945466 We pay for that with our taxes and it's awesome. 692 00:59:38,819.007966 --> 00:59:48,548.945466 Which you're really lucky because in Canada, if you have to do a chamber treatment, you're looking at 85 to 100k no. 693 00:59:48,548.945466 --> 00:59:49,219.007966 That's not. 694 00:59:51,148.945466 --> 00:59:52,258.945466 No, you're all So Yeah. 695 00:59:52,348.945466 --> 00:59:52,598.945466 Yeah. 696 00:59:52,788.945466 --> 00:59:54,548.945466 You probably will walk out and pay nothing. 697 00:59:55,68.944466 --> 01:00:01,818.944966 Sometimes you'll pay, if you have to go and see a doctor, you might pay 50 or something as a tourist, but no you're covered. 698 01:00:01,838.944966 --> 01:00:03,928.944966 I'm almost certain that would just be done for you. 699 01:00:04,468.944966 --> 01:00:06,848.844966 No barrier and you go. 700 01:00:07,819.007466 --> 01:00:08,779.068966 gonna add New Zealand. 701 01:00:08,849.007466 --> 01:00:19,9.007466 we don't have enough Benz cases here now, all the hyperbaric physicians would be lining up to be the one to treat you because they all need practice, right? Oh, really? You guys don't get that many cases No. 702 01:00:19,94.007466 --> 01:00:25,444.007466 In fact, if anyone's interested, I interviewed professor Simon Mitchell, a few back a while ago, and we talked about that. 703 01:00:25,444.007466 --> 01:00:28,444.007466 He talked about when he started in hyperbaric medicine. 704 01:00:28,874.007466 --> 01:00:29,174.007466 Yeah. 705 01:00:29,174.007466 --> 01:00:37,404.007466 We had a very, in his words, a very exuberant dive population here who didn't really have computers and weren't very concerned with tables. 706 01:00:37,724.007466 --> 01:00:40,684.007466 So they had a bunch of cases in the 80s in particular. 707 01:00:41,179.007466 --> 01:00:54,609.007466 And early nineties, but now, I do put it down to the advent of tech diving and in a lot of our instructors now to some degree tech trained and, now we have dive computers. 708 01:00:54,629.007466 --> 01:01:01,509.007466 And so people are a lot more aware that we still get some cases, but it's not, he would get a few hundred cases a year previously. 709 01:01:01,509.007466 --> 01:01:05,269.007466 And now it's in the single digits or just low double digits per year. 710 01:01:05,269.007466 --> 01:01:06,139.007466 So it's pretty low. 711 01:01:07,449.069966 --> 01:01:08,409.069966 Wow, that's awesome. 712 01:01:08,509.069966 --> 01:01:11,439.069966 We actually in Tobermory, we have a chamber there. 713 01:01:12,69.069966 --> 01:01:15,169.069966 Um, but yes, but not really. 714 01:01:15,859.069966 --> 01:01:23,189.069966 Our medical system has had so many cutbacks up here that they've actually closed down a lot of the medical centers. 715 01:01:23,739.068966 --> 01:01:33,239.069966 So if you get into an diving accident in Tobermory, they actually have to take you by ambulance 40 minutes south to Wiarton. 716 01:01:33,594.069966 --> 01:01:36,564.069966 to be evaluated and then take you back to the chamber. 717 01:01:37,314.007466 --> 01:01:38,74.007466 Yeah, that sucks. 718 01:01:38,94.007466 --> 01:01:38,444.007466 Yeah. 719 01:01:39,84.069966 --> 01:01:42,604.069966 yeah it's actually ridiculous what they do there. 720 01:01:42,654.069966 --> 01:01:51,254.069966 I've heard many accounts of the diving doctor up there being standing at the clinic, watching the ambulance go to Wireton and having to wait for him to come back. 721 01:01:51,564.007466 --> 01:01:51,964.007466 Yeah. 722 01:01:52,144.007466 --> 01:01:56,954.007466 To be honest here, you probably will have a similar experience because the chamber's in Auckland. 723 01:01:56,984.007466 --> 01:02:02,254.006466 I'm four hour drive from Auckland here and most of the really good diving is up in Northland here. 724 01:02:02,254.006466 --> 01:02:05,514.007966 So you're going to be but then we've got helicopters and stuff as well. 725 01:02:05,514.007966 --> 01:02:07,604.006966 If you're really sick, they'll fly a chopper for you. 726 01:02:07,994.006966 --> 01:02:11,854.106966 And again, you probably won't pay for that, and So that's pretty cool. 727 01:02:11,874.106966 --> 01:02:14,524.106966 And then, and that's if the chopper is available. 728 01:02:14,554.106966 --> 01:02:19,134.106966 If it's not available, then you'd be, medivacs back to Auckland by ambulance or car. 729 01:02:19,534.106966 --> 01:02:25,74.106966 And depending on how bad you are, of course, and then the, but all the physicians are there. 730 01:02:25,624.105966 --> 01:02:29,414.105966 So all the dive physicians at the chambers at the naval base, I think. 731 01:02:29,479.106966 --> 01:02:34,479.106966 I think it might have moved, but was associated with the Navy for a long time and all the physicians are there. 732 01:02:34,509.106966 --> 01:02:37,239.106966 Yeah, I think you'd have a pretty good experience here. 733 01:02:37,349.106966 --> 01:02:41,719.105966 I would say, like most of the world, our healthcare systems come under a bit of pressure since COVID. 734 01:02:42,89.106966 --> 01:02:48,379.106966 It was definitely bad for healthcare here and, we, our medical centers are struggling, our hospitals are struggling. 735 01:02:48,379.106966 --> 01:03:02,563.906966 So there's, it's not a perfect world by any means, but, as I said earlier, I'm very happy to be living in a country that has some form of universal health care, because, I've lived in the States and, I understand, I guess the system, but. 736 01:03:03,34.006966 --> 01:03:05,64.006966 Yeah, we just don't have to buy medical insurance. 737 01:03:05,104.006966 --> 01:03:07,844.006966 It's not a factor in anything that we do here. 738 01:03:08,94.006966 --> 01:03:08,614.006966 Unless you want it. 739 01:03:08,614.106966 --> 01:03:11,69.068466 To is awesome. 740 01:03:11,119.068466 --> 01:03:14,519.068466 You guys are very lucky that your chamber treatments are covered and stuff. 741 01:03:15,289.068466 --> 01:03:17,249.068466 That's a huge advantage for you guys. 742 01:03:18,59.068466 --> 01:03:36,994.005966 Another question while we're talking about dive tables and computers there a minute ago is, what is your opinion on how a lot of instructors now aren't even teaching dive tables and they're basically leaving it to the computer? be honest I agree with that. 743 01:03:37,44.005966 --> 01:03:41,924.006966 I think there is some value in understanding tables. 744 01:03:42,464.006966 --> 01:03:48,424.006966 But I think you could, Take that understanding and apply it to how the computer works. 745 01:03:48,714.006966 --> 01:04:03,134.006466 So having an understanding of your particular computer and the algorithm that it runs and the method by which it's estimating your decompression, because remember, it's never accurate, right? On any given day, it could be way on or way off. 746 01:04:03,134.006466 --> 01:04:13,474.005966 So it's drawing massive assumptions about Your particular situation and your body based on millions of dives, admittedly, but it's still an estimation of where you're at. 747 01:04:13,524.005966 --> 01:04:24,734.005966 If you understand, I think your computer, for instance, I dive Shearwater computers, great Canadian company and and it uses Bormann 16 as its algorithm with gradient factors. 748 01:04:24,924.005966 --> 01:04:31,664.005966 So if you, I think it's important to understand what Bormann is and how that algorithm works and what it's trying to achieve. 749 01:04:32,14.005966 --> 01:04:38,624.005966 And then understanding how gradient factors impact the Borman algorithm, then that's probably enough. 750 01:04:39,14.005966 --> 01:04:45,884.004966 I think it is a good idea to understand what your NDL might be at any particular depth on the particular gas that you're on. 751 01:04:46,364.005966 --> 01:04:51,744.004966 It's but, because we're changing depths all the time and, you're, again, you're very much estimating. 752 01:04:52,64.004966 --> 01:04:59,264.004966 I always wear two computers, so I'm not in a situation where one computer fails and now I don't know where I am. 753 01:04:59,809.004966 --> 01:05:07,19.004966 And also I've always got an understanding of what my decompression situation is at any particular point in time. 754 01:05:07,489.003966 --> 01:05:12,339.002966 I'm on a dive, let's say I've gone deeper and I have a decompression obligation. 755 01:05:12,729.003966 --> 01:05:18,179.003966 If my computer failed, then of course I need to ascend and so I'd quickly, very quickly get myself to 21 meters. 756 01:05:18,389.003966 --> 01:05:22,659.003966 I'm either doing a gas switch or I'm on a rebreather, which is changing the gas. 757 01:05:22,924.003966 --> 01:05:23,814.003966 Mix as I go. 758 01:05:24,354.003966 --> 01:05:31,464.002966 And then I'd be wanting to get myself, I'd probably just do a a series of stops to six meters and then hang at six meters for as long as I could. 759 01:05:31,474.003966 --> 01:05:33,644.003966 There's, that's as easy as it could be. 760 01:05:33,874.003966 --> 01:05:36,134.002966 I have been trained in ratio deco as well. 761 01:05:36,134.002966 --> 01:05:43,544.003966 So there is an opportunity for me to calculate based on my dive profile, the decompression obligation that I have. 762 01:05:43,979.003966 --> 01:05:45,399.003966 I won't say I'm an expert in that. 763 01:05:45,399.003966 --> 01:05:53,89.003466 I haven't practiced it a lot but there's opportunities to use ratios as well that, in the absence of a computer can work really well for you. 764 01:05:53,139.003466 --> 01:05:55,299.005466 So I'm not opposed to not teaching tables. 765 01:05:55,299.005466 --> 01:05:57,559.005466 I think it's yesterday's methods. 766 01:05:57,609.005466 --> 01:05:59,89.005466 Today's methods are vastly better. 767 01:05:59,814.005466 --> 01:06:02,904.005466 The agency I work for, TDI SDI, don't teach tables anymore. 768 01:06:02,904.005466 --> 01:06:06,434.005466 And I think there's a bunch of other agencies that have followed suit. 769 01:06:06,544.005466 --> 01:06:11,714.006466 But some of the old schoolies amongst us, we remember tables with some fondness, but I'm. 770 01:06:12,399.007466 --> 01:06:13,559.007466 I don't miss them personally. 771 01:06:14,379.007466 --> 01:06:15,589.007466 I like diving computers. 772 01:06:15,609.007466 --> 01:06:15,849.007466 Yeah. 773 01:06:17,324.069966 --> 01:06:18,84.069966 I, I think. 774 01:06:19,89.069966 --> 01:06:25,369.069966 Actually, it was funny because when I was in Jamaica, there was a lady who was doing her open water course and she came over to it. 775 01:06:25,829.069966 --> 01:06:27,599.069966 She was on the same dive boat as we were. 776 01:06:27,599.069966 --> 01:06:33,489.069966 So later when she was doing her studying, she was going through it and she's Oh my God, I hope I don't have to do this. 777 01:06:34,249.007466 --> 01:06:34,599.007466 Yeah. 778 01:06:34,719.007466 --> 01:06:35,39.007466 Yeah. 779 01:06:35,379.007466 --> 01:06:35,669.007466 There is. 780 01:06:35,669.107466 --> 01:06:42,39.007466 I think one thing I would emphasize is not using tables doesn't excuse you from not doing dive planning. 781 01:06:42,529.007466 --> 01:06:49,769.007966 So you should, I always I use a deco planner and I'm always Making sure, in fact, I don't use multi deco, sorry. 782 01:06:49,979.007966 --> 01:06:53,539.007966 But it's a great piece of software and I plan every dive that I do. 783 01:06:53,549.007966 --> 01:07:04,408.907466 I'm going to go to this depth for this amount of time, and then I'll end up at this depth, and I'm making sure that I understand the deco obligation that would create before I get in the water and I'm understanding how much gas I need. 784 01:07:04,729.007466 --> 01:07:20,139.008466 And so gas planning and deco planning when you get to that level are really important as an open water ish diver, advanced open water before you do deco, I still think it's important to understand your no decompression limits and how long you can stay at particular depths before you do the dive. 785 01:07:21,709.070966 --> 01:07:24,349.008466 And what's that software called again? Multi deco. 786 01:07:25,239.070966 --> 01:07:26,589.008466 Multi Yeah, it's awesome. 787 01:07:26,619.070966 --> 01:07:28,479.070966 have Yeah, I'll have to check. 788 01:07:28,899.070966 --> 01:07:32,839.008466 What's the, do you know roughly what the cost on it is? it's pretty low. 789 01:07:32,839.008466 --> 01:07:36,459.008466 I think it's sub 100 and it's a lifetime license as well. 790 01:07:36,509.008466 --> 01:07:38,329.008466 And you can move it from computer to computer. 791 01:07:38,339.008466 --> 01:07:39,449.008466 It's a fantastic deal. 792 01:07:39,849.007466 --> 01:07:41,79.007466 And a very good piece of software. 793 01:07:41,129.006466 --> 01:07:41,419.006466 Yeah. 794 01:07:43,174.069966 --> 01:07:51,479.007466 Tell me about what kind of what kind of courses you got coming up Yeah I've got a little bit of guiding in workshoppy type stuff coming up. 795 01:07:51,489.007466 --> 01:07:56,979.007466 It's our summer season here and I own a coffee shop in a tourist area and we're about to from today. 796 01:07:56,979.007466 --> 01:07:58,379.007466 In fact, my team are there right now. 797 01:07:58,769.007466 --> 01:08:01,209.007466 We're about to be slammed by the summer season. 798 01:08:01,669.007466 --> 01:08:03,349.007466 Which is for us, fantastic. 799 01:08:03,389.007466 --> 01:08:08,9.007466 It's a really happy time and the weather's good and people like their coffee. 800 01:08:08,9.007466 --> 01:08:09,519.007466 And so it's it's a good deal for us. 801 01:08:09,519.007466 --> 01:08:10,949.006466 And we work really hard. 802 01:08:11,229.007466 --> 01:08:19,489.006466 We only get Christmas day off work every other day through the season and that kind of finishes on the second Monday of January. 803 01:08:19,599.006466 --> 01:08:20,609.006466 Everyone goes back to work. 804 01:08:21,99.006466 --> 01:08:25,219.007466 So I, at that point I have someone coming over from the UK. 805 01:08:25,334.007466 --> 01:08:27,494.007466 Who just reached out and wanted to dive with me. 806 01:08:27,494.007466 --> 01:08:35,14.006466 So I'm going to guide him on Canterbury and so give him a run around the wreck and buddy him and, give, show him a good time, hopefully. 807 01:08:35,24.006466 --> 01:08:36,164.005466 So that's happening in January. 808 01:08:36,164.006466 --> 01:08:41,394.005466 And then I probably will just do a little bit of my own diving in January, rest of the month. 809 01:08:41,434.006466 --> 01:08:47,624.006466 And then February, I've got a student coming over from Australia for a sidemount workshop, already trained. 810 01:08:47,624.006466 --> 01:08:48,684.006466 He wants to do a bit more. 811 01:08:49,39.006466 --> 01:08:55,809.006466 And that'll involve me taking him out and running through, fundamental skills and helping him with whatever he needs. 812 01:08:56,9.005466 --> 01:08:59,369.005466 So workshops are very much depending on the student requirements. 813 01:08:59,589.006466 --> 01:09:04,429.006466 And then again, we're going to go to Canterbury and give him a really cool dive on that afterwards so that it'll be fun. 814 01:09:05,249.005466 --> 01:09:11,979.006466 And then I've just got a few students pending, so I haven't set these courses up, but I'll set some courses up in March. 815 01:09:12,29.006466 --> 01:09:14,19.006466 March, April, I'm also going to Australia. 816 01:09:15,119.006466 --> 01:09:22,969.006466 And we'll be teaching a sidemount fundamentals course in the beautiful Killsby sinkhole in South Australia there. 817 01:09:23,9.006466 --> 01:09:26,669.005466 And we'll also do a sidemount workshop at the end of that before I do a week's cave diving. 818 01:09:27,199.005466 --> 01:09:28,969.005466 So that's going to be super cool. 819 01:09:29,339.005466 --> 01:09:34,439.005466 And then we're into our fall or autumn as we call it and winter. 820 01:09:34,439.005466 --> 01:09:36,929.005466 I imagine I'll try and set another couple of courses up. 821 01:09:36,929.005466 --> 01:09:38,559.005466 I don't run a lot of courses per year. 822 01:09:38,559.005466 --> 01:09:38,649.005466 Yeah. 823 01:09:38,649.105466 --> 01:09:38,713.905466 Bye bye. 824 01:09:39,4.005466 --> 01:09:44,164.005466 Probably five max, just cruise it alongside everything else I'm doing. 825 01:09:44,164.005466 --> 01:09:54,374.005466 And when I have students who are interested enough to want to pay me to teach them, then, I'm there I do it at my own pace and as and when I want to alongside my own diving. 826 01:09:54,374.005466 --> 01:09:58,434.005466 And of course, I've got responsibilities for the podcast speaking sidemount as well. 827 01:09:58,444.005466 --> 01:10:02,284.005466 So there's there's enough in there for me to keep me engaged and interested. 828 01:10:03,374.067966 --> 01:10:04,864.066966 I'm learning about that. 829 01:10:04,874.067966 --> 01:10:07,949.005466 How much there is involved in the podcast world yeah. 830 01:10:09,44.067966 --> 01:10:19,349.006466 So you actually have done a bunch of diving with Nick Vogel, right? From the off gassing I actually haven't Nick and I haven't dived together, but I did an episode with him and I hope we catch up sometime. 831 01:10:19,499.006466 --> 01:10:20,859.006966 We've crossed paths a bit. 832 01:10:20,889.006966 --> 01:10:25,889.006966 He's he's been to Sulawesi and dived with Robin Questa there and like Robin and I know each other. 833 01:10:26,209.006966 --> 01:10:31,569.006966 Through him being a guest and we dove with each other in Australia and then Nick was in Mexico as well. 834 01:10:31,569.006966 --> 01:10:36,329.006966 And we've crossed paths there, but without seeing each other or being there at the same time. 835 01:10:36,329.006966 --> 01:10:39,59.005966 So unfortunately, no, I'd love to dive with Nick. 836 01:10:39,59.006966 --> 01:10:45,29.006966 He's a very cool guy and and I've got a lot of respect for him and for his podcast as well, which is the, he does a great job on. 837 01:10:46,539.070466 --> 01:10:48,649.070466 Yeah, he's a really super cool guy. 838 01:10:48,679.070466 --> 01:10:53,189.070466 He's actually been helping me a lot over the last bit while I've been getting this stuff set up. 839 01:10:53,279.069466 --> 01:10:57,119.070466 And actually he's going to have me on his podcast coming up. 840 01:10:57,419.006966 --> 01:10:57,869.006966 Fantastic. 841 01:10:57,869.006966 --> 01:10:59,149.007966 Oh Nick is prolific. 842 01:10:59,419.007966 --> 01:11:01,669.007966 Like I'm a solid one episode a month guy. 843 01:11:02,104.007966 --> 01:11:06,834.007966 Because I just cannot fit more in around my diving and my coffee shop and everything else I've got going on. 844 01:11:06,834.007966 --> 01:11:09,694.007966 But he seems to smack them out one a week. 845 01:11:10,124.007966 --> 01:11:12,164.007966 Which I remember in the beginning, I did do that. 846 01:11:12,174.007966 --> 01:11:13,604.007966 I was doing one a week for a while. 847 01:11:13,604.007966 --> 01:11:16,244.007966 And then it was just like, look, this is untenable. 848 01:11:16,334.007966 --> 01:11:20,264.005966 Certainly for me, it was at the time and things have come along a lot since then. 849 01:11:20,414.006966 --> 01:11:23,724.006966 I don't know what you're using for editing, but I'm using Riverside now. 850 01:11:23,724.006966 --> 01:11:29,594.006966 And what used to take me two weeks of editing, I can now do in a couple of hours. 851 01:11:29,994.006966 --> 01:11:38,649.069466 So that's been a real winner for me, but yeah, it's, Which yeah, I'm actually using Squadcast and Descript for this. 852 01:11:39,194.069466 --> 01:11:44,984.069466 Um, which actually, is a huge help, especially with my hand right now and doing stuff. 853 01:11:45,24.069466 --> 01:11:46,844.069466 It's way easier to edit. 854 01:11:46,984.069466 --> 01:11:57,214.169466 Actually, for any disabled person, AI has got a lot of benefits to it as far as, Yeah not only that, I have ADHD and a learning disability. 855 01:11:57,214.169466 --> 01:12:02,794.169466 If I had to sit there and try and manually edit episodes, it would drive me nuts before the first one launched. 856 01:12:02,969.106966 --> 01:12:03,249.106966 Yeah. 857 01:12:03,249.106966 --> 01:12:03,589.106966 Yeah. 858 01:12:03,589.106966 --> 01:12:03,839.106966 Yeah. 859 01:12:04,129.106966 --> 01:12:04,389.106966 Yeah. 860 01:12:04,389.106966 --> 01:12:06,399.106966 But I 100 percent understand. 861 01:12:06,399.106966 --> 01:12:06,679.106966 Yeah. 862 01:12:06,679.106966 --> 01:12:12,939.106966 And I just remember myself, I would, it would take me about for every kind of minutes of content. 863 01:12:12,949.106966 --> 01:12:16,239.105966 It would probably take me 2 to 3, 4 minutes to edit it. 864 01:12:16,519.105966 --> 01:12:22,579.106966 And so I could only, I'd sit down and do 10 minute bursts at a time before I'd have to get up and walk around for a bit. 865 01:12:22,629.106966 --> 01:12:25,259.106966 And so that was, it was really very annoying. 866 01:12:25,259.106966 --> 01:12:26,69.106966 And I agree with you. 867 01:12:26,119.106966 --> 01:12:54,709.005466 AI is I, am I afraid of AI? Of course, I think we should be, but am I enjoying having chat GPT at my fingertips and being able to automatically press a button and remove all the ums and ahs and remove all the filler words and remove all the silences, just pressing a button and having show notes produced for me? And Oh my God, so I'm before, before we wiped out by the AI robots robot warriors with that come I'm enjoying everything that comes with it. 868 01:12:54,769.005466 --> 01:13:00,299.005466 So when you are, So you only do certain amounts of training courses a year. 869 01:13:00,909.005466 --> 01:13:06,848.942966 Um, and then how many dives do you average a year usually? usually between 1 and 200. 870 01:13:06,888.942966 --> 01:13:08,418.942966 So it's not massive. 871 01:13:08,628.942966 --> 01:13:11,688.942966 And I have kind of bursts where I'm doing a lot. 872 01:13:12,58.941966 --> 01:13:18,298.942966 But one of the challenges that I've personally had is I chose to live in a place called Doubtless Bay, which is absolutely beautiful. 873 01:13:18,708.941966 --> 01:13:23,748.942966 And there's a lot of people here with boats, but they all go out fishing, and if they're diving, they're hunting. 874 01:13:23,748.942966 --> 01:13:28,358.942966 And I've chosen, along with some of my colleagues for environmental reasons, not to hunt anymore. 875 01:13:28,948.942966 --> 01:13:31,538.942966 I do fish from time to time, but not that much. 876 01:13:31,838.942966 --> 01:13:45,458.941966 I struggle to get out of my local area here and I've recently befriended one of the local fishing charter guys, awesome guy, and he takes me out and drops me off the back of his boat while they fish and I go off and have a great time on my own, this is a solo diving. 877 01:13:45,778.942966 --> 01:14:06,828.943466 And more recently, I just dived earlier in December with him and I, they were just on a pinnacle and I jumped on the pinnacle and at eight meters off the side of the wall there was this kind of fish soup of this endemic species called blue malmal here and with damasels and others going around it and I've just got this footage from the 360 degree camera of me going through this fish storm almost. 878 01:14:06,828.943466 --> 01:14:08,358.843466 It's absolutely classic. 879 01:14:08,358.943466 --> 01:14:10,508.943466 So the diving here locally to me is amazing. 880 01:14:10,528.943466 --> 01:14:13,938.943466 There is a shore dive that I teach quite a lot about 20 minutes away. 881 01:14:14,378.943466 --> 01:14:26,968.942966 So I'm diving more myself and that lets me go out every week, but before that, I was able to go out with the operators who are about one to two hours south of me and go out perhaps once a month with each of them. 882 01:14:26,968.942966 --> 01:14:29,708.942466 So that would, That was a little bit slower. 883 01:14:29,708.942466 --> 01:14:33,728.942466 And then I'd have bursts where I'd go overseas, either, Mount Gambier or elsewhere. 884 01:14:33,728.942466 --> 01:14:35,898.942466 And yeah, you dive every day during those. 885 01:14:36,138.941466 --> 01:14:37,238.943466 So that's how it's going. 886 01:14:37,238.943466 --> 01:14:39,208.943466 So that's where the kind of 1 to 200 comes. 887 01:14:39,208.943466 --> 01:14:42,238.943466 I'd like to be much more consistent and diving every week. 888 01:14:42,978.943466 --> 01:14:46,218.942466 And I think I'm going to be able to pull that off over this year. 889 01:14:46,848.943466 --> 01:14:47,998.943466 And that would be one of my goals. 890 01:14:47,998.943466 --> 01:14:51,68.943466 I think for the year would be to be in the water more. 891 01:14:51,69.043466 --> 01:14:56,509.005966 I'd Now let's talk about I want to talk a bit about diveheart. 892 01:14:56,559.005966 --> 01:15:03,89.005966 org, which is an organization that I'm helping support and bring awareness to through my podcast. 893 01:15:03,819.005966 --> 01:15:07,809.005966 And these guys do amazing work with people's disabilities. 894 01:15:07,819.005966 --> 01:15:09,409.005966 You checked out any of their videos. 895 01:15:10,119.005966 --> 01:15:12,178.943466 Would you email him? Send me a link and I'll have a look. 896 01:15:13,289.005966 --> 01:15:13,639.005966 I will. 897 01:15:13,669.005966 --> 01:15:14,509.005966 Absolutely. 898 01:15:14,529.005966 --> 01:15:15,829.005966 These guys are incredible. 899 01:15:15,829.005966 --> 01:15:20,679.005966 He has guys that are doing that are full paraplegics that are diving. 900 01:15:21,159.005966 --> 01:15:24,419.005966 It's unbelievable and quadriplegics. 901 01:15:24,489.005966 --> 01:15:26,199.005966 It's unbelievable. 902 01:15:26,229.004966 --> 01:15:30,309.004966 The wide variety of disabilities that he's working with. 903 01:15:30,934.004966 --> 01:15:32,494.004966 and having them dive. 904 01:15:32,744.004966 --> 01:15:34,194.004966 I'm actually hoping to train. 905 01:15:34,254.004966 --> 01:15:37,264.004966 I'm going to be training as a dive buddy. 906 01:15:37,264.004966 --> 01:15:52,129.004966 So I'm hoping to actually help them out at some point just to get to be dive with all these guys because Good for me being able to see another adaptive diver who's got More disabilities kicking my butt and doing like cave diving and stuff. 907 01:15:52,183.942466 --> 01:15:52,493.942466 Yeah. 908 01:15:52,493.942466 --> 01:15:53,173.942466 Fantastic. 909 01:15:54,383.942466 --> 01:15:55,563.942466 Now, it sounds amazing. 910 01:15:55,773.942466 --> 01:16:08,543.940466 The only sort of brush I've had with that, I did an episode with Chris Dawson a while back about diving it was basically around mental health and the impact of, or the positive impact of scuba diving on, people who are suffering from depression. 911 01:16:08,843.940466 --> 01:16:23,693.940466 In particular, and PTSD, he was a veteran and so he is a veteran and so and suffered pretty badly for a long time and it had a major impact on his life and diving was part of the success story of him coming out of it. 912 01:16:24,63.940466 --> 01:16:29,673.939466 Yeah, I've done a little bit with the mental health side, but not really so much with the actual, to say physically disabled divers. 913 01:16:29,673.939466 --> 01:16:31,633.939466 So that yeah, super interesting. 914 01:16:32,889.001966 --> 01:16:44,759.003966 Yeah, I've struggled with disabilities with a depression for years after being disabled, My wife and my friends cannot believe the difference in me in the last year just since i've started diving. 915 01:16:45,349.003966 --> 01:16:47,699.003966 It's Completely changed my life. 916 01:16:47,729.003966 --> 01:16:56,528.941466 I was You Living in a bigger rut than I even realized, Yeah, isn't it amazing? I find it with divers anyhow. 917 01:16:56,568.941466 --> 01:17:11,978.942466 Maybe it's just the ones I hang out with, but what a passionate group we are, what a group of people who have an interest that I guess it absorbs you and it gives you something to, I wouldn't say live for, but it gives you something to look forward to, you'll look forward to your next dive. 918 01:17:11,978.942466 --> 01:17:13,778.942466 You can spend some time playing with your equipment. 919 01:17:13,778.942466 --> 01:17:18,778.942466 This is where sidemount's great because you're always playing with your equipment, right? That gives you something to do while you're out of the water. 920 01:17:18,778.942466 --> 01:17:18,818.942466 Yeah. 921 01:17:19,183.942466 --> 01:17:25,964.004966 And I think that's part of the battle is just giving you something that you can focus on that takes your mind away Take some knowledge away. 922 01:17:26,473.942466 --> 01:17:30,383.942466 side of, if things aren't going great, for whatever reason, you can focus on this. 923 01:17:30,673.942466 --> 01:17:35,83.942466 And I promise you when you're in the water, you cannot think of anything out of the water. 924 01:17:35,513.941466 --> 01:17:42,283.941466 Try it someday, try and be in the water and think about the shopping list or what you've got to do at home or the troubles of your day or whatever. 925 01:17:42,323.941466 --> 01:17:42,953.941466 You can't do it. 926 01:17:42,953.941466 --> 01:17:43,583.941466 It's impossible. 927 01:17:44,378.941466 --> 01:17:49,708.941466 So all you can focus on is the environment you're in and, the equipment and what you're doing. 928 01:17:50,128.941466 --> 01:17:51,458.941466 And I, that's awesome. 929 01:17:51,618.940466 --> 01:17:53,78.941466 That's the awesome part about diving. 930 01:17:53,78.941466 --> 01:17:57,18.940466 And then you get out of the water and hopefully it's been great and such a buzz. 931 01:17:57,248.941466 --> 01:18:02,338.940966 And then all you want to do is talk to your buddies about your dive and about their dive and have a beer maybe. 932 01:18:02,338.940966 --> 01:18:05,588.941466 And, I'm a strong upright diver guy, after diving. 933 01:18:05,963.941466 --> 01:18:20,733.940466 We'll have a beer and a chat and talk, talk all night about diving and what we're going to do next and what we want to do and how we can be better and and if you have a bad dive, you have to fix that, right? So you have to fix the stuff that causes bad diving, which is usually, more practice or whatever. 934 01:18:20,733.940466 --> 01:18:21,663.941466 Sometimes things go wrong. 935 01:18:21,663.941466 --> 01:18:41,764.003966 I've been advised where things go wrong, but even then you come out of it pretty fast, so With me, I had, when I started diving up here again this year, I went from a pool session, In Cozumel to doing my refresher in a pool up here And then because i'm 55 and a wimp. 936 01:18:41,824.003966 --> 01:18:42,824.003966 I was like, okay. 937 01:18:42,824.003966 --> 01:18:48,293.940466 I'm only diving dry suit up here I you know and all this stuff that's not a wimp in Canada, man. 938 01:18:48,293.941466 --> 01:18:48,343.941466 Okay. 939 01:18:51,338.941466 --> 01:18:54,528.941466 If anybody, it's true you don't have a wetsuit in Canada. 940 01:18:54,578.941466 --> 01:18:55,148.941466 You're not tough. 941 01:18:55,168.941466 --> 01:18:55,798.941466 You're crazy. 942 01:18:56,804.003966 --> 01:18:59,234.003966 I Actually surprisingly enough. 943 01:18:59,264.003966 --> 01:19:05,964.003966 There's a spot that we go in toga mori that I decided Before I did my first dive up here again. 944 01:19:05,964.003966 --> 01:19:09,49.003966 I said, okay You First dive I'm doing, no ifs, ands, or buts. 945 01:19:09,99.003966 --> 01:19:22,199.003966 I'm going to go with the Tug in Tobermory because it's a shore dive, it's literally 50 feet from the shore and 5 feet of water up to my chest is the first shipwreck, and all three of the shipwrecks are within 15 feet. 946 01:19:22,929.003966 --> 01:19:36,159.002966 So I would always go there to test because that way, if something went wrong with my equipment, if I had to scratch it from doing whatever and get some more parts, at least I was going to be a shipwreck, see a shipwreck. 947 01:19:36,789.003966 --> 01:19:39,939.003466 And that was enough motivation to get me back in the water. 948 01:19:39,939.003466 --> 01:19:43,643.903966 And it didn't matter how much issues I had with it. 949 01:19:44,534.003966 --> 01:19:45,934.003966 Yeah it's it's amazing. 950 01:19:45,944.003966 --> 01:19:47,814.003966 And not only that, I'm in less pain. 951 01:19:48,514.003966 --> 01:19:55,834.004966 The amount of guys I talk to that have chronic pain, that have relief from diving is unbelievable. 952 01:19:55,834.004966 --> 01:20:01,169.0664659 mean, I, for sure, it's amazing for chronic pain. 953 01:20:01,594.004966 --> 01:20:01,864.004966 Wow. 954 01:20:02,24.004966 --> 01:20:03,184.004466 I wonder if, I wonder what that is. 955 01:20:03,184.004466 --> 01:20:05,324.004466 I wonder if it's the load being taken away. 956 01:20:05,324.004466 --> 01:20:08,654.003966 There is a thing, hyperbaric treatment for injury and that sort of thing. 957 01:20:08,654.003966 --> 01:20:13,104.004466 So I wonder whether there's the pressure impact or whether it's just the load being taken away. 958 01:20:14,274.0669659 --> 01:20:22,634.003966 It is both actually, because I've been talking a lot with Jim Elliott from Diveheart, Works with a lot of guys from a bunch of major hospitals in the U. 959 01:20:22,634.003966 --> 01:20:23,4.003966 S. 960 01:20:23,204.003966 --> 01:20:28,354.003966 and diving doctors, and they're actually in the process of building a 150 foot deep pool. 961 01:20:29,24.003966 --> 01:20:33,124.003966 When they raise the money for it, it will be the largest indoor training pool in the world. 962 01:20:33,814.003966 --> 01:20:36,154.003966 And it's a really awesome design. 963 01:20:36,154.003966 --> 01:20:37,654.002966 Check it out on their website. 964 01:20:38,84.003966 --> 01:20:43,974.002966 But the reason that they're doing it that deep is because the medical benefits from it, from diving. 965 01:20:44,544.002966 --> 01:20:49,914.002466 And, They've found that at about 60 feet, you start getting relief from pain. 966 01:20:51,34.002466 --> 01:20:54,614.002466 And it's, I'm, I can absolutely vouch for that. 967 01:20:56,243.939966 --> 01:20:57,243.839966 Yeah, I can. 968 01:20:57,243.839966 --> 01:20:58,203.839966 I can only imagine. 969 01:20:58,203.839966 --> 01:21:03,423.839966 Yeah, I'm training for a high rocks race at the moment and I'm injured, and here I am. 970 01:21:03,423.839966 --> 01:21:07,823.838966 I've got a calf strain on one leg and a hamstring strain in the other leg and shoulder arthritis. 971 01:21:07,823.839966 --> 01:21:10,163.838966 And I'm feeling a little sorry for myself. 972 01:21:10,393.838966 --> 01:21:16,733.837966 But yeah, it's It's nothing compared to, what you're going through and what others go through, so I need to harden up clearly. 973 01:21:20,88.900466 --> 01:21:22,78.900466 Hey, believe me it's really good. 974 01:21:22,318.900466 --> 01:21:30,918.901466 I cannot wait to this summer until I get to go help Hubert out just because of the guys that I'm going to get to meet that he trains. 975 01:21:31,548.901466 --> 01:21:34,308.901466 Because that's going to be phenomenal for me. 976 01:21:34,308.901466 --> 01:21:37,108.901466 It's going to, okay, I have no excuse not to do that. 977 01:21:37,283.838966 --> 01:21:38,423.838966 Yes, exactly. 978 01:21:38,673.838966 --> 01:21:39,803.838966 Yeah, gotcha. 979 01:21:40,968.901466 --> 01:21:42,828.901466 Which the big, huge positive of it. 980 01:21:42,878.901466 --> 01:21:46,898.901466 It's the benefits of diving are immeasurable. 981 01:21:47,308.900466 --> 01:21:55,288.900466 I absolutely, the whole point of my podcast is so that I can raise awareness of people diving with disabilities. 982 01:21:55,808.900466 --> 01:21:57,628.900466 Hopefully this takes off. 983 01:21:57,738.900466 --> 01:22:03,568.900466 I'll be able to spend my time helping these guys train because that's what I would absolutely love to do. 984 01:22:03,653.837966 --> 01:22:06,913.837966 Yeah, I would imagine you'll have a really good audience as well. 985 01:22:06,923.838966 --> 01:22:13,463.839466 My audience is incredibly niche and they're very rabid and very engaged, but it's a small sidemount cave diving audience. 986 01:22:13,753.840466 --> 01:22:15,473.840466 There's a lot of disabled people out there. 987 01:22:16,118.840466 --> 01:22:18,808.840466 And you've got a much, much bigger potential audience. 988 01:22:19,98.840466 --> 01:22:22,958.839966 And then back to the personal thing, I'm just reflecting on what I'm hearing from you. 989 01:22:22,958.839966 --> 01:22:25,598.838966 What a great way to help yourself by helping other people. 990 01:22:26,178.839966 --> 01:22:27,728.841466 It's there's nothing like that, I think. 991 01:22:28,913.903966 --> 01:22:38,683.903966 Not only that this podcast has taken it to a whole nother level just with the people I've met over the last month while I've been doing this. 992 01:22:38,693.903966 --> 01:22:39,593.903966 It's been incredible. 993 01:22:39,593.903966 --> 01:22:45,143.902966 I've talked to people who John Chatterton, he was my first interview, going to be the first episode. 994 01:22:45,633.902966 --> 01:22:50,653.902966 I've talked to him, Jill, Gary Gentile is going to be on and the list goes on. 995 01:22:51,293.902966 --> 01:22:56,523.902966 So For me, just to be able to interact with those guys and talk with those guys is incredible. 996 01:22:57,238.902966 --> 01:23:00,818.902966 Yeah, actually I want to I have very fond memories of training with John as well. 997 01:23:00,818.902966 --> 01:23:09,358.902466 I don't know him well, but I spent a really, how many days was it? Four days with him, I think doing my advanced rec training and in Florida. 998 01:23:09,368.902466 --> 01:23:13,248.901466 And it was fun, and such a cool experience hanging out with him. 999 01:23:13,708.901466 --> 01:23:16,158.901466 They'll tell stories of his stories. 1000 01:23:16,498.901466 --> 01:23:21,938.901466 This, if you train with John, you're sitting in the classroom and there'll be another story and he makes his points. 1001 01:23:22,253.901466 --> 01:23:26,83.901466 through stories and usually somebody dies, it's like, it's pretty compelling. 1002 01:23:26,473.901466 --> 01:23:40,403.902966 And I remember that very fondly and very cool guy to dive with and and train with, and different to, cause he's a real wreck diver, commercial background wreck diver, as opposed to most of the guys that I train with caves, slant technical divers. 1003 01:23:40,403.902966 --> 01:23:44,218.802966 So different angle, and it's good to have those different experiences, I think. 1004 01:23:45,333.902966 --> 01:23:45,783.902966 Oh yeah. 1005 01:23:45,783.902966 --> 01:23:47,603.902966 And john's an amazing guy. 1006 01:23:47,603.902966 --> 01:23:57,953.901966 I, we talk back and forth in text all the time and I definitely am planning on eventually going down and getting some deep training from him to do it. 1007 01:23:58,293.902966 --> 01:24:02,223.902966 He was one of the ones that inspired one of the three people that inspired me in the diving. 1008 01:24:04,238.902966 --> 01:24:09,338.902966 For me just to get, to meet him and to talk to him and stuff like, that's amazing. 1009 01:24:09,338.902966 --> 01:24:12,368.902966 But to get to dive with him is going to be absolutely incredible. 1010 01:24:12,878.902966 --> 01:24:13,188.902966 Yeah. 1011 01:24:13,448.902966 --> 01:24:13,598.902966 Yeah. 1012 01:24:13,598.902966 --> 01:24:14,258.902966 It's quite funny. 1013 01:24:14,258.902966 --> 01:24:18,28.902966 I got hold of John when I was researching Shearwater computers. 1014 01:24:18,28.902966 --> 01:24:22,258.901966 So I was trying to I was trying out what computers should I buy? And he had this very cool. 1015 01:24:22,468.902966 --> 01:24:24,738.902966 This is the equipment I dive list on his website. 1016 01:24:25,18.902966 --> 01:24:26,28.902966 I'm not sure if it's still there. 1017 01:24:26,268.902966 --> 01:24:27,478.902466 And he had Shearwater computers. 1018 01:24:27,478.902466 --> 01:24:30,108.902966 And then I keep looking at his website and you could do courses with it. 1019 01:24:31,388.902966 --> 01:24:31,858.902966 Wow. 1020 01:24:32,163.902966 --> 01:24:33,543.902966 You can do a course with John Chatterton. 1021 01:24:33,563.902966 --> 01:24:35,73.902966 I thought, all right, sign me up. 1022 01:24:35,73.902966 --> 01:24:37,113.902966 I'm living in San Jose, California at the time. 1023 01:24:37,413.902966 --> 01:24:38,403.902966 So I thought, yeah, I'm going. 1024 01:24:38,453.902966 --> 01:24:40,493.903966 So flew over and and did the course. 1025 01:24:40,493.903966 --> 01:24:46,653.902966 So yeah, it was, I was a little surprised that he was teaching, I don't know why, but I was, so yeah, very cool. 1026 01:24:47,818.903966 --> 01:24:50,248.903966 I di I didn't even know he talked till this year. 1027 01:24:50,978.903966 --> 01:24:56,918.903966 When I was looking into this, actually the first time I spoke to him was I actually just messaged him on Facebook. 1028 01:24:58,78.903966 --> 01:25:03,318.903966 It was actually in the middle of the last big hurricane they had in Florida and he was waiting for the storm to hit. 1029 01:25:03,319.003966 --> 01:25:04,754.004966 I was like, yeah, I'm not doing anything. 1030 01:25:04,954.004966 --> 01:25:05,714.004966 We can chat. 1031 01:25:07,214.004966 --> 01:25:14,514.004466 And I was asking him about sidemount stuff because that was before I decided to into doing sidemount and to get his opinion on it. 1032 01:25:14,684.004466 --> 01:25:15,444.004466 Yeah, I don't know. 1033 01:25:15,474.004466 --> 01:25:16,854.004466 Actually, I'm interested in what he says. 1034 01:25:16,854.004466 --> 01:25:18,184.004466 He's he doesn't dive sidemount. 1035 01:25:18,204.004466 --> 01:25:25,884.004466 Clearly, he's a backmount diver, but he was very, I did my course and I, and sidemount with him and he, we had another sidemount diver here and he buddied us together. 1036 01:25:25,924.003466 --> 01:25:33,824.004466 So he was very open to it not opposed to us doing it, provided we could manage our shit in and out of the water and in the water. 1037 01:25:33,874.004466 --> 01:25:35,504.004466 That was what he was most concerned about. 1038 01:25:35,924.004466 --> 01:25:38,524.004466 I had us lay all our gear out to show him how it worked and everything. 1039 01:25:38,524.004466 --> 01:25:39,194.004466 So he understood. 1040 01:25:39,194.004466 --> 01:25:42,264.004466 But apart from that, he was very, I appreciated how open he was. 1041 01:25:42,264.004466 --> 01:25:46,4.005466 I was wondering whether I was going to have a battle there, cause I was diving sidemount no matter what. 1042 01:25:46,84.005466 --> 01:25:49,484.005466 And then you can just imagine banging heads with John Chatterton and like how that's going to go down. 1043 01:25:49,484.005466 --> 01:25:51,274.003966 But thankfully we didn't go there. 1044 01:25:52,614.004966 --> 01:25:57,754.004966 I know he prefers diving doubles Yes, over sidemount for sure. 1045 01:25:58,384.004966 --> 01:26:02,54.004966 But yeah he's an amazing guy, amazing person to talk to. 1046 01:26:02,104.004966 --> 01:26:05,304.004966 Anyhow thank you very much for your time today. 1047 01:26:05,369.003966 --> 01:26:06,29.003966 you're welcome. 1048 01:26:06,54.004966 --> 01:26:07,504.004966 Greatly appreciated. 1049 01:26:07,604.004966 --> 01:26:09,624.003966 It's been awesome to have you on. 1050 01:26:10,104.004966 --> 01:26:22,894.004966 I will make sure that I put all the links are down below so you can check it out and, make sure everybody that you like and subscribe and, donate and check out the Deadfoot Diver podcast next week. 1051 01:26:23,494.004966 --> 01:26:24,24.004966 Thanks a lot.

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