May 16, 2025 • 27 mins
In this insightful episode of 'Demystifying the Transgender Journey,' host Lynn Murphy delves into the complexities of supporting transgender loved ones with transition mentor Wendy Cole. Wendy, who transitioned at the age of 67, generously shares her personal journey and offers invaluable advice to parents and families on how to unconditionally accept and support their transgender children. She demystifies common misconceptions, highlights the importance of psychological support, and stresses the need for parents to educate themselves and stand up for their children in the face of societal stigmas. Wendy also discusses her coaching programs designed to help families navigate these transitions with empathy and understanding. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation aimed at fostering acceptance and love in every family.
For more information visit:
https://www.facebook.com/thetransgenderjourney
https://www.youtube.com/@thetransgenderjourney
00:00 Introduction and Host Welcome
01:13 Meet Wendy Cole: A Transition Mentor's Journey
02:28 Challenges Faced by Transgender Youth and Families
05:19 Advice for Parents of Transgender Children
09:14 Medical Interventions and Family Dynamics
13:37 Maintaining Relationships and Support Systems
21:53 Wendy Cole's Coaching Programs
26:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Wendy (00:00):
One of the other things I like to encourage, really need to do some work on
(00:05):
how you feel about your child yourself.
Do you love them without anyreference whatsoever to gender
Lynn (00:14):
and that work would help with the psychiatrists,
Wendy (00:16):
definitely.
That's where a therapist and apsychiatrist come into the picture.
. Family transitions withthe child, that's a given.
Lynn (00:26):
What do you really know about people who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and the professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
(00:46):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website.
The transgender journey.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
Welcome.
I'm your host Lynn Murphy and I amdelighted to see you here today.
I am the founder of the Women Who Pushthe Limits Movement, and the author
(01:07):
of Women Who Push the Limits presents50 life lessons from Inspiring Women.
I interviewed 50 very, very inspiringwomen, and today I'm continuing with my
interviews of the amazing Wendy Cole,who is a transition mentor and at the
age of 67, transitioned to living thelife that she knew she always was, living
(01:31):
her life as the woman that she was born.
Wendy, thank you for being here todayand for continuing our conversations.
We've been having suchamazing conversations.
Wendy (01:42):
Oh yes, we have, and I've completely enjoyed
all of our time together.
It's been amazing.
It really has, and we've covered somany really good topics in depth.
Lynn (01:54):
We have more topics to cover today.
So for our listeners, if you haven'tlistened to our previous episodes with
Wendy, be sure and and find those onyour favorite podcast or on YouTube.
And today, Wendy, we were gonnatalk about parents and families
and . People who are surroundingtransgender youth or even adults.
(02:16):
. And I know you've got a program thatyou're working with with parents.
Yes.
Tell us a little about that and why that'simportant that we understand that piece.
Well,
Wendy (02:28):
one of the phenomenon that has happened, I don't know exactly when it
started, but it's been building probablyfor the last 10 years as young teens.
20 somethings come out to their familiesas being transgender and feeling that
(02:50):
they're in the wrong body, or there's someother aspect of them that's different.
It's a lot of parents that have throwntheir children out of the house.
Lynn (03:00):
Oh, how sad.
Wendy (03:03):
It is sad, it's kind of horrific.
Homeless problem, as I understand it fromsomeone I know in , lives and works as
a psychologist with the trans communityin LA said that the vast majority of
the homeless problem in la, are transteens really that's the majority,
Lynn (03:24):
and you put teens on the street like that and they don't have life skills.
They don't have resource.
Wendy (03:31):
Exactly.
And he told me that, , itused to be the parents threw
their kids out for being gay.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, being gay now is socially a littlebit more acceptable, so parents don't
throw their kids out so much for that.
But when a boy walks up to his parentsand says, I really am, , a girl and
(03:52):
I'm gonna start living a more femininelifestyle, and they immediately just.
Recoil at that, , and
Lynn (04:01):
that's what you did.
That's what happened toyou when you were 10.
. That's what we've talked about before.
Wendy (04:06):
Yep.
So my message to parents along thoselines are, if you're child, and I use
the word child to mean the relationshipwith a parent, not their age.
What I'm saying applies toa child regardless of age.
(04:27):
So it could be an adult child.
Exactly.
I've had clients who were in theirfifties that were as afraid to
tell their parents as I was at 10.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't matter whatthe age is, the social.
Stigma of all of this and our societalnorms have stigmatized it to a point where
(04:52):
even somebody in their fifties or sixtiesis afraid to tell, tell an older parent.
Lynn (04:57):
They get that 50 years of relationship that they've built and.
It really doesn't matter
Wendy (05:03):
what age the person is, it's the relationship and it takes a lot of courage
for some child to tell their parent thatthey're really a boy or they're really
a girl and they're going to change.
Lynn (05:19):
So what advice do you have for parents around this?
Wendy (05:23):
First of all, believe 'em.
It.
It's not something that they're goingto joke about, not just for attention.
My next advice is make sure you getpsychological help with a good therapist
for your child and also for yourself.
This is not a choice.
It's not a life choice.
(05:44):
It's never going to go away.
This is how we're wired.
My other message to parentsis Get over yourself.
You didn't cause this, it.
You did nothing wrong.
Mm-hmm.
These are all the places whereparents' mind starts to go,
Hmm, what did we do wrong?
(06:06):
, What can we do to fix this best?
And really only thing a parentcan do is totally and completely
accept their child for who they are.
Acceptance without any conditions.
Acceptance withoutneeding to understand why.
Well, where did we go wrong?
And all of those types of debates.
(06:28):
That's not the issue.
The issue is really the child.
And by parents accepting them forwho they are, bracing them for
who they are and supporting them.
They're going to go through thisprocess so much easier and actually
(06:50):
be more comfortable in their life.
In their life and growing.
Everything as a result of that support.
They're not being looked down on.
They're not being told thatthey will forget all about this.
When they have a normal life,they'll forget all about this.
(07:10):
No, that didn't work for me.
It hasn't worked for anyoneelse I know, and it won't work.
Lynn (07:17):
So give us some examples , of actual things that they can do physically,
emotionally, to let their kids knowthat they support them, that they accept
them, even if they don't understand them.
Wendy (07:27):
First of all, learn all about transgender and what it really is, not
the stuff that you hear on the news,not the stuff that's put out by the
politicians and the religious peopleabout how we're all pedophiles, sex
fiends, all of this stuff that's crazy.
It's educate themselves about all of this.
(07:50):
The other thing is learn how to talkabout your child and explain it to
other people as succinctly as possible,and show other people like your
neighbors, your relatives, your friends,who all ultimately wind up finding
(08:11):
out about this, explain it to them.
As succinctly and clearly as youcan and come off as accepting and
totally supportive of your child.
What that's going to do is set the stagewith them that, oh, you're okay with
(08:31):
this and you're going to help your child.
So that will alleviate alot of the hostilities or.
Are really nasty things that peoplecan say to a child or to a parent.
Lynn (08:47):
So the parents could protect the child more from
people saying terrible things.
If the parent standsup for the child, then
Wendy (08:55):
exactly what you're
Lynn (08:56):
saying.
So yes.
And even if they have to lose friends,lose relatives, whatever it takes.
Wendy (09:02):
Right.
In a lot of cases, they probably won'tlose that many people out of their,
, lives because again, most people havenever come into contact with this.
So, , here we go with, , parentswho are now faced with this
life change that their child is.
, Facing and besides educating themselvesof embracing their child, fully
(09:29):
supporting their child, it's importantthat they get involved with a therapist.
Don't make it something thatyou feel is weird and abnormal.
That may be what the parent is feeling.
That's why I encourage parentsto get help for themselves, to
(09:50):
understand this and to get through it.
Family dynamics.
The family roles, they're gonna change.
I. That's the otherbig thing that happens.
'cause as this person begins to transitionto their gender that they believe
is them, once they start that wholetransition process, things that they do
(10:12):
every day, , things that they do withinthe family will also begin to change.
There will be things that theyno longer have interest in doing.
There will be new things thatthey are expecting to do.
Again, you're becoming a newperson within the family.
Lynn (10:31):
So then , the family needs to speak to them differently.
Maybe a different name,
Wendy (10:37):
different pronouns, different name, completely different pronouns,,
completely different appearance.
That's gonna change.
It can't help but change.
Lynn (10:45):
So allowing them to do what they feel like doing.
Being the person that they are.
Wendy (10:51):
Right.
Lynn (10:52):
And this is all before any medical treatment other than the
psychiatry or psychology work.
Wendy (10:58):
Right.
I really believe that until someonehits your age where they're independent
of parents medical intervention suchas surgeries or anything like that,
I don't feel should be considered.
Lynn (11:15):
What about
Wendy (11:16):
the puberty blockers?
That used to be fairly controversial.
I feel right nowthat , it's perfectly fine.
It has to do with the surgery techniques.
It used to be that there's a questionas to whether or not there would be
enough skin, enough tissue, enoughdevelopment down there to actually
go from male to female and createa new neo vagina, whereas nowadays.
(11:41):
If the puberty blockers are takenand that development doesn't happen,
they have surgery techniques nowwhere they harvest the peritoneum
tissue that's inside the body.
Mm-hmm.
They can harvest that, it grows back.
Lynn (11:58):
Mm-hmm.
And
Wendy (11:59):
that's what they use to create the vagina.
Lynn (12:01):
So it seems like it would depend on the age when they start giving
them puberty blockers or not, becausethe puberty blockers have been used.
Not just for people who are transsexual,but if girls are starting to menstruate
too early, those types of things.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
They've been using them for yearswith that, and that hasn't, I don't
(12:23):
think that's been controversial.
Wendy (12:25):
No, it hasn't.
Lynn (12:26):
So now it's controversial.
Wendy (12:29):
Now it's controversial.
So , it's a delicate balance with parents.
And one of the other things that, , Ilike to encourage is you basically
really need to do some work on howyou feel about your child yourself.
Do you love them without anyreference whatsoever to gender?
Lynn (12:52):
That work would help with the psychiatrists.
Wendy (12:55):
Definitely.
That's where a therapist and apsychiatrist come into the picture.
Mm-hmm.
Family transitions with the child.
That's a given.
I. That makes a lot of sense.
And if the family doesn't go through thatprocess as well, that's when you wind
up getting to a point where you throwyour kid out on the street and you don't
(13:17):
have anything further to do with them.
Or if they're older, they're in theirtwenties, they're thirties, forties,
whatever, and you're the type ofparent who is not going to accept
this at all and actually be hurtful.
You're gonna drive thechild away, whatever.
(13:37):
They're gonna go on and do what they needto do, and that relationship is broken.
And so if that's what a parentwants, then doing anything less than
complete and unconditional acceptancewill lead to a broken family.
Lynn (13:55):
Well give us some examples of things not to say or not to do.
That could be really hurtful evenwhether, whether or not they're.
Willing to accept the childat whatever point, right?
There may be some things that,that we can alert parents to not
do because it may make it harder tohang on to that good relationship.
Wendy (14:17):
Well, as I've said in other situations, at age 10, I was threatened
with being committed and fixed, andthat's definitely a wrong approach.
Lynn (14:28):
You don't threaten electro shock therapy.
Exactly.
Wendy (14:31):
I happen to be completely under my parents' control , after
announcing that I was a girl andthey refused to accept that, they
told me that I would be committed.
If I continued and what that startedwas me repressing for parents out there
(14:51):
listening to this, there is nothing moredamaging to a person's psychological
wellbeing than to have to repress.
Who you are and how you feel.
You now have this huge secret to hide.
It doesn't go away and youcan't talk to anybody about it.
And that's the way Ihad to live for decades.
Lynn (15:15):
Well, and the statistics on suicides, can't quote them, but
the statistics on suicides andattempted suicides really high,
Wendy (15:23):
very high, 40% or better.
Lynn (15:26):
Wow.
Wendy (15:27):
And this is from my own, my own life example.
At age 66, I was going to kill myself.
Absolutely.
Ready to do it.
Had everything set up.
It was a done deal.
Well, I didn't have anyparents to worry about.
They were long gone.
I had forgiven them.
(15:48):
For what they did with meand how I was forced to live.
And in hindsight, I haveto, honestly say this.
'cause I was asked this by a person thatI knew in back in school in those days.
Well, if your parents had said toyou you could go to school as a
girl, would you have Oh, absolutely.
(16:10):
There would've been no doubt about it.
I don't care if I got teased or anything.
In fact, probably in those days, noone would know what to do with me.
So, no that's how real this is for anychild that says that to their parent.
Kids
Lynn (16:29):
get teased all the time for whatever.
It doesn't exactly, necessarilyhave to do with being trans, right?
So I would've thought nothing about it.
Thinking about what we've talked aboutbefore, about in your later life.
Prescription meds for anxiety and,well, you said you were depressed, you
were anxious in taking prescriptiondrugs and maybe a little pot, even
Wendy (16:52):
vast quantities
Lynn (16:53):
and alcohol and those types of things to, to numb yourself out.
Wendy (16:58):
Is that what you want to make your child go through, is my question?
Lynn (17:02):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, you know, in thinking about , themedical, whether it's puberty, blockers,
or , surgery, those types of things.
I think there's some misconceptionsout there about people just
deciding willy-nilly that, thatthey want this and go get it.
And it's not that way, is it?
Wendy (17:19):
It's called informed consent.
There's a form.
You sign the form, we startyou on hormone therapy.
We just ask if you're seeing atherapist and we encourage that.
So now pretty much anyone who wantsto start a hormone replacement
therapy can do it on their own, just.
Going to the right place andsigning an informed consent
(17:41):
form, and you're on your way.
Lynn (17:44):
But can a teen do that or you have to be an adult?
Wendy (17:47):
You have to be an adult.
Lynn (17:48):
Okay.
So,
Wendy (17:49):
Kids aren't
Lynn (17:49):
running out and doing this stuff on their own.
And
Wendy (17:52):
kids are not able to do that.
Lynn (17:54):
Yeah.
Wendy (17:54):
And if they do, it's because they're getting it through other
sources and basically illegally,it's not being prescribed for them.
And that's the other thing.
Parents should not let their childrendo anything with hormones on their own.
These are serious, substances and.
You can overdose with it.
(18:16):
You can take too large of an,, estrogen injection for too long a
period of time, usually a year orso, and you've got some physical
problems as a result of, well, that's
Lynn (18:28):
another reason why maintaining the relationship with their child no
matter what age, but especially, youknow, before the child's an adult so
that they can have those conversationsand the child's not trying to get
it somewhere illegally or exactly.
A parent can stay in the picture.
Mm-hmm.
There's another benefit tomaintaining that relationship,
(18:49):
whether you understand it or not,
Wendy (18:50):
and being part of it will help with promoting understanding and acceptance.
Lynn (18:56):
Parents, spouses, friends, whatever, who are around a person who's
transitioning, might have uncomfortableconversations with other people.
Mm-hmm.
Family members, their friends.
What advice do you have for how tohave those uncomfortable conversations?
Wendy (19:14):
Well, first of all, if a parent overhears, one of their friends or
relatives saying something disparagingabout the person transitioning, the
first thing the parent should dois intercede in that conversation.
Not in anger, but in way of explainingwhat they know about their child,
(19:41):
how their child feels, how they feelabout it, and that will diffuse that
conversation and actually diminishthe possibility of that conversation
between those people again.
Lynn (19:56):
Okay.
Wendy (19:56):
They might think they might.
In private then think, this is reallyweird, but it might prompt them
to actually look for some way ofunderstanding it and you know, at least
being more knowledgeable about it.
I don't, I think I'lluse that word instead.
(20:17):
Knowledgeable as opposed to understanding.
Yeah.
Gender just is it, it's notsomething we normally think about.
It's not something thatwe normally question.
That's the thing that's differentabout a transgender child.
They were born with this, and they reacha point in their lives where they are
(20:39):
constantly questioning it and questioningthe validity of how they were born and
assigned at birth as male or female.
Lynn (20:49):
Well, and that's the difference between the gay and
lesbian because they understandthey're congruent with their gender.
Wendy (20:56):
Exactly.
Lynn (20:57):
They're just not congruent with their sexual attraction.
Right, right.
So it comes down to individual choicesand examining it and talking about it.
Wendy (21:06):
Right?
Lynn (21:07):
Yeah.
And
Wendy (21:08):
between parents and children.
If the parent wants to maintain arelationship with the child, then
they've got to go through some changeson their own internally and also be
prepared to deal with friends, relatives,and others, and defend your child.
(21:30):
Mm-hmm.
Speak up for them and supportthem, and they'll see that.
They'll know that.
And that will make your relationshipwith your child that much stronger.
Lynn (21:44):
Yes.
And maintain that relationship.
Wendy (21:48):
Exactly.
Lynn (21:48):
Those two parting ways.
Wonderful.
Wendy, thank you so much for this today.
I know you've got programs thatyou coach your clients with.
Tell us a little bit about your programs.
Wendy (21:59):
Well, I do have a program for parents, where I start out with
educating them about transgender.
, Then I talk with them about theirchild and how they're, , going,
what they're going through.
And I give them , a completerundown of details from my life
and from other people's lives asto what not to do with your child.
(22:24):
And I'll talk with them aboutspecifics, things they're questioning,
things they need to know how to do.
, We'll work out, . Basicallyeven scripts of how do you talk
to your coworkers about this?
How do you talk to relatives about this?
, I'll go through all of that with themand prepare them as best I can to help
(22:47):
them deal with things are gonna behit with from other people in society.
And then, , other thing that I try todo with them, kind of the last stage
of it is help them understand whattheir child is going through and.
The whole role change that changinggender brings on, it's not sex, that's
(23:13):
just anatomy between the legs, period.
Gender is between the ears.
Lynn (23:18):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (23:19):
And when you change from male to female or female to male, what
you're feeling and how you're acting.
Changes and it changes subtly.
It can change dramatically in thebeginning, then it keeps changing subtly,
and I stress to them their child isevolving and it will go on for years.
(23:45):
When they're young in their teensand in their twenties, it goes on
fairly quickly, but it still happens.
Lynn (23:53):
Hmm.
, Wendy (23:54):
The girls I met at NYU who, , transitioned at college and , had their
surgery there and all of that, never.
Pick them out in public at all.
Not even close.
And they've several that I know ofthat have gone on to be writers.
(24:16):
Very intelligent, veryproductive people in society.
Hmm.
And even the person that I know whois in Florida became, , basically
a political activist, , doing votersign up and all of that kind of stuff.
And she's out and about in thecommunity and nobody would ever know.
(24:36):
So that's why I always like to say youprobably haven't met a transgender person.
Knowingly, knowingly,
Lynn (24:44):
but you may have met them and not have any idea.
Wendy (24:48):
Exactly.
Lynn (24:50):
Well, Wendy, I know your coaching programs have gotta be so valuable and
so important for people to, to get amentor like you to help them through this.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we all need coaches no matterwhat we're going through in life, and
you've got that unique perspectivethat you can help so many people.
So tell us how to reach you.
Wendy (25:09):
Best way to connect with me is meet wendy cole.com.
That's meet wendy cole.com.
, Sign up for my newsletter, schedule sometime with me and punch the bottom button.
And that'll take you to my main websitewith my, , media page for other podcasts.
And there's a whole lot of informationin that website to read through and that
(25:34):
might be very helpful to people listening.
Lynn (25:38):
Well, and they can even start with the, the resources that you have there.
Exactly.
Go to scheduling a conversationwith you and if they feel the need,
then schedule you for coaching.
That sounds like agreat way to process it.
Mm-hmm.
And thank you, Wendy, for havingthose resources available to people.
Wendy (25:54):
Thank you.
You
Lynn (25:55):
know, there's, there's so much fear on things that we don't understand and
you're helping us understand those things.
Lessen that fear andincrease that acceptance.
So thank you very much.
Wendy (26:08):
Thank you.
That's my goal.
Lynn (26:11):
Well, thank you.
And to our listeners today, thank youfor joining us for another episode.
We've been having a fabulousconversation with the amazing Wendy
Cole, who is a transition mentorand, , I know you've liked this today.
So review the podcast,subscribe to our channel.
We'd love to notify youwhen we've got other.
, Be sure to look at our previousepisodes and they've got
(26:33):
some upcoming episodes too.
So I'm Lynn Murphy, your host atWomen Who Push The Limits and remember
our motto, find your voice, speakyour truth, and change the world.
We'll see you next time.
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
(26:54):
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
One of the other things I like to encourage, really need to do some work on
(00:05):
how you feel about your child yourself.
Do you love them without anyreference whatsoever to gender
Lynn (00:14):
and that work would help with the psychiatrists,
Wendy (00:16):
definitely.
That's where a therapist and apsychiatrist come into the picture.
. Family transitions withthe child, that's a given.
Lynn (00:26):
What do you really know about people who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and the professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
(00:46):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website.
The transgender journey.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
Welcome.
I'm your host Lynn Murphy and I amdelighted to see you here today.
I am the founder of the Women Who Pushthe Limits Movement, and the author
(01:07):
of Women Who Push the Limits presents50 life lessons from Inspiring Women.
I interviewed 50 very, very inspiringwomen, and today I'm continuing with my
interviews of the amazing Wendy Cole,who is a transition mentor and at the
age of 67, transitioned to living thelife that she knew she always was, living
(01:31):
her life as the woman that she was born.
Wendy, thank you for being here todayand for continuing our conversations.
We've been having suchamazing conversations.
Wendy (01:42):
Oh yes, we have, and I've completely enjoyed
all of our time together.
It's been amazing.
It really has, and we've covered somany really good topics in depth.
Lynn (01:54):
We have more topics to cover today.
So for our listeners, if you haven'tlistened to our previous episodes with
Wendy, be sure and and find those onyour favorite podcast or on YouTube.
And today, Wendy, we were gonnatalk about parents and families
and . People who are surroundingtransgender youth or even adults.
(02:16):
. And I know you've got a program thatyou're working with with parents.
Yes.
Tell us a little about that and why that'simportant that we understand that piece.
Well,
Wendy (02:28):
one of the phenomenon that has happened, I don't know exactly when it
started, but it's been building probablyfor the last 10 years as young teens.
20 somethings come out to their familiesas being transgender and feeling that
(02:50):
they're in the wrong body, or there's someother aspect of them that's different.
It's a lot of parents that have throwntheir children out of the house.
Lynn (03:00):
Oh, how sad.
Wendy (03:03):
It is sad, it's kind of horrific.
Homeless problem, as I understand it fromsomeone I know in , lives and works as
a psychologist with the trans communityin LA said that the vast majority of
the homeless problem in la, are transteens really that's the majority,
Lynn (03:24):
and you put teens on the street like that and they don't have life skills.
They don't have resource.
Wendy (03:31):
Exactly.
And he told me that, , itused to be the parents threw
their kids out for being gay.
Yes.
Yeah.
Well, being gay now is socially a littlebit more acceptable, so parents don't
throw their kids out so much for that.
But when a boy walks up to his parentsand says, I really am, , a girl and
(03:52):
I'm gonna start living a more femininelifestyle, and they immediately just.
Recoil at that, , and
Lynn (04:01):
that's what you did.
That's what happened toyou when you were 10.
. That's what we've talked about before.
Wendy (04:06):
Yep.
So my message to parents along thoselines are, if you're child, and I use
the word child to mean the relationshipwith a parent, not their age.
What I'm saying applies toa child regardless of age.
(04:27):
So it could be an adult child.
Exactly.
I've had clients who were in theirfifties that were as afraid to
tell their parents as I was at 10.
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't matter whatthe age is, the social.
Stigma of all of this and our societalnorms have stigmatized it to a point where
(04:52):
even somebody in their fifties or sixtiesis afraid to tell, tell an older parent.
Lynn (04:57):
They get that 50 years of relationship that they've built and.
It really doesn't matter
Wendy (05:03):
what age the person is, it's the relationship and it takes a lot of courage
for some child to tell their parent thatthey're really a boy or they're really
a girl and they're going to change.
Lynn (05:19):
So what advice do you have for parents around this?
Wendy (05:23):
First of all, believe 'em.
It.
It's not something that they're goingto joke about, not just for attention.
My next advice is make sure you getpsychological help with a good therapist
for your child and also for yourself.
This is not a choice.
It's not a life choice.
(05:44):
It's never going to go away.
This is how we're wired.
My other message to parentsis Get over yourself.
You didn't cause this, it.
You did nothing wrong.
Mm-hmm.
These are all the places whereparents' mind starts to go,
Hmm, what did we do wrong?
(06:06):
, What can we do to fix this best?
And really only thing a parentcan do is totally and completely
accept their child for who they are.
Acceptance without any conditions.
Acceptance withoutneeding to understand why.
Well, where did we go wrong?
And all of those types of debates.
(06:28):
That's not the issue.
The issue is really the child.
And by parents accepting them forwho they are, bracing them for
who they are and supporting them.
They're going to go through thisprocess so much easier and actually
(06:50):
be more comfortable in their life.
In their life and growing.
Everything as a result of that support.
They're not being looked down on.
They're not being told thatthey will forget all about this.
When they have a normal life,they'll forget all about this.
(07:10):
No, that didn't work for me.
It hasn't worked for anyoneelse I know, and it won't work.
Lynn (07:17):
So give us some examples , of actual things that they can do physically,
emotionally, to let their kids knowthat they support them, that they accept
them, even if they don't understand them.
Wendy (07:27):
First of all, learn all about transgender and what it really is, not
the stuff that you hear on the news,not the stuff that's put out by the
politicians and the religious peopleabout how we're all pedophiles, sex
fiends, all of this stuff that's crazy.
It's educate themselves about all of this.
(07:50):
The other thing is learn how to talkabout your child and explain it to
other people as succinctly as possible,and show other people like your
neighbors, your relatives, your friends,who all ultimately wind up finding
(08:11):
out about this, explain it to them.
As succinctly and clearly as youcan and come off as accepting and
totally supportive of your child.
What that's going to do is set the stagewith them that, oh, you're okay with
(08:31):
this and you're going to help your child.
So that will alleviate alot of the hostilities or.
Are really nasty things that peoplecan say to a child or to a parent.
Lynn (08:47):
So the parents could protect the child more from
people saying terrible things.
If the parent standsup for the child, then
Wendy (08:55):
exactly what you're
Lynn (08:56):
saying.
So yes.
And even if they have to lose friends,lose relatives, whatever it takes.
Wendy (09:02):
Right.
In a lot of cases, they probably won'tlose that many people out of their,
, lives because again, most people havenever come into contact with this.
So, , here we go with, , parentswho are now faced with this
life change that their child is.
, Facing and besides educating themselvesof embracing their child, fully
(09:29):
supporting their child, it's importantthat they get involved with a therapist.
Don't make it something thatyou feel is weird and abnormal.
That may be what the parent is feeling.
That's why I encourage parentsto get help for themselves, to
(09:50):
understand this and to get through it.
Family dynamics.
The family roles, they're gonna change.
I. That's the otherbig thing that happens.
'cause as this person begins to transitionto their gender that they believe
is them, once they start that wholetransition process, things that they do
(10:12):
every day, , things that they do withinthe family will also begin to change.
There will be things that theyno longer have interest in doing.
There will be new things thatthey are expecting to do.
Again, you're becoming a newperson within the family.
Lynn (10:31):
So then , the family needs to speak to them differently.
Maybe a different name,
Wendy (10:37):
different pronouns, different name, completely different pronouns,,
completely different appearance.
That's gonna change.
It can't help but change.
Lynn (10:45):
So allowing them to do what they feel like doing.
Being the person that they are.
Wendy (10:51):
Right.
Lynn (10:52):
And this is all before any medical treatment other than the
psychiatry or psychology work.
Wendy (10:58):
Right.
I really believe that until someonehits your age where they're independent
of parents medical intervention suchas surgeries or anything like that,
I don't feel should be considered.
Lynn (11:15):
What about
Wendy (11:16):
the puberty blockers?
That used to be fairly controversial.
I feel right nowthat , it's perfectly fine.
It has to do with the surgery techniques.
It used to be that there's a questionas to whether or not there would be
enough skin, enough tissue, enoughdevelopment down there to actually
go from male to female and createa new neo vagina, whereas nowadays.
(11:41):
If the puberty blockers are takenand that development doesn't happen,
they have surgery techniques nowwhere they harvest the peritoneum
tissue that's inside the body.
Mm-hmm.
They can harvest that, it grows back.
Lynn (11:58):
Mm-hmm.
And
Wendy (11:59):
that's what they use to create the vagina.
Lynn (12:01):
So it seems like it would depend on the age when they start giving
them puberty blockers or not, becausethe puberty blockers have been used.
Not just for people who are transsexual,but if girls are starting to menstruate
too early, those types of things.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
They've been using them for yearswith that, and that hasn't, I don't
(12:23):
think that's been controversial.
Wendy (12:25):
No, it hasn't.
Lynn (12:26):
So now it's controversial.
Wendy (12:29):
Now it's controversial.
So , it's a delicate balance with parents.
And one of the other things that, , Ilike to encourage is you basically
really need to do some work on howyou feel about your child yourself.
Do you love them without anyreference whatsoever to gender?
Lynn (12:52):
That work would help with the psychiatrists.
Wendy (12:55):
Definitely.
That's where a therapist and apsychiatrist come into the picture.
Mm-hmm.
Family transitions with the child.
That's a given.
I. That makes a lot of sense.
And if the family doesn't go through thatprocess as well, that's when you wind
up getting to a point where you throwyour kid out on the street and you don't
(13:17):
have anything further to do with them.
Or if they're older, they're in theirtwenties, they're thirties, forties,
whatever, and you're the type ofparent who is not going to accept
this at all and actually be hurtful.
You're gonna drive thechild away, whatever.
(13:37):
They're gonna go on and do what they needto do, and that relationship is broken.
And so if that's what a parentwants, then doing anything less than
complete and unconditional acceptancewill lead to a broken family.
Lynn (13:55):
Well give us some examples of things not to say or not to do.
That could be really hurtful evenwhether, whether or not they're.
Willing to accept the childat whatever point, right?
There may be some things that,that we can alert parents to not
do because it may make it harder tohang on to that good relationship.
Wendy (14:17):
Well, as I've said in other situations, at age 10, I was threatened
with being committed and fixed, andthat's definitely a wrong approach.
Lynn (14:28):
You don't threaten electro shock therapy.
Exactly.
Wendy (14:31):
I happen to be completely under my parents' control , after
announcing that I was a girl andthey refused to accept that, they
told me that I would be committed.
If I continued and what that startedwas me repressing for parents out there
(14:51):
listening to this, there is nothing moredamaging to a person's psychological
wellbeing than to have to repress.
Who you are and how you feel.
You now have this huge secret to hide.
It doesn't go away and youcan't talk to anybody about it.
And that's the way Ihad to live for decades.
Lynn (15:15):
Well, and the statistics on suicides, can't quote them, but
the statistics on suicides andattempted suicides really high,
Wendy (15:23):
very high, 40% or better.
Lynn (15:26):
Wow.
Wendy (15:27):
And this is from my own, my own life example.
At age 66, I was going to kill myself.
Absolutely.
Ready to do it.
Had everything set up.
It was a done deal.
Well, I didn't have anyparents to worry about.
They were long gone.
I had forgiven them.
(15:48):
For what they did with meand how I was forced to live.
And in hindsight, I haveto, honestly say this.
'cause I was asked this by a person thatI knew in back in school in those days.
Well, if your parents had said toyou you could go to school as a
girl, would you have Oh, absolutely.
(16:10):
There would've been no doubt about it.
I don't care if I got teased or anything.
In fact, probably in those days, noone would know what to do with me.
So, no that's how real this is for anychild that says that to their parent.
Kids
Lynn (16:29):
get teased all the time for whatever.
It doesn't exactly, necessarilyhave to do with being trans, right?
So I would've thought nothing about it.
Thinking about what we've talked aboutbefore, about in your later life.
Prescription meds for anxiety and,well, you said you were depressed, you
were anxious in taking prescriptiondrugs and maybe a little pot, even
Wendy (16:52):
vast quantities
Lynn (16:53):
and alcohol and those types of things to, to numb yourself out.
Wendy (16:58):
Is that what you want to make your child go through, is my question?
Lynn (17:02):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, you know, in thinking about , themedical, whether it's puberty, blockers,
or , surgery, those types of things.
I think there's some misconceptionsout there about people just
deciding willy-nilly that, thatthey want this and go get it.
And it's not that way, is it?
Wendy (17:19):
It's called informed consent.
There's a form.
You sign the form, we startyou on hormone therapy.
We just ask if you're seeing atherapist and we encourage that.
So now pretty much anyone who wantsto start a hormone replacement
therapy can do it on their own, just.
Going to the right place andsigning an informed consent
(17:41):
form, and you're on your way.
Lynn (17:44):
But can a teen do that or you have to be an adult?
Wendy (17:47):
You have to be an adult.
Lynn (17:48):
Okay.
So,
Wendy (17:49):
Kids aren't
Lynn (17:49):
running out and doing this stuff on their own.
And
Wendy (17:52):
kids are not able to do that.
Lynn (17:54):
Yeah.
Wendy (17:54):
And if they do, it's because they're getting it through other
sources and basically illegally,it's not being prescribed for them.
And that's the other thing.
Parents should not let their childrendo anything with hormones on their own.
These are serious, substances and.
You can overdose with it.
(18:16):
You can take too large of an,, estrogen injection for too long a
period of time, usually a year orso, and you've got some physical
problems as a result of, well, that's
Lynn (18:28):
another reason why maintaining the relationship with their child no
matter what age, but especially, youknow, before the child's an adult so
that they can have those conversationsand the child's not trying to get
it somewhere illegally or exactly.
A parent can stay in the picture.
Mm-hmm.
There's another benefit tomaintaining that relationship,
(18:49):
whether you understand it or not,
Wendy (18:50):
and being part of it will help with promoting understanding and acceptance.
Lynn (18:56):
Parents, spouses, friends, whatever, who are around a person who's
transitioning, might have uncomfortableconversations with other people.
Mm-hmm.
Family members, their friends.
What advice do you have for how tohave those uncomfortable conversations?
Wendy (19:14):
Well, first of all, if a parent overhears, one of their friends or
relatives saying something disparagingabout the person transitioning, the
first thing the parent should dois intercede in that conversation.
Not in anger, but in way of explainingwhat they know about their child,
(19:41):
how their child feels, how they feelabout it, and that will diffuse that
conversation and actually diminishthe possibility of that conversation
between those people again.
Lynn (19:56):
Okay.
Wendy (19:56):
They might think they might.
In private then think, this is reallyweird, but it might prompt them
to actually look for some way ofunderstanding it and you know, at least
being more knowledgeable about it.
I don't, I think I'lluse that word instead.
(20:17):
Knowledgeable as opposed to understanding.
Yeah.
Gender just is it, it's notsomething we normally think about.
It's not something thatwe normally question.
That's the thing that's differentabout a transgender child.
They were born with this, and they reacha point in their lives where they are
(20:39):
constantly questioning it and questioningthe validity of how they were born and
assigned at birth as male or female.
Lynn (20:49):
Well, and that's the difference between the gay and
lesbian because they understandthey're congruent with their gender.
Wendy (20:56):
Exactly.
Lynn (20:57):
They're just not congruent with their sexual attraction.
Right, right.
So it comes down to individual choicesand examining it and talking about it.
Wendy (21:06):
Right?
Lynn (21:07):
Yeah.
And
Wendy (21:08):
between parents and children.
If the parent wants to maintain arelationship with the child, then
they've got to go through some changeson their own internally and also be
prepared to deal with friends, relatives,and others, and defend your child.
(21:30):
Mm-hmm.
Speak up for them and supportthem, and they'll see that.
They'll know that.
And that will make your relationshipwith your child that much stronger.
Lynn (21:44):
Yes.
And maintain that relationship.
Wendy (21:48):
Exactly.
Lynn (21:48):
Those two parting ways.
Wonderful.
Wendy, thank you so much for this today.
I know you've got programs thatyou coach your clients with.
Tell us a little bit about your programs.
Wendy (21:59):
Well, I do have a program for parents, where I start out with
educating them about transgender.
, Then I talk with them about theirchild and how they're, , going,
what they're going through.
And I give them , a completerundown of details from my life
and from other people's lives asto what not to do with your child.
(22:24):
And I'll talk with them aboutspecifics, things they're questioning,
things they need to know how to do.
, We'll work out, . Basicallyeven scripts of how do you talk
to your coworkers about this?
How do you talk to relatives about this?
, I'll go through all of that with themand prepare them as best I can to help
(22:47):
them deal with things are gonna behit with from other people in society.
And then, , other thing that I try todo with them, kind of the last stage
of it is help them understand whattheir child is going through and.
The whole role change that changinggender brings on, it's not sex, that's
(23:13):
just anatomy between the legs, period.
Gender is between the ears.
Lynn (23:18):
Mm-hmm.
Wendy (23:19):
And when you change from male to female or female to male, what
you're feeling and how you're acting.
Changes and it changes subtly.
It can change dramatically in thebeginning, then it keeps changing subtly,
and I stress to them their child isevolving and it will go on for years.
(23:45):
When they're young in their teensand in their twenties, it goes on
fairly quickly, but it still happens.
Lynn (23:53):
Hmm.
, Wendy (23:54):
The girls I met at NYU who, , transitioned at college and , had their
surgery there and all of that, never.
Pick them out in public at all.
Not even close.
And they've several that I know ofthat have gone on to be writers.
(24:16):
Very intelligent, veryproductive people in society.
Hmm.
And even the person that I know whois in Florida became, , basically
a political activist, , doing votersign up and all of that kind of stuff.
And she's out and about in thecommunity and nobody would ever know.
(24:36):
So that's why I always like to say youprobably haven't met a transgender person.
Knowingly, knowingly,
Lynn (24:44):
but you may have met them and not have any idea.
Wendy (24:48):
Exactly.
Lynn (24:50):
Well, Wendy, I know your coaching programs have gotta be so valuable and
so important for people to, to get amentor like you to help them through this.
Mm-hmm.
You know, we all need coaches no matterwhat we're going through in life, and
you've got that unique perspectivethat you can help so many people.
So tell us how to reach you.
Wendy (25:09):
Best way to connect with me is meet wendy cole.com.
That's meet wendy cole.com.
, Sign up for my newsletter, schedule sometime with me and punch the bottom button.
And that'll take you to my main websitewith my, , media page for other podcasts.
And there's a whole lot of informationin that website to read through and that
(25:34):
might be very helpful to people listening.
Lynn (25:38):
Well, and they can even start with the, the resources that you have there.
Exactly.
Go to scheduling a conversationwith you and if they feel the need,
then schedule you for coaching.
That sounds like agreat way to process it.
Mm-hmm.
And thank you, Wendy, for havingthose resources available to people.
Wendy (25:54):
Thank you.
You
Lynn (25:55):
know, there's, there's so much fear on things that we don't understand and
you're helping us understand those things.
Lessen that fear andincrease that acceptance.
So thank you very much.
Wendy (26:08):
Thank you.
That's my goal.
Lynn (26:11):
Well, thank you.
And to our listeners today, thank youfor joining us for another episode.
We've been having a fabulousconversation with the amazing Wendy
Cole, who is a transition mentorand, , I know you've liked this today.
So review the podcast,subscribe to our channel.
We'd love to notify youwhen we've got other.
, Be sure to look at our previousepisodes and they've got
(26:33):
some upcoming episodes too.
So I'm Lynn Murphy, your host atWomen Who Push The Limits and remember
our motto, find your voice, speakyour truth, and change the world.
We'll see you next time.
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
(26:54):
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, the transgender journey.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
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