May 30, 2025 • 58 mins
In this episode of Demystifying the Transgender Journey, hosts Lynn Murphy and Wendy Cole interview Sam Castle, founder of Be You, Do You Coaching. Sam shares his personal story of understanding his transgender identity from a young age, growing up in a single-parent household with a strong religious background, and overcoming numerous challenges on his journey to transitioning at age 36. He discusses the importance of mental health, the role of therapy and coaching, and the support he's found in both the LGBTQ+ and straight communities. Additionally, Sam offers insights into the cultural challenges faced by transgender people of color and provides advice for employers to create more inclusive environments. Sam's inspiring journey emphasizes the power of authenticity and the need to address past traumas to move forward. He also talks about his coaching practice and the various services he offers to support others on their transgender journeys.
For more information visit: www.thetransgenderjourney.com www.meetwendycole.com https://www.facebook.com/thetransgenderjourney www.womenwhopushthelimits.com https://www.youtube.com/@thetransgenderjourney
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
It was through my experience ofhiring a coach who helped me work
through my mindset and remindedme that nothing was wrong with me.
I wasn't broken because I hadtaken on that belief for so long.
Like, like something was wrong with me.
I had cooties, or I wasgoing to go to hell.
I thought I had to fix that.
I thought that getting baptized wasgoing to wash it away, and uh, it didn't.
(00:23):
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to Demystifying theTransgender Journey in our conversations
with people who were born transgender,their families, friends, and the
professionals who support them, weask probing questions and discover
(00:43):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find more information onour website, thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now, let's get right into today's episode.
Well, welcome everybody.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
I'm Lynn Murphy.
I am the founder of Women Who Push theLimits and collaborator with my amazing
(01:07):
co-host, Wendy Cole, who is a transitionmentor, a life coach, and a consultant.
And between the two ofus, hosting this podcast.
And people always find it interestingthat a cisgender woman and a transgender
woman have paired up to do thisDemystifying the Transgender Journey.
But what we're trying to do iseducate people who are misinformed,
(01:30):
or disinformed, or have badinformation about what's going on.
Wendy transitioned at the age of 67, soyou're going to hear a little bit about
her experience tied in with this today.
And we are so happy to have Sam Castleas our wonderful interviewee today.
Sam is the founder ofBe You, Do You Coaching.
(01:52):
He's a behavioral healthprofessional, a coach, a podcaster,
so he's going to be good today.
And a public speaker.
He is 42 years old and hetransitioned at age 36.
So we're going to ask Sam, sharea bit of your story with us.
And, and just full disclosurefor me, I don't know that
(02:14):
much about trans-masculine.
Mm-hmm.
I've talked to more trans-feminine people.
But share your story with us.
Tell us where it started, howyou're doing, what you did.
Let's go through this.
Wow.
Well, well thank you for that,that amazing introduction.
So, I'm Sam Castle.
I knew at a very young age, I alreadyknew who I was, at the age of six.
(02:38):
I grew up in a single parent household.
My mom was primarily the provider.
My mom and grandmother.
My dad struggled with drug addiction.
I just remember a lot of timesthe household was very chaotic
and busy because my mom wasalways in a caretaking role.
So when it came to talking aboutsexual orientation, identity, that was
never a conversation in my household.
(03:00):
I think a lot of it has todo with cultural, and also
religious beliefs and background.
So I grew up in the church,uh, heavy in the church.
So the Church, church of Christ.
Okay, thanks.
So my mom actually grew up inChurch of Christ and then of course
that was passed down to the kids.
We have to go to church Wednesday, Sunday.
(03:21):
You know, that was the beliefthat was instilled in us.
And so that was the belief that Iheld onto and a part of the fear of
why I wasn't able to disclose, oreven bring it up in conversation.
I also didn't have the language.
I couldn't identify orexplain how I was feeling.
I just knew that I was a boy.
(03:43):
That was the best way that Icould describe what I was feeling.
I was a boy.
Never felt aligned with beingfemale, nothing female at all.
Like toys, clothing.
I cut my ponytail offwhen I was six years old.
Ran with the boys, didall of the boy things.
It was never a phase.
When I look back at the age of six,I always envisioned myself getting
(04:06):
married to a woman, having kids,having the house in the picket fence.
Like that was my vision for myself.
And then when I found out,uh, voila, you're not a boy.
I was, I was pissed, I was angry, Iwas sad, I was hurt, I was confused.
Because all this time I thought I wasa boy and no one was correcting me.
(04:29):
But did you even know whatthat was all about at that age?
That's a pretty young age to tryand make sense of all of this.
No, I had no clue.
But when I looked back,the signs were there.
I cut my ponytail off, wheneverI was forced to wear a dress.
I couldn't wait to get hometo change out of my dress.
I always kept like a, a dufflebag whenever we would go to church
or go to family member's houseto have dinner after church.
(04:51):
I always had a pack of clothes becauseI couldn't wait to get out of the dress.
It just made my skincrawl like it was just.
I felt trapped in the wrong body.
Yeah.
I can tell you that now, like,looking back, like that's how I felt.
So when
you were a teen, you weregoing through puberty?
Yeah.
What was that like?
Well, that was hell.
(05:12):
So, so when I started pubertyand started developing, I
started questioning even more.
Like, I remember when I firststarted, I went to my older cousin.
We grew up together, wewore the same clothes.
We were twins all theway up until high school.
They dressed us alike.
She happens to be a lesbian, by the way.
Uh, but we talk about it all the time.
(05:33):
She said, I always knew, likeshe was my confidant back then.
And I went to her when Istarted, you know, my cycle.
I was, I was afraid, like,I'm like, I'm, I'm bleeding.
What, what, what the hell is this?
But it was just a bunch of confusion.
Like I, I still didn't know.
So when I did come out to my mom at 18, Icame out as lesbian, because that was the
(05:55):
closest that I could get to how I felt.
I was always masculine presenting.
So when I came out to my mom, I,I told her I'm a, I'm a lesbian.
I'm attracted to girls.
But I was met with, well, I'm notgoing to let the devil take your soul.
I should have taken you to church more.
I should have done this.
I should have done that.
And so there was no way I could tell her,well mom, I'm actually not a lesbian.
(06:18):
I feel like this.
So my entire journeywas navigating it alone.
I been outta the house since I was 22.
I moved to San Franciscowith my partner at the time.
And that exposed me to a lot, a lotof resources around gender transition.
Just, just around adulthood.
Like I got a lot of exposure.
(06:40):
What year was that?
Do you remember?
Uh, in 2004 I moved outta the house.
Wow.
At 22.
Okay.
Yeah.
So then once you got to know morelesbians, more LGBTQ+ people, did
you start meeting transgender people?
Had you figured that piece out yet?
No.
So, no one in my family thatI knew of, was LGBT at all.
(07:04):
I didn't find out until I was22, that my mom's mom, her sister
transitioned from male to female.
I didn't find this out until 21, 22 yearsold, but I never got the opportunity to
talk to them because they moved away.
Mm-hmm.
And there was never a discussion.
(07:25):
It was more so of that unspoken, it wasjust, you don't, you don't talk about it.
Mm-hmm.
So the only, the first experiencethat I had with someone who was
transgender, transgender-masculine,I started watching a documentary
on YouTube called The Aggressives.
And at the time, this person identifiedas a masculine lesbian, but then they
(07:46):
soon, eventually transitioned to male.
And so that was when I was able to connectthe dots and was like, this is what it is.
Like, okay, I have someonethat looks like me.
It was another African Americanmasculine identified lesbian, but then
transitioned to male and they weretelling their story and it was almost
like they were telling my story, too.
(08:06):
And what year was that?
Do you remember offhand?
I was, at this time I was 24.
Okay.
2006. Yep.
So there was a medical clinic in SanFrancisco that offers like low cost
medical services where I could seea therapist, I could see a doctor.
So I immediately startedseeing a therapist, a doctor.
(08:28):
But at this time, the term genderaffirming care wasn't a thing.
Mm-hmm.
We weren't calling it that.
At that point we were still apsychological with no treatment,
Yes.
And no cure per the therapeuticcommunity and the medical community,
which didn't change until 2012.
Yes.
It was still considered a disorderand when I got connected to the
(08:51):
doctor, the doctor's role was tocreate me a good letter for me to
get approved for any type of surgery.
So, I started working towards gettingtop surgery, but, it got denied because
they deemed it "cosmetic" at the time.
Mm-hmm.
So, I kept running into all thesehurdles and all these roadblocks.
But like Wendy said, then genderaffirming care came along in 2012.
(09:15):
Well, the organization that I hadan opportunity to work for started
gender affirming care in 2013, andthe same therapist that I had back
in my twenties happened to be mysame gender affirming therapist when
I started working for this healthhealthcare organization years later.
So I kind of felt like everything wentin the full circle, like even though
(09:37):
I wasn't able to transition early on,the star, the stars, if you would say
were, they were aligning, like allthe experiences led me up to, to now.
So other than the therapists andthe doctors, did you have, friends
or coworkers, or anybody who wasreally helpful on this journey?
No, I was solo.
(09:58):
I was pretty much solo.
Hmm.
I was pretty much solo.
That's why I'm, I totally
relate to that.
I was pretty much solo.
So all of the like, pros and consI had to go through by myself.
Like all of the hiccups, Ihad to go through myself.
I went to therapy alone.
All of my doctor's appointments alone.
I got remarried because the personI was with previously said, I didn't
(10:21):
get with you for you to transition.
If I wanted a man, Iwould've gotten with a man.
So, that was another barrier of whyI didn't transition then, because my
partner at the time wasn't going for it.
So I had to compromise, youknow, compromise my happiness.
And so when I met my now wife, I, I sharedwith her like right away, I said, this
(10:41):
is how I feel, how I've always felt.
I'm not compromising this time around.
And she's been my biggest supporter.
Oh, and how long haveyou two been together?
We've been married since 2018.
Oh, good.
So now you've got some support,you've got a loving relationship.
Yes.
That's amazing.
I have a community of peoplenow who looks like me, who I
(11:03):
can, you know, identify with.
I mean, I have a diverse group offriends, straight LGBT, the whole rainbow.
I love it.
Congratulations on that.
Yes.
Congratulations.
That's excellent.
Thank you.
I can totally relateto what you just said.
Yeah, it was, it was lonely upuntil I transitioned in 2018,
(11:24):
it was a pretty lonely road.
Mm-hmm.
And were, were youchecking YouTube, Googling?
How were you finding informationonce you identified that this
was, you know, transgender?
I was Googling, I wasresearching, watching videos.
So, I got hired by, I don'twanna say their names because I'm
still going through a process.
I actually resigned from this healthcareorganization April of last year.
(11:48):
I finally walked away, verytoxic work environment.
Couldn't be myself, I'll leave it at that.
But they played a big part, likein, I was able to pay for my gender
affirming care from hormones, surgeries.
Mm-hmm.
So even though it didn't work outemployment wise, it worked out
as far as getting my healthcareresources and needs met.
(12:11):
So when I got hired by them in 2015,I found out that they had gender
affirming care, or they offered it.
So I was able to reconnect with services.
And like I said, the therapist thatI happened to have in 2015 was my
same therapist before when I wasin my twenties doing my research.
(12:32):
Hmm.
And so they were supportingthat within the organization?
Yes.
Even though there was some other issue,but that, that wasn't the issue then.
Right.
And did you come out, did youtransition in front of your coworkers?
You know, what was the process there?
How did that work?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got hired with the organization in2015, but I didn't transition till 2018.
(12:55):
So the hurdle wasn'tmy partner at the time.
The hurdle now was still familialexpectations and just, I was
afraid of losing my family.
So I was already met with, youknow, the response I got from my
mom when I came out as lesbian.
So I was like, how the hell am Igoing to tell her I'm transitioning?
(13:16):
And so I actually, when I had my firstsurgery, I told her I was just getting
a breast reduction because of my back.
Hmm.
So that's how I shared that with her.
But then I slowly just started opening upbecause I also went back to therapy too.
So that was, that was a big help inhelping me address issues with my
(13:37):
mom and family and everything that Iwas repressing up until that point.
It gave me more confidence to have theconversations that I needed to have.
And you got help with setting boundaries.
Yes.
And because boundaries arevery important, especially if
you're staying with family Yes.
Or your family.
(13:58):
Yes.
I got good at setting boundaries.
I got good at speaking up for myself.
I got good at just showing up forme because up until that point
I was showing up for everyoneelse and neglecting myself.
And so transitioning for me, I feltlike it was a complete transformation.
Like not just physical, butmentally, emotionally, spiritual too.
(14:19):
It just gave me the confidencethat I, that I needed to be
able to walk this journey.
That's where you get your mantraof you don't need permission.
Yes.
And that's who you're, yeah.
And so when I transitioned in 2018,that was a reminder for me, like,
Be You, Do You like, be yourself.
You don't need permission.
So that's pretty much how that mantracame about was through my transition.
(14:40):
Yeah.
So what, go ahead, Wendy.
Uh, what were your challengesduring that transition?
Your biggest challenges, bothphysically and emotionally?
My biggest challenge, uh, ofcourse was the family piece.
I felt like it caused a, a wedge forsure, because no one understood it.
(15:02):
I was getting like mixed responses.
Some family members were,oh, we already knew.
And then my mom was completely oblivious.
I even.
Took a step farther and invitedher to the, like, one of my therapy
sessions to give her her own spaceto explore her feelings and thoughts.
Mm-hmm.
The therapist was actuallynot my own therapist.
I researched on my own, found hera Christian based therapist that
(15:26):
shared the same beliefs as her.
So just imagine how uncomfortableI was, but I, again, I
wanted to make my mom happy.
Right.
And how, how has the relationshipsprogressed since 2018?
It's gotten better.
She still has issues with the pronouns.
She's able to call me Sam, somy birth name was Samantha.
(15:48):
Mm-hmm.
Which wasn't easy to change it.
Right.
It's, I, I, I feel likeit was meant to be.
It was meant to be.
Right.
She calls me Sam, but she still has, uh.
A hard time with the pronouns.
Mm-hmm.
But she does correct herself.
So we, we have made progress.
Uh, it's still not as close asI want it to be but I feel like
it's just going to take time andI just continue to move forward.
(16:10):
You know, if she catchesup, she catches up.
If she
doesn't, she doesn't.
That's exactly what I say all the time,is our family has to transition with us.
Mm-hmm.
And if they don't, youknow, that's basically it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I have also found along the way, I'vemet some amazing people that have become
(16:30):
family and my biggest support system.
Exactly.
So family is just who you're related to?
For me now, it's allabout relationships and
connections with people.
Yes.
The
gay community was my biggest supporters.
How were they to you?
I.
That's a good question.
(16:50):
I would say after my transition becauseI was able to be more authentic and be
myself, relationships have been, havebeen easier because I know who I am now.
I don't ha, I don't feel likeI have to play, play a role.
I'm curious.
Mm-hmm.
From very early on I was very open withgay people, but with straight people,
(17:14):
I let them get to know me first mm-hmm.
For quite a while beforeI ever came out to them.
Mm-hmm.
What's your approach to that?
I'm pretty much the same way, I want, Iwant the person to get to know me first.
Mm-hmm.
But it's so weird because I'mmore open and comfortable with
the straight community, mm-hmm.
(17:35):
than I am with my own community.
And, and because at the, at the end ofthe day, I've always gotten respect from
the straight community and they're like.
I would've never thought otherwise.
And at first I would be offensive to that,but then I also take it as a compliment.
Mm-hmm.
Because they see me as
me.
Yeah.
Now, yeah.
(17:56):
I found that it's also locationdependent too because, uh, when I,
where I live before, a lot of straightpeople would say, oh, that's okay.
And then quietly disappear.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, did you experience the samething or something similar?
It was the complete opposite.
(18:16):
Oh, okay.
Like, I've had the straightcommunity embrace me even more
and like, support me even more.
So a lot of my coachesand mentors are straight.
They're not LGBT.
A lot of my, the peoplein my circle are straight.
They're not
LGBT at all.
Now I moved fromPennsylvania to Rhode Island.
Rhode Island has been wonderful.
(18:37):
Yeah.
Very open, very welcoming and.
Straight community's been great.
Yeah.
So like, I think it's all about
location.
Mm-hmm.
Definitely
location.
And I would say educationplays a big piece.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like now a lot of, regardlessof what the media is saying,
people are open to learning.
(18:58):
But we're not seeing that on the media of,we're not going to see that in the media.
And, and definitely we won'tbe seeing that in the media.
We're going to, that's been my sameexperience too, Sam, is I would
sit and, uh, talk with people andthey were curious and with your
approach, same as my approach.
(19:21):
Ask anything you wish andAbsolutely nothing's off limits.
Mm-hmm.
That just really draws people in.
Yeah.
To engage.
Yeah.
And it changes perspectives.
It does.
I just had the same experiencewith my wife's sister.
We just had this longconversation yesterday.
I always come to her with theapproach of, I'm an open book.
(19:43):
There's no dumb questions.
And you know, like I was explainingto her like, my next, I'm
preparing for my next surgery.
And so, you know, I was open aboutthat and explaining, you know, the
process and she was asking the questionsand I never thought that that would
even happen because before her, hermindset was completely different.
It was like, I don't wanna hear aboutit, I don't wanna know about it.
(20:05):
But it's just, I feel like the more theperson gets to know who you are I've
realized that we're, we're no different.
We just have a different journey
because I've always, I, I heara lot within the community
about how people hate us.
No,
but I have not experiencedthat personally.
Have You?
(20:25):
No, mine have been likeisolated incidents.
Like my last incident that I had was twoyears ago at my workplace parking lot.
This was before I started HO Hormones,so there weren't any changes and this
person assumed and started calling meall kinds of names and getting irate and
(20:46):
tranny this, tranny that in this, in that.
But it's also the location I live in.
I live in a very Trump, likeTrump town, you can call it.
But other than that, I don't, Idon't get any hate from people.
Did you start transitioningsocially phy, you know, just
the physical outward appearance?
Was that gradual or was that somethingthat you just kind of one day?
(21:09):
Well, when I was younger,I feel like I was always.
I al already, I had already sociallytransitioned because when I was younger,
I wanted people to call me by Sam.
Mm-hmm.
I never wanted them tocall me by my birth name.
When I was old enough to buymy own clothes, I started
shopping in the men's department.
Mm-hmm.
Like, everything was you know, male.
So I started with top surgery first in2018, and then hormones two years later.
(21:33):
So, 2020, I started hormones.
I wanted to give myself time.
I, I wasn't sure if Iwanted the hormones or not.
So I needed time to just sit inwith the surgery first before , you
know, taking my next step.
Mm-hmm.
And then I startedhormones two years later.
How did that feel when you first started?
(21:56):
I always get asked that,that's why I'm asking you.
It is like a butterfly.
It it, I don't know if you'refamiliar with the butterfly process,
but I share the butterfly process.
It was almost like going into a cocoonand then you're blossoming into this
butterfly and it's uncomfortable at timesbecause again, emotions are coming up.
(22:17):
Emotions came up to the surface,like literally everything
from childhood to that point.
But then it's also transformational.
So it was a combination.
You experienced during that,a lot of doubts, a lot of
doubt, and limiting beliefs.
And how did you overcome them?
Um, I hired a coach.
(22:38):
Okay.
So it was through, it was throughmy experience of hiring a coach who
helped me work through my mindset.
Mm-hmm.
My limiting beliefs, my childhood trauma.
And reminded me thatnothing was wrong with me.
I wasn't broken because I hadtaken on that belief for so long.
Like, like something was wrong with me.
I had cooties or I wasgoing to go to hell.
(22:59):
I thought I had to fix that.
I thought that getting baptized wasgoing to wash it away and, uh, it didn't.
Mm-hmm.
So, speaking of your religion or yourfaith, do you still have a faith?
Uh, you know, what, what's the impactof that religious upbringing and
your mother's feelings about, youknow, what's going to happen to you?
(23:20):
What, what, how has that progressed?
I don't believe it anymore becauseagain, it boils down to a belief.
And the moment I stopped believing it waswhen I started transitioning, I realized
it was more of her own fear, not mine.
So I allowed her to, Igave her her fear back.
And I am spiritual.
I have my own spiritual practices.
I'm not connected withthe same church anymore.
(23:43):
I left that church in 2017and never looked back.
So I have my own spiritual practices.
I do believe in a higherpower, but my spirituality has
definitely evolved over time.
Like I'm a respecter of awe mm-hmm.
Practices and religions.
I don't believe in like yourreligion is right or wrong.
(24:05):
You're allowing other people to be whothey are and you're being Absolutely.
Yes.
And, and listening to your storyabout using a coach, that feeds
into what you do as a coach.
Yeah.
You know how, you know how to
Yeah.
Talk to
people who are transitioning, peoplewho are having concerns about it.
Mm-hmm.
So you're perfect positionto do that, aren't you, Sam?
(24:25):
Yeah.
I feel like coaching alsohelped me confirm my purpose in
what I'm supposed to be doing.
Like it, it helped me.
It helped get back to me and whoI actually am as a person and how
I want to help others around me.
And I feel like through my own livedexperience, I'm able to do that.
And isn't that interesting how we haveto go through these experiences that
(24:47):
may not be the most fun experiences?
That's not life.
Yeah.
But it puts you where you're supposedto be, where your soul or the universe
says, Sam, this is what you've gotta do.
So here, here's what we needto lead up to that with.
Yeah.
In that moment it felt likehell, it was uncomfortable.
Like, like Wendy said, I had all of thesebelief systems and shame and guilt, but
(25:09):
looking back, it all served its purpose.
Yeah.
That's kind the way I look at it too.
It's the universe puts thesethings in your path and
yeah.
Lead you
in that
direction.
And the universe has done that, so yeah.
While we have, you know, all of thisstuff happening with the election,
like I'm just trying to, trying tostay focused on what I can control.
(25:30):
You know,
that's all
we
can do.
Yeah.
You know, and we're hearing things,silly things about people who are, you
know, un unhappy with their transition.
They wanna detransition and some of those,it's just such a minute number of people.
But was there ever any time when youthought, oh, I'm going to stop this.
I'm not going to do this?
(25:51):
No.
Okay.
I never thought, I neverthought about that.
And even when I do think aboutDetransition, like I said, I'm
also a respecters of, you know,other people and their experiences.
And if that's something that theywant to do, then that's their journey.
But I also feel like the reason why,which it's been reported, it's the
familial and societal expectations.
(26:13):
So we don't detransition because we'reunhappy, we de detransition because
we're trying to make everyone else happy.
Uh, a lot of times alsopeople who detransition, it's
because they didn't mentally,emotionally transition themselves.
Yes.
They just did the outwardappearance and we're done.
(26:35):
Yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
I'm glad you mentioned that mental, mentalhealth is a huge part, like mentally,
emotionally, that's a part of it too.
It's not so much the outer appearance,it's the inner, the inner work.
It's required.
It,
you have to, it just, youwere socialized as female.
I was socialized as male.
(26:55):
I went through a lot ofwork to deconstruct that.
How did you do?
I'm still de deconstruct.
Well, no, it is a work in progress.
I'm, I'm still, I'm still, you know,figuring it out, but I give myself
room to explore, uhhuh and learn.
Like for example, beforetransition, I wanted nothing
(27:16):
to do with fingernail polish.
Well, one day I experimented, I wentto the nail shop with my wife and I was
like, oh, let's try some nail polish.
I don't like it, but I gave myselfpermission to explore, you know?
Good.
And not putting a label to it.
Like, oh, only men, you know, men looklike this, or women look like this.
Like, I've, I've gotten over
(27:37):
that.
Yeah.
The first time I had my nails donein a salon, I was in guy mode.
Yeah.
And I was told that men comein and have their nails done.
Okay.
I tried it.
Yeah,
Yeah, yeah.
I'm just, you know, I'mopen, I'm open to trying.
Yeah.
Like even around sexual orientationand exploration, like my wife mm-hmm.
(28:00):
We have conversations about that, likewhere we're at, you know, how we feel.
Because when I, when I startedtestosterone I was primarily attracted to
women, but then I had situations to whereI was questioning it, and then I connected
the dots and I said, well, I've alwaysidentified as a man, so it's not now that
(28:22):
I'm comfortable in my own skin mm-hmm.
This is, this is what it is.
I feel like I'm, I'm tryingto explain it, I think, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Well,
sexual orientation are
different.
Yeah.
Is, and it develops at the sametime in the second trimester in
different parts of the brain.
Yeah.
(28:42):
And what I found is I wasrepressing my feminine Yeah.
Uh, qualities to a point where Ialso repressed my sexual orientation.
Yes.
I married a woman becausethat was a checkbox in the
heteronormative scheme of life.
Right.
One of the things too, fora little girl, six years old
(29:05):
mm-hmm.
Wanting to wear boys' clothes andplay with boys, you had more freedom
to do that, I think, than I did.
Yeah, there was a lot of freedom.
Because freedom of societal norms.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You could be a tomboy.
Yeah.
And that's what everyone was labeling it.
(29:27):
Right?
Oh, you're a tomboy,you'll grow out of it.
Oh, I heard the same thing too.
But I didn't, I didn't grow out of it.
But yeah, it's, it's been alot of exploration for sure.
I am primarily attracted to women,but again, it was like, even those
questions were coming up because again,as a kid, I had to repress all of that.
Mm-hmm.
I wasn't able to address it.
(29:47):
So, the transition has helpedme address those things as well.
Yeah, after surgery
is when I figured out what mytrue sexual orientation was.
Yeah.
Much to my amazement and shock.
Because you weren't attracted tomen when you were a man, were you?
No.
(30:07):
Being with a guy was gross.
Well, and that's what'sdifferent with Sam.
You know, Sam, you were attracted towomen when you were in a woman's body, and
society kind of accepts that, you know?
Yeah.
You have lesbian relationships.
You didn't have to marry somebodyto prove that you were a girl,
a woman, that kind of thing.
Right.
I did force myself into, you know, theheterosexual relationships, but they were
(30:30):
just uncomfortable and I always felt likeone of the guys, it was just so awkward.
It was awkward to say the least.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what we do to conformto all the standards that we
were socialized from childhood.
Yeah.
From the time we're born allthe way through, were treated.
By the sex assigned at birth as opposedto the gender that we really are.
(30:55):
One other thing that Wendy and Iwere talking about, because neither
she nor I is a person of color.
Mm-hmm.
And wondering if there's some difference.
I don't know.
Wendy, did you wanna to pursue,did you have a question on that or?
Sure.
I
see all the statistics ontrans-feminine people that are
killed during the course of a year.
(31:17):
Yeah.
And the vast majority are peopleof color and then there'll be
a few white people in there.
Yeah.
And I've never quitereally understood that.
And you mentioned inthe beginning cultural.
Yeah.
Can you go into that?
Yeah.
Well, it's a big taboo to beanything else but straight.
(31:39):
Lesbian, gay, bi, trans.
So I had to repress that part of myself.
And so a lot of it is cultural.
And then also with, uh, trans women ofcolor, uh, you get into the situation
with black men who, like you said, areconditioned to repress who they are.
And so when they find out they areattracted to a trans woman, you know, it's
(32:04):
either I explore it or I have to keep ithidden, which is I have to keep it hidden.
So then that's ultimately a lot ofcases, it's because of that, like men
being on the down low aren't able toexpress who they truly are because
culturally, uh, black men are not gay.
You, you're not supposed to be gay.
(32:24):
You're not supposed tobe anything but straight.
So, okay, that plays a
big part of it.
Now, in terms of being transmasculine,is that easier within that culture
because like you're one of the guys now?
No, there's, there's still challenges.
Okay.
It
(32:44):
hasn't been my experience, but alot of transmasculine men that I
do know, they don't have very closerelationships with their families.
Mm-hmm.
So a lot of times it'sthe family that we choose.
And it's never our blood family.
I don't, I don't have that experience.
I mean, honestly, I've, I've beena, I don't wanna say estranged,
but I haven't seen a lot ofmy family since before COVID.
(33:08):
Okay.
I stay connected with my mom, butother than that, I don't really
have a connection with family.
Okay.
Do you have a
large family?
Huge family.
My great-grandmother had 13 kids.
Oh.
Wow.
There was always a house full of kids.
A lot of things going on.
That's why I, I'm not surprisedthat my mom says she didn't know.
(33:29):
I mean, she was the provider.
Yeah.
Well, what about children?
Do, do you have a desire to have children?
No.
My wife and I talked about it offand on, but we like our free life.
We have two dogs.
My dad actually currentlylives with us now.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(33:50):
And he's obviously accepting?
He's very accepting.
He sees me as his son.
Nice.
Yeah.
I'm so happy for you.
That's really great.
Yeah, me too.
I was, I wasn't surprised because he andmy mom had a totally different upbringing.
Yeah, totally different.
What was the difference?
Well, my dad's side isn'treally heavily into religion.
(34:12):
Okay.
Oh.
I think that that plays a huge
part Yeah.
When someone's very much into religion.
If the other's not, that can be touchy.
Yeah.
It's just something that's, Ifind very hard to get away from.
It's like that belief is so deeplyingrained that it causes, you know,
people who are religious to live life.
(34:32):
I, I just, that's, it's, it's deep.
It's deep.
When I talk to a, a mother of atransgender daughter who is deep in
a religion and was treated very, verypoorly when her daughter transitioned.
Yeah.
It's tough.
And people are so ingrained inthat they can't, they can't,
(34:54):
it's either black or white.
They can't see thatthere are any variations.
They can't see that there areany other options other than-
No.
straight.
Straight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then I also think, you know, whenI do reflect, I think it's more so,
our parents' inability to look in themirror themselves and maybe they're not
(35:17):
addressing their own childhood woundsor trauma, and we're the closest to
them to project their own feelings onto.
I think that that plays a huge part too,because it's, it's also generational.
Because , like I said, growingup, we didn't talk about therapy.
Therapy wasn't a thing.
We didn't talk about mental health.
We didn't even talk aboutsexuality in the house.
(35:37):
Well, and it's interesting because I lookat you as someone who's quite a few years
younger than I am, and I grew up in anera where you really didn't talk about it.
You didn't even darethink about it, you know?
Yeah.
That's why I say it's culturally, I thinkit's, it's really culturally because
I, I know a lot of trans-masc whiteindividuals where their parents and family
are embracive and, and, and supportive.
(35:58):
I, I definitely think it's just cultural.
And Sam, I know you do a lot of coaching.
You're out, you'respeaking, you're visible.
How do you balance advocatingfor the transgender community
versus your own self-care?
Is that an issue to get that balance?
I'm still figuring out.
So, you know, I spent the last14 years in corporate healthcare.
(36:19):
So being in entrepreneurshipis new for me still, but the
community has been very supportive.
I was able to sign my firstcoaching contract last year,
so I'm leading a support group.
I'm collaborating with another,uh, trans organization.
The phase that I'm in nowis the learning phase.
Like, I'm learning how to balancetaking care of myself, but then
also advocating for the community.
(36:40):
Leading up to the new year,I took a two week break off.
I didn't do anything advocacyrelated, work related, and
that was challenging to do.
Very challenging because I'm alsoworking through the result of
my, uh, toxic work environment.
So I have to be really connectedwith the emotional piece.
So I still, I still do therapy,which is important to me.
(37:03):
Like, I stay connected with my therapistand my mentors and just know that I don't
have to have it all figured out because
like I wanna have it figured all out.
I gotta see what it looks like.
But I'm in that learning phase right nowand just reminding myself everything's
going to be okay, because I neversaw myself walking away from my job.
But Do you have other practicesthat you recommend to other
(37:23):
people?
I work out, I do a gratitudejournal every single day.
I pray, I meditate, I go for walks.
My wife and I do traveling.
I'm a huge foodie, so we like to trydifferent foods, we cook at home.
My dogs have been ahuge emotional support.
Yeah.
They've, they've been lifesaving.
(37:43):
My dogs.
What kind of dogs do you have?
I have a Shihtzu and a Yorkie.
Oh, nice.
But yeah, I do, I do a lot of things.
I, I like staying connected tocommunity and, uh, personal development.
Like, that's been, that'sbeen my thing lately.
Are there some communities that yourecommend or that you are part of
that you wanna give a shout out to?
(38:04):
I like to give a shout out to theGlobal Trans Equity Project that
was founded by Dr. Elijah Nicholas.
I actually just graduatedfrom his cohort last year.
It used to be called 100 Black Trans Men,giving opportunities to Black Trans Men.
But now we represent not onlytrans men, but non-binary, gender
non-conforming, veterans, and seniors.
(38:28):
And this is a support group or?
Yeah, this is a support group.
I collaborate with the Global TransEquity hosting a support group.
People have people to talk to then, yes.
Rather than being in a vacuumlike you were for so many years.
Yeah.
Everyone in the organization, theyhave their own small business,
and so we just all collaboratetogether under this umbrella.
(38:48):
Oh, nice.
Okay.
If we put that in the show notes.
Yes.
Yes.
Tell people
about that.
That sounds like a excellent organization.
Yeah.
It's called, uh, gtep.org.
His vision is creating an inclusiveand affirming world for all of us.
So what, what kind of misinformationdo you run across most frequently,
or disinformation or people who areconfused about what this is all about?
(39:10):
Well, you said the word confused.
I see a lot of times peoplesaying we're confused and,
oh,
I can't tell you.
Like, I know myself betterthan anyone else does.
We're not confused.
We know at a very young age.
Myself, I didn't have thespace to explore who I was.
And so it took time.
I had to navigate andI had to figure it out.
(39:30):
But once I did, I, I canconfirm and affirm who I am.
I'm not confused.
So that's one.
We're not confused, we know.
We always know.
Well, and I think people in general,if they're into any type of personal
growth, maybe it's not about their gender,but go through phases of who they are.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
We all transition.
Yeah.
(39:50):
We hear women who have beenthe, the mother and the wife.
Mm-hmm.
Housekeeper and the cook and all thatfor so many years, and then come to a
point where all that's gone and thenthey're trying to figure out who they are.
So I, I can see where people wouldsay confused, does not make any sense
because those people aren't confused.
You're not confused.
Yeah.
(40:11):
We're not confused.
That's a very good point.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Another one, um, we touched onit, gender and sexual orientation
are two different things.
So for example, a female that transitionedto a man and then they date another
man, well, they're considered a gay man.
Sexual orientation andgender are different.
Your gender is how youidentify and orientation is who
(40:31):
you're sexually attracted to.
So that's another one where people get
mm-hmm.
The, the thing that I find is peopletend to equate sex with gender, Yes.
Because it's all between the legs Yes.
when the doctor assigns it at birth.
Yes.
And that's at best a guess.
(40:52):
Yes.
In reality, it's a guess.
Yes.
It is a guess.
You don't know.
Then by the time we begin to realizewho we really feel like, not maybe put
words to it, but how we feel, mm-hmm.
we've already gone through enoughof that socialization to know that
it's wrong- by their standards.
(41:13):
By their standards.
Yes.
That's a good one too.
And that's very hard to getacross to some straight people.
Yeah.
So Sam, in your coaching or just inyour interaction with other people who
are maybe thinking about transitioningor starting to transition, what
do you think is the most importantthing for them to consider to, to
(41:36):
do as they're at that initial point?
I'm, I'm always going to, uh,advocate for the mental health piece.
Like that's, that's important,like addressing old wounds
and childhood trauma.
Not staying and focusing on it, butat least addressing it because that
plays a huge part leading up totransitioning and moving forward.
Like for me, I couldn't move forwarduntil I addressed what was happening
(42:00):
in the past or identifying like whyI was showing up because I was, I was
very angry to the point where I'm beingtransparent now in my first marriage,
I went to jail because of my anger.
Because I was holding on so likeso much in me, I never really
(42:20):
shared this story, but yeah.
And, and I had, I hadshame and guilt from that.
And so I, I carried that with me.
Like even my mom telling me mysoul was going to go to hell.
I held onto that from 18 to thetime I transitioned at 36, 18 years.
And it wasn't until I went back totherapy and addressed all of that,
that I was able to move forward.
So mental health is very important.
(42:43):
You got rid of all of those pasttraumas to the point where you could
let go of them and they didn't formlimiting beliefs in your future life.
Yes, yes.
So when I meet someone, we are definitelygoing to tackle the limiting beliefs.
That's ultimately what holds us back.
Exactly.
I've had people start with me, andactually go from terrified and scared,
(43:10):
yeah.
full of doubts.
Yeah.
And six weeks later,they're living full time.
Full time.
Yeah.
We got through those limiting beliefs.
Mm-hmm.
And off they went all by themselves.
I didn't push.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not uncommon for people, forpeople to move forward once they do the
mental work that you're talking about.
(43:32):
Yeah, you're right.
And that's my focus is the mental work.
Because I feel like ultimately that'swhere we can heal and move forward.
And then, you know, the limitingbeliefs, and I do a lot of
goal setting and accountabilitybecause that's also important.
Mm-hmm.
Like knowing what direction you wanna goin life, and also knowing that you can,
you know, I realized I have a choice.
You know, I, for a long time, I,I thought I couldn't leave my job.
(43:55):
I was connected to the paycheck.
It was the most money I've ever madein my life, but, my mental health
was being greatly affected by theenvironment, and so I had to choose,
like, even in that, sometimes it'sscary, but we have to make a choice.
Either way, you're going to make thechoice or not, but either way, the
choice is going to be made, so youmight as well just get moving and just
(44:17):
figure it out.
One of the things that, uh, perplexesme a lot within our community mm-hmm.
Is I see people sitting in thesame support groups all around
the country where I sit in
Yeah.
And they never seem to make any progress.
It's, it's almost like the, thesupport group becomes a comfort zone
(44:37):
for them to just sit and stay, asopposed to taking steps forward.
Yeah.
I've noticed that.
But it goes back to,again, the limiting belief.
Mm-hmm.
You know,
I, I can't believe it for you.
And that's what I tell my clients.
As much as I wanna believeit for you, I can't, you have
to believe it for yourself.
(44:58):
Mm-hmm.
And I would just encouragewhoever's listening, don't,
don't get stuck in one spot.
Like, explore, be open, because you neverknow who's out there waiting for you.
Well, and Sam, you talkedabout your anger issues.
Yeah.
Wendy's talked about drugs and alcohol.
You know, different people have differentway of suppressing what's going on because
you feel like you have to suppress it.
But to be able then to clear all that,you know, without feeling guilty,
(45:21):
Wendy talks about feeling guilty,about, about marrying a woman, having
children, those types of things.
You know, but that, that, thatdoesn't serve at the point that
people are at, that you're at now.
So being able to let go of that andeven sharing that, that's something that
happened, something that you went through.
Yeah.
I held onto it for a long timebecause I was embarrassed and I
(45:43):
was, you know, telling myself likeyou shouldn't be acting this way.
You shouldn't be responding this way.
But I was never given theemotional tools to express myself.
So anger was the only wayI knew how to communicate.
Yeah.
And I think that's a good message forpeople, you know, understanding that, that
you, you may be showing up in a way that'snot really fitting into society, but
(46:05):
Yeah.
But you don't have the tools and youand Wendy can serve people with your
coaching and mentoring programs.
Give them the tools.
Yes.
I
think that's wonderful.
Thank you for doing that.
Thank you both of you.
Yeah.
I've found it very freeing, talking aboutmy guilt, my use of pot, and all of the
(46:27):
other stuff that I did to repress this.
Yeah.
Talking about your anger too might feelfreeing to you at some point as well.
Yeah.
Talking about it, and I, I knewwhere it came from, so it wasn't just
repressing everything and not beingable to be my authentic self, but it
was also, uh, shown in my household,so like I said, my dad struggled with
(46:49):
the drug addiction and alcohol, sowhen he and my mom were together,
that's what I saw.
I saw emotional, physicalabuse, and arguing on his end.
So I thought being in a relationship,that's what it looks like.
That's how I get my needs met.
That was your role model?
That was my role model, yeah.
And then, you know, they, theyseparated when I was in junior high.
(47:12):
And then, like I said, my mom was the soleprovider, so she still wasn't the example,
she wasn't, she wasn't very nurturing,
there was no attachment there betweenus, because her mom wasn't nurturing.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It, it all rolls downhill, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what we see.
That's, that's how we think the world is.
(47:33):
Right.
Yeah.
And so now I was able to recognizethat and make a decision that I didn't
want my life to go down that path.
Yeah.
Congratulations.
I'm so happy for you.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, and, and Sam, earlier youmentioned about, about your employment.
Is that something youwanna talk about now?
Did that relate to yourtransgender journey or is that not
(47:54):
something you wanna talk about?
I can talk briefly.
So it's still an ongoing process.
So a part of my gender transitionis what created all of this
workplace, uh, turmoil, and thereason why I had to walk away.
It was a very toxic environment.
I couldn't be myself and Iwas pretty much pushed out.
That's also something I'm workingthrough with my therapist.
So again, I'm really intentionalabout my mental health because some
(48:18):
days are harder than others becauseI still go back to what could I have
done, you know, to make it better.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I had started doing a lot of,like I said, personal development
before I even transitioned and Iwas continuing with my personal
development and therapy even at work.
And so I thought it was something that Ihad to do to change me and how I showed up
(48:41):
to work, but it had nothing to do with me.
They just didn't want me there.
So what advice would you give to employersabout how to handle a situation like that?
I would say take the timeto listen to the employee.
I felt a lot of times they were dismissiveand, and wasn't really listening.
I would also encourage,take the training seriously.
(49:01):
It's almost like just checking a box formost employers, but I would encourage
taking the time to take those trainings,understanding it so that they can be more
supportive of their employees that areLGBTQ+, not even LGBTQ+, but just having
an environment that's, that has differentcultures and backgrounds and beliefs.
(49:21):
Mm-hmm.
That's important.
Like just be intentional about it.
Don't just do it to check a box.
I find a lot ofcorporations are like that.
I would also recommendchecking in with your staff.
Emotional support is important too,especially in behavioral health.
Mm-hmm.
You would think that working inbehavioral health, you would know better.
(49:42):
But what I've found is they'rejust completely oblivious to it,
or they don't want to recognize it.
But do you think some of it is justnot being willing to be uncomfortable,
you know, sitting in a situationwhere they don't know what to do?
Yeah.
They don't know how to handleit and so they handle it poorly.
They don't have the skills orthey don't have the intention
to sit with that discomfort.
(50:02):
That plays a big part.
I, I think that a lot of times it'sjust surface level, but if we are
willing to get uncomfortable and haveconversations with everyone in the room
we can definitely make some progress.
And then also checking yourbiases like we all have them.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and being able to talkabout that in the workplace, it's
(50:23):
almost like those conversations areoff the table a lot of the times.
You know, we take the training,but we're not really having
the discussions in the rooms.
Yeah.
Those people are afraid to say something.
Afraid to say something.
Yeah.
And
I hear that too, a lot.
Not necessarily just witha transgender issue, but.
Racial issues and other things too that
Yeah.
(50:43):
Oh, I'm afraid to say anything.
You know, people say,oh, I'm not PC enough.
I don't know what I'm
mm-hmm.
supposed to say and whatI'm not supposed to say,
and so they get all hung up, or reallyget defensive with that kind of thing.
So I don't know what to say, soI'm not going to say anything.
Have you seen that type of situation?
Did you experience any of that?
Oh, a lot of times in my workplace.
Yeah.
(51:05):
A lot of times I, I was probablythe, the one with the loudest voice,
which is probably what caused,you know, the, um, attention.
Mm-hmm.
Because I did, I didgive a lot of pushback.
I did ask questions.
Even when I would go to appointments,there was times where I would get
misgendered in my chart, where thegender marker was big and bold.
(51:27):
Like, how can you get it wrong?
You know?
And just following up with that,with management, it was from having
a conversation with management,that we had an inclusion training.
You know, it's either you'requiet or you say something.
And I'm not the type of personto be quiet, and me not being
quiet is what brought me here.
Oh, I can relate to that.
(51:50):
Yeah.
Neither of you are keeping quiet, are you?
No.
Thank you for not keeping quiet.
Someone's got to do it.
So, and I also want, you know, patientscoming along to feel supported and seen,
so, you know, I know it's bigger than me.
Yeah.
Well, and, that's what Wendyand I are trying to do too.
because we know it'sbigger than the two of us.
(52:10):
Yeah.
And involving people andgetting this out there.
You know, I, I think if people can meetpeople who are born transgender and
their families and that type of thing,you know, different types of people,
that maybe we're planting some seeds.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and trying toget those seeds watered and just
opening up minds just a crack,
(52:32):
to kinda let some light in.
And hopefully, one dayit will be wide open.
But anyway, that's what I wanna do.
And I think Wendy too, isto open up a few minds.
I think you two are doing anamazing job, and I see you, I
see you two doing that already.
Just going on your social medias,listening to your videos and
the conversations, especiallyyou as a cisgender woman, you
(52:54):
don't see that oftentimes.
When you talk about allies, youknow, allies only show up when
it's mostly convenient for them.
Mm-hmm.
But, I feel like fromobservation, it seems like you're
in the trenches with Wendy.
And so that's what we need more of.
And that's exactly whyI absolutely love Lynn.
(53:15):
Yeah.
She has been the most open,
yeah.
and curious, and wanting to learn.
Yeah.
And that's a wonderful trait.
Yes.
And I really feel like at my age, and Sam,I'm 75, just a year younger than Wendy.
But you know, I feel like thisis something that I have to do.
(53:36):
People ask me, why, why do you do this?
Yeah.
And when I'm thinking back the wholeprocess, and I think I told Wendy
this, I never wanted to be a writer,never even knew what a podcast was,
you know, when I was growing up.
But, but I always wanted to be a teacher.
And that's where I'm at, is that, youknow, I, I taught grade school, I taught
(53:57):
corporate trainings and things like that.
And I did have a client who asked me todo diversity training for their faculty.
And when I said, what do they want?
He said, we wanna check the box.
It's like, okay, we can do that.
And what else do you wanna do?
But, you know, I just feel so committed.
I hate to see what's going on, andespecially all the time Wendy and I have
spent together, you know, talking to you,talking to some of these other people,
(54:20):
it just breaks my heart to think ofsome of the things that may be happening
politically if certain things come about.
Yeah.
For no reason, there isjust no reason for it.
What, what does your transitiondo to harm anybody else?
There's absolutely nothing.
If anything, it improves the world.
(54:42):
It does because you become a much happier,fulfilled, wonderful person in the process
and of much better mental health thana lot of people who are our critics.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want our transition and ourjourney to empower someone else.
Even if you're not trans, it's just, itgives you the permission to be yourself.
(55:06):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
If we could all be that and do that, Ithink the world would be a better place.
Be you and do you.
Yeah.
And don't ask permission.
Yeah.
We would be much happier as a societyif we didn't just have to check boxes.
Yeah.
Or just follow in the fearof something that's not real.
(55:26):
Yeah.
That just blows my mind.
Well, so many people believe thatthe thoughts they have and the
beliefs they hold are reality.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When, their beliefs are justthe result of their thoughts.
Yes.
That's it.
Yes.
And the experiences come from that.
Mm-hmm.
So what you believe,you're going to experience.
So, I no longer believe I'mgoing to hell, so I no longer
(55:49):
have that experience of people.
I just, and I think backto it, I'm like, wow.
You know, my sister and I weretalking about this yesterday.
Mm-hmm.
And we grew up in a church, youknow, kind of a traditional church.
And she and I both remember,she's two years younger.
Both remember sitting in Sunday schoolwhere the Sunday school teacher said
(56:10):
that unless you're baptized, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, you know,
you're, you're going to go to hell.
And both of us, without knowingthis from each other years
later, we're comparing notes.
And both of us questioned this and said,so you mean if the missionaries don't
get to the middle of Africa or the middleof China, or you know, a baby's born
(56:30):
and you know, something happens thatthose people are going to go to hell?
And it was like, yeah, you're damn right.
They are.
You know?
And, and as a child, Icouldn't understand that.
It just made no sense to me at all.
Yeah.
But that's, that's the way people who arelocked into that believe and they can't
(56:50):
get outside that box of thinking, what if.
Yeah.
It's all control.
You got it.
It's all control.
It's also a way to not acknowledge thepower that we have as human beings.
Yeah.
Because then we would be forcedto be accountable for our choices.
We can't blame God andwe can't blame the devil.
What a concept.
(57:11):
We are humanizing, beingborn transgender together.
Yes.
And thank you so much for that.
Wendy, did you have any otherquestions before we wind this up today?
Sam, you've been amazing.
Thank you so much for being here andtalking with us so openly and so candidly.
You're wonderful.
(57:31):
I hope I did a good job.
Oh, you did.
You know, whatever we said,I always forget things, but
whatever we talked about is whatwe were supposed to talk about.
That that's my belief.
Let's give a plug for your business.
Talk a little bit about yourBe You, Do You coaching program
and how people can contact you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So right now the best way to contactme is through beyoudoyoucoaching.com.
(57:55):
I am offering one-on-one coaching.
I also have some packages up.
I'm also looking for guests to be onmy Be You, Do You podcast where you can
come on and share your story and journey.
Yes, Wendy, we have to connect.
Uh, yeah.
So best way to reach meis beyoudoyoucoaching.com.
I also have a merchandise store.
Be You, Do You merchandise,t-shirts, coffee mugs,
(58:16):
stickers, you name it, buttons.
Um, also working on a journal likewriting a authenticity journal.
So that's in the works.
And I host a support group everysecond Sunday of the month.
So if anyone is interested injoining the support group, my email
is beyoudoyoucoaching@gmail.com.
(58:38):
And is it only for LGBTQ+ people or,
We are open to the transcommunity and allies.
Because this is definitelygoing to bridge the gap.
Having conversations with all of us,
that's the only way we'regoing to move forward.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're kinda on the same pagethere, aren't we, Wendy?
Absolutely.
Having those uncomfortable conversations.
(59:00):
So Sam, anything else youwanna share before we sign off
for this wonderful podcast?
No, I just, uh, appreciate being able tocome on and share my experience and story.
Hopefully we can have a part two.
Okay, we'll put that on our agenda.
We're going to do part two, two, Sam.
Definitely.
And for our audience, thankyou for joining us today.
I know this has been fabulous withour wonderful guest, Sam Castle.
(59:24):
So rate, review, share this out.
Subscribe to our podcast, subscribeto our YouTube channel, and stay
tuned for the next episode ofDemystifying the Transgender Journey.
I'm Lynn Murphy.
This has been Wendy Cole andour wonderful guest, Sam Castle.
We'll see you next time.
Thanks everybody.
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
(59:46):
the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, thetransgenderjourney.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
It was through my experience ofhiring a coach who helped me work
through my mindset and remindedme that nothing was wrong with me.
I wasn't broken because I hadtaken on that belief for so long.
Like, like something was wrong with me.
I had cooties, or I wasgoing to go to hell.
I thought I had to fix that.
I thought that getting baptized wasgoing to wash it away, and uh, it didn't.
(00:23):
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to Demystifying theTransgender Journey in our conversations
with people who were born transgender,their families, friends, and the
professionals who support them, weask probing questions and discover
(00:43):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find more information onour website, thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now, let's get right into today's episode.
Well, welcome everybody.
Thank you for joining us foranother episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
I'm Lynn Murphy.
I am the founder of Women Who Push theLimits and collaborator with my amazing
(01:07):
co-host, Wendy Cole, who is a transitionmentor, a life coach, and a consultant.
And between the two ofus, hosting this podcast.
And people always find it interestingthat a cisgender woman and a transgender
woman have paired up to do thisDemystifying the Transgender Journey.
But what we're trying to do iseducate people who are misinformed,
(01:30):
or disinformed, or have badinformation about what's going on.
Wendy transitioned at the age of 67, soyou're going to hear a little bit about
her experience tied in with this today.
And we are so happy to have Sam Castleas our wonderful interviewee today.
Sam is the founder ofBe You, Do You Coaching.
(01:52):
He's a behavioral healthprofessional, a coach, a podcaster,
so he's going to be good today.
And a public speaker.
He is 42 years old and hetransitioned at age 36.
So we're going to ask Sam, sharea bit of your story with us.
And, and just full disclosurefor me, I don't know that
(02:14):
much about trans-masculine.
Mm-hmm.
I've talked to more trans-feminine people.
But share your story with us.
Tell us where it started, howyou're doing, what you did.
Let's go through this.
Wow.
Well, well thank you for that,that amazing introduction.
So, I'm Sam Castle.
I knew at a very young age, I alreadyknew who I was, at the age of six.
(02:38):
I grew up in a single parent household.
My mom was primarily the provider.
My mom and grandmother.
My dad struggled with drug addiction.
I just remember a lot of timesthe household was very chaotic
and busy because my mom wasalways in a caretaking role.
So when it came to talking aboutsexual orientation, identity, that was
never a conversation in my household.
(03:00):
I think a lot of it has todo with cultural, and also
religious beliefs and background.
So I grew up in the church,uh, heavy in the church.
So the Church, church of Christ.
Okay, thanks.
So my mom actually grew up inChurch of Christ and then of course
that was passed down to the kids.
We have to go to church Wednesday, Sunday.
(03:21):
You know, that was the beliefthat was instilled in us.
And so that was the belief that Iheld onto and a part of the fear of
why I wasn't able to disclose, oreven bring it up in conversation.
I also didn't have the language.
I couldn't identify orexplain how I was feeling.
I just knew that I was a boy.
(03:43):
That was the best way that Icould describe what I was feeling.
I was a boy.
Never felt aligned with beingfemale, nothing female at all.
Like toys, clothing.
I cut my ponytail offwhen I was six years old.
Ran with the boys, didall of the boy things.
It was never a phase.
When I look back at the age of six,I always envisioned myself getting
(04:06):
married to a woman, having kids,having the house in the picket fence.
Like that was my vision for myself.
And then when I found out,uh, voila, you're not a boy.
I was, I was pissed, I was angry, Iwas sad, I was hurt, I was confused.
Because all this time I thought I wasa boy and no one was correcting me.
(04:29):
But did you even know whatthat was all about at that age?
That's a pretty young age to tryand make sense of all of this.
No, I had no clue.
But when I looked back,the signs were there.
I cut my ponytail off, wheneverI was forced to wear a dress.
I couldn't wait to get hometo change out of my dress.
I always kept like a, a dufflebag whenever we would go to church
or go to family member's houseto have dinner after church.
(04:51):
I always had a pack of clothes becauseI couldn't wait to get out of the dress.
It just made my skincrawl like it was just.
I felt trapped in the wrong body.
Yeah.
I can tell you that now, like,looking back, like that's how I felt.
So when
you were a teen, you weregoing through puberty?
Yeah.
What was that like?
Well, that was hell.
(05:12):
So, so when I started pubertyand started developing, I
started questioning even more.
Like, I remember when I firststarted, I went to my older cousin.
We grew up together, wewore the same clothes.
We were twins all theway up until high school.
They dressed us alike.
She happens to be a lesbian, by the way.
Uh, but we talk about it all the time.
(05:33):
She said, I always knew, likeshe was my confidant back then.
And I went to her when Istarted, you know, my cycle.
I was, I was afraid, like,I'm like, I'm, I'm bleeding.
What, what, what the hell is this?
But it was just a bunch of confusion.
Like I, I still didn't know.
So when I did come out to my mom at 18, Icame out as lesbian, because that was the
(05:55):
closest that I could get to how I felt.
I was always masculine presenting.
So when I came out to my mom, I,I told her I'm a, I'm a lesbian.
I'm attracted to girls.
But I was met with, well, I'm notgoing to let the devil take your soul.
I should have taken you to church more.
I should have done this.
I should have done that.
And so there was no way I could tell her,well mom, I'm actually not a lesbian.
(06:18):
I feel like this.
So my entire journeywas navigating it alone.
I been outta the house since I was 22.
I moved to San Franciscowith my partner at the time.
And that exposed me to a lot, a lotof resources around gender transition.
Just, just around adulthood.
Like I got a lot of exposure.
(06:40):
What year was that?
Do you remember?
Uh, in 2004 I moved outta the house.
Wow.
At 22.
Okay.
Yeah.
So then once you got to know morelesbians, more LGBTQ+ people, did
you start meeting transgender people?
Had you figured that piece out yet?
No.
So, no one in my family thatI knew of, was LGBT at all.
(07:04):
I didn't find out until I was22, that my mom's mom, her sister
transitioned from male to female.
I didn't find this out until 21, 22 yearsold, but I never got the opportunity to
talk to them because they moved away.
Mm-hmm.
And there was never a discussion.
(07:25):
It was more so of that unspoken, it wasjust, you don't, you don't talk about it.
Mm-hmm.
So the only, the first experiencethat I had with someone who was
transgender, transgender-masculine,I started watching a documentary
on YouTube called The Aggressives.
And at the time, this person identifiedas a masculine lesbian, but then they
(07:46):
soon, eventually transitioned to male.
And so that was when I was able to connectthe dots and was like, this is what it is.
Like, okay, I have someonethat looks like me.
It was another African Americanmasculine identified lesbian, but then
transitioned to male and they weretelling their story and it was almost
like they were telling my story, too.
(08:06):
And what year was that?
Do you remember offhand?
I was, at this time I was 24.
Okay.
2006. Yep.
So there was a medical clinic in SanFrancisco that offers like low cost
medical services where I could seea therapist, I could see a doctor.
So I immediately startedseeing a therapist, a doctor.
(08:28):
But at this time, the term genderaffirming care wasn't a thing.
Mm-hmm.
We weren't calling it that.
At that point we were still apsychological with no treatment,
Yes.
And no cure per the therapeuticcommunity and the medical community,
which didn't change until 2012.
Yes.
It was still considered a disorderand when I got connected to the
(08:51):
doctor, the doctor's role was tocreate me a good letter for me to
get approved for any type of surgery.
So, I started working towards gettingtop surgery, but, it got denied because
they deemed it "cosmetic" at the time.
Mm-hmm.
So, I kept running into all thesehurdles and all these roadblocks.
But like Wendy said, then genderaffirming care came along in 2012.
(09:15):
Well, the organization that I hadan opportunity to work for started
gender affirming care in 2013, andthe same therapist that I had back
in my twenties happened to be mysame gender affirming therapist when
I started working for this healthhealthcare organization years later.
So I kind of felt like everything wentin the full circle, like even though
(09:37):
I wasn't able to transition early on,the star, the stars, if you would say
were, they were aligning, like allthe experiences led me up to, to now.
So other than the therapists andthe doctors, did you have, friends
or coworkers, or anybody who wasreally helpful on this journey?
No, I was solo.
(09:58):
I was pretty much solo.
Hmm.
I was pretty much solo.
That's why I'm, I totally
relate to that.
I was pretty much solo.
So all of the like, pros and consI had to go through by myself.
Like all of the hiccups, Ihad to go through myself.
I went to therapy alone.
All of my doctor's appointments alone.
I got remarried because the personI was with previously said, I didn't
(10:21):
get with you for you to transition.
If I wanted a man, Iwould've gotten with a man.
So, that was another barrier of whyI didn't transition then, because my
partner at the time wasn't going for it.
So I had to compromise, youknow, compromise my happiness.
And so when I met my now wife, I, I sharedwith her like right away, I said, this
(10:41):
is how I feel, how I've always felt.
I'm not compromising this time around.
And she's been my biggest supporter.
Oh, and how long haveyou two been together?
We've been married since 2018.
Oh, good.
So now you've got some support,you've got a loving relationship.
Yes.
That's amazing.
I have a community of peoplenow who looks like me, who I
(11:03):
can, you know, identify with.
I mean, I have a diverse group offriends, straight LGBT, the whole rainbow.
I love it.
Congratulations on that.
Yes.
Congratulations.
That's excellent.
Thank you.
I can totally relateto what you just said.
Yeah, it was, it was lonely upuntil I transitioned in 2018,
(11:24):
it was a pretty lonely road.
Mm-hmm.
And were, were youchecking YouTube, Googling?
How were you finding informationonce you identified that this
was, you know, transgender?
I was Googling, I wasresearching, watching videos.
So, I got hired by, I don'twanna say their names because I'm
still going through a process.
I actually resigned from this healthcareorganization April of last year.
(11:48):
I finally walked away, verytoxic work environment.
Couldn't be myself, I'll leave it at that.
But they played a big part, likein, I was able to pay for my gender
affirming care from hormones, surgeries.
Mm-hmm.
So even though it didn't work outemployment wise, it worked out
as far as getting my healthcareresources and needs met.
(12:11):
So when I got hired by them in 2015,I found out that they had gender
affirming care, or they offered it.
So I was able to reconnect with services.
And like I said, the therapist thatI happened to have in 2015 was my
same therapist before when I wasin my twenties doing my research.
(12:32):
Hmm.
And so they were supportingthat within the organization?
Yes.
Even though there was some other issue,but that, that wasn't the issue then.
Right.
And did you come out, did youtransition in front of your coworkers?
You know, what was the process there?
How did that work?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I got hired with the organization in2015, but I didn't transition till 2018.
(12:55):
So the hurdle wasn'tmy partner at the time.
The hurdle now was still familialexpectations and just, I was
afraid of losing my family.
So I was already met with, youknow, the response I got from my
mom when I came out as lesbian.
So I was like, how the hell am Igoing to tell her I'm transitioning?
(13:16):
And so I actually, when I had my firstsurgery, I told her I was just getting
a breast reduction because of my back.
Hmm.
So that's how I shared that with her.
But then I slowly just started opening upbecause I also went back to therapy too.
So that was, that was a big help inhelping me address issues with my
(13:37):
mom and family and everything that Iwas repressing up until that point.
It gave me more confidence to have theconversations that I needed to have.
And you got help with setting boundaries.
Yes.
And because boundaries arevery important, especially if
you're staying with family Yes.
Or your family.
(13:58):
Yes.
I got good at setting boundaries.
I got good at speaking up for myself.
I got good at just showing up forme because up until that point
I was showing up for everyoneelse and neglecting myself.
And so transitioning for me, I feltlike it was a complete transformation.
Like not just physical, butmentally, emotionally, spiritual too.
(14:19):
It just gave me the confidencethat I, that I needed to be
able to walk this journey.
That's where you get your mantraof you don't need permission.
Yes.
And that's who you're, yeah.
And so when I transitioned in 2018,that was a reminder for me, like,
Be You, Do You like, be yourself.
You don't need permission.
So that's pretty much how that mantracame about was through my transition.
(14:40):
Yeah.
So what, go ahead, Wendy.
Uh, what were your challengesduring that transition?
Your biggest challenges, bothphysically and emotionally?
My biggest challenge, uh, ofcourse was the family piece.
I felt like it caused a, a wedge forsure, because no one understood it.
(15:02):
I was getting like mixed responses.
Some family members were,oh, we already knew.
And then my mom was completely oblivious.
I even.
Took a step farther and invitedher to the, like, one of my therapy
sessions to give her her own spaceto explore her feelings and thoughts.
Mm-hmm.
The therapist was actuallynot my own therapist.
I researched on my own, found hera Christian based therapist that
(15:26):
shared the same beliefs as her.
So just imagine how uncomfortableI was, but I, again, I
wanted to make my mom happy.
Right.
And how, how has the relationshipsprogressed since 2018?
It's gotten better.
She still has issues with the pronouns.
She's able to call me Sam, somy birth name was Samantha.
(15:48):
Mm-hmm.
Which wasn't easy to change it.
Right.
It's, I, I, I feel likeit was meant to be.
It was meant to be.
Right.
She calls me Sam, but she still has, uh.
A hard time with the pronouns.
Mm-hmm.
But she does correct herself.
So we, we have made progress.
Uh, it's still not as close asI want it to be but I feel like
it's just going to take time andI just continue to move forward.
(16:10):
You know, if she catchesup, she catches up.
If she
doesn't, she doesn't.
That's exactly what I say all the time,is our family has to transition with us.
Mm-hmm.
And if they don't, youknow, that's basically it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I have also found along the way, I'vemet some amazing people that have become
(16:30):
family and my biggest support system.
Exactly.
So family is just who you're related to?
For me now, it's allabout relationships and
connections with people.
Yes.
The
gay community was my biggest supporters.
How were they to you?
I.
That's a good question.
(16:50):
I would say after my transition becauseI was able to be more authentic and be
myself, relationships have been, havebeen easier because I know who I am now.
I don't ha, I don't feel likeI have to play, play a role.
I'm curious.
Mm-hmm.
From very early on I was very open withgay people, but with straight people,
(17:14):
I let them get to know me first mm-hmm.
For quite a while beforeI ever came out to them.
Mm-hmm.
What's your approach to that?
I'm pretty much the same way, I want, Iwant the person to get to know me first.
Mm-hmm.
But it's so weird because I'mmore open and comfortable with
the straight community, mm-hmm.
(17:35):
than I am with my own community.
And, and because at the, at the end ofthe day, I've always gotten respect from
the straight community and they're like.
I would've never thought otherwise.
And at first I would be offensive to that,but then I also take it as a compliment.
Mm-hmm.
Because they see me as
me.
Yeah.
Now, yeah.
(17:56):
I found that it's also locationdependent too because, uh, when I,
where I live before, a lot of straightpeople would say, oh, that's okay.
And then quietly disappear.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, did you experience the samething or something similar?
It was the complete opposite.
(18:16):
Oh, okay.
Like, I've had the straightcommunity embrace me even more
and like, support me even more.
So a lot of my coachesand mentors are straight.
They're not LGBT.
A lot of my, the peoplein my circle are straight.
They're not
LGBT at all.
Now I moved fromPennsylvania to Rhode Island.
Rhode Island has been wonderful.
(18:37):
Yeah.
Very open, very welcoming and.
Straight community's been great.
Yeah.
So like, I think it's all about
location.
Mm-hmm.
Definitely
location.
And I would say educationplays a big piece.
Mm-hmm.
I feel like now a lot of, regardlessof what the media is saying,
people are open to learning.
(18:58):
But we're not seeing that on the media of,we're not going to see that in the media.
And, and definitely we won'tbe seeing that in the media.
We're going to, that's been my sameexperience too, Sam, is I would
sit and, uh, talk with people andthey were curious and with your
approach, same as my approach.
(19:21):
Ask anything you wish andAbsolutely nothing's off limits.
Mm-hmm.
That just really draws people in.
Yeah.
To engage.
Yeah.
And it changes perspectives.
It does.
I just had the same experiencewith my wife's sister.
We just had this longconversation yesterday.
I always come to her with theapproach of, I'm an open book.
(19:43):
There's no dumb questions.
And you know, like I was explainingto her like, my next, I'm
preparing for my next surgery.
And so, you know, I was open aboutthat and explaining, you know, the
process and she was asking the questionsand I never thought that that would
even happen because before her, hermindset was completely different.
It was like, I don't wanna hear aboutit, I don't wanna know about it.
(20:05):
But it's just, I feel like the more theperson gets to know who you are I've
realized that we're, we're no different.
We just have a different journey
because I've always, I, I heara lot within the community
about how people hate us.
No,
but I have not experiencedthat personally.
Have You?
(20:25):
No, mine have been likeisolated incidents.
Like my last incident that I had was twoyears ago at my workplace parking lot.
This was before I started HO Hormones,so there weren't any changes and this
person assumed and started calling meall kinds of names and getting irate and
(20:46):
tranny this, tranny that in this, in that.
But it's also the location I live in.
I live in a very Trump, likeTrump town, you can call it.
But other than that, I don't, Idon't get any hate from people.
Did you start transitioningsocially phy, you know, just
the physical outward appearance?
Was that gradual or was that somethingthat you just kind of one day?
(21:09):
Well, when I was younger,I feel like I was always.
I al already, I had already sociallytransitioned because when I was younger,
I wanted people to call me by Sam.
Mm-hmm.
I never wanted them tocall me by my birth name.
When I was old enough to buymy own clothes, I started
shopping in the men's department.
Mm-hmm.
Like, everything was you know, male.
So I started with top surgery first in2018, and then hormones two years later.
(21:33):
So, 2020, I started hormones.
I wanted to give myself time.
I, I wasn't sure if Iwanted the hormones or not.
So I needed time to just sit inwith the surgery first before , you
know, taking my next step.
Mm-hmm.
And then I startedhormones two years later.
How did that feel when you first started?
(21:56):
I always get asked that,that's why I'm asking you.
It is like a butterfly.
It it, I don't know if you'refamiliar with the butterfly process,
but I share the butterfly process.
It was almost like going into a cocoonand then you're blossoming into this
butterfly and it's uncomfortable at timesbecause again, emotions are coming up.
(22:17):
Emotions came up to the surface,like literally everything
from childhood to that point.
But then it's also transformational.
So it was a combination.
You experienced during that,a lot of doubts, a lot of
doubt, and limiting beliefs.
And how did you overcome them?
Um, I hired a coach.
(22:38):
Okay.
So it was through, it was throughmy experience of hiring a coach who
helped me work through my mindset.
Mm-hmm.
My limiting beliefs, my childhood trauma.
And reminded me thatnothing was wrong with me.
I wasn't broken because I hadtaken on that belief for so long.
Like, like something was wrong with me.
I had cooties or I wasgoing to go to hell.
(22:59):
I thought I had to fix that.
I thought that getting baptized wasgoing to wash it away and, uh, it didn't.
Mm-hmm.
So, speaking of your religion or yourfaith, do you still have a faith?
Uh, you know, what, what's the impactof that religious upbringing and
your mother's feelings about, youknow, what's going to happen to you?
(23:20):
What, what, how has that progressed?
I don't believe it anymore becauseagain, it boils down to a belief.
And the moment I stopped believing it waswhen I started transitioning, I realized
it was more of her own fear, not mine.
So I allowed her to, Igave her her fear back.
And I am spiritual.
I have my own spiritual practices.
I'm not connected withthe same church anymore.
(23:43):
I left that church in 2017and never looked back.
So I have my own spiritual practices.
I do believe in a higherpower, but my spirituality has
definitely evolved over time.
Like I'm a respecter of awe mm-hmm.
Practices and religions.
I don't believe in like yourreligion is right or wrong.
(24:05):
You're allowing other people to be whothey are and you're being Absolutely.
Yes.
And, and listening to your storyabout using a coach, that feeds
into what you do as a coach.
Yeah.
You know how, you know how to
Yeah.
Talk to
people who are transitioning, peoplewho are having concerns about it.
Mm-hmm.
So you're perfect positionto do that, aren't you, Sam?
(24:25):
Yeah.
I feel like coaching alsohelped me confirm my purpose in
what I'm supposed to be doing.
Like it, it helped me.
It helped get back to me and whoI actually am as a person and how
I want to help others around me.
And I feel like through my own livedexperience, I'm able to do that.
And isn't that interesting how we haveto go through these experiences that
(24:47):
may not be the most fun experiences?
That's not life.
Yeah.
But it puts you where you're supposedto be, where your soul or the universe
says, Sam, this is what you've gotta do.
So here, here's what we needto lead up to that with.
Yeah.
In that moment it felt likehell, it was uncomfortable.
Like, like Wendy said, I had all of thesebelief systems and shame and guilt, but
(25:09):
looking back, it all served its purpose.
Yeah.
That's kind the way I look at it too.
It's the universe puts thesethings in your path and
yeah.
Lead you
in that
direction.
And the universe has done that, so yeah.
While we have, you know, all of thisstuff happening with the election,
like I'm just trying to, trying tostay focused on what I can control.
(25:30):
You know,
that's all
we
can do.
Yeah.
You know, and we're hearing things,silly things about people who are, you
know, un unhappy with their transition.
They wanna detransition and some of those,it's just such a minute number of people.
But was there ever any time when youthought, oh, I'm going to stop this.
I'm not going to do this?
(25:51):
No.
Okay.
I never thought, I neverthought about that.
And even when I do think aboutDetransition, like I said, I'm
also a respecters of, you know,other people and their experiences.
And if that's something that theywant to do, then that's their journey.
But I also feel like the reason why,which it's been reported, it's the
familial and societal expectations.
(26:13):
So we don't detransition because we'reunhappy, we de detransition because
we're trying to make everyone else happy.
Uh, a lot of times alsopeople who detransition, it's
because they didn't mentally,emotionally transition themselves.
Yes.
They just did the outwardappearance and we're done.
(26:35):
Yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
I'm glad you mentioned that mental, mentalhealth is a huge part, like mentally,
emotionally, that's a part of it too.
It's not so much the outer appearance,it's the inner, the inner work.
It's required.
It,
you have to, it just, youwere socialized as female.
I was socialized as male.
(26:55):
I went through a lot ofwork to deconstruct that.
How did you do?
I'm still de deconstruct.
Well, no, it is a work in progress.
I'm, I'm still, I'm still, you know,figuring it out, but I give myself
room to explore, uhhuh and learn.
Like for example, beforetransition, I wanted nothing
(27:16):
to do with fingernail polish.
Well, one day I experimented, I wentto the nail shop with my wife and I was
like, oh, let's try some nail polish.
I don't like it, but I gave myselfpermission to explore, you know?
Good.
And not putting a label to it.
Like, oh, only men, you know, men looklike this, or women look like this.
Like, I've, I've gotten over
(27:37):
that.
Yeah.
The first time I had my nails donein a salon, I was in guy mode.
Yeah.
And I was told that men comein and have their nails done.
Okay.
I tried it.
Yeah,
Yeah, yeah.
I'm just, you know, I'mopen, I'm open to trying.
Yeah.
Like even around sexual orientationand exploration, like my wife mm-hmm.
(28:00):
We have conversations about that, likewhere we're at, you know, how we feel.
Because when I, when I startedtestosterone I was primarily attracted to
women, but then I had situations to whereI was questioning it, and then I connected
the dots and I said, well, I've alwaysidentified as a man, so it's not now that
(28:22):
I'm comfortable in my own skin mm-hmm.
This is, this is what it is.
I feel like I'm, I'm tryingto explain it, I think, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Well,
sexual orientation are
different.
Yeah.
Is, and it develops at the sametime in the second trimester in
different parts of the brain.
Yeah.
(28:42):
And what I found is I wasrepressing my feminine Yeah.
Uh, qualities to a point where Ialso repressed my sexual orientation.
Yes.
I married a woman becausethat was a checkbox in the
heteronormative scheme of life.
Right.
One of the things too, fora little girl, six years old
(29:05):
mm-hmm.
Wanting to wear boys' clothes andplay with boys, you had more freedom
to do that, I think, than I did.
Yeah, there was a lot of freedom.
Because freedom of societal norms.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
You could be a tomboy.
Yeah.
And that's what everyone was labeling it.
(29:27):
Right?
Oh, you're a tomboy,you'll grow out of it.
Oh, I heard the same thing too.
But I didn't, I didn't grow out of it.
But yeah, it's, it's been alot of exploration for sure.
I am primarily attracted to women,but again, it was like, even those
questions were coming up because again,as a kid, I had to repress all of that.
Mm-hmm.
I wasn't able to address it.
(29:47):
So, the transition has helpedme address those things as well.
Yeah, after surgery
is when I figured out what mytrue sexual orientation was.
Yeah.
Much to my amazement and shock.
Because you weren't attracted tomen when you were a man, were you?
No.
(30:07):
Being with a guy was gross.
Well, and that's what'sdifferent with Sam.
You know, Sam, you were attracted towomen when you were in a woman's body, and
society kind of accepts that, you know?
Yeah.
You have lesbian relationships.
You didn't have to marry somebodyto prove that you were a girl,
a woman, that kind of thing.
Right.
I did force myself into, you know, theheterosexual relationships, but they were
(30:30):
just uncomfortable and I always felt likeone of the guys, it was just so awkward.
It was awkward to say the least.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what we do to conformto all the standards that we
were socialized from childhood.
Yeah.
From the time we're born allthe way through, were treated.
By the sex assigned at birth as opposedto the gender that we really are.
(30:55):
One other thing that Wendy and Iwere talking about, because neither
she nor I is a person of color.
Mm-hmm.
And wondering if there's some difference.
I don't know.
Wendy, did you wanna to pursue,did you have a question on that or?
Sure.
I
see all the statistics ontrans-feminine people that are
killed during the course of a year.
(31:17):
Yeah.
And the vast majority are peopleof color and then there'll be
a few white people in there.
Yeah.
And I've never quitereally understood that.
And you mentioned inthe beginning cultural.
Yeah.
Can you go into that?
Yeah.
Well, it's a big taboo to beanything else but straight.
(31:39):
Lesbian, gay, bi, trans.
So I had to repress that part of myself.
And so a lot of it is cultural.
And then also with, uh, trans women ofcolor, uh, you get into the situation
with black men who, like you said, areconditioned to repress who they are.
And so when they find out they areattracted to a trans woman, you know, it's
(32:04):
either I explore it or I have to keep ithidden, which is I have to keep it hidden.
So then that's ultimately a lot ofcases, it's because of that, like men
being on the down low aren't able toexpress who they truly are because
culturally, uh, black men are not gay.
You, you're not supposed to be gay.
(32:24):
You're not supposed tobe anything but straight.
So, okay, that plays a
big part of it.
Now, in terms of being transmasculine,is that easier within that culture
because like you're one of the guys now?
No, there's, there's still challenges.
Okay.
It
(32:44):
hasn't been my experience, but alot of transmasculine men that I
do know, they don't have very closerelationships with their families.
Mm-hmm.
So a lot of times it'sthe family that we choose.
And it's never our blood family.
I don't, I don't have that experience.
I mean, honestly, I've, I've beena, I don't wanna say estranged,
but I haven't seen a lot ofmy family since before COVID.
(33:08):
Okay.
I stay connected with my mom, butother than that, I don't really
have a connection with family.
Okay.
Do you have a
large family?
Huge family.
My great-grandmother had 13 kids.
Oh.
Wow.
There was always a house full of kids.
A lot of things going on.
That's why I, I'm not surprisedthat my mom says she didn't know.
(33:29):
I mean, she was the provider.
Yeah.
Well, what about children?
Do, do you have a desire to have children?
No.
My wife and I talked about it offand on, but we like our free life.
We have two dogs.
My dad actually currentlylives with us now.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
(33:50):
And he's obviously accepting?
He's very accepting.
He sees me as his son.
Nice.
Yeah.
I'm so happy for you.
That's really great.
Yeah, me too.
I was, I wasn't surprised because he andmy mom had a totally different upbringing.
Yeah, totally different.
What was the difference?
Well, my dad's side isn'treally heavily into religion.
(34:12):
Okay.
Oh.
I think that that plays a huge
part Yeah.
When someone's very much into religion.
If the other's not, that can be touchy.
Yeah.
It's just something that's, Ifind very hard to get away from.
It's like that belief is so deeplyingrained that it causes, you know,
people who are religious to live life.
(34:32):
I, I just, that's, it's, it's deep.
It's deep.
When I talk to a, a mother of atransgender daughter who is deep in
a religion and was treated very, verypoorly when her daughter transitioned.
Yeah.
It's tough.
And people are so ingrained inthat they can't, they can't,
(34:54):
it's either black or white.
They can't see thatthere are any variations.
They can't see that there areany other options other than-
No.
straight.
Straight.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then I also think, you know, whenI do reflect, I think it's more so,
our parents' inability to look in themirror themselves and maybe they're not
(35:17):
addressing their own childhood woundsor trauma, and we're the closest to
them to project their own feelings onto.
I think that that plays a huge part too,because it's, it's also generational.
Because , like I said, growingup, we didn't talk about therapy.
Therapy wasn't a thing.
We didn't talk about mental health.
We didn't even talk aboutsexuality in the house.
(35:37):
Well, and it's interesting because I lookat you as someone who's quite a few years
younger than I am, and I grew up in anera where you really didn't talk about it.
You didn't even darethink about it, you know?
Yeah.
That's why I say it's culturally, I thinkit's, it's really culturally because
I, I know a lot of trans-masc whiteindividuals where their parents and family
are embracive and, and, and supportive.
(35:58):
I, I definitely think it's just cultural.
And Sam, I know you do a lot of coaching.
You're out, you'respeaking, you're visible.
How do you balance advocatingfor the transgender community
versus your own self-care?
Is that an issue to get that balance?
I'm still figuring out.
So, you know, I spent the last14 years in corporate healthcare.
(36:19):
So being in entrepreneurshipis new for me still, but the
community has been very supportive.
I was able to sign my firstcoaching contract last year,
so I'm leading a support group.
I'm collaborating with another,uh, trans organization.
The phase that I'm in nowis the learning phase.
Like, I'm learning how to balancetaking care of myself, but then
also advocating for the community.
(36:40):
Leading up to the new year,I took a two week break off.
I didn't do anything advocacyrelated, work related, and
that was challenging to do.
Very challenging because I'm alsoworking through the result of
my, uh, toxic work environment.
So I have to be really connectedwith the emotional piece.
So I still, I still do therapy,which is important to me.
(37:03):
Like, I stay connected with my therapistand my mentors and just know that I don't
have to have it all figured out because
like I wanna have it figured all out.
I gotta see what it looks like.
But I'm in that learning phase right nowand just reminding myself everything's
going to be okay, because I neversaw myself walking away from my job.
But Do you have other practicesthat you recommend to other
(37:23):
people?
I work out, I do a gratitudejournal every single day.
I pray, I meditate, I go for walks.
My wife and I do traveling.
I'm a huge foodie, so we like to trydifferent foods, we cook at home.
My dogs have been ahuge emotional support.
Yeah.
They've, they've been lifesaving.
(37:43):
My dogs.
What kind of dogs do you have?
I have a Shihtzu and a Yorkie.
Oh, nice.
But yeah, I do, I do a lot of things.
I, I like staying connected tocommunity and, uh, personal development.
Like, that's been, that'sbeen my thing lately.
Are there some communities that yourecommend or that you are part of
that you wanna give a shout out to?
(38:04):
I like to give a shout out to theGlobal Trans Equity Project that
was founded by Dr. Elijah Nicholas.
I actually just graduatedfrom his cohort last year.
It used to be called 100 Black Trans Men,giving opportunities to Black Trans Men.
But now we represent not onlytrans men, but non-binary, gender
non-conforming, veterans, and seniors.
(38:28):
And this is a support group or?
Yeah, this is a support group.
I collaborate with the Global TransEquity hosting a support group.
People have people to talk to then, yes.
Rather than being in a vacuumlike you were for so many years.
Yeah.
Everyone in the organization, theyhave their own small business,
and so we just all collaboratetogether under this umbrella.
(38:48):
Oh, nice.
Okay.
If we put that in the show notes.
Yes.
Yes.
Tell people
about that.
That sounds like a excellent organization.
Yeah.
It's called, uh, gtep.org.
His vision is creating an inclusiveand affirming world for all of us.
So what, what kind of misinformationdo you run across most frequently,
or disinformation or people who areconfused about what this is all about?
(39:10):
Well, you said the word confused.
I see a lot of times peoplesaying we're confused and,
oh,
I can't tell you.
Like, I know myself betterthan anyone else does.
We're not confused.
We know at a very young age.
Myself, I didn't have thespace to explore who I was.
And so it took time.
I had to navigate andI had to figure it out.
(39:30):
But once I did, I, I canconfirm and affirm who I am.
I'm not confused.
So that's one.
We're not confused, we know.
We always know.
Well, and I think people in general,if they're into any type of personal
growth, maybe it's not about their gender,but go through phases of who they are.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
We all transition.
Yeah.
(39:50):
We hear women who have beenthe, the mother and the wife.
Mm-hmm.
Housekeeper and the cook and all thatfor so many years, and then come to a
point where all that's gone and thenthey're trying to figure out who they are.
So I, I can see where people wouldsay confused, does not make any sense
because those people aren't confused.
You're not confused.
Yeah.
(40:11):
We're not confused.
That's a very good point.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Another one, um, we touched onit, gender and sexual orientation
are two different things.
So for example, a female that transitionedto a man and then they date another
man, well, they're considered a gay man.
Sexual orientation andgender are different.
Your gender is how youidentify and orientation is who
(40:31):
you're sexually attracted to.
So that's another one where people get
mm-hmm.
The, the thing that I find is peopletend to equate sex with gender, Yes.
Because it's all between the legs Yes.
when the doctor assigns it at birth.
Yes.
And that's at best a guess.
(40:52):
Yes.
In reality, it's a guess.
Yes.
It is a guess.
You don't know.
Then by the time we begin to realizewho we really feel like, not maybe put
words to it, but how we feel, mm-hmm.
we've already gone through enoughof that socialization to know that
it's wrong- by their standards.
(41:13):
By their standards.
Yes.
That's a good one too.
And that's very hard to getacross to some straight people.
Yeah.
So Sam, in your coaching or just inyour interaction with other people who
are maybe thinking about transitioningor starting to transition, what
do you think is the most importantthing for them to consider to, to
(41:36):
do as they're at that initial point?
I'm, I'm always going to, uh,advocate for the mental health piece.
Like that's, that's important,like addressing old wounds
and childhood trauma.
Not staying and focusing on it, butat least addressing it because that
plays a huge part leading up totransitioning and moving forward.
Like for me, I couldn't move forwarduntil I addressed what was happening
(42:00):
in the past or identifying like whyI was showing up because I was, I was
very angry to the point where I'm beingtransparent now in my first marriage,
I went to jail because of my anger.
Because I was holding on so likeso much in me, I never really
(42:20):
shared this story, but yeah.
And, and I had, I hadshame and guilt from that.
And so I, I carried that with me.
Like even my mom telling me mysoul was going to go to hell.
I held onto that from 18 to thetime I transitioned at 36, 18 years.
And it wasn't until I went back totherapy and addressed all of that,
that I was able to move forward.
So mental health is very important.
(42:43):
You got rid of all of those pasttraumas to the point where you could
let go of them and they didn't formlimiting beliefs in your future life.
Yes, yes.
So when I meet someone, we are definitelygoing to tackle the limiting beliefs.
That's ultimately what holds us back.
Exactly.
I've had people start with me, andactually go from terrified and scared,
(43:10):
yeah.
full of doubts.
Yeah.
And six weeks later,they're living full time.
Full time.
Yeah.
We got through those limiting beliefs.
Mm-hmm.
And off they went all by themselves.
I didn't push.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not uncommon for people, forpeople to move forward once they do the
mental work that you're talking about.
(43:32):
Yeah, you're right.
And that's my focus is the mental work.
Because I feel like ultimately that'swhere we can heal and move forward.
And then, you know, the limitingbeliefs, and I do a lot of
goal setting and accountabilitybecause that's also important.
Mm-hmm.
Like knowing what direction you wanna goin life, and also knowing that you can,
you know, I realized I have a choice.
You know, I, for a long time, I,I thought I couldn't leave my job.
(43:55):
I was connected to the paycheck.
It was the most money I've ever madein my life, but, my mental health
was being greatly affected by theenvironment, and so I had to choose,
like, even in that, sometimes it'sscary, but we have to make a choice.
Either way, you're going to make thechoice or not, but either way, the
choice is going to be made, so youmight as well just get moving and just
(44:17):
figure it out.
One of the things that, uh, perplexesme a lot within our community mm-hmm.
Is I see people sitting in thesame support groups all around
the country where I sit in
Yeah.
And they never seem to make any progress.
It's, it's almost like the, thesupport group becomes a comfort zone
(44:37):
for them to just sit and stay, asopposed to taking steps forward.
Yeah.
I've noticed that.
But it goes back to,again, the limiting belief.
Mm-hmm.
You know,
I, I can't believe it for you.
And that's what I tell my clients.
As much as I wanna believeit for you, I can't, you have
to believe it for yourself.
(44:58):
Mm-hmm.
And I would just encouragewhoever's listening, don't,
don't get stuck in one spot.
Like, explore, be open, because you neverknow who's out there waiting for you.
Well, and Sam, you talkedabout your anger issues.
Yeah.
Wendy's talked about drugs and alcohol.
You know, different people have differentway of suppressing what's going on because
you feel like you have to suppress it.
But to be able then to clear all that,you know, without feeling guilty,
(45:21):
Wendy talks about feeling guilty,about, about marrying a woman, having
children, those types of things.
You know, but that, that, thatdoesn't serve at the point that
people are at, that you're at now.
So being able to let go of that andeven sharing that, that's something that
happened, something that you went through.
Yeah.
I held onto it for a long timebecause I was embarrassed and I
(45:43):
was, you know, telling myself likeyou shouldn't be acting this way.
You shouldn't be responding this way.
But I was never given theemotional tools to express myself.
So anger was the only wayI knew how to communicate.
Yeah.
And I think that's a good message forpeople, you know, understanding that, that
you, you may be showing up in a way that'snot really fitting into society, but
(46:05):
Yeah.
But you don't have the tools and youand Wendy can serve people with your
coaching and mentoring programs.
Give them the tools.
Yes.
I
think that's wonderful.
Thank you for doing that.
Thank you both of you.
Yeah.
I've found it very freeing, talking aboutmy guilt, my use of pot, and all of the
(46:27):
other stuff that I did to repress this.
Yeah.
Talking about your anger too might feelfreeing to you at some point as well.
Yeah.
Talking about it, and I, I knewwhere it came from, so it wasn't just
repressing everything and not beingable to be my authentic self, but it
was also, uh, shown in my household,so like I said, my dad struggled with
(46:49):
the drug addiction and alcohol, sowhen he and my mom were together,
that's what I saw.
I saw emotional, physicalabuse, and arguing on his end.
So I thought being in a relationship,that's what it looks like.
That's how I get my needs met.
That was your role model?
That was my role model, yeah.
And then, you know, they, theyseparated when I was in junior high.
(47:12):
And then, like I said, my mom was the soleprovider, so she still wasn't the example,
she wasn't, she wasn't very nurturing,
there was no attachment there betweenus, because her mom wasn't nurturing.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
It, it all rolls downhill, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what we see.
That's, that's how we think the world is.
(47:33):
Right.
Yeah.
And so now I was able to recognizethat and make a decision that I didn't
want my life to go down that path.
Yeah.
Congratulations.
I'm so happy for you.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, and, and Sam, earlier youmentioned about, about your employment.
Is that something youwanna talk about now?
Did that relate to yourtransgender journey or is that not
(47:54):
something you wanna talk about?
I can talk briefly.
So it's still an ongoing process.
So a part of my gender transitionis what created all of this
workplace, uh, turmoil, and thereason why I had to walk away.
It was a very toxic environment.
I couldn't be myself and Iwas pretty much pushed out.
That's also something I'm workingthrough with my therapist.
So again, I'm really intentionalabout my mental health because some
(48:18):
days are harder than others becauseI still go back to what could I have
done, you know, to make it better.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I had started doing a lot of,like I said, personal development
before I even transitioned and Iwas continuing with my personal
development and therapy even at work.
And so I thought it was something that Ihad to do to change me and how I showed up
(48:41):
to work, but it had nothing to do with me.
They just didn't want me there.
So what advice would you give to employersabout how to handle a situation like that?
I would say take the timeto listen to the employee.
I felt a lot of times they were dismissiveand, and wasn't really listening.
I would also encourage,take the training seriously.
(49:01):
It's almost like just checking a box formost employers, but I would encourage
taking the time to take those trainings,understanding it so that they can be more
supportive of their employees that areLGBTQ+, not even LGBTQ+, but just having
an environment that's, that has differentcultures and backgrounds and beliefs.
(49:21):
Mm-hmm.
That's important.
Like just be intentional about it.
Don't just do it to check a box.
I find a lot ofcorporations are like that.
I would also recommendchecking in with your staff.
Emotional support is important too,especially in behavioral health.
Mm-hmm.
You would think that working inbehavioral health, you would know better.
(49:42):
But what I've found is they'rejust completely oblivious to it,
or they don't want to recognize it.
But do you think some of it is justnot being willing to be uncomfortable,
you know, sitting in a situationwhere they don't know what to do?
Yeah.
They don't know how to handleit and so they handle it poorly.
They don't have the skills orthey don't have the intention
to sit with that discomfort.
(50:02):
That plays a big part.
I, I think that a lot of times it'sjust surface level, but if we are
willing to get uncomfortable and haveconversations with everyone in the room
we can definitely make some progress.
And then also checking yourbiases like we all have them.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and being able to talkabout that in the workplace, it's
(50:23):
almost like those conversations areoff the table a lot of the times.
You know, we take the training,but we're not really having
the discussions in the rooms.
Yeah.
Those people are afraid to say something.
Afraid to say something.
Yeah.
And
I hear that too, a lot.
Not necessarily just witha transgender issue, but.
Racial issues and other things too that
Yeah.
(50:43):
Oh, I'm afraid to say anything.
You know, people say,oh, I'm not PC enough.
I don't know what I'm
mm-hmm.
supposed to say and whatI'm not supposed to say,
and so they get all hung up, or reallyget defensive with that kind of thing.
So I don't know what to say, soI'm not going to say anything.
Have you seen that type of situation?
Did you experience any of that?
Oh, a lot of times in my workplace.
Yeah.
(51:05):
A lot of times I, I was probablythe, the one with the loudest voice,
which is probably what caused,you know, the, um, attention.
Mm-hmm.
Because I did, I didgive a lot of pushback.
I did ask questions.
Even when I would go to appointments,there was times where I would get
misgendered in my chart, where thegender marker was big and bold.
(51:27):
Like, how can you get it wrong?
You know?
And just following up with that,with management, it was from having
a conversation with management,that we had an inclusion training.
You know, it's either you'requiet or you say something.
And I'm not the type of personto be quiet, and me not being
quiet is what brought me here.
Oh, I can relate to that.
(51:50):
Yeah.
Neither of you are keeping quiet, are you?
No.
Thank you for not keeping quiet.
Someone's got to do it.
So, and I also want, you know, patientscoming along to feel supported and seen,
so, you know, I know it's bigger than me.
Yeah.
Well, and, that's what Wendyand I are trying to do too.
because we know it'sbigger than the two of us.
(52:10):
Yeah.
And involving people andgetting this out there.
You know, I, I think if people can meetpeople who are born transgender and
their families and that type of thing,you know, different types of people,
that maybe we're planting some seeds.
Mm-hmm.
You know, and, and trying toget those seeds watered and just
opening up minds just a crack,
(52:32):
to kinda let some light in.
And hopefully, one dayit will be wide open.
But anyway, that's what I wanna do.
And I think Wendy too, isto open up a few minds.
I think you two are doing anamazing job, and I see you, I
see you two doing that already.
Just going on your social medias,listening to your videos and
the conversations, especiallyyou as a cisgender woman, you
(52:54):
don't see that oftentimes.
When you talk about allies, youknow, allies only show up when
it's mostly convenient for them.
Mm-hmm.
But, I feel like fromobservation, it seems like you're
in the trenches with Wendy.
And so that's what we need more of.
And that's exactly whyI absolutely love Lynn.
(53:15):
Yeah.
She has been the most open,
yeah.
and curious, and wanting to learn.
Yeah.
And that's a wonderful trait.
Yes.
And I really feel like at my age, and Sam,I'm 75, just a year younger than Wendy.
But you know, I feel like thisis something that I have to do.
(53:36):
People ask me, why, why do you do this?
Yeah.
And when I'm thinking back the wholeprocess, and I think I told Wendy
this, I never wanted to be a writer,never even knew what a podcast was,
you know, when I was growing up.
But, but I always wanted to be a teacher.
And that's where I'm at, is that, youknow, I, I taught grade school, I taught
(53:57):
corporate trainings and things like that.
And I did have a client who asked me todo diversity training for their faculty.
And when I said, what do they want?
He said, we wanna check the box.
It's like, okay, we can do that.
And what else do you wanna do?
But, you know, I just feel so committed.
I hate to see what's going on, andespecially all the time Wendy and I have
spent together, you know, talking to you,talking to some of these other people,
(54:20):
it just breaks my heart to think ofsome of the things that may be happening
politically if certain things come about.
Yeah.
For no reason, there isjust no reason for it.
What, what does your transitiondo to harm anybody else?
There's absolutely nothing.
If anything, it improves the world.
(54:42):
It does because you become a much happier,fulfilled, wonderful person in the process
and of much better mental health thana lot of people who are our critics.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I want our transition and ourjourney to empower someone else.
Even if you're not trans, it's just, itgives you the permission to be yourself.
(55:06):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
If we could all be that and do that, Ithink the world would be a better place.
Be you and do you.
Yeah.
And don't ask permission.
Yeah.
We would be much happier as a societyif we didn't just have to check boxes.
Yeah.
Or just follow in the fearof something that's not real.
(55:26):
Yeah.
That just blows my mind.
Well, so many people believe thatthe thoughts they have and the
beliefs they hold are reality.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When, their beliefs are justthe result of their thoughts.
Yes.
That's it.
Yes.
And the experiences come from that.
Mm-hmm.
So what you believe,you're going to experience.
So, I no longer believe I'mgoing to hell, so I no longer
(55:49):
have that experience of people.
I just, and I think backto it, I'm like, wow.
You know, my sister and I weretalking about this yesterday.
Mm-hmm.
And we grew up in a church, youknow, kind of a traditional church.
And she and I both remember,she's two years younger.
Both remember sitting in Sunday schoolwhere the Sunday school teacher said
(56:10):
that unless you're baptized, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, you know,
you're, you're going to go to hell.
And both of us, without knowingthis from each other years
later, we're comparing notes.
And both of us questioned this and said,so you mean if the missionaries don't
get to the middle of Africa or the middleof China, or you know, a baby's born
(56:30):
and you know, something happens thatthose people are going to go to hell?
And it was like, yeah, you're damn right.
They are.
You know?
And, and as a child, Icouldn't understand that.
It just made no sense to me at all.
Yeah.
But that's, that's the way people who arelocked into that believe and they can't
(56:50):
get outside that box of thinking, what if.
Yeah.
It's all control.
You got it.
It's all control.
It's also a way to not acknowledge thepower that we have as human beings.
Yeah.
Because then we would be forcedto be accountable for our choices.
We can't blame God andwe can't blame the devil.
What a concept.
(57:11):
We are humanizing, beingborn transgender together.
Yes.
And thank you so much for that.
Wendy, did you have any otherquestions before we wind this up today?
Sam, you've been amazing.
Thank you so much for being here andtalking with us so openly and so candidly.
You're wonderful.
(57:31):
I hope I did a good job.
Oh, you did.
You know, whatever we said,I always forget things, but
whatever we talked about is whatwe were supposed to talk about.
That that's my belief.
Let's give a plug for your business.
Talk a little bit about yourBe You, Do You coaching program
and how people can contact you.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So right now the best way to contactme is through beyoudoyoucoaching.com.
(57:55):
I am offering one-on-one coaching.
I also have some packages up.
I'm also looking for guests to be onmy Be You, Do You podcast where you can
come on and share your story and journey.
Yes, Wendy, we have to connect.
Uh, yeah.
So best way to reach meis beyoudoyoucoaching.com.
I also have a merchandise store.
Be You, Do You merchandise,t-shirts, coffee mugs,
(58:16):
stickers, you name it, buttons.
Um, also working on a journal likewriting a authenticity journal.
So that's in the works.
And I host a support group everysecond Sunday of the month.
So if anyone is interested injoining the support group, my email
is beyoudoyoucoaching@gmail.com.
(58:38):
And is it only for LGBTQ+ people or,
We are open to the transcommunity and allies.
Because this is definitelygoing to bridge the gap.
Having conversations with all of us,
that's the only way we'regoing to move forward.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're kinda on the same pagethere, aren't we, Wendy?
Absolutely.
Having those uncomfortable conversations.
(59:00):
So Sam, anything else youwanna share before we sign off
for this wonderful podcast?
No, I just, uh, appreciate being able tocome on and share my experience and story.
Hopefully we can have a part two.
Okay, we'll put that on our agenda.
We're going to do part two, two, Sam.
Definitely.
And for our audience, thankyou for joining us today.
I know this has been fabulous withour wonderful guest, Sam Castle.
(59:24):
So rate, review, share this out.
Subscribe to our podcast, subscribeto our YouTube channel, and stay
tuned for the next episode ofDemystifying the Transgender Journey.
I'm Lynn Murphy.
This has been Wendy Cole andour wonderful guest, Sam Castle.
We'll see you next time.
Thanks everybody.
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
(59:46):
the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, thetransgenderjourney.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
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