Episode 12: The Time is Now: Marzzi Starzzi's Real-World Journey

In this empowering episode of Demystifying the Transgender Journey, hosts Lynn Murphy and Wendy Cole interview the incredible Marzzi Starzzi. Marzzi shares her heartfelt journey of transitioning in her fifties, offering unique insights into her life before and after transition. She discusses her experiences working in a male-dominated field, her battles with addiction, and the pivotal moments that led her to embrace her true self. This episode delves deep into themes of resilience, self-discovery, and empowerment, shedding light on the lived experiences of transgender individuals. Join us for an inspiring conversation that celebrates authenticity and courage.

To contact Marzzi, send a message to [e-mail]

 

For more information visit:  www.thetransgenderjourney.com www.meetwendycole.com https://www.facebook.com/thetransgenderjourney www.womenwhopushthelimits.com https://www.youtube.com/@thetransgenderjourney

 

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Well, hello everybody and welcometo another episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphyand co-host is Wendy Cole.
I'm the author of 50 Life Lessonsfrom Inspiring Women and the
Founder of Women Who Push theLimits, and Wendy is a fabulous
transition mentor and change coach.
Thank you all for joining us todayand being part of this community.

(00:26):
We've got unique experiences, uniqueperspectives, and very authentic journeys
of the people that we're interviewing.
Today, you are in for such a treat.
We are going to interview the amazingMarzzi, who redefines resilience,
creativity, and empowerment.
Wendy and I are welcoming Marzzi,a woman whose vibrant spirit and

(00:46):
extraordinary life story promisesto inspire and to captivate you.
She isn't just fabulous andgorgeous, which she is very much.
She's a trailblazer, thriving in thehigh voltage world of power delivery
at an electric utility where she bringsher authentic self to a department
that's pretty much full of testosterone.

(01:09):
She has a unique perspective there and isadding so much to that environment, and
when she's off the clock, she finds herjoy and her fun in scaling hiking trails
with friends, staying fit, channeling herartistry and her fabulous works, which I
got the tour before we talked, and she'sgot some amazing artwork that she's done.
She's graced the lens ofa fabulous photographer.

(01:32):
She's just an amazing person.
But what truly sets Marzzi apart isher unwavering dedication to helping
others discover their truest selves.
Through her work in addiction recovery,and self-discovery, she lights the
way for those who seek empowerment.
Often reminding her friends, andthis is her quote, there's nothing
more empowering than empowerment.

(01:54):
So we're very honored today thatMarzzi will share her unique
perspective, her hard won struggles,her inspiration, understanding, and
you are in for a great story today.
She's here.
Are you ready to be empowered?
Marzzi, thank you for joining us todayon Demystifying the Transgender Journey.

(02:14):
Thank you both for having me here today.
Hi everybody.
My name is Marzzi Starzzi, andI'm happy to share my journey
of transition here with you.
Hello, Wendy.
Glad to be here.
Thank you.
And for our audience, just briefly beforewe get into your story, or as you get into
your story, Marzzi transitioned in herfifties and so we've got that perspective

(02:36):
of what was her life like before shetransitioned and after she transitioned.
And so let me ask you just a fewquestions and start this conversation.
Marzzi, what was your lifelike before you transitioned?
I lived a very sort of normal life.
I'm going to kind of pick up atabout 2005, 2006 in that area.

(02:57):
I'm a person that is arecovering alcoholic.
So from that time, once I becamesober, I knew that there was something
about me that I had to change.
It had always been there,but I always stuffed it away.
And as I furthered my recoveryjourney, I knew that I had to
address this at some point in time.
And when I got sober in 2006, overthe course of the next years, I was

(03:22):
like this is not going to go away.
So, although I work in a veryhighly masculine environment and
did all the things, I've been amotorcyclist and rock climber and
all these things that people do that
oftentimes are associated with, uh, maleand testosterone kind of activities.
I always knew that Ihad Marzzi inside of me.

(03:42):
And so in 2013, I began my journeyof transition in a very subtle way.
And, uh, mostly by trying to findthings on the internet and find
other people that I could talkto that were similar to myself.
So what was it like going through puberty?
Did that even affect you as a boy?
Did you know you were different then?
Was it, was there somethingway back in that era?

(04:06):
I knew that I was different.
Probably, uh, five-ish years old.
I grew up in a cold, cold environment.
And one thing, I always remember younggirls, they always had those round
things that they stuck their handsin that were like part of their coat.
Hand warmer, I guessis what it was called.
I always thought that was cool,and I always really was drawn to
the prettiness or the difference ofkind of clothing little girls wore

(04:29):
compared to what I was wearing.
And I'm an only child, so Igrew up in a home with just
three people, mom, dad, and me.
Outside
sources as far as family, everybodylived a long ways away, so I didn't
have a whole lot of interaction withother people, male or female, as a
young person, other than at school.
But I knew I was different.

(04:49):
Fast forwarding into puberty, youknow, this is where the other kids in
school, obviously you're starting tosee changes in females and somewhat
in guys too, but , not as obvious.
But yes,
I did know then.
I always questioned, did everybodyhave these feelings or was it just me?
And as we went into junior high kindof area obviously hormones start

(05:11):
flowing and attraction happened.
So, you know, I was attracted to women,but I always had this itch in the
back of my mind, like, I wonder whatit'd be like to be wearing that dress.
Or, I wonder what it's likewhen girls start wearing makeup.
And because the transition from seventhto eighth grade, or eighth to ninth grade
over the summers, a lot of times whenthese happen, you come back and it's a

(05:34):
very dramatic difference than what youremember them like just three months ago.
And I know that my transition fromseventh to eighth grade, I was just
same old person they saw when we saidgoodbye at the end of the school year.
So, I always found that veryappealing and wondered, oh my
gosh, I wonder what that's like.

(05:54):
Um, you know, I dated girls ofcourse, as we went through those early
years of puberty and high school.
It's always kind of out of silliness,and this is a common theme sometimes
where a girlfriend would be like, oh, Iwanna put mascara on you, or I want to
put this lipstick on you, or whatever.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I was just more than happyto have them do that and or even

(06:16):
like try to plant the seed so thatthey would ask me that, you know?
There you go.
Those were the things that I didin the, in that time, so that
would answer that kind of timeframeof puberty and young adulthood.
As I grew older, I dated women all theway up until as much as 10 years ago.
The people I dated with they oftenasked me, do you think you're gay?

(06:39):
And this would go back to high school, youknow, are, are you sure you're not gay?
I'd be like, no, I'm not gay.
Why are you asking me that?
So all along, even from that, ninthgrade was junior high for me, so that
ninth grade where you start havinglittle girlfriends, boyfriends, all
the way through, 2010, 2012 the peoplein my life, they sensed something was

(07:03):
different about me, but of course theydidn't have the language for it either.
So you knew you weren't gay, butyou knew that you were different.
So maybe what they were seeing wasthat feminine side that was coming
out, that has always been there.
Absolutely.
I do believe that was the case.
Well, you know, and we know that beingborn transgender is not a choice.

(07:24):
Correct.
That's who you are.
You're presenting however you decideto present, but you present as a male.
But what's a choice is decidingto transition, deciding to
live your authentic life.
So what was it that propelled you at, Ithink you said when you were 50 that you
decided that you were going to transition,
what was it at that point, afterfive decades of saying, I know

(07:47):
there's something different.
That's not me.
But what was it that helpedyou make that decision?
Whether it pushed you forward orwhether you evolved slowly into that?
What was the choice to live yourauthentic life and to come out as
being the woman that you really are.
That's a great question.
And um, we can go back to whenI was about 42, 43- ish and

(08:12):
through my addiction recovery.
A big part of addiction recoveryis to thine own self be true.
So self-honesty.
Mm-hmm.
And, and I knew that I had to workreally hard for me to be happy.
I had to be honest to myself.
So really how it started was I knewthat this had to come out somehow.
I didn't know at the time how it would,and I was actually dating a woman at

(08:34):
the time and I kind of shared with hera little bit and, you know, she was
very, very puzzled and, and sort ofconcerned at the time about my desires.
And so I kind of came out as you know,I think I'm, I think I'm gender fluid.
And there was a part of me that wasreally confused because in the world that
I was in then it was very heterosexual.

(08:55):
So, um, I was like.
I mean, even if I were a female,I'm not going to date guys.
And I was like are lesbians going to datea transgender male to female person that
may appear to be feminine but has a penis?
So, um, I really struggled withthat because in my mind there was

(09:15):
heterosexual or gay, and I didn'treally understand that there was
a lot of variance in that realm.
Also, I really struggled with the theidea that gender identity and sexual
orientation, were two separate entities.
Right.
And so for me when I started reallysearching, you know, it was the
internet, it was things like Netflix.

(09:38):
At one point there was a little bitlater on, 2016, '18-ish, there was,
Orange is the New Black with Laverne Cox.
There was this show Transparent thatcame out and, uh, 2018, Pose came out.
So there's a lot of media that wascoming out at the time, but earlier,
prior to that, you know, I reallyjust felt like I was going to become

(10:01):
somebody who was gender fluid.
And I felt, that there's these spaceswhere I could dress as she/her and have
this experience and then put all thatstuff away and then be my previous self,
he/him.
The thing that I found though wasthe more that I expressed and let
my she/her come out, the more thatshe craved to be out of the box.

(10:23):
That's what I was going to ask you.
How did it feel when you startedtaking everything off to put it away?
What was your feeling that you had?
In the early days
, when I had so much fear associated withit, so there was a group at the time that
I would connect with a social group herein the area called Arizona Transgender,

(10:45):
and so we're talking 2015 ish.
We would have dinner outings and such.
And um.
You know, I would get dressedand go and have this four or five
hour period of time on a Saturdaynight that I could be authentic.
And then I would come home.
And that whole time, I was sortof very anxiety and, uh, a lot

(11:08):
of fear associated with it.
Like, like stopping at a red lightor seeing a police car or whatever.
Like, like is somebody going tofind out what's going down with me?
And then at the same time, to answeryour question, Wendy, is when I
went home and I changed it was thereality that I had to go back to
the other representation, it was kindof like a hype in the beginning and

(11:30):
kind of get this this almost a euphoria,and then you come down off of it.
Uh, that that carried on.
So, at some point where I transitionedout of this being a weekend thing,
what ended up happening, what I wouldgo to work and I would be the he/him
that I was, and I would come homeand I would transition into Marzzi.
That was a way of me being able to sortof escape the reality of who I really was.

(11:56):
How that changed was I sociallybecame more and more socially known
as she/her and Marzzi Starzzi.
And yet for a great period of time, I wasmy he/him self at work and with family.
Now, how did that kind of work was,at one point, the way I saw it was I'd
go to work and I would come home and

(12:18):
act as I was my she/her self.
What eventually happened was Isaid to myself, they're paying
me to go to work every day.
I'm going to, I'm going toget paid to be the actor.
And so the way I was able to do it fora long time because I didn't know that
full transition was going to be in myfuture I, I really at one point I was

(12:42):
concluded that this would not happen.
Now mind you, I was letting my hair grow.
I was doing things such as gettingmy nails done very subtly, of course.
But I decided at that time, this is whereI really transitioned fully mentally,
that she/her had come out all the way.
And when I was with family orat work, that's when the actor
came out being the he/him.

(13:03):
I like to kid around and say thatI'm a professional actor because I
was paid to be acting at one point in
time.
Oh.
So there was, there had to be a triggerpoint somewhere there where you just.
Like, I can't do this anymore.
This is too hard, juggling the two lives.
Very good.
I'm glad you asked that.
If I back up a little bit to the 2014-'16kind of timeframe, the person I was

(13:27):
dating at the time, she, she came intothe relationship wanting to date a man.
And the more I was expressing myselfauthentically, that was creating
problems, clearly we had intimacy issues.
It was an unpleasanttime for a relationship.
Looking back, what I should have done issaid to her, look, I've got a really big
thing that I'm going to be going through.
And I need to release you from this.

(13:47):
But I was scared and I wanted that personto be there to help me get through, which
she didn't know how to get me through.
She's heterosexual.
So what ended up happening for my50th birthday, I went on a cruise
and I flew down to Fort Lauderdale.
And I stayed on SouthBeach, Miami for three days.
And I remembered that day.
When I arrived, the shuttle bus droppedme off at my hotel and I went in, changed

(14:10):
my clothes and my appearance and I wentout and walked the town of South Beach for
the next three days, authentically myself.
I went to the day when it was time toboard the ship and I didn't go exactly
like this, but very much like this.
And I just showed 'em my documentation.
They're like, welcome.
And for seven days, on thatship, I was able to be fully me.

(14:34):
I did have to wear a badge that had myprevious name on it per their request.
I mean, all you gotta do isflip the badge over, right?
I mean, they're usuallyfacing the wrong way anyways.
Right?
Right.
So, what happened was, on the thirdday of the trip, I played five rounds
of putt putt golf by myself that day.
Because I was cruising solo, right?
And it was a wonderful time for meto be in this space of Selfness.

(14:59):
As a matter of fact, I rememberthis back in the day, before we
had wireless earbuds and all that,
I always had earbuds in all the time.
I listened to music the whole timeand that allowed me to have this
kind of bubble of safety around me.
The fifth round of puttputt golf was done.
I sat down on a chair.
It was a sea day, so there was noland to be seen around the ship.
And I said, this is howI'm going to live my life.

(15:21):
I don't know how I'm going to do it.
I don't know how I'm goingto come out at work or to my
family, but I'm going to go home.
I'm going to sell my house andmove to a new neighborhood.
And when I get outta that U-Haul truck,this is who they're going to see.
So that was November of '18.
November of '19, I moved intothis home and I did exactly that.

(15:43):
And that was the deciding factor at50 years old that that I would do it.
From there, that was 2019, I uh, due tomy some of my uh, social appearances that
I've done here in my community, as faras DJing and karaoke hosting, there are
people that know me as my previous self.
So there were some crossover there,but for the most part, I didn't have to

(16:06):
explain a lot of why I was doing this.
People just saw me as as Marzzi.
You actually physically moved houses.
You didn't change careers, butyou made a physical change.
It's so interesting to see how that kindof had a dividing line there for you,
it sounds like.
It very much did because to not beyour most authentic self in your home,

(16:28):
I mean, and then you can't do it atwork and you can't do, it, it made
it so much more hidden and taboo.
And I was trying to fight the idea ofthis being a bad thing and at the same
time I'd been in that previous housefor, 12 years or whatever and you know,
all the neighbors and all that shit.
Uh, we all know how that goes, and so Iwas like um, this is what I'm going to do.

(16:49):
And I had kind of previously thought aboutit anyways, but this was the catalyst
that said, this is what I'm going to do.
That's very common throughout ourentire history, of just packing up and
moving and popping up in a new location,
as your new self, rather thantransitioning in front of everybody.
Yes.
And however, I only moved five miles,so, what is interesting about it?

(17:13):
And, and even the realtor Iremember they're like, well, why
don't you go to this part of town?
Or why don't you go to thispart of town, or whatever.
And I was like, the fact is what hadhappened when I was going through my
social transitioning uh, a lot of times,you know, I went to the grocery store,
I'd go to the Walmart or whatever the casemight be, as my social socially out self.
And I had found a place whereI felt safe that I wasn't going

(17:36):
to necessarily run into peoplethat I knew professionally.
I adjusted my timeframes when I wouldgo and do things like grocery shopping.
Back in the day before COVID, ofcourse, Walmart was open 24 hours.
I'm somebody who gets up at threeo'clock in the morning for work.
Even on my days off, I could get upat three, go hit Walmart, get the
things I need there, bring them home.
By the time I was done doing that, make anew cup of coffee and then go to the local

(17:58):
grocery store and get the things I needand kind of be back into my my safety.
Mm-hmm.
By
the time everybody else is gettingup, that were more or less normal.
So I didn't go far because I feltlike this is my community, but I did
need to move out of the cul-de-sacthat I was in and get away from that.
This was, uh, something thatcame along nicely and provided

(18:19):
me a lot of a lot of safety.
Yeah I know from my personalexperience that it made it a lot
easier to go to a new location,even though it wasn't that far away.
That's
great.
It really was.
And you know, as I said, that was2019, late in the year of 2019
and right around the corner, as welook back, we know COVID was there.

(18:40):
What was interesting about that,we talk about the silver linings of
COVID, that provided a, uh, a reallyinteresting silver lining for myself.
Some of the family obligations that I hadat the time that, that were sort of set
in expectation of spending this time, itwas allowed to be changed without having
to have a lot of conversation about it.

(19:01):
It allowed me to create newboundaries by default, rather
than sitting down and seeing.
I think we have somewhat of a codependentand unhealthy relationship between us.
Uh, COVID offered that to me.
The other thing it offered even atmy level in my career, I was sent
home and so I had I had three weekswhere I sat at home and and then

(19:23):
eventually, I called and said I'm goingto go crazy if I can't come to work.
And so we made some adjustments formyself and a couple other employees.
But um, what that did was, it allowedme to really sit in this space, in
my authenticity and really nurture myauthenticity and figure out at the time,

(19:48):
we didn't know what the hell was goingon or what was going to happen, or, you
know, I mean, it was a shit show, right?
Right.
Um, it was crazy.
But at the same time, it provided methis level of sort of comfort because I
mean, we really, we couldn't go anywhere.
So I was here and I was able to be me.
So it started on the ship, and then a yearlater we had that time here in COVID, and

(20:10):
then of course we all went, my team wentback to work because we are essentials.
But the fact is, uh, I had tohave a mask on my face from the
time I went through our security.
And then, I'm required to wearuh, safety glasses all the time.
And uh, between the two I I can saythat I am probably one of the few women

(20:32):
on the planet that would put makeupon before putting a mask on my face.
But,
it allowed me to have the anonymityof wearing makeup and And going
to work and and having that sense ofexpression and it was really a big part
of that transitioning professionally.
How was your coming out at workexperience and how did you go about that?

(20:55):
You know, as I said my hair wasbeginning to grow out, and just to
make it clear, I work on a team of 12immediately in my group, all males in my
particular department, in a group of 335.
There's about nine females in thegroup, and I'm in blue collar work,
and they're in more administrativewhite collar kind of work.

(21:17):
So, um, it was very gradual.
I mean, it was very, very slow.
Hair was growing out.
I would get my nails done.
I would do like a French manicure witha matte coat rather than the shiny coat.
And a little bit shorter and somecomments were made periodically,
but nobody really confronted.
And you know, I just kind of let it be.

(21:38):
I've always been kind of the, the lonewolf in work environments because I'm
right now the only one in my groupthat is not married and has kids.
And so that makes you a lone wolf.
And that's how it's beenvery much in my career.
And um, even greater, you know,I mean, the entire company I
work for is about 7,500 people.

(21:58):
And Bring Your Kid to Work Day andFamily Days and all this are huge
events, and those are events thatobviously, I don't partake in.
But what ended up happening, uh, was wefinally got to the point where we were no
longer required to wear a mask at work.
And I mean, we were segregatedfrom one another to a point
where when we ate, we sat at thisspace, you would sit over there.

(22:20):
So even though I was taking my maskoff and had some makeup on my face,
I felt still I had the anonymity thatI needed to do that because there
was so much distance between us.
So nobody
really commented on your makeup.
Nobody said anything about that, I guess.
Huh?
Every now and then, there'd bea little jab here or there, you
know, I just kind of played it off.
Right.
I never really answered.

(22:40):
Like, my nails would be commented on, youknow, I'd say, yeah, aren't they cool?
And they'd be like, oh, well, whatever.
Or something like that,you know what I mean?
I just played it off really subtly.
So they probably thought you were gay.
Right?
I believe that's what they were thinking.
And again uh, with being the agethat I was and single and no kids,
that's kind of assumption thatpeople like to make you know.

(23:02):
I mean, how is it that you never gotsomebody pregnant all these years
and, and that you don't have a kid?
I mean, these are the kind of questionsthat would be asked, and I'd say, well, I
was really, really careful that even hasa slight uh, place in my history as well.
I knew way back, when we talk aboutthose puberty days that you mentioned,
I knew way back then that I hadsomething different in me later.

(23:26):
And I knew that having a familywould be incredibly difficult.
And so, I made sure that the peoplethat I dated, that they were women that,
that either had or never wanted kids andand weren't coming into a relationship
with me with the hopes of that.
I remember coming out Ihad, uh, this was in 2021.

(23:46):
I had, um, I had decidedthat I needed a therapist.
At the time I didn't know that I'dbe fully coming out, but I thought I
wanna have this relationship with thetherapist developed, so that if later
on I decide I want to come out or Iwant to fully transition, that I would
have the foundation with the therapist.

(24:08):
And so I started therapy inJune of '21, I believe it was.
I found this therapist througha person that I work with that
has transitioned on the job, uh,female to male, trans masculine.
And they were a big part of my comingout story professionally because
they were out and they were partof of our LGBT support group and

(24:31):
or employee resource group at work.
So, I joined that group and at first Ijoined it only with my personal email
address because I. I had fears of myladder up being able to see my email.
Because of course they can, right?
It's the workplace and being suspiciousof me being gay and then seeing something
come from the ERG that proclaims thatit's part of the L-G-B-T-Q community,

(24:56):
I figured that my emailwould've been read.
So, I had it come through the houseto, to my personal email first.
But, uh, that, that particular levelof connection at work allowed me to
feel like, okay, one day I can do this.
What, what happened was, I started withtherapy about 90 days later I started HRT.

(25:17):
So it would've been August of '21.
And I mean, it was, it was twotherapy sessions and I was like, okay.
This is what I need.
I just need to do this.
And so, we did the legalitiesthat need to be done with that.
And then January of '22, I had a meetingwith my boss and, uh, it was a Monday.

(25:37):
I remember first Monday of the year, Iwould guess he probably remembers it too.
But, uh, I said, Hey, can can Ihave a meeting with you at 8:00 AM?
And he said, sure, of course, thechanges to come with HRT, I knew
that was going to start becoming moreand more visible and I wanted to go
ahead and get this outta the way now.
So, uh, here's how Icame out professionally.
I said, uh, you know, Iknow you've seen me change.

(25:58):
I want you to know you'regoing to see me change more.
And the reason for that is that I identifyas a woman and I, I'm transgender.
Uh, so, what I want to do isoffer you an opportunity to ask
me any question you wanna ask me.
And, you know, I work in an environmentwith all men and we know there's workplace
conversation that is HR safe, so to speak.

(26:21):
But you know, when I said, you can askme any question you wanna ask me I was
opening it up for them to ask me anything.
His response was, well, we, wekind of had a little bit of a, of
a thought about this, you know, um.
We've all talked aboutit when you're not here.
So it's clear we talk about eachother when they're not there.
Right.
It happens.
Of course they did.

(26:41):
Of course.
And, um, that's a guy thing too.
It is.
I mean, you know, and, andfrankly I never really fit in.
I've never really fitin with the guy scene.
I have a very masculine career andjob, but I don't fit in with that
social normal that is regular guys.
The things that they enjoy doing, yes,women enjoy going to the shooting range

(27:04):
and going hunting and all of this,but, guys don't enjoy going to the nail
salon and getting a pedicure, right?
I mean, there are differences.
And I don't want to portray that onlythese activities are for men, but the
activities that the people that I workwith are not something that interests me.
And I always chuckle about thisbecause they'll say, Hey, you're

(27:26):
going to watch Super Bowl?
And I'll be like, no, I'mgoing to go get a pedicure.
And because, you know, thesalon's wide open on Super Bowl
Sunday, I'll tell you that.
So, um, he asked a couple ofquestions and the first question
was, are you a batter or a catcher?
Are, are you practicing gay sex?

(27:46):
And if so, are you, um, you know,the dominant or the submissive.
And then the second questionwas, the person that had become a
romantic interest for me at the time.
We all know that at work, we talkabout our spouses, our significant
others, and they said, well,is that person really a guy?
And I'm like, no, she was born afemale and she's a female today.

(28:11):
And so that's the story there.
And then the other thing that I addedwhen I did this conversation was I was
like, I don't want you to assume things.
I don't want you to go to socialmedia and find a meme and assume
that that's me because that's not me.
What I want you to do is I want youto come to me and ask me the really,
really hard and embarrassing questionsthat you wanna ask because you think

(28:33):
you wanna know that that's what I am.
So this is how I want to present it.
And, um.
He said, okay.
Well, I had that conversation withthe remaining 11 people that I work
with over the course of the nextweek, one-on-one, face-to-face.
About a five to seven minute conversation.
I did not do any group conversations.

(28:56):
Prior to talking to my supervisor, Ihad contacted in October of 20 21 I had
contacted my HR department and let themknow what was going down, because some
of my classifications that I have atwork, I wanted to make sure that that
me being on HRT wasn't going to affectmy safety status requirements at work,

(29:19):
which I knew it wouldn't, but I wantedto put everything in HR's hands so that
they were aware of what was going down.
And so that that I did everything in a,in a lateral way, that is appropriate.
So, I ended up going through and answeringthe question having the conversation
with the, uh, 11 remaining people.
And I knew that once I did that,that the troops would go out and

(29:42):
spread the word to the other, um,you know, 360 people on my team.
And well on through, because I'veI've been with this organization for,
it'd be, it'll be 18 years this year.
And so, I'm a well-known figurein my profession and at my work.
And there's many other departments thatI collaborate with in order to do my job.

(30:06):
In the course of about a year, I ended uphaving that conversation, uh, 97 times.
I've documented who I'vetalked to and their responses.
And the number one questionthat I received from men.
The number one question was,are you a batter or a catcher?
The number one statement, or pat on theback that they thought they were giving
me was, man, you've got big balls.

(30:29):
And I was like, I reallywish I didn't, but thank you.
And when a female would, would, comment.
They would say, thank you somuch for being so vulnerable and
willing to share this with me.
That was kind of aninteresting experience.
Since then you know, I haven'thad the conversation a whole lot.
Once in a great while, somebody willcome along that, over the 18 years I've

(30:49):
worked in a couple different departmentsand I'll come across X, Y, Z and
like, oh my God, I heard about this.
Tell me.
So then I'll tell 'em a little bit more.
But, uh, quite frankly I don'thave that conversation anymore.
I don't seek to have peopleunderstand why I did it.
This is who I am today.
So that's kind of how it camewith my professional coming out.

(31:11):
And I'll share a little bit about mycoming out with my immediate family.
It was important for me tocome out professionally first.
And, uh, my therapist wouldsay, well, you know, Marzzi.
You don't know how they would'veresponded because you didn't give
'em the opportunity to respond yet.
So I wanna put that out there, butI pretty much knew that my immediate

(31:31):
family, which as you all know, Idon't have brothers and sisters,
so this would be my parents, right?
They're going to say, well, whatis your employer going to do?
What are they going to do with you?
Well, once I knew I was clear with theemployer, I knew that, then I didn't have
to answer that question for the family.
Because that would've justbeen a fear-based response.
And then I would've been like,I don't know what they'll do.

(31:52):
Well then, one family member in particularwould say, well, you better figure that
out before you, you go any further.
They didn't want you livingon their couch, right?
Right there said you're there.
That, oh my god, youknow, going to lose a job.
Well, yeah.
And of course when we're doing thesethings, you know, we're talking to people,
you know, uh, in the documentaryDisclosure that came out in 2020,

(32:14):
1 of the interviewees is sharing tous that in 2020, GLAAD did a survey.
And at that time, you know, less than 20%of the United States that they surveyed
knew somebody who even was transgender oridentified as or had heard of transgender.
So I knew going into this,it would be difficult.

(32:35):
So much to my family's despair,they were the last ones to find out.
I had created a community that was safe.
I had some cousins that were safe,but really what it was was it was
people like you, you know, thepeople that were in my chosen family.
And and then I had to create aspace where I was safe at home and

(32:57):
go into the store and all of that.
Mm-hmm.
And so if we were to sort of lookat this transition on a linear way,
it was in the home first, out thensocially, out socially more, and then
professionally, and then to the family.
And so, that experience happenedalso right around the same time

(33:18):
that it came out professionally.
And I became clear that this wasgoing to be a safe environment.
So my transition was very difficultfor my my mom and, uh, my stepdad.
Incredibly difficult.
I originally came out to them in '21,uh, when I started therapy and HRT.

(33:38):
And that has only resolved withinthe last, uh, five months of
being able to start developingmore friendship and togetherness.
In particular for my mom to hearthis at 72, and have only one child.
And to be, um, the last link, ifyou will, in the chain to find out

(34:00):
was very, very difficult for them.
However, I felt like itwas the way I had to do it.
The way you handled coming outat work, telling your coworkers
individually, in person was great.
Because you controlled the storythat they were going to spread.

(34:23):
Thank you very much.
And that,
that was huge.
I really think you dida great job with that.
Thank you.
And with parents and immediate family,they're the most difficult to come
out to for any of us, and they haveno framework for it whatsoever.

(34:43):
They've lived a heteronormative lifeand you're obviously breaking that norm.
And it will take time.
It does take time.
Thank you very much, Wendy.
You know, touching on, on theprofessional part of it, HR was like
I was like, okay, well I'm goingto do this, uh, first of next year.

(35:04):
Okay, well, do you wantus to be there with you?
I said, no.
My, my HR rep is she's alovely, lovely, lovely person.
She's like, I'll be there with you.
I won't say anything.
I said, Nope.
She's like, do you wantus to send out an email?
Do you want us to do a training session?
I was like, no, I don'twant any of that shit.
I said, I'm going to do it by myself.
I'm going to fly solo.
I said, I got you right herein my back pocket and you know,

(35:26):
if I need you, I'll call you.
I really respect that.
I really do.
Thank you.
I really I know thepeople that I work with.
I've been with them a long time and I knowthat if I had done anything other than
the bravest thing, because we, transgenderpeople are incredibly brave in my opinion,
it would've devalued the experience.

(35:46):
Mm-hmm.
And so when they said you got some bigballs, I know that, um, although we
chuckled about that when they were allcollaborating about it over here, they
knew that inside them that they wouldnot probably be able to do what I did.
Right.
And I'm also known as someonewho practices 19 years

(36:07):
of, of addiction recovery.
And they know that because we allknow each other's lives to a fairly
steep degree, but they know thatI've changed my life in positive
ways in multiple different mm-hmm.
facets.
And so, although I don't fit in withthem and I'm not one of them I also
know that there's parts of my journeythat they would want nothing to do with.

(36:32):
Not because they're not women, butbecause of the aspect of needing to
come out and doing it the way I did,
straight face on.
They
really
developed some respect for you from that.
I believe so.
I think they have very littlerespect for me as a person, because
I'm not a woman and I'm not a man,oftentimes in their eyes, I believe.

(36:57):
But I also believe that theway that I let them know who I
am, they have to respect that.
Mm-hmm.
That's, that's kind ofhow how I see it now.
Now, maybe I'm wrong, you know, Ihave a little bit of inferiority
complex inside of me, I'll be honest.
But, today what they thinkof me is none of my business.
I'm me.
you know, identify as a woman.

(37:17):
People don't really, oh, go ahead.
I was going to say peopledon't understand what it takes.
And you know what you talkedabout, bravery, courage.
I hear those words so much frompeople who have been through this.
That, it does take that,some say it's not courage.
Some say it's survival.
Survival that drives you to come out.
But you know, someone I know said to mea while ago she said, why would anybody

(37:42):
wanna give up their male privilege andbecome a woman when , you know, all the
things we know that happened to women.
Why would anybody wanna do that?
And I said, you justanswered your own question.
That it's not a matter of wantingto do that or making the decision
or making the choice that, oh, Ithink today I'm going to be a woman.
It's who you are.
And that's what I'm hearing from you too.

(38:04):
This is who you were, who you'vealways been, and you're now being
authentic about that and what yousaid, their opinion doesn't matter,
it's not your business, that's sucha healthy way to, to look at it.
Mm-hmm.
Thank you.
I have to look at it that way.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, there's certainprofessions out there, um, all the

(38:24):
military, first responders, high risesteelworkers, people that work on
high voltage power lines and towers.
Some of the people I work with, I mean,these are very dangerous jobs and careers
and they're brave people that do that.
But I feel that also in the realm ofcourageous people, is transgender people.

(38:46):
And when I work with other people thatare transgender and they're going through
issues of people calling him, he/himor she/her or whatever, you know, I'm
like, we gotta just plow through thatbullshit because we have to have a thick
skin to be who we are in many ways.
So what was
your feeling, when you finally, onthis cruise, you made that decision.

(39:08):
You started living authentically,you came out at work.
What was your feeling at that point?
You've been suppressing this for 50 years.
It was like the greatest ah, feeling.
When I was on the ship, and I made thatdecision, although there was a tremendous
amount of unknowns in front of me.
Mm-hmm.
And scary unknowns.

(39:29):
Once I made that decision and Ican tell you I can go back and I
can probably tell you that happenedbetween 10:30 and 11:30 in the morning
on my birthday in 2018 November.
Once that decision was made it was such arelief of, well, let's talk about shame.

(39:50):
You know, this is, uh,this is what we get.
And self shame is sodebilitating in so many ways.
And, but once I knew that that's whatI was going to do, and I had taken on
the idea that I don't know how, but I'mgoing to do this as far as I can go.
I did mention earlier I didn't know if Iwas going to be able to get the surgery.
I didn't know how far it wouldgo, but I knew I was changing my

(40:13):
identity to me and to you, the world.
And speaking of identity, today youknow, I refer to myself as a woman,
clinically or in a situation like this.
Yes, I'm transgender because I was borna boy, but really I identify as a woman.
My transgen-, the transnesspart of it is done.

(40:35):
So I don't really see myself astransgender any longer, other than
when we're speaking technically.
I would totally agree with that.
Thank you.
I I do believe that shame played abig role in the relationship with my
parents because you know, whether itbe their their religious backgrounds
their familial backgrounds with theirother brothers and sisters and all of

(40:58):
that you know, I was an embarrassmentto them and they were embarrassed.
So, on my dad's side of thefamily, that's where I have the
cousins that were supportive.
And quite frankly my relationshipwith my dad has been very fractured
since about 11, 12 years old.
And we went through a lot ofverbal abuse as a young person.

(41:22):
He's a person that at the timehad addiction issues of his own.
And so as we got older that did change.
But our relationship hasn't changed.
It's really pretty much todayat my current age, exactly as
it was when I was 11 or 12.
And I pretty much believe that assoon as puberty hit, that's when our

(41:44):
relationship became incredibly fractured.
And that affects us today.
But that's how it is.
Um, you know, my coming out to himwas a thing of that, uh, and his
belief that I'll be going to hell.
And that's where I'll getto reside when I'm dead.
And when I was told that, youknow, I said, well, dad, um, I

(42:07):
appreciate you telling me how youreally feel and I won't be alone.
And I know that he's ashamed ofme and he still refers to me as
my previous name and as a he/him,and that's, um, that's how he is.
Now.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, how do I handle that?
Well, that's how he's going tobe, he's not going to change.

(42:29):
But how I handled that, is a phrasethat, that I learned along a short
time ago, a couple years ago.
You know, it was made clear to methat our parents those of us that
have them, they're still living.
We have a commodity that,that, that they want.
And it's not our money.

(42:49):
It's not our house or our car.
It's our time.
And we're all professional people,everybody has jobs, kids, all that stuff.
Time is incredibly valuable and who Ispend my time with is who I care about.
I care about you two, and thisaudience that will see this.
And so that's where I spend my time.

(43:11):
And so my time with mydad is pretty limited.
But you said something earliertoo that, uh, we choose our
own family after we transition.
Exactly.
And, and that's the people I spend with.
And
I've had several of my gay friendstell me that exact same thing.
And I was told that earlyin my transition as well.

(43:32):
How I saw this play a role inthe relationship with my mom.
Last September she had gone to seeher brother and so that's in '24.
I came out to her in '21and they didn't know.
She has one brother andhe has a large family.
But you know, I laugh and portray theidea of my, my parents, when I say my

(43:53):
parents, I'm talking my mom and stepdad.
My dad and his wife area separate relationship.
Mm-hmm.
But of my parents traveling andsomething happening to them and me
being at a funeral or at a service and
my family on her side comingin and being like, who's the
blonde bitch in the black dress?
We don't even know who itis because they had no clue.
And my mom and I decided that itwas for her to tell her brother,

(44:16):
not for me to tell her brother.
And this way she had all the controlin that revelation and exposure.
Well, in September she was back visitingthem, and they were talking about how is
it that transgender issues are a topicof politics for a presidential election.

(44:37):
And my aunt and uncle were like,this is really hard to understand.
And that opened the window formy mom to say, well, look, I
need to talk to you about Marzzi.
And so she let let the story be told andshared with them what has taken place.
And my aunt and uncle were likeall we want is for her to be happy.
And they pretty much immediately startedusing the proper pronouns and name and

(45:02):
so when we talk about shame and howpowerful and paralyzing it is, and then
to find out that there was no shamefrom that side of the family, um mm-hmm.
And a lot of, and a lot ofself-growth on her part.
That relationship that we have today is,is very much like it was 10 years ago.

(45:22):
With some of the codependent andunhealthy practices been aligned.
But yeah.
Uh, I often like to share aboutshame and the role that it plays
in our own psyche, uh, as a transperson and what society does to us.
And then what it does professionally.
Like, you know, my boss, as I said, Iwork for a company of 7,500 people and

(45:45):
you know, he has to go to ladder upstaff meetings and so forth and so on.
And there was quite a bit of spotlightthat was put on my coming out in my
realm because the other coming outsthat have happened have happened
on the white collar side, and Idid it on the blue collar side.
In a trade that has a lot ofbravado and masculinity in it.

(46:07):
And so, I'm sure there was a littlebit of like, uh, for my boss, like of
course it would be me, you know, but atthe same time you know, I I feel like
we can switch that and let that be.
Let me shine and I'll make you shine.
And then you can be like, see,look this is how well it works.

(46:27):
Right.
So you're a prime example of exactlyhow well you can work your profession
and still do your job and be you.
That's huge.
That is really huge.
I I had a meeting about ayear and a half ago with some
people in executive HR level.

(46:47):
I was invited as a guestand I showed a picture.
I put on a overhead a pictureof myself when they hired me,
and a picture of myself today.
And I said, okay, so this is theperson that you hired and this person
has all the skill that I have todayand the heart and the drive, and
this person has commercial driver'slicense and all these classifications

(47:11):
and this, and this, and this.
And I said, you hired this personknowing that they were going to
be right for the organization.
But I said, if she came to you,would you hire her for the same job?
I just want you to think about it.
And there was pause.

(47:32):
I gave them time to digestand I said, because she is me.
She has all those classificationsand qualities that he has.
And I said, so this is something weneed to think about when we feel like,
oh, well, a woman can't do this job.
Or because this person transitionson the job, they can't do this job.
And it can happen a lot onthe white collar side too, in

(47:53):
administrative assistant work.
And, and analytical work.
A lot of times that's highlypopulated by female persons.
And my person that I spoke of that,that transitioned from female to male
you know, they experienced a littlebit of back flack from the women
in their organization, you know.
But it's important to rememberthat , if we're equipped to do

(48:14):
the job, then we're equipped.
I know that my genitals had nothing todo with the work that I do then or today.
Am I as strong as I was then today?
I am not.
But, uh, when they hired me, I was,I was 18 years younger as well.
Mm-hmm.
So, as a male, I'm probably not asstrong as I was 18 years ago either.

(48:37):
And so anyways, it was really aspecial, special opportunity to share
a perspective that this person canhave the same qualities as he does,
because I'm a living example of that.
That was brilliant thatyou put that out there.
What an object lesson for them.
I did it.
To open
minds.

(48:58):
Inside I I had a lot of you know,I had a little bit of, a little
bit of fear, um, of course goingin and doing that, of course.
And I had a lot of yes.
Mm-hmm.
But celebrate, I can incredibly Idid it as professionally and humbly
as I possibly could so that itwas consumed, uh, almost like, um,

(49:19):
cheese and crackers at a wine party.
You know, so that they were consuming it.
I shouldn't eat these crackers,but I'm going to anyways.
And and it not become so that they couldturn my attitude or my presentation
to a way of not hearing the message.
Have you seen any change within theorganization that's visible anyway
as a result of what you've done?

(49:42):
Well, I'm fortunate.
The organization that I work for ourcurrent drive is that we hire you
for your talent, come as you are.
And that's a desire that the, um,the upper level management wants to
have when it comes to recruitment.
Good.

(50:02):
Let me switch gears for a minute here.
You, one of the things that you andI talked about before was, and you've
brought this up a little bit, is theuse of the word dead name or dead
death, that you definitely have anaversion to those types of terms.
So talk about that a little bit.
What's your take on that subject?

(50:23):
Thank you very much for asking.
You know, I remember back in the2012, 2014 kind of frame when
I would find something to talkabout it or to learn or read.
You know, I started noticinghow this phrase is used.
My uh, my previous name formy personally protection, I'm
just going to tell you was Tom.

(50:45):
And you know, I always wonderedwhy they used the dead name.
Today, I totally understand whythey used that, that terminology.
But for me, Tom, Tom was theperson that, went through all of
the shit to get to the place whereMarzzi gets to be out and be free.

(51:05):
And so people are like what kindof shit are you talking about?
Well, I didn't fit in.
I mean, really, uh, even when I was young,when it came to junior high gym classes
and all the sports classes and all theextracurriculars that we do, what I did
was I ran track, I was in gymnastics, polevault uh, shot put, that kind of stuff.

(51:26):
I ran the mile.
I did stuff that I could do by myself.
I was very much of a lonewolf in a lot of ways.
Why?
Because I didn't fit in.
I didn't fit in with that
energetic, uh, connection that waswith the guys and that carried on.

(51:47):
So you leave there and you go to school,after high school, you go to college.
And of course that's a much moreunless you're in the sports, a
much more independent kind of role.
But then you start working, you getin various different career fields
and you know, I was never one thatwould get together with the gang
after work and go out and do this andgo camping and go do certain things.

(52:11):
So, I don't want to sound,uh, poor, poor, pitiful me.
because it's definitely not that.
But I found a way of traveling throughmy journey of life very, very solitary.
Oftentimes I have one ortwo friends that we're safe.
Mm-hmm.
And and then I had somebody thatI dated usually that was safe.

(52:31):
I used to be a long distance cyclistand I would ride from where I'm at
a hundred, 150 miles, or oftentimesgo out and ride 30 or 60 miles.
I tried getting together with the local,different groups of cyclists and I just
found I, I was much happier solitary.
Later on, I ended up having a a GoldWing motorcycle, a big cruiser and you

(52:53):
can get together with these groups orthose groups or that groups and all of
my friends that rode bikes rode Harley's,which, you know, is a fabulous motorcycle.
It wasn't what I wanted.
I wanted a Gold Wing.
And you know, at the time I wasoften told, you're not a man.
You know, you're a pussy becauseyou bought a, uh, a Gold Wing.
And you know, so, I just found thatfor me, as myself as Tom, he/him, that

(53:18):
as they went through all these lifeexperiences that, although I navigated
it very positively, it was verypainful at times, and being solitary
all the time hurts a great deal.
So when I transitioned and MarzziStarzzi sort of bloomed and she came
out of her shell you know, she has agreat deal of love for that little boy.

(53:43):
And for that, that personthat, that went through all of
that to make it okay for her.
And so, ultimately what endedup happening was, Tom didn't say
Alright Marzzi, you're free to go.
Now what what Marzzi did wassaid, Tom, you know what?
I've got you right here and I'm goingto protect you and take care of you.

(54:07):
I got it now.
We did it together, but you don't needto worry about all that bullshit today.
And so I am part of my past.
I am my past person, andmy past person is me.
And so today I honor him and as Itravel my journey of authenticity

(54:31):
today, there's no part of thatperson that , is dead to me.
We came together and weare going to be together.
And I'll touch on that briefly.
You know, um, dating is an experience asa trans person that is quite precarious
at times especially presurgery.

(54:52):
Right.
And and social life ingeneral is quite interesting.
What I found socially the person that Iwas, was very introverted, had very little
social life, had very little outgoings.
And when I did have things,I did 'em all by myself.
The cycling, the motorcyclegroups, all of that stuff.

(55:13):
I did everything by myself.
I like to DJ and host karaoke.
That's a solo gig.
Yeah, you're at the spotlight,but you're still flying solo.
It's not like being in a bandwhere you know, you have all these
personalities that melt together.
So for me today the he/him ofmy past is a part of today.
And I I've recently starteddating somebody , uh, we've been

(55:37):
friends for about six months and
about, uh, probably about threemonths ago we had, we kind
of became more of a couple.
And her phrase is that she feels thatshe got a two for one special because
she gets a little bit of the past,me and all of the current me today.
And that, that idea of me sayingthat that person's dead, that

(55:58):
name is dead, that all of that.
I feel like by deading my pastthat I'm deading a part of my
current self as Marzzi today.
And I don't want to do thatbecause today I'm living a life
that I never expected to have.
And socially I'm very, very active.

(56:20):
I have a wonderful friend group andso, that person that I was before
is the person that I am today.
I just have a differentname and a different look.
So I was going to ask you whatsurprises you most about your life?
I don't know if you just answeredthat or if there's something else that
surprises you the most about your life.

(56:41):
I would say that as humbly and asun-arrogantly, I can say this, the thing
that surprises me the most I think ofmy life today, is when I look back and
I think about my coming out period.
When I look back at it, I'm like, wow,that was really, really, really hard.

(57:03):
Um, to second that I would go with Lynn,what I kind of just said is today I
have a level of happiness today that isfar from where I was a long time ago.
I do know that my life, I stillhave bills to pay, and I still
have work to go to every day,
and you know, I still havefriendships and relationships that

(57:25):
need to be nurtured and cultivated.
But, um,
I'm valued by other people and I get tovalue other people authentically today.
And that's probably one of my,one of my greatest assets today.
I love that.
Thank you.
That's beautiful.

(57:46):
You know, and Wendy and I have putthis project together to educate
people, especially cisgender peoplewho are open-minded, but they don't
really understand what's going on.
They've never been in that situation ofbeing someone who's born transgender.
So what can you share with the peoplewe're trying to educate that you

(58:06):
want them to understand about whatit's like to be born transgender?
Well,
the idea that I was borntransgender is absolutely a fact.
You know, I knew way, way back,although the language wasn't
there for me at the time,
I knew I was different.
And if I was born and I had somesort of a birth defect and I needed

(58:27):
to be in a in some sort of a devicethat would help me mobility wise
there would be empathy for that.
And there would be love and care andconcern from my parents and my family.
What I would like, for those of youwho don't know persons like me and
Wendy, or you've just become acquaintedwith and you don't understand,

(58:50):
is that, this isn't a decision.
It was a decision forme to come out, yeah.
And to live happy, but don't weall have a right to live happy.
Yes.
Secondly you know, if it's understoodthat I did this for attention yes,
I'm sitting here sharing my story andwe can call that getting attention,

(59:10):
but if you think that the attentionthat I get out there and that's being
given to my community is the kind ofattention that I want, then I question
what it is that you seeis positive attention.
I'm here to educate, to showyou that I'm a normal person.
You know, I have heartbreak,I have happiness.

(59:30):
I I live my life exactlylike everybody else.
I just happen to have had ajourney that was set in motion
way back when I was born.
And my goal is that, that we canbroaden our story here and help
people understand that we're we'rejust another group of humans.
We're no different thaneverybody else on the planet.

(59:53):
That's great.
Thank you.
And one more question.
I know we could go on for hourslistening to your story, talking to you.
One question I wanna ask that I askeverybody is, what's your driving force?
I would say that by default I'vebeen afforded some privileges.
We go back to what was said previously.
Lynn, you brought up, oneday I was in a, at a seminar.

(01:00:16):
I had gotten through speaking on thistopic and the person asked me it was a
person of color, had asked me, how is itthat you would give up your "man card"
to be a woman?
And as I explained to them, if my mancard is something that I'm going to

(01:00:36):
flash and say, oh, by the way this ismy man card, uh, I get this privilege.
There are some privileges thatwere afforded to me by being
who I was prior to today.
And so, with that in mind, my goal is thatI offer to those who haven't had the same

(01:00:58):
privileges that I have in career choice,in, in selection of where I've come up
in my career, in my path of recovery fromaddiction, all of those things that, that,
perhaps appear that they came easyto me, my transition, my coming out
professionally, all of that stuff.

(01:01:20):
What I drive to do is to help othersfind the best path for them and
for them to know that I'm thereto guide them and to help them.
I was helping somebody probablysix-ish months ago that I didn't
feel like I was able to offerthem the guidance they needed.

(01:01:41):
So, I connected them with Wendy, andas I understand that relationship
has been very positive and helpful.
So, my driving force is whether itbe in the trans community, if it be
looking at shame reduction and workingon self-esteem building and or if it's
guiding through a transition or comingout or being identifying that I'm

(01:02:04):
gay or I'm pansexual, or I'm lesbian.
All of these things are the thingsthat I'm going to utilize my
quote unquote privileges to giveback to my fellow brothers and
sisters so that they can roll.
Thank you for that, and thank youfor who you are and what you do.
Thank you.
This is a little bit on alighter note, but I wanna talk

(01:02:26):
a little bit about dating.
From 2017 to 2021, I had chosen to flysolo and so that was quite a long time.
And it becomes a lonely world out therewhen you're in this kind of a phase.
I remember it was April of '21.
I posted myself on one of the datingwebsites and I had gone ahead and

(01:02:47):
stated in that post that I wasa person transitioning and that
resulted in a relationship thatlasted for a while and then it ended.
And today, if I'm in a place whereI'm going to have myself on a dating
website, I prefer to just say who I am.
And not discuss that, thatI'm transgender at the time.
So oftentimes there's this story ofdisclosure and how do we practice this?

(01:03:11):
I find that you know, there's thisidea that because you're trans,
that you must disclose who you are.
And then the other person is goingto , uh, have feelings about that.
And so the way I handled it often was,uh, Hey, let's, uh, let's meet for coffee
after you've connected a few times onthe phone and via text and all that.

(01:03:32):
And that's kind of the waythat, that has happened for me.
I will say that for those thatare like myself, and you're going
to go into the dating realm, Ithink it's really important to
get that information out early on.
It doesn't have to be in your profilelike it was for me in the beginning,
but, I had times where I would meetwith somebody and we'd have coffee.

(01:03:55):
They would tell me for 45 minutes whattheir story was, and then I'd I'd have
the opportunity to start telling my story.
And, we identify with our careers often.
So I would share with what my career was,which oftentimes is intriguing because
a lot of my work is uh, done by males.
And here I am as a female, sharingwhat I do, and they're like intrigued.

(01:04:15):
And the way I always handled it was Ihave this very unique perspective on life,
you know, and they'd say, oh, really?
Well, tell me.
Now, they're like double intrigued.
And and then I say, well, you know, Ispent about the first 45 years of my life
living as a male, and I was born a male.
And and today clearly I'm, I'm not,and the the experience of doing that.

(01:04:42):
Although the responses were varied,uh, anywhere from, okay, thank you.
And, uh, getting up andwalking away and leaving.
To, you know, thank you forsharing this with me and being very
filled with gratitude and such.
I think that dating for those of us thatare in transition, whether female to male,
or male or female, is is something thatwe need to have a space to talk about it.

(01:05:07):
Because oftentimes what happensis, like for me, you know, here
I'm putting on the dating websitethat I want to date lesbians.
So then of course, you're going to attractlesbians that wanna date a lesbian, right?
And I do identify as as that, but whenyou're a person who owns a penis still
and you're dating lesbians, my assumptionat least was that a lesbian doesn't

(01:05:30):
want somebody that has a penis, right?
So, we had to approach that veryum, very openly with a little
bit of humor like we had here.
But what it did, for those that arelistening, is it opened up the vast many
of identities that there really are.
And you know, the person thatI've begun this new relationship

(01:05:50):
with, she's like, well, I don'tknow that I identify as a lesbian.
So I said, well, I can't tell you whatyou identify as, but I gave her a list
of all these different identities andoftentimes something like bisexual,
or pansexual, or you know, whatever.
The idea of, I don'twanna, I don't wanna label.
And a lot of these things can fall in.
As I travel my journey and walkthrough what is called life with other

(01:06:14):
people, and they have these questions,I like to ponder the thought of you
know, I said to a friend a whileback, I said, if if you were out,
this person dates only women,but she's not out to her family.
I said, how would that changethe connection you have with
myself or another woman?

(01:06:35):
Well, it wouldn't.
I said, okay.
So, if you're digging on on this personand you have this relationship, uh, um,
you know, um, well, what about the family?
What about Christmas?
What about all this other stuff?
Those things are small andI mean, they're important.
They're important times of year.
But when I was married, and livinga straight life, my partner usually

(01:06:57):
went to her family's for Christmas,and I went to my family's because
we didn't have enough time to bewith everybody at the same time.
So, I think it's really important to havemore of an open mind than a closed mind.
And this is coming from me, that I clearlyhad the closed mind at one point in time.
And what I found out was that, thata lot of times people aren't as hung

(01:07:18):
up on genitalia as perhaps I waswhen I went into the dating pool.
So, I just like to share the positivityof that, and offer the idea that there's
many different identities for peoplethat are not transgender to identify
with that may find themselves one daypartnering with, and falling in love

(01:07:40):
with a person that used to be a differentgender than what they are today.
And there's no shame.
Just be you and be authentic.
Be open to that.
I think we get in trouble so much tryingto put a label on things and that's where
we get in trouble with the transgender.
It's people are saying, people, weknow who we're talking about people
there, people are saying they'reeither male or female and trying to put

(01:08:01):
labels on those and have those labelsbe gospel, you know, that that's it.
That's all there is.
And if we can get rid of someof those labels, and that's what
I'm hearing you talking about.
You know, what am I, do I have toidentify as this or that or the other?
If we just let it be, it seemslike it would be so much easier

(01:08:23):
than having to put people in boxes.
I was told from my very beginning waswhen I brought up sexual orientation
because I truly didn't know what I was.
I've been repressing everything, includingmy own personality and gender identity

(01:08:44):
and sexual orientation were repressed.
And what I was told by my therapist,there's a lid for every pot.
Well, and your therapist told you youwould know at the time when I found it.
When you found it.
So, oh, thanks Marzzi, for sharing that.

(01:09:04):
We're going to wind up pretty soon.
This has been wonderful.
Wendy, what do you have to askanything before we end this ask or say?
I can totally relate toeverything you've said.
It came, I came through the similarstages and everything differently.
Like we all do, we all take our ownpath through this, but there's so many

(01:09:27):
commonalities and so many parallels.
Male privilege.
Well, it's a privilege forsome, for others it's not.
I agree with your comment too.
I'm always grateful to my malefacsimile for having gotten me to here.
Thank you for today and thankyou for doing this with us.
So
thank you.
Any last words today?

(01:09:48):
We're going to wrap it up, but likeI said, we've got more to talk about.
Any final words
For those of you who are here learningabout us, for those of you that
are cisgendered and are questioningus, and those of you who are on
your own self-discovery journey,
allow yourself just to live authentically.

(01:10:11):
For those of you who are questioning us,thank you for watching this video and
thank you for being a part of Demystifyingthe Transgender Journey, and know that,
you know, we're just like everybody else.
We get a mortgage to buy a house, wehave to go to work Monday through Friday.
All the same stuff.
We're just like everybody else.

(01:10:32):
Thank you.
You're amazing.
And thank you for beinghere today, Marzzi.
Thank you.
Thank you, Marzzi, for our
audience for being here today.
This is a fabulous episode.
I'm just so excited.
This was such an amazingconversation today.
So, for our audience,thank you for being here.
Be sure to subscribe and share andlike, and build this channel up, come

(01:10:52):
back for more conversations becausewe have such amazing guests coming
forward, who are talking about thesethings that we need to educate ourselves
about and educate myself about.
So thank you for that.
My co-host, Wendy Cole,is just an amazing person.
And people have said that, that theyfind that this is unusual, that a

(01:11:13):
transgender woman and cisgender womanare sharing and collaborating on
a podcast and on a book like this.
And it's just been remarkable.
So thank you for joining us today.
I'm Lynn Murphy, your host.
This has been Wendy Cole, co-host.
And if you wanna get in touch withMarzzi, contact us through our information
which will be in the show notes.

(01:11:34):
the Transgender Journey, contact usand we'll put you in touch with Marzzi.
So thank you for being here.
Thank you everybody.
Tune in next time for our next episodeon Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
Thank
you.