August 8, 2025 • 57 mins
Join host Lynn Murphy in this powerful episode of Demystifying the Transgender Journey as she sits down with Bethany Cinque, the Director of Donor Engagement at Anchor Health Connecticut. Learn about the challenges and triumphs Bethany and her non-binary spouse face in their healthcare and personal lives. Bethany shares her inspiring journey from working in banking to making a difference in the LGBTQ+ community through Anchor Health. Discover how love, respect, and understanding can transform lives. Don't miss this emotionally charged and insightful conversation. Stay curious and stay kind.
For more information on Bethany Cinque, Anchor Health, and Demystifying the Transgender Journey visit:
https://anchorhealthct.org/donate/
https://thetransgenderjourney.com
https://womenwhopushthelimits.com
https://www.facebook.com/thetransgenderjourney
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So if you're a patient who comes tosee us and you need help connecting
(00:02):
to housing resources or food pantries,or you need help getting insurance,
we can help you do all those things.
And it's all in an environment where youwill be respected for exactly who you are.
We're gonna use your correctname and correct pronouns.
And when you're dealing with ahealthcare provider, the most important
thing is that you want to feel heard.
You want the doctor tounderstand why you are there.
(00:26):
And this is what leads somany queer people to avoid
receiving proper healthcare.
Is this person not going to support me?
Is it going to be a scaryor unsafe place for me?
Am I going to get misgendered and thewrong pronouns used over and over?
We truly understand as members ofthe community those challenges.
We want you to takecare of yourself, right?
(00:46):
We want our patients tobe happy and healthy.
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to Demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and their professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
(01:08):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
Welcome everyone.
Thank you for joining usfor another episode of
Demystifying the Transgender Journey,
brought to you by WomenWho Push the Limits.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy.
(01:29):
I am a cisgender woman and I'mcollaborating with a transgender
woman to educate people.
There's so much disinformation andmisinformation in the world today
about what it means to be borntransgender and the whole community.
What's really going on with peopleis what we're after to educate
people who are open-minded and justnot sure of what all this means.
(01:51):
So we've created this platform, andtoday I am just delighted to be able
to introduce to you Bethany Cinque.
Let me tell you a littlebit about Bethany.
She's the director of Donor Engagementat Anchor Health, Connecticut's leading
LGBTQ+ health center, and a trueforce for health equity in the state.
(02:13):
Bethany is a passionate, nonprofitleader who specializes in building
community through fundraising andauthentic relationship building, all
the while championing LGBTQ+ advocacyand access to affirmative care.
Her drive comes from a powerful blendof personal connection and professional
purpose, making her standout voice inthe fight for inclusion and respect-
(02:34):
not only in healthcare for the clientsof Anchor, but in all areas of life
for the entire queer community.
When she's not forging partnershipsand advancing Anchor's Health Mission,
you'll find Bethany unleashing hercreativity, exploring the outdoors,
belting out tunes in her car, andunwinding with her favorite shows.
(02:55):
Bethany, welcome to the show.
Thank you for joining us today.
Thank you so much, Lynn.
What a lovely introduction.
You made me really feel like I'm somebody.
You are somebody and you'rea very unique somebody.
Aren't we all, we allhave a story to tell.
I'm so pleased to be here.
I'm so excited to spread somepositivity and some information and
(03:15):
some insight into what the queercommunity is facing right now and
my story and my part in all of that.
Well, we're interviewing people who areborn transgender as well as people like
you who are loved ones of people who wereborn transgender, and healthcare workers.
So you kind of fit in bothcategories there, Bethany.
Because we want to show the entirestory of what it's like for people
(03:39):
who are born transgender, but also forthose around and the impact that all
of the the changes, and what goes on.
So you have a very, I think, unique story.
Like you said, everybody's unique,but you have a very interesting
story from a personal standpoint.
So why don't you share with ouraudience what that personal story is.
Sure.
How much time are you going to give me?
(04:02):
So my story as it pertains tothe queer community and the trans
community is I am married to my spouse.
We got married in 2016.
But over the last two and a half tothree years, they've been on sort
of a gender exploration journey.
So they now identify astransmasculine, non-binary.
(04:23):
Which doesn't get as much airtime orattention as trans men and trans women.
So it took them and myself alittle bit of time to figure out
the world of gender expression, and allof the shades on the spectrum of where
you fall within that sort of line, right?
(04:46):
From which extreme, you know, notjust male, not just female, but
then there's this whole kind ofgray area in between that lots of
people are starting to identify in.
So I grew up you know, lower middleclass, if we can even say that.
My family experienced povertywhen I was growing up.
We did not have much.
But it was a very loving householdand I was always encouraged to ask
questions and to really prioritizeknowledge and experience the world.
(05:12):
And I was not very sheltered,which I'm thankful for.
Mm-hmm.
My mother is very much a parent whowanted us to have exposure to truth
and talk about difficult things.
And I think that kind of built aquestioning inside me and a willingness
to empathize with other people becauseI understood that, you know, families
came in all different shapes and sizes.
(05:34):
My own family, both my parents,my mother and my father, both come
from large families, many siblings.
Both my mother and my father have adoptedsiblings who are, you know, not white.
Like we just had this great experiencegrowing up of seeing beyond that
typical nuclear white family story.
Which I think served me well in my adultlife, especially with what I faced.
(05:57):
So as I was growing up, I thoughtI was a straight cisgender woman.
I, you know, dated men in highschool, well, boys at the time, right?
High schoolers are boys.
And thought that that's what Iwas supposed to do, and thought
that that felt right at the time.
And it wasn't until I got married at theage of 24 that I kind of started realizing
(06:20):
maybe this isn't the path for me.
I think a lot of young people,even to this day, still
mark their life in terms of
I should reach this stage by when.
Mm-hmm.
You know,
By the time I am 25, I should havethe degree, and the job, and I should
(06:40):
get married, and I should have kids.
And there's this sort of societaltimeline on what you're supposed to
do when, and what those major lifeaccomplishments are supposed to be.
And at 24 I realized that beingmarried to a man, who was a wonderful
person, wasn't right for me.
I fell in love with my currentspouse who was a friend of ours,
(07:02):
and it threw me for a loop.
I had never dated my spouse, who isnow identifying as transmasculine,
which I'm sure we'll talk about alittle bit later in the interview.
Stay with us folks.
Stay with us.
We'll explain what I'm talking about.
My spouse at the time wasidentifying as a woman.
Was born female, wasidentifying as female.
(07:22):
So when I realized I had feelingsfor them, it was the first time
I'd ever really confronted the ideathat I was not totally straight.
I'd always kind of known somewherein myself that I was probably on the
bisexual or pansexual spectrum, but I'dnever dated anything outside of men.
So it was different and itwas scary, but love is love.
(07:45):
And I could not deny the connectionwe had, and I knew that it wasn't
friendship, it was a crush.
And fortunately for me,the feelings were mutual.
So we both left ourmarriages to be together.
So I came out as a lesbian because Ihad fallen in love with my partner, who
was at that time identifying as a woman.
(08:06):
If we fast forward a little bit, right?
We spend most of our time in thatrelationship as a queer couple.
And it wasn't until the last three yearsor so that my partner started realizing
that a lot of the things that had beentroublesome in their life might be
(08:27):
related to their own self-acceptance.
My spouse expressed that they neverfelt quite at home in their own body.
From the earliest memories of childhood.
That they always felt like anoutsider, but beyond that, not
comfortable in their own form.
And they didn't reallyknow what to do with that.
And it affected their life in manyways, including their mental health.
(08:51):
And they're somebody who's struggledwith depression and severe anxiety.
And you know, from a relationship point ofview, touch was very hard for my spouse.
They were so uncomfortable in theirown body that even just trying to
be affectionate became challenging.
(09:11):
It was hard for them to accepta hug or a kiss from me.
Nevermind anything more intimate.
So that was a challenge for ourrelationship that I always knew in
my heart came from them not reallybeing at home with who they were.
And they weren't able tofully love me because they
(09:33):
couldn't love themselves first.
So you had some understandingof this as opposed to thinking
there was something wrong withthem, or something wrong with you?
Yeah, it took us a while to get there.
I did have that time whereI kind of blamed myself,
Is this about me?
Is it something I'm doing or not doing?
But I pretty quickly realized thatthis was about their own inability
(09:58):
to be comfortable in their skin.
And once you realize that's the problem,you know that it's really up to them
to figure out what's going on here.
We have to dig deeper.
Did something happen?
I'm sure this is also relatable forexample, for anybody who's been through a
sexual assault trauma experience, right?
It's hard to put yourself in thatvulnerable place when you've had a
(10:22):
bad experience or when you're notfeeling at home in your own body
or, and safe in your own body.
So that, that took some time.
But the positive that cameout of all of those years.
I know my partner was constantly asking
What's wrong with me?
What's wrong with me?
What's wrong with me?
And coming up empty every time,just feeling down, depressed, low.
Could not find the answeruntil they started thinking
(10:45):
about their gender journey.
That was the moment.
Did they have a therapistor was this exploration on
their own or the two of you?
They, they're a long time, youknow, serial therapy goer, as
am I. I think if you don't havetherapy, you should get some.
I think it's important for everybody.
(11:07):
I agree.
Right.
Even if you're doing great, it's stillawesome to have somebody to check in with.
Mm-hmm.
They worked very hard in therapyand I honestly think the realization
about not being cisgender came inpart through media representation.
Oh.
I think, yeah.
I think sometimes there's allthis conversation about, you know,
(11:32):
What are we exposing people to?
I don't even know what accusationsare being made about it, but that
somehow, like we're turning peoplequeer because there's queer characters
on TV shows or whatever, which issuch a ridiculous argument, right?
What it does do, is when youhave representation for queer
identities, including transgenderidentities, is it helps people who
(11:53):
are feeling those feelings finallyidentify what that feeling is.
And I think that's what reallystarted the ball rolling.
I specifically remember,we were at home together.
We loved the show Queer Eye, you know,it was Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.
Oh, I love that.
Yes.
It's a wonderful show.
There was an episode where they weremaking over one of their heroes who
(12:13):
happened to be I believe a firefighter,female firefighter in New Jersey.
Okay.
And she decided even though she didnot want to identify as anything other
than female, she really hated herchest and wanted to have top surgery.
Okay.
Which, watching that with myspouse, I saw the light bulb turn
on and they suddenly realized
(12:34):
That's an option?
That's an option.
You could still identify as female,
but decide to have top surgery.
And that's not something thatyou would think of on your own.
No.
I mean, it's so common for peopleto think about breast augmentation.
Right?
But going the other way is still aviable option for whoever wants it.
It just had never dawned on us before.
(12:56):
So this person, you know,my spouse who had been so
unhappy in their body was like,
Oh, I didn't know people did that.
Maybe I should start thinking about it.
Which started the ball rolling on like,
What am I really feeling here?
Is there a reason why I'muncomfortable with my chest?
Do we have to dig deeper there?
So that was one of the definingrepresentation moments where we
didn't have the language, anddidn't know it was an option,
(13:18):
until we saw it on our TV screen.
Then you could pursue it from there.
Correct.
And do all the self-discovery.
Right.
You don't know what you don't know.
Well, I think that's really an importantpoint, banning books and things like that
so that children, heaven forbid, shouldfind out anything about being LGBTQ+.
(13:39):
Yeah.
Nobody's getting turned by representation.
They're just identifyingwho they really are.
They're getting the languagethat has been missing.
Trans people have existed for millennia.
We just didn't have the language.
We didn't know what to call it.
The feelings were always there.
My spouse has always been myspouse, like the core of who
they are has never changed.
We just found the wordsto call it what it is.
(14:00):
They've always been themself, likespeaking to their family, speaking
to childhood friends, they havealways been exactly who they are now.
We just didn't have the languageto say my spouse is transmasculine,
until a couple of years ago.
Did their personality change afterthey went through the transition?
Not personality, I would say thattheir mood and their demeanor changed.
(14:24):
They went from being highly self-critical,very unhappy, super uncomfortable
in their own skin, to joyful.
To being able to expresslove for themself.
To be able to express love for me.
Like night and day.
It just, it opened a door.
(14:44):
And who wouldn't want that foryourself, for anybody else?
Someone you cared about.
Even people you don't know.
Wouldn't you want that for people?
Right.
The deepest pain for me throughthe experience was seeing someone
who I loved more than anything,
who could not love themself.
Who didn't know how, whodidn't have the tools.
(15:04):
And it was heartbreaking.
They could not see how great they were.
They couldn't realize my reality at all.
They were trying to fit in somesocietal box that was this or
that, and nothing in between.
Which just led to pain and self-doubt.
And what's wrong with me?
When there's nothing wrong with you.
(15:26):
There's nothing wrong with my spouse.
They were just trying to navigatethrough a society that says
You're one or the other, and that's it.
But you know, even if you look atcisgender people, the women who look like
Barbie are supposed to be the epitomeof what you're supposed to look like.
And so then, cisgender women whodon't look like that and doubt
(15:48):
themselves probably go through someof the things that your spouse went
through, maybe not to the same extent.
Same thing with men.
The wimpy guys don't looklike they've got the six pack.
There's still some of that.
I'm only saying that from thestandpoint of hopefully cisgender
people can understand just alittle bit of what that's like.
Mm-hmm.
Not to the extent that you and your spousehave gone through, but just, can't you
(16:11):
see just a little bit of questioning,
Oh, am I thin enough, tall enough,short enough, blonde enough?
Whatever it is that we question ourselves.
So it's just to adifferent degree, isn't it?
You are absolutely correct.
It is still very much a society wherewe say This is the ideal, right?
Mm-hmm.
We say.
(16:32):
You are virtuous if youseek, thin, white blonde.
Mm-hmm.
That's the ideal that'sstill kind of held up.
But we're making this social shift.
I see the social shift happening,especially with our young people, where
they're starting to realize that beautylooks like anyone and everyone, and we
(16:56):
don't need to follow the same societalguidelines that have been imposed on us.
Men, women, transgenderpeople, queer people.
The shift is starting to happen whereyou don't need to follow those rules.
And the freedom, once you'reable to be less self-critical-
because that's what itcomes down to, right?
If you're trying to follow themagazine ideal, like I personally
(17:18):
have always been plus-sized.
From childhood I've been a large person.
Which growing up, made me feel less than.
It wasn't until my twenties andthirties that I realized I am no
less, important, smart, talented,wonderful, caring, giving, whatever.
Whatever explanation you want togive on who I am, none of that
(17:42):
is taken away by the fact thatI'm also a fat person, right?
Like it's not, it took a very seriousmental reframing to realize that I
was okay, just as I am, I am healthy,I am happy, I'm doing great things.
You're a brilliant, beautiful woman.
I'll pass you the $20 I owe you later.
(18:04):
Um,
No, but seriously.
So many people who aretrapped in that system, right?
The rat race.
You know, lose the final 10pounds or, defy aging because
they just don't want to look old.
It happens to so many people, andif you can let it go, if you can be
okay with who you are at your core,
mm-hmm.
There's freedom and release.
And it's life changing.
(18:25):
You can just live.
Mm-hmm.
And then be able to do all thethings that you're here to do.
I think we all have a purpose in lifeand some of the things that we go through
contribute to how we go through that andwhat we learn and how we can help others.
When it's your time to go and someone'sdelivering your eulogy, are they going
(18:47):
to talk about how much you weighed?
Hopefully not.
Hopefully not.
A life well lived will talk aboutall the wonderful things that are
part of your personality, right?
Yeah.
The wonderful things about you as aperson, not that you failed to live up to
some warped societal expectation to be,
yeah.
Pretty and thin.
Yes.
Yes.
(19:08):
Or to be the, you know, themost masculine guy in the room.
The stereotypes and theexpectations exist for everybody.
People hurt themselves tryingto be that perfect person.
Right.
Whether it's going to the gym andbeating up your body, or doing
plastic surgery to an excess.
And I want to be clear that I don'tmean don't pursue healthy habits.
Right.
(19:28):
Right.
I'm not saying don't work out.
I'm just saying that if the goal is tolook like the magazine, because that's
what we've been told is most valuable insociety, that's not the right motivation.
No.
And doing it not in excess.
Mm-hmm.
You know, doing it to
Right.
Have a life.
Yes.
To feel good, to be able to
(19:51):
Right.
move and do the things you want todo, but not thinking you've got to
be Mr. Atlas or you've got to besome fabulous bodybuilder, with zero
body fat, those types of things.
That gets to the point where you're reallyhurting yourself and I see people who are
my age or even younger, who did all thesecrazy things when they were younger, and
(20:13):
now their bodies just are breaking down.
Right, right.
I just, I have so much hope when Ilook to, the younger generations.
They're playing with expression,they're testing limits.
They're pushing against thenorms in very positive ways.
So many of them are finding waysto just be themselves and not
(20:34):
to Hell with the consequences.
Because, you know, I don't wantanybody to get hurt or attacked,
but that's a societal problem.
Right.
That's on the people who aredoing the attacking, not the
person who's being attacked.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
That's the shift we need to see.
I don't want kids to be fearful ofbeing themselves because they're worried
about attracting negative attention.
The issue we need to solve is why arethese other people trying to attack
people just for living their lives?
(20:55):
Mm-hmm.
Well, and I think the youngergeneration is more interested
in diversity and knowing.
You said you grew up ina very diverse family.
I grew up in a very white bread,lower middle class family.
People of color in our school,maybe two or three, just
really didn't have any of that.
(21:17):
And yet when my niece started goingto high school, she was in a high
school that was very, very mixed andher parents wanted her to go to a
private school because the educationwas better, so on and so forth.
And she said no.
She said, "I want to be backhere with my friends." Yeah.
She wanted to go to the public schoolwhere there was the diversity, and
(21:38):
she's lived that her whole life.
And I think we see that, even whenyou're talking about your spouse
being transmasculine, non-binary.
What does that mean to people?
So my only disclaimer is that,so I'm speaking of my story,
my relationship story, right?
And I will explain it inthe only way I know how.
(21:59):
I'm not speaking as, you know, ascholar in gender studies, right?
This is just how I frame it formyself and for those close to us.
So under the umbrella of transgender,there are trans men who are typically,
someone who is born and assigned femaleand then decides that they are actually
(22:20):
a transgender male and transition tohave their outer self reflect that.
There's also the oppositeend of the spectrum.
People are, who are born male andidentify that they are transgender
female and have their outwardself match that gender identity.
So those are the two ends of the spectrum.
Mm-hmm.
But there's all this gray in the middlewhere you can be maybe assigned female
(22:42):
at birth, but maybe you fit more on themasculine side of the scale, or you're
assigned male at birth and you're feelinga little bit more feminine on the scale.
Everyone's gender identity is goingto be individual and different.
So speaking to what I've had frontrow seats to and been very involved
in with my spouse is that when theystarted questioning, they were like
(23:05):
Am I a trans man?
Right?
I know that I don't feel rightin my body being assigned female,
but if I'm not that, then whatam I, does that mean I'm a man?
And as that thought started comingthrough, they realized that they don't
actually feel like male fits either.
(23:29):
So ultimately, they've decided that theyexperience their gender with impact and
influence and feelings of both genders.
Mm-hmm.
And although they do not want tobecome a man, they do feel most
(23:49):
comfortable presenting more masculinely.
So in my spouse's example, they did decideto have top surgery, so they've removed
their breasts and they've started takingtestosterone for some of the physical
benefits in masculinity that makesthem feel really good about themselves.
Some of those things is likeredistribution of body fat, and
(24:13):
facial hair, and voice lowering.
The pitch of their voiceis now starting to lower.
And the goal is never to pass, I'm sureyou and Wendy have talked about passing.
We have, yes.
The goal is never for my spouse to,be addressed as sir instead of ma'am.
They're somewhere in between,and that's very hard for a lot of
(24:36):
people to wrap their brains around.
We've all grown up in this sort ofbinary society, so for there to be
anything other than just male and femaleis confusing and understandably so.
But it's not that confusing.
It's not that confusing.
Think about how you expressyour own gender identity.
Right?
How long have we used the term tomboy?
(24:56):
Sometimes tomboy just meansa girl who's more comfortable
dressing more masculinely, right?
We have words that kind of mean similar towhat non-binary transmasculine might mean.
Transmasculine means Ash,my partner's name is Ash.
They're they're not going to changetheir gender in terms of bottom
surgery, but they do want to presentmore masculinely because that's
(25:19):
how they feel more comfortable.
And then they're using they/them pronouns.
Correct.
Which people have a hard timewrapping their brain around that.
Right.
But it shouldn't be thattough to get used to that.
For me it's always aboutcircling back to intent.
(25:39):
So when it's completely reasonableand realistic that mistakes happen.
If you tell someone that yourpreferred pronouns are they/them,
it's newer to our language, right?
It's a new instance ofusing those pronouns.
Not everybody's used to it yet but it'salso, language is always evolving, so
mm-hmm.
This is just what happens insociety is like things change
(26:02):
and we use different terms.
If my spouse says to someone like,
Hey, I use they/them pronouns
and they make a mistake, we'regoing to forgive that mistake.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
We know that sometimes,
Oops, slip of the tongue, it'snew, I'm getting used to it.
If that wrong pronounis continued to be used
mm-hmm.
It's a massive sign of disrespect.
(26:22):
Mm-hmm.
It is deeply hurtful and it's then seenas an attack on their very identity.
That willfulness not touse the correct language
mm-hmm.
is cutting.
It is deeply cutting.
And to be fair we knowit's an adjustment, right?
Not everybody's usedto using that language.
They don't necessarilypick it up right away.
(26:44):
But if you show that you're tryingand make a mistake here and there,
we know the intention is there, thatyou're there to be supportive and
you just had a little minor hiccup.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas if you continually use wrongpronouns, you're being disrespectful.
Mm-hmm.
And you should have every, youshould have every reason to feel
slighted by that, in my opinion.
(27:05):
Have you and your spouse or yourspouse individually, lost friends,
lost relatives, separated frompeople that you've known for a while?
No, fortunately.
For us we really have surroundedourselves with amazing allies.
We have friends who are in the community.
We have friends who are outsideof the community, but love us.
(27:26):
And we've been their windowinto this whole different world.
And everyone loves my spouse.
They're very charming.
And I'm sure for all of you listeners,if you think you don't know a trans
person or have never met one, I wouldchallenge that as you probably do.
And if you haven't directly, thenyou definitely know someone who has
a deep connection to a trans person.
(27:47):
My immediate network, my family, myfriends, incredibly supportive and they
see how in love we are and they seewhat a compliment we are to each other.
At the end of the day, it's about love.
It's about loving this person.
It's hearts not parts.
We've been very, very luckythat we've had no fallout.
That means we have theright people around us.
(28:08):
Well, and who wouldn't want peoplethey love, to be in love and
to be happy, and to be joyful.
And when you said your spousechanged, you said not personality,
but they were so much more joyful.
Yes.
After this awareness took hold,and you were able to support
that and make some changes.
(28:29):
I love that Bethany.
Their life is so much happier.
Our relationship is so much stronger.
It's freeing.
It felt heavy going throughlife, pre-transition.
Now that the discovery's been made and myspouse is feeling better in their body,
and how they're looking, and how they'refeeling, everything else fell into place.
(28:51):
It was like domino effect.
I don't identify as a cisgender woman.
We knocked on that firstdomino, and then everything
else started falling into place.
And I'm so grateful for thatbecause it is highly likely that
my spouse would not still be herehad we not come to this discovery.
And I hear that a lot and that is so sad.
(29:13):
Yeah.
You had said when we talked earlier thatsome of this was like going through hell.
The hardest part for me was seeingsomeone who I love and adore be in pain.
Be in pain for 40 something years.
My spouse did not realize that theywere transmasculine until the age of 47.
(29:36):
Hmm.
Okay.
So that's, that's alate in life discovery.
Mm-hmm.
But imagine all of the painand the fear and the self-doubt
and the what's wrong with me?
feelings for 47 years.
Yes.
And to finally figureit out was incredible.
There's a lot more life to live.
We want to live it happily.
It's the starting pointfor a whole new chapter.
(29:59):
That is so wonderful.
And I hear people who knew thatthey were not the gender assigned
at birth from a very early age,and were trying to hide that.
And your story about your spouse isa little different in that they just
didn't understand what was going onand hadn't really identified that.
So,
maybe not as much hiding as justthat insecurity, lack of confidence.
(30:23):
Does that seem to be what you're saying?
That's absolutely a valid statement.
And it meant a lifetime ofsearching and coming up empty.
Mm-hmm.
Trying to find the thing.
Spending so much time intherapy, and trying to identify,
at the end of the day,
I still don't feel well.
I still don't feel like I amin control and ownership and
(30:45):
comfortable with my own body.
I'm so glad they eventually got there.
Mm-hmm.
But it took many years ofstruggle and depression.
It's not fun to do self-examination.
It's hard work.
Therapy's hard.
Mm-hmm.
When you're trying to work on the corepieces of your personality, and you know,
Who am I and what do I want in this life?
(31:07):
You've got to do some deep digging.
And it's not easy, but it's worth it.
If you see it through to the end and youhave that aha moment and you can start to
put in the work and grow, you can buildthe life that you've always imagined.
So you and your spouse had gone through alot of therapy, but the therapist hadn't
(31:28):
helped them identify what was going on.
What you said to me was, untilyou had saw the Queer Eye episode.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
That was, that was the catalyst.
Yeah, so, so this is not aknock against therapists.
It's not.
Oh no, I believe in therapy.
I think it's essential.
So we've each individually have been intherapy ourselves privately, and then
we've also done some couples therapy.
(31:49):
And, I don't think that thetherapists were purposefully not
talking about gender identity.
I think they just were hoping thatif, that were really the core issue
here, that it would come up moreorganically through those sessions.
Right.
Nobody was saying like
Have you ever thoughtperhaps maybe you're trans?
Like, that doesn't feellike comfortable language.
(32:09):
Right.
It's all about self discovery andif we didn't know that that's a
potential reality and explanationfor this lifelong struggle.
It took us a while to get there.
We explored a lot of different things.
There's many reasons that you couldbe, that uncomfortable with your body
and touch and, could it have resultedfrom forms of trauma that you've
(32:31):
experienced and could it, there's lotsof other things we experience in life
that could lead to a similar outcome.
Or a life time of depression.
And, you know, there's clinicaldiagnoses that may have been at play.
So, you know, part oftherapy is navigating
Is it this, is it that, let's trythis, let's learn some skills.
Therapy is great.
But ultimately therapy was not wherethis discovery about transness happened.
(32:55):
That kind of happenedoutside of the session.
Yes.
But then you were able to usetherapy to take it from there.
For sure.
Yes.
And finding therapists who are in theknow up with the lingo, understand the
community and the challenges that thecommunity faces very important, which
is part of the reason why I now, dowhat I do and I work for Anchor Health.
(33:18):
Do you want to talk about that, howthat led you to your work there?
So through experiencing this sort ofchange in even in my own queerness, right?
Like I was identifying as a lesbian,and then as the person I loved who went
through this self-discovery and realizedthey were not fully, female, that they
identified as non-binary, transmasculine.
(33:39):
I had to examine my ownidentity as well, right?
Lesbian no longer feltlike the right term.
So I now identify as queer, as theumbrella term, meaning not straight.
And I also relate to the termpansexual because for me it really
is about the person, not the body.
Hearts not parts.
(34:00):
Mm-hmm.
That's very much what it is for me.
And as I was working in my career, Iwas working in the banking industry
for years, I didn't feel like Iwas making enough of a difference.
And as things, startedprogressing with the election
(34:21):
and Trump winning a second term.
I made a very conscious decisionto do more to find my place.
I knew I wanted to work for a nonprofitfor a very long time, and I just hadn't
had the courage to take that bold step.
It is terrifying to change careers.
I was in my late thirties and wasessentially saying, I'm going to start
(34:44):
over and learn a whole new thing.
But it was that important to me tobe brave and take the step and find
where I could use my talents for good.
And I found Anchor Health.
And Anchor Health is a wonderfulorganization that provides queer
centric healthcare to our community,to the state of Connecticut.
(35:07):
And we provide a variety ofservices that includes primary care,
medical, but also mental healthservices, case management services.
So if you're a patient who comes tosee us and you need help connecting to
housing resources, or food pantries,or you need help getting insurance,
we can help you do all those things.
And it's all in an environment where youwill be respected for exactly who you are.
(35:32):
We're going to use your correct nameand correct pronouns, which is huge.
I mean, personally, my spouse and I haveexperienced very uncomfortable and very
traumatizing medical experiences, visitsto the ER for example, where despite
being reminded many, many times aboutcorrect pronouns, they were never used.
(35:53):
And it wasn't so much about the pronouns,it was about not being listened to.
And when you're dealing with ahealthcare provider, the most important
thing is that you want to feel heard.
You want the doctor tounderstand why you are there.
So to not feel heard about basicidentifying information didn't give us
a whole lot of trust or faith in whatthat treatment was going to be like.
(36:16):
And this is what leads so manyqueer people to avoid receiving
proper healthcare, to be very scaredof a hospital or doctor's office
environment because they truly don'tknow what they're going to face.
Is this person not going to support me?
Is it going to be a scaryor unsafe place for me?
Am I just not going to be listened to?
Am I going to be dismissed or ignored?
(36:39):
Am I going to get misgendered and thewrong pronouns used over and over?
Nobody wants to willfullygo through that experience.
Mm-hmm.
Which is why an organizationlike Anchor Health exists.
Where we truly understand as members ofthe community, those challenges and that,
we want you to take care of yourself.
We want our patients to be happy andhealthy, and we can provide that to them
(37:02):
in a way that's very comfortable, and veryrespectful, and welcoming, and affirming.
You're taking the wholeperson into account there.
Yes.
And when I picture the ER andpeople not listening to you, I
just kind of tense up, I think
What kind of treatment would Iget there if I were this person
and they're not listening to me.
(37:23):
Right.
It's like you hear all these studiesthat were only done on men and then
mm-hmm.
Because they're assuming menand women are the same and
they're not listening to women.
Just pat 'em on the head,
Take an aspirin and go home and
Yeah.
Take care of your man.
But, to think about treating the wholeperson, which I love about Anchor.
Right.
And the things you're saying about ifthey're in need of things socially,
housing, food, what an amazingexperience for someone to feel respected.
(37:49):
To feel like they're listenedto and to be treated like a
real, whole, complete person.
I think that's just amazing thatyou're doing that, and I hope
that you continue doing that.
Yeah, now that I am working for AnchorHealth, they'll never be rid of me.
I'm never leaving.
It was a terrifying career move, togo from something that I'd known and
done for a long time to somethingthat I was relatively new at.
(38:12):
But the passion was always thereand I had the transferable skills.
I knew that I could share my passion withpeople and be an advocate for change.
And I want to help our patients findus, and I want to help raise the
funding required to keep us operating.
And I want people to know that AnchorHealth really does aim to be a beacon
for the queer community who is feelingso slighted at this moment, so scared, so
(38:37):
isolated, it does not have to be that way.
And watching our patients receiveincredible care makes me want
to work all that much harder.
There is something so moving aboutwatching someone finally feel hopeful.
Mm-hmm.
(38:57):
It's incredible.
I'm very lucky to do what I do.
I know you've got the skills.
You're a brilliant woman.
You can transfer those skills to this,but it's your passion about this.
It's your passion.
And that's what donors want to hear too.
They want somebody like youwho's going to share some of
these things, that it's not just
(39:18):
Oh, you know, we need yourmoney, and check this off.
And it's just a job.
For you it's not a job, Bethany.
It's your life.
Yeah.
I know that there are peoplewho like to look at the data.
They like the numbers andthey like to see that.
But I've always been somebodywho puts the story first.
Oh, you have to.
I want to hear how ourpatients' lives have changed.
(39:40):
Yes.
And I want to hear about the amazingthings that they're doing and going to do.
And that's where I tryto focus the attention.
Because we're making true differences.
We're helping people figureout who they are and setting
them up to live meaningful,important, valuable existences.
(40:00):
That's just amazing.
Without revealing any personalinformation, can you give us
a couple of stories to give usexamples of what you've seen?
Sure.
So I had the privilege of meetinga patient who is a trans woman
and they come from a verystrict religious household.
(40:20):
And they were able to find AnchorHealth despite not having a
whole lot of support at home.
And take care of their medical issues,and get some information about how
they could medically transition.
And hearing them talk about how coming toAnchor Health was the only time they could
(40:40):
really be fully themself was in that examroom, and they felt so, so welcome and so
seen and so supported that it gave thema little bit of strength to go back home
where that wasn't necessarily the case.
Which is a very sad thing, butthat is that patient's reality
where we are the lifeboat.
(41:02):
Mm-hmm.
I've met other patients who are olderpatients who did not come out, I
mean, I know Wendy's told her storyof not realizing and not being able to
fully transition until later in life.
And to hear the gratitude fromthese patients about finally being
able to live who they really are.
It's pretty incredible.
(41:23):
Plus, we provide medicine tothe whole queer community.
So we also have patients who receiveSTI testing from us and perhaps are
struggling with HIV diagnosis andneed the guidance on how to treat the
disease and, stop the spread of HIV.
And there's so much thatgoes into what we do.
It's also just primary care, right?
(41:43):
It's all that preventative stuff thatwe're all supposed to be doing to make
sure we're living happy, healthy lives.
It's a little bit ofeverything and it's wonderful.
And yeah, I can't see doing anything else,especially at this time in our country.
When you're even just talkingabout primary care and picture I've
got in my mind is people going tosomeone, a provider who does not
(42:06):
have the same approach that Anchorhas and who does not recognize the.
Fullness of who that person is, even ifthey're not going for gender affirming
care, just going for primary care,and not feeling welcome there and not
feeling heard, like you're talkingabout with the emergency room visit.
Yeah.
And why would you go back?
Why would you go back?
Why would you subject yourselfto further poor treatment?
(42:28):
So you don't get help when you need it.
And that's wonderful that Anchoris doing what they're doing.
What's the hardest part for you ofengaging donors and getting them
to contribute to Anchor Health?
There's a couple of things.
First is all thiscorporate rollback of DEI.
I don't think people really understandwhat DEI is looking to accomplish.
(42:48):
I actually had a conversation with myfather who was talking about, you know,
only the best and brightest should bethe people who get selected for a job.
And he was kind of surprisedwhen I agreed with him.
The only caveat was thatthe pool of interviewees
mm-hmm.
should be everybody.
The best and brightest can look likeanyone, and how do we make sure that they
get the same opportunity to even landthe interview as whoever else, right?
(43:12):
That's the first one is just kowtowingto government executive orders
that don't really carry any weight.
Wanting to please what they see asthe majority in the nation saying
No, we don't want this thing
when actually it's farmore nuanced than that.
And I wish that more corporationsand employers would stand up and say,
(43:33):
No, no, no, no, no.
We're not going to suddenly change.
We've supported our LGBTQ+employees this whole time, we're
going to continue to do so.
Unfortunately, we're notseeing that across the board.
So that's a huge one.
The other one is, I don't knowabout you, but people are feeling,
economic recession on the horizon.
Mm-hmm.
So in terms of disposable income,making sure that you have enough
(43:55):
money to both take care of the familyand maybe donate to causes that are
important to you can be challenging.
I know all of us arefeeling it in our wallets.
Inflation is high and the tariffs beingimposed and there's just a lot going on.
But to those people- every dollarmatters and whatever cause really
relates to you and makes you feelsomething, give what you can.
(44:19):
And the science shows that asa donor, you actually get the
dopamine hit and feel better.
It actually feels great to give.
And making that part of how you cantake a small action to have more
control in your life and feel likeyou're making a difference at a
time that's overwhelming and crazy.
I just ask that everybody thinkabout what's important to you.
Find your one pet issue, whateverthat thing is that makes you feel
(44:43):
connected to other humans or this world.
Find that and then dedicatetime or money if you have it,
to supporting that one thing.
If every one of us finds the one thing,we can start making a difference.
Mm-hmm.
And it really does.
It's as simple as givinga dollar a month, right?
You can start anywhere.
There's no wrong way to start paying itforward and supporting the things that you
(45:06):
know are important and meaningful to you.
You appreciate that all from individualsas well as from organizations,
is that right?
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And I know you, you write a wonderfulletter to your donors because I received
one of those and I appreciate that.
The gratitude is genuine.
I'm thankful for every cent.
And if you can't support withfunds, if you could support
(45:29):
with a motivational note, right?
Something that we could show topatients and be like, we have
people who are with us, right?
We have people who aresending us positivity.
We have people who arewilling to donate time, right?
They want to come out and theywant to help us organize an event.
Maybe they want to come helpvolunteer at a pride event.
Maybe they want to come, help us start afood pantry, or a gender affirming closet.
(45:49):
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't have to be dollars.
It could be a whole lot of otherways to get engaged, but we
need allies now more than ever.
And I'm telling you, you willfeel so good in giving or donating
that it's almost like you're buyingan award for yourself, right?
You're investing in your ownhappiness because it feels great.
It feels great to helppeople and be involved.
And so many of us get stuck inthis sort of doom scrolling life of
(46:13):
Oh, yet another thing that's going badly.
That when you are civically engaged andwhen you're supporting causes that are
important to you, it helps you breakthat up and find the good, and find
the positive and do something about it.
So, even a small donation is going to makepeople feel good, and it's something that
you appreciate too and that you can use.
Yes.
That's one of the things that Wendy andI are doing with this podcast is what
(46:36):
can we do from afar to help you and tohelp anyone who's born transgender, part
of the queer community, telling stories.
And I think that's what's so importantis people have to hear stories.
You said that's what youdo with your fundraising.
It's about the people, right?
I shared my story, my connectionto the LGBTQ community and why it's
(46:57):
where I've chosen to focus my careerand my attention at this time.
But there's so many other stories, right?
It just, it unites us as humans.
We are all connected.
I know it feels extremely divisive,but we are all flying around
on this planet together, right?
And connection ismeaningful and important.
All of these stories are so amazing thatit just helps me continue to find hope
(47:21):
in a time that can feel kind of hopeless.
Even though the story is very specificto a person or a group, people can
still find some universal truth in that.
That they can identifywith for themselves.
But those stories hit the heart.
They hit the emotion.
Yeah.
You're talking about statistics.
Okay.
Some people need the statistics too.
(47:42):
Mm-hmm.
But there's got to be something that hitsthe heart and you're telling stories,
and your story's been so amazing.
What I want to know is, what surprisesyou the most about this journey that
you and your spouse have been on?
What surprises me themost about the journey is
(48:04):
how strong it's made our relationship.
Hmm.
Even though we had years of itbeing very tough, and emotionally
fraught, and feeling disconnected,and trying to figure out what was
going on, it was very challenging.
But ultimately it's all beenworth it because now we're
(48:26):
finally like, we're in the light.
We're in the light.
Mm-hmm.
And, we've always loved each other,but we can love each other in a way
now where both of us can be free tolove with our whole heart, with no
holding back, with no hesitation.
It's pretty incredible that wemade it through it all and that
I'm probably more in love withthem now than I was when we met.
(48:48):
That's wonderful.
So, is, is there somethingnext that you're looking at?
The next thing for me is reallydiving into supporting our community.
You know, that's kind of alreadywhere we're at, but I'm always
thinking of what's the next thing?
What's the next, how canI educate more people?
(49:08):
How can I get more people involved?
How can I make sure these stories areheard and get the word out in a way that
alerts people to why this is so important,and what's really happening, and what the
real, the real truth of the matter is.
So my focus is to try to win asmany hearts and minds as possible.
(49:32):
And you're doing that, aren't you?
I'm trying, I'm trying real hard.
So what advice would you giveto people who are, you know,
curious, who are misinformed?
Ill-informed?
Mm-hmm.
Not sure what this is all about.
What advice would you have?
So my advice is thereare resources, right?
There are fantastic nationalorganizations that share data on
(49:55):
these issues and educational sessions.
There's, books, websites,you name it, you can find it.
You just have to take the brave stepof asking the difficult question.
It could be a Google search, it couldbe asking somebody you work with, right?
I have been asked by peoplewho are acquaintances,
Is it okay if I ask you questions aboutthe trans community, or the gay community?
(50:16):
And my answer is always yes, because ifyou approach me with the curiosity, I
want to have that conversation with you.
I know that you're lookingto get the information.
And that's the only way that we'regoing to explain to people that like,
this isn't something to be scared of.
This is not a bad thing.
You have to start somewhere.
So if you express curiosityand respectfully say
(50:37):
Would it be okay if Iasked you these questions?
I will take that all day long.
There's some people who don'twant to answer questions.
Mm-hmm.
So your idea of asking if it'sokay to ask you a question,
that would be one approach.
What if somebody asks and the person says,
Not my job.
(50:58):
Not my job.
I have to say is a valid response.
Right.
It's a valid response.
Just because you are in the communityor connected to the community
does not mean that you have totake the time to educate others.
It's actually a lot of mental workloadto have to do that, to feel like it's
expected of you to be the educator.
So, I get it.
I totally understand why somepeople aren't comfortable with it.
(51:18):
What I say to that is-
You can do your own research.
You can go online, you can watch YouTubevideos, read the books and find the
stories from readily available sourcesrather than if you've asked an individual
and they're not open to it, respect that.
It's absolutely with, they'rewithin their rights to say
Not my job.
(51:39):
And the other thing is that when yougo to individuals, you might only get
the individual's singular perspective.
My story and my experience is only mine.
So if you talk to me or ask me questions,you might get slightly different
answers than if you asked Wendy.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
We've had different experiences.
But do the research, educateyourself, go into it with a mindset
of curiosity and be open to learning.
(52:03):
Is there anything, any suggestionyou have for the people who know that
they've got the right information andthey're not open to anything else?
They know they're only two sexes.
They know the women belong in women'sbathrooms and men belong in men's
bathrooms and all these thingsif they're stuck on that binary.
Mm-hmm.
Is there any advice that you have forgetting through to people like that?
(52:28):
I think it's important to meet peoplewhere they are and to protect your
own energy by realizing when someoneis being defiant or obstinate because
they cannot handle anything else.
Versus someone who might actuallybe willing to have a conversation.
(52:51):
If someone's not at the pointthat they're willing to really
listen to what you have to say,
it doesn't really do you anygood to shout at a brick wall.
The day may come that they'rewilling to listen, but you have
to protect your own energy.
I'm not living my life toconvince anyone else of anything.
I'm just living my life.
(53:13):
If you want to ask me questionsabout that, if you don't understand.
Cool.
Show me the curiosity.
I'm happy to talk to you.
I'm living my life as a happyqueer individual, right?
I'm successful in my career.
I'm nice to people, I'mapproachable like this.
We're not these scary creatures.
If you're at the point that, you know,truly those beliefs are so, so held
(53:38):
tightly, there's really no fighting that.
But I think that that'sthe minority of people.
I hope so.
I hope so.
So what keeps you going?
You know, there, there'ssome tough times now.
Mm-hmm.
I know you're in love.
I know you've got a great job.
That helps.
Yep.
Those things definitely help.
(53:59):
What keeps me going is thatI've always loved a cause.
I love the feeling of making a difference.
I love the feeling of believingin something and knowing that
even though it's hard, even though thehours are long, even though you know
(54:22):
you're going to hear "No" more than "Yes",
at the end of the day, it'sgoing to be worth it because
people are benefiting from this work.
By the thousands, people arebenefiting from this work.
And that I just need to keep doing it.
And my own sense of there's nothingwrong with me or my relationship.
(54:45):
I know and love many queer people.
There's nothing wrong with any of us.
We are just doing the best we can.
The whole bathroom argument.
It's not about men's room,women's room, it's just everybody
just needs a place to pee.
At the end of the day, it's justabout finding a place to pee where
you're not going to be attacked.
And when I say that, I meanthe trans people in the room
are not going to be attacked.
(55:07):
Yes.
Right.
That's who I need be worried about.
Mm-hmm.
That's what keeps me going is that everylittle step, every listener you have
who is hearing these terms for the firsttime and takes an interest and wants to
further educate themself, is generousenough to give five bucks or whatever,
however they decide to get involvedand learn more, makes it worth it.
(55:30):
Hmm.
Well, thank you for what you do.
Thank you for sharing today, Bethany.
This has been a wonderful conversation.
How do we reach you and how dowe contribute to Anchor Health?
If you would like to reach outto me directly, I would love
to field some of your questionsand connect with some of you.
My email is
bcinque@anchorhealthct.org.
(55:56):
And for those of you motivated to learnmore about Anchor Health, you can visit
our website at anchorhealthct.org/donate.
Thank you.
So I hope that you willhear from our audience.
I hope so too.
It's just an amazing organization andBethany you're such an inspiring person.
I love what you've told us.
I told you after we talked to you thefirst time, that your comment about
(56:19):
"hearts, not parts" has stuck with me.
And I've shared that with so many people.
It's just about caring for another person.
And I hope that our audience getssome of that from you and from
what we're doing with our podcast.
So
I'm so glad the podcast exists.
It's been so lovely getting to know youand Wendy, I'm thrilled that you had me.
Thank you so much.
(56:39):
Well, thank you.
So let me thank our audiencefor being here today.
Thank you for joining us for this episodeof Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy.
Loved talking to Bethany today.
So help us out subscribe.
We're on YouTube, we're onFacebook, we're on Apple Podcasts,
any of your podcast channels.
(56:59):
So subscribe like us, comment, listento these amazing, amazing interviews.
Be sure to subscribe so that whenyou get a notification, you'll know
when our next podcast launches.
Until then, stay curious and stay kind.
So if you're a patient who comes tosee us and you need help connecting
(00:02):
to housing resources or food pantries,or you need help getting insurance,
we can help you do all those things.
And it's all in an environment where youwill be respected for exactly who you are.
We're gonna use your correctname and correct pronouns.
And when you're dealing with ahealthcare provider, the most important
thing is that you want to feel heard.
You want the doctor tounderstand why you are there.
(00:26):
And this is what leads somany queer people to avoid
receiving proper healthcare.
Is this person not going to support me?
Is it going to be a scaryor unsafe place for me?
Am I going to get misgendered and thewrong pronouns used over and over?
We truly understand as members ofthe community those challenges.
We want you to takecare of yourself, right?
(00:46):
We want our patients tobe happy and healthy.
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to Demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and their professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
(01:08):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
Welcome everyone.
Thank you for joining usfor another episode of
Demystifying the Transgender Journey,
brought to you by WomenWho Push the Limits.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy.
(01:29):
I am a cisgender woman and I'mcollaborating with a transgender
woman to educate people.
There's so much disinformation andmisinformation in the world today
about what it means to be borntransgender and the whole community.
What's really going on with peopleis what we're after to educate
people who are open-minded and justnot sure of what all this means.
(01:51):
So we've created this platform, andtoday I am just delighted to be able
to introduce to you Bethany Cinque.
Let me tell you a littlebit about Bethany.
She's the director of Donor Engagementat Anchor Health, Connecticut's leading
LGBTQ+ health center, and a trueforce for health equity in the state.
(02:13):
Bethany is a passionate, nonprofitleader who specializes in building
community through fundraising andauthentic relationship building, all
the while championing LGBTQ+ advocacyand access to affirmative care.
Her drive comes from a powerful blendof personal connection and professional
purpose, making her standout voice inthe fight for inclusion and respect-
(02:34):
not only in healthcare for the clientsof Anchor, but in all areas of life
for the entire queer community.
When she's not forging partnershipsand advancing Anchor's Health Mission,
you'll find Bethany unleashing hercreativity, exploring the outdoors,
belting out tunes in her car, andunwinding with her favorite shows.
(02:55):
Bethany, welcome to the show.
Thank you for joining us today.
Thank you so much, Lynn.
What a lovely introduction.
You made me really feel like I'm somebody.
You are somebody and you'rea very unique somebody.
Aren't we all, we allhave a story to tell.
I'm so pleased to be here.
I'm so excited to spread somepositivity and some information and
(03:15):
some insight into what the queercommunity is facing right now and
my story and my part in all of that.
Well, we're interviewing people who areborn transgender as well as people like
you who are loved ones of people who wereborn transgender, and healthcare workers.
So you kind of fit in bothcategories there, Bethany.
Because we want to show the entirestory of what it's like for people
(03:39):
who are born transgender, but also forthose around and the impact that all
of the the changes, and what goes on.
So you have a very, I think, unique story.
Like you said, everybody's unique,but you have a very interesting
story from a personal standpoint.
So why don't you share with ouraudience what that personal story is.
Sure.
How much time are you going to give me?
(04:02):
So my story as it pertains tothe queer community and the trans
community is I am married to my spouse.
We got married in 2016.
But over the last two and a half tothree years, they've been on sort
of a gender exploration journey.
So they now identify astransmasculine, non-binary.
(04:23):
Which doesn't get as much airtime orattention as trans men and trans women.
So it took them and myself alittle bit of time to figure out
the world of gender expression, and allof the shades on the spectrum of where
you fall within that sort of line, right?
(04:46):
From which extreme, you know, notjust male, not just female, but
then there's this whole kind ofgray area in between that lots of
people are starting to identify in.
So I grew up you know, lower middleclass, if we can even say that.
My family experienced povertywhen I was growing up.
We did not have much.
But it was a very loving householdand I was always encouraged to ask
questions and to really prioritizeknowledge and experience the world.
(05:12):
And I was not very sheltered,which I'm thankful for.
Mm-hmm.
My mother is very much a parent whowanted us to have exposure to truth
and talk about difficult things.
And I think that kind of built aquestioning inside me and a willingness
to empathize with other people becauseI understood that, you know, families
came in all different shapes and sizes.
(05:34):
My own family, both my parents,my mother and my father, both come
from large families, many siblings.
Both my mother and my father have adoptedsiblings who are, you know, not white.
Like we just had this great experiencegrowing up of seeing beyond that
typical nuclear white family story.
Which I think served me well in my adultlife, especially with what I faced.
(05:57):
So as I was growing up, I thoughtI was a straight cisgender woman.
I, you know, dated men in highschool, well, boys at the time, right?
High schoolers are boys.
And thought that that's what Iwas supposed to do, and thought
that that felt right at the time.
And it wasn't until I got married at theage of 24 that I kind of started realizing
(06:20):
maybe this isn't the path for me.
I think a lot of young people,even to this day, still
mark their life in terms of
I should reach this stage by when.
Mm-hmm.
You know,
By the time I am 25, I should havethe degree, and the job, and I should
(06:40):
get married, and I should have kids.
And there's this sort of societaltimeline on what you're supposed to
do when, and what those major lifeaccomplishments are supposed to be.
And at 24 I realized that beingmarried to a man, who was a wonderful
person, wasn't right for me.
I fell in love with my currentspouse who was a friend of ours,
(07:02):
and it threw me for a loop.
I had never dated my spouse, who isnow identifying as transmasculine,
which I'm sure we'll talk about alittle bit later in the interview.
Stay with us folks.
Stay with us.
We'll explain what I'm talking about.
My spouse at the time wasidentifying as a woman.
Was born female, wasidentifying as female.
(07:22):
So when I realized I had feelingsfor them, it was the first time
I'd ever really confronted the ideathat I was not totally straight.
I'd always kind of known somewherein myself that I was probably on the
bisexual or pansexual spectrum, but I'dnever dated anything outside of men.
So it was different and itwas scary, but love is love.
(07:45):
And I could not deny the connectionwe had, and I knew that it wasn't
friendship, it was a crush.
And fortunately for me,the feelings were mutual.
So we both left ourmarriages to be together.
So I came out as a lesbian because Ihad fallen in love with my partner, who
was at that time identifying as a woman.
(08:06):
If we fast forward a little bit, right?
We spend most of our time in thatrelationship as a queer couple.
And it wasn't until the last three yearsor so that my partner started realizing
that a lot of the things that had beentroublesome in their life might be
(08:27):
related to their own self-acceptance.
My spouse expressed that they neverfelt quite at home in their own body.
From the earliest memories of childhood.
That they always felt like anoutsider, but beyond that, not
comfortable in their own form.
And they didn't reallyknow what to do with that.
And it affected their life in manyways, including their mental health.
(08:51):
And they're somebody who's struggledwith depression and severe anxiety.
And you know, from a relationship point ofview, touch was very hard for my spouse.
They were so uncomfortable in theirown body that even just trying to
be affectionate became challenging.
(09:11):
It was hard for them to accepta hug or a kiss from me.
Nevermind anything more intimate.
So that was a challenge for ourrelationship that I always knew in
my heart came from them not reallybeing at home with who they were.
And they weren't able tofully love me because they
(09:33):
couldn't love themselves first.
So you had some understandingof this as opposed to thinking
there was something wrong withthem, or something wrong with you?
Yeah, it took us a while to get there.
I did have that time whereI kind of blamed myself,
Is this about me?
Is it something I'm doing or not doing?
But I pretty quickly realized thatthis was about their own inability
(09:58):
to be comfortable in their skin.
And once you realize that's the problem,you know that it's really up to them
to figure out what's going on here.
We have to dig deeper.
Did something happen?
I'm sure this is also relatable forexample, for anybody who's been through a
sexual assault trauma experience, right?
It's hard to put yourself in thatvulnerable place when you've had a
(10:22):
bad experience or when you're notfeeling at home in your own body
or, and safe in your own body.
So that, that took some time.
But the positive that cameout of all of those years.
I know my partner was constantly asking
What's wrong with me?
What's wrong with me?
What's wrong with me?
And coming up empty every time,just feeling down, depressed, low.
Could not find the answeruntil they started thinking
(10:45):
about their gender journey.
That was the moment.
Did they have a therapistor was this exploration on
their own or the two of you?
They, they're a long time, youknow, serial therapy goer, as
am I. I think if you don't havetherapy, you should get some.
I think it's important for everybody.
(11:07):
I agree.
Right.
Even if you're doing great, it's stillawesome to have somebody to check in with.
Mm-hmm.
They worked very hard in therapyand I honestly think the realization
about not being cisgender came inpart through media representation.
Oh.
I think, yeah.
I think sometimes there's allthis conversation about, you know,
(11:32):
What are we exposing people to?
I don't even know what accusationsare being made about it, but that
somehow, like we're turning peoplequeer because there's queer characters
on TV shows or whatever, which issuch a ridiculous argument, right?
What it does do, is when youhave representation for queer
identities, including transgenderidentities, is it helps people who
(11:53):
are feeling those feelings finallyidentify what that feeling is.
And I think that's what reallystarted the ball rolling.
I specifically remember,we were at home together.
We loved the show Queer Eye, you know,it was Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.
Oh, I love that.
Yes.
It's a wonderful show.
There was an episode where they weremaking over one of their heroes who
(12:13):
happened to be I believe a firefighter,female firefighter in New Jersey.
Okay.
And she decided even though she didnot want to identify as anything other
than female, she really hated herchest and wanted to have top surgery.
Okay.
Which, watching that with myspouse, I saw the light bulb turn
on and they suddenly realized
(12:34):
That's an option?
That's an option.
You could still identify as female,
but decide to have top surgery.
And that's not something thatyou would think of on your own.
No.
I mean, it's so common for peopleto think about breast augmentation.
Right?
But going the other way is still aviable option for whoever wants it.
It just had never dawned on us before.
(12:56):
So this person, you know,my spouse who had been so
unhappy in their body was like,
Oh, I didn't know people did that.
Maybe I should start thinking about it.
Which started the ball rolling on like,
What am I really feeling here?
Is there a reason why I'muncomfortable with my chest?
Do we have to dig deeper there?
So that was one of the definingrepresentation moments where we
didn't have the language, anddidn't know it was an option,
(13:18):
until we saw it on our TV screen.
Then you could pursue it from there.
Correct.
And do all the self-discovery.
Right.
You don't know what you don't know.
Well, I think that's really an importantpoint, banning books and things like that
so that children, heaven forbid, shouldfind out anything about being LGBTQ+.
(13:39):
Yeah.
Nobody's getting turned by representation.
They're just identifyingwho they really are.
They're getting the languagethat has been missing.
Trans people have existed for millennia.
We just didn't have the language.
We didn't know what to call it.
The feelings were always there.
My spouse has always been myspouse, like the core of who
they are has never changed.
We just found the wordsto call it what it is.
(14:00):
They've always been themself, likespeaking to their family, speaking
to childhood friends, they havealways been exactly who they are now.
We just didn't have the languageto say my spouse is transmasculine,
until a couple of years ago.
Did their personality change afterthey went through the transition?
Not personality, I would say thattheir mood and their demeanor changed.
(14:24):
They went from being highly self-critical,very unhappy, super uncomfortable
in their own skin, to joyful.
To being able to expresslove for themself.
To be able to express love for me.
Like night and day.
It just, it opened a door.
(14:44):
And who wouldn't want that foryourself, for anybody else?
Someone you cared about.
Even people you don't know.
Wouldn't you want that for people?
Right.
The deepest pain for me throughthe experience was seeing someone
who I loved more than anything,
who could not love themself.
Who didn't know how, whodidn't have the tools.
(15:04):
And it was heartbreaking.
They could not see how great they were.
They couldn't realize my reality at all.
They were trying to fit in somesocietal box that was this or
that, and nothing in between.
Which just led to pain and self-doubt.
And what's wrong with me?
When there's nothing wrong with you.
(15:26):
There's nothing wrong with my spouse.
They were just trying to navigatethrough a society that says
You're one or the other, and that's it.
But you know, even if you look atcisgender people, the women who look like
Barbie are supposed to be the epitomeof what you're supposed to look like.
And so then, cisgender women whodon't look like that and doubt
(15:48):
themselves probably go through someof the things that your spouse went
through, maybe not to the same extent.
Same thing with men.
The wimpy guys don't looklike they've got the six pack.
There's still some of that.
I'm only saying that from thestandpoint of hopefully cisgender
people can understand just alittle bit of what that's like.
Mm-hmm.
Not to the extent that you and your spousehave gone through, but just, can't you
(16:11):
see just a little bit of questioning,
Oh, am I thin enough, tall enough,short enough, blonde enough?
Whatever it is that we question ourselves.
So it's just to adifferent degree, isn't it?
You are absolutely correct.
It is still very much a society wherewe say This is the ideal, right?
Mm-hmm.
We say.
(16:32):
You are virtuous if youseek, thin, white blonde.
Mm-hmm.
That's the ideal that'sstill kind of held up.
But we're making this social shift.
I see the social shift happening,especially with our young people, where
they're starting to realize that beautylooks like anyone and everyone, and we
(16:56):
don't need to follow the same societalguidelines that have been imposed on us.
Men, women, transgenderpeople, queer people.
The shift is starting to happen whereyou don't need to follow those rules.
And the freedom, once you'reable to be less self-critical-
because that's what itcomes down to, right?
If you're trying to follow themagazine ideal, like I personally
(17:18):
have always been plus-sized.
From childhood I've been a large person.
Which growing up, made me feel less than.
It wasn't until my twenties andthirties that I realized I am no
less, important, smart, talented,wonderful, caring, giving, whatever.
Whatever explanation you want togive on who I am, none of that
(17:42):
is taken away by the fact thatI'm also a fat person, right?
Like it's not, it took a very seriousmental reframing to realize that I
was okay, just as I am, I am healthy,I am happy, I'm doing great things.
You're a brilliant, beautiful woman.
I'll pass you the $20 I owe you later.
(18:04):
Um,
No, but seriously.
So many people who aretrapped in that system, right?
The rat race.
You know, lose the final 10pounds or, defy aging because
they just don't want to look old.
It happens to so many people, andif you can let it go, if you can be
okay with who you are at your core,
mm-hmm.
There's freedom and release.
And it's life changing.
(18:25):
You can just live.
Mm-hmm.
And then be able to do all thethings that you're here to do.
I think we all have a purpose in lifeand some of the things that we go through
contribute to how we go through that andwhat we learn and how we can help others.
When it's your time to go and someone'sdelivering your eulogy, are they going
(18:47):
to talk about how much you weighed?
Hopefully not.
Hopefully not.
A life well lived will talk aboutall the wonderful things that are
part of your personality, right?
Yeah.
The wonderful things about you as aperson, not that you failed to live up to
some warped societal expectation to be,
yeah.
Pretty and thin.
Yes.
Yes.
(19:08):
Or to be the, you know, themost masculine guy in the room.
The stereotypes and theexpectations exist for everybody.
People hurt themselves tryingto be that perfect person.
Right.
Whether it's going to the gym andbeating up your body, or doing
plastic surgery to an excess.
And I want to be clear that I don'tmean don't pursue healthy habits.
Right.
(19:28):
Right.
I'm not saying don't work out.
I'm just saying that if the goal is tolook like the magazine, because that's
what we've been told is most valuable insociety, that's not the right motivation.
No.
And doing it not in excess.
Mm-hmm.
You know, doing it to
Right.
Have a life.
Yes.
To feel good, to be able to
(19:51):
Right.
move and do the things you want todo, but not thinking you've got to
be Mr. Atlas or you've got to besome fabulous bodybuilder, with zero
body fat, those types of things.
That gets to the point where you're reallyhurting yourself and I see people who are
my age or even younger, who did all thesecrazy things when they were younger, and
(20:13):
now their bodies just are breaking down.
Right, right.
I just, I have so much hope when Ilook to, the younger generations.
They're playing with expression,they're testing limits.
They're pushing against thenorms in very positive ways.
So many of them are finding waysto just be themselves and not
(20:34):
to Hell with the consequences.
Because, you know, I don't wantanybody to get hurt or attacked,
but that's a societal problem.
Right.
That's on the people who aredoing the attacking, not the
person who's being attacked.
Right.
Yeah.
Right.
That's the shift we need to see.
I don't want kids to be fearful ofbeing themselves because they're worried
about attracting negative attention.
The issue we need to solve is why arethese other people trying to attack
people just for living their lives?
(20:55):
Mm-hmm.
Well, and I think the youngergeneration is more interested
in diversity and knowing.
You said you grew up ina very diverse family.
I grew up in a very white bread,lower middle class family.
People of color in our school,maybe two or three, just
really didn't have any of that.
(21:17):
And yet when my niece started goingto high school, she was in a high
school that was very, very mixed andher parents wanted her to go to a
private school because the educationwas better, so on and so forth.
And she said no.
She said, "I want to be backhere with my friends." Yeah.
She wanted to go to the public schoolwhere there was the diversity, and
(21:38):
she's lived that her whole life.
And I think we see that, even whenyou're talking about your spouse
being transmasculine, non-binary.
What does that mean to people?
So my only disclaimer is that,so I'm speaking of my story,
my relationship story, right?
And I will explain it inthe only way I know how.
(21:59):
I'm not speaking as, you know, ascholar in gender studies, right?
This is just how I frame it formyself and for those close to us.
So under the umbrella of transgender,there are trans men who are typically,
someone who is born and assigned femaleand then decides that they are actually
(22:20):
a transgender male and transition tohave their outer self reflect that.
There's also the oppositeend of the spectrum.
People are, who are born male andidentify that they are transgender
female and have their outwardself match that gender identity.
So those are the two ends of the spectrum.
Mm-hmm.
But there's all this gray in the middlewhere you can be maybe assigned female
(22:42):
at birth, but maybe you fit more on themasculine side of the scale, or you're
assigned male at birth and you're feelinga little bit more feminine on the scale.
Everyone's gender identity is goingto be individual and different.
So speaking to what I've had frontrow seats to and been very involved
in with my spouse is that when theystarted questioning, they were like
(23:05):
Am I a trans man?
Right?
I know that I don't feel rightin my body being assigned female,
but if I'm not that, then whatam I, does that mean I'm a man?
And as that thought started comingthrough, they realized that they don't
actually feel like male fits either.
(23:29):
So ultimately, they've decided that theyexperience their gender with impact and
influence and feelings of both genders.
Mm-hmm.
And although they do not want tobecome a man, they do feel most
(23:49):
comfortable presenting more masculinely.
So in my spouse's example, they did decideto have top surgery, so they've removed
their breasts and they've started takingtestosterone for some of the physical
benefits in masculinity that makesthem feel really good about themselves.
Some of those things is likeredistribution of body fat, and
(24:13):
facial hair, and voice lowering.
The pitch of their voiceis now starting to lower.
And the goal is never to pass, I'm sureyou and Wendy have talked about passing.
We have, yes.
The goal is never for my spouse to,be addressed as sir instead of ma'am.
They're somewhere in between,and that's very hard for a lot of
(24:36):
people to wrap their brains around.
We've all grown up in this sort ofbinary society, so for there to be
anything other than just male and femaleis confusing and understandably so.
But it's not that confusing.
It's not that confusing.
Think about how you expressyour own gender identity.
Right?
How long have we used the term tomboy?
(24:56):
Sometimes tomboy just meansa girl who's more comfortable
dressing more masculinely, right?
We have words that kind of mean similar towhat non-binary transmasculine might mean.
Transmasculine means Ash,my partner's name is Ash.
They're they're not going to changetheir gender in terms of bottom
surgery, but they do want to presentmore masculinely because that's
(25:19):
how they feel more comfortable.
And then they're using they/them pronouns.
Correct.
Which people have a hard timewrapping their brain around that.
Right.
But it shouldn't be thattough to get used to that.
For me it's always aboutcircling back to intent.
(25:39):
So when it's completely reasonableand realistic that mistakes happen.
If you tell someone that yourpreferred pronouns are they/them,
it's newer to our language, right?
It's a new instance ofusing those pronouns.
Not everybody's used to it yet but it'salso, language is always evolving, so
mm-hmm.
This is just what happens insociety is like things change
(26:02):
and we use different terms.
If my spouse says to someone like,
Hey, I use they/them pronouns
and they make a mistake, we'regoing to forgive that mistake.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
We know that sometimes,
Oops, slip of the tongue, it'snew, I'm getting used to it.
If that wrong pronounis continued to be used
mm-hmm.
It's a massive sign of disrespect.
(26:22):
Mm-hmm.
It is deeply hurtful and it's then seenas an attack on their very identity.
That willfulness not touse the correct language
mm-hmm.
is cutting.
It is deeply cutting.
And to be fair we knowit's an adjustment, right?
Not everybody's usedto using that language.
They don't necessarilypick it up right away.
(26:44):
But if you show that you're tryingand make a mistake here and there,
we know the intention is there, thatyou're there to be supportive and
you just had a little minor hiccup.
Mm-hmm.
Whereas if you continually use wrongpronouns, you're being disrespectful.
Mm-hmm.
And you should have every, youshould have every reason to feel
slighted by that, in my opinion.
(27:05):
Have you and your spouse or yourspouse individually, lost friends,
lost relatives, separated frompeople that you've known for a while?
No, fortunately.
For us we really have surroundedourselves with amazing allies.
We have friends who are in the community.
We have friends who are outsideof the community, but love us.
(27:26):
And we've been their windowinto this whole different world.
And everyone loves my spouse.
They're very charming.
And I'm sure for all of you listeners,if you think you don't know a trans
person or have never met one, I wouldchallenge that as you probably do.
And if you haven't directly, thenyou definitely know someone who has
a deep connection to a trans person.
(27:47):
My immediate network, my family, myfriends, incredibly supportive and they
see how in love we are and they seewhat a compliment we are to each other.
At the end of the day, it's about love.
It's about loving this person.
It's hearts not parts.
We've been very, very luckythat we've had no fallout.
That means we have theright people around us.
(28:08):
Well, and who wouldn't want peoplethey love, to be in love and
to be happy, and to be joyful.
And when you said your spousechanged, you said not personality,
but they were so much more joyful.
Yes.
After this awareness took hold,and you were able to support
that and make some changes.
(28:29):
I love that Bethany.
Their life is so much happier.
Our relationship is so much stronger.
It's freeing.
It felt heavy going throughlife, pre-transition.
Now that the discovery's been made and myspouse is feeling better in their body,
and how they're looking, and how they'refeeling, everything else fell into place.
(28:51):
It was like domino effect.
I don't identify as a cisgender woman.
We knocked on that firstdomino, and then everything
else started falling into place.
And I'm so grateful for thatbecause it is highly likely that
my spouse would not still be herehad we not come to this discovery.
And I hear that a lot and that is so sad.
(29:13):
Yeah.
You had said when we talked earlier thatsome of this was like going through hell.
The hardest part for me was seeingsomeone who I love and adore be in pain.
Be in pain for 40 something years.
My spouse did not realize that theywere transmasculine until the age of 47.
(29:36):
Hmm.
Okay.
So that's, that's alate in life discovery.
Mm-hmm.
But imagine all of the painand the fear and the self-doubt
and the what's wrong with me?
feelings for 47 years.
Yes.
And to finally figureit out was incredible.
There's a lot more life to live.
We want to live it happily.
It's the starting pointfor a whole new chapter.
(29:59):
That is so wonderful.
And I hear people who knew thatthey were not the gender assigned
at birth from a very early age,and were trying to hide that.
And your story about your spouse isa little different in that they just
didn't understand what was going onand hadn't really identified that.
So,
maybe not as much hiding as justthat insecurity, lack of confidence.
(30:23):
Does that seem to be what you're saying?
That's absolutely a valid statement.
And it meant a lifetime ofsearching and coming up empty.
Mm-hmm.
Trying to find the thing.
Spending so much time intherapy, and trying to identify,
at the end of the day,
I still don't feel well.
I still don't feel like I amin control and ownership and
(30:45):
comfortable with my own body.
I'm so glad they eventually got there.
Mm-hmm.
But it took many years ofstruggle and depression.
It's not fun to do self-examination.
It's hard work.
Therapy's hard.
Mm-hmm.
When you're trying to work on the corepieces of your personality, and you know,
Who am I and what do I want in this life?
(31:07):
You've got to do some deep digging.
And it's not easy, but it's worth it.
If you see it through to the end and youhave that aha moment and you can start to
put in the work and grow, you can buildthe life that you've always imagined.
So you and your spouse had gone through alot of therapy, but the therapist hadn't
(31:28):
helped them identify what was going on.
What you said to me was, untilyou had saw the Queer Eye episode.
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
That was, that was the catalyst.
Yeah, so, so this is not aknock against therapists.
It's not.
Oh no, I believe in therapy.
I think it's essential.
So we've each individually have been intherapy ourselves privately, and then
we've also done some couples therapy.
(31:49):
And, I don't think that thetherapists were purposefully not
talking about gender identity.
I think they just were hoping thatif, that were really the core issue
here, that it would come up moreorganically through those sessions.
Right.
Nobody was saying like
Have you ever thoughtperhaps maybe you're trans?
Like, that doesn't feellike comfortable language.
(32:09):
Right.
It's all about self discovery andif we didn't know that that's a
potential reality and explanationfor this lifelong struggle.
It took us a while to get there.
We explored a lot of different things.
There's many reasons that you couldbe, that uncomfortable with your body
and touch and, could it have resultedfrom forms of trauma that you've
(32:31):
experienced and could it, there's lotsof other things we experience in life
that could lead to a similar outcome.
Or a life time of depression.
And, you know, there's clinicaldiagnoses that may have been at play.
So, you know, part oftherapy is navigating
Is it this, is it that, let's trythis, let's learn some skills.
Therapy is great.
But ultimately therapy was not wherethis discovery about transness happened.
(32:55):
That kind of happenedoutside of the session.
Yes.
But then you were able to usetherapy to take it from there.
For sure.
Yes.
And finding therapists who are in theknow up with the lingo, understand the
community and the challenges that thecommunity faces very important, which
is part of the reason why I now, dowhat I do and I work for Anchor Health.
(33:18):
Do you want to talk about that, howthat led you to your work there?
So through experiencing this sort ofchange in even in my own queerness, right?
Like I was identifying as a lesbian,and then as the person I loved who went
through this self-discovery and realizedthey were not fully, female, that they
identified as non-binary, transmasculine.
(33:39):
I had to examine my ownidentity as well, right?
Lesbian no longer feltlike the right term.
So I now identify as queer, as theumbrella term, meaning not straight.
And I also relate to the termpansexual because for me it really
is about the person, not the body.
Hearts not parts.
(34:00):
Mm-hmm.
That's very much what it is for me.
And as I was working in my career, Iwas working in the banking industry
for years, I didn't feel like Iwas making enough of a difference.
And as things, startedprogressing with the election
(34:21):
and Trump winning a second term.
I made a very conscious decisionto do more to find my place.
I knew I wanted to work for a nonprofitfor a very long time, and I just hadn't
had the courage to take that bold step.
It is terrifying to change careers.
I was in my late thirties and wasessentially saying, I'm going to start
(34:44):
over and learn a whole new thing.
But it was that important to me tobe brave and take the step and find
where I could use my talents for good.
And I found Anchor Health.
And Anchor Health is a wonderfulorganization that provides queer
centric healthcare to our community,to the state of Connecticut.
(35:07):
And we provide a variety ofservices that includes primary care,
medical, but also mental healthservices, case management services.
So if you're a patient who comes tosee us and you need help connecting to
housing resources, or food pantries,or you need help getting insurance,
we can help you do all those things.
And it's all in an environment where youwill be respected for exactly who you are.
(35:32):
We're going to use your correct nameand correct pronouns, which is huge.
I mean, personally, my spouse and I haveexperienced very uncomfortable and very
traumatizing medical experiences, visitsto the ER for example, where despite
being reminded many, many times aboutcorrect pronouns, they were never used.
(35:53):
And it wasn't so much about the pronouns,it was about not being listened to.
And when you're dealing with ahealthcare provider, the most important
thing is that you want to feel heard.
You want the doctor tounderstand why you are there.
So to not feel heard about basicidentifying information didn't give us
a whole lot of trust or faith in whatthat treatment was going to be like.
(36:16):
And this is what leads so manyqueer people to avoid receiving
proper healthcare, to be very scaredof a hospital or doctor's office
environment because they truly don'tknow what they're going to face.
Is this person not going to support me?
Is it going to be a scaryor unsafe place for me?
Am I just not going to be listened to?
Am I going to be dismissed or ignored?
(36:39):
Am I going to get misgendered and thewrong pronouns used over and over?
Nobody wants to willfullygo through that experience.
Mm-hmm.
Which is why an organizationlike Anchor Health exists.
Where we truly understand as members ofthe community, those challenges and that,
we want you to take care of yourself.
We want our patients to be happy andhealthy, and we can provide that to them
(37:02):
in a way that's very comfortable, and veryrespectful, and welcoming, and affirming.
You're taking the wholeperson into account there.
Yes.
And when I picture the ER andpeople not listening to you, I
just kind of tense up, I think
What kind of treatment would Iget there if I were this person
and they're not listening to me.
(37:23):
Right.
It's like you hear all these studiesthat were only done on men and then
mm-hmm.
Because they're assuming menand women are the same and
they're not listening to women.
Just pat 'em on the head,
Take an aspirin and go home and
Yeah.
Take care of your man.
But, to think about treating the wholeperson, which I love about Anchor.
Right.
And the things you're saying about ifthey're in need of things socially,
housing, food, what an amazingexperience for someone to feel respected.
(37:49):
To feel like they're listenedto and to be treated like a
real, whole, complete person.
I think that's just amazing thatyou're doing that, and I hope
that you continue doing that.
Yeah, now that I am working for AnchorHealth, they'll never be rid of me.
I'm never leaving.
It was a terrifying career move, togo from something that I'd known and
done for a long time to somethingthat I was relatively new at.
(38:12):
But the passion was always thereand I had the transferable skills.
I knew that I could share my passion withpeople and be an advocate for change.
And I want to help our patients findus, and I want to help raise the
funding required to keep us operating.
And I want people to know that AnchorHealth really does aim to be a beacon
for the queer community who is feelingso slighted at this moment, so scared, so
(38:37):
isolated, it does not have to be that way.
And watching our patients receiveincredible care makes me want
to work all that much harder.
There is something so moving aboutwatching someone finally feel hopeful.
Mm-hmm.
(38:57):
It's incredible.
I'm very lucky to do what I do.
I know you've got the skills.
You're a brilliant woman.
You can transfer those skills to this,but it's your passion about this.
It's your passion.
And that's what donors want to hear too.
They want somebody like youwho's going to share some of
these things, that it's not just
(39:18):
Oh, you know, we need yourmoney, and check this off.
And it's just a job.
For you it's not a job, Bethany.
It's your life.
Yeah.
I know that there are peoplewho like to look at the data.
They like the numbers andthey like to see that.
But I've always been somebodywho puts the story first.
Oh, you have to.
I want to hear how ourpatients' lives have changed.
(39:40):
Yes.
And I want to hear about the amazingthings that they're doing and going to do.
And that's where I tryto focus the attention.
Because we're making true differences.
We're helping people figureout who they are and setting
them up to live meaningful,important, valuable existences.
(40:00):
That's just amazing.
Without revealing any personalinformation, can you give us
a couple of stories to give usexamples of what you've seen?
Sure.
So I had the privilege of meetinga patient who is a trans woman
and they come from a verystrict religious household.
(40:20):
And they were able to find AnchorHealth despite not having a
whole lot of support at home.
And take care of their medical issues,and get some information about how
they could medically transition.
And hearing them talk about how coming toAnchor Health was the only time they could
(40:40):
really be fully themself was in that examroom, and they felt so, so welcome and so
seen and so supported that it gave thema little bit of strength to go back home
where that wasn't necessarily the case.
Which is a very sad thing, butthat is that patient's reality
where we are the lifeboat.
(41:02):
Mm-hmm.
I've met other patients who are olderpatients who did not come out, I
mean, I know Wendy's told her storyof not realizing and not being able to
fully transition until later in life.
And to hear the gratitude fromthese patients about finally being
able to live who they really are.
It's pretty incredible.
(41:23):
Plus, we provide medicine tothe whole queer community.
So we also have patients who receiveSTI testing from us and perhaps are
struggling with HIV diagnosis andneed the guidance on how to treat the
disease and, stop the spread of HIV.
And there's so much thatgoes into what we do.
It's also just primary care, right?
(41:43):
It's all that preventative stuff thatwe're all supposed to be doing to make
sure we're living happy, healthy lives.
It's a little bit ofeverything and it's wonderful.
And yeah, I can't see doing anything else,especially at this time in our country.
When you're even just talkingabout primary care and picture I've
got in my mind is people going tosomeone, a provider who does not
(42:06):
have the same approach that Anchorhas and who does not recognize the.
Fullness of who that person is, even ifthey're not going for gender affirming
care, just going for primary care,and not feeling welcome there and not
feeling heard, like you're talkingabout with the emergency room visit.
Yeah.
And why would you go back?
Why would you go back?
Why would you subject yourselfto further poor treatment?
(42:28):
So you don't get help when you need it.
And that's wonderful that Anchoris doing what they're doing.
What's the hardest part for you ofengaging donors and getting them
to contribute to Anchor Health?
There's a couple of things.
First is all thiscorporate rollback of DEI.
I don't think people really understandwhat DEI is looking to accomplish.
(42:48):
I actually had a conversation with myfather who was talking about, you know,
only the best and brightest should bethe people who get selected for a job.
And he was kind of surprisedwhen I agreed with him.
The only caveat was thatthe pool of interviewees
mm-hmm.
should be everybody.
The best and brightest can look likeanyone, and how do we make sure that they
get the same opportunity to even landthe interview as whoever else, right?
(43:12):
That's the first one is just kowtowingto government executive orders
that don't really carry any weight.
Wanting to please what they see asthe majority in the nation saying
No, we don't want this thing
when actually it's farmore nuanced than that.
And I wish that more corporationsand employers would stand up and say,
(43:33):
No, no, no, no, no.
We're not going to suddenly change.
We've supported our LGBTQ+employees this whole time, we're
going to continue to do so.
Unfortunately, we're notseeing that across the board.
So that's a huge one.
The other one is, I don't knowabout you, but people are feeling,
economic recession on the horizon.
Mm-hmm.
So in terms of disposable income,making sure that you have enough
(43:55):
money to both take care of the familyand maybe donate to causes that are
important to you can be challenging.
I know all of us arefeeling it in our wallets.
Inflation is high and the tariffs beingimposed and there's just a lot going on.
But to those people- every dollarmatters and whatever cause really
relates to you and makes you feelsomething, give what you can.
(44:19):
And the science shows that asa donor, you actually get the
dopamine hit and feel better.
It actually feels great to give.
And making that part of how you cantake a small action to have more
control in your life and feel likeyou're making a difference at a
time that's overwhelming and crazy.
I just ask that everybody thinkabout what's important to you.
Find your one pet issue, whateverthat thing is that makes you feel
(44:43):
connected to other humans or this world.
Find that and then dedicatetime or money if you have it,
to supporting that one thing.
If every one of us finds the one thing,we can start making a difference.
Mm-hmm.
And it really does.
It's as simple as givinga dollar a month, right?
You can start anywhere.
There's no wrong way to start paying itforward and supporting the things that you
(45:06):
know are important and meaningful to you.
You appreciate that all from individualsas well as from organizations,
is that right?
Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
And I know you, you write a wonderfulletter to your donors because I received
one of those and I appreciate that.
The gratitude is genuine.
I'm thankful for every cent.
And if you can't support withfunds, if you could support
(45:29):
with a motivational note, right?
Something that we could show topatients and be like, we have
people who are with us, right?
We have people who aresending us positivity.
We have people who arewilling to donate time, right?
They want to come out and theywant to help us organize an event.
Maybe they want to come helpvolunteer at a pride event.
Maybe they want to come, help us start afood pantry, or a gender affirming closet.
(45:49):
Mm-hmm.
It doesn't have to be dollars.
It could be a whole lot of otherways to get engaged, but we
need allies now more than ever.
And I'm telling you, you willfeel so good in giving or donating
that it's almost like you're buyingan award for yourself, right?
You're investing in your ownhappiness because it feels great.
It feels great to helppeople and be involved.
And so many of us get stuck inthis sort of doom scrolling life of
(46:13):
Oh, yet another thing that's going badly.
That when you are civically engaged andwhen you're supporting causes that are
important to you, it helps you breakthat up and find the good, and find
the positive and do something about it.
So, even a small donation is going to makepeople feel good, and it's something that
you appreciate too and that you can use.
Yes.
That's one of the things that Wendy andI are doing with this podcast is what
(46:36):
can we do from afar to help you and tohelp anyone who's born transgender, part
of the queer community, telling stories.
And I think that's what's so importantis people have to hear stories.
You said that's what youdo with your fundraising.
It's about the people, right?
I shared my story, my connectionto the LGBTQ community and why it's
(46:57):
where I've chosen to focus my careerand my attention at this time.
But there's so many other stories, right?
It just, it unites us as humans.
We are all connected.
I know it feels extremely divisive,but we are all flying around
on this planet together, right?
And connection ismeaningful and important.
All of these stories are so amazing thatit just helps me continue to find hope
(47:21):
in a time that can feel kind of hopeless.
Even though the story is very specificto a person or a group, people can
still find some universal truth in that.
That they can identifywith for themselves.
But those stories hit the heart.
They hit the emotion.
Yeah.
You're talking about statistics.
Okay.
Some people need the statistics too.
(47:42):
Mm-hmm.
But there's got to be something that hitsthe heart and you're telling stories,
and your story's been so amazing.
What I want to know is, what surprisesyou the most about this journey that
you and your spouse have been on?
What surprises me themost about the journey is
(48:04):
how strong it's made our relationship.
Hmm.
Even though we had years of itbeing very tough, and emotionally
fraught, and feeling disconnected,and trying to figure out what was
going on, it was very challenging.
But ultimately it's all beenworth it because now we're
(48:26):
finally like, we're in the light.
We're in the light.
Mm-hmm.
And, we've always loved each other,but we can love each other in a way
now where both of us can be free tolove with our whole heart, with no
holding back, with no hesitation.
It's pretty incredible that wemade it through it all and that
I'm probably more in love withthem now than I was when we met.
(48:48):
That's wonderful.
So, is, is there somethingnext that you're looking at?
The next thing for me is reallydiving into supporting our community.
You know, that's kind of alreadywhere we're at, but I'm always
thinking of what's the next thing?
What's the next, how canI educate more people?
(49:08):
How can I get more people involved?
How can I make sure these stories areheard and get the word out in a way that
alerts people to why this is so important,and what's really happening, and what the
real, the real truth of the matter is.
So my focus is to try to win asmany hearts and minds as possible.
(49:32):
And you're doing that, aren't you?
I'm trying, I'm trying real hard.
So what advice would you giveto people who are, you know,
curious, who are misinformed?
Ill-informed?
Mm-hmm.
Not sure what this is all about.
What advice would you have?
So my advice is thereare resources, right?
There are fantastic nationalorganizations that share data on
(49:55):
these issues and educational sessions.
There's, books, websites,you name it, you can find it.
You just have to take the brave stepof asking the difficult question.
It could be a Google search, it couldbe asking somebody you work with, right?
I have been asked by peoplewho are acquaintances,
Is it okay if I ask you questions aboutthe trans community, or the gay community?
(50:16):
And my answer is always yes, because ifyou approach me with the curiosity, I
want to have that conversation with you.
I know that you're lookingto get the information.
And that's the only way that we'regoing to explain to people that like,
this isn't something to be scared of.
This is not a bad thing.
You have to start somewhere.
So if you express curiosityand respectfully say
(50:37):
Would it be okay if Iasked you these questions?
I will take that all day long.
There's some people who don'twant to answer questions.
Mm-hmm.
So your idea of asking if it'sokay to ask you a question,
that would be one approach.
What if somebody asks and the person says,
Not my job.
(50:58):
Not my job.
I have to say is a valid response.
Right.
It's a valid response.
Just because you are in the communityor connected to the community
does not mean that you have totake the time to educate others.
It's actually a lot of mental workloadto have to do that, to feel like it's
expected of you to be the educator.
So, I get it.
I totally understand why somepeople aren't comfortable with it.
(51:18):
What I say to that is-
You can do your own research.
You can go online, you can watch YouTubevideos, read the books and find the
stories from readily available sourcesrather than if you've asked an individual
and they're not open to it, respect that.
It's absolutely with, they'rewithin their rights to say
Not my job.
(51:39):
And the other thing is that when yougo to individuals, you might only get
the individual's singular perspective.
My story and my experience is only mine.
So if you talk to me or ask me questions,you might get slightly different
answers than if you asked Wendy.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
We've had different experiences.
But do the research, educateyourself, go into it with a mindset
of curiosity and be open to learning.
(52:03):
Is there anything, any suggestionyou have for the people who know that
they've got the right information andthey're not open to anything else?
They know they're only two sexes.
They know the women belong in women'sbathrooms and men belong in men's
bathrooms and all these thingsif they're stuck on that binary.
Mm-hmm.
Is there any advice that you have forgetting through to people like that?
(52:28):
I think it's important to meet peoplewhere they are and to protect your
own energy by realizing when someoneis being defiant or obstinate because
they cannot handle anything else.
Versus someone who might actuallybe willing to have a conversation.
(52:51):
If someone's not at the pointthat they're willing to really
listen to what you have to say,
it doesn't really do you anygood to shout at a brick wall.
The day may come that they'rewilling to listen, but you have
to protect your own energy.
I'm not living my life toconvince anyone else of anything.
I'm just living my life.
(53:13):
If you want to ask me questionsabout that, if you don't understand.
Cool.
Show me the curiosity.
I'm happy to talk to you.
I'm living my life as a happyqueer individual, right?
I'm successful in my career.
I'm nice to people, I'mapproachable like this.
We're not these scary creatures.
If you're at the point that, you know,truly those beliefs are so, so held
(53:38):
tightly, there's really no fighting that.
But I think that that'sthe minority of people.
I hope so.
I hope so.
So what keeps you going?
You know, there, there'ssome tough times now.
Mm-hmm.
I know you're in love.
I know you've got a great job.
That helps.
Yep.
Those things definitely help.
(53:59):
What keeps me going is thatI've always loved a cause.
I love the feeling of making a difference.
I love the feeling of believingin something and knowing that
even though it's hard, even though thehours are long, even though you know
(54:22):
you're going to hear "No" more than "Yes",
at the end of the day, it'sgoing to be worth it because
people are benefiting from this work.
By the thousands, people arebenefiting from this work.
And that I just need to keep doing it.
And my own sense of there's nothingwrong with me or my relationship.
(54:45):
I know and love many queer people.
There's nothing wrong with any of us.
We are just doing the best we can.
The whole bathroom argument.
It's not about men's room,women's room, it's just everybody
just needs a place to pee.
At the end of the day, it's justabout finding a place to pee where
you're not going to be attacked.
And when I say that, I meanthe trans people in the room
are not going to be attacked.
(55:07):
Yes.
Right.
That's who I need be worried about.
Mm-hmm.
That's what keeps me going is that everylittle step, every listener you have
who is hearing these terms for the firsttime and takes an interest and wants to
further educate themself, is generousenough to give five bucks or whatever,
however they decide to get involvedand learn more, makes it worth it.
(55:30):
Hmm.
Well, thank you for what you do.
Thank you for sharing today, Bethany.
This has been a wonderful conversation.
How do we reach you and how dowe contribute to Anchor Health?
If you would like to reach outto me directly, I would love
to field some of your questionsand connect with some of you.
My email is
bcinque@anchorhealthct.org.
(55:56):
And for those of you motivated to learnmore about Anchor Health, you can visit
our website at anchorhealthct.org/donate.
Thank you.
So I hope that you willhear from our audience.
I hope so too.
It's just an amazing organization andBethany you're such an inspiring person.
I love what you've told us.
I told you after we talked to you thefirst time, that your comment about
(56:19):
"hearts, not parts" has stuck with me.
And I've shared that with so many people.
It's just about caring for another person.
And I hope that our audience getssome of that from you and from
what we're doing with our podcast.
So
I'm so glad the podcast exists.
It's been so lovely getting to know youand Wendy, I'm thrilled that you had me.
Thank you so much.
(56:39):
Well, thank you.
So let me thank our audiencefor being here today.
Thank you for joining us for this episodeof Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy.
Loved talking to Bethany today.
So help us out subscribe.
We're on YouTube, we're onFacebook, we're on Apple Podcasts,
any of your podcast channels.
(56:59):
So subscribe like us, comment, listento these amazing, amazing interviews.
Be sure to subscribe so that whenyou get a notification, you'll know
when our next podcast launches.
Until then, stay curious and stay kind.
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