Demystifying the Transgender Journey: A Conversation with Dr. Diana Sorrentino
In this episode of Demystifying the Transgender Journey, hosts Lynn Murphy and Wendy Cole sit down with Dr. Diana Sorrentino, a nationally recognized authority on gender diversity and transgender identity. Dr. Sorrentino shares her personal journey of transitioning and offers insights into the challenges faced by transgender individuals and their families. The discussion covers the importance of credible information, the historical context of gender diversity, and the significance of parental support for transgender youth. Dr. Sorrentino also highlights her extensive research and work in counseling, mentoring, and educating healthcare professionals. Join us for an enlightening conversation filled with profound stories and invaluable information aimed at humanizing and understanding the transgender experience.
Dr. Sorrentino is a member of:
- World Professional Association for Transgender Health – WPATH
- Gay Lesbian Medical Association – GLMA
- Outcare – LGBTQ+ Healthcare
Author of Transgender Families: Helping Parents and Families Understand Gender Diversity and Being Transgender Because No One Transitions Alone.
Transgender Families: Sorrentino, Dr Diana: 9798894276953: Amazon.com: Books
Host of Paradoxes of Gender Podcasts – academically focused on CE requirements for medical and behavioral healthcare professionals working with gender diverse and transgender individuals, families, and allies.
Podcast: https://paradoxesofgender.com/podcasts-1
Email: paradoxesofgender@earthlink.net
Website: https://paradoxesofgender.com/
LinkedIn: Dr. Diana Sorrentino, Ph.D.
For More Information:
https://www.thetransgenderjourney.com
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/demystifying-the-transgender-journey/id1799458202
https://womenwhopushthelimits.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynnmurphy602/
https://www.facebook.com/wendycolegtm
https://www.youtube.com/@wendycole8326
https://www.linkedin.com/in/wendy-cole-gtm
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's very challenging—even today withall the information that's available—
to, with confidence,strength, and dignity,
embrace your authentic self in contrastto your sex assignment at birth,
regardless male or female,
and move forward with who you aredestined to be, with or without
the support of those around you.
(00:24):
Do your research.
Find peers, mentors,support organizations,
and make sure that theinformation you're accessing
is from credible sources.
Dispel the myth, dispel the hyperbole,dispel the pathological assumptions,
and ignore the political,geopolitical arrogance.
They're pursuing agendas to suittheir ideological perspective of
(00:48):
what life should be for everyone,
with no desire to learn andunderstand, the biology, the physiology
of gender diversity, itsorigin, its development,
and the fact that we've beenaround for thousands of years
does not take a lot of research.
(01:10):
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious, but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to Demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and their professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
(01:30):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
Hello, and welcome to another episodeof Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
I'm one of your hosts, Lynn Murphy.
I am an author and speaker and trainerand founder of Women Who Push the Limits.
(01:55):
Also published a best selling book,50 Life Lessons from Inspiring Women.
Your other co-host today is theremarkable, Wendy Cole, who is a
transition mentor and she helpspeople through significant changes
because she transitioned at 67.
And if you don't think that'ssignificant change, there's
nothing that compares, I'm sure.
(02:16):
Our goal here is to interview peoplewho are born transgender, interview
their families, friends, coworkers,healthcare workers, and by sharing their
stories — these powerful stories — wewant you to be able to meet people
who are in the community and tohelp dissuade people from all these
misinformation, and disinformationposts on the news and social media.
(02:41):
We're humanizing the transgenderexperience one fantastic story at a time.
And today we have the honor ofwelcoming a truly amazing guest.
And I'm gonna read thisbecause she has quite a resume.
Dr. Diana Sorrentino PhD is a nationallyrecognized authority on gender
(03:03):
diversity and transgender identity.
Dr. Sorrentino is the authorof several influential books.
Including, I have thishere, which is just amazing.
This one is Transgender Families,helping parents and families understand
gender diversity and being transgender.
(03:24):
And another book is The Neurobiologyand Physiology of Incongruent Gender
Identities and Sexual Orientation.
She also co-authored Adolescent GenderAffirming Medical Behavioral Healthcare,
making her a leading voice in theintersection of science, medicine, and
lived experience as an affirmed woman.
With dual doctoral degreesin sociology and psychology.
(03:48):
Dr. Sorrentino brings a rare depthof academic rigor to her work.
For more than 35 years, she has dedicatedherself to counseling, mentoring, and
supporting gender diverse and transgenderindividuals—as well as their families.
But her impact doesn't stop there.
She also trains and supports medicaland behavioral healthcare professionals,
(04:10):
equipping them with knowledge andskills to deliver affirming care.
And what an open market it is forthat, they are very much needed.
Dr. Sorrentino's experience andexpertise is sought out far and wide.
She's designed and delivered educationalprograms for thousands of professionals,
spoken in countless conferences andsymposiums, and hosts a podcast that
(04:34):
reaches listeners in over 80 countries.
We're jealous.
We want ours to be there.
Her work is rooted in empowerment,advocacy, and awareness, empowering
parents, families, and professionalswith the tools to support transgender
youth, advocating for accessible andtailored healthcare, and fostering
communities that embrace gender diversity.
(04:56):
With over 40 years of research and morethan a thousand educational seminars under
her belt, Dr. Sorrentino is not just anexpert, she's a tireless champion for
understanding, acceptance and change.
Now it is my great privilege to welcomeDr. Diana Sorrentino (Dr. D) to our show,
(05:18):
Lynn.
Wendy.
Thank you.
It is truly an honor to be here to jointhe two of you, and your listeners at
large, and I am more than confidentthat in a relatively short period of
time, your podcast will trump mine,
as far as the number ofcountries with subscribers.
(05:39):
Well, we will support yours, and weknow you will support ours, and we're
trying to get the message out tohumanize the transgender experience.
I really appreciate you being here.
Dr. D.
Again, my honor.
Thank you for being here.
Definitely.
So you have such an extensive resumeand such an amazing life, and we'd like
to start today with your personal life.
(06:02):
I know we're already planning to do asecond interview, and probably a third,
where we're gonna get more into Dr. Dean'sresearch, but today we wanna see who
this person is, up close and personal,who has such an amazing life and who
has done so many incredible things.
Would you share with us alittle bit about your childhood,
your family, your upbringing?
(06:24):
Well, I was raised in a traditionalIrish, Italian, Catholic family.
Middle child, between an oldersister and a younger sister.
What I'll share is, during my prepubescentchildhood, I always felt different.
(06:45):
Could not explain it, did not feelas if I was a different gender
than my sex assignment at birth.
I just felt different.
We had a neighborhood full ofchildren about the same age, and
for whatever reason, I never clickedwith the boys in the neighborhood.
(07:06):
But I always got alongwell with the girls.
Okay.
So that was my prepubescent childhood.
When puberty hit it was likea tsunami of emotion for me.
Whatever I was feeling becamesignificantly more intense, and it
(07:28):
really struck home starting sixth gradeas I returned from summer vacation.
Seeing all the girls in my class maturingand becoming women, and it's like,
Well, how come I'm not?
Mm-hmm.
At the time I had no knowledge of genderdiversity or transgender identities
(07:52):
or for that matter, who to speak to.
My parents— I wouldn'teven know where to begin.
You know, to put a date onme, we're talking 1966 here.
That's when I entered sixth grade.
The only thing you heard about atthat time was Christine Jorgensen.
Exactly.
(08:13):
Originally became a media darling,and then as the media will typically
do things, they turn on her.
But she opened the doors for so manyindividuals who were closeted about their
gender identity—that there was hope.
And Dr. Harry Benjamin is thequintessential expert during his time.
(08:37):
Mm-hmm.
In this realm of genderattribution and transgender issues.
Now, of course, I did not know allof this then, so I struggled a lot.
It was emotionally heavy onme during my adolescence.
And again, who do you talk to?
Where do you go for information?
And what is very typical of individualslike myself assigned male at birth, to
(09:03):
pursue hyper masculine activities toeffectively repress and suppress feelings.
Mm-hmm.
Which I learned over time onlyworks for a short period of time.
Which is why after undergraduateschool, I went into the military.
(09:26):
But I was constantly lookingfor information, for resources.
Mm-hmm.
Coming up empty.
During one of my graduate studies,because I have three master's degrees,
I am searching through the libraryat the university and I found a book.
(09:49):
Where, within the book they referenceda support group, for not so much
transgender, but crossdressers.
You know, individuals who would livepart-time in an alternate gender.
And I went,
Wow, this is fascinating.
So I reached out to the local group.
(10:11):
The name of the group was Tri-Ess,the Society for the Second Self.
It was founded by Virginia Prince, outof California, who was a real pioneer in
her own right in the gender community.
Well, I needed to be interviewed.
I needed to have a background checkcompleted, because they weren't just gonna
let anyone into one of their functions.
(10:34):
Well, having been cleared, I wasinformed that they hold their
meeting at a local hotel wherethey rent one of the meeting rooms.
So I decided,
Okay.
Because I was living part-time infem when I could, during that period.
I checked into a room, put myselftogether, went down in full feminine
(10:57):
presentation, and was shocked thatthere were 40 people at the meeting.
35 men dressed as women, andfive women dressed as men.
I was blown away.
And my first reaction was,
God, I'm not the onlycrazy person in the world.
And sharing conversations during thatfirst meeting— and I became a regular
(11:21):
month after, month after month.
The conversations I had with theother individuals, it was like
reliving my own initial journeybecause we all followed the exact
same path, very little deviation.
Well, that group led me to a secondgroup, somewhat larger, and ultimately
(11:43):
to a third support group, very diverse.
And during an outing, a longweekend in New York City, there
was a presentation by Dr. JeffreyMechanick, MD, an endocrinologist
who was working with the community.
He was fresh out of his residency,started his private practice with
(12:07):
his father-in-law, Dr. Fooderwhite,who had been working with the
gender diverse and transgender LGBTQcommunity for like 30 plus years.
And it was thanks to Dr. Mechanickthat the floodgates of information,
and ultimately knowledge, opened.
And I became insatiable inlooking for information.
(12:31):
He did his work as far as myphysical blood work to start
me on feminizing hormones.
Very detailed process.
And I started planning for mytransition, which took place five
years following my initial contactand appointment with Dr. Mechanick.
(12:54):
So here I am in 1990, ready topull the trigger and initiate
my official transformation.
I prefer to consider my life's evolution,not necessarily just a transition.
My parents were stillalive, so I went to myself,
Okay, I need to have a conversationwith them to see how they're going
(13:20):
to respond and react to this.
I already had determined who friendsand family were going to be accepting
and those who would be rejecting, butbeyond that, I was ready for anything.
Took my mother out to dinner.
Irish Catholic.
(13:40):
Explained everything to her and what wasgonna be taking place because I was ready
with my social and legal affirmation.
And over dessert, shelooked at me and said,
"This fits. This makes perfect sense."
And of course, I was stunned and I satthere and I looked at her and said, "What
(14:02):
in God's name are you talking about?"
She said, "I alwaysknew you were different.
I couldn't tell why.
I did not know why.
I just knew you were different.
This fits.
This is a perfect fit for you."
Well, I cannot tell youwhat a relief that was.
I bet that felt so great.
(14:24):
Dr. D.
Oh, words cannot begin to describe it.
What year was that approximately?
It was actually 1989.
Wow.
Right.
Now, time to tell Dad.
So Mom and I took Dad out to dinner.
He's Italian Catholic.
Figure, if Vesuvius is gonna erupt,it's gonna be less likely to occur in a
(14:46):
public place, or at least minimize it.
Shared everything with himthat I shared with my mom.
He sat and listened intently.
And when I was all done,
he asked me three questions.
"Am I happy?"
Yes.
"Am I healthy?"
Yes.
"Am I under good medical care?"
(15:08):
Yes.
He took a deep breath, let out a hugesigh and said, "You know, this is
gonna be an adjustment, so be patientwith me and give me time to adapt."
Well, mom and I, both almostfell out of our chairs, you
know, to have their support...
Did you think you weregonna have their support?
(15:29):
No.
No.
I was ready to be an outcast.
Because of their religious— their culture?
Pretty much the religious, and my fatherwas a blue collar, hardworking, high
school and tech school educated manwith a very narrow worldview, other than
(15:51):
serving in the army in World War ii.
So I was ready for the worst.
I fortunately ended up with the best.
That's great.
Off I went.
You know, mom and I would go out, whetherit's to dinner, shopping, wherever, as
mother/daughter, and of course I wouldbe in the appropriate full fem garb.
(16:14):
When I came to the house or we weregoing out with Dad, I would dress
a little bit more androgynouslyto kind of ease him into the new
presence, and he was wonderful.
It was only one thing he justcouldn't get his head around.
It was my name.
He always called me Diane, not Diana.
So I said,
(16:35):
You know what?
I can live with that.
Well, it's close enough.
At least he's not callingyou your dead name.
True.
My older sister, who was sixyears my senior, who I was never
really close to, like overnight,we bonded like never before.
My younger sister, whois three years my junior,
(16:58):
threw me out with the bath water.
She wanted nothing todo with me whatsoever.
Well, we were never close either.
So basically, I didn't care.
The last time I had any direct contactwith her, being out of necessity,
was my father's funeral in 2011.
(17:20):
You know, I have no idea whereshe's living, what she's doing.
I haven't heard from her.
And as far as I'm concerned,that is perfectly okay.
You know, I have a new self-constructedfamily that I have built.
Mm-hmm.
Many of my personal professionalfriends took a hiatus and disappeared.
(17:41):
Others hung in there, but that's the norm.
But this is one of the verycritical aspects of helping
people through their affirmation
process, Wendy, is being preparedin advance for the eventuality.
Too many individuals, whetheradolescents or adult, will rush
(18:02):
into their formal, legal, and socialaffirmations without adequate planning
or an appreciation of what to expect.
So I was off and running at that point.
1990 January was the official markwhere the butterfly evolved out
(18:23):
of the cocoon, and off I went.
And I truly dedicated a significantportion of my time to research,
study, writing, training, andworking with the community.
Especially with the parents ofindividuals who are transitioning.
Now, what was the norm at that time iswe would transition, my life's evolution.
(18:50):
We would get on with our lives inour affirmed gender, be it affirmed
male, or be it affirmed female.
We didn't wear it on our sleeve.
We didn't wave the prideflag or the transgender flag.
Our goal was to step out into society,personally and professionally, as a
woman, do my work, interact, and get onwith my life that I was supposed to have.
(19:18):
And this is an important step becauseyou need to put the foot forward with
confidence, with poise, with grace.
And even if you may look alittle different to someone,
it's not gonna be an issue.
And if someone misgendersme, I just ignored it.
(19:42):
You know?
Because if you acknowledgeit, you're reinforcing that,
Oh, there's something different here.
And from then on it just continued.
Can we step back into yourchildhood for a minute?
Let me ask you a couple questions there.
Fascinating story, Dr. D.When you were growing up one
(20:04):
of three children, Roman Catholic,Italian, Irish, I'm just picturing this
whole family dynamic, what do you rememberseeing or hearing in your childhood that
gave you an impression of how your parentsor your siblings might have accepted that
there's something different about you?
(20:24):
I really do not have an answer to thatquestion because, well, I felt different.
I had no comprehension, or evena basic understanding, as to
why I was feeling different.
Do you think they treated you differently?
Did they make comments about otherpeople that they saw who were different?
(20:45):
Is there..?
No, none whatsoever.
Remember, we're talking the '60s here,
So people weren't aware of all this.
It was, it was the furthest thingfrom anyone's mind or conversation
other than a few, you know,
Hey, have you heard aboutChristine Jorgensen?
You know?
Exactly.
That came back and, you know,the, now-blonde-bombshell,
(21:07):
and so on and so forth.
That was it.
It was a novelty, but it was notpart of the everyday conversation
as we experience so much today.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the things too, that yousaid was the lack of information.
I told my parents in1958 that I was a girl.
(21:28):
And they threatened to commit me, andI had to start repressing all of this.
But, information, even when Igot to college, there was none.
I can totally relate to everythingthat you just said about that too.
Yeah.
And no concept of why I felt this way.
(21:49):
I just did.
Yeah.
See, unlike in your situation, Iwas not at the point where I can
say that I was a girl and not a boy.
I just knew I was different.
Well when did you start?
You knew you were different and thenyou kind of jumped to cross-dressing,
and going to Tri-Ess, to theconferences, to the meetings.
(22:11):
How did that kind of evolve?
What did you do to copewith this difference?
And when did you start doing thecross-dressing, and doing some
things that made you feel that?
What was the year that you went toyour first support group meeting too?
I was curious about that.
It was probably around 1981.
1982.
Okay.
(22:32):
Wow.
Now, what is very common for someonewho initiates cross-dressing,
specifically assigned male atbirth, is they will access whatever
undergarments within the family maybe available, that could fit them.
And I did that as well.
And then when I was in a position to startordering things online, I did that too.
(22:56):
And then, of course, gettingvideos on skincare, makeup,
you know, all the basics.
Did you have someone who you were modelingyour life after or someone who was a
mentor or a coach in those early years?
I had no one.
(23:16):
So you were figuringthis all out on your own?
Mm-hmm.
It was a hundred percent on my own untilI met the support group Tri-Ess, which
helped launch so much because individualsthere had been cross-dressing for years.
And that organization, the individualswere not on a path to gender affirmation.
(23:37):
They were quite content livingtheir life once a month, or in short
outings, as their alternative gender.
And it was a lot I learned from them.
So did you ever consider staying inthat world and not transitioning,
or once you've discovered them andgot more comfortable and accepted
yourself, you started to evolve?
(23:59):
Well, as I indicated, Tri-Ess led meto group two, which then I learned
about group three, and it was meetingso many other diverse individuals.
'cause group three was a real hodgepodge.
You had the transgender, youhad the gender fluid, the cross
(24:20):
dressers, and whatever mix inbetween it, you could envision.
They were there.
And the more time I spent in public as afemale, the more comfortable it became.
Right.
I was living in New Jersey at the time.
Mm-hmm.
(24:41):
And in total fem presentation, Iwould think nothing of jumping on
the train, going into Manhattan andspending the night or the evening
in Manhattan, having a gay old time.
It just reached a point because Iwas seeing Dr. Mechanick every six
months after the first couple ofyears of being in every three months,
for my hormone therapy and medicaltests, that I, I even shared with
(25:05):
him, I said, "This is who I am."
I mean, this is so comfortable where theother side of me, based on my assignment
at birth, was not fitting anymore.
Mm-hmm.
So the planning started,and that's when I decided,
Okay, January, 1990, this couldbe the official date and time.
(25:33):
Take care of a few things inadvance of that, and off I went.
So you had quite a few years ofliving mostly in a man's body.
Dual lives.
Yeah, dual lives.
So you went in the military.
What were some of the other things youdid to compensate and to cope with the
(25:54):
feelings that you were having with thelives that you were trying to live?
Well, my early days in the military, I wasable to so fully repress and suppress the
feelings that it was no longer an issue.
But it's a pressure cooker.
Mm-hmm.
There have to be consequences of that.
(26:16):
Definitely.
And you cannot keep it lockedup permanently, not without
emotional, psychological, andphysiological complications.
Absolutely.
And then while my stint in the military,I was never outed, as my career there
(26:40):
was progressing, I also knew that Icould hit a dead end in a heartbeat if
the wrong people learned about who I am.
So that just accelerated mydecision to move on, and become
(27:00):
the woman I was destined to be.
How long were you in the military?
And it was active military, not reserve?
About 10 years.
Oh, 10 years, okay.
And what was your role?
I was an intelligence officer.
Of course you're usingthat brain of yours.
Yes.
That does make sense.
The psychology, the sociology,that all fits, doesn't it?
(27:23):
It does.
And I can say thank you verymuch to the military for writing
the checks for those degrees.
Yes.
That's a good thing, isn't it?
It is.
And you gave back in spades, I'm sure.
So, um, any, anything else you didto compensate or even overcompensate?
Nothing particular.
(27:43):
It's just that until I foundthe support group, you know, I
really thought there was somethingwrong with me psychologically.
Which provided me the strength to continuerepressing and suppressing the feeling.
I said, this is not normal.
Mm-hmm.
Until I learned that it is very normal.
(28:07):
'cause we are born this way.
Exactly.
Which is why I love LadyGaga's Born This Way.
Yeah.
Isn't that great?
Mm-hmm.
I love that song.
I love that song.
So you were in the field ofpsychology and sociology.
What kind of inner work did you haveto do to get to the point in 1990
(28:27):
that you said, line in the sand,this is where you're going to evolve?
Coming to a realization through a strongerunderstanding of the neurobiology,
physiology, and the developmentalfactors, before I was even born,
(28:50):
which made me the woman that I am.
Right.
And Dr. Mechanick was a key player in thisjourney of life and evolution because,
well, let me just digress for a moment.
You know, I work with the parents ofadolescents who are transitioning, and
(29:14):
many times they're in a panic becausethey do not understand what's going on.
Some of them recognize the changesin their child's behavior during
prep, pubescence, others don't.
But when I've had an opportunity to sitdown with Mom and Dad and go through
(29:35):
the details of the neurobiology, thephysiology, the variant genes, hormonal
developments, and how fetuses evolve,which we'll get into detail I'm sure in
a later episode, from the default femalevalue the XY, into the masculinized
(29:56):
brain or the complications where thebrain does not become masculinized.
When they have some level of understandingfoundationally, it doesn't ease all
of their anxieties, but at least itbegins to make it tangible for them.
Like,
Oh, this is not some ghost in the room.
(30:17):
So it's the beginning of theirunderstanding how their prepubescent
child or adolescent is now presentinga gender identity, which is different
from their sex assigned at birth.
And the next challenge comes forthe parents is helping them deal
with the extended family, theirfriends, their social networks,
(30:39):
mm-hmm.
their employment, their professional life.
Because that's somethingelse they're not prepared
for.
Right.
And this all flies in the faceof socialization from birth.
Yes.
For everyone.
Yeah.
So for you, a lot of that innerwork had to do with the logical
(30:59):
side of it, of understanding it.
And do you find that thatreally helps the parents?
It helps the parents because aside fromdealing with the factual side of it, I'm
a walking testament to the experience.
And I share with them my life's evolution.
(31:24):
Mm-hmm.
It's not a once time sit down and,
Oh, everything is now great,
but it's a starting point to providethem with reference and reading material.
They will receive a copy of my book,Transgender Families, because that is
written specifically for parents andfamilies, to better understand what is
(31:45):
taking place, and what the process is.
And that's one of the reasonswe wanted to have that other
interview with you to go over that.
Because here are the things, on thenews and social media, and from people
who are in power, that there are twogenders and that's it, and that's
all they'll ever be and no scientific
Sex assigned at birthbased on your anatomy.
(32:07):
No scientific backgroundto what they're saying.
And yet so many people insociety are believing that.
Well, what else do they have to believeuntil they're provided with factual
information that totally contradicts thepolitical arrogance that's coming forward.
And what also the average person doesnot understand, is that globally,
(32:30):
nations and cultures throughoutthe world do not conflate sex
and gender the way they do inWestern Europe and the Americas.
Right.
When the 16th and 17th centuryEuropean settlers came to the
North American continent, they wereshocked by two things that they saw.
(32:51):
One, when they encountered theindigenous tribes, they spoke English.
The other was they had individuals in veryinfluential roles—shamans, tribal leaders—
mm-hmm.
who were gender fluid or transgender.
If you look at the 570 federallyrecognized indigenous tribes here
in the United States, that's still avery important part of their culture.
(33:14):
Yes.
Even the 200 tribes that arenot federally recognized.
This is nothing new.
It's been going aroundfor thousands of years.
It's been a part of humanity.
And you look at the continent of India.
They have a Hijra population, over3 million individuals assigned
male at birth who live as females.
(33:36):
Bangladesh established a mosquefor the Hijra population in their
societies, and the list goes on.
This is nothing new.
And when I share all this in myseminars or when I'm working with
parents, I mean the eyes become thesize of grapefruits and it's like,
mm-hmm.
We had no idea.
(33:58):
I said, "Well, how could you, when all youhear are myths, hyperbole, pathological
assumptions and political arrogance,none of which have any basis in fact."
Right.
Well, and I don't believeeverybody is totally closed-minded.
I think what you're saying isthat they just have not been
exposed to this information.
They don't think to look for it,they don't know where to look for it.
(34:19):
Like from of your experiencein your early life.
So you know, how do they know?
Well, let's go back to the '60s,and '70s, and the late '50s, with
the gay and lesbian movement.
Same thing.
You know, how many decades did ittake before it became more mainstream?
(34:40):
Mm-hmm.
And more commonplace.
And in many circles,all the more acceptable.
Mm-hmm.
We're at that point
where we they were 40, 50 years ago.
Exactly.
I was told in 1971 when I triedto transition, that this was
psychological, no treatment, no cure.
(35:02):
By a psychiatrist.
In front of a group of psychiatrists.
Oh, yeah.
And gay people had thesame diagnosis until 1973.
Well, what's interesting about the
DSM, DSM-1, and now the DSM-5-TR,
(35:24):
the classifications are not basedon clinical or scientific research.
The classifications are based on consensusof opinion by the psychiatrists in the
committees that work on that segment.
And for the gay and lesbiancommunity, it took years to remove
(35:46):
the pathology and the stigma.
Now, we went from gender identity disorderto gender dysphoria, which is not perfect.
However, being removed as a disorderwas a step in the right direction.
And I share with folks, the reasonfor the dysphoria classification,
(36:10):
is that insurance companies need adiagnosis in order to offer coverage.
That goes back to our healthcare system.
Alright, so.
It's not a stigma.
Mm-hmm.
Because when I relocated to Pennsylvaniaand traveling to Manhattan to
(36:32):
see Dr. Mechanick was no longerconvenient, especially post COVID.
I sought out a local primarycare physician to take over my
healthcare and my medication.
So I looked through the directories,found a woman listed LGBTQ+,
(36:53):
blah, blah, blah, and her profile.
So I chose her.
Had a very good firstappointment with her.
She was more than willing to takeover the prescription management,
as well as the medical profiling.
And when I turned home and I read thechart, because through the EPIC system,
(37:13):
the web portal, I can see everything,her diagnosis was gender dysphoria.
Well, I wrote her a two-page note
and I said, "Tell mewhere there is dysphoria."
You're a woman.
What's the question?
(37:34):
Precisely.
I said, "For 32 years, this is who I am.
There is no dysphoria.
I said, you cannot use that as adiagnosis." So we spoke and she said,
"Would it be acceptable if I used'previous gender dysphoria in childhood?'"
(37:58):
Yeah, you could use thatbecause that's appropriate.
She's been wonderful.
Okay.
And she has a copy of my book.
She texts and emails me withquestions when, 'cause she has a
family practice, things surface.
I've been seeing her now three years.
(38:18):
She's wonderful.
You've educated her.
Yeah.
And that was a way aroundthe medical system.
Yeah, so my gynecologist, because Ido want to have an exam once a year,
even though I do not have a cervix,
she was fascinated when I wasin for my first appointment.
Mm-hmm.
(38:38):
I have a cardiologist because whenI turned 70 I figured, you know,
Maybe it's time to justmake sure everything's well.
And that was prior to in December,ending up with a, what they call a
superventricular tachycardia eventbased on, but caused, caused by
atrial ventricular nodal reenteringtachycardia, where out of nowhere my
(39:01):
heart rate decided to peak at about 187.
So off to the emergency department,overnight in the hospital,
echocardiogram, stress tests.
The works.
The staff could not have been better.
The physicians, the nurses, the aides.
And they would come in because it's inmy chart that I'm an affirmed woman,
(39:25):
and they would come in with questions,intelligent questions, and this
month I'll be doing a program for thephysicians during their grand rounds.
Wow.
Wonderful.
That's absolutely amazing.
Wonderful.
Continue to educate.
Thank you.
That is so important.
For them to meet someone, andto see you're human, you have
(39:48):
human needs, and human should nothave that much of a heart rate.
There issues there.
Yeah.
Well, fortunately I've had noproblems since, but I have to
acknowledge too, when a doctorfirst walked into the examining room
and said, "Hi, my name is Dr. So-and-So"
(40:10):
"Very pleased to meetyou, I am Dr. Sorrentino."
It changes the dynamic immediately.
Mm-hmm.
But for those who cannot, or do nothave the ability to flaunt a higher
level degree, be professional,present yourself appropriately.
(40:31):
Mm-hmm.
Be the woman or be the manyou were destined to be.
With confidence, with dignity, withpoise, you won't have a problem.
I mean, even when I wasadmitted to the floor, it was
an intermediate coronary unit.
(40:51):
The nurses would come in and go,
"Can I ask you a question?"
And they were intelligent questions.
And when they're intelligent questions,I will answer anything they ask.
You're being your congruent self, andyou're showing that, and so you don't
give people anything to question.
This is who you are, and that's wonderful.
(41:12):
That's so important to be open withpeople when you have that opportunity
to be so, and be safe doing it.
And talk with them.
It makes all the difference in the world.
That's what I found out during myfirst week of living full-time.
There are two major hospitalsystems in the area where I live.
(41:33):
The other one, I received a call askingif I would be willing to come in and do
a program for their medical residents whoare going into family practice because
they knew that there was gonna be sooneror later a time when, whether it's a
prepubescent child, an adolescent, oreven an adult, would be coming into their
(41:57):
panel with gender dysphoria, or genderincongruent presentations or issues.
So I was invited in, I did a two hourprogram for 40 medical residents,
and again, another foot in the door.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, after I had my surgery atNYUI volunteered at the medical
(42:18):
school as a practice patient forthe third year medical students,
and I had a blast doing that.
Yeah.
It was fun.
And it's educational, it's fun,and it reaffirms also who we are.
Mm-hmm.
(42:39):
And my surgeon also had surgery classesfor all the patients that were coming in.
In the next quarter.
They'd fill up an auditorium, they'dbring family members, all of that, and
I'd be on stage with two or three otherpost-op patients answering questions.
(42:59):
And that was so empowering personally,and I learned so much about what
people didn't know coming into thatsituation, even within our own community.
Well, this gets also back to whatyou're doing, Wendy, is you're becoming
a mentor to so many individuals,helping them through the process.
(43:24):
I do very much the same thing.
Mm-hmm.
Because working with a gender diverse ortransgender individual today requires an
interdisciplinary team of professionals.
Exactly.
You can have the primary care physician,the endocrinologist, the surgeon.
(43:45):
You might have an otolaryngologistto help with the voice.
You know, there are so manycritical people, the psychologist.
But the individual, the affirmedindividual who can work with the
individual and their families,one with the life experience,
(44:05):
mm-hmm.
is a cog in the wheel thatholds it all together.
I agree.
And that's been my experience doing this.
Diana, you've worked with so many people.
Can you share just a couple ofstories, anonymously, of course, about
things that you've seen change, youknow, how people have changed some
(44:26):
of the success story that you'veseen with people you've worked with?
Well, on the negative side ofthe coin, I've seen too many
adolescents that were rejectedand expelled from their household.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And the reality is, from myperspective, it has nothing to do with
(44:48):
the adolescents gender affirmationto a gender that's different from
their sex assignment at birth.
It has everything to do with theparent or parent's, plural, refusal
to accept it because of their fear ofhow it's going to impact their life.
(45:09):
And I've run into that.
A lot.
Because when the parents are willingto meet with me, and of course I give
them the background, neurobiology,physiology, variant genes, et cetera,
and then I pause and I'lllook at them and ask,
"Okay, what are your fears beyond yourconcerns for your child or adolescent?
(45:33):
What are your fears?
What are your concerns?"
What do they tell you?
It varies from my child is dying.
I said,
"No, your child is coming out of thecocoon as a beautiful monarch butterfly.
This is a natural progression."
(45:53):
The challenge parents will run intois if with the assigned male at birth,
especially if Dad is a business owner
mm-hmm.
From the day that child pops out,the life is planned and this is
gonna be my business partner.
And when that assigned male at birthbecomes female, all that is gone.
(46:16):
Well, why couldn't a femalebe the business partner?
I mean, there's part of thesocialization there too, right?
There's nothing to prevent that.
But the mindset is so different.
It is.
Exactly.
But also, the male child typicallyhas a stronger bond to the father,
and the female child has a typicallystronger bond to the mother.
(46:37):
It's been documented that once theytransition, that dynamic shifts where the
assigned male at birth who transitionsto female now gets closer to Mom.
The assigned female at birth whotransition to male now gets closer to Dad.
So it's an adjustment, but theother part of the fear is what
(46:58):
am I gonna tell my family?
What am I gonna tell myfriends in social networks?
Are they gonna reject me?
Are they gonna criticize me?
Are they gonna reportme to child services?
I mean, it's amazing how their mind canswirl with so much negative thought.
I've seen it all too.
(47:18):
And it comes, my work comes down tobuilding their strength, building their
acceptance, building their knowledge todeal with the fears that they perceive.
Mm-hmm.
And what happens in your experiencewhen they don't accept their child?
It's traumatic for the child.
(47:39):
Mm-hmm.
Or the adolescent.
And make a point here.
I always differentiate prepubescentfrom adolescent because the
prepubescent child is not eligiblefor any form of medical or surgical
intervention until the onset of puberty.
And even with the onset of puberty,it doesn't happen overnight.
(48:04):
Puberty blockers, gonadotropin releasinghormone agonists, are used to put a
pause button on the developing sexcharacteristics that would be associated
with their sex assignment at birth.
Essential for theassigned female at birth.
Cross sex, gender affirminghormones would not even begin
to be introduced until 15 or
(48:25):
16. Now, for girls,assigned female at birth, 10
to 12 is puberty, for boys, 12 to 14.
So it's a pause button and it'sreversible if it turns out that
this is not the path for them.
It's discontinued andpuberty kicks back in.
But the psychologist is involved,the endocrinologist is involved,
(48:49):
the family physician is involved.
The mentor is typically involvedat this point to help guide
everyone through the process.
If appropriate, cross-sex hormones, 15or 16, surgery, vaginoplasty for the
assigned male at birth after age 18.
(49:11):
Mm-hmm.
I have a family I'mworking with right now.
The mother is supporting theirassigned male at birth, who
wants to transition to female.
The father, they're divorced, isputting up roadblocks and barricades
every place he can to prevent it.
And the individual, enteringpuberty was panicking about all the
(49:35):
secondary sex characteristics, thedeepening of the voice, the growth
of the Adam's apple, facial hair.
So what I shared with themom and the individual,
"Listen, not being able to goon puberty blockers at age 11 or
12, is not the end of the world."
(49:57):
Age 18, puberty is still in development.
You can intervene then withmedicalization, whether it's
Aldactone as a testosterone blocker,Estradiol, if your voices deepen.
There's a relatively new processwhere under anesthesia, they can
(50:18):
go in through the mouth and shortenthe vocal cords to raise the pitch.
Electrolysis can take care offacial hair, but again, it's not
fully developed by 18, so it'll beinconvenient, but it's not a dead end.
I mean, look at the number ofindividuals like Wendy and myself
who transitioned as adults.
(50:41):
Mm-hmm.
Well, past pubertal development.
And things we had to do to putourselves together as we wanted to be.
Okay.
Now, I was very fortunate.
I had somewhat of a babyface ever since day one.
But these are concerns thatparents and the individuals have.
(51:04):
And again, like this one parent, thefather, it's more about him than it
is about their emerging adolescent.
He has no solid relationship withany of his other biological children.
One of whom has recently beendiagnosed as being bipolar.
(51:25):
And it was like,
Okay, time to reject him as well.
So, you know, this iswhat you're dealing with.
He, we agreed to meet with me back in theearly part of the year with the mother.
They've been divorced for almost 12 years.
And, I shared all what I wouldnormally do with a first meeting.
He refuses to meet with me againbecause he knows what's gonna
(51:49):
come, and nothing he wants tostand on is going to be supported.
So that's a little bit ofthe digressive history.
Well, and you talked when we spokethe other day too, and you've seen
statistics, you've studied suicide rates.
What do you see as far as suicidalideation in young people and
(52:10):
the people that you work with?
Adolescents particularly, who are notsupported by their families, have a
suicidal ideation rate as high as 70%.
70%, seven-zero.
That's horrible.
And I've often thought too, uh, oneof the times where I actually thought
(52:32):
of suicide, if I had done it, no onewould know why, because I wasn't out.
And families are not goingto make that visible.
So I bet the statisticsare even higher than 70%.
Well, as far as ideation isconcerned, no, I think it's around
that 65%, 70%, plus or minus.
(52:54):
The attempted suicide rate can beas high as 40% for that population.
The death by suicide rate is almost 20%.
Mm-hmm.
That we know of.
Yeah.
And
not always known that that was thereason for the death of suicide.
(53:14):
Mm-hmm.
Now, what's interesting, and thestatistics bear this out, are the
adolescents incongruent gender identity,who are supported by their family, their
parents, their suicidal ideation rateis lower than their cisgender peers.
Exactly.
(53:35):
Because they're happy.
They're accepted.
They're happy, they're supported.
Yep.
They're encouraged, they're loved.
Mm-hmm.
I think in one of the documents Ishared with you in advance of our
chatting today was the negative impactof adverse childhood experiences.
Mm-hmm.
And those experiences willcontinue into adolescence.
(54:00):
Kaiser Permanente worked with the CDCto do their study back in the nineties.
They were looking at agegroups up to 18 years of age.
Mm.
And the long term physiological,psychological, emotional
impact is lifelong.
Especially the physiological.
(54:22):
Stays with them, doesn't it?
Yeah.
It's so sad.
So one adverse childhoodexperience can increase depression
in an individual by 50%.
Four or more can increase it to over 200%.
Hmm.
So keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you so much for what you're doing.
(54:42):
And there are ripple effects.
I'm sure it takes a while.
It certainly does.
I'd like to ask yousome personal questions.
Go ahead.
Ask what you would like.
I might plead the fifth,but otherwise go for it.
No deflecting on this one, Dr. D. Howis life as an affirmed woman, full-time,
(55:03):
different than your expectations?
It's not.
That's the crazy part of it.
Isn't that cool?
Once I adopted my femaleidentity full-time, legally
and socially, it was like,
Why did I wait so long?
(55:24):
And how old were you at that time?
I was 35.
January of 1990.
How did you feel aboutgiving up male privilege?
Or did that even enter your thinking?
Never even entered my mind.
I never considered it a privilege.
Well, the other thing too, ismy career actually was enhanced
(55:45):
professionally following my affirmation.
Because I was no longer livingtwo lives, I was not confused,
or still somewhat depressed, oranxious about being found out.
It was like,
Why did I wait so long?
Yeah.
So what surprises you about your life?
(56:09):
Surprises me?
Yeah.
That I've been assuccessful as I have been.
You know, my new family that I'vebuilt through friends and colleagues.
Okay.
I had the opportunities you mentionedduring my introduction about doing
(56:32):
seminars and presentations at universitiesand hospitals, you know, civics groups.
I mean, it's just..
I allowed myself to be my true self.
What a gift.
Yeah.
It took a while, but I got there.
(56:55):
And so many people cannot say that.
Dr. D.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Whether they're cisgender,transgender, I wish we had more
people who could say that same thing.
Yeah.
And for me, having opportunityto be involved with such diverse
support groups just aidedsignificantly in my comfort level.
(57:17):
And coming to the realization, ofcourse, of my endocrinologist, Dr.
Mechanick,
This is who I am.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I hold the spiritualbelief that things happen the
way they're supposed to happen.
That we kind of come in with a purpose,things eventually work that way.
Is there anything in your faithor in your beliefs that are
(57:40):
like that or counter to that?
Well, nothing particularthat countered that.
By the time I was finished withgrammar school, kindergarten through
eighth grade with instructors, allthe teachers were Dominican nuns.
Okay.
Yeah.
When high school came around, my parentswanted me to go to a Catholic high school.
(58:04):
I said, no, because the localcity where I lived, the high
school was in walking distances.
Why do I need to take two or threebuses a day to get to and from school
when I can walk around the block?
And I did that route, which basically putthe religious aspect of my life, not even
(58:26):
on hold, it was like I threw it away.
So it was more a logistical decisionthan it was rejecting any sort of...
Yeah.
Well, it was a logistical.
It worked out.
So what unexpected lessonshave you had in your life?
That's a good question.
(58:47):
I mean, unexpected lessons, I could notidentify them as such because life is full
of so many lessons that are unexpected.
And whether in my current role,my current life as an affirmed
woman, or before, I mean, there'snothing that really stands out.
(59:08):
Not just one.
Huh?
Not just one.
Okay.
Well then let me ask you this.
You're visible, you're out thereall the time, you're meeting people.
Do you get any blowbacks from that?
Well, let me share this example with you.
Several years ago, I was invitedto deliver the keynote address
(59:31):
for LGBTQ History Month at HopeCollege in Holland, Michigan.
I accepted the invitation.
Well, while I was out there inpreparation for the evening, it was like,
Oh, by the way, we would like torecord this and put it on YouTube.
And my initial responseinternally was, *ahh*
(59:54):
because some people would say Iwas living a stealthy life because
I wasn't wearing it on my sleeve.
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, Do I really wanna do this?
They said, "We'll give you a bonuson your honorarium if you do this."
So I thought about it.
And said, You know, maybe it's time.
(01:00:15):
Maybe it's time for me to comeout of the closet per se, even
though I was never closeted.
So we had a discussion and I said,
"I will agree to you putting it onYouTube with the caveat if I receive
one ounce of blowback.." because themajority of my professional work, which
sustains me financially, is corporate.
(01:00:37):
The other work is morereturning to the community.
I said,
"One ounce of blowback,you pull the video."
And that was the agreement.
It was planning to run for one year only.
It ran for the full year,not a scrap of blowback.
Mm-hmm.
The, the positive feedback thecollege received from the alumni
(01:01:02):
was overwhelmingly positive and HopeCollege is a Christian university.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, Margo, who was the organizerwho scheduled me to come out, she goes,
"Dr. D, people need to hear yourvoice. You have to be heard."
(01:01:25):
And she was the boot in thebutt that got me moving.
Mm-hmm.
That's why she is dedicated inthe acknowledgements in my book.
After that program, my phone startedringing for additional programs in
other institutions and locations.
And to this day I've had zero blowback.
Now, I did have a client, a corporateclient in the Midwest who eventually
(01:01:50):
found out that I was an affirmed woman.
And being in a redneck super redstate, um, well that was the last
time I did any work for them.
I mean, they wouldn't respondto my phone calls afterwards.
There was other work they wantedme to do, so I went, alright.
I was sort of expecting it, butit was a good gig while it lasted.
(01:02:11):
But other than that, I mean, no problems.
Personally, professionally, on thestreet in my travels, vacations.
That's wonderful.
So being a human being who'stransgender, how has that influenced
your thoughts and your feelingsabout what it's like to be human?
(01:02:35):
Well, I don't consider myself trans.
I'm a woman.
Right.
My mind has been a womansince the day I was born.
Mm-hmm.
It just took me 35 years to get herto realize who she was and make the
shift so that everything was congruent.
(01:02:57):
Mm-hmm.
I like to say it as, we'vebecome who we've always been.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Unknown quote,
My problem is not that I wasborn transgender, my problem
is I was not born a woman.
Mm-hmm.
When you really were born awoman, just, you had a different,
(01:03:18):
um, costume you were wearing.
Yes.
Different facade.
Yes.
We're close to winding up now,Dr. D, and this has been fabulous.
I'm so looking forward tohaving another or two or three.
What would you like our audience to know?
What's one last piece of wisdom thatyou can share with our audience?
It's very challenging—even today withall the information that's available—
(01:03:44):
to, with confidence, strength, anddignity, embrace your authentic self
in contrast to your sex assignmentat birth, regardless male or female,
and move forward with whoyou are destined to be.
With or without the supportof those around you.
(01:04:12):
Do your research.
Find peers, mentors, supportorganizations, and make sure
that the information you'reaccessing is from credible sources.
(01:04:32):
Dispel the myths, dispel hyperbole, dispelthe pathological assumptions, and ignore
the political, geopolitical arrogancebecause they're pursuing agendas to suit
their ideological perspective of what lifeshould be for everyone, with no desire
(01:04:59):
to learn and understand the biology,the physiology of gender diversity, its
origin, its development, and the factthat we've been around for thousands of
years does not take a lot of research.
(01:05:20):
But people are lazy and they don't.
Right.
Well, how often have you heard the phrasepeople read headlines, not articles.
Mm-hmm.
And if you read the article, you'llcome to realization at the headline,
you ask, well, What does theheadline got to do with the article?
Yeah.
It's clickbait.
You've gotta have some word in itthat grabs people's attention that
(01:05:41):
really has nothing in the article.
Exactly.
I've very much enjoyed our conversationtoday, and I find it absolutely
amazing that you actually startedin 1985, and did affirm in 1990.
(01:06:05):
In hindsight I wish I done that too, butI had the full trauma of 1971, and my
parents threatening to commit me, andthat's what just drove me back into the
closet as it were until, 2014 when Ifound out that everything had changed.
(01:06:29):
Yeah.
And once I did that and found that out,I was able to transition in six months.
I agree with you completely, this feelingof living authentically is absolutely
the best experience of my entire life.
It also physiologically improvedthe hell out of my health.
(01:06:54):
This gets back to the impact of stress.
Mm-hmm.
And the negative impact, that isthe reason why I wrote the book,
Neurobiology Physiology of IncongruentGender Identities and Sexual
Orientation— it's a biology book.
It's a graduate level biology bookon the intricacies, the complexities,
(01:07:18):
of different sexual orientationsand gender identities, but also
the impact on this body at large.
Mm-hmm.
And in my book,
Adolescent Gender AffirmingMedical and Behavioral Healthcare,
who had the privilege of having Dr.Christine Hartigan write the forward for
(01:07:41):
it, uh, because she works extensivelywith the community, primarily adolescents
mm-hmm.
is to get into the details ofhow to process the affirmation.
And there's an entire chapter, 30some odd pages, which will probably
be closer to 70 pages in the book,just on adverse childhood experiences.
(01:08:06):
Mm-hmm.
And the long term impact thatthat has on an individual.
This has been fascinatingtoday, and I love your approach.
I love that you're out there sharingwho you are, and sharing this research,
and making it accessible to people.
That's what we need todo, is keep educating.
(01:08:28):
Well, one thing I've learned overthe years, even before my formal
affirmation, because in my previousrole, I did quite a bit of training.
What I'm getting at is the more researchI've done, the more training I do.
(01:08:49):
I learn more than my students.
Mm-hmm.
That's always the wayit happens, isn't it?
So for me, that's my selfishmodem, is it builds my knowledge.
Mm-hmm.
And then ultimately my value andcredibility when I do a program.
(01:09:11):
I mean, you've had an opportunityto see some of the supplemental
chapters from my other two books.
Um, you were kind enough to purchasea copy of Transgender Families, and
that's broken down into six parts.
The first three deal with the biology, thephysiology, the emotional, the psychology
for parents, the foundational aspect ofthe history of gender diverse transgender,
(01:09:36):
kinda like building the foundation.
The latter three parts, uh, partfour, is dealing with the prepubescent
child and it's the shortest chapter.
In the book because there's reallynothing to talk about unless the
prepubescent child has behavioral issues.
Mm-hmm.
Then you bring 'em to achild's psychologist who's
experienced in early development.
(01:09:59):
The largest chapter is the fifth part.
I think it's an 11 chapters thereon adolescent emergence, and then
a condensed chapter for the adults.
But what makes it really valuabletoo are the appendices, recommended
reading, website hot links,organizations, supports, definitions,
(01:10:25):
to support the parents and families.
There is so much there.
I just got it the other day, so I'veonly just skimmed through it, but
it's so comprehensive, Dr. D, andthank you for putting that out there.
I hope more people will go looking forthat and we will put that link below.
It's available on Amazon, Barnes andNoble, even the local bookstores, if
(01:10:46):
they do not have it, can get it for them.
Mm-hmm.
Just to put it in perspective tothree different books, transgender
families came in at 110,000 words.
Publishers do not wannaknow about how many pages.
They wanna know how many words.
So that book was 110,000 words.
It's over 300 pages.
(01:11:07):
365.
Yeah.
The second book, Neurobiology,Physiology, came in at 158,000 words.
The third book came in at 260,000 words.
Oh goodness.
That's why you say it's more ofa biology textbook, isn't it?
Well there, the second book is a biologytextbook, the third book, Adolescent
(01:11:33):
Gender Affirming Medical Behavioral, isa graduate level book for those medical
and behavioral healthcare professionals.
But it's, while it has a lot of technicaljargon, it's all in the definitions.
And there are links.
So all of the resources that I use, thecitations are listed, you know, just
(01:11:56):
like there's citations in TransgenderFamily, but not as extensive.
Well, we will put the link
in the show notes and make sureeverybody can find those that
I can't wait to get into these.
It, you know, it's gonna help me withthe research that I've been doing and
I have a stack of books like crazy.
But, uh, yeah, it's gonna help.
Thank you very much.
What has been so gratifying is withall the different programs that I've
(01:12:19):
been invited to speak to, you know,I bring copies of the books and
they sell, but more importantly, thenumber of mothers who will approach
me at the end of the program to say,
"I purchased your book. Ohmy God, it was so helpful."
Mm-hmm.
It just warms my heart.
(01:12:41):
Well, that's why I wrote it.
You know, you're making a difference.
Yeah.
Big difference.
Do you want to share outyour contact information?
Okay.
You can find me on LinkedInunder Dr. Diana Sorrentino.
I have a very large profile there,and I periodically will post
information, podcast release, othertidbits of information, periodically.
(01:13:07):
My website is
paradoxesofgender.com.
If you go to Google and just put in Dr.Diana Sorrentino PhD, this all comes up.
Right.
I mean, it's amazing how many pageswhen you are in Google, when you just
put my name into the search string.
(01:13:29):
We're certainly glad that youshared your time with us, and shared
your talent with us, and we'relooking forward to the next one.
Well, I shared when we opened theprogram, it's truly a privilege and an
honor for me to spend some quality timewith the two of you, the important work
that you're doing, allowing me to sharemy experiences in this segment, in the
(01:13:50):
future segments, which again, I lookforward to participating, getting into
the knowledge of how we became who we are.
Because once you understand theorigin, then putting the pieces
together becomes so much easier.
(01:14:13):
That was the case for me.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that, it sounds to me like that ledto the self-acceptance and the joy that
you're feeling in your life once thatyou were able to understand, this wasn't
just something that was wrong with you.
And I have never, for amoment regretted the move.
(01:14:36):
I just regret that it took me so long.
But we're dealing with timeframewhere there was no internet.
This was not somethingthat was readily available.
Had I not met Dr. Mechanickafter being involved with the
different support groups, it mayhave been deferred even longer.
(01:14:58):
Mm-hmm.
That was, that was one of the thingsthat I always bring up is that
one of the big differences betweentoday and anything in the last
century, there was no information.
It was very difficult to find anything.
And we didn't walk around withcomputers in our pockets called cell
(01:15:22):
phones attached to the internet.
That didn't exist.
As a 10-year-old, I was so easyto gaslight, Oh, you're the only
one who ever feels like this.
What was I gonna say?
Well, how else can a parent or someoneelse who does not understand, force
(01:15:44):
you into repression and suppressionby telling you that you are the only
nutcase in the world that feels this way?
Yep.
And you've gotta hide this big secret.
I've worked with individuals from themid twenties, I think the oldest person
I worked with was 65, like yourself,who transitioned that late in life.
And for them, it was just a matterof putting a period at the end of
(01:16:07):
the sentence and completing a journeythat was just deferred too long.
Mm-hmm.
That's a wonderful way of saying that.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for this, and let'sthank our audience today for joining us
and spending us this time with us todayon Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
We had a great conversation with Dr.Diana Sorrentino today, and we will
(01:16:30):
have more conversations in the future.
If you haven't seen our previous podcastsor YouTube videos, be sure to find
those under thetransgenderjourney.com.
I've been your host today, Lynn Murphy,and your other host is Wendy Cole.
We will see you next time.
Be sure to like, share, subscribe,make sure that you've got notification
that we're on the air and that you canfind our next and previous podcast.
(01:16:54):
And remember the motto of WomenWho Push the Limits, which I
think definitely applies to Dr. D—
Find your voice, speak yourtruth, and change the world.
And Dr. D, you're doing that.
You're changing the world for people.
So thank you.
So until next time, remember tostay curious, and stay kind, and
we will see you on the next one.
(01:17:15):
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
It's very challenging—even today withall the information that's available—
to, with confidence,strength, and dignity,
embrace your authentic self in contrastto your sex assignment at birth,
regardless male or female,
and move forward with who you aredestined to be, with or without
the support of those around you.
(00:24):
Do your research.
Find peers, mentors,support organizations,
and make sure that theinformation you're accessing
is from credible sources.
Dispel the myth, dispel the hyperbole,dispel the pathological assumptions,
and ignore the political,geopolitical arrogance.
They're pursuing agendas to suittheir ideological perspective of
(00:48):
what life should be for everyone,
with no desire to learn andunderstand, the biology, the physiology
of gender diversity, itsorigin, its development,
and the fact that we've beenaround for thousands of years
does not take a lot of research.
(01:10):
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious, but hesitant to ask questions.
Well, welcome to Demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and their professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
(01:30):
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
Hello, and welcome to another episodeof Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
I'm one of your hosts, Lynn Murphy.
I am an author and speaker and trainerand founder of Women Who Push the Limits.
(01:55):
Also published a best selling book,50 Life Lessons from Inspiring Women.
Your other co-host today is theremarkable, Wendy Cole, who is a
transition mentor and she helpspeople through significant changes
because she transitioned at 67.
And if you don't think that'ssignificant change, there's
nothing that compares, I'm sure.
(02:16):
Our goal here is to interview peoplewho are born transgender, interview
their families, friends, coworkers,healthcare workers, and by sharing their
stories — these powerful stories — wewant you to be able to meet people
who are in the community and tohelp dissuade people from all these
misinformation, and disinformationposts on the news and social media.
(02:41):
We're humanizing the transgenderexperience one fantastic story at a time.
And today we have the honor ofwelcoming a truly amazing guest.
And I'm gonna read thisbecause she has quite a resume.
Dr. Diana Sorrentino PhD is a nationallyrecognized authority on gender
(03:03):
diversity and transgender identity.
Dr. Sorrentino is the authorof several influential books.
Including, I have thishere, which is just amazing.
This one is Transgender Families,helping parents and families understand
gender diversity and being transgender.
(03:24):
And another book is The Neurobiologyand Physiology of Incongruent Gender
Identities and Sexual Orientation.
She also co-authored Adolescent GenderAffirming Medical Behavioral Healthcare,
making her a leading voice in theintersection of science, medicine, and
lived experience as an affirmed woman.
With dual doctoral degreesin sociology and psychology.
(03:48):
Dr. Sorrentino brings a rare depthof academic rigor to her work.
For more than 35 years, she has dedicatedherself to counseling, mentoring, and
supporting gender diverse and transgenderindividuals—as well as their families.
But her impact doesn't stop there.
She also trains and supports medicaland behavioral healthcare professionals,
(04:10):
equipping them with knowledge andskills to deliver affirming care.
And what an open market it is forthat, they are very much needed.
Dr. Sorrentino's experience andexpertise is sought out far and wide.
She's designed and delivered educationalprograms for thousands of professionals,
spoken in countless conferences andsymposiums, and hosts a podcast that
(04:34):
reaches listeners in over 80 countries.
We're jealous.
We want ours to be there.
Her work is rooted in empowerment,advocacy, and awareness, empowering
parents, families, and professionalswith the tools to support transgender
youth, advocating for accessible andtailored healthcare, and fostering
communities that embrace gender diversity.
(04:56):
With over 40 years of research and morethan a thousand educational seminars under
her belt, Dr. Sorrentino is not just anexpert, she's a tireless champion for
understanding, acceptance and change.
Now it is my great privilege to welcomeDr. Diana Sorrentino (Dr. D) to our show,
(05:18):
Lynn.
Wendy.
Thank you.
It is truly an honor to be here to jointhe two of you, and your listeners at
large, and I am more than confidentthat in a relatively short period of
time, your podcast will trump mine,
as far as the number ofcountries with subscribers.
(05:39):
Well, we will support yours, and weknow you will support ours, and we're
trying to get the message out tohumanize the transgender experience.
I really appreciate you being here.
Dr. D.
Again, my honor.
Thank you for being here.
Definitely.
So you have such an extensive resumeand such an amazing life, and we'd like
to start today with your personal life.
(06:02):
I know we're already planning to do asecond interview, and probably a third,
where we're gonna get more into Dr. Dean'sresearch, but today we wanna see who
this person is, up close and personal,who has such an amazing life and who
has done so many incredible things.
Would you share with us alittle bit about your childhood,
your family, your upbringing?
(06:24):
Well, I was raised in a traditionalIrish, Italian, Catholic family.
Middle child, between an oldersister and a younger sister.
What I'll share is, during my prepubescentchildhood, I always felt different.
(06:45):
Could not explain it, did not feelas if I was a different gender
than my sex assignment at birth.
I just felt different.
We had a neighborhood full ofchildren about the same age, and
for whatever reason, I never clickedwith the boys in the neighborhood.
(07:06):
But I always got alongwell with the girls.
Okay.
So that was my prepubescent childhood.
When puberty hit it was likea tsunami of emotion for me.
Whatever I was feeling becamesignificantly more intense, and it
(07:28):
really struck home starting sixth gradeas I returned from summer vacation.
Seeing all the girls in my class maturingand becoming women, and it's like,
Well, how come I'm not?
Mm-hmm.
At the time I had no knowledge of genderdiversity or transgender identities
(07:52):
or for that matter, who to speak to.
My parents— I wouldn'teven know where to begin.
You know, to put a date onme, we're talking 1966 here.
That's when I entered sixth grade.
The only thing you heard about atthat time was Christine Jorgensen.
Exactly.
(08:13):
Originally became a media darling,and then as the media will typically
do things, they turn on her.
But she opened the doors for so manyindividuals who were closeted about their
gender identity—that there was hope.
And Dr. Harry Benjamin is thequintessential expert during his time.
(08:37):
Mm-hmm.
In this realm of genderattribution and transgender issues.
Now, of course, I did not know allof this then, so I struggled a lot.
It was emotionally heavy onme during my adolescence.
And again, who do you talk to?
Where do you go for information?
And what is very typical of individualslike myself assigned male at birth, to
(09:03):
pursue hyper masculine activities toeffectively repress and suppress feelings.
Mm-hmm.
Which I learned over time onlyworks for a short period of time.
Which is why after undergraduateschool, I went into the military.
(09:26):
But I was constantly lookingfor information, for resources.
Mm-hmm.
Coming up empty.
During one of my graduate studies,because I have three master's degrees,
I am searching through the libraryat the university and I found a book.
(09:49):
Where, within the book they referenceda support group, for not so much
transgender, but crossdressers.
You know, individuals who would livepart-time in an alternate gender.
And I went,
Wow, this is fascinating.
So I reached out to the local group.
(10:11):
The name of the group was Tri-Ess,the Society for the Second Self.
It was founded by Virginia Prince, outof California, who was a real pioneer in
her own right in the gender community.
Well, I needed to be interviewed.
I needed to have a background checkcompleted, because they weren't just gonna
let anyone into one of their functions.
(10:34):
Well, having been cleared, I wasinformed that they hold their
meeting at a local hotel wherethey rent one of the meeting rooms.
So I decided,
Okay.
Because I was living part-time infem when I could, during that period.
I checked into a room, put myselftogether, went down in full feminine
(10:57):
presentation, and was shocked thatthere were 40 people at the meeting.
35 men dressed as women, andfive women dressed as men.
I was blown away.
And my first reaction was,
God, I'm not the onlycrazy person in the world.
And sharing conversations during thatfirst meeting— and I became a regular
(11:21):
month after, month after month.
The conversations I had with theother individuals, it was like
reliving my own initial journeybecause we all followed the exact
same path, very little deviation.
Well, that group led me to a secondgroup, somewhat larger, and ultimately
(11:43):
to a third support group, very diverse.
And during an outing, a longweekend in New York City, there
was a presentation by Dr. JeffreyMechanick, MD, an endocrinologist
who was working with the community.
He was fresh out of his residency,started his private practice with
(12:07):
his father-in-law, Dr. Fooderwhite,who had been working with the
gender diverse and transgender LGBTQcommunity for like 30 plus years.
And it was thanks to Dr. Mechanickthat the floodgates of information,
and ultimately knowledge, opened.
And I became insatiable inlooking for information.
(12:31):
He did his work as far as myphysical blood work to start
me on feminizing hormones.
Very detailed process.
And I started planning for mytransition, which took place five
years following my initial contactand appointment with Dr. Mechanick.
(12:54):
So here I am in 1990, ready topull the trigger and initiate
my official transformation.
I prefer to consider my life's evolution,not necessarily just a transition.
My parents were stillalive, so I went to myself,
Okay, I need to have a conversationwith them to see how they're going
(13:20):
to respond and react to this.
I already had determined who friendsand family were going to be accepting
and those who would be rejecting, butbeyond that, I was ready for anything.
Took my mother out to dinner.
Irish Catholic.
(13:40):
Explained everything to her and what wasgonna be taking place because I was ready
with my social and legal affirmation.
And over dessert, shelooked at me and said,
"This fits. This makes perfect sense."
And of course, I was stunned and I satthere and I looked at her and said, "What
(14:02):
in God's name are you talking about?"
She said, "I alwaysknew you were different.
I couldn't tell why.
I did not know why.
I just knew you were different.
This fits.
This is a perfect fit for you."
Well, I cannot tell youwhat a relief that was.
I bet that felt so great.
(14:24):
Dr. D.
Oh, words cannot begin to describe it.
What year was that approximately?
It was actually 1989.
Wow.
Right.
Now, time to tell Dad.
So Mom and I took Dad out to dinner.
He's Italian Catholic.
Figure, if Vesuvius is gonna erupt,it's gonna be less likely to occur in a
(14:46):
public place, or at least minimize it.
Shared everything with himthat I shared with my mom.
He sat and listened intently.
And when I was all done,
he asked me three questions.
"Am I happy?"
Yes.
"Am I healthy?"
Yes.
"Am I under good medical care?"
(15:08):
Yes.
He took a deep breath, let out a hugesigh and said, "You know, this is
gonna be an adjustment, so be patientwith me and give me time to adapt."
Well, mom and I, both almostfell out of our chairs, you
know, to have their support...
Did you think you weregonna have their support?
(15:29):
No.
No.
I was ready to be an outcast.
Because of their religious— their culture?
Pretty much the religious, and my fatherwas a blue collar, hardworking, high
school and tech school educated manwith a very narrow worldview, other than
(15:51):
serving in the army in World War ii.
So I was ready for the worst.
I fortunately ended up with the best.
That's great.
Off I went.
You know, mom and I would go out, whetherit's to dinner, shopping, wherever, as
mother/daughter, and of course I wouldbe in the appropriate full fem garb.
(16:14):
When I came to the house or we weregoing out with Dad, I would dress
a little bit more androgynouslyto kind of ease him into the new
presence, and he was wonderful.
It was only one thing he justcouldn't get his head around.
It was my name.
He always called me Diane, not Diana.
So I said,
(16:35):
You know what?
I can live with that.
Well, it's close enough.
At least he's not callingyou your dead name.
True.
My older sister, who was sixyears my senior, who I was never
really close to, like overnight,we bonded like never before.
My younger sister, whois three years my junior,
(16:58):
threw me out with the bath water.
She wanted nothing todo with me whatsoever.
Well, we were never close either.
So basically, I didn't care.
The last time I had any direct contactwith her, being out of necessity,
was my father's funeral in 2011.
(17:20):
You know, I have no idea whereshe's living, what she's doing.
I haven't heard from her.
And as far as I'm concerned,that is perfectly okay.
You know, I have a new self-constructedfamily that I have built.
Mm-hmm.
Many of my personal professionalfriends took a hiatus and disappeared.
(17:41):
Others hung in there, but that's the norm.
But this is one of the verycritical aspects of helping
people through their affirmation
process, Wendy, is being preparedin advance for the eventuality.
Too many individuals, whetheradolescents or adult, will rush
(18:02):
into their formal, legal, and socialaffirmations without adequate planning
or an appreciation of what to expect.
So I was off and running at that point.
1990 January was the official markwhere the butterfly evolved out
(18:23):
of the cocoon, and off I went.
And I truly dedicated a significantportion of my time to research,
study, writing, training, andworking with the community.
Especially with the parents ofindividuals who are transitioning.
Now, what was the norm at that time iswe would transition, my life's evolution.
(18:50):
We would get on with our lives inour affirmed gender, be it affirmed
male, or be it affirmed female.
We didn't wear it on our sleeve.
We didn't wave the prideflag or the transgender flag.
Our goal was to step out into society,personally and professionally, as a
woman, do my work, interact, and get onwith my life that I was supposed to have.
(19:18):
And this is an important step becauseyou need to put the foot forward with
confidence, with poise, with grace.
And even if you may look alittle different to someone,
it's not gonna be an issue.
And if someone misgendersme, I just ignored it.
(19:42):
You know?
Because if you acknowledgeit, you're reinforcing that,
Oh, there's something different here.
And from then on it just continued.
Can we step back into yourchildhood for a minute?
Let me ask you a couple questions there.
Fascinating story, Dr. D.When you were growing up one
(20:04):
of three children, Roman Catholic,Italian, Irish, I'm just picturing this
whole family dynamic, what do you rememberseeing or hearing in your childhood that
gave you an impression of how your parentsor your siblings might have accepted that
there's something different about you?
(20:24):
I really do not have an answer to thatquestion because, well, I felt different.
I had no comprehension, or evena basic understanding, as to
why I was feeling different.
Do you think they treated you differently?
Did they make comments about otherpeople that they saw who were different?
(20:45):
Is there..?
No, none whatsoever.
Remember, we're talking the '60s here,
So people weren't aware of all this.
It was, it was the furthest thingfrom anyone's mind or conversation
other than a few, you know,
Hey, have you heard aboutChristine Jorgensen?
You know?
Exactly.
That came back and, you know,the, now-blonde-bombshell,
(21:07):
and so on and so forth.
That was it.
It was a novelty, but it was notpart of the everyday conversation
as we experience so much today.
Mm-hmm.
And one of the things too, that yousaid was the lack of information.
I told my parents in1958 that I was a girl.
(21:28):
And they threatened to commit me, andI had to start repressing all of this.
But, information, even when Igot to college, there was none.
I can totally relate to everythingthat you just said about that too.
Yeah.
And no concept of why I felt this way.
(21:49):
I just did.
Yeah.
See, unlike in your situation, Iwas not at the point where I can
say that I was a girl and not a boy.
I just knew I was different.
Well when did you start?
You knew you were different and thenyou kind of jumped to cross-dressing,
and going to Tri-Ess, to theconferences, to the meetings.
(22:11):
How did that kind of evolve?
What did you do to copewith this difference?
And when did you start doing thecross-dressing, and doing some
things that made you feel that?
What was the year that you went toyour first support group meeting too?
I was curious about that.
It was probably around 1981.
1982.
Okay.
(22:32):
Wow.
Now, what is very common for someonewho initiates cross-dressing,
specifically assigned male atbirth, is they will access whatever
undergarments within the family maybe available, that could fit them.
And I did that as well.
And then when I was in a position to startordering things online, I did that too.
(22:56):
And then, of course, gettingvideos on skincare, makeup,
you know, all the basics.
Did you have someone who you were modelingyour life after or someone who was a
mentor or a coach in those early years?
I had no one.
(23:16):
So you were figuringthis all out on your own?
Mm-hmm.
It was a hundred percent on my own untilI met the support group Tri-Ess, which
helped launch so much because individualsthere had been cross-dressing for years.
And that organization, the individualswere not on a path to gender affirmation.
(23:37):
They were quite content livingtheir life once a month, or in short
outings, as their alternative gender.
And it was a lot I learned from them.
So did you ever consider staying inthat world and not transitioning,
or once you've discovered them andgot more comfortable and accepted
yourself, you started to evolve?
(23:59):
Well, as I indicated, Tri-Ess led meto group two, which then I learned
about group three, and it was meetingso many other diverse individuals.
'cause group three was a real hodgepodge.
You had the transgender, youhad the gender fluid, the cross
(24:20):
dressers, and whatever mix inbetween it, you could envision.
They were there.
And the more time I spent in public as afemale, the more comfortable it became.
Right.
I was living in New Jersey at the time.
Mm-hmm.
(24:41):
And in total fem presentation, Iwould think nothing of jumping on
the train, going into Manhattan andspending the night or the evening
in Manhattan, having a gay old time.
It just reached a point because Iwas seeing Dr. Mechanick every six
months after the first couple ofyears of being in every three months,
for my hormone therapy and medicaltests, that I, I even shared with
(25:05):
him, I said, "This is who I am."
I mean, this is so comfortable where theother side of me, based on my assignment
at birth, was not fitting anymore.
Mm-hmm.
So the planning started,and that's when I decided,
Okay, January, 1990, this couldbe the official date and time.
(25:33):
Take care of a few things inadvance of that, and off I went.
So you had quite a few years ofliving mostly in a man's body.
Dual lives.
Yeah, dual lives.
So you went in the military.
What were some of the other things youdid to compensate and to cope with the
(25:54):
feelings that you were having with thelives that you were trying to live?
Well, my early days in the military, I wasable to so fully repress and suppress the
feelings that it was no longer an issue.
But it's a pressure cooker.
Mm-hmm.
There have to be consequences of that.
(26:16):
Definitely.
And you cannot keep it lockedup permanently, not without
emotional, psychological, andphysiological complications.
Absolutely.
And then while my stint in the military,I was never outed, as my career there
(26:40):
was progressing, I also knew that Icould hit a dead end in a heartbeat if
the wrong people learned about who I am.
So that just accelerated mydecision to move on, and become
(27:00):
the woman I was destined to be.
How long were you in the military?
And it was active military, not reserve?
About 10 years.
Oh, 10 years, okay.
And what was your role?
I was an intelligence officer.
Of course you're usingthat brain of yours.
Yes.
That does make sense.
The psychology, the sociology,that all fits, doesn't it?
(27:23):
It does.
And I can say thank you verymuch to the military for writing
the checks for those degrees.
Yes.
That's a good thing, isn't it?
It is.
And you gave back in spades, I'm sure.
So, um, any, anything else you didto compensate or even overcompensate?
Nothing particular.
(27:43):
It's just that until I foundthe support group, you know, I
really thought there was somethingwrong with me psychologically.
Which provided me the strength to continuerepressing and suppressing the feeling.
I said, this is not normal.
Mm-hmm.
Until I learned that it is very normal.
(28:07):
'cause we are born this way.
Exactly.
Which is why I love LadyGaga's Born This Way.
Yeah.
Isn't that great?
Mm-hmm.
I love that song.
I love that song.
So you were in the field ofpsychology and sociology.
What kind of inner work did you haveto do to get to the point in 1990
(28:27):
that you said, line in the sand,this is where you're going to evolve?
Coming to a realization through a strongerunderstanding of the neurobiology,
physiology, and the developmentalfactors, before I was even born,
(28:50):
which made me the woman that I am.
Right.
And Dr. Mechanick was a key player in thisjourney of life and evolution because,
well, let me just digress for a moment.
You know, I work with the parents ofadolescents who are transitioning, and
(29:14):
many times they're in a panic becausethey do not understand what's going on.
Some of them recognize the changesin their child's behavior during
prep, pubescence, others don't.
But when I've had an opportunity to sitdown with Mom and Dad and go through
(29:35):
the details of the neurobiology, thephysiology, the variant genes, hormonal
developments, and how fetuses evolve,which we'll get into detail I'm sure in
a later episode, from the default femalevalue the XY, into the masculinized
(29:56):
brain or the complications where thebrain does not become masculinized.
When they have some level of understandingfoundationally, it doesn't ease all
of their anxieties, but at least itbegins to make it tangible for them.
Like,
Oh, this is not some ghost in the room.
(30:17):
So it's the beginning of theirunderstanding how their prepubescent
child or adolescent is now presentinga gender identity, which is different
from their sex assigned at birth.
And the next challenge comes forthe parents is helping them deal
with the extended family, theirfriends, their social networks,
(30:39):
mm-hmm.
their employment, their professional life.
Because that's somethingelse they're not prepared
for.
Right.
And this all flies in the faceof socialization from birth.
Yes.
For everyone.
Yeah.
So for you, a lot of that innerwork had to do with the logical
(30:59):
side of it, of understanding it.
And do you find that thatreally helps the parents?
It helps the parents because aside fromdealing with the factual side of it, I'm
a walking testament to the experience.
And I share with them my life's evolution.
(31:24):
Mm-hmm.
It's not a once time sit down and,
Oh, everything is now great,
but it's a starting point to providethem with reference and reading material.
They will receive a copy of my book,Transgender Families, because that is
written specifically for parents andfamilies, to better understand what is
(31:45):
taking place, and what the process is.
And that's one of the reasonswe wanted to have that other
interview with you to go over that.
Because here are the things, on thenews and social media, and from people
who are in power, that there are twogenders and that's it, and that's
all they'll ever be and no scientific
Sex assigned at birthbased on your anatomy.
(32:07):
No scientific backgroundto what they're saying.
And yet so many people insociety are believing that.
Well, what else do they have to believeuntil they're provided with factual
information that totally contradicts thepolitical arrogance that's coming forward.
And what also the average person doesnot understand, is that globally,
(32:30):
nations and cultures throughoutthe world do not conflate sex
and gender the way they do inWestern Europe and the Americas.
Right.
When the 16th and 17th centuryEuropean settlers came to the
North American continent, they wereshocked by two things that they saw.
(32:51):
One, when they encountered theindigenous tribes, they spoke English.
The other was they had individuals in veryinfluential roles—shamans, tribal leaders—
mm-hmm.
who were gender fluid or transgender.
If you look at the 570 federallyrecognized indigenous tribes here
in the United States, that's still avery important part of their culture.
(33:14):
Yes.
Even the 200 tribes that arenot federally recognized.
This is nothing new.
It's been going aroundfor thousands of years.
It's been a part of humanity.
And you look at the continent of India.
They have a Hijra population, over3 million individuals assigned
male at birth who live as females.
(33:36):
Bangladesh established a mosquefor the Hijra population in their
societies, and the list goes on.
This is nothing new.
And when I share all this in myseminars or when I'm working with
parents, I mean the eyes become thesize of grapefruits and it's like,
mm-hmm.
We had no idea.
(33:58):
I said, "Well, how could you, when all youhear are myths, hyperbole, pathological
assumptions and political arrogance,none of which have any basis in fact."
Right.
Well, and I don't believeeverybody is totally closed-minded.
I think what you're saying isthat they just have not been
exposed to this information.
They don't think to look for it,they don't know where to look for it.
(34:19):
Like from of your experiencein your early life.
So you know, how do they know?
Well, let's go back to the '60s,and '70s, and the late '50s, with
the gay and lesbian movement.
Same thing.
You know, how many decades did ittake before it became more mainstream?
(34:40):
Mm-hmm.
And more commonplace.
And in many circles,all the more acceptable.
Mm-hmm.
We're at that point
where we they were 40, 50 years ago.
Exactly.
I was told in 1971 when I triedto transition, that this was
psychological, no treatment, no cure.
(35:02):
By a psychiatrist.
In front of a group of psychiatrists.
Oh, yeah.
And gay people had thesame diagnosis until 1973.
Well, what's interesting about the
DSM, DSM-1, and now the DSM-5-TR,
(35:24):
the classifications are not basedon clinical or scientific research.
The classifications are based on consensusof opinion by the psychiatrists in the
committees that work on that segment.
And for the gay and lesbiancommunity, it took years to remove
(35:46):
the pathology and the stigma.
Now, we went from gender identity disorderto gender dysphoria, which is not perfect.
However, being removed as a disorderwas a step in the right direction.
And I share with folks, the reasonfor the dysphoria classification,
(36:10):
is that insurance companies need adiagnosis in order to offer coverage.
That goes back to our healthcare system.
Alright, so.
It's not a stigma.
Mm-hmm.
Because when I relocated to Pennsylvaniaand traveling to Manhattan to
(36:32):
see Dr. Mechanick was no longerconvenient, especially post COVID.
I sought out a local primarycare physician to take over my
healthcare and my medication.
So I looked through the directories,found a woman listed LGBTQ+,
(36:53):
blah, blah, blah, and her profile.
So I chose her.
Had a very good firstappointment with her.
She was more than willing to takeover the prescription management,
as well as the medical profiling.
And when I turned home and I read thechart, because through the EPIC system,
(37:13):
the web portal, I can see everything,her diagnosis was gender dysphoria.
Well, I wrote her a two-page note
and I said, "Tell mewhere there is dysphoria."
You're a woman.
What's the question?
(37:34):
Precisely.
I said, "For 32 years, this is who I am.
There is no dysphoria.
I said, you cannot use that as adiagnosis." So we spoke and she said,
"Would it be acceptable if I used'previous gender dysphoria in childhood?'"
(37:58):
Yeah, you could use thatbecause that's appropriate.
She's been wonderful.
Okay.
And she has a copy of my book.
She texts and emails me withquestions when, 'cause she has a
family practice, things surface.
I've been seeing her now three years.
(38:18):
She's wonderful.
You've educated her.
Yeah.
And that was a way aroundthe medical system.
Yeah, so my gynecologist, because Ido want to have an exam once a year,
even though I do not have a cervix,
she was fascinated when I wasin for my first appointment.
Mm-hmm.
(38:38):
I have a cardiologist because whenI turned 70 I figured, you know,
Maybe it's time to justmake sure everything's well.
And that was prior to in December,ending up with a, what they call a
superventricular tachycardia eventbased on, but caused, caused by
atrial ventricular nodal reenteringtachycardia, where out of nowhere my
(39:01):
heart rate decided to peak at about 187.
So off to the emergency department,overnight in the hospital,
echocardiogram, stress tests.
The works.
The staff could not have been better.
The physicians, the nurses, the aides.
And they would come in because it's inmy chart that I'm an affirmed woman,
(39:25):
and they would come in with questions,intelligent questions, and this
month I'll be doing a program for thephysicians during their grand rounds.
Wow.
Wonderful.
That's absolutely amazing.
Wonderful.
Continue to educate.
Thank you.
That is so important.
For them to meet someone, andto see you're human, you have
(39:48):
human needs, and human should nothave that much of a heart rate.
There issues there.
Yeah.
Well, fortunately I've had noproblems since, but I have to
acknowledge too, when a doctorfirst walked into the examining room
and said, "Hi, my name is Dr. So-and-So"
(40:10):
"Very pleased to meetyou, I am Dr. Sorrentino."
It changes the dynamic immediately.
Mm-hmm.
But for those who cannot, or do nothave the ability to flaunt a higher
level degree, be professional,present yourself appropriately.
(40:31):
Mm-hmm.
Be the woman or be the manyou were destined to be.
With confidence, with dignity, withpoise, you won't have a problem.
I mean, even when I wasadmitted to the floor, it was
an intermediate coronary unit.
(40:51):
The nurses would come in and go,
"Can I ask you a question?"
And they were intelligent questions.
And when they're intelligent questions,I will answer anything they ask.
You're being your congruent self, andyou're showing that, and so you don't
give people anything to question.
This is who you are, and that's wonderful.
(41:12):
That's so important to be open withpeople when you have that opportunity
to be so, and be safe doing it.
And talk with them.
It makes all the difference in the world.
That's what I found out during myfirst week of living full-time.
There are two major hospitalsystems in the area where I live.
(41:33):
The other one, I received a call askingif I would be willing to come in and do
a program for their medical residents whoare going into family practice because
they knew that there was gonna be sooneror later a time when, whether it's a
prepubescent child, an adolescent, oreven an adult, would be coming into their
(41:57):
panel with gender dysphoria, or genderincongruent presentations or issues.
So I was invited in, I did a two hourprogram for 40 medical residents,
and again, another foot in the door.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, after I had my surgery atNYUI volunteered at the medical
(42:18):
school as a practice patient forthe third year medical students,
and I had a blast doing that.
Yeah.
It was fun.
And it's educational, it's fun,and it reaffirms also who we are.
Mm-hmm.
(42:39):
And my surgeon also had surgery classesfor all the patients that were coming in.
In the next quarter.
They'd fill up an auditorium, they'dbring family members, all of that, and
I'd be on stage with two or three otherpost-op patients answering questions.
(42:59):
And that was so empowering personally,and I learned so much about what
people didn't know coming into thatsituation, even within our own community.
Well, this gets also back to whatyou're doing, Wendy, is you're becoming
a mentor to so many individuals,helping them through the process.
(43:24):
I do very much the same thing.
Mm-hmm.
Because working with a gender diverse ortransgender individual today requires an
interdisciplinary team of professionals.
Exactly.
You can have the primary care physician,the endocrinologist, the surgeon.
(43:45):
You might have an otolaryngologistto help with the voice.
You know, there are so manycritical people, the psychologist.
But the individual, the affirmedindividual who can work with the
individual and their families,one with the life experience,
(44:05):
mm-hmm.
is a cog in the wheel thatholds it all together.
I agree.
And that's been my experience doing this.
Diana, you've worked with so many people.
Can you share just a couple ofstories, anonymously, of course, about
things that you've seen change, youknow, how people have changed some
(44:26):
of the success story that you'veseen with people you've worked with?
Well, on the negative side ofthe coin, I've seen too many
adolescents that were rejectedand expelled from their household.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And the reality is, from myperspective, it has nothing to do with
(44:48):
the adolescents gender affirmationto a gender that's different from
their sex assignment at birth.
It has everything to do with theparent or parent's, plural, refusal
to accept it because of their fear ofhow it's going to impact their life.
(45:09):
And I've run into that.
A lot.
Because when the parents are willingto meet with me, and of course I give
them the background, neurobiology,physiology, variant genes, et cetera,
and then I pause and I'lllook at them and ask,
"Okay, what are your fears beyond yourconcerns for your child or adolescent?
(45:33):
What are your fears?
What are your concerns?"
What do they tell you?
It varies from my child is dying.
I said,
"No, your child is coming out of thecocoon as a beautiful monarch butterfly.
This is a natural progression."
(45:53):
The challenge parents will run intois if with the assigned male at birth,
especially if Dad is a business owner
mm-hmm.
From the day that child pops out,the life is planned and this is
gonna be my business partner.
And when that assigned male at birthbecomes female, all that is gone.
(46:16):
Well, why couldn't a femalebe the business partner?
I mean, there's part of thesocialization there too, right?
There's nothing to prevent that.
But the mindset is so different.
It is.
Exactly.
But also, the male child typicallyhas a stronger bond to the father,
and the female child has a typicallystronger bond to the mother.
(46:37):
It's been documented that once theytransition, that dynamic shifts where the
assigned male at birth who transitionsto female now gets closer to Mom.
The assigned female at birth whotransition to male now gets closer to Dad.
So it's an adjustment, but theother part of the fear is what
(46:58):
am I gonna tell my family?
What am I gonna tell myfriends in social networks?
Are they gonna reject me?
Are they gonna criticize me?
Are they gonna reportme to child services?
I mean, it's amazing how their mind canswirl with so much negative thought.
I've seen it all too.
(47:18):
And it comes, my work comes down tobuilding their strength, building their
acceptance, building their knowledge todeal with the fears that they perceive.
Mm-hmm.
And what happens in your experiencewhen they don't accept their child?
It's traumatic for the child.
(47:39):
Mm-hmm.
Or the adolescent.
And make a point here.
I always differentiate prepubescentfrom adolescent because the
prepubescent child is not eligiblefor any form of medical or surgical
intervention until the onset of puberty.
And even with the onset of puberty,it doesn't happen overnight.
(48:04):
Puberty blockers, gonadotropin releasinghormone agonists, are used to put a
pause button on the developing sexcharacteristics that would be associated
with their sex assignment at birth.
Essential for theassigned female at birth.
Cross sex, gender affirminghormones would not even begin
to be introduced until 15 or
(48:25):
16. Now, for girls,assigned female at birth, 10
to 12 is puberty, for boys, 12 to 14.
So it's a pause button and it'sreversible if it turns out that
this is not the path for them.
It's discontinued andpuberty kicks back in.
But the psychologist is involved,the endocrinologist is involved,
(48:49):
the family physician is involved.
The mentor is typically involvedat this point to help guide
everyone through the process.
If appropriate, cross-sex hormones, 15or 16, surgery, vaginoplasty for the
assigned male at birth after age 18.
(49:11):
Mm-hmm.
I have a family I'mworking with right now.
The mother is supporting theirassigned male at birth, who
wants to transition to female.
The father, they're divorced, isputting up roadblocks and barricades
every place he can to prevent it.
And the individual, enteringpuberty was panicking about all the
(49:35):
secondary sex characteristics, thedeepening of the voice, the growth
of the Adam's apple, facial hair.
So what I shared with themom and the individual,
"Listen, not being able to goon puberty blockers at age 11 or
12, is not the end of the world."
(49:57):
Age 18, puberty is still in development.
You can intervene then withmedicalization, whether it's
Aldactone as a testosterone blocker,Estradiol, if your voices deepen.
There's a relatively new processwhere under anesthesia, they can
(50:18):
go in through the mouth and shortenthe vocal cords to raise the pitch.
Electrolysis can take care offacial hair, but again, it's not
fully developed by 18, so it'll beinconvenient, but it's not a dead end.
I mean, look at the number ofindividuals like Wendy and myself
who transitioned as adults.
(50:41):
Mm-hmm.
Well, past pubertal development.
And things we had to do to putourselves together as we wanted to be.
Okay.
Now, I was very fortunate.
I had somewhat of a babyface ever since day one.
But these are concerns thatparents and the individuals have.
(51:04):
And again, like this one parent, thefather, it's more about him than it
is about their emerging adolescent.
He has no solid relationship withany of his other biological children.
One of whom has recently beendiagnosed as being bipolar.
(51:25):
And it was like,
Okay, time to reject him as well.
So, you know, this iswhat you're dealing with.
He, we agreed to meet with me back in theearly part of the year with the mother.
They've been divorced for almost 12 years.
And, I shared all what I wouldnormally do with a first meeting.
He refuses to meet with me againbecause he knows what's gonna
(51:49):
come, and nothing he wants tostand on is going to be supported.
So that's a little bit ofthe digressive history.
Well, and you talked when we spokethe other day too, and you've seen
statistics, you've studied suicide rates.
What do you see as far as suicidalideation in young people and
(52:10):
the people that you work with?
Adolescents particularly, who are notsupported by their families, have a
suicidal ideation rate as high as 70%.
70%, seven-zero.
That's horrible.
And I've often thought too, uh, oneof the times where I actually thought
(52:32):
of suicide, if I had done it, no onewould know why, because I wasn't out.
And families are not goingto make that visible.
So I bet the statisticsare even higher than 70%.
Well, as far as ideation isconcerned, no, I think it's around
that 65%, 70%, plus or minus.
(52:54):
The attempted suicide rate can beas high as 40% for that population.
The death by suicide rate is almost 20%.
Mm-hmm.
That we know of.
Yeah.
And
not always known that that was thereason for the death of suicide.
(53:14):
Mm-hmm.
Now, what's interesting, and thestatistics bear this out, are the
adolescents incongruent gender identity,who are supported by their family, their
parents, their suicidal ideation rateis lower than their cisgender peers.
Exactly.
(53:35):
Because they're happy.
They're accepted.
They're happy, they're supported.
Yep.
They're encouraged, they're loved.
Mm-hmm.
I think in one of the documents Ishared with you in advance of our
chatting today was the negative impactof adverse childhood experiences.
Mm-hmm.
And those experiences willcontinue into adolescence.
(54:00):
Kaiser Permanente worked with the CDCto do their study back in the nineties.
They were looking at agegroups up to 18 years of age.
Mm.
And the long term physiological,psychological, emotional
impact is lifelong.
Especially the physiological.
(54:22):
Stays with them, doesn't it?
Yeah.
It's so sad.
So one adverse childhoodexperience can increase depression
in an individual by 50%.
Four or more can increase it to over 200%.
Hmm.
So keep doing what you're doing.
Thank you so much for what you're doing.
(54:42):
And there are ripple effects.
I'm sure it takes a while.
It certainly does.
I'd like to ask yousome personal questions.
Go ahead.
Ask what you would like.
I might plead the fifth,but otherwise go for it.
No deflecting on this one, Dr. D. Howis life as an affirmed woman, full-time,
(55:03):
different than your expectations?
It's not.
That's the crazy part of it.
Isn't that cool?
Once I adopted my femaleidentity full-time, legally
and socially, it was like,
Why did I wait so long?
(55:24):
And how old were you at that time?
I was 35.
January of 1990.
How did you feel aboutgiving up male privilege?
Or did that even enter your thinking?
Never even entered my mind.
I never considered it a privilege.
Well, the other thing too, ismy career actually was enhanced
(55:45):
professionally following my affirmation.
Because I was no longer livingtwo lives, I was not confused,
or still somewhat depressed, oranxious about being found out.
It was like,
Why did I wait so long?
Yeah.
So what surprises you about your life?
(56:09):
Surprises me?
Yeah.
That I've been assuccessful as I have been.
You know, my new family that I'vebuilt through friends and colleagues.
Okay.
I had the opportunities you mentionedduring my introduction about doing
(56:32):
seminars and presentations at universitiesand hospitals, you know, civics groups.
I mean, it's just..
I allowed myself to be my true self.
What a gift.
Yeah.
It took a while, but I got there.
(56:55):
And so many people cannot say that.
Dr. D.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Whether they're cisgender,transgender, I wish we had more
people who could say that same thing.
Yeah.
And for me, having opportunityto be involved with such diverse
support groups just aidedsignificantly in my comfort level.
(57:17):
And coming to the realization, ofcourse, of my endocrinologist, Dr.
Mechanick,
This is who I am.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I hold the spiritualbelief that things happen the
way they're supposed to happen.
That we kind of come in with a purpose,things eventually work that way.
Is there anything in your faithor in your beliefs that are
(57:40):
like that or counter to that?
Well, nothing particularthat countered that.
By the time I was finished withgrammar school, kindergarten through
eighth grade with instructors, allthe teachers were Dominican nuns.
Okay.
Yeah.
When high school came around, my parentswanted me to go to a Catholic high school.
(58:04):
I said, no, because the localcity where I lived, the high
school was in walking distances.
Why do I need to take two or threebuses a day to get to and from school
when I can walk around the block?
And I did that route, which basically putthe religious aspect of my life, not even
(58:26):
on hold, it was like I threw it away.
So it was more a logistical decisionthan it was rejecting any sort of...
Yeah.
Well, it was a logistical.
It worked out.
So what unexpected lessonshave you had in your life?
That's a good question.
(58:47):
I mean, unexpected lessons, I could notidentify them as such because life is full
of so many lessons that are unexpected.
And whether in my current role,my current life as an affirmed
woman, or before, I mean, there'snothing that really stands out.
(59:08):
Not just one.
Huh?
Not just one.
Okay.
Well then let me ask you this.
You're visible, you're out thereall the time, you're meeting people.
Do you get any blowbacks from that?
Well, let me share this example with you.
Several years ago, I was invitedto deliver the keynote address
(59:31):
for LGBTQ History Month at HopeCollege in Holland, Michigan.
I accepted the invitation.
Well, while I was out there inpreparation for the evening, it was like,
Oh, by the way, we would like torecord this and put it on YouTube.
And my initial responseinternally was, *ahh*
(59:54):
because some people would say Iwas living a stealthy life because
I wasn't wearing it on my sleeve.
Mm-hmm.
And it's like, Do I really wanna do this?
They said, "We'll give you a bonuson your honorarium if you do this."
So I thought about it.
And said, You know, maybe it's time.
(01:00:15):
Maybe it's time for me to comeout of the closet per se, even
though I was never closeted.
So we had a discussion and I said,
"I will agree to you putting it onYouTube with the caveat if I receive
one ounce of blowback.." because themajority of my professional work, which
sustains me financially, is corporate.
(01:00:37):
The other work is morereturning to the community.
I said,
"One ounce of blowback,you pull the video."
And that was the agreement.
It was planning to run for one year only.
It ran for the full year,not a scrap of blowback.
Mm-hmm.
The, the positive feedback thecollege received from the alumni
(01:01:02):
was overwhelmingly positive and HopeCollege is a Christian university.
Mm-hmm.
So, you know, Margo, who was the organizerwho scheduled me to come out, she goes,
"Dr. D, people need to hear yourvoice. You have to be heard."
(01:01:25):
And she was the boot in thebutt that got me moving.
Mm-hmm.
That's why she is dedicated inthe acknowledgements in my book.
After that program, my phone startedringing for additional programs in
other institutions and locations.
And to this day I've had zero blowback.
Now, I did have a client, a corporateclient in the Midwest who eventually
(01:01:50):
found out that I was an affirmed woman.
And being in a redneck super redstate, um, well that was the last
time I did any work for them.
I mean, they wouldn't respondto my phone calls afterwards.
There was other work they wantedme to do, so I went, alright.
I was sort of expecting it, butit was a good gig while it lasted.
(01:02:11):
But other than that, I mean, no problems.
Personally, professionally, on thestreet in my travels, vacations.
That's wonderful.
So being a human being who'stransgender, how has that influenced
your thoughts and your feelingsabout what it's like to be human?
(01:02:35):
Well, I don't consider myself trans.
I'm a woman.
Right.
My mind has been a womansince the day I was born.
Mm-hmm.
It just took me 35 years to get herto realize who she was and make the
shift so that everything was congruent.
(01:02:57):
Mm-hmm.
I like to say it as, we'vebecome who we've always been.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Unknown quote,
My problem is not that I wasborn transgender, my problem
is I was not born a woman.
Mm-hmm.
When you really were born awoman, just, you had a different,
(01:03:18):
um, costume you were wearing.
Yes.
Different facade.
Yes.
We're close to winding up now,Dr. D, and this has been fabulous.
I'm so looking forward tohaving another or two or three.
What would you like our audience to know?
What's one last piece of wisdom thatyou can share with our audience?
It's very challenging—even today withall the information that's available—
(01:03:44):
to, with confidence, strength, anddignity, embrace your authentic self
in contrast to your sex assignmentat birth, regardless male or female,
and move forward with whoyou are destined to be.
With or without the supportof those around you.
(01:04:12):
Do your research.
Find peers, mentors, supportorganizations, and make sure
that the information you'reaccessing is from credible sources.
(01:04:32):
Dispel the myths, dispel hyperbole, dispelthe pathological assumptions, and ignore
the political, geopolitical arrogancebecause they're pursuing agendas to suit
their ideological perspective of what lifeshould be for everyone, with no desire
(01:04:59):
to learn and understand the biology,the physiology of gender diversity, its
origin, its development, and the factthat we've been around for thousands of
years does not take a lot of research.
(01:05:20):
But people are lazy and they don't.
Right.
Well, how often have you heard the phrasepeople read headlines, not articles.
Mm-hmm.
And if you read the article, you'llcome to realization at the headline,
you ask, well, What does theheadline got to do with the article?
Yeah.
It's clickbait.
You've gotta have some word in itthat grabs people's attention that
(01:05:41):
really has nothing in the article.
Exactly.
I've very much enjoyed our conversationtoday, and I find it absolutely
amazing that you actually startedin 1985, and did affirm in 1990.
(01:06:05):
In hindsight I wish I done that too, butI had the full trauma of 1971, and my
parents threatening to commit me, andthat's what just drove me back into the
closet as it were until, 2014 when Ifound out that everything had changed.
(01:06:29):
Yeah.
And once I did that and found that out,I was able to transition in six months.
I agree with you completely, this feelingof living authentically is absolutely
the best experience of my entire life.
It also physiologically improvedthe hell out of my health.
(01:06:54):
This gets back to the impact of stress.
Mm-hmm.
And the negative impact, that isthe reason why I wrote the book,
Neurobiology Physiology of IncongruentGender Identities and Sexual
Orientation— it's a biology book.
It's a graduate level biology bookon the intricacies, the complexities,
(01:07:18):
of different sexual orientationsand gender identities, but also
the impact on this body at large.
Mm-hmm.
And in my book,
Adolescent Gender AffirmingMedical and Behavioral Healthcare,
who had the privilege of having Dr.Christine Hartigan write the forward for
(01:07:41):
it, uh, because she works extensivelywith the community, primarily adolescents
mm-hmm.
is to get into the details ofhow to process the affirmation.
And there's an entire chapter, 30some odd pages, which will probably
be closer to 70 pages in the book,just on adverse childhood experiences.
(01:08:06):
Mm-hmm.
And the long term impact thatthat has on an individual.
This has been fascinatingtoday, and I love your approach.
I love that you're out there sharingwho you are, and sharing this research,
and making it accessible to people.
That's what we need todo, is keep educating.
(01:08:28):
Well, one thing I've learned overthe years, even before my formal
affirmation, because in my previousrole, I did quite a bit of training.
What I'm getting at is the more researchI've done, the more training I do.
(01:08:49):
I learn more than my students.
Mm-hmm.
That's always the wayit happens, isn't it?
So for me, that's my selfishmodem, is it builds my knowledge.
Mm-hmm.
And then ultimately my value andcredibility when I do a program.
(01:09:11):
I mean, you've had an opportunityto see some of the supplemental
chapters from my other two books.
Um, you were kind enough to purchasea copy of Transgender Families, and
that's broken down into six parts.
The first three deal with the biology, thephysiology, the emotional, the psychology
for parents, the foundational aspect ofthe history of gender diverse transgender,
(01:09:36):
kinda like building the foundation.
The latter three parts, uh, partfour, is dealing with the prepubescent
child and it's the shortest chapter.
In the book because there's reallynothing to talk about unless the
prepubescent child has behavioral issues.
Mm-hmm.
Then you bring 'em to achild's psychologist who's
experienced in early development.
(01:09:59):
The largest chapter is the fifth part.
I think it's an 11 chapters thereon adolescent emergence, and then
a condensed chapter for the adults.
But what makes it really valuabletoo are the appendices, recommended
reading, website hot links,organizations, supports, definitions,
(01:10:25):
to support the parents and families.
There is so much there.
I just got it the other day, so I'veonly just skimmed through it, but
it's so comprehensive, Dr. D, andthank you for putting that out there.
I hope more people will go looking forthat and we will put that link below.
It's available on Amazon, Barnes andNoble, even the local bookstores, if
(01:10:46):
they do not have it, can get it for them.
Mm-hmm.
Just to put it in perspective tothree different books, transgender
families came in at 110,000 words.
Publishers do not wannaknow about how many pages.
They wanna know how many words.
So that book was 110,000 words.
It's over 300 pages.
(01:11:07):
365.
Yeah.
The second book, Neurobiology,Physiology, came in at 158,000 words.
The third book came in at 260,000 words.
Oh goodness.
That's why you say it's more ofa biology textbook, isn't it?
Well there, the second book is a biologytextbook, the third book, Adolescent
(01:11:33):
Gender Affirming Medical Behavioral, isa graduate level book for those medical
and behavioral healthcare professionals.
But it's, while it has a lot of technicaljargon, it's all in the definitions.
And there are links.
So all of the resources that I use, thecitations are listed, you know, just
(01:11:56):
like there's citations in TransgenderFamily, but not as extensive.
Well, we will put the link
in the show notes and make sureeverybody can find those that
I can't wait to get into these.
It, you know, it's gonna help me withthe research that I've been doing and
I have a stack of books like crazy.
But, uh, yeah, it's gonna help.
Thank you very much.
What has been so gratifying is withall the different programs that I've
(01:12:19):
been invited to speak to, you know,I bring copies of the books and
they sell, but more importantly, thenumber of mothers who will approach
me at the end of the program to say,
"I purchased your book. Ohmy God, it was so helpful."
Mm-hmm.
It just warms my heart.
(01:12:41):
Well, that's why I wrote it.
You know, you're making a difference.
Yeah.
Big difference.
Do you want to share outyour contact information?
Okay.
You can find me on LinkedInunder Dr. Diana Sorrentino.
I have a very large profile there,and I periodically will post
information, podcast release, othertidbits of information, periodically.
(01:13:07):
My website is
paradoxesofgender.com.
If you go to Google and just put in Dr.Diana Sorrentino PhD, this all comes up.
Right.
I mean, it's amazing how many pageswhen you are in Google, when you just
put my name into the search string.
(01:13:29):
We're certainly glad that youshared your time with us, and shared
your talent with us, and we'relooking forward to the next one.
Well, I shared when we opened theprogram, it's truly a privilege and an
honor for me to spend some quality timewith the two of you, the important work
that you're doing, allowing me to sharemy experiences in this segment, in the
(01:13:50):
future segments, which again, I lookforward to participating, getting into
the knowledge of how we became who we are.
Because once you understand theorigin, then putting the pieces
together becomes so much easier.
(01:14:13):
That was the case for me.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that, it sounds to me like that ledto the self-acceptance and the joy that
you're feeling in your life once thatyou were able to understand, this wasn't
just something that was wrong with you.
And I have never, for amoment regretted the move.
(01:14:36):
I just regret that it took me so long.
But we're dealing with timeframewhere there was no internet.
This was not somethingthat was readily available.
Had I not met Dr. Mechanickafter being involved with the
different support groups, it mayhave been deferred even longer.
(01:14:58):
Mm-hmm.
That was, that was one of the thingsthat I always bring up is that
one of the big differences betweentoday and anything in the last
century, there was no information.
It was very difficult to find anything.
And we didn't walk around withcomputers in our pockets called cell
(01:15:22):
phones attached to the internet.
That didn't exist.
As a 10-year-old, I was so easyto gaslight, Oh, you're the only
one who ever feels like this.
What was I gonna say?
Well, how else can a parent or someoneelse who does not understand, force
(01:15:44):
you into repression and suppressionby telling you that you are the only
nutcase in the world that feels this way?
Yep.
And you've gotta hide this big secret.
I've worked with individuals from themid twenties, I think the oldest person
I worked with was 65, like yourself,who transitioned that late in life.
And for them, it was just a matterof putting a period at the end of
(01:16:07):
the sentence and completing a journeythat was just deferred too long.
Mm-hmm.
That's a wonderful way of saying that.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for this, and let'sthank our audience today for joining us
and spending us this time with us todayon Demystifying the Transgender Journey.
We had a great conversation with Dr.Diana Sorrentino today, and we will
(01:16:30):
have more conversations in the future.
If you haven't seen our previous podcastsor YouTube videos, be sure to find
those under thetransgenderjourney.com.
I've been your host today, Lynn Murphy,and your other host is Wendy Cole.
We will see you next time.
Be sure to like, share, subscribe,make sure that you've got notification
that we're on the air and that you canfind our next and previous podcast.
(01:16:54):
And remember the motto of WomenWho Push the Limits, which I
think definitely applies to Dr. D—
Find your voice, speak yourtruth, and change the world.
And Dr. D, you're doing that.
You're changing the world for people.
So thank you.
So until next time, remember tostay curious, and stay kind, and
we will see you on the next one.
(01:17:15):
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
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