October 3, 2025 • 48 mins
Debunking Transgender Myths with Dr. Diana Sorrentino | Demystifying the Transgender Journey
In this episode of Demystifying the Transgender Journey, hosts Lynn Murphy and Wendy Cole welcome back Dr. Diana Sorrentino, an expert with over 35 years of experience in gender affirming care. Dr. Sorrentino debunks common myths about transgender identities, and discusses the historical and global perspectives of gender diversity. The conversation covers a range of topics including the safety of puberty blockers, the reality of prepubescent transgender identities, and the harmful effects of anti-transgender legislation. This educational episode aims to dispel misinformation and provide a scientific understanding of transgender issues. Stay tuned for insightful discussions and valuable information.
Dr. Sorrentino is a member of:
- World Professional Association for Transgender Health – WPATH
- Gay Lesbian Medical Association – GLMA
- Outcare – LGBTQ+ Healthcare
Author of Transgender Families: Helping Parents and Families Understand Gender Diversity and Being Transgender Because No One Transitions Alone.
https://www.amazon.com/Transgender-Families-Dr-Diana-Sorrentino/dp/B0DLQHVX8Y
Host of Paradoxes of Gender Podcasts – academically focused on CE requirements for medical and behavioral healthcare professionals working with gender diverse and transgender individuals, families, and allies.
https://paradoxesofgender.com/
paradoxesofgender@earthlink.net
LinkedIn: Dr. Diana Sorrentino, Ph.D.
Podcast: https://paradoxesofgender.com/podcasts-1
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
"Parents of gender diverse andtransgender prepubescent children
(00:03):
and adolescents did something wrong."
Well, how many times a mom will ask me
What did I do wrong when I was pregnant?
Nothing.
I hear that all the time.
"Someone taught my child to begender diverse or transgender."
It's probably one of the mostridiculous statements anyone could make.
It's all those woke teacherswho are teaching children
(00:26):
to be a different gender.
I love this, I heard thisfrom a teacher I know.
She said,
If I had that much influenceover my students, they'd
all be earning straight A's.
Exactly.
It's ridiculous.
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
(00:49):
Well, welcome to Demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and the professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
(01:13):
Thank you for joining us today foranother episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey, brought toyou by Women Who Push the Limits.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy.
I am an author and a speaker, and nowjust such an exciting job being the
podcast host and our co-host is WendyCole, who transitioned at the age of 67.
She is an amazing mentor, working withpeople who are transitioning and also who
(01:38):
are going through life changes because.
We're all going through life changesand she's been through one of the
most significant ones that there is.
Our amazing guest todayis a returning guest.
We can't get enough ofDr. Diana Sorrentino.
The first episode that she did was moreabout her life as an affirmed woman, and
(01:59):
then the second episode she did, we weretalking about the biology, and she's
a PhD in psychology and in sociology.
I'll have her give you her credentials ina minute, but today we wanted to talk to
Dr. Sorrentino about myths of transgender.
So, Dr. Sorrentino, introduce yourself.
Give us some of your credentials.
You've got such an amazing resumeand we know you're the expert.
(02:22):
Well, thank you, Lynn.
And Wendy as well.
As you indicated, I have doctoraldegrees in sociology and psychology.
I'm an affirmed woman.
My life's evolution tookplace in January of 1990,
just a little over 35 years ago.
I've been researching and studyingthe neurobiology and physiology of
(02:46):
gender diversity and transgenderidentities for over 40 years.
And for over 35 years, I've been workingwith the medical and behavioral healthcare
professionals, providing these individualswith gender affirming care, as well
as supporting them, opportunities foreducational programs to expand their
knowledge in this very important area.
(03:08):
And during that 35 yearperiod, I've also worked with
individuals of a variety of ages.
Working into and through theirgender affirmations and most
importantly, their families, theirparents, to help them understand
the root causes of an incongruentidentity, which originate in utero.
I'm recognized as a subjectmatter expert nationally.
(03:32):
My podcasts have subscribers in 82countries, you'll hear more about
that at the end of this program.
So it's my honor and privilege tojoin you, Lynn, and Wendy, to share my
knowledge, my experience, my background,and to, I like to say dispel the myths,
the hype, the hyperbole, the pathologicalassumptions, and the geopolitical
(03:56):
arrogance that we're dealing with today.
And we are dealing with so much of that.
And heavy on the political arrogance.
So we're going to dispel some of thosemyths today, and you are definitely
the expert, the person to do that withyour background, your education, your
personal story, and all of your research.
So,
What I'm going to be working throughis I'll literally be reading excerpts
(04:19):
from chapter two of my third book,Adolescent Gender Affirming Medical
and Behavioral Healthcare, andwe'll start with the first myth.
Gender diversity, having atransgender identity, gender fluid
expression, or non-binary genderidentity is a new phenomena.
It has never happened before.
But the reality is, there'snothing new about gender diversity.
(04:43):
Gender diverse, transgender genderfluid, and non-binary individuals
have existed within cultures andsocieties for thousands of years.
In chapter one of my book, I covergender diversity throughout history.
And if you look around thePacific Rim, they do not conflate
sex and gender the way we do.
Mm-hmm.
But the gender binary, heteronormativeidentities, heterosexualism, is all
(05:11):
originated out of Western Europe.
Underscores a means of dominanceand control over individuals.
As a cisgender woman, I talk to peoplewho are cisgender and have no idea
about what we're talking about here.
And a lot of times I'll hear, oh,
There's so many more peoplecoming out of the woodwork
now who were born transgender.
(05:32):
And they don't understand that this, likeyou're saying, has been something that's
the natural part of the human experience.
One of the things thatI've heard people say is,
Well, with all the, the drugs thatare now in our water system, and in
our food, that's changing the genesor changing the hormones in the bodies
and creating all these peoplewho are whatever term they want
(05:57):
to use, transgender, genderdivergent, that type of thing.
Can you talk about that myth?
Absolutely false.
Right.
An incongruent genderidentity commences in utero.
Okay?
We discussed this at length inour previous episode where you
(06:17):
privileged me to be a guest,
and it's nothing new.
It's just that as more informationbecomes available individuals begin
to recognize and accept the fact,
that their gender identity is notcongruent with the sex assigned at birth.
(06:41):
Mm-hmm.
It's not that we're coming outof the woodwork, it's just that
we're coming out of the closet.
Go back 30, 40 years ago, 50 yearsago, there was very little information
available to the general public.
So like many of the adults that I workwith, and Wendy, you'd fall into this
(07:01):
category, repressed and suppressedtheir feelings, their identity,
to the point of physiological andemotional and psychological harm.
Exactly.
Because they didn't understand,they did not have the support,
they could not access resources.
It's very different today.
(07:22):
People are not willing to be moldedinto an identity which does not
fit who they are as an individual.
You know, all of this nonsense aboutdrugs and chemicals in the water is to
put it bluntly, a bullshit excuse forsomething they do not understand and they
(07:44):
really don't want to be bothered with.
Alright, the second myth:
Gender affirming medicalcare is unsafe and dangerous.
Gender affirming care, previouslyreferred to as transition-related care
has been determined to be medicallynecessary, age appropriate, in addition
to delivery of important lifesavinghealthcare for gender diverse and
(08:07):
transgender individuals of all ages.
Mm-hmm.
And as we discussed in ourprevious program, puberty blockers,
Oh my God, they're unsafe.
Puberty blockers have been used sincethe '60s for precocious puberty.
It's nothing new.
Another good myth:
(08:28):
Anti-transgender legislationis to protect children.
Don't you love that one?
When legislation attempts to regulatewho is permitted to have access to gender
affirming care, or any type of behavioral,medical, healthcare, politicians are
inserting unfounded, partisan ideologiesbased upon myths, hyperbole, pathological
(08:51):
assumptions into private conversations.
Their attempt is to enshrinediscrimination into law.
With a total disregard for theestablished science, medicine,
clinical and scientific evidence,supporting gender affirming care.
And then what happens when healthcareis removed from the person who was
born transgender having access to that?
(09:16):
It increases their depression,emotional distress, gender dysphoria,
the potential for suicidal ideation,not to mention death by suicide.
The trauma inflicted is exponential.
And lifelong.
Yes.
And that's what these politicians, peoplewho don't know the science, or don't want
(09:38):
to admit the science, that's what theyseem to want to inflict on the community.
And I think that's absolutely cruel.
Well, look what they did to the gay andlesbians in the '50s, '60s, and '70s.
Yeah.
So how do we get past that?
Well, questions I've asked politicians is,
What are you afraid of?
(09:59):
Mm-hmm.
What are you afraid of?
They're afraid theirconstituents won't vote for them.
Personal opinion, I thinkthat's what they're afraid of.
Well, they use hot button issues thatthey create to stir up their voting base.
Mm-hmm.
So that they can maintainpower and stay in office.
And so much of whatwe're dealing with today.
(10:22):
is out of of Project 2025, you havethe Heritage Foundation, which is an
ultra right wing group, which is drivingthese philosophies and ideologies
that have no basis in science or fact.
Mm-hmm.
All for control.
All right.
(10:42):
Myth:
Being gender diverse or transgenderis a psychiatric or psychological
pathology and mental illness.
Being gender diverse or transgenderis not psychological pathology or
mental illness, as determined throughscientific research and clinical
studies as reported by the AmericanPsychiatric Association, the American
Psychological Association, the AmericanAcademy of Pediatrics, the American
(11:06):
College of Osteopathic Physicians, theAmerican Academy of Child and Adolescent
Psychiatry, just to name a few, alright?
Many individuals who havetransitioned regret their decision:
Longitudinal studies, andthe Dutch have been tracking
individuals for over 30 years, thedetransition rate is less than 1%.
(11:32):
The benefits brought to the individualwho is allowed to transition with an
interdisciplinary team are palpable.
Wendy's proof of that.
I'm proof of that.
People I work with.
Denying care is tantamount to
child abuse.
(11:54):
Well, and Wendy and I haveheard a physician speak about
the percentage of regret thatpeople have with other surgeries.
That cisgender people have with breastaugmentation, with rhinoplasty, with
tummy tucks, with different types ofsurgeries, that those percentages are
much, much higher than the percent,
what did you say?
(12:15):
1%? Less than 1%?
Less than 1%.
Now, here's one of my favorite ones:
Transgender surgery is performedon prepubescent children.
Prepubescent children are ineligible forany type of gender affirming intervention.
But I like to also ask, where was theiranger and frustration when intersex
(12:42):
children were born, whether they wereXX or XY, and by age two or three
were surgically altered to appear morefemale because as they would say, it's
easier to dig a hole than build a pole.
Exactly.
Nobody said anything about that, did they?
No!
And there were hospitals herein Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
(13:04):
that would do it routinely.
I had a friend who had that done.
Yeah.
And then it's traumatizedthe individual for life.
Mm-hmm.
Puberty blockers, gonadotropin releasinghormone agonists, are harmful and cause
permanent, irreversible side effects.
They've been used since the'60s for precocious puberty.
It's a pause button.
(13:26):
They're reversible.
Before an individual is eligible forpuberty blockers, physical examination,
metabolic profile, complete blood profilecalled CBC, bone mineralization studies,
to make sure a person is healthy enoughfor the application of puberty blockers.
(13:47):
Well, and one thing that Wendy and I havetalked about in a different episode too,
that people don't understandwhat transition means, that
there are stages of transition.
You can transition socially,hormones, medical intervention,
surgeries, but it's a spectrum.
Very much so.
There are individuals whowill transition socially in
(14:08):
adolescence or young adulthood,
be prescribed through theirinterdisciplinary team, cross
sex, gender affirming hormones,whichever direction they want to go.
They're very happy withoutany subsequent surgeries.
Mm-hmm.
Not uncommon.
Mm-hmm.
And for many individuals, they goyears before they can afford to have
(14:32):
the surgeries performed, but theywork through their social affirmation.
Also there's such a fascinationwith people wanting to know what
somebody's genitals are like.
And I don't think it's anybody's business.
Exactly.
I've met individuals also who I've talkedwith about this, who, as transgender
(14:52):
women, choose not to have the surgery.
They just have no need forit, feel no need for it.
And in fact, I've been toldthat's their favorite sex organ.
There are no rules for transition.
Another myth:
Prepubescent, children areadministered cross-sex hormones.
(15:15):
False.
Prepubescence, no hormones, no medicalintervention, no surgical information,
period until the onset of puberty,and at that point, only introduction
would be puberty blockers, gonadotropinreleasing hormone agonists, cross
sex, gender affirming hormones wouldnot be introduced to age 15 or 16.
(15:38):
That's fact.
Mm-hmm.
Here's another good one.
Claiming to be gender diverse ortransgender is a fad, a personal choice,
a phase caused by peer pressure or a formof rebellion against parents and families.
Pure nonsense.
What more can I say?
It's pure nonsense.
It doesn't deserve any more attention.
(16:00):
Yeah.
Pre-pubescent children cannotbe gender incongruent, gender
diverse, or transgender.
It only happens at puberty.
Another absolutely false.
Science, research, and clinical studiesclearly supports the fact that gender
incongruent gender identities inprepubescent children will develop.
During early childhood development,gender incongruence has been proven
(16:22):
to originate during fetal developmentwith prepubescent children between
the age of three and five, identifyingthemself as a different gender.
Fact.
And you get the medical ability, thetechniques and medical research, the
tools, to determine these things now.
Most definitely.
(16:43):
Years ago, maybe not so much,but now it's all available.
Another myth:
All gender diverse and transgenderindividuals want hormone therapy.
Some do, some don't.
It depends on where their goal is.
What is their evolutionarystatus going to be?
(17:04):
All gender diverse and transgenderindividuals want surgical modifications.
Another falsehood.
Many go through their entire lifemaintaining their primary sex
characteristics, their phenotype.
I read an article about a transgendermale who never had the surgery for
(17:26):
the removal of the uterus and ovaries.
How comfortable he would feelwith a full beard sitting in the
waiting room at the gynecologist'soffice, waiting for his appointment.
For the gynecological exam.
Mm-hmm.
And a pap smear.
Because he decided tomaintain those organs.
(17:49):
There are no rules.
There's no rules.
Gender diverse and transgenderindividuals hate their body.
Only if they're forced into the mold thatis incongruent with their gender identity.
Exactly.
The parents of gender diverse andtransgender prepubescent children
(18:11):
and adolescents did something wrong.
Well, how many times a mom will ask me
What did I do wrong when I was pregnant?
Nothing.
I hear that all the time.
Okay.
Someone taught my child to begender diverse or transgender.
It's probably one of the mostridiculous statements anyone could make.
(18:31):
It's all those woke teachers who arekeeping children to be a different gender.
I love this.
I heard this from a teacher.
I know.
She said if I had that muchinfluence over my students, they'd
all be earning straight A's.
Exactly.
The parents that scream that out atschool board meetings, I've seen that.
Oh yeah.
When I lived in Pennsylvaniathat I saw that in Bucks County.
(18:55):
It's ridiculous.
Biological sex and genderare the same thing.
We've covered that.
They are as different as night and day.
Your genitals do notdetermine your gender.
Gender is based on your mentalidentity, it's who you are.
(19:17):
Mm-hmm.
And whether you're cis, trans male, ortrans female, it's not going to change.
You cannot take a cisgender individual,assigned male or female at birth, and
convince them to be a different gender.
It doesn't work.
It's been tried.
It does not work.
And for the assigned female ormale at birth, that is identifying
(19:41):
as an alternative gender,
it's not going to change, and you're notgoing to convince them of it otherwise.
Well, if they believe all that, thenwhy don't the cisgender teachers
in school influence the transgenderchildren and make them cisgender?
That makes much sense of sayingthat someone who's transgender
is going to influence...
(20:01):
ludicrous.
Yeah.
Knowing that someone's genderdiverse or transgender means you
know their sexual orientation.
No, I know many affirmed women who areheterosexual and have relations with men.
And like myself, I identify as lesbian.
My relationship is with women.
(20:23):
And there are those that are bisexual,pansexual, who bat on both teams.
Mm-hmm.
Nothing carved in stone here.
Same with cisgender people.
I knew a psychologist early in mytransition who, when I said a T can be
(20:43):
an L, a G, or a B, or hetero, it took himtwo weeks to wrap his mind around that.
And he is a professional psychologist.
Listen, and this is important.
You can go to Psychology Today and lookup a psychologist, and you'll see them say
(21:06):
transgender care, gender affirming care.
They're checking a box.
There's nothing to assure the personlooking at that profile that the
individual has actually been trained.
Right.
The damage these psychologists aredoing, because they do not know
what they're doing, is incredible.
(21:30):
I receive phone calls frompsychologists with questions,
and I help them because I'm
mm-hmm.
professional.
And.
One was so off the wall, I asked, I said,
why are you working with thecommunity when you don't know
what the hell you're doing?
Exactly.
Because they want cash flow.
(21:51):
Here's my commentary onchapter two of my third book,
"The unrelenting expression of myths,hyperbole, pathological assumptions,
and geopolitical arrogance,
the outright distortion and dismissal ofscientific research and medical facts,
along with the intentional continuationof fabricated, misinformation and
(22:13):
disinformation being disseminatedby the mainstream media politicians,
ultraconservative groups, and religiouszealots, which have no basis in science,
medicine, or psychology, results in adeliberate falsification of the legitimate
neurobiological and physiologicaldevelopment of gender variant, gender
diverse, and transgender identities.
(22:34):
Intentional proliferation of thisfalsification is direct cause for
the increased levels of suicidalideation recorded to be as high as
70%, Non-suicidal self-injury andattempted suicide rates pushing as
high as 40% within gender diverse andtransgender adolescent populations."
They are killing people.
(22:57):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And they're passing these lawssaying they're protecting people
like the bathroom laws, we'reprotecting women and girls by
passing the ridiculous bathroom law.
Well, let me ask you thisquestion about a bathroom law.
Is there a force field to preventa cisgender male from going in?
No.
And they're the ones who are doingdamage if there's damage being done.
(23:20):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, look at you and Wendyand the way the laws are written,
you would be required in some ofthese states and some of these
buildings to use the men's restroom.
Does that make any sense?
None whatsoever.
And I'll be damned if I would.
No, and you,
I never have.
(23:41):
I think you both would be at riskwalking into a men's bathroom.
Way more so.
Yeah.
So how are they protectingwomen and girls?
It's...
It's all about controlleddominance and influence.
And maintaining the patriarchalsociety of heteronormative dominance.
Yeah.
(24:01):
All originate out of Western Europe.
Absolutely.
What's interesting is when Europeansettlers came to the North American
continent in the 16th, 17th century,they encountered indigenous tribes
that surprised them for two reasons.
One, they spoke English.
Second, that then they had genderfluid and crossgender individuals who
(24:24):
were considered shamans, religiousleaders, and very important individuals
within their tribes and communities.
You look at the 540 federallyrecognized indigenous tribes in
North America, that's still the norm.
Even the 200 unregisteredand unrecognized tribes.
(24:46):
And if you look globally, matter of fact,let me bring up another document here.
Exploring Gender DiversityThroughout History.
I already covered the 16th and17th century European settlers.
In the early 1900's, it was not uncommonfor women to present themselves as men
(25:08):
to gain access to employment, educationalopportunities, and many of them never
considered themselves transgender,
it was just a means toan end for their lives.
So would they beconsidered cross-dressers?
Possibly.
All right.
You have the berdache— these individualsreceived social sanction from their
(25:32):
respective societies to assume agender role, which was opposite to
that which they were assigned at birth.
The hijra— alternative gender rolewithin the Indian subcontinent, as
well as in Pakistan, Bangladesh, andmany other South Asian countries.
The hijra have existed andlived for thousands of years
(25:52):
as accepted members of society.
Third gender individuals who assignedmale at birth, but live their lives
as women or non-binary individuals.
The Bugis of Indonesiarecognize five different genders
within their society, right?
(26:13):
The Navajo nation, I alreadytouched on that with the difference
in the gender fluid roles.
This one I love, thesworn virgins of Albania.
These are women who will swear anallegiance to the village elders and
then become eligible to live as aman, to own property, to take jobs,
(26:38):
and live in society in a male role.
They're also allowed to do so if theirhead of household husband or father
dies, then a woman can assume the roleof the male and be accepted by society.
Well then are they celibate?
And they remain celibate.
(26:59):
The Fa'afafine of Samoa.
Guevedoces of DominicanRepublic, just to name a few.
The Ladyboys of Thailand.
Mm-hmm.
And that's just a sampling of it.
And Judaism also, atleast used to recognize.
Right.
Well, in Judaism they have a ceremonycalled mikvah, where an individual
(27:23):
who's going to be transitioning maleto female goes through a baptism prior
to starting gender affirming hormones.
And the same thing if they'regoing the other way, called mikvah.
And that's practiced today.
It's still practiced.
Okay.
Yes.
Not just throughout the Jewish faithor is there a sect that practices that?
(27:49):
Uh, from my understanding, it'sthroughout the Jewish faith, but I'm
sure there are sects where it's not.
Interesting.
But the point we're driving home hereis this is not a unique phenomenon.
This is not a 20th or21st century phenomenon.
This is not a medical pathology,is not a psychological pathology.
(28:10):
It's been part of history and culturesfor thousands, thousands of years.
It's not changeable.
Yeah, it's not.
So how do we get people to reexaminetheir assumptions about this?
Well, how do you getsomeone to be open-minded?
Okay.
They have to express a willingnessto listen, and learn, and accept
(28:38):
that which may be very uncomfortable.
And I've been very fortunate.
I've done so many programs for churches,for civics groups, for the League of
Women Voters, and the list goes on.
I've never had a problem
with anyone in attendance.
(28:59):
My books sell like hotcakeswhen I bring them to these
events, and I constantly hear,
We had no idea.
We had no idea.
And those events usually lead meto other speaking engagements that
people need to hear this messageand I agree, but they have to be
willing to sit down, open their minda little bit, and listen to the facts.
(29:28):
I'm very fortunate that I canbring tremendous credibility to my
presentation because of my credentials.
Mm-hmm.
Because of my history, and thefact that I'm an affirmed woman.
It's a very powerful, dynamiccombination, and when I stand there
and share my history, the neurobiology,the physiology, the prenatal
(29:53):
development, what we have learned
from neuroimaging, functional magneticresonance imaging, diffusion based
magnetic resonance tomography, and thelist goes on, to show the differences in
the brains where transgender women havebrains that are virtually similar to
(30:15):
cisgender, and transgender men have brainsthat are very similar to cisgender males.
I've devoted entire chapters ofmy books to the research that
has been pursued in these areas.
There's science behind it, and whenindividuals come to these programs,
(30:37):
like the most recent one I did atthe church where 60 people sat in
for 90 minutes, they came out ofcuriosity and a desire to learn.
Probably more out ofcuriosity, and ended up,
Oh my God, I didn'trealize I learned so much.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and that's what Wendy and I aredoing, and I know that's what you're
(30:57):
doing is we figure we're planting seeds.
Some people are more open, they're goingto take the information and run with it.
Some are not going to, youknow, they're going to try
and keep this information out.
But we continue to plant seeds,
we continue to share the information, andinterview amazing people like you, so that
maybe they'll hear things two or threetimes and it will actually get in there
(31:19):
and change something about their attitude.
I don't like what tookplace in the '60s and '70s.
The blowback will take place from withinthe community, just like it did with
the gay and the lesbian community.
You reach a point where enough isenough and people are getting fed up.
There is a US Congressman who hasan office not far from where I live,
(31:44):
and whenever he is in his office,there are several hundred people
outside on the sidewalks protesting.
Mm-hmm.
And this is not just herein Eastern Pennsylvania.
People are getting fed up withwhat's going on in Washington,
and how people are being treated.
(32:06):
And it goes well beyond our community.
But as I always like to ask,
What are you afraid of?
What harm are we doing?
Only wanting to liveour lives as our truth.
That's it.
It doesn't fit their ideology,it doesn't fit their game plan,
(32:28):
and desire for patriarchal,controlled dominance and influence.
That's my paid political announcement.
Oh, do we have to pay you for that?
Oh,
Well, you purchased my book.
That's fine.
It did.
And it's fascinating, butyou know, that's the reality.
(32:50):
And I, I hope that what you'resaying is true, I think that's
always happened is that there's thependulum swinging too far to one side.
And this is where I'll be a littlecritical of our own community,
you know, when I transitioned in1990, I adopted the female binary.
I moved on with my life professionally.
I did not wear it on my sleeve.
(33:12):
I didn't wave the flag.
I didn't put myself in people'sfaces that I'm transgender.
I just got on with my life.
And the majority of individualstransitioning today want to
do exactly the same thing.
But then you have a cohort, whichthey want to wear it on their sleeve.
They want the world to know they'retransgender, they want to wave
(33:35):
the flag, and that's fine, butsociety is not quite ready for that.
Mm-hmm.
And they develop a pushback.
Mm-hmm.
I was recently interviewed andI had, I was in a conversation
with two millennials.
(33:56):
And I was talking about blendinginto everyday life, and that's one
of the things I coach people to do.
Um, they said
That's all very well andgood, but we choose not to.
We want to break theheteronormative society.
That's what we're doing.
Well, they'll be successful probablyanother 20 to 50 years, but, but what
(34:19):
happens when you get in somebody's face?
It doesn't go well.
You get pushback.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
What I found when I firsttransitioned is that
people have no framework whatsoeverfor comprehension of what this is.
So I gave up immediately tryingto help people understand it.
(34:42):
Give them enough informationand a perspective that they can
possibly move toward or change theirperspectives in some way, so that
they begin to be more accepting of it.
That's all I hope for.
I feel the community should be doingbetter at, it's not often, but I
(35:04):
once in a while, be misgendered.
I ignored it, I let it fly by.
Mm-hmm.
Because if you respond to it, all youdo is draw unnecessary, unwarranted,
and dangerous interest in yourself.
When you do something like that.
(35:24):
Like I said, it's not often I'mmisgendered, but it happens.
Sir oh— oh, sorry, ma'am.
I got a decent sized rack.
So you know, once theymoved on it was like,
Oh, I'm sorry.
You ignore it.
Don't call unnecessaryattention to yourself.
Exactly.
And it could happen withcisgender people too.
(35:45):
Absolutely.
You know, people who look androgynous.
I remember when I was doing somecustomer service training in casinos
and the trainer who was training us wastalking to us about using people's names
not ma'am and sir. And the reason hesaid is because you might be wrong.
Right?
(36:05):
Exactly.
And that had nothing todo with the transgender.
It was just about people'sphysical appearance.
And if you make a mistake andyou're corrected, you apologize,
try not to do it again.
But
why bring that much attention to yourself?
(36:26):
Ignore it.
I mean, 35 plus years, I've had no issues.
Zero.
I mean, I'm on a corporateengagement with a client down in
Bensalem, Pennsylvania right now.
I was interviewed for the job,hired, engaged for the position.
(36:47):
I'm interacting with their entire staff,
no issues.
Just the way I share with theseindividuals in our community is,
Present yourself as you want tobe presented, professionally.
Treat people with respect,in the professional world, do
(37:09):
your job, do what's expected,
after a while, nobody's gonna give a damn.
Mm-hmm.
So do you think some of these peoplewho are pushing this, you know, outside
the heteronormative, are they helpingto move things in that direction?
Or do you think they'resetting things back overall?
Right now, I think they'redoing more harm than good.
(37:30):
Right now.
Okay.
It's not helpful.
Okay.
You know, society at large needs time
to digest what's taking place, come toa realization of the fact that this is
real, it is normal, it's not a pathology.
(37:54):
But whenever anyone gets insomebody else's face, they
automatically go in defensive mode.
And especially today in the social andpolitical arenas, once you get into their
face, that just reinforces everythingthey're hearing from the right wing media.
(38:15):
Yeah.
Some people equate getting inyour face with pride parades or,
you know, Transgender Day of...
Remembrance.
Yeah.
Those types of things.
I have no problem withTransgender Day of Remembrance.
Right.
I have no problem with the Pride parade.
(38:37):
Because pride is more than justgender diversity or transgender.
I have no issues with those.
A lot of my gay friends used to evensay they don't need a Pride parade,
they're proud every day.
Right.
Today I do see tremendous valuein the pride parades, and they're
going on around the world, andtheir attendance is phenomenal.
(39:00):
We're talking hundreds of thousandsof people, you know, whether it's the
politicians, or the general population,
you know, this is not a closeted issue.
This is not something that is uniqueor abnormal, it's part of society.
(39:23):
When I was considering transitioningin the early '70s, there
was no question, I'm binary.
And I was going to livemy life as a woman.
That was it.
And
That's what I did.
Uh,
in my transition in 1990, I adoptedthe female binary and I got on with
(39:44):
my life, my profession, and my work.
Right?
That was the norm backin the last century.
When we started moving into the seconddecade of this century, things changed
a bit medically, medical supportwas available, all the therapeutic
(40:04):
support was available, everything inthat world became more well known.
And people within our community saw that,
That encouraged a lot more peopleto come out and start going
forward with their transition.
And then from my observations, therewas the 2020 pandemic, and that's
(40:29):
when a lot of people had private time.
And they could think andreally start to work on, well,
What's going on with me andmy life during this pandemic?
And they could actually stillgo to work on Zoom male from
here up, and enjoy their day.
(40:49):
Most definitely.
And after the pandemic, therewas a wave of people coming out,
and definitely society was notready for that, in my opinion.
I'm going to bring up Harry Benjamin,the book, Wondrous Transformations.
I strongly recommend you read it.
It's fascinating how he ended upalmost by default, becoming the
(41:18):
father of transgender medicine.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Hardigan, who's gonna be my guest onFriday for recording a podcast session,
one of her clients called her and asked,
Do you know who Harry Benjamin is?
And she says,
Of course I do.
(41:38):
She goes,
Good.
You're the expert.
You're the one I wanna see.
Because this person knew that if thetherapist knew who Harry Benjamin
was, the chances were excellent.
They knew what they were talking about.
Right.
Yeah.
The episode on Friday, we're gonna betalking about: What is gender affirming
care, how to choose the right therapist.
I was at a social networking event, I meta family physician, and gave him my card.
(42:05):
He goes,
Oh, I provide gender affirming care.
Okay.
Are you a member of WPATH?
He goes, what's WPATH?
That's all you needed to know.
Right?
I looked him square in the eye, using avery colorful metaphor, which I will not
use here, told him that he didn't knowwhat the bleep he was doing and he was
(42:29):
possibly gonna do more harm than good.
Was the last I heard of him.
I asked my therapist fairly earlyon in my relationship with her,
I was not at all concerned withseeing a statement that you had
certification in gender affirmingcare, you had a certificate for that.
(42:50):
And what she informed me was it's like,
Yeah, I could have that certificate,but it doesn't mean anything.
I go and sit in the classroom forsome X number of hours, pay anywhere
between three and $6,000 for theprivilege of doing that, and I get
a certificate, but that doesn't doanything for my overall knowledge of it.
(43:11):
That's what she told me.
Would you agree with that or?
Oh, totally.
Okay.
Look at my years of research and study.
I know.
I'm still learning
40 years.
But there are so many people, even inour community that I have dealt with,
talked with, or know, oh, I'll onlysee someone with that certificate.
(43:35):
A piece of paper.
Exactly.
Even my doctoral degrees,it's sheep skin on the wall.
It's your years of experienceand your research that does it.
Exactly.
And your lived experience.
Mm-hmm.
Education, whether it's undergraduate,graduate, doctoral, or continuing
ed provides you a foundationupon which to build and learn.
(44:00):
Right.
Okay.
Well, and thank you for helpingus learn today about myths around
gender, and also the fascinatinginformation about the history of
gender expression around the globe.
It is absolutely fascinating,to put it mildly.
It is and and you'vedelved into it extensively.
(44:23):
So let's share with our audiencetoday how they can reach you,
and your books, and your podcast.
Let's give them the informationon all those things.
Well, the fastest and most directmeans of access would be my
website, paradoxesofgender.com.
Through my website, you willhave access to my information.
(44:47):
My podcasts, my books, myprofessional credentials.
You can reach me through thewebsite if you want to speak
to me or schedule a session.
I'm also on LinkedIn under Dr. DianaSorrentino, phD. We have, I think,
(45:07):
close to 1200 connections at this point.
90% of which are all within thecommunity and the profession.
You can reach out to me by email.
It's paradoxesofgender@earthlink.net,,but all that is on the website.
But the beauty of the website isthe podcast page has all of the
(45:29):
published podcasts and informationon the next ones to come up.
There are hot links, I record my podcastthrough Spreaker, which is part of
iHeartRadio, and then from Spreaker,it's distributed to over 30 other
platforms globally, that I know of.
God knows how manyothers are picking it up.
(45:51):
If you have any questions,visit the website.
Send me an email.
If you'd like to be a guest on my podcast.
because you feel you have somethingyou can contribute, you're a member
to community, a professional,a parent or a family member.
Send me an informationalemail and we'll work it out.
(46:14):
That's wonderful that you'reso accessible to the community
and not just the transgendercommunity, but the whole world.
And 82 countries,
that's remarkable, Dr. Sorrentino.
I started the podcast May of 2023.
Friday we're recording our 59thepisode because it's every two weeks.
(46:35):
So much work to do them,decided not to do weekly.
I never imagined that type of aglobal audience in two years, but
it just underscores the hunger forcredible information around the world.
And with the podcast, peoplecan do that on their own time
(46:58):
without letting other people knowthat that's what they're doing.
You know, if they're afraid to bevisible in asking for information.
So yeah, amazing information.
So thank you very much for joining usagain today, and I know we've got at
least one or two more episodes coming upbecause you've got so much information.
Well, once again, honor andprivilege to be part of your program
(47:20):
and I'm delighted to share andcontribute to the degree that I can.
Well, thank you so much.
And to our audience today, thank you forspending time with us and listening to all
this amazing information, taking it in.
We want you to share itwith other people too.
Subscribe to our podcast, andour YouTube channel, Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
(47:41):
Share it out, like, subscribe.
Let's help build this platform so wecan do what Dr. Sorrentino is doing.
Spreading the word, planting the seeds,and educating people about the truth.
About the people who were borntransgender and their experiences.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy,your co-host is Wendy Cole.
(48:02):
We've just been delighted to havethis conversation today, and we
look forward to seeing you thenext episode, if you subscribe,
you will get notification of that.
So, we will see you next timeand remember, until then,
Stay Curious and Stay Kind.
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
(48:23):
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, be transgender journey.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
"Parents of gender diverse andtransgender prepubescent children
(00:03):
and adolescents did something wrong."
Well, how many times a mom will ask me
What did I do wrong when I was pregnant?
Nothing.
I hear that all the time.
"Someone taught my child to begender diverse or transgender."
It's probably one of the mostridiculous statements anyone could make.
It's all those woke teacherswho are teaching children
(00:26):
to be a different gender.
I love this, I heard thisfrom a teacher I know.
She said,
If I had that much influenceover my students, they'd
all be earning straight A's.
Exactly.
It's ridiculous.
What do you really know aboutpeople who were born transgender?
Have you ever met someonewho's transgender?
Well, if you're like me, you'recurious but hesitant to ask questions.
(00:49):
Well, welcome to Demystifyingthe Transgender Journey.
In our conversations with people who wereborn transgender, their families, friends,
and the professionals who support them,we ask probing questions and discover
insightful and educational answers.
You can also find moreinformation on our website,
thetransgenderjourney.com.
Now let's get right into today's episode.
(01:13):
Thank you for joining us today foranother episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey, brought toyou by Women Who Push the Limits.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy.
I am an author and a speaker, and nowjust such an exciting job being the
podcast host and our co-host is WendyCole, who transitioned at the age of 67.
She is an amazing mentor, working withpeople who are transitioning and also who
(01:38):
are going through life changes because.
We're all going through life changesand she's been through one of the
most significant ones that there is.
Our amazing guest todayis a returning guest.
We can't get enough ofDr. Diana Sorrentino.
The first episode that she did was moreabout her life as an affirmed woman, and
(01:59):
then the second episode she did, we weretalking about the biology, and she's
a PhD in psychology and in sociology.
I'll have her give you her credentials ina minute, but today we wanted to talk to
Dr. Sorrentino about myths of transgender.
So, Dr. Sorrentino, introduce yourself.
Give us some of your credentials.
You've got such an amazing resumeand we know you're the expert.
(02:22):
Well, thank you, Lynn.
And Wendy as well.
As you indicated, I have doctoraldegrees in sociology and psychology.
I'm an affirmed woman.
My life's evolution tookplace in January of 1990,
just a little over 35 years ago.
I've been researching and studyingthe neurobiology and physiology of
(02:46):
gender diversity and transgenderidentities for over 40 years.
And for over 35 years, I've been workingwith the medical and behavioral healthcare
professionals, providing these individualswith gender affirming care, as well
as supporting them, opportunities foreducational programs to expand their
knowledge in this very important area.
(03:08):
And during that 35 yearperiod, I've also worked with
individuals of a variety of ages.
Working into and through theirgender affirmations and most
importantly, their families, theirparents, to help them understand
the root causes of an incongruentidentity, which originate in utero.
I'm recognized as a subjectmatter expert nationally.
(03:32):
My podcasts have subscribers in 82countries, you'll hear more about
that at the end of this program.
So it's my honor and privilege tojoin you, Lynn, and Wendy, to share my
knowledge, my experience, my background,and to, I like to say dispel the myths,
the hype, the hyperbole, the pathologicalassumptions, and the geopolitical
(03:56):
arrogance that we're dealing with today.
And we are dealing with so much of that.
And heavy on the political arrogance.
So we're going to dispel some of thosemyths today, and you are definitely
the expert, the person to do that withyour background, your education, your
personal story, and all of your research.
So,
What I'm going to be working throughis I'll literally be reading excerpts
(04:19):
from chapter two of my third book,Adolescent Gender Affirming Medical
and Behavioral Healthcare, andwe'll start with the first myth.
Gender diversity, having atransgender identity, gender fluid
expression, or non-binary genderidentity is a new phenomena.
It has never happened before.
But the reality is, there'snothing new about gender diversity.
(04:43):
Gender diverse, transgender genderfluid, and non-binary individuals
have existed within cultures andsocieties for thousands of years.
In chapter one of my book, I covergender diversity throughout history.
And if you look around thePacific Rim, they do not conflate
sex and gender the way we do.
Mm-hmm.
But the gender binary, heteronormativeidentities, heterosexualism, is all
(05:11):
originated out of Western Europe.
Underscores a means of dominanceand control over individuals.
As a cisgender woman, I talk to peoplewho are cisgender and have no idea
about what we're talking about here.
And a lot of times I'll hear, oh,
There's so many more peoplecoming out of the woodwork
now who were born transgender.
(05:32):
And they don't understand that this, likeyou're saying, has been something that's
the natural part of the human experience.
One of the things thatI've heard people say is,
Well, with all the, the drugs thatare now in our water system, and in
our food, that's changing the genesor changing the hormones in the bodies
and creating all these peoplewho are whatever term they want
(05:57):
to use, transgender, genderdivergent, that type of thing.
Can you talk about that myth?
Absolutely false.
Right.
An incongruent genderidentity commences in utero.
Okay?
We discussed this at length inour previous episode where you
(06:17):
privileged me to be a guest,
and it's nothing new.
It's just that as more informationbecomes available individuals begin
to recognize and accept the fact,
that their gender identity is notcongruent with the sex assigned at birth.
(06:41):
Mm-hmm.
It's not that we're coming outof the woodwork, it's just that
we're coming out of the closet.
Go back 30, 40 years ago, 50 yearsago, there was very little information
available to the general public.
So like many of the adults that I workwith, and Wendy, you'd fall into this
(07:01):
category, repressed and suppressedtheir feelings, their identity,
to the point of physiological andemotional and psychological harm.
Exactly.
Because they didn't understand,they did not have the support,
they could not access resources.
It's very different today.
(07:22):
People are not willing to be moldedinto an identity which does not
fit who they are as an individual.
You know, all of this nonsense aboutdrugs and chemicals in the water is to
put it bluntly, a bullshit excuse forsomething they do not understand and they
(07:44):
really don't want to be bothered with.
Alright, the second myth:
Gender affirming medicalcare is unsafe and dangerous.
Gender affirming care, previouslyreferred to as transition-related care
has been determined to be medicallynecessary, age appropriate, in addition
to delivery of important lifesavinghealthcare for gender diverse and
(08:07):
transgender individuals of all ages.
Mm-hmm.
And as we discussed in ourprevious program, puberty blockers,
Oh my God, they're unsafe.
Puberty blockers have been used sincethe '60s for precocious puberty.
It's nothing new.
Another good myth:
(08:28):
Anti-transgender legislationis to protect children.
Don't you love that one?
When legislation attempts to regulatewho is permitted to have access to gender
affirming care, or any type of behavioral,medical, healthcare, politicians are
inserting unfounded, partisan ideologiesbased upon myths, hyperbole, pathological
(08:51):
assumptions into private conversations.
Their attempt is to enshrinediscrimination into law.
With a total disregard for theestablished science, medicine,
clinical and scientific evidence,supporting gender affirming care.
And then what happens when healthcareis removed from the person who was
born transgender having access to that?
(09:16):
It increases their depression,emotional distress, gender dysphoria,
the potential for suicidal ideation,not to mention death by suicide.
The trauma inflicted is exponential.
And lifelong.
Yes.
And that's what these politicians, peoplewho don't know the science, or don't want
(09:38):
to admit the science, that's what theyseem to want to inflict on the community.
And I think that's absolutely cruel.
Well, look what they did to the gay andlesbians in the '50s, '60s, and '70s.
Yeah.
So how do we get past that?
Well, questions I've asked politicians is,
What are you afraid of?
(09:59):
Mm-hmm.
What are you afraid of?
They're afraid theirconstituents won't vote for them.
Personal opinion, I thinkthat's what they're afraid of.
Well, they use hot button issues thatthey create to stir up their voting base.
Mm-hmm.
So that they can maintainpower and stay in office.
And so much of whatwe're dealing with today.
(10:22):
is out of of Project 2025, you havethe Heritage Foundation, which is an
ultra right wing group, which is drivingthese philosophies and ideologies
that have no basis in science or fact.
Mm-hmm.
All for control.
All right.
(10:42):
Myth:
Being gender diverse or transgenderis a psychiatric or psychological
pathology and mental illness.
Being gender diverse or transgenderis not psychological pathology or
mental illness, as determined throughscientific research and clinical
studies as reported by the AmericanPsychiatric Association, the American
Psychological Association, the AmericanAcademy of Pediatrics, the American
(11:06):
College of Osteopathic Physicians, theAmerican Academy of Child and Adolescent
Psychiatry, just to name a few, alright?
Many individuals who havetransitioned regret their decision:
Longitudinal studies, andthe Dutch have been tracking
individuals for over 30 years, thedetransition rate is less than 1%.
(11:32):
The benefits brought to the individualwho is allowed to transition with an
interdisciplinary team are palpable.
Wendy's proof of that.
I'm proof of that.
People I work with.
Denying care is tantamount to
child abuse.
(11:54):
Well, and Wendy and I haveheard a physician speak about
the percentage of regret thatpeople have with other surgeries.
That cisgender people have with breastaugmentation, with rhinoplasty, with
tummy tucks, with different types ofsurgeries, that those percentages are
much, much higher than the percent,
what did you say?
(12:15):
1%? Less than 1%?
Less than 1%.
Now, here's one of my favorite ones:
Transgender surgery is performedon prepubescent children.
Prepubescent children are ineligible forany type of gender affirming intervention.
But I like to also ask, where was theiranger and frustration when intersex
(12:42):
children were born, whether they wereXX or XY, and by age two or three
were surgically altered to appear morefemale because as they would say, it's
easier to dig a hole than build a pole.
Exactly.
Nobody said anything about that, did they?
No!
And there were hospitals herein Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
(13:04):
that would do it routinely.
I had a friend who had that done.
Yeah.
And then it's traumatizedthe individual for life.
Mm-hmm.
Puberty blockers, gonadotropin releasinghormone agonists, are harmful and cause
permanent, irreversible side effects.
They've been used since the'60s for precocious puberty.
It's a pause button.
(13:26):
They're reversible.
Before an individual is eligible forpuberty blockers, physical examination,
metabolic profile, complete blood profilecalled CBC, bone mineralization studies,
to make sure a person is healthy enoughfor the application of puberty blockers.
(13:47):
Well, and one thing that Wendy and I havetalked about in a different episode too,
that people don't understandwhat transition means, that
there are stages of transition.
You can transition socially,hormones, medical intervention,
surgeries, but it's a spectrum.
Very much so.
There are individuals whowill transition socially in
(14:08):
adolescence or young adulthood,
be prescribed through theirinterdisciplinary team, cross
sex, gender affirming hormones,whichever direction they want to go.
They're very happy withoutany subsequent surgeries.
Mm-hmm.
Not uncommon.
Mm-hmm.
And for many individuals, they goyears before they can afford to have
(14:32):
the surgeries performed, but theywork through their social affirmation.
Also there's such a fascinationwith people wanting to know what
somebody's genitals are like.
And I don't think it's anybody's business.
Exactly.
I've met individuals also who I've talkedwith about this, who, as transgender
(14:52):
women, choose not to have the surgery.
They just have no need forit, feel no need for it.
And in fact, I've been toldthat's their favorite sex organ.
There are no rules for transition.
Another myth:
Prepubescent, children areadministered cross-sex hormones.
(15:15):
False.
Prepubescence, no hormones, no medicalintervention, no surgical information,
period until the onset of puberty,and at that point, only introduction
would be puberty blockers, gonadotropinreleasing hormone agonists, cross
sex, gender affirming hormones wouldnot be introduced to age 15 or 16.
(15:38):
That's fact.
Mm-hmm.
Here's another good one.
Claiming to be gender diverse ortransgender is a fad, a personal choice,
a phase caused by peer pressure or a formof rebellion against parents and families.
Pure nonsense.
What more can I say?
It's pure nonsense.
It doesn't deserve any more attention.
(16:00):
Yeah.
Pre-pubescent children cannotbe gender incongruent, gender
diverse, or transgender.
It only happens at puberty.
Another absolutely false.
Science, research, and clinical studiesclearly supports the fact that gender
incongruent gender identities inprepubescent children will develop.
During early childhood development,gender incongruence has been proven
(16:22):
to originate during fetal developmentwith prepubescent children between
the age of three and five, identifyingthemself as a different gender.
Fact.
And you get the medical ability, thetechniques and medical research, the
tools, to determine these things now.
Most definitely.
(16:43):
Years ago, maybe not so much,but now it's all available.
Another myth:
All gender diverse and transgenderindividuals want hormone therapy.
Some do, some don't.
It depends on where their goal is.
What is their evolutionarystatus going to be?
(17:04):
All gender diverse and transgenderindividuals want surgical modifications.
Another falsehood.
Many go through their entire lifemaintaining their primary sex
characteristics, their phenotype.
I read an article about a transgendermale who never had the surgery for
(17:26):
the removal of the uterus and ovaries.
How comfortable he would feelwith a full beard sitting in the
waiting room at the gynecologist'soffice, waiting for his appointment.
For the gynecological exam.
Mm-hmm.
And a pap smear.
Because he decided tomaintain those organs.
(17:49):
There are no rules.
There's no rules.
Gender diverse and transgenderindividuals hate their body.
Only if they're forced into the mold thatis incongruent with their gender identity.
Exactly.
The parents of gender diverse andtransgender prepubescent children
(18:11):
and adolescents did something wrong.
Well, how many times a mom will ask me
What did I do wrong when I was pregnant?
Nothing.
I hear that all the time.
Okay.
Someone taught my child to begender diverse or transgender.
It's probably one of the mostridiculous statements anyone could make.
(18:31):
It's all those woke teachers who arekeeping children to be a different gender.
I love this.
I heard this from a teacher.
I know.
She said if I had that muchinfluence over my students, they'd
all be earning straight A's.
Exactly.
The parents that scream that out atschool board meetings, I've seen that.
Oh yeah.
When I lived in Pennsylvaniathat I saw that in Bucks County.
(18:55):
It's ridiculous.
Biological sex and genderare the same thing.
We've covered that.
They are as different as night and day.
Your genitals do notdetermine your gender.
Gender is based on your mentalidentity, it's who you are.
(19:17):
Mm-hmm.
And whether you're cis, trans male, ortrans female, it's not going to change.
You cannot take a cisgender individual,assigned male or female at birth, and
convince them to be a different gender.
It doesn't work.
It's been tried.
It does not work.
And for the assigned female ormale at birth, that is identifying
(19:41):
as an alternative gender,
it's not going to change, and you're notgoing to convince them of it otherwise.
Well, if they believe all that, thenwhy don't the cisgender teachers
in school influence the transgenderchildren and make them cisgender?
That makes much sense of sayingthat someone who's transgender
is going to influence...
(20:01):
ludicrous.
Yeah.
Knowing that someone's genderdiverse or transgender means you
know their sexual orientation.
No, I know many affirmed women who areheterosexual and have relations with men.
And like myself, I identify as lesbian.
My relationship is with women.
(20:23):
And there are those that are bisexual,pansexual, who bat on both teams.
Mm-hmm.
Nothing carved in stone here.
Same with cisgender people.
I knew a psychologist early in mytransition who, when I said a T can be
(20:43):
an L, a G, or a B, or hetero, it took himtwo weeks to wrap his mind around that.
And he is a professional psychologist.
Listen, and this is important.
You can go to Psychology Today and lookup a psychologist, and you'll see them say
(21:06):
transgender care, gender affirming care.
They're checking a box.
There's nothing to assure the personlooking at that profile that the
individual has actually been trained.
Right.
The damage these psychologists aredoing, because they do not know
what they're doing, is incredible.
(21:30):
I receive phone calls frompsychologists with questions,
and I help them because I'm
mm-hmm.
professional.
And.
One was so off the wall, I asked, I said,
why are you working with thecommunity when you don't know
what the hell you're doing?
Exactly.
Because they want cash flow.
(21:51):
Here's my commentary onchapter two of my third book,
"The unrelenting expression of myths,hyperbole, pathological assumptions,
and geopolitical arrogance,
the outright distortion and dismissal ofscientific research and medical facts,
along with the intentional continuationof fabricated, misinformation and
(22:13):
disinformation being disseminatedby the mainstream media politicians,
ultraconservative groups, and religiouszealots, which have no basis in science,
medicine, or psychology, results in adeliberate falsification of the legitimate
neurobiological and physiologicaldevelopment of gender variant, gender
diverse, and transgender identities.
(22:34):
Intentional proliferation of thisfalsification is direct cause for
the increased levels of suicidalideation recorded to be as high as
70%, Non-suicidal self-injury andattempted suicide rates pushing as
high as 40% within gender diverse andtransgender adolescent populations."
They are killing people.
(22:57):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
And they're passing these lawssaying they're protecting people
like the bathroom laws, we'reprotecting women and girls by
passing the ridiculous bathroom law.
Well, let me ask you thisquestion about a bathroom law.
Is there a force field to preventa cisgender male from going in?
No.
And they're the ones who are doingdamage if there's damage being done.
(23:20):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, look at you and Wendyand the way the laws are written,
you would be required in some ofthese states and some of these
buildings to use the men's restroom.
Does that make any sense?
None whatsoever.
And I'll be damned if I would.
No, and you,
I never have.
(23:41):
I think you both would be at riskwalking into a men's bathroom.
Way more so.
Yeah.
So how are they protectingwomen and girls?
It's...
It's all about controlleddominance and influence.
And maintaining the patriarchalsociety of heteronormative dominance.
Yeah.
(24:01):
All originate out of Western Europe.
Absolutely.
What's interesting is when Europeansettlers came to the North American
continent in the 16th, 17th century,they encountered indigenous tribes
that surprised them for two reasons.
One, they spoke English.
Second, that then they had genderfluid and crossgender individuals who
(24:24):
were considered shamans, religiousleaders, and very important individuals
within their tribes and communities.
You look at the 540 federallyrecognized indigenous tribes in
North America, that's still the norm.
Even the 200 unregisteredand unrecognized tribes.
(24:46):
And if you look globally, matter of fact,let me bring up another document here.
Exploring Gender DiversityThroughout History.
I already covered the 16th and17th century European settlers.
In the early 1900's, it was not uncommonfor women to present themselves as men
(25:08):
to gain access to employment, educationalopportunities, and many of them never
considered themselves transgender,
it was just a means toan end for their lives.
So would they beconsidered cross-dressers?
Possibly.
All right.
You have the berdache— these individualsreceived social sanction from their
(25:32):
respective societies to assume agender role, which was opposite to
that which they were assigned at birth.
The hijra— alternative gender rolewithin the Indian subcontinent, as
well as in Pakistan, Bangladesh, andmany other South Asian countries.
The hijra have existed andlived for thousands of years
(25:52):
as accepted members of society.
Third gender individuals who assignedmale at birth, but live their lives
as women or non-binary individuals.
The Bugis of Indonesiarecognize five different genders
within their society, right?
(26:13):
The Navajo nation, I alreadytouched on that with the difference
in the gender fluid roles.
This one I love, thesworn virgins of Albania.
These are women who will swear anallegiance to the village elders and
then become eligible to live as aman, to own property, to take jobs,
(26:38):
and live in society in a male role.
They're also allowed to do so if theirhead of household husband or father
dies, then a woman can assume the roleof the male and be accepted by society.
Well then are they celibate?
And they remain celibate.
(26:59):
The Fa'afafine of Samoa.
Guevedoces of DominicanRepublic, just to name a few.
The Ladyboys of Thailand.
Mm-hmm.
And that's just a sampling of it.
And Judaism also, atleast used to recognize.
Right.
Well, in Judaism they have a ceremonycalled mikvah, where an individual
(27:23):
who's going to be transitioning maleto female goes through a baptism prior
to starting gender affirming hormones.
And the same thing if they'regoing the other way, called mikvah.
And that's practiced today.
It's still practiced.
Okay.
Yes.
Not just throughout the Jewish faithor is there a sect that practices that?
(27:49):
Uh, from my understanding, it'sthroughout the Jewish faith, but I'm
sure there are sects where it's not.
Interesting.
But the point we're driving home hereis this is not a unique phenomenon.
This is not a 20th or21st century phenomenon.
This is not a medical pathology,is not a psychological pathology.
(28:10):
It's been part of history and culturesfor thousands, thousands of years.
It's not changeable.
Yeah, it's not.
So how do we get people to reexaminetheir assumptions about this?
Well, how do you getsomeone to be open-minded?
Okay.
They have to express a willingnessto listen, and learn, and accept
(28:38):
that which may be very uncomfortable.
And I've been very fortunate.
I've done so many programs for churches,for civics groups, for the League of
Women Voters, and the list goes on.
I've never had a problem
with anyone in attendance.
(28:59):
My books sell like hotcakeswhen I bring them to these
events, and I constantly hear,
We had no idea.
We had no idea.
And those events usually lead meto other speaking engagements that
people need to hear this messageand I agree, but they have to be
willing to sit down, open their minda little bit, and listen to the facts.
(29:28):
I'm very fortunate that I canbring tremendous credibility to my
presentation because of my credentials.
Mm-hmm.
Because of my history, and thefact that I'm an affirmed woman.
It's a very powerful, dynamiccombination, and when I stand there
and share my history, the neurobiology,the physiology, the prenatal
(29:53):
development, what we have learned
from neuroimaging, functional magneticresonance imaging, diffusion based
magnetic resonance tomography, and thelist goes on, to show the differences in
the brains where transgender women havebrains that are virtually similar to
(30:15):
cisgender, and transgender men have brainsthat are very similar to cisgender males.
I've devoted entire chapters ofmy books to the research that
has been pursued in these areas.
There's science behind it, and whenindividuals come to these programs,
(30:37):
like the most recent one I did atthe church where 60 people sat in
for 90 minutes, they came out ofcuriosity and a desire to learn.
Probably more out ofcuriosity, and ended up,
Oh my God, I didn'trealize I learned so much.
Mm-hmm.
Well, and that's what Wendy and I aredoing, and I know that's what you're
(30:57):
doing is we figure we're planting seeds.
Some people are more open, they're goingto take the information and run with it.
Some are not going to, youknow, they're going to try
and keep this information out.
But we continue to plant seeds,
we continue to share the information, andinterview amazing people like you, so that
maybe they'll hear things two or threetimes and it will actually get in there
(31:19):
and change something about their attitude.
I don't like what tookplace in the '60s and '70s.
The blowback will take place from withinthe community, just like it did with
the gay and the lesbian community.
You reach a point where enough isenough and people are getting fed up.
There is a US Congressman who hasan office not far from where I live,
(31:44):
and whenever he is in his office,there are several hundred people
outside on the sidewalks protesting.
Mm-hmm.
And this is not just herein Eastern Pennsylvania.
People are getting fed up withwhat's going on in Washington,
and how people are being treated.
(32:06):
And it goes well beyond our community.
But as I always like to ask,
What are you afraid of?
What harm are we doing?
Only wanting to liveour lives as our truth.
That's it.
It doesn't fit their ideology,it doesn't fit their game plan,
(32:28):
and desire for patriarchal,controlled dominance and influence.
That's my paid political announcement.
Oh, do we have to pay you for that?
Oh,
Well, you purchased my book.
That's fine.
It did.
And it's fascinating, butyou know, that's the reality.
(32:50):
And I, I hope that what you'resaying is true, I think that's
always happened is that there's thependulum swinging too far to one side.
And this is where I'll be a littlecritical of our own community,
you know, when I transitioned in1990, I adopted the female binary.
I moved on with my life professionally.
I did not wear it on my sleeve.
(33:12):
I didn't wave the flag.
I didn't put myself in people'sfaces that I'm transgender.
I just got on with my life.
And the majority of individualstransitioning today want to
do exactly the same thing.
But then you have a cohort, whichthey want to wear it on their sleeve.
They want the world to know they'retransgender, they want to wave
(33:35):
the flag, and that's fine, butsociety is not quite ready for that.
Mm-hmm.
And they develop a pushback.
Mm-hmm.
I was recently interviewed andI had, I was in a conversation
with two millennials.
(33:56):
And I was talking about blendinginto everyday life, and that's one
of the things I coach people to do.
Um, they said
That's all very well andgood, but we choose not to.
We want to break theheteronormative society.
That's what we're doing.
Well, they'll be successful probablyanother 20 to 50 years, but, but what
(34:19):
happens when you get in somebody's face?
It doesn't go well.
You get pushback.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
What I found when I firsttransitioned is that
people have no framework whatsoeverfor comprehension of what this is.
So I gave up immediately tryingto help people understand it.
(34:42):
Give them enough informationand a perspective that they can
possibly move toward or change theirperspectives in some way, so that
they begin to be more accepting of it.
That's all I hope for.
I feel the community should be doingbetter at, it's not often, but I
(35:04):
once in a while, be misgendered.
I ignored it, I let it fly by.
Mm-hmm.
Because if you respond to it, all youdo is draw unnecessary, unwarranted,
and dangerous interest in yourself.
When you do something like that.
(35:24):
Like I said, it's not often I'mmisgendered, but it happens.
Sir oh— oh, sorry, ma'am.
I got a decent sized rack.
So you know, once theymoved on it was like,
Oh, I'm sorry.
You ignore it.
Don't call unnecessaryattention to yourself.
Exactly.
And it could happen withcisgender people too.
(35:45):
Absolutely.
You know, people who look androgynous.
I remember when I was doing somecustomer service training in casinos
and the trainer who was training us wastalking to us about using people's names
not ma'am and sir. And the reason hesaid is because you might be wrong.
Right?
(36:05):
Exactly.
And that had nothing todo with the transgender.
It was just about people'sphysical appearance.
And if you make a mistake andyou're corrected, you apologize,
try not to do it again.
But
why bring that much attention to yourself?
(36:26):
Ignore it.
I mean, 35 plus years, I've had no issues.
Zero.
I mean, I'm on a corporateengagement with a client down in
Bensalem, Pennsylvania right now.
I was interviewed for the job,hired, engaged for the position.
(36:47):
I'm interacting with their entire staff,
no issues.
Just the way I share with theseindividuals in our community is,
Present yourself as you want tobe presented, professionally.
Treat people with respect,in the professional world, do
(37:09):
your job, do what's expected,
after a while, nobody's gonna give a damn.
Mm-hmm.
So do you think some of these peoplewho are pushing this, you know, outside
the heteronormative, are they helpingto move things in that direction?
Or do you think they'resetting things back overall?
Right now, I think they'redoing more harm than good.
(37:30):
Right now.
Okay.
It's not helpful.
Okay.
You know, society at large needs time
to digest what's taking place, come toa realization of the fact that this is
real, it is normal, it's not a pathology.
(37:54):
But whenever anyone gets insomebody else's face, they
automatically go in defensive mode.
And especially today in the social andpolitical arenas, once you get into their
face, that just reinforces everythingthey're hearing from the right wing media.
(38:15):
Yeah.
Some people equate getting inyour face with pride parades or,
you know, Transgender Day of...
Remembrance.
Yeah.
Those types of things.
I have no problem withTransgender Day of Remembrance.
Right.
I have no problem with the Pride parade.
(38:37):
Because pride is more than justgender diversity or transgender.
I have no issues with those.
A lot of my gay friends used to evensay they don't need a Pride parade,
they're proud every day.
Right.
Today I do see tremendous valuein the pride parades, and they're
going on around the world, andtheir attendance is phenomenal.
(39:00):
We're talking hundreds of thousandsof people, you know, whether it's the
politicians, or the general population,
you know, this is not a closeted issue.
This is not something that is uniqueor abnormal, it's part of society.
(39:23):
When I was considering transitioningin the early '70s, there
was no question, I'm binary.
And I was going to livemy life as a woman.
That was it.
And
That's what I did.
Uh,
in my transition in 1990, I adoptedthe female binary and I got on with
(39:44):
my life, my profession, and my work.
Right?
That was the norm backin the last century.
When we started moving into the seconddecade of this century, things changed
a bit medically, medical supportwas available, all the therapeutic
(40:04):
support was available, everything inthat world became more well known.
And people within our community saw that,
That encouraged a lot more peopleto come out and start going
forward with their transition.
And then from my observations, therewas the 2020 pandemic, and that's
(40:29):
when a lot of people had private time.
And they could think andreally start to work on, well,
What's going on with me andmy life during this pandemic?
And they could actually stillgo to work on Zoom male from
here up, and enjoy their day.
(40:49):
Most definitely.
And after the pandemic, therewas a wave of people coming out,
and definitely society was notready for that, in my opinion.
I'm going to bring up Harry Benjamin,the book, Wondrous Transformations.
I strongly recommend you read it.
It's fascinating how he ended upalmost by default, becoming the
(41:18):
father of transgender medicine.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr. Hardigan, who's gonna be my guest onFriday for recording a podcast session,
one of her clients called her and asked,
Do you know who Harry Benjamin is?
And she says,
Of course I do.
(41:38):
She goes,
Good.
You're the expert.
You're the one I wanna see.
Because this person knew that if thetherapist knew who Harry Benjamin
was, the chances were excellent.
They knew what they were talking about.
Right.
Yeah.
The episode on Friday, we're gonna betalking about: What is gender affirming
care, how to choose the right therapist.
I was at a social networking event, I meta family physician, and gave him my card.
(42:05):
He goes,
Oh, I provide gender affirming care.
Okay.
Are you a member of WPATH?
He goes, what's WPATH?
That's all you needed to know.
Right?
I looked him square in the eye, using avery colorful metaphor, which I will not
use here, told him that he didn't knowwhat the bleep he was doing and he was
(42:29):
possibly gonna do more harm than good.
Was the last I heard of him.
I asked my therapist fairly earlyon in my relationship with her,
I was not at all concerned withseeing a statement that you had
certification in gender affirmingcare, you had a certificate for that.
(42:50):
And what she informed me was it's like,
Yeah, I could have that certificate,but it doesn't mean anything.
I go and sit in the classroom forsome X number of hours, pay anywhere
between three and $6,000 for theprivilege of doing that, and I get
a certificate, but that doesn't doanything for my overall knowledge of it.
(43:11):
That's what she told me.
Would you agree with that or?
Oh, totally.
Okay.
Look at my years of research and study.
I know.
I'm still learning
40 years.
But there are so many people, even inour community that I have dealt with,
talked with, or know, oh, I'll onlysee someone with that certificate.
(43:35):
A piece of paper.
Exactly.
Even my doctoral degrees,it's sheep skin on the wall.
It's your years of experienceand your research that does it.
Exactly.
And your lived experience.
Mm-hmm.
Education, whether it's undergraduate,graduate, doctoral, or continuing
ed provides you a foundationupon which to build and learn.
(44:00):
Right.
Okay.
Well, and thank you for helpingus learn today about myths around
gender, and also the fascinatinginformation about the history of
gender expression around the globe.
It is absolutely fascinating,to put it mildly.
It is and and you'vedelved into it extensively.
(44:23):
So let's share with our audiencetoday how they can reach you,
and your books, and your podcast.
Let's give them the informationon all those things.
Well, the fastest and most directmeans of access would be my
website, paradoxesofgender.com.
Through my website, you willhave access to my information.
(44:47):
My podcasts, my books, myprofessional credentials.
You can reach me through thewebsite if you want to speak
to me or schedule a session.
I'm also on LinkedIn under Dr. DianaSorrentino, phD. We have, I think,
(45:07):
close to 1200 connections at this point.
90% of which are all within thecommunity and the profession.
You can reach out to me by email.
It's paradoxesofgender@earthlink.net,,but all that is on the website.
But the beauty of the website isthe podcast page has all of the
(45:29):
published podcasts and informationon the next ones to come up.
There are hot links, I record my podcastthrough Spreaker, which is part of
iHeartRadio, and then from Spreaker,it's distributed to over 30 other
platforms globally, that I know of.
God knows how manyothers are picking it up.
(45:51):
If you have any questions,visit the website.
Send me an email.
If you'd like to be a guest on my podcast.
because you feel you have somethingyou can contribute, you're a member
to community, a professional,a parent or a family member.
Send me an informationalemail and we'll work it out.
(46:14):
That's wonderful that you'reso accessible to the community
and not just the transgendercommunity, but the whole world.
And 82 countries,
that's remarkable, Dr. Sorrentino.
I started the podcast May of 2023.
Friday we're recording our 59thepisode because it's every two weeks.
(46:35):
So much work to do them,decided not to do weekly.
I never imagined that type of aglobal audience in two years, but
it just underscores the hunger forcredible information around the world.
And with the podcast, peoplecan do that on their own time
(46:58):
without letting other people knowthat that's what they're doing.
You know, if they're afraid to bevisible in asking for information.
So yeah, amazing information.
So thank you very much for joining usagain today, and I know we've got at
least one or two more episodes coming upbecause you've got so much information.
Well, once again, honor andprivilege to be part of your program
(47:20):
and I'm delighted to share andcontribute to the degree that I can.
Well, thank you so much.
And to our audience today, thank you forspending time with us and listening to all
this amazing information, taking it in.
We want you to share itwith other people too.
Subscribe to our podcast, andour YouTube channel, Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
(47:41):
Share it out, like, subscribe.
Let's help build this platform so wecan do what Dr. Sorrentino is doing.
Spreading the word, planting the seeds,and educating people about the truth.
About the people who were borntransgender and their experiences.
I'm your host, Lynn Murphy,your co-host is Wendy Cole.
(48:02):
We've just been delighted to havethis conversation today, and we
look forward to seeing you thenext episode, if you subscribe,
you will get notification of that.
So, we will see you next timeand remember, until then,
Stay Curious and Stay Kind.
Thank you for joining us todayon this episode of Demystifying
the Transgender Journey.
(48:23):
Remember to subscribe so youdon't miss a single episode
of our fascinating interviews.
You can also find more information onour website, be transgender journey.com.
So until next time, staycurious and stay kind.
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